"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002293997491dfb648c3b73368d585845fca\u0022\u003ETuesday, 20 October 2009\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b594bf11e7f24e50b2f5d678cd31e8da\u0022\u003ETuesday, 20 October 2009\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227cb19679e8074c32986c331229e1ec76\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b84929179c1f4d5a96384eb5e930bb55\u0022\u003EScotland\u2014Presiding Officer, Scottish Parliament\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00223dc34bf04cba458f8e74c7aea8c834da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223dc34bf04cba458f8e74c7aea8c834da\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have much pleasure in informing the House that a delegation from the Scottish Parliament, led by Presiding Officer Alex Fergusson, is within the precincts of this Chamber. I am sure members would wish that he be welcomed and accorded a seat on the left of the Chair, and that the delegation in the Speaker\u2019s Gallery be welcomed also.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EMr Alex Fergusson, accompanied by the Deputy Speaker, entered the Chamber and took a seat on the left of the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222ff95165f9264d92a39f02aa0b755f56\u0022\u003EObituaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002257942c6ebcc94a8e93b0a7058eabbeab\u0022\u003EMate Huatahi Kaiwai\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022 data-id=\u00226b8e6cf896874c44ad0b94e08d0eec6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b8e6cf896874c44ad0b94e08d0eec6d\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to move a motion without notice or debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e259a51d264451db350d11cada3b865\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to move a motion without notice or debate. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f14e456cb94485a8eba2a22c3bc0c1f\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: E te Kaiwhakahaere o te Whare nei, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Ka whakatau au, Kia whakapuakina e te Whare t\u014Dna tino aroha m\u014D t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 tino kuia m\u014Drehu o Te Tai R\u0101whiti Ng\u0101ti Porou kua hinga atu, a Mate Huatahi Kaiwai, iwa tekau m\u0101 wh\u0101 \u014Dna tau; te wahine nei i kaha ki te manaaki i te rangatahi me te tautoko i t\u014D t\u0101tou reo M\u0101ori; he kai\u0101rahi a ia o Te Taura Whiri me ng\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B katoa e tautoko ana i te ora o te reo M\u0101ori me t\u014Dna kura o Hukarere; ka p\u0101 p\u014Duri te motu nei me ng\u0101 M\u0101ori m\u014D te ngaro o t\u0113nei wahine, te tam\u0101hine o te H\u014Dnore T\u0101 Apirana Ng\u0101ta.    \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Speaker. I move, That the House express its deep sadness in respect to a great surviving old lady of Ng\u0101ti Porou East Coast who has passed away, Mate Huatahi Kaiwai, who was 94 years old; this woman was a strong supporter of youth and of our M\u0101ori language; she was patron of her school, Hukarere, and a figurehead of the M\u0101ori Language Commission and of all other organisations that supported the revival of the M\u0101ori language; the nation and M\u0101oridom grieve for the loss of this woman, the daughter of Sir Apirana Ng\u0101ta.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EIt is with regret that I inform the House of the passing of one of the great M\u0101ori women leaders in this country. Mate Huatahi Kaiwai, who was 94 years old, has passed on. This woman was the strongest proponent for supporting youth, and an unstinting supporter of the M\u0101ori language. She was the patron of Hukarere College, of Te Taura Whiri i te Reo M\u0101ori, and of other M\u0101ori organisations that developed te reo M\u0101ori. We grieve for this great wahine, the daughter of the late Hon Sir Apirana Ngata. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223bd9fa77b88349d6a1e6cd2b018a29f6\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f7b5edf778524a7499b0e9cb95b13b01\u0022\u003EPetitioners\u2014Access to Public Gallery\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u00220c605a5aaec44fa4aa8c43b166b99bce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c605a5aaec44fa4aa8c43b166b99bce\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Earlier today there were a number of people outside Parliament who were in support of the petitions regarding adult and community education, and who sought access to the public gallery in order to be here to hear their petitions presented to the House. They were denied access. They are petitioners, and I seek your ruling on this matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0595801a5ed4d34adcbda9679ef7393\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0595801a5ed4d34adcbda9679ef7393\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I must say it is a matter that I am totally unaware of, and therefore I cannot possibly comment on it. Normally I am not familiar with issues around access to the public gallery on any given day. I can certainly investigate whether anything untoward took place, and I will do that for the honourable member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228e06403b35a34dd7863842527d8dc028\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222287f69c38874535bcc30ba1a3a4ed20\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f9bb11e22d1942f3a53aa1bd5e7b2e90\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation\u2014Levies\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a057595eb5e9479884ad1328057c36d3\u0022\u003E1. Hon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Will he accept Labour\u2019s offer to work together to reduce ACC levies for hard-working New Zealanders facing increasing costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00227275cfc95ccb4e5fa8c0e30a87b27ecf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227275cfc95ccb4e5fa8c0e30a87b27ecf\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E As the member knows, the Government has been working with its support partners to secure the changes necessary to rescue the accident compensation scheme. This afternoon, I welcomed the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s intentions to support the bill going to the select committee. The National Government will continue to work with its other support party, the ACT Party, as the Government looks to reform the scheme. I can say that the Government is committed to preserving a 24/7 no-fault scheme, unlike the previous Government, which seemed intent on destroying the scheme by failing to disclose massive shortfalls in its funding. What a disgrace it was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe70648785a44ae6823097a61c3c3e75\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government adopt Labour\u2019s member\u2019s bill to extend out fully funding accident compensation until at least 2019, a measure that would reduce the costs faced by hard-working Kiwi families, and a bill that could be passed right now; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227db5d855300e43678fb4b7830283daee\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s intention is to extend fully funding the scheme until 2019, with or without the support of the Labour Party. As the member knows, that is only a small part of the answer. Interestingly enough, in the letter that was written by the Leader of the Opposition to me he finally acknowledged that there were very serious problems facing the accident compensation scheme, and that \u201Can honest conversation is needed about the trade-offs between the scope of the cover and levy costs\u201D. In other words, it has finally dawned on the Opposition that there is a serious problem with accident compensation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1caa3fb08f844478ace190cd6501435\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister think it is fair that motorcycle riders are facing levy increases of up to 300 percent; if not, will he work with Labour to ensure that that massive increase in costs faced by bikers will be substantially reduced?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1020255371c4662b354cf11ef99c8f1\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I guess the first thing I would say is that Mr Goff should rest assured that people do not have to pay that big increase if they only borrow a motorbike, and do not actually own it. The second point I might add is that the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) is proposing what it is fair enough to say is quite a significant increase for owners of larger motorbikes, with a proposed levy increasing by about $500, to $781. As I said yesterday at my press conference, it is worth remembering that on the advice we have had from ACC, a full cost recovery levy for motorcycle-only accidents is $2,215 and if we take into consideration accidents where a car is involved, the levy should increase to $3,770. Yes, it is a big increase, but other New Zealanders should know they are already substantially cross-subsidising motorbike riders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2b7ad94f00c41dcaf27ba9bf4419c9a\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: At what point along the path of accident victims paying an excess on claims of up to $100 and/or reducing compensation for workers from 80 percent to 60 percent of pre-accident income will the contract made between the Government and the people of New Zealand in 1974 be breached, and the whole basis of the Woodhouse no-fault accident compensation scheme have to be abandoned and the costly legal battles to win compensation for work injuries begin all over again with the reinstatement of the right to sue, with lawyers as the main beneficiaries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249e0ce51d4094e47b83fd9b6fd6df024\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member can rest assured that this Government has no intention of abandoning the Woodhouse principles and the 24/7 no-fault scheme; nor do we have any intent of restoring a scheme whereby New Zealanders could sue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e9ffb356a484dbb86bdb19c9a972279\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister received any apology or explanation from the previous Government for its decisions in August and in October last year to extend accident compensation for seasonal workers, for victims of suicide, for part-time workers, and for superannuitants, despite the scheme in the year to June 2008 disclosing a loss of $2.4 billion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212954fa6ff4d497989337862c023d536\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the Prime Minister, I must remind him that he is not responsible for the previous Government\u2019s policies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226993d97405f34a9ba711c4daba1e2e0f\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have not, but I believe the public is owed an explanation after the scheme lost $2.4 billion in the year to June 2008. It was quite reckless of Labour to have made further extensions to the scheme with no funding. It was inevitable that that would only make the problems worse, but I guess June 2008 is before October 2008 and we all know what happened in October 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7ef2971b0484fbc8a4b5bc7dcca0b28\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister accept that ACT\u2019s privatisation proposals would substantially increase the costs imposed on accident compensation users, and does he accept the employers\u2019 belief that this form of privatisation would be unwelcome and would add to their costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fbf1b66702c44b1b128b4cc7160526e\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225141a4af835143d5b2d991b9a94022e8\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, has he seen the statement put out by the Employers and Manufacturers Association today, which says that it is wary about the reintroduction of an open competitive market, and that last time National tried to impose that, it would have resulted in large premium increases?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234cd7bd7044c42c087b42136da297e9e\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The advice I have received about the former National Government\u2019s changes to accident compensation, where competition was introduced, was that it was very successful. It was the blind ideology of the incoming Labour Government that robbed New Zealanders of cheaper premiums.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef0982b72a35440aba6779ab7ad4e99f\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table a press release by the Employers and Manufacturers Association at 12.41 p.m. today, which states that it is wary about the introduction, and the lower costs were trying to capture the market\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f8e59a0166b481e9eff05c846885ffe\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225409d8693622475aa626fe42686b2662\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree with Merrill Lynch that the privatisation of the work account in New Zealand would have given big Australian insurance companies $2.1 billion a year in premiums and income, that that would have resulted in several hundred million dollars in net profit, and that there would be costs loaded on to ordinary Kiwis and services reduced as a result?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4aef0a3cb594efcbdc7e82af28a89aa\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, and I guess that is why Merrill Lynch went bankrupt. It was a much better firm when I was there, obviously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022090ed2c0e7ee4158be9f078caa8594a6\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table a document from Merrill Lynch entitled \u201CPotential Privatisation of the New Zealand Casualty Insurance Market\u201D\u2014the casualties, of course, would be Kiwis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b5cca81139b49ee82d8b8f16cf85ca3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4b8323d30f64bdd97ef1ea320890f1d\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am concerned that what the Prime Minister said about a letter to me may have misled the House. I therefore seek the leave of the House to table the letter that I actually wrote to him, and reserve my rights about a breach of privilege action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f19f3e3273094a17a19791adbbcfcdd9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member should not use a point of order in that way. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection to that? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225ff026f43a814256abc1df3dc00e130d\u0022\u003EEmissions Trading Scheme\u2014Allocations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e241a6192a94e08b266e4bfd03fdd06\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Climate Change Issues: Is it a coincidence that under the proposed changes to the emissions trading scheme, forestry and fishing, which have significant M\u0101ori ownership, are being offered a fixed amount of free allocations for a limited time, while other industries are being offered an uncapped amount that will last for decades?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002296496356226a413583402f5b69dff93c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296496356226a413583402f5b69dff93c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for Climate Change Issues):\u003C/span\u003E These features of the modified emissions trading scheme are also true of the existing scheme that was supported by the previous Government and the Green Party, and they actually relate to the realities of individual sectors. Fishing, which is important to M\u0101ori, is treated more generously under the changed emissions trading scheme, with a half obligation until 2013 and a 90 percent allocation, rather than 50 percent. The allocation for pre-1990 forestry is to compensate for the loss of land-use flexibility. It is nonsense for the member to suggest that that be increased proportionately like the allocation for the agricultural industry is to be, as, by definition, there cannot be more pre-1990 forests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ccb27752c174850a1b2218c713aa07d\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not true that such a disparity in allocations between predominantly M\u0101ori-interested businesses and others will hold back M\u0101ori economic development, while providing a blank cheque to others, particularly foreign-owned firms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268e7bf88d7a742c19e475f0e5cdca5a1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The truth is quite the opposite of that, and I can give the member an example. One of the issues the M\u0101ori Party raised with me was where the quota should be allocated in terms of the fishing allocations. The M\u0101ori Party made a strong representation that it should go to quota holders rather than fishing vessel operators, for the very reason that a number of the fishing vessel operators are foreign-owned. I also point out that M\u0101ori are one of the biggest operators in forestry. One of the biggest opportunities around the emissions trading scheme is with the post-1989 forests, so there are very significant opportunities for M\u0101ori to earn carbon credits from the growth of forestry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f0e91f2b59341c1b466defa2887488c\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that he has agreed to support an amendment from the M\u0101ori Party to insert a Treaty of Waitangi clause into the emissions trading scheme legislation after submissions on the bill have been heard by the Finance and Expenditure Committee, and, if it is, will that clause resemble the one proposed by the M\u0101ori Party during the emissions trading scheme debate last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae770c8495cf4b22812aafa68cee0ce3\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: In the agreement between the Government and the M\u0101ori Party it is the intention to support a Treaty of Waitangi clause for the legislation, to ensure that M\u0101ori interests are recognised on an ongoing basis as New Zealand develops its long-term policy around climate change. I am working constructively with the M\u0101ori Party on those amendments and getting advice from officials to ensure that the clause works effectively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283375b5f1f7a41128813b38182c2e380\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Supplementary Order Paper that was tabled by the M\u0101ori Party in the debate on the emissions trading scheme legislation last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9d6d9bf077f4901b249405133298e82\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is obviously on the record of the House already. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c321c8fd42ad4542b4b680f2937203a3\u0022\u003EHekia Parata\u003C/span\u003E: I runga i te tangi o te ng\u0101kau m\u014D te tipuna k\u014Dk\u0101 kua haere, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou te Whare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E[Greetings to us, the House, despite the grief within for the grand ancestress who has passed away.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EHas the Minister read criticism of the Government\u2019s policy of aligning the New Zealand emissions trading scheme more closely with Australia\u2019s, on the basis that Australia\u2019s is unlikely to progress? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5a26714be234d5fb2ac192a44dfe877\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there has been fervent criticism of Government policy along those lines from the Opposition. I note that in recent days the Liberal and National Opposition parties of the Australian Parliament have proposed support for the Australian emissions trading scheme in the Senate, subject to a number of amendments. I also note that despite all the angst over progressing our amendments through the House by December in time for the Copenhagen conference, the Australian Government is intending to do the same, but is yet to introduce those amendments to its Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298dbd43b1dea47848bded44d21385a12\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a statement by the Australian Minister for Climate Change and Water, Senator the Hon Penny Wong, containing a summary of the changes put forward by the Liberal Opposition, and the critique by the Labor Government of those changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022952e682636904ed2ae8b48da153531e7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8396406623d42848f41dbb45caa11b7\u0022\u003EJohn Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the Federation of M\u0101ori Authorities chief executive officer, Mr Rino Tirik\u0101tene, who told the Finance and Expenditure Committee last Thursday that the Government\u2019s emissions trading scheme will result in the biggest destruction of M\u0101ori wealth since the land confiscations; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f178a910dad54c95bbf62624c3045a2d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not. The truth is that the emissions trading scheme that was put in place by the previous Government imposes liabilities on all forest owners, M\u0101ori or otherwise, in respect of deforestation. That is consistent with the requirements of the Kyoto Protocol. The Government\u2019s view is that there is a need to change those requirements. In the agreement that the Government has made with the M\u0101ori Party, we intend to push very strongly for changes in the Kyoto rules to get greater land-use flexibility, which is the principal concern of the Federation of M\u0101ori Authorities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d134b6cdc37443e8d0d55f26e976a43\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister explain to the M\u0101ori Party, when he was negotiating support for this bill, that the Canadian-owned Methanex would get $85 million in subsidies each year for well over a decade, whereas iwi fishers and foresters would get subsidies for only 3 years? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e860195d5dc4cb0abe9bb30a42b002c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I will point something out to the member about the language of subsidies. What is actually occurring with an allocation is not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223469758f9ee74902a16ad9d354b8aa35\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Is that a problem? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022411fde52ca694875b4b5bdeb54a4e99c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the difficulty is that under the Kyoto Protocol, New Zealand gets an allocation of units. It would be true to say there was a subsidy if taxpayers were having to fund the purchase of units that the Government would then pass on. If that was the case, the member\u2019s assertion would also be exactly true of the emissions trading scheme that she and her party voted for, because it too provided a free allocation for companies like Methanex. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291eef097328b4c47ac624e554b7ade86\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister has completely failed to answer the question. The question did not ask for a description of subsidies; it was a question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff12659a85694403a82e979d5dc1803e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will sit down. I heard the member dispute whether the Minister answered the question. The Minister actually disagreed totally with the assertion in the member\u2019s question. By doing that he answered the question, because he pointed that one of the statements the member included in her question was, in his view, not correct. That answers the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200aa830b6380418093c785fb0ac9cd60\u0022\u003EJohn Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with Mr Eru George, who is a director of Te Arawa Group Holdings, which owns central North Island forests, and who told the Finance and Expenditure Committee last Thursday that the new Government\u2019s emissions trading scheme would result in additional losses for Te Arawa of over $30 million greater than those under Labour\u2019s scheme, bringing the total losses for Te Arawa to a figure in excess of $600 million; if not, why not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fdea0cc03614722a56e90afc229d730\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have not had a chance to study its submission to the select committee, but I would be surprised by that. The reason is that in terms of the forestry provisions, which are where the greatest change in land value arises from the emissions trading scheme, the amendments that the Government is making are very, very small. I also point out to the member that the alternative position to take is that there be no control on the deforestation of pre-1990 forests. If that is his party\u2019s position, he needs to acknowledge that that would incur a very large cost to the taxpayer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf09594e3bc948e9a437eba054ed63e5\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister proposing to hold hui around the country to discuss directly with M\u0101ori the proposed changes to the emissions trading scheme and whether they are fair for those communities and industries, as the previous Government did with the last emissions trading scheme, or has all proper consultation been cut because of his rushed process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1b353cc9f6241acb95ca2b17e32ab22\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The tight timetable is a consequence of the existing emissions trading scheme coming into effect on 1 January, which would impose very high costs on New Zealanders, with a 10 percent increase in power bills, and would put at risk as well the jobs of a large number of New Zealanders in the industries that would be affected. I also believe that it would be highly desirable for New Zealand to have our emissions trading legislation settled by the time of the Copenhagen conference, as is the case with Australia. I am surprised that the Green Party is so opposed to what I think is an important position in terms of New Zealand\u2019s reputation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e88bd6b9d52415882f1dd9c7d45d019\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister have sufficient support in the House to pass this deeply flawed bill through all its stages, despite the fact of its blatant discrimination against M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296779cebe2044ac2be0ebdd41302669e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I find the assertion made by the member very difficult, because the bill is more generous to M\u0101ori than the bill that she voted for. So for her to claim\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236a6f405d8d64288a27684ced6e2d927\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a806dbc66a484f81a8fae63d292fdff7\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there is more generous compensation for the fishing industry and it is better in terms of the impacts on agriculture, which is why the iwi leadership group has lobbied the Government and the M\u0101ori Party very hard for their support for it. I say to the member Metiria Turei that the assertion she makes is grossly incorrect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002239be3d50bcaa40019dd3fc96d4391391\u0022\u003ECrown Accounts\u2014Year Ended 30 June 2009\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d12c1e82c5e42e6a63778f94023aad4\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What did publication of the Crown\u2019s accounts for the year to 30 June 2009 reveal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab5794c486cd4f889d4115f999d9a937\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab5794c486cd4f889d4115f999d9a937\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Crown accounts confirm that the Government\u2019s financial position has deteriorated significantly in the past year. In the year ended 30 June 2009, there will be an operating deficit of $10.5 billion, and cash deficits over the next 4 years will average between $10 billion and $12 billion. We will have to borrow an average of $250 million per week every week for the next 4 years to deal with these cash deficits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022830903f9f063464db1ffb94d796b0a6b\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What impact will this sharp increase in debt have?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc82089c904c4326b03064923b5d4f9e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The sharp increase in debt is driven by the big increases in expenditure under the previous Government, and by a decrease in revenue because of the recession. The Government\u2019s finance costs will more than double. Currently, about $2.5 billion a year is spent on servicing debt. Over the next 4 years that sum will rise to $5 billion\u2014just to service the debt. That $2.5 billion represents more than what the Government currently spends on the police and corrections services in total.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276fb26dfe6064cd3a9ca9de7977e03fd\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Minister say to the hard-working New Zealanders who are seeing prices for gas, electricity, and food increase while their weekly wage has not moved at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022596a56bdcfa842ee982924c841255816\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Those hard-working New Zealanders and a number of New Zealanders who have lost their jobs are paying the price for two things: one is the global recession and the other is 10 years of mismanagement under the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6b3dcf155334439886b1be704305c93\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of the Minister\u2019s primary answer, can he confirm that at the start of the financial year in question\u2014June 2008\u2014New Zealand had zero net debt, half the gross debt it had in 1999, the world\u2019s lowest unemployment rate, and 8 years of unstinting economic growth; and, in the words of Winston Churchill, will he stop telling lies about us before we\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228000f6db60564bc0a3423073ab1a7460\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member must withdraw that last part, because the implication was very clear that he was accusing the Minister of telling lies. He knows that he cannot do that. I ask him to withdraw that last part of the question from the record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa84af6c29854c75a86f6aa119b001ea\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022368e31b4c75948609e634c9e86479df7\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: At 30 June 2008 the New Zealand economy was in recession\u2014before the rest of the globe. Government spending was growing at more than twice the rate of the economy, and, despite Labour\u2019s protestations, we still had $35 billion worth of debt. Through those 10 years, the previous Government did not pay off any debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022791f222cf62c44788bfa9495dc18bac1\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What progress was made in paying down Government debt over the past 10 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207cfb890b39f43a0bd00e458f9474d1b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It is pretty important that people understand what actually happened in the last 10 years. Gross sovereign debt at 31 December 2008 was $40 billion, which was $3 billion higher than when Labour took over in 1999. Along the way, of course, we had accumulated some fantastic assets, like KiwiRail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b67f86a03301422aab6622bd41b56cdd\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Apart from the poor shape of the Crown\u2019s finances, what other economic challenges did the Government inherit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226aebc6c1a7c54751851437d7263d50bd\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There was, of course, a recession, which began in New Zealand at the beginning of 2008, well before it began in the rest of the world; an unexpected extra liability of $1 billion to be paid by the Government into the accident compensation earners account; an export sector that had been in recession for 5 years; and Government spending that was out of control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022200d4c8f9f6b46fbb2d0f899f7d6352d\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: If things are so bad, having been disastrously handled by the previous Government, why did the Minister of Finance say on Radio New Zealand National that the reason New Zealand had come through the recession better than most countries was the good state of the Government accounts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b720678218c34fbbacbb291ad89a931f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The last 10 years were a tale of lost opportunity. Despite the fact that the previous Government had record surpluses, it did not pay off any debt. That is why this Government is spending $2.5 billion to service $35 billion worth of debt that the previous Government left behind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fbff62514f504bb2b21ffec31c82dcf6\u0022\u003EAdult and Community Education\u2014Response to Petitioners\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022429a1e9c0e5d419f80b29d52af41bc88\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Tertiary Education: What does she say to the over 53,000 people who signed petitions seeking reinstatement of funding to night classes delivered through high schools and community groups about their future lack of access to second-chance education, including literacy and numeracy skills, resulting from her funding cuts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022622bf79ab7ef4fbdbcd6f388857fc6d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022622bf79ab7ef4fbdbcd6f388857fc6d9\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister for Tertiary Education):\u003C/span\u003E Fifty-three thousand? That is about twice the number of people who know who Phil Goff is. The Government remains committed to adult and community education. That is why in these tough times we are investing $124 million in adult and community education over the next 4 years. But we have made the decision to prioritise some funding towards 2,000 places under the Youth Guarantee for the young people of New Zealand, who are the most affected by an economic recession.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f72aa2d50d44b3d9211e37b4dd3d354\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Does she now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b206dcac2cef4a62933810c982fbe476\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the member. The House is being quite noisy. I accept there are issues that members feel strongly about, but when I call a member to ask a question, I ask that the interjections cease on both sides, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ffab7beb6a94d4aa08fc304f236f90c\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You equally call on Ministers to answer questions, but you do not seem to apply quite the same rigour to the way in which the Opposition members barrack during Ministers\u2019 answers. It does not really bother us, because we watch the TV and we know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209988dc24ad0446f9a96870b030615ff\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Leader of the House will resume his seat. I think it does not take a lot of thought to realise that if an answer is provocative the Minister cannot expect the Speaker to prevent the other side of the House from responding. However, I accept that I have allowed a bit more noise than I usually do, and I apologise if that has caused a problem. I will try to tighten up on it a bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228293961fb5e7483c9e11465750cef2f5\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Does she now agree that if she cannot see the significance of 53,000 New Zealanders signing these petitions, and if she does not listen to their concerns and reverse the decision to cut funding to adult and community education courses, she will be failing communities all around New Zealand and failing as the Minister for Tertiary Education; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ca89b7c26014ce58bfe24b88c164e1c\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member asking the question has asked those questions in the House for months now, and the answer is the same. Providing second-chance opportunities for people in the community is a priority for this Government, which is why we are providing $124 million to adult and community education. But second-chance learning also occurs at universities, polytechs, w\u0101nanga, and private training enterprises. They all got an increase in funding in the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287c9c0f571114540b4c1e5860558a745\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: What were the drivers behind the decision to reprioritise adult and community education funding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d059e38aea334f0695829ffe057e4d31\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: One of the primary drivers was the $521 million of unfunded commitments that the member asking the primary question, as Associate Minister for Tertiary Education in the previous Government, left for the incoming Government to find. We had to find half a billion dollars worth of unfunded commitments out of the tertiary budget before we started.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220797d87f6a0042cf992f7f55e1ed5fbd\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware that there will be no adult and community education classes north of the Auckland Harbour Bridge in 2010; and what representations have her colleagues made to her about this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220728167956e84bbb923c499b0423eefe\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: A number of people have raised a number of issues around the changes that we are making to adult and community education. In fact, I met with representatives of Wellington High School, including the Spanish teacher, who was concerned that his classes, taken by people who had since written to him from Chile and Bolivia saying how helpful the classes were, would not be able to continue. The taxpayers cannot continue to support the funding of such hobby courses. Literacy and numeracy are the focus for the $124 million of adult and community education funding that this Government is supporting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2bc7681b5c74673a66fe47467f07569\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My colleague Darien Fenton asked a question about services in the area north of the Auckland Harbour Bridge, which most people refer to as Auckland. The Minister, in her reply, told us what a Wellington provider thought. She did not answer the question, which asked whether there would be services north of the Auckland Harbour Bridge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fa568a05d954f8f960ea876cb92631d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If that was the only question asked, that would be fine. But I invite the member to listen to the supplementary questions being asked. The supplementary question asked what representations the Minister had received on the matter. In the Minister\u2019s answer she talked about representations she had received on the matter. The example she gave later on did not relate to Northland, but she had already answered. She only needs to answer one part of a supplementary\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec28306ff93147d89d0e97adb2ae26bc\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Further to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d51b087a992443b9b8f61e2c5a5e2b5b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b4f78e3e5fc4c919225d0be5f47fa94\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry, I thought you were dipping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251921c8741734cb8a867f8f545d3e2b5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What is more, he will not argue with me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ec09e15c9c84b43beb0824497fb7e7f\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member asked about representations. She asked about representations from colleagues. That question was not addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022448f1fc2ebec461c865f8bf989ae8910\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister answered the question. She said she had received a number of representations on the matter. I think that anyone would assume that she was talking about what the member had asked her about. We do not need to get as pedantic as that. As far as I am concerned, she answered the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022409ceda33e364c5a87d7af898cb006b5\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think it is acceptable that there will be no adult and community education classes in the whole of the West Coast - Tasman electorate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228724070f869a417e95c1e67eafeae93b\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: The Tertiary Education Commission has not yet finalised that matter. It is my understanding that the initial discussions have been held and it has not yet been finalised; that is coming in the near future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae0f6a352bfe4b28ae829e29136853f3\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think it is acceptable that no secondary schools in the Hutt Valley will even be applying for adult and community education night classes next year; and has she communicated the details of her funding cuts to National list MP Paul Quinn, who told a public meeting in Upper Hutt that those who claimed that the funding had been cut had their facts wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022999788dd59c64f9e97372f59f4c48929\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is investing $124 million in adult and community education. That does not have to be provided through schools; it can be provided through a variety of tertiary institutions. I say again that the final decisions have not been made and they will not be made until a few weeks from now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022139641eed62c45cab9fa7e7a023fba25\u0022\u003EKelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: What will be the impact of reduced adult and community education provision on M\u0101ori, who frequently access these classes as a route back into formal education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229abc11fef92e42fe85e2af93fba0d140\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: There are a lot of myths about adult and community education. M\u0101ori will benefit from the new focus on literacy and numeracy; I am not quite sure how supporting classes in ukulele playing and tie-dying silk scarves will help many M\u0101ori back into formal education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223abe14b495e745c0a4982c3fe9ba563b\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: What will be the impact of reduced adult and community education provision on Pacific Island parents who rely on these classes to equip them to understand what their children are learning at school, to improve and increase parenting skills, and to improve their English?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237a91a050ada46b5afe3433a18bb5e19\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I say that there are a lot of myths about adult and community education. Those parents will benefit from the focus on numeracy, literacy, and foundation skills; again, I am not sure that the taxpayer\u2019s continuing to fund hobby courses on things like Moroccan cooking, ukulele playing, belly dancing, make-up, and how to better one\u2019s relationships will do those parents any good at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dc72596052994720a9e9af1c1b0188ac\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation\u2014Counselling\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022253ea254e7ad4a89a1fe356c61e15727\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for ACC: What evidence does he have that victims of sexual abuse suffer from clinical mental disorders; and why is he insisting that victims of sexual abuse will have to be diagnosed with a clinical mental disorder from the American Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, version four, before their claims for ACC-funded counselling are accepted?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022e17dcc7a8e6349d29ca2c1de32861dad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e17dcc7a8e6349d29ca2c1de32861dad\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E The law requires that the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) can only accept sensitive claims from those diagnosed with a mental injury. This Government has made no changes, nor does it intend to make any changes in this regard. The changes that are raising controversy in this area arise from the implementation of new clinical guidelines based on comprehensive research from Massey University on the right care for sensitive claimants. I remain of the view that clinicians and not politicians should decide on appropriate treatments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022784265d015d44a85b04b086c8d96e9f8\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: What was his response to the 200 protestors who marched on Parliament yesterday stating that the added stigma of a mental disorder would put off people seeking help; and what support will be available for sexual abuse victims who will require counselling that is not related to clinical mental disorders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022242fce4d9777468d9cb23a1fd14c2cab\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I would say to them, as I would say to all members of the House, that they should read the Injury Prevention, Rehabilitation, and Compensation Act, which requires a mental injury to have occurred for there to be a valid claim. I quote section 27, which states: \u201CMental injury means a clinically significant behavioural, cognitive, or psychological dysfunction.\u201D [Interruption] Members opposite say that that is wrong; that is the law that stood in place for the entire time of the Act that they passed in 2001.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdf751f2c0d14b96a222f8fcc8256353\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Minister say to the hundreds of counsellors who marched in the streets yesterday who say the new accident compensation guidelines are not best practice; is he saying that they are not qualified and not expert?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272e41caeb5c942208530640b755a06c7\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, I can say, as the Minister, that this Government has made no decisions in respect of dealing with sensitive claims. The changes arise from a piece of work by Massey University that occurred under the previous Government. The decisions have been made by clinicians on the basis of what is thought to be the best standard of practice, and as a Minister I am very hesitant to overrule the decisions of skilled clinicians. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242917d0257914fd48fd1bcba97ca66a1\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: What response does he have to the situation described in today\u2019s New Zealand Herald by an Auckland mother of three, who states that the psychiatric test set to be imposed on sexual abuse victims as a requirement for ACC support almost killed her?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233369daf00054244a7222a30d6253181\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I note that the person referred to was actually assessed last year under the previous Government. This reinforces the fact that the legal test for a valid claim has not changed. I have confidence that psychiatrists can professionally do their assessments without putting people\u2019s lives at risk. I stress again that we as politicians should leave clinical decisions to clinicians.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d0a5f0ea2657407a9e5ec1b3ea38439a\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation\u2014Proposed Increase in Motor Vehicle Levy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242cda0a6c1e74b33bcab1af26b1509ab\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for ACC: What is the proposed increase in ACC levy fees for a car and how much would it have been if the date for full funding of the motor vehicle account is not extended?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae91dbb3ed0c4a14aa8d565f7c3f08d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae91dbb3ed0c4a14aa8d565f7c3f08d7\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E The increase proposed by the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) board for the average motor vehicle is $130.28, but with the Government\u2019s amendments to the scheme, including pushing out the full funding date, that figure is reduced to an increase of $30. This is complicated by the fact that the levy may be imposed on the fuel or on the licence fee, that there are different models for extending the full funding date\u2014and I note the differences between my own bill and the member\u2019s, which make a difference\u2014and by the fact that there is also a relativity adjustment for different types of vehicles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef758c35fc1049f3894649334ea3d1b6\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is the second day I have put this question down on notice. What the question seeks to do is to separate out the effect on levies of extending the date for full funding; that is all the question seeks to do. Again the Minister has not answered the question. He has not told us what is the consequence on fees of extending the date for full funding, and that is what the question asks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b841ee04523b45e0994a141f8937bc45\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I would dearly like to help the honourable member but I am at something of a loss, because I heard the Minister tell the House just now that under the status quo the increase would be, I think he said, $137 or something\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc3c91694a274f2bb6407cd1b48b3dbc\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: $130.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022341e566a5fb2421187ce65cad850f7c6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014$130\u2014and that with the extension proposed the figure comes down to $30. I do not see what it is the member is seeking to have me try to achieve. I realise that the member has a real interest in this question and that it is on notice, but it seems to me the Minister has answered. He has given us two figures that depend on those two factors. If there is some aspect that is escaping my notice, the member has more supplementary questions to drill down into that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb6b406c4c9649a29a80132d632ad63d\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an extract from the briefing to incoming Minister, which shows that the extension of the full funding date to 2019 would be responsible for $83.70 of the lower increase. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a230093df594a978b06d4b9e2fd2604\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that briefing to incoming Minister. Is there any objection to that? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae0a47ed043f4f768a042cd883afcf45\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister not tell the Prime Minister that the majority of the lower increase in accident compensation registration and petrol levies is caused by the extension for full funding, because the Prime Minister, in answer to question No. 1 today, said that it was only a small part of the solution?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207b5a3f1c8654fdcb79c90e2442b2fe1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member is incorrect. It is true that a significant amount of the reduction in the motor vehicle account is from a full funding extension, and I have said that quite consistently. The thing that members opposite do not seem to understand is that there is actually no real saving collectively from pushing out the full funding date. The only thing we change is when we pay\u2014that is, by pushing the full funding date out, we have lower levies in the short term but higher levies in the long term. The point this Government makes is that if we want real savings, we have to make real savings. That is what the Government\u2019s programme is about doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247888953c4664389897f7e837d11d7ac\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it Government policy for the accident compensation scheme to be fully funded rather than to be a \u201Cpay as you go\u201D scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206219afbc5f94ca28c4a140dcd0d17ed\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The principle of full funding is that the accident compensation scheme should fund the full cost of accidents in the year in which they occur. The first reason for this policy is that it puts a proper focus on improving safety. If the costs are pushed out into the never-never, there will never be the same incentives for reducing accidents. The second reason concerns the incentives that apply to governance and scheme managers. It is easy to promise extra entitlements when another Government in the future has to do the paying. Full funding puts a better focus on the trade-offs between the entitlements and the actual cost to levy payers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a0a3d6fb10c4644a4f53cf2a1edbc85\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with John Key\u2019s statement last week that an \u201Chonest conversation\u201D is needed with New Zealanders about how to balance levies and the scope of cover; if so, how can it be honest for his Government to cut accident compensation scheme cover before that conversation takes place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d1e77d32d834c7183c94da6cf1c1116\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is important for us to have an open discussion about the trade-offs for higher levies. What the Government and the country cannot have is the continuous argument from members opposite that we can have a whole lot of entitlements but nobody has to pay for them. That is irrational.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e0e02c904a84668b5fcdfef01a3aeff\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: What changes is the Government proposing in response to the ministerial inquiry into the accident compensation scheme\u2019s blow-outs, which concluded there was a breach by the previous Labour Government of the Public Finance Act in the 2008 Pre-election Fiscal Update over the finances of the scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1f802fdb0df4fcaa490343af7360959\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is making two important changes. First, new provisions in our amendment bill will require the tabling of an actual report into the accident compensation scheme\u2019s financial situation. I note that actuaries back in 2006 expressed concern when the ACC board made some quite bold assertions about ongoing investment returns, but that never made it into the annual report that ACC tabled in Parliament. This change will ensure that that does not occur again. The second change we are making is around the timing of the budgetary process for the funding required for the non-earners account. We are shifting it to better fit into the overall budgetary process so that those errors are not repeated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b5fb14720534d69b581c6b311cf6de3\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Government ignored Labour\u2019s offer to vote to extend the date for full funding, which would take substantial pressure off levy increases while John Key\u2019s \u201Chonest conversation\u201D took place; and does his decision to proceed with cuts in the accident compensation scheme\u2019s cover and investigations of privatisation not show that this was the real agenda all along?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebabe3a7c4f4437197d33adb67d8851f\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I make the point that Labour cannot continue the myth of being able to continuously extend the accident compensation scheme without it costing anybody anything. We do need to have a conversation about the extensions. I simply challenge the member to please explain why Labour made a whole lot of extensions to the scheme after the scheme returned an annual report of a $2.4 billion loss. That requires an explanation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f5367cd0ee643b38ace2cc993753d0f\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister reconcile his assurance last week that the legislative changes in his draft bill would provide a \u201Cone-off substantive fix\u201D, and that \u201Conly tinkering\u201D would be required in the future, with the secret plans leaked to the media in the weekend to charge claimants $100 per injury and the reduction of income compensation from 80 percent to 60 percent of earnings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022807069f89c424d2f9b974d64cf889699\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: There is nothing secret. What happened was that the board and I asked ACC officials to explore savings options. Some of those savings options were accepted and included in the bill. Some of them were rejected. I think that is a perfectly rational process for a Government that is trying to fix very difficult financial problems within the accident compensation scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002270f538f46225412181a90ad6379f0221\u0022\u003EElectoral System\u2014Referenda\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022628b4328e8344d0891f020fa3fdfc966\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: What progress has been made on the Government\u2019s plan to hold a referendum on the electoral system as set out in National\u2019s election policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u00228feb87a28a474b1f8f3f7615581487c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228feb87a28a474b1f8f3f7615581487c5\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Today I announced on behalf of the Government that a referendum will be held in conjunction with the 2011 general election. The referendum will ask two questions of voters: first, whether they wish to retain MMP, and, second, which of a list of options is their preferred alternative voting system. If the majority vote to retain MMP, no further referendum is required. If the majority vote for change, the Government commits to holding a second referendum at the time of the 2014 election that will ask voters to choose between MMP and the most preferred alternative system. If the majority vote for a new system in 2014, it will be in place in time for the 2017 general election. I thank all political parties for their initial constructive engagement on this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a57254b0dce4919b262dec4ad204b28\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: What alternative systems will voters be asked to choose from in the 2011 referendum?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f78d78b1b2484841ba0a9e7e13477786\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: To date, Cabinet has made decisions about the timing, structure, and basic format only of the referenda. The next series of decisions will focus on the question wording, including the alternative systems to be put up, as well as further decisions on rules for the referenda, and a public information process. Legislation will be introduced next year to enable the referenda to be held. It will provide the public with an opportunity to have a say on these issues through the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201649d4bdce540a79fd5a299e5229669\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Minister announcing today a decision made by Cabinet a month ago, and is it simply a generous attempt by the Minister to provide a distraction from the shambles surrounding his colleagues the Minister of Broadcasting and the Minister for ACC?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222639d5b1209c4d108a36af69abaedd71\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: Because, until recently, the House was in adjournment, and I wanted to take the opportunity to meet with each political party\u2019s representative, which works better in a sitting week. The answer to the second question is no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221baedaace9304dee8b9ae42083170297\u0022\u003EAorangi School\u2014Proposed Closure\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279695ffb296d496fa1c0984d58262a62\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What is her current reason for proposing to close Aorangi School?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f520cb3edf5f4b62853d06ea84d89bb6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f520cb3edf5f4b62853d06ea84d89bb6\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E There are three reasons. The reasons for my decision have always been the cost of the rebuild, that it is a small school with a falling roll, and that there are four other schools within a radius of 1.5 kilometres.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dc19f87bdd44d74a6dbdd59fa78b7f6\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister tell the Press that Aorangi School had \u201Cpretty disappointing achievement results\u201D, when that is not backed up by its Education Review Office report; and will she now publicly correct the impression that the school is failing its students, when she now knows that the students she was referring to were entering the school below the national average and achieving at or above the national average by the time they left?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbeaf39ec62845e986f3115fdc4be6d7\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said, the reasons for my decision have always been the cost of the rebuild, the fact that it is a small school with a falling roll, and the fact that there are four schools within 1.5 kilometres. During my discussion with the chairman of the board and the principal, I asked them why they had not talked about student achievement in their rather substantial submission to me. I say to the House that one of the difficulties that this Government is addressing with the national education standards is that there is no data on student achievement within the ministry, other than what the school cares to publish in its variance report; other than that, there is no information. But the school itself chose not to even mention student achievement in its submissions to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0e3c4ec751b4fa8b02028194cb9fe7b\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Did she read the report of the independent facilitator, who stated that if the Minister decided to continue with the rebuild, she would be \u201Centirely in tune with the school, its community, and all the organisations and agencies who work with it\u201D; if so, who is she in tune with in deciding to close the school, which is needed in that community?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265f64fa0bf654b0f812825897b499db2\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I repeat to that member that the reasons for my decision are the cost of the rebuild, the fact that it is a small school with a falling roll, and the fact that there are four other schools surrounding that school within 1.5 kilometres of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229b66180ffa34c1eadf861847e6c0a0a\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she request that the closure option be included in the ministry briefing paper dated 5 February this year, given that she had written to the board 10 days before that without even mentioning to it the possibility of closure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e17d573dbab49fc9cd281ebba8eb8e1\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: That member will be aware\u2014and if she is not, perhaps she could do a little homework\u2014that around the closure of any school there is a process. When writing to the school 10 days earlier I could not have indicated any thoughts I had about what was going to happen with that school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239544dcdcea94b59aeae47a25d2d6c25\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think the Minister misheard my question. I asked her why she had requested 10 days later that the closure option be included in a briefing paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b70968cf7174048b19084bdf8042c96\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the member to repeat her question exactly, to make sure there is no misunderstanding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292bedde393714f8393f0995210a67c65\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she request that the closure option be included in the ministry briefing paper dated 5 February, given that she had written to the board 10 days before that without even mentioning the possibility of closure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230f6a33c5db446f8a0e91365d29ff34f\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am perfectly entitled to ask the ministry for advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248e89e09e1fc4e8b955a97beae43d8c6\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the very extensive written submission from Aorangi School that the Minister referred to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bfd49f0414c42d1842d02d488ac8fb2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2fe5ba5b25347e8aed5e47457334063\u0022\u003ETrades Academies\u2014Establishment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229c5b8505af743b9841600d1309d8a2a\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What recent announcements has she made about trades academies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb08250b1699451d80bfca0974eba3cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb08250b1699451d80bfca0974eba3cc\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Last week I announced the names of five further trades academies that will join the already announced Southern Cross Campus trades academy. These five will open their doors in 2011. I also announced that a further six proposals will be developed with a view to establishing trades academies in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b36d86139294181a3b50b8257b56b74\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: What types of proposals have been accepted in this round?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022318e8a5e15ab484d82e1f128cf43340e\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Trades academies are partnerships between schools, tertiary institutions, industry training organisations, and employers that will give students a head start in an industry-related career. The successful proposals show that these organisations have met this Government\u2019s drive for innovative thinking to get more of our young people engaged in learning. In some, the lead partner is a school, like Northland College. One school, Catlins Area School, will involve virtual learning environments. Other trades academies, such as the one in the electorate of the member who asked the question, involve a tertiary-led partnership\u2014in that case, between the Waikato Institute of Technology and Cambridge High School.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a15f36f21c914c088399fe61acb1bd8d\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: How does her announcement last week compare with the commitments made by the Government previously?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220361fc26010545e7b0fc06b304b5379d\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: This Government had previously committed to supporting five trades academies this term. The announcement last week that we will establish six academies including the Southern Cross Campus academy, and look to establish a further six academies, shows that this Government does not just deliver on its promises, it over-delivers. We are committed to supporting different pathways to keep young New Zealanders engaged in learning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002274dc9dbc2a9e4795b753fa9505dcd88b\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u2014Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c721e0773d7744feaa7c5b949f254922\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement: \u201CI certainly would describe my style as open and transparent.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00224f34bf816f684873929200b8b5736d68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f34bf816f684873929200b8b5736d68\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223280495cda3d4725bda9a31133c2f69d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: How much taxpayers\u2019 money did Cabinet decide on yesterday to subsidise the bid for Rugby World Cup TV free-to-air rights?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d57945aaef54b6b9744ec3d6df8c818\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: That number is actually unknown, on a number of grounds. Firstly, the International Rugby Board has not yet agreed to the bid, so we do not know the final analysis. Secondly, there is still the unknown factor of how much the commercial rights can be sold down to, outside of the main broadcasting networks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228330238fdadd4ea99195429383ca658a\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: In light of his renewed commitment to openness and transparency, will he now confirm that the amount that Cabinet agreed it could go to could now exceed $5 million?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7232471578a47cd8e6d75d4fc96fc5e\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, the figure is less than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296d927f38d2c4c7ea552e6275e505590\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: In light of his renewed commitment to openness and transparency, renewed in his first answer, and given the fact that he says the figure is under $5 million, what is the maximum figure Cabinet agreed to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd9bb860a42d47b0ba7fd2f5810ff7fd\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in answer to an earlier question, I am unable to answer that at this time, for two reasons. One is that I simply do not know, because the final bid has not yet been approved by the International Rugby Board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fcfe557ab8c4f80b02be476e66ba33b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: How do you know it\u2019s under $5 million?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276c7c85aafb24aad94a2f4ba648f9466\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The reason I know it is under $5 million is that it is considerably under $5 million at this point, and I cannot see it moving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002255903be090c3424f8ee03db02b57c578\u0022\u003EMethamphetamine, Action Plan\u2014Police Feedback\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279ec30cdd0ac43ebb2ca6199b3bc96a3\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE (National\u2014Coromandel)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: To the Minister of Police\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fd28266a18546b889893b73c9c95517\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please show courtesy to Sandra Goudie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ab5f5e1cab8479c817e76a137e9a2b7\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE\u003C/span\u003E: Has she received any feedback from the police on the Government\u2019s Action Plan on Methamphetamine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee5f016ba9444e229f4a98dfbbec25fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee5f016ba9444e229f4a98dfbbec25fe\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. The police have welcomed the Government\u2019s Action Plan on Methamphetamine and will take full advantage of the increased enforcement and legislative powers that the plan provides.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a3464a0f0e24530a3b7affa99ee7392\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Government\u2019s action plan assist police in the fight against methamphetamine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022090a8dfbe4c14baab6a1a90c60bf55bb\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: The new Police Methamphetamine Control Strategy will assist police to break supply chains, reduce methamphetamine-related crime, and seize the profits and assets made through P dealing. The police will be cracking down on gangs through extra intelligence, working with the Customs Service, and targeting P cooks. All areas of policing will be targeting manufacturers and dealers of P, including road policing, general duties, the Criminal Investigation Branch, community constables, and Youth Aid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221c20591705ab47e6b6c28c08d41d4cb7\u0022\u003EAid\u2014Quality of Programmes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226199ac9087924895bac602c541a7c004\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: Does he accept the judgment of the report card released on 16 October 2009 by ActionAid that ranks New Zealand last out of 22 donor countries for the quality of its aid programme for hunger relief and sustainable agriculture; and what does he propose to do to improve New Zealand\u2019s performance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3f3fd1d209d4e79ac330b4b342284f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3f3fd1d209d4e79ac330b4b342284f7\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e38a7894d864549a948f30275c83880\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: Does he intend to set a date for New Zealand to reach the aid target of 0.7 percent GNI to show that his Government will improve on our current miserly and inept performance\u2014to paraphrase Kipling: last, loneliest, ugliest? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8a3b10acd9548cdb99c42bfa742d149\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Those figures are always under review, but the fact of the matter remains that the report that the member refers to is flawed in a number of respects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271f8082173024bb2b84e535608602393\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned, given the flaws in the report, that the emphasis of his Government in his aid policy on economic growth will undermine the goals of poverty and hunger alleviation in the Pacific Islands countries specifically, given New Zealand\u2019s ranking of last for sustainable agriculture, second-to-last for social protection, and last for climate change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d610959bc604c40b311e43586b87b9d\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c7b5f22c63a4d89b63ef7b1ee627641\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Government\u2019s policy to re-orient New Zealand\u2019s aid to private sector development help reduce the rate at which women in Papua New Guinea die in childbirth, which is 23 times higher than the rate in New Zealand, given that the ActionAid report rates New Zealand as the lowest in the OECD on aid to social protection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c99685aa42204535a55e5ecb49cc3ddf\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Unlike the Labour member, we do not believe that bureaucracy can be equated with aid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ae2756ed57547c78f5bc682c47cf299\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the report of ActionAid, which points out New Zealand\u2019s miserable performance, so that the Government can explain in greater detail the flaws\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264b5bae68b994fb2ba4d2fe6c66e4922\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member should just seek leave to table the document and describe the document, not comment on it further. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224401a1280cb74c8aa5486d2aaf4bd98b\u0022\u003EQuestions to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ee2751688c1a4c8884d9f3817b05bb02\u0022\u003EClimate Change Response (Moderated Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill\u2014Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f29ac45e77504a6eb72442d229e8f712\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee: When did submissions on the Climate Change Response (Moderated Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill close?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u00229e36d608ec0441828438325a8f5d9305\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e36d608ec0441828438325a8f5d9305\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Tuesday, 13 October 2009. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022704e9ae455d54c058ab3e522eee8da10\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Has he received any complaints about the short time-frame given for submissions and for the report back of the Climate Change Response (Moderated Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2fc9177fdf64ab29451d2f617de77b9\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: Any correspondence to the committee chair remains the property of the committee and within the committee while the item remains an open item of business of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224870a92552034b6aa7294b799dfbdd2e\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Although that might be correct, my understanding of the point of questions to members is that those details could be revealed to the House notwithstanding the fact that the committee\u2019s business was proceeding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250453906397449c282c1d84c12e73165\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is a fair point the member raises about sorting out these kinds of issues, but, as I understand the Standing Orders, correspondence to a committee remains confidential to the committee until it reports back to the House. So I think the response from the chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee was appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2306b72778e4f4f8ffa211f4802db4d\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My supplementary question was not confined to correspondence. It referred to any complaints, so anything verbal, anything by telephone, anything\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227741dd25261f4641a28dab7ca02709a2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was a nice try, but I think the member must accept that the chair of the committee is at liberty to interpret the question in the way that he did, and I think that is fair enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220b97243f8f15410d95867d3ee27a254a\u0022\u003EClimate Change Response (Moderated Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill\u2014Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228967c8fb7901468e95a51d34a3000a88\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee: How many submissions were received by the committee on the Climate Change Response (Moderated Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u00221fd6cd477a524682ab29a33999f23106\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fd6cd477a524682ab29a33999f23106\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Three hundred and seventy-two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c91d42cc8dae45be945265500c94122a\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Did he receive any requests for all submissions to be heard in one day; if so, whom did he receive the request from?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022465df94833444bb08c387c3414c83dad\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I say all correspondence received by the committee is part of the committee while that item is an open item of business in the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee72462e2406461b8099dcf9fd4393d0\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is a slightly different point of order from the one that I raised last time. I did not confine my question to members of the public making requests of the member. I asked: \u201CDid he receive any requests for all submissions to be heard in one day; if so, whom did he receive the request from?\u201D. It is an important question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bce22d1e5684e2ba6afe76cb4675b5e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I say that as I understand the Standing Orders, if there was an exchange going on within the committee, or, in other words, if the member is alluding to the possibility that a member of the committee was involved\u2014if it was not a member of the public, I presume the other possibilities are that the member is referring to a member of the committee or to another member of this House\u2014and if the committee has been written to, then the chair\u2019s response is appropriate. If the matter is internal to the committee, then he is not a liberty to divulge that to the House yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e41e0fdd7c9402d8fc51a816adfefa8\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Just by way of clarification of your ruling, does that imply that once the committee has reported to the House it would be perfectly in order to ask this question again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc7f1536ae4d4dadb1c58461b5447e31\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As I understand the situation, the business would no longer be before the select committee. I am sure it will not be difficult for the member to think up all sorts of ways of reporting what went on at the committee himself in debates following the report back of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022972850b61f4c426a91256220e35e7eaf\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: The difficulty that I have, and I am genuinely trying to seek your assistance on a way forward, is that if I cannot get an answer from the member as to whether anybody, be that person someone who is external to the committee\u2014a member of the public\u2014or a member of this House, has communicated with him about committee business while the committee is deliberating or has a matter before it, and if I cannot ask him about that once the committee has reported because it is functus officio, then the House may not know the answer to a very important question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ec51ac8950f48328ecdbe93b5a6400d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As I understand the situation, the House will have plenty of opportunity to know what went at the committee when the House debates the matter. There will be plenty of opportunity for debate about what went on at the committee at that point, but the questions that can possibly be asked of the chairs of committees are very restricted. I think the member will accept that he has set himself a significant challenge in relation to finding supplementary questions to the particular questions that he has put down today. They are very restricted, and I think the chair of the committee has answered that supplementary question appropriately. I advise the member to go on to member\u2019s question No. 3. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002253061ca3e9064eb6a417686a011cd2d6\u0022\u003EClimate Change Response (Moderated Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill\u2014Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260e534faf0d0451694bb62c32e0c8e5e\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee: How\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c403cad089f0409c9de9253be78d0204\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: You should know better. Read your Standing Orders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022829ba27709ae4baf9cad0bdd682af149\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: I thank Ms Goudie for that procedural advice. How many submitters requested to appear before the committee to speak to their submissions on the Climate Change Response (Moderated Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022054fd5f008e04a0dbcde878283b4b7d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022054fd5f008e04a0dbcde878283b4b7d2\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee):\u003C/span\u003E One hundred and eighty-four. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022070a9656767d43e290cb0d908780ad1a\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Did the chairperson receive any requests that only 27 submissions be heard on the Climate Change Response (Moderated Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill, as was his position at the outset of the opening of hearings; if so, who did he receive this request from? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8dfd9b4732649fabcc01791ff2da6fb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I imagine that if I call Craig Foss to answer that question, we will get the same answer. I will leave it with the chair of the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287ad834a8646433fb6f3198e1959c25f\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: The hearing of submissions is a matter for the committee. Whether submissions are heard and how they are heard is determined by decision of the committee. Hearings of evidence on the bill are being booked in accordance with decisions of the committee. I thank the member for his assistance as a member of that committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280a61cd0ce524935b74e119483ffed6a\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That supplementary question may be unlike the other supplementary questions in that it was very specific. It went to a comment that the chair made at the opening of the hearing of submissions. The chair made that comment when the committee was open, and the question refers to the very matter on which my colleague asked the primary question. Therefore I submit to you that that takes it into another category, one where there is a requirement to make a genuine attempt to answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259d9755803a447c891880395f3c8acc5\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I think the rules around questions to members are quite tight. The chairperson of the select committee quite rightly pointed out that the number of people who were heard by way of submission was a matter for the committee to determine. We can assume only that the committee made a determination. If we were to have questions in the House that just went around the table asking what each member of the committee thought was a satisfactory number or otherwise, that would be of no relevance to the House. What is of relevance is that the bill is reported back to the House with a report and an understanding that the committee was satisfied, at least in majority, that enough people were heard on the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a9bb4ea93c04c9ca14d35eb78c71815\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I think the important point is that the member had said in open committee that there was a request to hear only 27 submitters. The question was a pretty simple one around who made that request of him. It was not something private. The fact that 27 was the number suggested is now out there. It has been out there in a public session. Therefore my submission is that it is not protected as the previous ones have been. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdbd5554b9f849ffbd4253b2db53479d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: On this matter it seems pretty clear to me that the answer provided by the chair of the committee is exactly right. The matters in respect of those who will be heard by the committee are decisions for the committee; they are not matters that the chair can be questioned on. The chair can answer in this House only as authorised by the committee, or in respect of the kinds of details that the chair has already given in response to the questions. I really think the House should move on to member\u2019s question No. 4. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002260d26ee6ff8c450faae674ad77f05d13\u0022\u003EClimate Change Response (Moderated Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill\u2014Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de985a68b4b74344b12661c7f435201b\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee: When did the committee begin hearing oral submissions on the Climate Change Response (Moderated Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022c30e3af564474dbaa365c69e40279f3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c30e3af564474dbaa365c69e40279f3d\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee):\u003C/span\u003E The Finance and Expenditure Committee began hearing evidence on the bill on Thursday, 15 October 2009, at 4 p.m. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6d344e480c04d02b009d53a3b7ef34e\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: How much advance notice of the invitation to appear before the committee was given to submitters who appeared before the committee on Thursday, 15 October? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dc2fd687fea4bb99476453121fb3830\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: Submitters were arranged in accordance with the committee\u2019s decisions that week about hearing evidence. Submitters were advised in the letters acknowledging their submissions, in the advertisements calling for submissions, and in the guidance on making submissions that they may be asked to appear at short notice if they wished to be heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e32b369694cc45b498206d9af0a6542b\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I thank the chairperson for the information he has provided, but I asked \u201CHow much advance notice of the invitation to appear before the committee was given to submitters who appeared before the committee \u2026\u201D. I would certainly be obliged if you would ask him to address the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a64146928fb427f878635ab97a65d8b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The chair of the committee may not have answered in the words that the member was looking to have the chair answer in, but the Speaker cannot guarantee the wording of answer. The chair made it very clear that at a certain point, as the member will be aware, a decision was made as to which people would be heard, and they were advised. Apparently, that is the way the committee operated. It is pretty obvious, therefore, how much notice people received. Just because the chair did not say \u201Cx number of days\u201D, I cannot force him to give the specific answer that the member wanted to hear. He certainly heard from the chair an answer that will enable him to determine the length of the warning people received. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220de228496c394788968006ae97ff0a20\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. As a member of that committee, I wish to first verify the point that two of my colleagues have made that the matters referred to were discussed in a public session as well as in a closed session of the select committee. That is the first point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250199c84d92f429d94ff3fd23af7d101\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffb20f4b30da4c03a1138bae0a4a6b7c\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: The second point is that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a777b7185084700b87978fd81640b01\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member who is interjecting should not be interjecting, but it is my fault, perhaps, that he is. This is not a matter to do with the order of the House right now, at all, and, therefore, it should not be raised in that way. I blame myself for that disruption.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022032f5909353d413596dbdefdc04b9f74\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is a new point of order. This point of order simply reflects the fact that I was not allowed to finish the previous point of order, and a request to you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022733be430f23b4645acda384feeb54be7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat. He has established exactly why I am not hearing any more on the matter. Points of order should be made very clear from the outset. The member\u2019s preamble was nothing to do with the order of the House, and, therefore, it caused interjection. As far as I am concerned, that is the end of the matter, because I have dealt with the previous issue in any case. There is no further matter to be dealt with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b15eeb2b459429795cae3437eb03659\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ced03deca02d4b8f993305715dba795d\u0022\u003ERugby World Cup\u2014Broadcasting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00226d7e8a86258d46ee81efb796a9bf87cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d7e8a86258d46ee81efb796a9bf87cf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a letter from the Leader of the Opposition seeking to debate under Standing Order 380 the Cabinet decision to support a joint bid from the M\u0101ori Television Service, Television New Zealand, and TV3 for free-to-air television broadcasting rights for the Rugby World Cup 2011. This is a particular case of recent occurrence involving ministerial responsibility and I consider it does deserve the immediate attention of the House. I call upon the Leader of the Opposition to move that the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7f3b1ade2684b51a40d6ad79034e494\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7f3b1ade2684b51a40d6ad79034e494\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am a little perplexed by your statement that there was a Cabinet decision to support a particular bid. I am unaware of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022e413429702824d95be42a1a5ad860c0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e413429702824d95be42a1a5ad860c0e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All I can\u2014[Interruption] I am dealing with a point of order. All I can quote is a www.beehive.govt.nz release, under the name of the Prime Minister, that states: \u201CPrime Minister John Key says Cabinet today agreed to support a joint bid \u2026\u201D. [Interruption] I am dealing with an important matter, and there will be silence. I am not party to Cabinet discussions, so there is no way that I can judge these matters beyond the evidence that is made available to me in support of a request for an urgent debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EAt the end of the day I have to make a judgment on these matters. In this case, on the basis of the Government\u2019s own statement, it appeared that Cabinet did make a decision, because that is what the Prime Minister has stated. In terms of the other matters I have to consider, such as whether it involved ministerial responsibility, it clearly did. As to whether it is a matter that is of sufficient importance to set aside the general business of the House, the Government sees it being of sufficient importance to have a Minister for the Rugby World Cup. As to whether it involves taxpayers\u2019 dollars, it does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EOn all counts I could not see how, in fairness, I could not grant this request for an urgent debate. As this matter does not involve legislation, I see no other opportunity to debate it in the near future, and that is why I accepted the request for an urgent debate. I call on the Leader of the Opposition to lead that debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022c58ebee441eb4ba4891956e1788deb4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c58ebee441eb4ba4891956e1788deb4c\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance. It is symbolic of the absolute shambles with which the rights to the broadcasting of the Rugby World Cup were allocated that the Minister opposite, the Leader of the House, did not know that the Government had made a decision on broadcasting rights with regard to the Rugby World Cup. Mr Brownlee must have been asleep at the time, which would not be unusual from what his colleagues have told me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216d84583681c4abd84c76febbc6eef1f\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I was not asleep, but I was in the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e8b2271de5f4502ba000b47d3b82b12\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I accept that that is in good humour, but the member should not interrupt another member\u2019s debate in that manner. That is not acceptable. I apologise to the Leader of the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cbb1373910f4fd59fbdd86b52981e78\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Although not challenging your ruling, and I note that you accept Mr Brownlee\u2019s intervention as being good humoured, I simply ask you to reflect latterly on what happened last week, when you made certain rulings and rendered certain sanctions. Again, last week that member transgressed eight times and you dealt with him in exactly the way you did today. There was no penalty and no remedy. I ask you to reflect on balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022440217e0fdf04215bbf035bdf3c70371\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Could I politely suggest to the honourable member that I do not think his point of order is that helpful. I have just pointed out that the member should not interrupt the Leader of the Opposition like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224da2337e43ef4fbcaed7e60269bd35cd\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: I should point out to people around the country who are listening to this debate that Mr Brownlee is the Associate Minister for the Rugby World Cup, and he did not know that his Government had made a decision about broadcasting rights. But I will say in defence of Gerry Brownlee that I am not surprised, as there was so much confusion and so much chaos. This was an absolute fiasco, which was admitted even by the Prime Minister when he said: \u201CWe could have done it better.\u201D That must be the understatement of the year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe absolute shambles that has marked the Government\u2019s handling of this issue, not to mention the issue of accident compensation and the situation with the emissions trading scheme, shows that this Government lacks leadership, lacks any coherence, and lacks management of what its Ministers are doing. No less than a third\u2014a third\u2014of the National Cabinet was involved in this decision: the Prime Minister, the Minister of Finance, Gerry Brownlee as Associate Minister for the Rugby World Cup, Mr McCully as Minister for the Rugby World Cup, the Minister of Broadcasting, Georgina te Heuheu, and Dr Pita Sharples. There were seven of them, a third of the Cabinet, and they could not get their act together. They were not listening to each other, they were not talking to each other, and they did not agree with each other about how to secure the broadcasting rights for free-to-air television viewing for the Rugby World Cup.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EInstead, the Government ended up with a very sorry saga of Ministers attacking each other in public, Ministers launching personal attacks on the heads of Government departments, and Ministers attacking the broadcasting agencies and saying things to the public that people like Jim Mather said were absolutely untrue. This debate has been requested to hold the Government to account for its absolutely incompetent handling of this affair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI am worried that with an event like this, which will be one of the biggest in the sporting history of this country, we have seen the initial handling of the event by the National Government as being so incompetent. It makes us wonder how safe the investment of $300 million of taxpayer funds in this event will be. We worry even more when the losses expected from ticket sales have gone up by $9 million in the last couple of weeks. When we see the saga of incompetence in handling the broadcasting issues, we wonder how this Government will deliver in a successful way something that the eyes of the world will be on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWe ended up with the absolute farce of taxpayer-funded agencies using public money to outbid each other, to fill the pockets of the International Rugby Board. How can that make sense? I ask how it can make sense to have two different Government agencies using taxpayer money to enrich the International Rugby Board, when this Government keeps saying that it is cutting adult and community education because it cannot afford it. It could afford it if it showed some competence in the way it was running these issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EIf we are talking about money and the emissions trading scheme, there is the $30 billion, which Dr Nick Smith never told the country about, that it will cost New Zealand taxpayers, by 2050, to subsidise polluters. It is another example of a shambles and of absolute incompetence. This Government cannot even run a select committee to hear the evidence. There were 300 submissions and the Government wanted to hear them in 1 day. How much notice\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a1c0b12112248b5bc954b355bc88fae\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The specific debate sought was to do with broadcasting arrangements for the Rugby World Cup. I apologise for interrupting the honourable Leader of the Opposition, but I was listening for quite a while to the member debating other issues. This is not a general debate; this is specifically on the urgent debate requested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ddcfec4c1f74d9bb5024cf9463ce9cd\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I was simply drawing out the fact that the shambles in the management of the broadcasting rights for the Rugby World Cup was not isolated to one event. There is a pattern and it involves several different policy issues\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214c3a25ac15d4bcaa58db4585a77ed9a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy for the member to refer in passing to other matters that may be causing concern, but I stress that the bulk of the debate seemed to be moving away from the matter sought in this urgent debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022716e265dc4834dbe804a96a3a24eb2a7\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Some serious questions need to be answered by Mr Brownlee when he takes his call. The first question relates to the fact that under statute the broadcasting agencies are meant to be independent of Government direction. What happened to those statutory provisions? The Government was donkey deep in telling the respective agencies what they should be doing. This Government is ignoring the rule of law. This Government is meant to be acting under a statutory provision but it has ignored it. Secondly, there is the serious question of why, I say to Mr Brownlee, we are using taxpayers\u2019 money at all to fund those broadcasting free-to-air rights, when this should be a commercial decision made by those who are bidding for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe International Rugby Board is laughing all the way to the bank, because it knows that every extra million dollars that the Government uses to subsidise this bid for broadcasting rights is the amount by which it can up the price to the New Zealand taxpayer. This decision ought to have been a commercial decision. It was not, and the only thing that has been achieved is to play into the hands of the International Rugby Board and the amount of money that will have to be paid for the free-to air rights. The net impact of Government money has been simply to raise the price expectations of the International Rugby Board. The net impact of ministerial involvement in this area seems to have been only to increase the confusion, rather than facilitate a resolution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EMr Brownlee should answer a third question in the absence of John Key being prepared to do so. It is about ministerial ethics. I ask the question directly of Gerry Brownlee: did a Government Minister leak details of the M\u0101ori Television Service\u2019s bid to Television New Zealand (TVNZ)? It is a simple question, but a very important question, because it comes down to a matter of ethics. How could any commercial organisation ever trust the National Government to deal with commercially sensitive material in an appropriate and ethical way if this is the lesson of what happens to commercial bids when they are passed across to a Minister? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EPita Sharples has been reasonably clear about this. He said that the handling of the bidding process by other Ministers was \u201Cnot squeaky clean\u201D. That was the other master of understatements that was made. Then Jonathan Coleman was asked on TV3 whether he leaked that material. Members should listen to the answer; I am sure it will persuade everybody. He said: \u201CI cannot recall giving them specific information.\u201D Jonathan Coleman knows the truth\u2014that is, Government Ministers did leak that information. That is not just poor ethics. That is not just bad commercial practice. It shows absolutely bad faith between Ministers. One Minister gives information to another Minister, only to find that that information is leaked to a third party bidding against the first organisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EWhere was the leadership of John Key on this matter? What did he say? Let me quote it to the House: \u201CThe process was far from perfect and National ministers need to take their fair share of responsibility for that.\u201D What about the John Key who promised this country, earlier this year, that he expected high standards from his Ministers. I ask Mr Brownlee where the high standards were when it came to Ministers leaking commercially sensitive information. Then Mr Key said about his MPs and his Cabinet that there would be a no-surprises policy. Well, the National Ministers claimed that Pita Sharples dumped the surprise on them. Pita Sharples contributed to that by apologising for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EBut what do we find out when we see the information about the time lines? We find out that Bill English knew back in June about this bid. He knew in June about the Te Puni K\u014Dkiri money that had been put up. When we look through the sorry saga of it, Mr Sharples met with Mr English to talk about the plan. Georgina te Heuheu was in the room when it happened. The M\u0101ori Television Service bid stayed on the table. Bill English said he was going to give some thought to it. He gave some thought to it! Pita Sharples found out when TVNZ came in with a rival bid informed by the leaked information, which absolutely surprised Pita Sharples. I do not think it is good enough for Mr Key to say that he did not know whether any of his Ministers had leaked commercially sensitive information to TVNZ, and that he did not plan to ask them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ef8e0ed6dbd417db420746e950a0822\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: What!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af1d1298d5c942439813433367e7736f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Here it is: the Prime Minister talks about high standards, and sees an absolute example of low standards\u2014unacceptable, unethical, and non-collegial behaviour\u2014and says he will not ask and will not tell. That is John Key\u2019s definition of transparency. He instead blamed confusion among \u201Ca lot of Ministers engaged on our side with different responsibilities\u201D. A lot of Ministers involved with different responsibilities! I served for 9 years under Helen Clark. She never made excuses about not fulfilling the role of leadership when different Ministers were involved with cross-portfolio issues. The chairman of Cabinet manages that process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThis Government\u2019s management has been an absolute shambles, and it brings into real doubt whether it is competent to manage the process of the Rugby World Cup, which the previous Labour Government secured for this country, working in collaboration with the New Zealand Rugby Union board. This event, if properly managed, promises to be a huge success for New Zealand, but what confidence will New Zealanders have about the competency of this Government to manage the process, when it has begun in this way? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI will finish by raising a conflict between Jonathan Coleman and Jim Mather, the Chief Executive of M\u0101ori Television. I ask Gerry Brownlee another question: who is telling the truth? Jonathan Coleman said that the Government made it clear to the M\u0101ori Television Service in the week before the bids went in. He said that that is what it was going to do. Jim Mather said that Dr Coleman was incorrect in his statement that the Government contacted M\u0101ori Television prior to the bid being submitted. One of those men is not telling the truth, I say to Mr Brownlee. I want him to tell the truth about which one of those men is telling a lie about what he did. Here is another comment from Mr Coleman. He said the M\u0101ori Television Service had decided it wanted to go it alone. Jim Mather says that Maori Television did not decide to go it alone, as stated by Dr Coleman. Is Dr Coleman ignorant of what was happening or was he being deliberately misleading in the statements he made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EHere is a Government where the Ministers are blaming and attacking each other. The Ministers are blaming their heads of departments and speaking to them in unprofessional language. Here is a Government whose Ministers are out attacking the chief executives of the broadcasting agencies in a way that reveals that it is they, the Ministers, who do not know what is happening or do not want to know. This is a Government that does not take responsibility for itself; it is a Government that seeks to blame everybody else. But there is only one body of people responsible for this fiasco\u2014this shambles. That is the National Cabinet, which did not get its act together, despite the fact that seven of its Ministers were working on the broadcasting rights. It did not come out with a coherent policy and it interfered where it should not have interfered. It used taxpayers\u2019 money in a way that will up the cost to the taxpayer, without lowering the cost of getting those broadcasting rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003ENo wonder this is a Government that has a Leader of the House who did not want to debate this issue today. He did not want to debate this issue today because he knows that this is a Government that does not have a leg to stand on when it comes to its utter incompetence in managing the shambles over the broadcasting rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022958cdebb5bcd4ff79812d1c41d9fe280\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022958cdebb5bcd4ff79812d1c41d9fe280\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Associate Minister for the Rugby World Cup):\u003C/span\u003E What does someone do if he is the Leader of the Opposition, has been out of the country for 3 weeks, has not been on TV, has his whole caucus rioting and running around with Hansards stuck in their back pockets and doing the numbers, and then has to come into the House and make a big impression because there has been a poll in the weekend that says \u201CSorry, son, it\u2019s over\u201D? Well, apparently, picking on the Rugby World Cup\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f4a6f04d99e4690beddb17202f5272d\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You made an intervention on the Leader of the Opposition in respect of relevance. I invite you to consider the content of the 40 seconds or 1 minute of this speech and tell me how it was relevant. I invite you to intervene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022542b37c270ba434eaceda5c7a12e8c67\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Speaker will be the sole judge of that. I might point out that it was, in fact, the Leader of the Opposition who sought to have the debate. So, if anything, there is a greater responsibility there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220405cd2afcfa4cf4815f27a6215a7542\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: The Leader of the Opposition was not prepared to come to the House today and talk about what this country is doing about the $250 million a week it is borrowing to hold up the lifestyle in this country. He was not prepared to talk about what we are doing to grow the economy in this country. He was not prepared to talk about what we are doing about the violent crime that we have to stop in this country. He was not prepared to talk about any of those issues. He is worried that all New Zealanders will now be able to see the Rugby World Cup free to air. This is a huge success for this Government and there is no other way of looking at it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWe have made sure that every New Zealander will be able to view all 48 matches of the Rugby World Cup free to air, with the major matches playing across three television channels. M\u0101ori Television has shown that it is a serious player in the broadcasting arena, and I would have thought that Parekura Horomia might be celebrating that. But instead he is running around buying into Phil Goff\u2019s silly nonsense, which is designed only to have him standing up in the House today pretending that he is still the leader of a viable party. It is unbelievable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThis House has a programme this afternoon that will cause us to take urgency to move it on. This programme comprises serious issues that affect the lives of New Zealanders, day by day. This utter nonsense from Mr Goff makes a complete mockery of the idea of having a reasonable Opposition that goes out to test a Government. I cannot believe the Leader of the Opposition. He has been away from the country for 3 weeks, having gone on this jaunt around the world telling everybody what his job is, and upon coming back here and seeing what a mess his party is, and how low he is rating in the opinion polls, he has decided that we should have a snap debate about why New Zealanders should be able to see the Rugby World Cup free of charge on their television sets. It is unbelievable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI do not intend to take the allotted time, because it is a waste of time. I simply say that this is a good result for the Government. It is a tragic day for the Opposition when the best thing it can talk about, with all that is happening in this country, and all the difficulties and challenges we face, is its concern about what happened last week. That is typical!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022715ce8214f584bcf8242626fb83d0ae7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022715ce8214f584bcf8242626fb83d0ae7\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I think I might try to bring the temperature down a little. It is fair to say, given the comments that have been made in the past week both by the Prime Minister and the Hon Tariana Turia, on behalf of the M\u0101ori Party, that both National and the M\u0101ori Party have conceded that this issue of broadcast rights for the Rugby World Cup has not been well handled. Speaking on behalf of the Green Party, I say that we would agree with that. It has not been well handled. It seems clear that as a result of the poor handling of the issue, we as New Zealanders are destined to pay more taxpayer dollars than we otherwise would have. We will pay those dollars into the coffers of the International Rugby Board, with no gain at all, it seems to me, for New Zealanders in exchange for paying over the odds. So I think that is a point of considerable regret for all of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI was surprised by the Prime Minister\u2019s answer today in the House to the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s question about the amount of money that Cabinet yesterday had voted towards these broadcast rights for the Rugby World Cup. To refresh members\u2019 memories, I say that the Prime Minister answered that that was not a question that was possible to answer, because the figure might change in the future and we did not know what the International Rugby Board would accept. But that was not an answer to the question that the honourable Leader of the Opposition had asked. It seems to me that the only possible scenarios that would be consistent with the Prime Minister\u2019s answer would be either that Cabinet has not made its decisions to fund the broadcast rights or, alternatively, that Cabinet has made an open-ended decision in respect of funding. I think that that would be a scenario that we would all be concerned about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe Rugby World Cup will take place at a time of the year in terms of the electoral cycle that will be exciting and tricky for all of us. Many of us are likely to have a busier schedule at that time of the electoral cycle. We will be anticipating and responding to the many invitations to meetings around the country from people who are interested in the general election to be held in that year. From my point of view, as someone who has been anticipating this Rugby World Cup with a mixture of excitement but also trepidation, I wonder, with the cup back in New Zealand, whether it will prove possible for us to win it. But I will relish the opportunity of getting back from whatever election meeting I have attended and being able to turn on the TV and know pretty well that whatever channel that is already on, I will be able to catch the game that is on at that time. The games will be shown on so many channels. From the Green Party\u2019s point of view, we certainly support the games being available free to air. This is an iconic event, the games are iconic, and it is very important that all New Zealanders should have access to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe Green Party has been a strong supporter of M\u0101ori Television. We have supported the role that M\u0101ori Television has played in the revitalisation of M\u0101ori language, and the availability of tikanga M\u0101ori and M\u0101oritanga, to the wider New Zealand population. I guess a lesson we have learnt internationally is that television stations can play a crucial role in promoting the indigenous culture and language of a country. We believe that M\u0101ori Television has performed that role extraordinarily well. We love the philosophy that it has of zigging where the others zag. I was personally extremely excited to hear about the M\u0101ori Television bid for the broadcast rights, because not only would the world be exposed to M\u0101ori culture but more and more New Zealanders would be exposed to te reo M\u0101ori, which has been the experience to date with M\u0101ori Television.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EIt is hard to escape the conclusion that one of the things that has occurred in the past couple of weeks is that Government Ministers, perhaps feeling uncomfortable on behalf of those New Zealanders who harbour either prejudice or antagonism towards M\u0101ori culture and language, have stepped in to spare that group of New Zealanders from having to deal with being confronted with M\u0101ori language. I think that that is an extremely unfortunate turn of events, and I certainly would welcome the opportunity for there to be some kind of inquiry into the reasons behind the actions of Ministers and an investigation into Ministers\u2019 compliance with standards of ethical behaviour for Ministers around their actions in relation to this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EIn summary, I say that the Green Party supports the right of New Zealanders to free-to-air broadcasting of the games. We look forward to the Rugby World Cup, but we believe that something quite profoundly wrong has occurred in the process around these broadcasting rights, not only in the fact that New Zealanders have ended up paying beyond the odds\u2014certainly, an unknown number of dollars beyond the odds; for some time to come we will not know how much this will cost us\u2014but also around the ethical standards that Ministers have followed. We would welcome a proper independent investigation of compliance with those ethical standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00228091805feb6943ec9687d77cb6e6a2e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228091805feb6943ec9687d77cb6e6a2e5\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E It is good to take a call in the Rugby World Cup snap debate. In thinking about rugby, I would say that if Trevor Mallard plays rugby like he plays politics, he would be playing a nasty game. He would be in the ruck, and members would not want to see what was happening in the ruck. I think that Pete Hodgson would probably be doing some detective work, some super-sleuthing, in the game. As for Phil Goff, no one would know that he was playing; he would probably be left right out. Indeed, probably more people watched him give that vein-popping speech in this debate than would vote for him. Mr Cosgrove, of course, would be angry. He would probably drop the ball, but he would be angry. And Parekura Horomia probably would not be playing, but would be looking for McDonald\u2019s. David Cunliffe would be angry; he is angry now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWe have seen first-class leadership from the Prime Minister in respect of the Rugby World Cup broadcasting rights. It was first class. I agree with what Audrey Young said in the newspaper about John Key and that the way he has handled this Rugby World Cup has been absolutely first class, with perfect leadership. He has brought people together. He has brought the broadcasters together. He did a first-class job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EAnd what will we have? We will have free-to-air broadcasts coming for all. That is what New Zealanders want. They are not interested in the beltway issues that the Labour Party is interested in. They are not interested in the side winds and all that stuff. What they want is what they are getting from the National Government: free-to-air for everyone in the country. I want to tell members what the people of New Zealand want. They want a John Key - led Government, and they love rugby. Rugby is almost as popular in this country as John Key, and the people will get both in 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6929933f4e54b2aa51e4ad415e5f020\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6929933f4e54b2aa51e4ad415e5f020\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare. As one would expect, the M\u0101ori Party is proud to stand in the House to promote the incredible success and unique status of our indigenous broadcaster, M\u0101ori Television. This urgent debate today gives us the opportunity, one would have thought, to sing the praises of a world-class indigenous broadcaster\u2014Whakaata M\u0101ori hei pourewa p\u0101p\u0101ho taketake kei ng\u0101 taumata o te ao. It is right at the very top end of broadcasting in this nation, and, indeed, in front of the world, and I will come back to that shortly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFor the last 6 years the M\u0101ori Television Service as a statutory corporation has earned a place at the very heart of every New Zealander for the way in which it presents a unique New Zealand identity within a global society. Although many people of Aotearoa thought that M\u0101ori Television would limit its service and be applicable only to M\u0101ori people, in fact, research tells us that large numbers of New Zealanders latch on to M\u0101ori Television for the way in which it presents New Zealand society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIt is in that context that we enter another space\u2014a sacred space within our nation\u2014the special respect accorded to the national sport of rugby. I stand here to celebrate and to salute the brilliant initiative pioneered by the M\u0101ori Television Service, Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, and, of course, the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, focusing on the free-to-air broadcast of the Rugby World Cup. This is an idea that is transformational in essence, and I encourage the House to pause a few seconds and use that time to be proud of the showcase broadcaster. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EJust over a month ago M\u0101ori Television won a gold award at a ceremony in Sydney for creative endeavours by promotion and marketing professionals who work in the electronic media. The Promax/BDA ANZ 2009 international award honoured M\u0101ori Television for the way in which its reporters are out there amongst the people, getting the stories on the ground and on the issues that matter right across every rohe of the country. In fact, the phrase that encapsulates M\u0101ori Television Service, \u201CKo Ng\u0101i M\u0101tou, Ko Ng\u0101i T\u0101tou\u201D, is what gives M\u0101ori Television the edge over international competitors with far greater budgets and staffing levels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Television is the television of the people. This is the station of Aotearoa and we should be proud of it. In that regard, what better vehicle than this one to ensure that every All Black game, every element of the Rugby World Cup tournament, is also broadcast on M\u0101ori Television because it is a unique opportunity to showcase Aotearoa in our most positive light, including our culture, our society, and our economy. The Rugby World Cup is the most exciting opportunity that this country will have for a long period to present the face of the nation to the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ELet us, for a second, consider what it means to M\u0101ori Television to be the lead broadcaster, because that is the term it has managed to secure with the help, of course, of the lead team working on this bid recently. I listened earlier to Mr Goff saying that here was an event that was a wonderful opportunity to present New Zealand to the world, and I absolutely agree. There is such a strong field of opportunities outside and beyond the goalposts and this is the sort of thing that Minister Sharples, Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, and the M\u0101ori Television Service were thinking about several months ago when they were pulling together the bid to submit to broadcast the occasion, for the satellite that we are looking at will now enable a huge amount of returns on the investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that is prepared to promote M\u0101ori language and culture by supporting M\u0101ori Television, a broadcaster that, by its very definition, promotes M\u0101ori language as the cornerstone of M\u0101ori culture. This is a Government that is prepared to invest in M\u0101ori Television as a platform for M\u0101ori cultural development, to be proud of our national identity and to show that to the world. But, of course, there are many other outcomes and benefits that have been associated with the M\u0101ori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi M\u0101ori) Act, which basically set up M\u0101ori Television as a statutory corporation. High in our priorities have been the significant opportunities for job creation in the M\u0101ori broadcasting sector, and well beyond, as a part of the Rugby World Cup. Minister Sharples was very much instrumental in trying to promote that cause to the nation. I am delighted that Dr Sharples has the vision and the insight to endorse the proposal to support training for young M\u0101ori in broadcasting and information and communications technology industries. That is an important drop-down from this bid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAs a natural consequence, surely the M\u0101ori broadcasting sector will grow, and that also provides huge benefits into the future. At its very minimum, of course, the success of the Rugby World Cup bid will enable M\u0101ori Television to increase its viewer base and to substantially increase its current advertising revenue of approximately $1 million per annum. We have to be behind that sort of discussion. The M\u0101ori Party supported the joint announcement by the Prime Minister, Mr Key, and Dr Sharples in supporting the joint bid as the best way to ensure free-to-air access to all matches, and, at the same time, showcase M\u0101ori culture. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThere are, of course, many, many other outcomes that come from this broadcast\u2014in fact, too many to limit to the 10 minutes I have today. We know that the M\u0101ori Television proposal has excited M\u0101ori people up and down the country. The M\u0101ori Party has been inundated with messages of support and congratulations on promoting, acknowledging, and supporting this bid by M\u0101ori Television, because of the energy and passion it will bring to this particular broadcast\u2014an ability to strut its stuff on the national and international stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIn the past, M\u0101ori Television has been well known for its high-calibre broadcasts: the broadcast of Sir Howard Morrison\u2019s tangi; its broadcasts on Waitangi Day and Anzac Day; and the tangi for Kuini Te Atairangikaahu. In fact, M\u0101ori Television has taken M\u0101ori culture into our living rooms and kitchens so that all Aotearoa can celebrate our unique identity as Aotearoa. A part of that is, of course, that we need the M\u0101ori element that M\u0101ori Television brings to this discussion. It promotes \u201CBrand M\u0101ori\u201D; it celebrates M\u0101ori success; it promotes M\u0101ori tourism; but also it is a wonderful opportunity to include M\u0101ori language and culture as a way of celebrating our unique, iconic heritage. It reflects our national identity to an international audience, and we hope this will create lasting benefits for all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThere are some who have been pretty negative about the bid. We want to think that we can move forward positively with this bid as a unique opportunity that this country will be able to use to present itself not only to New Zealanders but also to address some of the issues raised about the possibility of every broadcast being in the M\u0101ori language. But that has not happened on M\u0101ori Television thus far for any event, so we do not have to worry about that. Also, the mere fact that M\u0101ori Television has engaged the other broadcasters allows us to address the issue of coverage to ensure that all New Zealanders can watch the World Cup in their home, without worrying about missing out. In that regard, we absolutely support the proposals that allow for all broadcasters to work together to produce a product that will be in the best interests of Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022097df5a2a2154db1bef98abdb427763d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022097df5a2a2154db1bef98abdb427763d\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I find that there is not a lot in what the member who has just spoken, Te Ururoa Flavell, said that I disagree with. In fact, there is a lot that he has not said. I think that right in his final comments he might have lacked a little bit of ambition for the M\u0101ori Television Service and broadcasting. It is my view, and I speak as someone who has listened, in particular in the area of Parekura Horomia, to the He Kaea Amohia Trophy broadcast totally in M\u0101ori on iwi radio stations in Mr Horomia\u2019s electorate that it is a good thing to do and that real progress could be made if there was a simulcast in the M\u0101ori language in that way. I have found that even the radio broadcast was not that hard to follow because of the degree of transliteration between English and M\u0101ori in rugby commentary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI agree with what Mr Flavell said about the M\u0101ori Television Service, the way it has been set up, and the leadership role it has been taking in public broadcasting. It has been doing a very good job. It is something I have spent some time on. I spent some time with the people involved in it when I was the Minister of Broadcasting, and I have been very impressed with the work they have done. I think they did a massive con job on Pita Sharples. I do not know how they convinced him that he could breach his ministerial responsibilities and not take a paper to Cabinet in regard to the original bid. I do not know how he could beat both the Te Puni K\u014Dkiri Minister and the M\u0101ori Television Service Minister at the same time\u2014that he could play both sides of the street in a negotiation, in a way that Ministers should not be able to do. But I congratulate them on having the ability to work through this in the way that they did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI point out that I do not support taxpayer money going into what is essentially a commercial bid. I did not support it when Dr Coleman promised on 2 October that he would do it for Television New Zealand. I did not support it when Dr Sharples said that he would do it at an earlier stage; and I do not support it now that the Prime Minister is doing it. I want to ask members opposite what we are doing this for. I make it clear that I regard some of the senior executives of Rugby World Cup Ltd and the International Rugby Board as personal friends. I have spent a lot of time with them. I have watched the organisation grow. I have a particular interest in the area, and I will be seeing more of them in the relatively near future when I am given leave that I will put an application in for soon. They will not be happy with me for saying this but I do not see a good reason for us to inflate the bid for the New Zealand free-to-air rights with taxpayer funding when there is no beneficiary other than the Rugby World Cup and the International Rugby Board, and, to be a little bit fair, the New Zealand Rugby Union, by way of the dividend that comes back from the Rugby World Cup, will get a little bit of additional funding as a result of this bid going in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EBut what person in this House thinks that a single household will buy a set-top box to watch this event if it does not already have one? People can watch it on Sky. They can watch it on any of the 19 big screens that will have live broadcasts around the country as it occurs, not slightly delayed. Every match that M\u0101ori Television broadcasts, and the opening and closing ceremonies, will be on either Television One, TV3, or both. So I just ask this question: why would someone who is not already interested in the M\u0101ori language who does not already get M\u0101ori Television, make the investment that will be necessary to get it through this method, and, therefore, what will the return be? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI want to ask some other pretty important questions. Why was it that a Minister\u2014or Ministers\u2014leaked the commercially sensitive documents, or, if not the documents, the amounts, the figures, to the representative of Television New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3d274d5be674319857425075ec58625\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Derek Fox said it was McCully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208f786b5ede74f5396a866b9b32cc78f\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Derek Fox said that it was McCully. We understand the cause of the tension over a period of time between those two. Other people said that it was Bill English, who also had that information. I just want to know what standard of ethics John Key is running in his Government when things that would get people barred as directors for breaching the Securities Act, and probably the Commerce Act, as well\u2014that is another whole set of areas\u2014is something that he will not even ask his Ministers about. I feel sorry for Jonathan Coleman because he did not know whether he had leaked it when he was interviewed by TV3. We are told by the documentation\u2014and he can say that I am wrong\u2014that he never knew and that his office was not given those figures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3f611c294304d42ba5ed121cef47cf9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: We were.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa58e9a4b13c4a23ac7eb2c31b57635a\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, they were given them. Oh, I am sorry, they were given the figures! They were; he has nodded. So there is another possibility\u2014that in fact when he was confused, he might have been right and he had leaked them. Of course, we know that Mr Brownlee had the figures as well. I am not sure whether Mr Brownlee would know how to pass them on to Television New Zealand or even how to work a cellphone to get the number of the particular person who, when the evidence all comes out, will make it clear which Minister it was who gave him those figures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI ask the Prime Minister what process he has in place to make sure that members who have conflicting portfolios manage those conflicts properly. Pita Sharples is the Minister of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri and he is the Minister in charge of the M\u0101ori Television Service. When Labour had those conflicts, it would always delegate to another Minister one or other of those roles. That is the proper way of doing things. It makes sure that there is accountability. If we had a Cabinet paper, we had two names on it: one being the Minister who is generally responsible for both, and the other to whom there had been a delegation, in order to make sure that proper transparency and accountability was there. But we heard that for months and months Pita Sharples was playing both sides of that road, and that is not good enough. Just because he is new, just because he is outside Cabinet, and especially just because he is from the M\u0101ori Party, none of those are good enough reasons\u2014none of them\u2014for having a lack of accountability in that area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe other question I ask is what will happen to Murray McCully. Is he to be allowed to do what he did to Leith Comer and get away with it? Is that a new standard for treating chief executives? And, by the way, while he is at it, why does he, along with Gerry Brownlee, not focus a little bit on how all the leverage from the Rugby World Cup is slipping out of our hands, and how there is not a proper programme in the United Kingdom associated with the All Blacks tour this year to encourage businesses to have their conferences in New Zealand during the Rugby World Cup. Why can we not have the UK taxpayers subsidise through tax deductibility their conferences, their meetings, in New Zealand, and, at the same time, boost sales to the Rugby World Cup, and especially high-end hotel sales? But there is no promotion happening there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EBy the way, what is happening as far as the volunteers are concerned? Have members opposite been told\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022febacd9c11604fb286c75e8e69b47b8f\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: How wide is this? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251e3fdcbf0c140f2bac2877415db5146\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I tell that member that it is not nearly as wide as he is, or his speech. What is happening with the volunteers? We have two volunteer programmes. We have a volunteer programme for the Rugby World Cup and we have a volunteer programme for Murray McCully\u2019s tourism group. People who are volunteering now for McCully\u2019s programme think they are volunteering for the Rugby World Cup but they are not, because McCully cannot agree on the branding. People are answering the website, they are volunteering in droves, they think they will get a Rugby World Cup T-shirt, but they will not. They will not get it, and the reason for that is that Gerry Brownlee, the Minister for Economic Development, and Murray McCully have not got their acts together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d074d630fce84c58a413240f63696543\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d074d630fce84c58a413240f63696543\u0022\u003EHon JOHN CARTER (Minister of Civil Defence):\u003C/span\u003E We are all going to get to see the rugby. Let us move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u002202d00bf123fa4399b269b7a4b1aa2a2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202d00bf123fa4399b269b7a4b1aa2a2d\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I guess the question that is posed by this debate this afternoon is whose ministerial career is going to be the most damaged by the debacle we have seen over the last fortnight, involving the free-to-air coverage of the Rugby World Cup. There are no less than seven Ministers, including the Prime Minister, involved. No one has been in charge. No one has been looking after taxpayers\u2019 interests. No one has actually been ensuring that this nation gets the best from the coverage of an event to which taxpayers are contributing hundreds of millions of dollars. It is almost at the point where New Zealand On Air might fund a soap opera entitled \u201CWho is in charge of the Rugby World Cup?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EToday in the House we have seen the unedifying spectacle of the Leader of the House, for the second time in a week, being caught short on his knowledge of what is actually transpiring in Cabinet in relation to the Rugby World Cup. Today he attempted to deny that in fact the Government had made the decisions it made only yesterday in Cabinet. We have to ask what on earth the Minister has got the delegation for, in relation to the associate Rugby World Cup portfolio that involves \u201Cgeneral assistance in the portfolio\u201D, if he does not know what the heck is going on. How is he exercising that responsibility as a Minister in that portfolio? Is this job simply a photo opportunity when it comes to the Rugby World Cup, or is he actually doing some work in relation to that portfolio? Last week he was attempting to deny that Television New Zealand (TVNZ) had been given the indications of funding by this Government to counter-bid against M\u0101ori Television. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe second Minister in the line-up of those who have failed to deliver in respect of this imbroglio is the Minister of Broadcasting, Jonathan Coleman. I do not think we have ever seen a situation quite like this. This Minister has been badly damaged by the outcomes of the last week. Questions are being asked, for example, by M\u0101ori Television\u2019s Chief Executive, Jim Mather. When have we ever seen a chief executive in the State\u2019s indirect employ even challenging a Minister\u2019s veracity publicly on no less than three counts? Who publicly has said that the option of funding TVNZ was basically throwing M\u0101ori Television the crumbs, and that the bid by TVNZ was being structured to be wholly untenable and unattractive to M\u0101ori Television? I ask members to look at the column last weekend by Deborah Coddington, a well-known friend of this party, who said that the broadcasting Minister Jonathan Coleman has to have serious questions asked of him, as \u201CMr Haughty\u201D, trotting down the corridor looking like a possum caught in the headlights when asked whether he had tipped off TVNZ about M\u0101ori Television\u2019s bid. I ask the Minister, if he is going to take the call, to answer the question\u2014not to repeat the possum performance but to tell us the truth: what happened, and what was given to TVNZ by way of information, because the House and the nation deserve to know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003ELet us look at the track record of Pita Sharples, the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs. He has come out of this proclaiming \u201Cpeace in our time\u201D, waving the piece of paper saying that M\u0101ori Television is covered in glory by the announcements of yesterday. In fact it is a face-saving scenario, attempting to extract the best possible face and mana for the M\u0101ori Party. But the whole thing has damaged its credibility, not only in the eyes of the general public but, I think, also amongst M\u0101ori as well. Its members have put a very brave face on the announcements of yesterday. But if M\u0101ori Television is going to be the lead broadcaster in an event of the size and scale of the Rugby World Cup, that actually means one has a few more rights than other broadcasters that are involved. M\u0101ori Television has emerged from that, sadly, with that kind of outcome. So we had had Dr Sharples, I think, actually probably threaten to pull the M\u0101ori Party out of the coalition last week to extract the sort of outcome we had announced last Wednesday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI will also talk about the Prime Minister\u2019s role in this. What an irony for Simon Bridges to suggest that John Key comes out of this showing first-class leadership. My goodness! If this is first-class leadership, I would hate to see him exercise third-rate leadership, because he has scrambled to try to find a solution to this, in what has been an evolving fiasco of extraordinary proportions. He has acknowledged that. In the considerable understatement of last week, he said that Ministers needed to take a fair share of responsibility for what transpired. Now he is announcing that he is pleased with the outcomes. Obviously, Dr Sharples is delighted with the outcome, and of course they will maintain that this is a good outcome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EBut this is not the first shambles and it will not be the last, because this Government\u2019s hands-off policies on broadcasting have been exposed for what they are. Let us accept that broadcasting cannot be left alone to the vagaries of the market. Let us have some leadership from the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7d8fab744ad4b178270368fdb470898\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7d8fab744ad4b178270368fdb470898\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Minister of Broadcasting):\u003C/span\u003E Well, that was a bit like being savaged by a dead sheep. It is no wonder that the Labour members do not like it if that guy, Brendon Burns, asks a question in question time. I ask members whether they know who asks all the broadcasting questions. It is Pete Hodgson. I think we have seen a pretty good demonstration of why that happens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EI will briefly expand on the speech of the member the Hon John Carter. It was a good speech. It was very succinct. But, basically, I say the people of New Zealand are completely happy, because they will get to watch the rugby free to air. The members opposite do not get it; they do not get what is important to New Zealanders. I can tell members that all the stuff that Mr Burns was going on about is very important here in Wellington. It creates a lot of activity, and people get very excited about it. But do members know how many emails I have received about this issue? Two, and they were both from people who said they were very, very happy that they will be able to watch the rugby free to air. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EI must say that Prime Minister John Key has put together a fantastic deal for New Zealanders. It is not surprising that he has taken National to 60 percent in the polls. Meanwhile, where is Phil Goff? He is at 6.2 or 6.1 percent\u2014something like that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EI will tell members what was quite interesting about Trevor Mallard\u2019s speech. I was at a function a few weeks ago, and many of the Opposition members would have been there as well. There are 2 years to go until the Rugby World Cup, and Trevor Mallard got up and said he was not going to politicise the Rugby World Cup. He said Labour was right behind the Government in wanting it to be the massive success for New Zealand that it should be. But what is the Labour Party doing? At every opportunity that it gets, it talks down the Rugby World Cup. It wants the Rugby World Cup to be a failure. We heard that from Trevor Mallard. That is completely unpatriotic talk. We also heard that from Brendon Burns. All that the Labour members want to do is to pick holes in the Government\u2019s performance, and they are not getting behind this event. They are not acting in a New Zealand manner, and, quite frankly, that is being reflected in the polls. What the members opposite do not get is that people want them to get behind the Government and support the Rugby World Cup. I can tell members that Labour can talk all it likes about where information came from, but the reality is that what was happening was well known out there in the market place. Mr Mather, a man who was very keen to stand for the Labour Party, was telling all and sundry what he and the M\u0101ori Television Service would do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EI think we now have a great situation. We have had National working together with the M\u0101ori Party. It is true that in any relationship things will happen, but the overall relationship between the two parties is very, very strong. We have put together a deal that works for M\u0101ori, for the M\u0101ori Television Service, and for all New Zealanders. I am sure the Labour Party will want to support us in this. We can all look forward to a fantastic 2011 Rugby World Cup, which will be seen free to air throughout New Zealand. We are delivering a good thing. Roll on the rugby!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228b3d3551bbde4747b00cbede29f47030\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222ff2ba33859540789a05ca647f4b6f37\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002204edafbfed1a4699b19f4f48798750f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204edafbfed1a4699b19f4f48798750f9\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That urgency be accorded the first reading of the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill; the passing through their remaining stages of the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill, the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill, the Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill, the Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill, the Domestic Violence (Enhancing Safety) Bill, and any bills into which any of those bills may be divided; and the introduction of Government bills. This motion is moved in order to gain extra sitting hours to enable the House to consider a number of bills that members of this House and outside groups have indicated they are keen to see passed as rapidly as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002293347bd462694675b0a89884b0594d25\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That urgency be accorded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d6956e9f040045d6b79ddccdb0a93372\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002249d0194bb561486b85893414dcef72a3\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022e989881bb5a344688b63a14255438e03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e989881bb5a344688b63a14255438e03\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for there to be a question time at 2 p.m. on Wednesday, 21 October, notwithstanding urgency, and for questions to be lodged in the normal manner, pursuant to Standing Order 372.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227285aa6947a4479bad64b12903e3ecb\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002217043582b6554f219c4e8161f1efa8a2\u0022\u003ESubordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dbbe616e459a415db5ba24d750a1c14c\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002232a8a0aa0a6a4d6a85f219dc5769688a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232a8a0aa0a6a4d6a85f219dc5769688a\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill be now read a first time. This legislation happens on an annual basis. It is, in fact, designed to bring together a number of matters that need to be dealt with by the House by way of confirming or validating provisions of other bills and regulations. At the conclusion of the first reading debate I will move that the bill be referred to the Regulations Review Committee, with an instruction that the bill be finally reported to the House by 23 November 2009. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThis is a routine annual bill to confirm and validate items of subordinate legislation that, in accordance with the confirmation and validation provisions of the Acts under which the various instruments are made, lapse at stated times unless earlier validation is achieved by Act of Parliament. This is what we are setting out to do. This year, the bill provides for Parliament to confirm, or validate and confirm, 20 Orders in Council and one set of regulations made under 10 separate Acts. To avoid the subordinate legislation lapsing, this bill must be enacted by the end of 2009. The report-back date of 23 November will allow time for the select committee to receive explanations on the contents of the bill from the departments that administer the various orders and regulations, while still leaving time for the bill to be passed through its remaining stages before the end of the year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ETwo of the 13 Orders in Council apply to movements of consumer price indexes and relate to the Social Security Act and to New Zealand superannuation and the war pensions of New Zealanders, effective from 1 April 2009. There are several Orders in Council made under the Customs and Excise Act 1996. Three of these Orders in Council involve rates of excise and excise-equivalent duties, with two applying movements in the CPI to duties on alcohol and tobacco products and one providing for an increase in the duty on motor spirits. Another three of the orders under the Customs and Excise Act continue prohibitions regarding the import and export of toothfish, and the importation of specified offensive weapons and motor vehicles with inaccurate odometer readings, or, in fact, no odometer at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe seventh Order in Council under the Customs and Excise Act continues export prohibitions of specified goods such as unprocessed pounamu, which is also known as greenstone, and all toheroa, and introduces controls on the electronic transfer outside of New Zealand of specified software and technologies and of goods and technologies that may be intended for end-users contrary to New Zealand\u2019s interests. These Orders in Council are made under the Tariff Act 1988. One of these restructures the breakdown of the tariff relating to certain alcoholic beverages. The other two remove or reduce tariffs, and make changes to the new biofuels tariff structure as a result of the New Zealand - China Free Trade Agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESeven of the Orders in Council deal with commodities levies. Six of these replace similar Orders in Council and impose levies relating to milk solids, non-proprietary and uncertified herbage seeds, passionfruit, satsuma mandarins, summer fruit, and wheat grain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edfa770fca234b719ec2ddb97411b629\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the difference?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac5a4c0ee95c41df9f6eb45c59121325\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Taste. These Orders in Council are voted on by the respective industry participants themselves. Each levy is payable to the industry organisations in order to finance activities of benefit to the industry. One of the Orders in Council made under the Wine Act 2003 also provides a commodity levy in relation to non-grape wines. One set of regulations covered by the bill is made under the Animal Products Act 1999. Amongst other things, it increases the export processing levy on lamb, bobby calves, goats, sheep, cattle, and horses, and before my learned friend asks the question, again it is a matter of taste. Only the aspects of the regulations imposing levies are confirmed by this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EFinally, one of the Orders in Council increases certain rates of road-user charges under the Road User Charges Act 1977. I commend the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u00223249b4d9710543d0b1b17a7360b67099\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223249b4d9710543d0b1b17a7360b67099\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Opposition will be giving its full support for the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill. As Mr Brownlee has said, this is a bill that is required once or so a year in order to give effect to regulations that would otherwise lapse. The general policy statement in the bill reads: \u201CThe bill confirms and validates certain subordinate legislation that, in accordance with confirmation and validation provisions in the Acts under which it is made, lapses at a stated time unless earlier confirmed or validated by Act of Parliament.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThis is a technical measure. It will be referred to the Regulations Review Committee, as is proper, to make sure that the respective clauses do indeed set out to do what the House requires. We will be supporting its passage through the House this afternoon. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u00226d10cfbddcb94f84814767c6e1c8afc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d10cfbddcb94f84814767c6e1c8afc1\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E The Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill is the type of bill that is probably of most interest to lawyers. In essence, this bill is all about confirming or validating specific orders and regulations. It is often all about the issue of timing: without the passage of further legislation, the provisions of certain subordinate legislation would no longer be valid. Today\u2019s bill is a mixed bunch, in more ways than one. There are orders to amend the commodity levies for passionfruit, summer fruit, and satsuma mandarins. There are prohibition orders around exports and imports, around toothfish and tobacco, and a set of fees, charges, and levies around animal products. There is an indexation for alcoholic beverages, and the non-grape wine levy. In short, there are all the ingredients here for a party, and I am not talking about a party of the political variety. This is where the M\u0101ori Party has a particular interest in the regulations and validating provisions that are under debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003ELet me look in particular at the impact of this legislation on the excise duties for tobacco products. I have spoken before in this House about the concerns I have around the overuse and misuse of substances such as alcohol and tobacco. I come to this from a number of sources. As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints I am of course influenced by the Word of Wisdom code of health that we practise, which tells us to avoid substances such as tobacco and alcohol. It is a personal position that sits very comfortably alongside the policy position we are advocating within the M\u0101ori Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe facts are overwhelming. Just a month ago the Ministry of Health told the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee that M\u0101ori women have the highest prevalence of smoking of any group, at 49.3 percent, followed by M\u0101ori men at 41.5 percent. The ministry also reminded the committee that young M\u0101ori are more likely to smoke than other young people, and that second-hand smoke exposure is higher amongst M\u0101ori than non-M\u0101ori. As a walk amongst our family urup\u0101 would tell us, tobacco is the leading cause of preventable death amongst M\u0101ori and is known to cause cancers, heart disease, strokes, and respiratory illnesses. Of course, it is not just those with a cigarette in their mouth who have a problem. Tobacco products also harm non-smokers through exposure to second-hand smoke. Ministry of Health statistics show that smoking is a major issue for M\u0101ori in terms of health, equity, economic status, and cultural identity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EGiven all of that, the M\u0101ori Party is delighted to support the amendment in this legislation that makes a CPI inflationary increase to the rates of excise and excise-equivalent duties on tobacco products. This means that the annual adjustment in the excise duty on tobacco will ensure that the excise duty proportion of the price of tobacco does not become cheaper over time, in real terms. In plain English, tobacco products will not become cheaper to consumers, in real terms, as their income levels rise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe House will be aware that the M\u0101ori Party has successfully negotiated a select committee inquiry into the impacts of smoking on M\u0101ori. That inquiry will review the historical actions of the tobacco industry, which promoted tobacco use amongst M\u0101ori, and it will note the impact of tobacco use on the health, economic, social, and cultural well-being of M\u0101ori. The inquiry will address the impact of tobacco use on M\u0101ori development aspirations and opportunities, as well as including a range of policy and legislative measures to address any findings that may come out of that. The M\u0101ori Party will also introduce a member\u2019s bill to ban the importation, manufacture, and sale of tobacco products in Aotearoa. But that is not all that we are doing. My colleague the Associate Minister of Health Tariana Turia is also doing everything possible to invest in the right people, programmes, products, and processes to successfully support our people to quit the deadly habit of smoking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EI wanted to look in some detail at the tobacco products indexation, because I think it demonstrates that subordinate legislation can be of fundamental importance in supporting vital Government activities that must be mandated by legislation such as this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EAnother key aspect of the legislation is the changes to the Social Security (Rates of Benefits and Allowances) Order 2009. The effect of this part of the bill is to make CPI inflationary increases to benefit payments. As the House will be aware, all benefits are indexed for movements in the CPI. This increase is done through the annual general adjustment, which increases benefits, pensions, allowances, and some other assistance thresholds. Some of the increases, such as those to New Zealand superannuation, are due to legislation, whereas others, such as those to core benefits, are done by convention. As I understand it, the CPI increases to benefits were not locked in by the previous Government. We are pleased that the changes are included in this bill, which will ultimately mean an increase in benefits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EAlthough of course we support this increase to benefit payments, the key issue for the M\u0101ori Party is to really understand whether the current level of benefits is sufficient to support wh\u0101nau well-being. The M\u0101ori Party has consistently advocated for benefits to be set at a level that enables families to meet their basic needs, including their housing and food costs. We have been concerned at the way in which low benefit levels are contributing to child poverty and the conditions that thwart healthy child development. We know that benefit levels are too low and are a major contributor to the disturbing levels of poverty. Although we support the changes to the rates of benefits and allowances, we want to place on record again our resounding call, as articulated in our confidence and supply agreement, that we will see what we can do to achieve significant outcomes in wh\u0101nau ora through eliminating poverty and advocating for social justice. Lest this be unclear, I say we expect to see these advances made not just in our lifetime but in the term of this Parliament. There is no time to wait for all people to enjoy the state of well-being that they are entitled to. In respect of this fundamental goal, we support this bill at its first reading. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbc78d2ed9d042169319b516f467019b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbc78d2ed9d042169319b516f467019b\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I will take just a brief call. I note the comments of my colleague Rahui Katene to the effect that this type of legislation is normally of interest to only a particular kind of lawyer. I endorse that comment, and note that I am no lawyer. I express my admiration for her response to that situation, and, indeed, express my support for many of the measures that she advocated in her address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is confronted with a dilemma with this kind of omnibus bill. It covers many measures that we find unobjectionable and support, but several that we oppose. I have taken a brief call just to note that the Green Party is steadfastly opposed to the free-trade agreement with China, and therefore has qualms about that set of provisions in the bill, and also disagrees profoundly with the Government\u2019s approach to biofuels, so has some problems with the provisions of the bill in that respect. In that situation, we have a choice: ought we to oppose the legislation because we oppose some provisions within it, or ought we to support it going to the Regulations Review Committee, while noting our opposition? In this case, we take the latter course and we will support the bill going to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022f42bcaa13f6843bfa18dc7243a6b9f5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f42bcaa13f6843bfa18dc7243a6b9f5e\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Regulations Review Committee consider the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill, and that the committee report finally to the House on or before 23 November 2009.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f96e2ddc2f124a68bf97282b78ae5a5a\u0022\u003ELand Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002271d07fcc0f674d828b89611da42fcd73\u0022\u003EInstruction to Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022691476b455e84ecd9b99e00320ff28a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022691476b455e84ecd9b99e00320ff28a1\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That it be an instruction to the Committee of the whole House on the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill that it have the power to consider and, if it thinks fit, adopt the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 66. I am moving this instruction because the amendments contained in the Supplementary Order Paper concern drug-driving, so are not relevant to the subject matter of the bill, which aims to enhance the powers of the police and road-controlling authorities to deal with illegal street racing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe Supplementary Order Paper implements a commitment I made on 24 June this year when Parliament passed the Land Transport Amendment Bill (No 4). That bill created a new offence of driving while impaired by controlled drugs or prescription medicines in the bloodstream. It also gave the police new powers to enforce that offence. I am pleased to recall that there was a broad display of bipartisanship on that bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EJust before the bill was passed, I was approached by anti - drug-driving campaigners concerned about the exclusion from the bill of the 34 tranquillisers and anti-anxiety medications known as benzodiazepines. The exclusion means that a person who fails the compulsory impairment test and gives a blood sample that contains one or more of those drugs cannot be charged with the new impaired-driving offence. It was too late, by then, to amend the bill, but I agreed that I would have officials look at the issue as a matter of urgency. I promised that if their advice supported the inclusion of benzodiazepines, I would seek to have the legislation amended before it came into force later this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe Ministry of Transport has reported to me that the reasons for excluding benzodiazepines from that bill were weak. Recently published research shows that benzodiazepines can cause impairment in the ability to drive. There is also evidence to show that the impairment is linked to dosage and tolerance as experienced by longer-term users. Apparently when the bill was being prepared there were concerns that innocent people who had been prescribed these drugs would be processed by the police. It was feared that this would bring the legislation into disrepute. I am advised that those fears were overstated, and there are several safeguards to prevent such a situation. Only impaired drivers would be stopped and tested, and there is also a legal defence for those who have been prescribed the drug and use it in accordance with medical advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe Supplementary Order Paper also makes a couple of drafting changes to the legislation to simplify and clarify it. The legislation adopts the term \u201Ccontrolled drug\u201D from the Misuse of Drugs Act, but gives it a significantly different meaning. That creates scope for confusion. Further, the interpretation contains separate definitions for \u201Ccontrolled drug\u201D and \u201Cprescription medicines\u201D. These separate definitions are unnecessary, so the two separate items would be replaced by a single term, \u201Cqualifying drug\u201D, with a definition that includes prescription medicine, controlled drugs, and members of the benzodiazepine family. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EImplementing these changes through the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill will enable the amendments to be put in place before the drug-driving legislation comes into force on 1 November. This will simplify the implementation of the new regime. I look forward to receiving support for it from all other parties in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221f8318e92b0f4aafba9f801a98ffbbee\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002219c5e951465f48f7b8bcd6c8a2631edf\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022aff965d1e35443a1ae00da8397e90c82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aff965d1e35443a1ae00da8397e90c82\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I need to have a temporary Speaker. I ask whether Mr Twyford would like to act in the role of temporary Speaker while I go outside the House in preparation for the Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e21462886406486a9dac9a0b90efd5e0\u0022\u003ELand Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002292b19160f490440292c4949ccd16e2d6\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dd3aaa35aff34bfc8ee969326d480b68\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Land Transport Act 1998\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022083e0a9902cd4b10bd2ecba2a2cb6656\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022083e0a9902cd4b10bd2ecba2a2cb6656\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call on Part 1 of the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill. Labour supports this part, although, as we have said before, we have serious concerns about the expectation raised by the amendments in this part among the communities that have been suffering harm from illegal street racers. We also have some concerns, which we have expressed, about its companion legislation regarding vehicle confiscation and seizure. However, we believe that this bill has some useful powers that will enhance the ability of enforcement officers to deal with the menace of illegal street racing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EPart 1 is the guts of the bill, and its measures aim to reduce the harm and nuisance caused to the community by illegal street racers in terms of road safety, noise, public nuisance, and disorder. The bill strengthens the power of the police, local authorities, and other road control agencies to deal with boy racers and their antisocial behaviour. As I said, we have concerns, and I will get into those. But I reiterate that we have enormous sympathy for those submitters and the other people who are suffering from the harm caused by illegal street racers. I refer particularly to those who came to the select committee to talk about the measures in Part 1, the residents of the so-called four avenues of Christchurch who described to the committee the recurring nightmare of the congregation of boy and girl racers in and around their streets, with noise, drunkenness, and bad behaviour disturbing their sleep. Anyone who has had occasional experiences of loud parties, or cars going up and down their street, will have some idea of how the heart sinks when the noise starts up, and how the deep bass of the music or the noise of the revving car going past seems to get into one\u2019s bones, and one has to steel oneself for yet another sleepless night. For me, fortunately it happens only occasionally. For those residents who submitted to the select committee, it is occurring every Friday and Saturday night. It is awful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe bill does indeed give police more powers, but the question yet to be answered\u2014and I ask the Minister in the chair, the Hon Steven Joyce, whether he might want to respond to this\u2014is whether the police having those extra powers means that they will be accompanied by additional resources. What will the Government put in place to make sure that all of the powers in Part 1 can indeed be resourced properly by the police so they can do their job? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EOne of the things in Part 1 that I want to talk a little bit about is the definition of \u201Ccruising\u201D in the interpretation clause. This attracted quite a lot of attention in the select committee. People were confused about the clause and had concerns about it, and many of the submitters made suggestions about how we could change it. I still find it quite bizarre that Parliament seems to be adopting a street language term. When I look at the plain meaning of \u201Ccruise\u201D, it means coasting, going on a journey, gliding, speeding, going on a tour, or going travelling. The only time I have heard of \u201Ccruising\u201D is in relation to illegal behaviour by street racers. Probably earlier in our day cruising meant that men got in their cars\u2014look at Mr Mallard; he knows all about it\u2014and crawled along the kerbs of the streets trying to pick up chicks. That was what they were trying to do. I want to know why the Government has decided to adopt street language and to use the term \u201Ccruising\u201D, which I would be worried about because it might just encourage the boy racers and the not-so-young men racers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAlthough the select committee did propose some amendments to the definition of cruising, surely driving backwards and forwards over the same stretch of road is just as much \u201Ccruising\u201D as repeatedly driving over the same stretch of road in the same direction. Labour wants some clarity in this area. It seems pretty stupid as it stands, and we do not want a law that gives racers the ability to thumb their noses at police officers by saying they are driving backwards and forwards, rather than in a circle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdeb6d88796b4e598729a1577a39378f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdeb6d88796b4e598729a1577a39378f\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I will take just a brief call on the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill. This bill is one that many people around the country have been looking forward to for a long time. It will be something for which the Government will take a lot of credit, in being able to work towards providing some solutions to the many New Zealanders who feel their lives are intruded upon by those who engage in activities that predominantly disrupt their nights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI thank the Labour members of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee for the way they worked on this bill. It was a committee that worked well. Even though there may have been some disagreements and different points of focus, the committee members worked well together, and constructively, to get the best result for New Zealand\u2019s residents, so I say thank you to those members who did that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263b8b30d715448b692ee8bf9892302bd\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, there\u2019s more?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022441e9b33e6b6434383e0f7452821752e\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there is more. I say to the member across the Chamber that I am sure there will be more from his electorate, as members of the Canterbury community will take great delight in seeing this bill go through the Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ELet us look at some of the key concepts of this bill. In Part 1, the definition of \u201Ccruising\u201D is an important definition. There is also quite a focus on by-laws as a mechanism to achieve the goals that have been seen to be needed, in regard to the ability to control activities in these circumstances. There is also a lot of talk about closing some of the loopholes that may have existed in the past, which may have been used by drivers to avoid the full force of the law. Those measures are predominant in this part. There are prohibitions on the sale and disposal of motor vehicles to close the loopholes that were being used in the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EOverall, Part 1 is quite a substantive part. It covers the major concepts of the bill, which both major parties will be supporting, and which reflects the community\u2019s desire to have real action on this issue. We congratulate the Minister of Transport on bringing that action forward at a time when the public desires it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022876c7bd2da934717b7a1a8345d50071c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022876c7bd2da934717b7a1a8345d50071c\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I join other members in stating that the Labour Party will support the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill, as we have said in the past, but we will raise a number of issues. I congratulate the Minister of Transport on the way he has managed this legislation. Unlike his counterpart Judith Collins, this Minister has been rather considered in the language he has used and the expectations he has raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8f3c6f7082549ca938c14f183b477cd\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s the Minister of Transport, that\u2019s why. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee32eeeb0a5147ff983e105c38c0a5e2\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: It should not really matter what portfolio one has, I would have thought. What matters is the substance of one\u2019s argument. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EOn the issue of benzodiazepines, Labour will support those measures. There is some merit, I think, in what is being proposed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI want to concentrate on a couple of things that were raised by my colleague Darien Fenton. The first is one of police resourcing. Everybody agrees that this issue of street racing is a pretty ugly issue around the communities. There is a bit of a myth perpetrated by some that it is related to Christchurch, maybe Hamilton, and one or two other places around New Zealand, and that everybody else is immune. I recall that when I launched the legislation that I introduced to the House, I launched it in Hamilton because on the main drag of Hamilton\u2014I cannot recall the exact\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022198edcdc5e394cd381d2cd8449d62c6d\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Te Rapa straight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022776d5c002e534704b0018d3fac43f220\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I am indebted to the member. Te Rapa straight had become a drag-strip and \u201Chell on earth\u201D, as one motelier described it for me. We support these measures, but there is an issue around police resourcing. It is OK to put forward ideas and to write legislation, but the question then is how one will enforce it, and whether police will have the means necessary to do so. A large amount of money, several million dollars, has been taken out of the road patrol budget. We know that there has been a requirement for a $21 million cut in police resources, even though the Minister, Judith Collins, denies it. We have a document from the district commander for Canterbury, Dave Cliff, in which he notes that fact, and we have the transcript where the Commissioner of Police alludes to it. We know that 340 vehicles, or around 10 percent of the police vehicle fleet, are gone. We also know that despite the promises made by the Minister of Police, a large number of front-line vehicles are in that fleet. If an officer ain\u2019t got a car, it is pretty difficult to chase down some of the people who are perpetrating these crimes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI note from Supplementary Order Paper 78, which the Minister of Transport has introduced, that he has brought in measures where, as I understand it, a car can be seized if, basically, someone does a runner from police. I support that, but the question is whether vehicles will be available to enforce it. We know, for instance, that a large number of front-line cars have been removed from the fleet. Police themselves have said that to me directly. Police themselves have scratched their heads and said that every car in the vehicle fleet is a front-line car, whether it be for youth education, community policing, youth aid, or patrol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn fact, I was sitting in Belfast in my mobile electorate office bus some weeks ago, holding a clinic, when a highway patrol officer, I will not say who, pulled up behind me. I knew I had not committed a crime, because the keys were out of the ignition and she was stationary. He called me over and looked around\u2014he did not want to be seen too quickly talking to a Labour MP, because he knew the National Party bosses would be after him. I said to him that it was great that he had a vehicle. He said\u2014and this was some weeks ago\u2014that the highway patrol car, which was a brand-new Holden and was badged up and designed to chase down people who were speeding, was \u201Cgone\u201D. I asked him what he meant by \u201CIt\u2019s gone\u201D. He said \u201CIt\u2019s gone. It\u2019s being taken away.\u201D The Minister of Police and, I believe, the Minister of Transport, told Parliament repeatedly that any cuts in the vehicle fleet would not be from front-line resources. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI make the point to the Minister that although we support the bill, legislation is only as good as the way it is implemented by the courts. In fairness I do not think that the courts have used in the past the strength and powers that they have to enforce existing legislation. That is to their detriment, and certainly it is to the detriment of communities. But, equally, if police do not have the resources in respect of vehicles, they will not be able to implement this legislation to the satisfaction of Parliament or of the communities. That is no disrespect to them. Sadly, the men and women in blue, as is starting now and has already happened over the last few weeks since the vehicle fleet was cut, are starting to get it in the ear from the public when they cannot turn up to enforce the laws of the land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EEven in my patch we have already had people complaining. Two people in my patch discovered a burglar and asked for police assistance. They could not gain that assistance in what they felt was a reasonable time, and they were disturbed about that. I do not blame the police in my area\u2014this is in respect of Papanui and Redwood. They are sound human beings and highly professional. But the truth is that we know that in Canterbury alone, 32 vehicles have gone. That is from the district commander, Dave Cliff. He says that 32 vehicles have gone. They are out\u2014gone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe know there are difficulties\u2014because police have told us\u2014in the shift changes. When one is waiting for a vehicle and for the next shift to come along, crime does not just stop at the end of the shift. The job has to be dealt with. Officers are waiting for up to 2 hours, I am told, to get access to a vehicle on a shift change in order to implement legislation like this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI will also touch on the definition of \u201Ccruising\u201D. One of the things I was concerned about when my legislation was passed was that some innovative person who had committed an offence would go to court to contest one of the definitions\u2014say, for instance, the sustainable loss of traction\u2014and a judge who, quite rightly, is charged with interpreting the definitions of that legislation might depart from Parliament\u2019s intention and make a different ruling or water down those clauses. In talking to the police, one of the difficulties I have with this is that the police have said they are not quite sure how they will be able to be enforce the definition of \u201Ccruising\u201D as it sits in the legislation. This is not a political dig at the Minister in the chair, the Hon Steven Joyce, because I think this is a very, very difficult issue to try to write into legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWhen 300 or 400 hoons are cruising, to use the term, around Cathedral Square in Christchurch, which is in my patch, they might be driving at the speed limit, they might be legally licensed and registered, and the drivers might well be, and probably are, sober, but they are making one heck of a nuisance of themselves. But if we look at the definition, we see that it could be interpreted in Christchurch as looking for a car park. A member of a vintage car club said to me that that is what vintage car drivers do. They get in their vintage cars and go cruising. They do it legally; they do not make a nuisance of themselves. So although, in fairness, I congratulate the Minister on making a decent effort to try to crack the nut of the definition of that behaviour, I am concerned that if this is put to the test, a court may indeed reinterpret the word in a way where innocent folks who are not part of this sort of behaviour get done over. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESome young people are car enthusiasts. They call themselves boy or girl racers, but they do not actually break the law. They do not do the sort of stuff that upsets our communities. A group of them came to see me in my electorate office and said they were car enthusiasts who had put a lot of dough into their cars. They go to Colombo Street and sit on the side of the road. They do not leer it up, they do not speed, and they do not make a noise, but they just sit there and they show off their vehicles and what is under the hood, as is a time-honoured tradition between young men and women. They brag about and have pride in their vehicles, and that is OK. But one woman made the point to me that they are treated the same way by the cops as the hoons who stuff it up for the rest of them. She conceded that that is a difficulty for the police, because they cannot differentiate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe point I make to the Minister\u2014and I would be grateful if he could perhaps give us some legal assurances\u2014is to ask how confident he and his officials are that the definition of \u201Ccruising\u201D will be able to be enforced. I also ask whether his legal officials have given him any idea as to whether the definition is likely to be tested in a court. If it is, I ask what the likelihood is in various scenarios of the definition being watered down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI tell the Minister that we support the legislation. We think it has merit and some strong provisions, unlike the companion legislation put forward by Ms Collins. Now that we have seen the detail of that bill, we view that bill as a weaker bill in respect of third parties than is the case at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI would also be grateful if the Minister could perhaps give us a reassurance on the issue of police resourcing. We were given commitments in this Parliament that of the 340 vehicles, no front-line vehicles would be lost. The Minister of Police said she envisaged that it would be vans going. I will tell that Minister what the problem with that is. In Rangiora the youth aid officer now drives a van. It is called a police prison van, because he had his youth aid vehicle taken away from him. I suspect he will find it rather difficult running around catching crims who may break the law in respect of this legislation, in a big hulk of a police prison van. The Minister of Police said that that would not happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3694ed88d2f46ca9001997b70c13ce5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3694ed88d2f46ca9001997b70c13ce5\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I will make just a couple of comments in response to previous speakers. Firstly, with regard to police enforcement of the proposed new law, the police budget for road policing has been increased by 16 percent over the next 3 years\u2014as opposed to what happened during the last 3 years\u2014subject to agreement between the police, the New Zealand Transport Agency, and the Minister. That agreement will allow the police to enforce the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill and to go about the rest of the road-policing programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe second point I will make in respect of enforcement is that one of the points of this legislation is to provide the police with sharper tools, so that things, and perhaps boy racers, stay where they are put. It tries to address, and I think it will go a long way to addressing, operational issues that have arisen from previous legislation. We went to Christchurch, sat down with police, and got their opinions on measures relating specifically to illegal street racing. We then had good discussions with transport officials, justice officials, and members of the police in Wellington about the approaches that would make a difference. The result, in the transport sense, is this bill. It has a total of 15 changes, and includes such things as demerit points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EIn terms of the definition of \u201Ccruising\u201D, I think it has been improved by the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. It is now pretty straightforward. I fail to see how somebody parking a car could be caught under that definition. I fail to see how a vintage car enthusiast could be caught under that definition. Of course, the police are not going around hauling people off the streets for the sheer sake and enjoyment of it. The definition states: \u201C\u00A0\u2018Cruising\u2019 means driving repeatedly in the same direction over the same section of a road in a motor vehicle in a manner that\u2014(a) draws attention to the power or sound of the engine of the motor vehicle being driven; or (b) creates a convoy that\u2014(i) is formed otherwise than in trade; and (ii) impedes traffic flow\u201D. It is one of those things that we know when we see it, and we can see it in the four avenues in Christchurch and in Victoria Street in Hamilton on any night of the week. This legislation will give the councils and the police a tool so that they can to work together to get rid of that antisocial behaviour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u002221a88241938044eca2119ed74562325c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221a88241938044eca2119ed74562325c\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Let me join my colleagues in acknowledging the very real problem that so-called boy-racers create for our society. We do not underestimate that problem, which is why we support the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill, albeit with some concerns about particular points. I will address a couple of those points in a minute. Real efforts have been made to address the boy-racer issue, and I particularly acknowledge Clayton Cosgrove\u2019s work in that regard. Real efforts have been made to try to sort out the issue, and I also accept that the Government is trying to deal with the problem further. My concern is that I am not sure whether some provisions in this bill are as improved and as straightforward as the Minister in the chair, the Hon Steven Joyce, has just said. I will talk about those shortly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EBut I also think the real issue that we are trying to address is that of noise. When we listened to the submitters to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee on this legislation, we heard that the things that really came through, when it was all boiled down\u2014and they were probably in this order of priority\u2014were noise, issues around antisocial behaviour, and then issues around road safety. All of the things in this bill are, if you like, proxies for dealing with those particular problems. They do not actually address those problems themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe issue of cruising is a case in point. Part 1 talks about cruising, and I will look at the definition of that term again. The definition of \u201Ccruising\u201D in clause 4 refers to the act of \u201Cdriving repeatedly in the same direction over the same section of a road in a manner that \u2026 draws attention to the power or sound of the engine of the motor vehicle\u2019\u2019 or that \u201Ccreates a convoy that \u2026 impedes traffic flow\u201D. The issue is to do with the phrase \u201Crepeatedly in the same direction over the same section of a road\u201D, which was the change made at the select committee. The Minister said it is one of the improvements to the bill. That is fine, but, potentially, driving backwards and forwards over the same stretch of road raises just as much concern about cruising if the issue is about the sound of the motor vehicle. Many submitters also raised genuine concerns about lawful activities being captured by the definition. Maybe the activity of parking a car is a bridge too far and maybe the Minister is right about that, but other lawful types of activities could potentially be captured. For example, somebody could be taking part in some sort of legitimate convoy, as might happen during an election campaign. Convoys of vehicles go around in that instance. So-called car enthusiasts might go around in their hot rods, and they quite often like to draw attention to the power or the sound of their vehicles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI am a bit concerned when the Minister says we will know a vehicle is cruising when we see it. I am not sure whether that is good law. I am not sure whether we should make it a discretionary thing, whereby the police can say a nice 50-year-old man in his flash hot rod is not cruising, but a 20-year-old in his or her souped-up car\u2014whatever young people drive; a Nissan, or whatever it may be\u2014is cruising. So I do worry about the definition of \u201Ccruising\u201D, and I think there are a number of areas we need to look at. The first of those, as I have already said, is the issue of why driving repeatedly in the same direction is covered, but driving backwards and forwards is not similarly deemed to be cruising. I think that is still an issue. The other issue is the question of legitimate activities. We do not want to have definitions that effectively enable boy racers\u2014I use that term advisedly to include girl racers and everybody else; we know whom we are talking about, as the Minister says\u2014to thumb their nose at the police because the definition allows a great deal of legal debate about what we are trying to capture here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EA significant number of submitters raised their concerns about the definition of \u201Ccruising\u201D. One of the problems was around the committee process itself. These issues were raised, and we had a very good process around the hearing of submissions. I think everybody would agree with that. One could not help but be moved by some of the submissions we heard, and the problems with regard to boy racers became very apparent. But I think the select committee got into a bit of trouble with the really rushed process in the consideration and deliberation phases. These sorts of issues were flagged, but finding solutions to them was done in a very rushed manner. Officials were put under a great deal of pressure to produce answers to questions like the ones I have just raised about the definition and the issue of whether legitimate activities might be captured. The officials were put under a great deal of pressure to come back to us and give us their advice. In respect of the drafting, we were under real time pressures. We were receiving the documentation in very short order indeed. I do worry that the definition of \u201Ccruising\u201D will come back to bite us, if you like, and I really think it is a shame that we did not spend a great deal more time on getting that particular bit right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe way that the \u201Ccruising\u201D definition will be put into place will be by the use of by-laws, so Part 1 of the bill provides for road-controlling authorities to make by-laws. Those by-laws will include ones to specify areas of roading on which cruising can be controlled, restricted, or prohibited, or ones to specify the amount of time that must elapse between the successive times a vehicle can be driven along a section of road before it would not be regarded as repeatedly using the same section of road. I think that is quite an interesting point. One wonders what the science is behind that measure. Will the interval be 1 minute, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, or 15 minutes? The question is really about noise. If the cruising occurs in the middle of the night, regardless of whether it occurs at 5-minute intervals, 10-minute intervals, 15-minute intervals, or 20-minute intervals, arguably it is still equally disruptive. Again I say I do not think we really got our heads around some of these issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe issue of by-laws is interesting. The thing I found fascinating was the number of submissions made by local authorities who did not want to be given the right to make by-laws. Here we were putting up legislation, and most of the local authorities that submitted on the bill said they did not want to have the right to make by-laws, and they thought it was a matter of providing nationally consistent legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI will talk a great deal more about the issue of by-laws and give members a flavour of some of the submissions on the issue of making by-laws. For example, the Waimakariri District Council said there may well be difficulties with the definition of \u201Ccruising\u201D, and particularly with the use of the word \u201Crepeatedly\u201D\u2014that relates to the question I raised about the amount of time\u2014with what we mean by \u201Cthe same section of a road\u201D, and with what we mean by \u201Cdraws attention\u201D. The submitters raised at least three areas of concern around the definition. Mr Parker, from the Christchurch City Council, said the bylaw-making provisions will be ineffective. In fact, the Christchurch City Council opposed their introduction. As an alternative, it suggested having either national legislation that applies to certain roads or legislation that councils can opt into. The council also felt that the definition of \u201Ccruising\u201D may well be ambiguous. We made a change to the definition after the submission period, but I do not think it captured all of those concerns. Dunedin City Council was concerned that legitimate activities\u2014it used the examples of car rallies and Christmas parades\u2014should not be captured in the definition of \u201Ccruising\u201D. The Waitakere City Council thought that the by-law approach may not be effective and could lead to displacement for boy racers. It thought, like one of the other councils, that there needed to be a change to the existing legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI bet that members would be really interested to know what Local Government New Zealand thought about the legislation. It said by-laws will be costly to establish and there is no requirement for councils to implement such by-laws.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u002212c21b799647471db2315d2ba80c1f19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212c21b799647471db2315d2ba80c1f19\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak to the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill. Labour supports the bill. We want to see enhanced powers for the police to deal with the issue of boy racers, and no member of this House knows that issue better than I do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI want to ask the Minister in the chair, the Hon Steven Joyce, the Minister of Transport, a very serious and important question. I have looked through the bill and its accompanying legislation for the commitment that was given by the National list MP Nicky Wagner\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d10eab32d36442008e7aa7c553db95ba\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Who?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c86f3880a73c4574a62ca09315815f90\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: Nicky Wagner; the member may have heard of her. Over the last term of Parliament, she gave a commitment to Christchurch that she was going to deal with the issue of noise. As members are probably aware, there are a few problems created by boy racers, but one of the most persistent, annoying, and vexatious problems to residents is the noise problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7a079e8fe814e9fa2e5055b93e8c312\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Anything in here to solve that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022343564f636e145b28098c0b957dc21b2\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, a number of things were promised in respect of it. A petition and a member\u2019s bill were brought to Parliament to have the noise limit brought back from the excessive maximum level of 95 decibels\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252c5dae597ae40a6a6740f65d06ff916\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: That is in Part 2. We are on Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9c73011b5df4721b1c3c2a9f5071b07\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I would like to pose a question to the Minister in terms of general debate, because the bill deals with the issues created by boy racers. In respect of decibel ratings, why do we not have the measures indicated by the National list MP from Christchurch Ms Wagner? It is important that we know. Is it that the Government does not want to tackle the issue? Is it that it has received advice from officials on it? We have officials present here this afternoon who can perhaps assist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI understand that the Government looked at the issue, and believes that the problem is that if we reduce the maximum noise level to 90 decibels\u2014and this is a matter for the Minister to clarify\u2014then we penalise a lot of people who are not causing a problem. Those who do cause a problem are those who roar up and down Bealey Avenue, Fitzgerald Avenue, and other wide major streets in Christchurch, and, indeed, many other streets of inner-city areas in this country. Those are the drivers who need to be targeted. I think the bill does that, and I acknowledge the Government for that. Obviously, and as noted by the Minister of Police, Judith Collins, these measures accompany and add to measures introduced by the last Labour Government. It is important that we as a Parliament acknowledge the need to deal with the issues created by boy racers. They are a menace and they need a strong response from Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EBut I suspect that the problem that the Government faced was that if it reduced, as had been pledged and promised, the maximum noise level back to 90 decibels, that would impinge upon the rights of thousands\u2014indeed, tens of thousands\u2014of New Zealanders who own a car slightly nosier than 90 decibels. They may, for instance, have saved up and bought themselves a nice V8 Holden and put a fruity exhaust on it. Somebody may have inherited a car with a noisy exhaust system, but is not causing a problem by driving up and down avenues at 2.00 in the morning. It may be that a motor enthusiast has a car configured for racing events, and occasionally takes it on to the street, but is not causing a problem. That is why I would like the Minister to give us some indication as to whether the Government considered those issues in the context of this bill and the accompanying legislation, decided on the matter in hand, and made a considered decision. As I said, we had repeated pledges and promises from a member of this Parliament that when the Government changed, this issue would be dealt with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe past Minister in charge of transport issues, Mr Duynhoven, did address some of the issues, and this bill is building on some of his measures. One of those issues is demerit points. Many, many boy racers do not pay their fines. It is much better to acknowledge the fact that they do not pay fines, will not pay their fines, and sometimes cannot even be forced, believe it or not, to pay their fines. So we are seeing an extension of demerit points. Somebody who owns a $10,000 car fitted out for boy-racer activity really does not want to lose it. Demerit points are important because if drivers lose their licence, lose their insurance, they might still take the risk of driving on the road, but, firstly, they risk the full force of the law being thrown at them for being non-licensed drivers, and, secondly, they will not have any insurance cover. They may at times act like idiots, but they are not all stupid. So I think it is important that we see a continuing ratcheting up of measures such as demerit points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EBut I ask the Minister to explain to us what happened to the issue of noise, because a very considered promise was made by a member of this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee1d524a54bf41a08c2c7507f7d68e4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee1d524a54bf41a08c2c7507f7d68e4a\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I want to return to the issue of cruising, as outlined in Part 1 of the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill. I was a little bit amazed at what the Minister said, and it was noted by Carol Beaumont, that we will know it when we see it. I am not a lawyer and the Minister in the chair, Steven Joyce, I suspect is not a lawyer. I note that Mr Finlayson is here, and he is an eminent lawyer, I am told by some. Others may take a different view, but some say he is an eminent lawyer. I just raise this issue again, but with greater worry. If the Minister is telling us that the legal basis from which either he or the department\u2014I presume it was him\u2014drafted this definition is that we will know it when we see it, then I offer some assistance from our side to the Minister. We have some lawyers over here who might be able to help. That is not how to make law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EAs I turn to the legislation, the concern I had was about the definition of, for instance, \u201Csustainable loss of traction\u201D. We spent quite a bit of time on it. An eminent person\u2014and I better not mention his name because National might hunt him down if it knew he helped me\u2014within the ministry spent a lot of time tightening as much as possible the definition then of \u201Csustainable loss of traction\u201D. I know it might sound stupid to some but I remember quite a bit of fear being expressed by submitters from vintage car clubs and from all sorts of folk, including people taking part in the Christmas parade or other parades, who appeared before the select committee. There was the fear that even though their motives were pure, somehow inadvertently they may fall victim to this issue. There was even a fear that a young person, for instance, who squeaked his or her brakes at the lights, might hear a policeman saying \u201COi, we got you\u201D. I do not take credit for the legal drafting, and others should, but we spent a lot of time tightening the definition of \u201Csustainable loss of traction\u201D, in the hope\u2014which proved to be correct because it was never tested in a court\u2014that a judge would not take a case, make a terminology interpretation, and water it down. It was also to give confidence to those who were not the perpetrators that we were going after that they would not be caught by it. They were the innocent folk. But we are now hearing, regarding the definition, that we will know it when we see it. The Minister shakes his head, but that is what he said. Is he now denying that is what he said? He said it not two or three speeches ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn practical terms, I agree with the Minister that most police, I suspect, will know it when they see it. However, there is the unintended consequence. The definition draws attention to the power or sound of the engine. To what level, I ask the Minister? What is the test? Is it revving up? I suspect it probably is, but to what level? Is it somebody who revs up, and hits the accelerator instead of the brake? Will they be caught by this very non-specific definition? But the Minister says that we will know it when we see it. Maybe we should call this the \u201CYou\u2019ll Know It When You See It Bill\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe bill refers to \u201Cimpedes traffic flow\u201D. What does that mean? Does that mean they drive in a group at 50 kilometres per hour, which is the legal limit, as they do now? What is the difference between that and going around Hereford Street looking for a car park? Normally when I have driven around there at lunchtime on a Friday there are about 300 or 400 folks who are not breaking the law, who are driving legally, who are sober, and whose cars are registered and licensed, engaging in exactly the same activity. Despite the squawks we hear from the back row, I know that the Minister is well intentioned. But the point I am desperately trying to make\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b6557659155421db41503cde5dfed84\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: What? What is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209369e0c99a546c8b594709b095193e2\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not trying to make the point to the thing at the back of the Chamber. The point I am trying to make to the Minister is if this definition is not tight enough\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7203dc21392436f8993216d13df29f5\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Do you support it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a9d5c7a2356424dadf8c6f27ded9cea\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014it may cause an unintended consequence. But equally if it is not tight enough, there may well be a test case where a judge decides to water it down, or alter it in such a way, or let somebody off and sets a precedent. I would be obliged if the Minister could gives us some reassurance or clarify what he meant by saying that we will know it when we see it. If he cannot do that and he is not confident in his own drafting, I ask him perhaps to yield to that eminent lawyer Mr Finlayson, who I think could give us quite a good dissertation in respect of the definitions. He may well be able to give us some assurance. The problem is that this bill is not part of Mr Finlayson\u2019s portfolio, but he is an eminent lawyer. Maybe the Minister could lean across the aisle to him and get him to pass a note to tell him that this is OK. I want to catch these people, just like the Minister does. Christchurch has had a gutsful of it, just like the Minister has, and as have other places. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI think we should have an assurance that this bill will do what we want it to do. Firstly, an assurance that it is strong enough, and, secondly, that it is blunt enough that a judge will not be able to make a strange interpretation of it that will water it down or capture somebody who should not be captured. We will then end up back here a couple of months after that common law precedent goes through, trying to pass amending legislation to get it right. This is not an uncommon practice, and I say this in a bipartisan way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWhen I was Minister for Building and Construction, a judge\u2014I think it was Justice Stevens\u2014altered through a court judgment the compensatory benefits or damages payable to victims of leaky buildings. It was not what the Government\u2014or the Parliament generally, I suspect, as a whole\u2014had intended. On that occasion\u2014and it threw a cat amongst the pigeons\u2014we were advised by our departmental lawyers that it was as tight as a drum, it would be no problem, and it would be OK. From memory we had to suspend Standing Orders, come back, and blast through a bill consisting of three, four, or five clauses, or whatever it was, which I think all parties supported, to correct the record and to stop other members of the judiciary from using that precedent and perpetrating what Parliament did not intend. I think it is a fair question. The Government and we as a Parliament are going to a lot of effort and we are supporting this bill. To clarify it for that person in the back row, we are supporting this bill. But what we want to do is support a bill that gets it right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de2188f70b7a496a90d0ce3b98f560a9\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Sit down and get a move on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286c5ead469cc433884bb5e7eeb09681b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: That sort of inane contribution from the back, which flows like verbal sewage, does not help the matter. If the member wants to make a contribution and help his colleague out\u2014I take it he is not a lawyer either; neither am I\u2014he could get to his feet and make a contribution, rather than making sounds akin to a belching noise down in the back row.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd6b1c52e559467d83f2af1a84f15af2\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that\u2019s unfair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c30999c22c194737a7b7e53521c72c21\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, maybe it is not a belching noise; it could be another emission, but we will not go there. But I reiterate and say to the Minister that I would be grateful if he could readdress the point on cruising. We want to stop the sort of stuff that he is trying to stop in this bill, but I have a fear, based on his own words, which may come back to haunt him, that we will know it when we see it. A test case may be taken and this may be watered down or there may be an unintended consequence. Again I hope that Mr Finlayson, as a lawyer, may decide to take a call and provide us with that reassurance, but I think the Minister is duty-bound to address that issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWhat happens in a political campaign when members of the National Party, as they did on a number of occasions, drive down the middle of roads with loud hailers blaring and flags flying, drawing attention to themselves and the noise of their vehicles? Perhaps they are in a convoy, and perhaps, some would argue, they are impeding traffic flow. Could the Minister tell me whether that would be illegal under this bill? Will that be called cruising? What will the police do in that respect, for instance? What will they do if the cars are decorated, if the horns are sounding, and there might be a truck that has a bit of music playing on the back of it? Is that considered cruising if there are 20, 30, or 50 such vehicles heading down Hereford Street in the middle of an election campaign? I think that is a fair enough question. It probably arises out of self-interest; it probably concerns all of us, I suspect, if we think about it. Will the police take the view: \u201CDon\u2019t worry. The Minister says we\u2019ll know it if we see it. We\u2019ll put a finger in the air and try to define the law.\u201D? If somebody takes a case against the police and embarrasses them as a police force, will the Minister stand up beside them and say: \u201CNo, no. I blew it in the Committee stage because I said you guys would know it if you saw it.\u201D And that is the strength of the legal argument. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI want to get this right. Labour wants to get this right. Labour supports the Government in this, but we would like more reassurance, as would the communities in Christchurch, in Hamilton, in Dunedin, in Auckland, and in other places, that it is right and that when the police do see it, they will have the tools, the power, and the legal definitions to deal to those people. I do not think it is good enough for someone who is collecting a quarter of a million bucks and taking a warrant and the limousine to simply stand up and say: \u201CDon\u2019t worry, she\u2019s right. They\u2019ll know it if they see it.\u201D I think those will be words we will be happy to use at future public meetings when people say that they did not see it, they did not know it, and we are still being harangued from pillar to post by these boy racers. Maybe we should ask Judith Collins in the next round if she takes the same view\u2014that the police will know it if they see it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00224003b4463b264f0f82f67de97bfabe18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224003b4463b264f0f82f67de97bfabe18\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc67733fbec24870a70ef45ebee93c92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc67733fbec24870a70ef45ebee93c92\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to take a reasonably brief call on Supplementary Order Paper 78. I appreciate the Minister\u2019s explanation earlier on, and we support Supplementary Order Paper 78, but I do not want any rewriting of history around it. I am one person who has been on the select committee for the last 4 years and went through the submissions of the submitters\u2014along with David Bennett over there, so I have no doubt he will agree with me on this\u2014and the issue of benzodiazepine was never raised. It was never raised by any submitter, it was never raised by the officials, and we were never advised that it had been considered that it would make the scope too wide; there was never a discussion that I can recall on the issue of benzodiazepine. I want to put that on the record so that nobody thinks that the select committee in the last Government was not being responsible when it came to the implementation of the bill that Supplementary Order Paper 78 is amending. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWe support the amendments on Supplementary Order Paper 78 but we do so with a little bit of caution. The caution I want to sound is that there are some issues around this, and we saw that in the media when it was announced. One of the things that gives me some comfort is the process in the bill\u2014the process of testing whether people have drugs in their blood. If people are driving with drugs in their blood, the testing is for impairment. Also, before testing a driver for impairment, the police must have good cause to suspect that a person has consumed a drug. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EHowever, the caution I would like to put on the record is that the test could be really difficult for some people\u2014older drivers, people who could well have been good, law-abiding citizens all their lives. They could be suspected of having benzodiazepine in their blood, and that could be related to the fact that they were taking it according to a prescription. They would not be prosecuted but they could feel quite aggrieved against the police, so some care in this whole area is required. We accept that it is a problem; we accept and we completely support the previous legislation that Labour introduced, and that this Government passed, around being able to test for impairment when people have been using drugs, and not using them if they are impaired, and around not using them according to the prescription and their doctors\u2019 instructions. Also, quite a lot of information recently from the New Zealand Drug Foundation states that the drug does significantly increase the risk of crashes, and younger users are at higher risk. So, obviously, those drivers need to be intercepted and that is why we are supporting the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAlthough the police can rightfully use this legislation to target drivers taking benzodiazepine, they should be careful that older, bona fide users are not being treated unfairly. We have to approach this with caution, and I ask the Minister to make a comment on whether there are plans for any public education on drug-driving before the legislation is implemented, because that is coming up fast. I ask what the plan is for that, so that people know about it, and they know how to interpret it, if they are taking any medication. All I can say is thank goodness Prozac is not in this list, because half the country is on Prozac, I understand. I would like to be reassured that leading into this legislation with the addition of benzodiazepines, the public is going to be properly educated and prepared for this. I would also like to ask the Minister to make a comment on his other Supplementary Order Paper, Supplementary Order Paper 66, which he has not done. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 66 in the name of the Hon Steven Joyce to Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002247f39a911ef741b98738f00b1d9bb1b7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 117\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 5;.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000474\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 78 in the name of the Hon Steven Joyce to Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000475\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000476\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002280ba8f51165044b7bb3872d6b216dced\u0022\u003EPart 2  Transitional provision and consequential amendments \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002214df7738a88d45638b3d8c99ab0b0817\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214df7738a88d45638b3d8c99ab0b0817\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The debate includes schedules 1 and 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0a77642c35d4f17a8a6406ab8630efc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0a77642c35d4f17a8a6406ab8630efc\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak to Part 2 of the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill and I would like to come back to the issues traversed a little earlier around noise, as correctly configured into Part 2 of the bill. I note that the select committee did consider the 2006 petition from Ms Wagner and 435 others on the issue of the decibel rating. Again, I would like to ask the Minister in the chair, the Hon Steven Joyce, to give us some explanation of the Government\u2019s view on the issue. The Transport and Industrial Relations Committee\u2019s consideration of the issue considered the fact that from 1 June last year all new vehicles entering the road had to meet the 90-decibel test but it also considered that the lowering of stationary tailpipe noise limits would not necessarily reduce vehicle road noise at night. I would like to ask the Minister for some advice on that point, and what the officials are saying in respect of it, because, anecdotally at least, and certainly in terms of the petition presented to Parliament in 2005\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253dc2616694347f1a4c9ba72ad532f77\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: What party was it from?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d56992b83c1c4286927378a8cf822135\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: The National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c25d2dd036024b0db479f2c1fb33da18\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: She got rolled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a91203993a140cc85724c7e164c158c\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, she certainly made lots of noise about the fact that she was going to deal with this issue. I would like to know what the Government\u2019s position on this is. Obviously the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee has formed a view that with the legislation before the select committee, and with the changes introduced by the Hon Harry Duynhoven and the Labour Government to take effect from 1 June last year, maybe this issue has been addressed, but we have to ask seriously whether the police, even with the provisions of this bill and the anti-cruising by-law provisions that the bill includes, will be able to deal with the issue of noise. There is a significant difference in noise between a car at 90 decibels and 95 decibels. Ms Wagner made much of the fact of it being akin to being quite a distance away from a motor mower and being right up alongside a motor mower being revved at full capacity. Certainly, if one is living on Fitzgerald Avenue, the difference between 90-decibel and 95-decibel cars is considerable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EIt is a bit simplistic to say simply that lower stationary tailpipe noise limits would not significantly reduce vehicle road noise. We must take a closer look at the issue of the modification of exhaust systems. Many businesses around the country make a very good living out of taking stock standard noise exhaust systems and tuning them to the point where they can scrape in just a fraction below the 95-decibel recommended maximum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EObviously a huge increase in noise volume is created between 90 decibels and 95 decibels. I really think the Minister needs to address this question. What is the advice from officials on this issue? Do they support the select committee\u2019s view that at 90 decibels, with the measures in this bill, we will see a significant abatement of the noise problem? A lot of the antisocial behaviour centres on noise. I have to confess that it is not just car exhausts. There is a lot of associated noise from people in cars shouting, tooting horns, and so on, but it is the constant roar of the exhausts that causes a lot of stress to people living in urban environments such as in my electorate of Christchurch Central. Promises have been made to Parliament and to voters that National would address the noise issue, and I ask why it is not being addressed in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe select committee has formed the view that maybe the measures in the bill will provide an answer, but I believe that that is a little simplistic. Labour\u2019s position is that we must look at the issue of modification, as there really is a difference between 90 and 95 decibels. I suspect that the position will be\u2014and I would like clarity from the Minister on this\u2014that by reducing the level to 90 decibels we will bring in tens of thousands of other innocent motorists who are not out there causing a problem. If that is the view of the Government, then I would like to hear that. The residents of Christchurch Central, of inner-city Hamilton, and of places like the North Shore, Lower Hutt, and Wellington Central, and elsewhere deserve to know why the Government, having made strong indications to the electorate that it was going to cut\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3dd710dd1244ee9be42628c3da42c17\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Pledges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7e2b3e2f17a43fea659b24e3f29b5fc\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: Pledges, indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299aa3ccaaa594edc9c7cd3feb71a5aec\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Promises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bfb808689fc4c5d811167e991559437\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, promises. Much noise was made about this issue. Public meetings were held. In fact, a website was set up by Nicky Wagner, \u201CStop the Noise\u201D. In fact, I think the website is still up. Maybe it has been turned down a bit of late, but a very high expectation was created by the member that she would deal with this issue. When she stood in Christchurch Central at the last election she told the people of Christchurch Central that she would deliver on this issue. I do not see anything in the bill that will deal with it. The select committee has formed a view, but the Minister is responsible for the bill. He has the benefit of officials and official advice, and he can provide the Committee with an assurance as to what the view of the officials is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253a707264df44ff09c1d3d0fbdb021e5\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us why Nicky got rolled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022992aca19c40644e4b5343c101b37a241\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously she has formed a view that this needed to change, but maybe she does not have any clout within the National caucus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022525ba0ea392849aaab8d83c86efaa595\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s nanny State.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022283893edc9624d078f36cef56146eb59\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it sounds a bit nanny State, does it not? That could, of course, be the other explanation, as the Minister campaigned on the previous Government being a nanny State Government. But we have to acknowledge that the Minister has indicated that he will deal with the issue of cellphones. We are going hands-free a little later in the year. So he is prepared to grapple with some of the tough issues. He is prepared to wear the tag of nanny State from time to time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022267a8bb51407466dad85ee7efd03e0e6\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: But they know best.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275e8ebc22de84e65a0a20a4d3128e00b\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: Clearly, the Government does know best! While we are on the matter of cellphones, we have to ask the question that if we are going to have hands-free for cellphones, then what about global positioning systems (GPS)? A GPS can distract drivers from the issue at hand, whether they are roaring down Bealey Avenue at 100 kilometres an hour on a Friday night or just searching for a further indication of where to go. I would like the Minister to comment on what the advice to the Government from officials has been. Should there be, as Ms Wagner promised the electorates of Christchurch and the nation, a cut in the noise level down to 90 decibels from 95 decibels? There is nothing in this bill on that. The Minister is responsible for this area. He gets the official advice, and he can tell us, should he choose to do so. I think he should let people know, because they have high expectations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EIf the Government does not give us an explanation I will continue to ask these questions. The National Government is now in power and it should tell us, given all the promises and pledges made by Nicky Wagner to Christchurch voters not just at the 2008 election but also in 2005\u2014so it is a repeat promise\u2014that she would deliver on this issue and ensure the noise limits were reduced. She aligned herself with the Noise Off campaign group. She held numerous public meetings and put up a website saying \u201CStop the Noise\u201D, yet the noise will continue under the measures proposed in this bill. The Minister owes the House an explanation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00225a9e8d1891aa4009beacf23655e12a77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a9e8d1891aa4009beacf23655e12a77\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I want to pick up from where Mr Burns left off, because he and I and other colleagues from Christchurch\u2014Lianne Dalziel and Ruth Dyson\u2014face the issue of noise to a huge extent every night in our electorates. I think that Mr Burns in his own diplomatic way was being very generous and diplomatic in respect of Nicky Wagner. I can recall that Kate Wilkinson, Gerry Brownlee, David Carter, and, latterly, Aaron Gilmore, stomped the streets of Christchurch and greater Canterbury, held public meetings, and had petitions on this issue. I say that Mr Burns is a generous soul, but he was far too generous to Nicky Wagner. She pledged, damn near in blood, that change would occur. She lambasted the previous Government, saying that nothing had occurred, that the noise level had not been addressed, and that when she got into Government this would all change. Nicky Wagner presented the petition from her and 435 others to her own party\u2019s majority-run committee\u2014I am advised that the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee has a majority of National members on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMr Burns has referred to Noise Off. I cannot recall the names of the individuals in Noise Off\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268e090f7d007469cacd4326ce4d5188e\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: Jonathan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b3b47cc6a4b4fd5976cab5f4af1b5b5\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure of the surname, but a number of people from Christchurch in a group called Noise Off have campaigned vigorously for a 90-decibel rating, and Ms Wagner was very, very happy to lend her political weight, such as it is, to that group and any other group. Like bees around the honeypot, they clustered around her in support of her position, and I mean no disrespect to those people because we now know that they were hoodwinked\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c53c1b2241640c6981a6fa268f58705\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: They had hope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1f30a9d01114f95983d0fb0697c1bbe\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: My colleague says that they had hope. They were hoodwinked. I would be grateful if the Minister could tell us, or maybe Ms Wagner could tell us, as I am sure she wants to take a call on this issue. She is here somewhere. As a list member from Christchurch who campaigned vociferously on this issue, she will want to question the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022993c6998a6f44ddc9c7d6b9beb8ad795\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: It was a crusade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022874924a91ee84898902be52ce3ed1546\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014it was a crusade\u2014vigorously as to why she was rolled by him, and as to why, when National has a majority on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, her colleagues rolled her on this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ENow it is accountability time. What was said before the election is now being revisited after the election on those who said it. We have people coming to us in our electorate offices saying: \u201CHang on, wasn\u2019t this Government going to do something and bring the noise down to a 90-decibel level? Wasn\u2019t it Nicky Wagner and Kate Wilkinson who said that?\u201D. Ms Wilkinson got up in front of the people of Mandeville in my electorate, a couple of weeks after the election, and said: \u201CIt will all be taken care of. We\u2019re in Government now. This mob is out. We\u2019re going to sort it.\u201D Gerry Brownlee, David Carter, and Aaron Gilmore said the same. Their words have now come back to haunt them, and it would be helpful if those members would tell the people of Christchurch why they let them down, why they promised to do it, and why they pledged to do it. If it was not National Party policy it makes it worse, because those pledges were then made under false pretences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe Canterbury members on this side of the Chamber are making contributions. I invite the National members from Canterbury to ask the Minister why he rolled them, and why the majority National members on the select committee rolled them. Why did they not come clean? They were still promising this days and weeks after the election. But when the rubber hit the road, excuse the pun, and we got the legislation in, why then did the majority of National select committee members\u2014and for those who are listening, I tell them that the majority rules in this place; the party that has the majority on a select committee rules the day\u2014roll their colleagues Nicky Wagner, Kate Wilkinson, Gerry Brownlee, David Carter, and Aaron Gilmore? Why did this Minister basically brush them aside and say \u201CWe aren\u2019t going to have a bar of it.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI think to not acknowledge that noise is a huge part of the problem is to dismiss thousands of people and residents around New Zealand. We heard of St George\u2019s Hospital, I think it was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2cdc02a5554432cb753191bb20864e0\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: Southern Cross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b813084782a432cb083677ba4209615\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Southern Cross, I am sorry, a hospital on Bealey Avenue, which has had to move patients from one side of the hospital to the other. In fact speeches were made about this particular issue by National MPs before the election. They were wringing their hands and saying how awful it was\u2014and it is\u2014and how the Government should do something about it, and that if it did not, they would. Well, they have the opportunity here tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022e70c180ae5dd4b50bae8f4488049e821\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e70c180ae5dd4b50bae8f4488049e821\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Where are the Noise Off people when we need them? Oh, suddenly it is much quieter; that is great. I will make only three points. Of course, the first point to make, to the Opposition member Clayton Cosgrove, is that the previous Labour Government did have 9 years in which to take action on this particular issue, and, finally, just before it left office, it changed the law so that the noise limit for new vehicles entering the fleet would drop to 90 decibels. Of course, at that time the Labour members had the opportunity to set that limit for all vehicles if they felt so inclined, which of course they did not. So that did not happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe second point I will make, perhaps particularly to Mr Burns, is that there is a difference between primary legislation and road rules, and that any change in vehicle noise limits is subject to a road rule, not to primary legislation. Apart from anything else, that is a practical reason why noise limits are not specifically addressed in the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe third point I will make is that the process we are addressing here in the bill is all about tackling the behaviour that creates the noise, as much as we can. We know that successive Parliaments have tried to do that and have had a limited effect, sometimes with more effect than at other times. Tackling the behaviour involves is a combination of changes to the law and operational activity by the police, as well. We are giving the police a tool box under this legislation that we think will make a significant difference. If we are dealing with noise in the avenues in Christchurch, we are dealing with antisocial behaviour by illegal street racers. That is what we are dealing with. We have to deal with that behaviour. The way to deal with that behaviour is to hit those people where it hurts, which is with regard to their licences and their vehicles, and that is what this bill and the companion bill set out to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EI am pleased that Labour is supporting this bill, because it knows that it will have an impact. I think that the sooner we get this legislation passed and the sooner we get it into the Christchurch market place and around other parts of the country, the better we will all be at dealing with illegal street racing and the related noise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u0022102fc1394c37497e900ae6739e41819a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022102fc1394c37497e900ae6739e41819a\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise also to speak in relation to the issue of noise. It came up in the course of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee\u2019s deliberation on the petition of Nicky Wagner. I think there are a couple of points, and they relate to the point I made earlier about the deliberation and consideration phase of our select committee work being very rushed. A number of important issues were raised about lower decibel requirements, and a lot of information was provided by officials in this area, but I do not think we really got to debate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI think it is too simplistic to say that lower stationary tailpipe noise limits will not significantly reduce vehicle noise. I think also that the issue of modification of exhausts is one we need to look at more closely. There are countries, for example, that ban such modifications completely, and some that have lower decibel limits than we currently have. As has already been noted, Labour took action in that regard in its last term in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe area I particularly want to focus on is the fact that the police already have powers to take action in the area of noise under the Land Transport Rule: Vehicle Equipment 2004 and the Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004. We noted that those rules provide the police with a relatively straightforward way of dealing with noise, as long as the police are there. So it is about police resourcing, actually; use of the vehicle rules that I have just mentioned depends on resourcing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EOne of the things I found particularly interesting was that there is very inconsistent usage of those rules around New Zealand. We saw quite a bit of evidence. I will give members some examples. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8f0f1d15b4840ba84a91ba2a868d2f7\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, don\u2019t!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294efbc61665d4833b5a4a4ae9581aaa5\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I am sure that Mr Henare really does want to know these things. If we are taking a holistic approach, we need to look at what is used already. If we looking at noisy vehicles, we see that there were 249 infringements in the Waitamat\u0101 area, whereas in Auckland there were only 15. I do not know; arguably, there are different numbers of vehicles in each area, but both areas are quite large, and it seems to me that that is a major inconsistency. If we go through to Counties-Manukau, we are looking at 82 infringements in relation to noisy vehicles. In the Waikato area we are looking at 111 infringements. On the other hand the Bay of Plenty, which does not have the same population and therefore, one would think, does not have the same number of vehicles as Waikato, had 202 infringements in relation to noisy vehicles. Let us look at the Canterbury area, because it comes up a lot in relation to vehicle noise. In the Canterbury area there were 926 infringements. That is quite a lot of infringements in the area of noisy vehicles. On the other hand, in the southern area there were 147.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EMy point is that there is quite a lot of inconsistency. One of the things that became obvious to us, and the point was made by the police themselves, is that a lot can already be done in relation to this problem. Essentially, the main part of the problem with boy racers is the noise element, and a lot could be done if there were consistent policing across New Zealand. It seems to me that those two rules on noise are not being applied consistently at the moment, and that they may provide a more straightforward way of dealing with it than some of the propositions that are being put up in both the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill and its companion bill, which we will be talking about next.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI go back to the point made earlier that the issue is police resourcing. The utilisation of these provisions requires sufficient police at the right time and in the right place, and that is a problem. It seems to me that it is particularly a problem for us at a point when the Minister is actually cutting funding to the police. Cutting $21 million from the police budget and reducing the number of police vehicles on the roads will make it more difficult, arguably, for the police to use those noise provisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI thought it was important to note that we do have some noise rules that could be a very useful device, but we do not have adequate policing to use them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022faf73a6386e74241a1f5ee0f310fedee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022faf73a6386e74241a1f5ee0f310fedee\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022b743b3cdb5b84aac88725f039e5fad7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b743b3cdb5b84aac88725f039e5fad7d\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I will return to the previous contribution that I made, and base this contribution on some of the comments made by the Minister in the chair, the Hon Steven Joyce. I was quite surprised that in respect of noise, the Minister basically said, as I understand it, he did not believe that the Government should make changes to the primary legislation, but it might set a noise limit through a rule. I say this to the Minister: this is the highest court in the land. This is Parliament. If the Minister is of a mind to, this Parliament can do anything that it likes. He could make changes in respect of the 90 decibel limit in this bill, if he was of a mind to do that. He can do anything that he likes. This Parliament can pass any legislation, saying anything. That is its constitutional power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227abbe320ea924567a5e151a3aab52463\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: Provided they have M\u0101ori Party support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292beff64d42d4e23a03a8aa8d1e033dc\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is another issue. But the Government has the numbers, so it says, in respect of this bill, the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill. If the Minister wanted to do so, he could flick in an amendment or a Supplementary Order Paper\u2014he has done a couple of them, which Labour supports\u2014to change this bill. But he chooses not to do that. I suppose that in the first part of this bill it was a case of \u201CThey will know it if they see it.\u201D, and in the second part it is a case of \u201CWell, they will know it if they hear it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022028a91b4303947d9bd0d3f7addf5cd53\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I wonder whether you could give some advice to the Committee about the appropriateness of the Minister of Civil Defence parading around the Chamber with a man bag. I am very concerned about that, so could you give us some advice about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be9b760373ed4e9289700fad17371cd2\u0022\u003EHon John Carter\u003C/span\u003E: At least no one can say I am not prepared for when it happens. It is all here; the recipe is here. I just hope everyone else has theirs. I am very proud of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b03b82877e294acfbe122f4a8b6b69ac\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I know that the Hon John Carter was a boy scout. He is always prepared.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252bf84d6c9384fa3831bb6f05f108aee\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Before I start again, I say I am happy to yield to Mr Carter if he would like to tell us what is in the bag\u2014unless it is his gym gear, which would create a hazardous waste area within the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022041fbeb878634063b13c44b6954f6acd\u0022\u003EHon John Carter\u003C/span\u003E: No, more than that!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a65e0fd618b944af8c37f0a57b8c2f7b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: That is great. Before the dinner break I was discussing with the Minister, who I know is very eager to take and answer questions, the noise issue in relation to Part 2 of the bill. A number of members of Parliament are from Canterbury, especially the vibrant member Nicky Wagner. Before and after the election she paraded around the countryside, and she presented a petition from 435 venerable, good-natured folk in Canterbury, who demanded that the Government do something about the noise issue and set the level at 90 decibels. She said\u2014she almost wrote it in blood\u2014at a number of public meetings before the election that this would happen. She lambasted the previous Government and had a crack at us, saying if she got into Government, this would occur, it would happen, and it would be one of the first calls to action that her incoming Government would put through legislation on. Then what happened? Nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe Minister took a call in response to what I said, saying\u2014and I may be paraphrasing him\u2014 the noise issue should be dealt with in rules rather than in primary legislation. I ask the Minister why he rolled his own member of Parliament. Why did he roll his own Cabinet colleague? Kate Wilkinson, a member who occasionally resides in my electorate, also paraded around Christchurch, saying if National got in, it would fix the noise problem for Canterbury and for the rest of New Zealand. Gerry Brownlee said that as well, although he may have been talking about himself rather than boy racers. David Carter and Aaron Gilmore said that, as well. Even after the election, those members still rocked up to public meetings and told people that now that they were in Government, they would sort the issue out. I am sure the Minister will be pleased to know that those members were extremely complimentary when he took over the transport warrant. They said he was a man of action and he would deal to the noise issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022733f8f1ee02143c3be0e82008806fcca\u0022\u003EHon John Carter\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s why we\u2019re here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e91634af69eb4a619dd9c042cfb46cc8\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I tell Mr Carter that here is the problem: the bill does not deal with the noise caused by boy racers, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe 90 decibel pledge that Nicky Wagner and all the National people made is nowhere in this bill, nor is it dealt with in the companion bill. I say to the Minister that if he had a mind to, he could have any legislation passed that he desired to pass. He could pop the 90 decibel limit into this bill now if he and the Government wanted to honour their pledge on that. I am sure Nicky Wagner is around the corners of this Chamber somewhere. I cannot quite see her, but I am sure that she is here and will want to take a call, as will the Leader of the House as he parades into the Chamber tonight. Gerry Brownlee is among the Canterbury members who said that the 90 decibel issue would be sorted and the noise issue in Canterbury would be sorted. I am sure Mr Brownlee will want to take a call and tell the people of Canterbury, New Zealand, why he says\u2014if he sits down\u2014it will be fixed now. Is the member proposing an amendment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de7c18da11bd45c8ad7ae66f9e8752c6\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No, I just think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa690a2283f549d788d96f1b60f3a4c4\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member will be able to tell the people of Christchurch why he sold them out and why he, his other Cabinet colleagues, and Nicky Wagner were rolled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ENowhere in the two bills that we are debating tonight is there any reference to action on a 90 decibel limit. My friend Mr Burns has already alluded to that. Those members have been sold out. It is another broken promise from the National Government. We will enjoy, as we do now, constituents coming to us so that we can try to explain why the National Government has sold them out. I will be sending all of the people from Mandeville North to Kate Wilkinson\u2019s office to get her to explain that. Brendon Burns will be sending his constituents to Nicky Wagner\u2019s office for her to explain that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022804495a356834d278d789b73e463cffa\u0022\u003EHon John Carter\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a good idea; they\u2019ll get decent service that way!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202b661606ed246719b2bbf2456c3f986\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the 435 petitioners who signed Nicky Wagner\u2019s petition did not get decent service from her, because she, that member, this Minister, and this Government have broken their promise. Where is the action?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242c3199d7ef04d008e5cabd61f8f6afc\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a365878cb19445c87852b8f48918522\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the chair of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, David Bennett, who is the member for Hamilton East, or anyone else from the National Party, to get up and tell me where in the legislation there is the solution to the promise to go to 90 decibels. Can the member point me to that on a page, or in a clause or a paragraph of this legislation? Oh no, the member for Hamilton East cannot do that, because I suspect somebody got to him. His constituents in Hamilton East would be spewing, to use a colloquialism, if they knew what he was not doing now. He is not fulfilling an election pledge that he made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister that he has an opportunity. We are here to help; we would support him if he popped in an amendment. But we know, because the majority of the select committee rejected setting a 90 decibel limit, that the National Government will not have a bar of it. That is a shame, because yet again the rhetoric does not match the action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217dce942ac7e40ca9099afbe124ccb12\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: 9 years!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e77c09dc46d4544a712ee20db24c764\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I know the Minister is calling for the chair of the select committee to jump up and move that the question be put, because he does not want to be in the chair. I invite the member from Hamilton to get up and tell his constituents why he sold them out. Or is he so ineffective, and the Minister so effective, that he, Nicky Wagner, and every member in Canterbury, including, bizarrely, the Leader of the House, were rolled? I do not think it is good enough to make a promise like that before, at, and after the election, and then, like little lambs, not to stand up and say \u201CWell, we promised to do it; we said we\u2019d do it. But we conned you; we haven\u2019t done it.\u201D, and not say why the promise has not been fulfilled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220514a3015a6469bb054b0be766d0754\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223957e35072e34ec88252187b02e3d71c\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, where is it? Where is the clause in the bill that deals with 90 decibels? Hello? There is silence. It is deafening. Members speak with a forked tongue over there on the Government benches. The silence is deafening. They are being challenged; it is on the record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280c977d51e0d4659bd618ab527a235a6\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: The silence of the lambs!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022452c07ed2fbf4a848e92a4ef1d692905\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister may take another call and tell us what he is going to do about the noise issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI do not buy what he said earlier. As that Minister and most of the Committee know, rules take a long, long time to get through the labyrinth of processes in relation to transport matters. If that Minister wanted to do something, he could pass the bill tonight with the limit of 90 decibels put in place, as the National members promised. They could do that tonight and we would support it, would we not? We would help to facilitate that, but the National members will not do that. This bill is a bit like the bill that we will be debating later tonight, as there is a big gap between the rhetoric and reality. Judith Collins said every car would be crushed, then on Radio New Zealand National she said that meant 10 cars a year. She says \u201CHa, ha!\u201D to all the people in Christchurch and around the country who have to put up with this insidious behaviour. Effectively, the National Government is saying to communities around the country \u201CHa, ha! We hoodwinked you!\u201D I am sure that the people from Noise Off, from other interest groups, from Cashmere, from out my way, and from Christchurch Central will be very, very interested when they read in the paper tomorrow and the coming days that this bill is hot air. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ETo be fair, I say to the Minister that there is a lot of good stuff in the bill. I concede that, but it does not deal with one of the core issues that National members of Parliament from around the country campaigned on. It does not even make reference to it, yet those same members of Parliament\u2014members like Nicky Wagner, Kate Wilkinson, Gerry Brownlee, and the other two invisible men we have around Christchurch from time to time\u2014will not get up and take a call to explain to their constituents why they have sold them out or why they have so little influence that they were rolled in the select committee. The 435 good souls who signed Nicky Wagner\u2019s petition were rolled; they were not listened to in the select committee. They had no influence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe fact is that the National Government has broken a promise that to some people in our community is a core promise. The people in Blackett St in Rangiora have to put up with this noise every night. So do people in Cashmere, and they called for this measure and National agreed to it, but now the Minister is silent. The National members shake their heads and throw in the odd interjection, but every time that Mr Burns or I have asked where the 90 decibel clause to fix this problem is in the bill, there is silence, because such a clause does not exist. I think that is a shame. To quote National\u2019s jargon, I think that is a \u201Cmissed opportunity\u201D, because some of the measures in this bill are quite practical. They may go some way to solving or alleviating some of the problem, unlike the companion bill that we will be debating next. But the Minister refuses to acquiesce on the issue of setting the noise limit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u00227919eaf54bc74c35806503857fcd3e7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227919eaf54bc74c35806503857fcd3e7c\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to take another call on the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill. I have taken an intense interest in this issue, firstly, of course, because of the plague that boy racers create in my electorate of Christchurch Central, and, secondly, because this was the issue that my National opponent in last year\u2019s election campaigned upon. It was her cause c\u00E9l\u00E8bre. At meeting after meeting she stood up and lambasted the then Labour Government for its supposed inaction on boy-racer issues. Her view is not supported by Minister Collins, at least, who has acknowledged that good work was done by Labour and that this Government is picking up on it\u2014and that is why Labour is supporting this bill tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EBut there is a glaring omission, a deafening silence, around the issue of noise control. It was stated time and time again that National would address that issue. I do not have the full file, because it is quite voluminous, so I will give an abridged version of some of the undertakings made by Nicky Wagner, a National list MP. In the Nor\u2019West News on 16 January last year she said: \u201CWe have some of the slackest vehicle noise rules in the Western World and so we need to make it so that vehicle noise standards are reduced from 95 decibels to 90, and require all excessively noisy cars to be tested at warrant of fitness time.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cabd5bbeb5e84e58a295ef079551c081\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: This bill doesn\u2019t do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225a023eeb74846b28b06cc6424a023f9\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: No, not a sign of it. It is missing in action in that respect. In the Press on 19 February last year, Nicky Wagner wrote in an opinion article that the Labour Government\u2019s new noise controls on vehicles do nothing to tackle the boy-racer problems in cities. In that article she also said that 95 decibels is much louder than the rules in many overseas countries. So, again, when I picked up this bill I expected to see a clause to reduce the maximum noise level down to 90 decibels. On 21 February 2007 she wrote, in an article titled \u201CNoisy vehicle amendments not good enough\u201D: \u201CProposed amendments to the vehicle equipment rule will not bring New Zealand\u2019s noisy vehicle standards up to scratch, says National Party Associate Environment Spokeswoman, Nicky Wagner. The noise problem has been getting steadily worse throughout Labour\u2019s term. This is a basic, environmental issue which the Labour Government just can\u2019t get its head around. Under the proposed new rules, the acceptable noise level for cars would drop from 95 to 90 decibels. This is a standard that\u2019s been in place in Australia since 1983, and here we are still waiting. And we will be waiting until 2010.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022302d5f6766f749c589220acfb002e5ec\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Who said that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd81b6aadb42461fafdb5bcbd2f24429\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: It was Nicky Wagner. In a letter to the Press on 27 February last year, in reply to Darel Hall, she stated: \u201COf course a 90 decibel level will catch 90 percent of boy racers, because by definition a boy racer has a modified noisy exhaust. The Government must act now.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022715ceb5ce4f94b69bd88ffe05c89eb9d\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Who said that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d649faef8b194e1b968750e2f6787866\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: It was Nicky Wagner MP\u2014then, cheekily, \u201CCentral Christchurch\u201D. In another newspaper clipping, from 10 March last year, National MP Nicky Wagner said: \u201Ctighter noise controls were essential. She backed the 90-decibel level, which she said was well above the standard of other countries and would not affect unmodified cars.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaf1bdccafc3472e8e624307b79ebfdf\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Who said that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b941b6601004d0da1362815f8bab77e\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: That was Nicky Wagner, too. Here is something interesting; it is not just Nicky Wagner saying that. Here is a statement from 9 September 2005, headlined \u201CNational to get tough on noisy cars\u2014National will toughen up the regulations and enforcement of car exhaust systems to get the noise levels in neighbourhoods down \u2026\u201D. Do members know who said that? It was National\u2019s environment spokesperson, Nick Smith. \u201CThe problem of noisy boy racers is huge. It causes annoyance and frustration for communities all over New Zealand. People have told me they have had nervous breakdowns, marriage breakups and job losses due to the problems of increasingly noisy cars night after night in their neighbourhoods. National will toughen the requirement to ensure any modified exhaust system is at least as effective as the car\u2019s original. Modifying a car to make it noisier will be illegal. National will introduce a quantitative standard, similar to Australia, so that cars can be properly tested. Labour has allowed boy racers to get away with blue murder. Our car fleet has become increasingly noisy and it is time a new Government said enough is enough.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8ffac7caba64a10bbf24f27bee11dff\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: Who said that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245656b7d30e244229fabe8cd8b04a94c\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: It was Nick Smith, environment spokesperson for the National Party. So there we are: not just Nicky Wagner but senior National front-bench MPs in positions of responsibility said they wanted to deal with the issue of noise. Here we are in the first year of this Government, and despite its member having talked tough on the noise issue, nothing is being done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThis bill provides an opportunity. Despite the protestations of the Minister of Transport, he can introduce an amendment. Labour members have indicated we would seriously look at such an amendment, if the Minister wanted to introduce one. But, no, he is not prepared to do that, nor is he prepared to give us any reason why the noise issue is not being dealt with. The officials are here tonight, and they could give him the answers if he does not have them at his fingertips. We would like to know why nothing is being done, despite repeated assurances to communities such as mine in Christchurch by not only backbench MPs but senior front-bench Opposition members at the time that they would deal with this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003ELabour when in Government took the flak, week after week, of being criticised for not dealing with the issue of boy-racer noise, despite there having been a whole range of other bills. I acknowledge and commend my colleague Clayton Cosgrove for his bill back in 2003, which was the basis of the legislation we are amending this evening. It was a good measure, and it was followed up by Harry Duynhoven\u2019s measure. There were two sets of measures in terms of tightening the nuts to make sure we dealt with boy racers. But there has been nothing from this Government. [Interruption] We will tighten their nuts, all right. There has been nothing from this Government to deal with the noise issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f98ccc67375a45e1adf724b9b3fe6e1f\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Who is nuts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1411cd89269494aa4342037880876fc\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: No, we will not go there. There has been nothing from this Minister. He has the opportunity to tighten the nuts, to deal with the noise issue, and to bring the maximum level down to 90 decibels. But there is not a squeak. There is silence\u2014silence of the lambs. National members were lions in Opposition, and are lambs in Government. That is what I will be taking back to my electorate. The electorate\u2019s expectations were raised time and time again throughout last year\u2019s election campaign. In fact, right back to 2005 National promised that a National Government would introduce legislation to bring the maximum noise level down to 90 decibels. The opportunity is before the Government with this legislation, but there is not a squeak, not a word, not a clause, nothing. There is not even an explanation from the Minister as to why it has not been proceeded with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI think the electorate has every right to feel jaundiced about that. It was promised that the noise issue would be dealt with. The people were told that at public meetings, they were exhorted to fill out petitions, and a member\u2019s bill was introduced to try to deal with the issue. Expectations were raised. People were told that this issue would be sorted. Here is the first opportunity for this supposed Government of action, and it has not done anything. I again ask the Minister to take a call to explain why action has not been taken. The Labour Opposition will support him if he wants to introduce a late amendment to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI would also like to know what the officials think about this. Where are they on this issue? Do they believe that the legislation before the Committee tonight will deal with the noise issue? Obviously, Labour supports the bill. It takes further steps to try to crack down, to tighten the nuts on the boy racers. Yes, let us all support that, but there will still be a noise issue. We would like to know from the Minister tonight why he has not dealt with the noise issue. It was promised and pledged, and the electorate has an expectation that it will be dealt with. It is about time the Minister fronted up and answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 66 in the name of the Hon Steven Joyce to Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002293b8584e30374f33841fd6cdbaa7a08b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 117\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000575\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226c3e794e2ac44178ae5c673fcc67d198\u0022\u003ESchedule 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000577\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 66 in the name of the Hon Steven Joyce to schedule 1 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000578\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000579\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224b78612db1b749f595542610ddff5054\u0022\u003ESchedule 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000581\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 78 in the name of the Hon Steven Joyce to schedule 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000582\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000583\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f0585b15504f43abaa2d84d6ea4b2d55\u0022\u003EClauses 1, 2, and 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022408c81861dbc42fd8217d1ceb6ccc314\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022408c81861dbc42fd8217d1ceb6ccc314\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Clause 1, of course, is the title clause of the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill. I confess that at the start of the debate I could not think of an alternative title or change until I heard the Minister in the chair, the Hon Steven Joyce, speak. He provided us with some very interesting titles, I think. One was with regard to the issue of cruising, which we had canvassed in quite a lengthy and serious way in order to try to elicit from him whether the definition of cruising would, to put it bluntly, stand up in court. Would it be possible for an offender to test it in court and water it down through case precedent? Would it be possible for police to enforce that particular clause, given its nature? Might it, indeed, have an unintended consequence for innocent folk who could be caught by it? I think the example I used, about which we did not get an answer, was that of an election campaign. That is something that is quite dear to the hearts of all of us here. It has been the practice of a number of political parties, including the National Party, to line up vehicles, quite legitimately, with loudhailers or music going\u2014or, to use the definitions in the bill, by drawing attention to \u201Cthe power or sound of the engine\u201D from time to time\u2014to then make a bit of a hullabaloo and draw attention to themselves, of course, and to move in a convoy. The question is whether that would be outlawed by this legislation now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn response to the questions we raised about cruising and other aspects of the bill, the Minister\u2019s response was to refer, presumably, to the police: \u201CThey\u2019ll know it when they see it.\u201D That was what the Minister said, so perhaps we should call this bill the \u201CThey\u2019ll Know It When They See It Bill\u201D. But that does not fill communities around the country full of confidence, because they want this bill to work. We want this bill to work. Communities that have to put up with this sort of stuff every night of the week around the country want this bill to work. That is why we are trying to test these propositions with this Minister, but we are getting no response. I am sorry; we do get a response, but it is not a response that fills us full of confidence, where he bolsters our confidence with legal argument from his officials and others, who can say definitively that the legislation will not be watered down by the courts\u2014that it will not have an unintended consequence on the vintage car club or, indeed, force police perhaps to arrest folks who do not transgress the law but might transgress it technically. Instead of presenting us with legal arguments saying that boy racers will not be able to get around this legislation in court because we will nail them, the Minister\u2019s response was: \u201CThey\u2019ll know it when they see it.\u201D I just say to the Minister that I do not know whether calling the bill the \u201CThey\u2019ll Know It When They See It Bill\u201D is very productive, but it makes the point. As I say, I think the communities that support these measures want to see them work, but they want the confidence to know that the measures will do the job that the Government and this Parliament seek to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe went on to the issue of noise, and I will not rehash those arguments; I am sure my learned colleagues will do that for me. Again, I say that if they will know it when they see it, as the Minister said, then, presumably, \u201CThey will know it when they hear it.\u201D is the policy that he will put forward, or the slogan that he will rattle out, to explain why there is no clause in the bill that deals with the 90-decibel limit. In relation to \u201CThey will know it when they hear it.\u201D, I say that people all around this country who put up with this noise day and night want a noise limit. As I said, Southern Cross Hospital in Mr Burns\u2019 electorate\u2014the example that was used by Nicky Wagner, and others\u2014had patients who had to be moved to the other side of the hospital. Labour members recall having that example thrown up at us day after day. Well, there is an opportunity tonight\u2014or there was, at least\u2014to deal with that issue. Maybe the bill could be called the \u201CWe Sold the Folks Out Over the Noise Bill\u201D, because that is effectively what has happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI suppose the other title we could use is the \u201CDo the Police Have the Resources to Implement this Bill? Bill\u201D. Do they? [Interruption] Well, the Minister shakes his head. Maybe I am not as eloquent as he is, but let us look at the matter in practical terms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263908f4fa0404d66a3f7a048e30cfc70\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s impossible!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f0115e406ca4d21b5f9002fa0c3bc8b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: At least I can look him in the eye when I am speaking. I do not have to look down at my desk and be ashamed of what I am doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022619725c2c24a491b90159814eb6b2c44\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! He\u2019s getting training on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204c566f9573d4888bce01704b562b8b1\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: My colleague said that he is getting training on that. The question is, of course, whether the police in the maestro\u2019s electorate in Kaik\u014Dura, or on the North Shore in Mr Coleman\u2019s electorate\u2014I am not sure where that is\u2014will have the resources to enforce the provisions in this bill. Will they have the resources with 340 cars going? It is a bit hard for the police to chase boy racers if they do not have cars. It is a bit hard for a police officer on a shift to have to wait for a vehicle for 2 hours when he or she comes in. A police officer does not say to the boy racer being dealt with on the side of the road: \u201CSorry, my shift\u2019s over. I\u2019m out of here.\u201D The police do not do that. They conclude the investigation and conclude the processing of the crime. But the police are waiting, we now know, for 2 hours to get out there, do the business, help communities, support them, and clean up that sort of behaviour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI cannot remember, but I am sure Mr Hughes will tell me, how much money was taken out of the road patrol. But several million dollars was taken out of road safety and road patrolling; I do not know the exact figure. Then, again, front-line patrol cars are going. One police officer in my electorate stopped behind my electorate office bus, and the officer said that his patrol car was gone. He was a badged member of the highway patrol. How will that officer have the resources to enforce this legislation? Maybe he will be able to take a cab or run after the boy racer. There is a gap here, I say again, between implementation and the resources to do it. I know the Minister will get up and say what he said last time\u2014that the Government has increased the police budget by x, y, and z.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e77b3a4086224f708e541b86908f1a48\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa408312259a4ac28ada7223962c20e3\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. It is a bit like one of the Ministers who said that in the Budget the Government had given 43 new police cars to the police. A week later we found out that the Government wanted to take 340 police cars from the police\u2014and it has done that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022779c3c37ba4342f4ad746b05c6e57a1c\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Terrible optics!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cfdbb3bd78d45648163e869503cbabb\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yes; optics is something that this Minister apparently specialises in\u2014and I am not talking about fibre optics. The Minister will say that the Government gave the police a Budget allocation. Let him then explain why it is requiring the police\u2014according to Dave Cliff, the Canterbury district commander, in an article\u2014to take $21 million out of their budget when crime is going up, when illegal street racing is going up, and when we know that in a recession crime will go up. The Minister giveth with one hand and taketh away with the other hand behind his back, hoping that people will not see that he and the Government are doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI invite him to explain why there has been a cut in road policing. He will say he has given road policing a budgetary allocation\u2014fine. Why, then, did the Minister take money from it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022897ab55f44c941808e5f3155b47717d6\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: It was a reduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022962d75962c0f4e7c870d2f5667fa6f24\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: It was a reduction, my colleague says. That is interesting. It was a reduction. So I say to the Minister, in concluding, that it would be nice if he would rise to his feet. I know he will probably crack a few jokes. He has been fiddling away there, working out how he could crack a few jokes, and I am sure we will all look forward to those, as he looks down at his piece of paper and reads them out rather than looking at his colleagues on the other side. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d8d91dbcf3f4e3c90e35f598b431853\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Radio jingles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a755a728a8cb4820ab34ed52ef64bf89\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Radio jingles, perhaps! But I would like him to answer those questions we have raised about the issue of cruising, the issue of resourcing, and the issue of noise. I think they are fair questions to ask, as they pertain to the title in clause 1 and the commencement in clause 2\u2014we see that the bill has a staggered commencement. I think they are fair questions to raise. Presumably there is no opposition to that, because the Government members on the other side are struck dumb. They are not saying anything, at all. They are not even trying to defend the Minister\u2019s position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297ba418837c34c4d9f40728f4d6675f7\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s like caucus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022008f710df20a4a3e83afe77178a4f4d6\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: It is like caucus for those guys. I think they are very critical questions that all communities have asked. I think that communities would extend quite a bit of goodwill to this Minister and this Government with regard to this legislation if they had those questions answered. But they are central and critical questions if people are living on the ground and in the communities where this sort of stuff happens. The activity has gone beyond being a pain in the neck. It has got to the point where there is some violence attached to this activity. I know that Mr Burns and others know people who have been impacted by that violence. But the simple issue around noise is not being addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EOn the simple issue of whether the \u201Ccruising clause\u201D will work, I will make a prediction. I do not reckon that it will, sadly, but I will support amendments in the future when we have to come back and stitch up what a court has unstitched, with proper amendments around that issue. I just hope that in respect of cruising we do not get unintended consequences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn respect of police resourcing, I will make another bet with the Minister. The pressure will go on the police\u2014and is already going on today\u2014who are getting it in the ear because they cannot respond as quickly as the public would like. They are the ones who will get it in the ear, not the Minister. He will get an occasional letter from someone who is disgruntled, but, unfairly, it is the men and women in blue who will get it in the ear, as they did in Redwood when they could not respond to a burglary because they did not have the resources to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister a final question. I ask whether, if this legislation does not work because of the cuts he has made, he will do what Judith Collins refused to do before the estimates hearing at the select committee. I ask whether he will stand up and say: \u201CI\u2019ll cop it. I\u2019m the Minister; it is a Westminster system. I\u2019m the person who required these cuts, I\u2019m the person who required this legislation in the form it is to go through, and I\u2019ll take responsibility.\u201D Will he stand before the law enforcement agencies and say \u201CNo, no\u2014you guys and girls do the job that I give you; I as the Minister will take responsibility.\u201D? I ask whether the members for Hamilton, Hawke\u2019s Bay and Kaik\u014Dura will take responsibility. No, the member for Hawke\u2019s Bay is shaking his head and saying that he will not take responsibility. But I ask whether those members will take responsibility in their constituencies when the police cannot enforce the laws this Government puts upon them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 66 in the name of the Hon Steven Joyce to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EClause 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002262c1e347c4c84c41b699d6b9e3db7a72\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u00228fa3002126d0434a96ee550ce01c463f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fa3002126d0434a96ee550ce01c463f\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. I thank members for their work on this bill. It has been given a thorough examination, and the amendments have made a good bill even better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EPeople who engage in illegal street racing activity\u2014and by that I mean unauthorised races, unnecessary acceleration, burnouts, and the pouring of diesel and other substances on the road\u2014are a danger to themselves and to others. Current legislation already prohibits these activities, but it does not go far enough in providing police with appropriate powers that reflect the wider issues associated with illegal street racing. This bill will tighten up that legislation, and tackle other offending that goes hand in hand with illegal street racing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe select committee received many submissions from residents, who said that the peace of their homes was compromised by the selfish and often intimidating behaviour of antisocial drivers. Business owners told of loss of revenue and damage to premises. People told of incessant noise, and it could be said that we have heard some examples of that in the Chamber here this evening. The bill aims to reduce this nuisance and disturbance by giving road-controlling authorities such as councils the powers to create by-laws to prevent cruising. Cruising is carefully defined in the bill as the repeated circling of the same sections of road in a manner that draws attention to the power or noise of the vehicle, or that forms a convoy that impedes the flow of traffic. If car enthusiasts want to meet and admire each other\u2019s vehicles, of course that is fine. However, it ceases to be OK when they create a nuisance to others, intimidate communities, and have an adverse effect on local businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThis bill will also enable police to attach warning notices on vehicles used in breaches of certain illegal street racing or cruising by-laws. The warning on the vehicle will allow the police to impound the vehicle if it is caught breaching another by-law within 90 days. Impoundment in this situation will be mandatory, as it will be for all illegal street racing offences. The bill will also reduce fines for breaching the graduated driver-licensing system and provisions for noisy vehicles, while increasing demerit points for those same offences. We know that fines can be largely ineffective for this group of drivers. Often the fine is paid by parents, pooled and shared amongst the occupants of the cars, or just completely ignored. Demerit points can lead to loss of licence, which has a far higher deterrent value. Demerit points will also be attached to registration plate offences for those who deliberately obscure or use false registration plates to avoid detection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EPolice have told me of their frustration when, after ticketing drivers on a learner or restricted licence for breaching their licence conditions, they then watch the offenders drive away, still in breach of their conditions. This bill will give the police the power to stop this by forbidding the person from driving, by taking away the vehicle\u2019s keys, or by taking other necessary steps to immobilise the vehicle until it can be driven legally. Drivers who have been suspended or disqualified are supposed to surrender their photo driver\u2019s licence card, but often this does not happen. The administrative costs of a licence suspension and disqualification are borne by all licensed drivers. This bill will give the New Zealand Transport Agency the power to cancel a driver\u2019s licence card. Drivers will have to pay to get a new card after their period of suspension or disqualification ends.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe bill will increase penalties for those who try to evade the police by failing to stop when requested, and for those who try to avoid detection by refusing to give the details of drivers and passengers involved in offences. The bill will make it mandatory for a vehicle ordered off the road by the police for excessive exhaust noise to undergo a metered noise test before obtaining a new warrant of fitness. Vehicles that pass the test will have their exhaust system indelibly marked. This will prevent exhaust swapping or tampering, which is known to happen following a warrant of fitness. Police will also have the power to direct a vehicle to be inspected if the officer suspects that the vehicle has been illegally modified or is unsafe. Currently police can ask drivers to take their vehicles for an inspection but have no power to compel them to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EFor too long, serious traffic offenders have been able to avoid having their vehicles confiscated because of a loophole in the law that allows them to transfer the registration of vehicles to friends or family members while still having full access to the vehicles. Police will now be able to prohibit the sale or disposal of vehicles prior to the vehicles being confiscated. Serious traffic offenders will lose their vehicles. Bailiffs and officers of the court will now be able to seize or confiscate a vehicle directly from an impoundment yard. This will reduce the number of vehicles that disappear between the time of being released from the impoundment yard and that of the bailiff turning up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EFurther to the increased penalties for failing to stop, a Supplementary Order Paper has been introduced to give the police power to impound a vehicle for 28 days when the driver has failed to stop when signalled to do so. Failure to stop represents a deliberate attempt to evade punishment for offending. When high speeds and dangerous driving are involved, the safety of all road users is jeopardised. Vehicle impoundment is an immediate sanction, which will send a clear message to people who attempt to evade the police that this will not be tolerated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EFinally, following the agreement of Parliament to consider a Supplementary Order Paper amending the new drug-impaired driving legislation, this bill will strengthen that legislation in an important way. It adds 34 sedative and anti-anxiety medications, known collectively as benzodiazepines, to the list of drugs, which, if found in the bloodstream of a driver who has failed the compulsory impairment test, will be grounds for prosecution. Recently published research shows that benzodiazepines significantly increase the risk of motor vehicle crashes. We need to send a strong signal deterring people from driving under the influence of such drugs, and this bill will help to achieve that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThis new legislation will come into force on 1 November, and I thank the House for facilitating this enhancement. The bill will give police and road controlling authorities the appropriate powers for addressing this problem. It sends a strong message that illegal street racing and the antisocial use of vehicles have no place on our roads. We are working to improve road safety further through the Safer Journeys strategy, and we simply cannot tolerate wilfully dangerous behaviour on our roads. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00229cc9cca9149544e2a2dcdf4769f43208\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cc9cca9149544e2a2dcdf4769f43208\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E As we have said throughout this debate, the Labour Party will be supporting the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill. We think a number of its aspects have a high degree of value. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI support Supplementary Order Paper 78, which brings in seizure sanctions for a failure to stop. I can recall going out a number of times over the last 9 years with local police in Christchurch, and that was one of the issues they had to deal with. I commend the Minister of Transport, the Hon Steven Joyce, for his action on that matter. It was often a dangerous situation, where the lights would go on and the siren would sound, and the young person, as it generally was, would do a runner. I have seen some situations while in the back of a police car where potentially tragic actions could have occurred and innocent bystanders could well have been killed because of a failure to stop. It creates a reaction in the police that they have to take some sort of positive step. They have to chase the person within the rules that are allowed for, and that in itself is hazardous to the innocent, the offender, and the police. We also support the amendment to the provisions on benzodiazepines. There has been some good information from officials on that issue, and we think that amendment has a reasonable amount of logic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EHowever, I will reiterate some of the points that have been made in the debate. We support this legislation, and there is goodwill from members of the Opposition on the need to see the actions of boy racers and girl racers dealt to. They are a nuisance and they are, in many respects, violent. I have seen that violence. It has been perpetrated on police, innocent homeowners, and people who have to drive through crowds of these boy racers, many of whom act like lunatics, to put it bluntly. Many of them are very savage in the actions that they take against innocent folk. Many of them are intimidators. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIt has gone beyond what some people might think when they say that their dads and granddads did doughnuts on the footy field, and that everybody did the same. I think that the difference between then and now is that they were not in turbocharged death machines, as some of them are now. They were not out there in groups of 500, 600, 700, 800, or in excess of that number. They were not kicking in people\u2019s letterboxes, abusing people, and throwing objects and bottles at policemen in police cars, they were not intimidating, and, ultimately, they were not being violent towards the citizens in our community. It has gone beyond a joke. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI gave it a shake in 2003, using some of the best information that we had and information that came out of Australia. A policeman called Geoffrey Kenna brought over the New South Wales legislation that we modelled ours on. Today it is a fact that the provisions of our legislation are still tougher than any legislation that exists in Australia. Sadly, we have judges\u2014I am being careful with what I say\u2014who have not taken advantage of the full strength of the law. The penalties that they have dished out have resulted in permanent confiscation in only 2 percent of cases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI will raise a couple of issues again. This legislation will be only as good as the resources that the agencies\u2014the police, primarily, in this case\u2014are given to implement it. If agencies are not resourced, they will not be able to implement this legislation, and expectations are very high in the community that it will be enforced. I commend Minister Steven Joyce for his use of language. Unlike Judith Collins, his counterpart, I think that probably he can see into the future to the point where he knows that there is no silver bullet for this issue, and that this legislation may or may not work, although we hope that it does. He has not done the impersonation of John Wayne at the OK Corral, swaggering around with the six-guns like a latter-day Clint Eastwood, saying that he is the tough guy who will sort this out. We have all given it a shot, and the activity goes on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut I say to the Minister that he cannot put through legislation without providing the resources behind it. Cutting the police budget by 21 million bucks and taking out 10 percent of the vehicle fleet is not the way to do it. That 10 percent of the vehicle fleet includes many front-line vehicles. We have been told that 32 vehicles have gone in greater Christchurch alone\u201432 vehicles. A drug-dog car has gone. We know that. There are other examples of front-line vehicles that have gone because of a requirement to make cuts in the budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIt is no good for Ministers to say that the police budget has been increased on the one hand while they slip the other hand behind their back and require the police to claw back 10 percent of the vehicle fleet, to ration firearms training\u2014as is happening now\u2014and to cut the police budget by $21 million. The National Government calls it \u201Csavings\u201D. That is probably Mr Joyce\u2019s spin that he has worked through at his focus groups. The Government calls it savings, but when we take money out of an organisation, it is called a cut. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo there is the issue of resourcing, and there is the issue of whether the bill works, as we hope it does, and as we have already pointed out. Sadly, we have less confidence tonight than we did before this debate that the definition of \u201Ccruising\u201D is robust enough to withstand a court challenge and a case precedent that may water it down, robust enough to not catch innocent people, unintended though that may be, and robust enough to ensure that boy racers cannot get around it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWhen we asked Minister Steven Joyce during the debate to give us confidence and to give us the information he had that this provision would stand up in court, would catch the boy racers, and would not have the unintended consequence of capturing the innocent, he replied: \u201CDo not worry. They will know it when they see it.\u201D It is the approach of putting a finger in the air and hoping that the police get it right. If the police, perchance, get it wrong because the legislation is loose, we will not see this Minister for dust. He will not be standing up to defend the police as they get a hammering from a judge in court. We will not see this Minister for dust. He will not take responsibility for this. He will be off and out of it. Neither will the Minister of Police take responsibility for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe other issue that was raised was noise. Some members opposite laughed at that, but I suspect that those who are in the constituencies where these people are running amok will know that the noise issue is of paramount importance to our communities. If people are not being threatened or intimidated, then they cannot get to sleep because of the noise. These people are running amok every day, and they are not car enthusiasts. I commend car enthusiasts. They are good, law-abiding folk who love their wagons, their vehicles, and I say good on them. Some people collect stamps, other people put their dough into cars. If they act legally, then I say good on them. I support them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut the noise issue in Christchurch, Hamilton, Auckland, and around the country is literally driving people mad. They have had a gutsful of it. We have heard from families in areas in Christchurch where people cannot get a good night\u2019s sleep. They cannot get to sleep at any time, because the boy racers are out there having a go. There was an opportunity in this bill to put that right and to implement the pledge, cast iron as it was, of Nicky Wagner, Kate Wilkinson, Gerry Brownlee\u2014he is a Canterbury member who was up on the stumps saying that the Government would sort out the noise\u2014David Carter, and Aaron Gilmore, who is another of the invisible men. All of them lambasted us before the election, saying that they would sort it out and that it would be dealt with. Well, it has not been dealt with, and nowhere in this bill or its companion is there a clause that deals with the 90-decibel limit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ENicky Wagner gave a petition from 435 good souls in Christchurch to the select committee. There was a National majority on that select committee. On that committee, which was controlled by the National Party, she was rolled by National members. She was rolled by the Minister and even by the Leader of the House, who, I presume, supported it because he said so before the election. He was out there on the stump saying that National would make it happen, and that there would be a 90-decibel limit. He said that if people voted for National, then National would sort it out. He said that Labour members were a pack of wimps and that National would do it. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear! Presumably, he was rolled by the Minister of Transport as well, and he is the Leader of the House. He is the third most powerful man in the country, according to the Christchurch Press.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022553a505a21824779a8e0c22555eed709\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Joyce is No. 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bd45a12da4d428684651a0bc947d1b1\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Joyce is No. 2. But presumably Gerry Brownlee got rolled. Maybe Mr Brownlee could get up and tell us where in the legislation, either in this bill or in the companion legislation, is the clause that meets the pledge that he and Nicky Wagner made to get the issue of the 90-decibel limit sorted. [Interruption] Maybe David Bennett is the 2,000th most powerful man in New Zealand, although I doubt it; maybe he is the 200,000th most powerful man.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d282916c3e6842de8fded9778094e3bf\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s more than you are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d4667a129c14e34a547b1aff49d03df\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the great maestro who just interjected on me that at least I never went around the country and said: \u201CI will do this. Vote for me and it will happen.\u201D, and then with the first bill that came up, produced the silence of the lambs. I do not mean the lamb chops, I say to Gerry Brownlee. It is the silence of the lambs. I am sure that Mr Brownlee will go to his Ilam constituency, where he resides occasionally\u2014he occasionally has a clinic, apparently; maybe Nick Smith is there\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df808c1f021446ccb1ba730cb35b3870\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Once a year\u2019s a lot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdf60102b05d495fb1e08a574ccea272\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014once a year\u2014and tell his constituents that he has sold them out. He said it would happen. He said that they should vote for him and he would sort it out. It never happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThis is a test, and it is a very important issue. It might not be a great issue of gravitas for others around the country, but I tell members that for someone who lives on Blackett Street in Rangiora and who cannot get to sleep every night, it is a hell of an issue. It is a big issue\u2014a huge one. I am sure that a couple of people who live in Blackett Street may have voted for Kate Wilkinson and the National Party\u2014or maybe one person did\u2014and they were sold out as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e780013da9cf403398518f13c6d6f354\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b6878282ae7840dfb5ce6c2a492195eb\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002299d4d0f3f6aa4de7877a3cb6a49fc192\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299d4d0f3f6aa4de7877a3cb6a49fc192\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Subsequent to discussions among the whips earlier this afternoon relating to the House programme, I seek leave for Government order of the day No. 5 to be postponed until after Government order of the day No. 7.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d44bd01c335a4a0597df02caa2535087\u0022\u003ELand Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f39a1050d0704a4fa1d5ad7050f4911a\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000652\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00220761e873ebdb4e3ebf90f770b53a1882\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220761e873ebdb4e3ebf90f770b53a1882\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I will take a short call in regard to the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill. I congratulate the Minister on his sterling effort in getting this bill through Parliament. I also congratulate members of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee on the way they dealt with the issue. They basically looked at the bill from an objective point of view and tried to get the best solution for New Zealand residents and citizens. The issue predominantly affects a lot of urban centres, not just Christchurch but also major centres throughout the country. This bill is the best we can do to deal with that issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EOpposition members have said they see a few holes in the bill, but they had a chance for 9 years to address the issue; the member who has been talking for the last 10 minutes, Clayton Cosgrove, actually put up his own member\u2019s bill a few years ago. Now he has had revelations about what he should have put in his bill but did not. He knows that the reality of what he has been talking about for the last 2 hours will not happen. This bill is the best attempt and the best solution we can get to the issue we are dealing with. Labour members know that, are voting for it, and know it is the best solution. We commend this bill to the House and congratulate all the officials who have helped us, as well. We have been through many a different avenue to get to this result. I thank them for their time and effort, as well. We support this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u00223578880ce0a045adbb7573d973eb9ed1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223578880ce0a045adbb7573d973eb9ed1\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call in the third reading of the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill. I too add my thanks to the officials for the work they did in the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, which, I think, was done under some pressure at some stages. I acknowledge the members of the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI particularly acknowledge the submitters, once again. We heard from various submitters\u2014some in Christchurch, some in Auckland, and some in Wellington. On the first day that we got back from Christchurch, where we had heard the first round of submissions on the Government\u2019s two so-called boy-racer bills\u2014this bill and its companion bill\u2014I made a note that it was far more interesting than I had thought it would be. I came away with a very clear view, after hearing from the residents in Christchurch who were affected by good boy-racers, bad boy-racers, the police, and officials, that there is no quick fix to this problem. The legislation makes us feel as if we are doing something, but the question for the select committee and this House is whether these two bills will really make any difference or whether they are just window dressing. Having been through the select committee process and the consideration of the bills, I still believe that both bills, this bill and its companion bill, are window dressing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI do, however, acknowledge that some useful tools are provided in this bill. I have acknowledged that in previous contributions. This legislation gives more powers to the police and, again, I want to share my colleagues\u2019 concern that that is great but that there are still issues around police resourcing. We did not get an answer from the Minister about the issues around the cuts to the police resourcing we are seeing. Three hundred police cars have been cut\u2014300 front-line vehicles. Enforcement is a really important part of making this bill, and the next bill we will be discussing, work. For example, the police on the North Shore, where I work, tell me that one in six calls that they attend relates to family violence. If there will not be additional police resources to deal with the measures in this bill, which give police more enforcement powers, what will happen to the issue of family violence? The previous Government was definitely committed to addressing family violence, and this Government may be committed to it. It is an ongoing issue. There is more and more reporting of family violence. There will also be ongoing issues with accident compensation, actually, and with sexual abuse counselling. However, I will put those issues to one side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAs I said, it was pretty obvious from the beginning that there was no easy fix to the problem. Submitters told us that noise was the big problem. I must admit that I came away, with my colleagues, thinking that if noise was the problem, then we should fix it. It felt as if it should have been easy to fix. Certainly, we had listened to Nicky Wagner, who had submitted a petition, and to all of the rarking up she had done over the last 3 years around the issue of noise, from the 2005 election through to the 2008 election\u2014\u201CThis is something the Government has failed to address. Let us do something about it.\u201D\u2014and I think that that is a very sobering lesson for those members who are now in Government. It is very easy to rark up people. It is very easy to keep people distressed about things. It is very easy to say that we will fix it. But when it comes down to the problem, I say to Jonathan Coleman, it is not that easy to fix it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI am particularly concerned that the expectations of the public have been raised about this bill and the companion bill. I think the public have been led to believe that this bill and the next bill will address the issue of illegal street racing, and that suddenly, in the four avenues in Christchurch, which are at the heart of the problem we have heard about, that street racing will stop. There will not be boy racers behaving badly. There will not be any noise. There will not be any of the bad social behaviour we have seen. Overnight it will stop when this bill is passed. I am really looking forward to coming back in a year and asking whether it has. Has the bill made any difference? I think that the people of Christchurch and the other cities who came along and made submissions to the committee about this issue\u2014which is affecting them, and for whom we have a huge amount of sympathy\u2014have been misled by this Government. As I said, it is a lesson for this Government about rarking up the issues when the issues are actually much more complex than this Government seems to think. During the select committee deliberation on this bill, I wondered how much thinking was done by the Government in putting up this bill, and whether there were some other approaches they considered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAll members, I am sure, who have any interest in road or transport safety, as I do, will have read the Automobile Association\u2019s report, Saving Ourselves, and its submission on the transport safety consultation, Safer Journeys, that is out there at the moment. Some of my colleagues have mentioned that there have been successful police approaches to dealing with this issue. For example, there was Operation Sniper, and I think my colleague Carol Beaumont will talk a little bit about that operation in Manukau. Some young people enjoy baiting the police. The more those young people are out there, the more they will bait them. But the police have shown under Operation Sniper how the problem can be dealt with without this sort of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAnother interesting thing in the AA report is the approach in South Australia. It is said that although New Zealand has stuck firmly to social marketing as an adjunct to enforcement, Australia has recognised that driving information campaigns on matters like fatigue cannot be linked to enforcement. Moreover, the Australians have gone further with social marketing campaigns to denigrate antisocial driving behaviour. The objective is to achieve a social consensus similar to that achieved on drink driving. The \u201Csmall finger\u201D campaign is aimed at young men showing off. I am interested to know whether this Government has had a look at what they are doing in South Australia, because I think that a lot of it is not just about enforcement and putting more laws in place, and making sure that the police have the resources; it is also about changing behaviour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe Opposition does support some parts of this bill. We support the increase in demerit points because it is very obvious that fines do not work. In fact, fines become a badge of honour for many young people. They boast about the level of fines they have, with no intention of ever paying them. But, again, safe driving behaviour still relies on enforcement, on having police on the road, and on making sure they have the resources to catch people. As I said, we support many other useful tools, but that is one of them in particular. I think that a whole lot more work needs to be done around the demerits versus fines issue. There needs to be a whole lot more thinking about that and what it means. Labour is supporting this bill because overall we take a balanced view. The bill has more useful things than useless things in it, which is why we are supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI think that some real questions will be raised by communities that made submissions on this bill. I will be very interested to see whether in one year those affected by the serious harm that illegal street racers do to communities have found that things have changed. I suspect they will not have changed. I have to say that if the Government thinks that boy racers are a problem, then it should wait until the bikers get on the road and start rallying outside this Parliament with the concerns that they have around accident compensation levies. The bikers are just one group; I will not go into all the other groups.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ESome other things were mentioned that people submitted on, and one was compulsory third party vehicle insurance. As reported in the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee report, that insurance was suggested by several submitters as a means of altering drivers\u2019 behaviour and reducing the numbers of unsafe vehicles. We understand that the Ministry of Transport is reviewing this type of insurance. We consider that it needs detailed investigation. The issue is outside the scope of this bill, but I suggest to the House that it is pretty urgent. It seems to be, from the submissions, that this is one way of really tackling the problem of what we have in New Zealand, which is a number of cheap cars that are easy to access. We can take them away, confiscate them, and crush them, but then people can get new ones. We have to make it more expensive through that compulsory third party vehicle insurance. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022 data-id=\u00229aab1b009f5e4d56babc27b51cec929b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229aab1b009f5e4d56babc27b51cec929b\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the ACT Party to support the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill, as we have done from the beginning. Until the new-found rapprochement between Mr Cosgrove on the other side and me was made, we were frequently at loggerheads. He mocked us on occasion, and no doubt will again, about what we were doing supporting bills like this one and whether we were not the party of freedom. I will not target Mr Cosgrove, because he is being very nice and polite at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EBut I will say that freedom is not the same as a word that is not heard much these days: licence. Freedom is the freedom to do what one wants to do, with the huge caveat that it does not interfere with the rights of others. Licence is the right, supposedly, to do what one wants to do. But it comes with a disconcerting consequence, which is that those who have their rights infringed can do what they like to another. That is called anarchy, and nobody on any side of the House, I do not believe, supports that. We support this bill because people do not, as speakers on all sides have said, have the right to disturb people\u2019s sleep, drive them half mad, or simply interfere with their enjoyment of their back garden on a summer\u2019s night. Classical liberalism does not allow that, and we do not support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EI also agree with Mr Cosgrove about the reluctance of judges to use the law that he sponsored and pushed through Parliament. Sadly, judges\u2019 reluctance to use the ambit of the law is all too common. That is one of the reasons why the \u201Cthree strikes\u201D bill, which the ACT Party has sponsored and which now forms part of the Sentencing and Parole Reform Bill, is necessary. I will use the example of Andrew Peter McGlynn. He is currently facing his fourth recall\u2014yes, his fourth recall\u2014from parole. Originally he committed murder 23 years ago. He was released from a life sentence after 9 years, committed an aggravated robbery, and was recalled. He was released again, committed another aggravated robbery, and was recalled. He was released again and assaulted a female. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EThat man should and would have been banged up for 14 years after the second aggravated robbery on parole had there been a \u201Cthree strikes\u201D law at the time. Sadly, the judges who dealt with him on those two occasions chose to give him sentences in the single figures, cut down by the Sentencing Act that was passed by the previous Government. This man is articulate and intelligent, and he has been able to fool the Parole Board not once, not twice, but three times. He is about to go back again. So I absolutely agree with Mr Cosgrove that the laws that we pass here are only part of the picture. Sometimes it is perfectly justified to blame the politicians, but not always. The judges must use what they are given by us, and if they do not do that, in my view that reflects very badly on the judiciary. This man, as I have said, is set again for recall after breaching parole conditions for a fourth time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EI will also speak briefly about Darien Fenton\u2019s contribution, in which she said that we may have to come back here in a year, because the bill we are debating tonight may not achieve its aims. That is perfectly true, but there is nothing unique about that. Taxation law is amended constantly, for the very good reason that loopholes are found by lawyers who are paid a great deal more than I ever was as a lawyer. Those loopholes are closed, and they find new ones. Parliament then has to close those loopholes, and so on. That is why the Income Tax Act and similar legislation gets fatter and fatter by the year. It was ever so, and sadly it will always be so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EThat is no reason to denigrate what we are doing here tonight. No doubt there will be clever lawyers\u2014so-called civil liberties lawyers\u2014who will take on these cases and find loopholes. We may well be back here next year. If we are, we will support whatever the Government proposes, if it appears to be a sensible response to those loopholes. Experience shows that in the case of both the boy-racer problem and the gangs, constant enforcement of the law by the police and constant, proper application of the law by the judges does work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EWe talked briefly about the boy-racer thing in the last sitting week. I observed that at that time the problem had apparently abated somewhat in South Auckland. Mr Tau Henare has observed that it has moved to West Auckland. That is what happens. It is similar with gangs. I am reliably informed that when the police relentlessly applied the law in Wanganui and turned over, as they say, gang cars whenever they got the chance and there was reasonable cause to do so, gang crime went down. So it does work. It is a combination of effort by the police and by the judiciary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EAs I have said, the boy-racer problem subsides when the law is enforced. There will be loopholes, no doubt, that will be uncovered and created by clever lawyers who somehow think their vocation in life is protecting those who make other people\u2019s lives a misery. If we need to, we will come back here next year, the year after that, and the year after that to plug those loopholes, just as we do with tax law. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb08552f6cbe410eb3f0021019691cc9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb08552f6cbe410eb3f0021019691cc9\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to speak on the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill. I also thank the Minister, officials, and other committee members for the work they have done on the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThis bill is about making our roads safer. It gives police and transport agencies greater powers. It is all about tackling illegal street racing and the antisocial behaviour that goes with it. It is also about what happens in the aftermath of illegal street racing\u2014the litter, the broken bottles, and the alcohol-fuelled, hoon-like behaviour. It is about the terrorising of residents. We heard from moteliers from Bealey Avenue about how it had affected their businesses: the negative impact on their businesses, and the fact that their clients had had disturbed sleep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EWe heard about mob-like attacks on police officers. In January this year Christchurch Hospital had to move its patients from the front part of the hospital, which was by the street, to the back of the hospital. That was a major disruption for a service like that. We heard, unfortunately, of a number of deaths that have occurred from illegal street racing. On average, 137 crashes a year result in injury or death caused by this activity, which involves mainly younger people. These are unnecessary deaths, and that is a tragic waste of human life. This bill will stop the menacing cruising behaviour by boy and girl racers, and the intimidation of residents and pedestrians. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper, which will allow a 28-day vehicle impoundment period for the offence of failing to stop when requested, is a good measure. We were quite astonished to hear in the select committee that the police were very concerned that the youth driving these vehicles did not stop when asked to; they sped off and played cat and mouse, and flouted the law with no respect for the law whatsoever. Clearly, the current penalty of 35 demerit points and a fine of no more than $10,000 is not working, and I am confident that the 28-day impoundment provision will send a clear message to these street racers that this Government is serious. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u002238f2fc8c4f984ff3ba0a1d1ce2117d1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238f2fc8c4f984ff3ba0a1d1ce2117d1f\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Like others who have risen to speak on the third reading of the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill, I would like to acknowledge that illegal street racing is a real problem and something we need to address. Like many others on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, I was very moved by some of the submissions we heard on the bill, and particularly by some of the submissions made in Christchurch. People\u2019s lives were seriously affected by their inability to sleep at night. Not being able to sleep on an ongoing basis is a serious issue. In some cases people were not able to use certain parts of their houses, or their businesses were being affected. Ms Blue said that in some cases people had to put up with menacing and intimidating behaviour. We had a situation where a person actually chose not to submit on the bill because of being scared of the consequences of doing so. In the end, the Hon Lianne Dalziel submitted in that person\u2019s place. Labour recognises the seriousness of the problem and we will support, and we are supporting, any genuine effort to deal with the issue of illegal street racing and the antisocial behaviour that goes with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe chair of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, David Bennett, mentioned earlier that this is the best that we can do. I am afraid I do not agree with that. I think genuine efforts had been made by the previous Government, and I would like to acknowledge the work of my colleague Clayton Cosgrove in that regard, particularly, and other Christchurch MPs. I think the Government is trying to progress those efforts and take them a step further, but this is not the best we can do; there is a lot of window dressing in this bill and its companion bill, and there are some areas of concern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EBut before I go into those areas, like others, let me acknowledge all of the people who made submissions on the bill\u2014and there were a significant numbers of submissions. Likewise, I would like to acknowledge the officials. They worked very hard, and a lot of particularly interesting questions were thrown their way, which they attempted to respond to and often responded to very clearly. We were under quite a lot of time pressure, which was unfortunate; the consequences of that are that some areas are not as clear as they might be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe bill aims to disrupt and deter illegal street racing and related activities such as cruising by enhancing the powers of road controlling authorities to create by-laws in relation to such activities, and to provide enforcement officers with more powers to tackle illegal street racing. The elements that are part of that are, first of all, the issue of cruising, which has been well canvassed tonight. The definition of \u201Ccruising\u201D causes Labour members some concern. We are not sure that the wording in place will do the job. A change was made by the select committee. The definition stated that cruising refers to the act of \u201Cdriving repeatedly over the same section of a road\u201D to draw attention to the power or sound of the motor vehicle, or in order to create a convoy that impedes traffic flow. But now the definition talks about \u201Cdriving repeatedly in the same direction over the same section of a road\u201D, thereby excluding going backwards and forwards over the same section of a road. That is a concern because the noise will be the same either way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003ELikewise, I am concerned about the issue of by-laws. Although I can see the logic that by-laws enable local authorities to make specific and relevant changes in their areas, all of the local authorities\u2014certainly, all the ones I can recall\u2014did not want that power. That is a very interesting point and one we did not come to terms with. They were saying that they did not think by-laws would be the right tool. They thought there should be legislation, yet we have gone ahead and put in place by-law provisions. It remains to be seen whether they will be effective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EMy point earlier was that after listening to all of the submissions I think there is no easy answer to this problem, and the real issues are quite significant ones that require a range of responses. Overwhelmingly, the significant issue is noise\u2014it almost goes without saying. The problem with illegal street racing is the noise it creates and the disruption it causes. That is the biggest problem. The second and third problems are road safety issues arising from the actions of those illegal street racers, and their antisocial behaviour, which is often fuelled by alcohol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe terminology of \u201Ccruising\u201D and the use of by-laws to stop cruising are effectively a proxy; a proxy to try to stop the cars from going round and round, if you like, so the noise will not be there, the road safety issues will not be there, and the antisocial behaviour will not be there. In theory it is possible to imagine a situation where a car or several cars drive round and round some of the places we are talking about without causing trouble, without creating unnecessary noise, without creating road safety problems, and without antisocial behaviour. So it is not the actual cruising that is the problem; it is the things that go with it, and I do not think that we have effectively tackled those questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EWe decided the decibel issue was too hard so we have left it alone. We heard from the police that they have a couple of noise provisions that are potentially very effective and can assist them. They are the Land Transport Rule: Vehicle Equipment 2004 and the Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004, both of which give the police quite a lot of scope to deal with the issue of noise. But to do so, they need to be there, and they need to be there in sufficient numbers and at the right time to utilise those provisions. The police made those points to us quite strongly. Likewise, road safety issues and policing of road safety problems are about having adequate policing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EMembers can see that there are a whole range of possibilities relating to the third issue of antisocial behaviour. Why do young people congregate in these ways and take the actions that they do? Alcohol is certainly one of the reasons, and I guess there is an opportunity to look at that. The Law Commission has flagged the issue of drinking and cars and whether more needs to be done in relation to that issue. We have quite strong drink-driving provisions, but in the case of illegal street racing and boy racers the issue is not just the driver but the passengers, and there is a need to look at their antisocial behaviour, which is fuelled by alcohol. Significant things can be done in all of those areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI want to talk a little bit about some of the policing initiatives, because I was very impressed with what the police have been doing in some parts of New Zealand. We were led to understand that very effective initiatives and interventions are being undertaken by the police in regard to illegal street racing, such as Operation Sniper in Counties-Manukau. I will talk a little bit about that, but, first, I put on record my acknowledgment of the work of the police in relation to this issue. I think the police try very hard, with the resources they have, to tackle the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EWhat became clear to us is the need for greater consistency in police behaviour across the country. What has worked well in some parts of the country can be utilised elsewhere. I will explain a little bit more about Operation Sniper in Counties-Manukau. It targets illegal street racing and driving complaints in Counties-Manukau. Basically, a full-time sergeant has been put in place to deal with the problems. A number of initiatives have been looked at. These included looking at intelligence around illegal street racing, staff training on the relevant legislation and what could be done within the existing rules, education campaigns at the local high school, using the existing by-laws in place in Manukau City, looking at overt and covert police tactics, working with partner agencies such as the Manukau City Council and the Department of Corrections, working with affected local business owners and residents, and trying to develop new initiatives. There has been a significant impact as a result of those initiatives, and the numbers bear this out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022105f9a62e3f042f79f11a4d1e049a8be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022105f9a62e3f042f79f11a4d1e049a8be\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am glad I was part of this bill. I want to thank Steven Joyce; David Bennett, the chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee\u2014and a good chairperson he is, too\u2014Nicky Wagner, who went out of her way to collect many, many signatures; and Paul Quinn, as well. Nicky Wagner went out and collected many, many signatures because this was an issue particularly in Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the meaning behind this bill. This bill is about reducing harm, reducing the nuisance, reducing disorder, and reducing antisocial behaviour. It has nothing to do with noise. If it had something to do with noise, then fellows like me and my mates in South Auckland in the best part of the 1970s would have been done for making too much noise. There would have been legislation all over the place about making noise. It is not about noise. It is about reducing harm to the community. I know that those people who get up and talk about noise are getting a wee bit old. They cannot handle the sounds that the little Honda Civics and Nissans make. Some of us can handle the noise that the V8s and the Fairlane 500s make going up the street. I know that it is a long time since we heard that big, grunty sound. The issue is about the harm and the disorder that is created around the use of vehicles today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EWhat I like about this bill is that it states that a licence is a privilege, not a right. When somebody gives us a privilege we have certain responsibilities: to act nicely, and to act within the law. If people do not act within the law, then their licence should be taken away from them. I like the idea of a licence, as a piece of property, belonging to the agency. Licences do not belong to individuals, they belong to the agency, and it is a privilege for individuals to hold that piece of property until they no longer need it, or they have transgressed and they have to give back that property because they have stepped over the mark. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003ESo I think this is a good bill. Obviously, to some people it will not be the biggest Christmas present they have ever had, but it does go a long way to reducing harm, nuisance value, and disorder, and everybody knows what comes from disorder. The bill is also about reducing antisocial behaviour. I too commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u002212727653216b4cabbfe1330f59e59f46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212727653216b4cabbfe1330f59e59f46\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I will just pick up on the comments made by the previous speaker, Tau Henare, who said that this bill is not about noise but about harm. Well, I challenge him to tell that to my constituents\u2014to tell them that no harm is caused by cars, 500 at a time, with modified exhausts, roaring down Fitzgerald Avenue or Bealey Avenue at 2 o\u2019clock on a Saturday morning with unabated noise coming from their modified mufflers. He should tell that to my constituents, to whom Nicky Wagner pledged and promised that she would deal with this issue, and that she would see the allowable noise level cut from 95 decibels to 90 decibels. She said that it would be a priority for this National Government. She blackguarded Harry Duynhoven and called him a petrolhead, yet here we have Tau Henare saying it is OK to roar about in V8 cars like he did in the 1970s. Well, as I say, he should come down and tell that to my electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EMy colleague Carol Beaumont quite rightly categorised this bill as covering three things. It is about noise, cruising, and antisocial behaviour, mostly linked to alcohol consumption. I have to note at this point that in the Committee stage and so far in the third reading we have not heard from a National member from Christchurch\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288545329b60646578912795e865ef5c1\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6eb3833521e4643af37de25b03ca6ef\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: That is right\u2014not yet. Much noise was made during the election campaign and throughout the last 3 years by people like Nicky Wagner, like Kate Wilkinson, and like Gerry Brownlee. We have not heard a peep from them so far on this bill. Ms Wilkinson is in the House tonight and I hope she will take a call and explain to the people she sought to represent, and to whom she indicated that National would deal to the noise issue, why she has not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EIt was not just the Christchurch MPs who gave this indication. The petition considered by the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee was, in fact, launched in Nelson in February 2006. The reason it was there was that the environment spokesperson for the National Party, Dr Nick Smith, wanted the petition launched in Nelson. At that time he told the Nelson Mail he had had more than a dozen residents approach him, angry at the noise from the popular wide-bore exhausts\u2014I think that refers to the car, not the member. He said that thousands of cars were being imported from Japan with perfectly good mufflers, but they were being replaced with systems designed to be noisy. He said that it was environmental vandalism and that no other country allows perfectly good muffler systems to be ripped off and replaced with mufflers that do not work. He was very keen to support Nicky Wagner\u2019s petition, supported by a member\u2019s bill, about the control of noisy exhausts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003ENot only was that petition circulated around Nelson and Christchurch but also it was available at National Party electorate offices in the run-up to last year\u2019s election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d7a321863c9489f95ea3f979bee2eb5\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Was it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222886774bc35d4ebe9de2cb1ee882753f\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. Members of the National Party were encouraging their supporters, would-be constituents, and voters to sign the petition. They said: \u201CCome and sign the petition. Make sure you support it, because we as a party in Government are going to deal with the noise issue. We are going to make sure that the noise gets reduced from 95 decibels to 90 decibels.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EOf course, we have not heard a word in the debate on this bill around that issue. There has truly not been an explanation from the Minister as to why that did not occur. Perhaps the reason is that finally, after years of talking up this issue, National realised that there were between 50,000 and 100,000 ordinary Kiwi mums and dads who happened to own a car with a noisy exhaust system who could be faced with fees of up to $500 if they were forced to take that back to the original muffler system. Maybe that was the penny that dropped in the ranks of the National Party, even though Nick Smith, as the environment spokesperson, was saying that it was environmental vandalism for 95-decibel cars to be allowed on the roads, and even though Kate Wilkinson, Gerry Brownlee, and Nicky Wagner were also saying that we need to deal with this issue and were telling constituents in Christchurch that we must reduce the noise from 95 decibels back to 90 decibels. So maybe the penny dropped. Maybe they began to realise that that is why the issue had not been tackled by the then Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003ESo there was the opportunity in front of the new Government to deal with this issue. All sorts of pledges, promises, and indications were given to the electorate last election, and I know there will be many, many people in Christchurch who will feel disappointed, to say the very least, that they have not been listened to. [Interruption] No, I would hope that Nicky Wagner would call a public meeting, as she has done several times on this issue, to explain why she could not get the support of her colleagues on this bill, because that was the raison d\u2019\u00EAtre and the basis of her campaign, not just in 2008 but also in 2005. Repeated pledges, undertakings, and assurances had been given to voters in Christchurch Central, and across the Christchurch electorates, that this issue would be addressed by the incoming National Government. There we were a month away from election day, with a bill that provided a perfectly legitimate vehicle for this issue to be tackled, but the Government was not prepared to follow through on the undertakings given by its members when in Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EAgain, we see a situation where we have people who are quite prepared to be lions in Opposition but lambs when it comes to Government. It is very easy to talk up an issue, it is very easy to call public meetings, it is very easy to operate a website saying we are going to deal with this issue, it is very easy to send out petitions and regular newsletters, and it is very easy to work with the Noise Off lobby and say \u201CWe are going to deal with this issue.\u201D That must be a very disappointed lobby group tonight, because I think Jonathan Gillard and the members of Noise Off would have had every expectation and belief that this National Government would fulfil the promises and undertakings given to constituents in Christchurch. They had an expectation that they would have seen action on this issue, but in fact a deafening silence is left in its place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI will turn to a couple of other aspects of the bill. I note, now that Minister Collins is in the House, her acknowledgment that this bill and its companion measure are not, as one or two other members opposite have claimed, the first action taken on these issues. This is an ongoing response from Parliament to the terror and tyranny that boy racers can present to electorates such as mine. I suspect this will not be the last that we see of the issue. But this legislation is attempting to tighten some of the nuts and deal with some of the loopholes that sometimes clever, if devious, people are able to find in legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI note that many of the actions being introduced under this bill are in fact already covered by existing legislation, particularly Labour\u2019s Land Transport (Unauthorised Street and Drag Racing) Amendment Act of 2003. An example is that the existing law allows police officers, who believe on reasonable grounds that a vehicle has been operated in an illegal street race, to impound that vehicle for 28 days. Now we are seeing that period moved so that the capacity for vehicles to be impounded on a second offence is for up to 90 days. I commend and support those kinds of measures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI have some questions about the way the select committee has dealt with the issue of passengers drinking in cars. Quite recently I visited some businesses off Tuam Street in my electorate, a major thoroughfare. It is not the Tuam Street frontage that has been affected; around the back is a cul-de-sac where boy racers gather. Tens of thousands of dollars worth of damage has been caused to businesses by boy racers parking up, drinking up, smashing bottles, pulling down coverings to windows, climbing up drain pipes, and pulling them down\u2014tens of thousands of dollars worth of damage has been caused. I think that the to leave this to local body by-laws is not providing the necessary teeth that might be required to deal with that. I am very conscious that the Law Commission report covering all aspects of liquor law has been released. I understand that we have seen some 400 submissions on that process go to the Law Commission. There will be a final report to Parliament before the end of this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI hope the Government will look very seriously at whether leaving it to local authorities gives sufficient power to enforce the issue of drinking in cars, because the sorts of mayhem that I have described in that quiet cul-de-sac off Tuam Street is but one example of the sorts of problems that are emerging. We already have in Christchurch a by-law that prevents people drinking anywhere within the inner-city area. So it is absolutely forbidden, whether one is sitting in a car, sitting on the riverbank, or sitting outside, yet that sort of damage is being caused. I hope the committee\u2019s position on that is picked up, developed, and enforced by the Government when it responds to the Law Commission review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EIn summary, I think that the bill does take some steps in the right direction. It deserves to be commended for that. There are some loopholes that deserve to be filled. There is no silver bullet on this. Noise is an issue that I think will have to be addressed by this Parliament\u2014that absolutely will need to be addressed\u2014but this is a good step in the right direction, and Labour is very, very pleased to be able to support this bill. We believe that it will fill some of the loopholes. However, I do believe that this will not be the last that this Parliament sees of these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d35bf7ba830e472bab9e2aada8f04a7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d35bf7ba830e472bab9e2aada8f04a7f\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to take what will probably be the final call in the third reading on the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill. Given that this is the first time tonight that I have spoken on this issue, I take the opportunity to thank the officials for their very good work through the Committee stage, and also during the deliberation on this bill by the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. I am sure the officials are around, because the companion bill will be debated shortly by the Committee, so there is still some work to do. This opportunity is my one chance to thank them for that effort. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI also thank the hard-working chairman of the select committee, David Bennett, not only because he told me I should but also because I think he did a very good job. In fact, I am surprised that other members of the select committee, particularly those on the other side of the House, have not joined me in doing so. It strikes me as symptomatic of the very passive-aggressive kind of approach that members on the other side took in the select committee. They sat as quiet as mice when we were talking about some of the issues, yet they were up like lions in the Committee stage, saying things that were not part of the select committee process. I will give members one example.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4d598dbc1bb4aa1ba4749b3c9f1f4b0\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Did the member shut up for long enough to listen to anyone else?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f75b13ec855a4d4897cb575c00000b8c\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278f790e5ac8140d297fac77b57a3fa69\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Did the member shut up for long enough to listen to the other members of the committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b766c42a3f704bc28bfe77f83201d10c\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, goodness me, that is the Cosgrove interjection, is it not? I am sure Labour members are being paid by the word tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7284dbcb4484b5fbeb49344240b2906\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just want to be helpful. Either that member may be colour blind or there might be a sight problem: that is Mr Hughes; I am Mr Cosgrove.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efba748a0fd54bfdbb74f46c236bcb13\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the member what Standing Order he is talking to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247fee69d4f6e48618e8f2c1b35f85293\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Misrepresentation\u2014106.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259293e2765d74751824292ab3f0adcc9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: There is no Standing Order on colour blindness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286987338fd28458bb2152901d14402c8\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: I can assure the member that I knew exactly which member I was referring to, although it is not surprising that he checked, given that it appears there are doppelgangers on the other side\u2014people who look very much like the select committee members, but could not possibly be, because they do not act as if they were there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI am very interested in Ms Beaumont\u2019s plaintive cries that somehow this Government is working just a little too hard for her liking. Every time a bill is reported back to the House, she is concerned that we have rushed it through, or that we have not considered it. Well, that is what a determined, deliberate, carefully considered, decisively acting Government does. In fact, the member was very concerned about the officials. I think the officials relished the opportunity to get clear, articulate questions in a timely manner that they could report back on. It probably made their lives easier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI will also touch on a point that Ms Fenton made in the Committee stage about expectations being raised. Frankly, in relation to this bill, the only people who were raising expectations were those on the other side. We have always said this bill is a very important step on a journey. It is not a magic bullet; it is not going to solve all the problems. Members on the other side know that. If they did not, they would have said so in the select committee, or they would have come here with a minority report or a Supplementary Order Paper. All we have had is bagging, and no constructive contributions to the discourse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI will finish by touching on three important areas that were raised by members in the Committee stage. They concern the police. I congratulate the police and also the Police Association on their contribution to this discussion. They raised some very good questions. In relation to police resources, we have heard ad nauseam that they will not be enough. I would much rather take the advice of the police on that issue than the advice of members on the other side. The police told the select committee that they have the resources to give effect to this legislation, that it will probably make their role easier, and that it will free up resources for doing other things. I am very happy to accept that; they know best. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI will also touch on the \u201CThey will know it when they see it.\u201D comments, and the derisory response we got from the other side. That insults the police. It says that the police are too stupid to distinguish Mr Cosgrove\u2019s grandmother who is rolling around the Kaiapoi Pak \u2019N Save car-park\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fcc51e98a694f9ca4b09b2c233ce966\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Both of my grandmothers are dead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbbd52b8d27f4aff9f896cef6ef1c794\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014well, OK, I defer to the member on that\u2014or a campaign contribution, or the Christmas parade from what we are talking about. I think they would be insulted by that sort of logic. On the other hand, I have every confidence that they know what they are talking about, that they will act appropriately, and that they will use their constabulary discretion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe last thing I want to touch on is noise. Boy, have we heard a lot of noise about noise. I want to refer to Nicky Wagner\u2019s new campaign manager, Clayton Cosgrove, and remind him that although there are some serious issues with illegal street racing in Christchurch, it is not the centre of the universe. We have issues in Auckland, Hamilton, Lower Hutt, and Dunedin. The fact that the Canterbury members on the other side who have spoken are not members of the select committee should not be a problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThere was very careful consideration of the noise issue, and I am really surprised that those members on the other side who were on the select committee could be so dismissive of that. We had the officials arranging noise tests out the back of the parliamentary precincts. They were very helpful in understanding that an arbitrary noise limit would not be effective. We also heard from the police that they believe that the powers given to them through this legislation, although it might not be a magic bullet, will definitely aid their attempts to rejoice\u2014reduce\u2014the amount of noise coming from illegal street racing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b81535c887e4393a959a178fc52bb5b\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Rejoice!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022777435df56d44591b732b20c4c2358f1\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: It might not be a case of \u201CRejoice!\u201D, but it is certainly an improvement. For that reason, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa19e172c08446afabc9a1e777b5b7b7\u0022\u003EVehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f0528ea930124e598af6fafa050663fc\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225067e0c8809e4647b657848e6cd276b7\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Sentencing Act 2002\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00229647f480e3d94228a2adca1bc4188c9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229647f480e3d94228a2adca1bc4188c9b\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chairman\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223307555f1ed44432996d2880299e63ad\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: A few bald patches in this building!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269eb9c3d14d543e281d76306382c56c2\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: That is the pot calling the kettle black, is it not? At least I am not trying to cover mine. There is a bit of fertiliser going around this Chamber as well, I would say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill is a companion bill to the one we have just debated, the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill. It is a companion bill because together they deal with the issue of boy racers. As Tau said, it is part of the wider wh\u0101nau and how we are working together across all parties in this Chamber on this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIt is unfortunate that the largest Opposition party, which is all it is at the moment, has not been able to support this bill in the nature it supported the previous bill. That is to the detriment of this Chamber and of that party. It shows that those members are not serious about trying to find a solution to these issues. They are trying to over-politicise issues that the Government has made serious attempts to fix. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis bill has a number of parts to it, but one key bit is the crushing of vehicles. That is what it will be known for as a bill, but that is not the only thing that this bill deals with. However, it is something that many people will consider to be this bill\u2019s legacy. If we look at Part 1 of the bill, we see that it basically deals with confiscation and destruction. Those are covered by new sections 129A to 129F of the Sentencing Act 2002, inserted by clause 8. They deal with some of the key elements of that concept of confiscating and crushing vehicles. There are a number of other offences in this legislation that deal with things such as the sale and disposal of motor vehicles and conditions on the dismantling, deregistration, and confiscation of vehicle. Essentially, Part 1 deals with the heart of the legislation, in the sense that it refers to the confiscation and deregistration of a vehicle, and the potential for the dismantling and destruction of a vehicle in certain cases. That is the nature of the legislation. It has a process that one has to go through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis bill is part of the suite of legislation we have put together to deal with the boy-racer problem. We support it in this Chamber, and we look forward to the parties in this Chamber supporting it so we can deal with the issue once and for all for the good people of New Zealand. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc8620c8a74b48afbba54355e4cee1e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc8620c8a74b48afbba54355e4cee1e5\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I begin where I began in the second reading of the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill, and that is to commend the Minister in the chair, the Hon Steven Joyce, for a couple of points. To be fair, there are a number of loopholes that are closed through this legislation. As I said in the second reading, when I tried to push my bill through, a number of years ago, I did not anticipate\u2014I cop that, and neither did the police, or transport agencies who gave advice\u2014the loophole regarding third-party ownership. I commend the Minister for closing that loophole. I think that is a good thing. I do not think it should matter who owns the vehicle; if there is an offence, it should be dealt with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe second thing I commend the Minister for is the hardship provisions in the bill that have been tightened. I anticipated, as was the advice at the time from the Ministry of Justice, the Ministry of Transport, and the New Zealand Police, that judges would use the full powers of the legislation and confiscate cars, as they can do today, on a first offence and they must on a second offence. Sadly, as the Minister of Police has publicly said, and I think she is partly right, through the loophole judges have not been able to exercise the full option that they can. Also, judges have taken a view, as is their right and privilege, that permanent confiscation is a secondary or tertiary option. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EAlthough we have some difficulties with this bill, we will show the Government the courtesy it showed me when I pushed my bill through, and we will support it. But we do so because there is an issue of accountability. We have put up Supplementary Order Paper 73 because although this bill does a good thing and closes a loophole, it goes further. It closes the third-party loophole and allows someone to potentially move on the vehicle owned by a third party. That is a person who has not committed the offence but one who owns the vehicle in which an offence has been committed. The difficulty is that this was trumpeted by the Minister when she said that all the boy racers would be closer to the crusher; they would have all their cars crushed. We will get to that little bit of idiocy in a moment, but the problem is that the current legislation says that the court may take the vehicle for ever from an owner and an offender on a first offence, but must take the vehicle\u2014and that is the key point\u2014on a second offence in 4 years. That is as it should be and that is how it will go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut when we get to a third party, the Minister went further than just closing a loophole; she went and weakened the legislation. I quote from the Police\u2019s own advice to the select committee: \u201CIf you are a third party owner and somebody takes your car\u201D\u2014and we know that over 50 percent of these vehicles are signed over in their mates\u2019 names; it is not dad\u2019s or mum\u2019s car, it is their mates who sign their cars over in their respective names\u2014\u201Cand commits an offence, firstly the owner gets a letter.\u201D The owner will be shaking in his or her boots when he or she receives a letter to say that somebody has been very naughty in his or her car. Then there is a second offence. What happens? This is how tough this Minister is. On a second offence in 4 years the owner of the vehicle will get another letter saying that somebody has been very, very naughty in his or her car.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a18bfdc17baa41af9f1c22cffde96a19\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Call your mum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ac91ca8eb6548c988ca052b414ada09\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, right! Call your mum! The boy racers are shaking in their boots after two letters have been received by the third-party owner of the vehicle. Then, on a third offence in 4 years\u2014and here is where the rubber does not hit the road\u2014the Minister has taken away any reference to mandatory confiscation or even mandatory crushing. What happens on a third offence is that a court has the discretionary right, on a third offence, to take the car permanently and/or crush it. There is no \u201Cmust take it\u201D; there is no \u201Cmust crush it\u201D. After receiving one letter that says one is naughty, and then two letters that say one is naughty, on the third occasion a judge can toss a coin or do what he or she wants to do, and exercise his or her discretion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe only defence that the Minister has put up to justify that is that it strikes a balance. We know the Ministry of Justice\u2019s briefing is that that strikes a good balance. The little hoon who terrorises people around the show flicks ownership of the car into his mate\u2019s name, because this is not about somebody taking mum and dad\u2019s car. The owner then receives another letter, and then a court might do something. That is really tough, is it not? I am sure that when Judith Collins was wandering around saying: \u201CI\u2019m going to sort this out.\u201D, when she was swaggering around with her six-guns saying: \u201CI\u2019m going to have all the cars crushed. I\u2019m going to sort it out.\u201D, communities did not know that there was no mandatory provision. If one is a third-party owner, the courts do not have to do anything in respect of crushing or permanently confiscating vehicles. Labour has introduced an amendment that simply says that if one is a third-party owner and somebody runs amok in one\u2019s vehicle, that owner does receive a letter to say that if it happens again the car will be taken. A court must, and will, take his or her vehicle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EEvery parent I have talked to has had this reaction: \u201CWell, if my son or daughter took the car and I got a letter saying the car was going to go because of what they did, I\u2019d sort it out pretty quick.\u201D I think that strikes a fair balance. But really, this is not about striking a fair balance with mum and dad. We know, from the police evidence, that these kids do not take mum and dad\u2019s car. They flick the ownership into their mate\u2019s name. The Minister has said that many times herself. A fair balance would be: \u201CJohnny, somebody\u2019s run amok in your car. Here\u2019s a warning. Next time, the court will take it.\u201D Labour has put up that amendment, to be helpful. Labour thinks it is in line with the existing legislation that if one is an owner and an offender, the owner gets a warning and then the car goes. I think that is tough, and I think that is what the communities want. We offer that to the Minister in good faith. She said to me in the House: \u201CYou\u2019ve never come to see me about it.\u201D No. There is a Supplementary Order Paper here, and it is pretty simple if one understands one\u2019s own legislation. It was on the Order Paper this morning, which is far more notice than that Government ever gives Labour members, when it drops hundreds of pages of Supplementary Order Papers on us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe Minister and I will be on Morning Report tomorrow\u2014we are going to duke it out on radio over this one. Labour does not support the crushing of vehicles, but it will not torpedo the bill. I will tell members why. It is because it does not work. What evidence do I cite, before Government members interject on me? I cite the Minister\u2019s own words. The Minister, on Radio New Zealand\u2014and we have the transcript\u2014and in other places, when asked: \u201CHow many cars, Minister, will be crushed?\u201D, do members know what she said? She said 10. But that was not the rhetoric that was used as she built up a big head of steam over months on the crushing issue. No, she said that everybody will be closer to the crusher. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E I say to the Minister that in Christchurch there are 1,000 boy-racer cars a night, on a bad night, on a Friday or a Saturday night. I know that Christchurch is not the centre of the universe, so I cite Hamilton and other places. The Minister says that 10 cars a year are likely to be crushed. Then when pushed on it on Radio New Zealand, she said: \u201COh, but I know the judges will do it.\u201D I say to the Minister that she does not know that, I did not know that, and no one knows that, but I hope they will. The Minister is a lawyer and she does not know that the judges will do that. It is 10 cars a year that will be crushed, which proves it is a stunt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e88f9711c1ba4707be9cec98b031fda4\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s more than you\u2019ve done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b773db4aedc448eebd42745f4c3aea89\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have 10 cars. We can see the photo opportunity now, of the Minister hitting the button at the first crushing. I wonder whether the Minister would be prepared to tell us why crushing 10 cars a year is going to work. What sort of signal will that send? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThen there is the other issue, of course, about somebody whose vehicle might be the only asset that person has. The Minister has put out a press statement saying she is going to have cars recycled back into the community. If, by the Minister\u2019s own words, only 10 cars a year are going to be crushed, then this press statement from her is bunkum; it is absolute bunkum. There is no evidence, and the police have produced no evidence, to say there will be recycling. We can dispose of the car any way we like. I say we should maximise its value, because most of these people have fines and court costs, and I do not think the innocent should pay the fines and court costs of the offender. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut there it is. Ten cars a year will be crushed. That proves it is a stunt. We have 1,000 boy-racer cars a night in Christchurch, and hundreds of such cars a night around the country, and the Minister is condemned by her own words. Only 10 cars a year will be crushed. How many people out in the real world actually thought, when the Minister was going around, huffing and puffing, that it would be only 10 cars a year? \u201CEvery car will be closer to the crusher.\u201D, she said. She is desperate, absolutely desperate, to get this crushing clause through, so that it can be worn as a badge of honour. At the end of each year she will have 10 badges of 10 cars, as 500, 600, or 1,000 cars maraud their way around Christchurch. That proves it will not work, and that proves it is a stunt. I say to the Minister that even the Police Association, in its own submission\u2014and the Minister is wont to quote the Police Association\u2014said: \u201Cthe car-crushing provisions are unfortunately \u2018a side show that looks good\u2019 \u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0df3fcb3a2242f48055a9790a0d0733\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0df3fcb3a2242f48055a9790a0d0733\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E It was very interesting to hear the Hon Clayton Cosgrove speak. He has taken the last two calls in this debate on the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill, and has talked particularly about his Supplementary Order Paper 70, which proposes mandatory confiscation of a substitute\u2019s vehicle\u2014that is, a vehicle owned by a third party\u2014after a second offence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWhat he failed to mention in his last two speeches was that his Supplementary Order Paper also proposes to omit the provision for the destruction of cars of recidivist boy-racers or illegal street racers. He has forgotten to tell the very good people who are listening to this debate that he is too scared to send these cars off to the crusher. Apparently it is all to do with the fact that he does not want to have stunts. It is a bit rich for that member to talk about stunts or strutting. I think we have all seen quite a lot of that from him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThis bill tidies up the loopholes left by the previous Government\u2019s legislation, which was championed by the member who has just resumed his seat, Clayton Cosgrove. That legislation had the best of intentions, but it did not work because it had loopholes that one could drive a Mack truck through and still not touch the sides. National has listened to the people. I thank the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, and its chair David Bennett in particular, for the work it has done on this bill. This bill has come back to the House with amendments. I am surprised at the member Mr Cosgrove, who is now speaking so passionately about the bill, because he did not once attend a select committee hearing or listen to one of the submissions. If he was so interested in the bill he would have attended the select committee, but he did not. Instead, we now have a Supplementary Order Paper from Mr Cosgrove that simply does not deal with the issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe police are looking forward to this bill coming through in its entirety. They are particularly looking forward to having provisions with some teeth in them. We would like to see no cars crushed, because that would mean that this bill has done its job of stopping unwanted behaviour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThis bill is not about retribution; it is about public safety and about listening to the people. I believe that Part 1 goes some way towards giving back to the people of Canterbury, Hamilton, Lower Hutt, Dunedin, Palmerston North, Rotorua, South Auckland, and now west Auckland some of the power to have their roads used for legitimate purposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2143894838b40359ff86147e6aeed01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2143894838b40359ff86147e6aeed01\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to respond on behalf of the Labour Opposition to the Minister\u2019s comments, and to note that in her contribution the Minister failed to mention a couple of things. First of all, she did not mention that under the provisions of the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill there is no mandatory crushing or confiscation of cars. She can talk tough all she likes, and she can talk about loopholes\u2014and Labour supports closing loopholes\u2014but we need to be honest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThis Parliament needs to put on the record that this bill does not provide for mandatory crushing. It is all just a bit of a media stunt. There is a whole lot of talking up an issue that is important to a whole lot of people. I was on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, and I heard about how this issue is hurting people, and about the damage it is doing to them. That is why we have tried to be helpful to the Government by proposing an amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI acknowledge my colleague Clayton Cosgrove and the work he has done over the years on this issue. It is not a new issue for members on this side of the Chamber. We have been working on it for many, many years. We hoped that we would get some cooperation from the Government in the interests of community safety, because we want to see this bill work. We want to see it do what it was originally proposed to do, and to see it close the loopholes that, we freely admit, were there. Another speaker said earlier tonight that we may have to be back in a year closing loopholes and addressing this bill again. Well, what is wrong with that? That is the nature of making laws. We do not always get everything right the first time, and I predict that we will not get this one right the first time either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI feel very, very sorry for the people of Christchurch, Hamilton, and other cities who believe that this bill, which the Minister has gone through the country talking up and talking tough about, will not deliver. That is why, as I said, Labour members have offered a solution to the Government. We were looking forward to hearing from the Minister whether she would support it, but I guess we have gathered that she is not going to support our Supplementary Order Paper. The thinking behind our Supplementary Order Paper is that it does not really make a lot of difference to offenders whether their cars are confiscated or crushed, because, either way, they lose their cars for good. That is the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236cbec55d8f04b34bc1d2b9c0055c641\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Just wind her up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c694d57a743a45348ddaac653d5f0706\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Hon Tau Henare trying to tell me, over there? He is trying to remember his days in his V8, is he? He is trying to remember the good old days and to relive his glory days in the old V8 out in west Auckland\u2014in the 1980s, was it not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223b66a60cea34c2787633350fe90b24e\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Seventies!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fcb249cd4854399842604b05348f526\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, was it the 1970s? OK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe only people who will suffer from the crushing of cars will be New Zealand taxpayers, who will essentially foot the bill for unpaid fines that cannot be recovered. The Minister likes to talk tough, but it turns out that the new confiscation and destruction order will be only a last resort. It is not mandatory. The court may order a vehicle to be destroyed, and it can do so only if the offender has been convicted three times within 4 years. That is a higher threshold than the current law has for mandatory confiscation of a vehicle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWe have, as I said, tried to offer a solution to what we see as an important issue. I think everybody on all sides of the Chamber is genuine in trying to find some solutions to this awful problem for communities. As I have said many times, I fear that the public have been led to believe that this bill is a solution, when it simply will not work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ceffaa9076de44989452be0967e2fffc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ceffaa9076de44989452be0967e2fffc\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E This is what I do not understand: if a member admits that there is a loophole in the law that needs to be closed, why would the member table a Supplementary Order Paper that reopens it? If a member wanted to strengthen the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill, why would the member put in a Supplementary Order Paper that weakens it? That is what Supplementary Order Paper 75 does. It really underscores the confusion that Labour members have concerning this part of the legislation. The Labour minority report from the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee said that this bill would amend the situation around section 129. It does no such thing; the provisions in section 129 that relate to the owner and offender remain. There is the mandatory confiscation of the car if the owner who was an offender commits a second offence. The member Clayton Cosgrove, by his own admission, said there was a loophole: people were selling cars to each other and they were transferring ownership willy-nilly. This part of the bill will fix that. Why he would raise a Supplementary Order Paper that completely undoes that, I do not know. It would also put the vehicles back on to the market. Who is the market for illegal street racers\u2019 vehicles? It is illegal street racers. So what are we going to do? We will have the situation where cars are completely recycled, and I cannot see that as being an improvement whatsoever. So we really have to shoot the Supplementary Order Paper down in flames, and see it for what it is: a confused response by a confused party to very clear legislation that will improve things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI also strongly endorse the Minister of Police\u2019s comments around the number of cars that are crushed. How can a party possibly think that a high number of crushed cars is success? Surely, the opposite applies. The magic number would be zero, because that would mean we had improved compliance and reduced illegal street racing. For that reason, I cannot support Supplementary Order Paper 75, and I strongly support Part 1 of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u00226b590104ce7a4d95beff23e2cb852b12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b590104ce7a4d95beff23e2cb852b12\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I start by saying that Labour members are supporting the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill with amendments. We will continue to support any genuine efforts to make progress in this area. That is because this is a serious issue. All of the speakers from this side of the Chamber and, frankly, all the speakers from that side of the Chamber have acknowledged that this is a serious problem. I acknowledged when I spoke last time not only my colleague Clayton Cosgrove\u2019s effort but also the fact that the Government is doing something in this space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EWe are trying to raise areas where there are concerns. I think that Mr Woodhouse\u2019s contribution was a little confused. He started out by saying that Supplementary Order Paper 75 weakens the provision, but that is actually one of the Government\u2019s Supplementary Order Papers. We put forward Supplementary Order Paper 73, and we intend to put up a proposition to toughen this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI also start by acknowledging the people who submitted to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee on this bill. There were 58 of them. A lot of those people did not actually support the crushing part of the bill. Those of us who looked at it carefully saw that there are some very useful things in it; I want to add my comments to those made by Mr Cosgrove about the closing of the loophole regarding third parties. I think that is a very sensible move. That is a very good part of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EBasically the bill has a number of provisions. They include strengthening, supposedly, the powers of the court to order confiscation; empowering courts to order destruction; and strengthening provisions to seize motor vehicles to enforce collection of unpaid fines. I will focus particularly on the first two of those provisions in this initial contribution. As it stands at the moment, the focus has all been on the crushing provisions. Those have been, if you like, the window dressing that has shown the Government being tough. Already we have heard quite a clear contribution from Mr Cosgrove. He pointed out how tough, in fact, the legislation is. It says that offenders have been bad; then it says that they have been very, very bad; and then police might think about doing something about it. We need to be looking at real progress that builds on the legislation that was put in place by the previous Government, the Land Transport (Unauthorised Street and Drag Racing) Amendment Act of 2003. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EWe should also\u2014and the police supported this\u2014be looking at why the courts have been so hesitant in this area. We did not have a lot of conversation on that area in the select committee. We did not really nail what the issue was there. Basically, the rate of confiscation under the provisions of the current law is less than 2 percent. It begs the very real question that the police raised: if the courts are not using those current confiscation powers, what makes the Government think they will use the new destruction powers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a71cb2bcf5b4b86bc03dfd972a227bf\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Closing the loopholes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4f0c60435554b698bad26e1f809e589\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT\u003C/span\u003E: The loophole is one part of it, and that is a positive, as we have said. That will deal with one of the issues, which is cars being registered in someone else\u2019s name. But that is not the only reason why rates of confiscation are so low. We think, and this is the reason for our Supplementary Order Paper, that the focus should be on toughening up the current law so that vehicles are confiscated on a second offence, as the law intended. Really, it makes very little difference to the offender whether the car is confiscated or crushed because, either way, they do not have the car. I think that is the point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EWe have talked about the fact that maybe 10 cars a year will be crushed. That does not seem to be all that tough. I think that the amendment that has been put up on Supplementary Order Paper 73 is worthwhile. I ask the Government to seriously consider supporting this amendment, because both the Government and the Opposition have said they want to deal with this problem. Both have said we should get tough on some of the people who are making other people\u2019s lives a misery. Well, here is an opportunity to improve the bill that is before the Committee. Supplementary Order Paper 73 effectively provides for an amendment that will make it mandatory for a vehicle to be confiscated on a second boy-racer offence. That is what we will ensure. We do not agree with the crushing of cars, and we think that mandatory confiscation on a second offence\u2014even when owned by a substitute for the offender, a third party\u2014is a very useful contribution. I ask the Government to consider supporting it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u00226f60a45f71814f4f88a8e8df095d9eda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f60a45f71814f4f88a8e8df095d9eda\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak on the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill in the Committee stage. I wish to make it clear that Labour supports this bill. The point we are trying to make in this debate is that the purpose of this bill was to toughen existing legislation that Labour introduced in its attempts to deal with the problems created by boy racers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Police, in her introductory remarks, talked about the need for behavioural change\u2014not the need to be vindictive, but the need for behavioural change. I have to ask what behavioural change we will see from boy racers, who are smart, if somewhat ill-tempered people at times\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226590b18526604f6cb98bf51cc3983b55\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Aw!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022010353edab044f118fcb8993e511b856\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and nasty, even; nasty! If we go through a process, when they have swapped their registration with their mates, where the first offence brings an \u201Cooh-ooh\u201D warning, then another offence takes place and another wet-bus-ticket warning arrives, and finally on the third offence there is a possibility that a judge may order the crushing of a car. What signal does that send to that boy racer? I do not think it sends a signal at all. When we are dealing with potentially 10 cars being crushed every year nationally, and my city of Christchurch makes up 10 percent of the national population, does that mean, I ask the Minister, that we will see one car crushed every year in Christchurch? What effect and what signal will that truly send when we have hundreds and hundreds of boy racers out on any given weekend around the avenues of Christchurch. Is one car being crushed a year supposed to create behavioural change? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThat is why I support the Supplementary Order Paper from my colleague Clayton Cosgrove. I really believe that, as a Parliament, we are looking for an attempt to toughen the existing legislation. It is acknowledged that the legislation that is in place currently allows confiscation of cars on the second offence, but for some reason or other known only to judges, that does not seem to be happening as we believe it should be. Our Supplementary Order Paper simply says that a notice goes out to whoever owns the car, be it the mother or the mate of the offender, saying that if the offender does it again, the car is gone. There is no second offence warning; the car is gone. It is confiscated, and the car is either sold or it is dismembered and sold for parts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe other point to remember about crushing, as we acknowledged in the commentary accompanying the bill, is, given we have a problem with fines being paid by boy racers, who will pay the cost of crushing? Who will pay the fines? I ask who will pay all of the costs involved. If the car is sent off for crushing, which will end up turning it into a metal cube of no real residual value, who will pay? That is why we are putting forward a Supplementary Order Paper in a genuine attempt to acknowledge that this bill has a number of good measures that pick up on the legislation introduced by the previous Labour Government to try to deal with the menace of boy racers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EWe say let us not talk tough; let us truly get tough. Let us say to boy racers that if they are caught for an offence that can see a car being confiscated, they get one warning, and, on the second offence, that car is gone. It is \u201Cgone-burger\u201D; it is history. I think that if the Minister is genuine in saying that she wants to see behavioural change, rather than taking some sort of vindictive approach or seeking a photo opportunity, this amendment will effect much more behavioural change, because there is no second chance. With regard to cars that are owned by mates or mums, when that first notice comes through the letterbox and says that this guy has done it and the car is history if it happens again, I think that will truly effect some behavioural change on the part of the people who own the cars. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EWe are saying, as an Opposition, that we support the bill. We want it to go further, and it deserves to go further. We do not want to see this matter back before Parliament again. That is what we want to see, and we will support this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002293a9e53caddd45dab4101c59f9ca8d3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293a9e53caddd45dab4101c59f9ca8d3d\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I will start by quoting from the Police Association on this car-crushing bill, the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill. The Police Association said a very interesting thing in its submission to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. It stated: \u201Cthe car-crushing provisions are unfortunately a \u2018side show that looks good \u2026 but [which] in reality will have very little effect\u2019.\u201D That is what the Police Association said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI will address what Mr Woodhouse, I think, said about the recycling of cars. We cannot have it both ways. If we want to prevent recycling, as the member said, then we would have the mass crushing of cars, which is what the Minister in the chair, the Hon Judith Collins, basically told everybody would happen. Everybody would be \u201Ccloser to the crusher\u201D, she said in baritone-like tones. But now that the Minister says only 10 cars a year will be crushed, I ask the member how that will prevent recycling. That is nonsense; it is complete bunkum. It is a complete stunt. Everybody out there thought that the Minister was talking about mass car crushing, when she said everybody would be \u201Ccloser to the crusher\u201D. Then she said\u2014and we have the transcripts; she said this on at least three occasions\u2014it would be 10 cars a year. Well, I am sure that boy racers will be shaking in their boots, knowing that 10 cars a year, out of the thousands that cause mayhem around the country damn near every day, will be crushed. I am sure they are shaking in their boots at the thought of 10 cars going per year. It is just illogical, and it is a stunt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIf the Minister wants to have any credibility in this debate, she ought to explain why she gave everybody the impression that there would be mass crushing, but now says it will be 10 cars a year. I tell the Minister that that is not being tough. That is being weak. That is being incredibly weak, and we know that this Minister really wants to appear to any audience to be tough. I bet that people out there did not quite realise, when she was scooting up the popularity stakes over this bill, that only 10 cars would be crushed per year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister whether she will accept our amendment. The amendment simply states that instead of sending out two naughty letters\u2014one letter to say somebody has been naughty, and then another letter to say a judge might actually do something by ordering that the car either be crushed or be confiscated car permanently\u2014one letter will be sent to the owner of the car to say that if somebody runs amok in the wagon again, it is gone, and to say a judge will order that. The amendment takes away the option of merely not crushing the car, because if the car is not crushed it would be confiscated permanently. I asked the Minister whether, if she will not accept that amendment but is desperate to keep the crushing provisions in the bill, she will put forward an amendment to say there will be one warning and then the car will be subject to mandatory confiscation and mandatory crushing. She might have thought about doing that if she wanted to be really tough, but she has rejected that without giving any logical reason for doing so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThere has been no real evidence of recycling. If anybody thinks that a boy racer who loses his $30,000 souped-up Nissan Skyline can nip around the corner to Turners Auctions and spend another $30,000 to buy it back, then I say that person should wake up. The car does not have to be sold as a whole; it could be disposed of in parts, as my colleague said. It could be disposed of in a number of ways, but the value would be preserved. We may wonder why we would want to preserve the value of a boy racer\u2019s car, when he or she has gone around and made life difficult for people and caused havoc for the community. Boy racers, as a number of folk on both sides of the Chamber have said, normally have a heck of a lot of fines and owe a heck of a lot of court costs. If we take their car away from them, often it is the only asset they have. I am not getting teary-eyed over boy racers, but I think that the smart thing to do would be to utilise the value of the parts, the bits\u2014or of whatever form the car may be in; I do not mind\u2014to pay off the court costs and the fines, the tow truck fees, and the full disposal costs, rather than to have innocent folks in the community doing that through their taxes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIt will be interesting. Maybe the Minister will propose an amendment, if she is desperate to keep the car-crushing clause in the bill, to say there will be one warning, and then a judge must take away and/or crush the vehicle. That would give the Minister what she really wants, which is the photo opportunity with her finger on the button and her hands on the launch codes of the crusher. I ask her whether she will propose such an amendment. It would be really interesting to have her response on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI wonder whether Nicky Wagner, who did not speak in the noise debate\u2014she was rolled on the 90 decibel issue\u2014but who had put a stake in the ground and said the Government would sort the matter out, is prepared to go to the people of Christchurch and say that in the case of a car owned by a third party, the first thing that will happen if somebody runs amok is that the third party will get a letter to say somebody has been naughty. The third party will then get a second letter, maybe a letter from Judith Collins herself to really scare him or her, saying that somebody has been really naughty. Then on a third offence, Nicky Wagner will be able to tell her community, small though it is, that a judge may, if he or she sees fit on a good day, if the stars are aligned, take the car forever and/or crush it. But there is nothing in the bill in respect of a third-party owner that says a judge must act in the way I have described, whereby the car is taken, or crushed, or both. There is nothing in the legislation; it is entirely up to the judge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister that I\u2014even in respect of my legislation\u2014and the police believed in our learned judiciary, and believed that judges would act on this issue. Even those people who did not go through the loophole that the Minister has quite rightly closed believed judges would act on the issue. Even the Police Association, as I have said, called the Minister\u2019s crushing of 10 cars a year a sideshow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI support the legislation, because I think what happens to our communities is an indictment of boy racers. We are offering goodwill on this side of the Chamber. We will support the bill, but we are offering an amendment. The Minister may want to put up her own amendment, which may agree with the provision in the amendment that relates to mandatory confiscation and crushing on a second offence. We are offering some assistance in this way, but it will be very interesting to hear the Minister\u2019s explanations as to why a third-party owner receives one letter that says somebody has been naughty, receives another letter to say somebody has been even naughtier, and then it is all over to a judge. It is a lottery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EHow does the weak Minister explain that? She wants to be seen as tough. How does she explain that, and how\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232f24b0a870e4f5f8c2e3a5dc694eb97\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Jealous!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222839707df75f44dd84b91edd492bf4c8\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I am certainly not jealous, I say to that member in all sincerity. I am certainly not jealous. That is a silly comment. How will Nicky Wagner or Gerry Brownlee in Christchurch, or other members, explain that the Minister is so tough that someone receives two letters and then the decision is up to a judge. Everybody thought that all the boy racers\u2019 cars would be lined up, and maybe Gerry Brownlee would attend personally to do the crushing himself. People believed the cars would be lined up and crushed one after another. In the immortal words of the Minister, which are etched on to the memory of every journalist, every car was to be \u201Ccloser to the crusher\u201D. That is what she said. People thought it was a good thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI can understand why people want these cars to be crushed: they thought it would be done en masse, and they thought it would get rid of the problem. Now that the Minister has been forced to come clean, she said on Radio New Zealand National, when challenged about the 10 cars that are to be crushed per year, that she knew judges would order this. Oh, really? Well, maybe she has a crystal ball that the rest of us do not have. Maybe she has received commitments from judges who have said they will crush 10 cars a year. But the Minister cannot have it both ways. If Mr Woodhouse is worried about recycling, then why would we not crush the cars en masse? Why would we not make it compulsory that the cars be crushed? The bizarre schizophrenic argument that is now brought up is that the Government members do not think the mass crushing of cars is a victory. Well, the Minister did say it would be; it was a cause c\u00E9l\u00E8bre for the Minister. This was her big Clint Eastwood moment in the sun, in MGM gun-slinging style. Everybody believed that the crushing of cars en masse would occur. I thought that would occur until I saw the legislation. I could not believe what I saw, because I thought the Minister would be as good as her word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022735d8aeca3e040bd8624288163c20605\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: You can\u2019t look us in the eye.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbfffb8fe4d44854b6efa1916a671676\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I can look that member in the eye. Absolutely! It is a pity he cannot make a decent argument. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister that members on this side of the Chamber have some goodwill. We have put up Supplementary Order Paper 73 in my name in good faith. If she wants to amend it to preserve her crushing clause, she could do it. My amendments say someone would get one warning as a third party, then the car would go for ever. That is far tougher than any clause in this bill. I do not beat my chest over that, but I offer that measure to the Minister. I ask her to give me a good reason why we should give someone two letters that say a driver has been naughty and then leave it up to a judge to decide what happens to the car, other than the Ministry of Justice advice that the legislation provides a good balance. Well, the Minister should tell that to the people of Blackett St in Rangiora, who are terrorised by a hoon each night. The owner will not control the vehicle, because the owner is a mate of the person who offends, yet the owner will get two letters from the police that say somebody has been really naughty and then it will be up to a judge. How tough is that? How will the Minister explain that to a person in Blackett Street, which is in my patch and has been particularly hit hard by boy racing? Is she prepared to give us an explanation now? Is she prepared to tell us why somebody should get two warnings, and then it is up to the lottery of a judge\u2019s decision as to whether the car should be disposed of in any way? Is she prepared to answer that question? She is not so tough now. There is silence. There is silence from all of the members on the Government side of the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut I want to be given an explanation. I really want to be given an explanation, and I know that the communities would like to be given an explanation. Maybe as the debate on this bill goes on, we will get one. The bill ain\u2019t tough at all, and the Minister knows that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 69 in the name of the Hon Judith Collins to Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226216214f8ac6459a97a5879276ff05a9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 113\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000805\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 73 in the name of the Hon Clayton Cosgrove to Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b5a237e1b3dc4a2bafad523ad49652a5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 44\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 78\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; Green Party 9; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b142ce3fba154cb09959967562e6b983\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 113\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e8e991e7b62d4b8eaa67d53f6de2e9b2\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to Summary Proceedings Act 1957\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1a945b86a894984b3db51e37bbfe71b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1a945b86a894984b3db51e37bbfe71b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Clause 28 of the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill deals with written notification in regard to fines. In the time we have left, which is very little, sadly, I find it interesting that a written notification has been put in place in respect of this part. We just debated this on another part, and I will not re-enter the fray on that, but it does not fill us with confidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id200910200191cf558a0940bb9a20498d8bb0b38d000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002272c8d360cc964ed1bbb332d2ef8efc06\u0022\u003ETuesday, 20 October 2009\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f5ac5eca73ad4c87a62213161d42d276\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 21 October 2009)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c22bc2acc0e3469f8ad8c10aa351753e\u0022\u003EVehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022be9b358a082e424ea3ad64c4c1858f73\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c875b3f351374a75adf075d340ede08d\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to Summary Proceedings Act 1957 (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022e22132e15157451fb73b53805a0629ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e22132e15157451fb73b53805a0629ea\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Part 2 deals with a number of issues in terms of making an attempt to reduce traffic offending by strengthening the powers of the courts in respect of the seizure of motor vehicles. I will concentrate for a moment on new section 100L, which is to be inserted into the Summary Proceedings Act by clause 28. This provision authorises the sale by the court of a motor vehicle if any fine remains unpaid. We pose no argument in respect of that provision, but, without rehearsing the debate on Part 1, I would point out that there was a lot of debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EAn argument was put forward last night by Mr Woodhouse in respect of the 10 cars that would be crushed per year\u2014the 10 badges of honour that the Minister will wear. He said that there would be a large amount of recycling if this was not done. But that argument seems to be suspended in animation when we look at this provision. The argument is dissolved because, under new section 100L, a court can authorise the sale of a motor vehicle if any fines are unpaid. I have no problem with this. I think that is fine, but I just point out to Mr Woodhouse and others that it will be interesting to see whether the recycling argument that they rehearsed last night will be rehearsed again today. The so-called issue of recycling has not dissolved; the problem, though, is that no evidence has actually been produced\u2014and I do not think this would have been a problem\u2014by the police, the Ministry of Justice, or anybody else in respect of the recycling of vehicles. Boy racers are unlikely to be whipping round to the back end of Turners Auctions as their $30,000 Nissan Skyline or Jaguar goes under the hammer to attempt to buy it back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMr Brownlee is an expert when it comes to those large-cylinder vehicles. I recall that he had a powder blue Jaguar at St Bede\u2019s College. I say to the Minister, who is looking quizzical, that that is a type of car. But I know that he was not a boy racer. In fact, I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203ab4d4b149a42c5b78c81a3daee6045\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, come on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b80083d63fcf44fc91f4d7365c609cb6\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, well, maybe he was; I will leave that for him to decide. It is very hard to believe that a boy racer will nip round the back of Turners Auctions as his $30,000 Nissan Skyline is going under the hammer in order to buy it back. I think the arguments put forward by Mr Woodhouse are fictitious, unless some evidence\u2014that would be nice\u2014could be put forward. We support these provisions, but with the rhetoric that we are hearing, I would also point out that one would think that this is not being done now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI am sorry to harp on about Christchurch, which is a great part of New Zealand, but if one goes out with the police at any time there, one sees that they have developed very, very good and practical sting operations. They also have other operations when they just send out incident cars\u2014plain-clothed cars. I was out one night with a couple of young police officers, and I saw that they have, today, the ability under the law to pull over anybody if they think that something does not feel right. They can pull over the young person, or the old person, or whomever. They can go through the registration and the warrant, they can check out the car, and they can also have the bailiffs and the court on standby\u2014as they do\u2014right through the night when they are doing these operations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIf it was Mr Brownlee in his Jaguar who owed a few fines, then they could say that they are sorry, but the tow truck is on its way unless he pays the bill. The car will be on the tow truck, and the tow truck is gone. I am sure that Mr Brownlee would never engage in that behaviour, good soul that he is, but the point I am making is that that happens today. It happens nearly every night of the week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI know this because I have often been in the back of a police car over many years. The police can pull people over if things do not feel right, and not just where a driver is boy racing, or girl racing. They can pull over drivers\u2014they have done this\u2014and they can say: \u201CHang on, I don\u2019t think this feels right.\u201D They can check the vehicle through. They can look at the vehicle to see whether it complies. And, by the way, they can ring the bailiffs, ask them to put the details through the computer, and find out whether Mr Smith owes any fines and costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI recall being on Moorhouse Avenue one night when a young fellow was pulled up in this way. He gave the police what ho. The police professionals stood there and took it. I, as a lesser mortal, would probably have been less restrained. They told the driver that he owed $5,000 and, unless he paid up, the car would be on the tow truck. He rang mum. Mum\u2014a rather affluent looking person\u2014 pulled up in a Mercedes. She put her arm around Johnny, lambasted the police for what they had done, which was the correct thing to do, and said that it was not Johnny\u2019s fault. I ask what he learnt by that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe support these measures, but we just say that some of the arguments put forward last night will be negated today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f408b7a0aaaf4cac859e9eaf95233f7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f408b7a0aaaf4cac859e9eaf95233f7a\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to take a call in respect of the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill as we go through Part 2 of this important legislation. I reaffirm, as we enter a new day\u2014although it is still the same day in terms of parliamentary sitting time\u2014that Labour strongly supports this legislation and its progress through the House. However, we are trying to make sure that Parliament does not have to revisit this bill on an ongoing basis, because it is our very firm belief that although the bill includes very many good measures, it still has a gap in respect of how we best deal with the issue of the confiscation and seizure\u2014the very name of the bill\u2014of boy-racer cars. The Minister of Police has been stating that she wants to see behavioural change in respect of boy racers, and our very clear position is that it will not be achieved by the measures involved with car confiscation and crushing, if, indeed, we go through the process that this bill outlines. That process involves boy racers who have a deal with a mate or a family member for the car to be owned by somebody else. The driver does some illegal drag racing or burnouts, the police pull him up, and they then send a warning to the owner of the car. Under the procedures of this bill, a second warning is then sent, and then finally on the third offence the car may be seized\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b71be118f6644ce874c2404b6625e79\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: May be!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd0e7bfa344446c7a585e13580f94cdc\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014may be seized\u2014and, at the discretion of the judge, if there are not extraordinary circumstances that he or she wishes to take into account, the car might be crushed. The estimate from the Minister of 10 cars crushed a year nationally could mean that in my city of Christchurch, with 10 percent of the population of New Zealand, we may see just one car crushed a year. I hardly think that that will deliver the sort of behavioural change that is needed. Labour wants to see behavioural change because the boy-racer menace affects many parts of the country, and none more so than my electorate. I was thinking last night about the visit I made earlier this year to a woman living on Fitzgerald Avenue who has moved out of her home and gone to live with family because she has had a gutsful of the menace that is brought. It is not just the noise; it is the ongoing behaviour and the threats that have been brought against her\u2014quite a strong older woman\u2014over the years. It has worn her down to the point where she has left her home without, I believe, having sold it, because it is sometimes quite difficult to sell properties in that area of Christchurch because of the menace that these boy racers bring. She is a strong person who, after years of going out, watching the boy racers, taking down the number plates, and trying to do her best to give the police the support they need to deal with the problem, has finally called it quits and moved, at considerable cost to herself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI think the police deserve the best possible support that we can give them, and I truly do not believe we are doing it with this bill. It has a kind of pyrrhic quality to it, in that a few cars may be\u2014may be\u2014crushed, but there is no signal to boy racers that they will lose their cars. That is really what is needed, and that is why I strongly support the Supplementary Order Paper tabled by my colleague Clayton Cosgrove. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EAnother visit in my electorate reinforced the need for some really tough legislation on this issue. It was a visit\u2014again, earlier this year or late last year\u2014to residents living off Edgeware Road. They were not actually on the circuit of the boy racers\u2014they were well away from the four avenues\u2014but had the unfortunate experience of living a few houses away from a property where boy racers were resident. Of course, on a Friday and Saturday night the boys like to begin their evening by doing a few burnouts up and down that street. These people want tough action against it, and I believe they want to see the strongest possible measures emerging from this Parliament to deal with the problem. I do not think they would look at a bill that sees perhaps one car a year taken off the streets of Christchurch as a truly effective behavioural signal to the boy-racer fraternity; I think they would be strongly looking at the Government to do the very, very toughest that it can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI believe the Supplementary Order Paper from my colleague Clayton Cosgrove would, indeed, deliver a tougher message. It would give a signal on the first offence that if the boy racer does it again, his car will be gone, confiscated, sold, and out of his ownership, and he will not be able to get it back. One or two members opposite have suggested that this will simply allow boy racers to go and buy their cars back. I challenge any members opposite who want to state that again to give us some evidence. A number of inquiries have been made about that issue, and no evidence has been put up to suggest that that is, in fact, happening. If we think about it for a moment, how could it happen? If we are putting up for sale a car that is worth $10,000 or $20,000, and if we have people who have no credit history, who often have bought the car on a long stretch of credit, and who in many instances have a large number of fines against them, where will they find the cash? If they are buying the car at Turners Auctions, they will have to buy it via cash. They cannot put it on the never-never. They have to be able to actually buy the car, so I ask how they will be able to do that. If any member wants to raise that issue again, I ask him or her to bring some evidence to the Parliament that that happens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003ELet us look at another aspect of crushing. Here we are, as a nation and as a planet, debating issues like climate change. We need to make the best possible use of our resources. Crushing might have a photo opportunity attached, but if the car has plenty of miles left in it still, I ask what on earth is the sense in putting a perfectly good vehicle, one that admittedly may have been used for some heinous purpose, and which perhaps may need modification to put some decent tyres and other things back on it, into the crusher. Perhaps one car a year will be crushed in Christchurch for a photo opportunity for the Minister and, no doubt, one or two other National members from Christchurch, all so that they can stand there and have their photos taken with a car that is being crushed. That is what it is about. It is not about delivering the best possible outcome in terms of dealing with the menace that boy racers present, both in my city and many other parts of the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThere is a very viable method here, and I think my colleague Clayton Cosgrove has even indicated a preparedness\u2014and the Government has this opportunity\u2014to amend the Supplementary Order Paper to maybe look at crushing after the confiscation on the second offence. That is something that the Government could dwell on. It would then be making the bill tougher than it is currently. But at the moment there is no signal to the boy-racer community that this Government truly wants to be tough on the issue. This measure would, in fact, send the real signal to them. It would say that if they misbehave, they have one chance. Everybody deserves one chance, but people certainly do not deserve three chances, with the possible outcome of a judge maybe sending a car to be crushed. I commend the Supplementary Order Paper to the Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002242caa8615bda4cf48b8f538841fba513\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242caa8615bda4cf48b8f538841fba513\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I remind the member who has just resumed his seat and who is a new member, Brendon Burns, that the Supplementary Order Paper to which he refers was voted out last night. We are not debating it this morning. We are debating Part 2 of the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI will refer to a couple of main points in Part 2. There has been some discussion this morning about why warnings are to be given to people who have an interest in a car, and why these cars are not simply seized and sold. That provision deals with the fact that some of the interests in the cars are those of finance companies, banks, and parents. When we are putting in place legislation like this, which can be considered quite Draconian from some people\u2019s points of view, we need to have a balance of interests. There is no point having legislation that people do not believe is fair. We have one of the best police forces in the world. The New Zealand Police is, in my opinion, almost the best in the world, if not the best. One of the reasons why the police have one of the most fantastic success records in terms of public confidence\u2014and I saw just yesterday a release about yet another new high of public confidence in the police\u2014is that the public expects the New Zealand Police to act fairly and within the law. It is very important when we are taking away nana\u2019s car, mum\u2019s car, or a finance company - owned car that we act fairly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI actually believe it is very important that a finance company knows exactly what is going on with its security, so that when it gets its first written warning about what is being done with the car over which it has security and which it has lent a lot of money to secure, it can take action. The company understands that when a car is lost\u2014it is gone, it is sold, or it is crushed\u2014it has lost its security. I believe that finance companies will start taking action. Certainly when I was growing up, and when a lot of people in this Chamber were growing up, young people could not get new cars. They could not borrow from finance companies to buy cars, because, basically, those companies were much tougher about the ways in which they lent. Over the last 10 years or so there has been a great loosening up in that lending, and one of the results has been that a lot of very high-powered cars have been sold to people who cannot control them or their own behaviour, unfortunately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThere has been a lot of talk about how much crushing there will be. Actually, the point of the bill is stopping the behaviour. For a party that says it is opposed to the crushing part of the bill, yet says it is opposed to the bill because it is not tough enough, I think Labour really needs to get its rhetoric right. This bill is actually not about me. It is not about photo opportunities. It is actually about trying to take some action that means something, because the previous Government, despite its very best efforts, frankly could not put a bill together on this issue that had any standing at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons that the judges do not under the current legislation use confiscation and surrender of vehicles as much as was expected is that the legislation has every sort of loophole available. Frankly, judges have to be able to apply the law as presented by Parliament. We have made it perfectly plain in this legislation that we expect that the judges will apply the law because that is what they do. We are giving judges discretion in terms of what happens to the cars of the worst recidivist offenders. If judges feel that they cannot use that discretion, we would like to know why. I actually think that judges will use it. We have to get the law right. We have always said that this legislation will not be a silver bullet. But it is a vast improvement on the previous Government\u2019s pathetic attempt, which, I have to say, anybody with a law degree could have seen had loopholes right through it. It was very, very difficult legislation. Of course, one has to give the previous Government credit for at least trying, but it did not try hard enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EPart 2 of the bill, I believe, will deal with the issue of people who sell their cars before the court has been able to take action and confiscate them. That is one of the big loopholes. On the subject of what happens when people\u2019s cars are put up for auction, I have some news for Mr Burns. When one buys a car at auction, one pays whatever is the highest price bid. That is how an auction works. People do not actually turn up to an auction and say that because a car is worth $20,000 they are going to pay $20,000. I tell Mr Burns that what happens at an auction is that a car might be worth $20,000, but if the highest bid is $300 that is what is paid for it. That is how it works in the real world. I know that is not something that members opposite have a lot of experience in, but that is what happens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EAs for the question about where the evidence is that boy racers send their friends along to buy up a car at $250 or $300, I ask the member why he does not ask the police when he is strutting around police stations. That is what they say. The police in Canterbury tell me that that is exactly what happens. When Sergeant Nigel Armstrong was attacked by boy racers earlier this year, I went down to Christchurch and I asked them there why this behaviour was still going on. The police said that the boy racers\u2019 mates turn up at the auction, they buy the cars for $250 or $300, and they are laughing. The police say that they are laughing at them. They are laughing at the previous legislation. This part of the bill is one of the steps that we are taking to close that loophole. If they want to keep laughing, they will end up with their cars crushed, frankly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1e200346cbd4cbfb897a25b086ce443\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: 10 a year\u201410 people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5e3e26a32ab49918934ecdf72dcb85e\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: The member calls out \u201C10 a year\u201D. Actually, I hope that they get the message that we mean business, and hopefully they will stop their behaviour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abf5e9e230ce4c948c1795e82f603ccf\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: You said all the cars would be crushed. You said that all the cars would go to the crusher.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4de2737b40949c3b9fa7a505e6c536f\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Unfortunately Mr Cosgrove consistently makes up these things in the Chamber. Frankly, we know that the cars will be closer to the crusher. Mr Cosgrove really needs to consider that he has been so mean-spirited all year about this legislation, asking earlier this year what will happen to poor grandad\u2019s car. Now he is suddenly asking why we are giving grandad a chance to take some action about his grandchild. On one hand he said that we should not have the cars crushed, because it is Draconian. Now he is complaining that we are crushing only 10. Well, for goodness\u2019 sake, Mr Cosgrove really needs to get with the programme and understand that the people of Waimakariri, who almost voted him out last time, will definitely do it next time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIt is very, very important that we focus on behaviour. This is about public safety. It is not about media opportunities; it is about public safety. When those people decided to take on the New Zealand Police this year, to threaten them, and to shoot at them, they took on more than they ever bargained for. This Government supports the New Zealand Police and it supports the law-abiding people of New Zealand. This Government will not stand by and say that it is all too hard and we cannot do it, which is what the previous Government did .\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022 data-id=\u002293ea85c93f0b4f2eac76e25265125629\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293ea85c93f0b4f2eac76e25265125629\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I will take just a short call to follow up on Mr Cosgrove\u2019s point\u2014he graciously acknowledged that I had one\u2014regarding recycling through sales. He told a story, which sadly is all too believable, of silly mummy in the Mercedes turning up and comforting little Johnny, who had several grand worth of fines. It is no surprise how little Johnny became like that. Sadly, there is probably no surprise about how he will turn out as he gets older. But one source of the money is right there: silly mummies from Remuera or Fendalton who think little Johnny can do no wrong, and who, if the car is confiscated, will turn up at Turners Auctions with the gold card and buy back the car. I personally get all of my old dungers from Turners, and I can recommend it as a place for an absolute bargain. I think I got my last car, which was valued at about $2,500, for $1,200. As the Minister in the chair, the Hon Judith Collins, rightly says, at the dunger end of the market where there are no reserves, the highest bid gets it. Of course, a seized car will not have any reserve, at all, so $2 might get it. That is one point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EThe other reason that we support the legislation is that it enshrines that wonderful principle of \u201Cthree strikes\u201D. It gives a chance, gives another chance\u2014and I would be a bit less generous than the Minister, I have to say, which is probably no surprise\u2014and gives every opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022640e74a402b740ca9bdb193935cda67e\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: How many chances would you give?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbefbd94d71c414595f1be1bba1f7e9b\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: I think two is probably right, with crushing on the third. The point is that judges need to be given the tools, and this is the place where they are given the tools. But judges also have to use them. I know all the lofty arguments; I wrote essays in law school about who has the greatest influence in our constitutional arrangements. The answer is\u2014and Professor Joseph would agree with me, although he would use more elegant language\u2014that the sovereignty lies here, and if judges do not take the signal then we will be back next year. I put on record that if it is necessary to back Mr Cosgrove to make an amendment to this legislation in order to make crushing mandatory, or confiscation, or whatever will work, then we will support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002216ee84e657874b75b6f0126d872db98b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216ee84e657874b75b6f0126d872db98b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I thank Mr Garrett for his bipartisan approach. I think it is the second time in almost a week when the ACT Party has pulled the rug out from under the National Party. First was the levies bill, which ACT was very sceptical about. Mr Garrett said exactly the same thing, in that he would be back here to back us if the legislation did not work, and likewise with this legislation today. I will address a couple of points that the Minister made in her speech. It was an astounding contribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ENot many months ago, the Minister of Police, Judith Collins, said, like MacArthur\u2019s \u201CI shall return\u201D statement, those infamous words \u201Cevery car will head towards the crusher.\u201D They will be burned and etched into our memories. This Minister has declared war on everyone. She has declared war on gangs, war on P, war on boy racers\u2014war on everyone. She is the General Custer of the Parliament, except General Custer had a last stand. He had a last stand. Suddenly we had a speech today that is all about fairness, balance, and not wanting to be Draconian. The Ministry of Justice\u2019s notes are riddled with the term \u201CWe need balance\u201D, but this is not about photo opportunities. It is not about sending a signal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022640ad24454a2483fad3c8694a29723d0\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cc7a524e2e34d6ba886d84f62baa853\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I tell the Minister in the chair, Judith Collins, to hang on a minute. I invite the journalists who might be taking an interest in this issue to go back and read the transcript of the Minister\u2019s statements and the media statements. Somehow, Labour is now being too tough. The Minister said that she thinks that grandads, parents, and finance companies should have due warning so that they can retrieve their vehicles or provide a remedy if someone has taken their vehicle and run amuck. In the case of a finance company, it can preserve its assets. No one on this side disagrees with the Minister on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThis is what we disagree on fundamentally. It is not parents\u2019 cars that kids take and run amuck with; they take mostly\u2014one in five, according to evidence the police gave before the select committee\u2014their mates\u2019 cars, change the ownership, and run amuck. The Minister said that herself. She is trying to construct an argument that in the case of parents whose sons or daughters take their cars, somehow the Labour Party will give them only one warning and then the car is gone, and that is terrible. There are two problems with that. Firstly, kids are not taking their parents\u2019 cars; they are\u2014deliberately\u2014taking their mates\u2019 cars. I do not think we should give quarter to that. Secondly, all the parents I have spoken with have the view\u2014including a couple I talked to in Belfast a week or so ago\u2014that if they got a letter, a warning, saying that little Johnny had taken their wagon and run amuck and that the next time he does that their car is gone, well, they would sort it out and that would not happen again. Likewise, I believe that a finance company should get a warning to say that its client who owes it $20,000 on a car has run amuck in it. We say give the finance company one warning and then take the car. I suspect that finance companies will put clauses in contracts in the future to say if they get a letter, if they get the encumbrance, the finance company will come around and take the car off the boy racer the first time themselves in order to preserve that asset value. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut the problem is that the Minister has found her kinder, gentler, fairer, more balanced side, which translates to the fact that she is weak; she trumpeted around the country that she would get tough. We believe that the appropriate balance is to give one warning to the third party, and, if the offence happens again, the court must take the car. On a second offence, a court is required to take the vehicle in the same way as provided for in existing legislation that the Minister has preserved. If someone is the owner and offender, the court may take his or her car on a first offence but must take his or her car on a second offence within 4 years. But this Minister, given how tough she is, has written into law that third-party owners will get a letter if someone takes their car and commits a first offence. That is how tough that Minister is. They will get a letter saying that Judith Collins says that someone has been very naughty in their cars. On the second offence, they will get another warning letter that says that Judith Collins says someone has been very, very naughty in their cars. Then, on the third offence, it is up to a judge. There are no mandatory provisions on a third offence in respect of cars owned by a third party that says, as with an owner and offender, that a judge must take the vehicle. That is what we proposed last night and the Minister would not accept it, given how tough she is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say that Minister has hoodwinked people. I ask whether the people in Kaiapoi, in Blackett St, and in Hamilton will think that this Minister is tough on boy racers when, after a third offence of making people\u2019s lives hell in the streets of New Zealand\u2014after shaking in their boots when they got a letter saying \u201CYou\u2019ve been naughty\u201D, signed off by Judith Collins, Minister of Police, and then a second offence saying \u201CYou\u2019ve been very naughty\u201D, signed off by Judith Collins, Minister of Police\u2014on that third offence, it is up to a judge. I wonder how tough the Minister of Police, Judith Collins, will be viewed by people in respect of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EOn recycling, I say that the Minister has provided no evidence apart from hearsay. She told me to go around some police stations. Well, I have, and I do; it would be good if she did. But the ones she turns up to are the ones she opens that the previous Government built and then claims the credit for. Well, I hold up the evidence that was before the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee that the New Zealand Police provided. Here it is, in black and white. In this document there is no evidence, provided by a professional, excellent, hard-working effective police force, that talks about recycling in the numbers. It produces numbers in respect of changes in ownership\u2014one in five people. It produces numbers of offences, fines, crashes, fatalities, tragedies, and industries, but there is not one figure in here in respect of recycling. Yet the Minister gets up and thinks that it is OK to say go and talk to the police. I do, and I have for many years. Maybe there was a slight oversight. Maybe a line dropped off the presentation at the select committee. But I would have thought this Minister\u2014smug though she is, sort of the Cheshire cat of the Parliament\u2014who is so humble, and who cannot get the smile off her face, would get up and say: \u201COK, fair go. I\u2019ve made a claim that there\u2019s mass recycling all over the show. Here is the evidence, Parliament.\u201D But she said nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to that Minister that we support the bill and we support it for a couple of reasons. We support it because I believe we should show this Government the courtesy it showed me when we had a crack at this issue. I agree that there are some loophole changes. [Interruption] I cannot even give these guys a compliment without Mr Quinn going troppo over there, but that is OK. We know which room he should be in in the Parliament. The second reason is that the bill does close some loopholes around hardship and around third-party ownership. But the other reason we will let this go through is it will give us a very, very important point, a litmus test, to judge and hold this Minister accountable. We believe this legislation is not tough enough, and we put up a very simple Supplementary Order Paper. We said that we do not support crushing for two simple reasons. One is we support permanent confiscation\u2014it should be mandatory. After the Minister told New Zealand that all the cars will be heading to the crusher she admitted, and she even admitted it again today, that about 10 cars a year\u201410 cars a year\u2014will be crushed. I am sure the boy racers are shaking in their shiny shoes. I am sure they are terrified of Judith Collins pushing the button 10 times a year on the crusher. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe other reason we do not support it is it makes no sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec34fa1b6fde43268b80754fcf612292\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: You just said you do support it. Where\u2019s this guy at?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f1ea727e38b450c97e1d57cdd637261\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: We do not support the crushing provision but we support the bill. If the member is going to go nuts, I say to him that the reason we cannot vote against one clause in Part 1 is because we are voting on Part 1 in totality. He says he is a lawyer but he does not understand when we debate a bill part by part. So there are parts of Part 1 and Part 2 that we do support. But we only get one vote, I say to Mr Quinn, who is a silly, silly member. The other reason we do not support crushing and we support permanent confiscation\u2014[Interruption] Oh, the members on the opposite side of the Chamber are awake now; the lattes have kicked in. The other reason we support permanent confiscation is because we can dispose of a vehicle in a certain way, for instance for parts, whereby we can realise the asset value of that vehicle and use that asset value to pay the fines of the offender, and not have the innocent pay the fines and the court costs through taxes. That will be the only result of what happens with crushing cars. It is 10 a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u00222af6105334ad4f939799497b0b15044b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222af6105334ad4f939799497b0b15044b\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 69 in the name of the Hon Judith Collins to Part 2, and the following amendment in her name to clause 28 be agreed to:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003Eto omit from new section 100TB(2) \u201C100N(2)(d)\u201D and substitute \u201C100N(1)(d)\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fff5184fd7dd4a60b565af9b2298d7c2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 113\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022377e864a1e7a46d1b6c9ed7b2a00e40f\u0022\u003EPart 3  Amendment to Privacy Act 1993\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00228d3511a1c3ee4991a67fd2799aca0ce9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d3511a1c3ee4991a67fd2799aca0ce9\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The debate on this part includes the schedule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8b04ed52fe449c1b3b76ddc72bade3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8b04ed52fe449c1b3b76ddc72bade3a\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E It was interesting to hear the Minister\u2019s comments in respect of Labour\u2019s position on the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill. She said we are being too tough. I find that a little ironic. I reflect back to the accompanying bill, the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill, which was passed last night, where we had another example of a party talking tough but going easy. Like this bill\u2019s companion measure and the promises and pledges to deal with the issue of noise decibel ratings that failed to materialise in it, we have a similar issue here about how we are actually going to enforce the seizure and confiscation of boy racers\u2019 cars. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe comments from the Minister about how the bill needs to be framed to make sure that grandad does not lose his car are interesting, because most of the cars are not owned by grandads; the boy racers do a swap procedure where one owns the other\u2019s car and vice versa. The measures of this bill allowing three warnings before a car may\u2014just may\u2014be seized and crushed will hardly send the sort of message that the community is going to be frightened in its boots about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EWhen we talked earlier about the issue of cars under the alternative proposal of Supplementary Order Paper 73, tabled by my colleague Clayton Cosgrove and now defeated by the Committee, the Minister suggested that if cars were to go to auction, we could see a $20,000 car being sold for $300. It was interesting to hear David Garrett comment on that. He was talking about an old dunger\u2014I presume he was referring to a car rather than himself\u2014and how he had bought a $2,500 car for $1,200. I think that is more the order of things. We tend to be able to buy cars at auction at considerably less than their value, but certainly not at some sort of giveaway price in most cases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d00754fbff704a81b6a78f04302be722\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: Mine had a reserve. Theirs will have no reserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272610356462b42228adc1e863353d05b\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if finance companies were likely to have a very, very major interest in most of those cars going to auction, under the proposal that Labour tabled, does the member think that finance companies are going to let their interest in a motor vehicle disappear? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b45e40ede8c4e53858ab351526447d0\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. Now you\u2019ve got it! You\u2019ve finally worked it out, Brendon!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a246c3715cc2481a9b94b18e51e14804\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: I ask Mr Quinn whether he can give me an example of where a finance company, on any piece of asset in this country, would allow its interest to be given away at some sort of fire-sale price. Not at all! There is no prospect of that, whatsoever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe Minister then suggested that the police wanted the crushing mechanism because they said that it would deal with the concerns that they have. That is interesting, because my clear understanding is that when this issue first came up at the start of this year, the very clear call from the police in respect of how best to deal with the boy-racer issue was for the Government to introduce a cease and desist mechanism, whereby the issue of where boy racers assemble and congregate could be dealt with. The police\u2019s proposal was that after a first gathering of boy racers on a street corner, at a set of traffic lights or wherever, if the police saw behaviour that was going to lead to disorder, they could issue a cease and desist order, and the next time such an assembly took place the boy racers would be walloped. So if the Minister is saying that she wants to be tough, and if the Minister is saying she is doing what the police asked, could she comment about what happened to the cease and desist order idea?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EWe have in its place a bill that says \u201Cthree strikes and maybe\u2014just maybe\u2014you will be out\u201D, but that was not what was indicated. I have a press report from earlier in the year reporting that when the legislation was introduced to Parliament in May, Judith Collins claimed: \u201Cevery offence\u201D\u2014for street racing\u2014\u201Cwill bring them closer to the crusher.\u201D Will they be closer to the crusher with every new offence? Well, we have discovered that that is not the case. What we will see is a \u201Cthree strikes\u201D policy, and maybe\u2014just maybe\u2014a person will be affected if the judge decides to be tough. That is why it was a shame that last night the Committee did not support the Supplementary Order Paper tabled by my colleague Clayton Cosgrove, because, as David Garrett has indicated, I think we will be back in the Chamber quite soon looking at these issues again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EIt was interesting to note that Mr Garrett, as a member of a party that supports the \u201Cthree strikes\u201D policy, suggested that he would like it to be a \u201Ctwo strikes\u201D policy. I say to the member that he had the opportunity last night to propose an amendment to amend Labour\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper. He could have supported it, but he did not. So, effectively, he is voting for something that he does not have that much belief in. How can he and his party do that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002211e629788b4c44a1ad556dbfbf94d353\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211e629788b4c44a1ad556dbfbf94d353\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Part 3 is actually about the Privacy Act, but as the previous speaker, Mr Burns, has ranged wide and free, I think we should correct a few of the statements he has made. What he is doing, and his party has consistently done today and last evening, is to repeat the errors that they made in Labour\u2019s minority report to the House. I hate to disabuse them of this, but, frankly, a substitute\u2019s car\u2014in other words, a car that is owned by someone else\u2014can actually be confiscated on the second offence, after one warning. That is provided for in new section 128(2)(b), which is inserted by clause 6. Their comments show that, yet again, they have not read the provision. So whatever the Labour members on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee were doing, they certainly were not listening when the officials from the New Zealand Police and the Ministry of Transport were trying to tell them what the bill said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EMr Burns has made some comments about finance companies. He seems to think that they will miraculously turn up at auctions and buy back cars or stop them being sold. It is a good point, except that under the legislation that the Government has inherited from the previous Government, the finance companies had no idea what was happening to the car, because nobody ever told them. What this legislation does by its written warning procedure is advise the finance company about what is happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIn picking up on Mr Burns\u2019 comment about finance companies, I believe that one of those written warnings, delivered by a member of the New Zealand Police, will make a very strong statement about the security of the asset. I believe that they will have it stated in their finance agreements, if they do not already, that if their asset is being used illegally, then they will take action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022907f96a995824ae2899065f950523f44\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Make it one warning. Why make it three warnings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df29a34f9e3c4f8dbb5b7e799b9af506\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: The member calls out and asks why we should give them three warnings. Well\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227960706c63af4434a1a7efe174d97fa3\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Two warnings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b05d6f66fe6406f9b3cce13eafcfdcf\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014two warnings, now he says. It is three warnings, rather than two warnings. I think it is very important that the member understands that it will take only one letter to make the message very plain to these finance companies, because, as Mr Burns rightly says, they do not want to lose their security. But at the moment they do not even know what is going on. They do not understand that the car is being confiscated or sold off. They do not understand what is going on, because, frankly, nobody tells them. How are they supposed to suddenly know that that is happening, unless we tell them? That is one of the very important provisions that we have in the bill. This is not about taking cars off people; it is not about any of that. It is about the behaviours, and the people most likely to influence behaviour are the people who have the right to take the car. In most cases we will find that finance companies can do that, if they know that their car is being used illegally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI commend this part to the Committee. This part has amendments to the Privacy Act, but I think it is important that I correct some of the misstatements made both today and yesterday, and actually for the last 6 or 7 months, by the Labour Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a0cf8cf637e42e8820f15cfebceffab\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Carol Beaumont but before I do, I just want to bring members back to Part 3. This part is very narrow, and I ask members to concentrate on that part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022824cb4ed93744395b2686828e2b50929\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022824cb4ed93744395b2686828e2b50929\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I think there is quite a bit of precedent, and it happened in Part 2 when the Minister was the first to initiate comments that ranged far wider than the part. The Minister brought other material into the debate, and we must be able to address that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261a526b8735b4076ab99875d941cec03\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. I have allowed a pretty wide-ranging debate on Parts 1 and 2, and there has been a good exchange. But Part 3 has only two clauses. It is very narrow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f72e443bb33414e9d11ffc7c74ef3cc\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: She didn\u2019t have to say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220571c679aba0427ebeeff9d8abdc3236\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister was responding to the previous speaker, who had canvassed other areas, and she did say that, but she also identified that Part 3 was about privacy provisions. I am asking future speakers please to concentrate on the two clauses in Part 3. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u002290fafc9f18834381b3a3d9e615a02200\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290fafc9f18834381b3a3d9e615a02200\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on Part 3 of the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill, \u201CAmendment to Privacy Act 1993\u201D. Clause 29 states that Part 3 amends the Privacy Act. Clause 30 and the schedule amend schedule 5 of the Privacy Act, which authorises Government agencies to access law enforcement information held by other specified Government agencies. The amendment serves the purpose of giving the Ministry of Justice access to police records relating to vehicles impounded for 28 days and access to personal information on the drivers and registered owners of these vehicles. Labour members support these provisions. As a number of us have been saying throughout this process, we support a significant number of the provisions in this bill as part of a further strengthening of legal options around the issue of illegal street racing and boy racers. The reason we support it is that we understand the seriousness of the problem. Again, to set the record straight, I say that the previous Labour Government put in place very strong legislation, which still sits on the statute book and is stronger than what applies in Australia, for example. I acknowledge that work. The Minister has previously acknowledged that work, and I recognise that fact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThis is an attempt to close some loopholes and, in that regard, we fully support that work. That is not what this part of the bill is referring to, however, and I have taken on board the Chair\u2019s comments. We are talking about amendments to the Privacy Act. We have no difficulty with these provisions at all, but in relation to the comments made previously by the Minister, I say that some elements of the select committee process worked a lot better than others. Certainly, the submission process worked very well. I think that everybody got a great deal of benefit from the process, both from the submissions of individuals affected by the issue of illegal street racing, which was particularly profound in Christchurch, and from the submissions made by various organisations, such as the Automobile Association, the New Zealand Police, and the Police Association.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EIn speaking to Part 3, I have to note that no submissions were made on this part. But I noticed that the select committee worked less well in some other areas, particularly around the deliberation and consideration stage, where quite complicated matters were being rushed through, with the officials being put under unreasonable time constraints to produce documentation and deal with the questions being raised. I note that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EIn concluding, I say that Labour\u2019s view is that we support much of this bill. Our sole purpose has been to ensure that where it needs to be tightened, it should be. We say\u2014and, in fact, members across the Chamber say\u2014that we are serious about this issue. If we are serious about this issue and if we can toughen up on some of the provisions, then we should. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EPart 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022893678ad93e64a4fadee5678ef11da2c\u0022\u003ESchedule agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002226d51217382f472ea80606950ef50024\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022e29b624840d544ddb0b5d8aba5e03bd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e29b624840d544ddb0b5d8aba5e03bd8\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E The title of this bill is the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill. Without labouring the point that has been made by others\u2014and that is despite a lack of generosity from the Minister, but that is what we have come to expect\u2014I say that Labour members support the bill. As my colleague has said previously, we support many of the clauses and the ideas contained in this bill. Why would we not? We have raised a number of issues, especially in relation to the level of warnings and the level of powers that courts are given, or are not given. The title of this bill could be perceived to be a bit of a misnomer, because it could be the \u201CVehicle Confiscation (Maybe if a Court Thinks So) Bill\u201D, the \u201CDiscretionary Vehicle Confiscation the Minister has Given to the Court if One is a Third Party Bill\u201D, or the \u201CAfter Two Warnings and Two Letters a Court Might Choose to Seize and Confiscate the Vehicle Permanently Bill\u201D. I do not think that is what New Zealanders signed up for when they supported this legislation, and they do support it. They signed up so that some balanced but tough legislation would be put in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe issue has been canvassed in respect of finance companies, in respect of parents, and in respect of the vast majority of boy racers, who are the ones who change the ownership to a third party\u2014they flick the ownership into each other\u2019s names. The Minister has chosen to give two written warnings and then to leave it up to a court. Maybe I would have bought the idea of the legislation having two written warnings and then saying to the court that it must act. I do not particularly agree with that but I would probably have had a bit more goodwill towards it. But in relation to the third party issue and the confiscation of vehicles, when we are looking at the title of this bill we might call it the \u201COne Letter, Two Letters, and Maybe a Court Might Do Something Bill\u201D. We are saying to a third party: \u201CWe are going to extend so much goodwill to you that we will write to you once and say somebody has run amok, then write to you again and say somebody has run amok.\u201D I would have thought we would conclude that if it takes three occasions for the third party owner to sort out his or her own arrangements to stop a car going out of his or her control into the hands of somebody else, then that person does not deserve to have that vehicle, at all. The Minister said that we should give owners a warning, and I agree with that; that is fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIf we are worried about dad and mum, who might be in Sydney when Johnnie takes the car and goes nuts, then, fair enough, a warning should be given. There are provisions in the legislation to protect people\u2019s rights, of course. We should give them a warning, then let those parents sort it out. Then, if on a second occasion they refuse to take responsibility for the control of their own vehicle and they let their same son or daughter run amok again, I say that the courts should act and they should act deliberately, as they do if a person is both the owner and the offender: the courts can act deliberately on a first offence and take the vehicle, and it is mandatory that they act deliberately on a second offence and take the vehicle. I do not think that most people would buy the argument: \u201CI didn\u2019t quite know Johnnie had taken the car for a second time. I didn\u2019t take any measures to sort him out and take the keys off him, or whatever.\u201D I think people would say: \u201CWell, you got a warning, you didn\u2019t control your son or daughter, so it\u2019s out.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut even putting that matter aside in respect of the title, this bill is not about kids taking their parents\u2019 car and going nuts in it. This, as the police have told us before, is about boy and girl racers who change the ownership of their respective cars, as time and time again over months the Minister has quite rightly pointed out. They change the ownership arrangements of their own vehicles amongst themselves. In that case, I do not think we should be giving them one \u201Cnaughty\u201D letter, two \u201Cnaughty\u201D letters, then saying to a judge: \u201CIt\u2019s over to you, judge. It\u2019s up to you. We wash our hands of it.\u201D I would have thought, if the Minister\u2019s intentions were pure, that she would say: \u201CAll right, things can go wrong. It is possible that the young person may not have known that their mate took the car and went crazy, so let\u2019s send them a short, sharp shock.\u201D, as she terms it. But she is guaranteeing to Parliament that the behaviour will change absolutely once a person gets a letter, hand-delivered, apparently, by a New Zealand police officer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWell, that is great; it is another job that the New Zealand Police have to do. They will now be courier drivers. They will have to take the letters around personally, rather than freeing up those same police staff to deal with serious crime. A squadron of them in a blue uniform will now probably be employed to hand-deliver letters to people. That is interesting, is it not? What happened to back office, front office, and front line, and to getting rid of bureaucracy? It is an interesting point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI would have thought there should be one letter that states that if it happens again there will be a consequence. As I say, for a young person it may have been unintended; somebody else may have taken the young person\u2019s car for a joyride. When the young person gets the letter, that young person should say: \u201CHang on\u2014I\u2019m not letting this happen again.\u201D, and he or she should take control of the keys. The keys should stay in the pocket and should not be left around the kitchen table, perhaps. But if it happens again, the judge must take the car. I think that is a reasonable proposition. To be honest, I have gone around and talked to a lot of parents and folks, listened to what they have said, and I have not had anybody who disagrees with me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EPeople are shocked, though, when we explain to them the content of this legislation, say that the Minister has differentiated between third party and owner-offender, and tell them how she has actually weakened the bill. The Minister talks about a couple of warnings\u2014\u201CLet\u2019s be fair.\u201D, she says. \u201CLet\u2019s not be Draconian. Let\u2019s find some balance.\u201D, she says. Maybe this bill should be called the \u201CJudith Collins (Fairness, Balance, and Non-Draconian Measures) Bill\u201D. Of course, that was not what Judith Collins was saying months ago when she was firing from the lip before officials got to her and said: \u201CHang on, Minister; there are a couple of other things you should know about this. Before you go out and raise expectations, we need to look at how this will work practically on the ground.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI hope these measures work, because people have had a gutsful of this problem. What we have tried to do in this debate, and what we are trying to do in respect of clause 1, the title debate, is to point out to the Minister\u2014and she has this permanent smile on her face, has she not; this permanently humble smile\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022692125e56d2f40bfb9c0d0c4499ab430\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Because she\u2019s happy!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022186220aad9d249cdb3f213dc5fce439a\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I wonder. I challenge the Minister to go around the country, and I wonder whether she will have the same smile on her face if this legislation does not work. We have offered some suggestions, some amendments, and some assistance. Our good will is pure, because we are backing this bill. As I have said before, this will be the \u201CJudith Collins (Accountability Measures) Bill\u201D. The Minister in the chair, Judith Collins, is laughing and gesticulating in her humble way, but this legislation will give us the opportunity to hold the Minister to account when this legislation does not work, and when the boy racers thumb their noses not only at the Minister, and not only at Parliament, but at the police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that we had the revelation by chance this morning that we will have uniformed front-line officers going around delivering letters because the Minister said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b06102ce61094406bf4f016cec1a9a94\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: There are fewer cars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ff3f30bce9b4b1882870e25a9aef9cc\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: With fewer cars, the letters will be delivered on foot or via taxi. The Minister has said that behaviour will change when a letter arrives that is delivered by a member of the New Zealand Police force. Well, that is interesting, is it not? When the choice is to act on that delivery or a burglary, the signal from the Minister will be to get around and deliver those letters because her reputation will be on the line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EAgain, in the dying stages of this bill I go on record as saying that we will show the courtesy of supporting the bill, because it will be a litmus test for this Minister. There is a huge gap in the rhetoric and in terms of what the Minister could have done. Maybe she did not think of accepting our amendment, or maybe the officials did not recommend that action to her, but if she had accepted our amendment I would have congratulated her on it, because that would have shown a bipartisan approach. Who cares where the idea has come from? Let us see whether we can make the show work. I recall that in respect of my bill we had quite a few good ideas from a number of MPs around Parliament and in the select committee. I thought we should adopt them, and we did adopt them. That is what I have said in relation to this bill, but the Minister has chosen, in her own inimitable and humble way, to plough on ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI just note that this bill could well be the \u201CJudith Collins Accountability Bill\u201D, because we will see in the next 12 months to 2 years exactly what the measures will do. Then I suspect, as Mr Garrett has pointed out\u2014and I welcome his support\u2014that we may well be back here amending the legislation. The problem with that, of course, will be that that is another 2 years in which people from Mr Garrett\u2019s patch and around the country will have had to put up with this legislation. It will be ironic if we return to this place and put through the amendment that this Minister has turned down. It will be ironic, but it will also be very sad and tragic for those people who will have had to put up with it, yet again, for another year or two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe Committee divided the bill into the Sentencing (Vehicle Confiscation) Amendment Bill, the Summary Proceedings (Vehicle Seizure) Amendment Bill, and the Privacy Amendment Bill, pursuant to Supplementary Order Paper 70.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226ddcc6691f5741ef8f484d7e91e09646\u0022\u003ESentencing (Vehicle Confiscation) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226ddcc6691f5741ef8f484d7e91e09646\u0022\u003ESummary Proceedings (Vehicle Seizure) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226ddcc6691f5741ef8f484d7e91e09646\u0022\u003EPrivacy Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221931290267ae451593aafcd461a02a18\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5a1188c75be4490b13e56882796856d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5a1188c75be4490b13e56882796856d\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Sentencing (Vehicle Confiscation) Amendment Bill, the Summary Proceedings (Vehicle Seizure) Amendment Bill, and the Privacy Amendment Bill be now read a third time. We are one step closer to making our streets safer. We will strengthen the powers of the courts to order the confiscation of motor vehicles, empower the courts to order the destruction of motor vehicles used by recidivist illegal street racers, and toughen the provisions to seize motor vehicles to enforce the collection of unpaid fines. We will take the fun out of illegal street racing. We will make it as difficult as possible for illegal street racers to flout the law and disrupt people\u2019s lives. This legislation, along with the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Act, will crack down on those who persist in racing their cars on public streets, doing burnouts, pouring diesel on the road, and disturbing, aggravating, and endangering the general public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EDuring the past stages of this legislation, I have acknowledged those parties who are supporting this legislation. The members of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee scrutinised the detail within the legislation, making good legislation better, and members of the public took the time to make a submission. I thank Parliamentary Counsel Office staff for consistently delivering high-quality legislative drafting in an efficient, professional manner. I also thank the officials from the New Zealand Police, the Ministry of Justice, and the Ministry of Transport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThis legislation has been labelled the crushing legislation because it introduces a new penalty for illegal street racing: vehicle destruction. The amendments to the Sentencing Act establish a new confiscation and destruction order, which the court can impose as a penalty for repeat illegal street racing offences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThis Government is focused on making an impact on crime. Just as the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act will hit gangs where it hurts by targeting their cash and assets, this legislation will hit boy racers where it hurts by targeting their vehicles. We have learnt from past legislation that fines do not work. Infringement notices become badges of honour stashed in the glove box without a second thought. The car is the most prized possession of the illegal street racer. If a fraction of the time boy racers took grooming and modifying their cars was put into considering the harm they do to the community, we would not have this problem. This Government has no hesitation in targeting those beloved vehicles in order for the message to be heard loud and clear that illegal street racing will not be tolerated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe amendments to the Summary Proceedings Act also target the vehicle. We know that illegal street racers sometimes use low-value cars to commit offences. These are cheap cars, kept to be driven roughly and recklessly, with little cost to the owner when they are damaged. In the past the Summary Proceedings Act 1957 provided that vehicles were seized just to recover fines. This has meant that low-value vehicles are sometimes used repeatedly and incur fines, but are not seized, enabling the vehicle to be continually used to commit traffic offences. The purpose of the new vehicle seizure provisions is to reduce traffic offending opportunities, as well as to collect overdue fines. Low-value cars that have incurred fines will now also be seized. This will mean that those cars are no longer in the hands of offenders, and are no longer able to be continually used to illegally race and disturb the peace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe groundwork for this legislation has closely scrutinised the existing loopholes that have been exploited by illegal street racers. One standout area is people who use the cars of others in order to avoid being caught and penalised. The amendments to the Sentencing Act authorise the confiscation of vehicles that an offender does not own or have an interest in but that a third party, who has been warned about the consequences of the offender continuing to offend in his or her vehicle, owns or has an interest in. This means that one can no longer borrow a mate\u2019s car, pull a couple of doughnuts on a public road, and avoid the consequences. This also means that one cannot borrow a car that belongs to mum, dad, or nana for a few quick stunts when one\u2019s own car is already impounded. Those cars are now able to be confiscated and potentially destroyed. This provision will, hopefully, make those in the community around illegal street racers more vigilant of their illicit activities. This legislation creates an environment that makes this type of offending as difficult as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI will now address the issue of the discretionary confiscation of vehicles that belong to a third party. The central objective of this legislation is to significantly reduce the harm and nuisance caused to communities by illegal street racers. This has been achieved by delivering a comprehensive package of measures that include local government - controlled sanctions, measures to reduce noise, measures to reduce cruising, increased powers to inspect modified vehicles, increased driver\u2019s-licence demerit points, and harsher penalties for illegal street racing offences. This Government has been very diligent to ensure that this legislation will impact upon illegal street racers and not on other members of the public. For this reason the courts will have the discretion to weigh up all the issues at hand and to make a fair and reasonable judgment when deciding whether to confiscate, or to confiscate and destroy, the vehicle of a third party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EAn arbitrary decision that all people who have had their vehicles used to commit illegal street racing offences must be liable for vehicle confiscation and destruction will not solve this problem. The real solution lies in the comprehensive package of measures that will work in unison to effectively target illegal street racing. These new tools will further empower the police to address local illegal street racing problems with local solutions, applying well-informed operational responses that are backed up by strong laws. These tools will also empower courts to provide appropriate penalties for illegal street racers who continue to endanger their lives and the lives of others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI now move to a matter that was raised in the Committee stage by the Opposition around the delivery of warning letters. I made the comment that these letters could be delivered by the police. That is actually in the legislation, and I am sorry that Opposition members have not bothered to read it. It is very clear that the letters can be delivered by the police, by court staff, or by people contracted to do so by the courts. It is very clear; it should not come as a surprise to Opposition members. If they had actually scrutinised the legislation, then they would know it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, however, I am proud to have responsibility for this legislation. It clearly responds to the demands of New Zealanders. I know this for a fact, as I have received resounding support for this legislation as I have travelled around the country. In addition to this, emails and letters have flooded in congratulating this Government on having the strength and commitment to deliver on its word. However, we are a minority Government, and we cannot pass this legislation without the support of other parties in the House. I particularly thank United Future, the ACT Party, the M\u0101ori Party, and, latterly, the Labour Party, which has now come on board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThis vehicle confiscation and seizure legislation, along with the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Act, will provide a comprehensive suite of legislative changes specifically designed to stop illegal street racers in their tracks. I look forward to seeing the implementation of these laws and to seeing the streets of New Zealand become safer, more peaceful, and free from the chaos that is created by illegal street racing. I commend this legislation to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcf6b9869b6e41319a794e9a75cbb25e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcf6b9869b6e41319a794e9a75cbb25e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I wish the Minister of Police well on the aims she outlined at the conclusion of her speech. I hope they happen. I suspect every member of the House shares the same view. I hope the problem is cleaned up, and that the legislation stops the problem in its tracks, because I, my colleagues\u2014Ruth Dyson, Lianne Dalziel, and Brendon Burns\u2014members from Hamilton and Auckland, and everybody, in fact, suffer from this insidious sort of activity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe have said that we will support the legislation. We believe that there are some very good provisions in it, such as the tightening up of the provisions on hardship and the closing of the loophole so that we can go after a third party. We disagree on how that provision is being proposed, but I will get to that in a moment. We support the intent of this legislation, as we supported the last bill, the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIt is incumbent on Her Majesty\u2019s loyal Opposition to point out issues, and we have some difficulty in the gap between the rhetoric and the actual implementation. Communities were told that this Government would get tough on this issue, and I say: \u201CGood on the Government.\u201D, because it should get tough on it. I had a crack at it as a backbencher. I did not have the Minister\u2019s vast resources of departments when I drafted my bill on this issue as a backbencher. The advice I received was that we had covered the bases. There were some things that we had not thought of, obviously, because I do not have a monopoly on all knowledge on this issue, unlike the Minister. I have some experience, though. She has no generosity in acknowledging the fact that we had a crack at this; we did not have the official advice that she had. I applaud her for closing those third-party loopholes, for the hardship provisions, and for a number of other clauses that are contained in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut here is the difficulty. The community was told that this Minister would get tough. The communities up and down the country were told that every car would be closer to the crusher. As I say, these words will be etched on their memories. It was a very good line, I thought, and although the \u201CCrusher Collins\u201D line was a good nickname for about 3 days, I do not think it will be a good nickname as we go forward and see the results of this legislation. Everybody was under the impression that these cars would be rolled up and crushed, but then we got down to tintacks. These are not my words; these are the Minister\u2019s own words on radio and in the newspaper. She was asked how many cars she thought would be crushed. She said that she expected 10 a year. In Christchurch, we know that 1,000 cars maraud around the show each Friday night. How will 10 cars a year incentivise a change in behaviour? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022776ef7b5b361408ea37af86e902e5915\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Not even a block\u2019s worth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8f310db6a144cc8a8d05969aa126083\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: It is not even a block\u2019s worth, Ms Dyson says. After months of tough rhetoric, today the Minister started talking about fairness, balance, and not wanting to be Draconian. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251d1b3ad5547468db87ff197020ddd6d\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s been told to sweeten up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227da1bf1f03774ca58fb9353793710b66\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I will not comment on that, but here is the serious point. The impression the communities had was that the crusher would roll. The crusher has not rolled, or, rather, it will roll to only 10 cars a year. Then the Minister said on radio that she was absolutely confident that the courts would enforce this provision. She is a lawyer, and once was president of the Auckland District Law Society. She knows that no one can guarantee what judges will do. Their job is to interpret the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe other difficulty we have is with the implementation of the warning provisions. The Minister said she would get tough. I ask those who may be listening and those in the communities whether it is tough that when a boy racer changes the ownership of his or her car and allow a boy-racing mate to use the car to run amok and terrorise a community, the owner, who is a boy racer, gets a letter saying that somebody has been very naughty in that car. How tough is that? I wonder what the communities will say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EOn a second offence by the boy racer\u2019s mate, the owner will get a second letter\u2014it may be signed by Judith Collins herself\u2014with some naughty words on it to frighten the boy racer, saying that somebody has been very, very naughty in that car. Then there is a third offence within 4 years, when the boy racer\u2019s mate takes the car to run amok in another community, and a third group of residents experience the nuisance or, in some cases, are terrorised by this sort of behaviour. We know there is violence attached to what happens here. We have seen that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EOn the third offence it will be discretionary for the judge whether to take any action. There is no mandatory requirement, as there would be if the Minister preserved my existing legislative provisions. Under my provisions, on a first offence, if the owner of the car is also the offender, the judge may take the car forever, and, on a second offence, the judge must take it for ever. If the boy racer is the third party and has let his or her boy-racing mate run amok three times, under this legislation it is then up to the judge. The judge might do nothing or might order that the car be crushed. That is optional. Maybe the judge will order that the car be taken permanently. That is optional.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe simply put an amendment forward that said we should give the third party a letter that says that if his or her mate takes the car and runs amok again, a court will take the car forever\u2014permanently. Where it happens to be mum\u2019s car or dad\u2019s car\u2014rare though that is, as we know from the police\u2014all the mums and dads that I have talked to have said they will deal with Johnny and give him the message real quick that he ain\u2019t taking their car. The keys will go in the pocket, not on the hook on the wall in the kitchen. If the Government wants to get tough and break the back of this problem, we offer a suggestion. We believe this bill is weak and that this Minister has been weak. Her only counterargument is that we must have balance and we must have fairness. I could not believe what I was hearing, to be honest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe other point we made on the legislation was that we adhered to the Police Association\u2019s view around crushing. In its submission the Police Association said: \u201Cthe car-crushing provisions are unfortunately \u2018a sideshow that looks good \u2026 but [which] in reality will have very little effect\u2019.\u201D I agree with the Police Association, because the Minister told us that cars would be heading to the crusher. I challenge any member of this House to say that the communities did not have the impression from this Minister that the cars would be lined up in droves. I challenge any member to say that the communities did not have that perception, because they did. But the Minister\u2019s own words condemn her proposition. She has said it will be 10 cars a year. In Christchurch, as Mr David Carter knows, and in Hamilton\u2014the Hamilton member may be here somewhere; Hamilton has been through hell\u2014hundreds of these vehicles are leering it up, causing mayhem. There are hundreds damn near every night of the week. The Minister said 10 cars a year will be crushed. That proves that the Police Association\u2019s point is right, and that it will be \u201Ca sideshow that looks good\u201D. Members can imagine what Judith Collins will say when the first car gets crushed and then when nine others are. I have met boy racers and I have been threatened by them. I have talked with them, and they will not give a rat\u2019s about 10 cars a year being crushed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe other reason we oppose crushing is a practical reason. Most of the boy racers, as the Minister rightly points out, have huge numbers of fines and court costs to pay, and often the only asset they have is a souped-up wagon. They do not drive heaps; they are very proud of the wagons that they drive. Some have told me they have put $30,000 or $40,000 into them. That is great stuff if they are acting legally. Given that that is the only asset that many of them have, and given that they owe fines and court costs, the question is how we should deal with those fines and court costs. My belief is that we should maximise the asset value and dollar value of that asset, the car, in such a way as to utilise those funds so that the offender\u2014I will not put words in Mr Garrett\u2019s mouth, but I suspect even he may agree with this\u2014pays his or her own court costs and fines. If that does not happen, and the wagon is crushed and is useless, who ends up paying those court costs and fines? The taxpayer does. I do not think the innocent should have to cough up for the offender. If the car is cut up for parts, what will they do then? We could maximise its value through selling parts. The issue of recycling has been trumpeted in this Chamber, where a boy racer goes and buys the wagon back, but even in the police\u2019s own submission, not one shred of analysis or evidence has been given to us that shows that boy racers are running around the back of Turners Auctions and buying the wagons back. Not one piece of evidence has been given to show that. The Minister\u2019s only suggestion was to go and talk to the police and they would tell us. Well, I have. Some time ago I even visited a police yard and had a look at all of the wagons that were impounded\u2014some were very impressive, I have to say. But no evidence at all has been put before this House by that Minister to show that this sort of mass recycling is going on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThis issue is serious, and I will tell members why it is serious. People are dying. The police told us there were 56 fatalities last year, and a couple of hundred injuries. People are dying and people are losing friends. It is more serious than just the leer-up and the doughnut on the footy field lawn. It is mainly young people, and they are dying on the roads. I am a rugby fanatic. If guys were playing rugby on State Highway 1, I would say to those fullas that I love the game, but I would ask why they do not go and do it safely on the footy field at the club. I think this House has made that plea for many years: people should go and join a car club, act legally, and then come to MPs and councils and say that they have doubled the membership of the car club and they want us to provide them with more facilities. I would buy into that if they act legally first. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022825b302702ea4395b8cd20759f20b977\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022825b302702ea4395b8cd20759f20b977\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call on the third reading of the vehicle confiscation and seizure legislation. I think, despite some of the things that have been said, it has pretty widespread support across the House. The reason for that is that all of us, as members of Parliament and members of the public, have had experience of the types of illegal street racing behaviour that this bill and its companion bill, the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill, are designed to control. It has affected us all. We have certainly had constituents come and tell us about their experiences. I thank the submitters to the select committee once again for their candour, their bravery, and also for the clear way in which they articulated the manner in which it is affecting their communities. I think Mr Garrett talked earlier about freedom\u2014the freedom to go and pursue those interests, but without externalising the impacts of those activities on people who do not want to be involved in them. As the Minister mentioned, this bill and its companion bill, the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill, which we passed last night, take us one step closer to a situation where members of the public, I think, can go about their lives without the fear and intimidation that at present exists because of this behaviour. It is a really significant step on that journey, and there is no doubt that it will improve the situation, but I do not think the Ministers, the officials, members of Parliament, or the public are under any illusions that it is a magic bullet, that we have come to the end of that journey, and that the problem is solved, because clearly it is not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI will just touch on two policy areas that I think the Ministers are working on and that are a work in progress. The first is the matter of noise. Noise was discussed quite a bit in the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. It was certainly discussed in the Committee stage of the previous bill. I think noise is really the symptom of the underlying behaviour. It is not necessarily the cause of all the problems, but it is a significant symptom. I am confident that some of the measures that are put in place with these two bills will reduce the impact of noise on the public, but I do not think that the journey is over yet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe other area I will touch on is failure to stop. We have had serious representations by the police and the Police Association about failure to stop being the single most dangerous aspect of illegal street racing behaviour. That is where people are dying. I am pleased to see that an impoundment clause was added to the previous legislation. I put officials through quite stern examination of another suggestion around a mandatory 28-day licence suspension, which could be added to section 128 of the Sentencing Act through this bill. It was not, but I was very satisfied with the answers about why that was not possible, and also encouraged by the fact that more policy work would be done in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThere are other peripheral factors, like alcohol in cars, the issue of third-party insurance, and the mass gathering and social disorder that comes with it. That is still a work in progress, but I think we have taken a significant step forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EMy last comment is addressed to the car enthusiasts themselves. We heard submissions from many law-abiding, car-loving owners, who said that they were simply going about their activities, doing the things they love, in a peaceful and legal manner. They said that they spent a lot of time and money on their vehicles, and that they really enjoyed the opportunity to park up, share their stories, show off their cars in a legal way, and do other activities. We heard from one submitter in Hamilton, who suggested to us that 95 percent of car lovers are engaging in behaviour that is legal and OK, and it is only a very small minority who drive illegally. Here is my message to the 95 percent: weed out the others. Get rid of them, because they are bringing down the reputation of the 95 percent, and they are creating a huge amount of public anxiety and fear. If the proportions are that, then those law-abiding car lovers also have a responsibility to take control of their activities. I leave that as the challenge. I support this bill and I look forward to its passage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u0022a019ea2536a74ab4b35d41f38e4d2329\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a019ea2536a74ab4b35d41f38e4d2329\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will start by saying that I thought that was a very thoughtful contribution by Michael Woodhouse. I actually agree with most of it, if not all of it. He much more realistically captured the status of the three bills that were divided from the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill, whose third reading we are debating, unlike the Minister, Judith Collins, who was flagging them as a solution to the boy-racer problem. Michael Woodhouse has correctly indicated that elements of these bills will be useful steps along the way, but there are many areas that still require further work. I intend to cover those issues as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI have stood in the House on several occasions to speak on the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill and its companion bill, the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill, to acknowledge those people who brought their stories to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. I want to do that again. We were all profoundly affected by the presentations of those people who have to deal with this problem in their day-to-day lives, particularly in the submissions made in Christchurch. I cannot express more strongly that I sympathise with those people for the impact that it has on their lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI also think that there were very thoughtful submissions from a number of agencies trying to grapple with the problem. There are genuine car enthusiasts. There are a whole lot of associated issues around things like freedom of association. There are issues about balancing of rights. But the bottom line, as everybody on that select committee recognised, is that there is a need to address this issue and tackle the problem of those who are making other people\u2019s lives a misery. Whether it is affecting them in terms of sleep deprivation, their feeling of security and ability to go about their business, damage to their property by people breaking glass, or their business, they are all significant impacts. There were 58 submissions on the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill, and I particularly thank those people and the officials who worked with us in providing advice throughout the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI will focus on a couple of scene-setting matters. I talked quite a bit about noise in the debate on those two bills, and I will briefly mention that again, but one of the other areas I flagged was the issue of road safety. I note that, in the 4 years between 2004 and 2008, illegal street racing was implicated in 49 fatal crashes, 160 serious injury crashes, and 376 minor injury crashes, and in 2008 there were 2,431 convictions for illegal street racing. It is a significant problem, and at its most extreme it is causing loss of life. It is not a trivial matter at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill particularly looked at strengthening powers of the court to order confiscation, but it went on to include the destruction of motor vehicles, and that is where we have got into all the hype about \u201CCrusher Collins\u201D and all of that sort of carry-on. That is where I think we have gone off-track on this legislation. The bits around strengthening confiscation and dealing with loopholes, like the third party provisions, are really useful additions to the statute that we already have on the statute book. They will assist the police and others in making sure that we deal with this issue. The issue of destruction of motor vehicles is actually just a red herring. I think it has been beefed up by members opposite as really getting tough. Labour has supported these bills. We have tried to amend the legislation to toughen up the confiscation provisions, because getting those cars off the road\u2014the confiscation of those cars\u2014is as serious as destruction. Our view is that the courts are not very likely to go down the destruction track. A lot of the submitters thought that the destruction provision was just ridiculous, and that it was not where we should be focusing our attention. The bill also strengthens provisions around the enforcement of the collection of unpaid fines and reparation. Again, I say that we strongly support that. There are too many people who have been able to use loopholes to get out of taking responsibility for their actions in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EWe have said all the way through that we will support measures to crack down on illegal street racing. It is an issue that Labour has consistently engaged with and has tried to deal with over a number of years. In the course of this debate, we put up a proposition to toughen the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill. Unfortunately, despite our requests of the Government to support that amendment, it was not taken up. Essentially Supplementary Order Paper 73 aimed to reinstate the original intention of the Land Transport (Unauthorised Street and Drag Racing) Amendment Act 2003, whereby after two street racing offences within 4 years, an offender\u2019s vehicle must be permanently confiscated. It sought to apply that same provision to the substitute for the offender. Mr Cosgrove talked about it in detail, so I will not go into that Supplementary Order Paper, but it maintained the safeguards and appeal rights that were in the bill. Basically, we wanted to ensure that the bill was toughened up with regard to confiscation on a second offence. We have said all the way through that we do not agree with crushing cars. It is a waste and we think it a distraction from the real issues. We put up that amendment, but unfortunately it was not accepted by the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe other thing I would like talk about in some detail is the provision around a substitute for the offender. As I mentioned, we are strongly supportive of this provision. It closes a loophole where those who are engaged in illegal street racing have effectively transferred ownership backwards and forwards between themselves, their parents, their friends, or whatever. This seeks to address what has been identified as a real problem, and we support it. A provision to be added to the Sentencing Act by clause 5 of the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill basically means that a person can become a substitute for the offender. There are protections so that, for example, the court cannot order confiscation of a vehicle owned by a substitute if the substitute could not have reasonably known that the offender would commit an offence, or if the substitute took all reasonable steps to prevent the commissioning of an offence. That is important. It is important that we do not get so Draconian that we take away people\u2019s rights. There was consideration around the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act in that regard. It was vetted by Crown Law, and it found that this provision was consistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. That was particularly so because there are no criminal penalties associated with this provision. I think that the substitute for the offender provision was an important change, and it is one we are strongly supportive of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe other area I want to go back to is where I started around the real issues here. Throughout this debate, I have consistently said that noise is a real issue. I concur with what Michael Woodhouse said in relation to the issue of noise. The other issues are road safety and antisocial behaviour. When we boiled down the implications of what people were saying to us, those were the things that were impacting on their lives. Those are the things that we need to be addressing if we are serious about dealing with the issue of illegal street racing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EIn our report on this bill, we Labour members raised our concern that cuts to police resources will impact negatively on the ability to effectively deal with the problems arising from illegal street racing. The police\u2019s role in this is absolutely crucial, not only in an enforcement sense but also in a community safety and community policing sense. Mr Woodhouse talked about some of the people who might, for the purposes of this debate, be characterised as the good boy-racers, or the people who like to use their vehicles in certain ways and show off in their vehicles and everything else in a way that is not disadvantaging anybody else. Community policing is really important in having those relationships and in trying to foster a voice for those people. We talked to some of those people in Christchurch to make sure that police responses take account of information that those people will be hearing about some of the people we might characterise as the bad boy racers. Again, I say that police resourcing is important in terms of both enforcement and the community policing side of things. We are worried about the current budget cuts, including the loss of police vehicles, and the implications that that will have on effective policing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5d458225d0d4b6096277be8edef8d9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5d458225d0d4b6096277be8edef8d9d\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, I congratulate the previous speaker, Carol Beaumont, who brought back the focus on to the other measures that the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill provides for, which are contained in clause 15, \u201CSale of confiscated motor vehicles\u201D, and the disposition of the proceeds thereof. We heard an awful lot of excited rhetoric from Mr Cosgrove about the crushing provisions, which I will come to myself, as well. I am very pleased that Ms Beaumont pointed out that the remedy that is most likely to be applied is confiscation and sale of the vehicle, either in whole or in part, and of course that is sensible. The sale process has appeal, for the reasons that many members have spoken of, but there are also problems if the vehicle is sold as a whole because of the auction process that members on this side of the House are well familiar with, if Mr Burns is not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EI turn to the points made about crushing. The first point that needs to be emphasised is that this is very much a last resort; it is not the first. It involves the concept of deterrence, and it is a very ancient concept. I think the French put it most elegantly\u2014pour encourager les autres\u2014but it goes back to Greek and Roman times. It basically says that someone shoots a deserter to discourage others, to pick one unpleasant example. Or, in this context, to crush one car to discourage the 500 or 1,000 others who are subject to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EUnlike Mr Cosgrove, I do not believe that all criminals are stupid; I believe that most criminals are rational. We have all used the term boy racers, even though it is somewhat benign. Boy racing is a rational offence. A person intending to go down Moorhouse Avenue or do endless circuits through Hagley Park needs to decide he or she is going to do it, then go and fill up the car, call or text the other clowns, go to the appointed spot, and carry out the activity. That is a series of rational steps made by that person or persons. It is not a murder committed in the heat of the moment, and it is not a drugged assault or another kind of assault committed in the heat of the moment. It is a rational, considered offence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EEvidence shows that deterrence very much works in that area. It is one of the reasons why violent crime has decreased 60 percent in California since 1994, when the \u201Cthree strikes\u201D law was introduced. Contrary to popular belief, it is not just because of incapacitation. A study cited in the Sentencing and Parole Reform Bill showed a 22 percent reduction in crime, due to deterrence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EI ask members to imagine, in the context of this bill, the impact of that first crushing. Let us say that the Minister or Mr Cosgrove, for that matter, are right and there are only 10 crushings a year. Mr Cosgrove has said, and he appears to have plenty of knowledge of this field, that a lot of those vehicles are worth 30 grand. Well, 30 grand is a lot of money to me; I think the best of my two cars is worth about $5,500. Imagine the impact that crushing a $30,000 car will have, if that is someone\u2019s only asset. Hopefully some sensible judge, and there are a good many of them, will pick as a first example one of the cars that Mr Cosgrove referred to\u2014a nice, shiny thing. I do not know what the hoons think that would be\u2014a Subaru Impreza or something, hotted up, lowered, and given a nice paint job. Imagine the impact of crushing that car on the rest of the boy racers. It might not work; it might not deter everybody. It might take two crushings, or five, but I warrant that this will have an effect when crushing is reached eventually; it will have an effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EI could cite a very unpleasant case in South Auckland concerning deterrence, but I will not, for reasons of taste. The fact is that when it comes to rational offending, which requires intention, deliberation, and steps, deterrence has been shown to work and I believe it will work in this case. We are happy to support this bill, but, as I said earlier and I will repeat, if it does not work we will be happy to support any amendment that closes any loophole that someone in my profession manages to find in the coming months or years. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u00226ceec1fdb54c4339a6a72c1801baad14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ceec1fdb54c4339a6a72c1801baad14\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party is opposed to the vehicle confiscation and seizure legislation. We think this legislation, along with some other bills the Government is introducing, goes in the wrong direction of thinking that the answer to criminal behaviour is just to extend the penalties and get tougher and tougher and tougher. That response is only filling up our jails\u2014overfilling our jails\u2014and now we are talking about double-bunking and all the rest of it. There was a reaction to that approach by the Chief Justice some weeks back. More recently, I saw a very insightful column by Colin James, a well-respected commentator, who was worried that we are going in the direction of more penalties, longer sentences, etc.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de409c583c9c4278b17f8706d064383f\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re a criminal sympathiser.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4162a80958f431c9a146c8ba1ed873a\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE\u003C/span\u003E: There is an interjection that I am a criminal sympathiser. The legal fraternity, particularly a lecturer at Victoria University of Wellington, has made the point that the prison rate in countries like Sweden that have taken a different course is much lower than the prison rate in New Zealand. So we are increasing the rate of crime. That is, the people who are on this law and order offensive are the pro-criminal ones because they are creating more criminals. They are reducing the possibility of rehabilitation; prisons are, by and large, schools for crime. If members are anti-crime, they should be against this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe report on the bill from the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee says that it offended against the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act in terms of the provisions for confiscation, destruction, and seizure. This idea of a penalty of crushing an object, in this case a car, is not one that the Greens support. We do not support physically destroying material, such as the cars, which could have another use. There may be cases for forced confiscation and the like, but surely the vehicle itself should remain to be of use to somebody, if not the offender. So this whole idea of crushing cars seems to be offensive to common sense. We are very much against that. It is surely offensive to any ecological approach of recycling material and continuing objects in circulation and in use. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWe also disagree with the Labour minority report, which said that the judges should not have discretion on whether there should be confiscation or destruction\u2014crushing of a vehicle. We think the judges should have discretion, because it is very complicated. In fact, the whole issue is intensely complicated, and the more the Government goes down this law and order track, the more complicated it becomes in terms of who has ownership rights and might reuse the vehicle, who it might be onsold to, and all the rest of it. It is getting into a total tangle. The more we go in the direction of extreme measures like destruction, the more tangle we get into, and probably the more appeals, court cases, and cost to the Government and the taxpayer. So, in general, we are against this bill and will be voting accordingly. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00225b9c41ee10a34d6aac42126f898eca54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b9c41ee10a34d6aac42126f898eca54\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker, kia ora t\u0101tou i t\u0113nei ata. Before I start my speech, I say that I have sympathy for Mr Locke\u2019s comments in respect of wasting of cars, especially if someone is struggling to get one. I understand where he is coming from. But if the general intent is to make a point around this whole issue of, not boy racers per se, but certainly the issues of safety, then the M\u0101ori Party is compelled to go with this legislation. Albeit, hearing that, I would not mind some of those cars\u2014drop off a muffler here or there, or a few of the add-ons, just to make the look more impressive, as some might say. But be that as it may, that is another issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b79cd1b2f2e4939b0b36ed4cad6b5a0\u0022\u003EHon John Carter\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019d be too scared to drive it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224443d8fb00ed402d8e1d6efcc2c48e64\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: No, I would have a go. Today, as we have heard, the legislation has been divided, and there are three bills before the House right now in the third reading stage. It is a remarkable coincidence that these three bills feature the impact of boy-racer traffic offending and that they are, in fact, in front of the House at this time when accident compensation is very much on the national agenda. As stated in earlier stages, the M\u0101ori Party is well aware that M\u0101ori are overrepresented in nearly every injury statistic, but particularly from car accidents. In a study published by the Ng\u0101i Tahu M\u0101ori health research centre and the injury prevention research unit at the University of Otago, a key finding was that youth was an important risk factor, with two-thirds of Maori casualties aged between 15 and 34 years of age. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe study \u201CMotor vehicle traffic crashes involving M\u0101ori\u201D, published in the New Zealand Medical Journal, points out that the majority of crashes involving M\u0101ori have occurred on two-way sealed roads that were either in a city or on the outskirts of a city. So, enter the boy-racer phenomenon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThese bills accompany the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill and make three significant amendments to the current law. The bills amend the Sentencing Act, the Summary Proceedings Act, and the Privacy Act in order to reduce boy-racer traffic offending. The legislation in particular strengthens the powers of the courts to order the confiscation of cars and to give them the powers to order the destruction of cars used by persistent street racing offenders. It strengthens provisions to seize cars in order to enforce protection of unpaid fines and reparation. I can understand some of the reactions that have been highlighted about this course of legislation, which are that it appears overly heavy. But a number of circumstances convince me of the importance of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe first is that the court must not order the destruction of a vehicle if it will result in extreme hardship to the offender, or undue hardship to any other person, and that might be the little out that Mr Locke was looking for. But, more important, I bring us back to the importance of road-traffic crashes as a health issue for young M\u0101ori males. Professor Mason Durie has commented that the effect of injury to rangatahi\u2014young people\u2014is accentuated by the loss of the benefits that can flow from competent, healthy, skilled wh\u0101nau members. In real terms, this is the loss of the wh\u0101nau asset\u2014the promise of a future generation, if one wants to put it that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EMore than any other issue, examining the phenomenon of boy racing reminds us of the vital need to develop strategies for prevention of road traffic injuries amongst M\u0101ori. We must allocate priority to rehabilitation and support services for M\u0101ori injured as a result of motor vehicle crashes. This is where the craze for fast racing and souped-up cars takes on a far more serious dimension. We are not talking about a bit of harmless fun, and the boys out having a bit of a good time. We are talking about events that in the end result in death or long-term disability resulting from injuries. We are talking about the traumatic loss suffered by wh\u0101nau when individuals suffer the consequences of road crashes. We are thinking about the real cost of care imposed on carers and wh\u0101nau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe research I cited earlier showed that head injuries were incurred by around 35 percent of M\u0101ori casualties admitted to hospital, followed by fractures of the lower limb, the neck, and the trunk. I was interested in the views of the YouthLaw Tino Rangatiratanga Taitamariki group, which was that the bills together represent a regime of significantly more deterrence penalties and enforcement provisions, particularly in respect of illegal street racing, and that the boy-racer subculture is the primary target of enforcement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAnother interesting submission was the one from the Candor Trust, Campaign Against Drugs on Roads. Its position was that New Zealand road toll statistics tell us that noise is the key boy-racer issue and not road traffic, for the most part. Noise is an issue but that issue does not kill people, and there is the difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI come back to the problem we face as a Parliament. There are public safety issues, including the death and injury of young people, that definitely need to be addressed. We in the M\u0101ori Party are particularly concerned about the significant burden to the health of young M\u0101ori created by death and injury due to motor vehicle crashes. We admit that our support for this bill is in the total and absolute hope that anything we can do to prevent illegal street racing will help to maintain public health and safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe also acknowledge there are many issues left unanswered. There are many concerns and questions left unresolved. For instance, we know that alongside being young and male, a high proportion, some 70 percent, of M\u0101ori casualties were from areas with high levels of deprivation\u2014that is, decile 7 to 10. Such a finding highlights the need to further explore the association between the social and economic determinants of health in relation to injury and motor vehicle traffic crashes. Is it to do with the condition of the car, the quality of life, the health, or the educational circumstances of the driver? These are some of the key questions we need to consider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe police reports describe a particular profile of a boy-racer. Typically, boy racers are male, aged between 16 and 28 years of age, and employed in the middle class. They lack criminal histories but have usually racked up some fines for driving offences. If we have such specific demographic details, one wonders whether we should in fact be targeting the driver and not the car\u2014again, to take up Mr Locke\u2019s point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThen there is the fact of the activities associated with the boy-racer subculture. Again, boy racers are typically associated with, firstly, alcohol consumption; secondly, with stunt driving, including burnouts, doughnuts, and drag racing; thirdly, they are usually associated with wilful and unconscious damage of public and private property; and, fourthly, they are associated with networks brought together by word of mouth, cellphones, and car horns, as alluded to by my ACT colleague. Is the combined impact of each of those deeds in fact the worse evil? That, again, is a question we should pose. Rather, should we be putting our energy into a comprehensive campaign on road safety, and targeting all of our energy into addressing the drivers who are happy not to wear seatbelts but to speed, to drink and drive, and to take risks? Or maybe we are targeting things too late. Perhaps we should instead be promoting best practice from the moment our babies are in car seats. These are the questions that I hope, having been through the debate, we might address in the future, should, as Mr Cosgrove alluded to, this legislation come back to bite us in the bum later on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EMy colleague Rahui Katene, MP for Te Tai Tonga, has talked to me about the submission from Te Pu\u0101waitanga ki \u014Ctautahi Trust. In its petition to the Safer Journeys 2020 strategy it focused its efforts on the current use of child restraints. According to the trust\u2019s sources, approximately 16 tamariki per year die as a result of motor vehicle accidents, and another 275 are hospitalised. Even after extensive campaigns to address those issues, one or two cars out of 10 still have tamariki travelling unsecured, and only one in five have car seats that are fitted properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI have taken us on a rather rapid gallop across the whole range of the issues, strategies, and interventions in the broader area of road safety, because I believe we need to be innovative as we look into this issue, and across all areas of public health and safety concerns, if we really want to look at better outcomes in terms of public safety. Ultimately, I guess the real success of the legislation we are voting for today will be in the immediate outcomes we can measure in mortality statistics and hospitalisation statistics, and in rehabilitation data. But it is in the interests of health and well-being, and the well-being of our wh\u0101nau in particular, that we of the M\u0101ori Party will be voting in support of this bill in its third reading today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u00223144d0fd591b49558b295bf57cdb5f1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223144d0fd591b49558b295bf57cdb5f1d\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to speak to the third readings of the vehicle confiscation and seizure legislation, the Government\u2019s response to illegal street racing. I congratulate Judith Collins on her crusade against this activity; the chair of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, David Bennett; the officials, who did a lot of work and assisted the committee; and, of course, the submitters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThis legislation gives greater powers to the police, courts, and local authorities to tackle illegal street racers. Along with its companion bill\u2014the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Bill, which has now passed its third reading\u2014it will send a strong message that illegal street racing is unacceptable, and that mob-like, hoon-like behaviour will not be tolerated under any circumstances. The public is sick of being terrorised, pedestrians and residents are sick of being menaced by this menacing-type behaviour, and it will not be tolerated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EWe heard in the select committee that businesses in Christchurch were being affected. Their clients had disturbed sleep, residents had disturbed sleep, and this year Southern Cross Hospital had to move patients from the front of the building to the back of the building. There is the problem of petrol and diesel being poured on the roads. There is the chewing up of grass verges, scattering of rubbish, broken glass, and fences being destroyed\u2014basically property damage. Those idiots have done enough. They are a danger to themselves and to the public. There have been senseless deaths as a result of illegal street racers. By and large it affects innocent bystanders and young people. There is a tragic, unnecessary loss of human life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe public are living in fear of reprisals. We heard yesterday of one submitter in Christchurch whose local MP had to submit on the submitter\u2019s behalf because that submitter was so concerned about reprisals. There is concern of vigilante action by the public. Together, the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill and the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Bill will send a powerful message that the public do not have to live in fear or take matters into their own hands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThis legislation will allow local authorities to create by-laws and prevent predatory cruising behaviour. In Part 1 there is a new power for the court to order the confiscation and destruction of an offender\u2019s car if that offender is convicted of a third illegal street racing offence within 4 years. That power extends to vehicles owned by a third party; for instance, if a car is owned by a parent, relative, or friend, such an owner will be given a written warning that his or her vehicle has been used illegally. We heard about finance companies that previously would not even have known that that activity was happening. I am sure that as a result of a warning letter, companies will change their contracts and will take this very seriously. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022635459b61f104409895b39b674003830\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022635459b61f104409895b39b674003830\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E It is good to be able to speak as we enter the final stages\u2014the home straight, if you like\u2014of this legislation. It deserves the House\u2019s attention. It is interesting to note that we did not have, from members opposite, any Christchurch MPs take part in debate on the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill or its companion measure, the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill, as we went through the Committee of the whole House. I think it is important that we have that sort of representation, because Christchurch, and certainly my electorate of Christchurch Central, has perhaps been the electorate most plagued, most focused on, and most covered by the media in respect of the boy-racer issue. That is why it is important that I affirm clearly that Labour is strongly in support of this legislation; I think we are hearing that stated time and time again. We have some concerns and questions about the way the legislation deals with the issue of confiscation and crushing, and that is why we proposed an amendment in an attempt to make it stronger. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EWhen I think of the reason we support this legislation, I guess it brings me back to people like the moteliers on Bealey Avenue in my electorate. I visited them late last year and saw the damage that was caused by the boy-racer fraternity: letterboxes vandalised, neon signs vandalised, excreta left in doorways, broken glass littering the pavements, and that is before\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225301462e1cdb4b0e90a432ea1b6a540c\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Was it the National caucus?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8dd7e8ee1bc41f2aee857f93052556f\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: No, it was the motels in Bealey Avenue. I looked at the damage that is inflicted every weekend, and that is why this legislation is important. That is why Labour is supporting it. Those moteliers deserve to know that Parliament, and we as MPs, can respond. That is why it is important to say that this legislation is another step in the journey. It will not be some kind of silver cube. It will not provide an ultimate answer, in my belief, because we will need the ongoing support of the police, for instance. We will also need to look at the Law Commission\u2019s report and the proposals emerging for changes in the alcohol laws, because alcohol is very significant contributory factor to the problems that we face with boy racers. Not only are they a plague in their cars but also they are a plague where their cars park, with the alcohol that is consumed, the litter that is left, and the glass that is left littering pavements. Many people are affected by that litter. Cyclists, for instance, are plagued by punctures across Christchurch because of the detritus that is left behind by the boy-racer fraternity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI make it very clear to the House in these third readings that Labour is in strong support of this legislation. We would have liked to see an amendment to toughen it up, but obviously it is part of an ongoing journey to deal with the problem of boy racers. We have seen time and time again the behaviour of some of those boy racers, and Christchurch tends to attract the most focus. We saw in Rotorua in just the last few weeks that a girl racer tried to bring together a show of solidarity in a supposedly peaceful fashion, but it got out of hand. That is the problem. There is not a coherent body; it is a collection of random individuals linked by cellphones and behaviour. There is no one coordinated group. We are not dealing with the Mongrel Mob, Black Power, the Devil\u2019s Henchmen, or whatever; we are dealing with a random group of individuals. Yet the damage they wreak can be quite profound. When we look at the attack on the security woman in her car on the perimeter of the Christchurch International Airport in late January, or the cowardly and despicable attack on a police officer trying to do his duty in the midst of a mob of boy racers running riot, we see that this legislation is important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EOf course, it builds upon the legislation that the last Government passed. Harry Duynhoven was the architect of changes that came through in late 2007, and they, in turn, had built upon the changes brought by the legislation introduced by my friend and colleague Clayton Cosgrove. So the legislation was introduced in two forms in late 2007. I have to say that I saw some gaps in what was introduced in 2007. That got the support of Christchurch colleagues, and amendments were introduced in early 2008 with new regulations that gave police more powers to take cars off the road, to deal with noisy exhausts, and to modify noisy cars back to a maximum of 90 decibels. So members should not kid themselves about these issues but be very, very clear that the legislation is part of a continuum, and more changes may be needed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI state very clearly that it is one thing for us to pass a bill, but we must ensure that the police have the resources to deal with the ongoing issues. I have some nervousness when I see $21 million being squeezed from the police budget, when I see community officers being pressed back into service and not doing the community rounds that they are supposed to do, and when the police car fleet is reduced. Police resourcing is thin at the best of times, and the police need every effort to be made and support to be given. When we consider that in the last calendar year 1,500 offence notices were issued by police in Canterbury against boy racers\u2014about 10 times the number issued in Auckland\u2014it gives us an indication of the scale of the issue police are facing in my dear city of Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EWe are really seeing the tightening of the tourniquet with this legislation, but I have to pose the question of how much we as parliamentarians can actually achieve in this respect. Some of these measures simply say very explicitly to judges that they must get a little tougher. Of course, they have had the capacity to seize and confiscate cars on the first offence, but the indications are that even though there have been tens of thousands of occasions when that might have happened, only about 2 percent of the opportunities have been taken up by the courts. So I hope that, in a sense, the judiciary is able to take a little more notice of what Parliament is trying to express on behalf of a frustrated, aggrieved, and sometimes frightened constituency: that we as a nation have had a gutsful of the behaviour of boy racers. We as a Parliament, in large part\u2014certainly, the two major parties, with others\u2014agree that we need to continue to toughen up the legislation, but Parliament can achieve only so much on behalf of constituents. We need the police to be properly resourced, and we need the judiciary to take full note of the concerns that we as parliamentarians are expressing, not just on our own behalf but on behalf of the constituents whom we represent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EIf we want to see an idea of the scale of the issue, we look at Christchurch. I know that members of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee visited Christchurch, and I thank them for that. I know they were quite affected by some of the stories of constituents whose lives are being ruined by the behaviours that go on most weekend nights in Christchurch and in other cities. If any member wants to experience that, it can be very easily organised to go to a city like Christchurch, probably Hamilton, or maybe parts of Wellington and Auckland late on a Friday or Saturday night. They will get an idea of what we are dealing with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EJust for a moment I will talk about the building up of expectations. I think this legislation will help deal with these issues, and that is important, but we have to acknowledge that there is a high probability that we will be back in the Chamber looking at these issues in the future. That is rather disturbing. The reason I say that is that in the winter of last year I started getting feedback from citizens, community groups, and residents associations that the problem seemed to be abating in my electorate. I was pleased about that and thought that perhaps the legislative changes that had been introduced in February may be making a real difference. It turned out that when summer came the problem came back with a vengeance, and I think what caused the drop-off in boy-racer behaviour last winter was simply that petrol went to $2.20 a litre. It perhaps took more of them off the roads than the combination of legislative measures. So it was a bit of a false dawn in some respects. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EObviously, the measures in this legislation and its companion bill will have some impact. Those changes are very, very welcome, but let us not get our expectations too far up. We are missing some things in this legislation. The Supplementary Order Paper tabled by Labour could have made it tougher\u2014that is, a \u201Ctwo strikes and you\u2019re out\u201D policy, rather than \u201Cthree strikes and you may be out\u201D. Also, in the companion bill, there is a complete absence of any measure by the Government to deal with the issue of noise, which is probably as big an issue as the behaviour of boy racers: the constant roar of cars with, basically, unfiltered exhausts. Maybe\u2014I will be charitable\u2014the Government is keeping that issue in reserve to come back to at some future time. We will wait to see that, but certainly there is no evidence of that at this point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EIn summary, I believe that we as a Parliament have dealt with this issue. We are passing this legislation, and that is important. I believe that we may, unfortunately, have to be back here on the issue in the not too distant future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00223bc5a34aa1684690915867ae76738b70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bc5a34aa1684690915867ae76738b70\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E I did not agree with what Keith Locke had to say earlier, and I make that very clear, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea1a00da39304742a656ca3684395fc1\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Where is that tie from?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a04d13eaa7f148dc8024269ae5b95424\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014everyone on the other side is wearing a yellow tie\u2014what I, at least, liked about what Keith Locke said was that he had the courage of his convictions and that he said he would be voting against this bill. He may be wrong, but at least he has the courage of his convictions. I contrast that with what we read by Patrick Gower, a political reporter, in the New Zealand Herald this morning about Labour\u2019s position on the bill: \u201CThe Labour Party, which has prevaricated and criticised the boy-racer legislation, will support both bills and the other four law and order bills as well.\u201D How confused is that? It is interesting that when we look at that, we see that Labour gets just a paragraph in a very long story. I would say that that paragraph is in fact about 4.6 percent of the story, and that says something about the polls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EBut I say seriously in relation to the legislation that we have a serious problem. No one is saying that it will fix all the problems and make everything better, but it is a good start. We have said it before, and I will say it again: it is a tool in the tool box for the police and the justice system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227104640cde314f8ea23ad07bda42874d\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, what a clich\u00E9. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8b5347105fe468bb44b2d203edc16c3\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: But it is true. When we put this legislation with the series of bills the Government is putting forward, there is a significant law and order agenda there that is making the streets safer, slowly but surely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI just say, as well, that this is a serious problem certainly in Christchurch, and we have heard from Brendan Burns about some of the problems there. But it is a problem even in Tauranga, although it is not at the level we have heard about in Christchurch, and seen on television. I did a survey in my electorate, and I was very interested to know what people thought about boy racers. I was very specific about the question, because I wanted to know whether people believed that it was a problem specifically in Tauranga rather than out and about. So my question was specific. Of the nearly 6,000 people\u2014that is right: 6,000 people\u2014who responded to the survey, 59 percent were very concerned about boy racers in their areas. So this is a problem and we are addressing it. The legislation will not solve everything, but it will send a message of deterrence to boy racers and illegal street racers that we are watching them, and that in worst-case scenarios their cars will be crushed. I commend the legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u002261174f0ba87c4130847eb6486f63a551\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261174f0ba87c4130847eb6486f63a551\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call in the third readings of the vehicle confiscation and seizure legislation. As Labour has repeatedly said, we are supporting this bill. We have reservations about it that I will go into a little bit more shortly, but I want to reflect on some of the considerations of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. Before I do that, I acknowledge the work of the select committee, and particularly the officials. Whether or not we like it, the decision-making process on the select committee was not perfect. In fact, it was far from perfect. The Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill was rushed through and there was a change of report-back date at the last minute. I think that made it very difficult for the officials who were required to come back with their report far earlier than they should have been made to. It also made it difficult for the Labour members with regard to taking the issues to our caucus and considering them properly. It was not a great process. However, we have put that behind us, and here we are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI observe that this legislation was supposed to be the king hit on boy racers, but I fear that the public have been fed a whole lot of big talk and bragging by this Government. The reality is that this legislation will not make a huge difference to the problem of illegal street racing. I am really sorry about that. I am sorry for the 58 people who made submissions to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. I am sorry for the 30 submitters who made the effort to come along to the select committee to be heard. I am sorry for the residents in the communities who came to the select committee and talked about the way that this problem is affecting them and said that it is having a real impact on their well-being. I am especially sorry for those communities that are expecting a miracle to occur when this legislation is passed, because they have been led to believe that this legislation will mean that peace will reign once more in their neighbourhoods. Well, it will not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI am also very disappointed that Minister Judith Collins failed to accept the Labour Party\u2019s offer of assistance through Clayton Cosgrove\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 73. We were trying to be helpful to the Government, to toughen up the legislation so that it would work and would make a difference. It is very interesting that the Police Association, for example, said that this legislation was a sideshow, a waste of time, and it ignored the real issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1af0b6ee36b47e28bbc79fe6be30f28\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Did they really?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022977a6880b7e443d8adb73ea7e97e3367\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: The Police Association said that. It had some other suggestions that were very good, and I will talk about that a little more. Minister Judith Collins has talked tough. It was interesting that in the Committee stage this morning she started to say that the legislation is not really about being tough and crushing vehicles, but about changing behaviour. It is not a silver bullet. It will not fix the problem\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e65b11eb73934bf7acce57ca779df9e5\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: It was few months ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233873a87a87040479a5769aa173bae25\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: It was a few months ago, when we heard her in the media and when she got her nickname. It is not what the Government has been saying up and down the country. It is not what it has been saying over many years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIn fact, I think this has been a hard lesson not only for Minister Judith Collins but also for some other members; for example, Nicky Wagner\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dae8415fb1694b6d9bcde9b2a30d7e7e\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CWarg-ner\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243362fdcc7284de2b174165343f43504\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Nicky \u201CWarg-ner\u201D\u2014with her petition, and the National members who campaigned in Christchurch in the 2005 and 2008 election campaigns on this issue. Those members got people to believe that there was a simple solution to this problem. They had people believe that not enough had been done and that they would fix it. It is very disappointing, as my colleague Brendon Burns observed this morning, that we have had no National MP from Christchurch participating in either the Committee stage or the third reading of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022752da0dd116c4a6b90b0c64537ab6c8b\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve had Simon Bridges from Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c3e5320b63f4f9b805939dfb1b23cef\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is right. I want to know where those members\u2019 contributions have been in the final stages of this debate. I ask what Nicky Wagner has to say about this. I ask what she has to say about the noise, which was the real issue that she campaigned on. We have heard about that issue from many of our colleagues from our side of the Chamber. That seemed to be the No. 1 issue affecting the submitters who came along to the select committee. It has been left to Labour to run the arguments, to ask the questions, and to try to make this legislation work. As I said, it is very disappointing that our offer has not been taken up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EOne of the things that is worth recording is that of the 17 submitters who commented on vehicle confiscation and destruction, seven were opposed to that aspect of the legislation. Two of those submitters are big organisations. One was the Police Association, as I have mentioned, and the other one was the New Zealand Automobile Association. It said that it did not favour crushing vehicles. It said that it was a Draconian measure motivated by revenge, although it acknowledged that the number of vehicles likely to be crushed under the legislation will be low. The Minister owned up to that this morning too, and said that that would be the case. The Automobile Association did a survey of its members in March 2009 in which 65 percent of its members supported permanent vehicle confiscation for repeat offenders, but only 11 percent supported the crushing of cars. It is quite interesting to hear that. Despite all the hoopla made by this Government about crushing cars and all the rest of it, the public have shown that they have quite a lot of common sense when it comes to this issue. They want the cars off the road. They think that permanent confiscation is enough. They think that car destruction is a waste of taxpayers\u2019 money and that it has been talked up by a Minister who wants to look tough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EOne of the other interesting things that was discussed in the select committee was the role of the police. I completely support my colleagues who said that it is the Government\u2019s job to ensure that with regard to this legislation and its companion bill that we passed yesterday, the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill, the police must have enough resources to implement the changes. In the Committee stage I asked for some reassurance from the Minister that that would be the case, and I got no reply. The police told us that they have recently undertaken measures, led by the assistant commissioner of operations, to ensure that the operational response to illegal street racing is nationwide and consistent, that the police are fully utilising existing legislation, and that a clear measurement of illegal street racing activity is made in each district. That demonstrated to me that the police considered that the powers they already have are sufficient and that it was more of an issue of resources, as they said in their submission to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ESome people in this debate and in the debate on the previous bill mentioned the success in Manukau of Operation Sniper as a mechanism for prosecuting boy racers and working within existing laws. Just to outline that a little, judges in Manukau are working within the provisions already available to them prior to this legislation becoming law and are handing out much harsher penalties for illegal street racing than courts elsewhere. Two 17-year-olds were recently disqualified from driving for a year and fined $1,000, as well as being ordered to pay $130 in court costs, for racing their cars in Papatoetoe. Their cars were registered to their fathers for insurance purposes, and they were impounded for 28 days and it cost each youth $400 to recover them. This came about because the case was reported by a concerned motorist, and the police are encouraging other motorists to report similar behaviour. The police say that about a third of the 60 complaints made each month to Operation Sniper provide enough identification, such as car registration, for the police to follow up and prosecute. Most cases have resulted in convictions, with the driver being disqualified for at least 6 months, fined up to $4,500, and the car being impounded. The police also reported that illegal street racing has been scaled back considerably since Operation Sniper started. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThat report and what the police told us demonstrate that the laws we already have in place can work with the will of the Government and with sufficient resources for the police and without the grandstanding that we have seen around this legislation. We admit that there are a couple of loopholes. That is why we are supporting the legislation and will not stand in its way. But having said that, I repeat that we regret the fact that the Government did not accept Labour\u2019s offer of assistance to make this legislation work as it was intended to do. What we had in place around confiscation was perfectly adequate, as is demonstrated by Operation Sniper in Manukau. A couple of loopholes just needed to be closed, and there needed to be some investigation into why the courts were not confiscating vehicles permanently in the way that they are able to do under the existing legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022cfec237bd84b40e594180110c5c53c65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cfec237bd84b40e594180110c5c53c65\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to stand and speak in support of this legislation. I congratulate the Hon Judith Collins on taking this legislation through the steps that it needs to take. Right now throughout our country there are thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of teenage boys, particularly, who have posters on their walls of hot, shiny cars with slick tyres, big exhaust pipes, and very, very powerful engines. In fact, the engines that these cars have these days are probably far more powerful than the engines that racing car drivers had in their cars 20 or 30 years ago. These inexperienced drivers are driving their vehicles much to their pleasure, but much to the danger of other people around them. I think that this legislation is legislation of great responsibility to society, to those people in different communities who are plagued by not only the tremendous volume of sound but also the danger that exists outside their front doors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EMembers will be aware that vehicles these days have incredible power. It is easy for people just to turn on the gas, to take these vehicles to incredible speed very, very quickly, and to lose control. No doubt there are people in this House who have done precisely that over the years. I am sure that has never been the occurrence when you, Mr Assistant Speaker Barker, ride your motorcycle through the country, as you are a tremendously law-abiding citizen. But I am sure that other people will not be as law-abiding as you are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIt is also important to note that this legislation takes account of some serious offences and tragic fatalities that have taken place over these last years. I am sure that the parents and family members of those who have died because of illegal street racing will, this day, have an increased sense of closure in their grief. They will see that this legislation will help to prevent other young people from dying and other families from suffering the tragedy they have suffered. Today we remember Scott Finn, who died in Mount Maunganui; we remember Laureen Helen Reilly, an elderly woman; we remember Ratu Victor Vikash, a 23-year-old; we remember two girls, both aged 16, who passed away in Christchurch at that party; and we remember pedestrian Amy Edward-Minton, killed on a crossing in Cambridge Terrace, Wellington. We remember these people. We remember Billy Wall and other people who have lost their lives because of illegal street racing. We know that their family members today will have a sense of closure because of this legislation we are passing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI think it is sensible, good legislation and I commend it to the House. I congratulate our Minister, the Hon Judith Collins, on bringing the legislation to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022842d000ab71c48609f484a648de207db\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Sentencing (Vehicle Confiscation) Amendment Bill, the Summary Proceedings (Vehicle Seizure) Amendment Bill, and the Privacy Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 113\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBills read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ad46e9197fb54d7dac8a6ece4e4585b3\u0022\u003ESocial Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d50f9519dcd94c798ea0caab5044e652\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u002216bd21b559454c7da7596f79890a66b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216bd21b559454c7da7596f79890a66b4\u0022\u003EHon JOHN CARTER (Minister of Civil Defence)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment: I move, That the Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. The National Government is committed to ensuring that older New Zealanders have more freedom in their retirement, and I understand that this bill is supported right across the House. The purpose of the bill is to make amendments to the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001 and the War Pensions Act 1954 to make it easier for superannuitants and veterans pensioners to live or travel overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EAt the moment there are a variety of ways in which New Zealand superannuation and the veterans pension can be paid overseas, depending on where a superannuitant or a veterans pensioner intends to go, for how long, and for what purpose. Superannuitants and veterans pensioners leaving New Zealand temporarily can receive full payment for up to 26 weeks and are not affected by the amendments in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThere are currently three methods for paying superannuitants and veterans pensioners who wish to leave New Zealand to reside in another country. First, there is a provision for payment under the reciprocal social security agreements with other countries. These allow superannuitants and veterans pensioners to receive up to the full rate of payment, depending on how long they have resided in New Zealand. We have agreements with Australia, Canada, Greece, the Netherlands, Jersey, Guernsey, Denmark, Ireland, and the United Kingdom. Second, there are special provisions for people heading off to live in most Pacific countries that also allow them to receive up to the full rate of payment, depending on how long they too have lived in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EFinally, there are provisions for people moving to all other countries. These are known as the general portability provisions. Superannuitants and veterans pensioners who leave New Zealand to live in one of these countries are currently paid a flat rate of 50 percent of the gross rate of the pension that would be payable in New Zealand, except that there is no additional payment for a non-qualified spouse or partner, or a living alone payment. The amendments in the bill relate solely to the general portability provisions and will not affect New Zealand\u2019s social security agreements or the special provisions for Pacific countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThis bill is necessary because the general portability provisions are preventing many of our superannuitants and veterans pensioners from moving to a country of their choice or travelling overseas. Two main issues will be addressed by this bill. The flat rate of 50 percent provides insufficient income to allow a reasonable standard of living in many countries. Therefore, it is unrealistic for many pensioners to consider retiring to another country. The general portability provisions restrict the ability of superannuitants and veterans pensioners to reside in one country and then move to another country to live, because payment overseas is linked to residence in one particular country. This also means that superannuitants and veterans pensioners who want to head off on the OE of their golden years cannot continue to receive payment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EConsequently, the bill will make two changes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bcdf2332b6b445b9fdc3b1263db9c26\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: When\u2019s the member going to go?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ea224fd2ac94a689b5e936c17805b73\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: His retirement OE.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efa8f0176c9e473ba84d0b0968372d89\u0022\u003EHon JOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, it affects the likes of myself, and I might say that it will not be long before it will affect the members opposite who interject. The key change is a new payment rate. Instead of the current flat 50 percent of the domestic rate, the superannuitant or veterans pensioner will be able to receive up to the full rate of New Zealand superannuation or veterans pension, depending on how long he or she lived in New Zealand between the ages of 20 and 65. There continues to be no entitlement to any additional payment for a non-qualified spouse or partner, or to a living alone payment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe second change is that the bill will free up the rules restricting the ability of superannuitants and veterans pensioners to move around once they get overseas. The bill will allow payment of New Zealand superannuation and veterans pensions to superannuitants and veterans pensioners who want to live in more than one country with which New Zealand has no social security agreement, whether they remain in the country they first move to reside in, or move to reside in another country. In addition, the bill also allows for the payment of superannuation and veterans pensions to those who leave New Zealand to travel in or between any countries for more than 26 weeks, but to not live outside New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe new provisions represent a modernisation of the payment overseas policy that has been in place since 1990. The rate was originally set at 50 percent, partly because the superannuation surcharge was not applied to payment overseas. Now the surcharge has gone and, therefore, it has no relevance to the amount of pension we pay overseas. Forcing older people to remain in one country or preventing their ability to travel serves no particular purpose, and it is not in tune with what today\u2019s retirees want to do. It is not the philosophy of this National Government to do so, either. Actually, I doubt whether it is the philosophy of this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe bill had its first reading on 31 May 2009. It was then referred to the Social Services Committee, which reported back to the House on 18 September 2009. The select committee received 99 written submissions on the bill, with the majority in support of it. The committee received many submissions that did not primarily address the subject matter of the bill, but focused on the direct deduction policy set out in section 70 of the Social Security Act 1964. That policy is not within the scope of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225468d1881df5404094ef39cda7aec43c\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: The audience is giving up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d24e3a625cba48a8b5150c058e000b3c\u0022\u003EHon JOHN CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it will affect them in due course; it will be a little time before they take a direct interest in it, nevertheless. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe select committee has made some technical changes and one substantive change. This amendment will ensure that if someone is out of the country for a while but is still counted as being present for the purposes of fulfilling the residential qualifications for superannuation, then he or she will be counted as residing in New Zealand for the purpose of the proportional payment formula. Examples of this would include those who are outside New Zealand for special medical treatment or medical training, those who are serving on a New Zealand - registered ship or serving in the armed forces, those who are undertaking Volunteer Service Abroad work or missionary work, and those who are employed in New Zealand embassies overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003ESome submitters asked that people be allowed to apply for New Zealand superannuation while residing overseas. The select committee noted that allowing applications from overseas would change the parameters and costs of the bill\u2019s proposal significantly. Therefore, it recommended no change in this regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe select committee noted\u2014and this is quite an important point\u2014that the Income Tax Act 2007 does not differentiate between the tax treatment of people living overseas and people who are travelling. As a result, payments made to overseas residents and those who are travelling would be exempt from New Zealand tax under the general portability provisions in the bill. However, although overseas residents are subject to taxation in their country of residence, Kiwis travelling overseas would not be subject to any tax liability. For this reason the committee considered that the Income Tax Act 2007 should be amended in order to remove the tax exemption for people who are travelling. Such an amendment would require a substantive amendment to the Income Tax Act 2007, which has not been amended substantially by this bill as originally introduced. The committee was, therefore, prevented by Standing Order 299 from recommending such an amendment without the leave of the House. It instead suggested that the Government give consideration to this issue in depth if a review of the relevant legislation is undertaken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EI agree with the committee\u2019s view that the New Zealand superannuation and veterans pension paid to travellers should not be exempt from income tax. The Government will, therefore, be seeking to make amendments to the Income Tax Act 2007 to ensure that New Zealand superannuation and veterans pensions paid to travellers is subject to income tax in the same way that those payments are taxed while they reside in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EAnother theme raised by submitters was the concern that current recipients of New Zealand superannuation and veterans pensions paid overseas under the general portability provisions would be disadvantaged by the proposed savings provisions. I can assure the House that no superannuitants or veterans pensioners will receive less under the proposals in the bill than they are receiving currently. In fact, many will receive more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe introduction of the bill to this House is very timely. Our society is becoming increasingly diverse, and Kiwis are travelling and living in other countries more often. It should also be noted that the attitude towards older people in this country is changing and needs to continue to change, because the contribution of us baby boomers will be far greater than has previously been anticipated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I reiterate that this bill is part of the Government\u2019s commitment to ensuring that older New Zealanders are free to decide how they spend their retirement. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00222e64d5c0bc4d4e538b4d735ac6be1963\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e64d5c0bc4d4e538b4d735ac6be1963\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I commend the Minister for Senior Citizens, John Carter, for reading that speech so beautifully. It came straight from the Social Services Committee\u2019s report back to this House, but I think it is important that we get that on the record of the House, so I thank the Minister for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThere does not need to be an extended debate on this bill. The reason is that the Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill was a Labour bill, introduced to this House in September 2008 by the Hon Ruth Dyson. The only thing that has changed in respect of this bill, with the change of Government, is the name of the Minister on the cover of the bill. It is one of those moments when we can say that there is general agreement across this Parliament on the changes that have been made to this bill. I commend the Minister for not trying to put a lot of flannel around his speech and take credit for a bill that started under one Government and will be finished under another. Unfortunately, the speech from the Minister for Social Development and Employment, when she last spoke on the bill, was all about the wonderful achievements of National in this respect. I found that to be just a little dishonest, in that this bill was started under Labour, as I said, and will be finished by National. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EIs it not good that in this Parliament we have agreement on a bill that will benefit those who are retiring? You know, I look at Mr Carter, and he is obviously looking into the horizon\u2014many years ahead\u2014and thinking that maybe one day he would like to take his pension and head off to the Caribbean or wherever he wishes to go. For many people this is an important bill and an important change that is being made. We agree on this bill, and, hopefully, we will stick to the key issues. I think the key issues have been set out pretty clearly by the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThose issues go to the fact that under the legislation that has been in place since 1990 there was the provision of a flat rate of 50 percent of the domestic rate of the pension, where a person left New Zealand with the intention to reside in a country with which New Zealand had no agreement relating to the reciprocity of social security monetary benefits. That was the formula that was used. That flat rate led older New Zealanders to defer retiring overseas, because obviously that would be insufficient income to allow them a reasonable standard of living in retirement in another country. The payment is also currently linked to residents in one particular overseas country, which means that superannuitants or veterans pensioners cannot travel to or between multiple countries and continue to receive their pension. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EFrom the passage of this bill, which I assume will be around November this year, qualifying superannuitants and veterans pensioners who wish to travel between any overseas country and retain their entitlements will be allowed to do so. As the Minister set out, this bill allows people to make decisions about where they wish to reside. We can look at the formula and see that it is very fair. The formula that is being put in place is not the 50 percent flat rate any more; people will receive New Zealand superannuation or a veterans pension overseas, based on a formula of 1/540th of the full rate of each month of residence in New Zealand, between the ages of 20 and 65. It might sound rather complicated, but it is able to be worked out relatively easily. People will know what they are then able to take if they retire in another country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ESubmissions were made to the select committee that we did not consider, because they really were outside the scope of the bill. Some submitted that when they arrived in New Zealand and became a citizen of New Zealand, they should be able to receive the full pension as soon as they retired. That was, as I said, outside the scope of the bill. There are issues around fairness when it comes to people who have paid for superannuation through their taxes over many, many years, and would receive a particular formula if they went overseas, and then a person who arrived in New Zealand and had been here only a short time would retire and get the full pension, having the same rights. That was not something that the select committee dwelled on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe bill was sent to the Social Services Committee on 31 March this year. It received 99 submissions, and we heard 13 of them. We did not hear more, because many of the submissions did not relate to the bill itself, at all. They raised an issue in respect of section 70 of the Social Security Act 1964, and that relates to the direct deduction of an overseas pension from New Zealand superannuation. This has been a longstanding issue, and I see the Minister John Carter nodding: he has no doubt had representation, particularly from people of Dutch descent who have come to New Zealand with a Dutch pension and wanted to retain that pension alongside their New Zealand superannuation. We as a Government saw that as unfinished business, and in fact the previous Minister for Social Development and Employment, Ruth Dyson, had done a considerable amount of work on that. I think the challenge now for the new Government is to look at that issue and to proceed with it. It will not go away, because many New Zealanders feel that this is unfairness and a disincentive. When they have saved in another country in a private pension scheme, for example, or in a pension scheme that they could have in New Zealand, it is a disincentive and they are not able to have it, or that they can have it but it affects their New Zealand superannuation. I say to the Minister and his colleagues that the challenge is to look at that issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWe made very few changes to the bill itself, and I think the Minister has set out pretty clearly what they are. In fact, one of the changes we made was, as he said, for people who are outside New Zealand for special purposes\u2014those who have gone to get medical treatment, are serving on a New Zealand - registered ship, are in the armed forces, are working for Volunteer Service Abroad or doing missionary work, or, perhaps, are employed in embassies overseas\u2014their time outside New Zealand would be counted as residence for the purpose of the formula that I have just set out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ESome people are engaged in charity work overseas but are not part of Volunteer Service Abroad; there may be some other organisations that are not covered here. We did not put them in the legislation, but we said that, should the opportunity arise, it would be valuable for the Government to consider this issue further in the future. That was one of the changes that we made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EOne submission that I think was pretty important was from the New Zealand Returned and Services\u2019 Association around the veterans pension. I know that there is a lot of concern by veterans that they have been counted with New Zealand superannuation in terms of this formula and in terms of the portability of their pension overseas. The case they put to the select committee is that they receive a veterans pension based not on their age but on the disability they received in their service for New Zealand. They may receive their veterans pension at 45, not 65, and, in their view, if they wish to travel and live overseas in another country, they ought to be able to take their veterans pension with them, and it should not be linked to New Zealand superannuation, but based on the fact that they are entitled to it because of their disability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWe could not address that issue at select committee, but I believe it needs to be addressed, and I know that the previous Minister of Veterans\u2019 Affairs, Rick Barker, has been responsible for the rewrite of the Veterans\u2019 Affairs Act. He first of all started the work with the Law Commission, which hopefully will lead to a rewrite of the Act itself, and I hope that this issue is addressed in relation to that. The Returned and Services\u2019 Association, obviously a very significant group, made a very compelling case, but we could not address it at the select committee itself. A number of other issues were raised, and I think that they were really unable to be addressed by the committee, either because it was an income tax issue, or it was an issue that would have made the bill unfair for other New Zealanders. We looked very carefully at the non-qualifying spouse\u2014how he or she could be included\u2014but we did not want to make this bill unfair for other New Zealanders. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002258d11ef104634f7f8539cf7e4673b7b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258d11ef104634f7f8539cf7e4673b7b0\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to rise in support of the Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill. As the previous speaker, Annette King, said, this bill will have support across the House. Although she started by saying she did not want to get political, she had a crack at the Minister for Social Development and Employment for taking more credit for the bill than she should. But putting that aside, I think we need to acknowledge the previous Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bd4fc49fd934eef88020da419fda76e\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: You agree, then. Do you agree that she did?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221db68fbf29634075933269d041cc4e3e\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: I will get to that. We should acknowledge the previous Minister, Ruth Dyson, for her work, but the bill, having been introduced, languished for several months. I think the fact that this bill has been brought before the House for its second reading, in amongst the plethora of legislation that this hard-working Government is putting through, is a testament to the very hard-working Minister for Senior Citizens and the high priority that this Government places on that very important section of our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI was not a member of the Social Services Committee, but I thank those members for their work, and I also thank the officials for their work on what is such sensible legislation. It also, I think, reflects the fact that our society is changing. We are much more mobile, we are fluid, and thanks to the baby boomers we are increasingly getting older on average, but we are fitter and more mobile. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EAs some members know, my mother passed away about 3 weeks ago, and I take this opportunity to thank members of the House for their messages of condolence through that time. In the last few years of her life she was very active, and she travelled. Had my father still been alive, I am quite sure they would have taken advantage of the opportunity to spend quite some time away in the countries they discovered in their later years. Their friends are still doing that. I expect that this legislation will come as a real boost to them in being able to travel more fluidly through other countries, whereas previously they were not able to, and also to earn a more generous rate of superannuation, up from the current flat rate of 50 percent. So I congratulate both the previous and present Ministers and the select committee, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c67f3557a6c64161b6fb19584e716b54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c67f3557a6c64161b6fb19584e716b54\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Although I could support the principles that lie behind the Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill, one can describe the bill as having a number of faulty details. In fact, I would go so far as to say I have grave doubts about the fairness and equity of this bill and the way it treats different New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EIt treats different New Zealanders in a number of ways. The bill creates a number of secondary effects that have not been taken into account, and, in large part, aspects of the bill have been driven by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade as a de facto form of foreign aid. That, I think, is to be regretted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EMaybe I can illustrate the point that I want to make with a graph. Members may not be able to see it, but there are three different areas\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f21245784a09450da9117a36b5663d08\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we can\u2019t see it if you don\u2019t hold it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb8c441a6f864033b3d2515226807304\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS\u003C/span\u003E: I will hold it up in a moment when I get to the point I am illustrating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EFirstly, there are New Zealanders who wish to retire to places with which we already have an international agreement. Up to today, this group of people theoretically have actually been advantaged. This bill does nothing for that group. They remain where they are. In fact, many New Zealanders who go to Australia, for example\u2014because that is where their children have gone to live and work\u2014having worked here for 47 years, might find themselves in the position of actually getting zero, because they have to comply with the Australian rules, and the Australian rules mean that they are means-tested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EThis graph plots the number of years worked against the percentage of New Zealand superannuation one would receive. If I look at the graph, I see that if I go to Australia or any of the countries that we currently have an agreement with, I could get zero, or I could be anywhere between zero and this red line, which represents superannuation in non-Pacific countries. If I go to any other country, apart from the 22 Pacific Island countries, I will be on the red line. On the other hand, if I go to live in one of the 22 Pacific Island countries\u2014it does not matter whether I am a Pacific Islander; I could be an American who has been here for 10 or 20 years\u2014I will be on the blue line, which beyond the 10-year mark is higher than the red line. The gap between the red line and the blue line is the advantage\u2014the extra I would get. So if I am an American who has come here to live for 10 or 20 years, as long as I say that I will retire in one of the Pacific Islands, I can go on to that top line of the graph.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EI will tell members about one of the unintended consequences of the bill. Pacific Island people who can come to New Zealand for 10 or 20 years would be absolutely mad not to do just that. The return for the 10 or 20 years is huge. One of the unintended consequences of this bill is that we are saying to Pacific Island people that in their best working years they should come to New Zealand. It will get Pacific Island people and others to come here for 10 or 20 years in order to get the benefits of this pension. In their best working years they will not be contributing in the Islands; they will be contributing elsewhere. To me that is preferential treatment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EThe fact is that it was driven, as I understand it, by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade as a de facto form of foreign aid. It seems odd to use a policy instrument as blunt as superannuation as a mechanism to deliver aid to the Pacific Islands. Cash handouts to particular demographic groups of society could hardly be considered to be an effective aid programme. It may be that that is what we intend to do. It may be that we are happy for someone to come from a foreign country, let us say America, spend 10 or 20 years here and then be able to retire on, in some cases, a 100 percent pension, provided the place of residence is in one of the 22 Pacific Islands. It seems to me to be odd that New Zealanders who have lived here for 65 years, worked for 47 of those years, and gone to live in Australia get nothing because they have an income beyond $39,000, but others who come here and spend as little as 10 years here can get 50 percent of the pension.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EI do not think this bill has been carefully thought out. It will create anomalies. More particularly, I believe it will have some secondary effects that will not be helpful to the Pacific Islands. I know the intention was that it would be helpful, so that Pacific Islanders in particular could return, so that the Islands would benefit. But the fact is that this bill will say to people that if they come here for 10 years, they will get a substantial pension, and that if they stay for 20 years, they will get an even bigger pension. We are saying to Pacific Islanders that if they come here, they will get a pension of 5 percent per year, provided they do the minimum 10 years. As for New Zealanders, they can work for 47 or 45 years and get 2.25 percent per year, but if they go to Australia or one of those countries that we have an arrangement with, it may well be that they get nothing. Personally, I do not think there is much fairness in that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002220f6092e7e634afa9b737e72334697ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220f6092e7e634afa9b737e72334697ca\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E That was an extraordinary speech from the Hon Sir Roger Douglas, who criticised both the Government and the Labour Party, and described the Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill as being preferential and as some sort of back-door deal to allow people from Pacific countries to come to New Zealand in order to get a pension. That speech came from a member of Parliament who not only earns $100,000-plus in his job\u2014and I am sure he earns that money\u2014but also is one of the few members of this House who are still entitled to receive the gold-plated parliamentary superannuation scheme as well as his national superannuation entitlement. He comes to this House to criticise what is quite a small amendment, but one that will allow people who have earned their entitlement to New Zealand superannuation to then retire in countries of their choice, without being disadvantaged. I think the country will be gobsmacked by the cheek of that speech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdefd1e96d324431adc4eb657834faaa\u0022\u003EHon Sir Roger Douglas\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not really want to interrupt the member, but she should not make the sorts of accusations that she is making. In fact, since I came back into Parliament I have no longer drawn parliamentary superannuation. I think the member knows that, but for her to say that is incorrect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294be1639ab274029af114db7689b1df0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not strictly a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022351e6726db0a4abd826ceb6442ac4933\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister John Carter, who spoke earlier in the debate, talked about his support and National\u2019s support for this legislation, and about how he was looking forward to his retirement time and to being able, perhaps, to take advantage of this amendment to the superannuation legislation, as we all will be able to do when we retire. The Hon John Carter, who will be entitled to receive New Zealand superannuation in just under 6 years\u2019 time, may well have spoken with confidence about that, but I personally do not share that confidence. The reason why I do not share that confidence is that even though in this particular instance the Government is supporting legislation that will benefit hard-working New Zealanders who have earned superannuation, it has also, in this very same year, gutted the fund that gives New Zealanders confidence in their future entitlement to New Zealand superannuation at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis Government has committed New Zealand to a decade of deferred payment to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. That fund gave all of us who were in our 30s, 40s, or 50s confidence that we could look forward to a retirement age of 65 and know that we would be able to receive superannuation at its current level. The gutting of that fund means that New Zealanders like the Hon John Carter, when he retires at the age of 65 on 8 May 2015, will no longer be able to have the confidence that he will receive that superannuation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ENot only was that a very bad move for superannuitants but also it was very bad in terms of basic financial management. I am not sure how the Hon Bill English managed to convince the entire National caucus to support the gutting of the scheme. When Treasury did its analysis, it said that by 2031, when the withdrawals from the Superannuation Fund will be completed, the fund will be short by $35 billion. That is how much money Bill English has taken out of the fund, and that is how much money we will be short of when we try to ensure that superannuitants in the future will be able to receive superannuation at the current level. Treasury also said\u2014again, I say this is Treasury information\u2014that Bill English\u2019s plan gutted the Superannuation Fund by 50 percent, and that we will never be able to catch up that money. If we have the decade of deferrals of payments into the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, we will never catch up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI am not even sure whether National wants to catch up on those payments. John Key has said publicly to the media that as soon as New Zealand is in surplus again the Government will start to contribute to the Superannuation Fund, but, at the very same time his deputy, Bill English, said on the public record that there would have to be trade-offs in the future, if we were to return to investing in our future superannuation, which is what the Superannuation Fund is about. He said there would have to be trade-offs between a resumption of contributions to the Superannuation Fund, tax cuts, and spending. We all know where Bill English\u2019s choice lies. He has always gone for tax cuts now, particularly for those who are very high-income earners, at the expense of investing in future superannuation payments. People who are now in their 40s and 50s, and even in their early 60s, hard-working New Zealanders who are paying their taxes and paying their way in our society, have not received a tax cut from Bill English or the National Government, because the tax cuts programme went as soon as the Government could get away with it. All the tax cuts went to the highest-income earners. Now people know that they will not have the confidence to look forward, at 65 years of age, to receiving superannuation in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EAlthough the National members come to this House and say they support this bill, which was introduced under the previous Labour Government, those words have very little meaning to people who know that New Zealanders might be able to retire overseas and be better off under this legislation, but that we will not actually receive superannuation at the level that it is currently paid at. So this Government gives with one hand and takes away much more with the other. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThat is not the only area where National has taken something away from older people. Day after day we have heard concerns being raised by my colleague Maryan Street, and a total denial from the Minister for Tertiary Education, Anne Tolley, about the damage that is being done in our communities by the 80 percent gutting of the Adult and Community Education fund. A lot of older New Zealanders will be very badly affected by that. People who are at home on their own, who have worked hard all their lives, and who get to 65, now have some time. They might be able to learn something they have always wanted to learn. They might be very lonely, so they might want to go to a night class or a class during the day to develop some friendships. Or they might just want to get out of their house. Anne Tolley said they can just pay for adult and community education themselves. Unfortunately, our schools throughout the country and our community centres, which have been running these night classes and other classes during the day, have said they cannot afford to run them any more, because Anne Tolley has gutted the fund that has made those services available to thousands and thousands of, particularly, older New Zealanders for many years. Again, I say the Government is supporting this legislation but taking away the opportunity for older New Zealanders to go to night classes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe Minister for ACC, who, I hope, will be in the House later on this afternoon to try to explain yet again his position on accident compensation, has made one of the most savage cuts to older people that any of us can imagine. It is to take away the funding for a programme that is not only good but also highly regarded internationally, a programme that has been well researched and proven to be successful. That is the falls prevention programme. Up and down the country older people have been learning how to strengthen their muscles and how to have better balance, so that they can reduce the risk of falling, injuring themselves, breaking hips, and putting huge costs on to not just our health system but also themselves and their families personally. That programme is designed specifically to help older people to reduce the risk of falling and being injured. It has been gutted; it is gone. There is no more money. Once again, I say that although the National Government says it supports this legislation, introduced by a Labour-led Government, it is taking away yet another thing from older people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EOf course we have also heard, particularly from my Canterbury colleagues Jim Anderton, Lianne Dalziel, Clayton Cosgrove, and Brendon Burns, about the savage cuts in home support for older people. For many people a couple of hours of home support, at very low rates of pay and at very low cost to the taxpayer, is the difference between that person being able to stay safely and well in his or her own home, and having to move into a rest home. It provides people with a genuine choice about where they want to live, and it provides them with the opportunity to stay in their home, often right up until the time that they die. Now we are seeing further cuts in the health system and front-line services being cut for some of the most vulnerable people in our community: older New Zealanders, who have worked hard and contributed by raising their families or by being in a paid job. They are people who deserve to be respected and valued, rather than to be at the cutting edge of health cuts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI support this bill and urge its progress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022 data-id=\u0022eee361ebeea547c69a34b740f0f12d32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eee361ebeea547c69a34b740f0f12d32\u0022\u003ESUE BRADFORD (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party will continue to support the Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill through all stages in the House today. We agree with the previous Labour Government, which introduced this legislation in the first place, and with National, which followed through with it, that people on superannuation and the veterans pension should be able to continue to receive their entitlements while travelling or living overseas, even in countries with which we have no reciprocal social security arrangements. Up until now, people could not receive their full pension in that situation, and that has had an ongoing negative impact on many older New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EDuring the consideration of the bill by the Social Services Committee, members heard a number of submissions supporting the bill from the perspective of the yachting fraternity. Clearly a considerable number of our older citizens use retirement as an opportunity to take to the ocean wave. For those people the current law and regulations make such cruising highly problematic, as they have to return home every 6 months to retain any eligibility at all for the pension. Those citizens are delighted with the freedom to travel that this new law will provide. Of course, it is not just those roaming the high seas who will benefit from this bill, but all our older people who want the freedom to choose the country they live in, while still receiving full entitlement to superannuation. In an age when so many people here are still migrants themselves and would like the chance to spend time in their country of origin, and also at a time when many of us have children living overseas, the ability to spend considerable periods with family elsewhere is particularly precious. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EOne improvement we made at the select committee that was endorsed by the Green Party was to make it clear that people who are outside of New Zealand for special medical treatment or training, who serve in the armed forces or our embassy service abroad, who work on a New Zealand - owned ship, or who are undertaking VSA work or missionary work should have that time counted as New Zealand residence when it comes to working out the formula to calculate the proportion of superannuation they are paid while overseas once they turn 65. However, I continue to have a concern that Kiwis who have worked overseas in either a paid or a volunteer capacity for non-governmental organisations other than Volunteer Service Abroad or religious bodies will not be covered by the same provision. I think it is a glaring inequity, as working for Oxfam or Save the Children should not be seen in a different light from working for a religious mission or VSA. We were told that to extend the provision to other not-for-profit organisations would create inconsistencies that would be beyond the scope of the bill to deal with, but I hope the Government will look at how to address the anomaly as soon as is practicable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EOn a rather more significant issue, a number of submitters raised the same matter that I talked about in my first reading speech on this bill: the vexed question of the impact of the dollar-for-dollar deduction against New Zealand superannuation payments imposed in regard to private contributions made to Government-administered overseas pension schemes. The matter has come before the Social Services Committee over and over again in the 10 years that I have been a member of Parliament. People are deeply upset by the fundamental inequity of missing out on the benefits of private pension funds in other countries\u2014such as the United Kingdom, Canada, and others\u2014that they contributed to, often for a major part of their working lives. Although it is true that this issue is outside the scope of this bill, heartfelt opposition to the direct deduction policy of section 70 of the Social Security Act 1964 will not go away in a hurry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003EI am aware that, when in Opposition, some National members spoke encouragingly to superannuitants in that situation about changes that they might make should they be part of a Government. I urge National to have the strength and foresight to grasp this admittedly thorny issue and make a determined effort to deal with it in a fair and equitable way, rather than leaving it to one side as being too difficult or problematic, as has happened up until now. It is good to see one group of superannuitants and people on the veterans pension being treated with more fairness by the bill before us today, but I am very sure that a section 70 problem will linger until and unless a Government of whatever hue is willing to address this underpinning injustice that impacts on so many of our citizens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u00229c7f2a952256417a8968d93e5c6ba82b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c7f2a952256417a8968d93e5c6ba82b\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to take a short call on the Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill. I acknowledge the work the former Government did in preparing this bill so that it could be in the House today. The bill amends the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001 and the War Pensions Act 1954 to make it easier for older New Zealanders to travel or live overseas. It updates the payment overseas policy that has been in place since 1990. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EWe live in a mobile world. New Zealanders are living longer and in generally better health. With over half a million predominantly younger New Zealanders living overseas, and with air travel being so affordable, it is only understandable and expected that older New Zealanders will want to travel to visit family and relatives, or to participate in tourist activities. This Government is committed to ensuring that older New Zealanders, whatever country they live in, are able to live in dignity and have the freedom to move around. Older New Zealanders have contributed to our country and they have invested in this country. We need to make it easier for older New Zealanders to travel and move between countries. This bill does exactly that. Instead of the current flat rate of payment, older New Zealanders will be able to receive up to 100 percent, depending on the number of years they have resided in New Zealand. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u002280e3e98119fa4f9e88ac5218ea45683c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280e3e98119fa4f9e88ac5218ea45683c\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to stand and speak in support of the Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill. In doing so, I acknowledge the previous Labour Government, which put this bill on the Order Paper, and I acknowledge that the Government is moving forward with this bill. That is a very good thing. I note that I would have been delighted to see this bill progress in the first 100 days of action, rather than some other bills\u2014for example, the bill pertaining to the cutting of KiwiSaver and those sorts of things. Nevertheless it is before the House now, and that is really good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EWe know that this bill will work in the interest of superannuitants\u2014and veterans, whom I will talk about later\u2014who have contributed all their working life to New Zealand, and then in their retirement years want to take advantage of those years and travel. Under the old scheme, they were disadvantaged and, in fact, penalised for taking up that opportunity. This bill is very good for supporting superannuitants and enabling them\u2014certainly not in their twilight years; in what some would call a very exciting time of their life\u2014to be in the position, having worked, to travel, to take advantage of the savings they may have been able to make, and to have other opportunities. I think that security in receiving and being able to receive superannuation at that time will make a tremendous difference to the quality of their life, and, indeed, provide for them exactly what they are entitled to, and that is New Zealand superannuation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThe bill is also important\u2014and the Hon Annette King and the Hon Ruth Dyson spoke on this matter\u2014in terms of our veterans, who have given so much in service to this country. It has been acknowledged that they may not be 65 years old; they may be at a stage of their lives where a whole lot of opportunities open up overseas. It is great that they are able to receive their pension\u2014indeed, it is vital that they do\u2014when they are in a position to take advantage of the opportunities to travel or to work overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI am very pleased to stand in support of this bill. I think it will have wide-ranging support, and so it should. I cannot go past mentioning that, along with this bill, we see advantages for superannuitants in terms of the travel policy that was introduced under Labour. I hope that that policy is available to all New Zealanders. It perhaps does not enhance the ability to travel overseas, but it enhances the ability to travel within communities and within cities, which is absolutely vital to the quality of life of superannuitants in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI have tremendous pride in commending this bill to the House. I also cannot go past talking about superannuation and the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. Part of making superannuation available to superannuitants when they travel is ensuring that we have a superannuation fund. The deferral of payments to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund in the last Budget is of great concern to me. On one hand, we are saying it is absolutely essential\u2014and we all agree with this\u2014that superannuation is available, is extended, and is another investment in our hard-working superannuitants and veterans who have contributed so much. We are saying that we are enhancing their payments, yet we are deferring the payments into the Superannuation Fund, which will jeopardise the ability to provide that superannuation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221061bffa961f4587bffce7ff0b0327e0\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Ridiculous!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022640f64e0ce564df595e94e5863424f8e\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: It is, indeed, ridiculous. The whole fund is not at risk, but certainly the ability to continue providing superannuation at those levels for superannuitants and veterans travelling will be much harder. We know that that was a very silly move of the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EWe see that New Zealanders are worried and concerned about the security of their pensions, and we see that this legislation will put more pressure on that security. It gives even more reason why the Government should accept that it made a mistake. There is nothing wrong with admitting that it made a mistake. Indeed, there are so many instances\u2014whether it is about the adult and community education funding cuts, whether it is about the cuts to young people with disabilities; there is a myriad of things\u2014where we see that if the Government fronted up and said that it got something wrong and asked how it could fix it, then we would be more than willing to work with the Government on it. I urge the Government in supporting and putting forward this bill\u2014it was not in the 100 days of action, but it is, none the less, happening now\u2014to look at the funding for superannuation. I urge the Government to look at those payments to the Superannuation Fund and say that it did not get it right, so it should look at it. It should not defer those payments; it should keep the Superannuation Fund healthy so that it can provide for all of its commitments for our superannuitants and our veterans, not just now, but for decades and for generations to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI could not take a call on this bill without mentioning this matter and urging the Government in this respect. A number of members opposite look quite interested in what I am saying and look quite positive. I ask my colleague the Hon Annette King whether she thinks that. I acknowledge that they are, and I think I see some heads nodding. There have been some very valid and very constructive arguments from this side of the House; there always are. I think the member is right that very careful consideration is being given. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EIn summary, I say again that Labour is right behind the bill\u2014in fact, we were at the forefront of it\u2014and we support it. We would love the Government to put an amendment up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218310d5f662a47c69bfcd4f43c57f850\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: You had 9 years to do this\u20149 years!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022720353d0d40a4544a9e7ed54a98fdcdf\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: It doesn\u2019t matter how long we had; we did it. You had 9 years to do it when you were in Government last time, but you didn\u2019t do it! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cfde9cd22f6443e9ad22f4cce6fb798\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly. To ensure that this happens and this security is provided for superannuitants and veterans, now and for decades and generations to come, I urge the Government to take another look at the Superannuation Fund and to reinstate those payments, because then we have security for people in retirement for the future. I think that is very important. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee63dceff7a14c35bb3f03d6221dd1ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee63dceff7a14c35bb3f03d6221dd1ed\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of the Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill. There are a number of reasons why I do so. One that has been stated is that we have become a nation in an international world, not a parochial island nation at the bottom of the South Pacific. New Zealand now has people with family members right across the world. In fact, the Deputy Speaker, I know, and I both currently have family overseas. Although both he and I are a long way\u2014many, many years\u2014away from being eligible for superannuation, the time may come where we may want to be part of Government superannuation payments and visit our family overseas, and we should be able to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EAs I understand it, the bill fixes up a number of issues in regard to that. Three main issues are probably worth mentioning here. The current flat rate of a 50 percent payment provides insufficient income for people to function sensibly or have a reasonable standard of living if they are visiting family overseas for a prolonged period of time. Other people travel from country to country because they have more than one family member and those family members are in different places. The current rules restrict them to being able to receive that 50 percent payment only if they have a place of residence in one nation. Obviously, that is very restrictive to some people, and they have to keep returning to a certain destination to be eligible for that. This bill fixes up that problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EI know a constituent of mine who has family overseas. She herself comes from a very humble background, but her family have travelled overseas and prospered. They are happy for mum to come and live with them for prolonged periods. One family member is in the United States and the other is in the UK. Members can clearly see how this legislation would have an impact on her, and how the proposed amendments will help her in that regard. Payments overseas are presently linked to residence overseas, but this bill fixes that. Those are two things that I personally know of that this bill will help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EI thank the officials and those who were involved in the process of getting the bill to this point. It is good when we have a Parliament that is as united as this one appears to be on this particular legislation, and I know that a lot of senior citizens out there at the moment are very pleased to see this path that the House is going down today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThe third issue of concern is that the rules currently restrict the ability of an older person to be on the go all the time. Some people go overseas, and they get into a permanent state of travel, as it were; they travel from country to country. A member mentioned the late taking-up of travel by yacht\u2014childhood dreams being realised in people\u2019s 60s and 70s. Of course, such people do not have any permanent place of residence. They are of no fixed abode, as it were. They are restricted by the current rules, but this legislation will allow them to have access to superannuation payments, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003ENational supports the bill; we think it is a good idea. I look forward to its passage through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022 data-id=\u002290de8489dfba4e219f1b27ee65637032\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290de8489dfba4e219f1b27ee65637032\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E I will take a short call; there are some points I want to make. This Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill was tabled by a Labour Government, and it was good to hear the Hon Ruth Dyson speaking earlier. This bill will give some certainty, and it is interesting that we are using urgency to pass it through all its stages. That is a really good use of urgency, because it will give some certainty to a lot of elderly New Zealanders. I congratulate Paula Bennett, the sole member of the executive here in the Chamber. I think it would have been good if she had led the debate, but John Carter did a very good job as the Minister for Senior Citizens. He got up quite enthusiastically.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EThis bill will give a lot of certainty to some people, mainly to those who draw superannuation but also to veterans. Of course, many other New Zealanders may not have the same certainty. What will happen to New Zealand superannuation? I heard a rumour this morning that in the long term the Government\u2014if it ever gets re-elected; I do not suppose it will be, so we should not worry about it\u2014will raise the age of superannuation to 67, or even 68. If I were a young person in my 50s, I would be really worried because that could happen. I think that people need to be aware that today we are giving certainty to one group, but we are not giving complete certainty. What will happen to New Zealand superannuation in the future? That is the real question that will be bothering people who have their ears close to their transistor radio, or, as John Banks used to say, to their crystal set. They will be wondering what is happening, long term, to their superannuation. We have seen National not support the Cullen fund, and that must be a warning sign.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bdca3d942214a33b76b0657f4e63b7a\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: No vision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c2db5a609f6486d808085c44ddc706b\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely no vision! If National does not support the Cullen fund and money is not going into it, what will happen to those people relative to others? Of course, relative to others, for those on superannuation, whether they get it in one of the 22 Pacific Island countries or in New Zealand, things will not be too rosy in the future. When Ruth Dyson tabled this bill, there was not the uncertainty there is now. What will happen for those people? Yes, it will be great for those who want to live in a Pacific Island country in their retirement. In my electorate, Manurewa, we have a large Pacific Island community, and they will welcome this bill being passed because it will give them choices. It will give them the opportunity to go back home to one of the Islands, if they want, and enjoy their retirement there. I imagine that that is probably true of people who live in colder parts of New Zealand rather than in the warmer parts that I represent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EBut in the end, people ought to be very, very suspicious of what will happen with the superannuation scheme in total. I think people will get worried about that when they start to get mixed messages from the Government. John Key said that if anything happened to the scheme, he would resign. Bill English might like that. He might think that is quite a good idea. Maybe that is why they have differing opinions on it; I do not know. In the end, I think this bill will put current superannuation entitlements into an area that people will not be sure about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EI am very pleased that Parliament is joining together to pass this bill. It is a small step, but it is a very good use of urgency to get the bill through all stages today. I think that is something people will welcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f7aee70a091642bbaace8dd5e9df99bd\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224fa97ed0c2a245128ac84630bf8622cf\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6de0254a302457d91d067bd5212f3bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6de0254a302457d91d067bd5212f3bc\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill has only two parts to it, so it is a pretty simple, straightforward sort of bill. The first part deals with amendments to New Zealand superannuation and the second part deals with the veterans pension. Part 1 deals with the substance of the changes that have been made to New Zealand superannuation. It sets out the new formula, and it sets out the new conditions that relate to superannuation and the ability for New Zealanders to choose to go and live in another country and take their superannuation with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe bill has received a lot of support. Although submissions were made for further amendments to this part, it was not possible for the Social Services Committee to make those changes. But I tell the Minister that I was pleased with the work that her department did, in providing to us very logical reasons why we could not alter this bill at this stage, but officials set out that there was the ability, either under the Income Tax Act or in other work that could be done by her department, to address some of those issues raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EMany people made submissions on this part of the bill that had nothing to do with the bill, so we did not hear their submissions. But some did manage to slip in their desire for a change to be made to section 70 of the Social Security Act 1964, which relates, as the Minister knows, to the direct deduction of an overseas pension. I know that that is not part of the bill, but I put on the table that it was a serious issue raised. I think it would be good if we could have a response about whether the Government is considering addressing this issue, which has been seen by many as unfinished business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe first changes that were made to enable people to take a pension overseas were made by the fourth Labour Government in April 1990, and that is when the 50 percent formula was first set up. The 50 percent formula has meant that people did not have enough of their pension to be able to live in another country. We are changing that now to enable people to be able to live, when they go overseas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI think that the changes that have been made in this bill are fair. I listened to Sir Roger Douglas in his contribution, and I think that he probably has the wrong end of the stick. This legislation was not proposed to be put in place either by a Labour Government or by a National Government to give some advantage to Pacific people who come here to work so they can get a better pension. It has been a genuine attempt to try to improve the amount of money, based on a fair formula, for people to be able to take that money and go to another country. The formula is one that I think a lot of work has gone into. I know, as part of the previous Government, that we looked very hard at how we could have a fair formula that we could use in this legislation. As it works out, I believe that what we have come up with in the select committee, which the Minister and the National Government have agreed to, enables fairness to take place between New Zealanders who have worked for 40 years and paid taxes all that time and those who have been here for a lesser time, in terms of that formula. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EIn terms of issues raised, I wonder whether the Minister could give an indication as to whether she intends to look at some of the issues around the non-qualifying spouse. I will talk later about the veterans pension when that comes up; issues were raised about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EOverall, we totally support this legislation. Very few changes were made at the select committee. I believe that the changes made in this part of the legislation have enhanced it, and made it better, and the Labour Opposition totally supports it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 77 in the name of the Hon Paula Bennett to Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c12031af77146078a00fff30fcf955b\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to War Pensions Act 1954\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5948134c8184281b5fd88a8967e725e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5948134c8184281b5fd88a8967e725e\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As I said, this part deals with amendments to the War Pensions Act 1954. This was an area where the members of the Social Services Committee probably wished that we could make some changes to the bill, but that was not possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe change that was asked for by the RSA related to the fact that New Zealand superannuation and the veterans pension are linked in terms of the portability provision that we are making. The argument that the RSA put to us is that people are entitled to receive superannuation at a certain age\u201465 years in New Zealand\u2014and people receive a veterans pension based on a disability that relates to an injury that the recipients had sustained while in the service of their country. People may be eligible for a veterans pension before the age of 65 years. They may be eligible for it at age 45, for example. The RSA argued to us that people on veterans pensions should be able to take their veterans pension to another country where they wished to live, because they were entitled to it by virtue of the criteria that enabled them to have it. It asked why portability had to be linked to an entitlement to New Zealand superannuation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe RSA made a very strong case. I am aware that a review of the War Pensions Act is taking place. It was started under Rick Barker, the Law Commission has done a lot of work on it, and I suspect, hopefully, that there will be a rewrite of and a relook at what is provided to our war veterans. I ask the Minister whether she and the Government are considering making changes for war veterans, going forward, that would line up with what we heard at the select committee with regard to that submission from the RSA. I think it was a fair request, and war veterans do feel quite aggrieved by the fact that they are linked to New Zealand superannuation, when their pension is nothing to do with age but all to do with having a disability. This part of the bill also puts in place the same conditions for war veterans as for New Zealand superannuitants, so the portability arrangements are the same for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThat is the only question that I have. I tell the Minister that the RSA raised a serious issue with us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6d41fa42c394fe6bba5085cb4dbe52a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6d41fa42c394fe6bba5085cb4dbe52a\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I take the opportunity to clarify a couple of points that I think need to be clarified in this debate, and certainly in this Committee stage. First of all, the Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pensions Overseas) Amendment Bill does not change the position for our Pacific peoples. That position was set in 1999; this bill does not make changes to it. The honourable member who spoke earlier, in the second reading debate, might like to take note of that: there are no major changes for the Pacific. They have had this position before; they will continue to have it under this bill. There are no drastic changes. I actually think we should acknowledge and note the contribution that Pacific people make to New Zealand when they come here to work, whether for 10 years, 20 years, or longer, which we see in the children of the Pacific peoples who moved here. They should have that recognition. I know that view is shared by most members in this Chamber. I am not here to make points on that, or on anything else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EI would like to correct Mr Hawkins on something he said earlier. He said Labour introduced this bill. The first reading of this bill was in March 2009, so it was introduced to the House by the National Government. There had been a long time to do something\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a946e0abbad42fb92f27c3ca0da2de4\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It was tabled in September 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245c84eb5bfe54458a794549f838c220a\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: But the first reading was certainly under this Government. We picked it up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe amendments we are making to this bill in the Committee stage are technical. There are words that need to be corrected and that we think need a bit more clarification. This Government did not have to think too hard about acknowledging the ability of those who are older, our \u201Csupers\u201D, to take their superannuation overseas. Giving people choice\u2014recognising the freedom of where they spend their money and what they do with their own money\u2014struck a chord with us, and was certainly in line with our thinking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EI make clear, though, that some of the reciprocal agreements we have with Australia that have come up in this bill are clear: in any country no one wants someone who is not a local of that country to be better off than the locals. When New Zealanders move to Australia, for example, even if they are in their senior years, they should not be financially better off as far as the scheme that they are getting under a reciprocal agreement goes. It is as simple as that. We certainly have the same arrangements in New Zealand. That is what is causing problems, if you like, in section 74J, as substituted in clause 14, and it is causing a very staunch debate for some. That section is relevant to this Committee stage, because the provision directly affects the amount of money that people are getting in their hands. This is what the bill is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EI wanted only to clarify a few things. I am certainly looking forward to the third reading. We do not want to hold up the passage of this bill through the House. It is going through under urgency, and it has the support of the Committee. I am happy to address any other concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd0f452468ae42a085792b5f21de316f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd0f452468ae42a085792b5f21de316f\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E The RSA has been concerned for a long time that people were not able to receive their payments overseas. That was based on the injuries that occurred to them. It is very important, therefore, that they should not have to wait, if they were injured, and qualified when they were 45 years old, until they turn 65 to be able to draw their entitlement. I also, again, mention that all the preparatory work done on this Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill was done by Ruth Dyson when she was Minister. I think that is very important. I also say how pleased I am that this bill is going through under urgency. What disappoints me is that only one Minister has risen during the Committee stage thus far and had anything to say about the bill. I would have thought that the Minister of Defence, the Minister of Veterans\u2019 Affairs, and the Minister for Senior Citizens would have risen in the Committee stage and had something to say. But as there is only one Minister here, that is not likely to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 77 in the name of the Hon Paula Bennett to Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022097e31807f55466d8c269c5287f9e501\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000347\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000348\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 77 in the name of the Hon Paula Bennett to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000349\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000350\u0022\u003EClause 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000351\u0022\u003EThe Committee divided the bill into the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Amendment Bill and the War Pensions Amendment Bill, pursuant to Supplementary Order Paper 76.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000352\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000353\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002295376a1b29a04bfebd2e616406608f5b\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002295376a1b29a04bfebd2e616406608f5b\u0022\u003EWar Pensions Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a4ccc280665d4e5497c16e03f55796a9\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022937e1f540594452ca726d08d56bd4870\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022937e1f540594452ca726d08d56bd4870\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Amendment Bill and the War Pensions Amendment Bill be now read a third time. It is with pleasure that I see the third reading of these bills going through. The bills fulfil the National Government\u2019s commitment to ensure that older New Zealanders have more freedom to decide where they live or travel in their retirement. The bills will achieve that aim by making amendments to the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001 and the War Pensions Act 1954. New Zealand superannuation and veterans pensions can be paid overseas, depending on where a superannuitant or veterans pensioner intends to go, for how long, and for what purpose. New Zealand has reciprocal social security agreements with other countries, including Australia, Canada, Greece, the Netherlands, Jersey, Denmark, Ireland, and the UK. Special provisions also allow payments to people heading off to live in most Pacific countries. Outside of those countries, there are payment provisions called \u201Cgeneral portability\u201D. The amendments in the legislation relate solely to the general portability provisions and will not affect New Zealand social security agreements or the provisions for Pacific countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EToday\u2019s retirees are different: they have worked longer and they are more active than ever before. After a lifetime of working and dutifully paying taxes they want more out of their golden years than just sitting in a rocking chair waiting for Coronation Street to start. If they travel, they do not necessarily want to be stuck on a package tour through Europe\u201421 countries in 30 days\u2014in a bus, just to have to get back in time to pick up their pension. Today\u2019s retirees are not content to be regaled with the adventure tales of their grandchildren. They want their own stories; they want their own OE. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe general portability provisions have prevented many superannuitants and veterans pensioners from moving to the country of their choice or travelling for a long time overseas. The bills will change that situation. The key change is a new payment rate. Instead of receiving the current flat 50 percent of the domestic rate, a superannuitant or veterans pensioner will be able to receive up to the full rate of a New Zealand superannuation or veterans pension, depending on how long the person has resided in New Zealand between the ages of 20 and 65 years. I must agree with the Hon Annette King, who said how much discussion went into what the formula should be. Much work has been done on that and it has been carefully thought out in the name of fairness. There continues to be no entitlement to any additional payment for a non-qualified spouse or partner, or for a living alone payment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe second change is that the legislation will free up the rules restricting the ability for those on superannuation and the veterans pension to move around once they go overseas. The legislation will allow for the payment of New Zealand superannuation and the veterans pension to those who wish to reside in more than one country with which New Zealand has no social security agreement, whether they remain in the country they first move to or whether they move to other countries once they are overseas. It also allows for the payment of superannuation and the veterans pension to those on superannuation and the veterans pension who leave New Zealand to travel to or in another country, or between any two countries, for more than 26 weeks but who do not reside, as such, outside New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I reiterate that this legislation is part of this Government\u2019s commitment to ensuring that older New Zealanders are free to decide where they wish to reside or to travel in their retirement. This legislation also acknowledges that New Zealand is part of a global community and that our older people are most certainly a part of that global community. It also ensures that our retirees come from many countries and regions of the world and have the freedom to travel around. I commend this legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u002224e496d772e7435598feab794ca7a1ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224e496d772e7435598feab794ca7a1ed\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This legislation fulfils Parliament\u2019s commitment to older New Zealanders. It was supported by all parties, with the exception of the ACT Party, during the Committee stage. However, I note that ACT did not vote against the legislation at the Committee stage, nor did it propose any amendments. Although I respect the arguments that Sir Roger Douglas put forward and appreciate the charts that he showed members\u2014which, unfortunately, other people probably could not see\u2014I think that he has the wrong end of the stick in relation to this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI do not believe that it was the previous Labour Government\u2019s intention when we tabled the original bill, the Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill, in the House in September 2008, nor the intention of the current National Government, to set up a system that would advantage Pacific Island people in coming into New Zealand to get a job so that they could get a better pension. I think that argument does not take account of a number of issues, the main one being that in order for Pacific Island people to come into New Zealand to get a job, they have to go through the immigration hoops to begin with. The idea that the door is open for people from the Pacific to walk in and work here in order to get a pension to take back to the Islands misses out quite a few important steps, mainly that anybody who comes into this country must meet the immigration criteria that are in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThis legislation was put into the House and it is supported by all parties except for ACT, because we wanted to make things easier and better for our older New Zealanders. They will be able to take their pension with them if they go to live in another country of their choice. People have been able, since April 1999, to take 50 percent of their pension with them. Unfortunately, that amount is not enough for people to live on in most other countries. It was a real restriction on people who felt that they had paid their taxes all their lives and had made their contribution. They had worked hard, and they had money that they thought was their entitlement. Superannuation is not a benefit; it is a pension in their eyes. They felt that they could not take a sufficient proportion of it with them to perhaps enable them to reside in another country where their family is now living. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThis legislation uses a formula, which I think is a fair one, to take account of the years that people have worked and resided in this country. I think that it is a fair formula, which now enables people to do some of the things that Minister Paula Bennett outlined in her speech. She was correct when she said that for New Zealanders today, the age of 65 is really like what age 55 was like previously. People are much more active today. They want to travel, and many of them have children who now live overseas. That is part of the global economy in which we live. Our children get jobs in other countries, they marry people from other countries, and they take up residence in other countries. One of the things that people want to do when they get older is to share time with their families and to live near them. This legislation will enable that to happen for many New Zealanders, and I think that change is to be welcomed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EAt the Social Services Committee people generally supported the Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill. They did raise a number of issues that were outside the scope of the bill, but also they raised some issues that were within the scope of the bill but on which we could not make the changes that they wanted without making the system unfair for other New Zealanders. One such issue that comes to mind is that of the non-qualifying spouse. The argument that was put to us related to the situation that occurs when a couple heads off overseas and the man is already receiving New Zealand superannuation, and even if the woman is only a few months off turning 65 years, she cannot apply for superannuation while she is overseas. We were asked why the non-qualifying spouse should not be able to apply for superannuation from the country he or she is now residing in, and in which country the couple say they will now permanently reside. I know that Chester Borrows would agree that on the surface that sounded like a very fair thing to provide for, until the officials started to unpick the whole scenario. If an advantage was given to one non-qualifying spouse, a whole lot of disadvantage would then open up for a whole lot of other people. We would have got ourselves into a right old pickle if we had agreed with one group that had made a submission about that issue and had supported such a change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe Minister did not answer some questions that were asked during the Committee stage. They were serious questions on the issue of section 70 of the Social Security Act 1964. People submitted on that section. We did not hear their submissions. Submitters did not care about the fact that they were not meant to submit on that section of the Act. They wanted their submissions to be heard, and John Carter said during his speech that the issue they raised was something that he had heard about for many, many years. People want to be able to have their overseas pension that they earned in another country as part of their income here in New Zealand. As I said in the Committee stage, we believed that was unfinished business in terms of the changes that need to be made. I asked the Minister whether the Government was considering making such a change or doing work on such a change, but the Minister did not address that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI also asked the Minister during the Committee stage whether the Government was considering making the changes proposed by the Royal New Zealand Returned and Services\u2019 Association. The association made a very compelling submission to the select committee around the veterans\u2019 entitlement and the portability issue. The association did not believe that portability should be linked to age; it said that it ought to be linked to the fact that people were receiving the veterans pension because of their disability. I gather that the association has felt strongly about this issue for a long time. I did ask the Minister whether the Government was considering making such a change, and, in terms of the review, was looking at such a change being made. We could not make it; it was not possible for us to do that. We were given good reasons as to why we could not include that change in this legislation, but I did ask the Minister whether the Government was considering making it. I think the association would really like to know whether this matter is on the Government\u2019s work agenda, because I have no doubt that the issue will not go away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThere was little debate on this legislation. There did not need to be a lot of debate on it, because there was agreement across the House. There was little dispute and little rancour. There was some grandstanding about whose legislation it was, but let us put the issues on the table. The Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill was tabled by Ruth Dyson in September 2008. One speaker from the Government side said the previous Labour Government waited too long before doing anything about it. I have a very clear memory that from around 22 September onwards we were rather busy. An election was held in, I think, early November. There were not many people in this House who were busy debating anything, but former Ministers had done work in the area of updating and improving portability over a long period of time. We had been doing that going right back to 1990 and, as the Minister said, going back to the changes made in 1999 around the entitlements for people who are living in the Pacific. It was ongoing work and, as I have pointed out, there is still more to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d97290ed2be0445e8b8b59a2f4cf98f8\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223bdfba564cba4f0db4830a3456b4fbce\u0022\u003ETabling of Documents\u2014Description of Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00220ed2aded8cf24c8a9aa4108125576a23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ed2aded8cf24c8a9aa4108125576a23\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for Climate Change Issues):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I raise a specific issue in respect of the leave that was sought to table documents in question time yesterday. Yesterday the House granted leave for the tabling of a statement by the Australian Minister for Climate Change and Water, Senator Penny Wong, containing a summary of the changes put forward by the Liberal Opposition and a critique by the Labor Government of the changes. My issue is that the document that was tabled was no more than a very short Sky News web page that did not contain any of the information that the House granted leave to be tabled. I seek your advice on, firstly, the status of a document that has been tabled and put on the record of the House, but which is not what the House granted leave to table; and, secondly, the actions that are available to the House in respect of the member who was given leave to table the document that was not tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002222c7d12dd86a4d74977fbad1ebc663ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222c7d12dd86a4d74977fbad1ebc663ff\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the honourable member for raising a serious point of order. I think the best thing I can do is to undertake to investigate the matter. Obviously, I do not know the facts of the matter without investigating it. I will investigate the matter and come back to the honourable member, and from that point on he can decide whether he is satisfied with what I find from the investigation. I accept that it is a serious and important matter that where the House gives leave for the tabling of a specific document, that document is what is tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022f175a906ec6a4967b899f1577ba6e866\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f175a906ec6a4967b899f1577ba6e866\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Just on that point, could I ask that in your ruling you also consider the consequences in situations where documents are tabled as official documents by Ministers. There have been occasions\u2014I can provide you with examples for your deliberation\u2014where the document was a blank sheet of paper, for instance, with simply bullet points on it and no reference to a department or a Government agency, and where it could be seen as, perhaps, speech notes or whatever. What is the status of such a document if it is characterised as an official document? I ask that you make that issue a part of your deliberations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022dfdd30f34cf64f6cadd9ba33ea833565\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dfdd30f34cf64f6cadd9ba33ea833565\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, in order to investigate a particular issue I will need to be given a particular case to investigate. If the honourable member wishes to provide an example of where that has happened, I am happy to investigate that situation, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223f82efee7e6d4710a6632cf642ee385f\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c49ca98a64314084b63be3019d524528\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022983d960206d54bffbde0981d05c193ad\u0022\u003ERecession\u2014Government Actions for Economic Growth\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u00228b685c3f2aa04546adc3aef807da9339\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b685c3f2aa04546adc3aef807da9339\u0022\u003EHon CRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What have been the Government\u2019s priorities to ensure New Zealand comes out of recession and achieves sustainable medium to long term growth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022856d0641ee91452b9ea348c7aed024ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022856d0641ee91452b9ea348c7aed024ee\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Our priorities through the recession have been to keep the economy ticking over and to protect the vulnerable. At the same time we have set out a long-term plan to lift New Zealand\u2019s economic performance. In the last year we have delivered on the Government\u2019s election commitments, removed the sharpest edges of recession, clawed back rising debt to manageable levels, and stabilised New Zealand\u2019s credit rating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f36fd29197ee4a9db1aecefd58299e23\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: What specific measures has the Government taken to achieve its priorities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc38e5d8ba404aa4ba391e2d7bd387e8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There has been a wide range of measures, but I will reflect on just some of them: securing the stability of the financial system; supporting thousands of jobs through a number of initiatives, including Youth Opportunities, the Job Support Scheme, and ReStart; delivering a billion dollars of tax cuts; a large insulation fund; a programme to invest $7.5 billion in infrastructure; and an extensive programme of deregulation of business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022145bdc85ab1e483d9b773a06fc586f68\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: How can that Minister claim that the New Zealand economy will be better off, when the Government\u2019s response to the recession of cancelling superannuation fund contributions and providing billions of dollars of subsidies to polluters has been to steal from our children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf30eb3dcd8647a7ae29185df3082ea2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The only plans I have heard for stealing from our children are extravagant promises from Labour to borrow $6 billion more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fc0f75837c34fe9a0d9c914721b7a22\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: What fiscal issues did the Government inherit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022679335320e654f648a9ae0c7ce890bf0\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The first and most obvious one for the Government was when we discovered that over the next 3 years there would be a billion-dollar shortfall in accident compensation funding, and that the Government would have to pay a billion dollars into the non-earners account to fill the gap. We also inherited Government spending growing at 50 percent over the past 5 years, which means that we now have to borrow $250 million a week to fill the gap.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022549981c8b8ed47b3aad13950cab2f13e\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: How does that compare with the zero net debt and gross debt at half the level that his Government inherited from Labour\u2014compared with what we inherited from the previous National Government\u2014and with the $30 billion - odd of funds that our children will have to find for superannuation, added to the $30 billion to fund the climate liabilities that Gerry Brownlee wants to give to polluters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d30b79f5aaa410fa0263b6ea91a6e7c\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member may not realise that if we borrow more money now, that means our children will have to repay it, and if we borrow money to put into the Superannuation Fund, our children will have to repay the borrowings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022413195149c4f4c3a821d23770c18390a\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Dr Susan St John that the intended in-work tax credit reduces poverty selectively and punishes families in a recession, and how will those children, who have been consigned to live in severe and significant hardship, be supported out of poverty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edc0cefb111a4ad188b681eb41357a8a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that Dr Susan St John has a strong view about the in-work tax credit, and that it has been a matter of some litigation between the Crown and the Child Poverty Action Group. We are following with interest both the debate about its effectiveness and the legal proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf867ca7bbb74abcb843b424ce4975df\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to respond to the outcomes from the hui held 2 weeks ago at Manurewa Marae to end child poverty in Aotearoa?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210b43a2c9e3b4833af5523ceda79b864\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Our first step has been that in the midst of a sharp recession the Government has maintained all entitlements in order to ensure that people have a sense of security and to ensure that our most vulnerable are not those who are punished first by an economic shock.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e8c7dd578d184a488091089f13a263f0\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation\u2014Opening Scheme to Competition\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00229bb836f9be1b48ec94b679079831603b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229bb836f9be1b48ec94b679079831603b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: When he is reported in the New Zealand Herald as saying that National had already looked into introducing competition in the ACC work account in some detail, what work has the Government actually done in considering who would benefit from it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00223ad290704feb488e801fa24dcf251db1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ad290704feb488e801fa24dcf251db1\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E National in Opposition undertook some work to explore the opportunities for choice in the work account. That work was not completed, which is why our policy said we would investigate introducing competition to the work account. In Government, as the Minister for ACC has said, we have not undertaken any serious analysis, because of the shambles we inherited in respect of accident compensation as a result of the hopeless management of it by the previous Labour Government. I can confirm that in recent days, though, Treasury officials have been asked for an initial pr\u00E9cis of the advantages and disadvantages of contestability in respect of the work account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229226cb4f8ff640dcbd69f3ed6a2683a3\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he support privatisation of the work account, when all of the evidence is that the big winner would be the big Australian insurance companies, and the losers would be ordinary New Zealanders, who would pay more and get less?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228edaa84c1ef8475eb1c6679afbe8c95c\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not support privatisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257ad4e0762514a69855c29e2e0a224ec\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294a04e6a6e184a2da7f97c01257fbb74\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am intrigued by the idea of more competition in the work account. I can assure the Leader of the Opposition that the summary he has given was not the experience when competition was introduced in 1998.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214bbadfe790c486d8d52ddbfe749a490\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, does he not accept the arguments made by PricewaterhouseCoopers and the Employers and Manufacturers Association that the experience was loss leading by companies to get market share, followed by a big increase in levies; and does he not accept that where the system he is recommending already runs, in Australia, employers are paying twice the level of levies that employers in this country are?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d62de1f26ace40ac825257219287dd7c\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: For a start off, it may have eluded the member but there has been a massive increase in accident compensation levies in recent times, when there has been no competition. Secondly, it would be worth doing some serious work on this issue, but I can tell the member that if he chose to read the initial report I have had from Treasury, which was delivered to my office at lunchtime, he would see in it an argument that there may be some advantages to competition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297d0b4571bce49c5a784654226482501\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister has invited me to read a paper. I therefore invite him to table it so that I can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252be279d571240f595404690361c068a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I take it that it is an official\u2014[Interruption] A point of order was raised and it will be dealt with in silence, I say to both front benches. I take it that it is an official document from Treasury; it therefore must be tabled\u2014that is, if the Prime Minister was quoting from it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2279c62ed48437eb161331adea1ebe0\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am more than happy to have it tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226beda144c1224a45b57a243154cc1ce8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is fine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dccd8deec5448d8adb8effd85ec255d\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Will workers and employers be paying higher levies, or facing cutbacks in accident compensation coverage, or both, to fund the hundreds of millions of dollars of profits that the Australian insurance companies will be making if he introduces the scheme that National introduced last time? Maybe Bill English will give him the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa005c58743e40878f22f0cbd45405b7\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am not going to get into hypothetical situations; let us talk about the real world. In the real world New Zealanders are being asked to pay much higher levies because of the mismanagement of the previous Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e47d772ad8e44b4c81e40249117580cc\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Will the form of privatisation that the Prime Minister is advocating benefit New Zealand and Kiwi workers, when the in-depth report by PricewaterhouseCoopers estimates that it will raise administrative costs by 10 percent, which will mean a lower proportion of levies actually going into coverage, into prevention, and into rehabilitation; how could that possibly help?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc994032c890402aa661898239a81fe3\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I think some serious work in this area is required, not making up things as we go along.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3910756677d46ce86977e76c621f3da\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the PricewaterhouseCoopers inquiry\u2014some 477 pages, I think\u2014which will give the Prime Minister the answers I have talked about that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d3a0d6521ae43fe8547295d8c1ac0e1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f8b92f47-d078-4e6a-b4c6-136913bda55d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad47dbaea31d4ea4b5ef54bb450c6c31\u0022\u003ESue Bradford\u003C/span\u003E: Has he discussed with the M\u0101ori Party the potential impact of full or partial re-privatisation of the work account on M\u0101ori, especially given that tangata whenua are disproportionately represented among low-paid and vulnerable workers; if so, does he think that their support for the Government\u2019s accident compensation changes will continue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcada4a70dc747cc93765cc4e42a771d\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure whether their support will continue. I guess it will depend on what the final shape of the bill looks like after it has been through a select committee process. In terms of discussions, I have had very, very brief discussions with M\u0101ori Party members at our annual monthly meeting. They indicated some interest in looking at that area, and we supported them in that interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e72abecf3b34ee4a8c6cbc4da033e7c\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree with the statement made by Tariana Turia on Sunday\u2019s Q\u002BA programme that \u201Ccosts in ACC will go up exorbitantly\u201D if the work account is privatised, and has she explained to him why, having taken such a strong stand 3 days ago, she suddenly flip-flopped on that issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6c969332f6b45a0a271c84336171751\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I would agree with her if the work account were privatised, but introducing competition is a vastly different issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de61cd92a61e4cceb58262719444ea42\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Prime Minister reconcile his statement that National has looked at privatising the work account, or \u201Cmaking it available for competition\u201D as he prefers to put it, in some detail, and is now actively considering it, when Nick Smith assured the House a week ago that his stocktake would not include investigating competition in the work account; and why has National\u2019s handling of this issue been such a shambles?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fd204ca56994010aa25d736db55c69f\u0022\u003EHon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Quite clearly, it was National\u2019s policy to look at introducing competition. That is what we campaigned on, and that is what we are proceeding to follow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224c6f079cc2614e579d77f5e10b3e1367\u0022\u003EHealth Care\u2014Policy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u00220caa37a9f1044635877f5972da80a595\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220caa37a9f1044635877f5972da80a595\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he still stand by his policy to deliver better, sooner, and more convenient health care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u00228fbb5a66746949da830dec58643353bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fbb5a66746949da830dec58643353bf\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Despite inheriting a lot of problems, I can say that we have today announced a major shake-up in the administrative side of the public health service. It is estimated that these changes will save up to $700 million over the next 5 years, and will reduce the number of administrative staff by up to 500 over time. All the resources that are freed up will be reinvested into front-line health services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b52b4c1f8cdf4e66be16ef7f14c79d86\u0022\u003EDr Jackie Blue\u003C/span\u003E: What are the major changes to the administrative core of the public health system that he has announced?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc5b6925dcd44367b6ef724c4abfa765\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: The announcement covers a comprehensive range of decisions, flowing from the ministerial review group\u2019s 170 recommendations. We are establishing a National Health Board as a unit within the Ministry of Health. It will provide a stronger, unified, and more focused approach to managing and supervising the funding of our 21 district health boards. The board will unify the planning and delivery of information technology, of the workforce, and of capital, which are currently spread across a myriad of agencies and district health boards, and lift performance in this area. We are also devolving funding of up to $2.5 billion, currently managed by the Ministry of Health, to district health boards where that would be appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea414fbc239e4ea2b5c575109422cd98\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: How much of his projected savings in health will be reversed by the current and projected cost-shifting from the accident compensation scheme to the health service?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219970afa41e7422bbef57b2a190cf98a\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I am unable to give the member a specific answer to that, because on the issue of the cost shift what is important is that we have resources available in the public health service to treat patients. This administrative shake-up is all about how we can stop reinventing the wheel in the 21 district health boards and get greater consolidation of back-office functions, harness the power of bulk purchasing, and put up to $700 million over the next 5 years into patient services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d031ee848f2d494a84e4471d2a956c47\u0022\u003EDr Jackie Blue\u003C/span\u003E: What other plans does he have to move away from 21 district health boards taking 21 different approaches to back-office functions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cad0b06000b04f5aa680448e0a889815\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: We are creating a shared services establishment board to consolidate back-office functions, such as payroll, information technology, human resources, and purchasing. We do not need 21 district health boards to reinvent the wheel on back-office functions such as those. We do not need 21 district health boards to have computer systems that cannot even talk to each other. As I have made very clear to the House, these savings will be significant for the public health service. They are equivalent to delivering 16,000 heart bypasses or building two new city hospitals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebfdbaf665954ba48f11aa0479a38d7f\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Will he guarantee that his health restructuring and two new health agencies will help Mr Jim Chalmers, whose issue of the cuts to his home help services I raised in the House last week, to get his home help services back?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc412ae36c09477db3631d8e0c0b8c71\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: What it is about is freeing up back-office resources for the very purpose of providing improved front-line services. I can tell the member that the chair of Canterbury District Health Board, Mr Alister James, assures me that there will be more funding available for home help services in Christchurch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226823ae54364c4b4ba50ab8ad47d19106\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation\u2014Child Sexual Abuse Victims\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00222ef78494c8ac45bdb6a00946fa608dcd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ef78494c8ac45bdb6a00946fa608dcd\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for ACC: What protocols and procedures, if any, are in place within ACC for children who have been sexually abused?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00227254874b0aa540b2bf78e0a49cf9b67d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227254874b0aa540b2bf78e0a49cf9b67d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E The Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) has protocols and procedures in place to refer cases to the Department of Child, Youth and Family Services. It has a dedicated child specialist in the Sensitive Claims Unit, and the corporation endeavours to ensure that it has access to expert clinicians with the required specialist skills to deal with those who have suffered from child sex abuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e492c48f81494bdb80372c5ea9fc4f9e\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that since July 2009 his instructions to ACC have led to well over 420 sexual abuse cases being held up\u2014an increase of over 500 percent\u2014as ACC waits for the new assessment tool to come into effect, and that 24 counsellors in his own electorate say they will stop doing accident compensation counselling because the changes will actually harm their clients; and how many counsellors around New Zealand will be available to do accident compensation work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282b43831370d49e3a8828ea934600680\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: There are many questions within the member\u2019s supplementary question. I will answer just a couple of those. Firstly, I have given absolutely no instructions to ACC, except to say that this is a very sensitive area in which I have no expectations of savings, and that decisions need to be made based on what is in people\u2019s best clinical interests. Secondly, I met with 18 of those counsellors in my own area at the weekend, and had a very constructive meeting with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274c8863ae14b442b8c12d41004e4fce3\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: If he believes politicians should listen to clinicians when it comes to assessment of sexual abuse claims for accident compensation, as he states, why does he not take his own advice and listen to the New Zealand Psychological Society and the New Zealand Association of Child and Adolescent Psychotherapists who have written to him saying that ACC has misinterpreted the Massey guidelines to justify reduced treatment, and the new assessment tool is clinically unsound and not best clinical practice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2f3511064784bb7ad3c033bf5b494fd\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The first point I make is that the law in this area was passed in 2001 by the members opposite, and that it makes it absolutely plain that for people to be eligible for accident compensation they need to have suffered a mental injury. The second point I will make is that the decisions made by ACC have been led by a group of very skilled clinicians, including psychiatrists and psychologists, and, in my view, the group is making decisions that are in the best interests of those who have suffered abuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206559e60c7ae4cf791c7eb12a9d91c62\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: When he said last week there had been no change to clinical guidelines to date for the counselling of people who had been sexually abused, why did he not tell the public that the new assessment tool, which starts being used next week, is the reason many cases have been deferred and declined, including the case of the two little boys in Taranaki who were injured and sexually abused, and had their counselling stopped by ACC; and can he not see that the veracity of his statements is causing concern and confusion to very vulnerable people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f42ec2e4dda64c44ac24d326dadb2bdb\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of the individual case that the member has raised, the decisions in that case were made by a clinical psychologist. I, as Minister, will not override decisions made by clinicians. As I pointed out earlier in the week, as a consequence of representations from the MP for New Plymouth, counselling is being provided for that child, quite appropriately, through Child, Youth and Family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aaa80429881b4c96ba5c625eb3c65c3f\u0022\u003EYouth Employment\u2014Youth Opportunities Package\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00223c93f29f8def4ab096215c648fd504ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c93f29f8def4ab096215c648fd504ad\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: How is the Government\u2019s Youth Opportunities programme making a difference in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022b122fcc6b27f4ac189a1b32ba0af71d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b122fcc6b27f4ac189a1b32ba0af71d0\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday I visited Te M\u0101hurehure Marae for the national Women\u2019s Refuge conference. I saw firsthand the difference that Community Max is making. When I commented on how nice the food was, I was invited into the kitchen where I met four young people who had prepared the meal. They were part of our Community Max programme, they were excited to have a job, and they were absolutely thrilled with the difference it is making in their lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263da40994c2440ffb9045db9192de276\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: How many opportunities have these programmes created for young New Zealanders, to date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f326ca4309e64d44b0c260c4ef89f0f1\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Over 1,777 Job Ops positions have been created so far, and 1,085 Community Max positions, involving 1,475 New Zealand employers and 227 community groups, and the numbers are growing by the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d9eed5f2acc40578315454864526ec1\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree that more needs to be done to significantly reduce youth unemployment, when since she announced the scheme an additional 3,000 young people are now on the unemployment benefit alone, or is it a case of one step forward, three steps back?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022176688696f884908888b8edd49413593\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I would say two steps forward, because, as members have just heard, we are seeing that over 2,000 more young people would be on the unemployment benefit if it were not for the programmes that this Government has put in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252a4b06a82fb448bbc33520ded767055\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: What further examples can the Minister give of where the Government\u2019s Community Max and Job Ops initiatives are making a difference?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239caac41086b4fa3a30866bbf97fe5ff\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: People are coming up with such great and innovative ideas themselves. Actually, just last week the member Rahui Katene and I were discussing some of these ideas and how we could get them out to further iwi. We have put together a set of examples of Community Max programmes for M\u0101ori, and I certainly offer it to any members of this House who would like to take those examples to the iwi and the community groups in their electorates and share those ideas so that we can get more people on these programmes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220b4cd8257e944a3fa83e62f78d131bd5\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation\u2014Impact on Health Budget\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002291969928419d4092acc50434df2c662a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291969928419d4092acc50434df2c662a\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for ACC: What representations, if any, did he receive from the Minister of Health in regard to any increased costs to the health budget as a result of ACC changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00228e61c3747dc843069305d2ff4566133e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e61c3747dc843069305d2ff4566133e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E The Minister of Health and I have had several meetings and discussions about the implications of the Government\u2019s accident compensation reforms. It is acknowledged that there will be some cost to health from the changes to the scheme in areas such as hearing, self-inflicted injuries, and in respect of disentitling criminals. Generally, the level of support from health for sickness is less generous than that provided from accident compensation for accidents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b4550c938814905a75abe2354d08989\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: How will the current cost-shifting from accident compensation to health improve the return-to-work rates for the 5,019 people who have been added to the health surgery waiting list by the accident compensation scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228364e1e92b0b4ec5b7b2130c4706fe8e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The first point I make is that the accident compensation scheme has provided a higher level of elective surgery this year than it did last year. I also point out that the current Minister of Health has overseen a record increase in the number of New Zealanders who are getting operations under our public health system, on which he should be congratulated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a98088c502346a68f99650ff84d166a\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any examples of poor public policy decisions over health services that have given rise to financial problems for the accident compensation scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7896c7b8c6f46a58da8abde92b6d6b2\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have. A decision in 2004 to provide free physiotherapy went against the advice of officials and the submissions from the New Zealand Society of Physiotherapists. It was estimated to cost $9 million, and actually cost over $100 million per year. The member that was responsible for that decision was Ruth Dyson. I note that David Parker has said it was a mistake; I am looking forward to Ruth Dyson apologising to the levy payers that are now having to pay for her mistake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f0b11943391465a8a25daa16a4fddaf\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: How will the cost-shifting from accident compensation to health help improve health services, when district health boards have had $60 million cut by the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) from their elective surgery budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283e9ed443b7340709a0b1bf3db285016\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I make the point that more people are being funded for elective surgery through the accident compensation scheme this year than last year. What is more, the increase in the number of operations that are being provided by the Minister of Health through our public health service is higher than at any time. It is a huge increase on which he and this Government should be congratulated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281f586560470418398d04965988b120c\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he do nothing when Treasury expressed grave concerns about the massive unfunded cost-shifting from accident compensation to health in his bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f33a759ad62e41c39e382b34bba39884\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Quite the opposite. Costs in accident compensation have been growing at five times the rate of inflation for the last 5 years\u2014five times the rate of inflation. The consistent advice I have had from Treasury is that reform is required if the accident compensation scheme is to be affordable and sustainable for the long haul.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d8b8e88884f14287994e8a696c1cd9b6\u0022\u003EStreet Racing\u2014Deterrents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022 data-id=\u0022009f93a9e07e4ac3ac6ae1c51cc07e13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022009f93a9e07e4ac3ac6ae1c51cc07e13\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014T\u0101maki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What progress has the Government made in tackling illegal street racing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022a771ee7c13504a5f87aae23e5d99013e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a771ee7c13504a5f87aae23e5d99013e\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to report that the House unanimously agreed last night to the passage of the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill. Although legislation alone is never the whole answer, this bill, in conjunction with the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill, which is now divided into three separate bills, will introduce a number of measures to tackle illegal street racing and close loopholes in the existing law. These measures include giving councils powers to prohibit cruising on key roads; increasing police powers for dealing with illegally modified, noisy vehicles; and promoting the greater use of demerit points and vehicle impoundment in order to deter offenders. The new legislation will send a clear message that New Zealanders will not tolerate dangerous and antisocial behaviour on their roads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ffcbfe49a3146528c8d9622499f3a04\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: What other actions has the Government taken to curb this problem?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d6b170eb2c446c2981096771cf26c4c\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: In addition to passing this legislation, my colleague the Hon Judith Collins has worked with the police on ensuring that the most effective operational strategies are used nationwide. Also, the National Land Transport Programme is to provide the New Zealand Police with an extra $121 million over the next 3 years for road policing, and the Government is currently working through the feedback from consultation on the next road safety strategy. I am sure that many New Zealanders who have been intimidated or have had their businesses or home life disrupted by illegal street racers will welcome all of these developments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d490167f4211459e993aa16d9b77a8ed\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation\u2014Opening Scheme to Competition\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002296b75918486345a3aa5c36ce3fb6b021\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296b75918486345a3aa5c36ce3fb6b021\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for ACC: Does he agree with the Employers and Manufacturers Association, which says employers are wary about any move to reintroduce an open competitive market for ACC because the last time there was a private market for ACC it turned into a \u201Cbunfight\u201D between insurers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022f330575c255a46b89c1dc044e14f298b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f330575c255a46b89c1dc044e14f298b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E There is a range of views amongst employers in business. I note, for instance, that Business New Zealand takes a different view and favours competition. The member also selectively quotes the Employers and Manufacturers Association (Northern) statement. It proposes competition in workplace accident treatment and rehabilitation, it criticises unfunded extensions to the scheme by the previous Government, and it supports the reform proposals in the Government\u2019s bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d9703e616eb43c380f370ed23e64f8d\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with PricewaterhouseCoopers, which says that New Zealanders at present pay less and get more, and why does he think it is clever to privatise parts of the accident compensation scheme so that New Zealanders pay more and get less?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217051fa1d7cc4ff1b9a1fdf06ddc5a58\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The first point I make in response is that when making comparisons with Australia, members need to be quite careful. For instance, if someone has an accident in a motor vehicle in Australia, it is considered to be a work accident. In New Zealand, it is managed in a different account. I further point out to the member that PricewaterhouseCoopers is the very organisation that he has been constantly criticising for the actuary assessments of the liabilities of the scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b0b3b51f4614a98bd5875aed9babbba\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the strong statement by the Employers and Manufacturers Association (Northern) about the importance of reintroducing experience rating to the scheme to provide stronger incentives for workplaces?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de2d2a2184e2487a9880fbc2272562e7\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do. I was interested that Labour members opposite are very supportive of the Employers and Manufacturers Association (Northern), and they make very plain their strong support for experience rating to be introduced. I hope Labour will take the advice of the Employers and Manufacturers Association (Northern), and support the Government\u2019s bill so that we can have stronger incentives for safe workplaces.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8ca41eb7df245029028c6a59f9766d3\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the M\u0101ori Party that M\u0101ori are overrepresented in primary industry, where work is often casual, seasonal, or part-time, and therefore that proposed changes will disproportionately affect M\u0101ori workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4ef3c29473a494d95911ff67e5afcf6\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I have had very constructive discussions with the M\u0101ori Party about a number of provisions, including that, but I think there is broad agreement that it does not make sense for a person receiving accident compensation to be receiving more income per year than they were in work. That was never what Sir Owen Woodhouse proposed, yet that is what the changes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3566026949a48659fa849f7b388677b\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s nonsense!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022376b74e9d86e41538f451ddc3383088a\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member says that it is not true. Let me explain it very simply. If a person receives 80 percent of his or her earnings for the last 4 weeks for ever, and works only for 3 months of the year, we have created an incentive for that person to stay on the scheme, which I accept is consistent with Labour\u2019s overall philosophy of keeping people dependent on the State.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022327a06f904024388b2d9faf6253d3bc7\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by comments made to me in the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee on 2 July that \u201Cit is not intended that that stocktake group will do investigation into introducing competition into the work account because, quite frankly, it\u2019s not a priority. It\u2019s not the area where the scheme needs attention.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bcd33e027094922ba5ec21703d07875\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The terms of reference for the stocktake that have been approved by Cabinet do not include, at this stage, competition on the work account. Just as members opposite would know, when one is a minority Government there are agreements that are reached with support parties, and priorities change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294ecb492e5564f43b166a9aad5c09960\u0022\u003EJohn Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: Has he had representations from any insurance companies indicating that they look forward to the introduction of a competitive model that will offer choice and allow the development of innovative ways of reducing injuries and managing claims?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e260cba4d3e0487ea4b3985a978e2c42\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I have had only a couple of discussions and, I think, a letter or two from members of the insurance industry. Some have advocated the position that the member has raised. I have also had a position from some insurance companies that have noted that with the state of the global financial markets, there is some resistance to it at this time simply because of not having the strength in their balance sheets to make the investment to enter into a competitive market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221a6b32f2993f49d69bf764e600d9166a\u0022\u003ETax Working Group\u2014Membership\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u002261f70a9d5f9e4602ae5b5e8dca9c6ff7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261f70a9d5f9e4602ae5b5e8dca9c6ff7\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he have any concerns regarding the membership of the Tax Working Group?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3465c8d32024b7089acd8259e2cdafe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3465c8d32024b7089acd8259e2cdafe\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E No, I do not. The members of the Tax Working Group were appointed by Victoria University, and where they have need for a wider range of expertise, they invite people in, including experts on poverty and economists who may have views that do not correspond with those of the group.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b639281422b0444e91ca010dc89c4ce3\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Does he have any concerns about PricewaterhouseCoopers\u2019 chairman, John Shewan, being on the Tax Working Group, in light of Mr Shewan\u2019s advice to Westpac to use tax reduction measures that the High Court subsequently found to be unlawful and that cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022764104d310c44ba2adb518080b0ca32e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not. As I said, Victoria University appointed a group of acknowledged tax experts, and, regardless of who their clients are, their advice to the Government will stand or fall on its merits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ba8e97e3c2b4192bdb2284ea03e8398\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government lend its support to the formation of the Tax Working Group, when the Minister appears to have ruled out the vast majority of its recommended options as presented to date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed35ae17a85843fd83ea0cf7a143c04a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: In fact, we have made it clear throughout the year that we have ruled out almost nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234e4af9886c64ec5bacc26c505beceed\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that, according to the Auckland High Court, Mr John Shewan advised Westpac to use tax reduction measures in order to pay a tax rate of only 6.5 percent instead of the corporate rate of 30 percent, and that those tax reduction measures were subsequently found to be unlawful tax avoidance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9ad031ad6bb4069a3bcfab37eab8604\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I do not intend to make comment on the case in any way that might compromise the Crown\u2019s position. As I said before, from the Government\u2019s point of view the advice of the Tax Working Group will stand or fall on its merits, regardless of who offered that advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca9163990f4f4fc3886a09556b4e83b8\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: How does he think the recommendations from the Tax Working Group will look in the eyes of ordinary New Zealanders if, for example, the Tax Working Group suggests increasing GST for ordinary New Zealanders, when one of the experts on the group has been advising overseas banks on how to avoid tax to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe38312f4dfe415182f4f8a7212e6f07\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I think the public will judge the outcome of this exercise by the wisdom of the Government\u2019s decisions. The Government will have a look at the advice, it will decide whether there is a strong enough case for change, and any case for change will have to balance equity with positive economic effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bec8e10e0f2e4a9c8cb69496194d089f\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: So far as he knows, are any other members of his Tax Working Group involved in court cases involving tax avoidance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0264d5d34a646c2ae951b9949303ac9\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Not to my knowledge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225332c56e8bf54a71a186b686274f2cd6\u0022\u003EEmissions Trading Scheme\u2014Effective Amendments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022576327ea40684e4cb57b5b133366bd26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022576327ea40684e4cb57b5b133366bd26\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Climate Change Issues: Does he stand by his statement that the changes to the emissions trading scheme make the scheme \u201Cworkable and affordable\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00221f11fe4ea57b46dba7c68654df7eb01c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f11fe4ea57b46dba7c68654df7eb01c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for Climate Change Issues):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. The bill makes 34 technical changes to fix faults in the previous Government\u2019s legislation, including issues like tree weeds, to make it more workable. The bill halves the price increases for electricity and petrol during the transitional phase, which makes the scheme more affordable for families and businesses\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f704874a0c2c4821a83f55a1dd500e84\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Face your kids and tell them they\u2019re going to pay!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222791ce879fe240a3b0fd78a2a594f5dc\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Mr Cunliffe is in favour of higher power bills and higher petrol bills; why does he not tell the public that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219bc38db35d74266bfeeb9c7649fdfe2\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen the analysis from Dr Christina Hood, who manages climate change issues for the Kapiti Coast District Council, that shows that his changes to the emission trading scheme represent a Government subsidy of $105 billion to polluters by 2050, and how does he reconcile this with his claims that his changes to the emissions trading scheme make it more affordable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b01d07a06e543f895fbce1e9f115cf0\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I do not take my climate change advice from the Porirua City Council; I take it from sources that are far more reliable. But if the member wants to argue that there are tens of billions of dollars of subsidies under the modified scheme, he must put his hand up and say that there are tens of billions of dollars of subsidies under the previous Labour Government scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b0d1cb3f2524c8e8db6cdbec5d28aef\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has the Minister received from officials on the workability of the timetable for implementing the existing legislation by 1 January if the legislation is not amended?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222780abc0641c432c9d0f09dd9996450d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I was advised that even if the new Government had pushed the go button on the very day that we took office, the time frames for implementing the existing legislation could not be achieved. The stationary energy and industrial processes regulations come into effect on 1 January 2010. It simply would not have been possible to develop allocation plans by that date with the consultative processes that were added in during the late stages of the bill. That is why it is important that Parliament pass amendments so that we do not have the mess that was left to us by the previous Government with its emissions trading scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbdb19c6a36c428ca1be2c5503cb9020\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e23c7fc734d64a049f818ce6bd4abe29\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon David Cunliffe and the Hon Gerry Brownlee will cease their exchange. I have called Charles Chauvel for a supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee1b24b801bc42d6bdbfe3cc4e1d3dc3\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen comments made by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment that the provisions of the emissions trading scheme amendment legislation are incompatible with achieving a 50 percent by 2050 pollution reduction target, and will allow carbon credits to be freely allocated for ever; and are these examples of how he thinks the changes he is making to the scheme will make it workable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f94b36567fd8473c80097775e0d42023\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The interesting feature is that in aligning the New Zealand emissions trading scheme quite closely with that of Australia, all the criticisms that the member makes of the New Zealand emissions trading scheme are criticisms that he could make of the Australian Labor Government\u2019s Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme. I think the key fault in the analysis is that those parties are not considering the fact that the phase-out rate under the legislation is reviewed every 5 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef2163c44a9e4f739122de3ed088ca69\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister respond to comments from the Business Roundtable that the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research - Infometrics modelling is not a satisfactory basis for analysing the complex effect of climate change policies, and to comments from Treasury that the regulatory impact analysis on his emissions trading scheme changes \u201Cdo not provide an adequate basis for informed decision making\u201D, and what do these statements say about his claim that his changes will make the scheme workable and affordable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bf63dbcc40344b39d8af6442a8c0161\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I could list over a dozen bills that the previous Government passed with exactly the same note in respect of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b30b5917d0a4682a654a8bbca8103e9\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked the Minister a very straightforward question. This is the first bill about which Treasury has made this sort of criticism in its regulatory impact statement. I simply ask that rather than talking about other legislation, he address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ec8723bfe2b40628153bbbc623bb0d0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order is being heard. If I recollect the member\u2019s question correctly, though, I believe that he started with \u201CHow does the Minister respond\u201D to certain statements. With a question like that, how the Minister responds is not something the Speaker can have a lot of control over. If the member wants a more precise answer, he needs to ask a more precise question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275ba4869f77346ac93e6299e2ce217f4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I think the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research - Infometrics report is a very fair analysis, and it provides a good framework for a balanced climate change policy. The last point I would make is that what the Government is doing with the emissions trading scheme is exactly what National members said when they campaigned at the last election. We are simply delivering on our election promises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bb03a86026049f1980f27e3e5e6bf02\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: What further example can the Minister provide of making the Climate Change Response Act more workable by addressing errors in the existing legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022627def9249094ff4874ff7d536414070\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Companies such as Olex New Zealand in New Plymouth, which produces cable during a nitrogen cure process, are captured under the existing legislation and face considerable costs from 1 January next year. No other competitor internationally is facing this cost, and it was an error by the previous Government to include its activities in the emissions trading scheme. Quite frankly, that error is putting jobs at risk. The process does not generate greenhouse gas emissions; that is why it should not be included. That is one of the reasons members of this House should support the bill, which fixes that mistake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ff24040627c445db2432f6af66c6f58\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: Has any other country included pre-1990 forests in an emissions trading scheme, and does Australia plan to include pre-1990 forests in any such scheme it may implement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218389bea955341da8dcbcea7f560cf66\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Two points. The first is that we are the first country in the world to include forestry in an emissions trading scheme, because, unlike most developed countries, forestry actually has a very significant impact on New Zealand. The second point is that, in respect of Australia, there is a complete ban on any deforestation of pre-1990 forests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4de076158db4c569015f3618db5edb6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 11. [Interruption] My apologies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242c95949aeb94079b0330d9eafd1a9b1\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Does the Minister support the international 350 campaign to return climate-changing gases to a concentration of below 350 parts per million in the atmosphere\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205d9459567054d5ba4c9471ba379bc03\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I could not hear the member\u2019s question, because there was so much shouting and barracking going on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bcb0d5e68304fb49a3eb971068b1f54\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I accept that it was difficult to hear the member\u2019s question, and I apologise for not calling her immediately. I invite her to start her question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022426c454861294b36b7fe183ba523f8bb\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Does the Minister support the international 350 campaign to return climate-changing gases to a concentration of below 350 parts per million in the atmosphere; if so, how will his changes to the emissions trading scheme help to achieve that goal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e43de9295e04ce99b057e8506b8c0ba\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I commend the 350 campaign organisers on their efforts, both in New Zealand and internationally, to raise the profile of the problem of greenhouse gas emissions and climate change. I do not believe that the 350 parts per million target is realistic. The target that the New Zealand Government has adopted is a limit of a 2 degree temperature rise, and, for carbon dioxide equivalent gases in the atmosphere, a concentration not exceeding 450 parts per million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5c87744f0d84afb926170164e37f072\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table pages 1 and 5 of the submission of the climate change issues manager of the Kapiti Coast District Council to the Finance and Expenditure Committee, which state that the changes to the emissions trading scheme represent a $105 billion subsidy from the Government to polluters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d09a24c43504491a672a6d9107f89c5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table those pages from that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocuments, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bef80261e2c348b68209b35c58940740\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I noted that Mr Cunliffe objected to my statement that the Government was committed to a 450 parts per million target\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022308617b4f1a34a4abfbc92696a647cd4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a9369f269724df59a87a408898d96ef\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table a Cabinet minute from the previous Government where it agreed to 450 parts per million as New Zealand\u2019s negotiating position on climate change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f974ab5218c344d5a04351580fd429a5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I take it that leave is being sought to table a Cabinet minute? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e16b1b79e6d54aa9b55d75b50d0b77f1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220399b3f744ab4533ba4814e40c96ec0d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a761570465ba4566b434e8c03d8aa253\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. When one is misrepresented it is always difficult to know whether to object before or after the question is put, but, of course, I asked the Minister the question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caf0097a135e4b2fbca500488a14d70d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. [Interruption] I am on my feet and there will not be interjection. I cannot allow the member to debate this. I do apologise to him; I should have stopped the Minister earlier. He should have come straight to his point of order, rather than introducing debating matter, and I can see that he acknowledges that he did not quite follow the correct procedure. I invite members to leave it at that, considering that the main purpose was the seeking of leave to table a document, which leave was refused by the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b7b6b82b485426dba591387512c495c\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table page 8 of the submission of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment to the Finance and Expenditure Committee, which states that carbon credits will be freely allocated for ever, and that the changes to the emissions trading scheme are incompatible with the Government\u2019s target of 50 percent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222453eb44ecbb4a91bd125874940a018a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that page from that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3e68eeae77743d3984b94453930d1ae\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table page 1 of the submission from the Business Roundtable, which states that the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research - Infometrics modelling is not a satisfactory basis for analysing the complex effect of climate change policies; and also page 12 of the explanatory note of the amendment bill, which states that Treasury does not believe that the regulatory impact statement provides \u201Can adequate basis for informed decision making\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255c5d74cd9a54bb2b0251893e0a30d9c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table those two pages from those two documents. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5b98a4102294e3a82adce9d34cd1cb9\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table page 16 of the Cabinet paper from the Minister for Climate Change Issues entitled Moderated Emissions Trading Scheme\u2014proposed amendments to the Climate Change Response Act 2002, which states that proposed policy settings for intensity-based allocation indicate a cumulative increase in Government debt of around 6 to 8 percent of GDP by 2050.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226073651696b7485fb9c713d8ceabc609\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0e64d0746114204a0f04b8c68976523\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Just to assist members, I point out that all the submissions regarding the emissions trading scheme are on the parliamentary website under \u201CCommittee documents\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022654389fcc97a40e2b492d9124c76f312\u0022\u003EPrisoners\u2014Employment Training Skills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022c38f293e03e543e4af8999698f8b30ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c38f293e03e543e4af8999698f8b30ca\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: What recent announcements has she made on employment training skills for prisoners?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022309863b7420548ca8fcb27ca04b504d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022309863b7420548ca8fcb27ca04b504d5\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E Recently I launched the Prisoner Skills and Employment Strategy 2009-2012. This strategy will ensure that more prisoners leave prison with essential work skills and habits. Research shows that prisoners who find work after their release are less likely to reoffend. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223a1a528825144f49f276bf0e1c4c776\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Prisoner Skills and Employment Strategy 2009-2012 assist prisoners to be more employable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc0bc2de392241b5b08e85030a72b03a\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: The strategy details the plan to boost the number of prisoners learning industry-based skills by 1,000 by 2011. That was an election promise, and it will assist prisoners to leave prison with better skills than when they entered. There is also a much stronger focus on education and skills development in the strategy, and it targets offenders who are serving sentences of 6 months who currently have fewer opportunities to access the training and employment opportunities provided by the Department of Corrections. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224725825684d24f228f9a3920d54bfbb7\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation\u2014Counselling\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022eae43544d4134ed8af2f18a389062d18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eae43544d4134ed8af2f18a389062d18\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for ACC: Does he stand by his statement last Thursday that \u201CIn respect of the member\u2019s claims that people in Wellington are making decisions about such counselling, I assure the member that those decisions are being made by properly qualified psychiatrists and others who have the clinical skills to make them\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00224f3258e7294442fe866ad2319d1a0b24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f3258e7294442fe866ad2319d1a0b24\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do. The Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) has registered health professionals, including psychiatrists and clinical psychologists, and that includes a wide range of health disciplines, including counsellors, psychotherapists, and psychologists who are on contracted peer review. All those clinicians are supported by the clinical directorate at the ACC.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f1725326f4a4dceb5c62c92ae33f43f\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: Is it still the case that the victims of sexual abuse are suffering from extensive delays in having their claims processed by the ACC, and how is this clinically acceptable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d12dfda00ab468380ea087954979839\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The system by which people make claims is that they receive four counselling sessions, without any questions being asked. The counsellor then lodges an application with the ACC. It is reviewed by proper clinical specialists, and decisions are made from there. I think that the major difficulty, and where this issue has caused controversy, is that the legislation requires that in order for a person\u2019s ACC claim to be valid, he or she has to meet the provision passed into law in 2001 by the previous Government that requires a mental injury to have been sustained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7004796268047e09a2269fdcdf53a23\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not think that the Minister has addressed the question. The question was quite specific. It was about the extensive delays that victims of sexual assault are suffering at the moment. He has not addressed that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222eac460ea12d4b1fbc9bd37f21e6da95\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think, in fairness to the Minister, that the way that the Minister answered the question was by giving a very full answer, explaining how the process worked. In doing so I believe that he was actually disputing the assertion that the member made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fdd65432b2d4f5b942a4c34bc2b89ec\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Minister ignoring clinical advice that the guidelines that his Government is introducing next week are not clinical best practice and may potentially harm those who need counselling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f347b06b1a204160ac7545fcc235485b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Far from ignoring clinical advice, the new guidelines for treatment arise from a study that was done at Massey University, and they have been approved by the clinical directorate of the ACC. I have no intention of overriding the ACC\u2019s clinicians in making decisions about what is appropriate for these very sensitive claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223563a63d338043f59514e6855a75d1b4\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister instruct the ACC to reconsider imposing these guidelines, which have been described as clinically unsafe by the New Zealand Association of Psychotherapists, the Association of Counsellors, the Christian Counsellors Association, and the Association of Social Workers, or are the clinical skills of those people irrelevant?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c49e8ec0766444da9da93e368a69306b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I think that at the core of this issue is a professional tension between counsellors, psychotherapists and psychologists, and psychiatrists. If we read the Massey University study, we see that the changes that the ACC has made in this area are strongly supported by the research done at Massey University by some of the most highly skilled clinicians in this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a9496b471b84c8ea59a491aaa57a453\u0022\u003EQuestions to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a49f4fc37ebd4fb38c68fb1f65b56c4c\u0022\u003EClimate Change Response (Moderated Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill\u2014Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288512e81d5164d8c9e190775fbee6cc4\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee: How many submissions were received by the committee on the Climate Change Response (Moderated Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022588f813a73a9498ebb471e429e552d2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022588f813a73a9498ebb471e429e552d2d\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee):\u003C/span\u003E As at this afternoon, 374 submissions had been received.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270a6ee8b79404dfa8844c2202e6ee063\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Did he, as the chair of the committee, initially ask the clerk of the committee to invite only 27 submitters to attend and give evidence to the committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edfebb96dc3244479587cb7282e34fad\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: Pursuant to the committee\u2019s instructions, I asked the clerk to get the process of hearing submissions under way after our meeting, which finished, I think, at about 7 p.m. on Wednesday of last week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292ecfc342234493b8a6d29a8523bf3f8\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Did Labour members of the committee make the suggestion to him that no submissions be held, as was suggested to me by Mr Charles Chauvel in discussions on an amendment bill when Labour and National were\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a984f3ed17c44259b3c2575d0212097\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d49f45734f140928f45fefa476f871b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s terrible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cfd75358d614c4db15c2ccbec22ba1e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what they suggested. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bae21071ea3447d7a321d005220b01d7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d85334de25a4586bd623c5dfd2e21b0\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what Charles said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dbe17f2974343cb8293b1154d127086\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the Hon Dr Nick Smith that he must stop interjecting when I am on my feet. I also apologise, because the Minister has caught me unawares, as normally only one supplementary question is allowed in questions to members. What is more, the supplementary question that the Minister was seeking to ask was not strictly within the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea63dcc44ca042678acbb6b6bdb44d12\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an email exchange between the chairperson and me, containing the initial suggestion for hearing only 30 submitters, and the response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223aa70683a75948549463758ae41a76c6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022058b2197fdb84e40b67ab225f88ec769\u0022\u003EClimate Change Response (Moderated Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill\u2014Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299498df914f1430996f0a4d5a93a42d7\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee: When did the committee begin hearing oral submissions on the Climate Change Response (Moderated Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u00221f6ed3c1e0c545fa8986f74a36e74027\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f6ed3c1e0c545fa8986f74a36e74027\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee):\u003C/span\u003E The committee began hearing evidence on the bill on Thursday, 15 October 2009, at around 4 p.m. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3b9bce9bde14693b7d4df7435043b4a\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Did he ask, as chair of the committee, for the clerk to plan for a total of only 5 hours of evidence from submitters over the course of 1 day on the Climate Change Response (Moderated Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e01ec3e4eb5b4b0091176931fea48012\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: On that Thursday there were about 5 hours available to the committee to hear evidence, so that is what was asked. Of course, there were other days available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a7b15e56f8684c2cbbe0ac1b3abbacac\u0022\u003EClimate Change Response (Moderated Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill\u2014Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f0803156ffc41babb1218acc3290ccf\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee: What, respectively, are the most and the least amounts of notice given to a submitter for an invitation to appear before the committee on 15 October to speak to their submission on the Climate Change Response (Moderated Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022396fd263d7084a82b5c0f37aa50bd0a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022396fd263d7084a82b5c0f37aa50bd0a6\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee):\u003C/span\u003E The first submitters offered hearing times on 15 October 2009 were contacted on the evening of 14 October 2009, straight after the meeting at which the committee made its decision, as a whole committee, to hear from submitters. Submitters heard on the 15th were also contacted that morning and in the afternoon for bookings that evening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a6db7a085ea4fd0845ffffd01b9768a\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Did he, during public submissions to the committee, receive any complaints from submitters giving evidence about the short notice of their invitation to appear and give evidence before the committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022906165617b2248479818dbc7e85a1e5c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not believe that the chair of the committee is responsible for what submitters to the committee might say. He has no responsibility for that whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229139066645aa42f580e114a7b924ac64\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just wanted to make sure that you heard my question. I asked the member whether, as chair of the committee, during the public submissions he received complaints from submitters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fab72b015d54e6390a2bffae858d3fd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I heard the member\u2019s question very clearly. It is not in order to ask the chair of the committee that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fc9b51bc0d148c9b6bf1db7293adabb\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. May I understand the reasons for that ruling? I had a look at\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccb534ef665a49c689024fb934b607df\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat. I am very happy to explain to him that the chair of the committee is not in any way responsible for what those making submissions at the committee might say, be it about the time of the warning they have been given in terms of when they might make their submission, or the contents of their submission. The chair has no responsibility whatsoever, and he cannot be questioned on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fa115c551ac84ede82758b7ffcae8f80\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fa115c551ac84ede82758b7ffcae8f80\u0022\u003EWar Pensions Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224f92394e93a040cba150e39b4e016672\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000590\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022342d34dddc184365b5c457c0ad6e2100\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022342d34dddc184365b5c457c0ad6e2100\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E In conclusion, I say that the Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill, now divided into the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Amendment Bill and the War Pensions Amendment Bill, has been accepted and supported by all parties in this Parliament except the ACT Party, which, during the Committee stage made it clear that it would oppose it. I am delighted that this legislation will go through. It was started by Labour in Government and has been completed by the National Government. It will be widely welcomed by older New Zealanders who look forward to being able to travel and to live overseas, taking with them a large proportion of their New Zealand superannuation, which is something that they worked for for many years and they believe is their entitlement. It is not a benefit; it is a pension, and they are delighted that with the passage of this legislation they can make choices about where they go to live and how they can now spend that money. Under the old criteria they could have only 50 percent of their pension. This legislation is supported by this House; I am pleased to see it being passed today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227aa3fa2105ca4430ab022f63d3849871\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is\u2014[Interruption] Is the member seeking a call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a347549506d4914882e246d494caaff\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022184511aa6a854caab6a25c1a6471f5ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022184511aa6a854caab6a25c1a6471f5ac\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just say that it is very impolite for conversations to be going on while members are speaking. I know that the member here had only a minute and a bit left, but it was very difficult to hear. If members want to speak they should move out into the lobbies. I do not know whether the member was calling or not, because there are people standing in front of him. If any member wants the call he or she needs to stand up and seek it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9c8b55359ef4af78a30cb01071a778c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9c8b55359ef4af78a30cb01071a778c\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in support of the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Amendment Bill and the War Pensions Amendment Bill. [Interruption] I am pleased those are the ones we are on and that everything is on target, and I thank the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EIt is important to note that these are changes that have been wanted for some time and that they have received wide support from across the House. There was goodwill on both sides of the table, around the select committee process. We received substantial help from the officials who were present and they guided us through the process. As the previous speaker has said, this legislation was initiated under the previous Government and it has continued under this Government. It deals equitably with those hard-working New Zealanders who have spent years contributing to our society, paying their taxes in anticipation that in their elder years they would receive superannuation. We do want those people to travel around the world. We certainly want them to come back, but it is good for their health and the health of our nation that they travel around the world, not only to visit their family but also to drink in all that this world has to offer, and to come back and add to the rich tapestry that is the wonderful country in which we live. This bill enables them to be able to do that and to reap the benefits of their long years of hard work, working towards a better New Zealand, as we all are. I endorse this legislation and commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022924880338dc643b3a9efab1b5615205c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022924880338dc643b3a9efab1b5615205c\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak in support of this legislation. Just to recap the purpose, this legislation amends the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001 and the War Pensions Act 1954. The whole intent is to make it easier for superannuitants and veterans to receive their superannuation or pension if they travel or, in many instances, work overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThe provisions for these payments have been in place since 1 April 1990, but they provided only for a flat rate of 50 percent of the domestic rate of the payment at the time these people left New Zealand. Effectively, New Zealand superannuitants and recipients of the veterans pension who travelled overseas received only 50 percent. In many instances that flat rate deterred retired people and veterans from travelling for any length of time overseas, because it was just not possible for them to access the superannuation that they were entitled to because they had reached the age of 65 and were superannuitants or had served New Zealand and were on the veterans pension. It was a very unfair situation and, one might say, quite punitive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI am really pleased, as is everyone in the House, that from 2 November this will no longer be the case. Those people who travel overseas will not lose 50 percent of their pension; they will receive all of the pension that they are entitled to. I think that will be a major benefit to people who have reached retirement age or who have served New Zealand and have served it well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EAlong with my colleagues, I am very happy to speak in support of this bill, but at the risk of being just a little negative, I will repeat what I said in an earlier speech in the House. I am concerned about how this measure will be funded. This increased benefit for recipients of superannuation and veterans benefits in New Zealand is something that all members in this Parliament support, and that is a very, very good thing, but its funding is also very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThat is why it is very important to put money aside into the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, which we can call the Cullen fund, to continue to fund New Zealand superannuation at the level that it should be funded. In the National Government\u2019s Budget Labour members were very, very concerned to see the deferral of payments into the fund. What does that mean? It means that the Superannuation Fund account is not receiving the money it currently needs to have. It means, with the best will in the world, that although we are now extending people\u2019s rights with regard to superannuation, which we have all acknowledged is good, we now have a big question mark about the funding, which is not good. We must ask how we will sustain the funding into the Superannuation Fund for generations to come as we continue, I would hope, to enhance these payments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI feel strongly about this and I urge the Government to reconsider the deferral of the Superannuation Fund payments, to enable the fund to grow so that all these obligations can be met and will not cost future generations of New Zealanders in terms of their access and their rights to superannuation. I think that is important and I urge the Government to consider doing this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI know that after the Budget was released, Treasury showed that Bill English\u2019s plan to gut the Superannuation Fund by 50 percent meant that it would never be able to catch up. It means that in the future a Government\u2014it would certainly not happen under a Labour Government, but it could happen under more conservative Governments\u2014could use that as an argument for attacking the rate of superannuation and the rights that are part of the superannuation package. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EMembers opposite might say that is rubbish and that it is simply not the case. I would say to those members\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298eaa56aef064e5ab8e20ee6307a9280\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019d say: \u201CHow would you pay for it?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c14a30538ef6407893a7b780db3d9f6e\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Who said that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8820e4e424d496d96f39b20f037c61a\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: How would you pay for it in these conditions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ada6e2aca48e49b9993812444fee6249\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: We are not bringing the Deputy Speaker into the question are we, Mr Deputy Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa256928a71d49b7a6e14905b5eb6455\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, we are not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244ebdbf390c447069efea31af32d31f8\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: How would Labour pay for it in these economic times?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206c12e7185854a0b9c024a1185ad6516\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Labour would pay for it, but the member has just asked where Labour would get the money from. Labour would continue\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af2d6ad4d014425d9997b98a0add4c8a\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: That is the question; you\u2019ve got it in one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235bf51316bc34bb28f5c44eac39dfc72\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, because Government members are now asking quite openly where we would get the money from to maintain superannuation at its current level. What does that bring into question? Well, it makes me ask what this Government\u2019s agenda is. I ask what this Government\u2019s agenda is, when Government members are sitting on the other side of the House asking that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EChester Borrows is sitting on the other side of the House and saying that National has cut the contributions to the Superannuation Fund, but if we want to maintain superannuation at its current level, he is asking Labour members where they would get the money from. I find that pretty abhorrent. I have a lot of respect for Chester Borrows. I think that he is a good select committee chair. But I think he has quite unwittingly exposed the National Government\u2019s agenda for superannuation in this country. He has asked where Labour would get the money from to maintain superannuation at the current levels. Is that correct? Is that the question the member is asking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce81181e3d8f4bfeaa97587a747146d6\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: The question is where would Labour get the money from to maintain the contributions to the super fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e358dc4d6884715ba750b967f766b9b\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I find that quite reprehensible. It is an appalling statement to make. It is putting pensioners and future generations at risk. I must say to Mr Borrows that I am very, very disappointed to hear that. You are the last member I would have expected that sort of statement from. I will find it very difficult in the select committee tomorrow to treat you with respect. I am really quite concerned about this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5a0d85d582a4bcbaae7139d60f93a2d\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d691c08b39ce4d32b8baf9f1e356f790\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I mean, to treat the member with respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd31fd6daa484fa9bf6a1028763ff7e0\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CBorrow\u201D by name, borrow by nature.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea98c5c4b0464fff838e18222a39c65d\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: It is \u201CBorrow\u201D by name and borrow by nature. I say to Mr Deputy Speaker that I have never had any trouble whatsoever treating you with respect, and I will continue to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265cf97f0aede494f95036e091cb89437\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1ac2f56378a4fbfa20ddafa2c700d1e\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Coming back to the matter in hand, I am pleased that this bill is before Parliament. As I have said before, this would have been a good bill to rush through in the 100 days of action, rather than the one slashing KiwiSaver rates. But it is here now, and I am supporting it. But the question I ask the Government is, if these levels of payments are to be maintained, then how will we continue to keep making those contributions to the Superannuation Fund? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4c155d0339b48ddaf45ae0bd83a0357\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4c155d0339b48ddaf45ae0bd83a0357\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa i t\u0113nei ahiahi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAs we consider this bill today, crowds will be heading to Mangah\u0101nea Marae in Ruat\u014Dria to bid their farewells to the renowned educator and mentor, Mate Huatahi Kaiwai, as mentioned by the Hon Parekura Horomia yesterday. This kuia of 94 years of age was the proud mother of nine children, and Mate was also kuia to 31 mokopuna and 33 great-mokopuna. She was awarded Te Whet\u016B o Te Tau by Te Taura Whiri i te Reo M\u0101ori, the Maori Language Commission, a couple of years ago for her lifelong contribution to the retention and preservation of M\u0101ori language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EBut there was another distinctive characteristic of Mate, and that was the fact that she was the daughter of Ta Apirana T\u016Brupa Ngata, Ng\u0101ti Porou leader, politician, esteemed scholar, devout land reformer, and writer. His wide-ranging scholarship resulted in a unique publication of a collection of waiata, Ng\u0101 M\u014Dteatea; the journal Te W\u0101nanga; the revision of the M\u0101ori Bible; and a survey called The M\u0101ori People Today: A General Survey. But his legacy was also important in encouraging his people to develop and farm their land, while also preserving their culture and maintaining their unique identity\u2014all aspects that his daughter clung to until her dying days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI draw attention to the inspiration of that kuia in this brief contribution to the debate, because she represents, in aspects, just how treasured our pakeke are, and as a consequence should lead us to seek to improve the income levels and support for them in whatever form we can. It is because of our aroha, our love, for kuia such as Mate that the M\u0101ori Party has previously supported legislation to amend the income and asset-testing regime for elderly people requiring indefinite long-term residential care. We supported the initiative of the SuperGold card, and more recently we have extended the eligibility for the single living alone rate to previously excluded categories of superannuitants and veterans. In many ways, these votes have all paved the way for the decision to have this collection of bills, which have now been split off and are before the House right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EBut there is another special characteristic to the legacy of Nanny Mate. As the daughter of Sir Apirana Ngata, I think she represents a unique connection to our past. To all intents and purposes, she sits at the cusp of another era, a gateway to Te Ao M\u0101ori of days gone by. Our cultural framework establishes the expectation that it is the role and the responsibility of the middle and younger generations to properly care for our elders. For the M\u0101ori Party, wh\u0101nau ora is integral to the proper care and respect for older people\u2014for older people to feel included, loved, secure, supported, and involved in community life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAs part of such an expectation we therefore support the opportunity provided by this raft of legislation to allow superannuitants, and veterans pensioners to travel or retire overseas and still have the ability to receive New Zealand superannuation and pension payments. Such an expectation includes provisions for countries with which New Zealand does not have agreements relating to reciprocity of social security payments. This legislation also amends the current flat rate payment of 50 percent of the benefit when a person leaves New Zealand, with an abatement scheme that entitles those who have lived longer in New Zealand to receive a greater superannuation or pension payment. These are all practical, tangible measures to help make life just a little easier for our older ones. They are also consistent with the M\u0101ori Party policy position, which has promoted the need to raise the rate of superannuation and veterans pensions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe believe that superannuation should be set at a level that provides for an equitable standard of living, pays for all of the essentials, and allows the continued participation of older people in community life. As a consequence of this view, the M\u0101ori Party advocates an increase in superannuation income. Price increases in essentials such as basic food items, petrol, and electricity lend urgency to the need to increase superannuation levels. A 6-monthly inflationary adjustment is also necessary to maintain living standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EBut there is another aspect to the income differential not addressed in this legislation that we believe warrants further examination, and that is the capacity to lower the age of entitlement to New Zealand superannuation to 60 years for groups whose life expectancy is lower than average. The average mortality age for M\u0101ori is around 10 years earlier than it is for non-M\u0101ori. We believe that a lower entitlement age will allow for a more equitable uptake of New Zealand superannuation for all citizens. Of the 65-plus population in New Zealand, in Aotearoa, 5.3 percent are M\u0101ori, so we are aware of the scale of the income difference we are dealing with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe will therefore support this bill, in that it will enable superannuitants and veteran\u2019s pensioners who wish to travel to or live in any country, or travel between any countries, to retain their benefit entitlement. We support it also in that it amends the benefit entitlement of superannuitants and veterans pensioners living overseas. With these two provisos firmly in place, we are happy to state our collective support for this reading of the bill. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022 data-id=\u002235b85e723deb4af193b23f630cc5aa82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235b85e723deb4af193b23f630cc5aa82\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E I want to say how pleased I am that most parties will vote for this legislation at its third reading. I will reflect, as the previous speaker did, on something that happened yesterday. One of my former constituents, Harold Clark, celebrated his 107th birthday. Unfortunately he had to celebrate it not overseas, living where he might have wanted to, but in Middlemore Hospital because he had had a fall. I acknowledge Harold Clark and what he has done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EThe people who will benefit from this legislation will, I think, be listening very carefully today. It is not often that people in this Parliament get up and talk about their support for a bill. Everyone across the House seems to be in favour of this legislation, although I must say to Sir Roger that I could not see the graph he had earlier. I suppose that made it a wee bit difficult. Perhaps that is a pity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EIn my electorate, I have numbers of people coming to my electorate office. We are averaging over 82 people per day, who are walking in off the street. Amongst them are people who are coming to see us about superannuation. I can tell members that some of these people visit because they have Dutch pensions and they think the Government over here is unfair to them. They feel cheated. These bills do not address that. This legislation deals with people who have grown up in New Zealand, worked hard, and, I suppose, have been the strugglers. Then their families leave home, go overseas to live, and they would like to join them. What has been holding them back? I say it has been money that has been holding them back, but this legislation, which was introduced by Ruth Dyson last year, gives people that opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EWe heard the previous speaker talk about the SuperGold card, but those people will not be able to use the SuperGold card when they shift overseas. It will not be able to be transported overseas. But these people will perhaps be able to spend their retirement close to their families and seeing their grandkids. I always thought the way people talked about their grandkids all the time was unusual. All of a sudden, one\u2019s son produces a grandson and one changes one\u2019s mind. If my son went overseas to live, that is where I would want to live because I would want to see my grandkid. For many people, this legislation means that they can now make choices. I think that is why this is really important. It is all about choices. People can stay in New Zealand and collect their national superannuation, or they will be able to live overseas. I think that is very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EYou know, people do get very concerned about national superannuation. They come to the electorate office and they ask all sorts of questions. They want to know what will happen. Of course, that is a real worry for some people. I think one of the big problems many people have is that they listen to talkback radio. On talkback radio, rumours run around like nobody\u2019s business, and listeners get the wrong end of the stick. A lot of people think that with the Cullen fund under siege from the National Government they may not be able to afford to live a modest but reasonable life in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders are worried about the security of their pensions. I think that is a very important point for MPs across the floor to dwell on for a second. If people work all their days in New Zealand, there is an expectation that they will get national superannuation and be able to live on it. If people go overseas to live, they will want to take their pension with them. I think people are now very suspicious. What is the National Government\u2019s real intention towards superannuation? That is why they come to my electorate office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f800b0fec0a74996a801175263355f06\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: Sounds like one of those rumours you want to spread, George.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022506585bcfba24ad382df14265ef9a5bd\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Jonathan Coleman can smile. I do get quite a few people coming to see me about him and his immigration policies and decisions. But the ones I have real sympathy for are the elderly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225cdc26a1bd5488e972a8f4a8f59292b\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: We don\u2019t have conspiracy theories over here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fce56b06ace4e31b3bf11194b259767\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I tell members that for the last 9 years conspiracy theories were running rampant, and all the people were ringing up talkback radio and listening to what they had to say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EThe ordinary, elderly people who come to the electorate office to talk about superannuation are really worried. They take a very, very simple interest in this issue. They look at it from their own point of view. Jonathan Coleman may be laughing and carrying on, but he is the guy who has a poor memory. He is the guy with amnesia. He cannot remember what he tells journalists. He cannot remember what he tells his own colleagues. That happens when someone gets old too, I say to Dr Coleman. People get amnesia and they get things muddled up. In the electorate office in Manurewa we help those people; we actually help them. [Interruption] That member does not know what he\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022738fd359849742cc832c0f8577b82fac\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am having difficulty hearing the member. Interjections should be rare, reasonable, and witty, and I put the stress on \u201Cwitty\u201D. I have not heard any of those. Cross-exchanges are getting a bit out of hand. I ask members to keep the noise down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222793606188104162a16805568e81fc18\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I think it is really important that there is some respect for the elderly, speaking from my own point of view. From calls across the floor I think people should be a wee bit more respectful. I say to Dr Coleman that as one gets closer and closer to 65, one starts to think more seriously about superannuation. I spend quite a bit of time thinking about life after Parliament, in about 8 years\u2019 time. In about 8 or 9 years\u2019 time I think I may be one of those people who has to make a decision on whether I pack up and leave New Zealand and take my pension with me, or stay in New Zealand. Then I think that there will be a Labour Government within about 2 years, so I think I will stay here because it will be another benevolent Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cd78960cd0c485b94e0281dd97f51cd\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: You didn\u2019t like the last one very much, George; I don\u2019t think you\u2019ll like the next one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afbbb8a8fe1243f1ab386ba65d38e94e\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think that in the end many people will look to this legislation as providing opportunities for them. It will make sure people have the choices they rightly deserve. I think all parties can join in supporting this legislation. I listened to Sue Bradford when she spoke earlier today. I think that we will miss Sue Bradford from this place, because she understands ordinary people and what a small amount of money can do for them in their retirement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022 data-id=\u00223057fad34b33416e9b728f16a9f6dd7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223057fad34b33416e9b728f16a9f6dd7f\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E This legislation sets up three regimes for people who wish to retire overseas; how much one gets depends on which country one happens to retire in. If one retires to a country with which we currently have a reciprocal arrangement, then the amount of superannuation one will get depends not only on the formula that is in the bill, but on the rules that are laid down in that agreement. If one elects to go to Australia, one might get anywhere from zero to 100 percent, depending on one\u2019s other income. One could work in New Zealand for 47 years, decide to retire in Australia, and get zero. The reason for this is that we have a reciprocal arrangement with Australia that is means-tested. The same applies if one goes to Canada, the UK, or any of the eight countries with which we have a reciprocal arrangement\u2014the Netherlands is another one. On the other hand, if one goes to any other country outside those eight and outside the 22 Pacific Island countries, then one will get a pension anywhere from 50 to 100 percent. It is not means-tested. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003ESo if one goes to Australia one gets zero to 100 percent\u2014the reason one might get zero is because of the means testing\u2014but if one goes to any other country, putting aside the 22 Pacific Island countries, one will get somewhere between 50 and 100 percent, so one is substantially better off. It depends on the number of years that one has worked. To get the full 100 percent one has to work in New Zealand for 45 years. On the other hand, if you elect to go to one of the 22 Pacific Island countries, you will get 50 percent after 10 years, 75 percent after 15 years, and 100 percent after 20 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f693b83fb144497fac5d41e5bb2affd3\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is bringing the Speaker into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224011d346ce714a7298b512f07cc0d64d\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS\u003C/span\u003E: I am; I apologise. The superannuitant will get 50 percent after 10 years, 75 percent after 15 years, and 100 percent after 20 years. In fact, this policy was, as I understand it, promoted by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and it is a de facto foreign aid policy. I do not believe it is a particularly satisfactory one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EIn this legislation we have an issue of fairness. Is it fair that a New Zealander who has worked here for 45 years and who goes to Australia to live could well get zero pension? On the other hand, someone who goes to a country other than one of the eight countries that we have reciprocal arrangements with and the Pacific Islands is treated more generously\u2014after 20 years if one goes to Australia one will get somewhere between zero and 45 percent. One will get zero if one has too much income, but the maximum one gets after 20 years in New Zealand would be 45 percent. If one goes to another country, putting aside the 22 Pacific Island countries, one will get 45 percent. So in Australia it is zero percent to 45 percent; in other countries it is 45 percent with no means testing. If one goes to one of the 22 Pacific Island countries one will get 100 percent with no means testing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EWe are saying to New Zealanders who have lived here for 65 years and who have worked in the workforce for 47 years or possibly longer that if they happen to choose to go to one of the eight countries with which we have a reciprocal agreement, after 20 years they will get somewhere between nought and 45 percent, and they will get 100 percent only if they have worked the whole 45 years. If they go to one of these other countries they can get up to 100 percent\u2014it will depend on the number of years\u2014but on the other hand, if they go to one of the 22 Pacific Island countries they will get 100 percent after 20 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EI will be interested in how National and Labour actually explain to New Zealanders who have worked here 45 or 47 years why after 45 years\u2019 work they get zero pension if they have other income more than $39,000, whereas if they had chosen to go to another country or a Pacific Island nation they would get 100 percent. In fact, if they chose to go to a Pacific Island nation they would get 100 percent after 20 years. I do not believe that that de facto foreign aid policy is a good policy. If we want to pass that money on we should do it directly rather than in this de facto way. There is an element of fairness, and I think a lot of New Zealanders in Australia are going to be asking politicians in this Chamber to explain why they get zero or a reduced benefit when compared with people from other countries. A good principle might lie behind this legislation, but I tell members that the way it has been implemented is anything but fair. I think a lot of New Zealanders in England, Canada, Australia, the Netherlands, and other countries will find this anything but fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7b55065511b4398bc6392ab08fb1aa7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7b55065511b4398bc6392ab08fb1aa7\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E The member for Manurewa and the deputy leader of the Labour Party noted that this legislation\u2019s introduction was supported by almost all parties in this House. I agree with Ms King\u2019s comment, that a pension is not a benefit; it is an entitlement earned by hard-working, older New Zealanders who have contributed fulsomely to our country over a lifetime. I hope that we will always be internationally recognised as a country that values and respects our senior citizens and guarantees, through our pension system, dignity for all in their retirement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe overriding purpose of this legislation is to create a more flexible regime that reflects New Zealanders\u2019 nomadic inclinations, giving our older citizens greater freedom to travel in their retirement without facing a heavy financial penalty. The key change is a new, more generous maximum payment. Instead of the current flat rate of payment, older New Zealanders will be able to receive up to 100 percent, depending on the number of years they have resided in New Zealand. The legislation also frees up the rules that restrict the ability of superannuitants and veterans pensioners to move around once they get overseas. It also allows payments to people who wish to reside in countries with which New Zealand has no social security arrangements, whether they remain in such countries or begin travelling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThese provisions modernise an overseas payment policy that has been in place for nearly two decades and that is clearly outdated. The current system causes distress for many New Zealanders and prevents some from embarking on the overseas travel that in many instances they had planned for and looked forward to throughout their years of employment. At a time when they deserve to be rewarded for their valuable contributions, many have instead had to modify or cancel those plans upon realising that the current flat rate of 50 percent would provide insufficient income to allow a reasonable standard of living in many countries, or because existing rules restrict their ability to move to more than one country, because payment is linked to residence in one particular country only. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EForcing older people to remain in one country, or preventing their ability to travel to a variety of countries, is punitive and has no basis in sound policy. Because of our geographic isolation, New Zealanders travel long distances whenever they leave our shores. Limiting their pension entitlements when they do so cannot be justified, and I am delighted that this legislation removes that unfairness. This is a good measure. I thank the officials who have worked on it and all who submitted on it, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00221ea3415cbfe84becad2ef6d91262a371\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ea3415cbfe84becad2ef6d91262a371\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E It is a rare moment in our Parliament, unfortunately, when National agrees with Labour and supports our legislation. I am delighted to hear the contributions of that member and his colleagues supporting the progress of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIn my earlier contribution to this debate I raised concerns, though, about the confidence with which younger members of our society can look forward to their retirement, because the National Government has gutted the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. The benefits of this legislation\u2014which will make it easier for superannuitants and people who are in receipt of a veterans pension to travel or retire overseas\u2014will be lost on people, who, because of Bill English\u2019s gutting of the Superannuation Fund, will not have enough money to travel overseas, let along to retire on it. It is not credible for this Government to say that it values older New Zealanders, that it wants to keep the level of superannuation at the level it currently is in order to keep the level of entitlement at the same rate, and that it wants to ensure that people can receive that entitlement when they are 65 years old, while at the same time it is taking away the very fund that will allow that to happen in the future. It will not affect the superannuitants of this year or of next year, but it will affect the superannuation entitlement of members like the Hon John Carter, who made a contribution earlier in this debate. It is very frustrating to hear what I consider to be conflicting points of view from the National Government, when it says that it supports this legislation because it will make it easier for superannuitants to travel or to retire overseas, but at the same time says to people in their 40s and 50s: \u201CBut we are not going to have you retire with that level of income because you\u201D\u2014Not you, Mr Speaker; you are much younger than that. I apologise for referring to you as being in your 40s or 50s. You have a long way to go before you reach that level of age. But those of that age will not be able to receive the level of superannuation that would allow them to retire in confidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EMy colleague and friend, the Hon Annette King, asked the Minister the Hon Paula Bennett during the Committee stage of this debate one simple question. Tragically, the Minister was not able to answer it. She took a call, but she totally ignored the question. It was a very serious issue, which was raised by people who in New Zealand deserve just about more respect than anyone. They are the people who have risked their lives, literally, and their well-being, by going overseas and serving in a war on our behalf. Those war veterans made submissions to the select committee during the process of this legislation, and they expressed some frustration, which it is my understanding was shared by every member of the select committee, with the fact that at the moment the war pension is directly linked to superannuation when it is actually quite a different entitlement. The war pension is granted to a person who has served our country on our behalf, and who has some sort of impairment as a result of his or her engagement. That person might receive that entitlement at a much younger age than a person on superannuation. This is all directly referred to in Part 2 of the original bill, and fortunately at the moment a very extensive review of the War Pensions Act is being undertaken by the Law Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI know that the Minister of Justice is right on top of that issue. He has a very strong personal interest in the war pensions situation. I hope that he is able to advise his colleague the Minister for Social Development and Employment to turn her attention to this issue, because she did not even acknowledge that a question had been asked, and she did not acknowledge the many submissions that were made to the select committee about why the current link is made when there is such a different threshold for entitlement between the two pensions. Changes are clearly needed in this area. The select committee looked at the matter, and on the advice it received and accepted it decided that it was outside the scope of this particular amendment. The committee could not make that amendment progress, but I am certain that Labour would welcome any such amendment that was brought to the House as a result of the Law Commission review. So I hope that the Hon Simon Power can get his colleague the Minister for Social Development and Employment up to speed on this issue, because she clearly missed the boat when it came to what I think were very critical submissions to the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe other issue that was raised earlier in debate\u2014and I was delighted to see the Hon John Carter give a clear commitment to progressing work on this issue\u2014was the huge frustration felt by a number of people who originally lived and worked in another country, but have since moved to New Zealand to retire and now receive New Zealand superannuation. They feel a huge frustration that they lose their entire overseas superannuation when they get the entire New Zealand superannuation. They are not expecting to get two lots of superannuation in full, but they would like to get the percentage of their overseas superannuation they earned while they were overseas, whether it was in Switzerland, Holland, or Canada, and they would like to get the percentage of New Zealand superannuation they earned while they were here. I frankly do not think that that is too big an ask.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWe made some good work on that issue. It never got to the top of our list in terms of Budget priorities, but we had a very strong commitment from the Minister for Senior Citizens, the Hon John Carter, earlier in this debate to progress that issue. Again, that would be an initiative that would be welcomed by New Zealanders. Some people who had lived overseas might be disadvantaged; I think, therefore, that it would be fair to consider giving people the choice. We would not want people to be financially disadvantaged by the fact that their overseas pension is worth considerably less than the value of the New Zealand pension and, actually, compared with many countries, we are quite generous. But compared with other countries, we are not. So some people are financially disadvantaged and the Crown is advantaged by their giving over all their overseas superannuation to the Crown and receiving just the level of New Zealand superannuation. So I hope that the issue outlined in section 70 of the social security legislation will be addressed by the National Government. I will be asking questions of the Minister for Senior Citizens, the Hon John Carter, on a regular basis, because he has given the House a commitment to making progress on that matter. I think that would be very warmly welcomed, not just by members of the House but by those New Zealand superannuitants I referred to earlier, who currently have to miss out on their fair share. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis has been a very worthwhile debate, with the exception of the contribution from the ACT member, who has misunderstood, despite having it very clearly outlined to him that people do not come to New Zealand from the Pacific Islands on a whim. They come here only if they meet the requirements of New Zealand\u2019s immigration policy. They have to meet those standards. They do not decide to come to New Zealand just to get a pension; they come here under the policy that New Zealand sets out. They meet our rules, and that is a fair call. The ACT member was clearly advised that this was not a back room, foreign affairs, New Zealand overseas aid contribution. It was a genuine effort by the previous Government, supported by the current Government, to make sure that when people who were in receipt of New Zealand superannuation wanted to travel or retire overseas, they were not financially disadvantaged in being able to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EAs I said at the beginning of my contribution, we find ourselves in an unusual situation. First of all, it is no longer unusual to have urgency. It seems to be usual to have urgency, and I think there will be a motion put to the House at some stage that we stop calling urgency \u201Curgency\u201D and start calling it \u201Cnormal time\u201D because it is what we do every week. But the Order Paper is very unusual under urgency. Usually when the House moves into urgency it is to progress matters that require the urgent attention of the House outside normal sitting time\u2014for example, the referral of a bill to a select committee if a Minister requires a bill to be back in a very short space of time. We heard in the House last week that the Minister for ACC had intended to progress the ACC legislation, but he had forgotten to secure the support of a majority of members of Parliament so we could not do that legislation under urgency. We did some other very critical matters, such as a customs bill and an offender levy bill. But those issues clearly did not require the urgent attention of the House. It kept members of Parliament in Wellington, away from their families, on a Thursday night, and the huge additional cost to taxpayers, to ordinary citizens of New Zealand, of running this Parliament was for no good reason. Urgency was without justification, and was solely due to mismanagement by the Leader of the House, the Hon Gerry Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis legislation is in that same category. It does not need to be progressed under urgency but, from a personal point of view, I am delighted that the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Amendment Bill and the War Pensions Amendment Bill are being progressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022 data-id=\u00226c7fc5e3135b4430a991d449649d7a8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c7fc5e3135b4430a991d449649d7a8d\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN (National):\u003C/span\u003E As previous speakers on this side of the House have said, it is our pleasure to support and commend the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Amendment Bill and the War Pensions Amendment Bill to the House. I think it is important to note that the reality of life is that people have the best opportunity to travel when they finish work and before other events take over. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003EThe only point I want to make is to pick up on something that the previous speaker, Ruth Dyson, alluded to: the fact that the Social Assistance (Payment of New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Overseas) Amendment Bill, from which these bills were divided, was a previous Labour Government bill. I ask why, if it was such a good bill, it took Labour 9 years to bring that bill before the House. The only thing I can think of is that Labour saw the writing on the wall. The Labour members saw that they would be going out of office, and they wanted to travel overseas and run for the hills. They were looking after themselves, whatever it took. I am very happy to support these bills. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003EBills read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022579728e98dd94c609013211aa63ab86a\u0022\u003ESentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d10f02cd12b84a70be050343463bf72e\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u0022f88c5b5bde95468c80a177bcc1dca5ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f88c5b5bde95468c80a177bcc1dca5ea\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. The bill provides for a $50 levy to be imposed on all convicted offenders when they are sentenced in the District Court and the High Court for one or more criminal convictions. The purpose of the bill is to ensure that offenders, in a general sense, contribute towards addressing the harm that criminal behaviour causes to victims. In 2008 only 15 percent of the estimated 120,000 sentences that were imposed included a component of reparation. Revenue generated from the offender levy, an estimated $13.6 million over the first 4 years, will be used to fund additional entitlements and services for victims of serious crime. I wish to thank Ministry of Justice officials for the considerable amount of work that has gone into this legislation by the ministry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003ELast Friday I was very pleased to announce to the Victim Support conference that eight new entitlements and services for the victims of crime will be funded from the offender levy. Five of those eight will be administered and run by Victim Support. The implementation of the new entitlements and services will be phased in over the next 9 months, and some services will begin before the legislation comes into force, because of the availability of Sentencing Council funding to support the revenue to be generated by the offender levy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EFour of the new entitlements and services will provide further assistance to the families of homicide victims. First, the families of homicide victims will be able to claim up to $10,000, an extra $4,500 on top of the current entitlement, to pay for costs associated with their family member\u2019s funeral. As I said, it is an additional $4,500 over and above what is currently available to them through the accident compensation scheme. Second, the existing Government-funded discretionary grant for the families of homicide victims who are suffering financial hardship, which is administered by Victim Support, will be increased from $1,500 to up to $5,000. The eligibility for it has also been expanded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThird, a new homicide support service will be established. These new paid staff will be managed by Victim Support, and will build on its existing volunteer network to provide nationwide assistance to the families of homicide victims. The service will provide practical and emotional support to families from the discovery of the homicide, throughout the court process, and beyond that time. This will ensure that the families of homicide victims have a central point of contact during their interaction with the justice sector and have a reliable, ongoing source of support and advice. The fourth entitlement for the families of homicide victims is a new grant to support families attending High Court proceedings for those accused of killing their family member. Up to five family members will be able to claim $124 each for every day that they attend court. That is double the rate paid to jurors. This grant will help to mitigate the financial impact of families having to take time off work to attend a trial. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003ETwo of the new entitlements and services to be funded from the offender levy will assist the victims of sexual violence, in particular. A new sexual violence court support service will be established to support the victims of sexual violence during court proceedings. Victims of sexual violence report being traumatised and re-victimised by the justice process. It is our goal to ensure that the court system is responsive to the specific needs of those victims. The second initiative for the victims of sexual violence is a new discretionary grant that will assist victims with the modest one-off expenses associated with the justice process, such as the loss of clothing due to forensic testing. This Government recognises that the emotional and physical impacts of sexual violence are often compounded by the financial costs associated with the crime. This new grant will provide a starting point of $250 to contribute to victims\u2019 immediate costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThe last two entitlements and services will support all victims of serious crime. The Government-funded travel assistance scheme, which is administered by Victim Support, will be increased to better cover the costs of victims of serious crime when travelling to court proceedings and their associated expenses. For travel to court, victims will be able to claim up to $3,000. For travel to Parole Board hearings, victims will be able to claim up to $1,500. That is three times the current amount of the scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EFinally, new information resources will be produced for the victims of serious crime. This will assist crime victims to navigate their way through the court process and will, hopefully, inform them about the services and support that are available to them. I am confident that these new entitlements and services will make a real difference in the lives of the victims of crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EI am not ashamed to say the Government is proud of what we have been able to deliver in this case in a very short period of time. I do not pretend, and nor does the Government, that it will take away the pain of the loss or injury that the victims of crime suffer, but we hope it will help in some way to smooth the path towards resolution. My hope is that this is just the beginning of reform in this area. It is these types of new services and assistance for victims that members should bear utmost in their minds when they deliberate for the final time on this bill. It is, after all, a means to a worthy end. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022a03d18f16f6e4142a32f5a07ac547c6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a03d18f16f6e4142a32f5a07ac547c6d\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E We will not stand in the way of the Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill. I acknowledge two points: the Government\u2019s best intentions with regard to this measure, and the appropriateness of commending the Minister for some of the programmes that he has outlined in respect of the money and resources that will be provided to victims. I join with him in having a sense of revulsion about the offences against victims, especially those involving sexual violation, and about the trauma and tragedy that victims have to go through, along with their family and extended family, as they relive every moment of every day in a court proceeding, which is required to ensure that the offender is dealt with. I sympathise with, as I think all members do on this side of the House, and agree with the motivations behind this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI know some media have accused us of dragging the chain on these things, but I say it is appropriate for Her Majesty\u2019s loyal Opposition to raise matters of concern, and indeed it has a right to do so, because we would like this legislation to work. But without being unkind, I say that throughout this debate we have raised some matters\u2014and I do note some of the Minister\u2019s comments\u2014regarding the provision of services to victims of sexual violation. The Minister announced a provision to compensate victims for the loss of clothing, for instance\u2014a very practical measure. When the victims of sexual violation have to submit clothing for forensic testing, they will get a quantum of money\u2014a couple of hundred dollars. That is appropriate. They will receive some assistance to get through the trauma of a court case, and again that is appropriate. They will also receive some assistance in respect of travel, as will victims not just of sexual violation but of other offences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut if we are dealing with the victims of sexual violation, here is the gap. At the same time as the Minister is announcing small quantities of money for the victims of sexual violation, the Minister for ACC, Nick Smith, is tearing away, cutting back on, and putting new hurdles in front of, the victims of sexual assault and sexual violation in respect of accident compensation. So the victims of sexual violation will get some money for clothing, some money for travel, and some money, rightly, to assist them through the trauma of a court proceeding, and then they are dumped. Their pain and trauma does not simply become cauterised after the verdict and the sentence are delivered by a judge. It continues for the rest of their life, and up until recently, of course, they were eligible for the provision of services from the accident compensation scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI go back to that horrific case in Taranaki. The grandmother of two young boys who were raped, sodomised, and beaten was forced to go to the media and to her local member of Parliament to beg for counselling services for her young ones. The counsellor appointed by the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) said the children needed counselling, and the police said they needed counselling, but ACC turned them down. It seems the new step in the procedures could now be, sadly, trial by media, or trial through the advocacy of an MP. We know there are 1,100 cases now pending of victims who require sexual abuse counselling, which are now in limbo because the Government is sitting on its hands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo although I commend the Minister for what he is proposing to do with some of the money, I say it is a drop in the ocean to victims. Their trauma and their tragedy, and their need for resources and support, do not end when the jury says \u201CGuilty\u201D, and the judge delivers the sentence. It continues, perhaps, for the rest of their lives. This Government takes the view that it will put this issue up in a political pamphlet sort of way, but there is a complete disconnection between what it is trying to do here\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229550b5f5670f427db9430004491e3831\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a shambles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213bec8495ac946e8a63cba03b927b679\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: It is a shambles, as my colleague says, because as Minister Power provides some resources for victims, Nick Smith pulls other resources away. We raised issues around the resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2c06fed39fa4fc796028e0b5182f3f7\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: This is a friendly day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b634cd37a18943e2b7b62087c44ca967\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: The member says it is completely different. Well, that shows Mr Quinn up for what he is. If he sees the issue as being completely different for the victim of sexual abuse or of a sexual assault to require assistance during the court proceeding and beyond that time, I ask him what the difference is. There is no difference to their trauma. I ask him to go and ask a victim of sexual abuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThen we come\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fd9791601bd4a5d807c00d3b0259134\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: What are you talking about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fa22ae9ca3f48af9dd6893e0fa7507d\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if the member woke up, he might know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThen we come to the amounts that are projected to be raised through this levy. I pay tribute to the ACT Party and Mr Garrett, because Mr Garrett made a very important speech. He said that he and his party are as sceptical as the Labour Party about whether this legislation will work. I believe that with a levy of $50 per offender under this legislation, it will cost more than that to collect it. It will cost more to collect the levy than the revenue that is gained to dish out to victims. I predict that the Government will end up topping up, perhaps at the next Budget, the amount of money that it gets in. I predict that the cost of collection will outstrip the money that is brought in. Mr Garrett said, I believe\u2014and he will correct me if I misquote him\u2014he would stand by us, and may even propose amendments himself to try to deliver support for victims in an appropriate way, if this legislation does not work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to the Government that if it were really serious about giving the victims of crime direct assistance, it would not worry about a levy and the bureaucracy of collecting it. If the Government were serious it would take half the money, or maybe a quarter of the money, that it has given to independent private schools\u2014$5 million, $6 million, or any part of the $35 million\u2014and it would give that money to Victim Support directly, and to other non-governmental organisations and agencies that deal with victims every day. It would give them that resource and tell them to go away and do the work that it wants them to do. The Government would tell those organisations to put an arm around victims, look after them, make sure they are OK, and not to worry about the bureaucracy around the collection of the funds for that work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThere would not be any bureaucracy if there were a direct cash injection to those people. But oh, no\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233be57646b474c59b11f2706f8618ff1\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Put it on the bill, Phil!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7efcd6712344042bb86c3f7ea8b0c95\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CPut it on the bill\u201D, someone said. Who was that genius? No we do not have to put it on the bill, Mr Hayes. The Government should take a quantum of the money it is going to give to private schools and give it to those in need, if it is really serious about helping victims. That was another silly interjection from that loose member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f02fec264ad14646a51d2e19b55223c4\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, we are touchy!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3e8c827aa9a40c990959d5971696704\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Yep, we are touchy. I believe that we should make provision in this legislation to resource victims appropriately. We should not write a pamphlet, because what this is really about is saying we have a thing called a victim\u2019s levy. The issue of whether the money gets to the victims of crime is another thing\u2014that is the difference. So it is not putting it on the bill. I say to Mr Hayes that it is called reallocating the priorities, and deciding whether the priority is giving $35 million to private schools or giving $5 million, $10 million, or $15 million to victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe other problem with this levy is that it is $50 per offender. A triple murderer will pay $50, even though he or she has committed three offences. A shoplifter will pay $50. A rapist will pay $50. A person convicted of manslaughter will pay $50. A person convicted of common assault will pay $50. A burglar will pay $50, even if he or she commits five burglaries in a night, affecting five families and creating five sets of victims. We think that is not appropriate. We think that is inequitable and does not recognise the gravity of the crime or the need involved. There again, if we were to provide money directly to, say, Victim Support in the form of an appropriation, then it would be up to the specialist agencies, like Victim Support and other agencies, who in my view deal better than any bureaucrat can with victims every day, to make those assessments and to provide the resource that is needed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThen there is the issue of collection. As we have said, the bureaucracy around collection will cost more than the money that we get in. Then, of course, we note that if an offender owes only the levy and nothing else, then it will not really be collected. Offenders will not be chased for payment of the levy. We did ask the Government, time after time, how it would ensure that the levy will be paid. In law, the levy cannot be taken into account in terms of hardship to the offender by a judge. I thought Mr Borrows made a very good point when he reminded us that fines can be commuted to community service. So a judge can make an assessment on the basis of hardship and if the bill is $300 plus the $50 levy, which cannot be touched, the judge may commute the other $300 to community service or, quite legitimately in law, reduce the $300 to $200. The overall impact of that in totality negates any sort of impact that the offender levy might have had, because by doing that the judge has taken into account the hardship of the offender. There is no way to collect the levy, and at least Minister Power was upfront enough to say he could not guarantee its collection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022b98d1810cddf4a6b9781e2efe9aafaad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b98d1810cddf4a6b9781e2efe9aafaad\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to note that Her Majesty\u2019s loyal Opposition is supporting the Government in respect of the Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill. It will address the cost of being a victim in this country, because for too long victims have been ignored. Given that there have been gains under the previous Government, as there were under the Government previous to that, it is time that we started working with the scales of justice to show a little more equity in respect of the costs of being a victim. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EIn respect of this bill, it is important to strike a balance between the money that is required to be able to make some real gains, and what is recoverable. We heard from the previous speaker, Clayton Cosgrove, about the inconsistencies or inequities that he saw in respect of the fact that the $50 levy will be imposed on each appearance as opposed to each individual conviction. He said that some people will make on the deal because their crimes may be more serious or more prolific than those of a person who appears now and then for individual offences. The point is that in doing the research towards this bill, we found that if we aimed the levy at $50\u2014at that level of offending and at that level of recovery\u2014then we would be able to recover the maximum amount of money and do the most good with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker also made comments about the ability to help victims by taking money out of one part of the Government\u2019s Budget and putting it into another. He mentioned, for instance, the budget for independent schools, but he did not hold his hand up at all and acknowledge that the previous Government allowed a whole fleet of new independent schools but kept the cap on funding at exactly the same level, thereby dropping the budget per student for students attending those independent schools. He also failed to note that the money granted to independent schools is actually only about a quarter of what the Government gives to students attending State schools. So as far as a bang for a buck goes, the Government does very, very well out of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EGiven the parlous state of the Government\u2019s coffers when National took over government, and given the world recession that we found ourselves having to cope with, the Government needed to find new money from somewhere. So, for instance, if we look at the education budget, we see $521 million worth of promises and pledges made by the previous Government but no money left to fund them. To take accident compensation as an example\u2014because that was what the previous speaker mentioned in respect of services able to be offered by the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC), especially in respect of victims of sexual assaults\u2014we know there was well over $2 billion of debt there. At the same time we know that when that debt was discovered, 18 more entitlements were made available to the public, which cut down the money that was available through ACC. If that level of debt had not been there, and if those extra entitlements had not been pledged to the public of New Zealand, who knows how much we would have been able to do? It does not really matter, because this is the pickle that we find ourselves in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe other two or three points I will make about the previous speaker\u2019s comments are these: I find it difficult to accept time and again that he does not trust the judiciary. Time and again the previous speaker said that the judiciary will always reduce a penalty on the grounds of hardship, even though it is not allowed to, and even though it is written into legislation that it is not allowed to make allowances for the fact that reparation will be ordered or for the fact a community-based or custodial sentence may be awarded. The previous speaker, the Hon Clayton Cosgrove, does not trust the judiciary to fulfil its function according to the statutes it is charged to operate under. I believe that in the separation of powers that we have, trust is a very, very important element. He should not be so duplicitous as to speak out of both sides of his mouth in respect of the way that Parliament operates and the way the judiciary operates. I do not think that it is fair to say that in this particular forum, where the judiciary does not have the opportunity to respond; if it does, it gets caned. He should not be so hard on the judiciary, or so duplicitous in respect of the way it is operating. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f951e17494bb409d9f7643b55a4eda7f\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I regret interrupting the member, but on two occasions now he has accused a member using an unparliamentary term. It does not add to the debate, at all. I think it should be suggested to him that he withdraw and apologise for the unparliamentary remark he has made against my honourable colleague on two occasions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7ba0d3d98584980ab02ac5fbd006575\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: As I understand the Standing Orders\u2014and I am a new member\u2014the member referred to thus must object himself or herself, and that has not occurred. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295de91b74eb4485486f004cdf63f17f9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I have just consulted with the Clerk at the Table. The Clerk advises me that if a member is to withdraw and apologise on the basis of offence, it is for the member concerned to have taken offence. In this particular case, the member to whom the comments were directed was not present in the House. So then the issue is about whether it is an unparliamentary term. The term \u201Cduplicitous\u201D is a graphic term and it is a strong term, but I do not think it is necessarily offensive in itself. I will not require the member to withdraw and apologise, but I want the member to take into account that he is getting into the sensitivities of the House, and he might wish to redirect his comments from this point forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262c10b78838a4d959298a0a097587d6b\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker; I accept your counsel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I am grateful that the members of Her Majesty\u2019s loyal Opposition have seen fit to support this bill. I accept that they agree that it is proffered in good faith, in spite of their stated misgivings about the ability to recover the money and the cost of that recovery. We recognise the work that the officials from the Ministry of Justice have put into the research on this legislation. They have advised the House\u2014and it has been used many times in debate on this bill\u2014that over the next 4 years we can expect to gain $13 million net that is not currently available to victims. We trust those officials from the Ministry of Justice in the same way that the current members of Her Majesty\u2019s loyal Opposition trusted them when they happened to be Her Majesty\u2019s Government. I commend this bill to the House and I look forward to its implementation and all that it will do for victims in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u002238216da7270843e588da8a24da312bd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238216da7270843e588da8a24da312bd7\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to stand to take a call on the Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill. As Chester Borrows said, Labour will support this bill, and we do that because it does deliver something to victims of crime. But we are concerned because of the flat $50 levy that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259d021ae969541ef8adae77fc6393891\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: See if you can get through without mentioning the Sentencing Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224db6f76ec5e540119fd9fb513682c999\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much! I am a little tired of the members on the other side of the House, and in the select committee, because recently I have found that I have been intimidated every time I mention the Sentencing Council. It is bordering on bullying, and it is actually getting quite serious. But now that the member has mentioned it, I will plunge straight into talking about the cost of the Sentencing Council. This bill is actually at the cost of the Sentencing Council. I congratulate the Law Commission on all the work it did in terms of its proposals for a Sentencing Council. We know that in terms of supporting, giving clarity to, and giving some sense to, victims of crime, particularly serious crime, the Sentencing Council would have been a very, very sensible, commonsense\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edc3d74fadd44e89978d07cbd7719a51\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ve got it in the UK and it works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235b74ba4003644a3bfb37713d7a80a77\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly; it is proven in the UK. We did it: it was all set to go, but it was vehemently opposed at the time by Chris Finlayson. One of the first acts of the National Government was to get rid of the Sentencing Council, and that is really sad. The Government dealt to a very progressive action that would have delivered to victims in this country. I thank the member for the prompt, and I stand by what I have said and what I will continue to do, because I believe that it is the right of victims to expect that there will be a mechanism that provides consistency in sentencing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EAs I said, Labour is not opposing the bill, but we say that it does very little to actually assist victims of crime. It is just window dressing, and it is a shame that quite unrealistic expectations have been raised. Chester Borrows made the point that the levy would not be at the cost of reparation, but I ask members of the House to consider that point, and we have already had it acknowledged that many offenders will not be in a position to pay this levy. The worst offenders will not be paying it. The levy will be collected, once any fines or reparation have been paid. I ask members to consider that the $50 levy will obviously have to be taken into account, and it would have an effect on the money available for reparation. That is a natural consequence; when a judge is setting those sorts of costs, the offender levy is a cost. It is taking from one hand and giving to the other. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003ELabour has serious concerns about the bill, and we will monitor it very, very carefully. When the scheme was first mooted, Simon Power claimed that it would collect around $5 million a year for victims. Then he was forced to scale back that prediction to $13.6 million over the first 4 years. Then we must subtract the estimated $1.3 million\u2014if everything is collected\u2014that it would cost to set up the levy, and the estimated $1.5 million each year that it would cost to run. Suddenly we have halved the amount available for victims, again. Where is the common sense in that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213a5ac9f2c3a4b119fea5134b10af41e\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a shambles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eda6fb092c1746e6a067fca3ec1c5151\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: It is an absolute shambles. The Government\u2019s approach to the levy is the same as its philosophy with accident compensation: charge more\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202c111acfe0248ebbc20a7b02dc35918\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Being a new member, I am not quite sure how to address this point but the member has misrepresented departmental figures, because $13.6 million is actually\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022849ca5799a374f6b9d9d195e64f5de15\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order, and the member underestimates his breadth of knowledge from his time in the House. He has been through quite a number of debates and knows very well that that is a debating point and does not offend the Standing Orders. I say to him: good try, but don\u2019t do it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be177ff3074441e188e3aa13d587a237\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I would have to say that the member often overestimates his talents. The philosophy of the Government in terms of the collection of the levy is very much like its philosophy on accident compensation: pay more, get less. It is exactly the same approach: pay more money but put less into the hands of victims. I say to Simon Power that we will acknowledge that there will be some benefit to victims and that is why Labour is supporting this bill. Simon Power is on record as saying that the National Government is absolutely committed to looking after victims, so I would really appreciate it if he would sit down and talk to Nick Smith. The irony is that this bill that we are debating in the House today delivers something\u2014not a huge amount\u2014to victims, yet, on the other hand, we see Nick Smith absolutely shafting victims\u2019 rights. If this Government really cared about victims, we would not see sexual abuse victims having to go to the media or to their MP to ask for a reversal of the decision to limit accident compensation counselling for those victims. The issue we are facing with the cuts to accident compensation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221be62aa7363e4a7f95bfdc5e276b4868\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member\u2019s speech appears to be an attack on a Minister and on a subject that has absolutely nothing to do with the Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282c95bd1ef0d404680ffbb6f117e3e9f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the member that this is a third reading debate. I generally allow a pretty wide-ranging debate. The member has been, by and large, on the topic, and I am fairly liberal on this. But if the member raising the point of order wants to insist on a very strict reading of the rules and a very strict application of them, then he should expect them to be universal and apply to him as well. I would just suggest to him that before he takes another point of order along similar lines, he should check his Hansard and the Standing Orders and see how narrowly he ran down the rails on other speeches. I am not going to pull the member up, but I leave the member to be aware that the debate is on the Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226380408f9544810a533f86b82693ad7\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Assistant Speaker. I think that was very sensible advice. With the House\u2019s indulgence I would like to recap the previous Labour Government\u2019s commitment to victims. It introduced and passed the Sentencing Act 2002, which introduced a presumption in favour of reparation and resulted in that sentence being used more frequently. It introduced and passed the Victims\u2019 Rights Act 2002, which set the scene for support for victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EAs a result of the Victims\u2019 Rights Act, the proposal for a Victims Charter was announced in February 2002. The Victims Charter, which was released only in 2008, gives the ability for victims to be aware of the standard of service and support they should receive. The charter will go a long way to supporting victims of crime. I feel really proud that the charter was introduced by the previous Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI turn again to the Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill, as Mr Garrett would like me to do, and repeat that Labour supports the bill. We will not oppose any measure that gives support to victims but we would rather have seen that money spent more sensibly. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022 data-id=\u0022751e7198f3c34733bead83d66c7f8db4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022751e7198f3c34733bead83d66c7f8db4\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E It will be no surprise to members that I rise to support the Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill, despite the reservations that I have made known. But before I continue my speech, I would like to pay tribute to both the previous speaker, Lynne Pillay, and the previous Labour Government she represented, because it is indeed the case that Labour\u2019s actions in 2002\u2014specifically the Victims\u2019 Rights Act\u2014were a major departure from the common law and very, very welcome ones. It actually shocks people who are not lawyers to have explained to them that until quite recently the victim was, in fact, utterly irrelevant. According to the lofty towers in law schools, the crime had been committed against the State, and the victim just happened to be the person who was there. It is quite correct that that Labour Government made some very welcome changes in that regard, so I think that credit is well due there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EAs I have said in earlier speeches on this bill, I think it can be summed up as a great idea but with some major flaws. One of the major flaws is of course the costs and the practicalities of collecting the levy. Mr Cosgrove said, for about the fourth time, that what could be achieved here is a diversion of money from taxation, or, more specifically\u2014as he was playing to his audience\u2014a diversion of funds that go to private schools to go to victims instead. Well, that misses the point that this is an attempt, in a sense, at user-pays, is it not? It is \u201Coffender-pays\u201D. It is a levy on offenders for the wrong they have done. It is a cost to the offender and not, if you like, a cost to the rest of the taxpayers, but that point has been missed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EI believe that $50 is an entirely appropriate amount for the levy. It is the equivalent of three packets of cigarettes or a couple of slabs of beer, to use analogies that will be quite clear to the criminal fraternity. Every villain or his mate has 50 bucks in his pocket, or his mum or girlfriend can be prevailed upon to bring 50 bucks down to the court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EIt is also entirely missing the point to say that the levy is the same, regardless of the crime. Another of the Labour members referred to a triple axe-murderer. Well, fortunately, and to my knowledge of crime in New Zealand, which is not inconsiderable, I do not think we have had one of those. But a member speaking in the recent series of speeches referred to the levy being the same for murder as for assaults, and the member said that that was wrong. Again, that is missing the point. Recognising the difference in the nature and gravity of crimes is a function of the sentence. The levy is not a sentence. It is, if you like, simply a price that a person pays for being a criminal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EThe major problem, as members opposite have quite rightly pointed out, concerns collection. As a new member, in something of a flash in the head during the Committee stage, I came up with an idea that I believe would have solved the problem beautifully. The idea was that offenders would be held in custody after conviction\u2014say, after being sentenced to do 100 hours\u2019 community service\u2014until someone came up with the 50 bucks. It is much like the way in which persons who are granted bail are now held in custody while their bail bond is written up, and that may take half an hour or half a day depending on how busy the police are and what sort of a prat the offenders have made of themselves. But if we were to introduce an amendment whereby a convicted person was sentenced to a community service, let us say, and was remanded down below until someone came up with 50 bucks, I believe that compliance would be damn-near 100 percent. We could install a separate Eftpos machine down there, a cash tin, and a receipt book, and compliance costs would be virtually nil. It would take just a bit of extra police time. But in my inexperience, I did not realise that such an idea\u2014brilliant though I immodestly claim it to be\u2014had to go the rounds of all the parties and needed much more time. I approached all the parties in the House, except the Greens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b45134611d37456eb509ca8dfc053ec2\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Well, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022149c80f4536f437c818b6e43ee41b3f1\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: I did not bother to approach the Greens, because in my view, I am sad to say, they are criminal sympathisers. They have opposed every single law and order bill that has been introduced in this Parliament. Mr Locke, when speaking on the previous two bills we have debated\u2014the car-crushing bill, to use the vernacular, and the boy-racer bill, to again use the vernacular\u2014opposed them. He said in justification that it was wrong to increase the numbers in prison. Well, imprisonment is not a penalty for either of those bills. The fact is that the Greens oppose anything that calls criminals to account. On a personal level, I see that Ms Bradford is in the House. I think that I have a very cordial relationship with her, and I am sad to be saying this about her party while she is here representing it, but I believe that that is the case. Every other party I spoke to thought that it was a good idea but that it was too late in the piece. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EDespite our misgivings about the collection aspect, we support the bill. I endorse what Ms Pillay said, and I hope that she is not offended by that. Anything that helps victims has to be good. Anything that helps victims has to be an advantage, even if the collection method is not so efficient. I will confirm again what I said earlier: if the dire predictions of inefficiency made by members opposite prove to be correct, then this party will support an amendment to remedy that problem and to have the levy collected more efficiently. As I have suggested, I would be interested to hear other members\u2019 views if this comes to pass. But I cannot see how it would be less than a no-brainer to do as I have suggested, which is to install an Eftpos machine down in the cells, and to have a cash tin and a receipt book there. I believe that compliance would be close to 100 percent and collection costs would be virtually nil. With that small caveat, the ACT Party is happy to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6360e3a64a34bc891788be7de30635b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6360e3a64a34bc891788be7de30635b\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. Kia ora an\u014D t\u0101tou. As members of the House will probably be aware\u2014especially after they viewed that awesome programme that screened on M\u0101ori Television last Wednesday at about 8.30, The M\u0101ori Party: The People\u2019s Party\u2014the M\u0101ori Party is a party of the people. The programme was broadcast by that awesome television station, M\u0101ori Television.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de6816b1605b49369281f473f3f34a5a\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Set up by Labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ca5b1ab2b3549d6bafb27ef461e4cda\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: It was set up by Labour\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d55382fb3f9b446580c3a5bb41688469\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Opposed by National.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb3c21cf64ca45838f4e1d0228f37e4d\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and supported by the M\u0101ori Party and, sort of, by National. It is good to say that that issue is dead, done, and dusted, because we will be broadcasting the Rugby World Cup. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EBe that as it may, I say to Mr Hughes that the real k\u014Drero is that we kind of like to think that we are the people\u2019s party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e57d580a745f45c9848340a1cb37e969\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265609a00ce3843af9cbebdc4717cc378\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure that he would agree with that. A part of that is that we place a lot of emphasis on sending out everything that we talk about in the House, that we write, and that we think about, and we definitely ask for feedback from all of the people on our awesome email tree. Within half an hour of sending out the speech that my colleague Rahui Katene delivered during the first reading debate on the Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill in February, I received an animated email from a person called R\u0101wiri. I want to share his ideas\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6ed2a900bf64548a60117a2b6bf8a2c\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: R\u0101wiri Garrett?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1d8e8246bb34aa8be8d5674217a53e8\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014not quite\u2014as they seemed to make quite a lot of sense, as have some of the other ideas that members have spoken about thus far in this debate. R\u0101wiri asked a few basic questions: \u201CIn regards to the Act I agree with the basic concept of it but trying to police it seems like a nightmare. 1. How are they going to pay the money if they have none? 2. Is there going to be an easy system for victims to get this money (normally, there is so much bureaucracy involved) 3. Which Government department is going to handle it.\u201D That is a starting point. He went on: \u201CAt the present time I have no confidence in the justice system. Really the only way to bring down crime is to start at family level and make sure that there are decent and proper kaumatua on the Marae who can help educate the families. We all must take responsibility for the way things are not just put back onto individual families.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFor me, R\u0101wiri has summed it all up in a couple of sentences. Of course we agree with the basic premise that crime does not pay. So, as a principle, we have supported the notion that all offenders who have been convicted of a criminal offence must pay a levy of $50. It is not just the M\u0101ori Party that thinks like this. The United Nations Declaration of the Basic Principles of Justice for Victims of Crime and Abuse of Power states that offenders should, where appropriate, \u201Cmake fair restitution to victims, their families or dependants. Such restitution should include \u2026 payment for the harm or loss suffered,\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe support the concept of the levy, particularly as a way to achieve the restoration of well-being. We are particularly conscious, though, of the disproportionate likelihood that M\u0101ori and Pasifika people will be victims of crime. Among both M\u0101ori and Pacific people aged 15 years and over, 47 percent had experienced some form of criminal victimisation in 2005. This compares with 43 percent of Asians and 37 percent of Europeans. We have to ask why M\u0101ori and Pasifika people are being overrepresented in the status of victimhood. According to the 2008 social report from which these statistics emerge, it is due to an association with many factors, such as M\u0101ori and Pasifika people being more likely to be young, to be unemployed, to be sole parents, and to live in more socioeconomically deprived areas. Probably the most disturbing fact of all was that for M\u0101ori women, the risk of being assaulted or threatened by a partner was three times the average\u2014that is, 18 percent compared with 6 percent for all other respondents. So there are some pretty serious reasons why we want to look seriously at supporting this levy, and therefore, in effect, supporting victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe are a party that has often talked about restorative justice and the expectation that offenders will be required to take responsibility for addressing the harm their offending has caused. We want offenders to be held to account. As in a lot of this, the M\u0101ori Party has been involved in the establishment of the Youth Court sitting at Manurewa Marae in Auckland. It is an initiative that itself has gone on to be extended out to a judicially-led initiative from Gisborne. Marae-based Youth Court sittings involve the wider community in an attempt to enhance the usual Youth Court processes. They are designed to increase accountability and, in the end, to reduce reoffending. I have to say that I am in full support of the statement made by Principal Youth Court Judge Andrew Becroft earlier this year that court-ordered mentoring, compulsory education, and attendance at parenting programmes may succeed if the programmes are culturally appropriate and meet the ongoing needs of the offenders and their family and wh\u0101nau. The important thing to the M\u0101ori Party has always been to ensure that the victims and, indeed, the offenders, are connected to wh\u0101nau and have the support of their community around them to heal, to restore their sense of confidence, and to forgo the temptation to reoffend. We know that M\u0101ori are overrepresented as the victims of crime and, as such, need to be able to have a role in determining the approved agency and its service priorities and delivery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESo although we agree in principle with the concept that victims must be supported, there are still some questions such as those R\u0101wiri posed a little bit earlier. In short, these concerns are, first, that the cost of administering the scheme may make it unworkable; second, the impact the levy will have on the current reparation system; third, that the system deals only with victims\u2019 access to services and not real financial support and compensation for victims of serious crime, especially if they cannot access accident compensation; and fourth, of course, the long-term implications for accident compensation and whether this initiative in effect opens the door for privatisation. We wonder too whether the crime tax being imposed by this legislation might end up with minor offenders paying for those at the high end of the criminal spectrum. In other words, low-level offenders may end up subsidising the fund for serious offenders sentenced to jail, who would be unlikely to pay the levy. To us, that seems rather unfair. The proof, of course, will be all in the implementation. Will this bill end up just adding to the number of so many uncollected court fines? How will the agencies address the practicalities of collecting and distributing the levy, and can we be assured that the administration costs justify this? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFinally, I referred to Judge Becroft earlier in my speech. One other idea that I thought was rather sensible was his analysis that because all but one of the orders available to the Youth Court are not considered convictions, young people who are dealt with wholly in the Youth Court are excluded from the requirement to pay the levy. This exclusion is consistent with the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families Act 1989, which limits the ability of the Youth Court to impose financial penalties on young people or their families. These provisions recognise that although payments to victims can be a powerful restorative tool, many young people appearing before the court, or their parents, are unlikely to have the means to pay a fine or reparation, and any subsequent default could extend their involvement with the court in a way that is at odds with other attempts at rehabilitation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI absolutely support these measures. Of course we do not want our children and families to suffer financial penalties, and of course we do not want to extend their time in front of the court. But I guess that yet again it raises the issue for me of how we encourage our young people to consider their roles and responsibilities. It is about facing up to the consequences of their actions and restoring to ourselves a sense of collective responsibility. This is a very complex area of legislation, but we fully support this bill at its third reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00223bbc0dc5663d4cdd9a7415def7da3bdb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bbc0dc5663d4cdd9a7415def7da3bdb\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E It is very good to follow Te Ururoa Flavell in this debate on the Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill. He made some very perceptive comments about victims and the sociology of victims. As he made clear, and as the statistics and the research show, victims more than often are not, if we can put this in graphic terms, the little old lady who is worried about crime. I suppose that the cruel irony is that crime more often happens to the young, seemingly invincible M\u0101ori male who thinks that crime will not happen to him, but that is where crime is at. The young, the poor, and the dispossessed are the victims of crime much more often. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EIt is good to talk on this bill, which is very much about victims and putting victims back at the centre of our justice system. Previously, in other parts of the debate on this bill, I have talked about the very real benefits that what we are doing here will have for victims of crime. It will mean travel to and from court, and that is not insubstantial. It will potentially mean replacing clothing that had to be sent off for DNA testing. It will mean counselling. These things will make a real difference to the victims of crime. This bill is part of a bigger picture. It is a piece of the puzzle in what we and the Minister, Simon Power, are doing in the justice arena. We are toughening up law and order. We have put through a raft of bills as part of our initial 100-day programme. We have toughened up the bail law, sentencing laws, and aspects of parole. But what we are also doing, and what should not go unnoticed, is that we are putting the victims back at the centre of the justice system. We are not just all about offenders. We are also doing something for those on the other side of the coin\u2014the victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI can think of a number of people who came before the Justice and Electoral Committee, and also the Law and Order Committee, who have been victims of crime who very much feel that they have not been part of the justice system and that they have not been listened to. In our society, the system we have is the \u201CQueen v Smith\u201D, not \u201CSmith v Smith\u201D. It is the Crown that brings a case. What that means is that often victims do not have control of the case, and rightly so because there may be cases where witnesses are reluctant but it is still right and proper for the Crown to bring the case. This bill illustrates that we are hearing what is being said at select committees. We are bringing victims back in. We are trying to do things to make it better for them to ameliorate the conditions in which they find themselves when crime occurs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ESome of the points made by members opposite are, at first blush, fair, but when analysed they do not hold much weight. One of the things that Clayton Cosgrove said is that judges will be dishonest about this and that they will say: \u201CWell, we have got this $50 levy, so because of that we will reduce all the other fines and reparation.\u201D I do not believe that is true at all. I think that judges will be much more true to their oath than that. They will read this bill and see quite clearly the intent of Parliament, and this $50 levy will not be taken into consideration when they look at other financial penalties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EAnother thing that has quite frequently come out from members on the other side of the House is that it is not right that this levy is per offender rather than per offence. I say two things in relation to that. Firstly, if it were per offence, we would have a ridiculous situation where, for example, an offender coming before the court with 100 burglaries would attract exceptionally large penalties. That would be unworkable. Secondly, and this is a significant point, this levy is not a sentence. It is not about punishing the offender; it is about doing something for the victim. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI come back to the points I have already made. This bill is a plank in our justice armoury and in our agenda on justice. It is very much about putting victims back at the centre of the justice system, where they belong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022b189f38359274585855b66a806818c57\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b189f38359274585855b66a806818c57\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Before I start I want to go back to something that Mr Borrows said earlier about how the National Government has come up with this Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill based on research. I say to Mr Borrows that I find that really interesting. I would love to see that research, because I do not believe that we have seen it yet. The fact that the National Government is basing something on research is in complete contrast to what it has done with everything else. I say to Mr Borrows that I would like to see that research if he has it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ELabour members are not opposed to this bill, but we believe that it will do very little to assist victims of crime. That is our major issue with it. Just like much of the National Government\u2019s other legislation, this is window dressing. It is another example of the National Government\u2019s ploy to give ordinary New Zealanders the impression that it is taking extreme steps to tackle law and order, extreme steps to protect victims, and extreme steps to enforce punitive measures to punish criminals, but it is all a farce. The word for this Government is farcical. It has bought into the idea that perception is everything, and in the process of creating this perception of being tough on crime it has brought to the House a series of bills that, although not harmful, will do little to help reduce crime, to protect New Zealanders, and to compensate and care for victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe National Government has raised unrealistic expectations in the public about what it will deliver through this bill. Victims of crime are destined to be disappointed. The legislation sets out a $50 levy that will apply automatically when an offender has been sentenced in criminal jurisdictions. No matter which way we look at this, we see that it is quite a shambles. There are questions that have to be asked: what is the likelihood of these sentenced offenders paying the levy; will the cost of the bureaucracy required to enforce and collect this levy outweigh the benefits to the actual victim; and will the money collected to provide any level of assistance to the victim, let alone any adequate level of assistance, be enough?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d981a417f1a34e7ca8dbb1eac19d8499\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s hard to put passion into the standard rhetoric you\u2019ve been given, isn\u2019t it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222788980532d24cac972e0ce26ef671a3\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: The bill provides nothing more than lip service\u2014just like that member over there, Mr Quinn\u2014to the victims, and represents gross Government hypocrisy given the cutbacks to accident compensation entitlements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fbcfddd878f4d429c1ec8b6a86079b5\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s the problem when you don\u2019t write your own speeches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faa7a05db53d4d05a7984e39a6c219cb\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: The member over there is going on and on. I know that he finds it difficult to stand up without yelling, but I can speak calmly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIf the Government really cared about victims, it would not be attempting to make sexual abuse victims have to go to the media or an MP to reverse Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) decisions to limit their counselling. An earlier speaker commented that this was not related. Well, it is related. When we look at the legislation that this Government is proposing, we have to look at the entirety of it. We have to look at what it is trying to do on one hand while here it is trying to do something else on the other hand. At the end of the day, we are seeing a contradiction. So it is relevant and it is something that the public needs to be aware of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWith regards to accident compensation, we have recently seen a Taranaki grandmother of two young boys who had been raped, sodomised, and beaten being forced to go to the media and to her local MP, Jonathan Young, to beg for counselling. The ACC-approved counsellors said that the boys needed counselling and the police said that they needed counselling, but ACC turned them down. It seems the new step in the procedures could be trial by media or MPs, and that is something that this National Government has imposed on the public. Because this Government has been sitting on its hands, there are 1,100 cases pending of people needing sexual abuse counselling. If this Government really cared about victims, it would not be cutting the entitlements that families of suicide victims currently receive. Does this sound like a Government that cares about victims: \u201CIf my doctor told me that I was terminally ill and had 30 days to live, with the ACC rules the way they are, I\u2019d be finding myself a train to throw myself under on the 29th day because my family would be treated so much more generously.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230548dd165df48c795e437ea826be37b\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Who wrote this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb6a658185954032b8659eccc1aa4730\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I say to Ms Tolley that I did not write that; it was her colleague Nick Smith, and I ask her to remember that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe reality for victims is that this approach is getting worse, not better. It is astounding that Simon Power can keep a straight face when he says that the negative impact of crime on victims is a priority for this Government. National made a big deal in the election year of being on the side of victims. This bill, which levies all offenders regardless of their offence, has a paltry $50 as the upshot. The worst offenders who get jail sentences will be unable to pay the levy anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbf6cea892c044fc9fc017e08f5ed617\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, we\u2019ve got back to the bill!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af00eb617e5b4bfd8c91fa3062b3be52\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister Anne Tolley is going on again about what I am saying, but if someone wrote her speeches she would be much better off than standing up and making them up for herself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThis offender levy scheme will require a bureaucracy to administer it, and the collection costs are likely to outweigh the returns. Simon Power claimed that the scheme would collect about $5 million a year for victims, and then he was forced to scale back to predictions of $13.6 over the next 4 years\u2014very different from the $5 million a year for victims he initially claimed. When we subtract the estimated $1.3 million that it will cost to set up the levy, and the estimated $1.5 million it will cost to run, suddenly we have half the amount available for victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIt is already difficult enough to collect reparations from criminals, so we on this side of the House struggle to comprehend why the National Government thinks that it will be any easier to collect this levy. It is unfair to victims of crime to raise expectations of greater compensation when National members know the reality is that this will make absolutely no difference. It was revealed in the Ministry of Justice document Structure of Operations in the Ministry: Proposals for Consultation that people who owe the offender levy will be grouped based on their willingness and ability to pay and their attitude towards compliance. The Government is prepared to tolerate targeting only those most likely to pay, while hardcore fine-defaulters are let off the hook. Even National\u2019s Minister of Corrections and Minister of Police herself, Judith Collins, has admitted that fines for crime do not work. She stated: \u201CThere\u2019s no point fining people who don\u2019t pay fines when you\u2019ve got other action to take.\u201D Again, that was one of National\u2019s own Ministers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIncreasing victims\u2019 rights is about restoring some fairness to an unfair situation, but this scheme will lack the consistency to deliver that. It would be unfair if the amount of compensation varied from year to year depending on the ability of the Ministry of Justice to collect revenue from offenders. Labour had already asked the Law Commission to look into the best options for setting up a proper victims\u2019 compensation scheme to ensure that the inequalities and inefficiencies in National\u2019s scheme could be avoided. By disregarding the Law Commission\u2019s advice, National has delivered New Zealanders a substandard scheme. We on this side think that it would be more effective to give the money it would take to set up this bureaucracy to an organisation like Victim Support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI want to briefly discuss the Labour view on the issue at hand. Labour members of the Justice and Electoral Committee support increased funding for victims of serious crime. On that basis they support the bill, but with reservations. They noted that funding for the scheme is at the cost of the disestablishment of the Sentencing Council, which would have improved the justice system by delivering consistency with sentencing. Further, they expressed concerns about the high administration costs of the scheme and the possibility that the levy could detrimentally affect reparation payments. The Labour members of the committee stated very clearly that they intend to closely monitor the effectiveness of this scheme, and that is what members on this side of the House will be doing. We support this bill for the reason that although it does not help, it also does not harm. We have been pushed into a corner, and, therefore, we support the bill. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u00225ae77848f2f44c15bcef3d04a60d180c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ae77848f2f44c15bcef3d04a60d180c\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E The previous speaker, Carmel Sepuloni, questioned what this Government is doing for law and order. This Government promised that it would implement an increase of 600 police officers in New Zealand, of which 300 would be deployed in South Auckland, and that has been implemented. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill applies a $50 levy on offenders. The bill amends the Sentencing Act 2002, and provides that all offenders who have been convicted of an offence must pay an offender levy of $50. The $50 levy will be imposed on all offenders at the point of sentencing. It is intended to help pay victims\u2019 expenses not covered by ordinary State assistance, such as travel to and from court. The levy will be in addition to any other penalty imposed by the courts. There have been many submissions from the public, and I would like to mention one in particular\u2014the submission of Judy Ashton from Nelson. Her 20-year-old daughter was killed by a drug addict and disqualified driver who was on parole and was on a police witness protection programme. She commented that there is absolutely nothing that could compensate her for her daughter\u2019s death, but nevertheless she supports this bill. In her words: \u201CI have a vision that one day the victims of the crime will be truly recognised, and regardless of their assets or income they will not be left financially disadvantaged by the crime that was forced upon them.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe Government wants to eliminate the all too frequent horror stories that victims are forced to relive, which are traumatic simply because the system has been deficient and has let them down and it seems that offenders are getting better deals than the victims. Like all of our law and order policies, the victims\u2019 compensation scheme\u2019s overreaching objectives are to ensure there are fewer victims of crime in New Zealand. This levy is set at a rate that most would agree is too low to compensate victims. There is no argument about that, particularly for the victims of the most serious crimes. But it is an important first step towards reinforcing the focus of our justice system on to the needs of the victims. It should be noted that the Government will also be introducing other measures to improve the services that the victims receive and to enhance victims\u2019 rights. In other words, it is part of a bigger package. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd606fbac81242989a911e6dca92fde1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd606fbac81242989a911e6dca92fde1\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Classic Tory tokenism\u2014that is what I say about this bill. Although Labour will support this bill, because indeed it does no harm, the question must be put to the House, and I guess to the people of New Zealand, that after spending all this money, going through the whole process, and considering all these issues, has it been worth it? I guess we will find out in a year or two\u2019s time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ba217a9f9d648e2b41a3b6704f9f593\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: In 4 years\u2019 time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227852e1d8f97c4cf0aee1896853d03cd7\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. In 2 years\u2019 time I think we will make a judgment, and so too will the people of New Zealand. We will see what happens then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe terrible reality is that crime creates unfairness. There is no way of avoiding that reality. Whatever crime it is, an injustice occurs. Someone is the perpetrator of that injustice, and the other person or persons are usually the victims. It is Parliament\u2019s role and responsibility to reduce the unfairness of those crimes and the unfairness across this nation. What will happen when a crime is committed? Usually our good police catch people at an increasing rate\u2014well, under a Labour Government they used to do that. Thanks to Minister King and effort, focus, and encouragement, the police caught criminals at an increasing rate. They were then taken through the courts, and were convicted if they had committed the crime. The same process will continue, but when all criminals are convicted, a $50 levy will be imposed on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe question must be about whether we are reducing the unfairness of the process. As I have travelled around this country, and as I have been an MP, the biggest issue of unfairness relating to crime has been the issue of inconsistency in sentencing. People cannot understand how in one part of the country there will be a sentence for a certain crime, and in another part of the country there will be a different sentence for the same crime. So the Labour Government brought in the Sentencing Council, and that was the single biggest initiative to reduce unfairness from crime. Victims felt that if a convicted criminal received a lesser sentence, then that was a huge unfairness, and it reflected poorly on them. But this present Government has said that it will do away with the Sentencing Council because it is not important, and that it will set up a bureaucracy to charge every convicted criminal $50, which will address the issue of unfairness. Well, that is tokenism, and I am sure that Mr Deputy Speaker could understand that if he had the opportunity to say so. But the fact that the Tory Government has disbanded the Sentencing Council, the single most important\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fad5b46e23f47519874d0a823dcd3ed\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: It never started.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bfa0699cfcd41ad9b33cbd9f25dd338\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Power knows that. He knows that the Sentencing Council was the best initiative in terms of addressing unfairness in crime in this country, but he was forced to disband it because of ideology. I know that Simon Power agreed with having the Sentencing Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe $50 levy will now be a significant step forward in addressing unfairness in crime. Let us look at some of the costs. It will cost $1.3 million to set up this bureaucracy\u2014this from a Government that says it is reducing bureaucracy. It will then spend $1.5 million a year to run the bureaucracy. Again, this is from a Government that claims to be reducing bureaucracy. How much will the Government get? The claim is about $5 million a year or, closer to estimates, just over $13 million over 4 years. I will let the House or the National members do the arithmetic on that. That is not delivering good value for money for victims, in terms of either this Parliament or the Government\u2019s efforts in bureaucracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ELet us then look at those this levy will be collected from. The reality is that there has been an obligation in the justice system for some time to pay reparation. It is one of the things that the Labour Government brought in, in a genuine attempt\u2014not tokenism, like the Tories\u2014to take from those criminals some money to pay back to their victims. But we realise that, as with unpaid fines, it is sometimes very hard to extract money from criminals, for a whole lot of reasons. Many criminals do not have money, for a start\u2014that is why they have committed the crimes\u2014and some are just very pigheaded, have good lawyers, or whatever. But there are tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars\u2014in fact, I am not sure what the last count is\u2014in unpaid fines throughout this country, so we are therefore going to impose a $50 levy on every convicted criminal. This is big progress for the National Government and for Mr Power! No doubt it is his greatest claim to fame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ELet us have a look at those we will collect that levy from, and whether it will be possible to collect it. The Ministry of Justice itself says that it will be taking money from people who owe the offender levy. I quote from a document: \u201CPeople who owe the offender levy will be grouped, based on their willingness and ability to pay, and their attitude towards compliance.\u201D So those criminals who are convicted and charged a $50 levy, and who say they would like to pay the levy, will no doubt, pay it. But the Ministry of Justice will group together those who do not want to pay, and say that some criminals are in the too-hard basket and that it will not take the levy from them. Yet some are in the easy basket and it will take it from them. That will create more unfairness in the justice system, not less.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThere is some honesty coming from the Minister of Corrections; this happens only infrequently. But she said\u2014and she should have spoken to Mr Power before he set up this legislation\u2014\u201CThere\u2019s no point fining people who don\u2019t pay fines when you\u2019ve got other action to take.\u201D We know that the Ministry of Justice will not follow up on those token fines and levies, so that again creates an unfairness in the system when, in fact, the Government claims that it is trying to help victims. This is typical Tory tokenism, and that is true of most of the legislation and many of the people on the Government side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI will now go to an organisation comprising a learned set of gentlemen and ladies, the Law Commission. Let us just see what the commission said about this levy. Mr Power obviously did not listen to the Law Commission when he should have\u2014that is, when he was drafting this legislation. The Law Commission report states: \u201CThere would be particular difficulties with imposing levies on persons who have been sentenced to long-term imprisonment.\u201D There is no surprise there. The report continues: \u201CMoreover, the non-payment rate of small levies imposed on all offenders would probably be so high that the administration cost of enforcement would exceed the amount collected.\u201D Well, if we are starting off with best projections that $5 million will be collected, and that it will cost $1.3 million to set up the scheme and $1.5 million to run it, there is not much margin for leeway there. I say that within a year\u2014certainly within 2 years, when the Opposition will be checking the Government on all of these facts and figures before the next election\u2014the Government will be in a negative situation regarding this levy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI will talk about the other issue of unfairness in relation to those who will end up paying the levy, and I quote again from the Law Commission report: \u201CIf levies of the same amount were imposed on all offenders, that would raise proportionality issues \u2026\u201D. As my good learned colleague Clayton Cosgrove asked, how can anyone justify charging the same levy on a multiple murderer as on someone who might have been involved in some low-level property crime? I continue by quoting the Law Commission: \u201Cwhy should an offender convicted of a very minor offence without any direct victim at all pay the same amount as an offender convicted of rape or wounding with intent to commit grievous bodily harm?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe Labour Opposition will support this legislation, but I have to say that we do so reluctantly, because in my summation this legislation, which was paid for by the removal of the Sentencing Council, will create more unfairness in the justice system than we have seen before. This Government ignored the wisdom of the Sentencing Council, and closed it down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb5c5bb55d34414aa04c284e92d04b42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb5c5bb55d34414aa04c284e92d04b42\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank goodness the debate on the Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill, which has gone through three readings and a Committee stage, has not finished on such a poor note, and that I have the pleasure of winding up the debate on this fantastic legislation. This bill continues to lock into place the law and order policies of this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003EI do not intend to speak for too long; I just want to cover three areas. I will briefly touch on the mechanism of submissions and, to put the record straight, I will also cover the economics of the scheme. Firstly, for the information of members opposite, I will deal with the submissions because, clearly, they were asleep, doing other things, or distracted during the select committee process. There were 13 submissions on this bill. There were six in support, two were opposed, and four were neutral but offered enhancements. I will provide members opposite\u2014particularly the last speaker\u2014with the range of organisations that supported this bill. There was, of course, the Sensible Sentencing Trust, the National Council of Women of New Zealand fully supported it, and the Human Rights Commission strongly supported it. Then, of course, we had the submissions referred to by my colleague Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi, who shared with the House the heartfelt submission of Judy Ashton. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003EContrary to the impression given by the Opposition, there is absolutely no doubt that the public are overwhelmingly in support of this legislation. What does the bill do? It imposes a $50 levy on all convicted offenders at sentencing, either in the District Court or the High Court. The Opposition has scoffed at what it terms an incidental figure. The fact of the matter is that the purpose of this levy is to pay some money to assist the victims of crime. It is just a start in a process, which will add to other reparations made by the court and other mechanisms that the outstanding Minister of Justice canvassed in his opening speech on the third reading. He talked about the types of support that this Government is giving to the victims of crime. The revenue generated from this $50 levy will be used to support that fund. So that there is no doubt, I want it recorded that the projected net positive revenue from this scheme is $13.6 million after 4 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206d799aa8fd240f2addcfa39bc3419f9\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Minus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a69535698bf4abd9bcce7a65b87440a\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. I have the figures here in my hand, in a document dated 10 June. Net revenue equals gross revenue minus the expenditure. I know that is difficult for Opposition members to understand. They cannot read cash-flow statements, they cannot read profit and loss accounts, and, in fact, they probably do not know what a profit and loss account means. The profit and loss accounts from this process say that there will be $13.6 million in net revenue after 4 years. Where the members opposite have been getting their figures from I just do not know. They have probably made them up, as they always do. I say to members, let the record show that this is cash-flow positive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003EI will also say that the officials, who did an outstanding job, advised us that current reparation collection rates are at 15 percent. This is based on what the courts order and what comes in. The officials anticipate the courts being able to collect this levy at a 60 percent collection rate, in a worst-case scenario, which means that the victims of crime will receive much more assistance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003EThe last thing I will mention, which I was not going to cover but Damien raised it again and it was Lynne Pillay\u2019s favourite, is the Sentencing Council. All I can say to the previous speaker is that the council never started. This Government is much more interested in creating a fair and just system that assists victims of crime, rather than setting up gravy trains for the Labour Party\u2019s old boy network. They will not have a retirement process. Members opposite probably would have elevated Sir Geoffrey Palmer and Warren Young, retired them to the Sentencing Council, and they would have sat on the gravy train for the rest of their lives. With those few concluding remarks, it gives me great pleasure to have the final word on this outstanding bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e7695d3970c6445ca13a77bc3a3d8d57\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 113\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d3691adc74d544b7a508e900c33de39d\u0022\u003EDomestic Violence (Enhancing Safety) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022260e8f0556204d77b9766f94b0186d0e\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227e45e7a7507c4bc7a2b0fbc6fad61fa0\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Domestic Violence Act 1995\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002284ada0dd52934ddf945925b2d4e1a6c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284ada0dd52934ddf945925b2d4e1a6c1\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The debate on this part includes the schedule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u00221ee88627adf44c96b6a84e148c6c4b6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ee88627adf44c96b6a84e148c6c4b6e\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to stand and take a call on the Domestic Violence (Enhancing Safety) Bill. I will get the negative stuff over first and say from the outset that we in Labour were a little disappointed that this bill went only part of the way to picking up Labour\u2019s Domestic Violence Reform Bill. Our preference would have been to see National take over that bill and progress it through the House. That has not been the case, but I stand and speak in support of this bill. I know that it goes a long way to addressing many of the concerns around domestic violence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EPart 1, which amends the Domestic Violence Act, will ensure that there is more protection for women\u2014although not in every instance, it is predominantly women and families in the case of domestic violence\u2014at the crucial time when there is considerable heat in the situation and it is essential that the offending party is off the premises and away from the family. I note that in terms of new section 49, \u201COffence to contravene protection order\u201D, and new section 49A, \u201COffence to fail to comply with direction\u201D, in clause 5, the changes are sensible. They are common-sense changes. Certainly, as I said before, they go a considerable way towards enhancing protection for women and families in domestic violence situations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EWe all know that domestic violence is an absolute blot on this country\u2019s landscape. The previous Labour Government put considerable resource, time, and energy into this issue. It worked with non-governmental organisations to tackle the causes of domestic violence, to provide education around domestic violence, and to raise awareness to ensure that people in this situation get the support and the protection that they so much deserve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI am taking only a short call on this bill currently, but I am very pleased to be speaking on it. This bill will get the support of all members of the Committee, I assume, and I think that is commendable. At the very heart of the matter is protection for families who are subjected to violence and actions that no human being\u2014and, in particular, no child\u2014should be subject to. I am very pleased to speak in support of the bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u002216c18c6b5c0b41c99d9fbca415021770\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216c18c6b5c0b41c99d9fbca415021770\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member Lynne Pillay for her comments on the Domestic Violence (Enhancing Safety) Bill. She is aware that since this bill was introduced to the House, a second bill that deals with some of the other issues that she refers to\u2014plus another matter, which will enable us to ratify an international instrument in respect of one particular matter\u2014has been tabled. Some issues remain with regard to the current legislation, to which the member refers, and that is why the second bill, the Domestic Violence Reform Bill, remains on the Order Paper. I assure her that I am doing my best to work my way through the remaining issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EBroadly speaking, this bill is a piece of work that I started on about 2\u00BD years ago with some staff with whom I was working at the time while in Opposition. I am pleased that the bill has made the progress that it has to date, and I hope that towards the end of the evening, before we adjourn the House, we may make some more progress on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EPart 1 amends the Domestic Violence Act 1995 by inserting new Part 6A, which provides for the police safety order initiative. In brief, the provisions provide the police with the power to issue a police safety order when called to a domestic dispute if they are unable to arrest the alleged violent person. Part 1 also amends the offence provisions. Firstly, it removes the tiered penalty structure for the offence of contravening a protection order, while retaining the current maximum penalty of a term of imprisonment of up to 2 years. That was actually quite an important signal to send in the Part 1 provisions. Secondly, it separates out the offence of failing to attend a programme as directed, and retains the current penalty of up to 6 months\u2019 imprisonment or of a fine not exceeding $5,000. That continues to give emphasis to the importance of participating in the programmes emphasised in this legislation. Section 50(2) of the Domestic Violence Act, which requires an arresting officer to consider certain criteria before arresting a person who he or she suspects has breached a protection order, is also repealed. Repealing those criteria aligns the principal Act with section 315 of the Crimes Act 1961, which permits arrest without a warrant where there is good cause to suspect that an offence has been committed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThe Justice and Electoral Committee made a number of changes to Part 1 to provide more explicit provisions around the law enforcement and court processes associated with the police safety orders. I thank the committee for that work; I think it added to the bill and has made it a more whole piece of legislation. Supplementary Order Paper 72 in my name consists of several technical amendments to Part 1, and I hope the Committee of the whole House will see its way to supporting them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002268728722f3be4a18839eeae93d6d30db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268728722f3be4a18839eeae93d6d30db\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call on Part 1 of the Domestic Violence (Enhancing Safety) Bill. I thought I might take this opportunity to go over briefly some of the more substantive changes that the Justice and Electoral Committee made, which the Minister of Justice referred to. But before I do, I highlight again what a considerable advance this legislation is. That is, of course, originally thanks to the drafting by the then Labour Government, but I also congratulate the Minister on taking on this legislation. I am sure at some point in the third reading we might go into it in a little more detail. Some of those additional pieces could perhaps be expanded on, although, as the Minister has mentioned, they have been put into the new legislation. There are still parts of Labour\u2019s legislation we would like to see acted upon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThis legislation is a very new type of tool for police to add to their tool kit in preventing domestic violence. I want to highlight that this tool is intended to be a preventive measure, but with that come some difficulties. Of course, we are asking the police to intervene, in many cases, before a crime has occurred. The Police Association came forward and suggested in the select committee discussion that, for instance, some of the penalties for breaching a police order should be heftier than what had been proposed. We had to put back to them that we needed to weigh up the consideration of the fact that, in the first instance, a crime had not yet occurred, and that some of the association\u2019s suggestions may be considered disproportionate. That was a balance that I think the select committee has struck in what it has produced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe first change that I want to touch on briefly is in respect of some words that were either changed or removed. I think that that was in order to aid the police in making a decision as to whether a police order is required. The select committee tried to have a very practical discussion with officials about the kinds of practical situations police officers may find themselves in, so that we could ensure that we were not adding any words unnecessarily that may prevent police officers issuing orders where it might be extremely useful. One word was \u201Cimmediate\u201D. We recommended the removal of the condition that an order be issued only if necessary to safeguard the immediate safety of the person. That was on the basis that at any one point in time when a police officer arrives at a house, there may be a period where the dispute may seem slightly more settled, but that may not be the case a few hours after the fact. We wanted to give maximum flexibility to the police in that regard. The other word was \u201Cserious\u201D. Proposed new section 124B(2) of the Domestic Violence Act sets out the matters to which the constable must have regard when considering whether to issue an order. One matter was whether there was a serious likelihood that domestic violence might be used. We felt that the word \u201Cserious\u201D was quite imprecise, so we recommended removing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI will touch on two other issues. The committee rightly picked up on the fact that, when a police officer is called out originally, the criterion was that a constable could award an order if there was a view that that person had not committed crime significant enough for an arrest. We considered that there might be another offence that may have occurred in that environment or in that home to cause the person\u2019s arrest, which might be completely unrelated to domestic violence, but that there might be reason enough to suspect that a safety order might be useful. We wanted to ensure that, even if an arrest had occurred, a safety order could be used as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAnother issue I will touch on briefly relates to who could award an order. We determined that it would be worthwhile to clarify that a constable who is not a qualified constable must receive authorisation from a qualified constable. That was specifically to take into account the fact that in a rural environment someone may not have reached the required bar in order to issue an order, but may be the only person available on the scene at that time to do so. We wanted to give not only maximum flexibility but also oversight to those situations. We considered that it would be appropriate that that may occur via telephone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u002229211eaf58c84630a856244757daaf07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229211eaf58c84630a856244757daaf07\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E It is a privilege to speak in this debate in support of the Domestic Violence (Enhancing Safety) Bill. As the bill went through the select committee process, it enjoyed the goodwill of members on all sides of the Justice and Electoral Committee table. We had a number of very positive submissions from the public in respect of this bill, and only one or two were against it. Those submissions seemed to be from a partisan view of the proceedings of the Family Court, rather than against the bill itself. We made a number of changes around process to take account of, for instance\u2014as the previous speaker, Jacinda Ardern, mentioned\u2014the difficulties for those in rural areas of accessing legal counsel. The days available to obtain a formal protection order whilst the police safety order endured was lengthened slightly. There were some concerns around just how that would fit at certain times of the year\u2014for instance, over the Easter period or over the Christmas period\u2014and I think that those are valid concerns. We will have to see how that runs. There were also concerns in respect of an enhancement made to the bill to allow police who preferred prosecution out of certain circumstances to be able to bring a safety order there as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EOne other aspect of the debate within the select committee process that was very interesting was the submissions made by groups in support of women as victims of family violence. One group suggested that the protection orders should not be able to be put in place by a court on sentencing, because it took away the power of the victim to have some self-determination in respect of her\u2014it is usually \u201Cher\u201D\u2014own circumstances. It was interesting to note that the exact opposite suggestion was submitted for exactly the same reasons. Other groups in support of women came before the committee and suggested that courts should be able to make these orders without any consultation with the victim, or despite their not wanting them, because women who are oppressed in these relationships are frequently unable to make those decisions and choices of their own volition. In the end, we allowed the courts to impose a protection order at sentencing, because we felt it was in the best interests of the people involved in the centre of these disputes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI finish by thanking those who were involved in the select committee process. I am thankful for the spirit in which we engaged together, for the good result we ended up with, and for the enhancement of confidence in the parliamentary process, given the result we had in preparing this bill for the House. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00225d9f18270122406dbdbf2b1394f5ed97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d9f18270122406dbdbf2b1394f5ed97\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I will begin by acknowledging the member who has just resumed his seat. Not only was that a considered contribution to this very important debate but also I understand that he was very well regarded as chair of the committee, not just in the way he dealt with other members of the committee but also in the way he dealt with submitters, and I acknowledge him for that. I am not likely to do that often, given his current political affiliation, but when it is warranted I certainly will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274452306aca24aaa83aabc752882bbcb\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022970db2e783324acbad927d98086ee6e6\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. When he moves on from that position, we never know what might happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the Hon Annette King, who put a huge amount of work into preparing the Domestic Violence Reform Bill, and also all the officials who worked so hard, not just with Annette King when she was Minister, but also with community organisations up and down the country, to make sure that that bill had really strong input from people who knew the outcome they wanted. There is no debate about the outcome that is required, but these issues are not always as straightforward as they seem. The bill that Annette King introduced to the House was the result of widespread community consultation, and that is the point that I want the Minister to reflect on before he takes the next call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI will add that it was one of the few pieces of legislation that went to the cross-party family violence prevention group, which had every single party in Parliament, tragically with the exception of National, represented on it. That cross-party group looked at various options in terms of enhancing safety in the home, and supported the progress of the bill. It certainly is not often that we have people like Heather Roy, Tariana Turia, Sue Bradford, and Judy Turner in the room together, all working on one cause with a great deal of passion and commitment. I regret that National left the group and did not come back, because it was an opportunity that was lost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe original bill came forward with a lot of support from both outside and within this Parliament. Part of the bill that I am referring to, the Domestic Violence Reform Bill, has been picked up by the Minister Simon Power and I acknowledge his commitment. I have no doubt about his personal commitment to enhancing safety in the home, and I acknowledge that, as well. But I find it quite puzzling that despite him introducing a second bill, there are still quite important issues from the original Domestic Violence Reform Bill that have been omitted. Frankly, if we have an opportunity as a Parliament to make our homes safer for everyone, and particularly for women and children, why would we throw away that chance? That is the question I want the Minister to answer. There was a bill already before Parliament that had majority support in this House, without doubt. There may have been some small parts of it that could have been debated, but I doubt even that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe Minister went to all the trouble of introducing his own bill, which took part of that original bill, and sent it to select committee, and then went to another lot of bother to introduce a second bill. Still he missed out four quite important parts of the original domestic violence reform legislation. Why would anyone want to reduce safety by taking away some of the key elements? That is what I would like the Minister to answer, because it seriously is a puzzle to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EMy colleague Jacinda Ardern outlined some of the concerns that were raised both by members of the select committee and by submitters to it. I want to proceed with asking the Minister directly for his views on the four points that have been omitted in both pieces of legislation, and that were in the original Domestic Violence Reform Bill. The first omission is changing the definition of a child, from under 17 years of age to under 18 years of age, in the Domestic Violence Act. Obviously, that would give us compliance with the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, and that is a good thing. It does not improve anyone\u2019s safety, but it is always good to sign up to United Nations conventions when we can and when it makes sense for our nation. It also would align the domestic violence legislation with the Care of Children Act. It is very puzzling that a Minister who is generally regarded as having quite a lot of rigour, showing attention to detail, and common sense would waive the opportunity to make a very straightforward move aligning the domestic violence legislation with the Care of Children Act; it puzzles me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe second omission was the decision that has specifically been made to not require reasons to be given in writing when a without notice application for a protection order is declined by a judge. To the best of my knowledge, there has been no explanation from the Government as to why it specifically made the decision not to proceed with including that provision in the legislation. Again, this is something that was worked through by experts in the field, by people who are survivors of domestic violence, and by people who support them to move from being a victim to being a survivor. It was worked through with the police and the Ministry of Justice\u2014the people who know what they are talking about. This was the advice that was given to us; we took it from the best sources. But the Minister said: \u201CNo, I\u2019m not going to do that.\u201D Once again, it is a big puzzle and I would like the Minister to take what will be one of the last chances to explain that second puzzle to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe third omission from the original legislation was the decision not to introduce information sessions. That is contrary to all the evidence around the fact that protection is best given in a situation where an individual knows how he or she can access support, and that person also understands the nature of the threat that he or she may be faced with in the future. That message does not seem to be understood by the Government, even though people in our country die at the hands of partners who often have quite recently professed to love them. They have been frightened and they did not understand what may happen to them. Information sessions are a critical part of enhancing an individual\u2019s safety. We literally have people in our nation killed, and we may have an opportunity to enhance the safety of someone who could be in that situation tonight. I know the Minister is committed to that aim. I cannot understand why he took that information session provision out of the original legislation, because once again it was on best advice that that was included. I hope that this is not a political party issue. I am sure that every single member in this House wants to enhance the safety of individuals, particularly within their own homes. Once again, I ask the Minister whether he could please explain to the Committee why he did not take the advice that Labour was given when in Government to include those information sessions as part of the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe fourth point is the Government\u2019s specific decision not to introduce funded addiction treatment services and, again, that is despite overwhelming evidence about the association between domestic violence and drug and alcohol abuse. I cannot fathom why that specific recommendation has been taken out. It is a huge contributor to enhancing safety, not only in the home but also in our broader community. In my view, it is not too late for the Minister to say that he has changed his mind and introduce some amendments. Labour would support those particular provisions being put back in the legislation. The Minister is able to provide Supplementary Order Papers at a moment\u2019s notice. He has the advantage of having some extraordinarily competent officials on hand. They may well have those amendments drafted, just in case the Minister decides that the best evidence is worth taking and that doing every single thing we can to enhance safety in the home is worth pursuing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EDespite those omissions, the parts of the Hon Annette King\u2019s legislation that the Minister has taken on board are very good. I hope they achieve the aims that we all share, to ensure that fewer children, fewer women, and fewer men are harmed by those who should give them the security and the love that they deserve within their own homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u002267423997576b4d8ebe69caf67c2ce8de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267423997576b4d8ebe69caf67c2ce8de\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E I start by acknowledging what the previous speaker, Ruth Dyson, said, particularly in relation to Chester Borrows. He has done an exceptionally fine job of chairing the Justice and Electoral Committee through its consideration of the Domestic Violence (Enhancing Safety) Bill. I agree with what Chester Borrows said: all the members of the select committee\u2014whether they were from Labour, the Greens, or National\u2014entered into a spirit of cooperation that was very good to see. It was this Parliament and the select committee process working at its finest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI also agreed when Ruth Dyson said that every member of this Committee wants to do his or her bit to enhance the safety of victims and potential victims of domestic violence. In fact, we want to do what we can to ensure people do not become victims. The Minister of Justice acknowledged that there is more work to do, which he and his ministry are working on. This bill is a response to a serious issue, and, in respect of the Minister, I think we are seeing a fine response. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EBefore talking very briefly about the response, I say that I am sure no one doubts the severity of the problem. I agreed with Lynne Pillay when she said that domestic violence is a blot on our society. We think of the very high-profile cases, the children like Nia Glassie and the wives and spouses who are badly beaten. But, of course, it is also clear that domestic violence can be rather more banal than those headline cases. With 80,000 domestic violence call-outs for police every year, no one can be in any doubt that this issue needs a response from this Parliament. As I said, it has been a privilege to be part of the team under Minister Simon Power that worked on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWhat does the bill do? Well, it does many things. It deals with the penalty provisions for failure to attend a programme, and so on. There are a number of specific provisions, but perhaps the key part is that it allows for on-the-spot protection orders for up to 5 days in situations where police may not have sufficient evidence to charge then and there\u2014although they may get it eventually\u2014but it is quite clear that the situation is bad, is serious, and needs to be dealt with. In other words, this bill allows for immediate safety to come first. It empowers the police and gives them the tools to ensure that immediate safety comes first. I do not think anyone in this Chamber could disagree with that. I look forward to taking a call in the third reading debate of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 72 in the name of the Hon Simon Power to Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bcd0608960e246539cb6ddbf9882b7af\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to Sentencing Act 2002\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u00229480ac45d1c644f78fcae74721afd244\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229480ac45d1c644f78fcae74721afd244\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to stand again and speak on the Domestic Violence (Enhancing Safety) Bill. I was a bit remiss in my first speech, so I will now also add my compliments to Chester Borrows for his excellent chairing of the Justice and Electoral Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI will also take this opportunity to acknowledge the submitters. They include the people who work at the coalface in the many organisations who came and gave submissions. They did so because they are very, very committed to providing protection for victims of domestic violence. I not only acknowledge the submissions that they gave but also the work that they do on a day-to-day basis. I know that it makes a real difference to the lives of, predominantly, women and children in New Zealand, and I am very proud to acknowledge that in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge the victims of domestic violence who made submissions. I believe, and I am sure that all members will agree with me, that that is a very brave action to take for people who have already been through very, very difficult situations, situations more painful than anyone in this Chamber can contemplate. For them to be able to come to the select committee and share their stories in a very meaningful way assisted us in our deliberations, and that was a very, very brave thing for them to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EAgain, I acknowledge the Hon Ruth Dyson and the points that she made in terms of the bill\u2019s shortcomings, or in terms of what is missing from this bill. I acknowledge that another bill is following this one, but if we look at the domestic violence statistics, every hour is an hour too long. Every day is, by far, too long. That is why I am pleased that we are debating this bill under urgency. Let us get this bill through; let us get this bill into effect as soon as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI will also talk about a couple of issues in Part 2, particularly those relating to the amendment to the Sentencing Act. We spent quite some time considering the effects of the protection order, and I am really pleased with one of the amendments that we made to new section 123D, to be inserted in the Sentencing Act by clause 9. The section states: \u201COn making a protection order, the Judge or Registrar must explain to the offender\u2014\u201D. The initial draft of the bill talked about the effect and the consequences in a couple of lines, but select committee members discussed quite extensively how important it is in this situation that offenders understand what is required of them with regard to the protection order. It is not just the order that is important but also the direction to attend a programme that will assist offenders\u2014well, we certainly hope so\u2014to address their violence and the consequences if they fail to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EWhere there is an order that offenders are required to attend a programme and they fail to do so, there will be consequences arising from that. I believe that that is a very sensible amendment. That direction is about protection and safety in the immediate instance, and also about looking forward and ensuring that offenders take responsibility for their actions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u0022d23a4d1739864a1ea89a1381c41b065e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d23a4d1739864a1ea89a1381c41b065e\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member Lynne Pillay for her contribution to the debate on the Domestic Violence (Enhancing Safety) Bill. A few johnny-come-latelys, though, are contributing to this discussion in the Committee stage. I myself have been an affiliate member of the Chester Borrows fan club for some time. Now everybody else seems to be rushing to the party during the Committee of the whole House to pledge their allegiance to Mr Borrows. I tell members of the Committee that I have been a fan of Mr Borrows for longer than most members, and I would appreciate it if there was more historic depth to their analysis of his contribution on this particular issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EPart 2 of the bill amends the Sentencing Act 2002. It provides that when an offender is convicted of a domestic violence - related offence, the court may make a final protection order against the offender if it is satisfied that the making of the order is necessary for the protection of the victim and the victim does not object. When making the protection order, the court must explain to the offender the effect of the order and of any direction to attend a programme. Any protection order issued by the criminal courts is referred to the Family Court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThe Justice and Electoral Committee made two amendments to Part 2. Ms Pillay made reference, I believe, to one of those. The first is to delete new section 123B(1)(c), inserted by clause 9. That amendment clarifies that the criminal courts may make a protection order regardless of whether the victim has applied for one in the Family Court. That is a critical step and one that the committee should be applauded for taking. The second amendment is to new section 123D, also inserted by clause 9, and it requires the court to explain to an offender the effect of a protection order and the consequences of failure to comply with it. The court must also explain to the offender the effect of the court\u2019s direction to attend a stopping violence programme and the consequences of failure to attend any such programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00228bb06f7bc2d44868bd41ce7665e8a5ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bb06f7bc2d44868bd41ce7665e8a5ce\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to speak on Part 2 of the Domestic Violence (Enhancing Safety) Bill. Part 2 focuses on the amendments made to the Sentencing Act, and the Minister in the chair, Simon Power, has already rightly pointed out the most significant changes that were made by the Justice and Electoral Committee. When considering this part I want to expand a little bit on the process that the select committee went through in determining those changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI think at the heart of this bill is the overall objective to streamline the process that a victim, in particular, may go through when using our justice system to obtain a protection order. There was one thing that I think came through quite clearly during the submission process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ef2f3593e7a450fa775eb7fc0f4a11b\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Before the break I was talking about one of the primary objectives of this bill, which is to improve access by victims to such things as protection orders. When the Justice and Electoral Committee was considering one of the clauses in Part 2, it occurred to us that we could improve that objective if we allowed a court to order a protection order when it was considering a case, even if it was not the court to which a particular application had been made. In the end, we considered that a sentencing court should not be precluded from making a protection order if it considered that the protection order was necessary for the protection of the victim of the offence. We made that change after careful consideration and after hearing submissions made by, for instance, Family Court judges. It was a well considered and appropriate change to make. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThere are only two other aspects of Part 2 that I wish to draw attention to. One is new section 123D, which requires that after the issuing of a protection order, a judge or registrar must explain to the offender the effect of that order. That change was based on submissions made by the Family Court, which pointed out the rate of non-compliance with some of these orders. It was the view of the select committee that we should do everything we can to ensure that orders for individuals to attend programmes to stop violence, for instance, should be enhanced in any way available to us. I think there is still more we can do in that particular area. It struck me during our consideration of the bill that, although we were using all the tools available through legislation, the surrounding areas\u2014the support programmes and community networks aimed both at victims and at turning round the behaviour of offenders\u2014perhaps needed the greater attention of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe final point I will briefly talk to relates to consent for protection orders. The select committee had some discussion about the issue of consent in issuing a protection order. We had considered that very same issue in relation to the awarding of police safety orders. The committee decided, rightly so, that these were quite different tools. A police safety order is a short-term order that is intended to diffuse very heated situations and prevent violence from occurring. Women\u2019s Refuge, after seeing how those orders work in Australia, agreed that applying them without consent appeared to be of value to victims, who would acknowledge that after the fact. Of course, the reason then that we thought police safety orders should be able to be applied without consent was that it gave victims time and space to consider whether they wished to apply for a full protection order. A protection order has many larger, longer-term ramifications than a police safety order. In order for protection orders to work in the long term, I believe they require the buy-in of victims, which is why we have, in the end, rightly differentiated between those two forms of protection for victims or potential victims of domestic violence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThose are the main aspects of the amendments to the Sentencing Act that I wish to draw the Committee\u2019s attention to. I look forward to discussing further in the Committee stage the amendments to the Bail Act, and to the third reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022afc59fd5967e4b1387c3ab173d65ff5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afc59fd5967e4b1387c3ab173d65ff5c\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I am looking forward to hearing the Minister of Justice, the Hon Simon Power, take a brief call. I encourage him to do so because he still has not addressed the questions I raised earlier in the debate on the Domestic Violence (Enhancing Safety) Bill, and those same questions apply to Part 2, which we are now debating. I heard the earlier contribution from the Minister and I thought that it was considered in the main. Some parts of it were quite amusing, especially the Chester Borrows fan club section of his contribution, but I have serious questions. The Minister is well regarded for taking issues from whatever political party as seriously as they are presented to him. So I say to him, quite directly, that I am still puzzled about the Government\u2019s reasons for omitting four quite important sections from the Hon Annette King\u2019s Domestic Violence Reform Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI will refresh the Minister\u2019s memory from the earlier debate. The application of this bill to the Sentencing Act will be very well known to him; he will be familiar with the Sentencing Act, I am sure, and he will understand how the four points I raise apply to Part 2. These are provisions that the Hon Annette King included in the Domestic Violence Reform Bill. That legislation was well consulted around the country and had overwhelming support from the experts and key players in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EFour provisions of that bill have been omitted from this bill. The first omission is that this bill does not change the definition of a child from a person who is under 17 years of age to a person who is under 18 years of age. The definition in the Domestic Violence Act, as noted in new section 123A of the Sentencing Act, inserted by clause 9, still applies. The opportunity to align this legislation with the Care of Children Act should have been irresistible. The proposed provision made sense and had wide-ranging support, but the Minister decided to leave it out. That makes no sense, at all. The second omission \u2014again, a specific decision made by the Minister\u2014is that this bill does not require a judge to give reasons in writing when he or she declines a without-notice application for a protection order. That was not an oversight; it was a deliberate, specific decision that was signed off by the Minister. From my perspective, it is extremely puzzling. The Minister has made no attempt to explain why the decision was made to omit that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe third omission is that this bill does not introduce information sessions. In my earlier contribution, I explained the importance of that aspect in the protection of women, in particular, who do not necessarily understand the relationship they are in and the different tack it can take. It is very hard for people who have not been in a violent relationship to understand how a person can still live with somebody who is violent with him or her. An information session is critical for people in their understanding of their relationships and in being able to determine key risk factors for the future. The fourth omission is that this bill does not introduce funded addiction treatment services, despite overwhelming evidence about the association between domestic violence and drug and alcohol abuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI know that we are in urgency and that the Government is under a huge amount of pressure from the extensive legislative timetable it has ahead of it, but I consider that the Committee would benefit hugely if the Minister were to spend 5 minutes of his time explaining what he has against those four provisions of the Domestic Violence Reform Bill\u2014and it is still on the Order Paper\u2014that have been omitted not just from this bill but also from the related bill that the Minister introduced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThose provisions should be in this bill; those amendments should be consistent with the provisions of the reform bill. The Minister did not need to pass over the Hon Annette King\u2019s bill. He could have short-cut all the systems and just put his name on it. He must have a good reason not to give those protections to women and children who, right now, right at this very minute as we debate this bill, are living in dangerous situations. Why has the Minister not taken that chance? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EPart 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dba7300bc5dd457bbe29de5393a99400\u0022\u003ESchedule\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000865\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 72 in the name of the Hon Simon Power to omit the schedule and substitute a new schedule be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000866\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000867\u0022\u003ESchedule as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e58f207543494182be7a4a507d5412d9\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u00223469532d8a934cdab2742913926881b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223469532d8a934cdab2742913926881b1\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The commencement clauses contained in clauses 1 and 2 of the Domestic Violence (Enhancing Safety) Bill relating to revised offence provisions, the new provision on arrest without a warrant, and the amendments to the Bail Act will come into force immediately following this bill\u2019s assent. Proposed new Part 6A of the Domestic Violence Act, which concerns the police safety orders and is to be inserted by clause 7 of the bill, and the amendments to the Sentencing Act 2002 that are made by Part 2 of the bill and enable the criminal courts to make protection orders, will come into force on 1 July 2010. The additional time allowed before those proposals come into force will allow for the development of processes and for system changes and training to be completed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EIn respect of the matters that have been raised by the Hon Ruth Dyson, I will take a moment to address those, because they are fair questions. The first reassurance that I want to give the member and the Committee of the whole House is that, in respect of the domestic protection orders, we were keen to move that part of the legislation that was previously on the Order Paper swiftly, which is why it was introduced and extracted from the remaining legislation. The second bill that was introduced to the House, which we are debating now, was introduced, in a way, to cover some of the issues that have been raised by the member in her first contribution to the debate on Part 1, but particularly because I was keen to see a particular international instrument taken care of as part of this bill. I reassure the member that the reason the original bill is still on the Order Paper today, and will remain on the Order Paper, is that those matters she has raised are still under active consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00224ac512a713df4aa5bee1ad29d05c1369\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ac512a713df4aa5bee1ad29d05c1369\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will talk briefly to the title and commencement clauses, because there was some discussion at the Justice and Electoral Committee when the bill was referred to it as the Domestic Violence (Enhancing Safety) Bill. The Minister originally set out that the legislation would come into force only on the date to be appointed by the Governor-General by Order in Council. That was not satisfactory to the committee. The view was that the legislation should be time-bound, which eventually was the case, with provisions coming into force on 1 July 2010.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EOf course, those provisions will still affect only a particular group of people, as set out in Part 3, which talks about the amendments to the Bail Act. We have already considered that children, for instance, are defined as being those aged up to the age of 17, as described by the Domestic Violence Act. Regardless of when this bill comes into force, because of its drafting there is a significant group of young people who some of us on this side of the Chamber consider will be neglected by this bill. I look forward to expanding on that issue in my speech during the third reading debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe Committee divided the bill into the Domestic Violence Amendment Bill, the Sentencing Amendment Bill (No 2), and the Bail Amendment Bill (No 2), pursuant to Supplementary Order Paper 71.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224cf3943ddf8c4ce5ba7ccd0eb9277621\u0022\u003EDomestic Violence Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224cf3943ddf8c4ce5ba7ccd0eb9277621\u0022\u003ESentencing Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224cf3943ddf8c4ce5ba7ccd0eb9277621\u0022\u003EBail Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002203fc51295df541b8bc75c262d80094a9\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u002233b4486f819d4cfa87686deaa0171508\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233b4486f819d4cfa87686deaa0171508\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Domestic Violence Amendment Bill, the Sentencing Amendment Bill (No 2), and the Bail Amendment Bill (No 2) be now read a third time. This was some of the first legislation to be introduced by the National-led Government, and it is particularly important to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EIn less than a year this Government has made important legislative inroads into dealing with the impact of family violence on New Zealand families. New Zealand has a comprehensive set of laws designed to protect women, children, and men from violence in the home, yet we continue to have high rates of family violence. For example, the police currently record approximately 86,000 family violence events in a year, of which approximately half involve offences. Family violence also has a negative intergenerational effect. Children socialised within a violent environment are not as well equipped to adapt to and adopt positive lifestyles, and may go on to become the subject of violence within their adult relationships. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThis legislation aims to strengthen the responsiveness of criminal justice agencies to victims of domestic violence through amendments to the Domestic Violence Act 1995, the Sentencing Act 2002, and the Bail Act 2000. The most significant amendment is made by the Domestic Violence Amendment Bill to the Domestic Violence Act 1995, and is the introduction of police safety orders. Issuing a police safety order addresses the immediate safety of victims by removing the alleged violent person from the home for a period of up to 5 days. The police will issue the orders in situations where there is an insufficient basis to arrest, but where they believe there is a likelihood of domestic violence occurring and an order is necessary for the safety of the victim. The orders will provide a period of safety in which victims can consider their future options, including the possibility of a court protection order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EAn important feature of the Sentencing Amendment Bill (No 2) is the proposal to amend the Sentencing Act 2002 to enable the criminal courts to issue a protection order on behalf of the victim in cases where an offender is sentenced for a domestic violence offence. Both of these provisions will be enacted from 1 July 2010 to allow police and the courts time to develop operational processes and undertake training. This will ensure a smooth transition from the legislation to day-to-day policing practice and court management of domestic violence matters. The other provisions come into force on enactment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThe Domestic Violence Amendment Bill amends the offence provisions in the Domestic Violence Act by removing the two-tiered penalty structure for breaches of protection orders, leaving only the maximum penalty of a term of imprisonment not exceeding 2 years. The legislation also provides a penalty of up to 6 months\u2019 imprisonment for the specific offence of failing to attend a court-ordered programme. Further, the legislation repeals the statutory criteria that police have to take into account when considering whether to arrest without warrant a person who they suspect has contravened a protection order. This means that the approach taken by police will be the same as for any other offence when an arrest without warrant is being considered. The Bail Amendment Bill (No 2) amends provisions in the Bail Act 2000 to allow the police to impose any conditions considered reasonably necessary to protect any particular person residing with the victim, such as children, new partners, or elderly parents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EOverall, I believe this legislation will provide useful tools in expediting the response of the criminal justice sector to domestic violence. The police safety orders will provide immediate protection for the victim, while making it very clear to the person who has allegedly committed the violence that his or her behaviour will not be tolerated. Similarly, I expect that the number of protection orders that are made each year will increase as offenders sentenced for domestic violence offences are also issued with protection orders. This Government\u2019s commitment to dealing with family violence is further supported by the introduction of the Child and Family Protection Bill, which picks up on proposals that centre on child welfare and the issue of reconciling the Domestic Violence Act and the Care of Children Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EAt this point I acknowledge Labour\u2019s efforts in this area prior to the last election. I acknowledge in particular the work that was done by the Hon Annette King. For whatever reason, the legislation was not able to be advanced prior to the general election, but these bills are an important continuance of cross bench support of these sorts of measures. I also acknowledge the contributions made during each reading and the Committee stage by Lynne Pillay, the Hon Ruth Dyson, and Jacinda Ardern, who have taken these issues and asked questions that are significant in the context of this work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EWe know that for a significant number of victims of violence the most dangerous place they can be is in their own home. As I said in my first reading speech, we cannot legislate away behaviour when it is driven by broader social attitudes that will shift only over time. However, the way in which agencies respond to family violence can save lives and reduce the number of victims. This legislation is predicated on the belief that there is still more that can be done to protect victims of family violence and help prevent them from becoming just another statistic, and I urge the House to watch this space. I am particularly proud to have worked on this legislation during the course of the early days of this Government, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u002233498c446a1044cc8ca22783313a7781\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233498c446a1044cc8ca22783313a7781\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Along with Simon Power, I say it is actually a pleasure to stand and speak in the third reading of this legislation. Putting aside the issue of process and what occurred when Labour was in Government, which pre-empted this debate, I think there has been a complete meeting of minds and hearts over a matter that is very dear to all of us: the protection of women and families in their own homes. We know that if we do not have safety, a community that is aware, and safeguards for people who are in an unsafe position, then we end up with some very, very dysfunctional situations. We end up with a society and with communities that, even if they are not directly affected by the senseless, horrible acts of violence, are affected emotionally by them. People are drawn in emotionally by the empathy that they feel for victims. I think that has been a key driver in terms of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI acknowledge again, with regard to situations of domestic violence, that I dream of the time\u2014and I am sure others join me in this\u2014when there is no need for this sort of legislation and for actions such as the issuing of police safety orders and protection orders, because we have a safe society where everyone is valued, and where it is accepted without argument that violence is unacceptable. I do not think it will be in any of our times in this House. We are not there yet. What is really important about this legislation is that there needs to be, in a time of violence, in a time of anxiety, fear, and anger\u2014all of those things\u2014a way to defuse the situation when the police arrive at the scene, and a way to remove the offender from the scene. All too often, in the past, we have seen that it is usually the case that the women and children need to find somewhere else to go. They need to move. They need to uproot themselves and take themselves away from their homes to a safe environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI think this bill takes a far more sensible, commonsense approach. This is about us saying that people have the right to be safe in their homes, and if there is a person there who is stopping that from happening and subjecting them to violence, then that situation has to be fixed, and fixed the way that is the least disruptive and the least heart-rending to the victim. That is why the police safety orders are very sensible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThe members of the Justice and Electoral Committee all know that we spent quite some time on looking at whether the police safety orders should be for 3 days, 5 days, or more than that, and at whether public holidays should be counted, or weekends\u2014all of those things. I am really proud that the committee considered those things very carefully, and I acknowledge all the really careful advice that we had from officials. I think we can all put our hands on our hearts and know that a period of up to 5 days\u2014and I stress \u201Cup to\u201D\u2014is the most sensible approach. What does that do? It certainly does not allow time for victims to be healed and move on, in any real sense of the expression, but it does allow them to be able to gather their thoughts from the horror of it all and, in many instances, to organise themselves to take moves to get the support that they need. That support could be a myriad of different things. It could be working with agencies who care for victims and who offer them a lot of advice. Obviously, in a violent situation a victim who is looking at the interests of children is in a really vulnerable situation. It is very hard to actually think about what one should do in a very sensible, methodical way. That is simply very, very difficult. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThe period of 5 days provides a little time for victims to gather their thoughts and then to go through the due process. That may be going for a protection order, but I would hope it would always entail having support from the agencies who work very hard to support victims in that situation. I think that the work they do is imperative for that to occur. It is about saying to victims that they are in a safe place for 5 days, and they have the ability to ensure that they are always in a safe place. It may mean going through processes that their heads are not completely geared up to going through, but if they do so they can be assured of a safe situation, not just for 5 days but into the future. Victims need to be told that, by the way, agencies are also there to help them and assist them in rehabilitating themselves, in getting to feel well in terms of their self-esteem, and in ensuring their children are safe, etc. I look upon the period of 5 days as the buying of time, and not just time but safe time. It is a time of safety, a time of being free not only from violence but from threats and from fear. It is a time for victims to gather their family support and the support of agencies to make very important decisions about where they go to from there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI think it is very timely that this measure is happening at the moment. I am really proud that we have seen a lot of campaigns in our communities. I acknowledge our community in Waitakere, Violence Free Waitakere, the council, the mayor, and every organisation that is absolutely committed to saying to people, to our communities, to our families, and to people that violence in the home is not OK. Violence is not OK anyway, but if there is any place where people should think they have the complete, unfettered right to be safe and secure, where else is it if not in their own home? I am really pleased that we are at this point now. I know that it will not be very long before this legislation is passed, and that is very, very good. I have acknowledged the staff who have worked on it. I have acknowledged, in earlier speeches, the role that the Minister in the chair, the Hon Simon Power, played, and I am not going to go into that again, because I think he is feeling quite overwhelmed by the accolades that he is receiving. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI think there have been times when our society, and when people in our history, have not taken the issue of violence properly. I remember that when I was a child, violence was not discussed openly. Often people thought there was a problem family or that things were happening. I feel really proud that we are now at a point, whether it is within legislation or within our communities, where we have lifted expectations to the extent where sometimes, if victims in that situation are not able to say \u201CIt is not OK.\u201D, then a lot of other people are able to say \u201CThis is not OK. You are not safe, and you deserve better than this. You deserve to have safety and security.\u201D This legislation goes some way towards ensuring that. I look forward, as the Minister said, to further legislation being enacted in this area. It would have been good to do it in one package, but that did not happen. Looking towards the future, if there is urgency again, which seems to be a bit of a common procedure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0e47fa954ae47eea4fdeb22cb4748bd\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Normalcy it is now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bdf1f6401bf4bbea653ca66d803dcd4\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Normalcy! But I would urge the Government to recognise that this is an issue that warrants it pushing legislation through on as fast as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI am really happy to commend this legislation to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00225584d37d559c489ea7d7563b6bc9382c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225584d37d559c489ea7d7563b6bc9382c\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E It is great to be part of a Government that is taking a lead on the issue of family violence, and also to be part of a Parliament where parties across the House take the issue seriously. As a result of this legislation, significant hurdles will be put into the cycle of violence. As a person who has worked a lot with families who are suffering from violence within the home, I know that it is a sad truth that within violent homes we teach our boys how to be violent to their women, and we teach our women in many cases that their role in life is to put up with violence and to endure it as best they can\u2014that that is their lot. So it is good to see a roadblock come up in the legislation dealing with violence. It will be a significant hurdle to the cycle of violence being perpetuated through the generations, and that is a good thing. This legislation is about breaking that cycle of violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EIt is also about empowering the vulnerable. The vulnerable in our community, particularly women and children, need protection. Over time they often get into a situation where they are unable to protect themselves, make themselves safe, or create and maintain a safe environment for those they love.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThere have been a number of lessons that I think we have picked up on, and there are a number of challenges for those out in the community in respect of this legislation, too. One of my concerns, and one of the concerns of the Justice and Electoral Committee, is the lack of availability of lawyers operating within the legal aid area, especially in rural and provincial towns. Five days is not a heck of a long time to be able, firstly, to come to terms with the situation that has arisen, to gain some advice or some support from those we would normally rely on to provide that to get us through, and then to identify, locate, and get an appointment with a solicitor\u2014and at the back of people\u2019s minds, frequently, is the cost; people wonder how they will pay for it. So there needs to be a significant stepping up of community groups that people turn to for support, help, advice, and information on family violence. The legal fraternity also needs to step up and to make themselves available in a timely way so that they can help people who turn to them in times of need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI talked briefly about education; I will talk a little bit more about that. The It\u2019s Not OK campaign is confronting us on our televisions on a nightly basis, and that is a good thing. But similar campaigns in the past have got a bit wobbly and fallen over. After families have been through the cycle of violence on a couple of occasions and have taken steps to address it\u2014maybe they have reported the matter to the police, and maybe charges have emanated from that\u2014the cost to the family becomes quite significant in terms of loss of income, loss of support, and loss of parental support. So getting people to report a third and fourth incident becomes quite difficult, when the lessons are not learnt by the perpetrators on the first and second occasions. There needs to be some more education amongst our community, so that 6, 12, or 18 months down the track, violence is still not seen as OK, and to make sure that this particular campaign does not go the way that, for instance, the \u201CIt\u2019s Not Just a Domestic\u201D campaign went in the early 1990s. That campaign saw a fairly steep rise in the reporting of domestic violence, but it then tailed off as the same families decided that it was too big a disruption. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EAnother point in respect of education that was made during the select committee process was the need for training of police officers who attend the scene of domestic violence crimes. One of the big pluses of the police strategy on domestic violence in the last few years has been to have attending police treat the scene of domestic violence as a crime scene: they photograph the scene, seize exhibits, freeze the scene, and do a proper investigation, in order to substantiate charges that may come from the incident. But it was noted before the select committee that there was a little gap in some of that learning in respect of deciding at the scene who the primary offender is and who the primary victim is. Often the person who is most composed and most calm is actually the perpetrator of the violence, because the violence has not been done to them. For an attending police officer, the most reasonable person to speak to at the scene of the crime is the offender, not the victim. The whole disempowerment scenario and regimen that goes along with domestic violence kicks in, and can, in some circumstances, pull the wool over the eyes of the not-so-experienced attending police officer. So there is a real need for extra training for attending staff so that they understand the dynamics of a situation that they move into and can take action against the correct party. That need was flagged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EOne of the final points I will make is about the ability of the District Court when sentencing people who have been arrested for family violence incidents to issue a final protection order, which after the initial imposition in the District Court would fall back to the Family Court for, for instance, appeal or later amendment. When we look at this, we have to wonder why it has taken us so long. Historically, in the late 1980s, we became very rights-focused in this country. We had quite a long way to go in respect of rights, so we saw some very big changes. But through the early to late 1990s and into the 2000s we moved too far away from the responsibility aspect. Now we have come to a time when the community is seeing a need for us to be a little bit more interventionist. The implications of standing back and being too mindful of rights, and not being cognisant enough of the responsibilities that go with living in this free and democratic society have hit home in Parliament, if I can use that phrase. It is very timely that that has happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EIt is a relatively new experience for me, being new to Government and not having been in the House all that long, to see my fingerprints at least a little bit\u2014and we know that success has many fathers\u2014on legislation that has come through our select committee process and is being passed through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EWhat a privilege it is to know, as the previous speaker Lynne Pillay said, that we have done the business, and that we are leaving the place just a little bit better than it was when we found it. It is a privilege to be a member of Parliament\u2014a privilege that fewer than a thousand people within our country\u2019s history have experienced. It is something that I am sure all members of the House take very seriously. It is quite a proud moment to be able to see that this legislation will make life a little bit better for quite a number of people in this country. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00222dbd0367d70d4721b12089183fa8d5c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222dbd0367d70d4721b12089183fa8d5c8\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I do not think it is really necessary to reiterate the importance of the legislation, the third readings of which we are now discussing tonight. We have heard consistently throughout contributions from both sides of the House that domestic and family violence contribute to 80,000 recorded events per year, and, of course, there is the role that violence plays in homicides and\u2014as the Minister of Justice rightly pointed out\u2014in intergenerational family violence. Labour saw it, Labour recognised it, and Labour crafted the original version of the legislation. The National Government had the good sense to further that legislation in some form or another. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThere are perhaps two significant changes that the Government chose to make to the legislation. The first change extends the period that a police safety order covers\u2014from Labour\u2019s initial proposal of 72 hours to a period of 5 days. I have to say that having heard the submissions from various community organisations and from those in the law enforcement community, I feel content that we have struck the right balance in the legislation with the extension to 5 days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe second significant change is what was omitted from the legislation. The Government had an opportunity to create comprehensive legislation but it reneged. Minister Power talked to us about the Government\u2019s Child and Family Protection Bill, but it is in no way as comprehensive as the previous omnibus Domestic Violence Reform Bill, which was introduced by the Hon Annette King. I will spend some time going over the changes omitted and the opportunities lost, in the same way that my colleagues have done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe Minister briefly addressed the House on that particular question. He told us the amendments that were removed by the Government were still under active consideration. I question what there was to consider. From my perspective the evidence was clear, the submissions and feedback from community groups were clear, so I cannot see where the debate lay on those clauses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EFor the benefit of my colleagues across the House, I will go over four of the most significant changes. The first was the Government\u2019s lack of recognition of the fact that we continue to neglect our obligations under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child in the definition of children in our legislation. The Government has already used the opportunity in its Child and Family Protection Bill to fulfil another international obligation but has ignored our obligations under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child when it comes to the definition of children. We had the opportunity to further protect children through the amendments made to the Bail Act that allow us to put conditions that would enable children in violent domestic and family relationships to be protected. I do not understand what the harm in doing that would have been. Perhaps there is a political point the Minister would like to share with us about the wider ramifications for our youth justice system, which I would also debate him on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe second aspect of the legislation introduced by Labour that was removed was access to funded addiction treatment programmes. Again, I do not understand why the Minister chose to not address that in this legislation. It was a perfect opportunity. Perhaps we would not have to put the House under urgency to consider it in another piece of legislation. It could have been moved into this one. It would have been a very efficient way to deal with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe already know, via the evidence, that if we look in isolation at tools for the police, we miss an opportunity to address the contributors to domestic violence. The evidence suggests that alcohol and drugs are huge contributors to domestic violence, in the same way that they are contributors to youth crime. Again, that is something that this House must continue to work on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe third aspect is application without notice for a protection order, which I think fitted fundamentally within the objectives of the legislation. As much as the Minister may choose, instead of listening to these points, to give tips to his colleague Simon Bridges on how to bat back the points made by the Opposition, he may wish to consider why it would not have been more efficient to put that provision in this legislation. If we had already established the evidence, if we had already consulted the community, if all those major, significant organisations had said that this was the way to go, why did we not proceed? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe fourth aspect was about information sessions for protected persons. We already had looked at, in a sense, an iteration of this in the existing legislation. If we explain to offenders about protection orders and alcohol, and the ramifications of those, and the requirements for them to attend stopping violence programmes, why do we not give information sessions for protected persons? There is no reason why that should have been delayed for active consideration by this Government, when there already was an aspect of it in the legislation. I would be interested to hear Simon Bridges tell us why explaining to a victim the nature of the threats he or she faces and where he or she can get support is a bad idea. I look forward to hearing the members from the National side of the House explain to me why those aspects did not deserve to be in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe must acknowledge in this House that the arm of the State, the tools for law enforcement, are just a small part of the wider solution and preventive measures that we must put in place to tackle domestic violence\u2014they are a small part. We must look more broadly, if we are to really tackle the contributors to domestic violence and the support networks required for the victims of domestic violence. We must look beyond tools for law enforcement and tools for use simply within our justice process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI am pleased the Government has put forward this legislation and progressed it through the House. I am pleased that the Minister has acknowledged and demonstrated his awareness of the importance of this issue, but I think we have a lost opportunity here. I am very willing and open to congratulate the Government in the future if those four aspects are progressed in this House. But I am disappointed that they were not progressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u00220c0fb1f53ff647f7be522ea3d8dc6a38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c0fb1f53ff647f7be522ea3d8dc6a38\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I do not intend to take up very much time of the House. I will just reiterate the support of the Green Party for this proposed legislation, as we had conveyed in the first and second readings. We think this legislation is a good example of the success of the Justice and Electoral Committee in operation. It worked well and harmoniously. In fact, it is good to see the House united on an issue as important as this one, and I take the opportunity to join in the congratulations to the chair, Chester Borrows, not just on the way in which he handled this legislation but on the way in which he handles all issues before the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThe Green Party has shared the concern articulated by the Opposition pertaining to some of the omissions in the legislation, particularly the four that were cited. There is no point in reiterating what they are; I think we have internalised them very acutely by now. Whether it is an opportunity lost, or simply an opportunity deferred, will prove to be a matter for the future. I would offer the personal view that I am quite confident that the Minister of Justice will, in his very capable way, address those omissions in the future. We will certainly be looking forward to seeing that in legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ELet me conclude with a more philosophical point, if I may, in response essentially to comments made by one of our colleagues from ACT during the debate on earlier bills\u2014I think the Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill and the Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill\u2014where, I think that Mr Garrett, looking through a glass darkly, concluded that the Green Party somehow sympathises with criminals. It is just worth noting in passing, by way of clarification, that of course we are not sympathising with criminality per se, at all. The difference between the Green Party and ACT in that respect is that we do not have a policy that stresses punitive justice. We have a policy of restorative justice. Where we confront these issues at the margin, we may well have differences of view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThere is quite a broad commonality running through all parties in this House when it comes to handling law and order and crime. But our philosophy is that it is equally important to understand the social causes of crime, as in fact the Minister Mr Power himself mentioned in the first reading and again in the third reading. We can tinker at the margin as much as we like, and I would not want to denigrate this legislation in that category. The Green Party is, indeed, as sympathetic towards victims as any other party in this House, but equally so it is very important to understand the social causes of what brings individual humans to criminal acts, and to seek to redress those social problems. If we put as much energy and creativity into that endeavour as we do into seeking to increase the prison population, then I think we will do better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EAs Sue Kedgley said in the first reading, if we have a society that is saturated with violence on television, computers, and videos, and we almost encourage our children to grow up imbibing that culture, then we will be simply reinventing the wheel of violence, generation after generation. We will be seeking to give succour to victims, as, indeed, we will be obliged to do morally, we will be looking to expand more and more prisons, at vast financial and social cost, and we will be simply engaging in an eternal cycle of punitive vengeance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThere is a difference, a philosophical difference, between ACT and the Green Party, but I suggest there is more in common than Mr Garrett may have misperceived. With that mild comment in reply, I simply reiterate that the Green Party is very, very happy indeed to support the legislation, congratulates both the Minister and the chairman in this respect, and looks forward to future legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00223bd28dcdc00543e4b67e41a6dc144bba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bd28dcdc00543e4b67e41a6dc144bba\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Like Kennedy Graham, my colleague from the Green Party who is also on the Justice and Electoral Committee, I do not intend to use all my speaking time; I will probably not even use most of it. That is in no way to give an indication of anything other than the seriousness with which I approach this issue, and the significance of this legislation, which will soon be law. This is a very happy occasion in many ways. It is serious, yes, but it is happy. Although there are some issues and some points that Opposition parties seek to bring out in the debate, nevertheless it is a time when the whole House becomes united against domestic violence. As I apprehend it, we will all be voting for this legislation to become law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI agree with some of the things that Kennedy Graham spoke of. There are issues in our society concerning violence. It can be cultural, and it can be a product of what is being watched on television\u2014our media and our culture. I suppose this is not in contradiction to that, but I agree with what the Minister Simon Power said; there are also issues of intergenerational violence, of violence spanning families over generations, which make up the undoubted problem of domestic violence that we have in this country. No one would argue that it is anything other than a problem, even if, following on from Kennedy Graham, following on from the Minister, we can also acknowledge how undoubtedly complex the causes of it are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWith all that as the background, domestic violence is a complicated causal issue. Domestic violence is an undoubtedly large problem in our society, with 80,000 or so police call-outs a year. But, as I say, this is a happy time, because we are united against domestic violence. It is a happy time because this legislation is in favour of victims. It puts victims where they should be in the process, at centre stage, with their concerns at heart, rather than marginalising them, as has historically been the case in New Zealand and in the Westminster tradition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWith those few thoughts, I will say that a majority of the select committee\u2019s time was spent in relation to the police safety orders. We originally called them \u201Cpolice orders\u201D, but I think \u201Cpolice safety orders\u201D more accurately reflects what they are, what they do, and what their purpose is. As I said during the Committee stage, the police safety orders address the immediate safety issues that may arise for the families and wh\u0101nau. It may be that the police, at that time, do not have sufficient evidence to arrest, but nevertheless they are presented with a situation where there is a likelihood of violence. They can defuse the situation with a police safety order. They can effectively solve the situation for a period of up to 5 days. During that time they can look at the options they are presented with, which may include prosecution of the alleged offender.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I think this is a happy moment for this Parliament. We have come together on a piece of law, notwithstanding some of the comments from some members in the House. This is another step forward for victims in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022963fe8cb9a8e4b138cb26f83deb52335\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022963fe8cb9a8e4b138cb26f83deb52335\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E It is a genuine privilege for me to contribute in the third reading of the Domestic Violence Amendment Bill, the Sentencing Amendment Bill (No 2), and the Bail Amendment Bill (No 2), into which the Domestic Violence (Enhancing Safety) Bill has been divided. I look forward to their conclusion and rapid progress into law. I begin by commending my friend and colleague the Hon Annette King, who started this process by introducing the Domestic Violence Reform Bill, upon which Domestic Violence (Enhancing Safety) Bill was based. I further commend\u2014and it will be for the final time this evening\u2014Chester Borrows for his excellent chairing of the Justice and Electoral Committee. He not only has been very respectful of the other members of the select committee, but also was very welcoming to and respectful of the submitters, and on this issue I think that is critically important. That is important on every issue, but on this issue it is particularly important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI acknowledge every member of the select committee and also the officials. They have done a very good job of looking at the submissions, making some changes to the legislation, and bringing it back to the House. They also gave us a very good report of the select committee proceedings. I also acknowledge the Minister of Justice, the Hon Simon Power. The Minister is well regarded for his personal commitment and the respect with which he deals with other members of the House. He has a considered approach to issues, and he has demonstrated that again tonight. I thank him and acknowledge his response. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI am not sure what \u201Cactive consideration\u201D means under National, but I assure the Minister that I will be reminding him of his phrase on a regular basis. I am puzzled that these issues needed further active consideration, actually, given the rigour with which they were considered previously, but obviously the Minister was alerted to some concerns. I give him an absolute assurance that when he introduces those four issues to the House Labour will be supporting their progress, and I give him an equally confident assurance that I will be regularly reminding him of his consideration until his consideration is ended. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESome time ago I gave a maiden speech in this House; it was actually on 24 March 1994. That was quite some time ago. It was probably not long after the time that Simon Bridges was born.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dede1b3b17ed4919937b182b5023f4f7\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: And \u201CChippy\u201D!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228685a6efe0f944888fb27f62bbdddcf5\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: And Chris Hipkins. The member is right. In that maiden speech\u2014that speech is one that we all take very seriously\u2014I raised the issues that were of most concern to me. In my maiden speech, I said this: \u201CSecurity in the home is an issue that received deserved attention and prominence this week.\u201D I said that nearly 20 years ago I had been in a violent relationship, and I explained to the House that I therefore spoke with understanding of, and personal commitment to, the issue. I said: \u201CI know the confusion of emotions that are linked with women involved in domestic violence.\u201D I mentioned the United Nations adoption of the Declaration on the Elimination of Violence Against Women and drew the attention of the House to article 4 as having the most relevance. I spoke with pride of New Zealand\u2019s leadership on this issue, and reminded the Government that there was still a lot of work to be done. I am very pleased that since that time\u2014tragically, 1994 is a long time ago\u2014both main parties have done a lot about this issue. But it remains a blight on our society that we have people, particularly women and children, who become victims of abuse and violence in their own homes, the places where they live and should feel the most secure and the most loved, and often end up seriously injured or dead. That is something that members in this House should be ashamed of as leaders in our community. The speeches that members have contributed throughout this debate show that, across every single party, this House is ashamed of that behaviour and determined to make progress against it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe issue of domestic violence still remains one of the most important ones for our country to make progress on, 15\u00BD years on from my maiden speech. I remain as committed as I was then to doing everything I can to rid our society and our communities of that scourge, so that every single member of our families can go home in the evening and be safe for the entire night. We are taking a step forward now, and it is a good step. I commend this legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u00229f3be3a0adff4dee8274b1f17082045c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f3be3a0adff4dee8274b1f17082045c\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call on the third readings of this legislation. This legislation enables police to issue on-the-spot protective orders for a period of up to 5 days. This will ensure the safety of victims and protect them from offenders depending on the situation as it is assessed on the spot. The legislation will also repeal criteria for arrest without warrant for breach of protection orders and will also amend the structure and penalties for offences of breach of protection orders. This Government is working hard to bring down the level of violence in our society. This legislation is a significant step in making our society safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EDomestic violence is committed not just against women. It is also committed against men, children, senior citizens, and disabled people. During the select committee process we heard many submissions from the representatives of elderly and disabled victims. These people suffered not only from physical trauma, but also from mental trauma. There were submissions from disabled people who had undergone physical and mental trauma on a regular basis. There were also submissions from the representatives of ethnic communities. They mentioned that there was a lack of awareness of the law and there were cultural sensitivities. Therefore, there has been an increase in family violence in ethnic communities too. Whatever legislation we may pass, it will be ineffective unless everyone contributes to it. It will be ineffective until people take responsibility for their actions, and until they start reporting any misconduct or family violence in their neighbourhoods or in their families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EViolence is not just the actual act of physical assault against a person, which is unacceptable; psychological and emotional violence is equally unacceptable. We need to stand up and raise our voices against any violence. We need to make our fellow New Zealanders aware of the legislation. In this country of 4.4 million people, New Zealanders have close to 80,000 domestic violence incidents every year, which is a shocking statistic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EI will conclude by appealing to all New Zealanders to stand and raise their voices against domestic violence. We should all be proactive, and be models for all New Zealanders. I say to members, let us stand against this behaviour. I commend this legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EBills read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20091020509938847a794f8ebc272cc4f14ac833000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 8.05 p.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"