"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b311e3393e542e5b527f162aa28d966\u0022\u003EWednesday, 21 April 2010\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022513c07033cf043ebba97f03f03034c91\u0022\u003EWednesday, 21 April 2010\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220a3668d3142c48afbb38986e2e87c4ab\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227df3c1fd1f624aef8e167efaa0bd3a45\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022170312a2b2d24a0c9b43a8df5484d475\u0022\u003ESale of Public Assets\u2014Mining in Conservation Areas\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1ac4499183d46f88cd9133637f6c2bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1ac4499183d46f88cd9133637f6c2bb\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Is it current Government policy that no State assets will be sold either partially or fully?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002284820b56872341fb8385edecef2b5438\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284820b56872341fb8385edecef2b5438\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Acting Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E This Government has said many times it is Government policy not to sell State assets in the term of this Government. That means not selling an ownership interest in State-owned enterprises or Crown companies, and we have stuck to that policy. If the member is referring to tenure review and land that is sold as a result of that, tenure review has been going on since 1948. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae5623391907491fb44fb624628c9bac\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Does the digging up and selling off of publicly owned minerals in our national parks by privately owned firms benefit private interests?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022241ddd1191594eb1843ea6ffa794726d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very unusual interpretation of the policy, but in respect of the schedule 4 consultation document I would think there is absolutely no prospect that in this term of the Government\u2014even if we accepted her interpretation\u2014there would be mining in any of those areas. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022396336387f5149e7a400e9aa93693f72\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the honourable member Metiria Turei. She had not even got out a word of her question before there was an excessive level of interjection. That is unreasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fc298457ce849298692eb61c0b5e227\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Is a 5 percent Government share and a 95 percent private share of the profits from the mining of State-owned minerals a full or partial privatisation of a State asset?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294cf43182c7b448aa847e497d083338b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member may be interested in a word game around that. The fact is that mining occurs regularly on Crown-owned land. I have never before heard that described as any kind of privatisation. The previous Government gave out mining licences, because the Department of Conservation provided access to mining on the conservation estate. We do not regard that as privatisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211f1206c8a5845eab6b3c8a748553b8f\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister clarify whether the State-owned minerals that he plans to sell off will still be there for future generations to utilise, or will they have gone into private hands?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c98a99c6c7e048ed913ef91514fbfd40\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I think the answer to the question is obvious: if minerals are dug out of land owned by the Crown\u2014which happens in a large number of cases right now\u2014and they are sold, then those minerals are not there for future generations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022781f73f575f74116b9f9815f31b6d136\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: So the Prime Minister does understand, then, that when he sells something to someone else it no longer belongs to him, and that if he sells off a public asset, which is the mineral wealth belonging to the public, to someone else\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e44ff01294124b7c98d1add3e05b8a03\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have been listening very carefully, and I have been unable to discern a question in what the member has said so far. I do not expect the member to start with a question word, but I was waiting to hear a question emerge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260fe5e4dfac141b48d56153944153369\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I did start the question with the phrase \u201Cdoes he understand\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfbc52b0a424469db28781b930b2756e\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I might be from the Hutt Valley and that might be an explanation for this, but I heard the member say \u201Cdoes he understand\u201D. That is a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7a048344a374fa889a5e8bc8a474da4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the member to repeat her question. Please make it more clearly a question, because it started out \u201CSo, the Prime Minister does understand \u2026 that \u2026\u201D and then went on with a statement. I think we should really have a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251209ca9eafc4211925a2fea29751756\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister understand that when he sells something to someone else it no longer belongs to him, and that the selling off of publicly owned minerals to private interests means that they no longer belong to the public?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2ff97364019484e96afd01886afb17f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, he does understand that, and I am impressed with the sophisticated analysis that the Greens are applying to this complex issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac2e9be16eb54b658b6ac5c2be631605\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Given the Minister\u2019s answer that he does not expect there to be the selling off of State assets in this term, can he confirm that it has been National\u2019s plan all along to have a fire sale of New Zealand\u2019s State assets in 2012?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d6864c1aec2441ea3582016b3026dc4\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No. In respect of the position on State assets, the Government has stated many times that in this term of office it would not sell State assets. If that were to change, it would announce a position prior to the 2011 election and campaign on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca93f4e552ca452ea9765e842cf6a2a9\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: How can the public have any confidence in this Prime Minister when, in breach of a promise he made to the electorate, he still plans to dig up and sell off a publicly owned asset, the mineral wealth of this country, destroying sections of national parks held dear to the hearts of New Zealanders across the country, and when he is attempting to dupe the public by saying this is not the privatisation of a public asset?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0185a4202c941ae9e722e1cee598505\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member has quite an interesting combination of conclusions that she has jumped to and assertions that she has made up in that respect. The fact is that the Government has put out a consultation document on whether there should be mining on some schedule 4 land, submissions are being made on that document, and the Government will then make decisions after it has heard public views. In the meantime, as I understand it, under the previous Government, which the member supported, there was a considerable amount\u2014and there still is\u2014of mining occurring on publicly owned land, generally to the benefit of New Zealanders, who get well-paid jobs, and of the service industry, and without a major impact on the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002215a1a2fd04e94962935ad4174efab70e\u0022\u003EUN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples\u2014Prime Minister\u2019s Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u002285f0181342c045fdafec36cd672e558c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285f0181342c045fdafec36cd672e558c\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement regarding the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples that \u201CIt is an expression of aspiration; it will have no impact on New Zealand law\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1c1c50dc01d4639a04e9fca68b7ad5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1c1c50dc01d4639a04e9fca68b7ad5c\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Acting Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and it is worth noting that other countries, such as Australia, announced their support for the declaration in recent years, and, despite the member\u2019s dire predictions, Australia, for instance, has not been handed over in its entirety to its indigenous people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f0bcc7c1c494676b942963fbfe9ef82\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to legal expert Mai Chen, who says that, to the contrary, affirming the principles of the declaration actually influences New Zealand courts and the Waitangi Tribunal? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5db372851d9459494c35e187973c113\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Ms Chen would know that New Zealand courts have already imported reference to the declaration\u2014in fact, the draft declaration\u2014into judgments in the New Zealand courts. As the member will know, the Government is in constant negotiation with M\u0101ori about the regulation and ownership of resources and various other property rights. I have found the expectations of M\u0101ori to be pretty pragmatic and quite progressive, where they are keen to get on with creating jobs, lifting incomes, and getting better education. Actually, they are not that preoccupied with the declaration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229877feb99b6e495087a9ac6e7ea3db9b\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Government\u2019s affirmation of article 4, which gives indigenous people the right of self-determination, autonomy, and self-government, mean that the Government will give to the T\u016Bhoe what they are seeking, which are those exact same things; if not, what does it mean? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ff3b408ce63438db3d6826f112b9731\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to the question about T\u016Bhoe is no. They will not be getting the right to self-government. The member knows that is a silly question. The member should understand the process: the Government has made a statement of affirmation of the declaration, and the degree to which New Zealand affirms that declaration is in the statements made by Minister Sharples and Minister Power, and by the Prime Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acd3e6cfc92c4363bd9d73d5cb5832f7\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Government\u2019s affirmation of article 26, which gives indigenous people the right to land that they have traditionally owned, occupied, or used\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a97579bcf7764f459ba57664e2fa49af\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Or used?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a52007eeafa54919a8fe3de627c215bc\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or used, which actually covers the whole of New Zealand, mean that individually owned land will now be subject to Treaty demands, or was that affirmation just an empty gesture? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1646e37f16b4ed18739b79c0c051e30\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As the various statements from various Ministers have made plain, issues to do with land are determined within New Zealand\u2019s legal framework, and the affirmation of the declaration does not make any change to that. However, we are very pleased to see that M\u0101ori are keen on the idea of running their own lives, which is completely different from Labour\u2019s view, which is that the Government should run their lives, that they should be dependent, and that there is nothing that M\u0101ori can do about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bd02b261ad84f999bedf6e611c0b347\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister seen reports contradicting dire predictions of dangerous divisions between M\u0101ori and P\u0101keha? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9781abd18b14af29315f71843cc217b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It is not just reports that we have seen. As I said earlier, the Government is interacting daily, often on quite contentious issues, with a range of M\u0101ori groups, and doing so in a very positive and progressive manner. I think that the dire predictions by the Opposition are more to do with its loss of the M\u0101ori vote than anything else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269b73fc955ac4b18979e89372d31bb6b\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Government\u2019s affirmation of article 17, which requires the Government to seek consent from indigenous peoples before passing laws, mean that M\u0101ori people have a veto over the laws; if not, what does it mean? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269624fd27cb7441f9abdc5064cdccee7\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As we have said any number of times, all those processes carry on within the framework of New Zealand law. As it happens, the current Government is in coalition with the M\u0101ori Party, and we often seek its agreement to pass laws. That is democracy, and we do not see what is wrong with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226650b898738d40e58f25201b34136df8\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Does this Government have as its aspiration for New Zealand article 26 of the declaration, which states: \u201CIndigenous peoples have the right to the lands, territories and resources which they have traditionally owned, occupied or otherwise used or acquired.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a291aa85a811416e8bb1efc07927a42d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As I stated earlier, all those matters related to land are dealt with in the current New Zealand framework, which is not altogether straightforward, because a common law tradition, for instance, recognises longstanding traditional occupation of land. We are negotiating every day with M\u0101ori interests over control of land and resources, and we are doing so very productively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203b6744dd85547ffb32e2e4d8d790c19\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is unusual for me to take a point of order on behalf of Rodney Hide, but that was a very clear question about whether the Government has an aspiration. In the answer was a whole pile of stuff to do with dealing with the issue, but the fundamental question as to whether that particular clause was the Government\u2019s aspiration was not even addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022297eb76138e94d66b23b4e53a329d254\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is an interesting point of order, but it is my interpretation, listening to the Minister\u2019s answer, that, in fact, he explained what the Government\u2019s aspiration was with respect to the treatment of land. Although it may not have been exactly the answer the member wanted to hear, when a member asks that kind of question\u2014about an aspiration\u2014there is no specific answer to it. I do not think I can ask a Minister to give any particular answer to that kind of question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a641523de3648609180b1d555be6297\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think this is an important issue. It may be that you, Mr Speaker, could understand that from the Minister\u2019s explanation, but I think it is fair to say that most people in this House could not understand from his explanation whether it was the Government\u2019s aspiration to hand land over to M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bca276c312ad425194945a72909ac7d3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I must say to the honourable member that it was a nice try, but, as the Speaker has to be the judge in these matters, I have to base my judgment on what I understand from what the Minister said. That is the way I see the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1abff2492eb4cec85b3fd90fbbf7d3b\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Do any of the affirmations in the declaration that the Government has agreed to represent an extension of M\u0101ori rights; if so, where?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222714426edda442ed9d2362401573b344\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said, all the issues that have been referred to here will be dealt with inside the current legal framework of New Zealand. That is not a radical view; we have heard today that the US has now stated that it is reviewing its position on the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250806e47268d48088ceca487eee13393\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You will recall that that was a very specific question about whether any of those affirmations represent an extension of M\u0101ori rights. I would have thought I could get a direct answer to that question, rather than a fudged answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221751ff6e102f4dd8a5fbd0abbfc366a0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have to agree on this occasion with the honourable Leader of the Opposition. It was a very specific question; there was no political loading in it. It asked whether the rights are extended in any way, and I believe there is a real interest in the answer to that question. I ask the Hon Bill English to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f7c779d21e44966b6514c21b26456a1\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I answered the question quite directly to say that all the issues that the members have referred to are dealt with within the existing legal framework of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e26b1ebbde9a41adb43081115278fc09\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will ask the honourable Leader of the Opposition to repeat his question so that everyone can hear it. The issue is about rights. Within the legal framework of New Zealand there may be subtle changes in the rights people have\u2014I do not know; I am not an expert in this area. But I think an answer that more directly addresses the question the member asked is on this occasion warranted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022144f92a806a64d8c91ecf5f3571cfd54\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Do any of the articles in the declaration that the Government has just affirmed represent an extension of M\u0101ori rights; if so, where?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d82a3ca42eae4d16871900a2fd5efb62\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The answer is the one I gave before: all M\u0101ori rights are subject to the existing legal framework in New Zealand, and that does not change as a result of this affirmation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d5083a714954d9f80b26f83396184e6\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. If that answer was the answer that the Minister gave before, you already indicated to the House that that was not satisfactory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227793c7392b24473a8a14dee720c2d99\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The slight difference in the answer given this time was that the Minister, in answering it, said that the rights that M\u0101ori have in New Zealand are determined by the current framework of our law, and implied in that answer that there was therefore no change to the rights. If that was an incorrect interpretation, I am sure further supplementary questions will elucidate the matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229aabb4ff0ea4215a9163f1451d7c77b\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister accept each and every one of the 46 articles of the declaration as an expression of aspiration for New Zealand, or are there some articles that the Prime Minister rejects?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022021873a6b464443389276101ae9773c2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The best exposition of the Government\u2019s position on that is set out in the statement of affirmation that was read out by Minister Sharples in New York and Minister Power here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b9f94eb90f44092b8a299bcfc746b6a\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not believe for a minute that that could be an answer in Parliament to a question of whether each of the articles is an expression of aspiration for the country. To say that something was read at 4.45 a.m. on the other side of the Earth is not a parliamentary answer to a question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ba58f21761b4ac495a8945f0e96ff8f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have some sympathy with the member\u2019s point of order, because members of this House will not necessarily be familiar with the statement made by the Minister in New York. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d52d818a9654daa968a4d869a046315\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: It is the same statement; I read it yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219a7d74d65144fcf8f5504346a47e3e1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if in fact that is the statement read to the House, and if that is what the Minister is saying, then the Minister should be able to answer the question asked by the member. The member asked for elucidation on that statement, and the House has not heard any elucidation. I invite the member to repeat his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e14f17f204f844028420001c42e4831e\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Government accept each and every article of the 46 articles as an expression of aspiration for New Zealand, or are there some articles of the 46 that the Government does not accept?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268c84689fa6b4e99b0d1d5c8875d47aa\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to that, I suppose, is no. We have made it clear that the Government affirms the statement, subject to the existing legal framework of New Zealand remaining unchanged. The commentary on the declaration shows that some of the rights expressed in there are quite uncontentious\u2014the right to freedom of religion, property rights, and so on\u2014and some of them are more contentious. Whatever the nature of the articles there, they are all subject to New Zealand\u2019s existing legal framework, which remains unchanged as a result of the affirmation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002218b96cf256b0414dbd6c33884a6fc01f\u0022\u003EBudget 2010\u2014Tax Reform\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022 data-id=\u0022b55a3e64057649e48861d8c90753cfbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b55a3e64057649e48861d8c90753cfbe\u0022\u003EAARON GILMORE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What are the Government\u2019s objectives for tax reform in this year\u2019s Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002276f93085691e48a1bd0df8a32d58ecdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276f93085691e48a1bd0df8a32d58ecdc\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has two main objectives: to enable the economy to grow faster, and to give people more choices about what to do with their own money in a fairer tax system. Both are important and necessary. We can help to lift growth in the economy, and encourage savings and exports over borrowing and consumption, by making changes in the tax system. We can make it fairer if we apply even tax rates across different sectors and fix some of the glaring anomalies that currently exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e29e9d79235947bda302ff0f1f43c830\u0022\u003EAaron Gilmore\u003C/span\u003E: What would be the impact on prices of any lift in GST?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276f8d2dcd478458db61cbeaad28a7507\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: This issue was addressed by Statistics New Zealand in a release back in February. It calculated that the lift in prices from a 15 percent GST rate would be just over 2 percent. For those goods already subject to 12\u00BD percent, Statistics New Zealand says that the rise would be equivalent to a 2.22 percent lift in price. However, GST does not apply to all expenditure, and rents, mortgage payments, and school donations are exempt. When these are allowed for, Statistics New Zealand says that the overall increase is about 2.02 percent. This increase would be lower than the actual inflation rate in each of the past 6 years, and in 9 of the past 10 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2721ac9b1a14662b0a7747828c8d851\u0022\u003EAaron Gilmore\u003C/span\u003E: How would the Government ensure that real incomes are maintained or increased, in light of a GST increase? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228385c5e91210407c88f0df4016c7d46a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: A number of tools are available to the Government. Firstly, income tax rates could be reduced for all levels of income by an amount that is at least as great as any GST rise. Secondly, there could be an immediate upward adjustment for beneficiaries, superannuitants, and those receiving Working for Families and other supplementary assistance. All of these are indexed to the CPI, which ensures that real incomes will be permanently maintained. In the case of national superannuation, as well as CPI-indexation payments, the rate would go up as a result of tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e498142f12f4d7ba431e88819600489\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Is it one of the Government\u2019s objectives to ensure that the 91 percent of taxpayers who are earning under $70,000 a year will benefit fairly from the tax reforms in Budget 2010, after having missed out so badly in Budget 2009; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee236212a816405ebd7844d5b3ef98ae\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: What those taxpayers missed out on so badly was the last Government\u2019s squandering of a long period of economic growth, where those taxpayers got not one single cent until the month before the 2008 election. We will fix that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI seek leave to table the media release by Statistics New Zealand on 21 January 2010.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9e5716a2d6844abab96dc0b0ae81694\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is just a media release. I think these media releases are available to all members. I do not think I will allow this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022622892770c7241218fa7db0b81840600\u0022\u003ESenior Citizens\u2014Effect of Government Policies\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022e96581082b0d4fdcb558849cbc609a4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e96581082b0d4fdcb558849cbc609a4c\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reassurance did he give to delegates at the Grey Power conference about his explanation of how Government policies were affecting vulnerable, older people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022de9637fcd3c246119844b1da2f256040\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de9637fcd3c246119844b1da2f256040\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I pointed out a number of the Government\u2019s initiatives that have helped them. In health, the Government has delivered an extra 12,000 elective operations this year, which is a record annual increase. In law and order, we have provided for an extra 600 front-line police officers, and have given the police new tools, such as Tasers, to go after criminals. And I pointed out that since 1 October 2008 the New Zealand rate of national superannuation for a married couple has increased by $100 a fortnight in the hand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ad49628a7b549679f1a1da9462e5e79\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Did his explanation to the delegates about his cleaning his own bathroom impress them, when they know that Ministers\u2019 cleaning costs are paid for them and this Minister actually asked for more, and when people like Desmond Peat, a war veteran who has had a leg amputated and is on the waiting list for a heart bypass operation, has just had his home help cut by 1\u00BD hours?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee296bcdff2c44bcad055b4126a12605\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If I heard the question rightly, it asked about the reaction of an audience at a meeting. The Minister is not responsible for how an organisation may react. [Interruption] I am dealing with an issue. If the question had asked specifically about the speech, that would have been fine, but the question asked about the reaction of an audience. The Minister is not responsible for that. I would like the member to please rephrase his question to make it come clearly within the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d02e87e5100428c8452b347f63fbe99\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: What I asked was whether the Minister had impressed the delegates, and he has an opinion on that because he gave the speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed3095c54d074d2ebadad12f2063cf96\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member would repeat his question. I accept the point he is making, absolutely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022138708e63e5242999d0a36c348d4bf54\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Did his explanation about cleaning his own bathroom impress delegates, when they know that Ministers\u2019 cleaning costs are paid for them and this particular Minister asked for more, and when people like Desmond Peat, a war veteran who has had a leg amputated and who is waiting for heart surgery, has just had 1\u00BD hours of his home help cut, leaving him with nothing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215c80faac21848438eea89255616ba80\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, the Prime Minister has removed cleaning costs; it was a privilege available to Labour Ministers that National Ministers do not receive. I thought the member had a serious intent behind his question, which was home care for vulnerable older people, but I see that he does not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e2d0b5789bd4461a529f393dafd5c79\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Minister, in light of what he was told by the delegates at the conference, say, then, about the man about whom I received a letter today? Henry is 84, has heart problems and bowel cancer, and has difficulty walking, and his 1\u00BE hours of home care have just been cut. That is miserable. Why is the Minister of Finance allowing that to happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bfaa32cad3c4b76b10a72040dc30358\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: At the meeting with Grey Power, I outlined to Grey Power that we felt the system ought to deal with cases individually to ensure that vulnerable older people were not left without care. My colleague the Minister of Health has pointed out that people have the opportunity to bring those cases forward and they will be dealt with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b10f33b6ad64d86b9e8c4f1588076ae\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the letter about Henry, which identifies his son\u2019s name and his circumstances, and as Henry lives in or near the member\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022657f154ca348432c9a7c5477180f605a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The last bit was not necessary to seek leave to table a document. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229aa9027f9574a43bfe3a032b57c23f9\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: What upfront compensation was provided to superannuitants and vulnerable older New Zealanders when GST was last increased, in 1989?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206fa20df05e24441b095e9fa02d72602\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: When GST was increased 21 years ago by the Labour Cabinet, which included the current leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party\u2014Phil Goff and Annette King\u2014there was not one cent of compensation for superannuitants. I am not surprised, because Phil Goff has told the media and the public that he is against an increase in GST but will not roll it back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286c298fd1408420d9959b1d5e7f79da5\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Grey Power delegates think it was fair that frail and vulnerable elderly people on low incomes have been stripped of their home\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255ee247b6cd144b1b569fd0f432eb224\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member asked whether Grey Power delegates did something; the Minister has no responsibility for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022131655df33324b799a6d03ca7ee25f5c\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Did the delegates tell the Minister that they thought it was fair that frail and elderly people were being stripped of their home-care assistance while he, as Minister of Finance, has foreshadowed tax cuts that will give him and his Cabinet colleagues about $240 extra a week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022554aad744a4f4645ad11d8082fc6f762\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: They raised the issue of home care, because we have an open and constructive relationship with Grey Power. Where they have raised legitimate cases that should be looked at, the Minister of Health has undertaken to look at them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c959e0cd784f46e78fa60d208b5a60c6\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: How would superannuitants be compensated for any increase in GST as part of any tax package in the Budget next month?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e725ecf0ef85458893374f49e04f27d5\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: For the benefit of the Leader of the Opposition, who has made a number of public statements that indicate he does not understand how New Zealand Superannuation works, let me explain. If GST is increased, there would be a once-only increase in the rate of inflation of just over 2 percent, and after-tax superannuation rates would be increased on the day of any GST increase by that amount. To meet other and ongoing price increases, the usual annual inflation adjustment would be made to superannuation rates, so that superannuitants\u2019 spending power was preserved. Finally, any personal income tax cuts would also increase the amount of superannuation that people would receive in the hand, because there would be less tax on superannuation and because it would raise the floor of 66 percent of the after-tax average wage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ae5f673eca840bc932ccd878d2a16fc\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Did the delegates tell Mr English that they thought the Government had its priorities right in cutting home help, in cutting out funding for the Accident Compensation Corporation\u2019s falls prevention programme, and in cutting orthopaedic surgery for elderly people, while this Government is giving a privileged and wealthy elite the biggest cuts in recent times to their income tax in the forthcoming Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef54a0b98fd249f39cdfa7467650e5b9\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: In fact, no, they did not say that, because they understand what the Leader of the Opposition does not, which is that in the depths of a significant recession the Government has protected the elderly, as is indicated by the fact that New Zealand Superannuation for a married couple is now $100 per fortnight higher than it was in October 2008. They also understand that we need to lift growth in this economy if we are to give them a decent standard of living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cf18f3d3662499daa1b7655c3825e6c\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: At the end of his discussion with the Grey Power delegates, did he have any better understanding of why they think this Government is looking after itself and its wealthy mates while slashing help to elderly people who have paid taxes all of their lives?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228522bf861464e879fce90b4d84f16d4\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Coming from the leader of a party whose Government squandered 9 years of a growing economy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e1b243f12b54703b4b00e8a437f01e9\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211aea75e51ee4e4f9cb459a56fd4bf38\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order has been called. That is unacceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220aa77acc063e4b37a90bf28f1385c58a\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I think you know that it is not appropriate for the Minister to start an answer to a question in that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235c6d59776db436c84ba5446e3774255\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, you have previously ruled that if members ask questions that make outrageous assertions, such as those made by the Hon Phil Goff in that question, they should expect a hard flick back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258ae41e8f78145adb27c76420c076cab\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275f1e52a1f444e949376dfb6f91c79c6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This will be the last\u2014[Interruption] People are offending all over the place. I remind them that a point of order is being heard, and it should be heard in silence. Please do not try my patience. This will be the last comment I hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275cf4193d9a3498d9496221d90540924\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I think the comment made by the Leader of the Opposition as part of his question was definitely political but not offensive, and did not invite that sort of reaction. If the member were trying to be offensive, he would have invited the Minister to pay the money back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb5f988b89bc409495f951e03471c0d3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The only reason why I will not come down very hard on the Hon Trevor Mallard is that other members have offended under this point of order process, and it would be seen as being unfair. But that comment was very unacceptable. It was because points like that were built into the questions asked by the Leader of the Opposition during this course of questioning that I did not object to the manner in which the Minister of Finance responded to the previous question. If members want to load into questions material that some Ministers may find offensive, then they should not seek my protection when a Minister responds in kind. That is why I did not intervene on that occasion. Members will have noticed that where members ask straight questions and a Minister makes gratuitous comments, I come down on the Minister pretty hard. But a series of questions during this question No. 4 have been personally pretty critical of the Minister, so we cannot blame the Minister for being critical in response to the previous question. I agree that he has to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee8f159ee3dc488cb53daf82ddf7f590\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I am surprised the member is so motivated about this issue, because despite Labour having record surpluses and a fast-growing economy, it cut home care, and that member never complained. He leads a party that squandered the opportunity to make important changes to support our older people, and they have not forgiven him for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d467ec4cb024717ba5508d3294c4a23\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table in this House a copy of the request on behalf of Bill English for additional cleaning money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acced8343f8346a8993709533eb5a5b7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is this document a letter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fff1126d7974976a590d34f0317a17c\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It is either a letter or an email; I have it in my room.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d382782d5274b1f9090de50c272a992\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002297d9a536ec1f472c99473630f3327aa0\u0022\u003ERoad Safety\u2014Young People\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002271ce7f96f91c46198c27c33bb97d534e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271ce7f96f91c46198c27c33bb97d534e\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What improvements has the Government announced for road safety for young people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb6529727c814c9f90b6d3de82187854\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb6529727c814c9f90b6d3de82187854\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has agreed on a package of measures that will improve road safety for young drivers in New Zealand and narrow the gap in our safety record for young drivers relative to those in Australia. These measures include increasing the driving age from 15 to 16; making the restricted licence test more difficult, to encourage 120 hours of supervised driving practice; improving the road safety education available to young people; and investigating tougher penalties for breaches of restricted licences. In addition, the Government is investigating vehicle power restrictions for young drivers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290ad929d9bcf4a0a83ad9d7908f023a1\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What else is the Government doing for young drivers in order to reduce the road toll?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274a64ed1449b49c1855d97f4be013f96\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: A second package of initiatives focused on the impact of alcohol on our roads will be discussed by Cabinet shortly. This package includes a proposal to reduce the youth blood-alcohol limit to zero.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4ef3c5a41d64a7c9a9c218c466efe13\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: What improvements has the Government been considering to cycle safety on our picturesque highways, given that the Minister has just increased the potential weight of trucks to 53 tonnes while reducing the funding available for road maintenance; and what will he do to counter claims by European tourists that our roads are now too dangerous for cycle touring?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220df8f5b160ef43a18b4f9a51c253289d\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: There are a number of incorrect assertions in the member\u2019s question, including the one that we have reduced the amount for State highway maintenance. That is simply incorrect. The second point is that the increase in permitted limits for trucks will actually reduce the number of trucks on the road for the same weight of freight. The third point is that we have a number of initiatives in Safer Journeys, which I am happy to provide the member with a second copy of if she wishes to read the initiatives in relation to cycle safety on New Zealand roads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b64a5e6a4c34898b22046cb40a062be\u0022\u003EWh\u0101nau Ora\u2014Establishments of Contracts\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022881567f7998d4223b9a14141487973b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022881567f7998d4223b9a14141487973b4\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister responsible for Wh\u0101nau Ora: What progress has been made towards the establishment of the 20 Wh\u0101nau Ora contracts expected to start in July 2010?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3e522c8e47c4d838c0ccbe03af2545b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3e522c8e47c4d838c0ccbe03af2545b\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA (Minister responsible for Wh\u0101nau Ora):\u003C/span\u003E A Government group has been established to facilitate the implementation of Wh\u0101nau Ora and provide leadership and coordination across Government agencies and stakeholders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280e8a85072244f5383eb1833805e6f3d\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Will any of the 20 Wh\u0101nau Ora contracts be located in the 58 areas that have Strengthening Families, which is a programme that the Minister for Social Development and Employment, Paula Bennett, said is Wh\u0101nau Ora, or in the 13 areas where Early Years service hubs already exist, which are coordinating services where 98 percent of its families are M\u0101ori; if so, will these existing programmes cease or have their funding reduced?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eec3c8e3c37f4fed9f30cabe9683211a\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: Strengthening Families focuses on better coordination of roles between agencies when supporting families. Wh\u0101nau Ora seeks to better position w\u2019\u0101nau to take responsibility for their own futures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c9cc0aff9234899b78fe1601de3d30b\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: What plans are in place to evaluate the Wh\u0101nau Ora programme using such methodologies as randomised control trials to compare the outcome of wh\u0101nau receiving Wh\u0101nau Ora - based services with an equivalent group that are receiving existing services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232f66950afdc498691f5abc127f8cea0\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: There will be research running alongside of Wh\u0101nau Ora, but it will not be to compare them with existing failed services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022384f7f0fcc4949cbba1c8436c93ee889\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: What does she expect will be achieved through a Wh\u0101nau Ora approach?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfd0f458e3fa4c138e42a19bb3b4cc7a\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: Essentially we expect that w\u2019\u0101nau will be empowered to deal with the issues that confront them rather than be trapped in an environment of crisis. A Wh\u0101nau Ora approach will enable people to focus on their own potential and opportunities to improve their situation. Some w\u2019\u0101nau will continue to need the support of service providers and also agencies to make that transition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd8eacf5002a4120a893a878b294dcc3\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the Prime Minister that after spending over $1 billion on Wh\u0101nau Ora, if it does not work \u201Cwe will try something different\u201D; and because there is a large amount of funding at risk, when will she be in a position to present an initial statement on the success of the Wh\u0101nau Ora - based approach compared with the outcomes from existing provisions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227816d126f7fe400380a0affe91e04b6d\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: After 30 years of failed provisions, I think I can safely say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd80c5a6e6b24b51aafcc8055d6e4c15\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265cde14e8a6347bfa89d32fc2ae51b17\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: Do those members want to hear the answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d2f330e5bdc403e89808e3f31621ae0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Speaker wants to hear the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022209d602c74c94ec38ab3cbf2343d36ec\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: I feel very confident, because right throughout the country the whole non-governmental organisation sector is so excited and highly motivated to make this work. The Labour Party members might laugh, but in the next election we will see how excited they are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9c37dd92847409abfca4b80b1ad56e6\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That might have been a nice answer to clap for, but it certainly was not an answer to the very direct question that I asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231015a8a46604fa39eb9dc3d5994f455\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As I recollect the member\u2019s question, it was a fairly direct question that asked the Minister when she might be in a position to report on assessment of the success of a programme. I invite the member to repeat the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da28a2b10ccb4dba924ed159a14cbf54\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I asked whether she agreed with the Prime Minister that after spending over a billion dollars on Wh\u0101nau Ora if it does not work, as he said \u201Cwe will try something different\u201D; and, because there is a large amount of funding at risk, when will she be in a position to present an initial statement on the success of a Wh\u0101nau Ora - based approach when compared with outcomes from existing provisions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff6f7dcc1ed44d58a9755a19ebe2a726\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: At present we do not have an outcomes measurement in existing programmes. In fact, what is measured is a lot of outputs and activity. I think that after a year, we will be able to give some really good outcome measurements that show we are making progress with families rather than counting numbers and money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e051b553a3ac47e4986c7f95c7620f20\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: How will providers find out what will be required with Wh\u0101nau Ora?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fffd674f165440969d4bd9f135d25d32\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: The three key agencies\u2014the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Social Development, and Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2014are engaging with providers through a series of hui across the country in coming weeks. This will ensure that providers are well informed about Wh\u0101nau Ora prior to the expression of interest process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255eb7cbc4d9942ed9830fab2ce3f91d4\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the Television One poll last night, which showed that 63 percent of New Zealanders do not feel they have a good understanding of Wh\u0101nau Ora, does she believe that 10 meetings over the next month will be enough to improve that understanding; and who has been invited to these meetings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee5a7b78d0f042239461a826670644cf\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: We can look at these polls and interpret them the way we like, because 57 percent of New Zealanders support Wh\u0101nau Ora. I apologise; I cannot remember the second part of the supplementary question. [Interruption] It is a little bit more than 8 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db3ce57d6a724bf4bf74b153f2e21fe3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure the supplementary question was quite so specific. Does the member wish to seek a further supplementary question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcfb2d39260d4bcdaeb1543720d99372\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, I was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f648027c053f43ea8cfaf8013f3addc6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275f62a6b3c3a4d4a94735733ff82179e\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not believe that the Minister addressed it. I asked, in light of the fact that 63 percent in the poll having said they did not have a good understanding, and the Minister saying on television last night that she intended to hold 10 meetings over the next month, whether that was enough to improve understanding, and who had been invited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd04f954ce8540a8a73198828f28537f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member asked a question in light of certain polls last night, and in her answer the Minister gave figures that perhaps question the selected polling information the member used. To ask the Minister to be more precise on that kind of question is a little bit difficult. I have already asked the Minister to be more precise on one answer for the member. If she has further supplementary questions, I invite her to pursue them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e3286ff17b674b8cbd07b28d05284f87\u0022\u003EKyoto Protocol\u2014New Zealand\u2019s Net Position\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u00227781e588631247858e2550e344d7a920\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227781e588631247858e2550e344d7a920\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Climate Change Issues: What reports has he received on New Zealand\u2019s latest net position report under the Kyoto Protocol?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc2ac7f88f2e4e3b949a6c62e2e769dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc2ac7f88f2e4e3b949a6c62e2e769dc\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for Climate Change Issues):\u003C/span\u003E The report shows that New Zealand is set to exceed its Kyoto target by 11.4 million tonnes, which is worth $233 million. That is a small improvement on the previous year\u2019s estimate. The report shows that, although New Zealand\u2019s gross emissions will be 23 percent greater than in 1990, over the Kyoto period, 2008 to 2012, that is offset by the growth increment of forests planted since 1989. However, the credits for those forests belong to forest owners. Foresters are expected to receive credits worth $1.8 billion; consumers and businesses, through the emissions trading scheme, are expected to pay approximately $1 billion; and taxpayers are expected to face a bill of about $570 million over the period to 2012. The $231 million surplus is the overall balance for \u201CNew Zealand Incorporated\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1bc34a073264090a89ed6f6e2f637d4\u0022\u003ENikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received any advice on the impacts of the Government\u2019s emissions trading scheme on New Zealand\u2019s net Kyoto position?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c758ca7db644054898ec23bd560f44e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the advice I have received is that New Zealand would be in deficit were it not for the emissions trading scheme. The emissions trading scheme is projected to reduce net emissions by 22 million tonnes as a consequence of the financial incentives it introduces to both reduce emissions and plant trees. In short, without the emissions trading scheme New Zealand would not meet its Kyoto commitment to stabilise net emissions at 1990 levels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251f4f4cb8edf4be4949d9f9e7dbf6635\u0022\u003ENikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister clarify that there is a difference between New Zealand\u2019s net position and the Government\u2019s net position?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273af448d6e8a49cc884080d64395cbe3\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is a very important distinction. New Zealand is expected to exceed its Kyoto target by 11 million tonnes, but the allocation of carbon units to foresters, as promised by New Zealand when we signed Kyoto in Japan in 1997, means that New Zealand\u2019s net position is actually a deficit of about 30 million tonnes. The claim that New Zealand does not need an emissions trading scheme because we are set to exceed our Kyoto targets ignores the reduced emissions that the scheme will deliver and the fact that the Government still carries a substantive liability from emissions growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ae1d4f91d9e4c679b28a7c65fb5a3ff\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has the Government received about the additional annual cost to the taxpayer of continuing to underwrite carbon-price risks by maintaining a 50 percent obligation under the emissions trading scheme after 2013, as the Minister indicated on 8 April he was considering?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b019860aba347d78c77509e047fe559\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is carefully balancing its Kyoto obligations with a real concern about the cost for consumers and for business. That is why we modified the scheme, which will halve the cost for consumers from 1 July this year. This Government has also indicated that if there is not significant progress internationally in countries like Australia and the United States, then it would be our intention\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c8eace29a5b4c87b25d9580aa710bbc\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was a direct and quite precise one that asked what advice the Government had received about the additional annual cost to the taxpayer of continuing a particular policy. The answer has not yet even begun to address the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228291ba6f7bd04f0b990a39f341c6111e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If I recollect, when the member carried on with his question he said the policy related to something the Minister said on a certain date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c364c1baced147fd8bb1db58f66becb7\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I was simply verifying that he had actually floated that proposal, so I was asking about the costing of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d91f3081c564f23af9dcb33bad64ebd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is saying that he floated the proposal and now he is asking about the cost of a policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0db553294df4c1bbad02b49734ab6a4\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: That was the primary part of the question, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe46b991f7a94bd681fb1c34346e832c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What I am getting is that the member is now expecting me to intervene when his question identified that the Minister floated a proposal, but he is now asking about costing a policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da93392c6dcc45579c2ee0f261d273a4\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I am asking whether it was costed when he floated it. I think it is a legitimate question. I can repeat the question if it was not heard as clearly as it might have been. I do not think there is any sting in the tail here; it is a pretty straightforward question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275a545ebf848422b98dc6ef1172f6ad4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister having heard that, I invite him to carry on with his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226774ff77c1414eddb0119e8fb2e86476\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly. This Government made a decision to halve the costs to consumers and businesses from 1 July this year. I have raised the prospect that in the event that there is not progress in Australia or the United States, we would reconsider lifting the cost for consumers and businesses on 1 January 2013. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cb835a627a04ca29ab1c5eefe3d19bf\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: At what cost?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e4ae2b9c2574f2fbb9f18d35ee793bd\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member asks what the cost of that would be. That is impossible to tell, for a very simple reason: there is no international agreement beyond 2013, so to determine the cost for New Zealand when at the moment there is no agreement beyond the Kyoto period to 2012 makes such a calculation impossible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222fa5e06413ce4fb39b494f6e69b69b61\u0022\u003EFinance, Minister\u2014Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022c90955ed05b9469595da52e2e192302c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c90955ed05b9469595da52e2e192302c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all his recent statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022885c766fcbd14616877dc359fdc8f56d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022885c766fcbd14616877dc359fdc8f56d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E That was such a good question that it should have been higher up the list. The answer is yes. In particular I stand by my statements about the mismanagement of the previous Government, which saw our tradable industries stagnate for a decade, Government spending soar, per capita GDP decline, and New Zealand go into recession a year before the rest of the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e78b7fe340245cc9bf2af8861cfeee3\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Among his recent statements, is his claim to Grey Power that he will consider restoring New Zealand Superannuation Fund contributions sooner than had been expected an acknowledgment that the Dominion Post\u2019s Vernon Small was right when he called the Minister\u2019s policy \u201Cdumb\u201D and \u201Cshort-sighted\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226477270de2c74157835bc57741f50467\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b29900adac6454b889e071264e0860b\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Amongst his recent statements, when he said yesterday that inflation was low, can he confirm that on top of another 10c-a-litre increase in the price of petrol, an increase in GST will unnecessarily push up the cost of living and make it more difficult for those who are struggling to make ends meet to get ahead?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022244f6c4f7f7b44e8b96999344ee2cb34\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member needs to wait and see the details of the tax package before he jumps to the conclusion that people will be worse off. In fact, as the Prime Minister has said a number of times, the vast majority of New Zealanders are likely to be better off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a769a58a8f14541b05f85a64c55a464\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Among his recent statements, when he says the tax system is unfair, does he then agree with TradeMe founder Sam Morgan that the system is unfair because \u201CThe people that pay the most tax are working people\u201D; if so, what measures will he take to correct that injustice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8cc670acc6845da940bfe3389aa1d78\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: One of the reasons that people like Sam Morgan can essentially pick their tax rate is the ridiculous tax structure that the previous Government put in place, which gives many opportunities to people to structure their affairs so that they can virtually pick their tax rate. I have invited Mr Morgan, if he feels uneasy in his conscience, to write out a cheque to the Inland Revenue Department and pay what he believes to be his fair share of tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dcedda9bc68f47948474b0f4a9425b93\u0022\u003EWarm Up New Zealand: Heat Smart\u2014Number of Retrofitted Houses\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u002288f9691103334a029500c8e1d9b3a461\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288f9691103334a029500c8e1d9b3a461\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: How many homes were retrofitted in March through the Warm Up New Zealand: Heat Smart home insulation scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b75bc87de66f4d7aa22fd1ca93a723e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b75bc87de66f4d7aa22fd1ca93a723e8\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to advise the House that in March 3,837 houses were retrofitted with home insulation or a clean-heating device. Since the scheme started on 1 July 2009, the very large number of 37,532 houses has received assistance under the scheme. The target for the first year was 27,000 houses, so that record has been beaten by some 10,000 houses in only 9 months of the scheme\u2019s existence to date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9661472a2b94be4b163819f4b9ec0c1\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: How many houses retrofitted so far are occupied by people on low incomes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c993e50b82244c9911697ccd8dd3d12\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: This is one of the most pleasing aspects of the scheme. So far the uptake from low-income households has been about 60 percent of the homes that have been retrofitted\u2014in other words, homes that are occupied by low-income earners. That is over 22,000 homes that will be drier, warmer, and healthier for the people who need that the most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d335f7d0f8d440199adbf7c7518b2256\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: What steps has he taken to ensure that the initial quality concerns with regard to Warm Up New Zealand: Heat Smart have been addressed, given that an audit of 570 houses that had been insulated under the scheme found that 359, or 63 percent, of them had insulation problems, half of which were regarded as serious; and what reassurance can he give to the 37,532 householders whom he has just mentioned that their houses have been insulated to an appropriate standard and have not had a slapdash job done so that he can trump up the numbers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273c4eac2f12940f2a57a77a615a631f1\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very serious question. Since the very start of the scheme we have insisted on very high standards, so the audit process\u2014and every house that is insulated undergoes an audit process\u2014has 100 checkpoints to ensure that all aspects of the job are up to standard. The issues that have been raised in some of the audits are considered to be easily rectifiable\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225856e50384ed48679bdad48a67df7ba4\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Every house is audited?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229560986358ba4950b722823c3bc03e67\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Every house is audited by the installer; that is right. Then there is the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae49cb3a070a48b0842afd29b75350da\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dccf8a5b15f4706bba95b6716f98ca6\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Those members can laugh, but the reality is that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022823ece691c9244afa76d4af5cd72b8f1\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022049f6cfb4c3a43babb3a207810ee755f\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Are we going to have a go, or not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dee51fd69bc342f6adb7b124a4fa8285\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order. The Hon Gerry Brownlee is answering the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7bfb6c5a3b24891adbbf38cb66cf2e8\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: The standards that are being achieved are extremely high compared with, for example, the situation in Australia. We have also held back payments from anybody who has a history of doing this work poorly, as well as from others who are in a position where they have had strikes issued against them. We are quite firm that if people do not rectify poorly installed insulation, they will be out of the scheme as providers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a25eb06a85404a2bb5d151ff83c4d7ba\u0022\u003ETertiary Education\u2014Student Loans, Allowances, and Course Fees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022933f57dfb31b4672976f62b40b30b759\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022933f57dfb31b4672976f62b40b30b759\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Tertiary Education: What advice has he received on those who are likely to be disadvantaged by recently announced policies regarding tertiary education with respect to student loans, allowances, and course fees?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u00227e72789417704eacaefc8a8156506672\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e72789417704eacaefc8a8156506672\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Tertiary Education):\u003C/span\u003E I have received a range of advice on a number of possible changes we are looking at making to tertiary policy. For example, the idea of introducing a stand-down period for new permanent residents and Australians before they can access a student loan has been the subject of advice. It would, obviously, have an impact on a number of Australians and new permanent residents who access student loans. It would also bring student loans into line with other Government support packages, and more into line with what New Zealanders experience in Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f21f13dc0d4f4575a0450a6f5a53acfa\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: What effect will an increase of 2.5 percent in GST and an increase in fees have on the Government\u2019s student loan liability, and does he think these increases will make it easier or harder for people to access tertiary education? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225600d2d651b441ddbcf2ac60d2534ce9\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The proposed increase in GST, should it occur, would be accompanied by a compensatory increase in student allowances. Of course, fees increase every year. The previous Government had a maximum fee increase of 5 percent for most tertiary education courses, and many fees have increased on that basis for many years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276011d2ac608457998c8f50f1aa320e7\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: How does he think part-time students will be affected by the proposed time limit on access to student loans, and how does it fit with the Government\u2019s agenda for growth in the New Zealand economy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6010ae30d65446eb225fb64553f001d\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I can inform the member that the effect on part-time students will be proportionate to the impact on full-time students. In other words, we would not be expecting part-time students to progress through their academic education to the same extent that we would expect full-time students to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298a1074478b546baaaa9d3e514af546f\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: How will increased fees for the more expensive tertiary courses, such as medicine, encourage students to choose those programmes, and what effect will the increased fees have on the diversity and supply of highly qualified New Zealanders, such as doctors, in the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022356ac3cc0d8a4ab68677fb4c2fc3a988\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I think that question assumes there would be a sizable increase in fees, and I think that is very premature. I point out that the effect of stopping increases in fees for courses that are expensive to provide, and allowing increases to occur for courses that are less expensive, has the impact of making the courses that are less expensive to provide subsidise the more expensive courses, which is hardly fair to those who are taking those courses. I also point out that the average time taken by a doctor in this country to pay off a student loan is 4 years, which is considerably less than the time taken by people in many other occupations, once they are qualified. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222bddda621fb84581b8d8527240e43c9c\u0022\u003ELegal Aid\u2014Changes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022f200b2c3b90248b69fddb3e0e943e76a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f200b2c3b90248b69fddb3e0e943e76a\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: What changes is the Government making to the legal aid system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u00229fdfb9881a784a229d38e6de3aec6582\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fdfb9881a784a229d38e6de3aec6582\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Earlier this month I announced a comprehensive reform of legal aid services, following on from Dame Margaret Bazley\u2019s report on this area. New Zealand\u2019s new legal aid system will include a new quality assurance framework for legal aid lawyers, improvements to the duty lawyer scheme, and an expansion of the Public Defence Service to Wellington, Christchurch, and Hamilton. I am confident this package of reforms will improve access to justice and help build the public\u2019s confidence in the legal aid system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246304a3e5dfc4dd68080c16211fa37d2\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister seen on his recent announcement about changes to the legal aid system? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af50071584564d909d3102d9b693b843\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen a report from the New Zealand Law Society, which has welcomed the streamlining of administration relating to grants of legal aid, and the extension of the Public Defence Service. The president of the Auckland District Law Society has also welcomed the changes, stating \u201CThe society supports any efforts to improve access to justice for disadvantaged members of the public unable to afford the services of a lawyer.\u201D I have also seen reports that the Hon Phil Goff and the Hon Lianne Dalziel have described the changes as \u201Cuseful\u201D and \u201Ca good thing\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0804d38e1e14426a06adaec8153a362\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Has he met with the members of the Manukau legal profession who had their reputations damaged as a result of Dame Margaret Bazley\u2019s report, as he indicated to the House he would in December last year; if so, has he been reassured of the integrity of the overwhelming majority of those lawyers and their ongoing commitment to report those who are not meeting the high standards required of the Bar? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c611b9ffd3ac4a15a91c42fb0c444bd3\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: As I said at the time, I am happy to meet the members of the Manukau Bar. I have just checked with my office in the last 15 minutes. To date I have not received an invitation or a request to meet them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224aa7a072032a4d4fba5b63e5dfacaed7\u0022\u003ELocal Government, Minister\u2014Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac4411ef8bf9430a996f5a8c6997fca4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac4411ef8bf9430a996f5a8c6997fca4\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Local Government: Does he stand by all his recent statements on local government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u002211ad830bd48d477fa7505096ff8f3cac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211ad830bd48d477fa7505096ff8f3cac\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, of course. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e54301f5a8843809c07b0a32e223c9d\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell Cantabrians how abolishing their vote for Environment Canterbury councillors can be reconciled with his comments on Monday that \u201Cwhen you are essentially regulating and controlling natural resources such as water and land, the people responsible should be subject to democratic control.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c904d3725ccb44478838ace4060f394b\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: Very easily. The decision made to replace the councillors of Environment Canterbury was made by Cabinet and Parliament, the members of which, each and every one of them, were elected to their position to be in Government. My concern over the Waikato River is that half of the representatives on the Waikato River Authority will not be elected by the general population but appointed by local iwi. I also note this difference from the situation with Environment Canterbury: Environment Canterbury returns to democratic elections in 2013, at the latest. That does not happen at all in the Waikato; the co-governance arrangements are for ever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270acd08959a2422cbde911a6c773afb5\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain how on Monday democratic control meant: \u201CIf the community does not like it, the community can sack them.\u201D, when 3 weeks ago democratic control meant that if the Minister did not like it, the Minister could sack them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba58bb1f368a4ac292f8ffdee12216c6\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: Au contraire. The Minister cannot sack Environment Canterbury. It actually requires Parliament to effect that change. I am sorry the member was not awake through the passage of that legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022071e25e64cf843b29548ababb16ffbb3\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e97cdb9c170740299b28d22bced14aa9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call Phil Twyford, it is my understanding that the Labour Party has had its allocation of questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac447caf853c475391d714b732ff8473\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. On behalf of the Government I am prepared to be very generous and seek leave for Mr Twyford to ask an additional question, because his questions are always so enjoyable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bb12349191744d1969188dcf79f9aa0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022605ec7d6c0c3441fa84f04f7fab081a3\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: How can he say that council-controlled organisations will strongly support local government transparency and accountability in Auckland when Local Government New Zealand said yesterday that under his model, Aucklanders cannot be sure where accountability lies, making it difficult for citizens and voters to know who to hold accountable for decisions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222de606489f42499fa9aba9c754cfd94c\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: Easy. I disagree with Local Government New Zealand on this matter, and we have had some discussions. I have to say that their understanding of the issue is growing by the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e1831f32a084830a81258b1d301a073\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: So you\u2019re right and they\u2019re wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a838e1ee17b24c5883a237a82a8ab9ac\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: No. It is not about who is right and who is wrong; it is actually about understanding the issue. I have to say that Local Government New Zealand has a much better appreciation of the role of council-controlled organisations. I also note that the issue is before the select committee, and I am looking forward to the report back from the select committee to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022086eb514e8d443b2a51c979708fb80f3\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227edc0ad38c6b47abbc905a8c368bc508\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1433cc18ff140b6b093c856d28c65c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1433cc18ff140b6b093c856d28c65c3\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce555465d97d4381948775b515742677\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: From time to time all of us make the odd mistake in this place, including me. That is no reason to make so much noise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5577588e9274336888bd059f0206c9d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I wonder whether we should take another 30 seconds to allow the instructions to come in from New York.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264f2c0c2772f45bd969ddfe2b9b9bcb6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I choose to ignore that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d8a5fadfbbb491f9cb5dca6267af540\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA\u003C/span\u003E: It was with a sense of enduring shame that when the rest of the world was signing up to the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples in 2007, the Labour Government of the time, without consultation with its own M\u0101ori caucus or with the wider M\u0101ori population, decided to oppose the declaration, thus sending a very clear statement to the world that as long as Labour was in power, New Zealand would oppose the fundamental rights and aspirations of M\u0101ori people. Labour openly declared that opposition, even though M\u0101ori had attended meetings all around the world for more than 20 years in support of the declaration, and even though the draft declaration had received the unqualified support of such national M\u0101ori icons as Sir James H\u0113nare, Dame Whina Cooper, Dame Mira Szaszy, Te Atairangikaahu, Sir Robert M\u0101huta, Hui Vercoe, Sir Paul Reeves, and Sir Hepi te Heuheu, as well as the M\u0101ori Women\u2019s Welfare League and the New Zealand M\u0101ori Council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003ESo it was with a deep sense of satisfaction from within the whole of M\u0101oridom that Labour was dumped from the Government benches 12 months later, and lost four of its precious M\u0101ori seats to an upstart party whose people had finally woken up to the fact that M\u0101ori aspirations were being strangled to death in a party of indifference. This cleared the way for the brand new M\u0101ori Party to open negotiations with the National Government, which led to yesterday\u2019s historic announcement to support the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples\u2014a document opposed vociferously by the previous Labour Government in 2007, and still opposed by Labour in 2010. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EToday I stand with pride to congratulate the M\u0101ori Party co-leader Dr Pita Sharples and his staff on the months of negotiation in the lead-up to yesterday\u2019s announcement that New Zealand would be supporting, without caveat, the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples at the opening session of the Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues in New York. On behalf of the M\u0101ori Party I congratulate Prime Minister John Key and National on the boldness of the Government\u2019s decision to work with the M\u0101ori Party in recognising that M\u0101ori do hold a special status as the indigenous people of Aotearoa, and that indigenous rights and indigenous culture are of profound importance to this country and are fundamental to our identity as a nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EAgain, on behalf of the M\u0101ori Party I acknowledge the longstanding support of the Green Party for the adoption of the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, and its commitment to the principles of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. I also acknowledge United Future for its support of the Government\u2019s decision to adopt the declaration. For the rest of this House\u2014those who would speak against this document\u2014I have some very simple questions. Why is it that opponents in this House can so comfortably sign up to international covenants on the rights of women, children, gay people, and even dogs, but be so small-minded, petty, and mean-spirited in their opposition to an international covenant on the rights of indigenous people? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThis declaration is aspirational in its wording, positive in its vision, and uplifting in its nature. The adoption of this declaration deserves a greater conclusion than I can deliver, so I leave my final words to the Hon Sir Edward Taih\u0101k\u016Brei Durie, who emailed us this morning, stating: \u201CMy congratulations to the M\u0101ori Party caucus for the Party\u2019s role in securing New Zealand support for the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Were nothing else done during the Party\u2019s lifetime, this one thing would be enough to secure for it a treasured place in Maori history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003ENotwithstanding the progress made through all the tribunal reports and court cases from the 1980s, and the consequential changes in legislation and official policy, I would still rank the day that New Zealand gave support to the Declaration as the most significant day, in advancing Maori rights, since 6th February 1840. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EI do not overlook that the Declaration has only moral force. The same is said of the Treaty. Important statements of principle established through international negotiation and acclamation, filter into the law in time, through both governments and the courts, which look constantly for universal statements of principle in developing policy or deciding cases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EMost significant for the present is the statement that recurs throughout the Declaration that indigenous people should be dealt with through their own institutions, a matter with potent implications for the Office of Treaty Settlements\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022175a4ac241c04a5a809a9010f96d2c18\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the Hon Gerry Brownlee, I remind members that when the bell goes in the general debate, that is the end of a member\u2019s contribution, regardless of who the member is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022bbf97b90d8924905ad1eaa6130cf398d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bbf97b90d8924905ad1eaa6130cf398d\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E What do Rinso, Clayton\u2019s, the DeLorean, Enron, Pan American World Airways, Ansett, Betamax, Cold Duck, and the Labour Party all have in common? They are all dead brands\u2014all dead brands. They are all disasters in their own kind. And how do we know that the Labour Party is worried about that? Well, we have been made aware of the document I have here, which is probably from Clare Curran, called the Labour Brand Survey. It has been distributed to all Labour members and supporters throughout the country and asks some very important questions: do Labour Party members want to be known as non-confrontational people? Do they want to be known as memorable people? Do they want to be known as retro people? Are they desperate to be known as clever people? No; instead, they are choosing \u201CEdgy\u201D, \u201COut there\u201D, \u201CFunky\u201D, \u201CFresh\u201D, and \u201CCool\u201D. Well, I think that if members have sat on the Labour front bench for 26 years, what better descriptions for them are there than edgy, out there, funky, fresh, and cool?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f805377bc4d4f5a8ec02b8174c0278e\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: But not retro\u2014not retro.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022119adf17b5c748d0a22db88689d5c9f3\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: But not retro. The difficulty is working out who wears what, because although I would admit that Annette King is cool, she is certainly not funky. And I think that it would be an absolute outrage for me to suggest that she is out there. But that is not all. The survey goes on to ask the question, on page 2\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b57f917b1d748eda31c46f74fcd056f\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Look at this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2b5f636893646a0ae088d9d9a91bf6b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s Phil.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f887a3cbeb54c12b4f8f05857801c28\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s many years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269c05b501dac438598f140ac7c40fa7f\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. I think that is Phil Goff, but I am not sure. It looks more like \u201CPhillipa\u201D Goff. But, anyway, the survey also goes on to ask members \u201CCan you describe Labour in six or fewer words?\u201D. Well, I have to tell this House that I cannot use the word, but I think I can come up with one word that has six or fewer letters to describe where Labour is at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI will turn now to two lovely pamphlets that the Labour Party is currently circulating around electorates. The pamphlets have inside them some simple, silly little questions that Labour is asking the public. On their fronts is a lovely picture of Labour\u2019s current leader. They are the same pamphlets, so we would think that they would have the same information, but that is except for when it comes to their back pages. On one there is a lovely p\u014Dhutukawa tree, beautiful rolling green hills, and a lake in the background. That pamphlet is for electorates like Wellington Central, Auckland Central, and every other ritzy electorate in the country. But the other pamphlet has dirty old miners\u2019 hats on the back page. That is for the West Coast, for Rongotai, and for all those hard Labour electorates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo here we have a party, so hopelessly disorganised with no single brand, that does not know whether it is nice, tough, or naughty, or whether it is funky, retro, or out there. It has no idea on any of that stuff. Just to prove how confused the party is, going into his caucus yesterday Mr Goff, the Leader of the Opposition\u2014the alternative position to the Prime Minister; the hard man who is supposed to take out the Government\u2014said \u201CActually I think John Key\u2019s quite good.\u201D He said \u201CI\u2019ve got to give it to him: he is a very good politician, very slick, very professional at what he does.\u201D Mr Goff stopped just short of saying \u201CI want to vote for him.\u201D, but I have to tell the House that that was not far off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWhen we go through this document, we see that Labour members are looking for different sorts of branding that they might apply to the party in the months ahead. Well, I have found one for them. The brand is on this page. It is \u201CPS\u201D\u2014I presume that is a Labour Party or a left-wing socialist party from some other country around the world\u2014and I think it stands for two things. It has two letters and a picture of a hand outstretched with a rose in it, so we are looking here at the postscript for the Labour Party, and the rose on its coffin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI think it will be very interesting in the next couple of weeks to see how things go, because yesterday, when it came to the issue of leadership, which we all know is on the agenda for Labour, Mr Mallard was good, and just as he used to be. He was good yesterday and said \u201CNo, no. We\u2019re not discussing that stuff.\u201D Mr Cunliffe, on the other hand, said \u201COh, well, this is an important matter, and we will be having discussions in caucus.\u201D\u2014statesmanlike, and in perfect iambic pentameters, too, I might say. They are a brand that is dead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022 data-id=\u00228d3ad8bd39c6440f8aa58673ebbd8baa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d3ad8bd39c6440f8aa58673ebbd8baa\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113na koe, Mr Speaker. E mihi kau ana ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero puta \u0101-waha a Hone; t\u0113n\u0101 koe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Speaker. I commend Hone on what he said in his address; well done.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EI was glad to see that Hone Harawira was kept on his chain. He was playing poodle, and was under strict direction from his leaders. That was not Hone talking, and he knew that what he said was wrong. It was like that frumpy \u201Cbig boy\u201D over there on the National side, the Hon Gerry Brownlee, who was barking in his speech. There is a poodle in the M\u0101ori Party seats and a bulldog in the National seats. Mr Brownlee was carrying on and nattering on about nothing. Labour is a party of all of those things he mentioned. We are a party that cares about all sorts of people, and I am not so selective as to pitch just at the rich boys, and never mind anybody else. But that is what Hone has fallen for, at the end of the day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003ELet us go back to the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, I tell Gerry. This is what the Prime Minister said quite clearly and unequivocally: \u201CI think it is important to understand that the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples is just that\u2014it is a declaration. It is not a treaty, it is not a covenant, and one does not actually sign up to it. It is an expression of aspiration; it will have no\u201D\u2014and this is the important part\u2014\u201Cimpact on New Zealand law and no impact on the constitutional framework.\u201D That is what the National Government is saying. Pita Sharples and Hone Harawira on his chain are telling us to celebrate\u2014celebrate. Celebrate what? Celebrate nothing. I will tell him, because he said we were useless bastards. That is what he said on TV.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202ec85ab3d774a0eaef8d66b7c8822cf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am on my feet, and there will be no interjections. Normally when members are clearly quoting something, I would not object too much. But the implication was that some members of this House are as the member described, and I do not think that is acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022beb603064d4b4950b00459d3cdac6712\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. What my colleague said was a direct quote from that member about members on this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e5f2c5d764b41688551c41e88a8fb27\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The point of order will be heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf3ba8416c534fb7a6bae3a34ec80c5a\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It was a quote\u2014and I think part of it was translated; a direct translation\u2014of what that member said about members on this side of the House. If we cannot say what he said about us, and refute it, we have some problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222667312785bd4674a83291307da99f4e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The point is that in this House there are some limits. I do not want to be too tight, because this is a robust debate. There are rulings that state that members cannot use a quotation to introduce unparliamentary language. I do not want to be too precious about that, because this is a place of robust debate, but when we start quoting inside the House things that have been said outside the House, that implies across the House that members might be as the member said, I think we need to be a bit careful. I ask the member to be a little cautious, and not to be too careless in what he says.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b8222fa5ac74a839b9952e82fc1a9ff\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: Mahi waha hukahuka, e Hone; t\u0113n\u0101 koe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E[It is mouth-sweetening stuff, Hone; good on you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EWhat did the Prime Minister mean when he said last week that there will be no rush to sign the declaration? Does the Prime Minister agree with the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs when he said the sign-up was unconditional? That is what the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs said. [Interruption] That is right, I say to Maurice. He is not yet back on the front bench, but that is dead right. At the end of the day, Gerry will make sure of that, and Simon will sit there and open up in the sense of the distortion that he spoke about yesterday in relation to the UN declaration. National members know that they have put the M\u0101ori Party asunder. They know that they are celebrating in disguise, and they know full well that they are using M\u0101ori Party members and milking them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EAs Minister Turia said today, this is about next year\u2019s election. Well, let us see about that, in relation to the M\u0101ori issues. I will tell Hone Harawira what the last Labour Government did. We raised the minimum wage eight or nine times. In the last period of time when National was in power, it raised the minimum wage by 37c. National is at it again with GST, accident compensation, and all those issues that are relevant to M\u0101ori. Labour brought in 14 weeks\u2019 maternity leave. It did all of those things. Labour halved the M\u0101ori unemployment rate. What does Hone Harawira have to say about carrying one of the highest unemployment rates in North Auckland? That is even though the Minister, Paula Bennett, says that we have 11,000 fewer unemployed\u2014that is benefit shuffling; we are down. What does she have to say to the 43 percent of M\u0101ori under the age of 24 who are unemployed? That is seven points off 50 percent, which would be half of all those people. It has nearly tripled since this Government has come into office. What does the UN declaration have to say about that? How will it make a difference? That is what is relevant. You know, Hone\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbb694f34a70456da9432830adf382ff\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is an experienced member. He cannot point the finger across the House and say \u201Cyou know\u201D, because the member is then referring to the Speaker. He must not do that, as it leads to disorder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221de5a66cddb84b6a85af8d4d7df58cc1\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: That member knows that, and he understands it very well. It is hurtful, having worked over a period of time with Hone Harawira, to see him being led. That is what happened here today. I am thinking hard about what we can do. What has been done for M\u0101ori? I refer to tertiary qualifications, I say to Hone. It takes M\u0101ori 1 year and 3 months longer to qualify, for whatever reason. We could blame colonisation; we could blame Gerry for being a woodwork teacher; we could blame anybody else\u2014but we will not. We are not like that. But what we will make sure of is that whoever does all this shuffling around\u2014Paula Bennett\u2014who at the end of the day will this affect? It will affect M\u0101ori, and it will affect Pacific Island people. That is what will happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EI can tell those members over there what they are saying out on the road. People are starting to doubt, big time. We get around, out on the road. It is not about votes for the M\u0101ori Party. The people think there is a shemozzle going on. The majority of this country understands the patting-poodle stuff and what National tells mainstream New Zealand. They understand that its members are very wary that they do not damage their image and are watching the polls, and that those members over there in the M\u0101ori Party do not understand that they are being taken down the road.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcba6872525e41349a9d6c476f2df949\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcba6872525e41349a9d6c476f2df949\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The major disadvantage about being speaking fourth in the general debate line-up is that the third speaker gets to use the material before I do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EIt is worth taking just a bit of time to look at this Labour brand survey. It starts like this: \u201CWe want to hear your views on the Labour brand. What follows are a series of questions aimed at discovering: what you think is essential to the Labour brand, how you\u2019d like to see the brand represented, and your views on a selection of existing brands. Thanks again for taking part. 1. Pick the values you\u2019d like to see associated with Labour. Choose as many as you like.\u201D What should be in brackets after that sentence is: \u201Cbecause we don\u2019t have a clue.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EMy colleague has set out a range of options, but she missed out a few that puzzled me. We have heard that some of the options are \u201CFuturistic\u201D, \u201CFeel good\u201D, \u201CBold\u201D, \u201CInspiring\u201D, and \u201CCheeky\u201D. I thought \u201CCheeky\u201D was an interesting option, as were \u201CDynamic\u201D, \u201CCool\u201D, \u201CModern\u201D, and \u201CHappy\u201D. \u201CUnusual\u201D is one of the options, as are \u201CArtistic\u201D, \u201CEdgy\u201D, \u201COut there\u201D, and \u201CFunky\u201D. But the one that got me absolutely flabbergasted, and that made it in halfway through the list, is \u201CSober\u201D. It asked whether members think Labour is sober. I do not know what to make of that option or why on earth any organisation would put it in as one of its core messages for consideration as part of its branding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EWhen we look closely at this survey, we see between the various categories a direct contrast between issues relating to the past, such as \u201CRetro\u201D, and matters relating to the future, such as \u201CFuturistic\u201D, \u201CEdgy\u201D, \u201COut there\u201D, and \u201CUnusual\u201D. Are they \u201CSophisticated\u201D? I particularly liked \u201CMemorable\u201D. Is the Labour Party memorable? Other options are \u201CIntegrity\u201D, \u201CInnovation\u201D, \u201CCaring\u201D, \u201CPeople\u201D, \u201CDependable\u201D, and \u201CApproachable\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EWhat does this tell us? It tells us that halfway through the term of this Government, there is a sense of deepening malaise in the Opposition ranks. Watching their faces during question time today when their leader was on his feet was a sad indictment. Clayton Cosgrove is a good little scrapper\u2014he likes to get his teeth into the odd issue and is known for putting forward a view every now and then\u2014but he was totally disengaged. His head was up; he was looking at the ceiling during question time. His eyes were wandering, he was looking at the top of the roof, and he was not the slightest bit interested in what was going on. I do not mind reading about Trevor Mallard\u2019s cycling exploits from time to time; I just wish that he would not write about them during question time when his leader is on his feet trying to hold the Government to account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I found interesting about Mr Brownlee\u2019s contribution was his mention of Phil Goff praising the political skills of the Prime Minister. Phil Goff at the moment reminds me of one of those dad characters from a 1980s sitcom, and not just because Family Ties first aired when he was in his first term in Parliament. He is following a well-used formula called the \u201Ccentra eccentrics\u201D formula, where one straight character is the anchor for all of the other characters, who ultimately upstage him. While Mr Goff is nervously describing his unpopularity, we see a range of characters appearing in larger-than-life formats. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EDavid Cunliffe was understandably moved by his visit to the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Museum, but his Dominion Post column yesterday suggests that he is forgoing his finance role for one presenting the History Channel. Some of his prose in that article reminded me of some of his earlier work from \u201CI am Harvard\u201D. I have also come across another delightful piece, entitled simply \u201CSeasons\u201D. I am no literary critic\u2014I will leave those matters to the House\u2014but it goes like this: \u201CAlmost without warning, branches that just a few weeks before were dead, dry twigs, are crowned with the lushest green foliage. Spring is brief. As a delicate balance between irresistible forces wrestling for control\u2014it gives way, explosively, to Summer.\u201D It sounds decidedly like the leadership crisis in the middle of the Labour Party. He is a lead actor in his own show. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EAs for old Mr Jones over here, his continual calls of \u201Ch\u014Dh\u0101\u201D in the House every time he gets to his feet remind me of Al Pacino in Scent of a Woman. He has refused to rule out a leadership challenge, stating: \u201Cthat lies somewhere between our caucus and providence,\u201D. Providence is also known as the work of God, so I guess that is his natural modesty continuing to come through!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022aad5df49abe0493696f7bedfb9fa1496\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aad5df49abe0493696f7bedfb9fa1496\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E In June of last year Environment Canterbury paid a visit, accompanied by the police, to the property of Mr Tim Smith, and 21 charges were subsequently brought against Mr Smith, who has subsequently pleaded guilty on all counts. Mr Smith\u2019s brother is the Hon Dr Nick Smith, the Minister for the Environment, who has recently sponsored legislation through this House sacking Environment Canterbury. A conflict of interest, therefore, arises. The conflict arises because the Cabinet Manual says so. It says so very clearly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003ELet me quote paragraph 2.60. Paragraph 2.60 states: \u201CA conflict of interest may be pecuniary \u2026 or non-pecuniary (concerning, for example, a member of the Minister\u2019s family.) A conflict of interest may be direct or indirect.\u201D So a conflict of interest is there all right, but the question is how the conflict was handled. Again, the Cabinet Manual gives us some guidance. It states that when a conflict of interest arises and it does not impinge on the Minister\u2019s own portfolio, then the Minister should declare the conflict of interest. It then states: \u201CHaving declared the interest, the Minister should either withdraw from the discussion or seek the agreement of colleagues to continue to take part.\u201D So if it is not within the Minister\u2019s own portfolio that the conflict of interest arises, the conflict should still be declared, and the Minister may or may not choose to leave the Cabinet meeting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EIn this case, the conflict of interest directly impinged on the Minister for the Environment\u2019s portfolio. Indeed, it was probably the most important thing on his plate at the time. At the time there was probably no bigger issue in the environment portfolio than whether to sack a rather large regional council. Again, the Cabinet Manual gives guidance as to what to do in those circumstances. Paragraph 2.70(c) states: \u201CA Minister with a conflict of interest concerning a particular issue within his or her portfolio may, with the agreement of the Prime Minister, transfer responsibility for that issue to another Minister.\u201D I know, because I have had issues transferred from me or to me on many different occasions\u2014more than a dozen, I would think. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EI do not think that that happened in this case. I do not think that the Minister for the Environment transferred the portfolio; I will say why in a minute. It is important to note that a conflict of interest does not cause the Minister to behave badly. The fact that a conflict of interest arises does not mean that the Minister necessarily performs badly in pursuit of that conflict of interest, but what does matter is that the Minister cannot say that he did not behave badly because he did not take himself out of the action in respect of this conflict of interest. That is bad Cabinet practice\u2014pure and simple. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EHow can I be sure, when I do not sit around the Cabinet table, that the Minister did not transfer responsibility to another Minister? Well, because legislation resulted, and the legislation was in the name of the Minister, and the Minister involved was the Minister in the chair in this Chamber during the Committee stage and was the predominant Minister shepherding the legislation through. That is really bad practice. It is not just a sort of bad manners thing; it leaves the Minister vulnerable to the accusation that he did behave badly, and it leaves him vulnerable to not being able to prove that he did not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThat sort of thing is becoming a feature of this Government. We saw it just yesterday in the House with the Minister of Agriculture and the response that the Prime Minister gave to a series of questions from a member of the Green Party. I am putting on the table my concern about the slackness of Cabinet processes in this Government. I do not think that conflicts of interest have been managed at all well in this Government. They can be very awkward. They can be very awkward. When dealing with M\u0101ori land issues, sometimes half the frigging Cabinet used to get up and leave, including a bunch of P\u0101keh\u0101s. That certainly was the case with the South Island Landless Maoris legislation I was responsible for. Certainly, if something involving Brierley\u2019s arose 10 years ago, there would be a bit of a railway station effect as Cabinet Ministers left. I do not think that is happening in this Cabinet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EI think that this Cabinet is taking an easy approach to managing conflicts of interest, and I am putting this on the record now because I intend to question the Prime Minister as time goes on about the management of conflicts of interest in this Government. I do not think it is up to scratch. I do not think enough attention is being paid to the propriety of governance decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00220d1a8c677f764c72bad7a19ed9bdcaa1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d1a8c677f764c72bad7a19ed9bdcaa1\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Now that we have heard from \u201CAngry Smurf\u201D, we understand why the Labour Party is so desperately\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0db180c234540be9d7432b3fd4a458f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Did I hear the member use a name that is not a member\u2019s name to refer to a member?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225de1cd2442d04688be67ada128dee32d\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279c36e6857404a2a92535e9dc8598058\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member did so, then I ask her to withdraw. That is not acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c931eb1423c4cd7b47351df95ccbb01\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw. For the last 18 months we have seen the Labour Party desperately trying to reinvent itself. We almost heard the conversation around the boardroom table when Labour members were telling Phil Goff that he was not making any traction and he needed to reinvent himself. They told him to wear more leather, get on a bike, and get out there into the heartland. They told him to visit pubs on that bike, and they would see how it went. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EMy advice to Phil Goff is quite simple. It is called being true to oneself, and it seems to come through each time. I would say to Mr Goff that he should be true to himself about the fact that he is an \u201CSPM\u201D\u2014a stale, pale male\u2014and that it is nothing to be ashamed of. We see people all over the world embrace their inner selves and get away with it. As Mr Goff travels around the country, desperately trying to reinvent himself and sending out a Labour survey that says things like: \u201CLet\u2019s see ourselves as retro and edgy.\u201D and \u201CDo you see us as funky?\u201D, we see that it is not really working for him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EFirst of all, we saw Phil Goff \u201CThe Paratrooper\u201D, who came sailing in out of a plane, and that did not really work for him. Then we saw him as \u201CThe Farmer\u201D, when he stuck a lamb on his shoulder, and we all remember that. Quite frankly, any farmer knows that when people stick lambs on their shoulders, all that will happen is the lambs will pee down their backs. But Phil Goff went for that angle. Then he went for the \u201CBiker Dude\u201D. We saw the leather and the cruising up and down the country. I can hear the conversations. I wonder whether he is like the Lone Ranger. If Phil Goff is the Lone Ranger, then I wonder whether there is a Tonto uniform for Shane Jones. That is where we are heading. It is about ditching the spin and embracing who one truly is, and, we never know, Labour members might find that being true to themselves means people believe them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EI can see Phil Goff and \u201CSlick\u201D Rick Barker pulling up on their bikes to the pubs with Annette King in the car in the background, trundling along behind, and the people in the pubs saying: \u201CWoohoo! Here they are to change our lives.\u201D Those people will be sitting there filling in a Labour survey about whether Labour is retro, funky, or all that. Quite frankly, is it any surprise that we are seeing such an absolute display? On Facebook, in conjunction with this, Phil Goff put up a nice photo of himself as the young, hip, new face of the Labour Party. The photo shows how truly retro and funky Phil Goff really is. It is a great start to the programme. It was a nice way to reinvent himself and to find out who he can be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EI simply say that when we hear the rhetoric and the questions that are coming from the Labour Party, we see that there is something simple in all of the messaging. It is that we cannot continue the way we are. We cannot continue to pour extra millions and millions of dollars into our communities, like we have for the previous 10 years, and expect to see different outcomes. We are seeing dysfunction in some of our families and communities that is getting worse and more serious. I say to those people who think it does not affect them\u2014and there are some New Zealanders who sit back and say: \u201CThat is them, this is us, and we are sitting here.\u201D\u2014that it does affect them. If there is such dysfunction in a family that they are hurting each other and hurting their children, then imagine what they are doing to their street, to their community, and to their country because they simply have nothing invested in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003ETo say that we are going to do some stuff differently, and to say that we will take some of the power out of Wellington and put it back into our communities and let them decide how they do it through programmes like Wh\u0101nau Ora, and contracting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022452862b820384efe9746a94aa91b767e\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s where it has been for years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223986018570a34405938461206d29b5f1\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The member opposite yells out that that is how it has been. For 10 years we saw more money going in and we saw more box ticking required from Wellington, but we did not see outcomes. We have more children being abused and neglected than we have ever had, we have more dysfunction in our families, and we have had 10 years of increases in benefit dependence, and that has driven society backwards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221c5e1b191d947fb9b462128f4fe917d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: What nonsense!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a114dae162964e689024980cb83a3c1d\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Let me give the member some evidence of that. In December 2000 there were 33,560 people on the sickness benefit, and in December 2008 there were 50,896 people on the sickness benefit. Over 45,000 people have been on the invalids benefit for 5 years or more. That is entrenched welfare dependency. This Government will not sit back and let it happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce2461ddb03242e7a8fd56315470319f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce2461ddb03242e7a8fd56315470319f\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E We clearly have a problem in New Zealand when we have just announced the Government\u2019s ratifying of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples but even within the Government, even within this Parliament, we have such a widely divergent view of what it means. On the one hand, the Prime Minister says that it is of no practical effect, and that it is aspirational. On the other hand, MP Hone Harawira says that it is of enormous impact because, as Mai Chen says, it will inform the courts, it will inform the Waitangi Tribunal, and it will inform political discourse for years to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EI believe that Mr Harawira is right, because words have to mean something. The words of the articles of the declaration are very, very clear in what they say, but I do not believe for a minute that the majority of New Zealanders agree with the sentiment set out in that declaration. I do not believe they want to live in a country where we are divided into two: those who are indigenous and have a separate set of rights and privileges, and everyone else. I certainly do not want to live in such a country. It is very clear when we read the articles that they say that indigenous people should be able to have political autonomy. Well, the Prime Minister says that that is an aspiration, but is it truly an aspiration for New Zealand that M\u0101ori people within New Zealand can have their own political structures, their own State? I say no. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EArticle 26 says that indigenous people have the right to the land and the resources that they traditionally owned or occupied. Clearly, if we look at that, we see that that is all the land and resources of New Zealand. We have followed a process where that land has been alienated, sometimes unjustly, and we are working towards fixing that through the Treaty. But this article does not allow for that; it says all the land and resources traditionally owned or occupied should be returned to the indigenous people. That is why Helen Clark as Prime Minister refused to ratify the declaration. She would sign up to anything from the UN that was put in from of her, but not this declaration; Parekura Horomia said it was incompatible with the democratic processes and the fundamental laws of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EWe cannot get around this by saying: \u201CDon\u2019t worry. Nod, nod; wink, wink. We will ignore it.\u201D What sort of integrity do we have as a country and as a Government to sign something that we do not believe in, have no intention of honouring, and do not accept? And what sort of approach do we have to M\u0101ori in New Zealand when we sign something without meaning that it sounds a bit like 1840 all over again? I believe that the fact we have such divergent views on this matter is a cause for division in New Zealand. Hone Harawira clearly has a view of what it means, but the Government has a different view. Well, that is a cause for discord and disharmony. Why would we sign up to something that would cause such discord and disharmony? And why do it under the cover of darkness, covertly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003EThe ACT Party has been shocked and appalled, because when we signed up to support a National-led Government, it never occurred to us that National would depart so radically from its founding philosophy, and its election manifestos over many years, of having one law for all New Zealand with everyone being treated equally. I believe that that was a founding principle of the National Party, and that is why we are so concerned. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022 data-id=\u00225ae4c93ddddf44bdaf78ee89541d7620\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ae4c93ddddf44bdaf78ee89541d7620\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Taking a completely different tack from that of the previous speaker, I will talk about economic growth. For me, ensuring there is economic growth is absolutely vital for New Zealand, because that is how we will provide the jobs that will keep our young people here, which is what we need in order for there to be a strong future for New Zealand. We want to keep young people here, because we also want to pay for our health, education, and law and order, and for the care of our environment. People need to start thinking seriously about how we can achieve that. Do they really want to leave a financial millstone around the necks of their children and grandchildren, or do they want to get behind the more aspirational leadership of the Prime Minister, John Key, and the Deputy Prime Minister, Bill English? They are holding New Zealand steady during the most serious, tough economic times that we have experienced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EWe inherited empty coffers, which were absolutely savaged and ravaged by Clark, Cullen, and their cronies, supported by Phil Goff and the rest of the Labour members who are here still in the House. The Labour members did not have a care or a thought about securing the future for New Zealanders and for all of the young people whom we so desperately need to stay in this country. Clark and Cullen, supported by Goff and all their other Labour cronies, spent up large, and it was a case of to hell with the consequences. So it is no wonder that Labour has no message. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EIt is no wonder that Labour members are out there trying to re-brand themselves. What are they doing? They are even asking questions about what people think are the essential elements of Labour\u2019s visual identity. They are asking whether that identity is a red flag or other symbols. I suggest the Labour members look at some other symbols. They are also talking about essential graphic elements: the flag, fern, green, blue, stars, Pasifika, and M\u0101ori. I cannot believe it. We all know about the moon and the stars. Labour just does not have a message. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister, John Key, and the Deputy Prime Minister, Bill English, are two of the most outstanding political managers that New Zealand has ever had. I hate to think where we would be today if it were not for their outstanding leadership. Frankly, we would be up the proverbial creek. Labour does not have a clue about how to manage money; everybody knows that. I would not even put Labour in charge of a piggy bank. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EPhil Goff does not understand how superannuation works. The Minister of Finance, Bill English, has taken great pains to repeatedly explain it to him, but he just does not get it. So I will explain yet again that a combination of tax cuts and other adjustments has seen New Zealand superannuation payments increase significantly: by $100 a fortnight in the hand for a married couple. I will repeat that, because Goff does not get it. I think everybody else does, but clearly Labour does not get it. That means an additional $100 a fortnight in the hand for a married couple receiving New Zealand superannuation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EThe Hon Bill English went on to explain the situation further for the benefit of the Leader of the Opposition, who clearly has no idea what he is talking about on this issue. Let me explain once again that it is quite clearly evident that people understand that the current Labour leader has no understanding of what is happening with regard to New Zealand superannuation. If GST is increased, there would be a once-only increase in inflation of just over 2 percent. After-tax New Zealand superannuation rates would be increased on the day of any GST increase by that amount. Do those members get it? In order to meet other and ongoing price increases, the usual annual inflation adjustment would be made to superannuation rates, so that superannuitants\u2019 spending power was preserved. We have to say that in quite simple, clear, plain English for the benefit of simple minds, but it does not seem to reach through to the Opposition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EFinally, any personal income tax cuts would also increase the amount of superannuation that people received in the hand. Therefore, superannuitants who rely on New Zealand superannuation would be better off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003ELabour members should listen up and understand the message. I take Trevor Mallard as an example. What does he blog about to the New Zealand public? All that he does is to think about the time at which the Prime Minister and his Ministers actually turn up to work. I tell members to look at one of his blogs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d67bf492d81449e9a879ff0953c49e12\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, very focused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c30ebe82fa474d889143dd6295e1cdff\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE\u003C/span\u003E: That is the level of focus of Trevor Mallard. What does that say about the Opposition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u002266705aaa4aa64c4ba34c5a87f8179549\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266705aaa4aa64c4ba34c5a87f8179549\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E For members of the public who are listening, that was the state of the nation speech from Sandra Goudie, the member of Parliament for Coromandel. It is impossible, almost, not to like her in a lot of ways, for her substantial contribution in that respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EToday in the general debate we have heard from the Minister for Economic Development, at a time when our economy is still very fragile. We have heard from the Minister of Justice, at a time when law and order is out of control and we have a record number of murders in our country. We have also heard from the Minister for Social Development and Employment, at a time when the employment rate is the highest it has been in 10 years. But from those three Ministers we have not heard anything at all about the policies they are pursuing for the country to try to address the crises that exist in their particular portfolio areas. All we have heard from them was their obsession with the Labour Party\u2019s rebranding exercise. If, after 18 months in Government, those members have run out of talking about their policies, and if all they want to do is talk about the Labour Party, then we know that we are absolutely on the right track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThat is not the first time that political parties have looked at their brand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b84a3d4120724dfe9ebbe1ef2666cffc\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: You need help so we\u2019re helping you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228837fe0ab9744be4b38b3771cf437caa\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: I remember\u2014long before Mr Quinn took an interest in politics, so at least 2 years ago\u2014the National Party taking on the Coldplay song \u201CClocks\u201D from Chris Martin, without any permission or copyright from the band Coldplay. John Key was being introduced all around the country as that song was being played on his DVD. His DVD was bright and shiny but hollow in the middle, which I always thought was quite reflective of the Prime Minister\u2019s political principles in that particular respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI will take up some of the issues that Mr Hodgson has come up with today, with regard to conflicts of interest. But before I do I will touch on the issues that some speakers have mentioned with regard to the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. We have seen no better example in the last 2 days of the troubling matter of this policy than the responses of the Government itself. Catholics believe in three Gods in one\u2014the Trinity. In New Zealand we have three parties in one, in the Government. But one of the points about three in one is that they are meant to speak with one voice. In New Zealand we have the M\u0101ori Party, who has said that signing up to this declaration is the most amazing victory for M\u0101ori people ever, and that M\u0101ori should be swinging from the lamp posts in the streets, so happy should they be about it. Another member of the Government, the ACT Party, has told us that it is the end of the world that the Government has signed up to the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. The Prime Minister himself, from the National Party, has said that it does not matter, it is aspirational, and it is non-binding. But he was not able to answer Mr Goff\u2019s question about a single thing that would change for life in New Zealand as a result of our taking on that declaration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThat goes to the heart of the problem. If something does not mean anything, why sign up for it? If we sign up for something, we should have a consistent view about what it means. I say to Mr Harawira and the M\u0101ori Party\u2014and I would say to Mr Te Ururoa Flavell, but I know that he is in other places at the present time\u2014that when things actually count for M\u0101ori on policies, that has an effect on M\u0101ori people living in New Zealand every single day. An example is representation every single day on the Auckland super-city, on which the M\u0101ori Party was rolled by the National Party. The M\u0101ori Party failed to change the mind of the National Party. M\u0101ori members cannot point to a single thing in this declaration that makes any difference for M\u0101ori in work. The declaration does not put a single unemployed M\u0101ori back into a job, it does not lift a single dollar an hour in a wage for M\u0101ori in our economy, and it does not improve M\u0101ori representation around council tables or here in Parliament. That is why we are saying the declaration does not mean anything; that is where John Key is right. He has agreed to ratify something he does not believe in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EWe know about the National Party; it was the great party of \u201CIwi/Kiwi\u201D. It was the great party of \u201Cno deals: the beaches are for everyone\u201D. When Bill English was Leader of the Opposition he paid for Parliamentary Service - funded billboards outside every airport in New Zealand. That party also campaigned on \u201Cone standard of citizenship for all\u201D. I listened to Simon Power give his speech in Parliament yesterday. If a Labour Government member had got up and said those words, the National Party would have been right out there; they would not have even bothered with the dog whistle. They would have gone right on to talkback radio and said that the Labour Party was giving New Zealand away to M\u0101ori. Paul Quinn laughs and smirks because he knows that that is absolutely right. National members are statesmen when they are in Government, but when they sit in Opposition they are divisive. That is why they sign up to these deals that mean nothing for M\u0101ori. And for Hone Harawira and the M\u0101ori Party to act as thought they have achieved some great thing is absolutely unbelievable given the record and what is happening for policies in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI have written to you, Mr Speaker, about a matter that I do not want to go into today. It is a question of privilege with regard to the declaration of pecuniary interests of members of Parliament. I do not want to go into the details of that until I have had a response from you. But there is a wider issue that has been reported in the media, which I do want to touch on, and that is the funding of legal expenses for members of Parliament by the Parliamentary Service. Section 4.53 of the Cabinet Manual makes it clear that if a Minister has been represented at the expense of the Crown and costs or damages are awarded in the Minister\u2019s favour, then those monies should be regarded as public funds and paid into a Crown or departmental bank account unless Cabinet directs otherwise. That is a very good principle under which we are governed, and an example of what should be happening in the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u00220c60f37435fb47679be46d9d496abc87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c60f37435fb47679be46d9d496abc87\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to speak during this general debate. We have just got the Labour Brand Survey, and as I turn to the first page I see that the first question is: \u201CCan you describe Labour in six (or fewer) words?\u201D. In describing Labour, I would say that it wasted and squandered the best times. That is why the Labour Opposition is in the doldrums. Labour is doomed. It is destined for political oblivion because of the way it wasted and squandered the very best times that New Zealand has experienced over the last 30 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EWhen that member on the other side, Darren Hughes, resumed his seat, he had really identified the problem on the Opposition benches. Labour is very much like an empty drum. When it is beaten it creates confusion. What we see in the House is that there is a clear choice for New Zealanders. Do people want focus, direction, and purpose, or will people look again at what Labour offers? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003ELet us look at what Labour offers. There is no clear message or direction. What we saw over the last 9 years was a waste and squandering of the very best times. It would be easy to go into how that occurred when we look at the areas of education, health, and law and order, but, really, the problem the Opposition has is at the top. We know that when there is confusion and disarray, it is all at the top. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EThe problem for Labour is that it has a demoralised leader who has difficulty with identifying himself, and it is likewise with the front-benchers. Phil Goff used to lead off the debate when Labour was in Government. He was considered a big hitter, even though he was outside the country most of the time. However, leadership does not necessarily fit well with people when they move into another role. What we have seen is that Phil Goff came in like a lion and he has gone out like a lamb. He has reduced his own persona to mediocrity. He accompanies demonstrations; he does not lead demonstrations. He rides on buses and motorbikes. He is so much the average man that he goes around totally unnoticed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EThe other day we got a bit of an insight into how Phil Goff is thinking on the inside. He is quite envious of the Prime Minister, John Key. He praised John Key\u2019s political skills and he nearly went as far as saying he would vote for Mr Key. So we can understand that there is a lot of disarray over on the Labour benches\u2014they are in a demoralising situation. One thing about Phil Goff is that he is willing to learn, but when we look at the rest of the Opposition front bench, we see that they have not yet realised that they are in Opposition. What are left are the remnants of a visionless, failed Labour Party. Labour was lazy in Government and it is lazier in Opposition. On this side of the House is a Government that has clear messages and well-designed plans. This Government is working on those focus plans to restore this country\u2019s economy. Who is doing that? Of course, it is a National-led Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003ELet us have a look at taxation. In my view, there is no better way to leave money in the provinces and the regions than to leave it with the people who worked hard to earn it, whether they be wage earners, employers, or investors. When we send money to a Government department, we expect, with blind faith, that it will be used in the best possible way. We are looking forward to 20 May and to a Budget that will reset the incentives for taxation so that it is about enterprise, hard work, investment, and saving\u2014everything that is contrary to what Labour did in Government. It encouraged speculation, sloth, and poor practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EWe are very enthusiastic with regard to 20 May, when we will see a major step forward. Unfortunately, because of the problems that Labour faces at the moment, it puts off all the hard decisions. The Resource Management Act is one of the things\u2014now it is benefiting the regions immensely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a78bbaba373a47a99c312f1bd4d16bca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a78bbaba373a47a99c312f1bd4d16bca\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E When I need to buy laundry powder, I go to the supermarket. I go to the right aisle and I check out all of the products that are available. I look at the effectiveness, the environmental and ethical dimensions, and the price of each product, and I choose the one that best meets my needs. How dumb would it be if all of the laundry powder manufacturers queued up to offer me their products one by one? If the first one came and I said yes, then all of the others could go away; if I said no, then the next one would come, and I could continue that way until I bought something. It would not make sense for soap powder and it does not make sense for power generation schemes, yet that is precisely the method that we use to determine power generation schemes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe problem in the soap powder example is that I would have no way of knowing which is the best of the products that are being offered to me and no way of knowing what the total range would be. That is precisely the problem for power generation. The only schemes that get to be considered are those that best meet the purpose of profit maximisation of the power companies, not those that best meet the public good. Very often those two purposes will not be aligned. Furthermore, it is currently forbidden rather than encouraged for the merits of, for example, two competing schemes to be compared. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EIt is a ridiculous situation and it is currently well illustrated on the West Coast and northern Buller, where a company called Hydro Developments Ltd has received resource consent for an ingenious power generation scheme that involves dropping water from the Stockton Plateau down to sea level and using the drop to generate electricity. The scheme that is proposed by Hydro Developments would have a net positive environmental impact. If that scheme goes ahead, along with the Arnold Valley scheme, which is already consented, and the existing generation the West Coast would be self-sufficient in electricity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EIt is a worthy goal, but the consents have been appealed, most notably by two State-owned enterprises, Meridian Energy and Solid Energy. In both cases the grounds of the appeals look spuriously weak. Understandably, members of the public have come to the conclusion that both of the appeals may have more to do with rival schemes owned by those two State-owned enterprises. Solid Energy\u2019s scheme is broadly similar to that of Hydro Developments, and it is a matter of extreme regret that the State-owned enterprise has refused offers of mediation from the chief executive of the Buller District Council. I would like to hear from the Minister for State Owned Enterprises as to what mechanisms he has in place to rein in the apparently unethical behaviour of both of these State-owned enterprises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe shortcomings of our current decision-making framework are best illustrated by the Meridian Energy scheme. Its plan is to desecrate one of the most valuable and treasured places in the entire country, the M\u014Dkihinui River. Meridian Energy intends to build an 85-metre-high dam and a 14-kilometre-long lake. It intends to inundate around 300 hectares of our most precious forest ecosystem in New Zealand. According to Meridian Energy\u2019s own assessment, the conservation values and recreation values are second to none in the New Zealand conservation estate and cannot be offset. The impact of this scheme can never be reversed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EA rational decision-making framework would say that, given that either of these schemes would make the West Coast self-sufficient, we should be able to compare the one that has the net positive impact on the environment with the one that has a catastrophic, irreversible impact. Kate Wilkinson has this matter in her hands. She has the chance to refuse the land swap that is proposed by Meridian Energy and that is recommended against by the local conservation board. I have heard her say that she loves the conservation estate of this country as much as anyone. This is one of the most important parts of that estate, and I say to Kate that it is time for her to show the love.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022174eb0c054904ea48923c0bbc967d126\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022174eb0c054904ea48923c0bbc967d126\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E I do not know whether it is just me, but I am feeling a little edgy at the moment\u2014sober, but edgy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbee2dad43954f249536616cef089e61\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re looking very edgy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd647c3798e74322b84d7025b7c67856\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe it is the brown suit and the branding; I do not know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI want to talk about how lucky we are in New Zealand to live in this great country, which has a mature democracy. It is a democracy where the big parties\u2014Labour and National\u2014can come together on big issues and we can agree. We can get cross-party consensus on things like our antinuclear policy and international free trade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EIt has been very pleasing to see this week that we have come together on a core plank of the Government\u2019s policy and success. Phil Goff has made it very clear what a great Prime Minister we have in John Key. He said: \u201CLook, we can learn a lot from this guy.\u201D I agree with Phil Goff. John Key is a great leader. He is a great Prime Minister. Why is that? What is making Phil Goff look to John Key? It could be something to do with the 54:33 lead in the polls\u2014about 21 percentage points. They are probably 21 good reasons why Phil Goff is feeling a little down at the moment. Another figure we could go with is 54:8, but that would be a bit mean. I agree with Paula Bennett that we are talking about someone who is trying to reinvent himself. Phil Goff has been getting out on the Triumph motorbike and trying it with the big red bus. The National Party has a bit of advice for this guy. He needs a bit more than a big boys\u2019 toys campaign to be the leader of an Opposition that is doing very well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EDuring this debate we have heard a lot about \u201CDRIP\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229014d578501b458ab21605847d5f6b29\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218e5b70b9a5247cba37eb51fd2167a41\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Paul Quinn that I am not talking about the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. I am not talking about something that has only a symbolic effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229807f0fef6e948498c158e5d58b2f58f\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: What are you talking about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258fd66832c4b4a3bb740b78022ae0198\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I am talking about the Leader of the Opposition, Phil Goff. What does \u201CDRIP\u201D stand for? It could be that \u201Cd\u201D stands for \u201Cdon\u2019t\u201D, \u201Cr\u201D for \u201Creally\u201D, \u201Ci\u201D for \u201Cideas\u201D, and \u201Cp\u201D for \u201Cpolls\u201D\u2014\u201CPhil I don\u2019t really have any idea what to do about the polls Goff\u201D. I say to Phil Goff that that is all right, because neither does anyone else in the Labour Party. If they did, he would not be the leader for very long. What we have here in \u201CDRIP\u201D is more than a policy and it is more than symbolic, it is actually a condition that could be with the Labour Party for quite some time yet. Labour members may have \u201CDRIP\u201D\u2014\u201CI don\u2019t really have any idea what to do about the polls\u201D\u2014for some time yet. Of course, I could be wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221df6891c63c9464eaca02aa9848772be\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: No, they\u2019re out organising a barbecue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229464e4d556de4859938be4882894d069\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they probably are. As I say, they are not really sure which drip should replace the current drip. But \u201CDRIP\u201D could stand for other things, such as \u201Cdevastated really at how invincible the Prime Minister is\u201D. Of course, the \u201Ci\u201D could stand for \u201Cinfallible\u201D or for all sorts of other things, but it is clear that we have some drips in the Labour Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI do not want to be cruel, and I have already made the point that it is good that there is cross-party consensus on these things, but I refer to some of Labour\u2019s allies. The Standard, which is a well-known left-wing propaganda blog, has been getting in on the act. Today\u2019s blog states: \u201CCall in Malcolm Tucker, we\u2019ve got a live one\u201D. It goes on to state that Phil Goff is \u201CToo busy heaping praise on John Key. Calling him a \u2018good politician\u2019. Saying he deserves \u2018credit where credit\u2019s due\u2019. One News asks if Goff is losing his marbles. 3 News wonders if he\u2019s voting National in 2011.\u201D\u2014that is a very fair question\u2014\u201CMe, I wonder if he\u2019s angling for a job with the Herald.\u201D We can see quite clearly that the Labour Party is adrift. It is a rudderless ship on the ocean of politics, if you like. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EHere in National we are not worrying about whether we are retro, cheeky, edgy, sober, futuristic, or any of those things; we are just getting on with the business of running this country. We are a party that has a credible plan. We have a plan for the future of the economy of this country. We want to take this country forward. As a first-term member, if I could give Phil Goff some advice about what to do, it would be to emulate John Key, to get out and talk to people, and to do things in a straightforward\u2014actually, I am letting the secret out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022da1c357efde9450c8e88648bbf91128b\u0022\u003EElectoral (Disqualification of Convicted Prisoners) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227ad3b19d4dd0450288839b44d852ec63\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000352\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 17 March.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022 data-id=\u0022428883acf0c4441da449aea0e8c64f34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022428883acf0c4441da449aea0e8c64f34\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN (National):\u003C/span\u003E In the remaining time I have, I want to address the report of the Attorney-General in respect of this bill. In so doing, I preface my remarks by saying that the Attorney-General is a man of great integrity, courage, and enormous intellect. He may prove to be one of New Zealand\u2019s finest as time passes. Certainly, he is the best Attorney-General we have had in the last 10 years. But like all good Celtic Catholic men, there are times when we agree to disagree. In paragraph 11 of his report he says that the bill appears to suggest that anyone sentenced to any period of imprisonment is a serious offender. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229410662f2c154585aab9d9f887a9c90e\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: I wouldn\u2019t actually refer to Celtic Catholic men at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282bc2060f27c49b8a536078dffc32147\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Lianne Dalziel that in paragraph 12 he goes on to claim that the above statement is questionable and that non-serious offenders will be disenfranchised; for example, fines defaulters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003EWhat the report leaves unstated is that the only reason fines defaulters end up in prison is because they refuse to pay their fines. A former Minister, the Hon Rick Barker, answered a question for oral answer on behalf of the then Minister of Corrections and said that the number of offenders being given custodial sentences in lieu of fines reflected the importance the Government puts on offenders being held to account for their actions, and that a custodial sentence is obviously a harsh sentence for serious fines defaulters. The simple fact is that terms of imprisonment are imposed for some offences that one might consider minor, but people are not imprisoned for those offences unless they become serious, such as not paying, on a serial basis, fines that are due. One might say that there are many people who have committed serious crimes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4b6be82a87b48ac9e9a20f3b7579e22\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired, but he does get a reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dbd027742734e6e962dc79eec24ff5e\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN\u003C/span\u003E: Is that right? We look forward to the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022eff39271b2604f2eb397970a3ba5eb2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eff39271b2604f2eb397970a3ba5eb2c\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to advise the House that the Labour Opposition will be opposing the Electoral (Disqualification of Convicted Prisoners) Amendment Bill. I do not think any mock outrage on the other side of the House will cut any mustard on this side of the House. We know why this bill is being introduced: it is called dog-whistle politics. There is nothing worse in this House than to see matters of substance raised in a debate such as this. I take the strongest possible exception to using an amendment to electoral law to argue this dog-whistle position to attack people who are in prison at a particular time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThis matter has a very, very strong history to it. It was the subject of consideration in 1986 by the Royal Commission on the Electoral System. During the royal commission\u2019s consideration of our electoral system, it raised the issue that no prisoner could vote when that prisoner was in jail on election day. That is how the law applied at that particular time. That was the concern that the royal commission addressed, and it was ahead of its time. The royal commission was several years ahead of the passage of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. The New Zealand Bill of Rights Act is what led to the Crown Law Office writing the opinion that the member seems to think Chris Finlayson wrote all by himself, but that is by the by. The point I make is that the royal commission, which considered this issue in depth\u2014and did not have the benefit of New Zealand being subject to the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act\u2014decided that it was not correct to say to people that they do not have the right to vote if they are in prison on election day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe question was raised in 1993, when changes to the Electoral Act were being proposed. In fact, the Solicitor-General at that time, John McGrath, advised the Government that denying all prisoners the right to vote was a breach of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act by that stage. So the Government of the day\u2014a National Government\u2014under a very good Minister of Justice, Doug Graham, considered the whole question in the light of our obligations under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. It was said that imposing a limitation across the board on those rights could not be justified. The limit was arbitrary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243100938ce924b0ebfab3113c2917c0e\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: So why did it give 3 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4cb0c43fdcb4c3fb95948056c12906b\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: The member should read the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. It says that a limit cannot be arbitrary. In this case, the reason that it was arbitrary was because it did not take into account the seriousness of the offence. A person convicted of a minor offence, simply because of timing, lost the right to vote for 3 years, whereas someone convicted of a more serious offence might not have lost the right to vote at all. That was the unfairness of the situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI will talk about the right to vote. People talk about the right to vote. May I recast that a different way? I ask this House to think about the duty to vote, not the right to vote. Let us recast it as a duty. We have an obligation under our law to be enrolled to vote. Paul Quinn says with this bill that prisoners should not be allowed to go on the roll, yet we require by law everyone else to be on the roll. So we would say to people who have committed an offence and who happen to be in jail during the period of time when there is an election that they cannot be on the electoral roll, and yet we require by law everyone else to be on the roll. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da654fb9debc4a75acc2aea096657bb6\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: The current law says that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214c95ee3857b4bd6bf1dc6a829e9db1e\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: The current law says that, because it was changed in 1993. The way the current law was changed was to ensure that there could be a distinction made between those who were convicted of more serious offences. The position was adopted of choosing the time frame of more than 3 years, which was a parliamentary term, and which actually solved the problem\u2014drawing those people into the group of people who lose the right to vote because they go overseas for more than 3 years and have not been back within that 3-year period. So, actually, the whole thing makes logical sense. The only way that Paul Quinn can argue what he is arguing is if he does not accept that there is somehow a moral duty to vote. I do not think any person should stand or sit in this Parliament who does not believe that it is a duty to vote as opposed to merely a right. I think a duty is far stronger than a right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe member Paul Quinn is saying that we should take prisoners off the electoral roll, which means that if they are in jail at the point that they are seeking to re-enrol, they will come off the electoral roll. I say that getting marginalised people in our society on to the electoral roll is one of the hardest things that we have to confront when we try to sign up people during the election campaign. Every member of this House will know how much resource we put into the Electoral Commission to make sure that people are on the roll in the lead-up to both the local-body elections, which take place this year, and the general election, which takes place next year. I think that people should think very carefully about what this bill really means. It is not about punishing people; it is actually about minimising the duty that goes with electing our members of Parliament and also electing our mayors, city councillors, community board members, and regional council\u2014if we still had one in Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI think that the fundamental issue is that the member Paul Quinn is using this as a dog whistle to those who want to see the Government as having a tough stance on our prison population, and who are saying let us get tough on prisoners. My view of that is that this idea is completely out of date and out of time, because it was considered in 1986 and it was implemented in an appropriate way by a National Government in 1993. The point I make is that the situation has become even stronger. The explanatory note with this bill says that the Royal Commission on the Electoral System failed to consider prior convictions before a custodial sentence was imposed. By the time one gets to a custodial sentence there are more serious offences that have been committed in the past. That was before the days of home detention, which in my view makes an even stronger case for the royal commission\u2019s position. This bill states that if an individual gets home detention they are allowed to vote, but if they are in prison they are not allowed to vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf63e37323f942d8bf807fa99f0b028a\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there\u2019s a less serious offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a9ddbfdbcab470382c9349eb1b01bb8\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, now the member has just given me the answer to that question! I tell that member that there were two young men convicted in Christchurch last year of exactly the same offence. One lived in Fendalton with a very supportive family. One lived in Aranui with a very unsupportive family. What happened? The one from Fendalton got home detention and the one from Aranui went to jail. So, why should one be taken off the electoral roll and told that he cannot be on the electoral roll when the other one from Fendalton is allowed to stay on the electoral roll? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI think that the Government has got this completely and utterly wrong. They need to work out that the underlying issue is much more important than this dog-whistle political bill. This bill will undermine what I believe every person in this country should accept: it is a duty to vote. It is not a right to vote; it is a duty to vote. It is a duty to be involved in our political system, whether it is local government or central government. All that this bill is doing is telling people who have been convicted for 3 years and who have to spend their time in jail, as opposed to home detention, that the Government wants to differentiate between those two. I say shame on the members opposite. It is an absolute shame that this bill is allowed to come before this House and bring this House into disrepute by not seeing this as the important issue that we are entitled to see it as. It is a duty to vote, and I believe that this bill undermines that very duty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff019ba75aa840399b0453ed2b752d9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff019ba75aa840399b0453ed2b752d9c\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I will start by talking just briefly about the previous speech by Lianne Dalziel. It was not bad really; I agree with some of it. But I take issue with her view on the duty to vote. We do not have a compulsion to vote here, unlike in Australia. We are obliged to be on the electoral roll\u2014we are duty-bound to do that\u2014but we are not obliged to vote. Voting is a major right. It is a right that people have fought and died for. I am unaware whether any suffragettes died in this country, but certainly they did in England, in the early part of last century, in order to obtain the right to vote. That right was considered to be so important that women were prepared to go on to racetracks and be trampled to death in order to get the right to vote. There can be no democracy without voting; one inevitably follows the other. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EI am afraid I disagree with Ms Dalziel\u2019s view regarding criminals in prison, but she has made a good point: there are disparities in treatment between those who are in prison and those who are on home detention. Perhaps that could be addressed at the select committee, because on the face of it, certainly, someone who receives a sentence of home detention\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208c68fce9a4c4f5dba5aa135b3416663\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: It is for a less serious offence, David.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c78468ae57eb4ae9bbc20844c2dc6db0\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, well, they can theoretically get home detention for a serious offence, so perhaps that disparity can be looked at. But by and large, contrary to what Ms Dalziel has said, people are in prison for very serious offending. They are deprived of their liberty, which is a right not much less important than the right to vote, perhaps. They are there for repeat violent offending, very serious violent offending, or for having stolen a lot of money. They have broken the social contract that we all make to abide by the laws that we make in this place. They are there for a reason. The question to be asked is simply why such people should be allowed to exercise a right that people have died for. That is not a melodramatic question; it is a very serious one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EAlthough this is a member\u2019s bill, in my view it is part of a sea change that this Government has embarked upon in the law and order field. Along with measures to combat drug abuse and the other drivers of crime, the National-ACT Government is making it very clear that prison ought to be a place that people do not want to return to. Although it is incorrect to say our prisons are five-star hotels\u2014I have visited seven or eight of them, and I know that is not the case\u2014neither are they hellholes or particularly unpleasant. That is changing. This Government, with the full support of the ACT Party, is introducing container cells. Now, the party opposite wails and moans about the inhumanity of that. If members had a bit of life experience, they would know that anyone who has worked in a mine in Australia or on an oil rig has lived in something very similar to what is proposed for Rimutaka Prison. Container prisons will not be like the so-called \u201CMilton Hilton\u201D, the centrally heated prison in the South Island. They will not be like the Ng\u0101wh\u0101 prison, which was opened under the previous Government. They will not have a large sculpture, at a cost of a couple of million dollars, to indicate the spirit returning to the sea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003ELast week I was speaking to a Rotary group in the North Island near Ng\u0101wh\u0101 about the \u201Cthree strikes\u201D bill, which is soon to pass in this House. After my speech, I took questions. One of the audience members was a doctor, and he asked me what I thought about prison conditions. I said pretty much what I have just said: prisons are not five-star hotels, but neither are they hellholes, and they should be places that people do not want to return to. Afterwards he came up to me and said that he treated all the prisoners from Ng\u0101wh\u0101 prison who had ear, nose, and throat problems. Purely from his own interest, he had asked them how they found conditions there, and what they thought about life there. He said that every single one of them said that they were very comfortable, thanks, the food was great, they were not required to work, and they were very happy. Either that man was lying\u2014and he did not seem like a liar to me\u2014or we have made our prisons too comfortable. That is changing, and I applaud that change, as does my party. This bill is symptomatic of that change and is part of it, and we are proud to support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab7a8f8a777e45769572bde1decd91b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab7a8f8a777e45769572bde1decd91b1\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Electoral (Disqualification of Convicted Prisoners) Amendment Bill is nothing more than the latest in a long line of dog-whistle attempts to make the Government, the National Party, and its ACT Party fellow traveller over there seem tough on crime. This House should be gravely concerned that some of its members can come in here and propose legislation for those reasons, without any regard for its practical implications. Those members would place political image above fairness, above the value our society places on the civic duty of voting, above the effectiveness of our electoral roll, and above prisoners\u2019 reintegration into society upon release, and in ways that would be impractical to implement for all the reasons that Lianne Dalziel set out in her very fine contribution to this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EAs well as this bill being completely impracticable, the Attorney-General has notified the House that the bill is unjustifiable because it is inconsistent with the electoral rights affirmed by section 12 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022566cc85a0bd5495abc4f7f5cf2281f36\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: This from the party that had Michael Cullen, who didn\u2019t even put one forward for the Electoral Finance Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5d990f4eabe4d7986a429bb2fd49292\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: Unlike some of the members opposite, who are interjecting, I think it should be a matter for serious concern when this House receives a report of inconsistency from the Attorney-General. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EClearly Mr Quinn does not know what the process is relating to these reports. I will explain what that process is. The Crown Law Office looks at the legislation. It looks at overseas cases and comparable provisions in international agreements and legislation to consider whether courts or international tribunals have considered whether similar provisions are consistent with fundamental rights and freedoms. Let us look at the advice this House has received on that point. As far as a blanket ban on prisoner voting is concerned, it breaches the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act because it is inconsistent with the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the High Court decision in Re Bennett, and decisions of the Supreme Court of Canada and the European Court of Human Rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe advice states that inconsistencies with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act can be justified where the provision serves an important and significant objective, and where there is a rational and proportionate connection between the provision and the said objective. The stated objective of this bill is to disenfranchise the most serious offenders. The Attorney-General does not express an opinion on whether that is an important and significant objective but, regardless, he concludes that the objective to disenfranchise the most serious offenders is \u201Cnot rationally linked to the blanket ban on prisoner voting\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThere are three reasons for that, which are worth having in the record of the House. First, not every person serving a sentence of imprisonment is necessarily a serious offender, and people who are not serious offenders will be disenfranchised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ed1d68dd30a4715802117809cc199f0\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: Wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e250bd43ec794ce7ab0940f2119b8e40\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Garrett knows better than the Attorney-General on this point, judging by his interjections! That is the advice on the record from the Attorney-General. The example given is a fines defaulter, who may be imprisoned, but who hardly qualifies as a serious offender. Secondly, an irrational inconsistency is created so that mentally impaired prisoners who are detained in a hospital or secure facility for less than 3 years could vote, while all prisoners serving sentences of less than 3 years in prisons could not vote. Currently both groups are treated the same. Nothing in this bill deals with that issue. Thirdly and finally, the advice states that the blanket ban on prisoner voting is both under and over-inclusive. It is under-inclusive in that a prisoner convicted of a serious violent offence who serves 2\u00BD years in prison between general elections can vote, and it is over-inclusive in that someone convicted and given a 1-week sentence coinciding with a general election would be prevented from voting. There is a complete inconsistency there, which a select committee would be simply unable to resolve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThis bill has no intention other than to make the Government look tough on crime. In doing so, it is proposing impractical changes. If the Government were really tough on crime, it would not be taking police cars off the street, decreasing firearms training for the police, and slashing $21 million of funding from the police. Most of all, it would not be coming to this House every day to implement the sort of outdated economic policies that create inequality and impoverish our communities in such a way that creates crime in the first place. This is a bad bill. It is window dressing and it is offensive. It will not work, and that is why Labour opposes it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u00225182e9796d62457dbc8b216be2e857fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225182e9796d62457dbc8b216be2e857fe\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215b4499047e24a3dbd371fec4014e47e\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: It will offend them. It will offend the communists, all right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9108a35355f4271a350c74b1ebdeea5\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Garrett. The Electoral (Disqualification of Convicted Prisoners) Amendment Bill has one single and very simple purpose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5e6c0ea37f944dfb71c9d66cdaea7c2\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. There are various Speakers\u2019 rulings about people moving to other seats to facilitate interjection. I know that in this House we have a fairly flexible regime in that regard, but we have seen several examples of it from Mr Garrett both in the previous speech and even before Mr Clendon was able to get a word out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022886a7c4db70d4016b6e0ea09c3a82e9d\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232f67d4567004198a4bf69a35c1a0f03\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I do not need any assistance, thank you. I have cautioned members. This is a members\u2019 day and one would hope we have a slightly better standard of debate in that regard than a partisan-party operation. Mr Quinn has a right of reply; he might like to contain his interjections. Interjections are part of this House if they are rare and reasonable, and we have gone beyond rare and reasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278c63938789340939e94922b0d0264d9\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying, this bill has a single and quite simple purpose, which is to deny the vote to anyone who is currently serving a prison sentence. That is quite a significant shift to the current arrangements, yet there is very little in this bill in the way of argument or justification for that proposed change. It leaves us to speculate on the underlying purpose. I must agree with some of the speakers who have already noted that it seems to be a response to the very simplistic, populist call for longer sentences and tougher punishment for criminals. Allegedly, that will solve our problems but, of course, we know they will not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EPutting people in jail is punishment for a crime. There is nothing to be gained from punishing them further by stopping them from voting. Further marginalising prisoners from our society\u2014and denying people the vote will contribute to that extra marginalisation\u2014will contribute to the growing underclass that this Government pretends it is concerned about. Very well-founded and credible research from the US shows that depriving prisoners of the vote is not good for their rehabilitation and reintegration into society. It further alienates people from the norms of mainstream society. How far does this Government plan to go? We hope we do not get to a situation similar to that in the United States, where ex-prisoners are denied the right to vote. Currently some 5 million Americans\u2014something like 14 percent of, or one in seven, African-American males\u2014are disenfranchised. Let us hope this Government\u2019s somewhat irrational approach to justice issues does not take us too far down that road. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe bill\u2019s explanatory note acknowledges that it ignores the advice of the 1986 Royal Commission on the Electoral System, which was supported by advice from the Solicitor-General in 1992. However, it does not provide an argument for what this bill will achieve. The 1986 commission noted that the disqualification of prisoners was not uncommon internationally and that \u201CIts origins lie in the view that voting is a privilege rather than a right, to be extended only to people of substance and standing on the community.\u201D The Greens reject absolutely the notion of voting as a privilege to be doled out by who knows who. We see voting as an absolute right in regards to the franchise. It is a right of every citizen, with a very few exceptions, to vote. The State\u2019s right to coerce citizens\u2014and imprisoning citizens is perhaps the most obvious and extreme example of that coercion\u2014depends on its legitimacy as an elected body with power and authority supported by an electoral mandate. The right to vote ought only to be withdrawn in the most exceptional circumstances, and a prison sentence of less than 3 years falls far short of any reasonable test. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe Attorney-General\u2019s assessment, tabled in the House on 17 March, concluded that \u201Cthe blanket disenfranchisement of prisoners appears to be inconsistent with s 12 of the Bill of Rights Act and that it cannot be justified under s 5 of that Act.\u201D It is true that the first draft of any bill can contain an error, a drafting error, or some reason why the Attorney-General might pick up a provision in breach of that Act. The core purpose\u2014the core principle\u2014of this bill is clearly in breach of the Bill of Rights. That in itself should be sufficient to stop the bill in its tracks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EDeterrence is often rolled out as a rationale for populist and ineffective punitive measures. This, indeed, is intended as a justification. Very few people think rationally before committing a crime. Very few people will stop at the point where they are about to commit a crime for fear they will lose their right to vote. It is simply not a reasonable expectation. The prison system is imperfect and not always just. We know that people are incarcerated while others committing similar crimes are allowed to serve a sentence in some other way, or escape conviction all together. That point has been made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIn summary, it is our belief that the proposal in this bill is not helpful. It will take us nowhere in terms of reducing offending or, indeed, recidivism in this country. It will not reduce our prison population. It will not make us a more peaceful, secure, or cohesive society. For those reasons, the Greens will continue to oppose the passage of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022 data-id=\u002205f1fdcd190a43379195a897bd59f7da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205f1fdcd190a43379195a897bd59f7da\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E I speak to the Electoral (Disqualification of Convicted Prisoners) Amendment Bill. If the bill is enacted, the law would revert to what it was prior to the implementation of the current Electoral Act 1993. All this bill does is remove the right of a person to register as an elector if he or she is serving a sentence of imprisonment for a term of less than 3 years. The bill is very simple law. It says that if people do a crime, they do the time and give up the electoral right that normal citizens have. The legislation gives supremacy to a person\u2019s moral obligation not to commit a crime, rather than to the moral obligation of that person to vote. The Labour Opposition is saying that it is a moral obligation to allow these people to vote. But do these people not also have a moral obligation not to commit crime? If they want to commit a crime, they have to do the time, and they have to give up all the rights and privileges that law-abiding citizens have. If they want to do the crime, they give up those rights and privileges. Their moral obligation is not to commit crime; they have to have that responsibility in the first instance. If they want to continue to vote, then they will not commit crime. If they want to give up their rights and privileges, then so be it\u2014they give up the right to vote. I would rather that the moral obligation not to commit crime had supremacy over the moral obligation to allow those people to vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EMembers should look at all of the thousands of New Zealanders who went to war, as David Garrett quite rightly pointed out, to protect our democracy. The biggest part of that democracy is the right to vote. Well, if people are going to commit crime, which they have a moral obligation not to do, then they can give up the rights and privileges that they can expect as New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EWhat do the Greens say? They say that that is an irrational approach\u2014to expect New Zealanders to have a moral obligation not to commit a crime is an irrational approach! That is being just totally soft on crime. What is the Greens\u2019 other interpretation? The Greens\u2019 other interpretation is to call the law of locking up criminals extreme coercion. I mean, you know, duh! This is about keeping New Zealanders safe, yet the Greens call the law of locking up New Zealanders extreme coercion. I guess if this were a communist country those members would be in the top seats, but it is not a communist country; it is a democracy. We expect a moral obligation of New Zealanders not to commit a crime, and if they commit a crime then we expect that the laws will deal to them in the appropriate way; this is just another way in which we can curb their rights and obligations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EWe need to send a very, very strong message to people who might think about committing a crime. We need to make them think about all the rights and privileges that they would lose, and we need to make sure that they do not enjoy their time in incarceration or in fulfilling their sentences. Of course, we hear all about the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, and those people\u2019s rights. Well, in my view, the moment they commit a crime they abdicate their rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EWhat about the rights of the citizens of New Zealand not to have crime perpetrated against them? We are not going to be like the Labour members. They said they are not going to not condone the actions of criminals, so by definition that means they condone the actions of criminals. Labour members are clearly soft on crime, but National members are sending a very strong message that we are not soft on crime. We want to make sure that every single criminal understands that they will get dealt to. If they want to break the law, they will get dealt to. We have made very sure of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EWe have totally supported the police with the changes that we have made under the excellent leadership of Minister Judith Collins, who is Minister of Police and Minister of Corrections. We have given the police Tasers, we have given them more police on the front line, and we have given them more powers to deal with crime and methamphetamine. We have enabled them to act to recover the proceeds of crime; we have taken $7.2 million from that. Bring it on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u00229c248c3dca5b4b908690945224408664\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c248c3dca5b4b908690945224408664\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker Roy. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f630bfa08e0438ea72d62a64d4a81a3\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Hey, brother.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af0898e133b1415494b81886772a2ea1\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, parata. If an election were held today, some 3,200 sentenced prisoners\u2014those with a release date between now and 5 March 2011\u2014would be able to take up their democratic right to vote. Another 1,800 prisoners on remand would also be eligible. That makes up about 5,000 people in prison who can legally vote at a general election. Under the terms of the Electoral Act 1993, because they are serving a sentence of less than 3 years they are eligible to vote. But today we have the Electoral (Disqualification of Convicted Prisoners) Amendment Bill, which seeks to deprive those 5,000 people of their legal right, and to punish them again for the crime for which they have already been prosecuted, sentenced, and incarcerated. I have to wonder about the motivation of targeting people who are already isolated from our society, who are already alienated from everyday life, and who are already serving the time to pay for their crime. I ask what on earth could be the motivation to deny them even more of their rights, except to punish them, to prove how nasty and vicious society can be, to show that we do not care about those who have fallen by the wayside, and to show what a callous and depraved society we really are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThis bill is a backward step. It takes us back to the time before 1993 when, based on a recommendation of the 1986 Royal Commission on the Electoral System, the Solicitor-General agreed to the 3-year rule. This bill will take us back to the days when, on conviction, anyone in prison was disqualified from voting. This bill will take us back to the days of prejudice and ignorance, and of a society ruled by fear rather than freedom. Kim Workman, director of Rethinking Crime and Punishment, said the provisions of the bill would affect the 90 percent of prisoners who would be out of jail in 2 years, and it would also actively disenfranchise the families and the communities that those inmates come from. Communities like \u014Ctara, Flaxmere, and Cannons Creek would stand to lose a significant number of their voters. It does not take very much consideration to realise that with M\u0101ori and Pasifika constituting the great majority of prison inmates, the Polynesian voice would be the voice that was silenced by this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe history of the right to vote in this country is one of confronting prejudice and challenging exclusion. Our history has been one of opening up the right to vote to women, to M\u0101ori, to people who were not British subjects, such as the Chinese, to people living on the Chatham Islands, to 20-year-olds, and ultimately to 18-year-olds, as well. This bill, along with a range of bills of a similar nature, aims to take us back to a time when exclusion defined us as a society, and to reset us on the track of slowly but surely rebuilding the walls of denial and racism. That would see this country plunge into levels of hatred and violence that would make today\u2019s problems look like they were a bun fight. We shudder at the thought of what might come next, and we signal quite clearly that we will most certainly not be supporting this bill. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00220bb50e9675f946c4a73409dccd77eb1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220bb50e9675f946c4a73409dccd77eb1d\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Every so often Parliament gets to debate questions of pure principle. The issue here is whether serving prisoners should have the right to vote. My answer, at a principled level, is absolutely not. Some would say that voting is not a right, it is a privilege. I disagree. It is a right; it is a fundamental right, but it is not an absolute right. In fact, if we consider all the rights we like to think of, they never are absolute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EBut with all rights, even with fundamental ones, go responsibilities. If we like, we can put it this way: there is a social contract between individuals and the State. The State makes the rules. It compulsorily takes taxes and does all manner of things. In return, we receive all sorts of things: warm shelter sometimes, hospitals, schools, and of course the power of the ballot to elect or \u201Cunelect\u201D, and, in our privileged case in this House, to be elected. Prisoners, however, have opted out of that social contract. They have not gone just against the State\u2019s and society\u2019s basic rules, they have gone against the big ones, which means that incarceration has resulted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EA central debate here concerns the matter of how easily imprisonment is imposed. I say to members from experience that it is not imposed easily, at all. In this country we do not take away someone\u2019s right to liberty and imprison them at all lightly. Indeed, the previous Labour Government increased the many sentence options that judges now have, and that they must consider, before a person is incarcerated. There is a spectrum, and a wide one at that, of offences before we get to the most serious penalties in our system of imprisonment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EMoreover, the right to vote is not just a fundamental one; it is a precious one. Millions of men and women have shed blood and lost their lives for the right to vote. I simplify to some extent, but I say that arguably any war we like to think of that New Zealand has been involved in has been fought in the name of, among other things, democracy. I am certainly not saying to this House that all wars are right. Indeed, often they are fundamentally misguided. Nevertheless, as I say, to some extent they are in the name of democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EMy grandfather fought in a world war, but did he do that so that serving prisoners could vote? Voting is a fundamental right, but it is also a precious one. By committing serious crime, prisoners opt out of the social contract between citizens and the State, and they lose the right to vote. When they have served their time and they are out, they can re-enter society. They can regain their precious right, that hard-earned, with blood shed, right to vote. That is how it should be. This bill, in principle, is the right thing to do. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00228fc15792960e47209d3279fa54df0cd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fc15792960e47209d3279fa54df0cd2\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I will begin by, for the first time\u2014and possibly for the only time\u2014endorsing 100 percent the comments made by Hone Harawira in the speech that he just made on the Electoral (Disqualification of Convicted Prisoners) Amendment Bill. There was nothing in the speech he made that I disagreed with; there was much in the speech he made that I strongly endorse and think members on all sides of the House would be well advised to listen to. I think we should take on board much of what he has to say, not just in this debate but in many other debates, when it comes to law and order and the incarceration of prisoners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWith the possible exception of the last contribution, from Simon Bridges, the common feature and common characteristic of all of the other contributions from the other side of the House is that the speeches have been filled with anger and hatred. I can understand that, to some extent, when it comes to debates about law and order. I can understand it when it comes particularly to serious criminals and their serving of time in prison. But the problem is that when it comes to debates about law and order, anger and hatred seldom advance matters very far, at all. In fact, the point that Hone Harawira made, which I totally endorse, is that so many of the people in our prisons feel nothing but anger and hatred from the society around them, and often know no different from that. Often they have never felt anything other than anger and hatred from the society around them; they have become so disenfranchised. That is a contributing factor to their offending. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis bill will disenfranchise them from society even further. Voting is a duty that all citizens should have, with the exception\u2014and I accept this exception\u2014of the most serious criminal offenders, who are already prevented under the law from voting. There have been many reviews of this law, including a royal commission, a review by the Solicitor-General, and comments recently on this bill by the Attorney-General\u2014the National Government\u2019s own Attorney-General\u2014all of which have said that it is not justified to remove the ability to vote from somebody who is sentenced to imprisonment for a term of less than 3 years. I totally agree with that. We cannot treat people differently depending on when they are sentenced and when they serve their sentences. People who would never have the opportunity to vote anyway, because there may not be an election during the time they are in prison, could be removed from the electoral roll. Somebody may be in prison for 6 months between elections, and they would never have the opportunity to vote even if they were out in public. Yet they would be removed from the electoral roll. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWe spend so much time getting people on to the electoral roll in the first place, and some of the people who are the most difficult to get on to the roll in the first place are the people who are disenfranchised from our community. We struggle to get the people who are more likely to go to prison on to the electoral roll in the first place, yet this bill removes them from the electoral roll. It is not justified. It will further marginalise them from our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ETough on crime rhetoric is the easy part. Dealing with the underlying social causes of criminal offending, the disenfranchisement from society, and the total feeling of anger that exists within many of the people in our prisons is something we have to think long and hard about. We do not do a good job of this, because the political rhetoric is too hard on any side of this political debate. It is very difficult to deal with this issue in a way that will look good on the news and will make people likely to vote for us. Yes, there are votes in being seen to be hard on criminals. There are very few votes, unfortunately, in dealing with the root causes of crime and criminal offending, because they are not easy and they do not fit on a bumper sticker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWe have to get past that, because New Zealand already has one of the highest incarceration rates in the developed world. We have nearly twice as many people per capita in prison as Australia does. The gene pool of its population was hand-picked by the best magistrates in the United Kingdom, yet Australia apparently has a lower level of criminal offending than New Zealand. I simply do not accept that. I believe and accept that the political rhetoric in New Zealand has gotten to the point where we can no longer have a rational debate about this issue. We have to step back from that rhetoric. The tough on crime rhetoric has to stop. We have to take this matter much more seriously, and this bill is not the way to advance these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022e83d43234d4641239b6991ae08a1a011\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e83d43234d4641239b6991ae08a1a011\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me pleasure to rise and speak on the Electoral (Disqualification of Convicted Prisoners) Amendment Bill, presented to the House by Paul Quinn. I will read the middle part of the title again\u2014\u201Cdisqualification of convicted prisoners\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI congratulate Paul Quinn on having a little bit of the Green Party\u2019s luck. I heard a member of the Green Party suggest one day that a bit of karma is involved when it comes to having a member\u2019s bill drawn out of the ballot, and we recognise that over the last year the Green Party has had many bills drawn. Well, if anybody deserves karma in this area it is Paul Quinn, and I want to recognise that fact right here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI support this bill very strongly for a number of reasons. The right to vote is an important right. It is a right that is exercised and enjoyed by all law-abiding citizens throughout this country, and it is considered by law-abiding citizens to be a very important right. When people break the law in this country\u2014and in many others\u2014there are consequences. People who break the law lose a number of the rights that law-abiding people in New Zealand enjoy. The right to freedom is lost. I think everybody in this House would agree that people who commit crimes should lose their freedom. The right to association is also lost because of incarceration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESomeone mentioned earlier that the right to stand for election to Parliament is lost. I believe that it is only proper that people lose their right to exercise their voice in society through their vote when they have been sentenced to a period of time in prison. I say to all those who hold their right to vote as precious to them that there is a simple way to retain that right, and that is to not break the law. If they do break the law, if they do commit a crime, then I hold the right of a law-abiding person to vote to be more important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI have listened closely to the debate, and I have enjoyed some very good interventions. I note that Hone Harawira spoke with some wisdom in some of these areas, and I look forward to this bill going to a select committee, if today\u2019s vote allows, so that we can hear more from others and from members of the public about their thoughts on the matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EAfter listening to the rhetoric from Labour members, I say that Labour has shown again that it is soft on crime. Those members opposite are more concerned about the rights of the criminal than they are about the rights of the victim. If there was a way to give the criminals\u2019 votes to their victims, then I would very seriously consider supporting it. I say to members opposite that if Labour members were an effective Opposition, in touch with the concerns of law-abiding citizens who hold the right to vote as being very important, then they would be supporting this bill. But we have heard today, of course, that they are not an effective Opposition, and they will not be supporting the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI believe that the majority of people in this House are committed to tackling crime and making our communities safer for Kiwi families. I believe that the majority of people in this House believe that the rights of law-abiding citizens should come before the rights of criminals. This bill makes it clear that our democratic rights as citizens include obligations to obey the law. When people break the law and are sentenced to prison, they have not met their obligations to society and they therefore should lose the right to vote while they are in prison. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI reiterate for the benefit of anybody who was not listening earlier that I support this bill very strongly. We have heard from others about a royal commission report some years ago, and there are always different interpretations of it, but, very clearly, the commission\u2019s analysis is notable for its omission of any consideration as to the level of serious offending most prisoners have been convicted of prior to their eventually receiving a custodial sentence. The select committee will have an opportunity, should this bill move beyond its first reading, to look at that. It will have an opportunity to decide and to converse with New Zealanders about what they think is an appropriate level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI have read the bill and looked at it closely, and I congratulate Paul Quinn. I think he has the level right. If people want to keep their right to vote, if voting is an important right to them, they should think about victims and not go out and commit crimes. I say to Paul that he will have my vote on this issue. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5b0fd730d3747eea4bf54d54f009166\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5b0fd730d3747eea4bf54d54f009166\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN (National):\u003C/span\u003E The Electoral (Disqualification of Convicted Prisoners) Amendment Bill is quite a simple bill. All it sets out to do is to remove the vote from anyone who is imprisoned on the day of an election. I am quite happy for the bill to go through the select committee process to work out any procedural issues. If the Opposition is hung up on the fact that it removes people from the electoral roll, then let us just leave them on the roll and say that if they are in prison, they do not get on a bus to go and vote. [Interruption] I know that the bill does not say that, but that is what the current Act says. All I have done is extend that provision. The simple fact is that the select committee is charged with finding the most appropriate mechanism to achieve the aims of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003ELabour has accused members on this side of the House of practising dog-whistle politics. Talk about rhetoric! Those members have talked about anger. Most of the anger and most of the rhetoric has come from them. In fact, probably the best contribution to this debate, the most civilised and the most thoughtful, I thought, was an outstanding contribution from my colleague Simon Bridges. There is a man who has been at the coalface of crime. I think that his contribution to this debate was very worthwhile of being listened to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003EIt was suggested by Lianne Dalziel, and again by David Clendon, in the contribution from the Green Party, that this was against the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. The fact of the matter is that section 5 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act allows, in exceptional circumstances, section 12 of that Act to be overridden. This debate is all about whether there are exceptional circumstances, and, if so, what they are. Already both the royal commission and the Solicitor-General, in his opinion of 4 or 5 years ago, confirm that at some point in time there is an exceptional circumstance. What this debate is about is where the line in the sand is around exceptional circumstances. That is all the debate is. I suggest that if Lianne Dalziel had read the royal commission report more fully, she would know that the only reason the provision for 3 years is there is that the commission thought there should be some exceptional circumstances. We have said that people who go overseas for more than 3 years lose their right to vote. The commission thought that sounded OK, so it applied the same ruling to prisoners. If she had read the report she would understand that that was the basis for the provision of 3 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003ENo other reason was given in the royal commission\u2019s report. Someone who makes the choice\u2014his or her own choice\u2014to go overseas for 3 years or more loses the right to vote, and therefore prisoners should be treated on that same basis. Yet we are talking about people who have transgressed against society. They have abused the rights that the community values and that the people who fought in the wars commemorated by the memorials in this Chamber fought to defend. But, no, Opposition members want to stand aside and not have that conversation. Well, I say that it is an appropriate time for this conversation to occur, because we are faced with, and challenged by, the fact that the community can go only so far in being able to defend people\u2019s rights. I believe that the community has the right to decide when it will no longer provide the protection that it offers when it protects people\u2019s right to vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003EThat is what this conversation is about. I hope that this bill is referred to a select committee so that we can have an informed debate, rather than the rhetoric and anger that came from the Opposition. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022232e177da2684144a4e6ad58ebb7292f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Electoral (Disqualification of Convicted Prisoners) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 59\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000436\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 64, Noes 58.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000437\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Law and Order Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222e224eb9a3ad45788cc0aa11a3a8a52a\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations (Workers\u2019 Secret Ballot for Strikes) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002204e6ddc79df84d59a723538eeae90593\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa6afab1097b4b4c898826c3097e4e57\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa6afab1097b4b4c898826c3097e4e57\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Employment Relations (Workers\u2019 Secret Ballot for Strikes) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the Employment Relations (Workers\u2019 Secret Ballot for Strikes) Amendment Bill be referred to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. First of all, I thank my National Party colleagues for allowing me to put this bill in the ballot and for then supporting me\u2014hopefully\u2014when the time comes to refer it to the select committee. The bill\u2019s title is the Employment Relations (Workers\u2019 Secret Ballot for Strikes) Amendment Bill. In a nutshell, it amends the Employment Relations Act 2000, to require unions to hold a secret ballot vote of their members to approve a strike before undertaking any strike action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EMy key message to the House is that National has always believed that employment law should treat all parties fairly, with the focus on protecting employees and employers. National has been committed for a long time to creating a positive work environment, and I think that this bill supports that priority. I will not take up too much of the House\u2019s time, but I will say in an overview that our nation is at a crossroads and that we need to get this nation back on a footing where we are concentrating on productivity. I think that the raft of measures that National has seen in, in the 18 to 20 months that it has been on the Treasury benches, has done that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThis bill requires unions to hold a secret ballot for their members when voting on strike action. Strikes can be incredibly stressful for both sides, both financially and mentally. One of the reasons why I suggested this bill to my colleagues was that one such person felt that he was under pressure when it came time to decide whether he would be part of the withdrawal of labour at his workplace. Not all workers will be in the same personal circumstances, so it is fair that any decision they make is free from judgment by anyone else. This bill will provide a protection mechanism for workers who may feel intimidated through the voting process. People must feel at ease with the process, whether it is about choosing to withdraw their labour or choosing their representatives every 3 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1d200cf0a024955a290f19ea641d5f8\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Did New Zealand First have a ballot when they walked out of the National Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1e8545fcd744ac3ab96347a87393a33\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: That member was about 7 when that happened. This bill will ensure that a secret ballot before strikes is a legal requirement for all unions. It is nothing new. Actually, all that this bill does is to codify and standardise what is already occurring within some of the major unions of this country. I want to make it quite clear that this is not about a fight between right and left, or a fight between National and Labour; it is not even a fight between employers and employees. This is not an attack on unions. Rather, it enhances the processes that many unions already have in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c43bb67527824a3aa72bf7de611fc9e9\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: What about employers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cbe23871eb645debdd99710d1ae035b\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: We will get to that; we will get to the little squeak from the Opposition members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI had a meeting today with Peter Conway from the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions, and it is very clear and apparent that the Council of Trade Unions does not have any problem with this bill. But it is also very clear and apparent to me that it wants to couch some issues in the select committee process, and I cannot wait for the council to come along\u2014and for anyone else to come along\u2014to make a submission on this bill. I think that the wars we used to fight have been won and lost. I will not say who won or who lost, but let us just say that those wars have been fought; those wars have been won, and those wars have been lost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf2fc78c1f7d4ec1bf1e2d698e333742\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s nothing wrong with a bit of history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b83e91241aa42e9b7c8fddd7ee81297\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely; it makes us better people if we understand that history. It makes us better people if we know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd1b4a6757114da59467c3701ae272a1\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It would make your colleagues very well informed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eba8faf97495444096c8ae5b0f539d2b\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. Again, you see, this is not about right and left; this is not about National and Labour. This is about protecting a person\u2019s right to make a decision without fear or favour. Protecting a person\u2019s right to make a decision without feeling that he or she is under the cosh, so to speak\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278c87663e33644f3b3d5cbe77ff40b54\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: The cosh or the bottle?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c0827f1108442899df24ec85eff5e7c\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: The bottle, as well. We have all done things in our pasts that we rather regret; I ask Trevor Mallard whether that is not so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb67c07d32fc4c379c721550009648eb\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I have never bottled anyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248069af53e2449efab875ba16e73946b\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: No, some people never regret what they have done. They continue to make the same mistakes as they have in the past. But that is different, and not what we are here for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EWe are here to protect a person\u2019s right to withdraw their labour in a way whereby they are fully informed and not under any threat, either physical or mental. So I have set out today, and in my talks with various people, to make sure that the bill is non-controversial. It is all about transparency; it is all about democracy. It is all about the rights of the individual person who is being asked to withdraw his or her labour. In fact, that is the only real tool that workers have in their kitbags, so to speak, to further their interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EAs I said, I will not speak for very much longer, other than to say that I received a very, very nice letter concerning legal advice in respect of the consistency of my bill with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990. I am glad to inform the House that there are no issues with my bill going forward. It certainly does not contravene, I believe, any of the rights in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990. I leave the House to consider and make up its mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00226d0e47665791410baca26e1c6c17e965\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d0e47665791410baca26e1c6c17e965\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I will state right at the beginning that Labour will be supporting the Employment Relations (Workers\u2019 Secret Ballot for Strikes) Amendment Bill to go to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. It is a pity that the member in whose name this bill is had not consulted his nephew, the list member for the Hutt Valley, in order to make sure that the bill was similarly consistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. Maybe his nephew could give him some lessons in that area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EIt is an unusual position for Mr Henare and me, but there was almost nothing in his speech that I could disagree with. He summarised the situation pretty well. His bill will do effectively nothing. He is enshrining in legislation what is already codified in the vast majority of union rules. Again, I will do something unusual and take the language of Ruth Richardson to ask \u201CWhat is the mischief in that?\u201D. There is no problem in sending the bill to a select committee. I have a question in terms of whether Parliament would be better dealing with some other issues. I think there are some bigger issues in industrial relations and other areas, but this is an issue that would be good to get to a select committee. I think that as far as the member goes, there will be a degree of unanimity. I hope there will be a degree of unanimity in the House about the legislation, because all it is doing is reflecting the practice of modern unionism, something that has changed a bit in the time since the member and I were more actively involved in the union movement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThere is an area in the bill, though, that Labour will look to amend, or to see whether the bill is a vehicle for amendment\u2014that is, a reflection or mirror image for employers, an area to make sure there are proper processes for employers before they lock out workers. I think there is a lot of unevenness in the employment relationship legislation at the moment. Generally in our industrial relations law we have rules that apply to employers as well as to employees. What the proper approach for employers should be, I am not entirely sure, but I think certainly for companies it will be appropriate for at least the board of directors to make a decision before workers are locked out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276234b3d6ec84aef942dd20eef004062\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: What about the Business Roundtable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8833c56f0be4171865f8b97c2e616ee\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it might be good for the Business Roundtable to take a secret ballot on some of its own policies. It is interesting, as one goes around the Business Roundtable, to see how different the individual members\u2019 positions are from the positions that have been put forward by Mr Kerr. But, as I say, that area is something that we will be happy to look at. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI say to the member that over a number of years there have been some real changes in practice from the time when we were both actively involved in the union movement. In that time there were probably a significant number of unions that did not have secret ballots, and people had different methods of enforcement\u2014both employers and employees. They had different methods of dispute resolution over that time; I ask Mr Henare whether that is so. I think it is fair to say that people had different attitudes to transparency at that time, because when there were incidents within the union movement those incidents tended to be covered up, and some of the people who behaved badly, as Mr Henare did, tended to be protected. I do not know whether it was because of the union brotherhood that they were protected, or whether there was a special deal even in those days, under the United Nations or some other arrangements, which meant that Mr Henare had protection rather than prosecution in the way that everyone else would have had, if they had behaved in the way that he did as he exited the union movement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMr Henare knows exactly what the story is; he introduced the importance of transparency in union matters here. I am sure that over the next period of time we will enjoy him telling us the story of the way that he exited the union movement. I tell members that it was not a matter of ballot fixing. He did not get caught for his ballot fixing, although I think the union might have had a trouble or two in that area at one stage or another around the time that he was an official. But that was not the reason that he decided to resign from the union movement; it was something that was much more serious than that. I look forward to transparency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EAs I said at the beginning, we are supportive of the bill. It will have almost no effect in its current form. It might be a bit of a waste of time. It is likely to get widespread support, but we hope to improve it so that it will be fair and will mirror the processes available to employers before they use their power to lock workers out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00222ebc5a70a8f146068bc1a5b2ba08e812\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ebc5a70a8f146068bc1a5b2ba08e812\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E It is gives me great pleasure to support my very good colleague Tau Henare. He was once a union organiser and he has a particular interest in workers\u2019 rights. For many years he has been advocate for those who need assistance. The Employment Relations (Workers\u2019 Secret Ballot for Strikes) Amendment Bill is part of his delivering legislation to the House for the people of New Zealand. This member\u2019s bill will assist workers and given them the democratic rights that he knows they deserve. As a result of his very good experience in that field, we see this solid legislation coming through from a good member of the House who has an impeccable record and a future in this institution. He is also a good member of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. If the bill gets through its first reading, it will go to that great committee and we will endeavour to look at all options, including those put forward by Labour, to see what can be done to make this legislation the best it can possibly be in the circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EBasically, the bill gives fairness and equity to people in a ballot situation so they can have secrecy in making their decisions without feeling pressured in any way. That is crucial in a vital decision such as whether to undertake a strike action because not only is it possible that one might get some kind of pressure from colleagues, but also there is the potential pressure from those outside of the group who would be looking at the strike. It is important to have that secrecy so people can make a fair and independent decision because making the call to go on strike is a big decision. It can affect the livelihoods of many families, and many businesses can suffer dramatically from strike action. It is not an easy decision in any circumstance. If we can make that decision as fair and as equitable as possible at the time, then I think that is in the best interests for everyone. It is important to make the proper decision, one that is reflective of the circumstances, not one that has been pressured on to people for any other ulterior motive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI congratulate my colleague Tau Henare on bringing this legislation before the House. It is something that the select committee will take a great deal of interest in, and we will work tirelessly to make sure we have the best legislation coming forward to the House for future readings. It is in the best interests of New Zealand workers, our business community, and our industrial relations to pass this bill. I commend it to the House, and I wish my colleague all the best as we progress it through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba5b77620da74f7aad988421d854dac5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba5b77620da74f7aad988421d854dac5\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E During my euphoria I forgot to mention which select committee I was going to send the Employment Relations (Workers\u2019 Secret Ballot for Strikes) Amendment Bill to. I seek leave to move\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222df4f960fc84442086bf45ca484c95d5\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for this purpose. Is there any objection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8854bfd23c04b59b55a372d10e0aa96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8854bfd23c04b59b55a372d10e0aa96\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I think what the member is trying to do\u2014and I will be helpful\u2014is to seek leave to indicate which committee he will move the bill to at the appropriate time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4cec41410a6466b895b77657f7ef819\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4cec41410a6466b895b77657f7ef819\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I intend at the appropriate time to move that this bill be referred to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022a07d1ec2aa3f4f2da6c7b53fdbaeec54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a07d1ec2aa3f4f2da6c7b53fdbaeec54\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for what the House is about to agree to to be incorporated in the first reading speech of the Hon Tau Henare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229afc3b4789f648e1ae191feeb0f4ea8e\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u00223165f7419f4c4f6eacd34d59c929451c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223165f7419f4c4f6eacd34d59c929451c\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I think it is very interesting that we are debating the Employment Relations (Workers\u2019 Secret Ballot for Strikes) Amendment Bill on a day when it has been announced that work stoppages are at their highest level in 5 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ffef3d37d5d491ea7ec62d2a125bde9\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228539bfaaae6d490195f2d415402db93a\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh! So the National Government, the friend to business, is presiding over the highest rate of industrial action that we have seen in 5 years. It is no wonder the member Tau Henare is keen to have the passage of his bill. But it is very good to see that that member and the National Government have finally come out to support workers\u2019 right to strike\u2014because I have not been sure of that, particularly since the 1990s when that right was so curtailed\u2014even though the timing of the bill is a little bit unfortunate. We are pleased to have a piece of industrial relations legislation that is not viciously attacking workers\u2019 rights, because everything else we have seen from this Government does\u2014for example, the 90-day fire-at-will bill, the Holidays Act review, and the pitiful minimum wage increases. They have all been about pandering to business and sacrificing the rights of Kiwi workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAlthough we are supporting this bill, we have to question whether there are not more pressing issues to consider. There is no demand or need that I am aware of for this legislation. Tau Henare said in the paper that the idea came from his time as a union organiser in the 1980s. I mean, things have changed quite a lot since then. Poor old clerical workers! What did they do to deserve that member as an experienced union organiser? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022316b67d809434c86956581e993804c00\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I will have you know that we were a great team.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263c03b93eb1c4f56b44686177b1d60e3\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. I have to tell that member of the National Government that there are not legions of union officials going around the country pushing reluctant workers into strike action. As a union leader over many years, I never had one complaint from one member about that. The member said he had one person come to him, so it seems like a pretty small and minor issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299b855f5d37c479f9a3c2052c6668363\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Could\u2019ve been one of the other National members\u2019 bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dd80e5bda9f456282ab0edca5b4f5e6\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it could have been, too; that is right. I think, also, that in a modern union movement, workers make many decisions as union members, not just about whether they will strike or take industrial action but about whom they will elect as their workplace leaders. They also decide on collective agreements, which is usually the most important thing; the thing they are most interested in is what their pay rise will be. They vote on union rules. There are things such as union rules that are covered by the Employment Relations Act, and unions are required to have those rules. And they vote on the democratic governance structures. Workers are not stupid. They cannot be pushed into doing things they do not want to do. Anyone who thinks so should just catch up, because it is so different from what it was in the 1980s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ac1e6c1ee7144d8b96009d6f653a98b\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Tell that to the Service and Food Workers Union themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8d64b234c8d4596805e02d9907023cc\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: I have, and those workers are right behind me. If Mr Henare goes to talk to them, they will tell him that, and particularly the cleaners in this workplace whom that member has never supported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI will raise some issues, though, because there are many issues in this bill, and I think, perhaps, that the member has not thought them through. Apart from the fact that the bill does not do anything, there are some issues, like the lack of balance that my colleagues have referred to. Why is there a duty on workers to have secret ballots for strikes but not one on employers, including a secret ballot of shareholders? When employers lock out workers it is vicious; lockouts are shocking and they take away the economic livelihood of workers. They have had absolutely enough. There are a whole lot of questions about this. As I said, I do not think that the member has thought through how this will work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EHow will the secret ballot be conducted? Will it require a new army of labour inspectors to supervise these ballots? How will the Government pay for this out of its ever-decreasing public service funds? What will be the rules around the conducting of a ballot? How will the votes be counted? Will there be restrictions on the questions that can be asked? How will we make sure that employers do not interfere in the ballot? How will we stop that happening? What will happen if an employer says the workers cannot get together to have a secret ballot? What if they cannot meet? Will they be forced to use their paid stopwork meetings? Most important, what will happen to workers in health and safety situations? They currently have the right to go on strike if they are facing a hazard, and can walk off the job. Will they have to stop and say \u201COh well, we\u2019ll just take a secret ballot, and we won\u2019t worry about the hazard.\u201D? There are many questions that I look forward to addressing in the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u00220a5ef1a596b24ce691887674f1fcfa90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a5ef1a596b24ce691887674f1fcfa90\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party will be supporting the Employment Relations (Workers\u2019 Secret Ballot for Strikes) Amendment Bill to go to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. But whether we support it beyond that will depend on whether it is proved in the select committee that there is a real need for such a bill, and a way to handle some of the downsides of the bill that have already been explained by speakers, including the previous speaker, Darien Fenton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe bill seeks to codify practices that already exist in unions to conduct secret ballots before engaging in industrial actions. In order to promote a legislative framework for that and, as Darien Fenton said, an army of bureaucrats becoming involved in the work of a voluntary organisation\u2014and unions are voluntary organisations\u2014a reason has to be provided. What is the problem that now exists that requires such legislative intervention? We do not make laws just for the sake of it. Sometimes National goes on about a nanny State; well, this would be a nanny State if we enacted a law for no good reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI think Tau Henare in his introduction indicated what lies behind this. He talked about the need to protect people from intimidation, and things of that manner, without providing a single bit of evidence of intimidation in the current union situation, and not a single bit of evidence has been provided by any of the National speakers. Essentially, this bill and the talk around it, without providing any evidence, are creating a prejudicial attitude towards unions, serving to soften up unions and workers for more attacks on them, and to create a public climate where they find it more difficult to resist those attacks. David Bennett talked about an ulterior motive for going on strike, but it is quite clear that when workers take the democratic decision, as they do, to go on strike, they are thinking and canvassing all the issues; nobody voluntarily takes a reduction in income for nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EOther negative problems are also associated with this bill, and they have been brought to light by unions such as the Service and Food Workers Union, which says that already employers sometimes try to take injunctions against unions to either prevent or slow up industrial action and to put unions off their stride, by saying \u201CWell, you\u2019re not obeying this union rule or that union rule.\u201D The more we put a legislative framework into the union situation, the more likely it is for employers to try to use injunctions to say that \u201CAccording to this law you did not conduct the ballots quite right. Were all the members informed?\u201D, and all the rest of it. I think it is right, as Darien Fenton pointed out, that this debate is in the context of more industrial action caused by Government policy\u2014for example, court workers in the Ministry of Justice went on a series of rolling industrial actions over the last 6 months and finally won their dispute, which originated in the Government not giving enough to the ministry to pay court workers properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe bill does not address the other side of the equation, which is that of employer lockouts. As has been pointed out\u2014and the Greens would address this in the select committee as it would help us to determine whether we supported the bill beyond that deliberation\u2014there should be a procedure to stop lockouts. There have been very damaging lockouts recently, in the dairy industry and so on, that have hurt workers and employers. In these days of computer technology it would not be at all problematic to email each shareholder of a company and each member of a board, to ask if they supported a lockout and to give the reasons, argue it out, and have a debate over email or in some form. There could be a special meeting and a secret ballot of shareholders before workers were ever locked out. It is probable that at the moment most lockouts are done autocratically by the chief executive officer, and even the board is not informed or brought fully into the discussion, in most cases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWith those few words, I say that the Green Party will be supporting this bill going to the select committee. But our support is conditional on proper justification being provided for it and on alterations being made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u00221a73943786424a17aca44e6c3399c09e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a73943786424a17aca44e6c3399c09e\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Deputy Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare. The M\u0101ori Party supports the right of workers to be treated fairly and with dignity, and we support their right to a safe and healthy workplace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EWe are keen to hear what workers think about the Employment Relations (Workers\u2019 Secret Ballot for Strikes) Amendment Bill, which requires unions to hold a secret ballot before undertaking strike action. We understand that the Council of Trade Unions has said it would support the bill because that is what is happening in the workplace anyway, but we have also heard that the Service and Food Workers Union does not support the bill and that it has criticised the Council of Trade Unions over this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EWe have some concerns, but we will support this bill at its first reading to ensure that it goes to a select committee for a wider consideration of the submissions from affected parties, and because Tau Henare said I had to. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022b489027bd5494cbf844a2ab3ca14b397\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b489027bd5494cbf844a2ab3ca14b397\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to stand and speak in support of Tau Henare\u2019s bill, the Employment Relations (Workers\u2019 Secret Ballot for Strikes) Amendment Bill. Like my friend and colleague Darien Fenton I say that it is nice\u2014and I do not share the view of a previous speaker that this bill should not be supported\u2014to see a bill that relates to workers that does not deal to workers. I congratulate Tau Henare on that; I think that is really commendable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E Members on this side of the House have been very supportive of Tau\u2019s notice. Indeed, Trevor Mallard was very helpful in terms of supporting the member. With all sincerity, I ask that the member consider supporting another workers\u2019 bill that will be coming to this House very soon. It is the bill about supporting the right of every worker to redundancy compensation. If the goodwill that I can feel flowing across the Chamber can be replicated for that bill, it would be a very happy day in this House. I do not think we see many happy days in this House at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThis bill is nothing short of aspirational. It is not non-binding, but, in a funny way, it has that same feel about it. It is aspirational in that it does what is already happening in practice, and there is nothing wrong with that happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI also want to put on record\u2014and I say this very sincerely to the member\u2014that I remember that he was as renowned in the union movement for his contribution, his diligence, and the work he did, as he is in this House. Everyone on this side of the House\u2014and I can see affirmation from other members\u2014thinks that Tau Henare\u2019s contribution is certainly up there in this House with what it was in the union movement. I say that with all sincerity to the member. [Interruption] Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI wonder when the last time was in this House that we have been able to say anything positive about any of the National members of Parliament. Certainly, there is no time that I can remember. This may not be a huge issue, but it is something that is deeply felt by the member. It is something that he has held close to his heart since the 1980s. It is probably what drove him to stand for Parliament. I will make sure that I hear his speech at the end of his career, because I know that this bill will be up there as one of his achievements. It will go down in history. It is disappointing that the M\u0101ori Party is not supporting this bill at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203b2b25850664005ac5cf2809f3e3412\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: They are supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022303a86bf9f7d4134b3e87cf57c22b9b1\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise. Despite the workers unions, the M\u0101ori Party is supporting this bill. Apart from, perhaps, the ACT Party\u2014although, maybe even their members will support it\u2014there will be a meeting of minds in the House. The aspirational member Tau Henare has brought this House together under this bill and it is very commendable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EIt seems rather sad that I have to say this when we are being quite positive, but there are things that have come before this House in terms of workers\u2019 rights that are not so aspirational and not so good. Those are things like the 90-day bill, which is now an Act. I wish that Tau Henare had applied his heart and soul and had stuck up and convinced his caucus, as he has with this bill, that it was something that should not have been done. Although we have seen the minimum wage go from $12 to $12.50 an hour, the cry is to get that wage to $15 an hour. There was the slashing of pay equity, which\u2014hello, d\u00E9j\u00E0 vu\u2014is exactly what happened in 1991. I urge the member\u2014and I can see that he is listening really intently\u2014to reconsider his position on some of those issues. In the future, I hope that we can see more of a meeting of minds on bills for workers\u2019 rights. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u002244d5e4357c2b43b6a2da60277495ce16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244d5e4357c2b43b6a2da60277495ce16\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to speak in the first reading debate of the Employment Relations (Workers\u2019 Secret Ballot for Strikes) Amendment Bill, in the name of my colleague Tau Henare. The bill amends the Employment Relations Act 2000 to require unions to hold a secret ballot of their members before undertaking any strike action. I understand that this is current practice in the larger unions. I absolutely support that this is current practice, but it may not be the case in smaller unions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI respect the work of unions and organisations such as the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions. Their philosophy and driving force is that everyone has the right to decent and productive work in conditions of freedom, equity, security, and human dignity. Who would not support that sentiment? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EWhen this bill was drawn from the ballot, it was somewhat controversial. Some Labour members and others said that it was not necessary as it was already current practice. When the bill was drawn from the ballot, the New Zealand Amalgamated Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union said that it was out of touch and not needed as secret ballots are already practised. That may well be case for the large unions and those affiliated to the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions, but it does not represent all unions. It represents only 80 percent of unions, and it does not speak for all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EHowever, I am pleased to see that the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions has come out in support of the bill in principle, and it is to be commended for that. However, it is concerned that the bill is not balanced and believes that it must be changed to also require employers to follow democratic procedures, including a secret ballot with shareholders prior to a lockout. That is what a select committee process is for. It is the right place to hear all the arguments and the evidence. The select committee will invite public submissions, work through the issues raised, and decide what changes, if any, should be made to the bill. The bill will be a better bill when it comes out of the select committee, as that is the place where amendments can be made to improve it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI am pleased that our Labour colleagues are supporting the bill, as are our M\u0101ori Party colleagues. I am also pleased to see that the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions has indicated that it will be making a submission when the bill gets to the select committee. There is no point in making legislation for the sake of making legislation. Parliament needs to make laws to improve the current situation, and I am sure this bill will do exactly that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EAlthough this bill\u2019s provisions may be current practice and no would disagree with that sentiment, why should that practice not be enshrined in law? No worker should be made to feel intimidated or under pressure to vote, or not to vote, for strike action. No worker should feel coerced to vote in a certain way. It should be a free vote, and it must be a personal choice. That is the democratic way, and I am sure no one would disagree with that. There is no doubt that when strike action is contemplated emotions run high and both sides feel aggrieved. Strike action is the last resort when all avenues have been exhausted, the parties are at a dead end, and no agreement has been reached. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe stakes are high when strike action is contemplated, and it is a tense time for all concerned. Objectivity can be lost in situations like that, and it is not hard to see that if there was not a secret ballot a worker could feel intimidated into voting in a certain way. Also, let us not forget that strikes can be stressful financially and emotionally for a worker. Not every worker will have the same personal circumstances, so it is fair that any decision a worker makes is free of judgment from anywhere else. People must feel at ease with the process, and this bill will ensure it is a legal requirement for all unions. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7f1810dd3774f9e8cea27fe8e0d9c24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7f1810dd3774f9e8cea27fe8e0d9c24\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to speak on this member\u2019s bill, the Employment Relations (Workers\u2019 Secret Ballot for Strikes) Amendment Bill, although I am quite perplexed as to why we are taking up the time of Parliament debating an issue that is already fixed. I think that everyone who has already contributed to the debate has said that unions, because they are democratic entities, operate in that way, anyway. None the less, it is good to see a National member standing up for the principles of democracy, because that has not been the case lately. Democracy has seemed to take second place to what the Government thinks is right for communities such as Canterbury, for example. Democracy has taken a back seat when it comes to the good people of Canterbury and the environmental needs of their area. But, moving on from that, I thank the member for bringing this matter to our attention. This is about saying that when workers make the very, very important decision to go on strike\u2014and it is the course of last resort\u2014when they make the decision to go without their income, to not to be able to pay their mortgage, to not to be able to be sure that they can put food on the table for their children, that very, very serious decision should be one where they can ask themselves, through a secret ballot, whether they really want to take that course of action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EToday we heard that, sadly, more and more frequently under this Government workers feel forced to make exactly that decision. It was announced just today that under this Government the number of industrial disputes is at its highest level for 5 years. That is the issue that really does need addressing. Tau Henare can play around with the right of people to cast a secret ballot in order to make this terrible decision, but it is a terrible decision, and it is one that is happening more and more frequently under this Government. Workers feel forced to cast their vote to go on strike and to go without an income in order to fix up an inequity and unfairness in their workplace. No worker takes that lightly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI speak from experience, not as far back as the 1980s\u2014although some of it was during the 1980s\u2014but I have more recent experience than that. The era that weighs particularly heavily on my mind\u2014and I hope that one day I will get to bring in a member\u2019s bill that will fix up some of the things that I have been harbouring for 20 years\u2014was my experience as a union organiser during the 1990s for the nurses union. I know that employers stood over union members and forced them to sign pieces of papers saying they resigned from the union. They were then faxed through, one after the other, to the union office from rest homes. That was so that those rest home owners could ensure that they could take penal rates away from people who worked weekends and nights during the 1990s under a National Government, so that they could make more profit out of the care of older people and not pay for the people who had to work those unsociable hours to care for them properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EIt is important that we continue to discuss industrial relations issues, because the rights of workers to get fair pay for the work that they do is fundamental to this country going forward. We have not always done well in that regard in this country. Sadly, we are seeing more and more situations in this country where workers are voting to go on strike. It is not because they feel like going without pay, not because it is a great lark for them, and not because it is a holiday, but because something their employer has done under this Government has caused them such grief that they are prepared to stand up and fight for it. They are prepared to put their mortgages at risk, and they are prepared to maybe not be able to feed their children, because the inequity going on in their workplace under this Government is so serious that they will take that course of action. I say to Mr Henare that that is the real mischief that needs fixing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9d7e97f236b4884bfb032acdf5b0d3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9d7e97f236b4884bfb032acdf5b0d3c\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I want to take just a quick call in support of this bill. I think that we may have unanimity on the bill, although I was not quite sure where the Greens were coming from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI want to touch on a point that Ms Moroney made about employers standing over union members. In my experience in the health sector, that has occurred, but so too there have been union members standing over other employees, influencing their decisions and coercing them into supporting industrial action when the financial consequences on their families may be greater than the benefits of striking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EOne of the other things I was surprised to learn was that, although we quote ILO conventions quite frequently, the right to strike is not set out in the ILO conventions and recommendations. A number of documents do set out the conditions for the right to strike, and they include the obligation to take strike decisions by secret ballot. So in introducing this bill we are lining up our legislation with that noble cause, and for that reason I support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022311b48b05ac64052ad28634e684f531b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022311b48b05ac64052ad28634e684f531b\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am absolutely overawed with the 100 percent support that my bill will achieve tonight. It is something that has not happened for a long time. It is a very moving part of my parliamentary career. I will not say much. I could say a lot about the criticisms that have come my way from some people, but let us not ruin the moment. Let us all bask in the glory of the unification of this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002251cae68fbb774b27b3dc0a7b1adeb396\u0022\u003EMinimum Wage (Mitigation of Youth Unemployment) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227164b306a3a04353b7f94b34e015c5cb\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a45b525868a648ce88148929ef9e5ebd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a45b525868a648ce88148929ef9e5ebd\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Minimum Wage (Mitigation of Youth Unemployment) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time, if it is given a first reading\u2014it does not appear likely\u2014I will move that it be considered by the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EThis bill is about two very simple things. The first thing is jobs. The second is helping young people find their footing in the labour market and giving them a start. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003ESince the previous Labour-led Government abolished the youth minimum wage in 2008, youth unemployment has soared. Since 2008 youth unemployment for 15 to 19 year-olds has almost doubled. The number of unemployed youth has risen by more than 18,800 people. The recession has had an obvious impact, but the youth unemployment rate is far higher than usual in a recession. University of Canterbury economist Eric Crampton has demonstrated that there was a large rise in the youth unemployment rate relative to the adult rate after the youth minimum wage was raised to the adult level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EThe youth unemployment rate today stands at 26.5 percent\u2014a national disgrace. The rate for M\u0101ori youth is even worse: it stands at 38.7 percent. Almost two out of every five young M\u0101ori people in this country are unemployed. To put it in another way, for every 1\u00BD young M\u0101ori people who are in employment, one person is unemployed. Yet the M\u0101ori Party, as I understand it, intends to vote for this situation to continue. It intends to vote against this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EWhy do National, Labour, the M\u0101ori Party, and the Greens keep pretending that the abolition of the youth minimum wage has helped people in New Zealand when it has, in fact, stopped many young people from finding work? Labour and now National tell us that they care about the young people of this country. But the people of New Zealand should not be fooled: it is those parties that are responsible for the large number of young people who cannot find work. Labour and now National have forced thousands of young people to go without gainful employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EWhy does the youth minimum wage have this unintended consequence? Businesses are not charities. They respond to prices just like the rest of us. The abolition of the youth minimum wage has priced young people out of the market. That has occurred because many young people are just starting out on their career. They will be searching for their first job. Their lack of training and experience means that they have few skills. What Labour and now National have forced young people to do is to compete with adults. They are forced to compete with those people who have had a lot more time to gain experience and who have more skills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EI find it hard to believe that the National Government will not support this bill when it has conceded that the abolition of the youth minimum wage has led to unemployment. Then again, the National Party has always been bold in Opposition, but has proved to be spineless in Government. As Wayne Mapp said when debating this issue in 2006\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226449794ef67d43f9833b850a6f86bc4f\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am reluctant to do this, but, in the interest of decorum in the House and despite the fact that the National Party did not take objection, I note that references to members of Parliament or a parliamentary party being \u201Cspineless\u201D have been ruled out of order on a number of occasions. I can remember back to when comments made by the Rt Hon Sir Robert Muldoon including that particular word were ruled out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235017b78e55546798fb10eb7e1065816\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I think that that reference was related to one individual member and not to a party as a whole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1e6380d6cf44d89834b8bc4ed09829f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think that that is an important distinction. Where a member accuses another member of being gutless, spineless, or lacking in courage, it is clearly out of order. But had National members been worried, it would be up to National members to object if they found it offensive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba5d0581cd1c401f81b9d5e00ea6d196\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying, Wayne Mapp stated: \u201CThe problem is if one artificially boosts minimum wages to levels that are, frankly, too high, one ends up reducing profitability, reducing opportunity, and reducing the ability to put more money into approving skills.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EWhen National is in Government, it plays the numbers game. Those thousands of young people who are out of work do not, in general, vote. Some of them are too young. It does not matter to the pollsters in the National Party. When in Government, National is happy to help out the unions, who want to erect higher and higher barriers for those who are out of work. In Government, National clearly does not believe in principle or in bold implementation. The only question it appears to ask is: \u201CHow do we stay in power?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EWhat is the alternative offered to unemployed youth? The law makes it illegal for a young person to be hired on anything less than $12.75 an hour, or $510 a week. In other words, unless young people have a productive value of at least $510 a week, they are unemployable. That is what John Key, Phil Goff, and Pita Sharples are saying. The people who say that they care for young people are saying to the 16-year-old who could earn $400 a week that he or she is not allowed to do that. They have made it illegal for him or her to work at that rate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EJohn Key and National care so much about their short-term images that they will stop young people who have the capacity to earn $400 a week from doing so\u2014that is, from having a job that pays them that amount. Instead, John Key and National, supported by Labour, will force those young people to collect a benefit of $160 a week. They care so much for the young people of this country that they will make many of them unemployed, and in the process they will make them $240 a week worse off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EBut even worse than that, the National Party, the Labour Party, the Greens, and the M\u0101ori Party all say to unemployed young M\u0101ori of 16 years of age not only that they cannot accept that job paying $400 a week but also that they cannot get the job in the first place. They say that they cannot start developing their skills and cannot get work experience. We failed many of those young people who do not have a productive value of $510 a week. We failed them through the education system, and now we intend to fail them once again in the labour market for certain. Instead, we are saying to the young person who could get $400 a week at the Warehouse or at a grocery store that he or she cannot accept that $400 a week; he or she has to go on the dole for a $160 a week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EWe are saying that young people should sleep in until 11 o\u2019clock and sit around playing the PlayStation, and if that $160 is not enough, then they can supplement their income in some other way. We are saying that they should not get a legitimate job, because we will not allow them to get a legitimate job. No, we will not. \u201CGo and join a gang\u201D\u2014that is what we are saying to the young people of this country. We are saying that they cannot have a legitimate job earning $400 and that we will pay them $160, so they should go and supplement their income. I had such a young person talk to me today who is doing exactly that: joining a gang. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EIt is increasingly clear to those New Zealanders who are economically literate that if they want a Government that is genuinely different from Labour, then they should not vote for National. National may get things right when it is in Opposition, but it will always be weak in Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002217dec0360faa41ef81b11fd26b4526c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217dec0360faa41ef81b11fd26b4526c4\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E In this debate I think we will see most members of the House, especially members of the two main political parties, unified in their opposition to the Minimum Wage (Mitigation of Youth Unemployment) Amendment Bill. I will start by responding to some of the issues that have been raised by the presenter of this bill. In the context of looking at the youth of New Zealand and at the future this country has available to it, of which this Government is very much aware and which it wishes to promote, we see a bright future for our young people. We see our young people getting education, skills, and training, and having a direction and purpose in life, and we see a positive, successful, and dynamic future for New Zealand\u2019s youth. Those things are essential if our country is to achieve its goals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe fundamental proposition this bill puts up is that we need to pay people less to get them into their first job so that they can have an unskilled future. That is what this bill essentially will do to New Zealanders. We see a different future for New Zealanders. We want those young people to get into training and skills so that they are not talking about getting the lowest-paid job they possibly can, but instead are looking to get the best-paid job they possibly can. If we can achieve that, we can make the dynamic change in our economic base that will give New Zealand the growth potential we need. I think that is the fundamental point that the ACT Party has not grasped. It is looking at things in a historical perspective. Well, the world has moved on. At this stage we need to create an economy that has a strong and successful workforce, and to do that those young people need to get the best skills they can, at the youngest age they can. We should be promoting to them the need to get education and training, not encouraging them to take the easy option of temporary employment, which may provide some financial gain at an early age, but will not deliver long-term benefits for them as we go forward as a country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThat is the dynamic that I think the ACT Party has not grasped. It is looking at it from the perspective that we can just give lower rates of pay, and therefore people will be happy. It is also scaremongering by talking about things like youth gangs, taking the dole, and all that kind of \u201Cwork\u201D. That is not the reality. The reality is that youth want to achieve and get a decent start in life. Where do we set the rate? Where do we set a youth rate, if we are to have one? What is the value that would be put on a young person, under the ACT proposal? I imagine that if we were to take ACT\u2019s logic to its full extreme, it would be detrimental to have the youth rate that ACT is proposing. ACT should not propose a rate if it really wants to get young people into employment, rather than into the gangs or on the dole. To set a rate is to set a line, and the fact of the matter is that the line is set at the minimum wage. I think we will see agreement on that between the main political parties, because we probably share a common vision of what we want for those young people going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI encourage those people who are listening and members in the House to look at this issue in the wider perspective of what we want to achieve in setting some incentives and some direction, and not try to scaremonger or create perceptions that if we have a lower rate of pay at the first level of employment, those opportunities will necessarily be provided. That is not the signal we need to send to young New Zealanders as we go forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI think it is important to look at the situation we are in at the moment. I do not think anybody out there is under any illusion about how difficult it is to get a job. The most difficult and harrowing situation for a student leaving school, university, or polytech is achieving that first start in the employment cycle, or, for someone who has lost his or her job, finding that next job. Many New Zealanders are living that nightmare at the moment. That nightmare has been brought about partly by the nature of our economic position, which is partly caused by world circumstances, but also because we need a stronger and more vibrant economy that can deliver opportunities for our young people going forward. That is the crucial problem, and we as a Parliament should be looking for solutions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe should be looking for solutions so that New Zealanders, and especially young New Zealanders, can see a future in training and in employment so that they can achieve personal growth and the desire that comes with getting a job. That is what this Government is focusing on. It is focusing on the economic fundamentals that will provide the environment whereby employers can hire young people and deliver them the incentives to get ahead and succeed. The Transport and Industrial Relations Committee has debated the issue of youth employment rates and unemployment many times. One of the key points that always comes through is that we have young people appearing before the select committee who are attaining very high levels of management expertise and success at a young age. It is difficult, when we see the logic of this member\u2019s bill, to compare that with the reality of the success of a lot of young people. We are denying them their success by holding them at a lower rate than their ability shows as individuals. It is a tremendous shame if we dumb down our young people, who can provide successful and strong services and can be paid for that at a rate that demonstrates their capability and their ability to do a job well. It is important that we do not set the bar too low, in the sense that our young people who work hard must not find that they get no reward for their efforts. That is something that I think this legislation could have a problem addressing if it goes through this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIn essence, there is a new way of looking at these issues as we go forward. There is a way of building an economy that is strong, and that delivers the skills and enterprise for our young people to take advantage of that strength. The Government is committed to creating that economic environment. We do not believe that this measure will create the environment that the ACT Party says it will. We believe that the true measure of success for New Zealanders as we go forward is a strong economic environment, where we deliver skills and enterprise, we back our young people, and we give them the right direction and rewards so that they know they can succeed. They will then build themselves into even stronger and more successful New Zealanders going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2898144c0a846f7abe3d22b02255b73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2898144c0a846f7abe3d22b02255b73\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E For the second time in a day I find myself in the unusual position of following the speech of a National member of Parliament on industrial relations legislation and just about agreeing with it. I think I can agree with the vast majority of what my colleague David Bennett from the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee\u2014and Tau Henare; the pair share a hairdresser\u2014said on the Minimum Wage (Mitigation of Youth Unemployment) Amendment Bill. David Bennett is right. He has got it. If I were Sir Roger Douglas, I would be slightly insulted that a junior backbencher was sent to the House to deliver the Government\u2019s position; the tradition is that a Minister takes the first call on this sort of legislation to state the position for the Government. A Minister is part of the Government, and a backbencher, of course, is not. I know that procedural niceties are not as important as that as far as this Government is concerned and I think that Sir Roger is not as sensitive as that anyway. He probably would not realise that Kate Wilkinson is a Minister at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d209f39159bf4948b9e286642a8f973a\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Who is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f68aa87dc264c92b9913ac821566577\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Kate Wilkinson, I understand, is the Minister of Labour and the Minister of Conservation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI ask Sir Roger Douglas what happened to his principles. He knows he does not believe in minimum wages, at all. Why did he bring into the House something that he thinks is a half-cocked, halfway approach? Why did he not stand up in the House and say what he really believes, which is that there should not be any minimum wages for anyone? That is what he believes. He believes that it does not matter whether the people who come in to clean up the pig farm are adults or kids, he should set their rate\u2014he, as an employer, should decide what the rate should be. That is his position. He believes in the total power of the employer, rather than having a fair and balanced employment relationship. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThere are a few fairly simple arguments against this bill. One is that we are all waiting for the evidence from Sir Roger that massive problems have occurred as a result of the introduction of youth rates. That evidence just has not come. The reason it has not come is that he could not find evidence that problems have occurred. There is a clear argument in equity for paying people properly, and most people in New Zealand accept that. Most New Zealanders believe that all people should be paid in a dignified and proper way for their labour, and it does not matter whether it is a younger person, an older person, or a person in the main section of the workforce. I say again to Sir Roger that a few of us would have thought more of him if he had come down to this House and said what he really believed, and if he had told the full truth as to ACT\u2019s opinion on the minimum wage, rather than the half-truth or part-truth approach that he took with this bill. Most of his colleagues, funders, and mates in the Business Roundtable actually would not agree with him, but I am certain that Mr Kerr and others who helped draft the legislation would say that from their perspective this is not the best approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe final point I make is that I do not think that National went far enough. My view is that having decent wages forces employers to train. They have to make their workers productive and earn their money. It forces them to invest in proper capital equipment because if they are paying someone a decent wage, they need the right gear in order to make sure they get the return. We have a choice in New Zealand: do we want a high-wage, high-skill economy, or do we want to compete at the bottom end with India and a number of countries like that? Roger Douglas wants our wages to go down; Labour wants them to go up; and National says it wants them to go up, but in real terms it is keeping them down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u00225bae73c20d2b48e5b3f5a9a8ac601569\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225bae73c20d2b48e5b3f5a9a8ac601569\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to speak to the first reading of the Minimum Wage (Mitigation of Youth Unemployment) Amendment Bill. This bill will provide for differing levels of minimum wages for youth and other workers. National will be opposing this bill. We do not feel that it is helpful in keeping the focus on growth and growing the economy, which is needed to create jobs, and which this Government has made a top priority for this year. That will be crucial going forward. Getting the economy right is absolutely fundamental and the rest will follow. I agree with the Hon Trevor Mallard\u2019s argument that we need to be a high-wage economy. Importantly, this Government is focused on keeping youth in education or training, and we have introduced a number of measures to achieve the same. This Government is committed to giving youth every opportunity to achieve and meet their potential. We value our young people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EWe know that not every young person is suited to mainstream education, and that is why the Government is committed to opening trade academies. These are a key part of our Youth Guarantee policy and they will keep more students engaged in learning. They will provide more career choices for 16 and 17-year-olds, and give them greater opportunities to develop their knowledge, skills, and talents through trades and technology programmes. National\u2019s Youth Guarantee is about creating thousands of places at tertiary and training institutes across the country to help 16 and 17-year-olds to stay engaged in learning. We know that the longer youth are engaged in learning, the less likely they are to fail in life and the greater the chance that they will be in work and be productive. We want to see every young person succeed and reach his or her full potential. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThis Government is committed to giving young people the opportunities they need to succeed. Yes, we know that young people have been hit hard by the recession, and there are a number of reasons why we have a recession. Our Job Ops package has proven to be hugely successful. Job Ops is about backing businesses that create work opportunities for young people. We asked firms to provide up to 4,000 young people with an entry-level job for at least 6 months. The Government paid a $5,000 wage subsidy for each placement. Job Ops is about giving incentives to local businesses that hire low-skilled under-24-year-olds for 6 months. It was such a successful programme that an extra 2,000 places were announced in February this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003ECommunity Max, another policy, has also been very successful. Community Max is about inviting local councillors, mayors, community groups, and iwi to play a role creating up to 3,000 work opportunities. We wanted community organisations to come to the Government with local projects that could employ young people and engage them in our communities. The Government paid the minimum wage for 30 hours a week for up to 6 months, a training payment, and for one supervisor for every four participants. Those 3,000 places have now been filled. National believes that every young Kiwi should be able to find his or her way on to the path to success. We are concerned that for young people starting out in their working lives, a long period of unemployment could be very damaging. We know we cannot afford to leave young people languishing on a benefit and risk diminishing the potential of an entire generation of Kiwis. That is why the Government has been proactive in keeping our young people in work, education, and training. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003ENational has not seen any evidence to show that young people are losing their jobs because of youth rates. We are not convinced that this bill will reduce youth unemployment. We should be focused on growing the economy and providing opportunities and jobs for young workers. This Government is doing exactly that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca518ac7ab2146798544afa437d5dcc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca518ac7ab2146798544afa437d5dcc4\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am thankful for the opportunity to speak on the first reading of the Minimum Wage (Mitigation of Youth Unemployment) Amendment Bill. I have to say, how the worm turns! I was in the last Parliament, under a Labour-led Government. We had this very same debate about youth minimum wages, and National voted against it. It is really pleasing to know that National has seen the error of its ways, and has actually accepted that what Labour was saying about youth minimum wages being discriminatory and not having any impact on youth employment was accurate. We have seen from the figures that the minimum wage makes no difference to youth employment. We can argue about research\u2014and the member Sir Roger Douglas will argue about that\u2014but the fact simply is that if someone is working, it should not matter whether that person is young, a M\u0101ori, a woman, or whatever he or she may be. Someone who is doing a job should be paid a decent wage for what he or she does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThis bill seeks to return young workers to the scrapheap of the youth minimum wage, and, as I said, that is not a new argument to have in Parliament. The arguments that Sir Roger Douglas has put for his legislation are well rehearsed. I know that the member was not here for the last Parliament, but I tell him that we went through them then and they were rejected. They were rejected. We went through a select committee process and we heard from all kinds of people, but the arguments were rejected because there was no evidence that increasing the youth minimum wage or young people\u2019s wages has any impact on employment levels, just as there is no evidence that increasing the wages of women has any impact on wages. I think we have seen arguments about that in the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI do not want to be disrespectful to the member\u2014I welcome him back to Parliament\u2014but I ask him whether this is really what he came back to Parliament in order to do. I ask whether this is really what he came back to Parliament to do, because I would be interested to hear a response on that. We had debates on this issue in the last Parliament, but no one can remember what life was like in the 1980s, when that member was in Parliament. No one can remember that, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e9d169290e0447d8fa5e5700de2c107\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I can; I can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d3991586d9d4b7ba3d35d0e515a3127\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Mr Mallard can remember that, but many of the young workers who would be affected by the provisions of this bill were not even born then. They were not even born when that member was last in Parliament. I am sure that he is genuinely concerned about youth unemployment, as is everyone, but I think that his economic arguments just do not stack up. I think we have moved past the economic rationalist arguments that we have seen from the Business Roundtable and from his supporters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWe can look at the record of what happened under the previous Labour Government to New Zealand wages when we removed the youth minimum wage. We progressively moved the adult minimum wage upwards. When we came into Government in 1999, the youth minimum wage applied to young people under 20\u2014I mean, many of those people were not only holding a job but had family and other responsibilities\u2014and we progressively moved the minimum wage upwards. There were significant increases to it, but during that period the rate of youth unemployment kept falling, as did the rate of unemployment for all workers. Everybody knows that the previous Labour Government moved the minimum wage significantly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ESo we can all come up with research on this issue, but I think we have had enough time now, in this Parliament, to know\u2014and certainly National acknowledges this\u2014that moving the minimum wage does not actually have the impact on young workers that the member suggests. I know that the ACT Party\u2019s position is that there should not be any minimum wage, and that wage levels should be left up to the market. The member can correct me if I am wrong. I ask the member to correct me if I am wrong, but that, I understand, is where that party is still at. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EFor me, the issue comes down to some simple things. If we look back in our history we see there was a time, at the beginning of the last century, when we discriminated against M\u0101ori workers. They were paid less than P\u0101keh\u0101 workers. And there was a time, up until the early 1970s, when women were paid less than the minimum wage\u2014less than men. Could anyone imagine that we would ever go back to that sort of discrimination? Would we ever do that? We cannot discriminate on the basis of gender or of race, so can we discriminate on the basis of age? Well, the member is proposing that we should. Should we discriminate on the basis of someone being older than other people? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u002276a4916d04cc42978e24a34f988c1852\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276a4916d04cc42978e24a34f988c1852\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. As the youngest member of this House, it was not that long ago that I was pushing supermarket trolleys, delivering pamphlets, and serving up fish and chips, and being paid at a lower wage than the minimum adult wage. Back in the late 1990s when I was a high school student working after school, I, like many Kiwis, was discriminated against by the youth minimum wage, which applied to 16 to 19-year-olds and was set at 60 percent of the adult minimum wage. In my case, I was actually supervising adult workers, yet due to the law I was being paid less. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Green Party wants to look after Aotearoa New Zealand and all of its people. We believe in a fair go for everyone, young workers included. Everyone deserves a decent living wage, but this bill sets to undo the success that the Green Party, and in particular Sue Bradford in her last term in Parliament, achieved through her Minimum Wage (Abolition of Age Discrimination) Amendment Bill. The Minimum Wage (Mitigation of Youth Unemployment) Amendment Bill, put forward by Roger Douglas, wants to take New Zealand back to the past. Perhaps we would not go back as far as he would prefer\u2014the 19th century and rampant, unregulated capitalism\u2014but as far back as the 1980s and the 1990s. It would be back to the bad old days of the previous National-led Government and its neo-liberal Labour predecessor, in which Sir Roger himself was a key player. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThis bill seeks to reinstate a discriminatory youth minimum wage. It is discriminatory. Why should young people who are doing the same work get different pay? In a fair society we are not paid depending on our gender, our sexual preferences, or the colour of our skin. As The Standard points out, as a parody, the word \u201Cyouth\u201D could be replaced with \u201CM\u0101ori\u201D in this bill. The point is that we would not discriminate based on ethnicity, so why should we on age? Ever since the Equal Pay Act back in 1972, discrimination in rates of pay based on gender has been unlawful, yet the one piece of legislation where discrimination should not be setting guidelines, the Human Rights Act, condones setting up discriminatory wages. Members may have noticed my first member\u2019s bill, on youth human rights, which proposes repealing section 30(2) of the Human Rights Act to make this type of age-based discrimination unlawful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe bill we are debating is misnamed. It is called the Minimum Wage (Mitigation of Youth Unemployment) Amendment Bill, but that is just a front, a Trojan Horse for the real issue. ACT\u2019s buddies in big business want to pay young workers low wages, to keep wages down in general and profits for a few up. The Green Party wants to give everyone a fair go, and thinks it is a tragedy that near to 30 percent of the unemployed are aged 15 to 19. Youth unemployment is rising, but that is because of the recession, not because businesses cannot discriminate based on age. A Treasury report from 2004 said that there had been no negative impact on youth employment from the 2001 changes. In fact, youth were more employed and working longer hours. This bill has nothing to do with lowering youth unemployment; it is about lower wages for workers and higher profits for shareholders and owners. It is tragic that this Government is making moves to make further tertiary studies harder to access and more expensive for our young people. From raising fees to cutting 40 to 45 percent of New Zealand tertiary courses and reducing student loan access, this Government is making it tougher, not easier, for unemployed young Kiwis to train, to get skilled, and to contribute to an innovative, prosperous, and growing economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn summary, the nation\u2019s young are beset on all sides. Our young people are growing up in an increasingly unequal society, an increasingly uncaring society, and an increasingly dangerous one. Those with jobs are threatened by work conditions that breed mistrust, fear, and conflict between workers and employees. The 90-day fire-at-will bill, miserable minimum wage increases, and looming GST rises send all workers, but our youngest and most vulnerable workers in particular, a strong message: this ACT-led, John Key - led Government is standing up for private profit, not for a fair go for all. Last month National somewhat slowed Sir Roger Douglas\u2019s dreams of returning New Zealand to the 1990s, then to Victorian England, when it announced that it will not support this bill. It is a rare piece of good news out of the Beehive, but let us face it: the bill was a bad idea to begin with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Green Party believes in a fair go for all, not in discriminating and setting pay based on age, or on any of the other prohibited grounds of discrimination under the Human Rights Act. The Green Party believes in finding real solutions for unemployed young people, like supporting upskilling and increasing access to tertiary education. That is why the Green Party is opposing this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u00225b57f7b45710415f9068004644ea8748\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b57f7b45710415f9068004644ea8748\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E The M\u0101ori Party has a longstanding concern about the specific issue of youth unemployment. In particular, we have been devastated by the grinding consistency of the rate of M\u0101ori unemployment, which tends to be approximately 2.3 times the non-M\u0101ori rate, and by the fact that M\u0101ori have lower labour-force participation rates than non-M\u0101ori. But we take great heart from the strength of our people, who never give up, and who remind us of the need to keep fighting the fight to ensure that the potential of our young people is enabled and that they are empowered to thrive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EIt was for that reason that the M\u0101ori Party duly recognised the significance of our co-leader, Tariana Turia, being delegated responsibility for M\u0101ori and Pasifika employment, a challenge that she has taken on at full steam. It is within this context that Minister Turia has pioneered the Community Max programme, which has been immensely successful in its short duration. In fact, at last count some 3,200 positions had been filled, and, of those, approximately 1,900 were taken up by young M\u0101ori. That has been an incredible endorsement of the success of the programme. It is an endorsement that we see and hear about right throughout our electorates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThere have been two ground-breaking media releases in the last 10 days that give us room for hope, although they have received very little media attention. Two days ago Minister Bennett announced there was an overall increase of 9.5 percent in job vacancies between January and March of this year. In the previous week, we learnt that the number of New Zealanders receiving an unemployment benefit dropped by almost 4,000 in the last month. Most significant of all, in our mind, was that 2,500 M\u0101ori cancelled their benefits in March because they had found employment, as did 546 people from Pasifika communities. That is great news, and we hope to hear and see more of the same. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWe come to this bill with some cynicism about the allegation that 20,000 young people have lost their jobs as a result of introducing minimum wages for young people. The explanatory note of the bill paints a grim picture that implies that because the youth wage rates were abolished and aligned with the minimum wage for adults, mass unemployment would occur. It goes further and suggests that equitable pay for youth workers at the minimum wage for adults is detrimental to their employment prospects. Our concern is that we simply have no evidence or analysis to suggest that such spurious claims have any factual basis. The more likely reason is the global economic downturn that has ravaged the employment sector generally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EI want to make it absolutely clear that the situation of job seekers is of immense concern to us in the M\u0101ori Party, and it was in this context that we absolutely supported Community Max. The challenge for the Government, however, is to determine what the next step of engagement will be to ensure that those young people do not enter or return to unemployment. I know that every member of this House and every electorate has seen incredible progress in connecting young people to the positive work already going on in our communities through the Community Max scheme. The reason the programme was so successful is that, along with receiving the minimum wage for 30 hours\u2019 work a week, those Community Max graduates achieved a great sense of self-satisfaction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe answer does not lie in short-changing our young people by giving youth a few extra dollars on an hourly basis, when that amount does not even match the rate of inflation. We want solutions, not bills that create more problems. The M\u0101ori Party will not be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00229b9a9a677770435e81161f7dfd26bb03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b9a9a677770435e81161f7dfd26bb03\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am somewhat bemused to be in the Chamber again debating another bill introduced by the member the Hon Sir Roger Douglas that, I think, fundamentally attacks the rights of young people. I find it bizarre, also, to be agreeing with some of the contributions made by the Government. But I still find it a bit rich for the Government to claim that it is against the Minimum Wage (Mitigation of Youth Unemployment) Amendment Bill because it values the young, and because it is interested in youth unemployment as an issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s scorecard on youth issues is dismal. I was reflecting on those issues as I was preparing my contribution to the House today. The list looks something like this: failed boot camps for young offenders; treating child offenders as adults; targeting students who are struggling to pay loans after completing tertiary education; capping enrolments in polytechs and universities, and turning away 8,000 young people; trashing youth health centres; and cutting funding to the youth workers association. If the Government goes ahead and supports voluntary student union membership, I will be adding that to the list of lost services also. But I also have something to say about the absence of the Government\u2019s action on some critical issues, and I add youth unemployment to that list. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThis bill, naively I think, purports to address the issue of youth unemployment. It is an antiquated and discredited argument to claim that if youth are paid less, that will fix the issue, rather than simply perhaps shifting unemployment around. We have an evidence base from within New Zealand to discredit that argument with. Labour increased the youth minimum wage by 126 percent and 81 percent for the two different age groups. At the very same time, youth unemployment in New Zealand fell to 11.8 percent\u2014one of the lowest levels that we have seen. No one in this House is denying that youth unemployment now is high, and is a significant issue that we should all be concerned about. In fact, it is an issue that the entire OECD is struggling with, but only nine countries have looked at lower youth minimum wage rates as a potential way of addressing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe member raised the significant youth unemployment numbers we face. When was the last time that youth unemployment was as high as it is now? It was in the 1990s, when the youth minimum wage was in full swing. I have spoken to people who work in the New Zealand labour market at an academic level. They tell me that moving around minimum wage rates for young people is simply not the answer, from an evidence-based perspective. What will fix the situation? There is no point saying that these young people would have jobs if we simply paid them less, if the jobs are not available in the first place. Job creation in New Zealand is a significant issue. Skills training for our young people is a significant issue, as is making sure that they are educated in areas where we have gaps in New Zealand. Did I hear anyone say that the Skills Strategy may have contributed to answering that? But the Government decided it was best suited to the shelves. All of that would have contributed to fixing our youth unemployment issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EInstead, the only response that we hear on this from one party in Parliament, through Sir Roger Douglas, is that we should simply pay young people less. In fact, one of his arguments was that, somehow, paying young people equal pay for equal work\u2014paying them equitably across the board with peers doing the same job\u2014would contribute to their choosing to join youth gangs. That is a completely abhorrent argument to make, that somehow we are sending a message to young people that we do not value them. It was certainly the message that I took when as a young person I was paid less for a job I was doing that was exactly the same as the job of an older peer\u2014that I was not valued as a young person. That was the message I received. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI have asked young people their view of this bill. I have asked young people about it. One young person told me that he agrees with this member\u2019s bill. When I asked him whether he felt that having a different minimum wage would give him a decent wage to survive on, he said yes. I asked him how he would pay the rent, and he pointed out that his mum and dad covered it for him. I do not believe that this is a realistic bill that addresses the significant issues that young people are facing. I hope that we come back to this House and debate the real issues around youth unemployment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u002247ee02aa4fbf479b98b401ca9c206e53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247ee02aa4fbf479b98b401ca9c206e53\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I read in the New Zealand Herald this morning \u201CApathy towards jobless issue does us no credit\u201D, and that 38 percent of M\u0101ori aged between 15 and 19 are unemployed. I do not totally pooh-pooh Sir Roger Douglas\u2019 idea, although we will not be supporting his move. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI want us to cast our minds back to the last time we had such a scandal in terms of unemployment. I do not lay the blame at anybody\u2019s doorstep. Unemployment is what it is: unemployment. But I find it abhorrent that we would pay somebody the dole to do nothing. I find it abhorrent that we would pay anybody anything to sit at home and to do nothing. I think there are better ways, and this country has seen better ways, of dealing with unemployment, especially in those high unemployment zones, as I like to call them. They are basically the north, the East Coast, and pockets of the suburbs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I think we should be seriously looking at, along with what we are doing with Community Max and our other programmes, like Job Ops, is putting all of our energies\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e061c5bff63401fa9270608a96463d4\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: When was the last time anyone went into one of those?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b42108aeeba43b8848acac5cfd3bae9\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member should just listen and stop being captured by the old-style dogma that he likes to talk about but does not really believe in. He wants to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213cd47c029bd489190b86356dfe87968\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, \u201CBottler\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bb7507bdb3d4cdd89ad605624201dbb\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: I have given up those days, I say to Mr Mallard. I have given up those days. I am not like that member, who lives in the past all the time, trying to live off past glories. The only thing that the member does right these days is to ride a bike, and that is all he is famous for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EBut, anyway, let us talk about those zones that I was talking about. Why are we not saying to ourselves right across this House that we should designate the East Coast and the north as special economic zones, where we get in there, boots and all, and help? Some of the things that Sir Roger Douglas says speak the truth, such as that it should be a national scandal that 38 percent of M\u0101ori aged between 15 and 19 are unemployed. I ask why we are not jumping up and down. As the article in the New Zealand Herald said this morning, it is most probably because when 95 percent are employed, nobody gives a toss about the other 5 percent. But if we break that down, we will see some horrible statistics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI am saying that maybe we should be thinking outside the box. Maybe we should be designating places like the East Coast and the north as special economic zones. This is not just for M\u0101ori; this is for everybody in those areas. One unemployed P\u0101keh\u0101 and one unemployed M\u0101ori are the same, because they do not contribute to the region\u2019s economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI do not want to get up and say that I support the reintroduction of work schemes, but I will tell members about work schemes. The great thing about work schemes was little communities\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a90f6bcc9044eb98bc2dfb89b2d0041\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s on a west Auckland work scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d691fb92c12843aabf73642b2e9df0c6\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, no. Little work schemes were great for places like the Hokianga and Ruat\u014Dria. I know that the member really does not give a toss. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EBut at the end of the day, we can talk to any people who served their time on a work scheme, whether it was a Project Employment Programme scheme, a Temporary Employment Programme scheme, a JOVTP scheme, or a TOPTT scheme, and they will tell us that what they got out of it was a bit of pride and a bit of money in the bank, and the little community of, say, the Hokianga would have been a special zone to them. John, Mary, Frank, and whoever else who was on the scheme\u2014it might have been only 30 people\u2014would have been able to get that community cracking. Although I am not advocating a return to the Project Employment Programme schemes, I say that it is time we used our initiative and the forces we have to look at this matter more seriously than just getting rid of minimum youth rates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2c1bef082de4bcea75ce29766ff87c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2c1bef082de4bcea75ce29766ff87c4\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E It was an interesting debate: not one solution to the unemployment rate amongst young people was put up by any speaker. The fact is that National has already conceded the principles of my Minimum Wage (Mitigation of Youth Unemployment) Amendment Bill. It did that when it said that the abolition of the youth minimum wage has led to unemployment. That is why the National Government has implemented the Job Ops scheme, giving businesses $5,000 to hire someone between the ages of 15 and 24. It has done that because it knows full well that the businesses could not afford to hire those young people without that subsidy. Instead of facing the truth and reversing this silly policy, the Government\u2019s solution is to spend more taxpayer dollars trying to restore to youth the ability to get a job that was taken away by the Government in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EThe whole thing is absolutely ridiculous. Whether or not we want to deny it\u2014and everyone in this House was denying it tonight\u2014there is one economic reality that we cannot overcome, and it is that wages will always reflect the productivity of the worker. Regrettably, thousands of young people do not have a productive value of $510 a week, and to those young people who do not have a productive value of $510 a week, we have said that we will put them on the scrap heap. We have said we will throw them on the scrap heap. In my area a decile 6 school had a test for young people coming into that school. One of the questions asked if we have 36 apples and we eat 27, how many we have left. Guess how many people got it wrong. It was 23 percent. One in four got it wrong. The school system has failed these young people, and what this House is doing is making damned sure that the labour market will fail them, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EWhat we are doing\u2014the National Party, the Labour Party, the Green Party, and the M\u0101ori Party\u2014is saying to young M\u0101ori people of 16 years of age that they cannot accept the job. Even if they are offered one at $400, they cannot actually take it. We say that by law they cannot take that job. They cannot go into that job and develop the skills they did not get at school. They cannot get that work experience. They cannot get their foot on the ladder. We fail them in the education system and we are failing them in the labour market. We are saying to those young people that we will not help them. They could get $400 in the workforce, and guess what we say to them? We say they cannot have $400, they cannot earn $400. They have to go on the dole and we will give them $160. We would prefer them to be $240 worse off than they could otherwise be, and somehow we are claiming we care for these young people. Do not talk rubbish. We should be ashamed of ourselves, and, frankly, that is why New Zealand is in the cart. It is because we in this House do not have the courage to do what is right. We do what we think is best politically, and that disgusts me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question that the Minimum Wage (Mitigation of Youth Unemployment) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00229e775b1f95e14a6da302d2b01dcabcdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e775b1f95e14a6da302d2b01dcabcdc\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The rules of this House are very clear that members have to vote in the first instance before they can call a division. No one said Aye for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ab08826729a40688664fe8fef40daec\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I accept that no one whom the member might have heard said Aye, but we cannot be sure who might have whispered, or what have you. When a member calls for a party vote, as Speaker I have to respect that the member wants to exercise his or her right to see a vote taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002273b23f97fbe34be698baff085e36c114\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Minimum Wage (Mitigation of Youth Unemployment) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 117\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b4b782a782e34d6f995a7a90ad70400a\u0022\u003EHead of State Referenda Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d6cff4c8d40d4a25a3e6cba516e05ad2\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd08a5fd80e34850a7973b364496c071\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd08a5fd80e34850a7973b364496c071\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Head of State Referenda Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be considered by the Justice and Electoral Committee. This is an important moment in our constitutional history. It is the first time that Parliament has had before it a bill that would enable the people of New Zealand to decide whether to continue to have a member of the British Royal family as head of State, or move to having a New Zealand head of State selected by democratic process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe bill provides for a referenda process where, in the first ballot, New Zealanders would choose between three options: the present system, with the monarch remaining as our head of State; a New Zealand head of State determined by a 75 percent majority vote in Parliament; or a New Zealand head of State directly elected by the people via the single transferable vote preferential system, where the successful candidate would be the first to reach 50 percent of the votes as the preferences are distributed. I have put all three options in the first ballot so that New Zealanders can have a full discussion of them and make an informed choice. If none of the three options gets 50 percent in the first referendum, there would be a run-off referendum between the two leading options. The two alternatives to the monarchy in my bill are the two main types of non-executive President that we see around the world. The German President, for example, is selected by a committee from the Houses of Parliament, whereas the Irish President is directly elected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI want to make it clear that a change from the monarchy would not, under my bill, result in a change in the technical powers of our head of State. That said, a head of State selected by a democratic process might feel that little bit more independent of the Government of the day than the Governor-General, who is both appointed by the incumbent Government and can, in effect, be sacked by that very same Government. You could call my bill a minimal change bill; we would not end up with an executive President like the American President. Some people have said \u201CWell, why bother?\u201D if any change from a monarch would be minimal in its constitutional input. The answer is that I am responding to a significant body of New Zealand opinion, particularly among those favouring a republic, that we should get on with a referenda process. They do not want us to simply tail the Aussies and wait until they have another referendum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe main argument for a republic in both New Zealand and Australia is one of national identity. The question many New Zealanders ask is why we should have a head of State living on the other side of the world who is not a citizen of our country. There is also concern about whether our head of State should remain a monarch\u2014that is, somebody who inherits the job, rather than gets it through a democratic process. The rules of inheritance for the monarch in Britain are also controversial. At present, the succession rules discriminate against female heirs and Catholics in a way that is contrary to New Zealand\u2019s human rights legislation. At present, no one can ascend to the throne and become Queen or King of New Zealand if he or she is Catholic or even married to a Catholic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI stress that this debate is not about whether we like or dislike the Queen or any member of the Royal family. The present Queen has been competent in the performance of her duties, and she turns 84 this very day. I wish her a happy birthday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EHowever, the Queen is in a difficult position as head of New Zealand. Firstly, there is an inherent conflict of interest in the Queen being the head of State of two independent countries, Britain and New Zealand, that do not share the same foreign policy. For example, when Britain sent troops into Iraq, the Queen, as Queen of Great Britain, went down to the barracks in military dress to support the soldiers. That was in conflict with her role as Queen of New Zealand, a country that opposed that same war. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003ESecondly, it is very difficult for the Queen to keep tabs on developments in a country on the other side of the world that she is not able to visit very often. Sure, her representative, the Governor-General, lives here and is more hands-on. But the Governor-General is not fully independent, because he or she is appointed by the Government of the day and can be sacked by that same Government via a Government recommendation to that effect, which the Queen is in no position to refuse. Governors-General taking the Government\u2019s side can be a problem, as in Canada where, 2 years ago, the Governor-General suspended Parliament for a time when the Conservative Government was facing a no-confidence motion. Having a head of State who can operate with true independence is particularly important in our multiparty MMP system, with its constitutional complexities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThere is nervousness among some New Zealanders about changing from the present system. That is natural, but let me allay some of the fears. The first fear is that a change might affect our commitment to the Treaty of Waitangi. I do not believe that is the case. Long ago, the responsibility for upholding the Crown commitments to the Treaty was devolved to the Parliament and Government of New Zealand. The King or Queen of New Zealand is part of the mix, but since 1947 that position has been constitutionally independent from the position of King or Queen of Great Britain. The Queen, as Queen of New Zealand, takes advice solely from the Government of New Zealand. The agency that signed the Treaty of Waitangi in 1840, the British Crown, no longer constitutionally has any influence whatsoever on the domestic affairs of New Zealand, including commitments to the Treaty of Waitangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EAnother fear that people sometimes have is that if our head of State is the subject of direct election, we might end up with a pop star, a celebrity, or a political hack. I believe that we should trust Kiwis to vote responsibly for such an important position. This is what happens overseas. Ireland has a directly elected President with minimal powers, like those proposed in my bill, and the Irish people have elected appropriate heads of State, like the internationally renowned Mary Robinson, who went on to become the United Nations Commissioner for Human Rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EMembers may have noticed that the Attorney-General has issued a report that my bill offends the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act in one respect: by keeping the same electoral role for the first head of State referendum and the run-off referendum, my bill discriminates against those people who turn 18 in the 6 months between the two referenda. I will propose to the select committee an amendment to correct that infringement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI appeal to those MPs who are not sure right now whether they support such a referenda process to at least allow consideration of it by the Justice and Electoral Committee. Even though the bill is a conscience vote in the Green caucus, and we do not all see the issues in the same way, all of the Green MPs will support this bill being referred to the select committee to allow both MPs and the public to fully debate the important constitutional issues embodied in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI do not see this as a left or right issue. People across the political spectrum and across the community have formally endorsed my bill. They include Sir Robert Jones, Dr Ranginui Walker, Peta Mathias, C K Stead, Rob Hamill, and Terence O\u2019Brien. Whatever the fate of the bill tonight, the issues we are debating will not go away. The momentum for change and the momentum for a referendum on our head of State are building every year. It would be a tribute to this House if it faced up to the reality now and allowed this bill to go to the Justice and Electoral Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EFinally, I pay tribute to the many people in the community who are keeping this debate alive, from the Republican Movement of Aotearoa New Zealand, to Monarchy New Zealand, to many concerned citizens and legal experts. I will continue to work with them on these issues, whatever the result of the vote tonight. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u002277e767b7f4a54c779a2b6b53f78ad048\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277e767b7f4a54c779a2b6b53f78ad048\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Monarchism and republicanism can stir strong feelings in people. I can understand why that is so. In centuries gone by, people could be murdered for being one or the other. Today in New Zealand I accept that there are Kiwis who have strong views on the institution of our head of State, but I also suspect that many New Zealanders feel the way that I do. To the extent that they think about the issue, they are agnostic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI, for example, accept in theory that an appointment on the basis of who one\u2019s parents are is an anachronism. But I also, in practice, have respect for the Queen. I was chuffed, like I think many New Zealanders were, to see Prince William, who seemed like a good bloke, having a beer and a barbie with our Prime Minister. In truth, I do not concern myself much with the question of our head of State.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThis nation has so many more pressing and real issues to grapple with, such as Government deficits in an age of ubiquitous entitlements; funding issues for schools, hospitals, fire stations, and libraries; job creation in the face of unemployment; safer communities\u2014we have taxi drivers being killed for a few dollars, dairy owners being robbed for a packet of ciggies, and an elderly woman being badly assaulted in broad daylight for seemingly no reason at all\u2014and a nation that deserves to be more prosperous than it is. Over time, New Zealand may look more seriously at becoming a republic, but many New Zealanders will share my view that now is not the time. Today our nation has so many pressing and, frankly, real issues to grapple with that a head of State debate may well be a divisive distraction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI want members to be in no doubt that a distraction is what it would be. Becoming a republic is necessarily a far more complex issue than replacing a figurehead with a crown with one without a crown. A debate on a different head of State will almost necessarily involve the need to examine our broader constitutional arrangements, including issues such as the place of the Treaty of Waitangi and tangata whenua within our system of Government. National is not averse to these debates, but they need to be taken carefully and responsibly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EIn addition, we would need to think through what the referendum questions would mean in practice. In moving to a different head of State, would we be moving by stealth from our Westminster parliamentary system to something much more presidential? Even if what we move to is not entirely like the American set-up, it may be that, as I think Keith Locke has acknowledged, a head of State elected in whatever way would feel more independent, and the dynamics of our entire system would subtly, but potentially substantially, change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI do not raise these questions to pretend that I have the solutions but to demonstrate that this issue is not an easy swap between a head of State with a crown and one without. It will throw up bigger issues and complexities. Through this bill Keith Locke raises an interesting debate, but not one, I think, to be resolved by a member\u2019s bill that goes to a select committee one day and becomes law the next. In conclusion, when there are more pressing issues let us not get caught up in the spur of moment in a divisive and potentially wide-ranging distraction. If we are to change our head of State, let us do it more carefully and responsibly than the member\u2019s bill process allows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u002209a62c016dc04ca5a366f8d628546d92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209a62c016dc04ca5a366f8d628546d92\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I begin by congratulating Keith Locke on bringing the issue of the republic before this House, and to say right at the outset that Labour will be voting in favour of the Head of State Referenda Bill. We think the bill should go the Justice and Electoral Committee so New Zealanders can have a say on the important issues that it raises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIt is high time for the debate. There is no reason why the debate should be divisive or acrimonious, as the member who has just resumed his seat, Simon Bridges, suggested he fears. There is no reason why a civilised and intelligent debate should not happen on this question. That debate ought to raise many important questions, some of which will need to be addressed immediately, and others of which will require longer-term thought. Some of the immediate questions include whether, when, and how to have a resident head of State; the method by which he or she is appointed; and that person\u2019s tenure, titles, and powers. There are wider, longer-term questions about our symbols of nationhood and our relationship with the rest of the world that ought to be part of the debate. They all involve careful thought about our unique identity and values as an independent, vibrant, diverse, prosperous, stable, egalitarian, Pacific nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe bill also needs to go to a select committee so that the sole inconsistency with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990, identified by the report of the Attorney-General, can be rectified. The inconsistency is minor, and the bill\u2019s sponsor has already indicated that he intends to move an amendment to remedy it, if he is given the chance. The inconsistency is that clause 32 provides for the same electoral roll to be used in both the referenda contemplated by the bill, which would inadvertently exclude those who come onto the roll as new voters in the period between the two referenda. Accordingly, the electoral rights of young people who become eligible to vote in the intervening period would be prejudiced without demonstrable legal justification in a free and democratic society. That is an erroneous provision. It should go, and it will, if we give the bill the chance to go to select committee. But it is noteworthy that, in a bill as substantial as the one that we are now considering, it is the only inconsistency identified. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EOn a personal basis, I am committed to seeing New Zealand become a republic. We should have a resident for president. The bill would need only one or two National or ACT members to vote for it in order for us to start down that path tonight. I still hope that we will see that happen, although the last speech and some of the interjections from members opposite give me little hope as far as National goes. I hope this is our opportunity and that there will be a mature debate that is not marked by spurious claims. If we follow the course mapped by the bill we can remain a member of the Commonwealth. We can and we will continue to honour our traditions, including on days like Waitangi Day, Dominion Day, and Anzac Day. The State will retain all the obligations that have been inherited by the Sovereign in right of New Zealand concerning the Treaty of Waitangi, and otherwise. We will remain a democracy, and, in fact, democracy will be strengthened because we will be required to take responsibility for the final and perhaps the most important aspect of it, the choice of our head of State. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIf, as I fear, having heard the speeches so far, tonight does not mark the occasion on which we begin the republican journey, the reality is that the day surely does not lie far away. Speed that day, so that we can take the final logical step towards repatriating the New Zealand constitution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u00221f6e50a05aec48e1b6aa19c30630916d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f6e50a05aec48e1b6aa19c30630916d\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E National will be opposing the Head of State Referenda Bill. Within our communities, there are people who hold strong views both for and against New Zealand becoming a republic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe present system is working very well. The head of State is the British monarch and the Governor-General is appointed on the advice of the Prime Minister. There seems to be not much public support for New Zealand becoming a republic. At another time New Zealand may look more seriously at becoming a republic. A referendum is a very expensive exercise, and holding such a referendum during such hard times does not seem to be sensible. There are more critical issues before the country that need to be focused on, like creating jobs, economic growth, and creating safer communities for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThis bill provides for the holding of two referendums to reconsider the matter of New Zealand\u2019s head of State. If the majority of the votes in the referendum are for the proposal to retain the present head of the State, there will be no further referendum. If not, the two options receiving the highest number of votes will be subject to a final binding referendum. I oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad278a805b924388897db804ff0c42f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad278a805b924388897db804ff0c42f2\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in support of Keith Locke\u2019s Head of State Referenda Bill. As my colleague Charles Chauvel said, Labour supports the bill going to the Justice and Electoral Committee. We believe that it is time that as a nation we have the conversation about becoming a republic. There are some very important issues to be discussed, and this is not the kind of issue that any Government or party would want to advance by stealth. It must be discussed openly so that New Zealanders can form a view and forge a consensus about our constitutional future. Sending this bill to a select committee would be an excellent way to begin that conversation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI will not repeat the explanation that members have already given about the basic mechanism set out in Keith Locke\u2019s bill, but I will say that it takes a minimalist approach to constitutional change. It simply sets up a democratic decision-making process for determining how we select our head of State. It does not address the myriad other issues that usually come up when republicanism is discussed. This is no technical bill. How we choose our head of State cuts to the heart of our constitutional status: constitutional monarchy or parliamentary republic. The head of State is the most powerful symbol of our nation we have. These are huge issues that deserve to be taken seriously. The late Bruce Jesson said that republicanism was not merely about making a nominal change to the head of State, but about reviving and extending the concepts of citizenship and democracy, and combining the issues of national identity, egalitarianism, and democracy. If we take those issues seriously, we must surely recognise that how we choose our head of State is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ETo me, it is an anachronism for the Queen of England to be our head of State, for the living embodiment of our nation to be a hereditary position. That is the opposite of democracy. The living symbol of our nation is someone the people never get to choose. Our head of State can never be a New Zealand citizen; he or she lives 12,000 miles away, and he or she represents the British Crown, not us. It was noticed, as Keith Locke said, that the British royal family did not send anyone to attend the funeral of Sir Ed Hillary, the greatest New Zealander of our time. It was noticed that our head of State farewelled British troops when they went off to take part in the illegal invasion of Iraq, an invasion that this country declined to take part in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ETo those of us who ask what does it matter, I say that symbols are important. What does it say about our nation\u2019s values when our head of State cannot be a Catholic\u2014in fact, the head of State would be relieved of the role if he or she were to marry a Catholic\u2014and the male heirs to the throne always take precedence over their female siblings? The process of choosing our head of State is an archaic, feudal institution that is rooted in a land on the other side of the globe. It says nothing of the vibrant, diverse South Pacific democracy that we have become. Symbols are important. They denote values and values inform debate. I say that because the themes of egalitarianism, democracy, and nationhood underpin almost every debate that we have in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThere is a view that it would be a mistake to change the way we choose our head of State without also addressing all other constitutional issues that touch on it. Former Prime Minister Mike Moore argues for a constitutional convention. I am not persuaded that we cannot move ahead in changing the way we choose our head of State without also addressing all those other issues. I think our constitution is most likely to evolve in a piecemeal way. If we tried to solve all the issues at once, I fear it would mean that none would be resolved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIt is often commented that New Zealand will inevitably become a republic one day, but not tomorrow. I call it the Simon Bridges argument. Many people who say they support a republic quickly add that we do not need to rush the process because there are many more important issues. I like to think that as a nation we are capable of dealing with more than one issue at a time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EOthers say that we are already a de facto republic and that we already choose our Governor-General, who is selected by the Government of the day. That argument overlooks the importance of symbolism. The Governor-General is not the head of State; he or she is merely the Sovereign\u2019s local representative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u00228a7d7ca1949b4a07902104fc662bc0fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a7d7ca1949b4a07902104fc662bc0fa\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E If the Standing Orders were relaxed for this one night, I would have had the perfect T-shirt to wear to this debate on the Head of State Referenda Bill. I am thinking of the T-shirt that says \u201CHonour the Treaty\u201D. Honouring the Treaty means a great deal to this nation. It means for our indigenous people that we will, as we did before the signing, be able to exercise our sovereignty, our mana motuhake, over all things that are ours. However, to draw on the wisdom of Sir Edward Taih\u0101k\u016Brei Durie, the Treaty is not just a Bill of Rights for tangata whenua but also a Bill of Rights for those who belong to the land by right of that Treaty\u2014tangata Tiriti. Despite the policy and legislative changes that have taken place to better recognise the Treaty of Waitangi, shortfalls remain that adversely affect the lives of wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi, and they compromise our potential as a nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe Waitangi Tribunal\u2019s June 1988 report on the Muriwhenua fishing claim of June 1988 expressed this concern most clearly when talking of the issues around the practical application of the Treaty for the modern world. The report stated \u201CAny impracticality today results not from the Treaty but from our failure to heed its terms.\u201D The important point is that there was, and still is, room for an agreement to be made. These shortfalls also affect the quality of cross-cultural relationships and the operations of society more generally. Despite those limitations, the answer does not lie in disregarding the Treaty and embarking on a debate to establish a process by which the House of Representatives appoints the head of State.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe sole purpose of this bill is to provide for the holding of two referenda on proposals to reconsider the matter of New Zealand\u2019s head of State. The key concern for us in the M\u0101ori Party is that the proposal is not grounded in the Treaty of Waitangi, but is separate from it. As such, we believe that the bill has the potential to make the M\u0101ori-Crown relationship obsolete, which would be a major concern for all iwi. It is our utmost belief that enhancing respect for, and giving better effect to, the Treaty of Waitangi will enhance the quality of life for all. The ratification of Te Tiriti o Waitangi is the ideal that has come through the words and actions of generations of M\u0101ori leaders. It was written into the Kohim\u0101rama Covenant, agreed to by some 200 chiefs in 1860. Indeed, every iwi has their leaders and their legacy bound up in the commitment to enshrining the Treaty in law. We believe that the time is right to entrench Te Tiriti o Waitangi in all legislation so that decision making on matters concerning M\u0101ori, and M\u0101ori and the Crown together, is shared with us all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EAs an example, the Resource Management Act and the Local Government Act would be redrafted to reflect articles 1 and 2, which guarantee our mana and rangatiratanga, and the ability to exercise power-sharing on all issues that affect us as tangata whenua. Therefore, the M\u0101ori Party has a major concern around embarking on a process of debate about the head of State in terms of its potential to create vulnerability around the status of the Treaty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is the only political party where the Treaty underpins our actions through kaupapa tuku iho. The M\u0101ori Party is calling for open and informed debate on constitutional change. It was part of our manifesto that we would establish a constitutional commission to begin a constitutional review aimed at, among other things, drafting arrangements to give effect to the Treaty of Waitangi. It was also a key policy objective of ours to appoint a Parliamentary Commissioner for the Treaty of Waitangi. Accordingly, as part of the confidence and supply agreement between National and the M\u0101ori Party, both parties agreed to the establishment of a group to consider constitutional issues, including M\u0101ori representation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThere has been much talk about documents of aspiration in the last 24 hours. What better precedent do we have for understanding aspiration than the promise articulated in Te Tiriti o Waitangi for a new relationship between P\u0101keh\u0101 and M\u0101ori? It articulated a relationship wherein the rangatiratanga of M\u0101ori would be enhanced and our respective cultures and autonomy would remain intact. It is an aspiration that we will continue to uphold, and it is in that context that we must vote against this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022394893ad2c614b41b42fe4c4edc36ad7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022394893ad2c614b41b42fe4c4edc36ad7\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Deputy Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou kia ora. I welcome the chance to start the conversation on our head of State. I believe that it is time for New Zealand to have the conversation. Changing demographic trends, the monarchy\u2019s growing clash with our culture and sense of egalitarianism, and our cherished democratic principles all mean that constitutional change is inevitable. Tonight we have maybe a once-in-a-lifetime chance, and what do we gain from putting off the inevitable debate? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Green MPs will tonight be voting in support of Keith Locke\u2019s Head of State Referenda Bill, which will give Kiwis the chance to vote on whether we should investigate changing our constitution. I pay tribute to Keith in what has been a 7-year journey up to this evening. A few months back I was sworn in as an MP and recited an oath pledging allegiance to the Queen and her heirs. It was so jarring as a Kiwi to pledge loyalty to a foreign lady, albeit a nice, grandmotherly one, who lives on the other side of the world. I have never met her, never seen her, and never voted for her, yet because of a quirk of history she is our head of State and I had to declare allegiance to her if I wanted to take my seat in this honourable House. For years we have avoided the conversation. Let us have an informed discussion at the select committee now that we have the chance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ENew Zealand with the Queen as our head of State is like the stereotypical adult still living at home with his or her parents. We are like those grown-up adults who talk about maybe getting their own place, who maybe concede that it is one day inevitable that they will move out. Those stereotypical stay-at-home adults, even if their mates who left the nest earlier laugh at them and say they are not independent, argue: \u201CHey, it\u2019s all pretty cruisy being at home; it doesn\u2019t mean much.\u201D, or as Simon Bridges said: \u201CIt\u2019s not really that pressing to be leaving right now.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ELike those stereotypical stay-at-home adults, New Zealanders have their independence in practice. We can stay out as late as we want, do our own washing, even bring our partner home, but, hey, it is embarrassing to bring her home to the place where we are under our parent\u2019s roof and where their rules rule. New Zealand\u2019s situation is just like that. New Zealand is not regarded as a fully independent nation that is independent of the United Kingdom. It is time we start that conversation. Do we stay or do we pluck up the courage to step out on our own, get a flat, get some furniture, and be master of our own house, or do we want to stay with granny? It is time to have the debate; it is inevitable. I am sure that most members in this House would agree with former Prime Minister Jim Bolger that it is inevitable. All the trends point towards constitutional change one day. Why avoid talking about it now? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EOur current head of State clashes with our sense of place in the world. We are no longer the Britain of the South Seas. Our links to Britain are in decline. Britain has not been our largest trading partner since 1973. At the last census 879,000 people, or just 22 percent of our total population, were not born in New Zealand. We are an independent, multicultural nation in practice. We should have a debate as to whether we should be that in theory. Our current head of State clashes with our young people\u2019s vision of the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EA new generation is growing up that sees New Zealand as a proud, independent country that is more Pacific than European. My generation has grown up with Britain in the EU, with New Zealand out of ANZUS, and with our biggest trading partner now being China. Research from 2008 shows support for the monarchy was lowest in those aged 15 to 39, and strongest in those aged over 60. That means that constitutional change is inevitable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ELastly, our current head of State arrangements clash with our culture and egalitarianism. Our head of State institution is discriminatory. Since only recently, and with provisos, could Catholics and women become a head of State. It goes against the Human Rights Act that protects against discrimination on the basis of sex, age, religion, and ethnicity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ELet us ask the people whether they want a head of State 1,600 miles away who has been here only 10 times since 1954 and who leads a very different life from anyone in this country. Let us have the debate on how this will impact Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Let us be open that the Queen has devolved all responsibility to the New Zealand Government but that a special relationship exists between the Crown and iwi. Let us have the discussion and be sure that there is no risk that Governments could use republicanism to evade Treaty responsibilities. We can delay this important debate for another few years or decades, but why? I urge members opposite to pluck up the courage and give us the chance to have this important debate at a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn summary, this is an important debate about who we are as a nation. We are a democratic nation and we should be emphasising that power should come from the people, from tangata whenua, not governed by a foreigner 1,600 miles away. I will vote for Keith Locke\u2019s bill and support opening the discussion. It is time for Kiwis to decide. Let us have that debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022 data-id=\u002277432ff743ff43e786e18d57ef93b134\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277432ff743ff43e786e18d57ef93b134\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN (National):\u003C/span\u003E I think it is appropriate that all of us recognise that people hold different views on republicanism, and I think we should respect that. I have been disappointed in listening to the debate so far from the Labour benches. Charles Chauvel\u2019s view is that, if people are not republican they are wrong, full stop. Phil Twyford talks about this matter progressing under stealth. Who is progressing matters under stealth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e52ae47b2b4d4a04bf2f01802da3c952\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Show some spine!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3c17a456040444d896db85f0eccd406\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to go into a rugby game against you, Trevor. Gareth Hughes talked about plucking up the courage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003EI back my spine against the member\u2019s any day he wants on the rugby paddock or anywhere. The member should not worry about that. My own view on this is driven by the issues raised by the M\u0101ori Party member\u2019s contribution\u2014[Interruption] I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I understand that interjections are allowed but a constant barrage of yelling and screaming is against Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211314c16f6864c1ea7302425b5081100\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: If the member responds as he did, then the rules are very clear that members can respond. If the member had ignored it, he may have had a point, and if he was in his own seat, he would have another one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5edbec0251e41fb8051808beff11ef3\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I remind the member interjecting not to use the word \u201Clies\u201D. He mentioned it a couple of times. I ask members to keep the noise down. Interjections are fine, but continual barracking is not. If I cannot hear, then the level is too high.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265a42e0cda06443db2753b85502fd855\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of my own view, first and foremost\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216a4d99bf4f24c6da9e63e7a32da63cd\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve got a very good view from Roseneath.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecf95cf34d1d40c194056636e967268c\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN\u003C/span\u003E: If the member listened he might hear it. First and foremost, I personally believe that there is not an urgent and pressing desire by the community at large and the public at large to have this debate right now. Therefore, I am not persuaded that we should do it just for the sake of it. But, more specifically, I do not proclaim to be an expert on tikanga M\u0101ori. My contribution to progressing and advancing M\u0101ori causes\u2014my skill sets\u2014are in other areas, and I do not profess to be an expert in tikanga. What I can say is that my koroua and my kuia hold very dear the fact that the Treaty of Waitangi that their ancestors signed was a pact between them and the Crown. It is their wish to hold the Crown to account in respect of the Treaty of Waitangi. I take my guidance from that. I pay my respect to my father, to his father, and to his father before that; because they are the people who have been responsible for trying to advance in partnership with the Crown the cause of M\u0101ori. For that reason alone I will uphold that desire of theirs. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00226979b222fa3b42528bf2a9118430c175\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226979b222fa3b42528bf2a9118430c175\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I am a staunch and proud republican. I believe New Zealand must, and will, one day have a New Zealander as its head of State. I thank Keith Locke for his work on the Head of State Referenda Bill, and I congratulate him on having it finally drawn from the ballot after 7 years. The Labour Party, as we have heard tonight, supports this bill being referred to the Justice and Electoral Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EPolitics is about timing, and the time for New Zealand to have a New Zealand head of State may not be now, but it is time to start a discussion about it. It is important to respect everybody\u2019s views on this issue, and I do. I think also it is important to stand up for what one believes in. In principle, we believe that New Zealand should eventually become a republic, but there are many issues that we need to work through first as a country. Those issues include whether we believe that the head of State should be elected by the people or appointed by Parliament, and how the Treaty of Waitangi will fit with a new set-up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe time is right, as we have heard a number of times tonight, for a public conversation about this important issue. If anything comes out of this debate tonight, that will be the most important thing. As members may already know, I have a strong view in favour of New Zealand becoming a republic with an independent head of State, which will allow us to become a truly independent nation. I believe that it represents New Zealand growing up as a nation. My views have been public on this issue from day one; I talked about it in my maiden speech in Parliament. In January this year I somewhat controversially stood alongside the Republican Movement of Aotearoa New Zealand at the opening of the Supreme Court building.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ELabour leader Phil Goff has expressed the view that we will and should have a New Zealander as our head of State one day. Members of other political parties have expressed similar views, including the Prime Minister. In order for that to occur, we should have a public debate, and now is a good time to start that. I would like New Zealanders to start to honestly debate the issues that need to be discussed, because I have always taken the view that talking about issues is a lot better than not talking about them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EMy friend and colleague Charles Chauvel recently reminded me that Labour has a proud tradition in the gradual move towards independence. Peter Fraser caused the adoption of the Statute of Westminster to be proposed from the Speech from the Throne in 1944. In 1946 he was responsible for the appointment of the first Governor-General to have spent most of his life in New Zealand, Bernard Freyberg. Norman Kirk amended the 1852 Constitution Act in 1974 to make it clear that Parliament could legislate extraterritorially and to ensure that the Queen\u2019s titles were updated to reflect her role as Sovereign of New Zealand. Geoffrey Palmer repatriated the constitution, reformed parliamentary procedure, and introduced the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. Helen Clark abolished appeals to the English Privy Council, New Zealand membership of that body, and the awarding of titles to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThere is a pressing need to confront the question of a resident head of State\u2014a resident for president, as my colleague Charles Chauvel said\u2014because the reign of the present Sovereign is approaching an end. The Australian republic referendum in the mid-1990s demonstrated the need to have a viable alternative model that embodies democratic principles and that will garner public support. New Zealand deserves a head of State who is a New Zealander\u2014someone who lives here and somebody who reflects New Zealand values. New Zealand should have a head of State who reflects New Zealand\u2019s position as an independent nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThere are many more pressing issues at this time and there always will be, but the head of State should be a unifying symbol of our nation, because symbols do matter. New Zealand\u2019s head of State should be democratically accountable. The idea of a monarchy clashes with our sense of egalitarianism, especially given that no New Zealander can ever become head of State, no matter how much ability they have. New Zealand does not need to rewrite its history in becoming a republic; we can retain our flag, the Treaty can be honoured, and we can remain part of the Commonwealth. These are the reasons that Labour supports this bill being referred to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022 data-id=\u002273aa4f9ba52041a98c0edb8a0fc4a38b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273aa4f9ba52041a98c0edb8a0fc4a38b\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I happen to be a huge fan of Prince Charles. I could even say he is one of my heroes, and why would he not be? He is against genetic engineering\u2014passionately against it\u2014he is in favour of organic farming, he is in favour of using natural therapies, and he is opposed to ugly architecture. I could go on and on. I am a huge fan of Prince Charles, but I am not in the least a fan of having him as our head of State if one day he becomes the King.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EIt is ludicrous that we in New Zealand are seriously submitting ourselves\u2014as we will be if the Head of State Referenda Bill is defeated tonight\u2014to for ever having a faraway hereditary head of State. It is completely ludicrous. I believe that Prince Charles is embarrassed at the concept of being the head of State of New Zealand\u2014he has said as much. It is ridiculous. Every now and then, the head of State comes to New Zealand, pays us a little visit, and rather awkwardly wanders around New Zealand. The head of State feels as uncomfortable as we do about having an ancient, hereditary monarchy as head of State of New Zealand. It is completely ludicrous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EI realise that there are issues that need to be worked through, particularly with tangata whenua and the relationship between the Crown and M\u0101ori. But I find it rather depressing to hear the M\u0101ori Party say that it will oppose even debating this issue because of its relationship with the Crown. Does that mean that we as New Zealanders are forever doomed to have a hereditary, faraway monarch living on the other side of the Earth as our head of State because of the Treaty relationship? Keith Locke has addressed that issue. Those sorts of issues should be being debated in a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EI find it tragic that National is vetoing even having a debate on this issue. Frankly, the National members\u2019 interventions were half-hearted and completely lacking in conviction. Most of them did not take a call. One member spoke for about 30 seconds; the other, Simon Bridges, clearly did not believe in it. His heart was not in it. He was given orders by his leader to oppose the bill. We know that many National members support having a republic, but they are simply forced like cannon fodder to vote against the bill, because, for some reason, the Government is afraid of this debate. Why is the House afraid of debating these issues? What is there to be afraid of? Frankly, the refusal to debate this issue is a tragic reflection of New Zealand\u2019s lack of genuine independence. How can our nation be proudly independent if a faraway monarch on the other side of the Earth is our head of State? It is completely ridiculous. I find it offensive, and a growing number of New Zealanders do, too. They will find it offensive that this Parliament will not allow even a debate on this important issue. The House is shutting down debate. What is the House afraid of? Where is the free speech in this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022349d253b9e4449609bcccd8ac39c14bf\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has 5 minutes in reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u0022448347fdf98e463196b8c53ef5c6cc55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022448347fdf98e463196b8c53ef5c6cc55\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E This debate has been a good discussion. I think that people have dealt with the issues in a range of ways, which shows that a debate on this question around my Head of State Referenda Bill, particularly if that bill went to a select committee, would not be divisive. People have been listening to each other and expressing a wide range of views. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThere are different sections of society with regard to the issue of our head of State. There is the 30 or 40 percent of people in the polls who regularly support a republic; the number goes up and down a bit. Then there is the category that Simon Bridges represents. He described himself as being an agnostic who is not quite satisfied with the present situation. He said it is a bit of an anachronism that the head of State should be there because of who his or her parents are. Those two blocks together, the agnostic, dissatisfied people and the republicans, make up the majority of our community. The people who are monarchists are a very small proportion of society. If we are not satisfied with the present situation\u2014and most people in this House are not\u2014why should we not have a discussion on my bill in a select committee? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EAs for the idea that somehow the bill is a distraction, I say we discuss a range of bills in this House, and we do not get people standing up and saying this bill or that bill is a distraction. We discuss a bill on its merits and go forward. As for the issue of whether the bill is minor or not very important, I say this afternoon in this House we had a bill, which we all supported referring to a select committee, on whether there should be compulsory secret ballots for unions that are engaging in industrial action. The unions said they already conduct secret ballots. Was that a minor bill or a major bill? We could say it was quite minor if nobody could see much reason for it, but we supported the referral of that bill to a select committee for discussion there. Why should we not do that for my bill? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe question of the Treaty of Waitangi is a sort of a contradiction. Simon Bridges said he did not want this bill to go through to a select committee because it might bring up issues related to the Treaty of Waitangi. I understand that the National Party and the M\u0101ori Party are setting up a body to discuss the constitutional nature of the Treaty of Waitangi. That will happen fairly soon. I ask why we should not refer this bill to a select committee. What is the M\u0101ori Party scared of? I ask how the provisions of this bill would undermine the Treaty of Waitangi, and why the M\u0101ori Party will not respond to my point, which I have made very directly, that since 1947 there has been zero\u2014and I repeat the word \u201Czero\u201D\u2014constitutional relationship between the Queen or King of Great Britain and the Treaty of Waitangi. That was severed in 1947, so how can discussing this issue undermine a relationship with the Treaty? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EYes, the Crown is important, but the Crown is in this room. The Parliament and the Government are the Crown, and that determines the relationship between M\u0101ori and the Crown. It is a relationship between M\u0101ori and what is represented in this room, which is Parliament and the Government. If the M\u0101ori Party refuses to accept that reality\u2014and it seems that the M\u0101ori Party is, strangely, refusing to accept that\u2014it is actually undermining the Treaty, because it is not directing its relationship towards the people who are responsible. The Queen of New Zealand is completely separate, constitutionally, from the Queen of Great Britain. They are totally separate. The Queen of New Zealand has to obey the advice of the Government of New Zealand; the Queen of Great Britain plays absolutely no part in that constitutional relationship. The M\u0101ori Party is misleading Parliament by saying that the Treaty is in any way in danger. In fact, it is misdirecting people over the nature of the relationship between M\u0101ori and the Crown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EAs for Simon Bridges\u2019 fear that the new head of State might be more of an executive President, that is a pretty weak one, really. Clearly, although there might be slightly more independence shown by an independently elected, New Zealand - based President, the powers in my bill do not allow that person to override Parliament whatsoever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe real question is one of national identity. We are an independent, bicultural, multicultural nation in the South Pacific, not off the shores of Great Britain. We need to have an independent, New Zealand - based head of State who is selected by a democratic process. It is tragic that so many MPs in this House do not accept that, and it is tragic that parties like the National Party, the M\u0101ori Party, and the ACT Party, in spite of the fact that all of them have in their ranks people who support this bill, have whipped those people into opposing it. There is a majority in support of my bill in this House. It has been denied by the party whips and by a fear of really facing up to the issue. I think that is quite disgraceful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f0180dc5059e4cb59cd6d105dd4968ae\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote  was called for on the question, That the Head of State Referenda Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224ba25ab45c144f3bbbef24eaeba90aba\u0022\u003EReports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cca1f783b3d7486e861bf4fb7af32882\u0022\u003EInvestigation into Securities Amendment Act 2002 Commencement Order 2009 (SR 2009/10)\u2014Consideration of Report of Regulations Review Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226f503f868c44324a18dec8b543c6a3d\u0022\u003EJohn Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efeb5f9887a34c05ba65086e571be272\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry. The only person who can move a motion on this matter is the chair of the Regulations Review Committee, who is present in the House, or, in his absence, another member of the committee. I refer the member to Standing Order 247.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ENo member having risen, members\u2019 order of the day No. 5 for consideration of the report of the Regulations Review Committee on the investigation into the Securities Amendment Act 2002 Commencement Order 2009 (SR 2009/10) was discharged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e3e8a71b67054802a3cc7b104851fab0\u0022\u003EBriefing on the Tamil People in Sri Lanka\u2014Consideration of Report of Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000689\u0022\u003ENo member having risen, members\u2019 order of the day No. 6 for consideration of the report of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on the briefing on the Tamil people in Sri Lanka was discharged.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c962e5b5e3b45449a9e12c19e0537c0\u0022\u003EInvestigation into the Copyright (New Technologies) Amendment Act 2008 Commencement Amendment Order (No 2) 2009 (SR 2009/51)\u2014Consideration of Report of Regulations Review Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000691\u0022\u003ENo member having risen, members\u2019 order of the day No. 7 for consideration of the report of the Regulations Review Committee on the investigation into the Copyright (New Technologies) Amendment Act 2008 Commencement Amendment Order (No 2) 2009 (SR 2009/51) was discharged.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fa5af734a8f1439e946e8ab7e9f026cc\u0022\u003EReport by the New Zealand Delegation to the Australia - New Zealand Scrutiny of Legislation Conference: Scrutiny and Accountability in the 21st Century\u2014Consideration of Report of Regulations Review Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000693\u0022\u003ENo member having risen, members\u2019 order of the day No. 8 for consideration of the report of the Regulations Review Committee on the report by the New Zealand delegation to the Australia - New Zealand Scrutiny of Legislation Conference: Scrutiny and Accountability in the 21st Century was discharged.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f2829b9126f447eabca8598c17450ee0\u0022\u003EActivities of the Regulations Review Committee in 2009\u2014Consideration of Report of Regulations Review Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000695\u0022\u003ENo member having risen, members\u2019 order of the day No. 9 for consideration of the report of the Regulations Review Committee on the activities of the Regulations Review Committee in 2009 was discharged.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002210cb90fcca174da68ac84d046313fca5\u0022\u003EBriefing from the Rt Hon Helen Clark, Administrator of the United Nations Development Fund\u2014Consideration of Report of Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000697\u0022\u003ENo member having risen, members\u2019 order of the day No. 10 for consideration of the report of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on the briefing from the Rt Hon Helen Clark, Administrator of the United Nations Development Fund, was discharged.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002215ab0058ea534ed3ba148394c9689f1f\u0022\u003EBriefing on Bariatric Surgery and Its Benefits for M\u0101ori\u2014Consideration of Report of M\u0101ori Affairs Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000699\u0022\u003ENo member having risen, members\u2019 order of the day No. 11 for consideration of the report of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee on the briefing on bariatric surgery and its benefits for M\u0101ori was discharged.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a1769999c02d4b3dbb69e09fb70afecc\u0022\u003EInternational Treaty Examinations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bad472722672410b9b09b1ebc2ada873\u0022\u003EAgreement Between the Government of New Zealand and the Government of the United States of America on Science and Technology Cooperation Contributing to Domestic and External Security Capabilities\u2014Consideration of Report of Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000702\u0022\u003ENo member having risen, members\u2019 order of the day No. 12 for consideration of the report of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on the international treaty examination of the agreement between the Government of New Zealand and the Government of the United States of America on science and technology cooperation contributing to domestic and external security capabilities was discharged.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e4fefcdcf6d7489f9e3647a91f1448e8\u0022\u003EReports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226948b8b50e8b4eb796a9de0c842aa377\u0022\u003EReport from the Controller and Auditor-General on Central Government: Results of the 2008/09 Audits\u2014Consideration of Report of Finance and Expenditure Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000705\u0022\u003ENo member having risen, members\u2019 order of the day No. 13 for consideration of the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the report from the Controller and Auditor-General on Central government: Results of the 2008/09 Audits was discharged.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f5f42b1fd7fc415b9b33d438e17d4dea\u0022\u003EReserve Bank of New Zealand\u2019s Monetary Policy Statement, March 2010\u2014Consideration of Report of Finance and Expenditure Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000707\u0022\u003ENo member having risen, members\u2019 order of the day No. 14 for consideration of the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Reserve Bank of New Zealand\u2019s Monetary Policy Statement, March 2010 was discharged.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223b557709b9a249b38bd7848def27245d\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a7de645d42e44cd6b481277671f4a626\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u2014Leave to Rise Early\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u00224eab3de343c34e65a3408f7e1f86110b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224eab3de343c34e65a3408f7e1f86110b\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave of the House, since we have made such fantastic progress this afternoon, for the House to rise early for the day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1fccb4c919a469db57ec8dedbc64e04\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022 data-id=\u0022444e695f488c4024b484e3b503181f7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022444e695f488c4024b484e3b503181f7f\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Can I speak to the report on the Reserve Bank\u2019s Monetary Policy Statement? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffe6d5f2585942e8a1cc8f7317c4503b\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have already dealt with that. We are now on members\u2019 order of the day No. 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022271e8046a9894a75b38c9891f40175f1\u0022\u003EInternational Treaty Examinations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d6f91d39984f4c06898d57572eb5c8fb\u0022\u003EAgreement Between the Government of New Zealand and the Government of the Republic of Singapore for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with Respect to Taxes on Income\u2014Consideration of Report of Finance and Expenditure Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000716\u0022\u003ENo member having risen, members\u2019 order of the day No. 15 for consideration of the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the international treaty examination of the agreement between the Government of New Zealand and the Government of the Republic of Singapore for the avoidance of double taxation and the prevention of fiscal evasion with respect to taxes on income was discharged.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f3bb36e00f24706b878a45b43098e41\u0022\u003EReports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002247a9dac78bb44c9e93d01e4ada8fcbfd\u0022\u003EAlterations to the 2009/10 Appropriations for Vote Audit, Vote Ombudsmen, and Vote Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment and 2010/11 Draft Budgets for the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General, the Office of the Ombudsmen, and the Office of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment\u2014Consideration of Report of Officers of Parliament Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000719\u0022\u003ENo member having risen, members\u2019 order of the day No. 16 for consideration of the report of the Officers of Parliament Committee on the alterations to the 2009/10 appropriations for Vote Audit, Vote Ombudsmen, and Vote Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment and 2010/11 draft budgets for the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General, the Office of the Ombudsmen, and the Office of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment was discharged.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e40d6ee788004589a6e995251683d93b\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dce9938751d7417782a94652b85c0c6e\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u00224b59bf727afc41ddbe1121b30f48a3bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b59bf727afc41ddbe1121b30f48a3bd\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (Junior Whip\u2014National): \u003C/span\u003EWe have made even more progress now, and I again seek leave of the House for us to adjourn for the day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205417fbf4d164ea9adc41d7bc05cd2b1\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201004208bb6710e63034558bdb1d699297c820a000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"