"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002250d618e277ed40b78316b26229cf1e1f\u0022\u003ETuesday, 22 June 2010\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c3cfd54e885e47c5a99b4235d21cee33\u0022\u003ETuesday, 22 June 2010\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225766856ec9454c5c946cd767ecba6f9d\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022395f9c6ec4344bb39b0f32594e0ac51f\u0022\u003EAll Whites\u2014Draw with Italy at Football World Cup\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022321c032905a34f66be49c99af21ea4e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022321c032905a34f66be49c99af21ea4e8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Acting Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to move a motion without notice congratulating the All Whites.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ef78ae1235945699ca8817a6ed14914\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course being followed? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa86420792ca43779dd77f71d3311bf6\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the House congratulate the All Whites on their stunning result in drawing one-all with Italy at the Football World Cup in South Africa. The All Whites showed all the courage, ability, and character that we know they possess to achieve New Zealand\u2019s best result yet in world football. They ran themselves to a standstill in what was a nail-biting and tremendously exciting game. They can take great pride in their result, and I am sure that all New Zealanders will join with me in saying how proud we are of them. The Prime Minister was in Nelspruit, South Africa, for the game and personally congratulated coach Ricki Herbert, captain Ryan Nelsen, and the team. Sport is very important to New Zealand and New Zealanders. With sport we can celebrate passion, skill, hard work, dedication, team building, and success\u2014all attributes demonstrated so well by the All Whites. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EOn behalf of the Government, I wish the All Whites all the best for their game against Paraguay. I know they will play their hearts out for us, and I believe they have the ability and determination to win and make it through to the next round. More than 4 million Kiwis will be cheering them on all the way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00224d734c8e413e45df800be09795cc6cfb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d734c8e413e45df800be09795cc6cfb\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of the New Zealand Labour Party I join with the Government in supporting this motion and join with Kiwis all over the world in congratulating Ricki Herbert and the magnificent All Whites. It was an amazing result yesterday, and it caused the world to sit up and take notice of a superbly performing New Zealand sports team. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EBut Monday was just the latest stage in a momentous journey by the All Whites. I had the privilege last year of being at Westpac Stadium to see the All Whites beat Bahrain to win a place in the World Cup. That, at the time, felt like a victory\u2014a victory that saw the All Whites going to the Football World Cup for the first time in 28 years. But then they just kept on performing. There was the win in the warm-up round against Serbia; there was the draw with Slovakia; and, of course, on Monday there was that fantastic one-all draw against Italy\u2014the world champions, the fifth-ranked side in the world, and a team packed with stars from European clubs all over the Continent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EIt was a fantastic result, and it was great to see the European media, who had been disparaging about New Zealand chances, having to eat their words and describe the fantastic performance of the All Whites as it was. We know we are doing well in the world when even the Aussies try to bask in the reflected glory and praise the Australasian success in the World Cup. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThere is no doubt that New Zealand started as the underdog in this competition. People said we could never do it. But with character, with commitment, with determination, and with courage the All Whites have done us proud. To Ricki Herbert\u2014who, I have to say, is from my and David Shearer\u2019s old school of Papatoetoe High School; all of us want to bask in that reflected glory\u2014to Ryan Nelsen, the captain, who has done just an absolutely brilliant job; to Mark Paston, who was outstanding as goalkeeper; and to all the team we say: \u201CWell done, lads.\u201D The dream is still alive, and everyone in this Chamber wishes you well for a victory over Paraguay on Friday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022c80a9620d3e344b2aff68a4f850d4565\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c80a9620d3e344b2aff68a4f850d4565\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to once again stand in this House to speak about the ongoing revelation that is the All Whites\u2019 2010 World Cup campaign. This is one of those \u201Cdare to dream\u201D moments, which is coming true before our eyes. New Zealand, lest we need to pinch ourselves to believe it, is on the verge of qualifying for the second round of the World Cup finals. FIFA\u2019s 2-minute online highlights package of yesterday\u2019s match against Italy makes us look like footballing giants. There we are, on the world\u2019s biggest sporting stage, scoring effortlessly and early against the world champions, and then defending our goal like heroes from an old war movie. I might add that in this international Olympic week there was also on display some talent in another Olympic sport, that of diving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ff5b325d9fd486c85c36665a172f24c\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: On the field?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228470dbea126d4ad6b64b4c2079ebd4be\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE\u003C/span\u003E: I am speaking, of course, of Mark Paston\u2019s outstanding exhibition in goal! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003ESport is often used as a metaphor for life itself, and our sports teams often exemplify the values and character that we aspire to as a nation: success through teamwork, the innovation and resourcefulness of a goal-scoring attack, or the gritty determination of the dogged defence that we saw yesterday. To be honest, the last 20 minutes of our game against Italy gave me glimpses of the kind of spirit that our soldiers must have experienced in places as far-flung as the beaches of Gallipoli or the foothills of Crete. Italy could come up with nothing to break the impermeable defence, ably led by \u201CCaptain Courageous\u201D Ryan Nelsen. Our goalie, Mark Paston, played the game of his life, frustrating some of the highest-paid strikers in the world, and with Killen, Wood, Smeltz, and Fallon up front, making the most of any chances they had on goal, Italy started to look like they were lucky to come away from the match with a point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe All Whites\u2019 holding the current world champions of football to a one-all draw over 94 minutes left me both breathless and sleepless. It is the kind of thing that does not happen in the real world. While our children are rushing out into the streets and fields with soccer balls and dreams, I thought of that other sporting metaphor, of the rank outsider who, written off by everyone else, none the less dares to dream. The Mighty Ducks, Eddie \u201CThe Eagle\u201D Edwards, the Jamaican bobsled team, and now the All Whites all speak of the triumph of hope and belief over size and history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EEven here, at the far ends of the Earth, it is possible to stand up for what may be, rather than be defeated by what always has been. We have a history of that in New Zealand, whether it is votes for women, our belief in the equality of all, our passionate commitment to saving our natural environment, our opposition to apartheid, or our implacable commitment to keeping our country nuclear-free, we have been prepared to stand up for what we believe as a small nation, even when faced with apparently overwhelming odds or opposition from the world\u2019s superpowers. The All Whites\u2019 story is the feel-good hit of the year. In the words of the Guardian: \u201Ctoday is all about New Zealand, who have infused this World Cup with the sort of innocent, everyman charm that was seemingly lost to top-level football.\u201D Congratulations to the All Whites on playing their finest hour of football yet. Can we beat Paraguay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fe01ba2375b454b898df9d907ea360e\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we can!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220832299938094a10be40e6de641f94bf\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we can. My head says no, but my heart says of course we can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e30d576f65f84a5fab5c0defab3233de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e30d576f65f84a5fab5c0defab3233de\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E What a game! What a match! Every now and then Kiwis show the world that we can, as a people, punch way above our weight. What the All Whites have done for us is to remind us that we can set big goals, we can take on the world, and we can beat them. What the All Whites did in beating the current FIFA World Cup holders was absolutely a miracle. I say \u201Cbeating\u201D them because I want to record in Parliament that, as far as the ACT Party goes, it was 1-0 to the All Whites, and we have every reason to believe that we will beat Paraguay too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u00228d29601eb0724ce69d436aec9929cd86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d29601eb0724ce69d436aec9929cd86\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa te Whare nei. He h\u014Dnore m\u0101ku ki te t\u016B ki te mihi atu ki t\u014D t\u0101tou T\u012Bma M\u0101 i t\u0113nei rangi. He whakatauak\u012B t\u0101 te iwi M\u0101ori m\u014D t\u0113nei momo t\u0101karo: \u201CK\u0101tahi te t\u0101karo \u0101taahua!\u201D. I t\u0113nei wiki i kite m\u0101tou i t\u0113nei, te \u0101taahua o te mahi o t\u014D t\u0101tou t\u012Bma, ar\u0101, ko te All Whites. N\u0101 reira, tino t\u016B whakah\u012Bh\u012B t\u0101tou, ka t\u016B t\u0101tou i te \u0101hua r\u0101ngatira i te mahi kua mahia e r\u0101tou i roto i t\u0113nei momo t\u0101karo, mai i te w\u0101 o te k\u0113mu i a Bahrain i t\u0113r\u0101 N\u014Dema. I wikit\u014Dria r\u0101tou kia haere katoa te t\u012Bma ki Awherika ki te Tonga m\u014D t\u0113nei kapu koura. N\u0101 reira, he mihi t\u0113nei ki a r\u0101tou, \u0101, me te k\u012B he mihi nui ki t\u0113r\u0101 tamaiti o Ng\u0101ti Porou, a Rory Fallon i t\u0113r\u0101 mahi i te k\u0113mu, kia taea e te t\u012Bma ki te haere ki Awherika. N\u0101, ka t\u016B mai t\u0113tahi M\u0101ori i Awherika ki te Tonga, ar\u0101, a Winston W\u012Bremu Reid n\u0101na te koura i a Slovakia. N\u0101 reira, he h\u014Dnore t\u0113nei kia mihi atu ki te t\u012Bma katoa, ng\u0101 mea i tae katoa ki reira kia kawe ai te mana o Aotearoa i reira, kia pukumahi r\u0101tou ki te k\u0113mu i reira. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EI t\u0113r\u0101 marama, mai i t\u014Dna k\u0101inga i Denmark, ka puta te k\u014Drero mai a Winston Reid m\u014D t\u014Dna hiahia kia hoki mai ki Aotearoa, kia uru atu ki roto i te T\u012Bma M\u0101, t\u014D t\u0101tou t\u012Bma o Aotearoa nei. Ko t\u014Dna take, kia haere ki Awherika ki te Tonga m\u014D Aotearoa tuatahi, tuarua, kia t\u016B ia hai tauira m\u014D ng\u0101 tamariki M\u0101ori, kia uru atu r\u0101tou ki roto i te k\u0113mu whutupaora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EN\u0101 reira ka tautoko au i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero i t\u0113nei rangi ki t\u014D t\u0101tou t\u012Bma All Whites i roto i \u0101 ratou mahi. N\u0101 reira, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Speaker, and to us all in this House. It is an honour for me to rise and acknowledge our All Whites team today. M\u0101oridom has a saying for this kind of play: \u201CWhat a beauty of a match!\u201D. We witnessed the brilliance of our team, the All Whites, this week. We stand proud at the way they went about this challenge, from the time they played Bahrain last November. They won, and that enabled the whole team to go to South Africa for this gold cup. So this is an acknowledgment to them and to Rory Fallon, the Ng\u0101ti Porou lad whose efforts in that match made it possible for the team to go. Then up steps a M\u0101ori, Winston W\u012Bremu Reid, in South Africa with his goal against Slovakia. So it is a privilege to congratulate the whole team, all of the ones who went there to carry New Zealand\u2019s might. They worked hard there in the match. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EFrom his home in Denmark last month emerged a statement that Winston Reid wanted to return to New Zealand to qualify for the All Whites, our team here in New Zealand. His purpose, in the first instance, was to go to South Africa as a representative of New Zealand, and, secondly, to be a role model for M\u0101ori children to become involved in the game of soccer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EI endorse the tributes today to our All Whites team and their efforts. Greetings to us all.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022afa3d5ac983547d7980b6fee57dfce67\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afa3d5ac983547d7980b6fee57dfce67\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Leader\u2014United Future):\u003C/span\u003E This last midwinter week in New Zealand must be the most extraordinary in our sporting history. It began with us daring to hope for a good result against Slovakia, and we were blown away when the All Whites, unheralded and unfancied, came away with a draw in that match. Then our attention turned to the match with Italy. Could that feat possibly be repeated? It was repeated, with honour and credit all around. Now we look to the third leg of the treble: Paraguay on Friday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThis country is absorbed and transfixed at the moment by the success of the All Whites. It is great to see. It is a huge uplift in our national spirit. But those of us who have watched the All Whites over the last year\u2014from the occasion at Westpac Stadium when the team qualified against Bahrain, and its contributing team the Wellington Phoenix playing here throughout last season\u2014knew a couple of things. The first was that something big was building, and the second was that success is not achieved without hard effort, hard work, and a massive level of support from those people who back the team. That is what we have seen with the Wellington Phoenix, we have seen with the All Whites in their qualifying matches, and now\u2014the vuvuzelas notwithstanding\u2014we are seeing in South Africa. It is a huge tribute to the team that it has inspired this level of support. It is a massive lift of confidence for our country; it is a wonderful carnival atmosphere. Let us hope that we can ride it all the way through the Paraguay match on Friday and on into the next round. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EWhen New Zealanders get to that point when our backs are against the wall, when we are obsessed with being derided as part-time amateurs, they are our greatest moments of success, and I believe that this team has only started down that road. Good luck to the team on Friday and for what lies beyond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1ad9799caa84e8092718a97eb0ad151\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1ad9799caa84e8092718a97eb0ad151\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00228517629e51114f49904ecfbd783c4a0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228517629e51114f49904ecfbd783c4a0b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is a tradition that the party leaders normally speak in these debates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002278ae1ab9372a4ae5aeb96c96f38fb5ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278ae1ab9372a4ae5aeb96c96f38fb5ab\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E There is also a tradition that if people want\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002278de433ecebc43d5bb5ae648f4298642\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278de433ecebc43d5bb5ae648f4298642\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House has heard the debate in good humour and I do not think we should depart from the normal practice for something that is\u2014[Interruption] The member should resume his seat for the moment. To me, it is unfortunate to end it like this. If I call the honourable member, then any other member of the House can seek a call, which I do not think is in the spirit of the debate at all. I ask the member to just reflect on that over the next moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002297ae9e11c15d4619a4e80b1ab840695d\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002220e86dd6c73d4291bf34f9703f9cd0e2\u0022\u003EVisit of Chinese Vice-President\u2014Protest\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u002278f2da0207d145b5a52f63aeaf01a1b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278f2da0207d145b5a52f63aeaf01a1b2\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to make a personal explanation regarding the incident in front of Parliament involving the Chinese Vice-President on Friday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5e25f08a333487eb3d89ad97c5d287c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1285838355b482fb2562c87ecc3407f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1285838355b482fb2562c87ecc3407f\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is a tradition in this House to allow free speech and for members to make points of order. I once again\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fac058aa1694f55880af0dc8c482718\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat immediately. The member has every right to seek leave to make a personal explanation. It is up to the House to decide whether that leave is granted. The House on this occasion chose not to grant it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002291cd2b160e1a45e4bd07a42830e4dc38\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e0568f972be54a4abaf5ddaf0763927f\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d00aacb8483348b1b732bac46e3f0310\u0022\u003EHuman Rights\u2014Issues Raised with Chinese Delegation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u00229615435745ab46e4895f3bacc5170714\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229615435745ab46e4895f3bacc5170714\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: When he raised human rights with the Chinese delegation last week did he raise the right to freedom of opinion and expression; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022503929d2e5ed4dcd97030ff2ccb04c47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022503929d2e5ed4dcd97030ff2ccb04c47\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Acting Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E No, because the main focus of the discussions was on trade and economic relations between New Zealand and the People\u2019s Republic of China.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cecdf8924c24bc3a553dba1569e9b7d\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement on Morning Report that MPs should be allowed to protest only silently, and is silent protest the kind of freedom of expression that he would have liked to discuss with the Chinese delegation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222853c71085db485e9f82dac5057da889\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the Prime Minister stands by his comments. Of course MPs have the right to protest. Equally, visitors to the Parliament of New Zealand have a right to conduct themselves in and out of the building with dignity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e59a2c6efa4488aa32009ca5183964d\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that in order to have freedom of speech, one has to be allowed to speak?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209db257bd55b4411a33ebd8e59c3c693\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and the member has the right at any stage to speak his point of view. I think the incident that we are referring to here amounted to slightly more than the member\u2019s just speaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5796cad10a041d58a73ebd4f97f4efd\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: In reference to his first answer, if the Prime Minister did not raise freedom of expression in his discussions with the Chinese Vice-President, then what human rights issues specifically were raised with the Chinese Vice-President?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cba6354dbf84260a36d2282d6247f90\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot answer that question, because I was not at the meeting. But I can confirm that human rights are raised regularly with the Chinese Government, at both ministerial and official level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022654c5a7606324e2c9dac54a4218c155f\u0022\u003EKeith Locke\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that the Chinese Government has imprisoned Tibetans for raising their own national flag, and will he uphold the right of New Zealanders to fly that same flag, even when the sight of it upsets a visiting Chinese dignitary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208cd02156b014e249e868c7fca8e759f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Anyone in New Zealand is free to fly that flag, and, from what I saw of the recent visit, it was flown on many occasions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d8668a064364751b8e410ceb09fe923\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister seen Television New Zealand\u2019s extended footage on its web page, which, at 18 seconds in, shows the Green co-leader Russel Norman clearly elbowing a Chinese official, and the Green co-leader assaulting the official before the scuffle over the flag took place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acac87fd7d964921811506da8cbe6e07\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen the footage, and it does show the co-leader of the Green Party shuffling a bit with the Chinese security. I think he was trying to prevent them getting in front of him. I think it also showed something else that has not really been referred to, and that is that when, it looks like, a Chinese official went to take the flag from Russel Norman, the New Zealand Diplomatic Protection Squad protected the New Zealand member of Parliament from those security. I have to say, though, that as a whole it is a picture of an event that we would not like to see occur to our Prime Minister in a foreign country, and I do not think we should see it occur to any visitor to New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e9b4642b0ef47b782fc836391ad8490\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Can he explain why his Government is protesting vigorously against the Fijian Government because it is crushing democracy and human rights there, but is rolling out the red carpet to the Chinese Government, which is doing the same and even worse in China and Tibet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022821f5044f94c41f5b24ec80e9add2409\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The New Zealand Government deals with each of those countries on their own merits, relative to the history that we have with them. The New Zealand Government has clear views on how human rights should be exercised in Fiji, and equally clear views on how they should be exercised in China.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217050c6498a148dfaeba40a6fe8617b4\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Has the New Zealand Government received an apology from the Chinese Communist Party Government for using physical force against a member of the New Zealand Parliament in the parliamentary grounds?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232ee84d8e1c74036841cfdd9d555e1dc\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I suggest the member go and look at the footage on the Television One website. They may be expecting an apology from the New Zealand member of Parliament for the use of force on one of their security officials in the grounds of the New Zealand Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002279499a3e44d74cd1827bdfccad11297e\u0022\u003EPacific Economic Development Agency\u2014Treasury Advice on Proposal\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00220c6106e6414b46f7b9d4155f287f1a0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c6106e6414b46f7b9d4155f287f1a0f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What concerns, if any, has Treasury expressed about the Budget proposal to give the Pacific Economic Development Agency $4.8 million as announced by the Hon Georgina te Heuheu on 20 May 2010?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022659a37dba4d94907889e289571493873\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022659a37dba4d94907889e289571493873\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E None that I am aware of. No money has been handed over. Treasury is engaged in a process that is focused on seeking value for money. It is assisting the Ministry of Pacific Island Affairs to negotiate a suitable purchase agreement for providing job assistance and training opportunities for young Pacific people. They will ensure that there are clear deliverables, sound performance measures, sound accountability arrangements, and no duplication of existing funding or programmes\u2014a process followed with regard to hundreds of millions of dollars worth of grants within the Government. One way or another, the Government is determined to use this small amount of new funding to assist the group that has probably been hardest hit by the recession, which is young Pacific Island youth with no skills and no jobs. We believe it is important that the Government takes action in order to make a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f15fac6a03f41b08ad1917ba871c4ba\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: In making the decision to allocate that money to the Pacific Economic Development Agency in the Budget, did he take account of the report in March from the Ministry of Pacific Island Affairs that warned explicitly that this posed significant risks to the Government, that the agency was \u201Cuntested and unproven\u201D, that it had \u201Cnot delivered on projects of any note\u201D, and that it \u201Cdoes not have a good record of working \u2026 with other agencies\u201D; if so, why did he go ahead with the proposal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ec7ee4c77874a2f90591b895e3561fb\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That kind of advice is not unusual\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa6a585e8a584ff29b6ba439c93b4bec\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b73f486cad4f4992af2f1ddd66850edf\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is not unusual when officials are appraising new Budget proposals. As I have said, there is a negotiation going on now regarding the contracting arrangements. I might say that the proposals have a very clear track record; that is, they came from a conference that I believe the previous Labour Government convened for the economic and social transformation of Pacific Islanders, which produced a detailed document in September 2008. The propositions come from that document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226132b4a83d15431b99541b9ab888862f\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Who decided that the Pacific Economic Development Agency was not required to report under the standard reporting requirements set out under section 32A of the Public Finance Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ad5f917188f4edda41c03198bb78b1a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That is a ridiculous question, because no money has been handed out. The agency concerned is in discussions with Treasury and the Ministry of Pacific Island Affairs. I would have thought that the Labour Party would be pleased that the Government is paying attention to the plight of young Pacific people and that it is determined to take action to improve their prospects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211a0384105e24f3dabc9f20a7a5bc69c\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he tell the New Zealand Herald that Mrs te Heuheu \u201Cwent too far\u201D in stating that the money was for the Pacific Economic Development Agency and that the money referred to was a general allocation for Pacific development, when the Budget document states specifically and explicitly that this money is allocated to the Pacific Economic Development Agency?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221909df7f1ae843fb810a95a10bc5bc47\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, I did not speak to the New Zealand Herald. I advise the members of two things: one is that the money is described in a number of different ways in the Budget documentation; the second is that no money goes out until a satisfactory contract is negotiated. I would have thought that the Labour Party would be pleased that the Government is taking action to help those who are probably New Zealand\u2019s most disadvantaged group: young, unskilled Pacific Islanders with no jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5f6706c83124c7dbe1ae643e72064c0\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a summary of service providers for non-departmental outputs that states explicitly that the Pacific Economic Development Agency is handed its money. That is from the Budget documents, on page 186 of the Information Supporting the Estimates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b4a0582315a487cbe36c1d835d46994\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think we should be seeking leave to table documents from the Budget, because the Budget is freely available to every member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022451950cfe77549abb7e49e2fc3972d76\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I understand that in normal circumstances a member would not seek leave to table something that is in the Budget, but since the Minister is clearly unaware of that fact, I think it is pertinent to the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cc7f855fd0b4a1db531aa499dabb10b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is just not reasonable to waste the time of the House on putting the seeking of leave to table documents that have been made available to the House in just the last few weeks. It does not impede the member\u2019s ability to use the bit from the Budget; I am sure he will make sure that the media has plenty of access to the page he is interested in. It does not need to be tabled in this House; it is already available to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223159a1224444494a90e092b0aa805e94\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister not simply come clean and acknowledge that he, rather than Mrs te Heuheu, negotiated this deal, and that it was done without the normal standards of transparency, accountability, and due diligence that should have been followed before he included the commitment to a specific untested agency in the Budget? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0a5ebce66974fb88dae06ab15ca78b5\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Because that is simply not correct. The Government will not allow party politics and conspiracy theories to get in the way of using that money to help people whom the Labour Party has clearly given up caring about: Pacific Island youth who have no jobs and no skills. Labour spent all of last year saying the Government was not doing enough; now it says we are doing too much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247fa0702d4cb49d185419df0fba9555e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I allowed that exchange to carry on for a while, because members on both sides of the House had made comments that were not particularly helpful, but the noise level is just too high altogether. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258fde5d83dd6460cb3fd3d28e849ae16\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: In addition to the witch-hunt that has been launched to find out who leaked the report of the Ministry of Pacific Island Affairs that has not been released, did his office at any time contact the Pacific radio station 531pi with regard to journalist Efeso Collins, who was suspended from that station for challenging the deal that he entered into with the Pacific Economic Development Agency?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257d775940a224089b06935c6b2a85d58\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, because we have been so busy working out how to help young Pacific Islanders with no jobs and no skills. We have not lost 10 minutes on that kind of politicking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022365563c4594f495da28ce5642b0d9590\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Was J R Pereira, or anyone associated with the Pacific Economic Development Agency with whom the Minister discussed this deal, active in any way in the National Party election campaigns of 2005 and 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225d35ace65b043e682778cf2d36e3d15\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I have no idea, because I never met the man before some time in 2009. When this Government is dealing with the Pasifika community, we know that we are dealing with a community that overwhelmingly supports the Labour Party. So probably many of the people I have been speaking to were active in the Labour Party campaign in 2008. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f9cbc65e9a84a7b980cae5666b9aea2\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption] Have you finished, Gerry? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa2238ebfd044355952de645c3de1d9f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat. Members can see the disorder that occurs when members do not obey the rules. I apologise to the honourable member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220baa122310f84ccd8b1e3e40cd0e7214\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: That was a very specific question. It could have been given a yes or no answer. It asked whether J R Pereira or any individual associated with the deal was also associated with the National Party campaigns of those years. That question was not addressed or answered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022996a1863407c40de97c35d9b1af88cfd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I heard the Minister clearly say that he did not know, and that he had not met the person until\u2014I think he said in his answer\u2014September 2009. He said he did not know, and that is a perfectly fair answer. If the member wishes to challenge that in the future, that is fine, but that is the answer that the Minister gave to the House today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d8790c1cda3461a837304ac3c8371dd\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. He said that in relation to Mr J R Pereira. My question related to Mr Pereira or any other individual; the Minister did not answer that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022570681ca729241bba47b6c1075dfd01a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: He has to answer only one part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0f916954095437687eeee8448d258d8\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. With respect, the question is one part. It asked whether that gentleman or any other was associated with the National Party campaign, so that is one question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268bf4cab900c4f69b7bdefa99fd46dab\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I accept the fundamental point that the member is making: it is basically one question that he is asking. I ask the Minister whether he has any further information on that part of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c28b1d5d296d4be59b94afe0d66a996d\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think you need to be a little careful here, because you will be requiring a Minister to answer a question about an area for which he has no ministerial responsibility. He has given a perfectly plausible answer. It is obvious what the situation is here. The Minister has no ministerial responsibility for the National Party campaign, any more than Phil Goff has for the Labour Party campaign, which last time was an abject disaster. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022111f9512a8744cdd848d0a794102a5e0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The point the member has raised is very interesting. I will hear the Hon Trevor Mallard before I rule on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5c41ee337d14ecc9522e6caac144d43\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: If you go back to the original question, it was very carefully phrased, and that was whether the Minister had met with, as part of those discussions, Mr Pereira or others\u2014that is, the discussions around funding. He then asked whether they were people the Minister had met with previously. It is a question of when he first met with the individuals: was it part of the Pacific Economic Development Agency funding, or was it when they were campaigning for the National Party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7819754ac91491f8b74ae0c3572f9b6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The interesting point, though, that has been raised by the Hon Gerry Brownlee is whether the Minister has any responsibility for whether they were involved in anything to do with the National Party. I have to confess that is a very good point. The member is perfectly at liberty to question the Minister about discussions with them, about what decisions were made, and all that kind of thing. But the Minister is not remotely responsible for whether they were involved with the National Party. That is the dilemma I have. I will hear the honourable Leader of the Opposition, briefly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228650b29bd3de49e6b344ac74e1c7a7e6\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I just wonder whether you could give consideration to that ruling, because clearly when an Opposition is holding a Government to account, it needs to know what the motives might have been for acting in an unusual and different way. One of the motives might have been that there was some association: it might have been personal or it might have been political. I submit to you that that is a proper issue on which a Government should be able to be held to account, if we are to have transparency around these sorts of decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229c8a2d0752740a8a10592c8222dd73f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I hear the honourable member, and I do not want to be difficult in this. But if he thinks back to the previous Parliament, he will remember a number of questions revolved around the role of the Prime Minister as leader of the Labour Party versus her role as Prime Minister, and the House spent some time teasing those issues out. I am loath to go back and muddy the waters. I feel that the Minister, in his first answer to the question, did not refuse to answer it; he said he just did not know. I think that is a reflection of the fact that a Minister is not responsible for who is involved with the National Party. I understand the dilemma the member is getting at, but I do not want to go back to muddying the waters by allowing members to be able to question Ministers about their party affairs, because the House has teased out those issues before. I will give it more thought. At this moment I intend to rule in favour of the point of order of the Hon Gerry Brownlee that I should not be asking the Minister to answer any further on a matter to do with the National Party that is not this Minister\u2019s responsibility as a Minister. However, I will take advice on the matter, and if I have erred in this ruling I will come back to the House on the matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b77bdc6d03264fd7849876a4c485c308\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Can I rephrase the question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222020c48f087c408184c0d9bf03abbf50\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think I can quite allow that, on this occasion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b51982931ef040b2b8113b3abf7a2483\u0022\u003EEconomic Recovery\u2014Job Creation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4a97c0b689445a588f681d1c37e55bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4a97c0b689445a588f681d1c37e55bf\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he received showing new jobs are being created as New Zealand continues to build its economic recovery?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e558e42e8c8c4cababc1ac198ca4b5da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e558e42e8c8c4cababc1ac198ca4b5da\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Statistics New Zealand, in the latest household labour force survey, reported that total employment increased by 22,000 or 1 percent in the March quarter. This was driven by an increase in full-time employment, and is the largest quarterly increase in jobs since before the global financial crisis began. The Budget forecast also shows that the economy is expected to create 170,000 jobs over the next 4 years. It is pleasing that the economy is beginning to create new jobs, after a recession that began under the previous Labour Government in early 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4700278472b47cbb07666e1f584bcbc\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: How does the employment growth in the March quarter compare with recent trends in the employment market?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1fb0b1ae86e4fd6bc6d75ce9d3089db\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Previous job creation has mirrored the basic imbalance in the economy: too much growth in the domestic and Government sectors and not enough in the tradable or income-earning sector. Since 2004 over half of all new jobs created have been in public administration, health, and education. By contrast, combined employment in agriculture, horticulture, forestry, manufacturing, and transport declined by over 40,000\u2014that is, 40,000 fewer jobs on the earning side of the economy. There is a need to create more jobs in the tradable sector to earn the income to support the jobs we have in health and education, which grew four times faster than job growth in the rest of the economy and now make up about a third of all jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261a38cbf2c264e44a8982ff2eea5c6b4\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the forecast for employment forecasting only half as many new jobs as under the previous Labour Government; and of those, why is Treasury saying that only 5.7 percent of them have anything to do with any measure in his Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cef963cd75294c0f864069642b1b0910\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: One of the reasons that we are not creating as many jobs as we could is that we have to undo the damage done by the previous Government. Since 2004, as I said, half of all new jobs were created in the health and education sectors. This Government simply does not have the option of pumping up jobs with debt-funded growth in public spending. We are going to create jobs on the earnings side of the economy, which unfortunately shrank by about 40,000 jobs under that Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d82c807b043e4d79ae6b3b9558147c7a\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: How did Budget 2010 help position the New Zealand economy for faster growth and the creation of more jobs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236a12a6e804e4e36927ba2544bbc2f23\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, the Budget focused on growth right across the economy, not just in the Government sector, which had been the problem in the last 4 or 5 years of the previous Government. Treasury forecasts show steady economic growth of about 3 percent per year. That shows that there will be about 170,000 new jobs and that the incomes of the average household are expected to rise by about $7,000 over the next 4 years. We do not have the choice of creating a whole lot of new Government-funded jobs, because the Government has significant deficits. In this respect, we are in the same position as Governments all around the world. We have to grow our economy this time by growing the tradable and the income-earning side of the economy, not the spending side of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c2d4d5116444d5288d31543469002f5\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Following on from that statement, given that the Minister said that New Zealand\u2019s external liability was our largest single vulnerability, what measures are in the Budget to address that; or were commentators right when they said there was nothing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228268e42d65b1404595fd61e4fb722c25\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member will be familiar with the measures in the Budget. One of the reasons that we focused on a tax switch from direct to indirect taxes was to increase the cost of consumption and to make it less attractive for people to borrow for speculative property investment. On the other hand, we want to encourage savings, investment, and new jobs. We believe the Budget will achieve that, and in the long run it will have some impact on the net international investment position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce68bd09388a4ea78fdcdbcca608addc\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: What were some specific measures the Budget took to help New Zealand\u2019s most vulnerable to improve their skills and to secure jobs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228804dfa942f0470cac9699ef618315da\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Budget continued a couple of schemes that have been focused particularly on our young people. One is the Job Ops scheme, which provides an employment subsidy. The anecdotal evidence is that a significant proportion of those young people are going into jobs at the end of the scheme. There is also the Community Max scheme, which, again, appears in anecdotal evidence to have been relatively successful. We have also allowed for more places in tertiary education, focused on our younger people. But, most important, we are trying to build the confidence of businesses to invest and to employ, because unless a business decides to create another new job, there are no new jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ba66819db0134fe1b74a77cd1bff79ff\u0022\u003EWelfare\u2014Minister\u2019s Definition of Long-term Welfare Dependency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022597f1db6696d4aa490ec427a9287889a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022597f1db6696d4aa490ec427a9287889a\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: How does she define long-term welfare dependency in light of her statement that \u201CI don\u2019t think it\u2019s just the length of time, at all\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022079d8c7750b34c979fb4034725824189\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022079d8c7750b34c979fb4034725824189\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E That is right: I think the length of time is incredibly relevant, but I do not think it is the only consideration. I also went on to say that we could look at those beneficiaries who should have been work tested but who choose not to be, so they are not living up to their obligations. We would have to ask whether they have become dependent on the benefit instead of getting out there and looking for work as they should.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220684f503de39420095590735b55511c8\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: If she is not using the length of time on a benefit as her definition of welfare dependency, why does she continue to give the example of people on a benefit for 4 years or more as the people she is targeting, without mentioning that they might be disabled, terminally ill, or caring for small children, for example?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224f5ba23cae14d58b85de8484ffa4885\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: As I have quite clearly said, I do not think that it is just the length of time that people have been on a benefit. When we have over 3,000 people who have been on the unemployment benefit, for example, for longer than 2 years, I certainly would have questions about their dependency and whether we were able to move them into work as well. So the length of time is not the only consideration, but it is an important one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223df31af1ec054414b3f2b4cc441d13c3\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Can she clarify what she meant when she said \u201CThe definition of dependency will come down to the individual, and also as a group.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022179e831bc244483ea27b20f1737ac724\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I think that what the member may be referring to is that there are people who have been on the invalids benefit for quite some time, and they actually need to be. So we are considerate of those who have long-term illnesses and need State support, and we will be equally looking after them as they need to be looked after.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022412c1aa64ea0413eb4e4bfbe80ac7e5a\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Who is right: John Key, who said we have a serious and growing problem with long-term welfare dependency; or the Minister, who said last week: \u201CSome may be leaning towards dependency and some may be dependent, but then a huge proportion of them are not. They will move off and on for a short period. Some will be there for a lifetime, and with good reason.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225abc45458c8d425680f1e1d4b0d2a6cf\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I am quite clear that over 9 years we saw 51 percent of people getting sicker, and on the sickness benefit. It seems that under 9 years of Labour, the population got more sick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9e37ae049604f1c9f3fd65272ab9764\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think that that answer was quite a long way from the question, and perhaps the Minister might like to address it. She did not do so at the select committee, but I am giving her another chance today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270bd1e25daa54e1686be015e76babc7b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The difficulty I have is that, if I remember correctly, the honourable member asked the Minister who was right. Maybe the Minister could respond a little more to that specific question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225abb89ed6e9e4b1a99901d2ed817e5a5\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Both are right, as I have quite clearly stated, as it is not one little definition. I just say that while that side of the House is busy trying to define things, we are busy getting on with the solutions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209f1ceb1da004209b78e18f5166401e0\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement at the National Party mainland conference this year that \u201CWhat were initially National\u2019s slogans have manifested into real policy.\u201D; and is it not her problem that \u201Cwelfare dependency\u201D was used as a slogan during the election campaign and now she has to spend a million dollars on a working-group to figure out what the slogan meant?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba5a763e248143ccbf6eb94d72e7bdc8\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I just think that it is quite clear that, yes, I do stand by what I said at the mainland conference. It is quite clear that while members on the other side of the House are trying to decide whether there is a welfare dependency problem, we are getting on with addressing the actual, real issues that are facing us when we have a population that is becoming more dependent over a period of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261cb25f17136479f8fbeff27e9e01648\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this Government so concerned about the impacts of long-term dependency? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e6f7883c76f48e8875457ac2706b944\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Quite simply, because New Zealanders deserve better than a life on welfare. Dame Carol Black, in the UK, recently reported \u201CFor most people their work is a key factor in their self-worth, family esteem and identity.\u201D I am passionately supporting a welfare-sustainable system that supports those who can get into work as they can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022120d43d502894eb88e6e3ba64c0ad89a\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a quote from an obscure newspaper, the Oamaru Mail, in which the Minister says that these\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c6a375d284d4123a1799941d28882a7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, we are not going to be tabling that. I take it that the article is recent, so we will not be seeking leave to table it\u2014nice try, but no. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a925bc0e44814ebdaff308ccb91b0ffe\u0022\u003EClimate Change Policy\u2014Emissions Trading Scheme\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022 data-id=\u00227879a5c9b6a24d6ca90d447627e0c479\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227879a5c9b6a24d6ca90d447627e0c479\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Climate Change Issues: Does he agree that New Zealand should not be doing more than the rest of the world on climate change, and, if so, why did he tell the House on 24 September 2009 that \u201CThis emissions trading scheme will be the first of any country outside Europe, and on 1 July 2010 will be the most comprehensive by including transport, industrial, and energy emissions.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00220d64e8dc4d9e48b3aa94e26c3b9b83e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d64e8dc4d9e48b3aa94e26c3b9b83e5\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for Climate Change Issues):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, it is the Government\u2019s policy that New Zealand should do its fair share on climate change. Our emissions are 24 percent above 1990 levels, and have grown at one of the fastest rates of any developed country. Our moderated emissions trading scheme is balanced and takes a responsible approach, which will drive investment in renewable energy, energy efficiency, and the planting of trees, without an excessive cost burden on the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022614478195fbe450eb60a8c04980acedc\u0022\u003EJohn Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: What is it about New Zealand\u2019s treatment of transport, industrial, and energy emissions that makes New Zealand\u2019s emissions trading scheme more comprehensive than the European scheme on 1 July this year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b9a95597ba048e69e1de32a2c0e02b9\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member has claimed that the European emissions trading scheme does not have any effect on households. That is incorrect. Although the cost of the European emissions trading scheme is directly charged on the producers of electricity, that is, of course, passed on to consumers in exactly the same way as in New Zealand. A key difference between the European emissions trading scheme and the New Zealand scheme is that we have only a half obligation, and for that reason the cost of the New Zealand scheme for consumers and businesses will be less than half of that which is imposed on the 29 countries in the European scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e2e2d4120bf408abfac7b6bb9f64fd6\u0022\u003EJohn Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked the Minister a very specific question. He made the claim last year that our scheme was more comprehensive, and he has just set about explaining why it is less comprehensive. I ask the Minister to explain why our system is more comprehensive. Those were his own words last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266f2571607844763850a7e32062c43e5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have to admit that the question asked by John Boscawen was a very clear question. He asked exactly that\u2014why the New Zealand scheme is more comprehensive by including these things\u2014and I am not sure that the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c64529abeee4ba9bb74ea62ed678a58\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: There are a number of differences and there are a number of similarities with the European scheme. For instance, different European countries have a carbon tax specifically on transport. We have included all those sectors in the emissions trading scheme, albeit only at a half rate\u2014that is, the scheme on 1 July requires emitters to be responsible for only one-half of their emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200eb901ffdcc440d9622ac2f4f563fcf\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: What response has the Minister had to the Government\u2019s moderated emissions trading scheme, including at the 16 meetings he has spoken at around the country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbadce2f32a64cb99a69586bbf47e34a\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: There is some opposition at both ends of the political spectrum, with some New Zealanders concerned that we are moving too soon, and others concerned that our scheme is too slow and too soft. I think that most New Zealanders support the Government\u2019s approach of carefully balancing New Zealand environmental responsibilities and our economic interests. I note that only about 80 people joined today\u2019s anti - emissions trading scheme protest outside. That is actually about the same number who, 6 months ago, were protesting that our policy was too soft. That reinforces the fact that we have got the policy balance about right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0d011ee0a8640c98a2d71736a806253\u0022\u003EJohn Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter from Nova Energy, dated 31 May, advising about increases in the price of gas as a consequence of the emissions trading scheme, which starts on 1 July. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224186334dbe3044fb9026ae1d4e5e9031\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228c069757bd00431aa53fe5936757d20f\u0022\u003EState-owned Assets\u2014Government Policy on Sales\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u002251f8bd09e878443d9e5f7855d3183f93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251f8bd09e878443d9e5f7855d3183f93\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement to the Finance and Expenditure Committee that \u201Cit is going to be pretty difficult to maintain\u201D the value of New Zealand Post and TVNZ, and if so, will he rule out ever selling these State-owned assets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc5a3bfa534f432693b18dc218acc350\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc5a3bfa534f432693b18dc218acc350\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I stand by my statement. Both those Government-owned businesses face particular challenges from technology, which is fast moving and is putting considerable pressure on the revenues of both organisations. In relation to the second part of the question, I simply repeat the statements made by the Prime Minister, who has ruled out the sale of Kiwibank and its parent company, New Zealand Post. In respect of other assets, the Government\u2019s position is quite clear: there will be no asset sales during this term of office, and if that position changes, then the Government will take it to the electorate for 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac7dd95eb79c4a9b8abb16a3ed662646\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Why, when John Key had ruled out selling Kiwibank or its parent company just days before, did the Minister volunteer to the Finance and Expenditure Committee the prospect of selling its parent? Was that accident or design?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201a7292f0c9f4a4b92d0811da0dfb842\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is not actually what happened. I think it would be negligent of the Government if it was not able to talk about the real challenges of owning assets that are challenged by technology and could potentially lose value. I think it is important for taxpayers to understand that the Government owns $200 billion worth of assets on their behalf. At any given time some of them are going up in value, some of them may be obsolete, and some of them are going down in value because of events that are beyond the Government\u2019s control. I think it is important that the Government is free to be transparent about what is happening to assets that were paid for by New Zealanders\u2019 hard-earned taxes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f58a30768c134002b8d1c2d1cffceff9\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: So which of the Minister\u2019s positions is correct: his position in 2008 that Kiwibank will \u201Ceventually\u201D be sold, his position the day after the Budget that he is considering putting Kiwibank up for sale, his refusal to rule out selling Kiwibank or New Zealand Post, John Key\u2019s promise that they will never ever sell Kiwibank, or his position today that it will now be up for sale in a second term?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e70f095968347efb8db7fb9542cf105\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member is talking nonsense. If he listened to the answer to the first question, he would know clearly what the Government\u2019s position is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225f1efa8f20149ee97e46df3592a2d10\u0022\u003EAmy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: What assets does the Government own, and what are its objectives in respect of them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9d84417513846359e3763df6c2af67f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government owns a very large asset portfolio worth, as at June last year, $219 billion. As the Budget stated, we expect that over the next 4 years the value of Government assets will grow by around $35 billion. Given the size of these assets and the fact that they have been grown off the back of New Zealanders\u2019 taxes and people paying their power bills, we owe them a very high standard of stewardship. The Government\u2019s main aim is to ensure that all public assets are well operated and deliver high-quality services to the public. I might say that that was not the case under the previous Government, whose stewardship could be described as, at best, negligent, and, at worst, damaging.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bc6c7d3d80a43e2a3ff0269faae269b\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the TV3 poll that showed that 85 percent of Kiwis oppose the sale of Kiwibank, that 80 percent of Kiwis oppose the sale of any State assets, and that 53 percent of Kiwis say that John Key cannot be trusted; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022917aadae166641499919810d3c28d870\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I find myself agreeing with some parts of the TV3 poll and disagreeing with other parts. The part that I agree with is that Phil Goff\u2019s leadership ratings are going down. It has also become quite apparent from the way that Chris Carter has conducted himself that Helen Clark is much more influential\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eeb8fc993e2341ffa4de5f9b232899c3\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4e1807e3ae74ccf820b114c47a4b0f1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Both sides have offended equally, I would say, and therefore we will just take a deep breath and cool down. A point of order was called by the Hon David Cunliffe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad43f7aa22464689b2ea63749c6831c4\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: As you will be aware, the primary question was specific to the question of the sale of Kiwibank, and so were the poll results that I referred to around the privatisation of assets. I argue that it is outside the ambit of both the primary question and the Standing Orders for the Minister to play it in the way he did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285880b0bf9cb43a78d06c0e688cfbe8c\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: The question that the member asked was whether the Minister had seen the TV3 poll. He then said it showed something, and asked whether the Minister agreed with it. It is perfectly reasonable for the Minister to put the poll in context, which I think he did very well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256662e15ae2340fe8dd891d64aa910a4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have to be honest with the member. As I listened to his question, I thought: \u201CHere\u2019s a problem.\u201D The member asked whether the Minister agreed with these aspects of a poll. I understand the member\u2019s point of order: he is pointing out that he asked about certain aspects of the poll in respect of these issues. But to expect me to then confine the Minister to any kind of answer, when the question started by asking whether he agreed with a poll that showed something\u2014I really cannot assist. Any other approach to the poll, I might have had some opportunity to assist, but when he started the question by asking whether the Minister agreed with the poll\u2014which, I believe, is how the member started the question\u2014I really cannot assist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6715f747d764f659413480e80af5f0d\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Just a small point. You have got into the habit of saying things like: \u201CBoth sides have offended equally.\u201D, and that is not quite accurate. You will find that the members of the M\u0101ori Party, the ACT Party, United Future, and the Green Party are sitting here like paragons of virtue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202faf36dc50b40dfaeb3361b9f61d5b9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to those parties. On this particular occasion, at least, I was referring to both the National Party and the Labour Party in the House. I apologise to other members who might have felt offended by my comment. The member made a perfectly fair point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270199bdbc622485181806904cf22f26a\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he not tell Gerry Brownlee that both he and the Prime Minister had discussed John Palmer\u2019s comments that Solid Energy should be partially privatised before they were made public? Was it to try to cover up that the Government is now considering privatising Solid Energy, given that John Key agrees that Solid Energy needs more capital?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266a589a96ae746beaccf96514c7fff9f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member, I am sure, understands that if an entity like Solid Energy has plans to expand, it will need access to capital. Those are matters that we would expect a growing organisation like Solid Energy, Kiwibank, or any others to discuss with the Government. We take our responsibility as a shareholder seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9a6630e19d140b09689fc16c42b8827\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was very specific about why the Minister had left Gerry Brownlee out of the loop, and he did not address that part of the question, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf5fc972039445dfb7e53f861e9c0d1d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258bcec27dbbe4d57b7e16b6073d6cf8d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear the honourable Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6bb6e77985e46e7b60d7e88a10ae757\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member is wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a956857881df431aaea97bd2c93413a2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House has got a bit untidy and it is my fault. I accept responsibility for that, but at least we got an answer to the member\u2019s question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002210e683068b534f49b3da37300fcc22ab\u0022\u003EEnergy Efficiency\u2014Business Sector\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u00227bcd125623dc427ab9cf34eec044f186\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bcd125623dc427ab9cf34eec044f186\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: What steps is the Government taking to encourage businesses to be more energy-efficient?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002292ce8a8581b34388b4e35612abc0d775\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292ce8a8581b34388b4e35612abc0d775\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E Research by the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority has identified about $2 billion per annum of achievable energy savings in the business sector. The authority provides energy audits to help businesses identify those opportunities. With over 600 audits completed so far, we can see that for every dollar invested in an energy audit about $7.50 in savings opportunities is identified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221420b5a2c6bd4dee8e1e0337746481f4\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: What are the economic benefits of the business energy audit scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266989f4f83314b018e6d8fc0594d9fd5\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: In the last 5 years the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority has invested $3.9 million in the scheme, and accumulated annual energy savings of around 500 gigawatt hours, which equates to around $65 million in bottom-line cost to business. This equates to a cost of about 1c per kilowatt hour of electricity saved, which compares very favourably with the cost of new electricity generation of over 8c per kilowatt hour. What is more, savings made in business become part of the baseline for the years ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e6fe6890b35f429b9d8cf649705d0a16\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014Minister\u2019s Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f95eb95c95ff47ba93af13dee80c0ce6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f95eb95c95ff47ba93af13dee80c0ce6\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by all his recent statements on health services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u00227c4df57ce9dd491d859bf41cced2193f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c4df57ce9dd491d859bf41cced2193f\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, including the statement that the Government is investing in health the highest percentage of GDP ever, at the same time as health boards are increasing their front-line services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecf5e102eebf459bad720fe7f30a47b3\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: When he said on Sunday, 20 June of this year that National would not be closing the wage gap with Australia for doctors as a means of stopping our doctors leaving our shores in droves, had he forgotten that closing the wage gap with Australia was exactly what he promised to do in his press statement of 30 September 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af6164196c9842c2ac5ffb4d753ad91d\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: The Government will not be able to close the wage gap with Australia overnight. But this Government is taking a lot of steps that will do that, and one of those steps is our substantial programme of tax cuts announced last month. An average hospital doctor on $165,000 a year will be better off by $7,000 before GST.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f5abf92fd814cb8af7e61e06f404f9a\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: When he promised that front-line health services would be increased under National, was he excluding the elective surgery and supportive services that are not happening this week at Wellington Hospital, which has closed down to save money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273dcd362f66345c3adf8c2dfed2109f3\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: As the member would know, it is up to the Capital and Coast District Health Board how it manages its staff leave. I can tell the member that elective surgery is being performed at Wellington Hospital today, as it was yesterday, and all acute surgery is operating as per usual. Capital and Coast District Health Board delivered 6,600 elective operations last year\u2014more than ever before. I also tell the member that its emergency department is seeing about the same number of people it saw last week. We have inherited from Labour a deficit of $60 million at Capital and Coast District Health Board, and we are slowly trying to manage that legacy of failure from the party opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279f673e649924da2bfad4e8b114556c4\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: What other comments has the Minister of Health made about health services that he stands by?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecc58be67f404428b18e6969e6d3337e\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I stand by our comment that we are not prepared to be a Government that over 9 years doubles the amount of money in the health service and provides fewer elective surgeries for the people of New Zealand on a population basis. Under this party in Government, 13,000 extra people got elective surgery last year, which means more hip replacements, more cataracts fixed, and more people who no longer have back pain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5f197585f864e179ff93c8daeb2fd21\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: When he was described as having a counteroffer for every home support cut that was described to him\u2014cuts also described as cruel, unfair, and frightening\u2014was he saying that the thousands of New Zealanders who have had their home support cut in the last 12 months were ripping off the system; if not, why did he use two examples of fraud to justify those cuts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f6913e5041e4f758aef47937101e4da\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: It is quite unfortunate that that member opposite continues to try to ignore the facts that have been made available to her, particularly in Wellington, where, she knows, in the last 9 months about 650 people have come off home support, 650 have come on home support, and 82 have had their home support increased. We know that every year about 15,000 people come on to home support and 15,000 people go off, and this Government is putting more money into important front-line services, including home support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b74072e9e39c4c25b4b8275466f74176\u0022\u003EFilm Heritage\u2014Preservation Initiatives\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce56faa80cdd4242bafee38f45bd1ca2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce56faa80cdd4242bafee38f45bd1ca2\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage: What is the Government doing to preserve New Zealand\u2019s film heritage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u00222d19448591a446fc93a2bac60735a78f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d19448591a446fc93a2bac60735a78f\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage):\u003C/span\u003E In Budget 2010 the Government announced a one-off injection of $2 million extra funding for the Film Archive for crucial film preservation work. Delays in doing this work over the years have placed many historic films documenting New Zealand\u2019s history and culture at serious risk of being lost for ever. This Government recognises the importance of film to New Zealand\u2019s cultural heritage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022693e2baaae85412e952f516d446b32b3\u0022\u003ENicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: What other work is the Film Archive doing to preserve rare motion pictures?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e29a1f3fd8284a5c84f863a79900772a\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Film Archive has entered into a partnership with the United States National Film Preservation Foundation to repatriate and preserve 75 historic American motion pictures. These rare nitrate films, including John Ford\u2019s full-length feature Upstream, will be accessible to both American and New Zealand audiences. The partnership and the importance of these films were reflected in recent widespread international media coverage, from the New York Times to the Guardian\u2014which should please the Labour Party\u2014and that shows why this Government\u2019s investment in preserving our film history is so important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222eeda34d95014fd59e03b4c9af958960\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: On what date can we expect the Minister to release the Government review of the New Zealand Film Commission?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a50a06303fd48a6ad1d12a1742392f1\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I understand from Sir Peter Jackson that he is heading off overseas on 23 June, and it will be available on or before that date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ffe90449e1a848cbba25dd4578f2bfdd\u0022\u003EForeshore and Seabed Act Review\u2014Coastline in Customary Title\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5d429cbca6f4a308215ea4eb932096f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5d429cbca6f4a308215ea4eb932096f\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Leader\u2014Progressive)\u003C/span\u003E to the Attorney-General: Does he stand by his statement that 2,000 kilometres of coastline could be put into customary title?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u002204d93c4f76fd4ee09e609ebb16a875ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204d93c4f76fd4ee09e609ebb16a875ec\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E If the member reads the transcript from the relevant interview, he would see that the figure came from the interviewer, not me. I agreed that the figure would be an in-the-round guesstimate of that. It could be less than that figure, of course. It will depend on iwi entering into negotiations or making an application to the court, and it will depend on the facts as presented at any negotiation or in court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274c8f2338419404cb946c980ece3bca3\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: As the Minister\u2019s long answer seemed to be a long way of saying yes, is handing over the title of up to 2,000 kilometres of land that belongs to all New Zealanders consistent with this statement made by Gerry Brownlee on the Agenda programme on 10 March 2007: \u201CNational has made its position on this clear right from the start. We believe our beaches and our lakes should belong to all New Zealanders.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022463f06e39dbf4bf4b322df87b4cc9b2c\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: The position is absolutely consistent with what Mr Brownlee said. What we are talking about is customary title. The member\u2019s question seems to assume that it is some kind of fee simple title, and that is wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a530625afadd4b7f997a657a49fc45b9\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: How, then, is the explanation of the Minister to the primary question consistent with this statement made by Gerry Brownlee on Morning Report on 17 July 2007: \u201CLabour has traded away the birthright of all New Zealanders and the unrestricted ownership through the Crown of all foreshore and seabed, and turned it over to racially based control.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256659b31c8354bd6994a41277a3da8a8\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Public access is guaranteed and a new form of customary title will be developed, and that is the position under the current regime. I am not interested\u2014as that member is an expert in\u2014in delving into the ancient past. I am dealing with the present and the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022245cb83638584a6390afd3927af7f46a\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister is not interested in the two quotes from Gerry Brownlee that I have already given, then how can any of his attempted explanations about handing over the title of up to 2,000 kilometres of land that belongs to all New Zealanders be consistent with this statement of Gerry Brownlee made on Eye to Eye with Willie Jackson on 7 July 2007: \u201CNational says the beaches should belong to all New Zealanders, and we oppose race-based legislation.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5b3d1d9ff6b47eeb5f35c299fc171b7\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member in his dotage here is becoming more and more garrulous\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022183e8fa995da47ffa3e295f9d0dfc813\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There will be no\u2014[Interruption] I am on my feet. I say to the Minister that that answer is totally unacceptable. The member cannot abuse another member just because he asked a question. If I recollect it, the member asked the Minister how he reconciled the Government\u2019s position with a statement made earlier by a senior colleague. That might have a political overtone, but it does not deserve abuse of the questioner. The House is interested in hearing the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266be80d136cd4bab961a2a9950e53422\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Where we get to today is as a result of an agreement made after the 2008 election with the M\u0101ori Party. A review was conducted of the Foreshore and Seabed Act, and what we are trying to do is to come up with a proposal that takes this country forward. I would hope that the honourable member would be interested in joining with us on this, rather than in being so destructive and negative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1efbbb59e8448c0959fd07c0a3511af\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: Can he guarantee that the public will have not just access to the foreshore and seabed under customary title but free public access, and that no iwi or hap\u016B will be permitted to charge members of the public who are enjoying traditional customary leisure activities on the foreshore and seabed under this customary code?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b69740ffd59b471caf2e506a6b886b3d\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: If anyone is enjoying a customary leisure activity on the foreshore and seabed, I have already made it abundantly clear that public access is guaranteed, and I cannot for the life of me conceive of any reason why there would be charging for the average New Zealander enjoying public access along the lines of what the member said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a668c5697e942228fdc93a29d263979\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I listened to that answer very carefully. The question began with \u201CCan he guarantee\u201D. His answer, at the tail, was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022818de706ad444578b08897016b8b8498\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We have heard sufficient. When members ask Ministers whether they can guarantee issues like that, it is extraordinarily difficult. The member cannot expect a yes or no answer with regard to a guarantee like that. I think that the Minister gave a reasonable answer to the member\u2019s question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7bae516a56b41c2a4ef9316c0b258a4\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Kei te whakaae atu ia ki te k\u014Drero a te r\u014Dia M\u0101ori a Moana Jackson n\u0101 te teitei rawa atu o te taumata m\u014D te customary title, t\u0113 taea te whakatutuki; ki te k\u014Dre, he aha \u0101na kupu atawhai ki ng\u0101 wh\u0101nau, ki ng\u0101 hap\u016B, ki ng\u0101 iwi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229aef9c4bf1784a4abd6ed314ed249a68\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: The interpretation was not very helpful, I regret to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f603cd30bdf146bdac2960a8e60f7516\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps the Minister did not hear especially the early part of the question. Would the member mind assisting to make sure the Minister does understand the question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8ab382d9fc241a4a7fe4f751ac74379\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with M\u0101ori lawyer Moana Jackson that the standard that has been set for proving customary title is so high that it is practically impossible to meet; if not, what assurance can he give wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi otherwise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2b4b29af3b1477c8ecb110c1a3860d7\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the honourable member. There will doubtless be some iwi who can meet the test for customary title. Any application to the courts or any negotiations will be able to be dealt with on the facts, unlike what happened under the 2004 Act. Although many iwi may be unable to obtain a customary title under the new tests, they will still be able to enter into negotiations to obtain recognition of customary interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f1c66a7cada4c9ca8d41b55c1d365f9\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: He aha t\u0101na whakautu ki te k\u014Drero a te r\u014Dia a Prue Kapua \u201Che tino taiapa te nui o te utu ki te kawe i te take nei ki te K\u014Dti Teitei m\u014D ng\u0101 iwi m\u0113 ng\u0101 hap\u016B\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[What is his response to the statement by counsel Pru Kapua that \u201Cthe exorbitant cost is a real barrier for tribes and subtribes to take this matter to High Court\u201D?] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221eef4daa588f4796834bfd0c626da627\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: All litigation is expensive, but the High Court option is the best option because of the lack of availability of judicial review, the ability of the High Court to sit with experts, the ability of the High Court to refer matters to the M\u0101ori Appellate Court if there are questions of tikanga or fact, and the limited number of appeals. So I believe that the High Court route is ultimately less expensive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222703177b20b94c8390853ab1904fbe0f\u0022\u003EElectricity\u2014Generated from Renewable Resources\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7d49eda6f284fb7bc3613a9dbe06692\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7d49eda6f284fb7bc3613a9dbe06692\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: How much of New Zealand\u2019s electricity generated in the March 2010 quarter came from renewable sources?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0f66d595dcb43028c4ddb2284517592\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0f66d595dcb43028c4ddb2284517592\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E Seventy-three percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228a0b3c03522b45cc8d5e2377ff5cd801\u0022\u003EBudget 2010\u2014Access to Appropriate and Affordable Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u00221b6195b34ceb45679f16dc4d57dc064f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b6195b34ceb45679f16dc4d57dc064f\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: What initiatives in Budget 2010 will guarantee that all New Zealanders have access to appropriate and affordable housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u00221b857d2782d14f0ebcfb0b48e1e75905\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b857d2782d14f0ebcfb0b48e1e75905\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E We are committed to assisting those most in need. The most significant Budget commitments we made were the income rents subsidy of $560 million, helping over 60,000 families; the accommodation supplement of $1.2 billion, helping 250,000 individuals; and the one-third of a billion dollars committed to insulating private homes, helping 180,000 people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221afda8c669b64b469ee077950ed4aee1\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: How does slashing the budget for acquisition and improvement of State houses by more than 80 percent and slashing the Healthy Housing programme by 62 percent help achieve this goal, particularly for those people like the young woman waiting for a kidney transplant highlighted in yesterday\u2019s Dominion Post, who has been waiting for an appropriate Housing New Zealand Corporation home for more than a year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ced988813474277b78e50d3bfcca8ff\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: When we took over the Government benches we found that the State housing stock had been left in serious disrepair. As part of the stimulus package to help the country through the recession, we decided to inject $120 million into repairing State houses and acquiring some more. That is now coming to an end. We are now at a more constant funding level. We will be upgrading up to 8,000 houses in the next 12 months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a903ecbe46049d7b104b6885fd9918b\u0022\u003EHekia Parata\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. How many New Zealanders have been supported in buying their own homes this year through the extended Welcome Home Loan scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5b33b481d1c40c69c1a92cdd65182f3\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: From 1 July 2009 to May 2010, 1,660 Welcome Home Loans were settled, which translates to access to home finance of $348 million for 2,500 New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229985a973e36843999de0ffb9eec5a6fc\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: That applause will make him feel better. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9e653ef95944d368967d5f93321293d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I must have missed something. I have no idea what went on there, but all I know is that the House was totally disorderly and disrespectful to the member I have called, Moana Mackey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022479c12ca0b6f4a919cc1bb83cad1d796\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the figure provided to the Social Services Committee by the Housing New Zealand Corporation that only a net 282 homes will be added to the State housing stock over the next year; and does he believe that is adequate to address the growing Housing New Zealand Corporation waiting list, which now stands at nearly 11,000, 400 of whom are in severe housing need?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227426fd43be85450cb924b4c5197d9df6\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: A range is given of, I think, between 242 and 302 State houses that will be acquired that year. We are not only acquiring State houses but also upgrading them, because we do not believe that current tenants should live in shabby conditions just so that we can acquire new houses, as happened under the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cc85f7b2b1a42b3a7e6dc132c97e56f\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: If the Housing New Zealand Corporation is not able to \u201Csharpen their pencil\u201D and find savings out of baselines to acquire and maintain State houses, will the acquisitions and maintenance work not happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022027303e0394f4938b50a1c5e8c80f2a0\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have already made it clear that up to 8,000 State houses will be upgraded in one form or another over the next 12 months, and we will be increasing our State housing stock.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022866d39b93f2a4aa4b86426f414f1fcfe\u0022\u003EImprest Supply (First for 2010/11) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022183c15929aaf460fb2fb30e2334091a3\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00226ad27b91a684471fabc71b574dd1cf18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ad27b91a684471fabc71b574dd1cf18\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Imprest Supply (First for 2010/11) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220a250d006f8a404c996401fe7bf3109e\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2009/10 Supplementary Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220a250d006f8a404c996401fe7bf3109e\u0022\u003EImprest Supply (First for 2010/11) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e3321d586ab44e1180338965c25e595c\u0022\u003ESecond Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00227498fad5f1004d14801f95c3c181c0cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227498fad5f1004d14801f95c3c181c0cb\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Appropriation (2009/10 Supplementary Estimates) Bill and the Imprest Supply (First for 2010/11) Bill be now read a second time. This is an opportunity, about a month after the Budget, to reflect on just where the New Zealand economy is going and what needs to be done to get it into shape. It is a common view that the New Zealand economy was getting along all right until late 2008, then it got hit by the global recession, and now we are recovering from that recession. That is only part of the story. The other part of the story is just as important, and that is the story about what happened in this economy from about 2004-05.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWhat happened was that our earning capacity shrank. In the 5 years from 2004 the tradable sector of this economy shrank by 10 percent, and our spending capacity grew\u2014in fact, it grew by about 15 percent in the 5 years from 2004. Clearly, that is unsustainable. We cannot continue to maintain an economy where our growth in spending and consumption is significantly faster than our growth in earning capacity or, as happened, our shrinkage in earning capacity. The country has done what any household or individual does when it spends more than it earns; it has borrowed to cover the difference. That borrowing has now become really quite extensive. One measure of it is called the net international investment position. It is a measure of what New Zealand owes to the world. What we owed to the world back in 2000 was about $90 billion; currently, we owe around $170 billion to overseas lenders. The forecasts that take into account the impact of the recession tell us that by 2014 we could owe the rest of the world $250 billion, or, in American numbers, around a quarter of a trillion dollars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe symptoms of that became particularly obvious in the second half of this decade. We saw a property boom, a boom in speculation, in which many New Zealanders were caught up. That property boom was financed by our banks borrowing overseas\u2014in effect, our households borrowing, with our banks as the intermediaries. We also saw a big upsurge in Government spending from about the middle of the decade. Both of those combined together pushed interest rates to pretty much record levels since the early 1990s and the exchange rate to the highest 5-year moving average since the Second World War. The effect of that was to suppress our export sector. It is no bigger now than it was in 2002, and there have been no net new jobs in the export sector for 10 years. As I explained in question time today, in the pure export sector we have had about 40,000 fewer jobs over recent years. So New Zealand has borrowed to cover the difference between a shrinking earning capacity through a shrinking export sector, and a fast-growing spending capacity through out-of-control Government spending and a property boom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe borrowing that adds up to our net international investment position is a concern. It is not an immediate, pressing issue, but it is a concern, for the same reasons that extensive debt bothers a household, a family, or a business. First, we have to pay the interest. That shows up through our current account deficit. This economy, when it rolls out of bed on Monday morning, has to meet the interest bill on $170 billion owed to foreign lenders before it does anything else. Before we can buy back assets, before we can invest in our own businesses, before we can make the capital investment that might create a new job, we have to spend the first 6 or 7 percent of GDP servicing our debt to foreign lenders. The second reason we worry about it is simply that it represents a vulnerability in a world where lenders are getting grumpy. I do not think there is any doubt about that. If we follow the financial markets from day to day, we see regular headlines now about countries and businesses within countries that are struggling to borrow the money they need from global financial markets. Of course, New Zealand does not want to get into that position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe Budget we have just had is one step\u2014and I would say it is only one step\u2014down a path to reducing our vulnerability to our overseas lenders if we possibly can, which will be a long-term job; increasing our growth rates; and ensuring we get a recovery that helps to rebalance the economy. The Budget started that process of rebalancing. We made it clear that we cannot afford to have another cycle where people spend too much, borrow excessively, and speculate on property, and investment and the export sector effectively shrink. That is simply not on for New Zealand in the next 10 years. So we made a decision in the Budget to change the incentives through the tax system. The changes in the tax system are unambiguously aimed at discouraging excessive consumption and property speculation, and encouraging, through lower tax rates, more investment, more jobs, and more savings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EBut that is one part of the programme. Another part of the programme, as expressed in the Budget, is that we have to get hold of the quantity and quality of public spending. Although households have been spending more than they earn for a fair bit of the last decade, until 2008 the Government was actually bringing in more revenue than it was spending, and was running surpluses. That position started reversing from Budget 2008, before the global financial crisis. As the Government has decided to absorb the shock of the recession on its balance sheet, and as it has decided to protect New Zealanders from the sharp edges of recession, it is now running up deficits and running up debt, which is contributing to New Zealand\u2019s vulnerability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003ESo the Budget does focus on containing the growth of Government spending. By and large, pretty well everyone in New Zealand accepts that now is the time to do that, after 10 years of plenty in the State sector. Probably the members of the Labour Opposition are the only people in the country who believe that the Government should keep the spending tap open and let it flow, regardless of the quality of that spending, and send the bill to the next generation of workers through borrowing. The Budget sets out the limit on the growth of Government spending. It also includes around $1.8 billion of reprioritising of Government spending\u2014that is, shifting spending from low-quality and, in some cases, quite ineffective programmes to high-quality, more effective front-line services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EThe business of rebalancing the New Zealand economy is, in my view, about a 10-year job. The early signs are promising. Households are not going on a spending binge and they are not rushing back to the housing market. They are being careful about their borrowing, and the good news on the earning side of the economy is that our terms of trade are about as high as they have ever been\u2014that is, the prices we are getting for our exports have lifted significantly over the past 2 or 3 years. The early signs are that we will have a rebalanced recovery\u2014that is, sustainable growth through earning more from the rest of the world, and consumers, households, and a Government that are trying to contain their spending and consumption. A feature of the Government\u2019s economic policy over the next few years, and of a whole lot of decisions made both within and outside the Budget, will be that we continue to pursue the theme of rebalancing the economy. Some of these issues are not new for the New Zealand economy, but, certainly, in the second half of the last decade they became significantly worse, and the damage caused in that period will take some considerable time to undo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI am pleased to move that these bills be read a second time. They are the legislative expression of decisions made by a Government with a clear sense of direction and a long-term plan, and built on the resilience we have seen from New Zealanders through this recession. New Zealand has handled the bad times fairly well, and we are in a great position over the next 4 or 5 years to make the best use of the better times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u00226291346e3f2c4555a84fa42031572ebf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226291346e3f2c4555a84fa42031572ebf\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the words after \u201CThat\u201D be omitted and the following substituted: \u201Cthis House has no confidence in the National Government because these Supplementary Estimates fail to redress the underlying problems and omissions from Budget 2009, which remain uncorrected by Budget 2010, namely the triple deficit of grossly inadequate national savings, made worse by the halving of KiwiSaver incentives and the indefinite deferral of New Zealand Superannuation pre-funding; a deep, persistent and dangerous current account deficit, driven by a growing net investment imbalance and a financial sector that is almost entirely foreign owned; and an innovation deficit made worse by scrapping the research and development tax credits and the Fast Forward Fund; resulting in increasing reliance on commodity trade that is highly exposed to price fluctuations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe supplementary estimates record changes in appropriations made during the previous fiscal year to ensure that all expenditure is transparent and all funds are appropriately dealt with. In other words, they record changes to the direction of fiscal travel since the previous Budget was brought down. Accordingly, we must look to the supplementary estimates to see whether any action was taken by the Government over the fiscal year following Budget 2009.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EOne thing is also clear from the Imprest Supply (First for 2010/11) Bill, which has been introduced without prior notice in this debate. That is that there is no mention of the Pacific Economic Development Agency, which the Minister of Finance has said does not contain a guaranteed appropriation. Yet if it was not to have that appropriation, we would expect to see that spelt out somewhere in this Imprest Supply Bill, which it is not. The bill simply provides a blanket authority for all of the Budget lines set out in Budget 2010, which included an explicit appropriation for the friends of the National Party, dressed up in a 57-word proposal under the name of the Pacific Economic Development Agency, an agency that will come back to bite the Minister on many occasions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EBudget 2009 was remarkable for what it did not do. After 9 long years in Opposition, and the spur of the most significant international financial crisis since the Great Depression, Bill English looked every bit like a deer caught in the headlights. Had it not been for Labour\u2019s far-sighted and well-timed stimulus package in Budget 2008, the casualties of that road kill would have been tens of thousands more New Zealand jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EBudget 2009 did precisely nothing to help New Zealand workers. It did nothing to address the rising costs of living, such as the price of food, power, rents, and rates, and nothing to offset the loss of overtime, wage rises forgone, and businesses drying up due to a lack of domestic and export demand. It did nothing to heal the hurt of communities torn apart by massive lay-offs and plant closures. Indeed, it made only one major decision, which was to postpone\u2014it said for a decade but in reality it was indefinitely\u2014pre-funding of New Zealand superannuation. Having wrecked KiwiSaver and the research and development tax credits almost immediately on taking office, in order to fund the previous round of upper-income tax cuts, National did not even appear interested in a plan for jobs and incomes, or in rebalancing this economy. Instead we were forced to watch while the so-called \u201Cdo-fest\u201D of the Job Summit produced a \u201Ccycleway to nowhere\u201D, and a 9-day working fortnight scheme that was so badly patronised by business that the Government itself canned it in the middle of a recession.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWhile the Government was PR-spinning, real New Zealanders were losing their jobs, incomes, and hopes. Unemployment rose from 3.4 percent under Labour to 7.1 percent, and 60,000 Kiwi breadwinners and families were robbed of their security and future. There are few social ills crueller than unemployment, and New Zealanders deserved more than spin, more than a so-called rolling maul of short-term responses. They deserved a real, credible, strategic plan to create and protect jobs and rebalance this economy. They did not get it in Budget 2009, and they do not have it in the supplementary estimates, which are the subject of this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe interesting thing is that there is now broad agreement across the floor of the House that the New Zealand economy is grossly unbalanced and that urgent change is required. Even the Minister of Finance has described New Zealand\u2019s net international liabilities as New Zealand\u2019s greatest single vulnerability. The reality is that New Zealanders are beset by a triple deficit. We do not save enough to wean ourselves off an almost total reliance on foreign capital. As a result our net international indebtedness, as the Minister has pointed out, is approaching 100 percent of our gross domestic product. That is $40,000, in round figures, for every man, woman, and child in New Zealand. Every New Zealander owes $40,000 each to foreign lenders, while the Government does nothing about it. By far the majority of that debt is private debt, not Government debt. So although fiscal prudence remains important, no amount of trimming the Government\u2019s sails by cutting night classes and accident compensation benefits will turn the boat round and solve the crisis, which is the lack of private savings in this economy. National has produced no solutions to this crisis, and, indeed, it has made it worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ENew Zealand does not export enough to consistently close a yawning current account deficit, which is forecast to blow out again from 3 percent to over 7 percent of GDP, according to Treasury estimates. It makes no sense to sell public assets like Kiwibank or private assets like dairy farms simply to make up the difference, because we are not paying our way as a nation. Selling our best assets means fewer income streams down the track, and eventually a \u201Cdoom loop\u201D sets in when we become simply unable to catch up or to keep up. Opening up the Overseas Investment Commission to further liberalisation simply makes that matter worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThirdly, New Zealand does not innovate enough to sustainably lift our productivity, wages, and international competitiveness. Instead, under this Government, we appear to be falling back on the age-old habit of being price-takers on a commodity price path that resembles the orbit of a yo-yo. Adding value to our extraordinary primary produce through the ingenuity of our farmers and scientists, and enhancing our natural environment in doing so, go hand in hand with improving the sustainability of our earnings and underpinning an outstanding quality of life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EAccordingly, what Labour was looking for in these supplementary estimates was the kind of plan that Labour would have put in place to improve savings, exports, and innovation, and to rebalance this economy. Let us consider a couple of the key elements very briefly. Fact: Labour brought in KiwiSaver, which meant that ordinary Kiwi workers could put in 4 percent of their wages and get 10 percent back as a total contribution to savings, thereby allowing them to retire in security. National cut those benefits in half in its first few months in office. Why? That was to pay for tax cuts for upper-income earners. Fact: Labour pre-funded New Zealand superannuation so our old people could be secure in the dignity of their retirement. Fact: National has postponed, indefinitely, pre-funding superannuation because it did not have the responsibility to take a long-term view. Fact: National did nothing in Budget 2009 to turn round the savings gap. Fact: Labour will lead on savings by 2011 through new, safe savings products that Kiwis can depend on by restoring and strengthening KiwiSaver and by immediately resuming pre-funding of New Zealand superannuation at a level we can afford.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIn respect of the current account deficit, Labour recognises that existing monetary policy settings penalise exporters. One can expect further announcements from Labour on this in the coming weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022068da4f5751c4a96a27f36fd2116ab5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022068da4f5751c4a96a27f36fd2116ab5c\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E It may surprise David Cunliffe, the member who has just resumed his seat to know that when all of the rhetoric is stripped away, there would be substantial agreement with the core proposition that he presented. I certainly agree that New Zealand does not export enough, that we do not innovate enough, and that we do not save enough. It is easy to say those things. The challenge becomes one of implementing policies that will achieve change in those areas, and that is where I start to part company with the member who has just resumed his seat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI am probably in the unique position of being able to give a somewhat dispassionate analysis of what has happened since 2008. I say to the previous Government that at the time that the 2008 Budget was prepared, the depth of the international global recession was not readily imaginable. Members will recall a fateful week in October 2008, in the midst of our election campaign. It began one weekend with the Irish Government announcing that because of the depth of the international recession, it was going to immediately guarantee all bank deposits. Around the world people thought that was a very far-fetched decision. By the end of the week every Government, including ours, was doing the same in respect of its own nation. The point of my saying that is to underline the speed and the depth of, and the lack of clear vision leading up to, this crisis. So when our Government changed in November\u2014a few short weeks after that calamitous week\u2014it clearly needed to take stock and to make a series of changes to the existing settings to get New Zealanders through the situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe member made a telling point that I want to come back to. He talked about unemployment. The experience of New Zealand in previous recessions, under both Labour and National Governments, has been that the first casualty was employment. People went on to the scrap heap. The fact that this year in this recession, contrary to predictions of a much higher level of unemployment, New Zealand\u2019s unemployment rate has topped out at around 7 percent is a deliberate tribute to the policies put in place after 2008 to cushion that impact, to keep people in jobs, and to make sure that we did not suffer the level of unemployment that bedevilled us in the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EWhen the Budget was brought down in 2009, it was against the backdrop of a rapidly deteriorating revenue base. We had gone through a decade of Budget surpluses; we were now into a period of prolonged deficit. We wanted to preserve the social core that I have just spoken of, and to position this economy for the transition through the recession last year to recovery this year and beyond. The measures contained in that Budget, which led to the initiatives that were able to be taken this year, have positioned New Zealand very strongly for the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EIn addition to the problems that the Opposition spokesperson on finance postulated at the beginning of his speech, three other issues consistently affect the New Zealand economy. First, we have a highly skilled but highly mobile labour force. Outside Ireland and Luxembourg, we have the highest rate of any OECD country of our labour force living overseas, and we do not have the luxury that those countries have of being able to spread their workers around their European Union neighbours. Second, we have significant levels of debt: $170 billion, on current estimates. It does not actually matter whether it is public or private debt; it is all debt that has accumulated in the ledger entry against New Zealand. Third, we face chronic fiscal problems in terms of balancing our Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe challenge that the Government faced, and the reason why it embarked upon what was to become a major programme of taxation reform\u2014a tax switch, if you like\u2014was to rebalance the economy in such a way as to give us a fighting chance of improving our productivity and savings record, of boosting our export growth, and of creating a positive future for New Zealanders, so that they would feel inclined to stay here and build this economy, rather than go and assist other nations to build their economies. What has happened since the Budget? The profound changes to personal tax rates, the restructuring of the property investment regime, and the move to increase the GST rate, with full compensation being provided to affected parties, have had a generally positive reaction around New Zealand, because New Zealanders have seen these measures as being steps in the right direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EWhen we look at the structure of the marginal tax rates we see that now, from 1 October, the top marginal rate payable by nearly three-quarters of New Zealand taxpayers will be just 17.5c in the dollar. That is a profound shift from what it was 2 years ago. In fact, it is almost half the rate of tax that someone at that level of income would have been paying 2 years ago. That is a huge improvement. The biggest proportionate changes in tax rates have been at the bottom end of the scale, so that people on low incomes now get a much better boost from the tax system than they did previously. That has to be good news. We have stopped the rort of high-income earners being able to channel their incomes through trusts to minimise their tax liability, and we have stopped that rort by aligning those rates. That will mean there are more opportunities for additional capital to be invested in savings and further investment in order to boost the growth of the New Zealand economy. We have tackled the imbalances in the property market through the removal of depreciation, but we have not distorted the market through taking other, more punitive measures. Again, that is about giving New Zealanders an opportunity to make their investment decisions based on the quality of the investment concerned, not the tax advantages to be derived from it. It is little wonder that around this country at the moment people are saying this is a step forward, a balanced Budget tax package, and one that gives us some hope. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI note that that is causing the Opposition parties some particular difficulty. I note that Mr Cunliffe was in Palmerston North recently. He basically said the Budget has some good elements, and a reversal of the Government\u2019s GST hike is unlikely if Labour takes charge after the next election, but exempting fresh fruit and vegetables from GST is a serious option. He also went on to say he is not opposed to the reduction in the company tax rate, but he signalled\u2014and here is the crunch\u2014that the overblown property sector would come under further scrutiny if Labour returned to power next year. So a capital gains tax is back on the Opposition\u2019s agenda. Let the Opposition members deny that; it has always been something that they have hankered after. It is signalled very clearly there. When we add to that other statements from the Opposition that the way to align the tax rates is to keep the top personal tax rate at 38 percent and boost the trust rate to 38 percent, then we are drawn to this conclusion: change the Government, and New Zealanders will pay more tax on their income, and they will pay more tax when it comes to a capital gains tax on virtually everything that moves, other than the family home. That is highly complicated and highly inefficient, but it is what the Opposition members are hankering after. The fundamental challenges that the New Zealand economy faces will not be dealt with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EA lot of people say we have to stop the bleeding of our population, of young people in particular, to Australia and to elsewhere. That is fair enough. One of the drivers\u2014by no means the only driver\u2014of that is what people perceive to be fairer and more equitable taxation regimes elsewhere. What we will see, if the changes that are being proposed by members opposite come to effect, is that the trickle that we have at the moment will become an absolute flood. There will be no incentive for young people to stay to make a future here, and there certainly will not be any incentive for them to return home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003ESo what we face with regard to this Budget, the progress from it, and the steps that will follow it is a generational change in the psyche of New Zealanders when it comes to thinking about their future. This Government is trying to say to people that it wants to give them a chance to have a positive future. It wants to give them some encouragement, so that they can do better than they are currently doing. We now see from the Opposition a grudging acceptance of that, but also a return to the old envy politics, where there would be higher taxes for higher tax earners\u2014and we have seen the distortion that that has caused over the years. Labour\u2019s putting up the top personal tax rate 10 years ago was the biggest single taxation policy blunder in this country\u2019s history in that time. It has led to massive avoidance and evasion problems, which we are now getting on top of. Those members want to return to that and to saddle the New Zealand population with a capital gains tax, as well. The country will face a stark choice next year, not just in political terms but in terms of its own future. I am very confident that young New Zealanders who are weighing up their options will not want to rejoin the race to the past that is being painted by members opposite. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI come back, as I conclude, to Mr Cunliffe\u2019s scenario. New Zealanders need to invest more, to export more, and to save more, but we also need to have liberating policies that will achieve that, not stifling bureaucracy and controls that will prevent people from realising their potential. That is the challenge that faces this country. This Budget, this financial programme, is about giving New Zealanders that positive opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022565dbf5b534547cabc8ef9d212f64296\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022565dbf5b534547cabc8ef9d212f64296\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the amendment in the name of Hon David Cunliffe be amended by adding the following after \u201Cfluctuations\u201D: \u201Cand because the Government will not provide for the validation of borrowing by King\u2019s High School Dunedin and the allocation of funds to the repayment of loans relating to the Performing Arts Centre at no net cost to the Crown\u201D. That is an issue that I have undertaken to bring up on every occasion. On this particular occasion it will not add time to the debate, but there is an issue of gross injustice for a particular school. It is one that members of the Education and Science Committee know a lot about. It is something on which we have received support from the ACT Party in the past. I have undertaken to bring it up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThere will be occasions when matters that would have otherwise gone straight through the House will be delayed as a result of an amendment of this nature being moved. I want today, though, to focus on one particular issue, and that is the declarations made by the Attorney-General, and their veracity. There has been some publicity recently about declarations\u2014careless declarations, I think they could be described as\u2014in relation to Jonathan Young\u2019s declaration of pecuniary interest. He has moved to correct that. This week we want to address the issue of the hapless Chris Finlayson, who is already in serious trouble for the way he kept on changing his description of his relationship with a Supreme Court judge in whose favour he intervened, and especially because he did not inform either the Prime Minister or the Cabinet of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad7c2ba20fca4b84a1e751adb189a6d6\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek your assistance in determining whether what is being spoken of here in the House at the moment by the member opposite is within the scope of the bill that we are debating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265e5820eefb744bcbdf5d401a65007b3\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: The point I am getting to is whether the appropriation is sufficient for the inquiry that will result from the errors that Mr Finlayson has made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221efffd68e7ad42dc926b78b2756f9949\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a bit of new territory for me. I will have to take a little advice from the Clerk. I was trying to sort out a couple of other technical details at the time the speech began. This is an appropriation debate. I would like to hear from Mr Mallard, if he has a point to make, why the personal declaration that the member is making reference to is within the scope of an appropriation debate. It seems to me at the moment that it is beyond the scope of the appropriation. If he can put forward an argument that it is within the scope, I am willing to listen to it. But at this moment I think he is out of scope. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc415aaa7a9a4a0f9fcf472163d8e7d9\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I reiterate the point that I made, and it was about the next point that I was going to make: that it is important that the appropriations be sufficient to finance the inquiry, which could well end up being a royal commission of inquiry, into the approach that the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d82a070ba99e4dd297e58352dc569ad4\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c296fe1ded8a4851bc2a6ddda094b066\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am speaking to a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d551470378940b5900cd68447347853\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I am sorry; you did not say so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adee3e7983ff4909bf78e2fb1942ad11\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I was invited to speak to a point of order by the Speaker. The point that I am trying to make, Mr Speaker, is that it is my view that there must be an appropriation for a commission, especially a royal commission of inquiry. The point that I am trying to establish is that there will have to be an inquiry set up by the Prime Minister or the Minister of Internal Affairs into that area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022736b5bf73579402d893df14253e4c685\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is going to seek an extension to the appropriation for an inquiry, I think that is fine. But if the member is referring to pecuniary interests, as I heard him do before, then that is out of scope. So if the member wants to keep it to that, I will let him continue, as long as it is directed at the appropriation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282b6e695f41d41338bcbfa2898b06ec0\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Get some more advice on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff087fbdfb144152888f2a0a7207de99\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The Clerk advises me that it is a public affairs amendment, and it is therefore in scope. Yes, I have got\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a1e79224d1d436cae105c6181115f22\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Excuse me, Mr Speaker, but I also seek your assistance. The member opposite, Trevor Mallard\u2014and thank you for that clarification\u2014was also starting to reference members of our Supreme Court and matters that are under review there. I seek your advice, Mr Speaker, whether it was appropriate that those names are mentioned, as I think the member was going down that track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284f305a77a1045ec8795799c12fa2d78\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: It is not my intention to further mention that, and I did not, anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be93c9868b5d4879a4dd2214f862f412\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The member did make reference to the Supreme Court inquiries, but did not mention any particulars about it. He stopped one yard short of it. The member Craig Foss\u2019 point of order is well made. The Hon Trevor Mallard has indicated that he has no intention of going in that direction, nor should he. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4b9f566706f4f318a1777c58810d9da\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: The only point that I am making in this area is that the Attorney-General failed to inform Cabinet of his intention to intervene, and he failed to inform the Prime Minister when he ran into trouble. That is the reason that he already has problems. The Attorney-General helped to set up a company in 2006 after he became a member of Parliament. He became a director of it then, and he has failed to declare it on any return since that date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227a51a61e0914b49bb82002890993e5a\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am aware of your previous rulings on this matter. I think the Hon Trevor Mallard was straying well outside the topic of the debate. He may well have just completely defied you with the statement he made in the House while you were in discussions with the Clerk. This is an appropriation debate, and those matters are not part of that debate. It is not a general debate; it is not particularly wide ranging. Relevance should be something that I think the Chair looks at in this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a79f793f3a054e4e9fb8010bd35fd565\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The ruling I gave earlier was on advisement from the Clerk at the Table. The Clerk\u2019s advice was that the member had moved an amendment about those matters, which involved an appropriation. Therefore, the member was entitled to speak about them. That is the advice I got from the Clerk. I have cautioned the member that he is to speak specifically to that amendment and keep himself well constrained within that. As long as he does, then he remains within the ambit of this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8bfbbf3711248909de73ca16c114481\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I assume, then, that if I go to the Table I can pick up a copy of the amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ecda91a87844198805dd86a4946828d\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: A copy of the amendment should be on the Table. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fb93ae39ffa48efbc732709e59da3fb\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: There are two amendments sitting there. This debate is also on an Imprest Supply Bill, so it is very broad\u2014it is absolutely broad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022176b0aa08dba4f38a5d0b7d40d4cc11e\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: But why are they not on the Table here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294cf3658c82e4c019fe35f3373152e6e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the Clerk whether the amendment is on the Table. If the member has moved it, the amendment should be available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b09666e5ab38468388531d05eb613dfe\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Well, could I have one? Could you direct me to where it might be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221295257e51cd4a45ab7fc166599f44d8\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we cannot hold up the debate for that. I will ask\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0562a4fa2ef4219b929858f6f439882\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: We can\u2019t have a debate if members do not know what they are debating, for goodness\u2019 sake. That is why we have bills on the Table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d411ef20801b4c6b9f838716be2e30fa\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c349caaa25bc4c79b5d468af9a57bfcd\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I will just deal with this matter first. We have a slight difficulty. The member moved an amendment in the House and spoke to it at that time, so all members who were here would have heard it. There is nothing unusual about that. The amendment, as I understand it, is in typewritten form, and it should be on the Table. If it is not, then I will ask the Clerk to attend to it and make sure that Mr Brownlee has a copy of it immediately. But I assure him that the member, when he started his speech, read out the amendment to the House, and thereby, in reading it\u2014as in a first reading\u2014has now made it available to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf0906ded4f6462fa986be84eab60db7\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just ask you for further advice on relevance here. I thought that part of the debate was the second reading of the Imprest Supply (First for 2010/11) Bill. Is that the case?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275f77d20ac4640b2aaebc5b0458e7bbe\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: As I understand it, that is the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc7222899724481f8cbf6dac9351eef7\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is a very broad debate. It is about the financing of the Government for the first 3 months of the next financial year until the Budget goes through. I do not think there is a wider debate than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224111e71b0014120a4d2a9391b353c40\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I draw members\u2019 attention to the motion moved by the Hon Bill English that the Appropriation (2009/10 Supplementary Estimates) Bill and the Imprest Supply (First for 2010/11) Bill be now read a second time. That is the question that is before the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ab5aa652c3248b9a1f92618904a6281\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I will go back to the point I was making, which is to ask the Government whether there is enough money allocated by the Imprest Supply (First for 2010/11) Bill to finance a commission of inquiry into the declarations made by the Hon Chris Finlayson. The Standing Orders are very clear; clause 4(1) of Appendix B, states: \u201CEvery return of pecuniary interests must contain the following information as at the effective date of the return: (a) the name of each company of which the member is a director \u2026\u201D. The 2008 Privileges Committee report makes it very clear that it is up to every member to ascertain, make clear, and understand their own pecuniary interests, and to declare them. The report concerned the Peters case, on that occasion. The Office of the Clerk has recently been quoted as stating: \u201CMembers are required to declare the name of each company of which the MP is a director \u2026\u201D, and, at the very worst, non-declaration \u201Ccould be contempt of the House if an MP has knowingly provided false information to the House.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI submit to the House the words of the then Leader of the Opposition, Don Brash, when he said: \u201CLawyers are the professionals we depend on in our society to ensure the accuracy of the documents that they sign. They should not sign documents knowing them to be false under any circumstances. For the most senior law official in the land, the Attorney-General, to have done so not once but on several occasions, is a serious matter. Mr Parker was right to tender his resignation. I commend him for that.\u201D I will now quote the leader of the ACT Party, Rodney Hide, when he said: \u201CI say to Helen Clark that her Government now lacks integrity and honesty. I think that filing a false statement, a statutory document, when one is the Attorney-General and a Minister of the Crown is unacceptable. I think this issue does need a full investigation. I say to the House that it is an important job to hold Ministers to account. That is what Parliament does\u2014that is our Westminster parliamentary democracy.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDavid Parker stood down because there was doubt as to whether he had signed an incorrect statement. As it turned out, he had not; he was reinstated to the executive, but because there was doubt about that, and because he had not been sure, he was not reinstated to the Attorney-General role. It appears, on the face of the documents, that Mr Finlayson has signed a false statement every year since March 2006. His declarations cannot be accurate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022976575f71ba34c2686da25518ab6f3e8\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The assertion made by the Hon Trevor Mallard is, I think, to say the least, outrageous, but also completely spurious. If Mr Mallard was in any way convinced by his own argument, quite clearly he would have gone to the remedy available to him in the Standing Orders. Rather, he is indulging himself, at the expense of the dignity of the House, in what is effectively an orchestrated attempt to take down a member, when there is no such case to answer. I have looked at the motion by the Hon Bill English. I am looking at the second reading amendment by the Hon David Cunliffe. I am looking at the second reading amendment by the Hon Trevor Mallard. Regardless of the claim that an Imprest Supply Bill allows a wider debate, the member himself has said that it is about the first 3 months of funding available to the Government. I think that where we are heading at the moment is well outside what would be expected in this debate, and the member does himself no credit by having completely failed to accept the remedy that is readily available to him, should there have been any validity in the comments he is now trying to put across to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f71d8a4e99f046b08884904daa264935\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I think the assumption that the member is making is that the declaration of pecuniary interests is wrong. It may be that the Companies Office declarations are wrong. It may be that the declaration that has been made to the Chief Registrar of Electors\u2014which I will get to soon\u2014is wrong. I do not know which of the documents are accurate; they are inconsistent. Mr Finlayson has made three separate declarations. Therefore, I have chosen to bring up the matter this way, as is my right. I have not suggested a breach of privilege, because that would work on the assumption that the Companies Office declaration was right and the declaration made to the Registrar of Pecuniary Interests of Members of Parliament was wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f2be830e15840d8a49b212810cfcc11\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: It is a serious matter\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df3a6c5e742c4b66a168e1ed021ccbde\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: It is a very serious matter\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e03d5da88c374a0ebb702533790dc470\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I think the member, in his protestations in that little offering to the House, has condemned his own course of action. He has previously said that he believes that those matters should be investigated. The way in which he can have that investigation\u2014or could have had that investigation\u2014is, firstly, to write to the member seeking a clarification. Mr Finlayson is a very senior lawyer who is very well respected in the profession, and I am quite sure he is not a man given to making mistakes. Secondly, had the member followed that course of action and gone into the issue of privilege, there would have been an inquiry, quite naturally, conducted by the Speaker. I think the problem we have here is that the Registrar of Pecuniary Interests of Members of Parliament requires that members act honourably in the disclosures they make in that register. So we are indulging Mr Mallard this afternoon in allowing him to impugn the reputation of a member simply because he himself has failed to follow the right process to get to the bottom of what clearly appears to be a matter causing him to lose sleep. It is a nonsense. It is outside the confines of this debate by any stretch of the imagination or by any tolerance that might normally be allowed, and I suggest that it is inappropriate in this debate for those allegations to be laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286aabd1ce0634cd588eabda9d0a15cf6\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I want to put a couple of things on the table. Firstly, I am not in a position to measure the rights and wrongs of this. Members who make statements in this House are entitled to do so, and they can be held accountable for them if they are found to have overstepped the mark, by claim and counterclaim. If the claims made are utterly without foundation, and they have affected a member\u2019s reputation, then members who are so offended can take the matter to the Privileges Committee. Members do not have an untrammelled right to take a member\u2019s reputation down in this House; that is clear. I refer members to that worthy book McGee. On the subject of the Address in Reply and the Budget debates, McGee writes that in practice there is virtually no limitations to those debates on the grounds of relevancy. So according to McGee and the advice I have received from the Clerk, this is a very free-ranging debate, without limits, and on that basis I invite Mr Mallard to speak. But before that I will hear a point of order from the Hon Gerry Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b0cd7dc7be24fbea4e62fbffa659faf\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. There is some absurdity in what you are suggesting, if I might suggest so. It would seem, then, that if someone came into this House and used his or her speaking slot to recite nursery rhymes during a debate like this, that would be perfectly acceptable. I think it would, in fact, be trifling with the House. I think it would be stretching the House\u2019s tolerance for such an action to be taken. I think there is no difference, though, between that and coming into the House and deciding to run out a series of allegations designed to besmirch the reputation of a member, which is a style of politics well known to be the trademark of the Hon Trevor Mallard, and I think it is inappropriate in this debate. The Speaker is not bound by Mr McGee\u2019s writings, much referred to though that large volume might be. The Speaker\u2019s responsibility is to ensure that Parliament itself is not the subject of disreputable behaviour or trifling with the right to speak freely in this House. Indeed, the Speaker has a responsibility, equally, to ensure that the rights of members are not unduly trampled upon in the processes of this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1348ced9f8643bdb73313704e75a8cf\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I will just respond to that before I call the Hon Trevor Mallard. All those things are very good, but I say to the member that, from my own experience, these debates have always been free ranging and wide ranging. On occasions it has been so wide that I have wondered what points members were trying to make. If members got up and recited nursery rhymes, I am sure they would receive public opprobrium for that. That is one of the constraints on the debate. But in this particular debate, if the member makes accusations, at the end of the debate the member will be held accountable for them. I am sure the member is well aware of that. Whatever he says will be noted, and he will be held to account for it. The member has received the warning from the Hon Gerry Brownlee to tread cautiously. I think he has received that loud and clear, and he has 3 minutes and 33 seconds remaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa72d40757de4f2c8928c203806d28e2\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. On 9 March 2006, at 11 minutes past 1\u2014and 33 seconds\u2014there was an application to incorporate a company known as Te Puhi Trustee (2) Ltd. Associated with that is a document that is signed by one C F Finlayson of 42 Molesworth Street. That company has filed returns online since then on 20 February 2007, 17 April 2008, 27 April 2009, and 9 March 2010. Those returns are very similar, other than the fact that there was a change in the online particulars of directors to do with one C F Finlayson in the 2010 return. I say that only to emphasise the fact that in 2010, again, Mr Finlayson was aware of the fact that he was a director of that company, which he had not declared. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThere is another matter that I will refer to, and that is the fact that Mr Finlayson enrolled on 20 June 2008 at 69 High Street, Island Bay. As at 5 minutes ago he had not changed that enrolment. So we have a situation where someone is enrolled at one place, which must be his place of residence, and is declaring to the Companies Office another place, which must also be his place of residence. That is a matter, I think, for the registrar\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9560cf07c3b4d90bd0306ec5296e73d\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Sounds like David Cunliffe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276d31630497246fda603172644e3bb38\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014that is the approach that Bill English has taken, but I understand that he has corrected that now. All I am saying about the Attorney-General is that, in the words of the then Leader of the Opposition, Don Brash: \u201CLawyers are the professionals we depend on in our society to ensure the accuracy of the documents that they sign. They should not sign documents knowing them to be false under any circumstances. For the most senior law official in the land,\u201D\u2014that is not quite right\u2014\u201Cthe Attorney-General, to have done so not once but on several occasions, is a serious matter. Mr Parker\u201D\u2014that is to whom he was referring\u2014\u201Cwas right to tender his resignation.\u201D I want to know now whether the standards that National members say apply to Labour Attorneys-General apply to National Attorneys-General too. Is it all right for their Attorney-General to make false declaration after false declaration and continue to hold the role, or is he the most senior law official\u2014not in the land, but in this Parliament\u2014and should we expect him to uphold the standards of the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u002271ab84f03c954ed59b276010fb53464c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271ab84f03c954ed59b276010fb53464c\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E If I were a Labour list MP and if I were on the middle backbenches I would be very, very worried, because what we just heard was a member, Mr Mallard, going back to the default position of muckraking and being down in the gutter. That is exactly why Labour plummeted from having 9 years of power to being in Opposition now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003ERecent polls, like the one the other night, show exactly why Labour members polled so badly at the last election. They had their officials going through old documents, mucking around in the gutter, trying to interpret things the wrong way round, and spending taxpayers\u2019 funds along the way. They tried to dig up dirt on good members of this House and people who were members of this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI would be very, very worried if I were a Labour member. Even before that speech Labour members should have been worried. If one of the younger Labour MPs saw and heard what we just witnessed for the last 20 minutes, he or she should be very, very worried. I see about five list MPs on the other side of the House, and every single one of them is in dire straits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EWhen the public realise that some of their front-bench members are back at their default position, they should be very, very concerned indeed. New Zealanders are tired of that kind of rhetoric. They are disgusted by it. They have no interest in it, and recent events do not reflect very well on some of the more, let us say, pleasant members on the other side of the House. I am personally quite affronted by it. There are avenues one can take to investigate the matters the previous speaker was suggesting. Those avenues are open to every member, and it is interesting that that particular member chose not to follow them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EA few weeks ago the Hon Pete Hodgson had a go at our Prime Minister, John Key, about trusts. It was all rubbish, it was all a facade, and it was all chucking mud. But the best thing about it was that when he realised he was wrong, he announced he would not be standing for Parliament again. Perhaps that has set a precedent for Mr Mallard, given what he has been going on about. I apologise for having to address that issue for the last few minutes, but it cannot go unaddressed. I repeat that if I were a newer Labour member, or even one of the members who have been here for a while, I would be very, very concerned. The 30 percent poll rating those members saw on TV3 the other night has just gone below 30 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI turn to the supplementary estimates and imprest supply debate. National inherited quite a shambles. We released the Budget almost a month ago, on 20 May. It was the Budget we would like to have produced in 2009, but the global recession that was hitting New Zealand\u2019s shores compounded the recession that the previous administration had taken New Zealand into about 1 year before the rest of the world. That has made the job very, very hard. The decade of deficits was a mountain in front of us. There was rampant, out of control, unaccountable, non-responsive, unmeasured, and non-transparent spending. It was just out of control. There were underlying assumptions of continuing exponentially compounding growth in taxation revenue, and, therefore, spending by the public sector. The finance Minister, in his speech earlier, noted some of the facts around that. Anyone can remember it. Mr Cunliffe made a speech earlier, which was proof positive that the fiscal fairies are alive and well on the other side of the Chamber. The fiscal fairies are at the bottom of the Labour garden, or perhaps in the gutter with some of its members, as we have just heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe Budget has to try to address, and has addressed, some of the concerns and issues around KiwiRail. I will come back to asset management in a moment. I think KiwiRail owes the taxpayer about $1 billion at the moment, or maybe just shy of that amount. It is actually valued at something like $300 million, I think. The previous owners have done very, very well indeed out of the New Zealand taxpayer. It may seem old news, but the bottom line is that $700 million has been totally written off. It is not available for new hospitals, not available for schools, not available for roads, and not available for energy. Of course, there was an announcement in the Budget of $250 million of capital going into KiwiRail to try to fix up what was totally and hopelessly broken when the previous finance Minister totally overpaid for it. If members are wondering how the poor taxpayer was taken for a ride, I understand that the previous administration, whilst in negotiations for KiwiRail, called the owners to ask for the loan of a locomotive so that it could paint it in KiwiRail\u2019s colours in order to have a press announcement. Meanwhile, in the other room, negotiations were going on, and, funnily enough, the price suddenly went up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe Opposition spokesperson on finance spoke about the need to export. I am quite intrigued by this report in the Manawatu Standard. I recently featured in that newspaper. I went to the Manawat\u016B recently and spoke to a paying audience of about 35 to 40 people. I think they paid about $25 to $30 each to cover costs. The local member representing the Manawat\u016B had a bit of a go at me about it. He swore black and blue that Mr Cunliffe would be back but he would not be charging anybody to hear him. We noted that people get what they pay for. And it was of no surprise to anybody else; no one would expect to pay to hear Mr Cunliffe speak about the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EMr Cunliffe spoke to 25 people in Palmerston North. The headline in the Manawatu Standard read: \u201CLabour offers fresh reprieve to GST hike\u201D. How is that going to happen? He said that defining fresh fruit and vegetables will be relatively easy. Apparently, Labour would exempt fresh fruit and vegetables from GST. Labour had 9 years to do that. When Labour installed GST at 10 percent, or increased it from 10 percent to 12.5 percent, it never once mentioned, thought about, or publicly proclaimed that it would exempt fresh fruit and vegetables from GST. Mr Cunliffe said, and this is where I agree with him, the New Zealand economy \u201Csuffered\u201D\u2014he used the past tense, not the present tense\u2014from a toxic cocktail: \u201Cwe don\u2019t export enough, we don\u2019t innovate enough, we don\u2019t save enough.\u201D Well, hello, the solution after 9 years is that we do not export enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EDoes anyone remember Export Year? That was the solution. Talk about it, make some badges, and put out some pamphlets. Does anyone remember Export Year? Actually, exports plummeted. The finance Minister shared with us in his earlier speech that the export sector, the real sector of the economy, the part of the economy that creates jobs, creates wages, and keeps families in their homes with their mortgages, has been in recession since 2005\u2014in recession since 2005. Quite how that stayed under the radar for about 3-ish years I really do not know. I find it somewhat surprising. Now, this Budget is trying to address that, to rebalance the economy, to rebalance our export incentives to real incentives, using the levers of taxation and better cash flow of investment, and improving access to credit. The previous speaker said that there was nothing in the Budget about credit. Actually, the 2009 Budget he was talking about at the time got New Zealand a global credit rating upgrade. When we owe the rest of the world about $180 billion, it is pretty important to try to keep those rates as totally low as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EAn earlier speaker also talked about solutions. Labour will have a look at monetary policy. Labour seems to forget that in the last Parliament, initiated by the previous finance Minister, there was an inquiry into monetary policy at the Finance and Expenditure Committee. I am quite surprised that those people over there who have read lots of books about the economy, but not necessarily partaken in the economy, know better than the learned people with many years of experience, from across the spectrum, who came before the Finance and Expenditure Committee and said: \u201CHey, it\u2019s the best we\u2019ve got right now. We think it\u2019s doing a pretty good job.\u201D Not many of them seem to have read the price targets agreement, which we noted the other day during a public session at the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EOne final thing, as the Hon Peter Dunne alluded to, from the article in the Manawatu Standard it looks like Labour would bring in a capital gains tax. It looks like Labour would campaign on a capital gains tax. Well, OK, let Labour members go out there and do that, but they should note that the value of everyone\u2019s property has fallen by about 10 to 20 percent, or even 30 percent, over the last few years of the global recession. Labour will campaign on taxing the catch-up in people\u2019s properties. It would put on a capital gains tax, when all that people are doing is try to catch up in terms of where their valuation has been over the last few years. I am looking forward to Labour campaigning on, apparently, axing the GST rise\u2014but I do not know where the \u201CAxe the Tax\u201D bus has gone\u2014bringing in a capital gains tax, and raising income tax levels to higher than they were prior to this Budget. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022dcc1f4bcbc9545b1bfe6d70e374c5f30\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dcc1f4bcbc9545b1bfe6d70e374c5f30\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E \u201C \u2018The time has come,\u2019 the Walrus said, \u2018To talk of many things: Of shoes\u2014and ships\u2014and sealing wax\u2014Of cabbages\u2014and kings\u2014\u2019 \u201D, and also the Appropriation (2009/10 Supplementary Estimates) Bill. This bill seeks parliamentary authorisation of the individual appropriations and changes contained in this massive document before us, involving 68 votes or so, and running to 921 pages. Not all will have read every one. I have, however, been through it pretty much myself; and, perhaps more to the point of the broader implications of this debate, I have followed the Government\u2019s direction of the economy throughout the 2009-10 year to date, and the management of its public finances, with careful interest and with some sympathy. It is sympathy not because of any political empathy with its philosophical outlook but because of a sobered recognition of the enormity of the problems facing our country. On further analysis, that sympathy merges into an endless pity, because it is easily apparent that this Government is mired in an outmoded brand of economic orthodoxy that will be unable to solve those problems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThe supplementary estimates themselves make for sobered reading. The net position of the Crown\u2019s income and expenditure is $3.1 billion worse today than anticipated by the Government in its Budget of May 2009. Government expenditure for the year is set to be $3.3 billion higher than originally estimated\u2014up from $74.2 billion to $77.5 billion. Crown revenue and capital receipts are set to be only $0.2 billion higher\u2014up from $64.7 billion to $64.9 billion. So the net deficit will stand at $12.6 billion\u2014up from the original estimate of $9.5 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EI do not hold the Minister of Finance personally liable for these changes. They reflect the vagaries of macroeconomic change affecting a small and open economy in times of global turbulence. Nor do I wish to comment on the relative priorities accorded to departmental expenditure patterns in the supplementary estimates, whether defence should have more or less than education, whether revenue should or should not come from gaming, how much should be advanced to student loans, or what amount should be set aside for Kyoto Protocol liabilities, even though the Green Party does have views on these things as well. My comment concerns the broader issue of the underlying tenets of belief on which the Government pursues its macroeconomic management. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EWe ventured our critique of this in February in response to the Prime Minister\u2019s statement opening Parliament. National believes that the way to lift the country\u2019s economic performance is through continuous growth\u2014the Greens do not. When the Minister of Finance introduced this bill he spoke about sustainable growth. But in a global economy, whose ecological overshoot is already 30 percent, that is an oxymoron, and certainly for the richest countries, of which we still count as one. We agree with the Government that the New Zealand economy needs to be a smarter economy through upskilling, innovation on information technology, and adding value to our export commodities, but there the similarities end. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThe Government is prepared to do two things that we believe are fundamentally wrong and will prove ruinous for New Zealand. Firstly, it has an outmoded perception of the relationship between the economy and the environment. It believes that it can balance economic opportunity with environmental responsibility\u2014that is misguided. It was the President of the Maldives who cut through this commercial hubris. He said \u201CYou cannot cut a deal with Mother Nature\u201D, and he should know. His islands are becoming submerged through the climate change that the neoclassical economic model has bequeathed us. Our mindless national contribution to the challenge of climate change is to set aside a modest $546 million in Kyoto indulgences for 2013 and to bicker over whether we are out in front of the Western pack with our emissions trading scheme, as if an existential challenge to humankind can be priced in our supplementary estimates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EOne does not need to be a rocket scientist to know intuitively that the human economy is a subset, a wholly owned subsidiary, of the environment. The new emerging model of ecological economics on which the Green Party bases its economic policies is set to replace the neoclassical model pursued by neo-liberal Governments of modern times. Secondly, the Government is prepared to sell off our asset wealth to pay our way through recession. It runs amok with bilateral treaties that masquerade as free-trade agreements but which, in reality, have more impact through their free investment provisions. We now face the prospect of selling off not exactly our strategic assets but our valuable productive land to regional and global corporations. Not only does this surrender our sovereign control of New Zealand\u2019s economic destiny, it also drives up the price of land for purchase by Kiwi citizens and increases the pressure on our private sector debt. This in turn impacts on the Crown revenue potential and affects next year\u2019s Budget, and, through that, next year\u2019s supplementary estimates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EIn March during the 2008-09 financial review debate I spoke of the need for a new, alternative economic model for this country, and indeed for the global economy. This is known as the steady-state economy, based on the concept of a dynamic equilibrium. Unlike orthodox economics of the past 70 years, this model takes into account the natural resource base in the pre-productive process, and waste disposal in the post-productive process. If we do not do this, and this Government does not, if we retain the orthodox economic model, and this Government does, we shall find\u2014indeed, we are already finding\u2014that growth proves to be uneconomic, since it is not sustainable in the medium term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EAs I said in March, we have reached the stage where we must incorporate environmental indicators into our macroeconomic management in our national financial accounts. To that end I have produced a member\u2019s bill designed to assist us all in approaching this. My Public Finance (Sustainable Development Indicators) Amendment Bill will ensure that in fulfilling its macroeconomic obligations under the Public Finance Act, the Government will have regard to the sustainable development of the country. The bill aims to consolidate and amend the law governing the use of public financial resources to ensure that the economic management of New Zealand is undertaken consistently with the interests of the sustainable development of New Zealand over the long term. Specifically, the bill will obligate the Minister to report to the House, in the context of the Budget presentation, a series of sustainable development indicators. These indicators, which will remain in terms of physical rather than monetary measurements, are already being produced by the Government Statistician. I pay tribute to the quality of the work being produced by Statistics New Zealand, in particular the 2009 report measuring New Zealand\u2019s progress using a sustainable development approach. The bill will also have the Minister address the ecological footprint and the human development index as measurements of New Zealand\u2019s progress over the longer term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EI mention this bill because if adopted it will affect the financial direction of the Government in the next Budget. It therefore stands as a signal to the Government today that there are ways in which the financial direction of this country, both in terms of the May 2009 Budget and the June 2010 supplementary estimates, could have been improved, and stands as a signal that they can be improved in the future. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022 data-id=\u002247d7b7d29b23453f92c3f6d549ae4c8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247d7b7d29b23453f92c3f6d549ae4c8d\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E The Budget is now a month old. Frankly, the more one looks at its detail, the more inadequate it becomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EAfter 20 months in power, the Government has a number of obvious traits\u2014none of them particularly good. It intends to run the business of Government better than the previous Labour Government did\u2014hardly a hard task or an ambitious goal. It is clear that National no longer believes very strongly in what it declares to be its principles\u2014freedom, choice, individual responsibility, or limited Government. Its decision-making process is very clear. When faced with an issue that needs to be resolved, the first question it always asks is what the public will accept on this issue. There is no leadership; we are run by focus groups. The question the Government should be asking is what policy is in the best interest of the nation; then and only then should it ask the question of how to sell those policies to the public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EThe difference between the two approaches is hugely significant. Under National\u2019s current approach, we will never reverse Labour\u2019s terrible policies. We will never catch up with Australia, and the Prime Minister, John Key, will be in danger of going the same way that Kevin Rudd has gone. In the end, only quality policies bring real returns to the people of New Zealand. The second question\u2014asking what should be done in the best interest of New Zealand\u2014would mean that catching up with Australia was only a matter of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EWe can turn New Zealand\u2019s current problems, including lack of growth, into opportunities if we define clearly what we want to deliver to the people of New Zealand and how we intend to deliver it. The key issues facing this nation are the same that have faced this nation for 40 years\u2014health, education, welfare, unemployment, crime, housing, etc. For 70 years Governments have tried to run these areas of people\u2019s lives, with disastrous consequences. Public expenditure has expanded to over 50 percent of GDP, and as a result it has caused low productivity and an excessive strain on taxpayers. At the same time, the Government\u2019s management of people\u2019s lives has stripped them of the possibility of getting ahead. Despite increases in our nation\u2019s wealth, we see more people relying on the State for assistance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EOffering short-term answers to these problems will never solve them, nor will examining each of them in isolation work. The issues are fundamentally linked, and I believe that the people of New Zealand know it. The problems of poverty, lack of motivation, inadequate skills, alienation, and unemployment all reinforce one another. These problems create the conditions that lead to health problems, a lack of opportunity, and a lack of economic growth. These issues are central to any recovery in New Zealand, because they act negatively on rich and poor alike. They focus on the plight of the disadvantaged and the adverse impact that their situation has on the rest of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EThe only way of satisfying both sides of this equation is for New Zealanders to agree on some overriding objective. That objective would need to include the following element: an improvement in the living standards of all New Zealanders, particularly the disadvantaged. Such an objective would then allow any political party that wanted to, to integrate its thinking on growth, investment, health, education, welfare, jobs, equity, security, and social harmony. Such an objective also has the virtue of putting all New Zealanders, hopefully\u2014and, hopefully, also the political parties\u2014on the same page. We all want to help New Zealanders, especially the disadvantaged. We all share the same goal. Where we differ is over the means we adopt to help them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EThis is where we can have our arguments. ACT likes choice in education, health care, and welfare. For example, we like people to be free to choose which school they send their children to. National, Labour, the Greens, and the M\u0101ori Party favour compulsion. They say that people can send their children to the school of their choice only if they are rich enough to pay private school fees or to move into their preferred school zone. ACT likes competition, because it promotes efficiency, better use of resources, and higher incomes, while giving people choice. National, Labour, the Greens, and the M\u0101ori Party favour monopoly. They like to have monopolies in health, education, and the welfare system\u2014only one place to choose from and no incentive to improve efficiency. ACT likes self-reliance, whereby people are allowed to keep their own money through lower taxes or tax credits, which enables all New Zealanders to purchase their child\u2019s education, health care, or welfare insurance. National, Labour, the Greens, and the M\u0101ori Party prefer dependency. After the people of New Zealand have paid their taxes, they simply do not have enough money left over to be self-reliant, so they are forced to vote for the party that they believe offers them the best handout. ACT believes that people should be able to get ahead through hard work, while the rest of the political parties want to tax success hard in order to create dependency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EAlthough income is important to the disadvantaged, it is not enough to remedy their situation. Their deeper need, which I believe that only ACT offers, is to have the incentives and opportunity to make real advances for themselves through their own effort. By helping them to achieve independence and to contribute to society, we can transform their future and everyone else\u2019s with it. Disadvantaged people need access to education, health care, housing, and benefits that guard them against emergency, adversity, and disability. But forced education, where they learn nothing, life on a benefit, or Government-created jobs simply perpetuate their problems. Scope for constructive personal choice is basic to human dignity. The disadvantaged need the kind of help that puts people on their feet and able to make decisions for themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EThe social cost of very low productivity growth in New Zealand over a long period of time has damaged the security and well-being of people at every level of New Zealand society. It is about time we did something about it. We need to stop worshipping sacred cows that do not exist. We need to understand that without efficiency, improved equity, for example, is impossible to achieve. We need to understand that waste consumes resources that would otherwise have been available to improve equity levels throughout the community. Certainly, everyone involved in wasting resources\u2014and there is plenty of that\u2014collects a rent, dividend, or pay packet, but does so at the expense of the whole community, and we need to understand that. If we eliminate that waste, people, as well as money and physical resources, are forced to relocate in activities that produce a benefit for the community, but it is a nonsense to pretend that such a change to the status quo for them is a reduction in the overall levels of equity. The interest groups that make that argument are stating a case for gains to them at the expense of everyone else\u2019s well-being. I think it is time we examined the $3 billion of special privileges in the Budget that go largely to businesses. If we got rid of those $3 billion of handouts\u2014like film industry grants, etc.\u2014we could reduce taxation dramatically in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u0022841684f592ec458ba4c8f4c059cadffd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022841684f592ec458ba4c8f4c059cadffd\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call in this afternoon\u2019s debate on the Appropriation (2009/10 Supplementary Estimates) Bill and the Imprest Supply (First for 2010/11) Bill. It has certainly been an interesting debate to listen to this afternoon. \u201CWide ranging\u201D does not begin to cover the scope of what we have heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EAs a relatively new member in the House, I must say that it took me a little bit of time to get my head round some of the financial processes that we go through, year on year, in this House. It is worth clarifying for the benefit of anyone listening at home who is not familiar with the processes that this part of the financial programme is just about formally signing off spending that has already occurred in the 2009-10 year. That spending happened under Imprest Supply bills, and we now formally sign off on it because it was outside the votes in last year\u2019s Budget. The Finance and Expenditure Committee had the opportunity to look at the supplementary estimates in a little more detail. It was a very interesting experience and it was certainly a help in getting our heads round how the process worked. The major increases this year in the estimates were primarily in the finance portfolio, of about $1.8 billion; revenue, of about $900 million; and social development, of $475 million. Those were the big three.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EWhen we look at where that expenditure has occurred, it is interesting to note that all the big-ticket items are related to the global financial crisis and the uncertainty that it brought about. When we go through the briefings and break down some of those large numbers, we see that the big-ticket items are things like the guarantee and indemnity scheme, which was a reaction to the serious global financial situation that we found ourselves in. They are things like the massive increases in debt-servicing costs or the unexpected jumps in debt impairments and debt write-offs, both in the tax arena and in the social policy area. And, not surprisingly, there was a large cost for increased benefits, as we saw New Zealanders dealing with the fallout of the recession. I think it is entirely appropriate in this debate, albeit it is a wide-ranging one, that when we talk about the need to now sign off on that additional expenditure, we take a moment to look at where our economy has come from and where it is going. We have found ourselves in an incredibly fast-paced and changing environment, certainly since the National-led Government has been in office. That has been the largest contributing factor to the numbers we are looking at today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI will start by looking at exactly where our economy was and what its health status was. Given that we are having Men\u2019s Health Month, we should also have an economic health snapshot of where we are at. The economy in 2008, even before we went into the global financial crisis, was in a perilous state because of exactly the same sorts of imbalances that this whole House is now acknowledging exist. But let us not kid ourselves that these imbalances came about under the recession. The sorts of imbalances that this country and its economy are really struggling to grapple with existed long before any international crisis. The biggest one of those has been the failure of our productive sector since the turn of the millennium to grow and expand as it should have. Since 2000 we have had a productive sector in decline. That is something I have mentioned in this House on more than one occasion, and it is something I will keep mentioning, because if we do not address it and acknowledge in this House that we have to get our productive sector in a healthy position, then we will never create the sort of economy we need. It has been said here, and I think it was the Minister of Finance who said it, that it is very easy to say these things, very easy to stand up and pay lip service to wanting to build exports, to grow innovation, and to support business. I do not think any members in this House would be brave enough to stand up and admit they do not agree with any of that. But the difference is what actions this House is prepared to take to make that happen. They are cheap words. They are easy words. If someone is not prepared to break the eggs to make the omelette, then that person should not be making those sorts of claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe economy that the National Government dealt with when it picked up the reins in 2008 was one where the productive sector had been neglected, abused, and abandoned by its Government. We were seeing the consequences of that. We were seeing a steady decline in exports. We were seeing exporters struggling to stay afloat. We were seeing more and more mum and dad New Zealand businesses shutting down, not taking on staff, not making a profit, and, increasingly, heading overseas to what they perceived as greener pastures. There is no way that we will ever get our economy to a place where it can provide sustainable jobs, good incomes, and a standard of life to which we all aspire, unless we are prepared to be honest with ourselves and say that if we do not create an environment in which business can grow, thrive, and prosper, then it will be a case of the last one out please turn out the lights. This economy is doomed if we cannot get that right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThat is why this Government, when it came into office, had two immediate goals. The first goal was to deal with the recession as best as we could, and to make the impact on New Zealanders as little as it could be. We knew we could not avoid it. It was happening all across the world. But we could make sure that we maintained core entitlements to New Zealanders, which we have done. We could make sure that we delivered on our commitments to New Zealanders, which we have done. And we could make sure that we delivered the sort of platform for economic growth that we had promised New Zealand in the 2008 election campaign, and that New Zealanders had invested in when they voted for this National-led Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EIn the 2009 Budget and then in the most recent Budget, we are starting to see that programme roll out. I often describe this economy as a pretty slow-moving beast to turn round. In the words of the infamous Rachel Hunter: \u201CIt\u2019s not going to happen overnight, but it will happen.\u201D But we have to start by putting in place foundations for growth, and they are things like addressing tax and carrying out the biggest single reform of our tax system that we have seen for 25 years. Why are we doing that? Because it is one of the biggest incentives we can give to this economy. It is the biggest way that we can tell New Zealanders to work hard, get ahead, save more, and invest more, and their Government will back them. That is what tax reform is all about. It is not about more money to the Government; it is about incentivising the economy to be more productive and less consumption focused. That is how we will address the shortfall in personal savings, and that is how we will start to give business in this country the message that they can get ahead and that there is a future here. That is when we will see our best and our brightest returning home to base themselves in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI will make the point that when we talk about business, let us not think of it as some big ugly corporate on the stock exchange. The vast bulk of business in this country is small enterprises employing 10 or fewer staff. That is what we talk about when we talk about business. Do not buy into the lie that it is some faceless corporation. Supporting business is supporting the families and the people in our communities who get up every day and work very hard just to pay the bills, and that is what has been lacking. But with the sorts of tax incentives in this Budget and the sort of investment in infrastructure that will lay foundations for growth, we are putting New Zealand on the road to prosperity once more, and we are putting New Zealand into a space that will see economic growth delivered. In this Budget we are looking at growth projections averaging 3 percent for the next 3 years, and that is fantastic news. It will mean 170,000 new jobs, it will mean greater incomes for Kiwi families, and it is the sort of economic growth that will provide the outcomes that all New Zealanders want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EWhen we look at the infrastructure investment that this country was calling out for under the 9 years of Labour and that we are now delivering, we see that it removes some of those bottlenecks. It will see roading put in place. Roading projects like the Christchurch Southern Motorway, which my electorate has been calling for for 19 years, are now under way. I drove past it yesterday, and I saw the bulldozers rolling. It is a fabulous sight to see. We will see investment in broadband. I can tell members that in my communities in Selwyn it is the issue that my constituents raise with me most often. They cannot get broadband, and without broadband one cannot do business in a modern environment. So we can see that our investment in infrastructure straight away translates into setting conditions for economic growth and prosperity for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThat is what this Government is all about, that is what we have been delivering since 8 November 2008, and that is what we will continue to deliver. We know that that is what New Zealanders want. They want economic growth, they want safer communities, they want raised education standards, they want less bureaucracy, and they want a Government that has aspiration, that has hope for them, and that knows that we can aspire to more in this country. We are not tall poppy knockers on this side of the House. We do not knock anyone who puts his or her head above the parapet. We tell people that if they are prepared to work hard, we will back them. This Government will get in behind any New Zealander who wants to get ahead. It is not just hollow words from us. We do not just stand here and make speeches; we get out there and do it. I am very pleased to support this motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002225819aae2d524655bd4bc24374a532e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225819aae2d524655bd4bc24374a532e5\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me great pleasure to follow in the footsteps of that great speech from a very fine new member of this Parliament. She shows the new leadership that National has delivered to this country. I say \u201CWell done!\u201D to new members, like Amy Adams, who are delivering a very strong focus for National in the South Island. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWhen we look at the Budget and what is happening in the economy at the moment, we see that it is important to take a bit of a sideways step and look at what would have happened if National had not been here. If National had not been here, what would the case be for the New Zealand economy? Well, it would have been a continuation of the poor and misguided management of the previous Labour Government. It put our country into recession before the rest of the world had a financial crisis. It bought assets such as KiwiRail for a price beyond the value of those assets. It made promises at consecutive elections about buying the votes of middle New Zealand, without taking into account the long-term effect of those costs on our economy. That is the heritage we get from the previous Labour Government. It bought votes, it did not care about the future, and it banked on the rest of the country paying for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThere was a wake-up call. The wake-up call was the world recession. It came to all countries, and it was deep and dark. That wake-up call has been something this Government has had to grapple with. We have had to deal with not only those international concerns but also the mismanagement that set us up in a very difficult predicament. If Labour had been in Government, it would not have known what to do, because it was just taxing and spending to buy votes at elections. It had no plan, no direction, and no foresight for what it wanted to see as a strong economy going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EBut that would have left New Zealand in a very difficult position. New Zealand would have become the Greece of the South Pacific if Labour had been in charge. Labour members know that. They are sitting there and they know that they could not have dealt with that situation. They are looking across the Chamber and are asking themselves why they could not make those firm and right decisions that National is making now. The reason they could not is that they do not know. They have no policy, they have no direction, and they have no ability to make a direction happen for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders are justifiably proud and supportive of their Government, because they know that it is the best Government for these very difficult times. New Zealanders know that under the leadership of John Key they have somebody who is an international politician of repute and is providing vision and clarity to a country that has been long lacking in those attributes because of the previous leadership of the last 9 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe are very proud to be part of a Government that is setting out a Budget that takes a balanced approach to where we need to go. I say balanced in the sense that we realise we have certain commitments, albeit made by the previous Government, albeit made for the wrong reasons. We still have to deal with them, and we are dealing with them. We are also balanced in the sense that we are looking forward to what we need to do to build a stronger economy so that we send the right signals and incentives and we do not have policy or make spending decisions based just on winning elections. That is a difficult balance, especially at this time, but we have managed to do that. We have done it in a slow but sure and direct manner. We have done it by making decisions that people can understand and live with. At the same time, we are sending the right signals and incentives to New Zealanders and the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbbdbff4a6d545a0b50ff995e35b74d5\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s this rubbish about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a75cd491fa54d29985f8e98ad921c07\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: That Labour member has just come into the Chamber, and he would have no idea what the economy requires. He did not even make a Budget bid when he was a Minister, so I do not see how he could be any help in making the economy work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f55c8bca4109464f958038b7cf9e403d\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That is not true. I made several bids when I was a Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8aed6973300424ea335634a23a43047\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order; that is a debating point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feea83af29ee4f4193729de2e3b4e785\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: If that member made several bids, we all missed them. That member would not even have known if he had made a bid, anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWhen we look at what we need to do for New Zealand going forward, we see that we need to send the right signals and incentives\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218f729b0eab4429a9b5c09f449fed2bf\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: What about the 400 people who have lost their jobs in Waipukurau in the Hawke\u2019s Bay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206742ba450314d128cdb3707090b8f74\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: That Labour member is going on about 400 people who have lost their jobs, as he is all about creating fear. I ask him about the 40,000 who would have lost their jobs if Labour had remained in Government. That is the detail that those members on that side of the Chamber need to understand. We will not look at it like that. We will look at what we need to do for this country going forward and what we need to do to be competitive in the world economy. We need to have our people getting a decent education, a decent job, and the rewards for working hard and making the right choices. Those are the factors that will lead to a strong country and a strong economy. Our future is in our people. We back them and we back their ability to succeed. We are sitting in what will be the best part of the world for the next 50 years. New Zealand is in the right place at the right time to take advantage of the world recovery, especially the recovery in this part of the Asia-Pacific region. But we need to give our people the tools to take advantage of it, and that is where we are going. We will send the right signals and incentives so that young New Zealanders stay in this country and build a future in this country. They may go overseas to get experience, but they will come back to make New Zealand their home and make this the strongest country we can be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThat is the future for New Zealand. That is where we are going. We have set the tax system so that people see those signals and incentives, and that is what the Budget was about. It was not about carrying on the past injustices of trying to make money out of property. The previous Labour Government continually abused that, and it asked why the Reserve Bank was putting up interest rates and kept blaming other people when it had 9 years to deal with that economic distortion. It did not have the guts to make the calls, but National has had the guts to make those calls. We have gone out there and given young people the direction they need. Young people want to get the best possible education they can and the best possible job they can. They want to make the most money they can, so they can have the goods and services they desire for themselves, their families, and their communities going forward. That community aspect is something we are building through New Zealand. New Zealanders are understanding that they have the opportunities that other countries have. We will not be looking across the ditch or anywhere else and saying that we cannot achieve those things. We believe in the future of this country. We are giving the New Zealand people the tools to take advantage of that future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThat is quite a different approach from what Labour would have done. Labour would have looked across the ditch, and it would have been abusive and jealous. Labour would have said that New Zealanders cannot do that and it is beyond us, and that we should accept what we have because this is as good as it gets. Labour would have redirected the money and told us that this was as good as we would ever get. That is the mentality that Labour wanted to build in New Zealand. Well, we want to see an ambitious and successful New Zealand, where that is not the mentality. We want a mentality such that we have the option of going out there and achieving our goals, and that New Zealanders can see that they can prosper and succeed on the international stage and they can succeed at home, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThat is the nature of the directional change that New Zealand has encountered since having a National Government. John Key is inspirational in that regard. As a leader, he emphasises and epitomises what New Zealanders can and will achieve. That is what the public of New Zealand like. They like to see that we can do these things. They like to see somebody who listens and makes decisions. They like to see a Government that makes the right decisions for people, based on the right commercial realities, not decisions based on winning votes at election time and on not paying for those things until somebody else has to in the future. That is the point of difference. That is why this Government is so strong and successful. We commend these bills to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u00225aa953de09724a63947b42bcdbc177a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225aa953de09724a63947b42bcdbc177a0\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in the supplementary estimates debate. I will come to the previous member\u2019s speech in a moment. This Budget and the supplementary estimates represent a Budget in search of a purpose. If this Budget and these supplementary estimates were an essay, I would probably give it a C-. I would give it a C- because it fills out the form, it follows the form, and it is written by somebody who knows how to write an essay, but it is completely lacking in coherence, direction, plan, or in any kind of insight or foresight. It certainly lacks flair. It is pedestrian at best and it is damning for the nation at worst. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThis is not an adequate Budget. This is the Government\u2019s second Budget, and it is lacking in any proactive responses to the economic crisis. That group of people opposite know that this is not a Budget that will repair anything that is striking at the heart of New Zealand\u2019s growth and prosperity. It lacks any proactive response to the economic crisis, to the global recession, or to unemployment in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThere are problems with a society that drifts further and further apart internally, where inequality is exacerbated and not addressed, and where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Where those gaps increase and are not closed, there are problems of social dissonance that begin to match the problems of economic difference. That is well catalogued by people cleverer than me, and that is something that this Government seems not to have taken into account at any stage in the development and the drafting of this Budget. Under this Budget, the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. In a few years it will be entirely obvious that the roots of the social dissonance that will be created by the increasing gap between the rich and poor should be sheeted home to this Budget. Instead, the panacea offered in these appropriations is the same mantra that the National Party has been offering forever\u2014tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts. That is in this term, and it will be followed by asset sales in the next term, if the Government is given a chance to do that. Let us hope the 80 percent of people in New Zealand who are clearly opposed to the sale of State assets will remember when it comes to the ballot box next year that this Government will sell State assets as quickly as it possibly can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe Government has only two prongs to its economic development programme in the Budget: one is tax cuts, and the other is asset sales\u2014not now, because the public are not quite ready for it, but we will soften them up for asset sales. The Government will do tax cuts now and asset sales later. But those tax cuts are a swindle. Inflation of nearly 6 percent\u2014the 5.9 percent that Treasury has predicted\u2014will gobble up any dollars that people on low and middle incomes will receive from tax cuts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe tax cuts are also unfair. One-third of the tax cuts goes to the top 5 percent of earners, and 15 percent goes to 1 percent of the top earners. That is grossly distortionary, and it represents an impoverished, old-fashioned, and backward way of thinking, which says that if we give the rich more, wealth will trickle down eventually to reach those who are less well off. Well, since it was first posited in the 1970s, that has never worked as a way of maintaining social services, improving opportunity, and closing gaps between the haves and have-nots, and it will not work this time either. Those on the average income will get something in the order of $15 net a week, after the GST increase. John Key will get $218 net a week after these tax cuts. People on the minimum wage will get something in the order of $3, and with that they will have to accommodate and absorb increases in power prices, accident compensation levies, and supermarket prices because of the increase in GST. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EAlthough the National Party\u2019s hoardings up and down the country in 2008 promised it, there is no bright prospect for the future for most families. In the area where I live in Nelson, 76 percent of people have an income of less than $40,000. That means three-quarters of the people in Nelson who have an income of one kind or another earn less than $40,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe thing that really disturbs me, even more than the impoverished, old-fashioned, antiquated, outmoded, and much-maligned orthodoxy that lies behind this Budget, is the lack of a plan for growth. This Budget represents a series of lost opportunities. I have said it is old thinking. There is no imagination. There are no ideas, in fact, about how to move the economy forward. What is required is not just the step change that the Prime Minister keeps talking about. A step change is not adequate. A quantum leap is required in our approach to primary production and the things that we do so well. Yet on the commodities market we remain entirely vulnerable to the exchange rate, and to low margins on commodity prices going out into international markets. Where is the investment in skills training and in tertiary education that is required in order to make this economy become a smart economy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EOf course, we are good at producing first-class, top-rate primary produce. I see that every day in the region where I live in Nelson. I say to members opposite that what I have also seen recently in Nelson are job cuts in fisheries, forestry, and, most recently, in engineering. Those job cuts are real; they are about real families losing jobs. We have a situation in Nelson where both earners in a family are out of a job for the first time in their lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EWhere is the imagination, where is the new policy, and where is the quantum leap in this Budget that will get us back into gear? One of the previous speakers talked about the fact that a lot of our businesses are small businesses, and that is true, but she neglected to identify the impact of the increase in GST on small businesses. She ought to get around more and talk to small-business owners about how they are feeling about the increase in GST, and how the pressure is on them to absorb it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThere are no new ideas in this Budget. It is impoverished thinking. It is not adequate for the times, and it will not move us one jot towards the kind of smart economy we require. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022219f052bf0bf42a3bdb87fb0ac0acf7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022219f052bf0bf42a3bdb87fb0ac0acf7c\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E It is my privilege to stand to speak on the Appropriation (2009/10 Supplementary Estimates) Bill and the Imprest Supply (First for 2010/11) Bill. Many people have spoken already about what this Budget provides. It provides opportunity. It provides jobs\u2014170,000 over the next few years. But the context in which this Budget was produced was an economy that, under the previous Labour Government, was in a state of disrepair. It was an economy that was contracting in November 2008, that had had 4 consecutive years of export decline, and where the biggest show in town was Government departments. It was an economy that was overtaxed, and that crowded out investment in productive resources. So the economy that we inherited as a Government was in a state of disrepair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EBudget 2009 took some steps to address the problems of that economy, to move it along the road to recovery, and to rebalance it to improve economic growth and to move our focus towards exports and savings. The current forecast for New Zealand\u2019s net external debt and liabilities is about $250 billion by 2014. Yes, it is $250 billion, or quarter of a trillion dollars, and that is astonishing. The Government finances face similar challenges, and we are spending more than we earn. Any householder knows that when we spend more than we earn, we must necessarily borrow, and some, like those across the Chamber, steal. The National Government will not steal. We are reducing our borrowing. We have produced a Budget in 2010 that will progress us towards surpluses sooner. The bottom line, as I have already stated, is to rebalance this lopsided economy towards productive business, productive investment, and exports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003ESo what does Budget 2010 do? First, it puts economic growth at the front of our agenda. Its overriding aim is to tilt the economy towards savings, investments, and exports. Secondly, it puts together the most comprehensive tax reform that this country has seen for 25 years, and that reform is about making the tax system fairer and promoting faster economic growth. Thirdly, it is about the fiscal outlook. Both our Crown debt and Budget deficits now are looking better than they did 12 months ago and, certainly, better than they did 12 months prior to Budget 2009. Why is that important? I put it to members that if debt spirals out of control as it has done in other countries, particularly European countries and the United States, it crowds out investment in jobs and investment in opportunities. It also could lead to a downgrade in our credit rating, and increased borrowing saddles future generations with the spending of today. Finally, debt impacts businesses; it impacts businesses to the extent that the cost of borrowing increases, debt repayments increase, and, as a Government, we are not able to spend on areas where it is required, like health, education, and infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EFinally, this Budget is about reprioritising our spending and allocating new spending of $1.1 billion. We have moved that new spending to front-line public services. We have more police, nurses, doctors, and services that actually serve our communities, rather than more bureaucrats in Wellington. The number of them expanded under the last Labour Government. It is about quality spending on infrastructure, and we have put money into ultra-fast broadband and roads. I am pleased to see that State Highway 20, which goes through my electorate of Maungakiekie, is 6 months ahead of schedule, to budget, and to specification. Yes, we are building the roads of tomorrow. The spending on infrastructure also includes spending on rail. We all know that this Government inherited a trainset from the last Government. It was a bad investment. That Government overspent on the purchase price for KiwiRail. But the Budget is about delivering a network, and I am pleased that the Onehunga rail station, in my electorate, is about to be opened later this year. That is about investment, that is about decision making, and that is about making the right investments at the right time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe Budget is about economic growth, and our programme now is forecast to deliver real GDP growth of 3.2 percent in the year ending March 2011. That 3.2 percent growth compares favourably with the last Government\u2019s record. In Labour\u2019s 9 years there was less than 1 percent year-on-year growth. In the most favourable economic conditions it achieved less than 1 percent year-on-year growth. That is appalling. As I travel through my electorate of Maungakiekie, from the factories in Penrose to Mount Wellington and right through to Onehunga, the word out there is that confidence is up; confidence in this Government is up. Out in the factories of Onehunga and Penrose people are glad that we are addressing some of the harsh policies of the last Labour Government. They are pretty happy about the 90-day probation legislation in that they are able to hire people on probation. They are happy about the tax cuts. There are not just personal tax cuts but business tax cuts. That matter has not been mentioned in this House with any degree of frequency. We can be proud of the 28c company tax rate. Our tax rates are comparable with those of other countries. We now have one of the lowest tax regimes in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe Budget is about preparing for future growth. We have invested in infrastructure, but, as well as that, one of the key investments is in education. We are prioritising early childhood education. We are prioritising it especially in those communities that do not access early childhood education. I refer to the Pacific communities, where 85 percent of children are currently accessing early childhood education, and we would like to see that number rise to the mainstream percentages of mid-to-high 90s. It is a Budget that I support and it is a Budget that has been well received by New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022e17e53eee851439c81030a549e82b0bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e17e53eee851439c81030a549e82b0bb\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I acknowledge the speech from the previous speaker, who is an enthusiastic new member. It is a shame he did not stick to the facts; it would have made a bit of difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI refer to a sobering IMF report that has just been done on the New Zealand economy. It states that New Zealand \u201Cstands out as having one of the lowest saving rates and one of the largest net foreign liabilities positions of any advanced country.\u201D But the National Government\u2019s last Budget cut all efforts in terms of savings. KiwiSaver and contributions to the superannuation fund were cut. What, then, did the Government do this year? We have heard some pearls of wisdom in the House today. Mr English said that we need to create jobs in the export sector and that we need a growing tradable sector. I agree with those statements. However, Roger Douglas from ACT said that we need to reduce taxation dramatically in this country. Then we heard Mr Dunne say that we need liberating policies. Well, if these three parties work together as a Government, we would think that there would be some cohesion and logical outcome from all of those statements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ESo I ask what the Budget did to promote those statements, if indeed those members believe them. At the select committee one of the senior Ministers, Gerry Brownlee, was asked what growth targets the Government has. He could not admit in the select committee to any growth targets, because the Government does not have any. I go back to those statements made in the House just today. What did the Budget do for taxation? If we are to believe that lower taxes drive a better economy\u2014perhaps through Mr Dunne\u2019s liberating policies\u2014maybe he believes that the flat tax, like a flat earth, is the nirvana that we should all seek, or that no tax delivers a perfect world. Well, it does not; we know that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ELet us go back to the naive belief that lower taxes deliver a better economy. In fact, tax went up for every single New Zealander in the last Budget. GST will go up to 15 percent. So every single item we buy will cost more, because of increased taxation. There were cuts made to taxation\u2014cuts that delivered one-third of the total benefits to 5 percent of the taxpayers in this country. Those cuts were unfair. If we go through and look at the cuts, we see that those on the lower end earning zero to $14,000 received a 2 percent cut in taxation; moving up, those earning $48,000 to $70,000 get a 3 percent cut; and those on the highest levels, over $70,000, get a 5 percent cut. It was simply unfair, unethical, and, in my view, immoral. So there were tax cuts for a small number of people, but those people at the bottom end who got less will have any benefits of that gobbled up through increased GST, electricity costs going up, and inflation, which the Budget admitted would be at 5.9 percent by July of next year. That will cripple many, many people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EMr Dunne was wrong. There were no liberating policies in the last Budget. In fact, tax did not go down, as Sir Roger Douglas would demand; it went up for the vast majority of New Zealanders. If we were to believe that lower taxes delivered better outcomes, why are Finland and Denmark, European countries that have strong sustainable growth, high incomes, good investment in research and development, better off than the low-tax countries, which include New Zealand? The IMF said that we are not as great as that, looking forward. We have some serious issues around savings and net debt. We are a so-called low-tax country. The Budget did not deliver a more sustainable future for New Zealand; it taxed the lower-income New Zealanders more and it cut taxes for people at the higher end. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ELet us look at the tradable sector. If we are to believe Bill English\u2014and I do agree with him\u2014that we need to drive growth in the tradable sector, we need to ask what the Budget did for the export sector. Well, I think it is widely acknowledged that we need more investment in research and development. What happened? We had a commitment of $700 million for research and development in the tradable sector, but the Government swiped the money and came back with a Primary Growth Partnership proposal, which did nothing for 18 months. There was absolutely nothing for 18 months\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288fe4a72126544f392da83fd4039003a\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Not one dollar?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228557e1eba20147c4a85fbf50f1b2467e\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: That is right, there was not one dollar out of the Primary Growth Partnership for 18 months. Three grants have just been made. What happened was that we had research and development tax credits in place. Every single business in this country could claim tax credits for research and development. The National Government wiped them out. It took them away. It has implemented a research and development grants programme. That is as bureaucratic as one can possibly get. The party that claimed to be stomping on bureaucracy replaced tax credits, tax cuts for research and development, with a bureaucracy that delivers, if one is lucky, some grants for research and development. That is not the way to drive forward this economy for the export sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EQuite recently, Mr Bollard increased the official cash rate. He put it up by 0.25 percent. That will do more to harm the tradable sector in the medium term than any benefit, any policy, that the National Government passed through the Budget. We will see, and already are seeing, the value of the dollar climb\u2014because we have increased interest rates they flow across the board, and we are seeing the dollar climb. The export sector will get punished once again. I acknowledge the work that is going into the monetary policy reform that we will put on the table through Mr Cunliffe and Mr Parker. There is a lot of good work going on. We know that the export sector cannot continue to be battered around by a fluctuating dollar and by interest rates rising\u2014and they will rise, as they did in the 1990s under the National Government\u2014because the export sector that Bill English said we need to grow will be hammered as we move forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EAnother area where the Government could have assisted the export sector was with depreciation allowances. The Government eliminated depreciation incentives for new planting equipment. It took them away. If ever there was a way of increasing productivity, it is to encourage businesses to invest in new technology and new plant, but the Government took away that incentive. In fact, one could say that it created a perverse incentive, because it lowered the company tax rate. We are likely to see businesses that have the option of either taking out money through dividends or reinvesting back into higher levels of productivity take that money out because they pay less tax on it now. That is a bizarre policy for a Government that says it is encouraging the tradable sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe next area that we need to invest in is infrastructure. What did the Government do in this area? It shrunk the money going into health to a point where the rural areas are now suffering cuts in home care and cuts to age-care facilities\u2014threats to the services that support the people who drive this export economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI will talk about education. I quote from a principal of a school: \u201CIn short, I feel that the 2010 Budget will do absolutely nothing to assist\u201D\u2014and I take out the name of the high school\u2014\u201Cand this is particularly irksome when the Prime Minister has stated that \u2018One of the Government\u2019s top priorities is ensuring that a greater proportion of education funding goes to frontline services in our schools and less into bureaucracy.\u2019 \u2026 I can say categorically that it won\u2019t.\u201D That is from a principal of a high school in a rural area. He knows the truth. The Government has refused to properly fund education through this Budget, which might support people who live in rural areas and who produce the export income. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIn communication we committed $48 million. What has the Government done? It has said it will take a levy off all other broadband users and put the money back into the $300 million fund for rural broadband. That is compared with the $1.5 billion the Government is spending in the cities. That will not help the tradable sector. Neither will roading, where the Government has chopped money from provincial roads that are in the control of councils to put into projects around the cities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2bfb6280bf94e0dbb98e974c650bec9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2bfb6280bf94e0dbb98e974c650bec9\u0022\u003EAARON GILMORE (National):\u003C/span\u003E What people out there in the House just heard was actually voodoo. It was voodoo that Labour put forward in its belief that it has some bizarre idea of how to run the economy. It is actually economic illiteracy. What we see and hear from the Opposition is no understanding of basic economic principles. It is a bit like Groundhog Day; every time I stand here to talk about our Budget, I feel like I am saying the same thing again, and again, and again. Those members do not seem to get the fact that we inherited an economy that was in recession, year after year. Labour does not seem to understand that. Its members cannot read, cannot write, or are just too damn stupid to be able to get there, I believe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EI believe that this is a good Budget. In fact, I think it is a great Budget. In time we will see some wonderful things. Up in the public gallery this afternoon a group of young people were standing there listening to speeches from this side of the House and that side of the House. They loved it, because this Government will reduce the debt they will inherit. Those people over there would rather borrow an additional $5 billion or $6 billion a year that young people in New Zealand, like my young children, would have to pay back in the future. Labour is on a bit of a sideshow. It does not really seem to care about future generations. All its members want to do is to borrow some more money and spend it on their little toy projects. They do not seem to care about some of the issues about getting the incentives right for New Zealand, getting the ability to put in place the tax structures that allow people to invest, to save, and to grow the economy. Every 1 percent increase in economic growth is worth $3 billion to our economy by 2014. That is $3 billion that we can spend on things if we have that money. Maybe it is an idea to have a discussion about that, but it is absolute economic voodoo, and illiteracy, to talk about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df37dd41339842479e6933043acf5b68\u0022\u003EHon Dr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s stupidity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b85ae0972b004a05a7322e93f9a37ce1\u0022\u003EAARON GILMORE\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014and stupidity, Mr Mapp. It is absolute lunacy to be in a position to say \u201CLet us spend money we do not have yet, on things that do not work.\u201D Labour members are so focused on other things that are unrelated to the economy. They are focused on sideshows. They are not focused on the economy, they are not worried about economic growth, and they are not worried about interest rates. Every 1 percent increase in interest rates costs the taxpayer an additional half-a-billion dollars\u2014$500 million. That is another $500 million that we have to borrow. Every dollar we borrow increases the risk of interest rates going up. We will still be borrowing about $10 billion this year, and that is not good enough. But we had a Budget put in place that allows us to be brought back to surplus by 2016. That is years and years earlier than the Budgets the Labour Government put forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EWe had a momentous moment a couple of weeks ago, but Labour members did not mention it, at all. You see, we had a thing called a current account surplus. When I was at university studying economics, people talked about what a current account surplus was. The important thing about a current account surplus is that it is when New Zealand is in surplus, when it is paying its way in the world. A couple of weeks ago we had the first current account surplus for one quarter since 2002. Do members know what was driving that? It was growth in exports. It was changes in the way people were using their money, and changes in incentives and in how the Government was spending its money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EWe have heard again from members on the other side, voodoo, stupidity, and illiteracy about jobs and growth. Well, if the Government has to borrow money to employ somebody, that is actually wasteful. That is not a real job. In fact, the people in those jobs do not want those jobs, either. But I can tell members what real jobs are. In my part of northern Christchurch, off the coast there, there is soon to be one of the largest mussel farms in New Zealand. The previous Labour Government was completely against aquaculture. But aquaculture has the potential to make\u2014I do not know\u2014a billion dollars extra, or something in that order of that magnitude. That one mussel farm will employ approximately 200 people from my wider community. That is a wonderful thing for our local people. That is a great step forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker from over there talked about issues of research and development. We are very fortunate to have today in the House the Minister of Research, Science and Technology, the Hon Dr Wayne Mapp, and I will talk about some of the initiatives that have been put forward, and that are happening this year and beyond, in science. We have the ability in New Zealand to reposition real money into science, the ability to put in place about $300 million, which will be invested in real outcomes for real people to get real growth. I think that is really, really good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EWe have seen some bizarre behaviour from Opposition members over there in the last few days, and we have seen that reflected in the polls. I am a bit concerned now about the people sitting over there in the Chamber, because in the polls that came out only a day or so ago, Labour would lose eight or nine MPs. The five members of the Opposition who are sitting over there would be very, very worried about that\u2014I would be if I were they\u2014and about the way they are going. Maybe they should think about that when people are talking about some of the issues to do with the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EIt is exports that will grow our economy, and it is lower taxes. It is not about whether we put more money into buying a new machine, or about depreciation; it is about the bottom line that exists in the cash flow of a business. The decrease in taxes actually gives companies choices. It gives them choices about whether they want to invest in training, because the most valuable thing we have in New Zealand is our people. It is not our machines\u2014anybody can buy a machine\u2014it is the smartness of our people. If a company has less money to spend on people, and spends it on machines because the tax structure says that that is the way to go, then that is not the right way to go. But lower tax rates give companies the incentives to invest in people\u2019s brains. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EThat is the major advantage New Zealand has in the world. We are a small country; we will never have the biggest, flashest machines in the world, but we can have the smartest people. A lowering of company tax rates encourages the incentives for that. The lowering of personal tax rates gives incentive to workers to say that they want to work an extra shift. They will want to work extra shifts because that will give them a bit more money in their back pockets. This Budget\u2014and I will say it time and time again\u2014puts in a place a system where workers, in families with two children, earning $50,000 a year, will pay no tax, and I think that is a great thing. It is a great thing, because those people will be better off in New Zealand than they will be in Australia. I think it is a good thing\u2014despite any changes that may occur in a tax switching\u2014because those people will still be better off in New Zealand than in Australia. That is what we have seen happen. We have seen migration results come through, since National has been in Government, where planeloads of people have come back to New Zealand and have not gone to Australia\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a42931b628f94c3a863e83c4d6664c9d\u0022\u003EDr Rajen Prasad\u003C/span\u003E: Planeloads?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d86452d58654d5f89628556199c6bb1\u0022\u003EAARON GILMORE\u003C/span\u003E: Planeloads of people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228779a7ba8bea4f28afc6ebe8777ef857\u0022\u003EDr Ashraf Choudhary\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re going down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257dc7bfaff704d88b870c45dfb88f843\u0022\u003EAARON GILMORE\u003C/span\u003E: We have had net migration. I say to that member over there that if he would learn to read a graph he would understand that that is what happens at this time of year. It is the middle of winter. He should look at the numbers. I encourage him to go to a few websites and understand that. We have put in place some wonderful things in relation to asset management. The member from Hamilton East, along the benches there, talked earlier about some of the great infrastructure projects\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd5c93f839e84a77b89597f95559b7f9\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: The Waikato Expressway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1ec63041cf14109a86543a10d210e14\u0022\u003EAARON GILMORE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the Waikato Expressway, which he likes to keep talking about\u2014but in my part of town in Christchurch there is a place where we have a wonderful new motorway. We have broadband initiatives going into place. We have had our northern motorway put on an agenda of projects after being delayed for years and years. We are using our assets in a smarter way, and I think that that is a good thing. We are looking at turning round and investing large amounts of money in our rail network because that is needed, despite the fact that the previous Government spent a huge amount of money and had a lot of waste. I do not think that that made a lot of sense. We have spent large amounts of money trying to sort out issues we have seen in terms of switching\u2014efficiency in the State sector. That is a good thing. You see, most bureaucrats will turn round and think they might not have been productive, but if money is at least spent on them and on the productive sector, that is a wonderful thing. If only we could continue to have a current account surplus\u2014quarter, on quarter, on quarter\u2014then we would be paying our way in the world; and we had the first ever current account surplus in 8 years. I am proud to be part of a Government that saw that happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EWe have an ability over the next few years to see some wonderful things occur. We have the ability to see growth, and to see our performance improve. Since the Budget appeared, about 5 weeks ago on 20 May, we have seen amazing improvements. We have seen an improvement in export prices. Those dairy farmers out there are looking at receiving $7 a kilo for their milksolids. That is a good thing. We are seeing improvements in growth in orders coming back to our manufacturing sector. I spent a number of years working in the export manufacturing sector, and I can tell members that it is a tough business\u2014it is a tough business selling things from New Zealand to the Chinese, to the Indians, and to everyone else around the world. But our smart exporters can do it if they get the right Government policies, and our Government is putting in place those policies. We have, in John Key and Bill English, a pair of economic leaders who are putting in place an economy that will grow, and that will see a future for my children and my grandchildren to stay here for. I think that is a good thing. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022 data-id=\u002211c8f2914a404bc697f5da224176d15b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211c8f2914a404bc697f5da224176d15b\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I acknowledge that wonderful warm welcome and smile that Mr Deputy Speaker has just given me; I wish I could return the same to Mr Gilmore, who has just spoken. I ask Mr Gilmore to remember that he is here because of only 39 votes, and when there is any downturn in the votes for that party he should remember that he will be the first to go. Mr Gilmore should remember that. Mr Gilmore plays with figures a lot, but perhaps the one figure he should remember is 39. There are only 39 steps\u2014perhaps he should read the book\u2014he should look at that, and put it anywhere he likes or next to his bed to remind himself about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EAlthough Mr Gilmore talks about voodoo, I think the voodoo is within him. I wonder what it is about the argument that we on this side are putting forward so strongly that he does not get. I wonder what he would say to those people who cannot afford a decent life for themselves. I wonder what Mr Gilmore would say to those who simply want a decent life for their children, to those who want good early childhood education for their children, to those who want access to good primary health care, and to those who want a decent job. Do members know what Mr Gilmore would say? He would say to wait for the good times\u2014wait for the economy to improve; wait till the rich have really become rich\u2014and then that party will do something, because he definitely believes in the trickle-down effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EMr Gilmore is one of those people who just do not get the importance of balanced development, and balanced development will never occur unless both economic development and social development are brought together. Social development is about our people. It is about looking after our citizens, especially the most vulnerable. Perhaps it is also about reducing the gaps between the haves and the have-nots. But for that member it is all about exports and it is not about people, at all. It is just about figures and dollars, but it is not about people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EIn a similar way, when Craig Foss was speaking it was interesting to hear how he had forgotten about the amount of resources his party is currently spending on trawling through the past. He was lecturing members on this side of the House\u2014when Trevor Mallard was debating very, very aggressively, perhaps, an issue that was of concern to him, and simply bringing that to the attention of this House\u2014that we should not bring up the past. Mr Foss got very angry about that, and he said that we should not do that. But members on that side of the House trawled through the archives to bring to their Prime Minister quotes from the deep past, so that they may read them and remind us of what some members of the House might have said 10 or 15 years ago. If the member lives in a glasshouse he should not throw stones. Intense scrutiny might be something that that side of the House does not like, but they should get used to it because that is what they will get from this side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EPerhaps more important, the problems of Budget 2009 have not been addressed by Budget 2010. We can ask a number of questions: did the jobs the Government promised in 2009 materialise? Did they? Where are they? Has the number of jobs gone up? The Government promised a cycleway. Did that materialise? How many jobs has that created? Well, not many. The Government promised that unemployment would be halted. Has it been halted? It has not. Has our savings record improved in this country? Have our savings increased? No, they have not. Did the vulnerable get the kind of assistance that they deserve in the shift of resources? No, they did not. Instead, the Government shifted resources from the poor to the rich, from low and middle income earners to high-income earners. The Government has had two cracks at this\u2014in the 2009 Budget and again in the 2010 Budget\u2014and the Government is borrowing to fund it. It is borrowing at a rate of knots\u2014hundreds of millions of dollars are being borrowed to fund this particular shift. Where is the sense in that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EDay in and day out the Government uses the mantra that for 9 years Labour did nothing. If only the Government members were intellectually honest, they would interrogate the kinds of advances the Government of the last 9 years brought to this country. The Labour Government did pay off debt, it did save money, and it did increase our savings record. It did put money aside for our national superannuation scheme, for KiwiSaver, etc. Those members opposite might expected to be be fair about it, but, no, they are not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003ELet us look more intensively at the Government\u2019s programme at the moment. The point I want to make is that a country\u2019s Budget is really a moral document. It expresses the values and philosophies, and morality, if you like, of the Government that proposes it. One can look at a Budget and find signs of a Government\u2019s particular morality, and I want to look at the Budget from that perspective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003ELet us look at the tax cuts. The mantra at the moment is that everybody benefits, but they do not. It is absolutely not true. If everybody benefits then why is the Government not able to take a typical family or a range of typical families and actually show us in real terms the effects of this Budget on them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251d87e8840174c578e2fb0d95431c278\u0022\u003EHon Dr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: We did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbeac83fa155462796366a1609fb677d\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps Mr Mapp might like to explain some of what I am going to tell him in a minute. If one is taking the example of GST and comparing that against the decrease in taxation, then that is one point. But I say to Mr Mapp that it is intellectually dishonest to disregard all the other increases that have already occurred and will continue to occur as a result of the Government\u2019s tax programme. It is intellectually dishonest, and the member, as a former professor at a university, would accept that, as I would. It is simply intellectually dishonest to do that. When we factor in the increase in GST, we see that it takes money off people. Then we go a little further and look at inflation. The Government\u2019s own figures show that inflation will be significant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022734a0f0311054c1c9a74fedac2f464f2\u0022\u003EHon Dr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Inflation is covered by wage increases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7a4aaf2ee7b41488406e21984c1ed23\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I say to Mr Mapp that the figures do not tally. The increase in wages will give an average worker $2 per week. That is what the effective increase in wages will be. It is intellectually dishonest not to add the extra accident compensation costs\u2014it is unfair to do that. Also, if we take a typical family with children, we see the extra early childhood education costs. If we add all those costs we can see that the average wage earner is not well off, so it is intellectually dishonest to say that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe other point the Government makes is that it will create all these jobs. Well, the full tax package will create 10,000 jobs, a mere 6 percent of the 174,000 that were promised. I ask the member to consider what Mr Muldoon said when Think Big was put forward, in the same way that the member\u2019s Government is putting forward its idea. Mr Muldoon was going to create 420,000 jobs. What did he create? He created barely 10 percent of that. He brought the country to its knees. We have seen the same kind of intellectual dishonesty from successive National Governments, and this is another one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003ELet us consider the promises about not selling State assets. How can we trust that side of the House? The Government has said it will not sell State assets. It should read the polls. The country does not want asset sales. Now the Government is playing with words and saying it will not sell State assets during this term\u2014certainly not KiwiSaver. The Government has tested the water. Mr English tested the water and heard very clearly that this country does not want sales of State assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003ELet us look at the way in which members on that side of the House talk about health. Mr Ryall gets up in the House week in and week out and tells us that there has been an increase in health spending in 2009 and 2010. In fact, there has been a decrease, and $186 million has been stripped from low-priority spending. Who are the people who experience that? It is the people with mental health issues. The district health boards have had a major reduction in funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u002240f8ebca8f3641feac466e1d694be29a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240f8ebca8f3641feac466e1d694be29a\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to take a call tonight in this debate. I cannot start this speech without recognising the All Whites and what they achieved this week, and I recognise Ricki Herbert and what he has achieved as well. It is about New Zealand standing out from the crowd. When we look at the All Whites and try to analyse why they have done so well over the last 12 months, we see that their success started with Bahrain. It started with the Phoenix. It started with the investment that Wellington made in New Zealand Football. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EIf we look at that All Whites team, as my children and I did at 2 a.m., in the early hours of the morning, and reflect back on how they did it, what do we reflect back on? Do we look at the outstanding individuals? Do we look at the leader? Do we look at Ricki Herbert and say the team was well managed? Do we look at the captain and say he provided inspiration? Or do we look at the team? And do we say that, as a team, they all performed? Without the striker, they cannot get the goals. Without the goalie, they cannot stop the goals. So what actually made this team so successful? What made the All Whites stand out on the night? What made those New Zealanders stand out? When we look at that, what do we say? We say it has to be the team\u2014it is the team that got them over the line. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EWe hear many people saying they did not even win\u2014the score was one all. But in our eyes they are the greatest winners, because in our eyes they did not have the odds with them. The odds were against them. They should never have beaten that team\u2014and they did not; we drew. But a draw for us was extremely successful. A draw for us was aspirational for a sport in which we have never before performed at this level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EWhen we look at the All Whites and look at New Zealanders, we think about New Zealanders being outstanding people and an outstanding country. Why is New Zealand an outstanding country and why do we punch above our weight continually? Why do we try to lead initiatives, and why do New Zealanders take such pride in their country? How do we do it? We have to say, right here, right now, that in John Key we have one of the best leaders this country has ever seen. We have one of the most aspirational leaders. We have a leader who says to the people of New Zealand that being average is just not good enough; we can do so much better. We can raise our standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00228e1a00f50b864763898b52958a5c363d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e1a00f50b864763898b52958a5c363d\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This Budget has talked at great length about the impact it will have on young people. It has been proposed that that impact will be a positive one. I want to look beyond what the Budget does and does not do for young people in the here and now, and discuss the impact that some of the decisions will have on future generations. After all, the measure of true leadership is not necessarily what is achieved in one 3-year cycle, but in the years beyond that and the legacy that is left. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI start, though, with the crucial period of zero to 7 years, and the incredible impact that the Budget has on these years. The longer I have worked in the area of youth justice, the more I have come to understand that so many of the solutions and the remedies, and so many of the interventions to prevent young people from going down a path that leads them to crime, lie in the period between when they enter this world and until they hit about 7 years of age. This should be the major focus of any Government that is genuine about early interventions. In fact, this should be the focus of any Government that is also genuine about issues of literacy and numeracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThat was something that Labour recognised, and is why when Labour was in Government it set a very clear target around early childhood education. That target was that centres should have trained and qualified staff working in them, and the target should be that 100 percent of those staff are trained and qualified. We did that with good reason. Evidence suggested that in terms of outcomes, the No. 1 difference we could make for a child in an early childhood education centre was to ensure that that child was taught by a trained and registered teacher. That was the No. 1 thing that would make a difference to that child. In fact, cost-benefit analysis of early childhood education investment shows a benefit ratio of 12:1 in terms of, for instance, the impact it has later on in life in lots of different areas, including lowering crime rates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWhether we invest in this area is simply a matter of choice, in my view. This is the choice the Government has made. Not only has it decided to cut $250 million from early childhood education, it has done so by targeting centres that have reached a level of having trained staff at 80 to 100 percent. That decision has left the centres with two choices: either to make their centre, their place of learning, less affordable for parents, or to reduce the quality of education that they provide for these young children. This has also put parents in a painful and difficult predicament. They are the ones making the choice between affordability and quality. We are talking about a difference of $20 to $30 per child per week, and that is a very real and hard decision that the parents of 93,000 children will have to make. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThese changes have also had an impact on the students who are studying to become early childhood educators. I spoke with some recently on Waiheke Island who are already in training. One of the students said to me: \u201CI\u2019m wondering now why I should bother continuing with training, when there is little incentive to employ me now, when I\u2019m regarded as not being a priority by the Government\u201D and potentially she will be going to centres that will be trying to reduce the number of trained staff that they have. As I understand it, there are students who are now actively considering whether they are now unemployable because of their skills, rather than more employable. In fact, other disincentives have been put in place, such as the fact that there is now less support for those who are studying who may require support to do their placements of up to 7 weeks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThis Budget does not invest in the almost 3,000 kids in central Auckland who are affected by these changes. But there is an even bigger group again, in the younger generation, who will be impacted by the Budget changes. In the area where I work for Labour, central Auckland, the biggest cohort of young people are the 20 to 29-year-olds. They make up almost 30 percent of the Auckland Central electorate. It is a significant group, and significant when compared with the rest of the country. This Budget, for them, was worse than just doing nothing. In many ways it will have an impact in the longer term. Young people are more likely to be unemployed than any other group; we already know that. Every time a recession emerges, and a crisis arises such as in the 1990s, or what we are seeing now, it is young people who become the most vulnerable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe know at the moment that almost 40,000 young people aged 15 to 19 years are unemployed. That number is up by 8,000 from the previous year. If we take on the next cohort, the next age bracket, the number lifts to about 60,000. The Government claims that this Budget will help those young people. I contend that there is very little evidence to suggest that it will. On the forecasts within the Budget we saw that there will be roughly, over the life of the Budget, an increase in the creation of jobs of around 10,000. But that is gradual, and they are not just jobs for young people. When considering how significant the number is, it is only a drop in the bucket. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ESome of the measures that we see in the Budget, which presumably are meant to help young people, are also contradictory. The Youth Guarantee gives a handful of places to some of our most vulnerable young people\u2014those who are currently not in training, education, or employment. I applaud the notion behind what is trying to be achieved with those placements, but simply question whether it is on a size and scale that will change, or make a significant difference to, the young people who are what we call NEET\u2014not in employment, education, or training. In fact, if we spread it across polytechs, some of the new placements that have been trumpeted by Steven Joyce, we are looking at about 23 places per polytech. It is not a significant number at all, when we consider that the Government at the same time has kept in place its caps on enrolment. Young people who are trying to upskill are being turned away from training and education, and that is an absolute shame and disgrace when we are in the middle of a recession that is still hurting these people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIn tertiary education we have also seen some significant cuts, but I do not think they have received the amount of attention they deserve. There is $349 million for student loan funding, and that will, of course, have an impact. The Government has tried to cordon off the sets of young people who will be affected by these changes, but they do predominantly, if we are honest, hit those who are the most vulnerable. There are limits on when migrants can apply for student loans, and there are also impacts for those young people who are struggling with pass rates at university. Arbitrary measures like that I think have unintended consequences and may result in detrimental effects for the kinds of young people whom we are not intending to target with these changes. I think again that there has been a failure to deal with the tricky issue that the young people who cannot get into institutions are the ones we should be focusing on, but ousting those who are already accessing education and training into an environment where there are no jobs does nothing to assist them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBut it is not just those decisions that are in the here and now. There are decisions that have been made that will impact on these young people for generations to come. It is one of my bitter disappointments that it is very hard to get a rallying cry amongst young people around the significant changes to superannuation. But these decisions will no doubt have a massive impact. Young people now probably are not thinking about the fact that the suspension of investment into the Superannuation Fund for the next 10 years, and also cutting the contributions to KiwiSaver, mean that our once-universal pension scheme runs the risk of becoming unviable in the long term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAn honest conversation needs to be held by the Government that is making these decisions and these changes with the younger generation about the fact that the Government obviously has no intention of the pension scheme remaining a viable system. That is something the Government should certainly be challenged on. Likewise it should be challenged about the changes to accident compensation. New Zealand has always benefited from a world-class, no-fault system, but that is being eroded for future generations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI turn to homeownership. The basis on which our superannuation scheme is viable is that people in their old age will have an asset\u2014their home. At this current rate, given our supply issues, and given the lack of affordability around housing, many of our young people will not have that asset in their old age. This, again, undermines the potential for them to securely retire to a level that we would consider adequate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThis Budget was all about priorities. Everything I have seen in this Budget, when it comes to young people, demonstrates to me that the decisions are short-sighted and also that the current generation and future generations were not a priority for this Government in the 2010 Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002290cf1dfac38a4fe4a1b671d84fb8632b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290cf1dfac38a4fe4a1b671d84fb8632b\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great privilege to take a reasonably short call on the particularly good Appropriation (2009/10 Supplementary Estimates) Bill and Imprest Supply (First for 2010/11) Bill. This Budget has done something that I did not think was possible, and that was to be even better than last year\u2019s Budget. It is a fantastic Budget. It is starting to put in place very clearly and succinctly a road map for economic growth, and it is also dealing with the issues that really matter to people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIt was interesting listening to the previous speaker, Jacinda Ardern. I am sure she was very genuine in what she said and what she thought, but never at any stage did I hear any acknowledgment that the money that is paying for all these services comes from the taxpayer. There is no such thing as Government money; it all comes from the taxpayer. When we give to one person, it means we have to take from someone else, unfortunately. The Labour Party has forgotten that a lot of the people it says it represents are the people who pay the bills. They are the people who have to get up every day and try to go to work and pay their taxes. When they see their money being wasted on every single little nanny State scheme that has nothing to do with their reality, they get very upset. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe all know that we want early childhood education, which is why so much money is going into it. We want good education for our children, and we want to know that when children get into trouble there is someone there to help them and someone to help their parents find their way through. But we also want to know that the real basics are being dealt with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EFor instance, let us look at the law and order issue. Under National we have seen about 380 extra police from when we took Government in November 2008. That is a fantastic turn-round. In Counties-Manukau we promised 300 extra police, and we will have that by the end of this year, and we will have 600 extra police in New Zealand by the end of next year. That is the sort of milestone that this Parliament should be celebrating. We should also be celebrating the fact that we now have a Government that backs the police. Under the previous Government there was trial after trial about Tasers, for instance. It did not want to have Tasers rolled out, because it could hurt someone\u2019s human rights! We have given out 720 Tasers to our New Zealand police. We are backing them to use them wisely, and they are doing a fantastic job at it. We are seeing people\u2019s lives being saved because we are backing the police to do the right thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe are also putting victims first. We have established a victims\u2019 fund to try to help improve the services for victims. We have given new powers to the police for on-the-spot protection orders so that they can deal with the victims of domestic violence and crime very quickly and in the interest of victims. We put $72.4 million into Fresh Start for young offenders. All of this money is continuing on from what we did last year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIn addition to the 11 new laws that we have passed in terms of law and order, a great deal of extra money has gone into defence, into transport, and into issues that help the economy as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe other thing we can say now is that we are making it worthwhile for ordinary Kiwis\u2014the people who pay the bills\u2014to work and to stay here in New Zealand and to contribute to the New Zealand economy. These are the people we need to have in New Zealand\u2014the people who go to work every day, work their hardest, pay their taxes, and bring up their children. These people are not constantly in our prisons; they are good, law-abiding New Zealanders. We know these are the people who pay the bills. That is something Labour forgot after 9 long years of power. National has not forgotten it and we will not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u00225a4c7c1dda1e44a28b85ef3b0a677ca2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a4c7c1dda1e44a28b85ef3b0a677ca2\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly in this debate on the Appropriation (2009/10 Supplementary Estimates) Bill and the Imprest Supply (First for 2010/11) Bill I will say how proud I am to have the opportunity to support Bill English and John Key with this Budget. It really is a fantastic Budget. It puts economic growth front and centre stage, which is so crucial in this economy and in this country. I think it is so exciting that we finally have a country again where we are talking about how we grow the cake. All the debates now are about how we grow the cake, but previously it was all about how we distribute the cake and who was getting their share. At last, over the last year and a half, we have been talking about how to grow it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe whole public debate has moved, and I think that is exciting for this country. A lot of credit goes to Bill English and his Budget, and not just Budget 2010 but also Budget 2009. The reason that the Budget puts economic growth front and centre stage is, firstly, that it tilts the economy towards savings, investments, and exports. We are already seeing that in terms of the renewed emphasis on our exports sector and the exciting stuff that we are getting, which is partially due to world events and partially due, no doubt, to the Government\u2019s actions. Secondly, our major tax reform package is crucially important to helping families get ahead. It understands what my colleague Minister Collins said, which is that it is all about the taxpayers and giving them the right incentives to do more to get ahead. This tax reform package does that. It means that after 1 October this year people earning the average wage will face a top marginal tax rate of 17.5 percent. That is exciting stuff and it means that these people can at last say that if they work a bit harder and if they do some overtime, they can get ahead under their own steam. That is crucially important. People will really notice the effect that will have. Frankly, the consumer confidence figures that we are seeing after the Budget was announced already reflect that. These people have enthusiasm for the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe next thing that is crucially important is the improved fiscal outlook. That is very, very important because, effectively, keeping the fiscal books in a better shape reduces interest rates across the cycle, will keep the exchange rate under control, and means that we are not borrowing against future generations as much. We are getting back into surplus as soon as we possibly can\u2014a couple of years earlier than we were going to. It is all about the control of expenditure. Ultimately, it is about living with this $1.1 billion cap in new spending. We do not have to go far to work out how hard that can be for some people, because most of the solutions the Opposition raises involve more spending. The trouble with more spending is that it keeps sucking the life out of the real economy of this country, and we cannot afford to do that. That is the fourth reason why this is a great Budget for economic growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EIt is right across the board. I will focus briefly on the infrastructure area. I have a passing interest in it, particularly the roading area. We have a big investment going, in particular the seven roads of national significance. They are very important roads for this country. They are the most clogged of our rural highways generally, and a couple of urban ones as well, and we are seeing real progress. If we go around our biggest cities these days people are saying that the transport stuff is really starting to work faster. The commitment that the Government has made has really accelerated that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c479617e6294701825c19ba12f4debd\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Name one new project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205dc5868bfff4bac93439e7cc0d0827b\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we could name a few for Darren Hughes. There is Victoria Park. If he has not been there, it is a big\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc2ec41c3e8848ecbafd655a8930020c\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: That started under us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022027214e0ce1943f9aafb3132bb045586\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: No way, sunshine. The Victoria Park contract was let under this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EMembers will find that things move much faster too. People are saying that the M\u0101ngere Bridge duplication is moving much, much faster under the new Government. It is due to finish 6 months earlier that it was\u2014in early August. Would that have happened under the Labour Party? Absolutely not on your nelly. There is no doubt about that. It is happening much, much faster. There was the old \u201CTG\u201D\u2014there is more to say on that one soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThen there is the rail system. We had to rejig the rail system because Labour had committed, firstly, to buy it at a ridiculous sum of money, and, secondly, to spend whatever it took. In fact, I think it still wants us to spend more money on the rail. We have invested sensibly in a turn-round plan, which is $750 million over 3 years to make sure that rail gets moving, but in a responsible and commercial way that does not crowd out the private investment in the other modes. That is crucially important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EOf course, there is the investment in ultra-fast broadband and in rural broadband. Most recently, there have been about 30-odd expressions of interest for the Rural Broadband Initiative. There is a lot of excitement in rural areas about that programme, which is a big programme of $300 million. I look across the benches and I see the eminent Leader of the House, who is taking us through the electricity transmission investments, which are massive for New Zealand. The bit that still amazes me whenever we talk in Cabinet about Transpower is that it did not actually get done under the previous Government. There were these massive and important investments\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238fc5aaf857a401e940b1b121d8be8f5\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: What were you doing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0ec9b6ae4d54c7c9f452539076336e3\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: What were those members doing for that entire time? I know what they were doing: they were rearranging the governance model. That was all they were doing. Now Transpower is investing massive amounts of money in New Zealand\u2019s electricity grid. All this stuff helps. It is very exciting to see that happening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EWe have a real opportunity, and I hope that one day the Opposition will grasp it. Members opposite are being a little bit negative, which is a bit of a surprise! I hope that they grasp this fantastic opportunity. New Zealand has a real opportunity to stand out from the crowd over the next few years. We are in the situation where we do not have as much debt as some other countries do, and we have not had the problems with the banks that some countries have had. As a result, New Zealand does not face some of the issues that the rest of the world is facing. We are also in a lucky part of the world in terms of our involvement with the People\u2019s Republic of China. It is making massive investments, which is making an improvement in our trade figures. All these things are very important, but we also have a Government that is focused on economic growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EIf we take those three things together\u2014the international outlook in our part of the world, the financial situation and the fact that we have not had to bail out our banks, and the Government\u2019s actions in terms of promoting economic growth\u2014it is an exciting time for this country. All across the country we are starting to hear some great stories, whether it is Fonterra and the investments it is making, Zespri and what it is talking about doing over the next few years, or export education. I was lucky enough to be in Shanghai last week. The Chinese are abuzz with the export education opportunities in this country. I think it is very exciting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EWe need a good, strong, steady hand on the tiller and somebody who understands the financial need in this market, and Bill English is doing that fantastically. We are being led by a Prime Minister who understands the importance of growth and of giving people the opportunity to do business. We are getting the opportunity to secure that brighter future, and we will look back in a few years\u2019 time to Budget 2010 and say that it was the turning point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u00222f947dbd3051427aad266e1bd23b1abf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f947dbd3051427aad266e1bd23b1abf\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: There are two amendments, and those amendments have to be put first before we come to the substantive motion. The first is an amendment moved by Trevor Mallard to an amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bf4e05f4b52b4873a75ccfdf16e5dddc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment in the name of Hon David Cunliffe be amended by adding the following after \u201Cfluctuations\u201D: \u201Cand because the Government will not provide for the validation and borrowing by King\u2019s High School Dunedin and the allocation of funds to the repayment of loans relating to the Performance Arts Centre at no net cost to the Crown\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u0022d86a3b4df46849a589d9119a5de948c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d86a3b4df46849a589d9119a5de948c0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: We now come to an amendment moved by the Hon David Cunliffe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ab2fece6b5074259b17c94e3d5556e33\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the words after \u201CThat\u201D be omitted and the following substituted: \u201Cthis House has no confidence in the National Government because these Supplementary Estimates fail to redress the underlying problems and omissions from Budget 2009, which remain uncorrected by Budget 2010, namely the triple deficit of grossly inadequate national savings, made worse by the halving of KiwiSaver incentives and the indefinite deferral of New Zealand Superannuation pre-funding; a deep, persistent and dangerous current account deficit, driven by a growing net investment imbalance and a financial sector that is almost entirely foreign owned; and an innovation deficit made worse by scrapping the research and development tax credits and the Fast Forward Fund; resulting in increasing reliance on commodity trade that is highly exposed to price fluctuations.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f05bda12d349465d95b6b11ee095fe4d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Appropriation (2009/10 Supplementary Estimates) Bill and the Imprest Supply (First for 2010/11) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBills read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b4517c2f992143c6b6a95b3e6fb698f7\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2009/10 Supplementary Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c3be2f055299466bbc09d4ec4d9700a1\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef692bbb71864c0fb1088b5daa0461f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef692bbb71864c0fb1088b5daa0461f7\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Economic Development)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Finance: I move, That the Appropriation (2009/10 Supplementary Estimates) Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e207657ed6704e1eb3d0fa403a85d813\u0022\u003EImprest Supply (First for 2010/11) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a0e9d8f073b24d39822faa75a33f2e00\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea241abd9df946dc8f4f0ab020eb1af0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea241abd9df946dc8f4f0ab020eb1af0\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Economic Development)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Finance: I move, That the Imprest Supply (First for 2010/11) Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c842f35ec0ec4c7a8795222ff400f360\u0022\u003ERugby World Cup 2011 (Empowering) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cbd0d5338dce4947b2ed1378e2d49632\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002276eea75d5b044676a021892db0cb3085\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276eea75d5b044676a021892db0cb3085\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Acting Minister for the Rugby World Cup):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Rugby World Cup 2011 (Empowering) Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be considered by the Government Administration Committee and that the committee report finally to the House on or before 23 August 2010. The bill is temporary legislation intended to enable the consent and regulatory approvals necessary for the smooth running of activities related to the Rugby World Cup and the facilities that will support that event. It will help to ensure that New Zealand can meet its hospitality and hosting requirements and can take full advantage of the opportunities that hosting this event will produce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe bill has three main parts. First, it covers the establishment of a Rugby World Cup Authority to consider and determine applications for approvals and declarations of permitted activities or facilities under an expedited process. Second, it makes provision for urgent declarations of permitted Rugby World Cup activities or facilities to be made by Order in Council, and for urgent approvals to be granted during the tournament for matters reasonably necessary for the proper conduct of the Rugby World Cup. It also establishes a Rugby World Cup liquor licensing regime that will allow the Rugby World Cup Authority to grant the temporary liquor licences necessary for the unique hospitality requirements of this event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe bill is necessary because the approval process under existing legislation is not sufficient to cater for the extraordinary requirements that this event will present. The Rugby World Cup is one of the largest sporting events in the world, and it will be the largest event ever staged in New Zealand. The 2011 tournament is expected to attract a television audience of close to 4 billion people and to draw at least 85,000 international visitors to New Zealand over a 6-week period in September and October of 2011. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe hosting requirements for an event of this scale present significant infrastructural challenges. Time-critical temporary Rugby World Cup activities and facilities will require a wide range of consents, licences, and regulatory approvals that existing processes are not suited to address. This is because of the long time frames currently needed for some approval processes, the risk of capacity constraints arising within some consenting authorities, and the likelihood that urgent approvals may be needed to resolve unforeseen circumstances during the tournament itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESeveral options have been considered for addressing consents and regulatory approvals in relation to this event. The options considered included amending district plans or local by-laws, and making amendments to the Major Events Management Act 2007 to include provision for a streamlined consent process for every event that is declared a major event. However, after considering these options, together with legislative precedents both in New Zealand and overseas, the option of a stand-alone bill specific to the Rugby World Cup was preferred. A Rugby World Cup - specific bill also limits any adverse impacts to those that are unavoidable for the successful hosting of this event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe bill is time-bound and will cease to have effect shortly after the conclusion of the Rugby World Cup. There is precedent for legislation of this nature in the America\u2019s Cup (Planning) Act 1989, which was enacted to address consenting requirements for the development of Auckland\u2019s Viaduct Basin for the possible defence of an America\u2019s Cup at that time. Another example is the Local Government (Millennium Events) Amendment Act 1999, which temporarily amended the Local Government Act 1974 in order to enable local authorities to apply to central government for amendments to district plans to accommodate millennium events. There are also examples from overseas\u2014notably, the London Olympic Games and Paralympic Games Act 2006 and the Commonwealth Games Arrangements Act 2001, which was enacted for the 2006 Melbourne Commonwealth Games. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EConcerns may be expressed that the mechanisms in this bill contain limited rights to public participation in a consenting process, limited rights of appeal, and temporary replacement of other existing legislation. I believe that those concerns are outweighed by the benefits that the bill will provide by ensuring that approvals for Rugby World Cup activities and facilities can be dealt with in a nationally consistent manner without unnecessary cost or delay. It is also possible that certain activities approved by the authority may impose temporary costs on some people and/or the environment. By and large, they would be temporary and in the form of elevated noise levels, diminished amenity values, and increased traffic congestion associated with permitted Rugby World Cup activities, all of which should be expected with an event of this nature. In hearing applications for temporary approvals, the Rugby World Cup Authority will be expected to weigh the costs and benefits of proposed actions according to the same principles as would be applied normally, though in a shortened time frame and having particular regard for the need to ensure the proper conduct of the event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIn certain cases, where urgent consent is required, appeal rights are curtailed in order that urgent consents for critical tournament infrastructure can be granted. This could be perceived by some as a restriction of their rights to be heard on consent issues. The concern is, I think, offset by the economic and national interest benefits of ensuring that hosting opportunities are maximised and the international expectations of New Zealand are met, as well as preserving and enhancing our reputation as a future major events destination. It is important, however, that the proposed legislation does not unfairly curtail rights to public participation in the consenting process or the ability of businesses and individuals to express their views on the impacts of proposals. I believe that the bill strikes a balance between the need to ensure the Rugby World Cup can deliver optimum benefit to New Zealanders and to our New Zealand communities and the needs and expectations of those affected by temporary infrastructure and arrangements that may be required. The fixed tournament time frame requires that the bill strikes a balance between participation principles and expediting processes to achieve the necessary outcomes. The bill presents the best effort to get a balance between those competing interests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI will now address the three main parts of the bill. First, it empowers the Rugby World Cup Authority to be established as the consenting body to consider applications for regulatory approvals for activities, facilities, etc. that are reasonably necessary for the proper conduct of the Rugby World Cup. These might include, for example, resource consents for temporary structures like marquees that may be required around Rugby World Cup hospitality close to venues. These provisions will mean that the Rugby World Cup Authority will be able to declare that classes of facilities or activities are permitted for the Ruby World Cup and will not be subject to further approval requirements. Applications for declarations of permitted activities or facilities are subject to tight criteria, which will ensure that the declarations are granted only for matters that relate to the Rugby World Cup. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe other parts of this bill that are the most important are the parts that contain two mechanisms for urgent Rugby World Cup approval of facilities, a power for the Governor-General to make regulations so prescribing, and a power for the Minister for the Rugby World Cup to grant temporary or urgent approvals for such activities. Those powers are constrained by the fact that there needs to be representation to the Minister or the Governor-General from the Rugby World Cup Authority, and a Minister must consider the authority\u2019s recommendations also and consult with the Minister for Economic Development\u2014a very cooperative Minister in this regard\u2014and the Minister for the Environment. On the issue of liquor licensing, the bill establishes temporary arrangements; people should not be concerned about that. One of the primary objectives is to make sure that issues around public health and safety are to the fore and that harm minimisation is well considered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThis will be one of the great events for New Zealand. It was heralded when the previous Government assisted the Rugby Union in securing the opportunity to run the Rugby World Cup, as it was seen as being of great potential value to New Zealand. The current Government concurs with that view. We look forward to the passage of this bill tonight in a spirit that says that we want New Zealand to make the very best of the opportunities that this event could present to us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00220b80b8ab651f463eaf0aebe15c19f460\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b80b8ab651f463eaf0aebe15c19f460\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Acting Minister for his introductory speech, which sounded a bit like it had been drafted in another office. It did not really sound like him. It sounded like his heart was perhaps not quite in it in the way that it may otherwise be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI will make it clear from the beginning that the Labour Opposition will support the Rugby World Cup 2011 (Empowering) Bill going to a select committee. I think it is important that that select committee has hearings, especially in Auckland, to work through the issues in the bill. But I do make it clear to the Minister that it may well be that Labour does not support it further unless some of our concerns around the bill are sorted out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister that our primary concern with this legislation is the power that is left in the hands of a Minister for liquor licensing, town planning, and resource consent issues in a way that, in my opinion, is inconsistent. I thank Mr McCully and his office for the consultation that has occurred to date, and I think this bill is better than it was when we first saw drafts of it. But the concern that I have is that even with the guiding hand of the Minister for Economic Development, I am not sure that any Minister should be making decisions about roads being opened or closed, buildings being developed, bars being opened or closed, or licences being taken away or granted. My view is that our system works better when we have people who have a proper judicial or senior legal background making those decisions, rather than those decisions being, in the end, political decisions. The legislation is drafted at the moment so that although a Minister must receive the recommendation from the Rugby World Cup Authority, he is not obliged to take it. I think that is an issue that has to be worked through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EAs to the necessity for having legislation, there are two areas that convince me that it is necessary. One is that in the end we do not know what we do not know. There could well be something that becomes apparent quite late in the process where we will need to have changes made that would go across normal resource consent procedures, especially the time frames involved in those. There is a degree of unpredictability about what that might be. Some of it might happen right up until, or even during, the Rugby World Cup\u2014for example, if there is a transport planning problem that becomes apparent in Auckland and planning for particular streets needs to be changed. If it was in Wellington, there would not be a problem as the local authority has systems that could do it relatively quickly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThen we get on to what the second problem is, which is Auckland. Auckland at the best of times is not good at handling major events. Its regulatory processes are not good. Its ability to do things\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b1820613f734865a2e3f6391f910f38\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not our fault.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a84692d59392408792bc58ead2921197\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is not the fault of that soon-to-be local member for Auckland Central. I am sure that if we had the election early and Jacinda was the local member, as she will be after the next election, this bill would be unnecessary as within a couple of weeks she would have sorted the council out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe point I am trying to make, in a serious vein, is that Auckland has generally not been as good at accommodating events as Wellington, Christchurch, and, to a lesser extent, Dunedin, because Auckland does not have things quite on the same scale. On top of that, we have the super-city and its development. It will be about a year old and still developing its systems at the point of the Rugby World Cup. Many of those decisions need to be made well before then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI do not have a problem with the development of an authority and I do not have a problem with the time frames being more limited than they would otherwise be, although I will say to people that they should not rely on this system. If they can get their approval under a standard system now, they would be better to do it on that basis and have something that is enduring rather than just for the Rugby World Cup. Also, I think people should not get the expectation that approvals will be anything like automatic under this legislation. This legislation does not change the basis for making the decisions or the things that have to be weighed up. The rules are not, essentially, changed in terms of the substantive balance required for making the decisions. I think there will be more consistency and that will be good, but people should not rely on this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EOne of the concerns I have about the bill, and the reason I am supporting a relatively limited select committee period, is the fact that it has taken so long to get the bill to the House. It was my expectation that this legislation would be introduced in the first half of 2009, and we now see it about a year later than we thought it should be. I am not particularly criticising; in fact, probably my own intervention held it up by a month or so in order to attempt to get it improved. But things would have been better if this had been in place at some time in the past, and things could have been moved along. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe other point that I make is that I am not in a position where I have any great concerns around the running of the tournament itself. I am sure the games and the arrangements will work well. I am pretty pleased with the development of the stadia. I took the opportunity to have a quick glance at the Forsyth Barr Stadium at University Plaza in Dunedin when I was down there for the weekend. It was opposite the nude rugby. I say this as a slight, by the way; I was a touch judge on the adjoining ground to where the nude rugby game was being played, and I spent quite a lot of time avoiding being photographed looking in that particular direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad1de0c904034ee7adaefc32d8058850\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Were you wearing dark glasses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ebfc9f3b8704e7ba6bd981d69142f1e\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No, I was not wearing dark glasses, but I was deliberately keeping my back as far as possible to that game. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe point I am making is the stadium looks like it is making good progress. Certainly, Eden Park is making good progress, as well. There have been a number of areas, including, I understand, in the Hawke\u2019s Bay, where things are completed to the point they need to be and that is good. There are some minor issues around Eden Park, more around the public transport arrangements. My understanding is that the last bit of those will have to be put in place as a result through this legislation, and I think that is something that would be useful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EAnother point I will make is I am getting a bit concerned at the leverage activity. As an aside, I ask how come, as we have all that great publicity coming back from South Africa, there are no Tourism New Zealand stands. The organisation is meant to be supporting us and we have put money into it for media purposes\u2014basic things like having New Zealand trade and tourism backgrounds when our All Whites are being interviewed\u2014and that is not being done. It is just basic stuff that the Government has people over there to do, but they are not doing it. I just wanted to say that I do not have enormous faith in some of the arrangements that are going on here. The Government has to stop the arguments between McCully and Brownlee, and just get on with the work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7d89183ad8141b0b226a44f62b11ba9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7d89183ad8141b0b226a44f62b11ba9\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Rugby World Cup 2011 (Empowering) Bill. This bill provides temporary legislation to enable timely consent and regulatory approvals necessary for Rugby World Cup 2011 activities and facilities. It involves the establishment of the Rugby World Cup Authority, and it establishes provisions for urgent consents. It also provides for the establishment of a Rugby World Cup liquor licensing scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThis event is one of the biggest-ever sporting events to come to New Zealand\u2014I hope it is, anyway. It is certainly important for New Zealand\u2019s global brand, and it is incredibly important for our economy, not only in the big cities\u2014Auckland, Dunedin, Christchurch, or Hamilton\u2014but also all over New Zealand, right down to the smallest towns. They have understood and realised the opportunity we face, with up to 85,000 visitors\u2014and possibly more\u2014expected, and with many more watching on television. It really is a chance for us to showcase New Zealand to the world as a great place to live, a great place to visit, and a very good place in which to do business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThis bill will help make the Rugby World Cup a success by allowing the temporary streamlining of Government regulatory processes. I imagine that they will be things like the consenting processes required to erect a marquee for some kind of event related to a game. Those processes can be expensive and timely. I imagine that the bill deals with that kind of process, and with the myriad other processes and consents required\u2014and the timeliness of them\u2014to ensure the success of the tournament and the many activities that will support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThis event is the third-largest sporting event in the world, and it is the largest event that New Zealand has ever hosted. A lot of planning has gone into it, and this bill is an important part of the process. A deliberate decision was made to spread the tournament right around the country. It has been said, and it is true, that we are a stadium of 4 million people. There are 48 matches in 13 venues across New Zealand. That provides enormous opportunity for smaller centres, which may not even be hosting a game, to take advantage of the interest in the Rugby World Cup and to put on their own festivals associated with the tournament. In my own corner of the South Island, in \u014C\u0101maru, North Otago, we are hosting the New Zealand Golden Oldies Rugby Festival. Planning has been under way for well over a year. It will culminate in a rugby game that will comprise the North Otago Waitaki Wasps versus the rest of the world. I am hoping to play a small part in that\u2014I think I will be the ball boy. But\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3588f9bee8c446c87ea10982520622b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Hooker? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b129a85c717c42f28acd4f06c586988e\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes, maybe the hooker. I thank the member across the House for that. It is an exciting opportunity for North Otago, and we hope to attract many, many hundreds of people to the district because of it. We want to make the most of their visit. We want to take advantage of it. We want to host them well and to provide opportunities for them to spend their money in our region. We are always very keen on that. We are keen to showcase our region to them as they travel to and fro from Queenstown to Christchurch and Dunedin, where games will be held. This bill will enable our local consent processes to be done in an expeditious way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI am very pleased to be standing in the first reading of the Rugby World Cup 2011 (Empowering) Bill. I look forward to good scrutiny of the bill by the Government Administration Committee, and I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00226009ef34bac14cc49fe9c67be938bf38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226009ef34bac14cc49fe9c67be938bf38\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to join with the Labour Party in supporting, as Trevor Mallard has already noted, the referral of the Rugby World Cup 2011 (Empowering) Bill to a select committee. [Interruption] It is very important to note that it will be referred to the Government Administration Committee, where I will look forward to Mr Hayes\u2019 normal constructive contribution throughout.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f322db5922d843a98207987fa292e490\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: He should have been Minister of Foreign Affairs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238242573030447288d9a140f46afe745\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: He could have been. He could have applied all the diplomatic skill and tact to that role that he brings to the Government Administration Committee, week in, week out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party is supporting this bill to a select committee but, as Mr Mallard said, we want to reserve our position beyond that point, because there are a number of quite significant and important decisions being taken here that deserve closer scrutiny by the committee. We want to make sure we retain the balance between enabling the tournament to take place and to be a fantastic advertisement for New Zealand and protecting the rights that we already have in law for people to have their say about developments and for developments not to detrimentally affect the environment or the places where we live. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons I personally feel comfortable about supporting this bill to go to a select committee is that the other options we have in front of us for managing the quite large amount of work that will need to take place are not processes that we have the ability to do now and be confident that we can host the cup in the way we would like. The regulatory impact statement gives us those two options. The first of those listed in the regulatory impact statement is to amend district plans through the Resource Management Act to allow the urgent works and additional activities to take place. It is quite clear to any of us who have had any involvement in the amendment of district plans that that would be a slow process. It would not be one that would enable us to be confident that we would have all the i\u2019s dotted and t\u2019s crossed in time for the World Cup itself. That would have been the process that provided the maximum public input into how the cup would be hosted, but I do not think it could be done in a timely manner. As Mr Mallard said, perhaps if we were discussing this a year ago we could be looking more seriously at that option, but we cannot do that now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe second option listed in the regulatory impact statement would involve amending the Major Events Management Act in order to do this, and effectively do it through an Order in Council. The bill makes a pretty good case that specific legislation is required, rather than generic legislation like the Major Events Management Act. The examples Mr Brownlee mentioned in his initial remarks, from the Commonwealth Games in Victoria, or indeed the Olympics in the UK, give us a good guide to the fact that specific legislation is very useful in this situation. It means that everybody is clear about what the powers are and how they can be used. I think this is the option we need to pursue. It needs to be referred to the select committee to be analysed and to make sure we have got that balance right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House we are cautious about going down a path that limits people\u2019s ability to have their say on developments, resource consents, and issues in their community. We have some reason on this side of the House to be cautious about what the Government might do in that regard, because we have seen several examples where people\u2019s democratic rights at a local authority level have been undermined. We stood in this Chamber and a number of us took calls as we watched the people of Canterbury lose their right to even have an election. We watched with some sense of horror as an election was cancelled for the people of Canterbury and their council was taken away from them completely. I think members will understand why we are cautious on this side of the House about a bill that will limit people\u2019s rights in terms of how they interact with their local authorities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe have also seen that in Auckland, and I am sure my colleague Phil Twyford when he speaks later in this debate will speak a bit more, perhaps, about how in Auckland there is deep concern about the way in which democratic rights are being undermined as the super-city is created. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b000eb8d33f947c9820654f4bd41f4c8\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: And in Franklin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fcd4eb5ab4b465cabff85241aa7ee12\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: In Franklin and Rodney, that is right. Both of those districts are very concerned. Overall on this side of the House we operate in a very cautious way when it comes to looking at how this Government approaches local democracy. This bill really is about local democracy, in many ways. On the surface it states that we want to protect people\u2019s rights in terms of how resource consents are granted and how major events are dealt with, but it also puts in place an infrastructure that will speed things up and, if need be, potentially circumvent that protection. As Mr Mallard has already stated, the basis of the decision making for the local authorities will still be the same, but there are now in this bill a number of processes that will move around that protection, and potentially circumvent it, and we need to be cautious about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI will speak briefly about a couple of specific issues within the bill. On the establishment of the Rugby World Cup Authority in Part 2, it is obviously important to have a group that can oversee the measures, but I am a little concerned about the relationship between the authority and the Minister for the Rugby World Cup. Again, as Mr Mallard has already said, the authority has a certain set of powers. It will have people appointed to it by the Minister in consultation with some other Ministers, including, for instance, the Minister for the Environment, which is a good thing, but it means that at the end of the day the Minister will be put in the position of possibly making quite specific decisions about matters to do with resource consents, liquor-licensing issues, and so on. I think we need to be very cautious of that, and I note too that the Minister for the Rugby World Cup said he would be consulting with the Minister for Economic Development. I want to pause for a minute and say in all seriousness that with Mr Brownlee fulfilling both of those roles, we have to be careful about that, in this situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cdb0139210b48598d762ae2500cde14\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: McCully\u2019s actually the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4d79dd388c844c2826dadee0a730914\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, he is the Minister for the Rugby World Cup. Mr Brownlee is the Associate Minister for the Rugby World Cup, is he not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c495b92fbe9f416093b33e6ce7b21069\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Gerry\u2019s the Associate Minister, but he does all the work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223969aed350f44659826140f97870d65d\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Right, that is obviously the cause of confusion. It is that Gerry is doing all the work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1d318e8f5ce4a5bac52c896a6825b81\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Hard to believe, I know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291e81c4e7ffd484c9b597f0052c1ec15\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, between those two, Mr Brownlee and Mr McCully, it is a tough choice, is it not? I think we have to be very careful about the accountability between those two Ministers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI also want to pick up Mr Mallard\u2019s point about leverage. As a country we knew when we got the right to host the Rugby World Cup that it offered a huge opportunity not just for 70,000 people to show up here, travel around here, and enjoy the games but also to showcase New Zealand. I remember in the very early days discussions about things like a New Zealand film festival that would tour the country where the major teams were playing, and a touring New Zealand music festival that would also tour the country where the major teams would play. I do not get a sense that we are hearing those kinds of innovative ideas coming out of the Government now. The leverage is where New Zealand can really benefit from this event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7a64c456d1540a997729e3d13bd7d0e\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not worth having, economically, without it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281d3d954d19d41c188536cc3c5df1fe2\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right, because otherwise it will not deliver the benefits that everyone hoped for. I hope we will hear more about that. I know there are people beavering away in the Ministry of Economic Development on those ideas, but I am not sure how far that has reached out to other parts of New Zealand\u2019s creative sector or, indeed, other parts of the economy. It would be good to see a greater amount of leverage, a more focused amount of the leverage that the Rugby World Cup can give us. I hope that Ministers McCully and Brownlee will be able to deal with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is important to have a bill such as this one because issues will arise as we prepare for the World Cup that we have not foreseen. Right now in Auckland the staff of the Rendezvous Hotel have been locked out. That is a 4\u00BD-star hotel, with people on the minimum wage. Obviously I and many colleagues would like to see a lockout like that end quickly, but we will see more things like that. People are putting up tariffs in the hotels to exorbitant rates, and I do not think we are seeing much in terms of wage increases commensurate with the increased charges that will be coming through. Obviously this bill does not deal specifically with those sorts of matters, but it highlights that urgent matters and difficulties will arise, and we need a mechanism to be able to deal with those. What we should not do is throw out the processes that are good for New Zealand in terms of allowing people to have their say and protecting their environment. When this bill comes back from the select committee I hope it will provide a balanced approach that allows us to host a brilliant Rugby World Cup but continues to allow New Zealanders to have their say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u00221bbf8e5a9f2640e5bdf9e4b22cc79db3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bbf8e5a9f2640e5bdf9e4b22cc79db3\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora koutou. The Greens, like all other members and parties in this House, are eager to see a successful event in 2011. The Rugby World Cup will be the largest sporting event this country has ever hosted. It is large even on an international scale. There are significant opportunities to showcase the country, its businesses, its tourism opportunities; all of those things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe had quite an engaged debate about this bill, the Rugby World Cup 2011 (Empowering) Bill, and about our support for it, or not. The outcome of the debate was that we were not entirely convinced of the need for a bill to facilitate what is apparently needed, though I have listened with interest, particularly to Mr Mallard\u2019s comments. What we are quite clear about is that we cannot support this bill in its present form. When we look at this bill, effectively what we see is the construction of a large rubber stamp that will give extraordinary powers to the Minister for the Rugby World Cup to override normal processes of resource management through liquor licensing, and various other consenting and licensing approvals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWhen the news broke in 2005 that we had the rights to the Rugby World Cup, somewhat unexpectedly, at that point clearly we had a 6-year window of opportunity to make this thing happen. We are now 5 years into that; we have another year ahead of us before kick off at the first game. If we think it through, what is this cup effectively? It is a series of rugby games, with a number of hospitality and other events that will be organised around it. The scale is new but, after all, we have significant experience in this country of organising sports tournaments\u2014in particular, rugby tournaments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI take Mr Mallard\u2019s point that we do not know what we do not know. There is the possibility of something entirely unforeseen, but we fail to see that there is a need for the extremely wide-ranging powers given to the Minister in this bill to deal with these unforeseen circumstances, or so-called unforeseen circumstances, of urgency that would necessitate overriding the standard Resource Management Act processes and other processes to ensure that activities or facilities can be made available. We have had 5 years, and we have another year ahead of us, to plan and to prepare for this event. I have perhaps more faith than others in the ability of the people charged with organising this series of events to have got it substantially right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EMr Brownlee, in presenting the bill, suggested the example of erecting a marquee. I acknowledge that Auckland, in particular, has not always been faultless in getting through these various processes, but I cannot believe that anybody would fail to get resource consent to erect a marquee in under a year. That simply would not happen. It is quite a nonsensical suggestion to say that we need special empowering legislation to erect a marquee where people can eat, drink, and party for an evening or two. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI ask why there is a need to overhaul the Sale of Liquor Act provisions. There will be drink\u2014rugby and drinking go hand in hand in this country\u2014there will probably be a lot of it. We are aware of the Law Commission\u2019s recent report that indicated that perhaps we need to remove sport from liquor to a more significant degree than we do. But, none the less, many of us, probably, have had the experience of applying for a special liquor licence. I have done it personally for events around community groups. I was on a board of trustees. We had cabaret nights. It is actually not a complicated or a difficult process to get a special licence for an event to serve liquor, to sell it, or to supply it. We fail to see why we need to override a piece of legislation the Sale of Liquor Act that seems to work reasonably well, reasonably quietly, and that we have had in place for a very long time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to note the executive summary in the regulatory impact statement that accompanies the bill. At the time of writing of that document the police were opposed to the idea of creating a whole new regime for licensing, but clearly, according to announcements in the last week or so, the police have come round to the position of saying that it is OK. Clearly their primary focus is on public safety, preventing disorder, and so on, but the fact is that taking away the sale of liquor provisions significantly reduces the opportunity for people to participate, to have a say, to appeal, and generally to be heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThere is a provision in the bill that is quite concerning. It specifically prohibits the authority from considering the impact on existing licence holders, either people getting special licences under this proposed legislation or under the Sale of Liquor Act. We think it is unfortunate that hospitality providers who have invested, and who are investing, heavily in providing venues and services for this event, could potentially be undermined if one-off facilities, if you like, are allowed. If I was the owner of a hospitality venue at the Viaduct Basin, for example, I would be very concerned that somebody might put up a marquee, add a bar, some music, some big screens and take business away, when I have been investing heavily in that business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe regulatory impact statement under the heading \u201CRisk Assessment\u201D states: \u201CThe purpose of the legislation is not to supplant existing resource management, liquor licensing and other consenting processes, but to support the existing regime with additional measures that the unique circumstances of the cup may call upon.\u201D I hope that the author of those words had the good grace to blush as he or she wrote them, because exactly what this proposed legislation does is supplant resource management provisions. It supplants the existing, and quite satisfactory and adequate, Sale of Liquor Act. So I wonder again about the perceived necessity for this legislation. I acknowledge that there may be a requirement for something, for the extreme, genuinely unforeseen emergency circumstance, but this bill goes many steps too far for us to support at this point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe are told that the provisions of the bill could reduce compliance costs, perhaps streamline processes, and increase the level of national consistency. Potentially it could do that; it is always easy to streamline, to make things happen more quickly and more cheaply. Whether we would get desirable outcomes, however, is a moot point. We certainly would be doing that at the cost of allowing reasonable opportunity for public participation, the public\u2019s right to know and to be heard, and for rights of appeal to be carried through as they would. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003ESo on balance, with the best will in the world towards the event itself, and acknowledging that there may be a justifiable argument to be made for some modest degree of power or extra power to be given to the Minister, we cannot in all conscience support this bill with its extremely wide-ranging powers. Effectively we cannot and will not support the notion of a rubber stamp. Kia ora koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u002268c111e99b36450089ec23591e59187c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268c111e99b36450089ec23591e59187c\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe Mr Speaker, kia ora t\u0101tau katoa e te Whare, t\u0101tau kua hui mai i t\u0113nei p\u014D ki te w\u0101nanga i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 take, ar\u0101, ko t\u0113nei pire m\u014D te Kapu Whutup\u014Dro o te Ao \u0101 te tau e heke mai nei. Mr Speaker, ko te aronga o te ao M\u0101ori ki t\u0113nei mea te whutup\u014Dro, he take e m\u014Dhiotia ana e te motu, me k\u012B, kua roa te ao M\u0101ori e whaiwhai haere ana i t\u0113nei mea te whutup\u014Dro. \u0100, i t\u0113nei tau tonu nei kei te whakanuia te kotahi rautau o te whutup\u014Dro M\u0101ori i runga i te mata whenua, me k\u012B, te whakanui i te noho o te ao M\u0101ori i roto i te whutup\u014Dro. I te Paraire kua hipa ake i toa te t\u012Bma M\u0101ori, \u012B \u0101, ki a Airani, i eke panuku, i eke tangaroa. I muia t\u014Dku k\u0101inga o roto o Te Arawa i Rotorua e te tangata, e te M\u0101ori. I noho whakah\u012Bh\u012B nei ki te toa o te t\u012Bma M\u0101ori ki runga i te manuhiri, ki runga i a Airani. \u0100p\u014Dp\u014D, ka tau atu ki roto o Heretaunga ki reira pakanga atu ai ki a Ingarangi, k\u0101tahi ka kitea mai ai m\u0113n\u0101 he toa nui, whakaharahara nei te t\u012Bma M\u0101ori, he aha r\u0101nei. Engari, koin\u0101 te t\u016Bmanako. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI ng\u0101 tau kua hipa e hia k\u0113 nei ng\u0101 M\u0101ori kua eke ki ng\u0101 taumata katoa, me k\u012B, anei an\u014D te mema nei a Paora Quinn. Kua eke t\u0113r\u0101 hei k\u0101pene m\u014D te t\u012Bma M\u0101ori. Ko \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 k\u0101pene o te t\u012Bma M\u0101ori kua noho hei k\u0101pene an\u014D hoki m\u014D te Kapa \u014D Pango. He tika t\u0101 te mema r\u0101 pea, engari he toa, he toa. Ko Buck Shelford t\u0113tahi kua noho hei k\u0101pene m\u014D Aotearoa, me k\u012B, ko T\u0101ne Norton, ko Taine Randell, r\u0101tau katoa kua noho, me k\u012B, kei t\u0113r\u0101 taumata o te Kapa \u014D Pango m\u014D Aotearoa nei. N\u014D reira, ko te tino p\u016Btake o taku k\u014Drero, Mr Speaker, he whakam\u0101rama ake i te ng\u0101kaunui o te iwi M\u0101ori ki te whutup\u014Dro. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, i t\u0113nei w\u0101hanga o t\u0113nei pire, ar\u0101, te p\u0101nuitanga tuatahi, ka tautoko ake te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori ki t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 take. N\u0101, t\u0113r\u0101 pea k\u0101ore an\u014D \u0113tahi kia rongo engari, i k\u012B mai te tumuaki o Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, a Leith Comer, he \u0101hua \u014Drite, me k\u012B, te ng\u0101kaunui, \u0101, ka mutu, te noho o te t\u012Bma M\u0101ori nei ki t\u0113r\u0101 o te hunga i haere ki t\u0101w\u0101hi ki te Hokowhitu-\u0101-T\u016B, ar\u0101, te Rua Tekau M\u0101 Waru. \u0100, i runga i te papa pakanga t\u0113tahi, i runga i te papa t\u0101karo t\u0113tahi. Ng\u0101 mea e rua, ar\u0101, ko te t\u012Bma M\u0101ori me te R\u014Dp\u016B Rua Tekau M\u0101 Waru he kaupapa hei whakanui i a t\u0101tau a Aotearoa nei. N\u014D reira, koinei te \u0101huatanga o t\u0113nei mea o te whutup\u014Dro, he whakakotahi nei pea i a t\u0101tau. \u0100, k\u0101ti, me k\u012B, he k\u014Drero wh\u0101nui t\u0113nei hei t\u012Bmatanga k\u014Drero m\u0101ku. N\u0101, kia hoki r\u0101 an\u014D ki te p\u016Btake o t\u0113nei pire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EP\u0113nei i t\u0101 w\u0113tahi e k\u014Drero nei, \u0101e, k\u0101ore e kore ka tau mai \u0113tahi painga ki Aotearoa nei n\u0101 te Kapu o te Ao engari, ko te mate k\u0113 ki t\u0101 m\u0101tau titiro, e h\u0101ngai tonu ana, me k\u012B, ki ng\u0101 mahi, ki ng\u0101 whakahaere, ki ng\u0101 whare, ki ng\u0101 momo \u0101whina \u0101-whare nei, ki te Kapu o te Ao; kaua ki te hunga m\u0101takitaki; kaua ki te hunga t\u0101karo; kaua ki te hunga tautoko, ar\u0101 me k\u012B, ko te hunga e tautoko nei i te kapu. Ko te raru k\u0113, ka titiro te pire nei ki ng\u0101 mea, me k\u012B, whakahaere, ar\u0101, p\u0113nei i te mahi unu waipiro. N\u014D reira ka hoki mai ki t\u0113r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKo te mea tuarua, p\u0113nei i t\u0101 \u0113tahi atu o ng\u0101 mema e k\u012B nei, ko te mahi o t\u0113nei pire he whakat\u016B i t\u0113tahi mana whakahaere me k\u012B, ar\u0101, te Rugby World Cup Authority. He r\u014Dp\u016B, ko t\u0101na mahi he whakaae, he whakah\u0113 r\u0101nei i \u0113tahi tono m\u014D \u0113tahi whakahaere i roto i te Kapu. Ko te mate k\u0113, p\u0113nei i t\u0101 \u0113tahi atu o ng\u0101 mema e k\u012B nei, t\u014Dna mutunga mai ka whakamanahia te tangata kotahi. Ko te Minita t\u0113r\u0101 i t\u014Dna mutunga mai. N\u014D reira kei te \u0101hua noho rangirua tonu m\u0101tau ki t\u0113r\u0101 \u0101huatanga, m\u0113n\u0101 ka riro m\u0101 te Minita i t\u014Dna kotahi e whakamana, e whakah\u0113 r\u0101nei i \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 mea ka whakahaeretia \u0101 te w\u0101 o te Kapu o te Ao. Ka mutu, kei te noho \u0101hua manawap\u0101 tonu te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i te mea, k\u0101ore te Minita m\u014D ng\u0101 Take M\u0101ori e kitea ana, e rangona ana r\u0101nei hei mema m\u014D t\u0113r\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B, t\u0113r\u0101 k\u0101hui, ar\u0101 m\u014D te authority nei. Ko t\u0101 m\u0101tau \u0101 te w\u0101 ka k\u014Drerohia wh\u0101nuitia i roto i te select committee, he whakatakoto i \u0113tahi k\u014Drero ki te k\u012B atu me p\u0113r\u0101, me noho t\u0113tahi w\u0101hanga m\u014D te Minita m\u014D ng\u0101 Take M\u0101ori ki reira. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u0101, ka huri atu an\u014D r\u0101 ki te \u0101huatanga o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero o te mema a Mr David Clendon m\u014D t\u0113nei mea te waipiro. Kai te tika t\u0101na, kai te \u0101hua noho rangirua tonu te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori m\u014D ng\u0101 whakahaere m\u014D t\u0113nei mea m\u014D te tuku whakaaetanga, me k\u012B, m\u014D te waipiro. N\u0101, anei au e p\u0101tai nei i te p\u0101tai, he aha te take ko te nuinga o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u014D te Kapu o te Ao e h\u0101ngai tonu ana ki t\u0113nei mea te waipiro? Ar\u0101, m\u014D te unu pia, m\u014D te unu waipiro r\u0101nei, \u0113r\u0101 momo \u0101huatanga katoa. Ko t\u0113nei pire, an\u0101, koinei t\u0101na mahi, he k\u014Drero m\u014D te waipiro kaua m\u014D ng\u0101 take nui me k\u012B. N\u014D reira he take nui t\u0113r\u0101 hei k\u014Drero m\u0101 t\u0101tau i te mea, ka hoki ng\u0101 mahara ki t\u0113nei tangata i roto i a au o Te Waiariki o roto o Tauranga Moana ki te Arataki Rugby Sports Club. Ko t\u014Dna ingoa ko Greg Doolan. E ai ki t\u0101ku e m\u014Dhio nei, i noho ia hei kaiwhakahaere m\u014D ng\u0101 kaitohutohu o ng\u0101 t\u012Bma o roto o Arataki. N\u0101, i whakaae ia ki te haere ki reira hei kaitohutohu m\u014D te t\u012Bma o Arataki m\u0113n\u0101 ka noho w\u0101tea t\u0113r\u0101 karapu i te waipiro. N\u014D reira he tuatahitanga t\u0113r\u0101 i roto o ng\u0101 karapu whutup\u014Dro o Aotearoa. N\u0101, t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero t\u0113r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKei te m\u014Dhio tonu t\u0101tau, ko te mahi o ng\u0101 kamupene hoko waipiro, he whiwhi moni, he whaiwhai haere i t\u0113nei mea te moni. Ko te mate k\u0113, kua k\u014Drerohia wh\u0101nuitia e t\u0101tau i roto i t\u0113nei Whare ng\u0101 kino ka puta i te waipiro, ar\u0101, ng\u0101 aitua i runga i te rori, ng\u0101 whawhai t\u0113tahi ki t\u0113tahi, ar\u0101, te mahi wairangi a \u0113tahi haurangi ki \u0113tahi, m\u0113n\u0101 ka whaiwhai haere i t\u0113nei mea te waipiro. Engari, p\u0113nei i t\u0101 David Clendon e k\u014Drero nei, t\u014Dna mutunga mai, \u0113, ka raruraru \u0113tahi. N\u014D reira, ko t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero t\u0113r\u0101. Ka mutu, e harikoa ana i te mea, kei reira tonu \u0113tahi here kia kaua w\u0113tahi e whaiwhai haere i t\u0113r\u0101 \u0101huatanga, ar\u0101, te haurangi. N\u014D reira, \u0101hua pai tonu t\u0113r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKua kite atu, ar\u0101 n\u014D ng\u0101 wh\u0101inga nui, me k\u012B, ng\u0101 utu nui ka noho hapa ki t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire, n\u014D reira, ka pai t\u0113r\u0101. Me p\u0113r\u0101 i te mea, kai te haramai ng\u0101 manuhiri i t\u0101w\u0101hi, ar\u0101, te Barmy Army. He aha t\u0101 r\u0101tau mahi? Taku m\u014Dhio he mahi haurangi. N\u014D reira, me t\u016Bpato t\u0101tau i te mea, m\u0113n\u0101 ka tae mai, kei noho raruraru t\u0101tau n\u0101 ng\u0101 mahi nanakia, n\u0101 ng\u0101 mahi porohaurangi a w\u0113tahi i t\u0101 r\u0101tau taenga mai. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira hei kupu whakamutunga m\u0101ku, k\u0101ore an\u014D t\u0113tahi kia k\u014Drero i t\u0113nei take engari, me p\u0113nei rawa te k\u014Drero kua whakaingoatia a Julian Savea hei Junior Player of the Year i t\u0113nei tau tonu nei m\u014D te IRB. K\u0101tahi nei t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero ka tae mai. N\u014D reira me mihi ki a ia, me mihi r\u0101 ki \u014D t\u0101tau Junior World Champions i Argentina, inatata nei. N\u014D reira me whakanui t\u0101tau i t\u0113r\u0101 \u0101huatanga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira k\u0101ti, kua roa t\u0113nei, ko t\u0101ku ko te k\u012B atu, \u0101e, ka tautoko te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i t\u0113nei, n\u0101 runga i te aha? N\u0101 runga i te mea kua noho a Aotearoa kei ng\u0101 taumata o te whutup\u014Dro, me tautoko ka tika i t\u0113nei w\u0101. Ki te kore t\u0113tahi \u0101huatanga h\u014Du e puta mai, t\u0113r\u0101 pea ka whai atu ki t\u014Dna mutunga. N\u014D reira huri noa, kia ora t\u0101tau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Speaker, and to all of us in the House gathered here tonight to debate this bill before us, the Rugby World Cup 2011 (Empowering) Bill, dealing with the event that takes place next year. The country is well aware of the obsession that M\u0101ori have over rugby. M\u0101ori have been keen followers of rugby for a long time, and at this very moment a hundred years of M\u0101ori rugby are being celebrated in the country. Last Friday the New Zealand M\u0101ori team reached the pinnacle of all pinnacles, by defeating Ireland. Oh, yes! My home town of Rotorua was swamped by people and M\u0101ori. They were proud of how well the M\u0101ori team triumphed over the visitors from Ireland. Tomorrow the team will arrive in Hawke\u2019s Bay to do battle with England, where it will be seen whether the M\u0101ori team is a great or special one\u2014whatever it is. But one can only hope. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EOver the past years numerous M\u0101ori have achieved at all levels. Let us take the member Paul Quinn, for example. He achieved captaincy of the M\u0101ori team. Some M\u0101ori team captains became All Black captains, as well. The Labour member might well be right but nevertheless a champion\u2014yes, a champion. One such captain was Buck Shelford, who became a captain of the national side, as did T\u0101ne Norton, Taine Randell, and others who reached that level of captaincy of the All Blacks for this country. So the real basis of my speech is to highlight the commitment of M\u0101ori to rugby. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAt this stage of the bill, at its first reading, the M\u0101ori Party supports it. Some of us may not have heard what Leith Comer, the Chief Executive of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, said when he stated that the commitment of M\u0101ori to rugby was not unlike that of the 28th Battalion, the M\u0101ori Battalion, when it served overseas. One team served on the battlefield, the other on the playing field. Both the M\u0101ori rugby team and the 28th M\u0101ori Battalion are causes that we should celebrate in New Zealand. So rugby brings us together. This is a general introduction to begin my contribution as I return to this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ELike those who spoke before me, I agree without reservation that benefits will accrue from the Rugby World Cup for New Zealand. But the problem with the bill from our perspective is that the focus is on operations, administration, buildings, and assistance with accommodation related to the event; it is not about spectators, players, and supporters of the cup. The real problem is that this bill looks at factors that affect crowd control, like alcohol consumption. But I will come back to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe second point, which has been raised by other members, is that this bill establishes a controlling entity, the Rugby World Cup Authority. Its role is to endorse or reject business initiatives to be run in tandem with the Rugby World Cup. The problem, as alluded to by other members, is that one person becomes empowered, and ultimately that will be the Minister. We are in two minds over the fact that the Minister makes the final decisions over matters pertaining to the World Cup. Further to that, the M\u0101ori Party is somewhat concerned that the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs is invisible, or appears to have no role, in that entity, the administrative body or the Rugby World Cup Authority. We will pursue that issue widely during the select committee process, to ensure that the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs becomes part of the controlling authority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI turn my attention now to the implications raised by the member David Clendon relating to alcohol. He is right. The M\u0101ori Party is somewhat concerned about allowing the consumption of alcohol. Now, I ask myself, why is most of the talk about the Rugby World Cup related to alcohol? Why is it about drinking beer and all the other alcoholic beverages? This bill is all about that\u2014about alcohol consumption\u2014and not about the real issues, for heaven\u2019s sake. It is important for us to comment on that, because I recall a person from Tauranga, within my Waiariki electorate, from the Arataki Sports Club. I understand that he managed the coaches of Arataki Sports Club\u2019s rugby teams. His name was Greg Doolan. My understanding is that he agreed to become head coach of rugby at Arataki Sports Club if the club became alcohol-free. This is a real first for rugby clubs in New Zealand. That is that story. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe all know that alcohol outlets retail alcohol, make a living from their sales, and pursue avenues to ensure turnover. Problems with alcohol have been raised many times in this House: problems like road accidents, fighting, and senseless acts while under the influence of alcohol. But as David Clendon said, some of us will get into trouble. That is the story. None the less I am glad there are controls there to deal with problems around alcohol. That is somewhat reassuring. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI notice that a major emphasis in this bill is placed on the huge potential costs from those actions, which is good. It must be so, because the \u201CBarmy Army\u201D is coming from overseas. From my knowledge, all that they do is get drunk. So we must be wary, because they might come and cause trouble with their mischievous and drunken antics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, no one has spoken about this, but it has just come to my attention that Julian Savea has been named as this year\u2019s International Rugby Board junior player of the year. I commend him and our junior world champions, who won that title in Argentina just recently. We should celebrate that event, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI will end here. This contribution has already been too long. Yes, the M\u0101ori Party endorses this bill, but why? Because of New Zealand\u2019s lofty status in rugby, it is appropriate that we support it at this point in time. If nothing new emerges, we will more than likely pursue this to its conclusion. Thank you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u002295d822b0a422476291d650e90ac1e235\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295d822b0a422476291d650e90ac1e235\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me a great deal of pleasure to speak in support of the first reading of the Rugby World Cup 2011 (Empowering) Bill. It has been fascinating sitting on this side of the House and listening to a certain amount of diatribe from colleagues across the floor on issues around running elections. If we think about how well they structured the last election we know that, yes, they know all about running elections!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThe point about this bill is that we must have a successful Rugby World Cup. It is really important for New Zealand, it is really important for our global brand, and it is really important for our economy. We can expect somewhere between 70,000 and 85,000 visitors over a 6-week period. More important, something like 4 billion people will watch matches over that 6-week period. We want to showcase New Zealand. It is our opportunity to show the world what a great place this country is. This bill will make the Rugby World Cup a success because it will allow temporary streamlining of Government regulatory processes to ensure that the tournament and the many activities around it that we will support can be organised and managed really effectively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThat is incredibly important. Despite comments from my Green colleague David Clendon and from Labour colleagues about the ease with which resource consents can be procured for things like marquees, I have to tell them that that is not the case. I have constituents in Masterton who want to erect temporary marquee-type structures to grow vegetables in. After 3 years they still do not have their consents, because of the complications of the processes that we have inherited from the last 9 years of Labour Government. Some of that stuff is an absolute nonsense, and we cannot afford to have that sort of restriction in the lead-up to an event of the size of the forthcoming Rugby World Cup. The hosting requirements of a spectacle of this scale present really big challenges, so it is crucial that we have special legislation that is set up so that the event is a success, and to make sure that we maximise the opportunities that the event presents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThe Rugby World Cup will be the largest event ever held in New Zealand\u2014the largest event ever held in this country. This bill is necessary because the existing regulatory approval processes are not sufficient to cater for the extraordinary requirements of a tournament of this scale. This is due to their long time frames, which, despite the advice from our Green colleague, have to be either endured or moved to one side. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThe point of this legislation is to establish a Rugby World Cup consenting authority, which will support existing regulatory regimes by accommodating the extraordinary requirements of this tournament, which New Zealand will be hosting. This authority will offer an expeditious alternative to the existing processes, which are simply not adequate. The bill will provide for a temporary structure and a single regime for determining, for example, Rugby World Cup liquor licences. The police, I have to say, support the single regime. It will give the police greater powers of enforcement of liquor-licensing provisions, and will shorten the process for enforcement authorities to suspend and revoke licences. No urgent consent requirements, such as road closures, can be considered without a recommendation from the Rugby World Cup authority and without consultation with the Ministers responsible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThere is a precedent, of course, for this type of legislation, and those of us who, like me, are interested in yachting will remember the America\u2019s Cup, which was held in Auckland. That was an extremely successful event. This bill, which is going to the Government Administration Committee, will establish the consenting authority, and will empower it to consider applications for regulatory approvals that would otherwise be necessary for activities that are reasonably necessary for the proper conduct of the event and the tests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThe bill also includes two provisions to deal with urgent applications or unforeseen approvals during the Rugby World Cup. It is inevitable that some things that people have overlooked will crop up at the last minute. So, on the recommendation of the authority, the Minister may, firstly, ask the Governor-General to prescribe Rugby World Cup permitted activities by an Order in Council during the period 1 July 2011 to 31 October 2011 only\u2014so it is a very short period of time. Secondly, the legislation proposes to grant urgent approvals during the tournament window only. That will be from 9 September through to 25 October. Both powers will be exercised only at the recommendation of the authority, and will require consultation with responsible portfolio Ministers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EI think this legislation is providing a lot of common sense. This event will make a huge impact on our communities. Even as I speak, the ex - Mayor of Masterton, Bob Francis, a wonderful man and chair of our district health board, with a lifetime as a referee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222077b42283f34ec392665b047ea79c03\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Very good referee in his day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb17a3bfb6b64256a0dc5f15a119d9fa\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014that is exactly right; he is an excellent referee\u2014is across in Argentina, selecting referees for the competition. A huge amount of work is going on. We in Masterton, for 2 weeks, will get one of the teams to host. That is really great. There is tremendous interest in rugby in my electorate, and I think the Rugby World Cup will really excite and engage our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EAs I said earlier, this event is the third-largest sporting event in the world. We will have huge television audiences, and I want my electorate and all of New Zealand to be written about in a really good way, so that we give tremendous additional benefit to the marketing of our main products, like dairy products, meat, and wool. To do that, we have to be really organised so that we can provide time-critical consents for this event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EWith those few words, I say that I look forward to this legislation going to our committee. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9f83cfe91c140779df54a37b7a27da5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9f83cfe91c140779df54a37b7a27da5\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E My colleagues have set out pretty clearly Labour\u2019s position on the Rugby World Cup 2011 (Empowering) Bill\u2014that we will support it being referred to the Government Administration Committee. But we think a number of issues in the bill deserve debate and analysis in the select committee, and also deserve public debate, I think. I will go into some of those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EBut, first, I want to say what an incredibly exciting event this will be for New Zealand, and not just because of the considerable potential economic benefit for the country as a result of the tournament. I do not know whether members saw an interview on the news the other night with Bishop Desmond Tutu. He was interviewed by a British journalist as he was walking away from a soccer game in South Africa that was part of the Football World Cup. The journalist asked him what he thought of the fact that South Africa was spending millions of dollars on that tournament when it was suffering the most appalling poverty, an HIV/Aids epidemic, and so on. Bishop Tutu, in his inimitable way, said that it was not about the economic benefits, and that it was not about the money; it was about an experience that made people realise they were part of something that was bigger and better. It was about the indefinable sort of thing that lifts us out of our daily lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI think the Rugby World Cup will be an amazing fiesta of football and an opportunity for us to play host, as people have said, to 70,000\u2014some estimates are even up to 85,000\u2014international visitors. It really is a hugely exciting opportunity. The prospect of this event and its sheer scale\u2014the biggest event of this kind that New Zealand has ever hosted, and perhaps ever will\u2014raise some very interesting policy challenges for the Government that I want to talk about. It is set out in the explanatory note of the bill and in the regulatory impact statement that the purpose of the bill is to provide a time-limited, parallel consenting authority, to ensure that Rugby World Cup - related activities\u2014the construction of certain buildings and certain areas where people will gather, liquor licensing, road closures, all the sorts of things that may need to happen, all the festivities\u2014can be carried out smoothly. That temporary consenting authority is needed to ensure that all those things that are necessary for a successful event are not allowed to fall foul of current arrangements and current regulatory processes, which are mostly carried out by territorial local authorities. I think Labour accepts that that case has been made, and that the bill is an exercise in risk management. There is too much at stake for the country for us to allow regulatory mechanisms to let down the planning and organisation that will go into this event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EMy colleague Grant Robertson outlined some of the thinking that went into this process that is covered in the regulatory impact statement, and the discussion of possible alternatives. The regulatory impact statement states that the bill needs to be flexible enough to respond to unforeseen consenting requirements to do with the Rugby World Cup, but it needs to avoid undermining the integrity of the underlying regime\u2014that is, the Sale of Liquor Act, the Resource Management Act, and so on\u2014for activities that are not urgent, that are not unforeseen, or that are unrelated to the staging of the Rugby World Cup. Mr Robertson discussed a couple of the alternatives that were considered before the preferred option was settled on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI will direct most of my comments to the question of liquor licensing, because it is one of the key provisions in the bill. It is an area that I think should be subject to open and vigorous public debate, because some really sensitive trade-offs are to be made between the success of the event and minimisation of harm and minimisation of a negative impact on the neighbourhoods and communities where supporters and fans of the Rugby World Cup will gather. Under the bill, special liquor licences can be given out for the period from 9 September until 31 October. These licences will replace existing licences over that period, and will allow the bars to extend their size and their hours of operation. They also allow that authority to set certain limits around the type of alcohol, the size of drinks sold, and so on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI note that the Legislation Design Committee, when it reviewed the early draft of this legislation, noted that the setting up of the special liquor licensing authority was inconsistent with the findings of the Law Commission\u2019s report, which was called Alcohol in Our Lives: Curbing the Harm. The Ministry of Economic Development subsequently commented that that was irrelevant because the Law Commission\u2019s report was not yet Government policy. I want to explore that for a moment. I believe that there is developing consensus in this country about the need for us to tackle the culture of binge drinking and the social harm that is caused by the way we drink. I believe that agreement is forming that the easy availability of liquor in our communities due to the very liberal licensing regime, which allows, in some places, 24-hour alcohol purchasing and very, very late closing hours, is linked to a lot of the social harm we see. We should not, I think, trivialise or minimise the importance of the Law Commission\u2019s report. It was 2 years of work, there were 3,000 submissions, and the overwhelming majority of those submissions were for a tightening of the laws around access to liquor, and that included tighter opening hours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIt is significant that the police initially opposed the provisions in this bill. They said that the Sale of Liquor Act was perfectly capable of dealing with what was needed. If I am not wrong, the time frames in the Sale of Liquor Act are identical or very similar to the time frames in this bill. One of the main parts of this bill states that it is not about changing the criteria for consenting; it is about changing the time frames just to expedite the process. Actually, in relation to liquor licensing, this bill has the potential to significantly change not just the time frames but the actual outcomes in terms of liquor licensing. The scenario is that, for the purposes of putting on the best possible event and providing hospitality, our norms and rules around liquor licensing will be thrown to the winds, and for the period of the Rugby World Cup we will see a much more liberalised regime, which could result in significant public harm. I think that is something the select committee will have to address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWhat is the risk? The risk, I think, is that a much more liberal approach for the purposes of the Rugby World Cup could lead to a slackening of the rules around serving minors and the consequences if the operators of venues break those rules. Similarly, that could be the case if the rules are slackened in respect of serving intoxicated people and the use of promotions and happy hours. If rogue operators are operating currently with highly restricted licences, will they, under this regime, be able to get a special Rugby World Cup licence that will loosen those restrictions? I think all these things should be the subject of public debate. The question is to what extent we are prepared to open the door to much more liberalised liquor laws for a defined period in a way that is out of step with the way community sentiment is going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EFinally, I would say that the balance has to be struck very carefully. We saw the Minister for the Rugby World Cup side with Heineken, the sponsor, over the debate around plastic versus cans, and I hope that is not repeated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u002286a2e93f894c4e7795dc875804f351e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286a2e93f894c4e7795dc875804f351e4\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E It is great to see the way that a certain tournament in South Africa with a rather oddly shaped ball is whetting the appetite for sporting tournaments around the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f4d2ce5dfec4ae4a92182d070e71863\u0022\u003EH V Ross Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a round ball; it\u2019s a good shape.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c88f6c69b6c740f98035f54a70f458e0\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: It is a rather unusually shaped ball that is being kicked around in South Africa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EWe are looking forward to the tournament that will be here next year. I am very pleased to see a number of members of the Parliamentary Rugby Team represented in the Chamber tonight. We are building up for that parallel tournament, which will rage between the various Parliaments around the world as we seek not to defend but to win again the Parliamentary Rugby World Cup. People will know that before then, of course, on 11 September the Parliamentary Rugby Team will take on a mayoral fifteen in Wanganui. All sorts of people are coming out of the woodwork to have a crack at the captain of the other team. I look forward to seeing Steve Chadwick and Amy Adams locking in our scrum. I look forward to the celebration that will follow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EOnly a couple of Saturday nights ago I was at New Plymouth, at Yarrow Stadium supporting our Taranaki All Blacks, as we did a bit of a dry run in preparation for the Rugby World Cup. We went over the security measures, and the alcohol measures the previous speaker, my colleague Phil Twyford, has just been speaking about. It is true that we need to get a number of our ducks in a row in preparation for this celebratory event. We have done that through the Justice and Electoral Committee, for instance. We have processed the Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill and we have foreseen the problems that will arise and the security measures we need to have in tow. The Rugby World Cup 2011 (Empowering) Bill will take account of the changes we will have to make to the way we do business in tourism in this country to account for the changing culture that has occurred over the last 23 or 24 years since we last had a Rugby World Cup here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI just carry on from what the previous speaker was saying and note that the way we do alcohol in this country has changed significantly. The previous Rugby World Cup came under legislation that was prior to the 1989 Sale of Liquor Act, and all the changes and amendments that have occurred since then have sought to account for changes in hours, changes in availability, changes in access, changes to the actual alcohol we are drinking, the levels of alcohol we are taking in per drink, the way people and the police are responding to that, and the way the rest of society has responded. So it is no surprise that we need to put some permissions, allowances, and tolerances in place to make sure that as the excitement builds and the expectations rise in respect of this tournament, it is seen only as a celebration and there are no big regrets afterwards, which could well happen if things get out of hand and if restrictions are too tight, or too loose, and people get hurt in the celebration of this wonderful event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003ESo we look forward to seeing this bill progress through the House. We are grateful for the support it has received across the debating chamber, and we look forward to the debate within the select committee process. We know we need to move speedily on this; not so speedily as to be negligent but speedily enough to maintain caution and to be circumspect about those things that will impact on this event being a truly memorable one for rugby lovers around the world. And what a privilege it is that it will be hosted in our country. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u00229b5bf923f8a145aea1235c800669383c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b5bf923f8a145aea1235c800669383c\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I have just received a text from my brother. He said we should not be wasting our time on the Rugby World Cup (Empowering) Bill; instead, we should be legislating to make sure the All Blacks do not lose. I tend to agree with him. We are a family that still has not got over New Zealand losing to the 1971 Lions, let alone losing the 2007 quarter-final in Cardiff. My daughter rubbed salt in the wound the other day when I was going off at Wayne Barnes refereeing the All Blacks versus Ireland test. I do not know how he slunk into the country, but he got here, and I hope he slunk out. I said I hope he does not think that sending off that Irish No. 8 in the 10th minute will in any way compensate for his horrible display of refereeing back in Cardiff in 2007. My daughter said to me: \u201CDad, it\u2019s just a game. Get over it.\u201D I said to her: \u201CI\u2019m sorry but you must be adopted, because it\u2019s genetically impossible for the Davis family to get over an All Black loss.\u201D It is too hard to get over the 1971 loss to the Lions, which should have been an epic send-off for Colin Meads in his 55th and final test match. We are still cut up about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI come back to the kaupapa of the moment, which is the Rugby World Cup 2011 (Empowering) Bill. Labour supports the bill going to the Government Administration Committee for scrutiny. It is important that we ensure there are no unintended consequences of the legislation. I want to talk from a tourism perspective, as I am Labour\u2019s spokesperson on tourism. We will have 65,000 people arriving on our shores for a 6-week period. I have heard the figure of 85,000 tourists being bandied around, but I have been assured by people in the tourism sector that the number is more likely to be 65,000. We should not get our hopes up that the Rugby World Cup will be the greatest thing for all communities across New Zealand. If we take Whangarei as an example, I think we have Tonga, Japan, and Canada playing up there. Those three teams on their own will not drag in thousands upon thousands of tourists. Tourism operations up there should not be expecting all their Christmases to come at once. The teams will be there for a very short period of time, and not many fans are expected in some of those smaller, outlying areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EHaving said that, the Rugby World Cup is the greatest event to touch down in New Zealand. Hopefully, there will be other Rugby World Cups and other great sporting events, but for the foreseeable future it is the big event. It is important that we have the facilities, the services, the venues, and the transport systems up and running so that the expectations of the 65,000 tourists who arrive here will not be dashed. But the 65,000 tourists are not the group of people whom we need to be most concerned about; of most concern are the 3,000 media personnel who will be here to cover the games. Midweek, when they are not covering the games, they will be out and about, recording thousands and thousands of hours of footage around the country. The newspaper reporters will be writing articles about New Zealand. It is really important that the people whom they film and write about are having the best times of their lives, and that we have the facilities and the legislation to support the expectations of all those rugby tourists, so that when they all head back home they will talk to their families and their friends about the great time they had in New Zealand, and, hopefully, everybody they speak to will make the decision to come to New Zealand post the Rugby World Cup. It is the thousands of hours of footage that will be the most important thing for New Zealand. Hopefully, we will not have just a 65,000-person spike for 6 weeks in October 2011; we will build on that so that tourists come here over the next 10 to 15 years as a result of what they have seen of New Zealand and as a result of the excellent experiences their families and friends had while they were here. It is important that we keep in perspective the numbers of people who will come to New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EWe have to make sure that we have legislation in place to support the event. As has been mentioned in the House, we do not know what we do not know. Unforeseen events or circumstances could occur, and we do not want to be scrambling around at the last second trying to put legislation in place or, even worse, to not have legislation in place. We do not want to get bogged down in quicksand trying to make decisions at the last second, with the result that the expectations of the people who come here from overseas are let down. So this legislation is really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThere are six parts to the legislation. Part 1 talks about the definitions within the bill, and Part 2 establishes the Rugby World Cup Authority. It is really important that we have proper preparation for the Rugby World Cup. We need to ensure that the arrangements are efficient and safe, and done lawfully; that the delivery of services for the Rugby World Cup is exceptional; and that the safety of the individuals coming here is paramount\u2014not only the safety of those individuals but the security of their property. We need to have legislation in place to ensure that occurs. We also need to be mindful of the effect on the environment. We cannot allow this temporary legislation to have long-term impacts on the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EOf course, we have to maximise the benefits of the Rugby World Cup to New Zealand. Again, I come back to what I have been saying about tourism being our second-biggest export earner. At present, $50 million a day is spent in New Zealand on tourism, and we expect that with 65,000 people turning up here in a very short space of time, that spend will increase. One in 10 New Zealanders is employed in tourism, and we need to make sure that the Rugby World Cup and this legislation support tourism, and we need to make sure that everybody has an exceptional time when they come here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI take the points that my colleague Phil Twyford made about the liquor legislation. It is important that in liberalising the liquor laws for a very short time we do not set a precedent that makes it difficult for us to wind back the clock, and creates other unintended consequences. Part 3 sets out the scope of the applications that may be made and how they are to be lodged with the Rugby World Cup Authority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EPart 4 gives the Minister certain powers to enable unforeseen matters of urgency to be dealt with, both in the final preparation stages of the World Cup and during it. As Te Ururoa Flavell said in M\u0101ori, ultimately this means there is one person in charge who has the final say. We have to be careful that there is not abuse of that power. Part 5 provides a temporary process for licensing the sale and supply of liquor during the Rugby World Cup. Part 6 includes further miscellaneous provisions. Missing is Part 7, which legislates for the All Blacks to win. While we are at it, we should also legislate so that the All Whites do not lose against Paraguay on Friday morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe Rugby World Cup will be the most exciting event to hit New Zealand\u2019s shores. It is a pity that we have made this debate one of the most boring debates in history. We should legislate for the All Blacks to win. I remember that fateful day in Dublin in 1991 when Tim Horan flipped a miracle pass to David Campese, who dotted it down, and we lost all chance of getting into the finals. We lost the semi-final, and that was the day we ceased being world champions. That thick black cloud is hovering over us to this very day. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00221fbce0115e894d9ca37df7793338995a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fbce0115e894d9ca37df7793338995a\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E If Mr Davis had finished at the 5-minute mark, that speech might have been one of the finest of the day. We may come from different ends of the political spectrum, but in matters relating to the pain of loss and certain referees, including Mr Barnes, we have much more in common than I thought. My pain goes back to 1967, when the great man was sent from the field at Murrayfield; I was the ripe old age of about 18 months. I do not think Mr Kelleher from Ireland has entered New Zealand since.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EMembers have spoken about the Rugby World Cup as being the largest event in the world in 2011. I was particularly interested in Mr Clendon\u2019s comments in respect of whether we actually need this legislation. He said that we had \u201Csignificant experience\u201D in running events of this type\u2014in particular, rugby event. I do not think that I agree with that comment. Casting my mind back to 1987, I remember I was playing premier rugby here in Wellington for Western Suburbs when the 1987 Rugby World Cup took place. The amateur nature of rugby was very evident in the organising committee of the Rugby World Cup. I notice that we will need 7,000 volunteers for the 2011 Rugby World Cup, which is probably more than the amount that attended many of those games. The ceremony was a very perfunctory affair: a few speeches and a kick-off. I think it was on a Wednesday, in fact, and then everybody went home and did what they did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI think we will see a completely different event next year, beyond the scope and scale of anything we have seen in the past. We are getting a little bit of an insight into it by watching the FIFA World Cup in South Africa. I think the more relevant one was the 2006 FIFA World Cup in Germany, where in Berlin they turned the magnificent area of the plaza that led up to the Brandenburg Gate into a virtual tent city, or marquee city, of events and big screens so that the fans of each country could watch the events. There were probably quite a few licensed premises in that place as well. It was a terrific success. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI also pick up on the caveat from Mr Clendon and Mr Twyford about the issues around liquor licensing and legislation. It seems to me in first reading that many of the concerns that are expressed by those members have been addressed in the Rugby World Cup 2011 (Empowering) Bill. It talks about the need to be eligible to hold an on-licence before one can even apply for a special licence. The right to object is still evident, and substantially all the requirements of the Sale of Liquor Act still exist under this bill. This bill seems to turbocharge the consenting and Sale of Liquor Act licensing process at a very appropriate time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EMr Mallard said that we do not know what we do not know; I think only now are we starting to understand what opportunities exist to market the country, to market business, and to market tourism around this magnificent event. It will be necessary with places like \u014C\u0101maru and Masterton to perhaps at reasonably short notice pick up on opportunities and not be arbitrarily slowed down by consenting or licensing processes, albeit that they still need to be done at a reasonable and fair way within the existing constraints of the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI look forward to the speedy passage of the bill. I certainly look forward to the captain of the All Blacks holding aloft the Rugby World Cup in October next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229ec9efb10ec641ef98fe180d8f17a8ac\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Rugby World Cup 2011 (Empowering) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 113\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000617\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Government Administration Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e935a2d97d694e1a9f7916f6abfe7ee4\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c5c082e35fda49bc85ad8e0b6ec95366\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0b59030b8e346a18e82df0901c2b1b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0b59030b8e346a18e82df0901c2b1b6\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Following discussion at the Business Committee earlier today, I seek leave for the House to sit on the ringing of the bell on Tuesday, 29 June 2010.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261054af5d73a44ab8defc73e055935ef\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022da4716461dd54da5bdb9d72649c3c507\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002263c7f16c6d8f4d9080a09ebe43be02f3\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac2db272e54e424ba7403512d9d4a5d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac2db272e54e424ba7403512d9d4a5d2\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Further to a Business Committee decision today, I seek leave for the bills divided from the Statutes Amendment Bill at the Committee of the whole House to be set down for third reading forthwith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252d30daa411546088e2612db2a8fe481\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223383a9664d9b4544b90ea0ec37eea277\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002259fc2fd7093c4f6da428c2950c9aba05\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee132fdd40524f5c91d0fd156aac02ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee132fdd40524f5c91d0fd156aac02ae\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That urgency be accorded the second reading and remaining stages of the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill and any bills into which that bill may be divided; the passing through all stages of the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill and the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill; the second reading and remaining stages of the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill; the interrupted first reading of the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill; the second reading and remaining stages of the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill; the second readings of the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill and the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill; the Committee stage and third reading of the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill; and the second reading of the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESome weeks ago I advised the Business Committee that in this week we would be likely to put the House into urgency to consider a number of bills that were on the Order Paper and that needed to make progress in order to meet a 1 July implementation date. The list that I have just read out was circulated to all parties earlier in the week, and I understand that although parties will not necessarily support the Government taking urgency, there is considerable support for most of the bills that are in this urgency motion. One of the problems that the House faces is the limited hours that we have to deal with legislation, and successive Government have wrestled with this. I have put a motion on the Order Paper that may or may not be considered by the House at some time to create some extra space. But in the meantime it has been my hope that the Business Committee itself may be able to take a stronger role in deciding which bills might progress through urgency motions of this nature. So without prejudice to the Government\u2019s right to take urgency for any matter that sees fit, I think that having a greater discussion about some of these things and better notification will allow for the proper debate that the House should have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002277e5966bf52d449cb550ff7a6053c703\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That urgency be accorded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 69\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 43; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eb58c56661474a88bcb5d279cdcca6dc\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cefc060995824d02933e47a48b465e3a\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab62da110cb749d2b13d17b9379d01f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab62da110cb749d2b13d17b9379d01f8\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for there to be a question time at 2 p.m. on Wednesday, 23 June and on Thursday, 24 June 2010, and for questions to be lodged in the normal manner pursuant to Standing Order 372, notwithstanding the fact that the House is in urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265d64edd3c1f4e5a9a730f3d0214a474\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022791cf21baf6f4224b1a7c9f2219d993a\u0022\u003EFinancial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002227f622fdc25948428bddd53f40c67634\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb45a64d32844ff4b139e55cea7e777e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb45a64d32844ff4b139e55cea7e777e\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Minister of Internal Affairs) on behalf of the Minister of Commerce:\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill be now read a second time. I would like to begin by thanking the members of the Commerce Committee for their thorough examination of this bill, including their extensive consultation with stakeholders. I am confident that the proposed amendments to the Financial Advisers Act and the Financial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Act will go a long way towards simplifying compliance for business, particularly in the lower-risk areas, while providing high levels of protection for retail consumers and, indeed, investors. That is vital if we wish to give effect to the Government\u2019s goal of increasing the level of confidence in New Zealand\u2019s financial markets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe bill contains many technical amendments to the Financial Advisers Act and the Financial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Act that will provide greater clarity for both investors and the industry as a whole. The bill narrows the scope of the Financial Advisers Act, to apply it only to persons who provide financial adviser services in their ordinary course of business, and to persons who provide advice in the course of providing another financial service. It excludes financial advice that is provided incidentally to the provision of other services. This focuses the regime on those persons who are generally understood to be financial advisers. Furthermore, the scope of the definition of \u201Cfinancial advice\u201D has been clarified. Therefore, advice on the procedure for requiring and disposing of financial products will not be caught by the provisions of this legislation. Similarly, broad statements about classes of products, such as: \u201CKiwiSaver is a good product.\u201D, will be outside the regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAnother key clarification has been made to the definition of \u201Cfinancial planning services\u201D, which are now termed \u201Cinvestment planning services.\u201D The amendment proposed to this definition by the Commerce Committee clarifies that this term is focused on investment planning. It also clarifies that advisers who work only with category 2 products, such as mortgage or insurance products, or advisers who work for a qualifying financial entity and sell that entity\u2019s products, can deliver a professional level of service and comply with the regime without needing to be authorised. However, such advisers will still be able to voluntarily become authorised financial advisers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EBoth the Financial Advisers Act and the Financial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Act have also been made more flexible, by adding a number of regulation-making powers. The Securities Commission can now provide limited exemptions from the obligations of financial advisers. However, the Minister of Commerce does not expect the commission to consider exemptions for every individual adviser who does not consider himself or herself to be the true target of the regime. He expects the commission to focus on exemptions for classes of persons for whom the cost of compliance with certain obligations would be unreasonable or unjustified. These new flexibility mechanisms are important to ensure that the regime can adapt with the market and imposes obligations that are proportionate to the risk created by different services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAnother group of amendments relate to the regime\u2019s application to wholesale services where customers either have the necessary sophistication in financial matters or have sufficient bargaining power to look after their own interests. The challenge is to ensure a balance between minimising the unnecessary regulation of those who deal with wholesale customers, and preventing mum and dad investors from falling into the wholesale category by accident or through manipulation by unscrupulous advisers. The bill\u2019s proposal to combine a number of wholesale client categories with a self-certification opt-out provision, with appropriate protections against misuse, delivers what the Minister believes is the required balance. Financial advisers who deal exclusively with wholesale customers will now be exempt from the obligations to be individually authorised to make disclosure, to belong to an approved dispute resolution scheme, and to adhere to the code of professional conduct for authorised financial advisers. However, the obligation to act with due care, skill, and diligence will apply to all financial advisers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EA number of other amendments are designed to reduce compliance costs for business, including clarifying that entities can provide any financial adviser service to their clients through their employees, provided that those employees are appropriately regulated; allowing entities to provide generic advice that is not tailored to a specific person\u2019s needs; and enabling businesses that operate as groups of companies to make use of the qualifying financial entity\u2014the QFE\u2014model efficiently. These changes to simplify compliance for wholesale products are intended to allow entities to operate more effectively, clearly focusing the regime on the personalised services provided to retail clients. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ECorrespondingly, the role of the Securities Commission is now focused on supervising the people who provide the service. In order to ensure that the Securities Commission has the tools it needs to perform its supervisory functions with regard to personalised retail services, the bill also includes a number of new powers. For example, the Financial Advisers Act can be enforced against persons who committed offences while authorised, but who cancelled their authorisation before enforcement action could be taken. The commission can also impose temporary banning orders on people who act inappropriately, and it can apply to the courts for those bans to be extended for up to 10 years. The commission also has a reserve power to declare that a product of any qualifying financial entity must be sold only through individually authorised financial advisers. This will not require the commission to vet every product that a qualifying financial entity sells, but, rather, it will allow the commission to step in under exceptional circumstances. This is an appropriate approach, as entities will need to demonstrate their capacity to comply with the regime before being granted qualifying financial entity status. The Minister considers that this provides certainty to qualifying financial entities as to their ongoing obligations, while at the same time enabling the commission to act when required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe extended supervisory and enforcement powers of the commission will help to ensure that the regime is complied with effectively, to enhance overall investor confidence. The Minister knows that the industry shares this goal with him, and once this bill is passed, he expects businesses to engage constructively with the commission in order to help to achieve their mutual objectives. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u00220260bb4b156d4b818e27bac52c48a787\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220260bb4b156d4b818e27bac52c48a787\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Labour continues to support the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill, as it makes necessary changes to the Financial Advisers Act 2008 and the Financial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Act 2008, which were passed under the previous administration. I chaired the Finance and Expenditure Committee that heard submissions on both Acts, so I can pay an informed tribute to Lianne Dalziel, who was the sponsoring Minister of that legislation and who went on to chair the Commerce Committee in this term of Parliament, which dealt with this bill. Lianne Dalziel worked diligently to ensure that there is an improvement to her own legislative agenda. Thanks in large part to her efforts the changes that the House considers tonight will mean that the legislation passed originally under Labour can be implemented in such a way that it restores confidence in our financial services sector. I was pleased to be a member of the committee that worked under Lianne Dalziel\u2019s chairpersonship on the current bill. I want to compliment all of its members, regardless of whether they are present in the House tonight, on their diligent and non-partisan approach to the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI also mention in passing Cashmere Avenue School in Khandallah, which had its production of The Moral Machine tonight. I had applied to our whips for leave to attend that production and support that very fine school, but unfortunately this bill, along with duty, called, and I was unable to do that. But I wanted to make sure that there was at least a reference in the Hansard to that fine school and its creativity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe bill is important because the changes that it will make to our financial services regime are about protecting everyday investors. Mum and dad investors deserve not to be exposed to a predatory environment. Never again, if we pass this legislation, will this country have to put up with the lack of regulation in our markets that in recent years has seen the collapse of finance companies, resulting in families losing their life savings and their homes. This bill will not outlaw risk; no bill could or should do that. But it will have the effect of assisting people to achieve more robust financial advice, and of making sure that that is available to them in the future. But we must remember in passing that this by no means lessens the harm that has already been done. I think, in passing at least, the House should remember those people who have lost everything. In remembering those people, we need to recommit ourselves to preventing the financial markets from running wild, with little regulation. We do owe it to those who were badly affected by finance company failures not to let that situation ever repeat itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe changes to the bill that the Commerce Committee has recommended are extensive, and they are technical. I do not propose to traverse them all in this speech. They will be exhaustively canvassed, along with the provisions in the Supplementary Order Paper that the Minister has proposed, in the Committee stage, which, as the result of the urgency motion the House has just passed, will take place tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI will summarise the key points that the committee made in its report. The changes that the committee recommended will attempt to ensure that people have better access to robust financial advice, so as to avoid situations where uninformed investment leads to massive harm. There are three main ways that this will be done, if the committee\u2019s recommendations are adopted. First, a qualifying financial entity will have to name all of its contractors, whose advice it will become responsible for, instead of there just being a presumption that the qualifying financial entity is responsible for all advice. Secondly, the bill as amended will allow contractors of the qualifying financial entities, rather that just the immediate employees of the entities, as is the status quo, to provide financial advice on complex investments without them having to be individually licensed. Thirdly, both contractors and employees will have the ability to provide advice for products that the entity promotes under the Securities Act. At the moment, that can only be done for products that the entity issues, not for products promoted by it. In combination, those three principal changes will reduce costs and increase efficiency, and hopefully ensure that advice is readily available to those who participate in our financial services industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThis is a sensible bill. I commend the House for working so constructively to find solutions to protect mum and dad investors and vulnerable consumers in our financial services industry. I congratulate Simon Power, because he has clearly recognised that there is a power imbalance between a company operating in the finance industry and the ordinary consumer. It is obvious that there is a need to protect those more vulnerable parties when those deals are being made. There is an obvious asymmetry of information and often a massive imbalance of skill. It is important that we make sure that we protect the ordinary investor when we try to regulate the industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EBut I wonder why, if the Government can see the importance of the imbalance in this sector\u2014or at least in this part of the financial services industry\u2014and can acknowledge the severe consequences that can result from inadequate regulation in this case, it cannot apply that approach across the board. It is all very well to protect the sorts of investors who were very badly tricked by companies like Blue Chip and lost their savings as a result. Indeed, as I have said, that protection is a good thing; I am glad that Parliament is addressing those issues. But there is an obvious inconsistency when the Government is unwilling to protect the most vulnerable consumers, particularly the lowest-income consumers, who are experiencing the loss of everything they have because of having entered into arrangements with payday or marginal lenders\u2014loan sharks, in the vernacular. I am astounded that members of the Government have expressed the indication that they will not be supporting the referral of my colleague Carol Beaumont\u2019s Credit Reforms (Responsible Lending) Bill to a select committee on the next members\u2019 day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI do ask members to reflect on that inconsistency. It is not logical to provide a decent level of protection to financial services industry consumers, such as those for whom it is proposed in this legislation, but to fail to look after the most vulnerable and the most financially illiterate consumers at the lowest end of the financial services market. This Parliament runs the risk of doing that if the Government maintains its approach to Carol Beaumont\u2019s bill. To be properly consistent, the Government must reverse its decision on that legislation, and I hope it will. Meanwhile, I look forward to further debate on the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill. I commend this bill to the House on its second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e88ff6fc13f9466f9c3e74449c1f5492\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e88ff6fc13f9466f9c3e74449c1f5492\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to contribute to the second reading of the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill. It is a pleasure to speak to this bill, and I commend the Minister of Commerce, Simon Power, for the work that he has done in moving this bill to the House. It is, as the previous speaker, Charles Chauvel, referred to, a bill that amends two different Acts, the Financial Advisers Act 2008 and the Financial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Act 2008, which were enacted under the previous Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe work done by the Commerce Committee, as has already been stated, was quite extensive. I thank my fellow committee members for the collaborative way that we worked towards getting the bill to this point. I also want to acknowledge quickly the officials who worked tirelessly behind the scenes, getting the advice ready at short notice, and often working on weekends and late into the night in order for us to get this quick turn-round of the bill. I salute the officials. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EAs has already been stated, the financial services sector plays an important role for businesses to raise capital. This legislation is partly a response to the need to protect unsophisticated investors. Those were the investors who were affected by the collapse of over 30 finance companies in the past 4 years. Many people out there know of, are related to, or have friends who were affected by these collapses, so this bill goes a long way towards addressing some of the issues, particularly around financial advisers and the advice they give. Let us be clear, though, that this bill does not regulate risk\u2014it does not regulate risk. Risk is important because, as many people will know, with risk comes return, and there is a risk-return trade-off. The Government is not into regulating risk, but it is regulating those who operate within the capital markets. This bill not only balances the regulation of advisers who provide financial advice but also bears in mind that compliance-regulation red tape sometimes stifles commerce and the transactional nature of capital markets. That fine balance is what we had to look at when we went through each of the clauses of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe Commerce Committee has recommended a number of amendments in order to strengthen the provisions of both Acts. I will not go into all of those in any detail, but suffice it to say that the bill does narrow the scope of the Financial Advisers Act to apply it only to those persons who provide financial adviser services in the ordinary course of business\u2014and that particular qualification is important\u2014and to persons who provide advice in the course of providing another financial service. It provides for a carve-out, and it excludes financial advice that is provided incidentally to providing other services. We heard a number of submissions during the select committee process relating to those who provide some form of financial advice that is incidental to the main provisions of the businesses and organisations that were represented. Of course, those include citizens advice bureaus, lawyers, accountants, business advisers, and investment bankers. A whole raft of organisations and businesses provide advice without financial advice being the core to their business. This regime really focuses on those services that are generally understood to be those provided by financial advisers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe advice that we looked at, in terms of clarifying what constitutes financial advice, states that advice on the procedure for acquiring and disposing of financial products will not be caught by this legislation. We also looked at the type of advice that leads to broad statements about classes of products, such as \u201CKiwiSaver is a good product.\u201D Statements like that, made by customer service agents at retail banks, will be outside the scope of this legislation. We also looked at the definition of financial planning services, and made a clarification of what those financial planning services will entail. Those services will, no doubt, be discussed during the Committee stage of this bill. What is most important is that advisers will still be able to voluntarily become authorised financial advisers, even when they are not compelled to do so under this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThis bill also provides a more flexible regime by adding a number of regulation-making powers for the Securities Commission. Currently the commission can provide limited exemptions from the financial adviser obligations, but it is expected to focus on exemptions for classes of persons for whom the cost of compliance with certain obligations would be unreasonable or unjustified, and that is a particularly important point. This legislation is not designed to capture those who obviously are not in the business of providing financial advice, or those who obviously cannot afford to be part of the regime. We heard some very good submissions from various credit unions and other businesses whose primary focus, in terms of the service provided, is not providing financial advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI conclude by saying the wholesale carve-out within the statute was a difficult process and a difficult question, and the Committee was torn, in many ways, when considering who should be included in the carve-out and who should be excluded. In the final analysis, I think we worked together well as a team with the officials and also with the industry. We were constantly in touch with various players within the industry, who provided us with some very good advice. I support this bill in its second reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u002255c47ea6c636470a99887edff30dfb48\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255c47ea6c636470a99887edff30dfb48\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to correct one thing the previous speaker, Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga, mentioned. He said that the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill is not legislating for or regulating risk. I disagree with that because the risk of dodgy, incompetent, negligent financial advisers is not a risk that anyone should have to factor in when considering the merits of an investment. However, as the House is well aware and as New Zealanders are well aware, it is a risk that has proven so deadly to thousands of ordinary New Zealanders. So in a way this bill is regulating risk, and I am hoping that it is removing a risk that should not be part of any investment decision, but has been. In that sense, the bill is regulating risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI rise in support of this bill. As Sam and all the other speakers have mentioned, it has cross-party support. I support it for a number of reasons, which I will outline in the next 5 or 6 minutes. The bill is designed to tighten the rules and regulations around the financial advisory sector. I congratulate the Hon Lianne Dalziel on her excellent work as Minister of Commerce in the last Labour Government, and now as chair of the Commerce Committee. I also congratulate the Hon Simon Power, who picked up on this legislation and made very, very necessary changes to tighten even further the rules around this sector. The bill has cross-party support because it is sensible, it is necessary, and it is important for a number of reasons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe Act that this bill amends was way overdue. Many, many ordinary Kiwis out there believed in those people; they trusted those who masqueraded as financial advisers and called themselves experts, but in reality had no education, no qualifications, no experience, no registration, no checks or balances\u2014nothing that a reasonable person would expect people who marketed themselves in such a way to have. We have all heard the sad, sad stories of ordinary New Zealanders who have worked incredibly hard their whole lives, only to wake up one morning and find that the savings they had put away have now disappeared. No one has been made accountable; no one has been held to account. Can we blame it on the financial crisis? Quite simply, it is not good enough. I cannot imagine being in the situation where I had saved and planned for my twilight years\u2014maybe my grandkids\u2019 education; maybe a holiday away\u2014only to find the money did not exist, it had gone. I cannot imagine being in that situation, and the fact that thousands of Kiwis have been is a real, real travesty. That is why this sort of bill is absolutely necessary to ensure that that never happens again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ETo see the people who perpetrated these crimes against ordinary New Zealanders get off scot-free is a travesty. I am not so much talking about the Watsons, the Bryers, or the Hotchins. The latter, I understand, is holidaying in Hawaii for an obscene amount of money. I ask members to listen to this: his house is the house that the savings of thousands of New Zealanders built. It is a half-finished $30 million mansion. It is the size of 13 average houses, just on its ground floor space. It has seven bedrooms, a 25-metre swimming pool, and a garage for 12 cars. Its study, games room, and home theatre alone are as big as the typical house\u2014without counting any of its living space, including seven bedrooms. This house is built on a graveyard of the broken promises and shattered dreams of ordinary New Zealanders. It is the house of a man who is holidaying in Hawaii. I think it is obscene, and if the man had any sense left he would keep away from this country. We do not want that sort of person in our country, at all. It makes me quite angry when I think of what he has done and that he is holidaying in Hawaii. I think it is obscene. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI must admit that using New Zealand icons like Colin Meads and Richard Long as marketing tools was, in my view, unethical. There is no doubt that Colin Meads was a legendary All Black, but what the hell did he know about finance companies and investment? Richard Long was the face of news for many years and was viewed as reliable and trustworthy\u2014the type of image that a company would love to have. Well, the company died and it took a whole lot of Kiwis with it. I suppose we cannot blame Colin Meads or Richard Long, but hopefully this crisis will make iconic Kiwis a little more wary about how they use their own personal brands. In my view, although their accomplishments in their respective fields can never be taken away, the brands of Colin Meads\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ff48a99c6664922b906d9e118aba47a\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member, but the time has come for me to leave the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006220c932a8d624345a5a87d7b00c4d0ae77000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022793279b757db47f094aab4928493e6df\u0022\u003ETuesday, 22 June 2010\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002235a007f0b0294f90a3731e7bd8393fdc\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 23 June 2010)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d68669ba3c844c68b7e47b183de4bc4\u0022\u003EFinancial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b8df5303caf6421ead8f4c6ef3521f8a\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u002285b144cda7b943f9afeb3cc5b7169dac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285b144cda7b943f9afeb3cc5b7169dac\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a little bit difficult when one finishes at 10 o\u2019clock at night and then starts again at 9 o\u2019clock the next morning. However, what I was saying at 10 o\u2019clock last night is that I am very supportive of the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill. In fact, I think it is very necessary, because what we have seen, with the collapse of the finance companies, is that many, many ordinary New Zealanders have been ripped off and basically taken to the cleaners by a whole raft of people masquerading as financial advisers. I was talking about brands like Colin Meads and Richard Long, who were out there touting for these services. They were iconic brands and very good at what they did, but they knew absolutely nothing about finances. I was speaking to someone last night, after 10 o\u2019clock, who said to me that she invested in Hanover Finance because of Richard Long. Here was a man who stood for integrity and trust, and who was in our living rooms nearly every single night. So if Richard Long said it was good, therefore it must be good!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f1cac84bbd6489cbfb2b6cbc119e6fd\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: It must be good!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022009669d9c0864a51847c3e01fa698699\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: It must be good! What happened, of course, was that it was not good, at all. Richard Long was a very good newsreader, but he knew nothing about financial advice or financial investment. I hope, with this sort of financial crisis, that iconic New Zealand brands will think very carefully before they start endorsing products that they know nothing about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI was also talking about Mark Hotchin\u2019s $30 million house, which was built on a graveyard of the shattered dreams and broken promises of thousands of New Zealanders. If that man has any sense, he will not return to this country. It is obscene that we see him at the moment holidaying in Hawaii, off the money of thousands of New Zealanders who are now broke. I cannot imagine, having worked all my life, reaching the age of 65 or 70 and waking up one morning to find that all my savings had just disappeared. How heartbreaking would that be? In fact, there is evidence out there that ordinary New Zealanders have committed suicide over this. They have got to the stage where there is nothing worth living for. All their savings have gone, not only for their own retirement and their grandkids\u2019 education but also to allow them to live and retire with dignity. They have to sell their houses, they have to sell all their assets, and they find themselves with nothing. This is why the legislation that this bill amends is so good. The original legislation was introduced by the Hon Lianne Dalziel, and no doubt she will talk about that a little bit in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis bill will not stop the sort of obscenity that is Hotchin\u2019s extravagance, or stop Colin Meads saying that an investment is as \u201Csafe as houses\u201D. However, it might mean that the type of person who was promoting Hanover Finance as a safe investment would disappear. Real financial advisers will be able to scrutinise investment prospectuses with more rigour and in more detail, as is required, I would have thought, by such a profession. The reason I say this is that the intent of this bill is to provide for responsible regulation of the financial services sector and robust consumer protection, in order to restore confidence and trust in the financial services sector. I do not think there would be a person in this House, or anyone watching around this country, who would not agree that this is necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EKiwis need to know that when they take their hard-earned money to a financial adviser they will get independent, competent advice from a person who will walk them through the alternatives and know what they are talking about. When we go to a lawyer, we expect legal advice. When we go to an accountant, we expect that person to be qualified and to give us good accounting advice. When we go to a financial adviser we expect that person to be versed in the ways of financial advice and to give us good advice around that area. The past of the Wild West, a city full of cowboys, was not a good place for the vast majority of Kiwis, and I hope those days are now gone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAs a collective, we need to encourage people to invest in a diversified portfolio, into the productive economy. We need financial advisers to be well versed in the various options. I would say there is a long way to go before the industry has the full confidence of the investing and saving public again. But this bill, along with Lianne Dalziel\u2019s two Acts, is a start at least. I hope when this legislation is passed, in line with the other two Acts I have talked about, that at least we will begin to see confidence and rebuilding begin, with New Zealanders once again able to begin to invest with confidence. That is why I am fully supportive of this bill, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf1a3f408f58436bac8b67b561e43162\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf1a3f408f58436bac8b67b561e43162\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Ata m\u0101rie. The Greens are pleased to support the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill through a further stage. We do so with some regret. We regret the necessity for such a bill. One would have thought and hoped that, in an ideal world, amendments of this nature would be unnecessary, that people in the financial industry giving advice to often ill-informed laypeople would have a moral compass, and that their own integrity would determine that they actually gave good, honest advice and protected the investments and assets of normal New Zealanders. But, clearly, that is not the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI doubt whether anyone in the House does not have someone in his or her close circle of friends or family who has suffered some loss as a result of what has been quite well described as a Wild West, cowboy approach to financial investment, which we have seen far too much of over the last couple of years. I myself and my extended family know of a young couple who had accumulated a small nest egg that would have been a deposit for their first home. That is gone. The reason it is gone is that they quite wisely invested in two companies\u2014companies that apparently were very sound, and whose advertisements on television were fronted by well-known figures. That money is now gone. Basically, they discovered they had invested in a daisy chain of debt speculation and overstated values that were not really there. Essentially, their investments were simply taken away by people too greedy and too venal to be honest and up front about what was going on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIt is really critical that we restore people\u2019s confidence and trust in the notion of investment. People need to know that investing is reasonably secure, notwithstanding that there will always be some risk. That confidence has been comprehensively lost as a result of the rorts, the dishonesty, the greed, and the misrepresentation that we have seen far too much of for far too long. Restoring confidence is critical not least to the business sector. It is important that New Zealand business has access to capital, and small to medium sized enterprise in particular are identifying that as one of the issues confronting them. Access to capital is an issue. We need to encourage people with capital to think that it is a safe bet to invest, and to have a reasonable expectation that that money will be secure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI have to say that the select committee process, for me as a relatively new member, was a very positive process. That quite contentious and complex technical issues can be resolved to the satisfaction of people with quite different ideological positions demonstrated the power of select committees. I acknowledge the chair of the Commerce Committee, Lianne Dalziel, who had a very useful focusing mechanism. She kept using a phrase along the lines of \u201CWhat is the harm we are trying to remedy?\u201D, which was actually quite a good strategy to keep bringing us back to the point of asking what the problem was, what we were trying to resolve, whom we wanted to capture, and whom we did not want to include in the provisions of this bill. As a result of that, organisations like credit unions\u2014which are very robust, reliable, and straight-dealing organisations\u2014are not unwittingly caught up within this legislation. We are not imposing compliance costs on organisations or, indeed, individuals who were not targeted because they have not displayed the sort of bad behaviour we are endeavouring to overcome here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EOrganisations like the Citizens Advice Bureaux made very good submissions, identifying one or two instances where potentially they could have been captured by the provisions of this bill. Clearly, not-for-profits like the bureaux were not the target; if they give incidental advice in the course of assisting people in the community, that is well and good; the exemption of not-for-profits is a very sensible and strengthening provision of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThere was discussion, for example, about what constitutes a sophisticated investor, recognising that we do not need to put many protections around people who are perfectly able to look after their own interests. Some useful and informed commentary\u2014and, indeed, submissions\u2014from individuals and organisations helped us define whom we were trying to protect, and who can actually look after their own interests and be left to get on with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThat is probably as much as I want to say at this stage, except to reiterate that the Greens support this bill and its intention, and we look forward to seeing it progressing, and to securing and protecting the investments of people who can expect much better and more reliable advice as a result of this legislation. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5e0f859b94e42889528c2328947551f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5e0f859b94e42889528c2328947551f\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to be able to speak to the report back and second reading of the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill. When the bill was first introduced, I said I was pleased that the Minister had indicated his determination to stick to the time frame that he had announced for implementation. As a result of listening to submissions, we have accepted the Minister\u2019s decision to extend the time frame, not so much for the registration as for the implementation in its fullest sense, post - 1 December right the way through to the end of June next year. I also felt that the proposed changes, when they were introduced, were in line with the principles and the intention of the legislation, which I oversaw as the then Minister of Commerce. It was not until I actually started the somewhat arduous task of reading the submissions that we had received\u2014and we received a significant number of very, very detailed submissions\u2014that I realised there were flaws in the original framework that I had introduced that I had not been aware of as the then Minister, and that clearly the present Minister had not been aware of, either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EJust to put what the Commerce Committee has done with regard to this bill\u2014because it is virtually a re-write of the bill that was introduced, and we need to offer an explanation for that\u2014I want to go back for a moment to the pre-2008 election period. In so doing, I confess to the House something that I have confessed to my colleagues\u2014that is, I know more about the intricate detail and the potential application of this bill now, as chair of the committee, than I did when introducing the original legislation as the then responsible Minister. I think there is a reason for that, which I think should be addressed, and I will come to my suggestion about that later on. What I will propose, though, in this space is possible only when a non-partisan approach is able to be achieved. I think that the present Government when in Opposition, and now the reverse\u2014the present Opposition when in Government\u2014proved that a collaborative approach is what is required and produces the best results. I think this bill and the work that we have done on the select committee demonstrates that, and I pay tribute to all of the committee members for what we have been able to achieve on a collaborative basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EReturning to the pre-2008 period, I know that as the then Minister I put pressure on Charles Chauvel, who, at the time, was the chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee. I put pressure on him because I wanted those bills back in the House in time to be passed before the 2008 general election. There were two bills that I wanted back, in particular. They were the bills in my name, but also the bill to provide proper prudential supervision for the non-bank deposit-taking sector, which, of course, had transferred to the name of the then Minister of Finance, the Hon Dr Michael Cullen. In many respects, I did not mind if the legislation was not perfect, and I kept saying that to Charles Chauvel at the time. That was because there was time post-election to undertake any remedial work that needed to be done, while getting on with the job of establishing the regulatory frameworks for the new supervisory and dispute resolution regimes to cover what was an under-regulated sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI just want to use the word \u201Cunder-regulated\u201D again. This was not a totally non-regulated sector, but it was under-regulated, and I think that was the critical problem. I know that a lot of people have wanted to put blame on those who were responsible for the regulatory frameworks over probably a couple of decades since the stock market crashed in 1987, if we really want to go back to when we were first alerted to the problems that we have to confront today. But the problem was that there were regulatory provisions in place, and they offered insufficient protection. I think that our committee has been quite good at getting to the bottom of some of the things that we have not been able to get to the bottom of before. We have an inquiry under way that will continue to work to find those essential gaps in our system, and hopefully it will make recommendations to resolve them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThat was why I wanted the legislation passed before the election. I wanted the work to continue in the period when we went off to do our job applications for our triennial job interview, which is, I guess, what a general election is. I wanted to make sure that the bills were not left at the select committee or remained on the Order Paper past the House\u2019s rising for the election period, because nothing would have happened for a very long time if that had been the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EIf there is a criticism that I have of the current Government, and there is one, it is that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebaf9494682c444e85b3e21c63a00079\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Just one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e99e93b54ef4d1c95088bd1e6fe23ca\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014no\u2014this bill should have been introduced last year. That is the only criticism I will make. If it had been introduced last year, we would have had much more time to spend on the detailed analysis that we have had to undertake. I know that members of the committee, our advisers, our clerks, the officials, and the Parliamentary Counsel Office were all under pressure. But the pressure that we were under pales into insignificance in comparison with the impact that the time frame had on the finance sector, and the finance sector is critical to getting this legislation right. So I pay tribute to the extraordinary efforts that the major stakeholders went to in order to meet the extremely tight deadlines that we imposed on them. We know that people worked over weekends and that people worked overnight, in some cases, in order to meet these time frames and to deliver what I believe is now much more like the framework that I envisaged 3 years ago, when I announced the decisions made by Cabinet back in 2007. Less than a month before Bridgecorp failed, I made those announcements, and then the domino effect started again. We had had the three failures in 2006. Bridgecorp was really the tipping point, as we saw finance companies fall over one after the other. That was what the committee returned to in the end. I acknowledge my colleague David Clendon from the Greens for commenting on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe committee came back to a very fundamental question: what were we trying to do? We brought that perspective to what we were doing. We asked what the risk was that we were trying to mitigate, what the mischief was that this bill was trying to remedy, and whether the regulatory response was proportionate. We came up with a mixed set of answers, depending on whom we were talking about. The legislation is fundamentally about protecting unsophisticated investors. I know that among some of the mum and dad investors, as they are called\u2014or, probably more aptly in some cases, nana and grandad investors\u2014there was a kind of resentment that the language used implied that they were unsophisticated or naive, but I reject the view that these were greedy investors, as some have said. I want to place on record my abhorrence of the practice of deliberately hiding the level of risk behind a lower interest rate than was required to reflect the actual risk that they were taking with their hard-earned money. People lost their life savings in circumstances where they did not realise the level of risk that they were taking. There was a lack of knowledge and a reliance on financial advisers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EOur driver as a committee became a single-minded focus on the mischief that we were seeking to remedy. That is why we divided category 1 and category 2 products more appropriately, defined financial advice more clearly, incorporated the concept of personalised financial advice, and tied financial planning to the risk related to investment. We carved out the wholesale clients, who can look after themselves, and we tidied up the qualifying financial entity provisions. All the committee members worked hard on this bill, and I thank them for that work. In the same way that I have acknowledged the stakeholders, I also acknowledge our committee clerks, our advisers, the departmental officials, parliamentary counsel, and the Minister of Commerce and his staff\u2014his private secretary and his adviser. Finally, I acknowledge this House for allowing us to do things differently from usual, such as granting us leave to provide the departmental report to stakeholders during the time before we had reported back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThis has been a very good process. It has been a hard process, but it has been made very clear to me that we do need to take up the option of exposure draft bills accompanying discussion documents at a much earlier stage, so that the people who work at the coalface are able to give us very direct advice about how legislation will be implemented. In fact, they have made it clear to us that they could not have known these things in advance. We have, I think, made this bill much better, and I commend its passage through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022586d0f6032f149fc93d64f545f7c64c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022586d0f6032f149fc93d64f545f7c64c0\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise to speak on the second reading of the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill. Thousands of Kiwis have been affected by about 30 finance company failures in the past 4 years. That led to a loss of confidence in the financial services sector, and this bill seeks to amend the Financial Advisers Act 2008 and the Financial Services Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Act 2008 in order to give back the confidence to consumers so that they can once again feel secure and place their trust in the financial services sector. This sector is vital in raising capital for businesses. Getting ahead as a nation economically could well mean our having to get the confidence of the mum and dad investors back on dry ground once again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EIt is not often that I agree with the Opposition, but it was a pleasure listening to the chair of the Commerce Committee, Lianne Dalziel, speak earlier, and I agree with her that a lot of hard work was put into this bill by the select committee. I would like to acknowledge the chair, Lianne Dalziel, who just spoke, and the deputy chair, Sam Peseta Lotu-Iiga, who made an amazing contribution during this process. For someone like me who does not come from the finance sector, and often even the acronyms meant nothing to me, it was bloody hard work\u2014sorry; my apologies. It was amazing learning from them, and even Lianne Dalziel admitted that she found out more about this bill, and the processes, and the sector, as the chair of the Commerce Committee than she ever did as the Minister of Commerce. I would like to acknowledge the Minister for having the foresight to bring this bill to the House to see it through its passage, and also, like Lianne Dalziel, I acknowledge all the officials, because they have put in amazing work. As she said, we have demanded so much from them, with sometimes overnight report-back time frames, which has been quite tough on them, I am sure. I acknowledge all the clerks, the Parliamentary Counsel Office, and everyone who has helped us through the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EDuring the select committee process we had some major discussions about the shape this bill needed to take, but the thing we always came back to and focused on was to always remember that this bill was designed to protect the unsophisticated investors, the mums and dads, and the retired grandmother who wants to invest so she has a little something to leave as a legacy for her grandchildren. Often they really have no idea where to start when it comes to investments. These are the people who lost money as the result of finance company failures\u2014quite a lot of money. They could have really used some sound financial advice, and this bill addresses that issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAs a committee we considered a large volume of things in this bill, but one of the things I found very interesting\u2014and I am sure we will discuss it further when we go into other stages of this bill\u2014was the definition of financial advice. We were looking to protect unsophisticated investors, so we initially got to a point where we wanted to make sure that everything was captured. It got to a point that even a discussion in a taxi on my way to the airport, or headed to Parliament, about thoughts on whether to invest in or out of the housing market, could have been construed as financial advice. A group of friends sitting around a dinner table discussing the merits of a financial institution could also have been deemed to be financial advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe focus of the select committee was to protect the unsophisticated investors, but at the same time to provide clarity to the definition so that there was no question as to what financial advice is, and who is providing the service. So it was very pleasing, and I am sure there would have been a lot of people who were concerned they would be captured by this legislation who made amazing, very technical, and very detailed submissions to the select committee. Only those people who provide financial adviser services in the ordinary course of their business, and those who provide advice in the course of another financial service, are captured by this. This means that advice provided incidental to other services, as with the taxi driver I mentioned before, are excluded. Also excluded is advice on the procedures for the acquiring and disposing of financial products. Also, budgeting services are often called financial planning services. So to make sure there is no confusion, we have changed the wording in the bill to \u201Cinvestment planning service\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe other issue I found very interesting was the need for authorisation. However, if we authorise everyone, the compliance costs and the stress on the sector would be quite phenomenal. As a select committee, we considered that there was no real need for advisers who work only with category 2 products, like mortgages and insurances, who work for a qualified financial entity\u2014a QFE. They can do this job without the need to be authorised. They can still become authorised financial advisers should they so wish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe best thing about this bill is we are giving more power to the Securities Commission. The commission will now be able to ban people for up to 10 years by way of an application to the courts. They have the power to declare that a product of a qualified financial entity must be sold only through individually authorised financial advisers. Before an entity is provided with a qualified financial entity status, it must demonstrate the capacity to comply with the regime. This means that the commission does not have to vet every single product a qualified financial entity sells, but will allow the commission to step in under exceptional circumstances when there is trouble. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe expanded powers given to the Securities Commission will go a long way to enhancing consumer confidence, which has taken a major setback. It will promote more professionalism from the sector, and the serious deficiencies we have seen in the financial advisers industry in terms of disclosure, competence, and independence will surely improve. I commend this bill; it is a great bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00221e12d19d1d65424ebbc6128b6d9383fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e12d19d1d65424ebbc6128b6d9383fb\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E The Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill is a very important bill, and it is a very good example of how well parliamentarians can work together swiftly to address a critical issue. The issue is to protect ordinary investors\u2014mums and dads\u2014from shonky and irresponsible financial advice, to provide responsible regulation, and to restore confidence in the financial sector. I am very proud of the work that was done by the Commerce Committee and all of the officials involved. I acknowledge up front the incredible amount of work that was done by the members of the committee, particularly the chair, the Hon Lianne Dalziel, the deputy chair, Sam Lotu-Iiga, Katrina Shanks, and my colleague Charles Chauvel, and I thank them for their hard work on this bill. I also acknowledge the long-suffering officials, the clerks, parliamentary counsel, and the work done by the Minister to move this bill ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EOver the past 4 years millions of dollars have been lost as a result of about 30 financial company collapses, and www.interest.co.nz estimates that up to 200,000 depositors have been affected. Although this may include double-counting\u2014some of those people may have invested in more than one company\u2014even if it is 100,000 people, that is an awful lot of people who have been affected. Many of those investors made their decisions based on faulty advice from financial advisers. This bill will not stop all of those obscenities, such as Colin Meads saying that Hanover Finance was \u201Csafe as houses\u201D, when clearly it was not, but it might mean that the types of people who were marketing and promoting Hanover Finance as a safe investment will disappear. The issue of truth in advertising kept coming up over and over again when submitters came to the select committee. We heard that the advertising was clearly opposite to the reality. Real financial advisers will now be able to scrutinise investment prospectuses with more rigour and more detail, as is required, I would have thought, by such a profession. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe intent of this bill is to provide for responsible regulation of the financial services sector and robust consumer protection in order to preserve confidence and trust in our financial services sector. I do not think anybody in this House or anyone who is watching would not agree that that was necessary. I will mention one particular recent case study. Jailed Timaru investment adviser Neville Cant was banned from operating as an adviser or investment broker for 5 years. The ban under the Securities Market Act was the automatic result of Cant\u2019s conviction for theft of $100,000 by a person in a special relationship, theft from clients, and two charges of forgery. Cant was sentenced on those charges and Securities Act charges in early June. He received a 14-month prison sentence on the theft charge and was ordered to pay reparation of $100,000, and a concurrent 10-month sentence on the two forgery charges. He was also fined $136,000 on six charges laid under the Securities Act in relation to charges of offering and allotting securities to members of the public without a prospectus or an offerer\u2019s statement. Securities Commission spokesperson Roger Marwick was quoted in the Timaru Herald as saying that the commission had received a number of complaints regarding investment schemes established by Cant, who was now banned from acting as an employee or agent of an investment adviser or broker in any way that would allow him to give investment advice or receive investment money or investment property from a member of the public. He was also not allowed to direct, promote, or manage any investment adviser or broker company for 5 years. The aim of the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill is to ensure that incidents like this are eradicated from our financial services sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EMembers have heard that the previous Labour Government passed the initial two bills in 2008, in the knowledge that further tidy-up legislation would be required, so that work could proceed on the implementation of the financial service advisers regime as quickly as possible. The Government was slow to introduce this bill, and we heard my colleague the Hon Lianne Dalziel refer to that earlier. Really, that has been our only criticism of this bill, as it prolonged uncertainty for the financial services sector. The bill as introduced did not address all the issues identified by the stakeholders, and, as a result, the Commerce Committee virtually had to rewrite it. An enormous amount of good, productive work has gone into that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThere is a fundamental difference between the groups of people who have lost money that they invested. There are savers and there are investors. Investors are those who have, or should have, knowledge of risk, and who seek advice from different sources and make decisions after weighing up the odds. What they did not assess as a risk was the negligent behaviour of people who had no knowledge except that the more they sold, the better-off they were, which was conflicted in the extreme. Savers, however, are the ones who put their hard-earned dollars into the hands of the people whom this bill is hoping to regulate, to get the rotten eggs out of the sector. With their savings went their dreams of a retirement with dignity, a retirement spent enjoying the fruits of their labour, only to see that reality cruelly taken away. Savers do not necessarily price-risk as investors do. They pay others to assess the risk and expect competence, diligence, and honesty. As members have heard this morning, we expect that from an accountant, a lawyer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f4092bc923b4e229092c39ddae5fa94\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: What? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffeb4cc214cd4d4cb7c59738b0e78a97\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014mostly we expect it from those people\u2014and a doctor and a dentist. Why should we not expect it from a financial adviser? It is not too much to expect, and hopefully this bill will go some way to addressing that situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EInvestors understand that risk equals return, whereas savers\u2014the mums and dads, many of whom lost all their money in the financial sector\u2014were not pricing risk. They were putting their money away for their retirement, their children\u2019s education, or their grandchildren\u2019s education. This travesty has resulted in the increase in ill health and decrease in well-being of a huge cohort of New Zealanders. Labour did something about the problem. We passed the Financial Advisers Act and the Financial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Act. This bill makes adjustments that are machinery in nature, and there are an awful lot of them, but that does not make it any less important in protecting the most vulnerable in our society, so it is an extremely important bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe bill is important for other reasons, as well. One of the problems in this country is the do-it-yourself mentality to investment and savings. Many people think they know best about how to make an optimal return on their savings, without seeking advice from those who are expected to know the markets and the different investment options. It is a double bind in many ways, because I guess if we just did it ourselves then we would be taking the risk ourselves. But if we ask for financial advice from somebody whom we think is reputable and then do not get it, it is no wonder there is no confidence in the financial sector. Of course, it is not that all financial advisers have acted in an unscrupulous manner, and not all of those who were operating in an unscrupulous manner were operating out of the back of a tin shed. There were many financial advisers in glass towers whose advice was as devious and self-serving as the advice of financial advisers operating anywhere else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThis bill, I hope, will be another step in the process of rebuilding the confidence of ordinary New Zealanders in the investment advice sector, because it is what is needed. It is absolutely necessary, because it starts to rebuild the confidence of ordinary Kiwis in the financial advisory market. They need to know that when they take their hard-earned money to a financial adviser, they will get independent, competent advice from a person who will walk them through all the risks and benefits in a transparent and meaningful way. Once again, I thank the Commerce Committee members and all of the officials for the hard work they have done on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u002256a4d80fff1e46c1bee2f0ac886d2a5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256a4d80fff1e46c1bee2f0ac886d2a5f\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to be able to stand and support the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill. I congratulate the Minister of Commerce on the hard work that he and his office have put in, and as well I acknowledge the tremendous work that the Commerce Committee has put in. The bill is very complex, and the Commerce Committee does handle a lot of complexity. I think back to the Patents Bill and all of the discussions that we went through\u2014and are still going through\u2014regarding that bill. It is important that we collaborate and work together to find solutions that will work, particularly in this case for the investment sector of our society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EProfessor David Mayes, the new chair of finance at the Auckland University business school, has said that New Zealanders are average when it comes to financial literacy. We know that we are above average in many, many areas, but this is one particular area in which, it has been noted, we are lacking. But he went on to say this problem is not unique to this country. A lot of finance company collapses occurred before the effects of the global financial crisis were felt here in New Zealand, which puts us ahead of the curve on this one. We discovered that people need to have financial literacy, and that education in our society in particular has come up as an obvious area where improvement is needed, after the series of finance company collapses, which has seen, as the previous speaker said, 200,000 people lose money. I heard one report that said that $6 billion of those people\u2019s savings have been lost. The tragedy is that many of the people who lost their funds are in their retirement, so they do not have the opportunity to recover. They have no opportunity to go out and work, and to find other alternatives or options to raise an income for their retirement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThis bill seeks to amend the Financial Advisers Act 2008 and the Financial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Act 2008. The intent is to ensure that these Acts provide for the responsible regulation of the financial services sector, and bring robust consumer protection in order to restore confidence and trust in the financial services sector. Many of the people who lost their savings in investments did not appreciate the risks that they were taking, and would have benefited from receiving knowledgable, robust, and independent financial advice. Throughout the process of preparing this legislation we continually were aware that there are different types of investors, but I will speak on that point later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThis legislation has been well looked forward to. I think it will bring robustness to the industry and to the sector. It will be good for investors and savers, and it will also be very good for the industry. It will bring confidence gradually back\u2014it may not rush in\u2014to this area. That will, in turn, release capital for businesses, including small to medium sized enterprises, and bring opportunities for businesses in this country to get ahead. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002210159c62c36441d8865e56fadbcd6f46\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae6977a3bae2497a9926ef12abc513bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae6977a3bae2497a9926ef12abc513bc\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for all parts of the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill to be taken as one question, and in addition I request that members be given multiple calls in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f651052375d648168f16b466b4b12f09\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill to be taken as a single question, and that there be unlimited calls. Is there any objection? There is no objection. Leave is granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e440b03b029f404c8a173b714e88afe1\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2, schedule, and clauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e51473c4d97f497f83985edcdbc36af7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e51473c4d97f497f83985edcdbc36af7\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I was hoping that the Minister of Commerce would be here to answer some questions; it may well be that he is in a position to do so at some stage in the near future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EGiven that the advisers have come into the Chamber, I take the opportunity to acknowledge them and the work they have done. I know that it is not appropriate to bring the advisers into the debate while they are sitting in the Chamber, but they made an extraordinary effort. That effort was acknowledged in second reading speeches, but I wanted to acknowledge them while they were in the Chamber. The Minister can be very proud of the efforts made by parliamentary counsel, the officials from the Ministry of Economic Development who gave advice, and also our committee clerks, who under extraordinary time limits worked hard to produce what I think is a bill that better reflects the original intent of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI have already confessed in the second reading of the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill that I now know more about the detailed aspects of this legislation than I ever knew when I was Minister of Commerce. I feel very strongly that in the future, in this technical area where there is a non-partisan approach across the House, we need to look at getting out draft exposure bills so that people can see the detail. Important stakeholders, once they have seen how the bill has been written, will be able to say how they consider it will work in practice. A number of people spoke to me during the passage of this legislation through our Commerce Committee. They made the point that they had not understood how the legislation that had been passed prior to the last election would work in practice until they set about the task of implementing it. There really was not any way of their knowing in advance, but I think that if they had had a draft exposure bill to look at last year, we could have got through this process with a little more time and opportunity to reflect on things in the way that we would normally expect to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Committee stage is an opportunity to go through some of the detail of the bill. One of the things that I want to query, though, is a question that was raised subsequent to the bill being reported back. Some people raised concerns, one of which related to the Mortgage Brokers Association. A number of members of the association had actually started training that would take them up to the authorised financial adviser level. I want to place on record how much I approve of anyone in the financial advisory space getting himself or herself up to that level and beyond. I totally support those brokers who, although not required by the legislation to reach that level of authorisation, wished to gain the qualifications in order to reach that level. It was a very good approach for them to take. The position we had put to us after we had reported back the bill was that inadvertently we had prevented those people from becoming authorised financial advisers, because the Securities Commission would not have the power to grant them that status. They were ineligible because they did not advise on a category 1 product. I spoke to the Minister\u2019s office and I know that other members of the committee did, as well. We realised that if we were to encourage better standards within the industry as a whole, then we would not want that to be the case. I think it was a typical lawyers\u2019 interpretation of legislation whereby they look for problems rather than solutions\u2014I personally did not think it was intended to be restricted in that way\u2014but I understand that Supplementary Order Paper 146 now addresses that issue, and I would like the Minister to explain it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002243424e51960340a3b539325a64f98517\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243424e51960340a3b539325a64f98517\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I join with colleagues in noting that the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill, especially in the current climate\u2014even in the last 72 hours\u2014is extremely important, given that large amounts of money invested by a large number of people in a variety of companies and entities over a year or so has been put at risk and lost. We see on television from the latest saga regarding ANZ and ING (NZ) and the rulings that have been made that there is a lot of angst within the community. We can understand it when people\u2019s life savings are invested in good faith in respect of the advice they receive. When it turns to custard, they lose those savings. At best, in one case reported last night, the payout may be 6c or 10c in the dollar. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EFor me, this bill is interesting because it strikes at the heart of what consumers and the community can expect, which is a high degree of professional standards in respect of conduct and in respect of advice. It is quite simple, in my view: if people are purporting to promote a product or provide a service or advice, they should be qualified to give that advice or produce that product. More especially, they should be in a position where they stand by that advice and they are prepared to put their hand up and be accountable in respect of their conduct around it. Obviously, there is a difference between providing advice on what sort of product one should buy\u2014what sort of computer or washing machine, if you like\u2014and the more fluid environment in terms of providing advice in respect of investments and financial services. We have a thing called a market and it moves and does strange things, as it has done in the last 2 years at least. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI am mindful of a bit of a correlation between this situation and a favourite subject of mine, which is real estate agents. We went through a similar debate about standards of performance, standards of conduct, and standards of advice, and about people standing by their work, their advice, and their conduct. I will not get into that area, because it is not exactly on point with this bill, but I am mindful of the correlations and similarities. The vast majority of people in the real estate industry are good folk who stand by their work, do a diligent job, and provide diligent advice, but there were issues about a minority. The issues were whether they were qualified and had the professional skill to provide advice and conduct their work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EGreater risks exist, I think, in the financial area than in the real estate area. With real estate we have a tangible asset, bricks and mortar. In the financial sphere of operations we have a market that moves and does strange things, and it is more difficult\u2014a bit like trying to nail a jelly to a wall\u2014when sifting through a financial collapse, to determine who is accountable. We then have to go to the tertiary level, if you like, and make a connection in terms of those who have given initial advice to investors to give something a go, and in terms of trying to ascertain whether that advice was given in good faith and with professionalism, and whether people are prepared to stand by it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe difficulty we face with any legislation is that we are not writing legislation for the vast majority of practitioners, who would adhere to best practice\u2014whatever that is\u2014whether or not there was a law, but for the minority. We are writing legislation for the minority who purport to be professionals, purport to give advice at a professional and qualified standard, purport to have skills, and then when it all turns to custard\u2014in large part, thanks to their advice\u2014cut and run. That is not unique to the financial sector. It happens, I think, in all professions. My colleague Clare Curran ran through a few. Even in those professions that consider themselves to be quite lofty, we have seen people err in terms of both standards of professional conduct and advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIt has been noted that Labour contributed in large part to this bill with the passing of twin pieces of legislation establishing the new financial advisers and service providers regime in 2008. We were mindful of the environment that existed then. I note in passing that this bill has been slow in its progress. I do not make that comment as a political point; I simply note that, given that even in recent days we have seen further uncertainty around financial services in a variety of entities, I think the communities will welcome this bill. It will now move through the House relatively swiftly. I think they will look to this legislation for some degree of protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe final point I make is that I think there is also a responsibility within our communities. There is an old adage: if it looks too good to be true and it smells too good to be true, often it is too good to be true. It is a bit like going into a casino and expecting to come out with more money than one went in with. Well, the house always wins. I think that there is a duty and an obligation both on legislators in this House and Government and on our communities to improve financial literacy. I do not mean any disrespect to those in our community. People go into financial arrangements in good faith. They believe folk. People go and see lawyers to do their house conveyancing because they are professionals. People believe that because lawyers are qualified, things will go right. When people walk into a doctor\u2019s surgery, very few of them look up and ask to see the certificate on the wall as proof that the doctor is a qualified general practitioner. We take it as a given. I think that as we go into the future there has to be a greater effort to improve our financial literacy within our school system, starting with the young, and going right through to our adult population. I am a layman in this area myself. It is a big jump for people from doing their household budget, getting their finances right, and making sure their taxes are all sorted to then being asked to make judgments about where to put their life savings. As I say, the sniff test is that if it looks too good to be true, it generally is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI think some support needs to be put around this regime in the future to provide financial education and further financial advice for laypeople in our communities, and to assist them by ensuring that they have some confidence. When a layperson goes into a professional\u2019s office, he or she often feels a bit intimidated, because the professional is a sort of \u201CFlash Harry\u201D. The layperson may not want to ask the questions; more important, he or she may not know the questions to ask. I think that is where some sort of educational regime in the consumer affairs space could be supportive of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9d54bf07a684e118c2b883f1d7b82d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9d54bf07a684e118c2b883f1d7b82d7\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a short call on the Committee stage of the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill. If ever there was an illustration of the need for legislation like this, it came on Morning Report this morning, where a spokesman appeared for those who had lost money in the debacle around ING (NZ), owned by the ANZ group. The spokesman for that group was himself a financial investment adviser, and he was amongst those who had lost money in what had happened with ING. That is because there is not, across the financial sector, the sort of disclosure that is required for people to know whether they are getting the right advice, whether they are making the right investments, and whether they are making the right choices to protect themselves and their families when making what can often be long-term investment decisions. So the importance for clarity, the importance for transparency, and the importance for people to know exactly what they are getting is at the core of this bill, and it is to be applauded. It is another signal and message, I think, that markets do not always deliver everything that people need, which is sometimes a mantra we hear. We must have appropriate regulation in place to protect people, sometimes from themselves and sometimes from people who are not transparent, who are not currently accountable, and who sometimes have an agenda behind what it appears they are providing by way of service and assistance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003ELast year my wife and I went to find a financial adviser to give us some advice about our future. We chose a reputable firm. I have no doubt that the adviser we chose gave us good advice, but I had no real security around the fact that that was being provided by him. It is a little bit of a lottery, so this bill assists in that respect in terms of the transparency and accountability for advice provided. We were not in a situation of requiring any particular financial instruments from the adviser we sought\u2014it was simply in the line of advice\u2014but, obviously, that can be compounded and present potential conflicts of interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI note that we have seen many, many thousands of New Zealand investors who have lost money in the myriad financial company collapses over the last 3 or 4 years, sometimes after advice from financial service providers to put investments into a particular organisation and institution\u2014into the likes of Hanover Finance, which, I seem to recall, used to promote itself on State-owned television, Television New Zealand, as the name one could trust. Of course, that turned out to be absolutely not the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI welcome this bill. I think it will help to protect people against some of the slick advertising and marketing that we see, and give people more confidence that when they make investment choices guided by financial advisers, they have every reason to believe that that advice is provided appropriately and transparently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u002292482b1eb5eb456e8f5127fd0c80f55e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292482b1eb5eb456e8f5127fd0c80f55e\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As my colleagues and those on the other side of the Chamber have spoken about numerous times, we all support the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill. But I think we need to ask why the Financial Advisers Act needs to be amended so soon after it was first introduced. I think, as my colleague Lianne Dalziel highlighted, this bill was on the legislative agenda that the Labour Government really wanted to push through before the election. Ms Dalziel knew that if it did not go through before the election, then nothing would be done for quite a long time. The vast majority of Kiwis were looking to Parliament for direction in this area. It was not a contentious bill at all; it was borne out of the recognition that so many ordinary Kiwis have been let down by a sector that they were not expecting would let them down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI gave a couple of analogies in my speech in the second reading, and I will return to those. When we want legal advice, we go to a lawyer. To practise as a lawyer one must have a law degree and must be admitted to the Bar, and if one makes a mistake as a lawyer or is involved in negligence or incompetence, one goes to a law committee. A whole lot of checks and balances are in place to ensure that the public are well served by the law profession. The same is true if one wants to talk to an accountant. One goes to an accountancy firm, speaks to a qualified accountant, and gets good advice from the accounting profession. If people do not get good advice, if they feel they have been let down, or if they feel that the advice has been incompetent, there are ways and means for the public to go to the professional body and get redress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe situation with the financial services sector was completely different. People used to joke about it. If it was not such a serious issue for the vast majority of New Zealanders\u2014and more so for a targeted lot who have actually lost everything\u2014then it would be quite humorous. People used to say that as there was no work in the building industry, they would become financial advisers. It was a bit of a joke. We saw the growth of an industry where people with no qualifications and no experience whatsoever would tout themselves as financial advisers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe thing about New Zealanders is we have a bit of a DIY attitude to investment. We talk to our mates or read the paper, and we think we know how to invest our money well. Occasionally, if we do not know anything about it, we will go to someone who touts himself or herself as a financial adviser. To me, a financial adviser should be able to provide sound financial advice on what I should do or where I should invest my money. The lack of rules or regulations, requirements for qualifications, or any professional body sets off alarm bells. But, of course, how are the vast majority of New Zealanders to know any better? They do not. A financial adviser was out there to advise them what to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI come back to the question: why does this legislation need to be amended? Well, Ms Dalziel wanted the legislation to be passed because it needed to be passed. The building blocks of sound prudential regulation needed to be put in place, because if they were not in place before the election, it would take quite a while after the election. The Minister of Commerce, Simon Power, claims that the new legislation we are debating now will actually reduce costs and encourage public confidence back into the industry. I say that it will take a while before the public once again has confidence in this industry. We all know someone who has been burnt, and we have all read the stories about people who have been burnt. But the 2008 legislation was a very good first step, and this bill is a very good second step. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe bill basically consists of technical amendments designed to ensure that the new regulatory regime can be implemented efficiently and consistently within existing policy frameworks. It just builds on what is already in place, which, of course, is what a lot of legislation does. But this bill does it in a very positive way. I will give members one example. According to Bruce Kerr, who is the executive director of Workplace Savings NZ, this bill \u201Cwill offer more certainty to employers who assist their employees with retirement savings arrangements.\u201D Members may ask why. Well, if employees come to an employer and ask where they should invest their retirement savings, the employer can now, I believe, say with confidence: \u201CHere are some sound financial advisers. You can have confidence in these people, and you can have confidence in the industry.\u201D So it is a whole flow-through process. Mr Kerr had been concerned that employers who make retirement savings arrangements available to their employees through the workplace would be caught by the definition of a \u201Cfinancial service provider\u201D, but this bill avoids this difficulty. It takes out a lot of those anomalies that often occur when legislation is put through\u2014not under urgency, but in a hurry\u2014to fill a gap.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u00220bec0767f1ae4ad48db4ee4b5df7ffbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220bec0767f1ae4ad48db4ee4b5df7ffbf\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to say a few quick words on the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill, and I also echo the comments of the chair of the Commerce Committee to our officials and our advisers. I acknowledge personally the staff of the Parliamentary Counsel Office, while they are in the Chamber, for the hard work that they did within quite tight time constraints. We thank them, salute them, and wish them well, because a lot of legislation is coming through in this area, and they will have to deal with it in future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThis bill has multiparty support, so it has not been contentious. But we have had to work on the detail of the provisions of the bill. We have all discussed the balancing act between protecting vulnerable investors as well as trying not to over-regulate. We heard an earlier speaker talk about under-regulation, but we were also careful not to over-regulate in circumstances where regulation would serve no purpose and be imposed on those who do not provide financial advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI have already mentioned, in a prior speech on this bill, that it is difficult to regulate risk. That is not the role of the Government, but it has been quite clear in the last 24 hours, in the settlement between the Commerce Commission and ING (NZ) and ANZ, that when risk is misrepresented, mispriced, and inappropriately shown to be something that it is not, and when that advice is conveyed by financial advisers or so-called experts, we have problems. It is not the role of the Government to regulate risk; risk will always occur. It is just the same as the situation with regard to murder and other such social crimes, where the fact that we have laws to regulate those crimes does not stop them from occurring. So we have to be clear that we are here to provide some guidance, assurance, and confidence to the public who invest their savings in financial companies or other investment products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe other issue that has been raised in earlier speeches is one of enforcement. There are moves, as many people will know, towards having a super-regulator. It is important that the super-regulator has the powers and resources needed to enforce the laws that this Parliament has passed. That is particularly important, and we have seen in the last two Budget appropriations more resources being committed to the Securities Commission and other such regulators. I think that all parties support that. The proposed move involves the bringing together in a super-regulator of the different enforcement agencies, so that they are not talking above or below one another, but are talking to one another within the same body. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe Hon Clayton Cosgrove also mentioned financial literacy, and that is a really key point. When I do my electorate clinics, I see some of the issues, problems, and major difficulties that people seem to have regarding investments, housing, and the like. Their difficulties are around budgeting, financial literacy, and understanding where their money goes. We cannot do enough of that type of education and that type of learning not just around basic budgeting but also around financial products. And the issue is not just about disclosure. Another member has already talked about providing for better disclosure, but I know people with financial backgrounds who work in the financial industry but who still struggle to get through a 75-page prospectus. I know we have looked at legislation that has simplified prospectuses and simplified disclosure documents but, nevertheless, it is really asking a bit much to expect ma and pa investors, and grandma and grandpa investors, to understand complex financial products and financial disclosure documents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI want to quickly talk about the process taken with regard to the bill. I thought that the process that we worked through in the committee on this bill was, although time-constrained, useful and collaborative both across the House and with the industries that made submissions and came to the committee. It was quite useful to have the finance industry and the major players within that industry make contributions as we developed the bill. When we were developing the bill, sometimes the disconnection between what we were doing as parliamentarians and the advisers and the industry was such that I kept questioning how measures would work in reality, because we did not want to overburden the finance companies and those who work in the industry. The issues were about meeting time frames and about the costs that would be imposed. I think that the credit unions said paying $20,000 would be too onerous, and there was no ability within their cost structures to pay that for something on which they were not providing financial advice. We asked whether these measures were necessary in the greater scheme of things, and we kept asking ourselves that as we worked through this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI think what we have come to in this bill is very good, in terms of carving out the firms that did not need to come under the auspice of this regime but also including those that needed to be regulated because of the history of bad financial advice getting out into the community. I think this bill is very good. However, if people out there think that this bill will solve all our problems, I would say no. I say that respectfully and I say that truthfully, because I know that the finance industry is developing, and over time different products will come into being. There are very complex derivative products that may need further regulation. There are further exemption-making powers within this bill, and that will certainly allow for the legislation to grow organically over time. I think we have done a really good piece of work. I commend particularly the committee\u2019s chair, Lianne Dalziel. I thought she worked particularly hard and guided the committee in the right direction. I certainly commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00228e00a5edddcb4e1b94136744447d006e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e00a5edddcb4e1b94136744447d006e\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I want to take another call because I am a little disappointed that we have not had any response from the Minister in the chair, the Hon Tony Ryall. We have worked very collaboratively on this bill and I do not want it to turn to custard now. I have asked a serious question of the Minister and have not had the courtesy of a response. To be honest, it is the Hon Simon Power who should be standing in the Chamber and explaining how the Supplementary Order Paper dovetails into the legislation that we have. I am not referring to anything that is out of order in saying that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca9ae1a27db646d9a556c3acbe75bbdd\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. It is taken in good taste that the Standing Orders prevent members from talking about other members who are not in the Chamber. The Minister is at the CER meeting in Australia and is genuinely unable to be here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb95947062ae4c5cac634a5bbc1a7390\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, that is not a point of order. That is an explanation, which is not about the order of the Committee. Secondly, the Hon Lianne Dalziel did not say that the Minister was not in the Chamber and was absent. She said it was a pity he was not in the chair and making explanations. Now, that is different, but anybody who knows the Standing Orders knows very clearly that if the Minister were in the Chamber, he or she would have to be in the chair, and by joining the two facts together could conclude that the Minister was not. I am not saying that that was wrong but I just encourage the Hon Lianne Dalziel to continue and not to make reference to the Minister being out of the Chamber. But I do not want members to interpret my saying that as having said that the member did, because I am saying she did not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284c5c46210f54e07992c2eb1c016d91b\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chairman. By way of that point of order, and I am not referring to your ruling, an explanation has been offered, and it is one that I was not aware of. I think it is a shame when we have legislation of such significance as this. I am not objecting to the urgency. I have never objected to having urgency for this particular legislation, because I know that the desire is to have it passed by 30 June, and I have indicated to the Minister of Commerce that the Labour Opposition will support the passage of the legislation. But there is a serious issue to do with two matters in particular that have arisen since the bill was reported back. I have already mentioned the first one, which is the question of the Mortgage Brokers Association. The way that this is being dealt with by way of Supplementary Order Paper\u2014which is why I wanted a Minister to stand in the Chamber and put this on the record\u2014is that new paragraph (d) has been added by Supplementary Order Paper 146 to new section 55(1), which is to be substituted by clause 13B. It states: \u201Cproviding, in any case that is specified in the regulations for the purposes of this paragraph, services of the kind referred to in paragraph (a) or (b) or both, but in relation to any category 2 product, specified category 2 products, or specified classes of category 2 products.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThis is the provision that adds into the authorisation provision, and I think that having a Minister read this into the record in the Chamber would be useful to the Mortgage Brokers Association. It is a shame that the chair of the Commerce Committee has to do the work of the Minister in the Chamber on this particular occasion. I am a little bit annoyed about that, because I think it is discourteous to the Committee not to have the Minister respond to a very technical and detailed Supplementary Order Paper and read into the record which changes are being made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EA debate is to be had about the methodology chosen by the Minister to address this issue, because it requires those operating in the category 2 space to wait for regulations. No others have to wait for regulations, in the way that section 55 has been used. So I think we are entitled to an explanation. I think the explanation probably is that it is at relatively short notice, and we would like to put a regulation-making power into the legislation so that we can resolve this matter after the fact, and do so in a way that indicates to the sector that it will have its needs addressed by way of regulation. That would certainly send a very positive message to the mortgage broking sector. Again, I place it on record that I am very happy that it wishes to improve the quality of advice it is providing and that it wants to increase the level of qualifications its mortgage brokers will be providing, by lifting those qualifications to the authorised financial adviser level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EHaving section 55 amended in this way may just simply be because of the pressure of time. If that is the case, we should have that read into the record. Then there will be comfort going to the sector that the regulations will be forthcoming from the Government in due course and in time for the legislation to be implemented. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWhat we do not want to see happen is that the people enrolled for these higher-level qualifications are pulling out of the qualification course because they no longer need to do it. There is a risk of that happening, and I have heard that it has happened. Well, I think that is pathetic and I do not think that anyone worth his or her salt should even consider contemplating pulling out of a course that he or she has enrolled in. That person has committed to a particular course of action, and I think he or she should continue down that path. I want to discourage people from doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EAs a result of this amendment in Supplementary Order Paper 146, and once regulations have been passed, this legislation will enable those operating in the category 2 space to be authorised financial advisers and to therefore meet the requirements set by the Securities Commission for their authorisation in that space. It means that they will be authorised in that space for the products they are dealing with. I think that sends a very positive and powerful message out there to the wider industry in terms of quality standards, and that is a very good thing. But it would be helpful to have a Minister in the chair who was prepared to right the record, as it were, in the manner I am proposing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe second area relates to a concern expressed in an email that has been sent to the Minister of Commerce. It was sent on Monday and it was copied to me, other members of the committee, and other Ministers. It relates to the concern that we still have not quite carved out those who need to be carved out\u2014and we have done quite a bit of carving out with this bill. We wanted to make it clear that some things in the area of financial service are not really financial advice. We identified services performed by those operating as retail assistants, for example. They help people to fill out their applications for hire purchase for the goods they have purchased. This is in the credit space, gathering information for an application for credit. It was not seen to be covered by this. Other law deals with that subject. That sits very clearly with the Minister of Consumer Affairs, and changes need to be made there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI should just put on the record that after the comments we have already heard in the Chamber on this bill, the Government should support Carol Beaumont\u2019s member\u2019s bill on loan sharks. We definitely need to have some tightening of the regulations in that area. I think that is important, and I will make the point that the Government should definitely support Carol Beaumont\u2019s member\u2019s bill when it comes up for a vote. We will certainly be repeating back some of the comments that have been made today about those who are vulnerable in the financial sector, and certainly those who are the victims of loans sharks are vulnerable in that sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe concern has been drawn to our attention\u2014and this is on behalf of Farmers Trading, TaxiCharge, the New Zealand Taxi Federation, and Telecom\u2014that we have not quite undertaken the carve-out sufficiently. Concerns are being raised that we have not quite got that exactly right. I would like the Minister to place on record a response to Marketing Law, which has raised these particular issues with us. The first issue is that the Act will apply to many industries that were not contemplated by the Financial Action Task Force on Money Laundering requirements and that have not been consulted. We heard its submission in a very positive way. We took it on board. We were very clear that we had undertaken the carve-out, so that is why we need to have it on the record that the Minister agrees that we have appropriately carved them out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThere is a question around access to justice denied to financial service provided. This is around binding rulings of the dispute resolution scheme, which is in new section 49D of the bill. This is where the complainant can apply to the District Court for review of the final settlement. The dispute resolution scheme provider can apply for a review but there is no provision for the respondent financial service provider to apply for a review. Even though the District Court is empowered to amend a manifestly unreasonable provision, it can do this only on the application of the complainant or the dispute resolution scheme provider. The District Court said that this conflicts with section 27 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, which is why it has copied this to the Attorney-General. That section addresses the right to justice for every person. The District Court said that there is no mutuality of rights and the financial service provider legislation will prevail over section 4 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022969016f13850483e9490ba9b93d8a43a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022969016f13850483e9490ba9b93d8a43a\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I reiterate what my colleague the Hon Lianne Dalziel said about the importance of the Government supporting Carol Beaumont\u2019s bill on loan sharks. It is a logical progression from this Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill. I also reiterate what previous colleagues have said about accountability and that this bill is about providing for accountability on the part of financial advisers, just as many other professions are held to be accountable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAs the law stands, anyone can call himself or herself a financial adviser, and people do not need to have any qualifications. Advisers do not need any supervision and do not have to belong to a professional body. They do not have to belong to such a body or have a formal way of dealing with disputes. Until 28 February 2008, unless advisers were asked a specific question, they did not have to disclose anything other than certain criminal convictions, bankruptcy, and banning orders. Many of the examples of shonky financial advice have been around the marketing of financial products by people who simply did not know or understand the products that they were marketing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAlso, as has been proved and is being proved in the courts, outright lies were being told. We see in the Dominion Post today a report that more charges are being laid in relation to the Bridgecorp failure case, and that Bridgecorp directors Rod Petricevic and Rob Roest are scheduled to appear in the High Court in Auckland this morning to face fresh fraud charges brought about under the Crimes Act. Those charges relate to allegations that the directors lied to investors about Bridgecorp\u2019s financial health in its December 2006 prospectus. It is also alleged that the directors lied to investors by claiming that the company had never defaulted on repaying principal or interest to investors. Today\u2019s charges have been laid by the Crown\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d819d210630140248ec08e015e4ed06e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I caution the member that it is one of the practices of the House that we do not interfere with the courts. I am starting to become a bit worried. You mentioned that a court case is proceeding, and I caution you that I do not want to hear any contributions that could be seen to overlap with the activities of the court. It is fair enough to refer to the fact that there is a court case, but I am starting to get the hint that you are moving on to some of the substantive issues in the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ac1ceaf96694940a297912333b42079\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: I will refer to some of the statements that were made by victims of the Bridgecorp collapse that were reported in the Sunday Star-Times in late 2007, to give an example of the kind of impact that this collapse has had on people\u2019s lives. This has been talked about a number of times in this House, and has resulted in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe victims included an 81-year-old rest home resident who relied on the interest on her $80,000 life savings to pay rest home bills. Another couple, aged 93 and 95, were relying on Bridgecorp and Five Star Consumer Finance investments in order to pay their retirement village fees. Another couple, aged 67, who lost $160,000 across several bust finance companies said \u201CWe will never recover from this. We are too old and too tired to fight. We are absolutely devastated, feeling that we have been robbed of our life savings by dishonest and unscrupulous investment companies.\u201D Many investors complained that their financial advisors were still spinning them a hard sell, despite the collapse and advice from the receivers that the holders of unsecured debentures and capital notes would get nothing. Another quote by one of these people said \u201C(My financial adviser) told me not to believe what the receiver, the media and the experts were saying and that we will get most of our money back. I feel that I have been misled by my financial planner. I want them to be held responsible for their negligence.\u201D That is what this bill tries to achieve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EFrom 29 February 2008 amendments to the Securities Markets Act of 1988 will change the rules on disclosure by investment advisers, but not by other kinds of financial advisers. The Commerce Committee, after all of the work that it did on the bill, recommended that it be passed with significant changes. The committee received many high-quality submissions and took an unusual step, as we have heard a number of times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00229bae79cc49b34d238b3ee152dd62dedd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229bae79cc49b34d238b3ee152dd62dedd\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E The Committee stage of the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill was going so well. As we were all speaking we had agreed that the Commerce Committee worked very well and cooperatively with the sheer volume of paperwork we had to get through. Some 93 submissions came through the select committee and 42 were heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI start off by commenting on the statement of the previous speaker, Clare Curran. She said something like anyone can be a financial adviser at the moment. I remind that member that before National became the Government, Labour was in Government for 9 years. We had 30 finance companies fail in the last 4 years, and the model we are working in is the Financial Advisers Act 2008. Labour passed that Act and we are trying to amend it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe committee worked really well. I know Lianne Dalziel worked really hard. She was not in the Chamber when I gave her a compliment, but I acknowledge once again the sheer amount of work she did. I thank the officials who are here. I do not know how they did it, but they managed to meet all of our deadlines and I appreciate all their hard work. I thank them very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EOn the back of the global credit crisis, encouraging savings to create a greater pool of capital in New Zealand from which credit can be accessed, so interest earnings can be retained within New Zealand, will enable us to build a stronger economy and a stronger export sector, which will be good for New Zealand. This National-led Government is trying to encourage New Zealanders to move from consumption to investment, and to bring them from spending money to saving money, which will strengthen our economy. We needed good financial advice, but we did not quite get it. We are trying to make sure that we have solid financial advice for the mums and dads who made bad choices because they got really bad advice in the past. We need to make sure they have confidence in the advice so they can invest their money and have something for their children and their grandchildren. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EOne of the things I talked about earlier was the definition of \u201Cfinancial adviser\u201D, but now we are moving on. One of the things we clarified was the whole territorial scope for the financial advisers that this bill covers. When financial advice is given in New Zealand, this bill makes sure that those people give good advice\u2014I think I got that right; I hope I am reading this right. I think Lianne Dalziel talked about carving out a whole lot of things. This bill is not about protecting people who are sophisticated or who work in the financial sector and know how to do it. We wanted to know what harm reduction we were going to provide through this bill, what mischief we were trying to remedy, and who we would be protecting. This bill is about protecting unsophisticated investors who lost a lot of money. Let us hope we do not have that situation once again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022 data-id=\u00228fda1b17406d4ca5a0148eca6c0b1b1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fda1b17406d4ca5a0148eca6c0b1b1d\u0022\u003EHon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E I will make some comments on behalf of the Minister of Commerce that I hope will address some of the issues raised by the Hon Lianne Dalziel. The Commerce Committee made a number of changes to the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill to ensure that the bill is legally effective, consistent, and works appropriately. Obviously, the Government supports the changes made to the bill by the select committee to focus the legislation on the areas we want to ensure are properly supervised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EPart 1 of the bill is concerned with the provisions of the Financial Advisers Act, with two exceptions. The changes to Part 1 of the bill in the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 146 reflect matters of detail that have been identified by officials and stakeholders as necessary to give effect to the decisions made by the Government and the committee. It also fixes minor drafting errors. The most notable of these minor changes include, firstly, clarification of how the certification process will work for wholesale clients wishing to opt into the framework for the treatment of wholesale advice; secondly, changes to make absolutely clear that retail staff providing advice on credit in the course of a retailing business is not an activity caught by the Act; thirdly, clarifying the manner in which obligations may be imposed on qualifying financial entities; and, fourthly, clarifying that the Act contemplates that investment planning services may be provided to a class of people as well as specific individuals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThe Supplementary Order Paper proposes two other changes to the bill that are a little more substantive. The first is to introduce a new regulation-making power that allows transitional arrangements to be made in implementing the new regime. In order to ensure there is an effective mechanism for dealing with any transitional issues, the Supplementary Order Paper includes a time-limited transitional regulation-making power that enables the Minister of Commerce to authorise supplementary or replacement transitional provisions. This change will help ensure that the need for urgent remedial legislation to deal with transitional issues is mitigated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EThe other substantive change proposed by the Supplementary Order Paper addresses concerns raised by various parts of the sector that the regime does not allow people to voluntarily opt into authorised financial adviser status. I take this opportunity to clarify that the bill does not prevent any person from becoming an authorised financial adviser where that person has met the qualification criteria. However, it has become clear that the Act currently does not allow the Securities Commission to authorise a person to provide services solely in relation to category 2 products. To ensure that consideration can be given to allowing authorisation for the provision of this sort of advice, the Supplementary Order Paper enables regulations to be developed to allow the Securities Commission to authorise a person to provide any class of financial adviser services. It should be noted that once the bill has been passed, it will be possible to address concerns raised about the ability for category 2 advisers to seek authorisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003EAs a final note, the other amendments in the Supplementary Order Paper, as already referred to, are technical in nature and add details needed to give full effect to the decisions of the select committee. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00224525ec75a8044092bbc1262a244f3d8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224525ec75a8044092bbc1262a244f3d8b\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E Unfortunately, the Minister in the chair, the Hon Georgina te Heuheu, did not answer the question I had asked, which was whether the Government will put on the record that it intends to regulate to allow the Securities Commission to have authorised financial advisers in the mortgage broking space. That is the question we have been asked, and I would like the Minister to put the answer on the record. I assume that the answer is yes, that the Government is writing in a regulation-making power so that regulations will be passed. I honestly think that we have had such a good process up until now that it would be a shame to ruin it by Ministers being inadequately briefed to contribute to the Committee stage debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe second question I asked, in relation to the question of regulating out or regulating in, was not answered at all, unless the Minister was answering it by reference to some element of Supplementary Order Paper 146. I tried to capture her attention by asking what clause she was referring to, but I cannot see which clause it was. I think that if the marketing law people who represent these businesses have gone to the trouble of providing us with their concerns in writing, they deserve to have an answer in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe final point that I was coming to but was unable to address was the question about the binding rulings of the dispute resolution scheme. It is in section 49D, in clause 38B of the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill. I have gone through the Supplementary Order Paper, and it looks like the complainant has been taken out, so just the person responsible for the scheme can apply to the District Court to make an order requiring a member of the scheme to do either or both of the following: comply with the rules of the scheme, or comply with a resolution of a complaint that constitutes a binding resolution under those rules. The point that was being made was that there was concern that that conflicted with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act because there was no mutuality of rights. Has taking out the complainant resolved that problem, or does it make it worse? The question we were being asked was whether people should be able to apply for a review of the final settlement. I cannot find out who has the ability to apply for a review of the final settlement, and whether the financial service provider has been given that particular authority to apply for a review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe trouble is that we have only just received this letter. I thought we would get a more detailed response from the Minister in the chair. Agreeing to have the Committee stage done in an across-the-board way enables us to focus on the different elements of the bill. It is the technical debate. It is where we try to make sure that we have got things right. If we do not have them right in this stage\u2014and I do not want the Committee stage to run into the lunch break\u2014and we move to the third reading, we will end up not being able to fix things. Even though there is a regulation-making power in order to resolve things that come up afterwards, it will not look very good if we have not addressed these technical matters in the Committee stage. People have gone to the trouble of providing us with some feedback post the report back of the bill. It is not unreasonable that we put on record a response to the concerns they have raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe other matter that I would really like the Minister to address in her comments on behalf of the Minister of Commerce is that at all stages we gave the officials the ability to go back to the stakeholders to get feedback from them, and on this technical part of the bill I would like to know whether any other matters raised by key stakeholders are outstanding. Apart from the three that I have raised, have any other outstanding matters raised by those important stakeholders whom we have engaged with in a very positive way been addressed in the Supplementary Order Paper? Have issues raised by outside stakeholders been addressed, and are there any gaps? Were any other things raised by major stakeholders? I think knowing that would assist the process of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00222a66a5d3162e4b87b4d60a2d890cc606\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a66a5d3162e4b87b4d60a2d890cc606\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I agree with my colleague Lianne Dalziel that the Financial Service Providers (Pre-implementation Adjustments) Bill is a technical bill. We are in the Committee stage, and some very important technical issues need to be answered. I will address a couple of points made by Government members that I think need a little bit of clarification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee said the bill is here to protect people who have lost money. My answer is that it is a little bit too late for a lot of those people. I quote the introduction in the commentary on the bill: \u201CThe intent is to ensure that these Acts provide for responsible regulation of the financial services sector and robust consumer protection, in order to restore confidence and trust in the financial services sector.\u201D This bill is here to protect every single New Zealander who has any thought of investing money. It is not about those who have already lost money. I hope we do not stand up in this House again at another point in time to talk about another 30 financial institutions or organisations from the financial sector that have cost New Zealanders millions and millions of dollars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAnother thing I would like to talk about is what Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga said. He absolutely hit the nail on the head, but he got it wrong\u2014and I know that sounds like an oxymoron. Sam said that friends of his with a financial background find it difficult to wade through 75 pages of a prospectus. That is the hub of this whole argument. If friends of his with a financial background cannot read a prospectus in order to advise clients or prospective customers, what the hell were people without any financial background whatsoever doing advising people where to put their money? They had no place doing that, and ordinary Kiwis trusted them. I say to Sam that if people cannot read a prospectus, they should not be investing, and they in no way should be acting as a financial adviser to anyone. Prospectuses are put out by law. It is the law that people who offer securities to the public have to put out a prospectus. Every item in that prospectus is required by law\u2014unless the offerer adds additional information. Nearly every single bit of information in that prospectus has been deemed by Parliament to be necessary information when making an investment decision. I say to the member that if his friends have trouble wading through a 75-page prospectus, and they are financial advisers, they should look at upskilling, or look for another job, or better understand how to read prospectuses, or take a little bit more time before they advise their clients on where to invest their hard-earned money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe commentary states that the bill is \u201Cabout protecting unsophisticated investors.\u201D Those are the words used. Unsophisticated investors go to sophisticated financial advisers to seek advice. Their expectation, which I do not think is unreasonable at all, is that the financial adviser will have read the prospectus, will understand the offering, will understand the pitfalls in any investment that the prospective client is thinking about investing in, and will be able to advise about the pros and cons. The member needs to advise his friends to get a little bit more education and to take a little bit more time to understand a prospectus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe other thing I would like to talk about is risk. Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga also mentioned that it is not the role of the Government to legislate for risk. Well, I take a little bit of issue with that. The development of risk and the understanding of risk are fundamental to the growth of the Western economy. I recommend any reader to a book called In the Lap of the Gods. It is the history of risk, and was written by a man who is a Harvard professor and understands this issue better than anyone in this House ever will. It is a very good explanation in layman\u2019s terms of how the art of assessing risk came about and was developed. It is difficult to regulate for risk, but it is vital if we are to get the whole global economy up and running again. This financial crisis has come about due to the misinterpretation of risk or not understanding risk. For example, Moody\u2019s, which is a credit-rating agency, was giving a triple A rating to organisations that were carrying items on their balance sheets that were incredibly high-risk. So not even Moody\u2019s was able to effectively assess the risk of a lot of the offerings. What is taking place is that Governments around the world, including our own\u2014and this bill is part of it\u2014now understand that assessing risk and legislating for poor risk are an important part of getting the global economy up and running.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThere is something called the risk-free rate of return. US Treasury bonds are classed as the safest thing any investor can invest in, because if the US Government cannot honour Government bonds, we are in a hell of a lot of trouble. So that is the risk-free rate of return. Theoretically, everything that pays a risk premium over and above US Government bonds has a certain level of risk attached. But I would argue, and I have argued, that the risk associated with incompetent, negligent, or unprincipled financial advisers is not a risk that investors should be forced to take on. However, it was a risk associated with the financial services sector before this regulation came into place. It is not a risk that people should be asked to assess.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022958539f51aab49c7b517e68e43c56ec8\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: Nick Leeson. Bernie Madoff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c37289dfb7214fceb69e32d301578b25\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: The member makes a very good comment. We should be aware that it was not just people operating out of the back of tin sheds who caused the crisis. People in glass towers were advising ordinary Kiwis on where to invest their money, and they got it incredibly wrong\u2014ING (NZ) is a classic case of that. So this bill is not just about regulating the fly-by-night guys; it is about regulating the whole industry. It was not just the fly-by-night guys who got it wrong. The ability to assess risk is vital in terms of having a robust economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI said in the first reading of this bill that different groups of people have lost their money in finance companies, and the difference is basically about savers versus investors. Investors are those who have knowledge, or should have knowledge, of risk, and who seek advice from different sources and then make decisions. They are investors, and they are after the highest rates of return they can get after assessing their risk. But then there are savers. Savers are people who acknowledge that they do not know much about risk, at all. Therefore, they seek advice. I am not a lawyer; I seek advice from a lawyer. I am not an accountant; I seek advice from my accountant. People who are savers are not financial investors; they are savers. Therefore, they seek advice. It was those people who went to financial advisers and lost all their money\u2014and they may have gone to only one adviser. They had no ability to assess risk. They were like Sam\u2019s friends; they could not wade through a 75-page prospectus. They had no idea of how to assess risk. The prospectuses were there to give financial advisers the ability to assess risk. Savers went to those people because savers do not know how to price risk. They do not know how to price risk; investors are supposed to. Savers pay others to assess risk, and they expect competence, diligence, and honesty. I ask whether that was too much to expect. Was it too much to expect? The answer is that, no, it was not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESo this legislation amends a couple of Acts put forward by Lianne Dalziel to ensure that savers who want to put their money away but have no idea how to do it\u2014they do not want to put it in a bank but are seeking a decent rate of return\u2014and who go to a financial adviser will get honesty, will get competence and will get diligence. As in any industry there will be, unfortunately, the odd rogue or two. But this bill promotes registration so that there will be recourse for people who are given incompetent or negligent advice. As with anything, though, risk is very important, but we must come up with a process that allows us either to understand that risk or to go to people who understand that risk. I reiterate that prospectuses are there to allow financial advisers to assess risk and then to offer advice in a timely and correct manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis is very important legislation for a whole lot of people. It will, I am hoping, allow confidence to slowly return to the investment advice sector, and that is why I think it is fantastic legislation. Lianne Dalziel did a wonderful job. The Hon Simon Power, by championing this bill, has picked up the ball and run with it. As Lianne said, it is a bit of a shame that the bill was not introduced under urgency a year ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u00229234f2401473489b9452a4708156eb90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229234f2401473489b9452a4708156eb90\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I acknowledge a very good point the previous speaker just made\u2014that this is a very important piece of legislation. I think that the next 12 to 18 months will be a very important time for New Zealand investors and savers, and also for the financial advisory industry or sector. We will see not only people coming into compliance but also those who choose not to comply but perhaps leave this industry, as well, which will give great confidence, I believe, to investors and savers in New Zealand. I think that one of the most important aspects of that is not just the securing of people\u2019s confidence but the fact that that releases capital into our economy. We know that that is incredibly important. I acknowledge what Melissa Lee said: not only is it releasing capital but also it is retaining interest savings and earnings in this country, as well, rather than losing those overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EA cornerstone of the Financial Advisers Act is that the professionalism of financial advice is best encouraged by ensuring that it is delivered by competent and ethical individuals. I would say that by and large the majority of financial advisers are applauding this legislation. It ensures and testifies to their integrity, their ethics, and their competence, for the public of New Zealand. We know that through the failure of finance companies over the last number of years, many of these financial advisers\u2014some who are my personal friends\u2014have felt that their reputations have been tarnished. But I am sure those people who do their very best, in all diligence, will find that this sort of legislation will support their integrity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWe know, because I gave the quote in my earlier speech, what Professor Mayes said\u2014that New Zealanders are average when it comes to financial literacy, which is a problem not just here in New Zealand but in many nations. But here in New Zealand a lot of financial companies collapsed prior to the global financial crisis that occurred, which tells us that we had issues. We had had issues within our financial sector for some time, and prior to the financial crisis they were obviously starting to affect and hurt many, many investors. We know there was a period when the nation of New Zealand went into recession prior to the financial crisis, as well, so many aspects of our economy needed attention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIt is very good that the hard work has been done on this bill. As Melissa Lee commented in her speech, 93 submissions were received from different interested groups and individuals. We heard 42 of those, and we had tremendous support from the officials. I give my congratulations on the work they did, and I thank them for the long hours they put in. I think the legislation pushed everybody to the limits of their understanding, and beyond that. We received tremendous support and comment from the industry, as well. I thank all those who came and brought submissions, and who had a part to play in the forming of this legislation, which I believe will give a very secure future in going forward for the investment industry and for investors and savers in this country. I was very privileged to be part of the Commerce Committee, and I acknowledge the hard work, particularly of the chair and deputy chair, as well as from Charles Chauvel and Katrina Shanks, who in a sense formed the core working-group of people who had a larger level of expertise; members such as I appreciated so much what they were able to bring, and that enabled us, as a committee, to work together very well. I am very happy to commend what we have here to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u00229d15ec1a5bd0487095076112846f6eab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d15ec1a5bd0487095076112846f6eab\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I have enjoyed sitting listening to the debate. Predominantly, the members of the Commerce Committee are reporting back on this bill today. But I felt rather sad, actually, when I heard a member opposite, Melissa Lee, talk with that rhetoric about what Labour had done over the last 9 years. Many of us\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2cd008dc2004950bfd6c8075b42f329\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b89c5e2845b04eb99099205dcdbf3fd1\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is not true. The member is a relatively new member. I think that the member firing those barbs across the Chamber when he has just come into the Chamber after we have had 2 hours of fantastic debate and agreement shows his naivety. No one opposes this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EWhile we are talking about the Minister of Commerce bringing this bill into the House in urgency today, I will point out that it is 18 months since the National Government took the reigns of power. That is a long time, because Lianne Dalziel as the then Minister of Commerce introduced the first discussion document in 2006. Let us look at the environment at that time. Four years ago we started to feel nervous about the financial market and about investment companies. Since that time, 30 companies have gone to the wall and collapsed, so it is only in the last 4 years that that environment has started to cause some great unrest. The then Minister of Commerce moved very quickly to get a discussion document moving around the financial and investment sector. As a result of that, she introduced two bills into Parliament, which were supported by National. That is not doing nothing and it is not sitting back and watching the crash and burn of the financial sector. I wanted to put that on the record, and to acknowledge Lianne Dalziel\u2019s contribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI was an electorate MP at the time that the Blue Chip disaster started to occur, and I found that investors were travelling over from Tauranga because of the representation there at the time. They came to my office in Rotorua, desperately seeking some help. They were not what I would call mum and dad investors. They were sophisticated investors. They had invested up to $100,000, but I believe that they had a degree of naivety in the way that they were conned by Blue Chip at the time. The Minister came to a meeting in Tauranga and met with these investors. There was a whole roomful of them. They wanted the Minister to do something there and then to save and protect their money, and now they have other avenues of redress to try to recoup some of those massive losses of life-savings, which was incredibly sad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThe Minister moved quickly with the implementation of the Financial Advisers Act and the Financial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Act in 2008. At the same time in that environment, the Labour Government was looking at regulating other professions, such as the police, and we had also carried out a major legislative reform programme on health professionals. Financial advisers were another sector that was ripe for the plucking at that time in that environment. I just wanted to put that on the record. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI thought it was sad to hear the rhetoric we have heard from National after the consensual way in which the Commerce Committee has worked. That was reflected today by the technical experts in this debate, who were clearly on the Labour side of the House. I appreciated the contribution from Sam Lotu-Iiga, who put up a perspective, and also Melissa Lee. But the actual technical expertise sat with the previous Minister of Commerce, who is now sitting on the Opposition benches. I wanted to put that right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI am not now an electorate MP, but people are bringing their concerns to me, as a list MP, about loan sharks. That is a category, another class, that I urge the Government to have a look at. I think this is evolutionary legislation. This bill is amending legislation to allow the implementation of the regime. But I also believe that the Government now has to look at the principles of Carol Beaumont\u2019s member\u2019s bill. Loan sharks are another category that has to be regulated, and we have to move quite swiftly on this matter. This bill was the perfect tool to bring in those considerations, in the Committee of the whole House, through a Supplementary Order Paper. What a missed opportunity that will be. The Labour members in Opposition will be holding the Government to account on that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022 data-id=\u0022e085e6d81f0d4894911de7416b315c30\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e085e6d81f0d4894911de7416b315c30\u0022\u003EDr ASHRAF CHOUDHARY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, I acknowledge the good work that the previous Minister of Commerce, Lianne Dalziel, did in this area. I have known her for a number of years, and she is Labour\u2019s financial guru. A number of bills in this area were started by her, and she is now the chair of the Commerce Committee. I have had the opportunity on at least two or three occasions to sit on that committee. I must acknowledge that Lianne Dalziel single-handedly runs the nitty-gritty of the finance matters in that committee. I have heard even the Government MPs acknowledge the hard work that Lianne Dalziel does on that committee. I also acknowledge that other colleagues, such as Sam Lotu-Iiga and other friends, have done good work on the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003EI will speak briefly about the people who are subject to some of the, if you like, abuse by financial advisers. I live in Auckland, and my colleagues Pansy Wong, Melissa Lee, and Sam live there too. We are aware of some of the concerns that the ethnic communities\u2014the Pacific communities, and the Asian communities\u2014have, particularly about this area. Those concerns comprise two parts. One concern is about financial illiteracy, if you like. I am aware that a lot of people in Auckland have very little literacy in the area of finance and economics. They are often at the receiving end of wrong information and wrong advice, and they get ripped off. At the other end, there are, unfortunately, people in the same communities who have some financial knowledge and literacy, but who exploit their own people. I have heard a lot of stories about a number of people who have been exploited by so-called financial advisers. Often they are ripping off their own people in their own communities, which is very sad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003EThe Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill is a technical bill to tighten up the provisions in the current legislation, and clearly it is designed to help the people who are at the receiving end of wrong advice from financial advisers. I am very pleased that these issues are being tidied up, particularly given the fact that there are loan sharks out there, and, particularly, financial advisers who are ripping off people and selling mortgages that are unaffordable to some of the people who do not understand all the details about those issues. Also in the savings area, elderly people who have some savings want to put them in the right place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003EI welcome Ross Robertson to the Chamber, and also my colleague Su\u2019a William Sio. They have just arrived, probably from Auckland. They have been doing a good job out in the community, particularly in the area of the vulnerability of our people. [Interruption] I say to John Hayes that I feel he should acknowledge the good work that Lianne Dalziel has done. This is only his second term in the House, and he probably does not know about all the hard yards that have been done in the past. I say to John that we should give credit where it is due. Hard work has been done in the past, and we should acknowledge that. John Hayes has done some work on foreign affairs; I think we can acknowledge the work that he has done over the years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003EThere are risks involved, and I think we need to particularly help the people in our communities who have very little knowledge and understanding of financial matters. This bill is designed to help those people. I support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1a8c3ac67de45f79ef08c559e4c0f8f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1a8c3ac67de45f79ef08c559e4c0f8f\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E It is becoming increasingly frustrating to those of us who would like to have some answers from the Minister in the chair, the Hon Pansy Wong, placed on the record of the House. It is important that the questions that were raised post the report back are answered. We have had a truncated process. We have had really good progress in the Commerce Committee, and it has been ruined by the Committee stage, where I do not think we are being treated fairly. We need to have answers to those questions, because this is the last time that those questions can be addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI have asked reasonable questions, I believe. They were submitted to the Minister of Commerce on Monday by the representatives of Farmers Trading, TaxiCharge New Zealand, the New Zealand Taxi Federation, and Telecom. The questions are about those parties that are not contemplated to be covered by the legislation. All we need is a very clear statement in the Committee from the Minister that the issues in Part A of the email are addressed, and also the questions in Part B, which are new to me. They certainly are not the ones that I recall being raised at the select committee. I do not really mind how the Minister deals with them, whether they are addressed by amendment or by way of explanation, but it is important that they are dealt with. This is the last chance to get the legislation into its final technical form for the third reading later this morning. I do not want the Committee stage to go through until this afternoon, which is the alternative. We can just keep taking calls until we get the answers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe second issue I will raise, which I have not spent any time on, is the qualifying financial entity model. When I was the Minister of Commerce, we designed the qualifying financial entity model in order to provide a structure of responsibility that would sit around those who were employees and also\u2014as this legislation highlights\u2014those who are nominated representatives of the qualifying financial entities. The way it was designed to be structured was that if people were advising in the category 1 space only for products of their own, and otherwise advising generally in the category 2 space, then they would not have to be individually authorised as financial advisers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EA number of the banks came to see us at the select committee, and they put a tremendous amount of effort into helping us get this legislation right. One of the influences at the select committee was that we kept coming back to the essential question of what the risk was that we were trying to address. One banking case was outstanding, and that ruined it for the rest of the banks. Here is the front page of the New Zealand Herald this morning, as we debate in the Committee stage and final stages of this bill: \u201C$45 million: Investors win record fair trading payout for misleading claims\u201D. This was the advice that we had received at our committee over and over again. People were duped into believing that the risk they were confronting was nowhere near the level of risk that was actually being imposed on them. They were told in many instances that it was as safe as keeping the money in the bank. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI think that ANZ has let the side down, as it were, in terms of the banking industry. The banking industry in New Zealand has come out virtually unscathed from the global financial crisis in terms of what has happened with the deregulation of the industry in the international environment, because here it was very well prudentially supervised by the Reserve Bank, with very strict rules around it. Of course, those prudential rules now apply to the non-bank deposit sector. No, we did not apply those rules in time, but I do not know how one could have applied something in time when one was starting the consultation process on the provisions for the non-bank deposit takers and the review of financial products and providers only in the year that the first three collapses occurred, and when one had announced the result of the Cabinet decisions on those matters 1 month before Bridgecorp collapsed. You know, I must have been the unluckiest Minister in history, I guess, to have held the portfolio at that time. But I think it is unreasonable to play the blame game and, actually, nobody has really done that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe previous Labour Government inherited a regulatory wasteland. It took us a long time to put lots of regulation in place, and we made a lot of regulations in the financial sector. When it came to the crunch, both parties in the House agreed to work together, and that is the way we have proceeded. We proceeded that way when we were in Government. We had a letter from the now Prime Minister of New Zealand addressed to the then Prime Minister of New Zealand offering that support. I think that it is not necessary to play the blame game, because both of the main parties are responsible as regulators in the parliamentary sense for getting this right, and I think that they have worked very well together in order to improve the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe qualifying financial entity model was designed to provide a true incentive for organisations to take full responsibility for the training and delivery of financial advice at an institutional level that is appropriate to the needs of customers. We have all sorts of protections written into the law, but, essentially, a qualifying financial entity risks losing its status as a qualifying financial entity if it gets it wrong. I think that is an incredibly powerful incentive, and that is why I was very much in favour of finding a mechanism to ensure that the banks and other institutions could take responsibility for what they were doing on the job when it was their own product. We said no to outside products, and I think we said no to outside products for a good reason. The headline news in the New Zealand Herald is an example of that very good reason. I think there is a risk when we have part-branded products, as with the ING (NZ) product from ANZ. We have the real risk that the people who are telling people what to do with their money do not see the degree of risk that those people are actually confronting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI would like the Minister in the chair\u2014I am getting a bit depressed about this now\u2014to answer some of my questions. I do so genuinely, because it is not a question of satisfying me in my position as chair of the select committee. We have referred the bill back to the House. We have done our work at the select committee. But, given that we have virtually rewritten every single clause of the bill, if people are still raising some concerns since the report back, then this is the right place and the right time to raise them. If the Minister could just read into the record what the answers to those questions are, it means that we know where we are going in terms of the future, and it means that those who have raised the concerns will know that they have been heard and responded to by the Government. As I said, I have read into the record what I understand to be the case in respect of one of those questions, but other questions still remain unanswered. I think it is very important that we have those questions answered at this last opportunity before the legislation moves into its third reading, where we will be unable to correct it any further. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThat is a reasonable summary of where I am up to. I am not saying that this will be my last call; I actually hope that it is. I hope that the Minister is able to provide us with the advice that I am seeking on behalf of others. I am getting a warm indication that some work is going on that will assist the Committee in the progress of this bill, and I am well pleased to see that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3a5a93614c745508adc56c0b3d92a35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3a5a93614c745508adc56c0b3d92a35\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a brief call in this Committee stage of the debate. I do so for several reasons. The first reason I do it is because many of my constituents in New Lynn are among the thousands of New Zealanders whose life savings have been stolen from them by shonky finance companies. For too many senior citizens, for people who have worked all their lives on modest incomes, who have scrimped and saved to put aside the pennies and build up a nest egg for their retirement, who may not have a high degree of financial literacy or specialist education, and who are reliant on the good faith of those who have held themselves out as the intermediaries of the finance sector, their life savings have gone. They have been stolen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022117a4c5209924b16b8db0f6959d9a7dd\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Under whose administration?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ce454da159a44749ba330ed77be03cc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: If the member opposite disagrees with this analysis, then he should say so; otherwise, he should listen. It is absolutely reprehensible that the companies that are now filling the front pages of our newspapers, like ING (NZ), owned by a major New Zealand bank, have now left many thousands of senior citizens bereft of most of their savings\u2014in that case, even after the Commerce Commission has had to weigh in. While Mark Hotchin, the poster boy of irresponsible greed, is building a palace on Paritai Drive\u2014well, I say \u201Cbuilding\u201D; he has not paid his contractors, so building has stopped\u2014tens of thousands of investors have seen their savings disappear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c965f321efe44ecb93c101c6f581036\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Crocodile tears.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d7972db9d90485f9297e80540434277\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: These are not crocodile tears. I grew up in a family that did not have money to spare, and that could not have saved the way the way these people save. I know what it is like to go without. A lot of my constituents are going without because of the greed, the profligacy, and the venality of these people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIt is fair cop, though, to recognise two things. Firstly, there is now a bipartisan effort under way in this Parliament, which this bill represents, to clean this mess up once and for all. I commend the Government for carrying forward the work that the Hon Lianne Dalziel and the previous Cabinet commenced. Now, in the best of all worlds, I believe it is fair to say that in hindsight we could have moved somewhat quicker on some of these matters, but some of the issues were masked by the property bubble that existed in New Zealand, as it did worldwide, and hindsight is always 20/20. But I tell you what, this Labour Opposition believes this is a hugely important issue and we will not stop until this mess is cleaned up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EI will give a personal view now. I look forward to the day when it is impossible for financial advisers to receive a fee from a company for a financial product they are advising on. They should be paid a fee for service, in the same way as doctor or an accountant is paid. They should not be disguised salespeople for wholesale finance companies or the purveyors of financial products. If in practice they are, then they must be held to the highest standards of transparency so that their obligations are transparent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EI also want to mention, in my role as finance spokesperson, a macroeconomic implication of this mess, and that is that New Zealand has a huge savings deficit. It is killing us. It is the primary reason that our current account is bleeding red, and it cannot be solved until we get the savings rate up. New Zealanders are asking what they can save in and with. They say they cannot put their money on the stock exchange, because some of them do not understand stocks. They are told they should not put it into real estate, for good reason, so they put it into finance companies, and those companies burnt them. They stole their savings. This bill is essential from a macroeconomic point of view as well as from a fairness and ethics point of view. We need to get our rate of savings up. We need to have high standards of integrity and transparency for the good of the investor and the good of the country. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022bec2e6763a7a46f5a18994914f006e44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bec2e6763a7a46f5a18994914f006e44\u0022\u003EH V ROSS ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Manukau East):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora t\u0101tou. N\u014D reira te Whare, e ng\u0101 iwi, e ng\u0101 reo, e ng\u0101 hau e wh\u0101. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EIn respect of the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill, one can only say that it is about time. The National Government has been in office for nigh on 18 months, and only now is it bringing forward this legislation. I have to say to the Committee that as Labour\u2019s spokesperson on senior citizens I am appalled at the slowness of the implementation of this legislation. One could say it is too little, too late. Even so, I have to acknowledge that at least the Government has at last moved on this legislation. Time and time again as I go around this country advocating for and addressing small-business people and Grey Power groups, one of the things that I am told about is their concern about the slackness and the sloppiness of the financial sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EWhy is this legislation necessary? It is simple. It is to protect unsophisticated investors, many of whom are elderly and rely on the additional income of an investment to give them some sense of security and comfort in their old age. Why has it taken so long? I have to acknowledge the work of my colleague and friend Lianne Dalziel. She brought legislation into the House in 2008, and she did so because the Government at the time\u2014the fifth Labour Government, led by the Rt Hon Helen Clark\u2014recognised that more needed to be done in the financial adviser regime. Thank goodness things are now starting to move. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThe elderly are our most vulnerable and unsophisticated investors and they need proper financial advice. This bill should ensure that robust advice is available for all who need it. I acknowledge the support of the honourable member Sam Lotu-Iiga, who endorsed the views of members on this side of the Chamber: it is about time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EInvestors who have lost money in around 50 mismanaged finance companies\u2014including Bridgecorp, Hanover Finance, St Laurence, and Strategic Finance\u2014are up in arms, and so they should be. These people want answers from the Minister of Commerce as to why only one finance company has been singled out and put into statutory management.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a4372ccb81343f586dd51a8e5432aae\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member. If there are going to be discussions, I ask that they be taken outside the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7bb92c49f4e4529b440a6ce0d6099d6\u0022\u003EH V ROSS ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chairman; I appreciate the indulgence of the Committee. Only one company has been put into statutory management\u2014only one. Mr Hubbard, a senior citizen down in the South Island, has been singled out. Why has he been singled out when others under similar circumstances have been allowed to go into moratorium and receivership? Investors out there tell me that they believe that this move by the Government proves that authorities have been negligent for too long. Investors are asking why it has been only Mr Hubbard. Although it is agreed that statutory management may be necessary to protect the parties in the Hubbard case, they ask why it has been only Mr Hubbard. The authorities have evidence that many finance companies have committed offences. Not one of the failed finance companies has been put into statutory management since the finance collapse began, yet obvious malpractice has occurred. Who loses out? The unsophisticated investor; the person who is not aware. Many of them are senior citizens, whom I represent in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224199bb46ecab4c2bb824bd48737a4a12\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: You didn\u2019t look after them for 9 years; you dropped them in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252bb207f771845ba803756ff03e7d89f\u0022\u003EH V ROSS ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I did look after them. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00225446b7e1b1314a4d879b8c66b029dbb1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225446b7e1b1314a4d879b8c66b029dbb1\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I feel that I ought to follow up the contribution from Ross Robertson with a mea culpa, because if anyone was supposed to put the finance companies that failed in 2006, 2007, and 2008 into statutory management it was me. My colleague was inadvertently criticising the former Minister of Commerce. So I thought it was important that I stand up and reclaim my integrity in this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EIn respect of the Hubbard case I state for the record, and it has been stated by the Minister\u2014and I do not think it is appropriate for us to debate that matter at this moment\u2014that the only way that the Minister of Commerce can put a company into statutory management is on the recommendation of the Securities Commission. There is no right in law for the Minister to operate in isolation of that recommendation, and once the commission makes that recommendation there is a requirement, really, on the Minister to act on that recommendation. That is the appropriate way\u2014my colleague is assisting from the side here. It is the appropriate course of action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238320c6e3d2546e8a2df158673cd5079\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m always right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eba253c1b229496eab719ed0b23fc647\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Of course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224bbca74c988425c8f287babe516ae28\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Always assisting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223815b26f69cd43b5ab2d349f7b8523d6\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: He is always assisting. But the point I am making is that the reason it has to be that way is that the investigative powers of the Securities Commission have got to be called into play in order to provide a Minister with the advice that is required before placing a company into statutory management. A range of different processes can be put into place in relation to a company that is failing. Statutory management is the most extreme of those. There are also, of course, receiverships, and there has been the development of the model of moratoria. It is the moratoria that have deeply concerned me, and I know that members of the Commerce Committee share this concern. I note also that John Boscawen from the ACT Party has raised concerns in this regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI think that one of the problems we have in dealing with this legislation in isolation from what is to come next is the amalgamation of the regulatory functions of the Securities Commission, the Companies Office, and some aspects of the stock exchange into the new regulator that the Government is proceeding with. I am supportive of that, and I think it is a very good move, but it has meant another delay in the release of one of the most important discussion documents that we are waiting for, and that is the review of the Securities Act. I think that piece of work will bring the whole lot together, and this bill is an important component of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EPeople forget\u2014and I know that we chip each other across the Chamber\u2014that the Review of Financial Products and Providers produced nine documents that followed on from the Task Force on the Regulation of Financial Intermediaries. The financial intermediaries document was consulted on when I was not the Minister of Commerce. It was consulted on in 2005. At the end of 2005 I picked up the portfolio, and I think one of the first Cabinet papers that I took through Cabinet was the results of the report of the Task Force on the Regulation of Financial Intermediaries. That is when the beginning of the process on financial advisers occurred in terms of the legislative timetable. Then the Review of Financial Products and Providers produced nine documents covering the myriad different components of what makes up our financial sector. It was a considerable amount of work. I think if we had gone straight to regulation in 2006, we would have been rightly criticised for not doing sufficient consultation with those affected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI am not shying away from the fact that we would all have liked to see things pan out differently. I must admit that as the Minister of Commerce I had many sleepless nights. There were many times when I woke up in the morning wondering what the lead item would be on Morning Report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0213bfbf2a84fea8672b54268add366\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0213bfbf2a84fea8672b54268add366\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to take just a brief call to go into some more detail on the concerns adverted to by my colleague Lianne Dalziel earlier. Before I do so I remind the Committee of the whole House of the history of this legislative process. The two original pieces of legislation, the financial services legislation and the financial providers registration legislation, were enacted by the House in 2008. That process was beset by deadlines, as this legislation has been. It would be a shame if, given all the work that all parties and all members, particularly those on the Commerce Committee, have put into this legislation, we were to fail to get it right at the last hurdle, as it were. So I ask the Minister in the chair\u2014I see it is the Hon Pansy Wong\u2014whether she could address the two issues that have been raised with a number of parliamentarians in an email from Rae Nield.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003ERae Nield has sent this email to Simon Power, Chris Finlayson, Heather Roy, Lianne Dalziel, me, and John Boscawen. I have made a copy available to the National Party backbenchers who serve on the Commerce Committee and to the officials, so that they can be clear about the concern. I want to say before I address the two issues that Rae Nield has a very successful legal practice in this area, and she submitted to the committee on each piece of legislation. We found her submissions helpful and found that they had force. If she is raising a concern at this stage, we must take this last opportunity we have to address it; otherwise, we would have to come up with specific amending legislation later in the piece. I signal on behalf of the Labour Party that if the Government needs to take a moment to address the issue\u2014if there is a need to do some last-minute drafting\u2014we will not put any obstacles in the way of that course being adopted, or object to any leave application for that purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe two concerns are that the legislation as reported back from the committee may apply much more widely than intended; that instead of it being restricted to those industries contemplated by Financial Action Task Force on Money Laundering requirements, it may go more widely than we intended, as a result of the industry not being consulted properly because of the time frames I referred to earlier. There was mention of this point in the submissions to the select committee, and at the time the select committee did say to the submitters who raised it that we certainly did not intend to do that. If we have done it inadvertently, I think we need to address it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe remaining specific issue on this point is that despite the broad coverage of the two pieces of legislation, inclusion within the regime is by regulating out, not by regulating in. There is arguably still a degree of commercial uncertainty for those businesses that may have been incorporated. The examples in the message that we received are retailers with gift cards, prepaid mobile phones and mobile phone billing services, taxi billing services, and other categories of financial services. Obviously, the intention was not to embrace those categories of industry. They would be surprised to be included in this legislation, and there is no obvious public policy benefit in including them. So although it appears that there is now provision to make regulations to detach registration from compulsory dispute resolution scheme membership, which is in clause 33A, and for completely exempting services or classes of service, which is in clause 37B for registration and clause 79 for the disputes resolution scheme membership\u2014and, for dividing into separate classes, clause 37B for registration\u2014these will not in themselves necessarily provide for trader certainty. Traders caught in the broad definitions of the legislation are included unless exempted. They are exempted only if they are not covered by the Financial Action Task Force on Money Laundering as far as registration is concerned, and only if the Minister is satisfied that the cost of compliance is unreasonable or not justified by compliance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EWe need to hear from the Minister in the chair whether the bill has inadvertently caught this broad group of traders, because if it has, most of them will not know it. If they do not know it, they will not know that they need to apply for an exemption, and the Minister then will not be able to say whether it is too costly for them to comply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe second concern that has been raised\u2014and I would be grateful, and I am sure the rest of the Committee would be, too, if the Minister could address this, as well\u2014is the issue raised by new section 49D in clause 38B. Under this provision, which essentially relates to the binding nature of rulings in the dispute resolution scheme, a complainant can apply to a District Court for a review of any final settlement, and the dispute resolution service can apply for such a review, but there is no provision for the respondent financial services provider to apply for a review. So although the District Court in question could amend a manifestly unreasonable provision, it could do that only on the application of the complainant or the provider of the dispute resolution scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI think it is correct to point out that, at least on its face, that is a breach of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, particularly section 27, which guarantees access to justice to every person\u2014every person including, obviously, legal as well as natural persons. The other issue that is worth adverting to is if that is a breach, given that it has come in the bill as it has been reported back from the select committee there will not have been a chance to have it vetted by the Crown Law Office and be the subject of a report from the Attorney-General as to inconsistency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIf the respondent does not carry out a non-pecuniary order from the dispute resolution system, it is committing a criminal offence incurring a fine of up to $200,000. I think that shows how serious this potential breach is. I think that if the committee had been confronted with this point fairly and squarely, it would have asked the officials to suggest an amendment, and strongly urged the House to rectify the apparent error so that all parties to a disputed resolution order could go on to a District Court and have the alleged error heard and, if proven, rectified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThose are the two points that it would be helpful to hear from Pansy Wong on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2e885ce7b1942f5a3c50d6ce6e13182\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2e885ce7b1942f5a3c50d6ce6e13182\u0022\u003EHon PANSY WONG (Minister for Ethnic Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I thank members for their contributions and questions. I have a collection of four questions; I will try to address them slowly. I think they are good questions, and we welcome them and will do our homework to address them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EI will tackle the first one. I understand it was raised by the Hon Lianne Dalziel, and is about the concern that retailers who engage in credit sales may be caught by the initial financial services legislation. She asked whether we have made an amendment to make sure they are not caught under the Financial Advisers Act. The amendment is on Supplementary Order Paper 146, under \u201CClause 7: new section 13\u201D. I hope that addresses the member\u2019s good question. People whose principal activity is not financial services will not get caught under the new legislation. That is the first question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe second question is whether organisations like Telecom, TaxiCharge, and the like have to be registered as financial advisers. At this stage, the Minister of Commerce would consider that and make a decision. There are two parts to the exemption: one is whether they need to register, and the second is whether they need to be involved in the dispute resolution scheme. The Minister would make a policy announcement on whether they can be exempt from both of those, whether they can be exempt from one, or whatever. We undertake to address that issue. We really want to reflect on the matter and to make sure it is right. I understand that if we do need to do anything it can be done by regulation, so it would not unduly hold up anything. I acknowledge the effort on both sides of the Chamber. We aim to make the legislation work. Nobody wants to hold up anything unnecessarily, but we also want to get it right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EI understand the third issue that was raised with me is the ability of advisers to opt into the scheme. The Minister has undertaken to consult with stakeholders, because we want to make sure that if we go ahead with the provision, which will be in the form of regulation, we get it right. We are looking at a time frame of around 2 months. We want to do consultation; we want to make the regulation right. So that is the third issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe fourth issue is what Charles Chauvel just raised in terms of new section 49D in clause 38B: why have we crossed out the words \u201Cor a complainant\u201D? Section 49D is not aimed to be an appeal section. The purpose of that particular clause is to enforce decisions on people who have a case taken against them\u2014it is an enforcement section. The reason that we crossed out \u201Cor a complainant\u201D is that we believe that enforcement action is more effective if it is not taken by the complainant. So it is not dealing with the appeal right; it is more about enforcing a decision that is made under dispute resolution. We thought the power would be better exercised by people who operate the scheme rather than by the complainant. So there is absolutely no intention to create mischief. I emphasise that that section aims to enforce the dispute resolution result, and we think it is better that the person who runs the scheme enforce it. It is not conferring an appeal right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00224120039251284682bfc3fbffe715ed1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224120039251284682bfc3fbffe715ed1b\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E Not that I am used to having the last word on these matters, but I thought I would refer the Committee to the fact that the Government released the discussion document on the Securities Act review yesterday. I am told it is 200 pages long. It seeks views on which financial products are to be regulated and how; tailoring of disclosure requirements to better suit a retail investor audience; improving governance of managed funds, which are a key product for retail investors; and possible additional powers for the new financial markets authority. Submissions close on 20 August. I commend the Government for the release, at last, of the Securities Act review. I appreciate the Minister for Ethnic Affairs taking the time to respond to those questions; I think we are better informed, and I think those who have raised concerns will now have some comfort that they have been addressed by the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 146 in the name of the Hon Simon Power be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2, schedule, and clauses 1 and 2, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Committee divided the bill into the Financial Advisers Amendment Bill (No 2) and the Financial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Amendment Bill, pursuant to Supplementary Order Paper 147.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221720ac424ba940a99c041ce1dd4a5ea5\u0022\u003EFinancial Advisers Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221720ac424ba940a99c041ce1dd4a5ea5\u0022\u003EFinancial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022926aed2e6aa24609ba2c38242fad4a7a\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022 data-id=\u00224ff935accde748988be80a416798badb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ff935accde748988be80a416798badb\u0022\u003EHon PANSY WONG (Minister for Ethnic Affairs) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Commerce: I move, That the Financial Advisers Amendment Bill (No 2) and the Financial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. I acknowledge the cooperation of all parties in the House. We all want to ensure that confidence is restored in our financial market, and this is a step towards that. This legislation makes a number of amendments to the Financial Advisers Act and the Financial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Act, which were passed in 2008 by the previous Government to increase confidence in New Zealand\u2019s financial system. Under the regime, financial advisers have to meet minimum standards of professionalism and have to make informative disclosure to clients while being subject to Securities Commission oversight. Furthermore, all financial service providers, including financial advisers, are required to belong to an approved dispute resolution scheme if they offer services to the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe legislation maintains the fundamental framework of registered advisers, authorised advisers, and qualifying financial entities established by the two primary Acts. However, these amendment bills reduce compliance costs and focus the regime on the core area of concern: personalised financial advice to retail clients. Compliance costs are reduced under these bills by clarifying key terms and requirements. Exemption and regulation-making powers are expanded, and the qualifying financial entity model is amended to account for the realities of business operations. The Financial Advisers Act is also amended to establish a practical regime for the regulation of money handling by financial brokers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThese changes respond to concerns raised in the past 2 years about the practicalities of making the regime work as we approach full implementation. Regulatory efficiency is vitally important, but as I have consistently stated, this regime is about restoring investor and consumer confidence. To this end, the bill expands the powers of the Securities Commission so that it can more effectively perform its duties in the specific ambit of personalised services to retail clients. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EI thank the Commerce Committee, officials, and the wider industry for engaging so conscientiously on this legislation. The next step is implementation, and I expect the industry to engage constructively with regulators to ensure that the regime is fully in place on time. I also expect officials to complete the regulations needed to finalise the remaining details in a timely fashion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EAs previously announced, financial service providers will need to be registered under the Financial Service Providers Act and become a member of an approved dispute resolution scheme by 1 December of this year. Financial advisers, however, have until 31 March next year to be registered, allowing those seeking approval from the Securities Commission for authorisation status to obtain the necessary approval by 1 July next year. The Government recognises that it needs to rebuild mum and dad investors\u2019 trust in capital markets, which has been severely dented by the global recession and finance company collapses. We want everyday investors to feel more confident about putting their savings into capital markets, through understanding the basics of investment, getting advice they can trust, and making informed choices. This regime is an important part of the wide-ranging reform agenda for financial sector regulation, which is crucial to economic growth and the well-being of New Zealanders. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u002296a8ed6dfd5b40eb89b2e100b55dce07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296a8ed6dfd5b40eb89b2e100b55dce07\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to follow the Minister and offer our continuing support for the passage of the Financial Advisers Amendment Bill (No 2) and the Financial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Amendment Bill. I am very pleased to have been able to play a role as the chair of the Commerce Committee. I am pleased to have worked very closely with members of the Government and with the Minister and the staff of his office, and also with the officials, parliamentary counsel, and, of course, those all-important stakeholders who make up our crucial financial sector, which is so important to our economic recovery and also to our future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI have already said in my second reading speech, so I probably do not need to repeat\u2014but I will\u2014that I think people worked together in a very positive and constructive way and it would be wrong not to mention it again. I pay tribute to the House for being prepared to set aside, essentially, a Standing Order to allow for the officials\u2019 documentation to go to stakeholders so that they could remain engaged in the process of deliberating with the select committee in many respects, ensuring that we had the best-quality advice on how this legislation would work on the ground. The House gave our committee a fantastic signal of trust, but I would like us to consider whether we need to rethink some of our Standing Orders and whether we have too much of a closed environment once legislation goes to a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI reflect often on the United States of America, where one sees the head of BP before a Senate committee and the person gets grilled. I would like to do that with some of these finance company directors. It would be so neat to be able to hold them to account in our Parliament. Maybe we need a slightly more open process in our select committees, and perhaps the media need to take a little bit more interest in the work that we are doing. I have always described our select committees as the engine room of Parliament. They are not the engine room of Government; Cabinet is. Select committees are the engine room of Parliament, and I think the work that they do is important. These bills stand tribute to the efforts of our team that supported us, and our select committee clerks, and I would like the Office of the Clerk to take that comment back to them. We really were incredibly well supported. We worked to impossible deadlines, and they really delivered for us, so we are very grateful to them for that. We are also grateful to the officials, as I have mentioned before, and to the wider stakeholders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI have already had my little confessional moment, my mea culpa, where I have confessed that as the previous Minister of Commerce I did not have my head around the technical detail of how the legislation that I was responsible for would work on the ground as well as I do now as the select committee chair. Select committee members are in a privileged position, in that they have a higher level of input into the development of that technical detail, and, of course, they have that wider support from stakeholders. I do not know that this is a failing in the system, because certainly the feedback from people whom I spoke to was that we really could not tell how it would work in practice until we started implementing the legislation. It was during that phase that people started to say that the legislation introduced by the Government does not actually go far enough and does not address many of the concerns that they had and the difficulties they were coming up against in terms of its implementation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EOf course, the other group is lawyers. I know that I should not be saying this, as I am standing next to my very good colleague Charles Chauvel, but lawyers\u2014and I confess to being one of those as well\u2014have a habit of looking for problems. That is how they get paid: they get paid to solve problems, but they have to find them first. Unfortunately, I think that some of the advice given to those in the sector raised concerns that were not really valid, in my view. But the fact that lawyers were raising those concerns with those particular companies and individuals meant that they had to take action; they had to prepare themselves for that to be the interpretation, just in case. So it was right and proper that they brought those concerns to the select committee in the submissions process. We listened to those concerns and, as a result, we have better legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThere are not many opportunities in this House for a previous Minister to also have the privilege, in a different role as the chair of the select committee, of seeing through changes to the original legislation that one has brought in. I make no secret of the fact that I would rather be the Minister, but I am not. But, in playing that particular role, I was very, very grateful to be able to make a contribution, and I think we did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI said in my second reading speech that an exposure draft bill accompanying discussion documents at an early stage of the process, in the way that experts in the field are consulted on tax bills, would improve the process. I know that some people would be concerned that some of the interests in the financial sector would be self-serving, but in the entire time that I was Minister, not once did any stakeholders say to me that they did not want regulation. They all wanted regulation in this field. Why? It is because the sector requires confidence. It does not operate without confidence. People do not invest unless they know they can do so with confidence. The sector knows that it needs that confidence restored if it wants our financial markets to flourish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe last thing I want to comment on is the people who have lost money. I will never ever in my life forget the meetings that I had with people, from one end of this country to the other, who had lost money. I do not know how many meetings I had with people who had lost money in finance companies\u2014for instance, who lost money in Blue Chip, which fell outside the system. We now have a law that will capture the Blue Chips of the future, and if the law is not tight enough\u2014there are people out there who are looking to avoid the application of the law; that is their job, and they do it every second of every hour of every day\u2014we now have provisions in place that will enable the Securities Commission to haul them into the frame. That will ensure there are better protections in place for the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EBut I give a warning to people who want to invest, and that is to take good-quality advice. People can ask questions of their advisers, and ask who is paying the way for them. Issues relating to commissions still need to be addressed, but I will never forget meeting those people who lost money. At a time when we want to encourage people to save, we are not necessarily providing all the best options for people to consider doing that. The people who lost money were variously described by various media as being greedy, as being out for a higher interest rate, and as knowing very well the risks that they were taking. I cannot say honestly to this House that I met anyone whom I would describe as greedy. I met people who had been conned. I met people who had been duped. I met people who had no idea of the level of risk that they were taking with their hard-earned money. I met people who were so embarrassed at what they had done that they did not tell their adult sons and daughters what they had done with their inheritance. Essentially, the money was all gone, and they were embarrassed that they had fallen for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThese people require some protection, but at the end of the day, where there is risk and the rate of return is proportionate, it is balanced against that risk, the Government cannot make the risk go away because then there would be no financial sector. At the end of the day, people need to understand what those risks are and they need to take good-quality advice. This legislation means that they can rely on this sector again, and I am very pleased to have played a role in achieving that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2d0e72d0b6f441d95d93f10f0fe12d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2d0e72d0b6f441d95d93f10f0fe12d4\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E It is a privilege to speak to the third readings of the legislation arising from the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill. Much has been said this morning and last night on this legislation. I do not want to regurgitate what has already been said over and over again, except to say that it was a pleasure to work on this legislation, personally speaking. It was a pleasure because members of the Commerce Committee were working effectively as a team. Putting political differences aside, we worked together as a team with the clerks, the Parliamentary Counsel Office, and the industry stakeholders who came and presented submissions, and there were many of them. There were also those who contacted us personally through emails and calls. People care about this sector, and that is why there was such huge interest in this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThis legislation is not just a collaboration between the lawmakers, the officials, and the stakeholders. It is a collaboration with the practitioners. This legislation is designed to provide a degree of certainty and confidence in capital markets, because, at the end of the day, capital markets provide the basis on which businesses thrive, through access to capital. Obviously, that leads to jobs and opportunities, and the prosperity of this country depends very much on our having confident and robust capital markets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EWe had to balance out the competing interests, and they were quite clear. There was an interest in protecting investors who were investors of all different classes. They were wealthy investors, not-so-wealthy investors, elderly investors, and investors whom some might call unsophisticated or vulnerable. We sought to protect in this legislation a number of types of investor by regulating the affairs of intermediaries and financial advisers. We were careful not to over-regulate to the extent that some would feel the need not to be part of this industry. So those were the basic competing interests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EAs I said earlier on in the debate, I believe that the regulator\u2014or super-regulator, as it is about to become\u2014must be well resourced in its role of monitoring the advisers in the industry. It must enforce, because enforcement is the key to deterring those who think they can get away with the types of acts that have been talked about during this debate. Enforcement and the imposition of appropriate sentencing and penalties are important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThis legislation will not solve all the problems in the financial industry; I think we have been clear about that. But, certainly, this legislation has put together enough submissions, ideas, and principles of the industry for us to be confident the industry will go forth with some trust and a degree of integrity. I support this legislation. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022c20bc334275f46169cfe32789b30c6de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c20bc334275f46169cfe32789b30c6de\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I welcome the third readings of the Financial Advisers Amendment Bill (No 2) and the Financial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Amendment Bill. I echo the comments that my colleagues have made to thank officials and stakeholders for the work that they have put into making the legislation, hopefully, a success. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIt is true that the members of the Commerce Committee worked hard, under the whip of their very diligent chairperson, the Hon Lianne Dalziel. The work put in, in terms of the number of hours spent sitting beyond normal sitting times, reflects the desire to get the legislation as right as is humanly possible so that investors are never again disadvantaged in our financial services market as they have been over the last few years. It is terrible that people have lost their savings as a result of the lack of proper regulation in those markets. Parliament should have regulated the sector earlier. It is good that we are finally doing so, and it is to be hoped that the legislation will serve its purpose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI pick up on a comment that Lianne Dalziel made about the attempts the committee made to ensure that its process was inclusive. We had a suggested series of amendments from the Government, which came to us quite late in the piece. We wanted to make sure that people knew about those suggested amendments, so, as Lianne Dalziel has indicated, we agreed as a committee to try to open up the process more than the Standing Orders would normally allow. We got the House to authorise a process whereby folk who were interested could essentially stay in the loop with regard to the work of the committee and the advice that we were receiving from officials. That is a good process. Sometimes I think we pat ourselves on the back as a Parliament a little too much about being open to public submissions, because, sure, we are open in that way on a comparative basis but we could always be looking to improve those processes. This process certainly provided for a greater public input and a greater interested-person input than would otherwise have been the case if the Standing Orders had been applied strictly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI want to say something about the Supplementary Order Papers that were tabled at a very late stage in the piece. We always knew that technical amendments would be coming from the Minister of Commerce to the Committee of the whole House. But I have had texts and emails today saying that there is a problem with the parliamentary website on the Internet. People have not been able to access the texts of the Supplementary Order Papers. They have not been able to make their views known at this late stage, as they tend to do via email to members directly when a late Government Supplementary Order Paper comes forward. That also, obviously, has ramifications for MPs themselves who are relying on remote access and want to see a proposed amendment at a late stage. If we want to be an open legislature, we need to use new technologies to make sure that we are accessible to the public. We need to make sure that the technologies are actually working. I see that the Clerk at the Table is making a phone call now, and hopefully that will do something to remedy the situation. But unfortunately, given that we are now in the third reading debate, it is too late. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI also point to the indisputable fact that there is no justification for legislating under urgency, in respect of this bill. The example that I have just used is probably a very good illustration of why we should not be doing this under the extraordinary procedures that the Standing Orders allow to the Government if it has a majority on an urgency motion. If we had had a bit more time, so that those Supplementary Order Papers could have been properly considered, could have been read by the public, and could have had some time for input, then we might have been able to make sure and to satisfy ourselves that we were not legislating inadvertently. I do not think any members could put their hand on their heart and say that they have read thoroughly the Supplementary Order Papers that have come in at the last moment. I certainly have not had a chance to. There might be one member, who is sitting next to me, who claims she can, and I would not doubt her word. But, generally speaking, the Supplementary Order Papers are not accessible in the way they should have been, and they certainly have not been accessible to the public. Urgency for this legislation makes it worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI will say a word in defence of lawyers, because they have been sorely defamed by my colleague in this process. Of course, what participants in the financial services industry have had to do when faced with significant new pieces of legislation from Parliament, such as the Financial Advisers Act, the Financial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Act, and now the pre-implementation legislation, is go to their lawyers and ask what the ramifications are for this new set of rules that Parliament is visiting on them. It has to be said that we have a very sophisticated profession in this country, particularly when it comes to financial services. We are lucky still to have that level of sophistication. It is something that will hopefully stand us in good stead going forward if the Government\u2019s stated aims to have a financial services hub or industry in this country ever come to anything. I do not see a lot of activity or action in moving that aspiration forward. It would no doubt be a good thing, but if we are to have it, it will be in part because we have those sophisticated transactional lawyers available to advise such parts of the financial services industry that are still based in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIn that regard I will say a word about the approach that has been adopted by the House in this particular legislation. It was an approach that was taken by the previous Labour Government; this is a conversation I had with the previous Minister of Commerce when I was chairing the Commerce Committee in the last Parliament that heard submissions on the providers and advisers bills. Many of the financial institutions that operate in New Zealand also operate in Australia. Many of them are branch offices of larger entities that have headquarters across the ditch. Why do we not simply adopt a similar, or virtually the same, regulatory regime that the Australians operate in this area? Why do we not negotiate to have a joint regulatory approach with joint regulators? I understand that there is some proposal that we might take this approach in competition regulation, with the chairman of our Commerce Commission being dual-warranted in respect of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission. That is a very good approach; it is very sensible. It will keep costs down for these businesses because they will have to have just one compliance approach trans-Tasman, rather than have one set of rules that they comply with in Australia and another set of rules they have to comply with in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIf we take the single economic market seriously and if we want to give meaning to the idea of Prime Minister Rudd\u2019s visit next week, then this is the sort of approach we should be trying to negotiate with the Australians across the board. This should be instead of having things like separate competition authorities, separate financial regulators, and now, for goodness\u2019 sake, a separate productivity commission, which is a bureaucracy to be created, we are told, by this Government to perform exactly the same role as its counterpart across the Tasman. Instead, we should be cooperating much more and seeking negotiated solutions that do not expose businesses to double sets of compliance across the two jurisdictions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThat is the not the path that has been chosen by Parliament. The path is the one that we are debating today. I wish the regime well and I hope it makes a difference to vulnerable financial services provider consumers. I hope we will see an end to the ripping off of mum and dad investors. Let us hope it is a step on the way. Let us hope that in a couple of weeks\u2019 time, on the next members\u2019 day, we will also see the Government taking a consistent approach to financial services regulation and agreeing to support my colleague Carol Beaumont\u2019s bill to regulate the loan shark sector, because that is another sector where people are vulnerable and require protection. There is no reason why we should not provide it in one part of the industry as we are today. To deny it to the most vulnerable, as it appears the Government intends to in a couple of weeks, would be a real shame. It would be a failure on the part of this Parliament to provide the protection that New Zealand consumers deserve. I hope that the National and ACT Party members will rethink their stated approach on that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u00222c8662ac91bf4c6ab17e40c36efb5580\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c8662ac91bf4c6ab17e40c36efb5580\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E E te Rangat\u016B pai mua o te Reo o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. We all agree that things must change in terms of creating an environment where integrity, accountability, and transparency actually count for something. One of the clearest indications that things are changing is that we are able to link to the Ministry of Economic Development website\u2014I pick up on what Charles Chauvel said: the site is down at the moment, but normally we can do that\u2014and have immediate access to the papers that are on there. I refer in particular to the Cabinet paper that proposed the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation) Adjustments Bill a mere 6 weeks ago. There is no need to apply for material under the Official Information Act or to make panicked calls to the Minister and the Minister\u2019s officials for a briefing; it is all there on the website as clear as day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EI like the sound of the proposals in the paper, dated 3 May 2010. They tell me that under the Financial Advisers Act advisers will now have to register, obtain authorisation, comply with the competency and conduct obligations, and make a full disclosure before providing advice to a client. The paper goes further and promotes the establishment of a regulatory framework that is designed to encourage public confidence in the integrity and professionalism of financial advisers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EAs every member of this House knows, the issues of integrity and accountability in the finance sector are absolutely pivotal. Given this fact, I was somewhat surprised that out of the 93 submissions received on this bill, only one submission came from M\u0101ori. Mind you, the M\u0101ori submission was fairly substantial and came from the M\u0101ori Trustee. The M\u0101ori Trustee wanted amendments to the bill to clarify and limit the scope of an estate or interest in land and to provide an express exclusion for the M\u0101ori Trustee in respect of the M\u0101ori Trustee\u2019s core statutory functions. It recommended that in order to limit the uncertainty in respect of an estate and interest in land\u2014and subsequently to lessen the impact this uncertainty has in respect of leases, licences, and mortgages\u2014section 5 of the Financial Advisors Act should be amended. That amendment would insert a definition for \u201Cestate\u201D and \u201Cinterest in land\u201D that provides that an estate or interest in land does not include advice, guidance, or recommendations relating to the granting of any leasehold interest or licence right or any form of easement or mortgage in respect of land. That all sounds pretty technical to me but I have it on pretty strong authority\u2014the authority of the M\u0101ori Trustee\u2014that such a definition would be a key way of protecting the interest of M\u0101ori landowners in respect of estates and interest in land, and we therefore want to promote it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe other key amendment put forward by the M\u0101ori Trustee is to exempt the M\u0101ori Trustee in line with its previously accepted statutory functions. These include obligations under the Maori Trustee Act 1953 and Te Ture Whenua Maori Act 1993 in respect of interests in M\u0101ori land and the holding and investing of money on behalf of the beneficial owners of such land. The reason put forward by the M\u0101ori Trustee is that there is already significant transparency, control, and oversight of the operations of the M\u0101ori Trustee. This is by virtue of the M\u0101ori Trustee being a Crown entity for the purposes of reporting. It is also demonstrated through the M\u0101ori Land Court\u2019s oversight role in respect of the various trusts for which the M\u0101ori Trustee is responsible. Another means of ensuring that there is sufficient transparency, control, and oversight is through the funding arrangements and reporting requirements with the Crown. I am not an expert on the M\u0101ori Trustee by any means, but I believe that the issues raised in these submissions are worthy of further consideration by the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EFinally, I note the concerns that have been raised about some of the changes in the legislation in terms of the impact they will have on consumer protection. Some key stakeholders have been concerned about the flexibility that has crept in through the exemption of financial advice. This would have the effect of excluding a large number of organisations in which financial advice can be justified as incidental rather than core to their business; this could mean anything from a car rental company to a retail firm discussing hire purchase requirements. I think the hub of their concerns rest around what the term \u201Cincidental\u201D means and how it is interpreted. In a worst-case scenario, that might mean that people can have a tutu with financial advice and get away with shoddy advice on the flawed basis that it is not a central component of their business, meaning they do not have to comply with the registration or authorisation process. The last thing we want to see is the very people we are seeking to protect unwittingly being exposed to yet another level of risk, without the protection we envisaged would be possible in the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EFinally, I remind the House that M\u0101ori-generated economic development will play a significant role in the future of our nation. The last thing any M\u0101ori shareholder or businessperson wants to see is another Blue Chip disaster blighting our financial horizons. The M\u0101ori Party supports this bill, and encourages further debate on, and consideration of, the range of issues that clearly still require further thought.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u00221cf3040a55b04ca4bf890da55f584ad7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cf3040a55b04ca4bf890da55f584ad7\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora koutou. Comments have already been made this morning that these bills indicate the value of regulation, and there was reference made to the fact that the financial advice sector is an industry that was under-regulated. Unfortunately, we cannot rely on the goodwill or integrity of a minority of those within the industry, and it is necessary to apply some regulation. The market, left to its own devices, clearly will not protect the well-being or serve the interests of all players in that market; it never has, and a completely unregulated market never will. There is simply too much at stake here. We are talking about people who may well be investing all of their life savings or the assets they have managed to accumulate over many years of work and effort, and we have a responsibility as legislators to ensure we put the best possible policy settings in place to ensure those people some reasonable protection\u2014again, notwithstanding the fact that investment always carries a measure of risk. In order to asses risk intelligently and accurately, one needs access to information, honest and open disclosure, and a high level of transparency about exactly what it is one is investing in. Clearly, that was not the case with many of the companies that have now failed and that have left a great deal of not only financial or economic loss but also significant human cost in their wake. That includes ill health, the break-up of relationships, and even, at the extreme end, the suicides of people who have lost everything they had and could not see any way forward other than that very unfortunate and tragic end. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIt is appropriate and a good thing that these bills have come to the House and are passing through it. I think it is important to acknowledge that this legislation on its own will not solve all of the problems that can be associated with the industry. There are other issues. One of those is that we\u2014like many on the committee and outside it\u2014have not found it entirely straightforward to penetrate some of the language that is commonplace to the financial sector. It is important that we continue the constant drive to get plain English documents. When people are confronted with legalese or jargon, they are at a disadvantage. There was mention this morning of an asymmetry of information, understanding, and knowledge. Clear, plain English documents would be a significant step towards ensuring that people are well informed and that they can make reasonable assessments of the risk of the investment they are proposing to make. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThere was some significant discussion through the select committee process about the value or the integrity of self-certification programmes. I think there is certainly a place for that, for people who might otherwise be in a grey area, when it is not clear whether they could be reasonably expected to take care of themselves in that place. On the flip side of that, international experience shows that some self-certification programmes have been abused and misused, and have left people vulnerable. The resolution of that debate was to put a significant onus of responsibility on whoever accepts a statement of certification. If I make a claim that I am able to look after myself, then the person accepting that claim needs to have reasonable cause to make a fair and reasoned judgment that I am in that position. I think that was a good example of a negotiated outcome for some of what could have been sticking points within this quite substantive and complex legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to see that just a day or so ago, Mark Weldon, the chair of NZX, made a call for local initiative, local institutions, and local policies that will reduce this country\u2019s reliance on foreign capital. Indeed, putting this bill in place and giving people more confidence that they will receive fair, honest, and open advice is one step, albeit a small step, towards us becoming somewhat more self-sufficient in capital. It gives people confidence to invest their hard-earned money. It will also have a positive spin-off, as I mentioned earlier, in potentially making more capital available to business people and innovators who want to build and develop a local industry in whatever the context might be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI think there is more work to be done around financial investment more generally. We need to create policy settings that encourage and improve the landscape for so-called angel investors, those people who have funds and are willing to put them into sometimes unproven investments\u2014people who offer venture capital on reasonable terms. Clearly, in the New Zealand market place that is a gap that needs filling. We have too little access for many in our creative design sector, our innovators, who can actually build a sustainable economy in New Zealand. By facilitating the entry into the market of angel investors, we would go a long way to resolving that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe in the Greens believe there is a significant opening to create policy settings for ethical investment companies, the likes of Prometheus Finance, which is probably the best known in New Zealand. Those are companies that will guarantee and undertake to their investors that they will invest only in products and services that are deemed ethical. There are obvious things like tobacco, arms, and various forms of nuclear energy, but they actively pursue ethical, sustainable investment. Having evened the playing field a bit, which we have done with this bill, the next steps might be towards facilitating the growth and expansion of that ethical investment community. The Government investing more and putting some of its own funds into these programmes, and actively pursuing and supporting these programmes, would send a very good signal to the market that this is the way forward. Investing in ethical companies, investing in sustainable development, and investing in local industry innovation initiatives is definitely the way to forward for this country, its economy, and, indeed, the people living within it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EFinally, I simply reiterate what has been said. This has been a very positive process in negotiating a good outcome for these bills, despite some initial differences based on ideology or experience or whatever it might be. It has been a very positive process, and it has taken us a step closer to assuring New Zealand investors that they can have a degree of confidence and safety in their investments. Kia ora koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u002220a3af5a37604f8a9a5ec9b4499f7074\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220a3af5a37604f8a9a5ec9b4499f7074\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to stand to speak in the third readings of the bills arising from the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill. It is critical that we get our regulatory framework right, and this has been quite a process. It is a very complex bill, and we have appreciated the input from many quarters\u2014particularly from the stakeholders, who have been very much part of this whole process of developing the legislation. I think that today there will be people out there in the market place celebrating the passing of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EOne of the balances we had to find was where to regulate and where not to. Whenever we create regulations to protect consumers, the consequence is that we constrain providers. We have worked hard, listening to consumers and financial service providers to get the balance right between consumer protection and professional efficiency. However, it needs to be said that the confidence this legislation will bring to consumers is important. Many, many submitters welcomed the compliance this legislation will bring, because it will attest to, and support their aspiration of, professional soundness as an industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIn respect of finding this balance between flexibility and constraint, we know that both the Financial Advisers Act and the Financial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Act have been made more flexible by adding a number of regulation-making powers. That sounds slightly oxymoronic, does it not? The Securities Commission can now provide limited exemptions from financial adviser obligations. The commission is not expected to consider exemptions for every individual adviser who does not consider him or herself to be the true target of the regime. The commission is expected to focus on exemptions for classes of persons for whom the cost of compliance with certain obligations would be unreasonable or unjustified. Those mechanisms are important to ensure that the regime can adapt with the market and impose obligations that are proportionate to the risk created by different services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EMr Chauvel talked about the single economic market, and as I close I say that a lot of work is being done by our Minister of Commerce, Simon Power, with his Australian counterparts to make progress on 27 regulatory outcomes identified by the two leaders, Prime Minister John Key and Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, in a joint statement in August last year. The Trans-Tasman Outcomes Implementation Group, co-chaired by a senior official in the Australian Treasury and our Ministry of Economic Development, has been working to advance the outcomes identified by the two Prime Ministers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI believe this is good watershed legislation, which will make a difference to the financial adviser sector and a huge difference to confidence among investors and savers in our country. It is a pleasure to be able to support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u002269d192b0c6004092a7e716a84908b261\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269d192b0c6004092a7e716a84908b261\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in the third readings of the Financial Advisers Amendment Bill and the Registration and Dispute Resolution Bill. As members know, Labour supports this legislation. It will simplify the implementation of the Financial Advisers Act and reduce costs, while encouraging public confidence in the industry. The amendments discussed this morning will strengthen the Financial Advisers Act 2008 and the Financial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Act 2008, both of which were brought in by the previous Labour Government, and ensure those Acts serve their purposes. Public confidence in this industry, and robust consumer protection, are vital today, and we must restore confidence and trust in the financial services sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI will comment on a couple of things that have been brought up this morning, by me and others, and underline their importance. The first is to do with promoting standards and accountability in the profession. A number of other professions have been mentioned in the House this morning, such as the legal and medical professions, accountancy, and the police. Essentially those are the professions we expect, when we go to them to seek advice and information, to know that we will get quality, and that some sort of standard will be attached. Financial advice should be in that league, and hopefully with the passing of this legislation it will have that standing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe other thing I would like to mention is the importance of financial literacy, which has been talked about as well. Unfortunately it has been talked about in terms of it being a problem, rather than our having solutions to that problem. As a country we owe it to the people of New Zealand to really grapple with this issue seriously and work out how people can become more financially literate, and what is needed to make them so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhile that discussion was happening this morning, I thought about the medical profession and the increasing trend for people to self-diagnose by accessing the internet and googling their symptoms and coming up with their own diagnoses. I am not being overly critical of people who do that, because in many cases it does produce some results and interesting discussions with general practitioners and other specialists. But the issue of people who think they know best on financial matters, the range of products out there, and how their investment will turn into a bigger investment is a big one because financial literacy is not something that people generally learn at school. Perhaps it should be learnt more at school. There are some serious issues about where we should intervene in society to enable people to have more information about how to best use their money. I certainly think that financial literacy is a major issue in our society right now, and we need to grapple with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe third issue is about the vulnerability of investors, particularly the people we have been talking about, who have been most affected by this issue. They are the mum and dad investors, the people who do not have a lot of money, and often it is their life-savings we are talking about. I want to draw attention, as a number of my colleagues have, to the member\u2019s bill of my colleague Carol Beaumont, Labour\u2019s spokesperson on consumer affairs, the Credit Reform (Responsible Lending) Bill, which is really addressing this issue and taking it a step further in relation to how to protect people from loan sharks. There is an extraordinary amount of ripping off by moneylenders going on in our society at the moment of the people who are being most affected but who can least afford to be affected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhen we take into account the extraordinary amount of cooperation and collaboration that has occurred with this legislation in the Commerce Committee and across this House, it would be a show of goodwill if the Government actually showed that it had some responsibility about this issue, and showed that it was prepared to consider the importance of the issue and take it a step further\u2014and it would be good to note that some members across the House were actually listening to what I am saying, right now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe Commerce Committee has focused on protecting retail consumers and on enhancing confidence. The select committee has done an extraordinary amount of work in that area, and I pay tribute to the committee and all the officials, as has been done a number of times in the House today. But it is really important to do that, and particularly to praise the chair, the Hon Lianne Dalziel. As I said, we were focused on protecting retail consumers and on enhancing confidence, and on encouraging participation in capital markets. We were conscious throughout the select committee process of remaining mindful of the harm that the legislation is intended to address, and the need for a regulatory response to be proportionate to that risk. I believe that that has been achieved, and been achieved after a lot of hard work by all involved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ESo this legislation will ensure that the public are protected from people like Neville Cant, a Timaru investment adviser mentioned earlier, who just last week was jailed, and banned from being an investment broker, after offering and allotting securities to members of the public without a prospectus or an offer statement. Worst of all, he was convicted for stealing about $100,000 from clients. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAs members have also heard, this legislation is about protecting ordinary investors like Tom and Ann Cawood, aged 78 and 75, who were forced to walk away from their home after losing everything in Blue Chip investments. This couple, as has been reported in the New Zealand Herald, like so many were not foolish with their money but, rather, received misguided financial advice. Similarly, Colin and Bev Mossop, after the Blue Chip failure, found they were devastated after many years of hard, honest work, and said that their hopes for their future financial stability and enjoyment of life had been shattered. When Blue Chip collapsed in 2008 it was outside our regulatory system, and more than 2,000 investors were owed more than $84 million. Founder Mark Bryers has been sentenced on 34 charges, most of them relating to inadequate financial reporting such as failing to complete or sign off company accounts. His case has been well documented. He has been banned from being a director or manager of a company for 5 years, which is the longest period possible, and he is ineligible to run a company until May 2015. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAs Lianne Dalziel has said, this law will capture the Blue Chips of the future. This legislation will allow the Securities Commission to bring such companies into the system, and I hope that the legislation will today send a real message to financial advisers and the financial sector so that we can truly restore confidence in that sector. That plays an important role for businesses in raising capital, and this legislation is about protecting ordinary investors. The sector is supportive of the legislation today. It was apparent from the submissions heard before the select committee that the sector itself wants reform, and understands its importance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EFinally, I again thank Commerce Committee members for their hard work, particularly the chair. The select committee process was inclusive, and such an open and transparent process with stakeholders and officials makes this legislation what it is today. It will not solve all the problems in the financial sector, but it promises to make a difference. I want this legislation in order to protect people from the Blue Chips of the future, and to reinforce public confidence in the industry with robust consumer protection. We must restore confidence and trust to the financial services sector. I commend this legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5df7219e4394a7480b490fe917c7fd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5df7219e4394a7480b490fe917c7fd7\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise for the third readings of the financial services legislation. We have had quite a robust debate in the House, and it has been a tremendous pleasure for me to watch the whole House and to see all the different parties in agreement that we must protect ma and pa investors, who have had a bad time and have lost a lot of money. This bill is here to protect the consumers out there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI begin by paying tribute to the House for allowing the Commerce Committee to pass official documents to stakeholders in order for them to make comments before we presented this bill. I think it was Lianne Dalziel who said that our select committee was the engine room of Parliament. I would like to add that we were really cooking with gas in that select committee. We were firing on all cylinders. Our deputy chair, Sam Lotu-Iiga, had a lot to contribute. In fact, all the members who participated in that select committee made valuable contributions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI must say, as someone who did not really know much about the financial sector, that I have learnt a tremendous amount from the process. Recognising that we need to return confidence to the finance sector is important and it was one of the issues we worked on. We know it as members of Parliament working on this bill, and it seems that the financial sector, the people who are in the business of financial advice, also knew that they had to work on it. They were not being protectionist when we were talking about wanting them to make submissions. It was not a case of them saying that they do not want regulation. It was about people in the industry and members of Parliament working together to find a balance whereby we can provide protection for consumers, yet allow business to get ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EProbably all of us in this House personally know someone who has suffered as a consequence of some 30 finance company failures in the last 4 years. I personally know of someone who has worked as a doctor and helped a lot of people in the community by voluntary work. Her entire retirement savings were lost as a result of a finance company failure. Earlier, one member said that some of these people who had lost their entire life-savings were so ashamed of the bad advice they had received, or the bad choices they had made, that they were too afraid to tell their families. This is what has actually happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EOne of the major important things that we must achieve is the financial literacy of the people, the public, so that we all know what we are going into. This Parliament cannot protect everyone. If there is a higher interest rate on an investment, then everyone must recognise that there is a higher risk and that the Government cannot protect that investment. This is great legislation, and it has been a pleasure to work through the select committee process. It is my pleasure to commend the legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u002287e01266e14d43ae8116781d40dc7c9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287e01266e14d43ae8116781d40dc7c9b\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to support the third reading of this legislation. I have given speeches on the first reading, second reading, and Committee stage of the Financial Service Providers (Pre-Implementation Adjustments) Bill, so there is not much that is new that I want to say. But I will sum up the points I have made because I think they are all very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI come back to something that Melissa Lee said; her colleague Sam Lotu-Iiga mentioned it as well. I fundamentally disagree with their point. They talked about the inability to legislate for risk. I do not agree with that. I think that this legislation is legislating for risk. I have talked about the fact that there is something called the risk-free rate of return. It is usually understood to mean US Treasury bills, because there is nothing safer to invest in than US Treasury bills. Anything with an interest rate that is higher than that carries an element of risk. But one risk that investors should not have to take into account is the risk of negligence, incompetence, or very poor form on behalf of financial advisers. When Melissa Lee said that people have to account for risk, she was right. But I say that savers, the people who go to financial advisers, expect advice on different risk types. They do not know how to assess risk properly, so they go to financial advisers to ask how to properly assess their risk and have a balanced portfolio. That is the role of the financial adviser. I talked about how the understanding of risk and the assessing of risk is one of the fundamental developments of the global economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis legislation is supported by the industry, and there are reasons for that. One of the fundamental reasons is that the reputation and good name of a lot of very good financial advisers have come under attack in the last few years because of the unscrupulous people operating in this industry carrying the name of financial adviser. We encourage the good people to remain in this industry. We want people to enter this industry, but only in the knowledge that they will be trained, and that they need to be registered. They need to have the education and the skills to be able to offer advice to people who want to invest\u2014to tell them how to do it. People go to financial advisers for advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI remember hearing a case where someone talked about a balanced portfolio being investment in five different finance companies. That is not a balanced portfolio; that is the sort of advice that was given out by those fly-by-night characters who had no education, no grounding, and no experience in this game whatsoever. It was an absolute travesty for the good people of New Zealand that we allowed those people into the sector. Now with this legislation and the previous two bills that were put up by the Hon Lianne Dalziel, those sorts of people will no longer be able to operate in this industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWe talked about financial literacy as well, and it is a very important point; it transcends way beyond the boundaries of this bill. It is incredibly important. Again I come back to something that Sam Lotu-Iiga mentioned. He said that a friend of his with financial qualifications finds it difficult to wade through a 75-page prospectus. I find that astounding and incredibly worrying. My point is that if someone with financial training has great difficulty wading through a 75-page prospectus, how is someone without any financial training supposed to understand the requirements? It is law to put out a prospectus. It must be done if one is offering securities to the public. The inclusion of everything in that prospectus has been deemed by Parliament to be absolutely necessary in order to make a sound financial decision. If people cannot understand a prospectus, they go to a financial adviser. A financial adviser is supposed to have read and understood the conditions within a prospectus, and therefore be able to offer advice around different risk profiles in different forms of investment. Sam\u2019s point was very clear: friends of his with a legal or financial background have great difficulty understanding a prospectus. So how can ordinary New Zealanders understand? They simply cannot. That is why the financial services sector is a very important part of the New Zealand economy and it is why we need people who are suitably qualified to be operating in this sector. We have now got rid of people who have no qualifications and who have no intention of getting qualifications. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EFinancial literacy is a problem. My personal view, which is not Labour\u2019s view necessarily, is that some form of economics and finance should be compulsory up to the fifth form. New Zealanders need to leave school understanding the basics of economics, accounting, and finance. It is not difficult, but it needs to be part of the prospectus. I wonder what Allan Peachey\u2019s view on that is; I suspect he probably feels the same way. Coming out of school and not understanding a thing about economics or finance is a huge barrier to this country going forward, and that needs to be addressed. But, like I mentioned, it is outside the ambit of this bill. The parties will have to work through it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAnother point is that New Zealand quite simply cannot afford to have the millions of dollars disappear that have been shed from the balance sheets. Raising capital is vital to the depth and the breadth of business in New Zealand, and we absolutely must have a financial services sector that people can operate in, can invest in, and can raise money from with certainty and with confidence. It is very, very important. Our capital markets have taken a huge hit as a result of 30-plus finance companies going under, firstly, because people now have an inherent distrust of the capital markets, and, secondly, because people are going back to investing in houses. We understand that that is a major problem. It is not part of the productive economy. But New Zealanders have had money gouged out of their accounts by finance companies, so where do they turn? A lot of conservative Kiwis will go back to the housing sector. That is not something that we really want to encourage. We really need to encourage an environment in which people believe they can invest. They can assess the risk and can invest in that environment with a level of certainty that the advice they have been given is not negligent or incompetent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EFinally, this legislation is about ordinary New Zealanders. I talked about Mark Hotchin\u2019s $30 million mansion. I will give members a quote from the New Zealand Herald: \u201CA half-finished $30 million mansion \u2026 is big enough to contain 13 average houses just on its floor space. \u2026 It will contain seven bedrooms, a 25m swimming pool and a garage for 12 cars. Its study, games room and home theatre alone are as big as the typical house\u2014without counting any of its living spaces, including seven bedrooms.\u201D That house was built on a graveyard of the broken promises and shattered dreams of ordinary New Zealanders. Thousands of New Zealanders out there have lost everything, and Mark Hotchin\u2019s mansion on Paritai Drive stands as a symbol of greed and all that was wrong with the finance company sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAs I also mentioned, I am hoping that New Zealand icons like Colin Meads and Richard Long\u2014their brands are irrevocably damaged at the moment\u2014and other New Zealand icons will think twice before they lend their names to areas that they have no competence in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis travesty of the finance companies has resulted in increased ill health and a decrease in the well-being of a huge cohort of New Zealanders. Last year I spoke about two people I know about\u2014and no doubt there are a hell of a lot more\u2014who committed suicide as a result of losing all their money in these schemes. That is why this bill is so important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWe must remember that not all who acted in an unscrupulous manner were operating out of the back of a tin shed. We need to pass this bill. I commend it to the House. The days of the Wild West are gone. This bill closes a lot of these loopholes. It is a fantastic bill, supported by both sides of the House, and certainly supported by me. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBills read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fa665608dfd548d4b66c2ff0ec1b75cb\u0022\u003ECivil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229648d45bb183443eb90eb2fbea771124\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u00222ba0155dee614136850ab7d89b735d6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ba0155dee614136850ab7d89b735d6e\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Associate Minister of Transport)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Transport: I move, That the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. On 24 March 2010 the Minister of Transport, Steven Joyce, announced that the Government had decided to accede to the Convention on International Interests in Mobile Equipment, commonly known as the Cape Town Convention, and to the Protocol to the Convention on International Interests in Mobile Equipment on Matters Specific to Aircraft Equipment, commonly called the Aircraft Protocol. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EBy taking this treaty action New Zealand will become part of an international system to protect commercial security interests in mobile aircraft equipment. Because mobile equipment such as aircraft move from one country to another, international investors in, or lessors of, such equipment have historically had to rely on different national laws to protect their investments. Consequently, financiers seek a premium on their lending as a hedge against the legal risks involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe convention creates a set of international rules governing security interests in mobile equipment, including an international securities register. The Aircraft Protocol modifies and supplements the convention to meet the particular needs of those involved in cross-border transactions applying to \u201Caircraft objects\u201D, which include airframes, aircraft engines, and helicopters. The protocol provides the creditor with additional remedies, including the deregistration and export of an aircraft. It also establishes a special insolvency regime in relation to aircraft objects to strengthen the creditor\u2019s position against the debtor or the insolvency administrator. It is estimated that the financial savings over the next six years to the aviation industry, including Air New Zealand, could range from $18 million for savings in export credit guarantees to as much as a whopping $325 million in reduced finance charges. And, of course, the benefits will continue into the foreseeable future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAmendments to domestic legislation are necessary to ensure that it aligns with the Cape Town Convention and Aircraft Protocol when they come into force in New Zealand. The bill amends the Civil Aviation Act 1990 to give the convention and the protocol the force of law in New Zealand, to ensure that these instruments prevail over inconsistent domestic law, and to require the Director of Civil Aviation to deregister an aircraft when required to do so by a creditor, in accordance with the new processes set out in the Aircraft Protocol. The bill also amends several other Acts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dbc6861f91ad444293a11b877ab10180\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e9f9ba1016d140a59eac1dc4e05764c4\u0022\u003EAustralia\u2014Parliamentary Committee System Review Committee,Queensland Legislative Assembly\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00222420d5b9c92346d29fb51cd21582dd06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222420d5b9c92346d29fb51cd21582dd06\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have much pleasure in informing members that the Parliamentary Committee System Review Committee of the Legislative Assembly of Queensland, led by the Hon Judy Spence MP, is present in the gallery. I am sure that members will wish that the committee be welcomed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ebb2ccf590e741fc934a4d7dcbd36a9c\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226ccf5b7822604784846ebfb8b9d516e5\u0022\u003EHolidays (Football World Cup) Amendment Bill\u2014Copies for Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3da5a6567214cce89b71fe8884a16c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3da5a6567214cce89b71fe8884a16c4\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek your indulgence in order to inform members that I have placed in their bill box a copy of the Holidays (Football World Cup) Amendment Bill. It is not my intention to proceed with it for another 24 hours, in order to give people an opportunity to give feedback. Currently, the bill would grant a public holiday on Friday contingent on the All Whites winning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022790e6ed2eca342938154bebd57b303b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022790e6ed2eca342938154bebd57b303b8\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E How on earth was that a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7468d11337c44e4bc40ca37ee6b1966\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7468d11337c44e4bc40ca37ee6b1966\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have to confess that I am not sure, but the member got away with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022584fc55247d548189c13c12036d67223\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221f38382468e24ca993da71bf756512cd\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ff1d00a5890f4e8e88ab3c9b9d68a80a\u0022\u003E Pacific Economic Development Agency\u2014Contestability of Grant\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00220f800c98ff784099afaee0f06fe3261f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f800c98ff784099afaee0f06fe3261f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Why did he allocate $4.8 million in the Budget to the Pacific Economic Development Agency rather than making that funding contestable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2035bef65f74486a88286ffb3bf92cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2035bef65f74486a88286ffb3bf92cd\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E In the first place, the appropriation in the Budget does not amount to an allocation of $4.8 million to the Pacific Economic Development Agency. As I have pointed out to the member many times, there is a process of negotiation going on regarding a purchase agreement that will meet all the requirements of accountability and transparency. The Government decided to allocate some money to improvement of the skills and job prospects of young Pacific Islanders, alongside the tens of millions of dollars that it has allocated to any number of schemes designed to cushion people from the sharpest edges of recession and, particularly, to help younger people to maintain their connection with the workforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205d9a6fc7e454f8aaf88b74eddcbeb00\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: When the Ministry of Pacific Island Affairs reported to him and to his colleague that this agency was unproven and untested, constituted a real risk, and had not completed any projects of real note, why did he decide to maintain the exclusivity of the appropriation to that organisation despite those warnings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e9b019431d04b02b21e4aac8f547778\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There is no exclusivity, and I think that is where the Opposition is labouring under a misunderstanding. The Government proceeded with the appropriation, and I would have thought that the Labour Party would welcome new money in a tough Budget to help young Pacific Island people get skills and maintain a connection to the workforce. The appropriation having been made in the Budget, negotiations are going on now with Treasury and the Ministry of Pacific Island Affairs. The member should await the outcome of that to see whether there is exclusivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c7c3889caf04a49b4247a15c1c53ce9\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: If what the Minister says is true, why is there a single-line item in the Budget for the Pacific Economic Development Agency, and why did his Minister of Pacific Island Affairs announce on Budget day that that was exactly where the money was going?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a63d79c99824ba387ade638af273a0a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said before, the appropriation process does not guarantee the money to any particular organisation. The appropriation was made with the full knowledge that there would need to be discussion about a detailed business case. This is a completely normal process followed all the time by Governments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224406bf44cb554ddda75603286bba191b\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the mechanism for how the Pacific Economic Development Agency is to report on its spending one of self-reporting, as indicated in the Budget document itself, rather than the more robust reporting mechanism that generally applies to non-governmental organisations, as set out under section 32A of the Public Finance Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229805cbd3f4af42d6970b3a055c5aa7a9\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member raised that question yesterday, and I can give the member the same answer. There are no special arrangements because there is no contract in place. It is very straightforward. I would have thought the Labour Party would be supporting the Government trying to help young Pacific Islanders maintain their connection to the workforce and get some skills\u2014or is the member unaware that this is the group most affected by unemployment in the recession?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fb4a49a25124d4498005d5df41a691c\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: When will the Minister get it into his head that the Opposition is not concerned about the fact that he might belatedly put some money into supporting the Pacific Island community, whose unemployment rate has doubled, but is worried about the lack of transparency and the shonky way in which he has put it in place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205ba4639b6554ccd952bf4644e75fff7\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: What I have in my head is the alarm among the Labour Party that a National-led Government is talking to the Pacific Island community, and doing so constructively. I point out to the member that the kinds of bullying tactics from the Labour Party that failed in the M\u0101ori community will also fail in the Pacific community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236cec90ff17e4f4f825265897a37752c\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: In claiming that the criticism of the Pacific Economic Development Agency is based on party politics and conspiracy theory, how does the Minister explain the statement made by National\u2019s pollster and blogger David Farrar that giving the agency $4.8 million when it has no track record is \u201Ca reckless decision\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220959d21c9ca24f3f87e0c4b8a2e6ac4e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I am not responsible for him, and he is wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff459aa60ff543d7b989138c53c00878\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Prime Minister discuss with him as Minister of Finance any funding proposals that arose out of a meeting in Auckland last year between Mr Key and the Pacific Economic Development Agency director J R Pereira, a meeting that was also attended by Inga Tuigamala and Michael Jones; if so, what undertakings were made at that meeting?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bee94dce6c05464c937978a7d120b947\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I know that the Leader of the Opposition is somewhat resentful of the Prime Minister\u2019s popularity, but he\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218eccf431f5e42038c49227ddd961318\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That was\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223665fcf249e34c6392fd82d8f5e06946\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That was totally uncalled for. A point of order was called, and the House will hear it in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ee8c9c7727d44638a6422ca46cef63a\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I think you know what the point of order is. It was quite unnecessary to preface the answer to what was quite a straightforward question in the way that the Minister did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b6c0adc0e064e54898e210e33803a3a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I hear the honourable member. The Minister was asked whether the Prime Minister had discussed matters with him following that meeting, and I think the Minister should attempt to answer that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a25d8022da4e435d83097d377d5ce18b\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. When a question is asked in that sort of carping, name-dropping manner, I think you need to ask yourself whether the question itself had validity. It was just totally\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022746f88e8324845e39a8616608a327703\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member should be careful about what he says. I listened very carefully to that question, and I contrasted it with the previous question. In respect of the previous question asked by the honourable Leader of the Opposition, the Minister had licence to say almost anything that is permitted in this House, because the question was a very loose question with a lot of political comment in it. The question before the House now is a reasonable question: it asked whether the Prime Minister had discussed this issue with the Minister some time last year, following a meeting with one Pereira and a couple of other people in Auckland. I do not know whether the meeting took place, but the Minister should tell the House whether any discussions took place between the Prime Minister and him on this matter following that meeting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225107caf50bbc4675b6deb123beb161ff\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I am not aware of the particular meeting, but I can tell the member that the answer to that question would be no. There was no discussion about funding until at least about February or March of this year, because there was no proposition to discuss funding for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022761e1e8418f54e01838a8fd82a44e168\u0022\u003ERest Homes\u2014Standard of Care\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d29697f659fa4258a6b68f741b8b5f70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d29697f659fa4258a6b68f741b8b5f70\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he agree that older New Zealanders who live in rest homes are among the most vulnerable in our society, and is he satisfied that all rest homes provide safe levels of care for residents, as they are required to do under the Health and Disability Services (Safety) Act 2001?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd7bc12a2b6f4e44a18c423086824241\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd7bc12a2b6f4e44a18c423086824241\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes; and generally yes. I also agree with the Auditor-General, who last year issued a damning report that the previous Government did not respond quickly enough to address the weaknesses and risks in the arrangements, which it had known about since 2004. The new Government is tackling these years of neglect in a number of ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283e464e88a934d17bfb39b187093b73a\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: How can he ensure that rest homes provide safe levels of care for residents, when there is no minimum training or qualification needed to be a caregiver, and when many people literally walk in off the street with no prior training or experience and begin to care for our vulnerable elderly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b93cf0ff28c424ea81a997132919d07\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: A number of training programmes are in place for those who go and work in aged care. The Government was also concerned about the lack of investment in nursing quality and supervision in rest homes, and that is why we put in an extra $18 million last year as part of meeting that need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c011fc3e79874f70a2953fbc70243be9\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: How can he ensure that rest homes provide safe levels of care for residents, when according to the Nurses Organisation survey, large numbers of unregulated caregivers are doing jobs that would normally be considered to be the domain of registered nurses\u2014jobs such as administering medicines without supervision, and even administering drugs like morphine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225967e4f0ead64ec5bbac89bc602583fa\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: There are very clear rules about who should be administering drugs anywhere in the New Zealand public health service. If the member has any information about breaches of those rules, it should be made available to the authorities. This Government is beefing up the audit and compliance regime associated with rest homes in order to ensure that the problems identified by the Auditor-General are addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226306e4ac905c48549d92af66ae842728\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: What were the conclusions of the Auditor-General\u2019s damning report on the monitoring of rest homes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022808ec5942f0b402c8f55eb16f479e2b8\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Last year the Auditor-General\u2019s report identified longstanding shortcomings in rest home monitoring. The Auditor-General\u2019s report found that under the previous Government, the Ministry of Health had struggled for years to ensure the quality and safety of the nation\u2019s rest home services. The Auditor-General was highly critical of the lack of action between 2002 and 2008, and the Auditor-General was particularly critical of the agencies that audit rest homes, and this Government shares that concern. The same report recognised the action that the new Government has under way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022902e07e3fea44abbbee4a74a9bac9f5c\u0022\u003EH V Ross Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Considering that this Government is clearly turning a blind eye to elder abuse in rest homes, does it intend\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b70e64061382450c929880139ddedc33\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would not normally raise a point of order on a new member, but this is a very, very experienced member. He has been in the House for some 35 years. I would have thought it is quite inappropriate for him to start a question in that manner. It is question time, not statement time. I also want to know whether he has a hat to go with his scarf.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7e688e69eba496dafbdaebcffe1e7c6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s point of order is perfectly valid. I do not normally intervene. The more comment like that that a member makes when asking a question, the more licence that a Minister has to be political in his or her answer. That is the way that I normally balance it. But the member\u2019s point of order is absolutely correct. The member should ask a question rather than make\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022243363a254114e2eaec984cb1a4f9a89\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Before you absolutely endorse the point of order, you might want to check the maths of the Leader of the House. Clearly, he cannot add without taking his shoes off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022768a056178634913923ea7ed5b7a9161\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure what that has to do with order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c643695ccc684a9682e5b084164d1cd6\u0022\u003EH V Ross Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed, he should have his maths checked. Does the Government intend to continue to turn a blind eye to elder abuse in rest homes, and does it intend to do anything about the other issues for the elderly that Grey Power raised yesterday\u2014namely, cutting home help, cutting hearing aid subsidies, cutting elder abuse education programmes, cutting elder driving courses, allowing ever-increasing electricity bills, and transferring the financial burden of the emissions trading scheme from the polluter to the taxpayer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254413372e83147dab6e84d86714688d8\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I would ask where that member was for 9 years when the Auditor-General was slamming the party opposite for its behaviour when in Government towards rest homes in New Zealand. This Government has done more than any other in the last 18 months to address those issues. We are now auditing the auditors, we require the auditing agencies to have international accreditation, we are providing additional funding, and we have introduced spot auditing. We now have transparent reporting online of rest home quality standards as per the audit, which is colour-coded for easy reference. Blue is very good, and red is very bad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222d1bd1272a14ad899155e1340f76cf8\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: How can he ensure that residents living in rest homes now are provided with safe levels of care, when nurses who work in the aged-care sector report that they are responsible routinely for the care of as many as 64 residents and are so overworked that they simply do not have time to care for residents properly or safely?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c4cdca29de54f70ba7f894d51938454\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: What I am well aware of is that the Government put in an additional $18 million last year to improve the nursing quality and supervision in rest homes. We have increased the subsidies a further $16 million this year. We are putting a considerable effort into improving the auditing and compliance regime. As I travel to rest homes around New Zealand, nurses are giving me a very clear message that the neglect of the previous regime is being addressed by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202275168bdae4af184f098deb248b187\u0022\u003EH V Ross Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Given the Government\u2019s barracking during the asking of my question, I seek leave of the House to table the media release put out by Grey Power yesterday, which the Government did not believe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283f3beea897746cea89057ee9eb36c96\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House is not about to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6de4a426fef4001b8b11f18c32b48ac\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not the case that as long as there are no minimum staffing levels in the sector or formal qualifications or training required to be a caregiver, he simply cannot ensure that rest homes provide safe levels of care for residents; and does he concede it was a mistake for the Government to veto a select committee inquiry into aged care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022165e454e7ec44746bf2d22670765f0f1\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: No, it was not a mistake for Government members of the select committee to not have an inquiry into aged care, because frankly it saved that member, who supported the previous Government for 9 years, from a lot of embarrassment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205c24277d55a4887abae2bf71f9d5cae\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table four documents. The first document is an email dated 19 May of this year, in which a caregiver on $13.26 an hour explained that she gives out medicines for 46 patients, including signing for and giving morphine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253bace7f2dbc4031a9eb91708c578533\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c32599200a94ea3bc28b64bbdb867ae\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table another email from a caregiver received on 10 June, explaining that on many occasions staff have found that residents had been lying on the floor for 2 or 3 hours after a fall, before being picked up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202890eb7c68047fa86cfce8120b0aadb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0a29b029ff9477b94c8d2d15c02977a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is there a name on it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d41647324ee48fdbc58c2d381c5a987\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Let me just clarify this for the House. Is the name of the person who sent the email on the document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aabee75477ee4454a67a30828a0b62aa\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have removed the name of the person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c703a5e4c2054ee99c7edfedc3a57e82\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: So we have got no idea who is making this allegation. Members are aware of that. I will put the leave. Leave is sought to table the document with no name on it as to whom it came from. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdb45bdb59a3448ebf61c876d52d5c9a\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a Nurses Organisation aged-care survey done in 2009, which points out that medication is frequently administered by caregivers without the supervision of nurses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3b4cba8d3c548b5a20d214a831e3c11\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd0f2530f6a043c7a9ca79f32fb38184\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table my final document, from 17 May. It is from a nurse who said she has left the sector because she could not stand working in an environment where she was unable to ensure that patients received the care that they are entitled to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229812dd3c6eb64867adecbc82b463d416\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is the name of the person who sent that letter attached to it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223670cb5aa65a440e8e88d70d042aa170\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I have removed that name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db9a591d98de41a6a4da029fc2705ddf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document, to which no name is attached. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002218885a92cf6b4acea7c50dae181788ad\u0022\u003EEconomic Position\u2014Current Account Deficit\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5adc3da79424486a0fa5bf668883af8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5adc3da79424486a0fa5bf668883af8\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he received on New Zealand\u2019s economic position?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff47027493914065ad5f47c7122b9762\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff47027493914065ad5f47c7122b9762\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Today Statistics New Zealand published current account data for the March 2010 quarter. It shows a current account deficit for the year ended 31 March of $4.5 billion, which is around 2.4 percent of GDP. It is the lowest deficit in more than 20 years. However, the latest figure reflects a mix of permanent and temporary factors. It includes the benefits of recent high commodity prices, the revenues from major tax cases, and reductions in imports during the recession. Most forecasts show the deficit widening again, though not to the previous extreme levels of 9 or 10 percent of GDP. The data reinforced the need for New Zealand to tilt the economy towards savings, exports, and productive investment, and away from excessive borrowing, debt, and Government spending increases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e57275ebfcf64b9c9a64ceff2e9bae6e\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What are the main reasons for New Zealand\u2019s current account deficit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dc8fa52551942c989b1dc36522b7a7d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The current account deficit has become particularly bad through the last cycle, partly because of the mismanagement of the temporary boom of recent years. New Zealand\u2019s external liabilities have risen almost 40 percent to $167 billion over the past 5 years. The cost of servicing this is more than 5 percent of GDP. At almost 90 percent of GDP, our external liabilities are similar to those of Spain, Ireland, Portugal, Hungary, and Greece, names the House might recall from recent media coverage. This is why the Government has placed such emphasis on financial stability. We have been successful up until now, but there is still plenty of work to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022051ea3cf0f2a404489ac55a5e3332216\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he attempting to take credit for the recent result, when J P Morgan has labelled the improvement as short-lived, and both Treasury and the Reserve Bank are forecasting the current account deficit to almost triple over the next few years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022831ca1bae174400b8995092e841f8052\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I am not trying to take credit for it, and, actually, I pointed out in my answer to the primary question exactly that\u2014that the forecasts are expected to get worse. What I have pointed out to the House, though, is that it is vital we turn round our external position, because under the mismanagement of the previous Government our external liabilities have now reached\u2014[Interruption] The member should listen. Our external liabilities are now 90 percent of GDP. Other countries with external liabilities at a similar level are Spain, Ireland, Portugal, Hungary, and Greece, each of which has featured significantly in the international media because of its substantial financial challenges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f564f67cbce4333b9e57ad8faeb856e\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What steps is the Government taking to address New Zealand\u2019s current account problems?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224618affe59d042ca9357eb7ea6ba7427\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: To improve the current account, which, as the Opposition has pointed out, is forecast to get significantly worse again, the Government needs to raise exports and save more. The Budget was certainly focused on achieving this, with a new operating spending allowance of just $1.1 billion, which is about half the level of previous years. We have also set out to rebalance the tax system by increasing consumption taxes and taxes on property speculation, and reducing tax on income, savings, and productive investment. We should also acknowledge the success of some of the Reserve Bank measures in affecting the length of the term of the debt that New Zealand owes to the rest of the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aca6ab8ed287456cb1e1ae705f5d1fac\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Given that both the Government and the Opposition are now agreed that the problem is expected to get worse, and that the need for rebalancing includes closing the savings gap, why did the Government cut in half the incentives for KiwiSaver and continue to defer indefinitely the pre-funding of New Zealand superannuation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228312ecf6bb154b6895e652796b9925bd\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: We have answered those questions before, and no doubt Labour will spend the next 10 years trying to justify its policies of the last 10 years. We did that because we had better ideas, and, actually, it was not difficult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276f6fd7c6cbd490b9501d984c93e0162\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What alternative economic policies would aggravate New Zealand\u2019s current account position and mortgage our families\u2019 futures?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c87ca22550d748f186e920b9d0c6cb82\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There are a different set of choices the Government could make. We could, for instance, increase personal income taxes. We could increase Government spending significantly faster. That would increase the need for borrowing. We could meddle with the Reserve Bank\u2019s toolkit for containing inflation. These are all polices advocated by the Opposition. We disagree with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b92e7036dc8f4f1c903e7a8e750e7730\u0022\u003EState-owned Enterprises\u2014Requests for Additional Capital\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022b460ff3f046f48be845fef999f402d54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b460ff3f046f48be845fef999f402d54\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Which State-owned enterprises have indicated to him a need for additional capital, and what options is he considering to meet these needs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00221eebeadffb844e3faac792fdafb9b9ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221eebeadffb844e3faac792fdafb9b9ec\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Discussions about the particular capital needs of particular State-owned enterprises are commercially sensitive, and I do not intend to divulge the full detail of those here. I can tell the member that State-owned enterprises regularly have discussions with the Government about how much of their profits should be retained in order to allow them to continue investing. Additional capital is considered where there is a sound commercial case. Under the policy constraints the Government has given itself for State-owned enterprises requiring savings, we can either lower their dividends or borrow in international markets in order to invest in State-owned enterprises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bb1dffb3739470681bfeeb752838f0e\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: When did the Minister tell the Minister of Energy and Resources, Gerry Brownlee, about Solid Energy chairman John Palmer\u2019s intention to call for the partial sale of Solid Energy during a speech last Thursday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abb0953cb6cb425188a1df27954b97af\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot recall every discussion I have had with Minister Brownlee about Solid Energy, but I assure the member there are regular discussions because Mr Brownlee is a very active Minister of Energy and Resources, and a strong advocate of the development of New Zealand\u2019s energy resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0cb039345ca47ef893a73f9ac2a0e9a\u0022\u003EAaron Gilmore\u003C/span\u003E: By how much does he expect the Government\u2019s assets to grow over the next few years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de8d728b90794c27821e9c4fc0fc992b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Budget outlined the fact that the Government owns $220 billion worth of assets, which includes something like $70 billion worth of financial assets and over $50 billion worth of commercial assets. The Government expects that the value of that $200 billion portfolio will grow by around $35 billion over the next 4 years. That is if we manage it well. I have to say that the standard of management of some of these assets has been very poor, and the Government is working hard to lift their performance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231e76f3d83a44d9cbb5daff4b3a4f18e\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: When John Palmer told him he was going to call for the partial sale of Solid Energy, did he tell the chairman that the comments were \u201Cout of line\u201D and \u201Cstepping over the mark\u201D, or was the Minister of Energy and Resources, Gerry Brownlee, wrong when he made those comments and said \u201CNo one was particularly happy about it.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e07df4e76ba74cf0bb53a9a553c715da\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member is continuing the Opposition habit of trying to put words in people\u2019s mouths. That was not the nature of the communication between the chairman and me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e91fdfbd76a24875b4348e48e8a6ca21\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister rule out ever selling some or all of Solid Energy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df24b11654584dedbdd76828492f7af9\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s position on asset sales is clear: no asset sales in this term of office, and if that changes we will go to the electorate and debate the issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a46547290a3a47dcb20f6ef1273d2639\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister is not ruling out possible future partial privatisation of Solid Energy, in what respect did John Palmer \u201Cgo too far\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fabde75bbf34af2826dfb43009b1ed9\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member can play the game of ruling out, but actually Labour\u2019s policy on these matters is much looser than National\u2019s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022517aad33937a49de956b9f585b7f46b0\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. By attempting to refer a question back to the Opposition, the Minister is failing to address it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227905842a8e004b2fa5695faa2b46b8d1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is a fair point, actually. The Minister should not comment on the Opposition before attempting to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a52107fdaaf040869fd3d67d1cb60c09\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, we are not going to play the game of ruling things in or out. The policy is the same, whether for the chairman of a State-owned enterprise or an ordinary taxpayer: the Government is not selling any assets this term, and if it changes its mind it will campaign on it in 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f7ed8824312141a682acbd08c88f2a7b\u0022\u003EPolice\u2014DNA Samples Taken from Young People\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccd67afc6dfb4c4ba05ec84e294d10f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccd67afc6dfb4c4ba05ec84e294d10f5\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: How many DNA samples have the New Zealand Police taken from young people 17 years old and under over the last year; and what type of charges, if any, were laid against the young people who had DNA samples taken from them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002217e1be89e25e4512a0842a52d05878da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217e1be89e25e4512a0842a52d05878da\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Police advise me that there are more than 100,000 profiles on the national DNA database, and that over the last 12 months only 190 samples have been taken from people aged less than 17 years. In the limited time available the Police have not been able to carry out an audit to establish the exact details of each of those 190 cases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fedb283235644579b7e2c53915323dcd\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Has she seen the complaint from South Auckland lawyer Shane Tait that three of his clients were told by the police to give a DNA sample voluntarily, or face arrest for reporting late to the police station; and what action was taken to discipline the officers for their illegal activity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022626d5fa949384e5e91a57e79124e67d2\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have not seen that complaint, but I have seen numerous media comments about that, none of which gave any details as to the constables who are alleged to have done that, or the clients, or anything that could identify them. I invite the member, yet again, to give any details to either the Commissioner of Police or the Independent Police Conduct Authority. He can always send them to me if he likes and I will pass them on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022636c5f3b17aa4ebd8877a812c5009cb2\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Has she seen today\u2019s Internet posting, which reads: \u201CFull credit to you Hone for bringing to light the Nazi-style tactics used by New Zealand\u2019s biggest gang, the police, when collecting DNA samples. The issue, however, seems to be more widespread than just M\u0101ori. I am an educated European female who has never been convicted, or even suspected, of an offence but was subjected to similar, bully-style treatment and incorrect information with regard to provision of a DNA sample. I completed a Police Complaints Authority submission on this exact point earlier this month. It\u2019s\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203279f6b2e984b8081f4216b6010d8a9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I realise that the member is quoting, but he cannot quote endlessly like that when asking a question. I believe that he was asking the Minister whether she had seen something. The Minister may answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022693d3173e52c44c1bd71f2caef0312a2\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I doubt whether my supplementary question was the longest one we have received this week in the House, and I am surprised that you have cut me short before I had completed it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cd2b004023f43d3b1f7f0b130169e53\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: With respect to the honourable member, he does not need to quote endlessly to make a point. I believe that he could have quoted sufficiently from what he wanted to quote and asked the Minister a question. The member could see the House getting restless as he was going on and on, and he knows the Standing Orders. Is he complaining that he has not been able to ask his question because I have cut him short?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f3a4a83e13344f79eff42a1819bfed1\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: I am complaining that the question I have asked is not as long as other supplementary questions that have been asked this week and not stopped, and therefore, I should have been allowed the opportunity to complete my supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fb7d9dc25b742808005adb9a96d20c7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member feels offended, I apologise, but the Speaker has ruled, and that is it. The member will resume his seat and the Minister will answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd4ff851973d47e3a58d6f5ff465a7bf\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I have not seen any Internet blog or comment from a self-described educated European woman, who then goes on to make quite atrocious comments about New Zealand police officers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002293fe443c05b24e27b61e0360d26717ce\u0022\u003EHousing\u2014Access to Appropriate and Affordable Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u00228df7bbdbab3a49e5bf44c5fc5b7d1a8f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228df7bbdbab3a49e5bf44c5fc5b7d1a8f\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: Does he believe that all New Zealanders should have access to appropriate and affordable housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022b323404497c04683bbb0c18ca87477f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b323404497c04683bbb0c18ca87477f8\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Housing: As the Minister stated in the House yesterday, we are committed to assisting New Zealanders most in need. Budget 2010 contains $1.76 billion for over 300,000 households, which are provided assistance through income-related rents and the accommodation supplement. That is an increase of 17 percent compared with Budget 2008. In Budget 2009 we also committed $350 million to insulate 180,000 homes over a 4-year period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed8d43233540412ca80890fd79261d2c\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Why, when more than 1,100 people are on Housing New Zealand waiting lists in the Wellington region, 332 in the Hutt Valley alone, are more than 40 State houses sitting empty at P\u014Dmare? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022331873110e064e74879c31ed3542d962\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: As was made clear on television last night there are matters to be dealt with in the courts in respect of some antisocial residents in that area, and at the conclusion of that there will be a redevelopment of those properties in P\u014Dmare. As the Minister indicated, there is also some difficulty with tenants preferring not to be in the P\u014Dmare area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213fbb59673984b1b81f6984fd25f1e07\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he keep claiming that court action involving three families is preventing him from going ahead with promised renovations to more than 40 properties in the P\u014Dmare community?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022291621a73cc94b4f81a15d5d9c35b61f\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: That is because the Minister is concerned that if there is to be redevelopment in P\u014Dmare in order to improve the standard of the houses there, which the Government inherited from that member\u2019s party, then it should be done at such a time when the antisocial element of that neighbourhood has been dealt with. Many people do not want to move to the area because of their concerns about those tenants, and until that matter is resolved there will not be the redevelopment that people would want. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022740d6fb3726c4cb7929e532b1307d7d3\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: What commitment has the Government made to providing appropriate housing for Housing New Zealand Corporation tenants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220652550b1e3548febf3944e74ba11548\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Left a State housing portfolio in serious disrepair by the previous Government, this Government committed an additional $120 million to the housing portfolio in February last year. The corporation has completed over 20,000 upgrades to its homes since February 2009, at a total cost of almost $152 million, and it will complete another 8,000 upgrades in the next financial year. This Government is also committed to increasing the State housing stock by 1,550 houses by June 2012. As at 30 April we have delivered 647 of those new homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feafd32e3e934cf18b49f9b4345c322c\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he choosing to punish an entire community for the actions of a few; and, despite his claims that no one wants to live in P\u014Dmare, will he allow those people who said on television last night that they would love to live there to have those State houses renovated and to move in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5f12b91c03348d09f29469ec03f4c6d\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is not punishing a few people; the Minister is recognising that there is a community there in need of renewal in terms of the housing stock because so many mouldy and unsuitable houses were inherited from the previous Government. People want to know that if they are to bring up their kids in those houses, then they should not have to worry about an antisocial element that makes that neighbourhood not what it could be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dfffa273f3d44448b34e55f1d448b8e\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Rather than continuing to stereotype the entire P\u014Dmare community based on the actions of a few people, will he accept an invitation from me to accompany him on a visit to the P\u014Dmare community to speak to the local residents firsthand and to see the state of the houses that they are asked to live in; and if he is willing to accept that, will he also bring with him the Minister of Health so that he can see firsthand the impact of the $300,000 funding cut that has been imposed on the local health service?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280b4a533ff474753b8d45ed18a9510e6\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, I am sure it is not a neighbourhood where the local member needs to be accompanied by the Minister of Health to go there to visit it. I can tell that member that we would like the people of P\u014Dmare, and, indeed, of the entire Hutt Valley, to know of the very poor state of the State housing stock that this Government inherited. That is why we have put millions into upgrading the State housing stock\u2014so that New Zealanders have more home opportunities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f3fc52969b7746c79348958e649bda71\u0022\u003EWorkforce Advisory Group\u2014Release of Report\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022 data-id=\u00229b50935d5c3b41b39abf0587b743f3a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b50935d5c3b41b39abf0587b743f3a1\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014T\u0101maki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Why has she released the report of her workforce advisory group for public discussion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7c340a6b9374aa587483ae89b103826\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7c340a6b9374aa587483ae89b103826\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Last year I appointed a workforce advisory group to give me independent expert advice on the future of the teaching workforce. The group has produced a report called A Vision for the Teaching Profession, which I released earlier this month. I have released the report because I believe that this is a great opportunity to have an open discussion about how we can attract and train the very best teachers and ensure that they stay in the profession.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233b6f22d5d2144c7b5a570d43028c3a7\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: How can interested people have their say on the proposals in the report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261335687660d4eb3a6e916840417686e\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Submissions can be sent to the Ministry of Education by mail or email until 6 August. The report and a discussion document have been made directly available to schools and education sector groups. Both documents are also available to the wider public online. The Government will consider the advisory group report and outcomes of this consultation process later this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f32c4de4b6e44c7cbc3e7891b55eb2a5\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Has she read and understood the report; if so, what was the main recommendation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292e9b378b64c4d148952a07e78439528\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have read and understood the report, and I have released it along with a discussion document asking for public input.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3f9181b67594795bf91eb2f8b893a8e\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It was a pretty simple question: I asked what the main recommendation was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252d3a55624804af59b1449ffcde45da3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In fairness, I think that, unlike the question asked by the Leader of the Opposition yesterday, this question had two parts. The first question asked whether she had read and understood it; the second question asked what the main recommendations were. The Minister chose to say that she had read it and understood it, which meant that she had chosen to answer the first part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbf353683dc84b079fc87ed77b8b4b66\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the main recommendation of the Education Workforce Advisory Group that 3 years is not long enough to do a quality basic teacher education programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257962111e70e496ba22714980478930a\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I realise it comes as some surprise to the Opposition, but one releases a report with a discussion document for public consultation in order to get other people\u2019s input into an issue. That is exactly what we have done. I do not want to pre-empt that public discussion about a very important issue like the training of our teaching force.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e3f52fbd84f461496f60d6fd9864b7f\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I took your advice from the previous question and I asked, I think, the straightest question I could: I asked whether she agreed with it. She could have said that she did not have an opinion, that she agreed with it, or that she did not agree with it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce4c6606385146159221360f465d5370\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister\u2019s answer was that her opinion was that it was not in the public interest for her to comment on it prior to getting feedback from the public. The Minister is perfectly at liberty to answer in that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b5debf547bc7466e956910f859103034\u0022\u003EUniversity Courses\u2014Restricted Enrolments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002248bf04ba21be4b6e8b1970a10bf44c81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248bf04ba21be4b6e8b1970a10bf44c81\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Tertiary Education: Does he stand by his statement in regard to restricted enrolments in some university courses that it \u201Cwould not be ideal to see too much of this at this time\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022349459014ded4101a5c7136ef840bb6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022349459014ded4101a5c7136ef840bb6c\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Tertiary Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. Universities have always had the autonomy to set their own entrance criteria, but it would be counter-productive to overly restrict enrolments for 2011. A number of factors will see demand pressures reduce in that year, including the effect of some policy changes announced in Budget 2010, plus the 765 new places the Government is funding over and above the record level of provision in 2010.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263b00a1920df4e3eab462a9e99af204f\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Minister standing by as Auckland University, Waikato University, Massey University, Victoria University, and Otago University all restrict entry far more than ever before; or is he no longer ambitious for New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e1088f122f54442af1e749d23d2e2a6\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, the restrictions on admissions are being caused by the move by the previous Labour Government to cap enrolments and cap spending, following its imposition of the interest-free loans policy. Having said that, a number of factors will come together next year to relieve that demand pressure, including a record number of funded places at universities in 2011. In fact, there will be 5,600 more than 3 years ago. Secondly, there is the easing of the recession. Thirdly, there are the changes to student loan entitlements for new residents and Australians, and, fourthly, there is the introduction of a performance element for students already at university.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdd33be3e68543f88281a56548d3bcb1\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Given that answer, does the Minister accept that his plans to relieve demand pressure is another way of saying that some New Zealanders will not be able to go on to tertiary study and achieve their potential?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022029cefbf532a480db90bc655688baf01\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: No. I am saying that it is important to consider not just the amount of funding but also how that funding is used, which is something that seems to have escaped the Opposition. From the enrolments that are already funded in the university system we are seeking to ensure that people are making good academic progress while they are being funded by the taxpayers of New Zealand to complete their academic education. I think the taxpayers of New Zealand will see that as entirely fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224261f489d4d4429785639150f86125dc\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister think it is acceptable that a policy of open entry to New Zealand universities, which had its origins just after World War I, is now being cast aside, and that he is not taking action to do anything about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5c24b30288641a69ebb5c1b13d9a135\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: It is interesting to hear the member opposite rewrite history, but there has always been restricted entry, as far as I can remember\u2014and I remember first going to university in 1981. I had a restricted entry to my vet degree that resulted in my doing the zoology degree that has often been talked about. There have always been restrictions on different courses at universities. The point is that this year we have the highest number of core university places that have ever been funded in this country, and there will be a higher number next year. We have the highest number of funded core polytech places this year, and there will be a higher number next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224fc0b5a2382f403bb65ddf3e86e7576e\u0022\u003ETreaty of Waitangi Settlements\u2014Progress\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022 data-id=\u002283cbb53850354f4b80ea32b7f513e7bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283cbb53850354f4b80ea32b7f513e7bc\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations: What recent progress has the Government made towards its goal of settling historical Treaty of Waitangi claims by 2014?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u002225b6775990b644ce8631bc70187c9d8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225b6775990b644ce8631bc70187c9d8b\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E Last Sunday the Crown signed terms of negotiation with Ng\u0101ti Korok\u012B Kahukura and Ng\u0101ti Hau\u0101 at P\u014Dhara Marae. Between the start of last year and June this year, the Crown has reached over 30 significant settlement milestones, including 14 agreements in principle and six deeds of settlement. This represents great progress, especially compared with the previous administration\u2019s average of 1.6 deeds of settlement each year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f546fd5a344149c7aa8175fa3d74c1b1\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: What support did Budget 2010 provide to help achieve the Government\u2019s goal of settling historical Treaty of Waitangi claims by 2014?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022359e822fc9ae43af831502c276076428\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: This year\u2019s Budget provided an extra $6.5 million over the next 3 years to help achieve the Government\u2019s goal of settling historical Treaty claims by 2014. This extra funding comes on top of the additional $22.2 million in last year\u2019s Budget, and illustrates the Government\u2019s commitment to accelerating Treaty settlements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc27dc0a3f834164a39c4c45571a96ef\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: Will the settling of claims to customary title over parts of the foreshore and seabed under the Government\u2019s proposed legislation impact in any way, shape, or form on Treaty claims; if so, in what precise way?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1047189398c408584fd19eef0b0be7d\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: That question raises a number of points. First, I have made it clear on a number of occasions that if an iwi has concluded a Treaty settlement, it will be able to come and talk to the Crown\u2014for example, about extant customary rights it may claim\u2014but the finality of its Treaty settlement will not be able to be challenged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d593644cc3584214b36a2bcc42462ad9\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: Will he be advising the Attorney-General that the foreshore and seabed legislation should specifically prohibit any holder of customary title from charging those who wish to enjoy customary recreations, such as fishing and swimming, for access to areas of the foreshore and seabed held under customary title; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221abf751ad8af4cc4bde3c064b2b135f5\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Attorney-General and the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations exchange pleasantries all the time, and I imagine that the issue of the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206d32731fb6f4079add1af9143700a25\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: When he\u2019s not too busy directing companies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f79ba089960442bab8d7229231a34553\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Another day, another psychotic outburst from Mr Mallard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed2245b62d7a4e9fbf0ca22bc4c0e3ae\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a3907ec20ca407886bdf97f5a06e527\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the honourable member, I say that it will lead to disorder if members use an open microphone to make unhelpful comments across House. I recognise that it was done in response to a fairly unhelpful interjection, but these things tend to lead to disorder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223567f11b443e43f68f54a115646c2f76\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: My question was carefully worded, and it asked whether the Minister would be advising the Attorney-General with regard to the content of legislation. The answer I got was related to social intercourse between himself and that Minister, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6e4ff8b556e41c4b3faba4b8831ebb6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I accept the point the member is making in that I believe the Minister, in answering the question, was probably a bit sidetracked by the interjection. I think it was a serious question that the member asked, and I ask the Minister whether he could answer beyond just whether he talks to himself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fca144ef8ca4267801ee0fc85ff9e40\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there will be discussion between the Office of Treaty Settlements and the Ministry of Justice. I can assure the member that what I said yesterday was right in that there is no question regarding access to the foreshore and seabed. He need not have any worry about that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002253ffbcbbe0ea4cf2a8cb621ef1834d7c\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation\u2014Acceptance Rate for Counselling\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022413bb34ca76246978b44d5e2f8ae05da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022413bb34ca76246978b44d5e2f8ae05da\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for ACC: Did ACC alert him that the acceptance rate for ACC-funded counselling in the 6 months to 30 April 2010 was 11.9 percent, and, if so, when?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002215f780639bd04660b17ac8315c751418\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215f780639bd04660b17ac8315c751418\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E No, but the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) has kept me regularly informed. The figure is misleading, in that 32 percent of claims are awaiting further medical information for a decision. The main reason for declining claims is that the Accident Compensation Act 2001, which was passed by that member\u2019s previous Government, requires claimants to have a diagnosed mental injury for them to be eligible for counselling, and most do not meet that legal test.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9a5743c9fe54cf0a743a2767b288b64\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: When ACC released updated figures to the New Zealand Herald last week, was it before or after his written reply of Wednesday, 16 June stating he was unable to provide an update on the numbers of people not getting help for sexual abuse crimes, and was this a case of deliberately withholding the ugly and embarrassing truth that in the 1 month of March last year 238 people received ACC-funded counselling, but under this failed new regime, 178 people received counselling in a period of 6 months? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f682834688c24e66886bfb2fef934ca8\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The first point I make in the answer that I will provide the member\u2014and she has asked many questions\u2014is that expenditure this year on counselling for sensitive claims is not significantly different from what it was a year ago or 2 years ago. I am not aware of when ACC specifically had the discussion with the New Zealand Herald, but I have endeavoured to provide comprehensive answers to the many questions from the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d779f5145fee49c7bd509c70755231c9\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: When will he instruct ACC to stop using the nonsense statistic of less than 4 percent in data categories for sexual abuse, as anyone with a calculator can figure out that in many instances the figure is actually zero, and that deliberate delays and fudgey statistics will never hide the fact that the system is not working, which sexual abuse experts and survivors tried to warn him of 8 months ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab0d7cd1be234ecd81921078f66fe9fa\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: It has been a longstanding practice in a number of Government agencies, when members ask questions about, for instance, how many claims have been accepted in a region, in circumstances where there is a very small number and the agency may risk someone\u2019s privacy, to simply list it as less than 4 percent. I have answered many questions from the member opposite, and I invited the member to meet with Dr Peter Jansen, who is the medical practitioner in charge of that area, but the member simply chose to personally attack the doctor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2498710481a415f8cfa76bc8bc7dd3a\u0022\u003EKatrina Shanks\u003C/span\u003E: What action has the Minister undertaken in response to the concerns of some counsellors, psychotherapists, and others about the clinical decisions of ACC on sensitive claims? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e217c92fc03941d1aee1b7e03a388d3f\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I have been very reluctant to interfere in decisions of a clinical nature, but noting the concerns, I have established an independent clinical review of ACC\u2019s policy and processes, which is being led by Dr Barbara Disley, and is due to be reported back to me next month. I was disappointed that Labour members refused my offer to be consulted on both the terms of reference and the membership of the review, which I believe is the proper and professional way in which to deal with this important and sensitive issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277ed36cb24854a6cba842ab24ef1eb63\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: Given that Denise Cosgrove of ACC admitted last week that ACC may have moved too swiftly in its failed new process for sexual abuse counselling claims, will he now admit that he has been supporting this atrocity against victims of crime in order to save face, and that the truth is that even his claims that general practitioners supported the failed pathway is wearing thin, in light of the publishing of the general practitioners survey in the Christchurch Press today, stating that 70 percent of\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022138d76e640884299aed22430b7a16ef6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the honourable member that her question is highly marginal. I was going to allow it, even though she has made allegations in a question that are totally outside the Standing Orders, but she cannot go on any further. I invite the Minister to answer what she has asked so far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223627aefe91c7488da3fb023d1e14cb7c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I refer the member to the statement from the College of General Practitioners last year, in which it indicated support for the clinical pathways\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022634eecf5fb3941e6a82e0f9dcc471f11\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed8f82f502564cb484ea778f386274b5\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: It was provided by Massey University, and I would be happy to seek leave of the House to table that statement. I further say to the member that I have been reluctant to interfere, and rightly so. I really think it will be a slippery slope if we have clinical decisions being made by Ministers of the Crown, let alone in an area that is as sensitive as that of support for those who have suffered sexual abuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022489e10b0fd0f4ee5ab0b592f4a4c08a6\u0022\u003EPrisoners\u2014New Drug Treatment Units\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022 data-id=\u0022f625e906d17c481aa697d8110d98e088\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f625e906d17c481aa697d8110d98e088\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE (National\u2014Coromandel)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: What progress is the Government making on its commitment to increase the number of prisoners receiving drug and alcohol treatment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccd4ddf23b9a43be86e271aaf70e3bb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccd4ddf23b9a43be86e271aaf70e3bb8\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to report that tomorrow I will be officially opening the first of three new drug treatment units in our country\u2019s prisons. The new unit at the Otago Corrections Facility shows that we are delivering on our promise to double the number of prisoners receiving drug and alcohol treatment from 500 to 1,000. Two further units at the Wanganui and Auckland prisons will be completed by 2011. They will bring the number of drug treatment units up to nine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e68c53aa11be4218998966e055b8350e\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government committed to increasing the availability of drug and alcohol treatment places?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bf85d1f458b412392a37de1e2e7adaa\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: The Department of Corrections is now managing an all-time high muster of 8,746 prisoners, in addition to more than 45,000 offenders serving community-based sentences and orders. We know that drugs and alcohol are major drivers of crime in New Zealand, and that two-thirds of our prisoners enter jail with drug and alcohol problems. Breaking the cycle of drug and alcohol offending is crucial if we want to reduce the number of people behind bars. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d8688c67f3ed45d0a5a9f05a4e5a1665\u0022\u003EInternational Non-aggression Measures\u2014Government Support\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u00225fba4423821644e8ba1f8fb30ceef4e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225fba4423821644e8ba1f8fb30ceef4e1\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: Is the Government committed to ratifying promptly the amendment to the Rome Statute reflecting the resolution adopted by the States parties to the International Criminal Court at their review conference in Kampala on 11 June 2010, incorporating aggression as a justiciable crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u002269166ba0f38544c58e6fa6681bb970f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269166ba0f38544c58e6fa6681bb970f2\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Acting Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E The Government supports the resolution adopted by the review conference. The aggression amendment itself provides that the court\u2019s exercise of jurisdiction over the crime of aggression is subject to a decision to be taken by the States parties some time after 1 January 2017. The Government does not intend to ratify the amendment until after that decision has been taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ad93d49685646cb94d32ac6d6308d08\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the fact that the crime will not become justiciable until after that decision in January 2017 in no way precludes any of the Governments that participated in the adoption by consensus 2 weeks ago from ratifying it quickly, before 2017?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223037117938c542ecb39882edca5eebc3\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am aware of that. The Government wants to be sure that the court, which is a very new institution, is ready to assume the additional burden of the jurisdiction of the crime of aggression before it supports the activation of that jurisdiction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e314b6fb955435ab6504f637767fa7e\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: When that time comes, will such adoption of aggression as a crime leave unaffected the primary responsibility of the Security Council for peace and security, including determining that an act is an act of aggression, or the right of veto held by the five permanent members?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220280301375a540198842c336c185083b\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I imagine so, although the member is aware of the consensus that was reached on the way in which the jurisdiction is to be exercised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f34b1a19057342d58bc972cedbce25b3\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table the resolution adopted at Kampala\u2014Resolution RC/Res.6, adopted on 11 June by the review conference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2b80b1303fe4f18970e98dc6932f4b2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228483cf9582434bee8f2b787d09ea0b6b\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Government intend to encourage countries, particularly Asian and Pacific countries that are currently not signatories, to sign and ratify the Rome Statute and the amendment on crimes of aggression; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d04ccdc2496848eb9043a1be221e2b82\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I have no direct knowledge of the matter the member has raised, although I will say that the New Zealand Government is very pleased that consensus has been reached. Between now and 2017 I think it would make sense to tell other countries about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022294be2e145f44fc5aa6a0d64c460c76b\u0022\u003ECivil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2737de4283e467a8c1cbeadc1ad402e\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000487\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022794cda3fadb94c948caff9909fb7a745\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022794cda3fadb94c948caff9909fb7a745\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Associate Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E As I was saying before the lunch break, the bill also amends several other Acts to ensure that the special insolvency regime provided for in the Aircraft Protocol prevails over any inconsistent domestic processes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe bill also makes changes to the Civil Aviation Act to streamline the civil aviation rule-making process. Transport legislation, including the Act, contains provisions authorising the Minister of Transport to make ordinary transport rules. These include requirements relating to public notification of, and consultation on, intended rules, and a mandatory 28-day rule between the gazetting of a rule and when it comes into force. These, together with the subsequent addition of a Cabinet process, have resulted in a complex and lengthier rule-making process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIn 2008 the previous Government decided that the rules system should remain, but should be more flexible. This Government agrees with that approach and has moved more aggressively to streamline the rule-making process and reduce overall costs. This bill therefore amends the Civil Aviation Act of 1990 to enable civil aviation rules to be made by Order in Council, to repeal mandatory notification requirements and replace them with a requirement for notification as considered appropriate by the Minister of Transport, and to repeal the mandatory 28-day rule. It will also align the Act with the Land Transport Act of 1998 in relation to incorporation by reference of standards into rules, and the power of the director to determine\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022781b8208a6534832a4223d6a3cc17be3\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. With respect to the Minister\u2014oh, the microphones have come on. We could not hear the Minister because of the noise in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201d18e47196746de80a40503aa2901d7\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is quite right. There was noise on both sides of the House, and I was waving and gesticulating to people for them to calm down, rather than interrupt the Minister\u2019s speech\u2014and now we have interrupted it. Could I just make the point that there is a lot of extraneous noise in the Chamber, and could people give the appropriate courtesy to Nathan Guy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279a5260eb8fe41d08d65ceeb72491fc3\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for that. As I was saying, it will also align the Act with the Land Transport Act of 1998 in relation to incorporation by reference of standards into rules, and the power of the director to determine technical matters under these rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe Government would like the potential financial savings to our aviation industry to become quickly available this year. A 3-month time lag before accession to the convention and protocols is effective means that for accession to be in force by 1 October this year the bill would need to progress through all stages by 24 June. Subject to Royal assent occurring by 29 June, the instruments of accession could then be lodged by 30 June, and accession be in force for New Zealand 3 months later. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3905847e8f64750a98a56219a4e0dc5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3905847e8f64750a98a56219a4e0dc5\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in support of the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. I congratulate my local MP, Nathan Guy, on how well his reading is coming on. He read that speech beautifully. Maybe the national standards will help some people, after all. In that respect, he brought energy to legislation that the House finds itself in urgency to consider today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4558378abf34b3d898b3f7844de6e16\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Where did you get your suit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfbd7fd42b9d4ca8932fff2d20ba55b8\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: The question is where he got his suit from. I bet it is a foreign suit. I bet it is an import. I can guarantee that it will not have been made locally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThis bill, as the Associate Minister of Transport explained, is highly technical in nature; I think his speech made that pretty clear. It brings New Zealand into line with one convention that presumably, we hope, will have quite a practical impact for a number of countries, including New Zealand, in respect of the way in which international financing is handled for assets such as aircraft and aircraft engines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003ELabour will be supporting this bill. It is unusual for Labour to support legislation that is introduced under urgency, not referred to a select committee for public consideration, and not given the chance for reflection, but I am aware that the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee has conducted quite an extensive and, I am advised, exciting inquiry into the Cape Town convention. The committee has left no stone unturned when it comes to the various clauses that make up that convention. Therefore, the legislation that flows from the inquiry that the committee has undertaken will probably on this occasion suffice as enough for the ratification of that convention by Parliament, through the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI want to speak about only a couple of issues at the first reading. I know that my colleagues who have sat through the inquiry will want to make more fulsome comments on some of the other matters. I know that my colleague Darien Fenton will have some issues around civil aviation safety, which I know she is keen to explore with the House as this bill goes through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EIt seems to me that one of the best things about this convention is that it takes an activity that is, by definition, multinational, although there are strong domestic aviation markets. When we think of long-distance air travel, it occurs between countries. Therefore, it involves many, many Governments in many, many jurisdictions and different environments where alternative legal operations take place. In an industry where the capital costs of these assets, like aircraft and aircraft engines, are so significant and, therefore, the leasing of them is not a cheap action, the way these arrangements are arrived at becomes critical for a competitive aviation market, for the ability of air travel to take place without the steep costs of compliance because of the concern of creditors for the location of their assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EOne of the things the convention is doing that is very good is it is recognising the whole point of air travel, which is contact. We have economic contact through trade. New Zealand is a small country that exports significantly some our freshest products, which need to arrive at market in a fresh condition, and of course air freight is very important. There is also people to people contact, as people travel as passengers in civil aviation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe convention will allow creditors to file directly with an international registry by computer. They will be able to do that electronically, thereby cutting enormously the amount of time it would take if this had to be done by another form of civil aviation, such as pigeon post or carrier mail. They will be able to do that from wherever they are in the world. Wherever there may be a dispute or a concern about an asset, that action will be able to take place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI notice that the Irish Government has volunteered to host matters where there is litigation or where there is the requirement of the intervention of a court. From what I have read, that seems to have been welcomed by most of the players who take an interest in this area as a way of Ireland\u2019s efficient legal system effectively exporting its skills, and the location of Dublin is where any disputes will take place. This will reduce risk and uncertainty, and of course that has to be good for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EBut this is an international convention, and we should not focus only on the benefits for this country. By signing this convention, it is hoped that developing countries will be able to take advantage of the lower costs to them by having such a regime take place. Often in those countries, where there are fledging markets, those costs can be very high barriers for people wanting to enter into international aviation. So our hope would be that not only is this measure good for New Zealand, because of our geography, isolation, and strong dependence on exporting, but also it will bring some assistance to other countries around the world\u2014particularly the developing countries, where achieving these sorts of arrangements in civil aviation could make quite a difference to those countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EDespite its complexity, I do not think that the bill will find itself the subject of huge attention this afternoon. Its moment in the spotlight might be more brief than the work that has been done to bring it to this point, but that should in no way take away from the fact that it is quite a practical resolution of an issue that every year different companies and countries find themselves dealing with. The Labour Opposition is very pleased to support the first reading of the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, and we will be supporting it as it passes through the House this afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f20f8725159645b28b32c4011755f5b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f20f8725159645b28b32c4011755f5b8\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E In following on from previous speakers in respect of the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, I say that everybody will be pretty much in unanimous agreement that when it comes to our transport sector\u2014especially aviation, which is such an international part of the transport sector\u2014we want to have uniform rules that are consistent with other countries, so that those who provide those services know they have some security. This bill will give security to those who hold financial security interests in the cross-border transactions involving planes and suchlike. It is an important thing for our international competitiveness, for our international connections, and for our international transport linkages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe fine Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, with members from both sides of the House, will take an active interest in this bill and make sure that everything is well advanced through this House. We want this process to be successful for all parties involved and for the country so we get those transport issues sorted in order to give security to everybody who will be needing it in the future for their investments. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u002249d111fe011448019c2a95ed5440470d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249d111fe011448019c2a95ed5440470d\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is an absolute privilege to take a call on the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill 2010. I have been waiting with bated breath and great anticipation to take a call on this bill, because it is such a riveting and exciting bill! But, you know, I do not want to belittle the bill, because I know it is important. As other members have said, the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee examined the treaty and reported back to the House 4 or 5 weeks ago. I want to thank very much the officials who took us through this convention. It was a very interesting experience, and I think the officials did their very, very best to try to make it interesting for the members of the committee, and I genuinely thank them for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe national interest analysis that is attached to the report from the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee on the treaty examination is very, very thorough, and perhaps, if I have the chance later on in the Committee stage, I may talk about some of the advantages. But there are also some disadvantages, as explained to us by the officials, that I think are worth considering. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ELabour is supporting the bill, because it is pretty uncontroversial. It amends domestic legislation so that New Zealand can be party to an international convention on aircraft ownership. I cannot help myself with this legislation, because here we are with a convention. I am aware that New Zealand tries to be a good global citizen by participating in global agreements and playing a leadership role in that. So the question comes up again for me as to why we support this convention but not one on fundamental rights for domestic workers, which our Government voted against at the International Labour Organization 2 weeks ago. It voted alongside countries like Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Kuwait, to prevent an international standard that would provide protection to domestic workers throughout the world but also in New Zealand. We have not received an explanation for why our country voted in opposition to countries like the USA, Australia, the UK, and the Philippines, and I think it is very damaging to our reputation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAs I said, although I am pleased that we are supporting this bill across the House, I am still very, very concerned about our position, especially as a former National Party MP, Marilyn Waring, has offered an apology to the women of the Commonwealth for New Zealand\u2019s vote against the proposed ILO convention. She said that New Zealanders are \u201Cashamed, saddened and outraged that the principles which we hold dear, and try to live by, have been abrogated by the government of New Zealand.\u201D Despite what the Minister says, this is a convention that would have affected New Zealand workers. There are around 20,000 home-based care workers in New Zealand, and thousands more throughout the world. So we talk in this debate about developing countries and how this convention will help them, but we do not care about the thousands of domestic workers throughout the world who have no rights. The overwhelming majority of New Zealand domestic workers are very poorly paid, and they are excluded from the discrimination provisions of the Human Rights Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAlthough we support this convention, the following question came to my attention when I was thinking about this: how can we agree on this across the House, when we have this situation at the ILO? New Zealand has had a good reputation, particularly under the previous Government, and that is slowly being eroded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAs other members have mentioned, this bill also contains amendments to the Civil Aviation Act. The amendments are designed to introduce more flexibility into civil aviation rule-making. I want to make a couple of comments about air safety. The Minister is not here, but perhaps later I can ask him some questions. The Civil Aviation Authority does a good job, given its paucity of funding and the challenges of regulating aircraft operation in New Zealand, commercial and recreational, which is a very wide-ranging operation. An issue that came up recently concerned Queenstown Airport. We wrote to the Civil Aviation Authority asking about safety issues at Queenstown Airport. It is a difficult airport and there have been media reports about a lack of experience in the control tower and an increasing number of safety incidents. The Associate Minister of Transport, Nathan Guy, will be pleased to know that Airways Corporation of New Zealand wrote back to us on behalf of the Civil Aviation Authority with assurances that staffing and training levels are more than adequate for this particular airport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThat is all well and good, but what happened last week? Two pilots apparently used their airside security passes to sneak on to the Queenstown Airport runway in the middle of the night to race a car. The boy-racer legislation did not apply to them, obviously. Needless to say, those pilots put the lives of others at risk, and they ended up being banned from all airport land for 2 years. OK, that is the right outcome. So the authority that Mr Guy is responsible for has provided us with perfectly reasonable answers to our valid concerns, but I have to say that these perfectly reasonable answers have not prevented a couple of cowboy pilots from drag racing on the airstrip at Queenstown. I encourage the Minister to be more vigilant about these sorts of things. We cannot have these sorts of security concerns happening at our airports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI want to raise another issue in respect of civil aviation. The Associate Minister recently made an announcement about the monitoring of commercial pilots for drug and alcohol issues. There are two things. The Civil Aviation Authority will work with the Ministry of Justice to introduce random checks on commercial pilots for any criminal convictions that have not been declared, and, secondly, it will introduce an electronic database that will enable them to more effectively gather information and monitor any trends. Labour supports these initiatives, and I really want to say that Labour members do not believe there is any room for drug and alcohol use among pilots. I do have to reflect, though, that Air New Zealand has had monitoring systems in place for many years, and it was quite aggrieved at the suggestion that it had not. In actual fact, the problem is with small aircraft and small commercial airlines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIt seemed as though Mr Guy was being pretty proactive in terms of his press release of 1 April. But what it did not say was that the Civil Aviation Authority had repeatedly been asking for more powers to identify pilots with drinking problems, but unfortunately the Minister had been sitting on his hands. The Christchurch Press obtained a briefing to the Minister under the Official Information Act. It was written just a month earlier and states that the existing system is heavily dependent on individuals acting responsibly and self disclosing information relating to their drug and alcohol use. But it also shows that the Civil Aviation Authority had proposed a series of measures, including limits for drug and alcohol use, but that nothing had been done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAs members will see, although Labour supports this convention there are some concerns. If I had more time I would mention many more, but perhaps I will get to those during the second and the third readings. We have many concerns around civil aviation, the things we need to be doing in New Zealand to ensure the safety of people who fly in New Zealand, and, of course, meeting our international obligations, thereby making it easier for our airline industry to operate internationally and to meet our obligations to other countries. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa52b56964104933ac9158d301931928\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa52b56964104933ac9158d301931928\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. It is a great honour to be here today to talk about the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. We could hear the passion in the Minister\u2019s voice when he was talking before. As I have been tweeting over the last couple of days about the House being in urgency, I have been asked by lots of people in tweets, blogs, and Facebook messages why the House is in urgency. They are asking about the most important thing that we will be debating and which regional council we are sacking this time. I have been telling them what I will be debating, which is the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. This is an important bill. The Green Party will be supporting it, given that we have 4,431 aircraft, including microlights and balloons, in New Zealand, and they flew 214 million kilometres in the last year. It is an important bill, and the Green Party will be supporting it. But I want to outline a few parts of the bill and a few of our concerns as we go into this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe bill, the convention, and the protocol are private legal agreements that will significantly improve the financial security for investors in cross-border trades of things like aircraft, railway rolling stock, and other large and expensive equipment. The convention enables creditors to access a registry. I wonder whether the status quo actually works all right. We have a register in New Zealand for our aircraft companies. It will be considerably more expensive to register through the new Irish registry under this bill. But I guess the airline companies and other parties who will be using the provisions of this legislation will point to the fact that it will help them with finance when they are purchasing new heavy equipment such as aircraft, and that some of the financial benefits could be in the order of $18 million to $325 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe have to question whether we even need this treaty. It is interesting that the House is in urgency to look at this bill. Perhaps we needed urgency to get this done, when we consider that the treaty was signed in Cape Town in 2001 and came into force in 2006, that the Ministry of Transport began looking at it in 2004, and that the previous Government agreed in principle to support it in 2005. We are 9 years on from the signing of the treaty, so I guess we needed urgency in order to give it a push along. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EMy final point, and something that I look forward to picking up in my second reading speech, is that on the one hand this bill is not controversial. It is logical to establish an international rule-based framework to look at the issue of default. We support having greater international cooperation and reducing the risks for Kiwi and foreign corporates. But on the other hand do we actually want to see a growth in airline emissions? In my second reading speech I will look at some of the environmental and climatic impacts of the worldwide aviation industry, and I think an important question is whether we in New Zealand want to support and subsidise the pollution from our aircraft industry, when we know that the world is burning and we do not have a \u201CPlanet B\u201D. I look forward to addressing that issue in my second reading speech, but I say the Green Party will be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022 data-id=\u00227566285cb1f04b9aadc35314eb3b5317\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227566285cb1f04b9aadc35314eb3b5317\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to support the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, and I will begin with a couple of remarks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EFirstly, I welcome the support that the Opposition parties are giving to this bill in the House, and I express my regret that the Opposition does not find its way clear to support other significant bills that this Government has brought to the House. In particular, the significant tax cuts that this Government is to deliver to New Zealanders on 1 October this year come to mind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EThe second observation I make is that the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee was well briefed by officials on the significance of this bill. If memory serves me right, I think that I was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022309ace015aae4b8599442b1bafee1f0c\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: It doesn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231e4d0d915074997b4b729799fe8e0b9\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: My memory serves me very, very well\u2014I am sorry, I have forgotten the member\u2019s name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb1cbca43b6a4688857688eeab92ecbe\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s Hughes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df3da8d3f7d34adba819e09523d2718f\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to Mr Hughes. My memory serves me very, very well sometimes. However, I am not very good on the names of Labour Party politicians. As I was saying, from my recollection I was the only member of the select committee who asked the officials for explanations. I was particularly interested\u2014[Interruption] I ask the chair of the committee whether I am wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c28b237e33f40be98a81d33f729c84b\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: No, I don\u2019t think so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293305cedb8cf43e989f45fd788c313ac\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed, I think I am right. I was particularly interested in knowing whether this bill, when it becomes law, will reduce the need for lawyers to become involved in this sort of thing and for litigation to occur. I am pleased to report to the House that I was assured that there would be considerably less need for lawyers and less need for litigation. That was a good enough reason for me to support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d10143485d9c4fdc84de0d115649511c\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t hear me bashing teachers!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e97e12831e614ff19aebaf8806eaa41f\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY\u003C/span\u003E: From listening to the interjections that are coming from a corner opposite, I am almost inclined to take the view that we could do with having fewer lawyers in this House, as well. After all, our job is to make the law, not pontificate about it, and there is a big difference between the two in relation to the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EThis convention is about the financing of mobile equipment, and by \u201Cmobile equipment\u201D we mean things like aircraft, railway rolling stock, and even space assets. That is what the bill is all about. The bill is designed to make raising and repaying the finance needed in order to purchase mobile equipment like aircraft much easier. At the moment, if there is a dispute over, for example, payment for release, it can involve more than one jurisdiction, a whole pile of other laws, and far too many lawyers. This bill is designed to simplify the process and to give much greater certainty around it, not just to those who lend the money but also to those who borrow it. There will be greater certainty. The ultimate objective, of course, is to ensure that those who lend the money no longer require a premium charge, to account for the risk that they have to take. By reducing the risk, the raising of funding to finance the purchase of mobile equipment like aircraft should become simpler, and it should be cheaper. Of course, for a country like New Zealand, which depends on aircraft more than many other countries do, anything that makes that dependence cheaper is to be applauded. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u0022b810672bc5a9473ab9e6f7d226e243d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b810672bc5a9473ab9e6f7d226e243d2\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is with great pleasure that I too rise to discuss the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. I too am a member of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee and have been briefed on this convention. Labour supports this bill, as others have said. It is uncontroversial. It has a couple of purposes, one of which is to amend the domestic legislation, including both the Civil Aviation Act 1990 and the Personal Property Securities Act 1999, so that New Zealand can become a party to the Convention on International Interests in Mobile Equipment, which Mr Peachey just described to us. I will not go into a lot of detail about that, but I will reinforce the key points. This convention will standardise transactions involving movable property, particularly aircraft and aircraft engines, and will set down international standards for the registration of ownership. The second part, which I will come back to, clarifies some rather convoluted legalese in the Civil Aviation Act relating to the making of rules and who can apply them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe Cape Town Convention and its associated Aircraft Protocol were originally negotiated under the auspices of a United Nations agency. I concur with the comments made by my colleague Darien Fenton about the importance of international conventions and of New Zealand playing a lead role in them and making sure that we are at the forefront of compliance with international best practice in every regard, including in employment-related matters and transport-related matters, which we are currently discussing. Essentially, this convention aims to establish a balance between enhancing creditor rights, which will, as Mr Peachey said, help to reduce aircraft financing costs, while also improving debtor protections. It is designed to be flexible, and it can be applied to any type of high-value mobile equipment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe Aircraft Protocol that I mentioned earlier, the Protocol to the Convention on International Interests in Mobile Equipment on Matters Specific to Aircraft Equipment, applies to aircraft, airframes, aircraft engines, and helicopters above a minimum size or threshold. I thought that the House might be interested in getting a little more detail on that, because it is fascinating. Let me tell members that it applies to aircraft that can carry at least eight people or 2,750 kilograms of cargo, aircraft engines with a thrust exceeding 1,750 pounds of force or 550 horsepower, and helicopters that can carry five or more passengers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EAs the name of the treaty probably gives away, the treaty resulted from a diplomatic conference held in Cape Town, South Africa in 2001. I am sure that members really want to know about the mechanics of the convention! The mechanics of the convention centre on the recognition of international interests in mobile equipment and the creation of an international registry in which creditors will file these interests. As has already been mentioned, that registry will be maintained in Ireland. The international interests are secured interests in a uniquely identifiable object. Once those international interests have been filed by a creditor, they become searchable in the international registry held in Ireland. The creditor\u2019s interest will have priority over all subsequent registered interests and unregistered interests. The underlying premise is simple: if we can reduce some of the risk to financiers in extending credit, we can reduce the financing costs for the debtor and to the industry as a whole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003ECurrently the problem is that financiers have to rely on differing national laws to protect their interests. Clearly, those laws would be quite variable around the globe. In many countries the risk factors are significant, because the local laws are not very useful in protecting lenders in the event of default or bankruptcy, or because they are highly unpredictable. Of course, as we would expect with regard to aircraft, this uncertainty is compounded by the fact that aircraft can move readily between countries. It can be very difficult for a financier to know where an aircraft will be on the date of default or bankruptcy. That uncertainty drives up the cost of aircraft financing, which is then reflected in the interest rates that the financier charges the debtor. As I have said, the convention will reduce that uncertainty and will provide financiers with a number of key rights in respect of any aircraft. Those rights are, should there be a default, to deregister the aircraft and procure its export, to take possession or control of the aircraft, to sell or grant a lease for the aircraft, and to collect or receive income or profits arising from the management or use of the aircraft. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe extent to which the rights that I have just outlined will be a function of the declaration that we in New Zealand make will be seen at the time that we formally ratify this convention. Obviously the international registry based in Ireland, as we can expect in the modern age, will be able to be directly accessed by computer from anywhere in the world. That will be very useful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI will go on to talk about a couple of other matters. The first of these concerns the flexibility of civil aviation rule-making, which is the other major part of this bill. The present provisions relating to the making of ordinary rules are not very straightforwardly expressed. The bill specifies that an ordinary rule allows a matter to be determined by the authority, the director, or other persons. It empowers the authority, the director, or any other person to impose requirements or conditions. There are consultation requirements there, which I am very pleased to see; I am a great believer in consultation. During my short time in Parliament so far I have been disappointed by a number of the consultation provisions that we have seen, and particularly the consultation regarding the Auckland super-city. That has been a sham. The legislation that has reduced local democracy and corporatised local government in Auckland has been rammed through by the Government with a mere nod in the general direction of consultation. So I can only hope that in relation to the important matter of the civil aviation rules, the consultation requirement will be more robust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe second issue that I will also talk to members about relates to helicopters, because helicopters are covered by this convention. Those that are certified to transport at least five persons, including the crew, are included in the Cape Town Convention. A situation has arisen in New Zealand regarding helicopters, and it is important to talk about it. A requirement by the Civil Aviation Authority is causing some concern in relation to the work of rescue helicopters. They now apparently have to be twin engined, because we cannot afford to take the risk of a machine crashing into a hospital. I note that no rescue helicopter has yet crashed into a hospital in New Zealand. But just to be certain that it will not happen, that requirement is apparently now being put in place. The effect of that requirement can be quite troublesome for all of the fine people involved in operating rescue helicopters in New Zealand\u2014something that we are all proud of, and reliant upon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe upshot is that in quite a few instances single-engine machines now have to operate away from their dedicated helipads. That will require patients to be potentially carried by stretchers, for example, or ferried by an ambulance at a critical time. We all know about the golden hour\u2014I hope we all do. I hope we have all had our first-aid training and that we understand the importance of the first critical hour after an accident, and the need to get medical attention. Any barriers to helicopters getting patients to hospitals are very worrying given that golden hour, which is essential in saving the lives of critically injured people. So we are concerned about the directive relating to helicopters, helipads, and hospitals. We do not think that it is a necessary requirement in terms of safety. We are certainly worried about the implications for a patient\u2019s health. There are, of course, also implications for all of the good people who raise funds from the community to get the machines that the rescue trusts operate, which are so important to us in a country that is not highly populated and where people can be a long way from the nearest hospital. So we question why the Minister, Steven Joyce, or his Associate Minister, Nathan Guy, did not step in to show some leadership over this issue of helicopters. These are our rescue helicopters, as I have been saying. Perhaps somebody would like to deal with that question in the course of this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI will leave the bill at this point for now. I do have a couple more speeches, members will be pleased to know, to give on this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u00222116a83a443647e4afcc52b1e701fd68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222116a83a443647e4afcc52b1e701fd68\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare. Apparently, this bill, the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, is about establishing procedures to protect investments in aviation and to cover the financing, purchasing, and leasing of aircraft, but it also gives the Minister of Transport extra powers in the making of civil aviation rules. That raises a couple of points that I would like to speak to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe first is the Manukau claim. When the Waitangi Tribunal first heard this claim in the 1980s, it brought to the table the Auckland Regional Authority and the civil aviation division of the Ministry of Transport in order to question them about the site that they had chosen and the site that they used. It was noted back then that when Cabinet made the land available in 1955, there had been no acknowledgment of either M\u0101ori land title or the need to protect M\u0101ori land interests. Auckland Airport sits on 1,300 hectares, including reclaimed land that had once been a local iwi fishing bank and that was the basis of the Manukau claim. Expanding airport operations have led to even greater restrictions on other fishing banks and creeks traditionally fished by local M\u0101ori, and they have also led to the release of excessive levels of pollution from stormwater discharge, aviation fuel spills, and industrial chemicals and fluids.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIn summing up the Manukau claim, the Waitangi Tribunal had some harsh words for the Crown regarding the pollution of the harbour and the loss of tangata whenua lands: \u201C\u2026 underlying this claim is an enormous sense of grievance, injustice and outrage that continues to haunt the Manukau Maori and bedevil the prospect of harmony in greater Auckland.\u201D Yet for all the laying down of rules of engagement between M\u0101ori and the Crown in that case, the exact same problem occurred when a local marae raised its own longstanding claim to land and airspace around Rotorua airport. Back in the 1960s, local authorities in Rotorua had decided to bulldoze the whare t\u016Bpuna of the Ng\u0101ti Uenukuk\u014Dpako people, because it was in the flight path. The iwi, of course, refused. Fifty years on, the airport authority builds a new $24 million extension to the runway, and, again, nobody is surprised that there is no regard whatsoever for the impact on the marae, the k\u014Dhanga reo, or the iwi itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party will be supporting all stages of this bill, but the examples I have cited here raise the question again as to when it is appropriate to amend legislation to take into account the circumstances of iwi. It gives us the opportunity to remind the House again of the importance of recognising M\u0101ori interests in policy planning and legislation. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bd05035003b144a79e5fb9e42a5b2422\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u00220af9a1b208e549579a1c4ae777ba5716\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220af9a1b208e549579a1c4ae777ba5716\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Transport: I move, That the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. I understand that Supplementary Order Paper 145, which makes technical amendments to the bill, has been lodged following consultation between officials and aviation, finance, and legal stakeholders. This bill\u2019s amendments simplify or clarify the relationship between the Convention on International Interests in Mobile Equipment, the Protocol to the Convention on International Interests in Mobile Equipment, and domestic legislation. The rule-making provisions are also clarified. In the first reading debate, the Minister advised that accession to the Cape Town Convention and the Aircraft Protocol would bring economic benefits to our aviation industry. Clauses 12 to 14 of the bill come into force on a date to be appointed by the Governor-General by Order in Council, and will implement the Cape Town Convention and the Aircraft Protocol when New Zealand\u2019s accession comes into force. It is proposed that that date be 1 October 2010. The rest of the clauses come into force on 1 August 2010 and will implement changes to streamline the civil aviation rule-making process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003ETurning to the provisions of the bill, clause 4 amends section 2, which relates to interpretation. The amendment reflects the new section 34A inserted by clause 8 and adds the Governor-General as someone who may make civil aviation rules. Clauses 5 to 11 amend the rule-making parts of the Act, including clarifying powers of the Minister to make ordinary rules, matters to take into account when making rules, and revoking of prescriptive procedural requirements. In addition, the Governor-General will be able to make ordinary rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EWe now come to the parts of the bill that when enacted will enable New Zealand to conform with the provisions of the Cape Town Convention and the Aircraft Protocol. Clause 12 inserts new Part 12, which implements the Cape Town Convention and the Aircraft Protocol. Members should note the principal proposed amendments in this part of the bill. The amendment gives the convention and the protocol legal status in New Zealand and ensures they will prevail over inconsistent New Zealand law. It also clarifies that law that is consistent with, but additional to, the convention and protocol still has effect. The amendment enables the Governor-General to issue copies of any declarations made by New Zealand. Contracting States are to exclude or modify provisions considered to be incompatible with their legal culture or tradition. The amendment also adds circumstances in which the removal of an aircraft from the New Zealand aircraft register can occur. Under the protocol, a creditor can require the deregistration and export of an aircraft in the event of a default. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EClause 13, via schedule 1, adds a new schedule 7, which sets out the text of the Cape Town Convention, and new schedule 8 sets out the text of the Aircraft Protocol. In Part 2 of the bill, clause 14, via schedule 2, sets out consequential amendments to other enactments. The key area here is the Personal Property Securities Act 1999. The security interests in aircraft objects, covered by the Cape Town Convention and the Aircraft Protocol, are one form of security interest in personal property. Therefore, there will be situations where both regimes will apply to the same security interest. To avoid the potential for conflict from the existence of two registries, the bill amends the Personal Property Securities Act so that it is clear that in relation to aircraft objects the Cape Town Convention and the Aircraft Protocol will have primacy. The effect of that will be that the parties to a transaction will determine for themselves whether they will use the international register, the Personal Property Securities Act, or both. Finally, clause 15 relates to transitional provisions for material incorporated into rules via reference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, it is necessary to pass this bill to enable the aviation industry to access the financial advantages of the Cape Town Convention and the Aircraft Protocol, and to streamline the aviation rule-making process so that our rules do not lag behind developments in the aviation sector. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u002241fb627c619644958cd39c4bf7a6d73d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241fb627c619644958cd39c4bf7a6d73d\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I have decided to vote in favour of the second reading of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e9965c274e24b018a69cc7d0867d19c\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: You had to be woken up to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237a7acb5de1c4780a0f52144fc464f6f\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Not at all, I say to Mr Mallard. In fact, I have been very impressed by the way the Government has deployed its most charismatic Ministers to the shepherding of this legislation through the House this afternoon. I realised that they are taking it very seriously. When even an old warhorse like Allan Peachey can find it within himself to muster a bit of praise for a political opponent, we know that maybe this is something that we can come together on. Maybe we can unite this lovely land around the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. So it has been quite an afternoon already. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe Hon Kate Wilkinson has set out her very clear views on this area. I noticed she touched on some of those issues in her maiden speech, so it must be quite a thing to come here today and speak more in favour of it. There are only two issues that I want to touch on in the second reading of the bill, but before I do I will pick up on a reference that was made in the first reading by the member for T\u0101maki, Mr Allan Peachey. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EMr Peachey spent a lot of his contribution saying that if the bill results in fewer lawyers being involved, then he was in favour of it. That was the central premise of his contribution to the debate. I thought it was very unusual for the member of Parliament for T\u0101maki in Auckland to be campaigning so openly against lawyers, given what a high proportion of the legal profession reside in his constituency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282276e01bc4a4b29a38b6998d8f406b0\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I explain to the member that three of my four children are lawyers. The message was for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3bbb51b398542c6a0bfd7866136432c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Peachey, that is interesting. I am sure there are other family details you would like to share with us, but this is not the place and that was not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5b379f881b643b4acb07150eb95624c\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: I am absolutely aware of the fact, and I know what those three children say about him! He wants to criticise them on the floor of the House, but they have a good old go about him as well. I am sure they will charge him extra when it comes to matters such as his last will and testament, which none of his colleagues would be in, I suspect, going on the terrible way he was been treated. After the 2005 election they all would have got something from the Peachey estate; now, I suspect, none of them will. He would have asked all three children for different iterations of that particular legal document. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EMr Peachey said he forgets some things, and I will not criticise him for that because that can happen. When he criticised the Opposition for not supporting Government tax reductions, I was immediately reminded that, as a new member of Parliament, he voted against a cut in the corporate tax rate in this country. When the Labour Government reduced it from 33c to 30c, he voted against it. He voted against the cut in taxes for savers. He voted against a cut in taxes for working families in our country. So I can understand his difficulty when he spoke in the first reading of this bill and raised those points, and I wanted the opportunity to rebut that. The great benefit of Hansard is that those things can be checked very, very quickly. Despite that, in this bipartisan way, we do want to focus on that for too long. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI come to the two points that I wanted to speak about in respect of the convention. The first is that the premise for this bill is quite simple, as other speakers have said. This is a high-risk industry. If we can reduce the risk, then that should reduce the costs\u2014particularly, the financing costs\u2014across the industry as a whole. Those costs are often enhanced even further because so many different local laws operate and they do not protect lenders in a way that is consistent, and that multiplies the risk factor and results in higher prices. We are in absolute support of the premise, and we are very grateful to those who have negotiated on behalf of New Zealand in order for us to accede to this convention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe second point I want to make at the second reading is about the changes to the civil aviation law. Although we are all transfixed by the Cape Town Convention at the moment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca27493c31e2469daaec70f0fe588de1\u0022\u003EHon Dr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely transfixed!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4a67d08324b43a48fdb37d7cdb05a6b\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: I see that even the former Auckland polytech law lecturer Dr Mapp is transfixed on this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242665e659e67472fbccec127ee978d33\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: No, he was an assistant lecturer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c74b8d59c064d86a8b584e942e19532\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: An assistant lecturer? I thought he was a full lecturer in his own right. He was an assistant lecturer, and there is no shame in that, I say to Mr Mallard. I want to be accurate for the sake of the Hansard in that respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThis may have been one of his areas of expertise. I recall once visiting \u014Ch\u0101kea air base, and Dr Mapp arrived by aeroplane, which was quite good. In fact, I think he flew himself down to \u014Ch\u0101kea on that occasion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b3113527324451c80da98b0e0e64d1b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I know that the member is having a little bit of fun in this instance, but I think he should at least try to make some reference to the facts. I was an associate professor at the University of Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022313376cc36fb4fa5a824ebe4d122e732\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Mapp, that was not a point of order. But as member has made the point to Mr Hughes, I am sure Mr Hughes will feel very grateful that his knowledge on these matters has now been improved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3b03ee6d46c4349a6a883cefe0dafc0\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I am sure that the member will be rushing off now to correct his Wikipedia entry, because I suspect that we are not all as familiar with his CV as he might have assumed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI was in the middle of referring to the fact that he flew himself into an air base I was visiting on one occasion. I know he is a very distinguished pilot. When he is buying his next Learjet, he can use the Cape Town Convention. He was in Opposition in those days. That was before he became a Minister of the Crown and took to rushing to the scenes of accidents, flourishing his business card around, and making sure that all the emergency workers knew he had just driven by. Quite how he copes when he flies over accidents, I am not too sure. Maybe the copilot has to bungy out with Wayne Mapp\u2019s business card and say: \u201CDid you know that the Minister of Defence just flew by?\u201D, because no one else would know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI do not want to be distracted in any way from the important changes to the Civil Aviation Act 1990 that this bill takes into account. I see that we have been focusing on the convention, but the bill addresses other matters, and we should make reference to them in the second reading. There is a fair amount of legalese, I guess we would call it, with regard to the civil aviation rule-making in our current law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EIn the Committee of the whole House we will consider the clauses that seek to rectify the language to make sure that the rules are expressed in a way that is slightly easier to follow, and we will consider the clauses that set out which persons are able to determine, particularly, those ordinary rules. The legislation sets out what the Minister must take into account when that is happening and also what consultation requirements need to be followed. I think that is quite a good thing to do, as well. The less complex that laws like this can be, the better I think it is for, obviously, the industry players\u2014those who have a very detailed technical knowledge\u2014but also for those who have only a passing interest. From the average member of the public\u2019s point of view, having legislation that is easier to understand gives more confidence in our civil aviation system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003ESo the first reading is down, the second reading is still going, and Labour members are still in support of the bill. We are walking in lock step with the National Government on this particular item, and we look forward to asking the Minister of Transport, Steven Joyce, some questions in the Committee of the whole House. We will expect those questions to be answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI serve notice of that to the Hon Kate Wilkinson now, too. I know that she has been reading through the bill quite a lot, so she will have the opportunity to answer our questions then. I am sure that when the third reading comes and people look to see what is happening in the House, she will know that if she wants those 43 Labour votes, there is a lot riding on her ability to answer these questions during the Committee of the whole House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00225f28767424744cb6acefacda5978430b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f28767424744cb6acefacda5978430b\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E In the second reading of this Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, I think we have strayed a little way off the track of what the bill is about, but I think that shows the context\u2014that everybody is fairly much in agreement and that there is not a great deal of debate about it. It is something that needs to be done and needs to be done quickly, so that New Zealanders and the industry have the Cape Town Convention as a reality in the way that they do business in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe nature of this bill has been pretty well exposed by members, as have some of the policy drivers behind it. We have also heard about some of the bill\u2019s background, such as the naming of the type of aircraft involved and what advantages this legislation hold. Some of those advantages are basically so that the security interests can be registered. We can have security as an investor in those kinds of instruments, and we know that it will be internationally competitive. They will apply when one\u2019s plane is travelling from country to country and when it is based in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI think that it is important when we look at this bill to note that we rely heavily on the aviation industry as a trading country and a tourism destination but also as a manufacturing exporter. In Hamilton we have some very big manufacturing exporters of aviation products, especially Pacific Aerospace Corporation, which manufactures a lot of planes that are sold around the world. I am sure that those in the New Zealand aviation industry will be very comforted to know that the Government is working hard for them by delivering rules and regulations that will assist them in their work, rather than having the rules and regulations that they have had in the past that have been detrimental to them carrying out their business. We look forward to this bill going through its further stages in the House, and we thank the other parties for their support so far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd9114b2b55048ab98688df8e467fda2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd9114b2b55048ab98688df8e467fda2\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is great to take a call in the second reading of the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. As my colleague Darren Hughes said, we continue to support this bill. We are supporting it at its second reading. We will see how it goes in the Committee stage, but so far so good. One of the things that I forgot to do when I was talking earlier on about the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee was to send my best wishes to the Hon Tau Henare. We wish him a speedy recovery. He plays an important if somewhat belligerent role in the select committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e615d57669464d9d832d52667770b01f\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing to what he plays in the lobbies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224650e47c4471470f947690ef11b26a1f\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014no\u2014and he also played a very key part in the examination of this treaty. I know that he asked some very insightful questions, and he will be deeply, deeply disappointed that he is unable to be here today to see this bill pass through its stages and go through to its third reading. But, as I said, we all wish him well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAs we have all outlined, this is not a controversial bill. We are supporting it. It amends domestic legislation so that New Zealand can be a party to an international convention on aircraft ownership. That will be beneficial for developing countries as well as our own country because of the high interest rates that airlines often have to pay. New Zealand, by the nature of our geography and isolation, has a long and proud aviation history. We have long been part of the international aviation community, so it is very sensible for us to be part of this convention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI take the opportunity to congratulate Air New Zealand, our national airline, on its very high standards and on its many awards, including the prestigious Air Transport World Airline of the Year award for 2010, which is apparently widely regarded as being the Oscars of the airline industry. To the men and women, the workers and the management, of Air New Zealand, I offer my congratulations on that award. I think it is great. I am sure that all members in this Parliament support our national airline. I hope that we all support it by flying with Air New Zealand whenever we can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIt would also be remiss of me not to remind the House that a Labour Government had to rescue our national airline after the previous National Government wrecked it. I have been a bit concerned over the last couple of weeks that this Government is heading into a whole new era of privatisation of our precious assets. Its half-hearted support of rail speaks volumes about its commitment to the strategic transport assets that are owned by New Zealanders\u2014and proudly owned by New Zealanders. After all, if the Government is prepared to flog off Kiwibank, who knows whether the national airline will be next? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EGoing back to matters of civil aviation, I cannot resist the urge to talk about one of the ridiculous situations that has arisen in our own country because of interference by the Civil Aviation Authority. I am talking about the rest and meal breaks dispute between the air traffic controllers and the airports. They reached a sensible agreement about sole air traffic controllers; let us understand that there are only a small number of these. We are not talking about every airport in the country; there are only a small number of them. They have peaks and troughs so there are times when aircraft are coming in and there are times when they are not. The agreement they came to was that they could take their breaks when there was no air traffic. That would work out perfectly well and would fit in with the very flexible and sensible legislation. In fact, the current Minister of Labour called it in 2008 common-sense legislation when it was passed by the National Government. However, the Civil Aviation Authority said that this was nonsense and that we could not have a flexible agreement where workers who worked 9\u00BD-hour shifts with no breaks could have a break when the aircraft were not coming in. It said that they had to have their breaks all at the same time across the country\u2014quite ridiculous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, the Government used that dispute as an excuse to rush in some very poorly drafted legislation that will essentially allow employers to require workers to work for nothing during unpaid break time, including air traffic controllers and, I assume, pilots. I think that is called slavery; I am deeply concerned about that. What is more, the proposed legislation is so crazy that it will enable an employer to take away all breaks and compensate employees with a muffin, a cracker, or a glass of wine. It is quite ridiculous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235df70e829e64b0390cab5ccc10390bf\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: Or a muffin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec2f9a1b6c6342eb884fcd7f04af509d\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: I said a muffin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8c1aa84ae7e4f1f818cede6bf9fcd93\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: Muffin break.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ae3b82ed0cf4d65a9b9b800b1b204d8\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EReturning to the bill, the airline industry is an important part of our economy. We have a fantastic national airline. We have good support from the Civil Aviation Authority even though it makes some mistakes from time to time and is desperately underfunded. There are real advantages to us signing up to this convention, and that is why Labour continues to support this bill at its second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3efed73f1104e819a9964f0dc858a86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3efed73f1104e819a9964f0dc858a86\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou, kia ora. It is a great honour to speak in the second reading debate of the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Today we are seeing why it is so important to have the Greens in Parliament. I have not heard a single member talk about the consequences of this bill on the environment or on our communities. We have talked about how this bill will make it cheaper for aircraft to finance aircraft and other heavy arms, but no one has talked about the impacts. The fact is that aircraft emissions have grown by 73 percent in the last 40 years. That is vitally important because climate change is the greatest threat facing the planet. [Interruption] I will let the honourable Minister Mapp repeat what he said; I do not know what he actually said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262a20ea25dab4f14a241e213131dab5b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a relatively small percentage of the global total.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b19f6b5acbe94020991626c12ece5f49\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to touch on that. It is around 3 percent, as the Minister will be aware. But the Minister will also be aware that there are significant debates globally about what the actual aircraft emissions are and what the global warming potential of those emissions are for the planet. The emissions are not just carbon dioxide but also nitrous oxide, which has a greenhouse potential nearly 300 times worse than carbon dioxide over a 100-year time frame. The Minister may also be aware of the radiative forcing effects from the contrails, which are condensation clouds at high levels, and the impacts of water vapour. It is estimated that sometimes those could be up to 10 percent of global emissions. I hear what the Minister is saying, but I think what we are hearing is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254cecb82cffc456b827886e742fa4edf\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is slapped down by the youngest member of the House\u2014fantastic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234d8eb54f1ae4127be013afff08ffaa8\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: I thank my colleague Mr Hughes. But I will get back to the issue of climate change. Today we are discussing how this legislation will make it cheaper for aircraft when aircraft emissions continue to grow. It is a big issue because greenhouse gas emissions in New Zealand and around the world are rising. Ladies and gentlemen, it is not just a problem for the polar bears any more; climate change is a problem facing the planet right now. Last year Kofi Annan, the former UN Secretary-General, published a report saying that 300,000 people die every year as a result of climate change, not in 10 years and not in 20 years. We are not just talking about the polar bears; we are talking about right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn 2007 Sir Nicholas Stern said in the Stern report that it is cheaper to take action now. It is expensive to tackle climate change, and we hear about that almost daily from Mr Boscawen. The cost of tackling climate change is in the order of 2 percent of global GDP, which is not an insignificant number. But when we look at the estimates of the costs of climate change in our lifetimes, we are looking at potentially 20 percent of global gross domestic product being affected by climate change. The time to act is now, and if we keep increasing our emissions from aircraft in New Zealand and around the world, I ask where else we will make needed cuts to stay within the safe climatic band, which is 350 parts per million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe bill makes it cheaper to own and operate an aircraft, which, I guess, we all agree with, and which is what we are talking about today. But we are not asking the important questions of whether we want to increase air travel in New Zealand or whether we want to make an essentially unsustainable sector continue to grow when we know the impacts of climate change. We know oil will not get any cheaper. In Louisiana over the last couple of months oil drillers have had to go further and deeper into more extreme environments, because the easy sources of oil have already been tapped. We are reaching what is described as peak oil, which is the end of cheap oil. The members of the Finance and Expenditure Committee heard about that in a letter from Dr Russel Norman, and I hope that the committee will make an inquiry into it. It is an important issue because in New Zealand, nearly 10 years ago, we sunk over $800 million into saving our national airline. It is an important issue, but, as the price of fuel continues to increase, we will see lessening usage internationally and lessening returns on our considerable investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EClimate change is a major issue for the New Zealand brand. The Green Party talks about it a lot because this Parliament is seeing a stark contrast in vision at the moment. On one side, we can mine our treasured places, try to squeeze more dairy production\u20144 percent a year of continual growth\u2014and keep investing in mad motorways, which do not make economic sense. On the other side, we can focus on our \u201Cclean, green\u201D brand, making that a reality, and focusing on premium products. Those are the kinds of questions being asked considerably more and more by hundreds of thousands of tourists who are flying here every year. We have, potentially, 80,000 people coming to New Zealand for the Rugby World Cup next year. We will have maybe a billion people watching. But with the Rugby World Cup, New Zealand could become like China at the time of the Beijing Olympics, with questions being raised on human rights. New Zealand could become like South Africa at the time of the Football World Cup, with questions being raised on racism and housing issues. Will the Rugby World Cup highlight our hypocrisy on our green issues? Will it be around the fact that we are not facing up to the growth in our airline emissions, and that we are not facing up to any sector growth of emissions in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI wish that we were debating a bill that would see aircraft become more sustainable. I am not a doom and gloom merchant. There are options available for aircraft industries worldwide. I wish we were discussing the \u201CWellington Convention\u201D. There is an option going around the world pushing for more stringent aircraft sustainability standards. I wish we were pushing for regulation of greenhouse gas emissions from the aircraft and shipping industries, which, so far, are not counted under the Kyoto Protocol. I wish we were including those gases in our Kyoto register and in our emissions trading scheme. I know it will happen one day, but the sooner we face up to the fact that our considerable 3.4 million tonnes of emissions that come from our international aircraft sector is massive and will be counted one day, the better. We may as well start facing up to the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ESo in summary I am disappointed that no one else in the House has raised these sustainability issues and has asked the core question. Sure, we want to make it cheaper for aircrafts to operate in New Zealand and globally, but do we want to support and keep subsidising the aircraft industry in New Zealand through our emissions trading scheme? It is being subsidised for its pollution when we know that we do not have a second planet. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1b50051bb9d44b7a3ffda5c47b530a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1b50051bb9d44b7a3ffda5c47b530a1\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will go back to the issues around the civil aviation Cape Town Convention and the Aircraft Protocol that goes with that, and I will talk a bit more about that in the second reading debate on the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. The protocol, as I said, relates to aircraft that carry at least eight people, and helicopters that carry five or more. The treaty resulted from a diplomatic conference held in Cape Town in South Africa in 2001, as the name suggests. I thought people would be interested to know more about the conference. It was attended by 68 countries and 14 international organisations. Fifty-three countries have signed the resolution proposing the treaty. The convention portion of the treaty came into force on 1 April\u2014gee, that is a bad date for conventions to come into force\u20142004 and has been signed by 28 countries. The protocol, which is the bit that specifically applies to aircraft and aircraft engines, took effect on 1 March 2006 when it was ratified by eight countries\u2014Ethiopia, Ireland, Malaysia, Nigeria, Oman, Panama, Pakistan, and the United States. In the US the treaty was approved by the Senate in 2003 and implemented by the full Congress in the Cape Town Treaty Implementation Act 2004. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe other dimension is the registry of mobile assets. It has been set up under this convention to establish the record of international property interests in the equipment covered by the treaty, which is located in Ireland. Mediation cases for leasing disputes are to be heard in the High Court of Ireland. That is just a bit of background. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EWhen we look at the bill itself, we see that the overwhelming portion of it is the convention and protocol, which are appended to it in the schedule. We have the full text of the civil aviation Cape Town Convention and the Aircraft Protocol I have just referred to appended to this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of things I would like to cover off. The first is the Civil Aviation Authority itself. It operates in an international system, hence the need for conventions like this. The Civil Aviation Authority, as it says in its annual report, is an international system and it works within frameworks set by the International Civil Aviation Organization. As a contracting State within the International Civil Aviation Organization, New Zealand has responsibility to comply with the standards set by that organisation. It has a number of effects. Interestingly, in relation to the points just made by the Green member, the other strategic objectives\u2014it has a series of objectives for 2010, focused on enhancing global aviation safety and security\u2014include minimising the adverse effects of aviation on the environment, in particular aircraft noise and aircraft engine emissions. I think there is an awareness of the problem. It is an issue for a country like New Zealand, where we are reliant on aviation. We are a country a long way from markets that we trade with, and, indeed, we are a country of destination for tourists from all around the world, so we are highly reliant on aviation to bring people to this country and to get our products to market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EMr Bennett, the chair of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, noted that there is another important role in that we export in the aviation area. I was interested to hear him talk about that matter, because my late father, Ron, worked at Hamilton Airport. He was a mechanic, but he went on to get his trade certificate in aircraft engineering. He worked there producing top-dressing aircraft, and they were world-leading aircraft. I thought it was interesting that Mr Bennett noted that as a small but important part of our manufacturing exports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003ETalking of that select committee, I would like to join with my colleague Darien Fenton. She took the words right out of my mouth in that I too wish a speedy recovery to our fellow select committee member Mr Tau Henare, who is, as we all know, unwell at the moment. While I am talking about that fellow member, I note that he is in the interesting position of having his own member\u2019s bill before the select committee. That bill is an interesting one. It is in relation to employment rights. We talked in the first reading about the fact that New Zealand is a country that takes international obligations very seriously. We think it is important to sign up to relevant conventions and to play a good role in the international community in regard to many areas. We have often been in a world-leading role, and certainly that is the case in terms of international labour standards. New Zealand played a founding role in the International Labour Organization. We have a proud history in that organisation, and in any given international labour conference, which is an annual process and is in fact going on at the moment, often New Zealand will have people who end up chairing committees or who are involved in drafting committees, and we are seen as a country that takes these matters seriously. So it is a bit of a shame that Employment Relations (Workers\u2019 Secret Ballot For Strikes) Amendment Bill is one that I think will see us going in the reverse direction from what we would want to in terms of workers\u2019 rights. Whether that will have the effect of our coming up against what would be seen as international best practice remains to be seen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EGetting back to the this bill, as I was saying before, the full text of the convention is appended to the schedule of this bill. Members will be pleased to know that I do not want to go through this bill, article by article\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e9bb89ffa404be88c740e0f2f1b5719\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Oh.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ce8bc16261e4aa087009722ee7d2e9b\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, OK, because there is a desire for that, I will just tell members what the respective articles are. I will not read them out to members given they run to many, many pages. In due deference to my colleague from the M\u0101ori Party, let me say that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8b8b9a76dce409983db4a1f57639878\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Just the flavour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f600a3a53894ca0bc78a89abc213643\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Article 1 is \u201CDefinitions\u201D, and that goes to several pages, as members can imagine. Article 2, \u201CThe international interest\u201D, provides for the constitution and effects of an international interest in certain categories of mobile equipment and associated rights. Article 3 is \u201CSphere of application\u201D, article 4 is \u201CWhere debtor is situated\u201D, article 5 is \u201CInterpretation and applicable law\u201D, article 6 is \u201CRelationship between the Convention and the Protocol\u201D, article 7 is \u201CFormal requirements\u201D, and article 8 is \u201CRemedies of chargee\u201D. As members can see, this goes through a range of articles, right through to article 39, 40, 54\u2014perhaps I will not go through the rest of them for members in the House. Seriously, these are important matters that will streamline and standardise processes internationally and that hopefully will have an effect that means there is greater certainty for those who are financing aircraft. We are making sure that instead of a wide range of different domestic legislation applying, we will have standards. It will be simpler to use the registry located in Ireland to identify what the status of ownership or whatever of a particular aircraft is, and I am sure we are all pleased to know that any disputes will be dealt with in the court system in Ireland, which I am sure is a very robust one. I will leave my contribution to this second reading there, and I look forward to further comment in the third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022294c658cd82c48abbaef5d06ba49c7c9\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022343734db2477458384ea7a4bed484354\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022343734db2477458384ea7a4bed484354\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the Committee stage of this debate to be taken as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022898daf595e4941229b7e688fe523d81b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there anyone opposed to that course of action? There is not. Leave is granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002266660c18cee746b0815aa2067e796781\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2, schedules 1 and 2, and clauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u00222342cbfdd1bf44ecbb52e9866f3ba435\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222342cbfdd1bf44ecbb52e9866f3ba435\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Committee of the whole House is now considering the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, and as signalled to the Minister during the second reading, the Opposition has some questions on which we are seeking clarification. I have three or four questions, and I know my colleagues have some as well. I should say that we are now considering every clause, both parts, plus the title and commencement as one question, so the comments and observations we are making range across the 15 clauses and the various schedules that are set out in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EMy first question to the Minister in the chair, Kate Wilkinson, is to note that Part 1, as she will be aware, inserts a new Part 12 into the principal legislation. I want the Minister to comment on which of those parts will take precedence if New Zealand domestic law goes down a different path from what may be in a clause within new Part 12. Once it is inserted into the principal legislation, presumably Part 12 will not be in a position to be amended by the New Zealand Parliament, because it will need to reflect the requirements of the Convention on International Interests in Mobile Equipment, which have been carefully negotiated by our negotiators and those who participated in the agreement. If Parliament is to consider other matters to do with civil aviation that amend the principal legislation, I ask how new Part 12, which we are inserting in Part 1, will make a difference in our law for this country. I think that goes to the heart of economic sovereignty for New Zealand. If the Minister can give us an answer on that matter, it will answer some questions we have about how these conventions fit in when they are not stand-alone and end up fitting in with existing New Zealand legislation. I would be very interested in her comments on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EClause 6 sets out matters that are to be taken into account by the Minister when making rules. It is an amendment to section 33(2) of the Civil Aviation Act. I wonder whether the Minister could set out the kinds of matters the Government thinks the Minister will have to take into account when he or she is making any rules, or recommending the making of any rules, as part of clause 6. I am also interested in clause 7, which is the procedure for making ordinary rules, which the Minister must take into account, and the question of consultation. I wonder how that was arrived at. Clause 7(1)(b)(i) mentions \u201Cthe persons, representative groups within the aviation industry or elsewhere, government departments, and Crown agencies;\u201D, and it would be helpful if the Minister gave us a flavour of the kinds of organisations we are talking about there. When the Government uses language like that in legislation that, of course, we are supporting, to what extent is it making that consultation as broad or as narrow as possible? Given that we are talking about simplifying civil aviation rules in other parts of this bill, it would help if she could clarify for us who will be affected by the consultation provisions set out in clause 7 for the procedure for making these ordinary rules. Those are just some questions I have, and if we could get some answers or clarification on them from the Minister, I would be most interested. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI make the observation that new section 34A, inserted by clause 8, gives the Governor-General new powers to make ordinary rules in respect of civil aviation, and ask whether the Government gave any consideration to the Governor-General\u2019s other role as Commander-in-Chief of New Zealand, and whether that vests just far too much power in the hands of one person. Oh, my luck has turned: the Minister of Transport has arrived, just to take those questions. I hope the Minister of Labour, who has been the Minister in the chair, will give him the notes she took of my questions. It would be a shame if I was to be seated, and he was not in a position to answer my questions. I am not getting an indication from either of them that that is the case. I will update Mr Joyce, who was no doubt behind the Cape Town Convention, and the suggestion for it, because we know from the feature articles that he has arranged to be written about himself what a quite high opinion he has on the world stage. New Zealand would be quite a small market for him, so probably in Cape Town he was the guy who sealed the deal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI will recap, now that the Minister who is sponsoring this legislation is in the chair. I have a question concerning clause 6, which covers the matters that are taken into account when making ordinary rules. I have another question about clause 5, on the power of the Minister to make ordinary rules, and a further question on the insertion of new Part 12, which sits in Part 1, into the principal legislation. If there are changes in other civil aviation law that are not consistent with the convention, and if the convention is now being codified as the new Part 12 of the law, I ask which one takes precedence. I presume the Government is not in a position to make any amendments to new Part 12, which is presumably the text of the convention that we have signed up to at another level. If the Minister could answer those very simple and very few questions that we have put to him\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a77300b9aab445fcaf609480b892c8a9\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: They are searching questions, not simple. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc6a73188b164478877b4a8fbdce5aef\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: It is very generous of my colleague to say so. As this Minister is constantly telling his colleagues, nothing is beyond his purview, remit, or ability, so we look forward to elucidation by him of the questions I have asked, and those of my colleagues Darien Fenton and Carol Beaumont. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u002273bb2f8743d94160b18344f9689f388d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273bb2f8743d94160b18344f9689f388d\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E While the Minister is consulting, I ask that he take note of my questions as well, because they are serious questions. I will refer to new Part 12 and the interpretation clause. I note that the national interest analysis states that although reservations are not permitted, declarations are. It states: \u201CArticle 56 of the convention and Article XXX of the Aircraft Protocol provide that States may make up to 20 declarations, \u2018opting in\u2019 or \u2018opting out\u2019 of various articles in the Convention and the Aircraft Protocol. Declarations are intended to allow some tailoring of the Convention and Aircraft Protocol to domestic circumstances.\u201D It goes on to state that some declarations must be made at the time of accession.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI am very, very interested to get information from the Minister about declarations. In new section 104(1), declaration means \u201Ca declaration made by New Zealand under the Cape Town Convention and the Aircraft Protocol\u201D. I am very interested to know whether the Government intends to make any declarations on accession in relation to the convention, and whether it has any intention to make future declarations. It is a very, very important question. I know that the Minister is occupied at the moment, but I would like an answer to that, because the answer may well make a difference in terms of whether we continue to vote for the bill. A declaration can completely change the nature of a convention, so it is very, very important that we get an answer to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe other part of my question relating to new Part 12 is that there is a definition of a \u201CContracting State\u201D, which means \u201Ca State that is a party to the Cape Town Convention and the Aircraft Protocol\u201D. In the national interest analysis it talks about the \u201CObligations which would be imposed on New Zealand by the treaty action, the position for reservations to the convention, and an outline of any dispute settlement mechanisms.\u201D I have read this several times, and I appreciate the efforts to which people have gone to try to make this clear to us, but I really cannot understand much of what it means. I suppose my question is what it means in terms of the obligations of New Zealand. What will we have to do as a country? Will there have to be Budget appropriations for the implementation of this convention? Will it require more resources for the Civil Aviation Authority? Will the Governor-General need to have more resources? I would like some clarification of what the obligations are for New Zealand, and what the implications are in terms of resourcing. Now that the Minister has returned from his distraction, I draw his attention\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022598f84953a3d41fe9159187679b984e4\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: China\u2019s not a distraction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dbee0823c014cf599472cfec5dee24d\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: I know he is working; I am not being critical. I know he is just trying to get an answer to our questions. My question earlier, I say to the Minister, was about declarations, and whether we intend to make any declarations on accession to the convention, because they must be made at the time of the treaty, according to the national interest analysis. I would like to know, if that is the case, what they are, and what difference it will make in terms of the international obligations we have as a country under this convention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u002255f6c7b7fcf94b4d9c0d1630e3e95f1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255f6c7b7fcf94b4d9c0d1630e3e95f1c\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is with great pleasure I rise again to speak on the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill 2010. I have focused primarily to date on the actual Cape Town Convention and its associated protocol. I will talk now about the provisions in the bill that provide more flexibility in civil aviation rule-making. Like my colleagues Darren Hughes and Darien Fenton, I will also ask the Minister some questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe reason for the changes in Part 1 are to do with making sure that ordinary rules, and the making of ordinary rules, are expressed in a more straightforward way. New section 28(5), substituted by clause 5, rules that an ordinary rule may allow \u201Ca matter to be determined \u2026 by the Authority, the Director, or any other person; or \u2026 empower the Authority, the Director, or any other person to impose requirements or conditions \u2026\u201D. Amendments are also made, in clause 6, to provisions relating to \u201CMatters to be taken into account in making rules\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe consultation requirements in section 34(1), which must be observed before ordinary rules are made, are amended by clause 7(1) to require the Minister to \u201C(a) publish a notice of his or her intention to make the rule;\u201D and to consult certain persons. I will talk a little more about that provision. It is primarily outlined in clause 5, which amends section 28, the \u201CPower of Minister to make ordinary rules\u201D. I am very interested to know, in relation to the consultation requirements\u2014and I know that the Hon Darren Hughes has already asked some questions on this\u2014what the Minister of Transport\u2019s view is on what \u201Cconsultation\u201D really means, and how robust, I suppose, he believes the consultation process needs to be in the civil aviation area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EWhen I look at the annual report of the Civil Aviation Authority, I see that the authority needs to deal with some very important matters. As I noted earlier, the authority is part of an international system. Civil aviation, by its very nature, is an international system. The role of the Civil Aviation Authority is to provide policy advice and civil aviation rules development; to certify and license aviation participants; to monitor the compliance to civil aviation and security standards by participants; to educate about and promote aviation rules, advisory circulars, and other safety and security-related information; to investigate aviation incidents and analyse safety trends; to enforce civil aviation legislation and rules; to publish aeronautical information; and to oversee the administration of the Health and Safety in Employment Act and the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act 1996 in the aviation sector. That is a fairly significant range of responsibilities that the Civil Aviation Authority has. They are quite critical: the safety of people who are flying, the safety of people who work in civil aviation, and making sure that we comply with important legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI am interested in how the new consultation requirements outlined in clause 5 of this bill, the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, will work, and in how robust the consultation processes are that the Minister is envisaging in relation to the development of rules in civil aviation. We all know that consultation can mean different things to different people. Unfortunately, I have had the experience in my working life where consultation has meant that an employer, for example, might tell a group of workers something and put it in a notice, and that was seen as consultation. I am hoping that consultation in this regard will be more robust, and I look forward to hearing the Minister\u2019s response to that question. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad423c2025ed47838e013c310f7f5843\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad423c2025ed47838e013c310f7f5843\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I thank Opposition members for their fulsome analysis of this Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Bill. I think it is very important that it be analysed fully. I will offer a couple of matters in response. Firstly, the declarations that were the subject of one of Darien Fenton\u2019s requests are contained in the national interest analysis. They are all laid out there for the member, and I refer her to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EIn regard to\u2014working alphabetically is, I think, the best way\u2014clause 6\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ac0977755794d4abf4f2ff1319f3083\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not alphabetically; that\u2019s numerically.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3d077e9a2ba455d8a8400c2a6abeab7\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: No, clause 6 begins with \u201Cc\u201D. The clauses are all alphabetical and they all begin with \u201Cc\u201D. Therefore, I can put them in whatever order I wish for that member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff99eb8bbef646e79841d58607c596b7\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s the Government\u2019s numbers man!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f5617ace99040179d66ae3434804264\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Clause 6\u2014alphabetically and, subsequently, numerically\u2014amends section 33, \u201CMatters to be taken into account in making rules\u201D, of the Civil Aviation Act. It aligns section 33(2) with new section 34A, and it states that the Minister is to consider those matters when recommending rule-making action to the Governor-General. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EClause 7 concerns the procedures for making rules, and the whole point of this exercise is to streamline and simplify the rule-making process. It provides some flexibility in terms of the notification requirements. Obviously, that still has to be appropriate to the rule-making procedure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EOne of the issues we have in civil aviation is the very long time that it takes to make rules, and we are trying to simplify the process and speed it up. In fact, civil aviation is unlike other industries. The civil aviation industry, in the general rules, is looking to make civil aviation rules faster to match the International Civil Aviation Organization requirements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EClause 8\u2014which Darren Hughes was concerned about with regard to the Governor-General and his unfettered and outrageous powers; I am paraphrasing the member a little bit\u2014refers to the Governor-General making rules on the recommendation of the Minister. The Governor-General does not wander out and make rules on a daily basis to suit the Governor-General. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EFinally, clause 12 does give the convention primacy over the relevant New Zealand law. The convention is consistent with, and additional to, the relevant New Zealand law. That is the point of clause 12. I think that covers most, if not all, of the matters raised by members opposite. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 145 in the name of the Hon Steven Joyce be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2, schedules 1 and 2, and clauses 1 to 3, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bc21c011c6274381b8eb83a1848b5e2a\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u00223393545774f44035b704216380ff33fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223393545774f44035b704216380ff33fc\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. In the first reading of this bill I advised that by accession to the Convention on International Interests in Mobile Equipment and the Protocol to the Convention on International Interests in Mobile Equipment, New Zealand will become part of an international system to protect commercial security interests in mobile aircraft equipment. Some 34 States and the European Union have already ratified or acceded to the convention, and 31 States and the European Union to the protocol, so it is clear there is global support for the regime. Likewise, the New Zealand aviation sector and the financial sector have supported accession. It is worth repeating that the estimated financial savings over the next 6 years to the aviation industry, including to Air New Zealand, could range from $18 million for savings in export credit guarantees to a figure as high as $325 million in reduced financial charges. The benefits will continue into the foreseeable future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe Government is pleased to be able finally to bring these opportunities to the aviation industry. I appreciate the support given to this bill across the House, and therefore to the Government\u2019s intention to accede to the Cape Town Convention and the Aircraft Protocol, by members on both sides of the House. Similarly, members\u2019 support of the amendments the bill makes to streamline the rule-making process will ensure that our rules do not lag behind developments in the aviation sector. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u002268e8863d13454981aa7d2dab0ae41b30\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268e8863d13454981aa7d2dab0ae41b30\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill has made good progress through the House this afternoon. It has met with support from right across the political spectrum in a way that we do not often see in the House. Obviously members have reflected on it and believe it will be of practical application to New Zealand, to people who travel, and to people who export. As I said in my first reading speech, I hope it will also, critically, enable those in developing countries\u2014be they State-run airlines or private enterprise airlines\u2014that face significant barriers to entry into this market to offer airline services for passenger and freight flights around the world. That has to be seen as a good thing; it cuts the cost of business. This bill does not necessarily, of itself, change the quantity of flights that are taken, but it acts as a way of providing security for those who lease out these very expensive types of equipment and for those who seek to operate them, to ensure that they are able to offer people all around the world, in some of the most impoverished parts of the world, access to these sorts of services for their economic and social development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the points that the Green Party made in respect of the environment. It is a matter of enormous regret that we hardly ever hear Government legislation explained in any context of sustainability. That seems to be very much out of vogue with the present Government, but I hope that with continued activism on these issues by parties on this side of the House, we can make sure that those issues are taken into account as legislation is developed. When we are incorporating an international treaty, it somewhat limits the ability of the New Zealand Government to make changes, but it would have been nice if at least we had heard some reference to sustainability from Ministers as they spoke. That did not happen today. There was more of a limited view on the dollars and cents aspect, and not looking at the opportunities this might provide for people in some of the poorest parts of the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EDuring the Committee of the whole House a number of questions were asked of the Minister of Transport. He took the last speech in that part of the bill\u2019s consideration. His answer to some of the questions was to simply reread the clauses that were already published, which was not entirely helpful, because we already had them. But he did answer questions in a couple of areas. He was silent on the aspects of obligations, which my colleague Darien Fenton mentioned. I was interested that he did not pick up the issue of consultation, because that is what one of the clauses we debated in the Committee stage was about. As we sum up the bill and sum up what it does, one of the reasons we questioned that issue is that we know this Minister has a unique definition of \u201Cconsultation\u201D. Some of the processes he follows for consultation are not the standard ones that we would see in many other places.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bdbf9684e804cfaa1b8e84a73610c21\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s unfair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228487fdc9ea2e4fa985a0d00702796d8d\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Let me give him one example. This is the Minister who rolled up to the Kapiti coast one day and said that, despite what his party campaigned for in Opposition, he was going to build a four-lane, 100-kilometre expressway through the community. He asked them to let him know what they thought about it in 4 weeks\u2019 time, as he was not very busy for the next month, so he said they could kick the tyres. He asked them to let him know what they thought about it. I suspect as that plan goes through more and more tyres will be kicked, and some of them will be on the Minister\u2019s Crown car.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feb3092f31f0478cb56a5469aaf2778c\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: What about the optics?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7d0f2959b584daf990e6758ce93dba8\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: The optics get worse and worse on some of these things when we do not consult, which is why we are pleased that this civil aviation bill is an example of consultation. Parliament has come together, united on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe Minister\u2019s other definition of \u201Cconsultation\u201D is that if he lived in an area 35 years ago, and if he heard of something when he was growing up there as a teenage boy, he can come back years later and say that they all knew about it, because he remembers it from when he was a teenager on roller skates. This is the definition of something that everyone should expect!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EPutting aside what everyone had thought for the previous 20 years would be the case, the expressway proposal for Kapiti that he is advancing is a disaster. I am pleased that he has at least one bill on which he is able to bring Parliament together. What we wanted in Kapiti was Transmission Gully; a local western link road; improvements to State Highway 1; a commitment to our rail services to push electrification further north, up to Levin, \u014Ctaki, and Shannon; and the electrification and double tracking that would have ensured quality, reliable, and affordable public transport services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI guess what I am saying, as we sum up the bill, is that there are two ways of operating. The Minister gets a big tick for this bill\u201410 out of 10. We will all vote for it. But some of the unusual approaches he has taken to other areas of the transport portfolio are, I think, worthy of mention at this point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003ELabour has offered its support for the bill. The reasons are obvious and manifest, so I will not take any more time now other than to say that I hope the kinds of arrangements that should flow from this convention actually do flow. I am sure that the officials, who have worked very hard on making this legislation acceptable in the New Zealand context, will be monitoring it and will be in a position to offer advice as time goes on, on whether it has had the ability to meet its objectives, particularly the objectives that members have drawn to the attention of the House and the Committee today, which are the things that we see as being most important to the passage of this bill. The Labour Opposition offers its support for the third reading of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022502d2ec180424ad98deb643291ac7739\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022502d2ec180424ad98deb643291ac7739\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I am speaking in respect of the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Most members of the House have exercised the debate on this bill very fully today, and it looks as though there is full support across the House, and that is good to see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe bill amends domestic legislation and some company insolvency and statutory management legislation to enable New Zealand to take part in the convention, known as the Cape Town Convention, and associated protocols in respect of basic aircraft equipment\u2014basically, the Aircraft Protocol and the Cape Town Convention. Those two important documents then become part of our legislative framework in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe bill amends the powers in the Civil Aviation Act in relation to the making of civil aviation rules. New Zealand\u2019s use of the Cape Town Convention and the Aircraft Protocol will support an international legal regime regarding security interests in aircraft, and potentially enable most aircraft operators to secure savings in funding and transaction costs in future aircraft acquisitions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis bill is important. It gives us some consistency with other countries and with international obligations. It enables some flexibility in terms of civil aviation rule-making, to strike a balance between our international and domestic requirements so that we are more responsive to changes that may occur in the aviation sector. All parties look as though they are supporting the legislation, so we thank them for their support and for the way that this bill has gone through the House today. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022574d789dfde84bd187d3f897bb3024f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022574d789dfde84bd187d3f897bb3024f7\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to take a call in the third reading of the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill 2010. I think it has been a very, very interesting debate this afternoon. One never knows what topics will come to the House that will take us into all sorts of interesting territories, and I think we have had some very good discussions on this bill. I am pleased that the Labour Opposition is supporting the third reading. I want to go back and reinforce the work of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee and the officials. Obviously a lot of work has gone into this bill; there is no doubt about that. Negotiations have been involved, and the officials have been involved in them. I thank the officials who work in our Public Service, who work for the people of New Zealand, for all of their work that goes on behind the scenes. I also thank them again for their efforts to try to help us understand what is indeed a very technical bill, but we all seem to understand that it is a very, very good thing, and that is why we are supporting it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI wanted to pick up my colleague Carol Beaumont\u2019s point about consultation. I think this is a good model of consultation that the Government could consider for future bills. I was looking at the national interest analysis, which talks about the consultation that took place. Obviously this was started under the previous Labour-led Government, so there was consultation with the aviation sector, the Financial Services Federation, and Toll NZ in 2005-06, and then in May 2009 further consultation was conducted with a range of parts of the aviation sector and aviation stakeholders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to go through them. There was a variety of views to start with on this bill. Air New Zealand, of course, first proposed consideration of accession, and as a group of companies continues to support accession. I am pleased, just speaking about Air New Zealand, that I have had the opportunity again today to commend our national airline, to say how proud we are, and to say how thankful we are that a Labour-led Government rescued it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fbf6e1002e348e290e6c72674c454c9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Bought it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcba1e74d4a04485b5d06cd5088db1ec\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014bought it, for the people of New Zealand, and it is a very high-quality, high-standard airline. The 8,000 workers who work for Air New Zealand do a fantastic job.  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAirwork (NZ) Ltd supports accession to the convention. The Qantas Group is no longer here, but its subsidiary, Jetconnect, was neutral, but it has now decided to support accession. Pacific Blue was originally supportive, but it did not respond on the subject of internal transactions, so I do not know what happened with it. The Aviation Industry Association of New Zealand can see benefits to industry from accession, and remains supportive. The Flight Safety Foundation was originally supportive, provided that internal transactions were excluded from coverage, but it has since agreed to internal transactions being covered. The Royal New Zealand Aero Club, which is a general aviation interest group, supports accession. Toll NZ supports accession to the convention, and it wants to be consulted in the future regarding accession to the protocol on railway rolling stock, and KiwiRail has now confirmed that position. Vincent Aviation Ltd supports accession. The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association was consulted but did not respond, and then a range of ministries were also consulted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAs I have said, the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee then examined this treaty. With the assistance of officials, we were given a very good explanation. As I said, it is a highly technical convention, so we really appreciated the fact that there was a briefing to the committee, because sometimes select committees can decide that these things are just a little bit too boring and that there should be just a standard report back to the House. We did not do that; we asked for a briefing. As I said, we appreciate the efforts that the officials went to in order to help us to understand the convention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ESo I am pleased that Labour is supporting this bill. As I said, we have had an opportunity to traverse many areas in this debate. There are some issues that I would like to repeat very briefly on the matters of conventions. We are disappointed that we seem to be able to support some conventions but not others. Other conventions would do something about the fundamental rights and protections for workers, in particular, and other members have talked about other conventions. There are some civil aviation authority issues, there are some air transport issues, and there are some safety issues. I am interested in those, and, again, I think the Civil Aviation Authority does a fantastic job with the scarce amount of resources it has. I had a bit of a concern that it would be expected to implement this convention with no extra resources. We asked the Minister about that, but we received no response. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIn closing, I thank everybody again\u2014the officials in particular. It is good to be part of a bill that the whole of Parliament is supporting, and we are pleased to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u00226e85585203b3404d99a2d543f64db357\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e85585203b3404d99a2d543f64db357\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I was not going to take a call on the third reading of the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, but given that Minister Joyce is here I thought I would take the opportunity to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EFirst of all, I would like to send my best wishes to Tau Henare, who is a member of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. I thank the officials who have worked on this bill for all the hard work that has gone into it. I would also like to thank Darien Fenton for her contribution to this debate. There are other conventions that we probably should be discussing, and it would probably be more fitting to be discussing them under urgency rather than this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI am glad I am supporting this bill, and I am glad that the Greens are in this House and are able to raise the environmental issues. It is a pity the Minister of Transport was not here for my second reading speech, but I am sure he will eagerly look it up in Hansard to find out about the climatic and environmental impacts of our airline industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI heard the Minister pick up on the figure that we could be saving\u2014up to $325 million. That is not a figure to sneeze at, but I guess it is in the context of other wasteful spending by this Government, including the \u201CP\u016Bhoi to Wellsford Holiday Highway\u201D, which has a benefit-cost ratio of 0.8, meaning we will not see any extra benefit economically from this one project. I would like to see more prioritising from this Government on where it is putting its transport focus and where it is spending its scarce transport dollars. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI talked a little bit about the environmental cost, but what I would like to touch on now is the opportunity cost of this bill. I would have preferred it if we were discussing the sustainability issues around the aircraft industry, because there are things\u2014and I addressed them in my second reading speech\u2014that we could be doing right now to lessen the greenhouse gas emissions and the environmental impacts of aircraft industries on the planet, on the climate, and also on the communities that are impacted by both noise pollution and particulate soup pollution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI think we could have been debating the Sustainable Biofuel Bill, which is still on the Order Paper. It was introduced by my colleague and predecessor Jeanette Fitzsimons. Air New Zealand has been using atrophy in its air fleets as a biofuel alternative to kerosene. I think this is something that needs more investigation to make sure, for people and the planet, that the sustainability of the fuel is ensured. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI would have liked to be speaking about our rail lines in New Zealand. I would have liked to be talking about a Hamilton to Auckland rail link, for example, which could help to reduce the demand for air services and be more efficient, more cost-efficient, and more economically sane than what we are seeing. This is what we are seeing overseas. Governments and private companies are putting more focus on fast and more efficient rail links than on expanding a greenhouse gas - causing aircraft industry. Once again, I lament the use of urgency. I feel it is pointless, especially in relation to this bill. It did not need to go through under urgency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ELastly, I challenge other members of this House to be like the Green Party and maybe consider offsetting their flights. It is a privilege as a member to use domestic air travel in New Zealand. We all know that the impact of one flight to the UK is more than a Swedish citizen will emit in an entire year\u2014just one flight. We are spending hundreds of tonnes of carbon on our budgets. I challenge all members to take up the Landcare challenge and think about offsetting their own flights from their own personal budgets, and pressuring the Speaker to see whether the House can do it for us. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u00224ed6fb45d8444cce9432f86b99f20b65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ed6fb45d8444cce9432f86b99f20b65\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is with great pleasure that I rise to speak on the third reading of the Civil Aviation (Cape Town Convention and Other Matters) Amendment Bill 2010. I thank the previous speaker, Gareth Hughes, for his challenge; I will certainly think seriously about it. It has been a very interesting debate. Perhaps, if I am honest, I would say that it has been more interesting than I expected it to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c8ddd6c764d46ef8b5f2c04f931c07c\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: But you had low expectations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022184fc40ec49a4f43846cad81667d8da6\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI am a member of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, which received a presentation on the matters around the Cape Town Convention. Again, I join with colleagues in thanking officials for the work they did on that convention. It is important that New Zealand signs up to relevant international conventions. The convention and the associated Aircraft Protocol deals with a serious matter, and that, of course, is about items that are by their nature very mobile\u2014that is, aircraft\u2014and about the fact that those who are financing those aircraft need to know the status of those aircraft. It provides for a simply accessed registry based in Ireland, and that is positive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe full wording of the convention and the associated protocol are part of this bill, and will be included in schedules to the Civil Aviation Act. It standardises transactions involving movable property and sets down international standards for registration of ownership and for securing the interests of all parties. As was said earlier, that is important, particularly in relation to the fact that, otherwise, rules are based on domestic legislation in different countries, and that is not really very helpful with something like a plane, which moves all around the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe other matter the bill contains is, of course, the ordinary rule, which tries to clarify\u2014let us be straightforward about this\u2014how civil aviation rule-making is done. It provides for ordinary rules to be determined by the authority, the director, or other persons, and it imposes requirements and conditions on those rules. As I outlined in some detail, consultation requirements must be observed before ordinary rules are amended. Those include the requirement on the Minister to publish a notice of his or her intention to make the rule, and to consult. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI reinforce the point that has been made by a number of speakers, including myself, that consultation requirements are important. We need to have confidence that consultation is not just window dressing or something done in an ad hoc manner, but is taken very, very seriously. I hope that the Minister of Transport has taken that on board in this discussion. Certainly, in relation to many other matters, consultation has been a sham. I use the Auckland super-city as an example of very poor consultation and of disenfranchising the people of Auckland, of whom I am one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EAlso I touched on the work of the Civil Aviation Authority, and I acknowledge that agency. It is doing a very important job. It is a very serious area, with a lot of security issues and safety issues for the travelling public and for the people who work in that industry. They have a wide range of responsibilities, which I outlined. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EA number of us have commented on the fact that signing up to international conventions is important in terms of playing our role globally. New Zealand has always taken those responsibilities seriously. The Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, of course, covers both transport matters and what are called industrial relations matters but are broadly employment issues. I have raised, as my colleague Darien Fenton did, our concern in relation to employment matters that perhaps New Zealand, through various actions of this Government, is at risk of getting into difficulty with international best practice in the employment relations area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EInterestingly enough, the Civil Aviation Authority, in its annual report, covers matters relating to employment issues. I thought it was worth noting that and congratulating the authority on the fact that it has a good-employer programme. The programme covers seven main areas: leadership, accountability, and culture; recruitment, selection, and induction; employee development, promotion, and exit; flexibility in work design; remuneration, recognition, and conditions; harassment and bullying prevention; and safe and healthy environment matters. So both the transport and employment relations matters are together in one annual report, and I acknowledge and thank the Civil Aviation Authority for its efforts in terms of being a good employer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EIt is a pleasure to join with my colleagues and stand to speak on this bill. We are, of course, continuing to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b45f572b3cfa40908ee81f9b05b656a3\u0022\u003EPolicing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022edad1c9622e045918787a8707972b77b\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002286b0941619c245f2a134697e268a5368\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286b0941619c245f2a134697e268a5368\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. Nearly 2 years ago when the Policing Act 2008 was passed, there were some provisions within that legislation that set some police staff apart from their fellow State servants. Under section 99 of the Policing Act, all constables, authorised officers, and supervisors without any constabulary powers must be placed on leave if they want to stand as a candidate in a local authority election, and if they are elected they must resign from the police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EUnder section 115 of the Act there is an exception for police who were sitting members of local authorities at the time the Policing Act came into force on 1 October 2008, but only for as long as they are re-elected. For other State servants, however, there is no law that stops them from standing or serving on a local authority. They are simply required to remain politically neutral in what they do and follow any departmental rules that are in place. Any conflicts of interest must be declared, but it is up to the individual and the department to manage them. This Government sees no reason why police should be treated any differently, and that is what this bill aims to achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIf this bill is passed, then police will have in place rules and policies along the lines of those of other Government departments, which have to manage any actual or perceived conflicts of interest that may arise. Many members of the police already have strong relationships with their communities. It is common to have area commanders, community constables, and other police working together with local councils to make their local community safer. Making it easier for police staff to serve on local councils will help strengthen that relationship. This Government is keen to ensure that when it comes to standing for public office, all police employees enjoy the same democratic rights as any other State servant. On that basis I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022529cb8e0be424bf1a0f3afb56e40d640\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022529cb8e0be424bf1a0f3afb56e40d640\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Let me say from the outset that the Labour Opposition will support this bill. As the explanatory note of the bill states, in the original policing Act, the Police Act 1958, there was a framework for prohibiting police from standing in local authority elections, but, as the bill states, the additional step required\u2014naming the relevant local authorities in regulations\u2014was never taken. It is a fact that in 2008 the Labour coalition Government at the time, with New Zealand First, passed the Policing Act of 2008, which, as the Minister said, put the prohibitions in place. Let me say that one of the primary reasons for that at that time was a political reality\u2014which I am sure all members of the House are aware of\u2014in the form of coalition partners. One has coalition partners, and one has demands from coalition partners, as this Government has had from its coalition partners. A demand was made by New Zealand First, and I think Ron Mark led the charge at the time or was particularly passionate about it for a variety of reasons, and it was agreed to. I join with the Minister\u2014I know this is a rare occasion\u2014in expressing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275ed84f81fc24dc8816f8ce29a0728c3\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: It is noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ade9d1cac425293de6601186f86a1\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: My colleagues have noted it\u2014another black mark against my name! I join with the Minister in expressing the view that the previous legislation affected about five serving police staff. One of them actually resides in my electorate and is very good\u2014and my view is that all the councillors are very good in the Waimakariri district. He is Constable Robbie Brine. There is the need to manage conflicts of interest around issues of, say, implementing by-laws that the constable may be voting on as a councillor in a council capacity, with the epaulettes off, and then having to implement those by-laws, as a policeman, with the epaulettes and the hat on. I know that Councillor Brine and the other police officers who serve as elected officials manage those conflicts of interest pretty admirably. I am sure, though, that there will be those in the community who will have a view to the contrary, but when I speak for my patch I can say that the police constable who is a councillor manages those roles professionally, and does an admirable job, as all my councillors do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI would say in passing that it is a pity that this bill could not go before a select committee, although I acknowledge that local body elections are relatively close. But our side of the House would still argue that there was time, and I know we would have cooperated on this issue in respect of, if you like, a turbo-boosted select committee process to at least examine the issues and perhaps give organisations like the Police Association and others a chance to express a view on this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI want to again join with the Minister and say that our police who act as leaders on local authorities within our communities do a pretty superb job. In fact, one could argue that the nature of police work means one would bring about a safer community. Certainly, if I use the Waimakariri District Council case I can say we have a safer community council, as many other districts and cities do. I think it adds to the expertise of a local authority to have a law enforcement officer not only as part of the discussion but as an elected official who can bring his or her\u2014in this case, his\u2014expertise to the table, especially in smaller towns like, in this case, Rangiora, or Kaiapoi, or Oxford, in my area, where police are community leaders. Whether or not they are elected officials, they are treated like elected officials, especially in towns like Oxford, and they are probably treated with a heck of a lot more respect. But they are on call 24 hours a day, and whether they are in the blue uniform or in plain clothes as a councillor, people know them because they have a high profile as police officers. As I said, they are on call, as elected officials are, when they wear the blue uniform 24/7 and when they do not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI think this bill is a good bill. As I said, I would have preferred it to be referred to a select committee for an expedited examination, through the select committee process, of the issues pertaining to it. I say that for two reasons: firstly, it is always appropriate to health-check legislation and make sure we have it right; and, secondly, it might have demystified some of the criticism from some in the community in cases where police have that dual role. I think it would have given a chance for, if not the policemen who are councillors themselves, then certainly the Police Association and others to highlight the appropriateness with which those five serving staff act as elected officials, and perhaps also highlight some of the advantages in the additional skills that law enforcement officers can bring around the council, community board, or local authority table. Certainly I do not think it is a disadvantage to have a constabulary staff member on a local authority. I think that it can only add value, because local authorities today delve deeper and deeper into social issues, especially when it comes to community safety. I have talked about safer community councils. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to combating youth crime, many of our councils\u2014and again I go back to my own council, the Waimakariri District Council\u2014are taking greater and greater responsibility for looking after their own patch, assisting the police in law enforcement, and engaging in programmes, especially around youth crime. They want to take greater responsibility for those issues. To have a police officer who not only assists with advice in that capacity but is also an elected official, I think provides some additional mana and a higher level of expertise as one who can stand around the council table and, although being careful not to speak as a sworn police officer, can speak bluntly as a person who has experience. Treading that fine line can only enhance debate, skills, and knowledge in local authorities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI know there are some who, as I said at the start, say: \u201CHey, isn\u2019t there a difficulty constitutionally?\u201D. For instance, if we take the boy-racer issue, councils are implementing by-laws. It may be the case that a police officer is called to vote and speak on a by-law about boy-racing in restricted areas, and then to put on the blue uniform on Friday night and go and implement those by-laws. There are those who may say: \u201CHey, isn\u2019t there a conflict of interest in respect of that?\u201D. To my knowledge I do not think there has been a time when those potential conflicts of interest have not been able to be managed either by the local authority itself or the constable who is the elected person. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI think that common sense prevails. Like any issue where there is a conflict of interest, there is the ability to declare it and to walk away from the table, to walk out of the room, and say: \u201CHey, it is too close to my professional occupation as a police officer.\u201D, or any other profession or occupation, such as, a lawyer, a doctor, or whatever. Those people can say: \u201CI will walk out of the room and leave those issues in abeyance for the council to decide.\u201D I certainly have not seen examples\u2014although maybe others have\u2014where those issues have not been appropriately managed. Of course, if they are not appropriately managed, the officers are responsible to their hierarchy. We have had issues of conflict of interest in regional councils\u2014even in my own patch\u2014where the Auditor-General has come in and made judgments about that. I think there are basic and common-sense mechanisms in place whereby if people are concerned about a conflict of interest they can be managed by the common sense of the officer/councillor, by the powers under the local government legislation and through the Auditor-General, and, equally, through the authorities, disciplinary processes, and common sense of the police hierarchy\u2014superintendents, district commanders, and the like. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn essence, Labour supports this legislation. We believe that it is appropriate. I suppose we would have liked to see it go through the quality-control process of a select committee, but we support the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022 data-id=\u002219a1d08f3da94345a20a464fbafa4d21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219a1d08f3da94345a20a464fbafa4d21\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to speak on the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill. The objective of this bill is to remove the restrictions in the Policing Act to enable all police employees to stand for local council elections without being placed on leave. If elected, they would not need to vacate their position as a police employee. This bill will ensure that police employees are not treated any differently from other State servants, who are not prevented by legislation from standing for election and serving on local authorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EIn response to some of the comments that have been made, regardless of whether someone is a police officer, a shopkeeper, or a Government employee in another capacity, if that person is not doing a good job as an elected representative of his or her community, then the community will not elect that person next time. That is the discipline for anybody standing for council, and it is no less so for someone who is employed as a police officer who stands for council. If the community feels that that person is just not working, then that person will not be re-elected to the council but will be left in the police employee position. That is the way of elections for local authorities. It is that simple, and I do not think it needs expedited examination, as the previous speaker, Clayton Cosgrove, suggested. I think the legislation is too simple to waste the time of the House on, when it can go through the House simply and easily. The bill just corrects one of those anomalies that we often come across in the course of looking at legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EI am delighted to commend this bill to the House and to watch it proceed through its stages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022 data-id=\u002227c46f4cc48b44fcaaf2d7520d143590\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227c46f4cc48b44fcaaf2d7520d143590\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Party supports this bill and I thank the Minister of Police for bringing it to the House. I will wait for just a second as I thought a bolt of lightning would hit me for saying that, but nevertheless it has not. I think this legislation is very important because it will clear up many uncertainties. With the Auckland legislation having gone through the House, people who are police officers have been wondering whether they can stand for election and whether the grandfathering rights they had will still prevail. I have talked to people in the House about this and I must say that I am pleased that this has happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EWe have people in Manukau who serve the council who also serve the community as police officers. Councillor Alf Filipaina is a councillor for Manukau in the M\u0101ngere ward, and he does great work with young people especially. Being a police officer does not restrict him in his council work. Very sensibly he has the ability to not involve himself in voting on certain by-laws and things like that, but also he is a person who does very important crime prevention work. The Counties-Manukau Police District is not the easiest area to police. It needs people who know their community, and I think that Alf Filipaina does. It may sound a wee bit like a party political speech to sing his praises, but he is a person whom I think the whole of M\u0101ngere is proud of. I imagine that when the super-council is selected he will be one of its members, and I think that is very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EAlf Filipaina gets out in his community, but sometimes he goes across the border. He may go away from the M\u0101ngere ward and out to Manurewa, Papatoetoe, \u014Ctara, or Pakuranga and he joins in things with a spirit that I think should be duplicated by many others. He is the sort of person we call a \u201Cdecent bloke\u201D and I think it is very important that we allow people like that to be elected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EThe chairman of the Manurewa Community Board is a guy called Mike Bailey who works for the police. He is a police officer. Not only is he the chair of the community board but also he marries people and he dispatches people. He is another person who is totally involved in his community. We have people like Angela Cunningham-Marino on the community board who is also a police officer. She works to help people in the community in many ways. It is these community-spirited people who are working to help people who are suffering from heart disease, and helping people who need guidance and strength. Having police officers like that on community boards and on councils is very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003ELabour, as I said, will support this bill. I would have liked it to go to a select committee. I know that time is short, but I thought a 1-day hearing would not be bad. We could have had the Police Association along and the Police Officers Guild, if we had had this bill before a select committee for a day. But that is not to be. I am sure\u2014in fact, I am positive\u2014that it will not stop the Police Association from having its say, one way or the other. It will do it very publicly. Greg O\u2019Connor is not slow in saying what he thinks on issues that affect his officers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to have a look at the people who want to serve their community in a way that encourages the community, rather than discouraging people. In the Counties-Manukau area we have many, many young people who have lost their way. It is the police that we look to to help those people. Yes, we know that Child, Youth and Family Services do a good job in many cases, and we know that there are other agencies, but to have people who work for the New Zealand Police and who in their own time get out and support those young people is truly important. They are the heroes of the local community. Whenever I see Alf, I see that there is a guy with a big smiley face and a warm handshake. He always greets everyone in the same way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269f840203aae4d44aff69e812e2178e0\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Sounds like me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022563c7c4103084aecbdd179db4a91fbe6\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: No, he does not sound like the member for Tauranga, who used to try to get people put in jail all the time\u2014in the end, I think that people got off because of his skills. When we have people like Alf doing the sort of work he does, it is good. We should not be putting obstacles in the way of these people wanting to stand for council. If we put obstacles in their way, then of course we lose a lot of talent and a lot of ability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EWhen a similar bill that led to this one came before the House, it was because Ron Mark, the New Zealand First Party member\u2014members will probably remember Winston Peters and one or two others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bdb309f227c4d1dab84a13ab01bacbc\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ad1e466c2e0416ab480e0a64b05d619\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, no, some people cannot remember Winston Peters. Well, I think he is busy working away. For ages and ages Ron Mark wanted no police to be on council. Even when I was Minister of Police he was trying to make sure that police officers could not work as councillors in their community. When one has\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a72d7c599474875a21a46643529438a\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: What was he?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5c6e934f6af4cb99f93b3f89be4e73b\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS\u003C/span\u003E: There is the member from the North Shore or somewhere\u2014Cam Calder, I think it is. He has woken up. I see the ornament of the National Government is smiling in the back row as well. However, in the end, we should have people who can be a bit bigger-minded than Ron Mark was. I think Ron Mark took a very narrow view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EOne of the problems when we have coalitions is that sometimes deals are done. It looked as though a deal was done with the T\u016Bhoe people, but then all of a sudden it was pulled away. That is the nature of coalition Governments. Coalition Governments make deals and they break deals. People are promised that there will not be any increase in GST, and then there is. I am not blaming just the M\u0101ori Party or ACT for that; they are all guilty, the whole lot. I think that Ron Mark went too far. He went to the stage where he personally disliked a police officer and then came up with the legislation that put on restrictions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003EI am pleased that the Minister has this bill in the House today. The Labour Party will support it. I hope that many people vote for Alf and his team when they stand at the council elections this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u002280b02e47ec7e4f8088fade766416ae29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280b02e47ec7e4f8088fade766416ae29\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party is not supporting the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill. We supported the Policing Bill of 2008, which had this change\u2014[Interruption] The Minister of Police can cackle all she likes over there, but it is important to have a chance to explain why we have decided that we will not be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EAt the time that the original legislation went through in 2008 we agreed, unusually, with New Zealand First that this issue was about the separation of powers between those who make the law and those who enforce the law, and that there was a compelling case to say that those who are responsible for enforcing the law should not be part of the process of making it. There are serious conflict of interest issues. There are issues for constituents, who may well need to have a person, like a councillor, representing them on a matter that deals with a law that that councillor may or may not have made but who is responsible for enforcing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThere are many areas of our law where we are clear on the separation of powers between those who make the law and those who enforce the law. This seems like an appropriate time to make that similar distinction. Since the time we supported the provision the last time it was put forward by the Labour-New Zealand First Government, we have had no evidence or compelling case made to us as to why we should change our position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EOf course, the difficulty is that because this Government is so obsessed with the excessive use of urgency, once again the community will not have an opportunity to explore this issue in full. This is the very important issue of the separation of powers. We would have been very prepared to consider the evidence that would have come to a select committee, in order to see what the circumstances were and to hear arguments as to whether we should continue to support this legislation. We have maintained an open mind on that basis. But because there will be no select committee process, because this Government is pushing through this legislation for no good reason, then neither we nor the rest of the community will be able to explore those issues in full. Because we supported the provision constraining police from acting as councillors or local body authorities, we can have no other position than to continue to support that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EAgain, it is very difficult when legislators such as ourselves, and the community, are unable to explore important constitutional issues, such as the separation of powers and the question of whether those who enforce the law should also be responsible for making it, because of this Government\u2019s misuse of urgency and its failure to uphold the democratic right of our community to have a say. We will not be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed5ab2591420410fa59b2c6e3777f703\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed5ab2591420410fa59b2c6e3777f703\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E At first glance, this bill, the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill, seemed to be one that, all things being equal, should have been quite straightforward. The bill amends the Policing Act 2008, the purpose being to remove the current restriction in the 2008 Act that does not allow police employees to stand in local body elections. If successful, the bill will enable all police employees to stand in local body elections without being placed on leave, and if they are elected, they will not have to resign from their jobs as police employees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWhen the M\u0101ori Party initially read this bill, we thought that it was fair enough that the police should be treated like any other employees and should qualify for the opportunity to stand in local body elections. But then two central concepts came into view: the current context and public perception. Today is hardly the best day to be considering the issue of public confidence in the New Zealand Police. Let me count the ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe first count is DNA samples. Firstly, in the heat of the debate generated by my colleague Hone Harawira\u2019s claims about the undue pressure brought to bear upon M\u0101ori youths to submit DNA samples to the police, criminal lawyer Graeme Newell also spoke up about these concerns, which he shares. Mr Harawira has supported a number of youths and their families to take the appropriate action by referring their complaints to the Independent Police Conduct Authority. The basis of the complaints is that those rangatahi, who are under the age of 17, have been persuaded by the police to submit DNA samples on the pretence that it might help to identify their relatives or would be stored on the off chance that they would be killed and would need to be identified. Mr Newell then came forward, saying that he knew of a case where a police officer had offered a boy a cigarette in return for a DNA sample. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe second count is police pursuits. The second issue to take the headlines in the last 24 hours was a meeting that the Minister of Police, Judith Collins, had with the Commissioner of Police, Howard Broad, to discuss police recommendations for vehicle pursuits after two separate reviews. The urgency of investigating the proper procedures around police pursuits came tragically into view through the death of Troy MacKay, a Christchurch man who died on Sunday when his car hit a tree after he was pursued by the police. New Zealand now has the unfortunate record of having lost seven lives\u2014people whose lives have gone through the course of their being pursued by the police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EOf course, one can never ignore the need for the police to intervene when it is evident that offending is taking place, whether that be on the road or in leaving a criminal scene. But when we are talking about a Government agency, we must be painstakingly clear that the protocols and policies that form the operational procedures are adhered to, rule by rule. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWe understand that two separate reviews have been undertaken into the situation. One is being undertaken by the Independent Police Conduct Authority and the other is an independent review conducted by the New Zealand Police. The reports have invited further questions about whether it is appropriate for the police to initiate high-speed chases for minor offences, such as speeding and property theft, or for the suspicion of criminal activity. We need to have that debate as we consider the right balance between the preservation of justice and the preservation of life. The nation has lost seven young men in as many months, of whom the youngest was 22 and the eldest was 38. Let not their lives be in vain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe third count is sexual misconduct. The final piece of evidence stacking the odds was yesterday\u2019s release by the Controller and Auditor-General of its second monitoring report on the recommendations made by the 2007 Commission of Inquiry into Police Conduct. The letter from Phillippa Smith, the Deputy Controller and Auditor-General, spelt out clearly why the police force must work hard to implement the cultural changes it suggests are critical after an inquiry was held into allegations of sexual misconduct by the police. The inquiry, we recall, was established after several allegations of sexual misconduct against police officers were made. The Auditor-General\u2019s report recommended that there be an extensive cultural change in the force. Ms Smith stated: \u201CThe benefits of change include the public having confidence in the integrity and conduct of the Police. Public confidence is essential for effective policing.\u201D But another worrying line in the release from the Auditor-General\u2019s office was the revelation that progress would stall unless a more concerted effort was put into making the recommendations work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EOne of the key recommendations from the report is that the police must, as an organisation, value and use external views on police culture and behaviour. This could be done, for example, by obtaining more feedback on police officers\u2019 behaviour and service delivery through community engagement, and by learning more from complaints information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EI believe that all those three areas of current controversy\u2014DNA samples, police pursuits, and sexual misconduct\u2014cannot be ignored when we come to this bill. But there is the broader context too of the longstanding history of police responsiveness to M\u0101ori. I acknowledge the absolute commitment that I know the police are making to improve their performance in this regard. We recognise the valuable role that almost 50 iwi, Pacific, and ethnic liaison officers in the police force play in helping to create purposeful relationship-building with iwi and M\u0101ori social service providers. We also acknowledge the quality of the police projects involving partnership with iwi and community agencies that are intended to specifically address M\u0101ori offending and victimisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EAlthough the gap between the perception and the reality has been reduced, we cannot forget that trust and confidence in the police is lower among M\u0101ori than it is among the general population. Countless reports have demonstrated that M\u0101ori feel alienated from the police and from criminal justice agencies. The research frequently concludes that a key reason for this lack of responsiveness is that often there is a perception that individuals within the police force lack knowledge of, and sensitivity to, M\u0101ori values, culture, history, and beliefs. I stress that we often talk about perception, but, as all politicians know only too well, perception is everything. When we come to this policing bill, we must be mindful of the impact of perception. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party has thought long and hard about this issue, and we have greatly appreciated the way in which the Minister of Police has responded to all of our queries about the effect of this bill. We fully understand that any police employees who decide to stand for local authority elections and those who are subsequently elected will still need to abide by any internal policies that the police may have in place. We also accept that such employees must abide by the code of conduct, which sets out that where employees participate in political matters in a personal capacity, they must not bring themselves into conflict with their primary role as police employees. That is all well and good on paper, but, when it comes down to the wire, we return to the impact of the current context and of public perception. Quite frankly, when we talk to our constituency, no matter how wonderful the local community cop may be, the perception of the police in general is adversely affected by longstanding views about the reputation of the police. Those views are not helped in any way by the events that I mentioned earlier on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EFinally, we were prepared as a party to support this bill\u2019s referral to a select committee, but because of the decision to take this bill through urgency, we will have to oppose the bill at every reading. We remain convinced that the issues of perception inherent in this bill must be put to the test of public opinion through the select committee process. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3f44fde67ef4f0aa48ee165e78e3ac2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3f44fde67ef4f0aa48ee165e78e3ac2\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise to speak to the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill. I will begin by declaring a certain fact: I like the police. I tremendously respect our men and women in blue for three reasons. Firstly, I was involved with the Asian advisory to the Auckland police. Secondly, I was a victim of a crime, and the police came to the aid of me and my family. Thirdly, I love the Minister of Police, and she does a tremendous job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EBut aside from those reasons, one needs certain standards to be a police officer \u2014there are standards. One needs to be a good citizen, over 18 years of age upon graduation from the police college, community-minded, fit, healthy, and bright enough to pass a range of assessments. I suppose police officers also need to be patient, because they are involved in highly charged, emotionally charged situations when they are arresting people. They must have excellent communication skills, and they have to be loyal, committed, and have high levels of integrity. In their role, they influence the lives of many people. So being able to make tough judgment calls as well as establishing strong personal relationships with the community networks that they have and confidence in the wider community is integral to the job they do. As well as responding to crime, police officers have to look at the bigger picture. Solving crime is about not just answering the question as to who did it but also why. This requires an ability to understand the community that they serve and, more important, the ability to identify and examine the problem that leads to crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003ESurely the skills that police officers possess are excellent skills for someone standing for a local authority. It seems ridiculous to me that at the moment police officers are unable to stand. Removing these restrictions can lead only to a better partnership between the police and local authorities. Furthermore, a more ridiculous thing is that some police officers are able to do it, yet some are not, depending on when they became local authority members. I support this bill and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022624f02992d4f467da280ee1f8dda900f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022624f02992d4f467da280ee1f8dda900f\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will take a moment to acknowledge our police force and the wonderful work that it does. Often it is a thankless job, and the manner in which policemen and policewomen undertake their work is admirable. Members on this side, and, I think, across the House would say that we all have respect for the police force. I will not go as far as the previous speaker, Melissa Lee, did in acknowledging the Minister of Police; I will leave it there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ECurrently, under the Policing Act 2008, if one is employed by the Police as a constable, authorised officer, or supervisor, one must take leave of absence if one intends to stand for election to a local authority or council. If successful, that person has to resign from the Police. The provisions of the 2008 Act clarify provisions in the previous Police Act that also prevented police officers from standing in local body elections, but that were never fully enacted. The reasoning behind the provisions was that it was perceived to be wrong to have the same people making and enforcing regional by-laws. The Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill, which we are currently debating, will remove that restriction. Policewomen and policemen will be able to stand for election to local authorities without taking a leave of absence, and, if successful, they will not have to resign from their police duties. That will put the police in the same position as other public servants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI think we need a little bit of background to the legislation that Labour put in place in 2008. Labour passed the Policing Act in 2008, and the restriction on police officers standing as councillors was subject to a lot of debate at that time. We believed then, and we still believe now, in having a full and transparent democratic process, so it is a little concerning that we are ramming this bill through the House under urgency with no select committee consideration. None the less, we will be supporting this bill. When we put through the 2008 legislation, we ensured that all the provisions would stop conflicts of interest from occurring. Police officers were not discriminated against; they could still be involved in local body politics, but at the time that meant standing for election only to a community board, because a police officer did not have the same perceived risk of a conflict of interest by sitting on a community board as by being a councillor. It was a difficult decision to make at the time, and there was a lot of discussion and debate. In the end, Labour decided to enact what the Police Act 1958 had originally intended. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThis Government must ensure that the perception of conflict of interest is safeguarded against. A councillor helping to pass a by-law and then enforcing that by-law in his or her role as a police officer will raise conflict of interest issues. However, that can be avoided relatively easily by having the councillor in question declaring his or her conflict of interest when the by-law is being debated in council. We have seen that occur with the five police officers who were councillors at the time that the 2008 legislation was passed. They were allowed to continue in that role, and, from what we have heard, there have been no complaints with regard to those five particular councillors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThis issue does not affect many people. At the time that the Policing Act 2008 came into force, as I said, only five police officers were serving as councillors across the whole country. Labour was careful to ensure that those five councillors were able to continue fulfilling both roles for as long as they were elected representatives. I acknowledge the work of those five councillors. Again I say that at no point have there been questions of undisclosed conflicts of interest with regard to those councillors. They have carried out their duties, as both police officers and councillors are expected to do, and they have done so admirably. My colleague George Hawkins was talking earlier about the example of one of those five councillors, Alf Filipaina, a Manukau City councillor. Clayton Cosgrove had another example from his area. I have to agree with both of those members, and especially with George Hawkins with regard to Alf Filipaina. He has always conducted himself with integrity. Without being politically biased, I say that he has fantastic politics, and he is a respected member of the community not only as a police officer but also as a councillor. I think that we need those types of people in both those roles, so we would not want to take that opportunity away from them. In so many ways, they are good examples of why we should support this legislation and of why we are supporting it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI spoke to Alf Filipaina about this particular bill, and discussed with him whether he has ever been accused of not declaring a conflict of interest, and he said: \u201CNot at all. That has never arisen.\u201D Although he was the chair of the transport committee, and issues could have arisen there, he was very careful to ensure that, whenever there was anything to do with by-laws and enforcement, he declared that conflict of interest and stepped back. There was transparency, and no one could question his integrity with regard to any involvement that he might have as the chair of the transport committee for the Manukau City Council. That seems to be the case across the board for the five councillors who are currently police officers as well as serving as councillors in their areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ELabour would have liked to see this bill go to a select committee, because we would have liked to hear the opinions of the public and of police officers. I know that this is a big concern for the Green Party, which is part of the reason why those members will not be supporting this legislation. It is also our concern that we will not get that opportunity because this bill is being passed under urgency. That is disappointing, but we recognise that the New Zealand Police Association and the New Zealand Police Managers Guild have been consulted in the development of this bill. As police officers seem to be largely in favour of removing the restrictions on becoming councillors, Labour will be supporting this bill based on that support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAs I said before, police officers regularly demonstrate their commitment to local communities. It is only fair that they get the opportunity, as all other public servants do, to further demonstrate that commitment by standing for election and by serving on local authorities. Most people who are in the position of being a councillor or a local body representative have other jobs, so many of them have declared interests, as well. Given that that is the case, and that a strong case has been put forward by the police with regard to why they should be allowed to do that, we think it is important to support the bill. There is no argument against this Government bill from this side of the House, for once, which is a very rare thing. We support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00225341dd81d48f46958946f303eb5c7d5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225341dd81d48f46958946f303eb5c7d5d\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to see that the Labour Party has been a little circumspect on the decision that it made some time ago and is now listening to Councillor Filipaina and the submissions that he has made. It is a shame that, despite his politics in the past, those members were not listening quite as well as they could have been and they did not take the opportunity to vote for a sterling amendment\u2014that being the submitted Supplementary Order Paper 213, which would have allowed police officers to continue in that role at the time. However, it is great that those members have now come to that position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to note around the House the number of members who, just from my knowledge, have connections with the police. Of course, we have the Minister of Police here, who is the wife of a former policeman. We have the daughter of a policeman sitting over there\u2014Jacinda Ardern\u2014and a former Minister of Police, the Hon George Hawkins, also sitting there. We have the sister of two policemen sitting over here\u2014Rahui Katene from the M\u0101ori Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI think it is great to be able to acknowledge that people within the police bring a lot to the table, just as each of us individually as members of Parliament brings something of our experience to the table in this House, which contributes to a discussion and brings a different take on life. This is also the case in respect of the council table. The policemen who serve on local authorities around the country are up and about at 2 o\u2019clock in the morning, and they see the responsibilities of local people and the issues that they have to discuss around that council table. They have a different view from other people who, quite rightly, bring other experience to that table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI am pleased to see that we pretty much have across-the-board support for the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill. I have never ever in my short time in Parliament seen the Greens support one pro-police bit of legislation in this House, and I am sure as hell not surprised that they are not supporting this bill. But I am pleased that the rest of us are. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002284e344b0917240bbb07b93c0d178a293\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284e344b0917240bbb07b93c0d178a293\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to rise to take a call on the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill. Obviously I was not a member of this House at the time that the Policing Act was passed, but I do remember the work that went into that piece of legislation, because for a time I worked in the United Kingdom on a review of the way the police worked over there. There was a lot of interest in the collaborative and comprehensive way in which the Policing Act 2008 was drawn up. So I congratulate those who worked on that original legislation on the work that went into it. It was noticed internationally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI think it might be useful to provide a little more context on the original decision not to allow police officers to stand as councillors and on the position that the Labour Party took at that time. I think that looking at some of the statements that were made at that time demonstrates that the decision was very difficult to make, and that there were very strong arguments on both sides of the case. I think one of my colleagues has already mentioned that the New Zealand First MP Ron Mark took a very strong view on this issue and was quite a vocal campaigner for restrictions being put in place. Initially Labour disagreed with the position that he, in particular, had made, but later in the piece, in the Committee stage, we made the change via Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI want to reflect on the statement that was made by Annette King at the time in August 2008. She said: \u201CWhen I introduced a policing bill in my name I raised this as an issue that was worthy of debate. The bill as introduced retained the status quo, but I did set out that it was an issue on which we would like to have some debate and some comment in terms of submissions. My understanding is that the Law and Order Committee heard a number of submissions\u2014in fact, there was quite a large number of submissions\u2014on this part. In terms of where we should sit in relation to this matter, it was the Labour caucus view that the status quo would remain. However, on looking further at the issue and on taking consideration of the advice of the Legislation Advisory Committee, which was asked by the invitation of the select committee to present to the select committee on this issue, the caucus was considerably swayed by its view that we ought not to muddy the waters of political neutrality in our police service.\u201D She went on to say that it had been a hard issue for the caucus to decide on, and she knew that other parties in this Chamber looked long and hard at it. I think her comments demonstrate that the decision was very difficult to make. They demonstrate the fact that it was midway through that process that Labour made this amendment originally and that it was made on the advice of the Legislation Advisory Committee\u2014a committee of the House. I think it is fair to say that it was a line call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAfter not only the benefit of hindsight but also taking a further look at the fact that there are already police officers who serve as counsellors, we had evidence to suggest that currently it has not proved to be a problem, and that, perhaps, we should reverse the decision that was made in 2008. But I do think that we should always be mindful of the original reasons that it was first put in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI know one of the most important principles of policing and community policing in particular\u2014which is something I am very interested in\u2014is not only the principle of constabulary independence but also that the police really earn their right to police from their communities and with the trust and confidence of their communities. It is up to us in central government to ensure that we create the foundations and the framework for that to happen. At the second tier, it is up to the police to make sure that on the front line that trust and confidence is earned and maintained. So I do think central government has a key role to play in that regard. I think that probably the best interest of the police was top in Labour\u2019s mind when it made this decision, but on balance we are comfortable with the notion of moving back to the status quo. That is why we are supporting this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIt is always pleasing from time to time to have the opportunity to support a bill that is put up by the Government, and to demonstrate that there is support. We get criticism that sometimes we do not agree with the Government. I always point out that it is because the Government gives us so little opportunity to agree. For an example of that, I need only look back to the last bill that came through on law and order, the \u201Cthree strikes and you\u2019re out\u201D legislation, which was one of the most awful pieces of legislation I have had the unfortunate chance to observe in this House. That was the last piece of legislation put forward by the Law and Order Committee, but, of course, we were not going to agree on it. [Interruption] I hear considerable disappointment from the Government benches that I have swayed away from my conciliatory statements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI will dwell a little further on the fact that I think it was Clayton Cosgrove who pointed out the interesting history behind that legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221bccb26c66f49f098d8e64f4d6d986e\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: It paid for that suit he\u2019s wearing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220854494f71b243d5b18a475d7a0b3c7f\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Clayton Cosgrove pointed out\u2014I think there was a comment made on his suit\u2014the fact that the Police Act of 1958 originally mooted this change and that it was not fully enacted. So in actually enacting it, Labour in 2008 put in place something that was considered 50 years prior, which I think is an interesting point. Also, when this restriction was put in place, Labour put in an exemption providing that the police could still sit on community boards. I think that is quite an interesting point because it demonstrates the perception that community boards have a different standing than a local council, and that important difference is based on the fact that community boards do not have powers to make by-laws. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWhen I read that, it triggered my thoughts back to the local boards that the Government has put in place through the super-city legislation. Local boards have no powers to make by-laws either, even though they will probably be the most important element of the super-city legislation, because that is where local people will have their say. So technically we would not have to make this change for Auckland. Police would be able to stand under this legislation and the exemption for a local board under the super-city legislation, because the local boards have no powers to make by-laws. I thought it was an interesting point that was worth raising. Perhaps as a side point it demonstrates again how toothless those local boards are. But, by the by, I will not dwell on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E One of the other issues that has been raised\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efd338f026e24ac089db766c964834d1\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: Go on, don\u2019t disappoint us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258f0f05f82804d258b5ab41b090250cc\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: If Sandra Goudie would like me to expand on the point further, I am most happy to. I am very disappointed that, as chair of the Law and Order Committee, she will not have the opportunity to look deeper into this legislation. I know she would have provided considerable insight into what we are discussing here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EOne further and final issue I raise, which I think is a valid point, is that it is important to make sure that police officers who are councillors are protected from conflicts of interest. For instance, there may be issues where they have powers to make by-laws that they may have some future enforcement over. That is a point to carefully consider. We have made it work today, and I believe we can make it work in the future. But one area that may lend itself to further thought is the proposals that have been put up by Lianne Dalziel on the Sale of Liquor Act, which includes the ability for local boards to make by-laws to restrict alcohol sale.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1dd199d44504732803df6a2b964aa99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1dd199d44504732803df6a2b964aa99\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise and speak on the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill. Prior to the last election, National promised to remove restrictions on police officers standing as candidates in local authority elections and serving as members. We have a proud record of keeping our promises, and this is yet another promise kept. The New Zealand Police Association and the New Zealand Police Managers Guild support the removal of restrictions, as does Local Government New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EWe have heard Opposition members talk at some length about how sad they were that this bill did not go through the select committee process. I understand that in 2008 when the Policing Bill was considered there were only two submissions against this course of action. Police are respected members of our communities. They are doing a sterling job throughout all New Zealand, particularly in Manurewa where I am privileged to be based. This Government has backed the police with a quiver of new tools to help them in keeping our communities secure and has added to their numbers. We promised 300 more police in Counties-Manukau by the end of this year, and already 240 more uniformed officers have been deployed in that area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EAs respected members of our communities, it is only fair and right that police officers be allowed to serve in local government, should they so wish. I am thinking now of police sergeant Mike Bailey, whom I met in the watchtower in Counties-Manukau at about 3 o\u2019clock in the morning, when I went out with an incident car overnight in that area. It became clear to me shortly afterwards that he was not only a hard-working police sergeant but also the chairman of the Manurewa Community Board. It is totally appropriate that men and women of such skill, application, and passion be able to contribute further to the safety and well-being of our communities by building on the existing strong relationships between the police, their organisation, and many community groups. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EIt is pleasing to note that this bill is now enjoying wide support across the House. It is reasonable at this stage to ask how useful the previous legislation was. Well, thinking of the Football World Cup in South Africa, it was as useful as a vuvuzela to a Trappist monk, or as useful as a dead monkey to an organ-grinder. This legislation was of no use, and it is wonderful to see that across the House this has been realised by all parties. With the singular exception of the Greens\u2014who I understand have yet to support any motion concerned with law and order\u2014we have unanimous support for this bill in the House. This bill removes an injustice to serving police officers, and allows our communities to benefit from their passion and expertise\u2014the passion and expertise of a highly trained group of men and women. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002240c8dccf59f748e393ec676ac304bd9d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 103\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227ebb4fed93f746d09da0532a14504a73\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002263e34e90afe942d090dec67d8ca06ba8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263e34e90afe942d090dec67d8ca06ba8\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. I take this opportunity to thank the parties who have agreed to support this bill. Their support will ensure that the bill is passed in time for this year\u2019s local government elections. In the short term, the bill will give certainty to those police staff who intend to stand for the elections later this year, and it will give them time to plan for their campaign. Longer term, it will give assurance to all police staff that there are no legal restrictions to their right to stand for local councils in any future elections. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI think I can safely say that we as a society have high expectations of the way our police conduct themselves not only in the line of duty\u2014that is, performed in public view\u2014but also, to an extent, in their personal lives. But this does not mean that we should take private or democratic rights away from those who choose to take the constable\u2019s oath or make a career serving the police. The police have had various staff serve on local councils for decades without issue. The potential for conflicts of interest, whether actual or perceived, can be managed so that they do not arise. At the end of the day, if a local community is not happy with the way their councillor has performed, they will simply not elect them again. The bill will ensure that when it comes to standing for local councils, nothing in legislation prevents police staff enjoying the same rights as other State servants. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb967b7b99574d8a969863f8caa8a623\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb967b7b99574d8a969863f8caa8a623\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker Barker. I know that you have been in the gym so the delay in calling me may be because your eyesight was affected by the amount of weights you were lifting. You are known, I am told, as a fit person; others dispute that, but I am sure it is the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI briefly reiterate what I said in the first reading, touching on one point. We will support the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill. As I say, the issue arose out of a coalition partner who was zealous in his approach to wanting police not to participate in elections. I note in passing that a certain number of public servants are not permitted to participate in elections. This is enforced not by legislation but, I am told, by their own internal law, if you will. For instance, the military to a certain level, I am told, are not permitted to stand for election to this Parliament, and that is by their own arrangements within military law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI address one issue that I think was raised by Metiria Turei in the first reading, and that is the issue of conflict of interest. I had a chance to have a chat to a colleague opposite who has been a member of the constabulary to check the history on this issue, and neither of us could remember a time when a conflict of interest had arisen. Metiria Turei raised the issue that a conflict of interest could arise where a police officer in a dual role\u2014as an elected councillor, community board member, or local authority member and as a member of the constabulary\u2014could not manage that issue. She suggested there could be some sort of great constitutional issue of moment. I have to say, from having police officer Robbie Brine as a councillor on the Waimakariri District Council, that I cannot recall that situation taking place. My colleague across the aisle, having been a serving police officer, cannot recall either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI think, as with all elected roles\u2014even members of Parliament from time to time, whether it be Cabinet Ministers or members of select committees\u2014conflicts of interest arise. There is a simple way to deal with them, and that is that there are rules in this place, and there are rules under the Local Government Act. There are also sanctions that can be imposed by the Auditor-General; we saw the Auditor-General give Environment Canterbury in my own area of Canterbury some scrutiny over a number of perceived or otherwise alleged conflicts of interest by non-serving police\u2014ordinary folk, that is\u2014who still trod that fine line in respect of a conflict of interest. That was dealt with by the Auditor-General. So there are safeguards on that side, and equally\u2014again, taking some counsel from my colleague across the aisle, a former serving police officer\u2014I would wager that there would be a great deal of interest taken by the hierarchy from the Commissioner of Police down if a serving police officer was to cross the line or in any way compromise the department or his or her own standing in the way by which that officer approached the decision-making process in a local authority. I argue that serving police officers who are elected\u2014and, in general, 99.9 percent of folks who are in elected office\u2014know when they have to withdraw from a process, and when they have to leave the room or declare an interest. These things can be managed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI disagree with our Green colleagues that somehow the world as we know it will end, the veil will fall, the constitution will be torn asunder, as it were, and there will be a great series of injustices put forward because serving police officers are enabled to stand in local body elections. It is right to raise the issue and I accept that. I am sure there will be one or two letters to the editor, and one or two in the community who will have a go from time to time at serving police officers who have the dual role, but there are enough safeguards on both sides\u2014both on the blue uniform side and within the elected local body\u2014through legislation and the Auditor-General to ensure that people can have the confidence that those issues will be dealt with. Such people will be dealt with in the same way, if you like, as business people who serve on local authorities and may have an interest in property. When local authorities are making decisions on zoning arrangements, irrigation issues, or whatever decisions local authorities make, those business people too have an obligation to ensure that those conflicts of interest are declared and appropriate measures taken so there is transparency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI, like the Minister of Police, commend the bill to the House. I will not go as far as her colleague Melissa Lee, who expressed her love and admiration for the Minister, but I am advised there is a lot to love. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u0022add88ae9340e45c7b414aca94fbbb1c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022add88ae9340e45c7b414aca94fbbb1c8\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party opposes the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill, just as we supported the provision that was put in the Policing Act a year or two back with the support of New Zealand First and Labour, and I am not sure who else. We supported the exclusion of police from serving on local bodies, and I think there was a good reason at the time. The reasons were well outlined not only by the Greens but by Ron Mark; I think the previous speaker referred indirectly to him. Ron Mark of New Zealand First was very keen on that legislation. The Police Association was at that point, and I think still is, quite strongly against the exclusion of police officers and is quite in favour of the current bill. So the lines are pretty much the same. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI think that essentially we have to have a clear separation of powers between the legislators\u2014and that includes the local body legislators\u2014the judiciary, and the police as the implementers of the law. I do not think too many sitting judges have run for Parliament or local bodies and served on them. I think they see that they are bringing down decisions on cases of all sorts of citizens who come before them and that they should not confuse that role with being in charge of bringing in laws or by-laws as either parliamentarians or local body councillors. I think the police, as the people who implement the law day to day, have to be removed from any suspicion that they may be acting in a partisan or political way. That is the particular reason for serving police officers to be excluded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIt is not, like Clayton Cosgrove said, just like other conflict of interest situations. Police officers are potentially in a conflict of interest every day they are on duty, because during policing they could come across any other citizen, including people who voted for them, their colleagues on the local body, etc. In some ways the provision that was put in the original law, which we supported, was put in also to protect the police themselves from any suspicion. If, for example, they told a car that was speeding down the road, did not have its registration, or was parked in the wrong place to stop, and the driver happened to be some political antagonist, another councillor, or the wife or husband of a councillor, there would be no suspicion that the police were acting in a partisan, political manner. In most cases they would not be, but the suspicion might be that that police officer who is a serving councillor is out to get this other officer who is also a sitting councillor. I think that provision avoided that situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIn no way is this a criticism of officers who have served on councils. I know that when the original bill came up I had a chat to Alf Filipaina, whom I know well. He is a serving officer who was on the Manukau City Council. He is a great chap and a great community constable, and has done tremendous things. If we look just at him and how he has managed the situation, we might say there is a bit of an argument to not stop him doing both jobs. But if we look at it at a deeper level, and in terms of wanting to remove the conflicts of interest, then we should not allow that situation to take place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThere was reference to the military before and how the military by their own internal system do not allow people to run for office, and I think there is a good reason for that. But if it is good enough for the military, there is even more reason for the police to do so. The military are not dealing with people day to day on the streets, and are less likely to be in a conflict of interest situation than the police are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIf we add it all up we see that it is important to keep that separation of powers among the judiciary, the police, and the legislators, and not to confuse the roles. For that reason the Green Party is opposing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d8f62a345c58414c8b10eef8d4a78531\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 14\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002208d5eb9afa7e40fe8657d1b7f17c5ed4\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u00222ae8b916dba84792b68b180c4f5e96b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ae8b916dba84792b68b180c4f5e96b8\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the debate on the Committee stage of the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill to be taken as one wide-ranging debate with unlimited speaking slots.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ad6d401dff54506a1b3b307f67d4f1e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2c915cf39014384979f7276b172e475\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022de514b0a4409469c91211db275231062\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de514b0a4409469c91211db275231062\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I take just a short call to reiterate Labour\u2019s support for the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill, mindful that local body elections are upon us very soon. I note in passing that an expedited select committee process may well have been profitable in that it may well have put to bed some of the myths and legends that a Green member has talked about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn touching on the conflict of interest issue, I think there is a need to deal with evidence. Given that the Policing Act has been around in some form since 1958, and given that members of the constabulary force have been elected as local body officials at least since then, and possibly prior to that, if there had been stark examples of conflict of interest, if there had been a threat to the constitution, if there had been a threat to Parliament, or if there had been insurrection or otherwise, I suspect we would have examples of that. Neither Mr Borrows, a past serving police officer, nor I in in-depth talks could dredge our memories back to a time when there had been; neither could Mr Hawkins, or other colleagues I consulted. The Minister of Police has not touched on any examples, so I assume there are none out there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThere is a difference\u2014a very big, historic, constitutional difference that is held amongst most, if not all, Commonwealth countries\u2014between current military serving officers seeking elected office at a parliamentary level, and those in the constabulary seeking to be members of community boards, for goodness\u2019 sake, regional councils, health boards, latterly, or district and local authorities. There are safeguards in place, whether they be from the Auditor-General or the Local Government Act on the elections side. In a practical sense, if a police officer was to go a bit troppo and do something unusual in his or her role as an elected local authority member, I suspect\u2014and the Minister may want to contradict me or she may want to agree with me\u2014that the Commissioner of Police would come down on that officer like a ton of bricks, because the police hold dear the sanctity of the nature of policing and its independence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI can provide as evidence of that the example of my own serving councillor, Constable Brine, who, as Mr Locke said, is required every day in part to administer and enforce local body by-laws and regulations. Some may dispute it, but I believe that Councillor Brine has shown incredible integrity in the way that he has acted both as a councillor\u2014and I am not endorsing anybody; that would not be appropriate\u2014and as a member of the constabulary force.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E There is general agreement in the debate that we have to become a little rational. If there is evidence to substantiate the fears that Mr Locke has, it is appropriate we deal with it in the debate. In my brief researching of history, I cannot note an example where serving police officers who are elected officials have abused their position and put the department, themselves, or the local authority in a position of embarrassment or worse. As such, I think this legislation is appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EAs I have said, the current restrictions were born out of the zealotry of one former member of Parliament, Mr Mark, who, for whatever reason, felt it was very, very inappropriate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e153d290d92d4a1eabe1689a2fa115ca\u0022\u003EHon George Hawkins\u003C/span\u003E: Utu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b0f9cd76a6246cdbbce5881dba5d395\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I could not comment on that. Mr Mark felt, in a zealot-like way, that it was inappropriate for police officers to serve as local councillors. For whatever reason, those restrictions were a coalition demand, and that is the nature of being in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to Mr Locke that he has raised points that are legitimate to debate, but if he has examples, evidence, or facts to lay before the House as an illustration of what he claims may happen and of the fears he claims may manifest in the future, it is right that this Committee examine them, debate them, talk them through, and propose alternatives. If they do not exist, we should get on and pass this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022426c69ca4039442e9257d5935aeb3717\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022426c69ca4039442e9257d5935aeb3717\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to support the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill. I want to talk about some of the aspects of the bill that Labour members are supportive of, and to provide a little bit of history with regard to why restrictions on our police officers being able to stand for council were enforced in the first place. It was not an easy decision at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAs most of the Committee should know, a New Zealand First MP, Ron Mark, was a vocal campaigner for these restrictions to be introduced. Initially the Labour Government was not supportive, but at the Committee stage of the Policing Act the Labour Government put forward a Supplementary Order Paper to ensure that in the future police officers would not be able to also be councillors. However, those already fulfilling the dual roles could continue to do so. We have heard a lot of discussion about the five police officers who have continued in their roles as councillors, and we have heard that they do so without any problems at all. There was concern\u2014and this is why the restrictions were brought in to begin with\u2014that there would be a conflict of interest for those police officers with regard to their having to enforce by-laws, but the five particular councillors who are also police officers have been very careful to declare any conflict of interest that arises over their time as councillors. That serves as a good example that it can work, that the police can fulfil those two roles without any problems occurring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EOne councillor I know of who has done it very well is Alf Filipaina, a Manukau City councillor and police officer. He is respected by the community, he has huge integrity, and he has done a fantastic job. Even prior to the restrictions being brought in, in 2008, he was very careful to make sure he declared any conflict of interest when it came to enforcing by-laws. He has a good track record. Since the passing of that legislation there has not been any problem with the five councillors, and that is a big part of why Labour members are supporting this bill. We have seen that the police are able to conduct themselves in a professional manner with regard to fulfilling the two roles. That is part of the reason that we are supportive of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIdeally, in our minds it would have been better if the bill were not being rammed through in urgency. It would have been good to get the views of the public, of the police, and of anyone who had concerns or was particularly happy about the bill being passed. Unfortunately, we will not have the opportunity to do that, because the bill is going through the House in urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ELabour is supporting the bill. It takes off those restrictions and allows the police to hold both positions. Regardless of the fact that they are police officers, they will be able to stand as councillors. It seems only fair, given the examples I discussed before and given that other public servants are provided with the opportunity to run for council despite their role as public servants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI want to take the time to acknowledge the police force and the outstanding work they do. I think all of us across the Chamber share that view. Without these restrictions, they will be able not only to fulfil their role as police officers well but also to perform an outstanding role as councillors. That is why we are supportive of the bill. There are some significant barriers that the Government will need to overcome in order to make it work without a perception of conflict of interest, and that will be one of the challenges the Government needs to face. For example, a councillor helping to pass a by-law, then policing that by-law in his or her role as a police officer, could raise a conflict of interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI will end my call there, but only because I have a cold. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u002296c19113de4043bea5c8aef82ed2410b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296c19113de4043bea5c8aef82ed2410b\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I think the previous two contributions were very useful, and I agree that the five existing police officers who are also councillors\u2014and I only really know of Alf Filipaina\u2014appear to have conducted themselves with honour and in the correct manner. But when we write legislation in this Parliament, we are not writing it for the better people in society\u2014the ones who are well motivated and have good morality and everything else\u2014we are writing legislation to cover situations where people are not so well motivated, and might act in self-interest or meanness or get involved, if they are on a local body, in political fights. They might act in a way through their other role\u2014in this case, that of a police officer\u2014that is not in accord with best practice. I do not think we can just think that in the future everyone will be angels and everything will be great. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWe have to look at the background of local body politics. Watching local body politics in Auckland, in particular, in the last few years, we have seen quite a bit of not only political conflict but also personal conflict. People have been getting quite nasty to each other, including in Manukau City\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217b9b5d082f741579121fd4f04990f1b\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t have to be in the police for that to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249164eb113014cc89f6627e20197bfae\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yes\u2014and in North Shore City. I have seen quite a few personal clashes mixed up with political clashes of late. Therein lies the problem: it is not necessarily true that police officers who cover both positions will act in a bad way, but they can be perceived as acting in a bad way if they are involved in these conflicts in their local bodies. They can be put in a very tricky position if they happen to stop a car, for example, that is driven by the son of one of their antagonists on the local body. What will they do in that situation? They will be caught in a bind. If they proceed with the ticketing, they could get it back from the faction in the council that they disagree with, who might say they did it because they were trying to get at the family. If they go the other way and say that they do not want a fight, so they will not write out a ticket, they get it from the police, saying that they are not acting in a politically neutral way. So it is very difficult for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThere is also a question of a conflict of interest when bringing in by-laws. Alf Filipaina has stood aside when his council is making decisions on particular by-laws, in order to remove a conflict of interest. That is often difficult where there is a very factional situation on a council, such as there may be soon in the Auckland Council, where two camps are developing in the electoral campaign. They might end up very finely balanced, with just one vote between them. If all of a sudden a person in one camp happens to be a police officer and has to absent himself or herself from the vote, it changes the whole balance of power on the council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EA whole lot of problems can arise through having a potential conflict of interest, and the easiest way to overcome it is to retain the original law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022af61db15725c4fe7bf943b35dec03a25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af61db15725c4fe7bf943b35dec03a25\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Some very good points have been raised in the debate on the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill, and I think it is beholden on me to answer some of those questions. With police employees now being able to stand for local authority elections, obviously there will have to be some changes made to the internal policies of the police to deal with that. Some of the things that may need to be reviewed include some aspects of the Police\u2019s code of conduct. I will read to the Committee a couple of those points. The first is a provision that states: \u201CWhere employees do participate in political matters in a personal capacity, they do not bring themselves into conflict with their primary role as Police employees.\u201D That is already part of the code of conduct. Another provision states that employees should remain politically neutral in all of their dealings in the workplace. Some comments have been made about a particular Manukau City Councillor, Alf Filipaina, who is known to many of us, particularly in the Manukau region. I cannot think of one instance when his political situation on the council has had anything to do with his policing, other than that he has probably brought a lot of his knowledge from policing to his role on the council. Certainly he is not standing for the National Party last time I checked. As Minister of Police I have had plenty of dealings with Alf and have never had any worry at all about his ability to do his role professionally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe Police manual that sets out police policies and procedures will also need to be reviewed. There are obviously some issues relating to the internal policies to make sure that any conflicts of interest are managed. There have been some issues raised about the potential conflict of interest and how terrible this would be, and of course it would be terrible if it ever eventuated. In fact, the affected police officer could end up in an employment situation that also involves his or her elected situation, but so do lots of other councillors. For instance, as a lawyer I can think of a time when a lawyer who may be acting for developers might be elected to a council. Should that person be precluded from election to the council because it may be making decisions about development? The fact is that the lawyer has to point out that he or she is in a potential conflict of interest situation and exit the decision-making process. That is the sort of thing police officers can and already do when they serve on councils. They are aware that they are in potential conflict of interest situations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThere might be some situations, for instance, when they would not be involved in the approving of some by-laws, such as liquor licensing, noise control, determining zones in which brothels can and cannot operate, and the removal of gang fortifications. Those are all issues that involve enforcement by police. Obviously they are probably better not to be part of that decision-making process. Those are not potential conflicts that cannot be managed; they can be managed by people who are sensible, and those people are sensible by virtue of the fact that they have been serving police officers and elected by their communities. If they are not aware of that, then like anybody else who has a potential conflict of interest they must take the consequences if they do not heed it. It is the same way for any member of Parliament. I do not think we should have a situation where we preclude police officers by law\u2014not through their employment situation but by law, making them the only people we preclude. That is a ridiculous situation, and that is why I am very pleased with the support we have had from other parties in the Committee to get this bill through in urgency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons we are debating it in urgency is because those officers need to be able to plan a campaign. They need to be able to make decisions and talk to their families and employers. The New Zealand Police also needs to be sure it gets its own code of conduct in line with this law change. We do not want police officers being precluded from being able to stand because they have taken their constabulary oath or are in a senior position. I support this bill, obviously, but I am also very aware of the fact that it is righting a wrong that was done, let us say, in a mean spirit. I think many of us here in the Chamber accept that a mean spirit was pervading at the time the change took place. Democracy is not just for everyone else in the world; it is also for New Zealand police officers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cda8cc75cac94286bf076763011640fe\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clauses 1 to 5 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 14\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 5 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000830\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000831\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c00995638e9c4ce784b000e72b784881\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00229b8858b94d2e47ff9e6699ac039cb88b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b8858b94d2e47ff9e6699ac039cb88b\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. I take another opportunity to thank those members who have constructively supported this amendment bill, and to thank the whole House for the way it has allowed this debate to be conducted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThis Government is committed to supporting our police and their rights as private citizens in a democracy. The bill achieves this objective when it comes to police employees standing for local councils by putting all police staff on a level playing field with other State servants. The bill is a small amendment to the Policing Act 2008, but as it will help strengthen the strong ties that police have with their local councils, the bill is important for all local communities throughout the country. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u00220ed97ea065e3412bb5db5a460f5a6357\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ed97ea065e3412bb5db5a460f5a6357\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party will continue to oppose the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill for the reasons we have outlined. It is with a certain degree of sadness; I think that we would like a democracy where everybody, including judges, the military, and the police, could contest every position. But there is a case for the separation of powers with national and local legislatures, as it were, being separated off from people who either stand in judgment over the law like judges, the people who enforce the law like the police, or the people who are in a particular position as potential enforcement agencies both domestically and internationally like the military. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI am pleased with the way the debate has been conducted since I have been here. I think that it has brought out the useful points. I think\u2014and I support Carmel Sepuloni on this\u2014that it would have been good to have had a select committee consideration, particularly so that the advice of some of the finest legal minds, like those of the Law Society, could have been brought to bear. The question of separation of powers and of not having a conflict of interest is something that perhaps bigger legal minds than mine could exercise their brains on. I was a little disturbed that there was a comment, which might be referring back to Mr Ron Mark, who was a New Zealand First MP in the previous Parliament, that somehow his bill was a result of his having a bit of meanness, a personal agenda, or something like that. As I recall, his comments at the time, both formal in the House and informal, were that he was genuinely exercised by the political arguments for this. He did that very vigorously, and I think he had good reasons for going down that track. So I am standing up for him to an extent in this Parliament today and saying that there are real arguments for being against this legislation. I think that Ron led the way on them in the last Parliament. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00227f1019fb86b74c0e9ff11e800149ec35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f1019fb86b74c0e9ff11e800149ec35\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a brief call on the third reading of the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill, and to endorse the bill. I will address a couple of points that the member Keith Locke has made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI make the point again that if there is a fear in respect of the future, maybe we should look at the past and look at fact, evidence, and example. It is right that the member Mr Locke raises these issues, but I note for the record that in the debate not one example or one piece of evidence has been put forward to show that a serving police officer elected to a local authority has compromised his or her position, or that of the department or local authority. I think we should be mindful in this place\u2014to be honest, I suspect that often we are not, on certain occasions\u2014that when we make these decisions, we should deal with evidence and example. I say to Mr Locke that it is right that he raises the issue, but I also say to my colleague that he should live in hope\u2014live in hope. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI suspect that for the people who are serving as both constabulary staff and in local authorities, the counterfactual we have is stark, real, and lively examples of where those five officers have acted absolutely appropriately, as far as I am aware, in all circumstances in their dual roles. So if we are after evidence to back up our argument, then that evidence stands before us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI note with interest that the M\u0101ori Party is opposing this bill. I will not deal with the notions that its members have put forward. Suffice it to say that I, my Labour colleagues, and others completely distance ourselves from the language and the venom that was visited upon the New Zealand Police by Mr Harawira\u2014the language and venom. Again, I say to Mr Harawira, who has chosen not to take a call, that if there is example, evidence, case, or allegation he should bring it forward. He should not stand on the sidelines and throw horrific slogans and language at serving police officers, members of the Public Service, and others. Those slogans and language are deeply offensive to all members of our community because of historical events. We distance ourselves, as my colleagues have, from those offensive remarks. If that is the basis for opposing this bill, then I invite Mr Harawira and the M\u0101ori Party to look very carefully at the statements he has made. He is a member of the M\u0101ori Party, so those statements appear to be representative of the party itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI commend the bill to the House. I commend the members of the police force serving on local bodies. One in my area, Councillor Brine, has that dual role. They tread a very difficult path from time to time in managing those inherent conflicts in relation to by-laws and various things, but as other speakers have said, lawyers, property developers, business people, and\u2014I would wager\u2014the odd publican who have stood for and gained elected office have also had to tread that path of managing conflicts of interest, as do all elected folk, including us in this Chamber. There are processes, safeguards, and mechanisms like the Local Government Act, the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General, and the Commissioner of Police\u2019s office. They can and are willing to deal with those conflicts in order to ensure there is transparency and integrity in that democratic process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMy plea to Mr Locke on these occasions is that when he is making statements we should deal with facts and evidence, not hyperbole and hypothesis. Let us deal with the facts and the evidence. The truth is that since 1958\u2014and I beg for someone to provide evidence to the contrary\u2014serving officers who have been elected officials have acted appropriately, and have not crossed the line that Mr Locke fears they will. I, along with colleagues, commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227b90dbfc92a64b2195f95a9867b97b67\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Policing (Involvement in Local Authority Elections) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 14\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e5f7f4404c63403c959ec0faa2afa5e3\u0022\u003EPrisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226cb3812cdbb149339a6628a7957649da\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022 data-id=\u002219dbb80a430945acaf49b32528a16454\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219dbb80a430945acaf49b32528a16454\u0022\u003EHon PANSY WONG (Minister for Ethnic Affairs)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: I move, That the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. In effect, this bill extends the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005 for 2 more years, following the current expiration date of 30 June 2010. The bill ensures that the current restrictions on prisoners\u2019 claims are retained, and that prisoners are awarded compensation only if no other remedy is appropriate. It also ensures that the victims of those prisoners awarded compensation continue to have priority to claim against that compensation. In addition, the bill clarifies a potential ambiguity in one of the Act\u2019s provisions. The bill makes it absolutely clear that the victims\u2019 claims process applies to compensation payable for claims made by prisoners before 1 July 2012.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EI thank the Justice and Electoral Committee for its consideration of the bill in the short amount of time available. The committee received six submissions on the bill and has recommended that it proceed without amendment. That is not surprising, as this bill simply maintains the status quo for a further 2 years and ensures that the application of the victims\u2019 claim process is clear. The effect is a transition period that gives prisoners, particularly those with historic grievances, 2 more years to make their claims before a second bill, which the Minister of Justice intends to introduce before the end of this year, takes effect. That legislation will mean that if compensation is awarded to a prisoner, then anything remaining after the prisoner\u2019s victims have sought redress will be redirected to the broader victims\u2019 services appropriation. The victims\u2019 services appropriation is currently holding the revenue generated by the Government\u2019s offender levy initiative and the funding from the disestablished Criminal Justice Advisory Board and the Sentencing Council. That money is already being put to good use by funding five new or enhanced entitlements for victims of serious crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EFrom 1 July 2010 three more initiatives will be rolled out. A new court support service for victims of sexual violence will be introduced, as well as an enhanced homicide support service. More comprehensive information resources for victims of crime will also be available from July. This will provide a guide to the criminal justice system and explain the support that victims and their families can get.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe bill before us and the new legislation to come will not prevent prisoners from seeking to uphold their rights through the courts; nor should it. Agencies responsible for wrongdoing will still be held to account and required to pay compensation where a sufficiently serious breach of a prisoner\u2019s rights has occurred. That is appropriate, because prisoner mistreatment should not be tolerated. However, I make no apology for ensuring that where compensation is necessary, victims of that prisoner have every opportunity to benefit from that compensation and seek redress for the harms committed against them. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002268c8f65ee7164bf19903a50a0b3904b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268c8f65ee7164bf19903a50a0b3904b3\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Opposition will be supporting the extension set out in the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill. It is a technical amendment. Why are we supporting it? Quite clearly, we are supporting it because we in 2005 put in place the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act whilst in Government. This is Labour Government legislation that the current Government is seeking to extend for 2 years, from 1 July until 30 June 2012. So on the basis of an extension of the legislation that the previous Labour Government passed, of course we would support this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThis bill is designed to assist victims. The aim, of course, is to extend those restrictions in awarding compensation to prisoners for a further 2 years, as I have said, so that the victims\u2019 claims process also applies to compensation awarded in, or to be paid pursuant to, an out-of-court final settlement in respect of a prisoner\u2019s claim made on or after 1 July 2010 but before 1 July 2012. So, in essence, this amending legislation bridges a gap. Labour agrees with this. We wrote this legislation\u2014that is, the primary Act\u2014and we agree with its extension, but I would make a couple of points in passing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThis Government has made many lofty claims in respect of assisting victims. I suspect that we, putting aside our political prejudices, all support that ethos of supporting victims who have been subject to either heinous crime at the horrific, tragic end of the scale or even so-called minor crime, smaller incidences, at the other end of the scale. But I make this point. If this Government was serious about assisting victims, this legislation would be followed by legislation that does away with what is happening with accident compensation whereby sexual abuse victims are no longer able to get the support they need thanks to the changes made to our accident compensation system by this National Government. This issue is germane to this legislation, because we are talking about victims of crime. That member over there might have a bit of a peck, as she is wont to do, but this is the truth, and I challenge this Government. If this Government is serious about assisting victims, I ask every member of the Government about the men and women who have been subjected to horrific crime, through sexual abuse and other sexual crime, and who formerly, under the previous Government, could get the assistance they needed. There is no dispute, in my view, about the crimes committed against those people. They will live with the horrific nature of those crimes for the rest of their lives. They need counselling, perhaps psychological assistance, perhaps medical assistance, and other support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe know that under the previous Government those victims of sexual abuse and sexual crime were getting the assistance they need. Under this Government many of them, most of them, are not getting that. I challenge the ACT Party, because we know of the affiliation between the ACT Party and the Sensible Sentencing Trust through Mr Garrett. He was intimately involved with the Sensible Sentencing Trust. I challenge the ACT Party. I ask Mr Boscawen to get up in this debate and challenge the Government that he and his colleagues prop up every day. If that party is serious about assisting and supporting all victims of crime, I ask Mr Boscawen, through you, Mr Assistant Speaker Barker, whether he will get up and challenge this Government and demand that it change its policy so that victims of heinous sexual crime can get the assistance they need through accident compensation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224481e469d9ea43eebcc27b059f7384de\u0022\u003EHon Dr Wayne Mapp\u003C/span\u003E: Leave it to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6925da954934e56af95cad9c8add3f3\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: What? Oh, the shell of the defence Minister has been burst.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo I challenge the ACT Party member to get up and challenge his own side in the debate. I challenge the Sensible Sentencing Trust, which has not at any time\u2014and I could be wrong; I stand to be corrected\u2014put out a statement decrying this Government for the changes to accident compensation policy and for the lack of support that victims of sexual abuse and sexual crime receive, thanks to this Government. Most of them are not receiving that help, and I challenge Mr McVicar, who has very strong views on the rights of victims, many of which I agree with, to perhaps put out a statement and decry this Government for the withdrawal of services to victims of sexual abuse. When we talk about victims at the top of the scale in terms of the offending they suffered\u2014whether it be the tragic circumstances of murder, rape, or sexual abuse\u2014I do not think we do think of sexual abuse victims as second class to any others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EAlthough Labour supports this legislation, there is a wider issue. In the crime of sexual abuse, those crimes have been dealt with and there is a guilty party. A jury has rendered a verdict and somebody is in the clink or paying the price for abusing and violating a member of the community. So there is no dispute that the crime happened. Then the question is what we as a Parliament, a people, and a community do about it. How responsible do we feel for aiding and assisting those victims of sexual crime? I know that a speech was made by Chester Borrows, I think\u2014if I am wrong, I apologise\u2014in which he asked whether it was appropriate that victims of sexual crime get help from the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC). I will say what is appropriate. What is appropriate is that they get help\u2014full stop. The bickering over the pot it comes out of has to stop. If the Government feels that ACC is not the appropriate place to assist victims of heinous sexual abuse, then I ask those members and I ask Mr Borrows where the replacement funding comes from. Where does the funding for those victims come from? Is it from the Ministry of Health or another Government department or agency? Let us stop the bickering about whether the money should come from the ACC pot or another pot, and whether sexual abuse is deemed to be an accident under the definitional rules of ACC. If it is the Government\u2019s judgment that ACC is not the appropriate place to help the victims of tragic and heinous sexual crime, then I challenge those members to tell us what they are doing about it, what they are replacing it with, and where the money is to help these people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe Minister for ACC has been derelict in his duty. He has been deficient in his job. He has not, as a member of our Parliament and as a member of our community, stepped forward and made a case in Cabinet. If he does not want these compensatory benefits to come out of Vote ACC, then he has a duty, as does every member of Cabinet and the National caucus who bleats on, those organisations and support parties such as ACT, and those organisations outside this place like the Sensible Sentencing Trust and others that purport to stand by victims\u2014and I take them at their word, and I respect them for those views\u2014to hold this Government and Cabinet to account and to demand that the resource is provided from some vote, from some agency, from some department, to assist those men and women who live with the crime of sexual abuse for the rest of their lives. I am told that many of them are not with us in our community any more. They have passed on, by their own hand, through suicide because they could not get the assistance they need. The acid test in this debate, the acid test of this Parliament\u2019s and this Government\u2019s commitment to assisting victims, is not in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe support this bill, we wrote the Act, we came up with the idea, and this Government\u2014and fair enough\u2014is extending it. I commend it for that. But the acid test as to whether we are truly in support of victims and are committed to that is what we do to assist the most vulnerable. I would argue that children, young men and women, and old men and women who are victims of sexual abuse and sexual crime, who under the last Government received the assistance they need but who were denied that assistance under this Government for petty bureaucratic reasons or cost cutting, are some of the most vulnerable of our citizenry. Although we have had days, weeks, months, and now years of this issue not being addressed by members opposite, the acid test for this Government is what it does and what it proposes to do to assist those victims, and whether its support parties stand up tonight, if they truly believe in victims\u2019 rights, and hold the Government to account, along with others outside this place like the Sensible Sentencing Trust, which in my view have been somewhat quiet on this issue. We support this bill. We wrote this bill. We support the extension to it, but I am serious when I invite members opposite to tell the victims of sexual crime how they will assist them as a Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa1a07d6f9384c1ca9908dc9b7a31bf0\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member but his time has expired. New Zealand M\u0101ori are 17; Wales are 13.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022d20b3824a531473bb07104f2ce285724\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d20b3824a531473bb07104f2ce285724\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E It is always gratifying to hear one\u2019s words come back to one. I believe that I was the person in the first reading of this debate who told my friend who has just resumed his seat that, yes, the victims of sexual abuse and child abuse need to be supported and it has to come out of the taxpayers\u2019 pocket. We do not care what bucket it comes from. That is a firm priority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EBut the point I want to make in respect of this bill is that it seeks to put victims at the heart of the justice system. I believe that victims are at the heart of the justice system, but what we need to recognise as a community and as a civilised society is that some of the victims at the centre of the justice system are there as complainants, as victims of crime, and as witnesses, and other victims of crime are in the court system as offenders. When we talk about abuse, and when we talk particularly about sexual abuse and violence, those victims can go on to become offenders. It is very, very easy for some of our lobbying groups within this country to regard everyone as a victim, up to a certain stage, and as soon as their victimisation is shown in their own offending behaviour, automatically all sympathy is chopped off. They become labelled as offenders, and that is it. They are due absolutely no regard whatsoever, and that is wrong. It is uncivilised to treat people in that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThis bill recognises that if people who are in prison and who have grievances against the prison system\u2014whereas those grievances may well be upheld and may be compensated in some way\u2014owe outstanding debt to society or to their own victims directly as the result of their own behaviour, then they will not be able to access any financial compensation, but they will still get regard in other ways in terms of redressing the wrongs that have been made against them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI am pleased to see that we have support from the other side of the House. I acknowledge that it was Labour when in Government that started the work on this bill. We look forward to the upcoming legislation that will replace it. But before I sit down I reiterate that if we are going to call ourselves a civilised society, we need to recognise that the vast majority of people in our prison cells at the moment have been offended against in heinous ways, and their resulting behaviour is to be expected. We need to show some understanding of that and treat them accordingly, in the way they deserve to be treated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022b84679f134324b498322ca11d1a2774a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b84679f134324b498322ca11d1a2774a\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to follow the erudite challenge set out by the Hon Clayton Cosgrove. His challenge puts the responsibility of victims\u2019 rights squarely in the hands of the Government, which does need to do more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ELabour\u2019s record of standing up for victims\u2019 rights is clearly set out by our commitment and by our actions in the past to address the interests of victims. I will outline that for the record. We introduced and passed the Sentencing Act in 2002, which introduced a presumption in favour of reparation and resulted in that sentence being used more frequently. The same Act also recognised the potential of restorative justice processes to make offenders more accountable to victims. It enabled courts to take both financial and non-financial offers of amends by an offender into account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ELabour introduced and passed the Victims\u2019 Rights Act in 2002, which extended a number of rights to victims, such as the right to information and the ability to have an input into sentencing decisions through victim impact statements. That in itself had a transformative effect on addressing the rights of victims. In terms of the practical examples that have come through my office, I have seen that it has made a big difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EIn 2003 the Ministry of Justice launched a campaign to trace those owed money. It introduced an 0800 number, and it also established new collection centres to further bolster the collection and disbursement of reparations. In 2005 we passed the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act, as Clayton Cosgrove has mentioned. It ensured that the victims of inmates who were awarded compensation could claim against the inmates\u2019 compensation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ELabour introduced the Pay or Stay initiative in September 2006. It enabled the Ministry of Justice to stop those people who had unpaid fines or reparations from travelling overseas if they attempted to leave New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe changes we introduced in the Evidence Act in 2006 provided for the needs of vulnerable witnesses and victims by making provision for witnesses to give evidence in alternative ways, such as giving evidence from behind a screen via closed-circuit TV or pre-recorded video. Victims of sexual offences, for example, have utilised this particular mechanism. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EWhen we amended the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families Act, we included a provision to ensure that victims of youth crime could attend Youth Court hearings. We also put in place provisions to ensure that these victims were kept informed of proceedings. In 2008 a Victims Charter was developed to build awareness of the standards of service that victims could expect from Government departments. We know that the Accident Compensation Corporation, in particular, was one Government department where a number of concerns were raised with regard to the handling of sensitive cases. An 0800 victim helpline was also introduced in that same year, as was a website for victims and a boost in funding for Victim Support, which offers much-needed services in many communities. All these types of initiatives built a profile of ensuring that the rights of victims continued to be addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EWe also announced that we would provide additional services in 2008 through the Family Court, such as the introduction of an independent victim advocate or support person to provide support and assistance to victims of domestic violence. I know that in many of the communities I support, this important service is heavily utilised to ensure that those suffering from domestic violence are supported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ELabour also asked the Law Commission to look at how to set up proper victim compensation schemes. I understand that that work is still continuing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EWe know that this particular bill is an extension of the gains that Labour made, and we are happy to support it. It is considering a minor technical change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EWe want to ensure that the big picture in terms of how National addresses victims\u2019 rights will have to supersede the record that has already been established by Labour. It is just not good enough, in terms of the accident compensation issues raised by Clayton Cosgrove, not to provide an avenue for those who have suffered sexual abuse, and for them not to have a remedy for reparation or to have their needs addressed. I know from the particular cases I have dealt with that the ongoing support provided by mental health and counselling services are very much needed services. It is absolutely reprehensible that this type of support might not continue to be available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI did not intend to take a long call on this reading of the bill. As we have said, this is a minor technical change, but let the case state that Labour\u2019s record of advocating for victims\u2019 rights stands in its own right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u00226b77d9bc9a944fdb92f3fc7f628a6ad5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b77d9bc9a944fdb92f3fc7f628a6ad5\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora koutou. When the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Bill was first proposed prior to 2005, the Greens opposed it, essentially on the basis of its effect on human rights\u2014that is, its reduction of human rights\u2014because it was likely to be ineffectual, as has now proven to be the case, and because most of the effects would be negative. It had very few positive elements or redeeming features. We were, at the time, persuaded to support the bill through its final stages, on the understanding that it would be quickly followed by a major reassessment and a major overhaul, with significant attention being paid to the whole issue of victims\u2019 rights. Clearly, everybody in this House is supportive of finding ways and means of compensating the victims of crime\u2014of getting redress for them\u2014as well as punishing and rehabilitating those people who cause problems and who create victims. However, we cannot, in all conscience, support this bill, the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill, at its second reading, which would mean the continuation of what is essentially a flawed, and indeed, a failed Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe Act has two features. It intends to restrict the circumstances in which courts can award compensation to persons under the control of the State, whether in prison or through some other means, and it intends to provide a simplified process for allowing victims to make claims on compensation awarded to prisoners. In fact, that has been more symbolic than real: there have been remarkably few successful instances where victims have had any benefit from this legislation in the 5 or more years since it has been enacted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe Act denies prisoners the possibility of redress for wrongs done by the State. Why would one continue with legislation that has failed? The victims, in this case, can benefit only if a prisoner or an inmate\u2014somebody under the control of the State\u2014has a windfall, or if the State abuses the human rights of that prisoner. That is about the only mechanism through which a victim can get any redress. Is it not perverse to create a situation where imposing on the human rights of one person is the avenue to rewarding another for wrong done to that other person? It is simply a peculiar and perverse model, and it would be better to simply remove it from the books and go looking for a proper solution. Part of the solution could be to establish a fully independent prison complaints authority. Such authorities are known to work successfully and are quite commonplace in other jurisdictions and in other countries. Absent such an authority, we need to be very sure that there is a very robust set of circumstances where prisoners can rightfully be awarded some compensation if their human rights are abused while they are in the control of the State in prison. If there are no checks on abuses in prisons, then inevitably prisons become more dangerous places\u2014they become more dehumanising environments. The flow-on effect of this is that prisoners become more brutalised, more dehumanised, and therefore more dangerous to society when they are released. It increases the likelihood of recidivism. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThere is no value in the Act. It has not worked for victims, and it has certainly not worked for prisoners; it can work only through a very perverse link of abuse, recompense, and secondary recompense to victims. The recent move to such unhelpful strategies as double-bunking to deal with the increased prison numbers is increasing tension in prisons. It is increasing the likelihood of tension and stress, and the violence that inevitable follows from that in our prisons. We know that there are better ways to deal with crime. We can reduce recidivism. We know that there are strategies that work, strategies such as the faith unit at Rimutaka Prison, which has had an extraordinarily good success rate at reducing recidivism. The rate of recidivism is down to perhaps less than 10 percent for inmates who have been through that programme, compared with something like 50 percent otherwise. We know that mechanisms are available to us today that could be applied within existing budgets by moving budgets away from concrete, steel, and wire towards serving the needs of the community by reducing the likelihood of recidivism and by healing prisoners. They are damaged people in the same way that their victims are damaged. We know that there are better strategies than continuing the failed strategies of the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIf the Government wants to get serious about crime, about reducing the prison population, and about reducing the knock-on and flow-on effects and the social, environmental, and economic costs of crime, then we know there are strategies and mechanisms available to us. Inhumane treatment of prisoners is effectively protected under this bill, because it takes away the likelihood of prisoners claiming compensation or objecting to the fact that their human rights have been taken away from them. We will continue to oppose the Act. It does not work; it was flawed at its enactment. It has proven itself ineffectual, and it would be a much better situation simply to start with a clean slate and look for a set of solutions that will deliver good outcomes. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u002267f5c4d8f0274ec38f867b385392146f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267f5c4d8f0274ec38f867b385392146f\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 tatou katoa. I start off by stating up front that I am opposed to the victimisation of any people, whether they are inside or outside of prison. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EOn the global website called Restorative Justice Online there is an article that is entitled \u201CCan prisoners also be victims? Promoting injustice through legislation.\u201D The article is written by Kim Workman, the very person who began the faith-based units in prisons that we have just heard spoken about by the Green Party. He was the head of prisons at the time of the Mangaroa assaults, a period of time that Workman described as one of the most shameful incidents in the history of New Zealand\u2019s prison system. He proceeds to discuss the situation that unfolded at Mangaroa Prison in January 1993, when three young inmates were systematically beaten and tortured by prison officers. The article is gruelling in its detail, recalling the way in which the officers held the young men naked in outside exercise yards and used hit squads to repeatedly beat them over a 3-day period. We need to be thankful that none of those three were one of our own sons. The prisoners were initially denied access to health professionals for the injuries that they had sustained, including bruising and cracked bones. Those 3 days from hell might have ended there. Fortunately, they did not. An inquiry was initiated, and it led to the dismissal of 12 prison staff, but it was a long time coming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EOver a decade later the 2004 United Nations Committee Against Torture reported the significant level of concern it had about the findings of the Ombudsman regarding investigations of alleged assaults on inmates, the reluctance to confront such allegations promptly, and the quality, impartiality, and credibility of investigations. Now, 17 years later, with the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill we are still dealing with the after-effects of that initial assault at Mangaroa Prison and the subsequent introduction of the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Act 2005, which we heard the Hon Nanaia Mahuta speak about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003ELet us go back to those three young men in 1993. Those men continued to wait for an appropriate response to such a vicious assault for 7 long years. During that time, some of the prison officers who had committed the criminal acts were re-employed within the prison system. Eventually, the Crown accepted liability and paid compensation to those inmates for the injuries that they had suffered. The public reaction was intense, intimidating, and aggressive. The Minister of Justice at that time, the Hon Phil Goff, cast aspersions on the original incident by referring to it as an alleged assault, and to the victims as a pack of scumbags. Suddenly the gates of hatred were unleashed. There were calls for the maximum use of custody and the maximum deprivation of liberty. The three prisoners who had been victims of the assault were described only in terms of their own offences. Members of the public claimed that because of their classification as offenders, prisoners were no longer entitled to be treated with respect or decency. Letters to the editor urged the Government to make sure that prisoners not have the same rights as any other citizens who are victims of State brutality and violence. In essence, there are two categories of New Zealanders: prisoners and everyone else. The overriding philosophy of that era was that prisoners should not have the same human rights as others in this country. They should certainly not be compensated, because in many respects, so the public record went, they should be considered less than human. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003ELike Mr Workman, I consider the Mangaroa incident and the horrific backlash that followed when due compensation was awarded as one of the most shameful incidents in the history of New Zealand prisons. The 2005 Act further entrenched that shame, this bill prolongs it, and all the indications are that a further, even more punitive bill is waiting in the wings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EBut there is still one fundamental question waiting to be addressed: what are we doing to address the abusive nature of a system that is supposedly meant to demonstrate justice? In responding to this bill, the New Zealand Law Society endorsed the views of the Ministry of Justice that the best way of preventing future claims arising from breaches of prisoners\u2019 human rights is to ensure that incidents leading to such claims are kept to an absolute minimum. I could not agree more. Justice is not about handing out punishments and inflicting numerous abuses upon a perpetrator for the rest of their living days. I am becoming increasingly worried about the relentless hostility of the public and political attitudes towards those who inhabit our prisons. Caritas Aotearoa - New Zealand told the Justice and Electoral Committee that \u201CDenial of basic human dignity and revenge does not make for good legislation.\u201D This view was endorsed by the Human Rights Commission, who warned the select committee that \u201Cconcern about the victims of crime should not override the importance of ensuring that prison conditions respect minimum human rights standards.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThe United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture in 2010 urged States to respect the right of victims to an effective remedy and reparation. The report recommended that each State party should ensure that the victim of an act of torture must be able to obtain redress and have an enforceable right to fair and adequate compensation, including the means for as full rehabilitation as possible. The special rapporteur did not take the step of making an exception for those who are in prison to render them ineligible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EWhat is the reason that we are taking such a harsh line here in Aotearoa? One of the signs of a mature and inclusive society would be the adoption of a less punitive criminal justice system. But if we were to read between the lines of this bill and all the discourse around it, we would pick up a message that going to prison is no longer sufficient punishment on its own. Clearly, a climate is developing amongst some parties in this House in favour of shifting the emphasis away from rehabilitation and humane treatment of prisoners to a lifelong sentence in which State brutality is permissible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EThere are victims beyond the victims, who deserve to have a voice. There are always the children and family members waiting on the outside. They also suffer if their loved ones are subjected to any cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022039b9b2087db425cb631a907e6263689\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member. The levels of discussions that are going on are such that I am having difficulty hearing the Minister. We have lobbies if people want to go out and confer. I ask members to keep the noise level down, because I think it is very unfair to the member speaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efc3aaf6c5464c66a6d989ed1f358c4e\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: Our greatest fear is that this legislation will influence the prison environment to such an extent that inmates will be less likely to complain, jails will become increasingly dangerous, and that danger will go unchecked. The system must be refocused to consider the needs of families and communities and to abide by the common law standard. It would ensure that inmates are treated with some dignity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EWe are aware that Tony Ellis, barrister, has decided to make direct communication to the United Nations Committee Against Torture, to Amnesty International, and to the Association for the Prevention of Torture for injustices that were formalised in the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005. He has also drawn attention to the fact that the Committee Against Torture recommended an inquiry in 2004 in respect of the claims laid by Chris Taunoa and others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003EWe have a chance tonight to put things right and stop this ongoing abuse of power by the State. The M\u0101ori Party will not be supporting this bill. We believe that the bill does not work in the best interests of prisoners, victims, nor the common good. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad8b71b14b2f45bf8d309e1af708b445\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad8b71b14b2f45bf8d309e1af708b445\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E If we are upfront as members, as I am sure we all are, we can accept that all political parties from time to time are somewhat simplistic and reductive in the way they deal with crime, from, really, all manner of viewpoints and persuasions. We can sometimes take the view that all prisoners are bad, and all serious punishment is good. Members on the other side can sometimes say that any more punishment is bad and that we should not be doing anything. I think we have to guard against that. The sad reality is that no party in this House and no set of laws\u2014even the best set of laws\u2014will see a New Zealand without victims and without crime. There will always be serious harm caused to victims and suffering for years and years to come, whatever the Government response. That is the reality of crime, and it goes back, effectively, to Adam and Eve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI have to say that I think, nevertheless, this is a very good bill. We are doing a strong thing, and I will come to that later. I will also say, with reference to thoughtful speeches by David Clendon and the Hon Tariana Turia, that I accept that prisoners can be victims, and I accept that certainly in serious abusive cases there is a need for the vindication of their rights, sometimes with significant compensation. But I also say that it is my understanding of this bill\u2014which was introduced by Labour, and is now supported by the Government, which wants to extend it\u2014that it does not take away prisoners\u2019 human rights. If I can put it crassly\u2014at a basic moral level, I think this is right\u2014the legislation creates a debt collection mechanism for victims, who have been knowingly wronged, often grievously so, by offenders who were later imprisoned, to receive compensation from their offenders. The bill in no way, shape, or from states that prisoners should not have their rights vindicated nor receive compensation. But where victims of their crimes have been put to cost, and they have not received what is their due from prisoners, the original 2005 Act, the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act, goes some way at least to righting that wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EEffectively, what we are doing tonight is extending the expiry date in the Act out to 2012. We are allowing the restrictions on the circumstances in which courts can award compensation to prisoners to continue, and we are providing a simplified process for victims of prisoners to make claims against prisoners\u2019 compensation before the prisoners fritter it away, to put it frankly. I am pleased to say that we are going further than that with another bill later this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI do not think that the members in this House can do everything required to right all wrongs, to ensure that there are no victims, or to ensure that victims never suffer, but I think that through this bill and quite a number of other bills that Parliament has passed this term, we are certainly going a good way towards getting better justice for victims in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022bcfccc5afca545f9bad58f3390854aa4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bcfccc5afca545f9bad58f3390854aa4\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill extends the restrictions on the awarding of compensation brought in by the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005 for a further 2 years, from 1 July 2010 to 30 June 2012. Labour\u2019s position is that, basically, we passed the Act that this bill is seeking to extend, and as this bill is only making a technical change to the date of the Act as an interim measure then of course we will be supporting this bill. This bill will ensure that victims will continue to get access to prisoners\u2019 compensation. This temporary measure is to make sure that victims\u2019 access to prisoners\u2019 compensation does not lapse between the expiry of the Act and the commencement of the new bill that the Government intends to introduce later this year\u2014so we hear. The aim of this bill is to amend the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act, and, because it is just a minor and technical change, we support it. The current Act states that the awarding of compensation to victims expires on 1 July, and that the victims\u2019 claims process applies only to compensation in respect of claims made before that date. This bill will extend that application to June 2012. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAn interesting thing that has come up about this relates to the protection of victims\u2019 rights. I will touch on some of the things that Labour did whilst in Government to ensure that victims\u2019 rights were protected. We took that matter seriously, and I think that is proven by our track record with regard to the legislation put into place by the previous Labour Government. We introduced and passed the Sentencing Act in 2002, which introduced a presumption in favour of reparation and resulted in this sentence being used more frequently. The Sentencing Act also recognised the potential of restorative justice processes to make offenders more accountable to victims, and it enabled courts to take both financial and non-financial offers of amends by an offender into account. Labour introduced and passed the Victims\u2019 Rights Act in 2002, which extended a number of rights to victims, such as rights to information and the ability to have input into sentencing decisions through victim impact statements. In 2003 the Ministry of Justice launched a campaign to trace those who were owed money, and it spent $385,000 on advertising an 0800 number for people to call. The establishment of new collection centres further bolstered the collection and disbursement of reparation. In the 2003 Budget, $9 million was allocated for that purpose. Labour passed the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act in 2005, which ensured that the victims of inmates who had been awarded compensation could claim against that compensation. The previous Labour Government has a proven track record with regard to taking the rights of victims seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E I will now touch on the lofty promises made by the National Government post the 2008 election with regard to the rhetoric that it has put out about the protection of victims\u2019 rights\u2014because it has been rhetoric. The Government has had a whole line on being tough on crime and protecting the rights of victims. It has purported to represent victims at some sort of level that has never been reached before, but unfortunately I think that its track record over the last 18 months shows that that is not the case. We need to look not only at what that Government has done in law and order but also at what it has done across the board. One area where it has failed to protect the rights of victims and failed to provide the necessary services required by victims to help them move on and progress in their lives is accident compensation. I think that this is relevant, because when we hear the rhetoric going around about protecting victims and then we see that this other stuff is happening in relation to accident compensation, we have to question whether that Government is fulfilling its promises to the New Zealand public. I am talking about sexual abuse victims who are no longer able to get the support that they need under the accident compensation scheme, thanks to the changes that National has made. That is something that all of us on this side of the House have seen with regard to the constituents whom we are out there supporting, advocating for, and representing in this House. We have seen how the changes in policy that that Government has put into place with regard to accident compensation have failed those particular victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI can think of one story I heard when I was in Waitakere recently\u2014maybe a month ago\u2014when I was meeting with different groups that provide counselling services for sexual abuse victims. This case was brought to my attention when I was meeting with those counsellors. It was in respect of a woman who had been sexually assaulted. It was a while ago, but she was still suffering from that sexual assault. She had been receiving counselling that had been funded by the Accident Compensation Corporation, and the counsellors were concerned that she would lose that funding. This particular victim and her family was very aware of this. The counsellor told me on that day that the woman\u2019s son even rang the counsellor and said that she could not stop providing those counselling services to his mother. He did not think that his mother could do it without the counselling, and he thought that she was at risk of committing suicide if she did not receive the service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EOn the same day that the counsellor was telling me the story, someone else walked into the room and let her know that the corporation had declined to fund that woman\u2019s counselling. We sat there and I asked the counsellor what she would do. She said that her group would continue to provide the service without the funding. There would be no support from the Government and no support from the Accident Compensation Corporation. The counsellors would keep giving the woman the counselling, but they could not sustain that for a long period of time. That is only one example of a person who is a victim and who has been affected by the changes in accident compensation that that Government has put into place. Her right to counselling, to recover, to move on, and to get the care that she needs, has been taken away by a change in policy from members on that side of the House. Going back to what I was saying before, we are concerned that what that Government says is purely rhetoric about the protection of the rights of victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIn that instance, it was definitely not something that that Government saw as being a priority. Instead, it has left that woman at risk, having to look after herself, and in potential danger. Talking about that issue a little more, over the last couple of years the number of approved claims for counselling were between 200 and 300 each month. The number of approved claims for the whole of New Zealand in January this year was 11 and there were only six in February. So members on that side of the House cannot say that the policy changes they have put into place with regard to accident compensation have not had an effect at all. It is obvious that the care provided to these victims has shrunk to almost nothing. That is only one example of where that Government has failed to protect the rights of victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThere are many others. We could talk about the \u201Cthree strikes\u201D bill and about how some of the submitters on that bill told us very clearly that it would only see victims re-victimised. They would be at risk of having to go through longer court proceedings because of appeals and other things. Those were the things that came through very strongly in the submissions. The last thing that I will touch on is preventing more victims of crime. That is something that this Government over there has failed to do also. The latest crime statistics showed that the number of crime victims are growing, not decreasing, under National. As the Government\u2019s response, the Minister of Police has cut police numbers in a number of areas. We have seen in Waitakere that crime has gone up and violence has gone up, yet recent information shows that the Waitemat\u0101 district will lose 10 police officers. So that will not help with regards to the number of victims we see. We support this bill, but we question the Government with regards to its ability and its track record to protect the rights of victims. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc365ae445d94c74ad839c2468bf4a2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc365ae445d94c74ad839c2468bf4a2d\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am privileged to participate in the second reading of the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill. The bill extends the restriction on the awarding of compensation for a further 2 years, starting from 1 July 2010 and going to 30 June 2012. The second amendment is that the victims\u2019 claims process applies to compensation awarded, or to be paid pursuant to an out-of-court final settlement, in relation to a prisoner\u2019s claim made on or after 1 July 2010 but before 1 July 2012. The Government wants to eliminate the all-too-frequent horror stories where victims are forced to relive traumatic events simply because the system has been deficient or has let them down. Invariably, the offenders are getting a better deal than their victims. Since this Government took office it has been working hard to improve the law and order situation in New Zealand. It has also given victims\u2019 rights top priority. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227ff544d8278941c5bcd5ac82cfb4185d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 14\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b8c38a47571e46de842f4d3cedc718f2\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u00220ef7f4338f434659bebb8e7ad5f072ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ef7f4338f434659bebb8e7ad5f072ea\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek the leave of the Committee for the Committee stage of this debate to be taken as one debatable motion, and that there be unlimited speeches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228360926016c845d18550d72a2742f719\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: That there be one debate, and unlimited calls. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208423976908f4e0d992f120ce34f317d\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Limited to the scope of the bill, of course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cdda0e77995417da7889312f1807dec\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Could the member restate the leave, so that I understand it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cd3216dd1e24a3ab3da7f450868389d\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the Committee for the debate on the Committee stage of this bill to be taken as one question, and that the number of speeches are unlimited, but limited to the scope of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022161324fa15bd4848a2929a1570402389\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there anyone opposed to that course of action? There appears not to be. Leave is granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022478015970a284094a2903453a0eed097\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2 and clauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022964fce4500364bbfbb6cfb21ec399508\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022964fce4500364bbfbb6cfb21ec399508\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Given the wide-ranging nature of this debate, but within the scope of the bill, that the Government whip has indicated, I want to touch on a couple of things that were said that are germane to this Committee stage, which were noted in the previous debate. We touched on a number of points. We said that Labour would support this legislation. Why? Because we wrote it. The extensions to it are technical in nature. They simply extend the provisions and the timing provisions for 2 years, which were put in place by the previous Labour Government. I listened to the debate with interest, but we noted that if this Government was serious in respect of how it deals with victims, the acid test was not a technical extension to this bill. The acid test, as colleagues on this side of the Chamber have alluded to, is how we deal with victims as a whole. The most germane example that members on this side used was the lack of resources that have been cauterised by this Government in respect of victims of sexual abuse and sexual crime. I waited and watched other members, and I noted Mr Borrows\u2019 contribution on two points. I invite the Minister to rise and enlarge on Mr Borrows\u2019 point. He said he acknowledged the lack of funding and the denial of funding to victims of sexual crime. He went on to say, because I wrote it down: \u201CThis will be a priority for this Government.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI commend him for the sentiment, but the victims are still waiting. They waited at the last Budget, they waited at the Budget before that, and they wait tonight. They are sitting in dark and cold places, waiting for a Government to stump up with some sort of money so that they can get the counselling and the help that they so desperately need. If funding is a priority, I say to the Minister I would be very interested to know when, where, which agency, if not the Accident Compensation Corporation, how much, and how the wrongs that this Minister and this Government have perpetrated will be put right in the denial of funding for victims of sexual crime and sexual abuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI listened with interest to the contribution from the ACT Party members\u2014those bastions who say that they stand beside victims more than anybody else in this Parliament. Was there a contribution? Well, I listened very diligently. There was no contribution from the ACT members\u2014none, zip, silence. What does that say? I then listened to the M\u0101ori Party members\u2019 contribution. It was an interesting one. There were some fair points made, I have to say, about some very tragic and appalling circumstances many years ago. But I also waited for that Minister and that support party to get up and also say: \u201CHang on. We think that the Government that we aid and abet every day has done wrong by pulling the rug out from under victims of sexual crime and abuse by cutting their funding, by not allowing them to get the help that they received under the previous Government.\u201D There was not a word. Oh, no. That would be a bit of a tough one, would it not? It would be tough to stand, grit one\u2019s teeth, and criticise the governing party that stands over us every day and demands our vote, demands our support, and demands our accountability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWhat about the M\u0101ori victims of sexual crime who are denied funding under this Government? Did we see the Minister and the co-leader of the M\u0101ori Party stand up for her constituents, and the constituents that her party purports to represent, and say it is wrong that her constituents who are victims of heinous and tragic crimes that they live with every day are denied the funding that they need because of this Government? Oh, no. That would be a bit tough, would it not? We can talk about history. We can talk about other injustices that occur, and we pay respect to them. But, oh no, it is being a bit meek and a bit mild. It is a bit tough to stand up and say: \u201CWe don\u2019t agree with what they have done.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI challenge Ms Turia, Mr Boscawen, and others who were very silent on this issue, because, of course, every day they aid and abet the injustice that is perpetrated by that party. I acknowledge that at least Mr Burrows addressed the issue, and at least he said it would be a priority for the Government in the future. The difficulty for Mr Borrows is that he does not sit in Cabinet; maybe he should, because at least he is prepared to address it in the debate. His Cabinet colleagues every day on a Monday morning sit there and do nothing about it. I say to Mr Borrows, good on him! He said it would be a priority for this Government. I take him at his word that he is knocking down the doors of Nick Smith\u2019s office and other colleagues and asking what priority means. When? Where? What agency? How much? When will we help these people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut I challenge every member over there, Mr Bakshi and others, to stand up and tell us what they will do to assist the victims of sexual abuse and sexual crime. Because of their Government, their vote, and their aiding and abetting of their party, when will those constituents actually get assistance? It is not good enough to say that it will be a priority in the future. I say again that these people waited in the Budget before last. These people waited in the Budget we have just had. These people waited tonight and every night this week, and will wait next month and the months after. They have their own nightmare every day and every night as they live with what was done to them, and they live with the fact that because they do not have the means, they cannot access the resources that they desperately need, even though there is probably somebody in the clink, and there is no dispute that a crime was perpetrated against them\u2014there is a verdict that says they were done over, assaulted, maligned, and treated tragically and disreputably. No one disputes that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe acid test is not this legislation; this legislation is about extending what we did when we were in Government. The acid test as to whether the Government is committed, as I have said before, to assisting the victims and the most vulnerable is what it is going to do about those victims whose funding those members over there in that Government cauterised. Oh, no. Members can hear a pin drop in here, can they not? There is not a word. Mrs Turia smiles. Well, I say to Mrs Turia, as she grins away at me, that when she does her next clinic and a member of her constituency, M\u0101ori or P\u0101keh\u0101, walks into her office and says: \u201CI need help; I was raped, I was assaulted, I was abused.\u201D and that constituent cannot get the assistance that he or she had in years past, because of the vote that that member and her ilk give that Government every day, I wonder whether Mrs Turia will sit there quietly, meekly, and mildly as she does in that Mother Teresa - like way, and grin at that constituent. I wonder whether she will. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI think better of that member, actually; I suspect she will not. But again, it is the acid test. She is a Minister. She has incredible power. She actually has the power as a coalition partner to not only stamp her feet but to say that she and her party are out of here, that she is not going to tolerate this. But no, they are\u2014to use the biblical phrase\u2014like lambs to the proverbial slaughter. Well, I say to Mrs Turia, Mr Boscawen, Mr Garrett, and the Sensible Sentencing Trust that those who stay silent and do not protest this injustice against protecting the most vulnerable, those who stay silent and bear witness to it will have to be accountable to their various constituencies, both at an election and in other places and other times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI invite the Minister in the chair to deal with Mr Borrows\u2019 pertinent point: he said this will be a priority for the Government. I invite him to get up\u2014we will give him as long as he wants\u2014and tell us when this injustice will be righted, when the money will flow and become available, and what agency will administer it. These poor folk live with it every day and every night. As I think my colleague Lynne Pillay said, some are no longer with us. They have taken their own lives because they cannot cope, they cannot deal with the crime that has been perpetrated against them, and they receive no assistance from this Government. How many lives could we have saved if we had ensured, despite the bureaucratic bickering over there from Nick Smith and others, that\u2014to hell with it\u2014these people would get the assistance they need? How many victims\u2019 lives could we have saved? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to people who get up and make lofty statements about victims that here is where the rubber hits the road. We will wait and see what happens in the lead-up to the next election, because I suspect all of us on all sides of the House have had victims of these crimes come to us in terrible circumstances, begging for assistance. They should not have to beg. The Government that they are governed by in this country is there to assist them, support them, stand by them, keep them alive, and give them the assistance they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u00227c27ad649cbd463d946cba898d70524c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c27ad649cbd463d946cba898d70524c\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E One of the problems with the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill\u2014and it is a problem with the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act, which it amends and which came into force under the last Government\u2014is that it gives the impression that victims are getting serious financial compensation. In fact, they are not. It is just crumbs from the table for a few victims. The real question of proper compensation for all victims of crime is not addressed in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that when the original bill came through under the Labour Government and became an Act, the victim support organisations were amongst the harshest critics of it, because they saw that it would give some pretence that there was real compensation for victims, when there was not any universal scheme for providing appropriate financial compensation. There has been some development\u2014and the police have done a good job in this area\u2014of victim support immediately after a crime is committed, when people are suffering badly from psychological trauma. There is a great volunteer system across the country of people who give freely of their time to help the police and to be with victims at their time of greatest trauma. But when we come to the follow-up system of proper financial compensation to put people back on the road and to compensate them for what they have suffered, we find that it is not really there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIn fact, as has been commented before, there is a perversity in the legislation in terms of the crumbs from the table that some victims might get. Victims almost have a vested interest in criminals in jail being beaten up then making a compensation claim, because the victims will get a little bit of the compensation themselves. It is a twisted way of a victim of crime getting compensation. The whole concept of punishment is distorted by this bill. When people commit crimes they are sentenced to be punished by a term in prison. That is the punishment\u2014the term in prison. They are not sentenced to have other things done to them, like being beaten up, or anything like that. There is almost a concept behind this bill that they deserve a bit of beating up, a bit of punishment, because if that happens they will not be rewarded so much in terms of any compensation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThere is the concept that prisoners are lesser beings, in fact, with lesser rights, and that is a very bad concept that eats away at our ethics. The root of all prejudice is defining a category of people as lesser beings, and perhaps subjecting them to mistreatment and beating. In extreme cases, we have fratricidal conflicts and ethnic conflicts where people beat up and kill each other because they treat the other lot as lesser beings. Prejudice in this society towards prisoners\u2014and Tariana Turia mentioned this in her very good speech\u2014carries over to prejudice against other races, particularly races that are more highly represented in the prison population. This bill, by treating prisoners as lesser beings with lesser rights, including lesser right to compensation, is feeding that stereotyping of people in a negative way. It cannot be tolerated, and that is why the Green Party is voting against the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022756ba683e26b495394c4b3d753c26f60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022756ba683e26b495394c4b3d753c26f60\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We support the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill. As has been discussed, it is just a technical change. It amends the Prisoner\u2019s and Victims\u2019 Claims Act, which was an Act that Labour brought in, in 2005. We support it because it addresses the rights of victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI will touch on something that my colleague Clayton Cosgrove discussed earlier with regard to the absence of the ACT Party in the debate on this bill. That is concerning because so often we hear from its members about the protection of victims and the rights of victims. We heard that rhetoric over and over again in relation to the \u201Cthree strikes\u201D bill. Yet when there is genuine legislation before us that actually addresses the rights of victims, those members are nowhere to be seen. That is concerning because it shows that ACT really is not about the rights of victims or the protection of victims; it seems that it is more about punitive measures for offenders, with no real compassion for victims fuelling that. That is of concern to members on this side. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe bill addresses the rights of victims to any compensation that prisoners may have access to. Victims will be able to make a claim on that money. So the bill addresses the rights of victims. But this side of the House has an overwhelming concern that although the bill does that, it is only one part of what needs to be done. A lot of other things need to be done. A lot needs to be done by the National Government to protect victims\u2019 rights, but, unfortunately, over and over again it has failed to do that, in so many ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EOne of those ways is the Government\u2019s changes to accident compensation policies. It has failed to protect the rights of sexual abuse victims and it has failed to provide the support that those victims require. It has let down those victims and it has let down the extended families of those victims. This side of the House feels that that is intolerable. It is hard for us to listen to members opposite say they support this bill because they support the rights of victims. We know that, on the one hand, National is supporting this bill, that it has introduced this technical change so that the legislation Labour introduced in 2005\u2014the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act\u2014can be extended, yet, on the other hand, National has denied sexual abuse victims their right to accident compensation services, to the counselling that they require. That is a concern, but it is only one example. There are other examples.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI will touch on the increase in crime that we have been experiencing across the country over the last couple of years. There has been an increase in violent crime and in crime generally. One of those places that has experienced that increase is Waitakere, but, unfortunately, the Government cut the number of police in that area by 10 officers. It is difficult to comprehend how we can assist victims of crime or stop there being further victims of crime when we see actual cuts to the number of police available to address call-outs to ensure that those things do not happen or to address them when they do. That is another area where we have seen the Government fail to protect victims. It has avoided doing anything about the increasing number of victims, and it has not represented them by making sure that whatever policies, whatever measures, whatever actions it takes are supportive of victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ELabour members support this bill. We support it because we introduced the Act in 2005 and we know that it is good legislation. It does all of those things that I said the National Government should be doing in other areas but has failed to do. The bill protects the rights of victims and it addresses the rights of victims, so we are supportive of it. We are happy that the National Government is extending the Act. It is good to see the Government doing something right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022e874739e6b044dfe84daa228441675cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e874739e6b044dfe84daa228441675cf\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E It seems a little odd that all the speakers in this Committee stage so far have come from the Opposition, and that this Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill essentially just extends a provision that the Labour Government brought into effect back in 2005. That seems odd, because National campaigned so heavily at the last election campaign on being tough on crime, on being the law and order party, and on being the party that would put victims at the centre of justice and law and order policy. Of course, its campaign was all about what a bad job Labour had done. Well, if National were really serious, if National actually had some ideas, and if National were to follow through on its campaign promises, then it would not be extending something that Labour had already brought in back in 2005. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe party that has had some success in pushing through harsh and Draconian law and order legislation is, of course, the ACT Party, which is also stunningly silent this evening. David Garrett was the architect of the \u201Cthree strikes\u201D legislation, and I was lucky enough to have an interesting debate with Mr Garrett not so long ago. He came up to Palmerston North to extol the virtues of that legislation, and we talked about all the ways in which that legislation has also failed to put victims\u2019 rights at the centre. We will see victims going through much longer trials as the incentive comes into place to encourage those who have been charged with a crime to fight it to the bitter end by appealing against their sentence because it will be so harsh. We will see victims dragged through all of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe \u201Cthree strikes\u201D legislation did nothing to support victims in the way that the forerunner of this bill, the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005, went a small way towards doing. We talked about the fact that the \u201Cthree strikes\u201D legislation has absolutely no preventive character about it, whatsoever. Mr Garrett even accepted that the Ministry of Justice figures were right in that we would see more people going into prison because that legislation simply would not be effective in actually preventing any crimes, or in preventing any more people from becoming victims. It was \u201Cambulance at the bottom of the cliff\u201D stuff, which in a way I suppose this legislation is as well. That is why it was always only a temporary measure. Labour brought it in as a temporary measure only, but National is so devoid of ideas and so shallow in its campaigning that it has nothing to follow it up with. The ACT Party, the party that is supposedly tough on crime\u2014it is even tougher on crime than National; they are trying to outdo each other as to who is tougher\u2014has absolutely nothing to say about this bill, whatsoever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EGiven that this bill is an extension of what the Labour Government introduced, perhaps it is worth reflecting on what a good job Labour did in putting victims\u2019 rights at the centre. Back in 2002\u2014as long ago as that\u2014the Sentencing Act was adjusted to introduce a presumption in favour of reparation, and that resulted in reparation being used as a sentence far more frequently. In 2002 we also saw an increase in the use of restorative justice, so that offenders would actually be more accountable to victims. That legislation really put victims at the centre of sentencing and of law and order policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003ELabour introduced the Victims\u2019 Rights Act back in 2002, as well. Moving forward to 2008, Annette King introduced the Victims Charter to develop and build awareness about the standard of service that victims of crime could expect. Of course, Labour promised to put a significant amount of money\u2014about $1.5 million, or more than that, I think\u2014into Victim Support to boost that organisation\u2019s ability to provide services to victims. That is the kind of policy, the kind of legislation, that puts victims\u2019 rights at the centre. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis bill is perfectly reasonable, and that is why Labour will support it, but the legislation it amends was only ever something temporary. It was a temporary measure with a view to doing more. Frankly, the National Government, midway through its term, has had plenty of time to think up new initiatives to show that it had more to its campaigning, more to its rhetoric, than just a shallow, knee-jerk reaching out to those who felt affected and abused by crime if they had been victims of it. This is a nothing bill. We will support it, but, really, it does nothing for victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022432108204d90455ba0df5d917fb3b39d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022432108204d90455ba0df5d917fb3b39d\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E It is interesting to hear the tirade that is coming from the other side of the Chamber, as Opposition members seek to elevate themselves in terms of the issue of protecting victims\u2019 rights, just as when previously in Government they sought to elevate themselves by claiming to be harder and harder on crime. It is very interesting to note the number of things that they did not do, along with the number of things that they have not supported when they have come up within the House, to actually address things such as preventing crime, preventing the causes of crime, and looking after victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EFor instance, we remember the tirade that we heard about the introduction of the DNA legislation, which provided for the taking of DNA samples from everybody who was arrested for an imprisonable offence. We remember the long speeches that we heard from, for instance, Moana Mackey, who told us what terrible things one could do once one had secured the DNA from somebody who had been arrested for an offence. That legislation allows us to isolate the DNA profile of somebody who has been arrested for a minor offence so that at some stage in the future, if further and more serious crimes are committed against victims, that person can be identified early. That is probably the single most significant legislation that has been introduced to this House in 100 years to prevent victims from being violated in very serious ways. All that we received were brickbats from the Labour members in respect of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker, Iain Lees-Galloway, talked about this Government having done nothing for victims. I ask, what about the Child and Family Protection Bill? The Opposition members will very quickly say they drew up the provisions that are now in that bill, introduced them in the House, and did a whole lot more than we are doing. But I ask when Labour\u2019s bill was introduced to the House. It was 4 days before the Parliament adjourned for the 2008 election. It was introduced then because Labour had been too busy self-promoting, in terms of the Electoral Finance Act, to get on with the business of protecting the citizens of this country. Although in the whole course of this debate those members have banged on and on about victims, they failed throughout the whole term of the previous Government\u20149 long years\u2014to address the prisoners who are languishing within our cells and the victims of their crimes. The previous speaker talked about the Victims\u2019 Rights Act 2002. That Act replaced the Victims\u2019 Rights Bill, which had been introduced by the former National Government prior to its leaving office in 1999. Labour waited 2 years before it did anything about replacing that bill. It is all very interesting to hear the Opposition members accusing us of doing stuff while we are in Government in respect of victims, yet Labour wasted and squandered the opportunities that it had to do things while it was in Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill maintains the integrity of those people who are in jail, by making sure they receive the best treatment and punishing those who would keep them in a manner that does not give them the best treatment, which they deserve as inmates being held at the bequest of the Crown. But, having been sentenced for a crime, it prevents them from accessing big amounts of monetary compensation that should rightfully find its way to the victims of their crimes. The Opposition members will vote for this bill; in fact, almost everyone in the House will vote for it. We have not heard one single reason why the Labour Party supports this legislation, other than that its members bang on that they might have thought of it first. Any sensible Government would have done so. We do not try to claim lots of points for promoting legislation that Labour put in. Labour agreed with this bill, and it transitioned through the Justice and Electoral Committee very speedily because of the ability that we have on that committee to compromise and understand one other, regardless of which side of the House we come from, and because of the sterling work of that committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00224e40318a96494f1e98dfc9454c1cf28c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000944\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e40318a96494f1e98dfc9454c1cf28c\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will give the previous speaker, Chester Borrows, one reason why Labour is supporting the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill: this is transitional legislation and it relies on the National Government bringing legislation to this House soon, or so those members say. We do not trust the National Government to bring in sensible legislation that will follow on from this. As has been said before, this bill flows from an idea when Labour quite rightfully identified some problems with victims seeing themselves as being ill-treated when compensation was paid out. As a former Minister, I agree that the Mangaroa situation referred to by the Hon Tariana Turia was a sad state of affairs. The process was a lengthy one and compensation was paid out to prisoners. People at that time said it was rather unfair that prisoners got compensation but they or their family member, as a victim of crime, were unable to get any assistance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000945\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIn principle, as the speakers before me have said, Labour supports this, but the devil is always in the detail. The fact that the bill and the Government state that we will be bringing back into Parliament later this year another victims\u2019 claims amendment bill makes us wary. That is why we will support this bill, but we have reservations. The question that the Minister in the chair, the Hon Nathan Guy, might be able to answer is this. Today we have a prisoner on the run. The Minister of Corrections and the Minister of Police are one and the same, so maybe she can talk to herself and work out who is responsible for this prisoner escaping; but he is on the run. I suppose we can assume that he is under State responsibility, and if he commits a crime, does this bill kick in? Does this bill provide a process for anyone\u2014victim or prisoner\u2014who may be hurt in the pursuit or the recapture of that particular prisoner? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000946\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, we are seeing too much of this. I suggest that we will see a whole lot more problems with prisoners under National Government control, under the care, protection, custody, or security of the Minister, who has double-bunked up and the down the country and who, in my view, is creating for herself a powder keg. We will see more problems for prisoners themselves, we will see more victims\u2014and many of them will be prisoners, because they may have been assaulted by other prisoners. We know there is a huge gang influence in the prison system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000947\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe question I ask of the Minister in the chair is how this legislation will affect prisoners who might be dealt to or severely harmed in prison under the control of the Government. Does this mean they receive compensation; if so, where should it go\u2014to their family? Perhaps the Minister can take a call, as there is plenty of time for the Minister, who I am sure has some idea of whether this bill will address the issues of compensation that might be claimed by a prisoner who is severely beaten by another prisoner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000948\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a0720b80a9048acbf6ed9ed7d72b018\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Come on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000949\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022260d7617788a4b49af53166bf8ef3dce\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Quinn knows that that happens quite a lot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000950\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c47c866ad3044b38bdc04948bf16dcb\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Do I?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000951\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229ece4ad9e6344d38f03384f3c9c61a8\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, out at Rimutaka, close to his home. He knows\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000952\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ab57d4859de44eba96133ffe0e1c3f2\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: He doesn\u2019t live anywhere near the Hutt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272b7938442c84a8ca88273ece85ae913\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Is he not near the Hutt?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000954\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed8bf1fdf7f841509ed5adc211283b8b\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: He doesn\u2019t live anywhere near the Hutt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000955\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ceff01b6361c4a46a4bf31772e57b386\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: No, I suppose he never is out there; I guess that is right. Perhaps he lives in Rimutaka Prison. No, I cannot say that. There are some legitimate questions that the Opposition has about this legislation. The previous speaker asked why Labour is unsure about this. I tell the member that it is because it is being passed on the basis and on the assurance that the next legislation coming through will address and assist victims. We have already heard from my colleagues that if someone is a victim of sexual assault, then he or she is likely to continue to be a victim because no assistance will be provided by the National Government and its accident compensation system. Maybe the Minister can take a call and answer some of the questions I have for him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6c15871be3746149f4ce243c8b26b37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000956\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6c15871be3746149f4ce243c8b26b37\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: While we are here working under urgency, the Committee might be interested to know the rugby score is England 28 and New Zealand M\u0101ori 35.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u0022b181c1377f864f9480259bb05d0233f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000957\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b181c1377f864f9480259bb05d0233f6\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to take a call on the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill in the Committee stage. Of course, Labour is supporting this bill. I was interested to hear the member Chester Borrows comment that he did not know why Labour was supporting this bill. I tell that member that it is because it is an extension of the legislation the Labour Government passed, the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005. I remember that I was at that time a member of the Justice and Electoral Committee, which considered the Labour legislation, and National Party members were very critical of it. I am very pleased to see that they have seen the error of their ways and have decided to extend the legislation Labour put in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000958\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003ELabour\u2019s legislation attempted to address a very, very difficult problem. I recall members of the National Party saying that we should have taken away the right to sue altogether. That view ignored the reality that we were dealing with a range of issues from the very ridiculous to the very serious; we felt that that was the best way to address them. I am pleased that Chester Borrows has confirmed that National has seen the error of its ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI will also address comments that Chester Borrows aimed at me in regard to DNA legislation. Again, it just confirms that National has absolutely no understanding of this issue, at all\u2014no understanding. Chester Borrows criticised me for raising very valid concerns about the funding of increased powers for DNA use by the police and the funding of the Institute of Environmental Science and Research. The point I was making was that when Labour introduced extended powers for DNA use by the police and the criminal justice system, we could be assured that Labour would properly fund the police and the Crown research institutes to carry out that work and avoid a miscarriage of justice in the use of this very powerful technology. Yet under this Government we have seen a broken promise on the funding of Crown research institutes\u2014a broken promise. We have seen science funding slashed and we have seen scientists let go. The point I was making, which appears to have evaded Mr Borrows, was that if the Government will not fund DNA legislation properly, it opens up the very real possibility that there will be an enormous miscarriage of justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI remind Mr Borrows of the case that happened right here in New Zealand, when a man in Christchurch was arrested for a homicide. He had given a DNA sample because he was the victim of an assault. Fortunately, he had a very good alibi for the homicide, which was that he was in Christchurch being assaulted at the time of the homicide in Wellington, and therefore could not possibly have committed the crime. That case highlights why DNA legislation needs to be backed up by funding. If Mr Borrows does not understand that fact, I am concerned about what it means for our police, Crown research institutes, and the citizens of New Zealand, who could be wrongly convicted of crimes they did not commit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000961\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI also point out to Mr Borrows that it worried me that the Government seemed to think that DNA testing was foolproof. It is not. If the Government thinks DNA testing is foolproof, that having DNA evidence means an automatic conviction and that not having a DNA sample means we will not, it is a very dangerous situation. It concerns me that the member seems to be so scientifically illiterate that he would attack me for raising those very valid concerns in the Chamber as we extended powers of DNA legislation beyond that which already existed. All a DNA sample at a crime scene proves is that someone\u2019s DNA was at a crime scene. It is then up to the rest of the evidence to prove that the person was there, and that what the prosecution says happened actually did happen. It is up to all the other evidence. The flip side is that the fact that there is no DNA evidence at a crime scene does not mean that we cannot get a conviction. I know it has been frustrating for prosecutors around the world that because of what is called the CSI effect, people seem to think that if there is no DNA evidence, we cannot possibly get a conviction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThis goes to show why, as my colleagues have been saying, this Government seems to have absolutely no understanding of those issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000963\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed29951b6a8c4e99b27de9c956502511\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Which ones?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000964\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235984a88ff564c458d6bc6a9c314fa90\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: All of them, I say to Mr Borrows\u2014all of the issues that have been raised tonight. We are pleased that the Government is carrying on a piece of Labour legislation, as it has in so many other areas despite saying that Labour\u2019s time in office was the worst 9 years in the entire history of the universe. It seems to have carried on with most of Labour\u2019s legislation and changed hardly anything. The fact is that the comments made by Mr Borrows, which inspired me to come to the Chamber and respond, show just how out of touch this Government is when it comes to victims of crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa7fa62b32d748efa714c01dfa5e1ba3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000965\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa7fa62b32d748efa714c01dfa5e1ba3\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora koutou. The purpose of the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill and the Act that it seeks to extend is clearly about compensating victims, and, indeed, that is appropriate. Victims suffer loss of property, they suffer physical damage, and they suffer emotional and mental injuries, and it is appropriate they should be compensated for that. The Greens have been very happy to support legislation that is effective in compensating victims for the wrongs done to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000966\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThat raises a question that I would like to pose to the Minister or to any of his Government colleagues who would like to comment. How many individual victims have received compensation in the 5 years that the Act has been in place? How much money have those people received? Give us some ballpark figures. Approximately how many victims have actually benefited, and to what extent have they benefited? It is a fairly simple question, but it would be interesting to hear the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000967\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThere has been quite a lot of activity around the Department of Corrections this year. We certainly cannot accuse the Minister of Corrections of being idle. We have seen legislation that enables the use of court cells as holding cells for sentenced prisoners, despite the fact that we know from the UK and elsewhere that that is quite a dangerous mechanism that inevitably reduces prisoners\u2019 access to rehabilitation. It removes them from their families, and, at worst, makes it difficult for them to be provided with basic, adequate food and sanitation. We have seen an active move towards double-bunking in our prisons. Prisons that were designed for a certain number of inmates now carry significantly more than that number, and that inevitably will raise tensions in prisons. It will make them potboilers, and will increase the likelihood of violence and more victimisation, both within and outside those prison walls. We have seen the \u201Cthree strikes\u201D legislation, which takes away the opportunity for judges to make considered judgments on individual cases. It effectively takes the mandate away from judges and puts it on to Parliament. Again, that is an imposition on people\u2019s rights to be heard fairly and properly in a court and to be sentenced by that court. We have seen the way opened for private management of prisons, and, once again, we know from international experience that that will degrade conditions within prisons. Inevitably, the profit extracted from them will mean there are fewer services available to prisoners, and there are fewer staff. Prisons will become more dangerous, more violent, and less humane places.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000968\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EA week or so ago the Law and Order Committee was treated to a show-and-tell from the Minister and her chief executive officer. We saw a demonstration of the equipment being given to guards to protect them, such as helmets, stab vests, heavy boots, batons, and pepper sprays. The Minister\u2019s solution to more violence in prisons is equipment to defend or, rather, to protect the officers who have the unenviable job of going in after violence has broken out to try to clean up the mess, to try to resolve an incident that has already occurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000969\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EAll of those measures are reflective of a very busy and active Minister, who has a very busy portfolio. But where is the legislation that would return some justice to the victims of crime? Amongst these bills and these new policy moves, it is very difficult to see anything that will contribute to the well-being of victims. We are all committed, I am sure we agree, to compensation being given for harm done. But where is the proactive policy, where is the drive to find solutions to crime, to find solutions to victimhood, to recompense victims, to reduce the likelihood of reoffending, and therefore to reduce the creation of more victims? We are simply not seeing it from this Government. What we are seeing is activity, legislation, and policies that are symptomatic of a view that prisoners should lose their rights, that they should be locked up for longer, and that they should suffer tougher sentences. That is despite the evidence and the common-sense assessment that those strategies will simply lead to more violent societies and less safe societies, and will leave the victims of crime out on a very long limb, with very little support and very little likelihood of recompense. Kia ora koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf1ec74aec1447d98debc3efafa78bef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000970\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf1ec74aec1447d98debc3efafa78bef\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I have one question for you, Mr Chairperson Roy. The New Zealand M\u0101ori rugby game against England: where was that played? In Napier, I think; the lucky city is in Hawke\u2019s Bay. The Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill is a very interesting bill. Chester Borrows talked about DNA. I think that every now and then the Government has to take a DNA sample to check whether Chester is still alive. Well, he may be at the moment, but I can tell members that the word on the street in Whanganui is that Hamish McDouall is ahead in a poll that was taken recently. He is storming ahead in Whanganui. Here is a tip: if members have a spare $10, they should put $5 on the All Whites, and $5 on Hamish McDouall. Hamish is safe odds in Whanganui. It used to be our seat, and it will be our seat once again, so I say \u201CGo, Hamish!\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000971\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis bill is about the victims of crime. Of course, it contains provisions that were introduced in 2005 by a hard-working Labour Minister. It is hard to know which one it was, because they were all very hard-working. As we all know, after 9 years Labour had got through one hell of a lot of legislation. It changed society for the better, without a question of a doubt, for victims as well for other people. Chester Borrows stood up and said the Labour Opposition has not given one reason why we support this bill. Well, I will give National one reason why we support this bill: because we support victims\u2019 rights, as well. Who would not? Of course we support victims\u2019 rights. New Zealanders support victims\u2019 rights, because New Zealanders support justice against inequity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000972\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBut I will give members a story about how this Government is eroding the rights of victims. There is a house in Napier called Serenity House. It is on the hill. Anyone knows Napier at all will know that the hill is a beautifully treed place. People would not know that this house was beside them, if they lived beside it. It is a house where five women stay for a period of, on average, about 18 months. They are women who suffer from a severe lack of self-esteem and confidence. Eighty percent of those women are victims of sexual abuse. But that house is scared that its funding is to be cut. I ask members, as I asked the Serenity House manager, where those women would be if they were not in Serenity House. There are three places that they would be: firstly, in the psychiatric ward of the mental health unit of Hawke\u2019s Bay Hospital; secondly, perhaps living on the streets and occasionally working on the streets; and, thirdly, dead from suicide. That is the stark reality when we take away the rights of victims, and when we cut accident compensation funding. When I mentioned to the manager that funding for the counselling of the victims of sexual abuse was being removed from the accident compensation scheme, she said she knew that, but she was horrified. She could not believe that any Government could be so heartless as to do that. I know that the women on the Government side of the Chamber must agree with me. How could they not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000973\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESerenity House has been going for a while now, and once the five women pass through their course\u2014these are mothers, and there is a registered nurse in there; a lot of them are educated women\u2014they go out and become productive members of our community. That house does a fantastic job for those women and a fantastic job for our community, but there is a possibility that its funding will be cut. I challenge the members over there, and I challenge Nick Smith, to organise a meeting with women\u2019s groups\u2014with the Women\u2019s Refuge; with the women from Serenity House and from DOVE, for example\u2014to front up to these women, and to tell them why he is cutting the funding for counselling. Why is Nick Smith doing that? Then, in the same breath, the Government says it stands up for victims\u2019 rights. That is an oxymoron. I do not understand it, the women who are affected do not understand it, and New Zealanders do not understand it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000974\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EChester Borrows stood up and asked what Labour had done with regard to crime. Well, I will tell him what we did: we reduced crime. That is what New Zealanders wanted to be done. We reduced crime. As Chester himself will know, we sent the police out into the community, and we set up community police stations. When I talk to the police officers of Napier, they say they think that was a fantastic initiative, because it allowed the police to communicate and integrate with their local communities, and, boy, that has made a huge difference. That \u201Cus and them\u201D mentality between the police and the community has all but disappeared in Napier. The police are now part of this community; they are accepted. The community goes to them if it has any problems, and the police are proactive about going out to the community. It is a wonderful initiative, and Labour set it up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWe talk about being hard on crime\u2014like David Garrett and his \u201Cthree strikes\u201D policy. That harks back to the 19th century, when in England paedophiles were put in the same prison cells as the young children who had stolen loaves of bread. Is that what Mr Garrett wants this country to head back to? Mr Garrett is the voice in Parliament of the Sensible Sentencing Trust. Is that not an unusual name\u2014the Sensible Sentencing Trust? We all want there to be sensible sentencing. Garth McVicar is from the Bay, as well; sometimes we throw up interesting characters in the Bay. He is passionate, but he gets it wrong, and that is a shame. Unfortunately for him, he ends up with people like David Garrett in the House, trumpeting the \u201Cthree strikes\u201D legislation, which, evidence has proven, does not work. In fact, Mr Garrett himself stood up in this Chamber and said he acknowledged that it would not work, but he thought we should still go ahead with it. National, with its blind faith in the ACT Party, said it would support that measure because it had said in its supply and confidence agreement that it would do so. Where is the ideology? Where is the evidence? That legislation will not help ordinary New Zealanders. It will not help the victims of crime; in fact, more than likely it will create more victims. It is a travesty, and it is not what sensible sentencing is all about. It is not about that philosophy; it is about how we deal with those people. But, no, we do not lock them up in cells now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000976\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI will tell members what England used to do. Before it sent prisoners away to the colonies, it stuck them in decommissioned warships out on the Thames. Then they were sent across to Australia. Well, we are not putting prisoners in decommissioned warships these days; we are putting them in decommissioned containers. That is not a far cry, is it, from what England used to do in the old days. I think that if Mr Garrett had his way, he would actually stick prisoners in decommissioned warships. How does that help the victims of crime? It does not help them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000977\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI plead with the Government to think about whom it is harming when it takes away accident compensation funding for the victims of sexual abuse. I would love to take any member from the Government side of the Chamber to Serenity House, to see the good work that that organisation and its staff do, and to see the difference that they are making in our communities with damaged women, 80 percent of whom are there because they are the victims of sexual abuse. I am a huge supporter of the victims of crime. I think anyone who doubts whether any MP on this side of the Chamber supports the victims of crime needs to have his or head read, and does not understand what the Labour Party is about. We support this bill, but we have serious reservations about the words that are coming from the Government benches. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u002290755b32f37d491c84590ab0b756f5a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290755b32f37d491c84590ab0b756f5a3\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to take a call as we debate the Committee stage of the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill, which deals, of course, with the victims of crime, and tries to ensure that they get some justice from the processes of the courts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000979\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe bill picks up on some good Labour legislation that was brought about by the quite notable Taunoa case, where compensation was awarded to a murderer, and others. The Government of the time\u2014with Mark Burton as a Minister and Phil Goff as the Minister of Justice\u2014was determined to bring in legislation that ensured that although we met our international obligations and did not deny those in prison the right to the justice system, where compensation was provided to offenders inside the prison system it would not mean that those who had been the victims of violence by those offenders would be excluded from benefiting from that compensation. This bill is about extending the date for a couple of years while the Government looks at a replacement model\u2014and that is fair enough. But I would like to comment\u2014and my colleague Stuart Nash touched on this issue\u2014on the difference between the Government\u2019s approach in respect of this legislation and the treatment it has given to victims of an equally serious, heinous part of a judicial system, and that is sexual abuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000980\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI was interested to note that the number of people seeking counselling support for the trauma of sexual abuse was 200, or even 300, a month last year. Then suddenly, with the changes that were introduced in February by the Minister for ACC, Nick Smith, we saw six people being awarded compensation in the form of sexual abuse counselling. I think about an organisation in my electorate, the Male Survivors of Sexual Abuse Trust. It is headed by Ken Clearwater, who does an exemplary job and who was a victim of sexual abuse in the past. The sorts of people who come through his office have often been in court, have been damaged at an early age, and are now perpetrating offences against others as they lash out to try to find some kind of redress for the abuse they suffered, sometimes many decades before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000981\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe idea that we can be a just and humane society but not provide those people with the only support that we can provide\u2014that is, counselling and assistance\u2014that we can cut the number of people being granted counselling support back from 200 or 300 a month to just a handful, is an indication of this Government\u2019s lack of commitment, despite it talking the talk about supporting victims, and about how it really is providing support. We can recall Nick Smith maintaining the pretence that the new guidelines had been conceived under the previous Labour Government by Massey University, but Massey University blew the whistle on that and said that, no, the new guidelines were not of its initiation; they had been devised by the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC). We had months and months of Nick Smith trying to say that the new pathway that had been developed was perfectly fine and was based on evidence, but only last week an ACC manager finally admitted to Mary Wilson on Checkpoint that the changes might have been introduced far too fast for sexual abuse victims. The numbers very much make that very, very clear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000982\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI think also of the double-bunking that has been introduced under this Government. We know that crime and punishment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000983\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ace3d2caaaf94303b9ec2e31293eaf5d\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Wonderful!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227213630f984747f4a94d0003140feee5\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it will be! We need only think about the poor lad in the back of the van in Auckland and what happened to him. When we start putting violent criminals with others, it is a recipe for disaster, and the price will be paid very, very quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000985\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EWe know that crime and punishment is about the scales of justice, and they have to be balanced, and they have to be balanced on an ongoing basis. When we see what is happening with sexual abuse victims, we see that the balance is certainly not there, and if the Government is going to do more than pay lip-service to the victims of crime, it needs to acknowledge that it has made a ghastly mistake in respect of savagely cutting back counselling services for victims of sexual abuse, both male and female\u2014both male and female. The Government needs to acknowledge that the least we can do as a decent, just, and humane society is to continue to provide support to people who have been subjected to trauma. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000986\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EWe are beginning to celebrate some of the people who have gone through that kind of abuse. I heard Louise Nicholas on the radio this morning. She is an outstanding New Zealand woman who stood her ground and brought to the attention of the public some of the abuses that can happen when people are not called to account. I think that most people regard her very, very highly. Aaron Gilmore\u2014the dancer, not the politician\u2014was recently in the media relating his story. Abuse happens to males and females, and both sexes need access to counselling. We have heard this Government talking the talk about victims\u2019 rights, but when it comes to delivering services to them we have seen the numbers receiving help fall from hundreds to a handful. That is an illustration of the fact that this Government will talk the talk but not walk the walk in respect of delivering for those who are the victims of violence in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000987\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003ELabour\u2019s record on this issue goes right across the board. We introduced the Sentencing Act in 2002, with its presumption in favour of reparation. We introduced the Victims\u2019 Rights Act in 2002, which extended a number of rights to victims. We introduced the legislation that is being amended by the Government now\u2014the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act\u2014in 2005, and, of course, in 2008 Annette King announced that the Victims Charter would be developed, to build awareness of the standard of service that victims can expect from Government agencies. Those victims include those who have been the subject of sexual abuse, and I would like to see the Government reinstate the counselling that was available to those poor people who have been the subject of sexual abuse trauma and who deserve every bit of support that can be mustered by the State. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022577a18cc030c407480614250911fc9a6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Parts 1 and 2 and clauses 1 to 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 14\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2 and clauses 1 to 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000988\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000989\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002275987a1e1b5b4c9fadaf52343691e466\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022eccaa1edc99c45da9ccb1444c013d4d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000991\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eccaa1edc99c45da9ccb1444c013d4d8\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Associate Minister of Justice)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: I move, That the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. This bill is straightforward. It prevents significant parts of the existing Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005 from expiring on 1 July 2010. The bill maintains the status quo for 2 years, giving the Government the opportunity to pass new legislation that will direct compensation payable to prisoners to the victims\u2019 services appropriation after any victims have claimed against it. This bill ensures that compensation payable to prisoners for claims made before 1 July 2012 continues to be subject to the existing restrictions on awards of compensation. Those restrictions require prisoners to make use of the many existing complaint mechanisms that are available to them before they seek compensation through the courts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000992\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIf a claim is made through the courts, compensation can be ordered only where it is absolutely necessary to redress the harm done. If compensation is ordered, victims of the prisoner may first seek redress for the harm they have suffered. The prisoner can access the compensation only once the victims\u2019 claims process is fully complete. In effect, this bill creates a transitional period whereby prisoners with outstanding grievances have an incentive to seek resolution before the second set of planned changes comes into force. If their claims are made before 1 July 2012, they will be subject to the existing regime. However, prisoners who make a claim after that date will not receive the benefit of compensation if it is awarded. Their victims will still be able to claim against it, and anything remaining will benefit victims generally through the victims\u2019 services appropriation. Let me restate that prisoner mistreatment should not be tolerated. However, it is time to resolve historical grievances and ensure that where compensation is necessary, victims have an opportunity to seek redress for the hurt they have suffered. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002268109db6fa3b49d4a3a3f72d9bdd3756\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000993\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268109db6fa3b49d4a3a3f72d9bdd3756\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E This has been an interesting debate. Mr Guy\u2014the second or third Minister, I think, who has dealt with this piece of legislation tonight\u2014described the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill as straightforward. He is right; it is a straightforward piece of legislation, which in theory, given that everybody in this House apart from the Greens and the M\u0101ori Party supports it, should have flown through the House with a high degree of ease. The bill may be straightforward, but the issue of assistance and support for victims is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000994\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say again that the Labour Party is supporting the passage of the bill for a very simple reason: we wrote the Act it amends. A member opposite said we helped it go through the House. No, no, we wrote it, and we passed it when we were in Government. The Government today is extending its provisions by 2 years, and we have no problem with that. This bill extends the provisions we put in the Act, which we wrote and passed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000995\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe bill is straightforward but the issue is not. Throughout this debate it has been very instructive to listen to the words that have not been spoken, to listen to the silence exhibited by especially the ACT Party. We have raised an issue as an acid test of one\u2019s commitment to victims. I agree with my colleagues who say they suspect that no one in this Parliament does not have a genuine belief that victims should be supported, despite all the political gasbagging that we have heard from some people on the other side of the House. The ACT Party believes that it has a monopoly on supporting victims, that it comes from a higher plane, and that everybody else\u2019s commitment to victim support is lower than its commitment. I say to those members that their silence on this issue tonight has been absolutely deafening. On the one hand, Mr Garrett and those members say that they support victims; on the other hand, on the issue raised tonight that this Government, which ACT props up, has pulled the rug out from under victims of sexual crime and sexual abuse by cutting their funding, aided and abetted by the ACT Party, which purports to support victims, we have not heard one word tonight about that policy stance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000996\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that every Minister who has been in the chair or who has introduced a stage of this bill has not made one contribution that addresses that issue. The only member who had the guts to raise it and at least address it was Chester Borrows, and I think he made a reasonably robust contribution. Chester Borrows said\u2014and it was tantamount to admitting that his Government had cut funding\u2014the Government will make addressing the issue a priority. He said that, and I respect him for it. But not one other member opposite did so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000997\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EGovernment members prattled on and listed all sorts of legislation that they had passed, and that is an undeniable fact in this House. The quality of much of that legislation is in question, as is its effectiveness or lack of it to support victims, but it is an undeniable fact that this Government has fired through various Acts that it claims will assist victims\u2014and the jury is out on that. But that does not negate the issue that has been raised time and time again tonight about the lost souls, and there are a number of them, who have committed suicide because they could not get the support and the funding that they needed and that they used to get under the last Government, and that is an undeniable fact\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000998\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267a67053ae874a53a8a3de164b697b6f\u0022\u003EHon Tariana Turia\u003C/span\u003E: Prove it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793000999\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d9c2d1726134febb0d1e77b9bffe3da\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: The member should look at the last Budget and at the general policy statement on the bill. That is the first time the member Tariana Turia has squeaked any words in this House about that issue. All she has done tonight is grin about it and laugh about it. I say again to the member that when a constituent comes to her office who is a victim of sexual abuse and cannot get funding because Nick Smith and the National Government have cut that funding, I wonder what she will say to that woman, man, or young person. Will she grin and say, as she did tonight, \u201CProve it.\u201D? Thanks to her vote, she could say that she is part of the problem, because she voted for that cut, she aided and abetted it, and she supports it today. The proof of that is that not once in this debate did she get up and express even mild disapproval on behalf of those lost souls, the men and women who every day and every night wait for some assistance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMr Borrows said that the Government will make it a priority. Good on him. At least he is prepared to say that. But, sadly, the problem with Mr Borrows is that he ain\u2019t in a position to deliver. I am sure that he is knocking on the doors of his Ministers and saying that they have to do it, they have to make it a priority, an agency has to fund those people, and something has to be done. He is a constituent member; he has probably had these folks in his office. But not one other Government member has addressed the issue. Government members talk about everything else. They talk about the fact that they have passed legislation for victims\u2019 rights and other things. That is all well and good, but not one member from any party opposite will address this issue, apart from \u201CMiss Laugh A Lot\u201D down there, who has grinned and laughed about the issue throughout the debate. Not one of them will say that they will make it a priority, that they will make it happen tonight, tomorrow, or on Monday at Cabinet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMy colleague Brendon Burns mentioned Ken Clearwater, a constituent of mine, who is doing the Lord\u2019s work with male survivors of sexual abuse. Ken Clearwater and his clients wait for help every day. They waited for help in the Budget before last and they waited for help in the last Budget. Every man, woman, and young person who is the victim of a sexual crime has waited for the help they used to get under the last Government. And I say to Ms Turia that I do not have to prove it. The proof is every person who got counselling, psychological assistance, and their medical needs met by accident compensation over the 9 years of the Labour Government. The proof is the men and women who survived the trauma of sexual abuse and sexual crime because over the 9 years of the Labour Government they got accident compensation funding and they got assistance. I say to Ms Turia that that is the proof\u2014that they are alive today. That is the proof that the system is broken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EAn injustice has been perpetrated, and it has been aided and abetted by every last one of the members opposite who would not stand up to take a call\u2014there is a word for that, and I would love to use it\u2014to even talk about the constituents who have walked into their offices. They will talk about everything else. They will talk about legislation, the Bail Act, or anything else. I ask them what they will say to the constituents in their electorates who walk into their offices. Many will not walk in. Because of the shameful acts that were done to them, they will hide in places, they will hide from their families, and they will not ask for help. They hope and pray that the Government will stand by them. Because of the nature of the crimes perpetrated against them they feel ostracised, and they rely on the Government to protect the most vulnerable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI would have thought there was not a lot of politics in this issue. I would have thought there was a lot positive politics to be gained for a Government and a Minister that did as Mr Borrows did and said that that assistance should be made a priority. But not one Minister\u2014not the Minister for ACC, not the Minister of Health, and not Nathan Guy\u2014did that, nor any member of the two parties that are led by the nose like lambs to the slaughter, including the \u201Ctough on crime\u201D party. Not even the Sensible Sentencing Trust has ever decried the fact that the National Government has cut the funding for the victims of sexual crime. I wonder why it would not make a comment. Why would it not express anger? I challenge members opposite to use Mr Borrows as an example and at the conclusion of this debate get off their chuffs, go to their various Ministers, and demand funding for those victims. I do not care whether it comes from the Accident Compensation Corporation; I do not care where it comes from. But they are the victims. That is the acid test, not a couple of clauses to extend the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act. The acid test is whether that crew over there will help the most vulnerable, who have nightmares every day and night because of what was done to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00228582668be12048b7bbbd6d4a876bacbb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228582668be12048b7bbbd6d4a876bacbb\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E It is good to come to the third reading of the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill and to see it progress. I was pleased to hear the member who has just resumed his seat, the Hon Clayton Cosgrove, say that there is not a lot of politics in the bill; I thought he actually beat quite a bit of politics out of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI am pleased that the bill will progress through the House tonight and that people will be in a better situation as a result of it. I am disappointed that it is only interim legislation until another bill comes in to fix the problem on a permanent basis. I am very sorry that although the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005 could have been fixed before 2008, it was not. It is one of this Government\u2019s priorities to deal with it. This bill is one of a number of very worthy bills that address the range of issues affecting victims, offenders, and their behaviours in our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI look forward to the bill being passed and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022e188ebcf6a774debb4b2152657c44a7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e188ebcf6a774debb4b2152657c44a7a\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill and to say why Labour will be voting for it. As has been expressed previously, the bill comprises a technical amendment to extend restrictions on the awarding of compensation brought in by the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims Act 2005 for 2 years, from 1 July this year until 30 June 2012. The Government has indicated that this is an interim measure. It is interesting that the Government member Chester Borrows said that he is disappointed that that is the case. We understand that a more comprehensive bill may be introduced later this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EContributions on this side of the House have raised a flag and asked the Government to think about the victims of sexual abuse and to reinstate funding to the Accident Compensation Corporation to support those victims through counselling and support services. Members of the Labour team have given numerous local examples expressing just how important those services are to women and men throughout the country. It is not good enough for members on that side of the House to purport to listen to the rights and interests of victims when those who have suffered sexual abuse and are vulnerable are suffering both physical and mental abuse and continue to do so. They are not able to receive accident compensation funding to break through some very dark places. A number of us have been told at a personal level some stories that we would not repeat in this House. Suffice it to say, they are the types of stories that would urge this House to think again, and certainly urge members of the Government to get their Ministers to act now, address this issue of funding, and ensure that women can get the types of support and counselling services that they need\u2014women and men. Men are victims too, I say to the Minister of Justice, and they need help. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI have also listened to other views expressed in the House. I agree that the Government must not create further victims as a result of its policy flaws and the flaws in some of its thinking\u2014policies like double-bunking, which increases the risk to both prisoners and security guards. I say to members to go and visit a prison and look at just how small those rooms are with single beds, let alone double beds. None of the prisons were designed to be double-bunked; they are such small, closed, and confined spaces. Policies like container cells are creating conditions that I believe are inhumane, no matter how we dress it up. If one puts lipstick on a pig, it is still a pig. These are inhumane conditions, and I do not think it is the way to go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe Government has policies like profit-driven incentives through private management of prisons, where the bottom line is more important than rehabilitation initiatives and programmes aimed at reducing long-term recidivism\u2014yes, it takes investment. The Government needs to rethink its \u201Cthree strikes and you\u2019re out\u201D policy, which is just a dumb policy. Those policies are all a range of measures that the Government has introduced, creating victims in some sense but also not creating a very good approach to a way forward that supports restorative justice, supports rehabilitation, reduces recidivism, and promotes greater investment in the system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI raise these issues to draw attention to the numerous matters resulting from the Government\u2019s broader policy ambitions. At the end of the year the House will be waiting to see how the Government intends to stitch together a comprehensive approach to addressing victims\u2019 rights\u2014we cannot wait. However, this country can ill afford to take a \u201Clock \u2019em up and throw away the key\u201D approach. Restorative models of justice are necessary; long-term rehabilitation to reduce recidivism is absolutely critical. Investing at the front end of youth development initiatives will go some way to making a long-term difference to the lives of many New Zealanders, and will make for a better New Zealand. But will the Government listen? That is the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThis bill contains one minor technical amendment; the bigger debate is yet to come. We can already see the writing on the wall in terms of the policy ambitions and the devastation that will result from them. The country deserves more from this Government, and it should do more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff74590f0e1348818707cec611cd38d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff74590f0e1348818707cec611cd38d2\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I must begin by acknowledging the Minister in the chair during the Committee stage, the Associate Minister of Justice, for his very prompt and complete answer to the question I posed as to the number of victims who had been compensated under the terms of the Prisoners\u2019 and Victim\u2019s Claims Act 2005 over the last 5 years, and the amount of that compensation. I am now informed that a total of $25,000 has been awarded to the victims as reparations, and a total of four victims have been awarded a total $38,000 under the provisions of that Act. So we know that in 5 years some $65,000 in total has found its way into the hands of victims who otherwise would have received nothing. That is an extraordinarily small amount of money. My expectations were not high; I have not been disappointed in those expectations. I would have thought it not beyond the wit of this House to come up with a mechanism that would deliver a great deal more real, practical compensation to victims than a very paltry $65,000 over 5 years. It seems hardly worth the time of this House to extend the life of this Act in order to perpetuate legislation that has clearly failed in its intention to return even a small amount of compensation to victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EClearly the Greens and the M\u0101ori Party are alone tonight in this House in terms of our opposition to the extension of this Act through the Prisoners\u2019 and Victim\u2019s Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill. But we know that others outside this House support the position we are taking. We know this in part through the submissions that were made to the Justice and Electoral Committee. I will quote from a couple of those submissions, firstly from Caritas, the agency for justice, peace, and development that is the social services arm of the Catholic Church in New Zealand. It is quite clear: \u201CCaritas opposes the bill. We originally opposed the 2005 Act on which it is based because victims of crime will only benefit and be compensated if the offender is mistreated by the State and awarded compensation as a result of this mistreatment.\u201D A point that has been made tonight is that it is a very perverse mechanism to award compensation to a victim only if the human rights of another person, an inmate, have been transgressed. That is a very strange daisy chain and a very peculiar mechanism for delivering compensation to people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe Caritas submission goes on to say: \u201CWe still believe that under this legislation \u2026 few prisoners will pursue complaints of abuse and violence and even fewer victims are likely to receive compensation payouts.\u201D Clearly that expectation is borne out by the history of the last 5 years\u2014a very paltry $65,000 of benefit. Caritas further points out that \u201CThere is no incentive for prisoners to be compliant with prison authorities. A situation in prisons is created where there is nothing left to lose \u2026 The Act creates an environment where prisons are potentially more dangerous, and the extension of those provisions in this Bill repeats that risk.\u201D Caritas is an organisation that is not self-interested; it has no axe to grind. It is an organisation concerned only with peace and justice in this country. It is making very clear and well-informed statements that this legislation is not worthy of extension, and that it sees no value in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe Human Rights Commission in its submission supported the continuation of the Act, but only rather tentatively and on the grounds of an assumption that there would be a full review of this legislation, and that by 2012 we will have legislation in place that is more compatible\u2014to use the commission\u2019s language\u2014with article 2 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. In the body of its submission it makes the point that, in its opinion, the process of awarding compensation in this Act does not amount to an effective remedy in terms of article 2 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. The Human Rights Commission went on to say that proposals to deal with the capacity crisis in our prisons\u2014such mechanisms as double-bunking, two to a cell\u2014are short-term remedies and are likely to increase the number of human rights issues that will need to be dealt with and the likelihood of transgressions of human rights. It goes on to say: \u201Cthe State faces fewer adverse consequences when it fails to meet its obligation to prisoners.\u201D under this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe Law Society is an organisation that cannot be trifled with. It is a highly credible organisation with a long history of analysis and commentary on legislation and law. It noted that in 2005 it opposed the Act being enacted. It quoted the United Nations Committee Against Torture as having expressed concern that the 2005 Act limited the award and the payment of compensation to prisoners. The society agrees with the Minister of Justice, quoting him as saying that \u201CThe best way of preventing future claims arising from breaches of prisoners\u2019 human rights is to ensure that incidents leading to such claims are kept to an absolute minimum.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWould it not be more sensible to put our energy and our efforts into minimising and reducing the offences against inmates while they were in prison\u2014to get that unlovely proposition out of the way? Would it not make a great deal more sense to put effort into finding and applying the known mechanisms for reducing crime and recidivism, therefore reducing the number of victims? It is about finding real mechanisms and restorative justice processes that will enable victims to feel that they have experienced some closure and received some compensation, be it of a financial sort or simply in being able to let go of the emotional, mental, and occasionally physical trauma that results from crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe know that programmes that work are in place. The Sycamore Tree programme works with high-end offenders and has achieved remarkable outcomes in turning round lives and giving victims an opportunity to see that their concerns have been heard and that their issues have at least been confronted by the perpetuator of the crime against them. I mentioned earlier the faith unit that manages to deal with some 60 people a year, but probably could offer useful service and better outcomes for some 2,000 prisoners\u2014that is the estimate of the Prison Fellowship. Some 2,000 prisoners would get benefit, would improve their behaviours, and would reduce the likelihood of recidivism if they were able to get access to programmes of that nature. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe know the solutions that work, and this bill is not one of them. The Act that it seeks to extend is not part of the solution; it is part of the problem. For that reason, we will vote against this legislation. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022af2b518ef3ce48f683a4ac1dfd4350c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af2b518ef3ce48f683a4ac1dfd4350c7\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E I have respect for the previous speaker, David Clendon, and I think he has raised some valid points. But I think he has at base proceeded from a misguided sense of what this bill is doing. He is essentially saying to this House that the human rights of the prisoner will be transgressed by this bill. Well, I say to him and to other members of the House that that is not actually what this bill does, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283492cb9c7f54fdf89a0d2c63c09acba\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Didn\u2019t the Nats vote against this in 2005?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bfb585620354fd293d2a076c013c54a\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I will give Carmel Sepuloni a little bit of advice on this bill. I agree that it was originally her party\u2019s bill, and I am supporting it, so there is not really any need for heckling. But I say to David Clendon that he comes from a misguided position. In fact, this bill does not take away any prisoners\u2019 rights. Let us say that a prisoner is wronged in a serious way by a prison guard, and the prisoner receives compensation. I agree that that prisoner should receive the compensation. But the issue then is what happens with that money. Rightfully and morally, the guard owes the victim of the prisoner\u2019s crime some money. Perhaps, the victim has been seriously and substantially put out of pocket because of the wrongs the prisoner has done. Well, I say that morally that person deserves some of that money. That is what this bill does. His rights have been vindicated because the State has had to pay out, for argument\u2019s sake, $25,000 to him. It could be a \u201Cher\u201D, but it is more likely be a \u201Chim\u201D, going on the numbers of men and women in our prisons. But then from that, his victim of crime is also vindicated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe idea that the State pays out for its wrongs is not without controversy. I happen to agree with that. But it was something that the courts did without reference to Parliament, and I think it was through Baigent\u2019s case in the early 1990s. It had another name\u2014Simpson v Attorney-General. That case was not without controversy. I personally agree with it. But it is controversial to argue that somehow dishing out compensation is a basic fundamental right. It is not necessarily the absolute truth. But I come back to the point. This is a good bill, and it does the right thing. I think David Clendon, although working from good motives, is misguided when he says that the human rights of prisoners are transgressed with this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u00226f601c4d2f5d44e09db4470b335ee6ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f601c4d2f5d44e09db4470b335ee6ad\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak on the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill. I want my colleagues to listen very carefully to my views on this bill, because the words I am about to express are not necessarily the same ones that my colleagues have expressed. I am told that this bill is an appalling fraud that is being committed on the people of New Zealand. I am told that the fraud being perpetrated on the House and on the public will only re-traumatise victims. Those are not my words or my beliefs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217bc983d3c1342359446b9f56dc1c9e1\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Whose words are they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9e0172e18c440e1bd4681fcfc4212f8\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: They are the words of the Hon Tony Ryall. In 2004 the Hon Tony Ryall, in the most extraordinary pantomime way possible, told the House that this kind of legislation was an appalling fraud that was being committed on the public of New Zealand. Mr Ryall, in response to an interjection from Labour members about what he would do, said: \u201CI will stop this kind of legislation when I get into Government.\u201D That is what Tony Ryall said. That is the kind of consistency in the justice portfolio that we see from Tony Ryall. In the same way in the health portfolio, at question time today we heard that in Opposition it is very important to close the wage gap with Australia for doctors, and in Government it is an impossible thing to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI will give the Hon Tony Ryall one piece of credit, which is more credit than his own colleagues give him. He said that he only stopped these kinds of payments under a Government led by Don Brash\u2014he regaled the country in December 2004. But, of course, do not forget that Tony Ryall was the man who used to scarper along the parliamentary corridors with a big folder under his arm, saying \u201CTe Puke bypass\u201D. That was when he was organising the coup for Jenny Shipley to roll Jim Bolger. So he was on Jenny Shipley\u2019s side. When it came to this legislation before Parliament, he was on Don Brash\u2019s side. He thought he should be the Prime Minister of New Zealand, in respect of this bill. But now that it is back before Parliament, all of a sudden he is in favour of it. But the most amazing thing is that not only did he say those things in Opposition, but he sat in the chair tonight as Minister in charge of the bill, pushing it through Parliament; that is what he did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI want to say one thing. When Dr Wayne Mapp, who is a Minister I know that members opposite are so proud of, gets up in the House to answer questions we can feel the pride radiating from Government members. It is like a rerun of the great BBC drama when the Rt Hon Jim Hacker, Minister of Administrative Affairs, gives his answers. Wayne Mapp said that this bill is a bizarre lottery. Wayne Mapp, probably never having won many prizes in life, would know. Georgina te Heuheu is an extraordinary answerer of questions with regard to legislation on appropriations. No one is better in the House. In fact, to be fair, the only place where the Minister of Pacific Island Affairs is better at answering questions is on Morning Report. She is pretty good there; she answers good questions on that programme. But in the House she tells it like she sees it. She said this was a fraud perpetrated not only on the House but on the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EIn 2005 Simon Power got up in the House as the Opposition shadow spokesperson on justice. By the time Simon Power spoke, there had been yet another leadership change in the National Party. Don Brash had gone, and John Key had arrived. Simon Power was reinvented in the justice portfolio. He said that the problem with this bill is that it re-traumatises victims, and National will have no part of that, as he led the National members into the Noes lobby. Do members know what Tony Ryall said? He said: \u201CI will not let a figment of the United Nations decide what happens in New Zealand.\u201D Well, the United Nations was going to decide whether we passed the original legislation, which through this bill we are now turning into a revalidation. We were not going to kowtow to the United Nations convention on torture. But of course when it came to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, not only were we going to sign up to it but we should do it in secret. We had the stealth jet flying from M\u0101ngere Airport, and landing at John F Kennedy International Airport in New York, and the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs scurrying across the tarmac and signing up to this declaration, because by that stage Tony Ryall believed that declarations like this were aspirational. But of course when it came to this bill, he was not going to have a figment of United Nations law taking any part in what we should say about this. He said legislation like this was window-dressing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI am trying to explain why members, before they commit to the third reading, should decide whether they vote for it. Members opposite, I know, are such staunch researchers of their own party\u2019s history. The great thing about the 2005 and the 2008 intakes is that they have no idea what National has done before, which is why they clap and cheer like performing seals whenever their leaders speak; it is because they are hearing everything for the first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EOne man with a future in the National Party\u2014and I say this to make sure he does not have one\u2014is Simon Bridges, whom I endorse. He spoke with such pride on the Government\u2019s bill, but he would have no idea that his neighbouring MP, Tony Ryall, had said those things in 2004 and 2005. Get this. Do members know what Tony Ryall, of all members, said? He said of this legislation: \u201CThis is nothing more than a public relations exercise.\u201D, yet here we are today, passing this law. At least our bill was several clauses and several parts long. This bill has only two parts and seven discrete clauses\u2014seven deadly sins, one might say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003ENational finished up by saying that this bill should be blocked, stopped, and wiped, which is exactly what the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Date) Amendment Bill does, does it not? Oh no, sorry. What it does is to give the Act new life. It resuscitates and breathes new life into it. I tell you what, I would not want to take any advice from him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EI will finish by saying that we should quote somebody who is a man of great substance and a person who is always over the detail. I can quote no other such person than the Leader of the House, Gerry Brownlee. He said: \u201CWhy would you vote for a bill that just lines up New Zealand with other countries? This bill is out of touch and should not be supported.\u201D He also said that this bill was a load of rubbish. Well, we have heard a lot of rubbish from members on the other side of the House tonight as they have got up and tried to say why they are revalidating legislation that just a few years ago they said they were against. I do not mind that they do things like that. I understand that conservative politicians are always years and years behind where they need to be. No matter what the issue is, they wait 10 or 20 years, and then they say: \u201COh yeah, that is status quo now. I am conservative. Status quo is for me. I am all for it.\u201D All that the Opposition asks tonight is, if those members are going to flip-flop on a bill, then they should at least have the good grace to get up and say that they might have been wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u002288f81807c5864f359e7cfb7783d7721f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288f81807c5864f359e7cfb7783d7721f\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E I intend to take just a very short call on the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill. All night we have been asking why the Government has been so quiet on this bill, and why the ACT Party has been absolutely silent on it. Of course, now we have figured out what that was all about. They were not prepared to put themselves in the position where they had to accept that, actually, this bill, which extends legislation that the previous Labour Government brought in, turned out to be extending legislation that the National Opposition had voted against at the time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIt was interesting that the one member of the National Government who got up and spoke on this bill during the Committee stage was Chester Borrows. His contribution was quite good; it was quite a reasonable and measured contribution to the debate. Interestingly, from what I have been able to find in the last few minutes\u2014although I am not sure about it\u2014Mr Borrows did not make a contribution to the debate when the legislation was first debated. But Tony Ryall spoke for him. Tony Ryall spoke on behalf of Mr Borrows, and he stated: \u201C\u2026 Chester Borrows will tell the people in Wanganui, that under this legislation offenders will still get the money.\u201D, and that is why people like Mr Borrows and Mr Ryall were going to vote against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022692293716dbd461885fd3e1c596a7c52\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s he saying now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bad1aaef32e04c5b9a94889ef845626f\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this is the thing. Just a few years later, Mr Borrows got up and did not tell the people of Whanganui that this is a terrible bill, at all; he got up and told us why it is such a fantastic bill and why it represents such progress from the Government on law and order issues. Tony Ryall said that he would stop these payments. Of course, he did say, as my colleague Darren Hughes pointed out, that he would stop them under a Don Brash Government, so he has managed to keep that promise. But he also said that the Labour Government was prepared to mislead the public about the effects of this legislation. Well, I ask what is more misleading to the public than standing up and abusing legislation, and telling the country that it will do nothing for victims\u2019 rights, that it will simply be in favour of offenders, and that it is misleading legislation. And what do we get from a National Government just a few years later? National members have finally figured out what good legislation it is and why they should vote in favour of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe ACT Party was doing exactly the same thing. It was pointing out all the areas in which it thought this bill was so deficient, but very quietly\u2014silently, in fact\u2014it has supported the Government. It has bowed down, done as it was told, and done what the National Government has told it to do, and it has allowed this bill to go through. It is amending legislation that ACT members such as Stephen Franks got up and spoke so vehemently against when it was first mooted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EAs we have said throughout the night, this bill is a nothing bill. It is quite innocuous and it really does nothing harmful, so Labour is happy to support it. But we have been asking all night why the Government is so quiet. Why is the Government so quiet? It is because it was not prepared to tell the New Zealand public just how much it misled them and how much of a U-turn this is. That is why this Government will never be the Government that puts victims\u2019 rights at the centre of its policy. It has no ideas on victims\u2019 rights. All it can do is regurgitate the ideas of the previous Labour Government that National thought were so bad when it was in Opposition. We are happy to see this bill go through, but this Government has been found out tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002283a5a7d2b4644f6cb343507fbba9e5ba\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Prisoners\u2019 and Victims\u2019 Claims (Expiry and Application Dates) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 108\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 14\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022479b2dcab8bb422183bca3ebaf213143\u0022\u003ETariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225033cdc0590c40b49d25e191aab0ae53\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001043\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 2 June.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022791a988edc424926b0647d8346888800\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022791a988edc424926b0647d8346888800\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership) Amendment Bill provides the legislative framework for what is essentially a free-trade agreement with Hong Kong, but it also rationalises the approach between Hong Kong and China. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand - Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement will allow businesses from New Zealand and those New Zealand businesses that are currently in Hong Kong to move freely and without any impediment by regulation or legislation between Hong Kong and China and between Hong Kong and New Zealand. In other words, this agreement provides part of what will be a seamless network, I think, of free-trade apparatus that allows New Zealand business interests to springboard out of Hong Kong and into China, because the conditions surrounding that export trade have been rationalised and evened out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThis is a significant move not only in the export of goods but also particularly in the export of services. In this respect, some high-tech industries already have a foothold in Hong Kong. These industries are New Zealand - owned and operated and are being run out of Hong Kong, and I think particularly of some high-tech industries that are based in Tauranga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u00223a4545b95aa641b1b385e02d2f475cc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a4545b95aa641b1b385e02d2f475cc6\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E I thought that I might quickly traverse for the benefit of \u201CDr No Man\u201D some of the issues relating to the importance of China. In 15 years\u2019 time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bbf04f7fdcc461fa422c7b1565313f2\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member Mr Hayes referred to the leader of another party by a name that is not that member\u2019s name. He made a comment about another member and pronounced his name in a way that was clearly intended to deride that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbe8768262cf42ffb9fe4539322d5c7f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I recall the name, but I did not quite get the significance of whom Mr Hayes was referring to. I was confused about that, myself. If Mr Hayes made reference with an inappropriate name to a person then I ask the member to withdraw and apologise. If he did not, I accept his word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232422e2a8cde40e7a79d6d54f3da7c89\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: I did not notice myself doing it, but I will withdraw and apologise to remove any doubt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EIn 15 years\u2019 time, in 2025, with 1.5 billion people China will be the world\u2019s second-ranking economic power. At its present growth rate its GDP will outstrip that of Japan in 5 years\u2019 time, in 2015. It will outstrip that of America in 30 years\u2019 time, in 2040. Its share of world GDP, currently 4.5 percent, will rise to 7 percent in 2015 and will be close to 15 percent in 15 years\u2019 time, in 2025. China\u2019s average standard of living should be, by 2050, half that of America\u2019s standard of living, and even if China\u2019s average growth rate is half that of today, it will have a per capita income of US$6,000. Hundreds of millions of Chinese will, by then, belong to the middle class, and tens of millions will belong to its upper class. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EWe can expect China to continue to finance US deficit for some years to come. We can expect China to become the leading investor in Asia, ahead of Japan and the United States. Despite the efforts of the Communist Party of China, it will eventually have to pass power to elected officials. Unless there are reforms China will have to face many difficulties. Ninety percent of Chinese people have no retirement plan or health insurance. Half the urban people and fourth-fifths of rural people have no access to health care. Half of China\u2019s 500 biggest cities lack drinkable water and sewerage systems. China will have to build urban infrastructure, fight corruption and put a stop to corruption in public finance areas, find work for hundreds of millions of people flowing into towns, improve education, reduce income gaps, train managers, reform an obsolete public sector, and establish judicial systems capable of protecting private and intellectual property. By 2025 the Communist Party of China will have been in power for 76 years. No other political party in the world has lasted in power for more than 70 years. We can expect it to fade in importance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003ETo the west, India has 1.4 billion people. It should be the most populous nation on the earth by 2025 and the third-ranking economic power after America and China. I was at the launch of the Wellington chapter of the India New Zealand Business Council earlier this week. The Indian High Commissioner at the meeting talked about India having 9 percent compound GDP growth for the next 20 years. India\u2019s democracy will have to meet and deal with very similar challenges to those facing China. These developments will result in a doubling of urban populations within 10 years\u2014that is, 2025\u2014and a doubling of the demand for raw materials. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EAgainst this global background, we must position New Zealand to place our trading relationships on an open and secure footing. New Zealand companies will want to market produce and also services into China. We must ensure certain access to the Chinese markets and to the Hong Kong markets to allow the export of services, because our companies can benefit from liberalisation of both the Hong Kong and the Chinese markets. These are the key reasons behind New Zealand entering into the New Zealand - Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement. We want secure, more certain access to the Hong Kong services market, and we want to ensure that New Zealand service providers benefit from future liberalisation by Hong Kong in particular sectors. We want to enable traders to benefit from trade-facilitating rules of origin, accompanied by robust verification systems. We want to provide a framework for regulatory cooperation and consultation, and we want to allow for more effective discussion and cooperation on labour and environmental matters in line with New Zealand\u2019s sustainable development and economic growth objectives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EWith those few words, I commend the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022e64bfc12e6be4c2ebce2884b4bc80ce6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e64bfc12e6be4c2ebce2884b4bc80ce6\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to speak in support of the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill\u2014quite a long name. The reason I support the bill is it will, hopefully, lead to increased opportunities for New Zealand exporters in the Hong Kong market as well strengthening our relationships in the Asian region in general. Closer economic partnerships, or CEPs\u2014trade is full of these acronyms\u2014are a vital part of New Zealand\u2019s economic development policy as they work to break down tariff, quota, and customs duties, which restrict access and profitability for New Zealand exporters and importers. They tend to lead to increased exports and imports and have the potential to add wealth to both countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ENew Zealand signed a closer economic partnership with Hong Kong on 29 March 2010. This bill implements that agreement. The closer economic partnership agreement had its roots in the work of a former Minister of Trade, Jim Sutton, and the next elected Prime Minister of New Zealand, the Hon Phil Goff, during his tenure as Minister of Trade. Whilst we tip our hats to Mr Groser for getting this bill across the finishing line, I think that even he would admit that it is a result of the work of his predecessors, and we must recognise the efforts of those who worked on this issue in the past to get it to this point. Trade is one of those wonderful areas where we all work together when it comes to securing the national interest. How to grow trade is the real challenge, which the National Government does not seem to get, as is evidenced by the latest Budget. However, that is a story for another day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESo what are we talking about when we debate the closer economic partnership with Hong Kong? Well, Hong Kong is currently our ninth-largest export destination, accounting for $823 million last year. New Zealand imported $199 million of merchandise goods from Hong Kong last year, making it the 31st-largest source of imported goods. However, to put it into perspective, Hong Kong counts for only 1.9 percent of New Zealand\u2019s total exported goods and 0.04 percent of our total imported goods. Herein lies the challenge for this economy going forward. Our ninth-largest export destination accounts for only 1.9 percent of New Zealand\u2019s total exported goods. If there is ever a case for global diversification then those figures are it. There is a very strong argument for this type of free-trade agreement. It puts potential trading partners on the map and on the radar of New Zealand Trade and Enterprise as well as potential exporters. Despite Hong Kong\u2019s small size it is a market that is already rapidly expanding, with last year\u2019s total exports increasing by 33.6 percent compared with 2008. However, total imported goods declined by 2.5 percent last year compared with 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWhat sort of things do we export to Hong Kong? We export about $200 million worth of crustaceans to Hong Kong. The area of largest growth is apples, which is good for the people of Hawke\u2019s Bay, considering that it is the fruit bowl of this country. Other things that increased were milk powder and venison. Frozen meat and frozen beef were second and third in terms of export value. Milk powder exports had dropped, which I was interested to see, and cheese had dropped. But some interesting products are exported there, and we are doing quite well. In terms of imports, the largest area of imports is machinery parts, which accounted for about $16 million, but it dropped by 15 percent. The area that increased by 217 percent was printing machinery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab416a4ddd2c4e5f95b329301d735996\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af8081c001ef46caa54245e7c33ad3e3\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I suspect there were one or two capital purchases but I am not too sure. Insecticide imports were worth $4 million. They increased by about 400 percent. Believe it or not, spectacle imports increased by 118 percent. Some of the guys on the benches opposite need some spectacles from Hong Kong, because they see the world through rose-coloured spectacles and do not understand reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232f96878a93d4543a940cb09c80805fa\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: They need rear-vision mirrors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a61febc95a2b49a1814e25eebd189f83\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. But Hong Kong not only is an important market in its own right, as outlined a couple of minutes ago, but provides a vital foothold for New Zealand businesses wanting to expand into the much larger Chinese market. Building closer economic relationships with Asia is vital to New Zealand\u2019s future economic prosperity, because it is the major market of the future. This closer economic partnership is another step in that direction. So hats off to Jim Sutton and Phil Goff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAlthough free-trade agreements and closer economic partnerships come with undoubted benefits, we must not ignore that for some businesses and sectors they can potentially cause harm. This closer economic partnership has been evaluated as having a low negative impact on New Zealand business, largely because Hong Kong specialises in services rather than cheap manufactured goods that could undercut local businesses. New Zealand manufacturers of footwear, textiles, etc. are most at risk from free-trade agreements and closer economic partnerships, and this closer economic partnership has given those sectors the longest phase-out period of tariffs to allow them time to adjust.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWe also need to be aware that fiscal costs are associated with this sort of agreement, and they need to be fully understood to ensure that they are outweighed by the benefits. As with any free-trade agreement that results in a reduction in tariffs, there will be lost tariff revenue. In 2008-09 the estimated tariff revenue collected on imports from Hong Kong was around $4 million. This will be phased out by 2016; no revenue will be collected from Hong Kong imports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI would like to outline some of the advantages of the closer economic partnership agreement. Although Hong Kong already offers duty-free imports for all countries, the closer economic partnership will ensure New Zealand\u2019s existing duty-free access is locked in for New Zealand exports, giving New Zealand exporters added certainty that competitors other than Mainland China do not enjoy. The phase-out of certain remaining domestic duties may also reduce some costs for New Zealand producers who use imported Hong Kong components or capital equipment\u2014for instance, components or equipment relating to electrical transformers, whiteware, and steel products. It is interesting to note that one of our largest exports is recycled plastic. Obviously, Hong Kong turns it into added-value products and brings them back here; it is a pity we cannot do it here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe closer economic partnership provides New Zealand with the early harvest of most of Hong Kong\u2019s Doha service commitments\u2014that is, Hong Kong is offering New Zealand through the closer economic partnership most of what it is offering the World Trade Organization membership in the yet to be concluded Doha negotiations. The commitments that Hong Kong makes to New Zealand in the closer economic partnership address service sectors of key export interest to New Zealand, including education, business, environmental, and logistic services. New Zealand service exporters have also secured strong future-proofing of their position in the Hong Kong market through the most favoured nation treatment and a ratchet clause. Most favoured nation treatment means that New Zealand exports will automatically benefit from any preferential treatment that Hong Kong provides to future free-trade agreement partners, subject to certain reservations and exceptions. The ratchet clause means that any future unilateral liberalisation undertaken by Hong Kong in certain sectors will be bound and committed to New Zealand. We do not lose; we cannot lose. New Zealand will be using the tariff reduction schedule in the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement\u2014which was also negotiated by the Hon Phil Goff\u2014for imported products from Hong Kong. As I already mentioned, the longest tariff phase-out periods will apply to industry sectors in New Zealand that are particularly sensitive to potential imports from Hong Kong, such as textiles, clothing, and footwear. Delayed tariff phase-outs will apply to other products such as steel, furniture, plastics, and rubber products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI will very quickly go through some of New Zealand\u2019s legal obligations under the closer economic partnership. These include tariff reduction phasing-out identical to that provided to China; market access and national treatment commitments to Hong Kong service providers similar to those provided in the P4 agreement\u2014which is an agreement between New Zealand, Brunei, Chile, and Singapore\u2014along with some elements provided in other recent free-trade agreements and a few commitments drawn down from New Zealand\u2019s Doha offer, all within domestic policy settings, of course; a reciprocal commitment to extend most favoured nation treatment to Hong Kong in relation to services, subject to specified reservations; doubling the overseas screening regime threshold from existing World Trade Organization levels of $10 million to $20 million; a commitment not to take trade remedy actions in an arbitrary or protectionist manner, and to carry out trade remedy actions in a transparent manner; specific rules of origin to accommodate part-processing of certain clothing products in Mainland China, with robust verification procedures to mitigate any risks from this approach; and commitments on temporary entry of Hong Kong business visitors that go beyond New Zealand\u2019s existing World Trade Organization commitments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill. It is a cross-party bill; we will all support it. I think it will benefit New Zealand, and for that reason I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u00224ce41c0f832541948e322d61a5acffda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ce41c0f832541948e322d61a5acffda\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E With respect to the previous speaker, Stuart Nash\u2014and I do have respect\u2014I say that he is incorrect. This party will not be supporting the proposed Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill. On 30 March the Minister of Trade, Tim Groser, signed the New Zealand - Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement. He said at the time that it was \u201Ca significant achievement that further strengthens the economic links between New Zealand and the Asia-Pacific region.\u201D He said that it complements the existing free-trade agreement with China. Given Hong Kong\u2019s position as a regional trading and investment hub, he said that it would support business engagement with Asia and the Pacific. He recalled the 43 percent increase in exports to China in the last 12 months, which brought in an extra $1 billion worth of export income, and he said that the agreement would add \u201Cto a growing collection of high quality and comprehensive FTAs in the region.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EWe know all about high-quality, comprehensive free-trade agreements. A veritable raft of free-trade agreements have come down the track over the last 2 or 3 years, as a syndrome of a failed global World Trade Organization agreement that is better known as the \u201Cspaghetti bowl\u201D or, to give it an Asian flavour, \u201Cnoodle soup\u201D. We have free-trade agreements with Thailand, Singapore, ASEAN, China, Malaysia, and now Hong Kong. We shall have the Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership\u2014the TPP\u2014and we will have Korea, India, and the Gulf States. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EI have scrutinised the national interest analysis of each one of these six Asian free-trade agreements. Essentially, they amount to a template. The wording is essentially the same. The reasoning is the same. The underlying beliefs are the same. All that has been changed by officials is simply the names of the countries, pretty much, and little more. That is not, I think, a genuine analysis. Analysis requires objectivity; it requires intellectual rigour. There is none of that in these documents. These documents are more of a credo\u2014let us call it the \u201CFree Traders\u2019 Creed\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ELet us look at the template. There are essentially 10 sections or so. Let us look at the first two sections. The first is the reasons for becoming a party; the second is the advantages and disadvantages of free-trade agreements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ELet us explore the advantages. Almost without exception there are generally about 10 bullet points lined up, and usually nine or 10 out of the 10 pertain to export interests. Let us look at the disadvantages. The disadvantage will even take the form of a lament that the other side was too timid with our exports. I quote the ASEAN agreement national interest analysis: \u201CA more ambitious outcome on the elimination of tariffs was preferred, but was simply was not possible.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EOccasionally\u2014just occasionally\u2014there is an opaque reference to imports, and to the effect of imports on New Zealand. The phraseology used is \u201Cnegative adjustment effects\u201D, which, basically, is a euphemism for company collapse and job loss. I will quote from a few. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThis is from the ASEAN analysis: \u201CThe removal of tariffs on products imported into New Zealand can result in negative adjustment effects for import-competing sectors. AANZFTA does, however, attempt to mitigate these impacts by delaying tariff elimination on imports of acute sensitivity to particular New Zealand industries.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThis is from the analysis of the agreement with China: \u201CThe removal of New Zealand\u2019s tariffs on imported Chinese products can create adjustment effects for import competing sectors. The FTA attempts to mitigate these effects with various protections,\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThe analysis of the agreement with Malaysia states: \u201CAny trade agreement involving reciprocal tariff removal may have implications for domestic producers as a result of increased exposure to foreign suppliers. In order to mitigate the potential for any negative adjustment effects in New Zealand, the [agreement] includes longer phase-out periods for imports in sensitive sectors in New Zealand relative to other sectors of the economy.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThe analysis in the Hong Kong agreement states: \u201CAny trade agreement involving reciprocal tariff removal while providing better access for exporters, can create adjustment costs for domestic producers.\u201D These are euphemisms, used in the national interest analysis, for company failure and job losses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ELet me give this challenge to this Government, as we prepare for an analysis of the Hong Kong agreement and further readings of the bill in this House. I challenge the Government in the Hong Kong agreement, if not the previous agreements, and if not the Malaysian agreement, all future free-trade agreements, to name the New Zealand companies that will face negative adjustment effects, to estimate the loss of income they will suffer, to estimate the loss of jobs that this will incur for New Zealanders, to be a little more intellectually honest in the national interest analysis, to show a little more moral integrity, and to show a little more political courage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u0022df5dbdfe8ad94eada35cda81390d4ee6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df5dbdfe8ad94eada35cda81390d4ee6\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E This is probably not the best time to be considering a bilateral trade agreement between New Zealand and Hong Kong. If we were to ask Hong Kong - based Natural Dairy (NZ) Holdings about its perspectives on the viability of the New Zealand - Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement, it would probably raise the context of the $100 million deal it was attempting to seal with the bid to purchase the 16 New Zealand farms formerly owned by the Crafar family. The receivers handling the sale of the farms had already signed a sale agreement with Natural Dairy (NZ) Holdings, conditional on our Overseas Investment Office approving their application. Suddenly, out of the blue, Landcorp chairman Jim Sutton suggested it might put in a tender, because of the reputational risks to the New Zealand dairy industry and New Zealand Inc. He referred also to concerns in the wider community about the sale. We in the M\u0101ori Party have raised particular concerns around one of the Crafar farms, which is part of the Maraeroa A and B blocks over which Ng\u0101ti Rereahu has a settlement interest. The 16 farms are located in the Waikato, the King Country, the Bay of Plenty, Whanganui, Taranaki, and Rangit\u012Bkei. Other iwi with significant interests yet to be settled may well be watching the events unfold with great interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe next turn of events for the Hong Kong - based company was that the Minister of Agriculture, David Carter, stepped into the ring, saying that a sale to that company was unlikely to go through. The Prime Minister publicly censured his freethinking Minister, but the damage had been done. I remind the House that this company had already signed a conditional purchase contract for the farms. It is no wonder that Natural Dairy (NZ) Holdings now says Landcorp\u2019s interests look like the result of political interference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EI thought that the Crafar farms context would be a very relevant setting in which to consider the environment for a free-trade agreement with Hong Kong. It underlines the range of interests that the Government must consider when we look at the prospect of trade with overseas jurisdictions. The Hong Kong - based company Natural Dairy (NZ) Holdings was also involved in the separate purchase of farms in February this year at Norsewood in southern Hawke\u2019s Bay, Wait\u014Dtara in South Taranaki, and the Manawat\u016B. That purchase is now under investigation by the Overseas Investment Office, which is questioning whether the required consents were in place. This action led company director May Wang to retort: \u201CThe plain fact is if New Zealand does not welcome the investment it is inevitable the company will take its $1.5 billion to another dairying nation that does want it.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003ENone of this is the greatest public relations for the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill, which we are debating tonight, but it provides us with an opportunity to address some of the longstanding concerns that the M\u0101ori Party has raised in the past about the nature of free-trade agreements in general. We have raised concerns that although free-trade agreements are established to protect investors and their investments, they have the potential to threaten our own domestic programme, raising concerns for Treaty settlements between M\u0101ori and the Crown. In the case of the 16 farms formerly owned by the Crafar family, it should be noted that they employed nearly 200 staff on 8,000 hectares. Our concern, then, with free-trade agreements is to always consider how such relationships impact on the long-term prosperity of workers here in our land. We hope that if such an arrangement was to take place with a Hong Kong company following the passing of this bill, the local mana whenua would be approached with a view to working together collaboratively on employment opportunities that might arise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe Crafar farms issue has raised some concerns around this agreement, but also I bring to the House the very real value that M\u0101ori businesses have talked to us about of having the opportunity to go out and explore international economies. There has been a growing interest from M\u0101ori businesses and from iwi leaders in being able to have access to the international market. I was interested to read some of the comments from Te H\u014Dripo Karaitiana, who is chair of the Awatoru M\u0101ori economic transformation initiative and a director of a successful M\u0101ori agribusiness, with activities in Aotearoa and overseas. Te H\u014Dripo recently participated in the Food and Agribusiness Market Experience programme, studying global food value chains, and has shared his enthusiasm for working to expand opportunities from the China closer economic partnership agreement. If we consider that the majority of the M\u0101ori asset base is in the primary industries\u2014seafood, forestry, and farming\u2014we see that they all have major implications for how we operate in the international arena. It is Te H\u014Dripo\u2019s experience that M\u0101ori involved in the primary industries should look upon trade with the Asian economy as an opportunity to participate in the value chain, rather than remaining at the production or farm-gate end. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EA classic example is that provided by Patrick W\u0101tene of Ng\u0101ti Tamater\u0101 Hauraki, who is the founder and executive director of Global Horticulture (Xi\u2019an) Ltd, which specialises in horticultural consultancy and bare-land orchard development. Based in China, GlobalHort provides expertise in value-adding through an integrated value chain from orchard to market. It was because of the example provided by the range of M\u0101ori businesses already developed in the Asian economy that in this year\u2019s Budget the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs announced investment in developing a Brand M\u0101ori to gain premium prices for M\u0101ori-produced goods exported to niche markets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThere was also investment in a delegation of M\u0101ori business leaders heading over to the World Expo in Shanghai in September. The key purpose of the delegation will be to help M\u0101ori businesses enter growth industries to increase M\u0101ori exports and to increase the profile of M\u0101ori tourism experiences with overseas providers and visitors. This is really important not just for relationships with China and Hong Kong but for the wider growth of the M\u0101ori economy. M\u0101ori economic development is important not only for M\u0101ori but for New Zealand\u2019s overall economic performance. M\u0101ori can represent a considerable source of future growth and, if they do, it is our view that M\u0101ori must take a lead role in determining their economic development aspirations and fostering development that works for them. Trade is all about building and sustaining relationships. M\u0101ori businesses have been telling us that they believe that the culture of Te Ao M\u0101ori connects and resonates particularly with places like Hong Kong, Shanghai, and Greater China. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party does not want to close the door on those opportunities. Although we acknowledge that there are a range of strongly held views that we ourselves have put forward about free-trade agreements in general, the reality is that M\u0101ori are already confidently and enthusiastically conducting business throughout the world. M\u0101ori businesses and all those who invest in them also deserve our support to benefit and develop the unique indigenous point of difference they contribute to business activities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThese are the two views that the M\u0101ori Party brings to this bill: fair trade and protection of our domestic programme, particularly the Treaty relationship, or encouragement of the development of a trading partnership based on dialogue, transparency, and respect\u2014a partnership that tangata whenua will also be able to benefit from. We look forward to hearing what the public has to say about this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022aaebfa34f7084fb69c00ee00c300d836\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aaebfa34f7084fb69c00ee00c300d836\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill. I note that Hong Kong is New Zealand\u2019s ninth-largest export destination and that New Zealand\u2019s trade with Hong Kong is currently worth $823 million a year. The first reading of this bill is indeed exciting for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI want to comment on the contribution of the previous speaker, Rahui Katene. I note that nothing in this free-trade agreement supersedes the provisions of the Overseas Investment Office, so the issue of the purchase of New Zealand dairy farms by Chinese companies is completely unrelated to the contents of this free-trade agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand farmers depend on trade, particularly sheep and beef farmers. For example, 90 percent of the Alliance Group\u2019s product coming out of freezing works up and down the South Island is exported, and a lot of it goes to Hong Kong and China. So this free-trade agreement is pretty crucial to the health of the New Zealand sheep and beef industry\u2014not to neglect our dairy industry, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThis free-trade agreement is all about boosting innovation in New Zealand and improving export access to world markets, which is one of the Government\u2019s key policy drivers for New Zealand\u2019s export performance. This closer economic partnership is Hong Kong\u2019s first free-trade agreement, aside from its closer economic partnership agreement with Mainland China, and that is pretty significant. The closer economic partnership also complements New Zealand\u2019s free-trade agreement with China, and enhances the potential for Hong Kong to be used as a platform for trade with Mainland China\u2014a point not lost on a speaker from across the House. That makes Hong Kong a strategically important trading partner for New Zealand\u2014as if we did not know that already. This deal will help New Zealand businesses boost trade with Hong Kong and take further advantage of growing opportunities for New Zealand in the region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI briefly note that the closer economic partnership will ensure that New Zealand\u2019s existing duty-free access is locked in by binding in place duty-free access for all New Zealand exports. The tariff reductions that New Zealand has provided Hong Kong with are the same tariff reductions in the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement. Tariffs are eliminated on 54 percent of exports upon the agreement\u2019s entry into force, and the remaining 46 percent will progressively become duty-free by 2016, which in export terms is not very long in the future. Longer tariff phase-out periods will apply for import-sensitive sectors such as textiles, clothing, and footwear, and also on products such as steel and furniture. It is also worth noting that the closer economic partnership provides for 48-hour customs clearance of New Zealand exports. An easing of those provisions will make trade more possible and more timely with both Hong Kong and Mainland China.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWith those few comments, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u00225d419848588247a2814a486ef95d7585\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d419848588247a2814a486ef95d7585\u0022\u003ESU\u2019A WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Deputy Speaker, may I greet you by saying \u201CNi hao ma.\u201D I think it is important on this occasion to greet you. I am laughing because my colleagues are making fun of my Chinese when I am trying to get into the mood of the occasion. I have never been to China, but I know many, many wonderful people out in Manukau who are of Chinese heritage and who give and contribute significantly to the local community in Manukau, and, no doubt, throughout this country. In fact, I have met a couple of mayors of Chinese heritage\u2014one in the area of Gisborne, who speaks M\u0101ori fluently, and the other in the South Island, who is from Dunedin or Christchurch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226123ad80f5164b8a9398736804099692\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Dunedin\u2014Peter Chin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c2c34c382d74acea35c1cae18ac92b6\u0022\u003ESU\u2019A WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: Dunedin. They are wonderful people and wonderful friends. Peter Chin showed me the Chinese garden in Dunedin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EWe are debating the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill, which is a mouthful. I know I have relatives who are of Chinese heritage. In fact, more recently there was the addition to our family, some years ago, of my sister-in-law\u2014although originally from China, she comes from Malaysia, and we will be talking about the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill later on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EIn the past 6 or 7 months, my office has been assisting a young man from Manukau who has a girlfriend living in Hong Kong and who has been attempting to bring her over here. For some reason, it has taken close to 7 months before agreement by our immigration authorities for her to receive a visa to be able to visit this young man in Manukau. I thought I would say those things by way of preface, as we debate this bill. As a young man I always wanted to go to China, and I wanted to be around Hong Kong. In fact, when Bruce Lee came out we all thought he was a relative. Nevertheless, I know that some members of this House are planning to go to China later on this year, or next month, particularly to the Shanghai Expo, which I understand is an expo that will probably be receiving many heads of State from throughout the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThis is a Government bill that has been introduced by the Hon Tim Groser, the Minister of Trade, and it is about a closer economic partnership agreement. Closer economic partnerships are a vital part of New Zealand\u2019s economic development policy. We in Labour are supporting this closer economic partnership because we believe it will provide increased opportunities and certainty for New Zealand exports to an important market. It is a market that will be very critical for the rest of the world simply because of the sheer size of its population, and with that population will come significant demands for goods\u2014food, in particular. It is also a market that is of concern in terms of other aspects, and I will get into that at a later stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ECloser economic partnerships lead to increased exports and imports, and the potential for added wealth to both countries. I understand that New Zealand signed this closer economic partnership with Hong Kong on 29 March, so this bill now implements that agreement. The bill amends the Tariff Act. That is part of the implementation of the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill. The amendments will enable the application of preferential tariff rates under the closer economic partnership. Not only is Hong Kong an important market in its own right, our ninth-largest export destination in 2009, but also it provides a vital foothold for New Zealand businesses expanding into the much larger Chinese market. With the number of New Zealand citizens of Chinese heritage living in this country, I think it bodes well that we are developing relationships not only on the human level but also on the business level and the cultural level. As I have always maintained, New Zealand is a much richer country by accepting that it is not just about business but about building on and developing people and relationships. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ENo doubt, these things, as I understand them, take time. The closer economic partnership agreement had its roots in the work of former trade Minister Jim Sutton, and it was reinvigorated by the Hon Phil Goff during his tenure as trade Minister. I think it is important that we recognise the efforts of those who have worked on this in the past to get us to this point. I suspect that we will see in the future the fruits of the work that Mr Tim Groser is doing as Minister of Trade\u2014or maybe we will see no fruit, whatever the case may be. The point I am making is that often working towards signing these trade agreements takes some time. It takes some work on people relationships, because if we are not able to build trust, how can we trade? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EFrom Labour\u2019s perspective, we welcome this bill and the closer economic partnership, as it further develops our already close relationship with the people and Government of Hong Kong. It is important from our perspective that we build closer economic relationships with Asia, as that is a vital market for New Zealand\u2019s future economic prosperity, and will be a major market in the future, as I have said. This closer economic partnership is another step in that direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI listened to the Green members, and they raised some concerns that I think are fair enough. Although free-trade agreements and closer economic partnerships come with undoubted benefits, we cannot ignore the fact that for some businesses and sectors, free-trade agreements and closer economic partnerships can cause harm. This closer economic partnership has been evaluated as having a low negative impact on New Zealand businesses, largely because Hong Kong specialises in services rather than cheap manufactured goods, which could undercut some of our local businesses. New Zealand manufacturers of footwear, textiles, etc. are most at risk from free-trade agreements. This closer economic partnership has given those sectors the longest tariff phase-out period in order to allow them time to adjust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ELabour rights and environmental sustainability are core New Zealand values, which should not be sacrificed for the sake of increased trade, so when we are undertaking negotiations they need to be high on the agenda. I understand that we are supporting this closer economic partnership because it enhances labour rights and environmental sustainability. The closer economic partnership contains an environment agreement, with shared objectives between New Zealand and Hong Kong aimed at improving the environment and enhancing the capacity and capability of each country\u2019s Government agencies, research organisations, academic institutions, and businesses to address trade and environmental matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EFinally, the national interest analysis states that the closer economic partnership is \u201Cnot expected to have any negative effects on the environment in New Zealand that cannot be managed using existing policy frameworks. Its provisions may encourage improved productivity in the use of natural resources.\u201D The concern that I raise initially really has to do with our customs portfolio. Our country has been working quite strongly to ensure that we detect illegal drugs crossing our borders, and I think there will be others who have some concern about that. When we enter into these relationships, I think it is to the benefit of our country that we develop them slowly and that we ensure that laws are in place to implement and enhance them, but I think we also need to be letting the rest of the world, particularly our partners, know that we have certain core values here that we respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff36b06ac3864c1ebfbb0fd3ca44682f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff36b06ac3864c1ebfbb0fd3ca44682f\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me pleasure to rise to speak on the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill. Trade agreements are very much about building relationships, and I was thinking a moment ago that it is a good thing for our country that this is an economic partnership with Hong Kong and not England. I congratulate the New Zealand M\u0101ori on beating England tonight. The score was 35-28, which was a great victory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ca6f0e45c1940a1ad502d2d96ec39a4\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Were you there in Rotorua? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240ccb89c5a3041c697739556eceb303b\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I was in Rotorua last week, when they beat the Welsh, but, no, I was here in Parliament working hard on behalf of my constituents when they won this evening. It is a great victory for them. Therefore, it is a good thing that we are not debating an agreement with England, because that good relationship has been ruined for another week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI will touch on a couple of points that are important, but first I will recognise what S\u2019ua William Sio said earlier on the importance of China as a nation with a large number of consumers who are increasing their income. Mr Sio said that when he was younger, he thought that Bruce Lee was a cousin or a relation. I am reliably informed that Bruce Lee also thought that Mr Sio was a relation, although one who had done a little less exercise than he had. But I agree with everything Mr Sio said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThis agreement, as with the other trade agreements that have been brought before this House since we came into Government, is about boosting innovation and improving export access to world markets. It is one of the National Government\u2019s six policy drivers for a step change in New Zealand\u2019s economic performance. This agreement with Hong Kong is an important part of National\u2019s focus on free trade and on improving access for our exporters to world markets, which is a priority included in the Prime Minister\u2019s statement to Parliament in February of this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIn my electorate of Rotorua a number of producers, primarily in the primary sector, will benefit from this agreement when it enters into force. There are some opportunities in forestry, but certainly there are opportunities in the production of kiwifruit, agricultural products, dairy products, sheep and beef, and so on. Currently, we have $823 million worth of trade a year between New Zealand and Hong Kong, and we can expect that amount of trade to increase when this agreement enters into force. It will increase to the betterment of our producers, which will be a very good thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe bill enhances our economic integration with the Asian region, and it follows from a great number of other free-trade agreements that have been put into place since we have come into Government: agreements with Thailand, Singapore, and China have come into force, there is an agreement with the ASEAN countries, and agreements with Malaysia and Brunei as well. That is very good for New Zealand producers, and I know that everybody but a few in this House support those fully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269bddba7305a452db06b5218c1a5c41b\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: All your own work. Come on\u2014a little bit of graciousness across the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c141d8696f7a4d9190d4a3d9c644c85e\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I do recognise, as graciously as I can, that members opposite played a small part in this work, and we thank them for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI will also touch on a point made by Rahui Katene about the involvement that this agreement might have in the future with Chinese companies and others that will want to come and invest in New Zealand. The closer economic partnership does not provide Hong Kong investors with preferential access to the New Zealand investment screening regime. As with any other company or person in the world wanting to invest in New Zealand, very strict and stringent procedures are in place, and they will apply under this agreement as they do to others. I think it is important that we recognise that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThis bill is a very good piece of work. I look forward to its referral to the select committee tomorrow morning, and I look forward to supporting it further. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226df051b6de4c4f87b220c93d807f3b3a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 111\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 43; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 3 (Flavell, Sharples, Turia); Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 2 (Harawira, Katene).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u00226ce0455c13cd48acb263596a05229921\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ce0455c13cd48acb263596a05229921\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Minister of Immigration)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Trade: I move, That the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee consider the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill, that the committee report finally to the House on or before 29 July 2010, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 187 and 190(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226d3303e3f70c481da55e2f98d872af1f\u0022\u003ETariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a6ced6f211a4b89ac57608e4cb886c4\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2f49e2373c34dc19c0e7339cffa6aef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2f49e2373c34dc19c0e7339cffa6aef\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Minister of Immigration)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Trade: I move, That the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d9b6622eec544d097701c1cd6d604a7\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CI would like to thank the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225182085ee52d4e25bed9a0c013724862\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN\u003C/span\u003E: The member has been listening! I thank the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee for its consideration of the bill, and for reporting the bill back to the House. The committee\u2019s recommendation is that the bill be passed with no amendments. As the committee noted in its report, the Malaysia - New Zealand Free Trade Agreement will serve to benefit New Zealand merchandise exporters that target Malaysia, as well as provide new opportunities for service providers, particularly in the areas of educational, environmental, and engineering services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EMalaysia is already our tenth-largest trading partner. Two-way trade between our countries is now approaching $2 billion, and the trajectories are all in the right direction. Over the last 4 years goods exports to Malaysia have grown by over 50 percent. This free-trade agreement therefore comes at just the right time to give our exporters a chance to consolidate their positions within a priority market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EOn day one of this agreement entering into force, approximately 95 percent of New Zealand\u2019s merchandise exports to Malaysia will immediately be duty-free. This is a terrific head start for our companies competing in Malaysia against firms from Europe, the United States, Latin America, and even Australia. And it will get better for New Zealand companies; by 2016, 99.5 percent of our exports will be duty-free, which will be 5 years earlier than the time secured under the free-trade agreement concluded by Australia and New Zealand with the 10 economies of the Association of South-east Asian Nations, or ASEAN. That free-trade agreement is already a high-quality and comprehensive free-trade agreement. It placed New Zealand and Australia ahead of the queue of ASEAN\u2019s other free-trade agreement partners, including Japan, Korea, China, and India, let alone those who have yet to negotiate a free-trade agreement, like the European Union and the United States.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe elimination of tariffs is just one part of the story. The enhanced rules of origin negotiated in the Malaysia free-trade agreement will encourage Malaysian producers to make greater use of New Zealand products for imports and manufacturing. This will benefit a whole range of small and medium sized enterprises producing what are known as intermediate goods. Recent OECD research has shown that 56 percent of overall goods trade flows are in intermediate products. This is the way that modern trade is done. That is recognised in the rules of origin provisions in modern free-trade agreements, including the one we are considering today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThis free-trade agreement is not just about eliminating barriers to the export of New Zealand products. Trade in services is an increasingly important element of New Zealand\u2019s trade profile, particularly in the case of Malaysia, where areas such as information and computer technology and engineering are expected to grow over time. Education in particular is an area of growth potential, with growth of over 70 percent in fee-paying Malaysian students studying in New Zealand between 2003 and 2008. New Zealand delivers high-quality education services, including training, literacy programmes for schoolchildren, and so on, across the Internet and in-country in Malaysia. This free-trade agreement ensures that this trade is now protected and secure from Government intervention, which might have wanted to limit or prevent that access.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EBetter still, and in addition to all these upfront benefits for New Zealand, this agreement has been future-proofed. Specifically, most favoured nation treatment in key sectors of commercial interest has been secured for New Zealand service suppliers. This means that if any future free-trade agreement partner with Malaysia is able to negotiate benefits that improve on what New Zealand has gained in a range of services, sectors, and investment, we will automatically get the same benefits. If we combine that with our first-mover advantage of having preferential access for our exporters immediately, members can see that this agreement is a very strong outcome for New Zealand business that sets us up well for the future in Malaysia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EAs with previous free-trade agreements that New Zealand has entered into, the Malaysia free-trade agreement protects New Zealand\u2019s most import-sensitive industries. New Zealand has left the elimination of existing tariff protection for its most import-sensitive industries to the end of the tariff phase-out, in 2016. That is exactly the same date at which Malaysia will eliminate its tariffs on New Zealand products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe minority view in the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee report questions the effects of the investment provisions of free-trade agreements on the New Zealand economy. Increasingly, New Zealand investors are looking to countries like Malaysia to enhance their global competitiveness. It is not surprising, therefore, that between 2003 and 2008 New Zealand\u2019s total stock of investment in Malaysia increased by 77 percent. Our investors need to be sure that their investments will be satisfactorily protected. This free-trade agreement delivers that by offering additional and improved protections for New Zealand investors and their investments in Malaysia. In this way, the agreement protects a New Zealand company\u2019s ability to transfer its profits, protect itself from expropriation, and be assured of fair and equitable treatment\u2014all of which are supported by a robust, effective, and legally binding dispute settlement mechanism. For its part, New Zealand in respect of inwards investment from Malaysia has retained the flexibility to continue to apply the existing Overseas Investment Act and regulations, regardless of the origin of any prospective investor. In other words, the current investment screening regime in New Zealand continues to apply to prospective investors from Malaysia. This free-trade agreement has not changed the Overseas Investment Act in any way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe Malaysia free-trade agreement is expected to have a positive effect on exports, gross domestic product, and employment in New Zealand, including in the manufacturing sector. The reality is that improving market access for New Zealand firms through a progressive trade agenda that includes free-trade agreements like this agreement ensures that we continue to stimulate economic growth, and helps to safeguard the jobs of the many thousands of New Zealanders who work in or support export-oriented industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe bill amends New Zealand\u2019s domestic legislation so that the Malaysia free-trade agreement can be brought into force. The bill amends the Tariff Act 1988 in order to implement preferential tariff rates on imported goods from Malaysia, and to enable transitional safeguard measures to be applied in appropriate circumstances on such imports. The Government would like to see the bill enacted on 24 June 2010, so that New Zealand can be ready to bring the Malaysia free-trade agreement into force on 1 August 2010. This will ensure that New Zealand business can benefit as soon as possible from this new addition to our free-trade agreement stable. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2dde4eb2ddf4bb5ab49776621813a51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2dde4eb2ddf4bb5ab49776621813a51\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill. I have prepared a substantial speech about the detail of the agreement, but I will pick up a couple of comments made by previous speakers on the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill. They are apposite to any free-trade agreement. In fact, the Green Party member Kennedy Graham made a point of referring to a template for free-trade agreements. He said that the language was the same, the structure was the same, and the underlying premises were the same, and, therefore, the Green Party had the same criticisms of each one of these bills. In fact, there is a Green Party minority report in the select committee report back to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI will pick up on some good points Kennedy Graham made in respect of those matters. It may be to do with the lateness of the hour\u2014I am not sure\u2014but in departing from what I had prepared to say, I commend him for bringing those issues to the House. Similarly, I commend the M\u0101ori Party member who spoke, Rahui Katene, for reminding us of other issues that impact on our free-trade agreements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ELife is complex, and we try to pursue our way in the world, achieving the best we can for New Zealand\u2019s interests, but not at the expense of others and not at the expense of any of our own. There are often issues that conflict and that people consider to be mutually exclusive propositions, like free trade and human rights, or free trade and indigenous industry. We in the Labour Party have promoted free trade for a long time, but not at all costs. The gradual movement over time to include, for example, labour and environment side clauses, as we see in the Malaysian free-trade agreement, are important, and they will improve over time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the concerns that Kennedy Graham raised about the national interest analysis apropos of the New Zealand - Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement, and I relate them to the Malaysia - New Zealand Free Trade Agreement. I think there is a point to be made about the need for an honest appraisal in the national interest analysis of any negatives to New Zealand. I for one would be keen to see more open processes around our trade negotiations so that there might be some robust and public consideration, even more robust and public than we have at the moment. That process surrounds this House. The free-trade agreement should be referred to the select committee because it needs to be ratified in law, and the public would then have a chance to speak on it and to contribute to the discussion about it. Yet usually only a very few people are interested and wish to participate. I wonder whether making that process broader would get more input, closer analysis, greater justification, and perhaps even more care about indigenous or New Zealand industries and the impact of free-trade agreements on them. That is all for the future, but it is something I think we need to take care of; I acknowledge the points that the Green Party made in that respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EIt still remains that this is a high-quality free-trade agreement. If one compares it with the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Agreement, one sees very clearly that it moves further and faster than that agreement. For example, under the Malaysia - New Zealand Free Trade Agreement this year, at the point of implementation, 95.1 percent of tariffs on New Zealand exports will be eliminated. Under the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Agreement that figure is 94.8, which is close but not quite as good. I could track the years of the Malaysian free-trade agreement, compare it with the ASEAN free-trade agreement, and demonstrate that it goes further faster so that by 2016, 99.5 percent of New Zealand exports to Malaysia will be tariff free. All tariffs will be eliminated. By that time only 98 percent of tariffs under the ASEAN free-trade agreement will have been eliminated. The remaining 0.5 percent under the Malaysian free-trade agreement is, in fact, wine and pork products, which have some religious and cultural prohibitions around them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EWhat do we export to Malaysia that will be so generously and helpfully affected? Well, 54 percent of what we export to Malaysia is dairy products. Another 10 percent is petroleum products, which is interesting because we import slightly more than that from Malaysia. In addition to that we export cereals, minerals, metals, wood, pulp, paper, furniture, meat, fruit, vegetables, and a few other things besides. How will each of these different sectors be affected? First, let us go to the immediate winner in this agreement. As soon as this legislation passes\u2014and it coincides with the passing of the same legislation in Malaysia\u2014the kiwifruit industry will experience a huge gain. Currently there is a 15 percent tariff on kiwifruit imports. Despite that tariff, I have to say, New Zealand exports of kiwifruit to Malaysia have grown by 123 percent in the last couple of years. But at the moment that this agreement comes into force, that 15 percent tariff drops to zero, and that means that a lot more earnings are retained in New Zealand. In 2010 other key export products are liberalised in addition to kiwifruit. These are butter, cheese, milk-powder, honey, wool, apples, and some manufactured products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ELet us look at some of these products. In respect of meat, wool, dairy, fish, and forestry we find that the Malaysian free-trade agreement confirms the outcome that is also arrived at in the ASEAN free-trade agreement, which is the interesting one of binding in existing duty-free access for New Zealand meat, wool, dairy, fish, and forestry product exports. This particular provision means that Malaysia cannot legally change this duty-free level of access for New Zealand exporters, although it can change it for others. That simply means that our exporters have a greater degree of certainty around their exports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EComing from Nelson, where all those primary products are in abundance\u2014whether we are talking about kiwifruit, meat, dairy products, fish, or forestry\u2014I know that this free-trade agreement will have a direct and immediate beneficial impact on those New Zealand industries. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed8a752d397043cda32d753d54eb0323\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed8a752d397043cda32d753d54eb0323\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the second reading debate on the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill. I will begin by thanking colleagues on the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee for the good work they do in a very collegial way. I refer particularly to Maryan Street, Pete Hodgson, and Keith Locke, and to my National colleagues, some of whom are in the House tonight. I also congratulate our Ministers Phil Goff and Tim Groser on leading the work that has been done, and while I am in a thank-you mode I also thank Vangelis Vitalis from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, who was the lead negotiator and who did an excellent job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EWhen I listened to the last speaker, Maryan Street, and my Green colleague speaking on the previous China free-trade agreement, I think the one thing that really demonstrates above all else that these agreements are worthwhile is the fact that in the year ended April 2010\u2014that is, 2 or 3 months ago\u2014the value of our export trade with China has increased by $860 million over that 12-month period. That is about the value of our total exports to Indonesia. So the free-trade agreement with China gave us, effectively, another market the size of Indonesia in 12 months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EWe will not get that with this Malaysian agreement, but that is because we are operating on a different scale. Malaysia has a slightly bigger land area than we do. We have similarities, as we were both British colonies. Malaysia has a population of about 28 million, whereas our population, of about 4.2 million, is probably smaller than that of greater Kuala Lumpur. Eighty-seven percent of the people in New Zealand live in urban communities, and the drift from rural areas to urban areas is growing at a rate of about 1 percent a year. In Malaysia about 70 percent of people live in towns and that rate of drift is about 3 percent a year. Important for the business community is the fact that both of us have legal systems based on English common law. There is quite a big difference in GDP per capita. New Zealand is sitting on around $28,000 per capita, growing at around 2 percent; Malaysia is sitting on $15,400 per capita, growing at about 4.6 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThere is another very interesting statistic, which is in relation to Internet users. Of Malaysia\u2019s population of 26 million people, 17 million are using the Internet. We have a rather smaller proportion of our population using the Internet\u20143 million people are using it. So the Malaysians are ranked for Internet usage at 22nd in the world; we are at 58th.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EI think that this legislation puts both economies in much more balance, but still we have one-sixth of Malaysia\u2019s population. When we considered this bill at the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee we came to the conclusion collectively that one of the reasons for signing this agreement was that all of us in this Parliament wanted to see a boosting of innovation and improved export access to world markets. It is those two things that will give us a step change in our own economic performance, and everybody will benefit from that. This agreement with Malaysia is a very important part of National\u2019s focus on free trade and improvement in access for our exporters to world markets. It was a priority included in the Prime Minister\u2019s statement to Parliament in February this year. Only by lifting economic performance can we create jobs, boost incomes, improve living standards, and provide world-class public services that our New Zealand families need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EWe heard about our trade figures from the previous speaker, and I reiterate that over the past 4 years the quantity of New Zealand goods exported to Malaysia has grown by more than 50 percent, making Malaysia New Zealand\u2019s tenth-largest trading partner. I think that those things will bode well for the future, but the real driver will hit the pockets of kiwifruit farmers. At the moment we are paying a 15 percent tariff on every kiwifruit exported into Malaysia; in 2012 that trade will become duty-free. Based on the most recent trade figures, our kiwifruit exports to Malaysia have grown by 173 percent since 2007. As my colleague Maryan Street said, meat, wool, dairy\u2014excluding liquid milk\u2014fish, and forestry products are bound in, so Malaysia cannot reapply tariffs on New Zealand\u2019s agricultural exports; that is very important to my electorate. Liquid milk has a significant improvement on in-quota duties, which will be eliminated, and in-quota volumes, which will increase by up to 5 percent a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThe Malaysian free-trade agreement includes an agreement to establish mechanisms that allow for the recognition of the equivalency of each other\u2019s qualifications. That will improve New Zealand\u2019s professional service suppliers\u2019 ability to deliver services in Malaysia\u2014that is, people like architects and insurance companies. New Zealand provides access duty-free for about 72 percent of imports from Malaysia, and under the free-trade agreement this will increase to 90.8 percent this year, graduating to 100 percent by 2016.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EOnly one area of the agreement, I felt, could have been more rigorously negotiated, and that was the area of company ownership. Any Malaysian company is allowed to buy 100 percent of a New Zealand company\u2014and Opus construction would be a very good example of that\u2014but the Malaysians have given us the capacity to buy only 70 percent of a Malaysian company. I think that as we look into the future and at other free-trade agreements, we could think about a greater principle of reciprocity, and that was something acknowledged by the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EWith those few words, I tell members that it is very pleasing to bring this legislation back to the House without any amendment; I commend it to the House for passing. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00222e7c7153b9d44462ae29cf490f19386e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e7c7153b9d44462ae29cf490f19386e\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Am I wrong? Have we just heard from the chair of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee? I know it is late and he is probably tired. It is probably past his bedtime, but, goodness me, that was the most lacklustre speech I have heard in this House for a long, long time. Jonathan Coleman is very lucky, because we thought his speech was bad, but then John Hayes stood up and Jonathan Coleman\u2019s speech looked fantastic. His speech was a piece of oratorical art, compared with that member. It was outstanding. John Hayes stood there; it was a long, low, cold, boring, quiet monologue about nothing. We try to listen to some of these speeches because some of these things are quite interesting. They are in the national interest. The Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill is good for New Zealand; it is great for New Zealand. It is not like some of the other bills. They are important, but this is good for New Zealand. It is good for trade and it is good for the economy. The chair of the select committee\u2014I think he was standing; it was hard to tell\u2014spoke in a low, quiet monotone. It was painful. Thank God that is over! Thank God we are almost at the end of the night. It was like pulling nails. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI do stand in support of the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill in its second reading. This is the fourth bill that I have spoken on today that is Labour legislation. This is something that Phil Goff did. This is Jim Sutton\u2019s work. This is, in fact, the third bill in a row that Labour has done all the work for. It is unbelievable. We are in urgency 18 months later on Labour bills. Where is the innovation? National members have the nerve to say that Labour did nothing in Government, yet we are on the third bill in a row that was a Labour bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Tariff Act 1988\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f03223689ef4aa5bc71597b3b8288e4\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s worse than his Uncle Walter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022500d37c6cb394e14a3bb175cf5de1f0d\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: The member has come to life! It is about time. Why did he not do that 5 minutes ago? As I was saying, this bill amends the Tariff Act 1988 in order to implement the Malaysia - New Zealand Free Trade Agreement signed in Kuala Lumpur last October. The bill\u2019s amendment will allow for transitional safeguard measures to be applied in appropriate circumstances to imports from Malaysia. [Interruption] The member has no right to criticise anyone\u2019s speech, yet he is sitting there doing so. It is unbelievable. Someone should send him the YouTube clip or wherever the debate is shown and show him how bad his speech was. I think he needs a few lessons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EMalaysia has a large and growing population of more than 28 million people and it presents ample opportunities for additional trade, investment, and other economic linkages. We all know that if New Zealand is to develop sustainable economic growth, then it must follow a policy of export-led growth like that promoted with this agreement. It must work to foster an economic environment whereby key competencies around export strategy are encouraged in any way, shape, or form. Mr English has stated that it is his Government\u2019s goal to drive an export-led recovery, and I quote: \u201CWe\u2019re looking for how to make sure we get a sustainable, export-led recovery.\u201D In my view, three things are holding back New Zealand companies from optimising their export growth in countries we have free-trade agreements with like Malaysia, which this bill fosters. The Government\u2019s actions are increasingly suboptimising any chance New Zealand has of increasing its economic growth through further development of the export sector into countries like Malaysia, which this free-trade agreement is about. There are three things holding back New Zealand: one, a lack of affordable capital; two, a lack of true export competency; and, three, an outdated monetary policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ELet me expand on these a little more. The first is a lack of affordable capital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa5e2ffbc2924386b8d3435f842d8de8\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, don\u2019t bother.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276e49e84e0154a05a7171f949109d946\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Hayes may learn something. He may have been in foreign affairs for a long time but he did absolutely nothing. It took a Labour Government to negotiate all the free-trade agreements that have been passed since National has been in office. Every single free-trade agreement that has been passed under the National Government is as a result of the work that Phil Goff and Jim Sutton did. How dare the member sit there like a big oaf, going on about how Labour does nothing. They were all done by Labour, and Mr Hayes knows that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI turn to the lack of affordable capital. Only 10 percent of all business loans are unsecured in this country. That means that 90 percent of all loans are secured against the assets of the owner of the company, often being the family home. This attitude and access to capital will never allow the country to address the issue of the fact that we overvalue capital and undervalue labour in this country. Basically that means that we prefer to employ cheap labour rather than spend money on capital in order to improve productivity. My question is how New Zealand companies wanting to expand and to take advantage of the Malaysia - New Zealand Free Trade Agreement can access affordable capital. Investment in capital does not lead to fewer jobs but, rather, to greater efficiencies, more jobs as companies grow, and, more important, a greater propensity to scale up for export growth into countries like Malaysia, which is what we are talking about at the moment. That is fundamental if the vast majority of companies are to take advantage of this Malaysia - New Zealand Free Trade Agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe second thing the Government has suggested it will do is sell Kiwibank. This is the Government-owned bank set up by the last Labour-led Government that by its own admission in the banking inquiry has saved New Zealanders about $1 billion in interest\u2014about $1 billion due to competition\u2014and this Government wants to sell it. Selling Kiwibank will be a huge disservice to the people of New Zealand and to companies in the export business hoping to establish a beachhead in Kuala Lumpur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203a4f021826a4e029495ba4467dd5980\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Selling Kiwibank has got nothing to do with the Malaysia - New Zealand Free Trade Agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a13f434403464dbf8845296307d5e700\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that. I did indicate to the member to bring it in. The member John Hayes is exactly right, so come back to the subject.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcc9160cdeb44daaa3ed91523763198e\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am talking about the free-trade agreement between New Zealand and Malaysia. I think it is a very important agreement. I think it has the opportunity to really grow our economy. But I see that, in terms of optimising this agreement and allowing New Zealand companies to grow, there are three barriers to real market optimisation. They really need to be addressed or this free-trade agreement will really not benefit the vast majority of New Zealand companies that could be in line to do so well out of this agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAs I was saying, 97 percent of New Zealand businesses are classed as small to medium enterprises. That means they have 19 staff members or fewer. Very few of these companies can afford to employ full-time international marketing or marketing development managers, let alone open an office in Malaysia, a country with a different language, legal system, and business culture. So we need an agency that is our eyes and ears in the global markets. I ask members to tell me whether this Government is taking any action to help New Zealand businesses make the most of this opportunity in Malaysia. No, it is not. However, let me tell members that Labour understands the value of assisting exporters to get into markets like Malaysia and optimise their ability to take advantage of this free-trade agreement. In its last term, the Labour Government increased New Zealand Trade and Enterprise\u2019s funding for market development assistance from $6 million to $54 million. Now there is only just under $10 million available in the International Growth Fund. About 6 months ago I asked the retiring chief executive officer of New Zealand Trade and Enterprise whether his organisation was New Zealand\u2019s international marketing and market development organisation. His response was: \u201CIf only.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe third point holding back New Zealand\u2019s economic and export market development into Malaysia is our current monetary policy. Can anyone in this House tell me how a company can effectively forecast and business-plan when it does not know whether the exchange rate will be at 0.55, 0.65, or 0.75? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229010136a76c44104bb4b31b4fded4cbf\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Have you heard of forward cover?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220747b0a5087a41e38ab3e60fd49351af\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: They cannot, and if Mr Hayes thinks they can, he should take his head out of the sand. No wonder we had such poor performance when that man was in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade. Goodness me, that is a bloody disgrace! The Labour Party has made a commitment to business to review current monetary policy legislation because we believe that it is not beneficial to New Zealand\u2019s economic growth, it will not allow companies to take advantage of this free-trade agreement, and it is not relevant to New Zealand\u2019s economic future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe time is now right for change. Business understands that. Labour understands it. The only people in this country who do not understand it are the members on that side of the House. I ask the House who really is the true party of business. Who is the true party of trade? As I mentioned, the work for every single free-trade agreement that has been passed while that party has been in Government was done by Jim Sutton and the Hon Phil Goff, the next Prime Minister of New Zealand and the only future Prime Minister who knows anything about international relations. He has been at the coalface negotiating contracts on behalf of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI support this bill for a variety of reasons, but I ask members to please not confuse my support for free-trade agreements with support for that Government, which lacks any discernable policy that would allow this country to optimise its economic advantage. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa0019fda6714c87aaaf92aa8e93c47d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa0019fda6714c87aaaf92aa8e93c47d\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E E te rangat\u016B pou mua o te reo o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. In November 2006 a group of Malaysian non-governmental organisations came across to Aotearoa with the explicit purpose of being able \u201Cto learn how the Maori people of New Zealand have brought their culture back from the brink of extinction\u201D. The delegation represented several ethnic minority groups, including four tribal members from the United Saba Bajau Organisation\u2014I apologise if I have the pronunciation wrong. The Bajau people are one of the most well-known populations in what we might describe as the endangered ethnic groups of Malaysia. The Bajau are traditionally seafaring people, and possess an incredible range of skills in the construction of fishing canoes and vehicles. They came here to learn together, and to consolidate and develop a partnership between indigenous peoples. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EI raise this experience today because it would appear to me that international exchanges, such as the one with the Bajau community, might be the type of relationship we might expect to see as a benefit of a relationship with Malaysia. The Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill amends the Tariff Act 1998 to implement the Malaysia - New Zealand Free Trade Agreement, which was agreed to in Kuala Lumpur on 26 October 2009. It enables the application of preferential tariff rates for imports originating from Malaysia. The bill also amends the Customs and Excise Regulations 1996 to give effect to rules of origin applicable to imports originating from Malaysia. Finally, the amendments will enable transitional safeguard measures to be applied in appropriate circumstances to imports originating from Malaysia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EI will place this free-trade agreement in some context for the benefit of the House. The M\u0101ori Party has previously voted against all free-trade agreements. Our rationale for doing so is that we believe the economic benefits of international trade agreements need to be balanced with consideration of our own local, regional, and national social progress and environmental enhancement. Our key position has been that we support fair-trade agreements as opposed to free-trade agreements. We want to use the opportunity of any trade relationships to advocate also for the support and implementation of indigenous international agreements, such as the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, International Labour Organization Convention 169, the M\u0101taatua declaration, the declarations of the United League of Indigenous Nations, and suchlike. We also seek to establish trade relationships with other First Nations peoples. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWe have been approached by M\u0101ori businesses in the past that have shared with us their genuine enthusiasm for any opportunity to take advantage of international markets. I think this is where the rubber hits the road for a party like ours, because although some people have contacted us with their deeply held concerns about the impact of free-trade agreements, others also see great potential in arrangements such as this. We speak for those innovative M\u0101ori businesses who want to seek new international challenges and develop a position as a significant player in our export growth, but we speak also about our fundamental right to determine our own sovereignty, rather than to surrender it to the march of overseas investors. We stand for the incredible diversity that characterises M\u0101ori economic activity, from M\u0101ori individuals in the labour market to self-employed people running their own M\u0101ori businesses, to tribal and pan-tribal M\u0101ori commercial entities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EBut we are concerned also about the loss of jobs. We also acknowledge that one of the consequences of the global market is that businesses and workers, including M\u0101ori\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5d2b114cc73472bb306b848f562f5c5\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member, but the time has come for me to leave the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201006224e988beb4f254752a4bc025df16bf793001179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 12 midnight to 9 a.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229b0d830081264da38038cba45bddc7d5\u0022\u003ETuesday, 22 June 2010\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002240eb4d944c7d4854b534c12ac8868715\u0022\u003E(continued on Thursday, 24 June 2010)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002266e62343e5fa4b93b57c6c343fea5f10\u0022\u003ETariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ec78086f955f4c7b8e6d241026a0f251\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u00228137639f602a4e7a9d9818248153ecac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228137639f602a4e7a9d9818248153ecac\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E I was pointing out before the break that one of the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s concerns about free-trade agreements is that a consequence of the global market is that businesses and workers, including M\u0101ori, may be forced to produce their goods at the lowest cost by taking production offshore, resulting in job losses at home, with people buying overseas goods rather than those made in New Zealand. It should not be forgotten that, in April of this year, we had some 20,000 M\u0101ori job seekers who could have benefited from employment opportunities. Unemployment creates stress on the wh\u0101nau, and relying on benefits for income diminishes the ability to manaaki. Yet, on the other hand, M\u0101ori enterprises increasingly want to play their part as a significant export earner for New Zealand. We know also that more support is required that would increase the capability for M\u0101ori taking their assets to the world. Presumably, Dr Sharples\u2019 mission to Shanghai will help to achieve that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWe question how workers in both New Zealand and Malaysia will be treated with regard to workers\u2019 rights and minimum standards on labour issues. I ask whether the free-trade agreements will comply with our basic employment law and our moral code. For M\u0101ori, the expression of manaakitanga towards others means that we ensure respect for the health and safety of all workers, yet we cannot ignore the fact that there are opportunities for M\u0101ori to leverage their assets to increase economic prosperity internationally. Every economist will tell us that the transfer of assets following Treaty settlements continues to build a platform for iwi-led economic development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party has been genuinely conflicted about free-trade agreements. We are concerned about their impact on the situation for M\u0101ori and on the sovereignty of the nation in the wider sense. We are concerned to see that low work standards and low wage rates are not introduced into New Zealand. We worry about what the agreements mean in the larger context of human rights and indigenous rights. We will be scrutinising the effects of free-trade agreements upon the environment, but we also recognise the significant opportunities that might emerge for M\u0101ori to utilise their resources, expertise, and knowledge to open up opportunities in the international market place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EAccordingly, although we initially opposed this bill at its first reading, for the subsequent readings of the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill, our votes will represent the diverse viewpoints that both characterise our constituents and should be considered in further debates. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8f1649b8cf046419b7e453a44ac19af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8f1649b8cf046419b7e453a44ac19af\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I listened last night to the debate on the Hong Kong free-trade agreement and the ensuing debate on the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill with considerable interest. Members may recall the comments I made last night on the Hong Kong agreement, where I critiqued the format of the national interest analyses that the Government currently produces when it addresses free-trade agreements. I challenged the Government to, I would say, come clean on the impact on free-trade agreements on imports and the New Zealand domestic economic sector, particularly the manufacturing sector. I called on the Government to drop the euphemisms that it employs, such as negative adjustment effects when it really means company failures and job losses. I asked the Government to be more specific in its national interest analyses in the future, to drop the ideological fixation, and to acquire a certain new-found objectivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EI appreciated the response that my remarks elicited from, particularly, Maryan Street, which I thought was very thoughtful and constructive, but also Mr Su\u2019a William Sio\u2019s acknowledgment of those concerns. I actually recall in the 2009 debate on the ASEAN free-trade agreement similarly constructive comments from Pete Hodgson. It is clear, I think, that Labour, unlike National, shares to some extent the Green Party\u2019s concerns over free-trade agreements, at least as they are currently structured and promulgated. I note also, of course, the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s position. As we have just heard from Rahui Katene, the M\u0101ori Party is literally split over the issue of free trade, and I sympathise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EIt is clear to us, I think, that National, however, is regrettably mired in a neoclassical orthodoxy. Most of its members prove unable to emerge into the sunlight of a new economic model. A few of them would not even recognise a new model if they tripped over it\u2014and I say that more in sorrow than in anger. I invite Tim Macindoe to prove me wrong within the next few minutes. Labour, on the other hand, is caught between a legacy and a hard reality. The legacy is a commitment to liberalise the economy from the 1980s\u2014the shadow of Rogernomics still shades its world view. The hard reality is recognition that all is not right with globalisation as it is currently prosecuted and promulgated. So Maryan Street calls for rejigging of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee procedure, and greater transparency. The Green Party appreciates that, and thinks it is a very constructive proposal. I call upon the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee chairman to respond equally constructively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ESo what do we need? I would suggest we need at least six new things. The first is an examination by the select committee of the structure of the national interest analyses themselves as they are currently used by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade. The second is agreement that in the national interest analyses and in the submissions equal attention should be given to the import sector as to the export sector. The third is that there should be greater transparency in the New Zealand Government\u2019s negotiating process, with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade reporting to the committee during the negotiations, rather than after them as a fait accompli. The fourth is the adoption of a longer time frame for negotiations, so that New Zealand\u2019s domestic economic interests have more time to make a proper input into the committee\u2019s deliberations and, for that matter, the negotiations themselves. The fifth is a more detailed analysis of the effect of \u201Cnegative adjustment processes\u201D on the manufacturing sector. The sixth is equal attention being given to the effects of free-investment provisions and to the free-trade provisions, and there should be separate sections in the national interest analyses to that end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThe Green Party submitted a minority view in the report of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill, as members know. We advanced three critiques of the agreement. First, the underlying theory on which the Government rests its commitment to free trade is misguided in the sense that it is not necessarily the case that both parties to such an agreement will benefit even in comparative terms, let alone in absolute terms. Secondly, the resulting skew towards economic growth is injurious to our medium-term employment stability and also to our long-term economic resilience. Thirdly, free-trade agreements are misleadingly named. They should be called free-trade and investment agreements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EOur submission to the committee\u2019s report was a shortened version of our written views. I have here a longer version, setting out in more detail our critique of free-trade agreements as currently pursued. I seek leave to table this document for the benefit of the House. Is that possible?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255f389df521a410bb7b62b154d48367b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The process for doing that is that the member raises a point of order then seeks leave. My advice would be that he should do that at the conclusion of his speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225abaffea1d044aca9f26c455aa911955\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM\u003C/span\u003E: I shall do that. I conclude by assuring the House that the purpose of our party\u2019s critique of trade policy is not to be perennially negative, as ACT is wont to assume from time to time, depending on which ACT members are sitting there; the purpose is to generate a reasoned debate over New Zealand\u2019s trade policy, and the place of the country\u2019s trade policy in the global economic context. I recall the ASEAN free-trade agreement debate last year when the Green Party made it clear that we were not against trade per se, just against the current manifestations of it under the current agreements. It seems the Labour Party, to some extent at least, shares those concerns. The Green Party will give an undertaking that if we can start afresh with a new look at trade policy, we will be very constructive in cooperating on the committee with not just Labour and the M\u0101ori Party but, indeed, National as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EI seek leave of the House to table the longer version of the Green Party\u2019s minority report on the Malaysian free-trade agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f0a53f8e0234db6aac7a4d9e8169576\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there anyone opposed to that course of action? It appears not. Leave is granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u002254d9612ec5744cb6b9b0c7af6bd4b26f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254d9612ec5744cb6b9b0c7af6bd4b26f\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise this morning to debate the Malaysian free-trade agreement. I will not be taking the approach that my learned colleague Kennedy Graham took in discussing neoclassical orthodoxies. I have to say that most New Zealanders around the country are not particularly focused on neoclassical orthodoxies\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd12d11e74da4a92b548138fbf32b335\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s neo-liberal, not neoclassical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8b1129974a14fab9dbe9e36713fc3a8\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Regardless, whether it is neo-liberal or whatever, most New Zealanders do not work in that sort of league, and really understand things at a much lower level. Once the Green Party starts to understand that and speak at a level that most New Zealanders understand, they will be in a far better space. But far be it from me to advise the Green Party on how to run its politics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EI will bring the debate back to a context that most New Zealanders understand\u2014to delivering on promises in elections. That is what National is doing. We made a big commitment to this country when we stood at the election on having a strong growth agenda. We had six levers that we were going to pull extremely hard to ensure that that growth agenda came through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe first lever was a tax system that encouraged Kiwis to get out there and work hard. We are delivering on that, and that is fantastic. The second lever was an investment in infrastructure to provide a framework for businesses to work under, to grow, and to provide jobs. It is businesses that provide jobs in our economy, and the other side does not understand that. We are pulling very hard on that second lever to make sure that we deliver jobs and growth to the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe third lever was an attack on compliance costs and bureaucracy. We saw that with the aviation bill yesterday, with which we are reining back compliance costs. We are making cheaper the cost of running businesses and getting our product to market. Again, that is another fantastic example of National delivering on its election promises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe fourth lever was controlling Government spending and focusing on delivering efficiencies and value for money in the Government sector. This Government is delivering really well on that, I am proud to say, which is fantastic. The fifth lever that is part of our vision and strategy to grow the economy was lifting the standards in education. Throughout the country, we are seeing standards throughout primary and secondary schools and tertiary education lifting and growing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EBut the area I want to focus on today is the sixth lever, and that is innovation and trade. We have seen in this urgency debate two examples of trade bills coming through, firstly in respect of the Hong Kong free-trade agreement and, secondly, in respect of the Malaysian free-trade agreement, which is before us on the table today. It is a big part of our trade agenda and is supported by the Opposition and most parties within this Parliament, with the exception of the Greens. Most parties understand that exporting is the key driver of our economy. That is what will grow businesses and grow jobs, and it gives us options within government to collect more tax over time and deliver better education and better health services. That is how it works, I say to Mr Graham. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ERather than focusing again on neo-liberal orthodoxies, I really want to give voters out there a really good example of what this means at the coalface. I will use the example of Zespri, whom Maryan Street mentioned yesterday when talking about the kiwifruit industry. I will give members an exact example of how this free-trade agreement will work for New Zealanders and for Kiwi business, using a green product with a low carbon footprint, which is the kiwifruit industry. Zespri is a company that is getting behind this Government\u2019s agenda. It has set a growth projection for their industry of taking kiwifruit sales from $1 billion to $3 billion by 2025. It is absolutely fantastic to see what they are doing. If we compare the growth in the kiwifruit industry with some of our other industries, we can see what an industry like the kiwifruit industry can do when it gets its whole plan together and goes well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ERight now, the kiwifruit industry is up there at 9.88 percent growth annually, year on year, even ahead of the dairy industry. We would not think that, but dairy is at 9.71 percent growth. The kiwifruit industry is even ahead of the meat industry at 5.62 percent. So the kiwifruit industry is getting behind this Government\u2019s agenda, is really on board, and is taking it ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe key points that Zespri spoke about, which will ensure that they can grow and achieve that $3 billion, is maintaining a single point of entry. That is something other industries around the country, particularly the meat and wool industries, need to have a strong think about if they are to grow their own industries and utilise the free-trade agreements that we are bringing out. If we have a look at those growth figures I was talking about before, we see that the wool industry, in particular, has not grown at all in the last 10 years; in fact, it has gone backwards. It has to have a long hard think about how it will take its industry to the wider market to utilise the free-trade agreements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EIf we think about an industry that has a green, sustainable product, then it has to be wool. There has to be a story to tell there. There has to be a way that farmers can drive more revenue into their profit/loss accounts and balance sheets. They can use wool to grow jobs in this country, so I think they have a lot of thinking to do there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EIn terms of Zespri, a big chunk of driving the growth to $3 billion is through using these free-trade agreements. In their document, they are fully behind this Government taking their industry to a $3 billion level. I think that that is to be applauded. With the free-trade agreements, we are in a great space. I am proud to be supporting the bill at this point in time. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022e791020fe3c54e9e9024571771ff7a7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e791020fe3c54e9e9024571771ff7a7d\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to hear from the senior Government whip that the Government is in a good space! But I have to say that I felt like that speech was a somewhat patronising contribution, which is a shame. I do not think those Kiwis out there watching the debate in the House today necessarily tuned in to hear the senior whip tell them what they would and would not understand of the Green Party\u2019s contribution. I think members are perfectly entitled to raise issues in whatever language they choose, and people will judge that on its merits, as they will judge the previous speaker\u2019s speech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI rise to talk briefly on the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill in the second reading. Obviously, Labour supports this bill, because it was the good work and steerage of Jim Sutton and the Hon Phil Goff that saw the majority of this agreement fall into place. That demonstrates, as well, that some of these negotiations started as early as 2005. Now we are looking at supporting these measures, which will allow the Malaysia - New Zealand Free Trade Agreement to be ratified. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ETo give a bit of background, which has probably already been mentioned by some of my colleagues, I tell members this deal expands on the New Zealand - Australia Free Trade Agreement signed in February 2009, and it essentially cuts the trade barriers between Malaysia and New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI will talk a little bit in greater detail about the issue of an export-led recovery, because it is something that we have heard a lot about from the Government, and it is relevant to this debate. In all of these debates, we hear the upsides and the downsides of free-trade agreements. I will talk about the merits of the Government talking solely about an export-led recovery without talking about the framework that exporters are working within, because I believe that is relevant. I think it was on 8 September 2009 that Bill English said: \u201CWe\u2019re looking for how to make sure we get a sustainable, export-led recovery.\u201D This agreement, in my view, is only part of a solution, in that regard. Sadly, the National Government has failed to look beyond free-trade agreements at other measures to assist New Zealand exporters. For instance\u2014and this is probably the most important measure I want to speak to\u2014National\u2019s refusal to even consider examining monetary policy will, I think, limit the extent to which new potential exporters will enter into the fray. John Key and Bill English have both said that they think we have the best monetary policy in the world, but if they took the time to speak with struggling exporters, who see their gains wiped out by very volatile exchange rates, I think they would see the issue a little differently, as Labour does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EFor those with an interest in this issue, I really recommend their looking at the speech that the Hon David Parker made on this issue recently, and also the one made earlier on this year by Phil Goff, when he said\u2014and it was quite a historic move on our part\u2014that the consensus on monetary policy was over, and for good reason. We have a relatively low level of exporters in New Zealand, comparative with the number of industries and entrepreneurs that we have in this country, and it is time that we start asking questions about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ENational\u2019s closed mind on monetary policy has not only been challenged by Labour; it has been challenged by the IMF, which I always quote with a few disclaimers. It recently issued a report that stated that inflation targeting was a necessary tool but not a sufficient tool for economic stability. If, indeed, the National Government\u2019s sole focus was economic stability through controlled inflation, one would think it may have taken that into consideration when looking at the forecasting Treasury delivered to it over the increase in inflation that would be generated via its latest Budget. This forecasting predicts some of the highest levels of inflation we have seen in some time\u20145.9 percent, from memory\u2014which will have a significant impact on many New Zealand householders. But that, of course, is an ongoing debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe IMF actually advocated additional use of monetary tools, including the exchange rate and limiting the amount banks can lend against the value of property. That suggests that other tools are available, and that perhaps we should be looking more broadly at some of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aa6621b03d84d1f894e139e585cca23\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Stick to what you know best; it\u2019s certainly not economics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fed1cbd76e3400493550c3db36a0040\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I look forward to hearing Paul Quinn\u2019s contribution on this debate. He obviously wants to give the House a diatribe on his view of economics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBut before he does that, I will talk briefly about the foundations that need to be laid at the same time as a free-trade agreement is signed. I do not think it is just a matter of the Government facilitating these kinds of agreements and then stepping back. In fact, I think the agreement with China was a very good example of how we can aid our exporters to enter into a massive and difficult market with success. We did that in 2008 by running a nationwide China roadshow, and also launching a Government website with information on the free-trade agreement and assistance on doing business in China. I think that was an incredibly important move towards assisting our exporters in that regard. Given that we are such a small market, I think it takes the Government to invest in some of those measures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWhat is National doing to help New Zealand businesses make the most of opportunities in Malaysia? I guess one of the best indicators we have is what measures have been put into the Budget, and I have to say that not only is there very little but, actually, the Government is scaling them back. In the 2009 Budget, for instance, National cut funding to New Zealand Trade and Enterprise by $101 million over the following 4 years. That is another example of where a cut in investment in the long term will lead to a reduction in New Zealand\u2019s potential growth, so it is a short-term band-aid fix that sets us back for very minimal savings. There have also been budget cuts to New Zealand\u2019s Market Development Assistance fund. That stands in direct contrast to what was quite a considerable investment by Labour in this area. In fact, in its last term the Labour Government increased the funding for Market Development Assistance for New Zealand Trade and Enterprise from $6 million to $54 million\u2014again, in recognition that, collectively, investment in this area would reap even greater gains. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EInvestment in this area is one thing; it is also incredibly important to make sure that New Zealand has an appropriate brand to trade on. We have several significant exporters who can, of course, trade off their name. Zespri is one of them. One of Zespri\u2019s successes has been the fact that it has been able to trade as a single export desk. It does not have a multiple range of exporters all marketing different brands of kiwifruit, for instance, and that is something we have to keep an eye on; it is something that is under threat. In the same way, New Zealand\u2019s brand becomes a brand across a whole range of products for small exporters. They capitalise and trade off our brand, because in and of themselves they may not be significant enough to trade solely on their own brand. This means that brand protection around New Zealand is incredibly important. Not only has the National Government depleted some of its investment in the marketing on behalf of our exporters but also it has done some damage to New Zealand\u2019s brand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI reflect briefly on the three recent issues in which New Zealand has made national headlines\u2014I will make that four, as there may have been some redemption, in regard to the All Whites. That one I am proud of. The All Whites have got us into the international headlines. The second most recent one is the Prime Minister\u2019s vasectomy\u2014not something I personally wish my country to be known for. That made international headlines on the world stage. Then there was the lack of respect the Prime Minister showed by making cannibalism jokes at an inappropriate time\u2014again, not something that I would wish my country to be known for. Finally, there are the proposals from the Government for the mining of parts of New Zealand\u2019s most precious conservation estate. Again, that was noted in the Economist and the Guardian as undermining our brand. These things do not help the New Zealand brand, and they do not, as a consequence, help our exporters. I do not think they help any of us as individual citizens who might be proud of our record and of our reputation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI extend a challenge to the National Government, and say that it is not just about signing free-trade agreements; it is about supporting our exporters and making sure the appropriate statutory framework is in place for them to be a success. That means reviewing our monetary policy. It is also about our brand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2968a64ed694dec997f2ae9b319160f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2968a64ed694dec997f2ae9b319160f\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise and speak briefly on the second reading of the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill. It is the sinews of trade that bind the world together, and the sinews of trade that allow countries to have a relationship that means they are likely to maintain friendly relationships rather than unfriendly relationships. An ability to communicate between countries is enhanced by trade between those countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EIt was a source of great surprise to me that in the world\u2019s best economic conditions under the last administration\u2014conditions unsurpassed in decades\u2014the tradable sector declined, year after year after year. This means that in terms of the goods we sell overseas to allow us to provide the services we need here at home for our people, to protect our most vulnerable and to provide world-class services in medicine and education, we were not doing as well as we could.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EThis bill, the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill, will boost innovation and improve export access to one of the key markets in Asia to which New Zealand exports. This agreement with Malaysia is an important part of National\u2019s focus on free trade, and on improving access for our exporters to world markets\u2014a priority that the Prime Minister mentioned in his speech to Parliament in February. It is only, as I said before, by lifting our economic performance through selling our goods and services overseas that we can create jobs, boost incomes, and improve living standards here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EMore than 70 percent of New Zealand\u2019s trade is within the Asia-Pacific region, and at this stage I pay tribute to the excellent work done by our Minister of Trade, Mr Tim Groser, who has been travelling all over the world and opening up markets for our products all over the globe. There will be greater certainty and opportunity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266339d4edef74b588473809aa54ca64c\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: Tireless and relentless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236c27dd7bea54fffb055210861104763\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER\u003C/span\u003E: He is tireless and relentless, as another extremely well-performing Minister, Mr Ryall, has observed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EThere will be greater certainty and opportunity for New Zealand businesses in future trading and investment in Malaysia. There are potential longer-term gains from regional integration. I give just a few details: 95 percent of New Zealand\u2019s exports to Malaysia will be duty-free from day one\u201495 percent. On full implementation, this agreement will amount to duty savings of over $10 million a year for our exporters. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2b1da231ca140b99edb45f3231c720e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2b1da231ca140b99edb45f3231c720e\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E It is an honour to rise in this debate today. The first thing I will do in debating the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill is to welcome the Minister of Trade back to New Zealand from his successful foray into supporting Australian politicians.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260fdca02ad354c96a3a71191cd0df393\u0022\u003EHon Tim Groser\u003C/span\u003E: I wasn\u2019t consulted!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212e2d86f109e490685425b6a06148b76\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! I am sure as the day evolves, we will be able to see the impact of the Minister\u2019s triumphal visit to Australia on the fortunes of the Australian Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278f49f1a2c97434295b0413edf0736a1\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Where are you going next?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e561bd0bd10454b856472e4a68dd741\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes! Some colleagues have suggested that Mr Groser\u2019s visa for the United States has been revoked by Barack Obama for fear of what might happen to him while Mr Groser is over there. In all seriousness, I congratulate Mr Groser as the Minister of Trade and, indeed, in his role in his former career, on the work he has done on free-trade agreements; he has had a bit to do with this one in particular. I also congratulate former Labour Ministers Phil Goff and Jim Sutton, who played a key role in the initial development of the Malaysia - New Zealand Free Trade Agreement, and the many foreign affairs officials who work on these agreements. An awful lot of work goes on behind the scenes not just, it might be said, from trade negotiators but also from those who manage the overall relationship between New Zealand and countries like, in this case, Malaysia. The trust that is built up over time lies behind an agreement like the Malaysia - New Zealand Free Trade Agreement. We are not able to make these kinds of high-quality agreements if we do not have high-quality diplomats and foreign affairs officials working overseas and negotiating for them. I offer my congratulations and thanks to those foreign affairs officials and, indeed, to the officials from other departments and agencies who have been involved in this particular agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis agreement is highly significant. It is also a high-quality agreement, as well, as free-trade agreements go. Malaysia is a significant country for New Zealand trade, as other speakers have noted. Between 2004 and 2008 there was an 80 percent increase in New Zealand exports to Malaysia, and in 2008 our exports were worth nearly $1 billion. It is a significant trading relationship for New Zealand and one that is obviously growing. It is a high-quality agreement in the sense that 95 percent of the tariffs that are being reduced will come into force on the day of agreement. That is excellent. It will be 99.5 percent by 2016. That is 5 years earlier than for the ASEAN free-trade agreement, so that is an improvement in quality. It is a step forward in terms of how our trade agreements are progressing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EA conservative estimate would tell us that there is a benefit of probably $10 million per annum just in the tariff changes. This agreement will really benefit exporters. It is of high quality. It has the elements of a free-trade agreement that we are used to. It takes into account services as well as goods, and I do not think we always give as much attention to the importance of the services side of these free-trade agreements. A lot of successful New Zealand businesses are involved in the services sector perhaps, as well as in the exporting of goods, but this is a high-quality agreement in terms of services as well as in terms of our core exports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI think my colleague Maryan Street has already talked about the importance of the kiwifruit sector, and clearly the removal of the tariff there will make a huge difference for Zespri. I know that Zespri and some of our other large exporters have also played a key role in this agreement. The agreement also binds in the existing duty-free access for New Zealand dairy products. Dairy products are usually a problem for us in our free-trade agreements, but it is good to see that we have managed to put a situation in place in this agreement where we bind in what is already a good situation and hopefully improve on it as we go ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI will talk about two elements that sit around this agreement, having now outlined the fact that obviously Labour supports this bill. We support the free-trade agreement, and we recognise the quality of it. Free-trade agreements need to be seen as part of our overall economic approach. I think my colleague Jacinda Ardern has already addressed the question of monetary policy and the fact that it is important to talk about what we can do better in terms of monetary policy. We have had a consensus in that area, but the question many exporters raise with me and with other colleagues is whether that balance of monetary policy is right in terms of supporting the exporters, who are a key part of this free-trade agreement. Those exporters are worried about the volatility of exchange rates. They are concerned that our current monetary policy focus is too narrow. I think that when we look at free-trade agreements, we need to look at them alongside the rest of what we are doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe also need to look at them alongside domestic policy. We need to look at how we are encouraging and supporting exporters; at what kinds of regional development plans we have; at what the plan for growth and jobs in New Zealand is; at whether we are creating the skilled population, the productive population, that will be able to take advantage of an agreement like this; at where the Government\u2019s skills strategy is; and at why the Government is not encouraging more people into tertiary education, rather than shutting the doors on people going into tertiary education. Free-trade agreements are fantastic and give a deliverable outcome to New Zealand, but if New Zealand is to take advantage of those agreements, it needs to have the infrastructure behind it. We need the infrastructure behind that in terms of how the economy is organised. We need to ask how we can have a skilled and productive workforce and how innovative ideas are able to be supported and taken forward. The Government is very proud of this bill, as it should be, but we need to ask where is the overall economic plan to deliver high-quality jobs to support the people who have the skills and to give people new skills to make sure they can contribute to this free-trade agreement and to growing the New Zealand economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe other element I will raise relates to what I call the side agreements to this free-trade agreement. In particular in this case, as has been the case in a number of recent free-trade agreements, there is an environmental cooperation agreement and a labour cooperation agreement. These have become a feature of recent bilateral free-trade agreements for New Zealand, and I think that is an extremely positive thing. For some time, since around the beginning of the century, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade and others were very reluctant to negotiate environment and labour cooperation agreements, and some of our partner countries were also clearly reluctant, but they have now become a regular feature. They offer a very important alternative and a very important different track for our relationships with these countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI have just come back from China with a Wellington City delegation, and one of the main things being raised with us as a delegation was the question of how we could work together in terms of environmental cooperation. The Chinese\u2014and, I am sure, the Malaysians, as well\u2014are very interested in renewable energy. They are very interested in freshwater management. They are very interested in a range of environmental issues, such as air quality, where New Zealand has some expertise and knowledge and where they also obviously have a great deal of expertise and knowledge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI believe that these environmental cooperation agreements, in particular, are a real opportunity for New Zealand. I hope that the Government will not see these agreements just as a tack-on that has been put on to the end of a free-trade agreement to placate people, but rather as an opportunity to actually grow our relationship with countries that are developing at an enormously fast rate, which is putting huge pressure on their environment. Here is an opportunity for us. We have the framework; let us use it. Let us make it a key part of our relationship, with Malaysia, in this case, and with all the countries that we have free-trade agreements with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe same goes for labour cooperation agreements. The labour cooperation agreements have sometimes been even more controversial, because they cut to labour standards issues, such as issues about wages and about health and safety. In China those are major issues at the moment. Foxccon faces huge issues with its workforce. It has massively increased the wage bill, but it is still having major issues. We have a lot to offer countries with regard to a cooperative model of labour relations and the importance of health and safety. I just urge, in closing, that this is a high-quality agreement, but there are also side agreements that offer a huge opportunity for New Zealand to broaden and deepen our relationship with Malaysia, in this case, and our relationships with other countries that we have a free-trade agreement with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI am happy to support this bill. Free trade is not the be-all and end-all of our economic relationships, but it is an important part of driving our economic growth and improving our relationships with the countries in our region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022 data-id=\u002253a2ff253dc049339f62d899fd48de0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253a2ff253dc049339f62d899fd48de0c\u0022\u003EJOHN BOSCAWEN (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I did not take the ACT call in the normal order when the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill came up late last night, but I will do so now. I have listened with interest to the debate over the last half hour or so, and it is interesting that Grant Robertson concluded his speech by saying that free trade is not the be-all and end-all of raising economic aspirations but that it is a very important part. I agree with him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EI was particularly interested to hear the contribution of Rahui Katene this morning. She talked about the competing concerns within the M\u0101ori Party caucus. She talked about the fact that when this bill is enacted, it will reduce the tariffs that apply to imports from Malaysia and it will introduce greater competition for products manufactured in New Zealand. However, the benefit, of course, is that it will reduce the price of products and goods purchased from Malaysia and, as such, it will raise the living standards of New Zealanders. If New Zealanders can buy those same products cheaper, then their money and their spending power goes further. As Rahui Katene said, it enables the M\u0101ori iwi, M\u0101ori interests, to leverage their assets to look for trading opportunities in Malaysia, to export products into Malaysia, and also to build on M\u0101ori development and M\u0101ori employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EThen the debate became quite wide ranging. Chris Tremain used the opportunity to outline the six key planks that the National Party stood on in the last election campaign. In particular, he focused on the growth of Zespri. Jacinda Ardern then took the opportunity to speak about the Labour Party\u2019s policy in respect of monetary policy, and she suggested that the Government should be looking beyond simply facilitating free-trade agreements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EBut the contribution that interested me the most was Mr Cam Calder\u2019s contribution. Cam Calder made the point that 70 percent of what this country sells is sold to Asia\u201470 percent of what we sell. Asia is our future; Asia is where we are marketing our products. I think that is a very important issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern talked about four headlines. She talked about the four headlines that New Zealand had achieved on the international stage in the last couple of months. We will make another headline, and it will come on 1 July. It will have a huge impact on the welfare of New Zealanders and our exporters. I refer, of course, to the emissions trading scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EOn 1 July we will introduce the most comprehensive emissions trading scheme in the world. We will introduce the first emissions trading scheme outside Europe and it will be the most comprehensive scheme. How do I know that? I listened with interest to the speech of the Hon Dr Nick Smith, the Minister for Climate Change Issues, when he spoke in the first reading debate of the National Government\u2019s amendment bill. What did Dr Smith say? On 24 September last year\u2014not 5 years ago, when Dr Smith was in the Opposition, but 6 months ago, when he was the Minister for Climate Change Issues\u2014he said that this emissions trading scheme would be the first for any country outside Europe, and that on 1 July 2010 it would become the most comprehensive scheme by including transport, industry, and energy emissions. To all of the New Zealanders who listened to Dr Smith when he was travelling up and down the country trying to minimise the damage that this emissions trading scheme will do to New Zealand exporters and New Zealanders, I repeat that Dr Smith told this House on 24 September last year that it will become the most comprehensive scheme by including transport, industry, and energy emissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EI will bring it back to the issue of our free-trade agreement with Malaysia and to Cam Calder\u2019s comment that 70 percent of what we sell, we sell to Asia. Dr Smith is very fond of saying that 29 of the 38 developed countries that signed the Kyoto Protocol\u2014the annex 1 countries\u2014have an emissions trading scheme. The countries that Dr Smith refers to are the countries of the European Union plus Norway and Switzerland. Eighty percent of what those countries sell is sold to themselves\u201480 percent of their exports are to other countries within Europe. Only 20 percent of their exports leave Europe. If we contrast that with our situation, we see that we sell 15 percent of our exports to Europe, so by definition we sell 85 percent to countries outside Europe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EBy Dr Smith\u2019s acknowledgment, we are selling 85 percent of our exports to countries that do not have an emissions trading scheme. As Mr Cam Calder reminded the House this morning, of that 85 percent of exports, 70 percent goes to Asia. Seventy percent of what New Zealand exporters are selling goes to countries that do not have the extra cost of an emissions trading scheme\u201485 percent in all. For the National Government to go up and down the country trying to convince New Zealanders that the emissions trading scheme is good for our exporters is an absolute disgrace. Europe has exposed 20 percent of its exports outside Europe, and is competing with countries that do not have that cost, but we are exposing more than four times that number of exports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003ETrade is very important. The ACT Party, probably more than any other party in this House, is concerned about the need to raise New Zealanders\u2019 prosperity and is interested in implementing policies that will do something about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EI noticed Rahui Katene commented that she was concerned about the impact of the free-trade agreement on workers\u2019 conditions and wages, and, in particular, on unemployment among young M\u0101ori, and, I dare say, among young Polynesians and all other young people. We had a chance to do something about that earlier this year. The House could have supported the legislation of my colleague Sir Roger Douglas on youth wages that would have given 16 and 17-year-olds the chance to gain employment by being employed on less than the minimum wage. What choice would an employer make between a young 35-year-old, who possibly has a wife or a husband and two young children and who needs reliable employment, and a 16-year-old? I suspect that if an employer had to make a choice between a 35-year-old with commitments and a young person, the employer would choose the more mature person all the time. Young people are being denied the chance to get employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EThe ACT Party will be supporting this bill. We support free trade. We support the opportunities that it gives our exporters and businesses. We support having the opportunity to try to raise New Zealand\u2019s prosperity and living standards. Only by creating employment and investment will we create a more prosperous country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EIf Jacinda Ardern is concerned about world headlines, then I suggest that all the parliamentarians in this Parliament should hang their head in shame. On 1 July we have an emissions trading scheme\u2014I think Mr Groser is laughing. I invite Mr Groser to explain how he thinks it can be good for those who sell 85 percent of our exports to be exposed to trading with countries that do not have the extra cost of an emissions trading scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EMr Groser may not think that is important, but Meat and Wool New Zealand has stated that the cost for the average dairy farmer from 1 July this year will be $3,900. Those farmers will pay that. That is 3c a kilogram on milk fat. It is $75 a week for the average dairy farmer. It is about $35 a week for the average beef and sheep farmer. Parliamentarians in this Parliament may like to laugh about that, but if we are really concerned about raising New Zealand\u2019s prosperity, our livelihoods, and our incomes, then we need to be doing a lot more than trying to penalise exporters in the way that the emissions trading scheme will do. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00229e98218ea2fb4c4a96d0b73be3f0805c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e98218ea2fb4c4a96d0b73be3f0805c\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E About half an hour ago, speaking more in sorrow than in anger\u2014I think those were his words\u2014our Green Party colleague Dr Kennedy Graham invited me to dispel his and the Green Party\u2019s fears over free-trade agreements. I suspect that the huge number of Green Party members and supporters in the Chamber and the gallery at this moment, and the thousands more glued to their broadcasts on TV and radio at home as I rise to take this call on the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill, are, sadly, probably fairly unshakeable on this topic. Nevertheless, I will have a go; the challenge was extended so earnestly and so thoughtfully in the best inter-party spirit of neo-liberal orthodoxies, and I do appreciate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EPerhaps the first topic I could explore that might appeal to my Green Party friends and supporters at home in Hamilton West is the environmental aspect. This agreement that we are steering into the statute book is Malaysia\u2019s first bilateral treaty on environmental cooperation to be negotiated in the context of a free-trade agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d144e116e520476b8efb69114892bd67\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: The first?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fd6a1b9097d4143b84fcd356b2cb2b6\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: The first, I tell Dr Calder. It establishes a set of shared trade and environmental principles to promote sound environmental practices and sustainable development. That is surely worth a celebratory bowl of lentil soup and a burst of morris dancing at the next Green Party regional conference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAnother aspect that may see the Greens treat themselves to an extra pumpkin and herb muffin is the continuing appeal of New Zealand\u2019s education system to Malaysians. The strengthening economic and cultural ties reflected by this agreement stand to get a further boost, and are very significant, especially at a tertiary level. I am sure that will appeal to the previous Labour speaker, Grant Robertson, who is the new spokesperson on tertiary education, and who is, I understand, especially excited and inspired by events unfolding across the Tasman as we speak this morning. It is worth noting that between 2003 and 2008 the number of fee-paying Malaysian students in New Zealand increased by more than 70 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7caa99c71cc4295bff4d92b87cc8ee5\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: What percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022877618fac1bb4f3481324caa4c824deb\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: More than 70 percent; it is a popular statistic this morning. That made Malaysian students New Zealand\u2019s third-largest source of international fee-paying students. It is worth noting also that international full fee-paying students are worth over $2 billion a year to our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe final point I make is just very quickly to reiterate the benefits of that to some of our major exporters. The Malaysia free-trade agreement eliminates Malaysian tariffs on 99.5 percent of New Zealand exports within 7 years of the agreement\u2019s entry into force. Specifically\u2014just looking, say, at the kiwifruit industry\u2014this means that exports that currently incur a 15 percent tariff from Malaysia will become duty-free by 2012; based on the latest figures, New Zealand\u2019s exports to Malaysia have grown already by 173 percent since 2007. There are great benefits for the milk industry, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThere we have it; I do not have a lot of time. Those are three great benefits. This agreement is another great step forward from a great Government. It is enough to make Dr Graham and his supporters green with envy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a802798802ee45c2ae1f86fe797b07e9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 3  (Flavell, Sharples, Turia); Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 2 (Harawira, Katene).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002296aa7272ee574c1a93f87d133a917bba\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2a3a58c8ea846a08364fe8a7c5b92a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2a3a58c8ea846a08364fe8a7c5b92a1\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave of the House for this debate to be taken as one question\u2014a wide-ranging debate with unlimited calls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209a5b6f27ffa42918b0de5ebd2717ae0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is everybody clear? Is there any objection? There is no objection. Leave is granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226d35f612b3c04b0cabdf815384009315\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u002200607d362d9649a5b198eeb3f10a58f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200607d362d9649a5b198eeb3f10a58f0\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will highlight in the Committee stage some particular aspects of the Malaysia - New Zealand Free Trade Agreement. Last night and again this morning we spent time talking about the general impact of this free-trade agreement on the New Zealand economy, with some reference to specific sectors. I will continue some of the analysis of the specific sectors and then talk a little more about additional provisions contained in this free-trade agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI spoke last night about kiwifruit in particular, but also our other primary products, which will benefit immediately that this free-trade agreement is passed and ratified by this Parliament. Last night I spoke about kiwifruit in particular. Kiwifruit will benefit by millions of dollars immediately on implementation of this agreement, and also will our meat, wool, dairy, fish, and forestry products. But today I will talk a little about some of the manufactured goods that will benefit from this free-trade agreement, and give some numbers. As we know, the tariff reductions follow a progressive, sliding scale over a period of time through to 2016, when all but 0.5 percent of tariffs on our exports will have been reduced to zero. This is an improvement on the ASEAN free-trade agreement not only in speed but also in absolute numbers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EFor example, steel is one of our manufactured products. That industry in particular currently bears a 50 percent tariff on exports into Malaysia. A 50 percent tariff is a very high charge. By 2016 at the latest, that charge will be eliminated. Under the ASEAN agreement, if I remember correctly, some residual tariff\u2014some 10 percent, I think\u2014will still apply on steel products, but into Malaysia it goes to zero. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EIt is similar for paints and varnishes. We often hear about kiwifruit, dairy produce, meat, wool, and all of those primary products at which we excel in New Zealand. But here we have a relatively small proportion of our manufactured exports into Malaysia, which currently carry a 25 percent tariff. That tariff will be eliminated by 2016. Another area is plastic products. Currently plastic products out of New Zealand bear a 30 percent tariff into Malaysia\u2014again, a huge expense, and something that really places obstacles in front of the New Zealand plastics industry as it looks to increase its exports. But in the case of plastic products, these tariffs are eliminated in 2012. That is in very short order. We are at 2010 now, and within 2 years there will be no tariffs on our plastic products going into Malaysia. There are gains for profits from our manufactured goods as well as from our primary produce. They are very tangible gains, and these achievements in this free-trade agreement actually mean more profit remaining in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI will draw attention also to some other features; I may come back to this one a little bit later in this part of the debate. The rules of origin in this Malaysian free-trade agreement are in fact, as I understand it, the most liberal of any free-trade agreement. That is a cause of some celebration or congratulations to the officials who have worked in this area. Rules of origin have often been a complex and difficult area to arrive at agreement on. I congratulate the Minister and the officials on achieving a very liberal rules of origin regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI go to another thing that is very important. Members of the Government and the National Party like to cast Labour members as people who know nothing about business; who do not understand the contribution that business makes to the New Zealand economy. Well, they may like to live in that outdated and outmoded perception of Labour, but we are busy forging ahead. Phil Goff\u2019s record in promoting, sealing, and initiating free-trade agreements recognises and demonstrates absolutely that the Labour Party understands fully the contribution of the business sector to the New Zealand economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ESo apropos of that, we have agreements in this free-trade agreement with Malaysia that impact specifically on business flows. Let me take a couple of examples. If we look at goods, for a moment, we can see there is an agreement that New Zealand goods will be cleared by the Malaysian customs department within 48 hours. Now that is hugely helpful, especially in a small country like ours that is dependent on primary produce. We do not need our kiwifruit to languish, even in refrigerated containers, in a city, a terminal, a port, a receiving area in Malaysia for any longer than they absolutely have to. So a guarantee that our goods will be cleared by Malaysian customs within 48 hours is extremely important. In fact, Malaysia has never agreed to that before. This is new for them but it gives New Zealand exporters a potential edge over their competitors, and that is to be welcomed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EAnother point in this free-trade agreement that relates to business and making business happen more easily into the Malaysian market is around business people, so this agreement includes a recognition that people seeking to trade in goods and services\u2014and investors\u2014will be treated equally in Malaysia. There are provisions to enable New Zealand business people who seek to work in Malaysia to be able to stay and visit there for up to 10 years; there is no such provision as that in the ASEAN free-trade agreement. This agreement makes it easier for New Zealand business people to get a foothold, to remain in Malaysia, and to promote their business and New Zealand products into those markets in the Malay Peninsula for a period of time. That will allow for consistency and the building up of relationships, which are necessary in order for that trade to happen smoothly. In addition, the agreement includes a provision to facilitate those temporary entry applications of business people within 40 working days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ESo at every point this agreement has attempted to facilitate New Zealand business and business people operating securely and with certainty into the Malaysian market, and all of those provisions are to be welcomed. Members on this side understand how important it is for business people not only to have access to foreign markets but to have reliable rules and provisions that allow them to trade and work securely and with certainty, so they can plan that there will be some kind of longevity to their enterprise in those foreign markets. I welcome those provisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00221324367fa0844cb59fa0299dad5597a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221324367fa0844cb59fa0299dad5597a4\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We have heard some very good speeches on the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill, which is one of those bills on which all parties agree. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1ef04cfc1444caaa750fab444ff266b\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: Wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245d632047fa944f08d14b9bc55049e4b\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: We do not necessarily agree on the philosophy of how New Zealand companies are best going to take advantage of this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269ee7abbec2e419d85453314895cb0e8\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: Wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d92b800c1474609bc333d535995b198\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to Kennedy Graham; the Greens do not agree on this bill, which is a real shame because we need to look at what is best for this country going forward, and how we will grow our economy in a truly sustainable manner while not really abdicating any of our global responsibilities. I think that these free-trade agreements do a perfect job in that respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI think of our past trade Ministers, the Hon Jim Sutton and the Hon Phil Goff. Last night in the Chamber I said that Phil Goff will be New Zealand\u2019s next elected Prime Minister. He will be a very good Prime Minister because he will be the only Prime Minister who has actually worked on the ground negotiating with New Zealand\u2019s partners on free-trade agreements. Phil Goff knows how the world operates; he knows what it takes to grow this economy. When John Key was on the 18th floor trading New Zealand\u2019s currency, Phil Goff was on the ground floor out there making it work for New Zealand exporters. That is a huge difference, and it will make a great difference to this country next year when Mr Goff is sworn in as our Prime Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWe need to concentrate on the economic benefits of this free-trade agreement. It has been mentioned, and it is important, that Malaysia is New Zealand\u2019s eighth-largest export market, which was worth almost a billion dollars in 2008. Between 2004 and 2008 our exports to Malaysia grew by 80 percent, and a classic case of that growth is the education market. Malaysia is a very important and growing education market for New Zealand providers, because between 2003 and 2008 the number of Malaysian students in New Zealand, as mentioned by my colleague Mr Grant Robertson, increased by over 70 percent. Malaysia is New Zealand\u2019s largest source of fee-paying university students, and the second-largest source of PhD students. At least one country in the region understands the value of education. Imagine if our Government put the same value on tertiary education as the Malaysians did! Mr Robertson would have nothing to say. He has taken over a shadow portfolio that is full of problems and holes, but he is making a great deal of it; I feel sorry for Mr Joyce, actually. Education is a major export earner for New Zealand in terms of this free-trade agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis agreement will eliminate tariffs on 99.5 percent of New Zealand\u2019s current exports by 2016. The remaining 0.5 percent is excluded on the basis of religion and safety, so we are talking about alcohol. We have to remember that Malaysia is a Muslim country, so alcohol is really the only product of significance in relation to our exports to Malaysia. That product is worth about $1.6 million per annum. In the way our wine marketing is going at the moment we have to get a lot slicker, but China is soaking up a lot of our surplus wine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe percentage of estimated duties that New Zealand exporters would have to pay will be reduced by 86 percent by 2016. That is about $10 million per annum in duties\u2014not an insignificant factor, at all. Malaysia currently has import taxes on over 10,000 products it imports from New Zealand. Again, the Malaysian market is not insignificant by any stretch of the imagination, and it is growing. Let me give another example. New Zealand Steel lines currently face 50 percent tariffs; by 2016 those will be tariff-free. That is a great example of how this free-trade agreement will grow this country\u2019s economy in the niche products we produce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ELet me tell members a little bit about Malaysia. It has a population of 28 million people, so it is quite a big market. Its parliamentary system is very similar to our own; it is based on the Westminster parliamentary model. Malaysia is renowned for its international trade and manufacturing as key sectors of its economy. I think my colleague Maryan Street mentioned that we all understand the potential for our manufacturers to suffer because of this free-trade agreement, so manufacturing industries in this country that may be affected have been the last to have phase-out provisions, which is very good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI do not know whether any member recalls this, but Malaysia was severely hit by the 1997 Asian economic crisis; foreign direct investment literally ran out of the country. Share values on the stock exchange dropped by over 75 percent. Malaysia devalued; in fact, it pegged the exchange rate. The Finance Minister was sacked and Malaysia started reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWhen I read that about Malaysia, I thought: \u201CGoodness me\u2014sacking the Finance Minister and starting reform\u2014that\u2019s not a bad way!\u201D. I tell Cam Calder that I think he should take that on board. I think he should do a reform, and do what Australia has done. National members cannot tell me that Mr John Key is as popular as all that; we can look at what he is doing to ordinary New Zealanders on the ground. People who live in Napier and who are on the medium wage will find that after the Government\u2019s tax cuts they will get $3 more a week. There will be a revolt. I think that this is an opportunity for Cam Calder to shine, and to organise to do what they are doing in Australia. He should have a look at the model and then be in. Anyway, Malaysia got rid of the pegged rate. It was abandoned in 2005 and Malaysia is now on a managed, floating system. But the Malaysian economy has really grown out of that crisis. It sorted itself out; it reformed. It really took off, and it is in great shape at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EMalaysia is now one of the region\u2019s leading education and health care providers, which reminds me of quite a funny story. I was in Taiwan earlier this year with three of my colleagues. Taiwan also has a brilliant health care system. One of the features of a lot of these Asian countries is that they really look after their people with health care. Again, that is something else we could perhaps learn from. But the Taiwanese were extolling the virtues of their cosmetic surgery sector over there, and saying what a wonderful industry they had and how safe it was. They were suggesting that I went back and sampled it. I did not quite know how to take that, so if members see me heading over to Taiwan in the next 6 months and I come back with a slightly straightened nose\u2014it was dented by an errant rugby boot about 20 years ago\u2014they will know what has happened. I am only kidding; I am not quite that vain. Maybe that is where John Key is at the moment? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EComing back to Malaysia, I tell members that the statistics about Malaysia, and in fact about the whole of Asia, show what an important region it has become to New Zealand\u2019s economic growth and prosperity. As Mr Boscawen kindly pointed out before, only 15 percent of New Zealand\u2019s exports go to Europe. What a change that is! I do not know whether anyone here remembers the history, but we almost went into a state of panic when it was announced that the British Isles were entering the European Economic Community. We thought: \u201CWhat the hell are we going to do about this?\u201D, because we were so inextricably linked to the UK with our exports. We had to have a complete philosophical change in relation to how we viewed the world, and, I suppose, to how we viewed what were then the seeds of globalisation. So we have moved, and what a long way we have come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EHowever, working in Asia, and in markets like Malaysia, brings its own challenges. There is a different language, a different religion, a different culture, and different customs. We can compare doing business in Australia or England to doing business in a foreign country like Malaysia. In Australia and England we can go along and talk about rugby or cricket, go out for a beer, and hand over some All Blacks jerseys. We have a lot in common from a cultural, sporting, and heritage background. But I suggest that doing business in Malaysia is a completely different kettle of fish. I would argue that this free-trade agreement\u2014as with the free-trade agreement with China and a lot of the others we are debating, such as that with Hong Kong, which we talked about last night\u2014is incredibly important. The real challenge we face as a country is how to really optimise our advantages and our opportunities in this market. My concern is that although this is a very good bill, New Zealand companies just do not have the tools to take advantage of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ECam Calder spoke about how the tradable economy has declined, and I would like to elaborate on that a little bit. That statistic is brought up a lot, and it is a very important statistic; we all have to take a step back and say that that is the case and ask what we are going to do about it. I think what has happened is that as we have changed focus, our companies have not had the tools to put marketing in place. As I mentioned, 97 percent of our companies are small to medium sized enterprises that employ 19 people or fewer. They do not have the resources to employ full-time, international market development managers to go and locate themselves in China, Malaysia, India, or any of those other emerging economic markets that will be so important to our future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe previous Labour Government understood the value of marketing, and it realised that we needed to do something. That is why Labour increased New Zealand Trade and Enterprise\u2019s funding for market development assistance from $6 million to $54 million. Now there is only $10 million in that international growth fund, so I agree with Cam Calder. This is a serious problem, but the National Government has cut $110 million, I understand, from New Zealand Trade and Enterprise. I ask how we will help our country\u2019s companies to take advantage of the opportunities that these free-trade agreements bring. Fonterra is fine, and Fletcher Challenge can operate on its own; they are huge multinationals with the resources to do that. But the other 97 percent of New Zealand companies are the ones we really need to lift up and help. New Zealand Trade and Enterprise needs to be our international eyes and ears on the ground, but this Government has not provided the funding for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00226ace8ee567c14fe3a2014f3db06244b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ace8ee567c14fe3a2014f3db06244b1\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E I want to make a couple of contributions to this wide-ranging debate on the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill. The first is to talk in a bit more depth about the tariff changes that are being brought in to force. Perhaps later, in another call, I will talk about some of the issues around services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is important to acknowledge again the quality of this agreement. This is a high-quality free-trade agreement. We see a lot of free-trade agreements coming before this House, and this one makes advances on previous agreements. Mr Hayes and others on the opposite side of the Chamber who have experience in these matters know that the optimal agreement for all of us is a comprehensive World Trade Organization, or WTO, agreement that gives us global rules that are fair and take into account the special and unique circumstances of particular countries. I see Dr Graham nodding in agreement. I think it is important to say at the outset that from a Labour Party point of view we are aiming for a global agreement. The Doha development round is in difficulty, and it would be good to see it make more progress. It should still be New Zealand\u2019s highest priority in trade negotiations. But in its absence regional and bilateral agreements remain important, and this bilateral agreement demonstrably will lead to benefits for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ETo go back to the tariff elimination process, on entry into force, as well as confirming the outcomes from the ASEAN deal, the agreement binds in Malaysia\u2019s level of openness on $821 million worth of exports\u2014that is today, before the agreement is even signed. Those exports encompass butter, milk powder, cheese, wool, kiwifruit, apples, and some manufactured products. It is a significant achievement on day one, on the agreement\u2019s entry into force. To eliminate tariffs on those key export areas for New Zealand is extremely significant for those exporters and extremely significant for the New Zealand economy. As a number of other speakers have already stated, it amounts to 95.1 percent of our current total exports to Malaysia. For a bilateral agreement, that is a very significant amount on its entry into force, and, once again, I pay tribute to the officials and the Ministers involved for getting such a good outcome on day one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn the 2011-12 period tariffs will be removed from $27.9 million of current exports. They include electrical parts, fibreboard, chocolate, and some other manufactured products. A further 3.2 percent of our exports to Malaysia will be covered. That means that, by the end of 2012, 98.3 percent of our current total exports will be duty-free. So there is another step forward in the next 2 years. Finally, in the period 2013-16 tariffs will be removed from a further $10.2 million of current exports. They include paper products, plastics, paints, whiteware, iron, and steel. That will bring us, as has been previously stated, by 2016 to 99.5 percent of current exports being duty-free. That is an achievement worth celebrating, and it is in advance of the ASEAN deal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is worth dwelling briefly on the fact that this deal brings things into force ahead of the ASEAN deal. It is difficult when we make a trade agreement at a regional level to then go back to a bilateral partner and say that we would like to make further progress, to make faster progress. To be able to do that on so many fronts in this bill is excellent. I mentioned in my second reading speech some areas where that will happen. In terms of paints, varnishes, and plastic products, this agreement is well in advance of the deal with the ASEAN countries. In 2016 they will be duty-free for New Zealand; under the ASEAN deal they will be duty-free in 2020. It is significant that under this particular deal those tariffs will be removed more quickly. It means that this agreement is a high-quality agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI am sure that some people in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade\u2014some of Mr Hayes\u2019, Mr Groser\u2019s, and my former colleagues\u2014will be deeply concerned that the 0.05 percent of tariffs remaining were not removed. As Mr Nash has already said, they are mainly tariffs on alcoholic products, but also on tobacco, firearms, and tyres. My personal view is we need to respect the fact that there will be countries we negotiate with that have reasons why they do not want to go there. One of the nuances of free trade that I think is important to highlight is that being an absolutist in free trade does not take into account the experiences and the different cultures of other countries. We need to respect that when we sign these agreements. We need to negotiate hard and we need to ensure that we get the best possible benefit for our exporters, but we also need to remember the overall context of the relationships that we have with those countries. Alcoholic products are the obvious ones that we can highlight and say that they have to do with religious practices and we should be prepared to be somewhat flexible on that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI certainly come from the school of thought that holds that for a long period of time New Zealand\u2019s free-trade policy, although delivering considerable benefit to New Zealand, was a little bit like playing a lay-down mis\u00E8re hand in a game of five hundred. We said to the rest of the world: \u201CHere we are. We are prepared to give you absolutely everything we have, and, hopefully, you will give us a little bit back.\u201D That approach to free trade did not work as well for us as it could have, and perhaps it left us with fewer cards to play in later trade agreements. My having said that, this agreement is a high-quality agreement, but it gives us some pause to reflect that from time to time we need to be flexible, that we do not need to be absolutist, and that we have the ability to take into account the circumstances of other countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI want to refer to services, which my colleague Stuart Nash has already dwelt on. I note that the services sector will benefit significantly from this agreement, not only in the area of education but also in the area of environmental services. As I said in my second reading contribution, this issue relates to the so-called side agreement on environmental cooperation. It is not actually a side agreement, and I am very pleased that a lot of the literature that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade has produced recognises that those environmental and labour cooperation agreements are treaty-level agreements. In the parlance of diplomats, that is significant. It gives status to those agreements, and it means that the free-trade agreement and the two cooperation agreements can be seen as part of a single entity in terms of our relationship, and can be worked on together. The services area is where it comes together, because environmental services such as waste-water management, air quality management, noise abatement services, and nature and landscape protection are areas where New Zealand has expertise, areas where there is a lot that we can take to other countries and, indeed, receive in return. In the services sector there is the chance for leverage off the environmental cooperation agreement, so that we can maximise the benefit to all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe area of education has been discussed at some length, but export education is a vitally important part of what we are doing. We have a good history with Malaysia in that area. I know that the university I attended, the University of Otago, had a significant number of Malaysian students over the years, including people who have risen to the heights of being Government Ministers, which obviously has a flow-on, beneficial effect for New Zealanders as we go ahead in the education area. As I said earlier, the services sector is not an area that we often highlight, because it is easier to highlight the actual products that we are exporting, but this agreement delivers a number of important opportunities for New Zealand exporters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAnother services area that has not been talked about much today is information and communications technology services\u2014ICT services. Here in Wellington we have a number of newer start-up software companies that I know have been developing their markets in Asia, and Malaysia is a huge opportunity for them. As Mr Nash said, that is an example of our exporting some of the fantastic ideas that New Zealanders come up with, but we need to continue to generate those ideas and to support the people who generate them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe services sector is vital to New Zealand because it builds on the comparative advantage we have of a strong schooling system and a tradition of innovation, but we put that tradition at risk if we are not prepared to invest in the innovators, if we are not prepared to put money into tertiary education and into assisting researchers to commercialise their opportunities and develop export markets. Information and communications technology is another services sector that, under this agreement, can offer great potential for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is important to be able to see the balance within this agreement of goods and services. It is a high-quality agreement, but, as Mr Boscawen picked up earlier, I do not believe that free-trade agreements are the be-all and end-all, and there is further opportunity for development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8c60fa17b104c419115b0bbfb2b64b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8c60fa17b104c419115b0bbfb2b64b5\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E This debate on the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill is proving to be arguably the most interesting free-trade debate that we have had in my time here. We have had debates on the free-trade agreements with the ASEAN countries and, yesterday, Hong Kong, although the debates on the Hong Kong and Malaysian agreements have merged into one debate, in a way. We are joined in a genuine dialogue, and I thank my colleague Tim Macindoe and others, even Chris Tremain, for responding to my comments, and for responding to members on the Labour benches, as well. I may have a bit more to say about that, to continue the dialogue in the third reading. This is not the place to do that here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EI would now like to address the Minister in the chair, and to take the opportunity to pay my personal respect to Tim Groser for his skill and devotion to the task. I hope he understands that the critique that the Green Party advances on trade policy in no way reflects any diminution of the high regard that we have for him or, for that matter, for his colleagues. I take the opportunity to ask the Minister a number of factual questions, on which I may perhaps stand to benefit from his answers. They are advanced in a positive spirit. There are five or six of them, and I hope I do not get too confused in my own thoughts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1 has to do with the description in the national interest analysis of the benefits of the free-trade agreement to New Zealand. It is divided into basically two dimensions: one is the static benefit, and the other is the second-order net benefit. It was explained to us in the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, and this is in the committee\u2019s report, that the term \u201Cstatic benefits\u201D means the initial shock\u2014the immediate competitive shock\u2014to an economy through trade liberalisation. My question is whether, as we are told that \u201CThe removal of a tariff encourages exporters to improve their competitiveness by allocating their resources more efficiently, and increasing their market share.\u201D, we can have evidence of the greater efficient allocation of resources. I ask whether we can have evidence in a specific sense, obviously not in terms of the Malaysian agreement, because we are discussing that, but let us say in terms of the China agreement and perhaps the ASEAN agreement, so that we can understand the effect in practical terms. I am often criticised, and I enjoy the criticism, for being excessively theoretical. What we want is a practical example of the static benefits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThe second-order benefits, we are told, include innovation and technology. The definition I was given in the select committee stated that second-order benefits meant the dynamic productive gains over the longer term through investment, competition, and adjustments of scale. The committee\u2019s report states that the agreement\u2019s second-order benefits \u201Cinclude innovation and technology transfer, which lead to increased exports and access to new markets. These effects should lead to an improvement in New Zealand\u2019s economic performance, including the creation of new jobs.\u201D My question relates to the fact that those second-order benefits through innovation and technology presumably apply to Malaysia as well as New Zealand. I think it is an example of the inherent bias and slant that we bring to bear on our so-called objective analysis in the national interest analysis when we trumpet the benefits to New Zealand exporters through all this, but remain silent or mumble when it comes to New Zealand imports and the effect of an agreement on our own domestic manufacturing sector. So my question is initially theoretical, but I assure members it will quickly become practical. If the second-order benefits were equally distributed, then presumably there is no net economic benefit to New Zealand. Is that correct, or is it wrong? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EI come to my second question. I note the lament in the so-called disadvantages section of the national interest analysis that the agreement\u2019s principal disadvantage is that it did not go far enough. There is the 0.5 percent that Mr Robertson was lamenting, although he was gracious, broad-minded, and globally-minded enough to issue a caveat and say we should be flexible and not 100 percent absolutist about this. I could phrase that differently. We are told there that \u201CNew Zealand would have preferred an even more ambitious goods market access outcome.\u201D, notably so that it could export\u2014wait for this\u2014alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EWell, New Zealand wine is very nice, and probably not very many of us are teetotallers. However, I advance the suggestion that it is cultural insensitivity of the highest degree to lament in our national interest analysis that another country, with another religion and a different culture from ours, and with which we have cordial relationships and a degree of mutual understanding, is to be criticised by implication for not importing New Zealand firearms and tobacco. Never mind the alcohol, although that is an issue! What are we doing here? It is hubris, and it has slid into our national interest analysis in the name of so-called objectivity. These analyses are not objective documents; they are creeds. What manner of cultural insensitivity drives us to insist that those people accept those exports from us? Have we no shame in this respect? I am sorry; I meant that to be a factual question, so I will look to the Minister to answer it in a very low-key, deadpan, rational way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EI turn to question No. 3. The national interest analysis talks about the negative adjustment effects, and it goes as far as to identify a few sensitive sectors: \u201Cmargarine, clothing, footwear, carpets, \u2026 steel, plasterboard and most wooden furniture.\u201D Yet when I asked in the select committee whether any study had been done in New Zealand by the Government or by academia about the effects on those sectors of previous agreements, the answer was no, New Zealand had not done any studies. New Zealand, we are told, looks to the study done by the Asian Development Bank about the effects of free trade on Europe and the United States. My suggestion is to ask whether we are 100 percent convinced, given the different scale of those economies from that of New Zealand\u2019s economy, that that study applies ipso facto to our economy, or might we just stretch our 4.2 million population capacity to undertake a study of our own? If we have not done such a study\u2014and I am told we have not\u2014then we should do so. That is another question to the Minister: should we take that on? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EI will now ask question No. 4. We are constantly told that the Green Party can start morris dancing again, on the grounds that because there are environmental protocols in the agreements we can be happy and go home. I have a question for the Minister to answer factually. I have asked about this and the answer, as far as I can understand it, is that there have been no meetings yet, in relation to any free-trade agreement, under the environmental protocols. I will be happy to stand corrected on that, but could I please have details of any meetings held under the environmental protocols of any free-trade agreement: details of when and where the parties have met, and a transcript of the meetings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EFinally, question No. 5 derives from the earlier comments: has a review of the effects of free-trade agreements on New Zealand\u2019s domestic manufacturers ever been done? If not, should we take that on, in this country? Never mind the Asian Development Bank\u2014there should be a New Zealand Government study or a commissioned academic study of the effect on New Zealand\u2019s companies. Which companies have suffered economically? Which domestic manufacturers in this country have suffered economically, in terms of both revenue and employment\u2014jobs lost within their own companies? If we do not have the courage and the integrity to take on that kind of study, then we should. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0051b39ca1a496ca80677a6ccd3d363\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0051b39ca1a496ca80677a6ccd3d363\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will talk about some additional items that have not been covered so far in this debate on the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill. I acknowledge the comments of the previous speaker, Dr Kennedy Graham, and say that last night, when I spoke for the first time on this legislation, I made reference to the 0.5 percent of tariffs that will remain, including those on wine and pork products, which are clearly exceptions made on the grounds of religious and cultural custom and practice. That will always be the case, and should always be recognised by New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI will talk about a couple of things. One thing that has not been mentioned so far, which I think is a good feature\u2014and this free-trade agreement, I think, is not the only agreement where such a thing has been put in\u2014is the establishment of a free-trade agreement joint commission. That instrument can be used in the future to assess and amend the impact of this free-trade agreement. The purpose of the joint commission is to review the implementation and operation of the free-trade agreement, and to recommend any amendments to it, so this particular construction makes this free-trade agreement\u2014along with others, but we are talking about only the Malaysian one at the moment\u2014a dynamic agreement. It means that we can look at the agreement again in a year\u2019s time\u2014because the requirement is that the free-trade agreement commission should meet within 1 year of the free-trade agreement entering into force, and after that as often as the parties agree\u2014to assess whether improvements can be made to the free-trade agreement. The joint commission will be established, and it has in its brief a number of committees that will look at the trade in goods, the trade in services, technical barriers to trade, the sanitary and phytosanitary measures in the agreement, investment, and economic cooperation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI will link this debate to some comments from the M\u0101ori Party earlier. In the consideration of this agreement I will next go into the labour and environment treaty-level agreements. My colleague Grant Robertson has pointed out that these agreements are, indeed, binding treaty-level agreements. But the connection with the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s comments earlier goes to the labour cooperation agreement. The M\u0101ori Party has expressed concerns about the rights of workers and the treatment of workers, and that party is absolutely right to do so. We must be clear, however, that a free-trade agreement does not prescribe for any country how it might run its internal industrial relations or, indeed, its labour market system. We would resent it if Malaysia started to tell us how to run our industrial relations and our protections for workers, so Malaysia would be rightly offended if we intruded into its domestic policies in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ETwo things are important about the labour cooperation agreement. Let us be very clear to start with that these are Malaysia\u2019s first such agreements, and that Malaysia has not had labour and environment agreements with other countries before now. So we could say, for the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s benefit, that New Zealand has brought those agreements to the table, in that regard, which is a very constructive thing to have done. But two things are of significance in my mind, as a Labour member of Parliament, and are important in the labour cooperation agreement. The first is that no domestic labour policies may be used for protectionist purposes. In other words, both countries agree that they will not drive down the wages of workers in order to secure some economic advantage that prohibits or inhibits New Zealand exports into their market. They will not apply domestic policies that will be used for protectionist purposes. That is important. The second important thing is that there is an agreement to pursue the principles embodied in the ILO Declaration on Fundamental Principles and Rights at Work and its follow-up in 1998. This is no effort for New Zealand, but it is significant that we have that agreement with Malaysia. Both countries are bound into ILO principles and declarations, and that becomes important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe shared objectives of this labour cooperation agreement are that we have a goal of promoting working conditions and improving and advancing the quality of life for workers. In addition, there is a 90-day time frame in which to resolve any issues arising out of this agreement. If we think something is going wrong with this part of our free-trade agreement\u2014the labour cooperation agreement\u2014we can actually raise the matter and seek to resolve it, and there is 90-day time frame for resolving such issues with Malaysia should they arise. That includes even the involvement of Ministers. So this is a significant addition for Malaysia, and it is a significant aspect of this free-trade agreement that we should not lose sight of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ESimilarly, the environmental cooperation agreement will address all sorts of things, again establishing a framework for cooperation with the intention of working together across a whole lot of environmental issues, including environmental expertise and technology, waste management, wetlands management, ecotourism, and environmental remediation\u2014the list goes on. That also becomes a significant piece of this apparatus and, therefore, subject to the same provisions for resolving any disputes that arise out of it, even to the level of Ministers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI will have the pleasure and privilege of meeting with the Malaysian Foreign Affairs Minister on Friday as he is visiting this country, and I will have this discussion with him. This is a good moment for us to be passing this Malaysian free-trade agreement legislation through all its stages, and I too add my acknowledgment of Minister Tim Groser for his part in advancing and concluding this free-trade agreement. We have a Minister who understands not only the mechanisms but the detail of such free-trade agreements exceptionally well, and that has been an advantage to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EServices are also included in this agreement, and the primary one, which I will use my closing moments to speak on as it is of real significance, is education. Malaysia has long had a relationship with the New Zealand education system. At the time of accompanying the Minister, on his gracious invitation, to the signing of the free-trade agreement in Kuala Lumpur, if I heard about the Colombo Plan once I heard about it a gazillion times. I was almost tired of it. However, it is part of our historical connection with Malaysia\u2014a connection that was founded in education and educational exchange. Malaysia is keen to upgrade the quality of its universities. It does not rank highly in the world\u2019s assessment in terms of its universities, and it is very keen to benefit from New Zealand in that regard. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022 data-id=\u00222caf9dbab6b84ea082a1f0872f772c6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222caf9dbab6b84ea082a1f0872f772c6b\u0022\u003EHon TIM GROSER (Minister of Trade):\u003C/span\u003E I want to answer some of the questions that have been raised, particularly by Dr Kennedy Graham. They have also been touched on by Grant Robertson. In doing so I want to issue a consumer welfare warning. Three of us are, of course, former Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade employees. I am speaking on behalf of the centre-right faction of the ministry. There is serious danger of this developing either into a university-style seminar or, even worse, an internal Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade discussion, which is what drove me out of the institution in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226294334952b84d509cc976b10c000a07\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m the exception; it is all right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d644e94df6c94be7aa0c79680d050d23\u0022\u003EHon TIM GROSER\u003C/span\u003E: Ms Street is indeed the exception; she has made some very interesting points, and I will address some of the substantive points that she and others have made in some comments during the third reading. But I do want to respond now to the direct questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EFirst of all, in respect of the distinction between static and dynamic effects of trade agreements\u2014and I remind members of my warning about turning this into an academic seminar\u2014the question was asked as to whether there is any evidence for that, and, in particular, whether there is any evidence that the removal of tariff rates has actually brought some of these benefits. I want to put on the record the fact that I have been for 30 years a deep sceptic, close to the point of being an opponent, of econometric measurements of the benefits of trade agreements, ever since the early phase of the CER negotiations, when I was an economic official in Canberra for the New Zealand Government in the 1970s. The then IAC, the Industry Assistance Commission, which is now the Productivity Commission of Australia, estimated that the effects of entering into a free-trade area with New Zealand would be equivalent to 0 point something 1 percent of GDP and, therefore, was not worth the trouble. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EOf course, the problem with these econometric measurements is that they are arithmetical approximations of reality. There is a huge amount of literature about x-efficiency gains and second-ran dynamic effects, which no economic model can capture. I have no time for these models, whatsoever. For example, if we look at any modelling done on the removal of tariffs in the 1980s and import licensing on textiles and clothing, we would see a sector that structurally in New Zealand was based upon the import substitution model and that was trying to compete on price, with the added advantage of massive frontier protection. No model would have picked up Jeremy Moon, for example. No model can ever pick up an operation like Icebreaker. All the models showed at the time the complete destruction of the clothing and textile industry of New Zealand, because that was the model on which the existing structures were based. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EIt is a matter of record and a matter of obvious sympathy for the people in the 1980s who suffered the consequences of liberalisation because they were moving out of uncompetitive industries, but we are now seeing the upside for the first time. We are seeing a company like Icebreaker specialising in design\u2014innovative, high-cost, high-value products. The argument that we could never export T-shirts to China is factually wrong. We can, except that they are at the absolute top end of the market. Mr Moon once told me in Beijing a couple of years ago, when I went there with the then Prime Minister, Helen Clark, for the signing of the China free-trade agreement, that it had taken him 6 years to build Icebreaker to a million-dollar revenue\u2014goodness knows how he and his family and employees managed to survive during that period on such a low turnover\u2014and another 5 years to go from $1 million to $100 million. The way he did it, of course, was to take advantage of the global supply chain. No model could predict that. No model ever will be able to predict that, and there is a vast amount of literature to support that theory. Frankly, my view in terms of economic theory is that one is better to rely on Economics 101 than on high-class econometric analysis. That is a personal view, but it is a very strongly held view, and it is a view that I have applied over 30 years of practical experience in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EThe second question was on benefits to Malaysia. The question I wrote down\u2014please forgive me if I have slightly mischaracterised it\u2014was: \u201CIn the event that the second-order effects were equally beneficial, and assuming that the benefits were shared, would there be any net economic benefit?\u201D. The answer is that absolutely there would be, because trade is not a zero-sum game. This is not a division of spoils of war that we are talking about in respect of Malaysia or any other trade agreements. This is a provision to allow both Malaysian people and New Zealand people who live and work in their respective workforces to raise their productivity, raise their real wages, increase the trade between the two countries, and benefit mutually. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EGiven the pressure of time and my strong interest in facilitating the work of this House, I will not carry on at great length, but I want to address an issue that Dr Graham raised about cultural differences in respect of, for example, the exemption for liquor, firearms, and tobacco. I say that I completely agree with Maryan Street and Mr Grant Robertson, and implicitly, I think, with Dr Graham, that we should respect cultural differences. Free trade is not a religion\u2014I completely agree with their observations on that. Free trade is a pragmatic means of enhancing the welfare of people in New Zealand and in the countries we trade with. We should and we do respect cultural differences. This has been reflected in almost all trade agreements from GATT, 1947 onwards, and while I have the privilege of being the Minister under the current Government I have continued to exercise flexibility and respect for other peoples\u2019 cultural differences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EWith regard to wine in particular, the issue, I think, is best handled in the following way. We understand that different societies have different cultural practices on alcohol, and I agree with Mr Robertson, Ms Street, and others who have said that we should continue to do that. On the other hand\u2014and I am sure members would agree; I do not want to caricature their positions in any way\u2014it is very important to protect a billion dollar - plus industry in New Zealand from discrimination in those markets with regard to other exporters of alcohol. I think the balance here\u2014and I suspect that members would be fairly comfortable with this\u2014is to try to ensure that in agreements like this where countries for cultural and social reasons do not want to enter into internationally legally binding trade agreements, we secure side understandings that say \u201CIn the event that your policy were to change, in the event that you grant tariff concessions to other exporters of wine or alcoholic beverages, we would expect equivalent treatment.\u201D So it is based on non-discrimination, but it still leaves the importing country, which will often be an Islamic country in this context, the full freedom of action to apply their own standards in terms of their societies. I think that is a perfectly reasonable position, and that is the position I have adopted and will continue to try to adopt in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EJust briefly, on one of the last questions Dr Graham put, as to whether there have been studies of the economic effects of removing tariff protection, there have been a truckload of studies, done by both previous Governments and many academics and institutions like the New Zealand Institute for Economic Research. Fundamentally, they show that we have suffered adjustment effects out of uncompetitive industries. That has been difficult for the families of the people who have been displaced. But, equally, we have seen a huge growth in exports from industries that never would have arisen had we tried to freeze the structures of industry in place 25 years ago and never made any change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u002272c122bd1bf14926a9eeceb8a67fee47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272c122bd1bf14926a9eeceb8a67fee47\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E I will start by acknowledging Tim Groser\u2019s input on this bill, and also the explanation that he just gave, as well. Having somebody with that sort of experience in his field is clearly of benefit to the country, and is able to build on the work that has been done on the Malaysia - New Zealand Free Trade Agreement, which the previous Labour Government initiated in 2005. Obviously many people have said that a bilateral agreement like this is less favourable than a more wide-ranging global trade agreement or even a regional trade agreement. But, nevertheless, I think New Zealand has been very successful and adept at being able to forge, and to be a vanguard in pushing forward, bilateral free-trade agreements to its advantage. Ultimately, with such a small internal market, we are an exporting nation and we rely absolutely on our export growth in order to prosper. On that, I will touch on a point that was raised earlier regarding being sensitive to cultural aspirations of the countries that we forge agreements with. The same can be applied in reverse in the sense that the agreements we have signed have also acknowledged the Treaty of Waitangi. So we receive reciprocity from other countries in terms of acknowledging our particular cultural areas of sensitivity and the importance they have for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThis free-trade agreement\u2014and I am very pleased to hear that the Malaysian Minister of Foreign Affairs is coming tomorrow, because I think it is particularly appropriate that we are discussing this in Parliament the day before he arrives\u2014will inevitably bring about an increase in the export activity that is currently under way between Malaysia and ourselves. I notice that between 2004 and 2008 export growth grew by 80 percent. If we look at our free-trade agreement with China we see that in a very short period of time, a couple of years, our export growth has risen by over 60 percent. Although we are not necessarily expecting the same with Malaysia, it could quite easily see big increases in exports, particularly in milk, with the duties and the quotas eliminated; steel products, where 50 percent of the duty on that is removed; kiwifruit, where 15 percent of the tariff is removed; and so on. There will be an estimated $10 million of savings annually. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003ESomething Maryan Street brought up is important, too: to put into this agreement the effects on the environment and on labour\u2014the environment in particular. Our ability to sell high-value goods and commodities in the world is dependent on the way we are seen as being an ethical, environmentally responsible producer of those goods. That is fine from our side, but not so long ago, I think just a few years ago, there was definitely some discussion about the environmental standards, for example, in logging and forestry in Malaysia. If this free-trade agreement can in any way assist in the environmental standards and not denigrate or degrade those standards in Malaysia, then I think it is also in that respect a positive move. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EI want to touch on the fact that although we are at the vanguard of free-trade agreements, I suspect we are not keeping up with some of the other parts of our economy that can really push and further our export growth. The importance of, for example, monetary policy being much more predictable and far less erratic is something that comes up, invariably over and over, when I go around to talk to exporters, particularly, but not necessarily, in the high-tech area. They start off with an assumption that the New Zealand dollar might be at an exchange rate of 66c, but they find that a little while later it is at 75c and then it drops down to a figure that is much less than that. This gives them an extraordinarily difficult time in trying to predict their profitability and therefore the actual life of the company. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EWe have relied very much on inflation control measures to balance this. I notice that the International Monetary Fund recently stated that it is probably foolish for us to rely on a single tool with which to modify our interest rates. I believe there is scope for lateral thinking on that. We may not want to go as far on the issue as Singapore does, which has banded its exchange rate, but nevertheless, as we enter these free-trade agreements, and this one with Malaysia, I think we need to look at some of the other aspects of our exports that are perhaps not getting the attention that free-trade agreements like this one are getting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EMy colleague Stuart Nash mentioned the drop that New Zealand Trade and Enterprise is going to receive through a cut in funding of $101 million. That does not inspire a huge amount of enthusiasm or hope that we have a Government that is really committed to exporting across the board. It cannot just be in freeing up markets, it has to be in all the aspects behind that, to ensure that we are able to put our goods into markets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EOn that note, again, I say that this free-trade agreement with Malaysia will largely\u2014not wholly\u2014benefit the production of our commodities. Another recurring theme that is coming through in pretty much every analysis I have read is that our commodities, over time, have actually declined in real value. If we look, for example, at comparably sized countries, like Denmark, like Finland, we see that where they are getting the additional value in their economy and in their commodities is not in the lightly processed commodities that they send overseas but in their high-value manufactured goods, both in terms of their labour productivity and also in terms of their ability to export real value. Sixty-six percent, or more, of our exports come from commodities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EI was reading just the other day an interesting account of a seminar series, called the Waipuna seminar series, that Mike Moore, the former Prime Minister, had conducted in 1993. Actually, Clayton Cosgrove was one of the principal authors of that book. Exactly the same issues in that seminar series are the issues we are facing today. We are exporting commodities that are declining in value despite the increase in dairy products, despite all the optimism that there will be a protein shortage around the world. Those are declining, and we need to be diversifying and adding value to our exports. The challenge is how we do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EWe can rise to challenges. We did rise to challenges in the early 1970s when 75 percent or more of our exports were going to Britain and to Europe, and suddenly, 10 years later, it was less than 20 percent. We are able to adapt. We are able to move our exports in a different direction. We have not been able to adapt in the export sector as successfully as we would like. Despite the $6.5 billion worth of exports in the high-tech sector\u2014nearly 80 percent of that $6.5 billion is exported; it is an incredibly valuable, highly productive sector\u2014we have not been able to grow that. Other countries around the region are doing that, Malaysia being one of them, and Singapore being another, as well as Taiwan and Korea \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca0ce14e85af4025a7adac3616809e5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca0ce14e85af4025a7adac3616809e5a\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E I will take a brief call on two or three matters. The first is my response in part to Dr Graham\u2019s comments, particularly in relation to the question of how the national interest analysis discusses the missing 0.5 percent. I appreciate the Minister\u2019s explanation about those issues, and indeed I understand the point particularly about alcohol. I am not sure that we could make quite the same point about firearms and tobacco, but I endorse Dr Graham\u2019s comment about the way in which the national interest analysis raises this matter. I think that something for future thought is the fact that the language and phrasing in the analysis does not pick up the spirit of the Minister\u2019s comments, and indeed of others in the House, about showing our respect for other cultures, and our belief\u2014and I was perhaps diplomatic in my language earlier\u2014that we do not need to do that. We do need to respect and understand other countries and the limitations of these free-trade agreements, and I think that some of the language in the national interest analysis on that issue perhaps left a little to be desired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe second point that Dr Graham raised that I will respond to, concerns the importance of environmental cooperation agreements, and the actual discussions that take place as a result of them. One agreement I know a little about was with Chile in the Pacific Three Closer Economic Partnership, which is now morphing its way into being the Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership Agreement. I know that significant work was done there, with a number of meetings, particularly in the eco-tourism area. A lot of information was shared about how to grow that sector, but also about how to ensure that the effects of tourism were mitigated on the environment. There was significant exchange. The Ministry for the Environment in New Zealand was actually the lead agency. It brought in a number of eco-tourism operators who were able to share their experience, but they heard equally from the Chilean side. In fact, in talking to a number of the eco-tourism operators who were involved in that, I discovered that they felt they learned as much from the Chileans, even as the learning went the other way. That is the advantage of those agreements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThat brings me to the point that I will raise, to build on Maryan Street\u2019s comments about the environmental cooperation agreements. Those agreements were seen, as I said in my second reading speech, somewhat as tack-ons. I think it is important that in this House we make clear that the expectation of parliamentarians is that those agreements are much more than that. They are treaty-level agreements that are of significance to us. They round out our relationship with countries so that it is not just about free trade and tariffs, it is actually about building a stronger and deeper relationship, in which environmental cooperation has leveraging possibilities for services. But it is more than that, as well. It is in fact a sign of our values, and that is why the labour cooperation agreement is significant and important as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThere are obligations in the agreement to set up committees and to have those committees meet, and I implore the Government to continue to see those parts as important parts of free-trade negotiations. It is true that in the early years of this century a number of other countries were reluctant to have those parts, but New Zealand has pushed on. As Maryan Street said, we have in fact led the way in those agreements. We are the ones who have said no, those must be part of our free-trade agreements. I think we now need to back that up with further action and ensure that they are meaningful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI do not believe, I say to Dr Graham, that such agreements are a sign that the Green Party should recommence morris dancing\u2014in fact, nothing should encourage the Green Party to recommence morris dancing\u2014but they are a sign that there is an understanding of the importance of environmental cooperation, the importance of labour cooperation, and the fact that, as Maryan Street said, we are referencing International Labour Organization agreements and the outcomes of the Rio Earth Summit. That is important. It gives great stability to those agreements to have international agreements alongside them. I think it is important to note that environmental cooperation agreements and labour cooperation agreements are rising in their importance, that their status has been increased by being at a treaty level, and that they are now a very important part of free-trade agreements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u00228e773fbe08de4cc995315abec1bee395\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e773fbe08de4cc995315abec1bee395\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am saddened to hear the discouragement from Mr Grant Robertson about the morris dancing. I now have to advise the House that no invitations will be issued to anybody for that. I add that from time to time there is a touch of Handel and Faur\u00E9 in there between bouts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EI will not take up much of the time of the Committee. I have just two queries to make, if I may, and I address them to the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Trade. I thank him very much for his answers. He missed one, and Grant Robertson touched on it a moment ago: the environmental and labour protocols. I ask the Minister to forgive me if it has been provided in the past; I have not noted it. Could we perhaps please have, from the officials, for the benefit of members of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, a list of the meetings held under both environment and labour protocols under each free-trade agreement since the beginning of each agreement, with details of when they met, where, and, if possible, transcripts, or at least a report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EMy second and final point is that he mentioned that truckloads of studies were done within New Zealand about the effect of free-trade agreements on the domestic economy. I would have intuitively assumed that to be the case. I just offer the view that I made two inquiries on the number of studies. One inquiry was with a senior economist from a university. He consulted with his colleagues, and the answer was none. That came as a surprise to me. The second time I asked was within the committee. I asked officials and I was told no, but there was an Asian Development Bank report pertaining to Europe and the USA, which is why I mention the comments. If there are such studies specifically\u2014it may be a matter of definition\u2014on the effect of free-trade agreements on the domestic economy in New Zealand, then on a purely factual basis, I personally, and perhaps other colleagues, would benefit if the Minister and his officials would be good enough to give us a bibliography. I certainly will explore it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022 data-id=\u0022b44131ac707a434f95bb035a52f901a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b44131ac707a434f95bb035a52f901a7\u0022\u003EHon TIM GROSER (Minister of Trade):\u003C/span\u003E Very briefly on that point, there certainly have been specific studies on the CER, which was our first free-trade area agreement. Off the top of my head, I cannot give Dr Graham references, but most certainly I have written some myself and read many others. In respect of more recent free-trade agreements, there was a long period between drinks; our second free-trade agreement after the one with Australia in 1982 was the one with Singapore, and I recall that it was concluded in 2002. I doubt whether it is profitable to try to examine the near-term effects of any specific free-trade agreements, because they will be bound up in a general analysis of the impact of removal of tariff protection. The removal of tariff protection comes from a variety of different sources: from Uruguay round commitments, from unilateral liberalisation, and from free-trade agreements with Singapore, Thailand, and, eventually\u2014when this bill is passed, and we assume the House will pass it\u2014Malaysia. I think it would be impossible for any economist to disaggregate the effects of the removal of tariff protection. The studies will show the effects on the New Zealand economy of the removal of it, but I think it is highly unlikely that we will see a disaggregated analysis, other than in respect of the CER agreement with Australia, firstly, because of the significance of that agreement, and, secondly, because of the longevity of that agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00227ea3956ea2dc46858e38526c4309d844\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ea3956ea2dc46858e38526c4309d844\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I enjoyed Tim Groser\u2019s contribution to the debate. There is no doubting his competency, experience, and ability to represent New Zealand\u2019s best interest when overseas, and that is very good. But I would like to ask the Minister of Trade one political question. There were advantages in having a Minister of Trade like Phil Goff sit round the Cabinet table, because Phil Goff understood the politics of politics. He knew when to push hard, he knew when to pull back, he knew whom to talk to, he knew whom to massage, and he knew when to get money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI will bring up again what I have mentioned a couple of times. Although the agreements we have debated today and last night, and also the China free-trade agreement, are no doubt exceptionally good for this economy, I have some slight concerns that we do not have the processes in place to allow the 97 percent of small to medium enterprises that may have the ability to scale up and look at export markets to do so. I am worried that we do not have the tools in place to allow that to happen. As mentioned, our whole trade focus has changed. It used to be Eurocentric, and now it is pretty much focused on Asia. Fifteen percent of our exports now go to Europe, but it used to be nearly 100 percent. Mr Groser knows those figures a hell of a lot better than I ever will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn the 2009 Budget National cut the funding of New Zealand Trade and Enterprise by $101 million over the next 4 years. As Mr Groser will be aware, the Labour Government increased New Zealand Trade and Enterprise\u2019s funding for market development assistance from $6 million to $54 million, and it is now just under $10 million. Although I do not doubt Mr Groser\u2019s absolute ability, skill, and competency around the trade negotiation table, I ask whether he feels that he has the confidence of his caucus colleagues or the skills and experience round the Cabinet table to now stand up and fight for the money that is necessary for our companies to take advantage of these free-trade agreements. What I would have liked to see in the Budget was not a cut to the funding of New Zealand Trade and Enterprise or to anything related to trade development; it would have been great to see a massive increase in funding, because, as the Minister of Finance has said, New Zealand is an export-led economy, and he hopes that New Zealand will drive its sustainable growth through export growth. So the rhetoric does not quite match the action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI do not know whether the Minister has time or is willing to answer those questions, but that is a concern I have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7c3609da67f42feaa8f0c7f829334e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7c3609da67f42feaa8f0c7f829334e8\u0022\u003EHon TIM GROSER (Minister of Trade):\u003C/span\u003E I say very briefly, and not in the spirit, I am sure, in which the member asked the questions, yes, I am afraid shock waves are going through the New Zealand Public Service as a result of the election of the National Government, because the truckloads of money that have been pouring through the front door in the last 9 years, leading to an increase in core Government expenditure of some $30 billion, has stopped. Public servants are now experiencing the shock waves caused by having to be asked to do more with less. In respect of the idea that we do not follow up on these free-trade agreements because New Zealand Trade and Enterprise has somehow switched off, I will be sure to make a point of personally inviting Mr Nash to the next New Zealand Trade and Enterprise - Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade seminar on free-trade agreements. I opened two seminars last week in which we did exactly as Mr Nash was proposing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226b3eba6148c9496fb93bc5289ad55eb9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clauses 1 to 5 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 3 (Flavell, Sharples, Turia); Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 2 (Harawira, Katene).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 5 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000184\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000185\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224b38737616e649fcbee84fd6d11ea968\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022 data-id=\u0022f44adda07bde4151824fddcf3113d3f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f44adda07bde4151824fddcf3113d3f1\u0022\u003EHon TIM GROSER (Minister of Trade):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. I want to respond to the interesting debate at previous stages of this bill. I thank all the members of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee for their work. I thank all members for their contributions in this debate. I acknowledge the support of the Labour Opposition for the bill. Of course, as members opposite have made us aware in several of their interventions, it is part of a broader pattern by which we have moved quite consciously and quite deliberately to take this issue out of the partisan arm wrestle. In the context of this bill, I want to emphasise the importance of that in a very real and practical sense for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EFor other reasons that I will not go into, the fact that my mum has just passed away became a matter of wide public comment in New Zealand. I was going through her papers a week or two ago, and, like all mothers and grandmothers and all fathers and grandfathers, she had proudly cut out articles about things that her children and her grandchildren were doing. One article she had cut out was an article written by me congratulating the previous Prime Minister, Helen Clark, and the then Chief Executive of Hong Kong, Tung Chee Hwa, on initiating the beginning of a Hong Kong - New Zealand free-trade agreement. It is a matter of public record that this negotiation failed in its first iteration\u2014or in its second iteration, to be frank. Prior to that, when I was working in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade and was the principal economic adviser to the ministry, I had negotiated in principle an earlier attempt to have an agreement with Hong Kong, and that too failed, in the sense of not working at that time. Only on the third attempt to implement the strategy did we actually succeed. As Ms Street will recall, she and I went up to the signing ceremony in Hong Kong a month or so ago, and finally New Zealand nailed this agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EA couple of interesting lessons that are applicable to this bill have emerged from that. One is the importance of consistency of strategy, and the second is the importance of flexibility in tactics. Our first two attempts failed, but the strategy behind them was correct. In respect of consistency, the reason why we eventually nailed this agreement with the separate customs territory of Hong Kong and Macau was that we were able, as a small country with a population the size of that of Sydney, to maintain a completely consistent policy approach. I repeat: it is very important for this country, with so little material power, to have a consistent policy that can sustain itself over the phase of the electoral cycle, and then to have complete flexibility in tactics. In respect of Hong Kong, what we were trying to do, of course, was push the door open to China. In the event, our tactic did not work. It proved possible only to go right to Beijing and do the real deal with Beijing first, then come back and open the Hong Kong door. So our tactics were not right in terms of the flux of international politics at the highest level\u2014because this is serious stuff internationally\u2014but the strategy was right. That, I think, is a lesson New Zealand needs to bear in mind in dealing with the outside world, remembering that we are 4.5 million people and 0.2 percent of world trade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EThe Malaysia - New Zealand Free Trade Agreement follows exactly this pattern. I recall, having launched the Singapore - New Zealand free-trade agreement under the then National Government in the 1990s, being invited up for \u201Csecret talks\u201D in Kuala Lumpur. At that stage, the idea of Malaysia doing a free-trade agreement with New Zealand was highly controversial. Now, 13 years have elapsed, to the point where we are now able to address this matter in a formal parliamentary sense, and I celebrate New Zealand\u2019s success once again. But the story is the same. The strategy must be consistent and the tactics need to be completely flexible, because we need to adjust to the political realities of the major trading countries, which are much larger countries than ours; otherwise, we will fail. We were able, in the case of Malaysia, to begin a dialogue when its policy structures were not sympathetic to moving this forward. We were then able to move it forward in the context of AANZFTA\u2014the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Agreement\u2014negotiations, which are only now being phased in, since the beginning of this year. The lesson, once again, is consistency of strategy and flexibility in tactics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EIt is only when we look back that we can see how far we have travelled. New Zealand has travelled a great distance on these issues. New Zealand is a country that I have always argued suffers more than any other country in the developed world from lack of access to markets. Numerous econometric studies\u2014putting aside my own distaste for econometric studies\u2014and other, more rounded economic studies indicated that in the 1980s the impact on New Zealand, which was then suffering from an acute lack of access opportunities for our traditional products, in a relative sense was more negative than that on any other developed country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EIn that context I might take up one point that was made by Mr Shearer in his remarks about commodities. I share his frustration, as I think most members of the House would, at our relatively slow progress in taking advantage of higher-value products moving up the value-added chain. The way I would express that concept these days\u2014because we as a country have been debating it for 30 years\u2014is to participate in the global supply chain. And it is a big challenge for us. The global supply chain is where the action is. According to the latest OECD study, 58 percent of the world\u2019s trading goods are intermediate goods. In other words, we do not have vertically integrated production, with everything made in New Zealand then exported; if we want to gain entry into the really sophisticated features of modern international trade, we produce components or bits of the global supply chain. This requires a shift in our thinking as a country, and it is quite challenging for some people who still think in traditional terms\u2014that everything must be 100 percent produced in New Zealand. But if we as a country want to move up the value-added chain, if we want to participate where the real action is, I agree with Mr Shearer that that is where we have to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EI do not know whether I am disagreeing with him, but I draw his attention to the point that these free-trade agreements address one aspect of that. I will introduce the technical term for it for a minute. It is called tariff escalation. The problem for New Zealand historically in getting out of the commodity trap has been the cost issue of tariff escalation. That means that countries have wished to import our raw commodities, whether they are wood, wool, or dairy products, and then put higher and higher levels of protection around the further processing of those goods. It confined us to being a hewer of water\u2014I have forgotten the familiar biblical phrase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022346c79d8e15547238eb7705ec43963df\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Drawer of water, hewer of wood.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243f921677e654109b8a3154a4b1eed98\u0022\u003EHon TIM GROSER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. It was not because we did not want to move into the higher value-added areas; the structure of tariff protection in our markets prevented us from gaining access. So these free-trade agreements do help to address the issue that Mr Shearer was concerned about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EIn the brief time I have available I want to reinforce the points made about the labour and environment cooperation agreements, because I think we need to understand what we are trying to do here. I assure members who have spoken on them that they are more than just clip-ons. I have strongly pushed them forward. I am working with the Opposition in the context of the TPP, or trans-Pacific partnership. Maryan Street will recall that she, Phil Goff as Leader of the Opposition, Helen Kelly as the president of the Council of Trade Unions, and I went to see the president of the American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations, or AFLCIO, and we have been able to carry forward this agreement. In my brief remaining speaking time I want to give assurances to members that it is not just some cynical exercise. We are taking it seriously. In respect of the environment agreement, it is exactly the same. I do see significant opportunities for New Zealand. I am not quite sure whether it is public knowledge yet, so I will be cautious, but there is an extraordinary new opportunity in China involving a pilot project of very significant standing, which will potentially be a massive gain in terms of cleantech, and will have New Zealand involvement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223f670c71-9be5-4a7e-a197-0590da759280\u0022\u003EI strongly support these free-trade agreements. I strongly support their voluntary nature. I think we have to work with developing countries that are sensitive to compulsory models. I think we have a great future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022607410209d4f45d297df9d77a7086058\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022607410209d4f45d297df9d77a7086058\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me great pleasure to rise and speak in the third reading of the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill. Although it gives me great pleasure, I am sure that it will give Lain Jager and Carol Ward of Zespri Group even greater pleasure to know that the third reading of this bill is now before the House. And so it will pass, in a matter of minutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI make the reference to Zespri because, as we have traversed in the second reading and Committee stage the benefits of this free-trade agreement\u2014and will continue to do so in the third reading\u2014it is clear that as far as the exporting of goods is concerned this is indeed a very high-quality free-trade agreement. Within very short order, in comparison with other free-trade agreements, we will see almost all tariffs eliminated from our goods exported into Malaysia. By 2016, 99.5 percent of our goods will be tariff free. Better than that, at the moment of implementation there will be a benefit instantly for kiwifruit and for other primary production items. In the case of kiwifruit, we will see the elimination of a 15 percent tariff on exports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThat is a multimillion-dollar deal for one of our horticulture industries. That multimillion-dollar deal means that profit will be retained within New Zealand and it will not carry the cost of the tariff that has applied until this moment. As I think mentioned in the second reading, along with our other primary products that are exported into Malaysia\u2014butter, cheese, honey, wool, apples, milk-powder, and increasingly now liquid milk, as well\u2014with this free-trade agreement we will see an improvement in the profit margins for all of those industries because of the elimination of the tariff cost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EWe have talked quite a lot about the benefit for trade in goods. I now take the opportunity of this third reading to focus a little on those things that I have not had time to speak about in my previous contributions. I want to talk a bit more about the trade in services, which is particularly significant in this free-trade agreement. The services referred to in this free-trade agreement are substantial. The one of particular interest is education. Education is New Zealand\u2019s single most important services export after tourism. Tourism attracts very few barriers, but that sector and the education services sector stack up very, very favourably as the most important services export sectors. What has been achieved in this free-trade agreement is that access for the education services sector has become New Zealand\u2019s highest priority for the negotiation of services in this free-trade agreement. We have a very good deal\u2014a very good arrangement\u2014that includes primary, secondary, and higher education plus additional training, particularly English language training. Making that education available on very favourable terms in Malaysia will boost our education exports here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EMalaysia has agreed to provide New Zealand with most favoured nation treatment in private education. It means that education providers will enjoy the best treatment that Malaysia gives any of its competitors from other countries. Having a most favoured nation status in respect of education exports will make things easier for our very qualified and very capable education sector. I made reference earlier to the fact that Malaysian universities are keen to improve their performance and that the Malaysian Government is keen to improve the performance of Malaysian universities. With the research and teaching record in our tertiary education sector, we can assist in that area, and that also benefits New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI will say a couple of other things about this agreement in general. I have spent some time talking about the binding treaty agreements on labour and the environment that are a part of this free-trade agreement. I reiterate the fact that these agreements remain dynamic, as does the free-trade agreement. Should any disputes or issues arise out of the maintenance of labour standards according to ILO declarations and principles, or any application of domestic labour policies that are used for protectionist purposes, there is a process to resolve those issues right up even to ministerial level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI look forward to additional clauses, I suppose, being added into such free-trade agreements in future, because it seems to me that this will be the way of trade in the future. If we do not care in a cooperative way for the fragility of this planet, then it does not matter how good we are at producing high-quality exports, because there will be no orderly, productive, and sustainable means of continuing trade. I cannot overstate that point. In the end, it remains the most critical basis on which we engage with other countries. Either we have a sustainable planet or we do not, and if these agreements can be used to enhance cooperative arrangements for sustainability, sustainable production, and sustainable trade arrangements, then so much the better. The world is better for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThis free-trade agreement is significant. When we were in Malaysia, the Minister of Trade talked about it being the icing on the ASEAN free-trade agreement cake. It is just much better in its terms and timing than the ASEAN free-trade agreement, which is a significantly beneficial agreement on its own. We have a long history of engagement with Malaysia, particularly on cultural and educational matters. It is fitting that this House passes this legislation without further delay and that the free-trade agreement with Malaysia proceeds forthwith. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u0022de67219e801c404796a9828281926955\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de67219e801c404796a9828281926955\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of the third reading of the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill. It is great to be in a waka with 121 paddlers where all but 11 of them are paddling in the same direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThis bill will give us new market opportunities. It will help exporters and it will help service providers. It will provide transparency and certainty. Malaysia is our eighth largest export market. It is bigger and more important to us than Germany, India, and Canada. In the period between 2004 and 2008, our exports to Malaysia grew at a rate of 80 percent, which is double the rate of growth of New Zealand\u2019s exports to the rest of the world. Our investment in Malaysia has grown by 77 percent since 2003, and it now sits at about half a billion dollars\u2014or it did in 2008, which are the last figures I have seen. That means that our investors have confidence in the integrity of Malaysia\u2019s systems, particularly its justice system, and in the integrity of its private sector law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThe Green Party contains nine paddlers who are facing the back of the canoe, not the front. I will respond to Dr Kennedy Graham\u2019s request for some practical examples of why the Greens\u2019 understanding of life is, in a practical sense, different from that of the other paddlers in this waka. The Green opposition to the bill is set out in a minority view in the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee\u2019s report back to Parliament: \u201CIt wrongly assumes that the two trading countries will both be better off as a result.\u201D of signing up to this agreement. How wrong can those members be? How muddled can their thinking be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EI think that the Greens may be using computers. If that is the case, I invite them to type the word \u201CRicardo\u201D\u2014R-I-C-A-R-D-O\u2014into Google, which is a search engine. Then they should read what it says about Mr Ricardo. His insight is that trade barriers\u2014whether they are subsidies to farmers, regulations prohibiting clothing or textile imports, or taxes\u2014will make us and Malaysia worse off. Ricardo argues that it does not matter whether Malaysia is better at making things than New Zealand. He says that each country should stick to what it does best and should stick to producing whatever its economy is best at turning out. Ricardo argues that even if New Zealand was worse at producing everything than Malaysia was, we should still stick to what we are least bad at producing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham asked for some practical examples; I will try to give him one. I have a company in Dannevirke called Metalcraft Industries. Let us say that it produces an electric drill in half an hour. It can also\u2014it has very good people working there\u2014produce a flat-screen television in about an hour. But a Malaysian worker can produce an electric drill in 20 minutes and a flat-screen television in 10 minutes. So if New Zealand and Malaysia do not trade, which is the outcome Dr Graham wants, nothing will change. It will take us 90 minutes to work to produce a flat-screen TV and a drill, while in Malaysia the TV and the drill can made in half an hour. So if we follow the Green Party way of looking at the world, nothing will change. But if we get rid of the trade barriers, as this bill aims to do, both countries can trade and both countries can be better off. The Malaysian worker can make two televisions in 20 minutes and the Dannevirke worker can make two drills in an hour. If we trade one drill for one TV, then both New Zealand and Malaysia will be better off because they save at least one-third of the time involved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EContrary to Green belief, it is simply not possible for trade to destroy all of the jobs in New Zealand. It is also impossible to import everything from abroad and export nothing. If we did that\u2014if we followed this Green utopia\u2014we would have no cash with which to buy anything. It may surprise the Greens, but goods and money do not just appear and disappear; they are interconnected. No one beyond New Zealand would accept a New Zealand dollar in payment for some other good or service if we were not exporting products like milk, cheese, wool, and timber so that our dollars can be used as a basis for paying back other countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EHaving gone down this road with Ricardo, my second suggestion is that \u201CDr Green\u201D and his paddlers going in the wrong direction could type into \u201CMr Google\u201D the words \u201CAbba Lerner\u201D\u2014A-B-B-A L-E-R-N-E-R\u2014and read what is arguably the most important theorem of trade theory. In 1936, before even Dr Kennedy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227863673764b9400182bd54b8dc5f40f8\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Kennedy Graham.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022702aef4605b744a892f2b79440618aa9\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Dr Kennedy Graham was born, Abba Lerner said that a tax on imports is exactly equivalent to a tax on exports, and he proved this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EFinally we could think about the practical examples Dr Graham asked for. We can think about countries that are restricted, like North Korea, and we can think about countries that are open, like South Korea. I then leave it to Dr Graham to determine who is the better-off from that openness of economy. We can think about Austria and we can think about Hungary. We can also think about our recent experience in signing the free-trade agreement with China. As I said in the House last night, in the year to April 2010 our exports to that country increased by $860 million. That is an increase over a 12-month period. That increase is virtually the same size as us finding another export market the size of Indonesia. Opening that free-trade agreement with China has helped every person in this country, and to some extent it has insulated New Zealand from the recession that we find ourselves in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EFinally, I say that this is a good bill. It is a good bill for the people of Dannevirke; it is a good bill for all of the people in the Wairarapa. It is good for all New Zealanders, and it is good for all Malaysians. It has my absolute support. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022b16685aa32384e4aa9c044534c9cd267\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b16685aa32384e4aa9c044534c9cd267\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E May I be the first member in this House to offer my congratulations to Julia Gillard, the new Australian Prime Minister. I understand that she won the vote. [Interruption] Sorry, Kevin Rudd stood down and she put herself forward. I understand that she is also the first female Australian Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226179c9d7ea6c4ab0a366f48decc01223\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: And the first ginga!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226da20f9f421146c18dfdf2afac2b338d\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: She will not be the last, so congratulations to Julia Gillard. I must admit that I tend to agree with John Hayes, in the sense that countries around the world must concentrate on their areas of competency. Having said that\u2014and this is sort of true free-market policy; Michael Porter, as we know, came out about 20 years ago to New Zealand and suggested such\u2014I also take on board Dr Kennedy Graham\u2019s comments. I think my colleague Grant Robertson and maybe even Maryan Street mentioned this as well. We cannot put trade in front of absolutely everything else. There are areas of national interest, or of great importance, where it makes sense to have certain barriers in place to protect them. If we look at the national interest documents for any free-trade agreement there are areas that are protected because they are considered more important than a complete and open free-trade agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI do find it slightly rich that National is lecturing the House on economic policy, because the Budget showed that its economic philosophy is outdated. It dates back to last century. I think this is probably the only Western democracy that is following the economic philosophy of the Regan and Thatcher years. I think National would find that the philosophies followed by the Americans, the Brits, the Canadians, and certainly this Labour Party, are based on much more updated and relevant economic policies that put money in the pockets of every New Zealander and are all about sustainable economic growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAlthough, as I said, I tend to agree with John Hayes that this bill is by far the best for all New Zealanders, there are risks involved. We acknowledge those risks; we understand those risks. However, I am supporting this bill because I think that it is in our national interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis free-trade agreement was signed in Kuala Lumpur on 26 October 2009. It provides New Zealand exporters, service providers, and investors with new market access, opportunities, and greater certainty and transparency in Malaysia. It builds significantly on the platform provided by the recently signed agreement establishing the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area. As has been noted, Malaysia is New Zealand\u2019s eighth-largest export market. Currently it is more important to New Zealand than, for example, Germany, India, or Canada. As has been mentioned in this House during this debate, it reinforces the fact that our traditional trading markets of Europe have now been replaced by the more dynamic and closer Asian economic block. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe commercial significance of the free-trade agreement is underlined by the robust and growing trade relationship between New Zealand and Malaysia. For an example, between 2004 and 2008 New Zealand goods exported to Malaysia grew by over 80 percent\u2014more than double the rate of New Zealand\u2019s export growth to the world over the same period. In 2008 New Zealand\u2019s exports were worth almost $1 billion, which is not insignificant by any stretch of the imagination. New Zealand\u2019s service exports to Malaysia have continued to grow in a range of sectors, including private education, which we talked about it. They provide the highest numbers of overseas PhD students to our universities, information computer technology, and engineering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAt the same time New Zealand investment in Malaysia has grown, albeit off a relatively low base, by an annual rate of 77 percent since 2003 to almost half a billion dollars in 2008. It is a very important market, but I will outline again my concern that I mentioned a couple of times\u2014that is, that this Government has not provided the companies that are in a position to take advantage of these free-trade agreements with the tools needed to do so. When I asked the Minister about this, he gave some sort of smart answer saying that he is asking people to do more for less. I do not think that actually works. One cannot ask people to do significantly more for significantly less. In this House\u2014and I am assuming this bill is going to be passed, because the vast majority of us agree with it\u2014in the last 24 hours we have passed a free-trade agreement with Hong Kong and with Malaysia. Recently we passed one with China. These markets are incredibly different from New Zealand. They have a different legal system, a different culture, a different way of doing business, and different religions\u2014in fact, everything is different\u2014yet 97 percent of our businesses are small to medium sized enterprises and simply cannot afford to employ an international marketer or an international market development manager. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EMr Groser said he would like to invite me to the next meeting with New Zealand Trade and Enterprise and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade. Well, I would like to go along to that. I would relay a story. There is a New Zealand exporter who is a very good friend of mine; I am very happy to provide the Minister with his name. He turned up at a pre-arranged time at a New Zealand Trade and Enterprise office for a meeting that had been arranged in New Zealand, only to be told that he should go to the equivalent office of the nation that he was in. He turned up there a little bit annoyed\u2014as one would if one has flown halfway across the world only to be told that one cannot be seen by New Zealand Trade and Enterprise\u2014only to be told by those people that the reason New Zealand Trade and Enterprise did not want to see him was that that was the day of their Christmas party. How professional is that? We want to send a message out there that New Zealanders are professional, we are competent, we know what we are doing, and we know how to do this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI saw a recent survey; I think it was presented by either the outgoing Minister of Trade or someone who came to the Labour economic caucus. We hear from a whole range of people; members would be surprised at the people who would like to talk to us because they are a little disillusioned with what is happening. The perceptions of New Zealand business people overseas are that we are unprofessional and we do not quite know what we are doing. We are a little bit lax, and there is this old No. 8 wire mentality that all we have to do is turn up, hand out a couple of All Black jerseys, give out a couple of bottles of wine and maybe a pottle of m\u0101nuka honey, and the deal is done. Then we sit down and we get pissed with them. No longer is that good enough in the 21st century. No longer is that sufficient to get the deals done. In this day and age of globalisation, we are competing with everyone. This free-trade agreement levels the playing field. Malaysia has free-trade agreements with Japan and ASEAN, and it is negotiating a free-trade agreement with the United States, etc. This is not the first, as it is with China. We are not the first to get in there and make it happen; this is just levelling the playing field. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWe need to be incredibly professional and diligent in the way we handle our international business. Quite frankly, having a New Zealand exporter turn up to a New Zealand Trade and Enterprise office, only to be told that he cannot be seen because it is the office\u2019s Christmas party, just reinforces the stereotypes that a lot of overseas business people have of New Zealand, and it has to change. It has to change if we are to take advantage of these free-trade agreements. That is why I have great concern that this Government has cut over $100 million from New Zealand Trade and Enterprise\u2019s budget over 4 years\u2014$100 million. That is not about doing more with less; it is about cutting services. It is about cutting essential services at a time when we are looking to develop markets into a whole new region. This is not about doing business with Australia or the UK, where rugby jerseys and sport are part of the local vernacular; this is about getting there and proving that New Zealand businesses are the most professional and can do the deals. Cutting $100 million from New Zealand Trade and Enterprise is not the way to do that. I would love to come to one of these meetings, I say to Mr Groser, and I would love to relay that story.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9d511c8733949559317cc97729aa8e9\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: He won\u2019t listen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212329a69e1ae4fe8af91c09e129940fc\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: The member is dead right. I would love to see the response of New Zealand Trade and Enterprise. I said to my friend when he told me this story that he should not worry about Tim Groser. He is a very good trade negotiator, but he has no weight around the Cabinet table, which has been proven by how much money has been cut from his budget. My friend should take his story to the Prime Minister. John Key would be absolutely annoyed if he heard that that is the way that officials are dealing with New Zealand businesses. I tell members that if Phil Goff, who has spent a considerable amount of time negotiating free-trade agreements on behalf of New Zealand, heard a story like that he would be ropeable\u2014absolutely ropeable\u2014because that is not the way we treat New Zealand businessmen and businesswomen who are going overseas to take advantage of these free-trade agreements. It is hard enough as it is, let alone with that sort of carry-on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI support this free-trade agreement. As I said, I take on board Dr Kennedy Graham\u2019s concerns, but having read the national interest analysis, having gone through the costs and the benefits, and understanding where New Zealand has to position itself, I have come to the conclusion that the benefits outweigh the costs of this free-trade agreement. I support it, and I congratulate Mr Groser on getting the ball across the line, so to speak. But also I very much acknowledge that Jim Sutton and Phil Goff did the vast majority of the grunt work for this free-trade agreement. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u00225868ce44ce5540f3aef46f5f52adbb86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225868ce44ce5540f3aef46f5f52adbb86\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the next speaker, I say that the member made an unparliamentary remark earlier on. I do not know whether he realised it, but I just ask the member to be very careful with some of the language. I did not pull him up at the time, but I just mention that. I am sure it was unintended, and I am not asking to take it further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce931917c5eb4881aee363d1e017c9ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce931917c5eb4881aee363d1e017c9ec\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I appreciate the comments of the previous speaker, my colleague Stuart Nash, in acknowledging the concerns of the Green Party. In fact, I think that both the debate on the New Zealand - Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement and all the stages of the debate on the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill have been, with the singular exception of the contribution from John Hayes, very constructive indeed. I welcome that from all other National Party colleagues, not the least of whom is Chris Tremain. I make the point, however, that nothing I have heard\u2014and I have listened very closely to everything that has been said in the debates on both the Hong Kong and Malaysian agreements\u2014changes our view with regard to the current manifestation of trade policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EIn the second reading John Hayes simply said China\u2019s exports have increased by $860 million, and that is fantastic. We recognise that that is a significant thing, but it is not everything. Chris Tremain admonished me to steer clear of theoretical models, and I appreciate that. I assure him that I shall not do that, but that I shall add a touch of practicality now and again to it, to satisfy him and his constituents. But after Chris Tremain offered that admonishment, he basically spoke in tones of awe\u2014and we can speak in tones of admiration, but not of awe\u2014about Zespri. That was his contribution. Cam Calder said the free-trade agreements boost exports, create jobs, and increase income. That is true, but it is not the total story. Tim Macindoe mentioned the environmental protocols, morris dancing, and Asian students in his electorate. I know that very well, having been to Waikato University recently and spoken to students at the Pacific college. Tim Groser said that free trade is not a religion, though he none the less spoke in papal tones, and now and again unctuously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EI just make the point that everything that the Government members have said is focused on exports. At no stage did they really address the issue of the effect on the domestic New Zealand economy, which is only one of the things that we are trying to get this House to focus on. The Government is being either blind or wilful, and it is not focusing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EOn the point of style, I just say that at least my colleagues Tim Macindoe, Chris Tremain, and others offered their derision in tones of good humour; that is appreciated. That cannot be said for John Hayes, whose patronising attitude was rendered in supercilious tones. It was quite different from the attitude of the other speakers. I will not reduce the dignity of the House any further by responding in kind, though I could. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EOn the note of whether we are going to competitively Google\u2014or be Googly competitive\u2014on this thing, I just offer the response that I actually studied Ricardo back in the 1960s; John Hayes and I are much the same age. I know Ricardo\u2019s theories very well indeed; in fact, we can go from Ricardo through Smith, Mill, Malthus, Marshall, Jevons, Keynes, Samuelson, Hicks, and Friedman\u2014yes, Friedman\u2014to understand the theory of economics and the theory of trade. I suggest that John Hayes goes through all of those people, as well. It does not stop with Ricardo; it only began with Ricardo. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EAnd, in fact, having completed that stony pilgrim\u2019s path, John Hayes should then, by invitation from me, investigate the whole theory of ecological economics, which is where the Green Party is coming from. If we recognised each other\u2019s theoretical framework with dignity and explored it, perhaps we could have a reasoned dialogue. I think that every member, except for the chair of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, will be prepared to do that. I invite members to study these people, whom they can Google: Tim Jackson, Herman Daly, Peter Victor, Robert Costanza, and J R McNeill. Then they will understand ecological economics\u2014both the domestic dimension of it, and the free-trade dimension. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EAll of that is simply to say the Green Party, having just been misrepresented, requires a reiteration of its policy. The Greens are not against trade, which is what Mr Hayes was misrepresenting. We are against unsustainable trade; we are against unfair trade. The Government\u2019s trade policy rests on a commitment to a neo-liberal\u2014yes, neo-liberal\u2014free trade. Globalised free trade is the manifestation of the problem of the globalised economy. The case for free trade rests on the assumption that trade is voluntary. This is getting at what Mr Hayes suggested we do get at. Both parties must be better off than before the voluntary act. When trade is based on the absolute advantage enjoyed by the countries in terms of the commodities in question, this is self-evident. But the Ricardian theory of comparative advantage also justifies trade even when one country may have an absolute advantage over another in all goods. The theory is that the combined production of all countries trading is greater than if they produced separately, and each country stands to gain individually, even if not to the same extent. That is the Ricardo theory. This theory derives from the fundamental tenets of neo-classical economics, I say again for the benefit of Mr Tremain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThe Green Party considers those tenets to be dangerously obsolescent, requiring refinement with a new approach that reflects the economic conditions of the 21st century. Specifically, let me make a number of points. First, the extra combined production from free trade cannot in fact be achieved without extra resource inputs. There is also the increase in the depletion rate of the natural resource base from which the product is made. What trade economists mean when they say no extra resources is simply no additional labour or financial capital. Neo-classical economics omits natural capital from its theories. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ESecond, the extra transport costs associated with free trade are not included in the theory. International transport is energy-intensive, often subsidised. Its external costs are omitted from the pricing. Sea trade emits 0.8 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide, 3 percent of anthropogenic emissions. That is expected to grow threefold by 2050. The same is expected of aviation and surface freight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThird, free trade assumes the cost of specialisation to be negligible. But, in fact, it requires retraining and perhaps physical relocation. As specialisation shrinks, the economic sectoral breadth of the country\u2019s job choice narrows. This comprises a loss to human welfare. The invisible hand has narrowed the freedom to choose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EFourth, although free-trade agreements have withdrawal clauses such that New Zealand can theoretically opt out if trade becomes disadvantageous, this assumes that specialisation is reversible. But, in fact, the retraining and relocation of a furniture maker to enable that person to become a dairy sharemilker, apart from being socially traumatic, may be irreversible for social, communal reasons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EFifth, the specialisation resulting from free trade bequeaths a narrow range of sectoral products country by country, making each country vulnerable to the vagaries of the global economy. Taking the argument to the extreme, if New Zealand were to narrow its sectoral breadth\u2014and that is what Mr Hayes, and perhaps even Mr Groser, are suggesting\u2014to become a national dairy farm, surrendering its capacity to maintain our other economic activities, it would become a milk colony to the global economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EFinally, much international trade is pursued in the name of choice, to ludicrous lengths. When marginally different varieties of ice-cream, biscuits, and crackers pass east and west across the Tasman in the night, such activity not only defies consumer rationality but also, in an age of climate change, defies basic common sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThere are both theoretical and very practical moral and environmental reasons not to pursue free-trade agreements in the current form that they manifest. For that reason the Green Party will oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002291d812d1b6b142359eeb634afbe8a3c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291d812d1b6b142359eeb634afbe8a3c2\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E The Malaysia - New Zealand Free Trade Agreement represents significant opportunities for New Zealand, and although it is my pleasure to follow on from the contribution of the Green member on green economics, I have a slightly different view. That might be because I am a rural-based MP who represents the farming sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EHere is my take on this free-trade agreement. Dr Kennedy Graham gave us three to four points, so I will give a couple. First, New Zealand is a small country in a large world. Second, New Zealand\u2019s economy relies on exports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225916b9d67b4c49f4b9f48a1e7a715703\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: No, it doesn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dafddea2679b4d04a4bbaf1734963a65\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it does. Third, New Zealand\u2019s primary produce makes up a huge proportion of total New Zealand exports. Fourth, about half of those exports go into the ASEAN region. So for me at least it follows that free-trade agreements\u2014and this one in particular, since we are speaking to the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill\u2014represent significant opportunities for us in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThis agreement follows on from the free-trade agreements with China and Hong Kong. Those bills were debated and passed in the House last night. They represent a huge opportunity as well, as do free-trade agreements with ASEAN countries for primary producers of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESpecifically speaking to New Zealand\u2019s major goods that are exported to Malaysia, I mention kiwifruit. It has been spoken of often in this debate but I believe that it bears mentioning again. Currently kiwifruit exports incur a 15 percent tariff from Malaysia. That tariff will go and it will become duty-free by 2012\u2014only 2 years away. That is only one and a half growing seasons away. If that is not exciting for the kiwifruit growers of New Zealand, then I do not know what is. I think it is exciting. Based on the latest figures, New Zealand\u2019s kiwifruit exports to Malaysia have grown by\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a2121fd98c743869a1737950d9e3646\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Heaps.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227116cc7e436d4cca86ea7e291de37870\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: The member opposite just said the word \u201Cheaps\u201D. That was the kind of simplistic term used by Labour members. However, we can be slightly more precise. Members opposite may say that New Zealand\u2019s kiwifruit exports to Malaysia have increased \u201Cheaps\u201D, but I think it bears repeating that it has increased by 173 percent, to be more precise. That is very impressive. Meat, wool, dairy\u2014that excludes liquid milk\u2014fish, and forestry retain their duty-free access as products and are bound in, so that Malaysia cannot reapply tariffs on New Zealand agricultural exports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESpeaking as a representative of a rural electorate where agriculture is incredibly important, I can only repeat my congratulations to the Minister of Trade, Tim Groser, for his good work in negotiating this free-trade agreement with Malaysia, which was not easy. Again, it represents huge opportunities for New Zealand. We should be grateful to the Minister and grasp this opportunity with both hands. With those few words, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022550c40b4d95543ad9dd0521d8203d03b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022550c40b4d95543ad9dd0521d8203d03b\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to have another opportunity to speak to this bill in its third reading. In my second reading speech I touched on not only the elements of what makes a successful free-trade agreement but also the context under which they are then, for want of a better word, operationalised. For me, obviously, the first starting point for a successful free-trade agreement is that it is well negotiated, and that we work through some of the many and varied complications that these free-trade agreements present. We see in the detail of this one, in particular, some interesting issues arising out of margarine, at some point. Also there were exceptions in the free-trade agreement around the trade of alcohol, and there were cultural and religious issues. So these are very complex free-trade agreements that are being negotiated, and their success revolves around the prowess of our negotiating teams. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ESecondly, I also had an opportunity to touch briefly on the environment under which our exporters operate generally in New Zealand, and the economic framework and monetary policy we have in New Zealand. It has a significant impact on them as exporters, particularly the volatility of our exchange rate. I issue a challenge to the Government to consider that issue if we are truly going to have the export-led recovery it claims. That is the second point I wanted to raise in relation to free-trade agreements generally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThirdly, once a free-trade agreement has been agreed, as Stuart Nash and others have pointed out in this debate, it is not a matter of allowing that free-trade agreement to then sit on the table and just exist. There is a lot of investment that can go into making a free-trade agreement a success for our New Zealand exporters by supporting them and boosting our investment in New Zealand Trade and Enterprise to support them appropriately. We can also do that by making sure that we maintain our brand and trade on our brand appropriately off the back of these free-trade agreements. There are other elements that we may not be debating directly as a consequence but that are still incredibly relevant to our success as an exporting nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBefore I go on to talk about some of the economic benefits of this free-trade agreement, I briefly want to touch on my disappointment at the way Government members in particular have responded to the challenges put up by the Green Party today. I think they were patronising at best and offensive at worst, and we should always\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b2b768a0c3f4f7ab91396ef6c31c3cf\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: It must\u2019ve been Paul Quinn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ebe3b6740b04a9a99920f96115c6b5b\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Strangely, it was not Paul Quinn on this occasion. John Hayes really outdid himself in his contribution this time. The Greens raised some valid issues that are raised around trade almost every time we have this debate. When we are discussing free-trade agreements, there are very valid issues around human rights. The first point I would like to make on that front is that I support a negotiated and agreed rule-based global system of trade. Having said that, it is also very valid that we think about the implications for a broadening of free trade, given our role as a nation that has very strong labour law and that is developed, around the impact we can have on some of our trading partners who may not have entrenched in their systems some of the rules that operate in our own. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI am talking about a level of corporate responsibility being exercised in the way we operate in some of those nations. If the large amount of time we spend talking about how to better negotiate the free movement of butter were spent talking about how we globalise some of the most essential core elements of human rights, then we would be a long way down the track to making some vast improvements to labour laws, for a starting point, globally. So that is just a small point on that issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI come back to the economic benefits of this particular free-trade agreement. I think it has already been mentioned that Malaysia is New Zealand\u2019s eighth-largest export market and that it totalled about $1 billion in trade in 2008. It might be a useful comparison to point out that that is the same amount of debt the Government is adding to New Zealand in order to deliver its tax cuts in the last Budget. I think it probably points to the magnitude of both that export market and that level of debt. In fact, we have actually wiped out the benefits of this free-trade agreement in one fell swoop. Between 2004 and 2008 exports to Malaysia grew significantly, by 80 percent. It has been estimated that this agreement eliminates tariffs to 99.5 percent of New Zealand\u2019s current exports by 2016. My understanding is that there are exemptions in that for alcohol, which I touched on briefly. The percentage of estimated duties that New Zealand exporters would have to pay will be reduced by 86 percent by 2016, which is incredibly significant. It is useful to point out that when we compare that with New Zealand, there is duty-free access to 72 percent of imports from Malaysia. I think it is worth making the point that a lot of these free-trade agreements, in particular the one with China, are free-trade agreements that are primarily beneficial to New Zealand in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThere was a lot of discussion over whether the China free-trade agreement should have been used as an opportunity for New Zealand instead to prove a point on our political position on democracy, labour laws, and human rights, and whether we should proceed with a free-trade agreement. It is an interesting debate to have, but at the end of the day the point was well made that when we have, in the same way we have with Malaysia, a situation where that country already has very open access to New Zealand markets, we are in a sense cutting off our nose to spite our face. Having said that, it does not mean that we do not still have a duty to ensure that those issues, where they exist, are put on the table when the opportunity arises in those diplomatic negotiations, or leader to leader, or however we choose. That is a trade-off that was made in that particular scenario. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EFinally, there has been great discussion over the benefit of this agreement for Zespri in particular. It is an excellent example of where this agreement has been beneficial. I know that one of my colleagues is not as enthusiastic about kiwifruit as I am. I undertake to find out what benefits it will have for nectarines as I understand that that is Clayton Cosgrove\u2019s fruit of preference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a1eb82fa249448cac39c37812fb7800\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: His passion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cae18c802c2425a85615128b62efac8\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: There is some passion for the nectarine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a952f6df94654adaa56f61b4f5210d58\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: And feijoas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209434678ffb34e4fb8a1e0f9a035d98e\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: He is also partial to the feijoa, so I undertake to find out whether that will have a significant impact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ENew Zealand steel lines, which currently face a 50 percent tariff, will be tariff free. I would have thought that that would be the perfect excuse for the Government to perhaps reduce the enormous subsidies it is putting in place for such producers by the emissions trading scheme. I understand that my generation will be covering off those subsidies for the next 50 years. Given we are removing tariffs for that particular industry and it will make a cost saving, perhaps we could balance what is currently an emissions trading scheme that has no incentives to reduce pollution built into it. That might be something that one of my other colleagues might like to pick up on in his or her contribution. Otherwise, I reiterate that Labour supports this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u00227584d52914b0483b8cd033c5f9a21f6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227584d52914b0483b8cd033c5f9a21f6e\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill. It is undoubtedly another great achievement for the National Government, although I must note that the genesis of it has been over a long period of time. It would even date back to the days when the current Speaker, the Hon Dr Lockwood Smith\u2014not the Assistant Speaker who is currently in the Chair\u2014was spending time up in that area. Often it takes time to achieve\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231d5c74c38694f44910306eb8c14f4bb\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Good things take time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f79db6ba5754456936ef75c13f242b7\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. Undoubtedly, not only will this agreement have the effect of expanding our vital trade with Malaysia and the remainder of the Asian area but also tariff reduction will be sped up at a far greater rate than was expected to occur under the initial agreement that established the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThere is no doubt that that is wonderful for some of our most important innovative products. Kiwifruit is the classic example. We were absolutely dazzled by the innovation of Zespri the other night. It brought us its new varieties of kiwifruit: a particularly sweet one designed for the Asian market, not to mention the pink one, which would suit the Labour Opposition, but it was a fine fruit. The real point of this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b4df3b568da4366b98c98611a98fd1f\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s a point? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223db418c296cb4976849c782e3372a44b\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: There is a huge point, and it is that kiwifruit is a little fruit that had very little significance anywhere in the world until New Zealand innovators grasped it by its skin and made it a highly valuable export product. Obviously, this free-trade agreement is a living example of New Zealand\u2019s benefiting from that approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI was intrigued by the contribution of Dr Kennedy Graham. As always it was extremely thoughtful. I must say that we cannot agree with all the thoughts behind it, but I look forward to having a look at the list of names of environmental economists that he read out. For me, a simple-minded physician surgeon, I often think of the words of Galbraith, who pointed out that economics were common sense made complicated. Some of the thoughts of Kennedy Graham did seem to be a trifle complicated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EIt was interesting to hear the contribution from the Minister of Trade, Tim Groser, who has made a tremendous contribution not only to this agreement but also to many others. He mentioned that econometric models on the impact of tariff removal clearly are very problematic to rely on, but he went on to say that free trade is a pragmatic way of advancing the welfare of New Zealanders and of the other country that is involved. It is extremely important to realise that this agreement is just one of the many free-trade agreements that New Zealand is entering into. The countries involved do not just include China; before too long they are likely to include India, Indonesia, and the USA, which means almost half of the world\u2019s population. There is no doubt that free trade is a pragmatic way of advancing the welfare of New Zealanders, because we are an exporting nation, and free trade is the pragmatic way by which we will have, if we are successful in exporting, first-class education, first-class health services, first-class welfare services, etc.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EBut it is also important that we respect the fundamental cultural differences between countries. I keep being reminded of those in the areas of tobacco, yes, and alcohol, etc. but also on a day-to-day basis. I had a group of Malaysian teachers in my office this Monday afternoon up in Pukekohe, and I asked them what they were doing in terms of climate change. They said that pervading their school system was a great and increasing consciousness of practical measures to improve the environment. So it is very refreshing that, for one of the first times ever, environmental protocols are built into this agreement. I think Kennedy Graham was slightly sceptical about that\u2014and he has a furrowed brow on my saying that\u2014but it is a very important start in terms of practical implementation. Hopefully, that will be part of the agreement that has been achieved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThis agreement is incredibly important for an exporting nation such as New Zealand. I was delighted to hear from Jacinda Ardern that steel tariffs will be coming off. That is vital for the area I represent, Hunua, and, clearly, it is vital for the future of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00223246de1b29834c7691748a24f7e697fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223246de1b29834c7691748a24f7e697fd\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call in the third reading of the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill. We have had an extremely interesting debate today. Although the matters we are debating in this urgency motion call into question the meaning of the word \u201Curgency\u201D, the opportunity we have been offered here today has been useful. I congratulate members on all sides of the House for their contributions, particularly Dr Kennedy Graham. There is a broad consensus between National and Labour on the issue of free trade, although there are some differences in emphasis and nuance. The Green Party has a different view, and I think it is good that Dr Graham has taken the opportunity to put those views out there. As I have said in earlier speeches, I certainly share some of the concerns he raised about an absolutist approach to free trade. Free trade is not magic and it is not the panacea for all things. To my mind it is an important part of our economic well-being, and it is part of a global economy in which people can get the benefits of their labours, but it is not everything. It should not be put up on a pedestal as being, in some way or other, above and beyond rigorous analysis, and that analysis is what Dr Graham brought to the debate today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAs a number of other speakers have mentioned, this is a high-quality bilateral free-trade agreement. It makes a number of positive moves in advance of the ASEAN free-trade agreement. I think it is good when we are working on free-trade agreements to build on what has been done earlier. The ASEAN free-trade agreement offers a lot of potential for New Zealand exporters, but in a number of key areas this agreement brings in tariff reductions well in advance of that period of time. As with other agreements, there are phased tariff reductions in the Malaysian free-trade agreement, but 95 percent of those reductions will take place on the day that this agreement comes into force, once the House has dealt with it. That is a very impressive achievement, of which all of the officials, not only those from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade but also those from other departments who have been involved, can be justifiably proud. The final phase of bringing in tariff reductions will be by 2016, and that will get us to, as was stated earlier, 99.5 percent of the tariffs being removed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis is indeed an excellent agreement. It is one that offers huge scope for manufacturers, exporters, and service providers. Our trade with Malaysia has a large component to do with the export of goods, but it also has a growing component around services and a historical connection to services, particularly in the education area. There is a lot in this agreement that New Zealand can be proud of, and a lot that we can also see an opportunity to exploit. As was stated in earlier readings, the 0.5 percent of tariffs that remain are mainly as a result of discussions on cultural and religious matters, particularly to do with alcohol. I restate the comment I made in the Committee stage that I believe the way the national interest analysis describes New Zealand\u2019s enthusiasm for 100 percent of the tariffs to be removed is a little unfortunate. The recognition from both Mr Groser and Dr Graham in the earlier part of the debate was that we have to respect other countries where there are issues, particularly those of a cultural or religious nature. I think that brings us back to my concern that New Zealand has from time to time in trade negotiations taken a very absolutist stance. That is not only potentially difficult in terms of our respect for other countries\u2019 cultural and religious beliefs but also, from a negotiating point of view, it has sometimes put New Zealand in a less than advantageous position, when we have pretty much given everything away while still trying to negotiate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe other aspect I want to reflect on again is the importance of the environment and labour cooperation agreements, which are of a treaty status. They sit alongside the free-trade agreement and are to be considered together as being the engine room of the next stage of our relationship with Malaysia. In the past those agreements have sometimes been seen as just add-ons that were there to placate people who think we need free trade to be more than just free trade, and that it should be seen in a wider economic context. I take comfort from the Minister\u2019s statement that he understands that environment cooperation and labour cooperation are now an important part of our negotiations with other countries. There are a lot of opportunities for New Zealanders in the environmental area in terms of services, and I think that the environmental cooperation agreement can be used for leverage for those service providers. We also need to learn from the Malaysians, because all over Asia at the moment issues about sustainable development loom large for Governments and for people. We need to be there, contributing our skill and technical knowledge, learning from what has been developed in those countries, and making sure that as part of our ongoing relationship with these countries we have strong environmental standards and strong labour standards. New Zealand can be proud of the fact that we have led the way in making those a part of free-trade agreements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI conclude by again congratulating the Minister of Trade, and indeed previous Ministers Phil Goff and Jim Sutton, on having brought us to the position where we are today. I hope that the Malaysia free-trade agreement will not only see an increase in wealth for New Zealanders through increased exports and services but also see a deeper, stronger relationship between New Zealand and Malaysia, across trade, environment, labour, and other fronts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ac9983801e6342ce8c5a53998a3871d1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Tariff (Malaysia Free Trade Agreement) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 3 (Flavell, Sharples, Turia); Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 2 (Harawira. Katene).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229c556d2cc0e64615bfce3669a7b26f05\u0022\u003EMotor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ec41b055101b4f50afc1f4eb12747064\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000287\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 30 June 2009.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9f2922425f34e85bcd0f8921aa15f46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9f2922425f34e85bcd0f8921aa15f46\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in the second reading of the Motor Vehicles Sales Amendment Bill 2009. Labour is supporting this bill, but it baffles me as to why it is being prioritised in urgency. In fact, reflecting on that this morning while I was considering what I would say, I decided that we should be calling the bill the \u201CMotor Vehicle Sales Very Urgent Amendment Bill\u201D. This raises issues about the priorities the Government is applying to this legislation. Government members seem to think that one of the most important things the House should be giving its attention to today is a bill to reduce the compliance costs for used car salespeople, but as my colleague Chris Hipkins said in his speech on the first reading, that sums up the National Government. This bill is so urgent that the last time I spoke on it, during the first reading, was 30 June 2009, so it is a very urgent bill that we must pass today\u2014in urgency! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAlthough this bill is important and very urgent, and we do support it, I ask whether it will address the primary concerns that are facing many New Zealanders right now, and I ask why National is prioritising it when the House should be using its valuable time to consider measures to protect New Zealand jobs. Just this week about 175 meatworkers at Bernard Matthews Waipukurau plant are being laid off. That was reported in Hawke\u2019s Bay Today on 17 June. That follows Silver Fern Farms\u2019 announcement last week that it plans to cut 174 jobs at two of its Christchurch meat plants. These job cuts reflect a worrying trend, and have prompted\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4ee5b50c2e84704aee232381af40047\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The bill we are actually talking to is the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill. I do not need to explain any more. I think we are getting away from that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f578f4f4903421f86969bd081e360a7\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The member has raised a point of order of relevancy, and a second reading is the tightest debate that we have. I ask the member to refer specifically to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f5f99a4fd434ec7b548f26d42b95ae7\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: In addressing the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill, I was referring to a worrying editorial in the Otago Daily Times. It described New Zealand\u2019s meat industry as heading for a train crash, and that was reported on 15 June. Our meat industry is very important, along with our rail engineering industry and many other industries. Yet although we are dealing with the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill, this Government prefers to sit on its hands and do nothing about that industry or many of the other industries where major job losses are occurring. Instead, the Government seems to believe that the House\u2019s time is better devoted to legislation on the sale of used cars, rather than on the livelihoods and well-being of New Zealand workers and their families. Many of those people are not able, or are struggling to afford, to run a car, let alone consider selling one and buying another one, because of the rising costs they are facing and the cost of living, particularly in relation to electricity and petrol costs as a result of the emissions trading scheme\u2014costs that are being put on to ordinary consumers. Ordinary people are also facing rises in GST, which will affect them, and many of them are losing their jobs and struggling to find new jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhile I was reflecting on the bill and its importance in this context, I started to think about the used cars that I myself have owned over the years, and about the number of cars that other members of the House have owned. I certainly know that our very well-respected Speaker, Dr Lockwood Smith, takes a great interest in cars. I reflected on my first car, and thought I would share with the House a little story about it. It was a motor vehicle that was bought and sold on a number of occasions, being constructed in 1948 and being a Morris 10. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fa4d22ceecf4a89b3375b2a63ef9472\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Very nice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c6bf8970cb7407bbd08090df74f49c3\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: It was a very nice car, and it cost $125. It was bought, I think, in about 1978 or 1979. His name was Maurice. When I bought him he was in a paddock. Being a 1948 Morris 10 he had running boards and the old side indicators.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248d005c903f44ca7ac999f05db712dd3\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: Did it have an iPad?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5afc0250c2d4cb28659cf2fd91f1a87\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: No, but there was a crank that I had to turn sometimes when the engine would not work. With reference to the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill, Maurice served me well for a number of years and was eventually replaced by a 1959 Volkswagen. When I reflect on that I think that a number of members of the House will have owned a number of vehicles during their lifetime and many of them would have been used cars, and that would be very relevant to this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EOn a more serious note I point out that the Motor Vehicle Sales Act 2003 came into force in December 2003, and it replaced the Motor Vehicle Dealers Act 1975. The Motor Vehicle Sales Act made fundamental changes to the way in which sales of motor vehicles were regulated. This bill amends the Motor Vehicle Sales Act, which was passed by the Labour Government in December 2003. The objective of the Motor Vehicle Sales Act 2003 was to promote and protect the interests of consumers in relation to their motor vehicles sales, but, sadly, by that time Maurice had been sold and passed on, and I think he ended up in a paddock with, again, plants growing through him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe aim of this bill is to reduce compliance costs, close loopholes, and improve the effective operation of the Motor Vehicle Sales Act. That Act sought to introduce a new registration regime for motor vehicle traders and make them more accountable to consumers but also to offer some degree of flexibility for participants in the motor vehicle industry. The policy underpinning the Act had several core elements to ensure accountability, and accountability is a very, very important word. It is something that as members of the House we all take very seriously. These elements included the requirement for those trading vehicles to be registered, for more disclosure concerning used motor vehicles, and for the provision for consumer remedy through the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal. This bill increases the financial limit on the jurisdiction of the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal from $50,000 to $100,000, and it is vitally important that consumers have avenues for recourse when it comes to trading. The bill also intends to reduce for traders the compliance costs that are currently associated with requiring an annual statutory declaration to be made as part of the registration renewal process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill was referred to the Commerce Committee on 30 Jun 2009, which happened to be the date almost a year ago on which I last spoke on the bill. Now it is very urgent and back in the House today during urgency for its second reading. The closing date for submissions was 20 August 2009, and the Commerce Committee reported back to the House on 14 December 2009. So that is about 6 months\u2014it is 6 months and 10 days ago. We received and considered eight submissions from interested groups and individuals, and we heard two submissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI would like to thank my fellow select committee members for their work on this bill, as well as the Ministry of Consumer Affairs for its advice. As a member of the Commerce Committee I have helped examine the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill and recommend that it pass with a number of amendments. It would also be interesting to hear today from other members about their own experiences with used cars. It would be good to hear any interesting stories they could share with the House. I have owned only one car that had a name, and it would be interesting to know whether other members have named their cars. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u002223d911de06234e16a29606c8c2dd00e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223d911de06234e16a29606c8c2dd00e8\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the next member, it might be helpful if members of the House acquainted themselves with the rules for debate on a second reading. They can be found in Speakers\u2019 rulings 105/5 to 106/6. The rules may exclude members talking about the names of their cars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022db1fb9895d004ac8ae17028e2e2868fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db1fb9895d004ac8ae17028e2e2868fc\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E I will take just a short call on the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill. Before I refer to the bill, I would like to diverge slightly. I understand that Australia has a new Prime Minister, and I think it is a good time to acknowledge Julia Gillard and to wish her well. I thank Prime Minister Rudd for his efforts over the last 2\u00BD years in governing our closest ally, Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill promotes and protects consumers\u2019 interests. It also creates an environment of confidence where consumers can choose and purchase vehicles. The previous speaker, Clare Curran, said this bill would be passed today under urgency, but it will not. It will have its second reading today but it will not be passed\u2014that is, through all stages\u2014under urgency. This bill is in line with the National Government\u2019s efforts to reform regulations, to cut red tape, and to reduce compliance costs. Compliance costs are not just about form-filling for the sake of form-filling, and they are not about recording for the sake of recording. They are not about paying administration fees and costs for the sake of paying fees and costs and creating more bureaucracy. One of this Government\u2019s six policy drivers is to boost long-term economic growth. That is about creating jobs, lifting incomes, raising living standards, and cutting regulation and red tape. This bill fits within our long-term strategic plan for this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI will talk about a few parts of the bill that the previous speaker did not refer to. In fact, I will address the bill, because the previous speaker did not. It amends the process for traders renewing their annual registration and reducing compliance costs, as we have already stated. It will make annual statutory declarations part of a registration renewal, which I think is critical. It is about closing the loopholes around preventing the automatic banning of traders whose registration has lapsed. The bill is also about removing requirements for private sellers at car markets\u2014that is, not sellers in the market place, but private sellers\u2014who want to display consumer information notices. The bill also increases the financial limit at which cases may be heard by the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal from $50,000 to $100,000. I think that that is in line with not just inflation but also the pricing of motor vehicles as time goes on. Finally, it also allows the tribunal to award costs for non-attendance of either party to the dispute and it allows the decisions to be published. I think that that is a critical part of the bill. It provides incentives for justice to prevail, and it also provides for the accountability and the transparency of those decisions so that the public may see how such decisions are made and how they are disclosed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EWe heard this bill in the Commerce Committee. Admittedly, the prior speaker did refer to it being over a year since the first reading, but we heard submissions and we worked through the bill in what I thought was a collaborative way\u2014as we do in that select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c15be2c16b7745afbfda3f6a379aa32c\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: We certainly do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1302420480e42f5ba5655c47d7434bc\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: We certainly do. It is a bill that is to be commended for its overall purpose. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022fff1baf21e074ea8898a4263bbd9572b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fff1baf21e074ea8898a4263bbd9572b\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to stand in this moment of urgency to also make a contribution on the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill. I was not a member of the Commerce Committee, but I was pleased that I was able to stand here with my colleagues who worked so cooperatively to get this bill through the committee. We are supporting the second reading of this bill. The bill really builds on, and amends slightly, the Motor Vehicle Sales Act 2003, which was enacted by the previous Labour Government. This bill was worked on under Labour. It has been heard in this House. It was brought to this House over a year ago, and now in urgency we are, hopefully, going to progress it quickly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EI will refer to a couple of points about the purpose of this bill, which is obviously to promote the interests of consumers in relation to motor vehicle sales. We hear a lot about the trustworthiness or not of used-car salespeople. They are often likened to politicians\u2014all that we can do, I think, is to raise their profile in the hope that perhaps our profile might be raised as well! The bill makes a number of changes. It helps to reduce compliance costs. It helps the people in the industry with those compliance costs, but, at the same time, it ensures that consumers are guaranteed protection in the buying and selling of used cars. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EAs I said before, the bill amends, not dramatically but slightly, the principal Act of 2003, which was brought in under the previous Government. The policy of that Act had several core elements. There was a requirement for those who trade in motor vehicles to be registered; it required the disclosure of information concerning motor vehicles; and it provided for consumer redress through the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal. In many ways it was very good legislation, designed to try to tidy up matters, and to give clarity and certainty to people who are involved in buying and selling motor vehicles, particularly to consumers. However, the fact that this bill has come back to the House now, under urgency, is somewhat perplexing. I would not have thought that we needed to work until midnight to try to progress this bill, but nevertheless, now that it is here and all sides of the House agree on it, I guess the point is to get it through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EA requirement of the 2003 Act was that it be reviewed after 2 years. The Ministry of Consumer Affairs completed that review, and it was tabled in the House in 2006. The review considered how the registration process, the banning provisions, the information disclosure process, and the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal were operating. This amendment bill flows out of that review of the Act\u2019s operation. The review made a number of recommendations. I will not go through them all, but I think that the first recommendation is important. Clause 9 sets out an amendment to section 39(2) of the Act, to remove the requirement for motor vehicle traders to make an annual statutory declaration of their trading details where those have not changed. That is replaced by a requirement to confirm with each annual renewal that details have not changed. In many ways it is a very simple change, but it lessens the requirements on motor vehicle traders to jump through hoops when that is largely unnecessary. The Labour Party, just like any other party, certainly supports any moves that will enable business in New Zealand to progress more speedily and with the minimum amount of obstacles in its way, so it supports those moves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EOne of the technical recommendations in the review was to amend the cc rating of motorcycles. It recommended that paragraph (b)(iii) of the definition of \u201Cmotor vehicle\u201D in section 6 of the Act be amended to exclude motorcycles up to 50cc, not 60cc as it is currently worded, in order to reflect the ratings used in other relevant legislation. That brings the Act more or less into line with other legislation. It is more or less a technical change, and again it perplexes me that we are here under urgency to ensure that those sorts of changes are made. Why is moving from 60cc to 50cc in a definition considered to be so urgent that we have to put this bill through under urgency? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThe review recommended extending the inspection powers to the Commerce Commission. It recommended that consideration be given to amending the inspection powers set out in sections 124 to 129 of the principal Act to also include the Commerce Commission, to allow appropriate enforcement of the information provisions of the Act, and it also explored including such inspection powers within the Fair Trading Act 1986, as well. I think this provision in a sense extends the comfort zone and the security that consumers have in the buying and selling of used cars and motor vehicles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EIn that line, I say my first car, by the way, was called Molly. It was a 1958 Morris Minor van. I currently own a 1957 MGA, which actually does not have a name. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bcafecf3ded4435a2c7103c5769d66e\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: So you\u2019ve gone backwards!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc3e794df8bc450083d99356aeed33da\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: I have gone backwards, rather than moving forwards. I have been unsuccessfully trying to restore my MGA for the last 12 or 15 years. It is a hole that I pour money into, according to my wife. But I am diverging from this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EI will get back to recommendation No. 8 of the review, which was about the ability to award costs to any party for non-attendance at a Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal hearing. Clause 23 of the bill amends clause 14 of schedule 1 of the Act to allow costs to be awarded against any party to a claim for non-attendance at a hearing for no good cause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EOnce again, I say the bill tidies up a lot of the provisions of the legislation enacted in 2003. The review of that Act was done in 2006, so it has been sitting there now for 4 years, and we have wanted to address its recommendations. It is good that that is being done now, but I repeat the point that I have made before about this bill being debated in urgency. My belief is that urgency should be used for critical legislation that needs to go through in a particular time and that will have an important bearing on New Zealand. I do not really think that this bill meets those particular criteria.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022b835467470a34e44b8b08148dfea7a62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b835467470a34e44b8b08148dfea7a62\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora koutou. It is interesting that New Zealanders seem to have an extraordinarily close and intense relationship with their motor cars. We have already heard evidence of that. I am tempted myself to start telling stories of cars owned, and of those I would have liked to own or wish I had not owned, at different times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eadbc5a6fa844b1588f055cd1ad7a416\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Did you have one with a name?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022653d38e50ace4d8d9a65ad3d3a12c3cf\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yes! It is true that we do have a particularly emotional attachment to those things, albeit they are only steel, rubber, and glass. Nevertheless, we still engage with them at a level different from the level at which we engage with other commodities and home appliances, which is essentially what they can be reduced to. For that reason alone, it is important that we have adequate consumer protection in relation to the buying and selling of motor cars, and this Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill takes us some steps closer towards that. Cars are named typically as being the second most expensive item that people will purchase after a home. In the age of $10,000 television sets, perhaps that is not quite as true as it once was, nevertheless they are a significant investment. For that reason, we need to endeavour to make sure that people are reasonably well protected when they go out to purchase those quite expensive items. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe car business has historically attracted its share of rogues, and perhaps even more than its share of rogues. It just seems to be one of those industries\u2014again, perhaps, because of the emotional connection that people feel with cars. People get involved in the buying and selling of cars for all sorts of reasons, not all of them beneficial. I think the amendment that proposes\u2014that insists, in fact\u2014that new management coming into a company must be named, in order that people have a clear sense of whom they are actually dealing with, is good. It is very difficult to mount an argument that cars are actually an asset; in fact, they are a serious liability for most people. Business people are increasingly recognising that, through choosing to lease rather than purchase their vehicles. Nevertheless, for most people a car is still a major asset.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI think it is valuable and important that an amendment in this bill proposes some attention to the Internet purchases of vehicles. If it is possible to enter into a contract to purchase a car online, then there should be sufficient provision for accurate and complete identification, and so on. I did a quick check a couple of weeks ago, when it seemed that this bill might be debated in the House, and I discovered that on TradeMe something like 32,000 vehicles were for sale, of which 25,000 were identified as being in private sales. About 7,000 vehicles, then, on a given day are available for sale from dealers. Clearly, the Internet is a significant medium these days for the purchase of vehicles, so it is important that this legislation on motor vehicle purchasing keeps up with the reality that more and more people are going to a screen and a mouse in order to purchase vehicles, which is a mixed blessing in itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI have said that many of us have an emotional connection with cars, and I am certainly one of those. My first car was also of 1948 vintage. I recently owned a car for 9 years, but that ownership ended when a runaway truck destroyed it. I have gone back and bought a 1985 vehicle, which was made in New Zealand, I am pleased to say. I suspect that it will give many years of service. I look forward to the day when the emotional connection with cars will be reduced because we will have options in the form of a fast, efficient, reliable, modern public transport system. I think our attachment to cars is very much because historically they have given us a mobility that we have not been able to achieve by other means, given the absence of investment over 50 or more years in modern, efficient public transport. At that point, I will end my remarks. Kia ora koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022058bc42246ac48f39ea909fce518cb5d\u0022\u003E Points of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4e7f0934ea247988be7c91e44cea290\u0022\u003EHolidays (Football World Cup) Amendment Bill\u2014Leave to Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb6b6302ec084d3b9a4d1bc0a314b402\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb6b6302ec084d3b9a4d1bc0a314b402\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave for the House to set aside 1 hour before it rises today to debate and, if it sees fit, pass all stages of the Holidays (Football World Cup) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1457b4495c64a2c8bfd92d418a52e99\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fef7edcc8f1e464dacd611a7fc9b49a2\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a8b19ba0b899489fbf5150e0077d3091\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002275a234899ed64e0da533503575b9c033\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6e885e023a54bf28b58a62253443265\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6e885e023a54bf28b58a62253443265\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he received on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f962a7513e6b409992fa570d416cb02b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f962a7513e6b409992fa570d416cb02b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Statistics New Zealand today reported that real GDP grew by 0.6 percent in the March quarter. The economy has now grown by 1.9 percent over the past four quarters, following the contraction that began at the start of 2008. The continuing recovery, which is broadly aligned with that of our trading partners, is good news, because it helps to create new jobs and raise New Zealand\u2019s living standards. However, there is significant work to do. The economy has recovered only about half of the fall that it incurred during 2008, and growth is mixed across the sectors. That is why the Government will continue with its policy programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffce803a5e1b4740b9e29f0eb94221cc\u0022\u003EKatrina Shanks\u003C/span\u003E: What challenges does the economy face?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1af604c5fda4d1a89221576312408ba\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: We need to overcome the effects of the recession and of the mismanagement of the previous Government, which means that we need to rebalance the economy so that it will save more, produce more worthwhile output, and rely less on consumption and debt. We also need to reduce New Zealand\u2019s vulnerability to overseas lenders. As the United Kingdom Budget showed, if these problems are allowed to persist, then major and painful changes will be needed later. There are encouraging signs that the recovery is headed in the right direction, and we welcome those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226754c29da9840889cc179d63c542626\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Has the sharp growth in overseas demand for raw logs, seen in today\u2019s statistics, been matched by the closure of timber mills, loss of jobs, and decline of the domestic industry to such an extent that the Timber Industry Federation called it a \u201Crape and run industry\u201D; if so, when will he take action to ensure that our economy is one that produces added value and secures jobs for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea6c1392a8d2467bb7ff1f743e7aa3d6\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The forest products industry is cyclical; sometimes log prices are up, which makes it harder for domestic sawmills. Actually, for quite a number of years log prices have been down, which has made it easier for domestic sawmills. The good news is that the growth across the economy is coming from the right places. Government consumption is no longer growing rapidly. Export volume growth is the strongest that it has been in 3 years, while, overall, tradable sector output has shown its first signs of sustained growth since 2004.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d60ea6a6e7f141458e49f59463fefb00\u0022\u003EKatrina Shanks\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government tackling our economic challenges?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f25666093094d408e6fa64aebb3d0a1\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Not that well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c134fb5f7e84361a1194db8e6a07a2d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is right\u2014very well. The Government needs to use every tool at its disposal. In the Budget we made changes to the taxation system to try to assist the rebalancing of the economy. I know that the Government is continuing to focus on the careful use of public money to ensure that we do not take any more than we need to from the incoming-earning side of the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022482cd22a6f5d421596a30b11ebe8e0e7\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Was he surprised by the drop in the communications sector, or was it expected, given the continual delays in the Government\u2019s broadband plan, which has failed to lay an inch of broadband fibre in 18 months, creating a crisis of confidence in the industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ec88a42826a4d9ebb363efa8e7ec859\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I do not make guesses about quarterly growth rates, let alone individual components of them, because they do fluctuate. The broadband plan, as the member will know, is quite complex, and I am pleased to say it is on track, on target, and going very well. We certainly hope that we will lay ultra-fast fibre considerably quicker than, for instance, the Australians.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278942bac66ec4368b8739308c216f277\u0022\u003EKatrina Shanks\u003C/span\u003E: How does growth in the past year compare with previous growth in the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208ec095110c24bcb9fe059af2bc677e1\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There is little doubt that the economy entered a long-term slow-down over the past 5 years, well before the world was in recession\u2014that is, New Zealand went into recession before the world did. For example, per capita GDP declined between 2005 and 2008, even when the rest of the world was doing well. This is primarily because of the economic mismanagement of the previous Government. Even today, average per capita income remains at only 2004 levels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af8226130ae44bf0aacb5b32a11c1f9b\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: When he refers to \u201Cthe economic mismanagement of the previous Government\u201D, does he include the zero net debt achieved under Labour, and does he include the world record - low unemployment rate achieved under Labour; and would he care to speculate on whether today\u2019s results would have been achieved had we taken his advice when he was in Opposition and given unaffordable tax cuts to the wealthy in 2005 and 2006, thereby making debt worse?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0e01ead312a43d7a55ab29dae496030\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: If the previous Government had taken any amount of sensible advice, it would have done a lot better than it did. For instance, it would not have blown out Government spending from 2004 onwards, it would not have helped to foster a property boom, it would not have put taxes up, and now we would have a faster-growing economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022524d704f3da743e586a97ac4f14dfdb6\u0022\u003EPrivacy\u2014Minister\u2019s Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00223784c3924ddd4b3ba759a9acdfacc593\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223784c3924ddd4b3ba759a9acdfacc593\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she stand by her statement that \u201Cpeople do have a right to privacy but they have in my opinion broken privacy deciding to go out there, put their names and faces to it as well in photos in the paper,\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022991cd4d60b2e41aba0d4de61779019de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022991cd4d60b2e41aba0d4de61779019de\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I stand by all my actions and statements on this matter to date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022689de48d8e7348308ea75de2c350e2ee\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the Privacy Commissioner\u2019s findings that there is sufficient substance in the complaint against her for releasing information about a sole parent for the matter to be referred to the Director of Human Rights Proceedings; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d025ea77f36b4f46adc8189d6353d4aa\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Whether I agree is irrelevant. That is what the Privacy Commissioner has decided to do, that is the process we are now in, and it is one that I will respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e601824b40440c8b60972340f25da60\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: What has been the cost to the taxpayer to date for a 1-year long investigation by the Privacy Commissioner into her alleged breach of privacy, and what further cost will be incurred in legal fees, Crown Law advice, officials\u2019 time, and possibly a payout, if this matter continues unresolved; and will it be more than the $15,000 reportedly sought in compensation several months ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e124fd10d54b4ca18ea5339a4099cd6e\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I am not aware of, or responsible for, any costs incurred by the Privacy Commissioner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e4ac450892c4da3bacb390a3b7d8ba5\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I was not asking what the Privacy Commissioner\u2019s costs were; I was asking what costs she has incurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf4790532bf04a41994c1cbe8cb44ee8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not believe that the member\u2019s question was quite as precise as that. I believe that the Minister gave a perfectly fair answer to the question asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a29f076e684047a5a91cdc026708a42f\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Why does she not immediately apologise for her breach of the Privacy Act over a year ago, and undertake not to commit such a breach in future, if only to minimise the mounting cost to taxpayers, who will have to continue to pick up her bill for this matter, which is now going before the Director of Human Rights Proceedings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267b3aab6d64a4a4d9007af9d0569bae9\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I stand by all my actions to date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222115583c7d5145ed8f971e004c435f3b\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Does she regret whipping up, to quote her, a \u201Chorrific debate that\u2019s been very personalised and ugly\u201D against beneficiaries who dared to speak out against her cuts to the training incentive allowance, which would have helped to get them back into work; and why not stop the ugliness now by apologising, moving on, and helping those women step up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250a275a1b4fc42498f06e634a3f1a957\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It seems to me that the Opposition does not want to have a debate about welfare. I would turn round and say that actually welfare is not a four-letter word; it is something that we do need to address in this country, it is a debate that we will have, and I will be proud to lead it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df58d9b2e3f14112a47c3af2e263ef63\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I did not ask about what she thinks should happen in welfare reform. I quoted what she had said about a \u201Chorrific debate that\u2019s been very personalised and ugly\u201D, and I asked her what she would do to get back to work the people whose training incentive allowance was cut by her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faf77532f1264d79ad364ed9fbc16989\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The\u2014[Interruption] There will not be debate while I am considering this matter. I think, in fairness, the question asked, if I recollect correctly, whether the Minister regrets something that led to something else. The Minister did not really say anything that related to the question. She instead said what the Government\u2019s priorities were around welfare. I think it would be helpful if the Minister were to try to answer the question. I realise there is no precise answer, but if the Minister could attempt to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b748177f553b49a0976adc53f6e52b70\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly, Mr Speaker. The member asked about the training incentive allowance, and she made allegations that it had been cut. It was not cut. What happened was we addressed that funding to the more than 50 percent of people who are on the domestic purposes benefit who have such poor literacy and numeracy skills that they do not even have National Certificate of Educational Achievement level 2. That is where we are addressing that money\u2014to where it is absolutely needed the most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224504abb032124496b36853cabb07db50\u0022\u003EEmissions Trading Scheme\u2014Effectiveness in Reducing Climate Change\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u00224c79c131b748439c97fcb54cff30ba80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c79c131b748439c97fcb54cff30ba80\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National\u2014West Coast - Tasman)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Climate Change Issues: What reports has he received on support for emissions trading schemes as an effective measure to reduce climate change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022f576279e47de4e44a1057cdc30057b0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f576279e47de4e44a1057cdc30057b0d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for Climate Change Issues):\u003C/span\u003E Emissions trading schemes are widely accepted as the most efficient way of reducing emissions, with schemes now operating in 29 of the 38 developed Kyoto Protocol countries. As well, many states in the US, and Canada and parts of Asia have adopted such schemes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adf110f2436143e0876dd64d0e766ed7\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received any reports of parties reversing their position on an emissions trading scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fe93a96e6ec431baba0d6a972f58b21\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have. Radio New Zealand reported yesterday that Labour is reconsidering its climate change policy and whether it would have a carbon tax, instead of an emissions trading scheme. I note that such policy U-turns have not been particularly helpful across the Tasman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfe18e159e7c49219d82b0ebb4f45d82\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: What would be the impact of switching from an emissions trading scheme to a carbon tax?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7b9fc139be14469950610768010e5a3\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Such a switch would be hugely destabilising. New Zealand has struggled for over a decade to develop a credible and consistent policy on climate change that puts a price on carbon emissions, and it has switched twice already between the options of a carbon tax and an emissions trading scheme. My greatest worry is in relation to the forestry sector, which Labour introduced into the emissions trading scheme in 2008, under a scheme that requires stability over the harvest cycle of trees. It is hugely damaging to now contemplate scrapping that scheme, which would potentially risk deforestation and a lack of confidence in that sector. I also note that it would be bad news for consumers, in that the carbon tax policies of the previous Labour Government would cost a lot more in terms of increased power and fuel costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a171e47dd6e143e3a4472e44f1c6d5c7\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware of the analysis contained in The Carbon Challenge by Dr Geoff Bertram and Mr Simon Terry of the Sustainability Council, published yesterday, and in particular its conclusions that his emissions trading scheme is \u201Ctechnically obsolete\u201D and \u201Cbeyond rescue\u201D as a sustainable framework for tackling climate change, and that it \u201Ccompletely fails as a mechanism to make today\u2019s polluters meet today\u2019s emissions bill\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d798f4548fd34bdfa907d889e26f2d5d\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Can we take it that the flashing light on Mr Chauvel\u2019s lapel is in fact a distress signal, and do we need to get someone in here to help him?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f58cb5a46a74439a1b42d9388d972b4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members of the House will know that it is to do with support for the St John Ambulance. One of the member\u2019s own colleagues was wearing one yesterday. I invite Charles Chauvel to ask his question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f346a9ec3f8143ce8135f84bdea51b9a\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am delighted to support St John Ambulance. Is the Minister aware of the analysis contained in The Carbon Challenge by Dr Geoff Bertram and Mr Simon Terry of the Sustainability Council, published yesterday, and in particular its conclusions that his emissions trading scheme is \u201Ctechnically obsolete\u201D and \u201Cbeyond rescue\u201D as a substantive framework for tackling climate change, and that it \u201Ccompletely fails as a mechanism to make today\u2019s polluters meet today\u2019s emissions bill\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e645db78d8314ffaa4e8cae9d6648760\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not. We have carefully balanced the need for New Zealand to make progress on curbing emissions growth with the need to ensure that the economy grows, as the Minister of Finance outlined with the latest GDP figures. It is a balanced policy approach, and I fear for both climate change policy and the economy with the switch that Labour has made in now favouring a carbon tax. It is an extraordinary flip-flop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d469635252d84b7e81e5b6a2ec44ba74\u0022\u003EJohn Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the conclusions in Geoff Bertram and Simon Terry\u2019s book The Carbon Challenge that the New Zealand electricity industry will make some $566 million of windfall profits from New Zealand\u2019s emissions trading scheme over the next 2\u00BD years; if so, does he think that supporters of New Zealand\u2019s emission trading scheme remotely understand the massive wealth transfer and the massive windfall profits to the New Zealand electricity industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022672b4a58af9b4c3e959d9d8bb4695e09\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not. Effectively, Mr Terry and Dr Bertram want the Government to take a far more aggressive policy and a far tougher approach to climate change. Our Government\u2019s policy is one that provides a careful balance\u2014that is, that we make progress in curbing emissions, that we do our fair share on climate change, but also that we need to be cautious of imposing excessive costs on New Zealand businesses, which would simply relocate offshore to do their emissions. That would cost New Zealanders jobs and do nothing for climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e69716764b9d4884beedd20216722a66\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the authors of The Carbon Challenge conclude that most of the future $5.7 billion bill arising from New Zealand exceeding its Kyoto Protocol target will fall on future taxpayers, making it \u201Ca massive intergenerational transfer of liability\u201D, and that because forestry credits must be paid back when trees are harvested in 2020 or afterwards, using these credits to pay the Kyoto bill is like \u201Cputting it \u2018on the plastic\u2019 for the next generation to pay.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d6c09301ca34b1dba0acf787ccdfe8a\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I note that the Government\u2019s policy around forestry and the emissions trading scheme is unchanged from the legislation that was put through Parliament by David Parker. What I find extraordinary is that that was Labour\u2019s policy only 18 months ago. Charles Chauvel has now thrown that to the wall and said Labour\u2019s view now is that there should be a carbon tax. Where does Labour stand on this critical issue? Nobody knows that now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226562a235ba314c57b839e016c69931e1\u0022\u003EMinisters\u2014Rules for Declaration of Pecuniary Interests\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022a86b5b8c4d8d4a71803d3371dada24dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a86b5b8c4d8d4a71803d3371dada24dc\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: When he said \u201Cthere\u2019s always clarification of the rules and they\u2019re not always straightforward\u201D in relation to the Hon Christopher Finlayson on four occasions failing to declare a directorship he held, what did he find \u201Cnot always straightforward\u201D about the requirement to declare \u201Cthe name of each company of which the member is a director\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00221d4f956016ae41ffbea7cc71af0b24ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d4f956016ae41ffbea7cc71af0b24ff\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: The member was quoting selectively at that point. In the stand-up with journalists the Prime Minister was talking about the pecuniary interests register in general, not Mr Finlayson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220908199bde70401fb22935a4f78d4036\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Has he discussed this issue with the Attorney-General?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed225a0c6d264510871d759554da5042\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot answer as to whether the Prime Minister has discussed it with the Attorney-General.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229312b815fb72418ca0048fcabd361204\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister seen the legal advice on this matter referred to by Chris Finlayson?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207746e948764419f97b4c6f1e9231351\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I cannot answer that question, but I think I can say to the member that we need to keep these things in perspective. The Register of Pecuniary Interests of Members of Parliament is available to members to assist them to modify their register if and when information comes to hand or legal advice changes. As members know, the requirements around the register have evolved over recent years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022311f63bc337f42ef84fe84e42e69e1f2\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Did he seek Cabinet Office advice in relation to the opinion from the lawyer for Mr Finlayson\u2019s friend\u2019s trust on the meaning of whether the requirement that \u201Cthe name of each company of which the member is a director\u201D means that \u201Cthe name of each company of which the member is a director\u201D must be so declared; if so, what was that advice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022719aa24440d24b3880eddbbfc194e531\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I cannot give the member that answer. What I can say is that I am sure the member shares my view that clarification of the rules is often required. For instance, when in the previous Parliament a member did not declare on the register a $100,000 gift, the member opposite was part of a party that voted against a censure motion, when clearly the register\u2019s requirements had not been met. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdaedf3a75f84ae3b927e62819bf36b8\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: When he said on 17 November 2008 \u201CI expect high standards of my Ministers\u201D, did that include the expectation that his Attorney-General would file false returns, and that the Prime Minister\u2019s response would be \u201CI don\u2019t know, because I don\u2019t ask.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1127b7f9c92437da10e6bed3a0eb11b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No; as the member knows, the Prime Minister has high standards. He might be a bit confused by that member\u2019s standards. The member seems to regard this as a significant breach of the register that requires censure, but when he was given the opportunity to vote for a censure motion for a former member who did not declare a $100,000 gift, he decided to vote against that censure motion, so I am not sure what the member\u2019s standards are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f358f3c2f99c4ae1a8001e0c7d2dabbe\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the Prime Minister\u2019s view that the Attorney-General\u2019s filing of four false declarations is more or less serious than the member for Clutha-Southland declaring to three Speakers that his primary place of residence is Dipton?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9894e84081f4dc4ad26f3e56e958c2e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It is the Prime Minister\u2019s view that he expects a high standard and he expects members to comply with the requirements of Parliament, and that is what his members do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fcb442fee010463b8e6a2ccbfd9707a3\u0022\u003ECommunity Max\u2014Expansion\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc7aefcaca1c4df4869c48e2f4f78d0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc7aefcaca1c4df4869c48e2f4f78d0f\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What announcements has the Government made on Community Max?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022f56d3d08af1847feb6df7e4f0b7dba04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f56d3d08af1847feb6df7e4f0b7dba04\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Minister Turia and I have added an extra 1,500 Community Max places, taking the total number to over 5,000. This is an additional $17.4 million in Government investment. These additional places will be available in the Bay of Plenty, East Coast, Northland, and Waikato areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022526ec572738445ac818a03b13e23cf56\u0022\u003EHekia Parata\u003C/span\u003E: Why have these areas been selected to extend the Community Max programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1ac2e49d35440a7b2d55b15d2a327b9\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: These regions have been selected as they have high youth unemployment rates under the household labour force survey, some of the highest numbers of young people receiving the unemployment benefit, and high levels of M\u0101ori unemployment. They are more rural areas, as well, which find it hard to access Job Ops as there are fewer employers in those areas. We think Community Max will make a big difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c96cb4a836fd46cfb60c0a02643358cd\u0022\u003EHekia Parata\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister give examples where Community Max is making a real difference?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223809941139d84e3cbb91a35250e0ef52\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen many outstanding Community Max programmes, but recently I visited Motut\u012B Marae in the far north, in the Hokianga, where I met a group of young people who were doing everything from bee-keeping to fashion design, carving, real leadership programmes, and business skills with tourism ventures. They were absolutely awesome. They were making a real difference, and they were looking at sustainable employment for them in a very rural area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de56874a946548779cffcf70c6056d72\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: What are the likely impacts of the announcement today about the extension of Community Max on addressing the high level of M\u0101ori unemployment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219e9947148a84c90a32f6cb07ed6438c\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: More than 50 percent of the uptake of Community Max has been by M\u0101ori in really rural areas. I have just described one programme, but many groups\u2014marae-based as well\u2014have picked up these programmes. They are giving real skills to their young people. They are helping them to get drivers\u2019 licences and to learn skills that they will take into the workforce with them. That is leading to more sustainability in those rural areas, as well. I think Community Max will make a big difference, we are already seeing it make a difference, and it is a delight to be able to put extra numbers into those areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a77764ad8a20414ab45e872738f2a275\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Minister doing to find out what has happened to the 39 percent of youth who have completed the Community Max programme but who are not in work, not in training, and are not receiving any form of Government support?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218fd5cb9342c4f3a838c6c0d761be14b\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: People have gone to a range of places. It is true that some of those young people have gone overseas. Some of them have stayed on their marae. They are working, they have not gone on a benefit, and they are doing more volunteer work. A number of them are doing different things. What I do know is that 80 percent of those who have completed their Community Max programme have not gone back on a benefit. That is an outstanding result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccd0963e090744f582a41ccb014ef1f2\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: Have any evaluations been received about the impact of Community Max, and what have been the key findings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257478fc5615b4a06a0666044bf4542c9\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: At the end of May 1,466 people had completed the programme\u2014149 of them in March, nearly 500 in April, and just over 800 in May. Of those people, 72 percent completed the full 6 months. Of those who had completed the full 6 months, 81 percent are not currently receiving a benefit, which means that they have not gone back on to a benefit and have had real results. So at this time the programme is certainly showing something positive. We want to see how it sort of trickles out over time, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225ca76212ed24b1b970275978adfa771\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell the House to the nearest thousand how many young people are not receiving Government support but also are not in education, training, or employment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a5229de0fd64faf8476d3ec7bcdedf9\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: That number moves around daily, as one can imagine, because young people are in and out and doing a whole lot of different activities. We have been doing an analysis across departments, because, as the member might well understand, it affects education, it affects my portfolio, and it certainly affects tertiary education, as well. Some of our preliminary results show that around 7,000 of the younger ones\u201416 and 17-year-olds\u2014are not touching any sort of programme or training. That is a key focus for this Government, particularly around Youth Guarantee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223fa8b763dd604fe9b5802e7ad27ea842\u0022\u003EForeshore and Seabed Act Review\u2014Northland Coastline in Customary Title\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d34450f2f245480fb65e15be609ba3f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d34450f2f245480fb65e15be609ba3f1\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Leader\u2014Progressive)\u003C/span\u003E to the Attorney-General: Is it Government policy to grant customary title in the entire Northland coast from Mangonui up the cape, and down to the Hokianga Heads?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022162bc7ea3b6145a8aa5f4ec28589a9ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022162bc7ea3b6145a8aa5f4ec28589a9ed\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E No. It is the Government\u2019s policy to determine each application for customary title on its merits, assessing the facts of each case, and applying the tests that will be set out in the statute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b90c1bb2d97e44f7bf0cb710bd50342b\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen Professor Margaret Mutu\u2019s statement in the New Zealand Herald today, with regard to the coastline pictured in the New Zealand Herald, that \u201Cwe own it\u201D; if so, what has he done to show the rest of New Zealand that we all own it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb81653e1fa4eaebcb97cca68540559\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have not read the article.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022500efb37de2440b5a9d2ab644a760730\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Northland claimants be making their claim for title to the courts or to the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022618a22f97dee407a89584a13d9459fca\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is a bit early for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd160312e9bd45e987e92702de575dda\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: Would the granting of customary title over all or part of Ninety Mile Beach enable the M\u0101ori owners to prevent four-wheel driving and tour buses on what would then be M\u0101ori-owned foreshore and seabed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a981300b3ab54f709f49c492a13fb124\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I would not have thought so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022206727044b3f43a694a8738412abc449\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister cannot tell the House at this point in time who will be making the decision on any claim to ownership, how can he rule out in any way at all that the claimant might get title to the whole coastline?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022373274c8b36046c8b87b5990b1550eb7\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no one will be making any claim as at this time, because the law has not been passed yet. When the law is passed, there will be an opportunity for interested parties\u2014be they iwi or, in some cases, hap\u016B\u2014to enter into negotiations with the Crown or to exercise the court option that was taken away from them by the Government of which that member was a senior Cabinet Minister in 2004.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022418c0ab5479b420689632cb482414ffb\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: As the Minister is blaming the previous Government for this, how will he resolve the new Treaty agreements that will be created when people form an expectation that they own the coastline, as stated in the New Zealand Herald today, because he refuses to rule out their title to it, while he is reassuring other New Zealanders that \u201Ctitle\u201D in this case does not mean \u201Ctitle\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f71cb72adbe746a38fdba8ffbc5f7ec2\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: In my previous answer I did not blame the previous Government. I set out the facts of the situation. The facts are that when the law has been passed, we can then deal with negotiations and court applications if there are any, and they can be determined on their facts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223058edc287f347c197bbd80e77ed466b\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the definition of title in the Oxford English Dictionary, which states that it is a right or claim to the ownership of property.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d879d3f127b849e8a6694a3fb1076d1b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? [Interruption] Did I hear objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a1429994f5b646e6a3bd8b516cd5a0bf\u0022\u003EState Highways\u2014Safety Ratings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc96f58a6b4b407081e73d0ae9c4cc22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc96f58a6b4b407081e73d0ae9c4cc22\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What reports has he received on the safety ratings of New Zealand\u2019s State highways?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u00225cef3929fc494354ac8f3460bb296fdb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225cef3929fc494354ac8f3460bb296fdb\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased that this morning I had the opportunity to release, in conjunction with the Automobile Association, the KiwiRAP star rating report. For the first time New Zealanders have access to a comprehensive star-based rating system that shows the relative levels of safety built into our State highways. The report provides a regional breakdown of the prevalence of key safety features found on our State highways, and shows that roughly 68 percent of vehicle kilometres travelled are on 3 or 4-star roads, with about 33 percent on 2-star highways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205a8c38d4cda43f19ab9e3aa4bf23fdb\u0022\u003ENikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to improve the safety of State highways?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022497d7d1e17c3484d87b611854a4c92fc\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is taking a number of steps to improve the safety of State highways, including the major step of progressing the work on the roads of national significance. Upgrading this roading infrastructure will include retrofitting safety improvements and installing separate carriageways through our busiest high-volume rural highways. These seven roads carry high levels of traffic, including freight, and it is important that they are safe to use. Upgrading them will not only raise their star rating but help save lives and reduce injuries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e1d401004ea4dc9b2cc9e318133a89e\u0022\u003ENikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: How can drivers use this information to protect themselves on the road?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022931705a1881e4c7c9a0aac7b22e27d86\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Improving the safety of New Zealand\u2019s roads and encouraging safer driving are key parts of the Government\u2019s Safer Journeys strategy. Drivers should use the ratings to educate themselves about the relative safety of the roads they drive on, and adjust their driving behaviour accordingly. We all need to take responsibility by being aware of conditions and adjusting our driving and our speeds. KiwiRAP can help drivers make the right choices to stay safe on our roads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f9e678b103e84d89bce08db9f11a5b69\u0022\u003EHousing\u2014Access to Appropriate and Affordable Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u0022caa04dabb378429fb1fe93539b4cdd19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022caa04dabb378429fb1fe93539b4cdd19\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: Does he believe that all New Zealanders should have access to appropriate and affordable housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbea9f191b064de18e719b081cc1d8ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbea9f191b064de18e719b081cc1d8ff\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E As I have stated repeatedly in the House, this Government is committed to assisting New Zealanders who are most in need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022037cc2fc4eb84b57bee58f989bdb07f3\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Is it now Government policy that if someone legally challenges a Housing New Zealand Corporation tenancy termination for antisocial behaviour, all maintenance work on State houses in that community will stop until the legal action is resolved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5b625bdc45c4215af3bccdd07195d38\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ac94cd616ab4e6bb92dbd4eace32100\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: If the answer to my first question is no, why is there one rule for the P\u014Dmare community and another for every other community?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bc5c5c5b97148dc92dd3202cc004776\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have made no secret of the fact that when we came into Government we were faced with an Auditor-General\u2019s report that said that $2 billion worth of maintenance and upgrades needed to be done to State houses, and that they were in a state of serious disrepair. Unfortunately, P\u014Dmare not only has the problem of houses in a state of serious disrepair; it had an antisocial behaviour problem because the previous Government had tolerated antisocial behaviour in those houses\u2014serious antisocial behaviour by gangs. We will not tolerate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295f0b101137c4a589c18d21059b134c4\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I deliberately made my question very specific. I asked why he was applying one rule to P\u014Dmare and one rule to every single other community, and he did not address that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233c8f3ccd95a43858410d12317300d6c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I listened very carefully because the member\u2019s question was commendably to the point, but I confess that I believe that the Minister answered in terms of the difference: the difference was, he argues\u2014I believe\u2014that in P\u014Dmare an extensive degree of refurbishment is required. I took it that that was the difference he was telling the House about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2971cada4554a0fb2601d45fa94d7fa\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Has everyone on the waiting list turned down an offer from the Housing New Zealand Corporation to live in one of the P\u014Dmare properties; if not, where did he get his information when he said on TV on Tuesday night that P\u014Dmare\u2019s bad reputation means that no one wants to live in these properties?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022809ed04957ab459a9f0e99dce3ce73c4\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: As the member opposite has pointed out, there are 10,000 people on the waiting list, and we have not offered them all a place in P\u014Dmare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9cd96064e0c4b409ad7ab23f2d549e8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I gave the Minister the benefit of the doubt on the previous answer to a very straightforward question, and I believe that this question was straightforward, too. A little more helpful answer would, I think, have been helpful. I invite Moana Mackey to ask her question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229756dbd4d17247ae929b71c240151ef0\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: I will help the Minister by asking it again. Has everyone on the waiting list in the Wellington region turned down an offer from the Housing New Zealand Corporation to live in one of the P\u014Dmare properties; if not, where did he get his information when he said on TV on Tuesday night that P\u014Dmare\u2019s bad reputation means that no one wants to live in these properties?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef209b6353db4cc48425395ce809ecb0\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is my understanding that houses in P\u014Dmare have been offered 84 times to various tenants, and have been turned down 84 times. That tells us that it has a name for serious antisocial behaviour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022417889d8a6c84eebbe3ea96eb6c40c6b\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister seen\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274a9f2e0975642c29ba81dac68db34f7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the honourable member. I say to, on this occasion, the Labour front bench that the level of interjection means I cannot hear. The member may not be particularly happy with an answer, but he should not just yell endlessly. There will be a further chance to question the Minister, if he is not happy with the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a94e0495a7244113b04250252cc6b94f\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister seen in the media today about community redevelopment projects?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aef33d71f832465d9557504038c54f8f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have here the front page of the North Shore Times, which features an article \u201CHappy in New Zealand homes\u201D. It says that my announcement last week drew cheers from tenants who attended the official opening of 44 new units in Northcote. The quote is Mr Heatley did it \u201Camidst cheers from residents\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d19a202d6eb04761b2a8d93431e3edd6\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister prepared to have the Housing New Zealand Corporation offer houses in P\u014Dmare that are currently vacant to all persons currently on the Lower Hutt or Upper Hutt waiting lists?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248f22c74a38648fea8d93abe2a21bb56\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Eleven of the houses in the area that the member mentions are available for letting. Not everyone in the area who is on the waiting list wants the houses, because they do not have the right number of bedrooms. But they are available for letting. My understanding is that houses have been offered for letting 84 times, and have been declined 84 times. That is because no one wants to live in the neighbourhood, generally speaking, because for the last 9 years no one did anything about the serious antisocial behaviour there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa78cfa47c8b4e018dccb8fda01bda75\u0022\u003EUranium\u2014Shipment Through New Zealand Ports and Exclusive Economic Zone\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022080783af02364669842ed18082d98d32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022080783af02364669842ed18082d98d32\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: When did the Government become aware that radioactive uranium ore was being shipped through New Zealand ports and the exclusive economic zone for later use in nuclear reactors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5e5e0638e84441483ec560e376794a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5e5e0638e84441483ec560e376794a1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I am advised that Government officials have been aware since the 1970s of the trans-shipment of yellowcake uranium ore through New Zealand ports. I was advised in March this year that the Environmental Risk Management Authority had issued a permit for trans-shipping yellowcake through the Ports of Auckland. I note that the yellowcake poses little health or environmental risk, and that the Australian Government ensures that its ore is used only for peaceful purposes\u2014that is, non-military use.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242a583cde92a44f0a8be8c577d4db8e9\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that this is a radioactive nuclear material?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a720659c7d764826a46faf343ad46f75\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I can. I note though that uranium is naturally occurring. It is a very weak radioactive element, which is widely distributed throughout the Earth\u2019s crust in rocks, soils, stream sediments, rivers, and oceans. I am also advised by the National Radiation Laboratory that uranium is common in foods and also exists in our human bodies. Uranium contributes to natural background radiation\u2014and perhaps that might explain why Mr Charles Chauvel keeps flashing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b0541fe65e64adc8adfee090e2aa9eb\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Does not the shipping of radioactive uranium undermine New Zealand\u2019s proud, nuclear-free history, and the blood, sweat, and tears of hundreds of thousands of Kiwis who in the 1980s fought to entrench our nuclear-free status, which is just so important to our valuable \u201Cclean, green\u201D brand? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dda68bcfb98d41a995622de9b8887380\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No; in fact, if we took that sort of silly position on radioactive substances we would destine hundreds of New Zealanders to a painful death, because many of those radioactive imports are used to treat cancer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292e541263ed34d07a2497bce972c46bc\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: When will the Government act to ensure that New Zealand is not part of the nuclear chain, in supporting nuclear generation and possibly nuclear weapons?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022885919d3fe904c10a3ee9c448d37e0be\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I have already made plain that the Australian Government has strict criteria that it will allow the export of uranium ore only for peaceful purposes. Furthermore, my colleague Georgina te Heuheu has just this week been part of a conference that is to establish very clear reporting requirements to ensure that such radioactive substances are used only for peaceful purposes. The key point I make to the Green Party is to differentiate between the very fair position, and a position strongly held by this Government, of opposition to nuclear weapons, and a view about the overall use of nuclear technology in which it is important not just for health services but for energy generation in a number of other countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297c8e48840e44a51a545830a0e7e666e\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: What level of radiation exposure do yellowcake containers transiting New Zealand pose?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd718e90e43c4587b37569e876c99d9d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised by the National Radiation Laboratory that the radiation exposure is very low. If a person stood right next to a drum for 130 hours he or she would have the same level of exposure as someone would naturally have over the course of a year. The Environmental Risk Management Authority actually advises me that the high level of risk is from the toxicity, not the radiation, and then it is a risk only if someone ingests\u2014that is, eats\u2014large quantities. Given that the substance is only to be in the hulls of ships, I do not think the risk of that is high. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4c09b75e7184c1ba3fda64a7f71ad0e\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Government notified that in May of this year the Pacific Pintail and the Pacific Heron, carrying radioactive, mixed oxide plutonium en route to Japan via the Tasman Sea, possibly passed through New Zealand\u2019s exclusive economic zone?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224450280b2594846996838c5938bbc81\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I have received advice only in respect of uranium and the use of yellowcake. I am advised that that poses no significant risk to New Zealanders\u2019 health or our environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c65f5f066dec467ba2fe351ad67f3973\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Is it acceptable that successive Governments did not even know that radioactive uranium and plutonium had been passing through our waters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250b05a9bfcfc457e9a87df63e3169090\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Governments have been aware, but unlike the sort of attitude where the mere mention of the word \u201Curanium\u201D makes the party breathless, most parties take a rational view of risk, and expect officials to advise us of issues where there are significant risks to the public health or the environment. All of the science advice is that there are very low levels of risk. I note that any New Zealanders holidaying in Australia, in any one of the national parks where there are extensive uranium deposits, would be exposed to a greater degree of radiation through their holiday than they would be by these shipments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1cb7084de8d4c36960c94b6b8319b4a\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister now take a stand and make clear that as a nuclear-free country it is not OK to have nuclear shipments going towards the nuclear energy and possibly nuclear weapons industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8f4ba0b5aea4f06ad193f6d42a35ca1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No. It is as if the member has a paranoia about anything that relates to radioactivity or uranium. I remind the member that uranium is prevalent right through our environment, including in our own bodies. Although it is right to have a strong position against nuclear weapons, the peaceful use of nuclear technology is part of a modern society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022531c43024fd841f094b29576f6537851\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table two documents, the first being an editorial from the Taipei Times, which shows that uranium from Australia is used in Chinese power stations in lieu of the uranium that goes into Chinese warheads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a17f49b867b34bb2b035c74fea155fec\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2107c3539ce45a08c4ed17fc4c93990\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the energy science report Nuclear Safeguards, which illustrates that our actions enable countries to have the capacity to develop both nuclear energy and nuclear warheads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226583b27057424892a95e27fa5bac5486\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022866d739f98774321b20b1ddde7cfbc56\u0022\u003EEarly Childhood Education\u2014Minister\u2019s Responsibility for Centres\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u002217fe7e10f18a46bc8e73c5c3d7132e54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217fe7e10f18a46bc8e73c5c3d7132e54\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does she stand by her recent statement to the House that she has no responsibility for decisions that early childhood education services make as a result of her removal of the subsidy for 80 to 100 percent qualified staff?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00225ad3b671002948c98acf6595a8aa5c3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ad3b671002948c98acf6595a8aa5c3d\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. The decisions that services make in response to this reprioritisation are their own responsibility, and they have a number of options available to them. I take responsibility for the decision to reprioritise the funding from the two highest teacher-led early childhood subsidy bands towards raising participation, because those groups were failed by the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c937008a8ea49e78cfab87ec5963325\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Who is responsible, then, for the $2.7 million funding cut for ABC Learning Centres throughout New Zealand, affecting 8,000 children and their families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f1a6260069445fbb76dc02fa0e73097\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: As I just said in the previous answer, I take responsibility for the decision to reprioritise the funding away from those two top teacher-led bands and into increasing participation for children who are not currently attending early childhood education. The Opposition fails to grasp that the spending on early childhood education has more than trebled in the last 10 years, yet participation has not grown commensurately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a24c71d9d6e447db913fabe34415a8f\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a William Sio\u003C/span\u003E: Is she responsible for the $95,000 per annum funding cut for the M\u0101ngere Living and Learning Family Centre, which affects 113 children, 98 percent of whom are M\u0101ori and Pasifika?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dd31c0d34a34f72964d70b520af50bd\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have said that I am responsible for changing the funding for the top two bands in teacher-led services, but those services have a range of choices that they can make. Those choices include meeting this Government\u2019s 80 percent requirement for qualified teachers, changing the services they deliver, or changing the hours of their services. They have a range of decisions, and that is their responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5c633e80759434e9d525069382f3ad9\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: What has the reprioritisation of the funding for the 80 to 100 percent qualified staff in early childhood education services allowed the Government to do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e028ae493984059ae5ba5e9bbade890\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: We have to do more to increase participation in early childhood education. Despite the spending growing by 300 percent, the previous Government increased the numbers of children attending education before they go to school by less than 1 percentage point\u2014300 percent more for less than 1 percentage point. Reprioritising those two top funding bands has allowed us to invest an extra $91.8 million over 4 years for a package to boost participation among groups that are currently missing out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229357318200c44f8c80818a9824672fc7\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Is she saying that the Gisborne YMCA should be grateful that as a best-case scenario it will lose $186,000 per annum in funding, and that the Papamoa East community should be grateful that a kindergarten for 50 families that was planning to go ahead is no longer happening, because of her funding cuts? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022586e1c971bad4d80b1e68f758599aabd\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am saying to those services that they have 8 months before the changes are made, and they have a range of options to meet those funding changes. They can make those decisions; I suggest they talk to the parents who use their services. I would be really disappointed if the first thing they did was increase their charges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fead73e11c934da391ba7adad251014d\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept responsibility for the fact that a kindergarten planned for Papamoa East will now not go ahead, because of her funding cuts? Will she apologise to the 50 families who want to enrol their children at that kindergarten? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a79ed0788cc648349ebf9a915c6b4cc5\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not take responsibility for decisions that that kindergarten association has made. I have taken responsibility for reprioritising the funding; the kindergarten must take responsibility, with its parents, for the decisions that it makes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022671f6eb5d50a45b893fb0fd00c3ad48f\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an article titled \u201CGovernment Funding Cuts Hit Kindergartens Hard\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293f8f977806a4cebb2da6fdb81d2d124\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, I did not hear the source of the document. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223135e4aff7384408b1ae544b36257f0c\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: It is from the Tauranga Region Kindergarten and Home Based ECE News. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c8e2c116963421a8f4efedbeafed6d3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cf1085dbc3054e6ab31423fa6a17dc9e\u0022\u003EGame Animal Council\u2014Progress on Establishment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u0022134bb0f14365420db137a379cd731b24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022134bb0f14365420db137a379cd731b24\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Conservation: What progress has been made regarding establishing the Game Animal Council?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u002284e33c553c2e4e938fe753f06b6061ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284e33c553c2e4e938fe753f06b6061ec\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E I have received the final recommendations on the process for setting up the New Zealand Game Animal Council from the Game Animal Council Establishment Committee. I am very pleased to see that the hunting sector is working together to improve hunting opportunities, and I acknowledge the assistance of the Hon Peter Dunne on this matter, which forms part of the Government\u2019s confidence and supply agreement with United Future. The Government will consider very carefully the recommendations and their effects on all interested people before making a formal response in the next few months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c0f8a7b6b804cb1b708b7e10a2494de\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: What are the recommendations in terms of the groups that should be represented on the council? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ed8c86fd1db4ca5b7ac026740b8dcd7\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: The report recommends that the council include an independent chair together with representatives of recreational hunters, commercial operators, iwi, farmers, and the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022351668b20d3f412195fa7f23510c4532\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the President of the New Zealand Deerstalkers Association that the Game Animal Council will \u201Cfoster improved communication and collaboration between government, commercial interests and recreational hunters.\u201D; if so, can she point to situations where that type of cooperation and collaboration is already happening, perhaps on a smaller, more local scale? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235c9a0bc018d4ba890dd2195d1394908\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I believe this process has already led to greater collaboration and communication amongst the hunting sector; there are some great community initiatives\u2014for example, the wapiti programme in Fiordland and Stewart Island. Indeed, the Department of Conservation has employed a hunting adviser to improve its services to hunters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223edffecd54a64850846264238544bd67\u0022\u003ETransport Systems\u2014Concerns\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u00223ffeabcbf26840998c45c88b7d1044dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ffeabcbf26840998c45c88b7d1044dd\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What recent reports has he received about concerns with transport systems?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022f80477d2e84a4e4697786e52edc13d9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f80477d2e84a4e4697786e52edc13d9e\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I receive many, many reports in the transport area, some of which highlight ways in which our transport systems can be improved. For example, in response to an earlier question I referred to the KiwiRAP report, which I launched this morning. Another example is the briefing that I received yesterday from the Civil Aviation Authority in regard to a television story showing security issues with airline electronic checking procedures. I am pleased to report to the House that the airlines are taking immediate steps to rectify those problems, and the Civil Aviation Authority is currently following that up to ensure it is satisfied with those corrective actions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022980fa8af9146422cbaecb722287645c8\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister have concerns about the Civil Aviation Authority statement that having someone check in bags without boarding the plane in the TV3 sting was the most worrying aspect of the incident, and why was the Minister not aware of this potential security breach? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022093a595d59b542d1a30b5321b64a48bd\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is safe to say that just about everybody who uses the transport system was unaware of this potential security breach. My role has been to ensure that the breach, once recognised, was acted on very quickly, and I have ensured that that is the case. The Civil Aviation Authority is responsible for improving the security arrangements with airlines, and it has been working with the airlines since this issue came to light in the last couple of days. My understanding is that a corrective action will be in place very soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c04d1d1135af444e9da7ec559c311435\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm to the House that the journalist who checked herself in using his name referred to herself as Joyce Stephen; if so, has he encountered this sort of confusion before?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf2d67d8b53c4a6985d40745094f1be9\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: If I refer back to primary school, I think, yes, it has occurred from time to time. Also, it is fair to say I have checked in at times and people have gone looking for Mrs Joyce, instead of Mr S Joyce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221a2e6f2e077a40e085a370d6d880d174\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022ece12fc0410146bda44f32a32baee4c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ece12fc0410146bda44f32a32baee4c3\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour): \u003C/span\u003EI seek leave to table one page from Budget 2009 and one page from Budget 2010 regarding Vote Social Development, and showing that the training incentive allowance has been cut from $29 million under the previous Labour Government to $17 million in the latest Budget and is estimated to be as low as $13 million by 2013\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ab564c5983f432f8a5a55fa55e90a04\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has made a statement, but she knows that all members have the Budget documents. There is absolutely no need to table them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d0e15eb3a57d4054ae5b20389556d4d7\u0022\u003EMotor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002227355a0eeb5246a189fc719efc453c5f\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000512\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022e813396cb68749648eb08fdf0b548ebc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e813396cb68749648eb08fdf0b548ebc\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E This Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill makes vehicle traders accountable, and provides consumers with redress through the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal. The Motor Vehicle Sales Act promotes and protects consumer interests. We want to create an environment of confidence and informed choice for consumers. This bill is in line with the National-led Government\u2019s efforts to reform regulations, cut red tape, and reduce compliance costs. Reforming regulations is one of National\u2019s six policy drivers to boost the long-term performance of the economy, create jobs, lift incomes, raise living standards, and provide the high-quality public services that Kiwi families need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe general purpose of this bill is to amend the Motor Vehicle Sales Act 2003 to improve its workability and transparency. By way of background, the Act introduced a new compulsory registration regime for motor vehicle traders, and new disclosure requirements for used motor vehicles. A review reported back in 2006 some areas that required amendment, and those changes form the basis of this bill. The amendment bill suggests changes to the registration of motor vehicle traders, to information disclosure, and to the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal by amending the process for traders renewing their annual registration and by reducing compliance costs associated with making annual statutory declarations as part of registration renewal. The bill also closes a loophole preventing the automatic banning of traders whose registration has lapsed but who are subsequently convicted under the Act for misconduct while registered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe bill removes the requirement for a private seller to display a consumer information notice when selling a vehicle through a car market. However, the recommendation of the Commerce Committee is that clause 7 be amended to make it clear that the Motor Vehicle Sales Act requires motor vehicle traders to display a consumer information notice when displaying or offering for sale a used motor vehicle physically, or when displaying or offering for sale a used motor vehicle over the Internet when a contract to buy the motor vehicle can be entered into online. That is to distinguish between Internet advertisements that offer the ability to enter into a contract to buy the vehicle online, and therefore should display a consumer information notice, and advertisements that are effectively classified advertisements, for which the provision of a consumer information notice would be an unnecessary and onerous requirement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThese measures will bring improvements to the bill. As I said before, this bill is in line with National\u2019s commitment to reduce regulatory compliance costs. At the same time it promotes and protects consumer interests in order to create an environment of confidence and efficiency by making vehicle traders accountable and providing consumers with redress through the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u002207bb4cc4202c4100bc7ce18cc3b50872\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207bb4cc4202c4100bc7ce18cc3b50872\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker, kia ora t\u0101tou katoa i t\u0113nei ahiahi. Kua t\u016B ake t\u0113nei ki te tautoko, me k\u012B, i te tikanga o t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire ka whakatakotohia ki mua aroaro o te Whare. M\u0113n\u0101 ko t\u014Dna p\u016Btake ko te tiaki i te hunga hoko waka nei, ka pai, ka pai, ka pai. Kei te whaiwhai haere t\u0113nei pire i w\u0113tahi i whakatakotohia ki mua i te aroaro o te Whare i ng\u0101 r\u0101 tata hui kaik\u0101 kua hipa ake, ar\u0101, ki te tiaki i te hunga e tuku nei i \u014D r\u0101tau moni m\u014D t\u0113tahi mea p\u0113nei an\u014D r\u0101 i te waka, i ng\u0101 motok\u0101. E ai ki t\u0101 te pire, ko te tino p\u016Btake o t\u0113nei he whakatakoto tikanga, hei whakah\u014Du i te \u0101huatanga o t\u0101 r\u0101tau r\u0113hita \u0101-tau. Ka mutu, ko t\u014Dna tikanga he whakawh\u0101nui atu, m\u0113 k\u012B, i te kupenga, i ng\u0101 here m\u014D te hunga kua whakatahangia n\u0101 ng\u0101 mahi t\u016Bkino pea, ng\u0101 mahi h\u0113 pea kua kitea mai ai i ng\u0101 tau, ar\u0101, me k\u012B, m\u014D te hunga tuku k\u014Drero h\u0113 nei me te mea an\u014D hoki, ko ng\u0101 r\u0113hita, me k\u012B, kua oti pai te w\u0101hi ki ng\u0101 r\u0113hita o t\u0113r\u0101 momo hunga. N\u014D reira, \u0101, pai tonu \u0113nei k\u014Drero katoa koinei m\u0101tau e tautoko nei.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKa mutu, hei whakaatu i te \u0101huatanga o te p\u016Bmau, o te tino hiahia o te K\u0101wanatanga ki te k\u014Dkiri i t\u0113nei take, ko t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 take o te pire nei, he whakawh\u0101nui atu i te titiro o t\u0113nei pire, ar\u0101, kia wh\u0101nui tonu te titiro o te Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal. Ko t\u0101 r\u0101tau m\u0113n\u0101 ka whakatakoto whaina ki runga i t\u0113nei hunga, kua piki haere t\u0113r\u0101 mai i te rima tekau mano t\u0101ra, ki te kotahi rau mano t\u0101ra i raro i te \u0101huatanga o t\u0113nei ture. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI tino aro atu au ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero o te hunga o roto o te Community Law Centre o \u014Ctepoti. Ko t\u0101 r\u0101tau ko te tino tautoko i te tikanga o t\u0113nei pire, ka mutu, ko t\u0101 r\u0101tau tino k\u014Drero, ko te k\u012B atu he pai ki a r\u0101tau kia whakaatu w\u0113tahi k\u014Drero i runga i ng\u0101 waka, hei kupu \u0101whina ki te hunga hokohoko nei i ng\u0101 waka. N\u014D reira ki taku titiro he mea \u0101whina t\u0113nei. M\u0113n\u0101 ka puta mai, me k\u012B, ng\u0101 k\u014Drero tautohetohe, taupatupatu r\u0101nei, m\u014D te pai r\u0101nei, kino r\u0101nei o te waka e hokona nei, ka mutu, te t\u016Bmanako ka tiaki pai i te \u0101huatanga, me k\u012B, ka noho hei kupu k\u014Drero hei tiaki i te hunga e hoko nei i ng\u0101 waka. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKi a au nei e tika ana kia m\u014Dhio mai ai te hunga hoko i ng\u0101 waka m\u0113n\u0101, ka rere tika tonu te moni ki runga i te rawa pai, ka mutu, kia m\u014Dhio mai ai m\u0113n\u0101 he moni kei runga, he nama r\u0101nei kei runga tonu i te waka, p\u0113hea te tawhiti o te waka, p\u0113hea te roa, me k\u012B, te tawhiti o te haere o te waka, ka mutu, m\u0113n\u0101 e tika ana te whakaaetanga \u0101-tika, me te r\u0113hita o taua waka. N\u014D reira he pai k\u014Drero pai \u0113nei hei whakatakoto ki runga pepa. Kei te tautoko te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i t\u0113nei, ka mutu, kei te tautoko ake i te k\u014Drero a te taraipiunara i te pire nei, ki te k\u012B, me p\u0101nui wh\u0101nuitia ng\u0101 k\u014Drero ki runga i te ipurangi, kia taea ai e te motu wh\u0101nui tonu te kite atu i te whakahaere o \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 kamupene nei. N\u0101, me pai \u0113nei i te mea, me whakanui i te Minita m\u014D ng\u0101 Take Consumer Affairs i tana aronga i t\u0113nei take. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EEngari, anei an\u014D \u0113tahi p\u0101tai hei mea whakatakoto ki mua i a ia, hei w\u0101nanga m\u0101na \u0101 ng\u0101 r\u0101 kei mua i te aroaro. E toru ng\u0101 take. Tuatahi, me k\u012B, ko te t\u016Bmanako ka \u0101ta titiro ia ki ng\u0101 here \u0101-waka nei m\u014D ng\u0101 tamariki, m\u014D ng\u0101 mokopuna kei roto i ng\u0101 waka. I puta mai t\u0113nei k\u014Drero i te r\u014Dp\u016B e k\u012Ba ana, ko Te Pu\u0101waitanga ki \u014Ctautahi Trust. I roto i te \u0101huatanga o t\u0101 r\u0101tau titiro, me k\u012B, ki ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga e p\u0101 ana ki ng\u0101 tamariki, te hauora o ng\u0101 tamariki, i roto i ng\u0101 waka \u0101-wh\u0101nau. E ai ki t\u0101 r\u0101tau, o ng\u0101 motok\u0101, o ng\u0101 waka tekau, e rua o aua waka, he tamariki kei roto, ehara i te mea kei te herea n\u0101 te t\u0101tua. Ka mutu, o ia rima waka me \u0113r\u0101 here \u0101-t\u016Bru, kotahi anake e tika ana tana here ki roto i te waka. N\u014D reira, e tika ana me tumeke t\u0101tau ki \u0113r\u0101 momo kaute. Ko t\u0101 r\u0101tau, ko te k\u012B atu me titiro ki t\u0113nei \u0101huatanga, me kaha tiaki t\u0101tau i ng\u0101 tamariki mai i te wh\u0101nautanga mai ki roto i ng\u0101 t\u016Bru here, hei tiaki i ng\u0101 tamariki i roto i ng\u0101 waka. N\u014D reira anei au e p\u0101tai nei, \u0101, m\u0113n\u0101 tekau m\u0101 ono tamariki ka mate ia tau, n\u0101 runga i te \u0101huatanga m\u014D ng\u0101 aitu\u0101 i te rori, me t\u016Bpato ka tika. Ka mutu, rua rau, whitu tekau m\u0101 rima o r\u0101tau, o ng\u0101 tamariki o te motu, me k\u012B, ka heria ki te h\u014Dhipera. N\u014D reira \u0113nei k\u014Drero katoa he whakat\u016Bpato i a t\u0101tau, me te mea an\u014D hoki, te t\u016Bmanako ia ka tirohia t\u0113nei take e te Minita. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKo te take tuarua ko te hunga haere kore raihana. Karekau he paku raihana ki te k\u012B atu, anei, kua mana taku taraiwa i te waka. E ai ki t\u0101 t\u0113tahi rangahau i roto i te Injury Prevention Research Unit i te Kura Rongo\u0101 o \u014Ctautahi, te whare w\u0101nanga ki taku m\u014Dhio, e ai ki t\u0101 r\u0101tau rangahau, waru rau, rua tekau m\u0101 rima o ng\u0101 taraiwa M\u0101ori, he taraiwa M\u0101ori i roto i ng\u0101 t\u0101one, me k\u012B, i tuawhenua. N\u014D reira ko t\u0113nei mahi ko te taraiwa kore raihana i waenganui i te iwi M\u0101ori, kei waenganui i a t\u0101tau. Kai konei te mahi, he taraiwa kore raihana. Ka mutu, i roto i t\u0113tahi atu o ng\u0101 rangahau, me k\u012B, mai i te AA Driver Education Foundation, i kawe haere i \u0113tahi rangahau i roto i Te Tai Tokerau, i puta te k\u014Drero, iwa tekau m\u0101 rua paih\u0113neti, iwa tekau m\u0101 rua paih\u0113neti o ng\u0101 tangata taraiwa nei i Te Tai Tokerau, karekau he raihana. Iwa tekau m\u0101 rua paih\u0113neti. Ka mutu, rua tekau o \u0113nei t\u0101ngata, k\u0101ore i \u0101hei ki te whiwhi i te raihana, n\u0101 te kore m\u014Dhio ki te tuhi, ki te p\u0101nui i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero. N\u014D reira he mea ohorere t\u0113nei ki a au, otir\u0101 me p\u0113r\u0101 ki te Whare. Ka mutu, i puta te k\u014Drero o te etit\u0101 me k\u012B te kaiwhakatika k\u014Drero o te Car Buyers Guide. Ko t\u0101 r\u0101tau e k\u012B nei, me titiro te k\u0101wanatanga ki te tuku p\u016Btea hei \u0101whina, me k\u012B, i t\u0113nei hunga kore m\u014Dhio ki te p\u0101nui, ki te tuhi r\u0101nei, kia taea ai e r\u0101tau te whiwhi i te raihana. Me hoki an\u014D r\u0101 ki t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero, rua tekau paih\u0113neti k\u0101re i te m\u014Dhio ki te p\u0101nui, ki te tuhi. N\u014D reira koinei te whakahau ki te Minita. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKo te take whakamutunga ko t\u0113r\u0101, ko te \u0101ta titiro, me kaha nei ki te panapana haere, ki te tautoko r\u0101nei i te k\u014Drero, ar\u0101, ko te anti - drink-driving campaign. Me kaha a ia ki te tautoko i t\u0113r\u0101 kaupapa i te mea, te \u0101hua nei ia wiki, ia wiki ka k\u014Drerohia ko te \u0101huatanga o te taraiwa haurangi nei, i roto i te Whare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, koinei ng\u0101 whakat\u016Bpato, tuatahi, ar\u0101 me titiro ki ng\u0101 here \u0101-tamariki i roto i ng\u0101 waka. Ka rua, ko te hunga taraiwa kore raihana. Ka toru, me kaha nei ki te tautoko i t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u014D te taraiwa kore haurangi. N\u014D reira k\u0101ti ake, koinei t\u0101ku hei tautoko i te ia o t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire, me te t\u016Bmanako ia ka aro mai te Minita ki \u0113nei k\u014Drero.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and to us all this afternoon. I rise to support this bill before the House in respect of its purpose. If its purpose is to protect car buyers, then that is great, fine, and wonderful. The goal of this bill, in terms of protecting the rights of buyers when purchasing vehicles, is consistent with that of other bills that have come before the House during urgency in days just past. The bill amends the process for motor vehicle traders to renew their annual registration. In addition, it extends the range of people banned from car trading, such as those who stoop to giving false registration information or those who have lapsed registrations. Because all these measures make pretty good sense to us, we support the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ETo show that the Government is taking this seriously, it intends increasing the jurisdiction of the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal for offences under the Act from $50,000 to $100,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI was interested in the views of the Dunedin Community Law Centre, which strongly supported the consumer focus of this bill. It was particularly aware of the requirement for traders to display a consumer information notice on vehicles, to help consumers in disputes that relate to misrepresentations about the condition of vehicles for sale. That will provide some protection from scurrilous characters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI believe it is important for consumers to know whether there is money owing on a car, the distance travelled by the car, and as well to have the warrant of fitness and vehicle registration information. The M\u0101ori Party is supporting this bill and, further to that, the decision for tribunal findings to be made available on the Internet, and the focus on greater transparency and accountability. This is a positive move, and we congratulate the Minister of Consumer Affairs on her initiative in this regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EHowever, I ask the Minister to consider a few other areas, of which there are three priorities. Priority one is to ensure the use, and correct use, of child restraints. This is a proposal from Te Pu\u0101waitanga ki \u014Ctautahi Trust, which in its role as a Well Child provider has been working on vehicle safety within families. The trust tells us that two cars out of 10 have children travelling unsecured, and only one in five car seats is fitted properly. We should be shocked at those figures. The trust believes there is a need to promote and protect our children from birth, and for them to be in a suitable, correctly fitted child restraint each time they are in a vehicle. And if we have to ask why we should do that, we might think of the 16 children who die each year as a result of a motor vehicle accident, and of the 275 who are hospitalised. So this is a warning to everyone, and hopefully this matter will be considered by the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EPriority two is the issue of unlicensed drivers. A study was conducted by the injury prevention unit at Christchurch school of medicine of 824 M\u0101ori drivers in urban and rural areas. It found that driving before obtaining a driver\u2019s licence was common practice. Another study by the AA Driver Education Foundation of young people in Northland showed that 92 percent had no licence, and 20 percent of these people could not get a licence because they were illiterate. This was a surprise to me, and it should be a surprise to the House. The editor of the car buyers\u2019 guide The Dog and Lemon Guide is calling for the Government to fund a scheme to help those who are illiterate to get a licence. I turn our attention once again to the fact that 20 percent of those drivers are illiterate, and I urge the Minister to take that into consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe final priority I would put to the Minister is to drive the anti - drink-driving campaign hard, because every week the consequences of drink-driving are often mentioned in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESo these are words of caution that, firstly, child restraints be considered; secondly, about the unlicensed drivers; and, thirdly, about the need for a concerted effort to support the anti - drink-driving campaign. That is enough. I support the thrust of this bill and hope that the Minister will show due concern about what has been presented.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c62b7badd5f442f2b1a987316f1ec6f9\u0022\u003ETaxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002247734d68ebfd4d0d87767ee0d07dc22f\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u00221ae1202a784c40649f5f17d2b9f0872d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ae1202a784c40649f5f17d2b9f0872d\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill be now read a second time. The bill proposes a number of taxpayer-friendly measures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe first of these is a very positive change that will allow New Zealanders to bring their retirement savings with them when they return home from Australia permanently. This will be very good news for the many New Zealanders who work in Australia and who, under Australian law, currently have their compulsory superannuation contributions locked into an Australian complying fund until they reach retirement age. For New Zealanders wishing to return home after a number of years in work in Australia, the prospect of leaving behind these contributions can, and does, present a significant financial dilemma. For some it may mean the difference between bringing their skills and experience back to New Zealand or deciding to remain in Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe changes in this bill will help to overcome that problem by allowing New Zealanders with retirement savings in certain Australian superannuation funds to transfer those funds to KiwiSaver when they return home permanently. Similarly, KiwiSaver members who move to Australia will be able to transfer all their savings in the scheme to an Australian complying superannuation scheme, including contributions from the Crown and any member tax credits. Even New Zealanders who have already returned from working in Australia may now be able to retrieve the contributions they were required to make to Australian superannuation funds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe ability to transfer superannuation funds across the Tasman will apply once both Australia and New Zealand have enacted the necessary legislation. The New Zealand experience is contained in this bill, and, notwithstanding events in Australia today, it is understood that Australia will introduce its complying legislation later this year. This change is a major step forward. It is the result of an agreement with Australia that was signed in July last year to recognise the close relationship that we share and the benefits that a skilled, mobile labour force can bring to our two countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe remainder of the bill focuses on a number of technical or remedial measures to improve the way the tax rules work and to reduce compliance costs for taxpayers. These technical measures include changes to the KiwiSaver rules to make them easier for people to understand and to ensure that the rules work in the way that they were intended to. In particular, the enrolment rules for those under 18 years of age are being clarified so that young people and guardians have greater certainty about their obligations under the scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe bill also clarifies the gift duty rules around gifts such as amenities and art work made to local or central government or to approved donee organisations, by making it clear that such gifts are exempt from gift duty. This change will be welcomed by those who want to contribute to their communities by gifting items such as art works or other items for public benefit. I have recently announced that the Government is intending to repeal gift duty altogether if concerns about creditor protection and social assistance targeting can be addressed. Officials are currently consulting on those matters. My expectation is that if gift duty is to be repealed, the provision will be included in the November tax bill later this year. In the meantime, the provisions in this bill tidy up the operation of the existing gift duty rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe bill also sets composite tax rates for 2010-11, which are based on an average of the old and the new rates, to take account of the substantial personal income tax reductions that take effect on 1 October this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EOther technical amendments that the bill contains are intended to make the tax laws easier to apply. They include changes to the legislation on binding rulings, which set out how the Inland Revenue Department will apply tax laws to give greater certainty about the tax implications of business decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EOther changes in the bill are of a remedial nature. They remove certain unintended consequences following earlier reforms. Further to those changes, I advise the House that at the Committee stage I shall release a Supplementary Order Paper relating to several other measures. The most important of those will be to remove the taxation impediments for banks and their covered bond programmes. The rest will be of a more remedial nature, but all of them need to be legislated for as soon as possible. Included amongst those other matters is an adjustment to the prospect of tax treatment of certain optional convertible notes, and minor changes to the transitional life insurance rules. These are both changes that taxpayers have asked for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EIn bringing the bill to its second reading, I want to record my thanks to all the members of the Finance and Expenditure Committee for their consideration of the bill and for their work in further refining and clarifying its content. The result of their efforts is a package of measures that will help to improve the way the tax rules work across a number of areas, and in so doing will reduce compliance costs for taxpayers. I therefore with pleasure commend this bill to the attention of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022730fb939300c479ba189fb6e5156e49a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022730fb939300c479ba189fb6e5156e49a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on behalf of the Labour Opposition in response to the second reading speech of the Minister of Revenue, the Hon Peter Dunne, on the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill. Labour supports this bill. When members of the public are watching Parliament on television or listening to it on the radio, particularly if the main time they listen to it is around question time or the Wednesday general debate, they sometimes go away thinking that the entire business of this House consists of members calling each other names or attacking each other across the floor. Of course, that is not true. It is on occasions such as this, when we have a largely technical bill, one that makes needed improvements to our tax legislation and is not particularly partisan, a bill which was started under the previous Labour administration, and continued\u2014by the same Minister, it might be observed\u2014in the current one, that we see Parliament at its work in a select committee and in the House making sure that the detail is up to snuff and that the bill will have the effect that it is intended to have. There has been good cooperation in the Finance and Expenditure Committee. I commend its chairman, Craig Foss, and members on all sides for a constructive approach that was taken to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E On process matters, however, I observe one word of slight disappointment, and that is that I heard today that the Minister has a substantive Supplementary Order Paper about banks, covered bond programmes, and other matters, to be introduced in the Committee of the whole House stage. I think it is a matter of some regret that that material was not introduced and subjected to the very useful and open select committee process that had previously ensued. Were the justification for that step simply that taxpayers wanted it, there might be all manner of changes to the tax law that the Minister might propose. He might drop rates to zero! The Budget went part of the way there in some regards. He might get it into his head to go all the way. There must be another reason for that. We will not prejudge it, but I will record now that it is not good practice for this House to face substantive Supplementary Order Papers on the floor, when that could have been avoided in a bipartisan process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EI will briefly touch on the summary of the bill\u2019s provisions. I will raise a couple of specific matters, and then talk about the context for a minute or two. The bill introduces the following: the trans-Tasman portability of retirement savings. That is the most important measure in the bill, in my view. It applies to New Zealanders who have not opted out of KiwiSaver hitherto, and who move across the Tasman for family or employment reasons. It might be observed that they will not be going for lower tax rates, because tax rates in Australia are significantly higher than tax rates in New Zealand. But if they move across the Tasman, they can take their KiwiSaver savings with them, rather than, as previously, having to wait until they are 65 to collect them. That will be important to them if they are setting up a new home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EHowever, I think this needs to be monitored. It is bipartisan, but we need to monitor it, because if there is a perverse effect such that the early release of substantial KiwiSaver funds acts as an incentive for people to move across the Tasman, we might find that it runs contrary to other objectives of the Government, such as closing the gap with Australia or stopping the brain drain\u2014although we are hearing less and less about those measures as the gap widens and more Kiwis leave. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe next point is that there are new rules for under-18-year-olds seeking to enrol in KiwiSaver, where the parents\u2019 or guardians\u2019 permission is required. That is absolutely sensible, although we would note that we strongly believe\u2014and I will expand on this later\u2014that KiwiSaver remains a very, very important step towards closing the country\u2019s yawning savings deficit and thereby assisting to reduce the current account deficit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe bill introduces flexibility in a provision applying to resident cooperative companies that require a member to hold shares in proportion to their trading stock transactions with the company. As cooperatives become a broader and more important part of our economy, that flexibility is to be welcomed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThere is the effective cancellation of branch equivalent tax account debits, and there is a 5-year tax exemption on profits for non-residents operating offshore rigs or seismic vessels in New Zealand. I would not be surprised if some member moves an amendment that states \u201Cprovided that they do not spew oil all over our beaches\u201D. Let us hope that they do not. We will of course hold the accountability instruments of the Government to account in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThere are a number of new rules relating to binding rulings. Binding rulings are important, but sometimes it is to be observed that the private sector, might we say it, uses a ruling for purposes beyond that for which it was originally intended. One can think of certain large-scale banking transactions that have been reversed by the courts and by negotiation with the Inland Revenue Department, where there was allegedly an unfit purpose for which binding rulings were quoted. However, the changes in the bill are useful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThere is an exemption from gift duty for gifts made to local or central government, donee organisations, and distributions of property made in accordance with certain court orders\u2014and we are pleased to admit Cure Kids to the list of charitable donee organisations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EI will touch on three broader themes that attach themselves to the bill. The first is concerning retirement savings, the second is about KiwiSaver, and the third is about anti-avoidance measures, which relate to the provisions for loss attributing qualifying companies in clauses 20G and 20H of the bill. Firstly, on retirement savings portability, Labour, as I have said before, believes that it is a sensible arrangement. That is the Minister\u2019s favourite word, and it is embodied in the bill. It allows more flexibility for New Zealanders. The chief policy risk is that there is a perverse effect, whereby the flexibility around KiwiSaver deductions becomes somewhat greater, or it is easier for New Zealanders to get their money out of the scheme if they go across the Ditch to live in Aussie. They can take their KiwiSaver savings with them earlier than they might be able to access them in New Zealand. We will just need to monitor that. I believe that people will make their decisions about where they live for other and different reasons, but it is not beyond the realm of possibility that we may need to come back and look at that in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIt is a positive step for current and future New Zealand superannuitants, and this Government has, however, ultimately undermined their future security by other measures. It would be remiss of me, notwithstanding the bipartisan nature of this legislation, not to note again for this House that there has been a grievous broken promise in regard to superannuation repeated once again in Budget 2010. The single biggest decision, if we can call it that, that was made in regard to Budget 2009 was the decade of deferrals of the pre-funding of New Zealand superannuation. As members and listeners will recall, that pre-funding\u2014the paying into the New Zealand Superannuation Fund of $2 billion or $3 billion a year to build up a fund about the size of the New Zealand economy of $160 billion\u2014was there to support the baby boom as they moved through to superannuation. Otherwise, there would not be enough tax revenue to pay their pension. By not pre-funding, the Government has put at risk the future of superannuation. There are no two ways about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIn Budget 2010, not only has National broken its promise to recommence pre-funding when the Government\u2019s books are in surplus\u2014that is now 2016, and the pre-funding does not supposedly resume until 2019, 3 years later\u2014but even then, I note that in the fiscal risks section of the Budget documents that funding stream has been removed as \u201Cno longer required\u201D. I am sure Grey Power members will be extremely concerned to hear that. We are extremely concerned. We think it is irresponsible, and I have made my point on that, I believe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EOn KiwiSaver, likewise, at a time when the National Government, the Labour Opposition, and members on the cross benches are all remarkably agreed on the need to rebalance this economy in the wake of the global financial crisis, in the wake of the then exposed housing and property bubble, and at a time when we all agree that the key ingredient to narrowing the financial deficit on our current account, which drives the whole kit and caboodle, is to improve our domestic savings rate, how silly it now seems that one of the first moves the incoming Government made was to halve the incentives for ordinary Kiwis to participate in KiwiSaver, taking it from 4 percent to 2 percent. That is a matter of great regret, and I think it is a measure that everybody in this House will come to regret. Labour is pledging again today that we will not only restore KiwiSaver but also take it forward. We believe it is a very, very important measure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EMy final point in conclusion is just a small point on loss attributing qualifying companies. There are a couple of technical measures in the bill, clauses 20G and 20H, which make them easier to use. We expect further substantive reform from this Government to tighten the provisions on loss attributing qualifying companies, because they are a black hole.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba59bdf2618b493d8263fe23847057e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba59bdf2618b493d8263fe23847057e6\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I acknowledge previous speakers. I thank the Finance and Expenditure Committee for its participation in the work done on the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill before us now. It has changed a bit since it arrived at our committee, and I congratulate Minister Dunne, in particular, but also Minister English and Minister Power, because this bill is part of the negotiations on a single economic market with Australia. They are all involved in these discussions and reaching agreement. As Minister Dunne just noted, some changes are still to happen on the Australian side, but the goodwill and good faith are there, and they will be facilitated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI also thank the officials of our committee and the Inland Revenue Department for their advice, and particularly our specialist tax adviser Therese Turner. Almost by default, we have an independent drafting specialist adviser, Mr David McLay, in this instance for this tax bill. Of course, I thank members of the Finance and Expenditure Committee. The Hon David Cunliffe is quite right: the committee worked very well together on this bill, and saw what it needed to do to make some changes and amendments to the bill that came before us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI will not be making a long speech, but I raise a couple of points in the bill that we will be addressing in the Committee stage. Of interest to submitters\u2014I think there were about 18 of them\u2014were the binding rulings, around which there was a fair bit of discussion; solid representation from the professional sector; and particularly the branch equivalent tax account debit changes. There were some quite robust submissions on those issues. I think the committee as a whole learnt a fair bit about that. We have made substantive changes to what was originally proposed in the bill that came to the committee. Generally, we have found pretty good common-sense solutions, which follow intent and acknowledge original notice given to the proposed changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EAnother item that had discussion was the remedial amendments to KiwiSaver. As policy as large as KiwiSaver pans out, some changes need to come on the way through. But particularly in respect of the treatment for under-18s in KiwiSaver, there were some quite strong allegations of children being signed up without necessary knowledge of their parents. Suddenly an 18-year-old is making a decision, for the rest of his or her life, to opt into KiwiSaver, and we thought that was unfair, so we had some good advice on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI agreed with most of what the previous speaker, the Hon David Cunliffe, said until he got to his context part. We reject totally his allegations of a broken promise in and around superannuation, but we will save that for another day. I will leave the House with one point: when the Government is borrowing about $14 billion and paying something like 5.5 percent for it, and it has financial assets on the other side achieving something like 4 percent for it, well, there is 1.5 percent worth of quite substantial loss to the taxpayer. Simply trying to keep one organisation going while funding another one is like having a $400,000 mortgage and a $200,000 savings scheme. One gives away the spread both ways, but at the end of the day the taxpayer is the loser.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI look forward to the Committee stage of this bill. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002258b981f338db4a1faae4b5a2939191b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258b981f338db4a1faae4b5a2939191b5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The previous speaker, Craig Foss, made reference to the fact that the Government is borrowing money. Why, then, did the Government increase the amount of money that it was borrowing in order to fund tax cuts that go so disproportionately to the people in society who are already best off?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI turn to the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill. As previous speakers have said on behalf of the Labour Party, we support this bill, which improves the portability of retirement savings between New Zealand and Australia. There are some restrictions on portability that I know will disappoint some people. For example, KiwiSaver contributions can be used by a first-home purchaser to go towards the deposit. But, as I understand it, the agreement in respect of portability with Australia means that the savings that are transferred from an Australian scheme to a KiwiSaver scheme cannot be used towards a house purchase in New Zealand, and that is a sad detriment. Let us hope that sometime in the future that might be able to be fixed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EA couple of points need to be made in the discussion about KiwiSaver. Firstly, New Zealand has an abysmal savings record. We really do have a poor savings record. New Zealand has, for many years, spent more than it earns, and that is reflected in our current account deficit. Increasingly, it is reflected in the non-tradable part of our current account deficit, in the amount of interest and dividends that flow to other parts of the world as a consequence of us owing ever-greater amounts to overseas jurisdictions. Of course, this bill, which improves portability of retirement savings between Australia and New Zealand, exists only because the previous Government introduced KiwiSaver. Were it not for that, we would not have portability of retirement savings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIt is notable that the National Government opposed the Budget when we introduced KiwiSaver. Its mantra at the time was that we should have been having more income tax cuts, which would have meant we could not afford the incentives that were put in place by KiwiSaver. Indeed, following National\u2019s election to Government, the National-led Government, faced with a choice between keeping the generosity of KiwiSaver and delivering income tax cuts, opted for income tax cuts ahead of improved savings. This was a bad mistake for New Zealand. Even though KiwiSaver has begun to improve New Zealand\u2019s savings record, it is still lamentably poor when compared with, for example, Australia\u2019s. Australia is going in the opposite direction. Australia announced in its latest Budget that over the next few years it is increasing compulsory savings through its workplace superannuation scheme from 9 percent of earnings, which it currently is, to 12 percent. That makes our savings look lamentably poor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe National Government has a mantra that says that this latest Budget is the greatest tax switch, or something like that, in the last 20 years, and that somehow it is changing the shape of the New Zealand economy in a dramatic way following its last Budget. We all know that that is an exaggeration. There is a change towards taxing consumption through GST with reciprocal decreases to income tax, but of course there are two things to be noted about that. Most of the net benefit of that goes to the people who are the highest earners. The total proportion of tax that is paid by the lower two-thirds of earners goes up, and the proportion of tax paid by the higher earners goes down. The other point is that low to middle income earners generally have to spend all of their earnings to live. Although they might have an increase in their income after the deduction of income tax, they spend it all. They have to pay GST on everything that they spend, essentially, or most of what they spend, and therefore they do not end up much better off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIf the Government was really interested in catching up with Australia, it would have addressed the biggest difference between New Zealand and Australia, which is savings and investment. Australia has more savings, it has deeper capital markets, and it has more money to invest in profitable, sophisticated enterprises that generate foreign exchange earnings, and Australia also avoids ownership of its own country by overseas interests to the same extent. Of course, if we sell something to an overseas party because we are running such an enormous current account deficit as New Zealand is, in the end the overseas party gets the dividend flows from the future profits of the enterprises that it has purchased from New Zealanders. In the case of lending to New Zealanders via banks, that overseas party also get the interest flows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIf people do not believe that that is the biggest difference between New Zealand and Australia, and if they really do think the big difference between New Zealand and Australia is mining, they are sadly mistaken. I saw a presentation recently from Rick Boven from the New Zealand Institute, who told us that mining accounts for approximately 10 percent of the difference between the earnings in Australia and New Zealand. It is not even the majority; it is 10 percent. There might be some other flow-on benefits to other parts of the economy, but essentially 10 percent of the difference lies in mining, which is not as the Minister for Economic Development, Gerry Brownlee, would have us believe. The big difference lies in capital markets and savings. If we want an example of that, we should reflect on the fact that in 2007 the combined profit of the four biggest banks in New Zealand was more than the combined profit of the rest of the NZX 50\u2014that is, the 50 largest companies in New Zealand listed on the New Zealand Exchange. The combined profit of those four banks was greater than the profits of the balance of the NZX 50.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe should then reflect on the fact that those four banks are Australian-owned. The Australians own not just their own banks, they own ours. The collective profitability of those banks is bigger than the rest of the NZX 50. We do not have much left there that we own, either. It is absolutely clear that the big difference between New Zealand and Australia lies in the fact that over the years Australia has saved. I am pleased to see Sir Roger Douglas in the House. I am pleased to again acknowledge him in respect of the changes that he has tried to make in New Zealand for close to 40 years on this issue. It goes back to the Kirk savings scheme, which Sir Roger was responsible for the design of, and subsequent moves. Every time a Labour Government takes steps towards the progress that Australia has made\u2014actually, the Australians started later than Kirk, and look what it has done for them\u2014National comes in and undermines it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIt is good that this portability legislation is before the House today. It would not be here but for the introduction of KiwiSaver by the previous Government. But, more important, it is an opportunity for us to reflect on why New Zealand is so much less economically well off compared with Australia, and it relates to savings. I really cannot emphasise that point enough. The big difference between New Zealand and Australia is savings and investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAnother area that is related to this, which is not addressed by the bill but which I think needs to be considered, is the tax mix in New Zealand. Our tax mix is different from that of Australia and the rest of the OECD. Despite Bill English\u2019s comments to the contrary, his so-called tax switch did nothing significant to change that. National\u2019s tax switch not only was unaffordable in terms of the effect on the Government deficit but has also increased the tax burden of businesses, as opposed to individuals. Given that we rely upon businesses to generate the wealth that we need to earn incomes and generate the taxation revenue that the Government needs to pay for health and education, it seemed to me to be a retrograde step\u2014particularly the reduction in depreciation for short-lived assets that are so expensive for our export businesses to purchase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ETrans-Tasman portability of retirement savings is a good thing. It is sad that we cannot enable people to use them for a first-home purchase deposit if they bring back money from Australia. It is progress, none the less. But the big difference between New Zealand and Australia is savings. This bill is an opportunity to highlight that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u002233218859faca4504ad32e54f7fddcf74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233218859faca4504ad32e54f7fddcf74\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call this afternoon on the second reading of the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill. I was part of the Finance and Expenditure Committee that examined the bill. Tax legislation is possibly not the most stimulating of topics that we deal with in this House, and for a wider audience it possibly does not generate the highest levels of interest. But it was quite an interesting process to work through the bill, which enjoys a broad level of support in the House, and I think that is sensible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThere are certainly sensible measures within the bill, such as allowing much easier flow of retirement savings between New Zealand and Australia. That is a welcome step. Many, many New Zealanders who have worked in Australia and been subject to its compulsory retirement savings scheme have come back to New Zealand and been unable to access or transfer those funds, and in the time between their transfer back to New Zealand and their reaching retirement age they have simply lost touch with those funds. Huge sums of money in Australia have not found their way back to their rightful owners. Anything we can do to ensure New Zealanders get the benefit of retirement savings they have made in Australia\u2014and similarly for New Zealanders who go to Australia\u2014is to be encouraged and applauded, and I certainly do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI will briefly touch on two other aspects of the bill that I found interesting during its passage through the Finance and Expenditure Committee. The first of those tidies up the rules for under-18-year-olds enrolling in KiwiSaver. Some traps in that process had been discovered that we had to work through. We looked at some interesting issues in relation to guardianship and the various situations that under-18-year-olds might find themselves in. The committee spent a bit of time on that, with help from officials, and I am comfortable that the position we have come to is a sensible one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe last matter I want to touch on briefly in this contribution is the reasonably well overlooked provisions in this legislation relating to binding rulings. Binding rulings are a part of tax law that I am very interested in because I think they are a very, very important part of our tax structure whereby we enable taxpayers to find out in advance what the tax consequences will be, rather than saying: \u201CHave a go, enter in, then we\u2019ll tell you later whether you\u2019ve got it badly wrong.\u201D They are a very valuable part of our tax system and one that I would like to see better utilised. So I applaud anything that clarifies the way in which they work. Although the provisions in the bill seem restrictive on the face of it, they make it clear where the Commissioner of Inland Revenue can and cannot issue a binding ruling. To the extent that they will help taxpayers and their advisers better understand that process and know when to use it, I think they are a welcome step, and I certainly encourage taxpayers to take full of advantage of them. As I said, any step we can take to enable people to understand how tax law will affect them at the front end of a transaction is to be welcomed. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb918fc96f184d30a8fbdc5b162b47c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb918fc96f184d30a8fbdc5b162b47c8\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill. There is no doubt that that is quite a mouthful. It is another bill that was started under Labour that is being debated in this session of urgency. The bill is supported by all in the House. It is a sensible bill and it goes a long way to clearing up a few areas and making it easier for people to understand tax matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAs has already been mentioned, the main provision is the introduction of changes to the tax rules to allow New Zealanders returning home from Australia, or Australians deciding that this is really the best place in the world to live, to bring their retirement savings with them, and for New Zealanders to take their retirement savings to Australia if they decide that the land of no clouds, severe water shortages, and a million Russel Normans is better than Godzone. The bill also includes a number of technical changes to the rules surrounding KiwiSaver, gift duty exemptions, and binding rulings to improve the way in which the rules work and to reduce compliance costs for taxpayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn regard to retirement savings portability, as mentioned, it is a sensible arrangement. We have been told that under this scheme potentially $16.6 billion in lost contributions from New Zealanders working in Australia would come back to New Zealand. Even if a fraction of that money was to come back home it would have a positive impact. When we consider how the country has been hollowed out to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars as a result of the finance company collapses, then any money that returns this way in the form of savings is more than welcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAnd, of course, Australians know how to save. As my colleague David Parker alluded to, the Australian superannuation scheme is light years ahead of the New Zealand equivalent. That this Government keeps comparing itself with Australia\u2019s is a little strange, if not downright disingenuous, all things considered. This National Government has ultimately undermined its commitment to New Zealand superannuation. We have the Cullen fund, which was designed as a top-up to the Government\u2019s national superannuation, and this Government axed contributions to it. Since this decision was taken by Mr English, the Cullen fund has gone on to make a small fortune as the global equity markets have recovered in the wake of the global financial economic crisis. Then we have KiwiSaver. About 1 million Kiwis have taken up this scheme. I ask Iain Lees-Galloway whether he remembers who developed KiwiSaver. Was it a Labour Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265141ba7055b4085a2b14fa61320c4a7\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: The Labour Government\u2014Michael Cullen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba067c927c8b471b987b44476150e39c\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I think it was a Labour Government. A million Kiwis view it as a vital part of their retirement savings and planning for the future, which is what the scheme was set up for. One of the major differences between the New Zealand scheme and the Australian scheme is that theirs is compulsory. We once had a compulsory superannuation scheme whose architect was Sir Roger Douglas when part of the Kirk Cabinet. It was visionary at the time, only it was removed, illegally as it turned out, by Prime Minister Muldoon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226ca8defd5f7487ca501ce3d95a90136\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: Which Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204156de233704e57a7f3590ea478bf14\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: National, I think. It is good to see Sir Roger Douglas sitting in the House, because that was visionary legislation. Imagine what our economy would look like now if his superannuation scheme had continued like the Australian scheme did\u2014it was set up at about the same time\u2014into the 21st century. I think this economy would look quite different now if Sir Roger\u2019s scheme had continued.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAs David Parker also mentioned, Australian employers will soon be obliged to pay 12 percent of an employee\u2019s salary into the fund and to invest it in local and international infrastructure as well as in a huge number of other local and international investments. Members should correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that it is one of the largest superannuation funds in the world right now, and growing. And this Government has cut employer contributions when the Australians are increasing theirs. It is quite interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAnyway, I come back to the bill and its key provisions. It includes trans-Tasman portability of retirement savings. The portability arrangements will allow retirees who have retirement savings in both New Zealand and Australia to consolidate them in one account in their country of residence. These amendments give effect to an agreement between the Minister of Finance and the Australian Treasurer made in July 2009. These arrangements are expected to come into effect during the second half of 2010. The amendments cover only the transfer of retirement savings between the KiwiSaver scheme and an Australian complying superannuation fund regulated by the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority. By that I mean that it cannot be a private superannuation scheme; it has to be a KiwiSaver scheme. A member must permanently emigrate to Australia and supply proof of his or her emigration to the provider. In order to protect the value of the savings, transfers of savings between New Zealand and Australia will be exempt from any entry or exit taxes. For permanent emigration to a country other than Australia the current rules for transfer and cash withdrawals will apply. However, if a member permanently emigrates to Australia the following new rules will apply\u2014and I am referring to a member of the scheme, not a member of this House. Well, I suppose it could be a member of this House if a member wanted to go there\u2014or to go back home. A member will be able to transfer all of the Crown contributions; his or her member tax credits will not be recovered by the Crown. Retirement savings may not be withdrawn in cash, and a member must transfer the full amount of his or her savings and not a partial amount.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ERequirements for proof of permanent emigration to Australia will be the same as for permanent emigration to other countries. KiwiSaver members can request to transfer their savings at any time after supplying the provider with proof of their permanent emigration to Australia, and fees charged by KiwiSaver providers on the transfer of retirement savings to Australia must not be unreasonable. I cannot imagine the investment sector being unreasonable! Why would that provision need to be included? Australian rules will provide that New Zealand - sourced retirement savings may not be transferred from Australia to a third country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe following rules will apply to funds transferred from Australia to KiwiSaver. A person who is retired may withdraw his or her Australian-sourced retirement savings at age 60. A member tax credit of up to $1,428 per year will not be paid on contributions to KiwiSaver schemes consisting of Australia-sourced retirement savings. Australia-sourced retirement savings may not be withdrawn for use for the purpose of buying a first home, diverted to a member\u2019s mortgage repayments under the mortgage diversion facility, or used to count towards eligibility for deposit subsidy. Australia-sourced retirement savings may not be transferred to a third country, either. [Interruption] I know that this is rather dry, but this is an important bill because a hell of a lot of people in Australia want to come home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea63dcad7db34c97b7403a9e21eb22c4\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, it\u2019s fascinating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a31554616694d2abcedd3ffdedb9b70\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is important that we outline some of the reasons we are doing this and some of the practical measures. When the member opposite starts jumping up and down about speeches, I have to ask what planet he is on. He is the man who introduced \u201Cthree strikes\u201D, and what a load of bollocks that was. I come back to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248b76edd3a634abe891ed923660a9050\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely! 87 percent of the public are wrong, Nash! That\u2019s why you\u2019re sitting over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de04452109f34e05b93f02bfc87f4375\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Is someone talking? Is there a noise somewhere in the House? Anyway, the current inability of individuals to streamline and consolidate their personal retirement savings has led to some individuals paying multiple fees for the administration of their retirement savings account. These costs undermine the effectiveness of policies aimed at improving retirement living standards. Also, the ability to transfer savings is one factor individuals take into account when considering employment opportunities on either side of the Tasman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe Australian superannuation Minister has indicated that around A$13 billion is involved, and I mentioned this before. That is about NZ$16.6 billion in lost retirement savings in many small retirement savings accounts of New Zealand workers in Australia. Under the status quo an individual may transfer their KiwiSaver savings to Australia on permanently emigrating there, but Australian complying superannuation funds may not be transferred to New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThere are a number of other provisions in the bill. I will leave it at that because it is a very good bill. Mr Foss acted as a good chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee. We received some very good advice from the Inland Revenue Department and some good submissions as well. It is good legislation, so I commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022 data-id=\u002235fee26c683d4d8f96ee9dfe6a4f8ec8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235fee26c683d4d8f96ee9dfe6a4f8ec8\u0022\u003EAARON GILMORE (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great pleasure to follow that invigorating speech from the wonderful revenue spokesperson from the Opposition, Stuart Nash. This Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill contains a whole lot of issues and tidy-up matters, and I will focus on a couple of the remedial matters. We are a Government, unlike others in the world, that is making the tax system simpler and easier, and reducing costs to people, and I think they are really neat things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EA couple of good provisions in this bill have not been touched on by previous speakers, and I think they are worth mentioning. One of those is the exemption from gift duty for the gifting of assets to city council organisations. We had a couple of submitters who were very keen to make sure that that measure went through. This arose when there were a number of organisations gifting certain assets to local government, in particular, which would result in gift duty. That really was not a sensible situation, and it discouraged the gifting of assets to local government. So there is an exemption in the legislation that allows for transfers to be made to local or central government. There have been some quite high-profile cases where if this measure had not been passed, there would have been some particular issues and problems that would have discouraged sensible gifting arrangements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to touch on is the issue of the branch equivalent tax account debits\u2014or BETA debits. For people like me who happen to be qualified accountants, this is quite an exciting aspect of the tax law. But for most people this is something that makes them shake their heads and roll their eyes. I can see Mr Garrett doing the same. These things are quite important because they allow for the offsets that exist when companies are investing overseas. Some other changes have been made in order to simplify tax law, so the need for this particular aspect of tax law has been removed as a result of this bill. I think that is a really good thing. Again, this is a Government that believes in simplification, and that was a good step forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EWe had a very good chairperson through this select committee process in Craig Foss\u2014and I note that Mr Nash over there passed over him in his speech. He is a wonderful MP from the Tukituki\u2014a beautiful part of the world, in the Hawke\u2019s Bay. I thought we had wonderful work from the officials, who tried to grapple with some very complicated matters. I know that tax is never the most exciting topic at the best of times, but they made it interesting enough for members who did not quite have a tax background to get their heads around it and understand the importance of some of these changes, and I think that is a good thing. This bill wraps up all of that stuff in a way that it can be understood, and it sorts a whole lot of things out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EI do not want to touch on anything more in particular on the tax changes. A few barbs have been thrown from the Opposition about some of the wider issues around superannuation, but the issue of savings and investment is part of a journey. This bill is another step along that journey towards improving our savings rates and encouraging people, with the right incentives, to do a bit more and bring more savings back to New Zealand\u2014and that has to be neat. For those Kiwis coming home to New Zealand\u2014and there have been hundreds of thousands of them coming home in the last 18 months under a John Key - led Government\u2014this bill will allow them to bring their savings through with KiwiSaver, and I think that is a good step forward to bolster our private savings effort.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EI finish off by talking about an issue that is quite exciting\u2014the continuing exemption for offshore oil drilling operators. I know that there is some fear and loathing about that, but I think that that has the potential to bring significant funds into New Zealand, and that has to be a wonderful thing. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u00222ab1d5dcdf394523b29161bb174de1b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ab1d5dcdf394523b29161bb174de1b9\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased as a member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee to contribute to the second reading debate of the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill. It is in large part a wash-up bill for a number of measures, but the most important parts of it, at the heart of the bill, are the key changes that make it much easier for trans-Tasman retirement savings to be moved from one side of the Tasman to the other. That is an absolutely essential change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI think that just about every member of this House would acknowledge that although we still remain very firmly two countries, we are also very much one market. There is a huge flow of people from one side of the Tasman to the other, and it is not all a two-way trade. I imagine that we might see soon a former Australian Prime Minister in retirement, perhaps, and we might have a Socceroos coach looking for somewhere to bolthole for awhile. So these people and many, many others might well need the benefits of a better flow of trans-Tasman portable superannuation savings. It happens across the age spectrum. My dear late parents emigrated to Australia 8 years ago at the age of 82, with two of my brothers living there. They may have got some modest benefit from these changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe KiwiSaver scheme was extraordinarily well-designed by Michael Cullen, and I think there was probably input from the then Minister of Revenue and current Minister of Revenue, Peter Dunne. In fact, the KiwiSaver regime did and still does allow New Zealanders to take their savings to Australia. Currently, and unfortunately, the matter being addressed by this bill is that those New Zealanders who live in Australia are not so able to move their savings back over here should they wish, upon retirement, to return to the land of their birth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EWe are talking about sums estimated at A$13 billion or NZ$16.5 billion, and they are amounts that are bigger perhaps than the health budget in this country. We are talking about very, very large amounts of money, and I think that has the effect of locking New Zealanders who might wish to return home for their final years into staying in Australia beyond the time they would prefer to come home. So this is a very sensible and even essential set of changes to allow a better flow of trans-Tasman savings. It is a step forward in that respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThat said, obviously when we look at the whole context of savings we do need to note that at the same time that the Government assists with this step forward it takes two steps backwards when we consider the broader view of superannuation. The first thing, of course, was the decision in last year\u2019s Budget to suspend contributions to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. I noted the comment from Finance and Expenditure Committee chair, Craig Foss, a speech or two ago that it is not appropriate to borrow for savings. Of course, that does not apply when the Government wants to borrow to fund tax cuts as it has done in this year\u2019s Budget\u2014that is a perfectly appropriate thing to do. The other thing is that the analysis earlier last year was that the New Zealand Superannuation Fund was losing money and therefore it should not be invested in, when in fact the latest Treasury figures show that the Government\u2019s superannuation fund\u2014the national superannuation fund, the Cullen fund\u2014has bounced right back and is contributing positively, back well and truly into the black. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe other thing to note in this year\u2019s Budget in respect of the superannuation fund is that although we will back in surplus\u2014now projected to be in 5 years\u2014contributions to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund would still be suspended for another 4 years. So we know that the Government has taken a philosophical position about savings, and continues a pattern of behaviour by National Governments over the generations\u2014to not truly support retirement savings. This goes right back to Muldoon\u2019s axing of the excellent Kirk-Rowling Government scheme in 1972-75, which, as has quite rightly been acknowledged, could well be a multibillion dollar fund. It could be projecting us into prosperity if it had been left in place rather than used as a cynical electoral ploy in the 1975 election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EBut let us move back to the current period and look at KiwiSaver, which, of course, has been subject to some amendments through this bill. I note the recent Australian Budget, where employer contributions are required to rise to 12 percent of an employee\u2019s salary, and I note that New Zealand\u2019s Budget last year cut the employer contribution to KiwiSaver from 4 percent to 2 percent. So we now have a 10 percent differential between what one can receive in one\u2019s retirement savings scheme via one\u2019s employer on that side of the Tasman as opposed to this side of the Tasman. That really is a betrayal, I think, of those 1.2 million Kiwis who have signed up to KiwiSaver. National has actually gutted the KiwiSaver scheme in large part. That really is most unfortunate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI want touch on Supplementary Order Paper 105, which the Minister has put forward. I acknowledge the Minister\u2019s move in this area around the Screen Production Incentive Fund. This fund was introduced by the previous Labour Government in 2008 as a measure of assistance to the film industry. In legislation passed last year, changes were made around the taxation treatment of what is known within the industry as \u201CSPIF\u201D, the Screen Production Incentive Fund, and grants from it. The logic of the advice at that time was if a film producer was receiving a grant from the Government, then that person should not get any particular assistance with tax treatment any more fully. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe problem with that was it created a differential treatment between films that received other Government funding, such as through the New Zealand Film Commission, and those that received funding through the Screen Production Incentive Fund. The net effect of that was that any film that did not get a Screen Production Incentive Fund grant was able to immediately start claiming the tax deductions that are obviously needed in the film industry\u2014some make money; a lot do not\u2014but the treatment of a film that received a Screen Production Incentive Fund grant meant that one would have to wait up to 3 years to get any offset against the investment of the film grant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the Minister. He has listened to the New Zealand film industry, which has pointed out this anomaly and the implications of it for the film industry. It is an industry that, as I noted, either does very well or bombs. People lose large amounts of money very regularly in the film industry. So I acknowledge the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper, which tidies up that issue on behalf of the film industry and puts things on a more equitable basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI go back to the new rules around trans-Tasman portability of savings. I acknowledge that the KiwiSaver scheme already has portability inherent in it, because it was well designed by Michael Cullen and the last Labour Government. But this bill will make some changes to the rules around those who permanently emigrate to Australia, and also will now allow New Zealanders resident in Australian who have contributed to a savings scheme in Australia\u2014with those large volumes of employer contributions\u2014to benefit from the return of those funds to New Zealand if they decide to come back here to retire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThere are some constraints as to what one can do with Australian-sourced savings. For instance, if one returns to New Zealand one cannot use it towards any of the KiwiSaver housing-related incentives. Some members may recall that one could use KiwiSaver towards a first home deposit, and so on. So there are limitations upon it, but in the broad sweep of things it is a very, very positive move. It will allow New Zealanders who have contributed\u2014sometimes over 20, 30, or 40 years\u2014to Australian-based superannuation schemes to repatriate those funds back to New Zealand to see them into a well-funded retirement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThese changes are very, very good moves in respect of many thousands of New Zealanders. I think these measures will be an incentive for New Zealanders who currently may be trapped in Australia with quite generous superannuation schemes but were not, until this legislation, able to repatriate those funds, bring them home, and set themselves up for their retirement. Anything that encourages New Zealanders to return to the land of their birth has to be applauded and supported, and that is why Labour has been very, very firmly supportive of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EFinally, I acknowledge Craig Foss, the chair of the select committee, and the officials who supported us through the processing of this bill. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226ddbdc997a7345819b187075bdd9ddf4\u0022\u003EResidential Tenancies Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002284d53cad9be04e8c86341cf2fa78bd0b\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u002254c890e7c8bd460a9710c32216a6bbb7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254c890e7c8bd460a9710c32216a6bbb7\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the Committee stage of the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill to be taken as one question, with unlimited calls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b05dcf6e90a2468795da1a80f262a92a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c4fcc6582c214b9abaea035052cc7a92\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2, schedule, and clauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u0022b100496e32ca47249b8d962cbce4d8e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b100496e32ca47249b8d962cbce4d8e5\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is with great pleasure that we finally come to the Committee stage of the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill. This bill has been a long time in making further progress through the House since it was reported back from the Social Services Committee in about September last year. It is very pleasing that we finally see some action to progress this bill. Labour has put up a number of amendments in the Committee stage. We support this bill; it was Labour legislation to start off with. Unfortunately, following the change of Government the Minister of Housing has seen fit to water down the protections for tenants under this legislation, so I have moved a number of amendments in my name in an attempt to address that watering down and restore some of the protections that Labour saw fit to award tenants under its bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EIt is fair to say as a background that tenants in New Zealand do not enjoy an enormous amount of protection, compared with tenants in other countries around the world that we generally compare ourselves with. Many other OECD countries have secure tenancies; New Zealand does not have those. This means that any tenant in New Zealand can be evicted on 90 days\u2019 notice, for absolutely no reason at all. That does not provide security for families in New Zealand. In saying that, I acknowledge that the situation in New Zealand is very different from, for example, that in Europe, where there are a large number of corporate landlords as opposed to mum and dad landlords. I feel that the bill that Labour originally put forward provided a number of protections for tenants that did not need to be removed, considering that in New Zealand, compared with other countries, the balance is already heavily weighted towards the landlord. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI do not hold out much hope that the Government will support my amendments, because I fear some of these arguments have already been had and lost. But there is one particular amendment on a new issue that I hope the Government will support. Certainly Labour will be arguing very strongly that the amendments put forward in my name in this Committee stage should indeed be supported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe first amendment in my name that I will speak to relates to the issue of letting fees. In Labour\u2019s bill we prohibited the charging of letting fees to tenants. This is the situation where a tenant goes into a letting agency in order to find a property to rent, and a landlord has engaged a letting agency to market the property to prospective tenants. When a tenant finds a property that he or she wishes to rent, the letting agency then charges that tenant a week\u2019s rent, usually\u2014sometimes more\u2014for that service. Labour thought that that was particularly unfair. It is hard enough at the moment for tenants to get into the private rental market, without putting up another barrier. When we consider that rents are likely to rise as a result of the taxation changes in the Budget, we see that this barrier for tenants is not needed and not warranted. I make the comparison of letting agents with real estate agents. When someone wants to sell a house and engages a real estate agent to market that house to prospective buyers, the vendor pays the charges or the commission to the real estate agent, not the person who buys the house.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe argument is often put up\u2014and it was put up to us in the Social Services Committee\u2014that when the rental market is tight, the letting agency is in a way working for the tenant, not for the landlord, because it is so hard to find a property that it is in fact good for the tenant that a letting agency is doing that work. But that argument does not apply when someone sells a house. Regardless of the state of the housing market, the person who has engaged the professional agency, be it a real estate agent or a letting agency, pays the agency\u2019s commission. It is not the decision of the tenant or the purchaser to engage that professional agency, so why should those people be the ones who pay for its services? I welcome the Minister\u2019s arguments on this matter, because it is a significant barrier to getting into the rental market. It is yet another thing that people have to pay, on top of the cost of moving, on top of the cost of an upfront bond, and on top of the fact that rents will be going up\u2014and they have been going up. The letting fee might not seem like a lot of money to some members here, but for someone to have to pay another week\u2019s rent on top of everything else may well make the difference between that person being able or not able to get into the property. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EAn interesting fact is that a lot of property agents came along to the select committee and said they were annoyed because other agents could charge letting fees, but they could not. When we asked them whether they would be happy to just have the right to charge those fees taken away from everyone, they said yes. They wanted to have a level playing field; they did not want to have those fees as a source of income. National Party committee members and Labour Party members agreed there should be a level playing field, but the National Party\u2019s point of view was that everyone should charge tenants a letting fee, and the Labour Party and the Green Party\u2014I am not speaking for it\u2014then said no one should charge letting fees to tenants. If a landlord wants to engage a property management agency or a letting agency to market a property, then the landlord should pay the cost of engaging that agency. The charge should not be put on to the tenant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003ESo there is an amendment in my name that would make this change and prohibit the charging of letting fees to tenants. I urge members to support it. I think it is only fair that this amendment be passed into law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe second amendment that I will talk about is one that started off in a member\u2019s bill in the name of my colleague Maryan Street. It is around the issue of joint and several liability when there is damage to a property. This issue arose out of a case in Dunedin where a student flat burnt down. One tenant was responsible for the action that caused that, but the other tenants were not. In fact, they were not there. They did not know anything about it, and they could not have stopped it because they knew nothing about it. But they were held liable. We have heard, I believe, that two of the tenants who had nothing to do with causing the fire, and who could not have stopped it even if they had wanted to, were bankrupted as a result of the insurance company going after them to get back the money that it had to pay out to the landlord to fix that property. That is a situation where clearly only the insurance company wins. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI want to be quite clear about this issue, because I know that there tends to be a bit of mischief about trying to misrepresent what Labour believes about it. Absolutely, a landlord should be able to recoup the cost of damages caused to a property, but Labour says we should make the person responsible for causing the damage the one who is targeted for recouping that money, rather than people who are not responsible for it. It may well be that the response that Labour put up is not the best way of doing it, and that the Government thinks there is another way of achieving that. If so, we would definitely be open to considering other options. But I do not think anyone thinks it is fair that an insurance company can get two bites of the cherry, by chasing after people who could not possibly have stopped an action from happening. We have ended up with young people at university being bankrupted as a result of the actions of that company. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThis is a serious issue. The Minister has known about this issue for a long time. In fact, when in Opposition he dealt with it as the spokesperson on housing when my colleague Maryan Street first brought her member\u2019s bill to the House. He has had more than 18 months to deal with it as the Minister. The select committee reported back on this bill many, many months ago; I think it was in September last year. He has known about the issue for a long time, and I hope that he will be able to stand up and tell us either why he will not be addressing it\u2014why he does not feel the situation needs to be addressed\u2014or, if he is prepared to address it, what he intends to do about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI will save my other amendments for further calls. Certainly, the issue of letting fees is critical, and I do not understand how the Government could possibly say it is unfair that the person who engages the letting company should pay for that, as opposed to the person who ends up renting the property, particularly in light of the Budget changes and the hardship that is being faced by many people. In fact, 30 percent of New Zealanders rent their properties and 50 percent of them have a combined household income\u2014not personal, but combined\u2014of under $50,000 a year. These people cannot easily absorb another couple of weeks\u2019 rent on top of everything else, and that is what makes the issue of letting fees even more critical than perhaps it was when the previous Labour Government put forward legislation to prohibit the charging of letting fees to tenants. It is an issue of fairness. I do not see the Government scrambling to make sure that in a tight housing market the real estate agents charge buyers and not vendors for marketing properties, so it is difficult to comprehend why the Government and the Minister of Housing feel it is necessary to whack another cost on to tenants, who in the current financial situation are already struggling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI have to say that issue was a big one at the select committee. It was an issue on which even those who thought that letting agents should be able to charge whomever they wanted acknowledged that charging tenants the letting fee caused hardship. There were people who acknowledged that it did keep people out of the housing market. We had a comment from one of the National members on the committee that those people could just go down the road and find somewhere else to rent. That comment worried me, because I think that sometimes National members do not understand that the lowest-paid New Zealanders do not have a lot of choice when it comes to these situations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2218b833d7246ba913f6fac02a41f50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2218b833d7246ba913f6fac02a41f50\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I take this call to clarify the purpose of the Government\u2019s two Supplementary Order Papers. The first proposes minor, technical amendments to improve and streamline the implementation of the bill. More specifically it separates certain intertwined provisions of the bill so that they may be brought into force, via separate commencement orders as envisaged by clause 2, to ensure that parties have sufficient time to prepare for their new rights and obligations. The bill provides for administrative and Tenancy Tribunal forms to be updated and approved by the chief executive of the Department of Building and Housing rather than by regulations. It updates the Tenancy Tribunal\u2019s jurisdiction to mirror the new process for dealing with abandoned goods, as proposed in clause 42. It removes the requirement, but retains the ability, to prescribe a fee for providing a debtor\u2019s address details to the District Court for enforcement purposes. It provides for the form of notices filed with the District Court\u2014for example, a notice of appeal\u2014to be governed, as is the case under other legislation, by generic court rules rather than separate regulations. Although the aforementioned changes are minor in nature, collectively they will aid clarity, reduce unnecessary regulation, and facilitate improvements to the administrative processes over time, in response to feedback from users.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThe second Supplementary Order Paper proposes minor, consequential amendments to the bill that reflect the recent enactment of the Unit Titles Act, which was passed, obviously, before this legislation. We would have had to make other changes, had the reverse been the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EBoth Supplementary Order Papers are consistent with the policy intent of the bill and the changes recommended by the Social Services Committee. I assure members that the Supplementary Order Papers I am tabling today are worthy of support. They have no policy impact, except to make the legislation more streamlined and understandable by those who use it. I urge members\u2019 support. I will be happy to respond to members\u2019 queries in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u002214494708331848159da8c58d007ea8eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214494708331848159da8c58d007ea8eb\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will make a contribution on the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill. Although I am not on the Social Services Committee and have not had the opportunity to hear what sounds like some very fine submissions on the bill, the issue of letting fees is an important one in every single community in our country, none more so than in the community of Hamilton. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EEven though we are in the Chamber debating, once again, legislation that started out as good, robust Labour Government legislation, it is legislation that, yet again, is being watered down by the Government. Even though we are debating such watered-down legislation, at least some progress is starting to be made on this issue, although Labour would like to see much more progress than is possible in the bill before us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EMy colleague Moana Mackey spoke in very fine detail about letting fees. This is a classic issue of trying to balance the difference between the haves and the have-nots. Generally, the people who are landlords have the financial capability and therefore the power in this relationship. They not only own their own home that they live in but also have enough financial assets to own other homes that other people can live in. They are the haves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThen we have the have-nots. They are the people who, for many, many reasons\u2014whether financial or a deliberate decision not to own property\u2014are not in a position of owning and holding property. Therefore, they heavily rely on some form of regulation to protect their interests. As we have heard, those protections are currently not strong enough. However, I would argue that the bill before us does not make them strong enough. It does make some improvements, and I acknowledge the Minister of Housing for his work on that, but we need to go an awful lot further. The Minister has picked up a previous Minister\u2019s work, and good on him for doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E I will dispel a myth in relation to what I will call the Rugby World Cup amendment so that people understand what I am talking about. Labour members are proposing giving tenants some certainty in the situation where a major event comes along and landlords see an opportunity to make a lot of money because accommodation needs will be very high in their city. I want to dispel the myth that this is an Auckland-only issue. We are talking about the Rugby World Cup, and the city I live in, Hamilton, will have exactly this issue, as well. On behalf of tenants in Hamilton, I support Labour\u2019s amendment to make sure there are some protections so that people cannot be thrown out of their accommodation in order to make space for landlords to bring in people who are prepared to pay more because of a lack of accommodation in our city. And it will not just be for the Hamilton-based games of the Rugby World Cup, because there is a very good proposal for Hamilton to have a passenger train service during the course of the Rugby World Cup.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdefa437490e48e0a4b9ea7e18eb016a\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Where to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dbf70d7486544ae8a8e077f38449391\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: From Hamilton to Auckland. People with foresight and vision can see why that would make a big difference. If that proposal goes ahead, Hamilton will take the overload from Auckland and lots of people will stay in Hamilton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EIt is my view that I do not want to see one family or one child put out of the place they call home because some landlord in Hamilton, Auckland, Christchurch, or wherever, wants to exploit their ability to make a bigger profit over the period of the Rugby World Cup, or any other event for that matter. I think it says a lot about our country if we are prepared in that circumstance to allow people with low incomes or people with children to be turfed out of their homes in order that their landlords can make a greater profit than they need to. They would be turfing people out who are paying enough rent to cover the landlords\u2019 costs, so the only reason that it would occur was that the landlords wanted to make a profit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2fa90ccc7aa40a7ab77a6b84c2af15e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2fa90ccc7aa40a7ab77a6b84c2af15e\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E On the matter of charging letting fees, I think the Committee should note that up until recently real estate agents had the exclusive right to charge letting fees. They lost that right. All the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill does is allow all agents, not only real estate agents but also other property managers, to charge letting fees. The ability for them to do it, as recommended by the majority of the Social Services Committee, will reduce the size of letting fees through increased competition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EIn fact, I think what will happen is we will find that a whole lot of agents will not charge letting fees at all, just as they have not charged them for decades. That is why we are levelling the playing field by allowing everyone to do it. If they do, that is up to them; they will have to provide the service that goes with it. If they do not, then they provide a point of difference, which, as I said, has been in existence for many decades now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002248fe4c4c58984761808f350dc862731a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248fe4c4c58984761808f350dc862731a\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E By way of introductory remarks, I agree with many of the principles behind the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill. It is a bill that the Labour Party is generally supportive of\u2014obviously, with our minority report in mind. I think all Kiwis should have some security in where they live. Kiwis are entitled to some certainty in their accommodation arrangements; they need to be able to put down roots. Their kids need to have stability in where they go to school. Where children live has a direct relationship on the stability of their lives, their schooling, their early childhood education, and so forth. Giving people, even those who cannot afford the homeownership dream, stability in their rental arrangements is really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EPeople have the right to live peacefully in their homes, even if they rent them, with relatively minimal disruption. They are also entitled to be treated with respect by their landlords. I have been very concerned in the last few days as the media coverage has reported the way some tenants of State houses are being treated in the neighbourhood of P\u014Dmare, which is in my electorate. I think that some of the issues those people are confronting have direct relevance to the debate on this bill. The suggestion is that the Government is not living up to its own expectations and the things it talks about in this bill when it comes to State house tenants, particularly those in P\u014Dmare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIn the neighbourhood of P\u014Dmare over 40 Housing New Zealand Corporation houses are empty. Over 30 of those houses have effectively been abandoned by the Housing New Zealand Corporation and it is not putting new tenants in them. To some extent, those houses are uninhabitable, as they have been badly run down. Unfortunately, by simply abandoning them the Minister of Housing has made the problem so much worse. He has basically abandoned that whole community. We now have whole rows of empty houses that are prone to vandalism, and to squatting, in some cases. Simply leaving those houses there and saying that it is an antisocial neighbourhood, which is what the Minister tried to argue this afternoon, makes the problem worse. A whole lot of empty houses in a neighbourhood make the problem worse. Who wants to go and live in a neighbourhood where a whole lot of houses immediately around them will be empty and subject to vandalism, squatting, and the various other things that go on? The Government is effectively creating a ghost town. The Government is exacerbating problems that may have existed before, and it is stereotyping an entire community based on the actions of a small number of people, who are being dealt with in other ways. I think it is absolutely shocking that the Government has all but turned its back on an entire community in my electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022394f9dd7fdb248a386bf469a66a63c11\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Punishing them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f6d4220f99c4526a00a1397c8c7f98d\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: It is punishing innocent people. Good families who are trying to do the best by their kids are being punished because the Government is on this grand crusade to persecute a small number of people. I think that that whole community deserves to be treated with a little bit more respect than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI extended an open invitation to the Minister yesterday, and I am happy to re-extend that invitation today. If he wants to come and meet the residents of P\u014Dmare, I would be happy to arrange that. I would happily go with him and show him around the neighbourhood. It is a community that I have spent quite a lot of time in. I have knocked on every single door in Farmer Crescent in that neighbourhood over the last few years. I know many of those residents very well and I am absolutely appalled at the stereotyping that the Minister has undertaken. For him to suggest that they are all antisocial, or members of gangs, or involved in criminal activity is absolutely disgusting. Those people deserve to be treated with some respect and they are not getting that respect from the Government. I think that is really disappointing when we consider some of the rhetoric that sits behind the bill we are debating at the moment. Clearly, it is rhetoric that the Government is not willing to live up to itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThese houses have been poorly maintained. Yes, they need redevelopment; there is no argument from me about that. As a matter of fact, they have been neglected over several decades. I do not think the blame rests with the previous Labour Government or with the National Government that preceded it. I think that generally speaking, that community has not had the level of investment in, and maintenance of, those State houses that it should have. I do not want to go back over a debate on who is responsible for that; I want to know what will happen now, who will deal with that situation, and who will give the residents of P\u014Dmare the type of neighbourhood they can be proud to live in. All we are seeing at the moment is the Government, far from dealing with the situation, turning its back on the problem and saying that the tenants are to blame for the situation they find themselves in. I simply do not think that is an acceptable argument for the Government to be putting forward. There is so much more that the Government could do in the area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWe cannot ignore the impact that tenancy arrangements made by the Housing New Zealand Corporation or others have on surrounding communities. For example, I have been a regular visitor to the primary school in P\u014Dmare, and having a whole lot of empty State houses in that neighbourhood has had a big impact on the school. It is struggling to cope with how to respond to that, quite understandably. Empty houses have impact not just on individual families; they have an impact on whole communities. I have been really concerned to see the stereotyping of that community that has gone on. I absolutely accept that some people in that community have behaved inappropriately. I do not want to go into that in great detail at the moment, but I absolutely object to the idea that an entire community should be punished because of the actions of a few.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWe heard the Minister say in the Chamber this afternoon that it is not the Housing New Zealand Corporation\u2019s policy to leave empty all of the State houses in an area where there have been some evictions, but that is exactly what is being done in P\u014Dmare. The question that Moana Mackey put to the Minister this afternoon, which he did not answer, was why P\u014Dmare is being treated differently from all of the other State housing neighbourhoods throughout the country. Why is P\u014Dmare being picked off and picked on by this Government? The residents of P\u014Dmare were told before the last election that if they had maintenance problems with their State housing, the National Government would address those. Phil Heatley went up and down the country and said that he was shocked by the state of State houses in New Zealand, and that he would do something about it. The residents of P\u014Dmare will be struggling to reconcile that with the fact that he has made massive cuts to the maintenance, acquisition, and redevelopment budgets of the Housing New Zealand Corporation in this year\u2019s Budget. They were looking forward to Phil Heatley making good on the promise he made them before the last election; a promise that he is now very keen to forget\u2014I guess along with all the other promises on the National Party pledge card on tax cuts and so on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI will talk a little bit more about some of the other provisions in the bill, but I restate the point\u2014I think we should not underestimate its impact\u2014that residents of rental properties, whether those properties are owned by the Housing New Zealand Corporation or otherwise, are entitled to be treated with respect by their landlords. I assert very strongly that the Government, as the landlord of the people in P\u014Dmare, is not treating those people with the respect they deserve. I think the Minister should do something about that. There are opportunities there. A redevelopment plan is on the books; he could put money into the redevelopment plan, and give those residents a neighbourhood that they can be truly proud of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWe have to deal with the reality that increasingly people are renting their homes rather than owning them. That is a problem. I am moving on now from the issue of P\u014Dmare to talk a little bit about some of the issues to do with why residential tenancies are becoming more and more important as more people find themselves tenants rather than homeowners. I did a little bit of research on this issue a few months ago, and discovered that purchasing a home prior to the Second World War was about the equivalent of 3\u00BD years of the average annual salary. After the war that figure went up a little bit, as members can imagine, because people were paying for the cost of a war, and the figure went up to about 5 years, then back down to about 3\u00BD years at the time the baby boomers were purchasing their homes. Now it costs about 10 years\u2019 of the average salary for people to purchase their own home, and that makes homeownership much more of a dream for so many families, and it makes tenancy arrangements so much more important. That is something this House needs to consider, and that is why some security in tenancy arrangements, ensuring that both landlord and tenant are in mutual relationships of respect, and making sure that those things are very clear in the law and that the law is up to date, are very, very important. Increasingly, New Zealanders will be finding themselves in rental accommodation because they cannot afford the homeownership dream.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI conclude my preliminary comments, and I look forward to the rest of the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u00227406cb59b78b4e9583c762fe466cea43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227406cb59b78b4e9583c762fe466cea43\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to have the opportunity to take a call in the Committee stage of the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill. First I say how pleased I am, along with my colleagues, that the bill is before the Committee, having been introduced by the previous Labour Government in the last Parliament in May 2008. We were very pleased about it being introduced then, and we looked forward to its speedy passage through the House, particularly with issues such as boarding houses being included in the new legislation. Unfortunately, people who rely on the provisions of the bill have had to wait a very long time. The Social Services Committee did great work and reported back in 2009, and here we are almost 2 years later finally getting to the remaining stages of this bill. It has been a long, long time coming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI am also disappointed at the potential lost opportunity this bill represents. My very good colleague Moana Mackey has put up some excellent amendments, and I hope the Minister of Housing will genuinely take them into account, because I think there are some very important issues in them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI had to wonder about the Minister having been so busy, swanning around Northcote. Today in question time he could not resist holding up the report by the North Shore Times\u2014that really good, left-wing local newspaper! Front page\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a7eef158c8f4fc9b86119c1098c23b8\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s it called? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c128c19e8e543ba83a7435cd6b077cd\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: The North Shore Times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203cdc1010ebf44beacbf17e691ae1f83\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: I notice you advertise in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ea8cc8c6efc469bb78b77c04f7ef0cb\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Every week it has a column from the member opposite, Dr Coleman, or his colleague. There is never anything from Labour in there, but the Minister of Housing was on the front page. He could not help but tell the House how the tenants had cheered. Does the Minister know why they cheered? It was because they had been worried about whether their community urban renewal project would continue, because it has been up in the air. I ask members to guess who started that community urban renewal project way back in the early 2000s. Labour set up that project and put forward the funding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc0a1860d4f04a13896a5e90643cd0e1\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: You actually were in Government then. You would expect you would have done something. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022021d1828b2a44ba193175dac4f066ae0\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Labour funded the Tonar Street project, I say to Dr Coleman. It was Labour that put the money forward to fund it, yet the Minister last week was taking credit for something that he had absolutely nothing to do with. It was a hilarious thing to see. I know those tenants quite well, and I know that they are Housing New Zealand Corporation tenants. They rely on legislation like this to have their issues heard. They come to see me in my office in Northcote, and I am sure they come to see the member opposite, Dr Coleman, as well. I am very, very pleased for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe other interesting thing about that little celebration the other day was that on that same day there was a report in the New Zealand Herald saying that the Tonar Street project was on hold because of issues to do with stormwater and so on. The Minister did not like that, because it kind of spoiled his big moment. In the report in the New Zealand Herald the journalist had gone to ask what was happening to the staff of the community urban renewal project. As of last week they did not know what their jobs would be and whether they would still be working in the Cadness Street properties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4fd776dd8674f4486ddae1e99f06607\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s because you keep on telling them they won\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed076abea87249928d0cec509da822e4\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: That is true, I say to Mr Coleman. I know those workers and I talk to them. Eighty percent of their jobs have changed from being community urban renewal project officers to being some sort of mortgage broker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIt said in the report that they had gone to the union to ask what was happening with the restructuring in Housing New Zealand Corporation. That is a fair thing to do; after all, the Public Service Association (PSA) represents those Housing New Zealand Corporation workers. The Minister could not help himself. In the presentation at Tonar Street he said that a union official had made some comments\u2014a union official\u2014and the Minister asked what a union official would know about stormwater. It was unbelievable. I suggest the Minister should talk to the PSA and get to know a few of those Housing New Zealand Corporation workers. They are very, very worried at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI particularly want to mention the amendment that my colleague Moana Mackey is putting forward about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224004d71e609c4d0e80ccc36b29b44c9f\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: You should stand for North Shore. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ca76872b60f45cc9bea5ea274560a9a\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I have not made up my mind yet, so I tell Mr Bridges not to worry about it. I will let him know when I have made my decision\u2014how is that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the representation of the Tenancy Tribunal, and my concerns about the changes that raise the monetary threshold of the automatic right to be represented by a lay representative or counsel from $3,000 to $6,000. The problem for the people of Northcote I have been talking about is that there is no way they can afford that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u002201ec2c8ef7e744a097b68e045a865ddc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201ec2c8ef7e744a097b68e045a865ddc\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Minister of Housing for his very brief comments on the issue of letting fees. As I said to him, Labour members were not arguing against the level playing field; we were asking why he was opposed to the person who engages the letting agency paying that fee as opposed to the tenant. I do not believe that he addressed that question, at all, and I would very much appreciate it if, in the interests of moving the Committee stage along, he would be prepared to address why he thinks it is unacceptable that the person who engages a business is the one who pays for it. I look forward to his answering that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI will pick up on my amendment that was alluded to by my colleague Sue Moroney. It is about what happens to tenants during major events. Over the time of the International Sevens held in Wellington earlier this year, boarding-house tenants in Wellington were evicted en masse. They were told that they had to leave their homes\u2014well, boarding houses are not really homes; their places of residence\u2014so that their rooms could be charged out to tourists here for the rugby. That move was to my knowledge unprecedented; it was unexpected. The police, hospitals, and emergency accommodation providers in Wellington were overwhelmed by the sudden outpouring of extremely vulnerable tenants on to the streets of Wellington. It raised a very, very serious issue. Because there is no such thing as a secure tenancy in New Zealand, that situation is possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI live in a very beautiful part of the country, which is incredibly popular over summer. I know people who are told every summer that they have to move out of their homes. For a couple of months they have to move out so that their landlords can rent the places out for three or four times the cost to people who come to the East Coast and Gisborne for their holidays. I think that is incredibly unfair, but I have tried to be extremely reasonable with the Government on this issue. I have not tried to cover off the holiday situation in my amendment; I have kept it to the schedule of major events. Let us keep focused on that for now, and let us say that it is illegal to evict tenants \u201Cfor the purpose of providing short term accommodation for a major event\u201D as listed in the Major Events Management Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThis is a serious issue. I have already been approached by tenants in Auckland who have been told by their landlords that they will have to move out over the time of the Rugby World Cup. And why would they not be told that? There is price-gouging going on in Auckland over the Rugby World Cup, with some hotels charging thousands and thousands of dollars a night\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c1b659d6c7746739aff9b125f4d8950\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: And locking their workers out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272c8e451cdf24ceb9a0db886c3dfe597\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and locking their workers out at the same time. They are trying to make sure that their workers cannot have any salary negotiations during the Rugby World Cup period, because God forbid that workers should be able to stand up for their rights and ruin a good time!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EComing back to my amendment, the fact is there are private sector tenants who have already been told that they will be issued with a 90-day notice to leave their homes\u2014their homes. They have children\u2014and I know that the Government is going to give schools a holiday over that time\u2014and they will have to move away from their communities. Those tenants will have to find somewhere to put all their furniture, and they will have to pay to move out and then move back in. They have been told that they can move back in at the end of the period, but when they have asked about their furniture and said that storing it was really expensive, the landlords have very helpfully said that they could leave it so that the people coming to stay over the time of the Rugby World Cup could use it, which solves the problem that a lot of those people will want to live in furnished homes. I have no problem with people who live in their own home letting it out\u2014of course not. A lot of them will get out of Auckland for the duration of the Rugby World Cup and they will charge people to stay in their homes. They will make a bit of money, and I say good luck to them. But when a landlord is evicting a family\u2014a family that the landlord has a tenancy agreement with\u2014purely to make money by providing accommodation for visitors over the time of the Rugby World Cup, I do not believe that that is something this House should be endorsing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI spoke to the Minister about it some months ago, and suggested that he get his officials to work on the matter so that he could rely on their wording, and not on wording that I had come up with. I asked the Minister in the select committee the other week whether he would support my amendment, but he has not told me yet. I sincerely hope the Government will support the amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe other thing is that boarding-house tenants and people living in short-stay motels have also been told that they have to get out for the duration of the Rugby World Cup. That provides two problems. There is the moral argument that it is just wrong to kick people out of their homes so that someone can make a huge packet of money by providing accommodation to tourists over the time of the Rugby World Cup. But the second problem is the question of where these people are going to go. When people are evicted en masse out of boarding houses and out of their short-stay accommodation, they will pour on to the streets of Auckland at a time when emergency accommodation providers will not be in a position to assist them. I think the Minister should grab the issue with two hands and say that, yes, the Government will deal with it. He should draw a line in the sand and say that this practice is not OK. I have not had any indication from the Minister about whether he will support my amendment, but I sincerely hope he will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI will go on to two other amendments in my name, which relate to representation at the Tenancy Tribunal. Labour has put forward two amendments on this matter, because there are two issues. The first is that currently when tenants go to the Tenancy Tribunal the monetary value of what is in question has to be at least $3,000 in order for them to be able to take a representative with them. Labour, under the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill that we put up, got rid of that provision altogether. We said that tenants were allowed to have representation at the Tenancy Tribunal. That was not something we did lightly, because the Tenancy Tribunal is intended to be an expeditious agency. It is intended to be low cost and it is intended to be fast. There is absolutely no question that once a whole lot of lawyers and everything else are added into the mix, things can become more protracted. But the Government is ignoring the reality that often the people the tenants are going up against are professionals. The people the tenants are going up against are tenancy managers, property managers, and the Housing New Zealand Corporation. I do not know on what planet it could be said that Housing New Zealand is not a professional advocate. We were told during the process that the Housing New Zealand Corporation could say that, yes, the tenant can have an advocate, as well. But that does not happen. Labour thinks it should be clear that a tenant has a right to representation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EWe are talking often about people who have English as a second language. We are talking sometimes about people who are illiterate and not able to read the documents in front of them. We are talking about people who are simply unfamiliar with a tribunal process such as that of the Tenancy Tribunal. We are talking about people who can be overwhelmed by it. We are talking sometimes about people who have mental health issues or drug and alcohol addiction issues. We are talking sometimes about people who are in extremely vulnerable situations, such as those who have escaped from domestic violence. Labour members think these people should be allowed to have representation at the Tenancy Tribunal. Indeed, it may actually speed up the process, because sometimes tenants do not know what their rights are, so they argue everything under the sun. Sometimes having an advocate there to focus them on their strongest argument, and telling them to forget about the rest because those issues are not covered by the law, can help the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003ESo I have two amendments in my name in relation to the Tenancy Tribunal. The first is to reduce the monetary threshold from $6,000\u2014the Government has lifted it from $3,000 to $6,000\u2014to $100. The more important one is to get rid of that threshold altogether and to not have a prohibition on representation at the Tenancy Tribunal. We have put forward two issues. If the Government says that, no, it does want all tenants to have representation, that is fine, but let us reduce the monetary threshold down to $100. I can tell the Committee that people who live in boarding houses do not have $6,000 worth of stuff. They do not. They might have $100 worth of stuff, or $200 worth, but they do not have even $3,000 worth, so their entire life\u2019s possessions could be being thrown out by a boarding-house landlord\u2014their entire life\u2019s goods. The fact that the worth of their entire life\u2019s goods amounts to only $250 means that, according to this Minister and this Government, they should not have representation to help them fight eviction, even though everything they own\u2014every single thing\u2014is at risk. To some members of this Committee $6,000 might not seem like a lot of money, but I can tell them that to boarding-house tenants it is far more money than they would ever hope to see or ever hope to own.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EA number of cases that have gone before the Tenancy Tribunal have been about mental health patients living in boarding houses ending up having to go into care for a number of days. When they come back they find out that their landlords have evicted them while they were away\u2014because boarding-house tenants currently have no protection under the residential tenancies laws, and we have been waiting a long time for them to get coverage\u2014and all their stuff has been chucked away. They want to go to the Tenancy Tribunal, but their stuff is not worth enough to trigger their being able to take some help to the tribunal. Well, I do not think that is fair, and I do not think that most members of this Committee would think it was fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI urge the Government to support those two amendments. I urge the Minister to stand and take a call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u0022d234b7b626824f1eab7104603b1fd8fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d234b7b626824f1eab7104603b1fd8fb\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to respond to the member in respect of the amendments she has put forward. They have been presented with some thought and consideration, and they are genuine amendments. I certainly acknowledge that. I will start with the last one, which is the issue about tenants having advocates before the Tenancy Tribunal. It might be worth informing the Committee and those listening and the member that I can give six ways in which tenants can get an advocate, who may or may not be legal counsel, to assist them at the Tenancy Tribunal so that they are in no way disadvantaged. The first way they can have an advocate is if they ask the other party, the landlord, for consent. If a landlord consents to the tenant having an advocate, then the tenant can have an advocate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThere is another way, and that is if the dispute exceeds the sum under this new legislation, which is $6,000. So if we are talking about $6,000 or more being in dispute, then the tenant can certainly have an advocate and in fact can have legal counsel. If the landlord is represented by an advocate or by legal counsel, then that is the third way that a tenant can be represented by an advocate or legal counsel. Fourthly, if the nature of the issue at stake is quite complex, then the Tenancy Tribunal can allow the tenant to have an advocate and perhaps be represented by counsel. So if it is a complex issue the tenant can certainly have an advocate. If there is significant disparity between the two parties, the tenant can have an advocate. If there is a large disparity between the tenant\u2019s knowledge and ability to defend him or herself ,and the landlord\u2019s knowledge and ability, then the tenant most certainly can have an advocate. We talk about this as a sort of David and Goliath situation. If a tenant is indeed vulnerable and in a \u201CDavid\u201D situation, he or she can have an advocate. If the person is a minor or has a disability, then absolutely he or she can be represented by someone approved by the Tenancy Tribunal. A person who is young or who has a disability can have a representative appointed to help him or her. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThe last way is that the tribunal itself can rule in favour of the tenant having an advocate. It can do so for a reason other than the David and Goliath situation, or the complexity of the issue, or when the other party has legal advocacy, or whatever the other reasons are, and it can do so even if none of those reasons is fulfilled. So there is no shortage of avenues for a tenant to have an advocate, and that is why we do not believe it is worthwhile supporting the amendment that the member Moana Mackey has put forward, although I acknowledge that it is a serious issue and I appreciate the fact that she did bring it forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThe other issue she talked about was the issue of tenant liability for damage. Labour would like to reduce the liability for damage accidentally caused by a tenant or by a tenant\u2019s guest to the value of 4 weeks\u2019 rent. We are opposing this Supplementary Order Paper as well, because limiting the liability for damage would impose unfair costs on the landlord, who did not cause the damage, was not the one who allowed the tenant\u2019s guest into the house, and was not there when the tenant accidentally caused the damage. Why would a landlord, the owner of the property, get stuck with the fix-up bill for damage caused by a tenant or a tenant\u2019s guest? National believes in personal responsibility, and we believe that it is important that tenants meet their obligations in this regard. In the same way, we expect\u2014and this legislation makes sure of it\u2014that landlords who are obliged to fix properties and keep them in a decent state of repair should do so as soon as possible. That, of course, as one of the previous speakers said, is one of my challenges and one of Housing New Zealand Corporation\u2019s challenges in P\u014Dmare in the Hutt Valley. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThere is also the issue over the Rugby World Cup. Moana Mackey is rightly concerned about the people who, during the Sevens competition, were asked by the owners of the property to vacate so that they could have in residence visitors from overseas and within New Zealand who could pay quite high fees for accommodation in Wellington. Moana Mackey is concerned that that might happen with other national sporting events, particularly the Rugby World Cup. My challenge to the Labour Party and the member if they are concerned about that is to vote for this legislation, because the reason why landlords were previously able to do that in Wellington is that they had to give only 24 hours\u2019 notice for someone to move out. This legislation, which, hopefully, Labour will support, means that they will have to give 28 days\u2019 notice before someone leaves the accommodation. Boarding-house operators will be very reluctant to ask someone to leave 28 days in advance of a sporting event, because they may very well get 27 days of no rent. So we think it is important to support this legislation to fix that problem of people being asked at short notice to leave in order that overseas tourists can take up their positions in that accommodation and pay a much higher rent. This legislation requires boarding-house operators to give 28 days\u2019 notice, not 24 hours\u2019 notice. Had that provision been in place when the Wellington Sevens event was on, I do not think we would have seen as many people asked to leave the premises they were living in in order to make room for those travelling, with deep pockets, from overseas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002285cb50629d9a4be9a035c539940ee486\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285cb50629d9a4be9a035c539940ee486\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call Moana Mackey, I just ask that the level of discussion around the Chamber be lowered. It is very difficult to hear what speakers are saying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u002281f49e0d09a5499ead0ad0a087315c4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281f49e0d09a5499ead0ad0a087315c4b\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Minister of Housing for his comprehensive response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI will take a final call in respect of my last amendment, which is to clause 9. The Minister and I will never see eye to eye on these issues. On the issue of the Tenancy Tribunal, I say to the Minister that it is not happening. If he talks to any of the advocates who are out there, they will tell him that it is not happening. I think it would be far cleaner for the Tenancy Tribunal to say that a tenant can have an advocate. The Tenancy Tribunal has powers to exclude people who are problematic; if someone is vexatious and deliberately dragging the matter out, the tribunal can deal with that. I think that is far easier than having a convoluted list of A, B, C, D, E, F, and G things saying that someone can have an advocate, when we know from the experience of tenants that it is not happening. I think my amendment is a really clean and simple way of dealing with it, and I do not think it will cause the problems that the Minister has outlined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to the Rugby World Cup issue, I say that, yes, of course, boarding-house tenants will have more protection under the law. But all it means is that a landlord has to give his or her tenants more notice that he will evict them; it does not mean that he cannot evict them. It means that instead of being able to give 24 hours\u2019 notice that a tenant has to get out, a landlord now has to give 28 days\u2019 or 90 days\u2019 notice\u2014it is just notice. The Minister did not address my question about tenants already being told that they are going to be given 90 days\u2019 notice. We have had plenty of warning that the Rugby World Cup is coming; it is not something that suddenly jumps up overnight, with landlords thinking \u201COh, here we go.\u201D So I do not think the Minister addressed either of those questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EMy final amendment is on cleansing orders. The Social Services Committee actually removed the requirement\u2014and Labour voted in favour of this, because we thought it seemed sensible, given the arguments we had heard\u2014for a tenant to be told that a cleansing order had been put on a property. We had heard a lot of argument about why it was ridiculous, why it would be unfair to landlords if something had been cleaned up and the property was all hunky-dory and fine, why should we worry tenants\u2014yada, yada, yada. At the time, that kind of made sense, and I think the select committee was under quite a lot of pressure to report back; we did not have time to investigate as much as we should have done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003ESince then I have been contacted by a number of people who work in this area who are really, really concerned that the select committee took it out, and I think it raises enough concern that the Committee of the whole House should put it back in. I have been told that there are not consistent standards. What we are talking about here, largely, is methamphetamine labs. That is what this measure was trying to address. These labs leave residue that is dangerous, and, yes, we should deal with that. The argument we heard was that the cleansing orders was put on the land information memorandum report. Well, tenants do not have enough money to pay for a land information memorandum report in order to see whether there has been a cleansing order. Who will pay up to $300 or $400 on the off chance that there might have been a cleansing order on his or her property for a methamphetamine lab? Tenants simply cannot afford to do that, they are not going to, and they should not be required to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI have discussed this with the Property Investors Federation. Obviously, it would rather that this provision was not in there, but I have put a 5-year limit on. The federation said that it would be happier with this provision if it had a 5-year limit. So for the 5 years following a cleansing order, during that time, a tenant would need to be notified that there was a cleansing order on that property, and be shown documentation that it had been cleaned up. I think the protection of tenants should be paramount. I think the chemicals we are dealing with here are very dangerous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI do not think the select committee made this decision with all of the information before it. Yes, it is a requirement under law for a cleansing order to be placed on the land information memorandum. I have been told by councils that that practice is not uniform. Some councils take it off the land information memorandum once the cleansing order has been approved; some leave it on. It is not policed. Some councils do not know when a methamphetamine lab has been found, so they do not know that the cleansing order is meant to be on the land information memorandum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister that I think there are too many questions in this area. I think the clause the Minister himself drafted and put into the legislation should be put back in, until we are certain that this provision is an undue burden.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EAs I have said, I have spoken to the Property Investors Federation. It has said that a 5-year time limit would make it far more comfortable with this provision. I welcome any short comments that the Minister has on this. I really hope that this is the one amendment that we can get some agreement on. Again, I say that on all my other amendments he has not really answered my questions, which suggests to me that he does not have an answer to my questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u00226832fa0e787e4f4fa20a6b2e48673710\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226832fa0e787e4f4fa20a6b2e48673710\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I will again respond to Moana Mackey\u2019s amendment to clause 9, because it concerns a serious issue, and she is taking it seriously. She is not trifling with the Committee, at all. Methamphetamine manufacture within some properties, including rental properties, is a problem. It is something that the Minister of Police is certainly getting on top of, but it does happen from time to time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EIt is worth explaining to the Committee what the process is when a meth lab is discovered in a property. The manufacture of methamphetamine is illegal, so if anyone is caught manufacturing methamphetamine, two things have to happen: firstly, that person is busted by the police; secondly, the police inform the local district council, which has to\u2014having been informed, and the police have to inform the district council\u2014issue a cleansing order. The council documents that a cleansing order has been placed over the property. So after a methamphetamine lab is found in a property, the police have to go to the council. The council then registers a cleansing order against the property. Once there is a cleansing order, the cleansing order goes to the owner of the property. The owner, in this case a landlord, has to have the property decontaminated to a particular standard\u2014in other words, the property is clean to a standard that people can live in it. So there is a process for when methamphetamine labs are discovered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E In some cases, a property cannot be cleaned, and it needs to be destroyed. We have seen that happen a few times, and in fact we have seen it happen to State houses a couple of times. I think it may have even been in Chris Tremain\u2019s electorate of Napier. The problem of compulsory disclosure, of a landlord having to disclose to a tenant that the house had previously been used for methamphetamine manufacture, may very well drive landlords and owners of properties not to declare to the police or the local council that they have been used as a meth lab. We prefer that the processes in place incentivise the clean-up of properties used for methamphetamine production. We must incentivise that clean-up, or otherwise the destruction, of that home. The only way to do that is to have an easy process, which we have: on discovery of a meth lab, the police find out about it; then the police take action through the courts against the perpetrator, the police inform the district council, the council issue a cleansing order, and the property is cleansed to a very high standard or is otherwise destroyed. That is why we will not support Moana Mackey\u2019s amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EI also note for members that renting out contaminated premises is a breach of the Residential Tenancies Act, and the Tenancy Tribunal can terminate the tenancy and award punitive damages to tenants, should they be put in unhealthy and unsafe contaminated conditions. So there is a belt and braces approach to this problem. We want to incentivise the reporting of discovery of methamphetamine or other drug manufacturing labs. We do not want to disincentivise reporting of methamphetamine or other drug manufacturing labs within the rental community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Moana Mackey to clause 9 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003Eto insert the following subclause after subclause (1):\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E(1AA)\tSection 13A(1) is amended by inserting the following paragraph after paragraph (n):\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u201C(na)\twhether an owner or occupier of the premises has been ordered or required under this Act or any other enactment (including, but not restricted to, section 41 or 82 of the Health Act 1956 or section 124(10)(c) of the Building Act 2004) in the last 5 years to cleanse the premises and, if that is the case, the nature and date of the order or requirement and the steps, if any, that have been taken to comply with the order or requirement; and\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227913c14aeb714b97915118cbea5926ed\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 40; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000716\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Moana Mackey to clause 13A be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000717\u0022\u003Eto omit this clause and substitute the following clause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000718\u0022\u003E13A\tRequiring key money prohibited\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000719\u0022\u003ESection 17(4) is amended by omitting paragraph (c) and substituting the following paragraph:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000720\u0022\u003E\u201C(c)\tany sum required to be paid by the tenant to or at the direction of the landlord in respect of any fee or other charge for services rendered by any solicitor or letting agent relating to the grant or assignment of the tenancy is prohibited:\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e90d536116004008a69a0d5b8b4db3f4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 40; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000721\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Moana Mackey be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000722\u0022\u003Eto insert the following clause after clause 31:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000723\u0022\u003E31A\tNew section 51A inserted\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000724\u0022\u003EThe following section is inserted after section 31:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000725\u0022\u003E\u201C51A\tTermination of tenancy for provision of short-term accommodation for major event not allowed\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000726\u0022\u003E\u201C(1)\tIt shall not be acceptable for a tenancy, boarding house or other, to be terminated for the purpose of providing short term accommodation for a major event as defined under section 7 of the Major Events Management Act 2007.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000727\u0022\u003E\u201C(2)\tA tenant who had their tenancy terminated may apply to the Tenancy Tribunal for a finding that it was terminated for the purpose outlined in subsection (1).\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000728\u0022\u003E\u201C(3)\tWhere the Tenancy Tribunal finds that a landlord is found to have terminated a tenancy for the purpose outlined in subsection (1), the landlord will be subject to a penalty to the value of the daily rent of that property charged under the tenancy agreement, for each day it was rented out for the major event.\u201D\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220d2f3bf67961440c9b261b38f7353f69\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 40; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000729\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Moana Mackey to clause 38 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000730\u0022\u003Eto add the following subclause after subclause (1):\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000731\u0022\u003E(2)\tSection 59 is amended by adding the following subsection:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000732\u0022\u003E\u201C(5)\tThe tenant liability for damage to their rental premises is limited to 4 weeks\u2019 rent if the Tenancy Tribunal is satisfied the tenant neither caused the damage intentionally or recklessly, nor intentionally or recklessly encouraged or permitted another person to damage the premises.\u201D\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002279c54d3cfb164bd7af02751a4a102e2e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 40; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000733\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Moana Mackey to clause 63 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000734\u0022\u003Eto omit \u201C$6,000\u201D and substitute \u201C$100\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d7a8fe0548934688a0b29ec625434207\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 40; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000735\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Moana Mackey to clause 63 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000736\u0022\u003Eto add the following subclause after subclause (1):\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000737\u0022\u003E(2)\tSection 93 is amended by repealing subsection (7).\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ffe08f0852fd491fb7d6de5429fa1d64\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 40; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000738\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 110 in the name of the Hon Maurice Williamson and Supplementary Order Paper 120 in the name of the Hon Phil Heatley be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000739\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000740\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2, schedule, and clauses 1 to 3, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000741\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000742\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022efa48be7dd2349f8bc05a8989235fac7\u0022\u003EResidential Tenancies Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228c379635b0ae458e91df783963ef11d5\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u0022903f8f94c8c94d2fb0455f44ab01edf6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022903f8f94c8c94d2fb0455f44ab01edf6\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill be now read a third time. This bill amends the Residential Tenancies Act 1986. I introduced this bill to the House on 13 May 2009, and I am pleased to begin the bill\u2019s final process for passage through the House. Keeping the Kiwi dream of homeownership within reach is a key focus for this Government, as many will know. That is why we are working so hard to make housing more affordable by freeing up the supply of land and reducing the red tape that has been strangling the building and construction sector. I acknowledge my colleagues the Hon Maurice Williamson and the Hon Dr Nick Smith, who are working hard on the Resource Management Act and the Building Act in order to streamline them to make sure that red tape is indeed slashed. We are also easing the burden of interest rates by growing the economy. We do not want to see interest rates go to 8, 9, or 10 percent, like they were under the previous Government. We want people to be able to afford a mortgage. We are eliminating low-quality spending and are progressing a programme of personal tax cuts, so people can better afford a mortgage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThe reality is there will always be those who, for either lifestyle or affordability reasons, want or need to rent a place to live. Since the vast majority of families rent privately, it is important to ensure that the legislation governing the sector supports adequate private-sector provision of decent rental housing. That is why this bill is all about balance. It will enable the thousands of mum and dad landlords throughout the country to manage their tenancies and protect their investments, while ensuring that people who rent their homes have access to stable, good quality housing and the protections we would expect they would be afforded. The bill extends coverage of the Act to more people involved in renting, including the most vulnerable tenants in New Zealand: those living in boarding houses. Up until now people living in boarding houses did not have significant protections, but protections will be there now. For example, there is the provision that I spoke about during the Committee stage where boarding-house operators will now need to give 28 days\u2019 notice for someone to move on, instead of just 24 hours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EWe will clarify the responsibilities for outgoings such as water rates by introducing overarching principles to indicate where landlords or tenants are responsible for charges. We will introduce clear and fairer processes for terminating and renewing tenancies to provide an appropriate balance between flexibility and certainty of tenure, and encourage landlords and tenants to comply with their obligations; for example, by enabling the Tenancy Tribunal to award financial penalties against landlords who do not live up to their side of the bargain, and by improving the enforceability of Tenancy Tribunal orders. Just as important as what the bill amends are those features of the Act that have served us well over the years that the bill retains. When things go wrong, it is important that both landlords and tenants can access quick, low-cost, and impartial dispute-resolution services. That is why this Government is very reluctant to open up the Tenancy Tribunal so freely to lawyers, as the Labour Party suggests we should. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThe dispute resolution process under this Act is an extremely exemplary example of how this can be achieved. As I said, if there is a David and Goliath situation\u2014if the tenant is a minor, if the tenant has a disability, if we are talking about large sums of money over $6,000 or a situation where a landlord has a lawyer or an advocate\u2014in all those cases a tenant can access advocacy, and, in many cases, legal counsel. Tenancy adjudicators have specialist knowledge of the Act and are empowered to take an inquisitorial approach to resolving disputes. It is quite different from the courts system and it is another reason why we do not need lawyers to freely enter the dispute resolution process when it comes to the Tenancy Tribunal. Landlords and tenants are encouraged to represent themselves at hearings, with the use of solicitors and representatives limited to only, as I said, where the nature of disputes brings particular disparity between the parties. This means the process is quick, cost-effective, and, most important, very, very fair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EDuring the consideration of the bill the Social Services Committee heard from a wide range of submitters with a diverse range of backgrounds and perspectives. That is testament to the fact that our tenancy laws affect people from all walks of life and political persuasions. Tenancy laws will always contain contentious elements, as strengthening the rights of one party almost inevitably means reducing the rights of another. This legislation seeks to balance out things more perfectly than has been the case in the past. I acknowledge the difficult and important role that the Social Services Committee has played in ensuring that those competing interests were properly considered and appropriately balanced in the bill. I acknowledge the work undertaken by the previous Government in terms of what we are proposing to pass here today. I also acknowledge the work of the Opposition in investigating and putting forward Supplementary Order Papers or amendments that were substantial and thought out, and attempted to address issues that are real. There was no trifling with the House; the amendments put forward were worthy of consideration. Obviously we chose to vote against them for good reasons of our own, but we appreciate the debate. I thank the select committee staff, Department of Building and Housing officials, and the Parliamentary Counsel Office drafters who worked on the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EMost important, I thank the hundreds of landlords, tenants, and others with an interest in tenancy matters who participated in the review of the Act. By sharing their experiences, they helped shape a better bill. The reform of the Act, which directly affects the lives of around one-third of New Zealand households, has been a long time coming and I acknowledge that. It is with pleasure and satisfaction that I am able to oversee its final progress through the House. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8234c5cf47446738f2ccb23884177f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8234c5cf47446738f2ccb23884177f0\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is extremely pleasing to speak on the third reading of the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill, which has been a long time coming. I am sure all members of the House will be pleased when this legislation is finally passed into law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Housing said in his third reading speech that this law is all about balance, and he is absolutely right. But with the greatest of respect, I say that I do not believe he has that balance quite right. There is absolutely no doubt that the law we are passing in this House today\u2014or whenever it finally ends up being passed\u2014is far better than the status quo, and Labour will be supporting it for that reason. But the Minister had the opportunity to make the lives of the hundreds of thousands of tenants in New Zealand a lot easier by inserting a few simple amendments, and I am very disappointed that he chose not to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EPeople who rent their properties do not have security of tenancy. It is not like people owning their own home, where they know that they are in it and no one can make them leave it with 90 days\u2019 notice. They face enormous pressures; rents are going up. I had a letter from a Housing New Zealand Corporation tenant today. Someone on the minimum wage under National\u2019s tax cuts will get $3 extra a week. Members should guess how much this tenant\u2019s Housing New Zealand Corporation rent is going up. It is going up $3 a week, and that is not even including inflation. When we factor in inflation, she is far, far worse off. Even if we pretend that inflation and the GST increase do not exist, her tax cut of $3 has already been swallowed up by a $3 increase in her Housing New Zealand Corporation rent. She is worried. It may seem like a small amount of money, but that is what we are talking about with the 30 percent of New Zealanders who rent, the majority of whom have a combined household income of less than $50,000. The Government should be protecting these people, not taking protections away from them, as that Minister did when he amended the legislation that Labour put in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe Minister mentioned boarding-house tenants, and he is quite right when he says that it is incredibly important that they come under the protection of residential tenancy law. But I say to the Minister that the job is not done. It is all very well to say that they now they have the protection that someone can evict them only with 28 days\u2019 notice instead of 24 hours\u2019 notice. But those boarding houses are filthy, and disgusting in many cases. I spoke to one of the councils here in Wellington, and I was told that prior to the 1991 changes to the Building Act, which the previous National Government put through, councils were responsible for boarding houses. They had to know where they were. They could go in and check them as multi-residential dwellings. They had to make sure that they were in a state fit to be lived in. That responsibility was taken away from councils with those 1991 changes. The Minister may not know that; I did not know that until the council told me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe fact is that a lot of councils do not know where these boarding houses are. They are disgusting, and a number of them do not even have running water. Unless someone points it out to the council, something may never be done. The tenants will not do it, because they are usually vulnerable people who do not know that they can just go to the council if they do not have running water. The Wellington Central MP, Grant Robertson, pointed it out to the council. The council thanked Mr Robertson and said that now it knows it is there, it is going to go in and make sure it is fixed, given its limited public health role, and keep an eye on it. But it should not have to be like that. It should not be that some of our most vulnerable citizens rely on the Coalition to End Homelessness taking MPs around to show them the parlous state of boarding houses for action to be taken. The journey for reform in the area of boarding houses has only just begun, and Labour will be more than happy to assist the Minister on that particular journey. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI come to the amendments that were unfortunately voted down in the Committee stage. When we talked about boarding-house tenants, the Minister alluded to the fact that over the Sevens in Wellington boarding-house tenants were evicted en masse. I put up an amendment in the Committee stage that would have made that illegal and said that for a major event like the Rugby World Cup, it is not OK to evict boarding-house tenants\u2014or, indeed, any other family\u2014from their home for the purpose of making a quick buck. The Minister chose not to deal with this serious issue. He does not think it is serious enough; he thinks it is OK that someone can be given a 90-day notice. The point is that although boarding-house tenants will have to be given 28 days\u2019 notice of eviction, landlords have had more than 28 days\u2019 notice of the Rugby World Cup. They have told their boarding-house tenants already that they will have to get out over the Rugby World Cup. Private sector rental tenants have been told that they will be issued a 90-day notice and will have to get out over the Rugby World Cup. I am shocked that the Minister of Housing thinks that is OK and should be allowed to happen. I am very, very disappointed in him in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to the issue of letting fees, it is hard enough for tenants to get into housing nowadays, without the Government putting more and more hurdles in front of them. Labour thinks it is only fair that if landlords want to hire a property management organisation to market their properties, they pay for it\u2014not the tenants. Apparently the National Government does not think that that is the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to the Tenancy Tribunal, I acknowledge that in all those situations theoretically one can get representation, but I say to the Minister to go and talk to the tenancy advocacy groups, which will tell him that it is not happening. People are being denied representation in the Tenancy Tribunal. It seems simple to say that across the board tenants can have representation, because we know that in many cases it expedites the process. It stops tenants from being vexatious when they feel they are not getting their own way, or when they start to panic that they do not know the points of law and do not necessarily know their rights. But more than that, the Tenancy Tribunal has the power to remove people who are being vexatious. So if the Minister is worried that a tenant advocate will go in and start to try to drag out the process or slow it down, the Tenancy Tribunal\u2014and he did not mention that it has this power, because it did not suit his argument\u2014is able to remove tenants if it feels that they are not conducive to the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EAs he says, and I completely agree, this process is meant to be fast and cheap. In fact, the situation the Minister outlined, where tenants have all these rights to representation, sounds good. But I say to the Minister that it is not happening. Very, very vulnerable people are being denied representation at the Tenancy Tribunal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022344e77d365764d9eae7d66d29c650b70\u0022\u003EDr Rajen Prasad\u003C/span\u003E: Does he care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edf0ce067c67443aad50f5969dbc16fa\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: I hope he cares. I hope this is not just an exercise in saving face and not wanting to vote for a Labour Party amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EOn the issue of the level of the threshold, I say that $6,000 is a lot of money to a boarding-house tenant. To say that a tenant has to be able to meet the threshold of the monetary claim being worth $6,000 or more is ridiculous. They will never get there. That is la-la land stuff for some of the most vulnerable tenants that we are talking about. So it is extremely disappointing that the Government is lifting the threshold from the current level of $3,000 to $6,000. It is even more disappointing that it is not prepared to remove that threshold altogether and make sure that the Tenancy Tribunal is a fair forum for everyone, including those who are not familiar with that process or not able to adequately represent themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to the issue of cleansing orders, the most astonishing thing was that I was arguing to put back in a clause that the Minister himself put in the original bill. This was Minister Heatley\u2019s clause in the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill. I have never heard such an eloquent destruction by a Minister of his or her own clause before. He got up as though he had never seen it before and failed to mention that he put that clause into the legislation. At some point in history, Minister Heatley thought that it was important that tenants be told about methamphetamine labs and whether cleansing orders had been put on properties. I do not know who got to him in the meantime. The Social Services Committee made a decision that we would take the clause out; it was a rushed decision because the select committee was rushed. Subsequent to that decision I have seen overwhelming evidence that it is not as clear-cut as the Minister made out. The practices across councils are not uniform, and they are not policed. They are not at the level that the Minister seems to think that they are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe Minister also failed to address how a tenant will afford $300 for a land information memorandum in order to find out whether there is a cleansing order that they have no idea is there. On a whim, tenants\u2014who have also had to pay a letting fee, because the Minister thinks that they should have to; who have also had to pay a bond; and who have also had to move all their stuff\u2014will now have to go to the council because they are worried the property might have been a methamphetamine lab. They have to be prepared to chuck down $300 on the off chance that there was a cleansing order on the property for a methamphetamine lab. All we said was that the tenant has to be told that this happened and be shown that it has been cleaned up. More than that, I improved the Minster\u2019s clause. I spoke to the property investors and asked them how they felt about this. They said that they would rather we stuck with what the select committee did. But at the select committee we said that a 5-year time limit would be fine. We did not think that people should have to be told for ever; we thought that 5 years would be a fair time limit. If there was a cleansing order in the last 5 years, tenants would have to be told. It saves everyone money. It means a tenant does not have to fork out hundreds of dollars for a land information memorandum that they might not even need. Let us be honest: in this tight housing market where it is really hard to get a property, when tenants finally find a place they can afford, how many will want to wait however many days it takes to get a land information memorandum and then find the money to pay for it? It is astonishing that the Minister voted against his own original contribution to this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThis is very good legislation, overall. It is not as good as the one we put up; it is a shame that the Government watered it down. This is a missed opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc9973943a014ad8882681e5d06db67a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc9973943a014ad8882681e5d06db67a\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That this debate be now adjourned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.30 p.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2010062264cb30b9cbdd49d991bb8b499ff63b09000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"