"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a9e652088e6e4cc291a8439506aeb03e\u0022\u003EWednesday, 5 May 2010\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b0d25ed1a0a249db924cee1764d3eacd\u0022\u003EWednesday, 5 May 2010\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022df189fe8cc314e999825c377d9cf125e\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ac23b335ee9b4a6aa3a2fd2438db9a0f\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226281a0c586db4c1a9eb8c14586c9976d\u0022\u003EMining in Conservation Areas\u2014Ministers\u2019 Recommendation in Cabinet Paper\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022116a68514d1c451fba1c385eff6a994a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022116a68514d1c451fba1c385eff6a994a\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: Has Cabinet rejected indefinitely the recommendation he and the Minister of Conservation, Kate Wilkinson, made to consider mining 467,517 hectares of national park and protected conservation areas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022834f79f2d253487aa765c950ad228825\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022834f79f2d253487aa765c950ad228825\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E Quite apart from the fact that there was no proposal to mine that land, I have to say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e64cc838e40f4519b82952a767914105\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249c25b04e23f4032b68ccc1d1cd740a5\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I note the tricky wording of the question, so I reply that Cabinet has definitely rejected that early proposal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6190091298d4f0692c7665550bd0ca5\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Why did Cabinet decide not to follow his advice to remove protection from areas like Rakiura National Park, Kahurangi National Park, and Mount Aspiring National Park?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222530eb72453e4a439e005fd38f4ca5da\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: In the case of Rakiura National Park, the discussion document asks New Zealanders to consider whether a further aerial magnetic survey is a good idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e3fee26675040b488d3fa8b6fd22b58\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was quite specific: why did it decide not to remove protection from the three areas? That answer did not address that question at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba973688b7b44c3e96079bfe950ac327\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will let the honourable Leader of the Opposition repeat his question so that everyone can hear it clearly, and we will listen to the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f1f788ad2cc416baa48014eb74beb10\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Why did Cabinet decide not to remove protection from Rakiura National Park, Kahurangi National Park, and Mount Aspiring National Park?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0f01beab00b4b378be1887acd17a610\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I say again that Cabinet decided that some aerial magnetic survey of Rakiura might be a good idea. That is part of the discussion document, and that question is being asked of New Zealanders. In the case of other parts of the national park system, there was analysis\u2014and it is also in the document, which the member will have read\u2014that led Cabinet to believe that it was not appropriate to open them up for further prospecting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cd98440b74644e7be25a366b06970dc\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Why was it not appropriate to mine those three national parks, but it was appropriate to look at the Coromandel and Great Barrier Island for mining?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b978d099eba74600aeae2afb67c25946\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: It is because in those cases, Cabinet felt that it was reasonable to ask New Zealanders whether we should make available those tracts of land for further exploration. Simple.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022052390744b0544349882fc7f28cab1df\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0a043c9c2cd4060b47e4592fe6f9999\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the honourable member, but I say to the Labour front-benchers on this occasion that it is hardly fair on the member asking a supplementary question when there is so much noise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022920e5c4c010d40b8abfb38158fb4b3ee\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister give an example of a mine that strikes a good balance between economic benefit and environmental sensitivity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c235c03ebf33425392b89ac8a40f9aca\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I hope that all of the 118 permits issued by the previous Labour Government comply in that regard. I can do no better than quote to the member the words of a former Minister of Conservation who said, when approving the Pike River mine, that it was an area of high conservation value, that when Pike River reached full production it would employ 150 people directly and another 450 indirectly, that it would provide 1 million tonnes of coal a year to be added to the receipts for our current account, and that it would provide lots of jobs. I ask Phil Goff whether he will go back there next year\u2014just as he did last year to try to reconnect with the Labour heartland\u2014and take Trevor Mallard\u2019s advice and say: \u201CYou\u2019re finished. You\u2019re out. Sayonara.\u201D Of course he will not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261f48754533045c292dba1c86d1badb4\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: When he said to the House yesterday, wrongly, that Labour was prepared to, and did, mine in protected schedule 4 land, was he referring to\u2014as the media has since analysed\u2014a permit that was granted when National was in power, a permit that allowed gold and gem fossicking by an elderly man with a shovel, or a permit granted before the relevant park had been gazetted as an area protected from mining?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b3111cf62e54f35a7ecee3377d27e9c\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I answered a question in the House from David Garrett by pointing out that there were two permits for mining on schedule 4 land issued by the previous Labour Government. That is absolutely correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e77392cb54a14d22a20fe849f1b233ba\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: How does he reconcile his statement that the Government\u2019s mining proposals are \u201Cquite modest\u201D with his earlier claim that mining would be key to the step change in the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022968d66faf7b54566985e88fb658b2ee3\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Quite simply\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f130a191dab41849576402c2a6368fe\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the Minister. Members ask questions and either they want to hear the answers or they do not. Quite so much noise makes it very hard for anyone to hear the answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224046554b50674566af98e8d52ac33a69\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: My answer is quite simply that mining at the moment takes up 0.015 percent of New Zealand\u2019s land mass. If that were doubled, it would still be largely unnoticeable but it would provide some $4 billion to $5 billion in GDP. It could provide a similar amount in export receipts over a longer period of time. It is part of\u2014and I have maintained this all the way\u2014a number of things that will lead to a step change in the New Zealand economy. I note that through the 5 years that Phil Goff was the Minister of Trade for New Zealand, our export went backwards. I am not surprised that he is advocating retrograde policies now. He cannot work out what he is for or against. The good thing is that he will not be Leader of the Opposition for much longer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252a4c35958524d9ba62d7c21c7227084\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Most of the last part of that answer was unnecessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217a38d6550c34230ad44bcb724b3fc56\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022094f5fffd6f04f1b8fbe41090f3ef645\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is getting altogether a bit messy. I acknowledged a point of order but I could not hear the point of order being made. I take it that it was not a genuine point of order, so we will not take further time on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9bb19b5b29d416f818f4675cb045762\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I understood that the Leader of the House stood to withdraw and apologise. I was not clear whether that was to the House or to his own colleagues over his handling of this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a593422214f54915a77e744de12c2741\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Darren Hughes knows that that is not a point of order. That member is normally a model of discretion when it comes to the Standing Orders of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220cbe48e928746229e2cc6ce6005b4a2\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Minister\u2019s response to criticism from the New Zealand Tourism Industry Association that his proposals have already damaged New Zealand\u2019s \u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D image, and what is his response to The Economist, which says that his proposals make New Zealand\u2019s promotion in an area like the Shanghai Expo 2010 an exercise in hypocrisy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290f91d264f87493587853f6eb02231a0\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: There are a couple of things that we should recognise. Firstly, Tourism New Zealand uses Blue Lake in Central Otago with the \u201C100% Pure New Zealand\u201D logo over the top to promote tourism. That lake is only there because of previous mining activity on the side, which is quite interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c4eece49e844d60b0d91062ef7a7977\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, no!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229479271b0f974f2db1ed8bd4484760bd\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I see. So old-fashioned mining that does all the damage can now be used to promote New Zealand tourism; that is Phil\u2019s position. Secondly, I note that Australia, Canada, and other countries around the world do not have a problem in attracting tourists, even though they promote their mining sectors very vigorously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002225fd8a2578494909ac3ae86e370a6c20\u0022\u003EBudget 2010\u2014Main Focus\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdd8226ea248409e8533af71304be56e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdd8226ea248409e8533af71304be56e\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What will be the main focus of the Budget on 20 May?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022da2c0aee9c204c878081c1825af24216\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da2c0aee9c204c878081c1825af24216\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Budget will be about the many, not the few. [Interruption] But seriously, New Zealand has come through the recession in reasonable shape, and the Budget will focus squarely on building the recovery so New Zealanders can get ahead. It will set out a credible plan to achieve faster and more sustainable economic growth after 9 years of the economy underperforming under the previous Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed95e5ce9f7f4510ada3f7728036f37d\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Budget help hard-working New Zealand families get ahead?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fb487d51738484994979115f16d2c5a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Budget will focus on two things that will help hard-working New Zealand families get ahead. There will be a reform of the tax system, so that it will be fairer and will provide the right incentives for good choices for the economy. It will also focus on getting better value for the large amount of taxpayers\u2019 money spent on public services, and that will include getting rid of ineffective programmes left over from the last Government and redirecting that spending to high-priority programmes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dea560ee7b0642f5a9f45e73106ac886\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: When the Minister said that the Budget would be about the many, not the few, did he mean the many increases in costs New Zealanders can expect, in addition to increasing taxes on all the basics, increasing the costs of university and polytech, increasing the costs of childcare, and increasing the costs of home help; and when will we get a Budget focused on creating jobs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e785e20100ee4093a0d473f7bdfcbc6e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I meant the many people who are relieved that the dreadful economic management of Labour has come to an end at just the time when New Zealand needs competent economic management to get through this recession. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a9c8e5306ae46c08605a0e6c497b881\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member was obviously indicating to me that I should have objected to the Minister\u2019s answer, but when he asked the Minister what he meant, he inserted a whole lot of statements. The Minister answered with what he meant, and the member may not have liked it particularly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e5ac967915b4340a1d5243748e39c8d\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How are early signs of economic recovery being reflected in the latest labour market trends?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6476803016b4bc5832d243f5d491e22\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: A couple of trends are evident. Firstly, it appears unemployment is approaching a peak. We are not quite sure whether it has reached it yet. Secondly, official statistics confirmed this week show that the number of hours worked by New Zealanders is picking up. Total hours worked increased by 1.1 percent in the latest March quarter. That is one of the reasons unemployment will fall only slowly. Many New Zealanders took a cut in hours in order to get through the recession, and, now the economy is picking up, they will increase their hours of work, rather than new jobs necessarily being created immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292981d6852bf48fba0b16fa2a04ac6b0\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What kinds of economic policies would threaten New Zealand\u2019s recovery and destroy jobs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299bae8ce36ef41319db514d298f29cbf\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The biggest threat to our recovery would be policies that featured a mix of soaring debt, higher taxes, and never-ending Budget deficits. That is precisely the scenario that the National Government inherited in late 2008 before the global financial crisis. It is unfortunate that those remain the policies of the Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226ca78d17611c42b5a9a3ffc0c72e280b\u0022\u003EEmployment Policies\u2014Reports on Success\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u002209597c538fe84b4f8bd1836b9b7d4494\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209597c538fe84b4f8bd1836b9b7d4494\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What advice has she received on the success of the Government\u2019s employment policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4be1b09d72a4853816b79191d9e5c6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4be1b09d72a4853816b79191d9e5c6b\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I have received a lot of advice commending us for our commitment to addressing the recession\u2019s effect on employment, particularly the employment of young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb5ebbeab95146aab5705b7e6df0dd09\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the comment that young people are being impacted very seriously by the recession; if so, how many of the 72,000 unemployed young people have been assisted by her employment package, which the Government claimed would address the impact of the recession on young people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a264e203a5b3410993e249cd2b000147\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I will take just one part of the youth jobs package. Under Job Ops and under Community Max, more than 8,000 young people have come off the unemployment benefit\u2014a very different number from the one the member bandies around. I think that is really positive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbf6d5cbc9da45ff81032928d5fa1cb0\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Has she seen the latest figures on her employment initiatives, which show that in Auckland, where there are 26,000 unemployed young people, a mere 1,800 have been helped by the package she has just talked about; on the East Coast, where there are over 5,000 unemployed young people, a mere 629 got assistance; and in Canterbury, where there are almost 10,000 young people out of work, 760 kids got some help from her package\u2014and the pattern is repeated all over New Zealand\u2014and is her enthusiasm for the package an example of her statement at the weekend that she is \u201Ca girl prone to excesses\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a9fff517967446b8ed996f13847f409\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: When it comes to getting people into jobs, then, yes, I think we are prone to excesses. We are seeing more young people in employment who would have been on an unemployment benefit if not for this Government\u2019s Job Ops package. We have more people going through straight-to-work initiatives. We have more people in industry partnerships. We have put $69.2 million extra, through just Work and Income, into helping people into jobs. I think this package is responsive and responsible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5f847180e7b4c3bb99efecd32f318c0\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: What explanation has she given to the Prime Minister as to why her employment initiatives have failed to stem the rise in youth unemployment, which is now at its highest level since June 1993, in light of his statement that he did not want to see a repeat of the impact of the recession of the early 1990s on young people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a1401b3a6f940b6ad2278323a6fdc0f\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister particularly congratulates those who work at Work and Income. When we look at all the projections for what unemployment benefit levels would be, we see that we are well beneath all of them. When we look at the projections from Treasury, from all the economists, from the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update, from everything else, we see that we are below those projections, and we are bringing down the number of unemployed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be0660594fca46e6af9d0be259e24f46\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of any feedback on the success of the Youth Opportunities package?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3a5e625a29a445d82eed42765f8395e\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The Mayors Taskforce for Jobs wrote to the Prime Minister: \u201CThe Youth Opportunities package you announced in August 2009 has been invaluable in providing opportunities for our young people and mitigating the worst effects of the recession.\u201D I even have a quote that says: \u201CI\u2019m delighted that someone is getting our younger generation motivated to contribute to our district again.\u201D That quote was from Clayton Cosgrove. He was saying that he was delighted with Community Max.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229916d409d2d745a2a7ec274b61b44ffa\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Did she toss Treasury\u2019s advice on her employment package that it would \u201Clikely have limited impact\u201D and would \u201Crepresent poor value for money\u201D into her \u201Cwho-gives-a-damn bin\u201D, the place she said she puts advice she does not agree with; if so, will she take Treasury more seriously in future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263e5c939536649f09fb7c6791d3807fc\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The quotes the member keeps referring to are from a letter to the editor. I note that she has yet to have one published, so she is quoting mine now, which is kind of cute. I can table the letter, if the member wishes. She can frame it, given that she obviously likes it so much. When it comes to Treasury advice, I am not the first Minister to disagree with it and I am sure I will not be the last. If we had taken its advice, we would not have over 8,000 young people engaged in these programmes. We have had to keep extending these programmes, quite frankly, because they are going so well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8318a628b7f4de5bb976079efd94522\u0022\u003ECatherine Delahunty\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Which Peter Saunders did she intend to appoint to advise the Welfare Working Group on welfare and employment: the Peter Saunders whose book Welfare to Work she cited in the House last week, or the Peter Saunders she actually appointed, who thinks there is a link between low class and low intelligence? Is she aware that they are actually two different people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddc31abddf16452a841ea072cc75d9e9\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I do not see how that is relevant to the actual\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295401348dd164e1e866a2fa1d237897b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the Minister. A question has been asked. If members want to hear the answer, they need to be a bit more reasonable with the noise level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229abe651f508e4d4aa31270e3f4e4c376\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I will say exactly what I said last week: some of the advice and comments from Treasury I agree with, and some I do not. I am not so narrow-minded that I will pick out only the bits I agree with; I will listen to all of them and make a decision from there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7d9c55f87d6406383579eac8fdd3eba\u0022\u003ECatherine Delahunty\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Which one did she intend to appoint?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271dfe96756a04cf58fe84e76da550cc9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s question was so long and convoluted that the Minister picked up on one piece of it, and she is entitled to do that. If the member wants a question answered seriously, it has to be short and concise, or the member gives the Minister a chance to pick up any bit of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228558e8f978304fb3a1b43d50cee087a3\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I do not like disagreeing with your ruling, but I think the question was a relatively simple question: was it the Peter Saunders who said this, or the Peter Saunders who said that? The member indicated that there were two different Peter Saunders, and the question was which one the Minister had intended to appoint. It was not complicated. Disagreeing with one of the statements, or agreeing with it, actually did not address the question, which was which of those two people she meant to appoint. It appears from what was said in the House last week that she has appointed someone she did not mean to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d752f621dba14a5a84a5c2b7ab33f999\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is now\u2014[Interruption] I do not need to have any further assistance on it. The member\u2019s kind clarification has shown that the question was barely in order because it was so far removed from advice on employment policies. Which person she might have appointed somewhere bears virtually no relationship to the primary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f623c0504dfc4263ba955bd0387e897b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1c44bf131b64ae381afeeb5076dc65e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have dealt with the matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022664443ce60d54f0ca918e0c07c28e146\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think the point you may have missed, because it was about employment matters, was the purpose of Ms Bennett\u2019s appointment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e724274f04443719e11a7866294a435\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The primary question asked the Minister what advice she had received. The supplementary question from Catherine Delahunty asked her which person she had appointed to something; it was totally irrelevant to the primary question. I was being kind in not ruling it out, and to expect me then to insist on the Minister answering a particular aspect of it is not reasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be218ef47cc34a82989432fe204186df\u0022\u003EHon Sir Roger Douglas\u003C/span\u003E: How can she justify telling a young person offered a job as a trainee landscaper with a productive value of $400 a week that the young person is not allowed by law to take that job, and must instead go on a benefit of just $160 a week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bba6dc67cde04969b71a70407a07fba3\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure that I have never told a young person that he or she is not to take a job and, instead, is to go on the benefit. I am not sure what the member is referring to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de3d35126d7b46c5878047b3eeae61c4\u0022\u003EHon Sir Roger Douglas\u003C/span\u003E: It is very clear that there is a minimum wage of $510\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e29767b33f634e62ac0c1fd343a8fe7b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I beg the member\u2019s pardon. Is this a point of order or is it a supplementary question? It has to be one or the other. He is an experienced member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d71368d9321843b9a9229029aba94da1\u0022\u003EHon Sir Roger Douglas\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is very clear what the question was about. Someone was offered a job at $400 a week. The Minister for Social Development and Employment would clearly know that the minimum wage is $510 a week, and that is why, by law, this young person could not take the job. I was asking the Minister how she could justify that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bf30596a5cd4456b7d72e9aec1ed996\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the member, because his party has a limited number of supplementary questions, to reword his question to make it consistent with the primary question. The primary question asked the Minister what advice she had received on the success of Government employment policies. I invite the member to rephrase his question to make it in order and consistent with the primary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250e94b8e80374f4f88e02dc0ec19b724\u0022\u003EHon Sir Roger Douglas\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not obvious to the Minister that she would have more success in terms of unemployment numbers if she allowed a young person to take up the offer of a job paying $400, and did not insist that, instead of that person taking up that job paying $400, he or she had to go on the unemployment benefit because of the minimum wage rules that she operates under?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022378da4a6cf05492e920aabcabd492154\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022433a3804895e4629a9870d8b78ae9dee\u0022\u003ECatherine Delahunty\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table two documents. The first relates to the biography of Professor Peter Saunders and it is from the University of New South Wales website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022110aa3533aee4e398f972d466df71842\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279340de5f4fa4ea0aaccc3afe00a9b14\u0022\u003ECatherine Delahunty\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table another document. It relates to the biography of Professor Peter Saunders from the Centre for Independent Studies, and it is from the Welfare Working Group website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240ca7a734e5a47f2b9dfce6c03d77e92\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table the document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0d2f58392344a7187cca3dc873a1256\u0022\u003EHon Sir Roger Douglas\u003C/span\u003E: What is more important to her: young people getting jobs, or pandering to the left? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220471b84cdfcb47998161ac4e142ca042\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am on my feet. There were transgressions from all around the House, so I cannot do much about them. I say to the Hon Sir Roger Douglas, who has been in the House longer than I have, that the question must relate to the primary question. The primary question was very clear. It asked \u201CWhat advice \u2026\u201D. The member managed in his previous supplementary question to focus on the success of the Government\u2019s employment policies. I invite him again\u2014because his party has only a limited number of supplementary questions\u2014to reword his question to make it in order and consistent with the primary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c620e756f15b4042bb283aa42a625190\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I find your ruling a bit perplexing and I draw your attention to what the primary question exactly is. The question states: \u201CWhat advice has she received on the success of the Government\u2019s employment policies?\u201D. The ACT Party was assuming that the success of the Government\u2019s employment policies was measured in people getting jobs, which is exactly what Sir Roger Douglas was talking about. It is the success of the employment policies that we are discussing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262bcc096ad1642e2825b0e1fd5c3063b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is not difficult to phrase a question that seeks the information the member wants but is more consistent with the primary question. I invite the Hon Sir Roger Douglas to do that, if he wishes. He does not wish to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227791f41693684d8fb4a68fb75cf838d9\u0022\u003EGenetic Engineering, AgResearch\u2014Names of Members of AnimalEthics Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022 data-id=\u002283c51c8776094c76b49aedfcac9f4138\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283c51c8776094c76b49aedfcac9f4138\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Agriculture: What are the names of the members of the animal ethics committee that approved the experiment at AgResearch\u2019s Ruakura facility in 2009, which resulted in genetically engineered calves carrying human genetic code whose ovaries grew so large that they ruptured and killed the animals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u0022391bf216be4d4c1a98ec564c0ada07ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022391bf216be4d4c1a98ec564c0ada07ca\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP (Minister of Defence)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Agriculture: The Minister will not name the individuals on any animal ethics committee, as to do so could potentially put the individuals and their families and property at risk. Members of animal ethics committees must include senior members of the organisation, in this case AgResearch; an independent veterinarian; an SPCA representative; and a person nominated by the local territorial authority. The Minister does not want to deter individuals with an interest in expertise and animal ethics from putting their names forward in this important role.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e84f122c06954c06bbdff9a7f17049c5\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Why should it be left to one committee, whose membership is secret and which meets in secret, to decide on the significant animal welfare and ethical issues involved in creating genetically engineered animals with human genetic material in them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022371a2ee347914374ae973f504a4c7a19\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: I just want to restate the actual membership of this committee, to indicate its balance. First, it has a member of the organisation itself, a senior member. Second, it has an independent veterinarian. Third, it has a member of the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals; and, fourth, a person nominated by the local territorial authority. It is worth noting that the question is about animal ethics, and I would have thought that the membership of the committee accurately reflects the member\u2019s concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022812c1f9a3e9a4f80b038093f41ef2318\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree the public has a right to be consulted about the ethical and animal welfare implications of inserting human genetic material into animals and fundamentally altering their nature and properties?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ae248adc85d4723880004e7c4406ef9\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: In effect, this is all dealt with by the Environmental Risk Management Authority, which has a process involved in it, and it is very extensive, as the member knows. So it is not the ethics committee itself that deals with the original application; it is actually the Environmental Risk Management Authority that deals with the original application, which gets to the point that I think the member is raising. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a162b65f5d6403aa237fc7f9fa598a4\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked a very carefully phrased and very specific question\u2014whether he agrees the public has a right to be consulted about these issues, yes or no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdde663956074a169bb70c386d2751aa\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the Minister to reply a little more. I am sure the Minister can answer that question; I invite him to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226156a6a4857c4315a5a82772546e343d\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: The specific reason I mentioned that the Environmental Risk Management Authority processed it is that that is an extensive process. In respect of the precise methodology as to how the authority conducts its inquiries, I am not entirely clear whether it has a public component but my recollection is that it does. I would need to verify that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bf7d21a1feb47a495f451b984e3d441\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Environmental Risk Management Authority does not consider ethical and animal welfare issues, who is responsible for ensuring there is a public debate about the ethical and animal welfare implications of genetically engineered cross-species animals, now that the organisation previously responsible for this work\u2014namely, the Bioethics Council\u2014was axed by the Key Government, in March last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ddee7fa192c46e7a5e45ec65209dc74\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: Can I note at this point that the Minister of Agriculture, when he became aware that the calves had died, immediately sought advice from the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries on the animal welfare implications. He was satisfied that the advice from the ministry was that the National Animal Ethics Advisory Committee had acted properly and in accordance with the Animal Welfare Act 1999. So it was considered that the advisory committee did properly deal with the issues raised by the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022697682d29fd345d88528022296d8ef16\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Again it was a very simple, straightforward question: who is responsible for ensuring there is a public debate, now that the Bioethics Council has been disbanded. The Minister was obviously reading some answer to a question but I think it was the wrong question that he was seeking to answer, and I respectfully ask whether he could answer my question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e4e5cec91af48e1a71486e10d2645fb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the Minister, having heard the member\u2019s question again, whether he could answer a little more precisely to what the member is asking him\u2014I realise it is not easy for a member answering on behalf of a Minister\u2014if he has the information. He may not have the information; one has to be reasonable on these matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022788b0543a54844f49070d3bd5f7a6d5e\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: I in my capacity as Minister of Research, Science and Technology will be seeking a report on the results of this particular programme\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd96412906eb4d67858bcaf2ca85d1f9\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister is answering on behalf of another Minister. He is not the Acting Minister; I do not believe that the Minister is out of the country. He is not answering in his own stead as the Acting Minister of Agriculture; he is answering on behalf, so he cannot start giving an answer about what he is doing in another portfolio. Interesting though that might be, it is not in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9b104c57b2b42cc945b6b212b61e855\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s point is perfectly sound. The Minister should be answering on behalf of the Minister of Agriculture. It may be that the Minister does not have the necessary information but he should try to answer the member\u2019s reasonable question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c5fbd67041a47af803f828d92b7aca2\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister of Agriculture has been advised by the Minister of Research, Science and Technology that a report will be sought from Sir Peter Gluckman, the Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Adviser, who is an acknowledged expert on growth and development and these issues. I believe that that report will deal with some of the concerns being raised by the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a98f75f32e1f41d982bebfbd47bd76a2\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Please, I seek your protection on this issue. I asked who\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227a14305bd2540d7b06f8a8086b29e15\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members know that points of order should be heard in silence, even if they do not like them. However, I say to the honourable member that, in fairness, as Speaker I have asked the Minister on two occasions to give a more precise answer; I do not believe I can do more. I think the member needs to go on to her next supplementary question, because quite clearly the Minister does not have the information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022950b7d90f398400e8b0fdda16fb1159c\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked who is responsible for ensuring a public debate, now the Bioethics Council has been disbanded. That is an incredibly simple question. Is the answer \u201Cnobody\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8e0845f94b444e396a968057d380f1c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member must not get into debating the issue. I have asked the Minister, on two occasions now, to give a more precise answer to the member\u2019s question; I do not believe we can take up more time of the House. Clearly the Minister does not have the information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285df2fc005894ecda8a0c123cf4e1191\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5aac97716b843d78bbe71fb57df4c4b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c42799efc5b47cf8ed64b10ddb3753f\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: Adding to the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e1bf91cda48445f98bb65feb5a458b5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2014[Interruption] I am on my feet. I ask the Hon Shane Jones for a little decorum, please. I am getting a little frustrated here. I have asked the Minister on two occasions, when the member has repeated what information she was seeking in a reasonable question, to provide the information. Is the Minister, after refusing on two occasions to do that, now telling us he has the information and wishes to answer the question? Is that what the Minister is trying to say? I invite him to do that if he has that information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be080e9fd374435380b7f31eff09d1bf\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: I was going to add to my answer in a way that I believe would assist the member\u2019s question. It is obviously possible for the member to make submissions to Sir Peter Gluckman. That is the way these kinds of issues can be debated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022529266a914b8444ea259a51a2c6d55cf\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: What action is the Government taking in respect of this research?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022115e7056b2104a1a91627e770c526175\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: As I have indicated, the Minister of Agriculture has been informed by the Minister of Research, Science and Technology that Sir Peter Gluckman\u2014the Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Adviser, who is an acknowledged expert on these issues\u2014is to make a report. Indeed, I am sure the member will make submissions to Sir Peter on this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274175ad49ed142b68a9e6a61384b2c8b\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that the experiment went horribly wrong, and can he guarantee that no further trials of this nature will be carried out in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c74b641b0af448f6945fe6f4c23a0ab4\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister certainly does understand that the experiment went wrong, which is precisely why he sought a report from the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry when the issue came up, as did the Minister of Research, Science and Technology from the Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Adviser. On the second point the member raised, obviously the Minister of Research, Science and Technology will have raised those issues directly with the chair of AgResearch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e0c4f364b9f412ab9a3a218babf7149\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that the deformities in the calves were quite horrific, and that most New Zealanders would be shocked at what has been going on behind closed doors at the Ruakura Research Centre?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223131574770ac438690ee0873b135599e\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: In relation to the second point, these activities do not go behind closed doors, as such; the fact that it was occurring was public. I agree that New Zealanders would have found this horrific and very perturbing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022677e3789146d4ebf8a24c3d7c3595b22\u0022\u003EWage Growth\u2014Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022efb5294b824f4fb7a58ec2ad6f0fa32c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efb5294b824f4fb7a58ec2ad6f0fa32c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports, if any, has he received on recent wage growth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022399911c565af45e09a6a8795ed50191f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022399911c565af45e09a6a8795ed50191f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E This week I have seen two reports. The quarterly employment survey showed that the total weekly paid hours worked increased by 1.1 percent in the March quarter. This follows the recession that started in early 2008, which forced many businesses to reduce staff working hours. That trend is now starting to reverse. Secondly, the Labour Cost Index shows that public wage and salary rates increased by 2.3 percent in March quarter, which is nearly double the 1.3 percent increase in the private sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1265213011a4a42a1fad13d375de255\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: When unemployment is at a 16-year high and wage growth is at its lowest in almost 9 years, why is Budget 2010 focused on increasing GST and pushing up the cost of living for hard-working Kiwi families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d8bf5843d284dc79b8d337cbe51322d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Budget 2010 is following on from Budget 2009 in dealing with two things: first, the recession that started in New Zealand in 2008, under the previous Labour Government, before the global crisis; and, second, the very poor performance of this economy from about 2004 onwards, when it grew at less than 1 percent per year through what were meant to be the best economic conditions in a generation. So we have to undo the damage of the squandered opportunities under that Government, and deal with the global recession.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3831ee3a9bf4a27b289c45dd15b4b53\u0022\u003EAmy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: What was the impact on average household incomes of New Zealand\u2019s economic performance between 2005 and 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228decce2720e547f292aa6d7a6626fc3e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: In the 3 years from September 2005 to September 2008 GDP grew on average by less than 1 percent per year. However, that figure was outstripped by annual population growth of 1.1 percent, meaning that the per capita growth in incomes during the last 3 years of the previous Government was actually negative when the rest of the world was booming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2b8d840d7ae4f23b831a7a3de1ec1a6\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: What other job opportunities are open to young, unemployed New Zealanders when the only job scheme the Government has announced\u2014the cycleway\u2014has failed to create any jobs, as predicted by Treasury; and is that what this Government means by back-pedalling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f72d83f3e6f149c1a7be163f3753afaf\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Labour finance spokesperson job might be available to them, as well\u2014even for younger ones. The fact is that jobs are being created every week. Several thousand people a week are going off the unemployment benefit as the economy starts to recover. Budget 2010 will help to create the conditions where business has the confidence to invest and employ, because until or unless business makes that decision, there will not be a reduction in unemployment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222319db7815b846788c5795cb49325d24\u0022\u003EAmy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: How have incomes for New Zealanders on New Zealand superannuation, which are linked to average take-home wages, been affected by recent Government policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225db20945dc98428d977ee0f605efc5c0\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Since 1 October 2008 a combination of tax cuts\u2014initially, tax cuts put in place by the previous Labour Government, and then further tax cuts by this Government\u2014has meant that New Zealand superannuation payments have increased significantly. For instance, the single rate for a person living alone has gone from $571 a fortnight to $636 a fortnight\u2014an increase of nearly $65 in the hand per fortnight. For married couples, the increase per fortnight has been up to about $100 in the hand, or more than 11 percent, since 1 October 2008. We believe that policies that continue with adjustments in the tax system and promote economic growth will mean that New Zealand superannuation payments can continue to increase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224798948993034cd78e6b1a8bf598f755\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister reconcile his comment in the taxpayer-funded promo Plain English that \u201CWe can beat those Aussies!\u201D, when New Zealand\u2019s average wage has stalled at $959 and the Australian wage has raced ahead to $1,580?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f52067bb9b645658f63542ebcf523ad\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, it will take us some time to undo the damage done by 9 years of misdirected economic policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1d2d38d08be4e23aca2ac6ebcc476df\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. We traversed yesterday the boundary between a factual history of things that he is responsible for, actions under the previous Government, and his description of the policies of another party, which you ruled to be out of order yesterday. You gave him, I guess, wiggle room in that a passing reference might be allowed, but he started his response by talking about the Labour Party, and it does not appear there is any way out on this occasion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1b99884237640fbb78371b2f4fcc471\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I think that reflection on the question will give a perfectly good reason as to why Mr English was perfectly free to start his answer in the way in which he did. The member over there referred to a taxpayer-funded television programme, about which Mr English had made a particular promotional point. At that point the member asked him \u201CHow does he reconcile\u201D and then compared wage rates in Australia with those in New Zealand. If we analyse it right down, there was no clear question whatsoever. If, in fact, \u201CHow does he analyse\u201D or \u201CHow does he reconcile\u201D was the question, then Mr English was quite free to reply in the way in which he did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256e01a3c53be4ba48c10235bb839c419\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have heard quite sufficient. I have to agree with the Hon Gerry Brownlee. If the member wants Ministers to not deviate from absolutely straight answers, the member has to discipline himself by not putting elaborate constructions into his questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002258b5f586f1d5445d88bf18b4aa959931\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014Minister\u2019s Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u0022610f559fde25425a9943e3b099e5a55e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022610f559fde25425a9943e3b099e5a55e\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by all of his recent statements on health services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022fccc40cdee3c4c63ae849572db04473f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fccc40cdee3c4c63ae849572db04473f\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, including the statement that Waitemata District Health Board is improving front-line services for patients in its area. For example, last year an extra 1,045 patients received elective surgery compared with 2008, which is an increase of 8 percent, and almost 2,000 extra patients received an appointment to see a surgical specialist, which is an increase of 10 percent. We are certainly delivering more for people in that area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206f84165b2ba4b51a920f2c1eccac83a\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: What further reports has he received of improved front-line services being delivered at Waitemata District Health Board?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b06caf9292174693823ee97c92da1bfb\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I can advise the House that the $1.7 million refurbishment of Waitakere Hospital\u2019s emergency care centre is now under way, which will bring full 24/7 emergency care services a step closer for the 220,000 people of west Auckland. When Minister and local MP Paula Bennett and I visited the hospital recently, we saw the site of an expansion in the number of paediatric beds at that hospital, and I can advise that, this weekend, work will start on providing an additional seven short-stay paediatric beds at the hospital. By way of example, over the whole district health board, general surgery is up by 10 percent, and ear, nose, and throat surgery is up by 14 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022402ef1243de44e849bc7c3bf799b391b\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: How will his statements help the people of Tararua, who are facing big health cuts, and where a cancer support worker is reported as saying: \u201CThis is just the start. Already we\u2019re facing more calls for our services as funding cuts hit our area.\u201D, and where health professionals say that the cuts to rehabilitation services and the axing of night coverage by the district nursing service will put even more strain on families, on carers, and on volunteers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab27cc00b66940b6a9131a64128c765e\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: With respect to the night services being discussed by the member, there will be alternative services available for the people there. The people of the MidCentral District Health Board have had additional funding\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b9993a3be48446a9d4bad73f44f5268\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Like what?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022737c0139a6294dccbaa1f2bdec254b56\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Like what? Like the $300,000 extra given to the local hospice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb29729633034ec6abcc9becd5ae6ab1\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: What other services are being improved at Waitemata District Health Board?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253eaa31faa194cd2a995698aff748af8\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that a new renal service is being put in place at Waitemata District Health Board. Presently, around 220 patients are on dialysis, and they are treated in central Auckland, meaning that Waitemata District Health Board patients must travel long distances three or four times a week for 4 to 6-hour dialysis sessions. The new service, which is to start next year, will see existing patients transferred to Waitemata District Health Board and all new patients treated locally. At North Shore Hospital, a new medical ward will open next month, and a new chronic pain service will be starting very shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022968770e674244d2796ab3734117c0db6\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he continue his parallel reality in which there are no cuts, when, every day, I am alerted to new health cuts around New Zealand, which will get\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ec5927b8245421fa8c7b253d06bd156\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the member. Forgive me, but I just cannot hear the member\u2019s question. The House has been particularly noisy today. I do not mind noise where opinions are very strongly held, but the member is just asking a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ba528c99c7e4d8b8b04f1ab5d089894\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he continue his parallel reality in which there are no cuts, when, every day, I am alerted to new health cuts from around New Zealand, which will get even worse when his much-lauded $536 million of new money will be dramatically reduced in the 2010 Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b821abe4d9848b5be2b0630320885f5\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: This Government can show that we are delivering more front-line services for New Zealand than the previous Government was ever able to do. We have certainly seen today that the Waitemata District Health Board is providing many more services for the people in that community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022772b017a970844ecad0b854c803c9050\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Midlands region newsletter of the New Zealand Nurses Organisation from the last quarter of last year, which quotes David Bennett and Tim Macindoe stating that New Zealand is now a Second World country, and that, as such, we can expect only Second World care\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216215d26cd7d47fca25d541b70c9ef5a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? [Interruption] Members know that when a point of order is being considered, they must be silent. I ask how I am meant to hear whether there is any objection to the leave being sought when there is so much noise. If members make that kind of interjection, then I may draw the wrong conclusion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003ELeave is sought for that document to be tabled. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225ec3383dd86842a080be4e095f1bcb0d\u0022\u003EEducation, National Standards\u2014Minister\u2019s Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022f56c3bf304af4a4982cedaad5a0eab96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f56c3bf304af4a4982cedaad5a0eab96\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does she stand by her statement in regard to national standards that \u201CThere will be no concessions, there will be no trial period.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4b5a463ffd44e79a85934307fe98cd9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4b5a463ffd44e79a85934307fe98cd9\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and I also stand by the next part of that quote: \u201CParents want National Standards and they are going to get them from next year. There will be constant evaluation, the tenders are just being let, and if adjustments need to be made, then that will happen.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c903d3611aa649f7ab15527b1af9de7d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the statement that \u201Cthe trials are an important step that allow standards and internal assessment resources to be road-tested with actual students before being implemented\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3b0ede891254e33999958866c5c2116\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: From memory, that quote comes from the New Zealand Council for Educational Research\u2019s submission as part of the consultation on national standards last year. It made three main points. Two of them we totally agreed with. In fact, the council agreed totally with the national standards and the way in which they are being implemented, and it was very complimentary. The third point related to the timing of the implementation. Its recommendation was that we have a national road test for 12 months. As I say, that was one submission; 11,000 submissions were made during the consultation period. I think that our agreement on two areas out of three was not bad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228274403cda8d47dc82a14f31a58d11cc\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Minister aware that the statement I just quoted came not from the New Zealand Council for Educational Research but from last week\u2019s edition of her Education Gazette on how to develop quality standards?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee2564aff4734a83a170c8f35eb87d52\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: As I stated in my previous answer, from recollection that quote was indeed part of the New Zealand Council for Educational Research\u2019s submission during the consultation period last year. That was its recommendation. I am on record as saying that we are happy to have this year with the standards as a bedding-in year. I think that whether one describes it as a bedding-in year or a road test, they are pretty close. I think that it is very good to have a research organisation like the New Zealand Council for Educational Research onside with national standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a93e0d9950964a4ba8a672f03d937813\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government not have a trial period for national standards?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eea9d4ce924e4bb89304b39b8463114b\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: This Government was elected with a very clear mandate from parents to introduce national standards to ensure that their children were being assessed against nationally consistent benchmarks and to ensure that parents received reports in plain language about their child\u2019s progress. I have seen all sorts of suggestions for trials\u2014for example, one suggestion would involve a 5-year trial of the standards. I can put it no better than one parent, who attended one of the national standards meetings around the country, who said: \u201CWhy should my children have to wait any longer?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d050af526794edeb1ae37c3cec3e5cb\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Why does her Ministry of Education, under her direction, consider it vital to trial minor changes to the National Certificate of Education Achievement (NCEA) but not vital to trial national standards?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d8af8fd65144c29951ecacc203d6964\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: There is such a difference between NCEA and national standards. NCEA has been in schools since early in the 2000s, and there are very high stakes for students because it represents national qualifications. In NCEA we have a consistent process of improvement. That is exactly what I have said will be in place for national standards. We will constantly improve them, because they are not about systems; they are about kids and their educational success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222202f51c94b642728a65522af0385b2b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it vital to trial minor changes to NCEA but not vital to trial her new national standards?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e16fca378bf49be937dbb60531f0d64\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have just answered that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214fbde7eee3041f08ed968cfc474364f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member feels that his question was not answered to his satisfaction, he is entitled to use a further supplementary question to ask the same question again. I guess that if the Minister says that she has answered the question, then that is a reasonable answer. Members can make their judgments about the adequacy of the previous answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fa10bdcb54d049909a22c1ffee5d1c18\u0022\u003EStudent Loans\u2014Changes to Administration Fees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022 data-id=\u0022b66a7d166ab24bb3aaa795e4012f08f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b66a7d166ab24bb3aaa795e4012f08f0\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014T\u0101maki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Tertiary Education: What changes is the Government considering to make administration of the student loan scheme more cost effective?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u00222fc6c660a71b4ec687fa913dd20606a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fc6c660a71b4ec687fa913dd20606a0\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Tertiary Education):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is looking to recover more of the $40 million per year it costs to administer the student loan scheme. Currently, only $10 million is recovered from students through the $50 charge per year, which takes place while a loan is being drawn down. That charge has not been changed since 1992. Once borrowers leave tertiary education, they do not pay any of the administration costs of the scheme, at all. It is only fair that borrowers who receive the benefit of interest-free loans cover more of the actual costs of loan administration, so more people have the opportunity to participate in tertiary education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f842d71b119495ca2ced110a2edf1f7\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: What would this extra money be used for?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247a490a58c6c44a4aeb3a21cd3146d48\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Money currently spent on subsidising student loan administration costs could be freed up to invest back into more places at tertiary institutions. This year we are funding a record number of student places in New Zealand tertiary institutions, but this is currently projected to decline next year, partly as a result of the previous Government\u2019s projection for student numbers to fall as a result of the global economic recession. Final decisions will be detailed in the Budget later this month.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227254437d4f154b588de77ff7ed0ed49d\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: How does he reconcile the addition of a $50 fee on any person with a student loan with last year\u2019s Government legislation offering a 10 percent bonus on any additional loan repayment of $500 or more\u2014which is about $50 in my maths\u2014or is the Government seeking to recover the cost of its own legislation by giving with one hand and taking away with the other?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd36f509b17f4c2fb14981aeca4ec7bb\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I think that 10 percent of a student loan repayment could be any amount of money; it depends on who pays it back. I think it is entirely fair, though, that the administration\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a39e27956864d9e8df5724d11925976\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014the bonus legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc0aca2cbf744074a8746385df40027f\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the bonus is 10 percent of the overpayment\u2014that is what it is. I think it is quite fair for administration costs of the scheme to be met by those who participate in it. I think it is entirely fair. There will still be the bonus for early repayment, which they will receive on top of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002243e47dce451c4d92bf03f41ed4756073\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations (Statutory Minimum Redundancy Entitlements) Amendment Bill\u2014Government Support\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022aee2ad6ff15f48dcb243405895719dda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aee2ad6ff15f48dcb243405895719dda\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: Will the Government support the Employment Relations (Statutory Minimum Redundancy Entitlements) Amendment Bill to select committee so that New Zealand workers and business can have their say on the adequacy of current redundancy laws?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3560980f21749e4971ffb4ebe0e02f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3560980f21749e4971ffb4ebe0e02f0\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227228b4b710f420e86fd07d16f8ffdcb\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: What then does she have to say to warehouse supervisor Rod Highsted, who is one of about a dozen workers at TA Macalister laid off this week without any redundancy payment after 20 years\u2019 service?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c567b573ed494e5ba247deac64dcea7b\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: For anybody who loses his or her job, it can be a very upsetting experience. I certainly sympathise with them. That is why our Government has made sure we are taking every step we can to get the economy growing again and help laid-off workers into new jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264e2fc37474e4c41b6a0f3cca6c414f4\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: What does she have to say to Annie, an information technology worker who emailed me this week, who was made redundant just before Christmas without redundancy pay and who has lost her house, all of her savings, and practically all of her furniture because she had nothing to tide her over while she looked for another job?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a39e1810c42b40c5aa811586859401fd\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I repeat what I said in my previous answer, but redundancies are never nice. People are losing jobs, small-business owners are losing their livelihood and often their homes, and adding more rules and regulations to this does not make it any fairer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d4d985db7c8435f9eb96f563fa2d7b9\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: What does she have to say to Telecom engineers such as Jonathan Smith who were made redundant through no fault of their own in the middle of one of New Zealand\u2019s highest periods of unemployment, with no redundancy pay to help them get through the hard times until they found more work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e08e6ce975e0482cb1313ce058a28013\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I reiterate what I said in the previous two responses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225919b761d1d7457b94572400f6402a45\u0022\u003ESchool Trustee Elections 2010\u2014Closing Date for Voting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb97aee626804cd0bfa949c440dc952d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb97aee626804cd0bfa949c440dc952d\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (National\u2014Rangitata)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: When is the last day for parents to vote in the 2010 school trustee elections?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002241159cbe16be4cfcb224a6c271e29e6f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241159cbe16be4cfcb224a6c271e29e6f\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E For the vast majority of schools, voting in the 2010 school trustee elections closes at noon this Friday, 7 May. Parents at schools with more nominations than positions should have their voting forms and I encourage them to vote in these elections for the parent representatives who will govern their children\u2019s school for the next 3 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022197caddd3b874ab4a548f11592cc3749\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has she received on the number of schools with too few nominations in the 2010 school trustee elections?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ae50a219e5242578b15286f89628ae4\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am delighted to say that reports I have received state that across the country only three schools have had insufficient parent representative nominations. That compares very favourably with the 2007 elections, which saw five schools with insufficient nominations. Commissioners will be put in place on a temporary basis for those schools until a new election process can take place. This strong nomination turnout shows that parents are interested in taking part in the governance of their local schools, and I am particularly pleased that parents have ignored the calls of Mr Mallard to think twice before they consider standing for boards of trustees. It shows that parents are paying as much attention to the Labour Party on this one\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b705974e871f4159a3eff15e685411d6\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Ordinarily we would appreciate full and long answers from the Minister, but for this question, which is an informational one, the answer is now turning into a speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263da2469265244d6879c23420edfacac\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think that was a fair point. Indeed, I think we have had enough of it\u2014[Interruption] Could members make sure they rise and call? Today the noise level in the House means either I need to get my ears tested or the noise level is too high. It is very difficult to hear. Members need to get to their feet reasonably promptly or I cannot pick them up. I apologise to Rahui Katene, who has a supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d780c3b6e0ff4ec4b0dcf004e5337e51\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I apologise to the member. The comment you just made about the noise levels in the House is pretty relevant. Sometimes members miss an opportunity to take a call. We have had a little bit of that lately; indeed, I think it is largely due to the sound system, which is still not working well in this House. It is unfortunate that we keep getting reports to us stating that it is the best thing since sliced bread and that there has been a significant amount of money spent on it, but it continues to be something that is very, very difficult for members to work with. I have been approached by members of our own backbench who even on a quiet day find it difficult to hear members at the front of the Chamber speaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dd3ec2647a14772adbec94acde2357c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is an important issue. I will hear the Hon Peter Dunne, but I do not want to spend too much time on it. I am acutely aware of what the Leader of the House has just said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b77e7b274404eeea21bee88940fae0f\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: I endorse Mr Brownlee\u2019s comments. I think that although today there has been a higher level of noise than usual\u2014in this corner of the House, anyway\u2014the problem is that the noise comes through at a constant level. When we get someone with a louder voice than usual\u2014for instance, when Mr Brownlee was answering questions previously\u2014we might expect it to carry. What is often carried down to this end of the Chamber is the constant hubbub, and we cannot hear the individual speaker over that hubbub. I have had difficulty hearing you and members on that side of the House at times today. When we had the system that was individualised to the seats, the individual sound of a voice came through. When we went for these stalactites, or whatever they are called upstairs, we lost that. I think the consequence has been that it is harder for people to hear and this has contributed to a general level of disorder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d141a8e623b34ce7bc992f5c3b0165a4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think that both members make very good points. I am acutely aware that members in the back rows of the House cannot hear even in good times. I assure members that I will pursue this matter again. Members will recollect that I sought approval at one stage to enable technicians to come into the House during question time so they could hear what was going on. Again, I will seek the indulgence of the House for that because we must solve this problem. I am struggling to hear and members at the back of the House cannot hear. This is a very serious problem. The point the Hon Peter Dunne just made is true; it leads to disorder. When members cannot hear what is going on, there tends to be more noise and difficulty all around. I promise members I will pursue it again, because it is not good enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224760af4adbe0479092bba56c189dd5aa\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: What strategies are being employed to ensure that boards of trustees are representative of their communities, including the representation of mana whenua?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de39b569b6124915bff1d3234855d270\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Boards of trustees are self-governing entities, and there are no specific initiatives to encourage the representation of mana whenua. When voting, school communities will no doubt look to put in place governance that is in the best interests of the school. That may very well include people with links to local iwi. The Education Act 1989 allows boards of trustees to co-opt members. The Act requires that in doing so, they take into account the ethnic diversity of the school population and the character of their community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b1f7397df8364bae9248eeeb6920a99e\u0022\u003EResearch and Development\u2014Tax Credits or Equivalent Incentive\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022a057997908f445dc8dbb4566430cd017\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a057997908f445dc8dbb4566430cd017\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Labour\u2014Mt Albert)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Research, Science and Technology: Is the Government reconsidering the question of tax credits or an equivalent incentive for research and development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u002239fd832a89004e3db3da1bc1b8da83b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239fd832a89004e3db3da1bc1b8da83b2\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP (Minister of Research, Science and Technology):\u003C/span\u003E The Prime Minister said in his statement to Parliament on 9 February that science and innovation and how they underpin business opportunities are so important for this Government that \u201Cwe have made science and innovation a priority for new spending in this year\u2019s Budget, and we are focused on boosting business research and science capability.\u201D The member will have to wait for Budget announcements for the actual decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229678a716e2654e74841839e2c340d0fd\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Advisor, Professor Gluckman, who said at a select committee today that we need a significant shift in private-sector research and development spending; if so, what actions has he taken to achieve that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec837a2723aa4741ae0872f8744c5df9\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is widely agreed that business does need to invest more in business innovation. As I said, there are Budget announcements ahead that will deal with some of these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b2d7a58d9364cd1b6d500b750c35bde\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: What initiatives has the Government undertaken to support science and innovation since the 2009 Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0a82527e20145adbf687ab4b99fcbab\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has done a number of things. Firstly, the Government appointed Professor Sir Peter Gluckman as the Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Advisor. Secondly, it realigned the funding system with its economic growth priorities. Thirdly, it has implemented the recommendations of the Crown Research Institute Taskforce, which was very well received. Fourthly, it is merging the Ministry of Research, Science and Technology and the foundation into a new agency to administer science policy and funding. Fifthly, it has established the Prime Minister\u2019s Science Prizes. And there is more to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f16ada08a924a839133b81a4080883c\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Does he share the concerns of Dr Andrew West, the chief executive officer of AgResearch, who said: \u201CThere\u2019s been a lot of talk about extra money in last few years but there\u2019s been no serious allocation from the Primary Growth Partnership.\u201D, and said, following the recent loss of 36 AgResearch jobs, that \u201CJobs will also go in dairy foods, food safety, parasitology, reproductive biology \u201D, and I could go on; and how does he justify these delays in the Primary Growth Partnership?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd65e71bd95b460180c08262b49f18d1\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: Decisions will be made in relation to the Primary Growth Partnership. Of course, it is the responsibility of the Minister of Agriculture. In relation to the Ministry of Research, Science and Technology, the recommendations of the Crown Research Institute Taskforce deal with quite a number of the issues that the member has raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239403ef8eb934af988680a9dbaaf60bd\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: How much money have the various Crown research institutes received so far from the Primary Growth Partnership?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e775473e3bf4f0bab223a0cbc6521d6\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: I will have to provide a precise answer to that. But the application process is really only just in train at the moment, because the applications have to be considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f8a20d08a6dc451da427131a0c5d37c4\u0022\u003EToi Moko / Tattooed and Mummified M\u0101ori Heads\u2014Repatriation from Museums\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022 data-id=\u00220b7ae86097f04a21a44e2384541b5db5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b7ae86097f04a21a44e2384541b5db5\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage: What recent progress has been made in efforts to secure the repatriation of toi moko from museums around the world?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u002235f6232921f448c6af506a7fec715403\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235f6232921f448c6af506a7fec715403\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage):\u003C/span\u003E Earlier this morning, the Upper House of the French Parliament passed legislation enabling toi moko held in French institutions to be returned to New Zealand. That opens the door for Te Papa to approach museums in France and negotiate repatriation with them, with the ultimate objective of returning the toi moko to their communities. I express the Government\u2019s gratitude to the French Government and to Minister Fr\u00E9d\u00E9ric Mitterand, to whom the Hon Dr Sharples and I wrote last year on this issue, and to the French Parliament for passing this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d7b21149e99450cb546188d0245ceb3\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: How many toi moko are estimated to be held in French museums?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c68710e8978f455eab86c11f174c0b26\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Estimates range from between 12 and 20. There are a number of museums, as well as the Universit\u00E9 Montpellier, that have been identified as being likely to have toi moko in their collections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266c710616dbe4cada97fae843149c8df\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: How will iwi be actively involved in the negotiations and return of moko m\u014Dkai to their tribal rohe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229750a428b36e4b75b7a999f6b9922e66\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Te Papa will be holding them only on an interim basis. They are not accessioned as part of Te Papa\u2019s collections. The museum has a policy prohibiting their exhibition. The goal of repatriation is to return the k\u014Diwi to their communities of origin. Where it is possible to establish this, they remain in Te Papa\u2019s custody pending return to their attributed place of origin. Discussions with iwi to this effect are ongoing as the repatriation of remains occurs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022114dc22813ab4c09b409f3ca72aa67cb\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022461f51abb24c462fbd4c6b501a67f9b6\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00224c13f5921e414c6a89391385ee366805\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c13f5921e414c6a89391385ee366805\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. Kiwis do not ask for a lot, but they expect two things from a Government. They expect the opportunity to find employment and they expect to have a living wage so that at the end of the week their bills do not exceed the income that they earn. I have to say that on both of those fundamentals, Kiwi workers have gone backwards, not forwards, over the last year under this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI went back and checked what our Prime Minister and our Minister of Finance said about employment this time last year. They boasted about the track record of New Zealand and about the low unemployment, which was inherited from a Labour Government, in comparison to what was happening in Australia. I ask members to listen to this from John Key: \u201CI do know that New Zealand\u2019s unemployment rate is 5 percent, and we can contrast that with the rate in Australia, which is 5.7 percent,\u201D. He said that showed that National was doing a good job of holding down the unemployment rate in New Zealand. Then Bill English went a step further than that. He said that New Zealand was doing much better because the Government had the fiscal stimulus right. He said: \u201Cour fiscal stimulus has kept our unemployment rate down to 5 percent. So which one is it: copy Australia\u2019s plan and force up the unemployment rate up, or stick to our plan and keep the unemployment rate lower?\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe problem was that there was no plan in New Zealand. However, there was clearly an effective plan in Australia. Kevin Rudd had a good stimulus package going to the whole of Australia. Research and development there is up 25 percent, and money is being invested in skills and training. What are the figures today after those boastful claims from John Key and Bill English? Australian unemployment is down to 5.3 percent; New Zealand unemployment is up to 7.3 percent. For the first time in a decade, New Zealand unemployment is running higher than Australia\u2019s. It is one-third higher than Australia\u2019s. What did we do in New Zealand? We had a Job Summit. Do members remember the three big ideas? One was the cycleway. I ask Mr Brownlee how many jobs have been created in the last 14 months in the building of that cycleway since that Job Summit. Does Mr Brownlee know the answer? It is zero; no jobs have been created, despite the fact that our unemployment has risen to 168,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThen there was the big employment package in August, which was rushed through so that John Key could announce it to the National Party conference. We wanted to find out what the thinking was behind that employment package. Radio New Zealand put in an Official Information Act request, and for 9 months National refused to respond to it. Today the information was released and New Zealand can see why National tried to cover up the information. Treasury said that the scheme represented poor value for money. Treasury regarded the $120 million scheme as poor value and was unlikely to increase long-term jobs. The jobs that were created by the 6-month short-term subsidies to employers disappeared when the subsidies went. The big package in August was an absolute failure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThere are 72,000 young New Zealanders out of work. The Government spends more money, but what about the fact that 37 percent of our teenage M\u0101ori and Pasifika kids are out of work, not in training, and not in education? That figure of 37 percent is a disaster waiting to happen. We had the mega-mining plan that was going to create jobs, but suddenly the plan has become modest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002257dfc8bdf13041c5903eec52c8ee1c10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257dfc8bdf13041c5903eec52c8ee1c10\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Phil Goff says that Kiwis do not ask for a lot or expect a lot. He would know that, because under 9 years of Labour Government they did not get a lot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThat is one of the things that have been turned around by this Government. In a couple of weeks\u2019 time we will see Budget 2010, which will build on the marvellous results from 2009. When we came into Government we inherited an economy that was on the skids and a country that was already in recession. We took over from a Government that had been in office for 9 years, had built up debt, had built up expectations, but had left the kitty absolutely empty. That is what it did, and it did that at a time when it should have known that the country would be going through tough times because of a world recession. But instead of doom and gloom in the country, what actually happened last year was that a very straight course was run\u2014something that Labour could never do. We went on a very straight course to make sure that as many Kiwis as possible stayed in jobs, and that as many people as possible stayed in work, so that they could in fact contribute to the economy and look after themselves. But what we had had under Labour was more borrowing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022646a676161c841b688b65613c43ed580\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us about Savoy? She doesn\u2019t like that. She doesn\u2019t want to talk about Savoy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c1227df640f4c3cbe0f0d07f87509c8\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Cunliffe, who is very noisy today, has an answer for everything. His answer is to borrow, borrow, and borrow, and when that is finished to borrow a bit more. It used to be \u201Ctax and spend\u201D under Labour; now it would be \u201Cborrow and spend\u201D. That is what Mr Cunliffe says. He says that New Zealand does not have a debt problem. Unfortunately, we have a debt problem caused by Labour when it was in Government, because it never saved so that it could spend wisely and invest to help people get into their own businesses and keep their heads above water. Instead, all that the previous Labour Government ever did was spend, spend, and spend, then borrow\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230dc130d166340eea11f79d2f479410c\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s unravelling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ab087966df743a9a021b69d1937e575\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I say to Mr Cunliffe\u2014and borrow some more. Mr Cunliffe would like to see us like Japan. He would like to see us far into debt; that is what he wants. He is telling Bill English to borrow more and just put it on the card. Well, we all know about that, and we are looking forward to the payments on Mr Cunliffe\u2019s cards becoming public in another month\u2019s time. I say to Mr Cunliffe that I am really looking forward to that. I am looking forward to seeing what he was spending taxpayer dollars on; I have a lot to say about that. Mr Cunliffe does not like it when we talk about borrowing, does he? Not a lot! No, he does not like it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWhy is that? Mr Cunliffe is Phil Goff\u2019s biggest enemy, and that is not just because he wants to be the leader of the party. It is because any thought of Mr Cunliffe being anywhere near Treasury would be enough to send Labour down to 18 percent in the polls, which is where it should be. Unfortunately, Mr Cunliffe is the Labour finance spokesperson, so about now Mr Goff must be wondering what he is doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIn contrast to that, in Budget 2010 we will see some policies to lift New Zealand\u2019s long-term economic performance\u2014a performance that will continue to get better, time and time again. But it will not be an easy job. One of the things we are doing is bringing in more money from the back office into the front line, and we will see a readjustment in spending to make sure that that happens. That is something the Labour Government could never do. Labour\u2019s idea of helping people was to build up the bureaucracy in Wellington and to forget about the people who paid the bills, but under National we will not see that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250b8cb5a1a8c4d56995e91931e99645a\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: But what are you doing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bece710485bd45cb9b3c804c17133c10\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Cunliffe asks what we are doing. Well, in the corrections area, which was left in the most appalling mess by Phil Goff, we are doing a public-private partnership. We are leading the way and doing something that Labour never had the backbone to do, which was to invest in our own people to help them get ahead and bring the economy forward. Labour could not do that because its whole answer was \u201Cborrow and spend\u201D. All Mr Cunliffe has to say is \u201Cborrow and spend\u201D. We will be undertaking that partnership while maintaining firm control over the Government\u2019s finances, and it is extremely important that we do so. It would be very, very difficult just to continue on as we are. We will make sure that we get better productivity. Under 9 years of Labour, during the best economic times the world has seen, we had 1.1 percent growth in productivity. That is what the Labour Government had, but unfortunately the legacy it left us was debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u00221bc89a4bc33742549fece8cd721f1ce8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bc89a4bc33742549fece8cd721f1ce8\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just point out that I could barely hear the Minister in her speech. It was as if she were not even miked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002210cdec4f10194b4b81f10f79bd3f2d45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210cdec4f10194b4b81f10f79bd3f2d45\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the next honourable member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228835fd6517bb498594bc14712e1eaf6c\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Go and fill up!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b155a57209f4182a1b2f023b9dc8e9d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the Hon David Cunliffe that the Speaker is not going to go and fill up. What is more, the member will not interject like that when I am on my feet. Interjections give this House some life, and it is important that this place is not boring, but I think the point that Dr Cam Calder has made is a fair one. The level of interjection that the Hon Judith Collins was having to try to speak through was pretty unreasonable. I ask members to be a little more reasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00222937b76ed6a746b89b9bd20d566dcfb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222937b76ed6a746b89b9bd20d566dcfb9\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We have just heard from Judith Collins\u2014a Minister who has had a lot from taxpayers. She has had gallons and gallons of free petrol. She is now known as the biggest gas guzzler in the whole Parliament. I have to say that the gloss is going off this superficial Government very fast, indeed. I was very interested to read Colin Espiner\u2019s column yesterday when he said: \u201CIn the life cycle of every administration, there\u2019s a stage when it \u2018tips\u2019 \u2026\u201D and he asks about that because he thinks that perhaps things are about to change for the worse for this Government. I have to say to Colin, if he is listening, that he is dead right. People in New Zealand and serious commentators are waking up to the fact that they have a Government of spin, spin, spin. They have a Government of bluster and blatherskite. It is a Government of photo opportunities, whether its members are posing with babies or posing in a flak jacket in Bamian. Policies are pulled out of the hat to meet a media and photo opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWhere have the enduring principles of the proud old National Party gone? They have been replaced by opportunism and poll-driven slogans. That is what we get from the Government of today: \u201Cambitious for New Zealand\u201D has become \u201Cambiguous for New Zealand\u201D. We were going to have a step change with a cycleway that has not produced a single job. We were going to catch up with Australia, but Australia\u2019s unemployment is going down and our unemployment going up. And, guess what is happening: the New Zealanders who were all going to come home under John Key\u2019s Government are all heading back across the Tasman. What we get from National members are big bang policy announcements so that they can keep up the old poll ratings, which they take every week. I believe that National members are the original poll-driven fruitcakes. Everything they do is based on a poll. Serious commentators are now asking: what does National stand for; where is the Government\u2019s moral compass; what drives the Prime Minister; what is the plan; what is the step change; and where is the leadership? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003ELet us take just unemployment as an issue. Unemployment, when people\u2019s jobs are taken from them and they are thrown on the scrap heap, is one of the most pernicious things we can have in society. Any serious Government would see what it could do to help those who are unemployed, particularly young people who are just starting out in life and want a job. All they have from this Government are publicity shots; unemployment has been nothing more than a plaything for this Government. It has not taken unemployment seriously. As Phil Goff said, it held a media-managed Job Summit. Everyone was to come to the summit and have a look at Mr Key as he announced major policies that would bring about a step change for New Zealand and jobs for everybody. I have to admit that it got him on television, but what have we ended up with? We had an unemployment rate that was the lowest in the OECD, below Australia\u2019s, but it is now one of the highest at 7.3 percent\u201430 percent higher than Australia\u2019s. Australia has created 215,000 jobs in 6 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWhat have we done? Sixty thousand Kiwis have lost their jobs. Of our young people, 72,000 of them are now unemployed. For 6 months Mr Key and his Cabinet did nothing, but on 1 August last year along came the National Party conference. A late Cabinet paper, of 29 July, was rushed through so John Key could make an announcement at the National Party conference. No wonder Treasury said the policy was poorly thought out, it was not going to achieve the goals, and, basically, it was a waste of money. Treasury has been proved correct. I ask National members opposite to have a look at the results of their policies, because they have not produced them for young New Zealanders. It is a crying shame to see what that Government is doing to so many young people in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u002243ff70a09d554309872187bbd402435b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243ff70a09d554309872187bbd402435b\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E The effects of the global economic recession have been felt around the world but not so much in this end of the world. In fact, this end of the world has actually been pretty lucky in the overall context of the world economic recession. It will come as a surprise to the members opposite to know that, in fact, New Zealand grew at a faster rate than Australia in the second half of 2009 on a per capita basis. That will come as a surprise to the Opposition, but it just goes to show that New Zealand is not doing too bad, but there is heaps more to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EHere is another piece of news for the Opposition: Governments do not hold up the sky on their own; they can do things in the short-term\u2014and this Government is\u2014but, ultimately, it takes businesses in viable industries where New Zealand has a competitive advantage to create ongoing jobs. We do not magic them out of thin air, I say to Mr Cunliffe. That means having a tax system that, firstly, encourages people to work hard and get ahead. Budget 2010 will deliver that tax system for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EIt also means a regulatory environment that encourages industries to grow and add jobs, and to do that we have to have changes and we have to look at things that we can do to encourage industries. I talk of things like unlocking responsible mining opportunities for jobs, things like unlocking irrigation opportunities for jobs, things like unlocking opportunities for more aquaculture space, and things like allowing more productive heavy vehicles to transport our goods to market; all of which this Government is doing and most of which the Opposition opposes. Labour members say we do not do enough about jobs but they have no solutions, and all the time they hate the things that we are doing. They bleat on and on about job creation and growth but what did the previous Labour Government do to tackle any of these challenging things when it had the chance? It did nothing, and members opposite offer nothing now. They offer nothing to encourage industries to create growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EIn fact, their only solution is to saddle a struggling Crown company with a political decision to try to start a new industry when that company knows that commercially it does not make sense and has no comparative advantage. In fact, members opposite know that as well, because the previous Government had the opportunity to build trains in New Zealand but did not go ahead with it. But that is their only token suggestion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThis Government does assist; it is working hard and helps job creation by investing in infrastructure. We are doing that like nobody else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e12dd7ab529541d48d0bde0e91363407\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Where is the broadband?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a07591d3fed7456393a5d58fff881542\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: We are making massive investments. For example, we have invested massively in Transpower for electricity transmission, in roading with $11 billion for new State highway infrastructure in the next 10 years, and, yes, I say to Mr Cunliffe, in ultra-fast broadband. If Mr Cunliffe had left the sector in better shape, then we would not have to take the reasonable period of time we are to achieve that. Also we are making massive investment in education and skills. Labour members do not talk about this, but we have the largest number of places ever in New Zealand tertiary institutions this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EBut the biggest impact the Government can have on real growth is to control its own expenditure. Controlling Government expenditure keeps debt down, it keeps interest rates lower than they otherwise would be, and it keeps exchange rates under control. Labour members do not understand that; they actually want something done about exchange rates\u2014they have been talking about it for a year now but they have no ideas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EOne of the most important things that a Government can do to influence these things is through its Budgets and showing control of expenditure. That is what Budget 2010 will do. It will control expenditure, and it will give the opportunity for the private sector to grow because it will lower interest rates. The Opposition needs to learn to understand that, because frankly Mr Cunliffe does not. He claims there is no debt problem in New Zealand. He says that somehow we could just magic our way to success by borrowing more money. Well, that is a recipe for disaster, as the Minister of Finance pointed out yesterday. We already have large private sector debt. If we add large public sector debt on top of that, we will create a debt problem for New Zealand. Frankly, the Opposition does not understand that, and until it learns about that then the public of New Zealand will not trust Labour with the Treasury accounts again, because its only solution is to spend more money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003ELabour members criticise every expenditure change made by this Government and have said they would keep all the expenditure. They would keep spending away and growing the Government\u2019s side of the economy and shrinking the real side of the economy. We know what the outcome of that is; we know it is low growth rates, and we saw it between 2006 and 2008. Before the economic recession even began in the rest of the world, we saw low per capita growth\u2014in fact, negative per capita growth in this country. So Budget 2010 will create many more jobs in New Zealand by controlling expenditure and investing in infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea134707ef024d17afa00076815eb1a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea134707ef024d17afa00076815eb1a7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E We have heard from the \u201CMinister for Faster Cheaper Broadband\u201D, but not one inch has been laid on his watch. What is happening? Ordinary Kiwis are watching \u201CCruiser Collins\u201D sucking off the teat of the taxpayer\u2014100 bucks a week in petrol\u2014at the same time that she gets a chauffeur-driven limousine. Bill English was double-dipping on the taxpayer, and is still pretending he lives in Dipton while drawing an accommodation supplement in Wellington. John Key stands up a trade mission in the Middle East, whose members paid $20,000 each to go with him, while he does flak-jacket photo opportunities in Afghanistan. Gerry Brownlee is the only one to get a run on the board this week for that Government. He managed to draw the biggest crowd in Auckland history and unite them against the Government. It was the biggest crowd in Auckland history for Gerry Brownlee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWhile all of that is happening, what are ordinary Kiwis saying? I will read out a heartfelt plea from an ordinary Kiwi that I saw on a website: \u201CEvery time National gets in it costs me directly in the pocket, being an average Kiwi. Last time they were in there were calls \u2018We need to tighten our belts\u2019. Then things did get better under Labour, but again National are cutting things and costing me and mine in the pocket, using the same catchcry \u2018Tighten the belts for the betterment of the country\u2019. I suppose they mean things will get better for middle and lower Kiwis when Labour are back again.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThings just go from bad to worse for Bill English. Two weeks out from the Budget, the Government should be rolling in a string of positive press from its own pre-Budget announcements, but instead it is rolling in the muck of its own making. Things go from bad to worse. \u201CFamilies paying more for their groceries\u201D, \u201CWages stall\u201D, \u201CA third of young New Zealanders out of work\u201D, and today we hear that the cycleway, which was the No. 1 job scheme, has created not one single job\u2014zero, nada, zip, nothing. There was not one job from the No. 1 initiative of the Job Summit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c8099bb83aa4b879b1eac01417cb840\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: That was the big deal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e20b1f961aa8466db965d874d39a4a17\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: That was the big deal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWhat about the 9-day fortnight, the great job scheme? It was so bad that only 30 companies used it and the Government cancelled it in the middle of the recession. What about ordinary Kiwis who are worrying about paying the bills? They received about 1 percent in wage growth in the last year\u20141 percent\u2014and that was before inflation. They are going backwards and they know it. They are worrying about paying the mortgage, worrying about putting food on the table, and worrying about their power prices going up. Meanwhile \u201CCruiser Collins\u201D is looking for a gas station. It just is not right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe tipping point has come, because New Zealanders now believe that this Government is more worried about its own popularity than about doing what is right for New Zealand and about having New Zealanders\u2019 interests at heart, putting food on their table, and protecting their jobs. Here is the truth, here is the bottom line: this Government does not have a plan for the job of \u201CJoe Average\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe Government does not have a plan to grow this economy. It says that four things will do it\u2014the four solutions. More jobs, it says, but that does not work because the gap with Australia is widening and our unemployment is now at a record high for the past 10 years. It would reform the tax system, but that means the \u201CJoe Averages\u201D will pay more for GST on everything they buy and the rich few will get a whopping big tax cut. That does not work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe Government says there will be better delivery of public services. Well, we have not talked too much about that, so let us just go through a few broken promises. National promised that it would not cut services. What part of that promise has it broken so far? It has taken $49 million from road policing, there has been a 25 percent cut in teachers\u2019 professional development, and it has taken $130 million over 4 years from adult education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThere are 250,000 Kiwis who have lost their night classes to save about $13 million a year, which is about one-third of the extra subsidy that those Tories gave to private schools. Quarter of a million ordinary Kiwis are missing out so that the Government can give a bonus to private schools, and that is wrong. Ordinary Kiwis know it is wrong. They think it stinks, and that is why the tipping point has come. The Government has taken $25 million over 4 years from curriculum development and school programmes in State schools, and $28 million from the training incentive allowance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u00222b02522017474eb192e2296ea506e40f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b02522017474eb192e2296ea506e40f\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E The upcoming Budget is what National will put forward for this country. We have a plan, despite what the previous speaker, David Cunliffe, alluded to. The plan will underline this Government\u2019s credentials as a safe economic manager of this country. The plan will look to a tax system that is fairer across all sectors of the economy, and it will also produce a set of accounts that will read much better than those under the last Government, which were bleeding red before the economic recession hit this country. Unlike our counterparts across the Chamber, we will not have a borrowing programme that will lead us to the type of situation occurring in Greece and other countries across the world, which are experiencing severe financial distress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe legacy the last Labour Government left us was one of stagnant growth, and one of economic growth that, year on year, was approximately 1 percent. One percent growth per year, year on year, during its administration is unacceptable. But growing at a rate of knots under the last Government was core Government bureaucracy. That was the biggest game in town under the last Government, and it is the game that this Government is committed to reining in. The other big legacy the last Labour Government left for us was a tradable sector that had been declining for 5 consecutive years. For 5 consecutive years the New Zealand export sector declined. We will not get out of this economic recession unless we expand the export sector, expand job opportunities within that sector, and expand the economy in terms of our external debt. Things will be grave economically if we are not prudent. Our external net debt is 90 percent of GDP. I repeat that: our external debt is 90 percent of GDP\u2014one of the highest ratios in the Western hemisphere, one of the highest ratios among developed countries\u2014and we have to stop it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe last speaker asked about creating jobs. I heard from my friend Mr Quinn recently that a job is available: the job of Leader of the Opposition. Apparently a barbecue is going on this Friday night, but we do not know the location. We do not know whether it will be in Wainui\u014Dmata, St Marys Bay, or up in Northland. [Interruption] Well, that riled them. Where is it? I hear it is in St Marys Bay. Members should bring their own lattes\u2014BYO lattes. They do not eat sausages any more; they eat quiche at the barbecues. Labour members eat quiche at their barbecues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e52aa59dd0a74f10980ed85ff66ac222\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: A new leader on Saturday morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248641aa9479a4672b735d514188769df\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: We have heard right here in the Chamber that there will be a new leader on Saturday morning. As much as I admire my friend and colleague Mr Goff, who is MP of a neighbouring electorate and is a good electorate MP, I do not believe that the people of New Zealand look at Mr Goff and see the next leader of this country. Members on that side of the House have to think about where leadership comes from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e701edefc7bd4cf086f02acfd4ced3fd\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: Why don\u2019t you talk about jobs for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa1a82c6cf544bfca5a37277badbaf00\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: They want to talk about the economy. It is about productive investment and savings. Only through investment, savings, and changing the structure of our economy will we get out of this recession.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcaf51f6b75243fbaddfa1b4cc67b735\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Where\u2019s the plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227186f0ad769b49eb8f91c988a8d817e4\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Mr Nash that the plan is quite clear, as he knows. The plan is quite clear: a fairer tax system, investment in innovation, and investment in jobs that matter to this country. We are also about saving. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002218616fc62df9465698d6bc7aae60683c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218616fc62df9465698d6bc7aae60683c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E In the next session of this Parliament Mr English will present his second Budget of this term of office\u2014the second of three Budgets, 1 short year away from the likely election. It is time to reflect on whether National is performing and keeping its promises. We have heard today Steven Joyce and, during question time, Bill English ranting unwisely that the prior Labour Government mismanaged the economy. I have The Economist magazine from this week in front of me\u2014the world\u2019s pre-eminent financial magazine. What is the front-page story? \u201CAcropolis now: Europe\u2019s debt crisis spins out of control\u201D. It is not just Greece, not just Portugal, and not just Italy; it is all of those countries plus Great Britain and others, albeit to a lesser extent. All of those countries went and did what National members, when they were Opposition spokespeople, said New Zealand should do. At that time, John Key said that Labour should not be running those Budget surpluses and reducing Government debt; he wanted tax cuts for New Zealanders. After Bill English took over his position, he said exactly the same. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIf we had made those decisions it would have left New Zealand in the same position as the countries that are highlighted in this week\u2019s issue of The Economist magazine. New Zealand\u2019s Government debt would be out of control. Instead, the Labour Government, against the strident opposition of the National Party, ran Budget surpluses until we had countercyclical tax cuts as we left office. Those Budget surpluses meant that we left Government debt low: gross Government debt at 17 percent of GDP, and net Government debt at close to 0 percent of GDP. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EInstead, if we look at Italy, we see that Government debt is 116 percent of GDP\u2014these are last year\u2019s figures\u2014and if we look at Great Britain, we see it is 68 percent of GDP but heading very fast towards 100 percent of GDP. We in this country experienced the mismanagement of the economy under the Rt Hon Sir Robert Muldoon, who left New Zealand\u2019s debt at about 80 percent of GDP, so we know that it takes a whole generation to get it back under control. I am sick to death of National members crowing about economic mismanagement by the Labour Party when they know we did it right, and as a consequence we are not one of the countries that The Economist is listing under the headline \u201CAcropolis now: Europe\u2019s debt crisis spins out of control\u201D. We left the books in good order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI turn to the comparison with Australia. The National Government was elected on the promise that it was going to lift New Zealand\u2019s fortunes and get back to the position of Australia. What is happening? The opposite: we are getting further apart. Unemployment is getting worse. You know, people always ask what the big difference is between New Zealand and Australia, and those members say it is mining. At one stage they were going to open up 467,000 hectares of national parks, which was going to get us to close to Australia. Well, they have whipped that plan back to 7,000 hectares, which is obviously not going to get us to catch up with Australia, and where is their plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENational\u2019s Minister for Economic Development, Gerry Brownlee, has no other plan. The big difference between New Zealand and Australia is Australia\u2019s savings record, its access to capital, which gives it the money to invest in productive enterprise, to pay higher wages, to sell smarter products, and to have more manufacturing in its home country. But what does the National Government do? Well, it does what National Governments have always done. In 1975 a National Government cut the savings scheme that would have had New Zealand in the same position as that of Australia. That was a Labour Government scheme, designed by Roger Douglas and implemented by Norman Kirk. Since then, this National Government has done the same thing again with KiwiSaver. The difference is savings; National does not have a plan. The gaps between us and Australia are growing ever larger. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea6638de0eef4c4b853996ce7115187e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea6638de0eef4c4b853996ce7115187e\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National\u2014West Coast - Tasman):\u003C/span\u003E As a well-known political catchphrase goes, \u201CIt\u2019s the economy, stupid.\u201D, and I say that it is. Indeed, no amount of emotion, such as we have just heard expressed on the other side of the House, will make a difference to the hard facts. I am delighted to speak in today\u2019s general debate, on the economy. The economy is the most fundamental part of Government, and the economy influences the standard of living of our population. The economy determines what we can afford to spend in the crucial areas of health, welfare, and education, and the economy is crucial for creating jobs and realising higher incomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003ELet us reflect for a moment and go back over some of our economic history, through the Holyoake years, the Kirk years, the Rowling years, the Muldoon years, the Lange, Palmer, and Moore years, the Bolger years, the Clark years, and now, at a time of economic renaissance, the Key years. I know, from my own experience in business and from listening to others, which of those periods was best for hard-working New Zealanders and their families, and it was not, is not, and never will be, the years during Labour\u2019s tenure; Labour likes a welfare-dependent constituency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EToday I will talk about the progress we have made in resurrecting the economy after 9 years\u20149 long years\u2014of economic mismanagement. I will talk about the steps we have undertaken to ensure that the edge has been taken off the recession\u2014because it has been. I will talk about the policy direction in which we are moving forward in order to maximise our economic growth and productivity. We in National look to reward resourcefulness, to encourage enterprise, and to salute and celebrate success, and that is reflected in the economic decision-making of our team. First of all, I ask what kind of economy we inherited from the previous Labour Government. When we, the National-led Government came into office, New Zealand had already been in recession for most of the year. By the December 2008 fiscal update, net debt was soaring to be about 50 percent of GDP by 2023, and there were permanent deficits. It was obvious that this country needed some serious economic salvaging from the mess that Labour policies were largely responsible for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EWe have acted quickly to cap the numbers in our core bureaucracy, with $2 billion being moved to front-line services. Another $1.8 billion will be redirected to Budget 2010. We have invested billions of dollars in critical infrastructure such as high-speed broadband, and we have implemented a $500 million relief package to make life simpler for small businesses. We have also simplified and streamlined the Resource Management Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7e9f6ad7aa342fe884da8ba6a796ccd\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Who wrote this rubbish?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022174b150a4dac4d5bae536725e9638ecf\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE\u003C/span\u003E: That Act is perhaps the most important legislation to date\u2014and Mr Mallard knows that. The Local Government and Environment Committee, of which I am the chair, worked diligently and hard to ensure that the amendments would achieve the intentions of making it easier for businesses to grow, and of investing in and creating jobs, while protecting our environment. This, and the other changes we are embarking on, will be a great boon for our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003ELet us think for a moment of the rural areas that we so much depend on for the revenue-earning capacity of our country. Let us look at West Coast-Tasman, an electorate of resilient, resourceful, and hard-working people, and an electorate that I am very, very proud to represent. The recession has been cushioned by the increase of jobs in mining, the very industry that Labour\u2014mining is its own origins\u2014now wishes to dismantle and to suffocate. The tourism industry, under the guidance of the Minister of Tourism, Prime Minister John Key, in the West Coast has actually increased during the recession, and it has increased substantially. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EWe have seen a stabilisation of agriculture and horticulture within the electorate. We are starting to see interesting changes. For example, I was doing a shop-by-shop visit the other day in Motueka, where the majority of retail businesses are doing very nicely, and where they are reporting that people are now coming over from Nelson to Motueka to shop for a greater range of goods and for price competitiveness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u002218543f7f9e8244e7abd3d68ebf2ed7a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218543f7f9e8244e7abd3d68ebf2ed7a6\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa. On Saturday a friend of mine turned 50; Tau Henare wanted to say \u201CSkunk, Happy Birthday!\u201D. I thought I would dedicate this slot to recognising a son of Ng\u0101ti \u0100maru, a committed supporter of the K\u012Bngitanga, and a longstanding member of Black Power. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EMartin Cooper was just a kid when Black Power was born here in Aotearoa. It was the voice of alienated and freshly urbanised M\u0101ori youth revelling in being outsiders and rejecting a mainstream society that was determined to crush the hopes of marginalised M\u0101ori youth. Like many other young M\u0101ori coping with adolescence, he was a handful. He was wh\u0101ngaied out when he was young, eventually finding unconditional acceptance only with the Black Power wh\u0101nau, during tough and dangerous times when he often ran foul of the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EAs he matured, his leadership qualities became increasingly apparent, and he soon began to respond to the inner voice that told him that he was M\u0101ori, and that the Black Power in Aotearoa was something that had to draw its values and beliefs from the teachings of his ancestors. Influenced by leaders like him, the often aimless and destructive gang runs were replaced by marae-based alcohol-free and drug-free w\u0101nanga, which led to Black Power taking a firm line against the then all-too-common practice of gang rape. That took courageous leadership from people like Martin. He has also been a driving force in the movement to stop the manufacture, distribution, and use of methamphetamine, which was the fulfilment of a promise made at the graveside of a much loved lost brother Hone Day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EHis growth saw him move to Hamilton in pursuit of his reo, and he talks fondly of the wh\u0101nau that took him in to teach him his mother tongue under the kaupapa of Te Ataarangi. The commitment and the dedication that had marked his time with the brotherhood showed results as he grew into his role as the speaker for his wh\u0101nau. Martin\u2019s involvement with waka huia is also one of long standing, enabling him to bring the discipline and power of kapahaka to the Black Power brotherhood. Again, he worked at it with the dedication and the passion that he gave to everything he did, promoting w\u0101nanga all around the motu, and dedicating his efforts to Ng\u0101p\u014D and P\u012Bmia Wehi, whom today he proudly calls his mentors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EHe has worked hard, demonstrating the value of hard slog and of earning a legitimate income, eventually taking up a job with the Group Employment Liaison Scheme and the Community Employment Group scheme, where he mentored me into my one and only Government job, and where he gave his all because the kaupapa of his work was giving back to the communities from which he came. This employment within the belly of the beast raised his consciousness about where the real decisions were being made, and about how, if he really wanted to influence the health and wealth of his people, he needed to be a policy maker and not just a policy statistic. That knowledge led to his undertaking, and being successful at, tertiary study, which reminds us all that the pursuit of knowledge is a lifelong obligation, and puts out the challenge again to the brotherhood that to learn is to grow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIn recent years Martin\u2019s new-found knowledge, his growth, and his commitment to M\u0101ori development led to his getting involved with the M\u0101ori Party, where he quickly became a critical leader of Pita Sharples\u2019 A-team, helping Pete to win in 2005, and taking up a formal role after the 2005 election\u2014a position he still holds today. Again, he has demonstrated another route for young M\u0101ori warriors and another set of possibilities, created by his work ethic and his commitment to a kaupapa. His loyalty to his K\u012Bngitanga is something he carries without much fuss. It is a role he accepts as part of his leadership within his wh\u0101nau and his hap\u016B, a commitment that is lifelong, and a belief that he carries in his heart wherever he goes. A proud son of Tainui, Martin is a fine ambassador for his people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EToday I acknowledge a brother of the M\u0101ori nation who has shown by his efforts that commitment, dedication, loyalty, and passion are talents that can take anyone to where they want to be. Martin Cooper is a leader in all that he has done and a role model for others to follow. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u00229d76dde21ecb4978b86705cdc05deee9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d76dde21ecb4978b86705cdc05deee9\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E It is highly relevant that the Leader of the Opposition and the deputy leader of the Labour Party have presided over two of New Zealand\u2019s worst economic disasters. Those leaders have been around for many decades. I can think of the years between 1984 and 1989 when their Government left New Zealand technically bankrupt. But the other highly relevant point is that when Labour\u2019s new blood, its new finance spokesperson, the Hon David Cunliffe\u2014man of the people; member for New Lynn but resident of St Marys Bay\u2014went on study leave in Tokyo the other day, Labour\u2019s polling suddenly went up. When he came back, 2 to 3 weeks later, Labour\u2019s polling went down again, and did so from a very low base, I must say. This just absolutely points out what a bad situation Labour is in\u2014what a shocking situation it is in. First, Labour has a leader and deputy leader who have presided over New Zealand\u2019s worst economic disasters. Secondly, when the brand new blood went out of the country, Labour made a bit of a recovery in the polls. But that has not lasted. No, Labour has gone straight back down, into the depths of despair, which is its true place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EHowever, it is important to remember back to those absolutely disastrous years of 1984 to 1989, when Phil Goff and the Hon Annette King were there. New Zealand was technically bankrupt at the end of that time. Interest rates were up to a massive, whopping 22 percent. Farmers had to leave their farms, at the end of Labour\u2019s legacy. Inflation was up to 6 or 7 percent, and unemployment was generally at 11 percent, but for M\u0101ori it was 22 percent and for Pacific Islanders it was 33 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc386466ee9042f0be9ff26eb37a72b1\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve got it wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8db1288d3b342f6ba3f5d2386da95bd\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: I can hear Mr Nash saying that that is wrong. He has forgotten just how bad Labour\u2019s legacy was back then, in the 1980s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EBut let us have a look at what happened between 2008 and 2009, because in many respects that time was just about as bad. That was a possible golden era for New Zealand, but the Labour Government blew it\u2014it absolutely blew it. In fact, Labour had the gall, in its very last Budget, to spend up $10 billion in the hope that it could win back a few votes. Labour left the cupboard bare. Labour had the gall, in the knowledge that an economic recession was on its way, to leave New Zealand\u2019s cupboard absolutely bare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003ELet us have a look at some of the figures. There was falling economic growth: minus 0.2 percent annual GDP growth in the December quarter of 2008-09, down from 3.2 percent. But it is worse than that. When Labour came into power in 1999, economic growth in the last quarter of the National Government was 4.6 percent. But growth rocketed the wrong way, down to minus 2 percent, at the end of 9 long years of Labour. There was rising unemployment, at 4.6 percent in the December quarter of 2008-09, which was up from 3.4 percent in 2007-08. It was reminiscent of that decade before, when Labour let New Zealand down so badly. There was high inflation, 3.4 percent annual CPI growth, a $16.1 billion current account deficit, and annual productivity growth that was only 1.1 percent, between 2000 and 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI can think of just how bad it was in the health field. A Treasury report pointed out that there was no productivity growth in the health sector over those years when Labour invested or spent\u2014misspent\u2014an extra $6 billion a year. Labour invested $6 billion a year, but for no extra elective surgery. Yet in the last year National has been proud to announce that 11,800 new elective procedures are being done per year. It has been a magnificent time for this National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u002259eafaa84d694ee8a0e84bc8e1f95dae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259eafaa84d694ee8a0e84bc8e1f95dae\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E What a rewrite of history that was. I think the previous speaker, Paul Hutchison, is mixed up with Muldoon. At the end of the Muldoon era we were in such trouble that public servants had to go out and put stuff on their credit cards, we were so hard up. As for Ruth Richardson\u2014goodness me! It took until New Zealand had a Labour Government to get unemployment down to the level it was at previously. What a rewrite of history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI would like to start with a very short quiz. Who said: \u201CNational is not going to raise GST.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d44bcfcfcda84f43ab9a37e230196fde\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: John Key.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244f82aa7df0f4fed8eada30959eca28d\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Right; it was John Key. The people of New Zealand voted for no increase in GST, because this is what John Key explicitly told them: \u201CNational is not going to raise GST.\u201D Mr Key and Mr English are National members, and they are going to raise GST. It annoys the hell out of New Zealanders that these senior politicians could be so disingenuous as to promise one thing and deliver another. The Prime Minister promised no GST increases, yet New Zealanders will get them. That is simply not fair. That is called a broken promise. My question is: why would we raise GST? That is a rhetorical question, because there is no right answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ELet me give members the facts. Mr Key and Mr English have said that New Zealand taxes consumption at a relatively low rate. The coverage of our GST system is comprehensive, from avocados to zinc and everything in between. As a result, New Zealand has the sixth-highest level of general consumption taxation as a proportion of GST out of the 30 OECD countries. The OECD stated in its 2000 edition of revenue statistics: \u201CThere has not been any general trend in OECD countries from direct to indirect taxation. Over the past forty years, the general trend away from indirect taxes has been so strong that only six countries\u2014Luxembourg, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Poland and the Slovak Republic\u2014escaped it.\u201D In fact, only Iceland, Ireland, Portugal, and the Slovak Republic had a higher percentage of the total tax take from consumption taxes. We have a comprehensive GST system. I ask the M\u0101ori Party members whether they will support a Budget and a Government that increases the rate of GST, when they have a member\u2019s bill proposing to cut GST on food. Where does the M\u0101ori Party stand on the issue of a general increase in GST? I say to Rahui Katene to stand by her principles and to not support this Budget of broken promises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI would like to ask Mr Key and Mr English whether they have read the research from a conservative UK thinktank that found that increases in consumption tax, like GST, would be more damaging to economic growth than increases in base income tax. I would also like to ask the Minister of Finance what he will say to the 19 percent of small to medium sized enterprises surveyed by the New Zealand Herald who believe that any increase in GST will seriously reduce sales, while another 41 percent think it will have a minor impact; that is, 60 percent of businesses polled by the New Zealand Herald believe that an increase in GST will hurt their business. Of those companies, just over 56 percent of them were opposed to any increase in GST, and, of those, 32 percent were strongly opposed to an increase in GST. Not only are the people of this country opposed to an increase in GST but also over half the businesses are, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn another scary piece of information for Kiwis, the polling went on to state: \u201CWhile all firms plan to review their prices, 34.9 per cent envisage an increase of more than the GST increase of 2.5 per cent and 10.8 percent plan an increase of more than 5 per cent.\u201D Mark my words: if the Government thought that this would be a nice and simple transition, it is being naive. What will the Government do to ensure New Zealanders are not ripped off? I will tell members what\u2014nothing. Do members know why? It is because unless someone earns above the top marginal tax rate, the Government does not care. We have seen that proven in the House today when the Government said that it would not back Darien Fenton\u2019s redundancy bill. That is the law in Australia. We keep comparing ourselves with Australia. Well, if we want to compare ourselves with Australia, then the Government should back Ms Fenton\u2019s bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba719f739cb34bb1938f9e9a07bd1407\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba719f739cb34bb1938f9e9a07bd1407\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA (National):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. I will start my contribution this afternoon by inviting the Opposition members to join us on this planet. So far this afternoon we have heard a reinvention of the his-and-her-story of the time when members on that side of the House were in Government. The previous Labour Government left a legacy of red ink to us\u2014red ink. We had falling economic growth, with a 0.2 percent increase in annual GDP in the 2008-09 December year, which was down from 3.2 percent. We found that members opposite specialised in plummeting figures rather than in rising ones. The exception to that was the unemployment rate, which was 4.6 percent in the 2008-09 December quarter. It had gone up from 3.4 percent. Under Labour we had high inflation, a 3.4 percent annual consumer price index\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbb198c902f1477c9417d1cf516af21c\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What is it now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298eeff30962441a89ea43d52b56047e1\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: I will get to that. If that member would just still his impatient heart, I will get to where we are on that. We had a rising current account deficit under Labour. It was around 9 percent of GDP or $16.1 billion for the year ended December 2008, having gone up from $14.4 billion. Annual productivity growth was only 1.1 percent. What a significant achievement that was by the previous Labour Government between 2000 and 2008! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EBut members can rest assured that this Government has a plan. The National members have a plan. This plan brought us into Government in 2008 and saw us delivering a Budget in 2009 that redirected $2 billion worth of low-value expenditure, all of which had been brought in by Labour. Now we have a plan for 2010. New Zealanders are asking whether they should have Labour, which is a spend, spend, spend type of administration\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229443ac018aaf4bdd901b1424d12a076a\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: Borrow, borrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d96fbaefaa134a96a7339e28b5f00821\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I have not even got to the borrowing and taxing side of it yet\u2014or whether they should have the preparation for future growth that this Government is interested in, where numbers in the core bureaucracy are capped, $2 billion is to be moved to front-line public services over the next 4 years, and another $1.8 billion will be found in Budget 2010. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders can ask whether they should have the Labour approach to life, which is to borrow, borrow, borrow, when on the other hand they could have the National approach to life, where billions of extra dollars are invested in critical infrastructure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280136e33337b43c18fbab3ccfc3b91c1\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: This is a disgrace. This member shouldn\u2019t talk on that topic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fae97122fd2542b38dff77a5055f7ce1\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that member might care to listen, instead of shouting his frenetic statements, which nobody is interested in\u2014including the national grid and broadband. That infrastructure investment directly supports thousands of jobs in our communities and contributes to a stronger economy. They might ask whether they want the Labour approach, which is to tax, tax, tax, or on the other hand whether they prefer the National approach, which is to invest in a $500 million relief package to help simplify things for small businesses, which members on this side of the House understand are what will help to grow the economy in order for us to have a sustainable tax base. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EDo we want the Labour approach to life, which is to spend, borrow, spend, tax, spend, and borrow\u2014and so the refrain goes on\u2014or do we want an approach that sees the Resource Management Act simplified so that more people can get into business, more development can occur, and more jobs can be made available? Do we want an approach where we undertake major reviews and action follows them, unlike the approach of the Labour members, which was to have reviews and consult people to death when they were in Government, so that people suffered from consultation fatigue? That is the opposite of what members of the National Government do, because we take action on the things that we undertake to do. That is the kind of plan that members on this side of the House have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EBudget 2010 will see us lift New Zealand\u2019s long-term economic performance, because we are interested not in the short-term frippery that characterised members opposite when they were previously in Government, but in long-term, sustainable economic performance. Budget 2010 will outline broad-based reform of the taxation system, so that it becomes fairer, leaves the vast majority of households better off, and supports faster growth. Budget 2010 will move taxpayers\u2019 money to high-priority public services, spending significantly more on health and education. As we speak, the Minister of Health has just announced a new bowel cancer-screening test. That is yet another contribution to sustainable, long-term health in our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EWe have a plan. We have a Budget that is good for the economy and for New Zealand families. We invite members on that side of the House to join us on this planet, where we are ambitious for New Zealand and have a plan to support those ambitions. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227dcaba432f984880b08734946c00a940\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations (Statutory Minimum Redundancy Entitlements) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225070d6b6658b4215b670bd50933c1ddc\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u00223c69136cb5314ae2b770138e48ad285a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c69136cb5314ae2b770138e48ad285a\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker. Kia ora e te wh\u0101nau o ng\u0101 ringa t\u014Dt\u0101. I move, That the Employment Relations (Statutory Minimum Redundancy Entitlements) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. It is a privilege to introduce the first reading of this bill, and at the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be considered by the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIn the last year 60,000 workers have lost their jobs. For each of those workers, that is a personal tragedy. Every one of them has faced the awful impact and humiliation that redundancy has had on them and their families. How they have coped will have differed. Those who are union members, by and large, will be better off, because most of them are likely to have had some kind of redundancy protection in their agreements. But thousands of others\u2014like the warehouse supervisor Rob Highsted, who had worked for his company for 20 years until he was made redundant this week\u2014will have gone out of their jobs with absolutely nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAn estimated 80 percent of working New Zealanders have no redundancy protections written into their employment agreements. For these New Zealanders, losing their jobs can mean that they have no way to pay their mortgages, or support themselves and their families, while they search for other jobs. That is because there are no requirements in New Zealand law for minimum redundancy notice and compensation. The need for a fair system for redundancy protection has become more urgent over the past 18 months, as more people have lost their jobs and replacement jobs have been harder to find. I have been hearing from laid-off workers who have had no redundancy notice and pay. That has left them struggling to pay their mortgages and support their families. I have no doubt that other members in this House have heard the same stories.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThis bill would provide all working New Zealanders with basic redundancy protection to help tide them over between jobs. It is based on recommendations from the 2008 report of the Public Advisory Group to the Minister of Labour on Restructuring and Redundancy, which advised the then Government to consider introducing minimum redundancy protections for all workers. That group was established by Labour in 2007 to examine the adequacy of redundancy laws and provisions in New Zealand workplaces. The group was an independent body established to provide advice to the Government, and it included representatives from the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions and Business New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe advisory group recommended options for addressing the gaps in, and issues with, the existing law and policy provisions. The first recommendation of the advisory group was that the Government should consider the introduction of a statutory requirement for redundancy compensation, and other entitlements that incorporated the following features: notice of redundancy termination for the affected worker, compensation based on length of service, a maximum level of statutory compensation and provision of redundancy support, and active labour market mechanisms for affected workers and organisations. Unfortunately, the National Government\u2019s Minister of Labour allowed this very extensive and well-researched report to languish on her desk for 12 months, and then she threw it in the rubbish bin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Employment Relations Act by inserting a new Part 6E, \u201CStatutory minimum redundancy entitlements\u201D, under clause 4. The minimum entitlements for employees in this new part would apply to an employee who had been in a continuous employment relationship with an employer for more than one calendar year. Within 12 months, the Minister of Labour would be required to conduct a public education campaign to inform employers and employees of the minimum entitlements conferred by this legislation, and to report to the House of Representatives within 6 months of the conclusion of the campaign as to its details, including an independent evaluation of its effectiveness. The minimum entitlements under the bill that employers would receive as a result of new section 69ZL(1), inserted under clause 4, would be: \u201C(a) notice of dismissal\u201D\u2014due to redundancy\u2014\u201Cof no less than 4 weeks; and (b) compensation for redundancy \u2026 of 4 weeks\u2019 remuneration for the first full year of the employee\u2019s continuous employment with the employer; and (c) further compensation for redundancy in the amount of 2 weeks\u2019 remuneration for each subsequent full or partial year of the employee\u2019s continuous employment with the employer, up to a maximum entitlement of 26 weeks\u2019 remuneration.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ENew Zealand workers are among the cheapest and easiest in the world to sack. We are nearly alone in the developed world\u2014apart from the USA\u2014in having no redundancy notice in compensation. Last year, the Australian Federal Government introduced generous redundancy entitlements, because it is serious about protecting working families through the recession. We keep talking about wanting to catch up with Australia, but the Government seems unwilling to take notice of any of its good ideas\u2014and have we not heard some of them today! We can take the example of the hundreds of skilled New Zealand engineers who were dumped from their jobs with Australasian company Transfield Services, with no redundancy pay. Transfield said that it did not have to give them any redundancy pay, because there was nothing in law and nothing in the agreement for it to do so. Funnily enough, if those workers had been in Australia, Transfield would have been required by law to pay at least the compensation proposed in my bill. It just does not make sense to me that a company can treat its workers one way in its home country and differently in another country. But, unfortunately, they do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a9a97b414c744d6993854ea27c1671e\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Because they can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e98e57e94b9450384dc4d8b47720044\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. This issue is not just some abstract notion that I have dreamt up. I know that you yourself, Mr Assistant Speaker, have been involved in this issue in the past, as a member of Parliament. I have advocated for workers who have had redundancy compensation, and for those who have not had it. I have seen first-hand how devastating redundancy is, and how devastating it can be, for those workers who get laid off with nothing. I have been made redundant. My husband has been made redundant twice. I also had to make some of my own staff redundant when I was an employer, so I have a good idea about what it feels like from all sides. Redundancy pay does not make up for the loss of a job, but the important thing is not just the process but being left with a feeling of dignity and respect. That is very, very important. Being laid off without notice and redundancy compensation is shocking. Not only does an employee\u2019s job disappear, leaving him or her without any feelings of self-worth, but there are still bills to pay, kids to feed, and the huge uncertainty of whether that employee can find another job, particularly in the current market. This bill is about giving families some breathing space, some time to pay the bills while they have that breathing space, and some time to find other work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ERedundancy can happen to anyone. It is not an issue for low-paid workers or higher-paid workers; it can happen across the board. We are talking about workers in all categories of occupations, from the low-paid and vulnerable, as I said, to the highly skilled. Just this week, I had an email from a worker who said to me: \u201CI work in IT, and I was made redundant due to the economic downturn. The employment contract I had did not have any redundancy clause in it. I was told this news 2 weeks before the Christmas break. Looking for work over that time was next to impossible.\u201D Now, after 4 months that worker does have a new job, but she is earning less than one-third of what she used to earn; she has lost her house and all her savings. We know that lay-offs happen to well-paid workers, too, but normally they get suitcases of money\u2014we can just look at former Telecom chief executive, Theresa Gattung. She got $1.8 million in a golden handshake. When Evan Davies left Skycity, he got $1.77 million. David Holdsworth from Hellaby Holdings got half a million dollars. Craig Norgate left Fonterra with about $1.5 million. So if it is good enough for them, I do not think that the very modest provisions in this bill are too much to ask for other workers, after years of service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240259c54444942309ab715d032b38ab3\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: What do MPs get?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3c0d444b54a4ff5ab2253831719873d\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is right. MPs, of course, get 3 months\u2019 salary, and other things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThis bill should go to the select committee for a proper discussion and consideration. We need to front up to the question of whether it is fair that Kiwi workers are being laid off through no fault of their own, and with no basic financial protection to tide them over in the hard times between jobs. This afternoon the Minister of Labour, the Hon Kate Wilkinson, shed crocodile tears when I asked her some questions and gave her some examples of the terrible circumstances of real New Zealand workers. She said that redundancy is never easy. That is true, but so far she and her Government have done nothing about it. Well, today they have a chance to ensure that there is a fair deal in hard times for Kiwi workers. I urge the Government to do the right thing today for Kiwi workers by supporting my bill to go to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWaiata\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022953ef0b04515447ebf63d232d45180c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022953ef0b04515447ebf63d232d45180c3\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E The Employment Relations (Statutory Minimum Redundancy Entitlements) Amendment Bill goes to the heart of what Labour stands for and what it tries to do to New Zealanders when it has any ability to set direction over somebody\u2019s life, or even a country, and the way it dictates employment relations. In the previous speech made by Darien Fenton, we heard the classic Labour mentality: the fear tactics, the inability of workers to determine their own future, and how workers need Labour to give them direction. That is the Labour mentality. Labour does not trust its own people. It cannot bet on people making their own decisions and setting their own directions in life. That is the heart of Labour. It wants to keep everybody down. It wants to be in control and keep the same rules so it can dictate what those people can achieve and their direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI think it is sad that Labour still does that in this House to New Zealanders. Labour does it to the people from whom it has tried to get support in past years. Labour uses the jealousy technique when talking about Telecom chief executive officers. It uses the fear tactics on ordinary Kiwis out there who want to get jobs and want to work hard. It is about time that Labour woke up and backed New Zealanders. The heart of that mentality was mentioned by the previous speaker, because she wants to make everybody a union member. That is Labour\u2019s purpose for this bill. Labour says that people in a union will get a redundancy payment. This is the heart of what Labour is doing in this legislation. It is not about workers\u2019 rights, it is not about helping workers, and it is not about providing for them in their time of need; it is about providing more union members. This is what it is about: Labour wants to make everybody a union member. Labour needs to look at its heart and soul and at the reality of what it is saying, instead of the rhetoric it brings to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI would like to see Labour stand up and deliver. It had 9 years in Government, but did it bring this legislation forward? No. Where was it? I ask where it came from, because Labour did not bring this legislation forward when it had the chance. Now that Labour is in Opposition, it says this bill is the best thing since sliced bread. Why is that? Labour knows the reality of this legislation. It is not good for New Zealanders and it is not good for Kiwis. That is why Labour did not bring this legislation to the House when it had the chance. Now Labour puts the blame on us. That is Labour\u2019s fear tactics. It says that National is the big, bad wolf that will not pass this bill. Labour had the chance, but it never passed the bill and it will never get that chance again because the public does not trust it. Labour\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ffea61c2fd849018147d7261cfa7ee7\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I thought you\u2019d finished.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4049cf12e1e4536a3420304ec68c447\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The only person finished is Trevor Mallard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party does not want to give people choice. At the moment we can give workers choice, and we do that because it is to the benefit of workers. If we look at this bill, we see that it sets minimum requirements. If there are minimum requirements, employers will stick to them. They will not give people more than the minimum, and this will hurt some employees who could have negotiated for more than that but who will be held to minimum requirements. Some of Labour\u2019s own people whom it believes it represents will be hurt by this legislation. They will be held to the minimum requirements, when they could have negotiated for something better. What is the matter with negotiating for something better? What is Labour\u2019s problem with that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis will have a huge cost on businesses. This will hurt workers because businesses will be reluctant to take people on, reluctant to promote people, and reluctant to give them any opportunity because employers fear the cost that this legislation would impose on them. This legislation will hurt the workers. Why would we want to pass a bill in the House that hurts workers in a time of a recession? Why would we want to do that when we have unemployment rates at the current rate? Why would we want to make it harder for people to get a job? There is no commercial reality in what the Labour Party is looking at here. If anything, it is taking a total disregard to the practicalities of the economic environment we are in. The Labour Party is ignoring how hard it is to get a job. It wants to make it harder for New Zealanders to get a job. Labour wants to make it harder for Kiwis to stay in work and to get promotions. That does not make any sense. It is not in the best interests of the people of our country or the future economic growth of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWhen we look at redundancy provisions, we see that they are already in place. There are personal grievance provisions under the Employment Relations Act. There are plenty of opportunities for people who feel they have difficulty in taking advantage of those kinds of legislative regimes. The Labour Party passed the Employment Relations Act when it was in Government, and said that it was a universal panacea for deciding employment relations. It is available now and it deals with those issues when required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ELet us look at the Public Advisory Group to the Minister of Labour on Restructuring and Redundancy, which the Labour Party said was the great source of directive for this bill. There are some downsides that the public advisory group noted, and I will read these out for members so that they are aware of them. The public advisory group felt that there would be disincentives to hire more staff, there would be reduced wages, there would be more temporary and contract workers, and there would be additional stress on businesses that are already struggling, which would result in further job losses. It felt that the bill would put business viability at risk and would reduce international competitiveness. Not one of those things, whether one is in National or Labour, would anyone want to see happen at the moment. Who wants to have disincentives to hiring more staff? Who wants reduced wages? Who wants more temporary workers? Who wants additional stress on businesses? Nobody does, but the Labour Party is willing to put legislation before the House that would achieve those things. That is not in the interest of New Zealanders or of our working people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI think it is sad that the Labour Party has to put this legislation up, come to this House, and take the emotions of New Zealanders and portray them as defenceless and unable to negotiate for themselves, so that the big red bus can come along and deliver to those people the safety and direction that they want. It is really sad. It demeans New Zealanders who are working hard and negotiating their future. It shows the mentality of the Labour Party. It does not trust our people, it does not trust individuals to negotiate, and it does not trust the unions because now it wants mandatory requirements. That is very sad in this time and this day. Labour does not take into account the economic reality that we now face. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe Transport and Industrial Relations Committee would hear this legislation if it passed its first reading, but I doubt it will. I am sure that most parties in this House will be of the opinion that this legislation is not in the best interests of workers or our country. It will go down in the history of a Labour Party that tried to control and hijack personal ambition, and that tried to direct people because it thought it knew best at a time when people needed to be given the strength and ability to take advantage of their opportunities. That is the difference between National and Labour. We bet on our people and we want them to succeed. We will not tell them how to live their lives through an institution that sets mandatory rules. We will provide the instruments for people to achieve their full purpose. With that, National will not support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5bbcaf3900a466888c022fcbdfe2088\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5bbcaf3900a466888c022fcbdfe2088\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E If the speech from the member who has just resumed his seat, David Bennett, were made outside the House, I think it could be described fairly as hypocritical. I know we cannot say that in here, but if it were, it would be. That member, after being here for 18 months, has an entitlement to a redundancy worth over $32,000. That member, after a very short period of time in this House, has a personal entitlement to well over $32,000 worth of redundancy, whether or not he runs at the next election. He could even retire at the next election, which would be a logical thing to do, and he would still get his redundancy money. He said that the most vulnerable people in New Zealand should not be allowed a pittance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI think, frankly, if there can be criticism of Darien Fenton\u2019s Employment Relations (Statutory Minimum Redundancy Entitlements) Amendment Bill, it is that it does not go far enough. The Public Advisory Group to the Minister of Labour on Restructuring and Redundancy came out with a unanimous recommendation supported by Business New Zealand. Business New Zealand consulted widely with its members and decided that the Government should consider the introduction of a statutory requirement for redundancy compensation and other entitlements incorporating the following features. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThose features are notice, compensation based on length of service, and a maximum level of statutory compensation\u2014this is what this does. It is doing what the employers asked for 2 years ago. Why did they ask for it? They know that having stability and loyalty from their workers is an important part of the employment arrangement. They know that having some stickiness in the labour market, having people wanting to stay with an employer, and having some sort of security if they stay there, with the likelihood of a job going forward and being less likely to be fired if there is a redundancy arrangement, are things that are good. It means that the incentives are on the employers to train people properly, to provide them with decent equipment, and to make them productive, rather than making them redundant as is far too often the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9c6284e7a7f442aa3ff7ceaca10ab55\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Now who\u2019s the hypocrite?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b82921326c0b428d8fa2a322d8767561\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: We will not talk to Mr Henare about how he left the trade union movement. That was a bit of a bottler on that occasion, a bit of a bottler, I say to Mr Henare. I do not know whether he got redundancy when he got the sack. [Interruption] Well, when he left Parliament he got $30,000 redundancy money and he came back. Did he pay it back? No, he did not. The Prime Minister said he would take the rough edges off the recession. He has; he has for his mates. He gave Bill English a free house when he was not entitled to one. He let Phil Heatley off when he cooked the books. But does he say to individual workers who are made redundant that they can have a minor redundancy payment? He says no. I think it is an outrage that this Government hates low-income workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f33f3f6660d4414b85d261ea133afa89\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member made reference to a member \u201Ccooking the books\u201D. I think that that is well out of order. I ask that he withdraw it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e009428021a84886bf284ad612fe7a32\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: The member who cooked the books is in the House. He did not take offence. He is the one who pleaded guilty to putting in false claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5c109d0dfc2456ea19df208de88d16c\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: I am not asking for a withdrawal because I am offended, I am asking for a withdrawal because it was way out of line with Standing Order 116.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a24aac42eb14bb1a064952d5de6fc5f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: There are two points. Firstly, a point of order has to be taken at the time that the offence was given. The comments were made quite some time back. It was not immediate. That is the first point that I make to you. I accept that the member was looking for the Standing Order, but the point of order should taken at the time. It is very hard to rewind the tape and remember the exact words that were said. That is why the Standing Orders say to do it immediately so that people can have very fresh in the mind the exact words that were said. The second point is that it is against the Standing Orders to accuse someone of breaking the law. But cooking the books is a step short of that\u2014it is. A lot of other words we come to are offensive, but others are not. This is a House of robust debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a13cb61dddba472b8df0ae40b64ea840\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Working families are facing hard times. This Government has a choice now to send a bill to a select committee to hear what people think. It does not have to guarantee now that it will support the bill at its later stages. All we want to know is that the Government is prepared to listen to a wide view from people. That is not a big thing. We are not asking for a definite support for the later stages. But we are asking for a relatively lazy Government to sit in a select committee and to listen\u2014to sit in a select committee and to listen to the cases, to listen the way that the employers did at the public advisory committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7531adb351e4f31849d10d1db452722\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7531adb351e4f31849d10d1db452722\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak to the Employment Relations (Statutory Minimum Redundancy Entitlements) Amendment Bill. I will make some initial comments about the Government\u2019s priorities for creating jobs. Creating jobs is a top priority for this Government. We are committed to a sustainable economic recovery and to creating more jobs for New Zealanders. The Government\u2019s economic policy during the global recession has been focused on this commitment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe Government has taken steps to keep people in employment and to assist them when they lose their jobs. We have put in place policies that encourage economic growth, and those policies are built on exports and investment rather than on Government spending or consumer spending. Last year the Government\u2019s small-business relief package was designed to help lighten the load of small and medium sized business, which employ many New Zealanders. That plan was about improving the environment for business, and, therefore, jobs and growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EA number of members\u2019 bills on employment law have been brought to the House. Some have passed into law, others have not. Suffice it to say that National believes employment law must expand job opportunities and treat all parties fairly, protecting both employees and employers. The purpose of this bill is to insert a new part into the Employment Relations Act, providing for minimum statutory redundancy entitlements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003ECurrently, if an employee is made redundant, the employee\u2019s entitlements are governed by his or her employment agreement. If there is nothing about redundancy in a person\u2019s employment agreement, the default position is that there is no requirement to pay redundancy compensation. Employers and employees are free to agree to redundancy provisions in their employment agreements. As well, the law also provides that redundancy occurs only when a position has become genuinely redundant. Employers are not able to make a worker redundant on a whim. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003ESpecifically, this bill outlines that all employees who have worked for more than 12 months are entitled to redundancy compensation, and the bill outlines some requirements around that particular point. National will be opposing this bill. We are concerned that statutory redundancy provisions act as a barrier to employers taking on new staff. That would work against the Government\u2019s commitment to creating jobs and fostering economic growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe Government acknowledges that during the recession, redundancies have been of real concern. In late 2008 the Government launched its ReStart package, which provided for workers made redundant, helping them back into work. This was set up quickly to help provide breathing space for those hardest hit by redundancy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe issue of statutory redundancy was assessed in the last term of Parliament, in great detail, in the report of the Public Advisory Group to the Minister of Labour on Restructuring and Redundancy. Interestingly, 14 of the 22 submitters supported the status quo. There are negatives, which were noted by the report, and they are concerning and numerous. Members of the group were concerned that there would be disincentives to hire more staff and that wages could be reduced. They envisaged that there would be more temporary and contract workers. Importantly, they were concerned that by putting greater pressure on businesses, jobs would be lost and business viability could be jeopardised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EClearly, the previous Government was concerned by these findings, because it did not go ahead and implement a statutory requirement for redundancy. The previous Government had 9 years to do so, and it did not. That is very, very revealing. It had its opportunity when it introduced the Employment Relations Act 2000. It failed to do so, and that speaks volumes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe Government, like the public advisory group, is concerned that mandatory redundancy provisions will destroy jobs and stop employers from hiring new staff. That would be totally counter to its commitment to create jobs. The Government is also concerned about the significant cost to business, which is not insignificant. We consider that this proposal would make redundancy unaffordable for most businesses, and there would be a real risk of businesses closing as a result. We will be opposing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u00220f41266d95a143b2be8c82f542e0dd22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f41266d95a143b2be8c82f542e0dd22\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party will be strongly supporting the Employment Relations (Statutory Minimum Redundancy Entitlements) Amendment Bill. If it is passed\u2014and I hope it is\u2014it will correct a major injustice for workers in this country: being laid off without any redundancy. I think that David Bennett conceded there was a problem, but he said that under this legislation employers would stick to the minimum rather than giving more than that to workers in redundancy. However, the current problem is not that employers may stick to a legislative minimum, which does not exist; the problem is that they do not give any redundancy at all in many cases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWe have a recent statement from the National Distribution Union, referring to a dozen workers who were laid off by T A Macalister Ltd without any redundancy at all, because of a downturn in business. Warehouse supervisor Rob Highsted who was laid off said: \u201CI feel bitter,\u201D. \u201CThe warehouse in this company has been my baby - I was proud at how well I made it work, then they just say \u2018piss off.\u2019 Its 20 years of my life down the toilet.\u201D Mr Highsted said another couple with 40 years\u2019 service between them had also been shown the door, without so much as a thankyou from the company. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThat is the problem that we face, and that is why it is important to have a minimum of 4 weeks\u2019 notice, 4 weeks\u2019 remuneration after 1 year, and 2 weeks\u2019 additional remuneration for each subsequent year of continuous employment, up to a maximum entitlement of 26 weeks\u2019 remuneration. That is consistent both with longstanding Green Party policy and, as has been pointed out, with the report of the Public Advisory Group to the Minister of Labour on Restructuring and Redundancy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI will tell members why we have redundancy. One point is that it is a recognition by the employer, who has benefited from the labour of workers\u2014often over many years, as in the case I mentioned\u2014of the value of that work. It says \u201CHere, have something, because, unfortunately, we have to make you redundant.\u201D Secondly, it is to reduce the suffering that workers face when they are laid off. The unemployment benefit is not in itself sufficient, and there is a qualifying period for it, as well. That is particularly important now, when couples who work are mortgaged up to the hilt. If one person in the relationship loses his or her job, they cannot afford to pay the mortgage, the house goes down the tube\u2014all kinds of things happen. There is huge suffering if people do not have any continuity of income while they look for another job. The third point is that it gives a breathing space to find another job\u2014not just another job, but a job in one\u2019s specialist area, if at all possible. It gives someone the time to look around to find an appropriate job. Often the problem is that workers are very highly specialised. They are geared to one job, and it takes a while either to train for something else or to look around for something that is the equivalent of what they were doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI myself was made redundant when I was working at the Gear meatworks in 1981 and it closed down. We got some redundancy pay, but I know that it was very difficult for many of the workers there who were highly specialised knife hands, and who had spent decades working as knife hands. Many of them became very depressed, and their families became depressed, because they did not have other work in their specialist area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThat relates to another issue raised in the public advisory group\u2019s report: the need to give plenty of notice of the termination of employment. In this bill 4 weeks\u2019 notice of redundancy is required, but there is also the need to look a bit further out. If something is happening to an industry, if a change is going on and there might be redundancies, there is a need to have a whole transition to new employment. That is why it is important to have adult education and not to cut night classes, which are often a way for people to make the transition to a new job. Unfortunately, this Government has cut night classes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWe want to be able to ratify ILO Convention 158, and it is important that we pass measures like this so that we can do that. We do not want to be in breach of international conventions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe question is not that somehow workers will suffer through redundancy payments undermining full-time employment, as David Bennett claims. In fact, I think redundancy provisions are a deterrent against employers laying people off; it adds a bit of restraint, which is good. The idea that redundancy provisions somehow stop employers from employing people is a bit silly, too. How many employers think that in 3 years they might have to lay off employees and pay them 8 weeks\u2019 redundancy, so therefore they will not employ them? That is not the way things would play out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7b1ec3089b549afa797e8b7f08d0384\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7b1ec3089b549afa797e8b7f08d0384\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare. I was checking out the website hardtimes.org.nz the other day. This website is pushing for a fair deal in hard times. It calls for people to sign a petition, hold a workplace meeting, or just to read the real-life stories of people who have copped a bad deal in redundancy. It sets out pretty much all the reasons why any decent citizen should support a minimum level of redundancy protection for all workers. What is being proposed here ain\u2019t nothing flash: 4 weeks\u2019 notice; and 4 weeks\u2019 redundancy for the first year, and 2 weeks after that, up to 26 weeks. But the key focus of the bill is that a redundancy agreement should be part of every employment contract; that if we are really committed to a fair deal in hard times, then everyone should be entitled to basic redundancy protection to help them get by between jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EI do not know whether I buy into the exact details of the bill. I can recall a couple of years ago, when we were pushing for a minimum wage, being rudely reminded by my wife that if I was going to talk about a minimum wage, then I had to make sure that my kura, Te Rangi\u0101niwaniwa, and the local iwi radio stations operating under Te Hiku Media, were actually paying according to the standards that I was preaching. So I had to have a sit-down with the bosses and go through the numbers. I found out that, in both cases, we were paying better than most other local businesses, but that we were not actually paying the minimum wage in certain cases. However, after a review of finances, some careful consideration, and some creative thinking, both Te Rangi\u0101niwaniwa and Te Hiku Media were able to make some readjustments to ensure that everyone was being paid at least the minimum wage. I can tell members that that is no mean feat in a town that lies in the heart of the country\u2019s highest M\u0101ori unemployment zone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThat is the challenge I have with this bill; I have not yet had a chance to get the folks at Te Rangi\u0101niwaniwa or Te Hiku Media to run the numbers on this redundancy proposal, to see whether we can actually operate on the basis found in this bill. But certainly the principle of workers having redundancy protection to tide them over between jobs is a sound one, and one that both I and the M\u0101ori Party are more than happy to support. We support the Employment Relations Act 2000, we support amendments to make it more worker-friendly, and we support pay and employment equity legislation. So we certainly support the intention of this bill to provide all workers with the redundancy support to tide them over the tough times. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddeba29cf64b4525bc5183ea663772c6\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Hone Harawira. [Interruption] Oh, sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u00223e9f7dd5f766423b894448e42c39fa2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e9f7dd5f766423b894448e42c39fa2f\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I know that we all seem to look alike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f5cfb67eb394351b75ce27871406b0c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the Hon Tau Henare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222acb05588c64228b60655afd2d08186\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: That is something that we have been fighting against for a long, long time\u2014but we will get there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022417dc60e211847fe8193fe8f64560dd7\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Who\u2019s the biggest loser?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7f4d6955a9b4aeda17d54af14370b6e\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if we want to go down that track. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI want to start my k\u014Drero tonight with this quote from March 2000: \u201CThis bill marks a new era in industrial relations in New Zealand; an era that will be distinguished by a commitment to the fundamental principle that underlines all parts of this legislation\u2014namely, that it is better to work together cooperatively for the common good in the workplace, than to work in opposition to each other.\u201D That quote is from the then Minister of Labour, the Hon Margaret Wilson, in the Employment Relation Bill\u2019s first reading on 16 March 2000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003ENowhere in that bill was there any mention at all of a redundancy clause\u2014and that was in 2000. In 2009 there was an anniversary: the ninth anniversary of Labour taking office. Between 2000 and 2009 not one of the Labour members, including the former Ministers and including the backbenchers, ever raised the issue. Outside of this House, that would have been called hypocrisy, to coin a phrase of Trevor Mallard. Those listening outside would have called it hypocrisy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThe funny thing about the Fabians\u2014there is always a funny thing about the Fabians and the Fabian Society\u2014is that they never do anything when they are in power. But when they are in Opposition, they love to tell the Government what it should do. The Public Advisory Group to the Minister of Labour on Restructuring and Redundancy was established back then, but when I was a union member we used to fight for this sort of thing. We did not go cap in hand to ask the Government to do it. We did not even go cap in hand to the Labour Party and ask its members do it. We used to go and fight for it, unlike the pussies that the Labour Party has today. They think that the easiest way is to just front up to the Government and say: \u201CPlease sir, no sir, can I have three bags full, sir?\u201D. That is their modus operandi; it is not about going to workers and saying: \u201CListen, what we need to do is organise. We need to talk, if we may, to the employer. Let us fight for something that we really believe in.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EWhat we see in the House tonight is nothing more than Darien Fenton and her mates in the Service and Foodworkers Union grandstanding, because they know full well that they cannot deliver on this bill, the Employment Relations (Statutory Minimum Redundancy Entitlements) Amendment Bill. Although they cannot deliver on it, somehow it makes them feel good. Like the do-gooders in the Fabian Society, they are a pack of pussy do-gooders. Quite frankly, I am over the moon. I am ecstatic that this Government is not going to buy into any of that Fabian rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022 data-id=\u0022340f2853b94e4f7bbd8e0abd58124060\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022340f2853b94e4f7bbd8e0abd58124060\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E This is an impassioned debate. We have just heard an impassioned speech from the Hon Tau Henare, and earlier this afternoon we heard from David Bennett. This is an economic debate. It is a debate about employment. It is a debate about redundancy and redundancy provisions, and those things are very, very important. I think Mr Bennett impressed us all this afternoon with his knowledge of economic theory\u2014who could not be impressed. I was very impressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EMr Bennett said to us that this measure would be a huge cost on business and that businesses would be reluctant to take on workers. Mr Bennett asked why we would want to make it harder for people to get a job, which is a very good question to ask. Mr Bennett said that this bill imposes costs on employers and that it would make them reluctant to take on new employees. Mr Bennett asked a very reasonable question: why would Labour members want to make it hard for Kiwis to get a job? It was a very reasonable question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EWhy would National want to make it hard for Kiwis to get a job? If National members believe that imposing a compulsory redundancy provision on workers would have a negative impact on employment, why do they believe that imposing the costs of an emissions trading scheme and artificially increasing the price of electricity will not have the same impact on jobs? Mr Bennett asked who would want to place additional stress on business. Clearly, it is the National Government, because it is prepared to impose extra costs on businesses and exporters, and it wants to do that at a time when all our major trading partners are backing away from an emissions trading scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EJust last Tuesday the Prime Minister of Australia, Kevin Rudd, announced that Australia would be delaying the introduction of an emissions trading scheme until 2013. The United States does not have an emissions trading scheme, China does not have an emissions trading scheme. But what does National do? It continues to perpetuate the myth that our farmers and exporters will not be affected. The Minister of Agriculture, the Hon David Carter, has been telling farmers at field days that agriculture will not come into the emissions trading scheme until 2015. I call on Mr Carter, the Minister of Agriculture, to tell the truth to farmers. He knows that Meat and Wool New Zealand has said that the cost of the emissions trading scheme to dairy farmers will be about $10,200. There will be redundancies in the farming industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EMeat and Wool New Zealand is telling farmers that under the emissions trading scheme they will have to start paying extra for electricity, petrol, and the emission costs of their dairy factories, but National is in denial. The Employment Relations (Statutory Minimum Redundancy Entitlements) Amendment Bill is an economic bill. It is about redundancies. We should be asking how we can stop redundancies, how we can recover from the recession, and how we can reduce our unemployment rate of 7.5 percent. The answer is to put in place economic policies that will create employment. We should ask ourselves why there is a need for Darien Fenton\u2019s bill. How do we avoid that need? Do we have economic policies that make it easier for businesses to employ people and for us to trade our way out of recession? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EI will leave the last word to the Hon John Key, the Prime Minister of New Zealand. Just 3 weeks before the last general election he said we should not be a world leader because that would come at the expense of our economy. He was obviously thinking of Darien Fenton\u2019s bill and about the consequences of unemployment. He went on to say that he could see no sense in New Zealand exporting emissions and jobs to another part of the world. In the face of overwhelming change in the environment for emissions trading legislation and costs, and when all our major trading partners have pulled away from an emissions trading scheme\u2014just last Tuesday Australia announced it was delaying its emissions trading scheme by 4 years\u2014the National Government is charging ahead with it. National has its head in the sand. The Hon David Carter, the Minister of Agriculture, told farmers in Waikato this morning that we will proceed with the scheme. How stupid is that! I can understand why Darien Fenton thinks we need a bill of this nature.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce10dda54d9447cfb3b49775377daf3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce10dda54d9447cfb3b49775377daf3a\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will start my short contribution today by congratulating Darien Fenton on the success she has had in getting her bill out of the ballot, and on the effort she has gone to in doing something through this bill that if the House were to pass it, would represent us as doing the right thing. The bill implements the recommendations of the Public Advisory Group to the Minister of Labour on Restructuring and Redundancy, which reported back in 2008. That group recommended that it was time to put in place a modest entitlement, on a universal basis, for qualifying employees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI practised in the area of employment law for many years before I came into this House, and not only is this bill a decent thing to do; it is a smart thing to do from the point of view of making the law certain. I will take the House through some of the developments that have been seen in the law in this area to explain what I mean by that. There has never been a statutory obligation in this country to pay redundancy compensation to an employee dismissed through redundancy, and that absence of a statutory obligation, at the time when we last went through major unemployment in this country back in the 1990s, caused major disruptions in employment law. It was not an issue during most of the term of the last Government, so it was interesting to hear Mr Henare\u2019s contribution on that point. There was no need to legislate for redundancy in that area, because we had full employment. But, guess what, the House needs to remember that we are not in those times now. We are now in times where the rate of unemployment is over 7 percent, and this issue will have to be confronted by the courts again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIt is timely for the House to recall what the courts did in the absence of a statutory redundancy entitlement the last time we faced high and unlikely-to-decrease unemployment. I will describe some of the legal cases. First of all, from about the early 1980s onwards the courts looked at what used to be called the dispute of rights provisions in the labour law that prevailed at the time. There ended up being a number of cases over whether the dispute of rights provisions in the legislation could be used to confer a right on workers to redundancy compensation, when their employment contract, award, or agreement did not expressly call for that entitlement, or, if the contract did so, it did not specify how much redundancy compensation\u2014or notice, even\u2014they would be entitled to. Employers tied themselves up in knots trying to work out what the law should be in any particular case where an employment instrument mentioned redundancy but did not go further than that\u2014it did not define an entitlement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe courts did not give any clear guidance as to whether there was such an entitlement. In some cases, like the Wellington Hospital Board case in the early 1980s, the court indicated that, yes, there was such an entitlement. Then there was the Cornhill Insurance case, the Westland Catchment Board case, the Timbercraft case, and, finally, Westland again, this time in the Court of Appeal. All of these cases gave inconsistent results as to whether an employer had to pay redundancy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EParliament took the matter in hand when it passed the Employment Contracts Act. Clause 34 of the Employment Contracts Bill, which became section 46 of the Act, did away with the ability to use the disputes process to get a redundancy compensation deal. But the courts were actually a step ahead of Parliament, because unemployment was still high and rising at that time, and 8 days before the introduction of the Employment Contracts Act, the Labour Court, in a decision called G N Hale and Sons Ltd v Wellington Caretakers IUOW\u2014and in its second judgment in that case, following the matter being remitted from the Court of Appeal\u2014decided that the personal grievance jurisdiction in the relevant labour law could be used to give a redundancy entitlement. All those same problems that arose under the disputes law applied for a number of years. Although, yes, it was deemed fair by the courts to pay compensation, there was never any clear guidance as to how much and in what circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EWe have the same provisions that applied then in our labour law at the moment, as far as personal grievances are concerned. The test is whether it is fair in all the circumstances to dismiss somebody. If the courts decide to swing the pendulum again, and decide there is an entitlement in the common law that redundancy ought to be paid to dismissed workers in certain circumstances, we will be back in that same position. No doubt this Parliament will swing in under this mean-spirited Government and just abolish the entitlement, but would it not be better to do the right thing: to support Darien Fenton\u2019s bill and provide a modest entitlement on redundancy to workers dismissed for that reason?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u0022394e72a9a8094f8197c489f6ad25a6b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022394e72a9a8094f8197c489f6ad25a6b0\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Let me start by acknowledging my colleague and friend Darien Fenton. As Mr Chauvel has said, Darien Fenton has done a lot of work on the Employment Relations (Statutory Minimum Redundancy Entitlements) Amendment Bill, and for many years she has promoted the rights of workers in this country. I think that is worth putting on the record of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI have been appalled at the contributions from members on the other side of the House. Mr Bennett went on about mandatory rules\u2014mandatory this, mandatory that. He said the bill would undermine workers\u2019 rights. I do not think there is an understanding of the importance of having in place strong minimum rights that provide guidance and the base on which we build. New Zealand has international obligations to provide a strong mandatory framework. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EIt has been fascinating to hear some members opposite trying to rewrite history. Mr Henare gave a very good analysis, except he forgot to mention what happened as a result of the Employment Contracts Act. He did not say that it ripped out the award system, which had provided quite significant redundancy coverage for workers in this country and left us in a situation where there was no statutory right and rights were limited to what people negotiated in individual or collective agreements. They negotiated their own rights. None of that was mentioned. Then we heard all that commentary about do-gooders but, frankly, if promoting workers\u2019 rights and ensuring protections for workers in hard times is being a do-gooder, I am proud to be one; so are my colleagues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Employment Relations Act to provide minimum statutory entitlements for employees in the event of dismissal for redundancy. I reiterate the point already made that this bill was a unanimous recommendation of the public advisory group on restructuring and redundancy. Employer representatives and union representatives understood the importance of having these protections, and at times of record job losses 80 percent of New Zealanders having no protection against redundancy is just plain wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EMembers opposite still have the opportunity to do the right thing tonight for the 80 percent of workers in our country who do not have a right to redundancy protection. Redundancy entitlements will not replace a lost job but will certainly help workers, and their families, in the period until they have a new job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI was interested today to hear the Minister of Finance say we are through the recession, but he should tell that to the 170,000 New Zealanders who are unemployed\u20147.3 percent compared with Australia\u2019s 5 percent. Many more people are underemployed and are struggling to make ends meet. In the area of Auckland I work in, Maungakiekie, I talk to people who are struggling because they have lost their jobs, lost hours of work, or had little or no pay increases over recent times and are facing rising prices. We need to do something to send a message that this Parliament recognises that we are in hard times and that there should be minimum protections against redundancy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThis bill is particularly important at this time, but this Government has failed New Zealanders through hard economic times. It has failed in this recession to respond appropriately. Let us look at the rate of unemployment. It is not about just numbers; it is about people who are without jobs and are struggling to make ends meet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThere is a lack of empathy on the other side of the House, and there is certainly a lack of action. I compare that to just about every other country in the OECD, where active attention has been paid to job creation and the protection of workers\u2019 rights\u2014but not by this Government. This bill is about rebuilding a minimum code. This bill is about rebuilding after 9 years of a Labour Government where much was done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280171e4bfd4048c69ca7d619a1b258ba\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: We had 9 years of mismanagement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fad5c9c7e65f4595a8fbbffb93ab4043\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT\u003C/span\u003E: I tell Ms Lee that in those 9 years Labour made regular increases to the minimum wage and put in place a number of employment protections. So members opposite should not try to rewrite history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EMany New Zealanders think there is a right to redundancy. New Zealand workers are, in fact, the cheapest and easiest in the world to sack. Is that something that members opposite are proud of? Are they proud that New Zealand workers are among the cheapest and easiest to sack in the OECD? That is not something they should be proud of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThis bill is about people. As others have said, it is about people who lose their jobs, who struggle, and who have to deal with the emotional consequences as well as the financial consequences. I urge members opposite to take this bill seriously and do the right thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u002220cc79142ab5499e81d27a0c52b893d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220cc79142ab5499e81d27a0c52b893d4\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, I want to thank the Green Party and the M\u0101ori Party, and, of course, my colleagues in the Labour Party, for their contributions and support. I appreciate very much their understanding that this is a situation of basic fairness; that the Kiwi way is to treat people fairly, particularly when they are vulnerable. I also put on record my thanks to the many people who have been in touch to tell me their stories or to offer their support. I acknowledge all of the unions and organisations that have backed the redundancy protection bill and who will continue to fight, alongside Labour, to ensure that this issue will be on the agenda at the next election. I mention them by name: the Council of Trade Unions, the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union, the National Distribution Union, my own union the Service and Food Workers Union, the Dairy Workers Union, the Unite union, the Rail and Maritime Transport Union, Finsec, the Maritime Union, the Public Service Association, the Nurses Organisation, the New Zealand Educational Institute Te Riu Roa, and the Wellington People\u2019s Centre. I want Government members to know that together these organisations represent 350,000 workers, plus their families. Today National and ACT have sent a strong message to all of those people that National and ACT do not care about them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI also respond to the pathetic defence from members opposite who say that Labour had 9 years. I mentioned in my first speech on the bill that Labour actually did an awful lot about redundancy protection but it was not a priority, because people were not losing their jobs in the droves that they are now. For insolvency situations we made redundancy protection a priority. We also cut the tax rate on redundancy payments and we set up the advisory group, because we also want to do things based on good evidence. That is what the advisory group was about. Members opposite should not go on about Labour having 9 years, because we did a lot, there was a lot to do, and there will always be more to do. The fact is the Labour Party has more ideas and will take them to the next election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThis Government has failed working people again. It has failed to take the harsh edges off the recession as John Key promised it would. Wages are in decline, unemployment is skyrocketing, and workers cannot look forward to any support from this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWhen this bill was drawn from the ballot last year I deliberately postponed its first reading. I wanted to make sure that the bill was not taken lightly by political parties, but unfortunately the speech made by David Bennett shows that the Government has utter contempt for the issues facing workers today. I wanted to make sure the bill was not taken lightly; I wanted to give National and ACT, and other parties, a real chance to show that they were prepared to listen to working people and their families when they say that not enough is being done for workers facing redundancy. Actually, I do not think they bothered, even though more than 120,000 of these postcards that I am holding up went to John Key\u2019s office. I know they would have gone in the rubbish bin, but what about the cost to workers? We can talk about the cost to business but what about the cost to workers and the cost to their families? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ERedundancy entitlements are about recognising that the loss of a job is not the fault of workers; they provided their labour in good faith to an employer and they have a risk of not finding a comparable job. We have had examples in the debate today. It also recognises the impact generally on the earning capacity of the worker. Redundancy entitlements can also act as a deterrent; I think some of my colleagues have referred to this. An employer might otherwise make a worker redundant without due consideration. For example, I am aware that many of the employers in the 9-day working fortnight programme\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddc2e224938d4074a4914f650c11dd19\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022420bfc8c62cd4b4e971b1c8eb5bb6cd2\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I know. Many of them joined that. The cost of redundancy, of making their workers redundant, made them sign up to it. It acted as a deterrent. It was not John Key\u2019s brilliance; it was the fact that something stood in the way of them being able to just send people down the road. I have noted that in the last year personal grievances in relation to redundancy have doubled. That is the consequence of not having certainty in the law around redundancy. The cleaners who work in this Parliament have no redundancy payments in their agreement. They have a specific clause that says that they do not get anything. This is legal in the current situation, and common. Yet all of us in this Chamber can be made redundant at every election, but we get paid 3 months\u2019 salary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002207c58634a378432881d429b990aa8bda\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Employment Relations (Statutory Minimum Redundancy Entitlements) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u00227425b9e2626b45e5a09a8c53cd877042\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227425b9e2626b45e5a09a8c53cd877042\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to table a redundancy notice to the Hon John Key saying that he will receive no notice and no redundancy pay because the law says he is not entitled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229421c3a2a22a4b5e8a23b4d522a2a8ee\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not an acceptable document for tabling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228551e55131d941629e148838321b2d8f\u0022\u003ESmart Meters (Consumer Choice) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dbe86b1e00df48ef93a10b4f97d49682\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022169d78d9212a4476902931cd570b841d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022169d78d9212a4476902931cd570b841d\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Smart Meters (Consumer Choice) Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be considered by the Commerce Committee. The genesis of this bill is, in part, a response to a report published in June last year by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, Dr Jan Wright, entitled Smart electricity meters: How households and the environment can benefit. This bill would give effect to the recommendations of the commissioner. It would do that by ensuring that all meters have functionality enabling them to automatically control loads and talk to smart appliances, and by requiring installers to give consumers the choice to have real-time information about their electricity use and variable tariffs, so that they can make use of that function if they wish to. The bill would also ensure that a variety of tariffs is available to consumers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIt is known that new meters are currently being installed in households as part of a replacement programme for very old equipment. The meters being installed through that programme are being described as smart. Although those meters are indeed capable of adding value by providing services useful to power companies, they are not capable of delivering much of anything to consumers. This bill seeks to remedy that imbalance by ensuring that meters that are installed are genuinely smart, and will provide choices and benefits to consumers as well as to the providers of electricity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe much less smart meters being rolled out now allow power companies to use them for remote meter reading. They avoid the need for meter readers to go into homes. That cuts costs for the companies, but that saving may or may not be passed on to consumers. The meters also allow companies to data mine about the consumer\u2019s user profile and consumption patterns, and enable remote disconnection or reconnection of supply. Although those are useful benefits for the providers, the same meters\u2014the same hardware, in effect\u2014could be installed quite simply and cheaply with the capability to enable consumers to manage their power load to minimise cost on a differential or cost-reflective tariff. As well as saving households money, which is one of the core features and intentions of this bill, that would benefit the nation by making better use of installed energy-generating capacity, by delaying the need for extra generation, and by reducing carbon dioxide emissions from coal and gas stations, because they would be required to run less often. The key difference between what is currently being rolled out and what we would like to see rolled out is the addition of a home area network capability, enabling the functions that can deliver sustained demand reduction and reduce cost to the consumers through load shedding and load shifting. The cost of ensuring that meters have this capability when they are installed is very low. To retrofit them later, as has been proposed by some, would be much, much more expensive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe Electricity Commission was charged with investigating whether the roll-out of advanced metering infrastructure\u2014effectively, smart meters\u2014should be regulated, and it came back with a recommendation that \u201Cit is not necessary to extensively regulate the roll-out \u2026\u201D of those meters, as \u201Cthe benefits of regulation do not outweigh the costs.\u201D We have no quarrel with that part of the commission\u2019s findings, to the extent that the regulation proposed in this bill is deliberately very light-handed, doing only enough to secure the necessary degree of standardisation and to ensure consumers are offered the opportunity to exploit the benefits of the technology. The Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, in a briefing note signed by the heads of a number of consumer-owned and council-owned lines\u2014or distribution\u2014companies, advocated for a somewhat more stringent approach to regulation. The companies saw the installation of smart meters as a significant building block towards a smart grid, which is already an objective in Australia, in many European countries, and in parts of the US. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe Electricity Commission notes that one of the primary drivers of smart meter installation nationally is to enable load management, in particular allowing peak loads to be manipulated and levelled, thus reducing the pressure on that critical peak-load capacity. The commission\u2019s report notes also that \u201CNew Zealand has had an effective centralised load management system (the ripple control system) in place since the 1950s.\u201D, but goes on to concede that \u201Cthe ability to enable more controllable load does make AMI systems attractive.\u201D\u2014considerably more attractive than the very old technology. The ripple control system we have is a very blunt instrument, a one-trick pony, and the new technology would allow for a much more comprehensive array of load management options. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EClause 4 of the bill states: \u201CThe purpose of this Act is to empower domestic consumers to better manage their electricity use by requiring providers of smart meters to inform the domestic consumers of their options when upgrading to smart meters, and setting minimum requirements for the provision of smart meters.\u201D It is important to note that nothing in this bill obliges any consumer to adopt any of the new options. There is absolutely no obligation on consumers to accept or take on any extra cost; they simply must be given a choice. The cost to the company of offering that information at the time of installation would be negligible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EOne of the options a company would be required to offer to a customer is an in-home display\u2014effectively a small screen inside the home that displays in real time the current tariff in cents per kilowatt, the current rate of consumption, and the current use for the day in consumed dollars and in kilowatt hours. It is a very simple read-out that can sit conveniently in the home. We know from experience that, where these have been trialled in business premises and domestic situations, such a real-time display works as a constant reminder to consumers of their consumption and is a prompt for them to turn off unnecessary, non-essential consumption at that moment. The units are a really effective mechanism for initiating and embedding long-term behaviour changes in energy use and conservation. That will benefit the individual consumer, and, again, will reduce demand, particularly for peak generation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe bill requires retailers to offer to consumers the choice of a cost-reflective tariff, an average-price tariff, or a low fixed-charge tariff. Those who are currently on the low fixed-charge tariff will be able to stay on that tariff if that is their preference. It is entirely in a consumer\u2019s hands. The cost-reflective tariff is a tariff where the customer pays a different rate according to the time of the day the units are consumed. Those types of tariffs can be designed to closely signal the network cost\u2014the generation cost\u2014of the electricity being consumed at any given time. The average-price tariff is simply a tariff where the consumer pays the same fixed rate for each unit of electricity consumed, reflecting the average cost of generation across the 24-hour period. The low fixed-charge tariff is an average price offered to people who consume low amounts of electricity, as defined in the regulations. That spread of options will allow householders to select the model that best provides for their needs, whether they have large households with a relatively high demand\u2014as with growing young families, perhaps\u2014or small, low-user households, such as with older couples, who have lower needs and a lower demand for electricity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EAll we are seeking to do with this bill is to combine available, well-proven technology with some options being offered to consumers, to enable them to make intelligent choices and so reduce their costs. The bill is appropriately titled a consumer choice bill. It suggests we use the readily available technology. In that way, we can reduce the need for add-in generation, with all the social, environmental, and financial costs inevitably associated with that. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022 data-id=\u00224c20764e5bc645fb965bede618fd0eef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c20764e5bc645fb965bede618fd0eef\u0022\u003EAARON GILMORE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Members might remember the issue of VHS versus Beta in the 1980s. They might remember Microsoft\u2019s Internet Explorer versus Netscape in the 1990s. They might remember the recent thing about the Sony Blu-ray Disc versus Toshiba in the 2000s. The issue of smart meters in the Smart Meters (Consumer Choice) Bill is a very similar situation. All aspects of technology that are common today have eventually become very well adopted. But in their time, particularly in the early stages of technology like smart metering, a lot of confusion existed about whether we had jumped to the right standard of technology. That is why National will not be supporting this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EIt has some good aspects; I must commend the member for bringing it to the House. I will touch on some aspects of the technology in the bill, but I believe that the bill will compel New Zealand to make a choice today on a set of standards and technologies that is not quite there yet\u2014an idea whose time has not yet come. I will touch on that. People have a lot of confusion about what a smart meter is. Recently in Canterbury, Meridian Energy has been rolling out what are called by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment \u201Calmost smart meters\u201D. Some people call them smart meters; in other places they would not be called smart meters. It depends on people\u2019s situations. In other countries, particularly in Europe and even more particularly in Italy, significant numbers of smart meters have been rolled out\u2014tens of millions of them. But very different standards exist across the world. Recently in other parts of the world\u2014like Germany, the United Kingdom, and Canada\u2014we have seen the roll-out of smart meters. Nearly every single one of those countries has rolled out a different form of technology and a different set of standards, and that is one of the issues National has with this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EAs the previous speaker, David Clendon, talked about, we have seen that New Zealand was a world leader in what was called ripple control mechanisms. In fact, in the 1950s and 1960s we were one of the first countries in the world to bring in ripple control. That mechanism allows consumers to control their hot water load, and it was a very useful hot water load management system. New Zealanders have used that technology and sold it in many places. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EThere is an issue with metering generally in New Zealand. Many of the ferrous iron - type meters that have been in place since the 1950s are coming to the end of their natural lives. That is why there has been some interesting debate about the issue of smart metering today. In Christchurch, where I live, Meridian Energy has made the call to put in place metering technology that will allow automatic meter reading. It will stop meter readers from having to go to consumers\u2019 doors to read the meters on the wall. That is a good step. The technology for that is very well-developed and has been used very well across the US and in other parts of the world. We think that technology makes sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EA lot of work has been put into these issues of smart metering, and particularly into the issue of how smart a metering device should be. I think we would all agree that in a perfect world we would have devices in our homes\u2014for example, for our fridge or freezer\u2014that would monitor the electricity use and turn an appliance off and on to take into account the load that might exist. I think we will get there, and that in our lifetime that will occur, but we are not there yet. Having the ability to jump to put in the meters what is called a home area network chip would cost a significant amount today. I accept that the marginal cost today would be quite low, relative to the expected benefits of that mechanism, but the reality is that consumers cannot bear that cost. That chip might cost a consumer anywhere up to an additional $200 to install today, but the benefit to that consumer of putting in place an in-house display on the meter, in the case of that chip, would be effectively zero. National does not feel that that is an appropriate thing to do at this time, when people have been facing record price rises in electricity over the last few years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EWe believe that one of the things we have to think about is how we get this technology right to bring it through into the market. The Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment wrote a report recently on metering. That report has been considered by the Electricity Commission and the Minister of Energy and Resources, and some guidelines have been put in place around smart metering. I am pleased to say that there has been some success in the roll-out of some of those smart meters. Some would say that that is not enough, but it is a start. Given what we have seen so far in the technology, I think that it is a good start. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EI understand that there is some sort of fear over this issue, and particularly over the home area network chip. I spoke at the start about the issue of VHS versus Beta, Netscape versus Internet Explorer, and Sony Blu-ray Disc versus Toshiba. In each of those cases there was a winner and a loser in the field of technology. If we make a decision to jump to one standard today, when it is actually not clear whether that will be the dominant standard in the world, we will end up incurring a whole lot of unnecessary costs for the consumer. It would cost a couple of hundred bucks extra for the consumer, but that is basically a waste of money if the consumer has to spend that money again some time in the future. We do not think that that is the right thing to do. For example, the meters that Meridian Energy has put in at Arc Innovations in Christchurch have allowed the situation where in the future home area network chips could be put in, should that be the right technology to jump to. As that member has outlined in his bill, it may end up being the right technology to jump to in the future, but I think that idea has not yet been proven\u2014it is not proven that it is the right place to go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EA number of regulations exist currently about the guidelines on metering by the Electricity Commission. In fact, a bill currently before the Finance and Expenditure Committee has been looking at a number of issues about electricity. This issue has arisen in passing. If the member had brought the bill before the House with some alterations, particularly in terms of the home area network chips and other things about tariffs, we might have been able to support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EI will touch on one example of the tariffs the member spoke about. Again in Canterbury, the Orion New Zealand lines company has one of the most innovative sets of tariffs in the country. Up and down New Zealand there are currently something like 300 different types of electricity tariffs. The electricity reforms that the Minister of Energy and Resources is currently undertaking outline a series of regulations for the new Electricity Authority to formalise and make some changes in those tariffs, in order to bring together a simplification. I think that that makes some sense. But we have to be very careful not to put in place what is effectively more compulsion in other tariff rates, when it makes some sense to have some innovative tariff arrangements, particularly in Canterbury with the use of irrigation. I know that the Green Party has some particular concerns about irrigation, but tariff rates and the innovative tariff structures used by Orion actually help to reduce water use and power consumption. I think that is a good thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EIt is true that smart meters have the potential to reduce peak demand. They have the potential to defer the need for more electricity generation in the future, and to encourage people to change how they consume electricity through their appliances throughout their lifetimes. But there are smart meters and smart meters. As I outlined earlier, the question is whether we jump now to what is probably the wrong conclusion, or whether we wait and take into account a more cautious approach, to implement an arrangement whereby we would have meters that are more appropriate for New Zealand. New appliances will come on to the market from developers such as Fisher and Paykel, which is a world-leading developer of technology for appliances, and they will be able to access a standard of communication between meters and their appliances. That will be a good thing, but we are not there yet. I think this bill, in outlining some way of jumping that decision before the technology is there, is a move too far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EFinally, I reiterate the issue of costs. Some matters in this bill contain too much detail for a bill, and are probably better taken into account in terms of regulation. They are better taken into account in the electricity reforms we are undertaking at the moment with the electricity legislation, and I encourage the member to get involved in some of the final stages of those regulations and their development to make the current situation with the Electricity Commission and those guidelines more formalised. These reforms will take into account a big chunk of what this bill does, but will not take into account the tariff restructuring, the home area network chips, and the in-home displays, which we think are a cost too far. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8ca508c5e3f40c28a7d09241c537530\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8ca508c5e3f40c28a7d09241c537530\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to begin by congratulating David Clendon on bringing the Smart Meters (Consumer Choice) Bill successfully to the House. It must be a record in the annals of the proceedings of the House for a new member to have a bill drawn from the ballot as quickly as he has managed to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221185e2ced3ce4df7b386817ebeac76b5\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Outrageous!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a322d967c394780bafd654bbad7ef66\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the rest of us are very jealous of the success he has had. Labour will support this bill because we believe that New Zealanders ought to have more control at home over their power bills. Householders should have the opportunity to get a little more control over the cost of their electricity. Smart meters provide electricity users with the ability to monitor their power usage, and therefore to begin to exercise that greater control that we think they should have. The previous speaker is quite right. There are issues that need to be resolved. But the question is one of the chicken and the egg. Does the country wait until the technology is perfect, or do we give the technology a bit of a boost by specifying a standard now and helping the appliance manufacturers to know what they should be doing, as the Victorian Government has done, and roll out a proper series of appliances in the home that can connect to smart meters and start to give consumers the power we think they should have? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThere is a real problem at the moment, as the previous speaker observed. There is no requirement at the moment for the smart meters that Meridian Energy and others are installing to have any home area network functionality. There is an excellent report on this issue from the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, the servant of the House in this area, who has done meticulous research on the requirements that would be needed to make sure we could roll out smart meters in a way that provides choice to consumers. That is something we should take seriously. The Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment has estimated that by 2012 retailers will have installed a total of 800,000 meters in this country without home area network capability\u2014the feature that makes them smart. Without having installed a home area network chip, so that smart meters can communicate with other in-home appliances, consumers simply will not be able to take advantage of using power when electricity is cheaper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe bill sets minimum standards for smart meters, to ensure that the meters being installed are actually smart. They should live up to their name. They should have home area network functionality, not just the capability to have them put in later on. As I said, this will encourage appliance makers to move quickly to put chips in fridges, washing machines, dryers, heat pumps, and dishwashers so that householders can programme them to use power most efficiently and to lower their power bills. The corollary of this development would be that power retailers would offer differential tariffs. When they were not able to sell a whole lot of power into the market, they could make that power available to householders, say at night, for cheaper rates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThis is the future of electricity usage. It is an important step towards smart grids. Smart grids use digital technology to upgrade the current system, and this will allow for much closer control of our electricity supply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe Government has shown a consistent lack of interest in providing consumers with greater control over their power usage and encouraging greater energy efficiency. Last year the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment recommended that the Minister should specify a standard, as has now taken place in a number of overseas jurisdictions. I mentioned Victoria, and that is probably the closest relevant development. But Gerry Brownlee has just ignored those recommendations. He defends his decision because he says that the ripple control system on home water heating, to manage peak load, is an adequate substitute. In technology terms, Mr Brownlee\u2019s decision is a bit like people saying they do not want an iPod because they still have a perfectly good collection of 78s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIn March 2010 Gerry Brownlee again rejected calls to establish a standard for domestic smart metering of electricity, in favour of allowing the industry to decide what is best. This refusal is a major missed opportunity to empower consumers. It is another example of the energy Minister just sticking his head in the sand. We can trot out all the excuses as to why we should not do this, but we are missing opportunities. I congratulate David Clendon on bringing this bill to the House. I hope we take the opportunity he has offered, to give consumers a bit of choice in the way they use electricity and to start making our electricity grid a lot smarter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9a33d52186d408d995530718bffdda3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9a33d52186d408d995530718bffdda3\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on the Smart Meters (Consumer Choice) Bill introduced by my colleague the Green list MP David Clendon. I acknowledge his knowledge in this area. The Commerce Committee heard from the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment and various other submitters on this very subject. Obviously the bill\u2019s aim is to give effect to some of the recommendations that the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment stated in her report. I must say up front that National will be voting against the first reading of this bill. \u201CAdvanced\u201D meters I think is the proper term that should be applied to this because there are very few smart meters out there\u2014not just in New Zealand, but across the world. Smart meters communicate with appliances in a really advanced way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EIn terms of the development of the technology, advanced meters have changed electricity meters into complex systems. These systems are able to measure and record electricity consumption in almost real time. It makes that information available to the electricity market, its participants and, most important, its consumers. The benefits have already been espoused by previous speakers. Obviously it allows retailers to remotely read meters, without needing to physically access consumers\u2019 properties. It provides consumers with accurate monthly invoices, not just guesstimates of what their bills will be. It also enables faster switching between retailers, reducing the barrier to entry for new-entrant retailers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003ESmart meters have the potential to reduce peak demand, thereby deferring the need for investment in new generation, transmission, and distribution assets. As all speakers have alluded to, it could lead to cost savings for consumers, retailers, and distributors, enabling greater consumer participation in, and understanding of, the electricity market. The recent ministerial review of electricity market performance, led by the Hon Gerry Brownlee, endorsed the introduction of smart meters in New Zealand because of the benefits they will bring. But the key point is that the Government supports the introduction of smart meters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EIn terms of the current regulation around smart meters, some aspects of metering are regulated under Part D of the Electricity Governance Rules. The roll-out of smart meters is unregulated. However, the Electricity Commission issued guidelines in May 2008 that recommended minimum standards for smart metering systems. These guidelines are recommendations only. The Electricity Commission, of course, reported to the Minister in December 2009 about the regulation of smart meters. The commission\u2019s overall recommendation is that it is not necessary to extensively regulate the roll-out of smart meters, because, and this is the critical point, the benefits of regulation do not outweigh the costs. Let me repeat that, for the benefit of members opposite. The benefits of regulation do not outweigh the costs. The commission considered that some technical aspects of smart meters addressed only in the current voluntary guidelines should be regulated. Those regulations are being progressed as part of the fundamental review of the electricity market rules, as my colleague has alluded to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EWhy should we not support this bill? Well, some of the bill\u2019s provisions are unnecessary because of widespread compliance with the voluntary guidelines on smart meters. There are technical matters contained in the bill that are inappropriate for primary legislation. They can instead be advanced through the rules made by the new Electricity Authority. The bill is also inconsistent with the expert advice of the Electricity Commission that we have all spoken about. It recommended against the extensive regulation of smart meters. Passing this bill would impose extra cost on consumers, who are still reeling from the electricity price rises under the last Government. What were those price rises? I will remind the House. Prices rose at three times the rate of inflation\u201475 percent over 9 long years of the Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00220fbf48ac92f94eb5aaa6a144a3161001\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fbf48ac92f94eb5aaa6a144a3161001\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E There we have it. National, the party that purports to be the party of choice, is denying consumers the choice to have lower power bills and to save money on their electricity. National purports to be the party of choice, except when it comes to giving ordinary working New Zealanders any choice over saving money, those members do not want a bar of it. At a time when prices are continuing to go up and we have low, low rates of wage growth under this Government\u2014the lowest in almost a decade\u2014National does not want to give people the choice of saving money on their power bills. That is what this Smart Meters (Consumer Choice) Bill would do. It is a very good bill from our colleagues in the Green Party, it is supported by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, and the National Government is turning its back on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThose members do not care about the evidence. They do not care about giving people choice. They want to take the Gerry Brownlee \u201Cwe know best\u201D approach and not give people the choice. National members do not care about energy efficiency at all. We saw that from the minute they took up the Treasury benches, when they repealed the restriction on new thermal generation. They repealed laws on biofuels. They slashed the $1 billion home insulation fund that would have given so many New Zealanders the opportunity to save money on their power bills and to live in warmer, drier homes. That all went out of the door as soon as National got into office and as soon as Gerry \u201CSexy Coal\u201D Brownlee became the Minister of Energy and Resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288bb3b99958e411092918e5ec7506da1\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd4077d2771f465ab80c794e6422f39b\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: He does not want to reduce our use of energy because that would reduce the market for coal, which he wants to go around pulling out of the ground to turn into electricity. Mr \u201CSexy Coal\u201D Brownlee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d888d6c34d8147c5b2a840805628532f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will use proper names.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b19ec16b2654198a555ab0dc9fc4357\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Gerry Brownlee wants to mine our national parks. Gerry Brownlee\u2019s motto is \u201CWhen in a hole, keep digging\u201D. He thinks that the future of New Zealand is not in energy efficiency and in giving consumers the ability to control their power bills, but in digging up more fossil fuels and burning them to produce electricity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EMembers on this side of the House say that that is not a sustainable future for New Zealand. We need to look at more sustainable energy and electricity generation, and we need to give consumers the ability to reduce their energy consumption, should they wish to; to spread their energy consumption; or to make use of cheaper electricity. What is Gerry Brownlee\u2019s answer to that? He says that we have ripple control. The 1970s solution to energy efficiency is good enough for Gerry Brownlee. As Charles Chauvel said, it is a bit like saying that we do not want an iPod because we have a perfectly good set of LPs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe Government is not interested in the latest technology that can give people choice. The Government is going against all of the international evidence. In fact, we can look at what the Conservatives in the United Kingdom are doing. David Cameron, that great Conservative icon for the National Party, stated: \u201CWe have got this big 1960s grid but it\u2019s a dumb grid, and we need to make it into an intelligent grid.\u201D That was David Cameron. He said that a smart grid is \u201Cthe equivalent of the internet, rather than an old phone system.\u201D That is the Conservative Party in the UK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe UK Conservatives, who are not even in Government\u2014at least, not at the moment\u2014are miles ahead of the National Government here, which has had 18 months to do something to lower the price of electricity for consumers and it has done nothing. National members went up and down the country during the last election campaign promising people lower power bills. Where are they? The Government has had a year and a half. The price of electricity has not come down; it has continued to go up. Instead of lowering power prices, the National Government is denying consumers the right to cut their power bills by being able to have smart meters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThousands of new meters are being installed in households as we speak. Consumers are paying for the new meters already, so the rhetoric from National that specifying a standard would load more costs on to consumers is not correct. Consumers are paying already. The meters are already being installed, just not to a consistent standard, so there is no guarantee that they will be compatible. There is no guarantee that the electricity companies installing the meters will not use them as a competitive advantage to stop consumers switching electricity companies. Specifying a standard would give consumers more choice. It would allow them to lower their power bills. This Government is denying people that choice. It is denying hard-working New Zealanders the chance to have lower power bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022 data-id=\u0022eda5ed1d832640c7874bee7c96df04a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eda5ed1d832640c7874bee7c96df04a9\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E That was certainly an impassioned plea from Mr Chris Hipkins in this debate on the Smart Meters (Consumer Choice) Bill. It would seem that the debate has broken into one on the electricity industry, the price of electricity, and energy conservation. I will start by saying that the ACT Party will not be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249ee8f327aa64741b4431b1fe26f0807\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: What a surprise!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab260a4c93184bf59ae5f5d6cd90554a\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we approach things with an open mind, I tell Mr Hipkins, but we are following the logic that Mr Gilmore outlined. He made the point that if we go back to the 1980s and 1990s, we go back to the debate between VHS and Beta. We go back to the debate between Microsoft and Netscape. One could have taken a gamble and decided which type of technology to pursue, but one would have made a mistake in doing that. I think Mr Gilmore has outlined very clearly that that would be a foolish thing to do at this stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EIt was particularly interesting that Mr Sam Lotu-Iiga talked about the 75 percent increase in the price of electricity during the term of the previous Labour Government. He said that Labour is now crying crocodile tears over the National Government\u2019s lack of support for this bill. I think it is very important to remind ourselves that there was a 75 percent increase in the price of electricity over the last 9 years. That is three times the rate of inflation. So what is this Government doing about it? It will increase the price of electricity even further. It will increase it even further, because we have an emissions trading scheme starting on 1 July this year. It is being extended to the stationary energy sector, which Treasury says will add 5 percent to the price of electricity. I know that Mr Hipkins is concerned about that, because he is concerned about the price of electricity rising, but he ignores the fact that his own party would have increased electricity prices by 10 percent if it had won the last election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EThe ACT Party, and only the ACT Party, questions the logic of having artificial increases in the price of electricity at all. Why would we proceed with an emissions trading scheme when none of our major trading partners is prepared to impose those same costs on their consumers, businesses, and exporters? I know that this issue is of concern to all New Zealanders and particularly to people living in rural areas. I have just finished a 2-day tour of the Waikato and Taranaki. I had seven public meetings, and I was stunned by the response and by the number of people who wanted to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EMr Clendon talked about the current roll-out of what he would call dumb meters. I understand Mr Clendon\u2019s concerns, because when the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment raised this issue with the Commerce Committee last year, I also wondered at the wisdom of doing that. But I was persuaded by the arguments of Mr Gilmore and the National Government that to proceed when there is so much uncertainty as to the way the technology will go would be unwise. Mr Clendon said that the advantage of having the meters that are currently being installed is all one-way. The generators have an advantage because they will be able to read these meters to automatically calculate accurate power bills. I think that is an advantage for the consumer, but Mr Clendon argued that the consumer will get no additional benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00223eacfc590dcd40a1ac66ca65719ea1e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223eacfc590dcd40a1ac66ca65719ea1e0\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. E te Whare t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tau katoa. K\u0101tahi an\u014D ahau ka hoki mai i te nehu o t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 uri o roto o Ng\u0101ti Manawa, ko Bill Bird t\u0113r\u0101. Koia t\u0113r\u0101 i whakatakotohia ki roto i te rua k\u014Diwi o ng\u0101 m\u0101tua t\u016Bpuna o roto o Ng\u0101ti Manawa, i Murupara. N\u014D reira, e tika ana kia tuku i ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a ia kua riro ki tua o te pae. N\u014D reira, waiho ia kia moe, kia okioki. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKo t\u0101 t\u0101tau ko te w\u0101nanga i ng\u0101 take o roto i te Whare P\u0101remata i t\u0113nei p\u014D. Me k\u014Drero au m\u014D te \u0101huatanga ki a Murupara. I a au i Murupara i te rangi nei ehara i te mea, he h\u0101ngai tonu \u014D r\u0101tau whakaaro i t\u0113nei rangi tonu nei ki t\u0113nei pire. Ko t\u0101 r\u0101tau i a t\u0101tau e k\u014Drero nei m\u014D t\u0113nei mea m\u014D te hiko, ko t\u0101 r\u0101tau e whakaaro nui nei, m\u014D te moni hei utu i ng\u0101 nama. Ehara i te mea m\u014D te m\u012Bt\u0101, ehara i te mea m\u014D \u0113tahi atu take, k\u0101o. Ko t\u0101 r\u0101tau, ko te kimi moni kia taea ai e r\u0101tau te utu ng\u0101 nama e p\u0101 ana ki te hiko. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EEhara i te mea he nui w\u0101ku k\u014Drero m\u014D t\u0113nei take. E ai ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero kua puta ki te komiti wh\u0101iti o te Commerce Komiti, i tae mai w\u0113tahi k\u014Drero m\u014D t\u0113nei kaupapa, m\u014D te smart meters. K\u0101re au i te m\u014Dhio, m\u0113n\u0101 i t\u0113tahi taha ko te smart meter, ko t\u0113tahi taha ko te dumb meter, aua hoki. Engari i t\u014Dna mutunga mai, e ai ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero he kaupapa pai t\u0113nei hei \u0101whina i te hunga e whakapau moni ana m\u014D te hiko n\u0101 runga i te mea tuatahi, he \u0101ta titiro ki te moni ka whakapauhia i runga i te hiko, \u0101, ka mutu, t\u0113r\u0101 pea n\u0101 runga i t\u0113r\u0101 \u0101huatanga, ka kore r\u0101tau e tere whakapau moni i runga i te hiko, ka mutu, ka \u0101whina i a r\u0101tou ki te \u0101ta tiaki i te p\u016Btea kai roto i te p\u016Bkoro. I t\u014Dna mutunga mai, te t\u016Bmanako ia ka whakam\u0101m\u0101 i te \u0101huatanga o t\u0113nei mea te hiko m\u014D t\u0113n\u0101, me t\u0113n\u0101 o roto i ng\u0101 hapori, kia kore e raruraru n\u0101 runga i te taumahatanga o ng\u0101 pire kei runga i a r\u0101tau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EHe paku \u0101wangawanga n\u014D m\u0101tau n\u014D roto i te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, ana ko t\u0113nei n\u0101. I ng\u0101 tau kua hipa kua rongo m\u0101tau, \u0101, whakak\u012Bk\u012Bngia ng\u0101 roto o Te Wai Pounamu m\u014D te hiko, \u0101, ka mutu, ko ng\u0101 kamupene nui, ko r\u0101tau te hunga ka whiwhi p\u0101inga n\u0101 runga i t\u0113nei mea o te hoko hiko. Ka p\u0101taia te p\u0101tai, e, m\u0113n\u0101 koi r\u0101 te \u0101huatanga ko te nuinga o te moni ka haere tonu ki roto i te p\u016Bkoro o ng\u0101 kamupene nui, he aha t\u0101 r\u0101tau ki te hapori, ki a Aotearoa wh\u0101nui tonu? Koi n\u0101 te p\u0101tai nui. H\u0113 \u0101wangawanga tonu n\u014D roto o te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i te mea, m\u0113n\u0101 ka p\u0113r\u0101, e aroha atu ana ki te hunga e rongo nei i te p\u014Dharatanga, e rongo nei i ng\u0101 uauatanga o te kore moni n\u0101 runga i te kore mahi, ka mutu, \u0101, koi n\u0101 te \u0101wangawanga nui. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u0100, k\u0101ti, ka tautoko ake i t\u0113nei pire. He poto noa ake taku k\u014Drero engari, he whakatakoto i \u0113nei k\u014Drero ki mua i te aroaro o te Whare P\u0101remata i t\u0113nei p\u014D. Kei wareware i a t\u0101tau, ko te hunga rawa kore, ko te hunga kore moni, kore mahi nei i te mea, t\u014Dna mutunga mai, ka riro an\u014D r\u0101 m\u0101 r\u0101tau ng\u0101 nama e utu. M\u0113n\u0101 he \u0101whina t\u0113nei ki a r\u0101tau, kia \u0101ta tiaki pai mai i te \u0101huatanga o te moni kei roto i te p\u016Bkoro, e tika ana kia tautoko ake. N\u014D reira, ka waiho ake ng\u0101 k\u014Drero ki reira, me te tautoko ake i t\u0113nei pire i t\u014Dna p\u0101nuitanga tuatahi. Kia ora t\u0101tau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and to us all, the House. I have just returned from the burial of a descendant of the Ng\u0101ti Manawa people. That person was Bill Bird, and he was laid to rest in the cemetery of his Ng\u0101ti Manawa ancestors in Murupara. Therefore, it is apt that tributes of the highest order be placed upon the one who has passed beyond the horizon. Allow him to slumber and rest there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EOur task is to debate the issues that are before the House of Parliament tonight. The thoughts of the people in Murupara today were, as expected, not focused on this bill. Their main concern, as we debate the issue over power, is about where the money is going to come from to pay the bills. It is not about meters, or any other issue, absolutely not, but to find the money to pay the bills relating to electricity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI do not really have a lot to say about this issue. According to some reports from the Commerce Committee, submissions about this policy relating to smart meters were received. I am not exactly sure whether the submissions were about smart meters, or dumb meters, or whatever. But at the end of it all, and according to the discussions, this is a sound policy in that it helps people who spend on power, because, in the first instance, it monitors the money being spent on power and conserves the funds in the pocket. The desired outcome is that it eases costs to the individual and spreads it more evenly over the whole community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party has a small concern, and it relates to this. We heard that the ones who reaped the benefits by storing waters in South Island lakes and selling the electricity generated from that in the past were the huge power companies. The question then is, if the majority of the money continues to go into the coffers of big power companies, what is their contribution to the community and to New Zealand at large? That is the big question. It is a real concern for the M\u0101ori Party, because if that is going to be the case, we pity the ones struggling to keep above the breadline and struggling to find work. It is a huge concern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThat aside, we support this bill. While my contribution is a small one, I have at least expressed it before the House. We must never forget those without means, money, and jobs, because eventually they are the ones left to pay the accounts. If this bill is of some help to them in terms of stretching the money in the pocket, then it is right that it be supported. So I leave my comments there, and endorse this bill at its first reading. Greetings to us.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u00221a4327a2747c4ef88043d4119bebe138\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a4327a2747c4ef88043d4119bebe138\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I take pleasure in rising to support David Clendon\u2019s Smart Meters (Consumer Choice) Bill. The purpose of the bill is to empower domestic consumers to better manage their electricity use. The mechanism to achieve that is twofold: first, by requiring the providers of such meters to inform domestic consumers of their options when smart meters are about to be installed; and, second, to set minimum standards for the provision of smart meters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EAs the title of the bill indicates, this is all about consumer choice. It must, therefore, be clear that this Government would be positively predisposed to support it. I note that earlier in this debate Sam Lotu-Iiga acknowledged that his Government supported the introduction of smart meters in themselves, but, alas, not this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Energy and Resources has expressed a concern that the bill imposes over-regulation on the industry. But the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment and the chief executives of six major lines companies have called for far more stringent regulations than are proposed in our bill. Under the bill, one of the requirements for smart meters in this country is the provision of a home area network, as has been acknowledged. This is a chip that can be installed inside the smart meter that would enable any electric or electronic device to communicate with the meter. The Minister, along with the Electricity Commission, recommends against proceeding with these chips. But if the bill is voted through to the select committee, this issue can be explored. We could perhaps accept deletion of this provision, although it is not easy to follow the logic of the argument against that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThe basis of the cost-benefit analysis against such chips, assessed by the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research, was highly skewed against them in three ways: first, it used retail prices for the costs and wholesale prices for the benefits; second, it downplayed the electricity savings by 80 percent, compared with the studies it quoted, without giving any substantive reason besides suggesting that somehow New Zealand was different; and, third, it used the retail price for the home area network chip, but, in fact, the chip comes pre-installed in the meter, which makes a difference of $65 per unit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EIn the United States there is some public concern over the accuracy of smart meters, resulting in calls for regulation. Our bill does not require regulation; it just gives the Minister the authority to regulate, should that be needed. It has been argued that appliance manufacturers must move on a protocol first, before smart meters do. I note that Aaron Gilmore earlier in the debate expressed concern about the different standards prevailing, and concern about uncertainty over the precise technology that might apply in the future. Yet we understand, from at least one major manufacturer, that until the smart meter protocol is mandated, they will not move to develop the interface. That is why other countries are mandating a protocol by way of regulation. Only this initiative will get things moving. Of course, there may be problems of obsolescence down the line, but the chip socket will still be in place, so the chip can be upgraded at less than total cost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EDoes the Government truly believe that the cost-benefit analysis of the consumer aspects of smart meters will not pay? Does it believe that it will be 10 years before they are fully functional? If so, the Government should introduce a moratorium on their installation. Otherwise, the extra costs that retailers are charging to customers for smart meters that are of no use would be indefensible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThis bill is about making New Zealand a smart economy. It is about using high tech to make us warmer, more efficient, and less polluting in our lifestyle. It gives the consumer the option of choice. The only thing standing between households and the absurd power price increases we are all facing is this bill. There can be no sound reason to oppose the bill. Any refinements that are warranted can be agreed to in the select committee. I call upon Government members to support the bill still, at this stage, and work with the Green Party to make it become law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u00228ea960fb87c34731b7bb2cc162f28885\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ea960fb87c34731b7bb2cc162f28885\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call tonight on the Smart Meters (Consumer Choice) Bill. National is voting against the first reading of this bill. We have heard a lot of talk about what smart meters are, what they can do, and how good they are. Smart meters are good, and this Government supports their introduction. But we have to make a distinction between smart meters and advanced meters. In New Zealand we have advanced meters. Smart meters are an emerging type of technology that is still coming into the market, still being commercialised, and still being put into products that we can use. But in New Zealand, we are not quite there. In fact, it may not be wise to make regulations and pass legislation to make happen something that is not in existence now, and that maybe will change significantly the way it is delivered or as technology changes. There might be a great big shift. If we are going to regulate and enforce something, why do we not wait until we have smart meters in New Zealand and see what they look like? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EAlthough some aspects of metering are regulated under Part D of the Electricity Governance Rules, the roll-out of smart meters is still unregulated. However, the Electricity Commission issued guidelines in May 2008 that recommended minimum standards for smart meter systems. The guidelines are recommendations only; participants are not required to comply with them. But many, many organisations already are gearing up to do so, and many are already in that space without being told they have to do it and without having this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EWhat does the report say? The Electricity Commission report, which is the most recent information we have, was reported back to the Minister in December 2009. The commission\u2019s overall recommendation was that it is not necessary to extensively regulate the roll-out of smart meters because the benefits of regulation do not outweigh the costs at this stage. The last thing this country needs is increased electricity prices. The last thing this country needs is another law put in place that will make the costs for those users go up even higher. Now is not the right time for a bill like this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EWhat does the bill do? It requires providers of smart meters to offer to consumers, before the installation service or upgrade of any domestic smart meter, an in-home display unit, import and export capability, and the choice of particular types of prescribed tariffs. It sets out minimum requirements for smart meters, such as that they must include certain components and features that accord with the Electricity Governance Rules, the means to control any existing hot water cylinder, various other features, and, crucially, home area network functionality, not just capability\u2014and there is a difference there. The bill also introduces regulation-making powers for the purposes of assisting domestic consumers. This is already happening in certain areas, without this legislation having been passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003ESome of the reasons why the bill\u2019s provisions are unnecessary are that there is widespread compliance. There are already voluntary guidelines on smart meters. The technical matters contained in the bill are inappropriate for primary legislation, and can instead be advanced through rules made by the new electricity authority. Maybe there will be a time and a place for this legislation, but the industry is already doing all right on its own. We do not need to interfere at this stage. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022690d13d0a33042f987c35f49562f8624\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022690d13d0a33042f987c35f49562f8624\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Poor value for money\u2014that was the Treasury advice on the Government\u2019s so-called jobs package last August. Do we have more jobs? No, we have fewer jobs, and 168,000 people are unemployed. More jobs are disappearing offshore every day, and the Government has refused to invest in jobs and skills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe fact is that this Government is not very smart, but here we are talking today on a bill about smart meters that is intended to put the power back into the hands of consumers. The Smart Meters (Consumer Choice) Bill is timely, and it should be supported. Unfortunately, it will go nowhere, because we have a Government that is stuck in mundane and bland thinking. It does not see its role as being to invest in skills and jobs, let alone to promote new technologies to deliver new policy directions and transform our economy and society. I will talk about smart thinking, something this Government does not do. I am deadly serious about it, because if we do not do some smart thinking, then we will stand still as an economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe communications revolution means massive changes in the way that we live, work, and communicate, which has an impact on health care, education, and environmental services. It requires collaboration between various industries, such as utilities services, the telecommunications companies, and the information technology sector. I wish that I could stand here in this House today and say that is what is happening in this country, but unfortunately it is not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EDespite a big plan to put $1.5 billion into ultra-fast broadband, this Government is doing very little thinking about what it will use that broadband for or about how it can drive demand and help transform our society to deliver better education, health services, and energy services through new technology. Instead, that thinking is going on in Australia. Its smart thinking is being led from the top. The Rudd Government has made the connection between smart meters, new technology, and energy efficiency, and the importance of having the Government drive change for the good of all society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIn Australia a fundamental shift has taken place in environmental policy since 2007. That has had a huge effect on the utilities market. For the information and communications technology and the energy industries, Government initiatives on smart meters and national fibre telecommunications networks are moving in new directions, such as towards smart grids. By mid-2010 the outlines of Australia\u2019s first smart grid project should become visible, starting in Victoria. The major players are mostly large energy retailers and producers, supported by information technology and telecommunications firms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe Australians grasp that smart meters should only be considered in the broader context of the modernisation of electricity networks that introduced sensing communications and information technology on to the grid. Reputable Australian telecommunications analyst Paul Budde has talked about trans-sector thinking. He has talked about how the Australian Government is leading on all infrastructure projects and on the potential synergies between the building of roads, sewerage systems, and water and gas pipe networks, and telecommunications and electricity networks. The concept of smart communities is based on intelligent infrastructure, such as broadband and smart grids. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIn this country one would hope that there would be smart thinking by our Government to go with the delivery of broadband, and that the Government would think of putting broadband in place to make sure that people in communities are better connected, with services that link their homes to broadband. What are we doing as a Government to make that happen? Well, stuff-all, as it happens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI sit on the Commerce Committee. Last year a stream of State-owned electricity companies came before the committee for their financial reviews: Meridian Energy, Genesis, Mighty River Power, Transpower, and the Electricity Commission. I asked every one of them the same question, and I got virtually the same answer from each of them. That question was whether, given that the efficient use of electricity and saving power is a key issue for our time, any more work was being done on it, and whether the organisation was doing any thinking about where we are going next. The answer, consistently, was: \u201CNot much.\u201D Then I asked whether they were aware of the work being undertaken in Australia and other countries on smart grids and whether they were doing any thinking about that. The answer was \u201CYes\u201D to the first part of the question, and \u201CUm, no\u201D to the second part. I rest my case. No smart thinking is being promoted by this Government in the electricity industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThere is a huge opportunity to use this bill to propel thinking about how to better use smart meters. We could use new technologies to build smarter communities, to save people on their fuel bills, and to save energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022f205763d48284b12ace8c5a2d3e73b10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f205763d48284b12ace8c5a2d3e73b10\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora koutou. I will begin by thanking those members who have spoken in favour of the Smart Meters (Consumer Choice) Bill, particularly the Labour and M\u0101ori Party spokespeople; that demonstrates the forward-thinking and progressive nature of those two parties. It must be said of some of the opposition comments that members have shown damned good \u201Cfaint praise\u201D in recognising that many of the benefits we are proposing for the installation of smart meters are in fact very real. Nevertheless, they are choosing to vote against offering choice to consumers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThere seems to be a strange phenomenon around electricity prices. In years when the hydro lakes are dry we are told the power price must go up, but in years when they are full the power price must still go up. We bring in more renewables, and electricity prices go up. When we fire up the old coal burning stations, there seems to be some strange economic alchemy that demands that electricity prices must continue to rise. This bill would not be the entire solution to electricity pricing and to managing that, but it would be one significant and very positive step towards giving consumers the ability to manage their usage and cut their costs. It is a great shame that the Government tonight is demonstrating its failure to protect householders from rising electricity prices by voting against this very sensible and very timely bill. It is ironic that the two political parties that pride themselves on being advocates for choice, will be voting against a proposal that would enhance choice and offer consumers even more choice in this very critical area of energy in the household.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EConsumers are indeed paying for the new meters that are currently being rolled out, so consumers are stuck with paying for a technology from which they cannot benefit. That to me seems to be at odds with at least the professed beliefs of the two parties that are so far opposing this bill. We have heard much objection that the legislation has come too soon and that we must not get ahead of the game in terms of putting the technology in place before it is certain. In fact, that belies the reality. This is not new technology; it is well-proven technology. In fact, it is mandated in Victoria, the state of Australia, and in parts of the United States.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe are told that we must catch up with Australia. But suddenly the Government seems entirely reluctant to adopt the technology that is proving its worth in Australia, and that has been adopted there for all the reasons we are proposing that it would be appropriate to adopt it here. For a Government that speaks a great deal about innovation and the advancement of New Zealand\u2019s economy, it seems to have a remarkable reluctance to innovate\u2014not even to take a risk but simply to display some leadership\u2014and to demonstrate a willingness to accept that time has moved on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI must thank Mr Chauvel for his very appropriate comments that this is the iPod generation. We no longer content ourselves with just 78 records, but that is what this Government seems satisfied to do. There has been some mention of smart appliances. One spokesperson hoped that in his or her lifetime, smart appliances would be seen. I am not putting words in the mouth of Fisher and Paykel Appliances; I am not suggesting that that company is coming out in support of this bill, necessarily. But I spoke a few days ago to one of its technical people, who assured me that technically, in terms of electronic design and development, it could have smart appliances on the market within 18 months. All the company requires is confidence and the surety of the standard. Essentially, all it needs to light the fuse to make New Zealand - manufactured smart appliances available is an assurance of a standard. That is a very, very slight\u2014minor\u2014regulatory step, but that is what we see the Government unwilling to adopt tonight. Eighteen months is a very short time in the scheme of things, and that is how long it would take\u2014not 10 years, not a lifetime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EOverall, the objections from the Government have been in effect quite niggling objections\u2014that the bill is too soon and that the bill is imperfect. Of course it is imperfect; I doubt whether a member\u2019s bill has ever come to this House that could not have been improved by appropriate attention from a select committee. It is very disappointing that this Government will not allow that process to proceed. What will come out of this debate, though, is that New Zealanders will note which parties were willing to stand up and support the best interests of consumers, and which parties were not there to support consumers\u2019 interests. Kia ora koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022193e4e7eab2745309ecfe1ea5b2fa2bf\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Smart Meters (Consumer Choice) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ea558dd4fb47413ea287eaa8bf597bad\u0022\u003ETariff Act 1988 Repeal Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022109305aa4ad145ec8f7a997b5c18c81a\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0fcb0c9d5034c698393cf9211a1a552\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0fcb0c9d5034c698393cf9211a1a552\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Tariff Act 1988 Repeal Bill be now read a first time. Way back in 1998, when National actually seemed to believe in something, it passed an Act that would have abolished all tariffs by 2006. The National Party back then had it right; the National Party today has lost its way, and now does not appear to believe in private enterprise or competition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003ETariffs can only harm the country that imposes them. When we impose tariffs on iPods, sports equipment, and shoes, we make New Zealand consumers worse off. Consumers have to pay for the goods that they want. To take just one example, let us assume that we have a family in South Auckland who want to buy a pair of shoes. If those shoes are heavily protected they might have to pay $200 for a pair, when they could pay only $100 for an imported pair. What happens when they pay the $200 instead of the $100? During that week they will be unable to go to the picture theatre, and they will possibly be unable to buy as much food as they would otherwise have, etc. In other words, although protection might have produced one or two jobs in the shoe industry, the country would have lost jobs elsewhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003ELet us take the recent idea that the Labour Party has desperately latched on to\u2014that we should build trains here. Let us say that the cost is $200 million to import trains and $250 million to build them here. I ask members what the first effect is of buying from overseas. The first effect is that the Government is better off by $50 million. That is money that can be used to cut taxes or to spend elsewhere. \u201CBut what about the $200 million that goes to China?\u201D, some will say, \u201Cinstead of staying in New Zealand?\u201D. Well, what can the Chinese do with New Zealand dollars? There are only three things. The first thing they can do is to purchase goods and services from New Zealand, in which case we have nothing to worry about. The second thing they can do is to make the money available for investment. Once again, if people want to invest in New Zealand we should be happy about that, as well. The third thing they can do is exchange New Zealand dollars for their local currency. If they do that, then someone else has those New Zealand dollars\u2014dollars that must flow back to New Zealand in the end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003ELabour members misunderstand the economics of trade. That is why they will not support this bill. Many in National understand the economics, but think that the politics are far too tough. National seems also to think that trade barriers are somehow a useful bargaining chip in international trade. According to the logic that National applies, the most powerful trade negotiator in the world must be North Korea, a country with the highest trade barriers in the world. According to the perverse logic employed by National\u2014and by Labour, I might add\u2014we must harm ourselves in order to convince other countries to sign a trade agreement with us. That is a truly stupid argument. According to that logic the Governments of Singapore and Hong Kong are fools, because no one will ever want to sign a free-trade agreement with them. So which dumb countries have bothered to sign free-trade agreements with countries like Singapore and Hong Kong, which have no tariffs? Interestingly enough, New Zealand has a free-trade agreement with both. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EThe fact is that New Zealand can gain\u2014and this is the essence of the argument\u2014by selling goods that it can produce at a relatively low cost, from agriculture, etc., and by using the proceeds to buy things that it can produce only at high cost, like trains and shoes. There are three reasons for that: firstly, in international trade the people of each nation will be able to use more of their resources to produce and sell things they do well\u2014a major plus. Secondly, international trade allows both domestic producers and consumers to gain from reductions in per-unit costs, which are brought about by specialisation, size, etc. Thirdly, international trade promotes competition in domestic markets, and thereby allows consumers more choice and lower prices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EDuring the 1980s eight of the least developed countries in the world with the lowest restrictions\u2014the lowest tariffs\u2014grew their economies at 5 percent a year, while 10 of the least developed countries with the highest tariffs remained at zero percent for economic growth. I think that that is significant. If we take eight of the least developed countries in the world with low tariffs during the 1980s, we see that on average their economies grew by 5 percent. On the other hand, 10 of the countries that had the highest protection, the highest level of tariffs and other restrictions, collectively remained at zero percent for growth. I think that that makes the case for getting rid of tariffs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003ELabour members, both last week and this week, have argued that if we provide protection to the rail industry by building trains here, then we will create jobs for New Zealand. That is wrong\u2014wrong. If jobs were the key to high incomes, we could create as many as we liked. We could dig holes one day and fill them in the next, but we would be very poor as a result. Of course high tariffs will expand employment in a protected industry. That is obvious; anyone can see that. However, that does not mean that total employment in the country will expand. If job-savers think that high tariffs and other trade restraints will create jobs, why do they not introduce a tariff between the North Island and the South Island? For heaven\u2019s sake, if it is such a good idea, why not do that? That example simply illustrates how absurd some of the arguments for having high tariffs really are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003ETo conclude, I want to make one final point: New Zealanders should simply be left to trade with whomever they want. We should be free to buy from the cheapest markets, and, if at all possible, to sell our goods in the most expensive. The economic benefits of trade do not\u2014and I emphasise do not\u2014care about political borders. Just as trade between Wellington and Auckland makes both cities better off\u2014as indeed any voluntary trade must do\u2014so does international trade make countries better off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u002244eb835b02c0414e9f53a4c4b7ad94e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244eb835b02c0414e9f53a4c4b7ad94e6\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E That speech made by Sir Roger Douglas sounded plausible, but I rise to oppose him, and I rise to oppose his piece of political theatre\u2014one and a bit pages of four clauses that, if passed, would allow imports without the payment of tariffs, which are currently provided for by the Tariff Act 1988. In effect, this tiny piece of political theatre would get rid of the Tariff Act 1988. The Act provides a framework for the Tariff of New Zealand and its administration. The Tariff Act also provides for transitional safeguard measures where such measures have been provided for under free-trade agreements. Such safeguards protect New Zealand industries from serious injury caused by increased imports resulting from the reduction or elimination of tariffs under a free-trade agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EIn many circumstances I would be inclined to support the proposal. Why? Lowering trade barriers is good for the ordinary person in my electorate and, more broadly, for this country. The Uruguay round of trade negotiations, which reduced trade barriers right across the world from 1994, is estimated to have increased world income by roughly US$100 billion. If tariffs on agricultural and industrial goods and services were reduced by one-third, there would be a further gain of about US$600 billion\u2014or about 2 percent of world income. The removal of all trade barriers would deliver over 6 percent of world income. In fact, the gains would be much greater, I suspect, because these numbers are back-of-the-envelope calculations estimating the gains from bringing cheaper goods from world markets into what are currently protected markets. It is a very simple application of Ricardo\u2019s theory of comparative advantage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003ESo why am I standing against this proposal from Sir Roger Douglas? Essentially, I say to Sir Roger that the question is about judgment; mine differs from his. New Zealand tariffs are already amongst the lowest in the world. New Zealand\u2019s economy, along with economies like those of Hong Kong and Singapore, which Sir Roger mentioned, is one of the most open in the world. There are very few tariffs left to be knocked off, and those that remain are very low. The current 5 percent and 10 percent tariffs are subject to reductions that may arise out of the World Trade Organization\u2019s Doha round, and also to reductions that may be negotiated with New Zealand\u2019s free-trade agreement partners over the coming years. The most recent of these is the Malaysia free-trade agreement, which is before my select committee, the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EIn fact, if we look at New Zealand\u2019s existing free-trade agreements, we see that there are very few tariffs left. They have been eliminated from exports from Australia, and our recently concluded free-trade agreements with China and 10 nations of South-east Asia\u2014Hong Kong and others\u2014mean that we are on a path towards the elimination of tariffs on goods from these countries also. In addition, through the World Trade Organization, we have offered duty-free access to the world\u2019s poorest countries, the least developed countries. There are only a few sectors, such as clothing, textiles, footwear, and some manufacturing sectors, where tariffs remain. New Zealand\u2019s last scheduled unilateral reduction of tariffs took place on 1 July last year, when the highest tariffs, mainly on footwear and carpets, were reduced to 10 percent. On 1 July 2008 tariffs on a range of mainly manufactured goods were reduced to 5 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003ELet us talk about companies in my electorate, such as Metalform in Dannevirke where I will be on Friday helping to lock up a container with the 500th high-tech wheelchair to be exported. These companies are in absolutely no rush to see the remaining tariffs eliminated. They have competed with imports for years. Shoe manufacturers in my electorate, and certainly clothing manufacturers, have competed with imports for years and will continue to do so. These tariffs are likely to be negotiated away as our free-trade agreements take effect, but there is little to be gained from doing this immediately. This is why my judgment differs from Sir Roger\u2019s. I remember what happened back in the late 1980s, when Sir Roger and his colleagues from the Labour Party caused massive economic restructuring, and what did that achieve? It increased unemployment, it ruined many small businesses, it ruined many farmers in my electorate, it penalised those on low incomes, and it penalised the elderly, who rebelled against discriminatory taxes. I say to Sir Roger that this is not what we need at this time on the back of a recession. It is a question of judgment, and that is why I stand against him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThe problem New Zealand faces is not that our consumers are hampered by high tariffs; that was certainly once the case, but it no longer is. It is that other countries have not followed suit\u2014I am particularly thinking of America. We would see real economic gains if tariffs were reduced in our key export markets, and that is precisely what the Government is working hard to do through its agenda of free-trade agreement negotiations. We have done it with China, which is now our second-largest trading partner, and we are reaping the benefits. New Zealand exports to China grew by 43 percent last year. I say to Sir Roger that that was a key factor in driving New Zealand through the global recession and helping to keep New Zealanders in jobs. Increased market access in key export markets achieved through free-trade agreements can be expected to provide significant benefit to the New Zealand economy, to New Zealand companies, and to New Zealand consumers, and, in turn, support employment, which is so critical at this time of economic fragility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003ELast year Cabinet decided to maintain tariffs through until 2015. That judgment was made on the basis that tariff reductions through trade negotiations, rather than through unilateral tariff reduction\u2014as Sir Roger is proposing in the House tonight\u2014will provide more benefit for domestic tariff liberalisation, and enhanced as well as reciprocal access to the markets of important trading partners. I say to Sir Roger that we have to be smart about this. That strategy makes sense for the economy as a whole. That is what Sir Roger Douglas overlooks; it is why his bill is faulty, and it is why I will vote against it tonight. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u002204e04e4f5acc467d95f8046ded633f38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204e04e4f5acc467d95f8046ded633f38\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise as the third speaker on the Tariff Act 1988 Repeal Bill. As the third speaker I have only 5 minutes, so I will not waste too much time traversing history. Suffice it to say that in the time of the fourth Labour Government, of which Sir Roger Douglas was a key member, there was huge economic restructuring and consequent dislocation, particularly of 300,000 people who lost their jobs in the process. Although we still stand by some of the economic restructuring, it was a period that saw the Labour Party nearly tear itself apart because of the extreme implications and effects of these policies. Sir Roger has now come back to finish the job. The Labour Party stands against this bill tonight and will stand against Sir Roger finishing this job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe Tariff Act 1988 was legislated, to begin with, in order to provide for changing regulations around tariffs and the implementation of the Government\u2019s plan to lower tariff rates to below 20 percent by 1992. Throughout the 1990s the National Government repeatedly and unilaterally lowered tariffs to the point where they were one-fifth of late 1980s levels. In 1998 the Government passed the Tariff (Zero Duty) Amendment Bill, which mandated the reduction of all tariffs to zero by 2006. But the new Labour Government in 2000 amended this bill, placing a freeze on all further unilateral tariff reductions until 2005, and tariff reductions were to continue as part of free-trade agreements. For Sir Roger to characterise our free-trade agreements as being only tariff reduction mechanisms is to do them a disservice. These days they are much more complex mechanisms than that, which is why the logic about countries that have no tariffs not entering into free-trade agreements with New Zealand does not stand up, because they continue to make gains from the other provisions in free-trade agreements that have nothing to do with tariff reductions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI say to Sir Roger that that logic is out of date and needs to be updated. The new free-trade agreements well may contain tariff reductions, and frequently do. They are done on a calculated and measured basis in a way that allows some protection of New Zealand industry, and at the same time provides New Zealand with a few remaining bargaining chips. They are not the only things, but we have a few remaining bargaining chips that we may be able to deliver in the course of free-trade agreements. However, they are complex mechanisms these days, and they are not simply about tariff reductions. We have tariffs remaining on a number of goods. In particular, we have a 5 percent customs duty on textile imports and a range of other products imported from overseas. These products include processed foods, machinery, steel, and some plastic products. A 10 percent customs duty applies to a few imports, mainly clothing, footwear, and carpet. Those tariffs apply on goods that are still made in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI refer to a press release from the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions at the time when Tim Groser, the Minister of Trade, together with Simon Power, the Minister of Commerce, had announced that they not would be proceeding with any more unilateral tariff reductions. Peter Conway, the Secretary of the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions, said that although the level of tariffs provided much less security in respect of local industry and employment than in the past, it still made a difference to sectors such as carpets, clothing, textiles, and footwear, as well as to plastics and whiteware. He went on to say that the eventual phase-out of tariffs on items such as clothing, in the context of the free-trade agreement with China, and the likelihood that tariff reductions would feature in other such trade agreements, means that it does not make sense for New Zealand to undertake unilateral tariff reductions. I say to Sir Roger that the process of arriving at tariff reductions these days is a much more measured and calculated affair. They are now done in the context of complicated and very sophisticated free-trade agreements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e92734093b394af59fecdc762ca3722e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e92734093b394af59fecdc762ca3722e\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to oppose the Tariff Act 1988 Repeal Bill with an air of confusion as to why this bill has come to Parliament. It seems to me that this is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022373292b3e54c498b88b8078ae3041a24\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Finishing the job. It\u2019s an old agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225496eac53c264ca09390bffe75eec40a\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: Political theatre!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5e864e7e467406b803135dcdbbc6fe0\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed, I am in agreement with my Labour colleagues on this. This is an old agenda, and I believe it is an agenda that previous Governments and this Government have moved well away from. The Government is working successfully in terms of trade for both our importers and exporters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWhen I looked at this brief bill, a couple of things struck me. The first thing that struck me was that in terms of trade this is an \u201Call bets are off\u201D type of bill. This bill is like New Zealand taking off its overcoat and exposing everything it has to offer to the world whilst still dealing, in trade terms, with fully clothed opponents. To me, that did not seem to be a very good thing to do. The bill seems to give away any trade advantage that New Zealand has, and we are an exporting nation. Exports are incredibly important to New Zealand and will continue to be important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EAnother aspect of this bill that struck me was that previous trade Ministers, and our own Minister of Trade, the Hon Tim Groser, are working extremely hard to negotiate free-trade agreements. The word \u201Cnegotiate\u201D really captures where New Zealand is at in terms of trade these days, which is that we engage with countries like Hong Kong, China, and the ASEAN countries in negotiations that are not just about tariff rates but also about other aspects of trade with those countries and doing business with them. That might include things such as rights for workers, educational opportunities for both countries, and other such things. Tariffs may form a small part of those negotiations, but I would not have thought it was a very smart move for a small country in the middle of the South Pacific that is very dependent on trade and on forming trade relationships with other countries to just say: \u201COK, come in; it won\u2019t cost you much. We\u2019ll pay a tariff on goods going into your country.\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThis bill may work for importers, but certainly tariffs remain for exporters. As I have already said, we are a country that relies very heavily on exports. The repeal of the Tariff Act would put New Zealand at a huge disadvantage. We would open the door to tariff-free goods, yet our exporters would still face tariffs from our trading partners. The other problem is that we would lose the protection that we currently enjoy under the Tariff Act\u2014that is, we would have no protection from a sudden influx of goods into our country. It has happened before; we are well aware of it. Chinese T-shirts or underpants come to mind. Without the protection of the Tariff Act, I fear that New Zealand would be exposed\u2014possibly the wrong word\u2014to that kind of influx of goods, with little protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI am curious about a term used in the bill, and in Sir Roger Douglas\u2019 speech in reply I invite him to explain it, because I can make neither head nor tail of it. This is a short bill, luckily, and I refer to clause 4(2). He might explain the phrase \u201Cshipment includes loading into an aircraft; and to ship and cognate expressions have corresponding meanings\u201D. I cannot understand what that term means. I am very interested to hear what Sir Roger Douglas makes of it, and I invite him to give us a very clear and full explanation of it. I strongly oppose this outdated, outmoded, and damaging bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022f05995010213499abb245af41220a841\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f05995010213499abb245af41220a841\u0022\u003ESU\u2019A WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E This morning I was released by my whips to attend a community event where several Pacific community leaders who have been involved in a life-changing programme called \u201COTC\u201D, or Off the Couch, were celebrating. This is a programme run by Buck and Lucretia Stowers of Genetics Gym in Manukau. Off the Couch involves some of the heaviest South Auckland men supporting one another to change their lifestyle through exercise and information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI took a taxi from the South Auckland Taxi Association. While talking to the taxi driver, I learnt that he was quite concerned about the Auckland super-city and the impact of that change on him and his family. He was quite free with his views. He revealed to me that he did not like the person whom he called \u201Cthe architect of the super-city\u201D. He did not say any names but simply referred to that person as the \u201Carchitect of the super-city\u201D. He believed that his proposal would be \u201Ca disaster for Auckland\u201D, and then he said: \u201CHe\u2019s only firing the gun, but the bullets are coming from Roger himself.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe \u201CRoger\u201D that this taxi driver referred to this morning is the same Hon Sir Roger Douglas whose bill, the Tariff Act 1988 Repeal Bill, we are debating. The taxi driver had a very vivid memory of losing his job during the Rogernomics period. He did not have a kind word to say at all about Sir Roger Douglas. I confess that I gave the taxi driver a bit of encouragement about that. Our community still has vivid memories of Sir Roger Douglas being responsible for Rogernomics in the 1980s. Tonight in this House in 2010 we are debating the first reading of a bill that is based on the same ideological thinking, which delivers only for the few and not for the many in our country. Sir Roger\u2019s bill aims to remove all taxes on imports. The last time that Sir Roger played around with the removal of tariffs, he practically destroyed many of the industries of that time, particularly in my neighbourhood in M\u0101ngere in Manukau, South Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe wholesale overnight removal of all tariffs, as proposed by the Hon Sir Roger Douglas\u2019 bill, is in our view reckless, and it would have a detrimental impact on many New Zealand industries and jobs, especially on our manufacturing industry. I will quote Peter Conway, Secretary of the Council of Trade Unions: \u201Calthough the level of tariffs provide much less security in respect of local industry and employment than in the past, they still make a difference to sectors such as carpets, clothing, textile and footwear as well as plastics and whiteware.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s unemployment rate has ballooned to over 7 percent under this Government, and it continues to rise. M\u0101ori and Pacific unemployment numbers have hit double digits, and the detrimental impact of being unemployed manifests itself in children going without and missing out on the basic necessities. Some families are falling behind in their power and rent payments. They are risking eviction and power cuts, because they have lost their jobs and cannot find other ones quickly enough. Some families are struggling to meet their mortgage payments, and risk losing their home, because they have been laid off from work. Since the last election, our unemployment rate has soared and it now stands at 30 percent higher than Australia\u2019s rate, which has gone down. If this bill is passed, this Government will risk the livelihoods of many more families, who will lose their jobs as a result of the reckless ideology of the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EMr Douglas will argue that the tariff imposed on imported goods hurts consumers. He will argue that the tariff forces us to pay higher prices for goods. He will say the tariff should be removed so that consumers can have more money in their hand to spend elsewhere. If he is concerned about that, and if this Government is so concerned about additional costs being placed on consumers, they should back down on their proposed increases to GST, because increases to GST mean there will be higher prices in our community. No one voted for increases to GST. No one voted for higher prices for the basics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EWe oppose Sir Roger Douglas\u2019 bill. Labour supports free trade by endeavouring to build free-trade agreements, bilaterally and multilaterally through the World Trade Organization system, not through the reckless unilateral action that this bill proposes. New Zealand already has some of the lowest tariff rates in the world, which benefits our consumers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022f36f74e09ca64cfcbb51b05a096ebfd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f36f74e09ca64cfcbb51b05a096ebfd6\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The point has been made that the Tariff Act 1988 Repeal Bill reflects a rather old agenda, and that must indeed be the case, because, when I was a much younger man\u2014the honourable member in charge of the bill, the Hon Sir Roger Douglas, will be pleased to know this\u2014I engaged in a protest against tariffs. That was at a time when New Zealand had a very diverse and robust manufacturing industry, unlike today. One of the products we manufactured was tyres, and at that time there was a very high tariff placed on the import of tyres, which was well and good, except that it included motorcycle tyres. Of course, we did not manufacture motorcycle tyres locally. So I took part in a protest, which took the form of many of us posting used tyres to our local member of Parliament. I rejoice in remembering the television images of the time, which showed a great pile of tyres arriving in this place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EMore seriously, there are very valid reasons why one would continue to impose tariffs on imported goods. We all enjoy buying cheap products, and tariffs can indeed increase the price of imported products. If the cheapness of those imported products is because the manufacturers are more efficient and use the best technology and better design, then so be it. But most often, or very often, it is the case that cheap imported products are cheap because the people manufacturing them are not being paid what we would consider a reasonable wage, even in the context of their countries. They are not protected by unions and have no choice in the conditions of their employment. Very often products are cheap and arrive at our shores because the environmental measures taken during manufacture in the countries of origin would not be acceptable to us. Using resources carelessly, dumping waste into rivers and drains, and using child labour are all reasons why one would reasonably impose tariffs on goods coming into this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that this bill comes to the House during Fair Trade Fortnight. A few days ago, a number of members from all parties across the House joined a small celebration of fair trade. The idea is that fair-trade products are guaranteed to come from countries, or at least from supply chains, where people are paid reasonably, and where there is some environmental management and control. One can purchase and consume those products with a clear conscience. In fact, there was a proposal that Parliament ought to become a fair-trade workplace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe Greens have always had significant ambivalence about the notion of free trade, because it can simply be a disguise, or a mechanism for allowing us to import products that are not from sources that any of us would find acceptable if we took a moment to look at them, for the reasons that I have outlined. Tariffs are certainly a very legitimate mechanism, even in 2010. They are perhaps a mechanism to be used thoughtfully and lightly, but they have a place. We will certainly be opposing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00228f87092b3fd24e4da2c33cdf9f54275a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f87092b3fd24e4da2c33cdf9f54275a\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 n\u014D t\u0101tou e te Whare. With an 18,000 kilometre coastline and a lack of land borders with other countries, Aotearoa is probably ideally suited to levying border tariffs on imported goods. In fact, tariffs have been a part of Government policies since right back in 1840. I am told that one of the first actions of Governor Hobson was to issue a customs regulation ordinance, which imposed a tariff on alcohol, tobacco, tea, sugar, and grains. These days, however, most goods remain free of tax. I am told that in 2008 about 80 percent of New Zealand\u2019s imports were tariff-free. Some tariffs, of course, are of about 10 percent, and these apply mainly, as other speakers have said, to clothing, footwear, and carpet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI understand Sir Roger\u2019s k\u014Drero that removing the payment of tariffs from importers would have some immediate benefits for consumers, with a likely reduction in the price of imported goods such as cellphones and computers. We know that the immediate income effects of lower consumer prices would inevitably benefit M\u0101ori, and to the extent that tariffs are a tax on exports, there is a school of thought that tariff reduction would benefit M\u0101ori relatively more than other groups. This is in light of the fact that, on average, the M\u0101ori economic base is twice as export-intensive as the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EBut there are a couple of major hitches, and I will outline those at this point. The M\u0101ori Party suggests that opening up the domestic market to a potential flood of imported goods could, and would, undermine locally manufactured goods. We say that this move might threaten our own local manufacturers at a time when we can least afford it, and in the wave of the very successful introduction of the tobacco tax by my co-leader Tariana Turia just last week, it would be devastating if removing tariffs suddenly opened the door to a mass of cheap alcohol and cigarettes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI will raise a couple of other issues very quickly. The first is that this bill is inconsistent with the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s position about the bigger picture of our international relationships. In our policy document, He Aha Te Mea Nui?, we made a commitment that \u201CThe economic benefits of international trade agreements need to be balanced with consideration of our own local, regional and national social progress and environmental enhancement.\u201D That is the first point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe second point is that as a political party, the M\u0101ori Party has opposed all free-trade agreement legislation to date. Our policy position is probably summed up best by saying that we want fair trade, not free trade. We seek a trading partnership that seeks greater equity in international trade, that offers better trading conditions, and that contributes to securing the rights of all workers. We say that more than profit is at stake. We want to see attention paid to labour and environmental justice issues, and to human rights issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFinally, I cannot leave this debate without stating the obvious: the Government has decided against any review of tariffs until 2015 at the earliest. Quite simply, nothing in the 105 words in this tiny little bill convinces us, as the M\u0101ori Party, to disregard our policy position, to turn against our voting history, to short-cut the Government\u2019s deadline, or to support this bill. That will inevitably tell this House that the M\u0101ori Party will not be supporting the bill at its first reading. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00225edbbdec0442405ead5a089774ca49a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225edbbdec0442405ead5a089774ca49a4\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I have heard the M\u0101ori Party member Te Ururoa Flavell talk about principles, and I hope he stands by his principles when the Government comes to introducing the Budget, which will increase GST on food to 15 percent. I hope he has the balls to stand by his principles and vote against the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWe have heard from Labour members and National members, from every party in this House, as to why they will not support the Tariff Act 1988 Repeal Bill. I offer a personal message to Sir Roger Douglas. There are a few of us in this House whose ancestors have trod this path before. There is Todd McClay, whose father was Roger; there is Jonathan Young, whose father was Venn Young; and, although I am a little further removed, I have an ancestor who was here for 38 years. Then, there is Sir Roger Douglas, who was a Minister in the same Cabinet that his father was a Minister in. I remember Sir Roger Douglas as the man behind the concept of compulsory superannuation. I wonder what state our country would be in today if Sir Roger\u2019s vision of compulsory superannuation had been realised and Robert Muldoon had not illegally cut the scheme off. I wonder what it would have looked like today. I think that Sir Roger\u2019s vision of compulsory superannuation would have created an economy far greater in size and scope than the one we have today. So I take my hat off to him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBut I say to Sir Roger that at this point in time it is a game for a different generation. The prestige that he once had is now gone; it is a different game now. What happened to the principles he once stood for that allowed him to stand for Labour and work for the rights of workers? The ACT Party opposed my colleague Darien Fenton\u2019s Employment Relations (Statutory Minimum Redundancy Entitlements) Amendment Bill. That bill represented the rights of the workers\u2014the workers whom Sir Roger Douglas once stood for, stood proud for, and fought for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe Tariff Act 1988 Repeal Bill would remove the tariffs that protect the industry still remaining in this country. It is the ideological thinking of a Sir Roger Douglas who is not connected to the Labour Party. In his younger days in the Kirk Government, he espoused everything that the Labour Party stood for. It is time for Sir Roger to retire. It is time for him to hang up his gloves, put his boots away, and remember the old times. I will remember him for introducing compulsory superannuation, because I think it was an awesome scheme. But this bill is not the bill that he wants to go out on. This bill will not protect New Zealand workers and New Zealand industry. It is not a bill put forward by a Labour Minister from a party that has 94 years of proud legacy. It is not a bill from a man who comes from three generations of Labour Party members of Parliament. It is time for Sir Roger Douglas and the outdated philosophy of the ACT Party to move forward. When it gets to a point where not only Labour but also National, the Greens, Jim Anderton, and Peter Dunne\u2014everyone\u2014oppose that philosophy, it is a sad conclusion to a great Labour Party family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ELabour supports free trade\u2014of course we support free trade. New Zealand\u2019s next Prime Minister, the Hon Phil Goff, signed the free-trade agreement with China. We are the champions of free trade; we believe in free trade. But this bill will not champion free trade. It will not move New Zealand forward; it will move New Zealand back. I am not too sure why Jacqui Dean is offering a rebuttal speech, because she stood up less than 5 minutes ago and supported the stance that I am now taking. This is not a bill for New Zealanders. All I can say to Sir Roger is that I am sad and ashamed that such a proud Labour family is bowing out on such a bill. I will not support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00221f5bd79b52ce4e65bdbb28c34c7d9be9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f5bd79b52ce4e65bdbb28c34c7d9be9\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E What a disgraceful speech that was! That member, Stuart Nash, is as new to the House as I am. He stood up, and, first of all, pretended to heap praise upon a member of this Parliament who has been here for many years representing New Zealanders and constituents, worked hard, and come forward with something that he believes in and believes will help New Zealand. Then Mr Nash made an outright attack on that member of Parliament. I have decided to change my speech a little bit after that disgraceful intervention by the last member. Mr Nash lost all credibility at the end of his intervention when he said that the next Labour Party Prime Minister would be Phil Goff. At that stage everybody on this side of the House, and certainly everybody on that side of the House, switched off and stopped listening. I think there is a reasonable chance that the next Labour Party Prime Minister could be Stuart Nash himself. Would that not be a wonderful, wonderful country to live in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI come directly to the Tariff Act 1988 Repeal Bill. Along with members opposite, I will not be supporting this bill, because I do not believe that it is the best thing we could be doing for the country in terms of trade at this moment. It is a little bit like a can of coconut cream. It looks good and it smells good, and we all want it, but when we dig down a bit deeper, we realise that it is not good for us. I will speak more about that in a moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe thing about trade negotiation is that it is like a game of chess. We do not give up all of our options or all of our advantages before we start playing the game. Unfortunately, this bill before us today would do exactly that. It would mean that when our negotiators went out to negotiate trade agreements on our behalf, we would have given up all of our advantages; all of the things we might trade away for better access for our exporters to other markets would have gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ENew Zealand tariffs are imposed against a very small number of imported products, and at extremely low levels. In 2008, 80 percent of goods imported into New Zealand were tariff-free, with no restriction. Those that did have tariffs imposed against them had tariffs rated at between 5 and 10 percent. As Jacqui Dean, a very capable member of Parliament from the South Island, said, the Tariff Act provides protection for New Zealand industries. A number of industries, perhaps, could not function as well if a large number of foreign goods were imported from other markets. The Minister of Commerce and the Government have the ability to provide some short-term protection through the imposition of tariffs to stop those goods from being imported. I think that is very, very important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ELast year, along with a number of my colleagues and members from the other side of this House, I had an opportunity to visit the Pacific Islands. It was very interesting to have discussions with people there. In fact, in a previous life before coming to this Parliament, I worked very closely with a number of Pacific Islands. I spent a good 4 years with them, negotiating trade access and trade agreements with the European Union. The one thing that the European Union wanted from the Pacific Island countries was increased access, because their tariff rates were very high. Conversely, on the other side, there was not a lot that the Pacific Island countries could offer the European Union\u2014one of the largest trading blocs in the world\u2014and, therefore the Pacific Island countries were very cautious not to give up too much of their protection too quickly. This bill would mean that New Zealand would be giving up too much at a time when we have the ability to negotiate more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI will take the case of Niue, and come back to my analogy of coconut cream. In Niue people go out and pick coconuts. They make wonderful coconut milk and great coconut cream in factories over there. They get to export it to New Zealand without a tariff upon it, at all. Countries in Asia also produce coconut cream, and under the bill they would get access to our country without any tariff restriction, because there is no tariff restriction. Well, that would mean that coconut cream producers in countries like Niue, the Cook Islands, and the many other countries where great coconut cream is produced would be under greater pressure because of this bill. So I think we should not be doing it, at all. As the member opposite has just said, it tastes good, but it is not necessarily good for us. Certainly, this bill would not be good for those producers in the Pacific Islands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI will finish up very, very briefly. If all of our trading partners were doing this tonight, as well, and if all of our trading partners around the world were saying \u201CLet\u2019s get rid of all tariffs.\u201D, that would be fantastic for New Zealand. But, sadly, they are not. Sadly, it will take many years and a lot of hard work on the part of this Government to sign more free-trade agreements in order for us to have freer trade access. Therefore, we must go step by step to do that. I commend the honourable member Sir Roger Douglas for bringing the bill to the House, but National will not be supporting it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022db0c110f779944c192a2589220a24578\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db0c110f779944c192a2589220a24578\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E When I listened to the member from M\u0101ngere, I was reminded of a story that I think is very relevant. I recall a taxi trip I had from my home to the airport in 1990. I asked the taxi driver, a Samoan who lived in \u014Ctara, how business was. He looked at me and said: \u201CWell, not all that fantastic, not that good.\u201D I asked him why, thinking I would get a story about the deregulated taxi industry, leading to too many taxis, as the reason he was not doing well. But he said: \u201CI am not doing all that well, but I am not complaining about it, because a lot of my customers now own their own cars. Because you\u2019ve reduced the price so much, as a result of lowering tariffs, etc., my customers can now afford a car. So instead of having to get a taxi to take them home after they have been to the local grocery store, they can drive themselves home.\u201D The fact is that because the Labour Government of the 1980s lowered tariffs in respect of cars and opened up that particular industry, a whole lot of people who could not own cars suddenly could do so. I think the Labour Party should think about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EMr Nash, I think, was trying to give me some sort of lecture. Given that Mr Nash gave me so much advice, I thought I might be able to give him a little bit of advice. I think he should start apologising to all those young M\u0101ori who are out of work\u201438 percent, after 9 years of a Labour Government. Thirty eight percent of young M\u0101ori are out of work. I think that Mr Nash should start to apologise to them. I think he should say sorry to every superannuitant in the country. When the State controls our entitlement to superannuation, as it does, then it will undoubtedly discriminate against those groups who have shorter lives. Our present system, which, of course, was amended and changed by the Labour Government over the last 9 years, discriminates against M\u0101ori and Pacific Islanders, in particular. So I think those Labour members should apologise for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EI think Labour members should apologise for the populist vote-buying they entered into over 9 years, which left the country in debt, and left us with a deficit of 7 or 8 percent of GDP. I think they should apologise for the way in which they discriminated against low-income earners, and got them to pay for the children of the wealthy to go to university. I could go on. The last Labour Government tried to buy votes. It was a Government that spent over and above the rate of inflation by about $18 billion\u2014in other words, for a family of four it imposed an extra $20,000 a year in costs. So if anyone needs to apologise, I think we should start with the Labour Party, and with Mr Nash in particular.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002259c1bc66e6b14a978de35e11e87df8ce\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Tariff Act 1988 Repeal Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 116\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ac64d54d1bc94b64a42ba3a2a775d473\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002251c1036495564e3ea65b828157bbcd60\u0022\u003ENuclear Disarmament\u2014Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons Review Conference\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00223d6f13d88d214cca9daac42ce346ba29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d6f13d88d214cca9daac42ce346ba29\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That this House recognise the historic opportunity to advance the cause of nuclear disarmament at the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) Review Conference May 3-28; acknowledge the leadership on this issue by United States President Barack Obama; and call on the New Zealand Government to take an active role in this issue, drawing on our country\u2019s proud nuclear-free stance, working together with other like-minded nations to support the United Nations Secretary-General\u2019s Five Point Plan for Nuclear Disarmament including preparations for the development of a Nuclear Weapons Convention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EFor more than two decades nuclear disarmament efforts have floundered, but a year ago in Prague a new US President declared America\u2019s commitment to seek the peace and security of a world without nuclear weapons. Since then, the world has watched keenly, hoping that this generation will break the deadlock. In recent months we have seen the green shoots of an antinuclear spring. The US and Russia have negotiated a treaty to reduce their stockpiles. The US Government has conducted its Nuclear Posture Review. Some NATO States have called for the removal of nuclear weapons from Europe. President Obama hosted last month a summit in Washington to keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of terrorists. Now, Governments gather in New York to review the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. The world is watching with high hopes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ETwenty-three years ago we were ostracised by our traditional friends because of Labour\u2019s antinuclear law. That reinforced in our nation a deep commitment to our nuclear-free policy as a symbol of our rejection of nuclear deterrence and our concern for the planet. That the Prime Minister was invited to Washington by the United States specifically because of our nuclear-free status speaks volumes about the fact that the world has caught up with New Zealand on this issue. But now is not the time to rest on our laurels. Now is the time to lead. We did it before, and we can do it again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EOthers are looking to us. Former Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser and former Australian Foreign Minister Gareth Evans both visited New Zealand in recent months, urging the Government to take a leadership role on this issue. US Vice-President Joe Biden said to the Prime Minister: \u201CNew Zealand could play a leadership role working with other countries demonstrating that the world free of nuclear weapons would be a better place.\u201D But the Prime Minister did not even mention New Zealand\u2019s nuclear-free status in the three-page document he presented to the Nuclear Security Summit. To the Prime Minister I say: \u201CDon\u2019t be an antinuclear lion in the New Zealand media, and a mouse in Washington or New York.\u201D His comments on the nuclear issues seem to be only for a domestic audience, and, as some commentators have observed, he seemed to be using the access gained by our antinuclear credentials to leverage a free-trade agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWell, I say to this National Government that trade is vital to our nation, but it is not everything. New Zealanders are passionately antinuclear. We want our nation to be a voice of conscience to argue the antinuclear case in the streets, at the World Court, and at international meetings. If we can make a difference and make this world safer for our grandchildren, we should. But it will take courage. We will have to stand up and be counted, and sometimes disagree with powerful friends. Norman Kirk did it, David Lange did it, Helen Clark did it, and history recognises them for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWe can continue to work patiently at initiatives to build confidence in disarmament, getting weapons off their hair-trigger alert, and building support for nuclear-weapon-free zones. But the challenge now is to lift our eyes to the bigger goal. The United Nations Secretary-General, Ban Ki-moon, has proposed a five-point plan to get us there. New Zealand should explicitly commit to the plan and work with other like-minded nations to build support for it. The Government should call for preparatory talks on a process leading to the nuclear weapons convention. Many MPs in this House have already endorsed that call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI want to finish with a quote from President Obama, from his Prague speech: \u201CHuman destiny will be what we make of it. \u2026 let us honor our past by reaching for a better future. Let us bridge our divisions, build upon our hopes, and accept our responsibility to leave this world more prosperous and more peaceful than we found it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u002291476024ebcc4766985502ba54de8fe5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291476024ebcc4766985502ba54de8fe5\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E As a foundation member of International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War and a member of Parliamentarians for Nuclear Non-proliferation and Disarmament, it gives me great pleasure to speak on this motion. This National Government remains totally committed to the goal of a nuclear-weapon-free world. As we speak, the Minister for Disarmament and Arms Control, the Hon Georgina te Heuheu, and New Zealand officials are heavily engaged in the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty Review Conference being held in New York. As Minister Georgina te Heuheu said earlier today to the 189 non-proliferation treaty States parties assembled in New York, these are issues that New Zealanders feel passionately about. That passion has been borne out over many years and through the contribution of many members of this House and the broader community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThe nuclear non-proliferation treaty is often described as the cornerstone of the global nuclear disarmament and non-proliferation regime. It is the only multilateral treaty that contains a commitment to nuclear disarmament. New Zealand was one of the first countries to sign the non-proliferation treaty in 1968. The vision of a nuclear-weapon-free world has been adopted by all New Zealanders and is one that this Government proudly supports. As the Minister said in her statement at the UN this morning, the issues at the heart of the treaty are of a global nature. We are all impacted by the proliferation of nuclear weapons, and we would all suffer the catastrophic consequences of nuclear war.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EPresident Obama\u2019s leadership on nuclear issues has been largely responsible for reinvigorating the debate. When he spoke in Prague in April of this year, he expressed America\u2019s commitment to seek the peace and security of a world without nuclear weapons. More recently, the US and Russia signed a new treaty on nuclear weapons reduction, and the US released its own Nuclear Posture Review, which marked a significant break from the past. Yesterday, the US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, announced that the US would be taking the important step of working to ratify the protocols to the South Pacific Nuclear Free Zone Treaty. The UN Secretary-General\u2019s Five-Point Plan on Nuclear Disarmament is also lending momentum to global nuclear disarmament efforts, as the Minister acknowledged in her statement to the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty Review Conference today. The New Zealand Government welcomes these initiatives as concrete steps towards nuclear disarmament, but our delegation at the conference will be working for real disarmament commitments from all nuclear-weapon States.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003ECentral to New Zealand\u2019s nuclear disarmament engagement at the conference is our membership of the New Agenda Coalition, which will be pressing the review conference to adopt a number of practical recommendations that would significantly advance the world towards the elimination of nuclear weapons. New Zealand is also coordinating a group of States calling for action to address the significant number of nuclear weapons that still exist today on high alert, and to bring an end to a Cold War legacy. We will also be working closely with Australia on promoting greater transparency from nuclear-weapon States as an essential confidence-building measure, and supporting a Canadian initiative to address the non-proliferation treaty\u2019s need for better working methods.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThe motion put to the House today supports the development of a nuclear weapons convention that would outlaw the possession and use of nuclear weapons. This Government firmly believes that a legally binding instrument or framework of instruments governing the elimination of nuclear weapons will one day be required as we progress towards a world without those weapons. For that reason, New Zealand regularly supports a resolution at the UN General Assembly that calls for negotiation leading to a convention. As the Prime Minister stated in the House in April last year, our support for those negotiations is conditional upon the time being right. We need to deploy our resources where they will have the most effect. New Zealand\u2019s approach has therefore been to support a nuclear weapons convention as a long-term goal, but in the meantime to focus on practical measures that will lessen the importance and number of nuclear weapons, and further diminish their threat. Our engagement at the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty Review Conference is focused on just those measures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee3a41335e234f37aa48761cb60b69d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee3a41335e234f37aa48761cb60b69d9\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support Mr Twyford\u2019s motion, members\u2019 motion No. 1. This House is asked to do three things: first, to recognise the historic opportunity to advance the cause of nuclear disarmament at the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons treaty conference that is currently under way; secondly, to recognise the leadership on this issue by US President Obama; and, thirdly, to call on the New Zealand Government to take an active role on this issue, drawing on our proud nuclear-free stance and supporting the UN\u2019s five-point plan, including preparation for a nuclear weapons convention. Let us scrutinise each of those matters without any euphoria over the global opportunity for nuclear disarmament or New Zealand\u2019s role in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThe one historic opportunity for nuclear disarmament came and went in 1946, when the US, which was at the time the only country that possessed nuclear weapons, offered the Baruch Plan to place atomic energy under international control. Global strategic relations since that ill-fated attempt have taken the schizoid character of a determination by the five permanent Security Council members to accumulate nuclear weapons in their national arsenals, while preventing other States from doing the same. So we need to distinguish between nuclear disarmament and nuclear non-proliferation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThe non-proliferation treaty is an agreement to limit the spread of nuclear weapons to non - nuclear weapon States. It recognises the de facto possession of nuclear weapons by the five permanent members of the Security Council. That possession was justified for 40 years on the grounds of the need for there to be a mutual deterrent during the Cold War. When the Cold War ended, the rationale switched to retaining nuclear weapons as a prudential hedge in an uncertain world, and also as the currency of global power. Today it rests largely on the proclaimed need to deter nuclear terrorism. The strategic policy of NATO speaks, as always before, of the retention of nuclear weapons into the indefinite future at the lowest level necessary to preserve international peace and security\u2014a haughty and patronising attitude, redolent of 19th century alliance diplomacy. The non-proliferation treaty includes, as the quid pro quo for the original agreement, an undertaking by the five permanent members to negotiate nuclear disarmament measures in good faith. The World Court judged back in 1996 that it was a binding obligation not just to negotiate but also to reach agreement on nuclear disarmament. That, of course, has not been done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThe positive rhetoric of the US President is a welcome change from the benighted and wilfully ignorant policy of his predecessor, but Mr Obama does not expect nuclear disarmament to occur in his lifetime. This relieves him of any responsibility to proceed with haste. Reducing the levels by 30 percent, to 1,550 nuclear strategic warheads each, will simply make the rubble bounce fewer times. It does not penetrate the barrier of minimal deterrence, nor will it do so until the legitimacy and effectiveness of global collective security through conventional weaponry is achieved, with nuclear weapons actually being dismantled. It would, in fact, be possible for the two major powers to dismantle their strategic arsenals in roughly the same amount of time that it took them to build them up: about 10 years. India recognised this in its proposals back in the 1980s, with its 20-year programme for a nuclear-free world. Failure by the five permanent members to make progress in this respect prompted India and Pakistan to emulate them. Israel, of course, is offered the special treatment of a duplicitous silence by superpower decree. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EWe in New Zealand have succumbed to a bout of narcissistic preening over our nuclear-free policy. I was, and remain, a supporter of that policy. I did my PhD on the subject, and I was part of the New Zealand delegation that negotiated the South Pacific zone. But there has always been a distinction between the strict nuclear-free policy that applies here in our national territory and the ambivalent stance that we take at the United Nations regarding a nuclear-free world. To this day, we still vote along political, rather than logical, lines on nuclear disarmament at the United Nations. Only when New Zealand declares its readiness to commence negotiations for a nuclear weapons convention that can be implemented over 20 years can this country stand true to its proclaimed nuclear-free policy. Until then, we remain encapsulated within the NATO reliance on nuclear weapons and remain pliant with our deployment of conventional armed forces overseas. Our SAS and provincial reconstruction team in Afghanistan operate effectively under NATO strategic direction, not that of the United Nations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ELet us wish the non-proliferation treaty conference well, let us wish President Obama well, and let us start to vote consistently for a nuclear-free world at the United Nations and take a leading role in working towards a nuclear weapons convention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2c38175d2754501a2e3f60dce0aa14d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2c38175d2754501a2e3f60dce0aa14d\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of the ACT Party, I rise to support this motion. We could hardly do otherwise. The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons is a bit like mum and apple pie: no one could possibly be against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022598820bffe5b4543a21768fd7d813026\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Motherhood and apple pie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2e53df8817c48b5bfc26792c217b180\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: Motherhood\u2014I thank the member. It has been around for many years. Even Phil Twyford, who moved the motion, was unable to tell me exactly since when, but we settled on it being many years prior to the Cold War. Certainly, times change. I recall being at university in the late 1980s, where I joined my fellow students, who were 10 years younger than me, in tittering sneeringly at the idea that \u201CMAD\u201D\u2014mutually assured destruction\u2014was indeed mad. But here we are, 20 years later, and I wonder whether the idea of mutually assured destruction did work, and whether the certainty of mutual annihilation prevented it from happening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EAlthough times have changed and the Cold War is over, one thing has not changed. I recall that 20 years ago nuclear terrorism had already been identified at that university as a threat for the future. University dons do not always get things right, but they were right about that one. Global thermonuclear war will probably never happen\u2014thank God\u2014but, sadly, nuclear terrorism probably will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EThe non-proliferation treaty rationale was to keep the nuclear club no larger than it was when the treaty was first entered into. It failed. Israel, South Africa, North Korea, India, Pakistan, and probably Iran\u2014not Iraq, we now know\u2014got nuclear weapons anyway, so, in that sense, it was a failure. However, no one can disagree, as I said at the beginning, with strengthening the non-proliferation treaty and re-injecting life into it. That can only be a good thing. But, as I have said, times have changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EThe real threat that was predicted in the late 1980s has now come to pass. I may be mistaken, but there was a suggestion that the bomb that was to be let off in New York the other day was a dirty bomb. It was a so-called explosive bomb designed to fling about fissile material, not a nuclear device as such. That is the real threat. Sadly, it does not much matter even if Dr Graham\u2019s fantasy comes true and all of the members and the non-members of the club disarm. There will still be a whole heap of fissile material floating around the world to fall into the hands of radical Islamic terrorists, or of any other terrorists for that matter. That is the real threat, and it does not matter how well the treaty machinery does its job. The real task is to eliminate fissile material from the world, and that will not be easy. It is a major problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003ENotwithstanding that, we should support nuclear disarmament\u2014of course we should. The world can only be a better place without weapons of mass destruction. But we also need to face the fact that we have a major problem with nuclear terrorism that is linked, sadly, to religious radicalism, but not linked solely to it. I believe that the next challenge will not be disarming the superpowers, the members of the club, and the non-members of the club, but it will be accounting for and containing, if not destroying, fissile material that could well destroy us if it falls into the hands of people who are not only unafraid to die but also very keen to die. That is a whole new concern and a great worry, but we are certainly in favour of this motion. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9bb8ce005a24e6fa46212947207b2eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9bb8ce005a24e6fa46212947207b2eb\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. Kia ora an\u014D t\u0101tau katoa e hoa m\u0101. Rua wiki kua hipa ake i t\u016B au ki roto i te whare o te United Nations i roto i te \u0101huatanga o te whakah\u012Bh\u012B m\u014D te t\u016B o Aotearoa i a ia e k\u014Drero ana m\u014D ng\u0101 iwi taketake o te ao. M\u0113n\u0101 ka t\u016B koe ki roto i t\u0113r\u0101 whare kua m\u014Dhio tonu koe, ar\u0101 noa atu te wh\u0101nui, te wh\u0101roa o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero kua k\u014Drerohia e p\u0101 ana ki ng\u0101 take o te ao. N\u014D reira, ka m\u0101rama tonu i a koe e t\u016B ana ki reira, \u0113, m\u014D \u0113nei take p\u0113nei i t\u0113nei n\u0101, he take nui, he take h\u014Dhonu e p\u0101 ana ki te wh\u0101nuitanga o te ao. N\u014D reira, anei te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori kua tae mai ki t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 kaupapa, e t\u016B whakah\u012Bh\u012B nei m\u014D te t\u016B o Aotearoa ki te mau p\u016Bmau ki t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 kaupapa, ar\u0101, kia w\u0101tea a Aotearoa ki \u0113nei momo take kia noho nuclear free tonu a Aotearoa. Me k\u012B, kei te whakaae atu ki te \u0101huatanga i t\u0113nei w\u0101 tonu nei, te w\u0101 e k\u014Drerohia ana ng\u0101 take nei m\u014D te nuclear disarmament i roto i t\u0113r\u0101 tiriti e k\u014Drerohia ana ko te non-proliferation of nuclear weapons, i te hui, ki taku m\u014Dhio i roto o Amerika i ng\u0101 r\u0101 tata kua hipa, \u0101, tae r\u0101 n\u014D ki te mutunga o t\u0113nei m\u0101rama. Kai te tautoko ake i te \u0101huatanga o te k\u014Drero a te mema P\u0101remata a Phil Twyford, n\u0101na t\u0113nei take i k\u014Dkiri ki roto i te Whare P\u0101remata, ka mihi r\u0101 ki a ia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u014D ng\u0101 rua, toru wiki pea kua hipa ake, i tautoko ake te tiamana o te Centre for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation i te \u0101huatanga o te t\u016B o Aotearoa m\u014D t\u0113nei take. Ka mutu, i tautoko ake te ngako o t\u0113nei kaupapa. Lieutenant General Robert Gard mai i Amerika i Washington tonu i a ia e k\u014Drero ana m\u014D te Nuclear Security Summit. Ko tana k\u014Drero he whakanui i a Aotearoa \u201Chei toa\u201D m\u014D ng\u0101 take e k\u014Drerohia nei. Ka mutu, m\u014D te toa o Aotearoa ki te whakakore momo p\u016B e k\u014Drerohia ana, ka mutu, ki te whai i ng\u0101 tikanga here kia whakakore i \u0113nei momo p\u016B kino nei, me k\u012B. Ka mutu, me t\u016B whakah\u012Bh\u012B a Aotearoa n\u0101 runga i te \u0101huatanga o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero o te Rt Hon David Lange, te w\u0101 i a ia Pirimia ana, toru tekau tau kua hipa ake. N\u0101na t\u0113nei take i heri ki mua i te aroaro o te ao i t\u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 tau patupatu i R\u0101nana i Ingarangi tonu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI ng\u0101 tau 1980s, ko te R\u014Dp\u016B Reipa i t\u016B tonu ki mua i te aroaro o te ao ki te whakatau, ki te k\u012B atu ki te ao, ehara a Aotearoa i te w\u0101hi tika m\u014D \u0113r\u0101 momo waka, kia haramai ki Aotearoa nei me aua momo p\u016B, kua noho w\u0101tea tonu a Aotearoa i \u0113r\u0101 momo p\u016B. Ka mutu, ko t\u0101 Aotearoa he whakakore i t\u0113r\u0101 momo wh\u0101inga hei tiaki i t\u014D t\u0101tau ake whenua. He k\u012B atu, waiho \u0113r\u0101 take ki w\u0101hi k\u0113, ar\u0101, te nuclear armament. No reira, n\u0101 runga i t\u0113r\u0101 whakaaro ake anei t\u0101tau e k\u014Drero nei me te noho \u0101hua rangirua tonu t\u0113nei n\u0101 runga i te mea, rau tau kua hipa ake ko te R\u014Dp\u016B Reipa i whakah\u0113 i \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 whakataunga i k\u014Dkirihia e te United Nations General Assembly ki te whakanui i te \u0101huatanga o te nuclear-free world. E toru ng\u0101 whakataunga i puta, \u0101, me p\u0113nei rawa k\u014Drerohia ki roto i te reo P\u0101keh\u0101, tuatahi, the major powers to reduce their nuclear arsenals, tuarua, stated that the use of nuclear weapons would constitute a violation of the charter, tuatoru, perceives nuclear weapons as posing \u201Cthe most serious threat to the survival of mankind\u201D. N\u014D reira, anei au e whakaaro ake ana, he aha te take e p\u0113nei ana te \u0101huatanga o te R\u014Dp\u016B Reipa, e k\u014Dkiri nei i t\u0113nei take engari n\u014D ng\u0101 toru tau kua hipa, i whakah\u0113 nei i ng\u0101 whakataunga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EHoi an\u014D, he k\u014Drero h\u012Btori t\u0113r\u0101, he k\u014Drero n\u014D ng\u0101 tau kua hipa. Engari t\u014Dna mutunga mai, i tautoko a Aotearoa i te taha o ng\u0101 whenua o NATO, i te taha o Ahitereiria, he mema katoa i raro i te korowai o te global nuclear alliance o te Hononga o Amerika. N\u014D reira, anei t\u0101tau i t\u0113nei p\u014D e k\u014Drero ana i te take nei me te whakaaro ake t\u0113r\u0101 pea, kua huri te K\u0101wangatanga hou nei ki te \u0101ta titiro ki ng\u0101 take kua k\u014Dkirihia k\u0113tia e \u0113tahi, ka mutu, ka \u0101ta titiro ki te painga m\u014D Aotearoa. N\u014D reira, kai te tino whakaae atu, ka mihi r\u0101 ki te tangata nei ki a Matua Twyford me tana whakahou an\u014D r\u0101 i t\u014Dna ake r\u014Dp\u016B m\u014D ng\u0101 take kua k\u014Drerohia, ka mutu, te t\u016Bmanako ia ka t\u016B an\u014D a Aotearoa \u201Chei toa\u201D m\u014D t\u0113nei take te nuclear disarmament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKei te tautoko te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i te whakataunga o te Tumuaki o te Kotahitanga o ng\u0101 Whenua o te Ao, a Ban Ki-moon, i a ia e k\u014Dkiri ana i t\u0113nei take m\u014D te United Nations Security Council summit m\u014D \u0113nei take, kei te \u0101hua ohorere tonu m\u014D te nui o te p\u016Btea ka whakapauhia i runga i \u0113nei momo p\u016B. E ai ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, hipa noa atu i te $1 trillion, k\u0101ore au i m\u014Dhio te ingoa M\u0101ori m\u014D te \u201Ctrillion\u201D, engari, t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero t\u0113r\u0101; trillion t\u0101ra e whakapauhia e Amerika ki runga i \u0113nei momo p\u016B. He mea nui t\u0113r\u0101, he aha te h\u0113 o te whakapau ki runga i te hunga p\u014Dhara. \u0100, hoi an\u014D kai te tautoko te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i te \u0101huatanga o Aotearoa, kia tau te rongomau, te rangim\u0101rie ki runga i te ao. N\u014D reira, me whai i t\u0113r\u0101 kia kore whakapau moni ki te hoko p\u016B, ka mutu, ka tautoko ake i te t\u016B o ng\u0101 five-point plan i k\u014Dkirihia e Ban Ki-moon, hei whakatau i \u0113nei momo take i te ao. N\u0101 runga i t\u0113r\u0101 whakaaro, ka mihi ki te mema, ki te Whare t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora t\u0101tau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and to us all, fellow colleagues, once again. It has been 2 weeks since I stood proudly in the United Nations building as the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, the Hon Dr Pita Sharples, addressed the indigenous peoples of the world on New Zealand\u2019s position. It is not until one stands in that building and experiences it for oneself that one realises just how broad and far-reaching statements impact on the world at large. So the M\u0101ori Party members come to this issue among the ones before us, proud of our stance to ensure that the Nuclear Free Policy remains in New Zealand. We agree to the circumstance at this moment right now; and during the discussions on issues relating to nuclear disarmament at the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons conference, to my knowledge America was involved in days just past, and right up to the end of this month. I support Phil Twyford, who proposed and brought this matter before the House, and acknowledge him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIn the past 2 or 3 weeks, the chair of the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation reinforced our unique standing on this issue, supporting the nub of this policy. Lieutenant General Robert Gard, from Washington, in talking about the Nuclear Security Summit, said that New Zealand has been a \u201Cchampion\u201D in pressing nuclear weapons States to meet their obligations and disarm. Further to that, New Zealand can be proud of the stand taken some 30 years ago under the leadership of the late Rt Hon David Lange as Prime Minister, when he took this issue before the world in one of the debates in London in the very heart of England. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EDuring the 1980s Labour stood up in the world by banning nuclear ships and declaring New Zealand nuclear-free. At the same time, New Zealand rejected the possibility of nuclear deterrence as part of a national security strategy, and stated quite firmly that nuclear armament should be taken to somewhere else. In that context, I am somewhat perplexed, because just 2 years ago Labour opposed some resolutions that the United Nations General Assembly put forward to promote a nuclear-free world. Three resolutions were as follows, and I will put them in English. The first one called for the major powers to reduce their nuclear arsenals; the second one stated that the use of nuclear weapons would constitute a violation of the charter; and the third perceived nuclear weapons as posing \u201Cthe most serious threat to the survival of mankind\u201D. So here I am wondering why Labour members should be putting this matter forward, when just 3 years ago they opposed the resolutions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EBut never mind, that was just a historical account of the past. At the end of it all, New Zealand, with NATO countries and Australia, voted in favour of being members of the United States global nuclear alliance. So here we are tonight, talking about this matter, and confident at the same time that the new Government is prepared to review decisions and act in the best interests of New Zealand. We totally agree with that, and recognise Mr Twyford\u2019s efforts in turning his party\u2019s viewpoint round in respect of the issues that were discussed. The real hope is that New Zealand will once again be seen as a champion of nuclear disarmament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party supports the call from the United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon that set the context for the United Nations Security Council summit on these issues. But we are still amazed at the size of the funding spent on nuclear weapons. According to estimated costs, it far exceeds $1 trillion. I do not know what the M\u0101ori word for trillion is, but that is another issue; more than $1.3 trillion is being spent by the United States on nuclear arms. That is staggering. What is wrong with spending that amount on the poor? Nevertheless, the M\u0101ori Party supports peacekeeping functions in the world, and advocates that money should not be spent on arms. In addition, we support the five-point plan put forward by Ban Ki-moon to address this kind of global issue. On that thought, I acknowledge the member and the House by extending greetings to you and to us.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022e13be60a907d4ae39025fff5bf3cdbed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e13be60a907d4ae39025fff5bf3cdbed\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of United Future to support the resolution moved by Mr Twyford. I acknowledge his role in bringing this resolution before the House. I generally concur with the remarks made by the other speakers in this debate. I cut my political teeth on the campaign in 1971-72 to oppose French nuclear testing at Mururoa atoll. I vividly recall the image of Norman Kirk standing on the dock in Devonport in 1973 as HMNZS Otago, as it was at that stage, was farewelled to be the beacon of hope for New Zealand in the Mururoa test zone. I recall Norman Kirk saying we may only be a small country, but we could send a signal to the rest of the world. The fact that New Zealand and Australia combined shortly thereafter to take a case to the International Court of Justice, called the World Court in those days, and won that case regarding the illegality of the French efforts, gave some substance to what was a mounting campaign in this country at that time against the use of nuclear energy and on antinuclear issues not only in this country but on an international scale, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EIn that same vein, I say one of the proudest moments, if not the proudest moment, that I have had as a member of Parliament was being in Los Angeles in 1985, when David Lange passed through on his way north to the Oxford Union debate. I was heading back to New Zealand as a young MP at that stage. I went to a dinner that was hosted on his behalf at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles, in the very hotel\u2014in the very room\u2014 that Robert Kennedy had been in shortly before his assassination a few years earlier. During the course of a very hostile dinner, which was attended by a largely American audience that was sceptical about the New Zealand Prime Minister and this country\u2019s attitudes, Lange was getting a fairly rough time. At the end of the dinner\u2014members have to imagine the back wall of the dining room was lined with television cameras\u2014a rather large drooping-moustached, cigar-chomping, American reporter got up and said: \u201CPrime Minister, you are on your way to Oxford to debate the morality of nuclear weapons with Jerry Falwell. He will have the Bible in one hand and a cross in the other, and be arguing in favour of nuclear weapons. What can you possibly say in response to him?\u201D. Prime Minister Lange leapt to his feet and said: \u201CI will tell him that to err is human, but that I am prepared to forgive him.\u201D At that point, the approximately 400 people in the room leapt to their feet in a spontaneous standing ovation\u2014including a group of senators that I had been at the same table with, who had spent the entire previous 2 hours deriding everything that Lange stood for and had said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EAs a Kiwi, it was a moment of extraordinary pride to see our Prime Minister\u2014let us forget party allegiances at that point\u2014getting up there and essentially winning over an international audience. So it was to be in the Oxford Union debate held a little later\u2014which to this day I have never actually seen, because I was in the air at the time. What those two events did for me, and I think for the country as a whole, was to give us some credibility in terms of nuclear non-proliferation issues. We were never going to be a nuclear power; that was never an issue as far as New Zealand was concerned. But I come back to what I think we can be, and what this resolution is all about: that moral beacon that Norman Kirk spoke of way back in 1973. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe challenge that now arises\u2014and I pick up Dr Kennedy Graham\u2019s point\u2014is how we should give effect to what is a domestic sense of commitment, in an international environment. This resolution and the actions that would flow from it, if it is adopted, give some substance to the antinuclear cause, so I think that supporting the resolution is the appropriate thing to do. I think, also, that credit must be given to the New Zealand position as reflected by the Prime Minister in Washington just recently. This has been the result of an accumulation of effort over the years. It is important that we take advantage of the opportunities that are provided to us in the international forum and of the standing that we do have, and have acquired, to continue to push those issues, which have been very important to many New Zealanders over a long period of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI congratulate the mover of this motion. I am delighted to think it will pass with unanimous endorsement in this House, but I come back to Dr Graham\u2019s point. These resolutions are all very well, but there is a wonderful quote from Bismarck that is appropriate in these circumstances. It is to the effect that the actions that flow from this resolution will be what is important, not the mere passage of the resolution itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002216fc059078eb41979598dab72bf2e4ec\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220f6c62826f80463298e3ab58d9d66642\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5d1caa3fd0e4a28bd4a02b56fcfd179\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5d1caa3fd0e4a28bd4a02b56fcfd179\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E We have made excellent progress this afternoon and this evening; therefore, I seek the leave of the House for the House to now rise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227add795f43124426a4b99b824353b065\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. P\u014D m\u0101rie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201005058173e033c91a4d128a8f525ad4f0197f000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.21 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"