"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002210579a7c1e904febacb874561d5f13a3\u0022\u003ETuesday, 24 August 2010\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ffcb56ee922742dba33e527aa3efc3f4\u0022\u003ETuesday, 24 August 2010\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220e322ee5062a46f1bbede3414fb9de91\u0022\u003EVoting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f44fc1287794e429fd2fb2c106e6f48\u0022\u003ECorrections\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00225820881886444ec1b116599b46a5c0d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225820881886444ec1b116599b46a5c0d3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Honourable members, the result of the vote on the question for the first reading of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) was incorrectly announced as Ayes 64, Noes 57. The correct result is Ayes 64 and Noes 56. Further, the result of the vote on the motion to refer the Taxation (GST and Remedial Matters) Bill to the Finance and Expenditure Committee was also incorrectly announced as Ayes 69 and Noes 52. The correct result is Ayes 68 and Noes 52. The record will be corrected in both cases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022792f01d34e0043019d3b16d3288ad0c9\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d17c60509e34cd9a6d94bcb2f220e4b\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022836ecc5c14e047a4bd7cb24d592f75e6\u0022\u003ESavings\u2014Appointment of Savings Working Group\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u00223ee5b283b9fc4a4bbcbfbec263e68c68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ee5b283b9fc4a4bbcbfbec263e68c68\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What steps is the Government taking to consider options for improving New Zealand\u2019s national savings? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002203e5e902d57a424dbc3a7cc8c133d15a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203e5e902d57a424dbc3a7cc8c133d15a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f37298da6ed445bb9f747813e808adf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the Minister. We are not going to start the week that way. The Minister had not even started his answer before there was a barrage of interjection from, on this occasion, the Labour front bench. That is not in order. Interjections should relate to what a person says, and should not be just a widespread volley like that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f6c32df5df34d699dc06179dab4c44d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224563b4c83ea46d98d32b2a9af2b064b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot imagine what the point of order is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255025c8709b24de8aa2a722480a1f521\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: The point of order goes to whether, in fact, this question should have been accepted, given that it contains irony.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a641c28de01e4eae833ff828a549f759\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think that the Hon Trevor Mallard has any questions on the Order Paper today, but even so that kind of abuse of the point of order process will not be tolerated. I guess it might have had an element of humour to it, which assisted on this occasion, but I do not accept that kind of point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cac894be5e47487c9332a89671188d50\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: A focus on national savings is the next step in the Government\u2019s programme for rebalancing the economy towards savings, investments, jobs, and strong economic growth. Today the Government has announced the appointment of an independent Savings Working Group with wide terms of reference. This group will focus particularly on lifting the level of national savings, not just household savings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022849e0705679b45d182aa0395dbf37a90\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it important that New Zealand increase its national savings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022402080ed5c944670828ac66b2ac6e106\u0022\u003ESandra Goudie\u003C/span\u003E: Listen up, Labour, you will learn something.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210a485069b2346869c3ba6dba3729769\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Improving national savings is so important because of the damage that the previous Government did to it\u2014and it should listen. New Zealand has run current account deficits for a very long time and the difference between investment and our savings has been funded by offshore borrowing. That offshore borrowing was $100 billion in 2000, it reached $170 billion this year, and it is forecast to rise to almost $250 billion by 2014. If we can lift national savings we will not be as vulnerable to overseas lenders as we unfortunately are after 9 years of economic mismanagement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a323aed849c4ebaa328fe6e66e0362d\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: What did less damage to New Zealand\u2019s saving rate: cutting contributions to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, cutting KiwiSaver incentives, or borrowing more for tax cuts for wealthy New Zealanders like Ministers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9753a425fe94b90bee9c207d289e4c9\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: What did a lot of damage to our national savings and our external deficit was the previous Government. In the 4 years to 2008 New Zealand\u2019s balance of payments deficit averaged\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e21785e81fa54e09986a27d095a57174\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My colleague\u2019s question is about 2010. It is about today and the future; it is not about the past. That answer was not about the Minister\u2019s responsibility. The member put to the Minister three different policy options of the current Government and asked the Minister to give an answer based on the current Government\u2019s policies. Instead we get speeches about what previous Governments have done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233d16022683b4f77a2abce3918830e0f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s embarrassed about the record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f10381f7daf4e039b70328a863c587a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Now it is the Hon Dr Nick Smith. It is fortunate that I am in good humour today, because a point of order is being heard and he should not be interjecting. I say to the Hon Darren Hughes that the question asked, from memory, what, out of a list of things, had caused the least damage. It was seeking the Minister\u2019s opinion. It seems that the Minister did not agree with any of that list and added to the list himself as to what was causing damage. When questions seek opinions there is no precise answer. Members may not like the answers but the remedy is in members\u2019 hands\u2014they should ask tough questions and not just seek opinions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4dce841896e4020976b4593e428b92a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: What damaged national savings were the policies of the previous Government. Those policies led to a blowout in Government spending, a blowout in consumer borrowing, and the worst record on balance of payments for decades. The balance of payments deficit averaged over 8 percent of GDP from 2004 to 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e114425156f841d8871440e3f8f56227\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: What particular issues will the Savings Working Group consider?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290b4b1edf30d478fb93e95f488dfd6c0\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The working group will consider further the impact of the tax system on national savings, but it will not be considering capital gains tax or land tax, which the Government has ruled out. It will be considering the role of KiwiSaver in improving national savings, but also the role of Government, because there is not much point lifting KiwiSaver or household savings at the expense of putting the Government further into deficit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d81924ed3fc4267b4d8f6e02b7cc6d1\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Given the Minister\u2019s fondness for history, perhaps I could rephrase my question. What did the most damage to New Zealand savings stock: cutting KiwiSaver, cutting the New Zealand Superannuation Fund contributions, tax cuts for the wealthy, or Robert David Muldoon\u2019s decision to scrap the New Zealand superannuation scheme in the 1970s?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259fce5d8c4424799a2aae053453bd956\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister hear the question? I say to his colleagues that the level of interjection was unreasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ca46fc885ae498ba642620e40461b59\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: What damaged our national savings was economic policy that in the last 9 years delivered a 3 percent increase in after-tax wages. In 9 years under Labour, households had only a 3 percent increase in their after-tax wages, which meant they could not save.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e666168fd0e4c34bbb50abb6bec611a\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: What policies have contributed to the poor performance of New Zealand\u2019s national savings over the past decade?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bee138d518bc4c40a8d760eddc6f65c9\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The policies that would have contributed to higher national savings are economic growth and rising household incomes, which would have given New Zealanders the ability to save. Unfortunately, those policies did not happen. From 2000 to 2009 the average ordinary-time weekly wage after tax and inflation grew by only 3 percent in 9 years. How could people save with an increase in their wages of 3 percent in 9 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b267e574a9854e73b484dd675f3c111b\u0022\u003EEconomic Initiatives\u2014New Policies\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00221c320e74d00f43f894db38e3ce0bc383\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c320e74d00f43f894db38e3ce0bc383\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: What new policies has he announced as Prime Minister over the last month to ensure that the cost of living does not rise faster than wages?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4db2579cf174afebfdf69b3aab5842f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4db2579cf174afebfdf69b3aab5842f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Over the last month I have restated many times the Government\u2019s economic programme to get faster growth, higher wages, and more jobs. The programme is far too wide ranging to list in one go, but for a starter for ten here are a few: personal income tax cuts, company income tax cuts, lower taxes on savings, finding billions of dollars of savings in the public sector, capping the bureaucracy, getting Government debt under control, reforming the welfare system, raising literacy and numeracy standards in schools, increased roading investment, upgrading the national electricity grid, streamlining and simplifying the Resource Management Act, employment law reforms, investing in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209ba03b63aef4ec38428afa9ef6ce5eb\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Apart from the answer being a very long answer, the Leader of the Opposition asked what new policies had been announced in the last month. Clearly, the policies mentioned by the Prime Minister in his answer were not new policies that had been announced in the previous month.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f2ec02ab8594f139a22dd42740af6a6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, one thing is for sure: we heard enough about them, anyhow. I invite the honourable Leader of the Opposition to ask a supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d0c5cf87ab14b70828779f6fb62b608\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Government continued to push up prices and the cost of living through, for example, increased GST, accident compensation increases, increases in taxation on rental property, and road-user charges, when the Department of Labour shows quite clearly that the majority of New Zealanders got no wage rise at all over the last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e824296bdcb4a08848e013738d1578e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there are a couple of things. Firstly, the CPI rate, the inflation rate, average increase under the 9 years of the previous Labour Government was 2.9 percent. Under\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255fbce406c2e4f1a8a848c8486f7bfde\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. In the light of the answer to the last question, which the Prime Minister did not answer, I ask you to bring him to the specific question I actually asked, which is, why has the Government continued to increase things like GST and road-user charges, when nobody has had a wage rise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4b13b493846418c9ccc15e1f70d8e47\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member has a legitimate point of order. The answer should not start with what the previous Government had done, when the question asked what this Government is doing. I think it is fair enough that the answer should address that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207f046a5375c4d7d8efb7c58c68941d3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The reason I did not answer it directly was it was a stupid question. We\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213ff32fc442d4b338153a0447afa0d7b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am on my feet. We will not have that. Question time is not a time to abuse other members. The question asked was a perfectly fair question. It does not deserve that kind of response to be made, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022451128e10ddb421086ab4746bc9d316b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The reason I answered the question like that is that it was an inaccurate question, because we have not raised GST yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f49d1e2072374eecb15c28afcbf699c9\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. How can that answer possibly be right, when we have legislated to raise GST?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022612642c4fdf2422aac5f74f0b578b188\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister answered the question. Exactly when the impact of legislation comes in is clearly a technical matter. I think the Prime Minister answered the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283e1789da7124b5998a0851fe312abe3\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Prime Minister\u2019s answer possibly be right, when under his leadership the Government has legislated to raise GST, even though National promised before the election not to do so?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ce76959c8e542079028d4d7c485139f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I think the salient point here is what the rate of inflation in the economy is at the moment. The answer is that under the National Government it has averaged 1.2 percent; under the previous Labour Government it averaged 2.9 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea5006841c4d44ee9e9e97b088a77a00\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was very specific. It asked how the Prime Minister\u2019s answer could possibly be right\u2014that is, that the Government has not raised GST\u2014when the Government has legislated to raise GST. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aba31dacee524f77b04549a12979e6aa\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House is being very noisy today, and we have to try to bring it under control. There is a dilemma when a member asks another member how an answer can be right. I invite members to think about that question. It invites a member to say a whole range of things when answering such a question, because there is no one answer as to how that answer can be right. The question almost expresses an opinion. If the questioner doubts whether the answer that was given is right, then, naturally, the Minister who is being asked to answer such a question will express a different opinion from the questioner\u2019s. It is something that I alert members to think about. When questions ask for opinions, there is no way that I can insist on the answer being given that the questioner might have wanted. Asking for opinions is not tough questioning. I do not believe I can insist on a more precise answer from the Prime Minister, but I am sure the honourable Leader of the Opposition has further supplementary questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022735aed85443842b885e4dca01abd4889\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: How will a majority of New Zealand wage and salary earners be better off when they got no wage rise last year, but the latest figures from Barfoot and Thompson show that in the last year average rents have gone up in Auckland by over $20 a week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ccbbf2ba9bf43a991049ac5748cbd81\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: That is very simply answered with this graph, which clearly indicates that in the 9 years that Labour was in office, real wage growth was 3 percent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022585fab507651440aa90de8f964da7f9c\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You know well that question time is a time for accountability by the Government. Therefore, this House expects that Ministers will answer specific questions when they are asked. That question was very specific. He is now giving us a lesson in history. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b92fd9633dc641669f6ac2b3a9a3af44\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: On this occasion the right honourable Prime Minister knows that he should not interject while a point of order is being considered. I invite the honourable Leader of the Opposition to reflect on his question. If I recollect it correctly, it contained an assertion that wages had not increased in the last 12 months, and he asked how people could be better off. As I saw it, the Prime Minister was pointing out the pattern of real wage changes over recent years. If one looked at the graph he was holding up, one saw that it showed the pattern of real wage increases over recent years\u2014at least that is what I could see from where I am sitting. I am a bit closer to him, so I accept that it is easier for me to see that. I think the Prime Minister was going to dispute the assertion in the honourable member\u2019s question about wage increases. The Prime Minister is perfectly entitled to do that in answering the question, because he is entitled to challenge the assertion of fact in the question when answering it. Clearly, he does not agree with the statement contained in the question, and he is about to dispute it. When a question is structured like that, I simply come back to my fundamental point that some questions are very hard to answer, but, by and large, questions that seek opinions are not hard to answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb46053a88564b1f9c17e5e55bd9a116\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Let us go back to Economics 101. Here is the graph. After 21 months of this National Government we have real wage growth of 8.7 percent, which is three times what we had under the previous Labour Government after 9 years in office. But let us go into some of the individual things. The cost of fruit and vegetables, which is an interesting topic of debate at the moment, rose by 5 percent, on average, under that Labour Government; the figure was minus 6.5 percent under National.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca5c41b3478a4ef397ed907501864fa0\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table a document showing that the majority of workers in the last year did not receive any wage increases. The document is an ANZ data review based on Department of Labour figures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa02bd220e2b472491dff34811ba06d3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022106ec40838de4cbbbdc5bd93003bbe44\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table a document from Barfoot and Thompson, licensed real estate agents, which shows that in the year to June 2010 rents on average in Auckland have gone up by $20 a week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e54d4238e4ad461aa321ac065b19b89b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022746b3e220b73456dab0c0feb780c8a5d\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Telling the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d241739076174dfeab2b44d77f1a24f4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the Hon Annette King on this occasion that she must not interject while a point of order is being heard. Is there any objection to leave being granted for that document to be tabled? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcea533eb4984bf88b8235aacbb066ec\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Given some of the disputes we have had about various statistics, if the graph that the Prime Minister was holding up was an official document, we request that he table that official document, with the figures he was just outlining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef058d8a5bdc4556b83939b0cdfbeab1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will check with the right honourable Prime Minister. Was it an official document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e25caecb715a472ea2290284582cd904\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220feb6944ec8d4f209954cc2fcf05861e\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Making it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296e011c99f3f46439b9cfeb07abd9059\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Someone will be taking an early shower if a little more courtesy is not shown in the House. Let me alert members, though, that this will get serious, because the House may or may not go into urgency this week. If I put some members out of the House while the House is in urgency, they will be out for the entire period that the House is under urgency, and if those members want to speak in debates, they will not be able to. I just alert members to the fact that I am not happy with the way interjections are being made while points of order are being heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289af1fc71c4a4ceca1c765fd328cc585\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: On that point, what was the answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d186c859481640eeb75ac1ddae1ca601\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was not an official document. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271a71ee8ce0c478798a17eec31bad7a5\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister tell the House how the 93,000 families who have had the funding by the Government to early childhood education cut\u2014and who will be paying $20 to $30 a week extra for their children\u2014will be better off when over half of them have not had a wage increase over the last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd71c6b97dc74597a77549ba55436f99\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there are a couple of things. Fortunately, they have had tax cuts and will have further tax cuts on 1 October. Fortunately, they have enjoyed an average wage growth of 8.7 percent. If I could just give the House one reassurance, it is that if there does have to be an early shower this afternoon, it will be cheaper under National than Labour, because electricity prices have gone up by half. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8d47648ad274bd5bbea2a6724f48ce5\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table a document from the Living and Learning Foundation, whose early childhood centre in M\u0101ngere was opened by the Prime Minister last year, which has said it will have to raise its fees to low-income families by a minimum of $20 to $25 per child per week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223008b365d6ff4aaf815e5f295608c398\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220348c9fe7bbb4891a9ad724911a817c5\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister indicated, in the last part of his answer, that because power prices have gone up, showers are cheaper. My request is that he table his document that shows that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8fe90b504624c0b8f53cdb68ffda31f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is abusing the point of order process, and I will not tolerate that any further. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228971d5ebf6444734ba8edb8830d66027\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: If the Prime Minister is intent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022804742f5e14a4717914ffc4c4ded4d7d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am more than happy to table this bit of my notes, which shows quite clearly that electricity prices have gone up by an average of 2.9 percent under National, and went up by 5.4 percent under Labour. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c362bdf902254b3196bfafff071627bc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the Hon Trevor Mallard to reflect on how that interjection could have been within the Standing Orders. A point of order had been called, and it was being considered. To interject loudly like that, he knows, is totally out of order. I will not actually evict him from the House, because I suspect that he probably wants to be relieved of his duties this afternoon. I will not do that. I will make the honourable member stay here and suffer, and I will be very hard on him. I warn the honourable member that I will be tough on him. I do not think that a member\u2019s scrawled notes constitute an official document; we will not be tabling that sheet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ed4d97729e64921b144ce05207ddb98\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: If the Prime Minister wants to close the wage gap and living standards gap with Australia, why has he made consumption taxes more than 50 percent higher in this country than Australians pay in theirs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298023ae402bb4b9fb966368d9d25511f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, the Government is closing the wage gap with Australia. I am pleased to report that it has fallen from a peak of 38 percent under Labour to 29 percent under National. That is not bad, actually, given that we have had just 21 months in office. Secondly, we have a different series of taxes here. Australia has a capital gains tax; largely, New Zealand does not. New Zealand has much higher personal tax rates than Australia, which is why someone in New Zealand who used to earn under $229,000 in personal income used to pay more tax in New Zealand than in Australia. After 1 October, it will be $55,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc0a265599a04bc4ab40bb8c54a40d17\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Prime Minister tell the country that New Zealand had one of the lowest consumption taxes in the world, when on the basis of OED statistics\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224880ece628c3455a9f814dbcc28aad52\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: OED?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e673ede7620b4130b97ce4b94134d3b6\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014OECD statistics of consumption taxes as a percentage of GDP, his 15 percent GST rate will now be the fourth highest in the world, out of the 30 countries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022043e3c7e4fd7465d92b7e96f526c0b98\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would have to see the quote in totality, but what I can say is that the right mix of taxes has been implemented by the Government. We will have a very effective balance between personal taxes and GST. But if the member does not like the idea of it, then he can campaign on changing it\u2014and I bet he will not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af6953e4478c4575a755ee536762623b\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Maybe you can help me by telling me how in any way that answer addressed the question that I asked. I asked why he told the country that we have one of the lowest rates of consumption taxes in the world, when patently that is untrue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223443b21cb9d41eabe0499a18783c572\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Leader of the Opposition must reflect on the questions he is asking. He asked the Prime Minister why he told the country something. I know that the member probably had an answer that he expected when he asked the question, but there is any range of answers when a member asks a Minister why he or she told the country something. The Prime Minister, if I recollect his answer, said he would want to see the quote in totality before he could comment further on it, but then he explained why he had a certain view on GST, and I do not think that is an unreasonable answer. I keep stressing the point that it is perfectly within the Standing Orders to seek opinions, but as Speaker it is extraordinarily difficult for me to insist on any particular answer when an opinion is sought, because there is no right answer when an opinion is sought. That is the dilemma I face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250d3a4688df846008070edfdf5419ec4\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: This House is entrusted with the task of holding Ministers accountable for what they say. If a Minister says we have one of the lowest consumption tax rates in the world yet evidence can be tabled to show that that is untrue, I ask why it is that a Minister will not be held accountable to answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c076c35c6aaf41c8a4e343de00ad6127\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not an opinion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f37fabce221543318720b97c59bb69e6\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: It is not an opinion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd243517c915404fb064902c8cf3cd23\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I can imagine all sorts of questions that could be asked from a range of questions to test the accuracy of the Prime Minister\u2019s statement, asking him point-blank what certain GST rates are, and then comparing them. The whole idea of supplementary questions is not to make a range of political statements about an issue but to dig into an issue, to test a Minister\u2019s answer. I could think of a whole range of questions that could be asked to test the Prime Minister on that issue, which were not seeking an opinion but actually challenging him on facts, not asking him why he was saying something. The dilemma is that as soon as one asks why or how, that is an opinion, and it is very difficult for me as Speaker to insist on any particular answer being given. I realise that members often want to make a political statement in asking a question, and that is perfectly legitimate, but it is very difficult then for me to insist on any particular answer being given. The political statement that the member was making with that\u2014because I can see he is wondering why I am saying that\u2014in a very subtle sort of way, was that the Prime Minister was not basically telling the truth over something. That is not the way to test out some of the facts through supplementary questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e87aedb332a44417b8c254dbd8ad72ee\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Does New Zealand, at 15 percent, have one of the lowest rates, as he alleged, of consumption taxes in the world as a percentage of GDP; if so, where does it range in the list of 30 OECD countries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255c52cbb08c14c27b627ebce6a1d3c73\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I would need to go and check that at 15 percent GST, because I simply do not have that information to hand. But in the bulk of Europe the rate is higher than 15 percent. What the Government does know is that we have the right mix of taxes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002264f5206151de49f094ef3e2718f58d1f\u0022\u003EAlcohol Law Reform\u2014Balance of Reduction of Harm and Responsible Drinking\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00224b55f0062d8d4c328962d63ff8a9c97c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b55f0062d8d4c328962d63ff8a9c97c\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: How does the Government\u2019s alcohol reform package, announced yesterday, balance the need to reduce alcohol-related harm with the interests of responsible drinkers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u002259e0bf3e376c41ea9b360d0f8faa6723\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259e0bf3e376c41ea9b360d0f8faa6723\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E It does so because reducing the harm caused by alcohol is a significant part of the Government\u2019s policy to reduce the drivers of crime. That is why we have adopted in full or in part 126 of the 153 recommendations of the Law Commission\u2019s report. Proposals to restrict opening hours, the number of licences, and irresponsible advertising will not affect the majority of responsible drinkers. This Government is not in the business of interfering in the lives of those who simply enjoy a drink now and then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cfd784391d0482baeb5f5b0bae21ed2\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Government\u2019s package have a particular focus on youth drinking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2bafd355d4a404d81cd9becf43f2b25\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is targeting young people because, as the Law Commission reported, young people suffer a high and disproportionate level of alcohol-related harm. For example, the highest proportion of alleged offenders who are affected by alcohol are aged between 17 and 20. If a new law is to have any impact on the drinking culture, we need to start with our young people by putting measures in place to control both the supply of alcohol to youth and the environment in which they are drinking. We have done that by proposing an increase in the age for off-licence purchase, limiting the alcoholic content and volume of ready-to-drinks, restricting drinking in spaces such as car-parks and school grounds, and backing the rights of parents to decide who should give their children alcohol.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5d37182f76244658b336b00867a139d\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Why has he failed to address the problem of retailers selling dirt-cheap liquor\u2014alcopops at $1.50 a bottle and wine priced as low as $5 to $6 a bottle\u2014which is depicted in the cartoon I am holding as the dead elephant in the room, alongside these changes, which are depicted as air freshener to cover the smell?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224de46285458b498a9cc8e4f72c96e2e3\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: We have not ignored those recommendations around minimum pricing, at all. In fact, we have made substantial inroads into discussing the arrangements that need to be made for the collection of pricing, sales figures, and data around retailers\u2019 sales of alcoholic products. Those matters will be considered by the select committee as part of an ongoing discussion about alcohol reform, and I am pleased to see that the Leader of the Opposition has indicated he will support the bill\u2019s first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2068c05b2fe4882b5a35119e181993a\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that tamariki do what adults do; if so, how will his reforms change the behaviour of heavy drinkers, 92 percent of whom are adults aged 20 and over?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aadcc8a138344004b66d27b78980669f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, but there are a couple of issues with the statistic that was quoted by the member. The first is that 96 percent of the population who are legally able to drink are over the age of 20. Secondly, setting a culture for young people who will eventually be over 20 is an important part of this package.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221739e40e5a614a72b0186e09037d3027\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government\u2019s logic for excluding casinos from the restrictions it is proposing to place on selling liquor after 5 a.m. in bars and clubs, and will not this exemption simply encourage people in Auckland and Christchurch to head off down to a casino when the local bar has shut and gamble as well as drink?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283af7a3905ad42b19b803b437b7a58cf\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: The reason is that Cabinet agreed with the Law Commission\u2019s recommendation that the status quo should remain\u2014that is, \u201CThe Gambling Act 2003 allows casinos to sell alcohol for consumption in a casino during the hours the casino is open, regardless of the Sale of Liquor Act.\u201D But I can assure the member that the Government will listen to public submissions on this and other matters during the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298cde57205814762b8f2355d682d38ea\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister\u2019s reforms reduce alcohol consumption by M\u0101ori and alcohol-related criminal offences committed by M\u0101ori; if so, what evidence or advice has he received about the degree of such reductions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022806ac599f8d9476eb81746c414cd5226\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is certainly the intention. The Government\u2019s proposals are intended to reduce excessive consumption across the population, including amongst M\u0101ori, and subsequent alcohol-related harm, such as criminal offending. As I have said in this House and in other fora, alcohol law reform is a key component of the Drivers of Crime programme to reduce alcohol-related offending across the population. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222804ad9133c44821818de2f1c7564961\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: When will he introduce to the House legislation to give effect to the Government\u2019s policy announcement? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf04b05de5d34d2098a206c586f6a67a\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: It is my intention to introduce legislation to the House in the middle of October. If the Hon Gerry Brownlee is in agreement, it is my intention for that bill to be read a first time before Christmas. The bill will be sent to a select committee for a full 6 months, and it is my intention to pass the legislation prior to the end of next year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c5a7c9d15fe476ea2a2b69a85322070\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister agree with the co-leader of the M\u0101ori Party Tariana Turia when she said: \u201CWe know that putting up the price is a powerful tool to reduce smoking\u201D; if so, why does he not think the same argument applies to New Zealand\u2019s culture of heavy drinking? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206215f7e31104f178174f579ebf1c8e6\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, because putting up the price of a product that always harms is an effective measure; alcohol does not always harm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239c6de202a8f4931958bd6c380a537e0\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he not refer a Supplementary Order Paper to the select committee considering the Sale and Supply of Liquor and Liquor Enforcement Bill, or would that just remind the public that they have already submitted on local alcohol plans, parental consent for under-age drinking, alcohol advertising measures, and under-20-year-olds having a zero drink-driving limit? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a5347ea8aee424ba6b77550952c47e9\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: I will not be referring a Supplementary Order Paper to the select committee on that bill\u2014which was introduced by the previous Government on 6 August 2008 but was not given a first reading in 12 sitting days, including two periods of urgency, before the House rose for the election. This Government gave that bill its first reading and sent it to a select committee. Unfortunately, it needs to be rewritten. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e13c79235b4a45a79f2df65b9a4a824b\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave for the Liquor Advertising (Television and Radio) Bill, which regulates alcohol advertising, to be set down as a members\u2019 order of the day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c733cb31c10e4fd597b340454cf5e08a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action to be followed. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f9360bf6b1be4badb5f3ab0005e9b048\u0022\u003EJob Creation\u2014Legislation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u002286cbb9fdf4d44654abfa30534da44c7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286cbb9fdf4d44654abfa30534da44c7f\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: When she said last week that \u201Cthis is a great week for New Zealand, with two pieces of legislation encouraging job opportunities and removing the barriers to work,\u201D how many jobs does she expect to be created from these changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbce2d6991f542a39ba6fbaeb4b93dd1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbce2d6991f542a39ba6fbaeb4b93dd1\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment: The Minister was referring to the Future Focus legislation and the 90-day legislation, both of which create more opportunities for jobs. In respect of how many jobs are to be created, the member will know that legislation does not create jobs; what creates jobs is businesses making investments and making decisions to hire people. The Government is relentlessly focused on encouraging them to make those positive decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221248b9745a3c4abcb4ab407676fbdbf7\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, if she has no idea how many jobs will be created from her \u201Cgreat week\u201D, why should New Zealanders have any confidence in a Government that has no plan for jobs, is poll-driven, and uses gimmicks, rather than substance, as an excuse for policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd04b605a41743db8542bb3c7b765948\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: They should have confidence because the Government is executing a wide-ranging plan to manage the economy to achieve two objectives: one objective is to undo the damage done by the previous Government, and the second is to get the economy on a path to recovery, and the early signs of that are promising. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e04f1fcf7df4af385b6e079da52e169\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Did her \u201Cgreat week\u201D include help for nearly 40,000 people who have had to apply to the Government for assistance to pay for their children\u2019s school uniforms, stationery, and fees; if so, has she factored in the GST increase in 37 days\u2019 time, which will further put up the costs faced by those struggling families? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c590def928f344e49262b9d3f248a1d1\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is doing a much better job than that member\u2019s Government did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c760eb031004c42ab22e8794064e20c\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was not about the previous Government. It was a clear question about 40,000 people who have had to go to the Government for help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac4d649c623c41dbbaec53fa24fc12d9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot help but come back to my fundamental point. If the honourable member really wanted to ask a question, rather than make a political statement, she would ask a simple, straightforward question. The idea of that question was, very clearly, to make a political statement. The member should not then appeal to me as Speaker if she does not like the political statement made in return. Question time is meant to be a time to ask tough questions, and I am very supportive of that. Members have seen me be very hard on Ministers who dodge straight, tough questions. But as for political statements, do not appeal to me when the Minister does not answer in the way the member would like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022300d13c77e53423fa18fb5e782cfa9b2\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a press report from the New Zealand Herald showing that 40,000 people had to apply to the Government for help with the cost of school uniforms, fees, and stationery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c814099591545be92d6b43098278048\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members are not going to seek leave to table press reports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cb4a14422ea49dd8b38fa45baf7cc4f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: When GST goes up on 1 October, beneficiaries will be compensated immediately. Under that member\u2019s Government, in 2008, inflation was 5 percent and beneficiaries went for a whole year before they received an adjustment. We are giving them one straight away, on a 2.5 percent increase in GST.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255bc5b16c3654e3b8f4c171f4a8c56a8\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Did her \u201Cgreat week\u201D extend to places like Wanganui, which has seen a number of businesses close recently, and what is in the Government\u2019s plans that will see those businesses reopen, new ones started, and the almost 500 people in that town who went on the unemployment benefit back in jobs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd1d263ec1d345d9ac31fb09772a7911\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Opposition should get behind the Government\u2019s programme, because it is aimed at rebalancing this economy to increase exports, savings, after-tax incomes, and investment. What the Government\u2019s programme will not do is fool people into thinking that jobs based on massive borrowing and Government spending blowouts are real jobs. That is what Labour tried to tell the people of Wanganui. It has turned out they were misled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287a44f7769764794ba60cccb1aa1a6cf\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Did budget advice services tell her that they agree that recent Government policies gave New Zealanders a \u201Cgreat week\u201D, or have the services told her what we have heard\u2014that thousands of families are facing severe hardship, struggling to pay their mortgage, rent, and phone and power bills\u2014and how will driving down wages, increasing GST, and policy gimmicks help them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da56c3c2bdc44f9b885e5160e3f3faa8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, the Minister regularly communicates with all of the services that support New Zealanders in the community, and does so very effectively. Secondly, the Labour Party might want to ignore one fact, but it will undermine its credibility if it does so: all of those families will get a tax cut on 1 October, and the average household will be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e87c605d69045b8a84121749adad89e\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: No, they don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228450d205934e49669f251da71a2c46f3\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: So members of the Opposition say that there is no tax cut on 1 October? Well, they are wrong. The average household will be $25 a week better off, after paying the extra GST.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002259cf7478643a41b6b7b2f5ed6a35022b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022be0713e90df94848b6585e5959432b0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be0713e90df94848b6585e5959432b0c\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to have my question held over until the Minister for Social Development and Employment, Paula Bennett, is in the House to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dce2fa76bf34d709dfda8d9ad12b84a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b5502fa514140dabd93986f4d98aecd\u0022\u003EChild Abuse\u2014Victim Support Initiatives\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9f32f3f453743ecb693b25e58ac2649\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9f32f3f453743ecb693b25e58ac2649\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she stand by her statement to the iwi leaders meeting last week that \u201Cnothing can be more important than dealing with child abuse\u201D; if so, why did she also tell the meeting that \u201Cthe Government doesn\u2019t have all the money for it right now.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00220034ed61da83416e97174d2e8773acb6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220034ed61da83416e97174d2e8773acb6\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Yes, and that is why recently the Minister and her colleague the Minister of Police witnessed the signing of a child protection memorandum of understanding between Child, Youth and Family Services and the Police, which will see them working more closely to assist the victims of child abuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6af0cfedd75488895bf3cbd6e4eeec9\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: How much will it cost to implement a wh\u0101nau finder and family group conferences for young children\u2014the two proposals the Minister asked iwi leaders to help fund?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3bc9c30dc4849adb7000c1c418d1d97\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: A clear and rational review of the Minister\u2019s speech will show that she has said that those are ideas that she has had and she would like to get some feedback from the iwi leaders group. I am sure she would be very interested in hearing from that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227de66400ecb44ab09961c70b4b5f9603\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister not bother to lobby her Cabinet colleagues for the funding for these services when Cabinet was approving, for example, the $2 billion for the \u201CHoliday Highway\u201D from P\u016Bhoi to Wellsford?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bd6e1e905ee44689387f76b6f231c51\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I think I have made it perfectly clear that the ideas that the Minister has shared with the iwi leaders group are in their formative stages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bd40d2e77aa40869ed0e1c61e1b9d01\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister bother to argue, when Cabinet was approving a $4 billion tax cut for the wealthier families in Aotearoa, that perhaps that money might be better spent on child abuse prevention, which apparently nothing can be more important than?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277784d73326a45e1b2721ae7f6d328e2\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: As that member should know, all discussions in Cabinet are confidential. I also say to that member that the State does not have\u2014[Interruption] The Opposition might find this funny but I do not. The State does not have a monopoly on caring nor on taking action. The Minister has, quite wisely, asked the iwi leaders group whether they would like to give her feedback on her ideas, which they have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f1eb9ee703845f98d86df13de74bcce\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: When the Minister developed her policy to work test sole parents did she take into account the fact that just in recent years there have been four reported cases of serious child abuse\u2014two of which resulted in the death of the child\u2014because the child had been left with unsafe adults while the mother was working?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3e0c57294464d4eaba47f15a8e81a4e\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Fifty percent of sole parents and 68 percent of partnered women with children are in paid work. Being in paid work does not make a mother an irresponsible parent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff1d5098bcae418b9d492155b4746c99\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: How can the public have any confidence in a Minister who goes cap in hand to iwi leaders with no costed proposals\u2014but she still wants iwi to fund them\u2014claiming that nothing is more important than dealing with child abuse, when clearly her Government will prioritise many more things that it considers more important than protecting New Zealand children from violence, abuse, and death?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220000731503664c6db3fffa9a0fd6f4e1\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Quite clearly that member was not present at the iwi leaders group when the Minister spoke. Any sensible and reasoned review of the Minister\u2019s speech would show that the allegations made by that member are quite wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226214e23bff9744cba83651fe860ec785\u0022\u003EKatrina Shanks\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to tackle child abuse?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262b2ac01fe41461ba6023c2e71fd6892\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: In addition to the memorandum that I referred to earlier, last year we announced the first wave\u2014the Never, Ever Shake a Baby campaign, which supports the Auckland District Health Board\u2019s shaken baby prevention pilot and the non-governmental organisation First Response\u2014placed Child, Youth and Family social workers in hospitals, and introduced multidisciplinary meetings before discharge, better data and monitoring systems, and an independent experts forum. As part of Budget 2010 we announced funding for extra Child, Youth and Family social workers in hospitals, teen parent intensive case managers, seven supported houses for teen parents, and development of parenting support for teen fathers. Last week we launched Home for Life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002278e2b5d71d154fe786a4cede38f27634\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Recovery\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u00227bcd8e85709b4000aba6292d7d8748ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bcd8e85709b4000aba6292d7d8748ad\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement: \u201Cwe\u2019re getting the right kind of recovery if you take a longer-term point of view\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0aa2e7717a649cfb777eba66666c2df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0aa2e7717a649cfb777eba66666c2df\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. Although the recovery has been patchy, there are early signs that the imbalances that have handicapped this economy through the last 5 or 6 years are unwinding. Those imbalances are pretty straightforward: too much of our resource and borrowing has financed an increase in non-tradables\u2014that is, domestically focused activity\u2014and not enough of it has gone on growing our export capacity. When one is a trading nation, export capacity is pretty important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276cc3a7fd28848a48de1c138fee0d9e0\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: How was the longer-term point of view improved by cutting KiwiSaver incentives and deferring for a decade contributions to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c2542acb426446b9fcf04560b305b95\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Because we did not have any cash to put into the New Zealand Superannuation Fund\u2014in fact, this financial year the New Zealand Government is running a $13 billion cash deficit. If the member is worried about the state of the economy and what has caused it, normally I would tell him to look in the mirror, but he does not need much encouragement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222382e76593dd4e3485a4df5b55c788da\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: If there was insufficient cash to pre-fund the retirement plan for New Zealanders, why was there enough cash to give tax cuts to his wealthy mates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a93138a8912494b803a43fd17077481\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member has clearly arrived from some other planet\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202cffa21d91f4038a99ef9b359338e4f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House will display some courtesy. I am extremely disappointed with the quality of questions being asked today and some of the answers being given. The Minister made a very unhelpful comment at the end of his last answer, which I ignored; maybe I should not have ignored it. To start the answer to a question with an attack on the questioner is simply not acceptable. It does not show a Minister on top of his or her game, at all; it shows a Minister stooping to attack another member of this House instead of demonstrating his or her skill at being on top of the game and answering even a poor question\u2014and I am not saying that that was a poor question\u2014as well as he or she can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI must say that today I think the quality of questions has been very poor. They have been more political statements than questions. I could apply the Standing Orders and rule a lot of them out of order, and the House would possibly be a lot better for it. I do not want to do that, but if members are going to continue to just make political statements instead of asking questions, I may have to do it. The quality of question time has to improve. Today has not been a high-quality question time. It is not helped when a Minister simply attacks a questioner like that. It is unacceptable. The Hon Bill English will come to the question asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab216320c25f4b3096d8813aef9fccec\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That question is rather unusual, given that this House has spent 3 or 4 months debating a Budget where about half of the funding for the income tax cuts comes from GST increases. I thought that the member knew about the GST increase, because his party is campaigning on it. There was also revenue from other sources, which made the package broadly fiscally neutral. The result of that package is that 75 percent of earners in New Zealand now have a top statutory tax rate of 17.5c in the dollar. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239e3fe89c1ba4ce584e226d587bc4ee8\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: How can he expect to reduce overseas debt through savings when he is planning to further liberalise the overseas investment regime, making it easier for foreigners to buy New Zealand land and assets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208e8f540a9c34deca51d8070a869cc45\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has actually signalled its understanding of the concern about overseas investment and assets. But we need to bear in mind that because we do not save enough, in order to have jobs in New Zealand we need overseas investment or we simply will not have the capital coming in to create jobs. We have to strike a balance between our need for overseas capital, because we do not provide it ourselves, and protecting those things that are very important to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002275302b2df5954139b42a5a0dca6ef824\u0022\u003EResource Management Act Reforms\u2014Consents for Major Infrastructure\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4ffb0faf4dc4945bdc7918c5e796364\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4ffb0faf4dc4945bdc7918c5e796364\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National\u2014West Coast - Tasman)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: How will changes made last year to the Resource Management Act 1991 help the efficient processing of consents for major transport and electricity infrastructure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022972af20d2e5743e2ae210bf87d4b290b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022972af20d2e5743e2ae210bf87d4b290b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E The national consenting option provided in the first phase of the Government\u2019s resource management reforms is attracting high levels of interest. The process has the advantage of being a single robust process overseen by the new Environmental Protection Authority. It has a board chaired by an Environment Court judge and up to four specialist members with skills relevant to the application. The one-step process requires a decision within 9 months with limited appeal rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e49a1760b30a4ca78a9e1827fbeb0fd9\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: What significant applications have been lodged with the new Environment Protection Authority; and is the Minister aware of other projects being considered for the streamlined process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022194c3035c73443cbaa9c247db81a06eb\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The Environment Protection Authority has received two major applications: Contact Energy\u2019s $1 billion Tauhara 2 geothermal station near Taup\u014D, in February; and Auckland\u2019s $2 billion Waterview Connection on State Highway 20, last Friday. The Environment Protection Authority has also been in dialogue on six other major infrastructure projects that are likely to be lodged over the next year, including Transmission Gully in Wellington, and the Christchurch Southern Motorway. The expected total investment being considered under the streamlined process during this term of Parliament will involve infrastructure worth over $6 billion. It is an important part of the Government\u2019s economic and job strategy that these are processed efficiently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233e8319309cd4642a4add451f9064123\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen reports of the drawn-out resource consent processing that took 15 years in the case of the Wellington Inner City Bypass, 12 years in the case of the Whangamata marina, 10 years in the case of the Northern Gateway motorway, and 6 years in the case of the Wair\u0101kei geothermal expansion; and what reports has he seen on actions taken during the last decade to address these obvious problems?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ff42fab59cf4eb794d776e3abf56f53\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have, and both the environment and the economy were the losers from those delays. For instance, the 6-year delay, from 2001 to 2007, in consenting the Wair\u0101kei Power Station contributed to the record high burning of coal at Huntly to generate the necessary electricity. Equally so, the delays with the Wellington Inner City Bypass and the Northern Gateway project resulted in years of additional congestion with extra unnecessary emissions and the loss of economic efficiency. No attempt was made to fix these delays during the previous 9 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221bffebd2d476404292e5a74d1fcb7b0c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00225712b1eb4cdc4b41a713b4f5f3266fd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225712b1eb4cdc4b41a713b4f5f3266fd3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E My apologies for coming back to this issue so late, but it took a few moments to get the data. I seek leave to table the OECD chart listing where New Zealand now ranks in terms of GST. Of the 29 countries in the OECD that are reported on for GST, New Zealand is 21st\u2014in other words, there are 28 countries above us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca5af6c3375e46349da47c1e3496973b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House has got enough information. I say to the right honourable Prime Minister that when seeking leave to table a document the entire document is not read out. Leave is being sought\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297f9936324c14e9bbc0dfec9cffd359f\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek clarification as to the nature of the document. Does it show GST as a percentage of GDP?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224870419df71043c9ac7839dccaf2e27b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the right honourable Prime Minister to reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9031d331a5547dba6add379edfd4fed\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No. It is the rate\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228660e492c62b469ba7379d62155189b9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the right honourable Prime Minister. I extended to the Leader of the Opposition the courtesy of allowing him, under a point of order, to seek clarification as to the document. That outburst from the Labour front benches was unacceptable. The Speaker has measures available to sort this place out if he needs to, and I will not be backward in using them if I have to. The House has been unacceptably disorderly today. The Prime Minister has sought leave to table that document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022351d15fbde6f42f39e4bf14c5a376d6d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave for that to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240e1e3b35f30441d9037732103db65af\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00222a06bae500b84937be44778d00b902cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a06bae500b84937be44778d00b902cb\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Earlier, in my replies to questions today, I raised an issue with the Leader of the Opposition, who has come into the House with unsubstantiated quotes. The quote that I gave, which I have now checked, is in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdac46bc0019440ca5a792ac2a658f44\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Even the Prime Minister cannot litigate an issue by way of point of order. I sense that the right honourable Prime Minister is seeking by way of point of order to debate an issue with the Leader of the Opposition. He cannot do that. No one in this House can do that. That is not a matter of order; that is a matter of what took place during an exchange during question time, and a point of order is not the way to deal with it. The right honourable Prime Minister has two options: he can make a ministerial statement, which is debatable, or if the matter reflects on him personally, he can seek leave to make a personal explanation. But no member can litigate an issue by way of point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272bc10ce44ed41359cd2000259fc78a4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am not challenging your ruling, Mr Speaker. What I am saying\u2014and I think it is a point you might reflect on\u2014is that the Leader of the Opposition has got into the habit of coming to the House with theoretical quotes. He does not have them in writing and cannot produce them, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227547584bd3e545e0af43c3fd36d2cc52\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The right honourable Prime Minister must resume his seat. [Interruption] Was that a Ng\u0101puhi war cry? The right honourable Prime Minister must accept the Standing Orders of the House. Any quote contained in a question of a member has been validated by the Clerk\u2019s Office. Although I accept that sometimes the quotes may be a short part of a longer passage, where the quote is contained in a question the Minister\u2014as I have heard the right honourable Prime Minister do\u2014in answering the question can point out the rest of the quote and where he or she disagrees with the way in which the quote has been interpreted. But we cannot litigate it in this House. What I would accept is that if the right honourable Prime Minister is saying that the Speaker\u2014and the Speaker is ultimately responsible for this\u2014has failed to properly validate a question, then I am prepared to look at the particular question, and I apologise in advance if I have failed to have a question properly validated. As for points of order beyond that, I am very happy to look at a question if the Prime Minister wishes me to look at a particular question, but members should not be debating across the House whether a member has used a quote correctly. It is the responsibility of my office to make sure that any quote contained in a question is correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00223f9b7c3892504611ac91819d22159515\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f9b7c3892504611ac91819d22159515\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was not a primary question. If it had been a primary question, that would be absolutely fine. What the member is doing is in supplementary questions providing quotes that are inaccurate, and you, Mr Speaker, then make me answer those questions, and rightfully so. But if the member is not providing proper quotes, I cannot be expected to answer things that are actually inaccurate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202d3583df4d24c24a59cf6d1211318c1\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ec8139298744d07a9031c76b61801ce\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear the Hon Darren Hughes briefly, but I do not want to hear too much argument.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd2e3ae8d94a43a8b195802f122cfe7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd2e3ae8d94a43a8b195802f122cfe7a\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Sure. There are two points. Firstly, the Prime Minister makes a personal reflection on another member of the House\u2014[Interruption]\u2014by saying, as he has done by way point of order, that a member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022814c0a1c150e43bf9e0d92d69cacdbab\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not going to help, and members will not interject. That is not going to help the order of the House. The Prime Minister has raised something that he feels quite concerned about. I do accept that it is an issue of order, because if quotes are used in supplementary questions and Ministers feel they are being used improperly, that, I guess, can lead to disorder. But having said that, I must say that when a question contains a quote, the Minister gets the final word in answering the question, and has the chance to point out that the quote is inaccurate. That is a perfectly good answer to a question that contains a quote\u2014to point out that the quote is selective or is not reflecting the point being made when the statement was made by the Minister. It is a perfectly fair answer to such a question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI do not think I have been unduly hard on Government Ministers answering questions today; if anything, I have been quite hard on Opposition members over the quality of questions asked, where they have sought my assistance and I have not insisted on any particular answers. I feel that today no one could argue that I have been unduly harsh on Ministers by expecting any particular answer; if anything, I have been the other way. If the Hon Darren Hughes has a further point I will hear it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ecd450087374e6dbc8089a07c374246\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: The second point is on the point the Prime Minister raised about supplementary questions. As you know, the point the Prime Minister made is often a point the Opposition feels. We do not see information given by way of answer to a supplementary question as full, or consistent with previous answers, or accurate in respect of the primary question. We have written letters to you alleging a breach of privilege on those matters that have taken place in answers to supplementary questions. So it is completely open to the Prime Minister: if he believes that the words that have been quoted are not his, then he can write to you\u2014go down the privilege line\u2014that a member is alleging that he said words that he did not say. Then it will be up to the questioner to supply the actual quote that has John Key\u2019s words in it, and it will be up to John Key as the person alleging a breach of privilege to show that he is not the person responsible for that quote. That seems to be quite a simple way forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eae362f240c4413fb9246e1477cd5ab6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear the Hon Gerry Brownlee. I do not want to take too much time on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00222f2f3c05f7ee4dfdb79c31d32e4a0932\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f2f3c05f7ee4dfdb79c31d32e4a0932\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I realise that, but it is relatively important. Would it be, then, an acceptable answer for a Minister to say \u201CI cannot verify the quote.\u201D? That is the situation that Ministers are left in. No Minister, let alone the Prime Minister, who is constantly making public statements about a range of things\u2014as you would except the Prime Minister to do\u2014knows at all times exactly what the context was of the quote that is being put to him. I think the proposal that the Hon Darren Hughes put forward gets to the level of being ridiculous\u2014that we have to start dissecting this issue through letters to the Speaker, for goodness\u2019 sake! I think the problem becomes that where Ministers have been confronted with quotes that are out of context, and perhaps even off the topic, there is still insistence from the Chair that the question be answered. That, I think, gets to the difficulty of it. If it is acceptable for Ministers to say that they cannot\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf531054182248f78e6094c3d60ad58a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think we have heard sufficient on this. I would be interested in checking the record today. I do not believe that I have insisted that any Minister answer a question today that contained a quote. I have made it very clear that I do not insist on any particular answer from Ministers where opinions are being sought. I accept that this is always going to be a slightly tricky issue, but it is not too difficult. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EMembers are perfectly at liberty to include what they believe is a quote in a supplementary question, as long as it is crucial to the question being asked, not just an additional injection of a statement into the question. As long as it is fundamental to the question being asked, they are perfectly at liberty to do that, and the Minister being questioned is perfectly at liberty to dispute the quote. That is the risk that members take when they include a quote in a supplementary question that has not been validated; they risk a Minister in responding simply disputing the quote, which is a perfectly fair answer to the question. I do not see any great difficulty here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI do not think I have put Ministers under undue pressure at all to answer any questions today; if anything, I would not be surprised if the members of the Opposition feel that the Speaker was a bit hard on them today. But I do not resile from what I have said. I have heard too many questions today that were simply a quite convoluted political statement rather than a real question. Members need to reflect on that. If they want the Speaker\u2019s assistance in getting answers to questions, I will help them when they ask a simple, clear, hard question, but I cannot assist when the questions contain quotes or are convoluted questions seeking opinions and making political statements. I think we are ready to move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00229f29e8fde87e4c0595646f08bafef7be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f29e8fde87e4c0595646f08bafef7be\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I seek the leave of the House to table a document showing consumption taxes as a percentage of GDP in OECD nations 2007. It was compiled in my office from 2009 OECD revenue statistics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241dd22eda06d476795ddaeab9e8ada49\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This document was compiled in the office of the honourable Leader of the Opposition, using OECD statistics. Is there any objection to that document being tabled? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc91022d80f8428aaeff2f2cf1d74a37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc91022d80f8428aaeff2f2cf1d74a37\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I draw your attention to Speaker\u2019s ruling 156/3, which states: \u201CWhen a question is based on a quotation or excerpt from a newspaper article, the excerpt must be correct, or if the report is paraphrased in the question, the paraphrase must be a fair one.\u201D The statement that I made, which was paraphrased by the Leader of the Opposition\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229027e0f1823e4f9e8797d7fef435e331\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: What was the Standing Order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcd0030b84d740b7a194a8d33a5219c5\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Speaker\u2019s ruling 156/3. The quotation that was paraphrased by the Leader of the Opposition I made in relation to GST at the time, and it was that we have one of the lowest GST rates. I have proven absolutely that that is correct. The member is now trying to change that, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed4bf9aa19ef45d28ff5774452ea815b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the right honourable Prime Minister to resume his seat, because what he is now doing is debating this issue. The Standing Orders cannot be used to debate the issue. I think the members have made their points perfectly clear through the documents that have been tabled. The right honourable Prime Minister sought leave to table a document that showed relative GST rates, approval was given, and I think the document confirms the point that he was making. The honourable Leader of the Opposition sought leave to table a document that compiled GST data in terms of percentage of GDP, and leave was granted for that document to be tabled. The public has heard the exchange, and I think they realise the difference in points between percentage of GDP and actual GST rates. I do not think there is any great difficulty here. All I would ask is that for question time to be most effective, questions need to be more direct. Political statements are, strictly, out of order, but I do not intervene all the time, because I do not want to be disrupting question time in the way I have done today, which I regret very much. I do not want to be doing that. But it is in the hands of Ministers. Ministers can hear when a question is a political statement, and they know I am not going to do much about the answer. But when a straight, clear question is asked, that is a different matter. I do not think we need to take the matter any further today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022952067f3ed89407d8250be1c3d9a6a21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022952067f3ed89407d8250be1c3d9a6a21\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would ask you to go away and, later on, reflect on Speaker\u2019s ruling 156/3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e23b080ea76146f0bad9c807b0aaa78a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have the Speaker\u2019s ruling right in front of me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a965f89177564a2498ddf4cf063e472c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I go back to the point I read out before: \u201Cif the report is paraphrased in the question, the paraphrase must be a fair one.\u201D That is my point, Mr Speaker. The questions coming out of the mouth of the Leader of the Opposition are not fair, because they make an assertion that is different from the quote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d26d45cf01fe46bf861b79de168472aa\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members asking questions do need to be careful not to be making assertions in the question. A question is meant to be a question, not a statement. I accept that there is a point there. What worries me is that if I were to apply the particular Standing Order that covers that issue, I would be ruling out more than half the questions, and I do not want to be doing that\u2014I do not want to be doing that. But, at the same time, Ministers need to remember that if they feel that a question made an incorrect allegation about something that they have said, they can simply say that in answering the question. They can clear up the matter and deal with it at that time by saying \u201CThat is not what I said.\u201D That is a perfectly good answer to the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5b526c059cf460aaf027a2818f9ca8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5b526c059cf460aaf027a2818f9ca8c\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I ask you to take your ruling a step further and also reflect on the letters that you have received and replied to on the question of privilege by way of answer. If members on this side of the House are required to be accurate in their questions, I ask that the same standards be applied to answers, because you have repeatedly ruled that they do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294caede600c54d24b5f91e33e1cde9fd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think that is very helpful in terms of where the House has got to now. If one looks at the way in which I am applying the Standing Orders in question time, one would have to accept that, on a strict interpretation of the Standing Orders, I am being somewhat harder on answers than I am on questions. My judgment was that it was preferable for me not to be ruling out questions that do not really comply with the Standing Orders; it was better to leave them in the hands of Ministers to deal with. Ministers are perfectly capable; when they hear a question that is outside the Standing Orders, they do not need my help to know how to answer, and it makes question time flow better. I do not want to come back to applying the Standing Orders strictly. However, if I feel that question times too often end up like question time today, I will do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI have to say that it is my feeling that I have been harder on answers than I have been on questions, because from time to time I have insisted on Ministers answering questions. But if I am to apply the Standing Orders strictly, many questions will be ruled out, because many of them contain superfluous statements and are often just purely thinly disguised political statements and strictly do not meet the requirements of the Standing Orders at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EAll that I ask members to think about, in response to the last point of order, is that being careful with what one says in this House is important. I have given the matter a lot of thought, actually, and I will have some discussions with the Standing Orders Committee about it, because I am concerned that at times not enough care is taken with what is said in this House. All I would ask is that both sides of the House be careful in what they say and what they allege, because this is Parliament, we are elected members of the House, and we should be careful with what we say in this place. That is just an appeal to members to be careful. I would like us now to move on, to try to get through question time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u002282988a2b7d094a08b83e1632be044ce8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282988a2b7d094a08b83e1632be044ce8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I ask you, after question time, to go away and reflect on this matter. The statement made by Mr Mallard before was in itself an admission that quotes are actually being paraphrased incorrectly, because members opposite are not happy with the answers they have been getting from you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225e1605d369645a7b653e4043cff9a2b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5bfda3f017f4c75966f8e64b5363abf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We will not take that any further. I have to say to the right honourable Prime Minister that that was not helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291766fa22bb24dec840dbfa59dd66237\u0022\u003ERt Hon John Key\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s accurate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281798be654d04507aa011bb99742b1c3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister will not argue with me in the House. Even the Prime Minister has been known to leave the House. Ministers need to be a little bit realistic about this. There are some components of a question that I cannot judge in the House as Speaker. Sure, I can rule out outlandish assertions, but if a question contains a quote, how is the Speaker to know that the quote may be out of context or may not be strictly accurate? The Speaker cannot judge that in the House, and that is why it would be wrong for the Speaker to try to rule in too hard a way on some questions. But Ministers do have the last say. Ministers, when they hear a quote that is unreasonable or that has misrepresented their point of view, in answering the question can say that, and I will absolutely support Ministers in pointing that out; it is a fair answer to the question. I do now want to move on, because the House has taken a lot of time on this. I think the exchange has been worthwhile, because I have been very disappointed with today\u2019s question time. I think the time taken to sort through this issue has been worthwhile, but I will look forward to an improvement in quality as we move forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b5e8f785eef6400d86f57da827cf42e3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d914d33003be42a580d3c05f30e36e9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d914d33003be42a580d3c05f30e36e9d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is a completely separate point of order. I put this question down to the Minister for Economic Development, but it was redirected by the Government to the Minister of Finance. I seek leave to put it to the Minister for Economic Development, who is in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022845d8393302c40a4851ea62bdf3e2db4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection. The\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ce7446bfa9c4df3bd1b1b187464d7f6\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b290c01577a348879b0caeabcfab820f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not see what the further point of order is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022810e6bad03084b7eb0b06133e3f228e1\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I think you will have to wait and hear it, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f7f009201664c499aeb351e9b5d2259\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear the Hon Trevor Mallard, but I am getting a little tired of the time being spent this way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f985c0a5796540a79d5d7a9b7215f509\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to refer you to Speakers\u2019 rulings 144/2-3 and 144/5, and ask you whether this is one of those questions where the power taken by previous Speakers to refuse to allow the transfer could be invoked, in light of the fact that this Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be1258b8aee9413e970b159f84de43ce\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat immediately. [Interruption] The member will resume his seat right now. It is absolutely the Government\u2019s prerogative which Minister is to answer a question. This question, as I read it, contains issues to do with the Budget; Budget 2010 is specifically mentioned in the question. The fact that it has been transferred to the Minister of Finance to answer is nothing unusual whatsoever, and there will be no further points of order on the matter. The Hon David Parker will ask his question and we will move on. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274dc8591acad4af0b9998f0ba9148fa7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Trevor Mallard will leave the House, and he will do so without any scene or I will name him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard withdrew from the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220ebba49c51ee4d588c4391343ffed2ed\u0022\u003EIncome Gap, Parity with Australia\u2014Non-residential Business Investment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe7349d32de243018dd7e722468ee3ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe7349d32de243018dd7e722468ee3ab\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Has he received any reports on his statement in Budget 2010 which forecast the growth in non-residential business investment to be 6.2 percent for 2011, increasing to 10.3 percent in 2012, and does he think these forecasts are important components of his Government\u2019s plan to close the wage gap in Australia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5d8f80575a745469ada93eca571b36e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5d8f80575a745469ada93eca571b36e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f9d5aa3a4e04a0799370738eb4d6aec\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Is the forecast 6.2 percent increase in non-residential business investment by next year a milestone upon which his Government is willing to be held accountable in respect of its election promise to close the wage gap with Australia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9c3ead0352242518e221e36fdf60774\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022029e23f2fc7d46d3bd0f665f300d1eb6\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: If by June next year his Government has not even restored the wage gap between New Zealand and Australia to what it was when National took office, will he accept that his Government has failed in its election promise to close the wage gap with Australia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d8f64eb0b4d434398fe91bae7d1ec5d\u0022\u003ERt Hon John Key\u003C/span\u003E: Done that already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022519147d2583f43c381542c332e05278b\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: That is nonsense, Mr Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dac41234a3c4884b505ee5016c30b1e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d084017fcd0e43a78fecc8ce198a70f3\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the National Party economic policy document dated 1 August 2010 make no reference to closing the wage gap with Australia, and why has it dropped any reference to the promise of a step change in the New Zealand economy, which was in the February 2010 version?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229c50fd766ce47a39a51e21c582193b7\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The document that the member is referring to sets out in detail the Government\u2019s plan for lifting economic growth. We are proceeding with that plan, despite two major difficulties. The first is the damage done to this economy by the previous Government, and the second is the world economy, which is patchy in its recovery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220f427f34c024e10a9ea12e15b792e53\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a February document, entitled The Economy: Our 2010 Priorities; a National Government document that included a step change in the economy, more mining, and a financial services hub. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cddce066f7894e24ba361dccedbf22a0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c1b226498474127b046dad85a25092e\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the 1 August 2010 equivalent, which has no reference to closing the wage gap, or a step change, or a financial services hub.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c99f15d8e8b40b5a0264becf1e1b680\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022237f3da9118349f58548e4d98964aa83\u0022\u003E\u201CThree Strikes\u201D Legislation\u2014\u201CStrike\u201D Offences\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022 data-id=\u0022486493fa391540d5b69bf4b47f586862\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022486493fa391540d5b69bf4b47f586862\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: How many people have been convicted of a \u201Cstrike\u201D offence since 1 June 2010, and how many offenders have been sentenced?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022815daacec2744fcdb0ad0059b8d47aab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022815daacec2744fcdb0ad0059b8d47aab\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E The Ministry of Justice has advised me that as at 22 August, 45 offenders have been convicted of a first-strike offence. There have been no convictions of second-strike or third-strike offences. Five of those 45 offenders have now been sentenced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022394409f36a7c4fd2b386ec53b874f8a5\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: What effect will the \u201Cthree strikes\u201D law have on recidivist offenders, who under Labour\u2019s legislation could be released after serving just one-third of their sentence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022003b06675cc4476da21c98100dd7ddfd\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: The new law means that the worst repeat violent offenders will not receive parole. Parole is a privilege that must be earned. It should not be granted to those who demonstrate total disregard for the law by continuing to commit serious violent offences despite warnings. Offenders who remain in prison to serve their full sentences will not have the opportunity to commit further crime. This means there will be fewer victims, and that is an excellent outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6cb8f68e4a0419fa9f464618356b93b\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I thought ACT was an independent party. Are all the supplementary answers written down? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d89aae0e99c47eba942228a47cd6224\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the ACT Party\u2014and Grant Robertson MP\u2014which recently expressed the view that we should be focusing on zero-tolerance policing, which, as Mr Robertson noted, has been hugely successful in slashing crime rates in New York; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022906506552fb745bbb07469b4f1b71f5c\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I am always happy to hear suggestions, even when they are from the Opposition. However, I would like to say that the police are now implementing a policing excellence programme, which has a number of work streams that will change the face of policing in New Zealand. Several aspects of the programme have already been trialled, particularly in Counties-Manukau, and the programme is already having a marked impact on community safety. The police will be rolling out these programmes nationwide, and I expect that they will make a very positive impact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bc3203dccc64c968f9dc3d73297157c\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: How many cases have there been where a strike should have been recorded against a sentenced offender but has not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022673a74eaef7a46839bffe4eec70a6541\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have those figures for the member, but I am happy to provide them to him should he put down a written question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256e6654d0e12420bafaf1a37cddb0af8\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I ask you to reflect on that answer. The Minister obviously prepared a set of statistics very germane to the primary question. Is it the case that this Minister will prepare in a very narrow way, and then on a number of occasions simply say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225027bc5f73ae413bb79405bedd06d138\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister gave a commendably honest answer to the question asked. She told the House that she did not have that particular information. She did not put a lot of political padding round it, and I think it was a perfectly fair answer to the question. She would not have known that exactly that question would come up, and I think she is to be commended for giving an honest, straight answer to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d18fbbb1ba424a11bbe97f89f4ae13e7\u0022\u003EPacific Economic Development Agency\u2014Call for Bids for Budget Funding\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u002217d0305681e54242825e1d7f6c045005\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217d0305681e54242825e1d7f6c045005\u0022\u003ESU\u2019A WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Pacific Island Affairs: Why did the chief executive of the Ministry of Pacific Island Affairs announce last week that a range of organisations will now be asked to bid for the $4.8 million that was specifically earmarked in this year\u2019s Budget for the Pacific Economic Development Agency Ltd?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb111b278bc2457f8597a1b8b152afa4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb111b278bc2457f8597a1b8b152afa4\u0022\u003EHon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU (Minister of Pacific Island Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E It is my understanding that the chief executive of the Ministry of Pacific Island Affairs thought that the public may be interested to know that he is inviting tender applications from a number of Pacific agencies and organisations, including the Pacific Education Centre, the Pacific Business Trust, the Village Trust, C-Me Mentoring Foundation, and the Pacific Economic Development Agency, with the intention of negotiating a package to build skills, qualifications, and entrepreneurship among young Pacific people. Clearly, this is a chief executive with a keen appreciation of the Government\u2019s wish and desire to invest in Pacific people and communities, to ensure their future success and prosperity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281f91823d870420cbc9a3e41f8152206\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a William Sio\u003C/span\u003E: Does she now accept that this was a shonky deal from the start, which her ministry confirmed by not endorsing the Pacific Economic Development Agency proposal, and will she now accept that this was an attempt to use public money for political advantage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dac59654b5a42e2af18a8e3cbb6259a\u0022\u003EHon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not accept any of those assertions. This was a Budget appropriation made on the basis of the economic development needs of Pacific people in the Auckland region. Certainly, the proposals put forward by the Pacific Economic Development Agency coincided with the Government\u2019s appreciation that there needed to be a real focus on young Pacific adults who were without skills and training. From the Government\u2019s perspective, what is important is that we have appropriated new money\u2014in fact, the largest single injection of funding into the Ministry of Pacific Island Affairs in 10 years\u2014to help some of the most underprivileged and vulnerable members in the community. I would have thought that that member would applaud the Government\u2019s initiative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022365f7ab954054657a38b148e4191667f\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a William Sio\u003C/span\u003E: Why is she so willing to risk $4.8 million of taxpayer funds by still including the Pacific Economic Development Agency in the tender process announced, when her own ministry has warned that this private company has not delivered on any projects of note and is untested and unproven in the ability to deliver on projects of this scale?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcdf168ef446407cabea434452f66d56\u0022\u003EHon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU\u003C/span\u003E: As the member knows, the appropriation was always subject to the successful completion of a purchase agreement with the Pacific Economic Development Agency. In the meantime, the chief executive has now decided to tender out the funding, and, as we have previously said, decisions on purchase agreements are a matter for officials.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f0867f3ef4940ef81084c3d27c8ea8d\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a William Sio\u003C/span\u003E: Will she tell Parliament who should be held accountable for the shambolic Pacific Economic Development Agency affair: herself, as the responsible Minister; Mr English, who named the Pacific Economic Development Agency as his preferred provider; Mr Key, who stated in the answer to written question No. 12758 that he met with Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga, Michael Jones, and Va\u2019aiga Tuigamala at the Columbus Cafe in June 2009, but could not recollect whether J R Pereira was there or whether they discussed funding at all; or all of the above?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfc3225ca6a947e5a9d33ae277cbb484\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] I am on my feet, and there will be silence. I just ask members to please think a little about the questions they are asking. I listened to a question a moment ago that contained a derogatory statement in it, and now this question did not need to contain the assertion that this was a shambolic affair. Those sorts of questions are totally outside the Standing Orders and should not be allowed. I ask what I am to do as Speaker. The question went on and on and asserted all sorts of stuff into the question, and that is simply not good enough. I have insisted on Ministers answering straight questions. I have given the Opposition huge power through that, and to throw it away with meaningless political statements is a tragedy for this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI invite Su\u2019a William Sio to re-ask his question in an intelligible way in order to cut out the assertions about what he might think of a programme, because that is irrelevant to a question and it is outside the Standing Orders. I invite him to ask a question that the Minister can answer. I call Su\u2019a William Sio. [Interruption] I say to the Government benches that they should show some courtesy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ea89bc0af8440a59edd0ee9153f631e\u0022\u003ESu\u2019a William Sio\u003C/span\u003E: Will she tell Parliament who should be held accountable for the U-turn of this Government on the Pacific Economic Development Agency affair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bd5aa67-2f2b-4a13-a2b4-21a392396f11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aafd2b69b9f6401ea9973a9961264969\u0022\u003EHon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU\u003C/span\u003E: I do not accept the premise that there is a U-turn. There is an appropriation of taxpayers\u2019 money here, which this Government appropriated to improve the well-being of young Pacific people. That is something that Labour did not do in its 10 years in Government, and that member should be ashamed of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291a76dd2e8344adc9a115196e774af66\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. There has been a lot of sermonising today about the language used by Opposition members in their questions. That Minister just screamed across the House at my colleague that he should be ashamed of himself. He put down a question on an issue that he has taken up in this Parliament over several days. This issue is very close to the heart of my colleague and his constituents. His commitment to the issue is clear. He has been asking questions of this Minister, and instead he gets personal abuse. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215e05d4dc0864904bcaf0a86ca8d758e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There will not be interjections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202d5e8508f59476aa10f3995c5cd2095\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if Tau Henare would not mind not interjecting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2bf15066519419ab5c41ad1a6de5f34\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have heard the member. Members should know that if a question alleges that the Government has done a U-turn, they are likely to get a fairly strong response from the Government, because Governments do not like to be accused of having done U-turns. Like it or not, that is the reality. I think that members should think about the questions that they are asking, if they do not want fairly robust responses to be made. To accuse a Minister of having done a U-turn will invariably elicit a response from him or her. I accept that Ministers should not in any way make a personal attack on the questioner. Members will note that today I have pulled up several Ministers who I feel have made personal attacks on questioners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3833b59d08a4dd68a5eb68ac07b05c4\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just seek clarification. We have heard your messages about asking straight questions. The implication of your latest ruling is that we are required to ask the questions that the Government would like to hear in order to avoid personal abuse. I am sure that that cannot be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220136668d50694892983cf7f7bbc79c63\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If members would like me to do this, I would be very happy to run Questions 101 for them on how to ask tough questions. As a former Minister, I have probably answered as many questions in this House as any other member, and as a member I have probably asked more questions than any other member of this House. I am very happy to assist members if they want to have a little assistance on how to ask a tough question, but it is not very difficult. We will not waste more time on that right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002207596123a5864d94bf352303a02940c2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00224e4040c07798448cbbd060a2db847fdd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e4040c07798448cbbd060a2db847fdd\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I was challenged before as to whether my quote was correct, in that the Prime Minister said tax on consumption was at a relatively low rate. I seek leave to table the document where he said that. By the way, this is his statement to Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00223ef2d979dbd7464da5174b40313f465c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ef2d979dbd7464da5174b40313f465c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If Parliament already has the statement, there is absolutely no need to table it, whatsoever. It just wastes the time of the House. [Interruption] Another point of order is being called, but I warn members that my patience is wearing thin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222a4a774f3d9d4f788d2c6cbbb1ac89b0\u0022\u003EQuestion Time\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022c18a7889ada04ef0b8cfc139984cef71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c18a7889ada04ef0b8cfc139984cef71\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I ask you to simply reflect on a matter that I raised with you a couple of weeks ago, which has been illustrated today. Without wishing to take the time of the House, these matters could be well resolved if you were to revisit your ruling in respect of tabling public documents. The simple dilemma that has been placed before the House today is one of whom we believe, without getting into the detail. The member rose to table, yes, a document\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00225424f9d05a5e4ae78267f3cdae127e50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225424f9d05a5e4ae78267f3cdae127e50\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have heard sufficient from the member. I am not about to revisit that decision. The Standing Orders around tabling documents are very simple. Where leave is sought to table documents, it is to provide information for the House. Trying to score points\u2014\u201CI\u2019m right; you\u2019re wrong\u201D\u2014is not the purpose of tabling documents. If members do not have the intellect to ask hard questions and to show through their questioning that they are putting Ministers on the spot, and to embarrass Ministers, they should not be members of this House. They should not waste time\u2014[Interruption] The Hon Tau Henare will be silent while I am on my feet. Simply making a political statement by way of a supplementary question, then seeking leave to table a document is not what question time is about. If the member does not want to join his colleague, this had better be a very good point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00222c45dec763a8421da7dd26efc1bbd612\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c45dec763a8421da7dd26efc1bbd612\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My point of order pertained to the longstanding ruling and Standing Order whereby a member\u2019s word, if questioned, should be honoured. I am not seeking to make a political point; I am asking for your assistance and simply for some consideration of this matter. There have been a number of occasions over the course of weeks where it was a matter of \u201Che said, she said\u201D. We members have contested, as the Prime Minister did, the accuracy of a statement\u2014or whatever. If I could finish\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022b31785d98a0d4668be37a113fb9741c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b31785d98a0d4668be37a113fb9741c6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have heard sufficient. The member is questioning my ruling, and he will resume his seat. The easiest thing in the world is to ask some questions that put a Minister under such pressure over the facts that if the Minister has been wrong in his or her answer, he or she is forced to correct it. That is the toughest way to deal with these things. It is not to make a political statement, then seek leave to table a document. I tell members to ask the tough questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223da91d36c6054841bed0f9f0eb4040ea\u0022\u003EAdventure Tourism Sector\u2014Findings of Safety Review\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d02ad8b61d58425a97010e5247ba7dd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d02ad8b61d58425a97010e5247ba7dd3\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: What were the findings of the adventure tourism review?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u00227a49a1de35ea43b090db2abb310acb3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a49a1de35ea43b090db2abb310acb3e\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Adventure tourism is a $3 billion industry; 850,000 tourists partake in some form of adventure activity each year. For the most part, safety practices are first rate, and operators take their responsibilities very seriously. They know that getting people home safely is a priority. Although the majority of operators are managing risks effectively, for some activities there are gaps in the safety management framework that could allow businesses to operate at a lower standard than industry experts consider acceptable. The review made a number of recommendations to provide assurance that the entire sector is operating as safely as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022703cc5452d9f4ac28c512cae768799dc\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What decisions has the Government made to improve safety in the adventure tourism sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f3d971235894c86899a177093ace578\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has accepted the review\u2019s primary recommendation and has agreed in principle to look at creating a registration scheme, with upfront safety audits based on the risks of a particular sector. By introducing a registration scheme, we will know exactly what commercial adventure activities are on offer, and all users, whether they are tourists or New Zealanders, can be assured that any associated risks are being managed. I have also asked the department to complete further work on other initiatives discussed in the report. The Tourism Industry Association has offered to work with us to progress these recommendations. Everyone in this industry wants to protect New Zealand\u2019s reputation from any perceptions that safety here is not up to scratch. Some adventure activities like mountaineering come with high risks. No law can prevent every accident from occurring, but we can offer assurance that every practical step is being taken to manage the risks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226c852f955cff4361bfaecb9ec7c6c624\u0022\u003EEnvironment Canterbury, Replacement of Councillors\u2014Views of Christchurch Householders\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u00226803af9598d54836bb33b21f1cb8781b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226803af9598d54836bb33b21f1cb8781b\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Why is he seeking the views of Christchurch households on the abolition of Environment Canterbury\u2019s elected councillors when this was done 5 months ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022db7d22e50b1b4fb6917b1250e25c6425\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db7d22e50b1b4fb6917b1250e25c6425\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Because I am interested in their views on what they see as the most topical issues from Environment Canterbury\u2019s directors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211c4a691557f4731a300f7ca3562f245\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: What is the cost of the pamphlet, and, given that taxpayers are funding it, are they better to return their answers to MPs who have always opposed the Environment Canterbury legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273139daa577e44abb94ac9839201a83e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Seeing it is paid out of the leader\u2019s budget, I have no ministerial responsibility for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ec358ff9158492eba31720a25d3bda0\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: When the Prime Minister tells Cantabrians in the pamphlet that they should be able to drink from their aquifers and swim and fish in their rivers, lakes, and streams, is that before or after the new irrigation schemes he wants in place in Canterbury next year\u2014before any new environmental controls can be put in place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022376fddbfaf2341f0a234dd128ee08697\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: We would like to see that as soon as possible. That is why we are doing something about the failure over the 19 years that Environment Canterbury had to get an operative water plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f67f1ea769e04eee998b0389c7d87752\u0022\u003EHon Jim Anderton\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister believe that the people of Canterbury would have felt more consulted if he had asked them how they felt about it before he fired the elected councillors of Environment Canterbury under parliamentary urgency, rather than asking them 5 months later?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb73ab99df3d4e4cb7e65da44ecf992a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I think that Cantabrians support the moves by the Government, and that is why over 55 percent of people in a recent poll gave that view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c181975457847ff93c4d131cb40846e\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the pamphlet from the Prime Minister sent to more than 100,000 Christchurch homes, which includes a question on new elections for Environment Canterbury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222372878eefd04cffb2279413995cef24\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b472cda3d52451a8e8d4f9e6ce1a5f9\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave for the Environment Canterbury (Democracy Restoration) Amendment Bill in my name to be introduced and set down as a members\u2019 order of the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022022e7b52679c4ac8b2c9c02ede598b05\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222bb662f7c3a74144916cfe8279729250\u0022\u003EQuestions to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002295abe4c44b534d7d975ca20e54f09d0f\u0022\u003ESale and Supply of Liquor and Liquor Enforcement Bill\u2014Report-back Date\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e78a98779e6c4848af4a2bf7a633e991\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Justice and Electoral Committee: When will the Sale and Supply of Liquor and Liquor Enforcement Bill be reported back to the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022707be422e7b24f7bbd4addfde595ca92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022707be422e7b24f7bbd4addfde595ca92\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (Chairperson of the Justice and Electoral Committee):\u003C/span\u003E The report back was postponed to allow for the publication of the Law Commission\u2019s paper Alcohol in our Lives: Curbing the Harm, which was available a year earlier than it would have been on the previous Government\u2019s time line. The committee is due to report to the House by 1 October 2010. The extension was supported by all parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cbcf48982c94a2baac3be41bf5066ad\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Did the committee resolve to make available the submissions on that bill in order to inform the development of the alcohol law reform package announced by the Government yesterday; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224be7925f33594fcc8ab471030ba7fcac\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This seems to be a matter for the committee, and is therefore not a matter for the chairperson. The bill has not been reported back, as we have heard, and therefore I do not believe the matter is within the Standing Orders for questioning in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d440e016c4aa4523b5d39af207c6ab50\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The regulatory impact statement on the alcohol law reform Cabinet paper, which has already been publicly released, states that the submissions on the bill were considered as part of the package, and I would like to know why. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f90b812cd400494ebf148c01270574f0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The chair is not responsible for that matter; it is a matter for the committee. In the House during oral questions to members, we can ask the chair only about matters that the chair is responsible for. The chair is not responsible for the decisions of the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022500c51b03aa245e88de3f22aa8d16f7d\u0022\u003ESale and Supply of Liquor and Liquor Enforcement Bill\u2014Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205894cf02daa4041ac5c34ddba0a3be5\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Justice and Electoral Committee: How many submissions did the committee both receive and hear on the Sale and Supply of Liquor and Liquor Enforcement Bill that related to the provisions for local alcohol plans and parental consent being required for supplying alcohol to under-18-year-olds?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00220ee866153c6d42c5a17acba7df181763\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ee866153c6d42c5a17acba7df181763\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (Chairperson of the Justice and Electoral Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Of the submissions received and heard by the committee, approximately 59 related to local alcohol plans, and approximately 35 related to parental consent for supplying alcohol to under-18-year-olds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e70ef9ff215449bd80e8f0cc653dc099\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Have the submitters been informed of the Government\u2019s intention to replace the bill altogether with its own bill; if not, why not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb38d5f0423445a0a4e072826fbedc64\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That would be a matter for the committee; it is not a matter for the chair. The Standing Orders on questions to members who are chairs of committees are very narrow. Questions can relate to matters such as when the bill will be reported back, but decisions of the committee are not matters for the chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229de615b8a6cb423f938a6357041e8227\u0022\u003ESale and Supply of Liquor and Liquor Enforcement Bill\u2014Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220aa5baa779db458293e3123f9060630b\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Justice and Electoral Committee: How many submissions did the committee both receive and hear on the Sale and Supply of Liquor and Liquor Enforcement Bill that related to the provisions to reduce the blood-alcohol content for young drivers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022614459ac724143e0b78df046f4409df7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022614459ac724143e0b78df046f4409df7\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (Chairperson of the Justice and Electoral Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Of the submissions received by the committee, 31 related to blood-alcohol content for young drivers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022085fc22dd74d444cb334caeb5df8984a\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Has the committee requested any reports from the Ministry of Transport on clause 56, introduced during the previous Labour Government\u2019s term, which prohibits drivers who are under the age of 20 and without a full licence from having any alcohol in their blood when driving? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad05229dc0c846969d3db64d8da9d4f2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is a matter for the committee; it is not a matter on which the chair can be questioned in the House. Members know that the Standing Orders on questions to members are very tight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022121a65059a9f4e33865fd4b52bd150fe\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002296509b7bcc4e45cdb5df90c3927b1f66\u0022\u003EPacific Economic Development Agency\u2014Calls for Bids for Funding\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa49958a3fd243e6bdcac1372290b38a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa49958a3fd243e6bdcac1372290b38a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a letter from Su\u2019a William Sio seeking to debate under Standing Order 380 the announcement from the Chief Executive of the Ministry of Pacific Island Affairs that a range of organisations will now be asked to bid for the $4.8 million that was specifically earmarked in this year\u2019s Budget for the Pacific Economic Development Agency. The announcement is a particular case of recent occurrence that involves ministerial responsibility. There must, however, be an element of urgency for a matter to take precedence over other business. The announcement today is part of a continuing process. Organisations have been asked to submit tenders, but no final decision has yet been made by the Government. I am not persuaded that the business of the House should be set aside today. The matter is one that can be considered over a longer time frame. The application is therefore declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022089d783764104f808cabd6ff0cb28469\u0022\u003EHolidays Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228023ffa30b0548bc983615d94838c8b4\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000325\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 19 August.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0611127a54d4364ac6789f92651514d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0611127a54d4364ac6789f92651514d\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party is opposed to the Holidays Amendment Bill, along with our opposition to the Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2), which passed its first reading last week. Together these bills represent a major attack on workers and their trade unions. Kate Wilkinson, the Minister of Labour, said in her opening speech in this debate that the Holidays Amendment Bill will \u201Cimprove the balance of fairness\u201D between employers and employees. The Green Party believes that the balance is being tipped strongly against workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWe can look at the various provisions of the bill to prove that assertion. For example, on the sick leave provision Kate Wilkinson said the proposal will allow employers to request proof of sickness for one day\u2019s absence \u201Cwithout first having reasonable grounds to suspect that the sick leave is not genuine.\u201D That is, she explicitly said an employer does not need reasonable grounds for doing so, and the employer can be, in effect, unreasonable and require a medical certificate for any reason, no matter how unreasonable that request is. It may be that the employer just wants to encourage workers to stay on the job even when they are sick, in order to keep up the numbers in the workforce. That would be an unreasonable approach, but it would be allowed under this amendment. It could be done to persecute a particular worker whom the employer happens to want to ease out of the workforce, not because the person is performing badly at work but perhaps because the person is more active than other workers in the union and is causing some upset to an anti-union employer because of their strong union advocacy. There are all sorts of unreasonable reasons that could be given for demanding a medical certificate for 1 day\u2019s absence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f303e38fbc534b358f8416bff5a00fee\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Or no reason. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8893edb59be480c9f663010665f3fce\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE\u003C/span\u003E: No reason has to be provided by the employer in that situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EAlready we had in the law, before this bill was introduced, a provision that an employer could demand a medical certificate for 1 day\u2019s absence where there were reasonable grounds for doing so. There would be reasonable grounds, clearly, where an employee had taken consecutive Mondays off and was being unreasonable, in the sense that he or she might not really be sick on those days. So there is already a provision to cover reasonable behaviour by employers and employees in dealing with this matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe result of asking for a medical certificate for 1 day\u2019s absence will be that workers will tend to stay at work even when they are sick, because they will not want to go through all the hassle of taking the day off, then having to go off to a doctor if they can get an appointment, etc. By staying on the job when they are sick, they will be likely to infect other workmates, and that can be a health problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThere are three problems with requiring employees to go to the doctor when they are sick for 1 day, perhaps with a stomach bug or cold. The first is that it is against good medical advice. The doctor does not want people to get out of bed, struggle through the cold and rain, and sit in the waiting room for an hour, because that only makes them sicker. Secondly, there is a problem in getting an appointment with a doctor. When the Green Party did a snap survey by phoning 40 doctors, only 12 of them could provide an appointment on that particular day, so that is a problem. Then the third problem is that when workers are sitting around in the waiting room, they spread sickness to the other patients unnecessarily if they have a temporary stomach bug or cold. This bill is a huge problem for workers, and it is a problem in terms of good employment relations and the process of working in the workplace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe second proposal in this bill provides the ability for workers and employers to arrange for the selling-off of the fourth week of workers\u2019 4 weeks of statutory holidays. Firstly, I ask what this says about our society. We are in a digital age, when the work process is becoming much more efficient. All sorts of labour-saving devices are available in terms of the production process, so surely we should be moving further towards a leisure society. It was 170 years ago that Samuel Parnell went on strike for the 8-hour day, and now many workers often work longer than 8 hours. Surely we can now have a decent level of annual leave, and everyone can take 4 weeks\u2019 annual leave. It is not as though we are ahead of the pack internationally on annual leave. I looked at some of the major countries in Europe and found that Germany has 6 weeks\u2019 annual leave, Italy has 5\u00BD weeks, France has 5 weeks, and Spain has 4\u00BD weeks, yet we have only 4 weeks. Why should we reduce that amount down to 3 weeks for some workers? Surely we should encourage everyone to take the full entitlement. It is good for people to do so in terms of their health, including their mental health, and it is also good for their families and their communities. It means that workers can engage in a whole lot of other activities outside the workforce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI will look at the people who are most likely to trade in their holidays. They are exactly the people who need the fourth week of holiday the most. They are generally poorer people, who will trade it in just for the money, even though they need a holiday. They are usually people from bigger families, and those people need the fourth week of holiday for family time. They are people who often happen to work long hours already\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292722995bec143edb7329cb88c4b1ad2\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: You could ask them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4df56293e544066880e8c8dd7a7f083\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot even hear myself think, because of the continuous interjections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267538876753c4ba1a506b71109cb494c\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has made a point about the interjections across the House. They should be rare and succinct; that is in Speakers\u2019 ruling 61/5, if members want to look at it. Especially when the member\u2019s seat is adjacent to those of other members who are interjecting, it is very difficult for the member to speak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b096874446d44ca787b0b2d84c6b24ec\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE\u003C/span\u003E: It is often people who already work very long hours, and who are more likely to work overtime, who will be pressured into selling the fourth week of their statutory holidays. Shift workers, who need that fourth week, will be pressured in that direction also. People who work in manual jobs, or who are stressed already, will be more likely to be forced to sell off their holidays, as will people who work in strenuous jobs and who need the fourth week of holidays. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIn non-unionised workplaces, even though selling the fourth week is supposed to be voluntary, employers will have a way of putting pressure on workers, and there will be an expectation that they will sell off their holidays. Once these holidays are sold off by a certain proportion of the workforce, there will be an expectation that in order for the work to continue in the way that the employers want, the remaining proportion of the workforce will be required, in effect, to sell off their fourth week of holidays. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EAnother problem in this bill is the provision to transfer one or another of the existing 11 statutory public holidays to another day. The argument is that perhaps it is more culturally or religiously appropriate to celebrate them on another day, for someone from a non-Christian religion, for example. But the great thing about us all having holidays in common, as at present, is that it enables families and communities to get together, and it means that those days are quiet days. We do not want to destroy a sense of community and family togetherness. If we are to allow for other religious holidays to be taken, perhaps it would be good to add to our number of statutory public holidays. We have only 11 of those days at the moment, and some other countries have more than that. Perhaps we could have one or two optional holidays, in addition to the present number of holidays. I might want to take St Patrick\u2019s Day as a holiday, as I am someone with a bit of Irish heritage. But any additional statutory holidays should not be at the expense of the existing statutory holidays that we all so value. We are not just puppets to be pushed around, in terms of what is required of us in the workforce. We should all have these entitlements. The Green Party is very much opposed to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022a64c92b863c54d0399e650c618d8a6a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a64c92b863c54d0399e650c618d8a6a8\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa i t\u0113nei ahiahi. It is interesting to be talking about the Holidays Amendment Bill when two members are absent from the House at this point in time. Compared with the other employment legislation that is being tabled today, this bill is relatively straightforward and non-contentious, but there are some fish-hooks in it that I hope the select committee process will pull up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe key option to exchange the fourth week of leave for cash has received a significant amount of media space in the last few weeks. Basically, the bill proposes to amend the Holidays Act, allowing employees and employers to agree to the employer paying out up to 1 week of an employee\u2019s minimum entitlement to annual holidays, at the employee\u2019s request. I state that today for those who are listening in to the debate, as the debate started some time ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThere is an important rider to this legislation, in that the maximum entitlement of leave that can be applied for is 1 week and it is just a request. Employers may have a policy that the employer does not have to consider the employee\u2019s request. Employers are expected, but not required, to consult employees when developing such a policy and they also have to advise any potential new employees of the policy, before they accept an offer of employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIt is good to see written into the bill, too, that employers are not allowed to encourage or pressure their workers to cash up their holidays. It is entirely up to the employee to initiate. It is an option, it might be available to some, but it is not intended to be used to coerce employees to sign up to something that they might never agree to. But I guess the key issue, when thinking about whether to pay out holiday entitlements, all comes back to the whole notion about work-life balance. Work-life balance is different for each and every one of us. I hazard a guess that for many of the people who inhabit the parliamentary complex it is a concept that sounds nice on paper, but is almost impossible to achieve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAll the research tells us that there is a consistent demand for greater workplace flexibility, in order that employees can balance their roles in the paid workforce with their other commitments and responsibilities. Other research tells us that when it comes to those other responsibilities, perhaps caring for dependants and older family members, M\u0101ori are very highly represented in the group of carers, volunteers, who provide the fuel to keep our communities afloat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe demanding and never-relenting call to meet one\u2019s obligations and responsibilities has come at a considerable cost. In a 2008 study conducted by Fiona Te Momo, she reported on the work-life balance for M\u0101ori academic women and noted the rise in cultural responsibilities for this group. She said: \u201CMy M\u0101ori women colleagues frequently describe being so overcome with work responsibilities that they are unable to balance their lives \u2026 they continue to place one foot behind the other to move forward in order to survive in academic life\u201D. We will be particularly looking to hear from M\u0101ori women, from M\u0101ori workers, from wh\u0101nau, and from the r\u016Bnanga of M\u0101ori unionists to know whether this bill will have a positive effect in terms of providing workers with genuine choice about the way they work, enabling better work-life balance between the time and energy they commit to paid work and other responsibilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EParliament has to be concerned that a significant portion of the total workforce are working 50-plus hours per week. We know, too, that employees in particular industries and occupations are at greater risk of working longer hours, and that, again, M\u0101ori are overrepresented in the group most at risk of working long hours without a break. It comes back to the fundamental question of the role of work, in the midst of all the other activities that one fits into a day, such as community activities and caring for others, let alone leisure pursuits. It makes plain sense that any initiative that can help to achieve a better work-life balance will reap rewards, for wh\u0101nau, who can see each other far more frequently, at dawn or dusk, and will also help businesses to increase productivity, address skill shortages, and retain staff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWill the bill benefit M\u0101ori? Potentially, yes. Being able to choose to cash in a week\u2019s holiday might just help to ease the financial pressure, either to take the lump sum for a full week at one time, or spread it out and make more than one request during the entitlement year. It might therefore help to contribute to the everyday survival of wh\u0101nau. But there are some other hooks that need to be scrutinised carefully at the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAs a result of this bill, employers and employees will be able to agree to transfer the observance of public holidays on to another identified working day. That might work for many of our special days that wh\u0101nau observe throughout the motu, such as the days of particular tribal significance that wh\u0101nau members often have to take annual leave for. But there would be a question in my mind about the power dynamics in the relationship between employers and employees. For instance, could it be foreseen that an employer might exert pressure on a workforce to force workers not to observe Waitangi Day as a day of national significance? I am sure I read in the bill\u2019s small print that when it comes down to a dispute, and if agreement cannot be reached, employers will be able to decide when an alternative holiday will be taken. That is an issue I hope is taken up with a vengeance at the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe other issue we hope to see clarified is that employers are now able to request proof of sickness or injury within 3 consecutive days of an employee taking sick leave. The employer will have to cover the employee\u2019s reasonable costs in obtaining this proof, such as paying for the doctor, but we have some questions around how that will impact on the goodwill between employers and employees. At this stage the M\u0101ori Party will enable this bill to be exposed to the rigour of public scrutiny, and we look forward to the debate that may well happen as the bill moves through the various stages. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u00228e8911cdb2634171975ebdf8f06e4b45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e8911cdb2634171975ebdf8f06e4b45\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It will come as no surprise that we in Labour are opposed to the Holidays Amendment Bill. This week is yet another week of shame for the National Government. It is always bad, but it is going from bad to worse. This bill is absolutely shocking. The Minister of Labour should hang her head in shame about the stuff she is bringing to this House. She is doing it aided and abetted by her National Party colleagues. I have to say I am very disappointed in the M\u0101ori Party for supporting this bill. I wonder whether the previous speaker, Te Ururoa Flavell, was speaking from a personal perspective or whether the whole caucus is taking that position. Time will tell, when we see its votes come in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThis bill is another attack, yet again, on workers\u2019 rights in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6b87a18a08e466d90139c0229d847ca\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: What nonsense!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022255d65716bb847a6ae5a62d408e4a62d\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: The member says: \u201COh, nonsense!\u201D, but that is what that Minister\u2019s policies are all about. I can speak on this bill from two perspectives, as somebody who has worked at the coalface. First, as a former union official, I know and certainly acknowledge there are many good employers out there in New Zealand. But for those employers who are not reasonable, this bill will be another way to deal to their workers. Second, as a former nurse, from a health perspective this bill does not make sense. We can work on the basis that there are many good employers out there who will not utilise the provisions of this bill, and just focus on the employers who will take this advantage. The Council of Trade Unions has talked about those employers quite openly with the examples it has given. I shall focus on the bad employers and how they will use these provisions against their workers and against the health of their workforce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI deal first with the provision to allow the paying out of up to 1 week\u2019s annual leave. When we look at other countries that have handled the recession in a far better way, that have looked at job creation, that have looked for support, and that have looked at workers\u2019 acquiring skills and therefore upskilling in their jobs and remained in employment, we see that it is a very sad situation that this National Government is bereft of those ideas. It is so entrenched in the 1990s and in the way that the former National Government did things. National does not put money into innovation and development. It does not do anything to create jobs or allow people to progress in their jobs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d72fad77c6404768be52b1262b675197\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: You mean, letting people please themselves?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cec14fa718204ece9f4b0d44fbc84677\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but instead starts trying to cut wages and conditions. That is the mantra from this Government. The member chants the mantra as I speak. This Government is backward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003ELet us look at the provision of 4 weeks\u2019 annual holiday. Every worker in New Zealand should have 4 weeks\u2019 holiday. This Government should be committed to families and to people spending more time with their families, because we all know that in these times workers are working longer hours and that means less time for leisure, less time for rest, less time for recreation, and less time for spending with their families and with their children. We have a situation where employees who are perhaps in a difficult situation financially will be forced to sell that week\u2019s holiday, instead of the country having growing wages, a growing economy, and fair wages and conditions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EIn the former National Government we saw workers in exactly the same position under Max Bradford. The only difference was that it was 3 weeks\u2019 holiday then, because the previous Labour Government had not legislated for an extra week\u2019s holiday. That extra week\u2019s holiday was opposed strongly by the National Opposition of the time. This is cutting it down to 3 weeks by stealth for workers who are vulnerable or so lowly paid that they are unable to retain that fourth week. I say quite clearly that although the bill states that it will be by negotiation, we all know that in certain situations, with unscrupulous employers where that power relationship is different, some workers will be forced to give that week up. We all know that, and this bill will deliver that to those employers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI move on to the ludicrous situation of employers having the ability to demand of employees a sick certificate after only 1 day\u2019s sickness. What is so totally ridiculous is that no reasonable grounds are required. This is, again, carte blanche from the National Party\u2014\u201CEmployers, just do as you want.\u201D It is ludicrous. If we look at times of sickness, and I speak from a nurse\u2019s perspective, if people have the flu or a dreadful tummy bug, it is often impossible for them to get out of bed and go to the doctor, for the doctor to say: \u201CYes, you are sick and you should stay home and rest.\u201D It may be that people do not have transport, so they may have the flu, a tummy bug, or whatever, and they not only have to go to the doctor but also have to get on a bus or train to go to the doctor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EIf their child is sick, what will happen? If they use their sick leave to stay at home and care for their sick child, what are they expected to do? Are they expected to bundle that child up and take that child to the doctor, so the doctor can say: \u201CYes, I confirm that your child is sick.\u201D It is absolutely ludicrous, and it is at a time when we know that employment relationships should be based on trust. With sick leave, some employers\u2014and there are many good ones\u2014think it is just dreadful to lose that productivity for a day. We are talking about an average of 5 days sick leave a year for most employees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222994862afa03486d91bcdbff5587faed\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: About 8 weeks in terms of Chris Carter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022440044e2452a4725918e1006fbd5e6d0\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I tell the member that I have met workers who have gone for 30 years and have not had 1 day\u2019s sick leave. I really applaud those workers, and think that is extraordinary. Tau Henare is chipping in. He has been able to have sick leave, and no one was more concerned than we were when he was away sick from work\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e88490789e64c88bb2e9ac30fcdd4cc\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: His pay didn\u2019t get docked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f07715b8381941ed80733aa1e5bce88f\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: It certainly was not. He was entitled to have the sick leave that was required for him to recuperate and come back to this Parliament in the good health that we see him today, and probably a few kilos lighter. That will probably help his recuperation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022111c615256ba43cb9f116a572c7785fc\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: And smoke-free.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022021b2289004a4031928a3da86d14117d\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: And smoke-free! But many employees in New Zealand do not have those rights\u2014and they should not be privileges; they should be rights. For those workers it is absolutely unacceptable that they are required to go to the doctor to have their illness confirmed when it is detrimental to their health to get out of bed to go to the doctor. That is how ludicrous this silly, silly Government is. If people are sick and go to the doctor, the chances are the doctor will err on the side of caution and say: \u201CI can see very clearly you\u2019re sick. You\u2019ve come out in the cold, you\u2019re looking really miserable. I\u2019m going to give you a week off work.\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThat person may not need a week off work. Anyone who has any common sense, particularly anyone who has a background in health\u2014I do not know why Jonathan Coleman has not taken a call to say that this bill is silly\u2014will say that when we have a minor illness, we do not need medication, we do not need to go to the doctor to have it confirmed we are sick, and we do not need to go out in the cold; we need to stay in bed and rest. This bill avoids that from happening. It means that people have to go through the scenario of having it confirmed they are sick for 1 day, without the employer having reasonable grounds to make that request. People who have an unblemished work record may come down with the flu, so they ring in sick, but they are told\u2014again, with no redress\u2014that work requires them to go to a doctor to get that confirmed. If they do not get it confirmed, what happens? I will tell the House. They will be liable for disciplinary action because they have not complied with what is required of them. This bill is an absolute ass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f881bf9b312d432aa3f360ebed354db8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f881bf9b312d432aa3f360ebed354db8\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I will be quick smart. The dragons across the House love to tell workers what to do. But whose week is it, whose holiday is it? It is theirs\u2014the workers\u2019 holiday. Do workers get a chance to trade it for cash, or to maybe even\u2014how is this\u2014take a holiday? Not under the Labour manual, not under the left\u2019s manual. It is all about telling workers what to do. It is all about telling workers how many days off they are allowed. It is all about telling workers \u201CNo, you\u2019re not allowed to trade your holiday for a bit of cash.\u201D Well, I can tell those members across the House that, at the end of the day, workers will be lining up for this\u2014they will be lining up for this. They will want to trade their measly little week off for a bit of extra cash. It will be a great day when that happens. Do members know why? Because the decisions will be made by workers and not by Labour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003ELet me remind the House that Labour is full of chardonnay socialists. They say \u201CNo, worker, no, worker, you\u2019re not allowed to do this.\u201D, but on the other hand they give one of their mates 8 weeks off for feeling a bit under the weather! That member can take 8 weeks off work. What did those members do? They told him to go; they said to take 8 weeks off. But the worker is not allowed to trade one of their days. In fact, members opposite say to the worker: \u201CHow about a medical certificate?\u201D. They baulk at workers having to provide medical certificates for 1 day\u2019s leave but where is the medical certificate for Chris Carter? Where is the medical certificate for Chris Carter? Not one of those members is answering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220919372e9eb04439824e8ad16243a163\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: Where was yours?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243dcccd52f414dee9fcee282935afef0\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Where is mine? The nursing staff at Auckland City Hospital were absolutely great. There is my record of service at Auckland City Hospital. That is my evidence. It was not a bit of indigestion; it was a real heart attack\u2014a real doozy, 60-odd days ago. Before I finish, I tell members that I am still smoke-free.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u00224306c77f57d84d2680bfc28abb571eb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224306c77f57d84d2680bfc28abb571eb9\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Henare has just demonstrated why he carries the mantle of the worst union organiser in the history of the universe\u2014in the history of the universe. I know he wears that mantle with pride. His speech showed everything that is wrong with the current National Government. He just does not get it. If he asked workers whether they would like to be allowed to keep their 4 weeks\u2019 annual leave and be able to afford to pay the bills, he would hear that that would be their preference. Tau Henare has the gall to get up in this House and brag about the fact that this National Government has made it so hard for hard-working Kiwi families to pay their bills. It will be harder when the rate of GST goes up in October and when the inflation rate hits nearly 6 percent, as Treasury says it will. Well, I tell Mr Henare that he should not be proud of the fact that workers feel that they have to cash in a week of their holidays in order to be able to pay the bills. There is nothing to be proud of when workers have no choice but to trade in holidays\u2014time with their families, time with their friends, time to recharge so that they can be more productive in the workplace\u2014because they cannot afford to pay the bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe tax cuts that Mr Henare\u2019s National Government recently passed do not benefit the average working family; they benefit, overwhelmingly, the top 5 percent of income earners. In this debate, we are not talking about those people who will benefit most from the tax cuts; we are talking about the average working families who will get all of the cost increases. In a desperate attempt to deflect any kind of criticism about that, the great answer from the National Government is that workers can cash in a week\u2019s holiday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI think we need to come back to the really fundamental point of why we have annual holidays. Why do we have them? There is absolute silence from National members\u2014absolute silence. We have them because we realise that people need downtime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f0ec81f60024eeda1d080f068e22274\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, sorry!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d52be2329da42d0aef9e3444a5df010\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, now they are pretending that they were not listening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d17546757feb4ea8a5d566e35648d2d2\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Never repeat a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225be317c7abb646699ede2f4150e7542f\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Mr Brownlee that I can repeat my question, but I guarantee that he will not answer it. In fact, he would probably pass it off to Bill English, because, apparently, the Minister for Economic Development does not have to answer questions about economic development anymore. I ask why he is paid quarter of a million dollars a year when he will not set milestones for economic development or answer questions on economic development. That is a question that the voters of New Zealand will have to answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EWe need to ask why we have annual leave. We have annual leave because we recognise that it is crucial for productivity in the workplace. Workers need to be rested. They need time with their families. They need time with their children. Countries around the world have recognised those reasons in far greater measure, and they have greater annual leave entitlements than New Zealand has. We had to fight very hard to get a fourth week of annual leave. So we must agree that annual leave has value in terms of productivity in the workplace, and the health and well-being of our families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EJohn Key said that long hours at work, having both parents in employment, childcare shortages, growing interest rates, and rising bills can create a far from ideal environment for good parenting and healthy family relationships. If the Prime Minister thought that a couple of years ago, then why he does now think those healthy family relationships and those relationships with children are less important, when, because his own actions, childcare shortages are increasing? The cost of childcare will increase because of the Government\u2019s cuts. Interest rates will grow. The cost of living is increasing. Household bills are rising. All the things the Prime Minister talked about 2 years ago are far worse under this Government. I ask why he now thinks that time away from work is no longer important for good parenting and for healthy family relationships. Everyone knows that it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe reality is that this legislation is a smokescreen. Our workers need decent wages. Then they would not feel as though they have to cash in 1 week\u2019s annual leave because they cannot put food on the table or a roof over their children\u2019s heads. That is not a choice, but this Government says that this is about choice. National members need to get out into the real world and talk to people who have no choice. The Minister of Labour can sit in her ivory tower in Wellington and say that this is about choice and workers being allowed to decide between annual leave and the money\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022084860174b2c4c8b966a9331bb76bf85\u0022\u003EHon Kate Wilkinson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s voluntary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3af785208764711b20f2aa95b370ab8\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is not voluntary. If people are living day to day on the breadline, if they are running the risk of losing their homes, if they cannot put food on the table, then it is not a choice. It is not a choice. This Government has never understood that fact when it comes to industrial relations, because its members have always had choices. They have always had choices, so they believe that everyone else must have the same choices that they have. As I said, they need to get out into the real world and talk to people who do not have the choice. Workers will not want to cash in their annual leave; they will do it because economically they have no other choice, and because this Government has abandoned them. This Government did not give them significant tax cuts. Someone on the minimum wage will get only $3 a week. That will be more than swallowed up by the increase in GST, let alone inflation, rent, and all the other cost increases that have come under this Government\u2019s watch. Yet the Minister of Labour says that those people have choices. Well, the Minister needs to get out and talk to a few more people. I very, very strongly feel that she does not know what she is talking about in this regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that the Government says that this measure is voluntary and that it cannot be a condition of employment. Well, that is exactly what the Minister said about the 90-day trial period legislation, which says that just because an employer does not like a worker, the employer can get rid of the worker even if that person is doing a fantastic job. That bill has legitimised discrimination in the workplace\u2014that is all it has done. Trial periods have always been in New Zealand law. The only thing that this Government has done in respect of trial periods is say that employers can now get rid of employees for being pregnant, for being gay, or for a number of other reasons. As long as employers do not give a reason to employees, they cannot complain about it. The Minister said that that provision would be voluntary, just as she is saying that this provision is voluntary. In respect of the 90-day trial period, employers were actually advertising jobs by saying that employees had to agree to a trial period to take the job. The Minister said that the choice was to have a job or not to have a job. That is not choice, I say to the Minister, just as this is not a choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI would like to know from the next National speaker how the Government will guarantee that this will not be used as a condition of employment. We know what will happen. It will be used in lieu of a wage increase. There will not be a wage increase. Instead, employees will be told that they will get their fourth week of annual leave cashed up or nothing. That is what they will be told. We know that will happen. The Minister knows that will happen. She does not care. She will stand up and go on about how this provision is all about choice when she knows that it is not about choice, and when she knows that it will only drive wages down further and make workplaces less productive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EAs it is, we work our workers to the bone. Our workers work really, really hard for the money they earn. They do not earn a lot of money, and under this Government they expect to earn even less. We are falling further and further behind Australia, which this Government used to hold up as the promised land that we were going to catch up to. Well, the Australian public knows that undermining workers\u2019 rights and entitlements does not lead to productivity and does not lead to wealth. The Howard Government was kicked out when it brought in work choices, because workers knew the value of those entitlements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8042947d2204a12971fdfbe9c7c12bb\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s why they embraced Labor last weekend. They just reached out and loved them to bits\u2014unbelievable! What an incredibly trite analysis that is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e0164e9fb6c4ba3a54474b49edbfbe2\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: That is why the current Liberal Party, I say to Mr Brownlee, has not said that it will bring back the work choices policy; it knows how unpopular it was. The Liberal Party said that it would not bring back that policy, because the Australian public spoke very strongly about it. They knew the value of those entitlements for their families and for their workplaces.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EMy colleague Lynne Pillay talked about the new requirements for sick leave. Under the current law, employers can require a medical certificate for sick leave. If employers have reasonable grounds to believe that someone is rorting the system or is not actually sick, they can require a medical certificate. That seems fair enough if there are reasonable grounds. As with a lot of things that this Government does, all it is doing is removing reasonable grounds. Under this legislation, an employer can require a medical certificate on unreasonable grounds or on utterly ridiculous grounds; in fact, any grounds whatsoever can be grounds for a medical certificate. If employees do not get the certificate, they can face disciplinary action. Does the Minister know how hard it is to see a general practitioner in winter? It is even harder now that they are all leaving under this Government\u2019s watch because it is far too difficult and because the Government is unwinding primary health organisations. But for workers to face disciplinary action because they cannot see a doctor, when they should just be at home in bed getting well and not going to work and making everyone else sick, shows how illogical this legislation is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022bed1475df9f54b729d4aceef5fd077c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bed1475df9f54b729d4aceef5fd077c9\u0022\u003EHon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E We should be very clear in this House exactly what Labour is saying to workers. They are saying to workers that they are not able to make up their own minds, that they are not smart enough, that they are not intelligent enough to be able to make up their minds so Labour will do if for them. Labour is saying very clearly that average workers cannot be trusted to make up their own minds as to whether to take a week\u2019s holiday or take pay in lieu. Labour says that Big Brother knows best and that no, workers cannot be trusted to make the right decision for themselves and that Uncle Phil or Uncle Trevor knows best. If we cut everything else away, that is essentially what Labour is saying. It is saying to workers who might be $600 or $700 in arrears on their mortgage that they cannot clean up that debt by taking pay in lieu, but that they should go on holiday and get further in debt. That is essentially what Labour is saying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003EThe truth is that as far as Labour is concerned we have two classes of citizens in New Zealand, not because the Government is not doing enough for the less well-off but because Labour wants to deny them that choice. The Holidays Amendment Bill is about giving average New Zealanders that choice. Labour wants to deny their right to make their own decisions and their own choices. It wants to destroy that incentive for workers to get ahead, and that would subject them to political abuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9f9c120cf6c461b8857f79ad5996e2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9f9c120cf6c461b8857f79ad5996e2f\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I also want to comment on the aspect of the Holidays Amendment Bill relating to the ability of employees to request that a portion of their annual leave be paid out in cash. I listened very carefully to the chorus of disgust from my friends on the other side of the House, in particular Lynne Pillay and Moana Mackey who, as we know, are at odds with the leader of the Labour Party who thought that the policy was pretty reasonable as long as employees entered into the arrangement willingly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWe well know what the unions think of this policy simply because a National Government brought it in, but I have a recollection of unions taking quite a different view in the past. I am sure that my colleague Tau Henare will remember that if one goes back to the award negotiations of the late 1980s, a good number of the agreements registered with the Department of Labour provided for staff to receive a fourth week\u2019s holiday\u2014usually a reward for longevity of service of around 5 years or so. It was also very common for those agreements to contain a provision for the fourth week to be paid out in cash. Why? It was because not only did the unions accept at that time that it was OK to trade the fourth week but on many occasions they actually asked for it. Unions asked for the fourth week to be traded in for cash. So it was OK in the 1980s but now it is a hanging offence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI ask members to spot the difference, because I cannot. The only difference I can see is that a National Government thought of it, and for that reason Labour will oppose the bill vociferously. That is a shame because it is a very sensible measure and I look forward to hearing more about it in the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229896cadb539e4a7a902038e76f8d41de\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Holidays Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 69\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5159fe5aa7e4c008cd1d6eeb1b002bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5159fe5aa7e4c008cd1d6eeb1b002bb\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee consider the bill, that the committee report finally to the House on or before 5 November 2010, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), and during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, and to meet outside the Wellington area during a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 187, 189(a), and 190(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a05a380eb8b4041ae98d72b6b0b50b3\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a76a989a83a843889a1bf1f38bcfcafc\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdb60e2123a44cd5b01e9a55cd7155a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdb60e2123a44cd5b01e9a55cd7155a5\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That urgency be accorded the passing through their remaining stages of the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill, the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill, and the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill; the first readings of the Legal Services Bill, the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill, and the Insolvency Practitioners Bill; the passing through their remaining stages of the Limitation Bill, the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill, the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill, the Privacy (Cross-border Information) Amendment Bill, the Trade Marks (International Treaties and Enforcement) Amendment Bill, and the Human Assisted Reproductive Technology (Storage) Amendment Bill, and any bills into which any of those bills may be divided; the first reading of the Lawyers and Conveyancers Amendment Bill; the second reading of the Antarctica (Environmental Protection: Liability Annex) Amendment Bill; and the second reading and remaining stages of the Inquiries Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EUrgency is being moved in order to gain extra sitting hours so that the House might be able to deal with a range of Government business where there is essentially quite a large amount of support from other parties in the House, beyond those that are just part of the Government confidence and supply arrangements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EPeriodically the Order Paper will be crammed up with legislative requirements that the wider number of people in the House can support. In the end the orderly function of the House is assisted, as the year progresses, by occasionally having an extension of hours. I point to Government notice of motion No. 2 on the Order Paper where there has been an expression of desire by the Government to get more hours. I accept that for Opposition parties granting the extension of hours is quite an extraordinary thing. So we have developed a practice in this Parliament of notifying well in advance of when we intend to take urgency for this type of motion\u2014a motion that has a number of bills well supported. How far we get through that motion is a matter for discussion. With those brief explanations, I put the motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u00227fb3907ac2974647be9f5443d4636234\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227fb3907ac2974647be9f5443d4636234\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Sorry, I apologise to the Leader of the House if I missed this: did he confirm that we would be having question time each day?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a9a3613b91142f9a2abd29750b2916b\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: It comes after.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d6790be37734bcd9626698fdf125143\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002216af72285a574597934cf6972bd16974\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That urgency be accorded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 69\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221129f38fefa34117890d342372b1a239\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224db1c6b451824b8480071d553359326e\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00227262269826214f63b91545bde58e659c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227262269826214f63b91545bde58e659c\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for there to be a question time at 2 p.m. on Wednesday, 25 August, and on Thursday, 26 August, and for questions to be lodged in the normal manner pursuant to Standing Order 372, notwithstanding that the House is sitting under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc3763bdf7994aa6b9d506b871fbccd0\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225aaa5820667a40009d770a6cf3ecec9c\u0022\u003ETariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002246c261c02e6c4c94b0ac6897fd4f2c1c\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u00226caad7988dbe4cb390a28ecf6b4adc7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226caad7988dbe4cb390a28ecf6b4adc7c\u0022\u003EHon JOHN CARTER (Minister of Civil Defence) on behalf of the Minister of Trade:\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. I thank the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee for its consideration of the bill and for reporting the bill back to the House. The committee\u2019s recommendation is that the bill be passed with no amendments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EAs the committee noted in its report, the closer economic partnership\u2014CEP\u2014with Hong Kong will provide an important trading platform for building trade with the wider China market and, indeed, throughout the Asian region. New Zealand\u2019s economic future points increasingly towards this vibrant region. The linkages through our high-quality trade agreements are increasing the opportunities for business. In the first year following entry into force of the China free-trade agreement, the increase in New Zealand exports to China was NZ$1.1 billion. China is now our second-largest export market and our second-largest overall trading partner. Through the closer economic partnership with Hong Kong we are hopeful that this growth will continue, and that the closer economic partnership will also facilitate the growing provision of New Zealand goods and services throughout the wider region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EUnlike New Zealand\u2019s other concluded trade agreements, the closer economic partnership that we have negotiated with Hong Kong is not primarily about tariff barriers. The fact is that New Zealand and Hong Kong already have two of the most open economies in the world. Given the relatively low levels of tariff barriers between our economies\u2014at zero in the case of Hong Kong\u2014this agreement will secure New Zealand\u2019s position in the Hong Kong market and underpin Hong Kong as a trading platform for our exporters into the wider region. We want to make it easier for New Zealand companies to do business in and through Hong Kong. This closer economic partnership will encourage New Zealand companies to integrate into global supply chains, because that is crucial to our future prosperity as a trading nation. Hong Kong\u2019s location, its knowledge of China, and its links into the mainland position it perfectly for New Zealand\u2019s rapidly expanding trade with China and the wider North Asia region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EIncreasingly, New Zealand\u2019s trade agreements acknowledge the importance of global supply chains. As with previous free-trade agreements that New Zealand has entered into, the rules of origin negotiated in the closer economic partnership will allow Hong Kong and New Zealand companies to make greater use of each other\u2019s products in manufacturing. The closer economic partnership will also help to secure access into Hong Kong for New Zealand\u2019s service suppliers into the future. As identified by the select committee report, the ratchet clause means that any future unilateral liberalisation by Hong Kong in certain sectors will be applied for the benefit of New Zealand services exporters. A most favoured nation clause will future-proof the access into Hong Kong of our services exporters, by enabling them to benefit from the same treatment that other countries negotiate with Hong Kong in the future in key sectors of interest to New Zealand. It is a significant commitment that this is the first free-trade agreement that Hong Kong has signed outside mainland China. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EConsistent with our existing approach to free-trade agreements New Zealand has been careful to ensure that the removal of our remaining tariffs is phased out over time, to allow for the affected industries to adapt to the new settings. For the closer economic partnership this phasing has been deliberately matched to the phase-out delivered under the China free-trade agreement, which means that there is unlikely to be any additional material impact on New Zealand companies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe Green Party, in its minority view included in the select committee report on the bill, has questioned the balance of consultation around the free-trade agreement, commenting that there is bias towards exporting interests. The opportunity to make submissions, request meetings, and attend briefing sessions was open to all businesses, sectors, and stakeholders. The national interest analysis also cites specific consultations about tariff reduction and rules of origin. These were conducted by Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade and Ministry of Economic Development officials to assess industry views on tariff reduction in respect of potential free-trade agreements, including that with Hong Kong. There was, in addition, a series of consultations with Textiles New Zealand and a range of clothing manufacturers specifically in relation to Hong Kong. Consultations were also held with the Employers and Manufacturers Association, which is the key representative body for the manufacturing sector, and it included the Hong Kong negotiations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EIn respect of investment, the select committee report acknowledges that the investment screening regime in New Zealand will continue to apply to prospective investors from Hong Kong. Quite simply, the outcome of the closer economic partnership will not materially alter the way in which the overseas investment screening regime applies to investors from Hong Kong or exempt them from any aspect of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe minority view in the report of the select committee expressed by the Green Party questioned the basis upon which the Government rests its commitment to trade liberalisation. That commitment rests on a conviction that export growth is critical to New Zealand\u2019s overall economic performance. The Government\u2019s full agenda of trade negotiations in the Asia-Pacific region is central to this strategy and places us at the heart of the world\u2019s economic growth engine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThis bill will amend the Tariff of New Zealand by inserting Hong Kong, China, and a list of preferential countries in note 3 of the Tariff. This is the only statutory amendment required to give effect to the closer economic partnership. Following this amendment, certain amendments by regulation will also be required in order to enable the application of preferential tariff rates under the closer economic partnership. The Government would like to see the bill enacted by October so that New Zealand can be ready to bring the closer economic partnership into force, therefore ensuring that New Zealand business can benefit from this agreement as soon as Hong Kong has also completed all of its internal procedures. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8a771b964b747c49258fedc7d2bb437\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8a771b964b747c49258fedc7d2bb437\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on the second reading of the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill, which will put in place the free-trade agreement with Hong Kong. The Minister of Trade has, elsewhere, noted that the benefits of this free-trade agreement with Hong Kong\u2014or closer economic partnership, as we are calling it\u2014have many aspects to them. He has said previously that this closer economic partnership complements our free-trade agreement with China, and there is no doubt that it does. In fact, when I finished my speech on the first reading of this bill I was at the point of saying that this closer economic partnership agreement rationalises and allows businesses to springboard between Hong Kong and China. New Zealand businesses will be better able to move seamlessly between Hong Kong and China with their trade and business arrangements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe Minister who presented the first speech on the second reading, the Hon John Carter, referred to the fact that this closer economic partnership breaks new ground for Hong Kong. It is the first agreement of this type outside its agreement with Mainland China. For New Zealand, it adds to a growing list of free-trade agreements that are both high-quality and comprehensive. But it is worth noting that the novelty of this closer economic partnership was the item that took the media\u2019s attention when, at the time of signing at the end of March earlier this year, the media reported this new free-trade deal. They said that New Zealand and Hong Kong signed a free-trade deal\u2014the city\u2019s first outside China. Clearly, Hong Kong is looking at it as a model and as a template for other such agreements, and that is good. Hopefully it is of benefit to them. For us, there is a whole panoply of new, high-quality free-trade agreements that we have achieved over the years, between successive Governments, I might add, as I do not think there is yet one free-trade agreement that has been signed by this National Government that began with it; they all began with the Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI draw attention to a couple of points, and one that is particularly apposite is the trade in services. Usually we are accustomed to looking at tariff reductions and trade in commodities, but the trade in services is of real benefit to New Zealand. The securing of access should allow a whole range of services to maximise trade with Hong Kong. First, the closer economic partnership protects existing access for services. It is good to have that cemented in, but it is simply the status quo. The agreement goes on to talk quite comprehensively about the range of services now covered by this closer economic partnership such as professional services, business services, education, construction and engineering, logistics, air services, environmental services, computer and related services, tourism, sporting and other recreational services, and so on. The list is expansive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EOne of the most exciting things about this closer economic partnership is the ability of New Zealand to trade on its strengths not just in commodities but in the provision of high-quality services. It is something that will become increasingly important if we are to improve the economic status and wealth of this country. We need to look further to the exporting of services and look past the exporting of commodities alone. So trade in services is significant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe second point I draw attention to is noted in the national interest analysis. We have labour and environment agreements as part of this closer economic partnership. For a long time\u2014certainly for the last 10 years, anyway\u2014we have insisted on labour and environment clauses first of all being attached to our free-trade agreements, but, more latterly, becoming integral parts of our free-trade agreements, and that is a good thing. The national interest analysis states that the New Zealand study on the benefits of a closer economic partnership between New Zealand and Hong Kong identified sustainable development as a core national objective for both economies. I think we are getting to the stage with trade agreements where they cannot be seen in isolation. Trade agreements impact upon, and are impacted by, labour standards. They impact upon, and are impacted by, climate change agreements, and by emissions trading schemes and global efforts to reduce the carbon footprints of industry, in particular. The fact that this agreement identifies sustainable development as a core national objective for both economies may come as news to some members of the National Party, but it is an important and forward-looking element inside this closer economic partnership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe labour memorandum of understanding and the environment agreement provide an opportunity for New Zealand to seek input from non-governmental sectors in identifying and developing potential areas for cooperation. If there are areas where we can cooperate with Hong Kong over labour standards\u2014they may be health and safety standards, they may be more than that, they may be to do with income levels\u2014or if we can assist with environmental protections and production of goods and delivery of services in a way that minimises the emissions impact of those commodities and services, then both economies and, even in a very small way, the world, the global environment, are enhanced. These things are now no longer simply clip-on elements. An agreement about labour standards and an agreement about environmental standards have become an integral part not only of this closer economic partnership but of other free-trade agreements. This is the way for the world to move forward. Free-trade agreements can be used for more than simply free trade. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u002244074af7362b4fdc917f84837e2c2013\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244074af7362b4fdc917f84837e2c2013\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E I suggest that we on this side of the House did not find it surprising, at all, that this bill referred to sustainable development and the importance of having sustainable economies. In fact, this bill had its gestation in 2001, but it hit the wall in 2002 when the Government of the day\u2014I think they might have been people from the other side of the House\u2014decided to abort the dialogue between New Zealand and Hong Kong. It was only in 2009, when we had a new Prime Minister, the very active, non-bogged-down-in-process John Key, who engaged in dialogue with his counterpart in Hong Kong, David Tsang, that at a meeting in Singapore, effectively, this agreement was concluded. It will bring huge benefit to every New Zealander, and particularly to all the exporters in the Wairarapa electorate that I represent. For 9 years we sat here\u20149 years of frustration\u2014while that Government took no action, at all. But\u2014hello\u2014John Key, our very excellent Prime Minister, has been given the opportunity to drive this country ahead, and that is what he has done. If we look at the record of that previous Labour Government through 9 long years, we see that it lifted our wages in this country by a magnificent 3 percent in real terms\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7965952174643d89932e03dc0e8b623\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Is that all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf67197bdfe243689d8c4bdda6316cda\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: \u20143 percent in real terms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c56c3b6ed4f4c12acae9ca267342688\u0022\u003EHon Phil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: Each year\u2014it must be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224393d66bed8e4376a37a5271f61c8e83\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, not each year\u20143 percent in 9 years. There was a 3 percent increase in GDP in 9 long years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200636017bb664e3a9cb571af0d9de202\u0022\u003EHon Phil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a third a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3e754e6bd43454ca1a75f6d03828e18\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: That is dead right. But I draw this country\u2019s attention, and particularly the attention of that party, to the activities of John Key in 18 months. He has lifted real wages in this economy by 8.7 percent in the last 18 months. How has he done that? He has done it by refusing to get bogged down in process and arguments, and he has driven this country forward in a very practical way. This bill is a part of that process. This bill will boost innovation, and it will improve export access to world markets, which is one of the National Government\u2019s six policy drivers for a step change in our economic performance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThe agreement with Hong Kong, a market of 7 million people, is an important part of our focus on free trade and the improvement of access for our exporters to world markets. That is very important in my electorate. The agreement is a priority, and it was included in the Prime Minister\u2019s statement to this Parliament in February. Our Prime Minister has made it very clear that it is only by lifting our economic performance that we can create jobs, boost incomes, improve living standards, and provide the world-class Public Service that Kiwi families deserve. I am fully in support of this bill and will support it through its second reading stage. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022676a9a30a9e440529c0b72cb7b13f7ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022676a9a30a9e440529c0b72cb7b13f7ab\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E There is a saying that most people will know. It goes along the lines of \u201Clies, damned lies, and statistics\u201D. The economy grew by 25 percent under Labour, so when the previous speaker, John Hayes, talked about John Key increasing wage growth, I can tell that member that in the 9 years before the previous Labour Government came into office, National had increased the minimum wage by $1\u2014$1\u2014over 9 years. Labour took the minimum wage from $7.50 an hour to $12.75\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f612481d6da4abe926e87643241648d\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a second reading of a bill. I refer the member to Speakers\u2019 rulings 105/5, 106/1 and 106/2. Although one can mention what the Opposition has said in terms of the debate, one cannot dwell on that at length.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237aa535422ae4d8ea65d5fb3bfc959e1\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: When we look at New Zealand wages in comparison with those of Hong Kong, we see that we are in fact quite a low-wage economy. The reason why we are when compared with Hong Kong and our other Asian neighbours is that the former National Government increased the minimum wage by only $1 over 9 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIf people had been living in Hong Kong, there would have been a revolt\u2014even in a country like Hong Kong. And there was; New Zealand elected a Labour Government that took the minimum wage from $7.50 an hour to $12.75 an hour. When National members talk about Mr Key and his active agenda in terms of going to Hong Kong, I say that he has increased the minimum wage by only 50c an hour. If people are earning a million dollars a year\u2014and about 350 people in New Zealand earn a million dollars a year\u2014they are about to get another $1,000 a week. But if people are on the median wage in Hawke\u2019s Bay, they will get only about $3 a week. That is a travesty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI stand in support of this Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill, because bilateral trade agreements are vital to the country\u2019s sustained economic development and growth. The previous speaker knows, because he was involved in the trade game for a long time, that every single free-trade agreement and closer economic partnership that has come before this House was negotiated by either Phil Goff or Jim Sutton. Labour started every single negotiation that has come through this House that we have passed into law. Mr Groser has taken the ball and dotted it down. He has received the final pass, and crossed the try line, just as that great Hawke\u2019s Bay player, Israel Dagg\u2014great Magpie man that he is\u2014did in the recent test against the Springboks. That is all that Mr Groser has done. Phil Goff and the previous Labour Government were the team that actually took the ball and ran with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI will outline just two points. The first is the necessity of negotiating sound free-trade agreements. The second is the fact that this National Government is simply not doing enough to ensure that New Zealand companies can take advantage of new opportunities, like the one we are passing into law tonight. Closer economic partnerships, or CEPs as they are known, are a vital part of New Zealand\u2019s economic development policy. They break down tariff quotas and custom duties that restrict access and profitability for New Zealand exporters and importers. They will hopefully lead to increased imports and exports, and to potential added wealth for both countries. New Zealand signed the closer economic partnership with Hong Kong on 29 March 2010 and this bill will implement that agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EHong Kong is currently our ninth-largest export destination, accounting for $823 million last year in exports. New Zealand imported $199 million worth of merchandise goods from Hong Kong last year, making Hong Kong the 31st largest source of imported goods. However, let us put that into perspective. Hong Kong accounts for only 1.9 percent of New Zealand\u2019s total exported goods, and only 0.4 percent of our total imported goods. Therein lies the challenge to this economy going forward. New Zealand\u2019s ninth-largest export destination accounts for only 1.9 percent of our total exported goods. If there were ever a case for global diversification, those figures are it. There is a very strong argument for this type of free-trade agreement. It puts potential trading partners on the map and on the radar of New Zealand Trade and Enterprise, as well as of potential exporters. Despite Hong Kong\u2019s small size, it is a market that is already rapidly expanding. Last year\u2019s total exports increased by 33.6 percent compared with the figure for 2008. However, total imports declined by 2.5 percent, compared with the figure for 2008. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe largest area of export growth by percentage was actually that of apples, the value of which increased by 122 percent. It is good for the people of Hawke\u2019s Bay, considering that that province is \u201Cthe fruit bowl of New Zealand\u201D. Members can believe it, or not, but the product registering the second-highest percentage growth is offal, which was up by 66 percent over that 2-year period. However, the product of the largest value, by far\u2014by almost four times that of the next largest\u2014is crustaceans. The value in 2009 was about NZ$200 million, free on board. To put that into context, sheepmeat exports were worth about $42 million. In terms of imports, the largest area of imports is machinery parts, which account for about $16 million worth, but that dropped by about 15 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI note that the closer economic partnership does not provide Hong Kong investors with an exemption from New Zealand\u2019s investment screening regime as set out in the Overseas Investment Act 2005. The Act requires overseas investors to apply to the Overseas Investment Office for consent to invest in New Zealand fishing quota, sensitive land, or business assets over $100 million. The screening threshold for Hong Kong, however, is $20 million, which is well below the threshold of $100 million applicable to other overseas investors. New Zealand service exporters, as was mentioned by my colleague the Hon Maryan Street, have also secured strong future-proofing of their position in the Hong Kong market through the most favoured nation treatment and a ratchet clause. The most favoured nation treatment means that New Zealand exporters will automatically benefit from any preferential treatment that Hong Kong provides to future free-trade agreement partners, subject to certain reservations and exceptions. The ratchet clause means that any future unilateral liberalisation undertaken by Hong Kong in certain sectors will be bound in and committed to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EMy second point is the fact that this Government is simply not doing enough to ensure that New Zealand companies can take advantage of any new opportunities generated by this and other free-trade agreements and closer economic partnerships. Prime Minister Key came away from China and said that he wanted trade to that country doubled in 4 years\u2019 time. Well, the vast majority of us want the same. Increased sustainable trade is a necessity for New Zealand\u2019s future economic growth and development, but the difference between National\u2019s approach to trade and Labour\u2019s approach to trade is quite stark. Under trade Ministers the Hon Phil Goff and the Hon Jim Sutton Labour increased the budget for market development and access opportunities by millions, in the knowledge that operating in a foreign environment like China requires very specific skills, knowledge, and support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI ask members to imagine going into a country like Hong Kong, where the language, the customs, the laws, the business practice, etc. are completely different, then take into account that 97 percent of New Zealand\u2019s businesses are small to medium sized enterprises. This means that 97 percent of New Zealand businesses employ 19 people or fewer. They simply do not have the skills, competencies, or resources to employ a full-time international marketing or market development manager. Labour recognised this and built a support network around key markets to help businesses optimise their opportunities. National, under Tim Groser and Gerry Brownlee, has instead cut the budget. When questioned about this, Mr Groser said: \u201COur plan is to do more with less.\u201D That is not even a decent slogan\u2014\u201Cmore with less\u201D\u2014let alone a goal or a plan, and it is certainly not a strategy. That is why I say that this Government is not doing enough to help the country and its companies to take advantage of this type of free-trade agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I say that I support this bill. It is a Labour bill, of course; it was negotiated by Phil Goff. It is another important step in the process of growing opportunities for New Zealand companies. However, as I said, that Government over there is simply not doing enough to allow New Zealand companies, New Zealand businessmen and businesswomen, to take advantage of this. One cannot do anything with a \u201Cmore with less\u201D strategy. This Government needs to engage more with the business community in terms of allowing these companies to take advantage of the opportunities generated by this agreement, which was negotiated by the next Prime Minister of New Zealand, the Hon Phil Goff. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u00224ec15a5ed49c4d5aa89f8b3f728eb05c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ec15a5ed49c4d5aa89f8b3f728eb05c\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to speak on behalf of the Green Party on the latest round of preferential trade agreements that National and Labour have been signing us up to. This is not a free-trade agreement, as the previous speaker, Stuart Nash, and other speakers have said; it is actually a preferential trade agreement\u2014that is, it is a preferential trade agreement between two countries, or rather, in the case of Hong Kong, a kind of subset of a country. This is a preferential trade agreement. Like all of the preferential trade agreements that have been signed up to by Labour and National, it has some real problems for New Zealand. I will talk in general terms about some of the problems with these preferential trade agreements and then talk specifically about why signing a trade agreement with the Chinese Communist Party is a particularly stupid thing to do, as if all the others were not stupid enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EOne of the issues with these preferential trade agreements is the investment clauses within them. In this particular preferential trade agreement with Hong Kong, the investment clauses are to be negotiated by an exchange of letters, rather than be included in the agreement itself, but I think that the best way to understand the framework within which this agreement is operating is to look at the parallel agreement that goes alongside this, which is between China and New Zealand. Chapter 11 of the New Zealand - China preferential trade agreement looks at issues to do with investment clauses. Basically, it says that investments in each country have to be given national treatment\u2014that is, under article 138, we need to treat Chinese investors in New Zealand the same as we treat New Zealand investors in New Zealand, except where we have non-conforming measures, as they are called. Non-conforming measures are addressed under article 141 of the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement, which is the parallel agreement to this one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EBasically, as is the case with most of these preferential trade agreements, it operates as a ratchet. It says that whatever non-conforming measures we have on investment at the time that the treaty was signed, we can keep them. We cannot make them any tighter, but we can weaken them. Our overseas investment laws, as they currently exist, place certain constraints on incoming investment from foreign countries. Those laws can remain in place, but they cannot be tightened. They can be weakened, and that acts as a ratchet. The overseas investment laws as they currently stand, whether they are to do with sensitive land\u2014that is, blocks of rural land over 5 hectares\u2014or business investments of over $100 million, can be weakened, as if they are not weak enough already, but they cannot be strengthened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThese trade deals try to freeze the existing overseas investment laws in place. They say that we can weaken those laws further, but we cannot strengthen them. Labour and National are signing up to what should really be called \u201Csell the family farm trade agreements\u201D, because that is what they are designed to do. The way that these agreements are negotiated say that our current investment laws cannot be strengthened. We know that under the current investment laws we have sold off maybe 150,000 hectares of farmland into foreign ownership over the last 5 years, although the figures on it are a little unclear because it is not all recorded. Under Labour\u2019s watch we sold large chunks of the country into foreign ownership. These agreements say that we cannot tighten the laws any further, so that the laws currently in place, which enable very large amounts of New Zealand land to be sold into overseas ownership, cannot be tightened. That is exactly what is explicitly stated in these agreements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EIn the Hong Kong agreement, it is to be done by an exchange of letters, which operates in parallel with the agreement and is currently being negotiated. In the agreement with the Chinese Communist Party, it is in chapter 11. I invite members to look seriously at chapter 11 of the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement\u2014or preferential trade agreement, as it actually is\u2014and they will see the provisions that prevent us from exercising our democratic rights as a sovereign Parliament to change the rules on foreign investment. Goodness knows, it would take quite some doing, but if this Parliament were to find the courage within itself to strengthen the rules around overseas investment to stop family farms being sold off\u2014because this Parliament has overseen a massive sell-off in family farms and is planning to continue doing that\u2014and if it were to find the moral courage to say that we do not want all of our family farms to go into overseas ownership in Hong Kong, China, or any other country, then we would find ourselves in breach of the investment treaties that Labour and National are so intent on signing the Government up to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EArticle 141 of the New Zealand - China free-trade deal, which will be paralleled by the exchange of letters in the Hong Kong deal, says that the national treatment does not apply to any existing non-conforming measure. Our overseas investment laws are a non-conforming measure. It says that we can continue with that, but we cannot increase the non-conformity of the measure. Article 141(3) of the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement, which will be paralleled in the Hong Kong agreement, very clearly states that we cannot increase the non-conformity of these measures. That means that if we want to increase the restrictions on foreign ownership of New Zealand land, then we will be breaching the agreements that National and Labour are so intent on signing us up to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EOver and over again National and Labour are tying us into that situation. With China and Hong Kong, that means making a deal with the Chinese Communist Party, an authoritarian, capitalist regime that imprisons people who disagree with it, that locks up people if they do not agree with it. That is the deal we have signed in this particular case with the Chinese Communist Party. China is a one-party State, and that party controls the Chinese Government. The President of China, Hu Jintao, is not the President because he was elected; he is the President because he is the Secretary-General of the Chinese Communist Party, which, of course, appoints the President of China. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EBy signing up to these agreements, we have locked in place the current overseas investment regime. If we wanted to tighten the overseas investment regime, we would be breaching the terms of the agreements that Labour and National have locked us into. We have heard a lot recently from Labour and National about how they have somehow decided that they do not like the sale of family farms to foreign owners, even though they have both been overseeing it for a very long time. In particular, Labour as the previous Government was very keen on selling off the family farm; that is why it sold literally hundreds of thousands of hectares into overseas ownership. It has locked us into an agreement that means that we cannot tighten the rules on overseas investment. Chapter 11 of the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement, which parallels the exchange of letters that is to come in the Hong Kong free-trade agreement, says that we can have measures that treat overseas investors differently, like our overseas investment laws do now, but we cannot tighten them. We can weaken them, but we cannot tighten them. If we decided that we did not want any further family farms over, say, 500 hectares to go into overseas ownership, we would be breaching the terms of the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement and, no doubt, the terms that will be in the exchange of letters with the Hong Kong - New Zealand free-trade agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWhen National and Labour members sit in this House, as they do day after day, and pretend that they are worried about the sale of foreign land, we have to wonder why they are signing us up to agreements that lock in the current rules that enable the sale of land to foreign owners. I think that that is something that is unexamined. In these debates about free-trade agreements, anything called a free-trade agreement immediately gets support from National and Labour. They just vote for it. They have a reflex reaction. If it is called a free-trade agreement, they vote for it. They do not think about it or read the treaties. They do not read chapter 11 of this treaty, which covers all the investment clauses. They think \u201COh, free-trade agreements! We must vote for them.\u201D, regardless of the fact that they are constraining the ability of this Parliament and future Parliaments to regulate in the democratic interests of people in this country. If we democratically decided that we wanted to tighten overseas investment laws beyond those that currently exist, we would be breaching chapter 11 of the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement and, no doubt, the exchange of letters required by the Hong Kong - New Zealand free-trade agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThat is why the Green Party will not be voting for this. Unlike National and Labour, we are not happy with the sale of New Zealand land being completely unregulated, and we think that we need to tighten the laws around investment in New Zealand in order to do what is in the best interests of this country, rather than being bound up by some kind of ideological position in favour of anything called a free-trade agreement, whatever the content of that agreement is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc2101bbe974450580dd02c2d3acc53f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc2101bbe974450580dd02c2d3acc53f\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E In my contribution on the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill, I speak strongly in favour of it. I was interested in the contribution from the co-leader of the Green Party Dr Russel Norman. I think it is a shame that the permanent Green member on the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, Keith Locke, has not had an opportunity to speak on this bill, because at least he has gone through the select committee process and scrutinised the bill, along with the Labour and National members on that committee. Although I accept that he will not vote in favour of this bill, at least he has taken the time, unlike the co-leader of the Greens, to scrutinise the bill and its impact on New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ERather than playing the blame game about who first started the process of this bill\u2014which Minister started the negotiations, and who signed it\u2014apart from congratulating the Hon Tim Groser on signing the deal, I want to focus on the benefits for New Zealand, and in particular on the benefits for the agricultural sector. I want to zero right down to a paddock of lambs that are being born in\u2014well, it is a bit early for Central Otago\u2014the North Island, where we now see lambs being born in the Bay of Plenty. We know that in little over a year a good proportion of those lambs will be on their way to the wet markets and supermarkets of Hong Kong, courtesy of this closer economic partnership agreement, the endeavours of the farmer, and the processing and marketing industry in New Zealand. New Zealand lamb and sheep meat is highly valued in Hong Kong. We could probably supply more of it, but with flock numbers falling, unfortunately, we seem to have a bit of a crisis in the sheepmeat industry in New Zealand. Things like this free-trade agreement can only do benefit to the health of the New Zealand agricultural sector. For that reason, for those paddocks in the North Island and in Central Otago, and for the farmers in that industry, I believe that the closer economic partnership agreements with Hong Kong and China can only bring benefit to New Zealand. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u00224e273882dbef415ba8cb95fbce53d9c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e273882dbef415ba8cb95fbce53d9c7\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is indeed to be congratulated on the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill. It is very much in line with the Government\u2019s aim to expand our trade. After all, we are an exporting nation. That is something that has escaped previous speakers. We are absolutely dependent on our exports and we need to take every advantage we can. This partnership agreement with Hong Kong enables us to do so. It is part of a network that has been established over the years that includes our free-trade agreements with Thailand, Singapore, China, Malaysia, and Brunei, and, of course, the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EIt was interesting to hear the previous speaker, the excellent Jacqui Dean from Otago, talk about how vitally important this partnership agreement is to our primary products. I can say that the spring lambs are frolicking in the fields around Pukekohe, Franklin, and Karaka, where I live. They, along with the great produce that comes from the vegetable basket of New Zealand, from the rich, fertile soils of Franklin, are the sorts of things that will benefit from this partnership agreement with Hong Kong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI want to make two particular points. First, this closer economic partnership will ensure that New Zealand\u2019s exports to Hong Kong are locked in for exporters. Only 14 percent of New Zealand\u2019s current exports to Hong Kong are in tariff lines that are unbound. This means that Hong Kong is currently free to increase tariffs to any level, without breaching its World Trade Organization commitments. Locking in New Zealand\u2019s duty-free access will provide New Zealand exporters with certainty on tariffs that their competitors do not enjoy. Second, the closer economic partnership contains phasing of the elimination of tariffs that exactly mirrors that in the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement in order to avoid creating any incentive for Chinese manufacturers to route their products through Hong Kong in order to take advantage of the more favourable access enjoyed by Hong Kong. This, of course, is crucially important. Although Hong Kong has a population of only 7 million people, by about 2050 China will have a population of 1.5 billion people, with a much higher per capita income than they have today. Naturally, they will be hugely important for New Zealand exports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI too commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u0022a741d7646c4a419db8d1baa780f1b1dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a741d7646c4a419db8d1baa780f1b1dc\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Labour\u2014Dunedin North):\u003C/span\u003E Without wanting to derogate from the importance of the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership) Amendment Bill one iota, it is probably worth recording that there is a certain sameness about debates on trade agreements. It is a good thing, but there is a certain sameness, because after the arguments of the 1970s and, more particularly, the 1980s, this country seems to have embraced free international competitive trade as a hallmark, without any hesitation. It has been quite open to it. As a result, the two big blobs of the political spectrum, Labour and National, go around saying how good it is, and what potential\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209859359c3d64a81ba6e08dcc92b5f30\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: Who are you calling a blob? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225192cf269d8e41be8b5bc7b01bd9f984\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is the two-big-blob theory of politics, unlike the model in Scandinavia, for example, or wherever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022121ee6271c754e658b487c921b51c0c5\u0022\u003EJacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: Unfortunate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ca6a0f0b0f04748806b47fa04b23db2\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON\u003C/span\u003E: If the member does not want to be called a blob, I withdraw and apologise. It was not meant as a nasty comment; it was just a way of describing the political landscape. We go around talking about the importance of trade, the rules of origin, how we are very pleased about it, and the ratchet clause. Then we say that this trade Minister, that trade Minister, and the one before him\u2014because I think they have always been \u201Chims\u201D\u2014were very good trade Ministers, and, no doubt, trade Ministers yet to be born will be very good trade Ministers too. Then we say that in respect of the Greens we understand and respect their differentiated position, but we notice that, first of all, they are in a minority, and secondly, they are not exactly against trade. The Greens then get up to say that, verily, they are not against trade, but they are just against trade in this or that circumstance. That is what I mean about the sameness of trade debates. It is something to be celebrated, because little enough in politics is agreed across the House, and it is better that instead of fighting over everything, we fight only over stuff where there is genuine disagreement. This is one area where there is not disagreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EHowever, I will make two points, which are slightly unrelated. The first is that the Holy Grail of Doha appears to me to be not making so much progress. We are always talking about another trade agreement with a country in South-east Asia, North Asia, East Asia, or wherever it might be, or we might go across to South America and fold in the Chileans and so on\u2014and so too with this agreement in Hong Kong, which is an advance on an earlier agreement we had with that part of the world. But we notice that the agreement relates to Asia. We notice that it is not to do with Europe or North America. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EI do not want to name-drop, but I had dinner on the Saturday before last with a woman called Ann Veneman, who was Secretary of Agriculture under President Bush. I do not want to quote her at length, because it was a private meeting, but she knew trade Ministers from long ago in New Zealand, and had met one or two them; she met Jim Sutton, for example. That former Secretary of Agriculture was much more interested in trying to get free trade running than was the populace she represented. Deep within those nations is a resistance to trade, and it will cost those countries, sooner or later. That is my first point. By a mistake of geography, we do not sit where Iceland or Cyprus are, we sit where Asia roughly begins or ends, and therefore we are caught up in the maelstrom of trading activity that is reshaping global economics and where the new hegemonies are rising. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EThe second thing I want to say\u2014I will be critical of the Government, and its members will no doubt get up to say I have been unfair and unreasonable\u2014is about the support being given to our exporters. Notwithstanding the fact that they are doing famously well at the moment\u2014we have had trade surpluses for the last 6 or 7 months in a row, which is excellent news\u2014over the decades our export performance has been less than it might have been. That is why we are facing things such as the Crafar farms debate, which we will always face as long as we have a current account deficit. If we cannot pay our way in the world, we will start selling parts of our country to the world\u2014there is nothing surer in economics than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EWith that in mind, I wonder whether the Government would consider recommitting to some more effort in this area, both through Trade and Enterprise and through other means as well. Notwithstanding the great work done by Tim Groser and, no doubt, other Ministers from time to time, I do not see great effort in many of the great South-east Asian nations. I do not see us moving in a very determined way towards Thailand, for example, or Viet Nam, yet those are parts of the world where the emergence of the middle class is startling. I do not think we are doing enough, even in China, where under the previous Government plane-loads of business people went before, during, and after the signing of the free-trade agreement with China. Despite the fact that there are beachheads and offices for New Zealand Trade and Enterprise in various cities around China, and despite a great improvement, I still do not think it is enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003EOf course, many private sector companies do not need New Zealand Trade and Enterprise or some Cabinet Minister to go there to give the Government imprimatur, and to open the door. I understand that, but for those who can be assisted and who need the assistance, that assistance is not always timely or on the mark. I think we should adopt a different approach to exporters. Let us not tell them, but, rather, quietly treat them as heroic people. They often spend 100 days a year off-shore with their heads on someone else\u2019s pillow, not their own, and that needs to be rewarded. Exporters are different, especially small or medium sized exporters that are going through a growth phase, moving into new markets, or \u201Ckicking butt\u201D, basically. They really need a good deal of support. I do not think the current Government provides it. The wind-down of some of the New Zealand Trade and Enterprise stuff in the last 2 years has not been a good thing, and on that matter I am critical of the Government. That said, I think this legislation is great. The people who negotiated it are great. I pay my respects to the officials who led it, and I hope it has speedy passage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00227b7634da2f3f4b6c9f8c7837560ed389\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b7634da2f3f4b6c9f8c7837560ed389\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me pleasure to rise to speak on the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill. I believe this is a very important bill before the House. A number of previous speakers have raised the issue of the work the previous Labour Government did in trade. I think it is very important to clarify for a moment that with the exception of one, all parties in this Parliament have generally been in favour of trade, free-trade agreements, and the promotion of New Zealand businesses and their interests overseas. It is important we recognise at the forefront that the previous Government held trade as a priority. Where that priority fell down for our exporters in New Zealand was the speed with which the previous Government was able to get results from the rhetoric of Cabinet, where somebody would say in a very deep voice that it would be a very good idea to have more trade with countries overseas, and a trade Minister would say in a squeaky voice that he or she would go overseas to have a look and see whether he or she could do some trade-agreement deals. Of course, 9 years later very few agreements were in place, but the system was started by at least one or two of the members opposite. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWho has delivered on this legislation? We have heard some analogies of rugby, and I would suggest that in some years to come when we think of that wonderful game of rugby that happened in South Africa the other day, it will be the last 3 minutes that will be remembered. Of course, there was a lot of very hard work in the lead-up to the half-hour before that, but the last 3 minutes were when the tries were scored, and it was our hard-working Minister of Trade, Tim Groser, who earlier this year, on 29 March, was able to make sure this agreement was signed. Five short months later, this agreement is about to enter into law in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIt will be good for our exporters, for the people in forestry, and certainly for farmers. In my electorate the kiwifruit producers and orchardists think it is a wonderful thing. People in my electorate and in other members\u2019 electorates who like to buy goods that are imported from overseas will enjoy the benefits that this agreement will deliver to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI support this bill fully and look forward to diving into it in greater depth in the Committee of the whole House. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u00224053b44443624ba78a0e94dd9bc75ea6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224053b44443624ba78a0e94dd9bc75ea6\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in the second reading of the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill. Labour supports this bill, as it will lead to increased opportunities for New Zealand exporters in the Hong Kong market, as well as strengthening our relationship with the Greater China and Asian regions. There are three issues that I wish to talk about as part of my contribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EFirst of all, as the Labour spokesperson on trade, the Hon Maryan Street, said earlier in her first reading speech, this initiative is really interesting and quite exciting, because it will help to herald a significant move in the export of both goods and services to the Hong Kong market. Secondly, for a small economy like New Zealand\u2019s, growing a sustainable and export-led economy is vital. This bill is, however, a timely reminder that an export-led recovery has not eventuated, and it is a missed opportunity to address one of the critical economic issues that face New Zealand, which is our monetary policy setting. Labour believes that that policy is in need of reform, and that it has been one of the underlining limits on economic reforms versus other OECD or wealthier developed countries. Thirdly, labour rights and environmental sustainability are core New Zealand values that should not be sacrificed for the sake of increased trade. When undertaking negotiations they need to be held high on the agenda. Reading the speech notes of the Council of Trade Unions president, Helen Kelly, in July this year on the relevant issues has reinforced my position on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EI have recently posted an article on the Labour MPs\u2019 blog Red Alert. I said that on our regular weekly radio show the Minister for Ethnic Affairs and I receive questions and messages from the Chinese constituency. In answer to some of the questions, the Hon Pansy Wong stated that exports had decreased under Labour and have increased since National came into office. She neglected to mention that it was the then Minister of Trade, Phil Goff, who signed the free-trade agreement with China. This opened up the floodgates to trade with China, making China our second-largest trading partner. In the first year of the free-trade agreement, trade with China increased by 62 percent, and National was in office for less than 4 months of that period. On the issue of the spiralling Asian unemployment rate, which has just hit a record high of 10.5 percent, Minister Wong said \u201Calthough unemployment is increasing so is the rate of employment, although the speed of job creation is slower than that of the number of people who are losing their jobs.\u201D I am not sure whether that statement even makes sense, but it shows that the Minister has no answer to the now more than 23,000 Asian New Zealanders who are unemployed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EMinister Wong\u2019s answer also ignored the fact that bilateral or multilateral agreements on trade are often the product of joint efforts and collaboration. For instance, the origins of the New Zealand - Hong Kong, China closer economic partnership go back to as early as 2001. The idea was first mooted by the Hon Jim Sutton, who was the Minister for Trade Negotiations at that time. In 2002 the talks were suspended when New Zealand and Hong Kong became bogged down in discussions around rules of origin and problems with labelling regulations. The talks were subsequently revitalised under the Hon Phil Goff as Minister of Trade, and were pursued by the current Minister, the Hon Tim Groser. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EHong Kong is our ninth-largest export destination, accounting for $823 million last year. Just as important, it is our eighth-largest source of foreign direct investment. New Zealand imported $199 million of merchandise goods from Hong Kong last year, making it the 31st-largest source of imported goods. Hong Kong accounts for 1.9 percent of New Zealand\u2019s total exported goods and 0.4 percent of total imported goods. This market is already rapidly expanding, with last year\u2019s total exports increasing by 33.6 percent, compared with 2008. However, total imported goods declined by 2.5 percent last year, compared with 2008. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ETo summarise, closer economic partnership agreements are a vital part of New Zealand\u2019s economic development policy. Closer economic partnerships break down tariffs, quotas, and customs duties, which restrict access and profitability for New Zealand exporters and importers. Closer economic partnerships lead to increased exports and imports, and have the potential to add to the wealth of both markets. I acknowledge that New Zealand signed a closer economic partnership with Hong Kong in March 2010, and this bill implements that agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe latest release from the New Zealand Manufacturers and Exporters Association shows that an export-led economic recovery has not eventuated. While domestic sales increased by 19 percent in April 2010, export sales decreased by 5 percent. The signing of free-trade agreements and closer economic partnerships is important, and this particular closer economic partnership will boost the economy, but that is only part of the solution. The Government needs to support New Zealand businesses to best exploit the opportunities that free-trade agreements present. Sadly, the National Government has failed to assist New Zealand exporters. Its refusal to even consider examining monetary policy highlights that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EIn 2009 the Labour Party withdrew from the cross-party consensus on monetary policy. Labour believes that the policy is in need of reform. Back in March 2004 Labour introduced an important change to enable the banks to pursue a more active role in the foreign exchange markets. This assisted the economy by tempering exchange rate volatility, and by moving New Zealand\u2019s monetary management closer to Australian practices. Another important change would be the idea of amending the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act in order to broaden the Reserve Bank\u2019s objectives. The objectives of the Reserve Bank of Australia are not only to maintain the stability of the currency of Australia, but also the maintenance of full employment in Australia and of the economic prosperity and welfare of the people of Australia. In contrast, our Reserve Bank is tasked solely with maintaining stability in the general level of prices, and that is not helpful to our tradable economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EAlthough free-trade agreements and closer economic partnerships come with undoubted benefits, we must not ignore the reality that for some businesses and sectors they can cause harm. This closer economic partnership has been evaluated as having a low negative impact on New Zealand business, largely because Hong Kong specialises in services rather than in cheap manufactured goods that could undercut local businesses. New Zealand manufacturers of footwear, textiles, etc. are most at risk from free-trade agreements and closer economic partnerships, and I am very glad that this closer economic partnership has given those sectors the longest phase-out period for tariffs in order to allow them time to adjust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EI reiterate that labour rights and environmental sustainability are core New Zealand values that should not be sacrificed for the sake of increased trade. When undertaking negotiations, they need to be held high on the agenda. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d889911091cb45389a9eb7e5503d2139\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 3 (Flavell, Sharples, Turia); Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9, M\u0101ori Party 2 (Harawira, Katene).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b6d37d12db74679aa19f156f691a45b\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4054f82fe534cf393bb14d523db3ea9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4054f82fe534cf393bb14d523db3ea9\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the Committee stage of the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill to be taken as one question, with a wide-ranging debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268a925cfb15e4edca42e115813a7179d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for clauses 1 to 4 to be taken as one question. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022688df801b90641198cde23f8cfeb3587\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 4\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u00222e2b3f59be864d0d81f1651b30769f86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e2b3f59be864d0d81f1651b30769f86\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E It is good to be able to support the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill in the Committee stage, and I will do it fairly briefly. One of the things I draw the Committee\u2019s attention to is the constant negativism and opposition of a misled Green Party, which has a minority view in the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee\u2019s report. I simply say to the Green Party that as a specific result of our free-trade agreement with China, New Zealand increased its exports to China by $860 million in the last 12 months. I ask members to think about the number of jobs that that is creating, but the Green Party would like us to shut that down. A new market of $860 million is roughly the equivalent of finding a new market like Indonesia, because our total exports to Indonesia are about $860 million. I say to this Parliament and to this country that when it comes time to tick the box for the party we want to vote for in the next election, we should remember that the Green Party would like to close this down and close job creation down. When the select committee considered that issue, we said it made no sense in our heads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThis is a very brief bill. I draw the Committee\u2019s attention to two points. First, the bill includes a ratchet clause. This means that should there be any future trade unilateral trade liberalisation by Hong Kong in certain sectors, such as education, the Hong Kong Government will automatically be obliged to pass those benefits on to us. We believe that the most-favoured nation status and the ratchet clause will future-proof access for New Zealand for the service sector, particularly to the Hong Kong market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003ESecond, over the last few months voters in my Wairarapa electorate have felt considerable concern about people coming into this country and buying up land. Two of the Crafar farms are located near Norsewood, in my electorate. This agreement does not allow Hong Kong investors any exemption from the screening process and the regime set out in the Overseas Investment Act 2005. The Act requires overseas investors to apply to the Overseas Investment Office for consent to invest in New Zealand in respect of fishing quotas, sensitive land, or business assets over $100 million. However, I stress to the Committee that the screening threshold for Hong Kong is $20 million. It is well below the threshold of the $100 million that is applicable to other overseas investors. With those few words, I stress our total support for this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u002235e8f02f6b0e43639ba3a0440bdbfcc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235e8f02f6b0e43639ba3a0440bdbfcc4\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I find myself agreeing with the previous speaker, John Hayes, because free trade is one of those things where one has to be in the game if one wants to be part of the new world era. This day and age of globalisation is very real, and it will affect New Zealand. It can be seen either as an opportunity or a threat. If we see it as an opportunity and grab it with both hands, as this bill has done, then there is a real chance for New Zealand to go out to the world and be a world leader. In this day and age, not just companies but countries are striving for competitive advantage. We suffer from the tyranny of distance; it is difficult for us to go out there and find our way in new markets. We need these sorts of free-trade agreements if we are to achieve sustainable economic growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis bill is most important, as are all free-trade agreements that come before the House. It is a short bill, as the previous speaker alluded to, although there is a national interest analysis that runs to about 58 pages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI must admit that I took slight offence when the speaker from the Green Party, Russel Norman, stood up and said that Labour passes any legislation that has \u201Cfree-trade agreement\u201D on the front of it, without understanding national interest analyses. We understand national interest analyses. Labour members sit on the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, which deliberates on these sorts of bills. Labour understands free-trade agreements. We understand the ramifications, the risks, and the benefits. This bill is important, and we very much support it because it gives our exporters an opportunity to get into markets that were closed to us or were limited due to unrestricted tariff barriers. We already know that Hong Kong offers duty-free imports for all countries, but this closer economic partnership will ensure that New Zealand\u2019s existing duty-free access is locked in for our exporters, which will give our exporters an added certainty that competitors, other than Mainland China, do not enjoy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis bill is important for the future of New Zealand trade. We are an exporting nation. Exporting is the only way that we will grow our economy. We have a small population of about 4.5 million, and if we want to rise up the OECD rankings, which seem to be most important to some politicians, then we really need to engage our export markets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWe have the most favoured nation treatment, which means that New Zealand service exporters have also secured strong future-proofing of our position in the Hong Kong market through the most favoured nation treatment and a ratchet clause, which actually is not that bad. Most favoured nation treatment means that New Zealand exporters will automatically benefit from any preferential treatment that Hong Kong provides to future free-trade agreement partners, subject to certain reservations and exceptions. The ratchet clause means that any future unilateral liberalisation undertaken by Hong Kong in certain sectors will be bound and committed to New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis bill is about New Zealand going out into the world and developing agreements and relationships with countries that it otherwise would not have. As my colleague Pete Hodgson mentioned, this bill takes the lead. We can wait until all those multinational World Trade Organization agreements come into place, but if we wait for them, we could be waiting for a long time. This bill is a proactive response to what is happening around us at this point in time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWe have a long tariff phase-out. New Zealand will be using the same tariff reduction schedule as the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement for imported products from Hong Kong. In order to help mitigate the potential for any negative adjustment effects associated with the phase-out of these tariffs, the longest tariff phase-out periods apply to industry sectors in New Zealand that are particularly sensitive to imports from Hong Kong. So when a Green member stands and berates Labour for not understanding this free-trade agreement, I take exception.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned in my second reading speech, I do not think the National Government is taking this issue seriously enough. It is cutting the budget to New Zealand Trade and Enterprise initiatives that the previous Labour Government ramped up. I do not think that New Zealand is resourced enough to take full advantage of the effects of this, and other, free-trade agreements or closer economic partnerships, or whatever you want to call them, that are before the House. If we are to really take advantage of them, the Government needs to fund them. The Government needs to understand that this is the future of the New Zealand economy. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u002270228367c7634c029a33618c87541d58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270228367c7634c029a33618c87541d58\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The previous speakers have talked essentially about the upside of the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill\u2014that is, the expansion of particular dairy products in Hong Kong and, related to that, in China. They talked very little about the downside in terms of the effect on New Zealand manufacturing, which continues to be undermined by cheaper products from China. It is not a level playing field for New Zealand manufacturers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI will address the question that John Hayes raised. His concern\u2014and I am glad that he has the concern\u2014was about the sale of the Crafar farms and perhaps other dairy farms to overseas interests. In this case we are talking about Chinese or Hong Kong interests. We are left with the problem in the dairy sector of perhaps expanding the exports to China and Hong Kong but perhaps losing the land to foreign ownership\u2014to China or Hong Kong\u2014that those dairy products come from. Let us look at the investment provisions\u2014and they have been described by many speakers\u2014the $100 million limit and, under this agreement, the $20 million limit. Unless a dairy farm is sold for more than $100 million it just goes through the system, and a high proportion of our land can be onsold to overseas interests. We end up with our dairy farmers being tenant farmers on land owned by Chinese, Hong Kong, or other overseas owners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe Government and Labour should take note of the campaign started up by some very prominent Auckland business people to try to deal with this and to essentially say that we should not sell our farmland in this way. Other countries do not do it. China does not do it; it allows only leasehold. I think the very fact that quite prominent members of the business community are promoting this campaign and are getting some momentum should wake up both Labour and National. One of the problems is how, under the ratchet clauses in this agreement, as was explained by Russel Norman, we can legally get the result that these Auckland business people want  under what we have committed to in terms of the two agreements and other free-trade and investment agreements. It is very hard to legislate without violating what is written in the free-trade agreements. That is a quandary that I wish Labour and National would address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea974f302a93409b9b374e879390a4ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea974f302a93409b9b374e879390a4ae\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The very few clauses that exist in the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill belie the expansiveness and the potential of this closer economic partnership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI listened with great care to the Green Party members\u2019 speeches about this. There was an earlier occasion, when we were debating the Malaysian free-trade agreement, I think, when there was very useful dialogue amongst the parties in the House about what potential pitfalls there might be and how the whole trade process might be improved. It seems to me that the Green Party contributions have misfired in respect of the New Zealand - Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership. When I look at the national interest analysis, particularly the bits that relate to the clauses on investment, I find that the only disadvantage that is noted about the clause relating to investment and the exchange of letters on investment is that, at the moment, there will be no investment chapter in the closer economic partnership because that issue is being resolved by an exchange of letters over a 2-year period. So within 2 years of the entry into force of the closer economic partnership a comprehensive investment protocol will be agreed by an exchange of letters, and added to this closer economic partnership. What remains in place is the current New Zealand - Hong Kong Agreement for the Promotion and Protection of Investments. That investment protocol does exist. It provides some minimum protections for investors, including national treatment, fair and equitable treatment, and also some disciplines on expropriation. I think the Green Party\u2019s objections to the clauses on investment are somewhat overstated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ELabour welcomes this bill and the closer economic partnership because they develop what is already a very close relationship with Hong Kong, and they give us and our businesses the opportunity to maximise not only opportunities within Hong Kong but opportunities in China as well. As I alluded to earlier, this very short amendment bill is deceptive in its brevity because it encompasses an extraordinary range of things, particularly services that we will be able to trade in, and benefit from, as we go forward with this closer economic partnership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EIt is the services component of this legislation that I celebrate the most, because I think it is the thing that will have the most vitality for New Zealand businesses. But I would ask that New Zealand businesses, in their efforts to maximise the opportunities that this closer economic partnership provides, are not hampered by a lack of resources being appropriated by this Government to allow, encourage, and facilitate businesses to take advantage of business opportunities in Hong Kong. It is one thing to have a closer economic partnership in place and all the tariff reductions in place, such as they are\u2014and all gone by 2016. It is all very well to have greater trade in services. But if the Government is not prepared to assist businesses to maximise those opportunities, then this bill is hardly worth the paper it is written on. There are wonderful opportunities, but not all of our services and our manufacturers are geared up to take advantage of those opportunities. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002217ead9a839e5479bb5ae012c2fece2ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217ead9a839e5479bb5ae012c2fece2ef\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I will explore a bit further the opportunities that will arise for New Zealand, and particularly the agricultural sector, as an outcome of the New Zealand - Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement. I note the stress that New Zealand sheep and beef farmers have been under for a number of years. Although this agreement provides an opportunity for that sector, I believe that it is up to companies such as Silver Fern Farms and the Alliance Group to make sure that they maximise the opportunities and the returns for their shareholding farmers. Maybe that goes a little bit beyond having market access to Hong Kong and China; maybe it goes as far as branding New Zealand sheepmeat and beef, which are highly regarded in that market. Making sure that they are fully signed up for things like\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230424c1cec984536af13605c808c659e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member; it is time for dinner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266c1527e27a9484cb8f5d950487a48c3\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: I will just finish off, because I was mid-sentence. If I recall, 1\u00BD hours ago I was talking about the opportunities and the challenges for the New Zealand primary production sector, and I was talking in terms of the sheep and beef industry capturing the value of their product. It is not good enough merely to grow it and ship it; it is about capturing the value. There are a number of Government initiatives, and one of them is National Animal Identification and Tracing, or NATE, which tags an animal from pasture to market, which is becoming increasingly valued in overseas markets. It is opportunities like that that the agricultural industry would do well to buy into in order to maximise the opportunities presented by things such as this free-trade agreement. Having finished that train of thought, I will leave it at that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00221b418c6f7a32495eb8f9dcf018efdb7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b418c6f7a32495eb8f9dcf018efdb7e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call in respect of the Committee stage of the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill. As prior speakers have said, Labour supports this bill. Of course Hong Kong is increasingly integrated into the China, Hong Kong having been returned as a colony from the British Government to China in\u2014someone else can help me here, when did Hong Kong go back to China?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022851c70b39ac545a3ab285e54ef3c5f14\u0022\u003EHon Dr Jonathan Coleman\u003C/span\u003E: 1997.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022420e08b833dd4ba5937cfe083c5c7442\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was 1997, so in the last 13 years we have seen the relationship between Hong Kong and China become stronger, and, given the importance of China to the trading relationship with New Zealand, things that improve the gateway that Hong Kong provides into China for our goods and services are also in the interests of the New Zealand economy. The closer economic partnership agreement that we have here is another example of bilateral deals that are in the interests of New Zealand, notwithstanding the fact that New Zealand believes in multilateral agreements under the framework of the World Trade Organization (WTO) as perhaps being the more ambitious and desirable outcome of international trade talks. But, given that the Doha round of the WTO seems to have stalled, or at least is at serious risk of stalling, the importance of bilateral agreements heightens as a replacement for multilateral agreements. So although multilateral agreements would be better, bilateral agreements have to do if the world cannot come to some agreement under the WTO talks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn terms of the benefits to New Zealand, it is worthwhile that the $4 million of tariffs currently paid by New Zealanders exporting goods to Hong Kong can be avoided through this agreement, but I am advised by my colleague Maryan Street that perhaps the greater potential lies in relation to service industries. Service industries providing services through Hong Kong stand to benefit more from the liberalisation of rules that apply to their conduct when trading in Hong Kong. The benefit of that is probably greater than that that accrues from the reduction in tariffs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI know that in terms of some of the more populous provinces of China adjacent to Hong Kong, Hong Kong is indeed the point of entry into a lot of trade with China nearby. Increasing integration of Hong Kong and China in their commercial affairs means that if we are to have closer economic relations with China\u2014truly one of the world\u2019s superpowers now\u2014facilitating that through the linkages we have through Hong Kong also seems to be a very good idea. It is already on record that the most significant free-trade agreement that New Zealand has entered into in decades is the free-trade agreement with China, which was negotiated by Phil Goff when he was the relevant Minister under the previous Labour Government. The statistics in respect of the outcome of the Chinese free-trade agreement show what the economic potential can be for a country like New Zealand to improve our economy with the free-trade agreement. Trade with China has boomed and the profitability of that trade has increased as a consequence of the reductions in tariffs that New Zealand exporters to China have benefited from as a consequence of the free-trade agreement with China. The Hong Kong agreement will bring similar benefit but will be of a scale that is far, far smaller, given the relative size of the Hong Kong economy compared with the Chinese economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENone the less, Hong Kong is not a small destination for goods; it is our 10th-largest export market, worth $783 million in the 2009-10 year. It is the world\u2019s second-largest service economy and acts as a hub for the provision of services in the region adjacent to Hong Kong, as well as Hong Kong itself. If we look at that part of the world as a tapestry of areas where we have different sorts of trading relationships, we will see that there are various countries in the Asian region where we have free-trade agreements. There are other countries where we have more restrictive trade arrangements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed11bd95dabd48a2b7969263ac77f1b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed11bd95dabd48a2b7969263ac77f1b6\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E There are two areas of the closer economic partnership with Hong Kong that I am particularly interested in exploring in the Committee stage of the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill. They are the labour memorandum of understanding and the environment cooperation agreement, which are outlined in the national interest analysis that accompanies this closer economic partnership. In fact, the national interest analysis effectively does the job of a regulatory impact statement, so there is no regulatory impact statement on this legislation. This is one of the few occasions when we forgive the Government for not attaching a regulatory impact statement to one of its pieces of legislation. The reason is that the purpose of a regulatory impact statement has been covered in the national interest analysis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe first point I want to make about the labour memorandum of understanding with Hong Kong is that it commits New Zealand to cooperating on labour issues, including participating in a cooperation programme, and to holding meetings on a regular basis with senior Hong Kong officials on the area of labour and also the environment. The labour memorandum of understanding contains generally understood or recognised core trade and labour principles, and is consistent with the policy framework for integrating labour into free-trade agreements. These principles include explicit recognition by both Hong Kong and New Zealand that labour laws, regulations, policies, and practices should not be used for trade protectionist purposes, nor should they be weakened or reduced in order to secure trade advantage. In other words, a country cannot deliberately beat down its labour costs in order to undercut goods that are being imported or exported. So there can be no contrived trade advantage by the repression of labour standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe specific reciprocal obligations for New Zealand under the memorandum of understanding on cooperation and related matters are, first, to maintain close dialogue with the stakeholders in the formulation of labour policies and practices. The second is to promote public awareness of labour laws and regulations that apply domestically. The third is to cooperate with Hong Kong on labour matters of mutual interest and benefit. The fourth is to designate a national contact point for labour matters to facilitate communication between the parties and to establish the cooperation programme that I alluded to earlier. The fifth one is to seek to provide funding to support mutually agreed cooperative activities, and the sixth is to meet within the first year of the labour memorandum of understanding\u2019s operation, and thereafter as mutually decided by the parties. The final obligation is to consult the other party in the event of an issue arising over the memorandum of understanding\u2019s interpretation or application.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ESo it is quite an active memorandum of understanding. It is not simply about having a talkfest; it is about making sure that there is a programme of meetings, that these meetings are held regularly, and that there is, in effect, a dispute resolution process in terms of differences in the way in which each party interprets or applies the memorandum of understanding on labour issues. Any differences or issues between the two parties, Hong Kong and New Zealand, should be settled by mutual consultation and negotiation. The memorandum of understanding does not allow for any differences to be referred to any third party or international tribunal. So we have here a concrete example of an agreement being examined on a programmed basis to confirm that labour practices are not being used for protectionism, or to undermine or confer any trade advantage on either party. So there is a dispute resolution process, which I have alluded to already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThat this closer economic partnership with Hong Kong and the free-trade agreement with China have labour and environment clauses built into them is an advance. The Committee will recall that the free-trade agreement with Malaysia that was recently debated in the House represented the very first time that Malaysia had had a labour clause inside a free-trade agreement, which is an improvement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe second point is the environment cooperation agreement. The environment cooperation agreement between Hong Kong and New Zealand is consistent with the policy framework of integrating environment objectives into free-trade agreements, and includes the core principles that establish a foundation for the bilateral relationship. These include explicit recognition by both parties that environmental laws, regulations, policies, and practices should not be used for trade protectionist purposes, nor should they be weakened or reduced in order to secure a trade advantage. This takes on very significant meaning when one applies it to such things as the fishing industry. It can be used to ensure that there is no cutting of corners within practices in the fishing industry in order to undercut a trade advantage or to secure an extra trade advantage. Again, there are some specific reciprocal obligations for New Zealand under the environment cooperation agreement, such as cooperating with Hong Kong on mutually determined environmental issues of common interest, providing a list of areas of New Zealand\u2019s interest and expertise, encouraging and facilitating information and cooperation activities between relevant experts, which is significant, and, again, designating a national contact point so that there can be free-flowing conversation between the two parties, and the ability for the parties to meet to establish, oversee, and evaluate cooperation activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThere are some other points in the environment cooperation agreement. I think it is a suitable addition to the closer economic partnership with Hong Kong. I look forward to such agreements becoming standard practice\u2014and only being strengthened\u2014in our trade relationships and our trade agreements with other nations as we proceed. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u0022e05b1c4431c4485883908f1852f004ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e05b1c4431c4485883908f1852f004ca\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in the Committee stage of the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill, which deals with the Hong Kong preferential trade agreement. What is interesting about this deal is that aside from the purely voluntary environmental and labour side agreements, which are not binding, there has been much talk in this discussion about the tremendous advantage that New Zealand has received as a result of the free-trade agreement between New Zealand and China. It is used as a kind of model, in some ways, to justify this. It is a very common and convenient rhetoric, but it is worth looking at the details of how the trade relationships between China and New Zealand have changed after the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EIf we look at the detail and try to use this as an argument for all the different preferential trade deals the Government is signing, including the one before us, we see that the big increase in New Zealand exports has been in dairy produce and in wood, and articles of wood. There is a very simple reason for that. What China really wants from New Zealand are these basic commodities: dairy produce and wood. China wants wood for its booming commodity sector. As Tim Groser described it, there is a giant sucking sound from China because China is sucking in completely unprocessed wood from New Zealand. It is a very cheap commodity. It had nothing to do with the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement whatsoever. The reason why we are sending a lot of wood to China is China wants wood, not because we have some piece of paper that some people happened to have signed and think is significant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe second big increase has been in dairy produce. The reason that there has been a big increase in dairy produce is the San Lu disaster with the contaminated milk, which was a catastrophe for many millions of Chinese parents and families. As a result, they wanted clean, green produce. The place they went to get clean, green dairy produce was New Zealand. They perceived New Zealand\u2019s food products to be environmentally sound, which in turn means they are safe for their children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ESo the two great increases in exports from New Zealand to China have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement. Even though it is used constantly by those who support an ideological position in favour of free trade, the truth is that the two big increases in commodity exports to China from New Zealand have nothing whatsoever to do with the free-trade agreement; it is simply used to justify the ideology of it. In understanding our relationship with China, we must not take a naive position. I think that a lot of the debate in this House is extremely naive in its attitude towards China. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe San Lu disaster is a very good example of that. We saw that the head of San Lu, Tian Wenhua, was both the chairwoman of San Lu and the head of San Lu\u2019s Communist Party of China branch, and the reasons for that were intimately connected. The Communist Party of China is the puppet master that runs all of the large corporations in China, including San Lu. In the lead-up to the Olympics in Beijing, there was an edict from the propaganda department. It said that people could not discuss food safety issues in the lead-up to the Olympics. It was produced by the propaganda department. Each week in China the propaganda department of the Communist Party of China sends out a list of topics that will not be discussed in the media that week, and one of the issues that were not allowed to be discussed in the weeks leading up to the Olympics was food safety issues. So Tian Wenhua, who was the chairwoman of San Lu\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b377d7dd80248e1ba6e74eb4ac814e6\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s this got to do with the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cb2cc8bfdd14e4cb1808f3ec8f2761f\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN\u003C/span\u003E: I can tell Mr Hayes that it has everything to do with the bill. This is about the effectiveness of these free-trade agreements. I am trying to explain to the Committee that this particular free-trade agreement with Hong Kong, like the one with China, is not very effective. If we look at the increase in dairy exports to China, we see it had nothing to do with the free-trade agreement and everything to do with San Lu. We can only understand San Lu if we understand the way in which the Communist Party of China controlled the company. In the lead-up to the Olympics the Communist Party said \u201CDo not discuss food safety issues.\u201D, so the chairwoman of San Lu had a choice. She could either obey the Communist Party of China, which said \u201CDo not discuss food safety issues in the lead-up to the Olympics\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae5832cae16f4400b351090e5f6affe5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae5832cae16f4400b351090e5f6affe5\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I was willing to listen to Dr Norman continue his speech, so I hope that he takes another call. It was not my intention to thieve the call from him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIn beginning my address I acknowledge that a lot of cooperation generally sits around trade matters within this House, and I think it is worth noting that for the wider public. When all the politicians from this House are out and about we consistently hear people asking why we do not agree more often on various issues. Trade negotiations are an area where we tend to see a certain level of cooperation for the benefit of New Zealand, ultimately, and I want to acknowledge that first up. However, I do also point out that even though this is an area in which we probably have some broad agreement cross-party, John Hayes can still find several areas where he would like to chip in with interjections and I am sure that I will not be safe from that, either, during my address. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge that this trade agreement is unlike, I believe, one of our last agreements, where we had a significant amount of debate and discussion within this place and in the media. That was in relation to New Zealand\u2019s free-trade agreement with China. Obviously there are significant differences between that agreement and what we are looking at here. In particular, Hong Kong already has very liberal trading laws that offer duty-free imports for all countries. But the closer economic partnership we are discussing today still offers additional benefits for New Zealand. However, I will highlight a little later on those areas that were identified as being of some risk to us and acknowledge those areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIt is also important to note that Hong Kong is our ninth-largest export destination\u2014at least it was in 2009. I think we frequently tend to home in on large Asian export destinations for New Zealand, but it is important to acknowledge that there are particular industries that benefit from our arrangements with places like Hong Kong, despite it being much smaller in comparison with the Chinese market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EA significant amount of time goes into these negotiations. Although in this Chamber we might be presented with a relatively small bill at the end of the work, this particular trade agreement held its roots as far back as, I believe, Jim Sutton originally. That alone points out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c50b63e7de1456e8b9de0ea2d5068d7\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, he sat on it and did nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b6fcdd32d5b4615b8aac0a401f09d91\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014it did not take John Hayes long\u2014the amount of work that goes into these agreements. Of course, Phil Goff, who has his stamp on a number of these agreements from when he was the trade Minister, put a lot of work into this agreement and I want to recognise that at this point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAlthough we have already acknowledged the benefits of this particular closer economic partnership, it is important to note the challenges that such partnerships can pose for our own internal markets. This one is different in that it has been acknowledged up front that Hong Kong as a market is more heavily focused on services rather than on the cheap manufacture of goods, which has in the past been an area where we have seen our local manufacturers undercut. Very early on in the piece New Zealand acknowledged that in order to survive in an increasingly globalised world we were going to have to accept that that was going to happen and not only try to cushion that as much as possible but also identify those niche markets where we could continue to carve out a space for New Zealand as a value-added economy and one that can focus in on those areas where we have real strengths. I believe that research and development is emerging as one of those areas for this country. I would touch on the dairy industry, but perhaps I will wait for Dr Norman to continue his contribution on that area instead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe must acknowledge that New Zealand manufacturers of footwear and textiles are probably the ones that will be facing the greatest risk from this closer economic partnership. Some of those manufacturers have already fallen on hard times during the recession. Some local members of Parliament would have seen the pressures that those companies are facing. Historically those pressures have been accumulating through various other trade agreements and I do not think we could say that any one of those agreements in particular triggered them, but they do have a cumulative effect on some of our manufacturers. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b74035a139f04b0d991525e3aa61cbca\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not rude like that member; I let people finish. I have manners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d974d97e636b4449be9647b0ce0c2bf1\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: And very soon I will give the member a nod when I am handing back the baton to the Greens. I have one final point that I want to draw further on, which was a point made by my colleague Maryan Street in relation to an aspect of this closer economic partnership. The partnership has an environment agreement, with shared objectives between New Zealand and Hong Kong that are aimed at improving the environment and enhancing the capacity and capability of each country\u2019s Government agencies, research organisations, academic institutions, and businesses, in order to address trade and environment matters. I would like to hear a little more discussion within the Committee of what, in practical terms, that will mean for New Zealand, but as a starting point I think it is incredibly important to acknowledge that we need to negotiate and entrench in these agreements those areas of most value and worth to us not just in economic terms but in terms of our country\u2019s ideology. Environmental issues are some of those, but also our labour laws and practices and our values in that area must be entrenched in these agreements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThat is why I am particularly pleased that the closer economic partnership contains a labour memorandum of understanding. It states that although labour laws should not be used for protectionist measures\u2014obviously there are a number of reasons why that cannot be the case\u2014they should also not be weakened or reduced in order to increase trade and investment. Obviously that refers to the undercutting or loosening of labour laws, or a race to the bottom, as it were. It also provides a framework for New Zealand in which to raise concerns on labour issues with Hong Kong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI am particularly pleased to see this because whilst spending some time doing work with an international non-governmental organisation in a voluntary capacity over the years, I saw numerous cases of very loose arrangements by corporates in the US in particular. For example, corporates that had significant contracts with companies operating in the Philippines stated, within their own internal organisation, that their expectation was that labour laws be upheld within the company they were contracting in, and that the labour laws of that country be upheld, but we frequently saw that that was not the case. Yet who has the greatest lever to ensure that even the Philippines\u2019 labour laws are upheld other than the company that is holding that contract in its hands? Who has the power to say that if labour laws and minimum wage terms and conditions for workers are not upheld, it will not continue to maintain the contract? Obviously it is the company, and, if it is not the company, it must be the country that maintains that level of responsibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI am loath to burden or load too much weight on to the notion of corporate responsibility because I think there is a fine line between corporate responsibility and State neglect, so I think it is important that we have equal measures of both, and I think this closer economic partnership proves that it is possible to insert a country\u2019s values around labour laws as a whole into one of these agreements. On that note I am pleased to make a contribution to this debate. I look forward to hearing the remainder of the contribution from my colleague Dr Norman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u00224c1a1500be02449b9f46ea2ebc45d3fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c1a1500be02449b9f46ea2ebc45d3fc\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E We were talking about the role of free-trade agreements and the increase of the sale of dairy into China\u2014via Hong Kong but also directly into China\u2014and the fact that the New Zealand - China Free Trade Agreement has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that we have had an increase in dairy being sent to China. In fact, it is all to do with the San Lu disaster. One of the things that people do not realise is that San Lu was working jointly with Fonterra when, basically, it was directed by the Chinese Communist Party not to talk about the fact that it was killing children with the melamine-infected milk products it was selling to Chinese parents. The products were killing children across China and making many children in China very, very sick. But the Chinese Communist Party directed that the company was not to discuss anything to do with food safety in the lead-up to the Olympics, because the party did not want any disturbance of the positive propaganda it was getting around the world with the Olympics. So the Chinese Communist Party committee that controlled San Lu decided that it would not do a full recall. There was then a board meeting of San Lu, where there was a Fonterra representative. At that board meeting, which was the legal formal structure that controlled San Lu, a decision was made that there would be a full recall\u2014or at least that is what the Fonterra representative said. The Fonterra representative was on the phone at the board meeting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EAt that point, the Chinese Communist Party then overruled the board, and in fact decided not to have a full recall. That is the reality that stands behind our dealing with China. Many people look at the formal legal structure, such as of the board of San Lu, but in fact if we want to have a proper understanding of what kind of relationship we have with China, then we need to look at the fact that it is the Chinese Communist Party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231294011e14c4733acc1a0c704bcbe3c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave was sought for a wide-ranging debate over the four clauses within this bill, but I am struggling a wee bit to see the relevance of the member\u2019s point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203d20a715c0144de8418fdaa65a45f0b\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: So\u2019s everyone on TV.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e05a84d4bdd54903bcd4ee70e44cb977\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will take a walk if he is not careful. I am being as lenient as I can, but I ask the member to make the speech relevant to the four clauses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022800bc265881a4e378e840fc27e7fb0a5\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN\u003C/span\u003E: The relevance, for those who are struggling to see it, is that there has been much discussion in this debate\u2014which Mr Chairperson has allowed\u2014that these free-trade agreements increase trade with China. That has been the argument made. In fact, that is not true; it is just what people argue. If we look at the facts of the matter, we discover that the increase in trade to which people have been referring in the debate that Mr Chairperson has been allowing, is due to the fact of the San Lu disaster, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the argument that people have been making\u2014which is that it is because of the free-trade agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWe can understand the San Lu disaster only if we understand the role of the Chinese Communist Party within that company. The disaster had nothing to do with the formal legal structures that people imagine they are working with in China, such as the board of San Lu\u2014and those are the kinds of legal structures we are dealing with\u2014because in fact the real people who controlled San Lu were the Chinese Communist Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EIt may be of interest to people, in trying to understand the kind of relationship we are developing with China through these free-trade agreements, and other kinds of relationships, to know that in fact San Lu then paid an organisation called Baidu to censor all of the Internet searches for San Lu and milk powder. So all of the searches by parents inside China, who were trying to understand what was going on, were censored because San Lu paid for them to be censored. If that is the basis on which people became poisoned, and if that then resulted in a big increase in New Zealand\u2019s sales of milk products to China, it had nothing whatsoever to do with the free-trade agreement. People think that it had something to do with it, but Chinese parents were desperate for safe food to give to their children because of the San Lu disaster. The San Lu disaster happened because of the control of the Chinese Communist Party over the board of San Lu. Even though, formally speaking, the board was in control, in fact the Chinese Communist Party branch within San Lu controlled that organisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EIf members do not believe me, then I suggest they read something about it. A very good book called The Party, by Richard McGregor, explains the role of the Chinese Communist Party. He was a journalist for the Financial Times and spent many years living in China. If members read that book they will see that it mentions San Lu at some length, and explains why the New Zealand Government was duped into believing that the board of San Lu controlled that organisation when in fact the Chinese Communist Party controlled it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ELabour and National do deals with what they think is the Government: the President, the Prime Minister, and all the rest. Of course, the people who control what happens in China are the Chinese Communist Party; Government officials are merely the front. So the people with whom Labour and National are doing deals when they go to develop free-trade agreements or think they are doing a deal with\u2014say, Hu Jintao, the President of China\u2014are not the real powers. In fact Hu Jintao has his power because he is the Secretary-General of the Chinese Communist Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2aae8fa95ca42f9a6c0301bb6869f80\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I just note that the member persists in talking of a free-trade agreement with China. The bill we are on is about the New Zealand - Hong Kong economic partnership agreement. He is out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022684a6d0ba77f4fb585d590b50d5de277\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f4fd8442d8d407bba54a0256688bbab\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dffde162814423ab5bb8a93bc70fcda\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8dba37d12d04b3c91c6e5fc70786461\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN\u003C/span\u003E: The Hong Kong free-trade agreement will be brought into force as a result of this bill; this is one part of bringing it into force. It is the parallel agreement to the China agreement, so all of us have been discussing both together because they are intimately connected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c914d4fa06946c380bec709f585ad7d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is entitled to discuss other things for comparative purposes, but the whole thrust of the member\u2019s speech is not relevant, really, to the bill. Unless he comes back to the bill, I will terminate his speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f3628d9492c4bf3a73becaf2d5d054c\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN\u003C/span\u003E: This bill, by changing the tariff regime in New Zealand, implements the content of the Hong Kong deal\u2014the so-called free-trade deal. But it is not actually a free-trade deal. Anyone who knows anything about trade policy knows that this is a preferential trade deal, but that is kind of irrelevant because most people voting on this do not know anything about trade policy. It is actually a preferential deal\u2014that is, it creates a preferential treatment of goods and services between New Zealand and Hong Kong, and this bill implements that preferential trade deal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe parallel agreement that goes alongside that is the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement, which is also a preferential trade deal between New Zealand and China. Those two agreements sit side by side, and this bill implements some components\u2014only a small element\u2014of the Hong Kong - New Zealand preferential trade deal, because only a small element requires legislation to be changed. The large bulk of the Hong Kong - New Zealand preferential trade deal does not require legislation. It is only the parts about tariffs in particular that need changing. Of course, we already send our goods into Hong Kong tariff-free, so although we are reducing our tariffs, they are not reducing theirs. They do not need to, because we do not need any of this agreement to be able to get our goods into Hong Kong tariff-free. But let us put that to one side, because we all like to believe in the myth that we do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe problem we have when we are signing up to these agreements with China is that we imagine that with this deal we are signing up with something that looks like our Government. So we think that our Government is signing an agreement with the Hong Kong Government, or with the Chinese Government as the case may be, but in fact in China things do not work like that. The Governments there are actually the puppets, if you like, of the Chinese Communist Party. The leaders of the Chinese Communist Party are the puppet masters, and anyone who knows anything about the way China works will know that in fact it is the Chinese Communist Party that determines what happens. When we look at the parallel structures that look like New Zealand Government structures, we think they are very similar on the face of it. But they are not; they are quite different structures, which are secretly and entirely under the control of the Chinese Communist Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EI will just give members one example, just in case there are some doubters about this. Luo Gan, who was on the Politburo Standing Committee\u2014the body that controls the Chinese Communist Party\u2014until 2007, said: \u201CThere is no question where legal departments should stand. The correct stand is where the party stands.\u201D That means that courts in China are required to give verdicts that the Chinese Communist Party directs them to give. The courts are entirely under the control of the party. If we do not understand that the nature of China is different from the nature of New Zealand, and that all of the institutions\u2014the media, the courts\u2014are all under the control of the party, and not separate institutions, then we do not understand what we are dealing with when negotiating deals like this one. That is what happened to Fonterra with San Lu. Fonterra did not understand that that is what they were dealing with. In negotiating this deal, some do not understand that we are not negotiating with a Government that works in the same way as the New Zealand Government does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ESo when we sign up to this deal, we are not getting what we think we are getting; the way China works is very different from the way in which New Zealand works. That is why New Zealand has made so many mistakes in dealing with China, and San Lu was simply the worst of them. That is why we will continue to make mistakes until we understand exactly what we are dealing with when we sign up to treaties like this one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220713e98786dc4e8faf84281accf8c75a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clauses 1 to 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 3 (Flavell, Sharples, Turia); Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; M\u0101ori Party 2 (Harawira, Katene).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000568\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000569\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226f451721344f4a1b843facd66017cc5c\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022 data-id=\u002216ea85b8b977471eb2286dcd00ec63ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216ea85b8b977471eb2286dcd00ec63ad\u0022\u003EHon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Minister of Immigration) on behalf of the Minister of Trade:\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. On behalf of the Minister of Trade, I am pleased to move this third reading. The bill received its second reading and underwent its Committee of the whole House stage earlier today. It amends New Zealand\u2019s domestic legislation so that the New Zealand - Hong Kong closer economic partnership is ready to enter into force as soon as the Hong Kong Government has completed its internal processes on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe closer economic partnership agreement with Hong Kong is a further achievement in New Zealand\u2019s trade agenda. It stands to deliver real benefits to New Zealand businesses by guaranteeing tariff-free entry into the Hong Kong market, securing more certainty of access for our services suppliers, and providing a framework for regulatory cooperation and consultation. It is the first free-trade agreement that Hong Kong has signed outside mainland China. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has been striving to secure a trading agreement with Hong Kong for a number of years, including under previous administrations, for several reasons. Firstly, Hong Kong is an important business hub in Asia. Asia is increasingly important to New Zealand as a partner for regional trade integration, and it is a growing market for our exports. New Zealand\u2019s trade with the Asian region grew by 5 percent in the last 12 months, and it represents a massive $15 billion in annual export earnings for this country. Secondly, Hong Kong is strategically important as a platform from which New Zealand companies and products enter mainland China. This closer economic partnership complements our free-trade agreement with China, which was signed in April 2008 and is already delivering substantial benefits. Together, these two agreements deliver a golden opportunity for New Zealand businesses to launch or continue to expand into the growing and dynamic Chinese market. New Zealand will be the only country in the world to have free-trade agreements with both mainland China and Hong Kong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EHong Kong\u2019s wealth of experience in doing business with China, and its connections to the Chinese and other Asian markets are unrivalled. At the same time, it has a legal system very similar to that of New Zealand and an open, transparent business environment. This makes Hong Kong an excellent location for New Zealand businesses that are looking to launch into a complex and sometimes daunting Asian market. Hong Kong is a significant market in its own right. It is currently New Zealand\u2019s ninth-largest export destination. Merchandise trade between our two economies has been growing at an average of 7.5 percent per year for the past 5 years, and last year it was worth almost NZ$1 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThe closer economic partnership locks in duty-free access for all New Zealand exports to Hong Kong. This is a significant advantage over other countries, with which Hong Kong is able to raise tariffs on 14 percent of import lines at any time. In return, New Zealand is committed to phase out tariffs on imports from Hong Kong according to a schedule that is identical to the phasing under our free-trade agreement with China. The closer economic partnership is not just about goods; it also creates improved access for New Zealand service providers to Hong Kong. New Zealand providers will benefit from greater certainty of access into the Hong Kong services market, including private education, business services, environmental services, and logistics. This access is also future-proofed under the most favoured nation clause. Any preferential treatment that Hong Kong accords to other trading partners in future agreements in particular sectors will automatically be extended to New Zealand services suppliers. The closer economic partnership also extends the benefit of any liberalisation that Hong Kong makes domestically to New Zealand services suppliers in some currently reserved sectors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EUnder the closer economic partnership, New Zealand business people will benefit from the faster processing of applications for business visas, and short-term business visitors will be able to get a 90-day visa. Other aspects of the trading environment, such as customs procedures, sanitary and phytosanitary measures, technical barriers to trade, intellectual property competition, and e-commerce, receive comprehensive coverage in the closer economic partnership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EAlongside the closer economic partnership, New Zealand and Hong Kong have also entered into a memorandum of understanding on labour cooperation and an environmental cooperation agreement. I would also note that, contrary to Mr Russel Norman\u2019s assertion that the side agreements on labour and the environment are not legally binding, I can confirm that these agreements are, in fact, legally binding. These agreements complement the content of the trade agreement and reinforce issues of importance to both countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EAs part of the negotiations New Zealand and Hong Kong have also agreed to negotiate a comprehensive investment protocol within 2 years of the closer economic partnership\u2019s entry into force. Although it is envisaged that the investment protocol will provide strengthened disciplines and protections for investors, there is no intention that the protocol will alter the categories of investment that are subject to screening under the Overseas Investment Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EIn summary, this closer economic partnership with Hong Kong brings about significant advantages for New Zealand. It establishes a clear, certain, and effective framework for New Zealand companies to operate in a dynamic and rewarding market. It also complements our ground-breaking free-trade agreement with China. In other words, we now have an unparalleled opportunity to increase our exports to a region that will continue to be of central importance to our economy in both the short and long term. I acknowledge the efforts of the officials, of former Ministers of Trade, and also of the stakeholders who contributed to this excellent outcome. I also acknowledge and thank the members of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee for their consideration of the Hong Kong closer economic partnership bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EThis bill will amend the Tariff Act 1988 by inserting \u201CHong Kong, China\u201D into the list of preferential countries in note 3 of the Tariff. This is the only statutory amendment that is required to give effect to the closer economic partnership. Following this amendment, other amendments by regulation will also be required in order to enable the application of preferential tariff rates under the closer economic partnership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603ae58e-47c4-46f9-bfc8-8355a48988ad\u0022\u003EOur prosperity as a nation depends on our ability to trade and invest on the world market. We also depend on there being robust rules to govern trade and remove barriers so that our traders can compete fairly. These goals are embodied in this closer economic partnership, which will benefit New Zealanders and which is supported by the majority of members in this House. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8842cf6b79045febf4739382ce36892\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8842cf6b79045febf4739382ce36892\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the third reading of the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill. I suppose that one of the dangers of taking an agreement like this and a bill of this nature through the House under urgency is the temptation to simply repeat what one has said in one\u2019s first reading speech or, in the case of today, one\u2019s second reading speech. So I will try to say some different things from what I said in my previous speeches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EFirst of all, I acknowledge all of the trade Ministers who have had a hand in this matter, from Jim Sutton through to Phil Goff and now Tim Groser. Each of these trade Ministers has served New Zealand interests well and has got this closer economic partnership to the point where we can now pass its third reading this evening. I commend all of those Ministers for the assiduousness with which they pursued New Zealand\u2019s interests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI also recognise officials, who have provided a lot of the backbone to the negotiations. I particularly mention Julian Ludbrook as an official who has been intimately involved for many years in the development of this closer economic partnership. His expertise and his knowledge are both legendary and encyclopaedic. It is fitting that this House acknowledge his efforts on our behalf. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe critical points of this closer economic partnership go to the relationship between New Zealand and Hong Kong. A school of thought abroad that is often given witness to by this Government is that foreign affairs equals trade and trade is foreign affairs. This party begs to differ. Foreign affairs is about relationships. It is about developing the kinds of trusting and constructive relationships that allow trade agreements to be struck. Those trade agreements are never struck in a vacuum; they are always agreed on in the context of ongoing relationships. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has had a relationship with Hong Kong for a very long time. I think it is currently our ninth or 10th largest export destination; it accounted for something in the order of $800 million worth of trade last year. New Zealand imported $199 million of merchandised goods from Hong Kong last year, making it the 31st largest source of imported goods. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EHong Kong is important because of not only the volume of trade that is conducted, which has been increasing over time, but also its geopolitical significance. This closer economic partnership hopes and intends to capitalise on Hong Kong\u2019s regional and geographical presence in order to smooth the way of businesses into trade in China. More than that, Hong Kong has for a long time been a very significant regional presence because it is a hub. It works as a shipping hub, a financial transactions hub, and a gateway to China. It has a deal of significance on many levels, but each of them that I am describing at the moment are particularly practical. They are about facilitating trade not only into China through Hong Kong but also elsewhere in the Asia-Pacific region for New Zealand producers and manufacturers. It has regional, geographical, and facilitating significance, which should not be ignored. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EOne of our largest exports to Hong Kong is live crayfish. I think that that industry will benefit from the conditions that are contained in this closer economic partnership. As the tariffs reduce to 2016, it will signify a considerable improvement in profit and, effectively, productivity for our exporters. A small but extremely efficient export business in South Auckland is busy putting out as many crayfish as it legally can to Hong Kong. The crayfish are in a very good state, which makes them a highly desirable commodity for Hong Kong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EAmongst the top 20 imports from Hong Kong into New Zealand are, of course, machinery parts, telephone equipment, and computers. That will come as no surprise to anybody who picks up a mobile phone in New Zealand. This closer economic partnership will enhance mutual benefits, not only by the reduction in tariffs, which align with the free-trade agreement with China and its regime of tariff reduction, but also\u2014in the case of this closer economic partnership\u2014with trade in services. We are able to trade a vast array of services with Hong Kong on a regular and an improved basis that will enhance New Zealand\u2019s profitability and wealth, and will serve to exchange knowledge and services in a way that can do both parties only good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI welcome this closer economic partnership. I pay tribute to those who have contributed to it, and I thank the chair of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, John Hayes, for his part in shepherding this closer economic partnership through the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EWe are a trading nation. We have for decades traded in commodities. We are good at it and we need to consider how to add value to our commodities in order to improve the wealth that we can gain from trade. With this closer economic partnership we are seeing a new opportunity, something quite expansive in terms of business services, communications services, and all kinds of services apart from education, which already exists in Hong Kong as a substantial service from New Zealand. That makes this closer economic partnership something that, I think, can be a model or a template for future trade agreements. The concentration on services gives me great heart for the future of our country. There is a limit to how much we can produce in the way of agricultural produce, and we should be getting smarter about the goods and services that we export. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI join with the Minister of Immigration who is acting on behalf of the Minister of Trade tonight, and commend this closer economic partnership agreement to the House in its third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u002202cb092d2c8443bd9a4ebc72a61c5411\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202cb092d2c8443bd9a4ebc72a61c5411\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me considerable pleasure to stand in the House now in the third reading of the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill. I join with those who have already congratulated the Prime Minister and Tim Groser on their work in activating this bill after 8 years of stagnation following Jim Sutton\u2019s intervention in 2001. We are doing this because it is really important that innovation provides access to world markets. Many of those crayfish that Maryan Street talked about actually begin in Ngaw\u012B or somewhere off the Wairarapa coast, so this is immensely important to my electorate. It is also immensely important because the comparative advantage of this country is in exporting food, whether it is dairy products, meat, vegetables, horticultural products, or even wine. That is really fundamentally important to people living in provincial New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EThis agreement is incredibly important because it is part of the Government\u2019s focus on free trade and on improving access for our exporters to world markets. As I said earlier today, that is a priority of the Prime Minister\u2019s. He mentioned it in this Parliament in February in his Prime Minister\u2019s statement. He knows, and we on this side of the House know, that it is only by lifting our economic performance that we can create jobs, boost incomes, improve living standards, and provide the world-class services that Kiwi families deserve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003EI must say that the Green Party has got it wrong. The Green Party may have got it right in Australia, but the Greens are seriously wrong here. The reason is that Green members do not seem to understand that these agreements lead to jobs, employment, and to the buying of things like Herceptin and other expensive drugs for use in our communities. We have to accept, and the Green Party must accept, that there is a huge change in the world\u2019s geopolitical tectonic plates. China is on a growth curve and we need to understand that by 2050 China\u2019s average standard of living will be half that of America\u2019s. We need to understand that even in the period of the next 12 years, if China\u2019s average growth is only half what it is today, there will be hundreds of millions in the middle class and tens of millions in its upper class. The purpose of this agreement is to give our producers access to those people. Even now\u2014and I accept some of the Greens\u2019 assertions about the difficulties of dealing with China\u2014the Communist Party of China will have to deal with issues such as providing retirement benefits, health insurance, and access to health care. It will have to build infrastructure, deal with a lack of drinking water and sewerage systems, fight corruption, and find work for hundreds of millions of people. It is fundamentally important that New Zealand stays linked to those processes, and that is why I support this agreement, and the Government supports it. We look forward to passing this bill at its third reading. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022af109b405e7e4de8a339d8c006a976be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af109b405e7e4de8a339d8c006a976be\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E It is with some pleasure that I rise to speak on the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill. Like some of the speakers before me, I acknowledge those Ministers who have contributed to this bill over a number of years, starting with Jim Sutton and including Phil Goff and Tim Groser. I also acknowledge Julian Ludbrook, who, as my colleague Maryan Street said, has been in many ways a font of knowledge and an extremely wise asset to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, in being able to shepherd this sort of negotiation through quite a complex phase. I do not forget the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee or John Hayes\u2019 ability to take on some of these issues, to question rigorously the ministry, and to ensure that we have a very good agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EAs other speakers before me have said, this is an important bill because it will enable an application of preferential tariff rates under the closer economic partnership. Hong Kong already has, as many of us know, very liberal trading laws that offer duty-free imports for many countries, and this closer economic partnership will add additional benefits. Not only is Hong Kong an important market in its own right as our ninth-largest export destination in 2009, but also it provides strategically\u2014and I think John Hayes touched on this\u2014a vital foothold for New Zealand businesses in gaining access to an expanding greater Chinese market. As has been said, we are the only country in the world to hold an agreement of this nature with both China and Hong Kong. It amplifies the important position the two countries occupy in terms of what our economy will face in the future. Building economic relationships with Asia in general, but specifically Hong Kong, is vital to New Zealand\u2019s future economic prosperity. Those are the major developing and expanding markets, and, as New Zealand depends so much on our exports, the closer economic partnership is another step in that direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThe agreement has been evaluated both positively and negatively by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade. One of the negative impacts it could have is an impact on manufacturers of footwear and some textiles. That is something that has come up in other free-trade agreements before it. I think that with the degree of phase-out period for the tariffs in this particular case, it will allow those businesses in New Zealand to be able to adjust and hopefully maintain and develop into a higher-niche occupation in terms of our manufacturing. In terms of both labour rights and environmental sustainability, again, they are most important values to New Zealand and to New Zealanders. They are core values that should not be sacrificed in the pursuit of increased trade. Under the closer economic partnership, from what we can see, much of that issue is contained in the environmental agreement with shared objectives and the labour memorandum of understanding, which states that labour laws should not be used for protectionist measures and that they should also not be weakened or reduced to increase trade and investment. That too is locked into this agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThere are a range of advantages for New Zealand. Many of them have been traversed earlier, but they include better access and service in the key sectors of business, communications, and environmental services. We will achieve through this agreement favoured nation status, enabling New Zealand exporters to benefit from the preferential treatment that Hong Kong provides to its future free-trade agreement partners. That will certainly ensure that we have a much better, more sustainable, and stronger relationship as we go into the future. The closer economic partnership, as others have mentioned, is future-proofed to a large degree by the ratchet clause, which states that any future unilateral liberalisation in Hong Kong, such as in education, will apply under this agreement. Although not included in the closer economic partnership, New Zealand and Hong Kong have agreed in a legally binding exchange of letters to negotiate an investment protocol within 2 years of the partnership coming into force. In a sense, we are gaining advantages, ensuring safeguards, and ensuring that the agreement is robust enough to be able to be taken forward into the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has been at the vanguard of many of the free-trade agreements throughout the world. As many people know, we were the first to make such an agreement with China, and under this bill we now have a free-trade agreement with Hong Kong. Our exports to China have increased by 65 percent in the short time since 2008, when Phil Goff negotiated that agreement with China. It was historic and it has meant that China is now our second-largest export market. It is likely to become even more important into the future. If we look back, it is a long way from 1972, when New Zealand shipped practically two-thirds or three-quarters of its exports to the UK. When the UK joined the European Economic Community, we were suddenly faced with the reality that we needed to find other markets. In under 5 years, the proportion of exports that we were sending to the UK was under 20 percent. That, in a sense, is a remarkable achievement when we look back in history. It shows that when New Zealand faces adversity like that, we are able to respond and be flexible. I think those were the historic antecedents that formed the basis for our looking outward and our capacity to look at other countries, in terms of free-trade agreements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EWe are very good at diversifying our trading partners, but I would argue that we are not so good in terms of diversifying our economy. Our economy has largely stayed reliant on those same products that we once exported to the UK, back in 1972. If there is one weakness and one underlying factor of the way in which our economy has been declining over the last few years, it is the fact that the relative wealth we are achieving from our exported commodities, in particular, is not keeping pace with the imported manufactured goods that we need for our economy. I will give just a small anecdote. A couple of weeks ago I was visiting Scion, the Crown research institute in Rotorua that does research into forestry and our forest products. It has developed amazing products, such as plastics made out of wood, biofuels made from wood products, etc. The biggest failing, of course, is that right now most of our forests are effectively owned by foreigners. Although much of that technology could not increase our value-added exports, it is not even able to be applied. Instead, as Russel Norman mentioned, we are shipping logs offshore to China in an untreated, unfinished, and unprocessed way, and we are not achieving what we could be from our primary products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u0022e03824d814b64062a332de3e19fde2fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e03824d814b64062a332de3e19fde2fa\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to speak on the third reading of the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill, which implements some parts of the Hong Kong - New Zealand preferential trade agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EI will touch on a couple of issues raised in the last speech on this bill, which was from David Shearer. The first is some of the broader problems with these kinds of treaties, particularly the investment clauses. Secondly, why doing a deal with the Communist Party of China is particularly naive and stupid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EIn terms of the investment clauses in these treaties, currently there is an exchange of letters developing the investment parts of this treaty, but no doubt it will be very similar to the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement and will be modelled along the same lines. Effectively, the investment clauses in these treaties lock in existing overseas investment rules, so we cannot tighten the overseas investment rules beyond what they currently are without breaching the terms of the investment clauses within these treaties. So if we, as a democratically elected Parliament, were to decide that we want stronger rules around overseas investment than we currently have, and we changed those rules, we would be breaching the terms of the treaty we have signed with China and the terms of the treaty, through the exchange of letters, that is very likely to be signed with Hong Kong. In spite of all the rhetoric from Labour and National that they are concerned about the sell-off of farms, tonight they are supporting a bill that locks in the current investment rules and means that we cannot tighten them. If we look at article 138 or article 141 of the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement, we will see that that is exactly what that agreement says. We cannot tighten those rules without breaching the terms of the agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ESecondly, I would like to draw attention to the clauses on expropriation. In the New Zealand - China free-trade deal, and there are parallels with the Hong Kong deal, there are clauses about expropriation, particularly indirect expropriation. That means that if we tighten the rules on environmental regulation, with the result that a foreign investor in New Zealand loses money, then New Zealand is required to compensate that person for the loss of the value of his or her business. These cases go to an international tribunal, and the case is decided on by a three-person panel. That panel can decide that, in fact, the New Zealand Government has indirectly expropriated from a particular business by changing, for example, environmental rules or by tightening environmental rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThese treaties are set up to tie the hands of democratically elected Governments to make it harder for those Governments to regulate capital and business activities. I have no idea why Labour and National wish to restrict the ability of democratically elected Governments to regulate to protect the environment or to protect labour standards, but there we have it. Why we would want to sign up to a treaty that means we cannot tighten overseas investment rules to stop the sell-off of farms to overseas owners is beyond me, but that is what Labour and National want to do. Well, if people vote for Labour or National, then that is exactly what they will get. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe other issues are labour and the environment. Much has been made of the side agreements on labour and environmental issues. We have seen side agreements with lots of these free-trade deals and they mean nothing. These side agreements mean absolutely nothing. Let us remember that the Chinese Communist Party is, right now, locking up trade unionists who are independent of the All-China Federation Trade Unions. There is an organisation called the All-China Federation Trade Unions, which is the union controlled by the Chinese Communist Party. If people step outside of that union and become independent unionists, they are locked up and put in jail\u2014literally. These side agreements about labour mean absolutely nothing, because the Chinese Communist Party has made it very clear that it is extremely hostile towards independent trade unionists. People whom we would consider legitimate, like members of the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions, would all be in jail if they lived in China. That kind of independent trade union activity is absolutely illegal in China; people cannot do it. So let us stop pretending that somehow there is some kind of independent trade union movement in China. Well, there are people trying to have an independent trade union movement, but they are the ones who are locked up and put in jail. So side agreements around labour and environmental standards mean very little. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWhat really stands behind this kind of negotiation between Labour and National in New Zealand and the Chinese Communist Party is an incredible naivety and maybe a wilful ignorance about the nature of the Chinese Communist Party that Labour and National are negotiating with. Let us remind ourselves of the nature of the Chinese Communist Party that we are negotiating this treaty with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe Chinese Communist Party has eradicated all political rivals. There are no political rivals in China; it is a one-party State\u2014try to do something different! It has eliminated the autonomy of the courts. The courts must implement the decisions of the Chinese Communist Party. China does not have an independent judiciary. That is what we are dealing with. It has eliminated the autonomy of the press. Every week the propaganda department of the Chinese Communist Party literally puts out instructions as to what can and cannot be covered in the media in China. The Chinese Communist Party, which Labour and National are so intent on negotiating this treaty with, has restricted religion. Of course, it has locked out the Falun Gong. Civil society is extremely restricted. It has centralised all political power, it has extensive networks of security police, and dissidents are routinely sent to labour camps. But Labour and National are very happy to negotiate with the Chinese Communist Party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022868ad2ef04784c31bb7b62d45b701eb8\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member, but I am having difficulty hearing him. Can I ask that the other discussions that are going on be held at a lower level or out in the lobbies, please. I want to hear what the member has to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6c952f1b8df44a093942a5eb63dbebf\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN\u003C/span\u003E: It is very important when negotiating this treaty that we understand the kind of organisation we have been negotiating with. We also need to understand what the Chinese Communist Party wants from New Zealand. What the Chinese Communist Party wants from New Zealand is raw commodities. That is actually what this treaty is about. The treaty is about getting access to raw commodities coming out of New Zealand. What China particularly wants access to is dairy and lumber\u2014timber products\u2014and other kinds of commodities. The whole purpose of negotiating this treaty, from the side of the Chinese Communist Party\u2014both the Hong Kong one and the Chinese one, which work in parallel\u2014is to get access to New Zealand\u2019s primary commodities. People say that the treaty is about something else, but from the Chinese Communist Party\u2019s side that is what it is all about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe strategy of the Chinese Communist Party has been incredibly intelligent. China has had extremely low wages, it has built up enormous reserves, and now, with those enormous reserves, it is going out and buying up commodity producers and natural resources all around the planet. That is why we see the current interest from Natural Dairy in dairy farms in New Zealand. China is trying to buy up farms in New Zealand so that it can send commodities back to Hong Kong. The treaty that Labour and National are so very keen on negotiating will facilitate the ability of Natural Dairy to buy dairy farms in New Zealand and export the dairy produce back to Hong Kong. Natural Dairy is a company listed on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange, and this treaty that Labour and National have signed with the Chinese Communist Party will facilitate the ability of Natural Dairy to buy dairy farms in New Zealand, because we will not be able to tighten the overseas investment rules. This treaty puts a ratchet clause on the overseas investment rules. According to this treaty we cannot tighten the overseas investment rules. So Natural Dairy will have increased ability to buy up dairy farms. The treaty also makes sure that the goods coming out of those dairy farms that Natural Dairy buys in New Zealand are exported back to Hong Kong and, ultimately, China. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EFrom the point of view of China and Hong Kong\u2014Hong Kong is part of China\u2014they want access to these kinds of commodities. They are in a process of buying up farmland all around the planet\u2014not just in New Zealand but all around the planet\u2014and buying up mineral reserves in order to get access to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EPeople may remember the controversy about Rio Tinto and the fact that Chinalco, the big Chinese aluminium company, tried to prevent the amalgamation of BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto. That was part of the same strategy. The Chinese Communist Party wants to get access to natural resources all around the planet in order to get them back to China, which makes perfect sense. This treaty is part of that strategy. Why would the Chinese Communist Party not sign it? Of course it will sign up, if New Zealand is silly enough to sign a treaty that makes it easier for the Chinese to buy farmland in New Zealand and get access to dairy products. Of course it would sign it; it makes sense for the Chinese Communist Party to sign it. The question is whether it makes sense for New Zealand. Of course, the answer is that it does not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThat is why the Green Party will not be voting for this bill. It is a silly treaty and we should not be part of it. It is bad for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022198455c3fe684fdcba1756b5ae725ec1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022198455c3fe684fdcba1756b5ae725ec1\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Deputy Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa, i t\u0113nei p\u014D. The mere fact that we have a split vote in the M\u0101ori Party obviously indicates that there is a degree of support but also that an opportunity has arisen through our vote to register some serious issues we had raised. I cannot say that they align with Dr Norman\u2019s too much but certainly there are some concerns, nevertheless. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is on record as having a range of concerns about the impact of free-trade agreements. Our major concern is the long-term prosperity of workers and businesses. We are concerned also about the protection of New Zealand\u2019s markets, tariff rates, biosecurity, environmental issues, including climate change, and overseas investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAs has been spoken about, this bill implements a bilateral trade agreement\u2014namely, the New Zealand - Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement. The amendment to the tariff will enable the application of preferential tariff rates to be applied to goods imported from Hong Kong. The New Zealand - Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement largely mirrors, as Dr Norman talked about, New Zealand\u2019s prior free-trade agreement with China. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EDue to liberalising our laws, we have a concern about businesses and workers, including M\u0101ori, that may be forced to produce their goods at the lowest cost by taking production offshore. Of course, the logical consequences of taking production offshore are both job losses at home while also willingly providing New Zealanders with an opportunity\u2014as if they needed it\u2014to buy overseas goods rather than those made in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESo where will the impact be most profound? Well, the free-trade agreement\u2019s greatest negative impact has been on the manufacturing sector, which has a high M\u0101ori and Pacific Island workforce. Although there has been some comment passed that M\u0101ori businesses may stand to be disadvantaged by this approach, the impact is felt more by M\u0101ori workers in the manufacturing sector, regardless of who owns the businesses. From what we can work out, the loss of the manufacturing base has had an impact only on M\u0101ori businesses in the manufacturing sector. Two examples I can cite are those located in \u014Cp\u014Dtiki, owned by Te Whakat\u014Dhea, and in South Auckland. The name of the firm is KT Footwear and the person who led the company was Karroll Brent-Edmondson. Both firms manufactured footwear, and both closed as a result of cheap imports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EBy far, the most enduring legacy of the free-trade agreement will be on the M\u0101ori workforce. As at June 2008, 12,000 M\u0101ori were employed in the agriculture, forestry, and fishing primary production area; and 29,000 M\u0101ori were employed in the manufacturing area. M\u0101ori laid off from a factory in New Zealand did not get jobs in New Zealand - owned factories that relocated to low-wage, Asian economies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWe know full well that the huge appetite the world has for primary produce in emerging super-power Asian countries like China will not change as a result of some of the M\u0101ori Party voting against this bill. We also know that many M\u0101ori businesses are looking to advance the promise of prosperity. This is a key objective of our policy manifesto He Aha Te Mea Nui? He Tangata, He Tangata, He Tangata; we will incentivise wh\u0101nau and family businesses to grow. We want to see M\u0101ori businesses develop and also to increase employment, but we cannot ignore the fact that in the latest household labour force survey M\u0101ori unemployment went up from 14.2 percent to 16.4 percent. That means 26,400 M\u0101ori are now without jobs\u2014an increase of 3,600 since the previous quarter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI need to say that another part of our He Aha Te Mea Nui? He Tangata, He Tangata, He Tangata manifesto was to invest in development programmes that will forecast the long-term opportunities and skills required to increase productivity and economic growth. This is where we get caught between a rock and a hard place. M\u0101ori concerns in regard to manaakitanga and how workers in both countries are being treated in regard to workers\u2019 rights and minimum standards on labour issues have long been an issue for our party. The lack of recognition of tangata whenua in free-trade agreements and in incidental tariffs with overseas partners undermines the Treaty of Waitangi, but, on the other hand, we will never stand in the way of allowing M\u0101ori businesses to thrive. That is why we obviously have arrived at a position of voting: two members opposed and three members in favour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00229a0adbeb9b0345519330360187d34018\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a0adbeb9b0345519330360187d34018\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E The Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill is an excellent bill and represents a huge opportunity for New Zealand exporting business. My speeches in this debate have focused on the agricultural sector because that is the nature of the electorate I am proud to represent. I conclude my contribution to this debate by saying, once again, that this free-trade agreement with Hong Kong and China presents New Zealand with an opportunity, and it is now up to the agricultural sector to take advantage of that opportunity. I have talked about sheep and beef farmers, and I quickly mention our dairy industry, which takes up a third of the world\u2019s dairy trade. We are a significant international player in the dairy sector, and this free-trade agreement presents a further opportunity for Fonterra in New Zealand. Food is valued by the world. We in New Zealand tend to take that for granted, but our food, our milk products, our sheep and beef products, and all the other products we produce are a valued commodity. I say, again, in commending this bill to the House that this represents an excellent opportunity and builds on the excellent work of the Minister of Trade, Tim Groser, and the Prime Minister, John Key. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u00223a76ad649b054b4e81a85acb548d4e4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a76ad649b054b4e81a85acb548d4e4e\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E It is indeed a pleasure to speak on the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill. It is an excellent piece of work and it is clearly supported by both the major parties. I was particularly interested in hearing the Hon Pete Hodgson wax philosophical for a moment, pointing out that the two major parties agree, and have agreed for a long time, on the huge value of expediting and ensuring greater trade and greater exports, because they are the lifeblood of our country. But I was concerned to hear the Hon Peter Hodgson in some respect excuse the Greens for the stance that they take. I must say that it is some concern to read the Green Party minority view, which suggests that the Government theory on trade is flawed. It has been a pleasure from time to time to hear the sonorous, if not soporific, speeches of Dr Kennedy Graham. But tonight, unfortunately, we had to listen to the nasal narrative of Dr Russel Norman, and that is simply another matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThere is no doubt that, as time goes on, China\u2019s exports to New Zealand will increase in both quality and in price. In fact, the other day when I was down in Newmarket, one of the furniture manufacturers told me that some of the more expensive Chinese products are actually more expensive than the New Zealand - made ones. So there is no doubt that, as time goes on, it is very important to have this continual ability to improve our products, to have the constant need to keep on our toes, to constantly innovate so that we improve our products, and to improve our trade. I commend this bill in its third reading to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ef39ee32c72b419f9a3c50493e033368\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Tariff (New Zealand-Hong Kong, China Closer Economic Partnership Agreement) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 3 (Flavell, Sharples, Turia); Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 7\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 7; M\u0101ori Party 2 (Harawira, Katene).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bf04b40d9e844aa7975554e236f5bd2b\u0022\u003ETrans-Tasman Proceedings Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002200e69e1422834fb9b0d622466e4be7d1\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022aaa9c684acb543138cace4fd3dc27739\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aaa9c684acb543138cace4fd3dc27739\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Justice: I move, That the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill be now read a second time. The bill contains a package of new measures aimed at resolving civil disputes involving both the Australian and New Zealand jurisdictions more effectively and at lower cost. It will also improve regulatory enforcement between New Zealand and Australia to the benefit of both countries. The bill implements the Agreement between the Government of New Zealand and the Government of Australia on Trans-Tasman Court Proceedings and Regulatory Enforcement, a document signed by the previous Government in 2008. The Australian Parliament passed the equivalent Trans-Tasman Proceedings Act 2010 in March this year. The Australian Act mirrors this bill as introduced except where differences were necessary due to different legal and political contexts. The new regime to be created by the bill and the Australian Act is one of several initiatives that the Government is progressing to help bring about a single economic market between the two countries. As the Prime Minister said in his statement to Parliament in February, the single economic market is to be given a new impetus this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI thank the Justice and Electoral Committee for its consideration of the bill, particularly within a shortened time frame. The committee made a number of recommendations to improve the operation of the new regime on both sides of the Tasman and aligned the bill more closely with the Australian Act. For example, proceedings filed but not served before the legislation comes into force will be able to be served on defendants in Australia under the new service arrangements in the bill. However, the bill as introduced meant that those defendants would not have been able to apply for the New Zealand proceedings to be stayed using the new test in the bill. They would also not have been able to appear by video link as of right at a hearing of their application. The committee recommended a change to ensure that all defendants served with proceedings under the bill are able to apply for those proceedings to be stayed under the new arrangements. I expect that the Australian Act will be amended to reflect that change and other changes recommended by the committee where necessary for the two statutes to remain aligned. The committee recommended, for example, that the purpose clause of the bill be changed to mirror the purpose section of the Australian Act. This is important, because purpose sections are used as an aid to interpretation by the courts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe committee also recommended that a provision be inserted to clarify that the trans-Tasman evidence regime, which is being extended to criminal matters, will operate in parallel with the Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters Act. There is already an equivalent provision in the Australian Act. The committee also made recommendations to ensure that the bill worked in the New Zealand context. The New Zealand Law Society submitted that it was important that the bill allow rules to be made to implement the new regime not only under the Judicature Act and the District Courts Act but also under the Family Courts Act, because aspects of this bill will apply to many Family Court proceedings. The committee agreed and recommended that the bill allow rules to be made using any power to make procedural rules for a court or tribunal. That raises an important point, namely that the bill is relevant to business and personal civil disputes. Australia is the biggest market for our manufactured products, a crucial source of our foreign investment, an important source of our skills, and a significant source of our tourism earnings, but with more than 460,000 New Zealanders living in Australia, our personal relationships also bridge the Tasman Sea. This bill will span those different spheres by making it easier to resolve disputes that arise with connections to both New Zealand and Australia and will allow a greater range of judgments to be enforced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill is an example of the level of integration that can be achieved between these two civil justice systems where both countries share a common legal heritage and each country has sufficient confidence in the other\u2019s judicial and regulatory institutions. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00221e2eda892575408c8d08dd1342b82a28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e2eda892575408c8d08dd1342b82a28\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E My involvement in the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill, which we have before the House, dates back to 2003 when I was an Associate Minister of Justice and was instrumental in establishing the Trans-Tasman Working Group on Court Proceedings and Regulatory Enforcement. That is where the whole process began. It is therefore particularly satisfying that I am able to contribute to the final set of legislative steps that need to be taken for it to be enacted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThere obviously has been a lot of water under the bridge since 2003. It was just a matter of luck or chance that I was able to step in for the Attorney-General at the time and sign the Agreement between the Government of New Zealand and the Government of Australia on Trans-Tasman Court Proceedings and Regulatory Enforcement. I have even brought a copy of it down to the House, because it does have my signature on it\u2014and I am kind of proud of that\u2014on behalf of the Government of New Zealand. The Attorney-General of Australia at the time, Robert McClelland, signed for the Government of Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a56f51d6ede4ea287b63049b1124c57\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: He still is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be4f115025884ec1810b162804e786e1\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: He still is the Attorney-General at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe reason I mention that is that I had the wonderful opportunity of being at the signing ceremony, which was conducted at the High Court in Christchurch, which of course is my home town. There are not going to be many opportunities in my life to sit on the bench of the High Court, but I had the opportunity on that occasion, and it was a great honour to be able to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI think it is worthwhile reading out the preamble to the agreement that we signed that day, because the preamble encapsulates the essence of the legislation that we have before the House and that will conclude its stages while the House is in urgency. \u201CThe Government of New Zealand and the Government of Australia \u2026 Conscious of their long-standing friendship and close historic, political and economic relationship; Recognising the development of that relationship through the framework established by the Australia New Zealand Closer Economic Relations Trade Agreement done at Canberra on 28 March 1983, and subsequent arrangements and agreements developed within that framework of which this Agreement forms a part; Acknowledging each Party\u2019s confidence in the judicial and regulatory institutions of the other Party; Affirming their shared commitment to appropriate and effective resolution of trans-Tasman civil disputes and increased regulatory cooperation; Desiring therefore to establish a new trans-Tasman regime, building on the existing cooperative regime covering the taking of evidence and associated court procedures, to further streamline aspects of civil court proceedings and regulatory enforcement and reduce unnecessary procedural and regulatory barriers to the conduct of litigation; Have agreed as follows:\u201D. And there follow the pages of the agreement, including the articles that have now been translated into the legislative form before the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWhat we have seen happen over the period I have mentioned, from 2003 to 2010, has been a significant step, because there has been willingness on both sides of the Tasman to place trust in each other\u2019s judicial and regulatory processes. I think that is absolutely fundamental to the development of the single economic market that the Attorney-General spoke about. The proposals in that agreement took the innovation and cooperation that had already existed with the CER to a new level, and I think it has established itself as a very important fundamental from a civil justice perspective, as it will improve the resolution of legal disputes that involve parties and/or assets on either side of the Tasman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ELooking at the magnitude of the problem, I reflect back on the regulatory impact statement. Tragically, in a way, this was one of the last pieces of legislation to be tabled in this House that had the regulatory impact statement included in the explanatory note. The useful thing about having this information at hand when we are debating legislation is that it states the problem that the legislation is designed to address. I think it is instructive to look at what that actually means in the context of this legislation. Here we have a statement of the magnitude of the increase in the movement of people, assets, and services between New Zealand and Australia, and I think those figures are worth recalling for the record. In 2006 over 900,000 Australians visited New Zealand and well over 1 million New Zealanders visited Australia, almost 450,000 New Zealanders live in Australia, and around 60,000 Australians live in New Zealand. In the year ended June 2006\u2014it is a little out of date now\u2014goods exported from Australia to New Zealand came to NZ$7.641 million and goods exported from New Zealand to Australia came to NZ$6.806 million. In the year ended September 2006 New Zealand exports of services to Australia came to NZ$2.387 million, and Australian exports to New Zealand came to NZ$3.588 million. As at 31 March 2006 total Australian investment in New Zealand was in the region of NZ$68 billion, and total New Zealand investment in Australia was in the region of NZ$25 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe point is made in the regulatory impact statement that \u201CThis leads inevitably to a greater number of disputes involving individuals or businesses with a cross-border element. Under the Australia New Zealand Closer Economic Relations Agreement (CER) and the work around achieving a Single Economic Market with Australia (SEM), each country also has a significant interest in the effectiveness of existing regulatory regimes, such as the Commerce and Securities Acts and their Australian equivalents, to ensure that limits to the reach of each country\u2019s regulatory system are not exploited and that consumers have effective redress.\u201D I think the fact that the regulatory impact statement actually mentions the importance of ensuring that the reach of each country\u2019s regulatory system is not exploited points out the reality of the situation. We have to rely on one or the other, because there can be an element of regulatory arbitrage to avoid the enforcement of proceedings in one jurisdiction by simply removing oneself to the other and expecting the matter to be addressed in that context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWhen I signed the agreement on behalf of the New Zealand Government I commented that in my role as Minister of Commerce I could see some very broad benefits in the approach that was being adopted. As well as facilitating the effective resolution of legal disputes, the arrangements for regulatory enforcement are very important in that CER context, and will certainly support the then recently implemented arrangements for trans-Tasman securities offerings, the operation of the Trans-Tasman Mutual Recognition Arrangement, and future coordination initiatives. So the agreement not only deals with current situations in terms of proceedings on both sides of the Tasman but is a good platform for other initiatives taken under the umbrella of the CER and single economic market agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe last thing I will mention is that although I did not sit on the Justice and Electoral Committee that considered the bill, it is clear from the report back from the select committee that it undertook quite detailed analysis of the legislation, picked up some of the issues that the Attorney-General mentioned in his comments in the House, and considerably improved aspects of the bill in order to address concerns raised in submissions. One of the concerns, which had been previously raised by way of public comment on the legislation, was about the proposed recognition and enforcement of regulatory sanctions. They had been identified as potentially the most controversial part of the regime. The argument was that they partially displaced the longstanding rule that domestic courts do not enforce penal as opposed to compensatory laws of foreign States, because to do so is contrary to the principles of independent sovereignty. But given that that is rather a big issue I might leave it to the Committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022146c1bf42e9246dfb071a79f138472ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022146c1bf42e9246dfb071a79f138472ea\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E The Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill is a product of the highly efficient Justice and Electoral Committee\u2014a committee that does all its work in good faith and with esprit de corps, apart from the days when we do not get on and give each other a slap. But there have been no toys on the floor or anything else of late. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe bill, a key priority for the National-led Government, will enable New Zealand to work with Australia to create a single economic market to provide a seamless operating environment for business. Enhancing international legal cooperation is also a vital part of this Government\u2019s broader economic reform agenda, reducing the costs of doing business in the international market place. Our wonderful Prime Minister, John Key, emphasised the importance of the single economic market when he outlined the Government\u2019s programme for the year in February, saying that we were giving the single economic market new impetus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill reflects the commitment both the New Zealand and Australian Governments have made to enhance the operation of the single economic market. Australia is often the first stop for New Zealand businesses looking to expand into an overseas market, but getting to grips with different federal and state regulations can sometimes be a challenge for us all. The single economic market is about aligning the regulatory environment in New Zealand and Australia so that a New Zealand company can do business in Palmerston, Northern Territory, as easily as it can in Palmerston North, New Zealand. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022736b10c7a3f54342a6ce74a21a540ced\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022736b10c7a3f54342a6ce74a21a540ced\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise today to speak on the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill and also to have heard what members so far have had to say about this legislation, in particular the Attorney-General on behalf of the Minister of Justice, and my colleague Lianne Dalziel. I mean no disrespect to the chair of the Justice and Electoral Committee, but his was a brief contribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI think the praise that the legislation has had from both sides of the House is testament to the hard work started by Helen Clark and Lianne Dalziel in 2003 and the agreement worked on by Lianne Dalziel in 2008, which resulted in the bill that we are debating today. Good on the Government for progressing it! It is an important piece of legislation. It is a shame that it is being progressed under urgency; there is no particular requirement that it should be. None the less, we are where we are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIn 2003, as we heard from Lianne Dalziel, Helen Clark and Australia\u2019s then Prime Minister, John Howard\u2014my, how time flies\u2014signed off on the Trans-Tasman Working Group on Court Proceedings and Regulatory Enforcement. That group reported back in 2006. There were a range of recommendations in the report back, such as increasing the use of new video technologies and increasing the types of judgments that can be enforced in both Australia and New Zealand, including civil pecuniary penalties and criminal fines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EAs Lianne Dalziel told the House, an agreement reached with Australian legislators in 2008 under her guidance saw this bill drafted. I note with interest that some of the changes in it have been praised by David Goddard QC, one of our leading litigators, as the furthest-reaching proposals between any two sovereign States with separate legal systems. Those in the House who know the barrister whom I have just quoted will know that he has a particular interest in comparative law. If he said that that is the case as far as mutual commercial arrangements are concerned, then there is a very good chance that he is right. So it is interesting to look at the scope of the arrangements that are in contemplation by the House. Achieving a change this significant really is something quite noteworthy. I say that it is as a testament to the work that Lianne Dalziel did when she was a Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIt is also worthwhile to look at the work that the Law and Order Committee did. It concluded that the recommendations of Lianne Dalziel\u2019s agreement, as set out in the bill, will make trans-Tasman proceedings simpler and more affordable for businesses and individuals. They will support a successful trade relationship between New Zealand and Australia. They will expand the range of enforceable judgments. Very importantly, they will avoid any incentive for people to move, along with their assets, to one country or the other in order to try to evade the execution or the commencement of legal proceedings in the other jurisdiction. Well, that is the background to how the bill originated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI will give a brief description of some of the comments that we have had from the select committee, as well as look at some of the changes that have been recommended by it, along with Supplementary Order Paper 160, which the Minister plans to move during the Committee stage. The committee\u2019s changes are largely minor and technical in nature. For example, there is to be a new clause 22(1A) inserted to make sure that a person served in Australia in respect of New Zealand proceedings can apply for a stay of proceedings if the person wants to argue that the matter would be better dealt with, or more conveniently dealt with, in an Australian court. There is clarification of regulation-making powers to provide sufficient rule-making ability so that the courts can ensure that the bill can be implemented properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe committee has also recommended that there should be an ambiguity removed. When somebody in New Zealand appears by an audiovisual link in Australian proceedings, Australian law applies to the remote appearance. The committee has also recommended minor tweaks to ensure that the bill is consistent with the relevant Australian legislation relating to contempt of courts and tribunals and to ensure consistency between the purpose of the bill, as set out in its third clause, and that of the agreement between Australia and New Zealand. The Courts (Remote Participation) Act is a recent law. The committee has taken care to recommend that its provisions will not apply to remote appearances made under this bill and that the trans-Tasman evidence regime will operate in parallel with, and not override or be subject to, mutual assistance in criminal matters legislation. Overall, these amendments appear sensible. I think members on this side of the House intend to express their support for them. They are technical changes that largely leave intact the hard work done by the previous Minister of Justice and the previous Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe technical amendments that the Minister will move in Supplementary Order Paper 160 at the Committee stage are, again, ones that seem worthy of support because of their technical nature. Clause 26 is to be amended to align its wording with that of clause 24. Clauses 31(2) and (3) are to be omitted by the Supplementary Order Paper because they are unnecessary in a trans-Tasman context and may discourage New Zealand courts from giving interim relief and support of proceedings in Australian courts. Clearly that would not be desirable in the sort of regime that we are trying to set up here. Finally new clause 33A, clauses 39, 40, 54, and schedule 2 are amended to correct errors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill. As I said earlier I am pleased that the present Government is adopting and expediting the good work that was done by Lianne Dalziel as an Associate Minster of Justice. The bill recognises our increasing closeness with Australia, and it eases economic interaction as well as interaction between our justice systems. This is sensible, given the close relationship between our people and given the fact that the legal system that we currently have originated as part of the jurisdiction of New South Wales back in 1840 and has diverged since. In a sense we are correcting some of that divergence through this legislation, hopefully for the benefit of ordinary New Zealand citizens, taxpayers, and business people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIf someone sells their house in New Zealand and moves to Australia and there is a problem with the house or the settlement, later court proceedings will take place in New Zealand. But if a judgment is made and fines imposed, the person in Australia will not simply be able to ignore those with ease under this legislation. Under the new regime proposed in this bill, an Australian court will be able to enforce the judgment made in New Zealand. That is a sensible thing. It is actually a shame that we have not done this before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe bill is a good step along the way to creating a single economic market. There is much more that we need to do as a Parliament if we are serious about this relationship. Even if David Goddard is right and this is the most ambitious alignment of legal systems between two sovereign States, there is so much more we could do to make business easier between the two countries. I lived and worked in Sydney for a couple of years when I was a partner in my old law firm and I know there were real frustrations that business people and travellers between the Tasman experienced. One cannot get a single mobile phone account or a single bank account. Those are the sorts of things that we absolutely need to correct if we are serious about the single economic market. Members on this side of the House certainly are, and we have a very ambitious set of plans for advancing the agenda. I hope the fact that the Government is advancing this bill indicates that it is similarly ambitious, although I have to say the evidence in respect of that is so far lacking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThis bill does work to make our changing situations in Australia and New Zealand easier for everyone, so I do look forward to hearing further debate on the bill in the Committee stage. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u0022813a8c99dd604fd8a609ca7416e6d92a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022813a8c99dd604fd8a609ca7416e6d92a\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party will be supporting the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill as a way of improving the trans-Tasman cooperation on civil proceedings and on business proceedings. It builds on some of the existing trans-Tasman legislation. As Charles Chauvel has said, it makes some of the procedures simpler and more affordable. As Charles Chauvel said, it will enable people to choose the most appropriate jurisdiction in certain circumstances\u2014Australian or New Zealand\u2014and expand the range of practical and enforceable judgments. I will be interested to listen to Lianne Dalziel\u2019s comments on the use of penal sanctions across the two countries and who can apply what. It is not a straightforward issue. There are questions of basic sovereignty, as well. There is often a bit of conflict between the sovereignty issues and practical issues in order for us to conduct trans-Tasman business in the best possible way and avoid people escaping civil jurisdiction by running across the Tasman in either direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThere is a lot going for this bill, but, that being said, there is another side to it that Kennedy Graham referred to in his first reading speech. There can be upsides and downsides in the single economic market, as has been referred to by previous speakers. It can work two ways. As Charles Chauvel said, if there are similar jurisdictions on both sides of the Tasman, then people will not necessarily lift their assets from one country and take them to the other country, thus disrupting the economies of one or both countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EBut, on the other hand, what we have seen with the development of the single economic market is, in some ways, a greater domination of New Zealand by the Australian banks and the Australian-owned supermarkets. Many head offices disappear to Sydney or Melbourne, and more and more the Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch offices become branch offices of trans-Tasman companies. That has its upsides but there can be downsides. Sometimes the Australian-owned supermarkets that are part of a trans-Tasman operation will source from Australian producers and leave the New Zealand producers aside, not because the New Zealand producers are necessarily less efficient, but because of economies of scale they deal with just Australian producers for their supermarkets on both sides of the Tasman. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThere are problems like that, and we have had problems linking up other regulations in relation to food standards and therapeutic products, which are still a matter of ongoing dispute between Australia and New Zealand. Often we have somewhat different interests, so we have to be a bit careful, when we adopt common procedures, that we do not do so in a way that disadvantages New Zealand as the smaller player. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWhen we talk about a single economic market it can mean various levels of integration, and we have to be careful that we do not just slip into a common currency or a common Reserve Bank, which in some ways is a logical consequence of a single economic market. When we get down to that level we are getting into problems of economic sovereignty and problems of different dynamics operating in the economies between the two countries. The Australian economy is governed particularly by the cycles of prices for minerals\u2014the stuff they get out of the ground\u2014whereas the New Zealand economy is, to a significant extent, governed by the prices we get for our dairy products. Those cycles may not synchronise exactly, and we have seen the problems Europe has. I am not necessarily against the euro, but we can see that certain problems have developed with the application of the euro in Europe with different dynamics in relation to interest rates and the operation of the euro, which have meant that what is happening to the euro might suit Germany but may not necessarily suit Greece. That is a problem with a common currency before one goes to some greater political or economic unification. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EAs we make these changes to improve our relations across the Tasman and our trans-Tasman coordination of law we have to look at whether we are giving up too much sovereignty. Of course, in some trans-Tasman areas we have been successful. We now have sporting teams competing in virtually every Australian sport, from netball to rugby, to rugby league, to soccer; you name it, we are in an Australian competition. New Zealand teams such as the local team here in Wellington, the Phoenix, are doing quite well in those competitions. The Warriors might get in the top eight in the NRL and perhaps go further. There is a lot of trans-Tasman activity that is very useful. I can see from looking at other MPs that they are very intrigued by this ending to my speech, but I indicate that the Green Party will be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca8d3648409e4143a6d618a63a2b5452\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca8d3648409e4143a6d618a63a2b5452\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E The Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill is part of a much broader picture. We have very, very close relations with our Australian cousins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d09857710dfe497e942d873ef28e10a5\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Except on wages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ec4da2c2cdc43c785746d1b4932523e\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: This morning on television, and it might also have been in the newspaper, there was some navel gazing about whether Tony Abbott or Julia Gillard would be better for our country and our economic relationships. Well, that just shows insecurity, because the reality is that we have a very close relationship at all levels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ETo answer David Parker\u2019s interjection, we stand to benefit the better Australia does, and vice versa, because we are so close. In recent times we have economically become ever-closer in terms of the movement of peoples and the interaction of peoples, and in terms of assets and services. Charles Chauvel talked about the ever-increasing number of property deals, purchases, and so on that go on across the Tasman, not to mention matrimonial issues and the like. That is really where this bill comes into play. It is about making sure that the court processes in each country, as we work together, keep up with those ever-increasing relationships and interactions. Australia, of course, will be passing a near-identical bill to this one, so that our two court systems, as far as this bill goes, will be in sync. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI will quickly read from the bill\u2019s explanatory note: \u201CThe objectives of the Agreement are to streamline and simplify the process for resolving civil proceedings with a trans-Tasman element to reduce costs and improve efficiency; and minimise existing impediments to enforcing certain judgments and regulatory sanctions.\u201D For example, the issuing of proceedings, the enforceability of judgments and the like will be streamlined\u2014made better\u2014between the two countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThis bill is an important step towards closer integration between the justice systems of Australia and New Zealand, and it is another marker of a very close, very secure relationship between our nations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022319e6672a4164bdca42a8a799e67089f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022319e6672a4164bdca42a8a799e67089f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As Lianne Dalziel and Charles Chauvel have both said, Labour will be supporting the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill at this reading, as we did in the earlier reading. Just following on from the previous speaker, Simon Bridges, in respect of how close things have become between New Zealand and Australia, I say there is, of course, a notable exception to that, which relates to the ever-increasing wage gap between New Zealand and Australia. Important though this bill is in making court proceedings easier in each country, it is not as important as closing that wage gap. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EOf course, at the last election National promised that it would close the wage gap with Australia. But the problem is that it said it would do that by 2025, and we cannot get any particularity from the Government as to an intermediate milestone. We might say that that does not matter very much, because as long as we are going in the right direction, we will get there eventually. But the reality is that we are not going in the right direction, and the wage gap is growing ever wider. Unfortunately, the National Government does not understand that, because it had Gerry Brownlee in the House trying to palaver that the gap was growing narrower, and John Key was doing the same thing, only to be called \u201Cslippery\u201D by TV3. It is a terrible thing when our Prime Minister so misrepresents statistics that he is called \u201Cslippery\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis bill will not make a difference to the gap between wages in Australia and New Zealand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022909efafe8a8b4f95a13eefe7b1acf134\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Will they let Gerry Brownlee speak on this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022670f4915aaa9402ba56a2d1b2f73c5b8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they might let Gerry Brownlee speak on this bill, but they have not let him answer questions on the more important issue about what is happening to that wage gap. The National members have not given us any milestone that New Zealanders can judge their performance against between now and 2025, and we all know that 2025 is a decade and a half away. Most of the National people who are currently here will be superannuitants by that time, unless of course they change the qualifying age for superannuation by that time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill, which simplifies\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2ceeb5553af4e49b0be3e8f78587bd8\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this member wearing his raincoat in the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f48980273a945ea8719bdd7c807c4ba\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, sartorial elegance is obviously something that would be new to Tauranga, but we celebrate it on this side of the Chamber occasionally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis bill essentially makes it easier to carry out civil proceedings in Australia or New Zealand. A number of changes are made. For example, we are making it easier to serve documents in Australia in respect of a proceeding that has been initiated in New Zealand, and the quid pro quo for that is that if a civil proceeding is appropriately commenced in Australia, we are making it easier to serve those documents in New Zealand on New Zealand - based parties to that litigation. Equivalent provisions are in the comparable legislation that is being passed in Australia. In addition to that, provisions in the legislation on both sides of the Tasman say that if a proceeding is inappropriately started in one country, then a stay of proceedings can be applied for in that country while the people involved go to the other country and initiate proceedings there. That guards against people picking what might be the most convenient jurisdiction for them in which to start their proceedings. It might be convenient for them, but it might be inappropriate in the context of the case. So a party can then go to the court, seek a stay of proceedings\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221729824d241348688c1e792f542d1bde\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s written on the back of the jacket?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252761a3a0f57472f8c0b3de0c3da6de4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Cutler, a good brand. Let us return to the more important issue, which is when we are to get some milestones from the Government on which it can be held accountable for real progress in closing the gap with Australian wages. That was the foundation principle on which National fought the last election. The National members told New Zealanders that they should be jealous of the position of Australians, and that they would fix that problem. They said they would fix it by closing the wage gap, but it is now going in the opposite direction. We have asked National time and again for milestones, but it has declined to provide them. The latest two iterations of economic policy that we have seen from National were dated 1 August this year and the one that predated it, a February iteration of the same document. There was no reference to this bill in either of them, because of course it is peripheral only to economic performance. But in the February document the Government said it would cause a step change in the economy. It was going to open up further areas, like schedule 4 areas, for mining, and it was going to have a financial services hub. None of those plans\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc6e7167f37342e7b5993053052850ff\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We are in a second reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fc0fcc8356441c5b75e84fe3acc14e3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014appear in the latest iteration, and this bill will have absolutely\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285299932403644bbbfa5564985ed8935\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am not entirely comfortable with raising this point, but it is the second time I have done so regarding the Opposition. David Parker appears to be dressed in some kind of safari jacket. I notice that the Standing Orders require members to wear business attire. I personally would welcome a ruling that did not require us to wear these silly things around our necks. But I invite you, Mr Deputy Speaker, to make a ruling on what is appropriate. I certainly do not see that what Mr Parker is wearing right now is business attire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223971e1bb4aff4f97bec603b9798f2ca7\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] A point of order is being considered. I thank the member for that. In terms of wearing ties, our Standing Orders require business attire to be worn, and that is what we have to comply with. That is the standard set in this House. In terms of the jacket that the Hon David Parker is wearing, in my view that fills the bill as business attire. I am quite comfortable with his wearing that jacket. That is acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239eda74510f54aa88452d789a0189d6a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker\u2014a man of discerning taste, unlike the member for Tauranga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe bill makes a very small contribution to the efficiency of the New Zealand and Australian economies. It will help the New Zealand economy to catch up with Australia\u2019s by a very, very small amount, but no meaningful step has been taken by this Government in terms of bridging that gap. Indeed, the New Zealand Herald has stated, in respect of the Government\u2019s economic policy, that it has not done much more than some \u201Ctinkering with the Resource Management Act and suchlike.\u201D Those were the words, I think\u2014\u201Ctinkering with the Resource Management Act and suchlike.\u201D It also said that if small steps are taken, then only small progress is made and things can go backwards. That is what is happening under this Government. The economic performance of this country relative to that of Australia is worsening. The wage gap is getting bigger. This bill will not be the answer, because it does not have much of an effect on the economic performance of New Zealand. Although the bill is a good one, it goes to issues of legal process rather than to the economic performance of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI hope that subsequent speakers from National will get up and tell the country what milestones those members are willing to set that would allow them to be judged on whether they are achieving the step change in the economy that they promised everyone even as recently as February this year that they would achieve\u2014but the phrase \u201Cstep change\u201D has dropped out of their current rhetoric\u2014and tell us what they are doing to bridge the wage gap with Australia. I am afraid that I am not willing to wait until 2025 to judge whether they are succeeding in delivering on that promise, and I do not think that most New Zealanders are, either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe other changes made in the select committee in respect of this legislation were largely technical. We approached the Australian legislature to see whether we could have the wording of some of its legislation changed, as well. As a consequence, there is a better alignment of both bills on each side of the Tasman. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u0022a65c1029a7704a6485215ad80cae5ee3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a65c1029a7704a6485215ad80cae5ee3\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call on the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill, which focuses on New Zealand\u2019s very special relationship with Australia. With Australia being our biggest trade partner, it is very important for us to build cordial relations with that country. The bill will confirm the strong relationship between our two countries. This bill will ensure that disputes can be resolved through a cheaper, faster, and more efficient process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe National-led Government, under the able leadership of the Rt Hon John Key, is working hard with Australia to create a single economic market that will provide a seamless operating environment for businesses and individuals. New Zealand and Australia have mutual interests in the efficient working of each other\u2019s regulatory regimes, particularly those that move towards our having a single economy. This bill will make it easier to resolve civil disputes between parties with connections on both sides of the Tasman. It will benefit both individuals and businesses. Just as with earlier bills, it will allow court appearances by audiovisual link, and it will also allow for better enforcement of the regulatory regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EI join with others in commending this bill to the House on its second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u00227595f4ca53a54b3a9157b3b963c81cf7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227595f4ca53a54b3a9157b3b963c81cf7\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will follow the Leader of the House\u2019s spirit and say: \u201CLet\u2019s dig it up.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7536cab799948b89cbece3044ec6752\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213028b84c63c4af88537dd56ee64f7fb\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO\u003C/span\u003E: Let us dig it up. The Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill, together with the equivalent Australian legislation, will integrate the New Zealand and Australian civil justice systems and simplify the resolution of legal disputes with a trans-Tasman aspect. The bill simplifies the trans-Tasman service of court proceedings and the enforcement of judgments. It expands the range of enforceable judgments and improves regulatory enforcement of civil pecuniary penalties and certain criminal regulatory fines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe Hon Lianne Dalziel, when signing the treaty in July 2008 on which this bill is based, called it \u201Can unprecedented level of cooperation between Australia and New Zealand in civil court proceedings.\u201D Indeed, without those initiatives, the civil pecuniary penalties that are imposed on one country are not enforceable on the other. Nor are criminal fines imposed in one country enforceable in the other, due to obvious sovereignty concerns. Interim relief such as freezing assets can be obtained in one country in support of proceedings in the other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThis bill results from a work programme started by the Rt Hon Helen Clark in 2003. The Trans-Tasman Working Group on Court Proceedings and Regulatory Enforcement was established to examine the relevant issues. It recommended that a simpler, more efficient trans-Tasman regime would significantly benefit both countries. As a result, both the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill and the Australian Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill were introduced in November 2009. The measures introduced were to enhance the efficiency and efficacy of commercial litigation in respect of parties, services of proceedings, witnesses, assets, and events concerning both jurisdictions. The regime is modelled on Australian law, namely the Commonwealth Service and Execution of Process Act 1992, which regulates legal proceedings between Australian states and territories. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThere has been a significant increase in the movement of people, assets, and services between New Zealand and Australia. Consequently, there is naturally an increasing number of disputes involving individuals or businesses with cross-border elements. In the year to June 2010 nearly 1.2 million Australians visited New Zealand, and the number of New Zealanders who visited Australia was well in excess of that. Australia has remained our largest trading partner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe main features of the bill are reflected in five aspects. Firstly, the bill allows initiating documents to be served in Australia in the same form as is required in New Zealand. Therefore, service of civil proceedings between trans-Tasman parties is more efficient under the bill. However, a party served in Australia will be able to make an application to stay the New Zealand proceedings if the party considers it more appropriate for an Australian court to hear the dispute. It is proposed that New Zealand and Australian courts apply a common test when considering whether they have jurisdiction to hear a dispute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ESecondly, the bill encourages greater use of video and audio facilities, allowing parties and counsel to appear remotely in proceedings with the leave of the court. Thirdly, the bill enables parties to seek interim relief from a New Zealand court in support of an Australian proceeding with the leave of the court. Fourthly, trans-Tasman subpoenas will be able to be issued by judges of lower courts, and similar subpoenas may be issued for some tribunals by the District Court. Subpoenas in criminal proceedings will also be able to be served with the leave of the court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ELastly\u2014and this is perhaps the most important feature of the bill\u2014a broader range of Australian judgments are able to be enforced in New Zealand if registered in a New Zealand court. Currently, final money judgments are enforceable. This bill will extend the coverage to include final non-money judgments. The provision will only be applicable where the Australian judgment is final and conclusive. Some types of Australian judgment will not be enforceable\u2014for example, if the judgment involves a civil pecuniary penalty, if it is an order under the proceeds of crime legislation, or if it relates to a guardianship or property protection order. In a similar vein, the regime will also make it easier for Australian parties to commence proceedings against New Zealand parties in Australia, and allow Australian parties to enforce a large range of Australian judgments against New Zealand parties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EAn interesting point is worth noting. Chapman Tripp lawyers questioned, in their witty opinion, the wisdom of the difference between the two approaches. Under the bill, sanctions framed as civil pecuniary penalties will be directly enforceable unless specifically excluded by Order in Council\u2014namely, a negative list approach. Sanctions framed as regulatory regime criminal fines will be directly enforceable only if declared to be so by Order in Council\u2014namely, a positive-list approach. \u201CThe net effect\u201D\u2014according to Mr Daniel Kalderimis\u2014\u201Cis that regulatory regimes based around civil penalties will achieve instant cross-border reach unless expressly excluded, whereas regulatory regimes based around criminal penalties will retain a domestic ambit unless expressly included.\u201D Mr Kalderimis concludes by stating: \u201CIt is not obvious that this difference in treatment is warranted \u2026 civil penalties are penalties nonetheless, and in many commercial cases the distinction between civil and criminal penalties may be little more than nomenclature.\u201D He cites, as an example, the fact that a fine under section 40 of the Fair Trading Act 1986 is a criminal penalty, but a fine under section 80 of the Commerce Act 1986 is a civil penalty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ETo conclude, this bill seeks to streamline the process for resolving civil proceedings with a trans-Tasman element in order to reduce costs, improve efficiency, and minimise existing impediments to enforcing certain judgments and regulatory sanctions. I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e30734a07c1e4ba885568be83d1cd830\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228b58ca3d8c074d45b3e3d736cacd5df6\u0022\u003EPart 1  Preliminary and general provisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u0022c423d99733e14d63a48e7fafcb101635\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c423d99733e14d63a48e7fafcb101635\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call in the Committee stage on the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill. New Zealand has a very special relationship with Australia, and this bill will help us to streamline the regulatory regime. The bill will ensure that disputes can be resolved through a cheaper, faster, and more efficient process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201008247b09f4d0588740dc9169df8221823f50000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228f7781dbf79e45fa845ebc5b8c3508d2\u0022\u003ETuesday, 24 August 2010\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002246b313a8b35144578332768f0eaf3940\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 25 August 2010)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229bcb4fb5bcaf4da8891c04fdb0b69dcd\u0022\u003ETrans-Tasman Proceedings Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f3d7e23892184a48aa967d7a8dc8db54\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u00227a26a67190bc4271b4f30ea0b40c9cb1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a26a67190bc4271b4f30ea0b40c9cb1\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the parts and clauses to be taken as one question this morning, under the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd8f53e67a85426699eeb5be1ff3a23c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: So you are seeking leave for there to be one debate and one question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e56911b095d9411495c8f5a3aed55859\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273f0074014154e73abaa83ccdaab480e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for there to be one question. Is anyone opposed to that course of action? There is not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e096c1acc4be43e9a0096f5051327e35\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2, schedules 1 and 2, and clauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00223bd8c7445eec404dbd44408e1e43c7ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bd8c7445eec404dbd44408e1e43c7ac\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E Another member was on his feet last night, and I was hoping that he would continue with the call, because it was such an interesting contribution to the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022510226b95ba6498aabb7cf6ed9a10097\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Who was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbd643305bfd4ea58a1cad54452760a9\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot remember his surname, so I cannot say\u2014ha, ha! Perhaps one of my colleagues could help me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b8b1dee9fc34351826b80d76bcefe03\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: It wasn\u2019t Maurice Williamson, was it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca7ed232a10a4bc99a347351065227ad\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: No, it was not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ESeriously, I do have a serious question to ask. One of my colleagues, Raymond Huo, made a contribution to the second reading debate last night. The point he was making was in relation to some concerns that had been raised by Chapman Tripp in the public arena prior to the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill going to the Justice and Electoral Committee. I alluded to this point myself in the first reading debate, but I did so at the end of my contribution. I said that I would deal with it once we got to the Committee stage, because, as my colleague Raymond Huo pointed out\u2014very well, I thought\u2014it is actually quite a tricky area. Let me just run back over the end point of my contribution on the first reading debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI have here the Chapman Tripp publication Trans-Tasman integration: court proceedings and enforcement. It states: \u201CThe proposed recognition and enforcement of regulatory sanctions is perhaps the most controversial part of the regime. The proposed reforms partially displace the longstanding rule that domestic courts do not enforce penal (as opposed to compensatory) laws of foreign states, because to do so is contrary to the principles of independent sovereignty.\u201D The point that my colleague Raymond Huo made last night was that under the proposed reforms some of the Australian regulatory penalties imposed by courts can now be seen to be directly enforceable in New Zealand courts, and vice versa, in the same way civil judgments are. The point he was making\u2014and this is the point elucidated in this commentary\u2014is that regulatory regimes based around civil penalties and regulatory regimes based around criminal penalties are going to be treated differently under the new regime. For civil penalties there will basically be cross-border reach, unless it is expressly excluded, and that is dealt with in Subpart 7 of the bill, which is the part of the bill that I would like the Minister to focus his attention on\u2014clauses 68 and 69. These provisions refer back to Subpart 5, as well. For criminal penalties it will be where they are included in the regulatory reach. On the one hand, if sanctions are framed as civil pecuniary penalties, they will be directly enforceable unless specifically excluded by Order in Council\u2014\u201Ca negative list\u201D approach. Sanctions framed as \u201Cregulatory regime criminal fines\u201D will be directly enforceable only if declared to be so by Order in Council\u2014a \u201Cpositive list\u201D approach. It would be worthwhile to have on the record of the House why the distinction applies in this legislation. It would be an extremely useful contribution to an understanding around how this will work in practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe reason I am asking for this is that Chapman Tripp basically said that it was not obvious that the difference in treatment was warranted, because for some of the civil penalties versus criminal penalties arguments, one will literally be dancing on the head of a pin. It used the example of a fine under section 40 of the Fair Trading Act, which is a criminal penalty, and a fine under section 80 of the Commerce Act, which is a civil penalty. I think it is quite an interesting point, and it would be really worthwhile if the Minster would contribute to our understanding of why there is the difference between the two regimes as they are being implemented in the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EIt is quite an interesting argument, and Chapman Tripp takes it a little bit further. The question is this: \u201CAs a matter of broader principle, one might ask when and to what extent direct and mutual enforcement of the regulatory penalties is desirable.\u201D So this is really the second issue\u2014the first issue is the distinction between the civil and the criminal penalties. The point that Chapman Tripp went on to make is that \u201CWhere those court judgements relate to regulatory proceedings, the domestic regulatory systems of both New Zealand and Australia will have a broader reach. But this does not ensure (or even seek to ensure) that the respective regulatory systems will promote the same policies or pull in the same direction.\u201D So the point raised in this article is that there is \u201Ca risk of cross-cutting, rather than more streamlined, regulation in areas such as competition law, securities regulation and consumer protection.\u201D As I also said in the first reading debate on this bill, it was in my role as the Minister of Commerce that I welcomed the introduction of the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill on the basis that a lot of the work that would be seen to be able to be concluded under it would fall within the ambit of my concern in that area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EBut the point that Chapman Tripp makes in this article is that anecdotal evidence suggests \u201Cthat New Zealand and Australian regulators are still a lot way from sharing a common mindset or working in a truly coordinated fashion. The New Zealand Commerce Commission is unlikely to accept arguments that a New Zealand penalty should be reduced to take account of penalties imposed in Australia in respect of the same or related conduct. Likewise for the Australian Securities and Investments Commission. Perhaps in time a regime of mutual enforceability will foster a joint approach by regulators in such situations. For now, one can expect a somewhat imperfect overlap as the effects of closer coordination, but not single-source regulation, are felt.\u201D I do not necessarily agree with Chapman Tripp on this point. I think that sometimes we leap to an end conclusion without seeing whether there are intermediate steps that we can take along the way, and in many respects I prefer the graduated approach that this legislation seems to favour, which is to have the mutual enforceability through the approach of the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill rather than to have single set of regulation applying across the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, the Commerce Commission, and indeed the Securities Commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWe have moved a long way, and, as I also said in my first reading speech, the mutual recognition of securities offerings and the sorts of advancements that were made under the previous Labour Government will benefit, I think, from the platform that this establishes. But I think it is worthwhile for the Government to place on record a response to this particular issue, because it is one that commentators will continue to reflect on as the legislation comes into force. The legislation as a whole is legislation that we absolutely welcome. As I said in the first reading, I was the Minister who was fortunate enough to be able to sign the original agreement on behalf of the New Zealand Government, and that is something that, obviously, someone in my situation would regard as an absolute privilege to do. So we are very pleased that the Government has taken up legislative requirements to match the legislative requirements put in place in Australia. But those two issues, I think, are worthy of having a good statement on the record of this House. Those who are going to study the in-depth detail of this legislation and are going to implement it from time to time will want to see why the Government has chosen to split the approach on civil and criminal penalties. They will want to see how the new system is supposed to operate, when in fact the regulators may be working under different rules. In many respects, the blurring of the line between the two will certainly mean that people will see that one country\u2019s own domestic circumstances will be imposing on those of the other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3aa698334b94b6e9e1260fca8fdb88a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3aa698334b94b6e9e1260fca8fdb88a\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As we have heard, the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill seeks to integrate our own justice system further with that of Australia. As far as I can see, it is the most far-reaching attempt to achieve that integration since the days of Geoffrey Palmer, as he then was, and the mutual recognition that was extended between the Federal Court of Australia and our High Court as to certain orders and judgments. So it is good to see a scheme that further extends that pioneering work, which is over 20 years old. One might say that we have tarried a bit to get to the situation that we are in now, but that we have come even as far as this is thanks in large part to the excellent work of Lianne Dalziel in the previous regime. It is great to see that that work is being continued. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI shall look at the regulatory impact statement in the legislation, and then ask the Minister in the chair a couple of questions. I can see that he is intensely engaged in this debate! It would be very interesting to hear what the Minister has to say on the questions I have for him; perhaps the answers lie on his iPad, which he is studying so assiduously. The regulatory impact statement weighs up four options. One is keeping the status quo\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022611ad7fbd71444f5839bb5c7214c2e44\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Looking at the bill. Get with the programme, Charles\u2014the bill is on the iPad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282ee6714af9d42af8158d24170933457\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: Now we have the usual excellent quality contribution from Mr Quinn in the Committee stage! He is a learned figure in the Parliament on these matters, so I hope he will keep chipping in! As he will know, the regulatory impact statement suggests that there were four options to proceed with: we could keep the status quo, which we clearly have not decided to do; we could amend existing legislation; we could implement changes modelled on another supranational project of note in the world at the moment, the European Union, with its integration of justice systems; or we could implement the changes outlined in this bill. The regulatory impact statement concluded, given the needs that it outlined, that the changes suggested in the bill are the best response to our needs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EAs well as identifying the problems within our current regime, the statement gives a wider context as to why the bill\u2019s reforms are needed. It notes the increase that has occurred in the movement of people between Australia and New Zealand, the movement of assets and services between the two countries, and the subsequent increase in cross-border disputes involving individuals or businesses based in both countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EWe have always assumed in this Parliament, I think, that this is an inevitable process\u2014that there is an ever-greater prospect of integration between Australia and New Zealand\u2014but history, of course, shows that that is not the case. We need only look at the politics that were played with the trans-Tasman therapeutic regime in the last Parliament, and now we have the prospect of a conservative Government, if it comes to power in Australia, having promised to look again at the ability of people to move freely between Australia and New Zealand for residential and working purposes. That would be a retrograde step; it would be a terrible thing if that agreement were altered, if the special purpose visa that New Zealanders have for going to Australia as of right, and Australians have for coming here, were to be abolished. I certainly hope that Mr Abbott does not have the opportunity to get his hands on that agreement, which I think has been a great thing for the two countries. I think it is unusual that Mr Key rang Mr Abbott on the weekend and left him a message, but did not ring the Prime Minister of Australia to congratulate her on her campaign. But let us hope that this does not presage a change in the trend that we have seen so far, of greater integration between the countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c35b1d741d9d46f9b3cf16b884af2acb\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: You give her a ring, Charles. Say you\u2019re speaking on behalf of the nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c574a97c7c274ecb928f52ec3cbe016f\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think it would be better to hear me speaking on behalf of the country than Mr Quinn, because at least people would be able to understand what I was saying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIn terms of what our needs are in the regulatory impact statement, there are a number of problems that people currently run into. I ask Minister Williamson whether he is confident that those problems will be fully addressed by the legislation. The first problem is where a defendant does not submit to the jurisdiction of an Australian court. At the moment the resulting judgment may not be fully enforceable in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThere is another issue\u2014final money judgments are the only things at the moment that are enforceable across the Tasman. There is no ability to get interim relief, particularly in a commercial sense. One cannot apply for the freezing of assets to preserve the position of the parties in litigation when proceedings are based in the other country, decisions of the tribunals of one country cannot be enforced in the other with any great ease, and the rules to determine which country\u2019s courts should decide a dispute are based in private international law. The same rules apply there as apply to, say, a dispute involving New Zealand on the one hand and Bolivia, Zimbabwe, or some other country, on the other hand, that we do not have any particular affinity with as far as legal systems are concerned. Clearly, that is not a desirable state of affairs. Also, civil pecuniary fines, as Lianne Dalziel said, imposed in one country are not enforceable in the other. The same situation applies to criminal fines, so the inability to have that mutual level of enforcement lets certain regulatory offences continue to undermine trans-Tasman markets, ultimately to the detriment of both Australia and New Zealand. Obviously it is desirable to have the same set of general rules applicable in both places. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EObviously there will be some administrative costs involved in implementing those reforms; the statement recognises that. But it concludes that those will be outweighed by the many reduced regulatory costs to businesses and to people doing their activities on a trans-Tasman basis, and, because of better enforcement there will also be, in the end, lower costs. There will be other substantial benefits, as other members have outlined. They include more efficient court proceedings and more effective remedies. The bill will also play a crucial part in the success of the furthering of closer economic relations and single economic market initiatives like streamlined trans-Tasman insolvency procedures, which is obviously a good thing, and the mutual recognition of financial intermediaries. So we should all hope that this integration process continue rather than grinding to a halt or hitting some speed bumps because of the internal politics in Australia I have referred to. I think one speaker on the opposite side last night noted that New Zealand has been the overwhelming beneficiary of these integration moves, so, certainly, it is in our interests to enact this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EBut I would like the Minister to consider in particular clause 51(1) of the legislation, under which the Governor-General by Order in Council can declare certain tribunals of a state or a territory of Australia to be a tribunal to which the subpart applies. That is a way in which the executive can extend the application, or the intended application, of the legislation. I would be interested to know what types of tribunal the Government has in contemplation, if it has any at all, as far as that power is concerned. It seems to me that if the full purpose and effect of the legislation is to be realised, then the sorts of tribunals that are contemplated by that clause will be quite wide; we will see a large number of Australian administrative tribunals gazetted by the Governor-General under that clause, and we will see the ability to have a wide range of orders mutually enforced, because hopefully we will see under the reciprocal provisions in Australia a similarly broad approach to New Zealand tribunals. That would be a good thing. As I said, it would be useful to hear from the Minister in the chair whether there has been some thought on that issue or whether we will be looking at just another hiatus of 20 years before we take the next logical step toward integrating our legal systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u00224b1024eef8f149d38c02a4a3c915bc6f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b1024eef8f149d38c02a4a3c915bc6f\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to stand and speak in support of the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill, which we are debating under urgency. I note that most of the bills before the House are non-controversial. That is what we know and love about Maurice Williamson, the Minister in the chair; \u201CMr Non-controversial\u201D is what we often call him. When we consider some of the legislation that has gone through the House in very recent times, it is a pleasure to speak to a bill that adds value. I understand that my colleague Brendon Burns will take a call on the bill after me, and that is really good, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThe bill and the equivalent Australian legislation will integrate our countries\u2019 civil justice systems to simplify the resolution of legal disputes with a trans-Tasman aspect. The bill resulted, if we are being really honest, from work started by Helen Clark in 2003. I would like to speak briefly about the background. The Trans-Tasman Working Group on Court Proceedings and Regulatory Enforcement was established by Helen Clark and John Howard in 2003. It reported back in December 2006, and made a range of recommendations that included the use of video technology to allow witnesses to appear while overseas, and an increase in the types of judgments that could be enforced in each country. The agreement produced was signed in 2008 by Labour\u2019s previous speaker, Lianne Dalziel, as Minister of Commerce, and Robert McClelland, the Australian Attorney-General. The agreement went to the Law and Order Committee, and the unanimous recommendation from that committee was that the agreement was the best way forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EIn terms of the bill itself, we know that it reduces the cost and complexity of litigation and provides better remedies. The bill will certainly enhance the very good relationship that we have with Australia, even though it is absolutely romping ahead of us economically, in the job stakes, and in supporting people through a recession. In fact, that country has barely felt the recession, as opposed to this country. I am hoping that through this bill and the work that will happen across the Tasman this Government will be able to draw on some policies that will enhance New Zealand\u2019s economy, which is in a dreadful state.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281b39ee3f6754882a7f52a7afd35289c\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ve got none of their own.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223948cc6c3763463eb5644b47e82d2fcc\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has none of its own, as my colleague said. Perhaps its members will learn from our neighbours a way to support people in work, rather than\u2014[Interruption]\u2014exactly, having a plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI commend the Law and Order Committee, which looked at a number of amendments to the bill. They included refining applications for stays of proceedings, and giving New Zealand courts the power to declare jurisdiction. It also looked at the procedural rules of the courts, and wanted \u201Cto allow rules prescribing things required or necessary for implementing the bill to be made using any powers given by any Act to make procedural rules for a court or tribunal.\u201D Very sensible work was done by the Law and Order Committee, which was quite an achievement, given that the chair is not always up there in terms of achievement\u2014would that be a fair comment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6465720103e45b2b8e3d99408e2dedc\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: What? Say that again!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022206ab9a756ea46dd9856644d15abb219\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I am not talking about the Justice and Electoral Committee; I am certainly not talking about that select committee. I know that Brendon Burns will take a call, so I will note just a couple more issues. One was the serving of initiating documents in Australia. In terms of the defendant\u2019s address for service, some really sensible work was done to ensure that it was the most efficient possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022712bd883b79c4106916e7419d1bc5e13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022712bd883b79c4106916e7419d1bc5e13\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to take a call on the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill, and to note that this is a continuation and an enhancement of the process of the closer economic relationship with Australia, which I have to acknowledge began under a National Government in the late 1970s and early 1980s under the Hon Hugh Templeton. It got support from the Labour leader Bill Rowling at that time, and took off, and it was a very appropriate and timely move for this country. It acknowledges the strength and depth of our relationship with Australia, and this bill continues to acknowledge that, which is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI think it is also important that we have some complementarities, where possible, in the judicial systems of Australia and New Zealand, and this bill endeavours to implement some of those. It is important to have those complementarities, because the capacity of New Zealanders to travel to Australia, and of Australians to come to New Zealand, is ever-increasing. Obviously, our court systems have to acknowledge the fact that people are not always domiciled in one country; they can live in one country and cross to the other, and court proceedings can take place in one country or the other. This bill effectively allows some sort of acknowledgment that there are issues that need to be resolved in courts across the two countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EBut there are still some gaps that I will allude to, and I have a constituent who is facing one at the moment. My constituent has had to return to Australia to face proceedings in Australia\u2019s equivalent of our Family Court in relation to a custody case. It is a very distressing and harrowing case, because this poor young woman has been forced to go back to Australia by the father of her child, under circumstances that suggested that the father wanted to have ongoing contact with the child. She has now been back in Australia for some 9 months but the father has not made any contact. In fact, I understand that he is on the run from the police in two states of Australia. I acknowledge the intervention last week of the Minister of Justice, Simon Power, who has asked his officials to investigate, and who has also asked the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade to provide whatever assistance it can to this poor young constituent of mine. She is faced with the ongoing demands and delays of a court system of which she has no knowledge, no power and, in her view, no real authority to try to expedite proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThis bill does not extend to those issues; it is more related to the business community and those sorts of relationships, but that case is a signal of the need for real complementarities between the justice systems of our two countries. We are a very movable nation and our affairs are often interwoven with Australian affairs. Our business and family relationships are increasingly taking us back and forward across the Tasman, and this bill is an attempt to expedite those issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe bill, of course, began under Helen Clark\u2019s leadership. It has come through Parliament\u2014it has been through the select committee process\u2014and it will reduce some of the complexities and costs that are in place in trans-Tasman litigation, and provide better remedies. It is therefore a very sensible measure. Through facilitating the effective resolution of trans-Tasman disputes, this bill will foster those ever-increasing economic relationships with Australia and New Zealand. That is important. It will simplify proceedings within our courts and the enforcement of judgments. That is very sensible. We have had a significant increase in the movement of people, assets, and services across the Tasman; obviously, they will be subject to disputes from time to time. Therefore it is important that we have this arrangement, which is perhaps internationally one of the best arrangements between any two sovereign States with separate legal systems. We still retain our entire independence in respect of our judicial system, but obviously we want to try to ensure that there are as few impediments as possible to the process of justice, whether people are on this side of the Tasman or the other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe Trans-Tasman Working Group on Court Proceedings and Regulatory Enforcement has worked through these issues. The group was set up by Helen Clark and John Howard back in 2003. It has brought forward the proposals that are now enmeshed in this bill. It is appropriate that we now see this bill passed, and move towards that closer integration of the New Zealand and Australian civil justice systems so that we can continue to develop and foster the closer economic relationship that began even before the time of the Hon Maurice Williamson in this House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 160 in the name of the Hon Simon Power be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2, schedules 1 and 2, and clauses 1 and 2, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c0d6b3946eae411f8be8ddc9b7d3ead9\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u00223ca1abbd058d44e5b4229275346da22a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ca1abbd058d44e5b4229275346da22a\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (Minister for Building and Construction)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: I move, That the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill be now read a third time. This bill is an important milestone in the creation of a comprehensive new regime to deal with court proceedings and regulatory enforcement across the Tasman. It implements in New Zealand the Agreement between the Government of New Zealand and the Government of Australia on Trans-Tasman Court Proceedings and Regulatory Enforcement, which was signed in 2008. Together with its Australian equivalent, also called the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Act, this bill will streamline the resolution of disputes with connections to both New Zealand and Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EAs personal and business connections between countries increase, the activities of individuals and businesses are increasingly likely to be affected by more than one legal system. Uncertainty about which court will hear a dispute or whether a person will be able to enforce a judgment in another country causes difficulties for both individuals and business. Addressing those issues between New Zealand and Australia is obviously a key plank in progress towards a single economic market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThis level of cooperation between two countries on cross-border civil justice issues may be unparalleled anywhere in the world. If it proves successful, it may even be looked at as a model of what can be achieved between jurisdictions. The high level of confidence each country has in the other\u2019s legal system\u2014and regulatory system, by the way\u2014and our common legal heritage has allowed us to push the boundaries. Most countries do not, for example, enforce another country\u2019s penal laws. The two pieces of legislation will make an exception to that general rule and allow certain criminal fines imposed under one regulatory regime to be enforced in another, in the same way as a civil judgment debt. Criminal fines play an important role in encouraging compliance with regulatory regimes. Improved enforcement of regulatory regimes that affect the integrity, effectiveness, and efficiency of trans-Tasman markets will deliver benefits to both countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EThe sort of regulatory regimes this legislation will apply to include New Zealand\u2019s Commerce Act and the Australian Trade Practices Act. The benefits of this new regime will span the range of interactions New Zealand has with Australia and its legal system. Those who will benefit extend from individuals involved in family proceedings and consumer disputes to major New Zealand corporations operating in Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EProcesses for effective and efficient resolution of disputes are essential to support the closer economic relations agreement, and the initiatives that sit under it. We want New Zealand businesses to be able to operate in Australia and deal with Australian businesses with confidence. Businesses need to know that if a dispute arises it can be heard by the court most appropriate to hear it, or by the court they agreed would hear it. Businesses need to know that they can readily obtain interim relief, such as a freezing order, if they need it, and they need to know that if they obtain a final judgment, it can be enforced effectively even if other parties\u2019 assets are located in Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003EAfter the passage of this bill, the New Zealand and Australian Governments will continue to work closely together to make the necessary supporting regulations, and to bring the arrangements into force at the earliest opportunity. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u002294467cd9adc44e45b42622c1d0e5e0e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294467cd9adc44e45b42622c1d0e5e0e6\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I too am very pleased to see the final reading of the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill. The bill certainly has generated a lot of work between the two countries, and the agreement was able to be signed on the anniversary of the signing of the Closer Economic Relations agreement, which saw the original agreement on trans-Tasman court proceedings and regulatory enforcement signed. I made the point during the first reading that I was the one who had had the privilege of signing that agreement on behalf of the New Zealand Government, and it certainly was a privilege to do so because the steps that we were taking as two countries were quite ground-breaking steps. We had confidence in each other\u2019s judicial and regulatory institutions in order to sign off on such a significant piece of work. The legislation itself follows on from not only the signing of that agreement but also the significant amount of work undertaken by the working group, represented very well on both sides of the Tasman, which preceded the agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI found an article that was written at the time of the signing of the treaty by the Australian Attorney-General, Robert McClelland, and me, back in 2008. This particular article said that the signing of that treaty, once its advent was implemented by legislation, \u201Cwould make life a lot easier for businesses which now face a time-consuming and expensive process when dealing with trans-Tasman legal issues. Under the existing law, fines and civil penalties imposed by New Zealand courts cannot be enforced in Australia, and vice versa. Prosecutions under Australian law cannot be brought in New Zealand, and vice versa. Criminal proceedings initiated in one jurisdiction probably cannot be served in the other, although no one is absolutely sure about this, but civil penalty proceedings in most cases can be. Orders made under regulatory laws in one country are not applicable in the other. What all this means is the moves made over the past 25 years towards trans-Tasman harmonisation of competition, consumer, and other laws meet an abrupt brick wall when parties seek to utilise the enforcement might of the courts.\u201D It is that \u201Cabrupt brick wall\u201D that we are breaking down with the legislation we are passing today. I think it will be of significant benefit to businesses and individuals on both sides of the Tasman. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI also reflected during the Committee stage on a contribution made by the law firm Chapman Tripp in relation to concerns it had raised in respect of the potential departure from the longstanding rule that domestic courts do not enforce penal laws of foreign States, because to do so is contrary to the principles of independent sovereignty. I thank the Minister for Building and Construction on behalf of the Minister of Justice for addressing that issue in his third reading speech. Unfortunately he did not manage to do it during the Committee stage, but he touched on it in his third reading speech. He might not have been aware that he was doing that, but he answered the question about the significance of that change and why the Government had chosen to go down the pathway of breaking with an element of tradition in that regard. However, he did not manage to really explain it to the House, so perhaps the next speaker for the Government might like to put on the record of the House why there is a difference between civil pecuniary penalties and criminal penalties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe example that is used in this particular article by Chapman Tripp, which I think is worth raising again, and which I hope the Government responds to, is that the distinction between civil and criminal penalties may amount to nothing more than what I described in the Committee stage as dancing on the head of a pin. The example that Chapman Tripp gives is \u201Ca fine under section 40 of the Fair Trading Act is a criminal penalty, and a fine under section 80 of the Commerce Act is a civil penalty.\u201D I ask why one is an \u201Copt-in\u201D and the other an \u201Copt-out\u201D. That is a very simple question, and I can see that the next speaker for the Government, Chester Borrows, is really excited about the opportunity to be able to respond to that question. He looks set to explain to the House why it was decided that we would have on the civil penalty side a \u201Cnegative list\u201D approach\u2014that is, the penalties will be directly enforceable unless specifically excluded by Order in Council\u2014and that the regulatory regime on criminal fines would be directly enforceable only if declared to be so by Order in Council, which is the \u201Cpositive list\u201D approach. I am looking forward to quite a major contribution to the advancement of the law by the Government, stating for the record why there is a difference between the two approaches. I can see that the member opposite is looking forward to taking up that opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe other question I asked the Minister during the Committee stage was about the differences in law on both sides of the Tasman. It was the question of whether the regulatory regimes, because there are some nuanced differences in some instances but major differences in others between some of our competition laws in particular, would have a situation where the de facto operation of this arrangement would mean that the Australian law would apply in New Zealand and vice versa. I think that is a really good point to raise, and as I said in the Committee stage, I do not necessarily agree with the proposition that Chapman Tripp put forward in the article I have here. Personally, I think there are reasons for having different approaches on regulatory regimes, and sometimes a stepping stone towards a more coordinated and mutual regime is having the enforcement recognition that we have under this Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill. I am not completely struck by the argument, but I would like the Government to put on the record why it has adopted this particular approach so that those who take a great interest in these matters can understand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI am sure members of the legal profession who will utilise this legislation at some stage in the future will look back at the contribution of various members to this debate, and I know they will look most interestedly at Chester Borrows\u2019 contribution\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2617e785042427d949eb40eb7ae41fd\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: And the courts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c9ae36362e5473e9f99f4b4a0c2334c\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and the courts may look as well\u2014because if there is any doubt about the law, they will look at the history behind this bill and at the Government\u2019s thinking. Chester Borrows, as the chair of the Justice and Electoral Committee, is all over the detail of this legislation and will be able to explain to us such issues as, for example, whether \u201CThe New Zealand Commerce Commission is unlikely to accept arguments that a New Zealand penalty should be reduced to take account of penalties imposed in Australia in respect of the same or related conduct. Likewise for the Australian Securities and Investment Commission.\u201D Was that at the forefront of the Government\u2019s mind in its thinking around the adoption of the particular form of legislation? We also heard in the Committee stage about the changes that were made by the select committee. It adopted a purpose clause in line with the Australian legislation that has been recently passed. I commend the select committee for its excellent work, and that is why I am looking forward to the contribution from the chair of the select committee in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI thought I would close with reference to David Goddard QC, whom I know my colleague Charles Chauvel mentioned in his first reading speech. This is also mentioned in the article I referred to at the beginning of my contribution. David Goddard was a member of the trans-Tasman working group, and he described the changes as the minimum level of coordination required to achieve the goals of reducing the cost of trans-Tasman dispute resolution and enhancing the effectiveness of regulatory regimes. He concluded that the significance of the reforms should not be underestimated, as they represented the furthest-reaching such proposals between any two sovereign States with separate legal systems. That is an incredible endorsement of what we are able to achieve in Government and what this Government has been able to put in legislation. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00228f9fd341d6a64873bf60a9063455e666\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f9fd341d6a64873bf60a9063455e666\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E It is an unusual situation when both sides of the House find themselves in agreement on legislation, and in agreement on anything, I guess. So that is, if nothing else, cause for us all to reconsider our positions. The work that was done within the Justice and Electoral Committee on the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill was very strong. A magnanimous gesture was made across the House in accepting that both sides would be looking again at their positions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EA very insightful question was asked by the previous speaker, Lianne Dalziel. I understand that there is an arrangement as far as recovery of criminal debts by way of trans-Tasman fines is concerned, but I am sure that any lack of clarity will be cleared up by the erudite Minister of Justice when he speaks in the \u201Cfourth reading\u201D of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022da2d06df66ce437ca6f95ce5cde96c64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da2d06df66ce437ca6f95ce5cde96c64\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Members on this side have been pleased to support the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill through all its stages in Parliament because we think it is a good bill. It reflects, as has been noted, the very hard work of the previous Labour Government, and in particular that of my colleague the Hon Lianne Dalziel, who was Minister of Commerce at the time that the agreement the legislation is based on was reached.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThis is legislation that truly benefits business. As far as this Government\u2019s record is concerned, the simple re-enactment, or continuation of the enactment, of legislation largely originated by Lianne Dalziel, when she was either Associate Minister of Justice or Minister of Commerce, has constituted all of its meaningful pro-business law reform agenda. It is worth noting that that is actually the case. For all the rhetoric, for all the dog whistling about laws to extend the fire-at-will period to all businesses and the like, that sort of legislation will not make a difference to business in reality; the substantive reform, the pro-business law reform programme, is a continuation of the work of my colleague. I want to put that on the record of the House fairly and squarely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe other matter that I want to refer to up front is the inappropriateness of this legislation going through the House under urgency. There is no justification whatsoever for doing that. Although there is multiparty agreement on the appropriateness of the legislation and its importance, and, certainly, members on this side are pleased to see the legislation finally being progressed, the procedure adopted here is an embarrassment. The Minister in the chair during the Committee of the whole House, the Attorney-General, clearly had had the job foisted on him. He did not know the answers to questions on the Government\u2019s programme to allow the Governor-General, through clause 51, to extend the Act to certain tribunals and courts in Australia. He simply did not know the answers to significant questions. The Committee should have heard those answers and they should have been placed on the record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI do not blame the Minister for that. He did a good job in the circumstances. But he did have officials present, so he could have asked them a couple of questions so that he could enlighten the Committee on what the Government intended by further extending the scope of the bill\u2014which clearly is a good thing. That is what happens when legislation is rushed through under urgency, when the responsible Minister is not available to sit in the chair during the Committee stage and we have two substitute Ministers in the chair. They are simply not in a position to address the important questions. I would have hoped that, on a measure as important as this\u2014particularly when the Minister for Building and Construction, who gave the third reading speech in the House today, claims to be very pro-business\u2014we might see a slightly more respectful process in this House. Unfortunately, under this Government, that is a vain hope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255ff3d00098c41c7a5178c44f577efb3\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking of vain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265022dac68bf4294a809c27a03bba57b\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: That is an interesting interjection from a member opposite who is not known for his humility, let it be said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIt is true that it is good that the bill will allow a broader range of judgments to be registered and enforced between Australia and New Zealand. It will allow court appearances by video link between the two countries, and it will allow the enforcement of regulatory regimes supporting trans-Tasman markets. All of this will make the doing of business and the resolution of disputes across the Tasman far simpler and more affordable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EWhen I was working in the Sydney office of my old law firm, one of the constant frustrations for businesses and individuals doing business across the Tasman was that the integrated single economic market was going along apace and people were very much in favour of it, but when a legal dispute occurred between people based in, say, South Australia and New Zealand, there was no effective way of enforcing the judgment unless it was a dispute that could be resolved in the Federal Court of Australia on the one hand and the High Court of New Zealand on the other. Then a reciprocal enforcement procedure was introduced, thanks to work done by Geoffrey Palmer back in 1989-90, I think, when there were amendments to the High Court Rules and the rules of court of the Federal Court of Australia. If one was lucky enough to have a dispute case brought in the Federal Court on a federal matter in Australia, one could achieve some sort of mutual enforcement. But if the dispute was in a state court, or in any other court in the federal regime, one was essentially prejudiced. We are fixing that, finally. That is a desirable outcome, and that is why Labour substantially supports the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EOn the issue of economic catch-up with Australia, which is a mantra we hear a lot in this House, and outside it, these days, we need more of this sort of legislation to fix the real productivity issues that occur as roadblocks to trans-Tasman business. As I say, I would like to see more of this sort of substantive reform; reform that is well-thought-through and evidence-based, reform of the kind that was advanced so strongly by Lianne Dalziel and Michael Cullen in the previous Government, rather than dog-whistle slogans about increasing productivity and trying to catch up with Australia, which unfortunately is the record so far of members opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI will give an example of how the measures in this legislation are positive. An Australian-based company\u2014\u201CS\u201D\u2014is offering investment schemes to New Zealanders. It is registered as an overseas company in New Zealand, and it has appointed somebody to handle its legal proceedings here. It makes a misleading statement in one of its documents. \u201CS\u201D is prosecuted under the Securities Act, resulting in the imposition of a fine by the court. Well, under the current system, because \u201CS\u201D could withdraw all its assets from New Zealand and move them back to Australia to evade enforcement, it is not possible to enforce any fine. That is a waste of legal costs for all involved, and, in fact, people do not even bother with legal action in these circumstances, and there is no accountability under the laws of New Zealand, and that has a detrimental effect on respect for the legal system. Under the legislation proposed, our Securities Act would be more enforceable in Australia. The fine against the company would be as enforceable there as it would have been if a civil judgment had been made in a New Zealand court. That has to be a good thing, and it is something that certainly ought to be supported across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EAt the moment, as I have said, only final money judgments can be enforced on a trans-Tasman basis. There is no ability to get interim relief. The decisions of the tribunals of one country cannot be enforced in the other, and even though the Minister could not tell us which tribunals the Governor-General will extend the legislation to, we can assume that there will be such tribunals. The rules to determine which countries\u2019 courts will decide a matter are confusing, and neither civil pecuniary fines nor criminal fines can be enforced in a country other than the one they were imposed in. These are the sorts of real barriers to productivity that exist, these are the sorts of problems that ought to be addressed, but, instead, we see this Government trying to remove the rights of people to fairness at work. It says that that is the way to achieve better productivity on this side of the Tasman. Well, we know that is nonsense. We know that the way to get proper productivity and proper business law reform to the benefit of our nation is to advance bills like this. It is a shame that this one is being done through urgency, without the responsible Minister present to tell us the answers to some important questions. Lianne Dalziel has posed them, I have tried to pose some of them, and we have not heard answers, so we are not in the best space possible. None the less, the bill is finally going through and that is something we should be pleased about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00225bb4f86f810b4c1195b598798d11dd10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225bb4f86f810b4c1195b598798d11dd10\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E It is good to speak on the third reading of the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill. I spoke yesterday about the broader Australian relationship that this bill is a marker of and a facilitator of, if you like, in that it enables us to keep pace with the ever-closening relationships, business deals, and so on between us and Australia. I want to hone in, not in particular detail, on some of the things that this worthy bill does, in particular on the area of service. Service of proceedings is perhaps something that most people will not think twice about. In fact, it is a very interesting area, practically speaking, in principle, and conceptually. As a law clerk and first-year solicitor, I well remember having to serve proceedings by dumping them on people\u2019s doorsteps and the like. I was the principal debt collector for State Insurance in the firm I worked for, dealing with car accidents. Some of these cases went across the Tasman\u2014and I am sure it is even more the case now than it was in 2000 and 2001\u2014because people leave the country, they move over there, and the like. I can remember the kerfuffle that one would have in trying to serve these people and deal with things effectively, and then, if one got judgment, in enforcing that judgment across the Tasman, which is another practical part of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe bill simplifies arrangements and the processes that we have with Australia in relation to service and in relation to enforcement of judgments. I have talked about some pretty simple examples\u2014you know, someone crashes a car and they then take off to Australia. But of course we know that this will be just as important\u2014probably more so\u2014in very complex, large business transactions where we as a country and Australia as a country have every interest in keeping the relationships going and deepening those business relationships so that both sides of the Tasman can become more prosperous. Perhaps at first blush this is not the most exciting bill, but it is a very worthy bill and it is a marker of the ever-closer relations and mutual success we have with our trans-Tasman partner, Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00227ce43691c9fb43058899fcbfe6cea9ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ce43691c9fb43058899fcbfe6cea9ab\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki): \u003C/span\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. Kia ora t\u0101tau. M\u014Drena ki a t\u0101tau i t\u0113nei ata. I thought it would be appropriate to provide the M\u0101ori Party perspective on the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill and say from the outset that we are supportive of its intent. My job is to raise a couple of the issues that were raised through the submissions provided to the Justice and Electoral Committee and give some overview from our perspective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe passage of people across the Tasman is a phenomenon that appears to have also included M\u0101ori in its wake. In 2006 a report, namely M\u0101ori in Australia: Ng\u0101 M\u0101ori i Te Ao Moemoe\u0101 predicted that between 115,000 and 125,000 M\u0101ori are living in Australia. We in the M\u0101ori Party have been over to Australia, having been asked by wh\u0101nau members here to make contact with M\u0101ori there, and we can see the full extent of the challenges our people face in trying to maintain M\u0101ori cultural practices and in nurturing their sense of M\u0101ori identity in Ahitereiria, te whenua moemoe\u0101. Despite the best attempts and efforts of wh\u0101nau to bring loved ones home, it is fair to conclude that a significant number of M\u0101ori will continue to call Australia their home away from home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThis bill recognises, therefore, that there has been a significant increase in the movement of people, assets, and services between New Zealand and Australia. Almost 450,000 New Zealanders live in Australia, and I am told that about 60,000 Australians live in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EGiven the fact that M\u0101ori have been attracted across the Ditch to Te Ao Moemoe\u0101, it was somewhat of a surprise that there were no submissions whatsoever from iwi during the select committee process. Mind you, the select committee received a grand total of three submissions only, I am told, from interested groups and individuals. However, one person by the name of Siaosi Tofi raised the concern that the bill will affect M\u0101ori interests and unfairly disadvantage M\u0101ori. Siaosi asked that the select committee investigate properly the potential effect of this legislation on M\u0101ori, and its implications for them. In particular, the submitter was concerned that Australian judges might decide civil disputes concerning M\u0101ori land or cultural and intellectual property. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe impact of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples was also mentioned. As members will be aware, the New Zealand Government has recently expressed its support for the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, and the Australian Government expressed its support for it in April 2009. The question that Siaosi Tofi asked was: \u201CMight there be a situation where the trans Tasman agreement and this bill come into direct conflict with the UN declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples to which NZ is a signatory?\u201D. The Ministry of Justice, I am pleased to say, addressed the concerns raised by Siaosi. Clause 24 of the bill and section 19 of the Australian Trans-Tasman Proceedings Act adopt a common forum or give-way rule, as between Australia and New Zealand. This should ensure that where the New Zealand court is more appropriate to determine a proceeding, that proceeding will be heard here and not in Australia. This will assist New Zealand - based litigants, including M\u0101ori. Although the range of enforceable Australian judgements is being expanded, this will not have an adverse effect on the issue of M\u0101ori land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ENevertheless, despite the submission of Siaosi Tofi, this bill is primarily focused on the challenges posed by trans-Tasman trade relationships. The level of investment in goods and services brings about a greater number of disputes involving individuals or businesses with a cross-border element. This bill aims, therefore, for the dispute resolution processes to be cheaper, more efficient, and less complicated. This bill is supposedly intended to deliver tangible benefits to individuals and businesses in New Zealand and Ahitereiria. We therefore support it here at its third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022afb67bd10f8a4418a7024c54418c84df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afb67bd10f8a4418a7024c54418c84df\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to stand and take a call on this bill. As I said earlier today, it is good to see a bill that adds value before the House, because certainly that has not been the case with much of the legislation we have seen over the last week or two, or indeed since National came into Government. But I will get back to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI will go through the history of the bill, because it does show a commitment. It shows the commitment of two nations working together for what will only enhance legal proceedings and civil justice systems in both countries. The Trans-Tasman Working Group on Court Proceedings and Regulatory Enforcement was established back in 2003 by the Prime Minister, Helen Clark, and, of course, the Prime Minister of Australia, John Howard, so we see there that it was certainly non-partisan, and that two nations, two Governments were working together for the greater good. That working group reported back in December 2006 and made many, many recommendations, which included the use of video technology to allow witnesses to appear while overseas, and an increase in the types of judgments that could be enforced in each country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThe agreement was signed in Christchurch by Lianne Dalziel and by Robert McClelland, Australia\u2019s Attorney-General, and that happened in July 2008. I think it is quite significant that it happened in Christchurch, which of course is Lianne Dalziel\u2019s home town, because she had put so much time and energy into this work. It was very fitting that Lianne had the opportunity to do that; I know that for her it was a very important part of her role at that time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThat agreement, which I have to say that I was mistaken about\u2014which was pretty ridiculous because I was on the Justice and Electoral Committee\u2014was covered by the Law and Order Committee. When the committee looked at the agreement, it looked at the number of benefits that would flow by simplifying trans-Tasman court proceedings, by expanding the range of enforceable judgments, by improving the enforcement between Australia and New Zealand, by supporting the success of the trans-Tasman relationship, and by avoiding the incentive\u2014and I think this is really important\u2014for people to move themselves or their assets to another country, in order to put themselves out of the range of accountability. That is really a large part of the justice measures we have seen from this mutual cooperation\u2014there is no other way to put it\u2014of the Trans Tasman Proceedings Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI want to correct what I said earlier. I mistakenly made a remark that was perhaps not very complimentary in terms of the chairing of the committee. I acknowledge Chester Borrows, although at times I certainly do not agree with some of his views, and certainly do not lately, when looking at his and his party\u2019s views on dealing to employees and taking away employment rights in New Zealand\u2014and indeed human rights, if we look at the 90-day \u201CSack at Will Act\u201D that will be extended to cover all employers in New Zealand. Such things certainly do not bring about a feeling of warmth or working together from this side of the House. I was very disappointed in Chester\u2019s speaking out about that at that stage, but certainly with this bill he chaired the select committee very well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI know that a number of amendments were recommended by the select committee. As Simon\u2014what is Simon\u2019s other name?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd5e22105e1e4bccbcc91f424f4e2492\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Bridges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d9f7671bb304cae9eccb243f0987054\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: As Simon Bridges\u2014affectionately known to everyone as Clark Kent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224920caa2179a416db2d00393acde1366\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Or Gok Wan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a443eddb96c1426ea5e8efb9be33b578\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or Gok Wan\u2014said, it was not the most exciting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e85b47765f9f494da2069b178027c0fc\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s way too flattering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc78767c884b48bf974d999c855f5fcb\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: People are saying that Gok Wan is way cooler than Simon Bridges, but that is not the point; I think he is making an honest attempt to look cool and trendy, and we should acknowledge that. But as Simon Bridges said, the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill is probably not the most exciting bill that we have had before the select committee, but the committee is hard-working\u2014well, most of the members are pretty hard-working; certainly the Labour members are\u2014and the bill is important. It is a very, very important bill, and it enhances the relationship that we have with Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI will perhaps again go through a couple of the amendments that the select committee made. There were not many submissions to the select committee, but the submissions that were made and the feedback the select committee received were very, very productive and helpful. I certainly think that there was a will from everybody on the select committee that this bill needed to be brought forward in the best way possible to enhance our relationship with Australia, and to see that people were held accountable and could not simply use a move to Australia to avoid that accountability. Of course, people are moving to Australia in droves under this Government, even though the Government said they would not. Most people do not go to Australia to avoid accountability; they go to Australia because this Government has not created any jobs or invested in any training here\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ae6c8f5179149c3a77b787d0df2b2b9\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Or increased wages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226abac417866a41ff8f99c5f48dfc6fb5\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or increased wages\u2014despite all the rhetoric and despite all the promises. Although the majority of people are going to Australia, especially now, because there is no hope of them getting support for their families, they are probably going for a quality early childhood education, as well, as we see that being denigrated here. Of course, many other things are causing concern for New Zealanders and persuading them to go across the Tasman. But a small number would travel to Australia to avoid being accountable for any misdemeanours they have done in New Zealand, and of course both sides of the House find that totally unacceptable, as indeed did Helen Clark and John Howard when they started the working group that led to this bill. That is why it is good for everyone to acknowledge the work that was done in the earlier days\u2014not in the hugely early days but certainly in the earlier days\u2014and also the work whereby this bill is now coming into effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI think it is worth acknowledging some of the work that the select committee did. I also acknowledge the very hard-working staff of the select committee; they do a fantastic job. We have a really, really good clerk and support people. I also acknowledge the officials, who gave us very good advice. That was very much appreciated, not only by the chair but by all members of the committee. Having the ability to send back to the House a very comprehensive report that certainly improves the bill can happen only when we have the support of good select committee staff, and of course of advisers working as a team alongside the members of the committee. In this instance, that was certainly the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003ESome of the improvements that the select committee recommended were about applications for a stay of proceedings, the power of the New Zealand court to decline jurisdiction, the procedural rules of the court, the service of initiating documents in Australia, and the defendant\u2019s address for service. As the bill was introduced, it did not expressly allow for a defendant\u2019s address for service to be changed to another address in either Australia or New Zealand. I am pleased to say that that action is now able to happen under the bill, because issues were raised, canvassed, and improved during the select committee process. There are also issues around the power of an Australian court or tribunal in New Zealand, to permit an Australian court or tribunal to exercise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212689dbca2154e448d53619e6830b8a4\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I regret to advise the member that her time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u00222fcb047cd4fd44f8afe4ced43418c943\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fcb047cd4fd44f8afe4ced43418c943\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA (National):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker Barker. Kia t\u0101tou hoki huri noa i t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare. I am pleased to stand and take a call on the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill. As previous speakers have noted\u2014or as I, at least, would like to characterise it\u2014this bill puts into civil and technical jurisprudential language the common-sense relationship that New Zealand is interested in securing, stabilising, and sustaining with Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EWe have long been committed to a single economic market between our two countries. In fact, that commitment was the subject of our Prime Minister\u2019s state of the nation speech earlier this year, and it has continued to be demonstrated by a number of bills and other work that our National-led Government is doing. The trans-Tasman relationship is extremely important to New Zealand in many dimensions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EThis bill places on a very sound and comprehensive platform the civil jurisdiction between our two countries. It enhances international legal cooperation, which is a vital part of the Government\u2019s broader economic agenda. As we all know, businesses require certainty in the way that they carry out their business. The role that the law and civil jurisdiction plays is a critical part of that certainty. This bill, as speakers have discussed, provides that certainty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EAustralia is often the first stop for New Zealand businesses looking to expand offshore and to develop overseas markets, but getting to grips with different federal and state legislatures can be rather complex and difficult. This bill provides for the establishment of one seamless set of rules that will allow businesses, whether they are geographically located here in New Zealand or in Australia, to be able to be confident that they understand what their liabilities are and what remedies may be available to them in the conduct of their business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EThe bill is an important step towards closer cooperation and integration of the Australian and New Zealand civil justice systems, and it enhances the legal cooperation between our two countries. It shows that we have greater confidence in each other, not only at a business level but also in terms of the judicial and regulatory institutions that operate between our two countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EMr Bridges spoke about his example of someone who flees his or her responsibilities here in New Zealand. In the past that person has been able to seek protection, if not invisibility, by relocating him or herself to Australia. At that particular level of criminal malfeasance, that will no longer be possible, at least in the civil sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EMy colleague Te Ururoa Flavell talked about the many, many M\u0101ori who have relocated to Australia and set up successful businesses there. One often wishes they would come home to New Zealand and contribute the business nous that they have established. This bill provides a platform to ensure that those businesses continue to flourish, and that the across-the-Tasman relationship that goes on every day as M\u0101ori seek to cement and continue their whakapapa ties with New Zealand is supported by this legislative context as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EThere will no longer be any possibility of avoidance between our two jurisdictions of Australia and New Zealand. That gives comfort not only to businesses but to travellers on both sides of the Tasman. Since the Australia and New Zealand Closer Economic Relations Trade Agreement was signed 26 years ago, when many of us in the House were but 5 or 6 years old\u2014no, no\u2014but since the agreement was signed 26 years ago\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f07633f6cb4e435bb7a575ca216d1c2b\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244052be9c87844078b2d674f2e53cd1f\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously I was not able to get that one past my colleague Te Ururoa Flavell, but the rest of the House seems to agree on the lack of ageing amongst many of us here. Since the agreement was signed a generation ago, many other steps have been put in place to secure the relationship between Australia and New Zealand, and the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill is yet another example of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EThere has been good progress on the single economic market between Australia and New Zealand. We have worked towards, and are making good progress on, a single cross-border insolvency proceeding. Another key area is in progress on the alignment of accounting standards for profit entities, the establishment of an accounting and auditing standard, and the establishment of infrastructure that will mirror that of Australia, so that we will have not only a happy legal fraternity but also an equally happy accountancy fraternity, as those professionals see that significant legislation incorporated into the relationship between New Zealand and Australia. Another key area is in the potential for mutual recognition of auditors and financial advisers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003ESo, as we can see, we are steadily and incrementally putting in place a strong foundation for professional relationships between Australia and New Zealand. The Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill is yet another example of that. I commend this bill to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00220efd1cec49e2420f82dfbfa305d3f4b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220efd1cec49e2420f82dfbfa305d3f4b8\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to speak on the Trans-Tasman Proceedings Bill. I was a member of the Justice and Electoral Committee, which considered this bill. I have to say that with bills like this, one often sees a select committee at its best. It is simply a matter of making sure that we have got all of the nuts and bolts worked out. This bill has traversed both a Labour Government and now a National Government. I point out that a piece of work like this bill has not come together simply in the past 12 or even 24 months. In fact, this bill results from a work programme that really, if we went back to its foundations, we would find began under Helen Clark. I think that that was in 2003 in conjunction with John Howard\u2014how things can change\u2014and eventually, through an agreement signed by Lianne Dalziel in 2008. I think that was an appropriate commentary on where we are currently with our closer economic agreement with Australia, and how that is now becoming incorporated into so many pieces of our legislation and our legal framework as New Zealand\u2019s ties with Australia become closer, and the borders between the two become weaker and weaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe Minister has already pointed out that the primary aim, which is to simplify the resolution of legal disputes that traverse across trans-Tasman boundaries, is essentially to try to reduce the cost and complexity of trans-Tasman litigation, and I think that is something very few people would hold any objection to. But I also point out that in the wider context of New Zealand\u2019s closer legal relationship with Australia, and both countries\u2019 attempts to streamline and create greater efficiencies in acknowledgment of the globalisation we are all now subject to, we still maintain, obviously, our own sovereignty, and our own right to make decisions that reflect the New Zealand context when it comes to our legal obligations in consulting with our Australian counterparts under various treaties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThat was probably demonstrated most recently in the decision that the Minister for Food Safety made around folate. The food safety legislation sets out that the Minister is obliged to consult with his or her Australian counterparts to ensure that we comply with our agreements in that area\u2014because, again, that is another area where we try to streamline. The Minister demonstrated that New Zealand can make its own decisions. Labour would argue that she made absolutely the wrong decision, and an abhorrent one, at that, to decide not to introduce folate into bread, and we will suffer the consequences of that, but it probably, again, demonstrates the point that New Zealand still maintains a level of sovereignty over those mutual agreements and treaties. I do not think that it was the best way to prove that point, and we will continue to suffer for that. But it is just an example that I thought would be timely to raise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI will go over some of the points in the bill that demonstrate how we have maintained the balance in ensuring the key elements of our justice system are maintained in the way that this legislation will work. Nonetheless, it is a significant piece of work. David Goddard QC, who was originally a member of the trans-Tasman working group, said that these are the furthest-reaching proposals between two sovereign States with separate legal systems. So let us be under no illusion; they are significant. A lot of work has gone into them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe working group reported in 2006, and amongst its recommendations it delved into how New Zealand and Australia would apply differing rules around video technology. Since those recommendations have been made, we have introduced earlier this year our own legislation on the use of audiovisual link technology in courts. I think we got the balance right eventually. Members will recall that there was a considerable stoush in this House over whether the extension of the use of audiovisual link technology had gone too far, but I am very pleased a compromise was reached and I think we got the right outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2041b3b56014f34a31f6eefcf7e364d\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: It wasn\u2019t a stoush; it was a good debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee8844409f3d4ca5a0f34f76e8f529f9\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I accept, I say to the Minister, that \u201Cstoush\u201D may be too strong a word and I acknowledge the fact that he made a considerable concession, from his perspective, and I appreciate that. I think the words we use in this House are \u201Crobust debate\u201D. In respect of audiovisual link technology in this particular bill, the select committee made it clear that the Courts (Remote Participation) Act will not apply to remote appearances made under this bill. In fact, the trans-Tasman evidence regime will operate in parallel and will not override or be subject to the Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters Act. It was important, given the fact that the select committee had dealt with those pieces of legislation, that it ensured there was clarity around that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBut what are the main provisions of the bill? Essentially they can be drilled down into seven parts, and I want to traverse some of those briefly. The first is that when civil proceedings are commenced in New Zealand the bill provides that an initiating document for proceedings may be served in Australia as well. There are three exceptions to this but each of those is reasonable. Some other members of the House have already talked about the kinds of circumstances that might arise from civil litigation, for instance, over the sale of a house, etc., where the seller may have moved overseas. This now means that if those civil proceedings related to New Zealand began there, that initiating document then can still be served to an individual based in Australia. I think members would have to acknowledge that that can be commonplace now, given the state of movement between our two countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe second key point in the legislation is that a defendant in civil proceedings can apply to have the proceedings heard in an Australian court, with certain criteria met. That was one of the changes that the select committee made. We wanted to make sure that the bill was consistent over where proceedings were heard. We wanted to make sure that a person served in Australia for New Zealand proceedings can apply for a stay of proceedings on the grounds that the matter should be dealt with by an Australian court. That was about ensuring consistency with the other subparts in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe third key point relates directly to the provision that a party to proceedings commenced in an Australian court may apply for interim relief in a New Zealand court. The fourth is around remote appearances and remote evidence, which is covered by the Evidence Act, and I have already clarified the hierarchy of legislation in that regard. Then the fifth is the recognition of enforcement in New Zealand of specified Australian judgments. This is quite an important piece of the bill; it provides for the enforcement of Australian judgments in New Zealand, and goes beyond just final monetary judgments. There was some discussion in the select committee about how this related to guardianship. We had some very important technical submissions around this, and I thank those submitters who made those contributions to this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThose probably cover the most significant parts of the bill. It was obvious when the select committee was hearing evidence on this bill and considering it in detail that at the same time officials were working alongside Australian counterparts to make sure we had married up both pieces of legislation accurately. So a lot of the changes made at select committee probably bear out that we were at that point in the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I think that this demonstrates an important piece of work that shows that we do have to acknowledge the greater transience between Australia and New Zealand. Family relationships and legal relationships cut across the borders of Australia and New Zealand more and more, and our legal systems need to demonstrate that. But at the same time we need to make the decisions that are right for us as a country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022158819b7a1bb4f489efe8ba08719d15d\u0022\u003ETaxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225a906258766b44f6acb1318ca5022d02\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6cb8b81e0fd4bd7a6e9b505a828eeee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6cb8b81e0fd4bd7a6e9b505a828eeee\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the Committee stage of the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill to be taken as one question, notwithstanding Standing Order 333, and for there to be unlimited calls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5c6b82ad70c4923bfcd6f087a163047\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022752230a1b0f8447b806ae66651704069\u0022\u003EParts 1 to 5, schedules 1 and 2, and clauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u002292dc9a9c471144d58e23dc713ac171ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292dc9a9c471144d58e23dc713ac171ef\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chairperson\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022853f689d4af148bfa7d08999a7da5671\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: It was just about all over.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f43027d3c2c74e78acc6bd70340f7650\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: The member should not confuse politeness with indecision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb63bd11184a4707a429643634ec726e\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Fair enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c39b8185d812455e9d8a0b7d7c1a0462\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Fair enough. I am pleased to say civility in the Chamber is not dead. Labour supports the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill, but there are a number of important matters in it that bear the Committee\u2019s consideration in some detail. I give notice that Labour will be introducing an amendment from Stuart Nash to this bill, which will seek to exempt local authority rates from the higher rate of GST during the year of transition to that rate. That amendment follows from the massive 28 pages of amendments on Government Supplementary Order Papers that are already known as the \u201Cwhoops, we forgot about the changes on the way to breaking our promise\u201D amendments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EA number of important measures contained in this bill are worthy of the consideration and support of the whole Committee. The trans-Tasman portability of retirement savings has long been an issue, and this Government is now seeking to legislate on it, based on work started by the previous Labour administration. We commend the Government for bringing that work to a conclusion, and we thank our partners across the Tasman for facilitating an agreement on that matter. The bill introduces new rules for 18-year-olds who seek to enrol in KiwiSaver; flexibility in the provisions applying to a resident cooperative company; the effective cancellation of branch equivalent tax account debits around conduit-relieved dividends; a number of new rules around binding rulings, which will be of particular interest to the banking sector; and exemptions from gift duty for gifts made to local and central government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIt has been interesting to read press reports about the Crafar farms deal, because the current Government appears to be receiving $200,000 in gifts from the consortium behind the Crafar farms deal. If I might, I will interrupt this bipartisan broadcast to say what an outrage it is that this Government is accepting that kind of, I hesitate to say bribe, but gratuity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c0c6f012b444b918140446f35d03ffa\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: No, he can\u2019t say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d381fd3e3054ebe9bf43c87ce0747e2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: That is why I hesitated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254f9e09306a24828a2599f7514f360c6\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. You may have missed it while you were having a conversation with the Minister in the chair, but the phrase just used by the member who has resumed his seat, in relation to a matter that has no bearing on this Committee stage or the bill that is being considered by the Committee, is outside the Standing Orders. The member should withdraw and apologise for using that phrase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223effb989fda5464f8506fdd36ff0d797\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Chairperson, I point out in the first instance that it cannot be outside the scope of the bill, because the bill contains an exemption for gifts made to central government. That was why I raised the point. But, more important, I used the phrase \u201CI hesitate to say\u201D a word, which I then did not use. So the Minister is rather jumping at shadows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284c2e4bd7c8f454791c6a267339c1819\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: You did use it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022207d8312bfda45c4894dc5d7f545a48c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I used the word \u201Cgratuity\u201D, and I submit that that is not outside\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0d3d0f625574ca19ebe4ad0936a3267\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is not correct. Although I accept the first part of the member\u2019s explanation that he said something to the effect of \u201CI would hesitate to use\u201D, it was the word that followed those introductory remarks that members on this side of the Chamber have taken offence to. It was not the word \u201Cgratuity\u201D; it was another word. The member knows what the word is, and he should apologise for using it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022749aadd6cb50446ebad6d84dcc2387d6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: To clarify the point, I said \u201CI hesitate to say bribe, but gratuity\u201D. So I did not, in fact, use the word \u201Cbribe\u201D, and there is nothing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243fc35c37efd4d768d2aaf761c744f78\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the member that that might be cute, but it does not cut the mustard. To simply say \u201CI\u2019m not going to say something\u201D and then utter the word is effectively the same as using the word. The member has condemned himself by his own words. The member will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022987c2b48e3e94ef1b3bc9bd39a5a4099\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. This is a very important bill, because it shows that in the Government breaking its promise not to raise GST\u2014and there can be no doubt that the Government did make a promise and it did subsequently break it\u2014it has fallen afoul of the huge complexity that is now falling on ordinary Kiwi businesses and households. That is why Ernst and Young and other prominent consulting and accounting firms are saying things like this. I quote from Ernst and Young last week: \u201CAs we face the harsh reality of the 1 October GST increase to 15 percent many are realising this is not a modest increase and the issues are actually more complex than anyone first imagined.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIf anybody doubts the truth of that statement, he or she needs to look no further than the Minister\u2019s own 28-page Supplementary Order Papers, the \u201CWhoops, we should have thought of this before we made the change\u201D amendments, which it is very important that the Committee now addresses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dab889fbeef04b51a85697bc7f4bf4d9\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve made that joke, David.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222afb75e1eb724bcaa62974f871b60c07\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: That brings me to Mr Garrett. Mr Garrett has Supplementary Order Paper 158 in his name on KiwiSaver contribution rates, which Labour, after sincere thought, will be supporting. The Supplementary Order Paper suggests that members of the public should have the choice to up their KiwiSaver contribution rate to 4 percent, 6 percent, or 8 percent. What is really interesting about this is that there is no matching contribution from employers or the Government. We think that is a matter of concern. Although we do not oppose people having choice about their contribution rate, we note that in the last 24 hours the Minister of Finance, Bill English, has told the country that any changes recommended by the Savings Working Group to improve KiwiSaver must be revenue-neutral. Well, let us hang on a second. If the Government will not contribute to better incentives for savings, if it thinks that a big, bold solution is required, and if the employer is not to contribute, which the Supplementary Order Paper makes clear, then exactly who is to contribute to it? The answer is logical: Kiwi households and individuals. If New Zealanders around the country are not to be incentivised, why would they pay more? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EOne can only reach the interim conclusion that compulsion is coming to a town near you. Compulsion is coming from the Government that has railed against the nanny State. Will it be the granny State, with compulsory superannuation? Has Crosby/Textor thrown a loop somewhere? Has something gone wrong with the polling that the Minister has been doing? What has got into this Government? Here is a Supplementary Order Paper masquerading as a measure that will provide more choice. At the same time, the Minister of Finance is saying there will be no new incentives from the Government and the measure has to be fiscally neutral, yet the Government is making no move to improve employer contributions. That means only one thing: New Zealanders will be stuck with higher GST and compulsory savings, which will be met from a pay cheque that has hardly moved during the recession. And many people are without jobs. How many people are unemployed? It is 159,000 people, which is 19,000 more people than a couple of months ago. It is absolutely clear in that context that there is no recovery hitting Main Street. It is not hitting Wall Street either, but it is certainly not hitting Main Street in the country towns and cities of New Zealand, because the dole queues are lengthening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe debate that the House is about to have on KiwiSaver and improving New Zealand\u2019s saving rates is indeed crucial; no, more than that, it is fundamental. It is fundamental because New Zealand\u2019s international debt is approaching 100 percent of GDP. It is more than $40,000 for every man, woman, and child, and most of it is personal private debt that has been used to borrow for home mortgages in order to bid house prices up. There are some problems with that. The first is that we cannot eat our house, so it is a very awkward form of retirement savings. Secondly, the capital that we borrowed from foreigners has not gone into supporting our businesses or improving productivity. It is simply making housing less affordable. I would argue that that helps nobody in the long run. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe Government, after 2 years of having no plan, and after 2 years and two Budgets of denying that the savings gap even exists, has finally woken up to the mess and said it had better get a plan. It wondered how it would produce a plan, given that National did not think of one while it was in Opposition, so it decided to have another working-group. After two Budgets and 2 years of National being in Government, finally there is to be a committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212f01718-dc1f-4307-b0b3-451098ab73df\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250b45e697b2846b2948cc183b276b281\u0022\u003EDr Ashraf Choudhary\u003C/span\u003E: Another committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261171dbf0a1647009211af915b825693\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: Another committee. It is to be just like the Tax Working Group, when eminent people from the private sector and academia were put to work on a hard problem, but then the Government ignored most of the recommendations. Will the Government ignore the recommendations of the Savings Working Group? Or has it thoroughly tied the hands of the group\u2019s members before they start? The poor old experts on the group will have a very narrow ambit within which to come up with recommendations: no new Government money, a Government shy of employer contributions, and no more incentives. Oops, that must mean compulsion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EWhen we look at the fine print of the terms of reference for the working-group, we find a couple of other sneaky little things. The first is the phrase \u201CGovernment savings\u201D. We all know what Government savings are, do we not? Government savings are slash-and-burn in the Government\u2019s Budget. That is how the Government saves, under National. Three-quarters of the Government\u2019s Budget is spent on health, education, and social services, which means that if we are to have Government savings, it will be saving on the teachers in our kids\u2019 schools, the doctors, nurses, orderlies, and cleaners in our hospitals, and the cops on the beat. That is how the Government makes savings. There are no more back-office services to be cut. This Government is through the fat and the meat, and is into the bone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe other sneaky little phrase in the terms of reference is \u201Ca lack of incentives\u201D. KiwiSaver was right down the bottom of the list. It was almost as though the Government was embarrassed to cover it. But when the Government did cover it, it talked about examining the fairness and equity of KiwiSaver, as though it is to try to pull it apart. There was no language about boosting KiwiSaver. There was no language about strengthening the scheme in order to get more New Zealanders involved. There are 1 million Kiwis in KiwiSaver at the moment. It is the best and biggest single attempt that New Zealand has ever made to improve the savings rate since Norman Kirk started the New Zealand superannuation scheme. And of course we know what happened to that: Rob Muldoon killed it. That was a $50 billion mistake, which is rivalled only by the decision of Bill English and John Key to can the pre-funding of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u002294c76de7adc945eb882c093827e27dd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294c76de7adc945eb882c093827e27dd7\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E I begin by congratulating the member who has just resumed his seat, David Cunliffe, on an extraordinary effort to make something out of very little. It was a commendable effort, and I am sure it is a good lead-in to the line he will follow throughout the remainder of this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003ELet me remind the Committee what we are debating this morning. We are debating the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill 2009. This bill came into the House last November to make, as the member conceded, a number of worthy changes that most people support. This is not a bill to debate measures that were put into the public arena only yesterday, that will be the subject of public debate over the next few months, and that will lead to some decisions being made, which will come to the House next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe member also made some comments about the changes that Supplementary Order Paper 157\u2014which is 13 pages, not 28\u2014introduces to the GST regime. I found that rather extraordinary. I appreciate the member was not in the House in 1989\u2014I was\u2014when the Labour Government increased the rate of GST from 10 percent to 12.5 percent. The contrast between what has happened now and what happened at that point is worth bringing to the attention of the Committee. In May 1989 the Government announced an increase in the rate of GST from 10 percent to 12.5 percent, to take effect from 1 July that year\u2014so there was 8 weeks\u2019 lead time. No compensation was paid to low-income groups, or to anyone on a benefit or any form of fixed payment who might be adversely affected. Contrast that with this year\u2019s changes, which were announced in May and take effect on 1 October. There will be full compensation for all those on fixed incomes and benefits, superannuation, etc., including National Provident Fund and Government Superannuation Fund recipients. This is a vast change from the 1989 situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EIn 1989 business simply had to adjust to all of the issues around the transformation within the space of 8 weeks. This year we established the GST Advisory Panel for the specific purpose of allowing those upon whom the rate change would have some technical impact to have their issues considered, and for those issues, if they required a legislative solution, to then be addressed in this bill when it came to the House at this time. So the Supplementary Order Paper, and I gather from the member\u2019s comments that he supports the provisions in the Supplementary Order Paper, deals with a number of taxpayer-friendly situations that will give specific relief on a number of the issues that have arisen\u2014for instance, lay-bys, insurance contracts, and so on and so forth\u2014all of which fall in that particular transition period. So I find the member\u2019s complaint that this is an \u201Coops, we should have done it better last time round\u201D measure to be somewhat ironic, given the history. The last time his party was in a position to change the GST rate, it simply stated: \u201CThe rate takes effect from this date. You fall where you may, in terms of your compliance with it.\u201D What we have done, through the GST Advisory Panel and the amendments before the Committee, is give some clarity and some certainty to the business community and to the consumers of New Zealand who will be affected by that change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EFinally, I was grateful for the member\u2019s confirmation, in the round-about way in which he spoke, of something that I have long suspected was the Labour Party\u2019s long-term agenda with regard to savings and taxation. When the member spoke about the work of the Tax Working Group and the fact that the Government chose not to implement some of its recommendations, it was clear that he was signalling that a land tax, a capital gains tax, and some of the other measures that this Government has so specifically ruled out, are very much on his party\u2019s agenda. As the debate begins, it is good to have on the record that the Labour Party is saying it would introduce a capital gains tax and a land tax; that is great to know, as part of the ongoing debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThis bill is substantially user-friendly. It makes a lot of changes in terms of savings portability with Australia, in terms of the implementation of the GST changes, and in terms of other matters that have been the subject of some public angst for a while and are now being addressed in a way that is satisfactory and favourable to the interests of most taxpayers. Therefore I commend the bill to the Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5cfa89c9f304320a0caa90eee630fe5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5cfa89c9f304320a0caa90eee630fe5\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to say just one thing: I did not hear the Hon David Cunliffe say that the Labour Party was going to introduce a capital gains tax or a land tax. The reason I did not hear that was David Cunliffe did not say it, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI have put forward a typescript amendment to the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill. The intent of the amendment is to exempt local authority rate payments for residential properties due during the 2010-11 financial year from the GST increase legislated to come into effect on 1 October 2010, and I urge the Government to support it. There are two reasons why I have introduced this amendment. The first reason is that I have a very real concern about the impact of the GST increase on the vast majority of New Zealanders, and the second reason is that I believe we need to do something about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe Government has already recognised that the increase in GST will cause a number of issues for taxpayers. Accordingly, it has introduced amendments to exempt a number of contracts and transactions, such as 5-year finance leases, lay-by sales, and insurance contracts, from the increased GST rate over a transition period. Local authority rate instalment payments are similar in principle and practice. They are a contract between the local council and the homeowner, for which an invoice has already been sent. Although councils are offering to charge a GST rate of 12.5 percent to ratepayers who can pay their bills in one lump sum as they fall due on 1 July, many New Zealanders are not in the position to take advantage of that offer. Those who are unable to pay in full will be required to pay some of their annual rates bills at the current 12.5 percent GST rate and some at the new 15 percent GST rate, which puts them at an additional disadvantage compared with those able to pay in full. Essentially, those who are least able to afford it will be required to pay more. I do not think this is fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis amendment amends the bill to ensure that no ratepayer is unfairly disadvantaged by the increase in GST over the transition period. I make the point that times are tough for many hard-working New Zealanders at the moment. I take the example of the Napier electorate where the median income is only $22,700, which means that 73 percent of people in Napier earn below $40,000 a year. Napier is a city typical of many around the country where a significant proportion of the population will see very little, if any, benefit from the 1 October tax cuts. When we add in the impact of the GST rise, we know that the family budget will be stretched to breaking point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EMany of these fine people are, however, living the Kiwi dream; they own their own homes. They have saved hard and they take pride in the fact that they are bringing up a family, or have brought up a family, in their own house. However, the cost of owning that house is about to increase. Residents, by and large, understand that rates go towards paying for essential services in the community. This time, however, a portion of any increase will not go towards improving their communities; it will go into the pockets of the Government in the form of GST.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ETimes are tough out there, and people who doubt this should go and talk to the budget advice services operating in their communities. I have, and I do it on a regular basis. I know that the fantastic people in those services are beginning to see a different type of clientele, such as homeowners who have lost their jobs that once provided good incomes, and that is of huge concern. I urge the Government, through the Minister of Revenue, to cut the good people of New Zealand a bit of slack and support this typescript amendment that exempts local authority rate payments due during the 2010-11 financial year from the GST increase legislated to come into effect on 1 October 2010. That is fair, that is just, and we are on the side of the angels here. We do not want the good, hard-working people of New Zealand to be disadvantaged any more. I urge the Government to support this amendment. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u002236fa2af9d3a345c4a03465cec32140ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236fa2af9d3a345c4a03465cec32140ae\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E As a member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee I am very pleased to contribute to this debate, and to support the amendment in the name of my colleague Stuart Nash, in respect of some effort\u2014some small effort\u2014at some relief for the modest and low income New Zealanders who will be walloped by the increase in GST from 1 October. Those sorts of people, such as those in my electorate of Christchurch Central, 76 percent of whom earn less than $40,000 a year, are the sorts of people who need every bit of assistance they can get. This amendment is very timely and appropriate for assisting those people most in need. It acknowledges that those who have the money in the bank can pay their rates on 1 July, and pay them at a GST rate of 12.5 percent, but that most New Zealanders cannot do that. They will pay on a rates instalment system, so they will be subject to a rate of 15 percent for GST across the balance of the year. Obviously, this amendment provides a sensible mechanism for acknowledging that many New Zealanders are under very real pressure at the moment\u2014very real pressure. We are feeling it across the country. The recession is still with us, and the economy is still not in real recovery, so we need to assist those on middle and lower incomes across New Zealand and do all we can to make sure they can survive. This amendment is a very appropriate and modest measure, and I urge the Government to consider supporting it, just as we in Labour are supporting the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper. That is a very small method towards providing some relief for low and middle income New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI will comment for a moment that of course the Minister in the chair, the Hon Peter Dunne, is a great fan and supporter of the whole process of income splitting, and is obviously moving that forward as much as he can at the moment. That is a measure that particularly assists those in higher-income brackets, but this amendment is about assisting those who are in the middle and lower income brackets. They are the ones most deserving of assistance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe primary function of this bill is to allow the flow of savings generated in Australia by New Zealanders who have been resident there for some time to be brought back home. I applaud and encourage this bill in respect of that. It makes absolute sense when our economies are very intertwined and when many New Zealanders have spent a considerable portion of their working lives in Australia. They have contributed, of course, to that country\u2019s compulsory superannuation scheme at the rate of a 9 percent employer contribution. That is a fantastic savings record. Those people can bring back earnings that are many multiples of what many New Zealanders are able to save towards their retirement. That will be a very good cash-flow back into the New Zealand economy, so this bill is very, very appropriate in that respect, and very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI note that the Government is now finally recognising the importance of savings. It is finally recognising the importance of savings. The Minister is now setting up a working party on savings, but I note that that working party has been told overnight\u2014and certainly the public has been told\u2014that there will be no Government contribution to any proposals for compulsory superannuation emerging from the working party. So having set up the working party, the Minister of Finance is now prescribing to that working party that it go away and look at the issue, then come back with a comprehensive report. Already, he is starting to ordain what the shape of that report should be, and is removing any prospect of there being any Government contributions to a compulsory savings regime. Well, we have to ask what the heck is the point. What the heck is the point of going into the establishment of a working-group to look at the very important issue of compulsory savings? It is the sort of scheme whereby through this bill we are allowing New Zealanders who have been resident in Australia to bring their savings back from Australia, in order to generate some investment in our economy, and to support and assist people who have lived in Australia but who have come back to New Zealand with their Australian-generated schemes. Why on earth is the Government saying now that we should not consider whether there will be any Government contribution to a compulsory savings regime? It is a daft idea, and it really fires a shotgun at those who have agreed to take part in that working party. I think it is very, very short-sighted thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe other issue I need to comment on is the fact that the Government has called this review on compulsory savings at a time when it has instigated two rounds of its own tax cuts in our economy, the most recent of which will take effect in October. It has done that without any consideration of whether it might have been appropriate, before it embarked on handing over tax cuts, to look at what the Australians did when they set up their compulsory savings regime. The Australians very cleverly constructed a deal where there was a forgoing of wage rises for a period of time by Australian workers. I believe there was also some consideration of tax cuts, but they decided to put their money into a savings regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EBut not this Government. This Government went to the polls promising a new wave of tax cuts and introduced a second wave to take effect from 1 October, and now it is scrambling around realising that it needs to have some form of savings to stop us becoming, as the Prime Minister puts it, tenants in our own land. We do need a savings regime, but he squandered the opportunity to consider whether some of the two rounds of tax cuts might well have been better directed to a savings regime, rather than giving them to people in a way that will obviously only add to inflationary pressures and will not contribute to anybody\u2019s savings regime. We need a balanced approach to this matter, and this Government has squandered two opportunities to consider whether some of those tax cuts might have been directed towards a compulsory savings regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EIt is typical of this Government. National wrecked the first contributory scheme that this country ever saw, which was established by the Kirk-Rowling Labour Government in 1972-75. Muldoon went to the polls and completely shafted that scheme, abolishing it by executive fiat, then had to put through amending legislation to enact what he had already announced. We then saw in the 1990 election campaign a \u201Cno ifs, buts, or maybes\u201D promise by the then National Party leader, Jim Bolger, in respect of the national superannuation surcharge, which he had to later back away from. Here we have another National Government coming into office and squandering the opportunity to have tax cuts considered as part of a savings regime, putting on hold New Zealand Superannuation Fund contributions, and axing 2 percent of the 4-percent contribution that employers were starting to make towards the KiwiSaver regime, which was the first thing we had done in respect of savings since Muldoon axed the Kirk-Rowling scheme in 1976. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThis bill is exempt from the Government\u2019s record on savings, as it introduces a very sensible measure to encourage New Zealanders to return from Australia by being able to bring their savings back. But what we are doing is relying upon the largesse of Australian tax authorities and employers to build savings for New Zealanders who live there. We are doing nothing towards the building of savings for New Zealanders. That is what we should be debating in this Chamber. What we have instead are proposals on income-splitting, an increase in GST with no relief for middle and lower income New Zealanders, and an attempt to have a working party review of superannuation. But on Morning Report this morning the Minister of Finance ruled out any Government contribution to a savings regime, which really pulls one leg away from the stool and makes it very much harder to get savings up and running. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThis bill is a sensible move in respect of bringing back savings that were made in Australia under a scheme that the Australians had the wisdom to set in place. We are going in the opposite direction. We have seen KiwiSaver cut, we have a freeze on the Superannuation Fund, which Michael Cullen established, and we are going backwards in terms of savings. Although it is a step forward in respect of savings generated by New Zealanders living in Australia, this bill is doing absolutely nothing towards the savings that New Zealanders need to be making so that we do not become tenants and peasants in our own land. We need a savings regime that encourages New Zealanders to invest and create the funds so that we do not need to go overseas, cap in hand, every time we need funds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc5b67e33fd149ed83e9a8082cbdcabc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc5b67e33fd149ed83e9a8082cbdcabc\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E This debate has, I think, become quite sensibly focused on issues of tax policy and savings policy. The Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill addresses both issues, so I think it is quite a good opportunity to have that debate on the issues surrounding this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EOften overlooked in the debate is the fact that Part 1 applies to annual rates. Clause 3 sets the annual rates for the 2010-11 tax year, and basically it implements the income tax cuts that the Government has introduced. These cuts involve borrowing to give tax cuts for upper income earners. Even when we look at the Government\u2019s Budget overall, in the net position of looking at all of the Government\u2019s tax changes put together, we see that the Government will still have to borrow about $1 billion over 4 years in order to fund its tax changes. But the cuts to income tax will cost considerably more than that, although they are balanced to some degree by the increase in GST and by some other smaller changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s tax strategy has been to cut taxes for those at the upper end of the income scale, and to borrow from future generations in order to fund those tax cuts. The Green Party thinks that borrowing in order to fund tax cuts for upper income earners is not a very clever economic strategy. The reason we think that it is not a very clever economic strategy is that it will increase inequality in our country, a country that already has major problems with inequality, and that it will add enormous levels of debt to future generations. By adding debt to future generations we are increasing the interest payments they will have to pay, so we are simply kidding ourselves to think that we can somehow give tax cuts to upper income earners\u2014in order to get votes, I guess, which is part of the Government\u2019s strategy\u2014and that future taxpayers can pay the bill. It seems to me that that is a fiscally irresponsible strategy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe Green Party does not support an increase in borrowing in order to pay for tax cuts for upper income earners, and I am very surprised that the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Revenue have taken us in the direction that is implemented through both this bill and the Budget legislation. I wonder why we are heading in that direction when, it seems to me, it is such a fiscally irresponsible approach for a country in which there has been high levels of private debt, and in which currently there is increasing public debt because we have had to borrow more heavily during the global financial crisis in order to fund the economic stimulus package. Yet we are now increasing levels of public debt to fund tax cuts for upper income earners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWe also know that in terms of a stimulus package, tax cuts for upper income earners are not a very good way to produce jobs or stimulate the economy. We know that if we deliver tax cuts to low income earners, they tend to spend most of the money because they simply cannot afford to save it, whereas, if we deliver tax cuts to upper income earners, they are able to save the money because that is the position they are in. Although that is fine for those people and makes perfect sense for them at an individual level, in terms of delivering a stimulus to the New Zealand economy it is extremely ineffective. Whether we read the papers of the OECD or of any other body, those papers will tell us that tax cuts, particularly tax cuts for upper income earners, are not a good way to deliver a stimulus package. When we realise that we are funding those tax cuts through increased public borrowing, it seems to me that the strategy is a tremendously irresponsible economic and fiscal strategy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EWhen the Minister of Revenue spoke previously, he criticised the Labour Party over the capital gains tax. The Green Party is on the record as being in support of a capital gains tax that excludes the family home. We think it is a very sensible strategy. It has been used overseas and would raise roughly $4.5 billion a year once it was in place; it would take a number of years to raise that much money. We think a capital gains tax that excludes the family home is both a very good revenue-raising measure and a very fair tax. It is a very progressive form of taxation, because it tends to fall mostly on those who have the most wealth and the higher incomes. It would also have some positive, beneficial effects in terms of trying to dampen demand for investment housing, which has been a big problem for New Zealand over the last decade. There has been a big increase in the price of housing, which has been driven in part by the treatment of tax. In response to the Minister of Revenue\u2019s comments on this issue, then, the Green Party thinks, yes, a capital gains tax excluding the family home is quite a good idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ELooking at the savings side of this legislation, the Green Party agrees that some of the changes for KiwiSaver are very positive, and we support them. We think that the trans-Tasman portability of savings is a positive move, and that some of the new rules about under-18-year-olds needing guardians\u2019 or parents\u2019 permission to enrol make sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EI think, though, that the debate we are having today on savings raises the broader issues about what we are doing with savings in New Zealand. This bill addresses those issues partially, but it is obviously a broader debate. We face two simultaneous problems when it comes to savings, one of which is the issue of the baby-boomers bubble coming through the system: how to afford the superannuation payments for those people from the public purse, and the ratio between those who are retired and those who are of working age. That is one significant challenge for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EThe other part of the challenge is national savings. The fact that as a nation we have been dissaving for so long has resulted in us running a very large current account deficit, and we have been funding the current account deficit through two mechanisms. On the one hand we have been borrowing large amounts of money, and on the other hand we have been selling off New Zealand - owned assets into overseas ownership. The effect of our poor level of savings over such a long time, and the fact that we have had to increase borrowing and sell off assets in order to cover the current account deficit, mean that only about 93 percent of GDP now stays in New Zealand. Back in the 1970s about 100 percent of GDP on a net basis stayed in New Zealand and was distributed to New Zealanders, in the form of profits, wages, or investment. Now the percentage is down to about 93 percent. We are losing about 7 percent of GDP every year, which is going to overseas owners, either through debt\u2014on money we have borrowed from overseas and on which we have to pay interest payments\u2014or through dividends and profits that get paid back to overseas owners because of overseas ownership of productive assets within New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003ESo our problem about savings has long-term implications for how wealthy and prosperous New Zealanders will be. If we are measuring GDP as a record of turnover, currently only 93 percent of that turnover stays in New Zealand, to be distributed as wages, profits, and investment. That is because we have had that savings problem. So the Green Party supports increasing savings in New Zealand, but we recognise there will have to be contributions from employees\u2014from individuals\u2014and there will have to be employer contributions and Government contributions. They all need to come together. Those three parts are the three necessary parts of the savings puzzle, so although this bill makes some positive changes to KiwiSaver, there are much bigger issues, particularly in light of the ongoing discussion on compulsion in superannuation. Those three components will have to be part of the solution if we are to improve our savings record using the KiwiSaver mechanism, but it was very disappointing to hear the Government opposed to any kind of increase in Government contributions, and it has also been disappointing to hear opposition from some employer groups about employer contributions, because that is an essential part of the package of savings if we are to extend the KiwiSaver system further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EOn this bill, and on savings issues more generally, the Greens have had a lot of concerns about the way the Government is taking advice on this kind of legislation. We have been concerned about the role of banks, and in particular of PricewaterhouseCoopers, which provides some of the key advice on tax and savings in New Zealand. PricewaterhouseCoopers was, of course, the key adviser to banks that avoided, unlawfully, $2 billion worth of tax. So we are concerned about the constant use of these kinds of advisers becoming involved in the debate around tax and savings, when they have had a track record of providing advice to banks about how to avoid tax. I really do recommend to the Government that it needs to go to someone else for advice rather than to continue going back to that particular source, because we all know the record of that source. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003EIn finishing, I say there are some good changes on savings; we support those. But we do not support the direction of the Government around income tax policy, and for that reason we will not be supporting the bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u0022909e3e07964642e7b70cabf106781cbd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022909e3e07964642e7b70cabf106781cbd\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill. As others have said, we are supporting this bill, and a number of very sensible changes are being proposed. I note that much of work was started under the previous Labour Government. We also have a Labour member\u2019s typescript amendment in the name of Stuart Nash, which I intend to come back to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe issue of improving trans-Tasman portability of retirement savings is a very important one given the movement of people between our two countries. Quite a significant amount of money is potentially being covered here, up to NZ$16 billion. We think that improvement is a positive thing, which potentially will assist individuals so that they are not stung by multiple fees for the administration of their retirement savings account. Obviously it will assist in something that both countries value, which is ensuring that people can save for their retirement and have an adequate standard of living in their retirement. So that is a very positive part of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to note the question of the relationship between Australia and New Zealand and movement between the two countries. That question has been raised, certainly when Labour was in Government, and we have been raising it quite strongly in recent times, given the increasing gap in wages between Australia and New Zealand. I know that others have tried to assert at various times, particularly when Labour was in Government, that the reason New Zealanders move to Australia is the difference in tax regimes\u2014well, for the record, that claim is obviously rubbish. The main reason is the differential in wages, which is around 30 percent and growing, as we know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThat is very worrying for us, and I note that the Government has no plan to address that particular problem. Its economic development strategies do not focus on the workplace or on lifting workers\u2019 skills. If we want to transform our economy and create the sort of high-wage, high-skill, highly productive workplaces that we need in order to be successful internationally, we really need to focus on lifting wages, lifting skills, and looking at how we organise and invest in our workplaces. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EBut let me come back to the matter at hand. We are supporting, again, some of the Supplementary Order Papers. It is interesting to note the fairly extensive transitional provisions that have had to be made to get the GST increase through without creating some very strange anomalies and unintended consequences. That is probably a consequence of the way the Government forced through GST increases under urgency in Budget 2010 without really considering some of the compliance costs and unforeseen consequences. I think that is a real shame. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EAccounting firm Ernst and Young stated last week: \u201CAs we face the harsh reality of the 1 October GST increase to 15 percent many are realising this is not a modest increase and the issues are actually more complex than anyone first imagined\u201D. One of the transitional arrangements relates to the fact that the changes were forced through without considering all the consequences, and now have to be tidied up in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EVery importantly for members on this side of the Chamber, GST increases will have a hugely detrimental effect on New Zealand families and business. Every day my colleagues and I have people talking to us about their concerns about the additional costs they will face with GST rising, the implications of that rise for inflation, and their recognition that the so-called compensation they will have is absolutely ludicrous. People do not buy it when members opposite say that their concerns have been taken account of by the paltry, for most New Zealanders, tax cuts or the small increases for beneficiaries that have been made. People are not silly. They are really struggling already, so they see that as a real issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThat is why I really want to speak in favour of the amendment put forward by my colleague Stuart Nash to exempt council rates from the increase in GST over the transition period. That is a very sensible provision, and I urge members opposite to consider it. Basically it will exempt this year\u2019s local government rates from the increase in GST to 15 percent. As I have noted, there are a number of transitional provisions in this legislation that look at exempting at 5-year finance leases, lay-by sales, and insurance contracts from the increased GST rate. The underlying reason for that is broadly similar to the reason that Stuart Nash has put forward his amendment on exempting council rates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003ELet us look at why we need to make the amendment. As I have already mentioned, the costs being faced by New Zealanders at the moment are enormous and people out there are struggling. The majority of wage earners and salary earners are seeing their wages and salaries lift by a massive zero percent. That is right; most people are not getting an increase in their income. Many people have lost hours of work, including overtime payments, and I know that if members opposite are honest, unless they are wandering around with their eyes closed and not talking to people, they know that to be a fact. Here in this amendment is a small thing that we can do to help relieve the pressure that families are facing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EMr Nash referred to budgeting services, and I will also put on record my acknowledgment of those people. They do a fantastic job against the odds in trying to help struggling New Zealand families. Recently I was at a meeting hosted by the M\u0101ngere Budgeting Services Trust. It was a packed meeting, with people from across Auckland present, and I think some of the things that were raised at that meeting are worthy of the Committee\u2019s interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe budgeting services people noted what had just happened, which was that 150 jobs were advertised at the New World store in Mount Roskill and 2,700 people had tried to get those jobs, showing that there was a huge issue with unemployment. They also talked about the fact that the average level of debt of those people approaching budgeting services was on the increase. They said they were seeing more and more people coming in with debt related to loan shark loans, with rates of interest of over 100 percent. We know that members opposite have failed to take the opportunity to address that particular issue. I acknowledge the Hon Peter Dunne, because he, in fact, did not take that position on my private member\u2019s bill. He supported the Credit Reforms (Responsible Lending) Bill, which would have made a difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe budgeting services people also told us that when people were looking for housing\u2014and, as we know, it is a very tight housing market in Auckland at the moment\u2014they were being pushed more and more into the private sector. Many gave examples of people paying upwards of 65 to 70 percent of their income to a private landlord. That does not leave much for food. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe thing that came through from all of the budgeting service people was that what was really being squeezed, the thing that households could control\u2014and the question is whether we think this is appropriate\u2014was the food that they put on the table for their children and themselves. People are trying to live on ridiculously small amounts of money, and they are not eating properly. They are really struggling, and there has been a massive increase in food grants. I think it is worth noting some of those concerns raised by budgeting services in that very recent meeting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EComing back to the amendment, I say that it will help. It will help people who are paying their rates, by creating a situation where they do not have to pay the higher rate of GST on their rates for this year\u2014that is, the rates bill from 1 July 2010. Again, I urge members opposite to support that change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI will also take this opportunity to talk about KiwiSaver. I acknowledge that we have Supplementary Order Paper 158, which I understand is now in the name of Mr Garrett. I assume that he is replacing Mr Boscawen, our new Minister of Consumer Affairs, in moving that amendment. We support that Supplementary Order Paper. We think it is logical. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI note that it is extremely difficult for wage earners and salary earners to save at the moment, for the very reasons I have outlined. It is very difficult for people to make ends meet. They are facing higher costs across the board, so that is a problem. None the less, the bill is a good move. Having a workers\u2019 superannuation scheme has given Australia a real advantage over this country. A massive amount of capital has been built up in Australia as a consequence of having decent workers\u2019 superannuation. Effectively it is a virtuous cycle, because workers are saving, so they get a good outcome in their retirement, and the economy has access to capital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022f86923c58485401da68edf309b30f327\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f86923c58485401da68edf309b30f327\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E It is very interesting to note that Carol Beaumont, the previous speaker, is advocating asset testing for superannuation, which is what they do in Australia. So when members opposite get up and speak about the Australian superannuation scheme, at the end of the sentence should be \u201Cand asset testing of the recipients\u201D. It is fair enough to have the debate, but they have to give the full sentence in order to give the correct context, rather than just give blank numbers of contribution rates of 2 percent for KiwiSaver and of 9 percent for the scheme over there. Asset testing for superannuation is on the agenda of the Labour Party, unless another Labour member denies that, just as a capital gains tax is on the agenda, unless another Labour member denies that. It would have to withdraw some of the videos out there from its various spokesmen, and various press releases. What else is on the agenda? Oh yes, a land tax is on the agenda of the Labour Party at the next election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EWhat is not on the agenda of the Labour Party at the next election, apparently, is axing the tax. Labour members are voting for the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial matters) Bill. They sent a bus around the country opposing a tax switch on GST\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294a7f4240d6a4c818c37d56f1b855d75\u0022\u003EAaron Gilmore\u003C/span\u003E: Paid for by the taxpayer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221576a41ef2f24045b870088b4494eeee\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yes\u2014but, actually, they would not reverse it, going by the way they are talking, and they are voting for this bill. Members on the other side should focus a wee bit. Let us get on with things that matter, because those members would not actually axe the tax\u2014at least, that is the latest version, but who knows?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EMembers opposite also talk about economic literacy. Well, there is no better example of the need for national standards of numeracy and literacy than a pamphlet Labour put out about GST recently. It talks about \u201CNational\u2019s 15 percent GST\u201D, somewhat misleadingly, conveniently, and dishonestly\u2014am I allowed to say that\u2014while ignoring the fact that GST went from zero percent to 10 percent under a Labour regime, and went from 10 percent to 12.5 percent in 1989, with 8 weeks\u2019 notice and preparation, under a Labour regime, without any compensation whatsoever. That is in total contrast to what we have coming in on 1 October, which is a change in GST from 12.5 percent to 15 percent, and a huge reduction in income tax, one of the biggest changes in income tax and other taxation rates in 25 years, which will produce a $3.5 billion to $4 billion boost to our economy over the year. That is what is coming in on 1 October. Again, when members opposite talk about GST changing and all the damage that may occur, they need to finish the sentence by saying that it is accompanied by a switch from income tax to consumption tax. It surprises me that the Green Party is voting against an increase in consumption tax, when we line it up with all its other rhetoric.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI will come to the bill in one moment, because there are some interesting clauses in it, but I ask why people are struggling after so many years under a Labour Government. Yes, there is a recession going on. Hopefully, it has bottomed out. Hopefully, we are coming out of it. But in 9 years of a Labour Government, real wages in New Zealand increased by only 3 percent. Over 9 years they increased by only 3 percent. People who are going to Labour members\u2019 offices and to our offices to tell us that they are struggling are quite right, because under the 9 years of the Labour regime the affordability of living increased by only 3 percent, and that was in the best economic opportunities and conditions that this country had seen in many a generation. Labour blew it. What it did was almost criminal. When Labour members have a go at us for trying to slow it down, trying to fix it up, I say that thus far, after 20-odd months of the National Government, real wages have increased by 8.7 percent\u20148.7 percent after only 2 years. That is a response to some of the somewhat silly allegations from members on the other side of the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EA married couple on superannuation is about $120 better off after the 2 years or so of this Government, because of changes to after-tax wages, an increase in average wages, and lower inflation and interest rates. Also, the changes on 1 October will be indexed. At the same time that GST changes, superannuitants will be paid up front. Normally, that occurs a year or 6 months later in this case. All distribution that can be indexed will be indexed. If only members opposite would finish their sentences and get off their high horse. The contradiction is that they say all this stuff but they are voting for the bill. They are actually voting for the bill. A reduction in the number of speeches from members opposite would be a nice wee contribution towards eliminating global warming; I wait with bated breath.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EA couple of speakers from the other side have been talking about budgeting advice. That is a very good point, and it is quite correct. Budget advisers around the country are seeing quite a few more people who are trying to balance their affairs. As I said earlier, the affordability of living has improved somewhat over the last 2 years, but after 9 years of only 3 percent growth in real wages, people are struggling. When they go to a budget adviser, what does the budget adviser do? The budget adviser looks at both sides of the ledger, at how much money is coming in and how much money is going out, at what they cannot afford, what they would like to afford, and what they need. The budget adviser looks at basic necessities. Imagine Dr Cullen or Mr Cunliffe going along to a budget adviser. What would the adviser say? He or she would tell them to stop all these silly promises and commitments that mean they end up borrowing money; to manage the money coming in, try to distribute the income a bit more, and try not be at the risk of recessions, if they can; and to try to grow the real part of their wages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235093a3c28654349963978e1284ae62a\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t borrow for a tax cut. And suspend your super savings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1dfa7f048d9469097e3f14646c34832\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CAnd suspend your super savings\u201D\u2014from a somewhat economically illiterate person over there. Here is a point: the New Zealand Superannuation Fund manages about $15 billion or $16 billion. It manages that, and it will return about 4 percent or 4.25 percent this year. The Crown is borrowing about $15 billion at 6 percent interest this year to keep the lights on. [Interruption] No, the tax cuts are fiscally neutral. Again, I am more than happy to lend some quite basic textbooks with nice diagrams\u2014perhaps in comic form\u2014to some of the members opposite so that they can understand what is going on. The real side of the New Zealand economy is having a boost, after the real side of the economy being in recession for 5 years, with no real growth and hardly any real growth in wages. Actually, the tax switching and some of the other changes in this allegedly non-controversial bill are all part of setting that platform\u2014for example, the changes in the branch equivalent tax account regime, the controlled foreign company changes, KiwiSaver transportability, and the transportability of the Aussie scheme to New Zealand. It is all good stuff, and was done in anticipation of New Zealanders coming home as a result of the election of the National Government in 2008 and, perhaps, in 2011\u2014we will see how that goes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the Finance and Expenditure Committee. The process around this bill at the select committee was quite admirable. I acknowledge that. Generally, there was consensus across the committee. We made some changes to the bill that originally came into the House. I acknowledge the members of all parties, I acknowledge the officials, and I acknowledge the independent advisers. I look forward to the continued debate, which will perhaps be somewhat more formed as we go through the clauses in the bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022ede5501aeb9d42309f56475e8c8ad56a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ede5501aeb9d42309f56475e8c8ad56a\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora an\u014D t\u0101tou. Naturally, we support the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill, and it follows that it could do with a few improvements, not the least of which lie with the very thoughtful contribution offered by my colleague Mr Stuart Nash. Up and down the country, people on fixed incomes are facing pressures. Those pressures will definitely rise over the next 6 to 8 weeks. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EMr Foss is right in one respect: the gales of rhetoric across the Chamber will go on, but what will not go on is the ignorance about what the Government\u2019s agenda is in relation to fiscal policy. Never mind what we say in the House, come October, the changes and the cost rises will begin to bite. They will affect people\u2019s pockets and they will affect their perceptions as to why the Government decided to shift the base of its tax revenue to consumption, whilst at the same time borrowing from the international capital markets to fund tax cuts. That cannot be explained away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIt is unfortunate that the spirit of companionship that my colleagues on the Finance and Expenditure Committee showed to Mr Foss and his confr\u00E8res has not carried over to the savings debate in the Committee. The Savings Working Group is required to report back by 20 December. It will cover, or obfuscate, the gaping hole in the Government\u2019s thinking. The Government has now outsourced to the Assistant Governor of the Reserve Bank, Dr McDermott, and a host of other identities from the commercial world, the responsibility to find the answers that the Government can take forward and use to plug the gap. Although the Government is now running the rhetoric\u2014of which this bill is a small part\u2014that the problem is capital accumulation in the New Zealand economy, it has found itself unwilling to derive, or incapable of deriving, ideas from amongst it own ranks, or it has probably found that there is already within Treasury a belief that there is no savings crisis. The small changes in this bill were largely Labour policies anyhow. They are just a small set of minuscule changes grafted on to the architecture that the Government inherited, in terms of savings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EBut there is a deeper point at stake. That point is that if the Government shares the view that the problem with the economy is capital accumulation, then why has it made retrograde decisions over the last 18 months to disincentivise people to save, and, also, to undermine New Zealand\u2019s domestic sovereign fund? Those two decisions show that the Government acted in a panic-stricken state and has never had a strategy to deal with savings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI accept that a number of the identities in this task force have a positive contribution to make, but it will be a contribution that they will be required to make within the pipeline of the Government looking for ideas to take to the next set of elections. It is a tragedy that taxpayers\u2019 funds are being used to subsidise this crowd and its absence of intellectual rigour or original thought as to how New Zealand should deal with that deficiency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI will come back very briefly to the suggestion that we ought to offer relief in relation to the application of GST on rates. Gordon Copeland, a colleague of the current Minister in the chair, the Minister of Revenue, warbled on about this at length, which probably meant that the idea was never going to go anywhere. However, having said that, he had that suggestion and a host of other ideas. Given the obvious skill base and a host of other very positive attributes represented in my colleague Mr Nash, who is bringing the idea forward, the idea has obviously come on time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIt is disappointing that, quite apart from the refinement changes, the Government is not addressing some of the deeper challenges, and I daresay it is incapable of doing so. It seems as if it is gripped by a whole set of systemic problems and is unwilling to move on from the mantra of the 1990s, and, at the same time, is unwilling to embrace a new paradigm or a new set of ideas to move New Zealand on to its next phase. Quite frankly, if we strip away the refinement changes and Mr Dunne\u2019s contributions, etc., we find that, deep down, the architecture of this bill does not significantly differ\u2014other than the tinkerings of the current Government\u2014from what Dr Cullen sought to do in 2000 and 2001, and it does not bring forward an original contribution to arrest the decline of savings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIf we seek to achieve the things that Mr Brownlee and others tend to talk about from time to time\u2014such as boosting the productivity, etc., of New Zealand firms\u2014we will find that that cannot come unless we have access to capital. Unlike the Prime Minister, members on this side of the House have grown quite tired and quite apprehensive about the flood of international capital\u2014which is about to be shepherded through, no doubt, by the current Government\u2014and the Government\u2019s unwillingness to stop the sale of farmland to overseas interests. That, no doubt, will be an item that we will fight vigorously at the next election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWe are no longer in the camp where we can see a worsening current account deficit and the laissez-faire attitude of the current Government that it does not mind where capital comes from. We actually want to husband sources of capital in our own country, and we want to build reservoirs that give meaning to people when they say that they actually want to feel they have an ownership stake in their own economy, in their own communities, and, indeed, in overall society. That is why, broadly speaking, Labour is supportive of the refinement changes in this bill, but we are not supportive of the other agenda, which is to meander forward without a clear sense of direction, in the absence of any compass that gives confidence to the next generation, to the mokopuna\u2014our grandchildren. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWhen we listen to David Carter, it is almost as if he contemplates a future where our country is one large farm, and the Prime Minister contemplates a future where our country is one large hotel. Well, that is not our view. We believe that in order to grow our wealth we need to deepen and broaden the diversity of the goods and services that we create. We cannot drive without a decent reservoir of savings capital that can be deployed to suit the agenda of New Zealanders, rather than the agenda of nameless, faceless international fund managers who do not care at all for the national interest of Aotearoa New Zealand. Their agenda, quite rightly from their perspective, is to find opportunities, exploit them, and grow the wealth of the funds that they hold. But if anyone tells me that we should embrace indiscriminately the portfolio theory of investment, I will tell them to look at the actual record of many of those portfolio theorists over the last 5 years, as we have watched international wealth and capital melt. That is why there is a key distinction here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI am sure that there is a desire amongst a host of our colleagues on the other side of the House to advance the savings debate, but we differ. Our desire is to ensure that the savings are not all sent overseas but deployed to develop our own country and to develop endowments that create value. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIt is time that the current Government stopped trying to cadge the ideas of Dr Cullen and actually put forward a debatable point as to what its vision is. Labour\u2019s vision is to continue to husband savings, but to have them disproportionately deployed on issues at home, and to create enterprises that actually build new firms and create more jobs. None of that has actually happened to date, and that is a consequence of the current Government\u2019s approach to economic growth and fiscal policy, which is driven largely by panic-stricken reaction, to the point that not even the business or the corporate community knows any longer what the Government stands for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, in relation to the savings debate\u2014and, of course, KiwiSaver is only one element of the savings debate, but it is the most innovative\u2014there will be no ambiguity and no vagueness as to where we stand. We support the bill, but there is much unfinished business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022c042be71203c4ed095c2c6f916f97224\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c042be71203c4ed095c2c6f916f97224\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I have great pleasure in taking a call on this bill. I have come into the Chamber and been astounded, really, that we have the bill here, supported by the National Government. In fact, it is National\u2019s bill. There is some sweet irony here, I guess. I have written a new title for the bill, and it is the \u201CSave Bill\u2019s Butt Bill\u201D, because Bill English and the National Government in their first Budget slashed savings and any attempt to have savings in this country. Now we have a bill that quite rightly\u2014and Labour will support it\u2014facilitates superannuation payments made in Australia being brought back into this country. The Government now realises that there is value in having superannuation funds available to invest in this country, to develop it. Well, it is a bit late, I say to Bill English, the Minister of Finance, because he\u2014and Gerry Brownlee and John Carter, his fellow Ministers\u2014have been asleep. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIn fact, I heard a question from Mr Brownlee before: \u201CWhat did Labour do?\u201D. Well, we set up Kiwibank. We set up KiwiSaver. We set up a superannuation fund. That is what we did to develop higher levels of savings in this country. As the previous speaker said, we understand the value of investing in ourselves and utilising savings made by us. The Australians\u2014although we might criticise them, and their rugby and their netball, from time to time\u2014have been so smart for so long. Eight percent of their income is invested in superannuation. That is smart. Now Bill English\u2014the same Minister who destroyed our attempts to get savings up and running in this country, destroyed Labour\u2019s initiatives, parked up the contributions to the superannuation fund and to KiwiSaver, and undermined the superannuation fund\u2014realises that if we are not doing it ourselves, maybe we should get access to the $16 billion that has been accumulated in Australia by New Zealanders through a compulsory scheme that says that 8 percent of one\u2019s salary should go into superannuation. That is smart. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ELabour started out with a rate of 4 percent, and was moving in that direction. In fact the ACT Party now, through its Supplementary Order Paper, is saying that people should be able to contribute more. The ACT Party, with all its ignorance on most issues, I have to say, now realises that superannuation is very smart. Thank God ACT members have learnt something in this House over these years! The National Party has, too. Rather than continue with the savings initiatives put in place by the Labour Government, the National Government slashed that, gutted it, undermined it in its first Budget, and now, to make up for that, says it wants some of that Aussie money\u2014that it wants to get its hands on that $16 billion. So we have the \u201CSave Bill\u2019s Butt Bill\u201D so that Bill English can stand up in a year\u2019s time and say that savings are up and running and we have an inflow of money into the country, so we can look at investing in ourselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ENoises have been coming from National on that issue just recently. National members are saying that we should start thinking about our savings, because they have not been quite good enough and that we cannot invest and control our own destiny. I say \u201CWake up!\u201D to Mr Brownlee and Mr Carter. That truth has been there for a long time, and the Labour Government moved on it. We moved on it through the superannuation fund. We moved on it through KiwiSaver, and National slashed and gutted those two key initiatives. Now they are talking about reinventing something, and they are saying, through this bill, that the money accumulated in Australia, the $16 billion, should be able to come back to New Zealand. That is great. It is smart. It is exactly why the Labour Opposition is supporting the bill, but it is a bit sad to know that the same Ministers who gutted our savings regime are now attempting, in a piecemeal way, to get a savings task force, or think tank, or chat room back up and running. Well, if they had just taken a little bit of advice from the previous Labour Government and continued on with our commitment to superannuation and KiwiSaver, we would all be a lot better off and we would not have to rely on the $16 billion that this bill will help bring back into the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002248cb9cfccf0b49508eb64e8b7c81c286\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248cb9cfccf0b49508eb64e8b7c81c286\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, I will respond to Gerry Brownlee\u2019s interjection during Shane Jones\u2019 contribution. Mr Brownlee asked what Labour did for New Zealand investment and New Zealand ownership. Well, it is a very long list, I say to Mr Brownlee, and I am sad that Mr Brownlee, as the Minister for Economic Development, does not realise that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhat did Labour do? Well, we set up the Cullen fund so that in a time of Government surpluses, the Government saved towards future retirement costs. We did that against the opposition of the National Party. National, at every Budget, called for what were patently unaffordable tax cuts, which would have meant that we were not running a surplus in a time of plenty, and that New Zealand would now be in the same position as Portugal, Spain, and Great Britain. We would not have been as badly off as Greece, but we would have been on the road to having the problem Greece has with rising Government debt, because we would not have put away money in a time of plenty. That is the first and probably the most important thing we did. We ran Budget surpluses consistently, and we had tax cuts only when the economy was going into recession, so that they were countercyclical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe second thing we did was recapitalise Air New Zealand. We made sure that Air New Zealand was maintained in the ownership of New Zealand. Who opposed that? Does anyone remember?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eefdce49dcca47fe8e10da0a2d08e3c3\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: National.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224109885186764a8f8abdf7d3108c9e13\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is right\u2014National opposed that. What else did we do? With the leadership of Jim Anderton we set up Kiwibank. Jim Anderton actually deserves more credit for that than Labour does, but we supported his doing it. Kiwibank has been an outstanding success. What else did we do? Someone yelled out \u201CKiwiRail\u201D. That is quite right. We made sure that the monopoly rail infrastructure was in New Zealand ownership, and that was the right thing to do. What else did we do, against the criticism of the National Party? We maintained Auckland Airport in New Zealand ownership when the National Party said it should be flogged off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhat else did we do? We set up KiwiSaver. What has National done? Well, if we look back a bit we see that it cancelled the Kirk savings scheme. I give credit to Sir Roger Douglas, because for decades he has consistently supported improved savings in New Zealand. He was the designer of the Kirk scheme. It was National that reversed that scheme. As Brian Gaynor recently said in the New Zealand Herald, if that scheme had been left to mature, the New Zealand capital markets would be $300 billion deeper than they currently are, and we would probably be in even a better position than the Australians are. They are plainly better off than New Zealanders because of their deeper capital markets. National also scuppered the Peters superannuation savings plans, which were backed by ACT, in the late 1990s. National has undermined KiwiSaver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENational is not running Budget surpluses; it is running excessively large Government deficits to pay for its ridiculously extensive and unaffordable income tax cuts, 35 percent of which go to the top 5 percent of income earners, I think\u2014the people who already earn the most in New Zealand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215a8ca85172547969a884cd4b67113e9\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022207b17cda3a74587ac8fc4f0df98bd78\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is patently not fair. It is one of the reasons why New Zealand\u2019s Government deficit is so large.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAgainst that background, what economic plan did we have from the Government in February this year, in its February document? At that stage it was still promising a step change in the New Zealand economy. It was focusing on extensions to mining, it talked about the possibility of New Zealand being a financial services hub, but it did not talk about savings. It did not talk about savings. What happened in August this year, in the Government\u2019s latest plan? There was still no talk about savings on 1 August this year, despite that being the standout difference between the New Zealand economy and the Australian economy. The 1 August plan stopped talking about any step change in the New Zealand economy; the Government has given up on that ambition. It will not make any promise for which it can be held accountable between now and 2025 for bridging the wage gap with Australia, notwithstanding the fact that that was National\u2019s central election promise at the last election. The 2025 date is a long way out, and the gap is growing wider. The Government has been widely criticised in the media for trying to spin the numbers to pretend that the gap is narrowing when it is, in fact, widening. But still there was no talk on 1 August in respect of savings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow we have a committee. Now we have a committee that is to report at the end of the year. It is due to report at the end of the year on what is probably the most serious challenge facing New Zealand\u2014that is, the contribution of our invisibles to our current account deficit. It is caused by New Zealanders consuming too much and not saving enough. It is a problem that has bedevilled New Zealand for decades and is bad now. So the Government set up a committee. I thought that as the Government it was meant to lead. I thought that after 9 years in Opposition National would have some idea as to what it wanted to do. After close to 2 years and two Budgets, it has come along to Parliament and conceded that the Labour Party is right and that it needs to improve New Zealand\u2019s savings. That is essentially its message at the moment. It is not yet admitting it was wrong to undermine KiwiSaver; it is not yet admitting it was wrong to run Government deficits to pay for income tax cuts, 35 percent of which go to the top 5 percent of earners; it is not yet admitting that it is wrong to stop contributions to the Cullen fund; and it is not yet admitting that it has got the tax mix wrong. But it has set up a committee to give it advice on all of those issues, because it does admit that New Zealand is not saving enough. After two Budgets and 2 years, it admits we have a problem with, as Shane Jones says, capital accumulation. It admits New Zealand has a problem in our failure to properly save, but it does not know what to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThat is an indictment upon a Government in respect of a country that has growing unemployment, a growing wage gap with Australia, and broader and broader realisation amongst New Zealanders that the problem\u2014or a major part of the problem\u2014is our lack of savings. It is an indictment that the Government has taken 2 years to get to that position, after it had 9 years in Opposition\u20149 years in Opposition. It ought to have realised before now that the major difference between New Zealand and Australia is not mining schedule 4 land and land in national parks, but New Zealand\u2019s relative lack of savings compared with Australia\u2019s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe Government has squandered the last 2 years. By December this year, it says, it will have some recommendations. Well, by that time we will be in the last year before the election. The election has to be held by November next year, and there are rumours that the Government will hold the election before the Rugby World Cup, in July or August next year, so effectively it will have wasted a whole term in office in respect of the single most important economic issue facing the country, which is our relative paucity of savings. The fact is that every year we get poorer. More and more of our country is sold off overseas because we are running a current account deficit so much of which now relates to invisibles\u2014the interest and dividend flows that are paid to overseas investors in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe Government has not taken any steps in respect of savings except negative ones. The list of the negative steps the Government has taken is long: stopping the contributions to the Cullen fund, undermining KiwiSaver, and, of course, the tax cuts, which are too much weighted to those already on high incomes\u201435 percent going to the top 5 percent of income earners. We have a Government deficit of many more billions of dollars every year than would have been necessary had National\u2019s tax package been more responsible and more equitable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIt is lamentable that after inheriting one of the strongest Government balance sheets in the world from the prior Government, this Government has both squandered what it inherited and gone backwards on what is the most important difference between New Zealand and Australia\u2014that is, savings. The Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial matters) Bill, which we are currently considering, ought to have provisions that strengthen KiwiSaver; it ought not to be limited to measures that ease the trans-Tasman transferral of KiwiSaver and Australian superannuation savings balances. That is a good thing to do, but it misses the bigger point that New Zealand is short of savings. The Government is transparently without any adequate plan in this area. It has been exposed for its inadequacy on this front, once again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022 data-id=\u0022bec684e089de4be7bec9e64e3a0bce9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bec684e089de4be7bec9e64e3a0bce9d\u0022\u003EAARON GILMORE (National):\u003C/span\u003E One would think that David Parker was a Luddite in a time warp, given the speech we have just heard. The bill we are talking about today is the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill. The bill is not about anything that that member was talking about; it is about tidying up and improving our savings environment in terms of bringing home hard-earned savings from those Kiwis who want to come back to New Zealand from Australia\u2014and thousands have done so since the election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EI want to talk about a couple of things: in particular, two Supplementary Order Papers that have been put forward, and the crazy amendment put forward by the member over there, Mr Nash. In particular, I will talk about the Supplementary Order Paper that has not been discussed earlier, which has some nice tidy-ups around imputation credit accounts. That Supplementary Order Paper, which has not been discussed here, will allow the finance company restructuring that is occurring as we speak to occur in a better, more efficient way to allow those imputation credits that are retained in a finance company to go with that group as that finance company restructuring occurs. They are good things that occur. They are some of the little steps that help our economy move and grow a bit faster. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EMr Nash\u2019s amendment is window dressing that puts in place an arrangement whereby, for little overall gain to ratepayers, there could be a one-off putting aside of GST. I will give an example. The average ratepayer in somewhere like Napier probably pays about $1,000 in rates. So Mr Nash is talking about a $25 one-off gain to a ratepayer. Our tax cuts and changes will bring $25 per week to the average household\u2014$25 per week. We have heard from members on that side of the Chamber that 75 percent of people earn less than $40,000. Well, I can tell members that in my household 75 percent of people earn less than $40,000, because I am the only worker in my household. I have two children and I have a mother at home who looks after the children. Is that outrageous? No, it is not. Those are the numbers those members use\u2014they use selective numbers\u2014to tell a story that is absolute rubbish, and they know it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EThe real truth is that real after-tax wages\u2014the wages in people\u2019s back pockets\u2014have been going up under National. After 9 years under Labour what did wages do? They went up by 3 percent\u20143 percent in 9 years. It is ridiculous. What was going on there? And what were those members saying at that stage? Nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EThis bill puts in place nice, little changes that help our economy grow a bit faster. It allows savers to bring cash into New Zealand to invest in things that make sense. The bill does not invest billions of dollars in train sets, which was an absolute disaster and made some investor in Australia richer. This bill allows Kiwis to bring home their own money and invest it more wisely in ways they see fit. That is a wonderful step in the right direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EWe have heard Labour members talk about many savings-related issues that are not relevant to this bill. This bill is about tidying up GST and the tax system to improve savings in New Zealand and to improve our economic growth. It is not about what those members talk about, which is absolutely irrelevant. I wish they would talk a bit more about what this bill does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EPeter Dunne, the Minister of Revenue, has done a good job of bringing forward these Supplementary Order Papers and putting in place some changes that make the bill work more efficiently. I think that is a good thing. There was some wonderful work by the officials, who listened to what people said and realised what was actually going on. Members on the other side of the Chamber do not want to argue, because they do not have any answer to it\u2014and I find that outrageous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EThis bill allows for great improvement, economic growth, and changes. The bill allows New Zealanders to save a little bit more of the money that they have earned overseas, so that when they get out of the 747s and are home in New Zealand\u2014like the thousands of Kiwis who have already done so, and like the many members of my family who have done so\u2014they do so because they want to live in New Zealand under a John Key - led National Government. The bill allows them to bring home their superannuation savings from Australia and invest them in New Zealand. That has to be a wonderful thing. Thanks very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00226f23e83f9e8c4c00ae8180819fa04262\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f23e83f9e8c4c00ae8180819fa04262\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E That rave by the member Aaron Gilmore shows just how out of touch this Government is. He treats with contempt the ratepayer who will have to pay on average maybe $30 or $100 a year more for the three-quarters of a year Supplementary Order Paper 157 covers. He treats that person with contempt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThis reminds me of a letter that was sent to me yesterday that had been sent to the Prime Minister. It was from a businessman. He said that this Government just does not understand what the impact of the increased prices it is imposing on businesses will be. He said that he will be paying more GST on everything, including his food. He will be paying more for his rent because of the changes in property taxes. His business will be paying more in road-user charges, GST, accident compensation, and the rest of it. He said to Mr Key that he had been a National voter but he would be changing his vote next time, because Mr Key has put his business out of business and has imposed more taxes on people that he promised he would never impose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI say to Mr Gilmore that the small gesture in the Nash amendment, which brings rates into line with other things like 5-year finance leases, is a way that we can give a little relief to hard-pressed New Zealanders, and by God they need it! Half of all New Zealanders did not get a wage rise last year\u2014half of all New Zealanders did not get a wage rise last year. The fat cats on the other side of the Chamber did. They got big tax cuts. The tax cut for the average New Zealander is about $13 a week, while the costs imposed by this Government\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206d7ed9147c5401281dd31d11f2b64c7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member, but members who are not in their own seats should not be barraging in the way that they are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224330337834494cee9bf3a8badabf9822\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Those members should stop shouting, stop showing their arrogance, and listen to what their constituents are actually telling them. Their constituents are telling them that at a time when people have not been getting wage increases, the rise in GST is the straw that will break the camel\u2019s back. It will break their backs on top of things like the fact that most renters in Auckland are paying $20 a week extra before increases to property taxes are brought in. Most people who have children in early childhood education will be paying $20 to $30 a week more for each child. It is no wonder that the early childhood centre that John Key opened last year in M\u0101ngere\u2014a low-income area\u2014has sent a letter to the Government saying that it will have to charge $20 to $30 a week more for early childhood education, but that the parents simply cannot afford it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EMr Gilmore arrogantly says that it is a small amount of money. We know that it is a small amount of money to Mr Gilmore and the Minister of Finance, but then the Minister of Finance gave himself $48,000 a year to rent his own home\u2014$48,000 a year to rent his own home. This is the Minister of Finance who tells us that New Zealanders should not worry about the increased costs that this Government is imposing on them daily. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EThe rate of GST will be 15 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225afc23a92b3e4e25862a362f628ed21e\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us about the 3 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022848b49fc75cd4aa5a5d5369a81339a8a\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Does Mr Foss know what that rate makes consumption taxes in New Zealand? It makes New Zealand the fourth highest country in the world in terms of consumption taxes that a Government imposes on its people\u2014the fourth highest in the world. What do we know about consumption taxes? We know that they fall heaviest on low and middle income earners. They will be paying a higher proportion of their income in consumption taxes, while the income tax cuts to Mr Foss and Mr Brownlee will be in the hundreds of dollars\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022995cf8da766b472b9bebc87287c1fcaa\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt the member. Mr Foss, you will either desist or sit in your own seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac2ff4db075748078e820990f9632b41\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Chair. Mr Foss and Mr Brownlee do not understand that when one is on a high income one gets big income tax cuts, whereas the families that Labour talks about, whom Stuart Nash is trying to help, are ordinary New Zealanders who are finding that the cost of living is going up at a far faster rate than their wages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003EI ask Mr Brownlee what the Budget tells us. It tells us that the rate of inflation will be 5.9 percent by the end of this year. Well, more than half of all New Zealanders did not get a wage increase last year. The National Government can spin all it likes, but the fact of the matter is that New Zealanders will know when they go through the supermarket checkout, and they will know even more in 37 days\u2019 time, that they have less in their pockets, and not more, as the Prime Minister told them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022a29f81b6dfa84c48b51f3e8c29e4c162\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a29f81b6dfa84c48b51f3e8c29e4c162\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E As I listened to that speech I was reminded of a comment that Winston Churchill once made about Aneurin Bevan in the House of Commons. He said to him: \u201COne member should not develop more indignation than he can contain.\u201D What we saw from the Leader of the Opposition was extraordinary huff and puff about the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill. The only problem with his comments was that they were at direct variance with everything his colleagues had been saying in this Chamber for the last hour and a half. If one had just come into the debate or switched on one\u2019s television or radio, one would assume from the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s comments that Labour would vote against this bill. But every single one of its speakers to date has been at pains to point out his or her support for the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe attitude of the Leader of the Opposition seems totally at variance with his colleagues. But there were some great gems during his remarks. He objected to forthcoming property taxes that the Government is allegedly about to levy. Well, what we are doing is removing the capacity for people to depreciate property under certain circumstances. But we are not doing what every Labour speaker has failed to deny this morning is in their intent, and that is bring in a capital gains tax and a land tax to punish investors. We heard the Leader of the Opposition say that there is some dastardly plan afoot on the Government\u2019s side to bring in a property tax, although his colleagues are standing here this morning, one after the other, criticising the Government for having ruled out a land tax and a capital gains tax. He is simply out of touch with the reality of his own side, let alone the attitude of the rest of New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe Leader of the Opposition then complained about the fact that our GST is allegedly the fourth-highest consumption tax in the world. But we heard nothing in his speech, and no amendment has been moved by his party, to date, to give effect to one of the other great policies\u2014taking GST off fresh fruit and vegetables, which he has been touting of late. If this is the fourth-highest consumption tax in the world, and if people are suffering to the extent that he claims, then I thought he would have moved his pet amendment today so that the Committee would have had a chance to consider it\u2014but absolutely not. In fact, the professions of support from his colleagues for this legislation continue unabated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe Leader of the Opposition cannot have it two ways. He cannot come down here and make a strong and vigorous speech opposing the legislation while his colleagues on the Opposition benches continue to get up, one after the other, and profess their support for it and for the Government\u2019s amendments as being user-friendly and just what is needed to make the measure work more effectively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EOne can only draw some internal conclusions about the state of the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s party from those remarks. One can also say that they make no contribution whatsoever to the quality of this debate. They make no contribution to the issues that are being put before the Committee today. These measures, which have been worked through by the GST Advisory Panel, and are in response to submissions received from the general public, are positive and beneficial, and it is no wonder that they are supported by the Labour members opposite. It is just a great pity that none of the Labour members over there have sought to inform their leader of the position that their party is taking. As a consequence, the Leader of the Opposition comes in here, stands exposed\u2014wrong speech, wrong occasion\u2014and the reality is that his colleagues will continue to support this bill. His colleagues will continue, as they have all said during the number of calls they have had to date, to profess their support for the bill\u2019s provisions. Maybe someone should tell the Leader of the Opposition where his party stands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcef21a004c04551a7682e6e8c9328ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcef21a004c04551a7682e6e8c9328ed\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I wonder which Chamber the honourable Minister, Peter Dunne, was sitting in during the excellent speech made by the Leader of the Opposition. It clearly was not this one. The Leader of the Opposition said, as members on this side have consistently said, that although Labour will support this bill because hardworking New Zealanders need some relief from the tremendous shambles of the introduction of this tax, we will put forward an amendment that will give ratepayers temporary relief and ease the burden this year on ordinary New Zealanders from the oppressive increase to this tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders up and down the country know that National is so out of touch. Aaron Gilmore said in the previous speech but one that the amounts were very small\u2014so why would the peasants and the serfs notice? Because they cannot put food on their tables, I say to Mr Gilmore. Our constituents are crowded into houses\u2014two and three families are crowded into a house\u2014and that is why $20 of GST a week makes a hell of a difference. If Mr Gilmore had to choose between taking his children to the doctor and putting food on the table, paying $20, $30, or $40 a week more in GST would not seem like a small amount. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThat is why Labour is bringing relief in respect of the cost of living with our Supplementary Order Paper, which was put forward by Mr Nash. It will ease the adjustment for ratepayers, and it is a step that will be welcomed by all New Zealanders. In contrast, the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Revenue, has had, in desperation, to bring to this Chamber 28 pages of tidy-up Supplementary Order Papers, which are focused on all of those little things that went wrong in the drafting of the main bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIt is extremely complex to change GST midway through the year, and the small businesses up and down New Zealand will be paying another price. Not only do they take the risk and have to collect the tax that the Government is taking from them, but they pay the price of the overheads in the system change, the staff training, the uncertainty, and the risk that customers will keep their wallets closed during the so-called aggressive recovery\u2014so called because it is not happening. It is not happening, because the New Zealand public does not believe that the Government has a plan, and they are right. The Government has no plan for jobs, no plan for growth, and no plan for leading New Zealand forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIf there was any doubt about that, the Government\u2019s latest U-turn on savings is proof positive. For the 2 years of this National Government, Labour has been saying that New Zealand\u2019s savings gap is critical. Labour has been out front saying that our net international debt at 90 percent of GDP is a killer and that the Government needs to focus on it. After 9 years in Opposition, 2 years in Government, and two Budgets, National has finally set up a committee\u2014a committee. So bereft of ideas is the Government that it is reaching out for others to tell it what to do, in the face of this enormous yawning international debt and crucial savings gap, and that is instructive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIt is instructive that in the ACT Party\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper on this bill, which gives New Zealanders the option of increasing their contribution rate\u2014in other words going back to what it was under Labour before National gutted it\u2014there is no mention of an employer contribution. So they are putting it back on hard-pressed Kiwi householders who are already facing a rise in GST, and they are asking them to save more as well. How will they do that? It will be by compulsion. How do we know that? Because Bill English has said that there will be no new sweeteners, no new money; this will be fiscally neutral. So whatever the savings committee comes up with, it will have to make it fiscally neutral. There will be no sweeteners; that leaves only compulsion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe word around the building for New Zealanders out there is that the Government will almost certainly go the route of compulsion. If it is not, why does it not rule that out now? Why do Government members not stand up and reassure hard-pressed Kiwis who cannot afford groceries that they will not force them to take more money off the table in the middle of a recession? There is silence, not a word. Silence speaks for itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u002287fda10ac9704c51a03582a798787aa7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287fda10ac9704c51a03582a798787aa7\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Just for the record, I assure the members opposite and the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Revenue, that Labour supports the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill. The work on it started under a Labour Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ad14920f97445259773cf2b250c6530\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Go upstairs and talk to Phil.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f479ab236124a9497016a9a0dceb3d7\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: No, Labour supports this bill, as does Phil Goff. He was very, very clear, and he made some excellent comments during his speech\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f3d4f935e664e54ba588009e76a75cc\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: And by the way, why is your leader here at the Committee stage of the debate? It\u2019s bizarre.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237b675f4ba8a4ef489ca183519f5d644\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Would National members like us to withdraw our support for this bill? Is that what members opposite would like? Would they like us to spend the next 12 calls criticising this bill? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe reason we support the bill is because the work started under Labour. We also support ACT\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper, which puts back in place some things that were removed by this Government. We support the Government Supplementary Order Papers, and we have also introduced an excellent amendment to exempt council rate payments from GST. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThis bill is a hopeful bill. It is hopeful because it hopes that droves of New Zealanders who have gone overseas to live in Australia\u2014those who have gone for a better life because they are not finding it here under this Government, and those who are still moving to Australia by the planeload every week as we speak\u2014will come home and bring their savings with them. I ask the Minister and National members opposite why those people would return. Why would they come back from Australia when their GST will increase on 1 October, when they will pay more in rates, and when this Government has gutted many things, particularly for retirees? The Government has made it difficult by cutting support for hearing aid subsidies, by cutting home help, by cutting elder abuse education, by cutting elder driver courses, and by allowing ever-increasing electricity bills. Why would people come back from Australia and bring their savings with them? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThere is a good idea behind this bill; retirement savings portability is sensible. We have been told that potentially $16.6 billion in lost contributions from New Zealanders working in Australia could come back to New Zealand under this scheme. The Government hopes that they come back to New Zealand, but if even a fraction of lost contributions come back to New Zealand it would have a positive impact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that the Government, in the last couple of weeks, has belatedly decided to do something about savings. KiwiSaver is an excellent scheme and the Government has continued with it even though it gutted it at its first Budget when it came into Government. It has had to acknowledge that Michael Cullen, Helen Clark, and the Labour Government had an excellent idea with KiwiSaver. It has been enormously popular: over a million people have signed up to it. This Government has finally realised that there is a problem with savings, and it wants to do something about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EEven though it supports KiwiSaver it has, of course, attacked the Cullen fund. It has stopped the contributions and, in typical Government fashion, made no decisions. That nice Mr Key has said that the Government will have a committee that will start with a blank sheet. It sounds to me a little like the National plan for the economy\u2014a blank sheet. It will set up a panel of experts who may or may not report back before the next election. As other speakers have said, when this Government has no ideas it forms a committee. We have so many committees, review groups, and so on. I wonder whether one of the first recommendations the committee will make will be to reverse the stupid decisions around suspending contributions to the Cullen fund and to put back the holes that National created in the KiwiSaver scheme when it first came into power. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ELet us think back a little bit about what the Government did under urgency to the KiwiSaver scheme before Christmas 2008. The minimum member contribution rate was reduced from 4 percent to 2 percent, and 2 percent became the default contribution rate for new employee members from 1 April 2009. Then, of course, compulsory employer contributions were capped at 2 percent, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EInevitably we talk a lot about Australia, because the Government has no plan for catching up with Australia and we are drifting further and further behind. I cannot help but reflect that the Australians got it right a long time ago. They were smart. They got it right. They got together with the unions and workers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd632551809f4a568211bb455dd12658\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: They brought in asset testing for superannuation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce1f730cb14446eea452f59043d39581\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: They brought in compulsory superannuation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022679239f8057441ca90b0978f431a0ac9\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Asset testing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b6c01d294ff4e25b8295165712774c1\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. They brought in compulsory superannuation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00225b9020a4e42246a88ac8e15c02b0a93c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b9020a4e42246a88ac8e15c02b0a93c\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to make one thing perfectly clear to this Committee that Mr Foss and the Hon Peter Dunne have got wrong. Labour never supported an increase in GST. Labour will never support an increase in GST. This bill is not about an increase in GST. If this bill were about an increase in GST we would be opposing it with every single fibre in our bodies, as the vast majority of New Zealanders have done. I want to make that abundantly clear now. We did oppose the increase in GST, and we would do it again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBut we do support this bill and its Supplementary Order Papers, and there are three things I would like to comment on specifically. This bill is necessary to ensure the integrity of tax legislation. It is also about doing business and making the transfer of savings funds across the Tasman relatively easy. The second point is what an absolute shambles this whole implementation of GST has been. The third point is to ask where the hell the Government\u2019s plan is. What is the plan for savings, and what is the plan for this economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI have a couple of things I would like to say beforehand. Mr Foss stood up and spoke about honesty. I can tell this Committee that Phil Goff, our leader, would never stand in front of the nation and say, as Mr Key did, that he would not increase GST, then increase GST. It must make Mr Foss feel rather uncomfortable whenever he watches the video and sees Mr Key say to the nation: \u201CNational will not increase GST.\u201D Yet National members have the nerve to stand up and lecture Labour on honesty. That is the reason why Mr Key will be a one-term Prime Minister and why Mr Goff will be the next Prime Minister of New Zealand. It is because he has integrity and he is an honest man. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThen we had Mr Gilmore. He was unbelievable. He stood up and asked why we would take GST off rates, as it was only $25 a week. He said: \u201CMy household can bear that.\u201D I challenge Mr Gilmore to live on the median wage in his electorate for 1 month. I think it is about $30,000. I challenge him then to come back to this House and tell us that $25 a week is not much money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThen we had Mr Tremain and Mr Foss from the Bay stand up and shout it down. They are so out of touch that they do not think the people of Hawke\u2019s Bay are concerned about an increase in their rates. I challenge Mr Tremain and Mr Foss to hold a public meeting and explain to the people of the Bay why an increase in GST on their rates is necessary. No one in the Bay wants an increase in GST on their rates. That increase in rates will not go towards the city council\u2019s coffers at all. It will go to the Government. The people of Napier will pay more in their rates but not one single cent of it will go to the City of Napier. It will go to the 6 percent of people in Napier who earn over $70,000. So those members should not talk to me about honesty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAs for Mr Gilmore, wow, he is one man who is way out of touch. He is on $134,000 and he stands up and says that an increase in his rates will not make any difference to his household. I can tell Mr Gilmore that he is one of the lucky few in this country who is on a salary of that level. He is one of the lucky few who is about to get a tax cut of approximately $100 a week. Those people in his electorate who are on the minimum wage will get about $3 a week. Mr Gilmore said that $25 a week means nothing. He should try to live on the median wage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI would like to talk about what this bill does and the reason why we support it. The bill introduces changes to the tax rules to allow New Zealanders returning home from Australia to bring their retirement savings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022992267193b844254a407363878f965f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022992267193b844254a407363878f965f5\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support this bill as a Government member. But before I talk about the bill, I want to straighten out a few facts that Mr Nash, the member opposite who has just spoken, did not quite understand, or maybe he was deliberately distorting the representations made by Mr Foss and Mr Gilmore. Mr Gilmore referred to rates for a year\u2014not $25 per week. The reference to $25 per week was a reference to our tax cuts. He said that there would be tax cuts of a minimum of $25 a week. I ask Mr Nash not to distort the picture or the representations made by my colleague Mr Gilmore, please. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003ESecondly, Mr Nash said that Labour was not a party that would increase GST. He forgets that Labour was the Government that imposed GST, from zero to 10 percent. It was a Labour Government that increased GST in 1989 from 10 percent to 12.5 percent. I do not understand the views of Labour members today. Some Labour members oppose it and some are asking for an increase. I do not know where Labour members stand today. I do not know who is leading the Labour Party today, but there is certainly some conjecture and uncertainty on the cross benches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EWe also heard this morning that there was no plan, yet in this House Labour members regularly ignore the fact that we have set out a plan for the building of infrastructure, we have set out a plan for the taxation mix to promote investment and savings in this country, we have set out a plan for increasing the standards in education, and we have set out a plan for delivering front-line services in health and other social services. Members opposite choose to ignore the plan. Members opposite choose not to listen to the people. Why is that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EAfter 9 long years of a Labour regime, when we have export growth that has been negative now for 5 consecutive years, I ask how we will get this economy moving. How can we get an economy moving when exports, year on year, are decreasing? How do we get our real wages moving in comparison to Australia\u2019s when for the last 9 years under a Labour Government, we had an average wage growth of 3 percent? I ask Mr Foss how much it was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c73fbb3bd2441ac9f9921ca7a73d7f1\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: 3 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f35e1693e5a430eb4dd4db98e67a987\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: It was 3 percent. Yet in the less than 2 years that this Government has been in charge of the Treasury benches, our wage growth has been\u2014I ask Mr Foss\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb4634c2f71148a69624afb2ff52d44a\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: 8.7 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c1eb6ce842b45e6881e5f123a8c09ff\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: \u20148.7 percent. We know that 2 years is not enough time to turn round this economy. We know that we have a job to do as the National Government, and we know that we have had to sort out the mess that we inherited from members opposite. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI return to the bill. The bill is supported across the House, despite the protestations from members opposite. The bill opens the way for New Zealanders who have worked hard in Australia to bring their retirement savings home, and that is particularly important. They are able to bring their retirement savings home. Of course there is reciprocity in this bill. Australians who live here can take their savings home. But we all know that the benefits of this bill will largely be felt by New Zealand citizens who are returning home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe bill is about allowing people who have made compulsory contributions to an Australian fund to return those funds home. The funds are required to be put into KiwiSaver accounts. That is important, because it will ensure that in the long term those funds are invested in our superannuation scheme. This bill improves the plight of New Zealanders, and obviously I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022 data-id=\u0022421a0258c272440d88627dbd12fab110\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022421a0258c272440d88627dbd12fab110\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022988ce2d615d4494cb4feddca43445469\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: A rare moment!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e9fd590864143c9810cd67bd0c075e8\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I can hear a gentleman burbling on the other side. He did not even know how to say no twice yesterday, so the Minister of Finance took the question off him. That is what is happening with this Government. Its members are not too sure who is steering what, or who is in charge of what.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EWhat is important is to make sure that we get this message across. I listened intently to Minister Dunne\u2019s response. The previous speaker, Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga, should be ashamed, because he knows what is going on in relation to Pacific people. Let us talk about the wage gap between New Zealand and Australia. It is flattening out at 20 percent. The effort in this bill is needed to ensure that incomes made there come home, because since this Government has come into office, for the top end of the exodus of people, especially working-class people, the gap has increased by 26 percent. When Labour was in Government, members opposite kept on parroting about closing the gap. They said they would come up with a plan that would mend all of those relevant issues and ensure that people would stay in New Zealand. The group of people going to Australia is the largest in the last 34 years. Put that in your pipe and smoke it! It is a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EThat member over there has been going on about the increase in wages\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae2430c6e8654fd0936fb8c374c1b3ea\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I object to the member telling you to put it in your pipe and smoke it. I think the member should withdraw and apologise for making those comments about you. I believe that you do not even smoke, Mr Chairperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022013d4c566deb4acdb9dd82d68b13119a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The point of order is upheld in terms of the pronoun that the member used. I know that in times of passion members get a bit sloppy about that, but the Chair is not to be brought into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285a729f22ba44d3c8f3734e075bfd373\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. Being a non-smoker myself, I say thank goodness, because the working class in this country is being punished.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003ELet us talk about the rate rises. A farmer on the main road gets nothing. Do members know what they are told? They are told they have the use of the library and the swimming pool, but nothing else. Worse still, for M\u0101ori in Porangahau, where that member over there comes from, and whose family are well known in the sense of building sites and selling sections, the rates are going up something unreal. How do we manage that? My colleague and neighbour Minister Tolley knows what I am about to say. In the sense of multiple-owned land, M\u0101ori get nothing, but they pay the same rates. It is an imbalance. I refer to the people in Porangahau, who have lived there for years and years, and those in Bayview in Napier, who have lived there for years and years. That bloke over there says that everybody can afford the increase. Labour\u2019s common-sense notion that we have a freeze until the end of the financial year is something that surely the Minister could support right now. That is the difference here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003EI turn to the increase in GST. Mr Foss argues that there will be an increase in the wages taken home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263c632653f3146b08f07d06cbf60cb76\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Real wages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022849ec68967054c73bb6a33bf27395bdd\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: Real wages. But when we go to the supermarket, we find that costs have risen by 18 percent, and the GST increase will make costs go up further. There is no rise in the minimum wage. The last time that group was in Government it took the minimum wage up by 52c, or it might have been 58c. Labour took the minimum wage up nine times. That was alongside our clear economic plan, which stabilised export productivity and ensured that farms, on average, were coming through at 19.9 percent in the sense of free returns at the top end. We made sure of that. What has happened now? It has jammed. The timber returns are real because of the world uptake. [Interruption] This is relevant to GST, I say to Mr Foss. He is supposed to be the finance brain. This is relevant to GST.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d28eb6a38cd484298b3931b74420c4d\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Well, try and get to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dbc4bd6e9ee4ec58d4bb7c2b78aad93\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: We are at it, I say to Mr Foss, and he should be ashamed that 40 percent of the people in Hastings are unemployed. How can he sit there, pontificate, and see people losing their jobs? In Auckland 150 jobs were advertised and 2,700 people turned up for an interview. What does he have to say? He should get out to Maraenui, get out to Flaxmere, and see what is happening to the families. They cannot afford a whole lot of things. That member dared to suggest that this increase was not much of an increase. That is shameful, and he knows it is; it is shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5c9bdfe88754ffea693a590462c168a\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: 3 percent over 9 years is a terrible increase. It is a shocking, shameful increase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022922878f9bd1c45b7ba39ee06e09a0db0\u0022\u003EHon PAREKURA HOROMIA\u003C/span\u003E: But alongside it we had income-related rents\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022783a2b2fe63845d18d7bd1b4d2ff210b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022783a2b2fe63845d18d7bd1b4d2ff210b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to correct some factual inaccuracies that have been conveyed by members of the Government\u2014no one will be surprised about that. There are two in particular I would like to turn the Committee\u2019s attention to. The first is the spurious claim that National has magicked an 8.7 percent wage growth since it came to office. I will just look into those numbers for the benefit of the Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210f7a17cb19c4e1baac702dc97c8e86a\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Real.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022493e776a33a940d2b47f2f0340d3482d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: That is far off the mark. The other is that Kiwis are somehow $25 a week better off through paying more GST. Let us look at the first one. I was interested that the National Government seems to be repeating the claim that somehow Kiwis are 8.7 percent better off in real terms since it was elected, but that does not feel right, does it? Everybody knows that the recovery is not happening, everybody knows that the Government has no plan, and nobody is feeling better off. Where did that number come from? Well, we had the research unit have a bit of a look at it, and this is what it has told us so far: the 8.7 percent includes Labour\u2019s tax cuts in Budget 2008. So the National Government has counted the policies of the previous Labour Government as part of the credit for its administration. Well, that is the best way I know for National to say that Labour did a really good job, that National is sorry it got elected and Labour did not get a chance to keep doing it, and that National is going to count Labour\u2019s policies as its gain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EInterestingly, of course, it follows that it is not wage growth at all in the context that an ordinary New Zealander would understand it; it is net wages after tax. So if we correct those anomalies and put Labour\u2019s policies into Labour\u2019s total, and National\u2019s policies in National\u2019s total, where do the numbers go? It is very instructive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224eabe0ea25294637ad5f479c025dc731\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: This is what matters: if people can buy more next year or the year after.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221721271600db4270b09cb5c3d2414f11\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE\u003C/span\u003E: The National senior whip might care to listen to this, because it will be big in the Hawke\u2019s Bay. When we correct the total, National can claim at most only about 4 percent net wage growth, but even that seems a huge stretch of the imagination. Labour had at least 6.3 percent. We know there was at least 6.3 percent real growth under Labour and this National Government is nowhere near it. We can talk about slipperiness. My youngest child was just given a book by a friend called The Wonky Donkey. It is a lovely book, but every time I see it I see the \u201CShonky John-Key\u201D. The \u201CShonky John-Key\u201D is the leader of a party that would take Labour\u2019s tax cuts and count them into National\u2019s wage growth\u2014ridiculous! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EHow about the second claim that somehow New Zealanders are $25 a week better off after the Budget? I ask members how that could be true, because GST takes $2.1 billion from them and there are about $1.95 billion of tax cuts back, of which a third go to the top 5 percent. So what do average Kiwis have? They will be worse off until 2014. We think that they will be from $20 to $50 a week worse off. Why? Because according to the Government\u2019s own Budget forecasts there will be 5.9 percent inflation next year. That means that with 2 percent wage growth and 6 percent inflation, people will go backwards. It is not difficult to work it out. In fact, on our numbers people will be going backwards until after the 2014 election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ENational is saying that it will put up GST now, and that people will pay more but have less to put towards the grocery bill every year until two elections away\u2014two elections away. What are New Zealanders supposed to do in the meantime if they cannot pay the rent, the power bill, and the rates, and buy food? That is why at the very least our amendment gives people relief from the increase in GST on their rates for this year, by saying that the increase will not apply until the next financial year. It would reduce the compliance costs of doing funny money changeovers in the middle of the year. They would be funny money changeovers like the other funny money changeovers in the 28-page tidy-up Supplementary Order Papers that the Minister of Revenue has had to bring to the Committee, with his tail between his legs in order to beg for mercy today, because the legislation is a mess. It was a bad idea, it has been badly implemented, and it is a shocker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00228f72168a871f4c959bf39750b4ab6758\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f72168a871f4c959bf39750b4ab6758\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As I was saying before, Labour supports the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, Kiwi-Saver, and Remedial Matters) Bill. The reason we support it is that it is a remedial matters bill, and it also introduces changes to tax rules to allow New Zealanders to return home. Labour always supports sensible legislation that makes it easier for ordinary Kiwis\u2014or extraordinary Kiwis\u2014to do business and work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI will talk about just a couple of bits in this bill. The bill brings in trans-Tasman portability of retirement savings. Sam Lotu-Iiga hit the nail on the head when he said that this bill will help Kiwis coming home from Australia. Why is that? It is because they have significantly greater savings than do New Zealanders in New Zealand. New Zealanders in Australia have significantly greater savings because Australia has had a superannuation scheme going for a long time. New Zealand also had a superannuation scheme. It was set up by Roger Douglas, but it was cut by a National Government. My colleague David Cunliffe has alluded to it. Can we imagine the size of our capital markets now if that superannuation scheme had been allowed to continue, like the Australian scheme? I think the estimation of worth is about $300 billion. The reason we have such a savings deficit at the moment is that a National Government cut the superannuation scheme\u2014National cut it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESam Lotu-Iiga stands up and talks about the necessity of a GST increase. I challenge that member to hold a public meeting in Maungakiekie with the title \u201CWhy GST is important\u201D. I challenge him to do that; I know that my colleague Carol Beaumont would come along. Sam would be ripped limb from limb. There is no reason why that increase in GST is important, especially when the money has been set aside for tax cuts for the wealthy. It is just not fair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI will talk about Peter Dunne\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper. It shows what an absolute shambles this whole GST implementation has been. Mr Dunne talked about Labour\u2019s introduction of GST in 1989, well over 20 years ago, and I hoped he might have learnt from that experience and come to the House with a bill that did not need 28 pages of Supplementary Order Paper. In fact, Ernst and Young, one of the largest accountancy companies, is throwing up its hands in frustration and saying that it is a little more difficult than New Zealanders would have thought\u2014\u201Cthis is not a moderate increase\u201D. Those words were from Ernst and Young, not the Labour Party. We agree with that major accountancy company, which is highlighting the fact that this is an absolute shambles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI have heard stories that Inland Revenue Department staff are being inundated with calls on questions to do with GST that they simply do not have answers to. People are tearing their hair out because the Inland Revenue Department staff themselves simply do not know the answers. Mr Dunne set up a GST commission, and that was a mighty fine idea. It has reported back with 23 pages of Supplementary Order Paper, but obviously it has not been communicated to the Inland Revenue Department staff on the ground. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe reason we support Mr Dunne\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper is that its changes have to be made. There is no way we can put through such a flawed bill that leaves so many holes and that leaves taxpayers not knowing whether they are Arthur or Martha. That is what we are supporting\u2014the integrity of the tax system. We are not supporting an increase in GST. We have never supported an increase in GST. We went to the people of New Zealand from Kait\u0101ia to Bluff, and none of them supported an increase in GST, at all. This is an absolute shambles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ELet us talk about the savings history time line. In 1974 Labour and the Kirk Government introduced a compulsory superannuation scheme. As mentioned, Roger Douglas was the architect. As an aside, I think it is quite sad to note that the last speech I heard Roger Douglas give was in support of a rort on workers\u2019 rights. He is a man whose father and grandfather were Labour Party MPs. Labour Party philosophy is in his blood, but at some point he turned to the dark side, and now he is giving speeches in the House against the rights of workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022481fbc17bc884b35a98d6ea8e0b15f1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022481fbc17bc884b35a98d6ea8e0b15f1b\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I will talk a little bit about why the Labour Party is supporting the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Amendment Bill. I will also talk about the fact that this Government does not have a plan, and about some of the issues to do with GST, the rise in GST, and its effect on ordinary working people. I will also talk about the importance of attracting people back from Australia to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThere is no doubt that Labour is supporting this bill. We are supporting it because it is based on work that was done by the previous Labour Government, not because the National Government has somehow magically created this amazing plan that will create jobs, provide incentives for New Zealanders to come back from Australia, and close the wage gap between Australia and New Zealand, because that is just not the case. The legislation is all based on work that was done by the previous Labour Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI want to talk a bit about the provisions for retirement savings portability, because I am one of those New Zealanders who came back from Australia, as I know that this is the best place to be. I was really supportive when the previous Government began work on ensuring there would be retirement savings portability, because I know how many New Zealanders there are in Australia who have built up savings under the industry superannuation scheme who will benefit from that provision. It certainly is a sensible arrangement. We have been told that potentially $16.6 billion is lost in contributions by New Zealanders who work in Australia and who could, under this scheme, come back to New Zealand. Even if a fraction of that money was to come back home, of course that would have a positive impact, and we certainly support that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAlthough it is one positive step for current and future New Zealand superannuitants, this Government has ultimately undermined its commitment to New Zealand superannuation and to superannuitants. We had that stunning Budget 2009 decision to undermine the Superannuation Fund by suspending contributions for 10 years. The Minister of Finance has been trying to justify his short-sighted decision ever since. However, the foolishness of that decision is plain, with the Superannuation Fund gaining by $3.35 billion since last year\u2019s Budget. We have heard Treasury analysis, which was released the day after the Budget, that showed the Minister of Finance\u2019s plan guts the Superannuation Fund by 50 percent, and it will never be able to catch up. The analysis said that the fund will be short by $35 billion. We know that Budget 2010 only made the situation for most superannuitants worse. Bill English said that we could not afford to contribute and that we would have to resume contributions when we got back into surplus. This year\u2019s Budget revealed that we will be back in surplus in 5 years, but contributions do not resume for a further 4 years after that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAlthough this bill will make it easier for superannuitants to return to New Zealand and bring their savings with them, which is what we want them to do, the Government\u2019s most recent Budget will have many questioning whether the move is worth it. If I were in Australia looking at New Zealand at the moment, I do not think I would be making the decision to come back right now if I thought that I would be any better off. It would be interesting to get a sense of that from some of the New Zealanders who are living in Australia and looking across the Ditch, at this place. For one thing, where would they get a job? How would they get a job? It is not exactly a very supportive environment to come back into, especially with young children. If people have young children they would be looking at the 20 hours\u2019 free early childhood education and thinking how long it will last, and if they get a job there will be a measly tax cut, but GST is going up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00223c96cb9cc42041c29140c671a8548a42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c96cb9cc42041c29140c671a8548a42\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We are nearing lunchtime so I will sum up some of the arguments the Labour Opposition has made in the debate on the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill. As has been alluded to by Minister Dunne, Labour supports this bill. It supports two Supplementary Order Papers, one put forward by Minister Dunne and one put forward by the ACT MP David Garrett, and we ask Minister Dunne to seriously consider supporting Labour\u2019s amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EOne of the main reasons that Labour has put forward this amendment is to give some GST relief in terms of rates relief to good, hard-working New Zealanders. The other reason we would like Mr Dunne to consider supporting this amendment is that in principle and in practice it is incredibly similar to the other provisions that are being exempted until the end of this financial year. By that, I mean that the rates bills are out. Ratepayers have the bills in their hands, they have been in the letterbox, and they know what their rates will be. A lot of councils have put on the bottom of the rates notice that if the bill is paid in full, ratepayers will pay only 12.5 percent GST, but if payment is staggered, ratepayers will pay 12.5 percent GST on the first part and 15 percent GST on any payment after 1 October. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThere are two reasons why this is a good amendment. As mentioned, the first is that it provides a measure of relief to good, hard-working New Zealanders, and the second is that it fits into the general practice and the general theory of the other parts of Mr Dunne\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 157, which Labour is supporting. So we would like the Minister of Revenue, Peter Dunne, to support this amendment and to look at it with the philosophical and the practical approach taken by his other Supplementary Order Papers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThere have been other arguments. It has been held up by Mr Foss and Mr Dunne that Labour is supporting this bill, and that by supporting it we support an increase in GST. Nothing could be further from the truth. I want to have it on record once more that Labour does not support any increase in GST. Labour has never supported any increase in GST. If this bill were about an increase in GST, then we would absolutely not be supporting it. In fact, we are supporting amendments that limit GST to 12.5 percent through to the end of the financial year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWe have talked about savings. We have talked about the complete and utter lack of a plan. Labour is the party that put measures in place to increase the savings of New Zealanders. There was the Kirk Government savings plan, which National abolished, and there was the Cullen Superannuation Fund, which National has stopped making contributions to. We now have a Government that comes out and says that it will set up a committee. It is to set up a committee. Two years after assuming the Treasury benches, it will set up a committee. I wonder whether that is what its polling tells it to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ELabour has been talking about savings for a long, long time. Ever since we assumed Opposition for this brief 3-year period, we have articulated clearly the issue of savings. As Mr Dunne will know as Minister of Revenue in the previous Labour Government, savings was a big part of Labour\u2019s platform. As the vast majority of Kiwis will attest to in any sort of polling done by any party, KiwiSaver was incredibly important and the Cullen fund was supported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAgain I come back to the Labour amendment, because we are talking about savings and we are talking about families. Mr Dunne, in fact, set up the Families Commission. In the Labour amendment we are asking for some relief for families who are living the dream, who own their own home, but who will struggle to pay the rates at 15 percent GST. When someone like Mr Gilmore stands up and says that it is only $25, I suggest that that member is a little out of touch. Any amount of money is important to families who are really struggling. They are struggling to budget with an increase in GST anyway. The price of their petrol, the price of their food, and the price of their clothes\u2014basic necessities\u2014are to go up. We are asking the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Revenue, to give them some relief along these lines, because it is in absolute alignment with the Minister\u2019s own principles about families. It is absolutely in line with the Minister\u2019s principles as set out in his Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWe support this bill for a whole raft of reasons. It closes loopholes, it makes it easier for Kiwis to come home\u2014which we support, even though I doubt that many will come home under this Government\u2014and it makes it easier for Kiwis to do business. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u00222026df51c4904b6688c23b98c54d9836\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222026df51c4904b6688c23b98c54d9836\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will pick up from where my colleague Stuart Nash left off and talk about the question of savings. One area of the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill that we support is the provisions relating to KiwiSaver. KiwiSaver, as we know, was introduced by the previous Labour Government. It is a good savings vehicle. It has had huge pick-up by New Zealanders. It is obviously intended to supplement New Zealand superannuation rather than replace it, but it is an important vehicle to try to lift New Zealand\u2019s savings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe previous Labour Government had a very proud record in terms of savings, as Mr Nash has indicated. This is unlike National Governments, which we can see have, over a period of time, worked against the idea of building up savings within our economy, to our detriment. That is to the detriment of all of us and our children and grandchildren. We do not have the level of savings we need as a country to move forward and to look at lifting our economic performance. That is a huge mistake and I think we should acknowledge it in this Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThis bill makes some provisions for KiwiSaver that will ensure greater clarity\u2014for example, with regard to the enrolment of under-18-year-olds. There is perhaps some emphasis by some of the KiwiSaver providers on looking at that particular demographic, and the bill will provide some clarity on who has to enrol people who are under 18. It provides for those under 16 to be enrolled by their legal guardians, with those who are 16 and 17 co-signing the enrolment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003ESupplementary Order Paper 158, which is in the name of David Garrett from the ACT Party, suggests amendments to KiwiSaver. Again, it has the sensible suggestion of providing for additional rates at which workers can save in KiwiSaver. Of course, we need to acknowledge that in the current environment that is incredibly difficult, because people are struggling. As many of my colleagues have pointed out, it is tough out there, and the Government is fooling itself if it does not recognise that. We have heard spurious figures about wages increases earlier today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220873009a4475497d8f7884c6666018e1\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f32d9f2dd417447fb3f1d62e42c57f56\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dc42a73dc3cf4996b645d1b190ac3811\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00223967b5d9ade94337808ba22c224be86b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223967b5d9ade94337808ba22c224be86b\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Just to ensure that we have a smooth run through question time, I notify the House that it is the Government\u2019s desire that Dr Nick Smith should answer question No. 5, but his plane is somewhat delayed. I suggest that if he is unavailable, question No. 5 replaces question No. 12, and we shuffle everything up the order. I seek leave for that to occur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228854f312a3db4a9b86ccd16d3ba2bbb2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action? Did members hear that? If the Minister for ACC is not in the House, then question No. 5 would be dropped down the Order Paper to the bottom of the questions. Is there any objection to that course of action? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ed758a72bf2a4ae9b8559590c1e97642\u0022\u003EGST\u2014Comparison with OECD Countries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022c16eea87ab1346f7bcc55eb1c3b25e74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c16eea87ab1346f7bcc55eb1c3b25e74\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: When he told the House on 9 February that New Zealand taxes consumption at a relatively low rate, was he aware that New Zealand had the sixth-highest rate of consumption taxation in the OECD as a percentage of GDP; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022429e3aaf60b94ff3a6ad92cc655e50f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022429e3aaf60b94ff3a6ad92cc655e50f4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E When I made the statement that the Leader of the Opposition refers to, I was aware that 23 out of 29 OECD countries had a higher rate of GST or VAT than New Zealand. Only Canada, Japan, Switzerland, Korea, and Australia had lower rates of GST. My statement was therefore 100 percent correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022801badf3fd9348e8a562a014976b6815\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: In calculating the figure in the way that the Prime Minister has chosen to, has he taken into account that, actually, New Zealanders pay more GST, because there are hardly any exemptions, whereas most of the other countries, at the ordinary headline rate, have major exemptions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268f0d5bae8794c4e9fc3bd9073f2dfa6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. It is called broad based - low rate, and it was designed by Phil Goff and his Government in 1986.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eb0171ba4774ec7b851e7c6c5e6b59b\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the OECD statistics extracts that show that New Zealand, before the GST increase, has the sixth-highest rate of consumption taxes as a percentage of GDP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217f3e19a87034eaca9a6533c81104fd2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I check? I seem to have a recollection that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4e0dd9d5059409faaaed92e6ced6fa9\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is a different document from yesterday\u2019s. Yesterday\u2019s document was a bar graph showing that; this is the actual extract from the OECD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287333b8b8b024be98283e7aab2ee6803\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise. It is an extract from an OECD document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f18cd6ad28b4a3ca4dfae027aa4d860\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: OECD statistics extracts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223062d4d2c42c4e4c99741af94e80bbed\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265e5480a2f744430a467fc1bbffbb037\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Prime Minister push consumption tax, GST, up still further when he had promised not to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232d086a58ec44b799713bbb5d8dc9182\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: As I said some time ago, when I was asked whether GST would rise, it was in relation to covering deficits. That is not why we are raising GST; it is because we are also lowering personal income taxes. What I do know is that the last time GST was raised in this country\u2014I think it was in 1989\u2014by the then Labour Government, there was no compensation for anyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e3584012ad449dfaf8143ad5ddcfb2b\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table this document, which states \u201CNational is not going to be raising GST\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0b71a4591ef44738299d3b72465740c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before anything is quoted from the document, we need to know what the document is. What is the source of the document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d88fe224c0848fa8adff1ff2b0a7aa1\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: The source of the document is actually, originally, a video of what the Prime Minister said on television. This is from the New Zealand Herald.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204362d1c4b6e4b7585fdbf935b2e7d05\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We are not going to be tabling statements from videos.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba1ce1c9ecfd44899ea6215087b05319\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Will the increased rate of GST take more from low to middle income people as a proportion of their income than from wealthy people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022749920ba884442268a76a6c3007c3809\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not believe so, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223ad660d5c074564b1a03c5c7c65d543\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: What world did you live in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3a5164e7a7b4199a9f2659980e683b7\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I am sure that is not the world that you lived in; it was directed to the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229659dc97448f4de28a863e7d7cfa22d9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was the member\u2019s colleague who interjected inappropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225495db16d71f4ada8eb391527fef47b0\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government\u2019s estimate of how much, in dollar terms, the increase in the rate of GST will add to the average price of a new home for a first home buyer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212dbcb4fd6b34b508084dec70367ba16\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have that to hand. If the member wants to put it in writing, I can get it for him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f4effcd952c4066b49342b43570cb2b\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Prime Minister think that if the average cost of construction is about $300,000, the extra price that a new home purchaser will be paying is about $7,000 to $8,000 extra in tax?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ea0c0e643194ff8b4edcdd0dc845675\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: That may or may not be correct; we will need to work our way through that. What I can say is that the two most important factors in the affordability of a home for someone are interest rates and his or her after-tax income. Under a National Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b51de3280c54398845c07165cff5ed9\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think the Prime Minister answered the question by saying he did not know. That was the answer, and the rest of his answer is extraneous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aab8e3784d1246a6b10f365e88b5906b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do accept the point of order that it was a very, very tight question, and therefore there should not be further information given on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d695089ead254910aa774eb42c939027\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: How many letters has the Prime Minister received recently like the one that I have in my hand, which was copied to me but addressed to him, saying the relentless increase in Government charges like accident compensation, road-user charges, and, soon, GST and taxes on property has put this man out of business, and he\u2014Mr Key\u2014is out of touch with the costs facing ordinary income earners in this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5343be30e5f4309adf60035dc6a2bf2\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I get about 2,000 pieces of correspondence a week, so I cannot tell the member exactly. What I can say is that I have never had a hand-delivered note written by a member of my caucus telling me that I am \u201Coutski\u201D; that is for sure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b96703549f2d4178a546aad16716d467\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table the letter that I have just referred to, in which the gentleman concerned said Mr Key has effectively put him\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3fe935fdc4d4b269b50a43fb4774408\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table a letter from a New Zealander, apparently. Is there any objection to that? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eb44060d49224ff184933ff70e99482e\u0022\u003EOverseas Investment Rules\u2014New Zealand - China Free-trade Agreement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u00226c7fd83a6c0945a2b000a0454ebb4acf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c7fd83a6c0945a2b000a0454ebb4acf\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What constraints, if any, does the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement place on the ability of the New Zealand Government to tighten the rules governing the sale of New Zealand land to overseas buyers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022192ef4002d2546e2b4b02fe2a1d45aae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022192ef4002d2546e2b4b02fe2a1d45aae\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E In a number of free-trade agreements, as well as in respect of the World Trade Organization, New Zealand has committed to not changing the classes of investments that are subject to screening under the Overseas Investment Act. This means we will be able to continue to screen investments in those existing classes set out in the legislation\u2014significant business assets, and sensitive land, including farmland. Chinese investors are subject to the same rules as everyone else. In all our free-trade agreements, New Zealand has preserved the ability to alter some of the criteria and factors against which proposed investments are assessed, if that is deemed desirable by the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f6acbf2938e438e806c990c1f75dab6\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the case that rules governing the sale of land to overseas buyers from China in force at the time of the signing of the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement cannot be tightened without breaching the terms of the agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eda46a20c5934333967132fc9dd53f61\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not think I would agree with the member. He has raised a quite legitimate issue\u2014that is, if the Government were to alter the Overseas Investment Act, it would need to take account of the undertakings it had made in free-trade agreements. But I do not believe that those undertakings prevent a tightening of the rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e2da78ce40c45b0ab2283bb850775d6\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: In terms of the current review of overseas investment that the Minister referred to previously, and dealing with overseas investment in land in particular, has he considered the issues in relationship to free-trade agreements and whether those free-trade agreements place constraints on how we can change the Overseas Investment Regulations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faca5a2ae4ae44e89a0678a4548d7854\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: If the Government were to make any change to the Overseas Investment Act, then, yes, it would certainly be checking that change against the free-trade agreements. My impression is that those agreements do not prevent the Government from altering, to some extent, the way that it screens incoming investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220353572430fb453dbae8a1cef5b68712\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: If the Government were to decide that all sensitive land\u2014defined within the Overseas Investment Regulations as farmland of greater than 5 hectares, for example\u2014must remain within New Zealand ownership and could not be sold into overseas ownership, would that stay within the terms of the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242f9303af5f54810b3158459627d5627\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly, from the Government\u2019s point of view that is a hypothetical question, because we would not be considering the option of banning any overseas ownership of sensitive land. Sensitive land is a very broad category of land. It includes farmland, but it also includes quite small areas of land next to waterways, for instance, such as sections with commercial buildings on them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edf39b21ea3740ad94cb45e59d19cbcf\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: How will his Government constrain the ability of overseas investors from China to buy land in New Zealand without tightening the overseas investment rules, hence potentially breaching the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b944a65d69194dfa8437b1c61ed7d92b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It is unlikely\u2014in fact, it is out of the question\u2014that the Government would tighten criteria related to investors from one particular country. I do not think our free-trade agreements or our commitment to the World Trade Organization would allow that; in fact, it would not be sensible economically, either. We need to keep in mind that any investor coming in to buy, say, farmland in New Zealand has to pass the existing tests in the Overseas Investment Act. Those tests were laid down by the previous Government when it rewrote the Act. Any application that is in the pipeline now will be dealt with by the tests laid out in 2005, I think it was. If there was to be any change to those tests, the Government would signal that ahead of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208d6ce30003849d5bacea66a516f6ee5\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: What signal is his Government sending to the world when he is on record as saying that we need to relax the rules on foreign investment, while John Key has been saying just the opposite, or is this merely another example of the Government belatedly agreeing with the Labour Party position, as it also seems to be doing on savings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d09dacebe7254b7595c125f6f777e4ae\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is another example of the member\u2019s shallow analysis and political manipulation of statements. The Government\u2019s review of the Overseas Investment Act was always aimed at reducing the time, cost, and uncertainty of the decision-making process, and that continues to be an objective of the Government. In fact, we have achieved quite a bit of reduction in the bureaucracy associated with that process over the last 18 months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df3cef014e404976b4a27791192e722d\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: When will the Minister release the long-awaited review of foreign investment, which was announced 17 months ago, or is this just another example of a Government that has polled itself to a standstill because it has no coherent plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aca3713d8fd34ef39ed68f96c1f0fb02\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is an example of a Government that has been so busy with its bold and wide-ranging plan that this matter of lower priority will appear when we are ready.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223ed62e55c2eb4142a49d4b44788c90ac\u0022\u003EWages\u2014Real After-tax Growth\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022 data-id=\u0022b471ca7b293a495b889d89237d50112c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b471ca7b293a495b889d89237d50112c\u0022\u003EAARON GILMORE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Have New Zealand\u2019s after-tax wages been rising faster than prices?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022986d9e61bb1c48d982a89fa04a7c66dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022986d9e61bb1c48d982a89fa04a7c66dd\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. Since September 2008 real after-tax wages in New Zealand have risen 8.7 percent, in less than 2 years since that time. This calculation is based on Statistics New Zealand\u2019s quarterly employment survey data on average weekly ordinary-time earnings. It is the same series that is used for calculating the annual adjustments to national superannuation. Treasury forecasts show that real after-tax wages are expected to grow by around 1 percent per year, each year over the next 4 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d36e5e4d9114b1da2edc9737f4eb639\u0022\u003EAaron Gilmore\u003C/span\u003E: How does real after-tax wage growth in New Zealand compare with that in Australia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff5e7f6bc7094ba0b73096697d458bda\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As the House will be aware, real after-tax wages in New Zealand grew by only 3 percent in the 9 years from 1999 to September 2008. The comparable series for Australia shows that in that same period where real after-tax wages grew 3 percent in New Zealand from 1999 to 2008, in Australia they grew by 19 percent. It was 3 percent in New Zealand and 19 percent in Australia, and that record under the previous Labour Government is one of the reasons for the wage gap between Australia and New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ed30067fd6a4ee9af14745854143dfb\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Does his figure that real after-tax wages have grown by 8.7 percent over the past 2 years include Labour\u2019s 2008 October tax cut; if so, why is he taking credit for a tax cut he voted against?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290211fb8c46a430482df9c5e2e6b69c1\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It does include Labour\u2019s tax cut, and we have always made that clear. The reason is that Labour did that tax cut only because we made them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ba5c771be4647c289582ff0b4fbfa8c\u0022\u003EAaron Gilmore\u003C/span\u003E: What has happened to real after-tax wages in New Zealand and Australia since 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f588258436aa4d1797bb0bfdb09a2976\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, since September 2008 real after-tax wages have grown by 8.7 percent in New Zealand. In the same period, real after-tax wages in Australia have grown by 4.8 percent. That is because Australia has had significantly higher inflation than New Zealand and it has had smaller tax cuts than in New Zealand. So the gap has actually narrowed slightly. However, we are not getting excited about it. The damage done by the previous Government is so significant it will take a good 10 years or so to really make significant progress in closing up that gap. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc31c6ac6c094cafacfd6dad33630819\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that, based on figures he quoted last week, over his period in office real after-tax wages in the private sector have increased by only 1.3 percent, and Treasury says that the increase in GST will push inflation to close to 6 percent; if so, how many people does he expect will get a 6 percent wage increase next year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6cf5f51f2414db7b9fa936783ddd264\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot confirm whether it is 1.3 percent but if it is, then in 18 months we have achieved half of the increase in the real after-tax wage that Labour achieved in 9 years. So 1.3 percent is pretty good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c810e6731f164fa6ba17a7198d23b0f9\u0022\u003EAaron Gilmore\u003C/span\u003E: What economic policies would put future increases in New Zealand wages at risk?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a851d1759664d5dbbcd3006fc818f7a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The policies that would put further increases in New Zealand\u2019s real wages at risk would be the same ones that did so much damage to them in the last decade\u2014that is, soaring Government spending, a withering export sector, a bloated Public Service, excessive borrowing for speculation in housing, and an economic policy that undermined the productive capacity of the nation. This Government has turned round all of those things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f60e08ab84f74142a87e3d12c9b3f8c7\u0022\u003ESuperannuation\u2014Compulsory KiwiSaver\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u00225fe4fdc64e1a4e8ebdbf31752acb7937\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225fe4fdc64e1a4e8ebdbf31752acb7937\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Has he ever ruled out compulsory KiwiSaver; if so, is that still his position?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00224a69b4fb6a574189bb498e80cdd7caa6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a69b4fb6a574189bb498e80cdd7caa6\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I cannot recollect every statement I have made on New Zealand superannuation, having been involved as a politician in this issue for 20 years now. The Government has an open mind, and it has set up the Savings Working Group to explore all options, including Government savings, improvements to the tax system and its effect on savings, and the development of KiwiSaver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229490d279f77a4bfe824dec575df6156d\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, did he tell a constituent less than 1 year ago: \u201CI note your comment that KiwiSaver should be made compulsory or the contribution rate returned to 4 percent. The Government does not support either of these options.\u201D; and when did he change his mind and decide it was an option worth considering?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216ff18c76f044100ae850ed767964b58\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member will be aware that National put together a significant tax package in Opposition, which we implemented soon after we were re-elected, that included changes to KiwiSaver. The letter to my constituent accurately quotes the Government position, and it remains the Government position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a68f3e07b8cc4d15963ef4d589e07502\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: If savings options from the working group must be fiscally neutral, must increased savings, then, come from either households or businesses, or both?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9ad8a51333447b39e1d41fadc1f7945\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There is an iron rule about saving, and that is one can save more only if one spends less. That is how savings works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d5f33a11ec84eb6bc2b5269e5815fdf\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Taking your advice from yesterday, I asked an absolutely straight question: given that the Minister had said that savings options must be fiscally neutral, must the savings, therefore, come from households or businesses, or both? The Minister did not address that either/or trade-off, at all. He needed either to confirm or not to confirm. It was quite simple.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ef6810aade047b8a6ca74224ad1ffae\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Ministers have never been forced to confirm what members might like them to confirm. The member asked whether the policy was for savings to be fiscally neutral, and I think the Minister responded to that part of the question. He said that the only way that savings could be achieved was if spending was reduced, which seemed to agree with the first part of the member\u2019s question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e9f44641d334c8e9251dbbbd6a6ebaa\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022492d1bc55665424abe23c1ca26f0c39a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear the honourable member further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccc380ae1f68494f83ee595944f5d80e\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate that. The first clause of the question was not the question; it was the presupposition: \u201CIf savings options \u2026 must be fiscally neutral,\u201D. The question then asked whether it must therefore be true that increased savings have to come from households or businesses, or both. He did not address the operative part of the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b190f17316a241a39fd22841fdef8986\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the Minister\u2019s answer pointed out that the only way savings can be achieved is if spending is less. I imagine that means spending right across the economy. The member has further supplementary questions to use if he wants. I do not believe that the Minister evaded the question. The answer may not have been exactly the answer the member wanted, but he does have further supplementary questions. In fact, I will let him ask a supplementary question before I accept one from the other side. No?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcc07f201ced4a089fa24d09486704c3\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: What impact has KiwiSaver made on national savings in recent years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bead10ee688a400798cbca42cd815016\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I expect that the impact will be one of the issues debated by the Savings Working Group. There is no doubt that for some individuals it has increased their savings, but it is not obvious that it has made an immeasurable difference to national savings. In fact, it has become clear that during the period when the New Zealand Superannuation Fund was set up and KiwiSaver was set up, New Zealand ended up with record balance of payments deficits, averaging over 8 percent of GDP per year, and foreign liabilities climbed from $100 billion to $170 billion. That is why we believe that it is somewhat simplistic to think that higher household savings naturally means higher national savings. That is not necessarily the case. That is why the Savings Working Group has to look at national savings\u2014that is, savings by Government, households, and businesses, not just households.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e75b2dc0a82b4d4db93ea91be2693ffb\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister, then, confirm that one of his first acts on taking office was to reduce the level of incentives to save with KiwiSaver, and can he further confirm that the Government\u2019s very serious net international liabilities are overwhelmingly driven by private dissaving and the building up of housing debt, which his Government has done precious little to address?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022282f602794004c619a0ab7db60e7098a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: We do not claim to have addressed international liabilities directly. Certainly, the recession has had the effect of stopping household debt from rising. In answer to the member\u2019s question about our cutting KiwiSaver, we have put fewer incentives into KiwiSaver, which means the Government has smaller deficits, and the net effect on national saving is neutral.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224865bcc880bd473b8a901d34c5df7185\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: If, according to the Minister, the Government is able to save on the public\u2019s behalf, does he now take the position that the level of personal or household savings is irrelevant to the total national international debt?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285fe22aa05cc47b1aae6d6b02e0cc6f8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Clearly not; as I have said before, national savings are made up of the savings of households, Government, and business. I have made the point a number of times that the Government borrowing from overseas lenders in order to look like we are increasing savings in New Zealand simply does not make any sense. It does not increase our national savings, at all. We end up with a bit more household savings, but with more debt owed to foreigners. Eventually, foreigners will stop lending us money so that we can pretend we are increasing savings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223703f952d1574b5c99aef261002d0a27\u0022\u003EHealth Services\u2014Minister\u2019s Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00224891ee1898594059ae8b15b445718d66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224891ee1898594059ae8b15b445718d66\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by his statement \u201CBut when you are Minister of Health, part of making sure you know what is going on is making sure you are out there seeing things from a patient\u2019s perspective\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u00222ba14ab2b17c44e0b57457e62d13be3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ba14ab2b17c44e0b57457e62d13be3a\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, as Minister of Health I regularly visit rest homes, hospitals, general practitioners\u2019 clinics, and I speak with the public and patients.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227a6a29ae205448db37096122451d501\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Could I simply ask the Minister to repeat his answer for me, because I could not hear it at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad77bd82d76b419ba2bb72cbd6cafa2e\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e41f6c9f7d32441c96ae1eeaf474f897\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the Minister. On this occasion I would ask the Opposition, though they may be dazzled, to please keep the noise down so that I can hear what I am sure is an important answer to the Hon Ruth Dyson\u2019s question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec2a80a3bea144d081421d2f9bd30800\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, as Minister of Health I regularly visit rest homes, hospitals, general practitioners\u2019 clinics, and speak with the public and patients. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5f99ece6bb240008f2ad13e1d4002dd\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he not consider the perspective of 94-year-old St Kilda pensioner John Currie, who says nervous exhaustion through worry about the cuts to his home help have put him in Dunedin Hospital?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d214342843be4a11a1d482b258ccd047\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of that case. I would say that the district health board has assured me that no one will be unsafe or forced out of his or her home because of the changes made to home support. I understand that the district health board has been in touch with Mr Currie, and other facts were revealed in the article today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd5be729cccb44c283f931129abcdd29\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Which mental health patients did he seek out for their perspectives on the $5 million cut to community-based mental health services in Wellington this year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d09d5b20250944e497e09143160f4f8f\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I think the people whom I have spoken to who are involved in mental health are very impressed that $174 million extra will be put into mental health services over the next 4 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5bfb0812a5743938cccd5884f446852\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he had in relation to the patients\u2019 perspective on improved ambulance services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd0bf28b231a46fd85843088ca5e327f\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I can inform the House that as part of the Government\u2019s $48 million extra investment over 4 years to support the national ambulance service, there are now an extra 100 paramedics on the health front line. This means more communities have 7-day-a-week, 24-hour reliance on volunteer staffers for cover reduced, and the average number of ambulances available both during the day and at night has increased. We now have extra paramedics in more than 40 centres throughout the nation\u2014from Dargaville in the north, to Gore in the south\u2014supporting better and safer front-line services for New Zealand patients.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a1ab9baa9054bfbae981c3d7ed2276f\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: What children and young people did he seek for their perspective on the fact that South Canterbury District Health Board is cutting its child and youth oral health services by $1.2 million this year\u2014cuts signed off by the Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af1150c30d354e269304282898c654c8\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: What is quite clear in the South Canterbury area is that they have had additional funding of $11 million in the last 18 months, and the district health board is improving front-line services for people in that area quite strongly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240537c1f61c147f6b85b64ee529d4a2c\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: If he is concerned about seeing things from the patients\u2019 perspective will he use his ministerial powers on behalf of Otago and Southland patients to keep their neurosurgical services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d34848049d51491495521d8c0e9a9d52\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: As the member well knows, all of the South Island district health boards are aware that they have to fix the situation at Otago-Southland. In the last term of the previous Government three neurosurgeons left the hospital. We know that a patient recently explained that she had had three locum neurosurgeons in 4 months. The district health boards cannot agree on the service network across the South Island. They have asked the director-general to arbitrate. An independent panel is looking at this case. I have to say that, like the people of Otago-Southland, I have to be convinced that they do not deserve good-quality neurosurgical services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022983ee47184b844faa9096677a0c57cc3\u0022\u003ETruancy\u2014Progress in Addressing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2f7ba95dea147d7b510d233b425409d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2f7ba95dea147d7b510d233b425409d\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What progress has been made on the Government\u2019s commitment to tackle school truancy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002204b30c89b5274a25943d624040d4a0d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204b30c89b5274a25943d624040d4a0d3\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E This Government is committed to addressing school truancy. I am happy to report that focused action and a boost in funding\u2014that is, for the Non-enrolment Truancy Service\u2014have reduced the number of students not enrolled in school from 3,416 in January this year to 2,192 today. That is a fantastic reduction of 36 percent. In addition the time taken to re-enrol students who have not attended school for the past 20 days has also decreased by 14 percent over the last year. This is a fantastic start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022111c897fcf764fcb90deb72ccb7678b7\u0022\u003EHekia Parata\u003C/span\u003E: What other work is under way to support schools to manage student attendance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7c0fda1e39f4b67892c6955d3686a5b\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am pleased to advise that last week the Ministry of Education released long-requested guidelines for schools on the management of non-attendance and, where necessary, the prosecution of parents who fail to ensure that their children attend school. The ministry will also fund schools to undertake such prosecutions where necessary. Schools have been asking for this for years; this Government has listened to them and acted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c59f1bf85cbf4cd0816c5a7eb0066f20\u0022\u003EDefence, Associate Minister\u2014Performance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022 data-id=\u00222401828ae6474cbaac42f17cd9487652\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222401828ae6474cbaac42f17cd9487652\u0022\u003EHon PETE HODGSON (Labour\u2014Dunedin North)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Defence: Did he raise concerns about the performance of the former Associate Minister of Defence with the Hon Rodney Hide; if so, did he inform the Prime Minister about those concerns?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u00226c259348b5ca4f24ac203ce41bdad76a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c259348b5ca4f24ac203ce41bdad76a\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E In reply to the question, may I say this: no, I did not have concerns about the former Associate Minister\u2019s performance. However, I did have concerns about inappropriate language in two documents generated from the former Associate Minister\u2019s office, which I did raise with Mr Hide. It was not necessary to raise those issues with the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278317c5338a0400a8f9be469feb30a04\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: Was he \u201Cinformed by a National Party activist that ACT Board Member Nick Kearney has a copy of\u201D a Cabinet paper entitled Defence Assessment, dated 2010, as the former Associate Minister of Defence wrote last week; if so, did he advise the Minister in charge of the NZ Security Intelligence Service?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216374fffa43948b9adcd8de755b04723\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: I actually have asked Mr Kearney about that, and, no, he does not have such a document. I am absolutely confident that there has been no inappropriate treatment of documents held in the former Associate Minister\u2019s office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b11de97344b9435297be6c337e4408e4\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: Did he or his staff raise any security issues regarding ACT Ministers or their staff with the Prime Minister or his staff; if so, what and when?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213f4abc876944fd38e3818b23a8f1b08\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: There was an occasion when I was given some information by Mr Hide, which is now in the public domain. I ensured that that was raised with Ministerial Services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203f3d4b9704949d5af543df1acf7d02e\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: What might he have said to his former Associate Minister of Defence that caused\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ce60a3c9e844b53bae5f01fc79e9a4a\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I will help the member by saying he surely cannot have a question that asks what a Minister might have said. The Minister either said it or did not say it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212fdb68909544197baf28ed05d269111\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: He could have said \u201CWhat did you have for lunch today?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af4ffa36415a41d39166264bb72e7085\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate the assistance of the honourable Leader of the House, but this is a point of order. Members these days are entitled, under the Standing Orders, to ask questions that are speculative like that, as long as they are not outrageous. They must not contain any outrageous content, and I ask the member to be careful of that. I think we should hear his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e6495af58214f9cb31a39d7a7203f87\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: What might he have said to his former Associate Minister of Defence that caused her to write on a document dated 17 August: \u201CThe Minister of Defence believes Rodney Hide has passed this paper on and he is upset that he could not trust a Ministerial colleague to keep a paper he gave him to himself.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022375b205738254e03a5482830e3c56cf3\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing of that nature was said. In fact, I received a phone call from somebody else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dbe5d1077734617a176793d2fdb1928\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: Was his former Associate Minister of Defence broadly correct when she wrote on 17 August: \u201CRodney Hide also told Wayne Mapp that he wanted me removed from my Associate Defence Minister role. Wayne Mapp told me, subsequently, he protested vigorously about that saying that we (Mapp and I) were an effective team and I was well regarded by his colleagues in the Defence Force.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022426b5efc28ae40379a78d22847a9125b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I simply could not hear that question at all. Because I could not hear the question with the level of interjection, on this occasion from National backbenchers, I cannot determine whether the question was in order. I have to be able to hear the question. I ask the member to repeat it, but I ask him to keep it short and to make it no longer than is necessary to make the question clear. It should not contain further material than is necessary to make the question clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213b590793b8f48868f77a3bf5f070876\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: Was his former Associate Minister of Defence broadly correct when she wrote on 17 August: \u201CRodney Hide also told Wayne Mapp that he wanted me removed from my Associate Defence Minister role. Wayne Mapp told me, subsequently, he protested vigorously about that saying that we (Mapp and I) were an effective team and I was well regarded by his colleagues in the Defence Force.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee8f89512a1945888f859f041e2619c9\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: I have no ministerial responsibility for anything in an internal document from the ACT Party, but I can say the Associate Minister and I had an effective working relationship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f83352e285546c98c768d1dc39cc5dc\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Acknowledging that the last part of the question was answered, I take issue with the idea that the Minister of Defence has no obligation to address a question about comments made around him by his former Associate Minister. Of course he is responsible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222a840bdbd4541be9e83a10a5c31ac31\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A serious and interesting issue has been raised. The Minister has responsibility for statements in respect of defence made by the Associate Minister; there is no question about that. The question here is whether the document that is being referred to contains information written in the capacity of a person as Associate Minister of Defence. Maybe I need to seek a little further advice on that. At the end of the day I have to be guided by Ministers as to whether they have ministerial responsibility, but then the balancing issue there is that I cannot allow Ministers simply to claim that they do not have ministerial responsibility for something that they do have ministerial responsibility for. On this occasion I probably have to take the Minister\u2019s word for it at the moment and undertake to look into the matter for the honourable member, because I do not want to rule incorrectly on something that has some significance. Ministerial responsibility is important; Ministers are responsible for what Associate Ministers say in their capacity as Associate Ministers. As to what they say in their capacity as ordinary members of Parliament, I am not clear about that. I undertake that I will look into the matter further and come back to the honourable member. If, in fact, I need to come back to the House, I will do so; otherwise, I will come back to the honourable member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251a26faf9bd54cacb1117442a4f5e285\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Does he believe that the issues that the Minister raised with me were appropriate to raise with me, and does he believe that I handled the issues that he raised entirely appropriately? [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022567bc27ede824784ad59d6402e4e7ab2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A serious question has been asked. This is a matter of some substance, and I think the Minister should be given the courtesy of being able to reply on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266c4ece81b284cb1bf42947cfd7225d3\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am very interested in what this answer will be, but, just so that we are clear, I ask you for clarification. Are you ruling that this Minister has ministerial responsibility for the behaviour of Rodney Hide?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267c01d13c9b8407f83d1da9327aa00e6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014not at all. The Minister was asked about whether he felt that his comments, his advice to another Minister, had been treated appropriately. As a Minister I think he has certainly a reporting responsibility for that. I do not think that is unreasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0c314ca9ce845289cbb3cab49568b76\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do acknowledge the possibility that the Minister of Local Government has an interest in this or that aspect of defence, but it is more likely, it seems, that in Mr Hide\u2019s conversation with the Minister of Defence, Mr Hide was acting in his capacity as the leader of the ACT Party. The Minister of Defence has no responsibility for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224a7107dbe134f64ba02c2fbf93022b4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear the Hon Rodney Hide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb6ed9a4c18f42b9a5af61f36b17b2d0\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister clearly was acting as the Minister of Defence. The Minister of Defence raised issues with me. I am asking as a member of Parliament whether he believed he did the appropriate thing as the Minister of Defence by raising them with me. And I am asking him as the Minister of Defence whether he believed that my response was entirely appropriate. That is a question from a member of Parliament to a Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240c0d34228084117b9adac9d6b5ae163\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re not interested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4800e8a6982442db98efbfd6650bf99\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not care which member of the Labour front bench is not interested; I as Speaker am interested. I think the point made by the Hon Rodney Hide is not unreasonable. What he has asked, as a member of the House, is whether the Minister of Defence feels that what he said to him as the Minister of Defence was treated appropriately. The Minister is not being asked to comment on something that a member of Parliament has said publicly\u2014that would not be his responsibility\u2014but simply on whether his communications were treated, in his view as Minister of Defence, appropriately. I realise that there is a fine line with these things, and I acknowledge that I am not finding this to be absolutely easy, but I think that is a reasonable question for the Minister to be asked to respond to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7d424d2a371450398f3a2b9753abdf0\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: To the extent that they were related to my areas of ministerial responsibility, yes, they were dealt with appropriately by both me and Mr Hide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c4e47f0d1d3480fba79821fab24b0ce\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. In respect of the issue that you may report back to the House on, it seems to me that the Minister, in response to that question from Mr Hide, actually showed that he had ministerial responsibility in respect of the earlier issues. If it was within his responsibility to answer that question from Mr Hide, how can that be different from the answers that he was asked to give in respect of Mr Hodgson\u2019s questions about other comments made to him in his capacity as Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab9c29863e0f4aef8978e77793c6628d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear the Hon Rodney Hide, but I do not want to take too much further time on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba27b5193af446cda3c7d48d41e42a0e\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate that. Mr Speaker, the questions that I asked were actually about the behaviour of the Minister of Defence and about his opinion on whether he thought the response of someone else was appropriate. The question that the Opposition was asking was actually about a document that the Minister of Defence had no hand in preparing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e85f7a8bbccd43d4a6d01f13713a6316\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245a32d826ab54e6881c1bc7ed7d60e39\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not want to spend more time on this. I have undertaken that I will look into the matter. I am satisfied about that last question; I think that the Minister of Defence has responsibility for what he says to other members, and that to question him on whether he is happy with the way they have treated that information is not unreasonable. The Minister certainly has responsibility for anything that the Associate Minister says as Associate Minister. What I want to look into further\u2014because this is an important matter\u2014is whether a document being referred to was prepared by the Minister as Associate Minister or as a member of a political party. We well know in this House that there is a difference between a Minister acting in his or her role as Minister, and a Minister acting in his or her role as a member\u2014in some cases, the leader\u2014of a political party. I think this issue is important enough for me to satisfy myself on the basis of the proper way of looking at it. I do not want to give an incorrect ruling to the House; I promised the honourable member Pete Hodgson I will investigate the matter. If it is important for the House, I will come back to the House on it; otherwise, I will come back to the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fff3684ad81496db2287ce0fbccced7\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you for that clarification. I suppose the point I was trying to make is that the point that Mr Hodgson was making was not about the source of the quote that was being put to the Minister, which was the subsequently prepared document. He was actually questioning the Minister in respect of the statement as recorded in that document, which was a statement put to the Minister in his capacity as the Minister, according to that later document. So it is not the later document\u2014that is just the source of the information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226770d0fe654f43b98ce32d0798a91db9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is simply relitigating the issue. I have acknowledged that I need to satisfy myself as to the status of such a document. Whether it quotes anyone is irrelevant if the document does not relate to a Minister. If it relates to a private member, especially in respect of political party matters, then I suggest that, on the face of it, it is not a matter for which a Minister can be responsible, even if such a document quotes the Minister. If a Minister says he or she is not responsible for what that document contains, then that would, on the face of it, be the end of the matter. But I want to look into it, to make sure that my instincts are not wrong. They may well be wrong, and I am prepared to accept that I may be wrong. I will certainly come back to the member who asked the question, and if the matter has importance for the House I will come back to the House on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022269d103970f34e2798cdd19cbe10cdb1\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267d33c31c9fb45558bfea840826dc11a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot imagine what the point of order is. I ask the Hon David Parker to be careful not to keep wasting the time of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221de187edbd66448ebae2092e0523f4a4\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps I did not explain myself clearly. The point I was making, with respect, was that what I think you have to consider does not relate to the source of the document that Heather Roy prepared, which is a subsequent document. The underlying issue that the Minister can be questioned on, in my submission, is the quote in that document, which is a quote of her earlier statement to the Minister of Defence. My submission is that the question for you to consider is whether the statements that Heather Roy said she made to the Minister are within the responsibility of the Minister\u2014not the later document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b0f9d42e7f94f9ab48c4ea7064e4b0f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is precisely what I have indicated I am prepared to look at further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd0131ee9c7c454cb0f35e47efe4bab4\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister of Defence satisfied that the concerns that he took to Ministerial Services were handled with the utmost professionalism, integrity, and competence by Ministerial Services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299e50bd3e76a4a3eba7b6ce61666441a\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: I passed them to Ministerial Services. Of course, they have their own standards as to whether they are appropriately handled. I cannot actually speak on behalf of Ministerial Services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bdb1096cdfa14deca440bad86cac5e3d\u0022\u003EBlue Cod Fishery, Marlborough\u2014Reopening\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u00227c59557f17fa4db49116406ddc5cd61f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c59557f17fa4db49116406ddc5cd61f\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture: What recent announcement has he made about the blue cod fishery in Marlborough?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u00225be17aee0f954426af9c5d3d25e499bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225be17aee0f954426af9c5d3d25e499bc\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday I announced the start of public consultation on the Marlborough Sounds Blue Cod Management Group\u2019s plan for reopening the fishery. The fishery was closed in October 2008 for 4 years due to sustainability issues and it is not due to reopen until 1 October 2012. However, in March last year I asked the group to develop a sustainable management plan for this fishery to enable it to be reopened sooner, if possible. It has now reported back with a number of specific recommendations and it is seeking public comment on these over the next 6 weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0280d2aa99f4a48913fa1a5ad17473f\u0022\u003EColin King\u003C/span\u003E: What were the objectives of the Blue Cod Management Group?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee9604249fa744a1bd6f4a7fb99a399a\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I support lifting or relaxing the closure early so that we can start fishing for blue cod again when we know that it is sustainable. It is important to me, though, that any management plan would see the fishery opening, either wholly or partially, sooner than 4 years; would be easy for fishers to understand; would be straightforward for the Ministry of Fisheries to police; and would require some sort of reporting so that the success of the opening can be monitored. The members of the Blue Cod Management Group did an awful lot of work and an awful lot of consultation, and on behalf of the community I thank them for their work. I look forward to the community\u2019s response to the proposals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ccb9a040a6c8431ab790068c8ef35bc6\u0022\u003ELabour, Department\u2014Statement of Intent\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u002237c48fdb896a4ef492a17172c5d5bf9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237c48fdb896a4ef492a17172c5d5bf9f\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: Does she agree with the statement in the Department of Labour\u2019s current statement of intent: \u201CNew Zealand\u2019s continued wealth will depend on the skills of its workers and how firms and industry support New Zealanders to work to their best potential. This is one of the biggest long-term challenges facing New Zealand\u2019s labour market and economy\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022933422cbd0a049b8b78d6585caf732fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022933422cbd0a049b8b78d6585caf732fe\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be2c711f2b0f474ba32b1f853ffc193a\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: In the light of that answer, has the skills forum launched by the Prime Minister in October of last year held its second meeting yet, at which it was supposed to set a work programme; if not, is the skills forum likely to meet and set a work programme by the first anniversary of its launch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265c1f36b7d81422396bb34f1f9b1767d\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member may be surprised to hear that it is not always necessary to have regular meetings and lots of strategies. This Government is about action. The skills forum meets as and when required. In fact, the Government has refocused the skills forum to deliver some very tangible improvements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a161bdc760c46b49290cfa47f42e909\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I ask members to be a little more courteous. It was extraordinarily hard to hear the Minister\u2019s answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220196380e1d8b46589d44943c19662aea\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: What message is the Minister sending about the importance of skills, when papers prepared for the Cabinet strategy committee discussion about establishing the skills forum noted \u201Can understanding that the Government will not be proposing a significant new work programme or allocating new money to initiatives\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea4160773a3440a58b8d7255d323ef75\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think the message we are sending is very clear, especially when one notes that education and skills are one of the Government\u2019s six main policy drivers under our economic growth agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7a2051483ae4af0a9ce1363602c449d\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that increasing the skills of our workforce is an essential element of improving productivity and closing the wage gap with Australia; if so, why is there no skills forum to speak of, no new money for workforce skills and training initiatives, and no comprehensive Government programme for skills development and workforce training?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c71f3f9f8054c5082a149d901e7d5b3\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: The skills forum, as I said before, meets as and when required. If the member had read my letter dated 12 August 2010, she would know that a significant amount of work has been, and continues to be, undertaken across the Government to address issues about the supply of, and demand for, skills, including implementation of the tertiary education strategy; implementation of a targeted review of qualifications; implementation of Youth Guarantee scheme trade academies and new trade academies; implementation of the Youth Opportunities package, including Job Ops and Community Max; launch of the Skills Highway website, which, I note, since July has had over 3,600 hits; establishment of the Employer Champions Forum\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203c4543ec2ed4cf1b458867d7f04c538\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220babd9ae50a5493c808f300d94569746\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014etc. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221585c5fe79124622826b0ea85550199b\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter from Minister Wilkinson to Minister Joyce in which she says: \u201CI aim to hold five further Skills Forum meetings this year, which are currently being diaried. The first of these is likely to be scheduled\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286ffa493d37a43cb844de711a0631217\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299c4a89acf9c45d6ac30ae87ee186136\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the page from a briefing to Minister Wilkinson that notes: \u201CCabinet strategy\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9c6675b93a04bca9bcfdef7df0d9ae2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is this apart from the briefing to the incoming Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf6334d8294f4a32b5c482e6c5dae75b\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is a Cabinet strategy committee discussion. It is a page from a briefing to Minister Wilkinson that notes that the Cabinet strategy committee discussed on 19 October \u201Chow much to use the new Skills Forum with Ministers concerned not to raise expectations amongst social partners\u201D, and \u201CAn understanding\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1a830aa58024e2fa6cf9ad4f226945e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec716a8684134d9cb60df261d6bd9a5e\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the draft key points and actions from the 17 December 2009 skills forum meeting, among which is the suggestion that the forum \u201Cshould include as an aim higher wages, higher skills, and a productive economy\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec9b5330910d4389ab47e735598dfa11\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d578f4a992db441caeebafef59dfedd1\u0022\u003EAlcohol Abuse, Reduction\u2014Alcohol Advertising\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d73a261aa8f14429a544d9e9bf3ecf20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d73a261aa8f14429a544d9e9bf3ecf20\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Is he confident he can reduce alcohol-related harm and youth binge drinking if the liquor and hospitality industries continue to spend $73 million a year promoting alcohol?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u00223c023dd4f364471389793b25a52dc969\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c023dd4f364471389793b25a52dc969\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Revenue)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dc302b5387f4cfc946f69b6a06e9024\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen research that 90 percent of 5 to 17-year-olds in New Zealand see at least one television alcohol advertisement every week, and that this exposure predisposes them to drinking, well before they are 18, and are not his reforms doomed to fail because they do nothing to reduce the saturation advertising of alcohol?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207090d4eaf08470597265e553ad336d8\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is aware of the research the member refers to. He is also aware of international evidence that is remarkably inconclusive on the impact of liquor advertising. With regard to the second part of the member\u2019s question, I point out that the Government has adopted stage one of the Law Commission\u2019s recommendations by extending the existing offence of promotion of excessive consumption to off-licences, and by making it an offence to promote alcohol in a way that will have a special appeal to those under the purchase age.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c2f0069a0d7452cbd6f7fa10a0a9092\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that alcohol sponsorship of sports, clubs, rock concerts, and other events helps to embed alcohol brands and products into the everyday lives of young New Zealanders; if so, why is his Government doing absolutely nothing to reduce alcohol sponsorship?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270492d1997b148779b771c5e26d96340\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: No, I cannot confirm that. It is a matter for those who undertake such sponsorship to indicate what their motives are. I have indicated in my primary and supplementary answers the steps the Government is taking in response to the Law Commission\u2019s report on the sale of liquor, which we believe will have a positive impact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241cd82cbc4354ad098d7c2455b2aa3c9\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table two documents. The first is \u201CCreating Intoxigenic Environments: Marketing Alcohol to Young People in Aotearoa New Zealand\u201D, published in the journal Social Science and Medicine, which documents the exposure of young New Zealanders to liquor advertising.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1d99a5834534a538c304bb0e1089b0c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2d13e9c32b94dd1a81f991aaf36770a\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: The second document is the \u201CRegulation of Alcohol Marketing: A Global View\u201D, published in the Journal of Public Health Policy, which shows that alcohol advertising predisposes young people to drink.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aa0b9f12fff4160be92907013579492\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3029eef5c2e4eef8188f7ea93cebe01\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I further seek leave to table a CD that contains a series of recent television advertisements for liquor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dca54a4d2c2d4889869b8711f3df9d5c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think we are going to table CDs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc5b43c611374c7ba23c0c7cbad65928\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am curious at the ruling that you would not allow MPs to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa47ac0646bf476483dd3a478cb55091\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member may be curious, but I have ruled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a1feb9f2e50473885bd53c6417177ba\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is the right of MPs to raise questions with you, and to bring\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cdc648f6ed8409aacd755672463ac17\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is not the right of members to dispute the ruling of the Speaker. The member will resume her seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b417a277ae241ed9ea3f0017c2beba1\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it your ruling that it is not permissible to table CDs in this House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022297e24c503b143d798fcd0bdade509bb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will not table CDs like that\u2014no, indeed not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9e9c8eb523c4fdeaa09a81f5e8f8cb8\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Oh! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb9147741a2a487d945c9e572956ee67\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have ruled on that. The member may not like it, but that is fine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a03562b23cc4198bdc4ffc6453aa971\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am just seeking clarification of your rulings. When you say \u201CCDs like that\u201D, what is the nature of the CD that makes it not table-able? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284632806760341309e6c7e7338c6d021\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Standing Orders provide for the tabling of documents, not for the tabling of CDs. If members want CDs tabled, they will need to change the Standing Orders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292e34c08e33d4c99a83cf7f4bbb6a83f\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a72db72e604a41bcbb9a26ed68c80405\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am struggling to understand the point of order. I say to the Hon David Parker that I have extended the courtesy of listening to his points of order earlier today. I will listen, but I want the point of order to be very clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a360ca8f1ab4d4ea5556695b1fdb7b5\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I ask you to consider carefully whether a document has to be a piece of paper in order to be tabled, because that is not my understanding of the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f184731b7ca54ddf9e29a719864db17e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is the way I have interpreted it, and that is the way it will be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262df255f36854c688449a7604974166a\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would like you to take into consideration your comment to David Parker, and that you gave him the courtesy of listening to his points of order, but that in my view you have not given me that same courtesy. I would like you to give that serious consideration, thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4af641a2bb04896ab0453b77773e768\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The reason why I have not is that the member was directly questioning my ruling, and that is not acceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e6284ad0048f41078844d3b4f71a5513\u0022\u003EAlcohol Excise\u2014Industry Input\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3f02354efe24e47bf10ad6e120ca629\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3f02354efe24e47bf10ad6e120ca629\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: What role did the alcohol industry play in ruling out an increase in excise duty, bearing in mind the Ministry of Justice analysis notes \u201Ca rule of thumb is that a 10 percent price rise results in an approximately 5 percent decrease in consumption\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022135cea03ebe24b30bc6115c6c94a40ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022135cea03ebe24b30bc6115c6c94a40ef\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Revenue)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: None. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286106647d4ef44cf806192b0f192cac9\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with this morning\u2019s Dominion Post that \u201CThe Government, as it did when deciding not to reduce the drink-drive level, has opted for the immediately popular course rather than what is best for a country with too many binge-drinkers.\u201D; if not, how will the serious harm caused by binge drinking be addressed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4ad133dcbda467db21686f65f3b06fc\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not agree with the Dominion Post. I note that the Government has adopted 126 of 153 recommendations from the Law Commission. It is making changes to the laws regarding bar hours, off-licence trading, liquor advertising, and the minimum purchase age. I think those changes would constitute a pretty comprehensive response to the situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225588a035e7c14399b6881a57fb4a992f\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his comment that \u201Cthe pendulum has swung too far towards relaxation of alcohol laws.\u201D; if so, how can the Government justify the continued liquor exemptions for canteens run by the police, the Fire Service, and the Defence Force, permanent charter clubs, and Cosmopolitan and Working Men\u2019s Clubs? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229114939fbf4e46d69ca4a147ac587bbc\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot comment on the Minister\u2019s reported comment, although I personally would agree with it. With regard to the second part of the member\u2019s question, the focus of the Government\u2019s response to the Law Commission\u2019s report has been to deal with those areas that are deemed to be of prime concern in terms of the binge drinking habits of young New Zealanders. The circumstances that she mentioned simply do not relate to those situations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee11b868fb6e47cebf8908e91c8e70de\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that a minimum price regime would directly target cheap alcohol, which is preferred by heavy and young drinkers, without having a big effect on moderate drinkers; if so, why did he not include that in the package yesterday; if not, why did he say so in the Cabinet paper?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022964c0c185c5446e89c6c05ebfce961ea\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has responded to what is seen as one of the prime areas of alcohol use by young binge-drinkers, the ready-to-drink, or RTD, mixtures, with changes to the maximum alcohol content and to the number of standard drinks in a container. We see that as being an appropriate response to the circumstances that the member has outlined. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab08e6adee304109a2198b484b4d3644\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question specifically referred to targeting cheap alcohol, which is preferred by heavy and young drinkers. The Minister turned to a completely different subject. My question was on price, which was related to the primary question; his answer had nothing to do with price, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c04f5c6d35c4a20bf7031f60e76c918\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear the Hon Peter Dunne.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0a2f4e272a0425a9f65cc48505b82ef\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: The point I was alluding to in the answer was that ready-to-drinks are a common drink used by young people. By changing the alcohol content and restricting the size one will have an impact on price, which was the point the member was raising in her question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcd2803be42d4d76a1776707d0caa9a0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I confess that I did not pick up the exact intent of the member\u2019s question. Because the member was serious about her question, I will invite her to repeat it so that we can all hear it very carefully. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a06b90adc8c044deba6ec253e5f0df7a\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that a minimum price regime would directly target cheap alcohol, which is preferred by heavy and young drinkers, without having a big effect on moderate drinkers; if so, why did he not include that in the package he announced; if not, why does he say so in the Cabinet paper?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f33a196f7b9e4fc7a1feb990b3bd2a8c\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: No. With regard to the second part of the question, a number of international studies are around at the moment\u2014and I refer the member to what is going on in Scotland at this stage\u2014where the jury is still out on the impact of those measures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022038f8d6435d64a5fa2dae755ad9c1d73\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc46a6cbd3944602bd75ddcfdabcacb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc46a6cbd3944602bd75ddcfdabcacb5\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would like to refer you to Hansard, Volume 660, at page 8723, where Mr Phil Goff sought the leave of the House to table a DVD in which the Prime Minister was discussing GST. That leave was put to the House, there was no objection, and the document\u2014the DVD\u2014was tabled under your ruling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4d2a09b174b1d93ec1f2b9996d18d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am trying to say to the honourable member that the House is getting back into the habit of wasting time on tabling documents. I am trying to get some control over that, and I do not want to see the House tabling DVDs, CDs, or whatever. The Standing Order provides for documents to be tabled for the information of members. If members want to widen that to table other things such as CDs or DVDs, they will need, in my view, to change the Standing Order. That is the way I am interpreting it. If, in fact, I have today deviated from what I have done in the past, I apologise to the House, but I believe that I am acting with good intent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b5a94bb5dc04b62b95b5ba9347fbccc\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bffd08104e0844988f480a3d348c3cd9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to talk to the member about it privately, but I do not want to take the time of the House on something so trivial. Let me say why. The Standing Orders provide for the tabling of documents on the rare occasion where members of this House would benefit from information being made available to them by the tabling of documents. A practice has developed over the years where members make a political statement in asking a question, and when the Minister makes a political statement in return, the member seeks leave to table a document to prove that his or her political statement was correct. That is not how question time should be conducted, and I am not going to support that kind of approach to question time. I will check for the honourable member exactly when that ruling was made, but I do not want to go back to the previous practice. Members will recollect that there have been times when members have sought to table all sorts of things in this House. I have managed to constrain tabling to documents that are not readily available to members. I do not want to see it expanded again with attempts to table DVDs, CDs, and that kind of thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022737bd6a428c64a5298e0c1963545b638\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4dedfe4572b464787530833cb2b4047\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not intend to take the matter further. I will hear very briefly from the Hon David Cunliffe, and then Metiria Turei, and that will be the end of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022c478398320084fb78ea917032caf1800\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c478398320084fb78ea917032caf1800\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. In support of your previous ruling, it might assist the progress of the House if, in giving further consideration to this matter, you consider whether the content of the medium\u2014whether it is a DVD, a document, or a piece of paper\u2014might advise and inform your ruling. In particular, you might consider whether the particular content might not be available to members in any other form\u2014for example, a recording or a television clip that might not normally be available to the House. Your consideration might conclude that that would be in keeping with certain legislation that deems that the technology-neutral approach should hold in such matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6d4a0d154e7477a96e6276425201fda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6d4a0d154e7477a96e6276425201fda\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, given that you already have once this year allowed for leave to be sought to table a DVD, I would ask that until the issue is considered by you, perhaps in discussion, you continue to act on your precedent and allow the seeking of leave to table the CD I have, given that it has information that it is of use to the House, import to members, and relevant to the question concerned. If your ruling or the Standing Orders are to be changed, we would then do that later, but there should be equal treatment by you of all MPs and their right to seek leave to table documents in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229cc9470d65e948648b18ed121f2bc299\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cc9470d65e948648b18ed121f2bc299\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I do not want to prolong things, at all, but I think the Hon David Cunliffe made a good point: it does go to the question of content. The DVD that has been quoted today as having been allowed to be laid on the Table of the House by the Hon Phil Goff clearly involved the engagement of a politician, and therefore was of moment to the House. This CD is a collection of television ads, and if people want to see them, they should turn on the button of their TV. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0c5541f3d5446159623bb8f16bd9dd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0c5541f3d5446159623bb8f16bd9dd4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not intend to take any further time on this matter today. I have ruled on the matter, and that is the end of it. I am happy to give consideration to my ruling today, but I do make it clear that a document is a piece of paper. If anyone wants to check the dictionary definition of \u201Cdocument\u201D, he or she is welcome to do so. What is more, if there is information on a video clip, it is easy to get a transcript of what is said on it. I do not want to see this House wasting more time on members\u2019 tabling all and sundry. The House wastes quite enough time on the political point-scoring of tabling documents. That is not what this House is about. This House in question time is about asking good questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022abad2a2fa4c147c5ba2a2cf63298ce65\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation\u2014Rehabilitation Rates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00227596bc1b4ac84b27b299524c94ce051b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227596bc1b4ac84b27b299524c94ce051b\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for ACC: What initiatives has the Accident Compensation Corporation undertaken to improve rehabilitation rates, and what reports has he received on the success of these programmes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002281f29e140c624e7894151ebe319eec8f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281f29e140c624e7894151ebe319eec8f\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E Over the last 18 months the corporation has been working very hard to improve rehabilitation rates, with more effective triaging of claims; specialist case management, such as the Recover Independence Service; and the National Serious Injury Service. New services have also been developed to improve rehabilitation outcomes, such as Stay at Work, and Better at Work, and the comprehensive vocational rehabilitation service. Those changes have delivered a dramatic turn-round in rehabilitation rates across all of the accounts of the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC), which consistently show improvements at the 3-month, 6-month, 9-month, and 12-month rehabilitation reporting times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223266d1aeb136423899bc3d0fa2a81ed3\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: How do those rehabilitation rates compare with the record of the last 6 years? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba4985d57f474187a00fe8e577684a43\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: When I look at the 6-month rehabilitation rate, it shows a decline from 86 percent in 2004 to 85 percent in 2005, 84 percent in 2006, 83 percent in 2007, and 82 percent in 2008. Over the last 18 months we have been able to undo at least 4 years of that trend, with a 3 percent improvement in those rehabilitation rates. I point out to the House that a 1 percent change in the rehabilitation rate changes the liabilities by $500 million. That is one of the reasons we have seen such a dramatic turn-round in accident compensation finances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246dd1aba1efb43379c70f56f044b28ea\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: How confident is the Minister that ongoing improvements in rehabilitation rates can be achieved? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287da789b5a1b4d8cbbe73c1fe86b0bcf\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I am confident, because the board, the management, and the staff of ACC throughout New Zealand recognise how important rehabilitation is to both claimants and levy payers. All members of this House should welcome the improved rehabilitation, which enables people to get back to work and get their lives back to normal after an accident, and that is why I think everyone in this House should congratulate ACC on the significant improvements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228aae31f0405742edbf6b725d2b690228\u0022\u003EQuestions to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ade4d3c2299145968d7fd8514bb70bb1\u0022\u003ESale of Liquor (Objections to Applications) Amendment Bill\u2014Report-back Date\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9c9dafd657b40a39a8710cdb8338403\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS (Labour\u2014Manurewa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Social Services Committee: When will the Sale of Liquor (Objections to Applications) Amendment Bill be reported back to the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u00228f2a1820c0f54afc8ca7cf827d5ed913\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f2a1820c0f54afc8ca7cf827d5ed913\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (Chairperson of the Social Services Committee):\u003C/span\u003E The committee\u2019s report on the bill was presented this morning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a99adbebb4f4eeea8fdddb6821f06cf\u0022\u003EHon George Hawkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did it take over 2 years for the committee to reach a decision? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226164bd5e41714d96b12c2e1fae9ce9d4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a matter for the chair. The decisions of the committee are not the responsibility of the chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224356d15325994102bf0f89d094ea09d8\u0022\u003ESale of Liquor (Objections to Applications) Amendment Bill\u2014Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cb9695db3944e6e8bff7d555dfc61c1\u0022\u003EHon GEORGE HAWKINS (Labour\u2014Manurewa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Social Services Committee: How many submissions did the committee hear on the Sale of Liquor (Objections to Applications) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u00227baf6bcf45e947109c486fac62993c07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227baf6bcf45e947109c486fac62993c07\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (Chairperson of the Social Services Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Technically, the bill is no longer before the select committee, but I can inform the House that 10 submissions were heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228e686b62-8dc4-4f03-a7b6-2d0f9c874e9a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4d5e74e52e64b99a2d5576f6822de0d\u0022\u003EHon George Hawkins\u003C/span\u003E: How many oral submissions were not heard by the select committee, and what was the reason for that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af27ae29f9024ad79720768f525bcb80\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure that asking how many oral submissions were not heard can be a logical question. If they were not heard orally, they were not oral submissions. The second part of the question is out of order because the reason that the submissions were not heard is not the chair\u2019s responsibility; it is a matter for the committee. I therefore have to rule the question out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227955417403d64ff39b13198980627571\u0022\u003ELand Transport (Driver Licensing) Amendment Bill\u2014Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022446930ae87054ff3ba0d944b6fe64ad7\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee: When will the committee hear submissions on the Land Transport (Driver Licensing) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00220bfbb76f32c84d06b3c3e3897a526f78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220bfbb76f32c84d06b3c3e3897a526f78\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee):\u003C/span\u003E The committee has not called for submissions on that bill yet, so it is not possible to say when submissions may be heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210b91e87d4c6461083732ee39557eb07\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: On what date during the term of the previous Government was this bill to lift the driving age referred to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee for consideration?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0a6ac5893e244b3bc46833cc8c02dd5\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I would have to refer back to the minutes to see the actual date, but the report-back date of the bill is 24 December.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b464b516c5ea4a42ad1fa8fdb29bfb62\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The chairperson did a very good job of repeating my question back to me telling me what I had asked him. I was still aware of that because it had been just a momentary second since I had asked him. I asked him the date on which the bill was referred to the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204f07673cabf47b1905103379728ad8d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate that the member asked a fair question, but the chair of the committee does not have that particular information with him. It is not unreasonable that he does not answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4f54636ab5f4d7f830b133eebd6fc9f\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: We do have date, just reflecting on it. It was 18 October 2007.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002275497e5993604f3faf64d9e97271b117\u0022\u003ETaxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002261616c9933594f8f8a230a0287e6b702\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000633\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022213d6a2237e9446eb381c51335ecbb5c\u0022\u003EPart 1 to 5, schedules 1 and 2, and clauses 1 and 2 (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022d25ce6b1118c49568250c6fb648c4473\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d25ce6b1118c49568250c6fb648c4473\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E What an opportunity this Government has with the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill, which is before the Committee. It has the opportunity to show New Zealanders who are struggling at this time that it cares about them, and that it can do something to alleviate the stress and strain that is on the family budget at this time. But I do not believe that the Government is listening to the public of New Zealand. Just one month ago in this Chamber, I asked the Prime Minister about the effect that a rise in GST would have on some of the basics that our families purchase. I happened to mention Weet-Bix, bread, and milk. The Prime Minister said that after GST was increased, his understanding is that they would become much more affordable when the tax cuts come in on 1 October. I think that shows people that this Government is out of touch with New Zealanders. It has no idea what New Zealanders are facing, and it is not listening to what they are telling the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI think it is all written in this week\u2019s National Business Review. There is a very interesting story in the National Business Review, which is headed \u201CJohn Key\u2019s \u2018Captain Panic Pants\u2019\u201D. Well, in this very interesting article, which I am sure that we will go into in a lot more depth in the weeks to come, this was said by an Auckland business person: \u201CWe meet John at business breakfasts and other events and he always seems to say what we want to hear\u2014he understands the issue\u2014and he promises to follow-up with his ministers. But there are no staff there taking notes and no evidence that anything ever does get followed up,\u201D. I think that summed up the fact that this Government is not prepared to listen to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E I would like to share with this Committee a letter that the Leader of the Opposition received today, which sets out why this Government is not taking account of the charges it is imposing on New Zealanders\u2014GST is just one of them. This letter came from an Auckland businessman who is the owner of a small transport business. He said \u201CI am a father and a husband. I have two children.\u201D He said to Mr Key that he had voted for him, and he had talked to many people and tried to persuade them to do the same. \u201CThis is because I truly believed\u201D\u2014believed\u2014\u201Cthat you were the best man to get New Zealand and the people in New Zealand back on track. I continued to do this until 6 weeks ago. Well, up to this point you have proved me wrong.\u201D, wrote the businessman from Auckland. \u201CYou seem to be forgetting that those of us in business have survived the recession\u201D\u2014it is not over yet\u2014\u201Cbut we have no cash surplus left to pay your extra taxes, such as ACC, fuel tax, RUC, GST, etc., etc.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThe businessman went on to say: \u201CThis road-user charge increase has effectively sent me broke. If you had left things alone, I would have made it out of the other side. Because you are so out of touch, what you have created in my business is two more people out of work, two families with not enough income, and all this before you put up GST, causing food prices to go up, and just after you made rents go up and your tax shuffle on rental properties.\u201D He went on to say he had to lay off an employee, a person who had a family to feed. He said: \u201CI have spoken to many people over the last 6 weeks. You and your party have made everybody\u2019s life harder. It\u2019s almost impossible to pay the bills.\u201D I ask whether we could have had it put any clearer than that businessman has regarding what this Government is doing to thousands of struggling New Zealanders who are trying to bring up a family and pay the bills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EThere is one small thing that this Government could have done in this bill today. It could have given an exemption to the GST increase on rates over the next 9 months. It would have been only a small relief, but it would have shown that this Government did listen to people and did care about the plight that they are in at this moment. We hear from the Government that there has been a tough recession and that it understands what people are going through. Well, if it understands that, then I ask why it will not accept this amendment to the bill. It is a sensible amendment, and it would not cost a fortune for it to be implemented, but it would have shown in a very small way that this Government does care about people out there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EYou see, if members opposite were listening to what is happening, and if they went and visited some of their citizens advice bureaus\u2014in fact, I understand that in Wellington today, none of those members turned up to listen at the citizens advice bureau meeting; it took Labour members to go and listen to what was being said\u2014they would know that people are feeling the pinch. Those members do not want to hear what the citizens advice bureaus are saying, because they know that on the ground people are really feeling the pinch. But if they were to go out and listen to budget advisers at the citizens advice bureaus, they would be told that thousands and thousands of New Zealanders are struggling to make ends meet, and that they are desperately worried about the increase in GST in 36 days\u2019 time. They are desperately worried about what that will do to their ability to pay for their kids\u2019 uniforms, their children\u2019s shoes, and their grocery bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EBut that does not seem to worry the Government at all. It does not believe that the GST increase will be a major problem. In fact, Bill English constantly tells us that people will be better off. Well, I have to tell Mr English that that is not how New Zealanders feel. They do not feel better off now, and they will not feel better off on 1 October, because they are realistic about what is happening to them. People have faced rent increases already, and that is before GST goes up and goes on to rates, which will be passed on to rents. They have seen their mortgages go up. They have seen prices go up, even before the GST increase has been put on. So people are feeling the pinch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Revenue, who is a Minister who knows a bit about taxation, why the Government will not accept the amendment from the Labour Opposition, which would give people some relief in terms of their rates. It is OK in this bill to give relief to others whom many would consider to be big business interests in the community\u2014those who have finance leases are able to have a transitional period\u2014but not the people who will have to pay the extra 20 percent that will go on with the increase in GST on their rates. Those people will get a rates demand that comes now, and they will have to pay the increase right through to July next year, even though GST does not start until 1 October. It is only a small matter, I say to the Minister, but does the Government not think that it might give a good indication to New Zealanders that this Government listens, cares, and is prepared to entertain other ideas? No, it does not do those things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EIncreasingly we are hearing, not just from commentators but also from some of what I would call the more conservative newspapers around New Zealand, which are desperately worried about what is happening to their citizens. We can look at the Taranaki Daily News from last week. We would not say that it is a very liberal newspaper\u2014probably the locals think that it is pretty good, but it is conservative\u2014yet this is what it said. It stated: \u201C\u2026 it would be \u2026 terrible if the Government used the findings\u201D of the Working Party on Welfare to dump on the many at-risk members of our society who have lost a job through no fault of their own and are paying the price for the greed of others.\u201D I do not think that we could have said that better. Those people are paying the price for the greed of others. They have lost their jobs. They have lost their opportunities. They can see no plan from the Government in this legislation, or in anything else that we have seen put before this House, that will see a single job created for them. They can see nothing that will give them a leg up rather than the kick in the backside that is all that the Minister for Social Development and Employment has promised them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003EWe know that a newspaper as conservative as the Taranaki Daily News recognises that this Government is being punitive towards hard-working Kiwis who have lost their jobs, and we know that businesses have closed\u2014like that of the businessman who owns his own transport business, and who has had to lay people off because of the charges imposed by this Government. National railed against road-user charges when it was in Opposition. Do members remember the protests on road-user charges under Labour? Oh, yes, that was a terrible thing then, even though there had not been an increase in road-user charges since the 1980s. But this time, when this Government has put one on, it is OK, and people were told not to worry about it, even though it is driving a company out of business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6763534e902429ea71365e3cbc7682f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6763534e902429ea71365e3cbc7682f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Now we know what Labour\u2019s policy is: cancel tax cuts and give an exemption for GST on rates. That is the policy. Well, I invite Mrs King and Mr Goff to go out to Mana in the by-election and campaign on that\u2014cancel the tax cuts, but provide an exemption for GST on rates. Let us see how popular that is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203508c2043434fa7b61cd5c50c225fb9\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Calm down, man\u2014calm down, \u201CMr Angry\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f657349c628449bebf1282bf96e16006\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think that the former member for \u014Ctaki, who has lost that seat twice, would know what the people in that part of New Zealand will say to that policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ca0830052594abe9ff0bc55c320f0c3\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s on a hat trick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d87ea87f1950445f9d45da1130c18927\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: He is on a hat trick. That is why, when we are talking about issues to do with KiwiSaver, GST, and tax, Labour has no credibility. Well, it is just politically stupid. It is just a stupid policy. There is nothing to be said for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWhere is the wisdom in that policy? From an economic point of view, it is nuts to cancel the tax cuts and provide exemptions for one little part of people\u2019s expenditure. It would make almost everyone in New Zealand worse off, and that is where Labour\u2019s thinking is up to. It would make almost everyone in New Zealand worse off as they go into Christmas. It would be telling them: \u201CSorry, we\u2019ve cancelled your tax cuts, but you\u2019ve got a GST exemption on rates.\u201D The Labour backbenchers must shudder when they see so-called experienced people like Mrs King and \u201CDazza\u201D coming up with dazzling policies like that. It makes no sense for the economy and absolutely no sense for the people of the Mana electorate. Let us make the by-election in Mana, if there is one, a referendum on that policy. That is how confident we are that when New Zealanders see the increase in GST, alongside their tax cuts, they will see that this is the right direction for the economy and is beneficial for their households. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EWhen Labour members are getting around and talking about GST, they need to look at themselves in the mirror. When Labour members read the letter from the man in Auckland, they should look at themselves in the mirror. The previous speaker mentioned accident compensation charges, and a former Minister for ACC, Ruth Dyson, is sitting here. The previous Government cost the Accident Compensation Corporation billions of dollars. Rehabilitation rates went backwards, entitlements exploded, and levies were held too low. We have had to clean up that mess, and what a mess it was. When anyone says anything to me about increases in accident compensation levies, I just tell them what a good job we have done of turning them round. If they have a complaint, they should send it to the Labour Party, because the previous Labour Government wrecked accident compensation with politics and incompetence. One of the effects is that accident compensation levies have gone up for some businesses. Labour has been against every measure we have taken to contain accident compensation rises; Labour has opposed them. Labour is in favour of higher accident compensation levies, because it wants to expand entitlements further and for us to continue to run the scheme as an incompetent monopoly, as Labour did. Labour is in favour of higher accident compensation levies, as well as getting rid of the income tax cuts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003EI have a question: can the next speaker get up and tell us whether Labour supports the tax cuts on 1 October? That is what we want to know. We want to know what Labour thinks about this bill, and we want to know what it thinks about the tax cuts on 1 October. The way Labour is campaigning on GST, it gives us the sense that there are no tax cuts. Whenever Labour members talk about the impact on households, they talk only about GST.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00227e1e711b10934d0b84eeee81e86901c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e1e711b10934d0b84eeee81e86901c6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Party most certainly does not support 35 percent of the income tax cuts going to the top 5 percent of New Zealand\u2019s income earners. We are clear about that on the record. I ask how Mr English can think it is a good idea, when he is running a deficit, to give income tax cuts of which 35 percent goes to the top 5 percent of income earners. It is poor economics. It will give us a greater deficit as a consequence and a more unequal society, which is also bad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of the misrepresentation by Mr English of the Hon Annette King\u2019s comments, the record has to be set straight. Never has Annette King suggested that GST should come off all rates. All Mrs King raised was the very good idea that if we are to give some relief to the increase in GST that is coming on 1 October for people who have 5-year financial leases, why do we not give some interim relief during the first year for rates? People who can afford to pay those rates for the full year before 1 October\u2014that is, wealthy people\u2014will get that relief. They will not pay the increase in GST on this year\u2019s rates, but people who cannot afford to pay all of their rates for the full year before 1 October will not get that relief. They will pay the increased rate of GST on the balance of their rates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party amendment is on the floor of the House, and National members could vote for it if they had the gumption to see that this detail would give that same relief from the increase in GST for this year. It does not apply to all GST; it applies just to the increase in GST on rates for the balance of the year. That is what the amendment from the Labour Party says. It does not suggest, as Mr English tried to tell the Committee in misrepresenting the amendment, that all GST should be relieved from rates. Once again, it shows how desperate the National Government is to misrepresent Labour Party policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that Mr English is the same man who says that National inherited a bad state of affairs from the previous Government, when in fact National inherited some of the lowest rates of net Government debt in the world\u2014it had gone down to zero\u2014and gross Government debt had come down from 35 percent of GDP to 17 percent of GDP under the previous Government. National did not inherit a bad fiscal position; it inherited a good one. The position would have been far worse had Mr English been in charge of the Treasury benches during that period of Government, because he opposed every Budget surplus that we ran. We used those surpluses to reduce Government debt and to start the savings into the Cullen fund. Instead, Mr English said that there should have been unaffordable tax cuts. If New Zealand had done that, we would have been closer to the position of Portugal, the United Kingdom, and Spain, all of which have high Government debt and, therefore, problems that this country does not face. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis bill is a lost opportunity in respect of big things like savings. The Government, through this bill, could have reinstated KiwiSaver and proper savings towards the Cullen fund. This bill does not do that. The Government has set up a Savings Working Group, because at long last it has acknowledged that one of the problems in New Zealand is our savings level. That is one of the big differences between New Zealand compared with Australia. We in Labour have been saying that for years. It is why we started Government savings through the Cullen fund and the surpluses we ran. It is why we started incentivising private savings via KiwiSaver. They are both measures that the National Government has undermined, just as it undermined the Kirk savings scheme and Mr Peters\u2019 efforts in the late 1990s to introduce compulsory savings. The Government has no coherent plan to bridge the wage gap with Australia. This bill does nothing substantial to bridge that wage gap. It continues to grow ever wider, despite the protestations by National to the contrary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EOnce again, I reinforce the point that Annette King made. There is one small thing that can be done for Kiwis who at present are pushed on their cost of living, in respect of the extra GST\u2014not all GST\u2014that is coming on their rates for the balance of this year. Let us give those people who cannot afford to pay all of their rates for this year by 1 October the same relief from the increase in GST that is given to those people who have already paid their rates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Papers 156 and 157 in the name of the Hon Peter Dunne be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2b1e2c7787246f69b076cbe1e3a0c7d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The amendment in the name of David Garrett has been withdrawn. The amendment in the name of Stuart Nash, which seeks to insert a new clause 81B, is out of order because it does not meet the 24-hour rule under Standing Order 320(1).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EParts 1 to 5, schedules 1 and 2, and clauses 1 and 2, as amended, agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b94867d0a5724ebfa1ad464ff3ed7612\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u00222a55fcb192b64345ad363f4975c95009\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a55fcb192b64345ad363f4975c95009\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill be now read a third time. We have heard a lot, over the last few hours, about the contents of the bill as introduced and reported back from the Finance and Expenditure Committee; and one or two other things besides. The main feature of the bill is that it allows New Zealanders who return home permanently from Australia to bring with them the compulsory superannuation contributions they have made while working in Australia. This will include New Zealanders who have already returned from working in Australia and who will be able to retrieve their compulsory contributions and continue to save for their retirement through KiwiSaver. In the same way, the reciprocal arrangement that the bill introduces or gives support to will allow KiwiSaver members who move to Australia to transfer all their savings in that scheme to an Australian-complying superannuation scheme, including contributions from the Crown and any member tax credits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThese are very positive developments for all concerned. For New Zealanders who live in Australia it can make the decision to return home easier, knowing that they can bring their compulsory superannuation contributions with them and continue to build up their retirement savings. From the Government\u2019s point of view it recognises the benefits that a skilled, mobile labour force can bring to both countries. Once these measures pass through our own legislative process we look forward to Australia passing its legislation, although the timing of that may have become a little bit more ambiguous, given the turn of recent events in that country. Perhaps we should say we look forward to Australia having a Government, first, and then being able to introduce and pass the relevant legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe remainder of the bill, as reported back to the House, sets the annual tax rates for 2010-11 and takes into account the significant reduction to personal income tax rates that come into effect on 1 October this year. It also introduces a number of technical and remedial measures to improve the way the tax rules work and to reduce compliance costs for taxpayers. For example, the KiwiSaver enrolment rules for those under 18 years of age are being clarified to give young people, and guardians, greater certainty about their obligations under the scheme. Similarly, the rules around gifting amenities and artwork to local or central government now make it clear that these items are exempt from gift duty. Later this year the Government will be looking towards repealing gift duty altogether, if concerns about creditor protection and social assistance targeting can be addressed. But, in the meantime, the provisions in this bill will give greater certainty to people who wish to gift items for public benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe bill now incorporates two recently tabled Supplementary Order Papers, 156 and 157, which cover the GST transitional issues for 1 October 2010 and a number of other technical changes. The GST transitional measures focus on contracts that span 1 October. Certain successive supplies, such as insurance, finance leases, and lay-by contracts that span the 1 October date, are now able to continue at the 12.5 percent GST rate, to reduce compliance costs. There is also a range of measures to better align the GST time-of-supply rules with business practices. A further provision extends the remission of late-payment penalties and the associated interest for GST returns to cover the period immediately before 1 October. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EOther measures in those Supplementary Order Papers include measures to assist bank liquidity, to remove overreach from what are colloquially known as the \u201Cimputation credit shopping rules\u201D, and changes to the tax treatment of certain optional convertible notes to ensure they are not inappropriately taxed by a change in the tax rules. A number of arrangements involving these notes are subject to a dispute between the taxpayer and the Inland Revenue Department and, as a result, we have been very careful with this amending legislation so as not to prejudice these particular disputes as they go through due process. The remaining matters in the Supplementary Order Papers are more detailed and generally remedial in nature. Although I concede that the use of Supplementary Order Papers in this fashion is not ideal, all of the items in these particular Supplementary Order Papers are time-sensitive and are either taxpayer friendly or remedial in nature. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EFinally, in bringing the bill to its third reading may I place on record my thanks to the organisations and the individuals who have made submissions on the bill; to the officials who have developed the policy and worked their way through it with us as it has gone through its stages since its introduction last November; to the drafters of the bill who shaped the policy into the legislation we now have before us; and to the Finance and Expenditure Committee, which scrutinised the measures in the bill to achieve their purpose clearly and accurately and which, as usual, has done a particularly good job in that regard. With those few comments it is now my great pleasure to commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u002250c3109642a94348aa66d4cc51afb619\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250c3109642a94348aa66d4cc51afb619\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Opposition rises to support, in principle, the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill and to acknowledge the need for a range of remedial measures and changes driven by the rush to implement the increase to GST. Before going through the substantive matters in the bill and summarising the discussion during the Committee stage debate, may I join the Minister of Revenue in acknowledging the work of officials, his staff, the Finance and Expenditure Committee, and its chairman and staff as well. A great deal of work has gone into this bill under a very compressed time frame. I should say perhaps that it has not been the easiest of processes. The Minister has acknowledged that it has not been ideal, and I cannot blame officials for that because they, like the rest of us, saw the Prime Minister on television saying that he would not raise GST, and, no doubt, they were as surprised as we were when the Government did a U-turn and decided to do that. That has left Minister Dunne, hitherto known as the \u201CMinister for Remedial Measures\u201D, to bring to the House 28 pages of Supplementary Order Papers that have not had the benefit of a select committee process, let alone the benefit of the normal generic tax policy process. It would be my prediction and that of the Labour Opposition that we will be \u201Cremediate-ing\u201D the remedials before the 3-year triennium is out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe debate at the Committee stage was disappointing from the point of view of the Labour Opposition: Government members, like the chief whip, Mr Tremain, rather than engaging on the substance of the issues seemed determined to use it as an opportunity to spread misinformation about Labour\u2019s record. For example, he alleged in debate that the previous Government had not reduced Government debt as a percentage of GDP, and I ask him which Government he was referring to, because the outgoing Labour Government reduced gross debt as a percent of GDP from 35 percent to 17 percent. We cut it in half, and reduced net debt, including the assets of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, to zero, making New Zealand a net-creditor nation for the first time in over a century. That was quite an achievement, I would have thought. At the same time, in particular, we achieved the world\u2019s lowest unemployment and the longest post-war economic expansion. Ask any New Zealander who is waiting for the so-called aggressive recovery. My goodness, how good do those golden days seem now! Then, of course, we have had to endure the misrepresentations from the Minister of Finance, who talked about a so-called 8.7 percent real increase in post-tax income, under this Government, in which he conveniently included the benefit of tax cuts brought down by the previous Labour Government in its 2008 Budget, which he voted against. So when is a policy not a policy? It is when one votes against the other team\u2019s policy and then includes it in one\u2019s own total. Further in his speech at the end of the Committee stage, Mr English misrepresented the Labour amendment, which, of course, does not remove all GST from rates, and was never intended to do that. It is a small token of recognition that people who are paying GST on rates should not retrospectively face a higher rates bill during the year of transition, and thereby this amendment defers the increase for this year, as is appropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EIt is inevitable and proper that in the debate on a bill that seeks to impose a higher goods and services tax on all New Zealanders, the debate should turn to the substance of why that is happening. The stark contrast between this Government and the Opposition has been borne out. The Government is ignoring the real world costs for real Kiwis. It is ignoring the needs of real households that simply cannot afford another $20, $30, or $40 a week, because they cannot pay the bills. They cannot pay their power bills in the winter. They cannot pay their rents. They are sharing houses. They are living in garages. Those people do not need a lecture about saving more, spending less, or being imprudent, because they are doing the very best they can just to survive. If there was ever a statement that showed that the Government was out of touch, it was from our colleague Mr Gilmore, who said that $20 did not matter. Well, it matters to too many of our constituents, not to mention the real businesses\u2014the ones that are facing the risk, the cost, and the hassle of having to change all their prices and are bearing the risk of the GST flow-through in the middle of the year. They have been crying out, nay pleading, for these 28 pages of Supplementary Order Papers that protect a few of them from unintended consequences. But if it is good enough for the Government to bring in remedial Supplementary Order Papers that protect financiers from the cost of finance leases, I ask why it was not good enough to protect ratepayers from retrospective increases in rates. I ask why it took the Labour Opposition to protect those Kiwi householders. I commend my colleague Stuart Nash for his far-sighted amendment, which is but a small token of the fact that Labour is in touch with heartland New Zealand and it has taken only 2 years for the National Government to get out of touch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EThe same arrogance was shown in the savings component of this bill. The Government is supporting an ACT Supplementary Order Paper\u2014and so are we; it is OK as far as it goes\u2014that introduces more choice in KiwiSaver by allowing individuals to contribute at a higher rate. But it is interesting that in the week that the Government has finally lurched towards setting up a committee to advise it on savings, after 9 years in Opposition, 2 years in Government, two Budgets, and not a single new idea of its own, there is no mention of employer contributions. The Minister of Finance has specifically ruled out any net increase in Government contributions, because it has to be \u201Cfiscally neutral\u201D. That means, I say to members and New Zealanders, that Kiwis will pay for all their own savings. But I ask why they would do that if they are already stretched. The answer is because the Government intends to compel them to. The Government will not provide them with the ability to save through higher wages, nor with incentives through a balanced set of contributions by employers and the Crown, nor with better tools like easy save savings options; the Government will simply force them. Well, the full flowering of the nanny State, one might say, is the granny State. When nanny State meets savings and superannuation it becomes the granny State, and it is apparently here to stay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders all around the country are asking why they voted for National again. They have already forgotten. They thought that National was going to give them everything they enjoyed under Labour, that National would maintain social benefits, that National would catch us up with Australia, and that they could have everything they liked under Labour, and with a nice smiley man to help them do it. His name is \u201CCaptain Panic Pants\u201D, according to the National Business Review. \u201CCaptain Panic Pants\u201D is a man who has poll-driven his Government to a standstill. The National Business Review is no friend in particular, it might be said, of Labour. We have come to accept over time the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune from that august journal. But when the National Business Review, amongst thousands of New Zealand business people, says that the Government has not just lost its bottle but that it has never even found the bottle, then I ask what the game plan is to get this Government out of the stagnant pool, and to stop it from losing its way. I ask where the game plan is to bring real jobs, real incomes, and real hope to real Kiwis. Unfortunately, necessary and appropriate as this bill is, the game plan is clearly not in this bill. There is nothing here to sweeten savings for Kiwis. There is nothing here to bring relief for higher GST. The bottom line is that in 2011, 5.9 percent inflation will eat away any gain people thought they had. This Government said that people would have 20 bucks a week in their pockets when they turned up at Countdown. Yes, but they will not be able to pay for the same trolley load of groceries, they will be 30 bucks short at the end, because the price of everything in the trolley, just like the price of rents, rates, power, and everything else, will have gone up by 2.5 percent on GST and 5.9 percent inflation, and ordinary Kiwis will be worse off until at least 2014.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022042416c81e75464ea5b0e3075193c056\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022042416c81e75464ea5b0e3075193c056\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E We are in the third reading of the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill, and I acknowledge the Minister of Revenue for the work he has done to get the bill to this stage. It has been a somewhat wide-ranging debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI will make a couple of points. Speakers on the other side of the House keeping talking about a 28-page Supplementary Order Paper. Well, like the pamphlet that they gave out that miscalculated the GST increase, Supplementary Order Paper 105 has five pages, Supplementary Order Paper 156 has 15 pages, and Supplementary Order Paper 157 in the name of the Minister has 13 pages. Not one of them is 28 pages long. Those Supplementary Order Papers do not even add up to 28 pages. Maybe the devil is in the detail. Once again, it just proves that members on the other side do not really have a grasp on the core issue, at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker, the Hon David Cunliffe, also spoke about National voting against a Supplementary Order Paper in the name of one of the members. If Mr Cunliffe was paying attention, he would note that that Supplementary Order Paper never even came to the vote. But perhaps I am being a bit picky. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EWhen Mr Cunliffe started speaking, he conveniently forgot, as he often does, about the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update in 2008, which sadly revealed for our economy the decade of deficits, a terrible growing debt, the revelations in accident compensation, and the revaluation of KiwiRail. You name it, it was there. He also touched on the growth in real wages under this Government of 8.7 percent. He is quite right in that some tax changes were announced in the dying days of the previous administration. As we all know, and the records will show, they were poll-driven, and when National announced its tax plan after 9 years of waiting, suddenly Dr Cullen and the previous Government found themselves able to give out income tax cuts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EVery quickly, I say that the previous speaker also talked a lot about GST. He said that there was nothing in this legislation about GST or administration, and he is quite right. Very little about GST is in this legislation, because this is the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill. GST provisions are in another bill. There is a lot in this legislation to deal with GST, because this legislation includes the new tax schedules under which we will see the income tax cuts announced by this Government in the Budget. They kick in on 1 October this year and will see about two-thirds of New Zealanders face a highest marginal income tax rate of 17.5 percent, which is half of what it was 3 years ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI acknowledge other speakers and assistants, and I commend the Finance and Expenditure Committee members and officials for getting the bill through the Committee stage, in spite of the rhetoric over the last few hours. I acknowledge that Opposition members are voting for the bill. Sure, they have some reservations and some political points to make, but, overall, good tax policy is coming through here. I thought the process was pretty good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI will quickly touch on something that I did not really have a chance to talk about in the in-depth select committee deliberations. I congratulate the committee, the officials, and the private sector advisers involved in the branch equivalent tax account debits changes. In terms of the bill that came into the House initially and was referred to the select committee, the committee\u2019s work brought a lot of fairness and clarity. Some quite substantial numbers are involved as far as obligation, potential losses and/or gains for the taxpayer, and some entities are concerned, and we see in the commentary on the bill that we start to touch on those particular issues. I thought this was a great example of the committee\u2019s cross-party work towards good tax policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI have one final point. I know that a Green member will speak after me, but in an earlier speech the co-leader of the Greens Mr Norman talked about the illegal behaviour of banks being prosecuted for tax issues, etc. I do not think that the Taranaki savings bank was prosecuted by anyone. Was Southland Savings Bank? I do not think so. My point is that members should be very, very careful with the generic terms they use when they are talking about matters that have been before the courts. Members need to get their facts right. I know what the member was trying to say, but it would not take much more for him to say that, rather than use the terms he is using, which are somewhat confusing and do not show this House in a good light. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u002252442ac4e1044077b5dd6aa509cfc671\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252442ac4e1044077b5dd6aa509cfc671\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I agree with Mr Foss. I think members should say what they actually mean. I say to Mr Foss that he has made a very good point, and that when John Key was the Leader of the Opposition and he stood up on television and told New Zealanders that National would not raise GST, he should have meant it. He said: \u201CNational will not raise GST\u201D, but it did. So I challenge Mr Foss to go and talk to Mr Key and give exactly the same advice to Mr Key\u2014that he should say what he means. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI rise in support of the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill\u2014it is a bit of a mouthful\u2014in its third reading. I also support Supplementary Order Paper 157 put forward by Peter Dunne, which deals with major fixes to the increased GST regime that is about to be implemented on 1 October. I also support Supplementary Order Paper 158 put forward by David Garrett\u2014I never thought I would say that\u2014which adds to the available rates that can be chosen by a worker with regard to KiwiSaver contributions. However, I would like to make three points in my speech on this bill. The first is that Labour did not support an increase in GST. The second point is that this legislation is necessary and proper. The third point is that the implementation of the GST increase has turned into an absolute shambles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI want to clarify one point in this House, and it comes down to my first point. Even though Mr Dunne\u2019s large Supplementary Order Paper is about remedial action in relation to the GST increase that will take place on 1 October this year, we support his Supplementary Order Paper because it is necessary in order to get this dreadful increase to a stage where it does not bring down the whole economy, even if it will bring down the Government. Labour did not support the increase in GST from 12.5 percent to 15 percent. Like the majority of New Zealanders, Labour has never agreed with an increase in GST, and we would never vote for legislation that was so regressive and so penalised the majority of good hard-working New Zealanders that it gave a tax cut from which 33 percent went to only 5 percent of taxpayers. Labour supports robust legislation that helps New Zealanders to improve business efficiency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI also introduced an amendment in the Committee stage. It would have gone just a little way towards alleviating the financial stress imposed by the increase in GST. The amendment would have ensured that GST on rates was held at 12.5 percent for the remainder of the financial year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6edc7685d004ef1a854d3200d34116e\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I know that the member wants to debate and mention an amendment, but that amendment was ruled out of order. I refer the member to Speakers\u2019 ruling 117/4, which states that a member cannot refer to an amendment that has been ruled out of order in the Committee stage. I know the member proposed the amendment, and I am happy for him to mention it, but he cannot use it as the substantive basis of his speech. I am happy that the member mentioned it, but he must talk about other things: about what the Committee decided on, which now forms the basis of the third reading\u2014the bill as it will become the Act. I now invite the member to continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276a51c58a42745459fa3f6b4ba280317\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: One thing that disappoints me about the whole process is that the one amendment that Labour put forward\u2014the only one; we supported two more Supplementary Order Papers\u2014was turned down. That amendment would have alleviated, in just a little way, some of the harm felt by taxpayers, who will really find it tough when GST increases on 1 October. We did not ask for much\u2014just one amendment. But it was voted down. The thing that really surprises me about that is that my amendment was completely in line with the principles and practices that the other amendments were operating under. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe major item in this bill allows New Zealanders who are returning home from Australia to bring their retirement savings with them. This is a sensible arrangement. We have been told there is potentially $16.6 billion in lost contributions from New Zealanders who are working in Australia, which, under this scheme, could come back to New Zealand. Although this bill makes it easier for superannuitants to return home and bring their savings home, I would suggest that the Government\u2019s complete lack of a plan for this country may in fact be a larger incentive to stay away. But people will have to wait only another 18 months, and then we will welcome them home. There will be a plan; they will see it very soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe portability arrangements will allow citizens who have retirement savings in both New Zealand and Australia to consolidate them in one account in their current country of residence. These amendments cover only the transfer of retirement savings between our KiwiSaver scheme and an Australian complying superannuation fund that is regulated by the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority. A person must permanently emigrate to Australia and supply proof of his or her emigration to the provider. To protect the value of savings, transfers of savings between New Zealand and Australia will be exempt from any entry or exit taxes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe current inability of individuals to streamline and consolidate their personal retirement savings accounts is a real problem, we understand, to the trans-Tasman labour markets. The current costs undermine the effectiveness of policies aimed at improving retirement standards of living. Under the status quo individuals may transfer their KiwiSaver savings to Australia upon permanent emigration, but Australian-compliant superannuation funds may not be transferred to New Zealand. So as mentioned, this may well potentially unlock $16.6 billion worth of savings. But even if it is a fraction of that, it will certainly be worth doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EMy second point relates to Peter Dunne\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper, which is proof that the whole GST increase is an absolute shambles. Ernst and Young, a major accountancy firm, stated in a press release that \u201CAs we face the harsh reality of the 1 October GST increase to 15 percent many are realising this is not a modest increase and the issues are actually more complex that anyone first imagined.\u201D This is a call of frustration not from the Labour Party but from a major accountancy company involved in interpreting tax legislation. The GST increase is a shambles, and I wonder aloud how many more remedial matters bills and Supplementary Order Papers we will see coming before the House before this whole mess is tidied up. I am picking that there will be many. All that I can ask Mr Dunne is why this shambles was not tidied up before this bill even came to the House. If he had consulted before the GST legislation came to this House\u2014if he had talked to the business community and asked whether businesses had any problems, and if he had talked to the community\u2014then this mess would not be in front of us now. In fact, if he had consulted, GST would not be going up at all. That is why I introduced my amendment, asking the Minister to consider Kiwi families before the GST increase is implemented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Revenue is in charge of the shambles. He also set up the Families Commission, and I wonder what sorts of families he believes that the increase in GST will benefit\u2014perhaps families earning over $150,000 a year, or over $1 million a year. Those families are about to get a nice little earner with this tax cut. However, they are not the norm. In Napier the median wage is only $30,000 a year, and those people are about to get around $3 a week extra. The GST increase will ensure that the struggle gets worse for those families. Their budgets will be stretched, and their feelings of disenfranchisement will be increased. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, this bill is a mixture of the good and the necessary. The good, for example, is the trans-Tasman portability legislation; the necessary is what is required to tidy up the mess that is the GST increase. I have outlined why the Labour Party supports this bill, and why this bill is important. Our support is in no way at all an endorsement of the increase in GST. We do not support an increase in GST. We were astonished\u2014and, quite frankly, disgusted\u2014when the Prime Minister introduced legislation to increase the GST rate, after telling all New Zealanders that \u201CNational will not increase GST\u201D. And he did. That is simply not fair. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022 data-id=\u00221833c0b14ff44e2d8a6104e8e09567c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221833c0b14ff44e2d8a6104e8e09567c6\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BOSCAWEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise and take a call in the debate on the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill. I speak as deputy leader of the ACT Party. The ACT Party will be supporting this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EThe last comments we heard from the Labour speaker Stuart Nash were that he was astonished and disgusted that the Government increased GST.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cdcac34548a4b8fbb9564dd27d55685\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: No, that Mr Key said he would not, and he did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f8a9b36cd7f41d0b072b0107920fcb5\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: He said he would not, and he did? Mr Nash is astonished and disgusted that GST has increased. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EI absolutely have to laugh whenever I hear Labour members talk about electricity cost rises and people struggling. Every single member of the Labour Party knows that had Labour been re-elected at the last election, we would have had Labour\u2019s emissions trading scheme, and electricity prices would have risen by 10 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a7214a7fc9745b1b086201a355c4613\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Not that old theme again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c74c55a307f41c7999300262e53debb\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: What do we get from Ruth Dyson? She said: \u201CNot that again.\u201D I remind Ruth Dyson and every single member of the Labour Party\u2014and I will continue to remind every single member of the Labour Party and every New Zealander\u2014that prior to the last election Labour passed an emissions trading scheme\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca367a6c251f4e48a31768be0de2785f\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I mentioned in a previous intervention that in a third reading speech one can refer only to what is actually in the bill. I remind members of Speaker\u2019s Ruling 117/4, and I will quote so it is very clear about what I said earlier: \u201COn the third reading of a bill a member cannot discuss\u2014(1) Any matter not included in the clauses of the bill; (2) a clause that was ruled out of order by the Speaker; (3) the merits of an amendment proposed by the member and ruled out of order in committee;\u201D\u2014and that was the case with Mr Nash. I bring the member back to the substance and purpose of the bill, which is very clear. Material in passing can be mentioned, but it cannot form the substantive part of the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc8c3b266d224b8ba4d4476a9fe934ba\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: I was not intending my call to be a long one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EI draw members\u2019 attention to the commentary on the bill, which sets out the number of changes being made to the emissions trading scheme in this bill. My understanding is that those provisions still apply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EThe point I wanted to make is that I hear the debate from the Labour members about people struggling under rising electricity prices, but no one in this House and no New Zealander should be in any doubt whatsoever that if the emissions trading scheme had not been amended, rather than a 5 percent increase in electricity prices, we would have had a 10 percent increase. That is a fact. The real issue is why electricity prices are rising at all. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed395669a7dd4a9d909ac1249fa9f9f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed395669a7dd4a9d909ac1249fa9f9f1\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E I am taking just a short call to advise that the M\u0101ori Party will be supporting this bill. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00223bc8dba3d39141b0979fbb140a0f269d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bc8dba3d39141b0979fbb140a0f269d\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I will take just a short call\u2014probably a little bit longer than the M\u0101ori Party call\u2014about the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286f3183f1ed64c66a4e1ea197980e015\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s taken longer than Hone\u2019s speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b74dbc5d867444ee84d92d882bf0c46c\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: It is longer, is it not? Basically, this legislation opens up the way for New Zealanders returning home to bring their retirement savings with them. That portability of retirement savings between New Zealand and Australia has been a longstanding problem; we are addressing it now so that New Zealanders will find it easier to return home, and will find that they can actually bring those savings with them and enjoy them in their time in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe bill is part of the plan for the economic growth of New Zealand, but it is also part of making it easier for New Zealanders to come home to make New Zealand their future. This bill is important for those reasons, and for many others. The remedial matters provisions also deal with KiwiSaver and other areas. We look forward to the bill passing through this House, and the success that it will bring as New Zealanders come home under rules that accommodate their return.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u002295a487e12cf34c9ab4a84b9684d96ab6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295a487e12cf34c9ab4a84b9684d96ab6\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak in the third reading of the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill. One of the key elements of this bill\u2014perhaps the major component\u2014relates to the way the bill opens up for New Zealanders who have saved in Australia under that country\u2019s excellent superannuation regime to be able to come back to New Zealand with their nest egg, use it to bring capital back into this country, and ensure they have a long and secure retirement on the basis of the Australian superannuation scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI note the way that scheme has come together to provide the capacity for New Zealanders to now come back home with a very nice golden nest egg. That relates to the fact that the Australian Government over 20 years ago decided to put in place a compulsory superannuation scheme. It is funded by a 9 percent employer contribution. Brian Gaynor in the New Zealand Herald recently commented on the benefits to Australia of that scheme. He said that over the last 10 years \u201CAustralia\u2019s total superannuation assets have risen nearly threefold from A$484 billion to A$1257 billion\u201D. That means that New Zealanders who are returning home and bringing their superannuation\u2014as this trans-Tasman portability legislation provides for\u2014will be able to return with an average of around A$56,000. The average Australian has been able to generate A$56,000 in savings through the scheme that their Government, in its wisdom, has put in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe good thing about superannuation in Australia is that it has transcended party politics. The scheme was put in place by the Hawke-Keating Government, was accepted by the John Howard Government, and, of course, has endured to whichever Government will take shape in Australia over the next few days and weeks. That is a very important thing. Superannuation has to be durable. The tragedy in this country is that the Labour Government has three times worked to try to provide a platform for enduring savings, and three times a National Government has knocked it around. The first time was, famously, with the Kirk-Rowling scheme in 1975, which was abolished by the Muldoon Government and replaced by a \u201Cpay as you go\u201D pension scheme funded by the taxpayer. Brian Gaynor in his article in the New Zealand Herald comments that \u201CThis was the worst economic decision by any New Zealand government in the past 50 years\u201D. That is the legacy of a National Government. That is why many New Zealanders went to Australia: because they lost their capacity to save properly in a scheme encouraged, fostered, and supported by a sensible Government policy arrangement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003ESo now New Zealanders, under this bill, are able to bring their savings back, securely and safely, to the order of an average savings regime of $56,000. But do members know what the savings regime for New Zealanders means? The average savings of New Zealanders are just 10 percent of the average savings of Australian workers. Yes, there is a wage gap and we know that it is growing under this Government, but, none the less, we have a factor of 10 in the difference between the average superannuation savings of New Zealanders and Australians, or New Zealanders resident in Australia, who are now, under the sensible provisions of this bill, able to bring back their superannuation nest egg to New Zealand to allow them to have a long and secure retirement based on that sensible savings regime. Our savings are about 10 percent of the amount of their savings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EOne of the other things about this bill is its connections to KiwiSaver. Those New Zealanders who have been resident in Australia are able to bring back their money and park it in KiwiSaver, which is an excellent scheme introduced under the last Labour Government. I go back to my original comments about the need for durability\u2014the need to not play party politics with superannuation. One of the great tragedies\u2014and I think, in future, commentators like Brian Gaynor may note this\u2014is that under this Government, in the first flush of tax cuts, most of the money went to the top third of income earners, and that, in fact, the top 3 percent of earners got about a third of the money from the first round of National Government tax cuts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EHow did National fund those tax cuts? It funded them by cutting the KiwiSaver contribution from a 4 percent employer contribution back to a 2 percent employer contribution. But where are we now? In the last few days the Prime Minister has announced that we need to start looking at a compulsory savings option. So where were we less than 2 years ago? We were cutting a KiwiSaver regime that was giving a million New Zealanders the capacity to start building towards the sort of savings regime that under this bill New Zealanders can bring back to this country\u2014those Australian-sourced nest eggs. We were en route to creating our own savings regime, which would have allowed New Zealanders to build their own security in retirement, but what did the National Government do? It cut that savings regime in half in a venal way, simply to guarantee itself some capacity to win the last election. We know that the funding was cut and that 30 percent of it went to the top 3 percent of tax earners. It was payback time for the National Party\u2019s wealthy mates, at the cost of working New Zealanders and their efforts to secure for themselves some form of security in retirement, which the KiwiSaver scheme was providing. It was cut in half in a cynical, exploitative way by the National Party in Opposition when it was seeking the Treasury benches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EHere we are, less than 2 years later, scrambling around trying to forge a new consensus on superannuation and savings. But even as that starts to take effect, even before the task force has been formed, we had the Minister of Finance say today on Morning Report: \u201COh, no, we are not going to have any net increase in Government contribution to this new platform for security and superannuation and saving for New Zealanders. That\u2019s off the agenda.\u201D So we have had, first, cuts to KiwiSaver, and, second, an admission that we need to start saving for ourselves so that we are not wholly dependent on New Zealanders going to Australia to lift our savings regime. Under this bill those New Zealanders are able to bring their savings back so that they can retire comfortably and securely in New Zealand. We now have a Government that is precluding some of the sensible options that, at the very least, need to be considered if we are to have any prospect whatsoever of an enduring superannuation and savings regime for this country. This Government stands indicted on those points. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EIt was interesting to note the comments in a recent Trans Tasman about why that has happened. Why has the Prime Minister indicated that we will now have a task force to look at compulsory superannuation? Here is what Trans Tasman had to say: \u201CJohn Key sniffs a shift in opinion since 92 percent of voters rejected compulsory superannuation at a referendum in 1997, and a growing public awareness of the implications of living longer. But his case for compulsory saving is not yet compelling enough for hard decisions. The Government will wait until it considers recommendations from a panel of experts who will examine all the issues around retirement savings.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EWell, yes, Trans Tasman is right. The Prime Minister has sniffed a change in a public opinion. It is a change in public opinion that reflects the fact that a million New Zealanders have voted with their feet for KiwiSaver. They have opted into the scheme and acknowledged the value of having a scheme that allows an employee contribution, yes; an employer contribution, yes; and a Government contribution, yes. It is a three-legged stool that gives a superannuation scheme some prospect of endurance, of stability, of being able to be drawn on into the future. But why would the Minister of Finance, within days of the Prime Minister indicating that he wants to see a regime on compulsory superannuation given a look over by a task force, effectively undermine that and say: \u201CWell, you can have that review all right, but don\u2019t think there will be any prospect of Government contribution to superannuation and savings. Don\u2019t even think about that.\u201D? Why would that be? Why would he want to pull one of the three legs away from the only way in which we can build an enduring, sustainable superannuation scheme that can give New Zealanders the sorts of savings in retirement that this bill provides for? This bill provides for New Zealanders who have opted to spend a portion of their working lives in Australia and who have built up nest eggs 10 times what this nation is able to generate by way of savings. We have a Government with a track record in history that dates back more than 30 years, which is that it will play politics on savings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022 data-id=\u00228ed59e7f2eab49cba7b9b75216ac0d1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ed59e7f2eab49cba7b9b75216ac0d1c\u0022\u003EAARON GILMORE (National):\u003C/span\u003E One would think from listening to the rhetoric from the member Brendon Burns that the Labour Party was not supporting the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill, but it is. This is a great bill in terms of putting in place some incentives for those people who have come home since the election to bring their savings that have been in Australia to New Zealand. Thousands of people have decided they want to come to New Zealand under a John Key - led Government. This bill is a little step in the right direction to help enhance that for those people, and we think it is a neat thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EI will touch on some of the rhetoric from Labour members. They read out a press statement espousing the views of Ernst and Young. I used to work at Ernst and Young. Those views were not the views of Ernst and Young; they were the views of one partner within Ernst and Young. There is a disclaimer at the bottom that says they are not the views of Ernst and Young, they are the views of Jo Doolan. I am surprised that that was not mentioned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EThis bill takes some wonderful steps in the right direction. The Minister of Revenue talked about the great provisions in relation to gift duty. People who donate artworks to local authorities can do so free of gift duty, and that is a good thing. It is a good thing for wealthy people who want to donate bits of valuable artwork to local authorities, because the paperwork and the taxation will be less, and that is a step in the right direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EThe other good thing we talked about was the imputation credit pooling that has been put in place in Supplementary Order Paper 157. That was a good Supplementary Order Paper, it was put forward and voted on, and I am very supportive of it because it helps some of the financial sector restructuring that is necessary post the recession. Those are all good steps in the right direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EFinally I will touch on one thing that seems to be the mantra from Opposition members in relation to KiwiSaver. The Minister of Finance talked about this earlier. KiwiSaver has not actually increased national savings. All that it has led to is a switch in the mixture of national savings. This bill has nothing to do with that. It will help our national savings to increase in terms of the volume of investment that comes from Australia into New Zealand, and that has to be a good thing to help our economy grow a little bit better. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022d78839069a4949a79b78a9975f4fe61a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d78839069a4949a79b78a9975f4fe61a\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora n\u014D t\u0101tou. Naturally, we support the third reading of the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill. I would like to acknowledge the new Minister in the House, Mr Boscawen. I have not had the chance to personally or professionally acknowledge his elevation. Although there is an adversarial spirit in our politics, in the context of our overall parliamentary mission I wish him good luck and I look forward to many a partisan bout. Very few of us make the status of being Ministers and I acknowledge his new status.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f3e168a4ad640268a282bd974e546da\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Did you make him one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd976ab1b8d24d4da0e74c459e1a0499\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Rest assured, I say to Mr Quinn, those words will not be wasted on him. I mean no personal disrespect, but as befits this House, the truth must emerge. In that way, I say that Mr Quinn may achieve one of three things, but the dizzy height that Mr Boscawen\u2019s current status represents, and occasionally his\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6b0bf1855de491c8e4a9d2b9d45047e\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: That assumes I want to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3e773b0fe5e46b4bda916932a5b4444\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: The more the member talks, the more I am reminded of The Muppets. An episode of The Muppets was based on The Wizard of Oz and there were three characters: one was looking for his brain, one was looking for his heart, and the other was looking for his courage. All of those three issues are combined and embodied in one figure\u2014that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI will come back to the bill. Other members have spoken about deeper themes, and they are legitimate themes. Although they may stray slightly from the provisions in this bill, the themes about savings and KiwiSaver, and the refinements made to that scheme, are an attempt as a nation to provide an avenue and some products that New Zealand families can put their money into. It was never going to be easy. Dr Cullen, in our time, created the architecture for this scheme and provided different incentives, and the refinements in this bill actually make the scheme work a wee bit better. But the scheme is only as good as the money trickling into it, and therein lies the major deficiency in the thinking represented by the Government around this theme and this area of Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EDespite having a goal and the rhetoric to deepen the reservoirs of capital\u2014we all know that one of New Zealand\u2019s great economic challenges is the absence of adequate capital and our reliance on overseas sources of capital\u2014it is disappointing that this bill, although it scratches at the surface, does not signal what we as a nation, under the stewardship of this current Government, short though its reign may be, are doing to deal with this deep structural problem. It may be said that the Government is largely of the view that it is not really a problem, provided that the costs of the State can be melted further and further down. Obviously, with more and more indiscriminate cuts of the sort that we have seen and heard about, the overall position of the nation is not as parlous as some of us think it is, in respect of capital accumulation. But that is a very impoverished view to have about future generations of New Zealanders who have joined the many wakas leaving Aotearoa, on the bright flight, going to Aussie and to other places. Perversely enough, this bill is an incentive for some of those people to come back, along with their valuable savings. I do not know whether the return of that capital and the return of those people will reverse the fortunes of our nation, but anyone who has his or her roots here is obviously welcome to come back home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe difficulty with the current thinking reflected by speakers on that side of the House is that they genuinely doubt whether a lot of their nervous energy, political capital, and intellectual capital, in the form of the member sitting at the very rear of the House, ought to be exhausted on that issue. But they will find, moving forward into election mode, that savings will be one of the very critical issues. It goes to the heart of our sense of destiny and our sense of having a claim on the future for our children and our grandchildren in our lives here in New Zealand. I ask whether we can address the issue of savings through these very modest refinements, or, at a deeper level, through supporting the architecture that was established to attract people to make a sacrifice now, so that the quality of their lives will be improved in the future, and, more important, so that the quality of our national economic infrastructure can be upgraded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EOn our side of the House it is beyond cavil; there is no quibbling. We are firmly of the view that saving needs to be advanced significantly. We think that these refinements need to be augmented substantially. It has been said that we cannot afford the refinements. But the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister, without any apparent strategy or logic, are quickly getting rid of options as to how we can build on the very key vehicles referred to in this legislation\u2014that is, the vehicles that are up and running managing Kiwi funds, and delivering presumably quite good outcomes on those funds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe area that is outstanding and that has not been referred to in any of the speeches from members on the other side of the House is how such funds are to be deployed to meet the development challenges of our own country. How are those funds to be rewarded if they are deployed in our own country to grow the infrastructure? If we want jobs, if we want expanded incomes, and if we want a reason to keep our graduates and our families from feeling the need to go away from New Zealand, then we have to provide the fiscal succour for firms to grow and create jobs, and expand their income frontiers and their horizons. That will not happen by lamely scratching around the sides.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ETo date, beyond this bill but still connected to it, there has been a paucity or an absence of any ideas that animate people in our community, or even animate us across the House. It is sad that an issue as critical as the future of savings and the availability of capital cannot receive bipartisan support. Our leader on earlier occasions has made those kinds of gestures, only to see them repudiated for short-term, petty political gain. That is a very sad and disappointing way to advance this agenda, but such is life. We will debate those things as we get closer to the election date next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EGST is referred to in this legislation. Indeed, other legislation that deals with GST is wending its way through the organs of the House. We support the changes here, but let it never be forgotten that GST is a consumption tax. Although there are some economic reasons as to why a society may want to move to a consumption tax, the difficulty with the decision that the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister have made is that the shift towards a consumption tax was essentially funded by additional borrowings that have then been rechannelled and are benefiting largely disproportionately those who already have the ability to pay. That is why towards the end of this year there will be not only a wind change\u2014and it will not be a mild zephyr\u2014but a sea change. People will not be able to enjoy the quality of life that they thought they were purchasing when they yielded their votes to the personalities on that side of the House. They will realise not only that they are poorer, that their quality of life is diminishing, and that the services they took for granted are being cut, but that they will face a deep and, dare I say it for a number of New Zealanders, almost existential problem as they watch more members of each generation move away and leave our country. Those issues we were promised would be arrested. Those issues we were promised would be dealt to effectively, and we would see a reverse. The only thing we have seen in reverse is the connection between what National promised and what it has delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EAlthough Labour members support this bill, we will not support as we move forward the very partisan, short-term, shallow, but quite nasty ideas that continue to come on the economic policy front from members on that side of the House. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e2a5e5665f3d4779bad9f1261beebb8e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Taxation (Annual Rates, Trans-Tasman Savings Portability, KiwiSaver, and Remedial Matters) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 112\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022184fd29351864d4eaf4a28be74533122\u0022\u003ELegal Services Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002287d0ec415d9c4990ac2d2b872f2d849d\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022cce20a5e90f2422f84a5c2f86b9d61ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cce20a5e90f2422f84a5c2f86b9d61ab\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: I move, That the Legal Services Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the Legal Services Bill be referred to the Justice and Electoral Committee, that the committee report finally to the House on or before 21 December 2010, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting except during oral questions, and during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 187 and 190(1)(b) and (c). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EIn April 2009 the Minister of Justice announced a fundamental review of the New Zealand legal aid system, led by Dame Margaret Bazley. Dame Margaret\u2019s report, released at the end of last year, identified failings that posed a serious risk to the future of our legal aid system, including the variable quality of legal aid services, inefficiencies created by prescriptive legislation, and serious service delivery issues. The clear message was that it was time for fundamental change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe Government has already moved swiftly to act on Dame Margaret\u2019s findings, and this bill forms another part of that response. The bill disestablishes the Legal Services Agency and makes the Secretary for Justice responsible for administering the legal aid system. The bill also establishes the Legal Services Commissioner as an independent statutory officer within the Ministry of Justice to ensure independent decision-making in the granting of legal aid and the managing of cases in the Public Defence Service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThis bill places legal aid where it should be: at the centre of the justice system. It will ensure that the legal aid system aligns with other Government initiatives intended to enhance access to justice and support the effective operation of the courts. The Legal Aid Review Panel, which currently reviews the decisions of the Legal Services Agency, will also be replaced by a new, improved Legal Aid Tribunal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EDame Margaret Bazley praised the quality of many legal aid lawyers. However, she also highlighted serious concerns about the variable quality of legal aid services, and the inability of the current system to deal with poor performance and lawyers who act corruptly. A new quality assurance framework has been developed in consultation with the New Zealand Law Society to ensure that all providers have the skills to do the job assigned to them, and that complaints will be addressed. Current legal aid providers will still be able to provide legal services for a transition period after the new legislation commences. However, within that period they will need to apply for approval under the new quality system if they wish to continue to provide services. Selection committees will make recommendations to the Secretary for Justice regarding the approval of lawyers and other providers, based on criteria and regulations. A review authority appointed by the Minister of Justice will be able to consider unsuccessful applications. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe bill also establishes mechanisms to ensure the continued quality of services after providers are approved. A new Performance Review Committee will consider complaints raised against providers and, where appropriate, will recommend sanctions. The Ministry of Justice will also audit the legal aid services that have been purchased on behalf of New Zealand taxpayers. That auditing may include the disclosure to the auditor of legally privileged information, but the bill contains safeguards so that the legal aid client is not disadvantaged by the disclosure, which can be used only in relation to the audit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EDame Margaret was also concerned that New Zealand\u2019s prescriptive legislative regime was stifling innovation in service design and delivery. That regime contrasted starkly with the approach taken in comparable countries, such as Canada and Australia, where administering bodies are charged with identifying the best ways to provide services. Flexibility and innovation in service design and delivery are central to this bill. Unlike the current Act, the bill does not specify services that can be provided under the duty solicitors scheme and police detention legal assistance scheme. Instead, those services will operate under a general provision. This approach allows for services to be provided in the way that best meets clients\u2019 needs, and allows services to be responsive to changes in the court system. It will not affect the ability to provide, or monitor the quality of, those services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe Secretary for Justice also has the flexibility to contract with community law centres to ensure that consistent and high-quality community legal services are provided across the country. In addition, the bill allows for a streamlined process to assess applications for low-cost criminal cases, which will improve cumbersome and expensive administrative procedures. This will mean that lawyers can spend less time filling in forms, and more time providing legal advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe bill gives the Ministry of Justice the ability to ensure that providers comply with basic business practices that support the cost-effective delivery of legal aid services. I understand there are currently cases where invoices are submitted a year or more after the work has been done. These business practices are unacceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EDame Margaret\u2019s report also raised a concern about a potential overlap in the funding provided for settlement negotiation matters by the Legal Services Agency and the Office of Treaty Settlements within the Ministry of Justice. Under the bill, legal aid funding will no longer be available for settlement negotiation matters. Instead, funding will be transferred to the Office of Treaty Settlements to ensure that claimants continue to receive appropriate assistance for each step of the negotiations process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe Legal Services Bill will provide the framework for a new, more effective legal aid system in which New Zealanders can have confidence. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u00222cc7d2157a0e4c6fb948d13864505e43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cc7d2157a0e4c6fb948d13864505e43\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I intend to move that all the words in the Minister\u2019s referral motion appearing after the word \u201CCommittee\u201D be deleted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EOn that issue, there is simply no justification for a referral motion that was phrased in the terms the Minister of Education read out in her prepared speech. If the Minister, on behalf of the Minister of Justice, has foreshadowed that we are in for yet more meaningless urgency on bills that do not merit it, then members on this side of the House protest greatly about that. I think that other members ought to be concerned, as well, because it is an abuse of the processes of this House to deal with issues as serious as the ones we are dealing with in this session under urgency, without proper justification. Although the Minister clearly foreshadowed the use of urgency, she did not deign to tell the House why there might be the need for urgency in respect of a bill like this one, the Legal Services Bill, or in respect of other bills, for the rest of the year between now and the foreshadowed deadline for reporting back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2d4272581094b43902225eb034c8dea\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: The taxpayer wants us to work, Charles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202b671fbb4b34a699b8450d394714622\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Quinn has interjected with one of his learned interjections again. He says that taxpayers want us to work. Some members on this side of the House work pretty hard, I tell Mr Quinn, and we are prepared to do that without the need\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225327da5505a44b2785c27c51a1293dba\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Only some! What are the others doing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e31d8e2983114b3ead0b97862b4c1c22\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: All members on this side\u2014some members of the House and all on this side of the House\u2014work hard. We do not need an urgency motion to tell us that that is what we should be doing. It would be helpful if members on that side actually worked out that doing the business of this House properly did not involve urgency, but involved a considered consideration of legislation. That is something they seem to have forgotten, because this Government is using urgency more often than any other Government for many, many years. It is just not justified. If we look at the programme, we see there is no justification for it. It is an outrage, especially when we should be doing our job. The taxpayer will not thank Mr Quinn if we are back in here in a year\u2019s time amending shoddy legislation that had been rammed through this House under urgency, and\u2014mark my words\u2014if those members on that side of the House continue as they are, then that is what they will see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0b66670321244028ca2b6f15f7d7f74\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: The Opposition agreed to the urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcc3495ae3b14c7093661225cbb0cf48\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Quinn says that the Opposition agreed to the urgency motion. I can tell him and his colleagues that there will be no more agreement to such motions if the sort of motion we have just seen from the Minister of Education continues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIn the prepared speech that the Minister read out, she referred to the report of Dame Margaret Bazley. Some aspects of that report are worth having a good look at. It found that there were some serious problems with the current system, which was set up in 1991 by the then National Government, when Parliament passed the Legal Services Act 1991. That Act merged the civil and criminal justice legal aid schemes. Some members opposite know a lot about the detail of that matter. I look at Mr Borrows in particular, and it will be interesting to hear his contribution on the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EClearly there are some problems with the current system. There are problems in defining the respective relationship between the Legal Services Agency and the Law Society. It has been suggested in the report and elsewhere that the fact that the legal profession asserts control over the legal aid system through the Law Society creates a real risk of there being no independent oversight. Even though the Legal Services Agency can, at the moment, provide some oversight, it is said that it does not have the necessary means in all cases to remove legal aid providers who are found to be performing poorly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe other salient structural criticism in the report was some highlighting of how legislation makes the market for legal aid arguably more inefficient than it needs to be. One of the instances cited in the report was that the current law has inflexible provisions for procurement, which makes the Legal Services Agency\u2019s processes overly bureaucratic and stops it from procuring services in the most efficient way. An example is the lack of flexibility to choose between the Public Defence Service, a community law centre, and legal aid. That ought to be an easy choice for somebody in need of legal representation. When public money is at hand, one would think there would be room for the relevant authorities to use it as efficiently as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EDame Margaret\u2019s report made a series of other recommendations, and those included raising the barriers to entry so that it was absolutely clear that lawyers working in the legal aid area were absolutely competent and equipped with the requisite integrity. That is obviously something that nobody could argue with. It has been recommended that a mechanism be put in place for the swift ejection of lawyers who do not satisfy those criteria. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThere is a recommendation that there be a clarification on the regulatory side, as between the legal services, authorities, and the New Zealand Law Society, and there be an option to use publicly funded services such as the Public Defence Service, when those are the most efficient option on the table. That option is not available under the current arrangements, but it ought to be. It is good to see some of those matters picked up in the version of the bill that has been tabled for first reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003ESome important changes are intended to the administration of legal services. The administration of publicly funded services is to be transferred from the Legal Services Agency to the Ministry of Justice. Similarly the Legal Aid Review Panel will be disbanded, its function to be carried out by the Legal Aid Tribunal within the Ministry of Justice. The position of Legal Services Commissioner will be created to have an oversight of the operation of the system\u2014an independent eye cast over the legal aid system to make it more accountable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003ELabour will support this bill being referred to a select committee, because, as far as we can tell, those recommendations are good, and the bill implements some good and sound policy. But we have some concerns. I have already dealt with the first concern, which is the fact that we are dealing with this legislation under urgency, and that the Minister has clearly foreshadowed that the Government intends further unmerited urgency throughout the year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe second concern relates to Minister Simon Power\u2019s conduct in the wake of his receipt of Dame Margaret\u2019s report, and some of the allegations that were made in it. I know that my colleague Lianne Dalziel dealt with this matter publicly at the time. She and I also went up to meet members of the Manukau bar, many of whom rely in large part on legal aid to provide access to justice for their clients. They are, by overwhelming majority, reputable lawyers who work hard in unforgiving situations to provide access to justice when it is needed by ordinary New Zealanders. They are to be praised for the hard work, dedication, and integrity that they exhibit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EUnfortunately there were some obviously quite inaccurate allegations in Dame Margaret\u2019s report. She said that up to 80 percent of the bar may be abusing the legal aid system out at Manukau. Clearly that is not right. We have met many of those providers and, as I say, they are good people who deserve better than that sort of allegation. They deserved for Simon Power to have refuted that allegation, rather than simply accepting the report in the way that he did. Surely the principles of fairness would have required that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EWe have some other concerns about the substance of the bill. The area of legal aid in employment disputes needs further attention. Frankly, we have some misgivings about whether the wider aims of the bill will be able to be achieved in the wider context of other legislation already passed in this Parliament and in this session. If the whole purpose of the bill is to curb the out-of-control cost of legal aid in New Zealand, as it is alleged to exist, which is particularly high in the criminal area, the Government cannot on the one hand try to achieve that and, on the other hand, pass the completely misguided \u201Cthree strikes\u201D legislation, which will work directly against that objective. Because of the higher prison sentences that judges will have no option but to bestow in criminal cases under the \u201Cthree strikes\u201D legislation, pleas of not guilty have been positively incentivised. That will inevitably lead to the prolonging of trials and will place extra cost-pressure on the justice system. If the Government had any regard for proper policies working comprehensively, let alone fairness, that issue would have been looked at, instead of using the piecemeal approach that has been adopted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EWe place real value on having a well-functioning legal aid system. It is essential that everybody has proper access to justice, and that such access be one of the rights that are guaranteed by the State. We will support the bill going to a select committee, but we have the reservations that I have stated in my speech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00226ba8de06146b4c5bb555291871197ace\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ba8de06146b4c5bb555291871197ace\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4607a3a9ca044488b88b314a2637ba2\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Vote for the amendment, Chester. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022422354a1170343d5b7dc0ccc9e41d2b1\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS\u003C/span\u003E: I will not be voting for Charles Chauvel\u2019s amendment to the referral motion. I think it is important in discussing his amendment to remember why this House has gone into urgency on a number of occasions recently, and also to have a little bit of a look at the history. This Government has been criticised on a number of occasions for taking a long time to process legislation introduced by the previous Government, only to find that the legislation\u2014for instance the Children, Young Persons, and their Families Amendment Bill (No. 6), which was introduced just a couple of weeks before the House rose\u2014was never taken anywhere during the course of the last Parliament even though the preparation had been done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EWe had another example of that this afternoon, when we heard the Hon George Hawkins refer to his Sale of Liquor (Objections to Applications) Amendment Bill, which is currently before the Social Services Committee. It was introduced in October 2007 but went nowhere, right through until the election in November 2008. With the support of members opposite it had been stalled, pending the process initially of the previous Government\u2019s own bill on the sale of liquor, which, again, that Government never processed during the course of its Parliament. That bill goes hand in hand with bills on other domestic violence matters that were not progressed during the previous Parliament, either. We heard recently about the Hon Lianne Dalziel\u2019s bill, which she spoke about and asked questions about yesterday; that bill was introduced only 2 weeks before the last election, yet somehow there is some huge criticism of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe other reason this Government has taken urgency on a number of occasions over the term of this Parliament is that on a number of members\u2019 days when members opposite have had member\u2019s bills coming up, they have postponed them, meaning that if urgency was not called we would have \u201Cpulled the pin\u201D at 5 o\u2019clock and knocked off for the rest of the night, because those are the conventions of this House. If people on the opposite side of the House wanted to work as hard as they want the public to think they are working, then they would maintain the stance they took by putting in the bids they did for those member\u2019s bills. The reason we are voting against Mr Chauvel\u2019s amendment is that we want to see these matters progressed through the House in a timely manner, and not being held up by members opposite mucking around with the system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8707613c02a4358948cc4e6ebf38219\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8707613c02a4358948cc4e6ebf38219\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I too was caught by surprise at the brevity of the contribution of the previous speaker, Chester Borrows, on the Legal Services Bill. I was looking forward to the opportunity to engage with that member in particular, because unfortunately we did not have a justice Minister to present the motion in favour of the introduction of this bill. Although we support the bill\u2019s referral to the Justice and Electoral Committee, there are some challenging issues around this particular habit of the Government. I think this was the comment that my colleague Charles Chauvel was making. He simply made reference to the fact that this was occurring under urgency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe point that Charles Chauvel was making was to ask why on earth the select committee has to have these obligations thrown on it to meet outside the normal sitting times for select committees, thereby missing out on opportunities to participate in debates in the House. We had the ridiculous situation recently where I was sitting on the Justice and Electoral Committee and an electoral bill was before the House. That meant that it was impossible for those who have a particular interest in speaking on the bill to do both jobs at the same time. I think that was a very reasonable point for my colleague to make. If we are going to have requirements on select committees to sit for extended hours, either during the course of the sitting of the House or on Fridays as well, then it really is helpful if members of the Opposition are consulted. The only reason that I ever get consulted on the Commerce Committee is because I am the chair of that committee and it would be rather foolish of the Government to move a motion like that without telling me about it first, although the Government did manage to tell me about it only 5 minutes before it moved the motion in support of such a referral on one occasion. But I have received undertakings that that will not happen as a matter of course. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EIt would be useful if we were told that this was an approach that the Government was trying to take on this particular matter. There is no need for it. The reason that there is no need for it is that, as I said, we are supporting the reference of the Legal Services Bill to the Justice and Electoral Committee. We genuinely want to engage in the process around this. I made a submission to the Bazley review on legal aid. There are not many people in this House who actually did that, but I did because I believe it is really important that we engage on something as fundamentally important as this is\u2014that is, access to justice. It is an important component of access to justice and that is why I wanted to make a submission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI was pleased with some elements of what Dame Margaret came up with, but I was disappointed with the allegations in relation to up to 200 lawyers in Auckland and South Auckland\u2014it was identified that 80 percent of the people were working in the Manukau area\u2014and I found that completely unacceptable. I have met with many of those lawyers. Charles Chauvel and I went and met with them. The people whom we talked to were not people who were afraid to raise concerns about those they felt were taking advantage of the system, but they felt that their concerns fell on deaf ears. For those deaf ears who failed to listen to them, well, the consequences are the Legal Services Bill and the disestablishment of the Legal Services Agency. I think it is really important to note, if we think about where the complaints were made, that if lawyers complained to the Legal Services Agency about the nature of concerns they have about other lawyers ripping off the system and nothing happens as a result, then this is what occurs. I believe that some of the proposals within the legislation are perfectly sensible, and, therefore, we need to take some action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI make the point that demand for legal aid has been increasing over time. But there are two particular components of the legal aid system where we see marked increases in their requirements and they are in the criminal jurisdiction and in the Waitangi Tribunal jurisdiction. They are the two that have the most increases. I have a personal view, and I did express this in my submission to Dame Margaret, that the legal aid component of the Waitangi Tribunal work should be funded separately through Vote Justice. It should not be seen as a cost to the legal aid system because it gives an impression of a total blowout in expenditure, which is not justified when we think of what the legal aid system is there for in terms of both the criminal and the civil jurisdiction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e210b970a3aa42e5bda601ab1a86926b\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: You had 9 years to do something about that. The problem was there for 9 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b9210d7d77e442286ef666ae70583ff\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: I know that that member likes to interject really loudly from a seat that does not belong to him. I know that he has moved up close so that he can be close to me to do that. I am getting used to it, but ignoring such a loud voice is quite difficult. When I do not find it so loud, then I find it very easy to ignore everything that he says. The point I was making is that this is not something that relates to anything other than the public perception of the blowout in legal aid. A big chunk of that blowout relates to the Waitangi Tribunal\u2019s jurisdiction and I believe that should be funded separately. It would be useful from a public perception point of view to get a clear understanding of what belongs to civil legal aid and what belongs to criminal legal aid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThere is an issue around the questions that have been raised in the regulatory impact statement. In the problem definition\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dfee5f80ca847309cf14375f9c68202\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Lianne\u2014Speaker\u2019s ruling 63/1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3531034152448d884719db64afc2c15\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: I am finding it very difficult as I am constantly being harangued by the other side. Maybe I could look the other way, but I am trying to address the Speaker. The options that were put up in the regulatory impact statement relate to a universal system of public provision of legal aid services as implemented in some of the Auckland courts. What they said was that this could generate significant economies of scale and be a low-cost option. But\u2014and here is the phrase; here is the rub\u2014the following statement is typical. I almost thought that this was a Treasury regulatory impact statement because it sounded like Treasury words. But this comes from the Ministry of Justice, and I think our spokesperson on the State sector should be worried about this, because it states \u201CPublic provision has, however, only been tested in large communities and in criminal cases. As well, universal public provision creates a risk of an inefficient bureaucracy over time, due to the absence of any competition.\u201D Well, I am sorry, but one can understand why I thought that came from Treasury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe point I make is this: I went to the Croydon Family Justice Centre in London in the UK last year and one of the things that I saw was that it was\u2014I am finding this difficult; maybe those two members who are talking might like to take over\u2014the Croydon Family Justice Centre itself that contracted in the outside legal work to work with the families, and if the families did not like working with the particular lawyers, then those contracts came to an end. That was a much better system, I thought, of bringing the local community into the decision making on who will be getting that range of work, and it is all tied up with a properly funded legal aid system. It is the best of all worlds. There are the economies of scale that the centralised work can provide but there is also that outside expert input from the private sector from time to time, as is required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI think that this bill has a considerable amount of work to be done on it. I do not agree with the way the Government has tried to play around with the sitting arrangements of a select committee without consulting with the Opposition, but we will support the bill\u2019s referral to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u00229534ccf9206846aab472b0a51ce0707c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229534ccf9206846aab472b0a51ce0707c\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker Roy. We acknowledge some of the concerns raised by the Labour Party, and we would also have appreciated some consultation on the select committee process, but in looking at this Legal Services Bill we believe we have considered the legislation carefully, and we do not feel confident that its provisions provide sufficient protection for those in need of legal aid from undue interference by the Government. We also do not agree with many of the findings in Dame Margaret Bazley\u2019s report, on which this legislation is based. Therefore, we will not be voting to support this bill at its first reading, but we look forward to seeking further information during the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe legal aid system, as described in the regulatory impact statement, is designed to assist those who cannot afford legal representation when they need it. The legal aid system helps to uphold the principles of, and access to, justice, equality before the law, and natural justice, which helps to build and maintain public confidence in the legal system. The regulatory impact statement notes that there is a clear relationship between justice sector outcomes and the provision of publicly funded legal aid services. So the provision of publicly funded legal aid is critical, and it must be undertaken with the greatest care for natural justice principles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Bazley review came out of concerns raised about the legal aid system, including concerns based on rising costs, problems with access, and the impact of the system on the courts. Her report notes that the Legal Services Agency was established to administer the legal aid system, to maintain a list of lawyers who could provide legally aided services, and to grant legal aid. As a Crown agent, the Legal Services Agency performs these functions at arm\u2019s length from the Government. That is important, because it avoids any conflicts of interest that the Government may have when funding legal aid for people who are involved in litigation with the Crown, such as when the Crown is prosecuting a crime or when people are suing the Crown. We believe that this is an extremely important principle to uphold. It is not appropriate for the Crown to be the decision maker on what funding is made available to those who are litigating against the Crown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe report notes: \u201CThe new tribunal should have an explicit requirement to have regard to both access to justice considerations and responsible expenditure of public monies. To this end, the Chair of the new tribunal should not be a lawyer.\u201D I find it incredible that the Bazley report should recommend that the chair of any new tribunal should not be a lawyer. This highlights the entire tone of the Bazley review\u2014that lawyers cannot be trusted with public moneys. I wonder whether John Key should perhaps be watching out for Chris Finlayson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EReading through the legislation, it seems to me that the recommendation to deny anyone from the legal profession the chance to head the tribunal has been dropped, and that is a good thing. However, the Green Party is an evidence-based party, and we see that this legislation will scrap the current Legal Aid Review Panel. We have not seen any evidence that that panel has not been doing a good job, but some snide comments were made in the Bazley report, and\u2014poof\u2014the panel is gone. I understand that the staff of the Legal Services Agency will be carrying on, but it will not be the same for those at the review panel. Once this legislation is enacted, they will be gone. That topic needs to be addressed by the Minister of Justice. I ask what the Legal Aid Review Panel did wrong, and why it is going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIt is also worth noting that Ms Bazley\u2019s report was concerned that the Legal Aid Review Panel\u2019s funding was through the Legal Services Agency. Now, both organisations will fall under the purview of the Ministry of Justice, and I am not sure how that will assist. We already have a breach of this principle when it comes to the Treaty settlement process. That process is clearly flawed because in large part the accused party determines the funding for the aggrieved party. So it is with dismay that we see that the recommendation from the Bazley report states that because the legal aid system is essential to the operation of the justice system, it is recommended that the administration of the legal aid system and the procurement of legal aid services be centralised and kept close to the Crown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThroughout the Bazley report, which was the catalyst for the legislation in front of us today, there is an implied suggestion that lawyers cannot be trusted with the public\u2019s money. Should applicants be denied legal aid, they can currently apply to the Legal Aid Review Panel to look at the Legal Services Agency\u2019s decision-making process. But Ms Bazley in her report suggests scrapping the Legal Aid Review Panel\u2014which is what this legislation does\u2014and replacing it with a tribunal that will work from and within the Ministry of Justice. This is what Ms Bazley stated about the prospect of a lawyer heading a tribunal that will be assessing legal aid decisions: \u201CIn reviewing decisions of the [Legal Services Agency], the new tribunal should have regard to both access to justice considerations and responsible expenditure of public monies. I am not confident that a Chair drawn from the legal profession will necessarily achieve the appropriate balance between these considerations. Therefore, I consider that the opportunity should be taken to appoint a non-lawyer as the Chair of the new tribunal.\u201D We cannot agree to this view, and we believe that it undermines the legitimate concerns raised within the report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe do not agree that the issues raised in the report about the operation of legal services are best remedied by bringing the agency under the purview of the Crown, and thereby breaching one of the principles of natural justice. The structural solution being proposed in the wake of the report will end the independence of the Legal Aid Services Agency, whatever its faults may be, and fold it back into the Ministry of Justice. There will be genuine accusations of political interference in the decisions to grant or to refuse legal aid applications. That will erode public confidence in the legal aid system, and it could undermine access to legal aid by members of the public who are concerned about privacy and political interference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe are also very concerned that the principles of natural justice are being undermined in an attempt to make administrative savings. Although some of these concerns could be remedied in the select committee process\u2014and we will welcome that discussion\u2014we are not satisfied that this bill, as it is, promotes and protects public access to justice, builds confidence in the legal profession, or meets the precepts of natural justice. We will be opposing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u002281a020f286ea454eba92883155fad935\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281a020f286ea454eba92883155fad935\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker Roy. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238bb39aa00644338aff68b3dd0e521ab\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b43eee4991f43cbbc97e650222ce7ac\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora, I say to Mr Quinn. Tomorrow marks the occasion of 20 years since the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act landed on the New Zealand judiciary. That is important, because the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, together with the 1993 Human Rights Act and the nation\u2019s founding document, Te Tiriti o Waitangi, provides the framework for a strong and evolving constitutional discussion, which the M\u0101ori Party will proudly lead over the next few years. Alongside all that, of course, the M\u0101ori Party is also proud to claim responsibility for this nation\u2019s signing up to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, providing Aotearoa with a set of international benchmarks regarding indigenous people and the law. So as we come to the Legal Services Bill, the M\u0101ori Party does so looking for the same positive reform that Dame Margaret Bazley noted in her report highlighting a range of deficiencies within the legal aid system, including the poor quality of legal aid services and serious service delivery issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EDame Margaret made some far-reaching recommendations, including the following: ensuring aid is available equally across the country, taking into account geographical, social, cultural, and economic factors; extending social services into the courts to reduce the social deprivation of court users and their families and wh\u0101nau; and creating a better focus on legal needs for M\u0101ori and Pacific peoples and on the barriers they face. Dame Margaret also made the point that if the legal aid system fails M\u0101ori, then the system fails altogether. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe stories of delays and deferrals are legendary. I note the situation of 19 people caught in the 15 October police terrorism raids on T\u016Bhoe, whose applications for legal aid were not even looked at by the Legal Services Agency for 4 months. All M\u0101ori electorate MPs know of people who have made complaints about incompetent and corrupt lawyers dragging out the legal process to maximise their fees or recommending that their clients plead guilty because they are too lazy to do the necessary groundwork to defend their M\u0101ori clients properly. So we welcome the proposal in this bill to have lawyers sit competency tests before going on the legal aid roster. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EMind you, I note that comments about bad lawyers at the Manukau court, in particular, need to be balanced alongside the reality of the huge workload and woefully inadequate resources provided for the high numbers of defendants appearing before that court. I quote from an email we received just after the Bazley report was released: \u201CThere\u2019s no doubt that the Manukau Court is known as one of the most difficult courts in the land to work in. This does not mean however that it attracts the worst kind of lawyer. Quite the reverse. One has to be very dedicated to work in this court. Many of our finest lawyers have worked, and continue to work, in this court\u2014Karina Williams and Eddie Paul to name just two. I was appalled to find that some of Ms Bazley\u2019s findings were based on \u2018anecdotal evidence\u2019. In common terms this means gossip. There is so much work in the Manukau Court that I can\u2019t see why any lawyer would even need to be \u2018gaming the system\u2019 as she puts it. The majority of hard-working lawyers in the Manukau Court don\u2019t need this kind of publicity.\u201D The M\u0101ori Party also supports the right of all people to have access to justice, as proposed in this bill. Indeed, the denial of that access to justice was one of the main reasons behind Te H\u012Bkoi Takutai Moana, the birth of the M\u0101ori Party, and the drive to repeal the Foreshore and Seabed Act 2004. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EOne major point of concern that I have comes from a meeting held last year when M\u0101ori tribal and legal leaders expressed their concern to the Minister of Justice about the number of lawyers appearing before the Waitangi Tribunal and the consequential loss of tribal control to lawyers acting on their behalf. It was proposed that the Legal Services Agency and the Waitangi Tribunal develop options that retain the benefit of legal aid, but place controls on the number of lawyers, the cost of lawyers, and the domination of lawyers over M\u0101ori issues. However, I note that much of that will be blocked by this bill denying legal aid to those negotiating settlements with the Crown. In our view, that simply adds another problem, rather than dealing with the original one. We do not support proposals to deny legal aid to those negotiating Treaty settlements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EMy gut feeling is to not support this bill. Although it addresses general issues that impact on M\u0101ori, it does little to address the specific needs of M\u0101ori. Given the number of M\u0101ori appearing before the courts, I note that there is nothing in this bill to support the reopening of the M\u0101ori Legal Service, either. However, the M\u0101ori Party will support this bill in its first reading to allow time for groups and individuals who have a stake in this matter, including M\u0101ori legal practitioners, M\u0101ori involved in the legal aid process, people who have worked for the M\u0101ori Legal Service in the past, M\u0101ori who have been ripped off by legal aid koretake in the past, M\u0101ori involved in Treaty settlements, M\u0101ori social service providers, and others, to tell the select committee what they think of this bill and how they think it might be changed to improve services to M\u0101ori in the future. Our vote beyond the first reading will be determined by what we hear through the select committee process. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022d65a50dd598e4295ae729bac8c75c2b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d65a50dd598e4295ae729bac8c75c2b4\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Every defendant in the summary jurisdiction and every accused in the indictable jurisdiction has the absolute right to counsel and, as I am about to discuss, the right to competent counsel who know that the system is not for them but for the players\u2014the defendants and the victims\u2014in the system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EFirstly, I say to Hone Harawira, who is inclined to not necessarily support the Legal Services Bill, that this bill, if it is for anyone, is for those M\u0101ori he was talking about, who at the moment, yes, do go to prison in disproportionate numbers but who have the most to gain of anyone from having competent counsel in the courts in this country. This bill is very important. As I said, everyone has a right to counsel, but they need to be competent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI am the first to accept that the vast majority of criminal lawyers in this country are competent, but there are some\u2014they have been referred to as car-boot lawyers and various other sorts\u2014who are incompetent. I have seen them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bf80616f563452eac5e89a83af9f140\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Name them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6287e0e38a044e3ae4b9478e1292ea6\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I will not name them; they may vote for me! I have seen lawyers who have had a law degree for 30 years and have not been on a refresher course with the Law Society for 30 years. There is a perception out there that criminal law is easy. Actually, it is one of the most difficult areas of law, in my opinion, to practise in. In the last couple of years this House has passed about 12 or 13 statutes that have made wide-ranging changes to the arena of criminal law. Those things need to be kept up with. They are not simple. If there is anybody who needs to be on top of his or her game in the practise of law, it is the criminal advocate who literally has a person\u2019s life on the line. As we put up the penalties\u2014and I think it is right to do so\u2014with bills like our \u201Cthree strikes\u201D legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022578df9c4e3bc482c818ae6fd47ea6308\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: Ours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d5b4118957045abb7c8b999a72349ae\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the stakes increase. David Garrett had something to do with it; I am not sure what. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe other thing that is important when we are talking about counsel is a system that is not just for their benefit but is also, as I said, for the benefit of the real players\u2014the victims and the accused. Yes, there has been gaming of our criminal justice system. Dame Margaret Bazley talked about the delaying of pleas to maximise legal aid. Certainly, I have seen cases where guilty pleas have been put in on the morning of trial when it has been quite clear that the pleas were coming for a long time. By doing that, defence counsel is able to claim maximum preparation for the trial as well as obtain the guilty plea. There are top-up payments and retainers from clients. Despite counsel getting their legal aid, which is all they are legally entitled to, they ask for more from the client. That is a despicable practice, which Dame Margaret Bazley found evidence of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI have seen and I am aware of defence counsel who come along ill-prepared for cases\u2014again, they are very much in the minority\u2014and the first they learn of a case in a jury trial, where the stakes are high, is what they pick up from Crown counsel when they open the case. That is not good enough. This bill addresses those concerns and will do something very real about it. The bill creates various new agencies and tribunals to ensure that there are higher standards. I commend this bill, at its first reading, to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2251dd779a741b49869b1f1d1c3c1b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2251dd779a741b49869b1f1d1c3c1b2\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I start by acknowledging all the good lawyers out there who undertake legal aid and represent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1dfc95705614ed89816b83cddb126d9\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Simon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225334b8958f344faca249bd020ba68c78\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not mean Simon Bridges, whom that member has pointed out. I will return to talking about the lawyers who have contributed much to the criminal justice system. As I think Simon Bridges mentioned in one part of his speech, the lawyers causing the problems that have been identified by the review are very much in the minority. But if we look at the criminal justice system and uphold very strongly the principle of access to justice, no matter how small the minority is, we can see that very serious misdemeanours have happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EIf we look very briefly at the review, we see that one of its findings was that some 200 lawyers were seen to be rorting the system. Certainly, that matter should be of great concern not only to all members of this House but also to the people who use the system. There were top-up payments from clients over and above what the Legal Services Agency had provided. That is absolutely abhorrent. Access to legal aid is very much designed for the people who are simply not able to afford access to justice. That is the whole principle of the system, so to demand a top-up payment is totally unacceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThere was some concern that complaints made to the Law Society about dishonest behaviour were not acted upon, and certainly that should not have happened. Unpreparedness was also an issue. Legal aid lawyers have been turning up to represent clients and they have not been prepared. That is unacceptable. A number of other issues were identified. In particular, there was no control over the legal aid system in terms of the legal profession and, effectively, no independent oversight. That is of real concern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI hasten to add that those concerns were in the minority, but they were still concerns. If we look at our legal aid system, we see that everyone in New Zealand wants to see the best bang for the taxpayer buck in that investment, and to have that system rorted in any way, shape, or form is not acceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI note that Dame Margaret Bazley\u2019s recommendations included raising the barrier for entry into the legal aid system. Only lawyers with competence and integrity should be able to work in legal aid. That is a given. It is really important. Where it is seen that lawyers are incompetent or dishonest, or both, and where there is concern about the work that they are doing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e267fe85ef51432da0ae35d98904c634\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Or all of the above.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022030227a9574140c18e5e28d89af5033b\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or all of the above, as the member said\u2014there is a mechanism under this bill whereby those lawyers will be ejected from the legal aid system. They will not continue to underperform or, at worst, act dishonestly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThe bill also clarifies the roles and responsibilities of the two regulators with an interest in this area: the Legal Services Agency and the New Zealand Law Society. Publicly provided services, like the Public Defence Service, should be used where there are sufficient case volumes to make them an efficient option. This would include places like Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch, and areas where there are particular problems with quality, such as Palmerston North. My colleague Ian Lees-Galloway, the very, very competent member for Palmerston North, has shown concern about the services in those areas, and he is very pleased that there will be a lift in the quality of the services in Palmerston North. It was also recommended that there be a streamlined eligibility assessment model for low-cost criminal cases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EAll in all, very common-sense recommendations were made. If we look at the background, we see that criminal legal aid was established in 1912 and civil legal aid\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3a0824b8ebf45eab0a2693d41716835\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: The year the member was born!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bcf5abb485e4e30b396af7d54507bef\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: That was a nonsensical thing to say and it did distract me for a moment. Civil legal aid came into effect in 1969. That interjection could have come in now, actually\u20141969 would have been far more acceptable. Our current legal aid system dates from 1991, when the Legal Services Act was passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003ECertainly, Labour believes that the Legal Services Bill is very timely. It is a chance to overhaul the legal aid system. The reforms are positive, particularly the emphasis on the public defender system and also on community law centres. I will spend a little time acknowledging the tremendous work done by community law centres in our communities. Often in our select committees we have submissions from community law centres on legal aid matters and many other issues. I must say that their focus is very much on access to justice and on getting the best deal for all\u2014the importance of the many, not just the few, having access to justice. The constructive submissions that community law centres have brought to many select committees focus not so much on feathering their own nests or on their own personal remuneration but on providing the best justice system for all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the work of community law centres and, particularly, the fantastic work of the community law centre in Waitakere. My electorate office and many other west Auckland MPs\u2019 offices often refer people to community law centres for advice. The feedback is that people receive very sound advice that enables them to go further with their concerns, or, in many cases, they receive constructive advice to the effect that they should not go further, and that prevents them from going down the line of very costly litigation. Community law centres should always be publicly funded. Labour is very, very happy about the new emphasis being placed on community law centres playing a greater part within the system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003ELabour believes that the bill is necessary to restore taxpayer confidence in legal aid, which is a vital part of our justice system. Labour is not saying that this bill, in its current form, is the perfect bill. That is certainly not the case, but we believe that the bill should go to the Justice and Electoral Committee. We look forward to hearing the views of New Zealanders. I am a member of that select committee, and during that process we will hear submissions not only from community law centres and the Law Society but also from people who have been part of the legal aid system and from lay people who are not necessarily lawyers but have an interest in seeing justice served. We will be very, very pleased about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003ELabour is also pleased that the Public Defence Service will be expanded. I acknowledge Phil Goff, our leader, who as Minister of Justice at that time launched the Public Defence Service. Without further ado, I commend this bill to the House. Thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022 data-id=\u00228bc0e57f183c42c8bca208fac342dc02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bc0e57f183c42c8bca208fac342dc02\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E The ACT Party supports the Legal Services Bill. As members of the House will know, I always enjoy being able to agree with members on the other side of the House. I commend the previous speaker, Lynne Pillay, quite genuinely and sincerely for her speech. A great deal of what Lynne Pillay said was excellent stuff. I put on record that the ACT Party too has a commitment to the right of people to be legally represented. I see perhaps a touch of incredulity on your face, Mr Assistant Speaker Roy, that I am agreeing with Lynne Pillay, but it is true. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EThe member talked about the valuable work of community law centres. I\u2014and, I suspect, many other lawyers in the House\u2014have worked at community law centres pro bono. I have never been keen on using my skills to help criminals, so one of the things I did was work in a community law centre. Those centres provide a very valuable service for those at the bottom of the heap, and frequently people who have a number of different problems, other than an inability to pay, go there. They often just need someone to listen to them. I remember a man some years back who wanted to sue Bill Birch for $25 million for some perceived slights, which, of course, was totally unrealistic. But he felt he was listened to and treated with dignity. So community law centres play a very valuable role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EIt would be wrong to say that all, or even most, legal aid lawyers are at the bottom of the barrel\u2014as Simon Bridges said, criminal law is a skilled branch of the profession\u2014but it would be equally wrong and naive to say they are all top-notch. If we go to any district court in the country\u2014less so in the provinces, I have to say, but any metropolitan district court\u2014we see lawyers whose suits need a clean; whose hems are clipped up by staples; who have not seen, as Simon Bridges said, the inside of a refresher course for a very long time; and who are not up to date with the changes in the law. That is not right, primarily for the defendant; it is also not right for the taxpayer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EHere, sadly, is where I have to diverge from agreement with Ms Pillay. Unlike the Labour Party I do not agree, and ACT does not agree, that anyone is entitled to endless legal aid. We live in a society where resources are rationed to some extent. Rationing of resources frequently happens with older people. My mother died a wee while ago. She probably could have been saved with a pacemaker, but she was 90. The hospital authorities gently told her that she was not a candidate for that surgery, obviously because of her age, even if she was strong enough to have survived it. So we reluctantly accept some rationing in the health sector, as they say these days. Everything is a \u201Csector\u201D, is it not? But why should we not accept that there should be some rationing in legal aid? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EMs Pillay touched on civil legal aid. As a practising lawyer, it used to distress me very greatly to often meet people who had very real and genuine civil claims, but unfortunately they were middle class. They were not poor enough to get legal aid\u2014the very small amount of civil legal aid available\u2014and they were not wealthy enough to pursue the case themselves, even if we did the work at very discounted fees, as we often did. So a whole heap of people go with an unmet need, which is the phrase these days. I do not know why we had to invent all these phrases, but that is it. Those people had unmet needs because there simply is not the money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EOf that pool of $160 million or something allocated to legal aid every year, the vast majority of it goes to criminal legal aid. I have just addressed the Sensible Sentencing Trust annual victims\u2019 conference. I looked around that hall, recognised many faces, and knew their stories. Many of those people have been victimised by criminals who have appeared 100 times in court, and 100 times the taxpayer has picked up the tab for their defence. Is that sensible? We tell old people like my mother that they could potentially be saved by a pacemaker, but they are 90 years old. Although they did not say it to my mother, they were essentially saying that that money could be better spent at the neonatal unit. In the ACT Party, we say that everyone is entitled to a defence once, perhaps twice, and perhaps even three times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f525a72e8abd4624af8e867bc5f89bf2\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: Three strikes and you\u2019re out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227087dce09a894e7aa6067ae2d6507984\u0022\u003EDAVID GARRETT\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed, I say to Ms Pillay. I would like the members on the other side of the House to tell me by interjection, if they wish, and put on the record whether Labour really believes that someone like William Bell should be entitled taxpayer-funded defence 100 times. Mr Robertson does not have to shake his head. I do not need to use his name; I could use many names that member does not know. I ask whether Labour believes that a career criminal should be entitled to endless largesse from the taxpayer. Well, the ACT Party does not. To paraphrase Lady Bracknell, just about anyone can have the misfortune of being wrongly accused once\u2014by circumstance, by bad luck, or rarely, perhaps, by corruption. It may happen twice, but it would not happen 54 times. So it is perfectly reasonable to look at whether people should be entitled to endless legal aid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill. It makes good changes. But I think we need to look at the whole system, and perhaps\u2014Ms Pillay said it as a joke\u2014whether \u201Cthree strikes\u201D should be extended to the legal aid system. People are entitled to a full and complete defence by a qualified and competent lawyer of their choice three times. But if someone is unlucky enough to be wrongly accused four times, then perhaps that person should be on their own. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u002222e250a3c8984c5aa5acf9e42ea2a26a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222e250a3c8984c5aa5acf9e42ea2a26a\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E I will start my contribution with an old saying: \u201CNinety-eight percent of lawyers give the rest of them a bad name.\u201D But the Legal Services Bill seeks to recognise the importance of preserving access to justice in spite of that 98 percent. In fact, very few lawyers sail close to the wind when representing their clients. The National Government wants to make sure that all New Zealanders have access to a high-quality legal system. The Government also wants to ensure that taxpayers\u2019 money is well spent. The review undertaken by Dame Margaret Bazley in 2009 identified many challenges being faced by our legal aid system. That review also identifies that there are inadequate mechanisms to ensure quality and serious delivery of services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe Legal Services Bill will provide an effective legal aid system that supports the wider justice sector. It will create a system in which taxpayers can have confidence and will also provide high-quality legal service by capable professionals. The legal aid service is very vital to our most vulnerable citizens, and the changes made will make proud the users and the providers. This bill shows that the Minister of Justice, Simon Power, has acted quickly to address the issues identified by Dame Margaret\u2019s report. We are also confident this package of challenge will help build more public confidence that the legal aid system is providing quality service for those who need it, while giving taxpayers value for money. I support this bill on its first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022f28793492e014edfbc06c42f0636e091\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f28793492e014edfbc06c42f0636e091\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call on the Legal Services Bill. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker, for holding my place. I will reflect very quickly on some of the comments that were made by Mr Garrett. I think it is a shame in this debate that although Mr Garrett very nobly recognises points of agreement, he also recognises that we descend into some situations that, by and large, are the exception, not the norm. Within our criminal justice system we must organise a system that is still based around the ultimate principle, which I would hope he agrees with, whereby people are innocent until proven guilty. If Mr Garrett would like to present to this House a methodology where we could maintain that principle, which is the fundamental foundation of our criminal justice system, and still iron out some of the issues he raised, I would be happy to engage with him on that point. But arbitrary cut-offs, such as those that were suggested\u2014I assume they were suggested off the cuff, granted\u2014do not do that. I am happy to engage in that debate, but we must ultimately keep in place that fundamental principle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAgain, I say to Mr Garrett that arbitrary cut-offs do not work. I will expand on that when it comes to the principle of \u201Cthree strikes and you\u2019re out\u201D, because, again, that is probably the ultimate demonstration of arbitrary cut-offs that remove the very important principle of judicial discretion, which is a key part of our criminal justice system. I will come back to that, but first I will address the substantive matters in this bill. It overhauls the legal services system in New Zealand as it has sat in its current form since about 1991. Those who have been listening to this debate will know that the set of changes we are examining in the House today were a consequence of a review that was carried out by Dame Margaret Bazley. I think the reason that the review became so controversial was that she pointed out the failings in our publicly funded legal services system. Some quite wide-ranging accusations were made, and some of the actors and rogues in the system were a key part of her review. I think she brought that issue to the fore. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIt is right that the review was done, but I would be loath for anyone to assume that all of our publicly funded legal services are characterised by some of the individuals that Dame Margaret Bazley highlighted. In Manukau in particular, we have seen some incredibly good individuals working in that area have their reputations smeared by the very blanket accusations that were made. I think it is important that ultimately we ensure that public confidence is retained in our system. That perhaps would have been restored had Simon Power as the Minister of Justice spoken to the Bar in that area, but, unfortunately, he did not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAt the Justice and Electoral Committee we questioned the chair of the Legal Services Agency as to whether he spoke to the Bar in Manukau, and he had not at that time either. I would like to highlight that Lianne Dalziel and Charles Chauvel did make that effort, but the Bar itself was seeking action by the Minister himself or by the agency rather than just the Opposition, who took a key interest in the area. Although it is important that we act in an expedient way on the recommendations made by Dame Margaret Bazley, it is also important that we get it right, because this is an incredibly important arm of our justice system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWhat are the objectives when examining this legislation? The Government has pointed some of them out. One of them is managing rising costs, and that is absolutely understandable. We are looking at a legal aid system that is costing about $130 million per year, but most of the increases we have seen have been in the criminal justice area. Some particularly large and high-profile cases have sucked up a considerable amount of that. Also, there have been claims to the Waitangi Tribunal. That is one element that the Government is interested in tackling, but in my mind ultimately it is secondary to some of the much more important principles of ensuring ongoing accessing to justice and upholding the quality\u2014this was pointed out by my colleague in the M\u0101ori Party\u2014of the services that the public access via legal aid. Public confidence in that service is incredibly important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ELabour will, though, support this bill\u2019s referral to the Justice and Electoral Committee. There are elements in it that we absolutely support but we do have concerns as well, and I want to talk about both those areas. We are pleased that the Public Defence Service will be expanded. That was something that was launched by the justice Minister at that time in 2004, who, obviously, was Phil Goff. The Public Defence Service demonstrated that we could have a system of salaried public defenders that would standardise a high quality of defence and iron out some of those issues that come with a fee basis, and it was a good alternative to legal aid. My reading of what has happened in the transition with the recommendations from Dame Margaret Bazley and what has come through from the Government is that there are a couple of areas that may not have been covered by the extension of the Public Defence Service. I would be interested in Government members clarifying this for me, but I understand that the Minister of Justice announced back in April that we would see the service extended to Hamilton, Wellington, and Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAlso, I think Dame Margaret Bazley made a recommendation about Palmerston North. I am not sure whether the Government picked up that recommendation, but I am happy to hear whether that is the case. Obviously, she would have seen some reason for that, and I would be interested to see where the Government disagrees with her in that regard. I want to highlight that we are seeing another announcement about the extension of the Public Defence Service back in April\u2014and here we are again, talking it up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a62395e2d3074174a5325453ff76e086\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Just like the K\u014Dp\u016B Bridge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bf5e6c165a146df9cdba7433aa5ed90\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: It is like the K\u014Dp\u016B Bridge. How many times has the Government announced the K\u014Dp\u016B Bridge?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223650c916bac14ce3a4fe13fea8137c7b\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: About eight times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bee393a593f44cce9f9451fceffedec5\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps we will see the Public Defence Service re-emerge as a Christmas gift, given that this Government is such a fan of re-announcements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI also want to touch briefly on the fact that the Government is placing greater emphasis on the use of community law centres. I absolutely endorse that, but again I flag my concern that it is one thing to acknowledge the good work community law centres do but it is another to demonstrate to them that they will have ongoing, sustained funding. The Minister of Justice has continually given us that assurance, but as far as I am aware, they are still ultimately, in the funding framework they are under, at the mercy of the Lawyers and Conveyancers Special Fund. Because it is based on an allocation of interest being divvied\u2014I think it is a 60/40 split\u2014between a bank and the community law centres, it is not sustainable and consistent. The amount of time and energy that the network of community law centres has wasted on worry about the source of their funding is, I think, unnecessary. If we are going to acknowledge the good work they do, we should give them greater certainty in the way they are funded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI want to touch briefly on another of our concerns. Lianne Dalziel has already pointed out that it is one thing to say we want to cut down on the cost of legal aid; it is another to try to incentivise within our criminal justice system the constant use of not guilty pleas. Mr Garrett has to acknowledge that that is perhaps an unintended consequence of his legislation but a consequence none the less\u2014we have actually incentivised not guilty pleas. That will mean that we are likely to see an increase in legal aid. Does Mr Garrett perhaps propose that if a person ends up being on their third strike, they then do not get any more legal aid?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022187e4099-cc16-4bb8-8379-82c881af1724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8f35e413a0c4f658c23894f134fa1da\u0022\u003EDavid Garrett\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247ddd377b3654819927e7fda06c58420\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he has suggested that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229b344e0f3f39490e988dcc2a094e27f5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Legal Services Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 112\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00224b9c4d37ede84bbdbd464e5a4e317388\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b9c4d37ede84bbdbd464e5a4e317388\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: I move, That the Legal Services Bill be considered by the Justice and Electoral Committee, that the committee report finally to the House on or before 21 December 2010, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), and during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 187 and 190(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2ea2320664049ffaae2d0497b14c85e\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The House has received an amendment to the Minister\u2019s referral notice, in the name of Charles Chauvel. I will put the question on the amendment first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227d6229eec98345e2a9a9bc50a12f945a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That all the words after \u201CJustice and Electoral Committee\u201D be omitted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 69\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022984e0e597b974cec95a3877bb7fe7f96\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Legal Services Bill be considered by the Justice and Electoral Committee, that the committee report finally to the House on or before 21 December 2010, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), and during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 187 and 190(1)(b) and (c). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 69\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 52\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cf60a90a0b394620826b9ec1f1e19a85\u0022\u003EMisuse of Drugs Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002295019871204a4bc3ab204ee86994ce3c\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u00228b57cbcda0ef4fa3acdc5cffa897633c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b57cbcda0ef4fa3acdc5cffa897633c\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I intend to move that the bill be considered by the Health Committee, that the committee report finally to the House on or before 20 November 2010, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting except during oral questions, and during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 187 and 191(b) and (c). At the outset\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257877ecb9edd4de1970867cd03833457\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member, but the time has come for me to leave the Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206499a0aaf15488097b8a64157e94fa7\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: Let me return to where I was at about 6 o\u2019clock. I had just uttered the words \u201CAt the outset\u201D when the adjournment was called, so let me pick up from that point about the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill that I had just moved be read a first time. What I was going to say at 6 o\u2019clock was that this bill is not about a comprehensive review of drug legislation in this country, because, as members will be aware, the Law Commission is currently consulting on an issues paper that addresses drug legislation from a first-principles approach. Parliament will have the opportunity to more broadly discuss how we deal with drugs in this country, once the Law Commission has presented its final recommendations to the Government. However, this bill will achieve several important things. First, it closes off the source of precursor substances for the illegal manufacture of methamphetamine. Second, it makes targeted changes to the Misuse of Drugs Act that are necessary for the effective administration of drug control. In particular, it removes thalidomide as a controlled drug, as it is now more appropriately controlled under the Medicines Act. The bill also removes the exclusion whereby a hazardous substance cannot also be a restricted substance, it broadens the definition of amphetamine analogues, and it allows greater control over drug paraphernalia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EIt is generally widely accepted that New Zealand has a problem with methamphetamine. Methamphetamine is the only illegal stimulant drug that is commonly manufactured in our country. We have high rates of use, by international standards. A recent survey showed that just over 2 percent of New Zealanders aged 16 to 64 years had used methamphetamine in the previous year. Methamphetamine is a particularly problematic illegal drug in New Zealand. It causes significant harm to individuals, families, and communities. It increases the risks of cardiovascular problems, convulsions, and mental health disturbances, including paranoia and violent behaviour. Methamphetamine use is especially concerning in those with mental health problems, issues with anger, and a predisposition for violence. Gangs and other organised criminal groups are closely involved with the manufacture and the supply of methamphetamine. The trade of this drug is associated with significant crime and violence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003ESo it is vital that as a Parliament we take all reasonable steps to address the use of methamphetamine in New Zealand. In September 2009 Cabinet agreed to a comprehensive package of measures to control methamphetamine precursors, to break drug supply chains, to improve access and routes into drug treatment, to improve support for the community to combat this drug, and to provide stronger leadership by the Government. This package was announced by the Prime Minister last October when he launched a new Methamphetamine Action Plan, which aims to significantly reduce the use of methamphetamine, and consequently lead to a reduction of the harms it causes in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe next logical step that we must take to reduce the harm from this dangerous drug is to restrict the availability of the key ingredients required for its manufacture. These ingredients are the substances pseudoephedrine and ephedrine, with pseudoephedrine being the main precursor of choice for drug manufacturers in New Zealand. Members will be aware that pseudoephedrine is currently available over the counter in many pharmacies in a number of cold and flu remedies. However, the advice of the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs and also the Prime Minister\u2019s chief science adviser is that effective alternatives to pseudoephedrine are available. The harms posed by the diversion of pseudoephedrine to the manufacture of methamphetamine outweigh the need for the ongoing over-the-counter availability of preparations containing this substance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThis bill therefore reclassifies pseudoephedrine and ephedrine as class B controlled drugs under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975. This reclassification will have the effect of removing the over-the-counter availability of preparations containing these substances from pharmacies and will ensure that they are available only with a prescription from a medical practitioner. This will restrict the availability of these substances and make it difficult for potential manufacturers of methamphetamine to access the key ingredients to make the drug. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EReclassification of these substances as class B controlled drugs will also give the police and Customs Service increased powers to control supply, such as being able to obtain a warrant to intercept communications. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe penalty for unlawful dealing of class B controlled drugs is imprisonment not exceeding 14 years. The penalty for unlawful possession or use of these drugs is imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months, a fine not exceeding $500, or both. This reclassification will also require pharmacists and the pharmaceutical industry to comply with additional restrictions associated with a class B controlled drug, such as safe storage. In order to give industry time to bring into effect these changes, the bill proposes that the provisions relating to ephedrine and pseudoephedrine will not come into force until 3 months following the date of enactment. The bill also establishes the quantity or amount at or over which these substances are presumed to be for supply, at a level of 10 grams. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EI acknowledge with thanks the report of the Attorney-General on the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act about the implications of establishing a presumption for the supply of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine. The Attorney-General has raised some concerns that the quantities of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine to be presumed to be for supply are not consistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990. I fully acknowledge these concerns, which have also been raised in the past, that presuming any substance to be for supply may be in breach of one\u2019s presumption of innocence. So for this reason I support the Law Commission\u2019s review of this matter within the wider review that is under way into the Misuse of Drugs Act. I will take the Law Commission\u2019s recommendations in regard to the presumption for supply very seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EBut it is not the intention of this bill to second-guess the outcome of the Law Commission\u2019s review. Under the current Act, if a specific presumption for supply quantity is not set, then the default presumption of supply of 56 grams will take effect. Possession of that quantity of pseudoephedrine would be the equivalent of taking a full dose of cold remedy every day for 6 months, which is clearly excessive and brings with it a real risk of being used to make methamphetamine. The presumption for supply of 10 grams that the bill proposes was that recommended by the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs following careful consideration. I have accepted that committee\u2019s recommendation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EIn addition to providing for the reclassification of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, the bill also provides an opportunity to address four other important matters that have been awaiting legislative action. First, the bill, as I said earlier, removes thalidomide from schedule 1 of the Act in order to make this substance no longer a class A controlled drug. Everyone in the House, I am sure, is aware of the tragic circumstances of the 1950s and 1960s when thalidomide was widely and improperly used. But it is not a psychoactive substance and it has no potential to be abused. Its placement in the Misuse of Drugs Act is therefore an anomaly. Thalidomide is actually a medicine with legitimate applications. Accordingly, the Medicines Act 1981 is the most appropriate legislative mechanism to control it, with strict guidelines being made to prohibit its prescription during pregnancy. A notice in the New Zealand Gazette to schedule thalidomide as a prescription-only medicine will be issued concurrently with the passage of this bill to ensure that appropriate controls around the substance remain in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe bill will also correct a problematic overlap between the Misuse of Drugs Act and the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act 1996 by removing the exclusion whereby a hazardous substance cannot also be a restricted substance. The restricted substances regime is an important mechanism to place robust controls around low-risk psychoactive drugs such as so-called party pills. These substances would otherwise not have sufficient evidence of harm to warrant classification as controlled drugs. But the current wording of the legislation unintentionally acts as a barrier, preventing the scheduling of any substance as a restricted substance. So the bill\u2019s amendment proposes to remove this interference and to allow for the continued scheduling of low-risk drugs that would otherwise not be controlled as restricted substances. The bill also makes some amendments to the definition of amphetamine analogues\u2014again, a recommendation from the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EFinally the bill will expand the provisions for prohibiting the importation and supply of utensils used for the purpose of administering controlled drugs. The bill provides for notices to be made to make it an offence to possess utensils for the purpose of sale or supply, and prohibits the importation of incomplete utensils that, for example, require only the addition of a metal cone to burn cannabis to become useable. This will allow police and customs to move more effectively to enforce the utensils provisions in the current legislation and to minimise the visibility and the availability of drug paraphernalia. This bill seeks to address problematic drug use in New Zealand through a number of measures, and I consequently commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00225723318405e748ada1013f8cc917b589\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225723318405e748ada1013f8cc917b589\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I begin my contribution this evening by saying that I intend to move an amendment to the referral motion, and that amendment is to delete all the words after \u201Ccommittee\u201D. I have to say that it is a measure I take out of frustration and surprise, because the Minister who has just resumed his seat, the Hon Peter Dunne, is probably the person who I considered\u2014prior to this evening\u2014as the least likely member of this House to use a process for the consideration of legislation that was unnecessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThat Minister has been a stickler for good process in the past. He has prided himself on that and chided others for their abuse of a process that was unnecessary. He has hung out to the nth degree of time in opposition to\u2014and we will not worry about the policy issues\u2014the unnecessary use of urgency and to the extension of select committee sitting times when it was not necessary. But here we have that very same Minister using what I consider to be the proper process of Parliament and the select committee for an exceptional circumstance in what is clearly not an exceptional circumstance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EClassifying pseudoephedrine and ephedrine-containing medicines as prescription-only drugs, changing the classification of thalidomide, and extending the controls over drug paraphernalia are not things that need extended sitting time. I am gobsmacked that that Minister has changed his behaviour so quickly, clearly at the determination of the National Government. I think it is unnecessary and we should stand up against it. I urge the Minister to do what he has for many years lectured others about doing. He used to be a man of principle, but he is now moderating that measure of principle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EHaving said that, Labour supports the referral of this bill to the select committee. One of the reasons is that we want to play our part in what, I think, will be a near-unanimous decision of this Parliament. We want to play our part in doing everything we can to stop the damage done by P in our families, our communities, and our society. Labour will do everything it can to reduce the use of P and therefore reduce the damage that is done to individuals and their families. I have grave doubts about whether this bill will do that, but why not hand it over to the experts who will be able to appear before the select committee and give us the benefit of their wisdom? That is why we want to support this bill\u2019s referral to a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe other concern I have about this bill is that there is a real contradiction. We have this great leap forward by asking every New Zealander to get a prescription for over 20 percent of cold and flu medications because of the ingredients they contain and the possibility that they will be used for manufacturing P. But, at the same time, we know that the majority of P is manufactured from imported ingredients, and we are cutting back the resourcing for police and customs to do the job of protecting our borders against the importation of this material. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EAnother consideration I urge the select committee members to keep in mind is the additional cost that this measure will impose on ordinary New Zealanders who have done nothing wrong\u2014other than having a bad cold and wanting to get rid of it in a hurry. They want to be like the person in the ad who is sitting at the bus stop and not sneezing while the person next to him has a very bad cold. That is the worst that most New Zealanders will have done. They will have caught a very bad cold and they will want to take some medication to get rid of it in a hurry. But now they will have to get a prescription, and because they will need to go to the doctor to get a prescription, they will have to pay for the visit as well. So there will be quite an additional financial cost on individuals at a time when more and more New Zealanders are feeling financial pressure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EMore people are out of work, and more people are working reduced hours, and we have not seen the pay increases we might have hoped for in past days, but the Government will load another cost on to people. This measure will clearly be a challenge for some people, because in many parts of the country it is very difficult to see a doctor and people have to wait for quite some time. The waiting lists for doctors are increasing. Some people have moved to different parts of the country\u2014Wainui\u014Dmata, Timaru, Levin\u2014where doctors\u2019 books have been closed, so people new to town cannot get in to see a doctor at all. I am not quite sure how those people will get their prescriptions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EOf course, the even bigger concern is that one of the significant positive contributors to supporting people who might have drug and alcohol addictions is being taken away from them\u2014our mental health and drug and alcohol treatment centres. My colleague Iain Lees-Galloway, who I hope will have an opportunity to contribute to the debate later on this evening, has recently asked the Minister about the cuts to the St Marks Adult Drug and Alcohol Treatment Centre in Blenheim, the Care New Zealand clinic in Ot\u0101huhu, and Ashburn Clinic in Dunedin. Those places give support to people who want to get away from their drug and alcohol addictions. Those places are laying off staff because of funding cuts signed off by the Minister of Health. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESo here we have the so-called great commitment from the Prime Minister and the Hon Peter Dunne to wage a war on P. They will ensure that ordinary New Zealanders have to go to the doctor to get a prescription for cold and flu medication, but, at the same time, they are taking away resourcing for police and customs officers, and they are cutting the funding for drug and alcohol treatment. How does that package make sense? I do not understand how there can possibly be a serious war on P when the very parts of the picture that actually make a difference are being taken away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of other things I would like to mention. The first is the concern that the Hon Chris Finlayson has raised. In his view, the legislation raises an issue in relation to the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, because it sets out a presumption for supply. The message that Peter Dunne is giving to the good New Zealanders not only in his electorate but in mine as well is that if they go to the chemist to ask for a packet of whatever medication happens to have pseudoephedrine or ephedrine in it, then the presumption from the Government is that they are buying that in order to manufacture and supply P. I think that Chris Finlayson\u2019s concerns are justified; most New Zealanders do not do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe final point I want to raise is with regard to the regulatory impact statement. It is coming from a Government that has led the charge on regulatory reform, and the Hon Rodney Hide must be a bit embarrassed by it. The regulatory impact statement is meant to set out regulatory options; it is meant to look at all the options and the impact of those regulations. This regulatory impact statement states: \u201CThere are no other regulatory options proposed at this time since Government has already decided this course of action.\u201D What sort of regulatory impact statement is it? Its job is to provide all of the options, yet it states that it did not bother because the Government has already taken its course of action and made the decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIt seems to me that the intent behind the legislation is sound. As I said at the beginning of my speech tonight, Labour is 100 percent behind any moves to rid society of the scourge of P and the harm it does in our families and communities. This bill raises more questions than answers, and I look forward to the select committee considering it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u002228a36e22782c4699bce04401f910ef22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228a36e22782c4699bce04401f910ef22\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank goodness for the National Government for progressing this war against pure methamphetamine! Undoubtedly, this bill is part of the five-point plan to wage that war. Pure methamphetamine adversely affects every strata of New Zealand society. It is very interesting to note a recent Business and Economic Research Ltd study, which has shown that the cost of non-alcohol financially adverse effects\u2014that is, effects relating just to drugs\u2014amount to something like $1.5 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EClearly, the adverse effects emotionally and for family are just absolutely enormous. An example in our community of Pukekohe in the Hunua electorate is that over the last year or two, a chemist in his 60s has been caught supplying pseudoephedrine and ephedrine over a long period of time. This man was regarded as a doyen of society\u2014he was a churchgoer\u2014but he was suddenly found to be heavily involved in the supply of those drugs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EIt is important to reinforce the fact that the Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Adviser, Sir Peter Gluckman, has stated that there are safe and effective alternatives to pseudoephedrine and ephedrine; a variety of countries around the world have banned these products in mixtures for colds. This bill, among other things, classifies ephedrine and pseudoephedrine as class B drugs, which carries with it very, very significant penalties. As was noted by the excellent Minister Peter Dunne, the presumption of supply threshold is 10 grams.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed263e4207d64bc692c8743a219b3d2d\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: How much is that? How many pills?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b142c048a0144dbebe8647f64b5211a8\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is a very interesting point. Each pill contains about 240 milligrams; the maximum prescription one can have contains about 7.2 grams, so two prescriptions would amount to being over the presumption of supply threshold of 10 grams.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EI think it is absolutely right that the Attorney-General\u2019s report has come out and stated that this bill does indeed contravene section 5 of the Bill of Rights. But he cites the Hansen case, where he states that the majority in that case \u201Cconcluded that the control of the supply of illegal drugs is a pressing social objective which might justify limitations on rights and freedoms affirmed in the Bill of Rights Act.\u201D The Attorney-General states, with regard to that: \u201CAccordingly \u2026 I have concluded that the Bill\u2019s objective is sufficiently important and significant.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EJust to end up, I say that I look forward very much to rigorous and vigorous scrutiny in the select committee process. I commend this bill to the House as a very, very important part of the jigsaw in fighting the war against pure methamphetamine in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022367d98b8719e418a909777733fcb4451\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022367d98b8719e418a909777733fcb4451\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to follow the chair of the Health Committee\u2019s surprisingly short contribution on the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill, a bill important enough to have its first reading under urgency. Like the chair of the Health Committee, I look forward to there being a vigorous and rigorous debate on it at the select committee. There are a number of things in this bill, and if I get a chance to do so, I will cover more than just the question of the classification of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine. But given that to this point that issue has occupied the minds of most of the speakers, I will pick up where Dr Hutchison and my colleague the Hon Ruth Dyson left off, with the regulatory impact statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EUnder the heading of \u201CProblem definition\u201D, we actually have a problem. It states that the \u201CNew Zealand Police has reported that one in three clandestine methamphetamine laboratories detected contain traces of domestically sourced PSE. This does not suggest that 30% of methamphetamine in New Zealand is manufactured using domestic PSE, however Police consider that the levels diverted for illegal purposes is significant.\u201D So we know that not even 30 percent of the problem is caused by domestically sourced pseudoephedrine, but we know that the domestically sourced amount is significant. We do not know exactly what \u201Csignificant\u201D means; we do not know whether it is 5 percent, 10 percent, or 15 percent. We do not actually know the extent of the problem, the extent of the question, that we are trying to address with this bill. It is perfectly valid to seek out the sources of P and to try to crack down on them, but, as my colleague Ruth Dyson said earlier on, this requires a whole-of-Government approach. We are cutting back on Customs Service resources, yet the vast majority of the sources of methamphetamine are coming into the country illegally from offshore. That is where we should focus our attention, not on the locally sourced product here in New Zealand, of which we do not even know how much actually contributes to the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EFurther down in the regulatory impact statement we see that \u201CWhile a significant amount of PSE currently available in over-the-counter medications is considered to be diverted for non-legitimate purposes, the majority of PSE used to manufacture methamphetamine is illegally imported.\u201D\u2014a continuation of the same problem. It goes on to state: \u201CThis proposal may have the unintended consequence of increasing levels of illegally imported PSE, however Customs is concurrently increasing its capability to deal with methamphetamine and precursor trafficking at the border.\u201D Well, the Customs Service may well be trying to do that, but the fact of the matter is that the Minister and the Government are cutting its resources for doing that. So although this bill in itself is perfectly reasonable, sensible legislation that seeks to address a problem in our communities, if we actually look at what the Government is doing right across the spectrum, we find that it is shooting itself in the foot. This legislation will be a drop in the bucket in comparison with the cuts that the Government is making to those who are trying to combat the source of the real problem. The fact of the matter is that in dealing with drug abuse and alcohol abuse, we need to take a whole-of-Government approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that this bill comes up during the period of time when the Law Commission is considering its review of the Misuse of Drugs Act. Of course, we all look forward to finding out the results of that review, which may actually make this legislation completely obsolete. We could find ourselves back in here to rewrite the whole thing. The Law Commission actually got to the bottom of the problem in saying that harm minimisation requires \u201Ca broad and integrated approach\u201D, and that there are essentially three pillars to that approach. The first is supply control, which is measures that control or limit the availability of drugs, and that is what we are talking about here tonight. But there is also demand reduction and problem limitation. Again, when we look across what the Government is doing in those areas, we find that it is essentially undermining itself, and it is undermining the work that it is trying to do here tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWe have seen cuts to front-line services, and cuts to community-based alcohol and drug services that actually deal with the issues of demand reduction and problem limitation. We know that the Care NZ clinic in \u014Ct\u0101huhu, the St Marks Adult Drug and Alcohol Treatment Centre in Blenheim, and the Ashburn Clinic in Dunedin have already suffered cuts. They have laid off staff and they have reduced programmes that would actually deal with the other side of the problem. Supply limitation is just one part of it; there is a lot more to it than just that. So while the Government continues to take that approach, legislation like this will not have the effect that is sought. We just have to look at some of the other Government decisions: $186 million in low-priority funding has been cut, and that includes $12 million from mental health services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284c626a309a94ce989856b250da3e9cc\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3a5f66aed4846318d4f054de4ea13a1\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Twelve million dollars. There is no longer a mental health target. That is not a priority for this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIncreasing the amount of elective surgery and addressing emergency department waiting times, although they are in themselves very worthy, are like putting an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. This Government refuses to take a long-term public health approach to keeping New Zealanders well. If we were interested in keeping New Zealanders well, we would be interested in the mental health of our communities, and we would be interested in assisting those people who want to come away from drug and alcohol problems to actually escape them. But there is no drug and alcohol treatment target, either. This Government is focused on short-term, bottom of the cliff measures; it is not interested in real, long-term measures that would achieve the outcomes that the writers of this legislation claim to be seeking to work on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EAs I said, this bill is not just about pseudoephedrine. Some of the other provisions in it are relatively interesting and worth bringing up. The removal of thalidomide as a class A controlled drug is a sensible move. That seems to be fairly technical, but it does reveal some of the problems with regard to our legislative approach to mind-altering substances. What on earth thalidomide was ever doing in that class is a question that is worth asking. Yes, it had atrocious effects on those people who were born to women who took thalidomide while they were pregnant, and curbing those effects and making sure that that mistake was never made again were absolutely appropriate and very important. But thalidomide is not a mind-altering substance and never belonged in the Misuse of Drugs Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe problem of having an often irrational, confused approach to our classification of drugs occurs right throughout our classification of drugs and mind-altering substances. There are some fundamental problems with the way in which we classify mind-altering substances. Again, the Law Commission is looking at this issue and I look forward to some serious suggestions from it as to how we can take a scientific approach to classifying mind-altering substances, at how we can look seriously at the harm and the addictive nature of different drugs, and at how we can look seriously at the appropriate way to regulate and control those substances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EAnother area that looks to be very technical\u2014and I would not be surprised if no other speaker brings this up\u2014is the amendment to the controlled drug analogue provisions of the Act by adding the words \u201Cand/or alkylthio radicals\u201D after \u201Calkylamino radicals\u201D. That is designed to pick up on new drugs as they are developing. A particular class of new drugs is developing at the moment, and that provision is an attempt to catch them before they are developed. But again we have a fundamental problem with the Misuse of Drugs Act in that a new substance, as it comes on to the market so to speak, is, by definition, legal. Before we even know what the effects are\u2014the harmful effects and the effects on our community\u2014the default position is for these substances to be legal. Then we suddenly have an outpouring of outrage and shock from the community that we have new substances on the market. Our reaction is to prohibit them and clamp down on them, and that vacuum is then replaced by another substance that comes along. Something new will always replace them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe Law Commission has suggested a new approach to this issue, whereby new substances are, by default, deemed to be illegal. Should someone wish to supply or manufacture those substances, irrespective of whether it is for profit, that person would have to apply for a permit to do that. Those substances would then be considered on their merits, again taking a scientific approach to the actual harms and addictive properties associated with them. That is a very good way forward, and I hope that that part of the Law Commission\u2019s recommendations, which was brought up in its issues paper, is not dumped in the same way that some of its other recommendations were by the Government. The knee-jerk reaction that we had from the Government was thoroughly disappointing, as there are good aspects of that review that should be followed through on. This is a good bill. It is not the best bill, but we will support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9ea1193bfca4349a34091b0b8041560\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9ea1193bfca4349a34091b0b8041560\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party will not be supporting the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill. It is inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bebda83b26e343cf8da962fd7589766d\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Oh, that\u2019s right, they like drugs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022711b2f6fbbe04639ba596070016db9f0\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister of Corrections giggles, but she will not listen to serious issues about this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EWe have problems with this bill in a number of areas, and I will briefly go through them. The bill is inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. We do not agree with the shifting of the onus of proof on to the accused when it comes to questions of supply. Essentially this bill is fiddling around the edges of what needs to be rational and evidence-based consideration of how we manage drug law, and of what kinds of drugs we control and in what ways, based on the harms that those drugs cause to individuals and communities and on proper scientific evidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe Law Commission has produced its report. The Government has refused to address any parts of that report at this stage. The Government is clearly not taking a rational, evidence-based approach to drug law. Instead it fiddles around the edges with legislation like this that will not help and, in fact, will exacerbate the harm caused by an irrational, emotive, and politically motivated drug law regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIt has been good to listen tonight to other members talking about the issues as to where pseudoephedrine is sourced. The predominant part of this bill is about the control of pseudoephedrine. We know that only a small amount of the drug used in the manufacture of methamphetamine is sourced from pharmacies. This legislation, which controls access to the drug through pharmacies, deals with only a very tiny fraction of the source of the drug, which begs the question of why we would not spend this time on the dominant sources of this drug. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe fact is that most of it is imported. We know that the recent free-trade agreement with China has provided for looser importation rules. There was significant news reporting around free-trade agreements and their impact on the importation of the source drugs for methamphetamine. Those free-trade agreements allow for less consideration and less investigation of imports from China, yet a significant percentage of the source drugs for methamphetamine comes from Chinese imports. Where is the enforcement? Where is the effort to put legislation in place to deal with the dominant source of these drugs? It is nowhere. The Government does not want to deal with the issues around the free-trade agreements; it wants to maintain those economic opportunities. Therefore, it will spend valuable time regulating the very tiny fraction of methamphetamine that comes out of pharmacies, and it will not deal with the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EWe simply cannot continue with drug law reform that refuses and fails to deal with the actual problems that this country faces. In the fight against methamphetamine we need to take comprehensive action. That comprehensive action means looking at both supply and demand. The limiting of pseudoephedrine through this bill is really a very soft option. We need to move law enforcement in relation to the supply of this drug\u2014because there are only so many resources to do this\u2014away from, obviously, less dangerous drugs to more dangerous drugs and their supply. It is a no-brainer. If we have few resources we need to focus them on the most dangerous drug in order to manage the supply of that drug. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EI want to refer to an incident concerning cannabis. Just a week or so ago there was a news report that Detective Inspector Harry Quinn, who retired a couple of years ago after 37 years\u201437 years\u2014in the police, had called on senior police to lead a debate on the cannabis issue. As a police officer he had helped to set up the national organised crime unit and he had been involved in untold cannabis eradication operations. He took flak from the police for writing a report recommending the relaxation of cannabis enforcement so that warnings could be issued to adult users rather than scarce, precious police resources being used to enforce the laws on cannabis use and supply when so many other drug issues were pressing on those resources. Why would we not have rational drug law that focuses on what is absolutely needed, and take into account the experience of a detective inspector who spent 37 years working at the coalface? He agrees that shifting drug enforcement resources to where they are needed is what needs to happen if we are to deal seriously with the harm from drugs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EDetective Inspector Harry Quinn has a view on how to point resources at the most significant drugs and move resources away from drugs that do not cause so much harm, and I have to say that that model was suggested by the Law Commission. So it was supported not only by the police on the ground but also by the Law Commission in its review. But the Government has put its head in the sand and is refusing even to consider it. The Government is refusing to consider these rational options. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIf we want to look at reducing demand and at reducing the harm that drug use causes to individuals, their families, and their communities, then we must not exacerbate the harm. We should not be criminalising the users of these drugs. These people need help. We know, from all the research that is done, that users of illegal drugs will not seek help, because they fear the effect of the law. It is the single biggest barrier to people seeking help when they need it. Why would we have silly fiddlings around the edges of drug law, like this bill, when we know that if we could remove that barrier from people and from their families, then we would be able to contact those people, get access to them, and get them into the support and the help that they need? We could provide them with the health services and the drug and alcohol rehabilitation that they need. Their families are not going to dob them in, either. Even family members who can see the harm being done from the use of the drug will not contact Government agencies, because they too fear the impact of the law on that person. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EWhy would any rational drug law put up such an unnecessary, unjust, and harmful barrier to people who need help? Until our drug laws in this country are looked at from the point of view of harm minimisation, of focusing on regulation and control of genuinely dangerous drugs, none of this stuff will make any difference. The rhetoric around the war on drug use is just rubbish. Legislation like this and the current drug law regime simply provide a huge black market for a bunch of people to make a heap of money, and meanwhile the families on the ground are suffering and nothing changes for them. This law will do nothing for families who are desperately in need of help. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EPseudoephedrine is one of the areas where we need to take advice from a variety of experts. I have talked about the Law Commission, and I have talked about the police. Let us talk about the pharmacies. The pharmacies where pseudoephedrine comes from are already very strict about its sale. The Pharmaceutical Society is against the move in this legislation to further restrict it, because the society\u2019s view is that it is very worried that pharmacies will end up dispensing much more potent pseudoephedrine, which would likely increase the attacks on pharmacies. This legislation will put pharmacies at further risk. Where is the harm minimisation approach in that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EI turn to the restriction on utensils covered in the bill. Honestly, that has always been ridiculous. One of the things that we know around the use of utensils for the consumption of drugs is that often the utensils help to reduce the harm caused by the consumption of that drug. Further restricting utensils like this is a feel-good measure. It makes the Government feel like it is doing something, but actually it causes harm. This legislation will simply do more harm to pharmacies, more harm to businesses, and more harm to the users of drugs. It will not do anything. It will not regulate the supply of the component drugs of pseudoephedrine, because it is not focused on where the drugs mostly come from. The bill does nothing. It is a complete waste of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIn the meantime\u2014while we are sitting here, wasting time on legislation that will do nothing for families\u2014those families are hurting every day. Children are hurting every day. If we want to invest in our families, serious drug rehabilitation needs to be available to everyone who needs it. We need it for every single prisoner who has a drug or alcohol problem. We need to regulate the two most dangerous drugs in this country, which should come under the Misuse of Drugs Act. Alcohol and tobacco kill thousands and thousands of New Zealanders every year. [Interruption] National members are complaining about this, but the fact is that the two legal drugs that are the most dangerous and kill the most New Zealanders in this country are not regulated under the Misuse of Drugs Act. In fact, they are treated as a food. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThis country needs rational, evidence-based drug laws that will make a genuine difference to families. This Government refuses to put them in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccba5e80b8794434a2136fa0e88e2a79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccba5e80b8794434a2136fa0e88e2a79\u0022\u003EHon Dr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader\u2014M\u0101ori Party):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. I will take a short call on the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill. The bill amends the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975 and the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Act 2005 by inserting a complex drug vocabulary into the statute. The basic incentive of the bill is to reclassify ephedrine and pseudoephedrine as class B2 controlled drugs, remove thalidomide as a class A controlled drug, allow hazardous substances to be scheduled as restricted substances, extend the definition of amphetamine analogues, and extend the controls over drug paraphernalia. The bill prohibits the supply, importation, or possession for the purpose of sale and supply of a pipe, other utensil, or identifiable component of a pipe. That is the paraphernalia part. The bill also amends the Land Transport Act 1998 to reflect that thalidomide is no longer a controlled drug. Previously, it was an exception to the offences of driving under the influence of schedule 1 controlled drugs. As it is no longer a controlled drug, it does not need to be an exception to those offences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003ELet us be clear: the real purpose and value of the bill is to add to the campaign against P. Technically speaking, this legislation defines ephedrine and pseudoephedrine as class B2 controlled drugs, whether or not they are contained in a substance, preparation, or mixture. The key point is that the risk of pseudoephedrine being diverted into the manufacture of methamphetamine outweighs the requirement of its ongoing availability over the counter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EAnyone who has experienced the havoc that P wreaks on families and communities will tell us of the devastating impact this drug has on health and the well-being of a community. We have, however, done some amazing things in our communities in fighting the scourge of P in our midst. For years, besieged communities have run programmes responding to the effects of P and trying to help keep people away from it. The Patua Te Ng\u0101ngara programme at Hoani Waititi Marae is one such programme. I am proud to say that I initiated that programme and I ran it for 4 years, and it is still going now. We took that programme around New Zealand to educate people about P, and we stopped at various towns from Kait\u0101ia to Invercargill. We heard devastating anecdotes and we heard of situations from police and people attending those hui. We heard of mothers sending their children out to prostitute for them, so that they could get money for their P habit. A little girl tried to hang herself at school, and was cut down. She said she was on P, but she was not; she was prostituting for her mother who was on P. We heard of a man coming home from work to find a gang in his house with his wife who owed $10,000. We heard story after story. We heard of a man who wanted to shoot his son because he had caused such havoc within his family because of his P habit, and so on. It is really horrific. P is the most antisocial of all drugs, and it attacks society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EHowever, towns and communities around the country have declared themselves to be P free. There are r\u0101hui set up in certain places against P, and generally there is a spirit in the community that it is not good to use P. Even amongst gangs, there is some work being done on getting rid of P. Denis O\u2019Reilly is leading a lot of that work amongst the community. We know that children as young as 9 years old have been sold P in fruit-flavoured tablets. There are all sorts of different things going on. It is all scary stuff, and anything at all that stops the assault of P on our young lives has to be considered. So the M\u0101ori Party will support any initiative to curb the underbelly of the P industry. If this reclassification will help towards that end, then we will support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219767ece-60f1-4014-9855-74afaa34e699\u0022\u003EI commend the local councils for working together with iwi, police, and Government agencies to remove the pushers, cooks, and suppliers of this drug. But I hope that low-income families will not incur additional costs for doctors\u2019 prescriptions for cold medicines that contain pseudoephedrine, if those families are merely visiting the doctor to get those prescriptions only. The M\u0101ori Party will support this bill, and let the k\u014Drero be had at the select committee. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u002220d7148dcd6f4ce5ad62e48417d453a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220d7148dcd6f4ce5ad62e48417d453a6\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to speak on the first reading of the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill, which amends the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975 in order to reclassify ephedrine and pseudoephedrine as class B2 controlled drugs and remove thalidomide as a class A controlled drug, to allow hazardous substances to be also scheduled as restricted substances, to extend the definition of \u201Camphetamine analogues\u201D, and to extend the controls over drug paraphernalia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EEphedrine and pseudoephedrine are precursors of P. In the first 7 months of this year 23 kilograms of methamphetamine were seized, which is four times the amount seized in the same period last year. Members should make no mistake: this is a huge business in New Zealand, and it is worth hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. There are close associations with gangs and their clandestine operations in suburban homes, and let us not forget that gangs are associated with weapons, which they use to protect their operations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003ETackling P and the drugs trade is a huge priority for the law and order team, and I acknowledge the work done by the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Police. We have created a dedicated anti-drug Customs Service task force, and we have made it easier for the police to go after gangs and to go after the proceeds of crime. That is why we are restricting access to the precursors of P, which are pseudoephedrine and ephedrine. We have heard from Sir Peter Gluckman, the Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Adviser, that suitable alternatives to these medicines can be bought across the counter, though pseudoephedrine and ephedrine can still be obtained through a prescription. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI took some time out today and went to a conference in the Banquet Hall hosted by the Sensible Sentencing Trust. It was incredibly powerful. There was a wall of photographs of people who had been murdered\u2014young men, young women, and children. Many of those people, I would say, had been murdered when their assailant was high on P. Susan Couch was present at the conference. Her assailant, William Bell, was high on P; she was almost beaten to death, and he unfortunately killed three innocent victims. There was a picture of Coral Burrows, aged 6, who was murdered by her stepfather, Steve Williams, while he was high on P. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EP is a tragedy of huge proportions in this community, so this bill is a step in the right direction and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022 data-id=\u00225b64e43ed43d4d46a902b6567dbfd457\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b64e43ed43d4d46a902b6567dbfd457\u0022\u003EHon LUAMANUVAO WINNIE LABAN (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, talofa lava, and warm Pacific greetings. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on the first reading of the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill. As the bill is an attempt to get pure methamphetamine, or P, off the streets of New Zealand, I am very happy to support it going to the Health Committee. However, I have a number of concerns, which I will discuss later. For now I will discuss some of the effects of P and what it does to New Zealand and New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EAs we all know, methamphetamine is incredibly addictive\u2014more so than other drugs such as cocaine. The Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs has noted that users of methamphetamine move more quickly from initial use to regular use than other drug users, and are more likely to move on to dependency\u2014and we all know the results of that. Even if someone receives treatment and overcomes his or her addiction to P, the psychological and emotional consequences are likely to remain with that person for years. The long-term effects of P on the individual have been well documented, and include fatal kidney and lung disorders, brain damage, depression, violent and aggressive behaviour, and lowered resistance to illness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EBut, as we all know, the effects on the individual, although extremely harmful, are only half the story. The impact on the family and close friends of addicted individuals is devastating, not to mention the impact and effects on our communities and on wider society. We all know about the links that P and the manufacture of P have with crime. P is hugely profitable for gangs and for many other groups, including white-collar criminals, and addiction to the substance can spawn criminal activity in itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EThis bill intends to make the manufacture of P more difficult by restricting access to ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, which are some of the active ingredients of methamphetamine. Currently, pseudoephedrine is available over the counter in cold and flu remedies from pharmacies. Reclassifying both pseudoephedrine and ephedrine as class B2 controlled drugs will make their availability impossible in the future, will, hopefully, lead to restriction of supply to the manufacturers of P, and will help to control the prevalence of the drug. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EI will quote Iain Lees-Galloway, my colleague and the spokesperson on alcohol and drugs for this side of the House. He has made an interesting comparison with alcohol and has said that far more people are affected by harmful drinking than by drugs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EAs I said before, the bill is an attempt to get P off the streets, and that is enough to warrant its progress to the select committee, where I hope it can be further deliberated upon. But I have some concerns. Firstly, one of the things that my colleagues have emphasised, which I hope will be discussed, is the possible effect on the availability of cold and flu remedies to New Zealanders. Approximately 20 percent of cold and flu remedies available currently contain pseudoephedrine, so attention will have to be paid to securing effective alternatives to those remedies. Certainly, it should never be the case that New Zealanders who have never approached methamphetamine, or the manufacture of methamphetamine, have to pay a doctor\u2019s fee and a prescription fee for cold and flu medicine. If that is what results from this bill, then we have a clear case of most of the population of New Zealand being adversely affected by the actions of a small minority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003ESecondly, we are not sure, as yet, how much of the ephedrine and pseudoephedrine used in the manufacture of P is actually sourced in this way. It is likely that the vast majority of it has been obtained overseas and imported separately. Therefore it seems strange that at the same time as the Government is supposed to be restricting P manufacturers\u2019 access to their ingredients it is also cutting funding to the Customs Service and the Police. It is restricting access in one sense and opening up opportunities for criminals in another. To be effective, this measure needs to be combined with more targeted border enforcement, not a weakened Customs Service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EAnother area that I am concerned about is mental health services, where the Government is making huge cuts. That has led over the last 2 years to the restriction of services that would help with addiction and addiction-related problems, and provide support for families. Just this year $12 million was cut from mental health services. They were cast as low-priority services, and district health board funding was cut. Surely, in order to have an integrated and effective plan to rid New Zealand of P and associated problems, we need to be funding the services that provide the much-needed support that can help people remove the scourge of P from their lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EIn short, as the bill is a measure to help restrict the manufacture of P, I support it going to the select committee. It is hugely important that we do what we can to rid New Zealand of P and associated harms. But I do see a number of weaknesses in the implementation of this plan, including the failure to adequately back up this measure with increased border control and increased funding for addiction and mental health services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EOur leader, Phil Goff, and our law and order spokesperson, Clayton Cosgrove, when talking about this issue in October last year, said that Labour supported any move that got P off New Zealand\u2019s streets. There is a contradiction in resourcing, with most ingredients for P coming from overseas at a time when the Police and the Customs Services have suffered budget cuts. The Police and the Customs Service have been asked to do more with less. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000944\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279f87abf-aaab-44ff-96db-2e33d763670a\u0022\u003EThere is concern that law-abiding Kiwis will be forced to pay doctors\u2019 fees and prescription fees for cold and flu medicine because of the actions of a few. On the face of it, the innocent are being whacked with extra costs, and we are not sure what effect this bill will have on the perpetrators of crime. We question the depth of the National Government\u2019s plan to wage war on P, with cuts to mental health funding in both Budgets, and with the closure of addiction and treatment centres under this Government. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u0022556220d3a6634d859f7fde1c401a3637\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000945\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022556220d3a6634d859f7fde1c401a3637\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill, and I thank the Associate Minister of Health the Hon Peter Dunne for bringing it to the House. This is sensible legislation. It is designed as a response to public concerns about the harm of drugs\u2014in particular, P\u2014in our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000946\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EP is a very New Zealand problem, as we have one of the highest percentages of P users in the world. This legislation is a first step in closing off the sources of precursor substances for the illegal manufacture of methamphetamine. We know that the ingredients for the manufacture of P come both from the reconstitution of legal, over-the-counter cold and flu drugs and from the direct importation of pseudoephedrine. This bill reclassifies ephedrine and pseudoephedrine as a class B2 controlled drug, so that it is available only on prescription. That will make it much more difficult to obtain over the counter and, therefore, it will make it much more difficult for P cooks to get ingredients. Right now our police tell us that local pseudoephedrine is found in one-third of all P labs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000947\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThere has been a lot of debate in the community about the loss of these over-the-counter cold and flu drugs, and I have even heard of some families stocking up on these remedies because they cannot live without them. But research tells us\u2014and, indeed, Professor Gluckman, the Prime Minister\u2019s chief scientist, concurs\u2014that clinical evidence shows that safe and effective alternatives are available. But generally speaking, the public supports this legislation because it will greatly reduce the availability of source drugs. At the same time, New Zealand Customs Service officers are working hard to close the door on imports of pseudoephedrine from overseas. They are focusing on tightening border controls and are making it much more difficult for P labs to get imported source ingredients. It is true that many New Zealanders are in the grip of P. This legislation will make it more difficult to obtain this drug. Therefore, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022f96afeadb8a2403cb58a6f69190cd679\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000948\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f96afeadb8a2403cb58a6f69190cd679\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill. It is a very important bill. I guess it is one that the Labour Party supports. Who would not support a Government initiative aimed at reducing the harm from drugs? Parliament does a lot to try to minimise the harm from road crashes, and to minimise occupational safety and health issues in the workplace. On all sorts of things, Parliament, generally in unison, does its best to reduce harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000949\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThis Government initiative is slightly misguided, I think. It will reclassify ephedrine and pseudoephedrine. It will make people go to the doctor to get a prescription for what are very effective drugs to deal with colds and flu, which seem to be on the rise these days, even with flu jabs, dare I suggest. People will inevitably get a new strain of flu, and on it goes. These drugs have been developed, and they are effective. But they have been used\u2014or abused, I should say\u2014to make methamphetamine, and P in particular. It is a New Zealand problem, because smart chemists here have managed to develop these drugs for destructive use, quite frankly\u2014one could hardly say \u201Crecreational use\u201D. They are a curse and a scourge on our community. I recall that when P first emerged, I was flatting with good mates Dover Samuels and John Tamihere, and they were both distraught. As the story started to emerge, it became apparent that these illegal drugs were a real scourge on our M\u0101ori community throughout the country. I do not think anyone would object to any effective initiative taken to try to reduce the harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000950\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EOf course, another drug causes huge harm to society, and it is quite topical at the moment. It is called alcohol. It seems as though the National Government is not quite as determined to reduce the harm from alcohol as it is to reduce the harm from P. The harm from P is far more acute, but, thankfully, it is not used as frequently or by as many people across the country. We do want to reduce its usage, and there have been some good initiatives. The incoming National Government made a song and dance about what it would do, and I commend it for making this attempt, but this bill goes only part-way towards dealing with the problem. If we deal with the precursors purchased from New Zealand pharmacies, supermarkets, or whatever, then we might make some progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000951\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EAustralia has been trying to deal with this issue for some time. The precursors have been used to make different drugs. A system has been developed involving the Australian police and pharmacies, and it was being developed in New Zealand. I am not sure where it is up to at the moment, but it was an initiative whereby pharmacies would monitor the sale of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine products. They would look out for people buying them in bulk, and sometimes an odd pattern might emerge of an individual buying a lot. Australian pharmacies started to monitor that. With computers, it is quite easy to pick up patterns and pick up individuals, and, in fact, the police there apprehended many people as a result of that process. That initiative was being developed here; I am not sure where it is at the moment. I hope the Minister of Police, who is sitting over there, will get up and tell the House whether that initiative of monitoring pharmacy sales and contacting the police about suspicious sales is being done in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000952\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe reclassification in this bill and making people go to a doctor to get a prescription in themselves will not stop the problem, because we know that a huge amount of precursors is being smuggled into the country from other countries. I cannot say that it is just from China, but I know there have been some big seizures there. The point I am trying to make is that of course Labour will support this bill, because we want to reduce the harm from P and methamphetamine in this country, but let us get some consistency from the National Government. The thing that astounds us time and time again is the Government\u2019s inconsistency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThere is a view that imposing a tougher penalty and restricting what can be done will solve the problem. Well, the harsh reality of P and methamphetamine is that people become addicted very, very quickly. What happens if people experiment, have access to P or methamphetamine, and become addicted? Well, there are only three options for that person: they die very quickly from an overdose or harm themselves; they continue to use, and become criminals because they need money to buy the drug; or they acknowledge that they have a problem and seek treatment. If the third option occurs, where do they go? It is hard to imagine that there will be more places to go, when this National Government has allowed the closure of some treatment places throughout the country. I am sure that my colleague Mr Iain Lees-Galloway will point to the fact that the St Marks Adult Drug and Alcohol Treatment Centre has closed. Is that correct? Yes, it has closed. It was in Blenheim. The Care NZ clinic in \u014Ct\u0101huhu is another example. [Interruption] I could go on. That member\u2019s own patch of Dunedin includes the Ashburn clinic. Has it closed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000954\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb6fddbbc1dc4ae1aa391e525a3eabea\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Fine institution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000955\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bd3ed7015c34b249b9b38c6eae515fb\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Has it closed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000956\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263991070f40240f892779819e37104ef\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014alive and kicking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000957\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b80b848d53304a129e06e885ae9d098f\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: With restricted funding. Oh, I see\u2014ah, really. Well, there we go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000958\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228def001c26494ece8400918d2cab2ed1\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Service reprioritisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f8137daa0d645cca904b2aff43a5bf4\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, reprioritisation\u2014low-value spend. Spending money on drug addicts is not high priority. I guess that the community might disagree. The problem is that if we do not spend money on rehabilitation, those people continue to be serious offenders and go on to commit what are often serious crimes. My knowledge in this area as a former Minister of Corrections is that many of them ended up being clients of the State. We ended up paying $70,000, $80,000, or $90,000 a year to house them in prison, because they had committed crimes to feed their methamphetamine habit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe question I ask is whether the Government will commit more money to drug treatment centres and programmes, and, indeed, whether it will support the existing ones. It stood by and allowed, through the cuts to district health board funding, a number of very valuable organisations to cut back services that we desperately need. Drug use has continued to climb. That is a sad reflection on our society. I am not saying that it necessarily will, but unless this Government gets a little braver and does something about alcohol we will continue to need alcohol treatment centres.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000961\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fed2725573940aeb3847a0d59cde41e\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Spurious argument.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022264e8e7069ff40a0aae2c6baba551283\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: The member over there does not believe this. He knows full well, because I know he has a conscience and because he has worked in the health sector, how difficult it is to treat these people, what resources are needed, and what staff training is needed. When Labour members came into Government, we found that although we were committed to doing something about it there were not enough registered, qualified drug and alcohol counsellors, so we had to ramp that up. I hope the Government has continued that, but I am not sure. I do not trust its commitment to things like this. It will take the populist, easy option and say that it will deal with P and methamphetamine by shutting down access to the precursors and by making people get a prescription to get pseudoephedrine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000963\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThat may make a difference, but it will not make the big impact that we need in this area. We need a comprehensive programme, not cuts to benefits, a squeeze on accident compensation, and the mean-spirited approach that this Government has taken to people who are on the bottom rung of the ladder, for whatever reason. They may have been born into poverty or they may have been abused. There are many, many reasons why people need support. Unfortunately, too many of them end up using drugs, for whatever reason. We know that that is a fact. We have a moral responsibility to try to assist them. We have to identify the problem; yes, if possible, to prevent access to drugs\u2014and this measure is a step in that direction, although it is not sufficient in my view\u2014and to allow people access to proper treatment. These addictions are all-consuming. People live for their next fix. Although Labour members support this bill, we say that the Government needs to commit more funding to treatment and commit more funding to existing programmes that help people in this country who are addicted to drugs\u2014not just use the hammer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd136f89311a40819f3faadd637673ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000964\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd136f89311a40819f3faadd637673ee\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am very encouraged by the fact that the biggest criticism the Opposition\u2019s spokesperson on health has of the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill is that it is being referred to a select committee that will meet, work hard, and deliberate in a timely manner to report back to the House. I know members on the other side are a bit puffed at the pace of this Government, but I am afraid that pedantry is certainly not the answer. They will just have to keep up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000965\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI am confused, though. We are getting a really inconsistent message from members opposite. On the one hand they support the bill and say that they support every effort to get on top of the scourge that is P, but on the other they decry the fact\u2014as Ms Laban, Mr O\u2019Connor, and Ms Dyson did\u2014that some people may not be able to purchase their pseudoephedrine over the counter. They cannot have it both ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000966\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI am afraid, though, that that is pretty typical of a party that was asleep at the wheel when P came into the New Zealand lexicon about 10 years ago. Do members know what the previous Government did? It developed an action plan. This Government is about action, not action plans, and the results are already apparent. I looked at the 2008/09 financial review of the New Zealand Customs Service, and I was absolutely amazed to see that \u201Cthe interception of illicit drugs and precursors entering New Zealand became a new priority for the Customs Service in 2009.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000967\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afe8c6f8a34247378b82c709b504f905\u0022\u003EDr Jackie Blue\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s been here for a decade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000968\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3d69c7dfd144b558c49801aa72d8327\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. The problem has been here for 10 years, yet it has only just become a new priority under this Government. The results have been immediate. There was a 41 percent increase in methamphetamine precursor seizures. Last year the service stopped measuring methamphetamine seizures in tablets and began measuring them in kilograms. There were 800 kilograms seized in 2009, and we are heading for a tonne seized this year. Record levels of seizures are being reported. I reject the nonsense of claims by members opposite that cuts to the Customs Service and police exist, and that if they do exist, they have a consequent effect on their ability to make seizures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000969\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EAs my colleague Nikki Wagner has said, P is a terrible curse on this country. We are the second-highest users of P in the world. Although we are stopping importation of P, a significant amount of methamphetamine precursor is sourced by over-the-counter access. It worked when that access was restricted, and this bill will further restrict its use. It will improve things, and I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000970\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d625d4057ba84f6dafc23cd629381d12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000971\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d625d4057ba84f6dafc23cd629381d12\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Associate Minister of Health: I move, That the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill be considered by the Health Committee, that the Committee report finally to the House on or before 30 November 2010, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), and during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 187 and 190(1)(b) and (c). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000972\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b68a2d290c24cdbbf99b9a2256e41f9\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We have an amendment in the name of the Hon Ruth Dyson. The amendment is to the Minister\u2019s motion. The amendment is to omit all the words after \u201Cbe referred to the Health Committee\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ce14ccc8afec4d4e877bce5e9b0755f6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That all the words after \u201CHealth Committee\u201D be omitted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 7; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000973\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000974\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220b0562e39a9e4cf69bc157c56cf9e020\u0022\u003EInsolvency Practitioners Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226bb0290754ae490095e8a775221cddb0\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022015bc2960b864b0f96930cc898c95833\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000976\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022015bc2960b864b0f96930cc898c95833\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Commerce: I move, That the Insolvency Practitioners Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the Insolvency Practitioners Bill be referred to the Commerce Committee for consideration. The law currently provides for minimal restrictions as to who can be appointed as a liquidator, administrator, or receiver, collectively referred to as insolvency practitioners. Insolvency practitioners in New Zealand are not required to obtain any particular qualification or experience to register, or obtain a licence, or to belong to a professional body. Almost anybody, as long as they are not disqualified by limited criteria set out in the Companies Act or the Receiverships Act, can\u2014and do\u2014set themselves up as an insolvency practitioner. This has resulted in the situation where there is a small minority of individuals practising as insolvency practitioners who simply should not be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000977\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe Insolvency Practitioners Bill provides for regulation of insolvency practitioners through a negative licensing regime. Put simply, this means that rather than registering all practitioners, only those who fall short of expected standards of practice will attract the attention of regulators. The Registrar of Companies will have the statutory power to stop individuals from providing corporate insolvency services if they fail to carry out the duties outlined in legislation in a competent and honest manner. Insolvency practitioners are required to carry out skilled tasks and manage a number of competing tensions. These include striking a balance between investigating and seeking to void a business transaction, or to realise an asset at a good price, and completing insolvency processes as quickly and efficiently as possible. Winding up an insolvent business effectively requires practitioners to demonstrate sound judgment and good negotiation skills on a range of matters. It also requires knowledge of commercial law, investigative skills to quickly assess the financial position of a company often in the presence of inadequate financial management systems, and an understanding of the statutory obligations of company directors and practitioners\u2019 own obligations under insolvency law. There are currently a small number of practitioners who are continuously demonstrating incompetence, imposing significant costs upon creditors. However, beyond competency issues some practitioners are also debtor-friendly, failing to discharge their statutory obligations so as to favour the interests of the insolvent company, its director, shareholders, or themselves at the expense of the very creditors practitioners are supposed to protect. For example, practitioners may short-change creditors by selling a business or its assets to the directors or shareholders of the insolvent company, or a third party related to themselves, at less than market value. The asset could then be onsold at a later date at market value, putting money in the pocket of practitioners or insolvent parties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESuch practices could be remedied by introducing a positive licensing regime whereby all practitioners would need to meet a minimum set of standards to be licensed to practise. However, the cost of such a system would be disproportionate to the size of the insolvency practitioner industry in New Zealand, estimated to have fewer than 200 practitioners. This cost would effectively be passed down to creditors, as under insolvency the practitioner becomes the priority creditor and is among the first to be paid for services. This would reduce the money available to disburse to the general pool of creditors. The courts currently have, and will continue to have, the ability to remove individuals from providing corporate insolvency services. However, in an insolvency situation there is rarely enough money to be disbursed to all creditors, limiting their ability to challenge\u2014in the courts\u2014poor or dishonest decisions made by these practitioners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000979\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThis bill primarily aims to improve enforcement of practitioners\u2019 duties by providing a lower-cost way for parties to seek prohibition orders. The bill will expand the disqualification criteria outlined in section 280 of the Companies Act and section 5 of the Receiverships Act. These sections list the persons who cannot be appointed as practitioners from the outset, such as individuals who are under the age of 18, creditors of the insolvent business, and undischarged bankrupts. The bill will also disqualify practitioners who have been banned from taking similar appointments in other specified jurisdictions\u2014for example, Australia. It disqualifies individuals who are undischarged no-asset procedure debtors or subject to a summary instalment order under the Insolvency Act, accountants and lawyers who have been struck off from their respective professional registers, individuals who have been convicted of a crime involving dishonesty under the Crimes Act, and close relatives of the major shareholders, directors, auditors, or receivers of the company or of a related company. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000980\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EFinally, the bill amends the Receiverships Act to allow the court to make a prohibition order against a receiver for an indefinite period, rather than the 5-year limit in the current Act. This brings the court\u2019s powers to place sanctions under the Receiverships Act in line with its powers to sanction liquidators and administrators under the Companies Act. The Insolvency Practitioners Bill will therefore not only strengthen measures to remove incompetent, dishonest, or conflicted practitioners but also make it easier to avoid the appointment of such persons from the outset. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022715d6149869f417f8e1b0c6f187f027d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000981\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022715d6149869f417f8e1b0c6f187f027d\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to follow on from the Minister and to say that the Labour Party will be supporting the Insolvency Practitioners Bill. In fact, I welcome the first reading of the bill. I was involved in the Insolvency Law Review at various stages of its progress. I think it began in 1999 and there were a number of different aspects to it, as it traversed its way through the different processes, involving a number of discussion documents. The initial discussion document was produced in 2004 and there was a subsequent one in 2006. On both of those we actually sought to address the issue of insolvency practitioners, and it was something that I personally wanted to have addressed. I cannot say that I found particular support for the proposition from certain officials within the Ministry of Economic Development, but I did think that it was important. What was really pushing back from the officials was the fact that there were such a small number of people involved in this profession that it did seem to be potentially a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I had some sympathy with that point of view but I felt that it was important that we try to consult those who were interested in insolvency law reform generally, around this issue of whether we should have some sort of regulatory regime on quality control, as it were, for insolvency practitioners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000982\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe two discussion documents that actually raised this as an issue failed to produce a consensus, and that left me somewhat red-faced because, of course, the officials said: \u201CThere you go; we were right and you were wrong.\u201D, which happened from time to time, as it happens to any Minister, I guess. I still was very keen to see something tried, and we have the same issue around auditors, and again it is the numbers, the coverage, and our relationship with other jurisdictions. It is also about our best practice and where we stand internationally and where we might look with the principles of the International Organisation of Securities Commissions, for example, in respect of insolvency practitioners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000983\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe negative licensing option, which had not been promoted in either of the discussion documents, was my last-ditch attempt to get some traction on the issue and this was the one that we went out and did a targeted consultation on. This did not go out for another discussion document; the consultation paper was sent to the specialist insolvency practitioner stakeholder bodies, and they were INSOL New Zealand and the joint insolvency committee, which involved representatives from the New Zealand Law Society and the New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants. That was back in June 2008, and of course we were coming up against a general election at that stage, so it was a relatively tough order to put to people in the lead-up to a general election. But agreement was reached, and I think that what really sold the particular model the Government is now adopting, by way of the legislation, was that it was a cost-effective form of regulation. It was not going to break the bank, as it were; it was not going to impose unnecessary compliance costs on a very, very small sector, but it recognised that there were a small number of people out there who essentially were causing a major problem. The well-respected insolvency practitioners whom we have in this country were the first ones to tell us that they existed and that there was sufficient concern to do something. It was not sufficient to go that step further and bring in a positive licensing regime, but the negative licensing regime enabled action to be taken where it was needed to be taken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EAs I say, I think the number of insolvency practitioners drove what I saw as a pragmatic response to the issue. They say there are around 50 involved in full-time insolvency practice and around 50 others who take referrals from time to time; so we are not talking about a huge amount of people. I also want to give some public reassurance that this is not an indication of any great crisis in the sector, or that we think that the vast majority of insolvency practitioners have issues; it is an absolute minority. But because we are dealing with people who have great responsibility, at a time that is very distressing for shareholders, for creditors, for company management often, and for all of those different individuals who have concerns around the insolvency of a company in voluntary administration, in liquidation, or in receivership, I believe we have an absolute obligation to make sure that we have the power to take action, should it be required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000985\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI took the opportunity of the bill\u2019s introduction to grab a copy of the original Cabinet paper that I took through, which of course the Ministry of Economic Development helpfully put on its website on a regular basis. This enabled me to look at the regulatory impact statement and refresh my memory around that. I know that I have said this all this year, but I will not miss any opportunity to repeat it: it is a huge mistake to take the regulatory impact statement out of bills. It really is much better to have the regulatory impact statement printed with the bills. If that is not done, then one has to print them out separately as they contain the information we need to debate these issues in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000986\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI have made the point to the Minister for Regulatory Reform, and I know that he has an issue with this. The issue is that the regulatory impact statement is part of the Cabinet paper, and by including it in the bill it may not reflect the changes that have been made in Cabinet. Well, I think we could have some tweaking here. There is probably a germ of an idea where we could get that resolved. But, anyway, this regulatory impact statement, which I can take some credit for because I was the Minister who signed it off, is excellent. I think that everyone would be proud to have a regulatory impact statement of this nature. The reason is that it states the problem. It talks about the status quo and the problem. It talks about the size of the industry. It talks about the objectives. It also talks about the alternative options, which were completely missing from the bill that we dealt with before. There were no other options included in that paper, because the Government had gone straight to the decision without setting out the options. This paper sets out the first option of voluntary accreditation, the second option of mandatory licensing, the third option of competitive licensing, and then finally the option of negative licensing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000987\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI think that is absolutely the way that all regulatory impact statements should proceed. We have to state the problem and then set out the different options for addressing that problem, while also addressing the status quo. We have to ask ourselves what the cost-benefit analysis is, and what the risks and opportunities are in respect of the different options that exist. We then come up with a recommended option, and we justify it in the regulatory impact statement. That is why this particular bill is one that I fully support. It will make a difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000988\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI make the point that it occurs not just in the instance of a shareholder-friendly appointee. The Minister used that example, and it is a very good example of what can go wrong. But I also put it to the House that money has to be left in the company in order to pay the liquidator\u2019s fees. If the liquidator thinks that chasing some money, which does not have a certain outcome, may not leave enough for the fees to be paid, then that may drive a totally inappropriate outcome for the individuals who are relying on the receiver or the liquidator to do the best for the interests of the creditors and the shareholders. I think this is something that we will enjoy looking at in the select committee. I am very confident that in relatively short order we will be able to report back a bill that will gain the full support of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u0022e281d2dec93a4547abd71ae483c3af1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000989\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e281d2dec93a4547abd71ae483c3af1f\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to stand and talk to the Insolvency Practitioners Bill tonight. In fact, it is not very often that we get a bill before us that is exactly what the title says it is. This bill is literally about insolvency practitioners, and it is good to see the title of the bill reflects what the bill is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThis bill is part of the National-led Government\u2019s focus on improving the integrity of our financial systems, which is really important. It is important that we boost investor confidence, and that investors have confidence in our markets. It is especially important after the collapse of some finance companies that there is integrity, and that investors know that if an insolvency practitioner is going to look at a firm, they can have confidence that it will be done with integrity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000991\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EI would like to respond to the comments of the previous speaker, Lianne Dalziel. She made a couple of really interesting comments, and I am really interested to see what will happen in the select committee when we tease out some of the issues that she raised tonight. It was really interesting to listen to the previous Minister speak. She had the commerce portfolio and tried to implement the initiative. She tried to turn it into a bill, but she never managed to get to that stage, because of advice that she received previously. Now National has this legislation, which is in the same form that it was when the previous Minister looked at it, and the same issues still sit around it. I am really interested to tease out some of the issues that the previous Minister, Lianne Dalziel, spoke about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000992\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003ELianne Dalziel talked about why we need legislation for such a small number of people. In effect, from my understanding, there are only about 100 insolvency practitioners in New Zealand, like Lianne said, and of those a very small percentage are not particularly good. So if this bill addresses only 5 percent, then that works out to be five practitioners, which is really interesting. I ask whether the bill is a sledgehammer for a walnut, or whether there is more to it. I cannot wait to see the debate within our own select committee when we address those issues and get advice on them. If we are serious about boosting confidence in our companies and in our finance sector, we need those types of frameworks in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000993\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EWhen I looked through this bill, I thought we should just put it through as a regulation instead of creating a bill for such a small number of people. But then we have to ask where the framework would be in order to have that regulation. It would most probably have to be in the Companies Act, but it is not in there. So there is a real purpose for having this bill in place\u2014to ensure that we have a type of register in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000994\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EWhen we talk about a register, it is really a reverse register. It is a register for those practitioners who are barred or are not allowed to practise as insolvency practitioners, as opposed to a register to show who is a practitioner, which is quite unique. When we look at it, we see that it is quite creative. It keeps down the costs for all those practitioners, because they do not have to register. It is also very easy to find someone who cannot practise, because there will be such a small number of them on the register. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000995\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E I am looking forward to the debate we will have at the select committee. I am looking forward to hearing the submitters who will come forward and talk to some of the issues that have already been raised tonight. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9d55e3634fb4eb28500c22b5039f200\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000996\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9d55e3634fb4eb28500c22b5039f200\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to speak in the first reading of the Insolvency Practitioners Bill. As members have heard, Labour supports this bill. I thank the Minister Simon Power for carrying out the work of the fifth Labour Government in strengthening the rights of creditors, and I support his assertion that insolvent companies must be handled with integrity. I also commend tonight the work done by my colleague the Hon Lianne Dalziel and her involvement in this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000997\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe bill brings insolvency practitioners up to standard by introducing a negative licensing system that gives the Registrar of Companies the statutory authority to place individuals under supervision in, or to prohibit individuals from, providing corporate insolvency services for up to 5 years. Insolvency practitioners carry out liquidations, voluntary administrations, and receiverships. A minority of those practitioners are underperforming; they lack the necessary skills and competence, and repeatedly favour debtors at the expense of creditors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000998\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI think we heard tonight that there are about 100 insolvency practitioners in New Zealand, and that a mandatory licensing system would not be cost-effective. This bill aims to make it easier to prohibit or place under supervision practitioners who are unfit to practise, rather than to force a creditor or another party to have to go through the rigmarole of applying to the High Court to get a practitioner prohibited from practising. The bill will also give protection against self-interested practitioners, who in some cases have put their own interests, or the interests of the insolvent company, ahead of creditors who may be owed money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d000999\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ELabour supports any measure that strengthens and upholds corporate integrity in New Zealand. That is why the previous Labour Government recommended in August 2008 that a negative licensing system be adopted for insolvency practitioners. We are glad to see that the current Minister is carrying on that work. Labour\u2019s concern is that in cases where companies are made insolvent, creditors are left wanting; it is the protection of those creditors that is important. The purpose of insolvency law is largely to protect against resource-intensive court proceedings where creditors are forced to compete to recover their debt. We need to ensure that financial failure is dealt with, with certainty, clarity, and a clear set of rules for who gets what and in what order. We believe that this bill goes some way to addressing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAs I previously mentioned\u2014and I know that it has been mentioned by my colleague Lianne Dalziel\u2014there are about 100 insolvency practitioners in New Zealand, and a lot of trust is put into those few, who are charged with carrying out liquidations, voluntary administrations, and receiverships. Those processes require a practitioner to carry out skilled tasks with sound judgment and integrity, and it is important to note that that expectation is mostly upheld. But there are always exceptions, and it is the underperformers whom this bill targets. The current law provides minimal restrictions as to who can be appointed as a liquidator, administrator, or receiver, which means that practitioners with very little knowledge of commercial law and of procedures set out in relevant legislation can be appointed to manage or wind up insolvent companies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThat can lead, among other things, to the failure of practitioners to discharge their statutory obligations to creditors, so this bill establishes a system that targets practitioners who fail to comply with their duties, then places them under supervision and/or prohibits them from acting as practitioners for up to 5 years. This negative licensing system is being adopted as a more cost-effective option, rather than having it made compulsory for all insolvency practitioners to be registered\u2014a system that if implemented would cost several thousands a year and deplete the funds available to creditors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThis bill will give the Registrar of Companies the power to take into account failures that have occurred up to 5 years previously, and practitioners will be able to appeal to the High Court against a decision of the registrar. This bill amends the Receiverships Act 1993 so that the High Court may make a prohibition order in relation to a receiver, for an indefinite period. The registrar is able to fine, up to $10,000, those practitioners who do not adhere to their terms and conditions under the Companies Act 1993.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe bill will also require the registrar to maintain a public register of people who are subject to prohibition or supervision, which is information about practitioners that will be easily accessible to the public. Last week in the New Zealand Herald there was the story of Ram Rai, a former restaurant owner, who got into a dispute with liquidator Gilbert Chapman over the amount he was being charged. Through action in the High Court Mr Rai was successful in reducing the charges from Gilbert Chapman from about $63,000 to $25,000. In his summary, Judge Roger Bell noted the difficulty of the process of challenging a liquidator\u2019s charges, saying that most times it is not worthwhile for a creditor to do so, which to a certain extent leaves the liquidator in a position of some immunity. So this bill would go some way to resolving that problem, by allowing the Registrar of Companies to suspend incompetent or delinquent practitioners from operating in the insolvency industry, based on their prior actions or current performance. These reforms will enhance transparency and accountability in the insolvency profession, which is important, by ensuring that only skilled and competent practitioners are appointed and that returns to creditors are maximised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIt is important to note that the current lack of regulation means that although the profession plays a crucial role, there is no official record of the number of practitioners, or of their qualifications. We need to make the financial sector more open and transparent, which is what my colleague the Hon Lianne Dalziel strived to do as Minister of Commerce in the last Labour Government, and it is good to see that the current Minister is putting partisan politics aside and following in her footsteps. Labour wholeheartedly supports a licensing system that lets creditors know that insolvency practitioners are competent in their specialised areas of work, and that they are capable of maximising returns from financially distressed businesses. That is why we are supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u002235bdee67b4724cf2804609cbd9b43574\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235bdee67b4724cf2804609cbd9b43574\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Greens on the Insolvency Practitioners Bill. It has been useful to hear some of the contributions so far, and in particular to hear some of the background and the history to this. Clearly, there has been a problem here for some time, and this is the latest attempt to address that problem. The bill clearly sets out to create a negative licensing system giving the Registrar of Companies the authority to restrict certain individuals from providing or continuing to provide corporate insolvency services. The registrar would be able to take into account failures to comply for the previous 5 years and would be able to move to prohibit receivers from practising for up to 5 years, or require them to practise under the supervision of somebody who is acceptable to the registrar. There is also a provision in the bill for receivers to have the right to appeal any move to put them on a negative register, which is only appropriate, given that it could be a matter of livelihood for some of these practitioners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe nature of the problem being addressed is spelt out in the explanatory note of the bill, and that is that the process involved in liquidating companies\u2014that is, dealing with voluntary administrations or receiverships\u2014requires that practitioners possess a high level of knowledge, a high level of skills, and an equally high level of integrity to ensure the best outcomes for all the parties affected in these cases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EReference is also made to a general consensus among practitioners and observers that a small number of their peers cannot be relied upon to perform, or to provide, or to exercise adequate care, and that the small number of practitioners is constantly and continually underperforming. The law as it currently stands offered only very limited restrictions on who can be appointed as a liquidator, as a receiver, and it seemed possible, and perhaps even inevitable, that, on occasion, practitioners with very limited knowledge of commercial law or the procedures set out in relevant legislation can be appointed to manage or wind up an insolvent company. That general view has clearly been reflected in some of the comments we have already heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EFinally, it is clearly noted that some practitioners currently appointed repeatedly fail to discharge their statutory obligations to creditors and in ways, as expressed by the Minister of Commerce, that are certainly unethical and must border on the illegal in terms of the practices that were described. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe solution proposed in this bill is that practitioners whose work is deemed to be inadequate or who fail to comply with their duties to their clients can be prohibited from acting in this capacity, or be obliged to work under supervision. The argument is made that the sector is too small, having only a hundred or so\u2014or somewhere between 100 and 200 practitioners\u2014for it to warrant the establishment of a positive, upfront accreditation or licensing system, and that such an approach would not be cost-effective. The point is made in the bill that setting up registration or some sort of an accreditation system would cost something to the tune of several hundred thousand dollars a year per practitioner to operate, and that given that the practitioners are priority creditors in the winding up of a company this cost could further deplete the limited funds available to creditors. I question that view, although I would appreciate clarification on it. That would suggest that each practitioner would indeed take funding of several thousand dollars in each insolvency case, and surely the practitioner would be registered. There would be cost to maintaining a register, so in fact it would not be the case that in each event there would be a cost imposed on the funds available from a dissolution or a receivership. It is also observed that there will be some cost in establishing a register of people who have been banned or suspended from practice. Indeed, that cost would be borne by the registrar. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EAn appeal to short-term cost savings cannot disguise the key point in our key objection to this bill, which is that the remedy proposed is a classic \u201Cbottom of the cliff\u201D approach. It waits for a person to demonstrate his or her inadequacy, rather than establishing in advance that a person has the necessary qualifications, skill, ability, confidence of his or her peers, and integrity to practise and to deal with issues at this level. It is our view that short-term cost savings are seldom appropriate drivers for good policy. Clearly, there would be costs involved in the supervision of those who had failed to perform adequately and are deemed to be in suspension, or operating only under the supervision of the registrar or somebody appointed by him. So the dollar figure that has been suggested, of a few thousand dollars a year, to manage a positive accreditation programme is clearly a gross figure and not a net figure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe reactive measure of waiting for trouble to occur before responding will simply see costs transferred from the upfront creation, management, and maintenance of a positive accreditation system, and could quite conceivably lead to costly and after-the-fact court proceedings. This would seem to be opening a door, creating a possibility that only those creditors wealthy enough to afford to go to the courts will have the opportunity to protect their interests from bad receivers, from practitioners who lack integrity in their work. A positive accreditation system, upfront licensing, and some sort of regime to accredit individuals or companies is commonplace across a range of professions and trades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e06794f832d7417ab5c386eae1124cca\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Fifty people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6d8f826ad0d4eae8bb57cbb945f9659\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON\u003C/span\u003E: Fifty, 100, fewer than 200\u2014small numbers, admittedly, but the principle is such that no one would go to a barrister or a lawyer who was not properly accredited. Real estate agents are required to be accredited; tradespeople, plumbers, and builders are required to be accredited. Why would this significant area of practice be any different? The scale alone of some of the situations dealt with by practitioners should provide sufficient reason to demand an upfront assurance that the quality and integrity of the service providers have been evaluated. Receiverships are routinely dealing with millions of dollars worth of assets and/or debts. The consequences of inadequate or inappropriate decisions and actions on the part of practitioners can be devastating to the affected parties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EClearly, no licensing or accreditation system can provide 100 percent reassurance\u2014witness the fall from grace, on occasion, of lawyers and others involved in accounting and legal practice, and the like. Nevertheless, it seems perverse to put a reactionary, after-the-event mechanism in place in the hope that it will provide adequate protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe receiver\u2019s duties involve significant levels of trust and integrity. A positive licensing and accreditation system would not be out of place for a financial service in a country in which the general public have very little confidence in that industry. It is essential that such confidence is established. The Greens acknowledge that there is a problem to be solved, but we do not see the solution in this bill, and so will not support its moving beyond this first reading. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022b783ac18388145e89fa5fc56f5a5ffa7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b783ac18388145e89fa5fc56f5a5ffa7\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E First, I commend the Minister of Commerce for the work that has gone into introducing the Insolvency Practitioners Bill to the House. I also acknowledge the work that the previous Government did in this area, and its recognition of the real need for a more robust framework for regulating insolvency practitioners. I particularly wanted to make a contribution to the debate in the context of my own Nelson constituency, where there has been considerable angst about insolvency practice, and where the need for this reform is well illustrated. Insolvency work is not top of the popularity charts. Just as there are not many doctors lining up to be undertakers, most chartered accountants would much rather have the work of building successful businesses than being involved in the winding up of unsuccessful companies. There are all sorts of tensions that fly around insolvency. Success has many fathers, but failure is often an orphan. There are often issues over who specifically owns what, relative to directors of a company, and what they own personally. There are arguments over valuations and what is fair value, and debate over which creditors are owed how much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThose problems are compounded by the practical reality that the companies that are in liquidation will commonly have real problems over the accuracy of their records and in their management. The issue of insolvency practices has caused a considerable amount of press attention in Nelson, and I have received a considerable number of concerns about a number of insolvencies involving a new practitioner trading as Norris Management Services, or NMS. I want to illustrate the examples to the House so that as the bill goes to the select committee we can be sure that we get the detail of this bill right. The first part that causes me concern is that when this practitioner started up in Nelson, he advertised himself as being a \u201Chighly experienced insolvency practitioner\u201D, but it has worked out that he had no previous experience. He had no professional qualifications; he was trained as an auto-electrician. Prior to coming to Nelson, his only experience in liquidations was his own spray-painting business in Hamilton, which went into liquidation and left over $150,000 of debts to unpaid creditors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI am further concerned that this particular practitioner was convicted of fraud in Hamilton in May 1999, and was more recently convicted this year in the courts for illegal filming in a private residence. There has been some quite inappropriate goings-on. In the most recent liquidation, of Murchison Buses, the liquidator effectively sold a bus to his own company for nil value. There are also accusations that his partner is now the owner of one of the other vehicles that was owned by that company. When I met the insolvency practitioner and raised those issues with him on behalf of some of the creditors, the practitioner admitted that his company had acquired the bus for nothing, and, most worryingly, could not see that there was anything particularly wrong with that. That is not the only liquidation involving Norris Management Services where there are real concerns over the conduct of the insolvency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIn responding to constituency concerns about those goings-on I have been quite perturbed about how little protection or checks and balances there are where there are problems over an insolvency. I raise these issues quite deliberately in the House because a number of the parties have come to me, incredibly fearful that any attempt to raise issues would simply involve them in more litigation or threats. My greatest frustration with these issues is how little can be done. There are no checks or balances under the current law, and an insolvency practitioner is in a very powerful position. We need to be realistic that the directors of companies or businesses concerned will often be broke, and they will be in no position either emotionally or financially to be able to legally challenge a decision of an insolvency practitioner. Most creditors take the attitude that they are unlikely to get much; they cut their losses and simply move on. My worry is that disreputable operators are able to burn up most of a company\u2019s assets in their own fees, effectively transferring the creditor\u2019s assets to themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIn the case I have looked at in Nelson, the insolvency practitioner\u2014and I remind the House that this is a person with no qualifications\u2014is charging himself out at $200 per hour, which is $8,000 per week, and the largest share of the company\u2019s assets end up in the hands of that insolvency practitioner. I also believe there are real issues over the reporting timetables. I have had numerous complaints of creditors and debtors waiting for 6 months, 9 months, and 12 months to get any idea on the totalling up of the final position in a company. Although I respect the fact that we all want to ensure we do not over-regulate, we all have an interest in ensuring integrity in the way business creditors are treated, and to ensure the affairs of companies are wound up fairly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis bill provides sensible improvements. I particularly welcome clause 5, which disqualifies a person from being an insolvency practitioner where they have a conviction for a dishonesty offence. People convicted of dishonesty should not be allowed to work in this area. I also welcome the provisions that enable the Registrar of Companies to prohibit individuals from providing corporate insolvency services. Those are welcome measures that, alongside many of the other changes being made in the area of financial and investment affairs by the Minister, provide an increased level of integrity, from which all New Zealanders will benefit. This bill will be welcome news to those in Nelson who feel powerless to deal with problems over inappropriate practitioners. I support its first reading and I encourage the Commerce Committee to debate its provisions vigorously so that we can have a fairer and better system of solvency practitioners in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u002297a670111ea64a5aa6b66d6b0721f716\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297a670111ea64a5aa6b66d6b0721f716\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora an\u014D t\u0101tou. Firstly, I stand to support\u2014bizarre though this may sound to be\u2014many of the sentiments expressed by the previous speaker, Dr Nick Smith. Indeed, as he was on his feet I shared with a colleague of mine the thought that the colleague should observe Dr Smith outlining a case apparently about egregious wrongdoing\u2014of potential criminal liability. One of the virtues of being in Parliament is the ability to outline before colleagues of the House and, indeed, to the public via the media, those cases that warrant the attention of this House. Of course, what we should bear in mind upon making those statements is that facts have to be of a high order and that a remedy should follow closely behind them. But the case that Dr Nick Smith has outlined gives a great deal of impetus as to why we should support the Insolvency Practitioners Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI was reading several days ago about the appointment of receivers to Allied Nationwide Finance, the finance company associated with the organisation that\u2014in my view unwisely\u2014sought to assimilate the assets of the two discredited businessmen Eric Watson and Mark Hotchin. They, however, can wait for another day. This bill is important if we look at a case like that of Allied Nationwide Finance, where the actual investors are highly likely to recover most of their money by dint of a Treasury guarantee. It raises a question as to the quality of stewardship that will be shown by the receivers in such a case, because there is a balance to be drawn between how much time and energy they exhaust in the pursuit of monies in order to satisfy creditors, and ensuring that they do not exhaust time and energy to such an extent that they actually melt down the residue that might be available for the parties injured by the enterprise. Many of us have watched in our small provincial towns as insolvency practitioners and receivers were appointed by virtual associates and virtual friends. They conducted their affairs in such a way that we could see that although they were hiding behind the patina of the reputation of their profession, in fact they were also aiding the agenda of the people who had appointed them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI remember that several years ago the Inland Revenue Department\u2014if I am not mistaken it was the Inland Revenue Department\u2014and members of the accountancy profession brought forward a proposal that in matters of receivership there should be an unqualified ability for the statutory creditors to zoom in and take everything. I think that this bill lifts up the professionalism required of a receiver. We need to ensure that the people who have this role draw the right balance between the time and money available to pursue monies that are outstanding and also the ability to listen to and treat different categories of creditors with a degree of fairness. Receivership takes place at a time when there is an enormous amount of stress, marital discord, and\u2014dare I say it\u2014as we learnt in the 1990s, even death. We must bring to an end the damage done by dodgy secondhand-car salespeople, or by people like the friends of Eric Watson and other discredited members of the business community who have rorted over $6 billion worth of pensioners\u2019 monies through the imbroglio of the finance companies. This bill seeks to do that, and it is good that there is a shared level of concern between our former Minister and the current Minister about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EEarlier today we were debating the wisdom of expanding savings vehicles and improving the taxation treatment of those vehicles. It is all very well for us to talk about expanding savings, but in order for that to occur we need to have professionals whom members of either the business community or the ordinary New Zealand community can trust. Our desire to expand the scope for business to create new trajectories of wealth will not come to pass if the people in society whom we charge to carry out these responsibilities are not accountable, cannot be held to be accountable, or are unfit for the task. Receivers and liquidators are only one part of that; there are a host of other characters who have not distinguished themselves with a great deal of success or high-quality conduct in the funds industry\u2014the finance industry. I salute the architects of this bill and the people bringing forward the concerns of individual constituents, firms, and creditors, but this is really just a small part of a broader challenge that we have in New Zealand. If we are to ensure that the conduct in our commercial sectors improves, then those who have special responsibilities of an administrative nature need to be held to a high level of accountability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI have often wondered about the American model, which really moves very quickly into criminality. In the way that we have tended to deal with cases of egregious failure of a commercial\u2014a white-collar\u2014nature, unless there is a criminal issue, then we do not ordinarily think that these people should go to jail. That is a distinction that I have often drawn, as I have spoken and thought about these things. In the United States of America people tend not to dither. The wrongdoers, the culprits, are very quickly arrested, and in a remarkably short period of time they are sharing, figuratively, a cell with O J Simpson. I wonder, as we move to improve the quality of administrators, whether we ought to think about injecting penalties of that burden, of that nature, into our law. I have no doubt that had that situation applied, many of the people who have acted wrongly, or who were dodgy, in the period of time of the finance company breakdowns would be facing a wider range of penalties than they face now\u2014although a few of them are going to court, and then it is up to our District Court and High Court judges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWe have heard from various speakers as to why this legislation is very important. I would say that although it is important in terms of the breakdown of a company, we should see its importance also in actually buttressing and strengthening the pillars of the commercial community, the commercial sector, for the benefit of the generations coming through\u2014unsophisticated investors, and creditors like a constituent who came to see me recently. A building company went broke, and he had not registered, or possibly did not know that he had to register, his claim to $200,000 worth of tiles prior to the appointment of a receiver. Of course the receivers arrived, and his ability to\u2014legally\u2014secure the tiles now that the premises are under the control of the receiver is somewhere near zero. That tells me that in a time of economic buoyancy, when everyone had a lot of money and there was a lot of cash going around, we probably were sloppy\u2014and that constituent certainly was. But he is learning a very valuable\u2014and indeed highly costly\u2014lesson that once a receiver is appointed, if the provider of either a service or material has goods that have not been registered, then the prospect of that party recovering them is very, very slight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENot only does this legislation represent a very sensible advance but it is a reminder that we have to lift the quality and the standard of administration right across the commercial sector\u2014certainly in the event of a greater savings development, and of a greater level of interest in our economy, when money may be put into certain areas where there may be risk in order to grow the economy. I support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022311114f47cb14094940a62b01d0334ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022311114f47cb14094940a62b01d0334ca\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to stand in support of the Insolvency Practitioners Bill. Tonight we have heard some very interesting comments, and it will be good to see this bill progress through the select committee and to discuss it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe bill is part of a well-rounded framework of regulation that this Government wants to put in place in the financial and business sectors. When the credit crisis struck, $190 million in $100 notes was taken out of circulation, out of the banking sector, and was simply stored in private deposit boxes or under mattresses. That is all to do with confidence. The previous speaker, the Hon Shane Jones, commented that our drive for savings depends upon people\u2019s willingness to trust the administrators of those savings schemes. I believe that the Insolvency Practitioners Bill goes well toward shoring up the lack of confidence that has existed through company failures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWhen creditors suffer loss through a company failure, the last thing they want is a shonky insolvency practitioner trying to recover their interests. They do not want to go from one injury to another. This bill, in its many aspects, ensures that the quality and the stewardship of those practitioners are maintained at an incredibly high level. Stewardship is a good word to use in regard to this profession, because people are looking after the interests of other people\u2019s assets with skill, integrity, fairness, and timeliness. All of those aspects are incredibly important. It is my pleasure to support this bill as it goes through the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u0022c85943b55786421eb39490e602df53cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c85943b55786421eb39490e602df53cc\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call to support the Insolvency Practitioners Bill. The bill follows concern that up to 40 percent of the New Zealand insolvency profession might not be up to scratch. Submissions received on a 2004 Ministry of Economic Development discussion paper entitled Draft Insolvency Law Reform Bill suggested there might be as few as 50 insolvency specialists in New Zealand, and that up to 20 might not meet adequate standards. There are two apparent problems at the moment. Firstly, unlike the situation in many comparable countries, insolvency practitioners in New Zealand do not need to have any particular qualifications or licences to be appointed as liquidators and receivers. Secondly, the lack of regulation means that although the profession plays a crucial role, there is no official record of the number of practitioners or their qualifications. Therefore, reform in this area is long overdue. The bill results from work done by the previous Minister of Commerce, the Hon Lianne Dalziel. My congratulations go firstly to the Hon Lianne Dalziel for such a great initiative, and also to the current Minister, the Hon Simon Power, for implementing those proposals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe bill introduces a negative licensing regime for insolvency practitioners\u2014namely, liquidators, receivers, and voluntary administrators. Insolvency practitioners who do not meet the required standards of competence will be banned or placed under supervision. It also empowers the Registrar of Companies to maintain a publicly accessible electoral register of people who have been banned or placed under supervision. The new system is expected to assure creditors that insolvency practitioners are competent to undertake specialist work and capable of maximising returns from financially troubled businesses. A negative licensing system is designed to achieve that goal while avoiding high compliance costs for businesses. Under the existing criteria, any person over 18 years with sound mental health can be appointed as an insolvency practitioner; there are no requirements that insolvency practitioners have any particular qualifications or level of education. There is no way for creditors and others appointing liquidators to assess whether the person has the appropriate skills, knowledge, or competencies. To avoid delaying the bulk of the insolvency law reform process, the previous Labour Government\u2019s work on the regulation of practitioners was split off from the main reform process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EAside from negative licensing, two other options were considered for the regulation of practitioners. The first one was voluntary accreditation, which was rejected because it would not deal with the issue of preventing people with insufficient skill and experience from carrying out insolvency work. The second option was mandatory or competitive licensing linked with New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants membership. It was rejected due to its high compliance costs, and due to the fact that insolvency practitioners do not all come from the field of accounting. The bill also extends the automatic disqualification criteria in the Companies Act 1993 and the Receiverships Act 1993. The following people are prevented from being appointed from the outset: certain family members of a person who has, within the 2 years immediately preceding the commencement of liquidation, been a shareholder, director, auditor, or receiver of the company or of a related company; a person who has been banned from taking similar appointments in other specified jurisdictions, such as Australia; a person who is a debtor participating in a no-asset procedure, or who is subject to a summary instalment order under the Insolvency Act 2006; a lawyer who has been struck off; an accountant whose membership of the New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants has been revoked or suspended; and, lastly, a person who has been convicted of a crime involving dishonesty as defined in the Crimes Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EUnder the bill the new regime will apply retrospectively, in that the Registrar of Companies will be able to take into account failures to comply with the duties of a practitioner that have taken place before the negative licensing regime came into effect, but only up to 5 years before the date of notice. These reforms will enhance transparency and accountability in the insolvency profession by ensuring that only skilled and competent practitioners are appointed, and that the returns to creditors are maximised. The new system will apply to liquidators, administrators, and receivers, and will target those practitioners who lack the requisite skill and knowledge to undertake insolvency work competently, or who perform poorly in this field of work. Supporting this new system will be tighter statutory disqualification criteria and wider court powers to replace a practitioner who has a conflict of interest and lacks independence in a particular insolvency case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe reform in this area is long overdue, although this is by no means a major reform. Many interested parties, including practitioners, had hoped that a form of licensing would be introduced, which could have been grandfathered in. I note that the Government aims to have this bill passed into law and coming in to force in July 2011. I look forward to more debate on this bill in the near future. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022989a6c58afeb42ee860cf1580af4fdaa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022989a6c58afeb42ee860cf1580af4fdaa\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise to take a short call on the Insolvency Practitioners Bill. Having listened to all of the speakers who spoke before me, there seems to be a consensus across the House. I particularly liked the turn of phrase that the Hon Shane Jones used\u2014he congratulated the architects of the legislation. I take this opportunity to acknowledge the previous Minister of Commerce, Lianne Dalziel, as well as the current Minister of Commerce, Simon Power. He has done a lot of work, and I look forward to the tremendous amount of work that will be coming to the Commerce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe overriding focus in the commerce portfolio is to restore confidence in our capital markets after the huge global financial crisis we have had and the collapse of many finance companies in New Zealand, so that mum and dad investors in New Zealand can have that confidence back. Insolvency practitioners play a crucial role in mitigating losses to investors when a company hits difficult times. In spite of their important role, insolvency practitioners are not required to be licensed or registered. That is hugely surprising to me, especially when an insolvent business is wound up. Insolvency practitioners are required to demonstrate sound judgment and good negotiation skills. They need to have a knowledge of commercial law and investigative skills to quickly assess whether the financial position of a company has resulted from the company\u2019s not having had adequate financial management systems. An understanding of the statutory obligations of company directors and of their own obligations under insolvency law is also required, and when these people do not have a clue, we are in big trouble. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThis bill is part of the National-led Government\u2019s focus on improving the integrity of our financial system. The aim of the bill is to establish a negative licensing system for insolvency practitioners. Earlier speakers have also mentioned this. It gives the Registrar of Companies the power to prohibit or restrict individuals from providing corporate insolvency services. The number of bad seeds in the scheme of things is only small, and to set up a licensing system whereby all practitioners have to be registered, or licensed, and accredited would cost practitioners thousands to operate. This cost would be passed on to people who often do not have the money to pay it. Often the insolvency practitioners take out the money first, so that at the end of the day, the people who are in financial trouble do not end up getting anything. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe main change to the Companies Act 1993 applies specifically to the kinds of people who are disqualified to act as the liquidator of a company, or as the administrator of a company. Apart from those who are currently disqualified, I particularly like it that anyone who is a family member, shareholder, director, auditor, or receiver of the company or a related company in the 2 years immediately preceding the insolvency is disqualified. However, one class of person who would normally be disqualified has been removed from this legislation\u2014that is, a person who has a continuing business relationship with a secured creditor of a company becomes eligible to be appointed as a liquidator of that company. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe Registrar of Companies gets more powers in this bill. For anyone who in the past 5 years has failed to comply with the Act, the registrar has the power either to prohibit that person from practising as an insolvency practitioner for 5 years, or to make that person practise under supervision for 5 years. Anyone acting in contravention of such a decision is liable to the maximum fine of $10,000. What is really good for the public is that they are able to see a list created by the companies register of the people who are struck off\u2014people who are either restricted or prohibited from acting as insolvency practitioners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAs I said, this is a very short call as I am the last speaker. I look forward to the submissions in the Commerce Committee. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ff730254290b4d5f9693b413aa031985\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Insolvency Practitioners Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 111\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001043\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Commerce Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e4d66fa9f17747a393aa006bd1db9536\u0022\u003ELimitation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f5e556df9acf4070bc2551617c25045b\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5a66cd3933f433a8a420b8f8abccae2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5a66cd3933f433a8a420b8f8abccae2\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Limitation Bill be now read a second time. This bill was introduced in June 2009 to replace the 1950 Act that, as I noted last year, is creaky, outmoded, and long overdue for replacement. So this is indeed an exciting day for all of us because today we move a step closer to replacing the 1950 Act with a modern, clear, and comprehensive statute that will set out the general rules for determining the limitation periods for civil claims. Our rules are based on the United Kingdom limitation rules, which have been described as a \u201Cghastly network of unreformed legal fossils impervious to natural understanding and intelligence\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9486304feee426192191e548d5f3e0d\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Like the Labour caucus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cf3fbd6b1d64bf997d6a95d39128e10\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Some people may say that is the Labour caucus, but I am an issues politician and I do not like getting into personalities. The current labyrinth of rules can perplex even the most diligent lawyers. This bill will make them easier to understand and to apply. Important reforms are also introduced to avoid the sometimes harsh consequences of the current legislation. This bill implements the Law Commission\u2019s recommendations following its review of the law of limitation defences in 2007. The Law Commission also carried out two earlier reviews in 1988 and 2000. The Law Commission recommended a new Act to simplify and improve the current rules. This bill clarifies the claims affected by limitation provisions, more clearly defines the commencement of limitation periods and the exceptions or modifications to those periods, and addresses the current unfairness in the law that a limitation period may end before a claimant knows that something is wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe bill was referred for consideration in June last year to the Justice and Electoral Committee, which is chaired by that excellent MP for Whanganui, Chester Borrows. The committee has now completed a thorough examination of the bill and has recommended that it be passed with some further improvements and some clarifying amendments. I thank the committee for its work on the bill and for its helpful recommendations. The bill contains some complex rules, and the committee\u2019s amendments are consistent with the bill\u2019s purpose, which is to modernise and simplify the current legislation to make it more accessible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe bill contains 60 clauses, and the committee\u2019s recommended changes will affect approximately 18 of those clauses. The committee has also recommended inserting three new clauses in the bill. Many of the changes are of a technical nature to clarify the meaning or the scope of provisions. However, some changes are more substantive and are designed to address some problems raised in submissions or identified independently by the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EClause 16 is a very significant provision. It gives the court the discretion to allow monetary relief in claims arising out of the sexual abuse of minors, even though a limitation defence could be established. The committee has recommended extending the court\u2019s discretion to cover claims of physical and psychological abuse of minors by parents, step-parents, guardians, close relatives, or close associates. The committee observed that this type of abuse could have the same long-term effects as sexual abuse on a person\u2019s decision when to make a claim. Research suggests that people are more likely to delay or avoid disclosing the abuse if the abuse is carried out in a family setting. The committee has also recommended extending this new discretion to claims for personal injuries that develop over a long time that are not work-related injuries covered by accident compensation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe committee recognised that otherwise claimants may be unjustly time-barred by the new 15-year longstop defence, which is introduced by the bill. The new general longstop defence will enable a defendant to argue that a claim brought after 15 years is out of time, even if he or she did not know about the claim before then. In some personal injury claims, harm may not become apparent until much later than 15 years. Although these claims are likely to be rare, this will ensure that justice can be done in deserving cases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe committee noted that there are divergent views on the length of the new longstop period, particularly in light of the 10-year longstop in the Building Act 2004. The Limitation Bill is intended to carry forward the general limitation rules for civil proceedings. Although there are benefits in having uniform limitation periods, different rules may be needed to address special circumstances in discrete policy areas. For this reason, other Acts, such as the Building Act, contain special limitation rules if appropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe committee has also considered how the 1950 Act will continue to apply, and there are important changes to the transitional provisions that I am sure members will be very interested in. The new Act is intended to apply only to claims relating to acts or omissions after it comes into force on 1 January 2011. The current Act would continue to apply to claims based on acts or omissions before that date. This means that the current Act could continue to apply for many years, which may indeed be confusing. The committee recommended modifying its future operation by applying the new 15-year longstop to claims brought under the Act. There would be exceptions for some rare land claims, and claims where the limitation period is extended for disability or fraud. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe committee recommended that if a claims limitation period has ended before the new Act commences, or will shortly end afterwards, the claimant will have 5 years after the new Act commences in which to make the claim. The new longstop will not apply to any claim filed before the commencement of the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe new longstop will affect only those claims where a court applies the reasonable discoverability test. This test was developed by the courts to address the harsh consequence that in some cases a statutory limitation period ends before a claimant knows that the damage has occurred. If this test is applied, the limitation period does not start to run until all of the essential elements of a claim are discovered or are reasonably discoverable. Without a statutory long-stop, defendants do not know when their potential liability will end. To date, the test has been applied only in negligence cases involving building work and personal injury claims. There are differing views on whether the courts will continue to develop this area of law in relation to claims under the 1950 Act after the new Act commences. The committee\u2019s recommendation will mean that the old Act is phased out after 15 years from the commencement of the new Act, except in some very rare cases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EFinally, the committee recommended that the new discretion for abuse claims and claims for personal injury caused by a gradual process disease or infection not covered by accident compensation should also apply to claims under the 1950 Act that would be subject to the new longstop defence. This will lessen any unfairness that might otherwise result, and it will not revive any claims that are already statute-barred when the new Act commences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I thank the committee again for its careful and thorough work on some very, very technical legal issues. I am confident that the committee\u2019s recommendations will clarify and improve the law, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u0022d63d2b297966419783d4981623d5054e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d63d2b297966419783d4981623d5054e\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E For those people who are watching the live coverage of this high-rating, not too terribly late-night show, via television or the Parliament website, I say that there is no need for them to thoroughly understand a recent Supreme Court ruling in order to truly appreciate the importance of this Limitation Bill. The Supreme Court\u2019s ruling is the latest development in long-running litigation by the Commerce Commission against Carter Holt Harvey Ltd relating to the misgrading of timber prior to November 2003.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe Supreme Court has confirmed that the Commerce Commission is subject to the 3-year limitation period in section 43 of the Fair Trading Act 1986 when it brings proceedings for compensation on behalf of consumers. That issue may sound a bit dry or remote, but it is relevant to the Limitation Bill. What does not sound dry or remote is the nature of the case. I guess the mentioning of words such as \u201Cmisgrading of timber\u201D or \u201Cbuilding material\u201D will hit a nerve or push a button. I will come back to that case, Commerce Commission v Carter Holt Harvey Limited, either during the Committee of the whole House or at the bill\u2019s third reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ELimitation law seeks to balance two interests. The first is that people have the right to bring claims to court when they have suffered an injury or some loss as the result of wrongdoing by another party. The second and equally important interest is that we ought not to let the period in which claims can be brought run indefinitely. We should not let plaintiffs sleep on their rights. The longer a plaintiff waits to bring his or her claim, the harder it is for the defendant to defend it him or herself, and the harder it is for courts to reach a good decision. Limitation periods allow potential defendants to get on with their lives without the threat of litigation forever lurking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe bill implements the Law Commission\u2019s recommendation to replace the existing Limitation Act 1950 with a new and modern regime. The new regime will encourage claimants to make their claims without undue delay and will protect defendants from the unjust pursuit of stale claims. The Limitation Act 1950 is old legislation and it needs to be upgraded. The Labour Party supports the proposed changes in this bill. However, although Labour agrees with most of the bill, we disagree with the provisions on longstop periods. The bill provides for a longstop period of 15 years for most cases, but only 10 years for Building Act cases. The reasons given for the shorter longstop period in the case of the Building Act\u2014the complexity caused by multiparty building claims and failing memories\u2014can also rise in other claims, so a shorter period is warranted. It should be 15 years for all claims. Owners of houses with latent defects should have just as long as others to bring forward their claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe bill simplifies the limitation regime by providing a general civil limitation defence to most claims. The new concept of money claims is introduced, and it is defined to include any claim for monetary relief. That replaces the haphazard approach taken by the 1950 Act, which sets out different limitation periods for different causes of action. The limitation period for most or all claims will be 6 years after the act or omission on which the claim is based. There are exceptions or modifications to this period in cases of minority or incapacity, or if there has been an acknowledgment of liability, part payment, or fraud. A 3-year late knowledge period is being introduced because there might be circumstances where people do not realise they have a cause of action. Currently the limitation period for most claims runs from the date the cause of action accrued; namely, the date on which all the elements necessary to establish the claim first came together. That has been very contentious and ambiguous. Under this bill, the start date for most claims will be the date when the act or omission on which the claim is based occurred. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe bill provides that a limitation defence cannot be used in cases of child sex abuse, no matter how much time has elapsed since that abuse took place. There is currently no statutory limitation period for claims under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act; this bill rectifies that situation by bringing that Act under the definition of money claims and the 6-year limit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe Limitation Act 1950 contains the general rules for determining the cut-off dates after which it is too late for a plaintiff to bring a civil claim. The most common period is 6 years and applies to claims founded on contract or tort, claims for an account, or claims in respect of a breach of trust. The current periods are subject to extension in a range of circumstances\u2014for example, if the claimant is under 20 years of age or is of unsound mind, or because of fraud or mistake the claimant is unable to discover that a claim exists. There are difficulties with both the substance and the drafting of the 1950 Act. The 1950 Act, which followed closely the terms of the 1939 Act, is incomplete, misleading, and inaccessible. Judges have suggested that it is flawed and requires a complete legislative overhaul. The courts have made piecemeal attempts to cure the difficulties, but the overall result has been a lack of harmony. One major issue with the current legislation is that in some cases claimants can be barred from gaining relief by the limitation period before they even know they have a claim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EI look forward to more debate at the Committee stage and at the bill\u2019s third reading. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00229cfcac88b671448d95e4d051d7edd77c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cfcac88b671448d95e4d051d7edd77c\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in support of the Limitation Bill. It is great to see again some sort of understanding across the House of the validity of this bill and its worth to New Zealand, which we are all here to serve. The bill is another product from the Justice and Electoral Committee and the hard-working and efficient team that exists therein. The key message of the bill is that the goal of new limitations is to provide a defence to legal claims brought after a certain period of time. We have found over recent years that what has generally been a standard limitation period of 6 years is no longer applicable, and that a limitation can apply in different ways around the country. For instance, in Auckland where it rains a lot, boards rot quicker, so leaky home situations occur a lot earlier than they do in homes in Christchurch, for example, where new homes are built under the same building regulations but in a different climate. So it is important for purchasers of homes to have some assurance that if, for instance, it takes longer than usual to discover a defect in homes they have purchased, they will still be able to seek some compensation or damages against the parties responsible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EDuring the course of the debate in the select committee, a point was raised by the Hon David Parker about long-term delayed reaction injuries and the ability of claimants to access compensation or make claims in respect of those injuries. So the select committee worked with ministry officials to include that issue in the bill, and it is another very sound aspect in the bill. I look forward to the debate on the Limitation Bill, and I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022aaab88ba89d248fe8fb6333206be8e9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aaab88ba89d248fe8fb6333206be8e9b\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to stand to speak on a relatively uncontroversial bill in this House. That does not happen very often. In the last 2 weeks we have had to sit through debate on bills that were passed with a very slim majority and no real public mandate. The Government has pushed through many bills that formed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c28ff144785843a49a9a987dbe85da5a\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s called a majority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acc8312298f34fdeaf4a14f1f85e67cd\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what a funny majority it is when we look at the ACT Party. But it is all about\u2014[Interruption] Oh, they have woken up now. They have all woken up. It was very sad indeed that we saw workers\u2019 rights\u2014rights that had been hard-fought for, that respected workers and gave them dignity, and that had been based on trust\u2014decimated by the National Government, hand in hand with the ACT Party, which is in a terrible mess. But tonight, at a quarter to ten, under urgency, this debate is not one of those occasions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EGetting back to the Limitations Bill, as Mr Assistant Speaker Roy knows I would like to, I am one of the many Labour members who will take a call tonight to speak in support of the bill. We are speaking in support of the bill because it went to the Justice and Electoral Committee and we listened very clearly to what the bill was about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248d02f356ec84614b731092a6721947a\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Surely not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7552cc8f7db463bab0a00a86618a269\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I ask that member to look at the way in which his party voted on the workers\u2019 rights\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc28d6fe7c4545dbb5e325a98f6fb60f\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: On the Foreshore and Seabed Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229575c41062914564b6627d0a779a66c5\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, on the workers\u2019 rights legislation. That member lay down, had his tummy scratched, and did exactly what National wanted in terms of workers\u2019 rights in New Zealand. So that is quite enough from that member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b056031b92924f688321ed4836873718\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: This sounds like a Shane Jones movie, Lynne.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f990208d8ca4ee78c28edf0f9645679\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: My goodness, \u201CClark Kent\u201D rides again; it is just everywhere. I know that Mr Assistant Speaker would want me to come back to the bill. And I think that he would appreciate other members of the House not creating a diversion from what the bill is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7a6ef1369204643920861f49fcb3704\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us about the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267a5ff286c524e67a0f4a1b549511359\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Never mind the new spectacles\u2014\u201CI look cool.\u201D\u2014and never mind going back to the past. This debate is about the Limitation Bill. We are here tonight to debate the Limitation Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022551ff33e568547f78254ce59a82f0ce5\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: The National Party\u2019s limitations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f382abea8d004768a634e350818299aa\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I will need to take many calls on that one! But we are here to talk about the Limitation Bill. I think we should go back to the bill. I urge the House to do that, because there has been a little bit of slippage here. The Law Commission, the very hard-working and respected Law Commission, recommended that we replace the current 1950 regime with a new, modern regime. It is nice to see something modern happening in Parliament, is it not? We do not see that very often. This is one of those occasions where we are stepping up and moving forward, and the new regime\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226134be7bdb5a4365bdc3d0fe1ce03a93\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Yee-ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd5d571f2b9f4f5580e84817a4e52de3\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yee-ha\u2014will encourage claimants to make their claims without undue delay, and protect defendants from the unjust pursuit of stale claims. I think that is really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI acknowledge Chester Borrows; he is a very hard-working member. He is looking a little bit tired at the moment, reclining back in his seat. But we all recognise Chester Borrows for the great chair he is. Even though the members of the Justice and Electoral Committee do not have a meeting of minds at all times, Chester Borrows is a very good chair of the committee. A M\u0101ori Party member acknowledges that with applause. It is a very hard-working committee. I ask the member how many bills have been before that committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e60da3dd2724db59e1a31f727e74462\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, 17.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e62f92d4c9a64dd1819ae776bc2533d0\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Seventeen? I think it is more than that. It has been a very hard-working committee. Many members, including National members, often grieve that we are not referring the Sentencing Council legislation back to that committee. I think that would bring about a bit of passion. One of the sad things about the committee is we have seen piecemeal legislation on victims\u2019 rights stuff, instead of the enactment of that very good bill, which is languishing on the Order Paper. We get bit by bit from the National Government. At least this bill is going in the correct direction. I will not say \u201Cright direction\u201D, because most of its legislation goes in the right direction, but that is actually the wrong direction because it is a return to the right. But this legislation, limited though it is\u2014being the Limitation Bill\u2014is sound legislation. So I am very happy to talk about this bill in the House, and I would like to talk about\u2014[Interruption] It is not often I am happy in the House. I am actually pretty unhappy most of the time, because some dreadful legislation comes through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the bill is to provide clearer, more comprehensive law on general civil limitation defences. It balances fairly the right of claimants to have access to justice\u2014and if there is anything that the whole of Parliament should hold dear, it is access to justice\u2014with the right of defendants not to be disadvantaged by stale claims. There also is some clarity about the way that claims go. I can see my colleague Carmel Sepuloni, who is an incredibly talented young woman, nodding in agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281994cf84f154a8b840f6630fd738eef\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Hear, hear!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3a35e4a36a54d5cba44f2a578ea3993\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly. She is nodding in agreement, because she is sharp. She not only has picked up her portfolios but is really on to it in terms of justice matters. I will go to the report from the Justice and Electoral Committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3a3770444b94df2afe1470977933772\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: 4 more minutes to go, Lynne. You\u2019re all right. You\u2019re doing well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022208076ac21e649f4b10d1716285dd0bc\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the member to please not distract me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ad639730b884946b5b21a3305695d58\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s a lot to get through, isn\u2019t there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c7827a6b08647c78dee4b80424adde2\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: There is so much to say and so little time to say it. Give a guy new glasses and he goes crazy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the bill. Many people may think that the Law Commission did a fantastic job, and that the legislation put before the House would go to a select committee and come back without being amended. But, no, that was not the case. I acknowledge once again, as I usually do, the fantastic select committee staff and officials\u2014and I can see Chester Borrows nodding in agreement\u2014who gave us incredible support and advice. Indeed, many changes were made to the bill. They were not particularly controversial; they were more technical in terms of making the bill work better in practice. But there was one controversial change, and it related to the defence to a money claim filed after an applicable period. There were a lot of views about whether the 15-year longstop period currently in the law should be aligned with the 10-year period in the Building Act. The Law Commission wavered a little\u2014which is not like the Law Commission, but it did do so on this occasion\u2014between the two periods. In its final report in 2007, the commission concluded that a 15-year longstop limitation period struck the appropriate balance between justice for claimants and certainty for the defendants. The main explanation given for retaining the shorter 10-year longstop limitation period for defective building claims was the complexity caused by multiple parties and fading memories. National members will know about fading memories, will they not? But that was part of our deliberation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThe Labour members on the committee believed that those issues are similar for many other causes of action, and saw no good reason at all for shortening the longstop limitation period for building cases. We believe that it is more appropriate for the same longstop period to apply to all policy areas for which longstop periods apply. That was one area where there was not necessarily a meeting of minds. Once again, the Labour members led the charge in terms of progression and in terms of listening to the submitters who came along on the day\u2014well, not on the day; on several days. Unfortunately, they did not win the argument in that one area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EBut we support the bill. We are proud of the select committee report, and we commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3726d72ba8e409481be5941e006dfed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3726d72ba8e409481be5941e006dfed\u0022\u003EMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I will address the Limitation Bill on behalf of my colleague Kennedy Graham. The purpose of this bill is to encourage claimants to make claims for monetary or other relief without undue delay by providing defendants with defences to stale claims. The bill would repeal and replace the Limitation Act 1950, and it is intended to implement the Law Commission\u2019s recommendation to replace the current Act with a modern regime. Such a regime would encourage claimants to make claims without undue delay and would protect defendants from the unjust pursuit of stale claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EIn essence, three principal changes are envisaged in this bill. The bill would clarify a claim affected by limitation provisions; it would clarify the commencement of limitation periods and any exceptions or modifications; and it would address the unfairness that under the current law a limitation period may end before a claimant even knows that something is wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe Green Party supports the broad thrust of this bill and will vote for it. Many initiatives in it will improve matters. We agree with the recommendations of the Justice and Electoral Committee pertaining to clarifying several definitions, especially extending the definition of \u201CDisputes Tribunal\u201D, defining the terms \u201Ctrust\u201D and \u201Ctrustee\u201D, and clarifying the date for the filing of a claim. More important, perhaps, we support the committee\u2019s recommendation pertaining to the claims filed under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. Clause 11 defined a \u201Cmoney claim\u201D as a claim for monetary relief at common law, in equity, or under an enactment. That would have included a claim for monetary relief in respect of a breach of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe committee was concerned that the bill would apply a limitation period to claims for monetary relief for a breach of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. Such claims, if time-barred, should be subject to discretion. The inclusion of such rights claims in the new limitation regime reflects the recommendations of the Law Commission. It is consistent with international human rights law. A reasonable limitation period needs to apply to such claims. Defendants need certainty as to whether their actions might be challengeable, so we are pleased with the recommendation on that matter. There is also the issue of late knowledge. There are certain legal complications attached to this, but it was clear that a fraudulent action by another party was one reason that a claim acquired late knowledge and that this should be included as a qualifying factor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThe main point of debate in the select committee concerned monetary claims filed after the applicable period. There was a range of views over the merit of the longstop period as defined in clause 10(3)(b). There were suggestions that the 15-year limitation period should be reduced to align it with the 10-year limitation period prescribed in the Building Act. The Law Commission concluded after much deliberation that a 15-year longstop period struck the appropriate balance between justice for claimants and certainty for defendants. The argument for retaining the 10-year period for defective building claims was the complexity caused by the number of parties that might be involved and by the length of time, during which the memory of events becomes less reliable. The Green Party shares the view of Labour that these issues are similar for other causes of action. There is no good reason in our view for having a shorter longstop limitation period for building cases. It is an odd jurisprudence that would limit legal redress to the subjectivity of personal memory faculties. Having the same longstop period for all claims is more appropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003EThis is just a short call. The Green Party is satisfied that this bill will improve the law as it relates to the complex area of claims. We are happy to support the bill and we look forward to its further progress through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022d49c2a3b3e674d2692768a58440d214e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d49c2a3b3e674d2692768a58440d214e\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E I have been told that my friend Hone Harawira was going to take a call, which I must admit surprised me. But I come back to say what a great committee the Justice and Electoral Committee is. It has a fantastic chair in Chester Borrows, who does a great job as chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de62a7cf1ec1402cb47ef57f961b87a4\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: Lovely guy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e3a52432e5249d3890a5e921a20505c\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: His deputy chair, Lynne Pillay, is not bad, as well, come to think of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI pay tribute to Lynne Pillay. Members saw her during her speech tonight. They saw the cool, calm, academic rigour that she brought to the Limitation Bill. She was a sucker for punishment in the committee on this bill, with the way that she drilled down into the detail and kept challenging us time and time again to get into the detail of the Limitation Bill. I take my hat off to Lynne Pillay for her work on the Limitation Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EIt is great to be here tonight, speaking on this bill. Despite my five o\u2019clock shadow now, at a couple of minutes to 10, I am nevertheless really switched on to this bill and the important matters of policy and principle that we are dealing with. I agree with Lynne Pillay. This bill is about access to justice and that is why we are here tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EAs the Hon Chris Finlayson said, we are here tonight to do a noble thing. We are simplifying the 1950 Limitation Act and we are removing injustice. In the past it could well have been the case that some people discovered their claims after the expiration of the limitation period. Again, to come back to that great, learned expositor of the law Lynne Pillay, that is an access to justice issue. That is not to say that we are not balancing justice issues or the right of a putative plaintiff to bring their case on the one hand, and the right of a defendant to finality on the other side. There are those balancing of interests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EHere we are, just after 10 p.m. on Wednesday night, doing a noble thing for this country. We are debating important policies and principles. I could talk a lot more about this bill, but I say that it is a great bill and I am proud to be part of a Government that is bringing it forward and changing the rules in relation to limitation periods.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00222259ba84663144d7aa56895e3ac95298\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222259ba84663144d7aa56895e3ac95298\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I have to point out the irony from the member who has just resumed his seat. Mr Simon Bridges, the lawyer, was being somewhat patronising to my very learned colleague Lynne Pillay. He claimed that she did not apply any legal rigour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a3a3c0a4cc64283a6df99d945f27be2\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I take personal offence at that remark that I was being patronising. I normally am, but that speech was dead serious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4cd58f040044dae925d022cc97bc716\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4cd58f040044dae925d022cc97bc716\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the honourable member that this is a robust debate. I think he should take on board the words of his own colleagues and harden up a bit. One cannot be that sensitive here. If Ms Ardern had said that the member was being \u201Cmatronised\u201D, it might have been less offensive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223add9a270c504be383aca3757207d14b\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to put on record that I think this is the first time a presiding officer has told a member to harden up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI point out the irony in Mr Bridges delivering a speech that called on my colleagues to display legal rigour when he, the lawyer on the other side of the House, gave no analysis of this bill, whatsoever. I found that a little bit disappointing, because I expected a little bit more from my colleague in that regard. Despite all the comments he made about my colleague Lynne Pillay, I would have to say that no one on the Justice and Electoral Committee causes more of a stir in our meetings than Lynne Pillay. I do not think a meeting goes by without her defending the worth of the Sentencing Council. I want to mention the value of the Sentencing Council, which Labour will defend to the end. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI want to come to a number of more serious points on the Limitation Bill. Although there was a lot of agreement on both sides in terms of what this bill needs to achieve, there were about three areas of contention that I want to draw on. They will probably be discussed in greater detail during the Committee stage, but I want to flag them now. First off, I again highlight the fact that we were reviewing legislation that had its origins in the 1950s. Obviously, a lot of circumstances are known to us in the new, modern legal system, and they need to be addressed in any new regime around limitations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWhen we were discussing this bill we weighed up the idea of giving certainty to defendants and reducing undue delay with the idea of building reasonable grounds on which a claimant might have reason to delay the claim that was to be put forward. Before I get into some of the depth of the bill, I point out that we continually hear from the Government some criticism as to how long Labour may or may not have taken to put forward various legislation, and there has been the argument that we demonstrated undue delay in bringing forward a review of the Limitation Act. When we are discussing legislation from 1950, I think that that criticism could extend to both sides of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EHaving said that, I want to jump into those three areas of contention, which I have already pointed out and about which there was some lengthy and robust debate in the select committee. The first area of contention was the longstop period. I know that some of my colleagues have already discussed it. We had divergent views about a 15-year longstop period, as defined in clause 10. It relates to the time limit that would apply to one\u2019s claim, whether the claim relates to personal injury or is a civil matter. It could even relate to building houses, and therein lies the rub. When it came to claims around the Building Act\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6bbf885f6364cb3a3067b30e531a66f\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: Give Lynne another go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220737ffa7312441b9bcb143468c913076\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I tell Mr Borrows that I flag it again because I believe it was an important point. As chair of the Justice and Electoral Committee, he knows that this issue caused significant angst for the Opposition. Inconsistency in the law\u2014as any good policy-maker, like the good sir, will know\u2014causes some irritation. The Building Act 2004 differs from the Limitation Act in that it sets out a longstop period of 10 years. Some arguments were put before us as to why that was important. Some said that defective building claims, the complexity of the issues, and fading memories meant that those issues needed to be brought forward within a 10-year period, and that they would be known to the claimant within that period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe fact that the Law Commission, in three different reports extending back as far as 1988, I believe, wavered in its view on this issue points to the fact that there is room for differing interpretation. My hope would have been that we err on the side of caution with this particular provision and that we default to the important premise of consistency. That was the view that the Labour members of the select committee brought to the table, and during the Committee stage I would like to hear a bit more discussion about the inconsistency in that area and about what is added by having two differing periods. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe National Government has put forward its package of remedial action around, for instance, leaky buildings, and the main set, I guess, of cases was brought forth in order to explain why we needed a different longstop period. The Government claims that that is a robust package, so I would have thought that nothing would be lost by building consistency between the two. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe second of the three areas of contention I want to discuss\u2014there were a couple of other areas where that the select committee made changes, but, from my recollection, these were the three on which we made a significant contribution\u2014was the discretion to allow relief for the claim of sexual abuse of a minor. Clause 16 gives the court or tribunal the discretion to allow monetary relief to be granted in respect of a claim of sexual abuse of a minor, even when a limitation defence had been or could be established. We recommended specially amending that clause to cover claims of non-sexual abuse of a minor based on the fact that they could have the same long-term effects as sexual abuse. I think this is consistent with where we have been heading in New Zealand in terms of not only sexual abuse cases but domestic violence. We have extended our definitions of violence and of abuse in our domestic violence law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI think that there are a number of good reasons why allowing more discretion should extend beyond sexual abuse as well, because, at the end of the day, the question of whether monetary relief should be granted despite there being a limitation defence will be a judgment for the court, particularly when we are discussing cases that relate to minors. Those cases, because of the many psychological factors that are implicit in them, provide even more reason as to why we should look beyond what would otherwise be a longstop period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EOf course, we would not be standing alone in making such a judgment. As a select committee, we asked specifically to hear international evidence and good practice in this area. We heard that the United Kingdom and many Australian jurisdictions give similar discretion to disregard limitations in personal injury claims, which also include forms of abuse. So we are in keeping with other jurisdictions in this regard, and I think we have made the right amendments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI want to touch now on the third area, which I hope we will have more discussion on later in this debate. I do not know that we have resolved this issue, which is about the discretion to allow relief for claims of gradual process, disease, or infection. Of course limitation applies to personal injury claims, and it does factor in the idea of late knowledge, but we expressed concern that the proposed longstop period could impose an unreasonable restriction on a person\u2019s ability to claim, particularly where gradual process injuries were involved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe argument we heard back from other members of the committee\u2014and from officials to be fair\u2014was that because we have a no-fault insurance scheme, in the form of the accident compensation scheme, we would not see as many cases in this area anyway, because gradual process, disease, or infection is most likely to be covered by that no-fault scheme. We had some level of discomfort that that was taken as a given, particularly at a time when there has been so much disruption to what otherwise we would have perceived to be unmovable parts of our accident compensation regime. It has in fact been proved that they are movable. Policies can be changed and people can be denied coverage, and then they have no access of redress, based on the way that this bill has been drafted. I will come back to that element further on in this debate, because I do not believe that it is something we have reached an end point on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u00220c2ded92bce941748e5549ca0f0e19d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c2ded92bce941748e5549ca0f0e19d9\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call on the Limitation Bill. The purpose of this bill is to repeal and replace the Limitation Act 1950. As the Hon Chris Finlayson mentioned, the 1950 Act is creaky and outdated. This Act is based on the English statute of 1939 and that, too, was repealed long ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe Limitation Act 1950 has been reviewed thrice by the Law Commission\u2014in 1988, 2000, and 2007. It was recommended that this Act be replaced with a new Act. The Law Commission identified that the current law is unfair, uncertain, and outdated. It also identified that some of the important terms are not defined in this Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe Justice and Electoral Committee, under the able leadership of Chester Borrows, heard submissions, which were duly considered, and it recommended some changes. This bill makes limitation law more accessible and up to date. This bill achieves a balance between the competing right of access to justice and the right of the defendant not to be accountable for stale claims. In conclusion, I say that this bill will make the law more comprehensive and clear. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3e3d9649fa24f0a99dfd82af53dbc98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3e3d9649fa24f0a99dfd82af53dbc98\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise with some pleasure to talk on the Limitation Bill. This is important legislation that updates the current Limitation Act 1950, which obviously, from its title, is already 60 years old. I thank the Attorney-General for his careful consideration of the issues in this bill\u2014in particular, in relation to gradual process injuries, which is an issue that I will come back to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe Limitation Bill is important legislation because it tries to balance two interests. On the one hand, we have the public interest in enabling people who have been wronged to pursue through the courts a remedy to compensate them for the wrong that has been done to them. We want them to have that right, and for it not to taken off them unduly. On the other hand, we have an interest in ensuring that the quality of justice is good, by making sure that these disputes are resolved in a timely manner, before people forget, before witnesses die, and before documents are lost, because those things are important in making a good decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe also have the important public interest in making sure that the sword of Damocles does not for ever hang over the person who did the wrong; people should be able to move on with their lives after a reasonable period of time, if the claim that is hanging over them is not pursued. So the general rule is that people have 6 years to take their claim. If they do not take their claim within 6 years, then they lose their rights. That 6-year period currently runs from when the cause of action arises, but what that means is complex and I do not have time to go into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThat test is changed slightly in this legislation, but in changing that test we are also introducing a more clear exceptions policy. There are occasions when the normal 6-year rule would be unfair, because people through no fault of their own do not know enough of the facts to ascertain that a wrong has been done to them, or to know whom they should sue. So there is an exception when there is a lack of knowledge on the part of the injured person that would prevent them from bringing a claim within that 6-year period. The general rule has an exception that can extend that period for a longer period, but that longer period is in itself limited by what we call a longstop date, beyond which, no matter what one\u2019s rights may have been, the rights have been lost because too much time has elapsed. That is how we balance those two interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of exceptions to that. An important exception to the normal 6-year rule is in respect of minors who have been sexually abused. Obviously, they could be abused at age 3 and still be under the care and control of the person who abused them until they leave home many years later. If a 6-year limitation period applied in that case, it would be causing an injustice to the children who were abused in their homes, and who would have no effective remedy. So that is one of the public policy reasons why we have an exception in respect of sexually abused children. That exception is in the old Limitation Act and is carried forward into this legislation, which is a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere is another exception that we in the Labour Party are worried about. It relates to gradual process injuries. People might be exposed to asbestos in the workplace, and they might not know that they have been exposed to asbestos in the workplace until asbestosis develops a number of years later. If there was a 6-year limitation period, well, the illness could happen after those 6 years; if there was a 15-year longstop period it could happen even after 15 years, so those people would be without a remedy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe bill came to the Justice and Electoral Committee without there being an exception in respect of gradual process injuries. One of the justifications for that was that if the injury was work-related, or even if it was not work-related but accidental, the claimant would have cover under the accident compensation scheme. But when Labour members reflected on that at the select committee, we thought: \u201CWho\u2019s to know what future accident compensation rules will be? Who\u2019s to know whether some of these things will, or will not, be outside the cover of the accident compensation scheme?\u201D. It was notable to us, when we looked back at the old 1950 Act, that that Act had not been amended by the Accident Compensation Act of 1972. It sat alongside it, so that if people had cover under the Accident Compensation Act and it was stated that those people had no rights outside that Act, then that was covered in the Accident Compensation Act and not in the Limitation Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIt became clear to us that from a principled point of view we needed to do in New Zealand what they had done in Canada, which was one of the comparisons we had. We needed to have an exception in respect of process injuries, and if those process injuries were long term and they were covered by the accident compensation scheme, then that scheme would take care of them, and no one would have any other risk because their claims were settled under accident compensation legislation. But if they did not have cover under that legislation, then they ought not to lose their rights because of the provisions in the new Limitation Bill. We took that to the Attorney-General and the Attorney-General looked at it. I thank the Attorney-General, because I thought he showed wisdom and open-mindedness in being willing to look at that, and then in agreeing to that as an exception.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere is one other issue that I will deal with, because although Labour will be backing this bill because it is a good bill, I disagree with the Government in respect of having a longstop liability period for non-building claims that is different from the period for building claims. We are saying that we will have a longstop liability period for 15 years, except for some of those rare exceptions relating to sexual abuse of minors and gradual process injuries. After that 15 years, even if people did not have knowledge to bring their claims earlier, they will lose all of their rights. But in respect of building cases, we are saying that we are sorry but people will not get the same longstop liability of 15 years; they will get only 10 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe first point I make is that this is irrelevant to the leaky building issues in Auckland, because the Limitation Bill that we are considering will apply only to causes of action that arise from the date the bill is passed, so it will not apply to those leaky buildings that we already have in Auckland. So the difference between the 10-year and 15-year period in respect of building cases is irrelevant to the problems that we already have in Auckland, and elsewhere, with leaky buildings. But I see no difference in principle between a building claim, a professional negligence claim, and a claim where someone acting as my agent could without my knowledge defraud me of some of the money that was due to me, the principal, from that agent. In that case, if an agent is defrauding me I have 15 years to pursue my claim\u2014up to a 15-year longstop period\u2014if knowledge has not been reasonably available to me that would have enabled me to bring my claim earlier. Yet we say in respect of a building claim that we can have only 10 years; I do not understand the logical reason for the difference. A failure in the foundations of a house can happen after 10 years but not be apparent before that, and after that 10-year period it will become the problem of the building owner because the longstop liability period will click in at 10 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe justification we were given at the select committee for the difference was that building claims had complexity because multiple parties were involved. We have the architect, the engineer, the builder, and maybe the concrete layer or someone who has put the steel work into the foundations inappropriately, so it is true that there are multiple parties. OK, that might add a bit more complexity than would be the case in respect of a simple action between a principal and a single agent, but there are plenty of cases where there is complexity as to fact, and if someone cannot prove a case on the balance of probabilities\u2014in a case of complex facts such as a building case\u2014in that period between 10 and 15 years, that person\u2019s case will fail. I cannot see the reason in principle for having a different longstop liability period for people who suffer a failing building. That could be the loss of the most important asset in their lives; the foundation of the house could fail and the house could be largely worthless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe other argument we heard was that in Building Act cases we have fading memories. But we have fading memories in all old cases, so I do not see a difference in principle there. I am not sure whether it will be in the scope of this bill, because that is something I will need to check with the Office of the Clerk, but assuming it is within the scope of this bill, I will be promoting at the Committee stage an amendment to have the same longstop liability period applying to Building Act cases as to all other cases, because I do not see the difference in principle. We can argue that the periods should all be 10 years: that Building Act cases should have a 10-year longstop period and that other cases should too. But we say that they should all be consistent; they should all have either 10 years or 15 years as their longstop period. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u002273e5476513dd47b3a346809df9326c5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273e5476513dd47b3a346809df9326c5f\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA (National):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker Barker. Huri noa i t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. I am pleased to stand to take a short call on the Limitation Bill. Indeed, I was motivated to rush to the House once I realised that the Attorney-General was, as usual, giving his comprehensive and incisive rendition of this bill\u2019s coverage, its heritage, and its legacy. It is important that we have the opportunity to hear that kind of leadership in the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c864cc5b9a674340820e6ad83eea1f56\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: There are no Cabinet jobs going at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282e03ad1d8384a3b848810559ef7cfd0\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and to inspire that response from Mr Hipkins. Our backbench members were motivated to get here as soon as possible to support the passage of this legislation through the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EThis is an important bill. As my colleague Simon Bridges said earlier, and as members opposite have reiterated, the bill sets out to balance the rights of both the claimant and the defendant. The allocation and management of rights is an issue that continues to vex Parliament after Parliament, and this bill takes the opportunity to clarify the area of legislation that allows claimants to bring their causes of action before the court, and allows defendants to know that they will not be subject to claims long past the time when one might say it is fair for them still to be heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EAs previous speakers have noted, the Law Commission has reported on this bill three times: first in 1998, then in 2000, and again in 2007. The 1950 Limitation Act has exercised the Law Commission somewhat in that it has taken such a long period of time to finally bring the bill to the point where it is now at. Legislation is imminently to be passed, and it will give greater certainty to people who are engaged in the process of having their rights heard, balanced, and judged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EFar be it from me to continue to rehearse the technical detail that our Attorney-General has covered so well. I congratulate the chair of the Justice and Electoral Committee, Chester Borrows, who has shepherded the bill through the process in the careful and cautious, yet comprehensive, way that characterises\u2014she said, alliteratively\u2014all the work that has to be done by the chair. The chair also carries a significant body of work. I think we have heard tonight that 17 bills are before the very hard-working Justice and Electoral Committee, to the membership of which I have only recently been promoted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022738c2ad9ef4e48ad83c267c07b0c1a46\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Promoted!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022421d84dc97114fdfb983c6ddf773fd28\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: Of course other members, too, if they try hard enough, could also find themselves, one day, on the Justice and Electoral Committee, although that possibly does not apply to everyone in the House tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge the deputy chair, who stands ready to support, at a moment\u2019s notice, the work the chair has done. As we have noted in the House earlier, we are constantly challenged by the diminutive Ms Pillay, who has a giant concern for, and commitment to, the Sentencing Council. Of course, we also have the incisive Mr Quinn and his rapid, thrusting, and razor-sharp interventions, which continue to keep us on our toes, and each thrust is parried by the inimitable Mr Parker. It has been an absolute joy to be a part of that process, and I look forward to further debate on the bill this evening. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bf173d23125944a7820919e46f8d789e\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca81425bfeb64dda96dc7f43870ac630\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca81425bfeb64dda96dc7f43870ac630\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the Committee stage of the Limitation Bill to be taken as one question, with multiple calls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287e5cec5d3a94cb5aa72451fc64fa00b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought that the provisions be taken as one debate\u2014that is, Parts 1 to 4, the schedule, and clauses 1 and 2. Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223ce2b6c0f55d422e8b79d8fc939e3c89\u0022\u003EParts 1 to 4, schedule, and clauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u00224ef63d8174864d798b28838def654dc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ef63d8174864d798b28838def654dc0\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E I will not speak at any length on Part 1, which simply outlines the preliminary provisions, but I do want to say something about Part 2, which is, in many respects, the core of the bill and sets out that there are to be defences to money claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EPeople will have 6 years from the events on which a claim is based to bring their claim before a defendant can argue that the claim is time-barred. If the claimant did not know about the claim within this time, he or she has an extra 3-year late knowledge period in which to make the claim. However, and this has been referred to by a number of speakers in the second reading debate, after 15 years from the date of those events, the defendant can argue that the claim is time-barred, and money claims are defined in clause 11. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI hear what Mr Parker said in his second reading speech, and I indicate to him that I was grateful for the very useful discussion we had about clause 16, which I think improved it. But I do take issue with him over the different periods. It all depends, at the end of the day, on the policy considerations governing a particular piece of legislation. This bill sets out the general rules of limitation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThere are, nonetheless, specific limitation periods in specific statutes for particular policy reasons. So, for example, in the Fair Trading Act, the period in which one can bring a claim is 3 years. In the Commerce Act there are, as I recall, a number of different periods because of the requirements of that legislation. In the Family Protection Act there is a particular limitation period that differs from what is contained in this legislation. So uniformity, I think, is to be encouraged, and it is one of the reasons why we have dealt with this legislation. Although it may seem to be rather boring technical legislation, it actually has very real consequences for people when they seek to bring claims in court. But, in my opinion, there is a difference between the 10-year period set out in the Building Act and the 15-year period here. As I say, this is a statute of general applicability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe second point I want to address concerns clause 16, which is a very important clause. Mr Parker has accurately outlined the way in which this legislation has developed, and in particular the way in which clause 16 was amended by the Justice and Electoral Committee. In one of the early drafts of the bill, clause 16 was not there at all, and then it was decided to provide a clause that gave discretion to allow relief for a claim of sexual abuse of a minor because of the particularly horrific nature of that kind of proceeding. But it has been broadened out, and a number of changes have emerged as a result of the select committee\u2019s deliberations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EImportantly\u2014and this is brought out in new clause 16A\u2014there is the omission of the requirement that the strength of the claimant\u2019s case is to be a matter to be taken into account in exercising its discretion. As Mr Parker said, that widens the scope of clause 16 to include physical and psychological abuse of minors by parents, step-parents, and close relatives or associates, and it extends the discretion to allow relief for claims for personal injury caused by gradual process, infection, or disease that is not covered by accident compensation. So it is a very important change, and I agree with speakers who contributed during the second reading that it does improve the legislation. How many claims will there be? Well, who knows, but this is a particular form of harm and it is appropriate that we provide for it in this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022795e0945b3dc4538aad085048193ac2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022795e0945b3dc4538aad085048193ac2b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Attorney-General for those remarks, particularly in respect of the different longstop liability periods. I agree that we do not have, nor ought we to have, the same limitation period applying to absolutely all causes of action. I would say, in respect of the two examples that the Attorney-General used, that the Family Protection Act, of course, has a shortened period because one needs to distribute the proceeds of a will and let people spend it or use it for the purchase of a house, or use the assets they inherit after a period. Of course, when someone dies, one generally knows whether one is in the class of people who can make a claim under the Family Protection Act, and they are, essentially, close relatives of the deceased. They know that the deceased has died, and therefore they know that if they are going to challenge the will, they have a cause of action as a consequence of the death of their relative. So I do not see that as being a good reason or a good comparison with the Building Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of the Fair Trading Act, similarly I would have said that most of the claims are things that will be known to a party within that period, and if they did not have a right under the Fair Trading Act, they would normally have a contractual right or claim, which, under this legislation, would have a longstop liability in case of a lack of knowledge on the part of the claimant or the person who is injured, which would actually be the 15-year longstop period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAlthough I accept the proposition that there are some areas where one does have a shorter limitation period, I do not see the examples the Minister has given as being good justification for having a different rule from the general 15-year longstop period for building cases. I think those building cases are more similar to the other cases where we do have the 15-year longstop liability period than they are to the likes of the Family Protection Act or the Fair Trading Act cause of action. I again note that under the Fair Trading Act one generally has a contractual cause of action if one did not want to rely upon the Fair Trading Act cause of action. I see it as being more akin to general claims in tort or contract. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI continue to be of the view that the longstop period for building cases ought to be the same as it is for other cases. There should be alignment. I encourage the Committee to consider seriously the amendment that will be appearing on the floor of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b02ea5621b0e447a873967f26e201d03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b02ea5621b0e447a873967f26e201d03\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E I wonder whether there is a way through the issue raised by David Parker that would satisfy everyone. The Building Act was enacted first, I think, in 1991, and re-enacted in 2004. It is under review at the moment, and it could well be that those arguments could be made in the context of the Building Act review, so that we do not get into a debate about whether the member\u2019s proposed amendment is within scope or whatever. It could well be an issue that is deserving of careful consideration when the Building Act review is concluded. I simply offer that not as a peace offering but as sensible way forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0a187b3828349479a9e90cc22f3086d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0a187b3828349479a9e90cc22f3086d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E That is a very kind offer, but I like to have two bites of the cherry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u002284be13c1edd84949a8769fdcef9450bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284be13c1edd84949a8769fdcef9450bf\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is an absolute pleasure to come down to the Chamber again and speak on the Limitation Bill. I was in my office catching up on a bit of work, and I thought: \u201CNo\u2014enough. I have to get back to this bill.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI heard with interest the comments in terms of the waiting period in the bill, and I acknowledge the very good contribution of David Parker. That was something on which the Labour members showed a lot of leadership, and I am only sorry that all our very valid arguments were not brought into effect. What I do know is that this bill is long overdue. As I said earlier, in terms of the Government we have seen a lot of things we are not happy with come before the Justice and Electoral Committee, but especially before this House. But on this occasion this has been a common-sense bill, if I can use that term. It has clearer, more comprehensive law on general civil limitation defences. The bill is not all about defendants being disadvantaged by stale claims. It is also about having some clarity in terms of the whole system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the work of the Law Commission. I note that under the previous Labour Government more Law Commission reports were implemented than were implemented under any other previous Government. Although I acknowledge Chester Borrows, who is a very good chair of the Justice and Electoral Committee, I also take this opportunity to acknowledge the former chair, who was me. During my time as chair of the Justice and Electoral Committee there were many bills that came before\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273a90cef4a1c4481adc536f921c6ff3b\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: You were just wonderful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba51a4a167e74e83adc2907ec83087fb\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member very much. Kia ora. If we really want to remember that committee, the member will remember when we went to look at victims\u2019 rights in Victoria. It was a very constructive meeting. Unfortunately, the National members wanted to take advantage of the adjournment and go on international holidays but those of us in Labour, and indeed in the M\u0101ori Party, went on that select committee trip. The member was very helpful in the time that he was there, but he then felt a need, a very\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022573c550969994bd2afea59b188786450\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: To sneak off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278ce4742606b4345a1bda80b92023007\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I would not put it that way. He felt a need to go and investigate some concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b13fd771fa24d8b97760c5b5ddaf54c\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: For a walkabout. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224816635f8ff404690d83593512b0ce4\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: He went walkabout in Australia, but that is past history. What I will say is that that member put in the time and effort to accompany us on that trip. I can see Minister Finlayson looking and thinking \u201COh, I wish I had been there.\u201D! I know that it is something the Minister has always regretted just a teensy bit. The trip was crucial in terms of Labour enacting some very, very good legislation on victims\u2019 rights, which the National Government has been a little tardy on building on. We hope that in the future it will do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI come back to the Limitation Bill, because I know that all of us on the committee found it particularly interesting. Even though it is an update, it seemed quite technical, and some quite substantive issues came out that needed quite a bit of consideration and discussion. My good friend David Parker has talked about sexual abuse claims and why the limitation period should not apply to them because of the very nature of longevity, of when those claims may come into effect. It would be really remiss of me not to acknowledge that and at the same time acknowledge what a dreadful, dreadful job the Minister for ACC has done in terms of providing support for survivors of sexual abuse in New Zealand. I know that it is not appropriate to digress, and very few members have tonight, but that is one of the things that would have to be a real blot. Where do we draw the line? Where do we stop counting all the terrible things that this Government has done? But that has to be up there with the worst. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI mentioned before\u2014just in passing, of course\u2014the assault on workers in New Zealand. I also want to mention the Sentencing Council, because I know the Minister would be very upset if I did not mention it. I know that other members have also mentioned it tonight. If the Minister could somehow enrapture the Sentencing Council into this bill, he may wish to take a call. If we are talking about access to justice\u2014[Interruption] Ah, I see the Minister is jumping to his feet. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u002203260e3951484e53b4df3048ee380281\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203260e3951484e53b4df3048ee380281\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E Hearing the dulcet tones of Lynne Pillay takes me back to those very happy days between 2005 and 2008 when we were getting ready for Government and she was the chair of the Justice and Electoral Committee. How we enjoyed working collaboratively and positively together on the electoral finance legislation! It was one of the thrills of my life! I regret to say that I was the one who was responsible for pulling the National members out of that select committee visit to Australia, because we do not believe in trips like that, which are primarily vacations. I remember receiving the itinerary from Ms Pillay, and I was so disappointed. I think there were two or three meetings a day, and she and her colleagues were going to be holed up at the Park Hyatt. They were going to be travelling business class, but I believe that people should fly economy class across the Tasman. I said: \u201CWell, I am sorry, but the National members are required at home to serve the people.\u201D, and we pulled out of the trip. But, nonetheless, I do acknowledge the honourable member, and I say that the Sentencing Council, which was an appalling edifice designed to straitjacket judges into giving particular sentences, is now consigned to the trash heap of history, just like the electoral finance legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI want to say something about Part 4 of the Limitation Bill, because Part 4 contains some very interesting general provisions that relate to claims made in arbitration, limitation defences, and other enactments contracting out of defences and the pleading of defences. I refer honourable members to clause 41, which is one of the more fundamental principles of the bill. It says that if a defendant establishes a defence against a claim under the Limitation Act, then the court or tribunal cannot grant the relief sought but the claim itself is not extinguished. So one is prevented from bringing the claim, but the claim is not extinguished. That is at the very heart of what this limitation legislation is all about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe other interesting part of Part 4\u2014and I do not know that I have ever seen it before\u2014is that the 1950 Act will be with us for many years, so the 1950 Act is amended and then repealed. The Acts specified in the schedule are consequently amended, and these are the important transitional provisions that officials work very hard on to knock into shape. I do not think I have ever seen a situation where an Act is amended and then repealed, but it will continue to apply to claims relating to events before 1 January 2011 and it will require claims to be brought by the latter of 15 years of the date of the act or omission or 5 years after the new Act commences. That is why clauses 23A to 23D are included. They bring across provisions to the 1950 Act relating to the longstop period and the discretion to allow relief, for example, for an action of abuse of an infant or the gradual process injury that we have been talking about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe only other point I make\u2014and it is good that the law finally is clarified in this country\u2014relates to clause 53. That will provide that the clause will apply to a civil proceeding before a New Zealand court or tribunal whenever the substantive law of a foreign country is to be applied in that proceeding, and it provides that the limitation of that foreign country is part of the substantive law of the country and must be applied accordingly. For many years there was academic debate about whether limitation law was procedural or substantive. The Choice of Law (Limitation Periods) Act 1993 of New South Wales and the Foreign Limitation Periods Act 1984 of the UK clarified the point for those jurisdictions, and it is now clarified here. I note also in clause 54 the public policy exception for limitation law of foreign countries is to apply except in relation to Australia. Part 4, as I said, contains some very important transitional provisions. The reason for that is that the 1950 legislation will be with us for many years to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022dba62ae4a8d2407b8f6034167d709691\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dba62ae4a8d2407b8f6034167d709691\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am somewhat disappointed that the Attorney-General was not quite as excited about clause 8. Clause 8A of the Limitation Bill was another notable addition as a consequence of Mr Corry\u2019s submission to the Justice and Electoral Committee, which raised the issue of equitable claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EOf course, equitable claims are not common law claims, so the Limitation Act generally does not apply to them, and neither does the Limitation Bill. But the position has grown in the equitable courts that they apply analogous limitation periods to equitable claims. So although the common law or the statute law relating to limitation does not directly apply to equitable claims the courts, by analogy, apply similar rules, because they want to properly balance these interests between people having rights to pursue redress for their injuries against a duty of people to pursue their claims with alacrity once they have the knowledge that enables them to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EMr Corry submitted to the select committee. He is very learned in those matters, and he might have been one of the authors of the Law Commission report. I am not positive about that, though I see the Attorney-General nodding there. He made the suggestion that we clarify that through this legislation we were not stopping through new legislation the courts, by analogy, applying Limitation Bill provisions to equitable claims. In order to clear up that possible unintentional consequence, clause 8A of the bill was introduced. It states: \u201CNothing in this Act prevents it from being applied by analogy to a claim in equity to which no defence prescribed by this Act applies.\u201D I hope that I have given the Clerk enough time to decide whether my amendment is in scope. I will not say anything further for the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u00228011942afb094959871108168925a78e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228011942afb094959871108168925a78e\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I acknowledge the contributions made by my colleagues and by the Attorney-General. The Limitation Bill introduces the new unifying concept of a money claim\u2014namely, a claim for monetary relief whether in common law, in equity, or under an enactment. Part 2 sets out the regime relating to the defence to money claims. There is the general civil limitation defence to a money claim if the defendant can prove that the date on which the claim is filed is at least 6 years after the date of the act or omission on which the claim is based. This is known as the primary period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe 6-year period does not apply if the claimant has late knowledge of the claim. In the case of late knowledge, it is a defence of a claim if the defendant can prove that the date on which the claim is filed is at least 3 years after the late knowledge date, or if the claim is made 15 years after the date of the act or omission on which the claim is based\u2014namely, the longstop period. This provision, set out in Part 4, is designed to prevent indeterminate liability and applies to non-money claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe late knowledge date is defined by clause 13 as the date on which the claimant gained knowledge, or, if earlier, the date on which the claimant ought reasonably to have gained knowledge, of all the certain specified key facts that the claimant must know in order to make the claim. The requisite facts are set out accordingly. The primary period is 2 years and not 6 years for defamation, but the late period might apply in certain circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EEarlier, in the bill\u2019s second reading, I cited the 2009 Supreme Court case Commerce Commission v Carter Holt Harvey Ltd. The issues are relevant to this particular bill, and particularly relevant to a late knowledge period. According to Bell Gully, it is relevant to this bill in respect of reasonable discoverability. As drafted, the bill does not define knowledge, nor does it specify the degree of knowledge required before the claimant is taken to know or ought reasonably to know the specified facts. I quote: \u201CIt is therefore likely that, in the absence of amendments to the Bill, the Supreme Court\u2019s decision in the Carter Holt Harvey case will influence the application of the Limitation Bill, once enacted\u201D. So I wish that the responsible Minister, the Attorney-General, would take a call and enlighten us on this particular issue. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002250a679fb5d6343a48a7909c28fc06d55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250a679fb5d6343a48a7909c28fc06d55\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to come back to an element of the Limitation Bill that I raised in my first reading speech. It was an issue that has been discussed at great lengths within the Justice and Electoral Committee and I would not mind hearing the Minister\u2019s view on this. This was the discretion to allow relief for claims of gradual process disease or infection. Obviously, when the bill first came to us it had a 6-year primary limitation period for monetary claims for personal injury claims, to which, of course, the late knowledge requirements and the 15-year longstop period would also apply. Many submitters presented to us during the select committee process that that might be an unreasonable limitation, particularly if a person was seeking to obtain relief for a latent personal injury caused by gradual process disease or infection. As I mentioned in my previous speech, one of the many arguments we heard was that New Zealand is different from some of the other jurisdictions we heard about, based on our no-fault accident compensation scheme. We did, however, seek advice on this issue so that we could consider how this rule applied in other jurisdictions, particularly when it came to gradual process disease or infection. The UK and Australia seemed obvious jurisdictions for us to examine. We noted that in those countries, courts were given the discretion to disregard limitation defences when it came to physical or mental conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad6441dc33374ec2a2d1e3d8cae0f232\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Just fascinating, Jacinda, just fascinating!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c641d4a00014fa981aab9b7cd06ca6e\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: It was even better at the select committee; that was the live, unedited version. I admit that this is somewhat watered down and I apologise for that, but if the member wishes to sit in the select committee I can tell him that it is tickets only. But that was where it came to physical or mental conditions. When it came to the range in those countries, ours was somewhat constrained comparatively. Those countries included personal injuries caused by gradual process at their discretion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe had some discussion about this. One of the discussions that came up, as I recall, was on cases that some of us have seen in our constituency offices. One that I raised was a gradual process claim, which was initially covered by accident compensation. It was several decades ago so it would have been outside this legislation. The Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) had originally acknowledged the individual to have a gradual process injury and had covered the claimant for many years because of that fact. In fact, ACC had prosecuted the workplace in question and received damages to cover the long-term payment for the claimant. However, somewhere down the track, ACC decided to reassess that case, decided that in that instance it no longer believed it was a gradual process injury, and instead declared it to be a degenerative disease. So in that situation we had originally had a gradual process injury, which was covered by ACC, and therefore it was one of the cases that understandably we would say was outside the limitation and was already covered by the State insurer. But then when ACC changed its mind, there was no point of redress for that individual. Even going back to ACC to try to claim for a gradual process injury meant a very lengthy litigation period. That person would not be covered by the limitation, because of being outside the scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThat was the kind of discussion we had at the select committee. Then we come to what we decided. Collectively the select committee decided to give the courts the discretion to allow monetary relief to be granted for a claim in relation to a personal injury caused by gradual process disease or infection when the Accident Compensation Act does not stop the claim being made or relief being granted. So there is still an interesting rub when it comes to the way that ACC chooses to define the case in question. I think it is very important to make sure we have the interaction between accident compensation and this legislation right, because I do not think we can assume that all things will necessarily remain equal when it comes to accident compensation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u00229eebabad3bca43e3a4798e4cee64f3d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229eebabad3bca43e3a4798e4cee64f3d5\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will follow on from Jacinda Ardern. The member\u2019s last words were that we cannot assume all things are equal\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220145988ee5194dffb68466752ced9073\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: All things will be equal with accident compensation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223a71589272f40f69d81725702aa5a68\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I think that is a very valid point. In terms of the Limitation Bill, that certainly was the view of the Labour members on the Justice and Electoral Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI am very pleased that our amendment, put forward in the name of David Parker, is on the Table, and I urge the Government to consider it. Although there was a good working relationship and good chairing at the committee, I think that from time to time the Government members, although they were listening a lot better than they do in other circumstances, did not listen enough. I see that the Minister in the chair, the Hon Chris Finlayson, is listening intently now, and nodding, I think, just a little. No, he is not nodding. Do Government members change their colours? No, they do not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI hope that there is some support for the amendment that David Parker is putting forward in terms of extending the limitation period with regard to building cases to make sure that all bases are covered and that there is fairness and equity in terms of longstop periods in the bill. We on this side of the Chamber are not being stupid\u2014we will not oppose the bill completely if that amendment does not go through\u2014but we urge the Government to listen, to consider carefully, to think about what was said, to think about the arguments, and to think about what the submitters put forward. I think it is important for members to put their egos aside; it is not about who is right or wrong. Members should put their egos aside and consider the amendment that we are putting forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI have said it before, but again I acknowledge all the work that has gone into a bill that could be seen and described as quite technical, and probably, to some, boring, though certainly not to me. It was never boring under the leadership of Chester Borrows on that select committee, but it was not perhaps the most gripping bill we have had. That would be a fair comment, would it not? It was not the most gripping bill we have had before the select committee. Having said that, this bill makes a difference to people in terms of fairness and the delivery of justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThis bill is fair and it is common sense. It is good to stand in this Chamber and speak about this Government putting a bill before the House that has some common sense attached to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd87a408f0234a85883b3841b65126c4\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: It doesn\u2019t always happen, does it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234259e3d32ff486ba7c59182a465900c\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: It very seldom happens. It very, very seldom happens, but in this instance, it has. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI see that Grant Robertson has come down to the Chamber. He is not on the Justice and Electoral Committee. He was up in his office doing some work and he thought: \u201COh my goodness, it is the Limitation Bill!\u201D, and he was off like a robber\u2019s dog to come down to the Chamber and speak on the Limitation Bill. I am really proud of my colleagues, who are committed to having their say. So often the debate is negative. So often we go home with knots in our tummies about what has happened and about all the dreadful things that this National Government has done, but this is not an occasion like that. Although we want our amendment to be carefully considered, we know that this is not the time for argument. We could simply sit back and say: \u201CWho cares? We support it, so we will not speak on it.\u201D, but we are not a party like that, OK? We believe in giving credit where credit is due. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI tell members that on the Limitation Bill, the National Government has excelled. The rest of its record is rubbish, but on this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022162a8576518e4beb9fc48d9236c16a9d\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Woo hoo!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e89f24e7ee74dcd8c7e9f90e44fa890\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: That is right, you have done it. You are Superman and Superwoman, as far as we are concerned. We are very pleased to support this bill. I cannot think of much else I have to add.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243b9f79f85fd4c8692e4819a7c5e79f2\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I just remind the member that I am not necessarily Superman, but that helps. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022c38f1aeadbb74fc39809f9cb4b31c64a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c38f1aeadbb74fc39809f9cb4b31c64a\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E It is true that I was sitting in my office, wading through various piles of paper\u2014which is a great thing to be doing during the urgency period\u2014when I saw that the Limitation Bill was being debated and thought that I needed to be in the Chamber. As my colleague Lynne Pillay said, it is unusual for us on the Labour benches to see a Government bill and say that it is practical and common sense. It was probably a bill from the previous Labour Government that was inherited by National, but in this case we have to give credit where credit is due and say that this bill has come through with the Minister in charge, Chris Finlayson, leading the way and breaking new ground in this Chamber. That is what the Minister is doing with the Limitation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI am pleased to take a call in the Committee stage, and I draw further attention to David Parker\u2019s amendment. It is important that in a common-sense bill like this one we look for consistency. If we provide something like the longstop period, and if we say it is important and useful, then we should try to apply it consistently. The problem with this bill, as I understood it while I sat up in my office listening intently to the speeches\u2014particularly those by David Parker, Lynne Pillay, and Jacinda Ardern\u2014arises when it comes to the Building Act and for the very people whom the National Party has come to Parliament to represent. Perhaps those people are leaky building owners, and I ask why they should not get the ability to have a 15-year longstop period in a case that involves the Building Act. That is precisely what David Parker\u2019s amendment is designed to do: to extend the period from 10 years to 15 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI think that we all know, particularly those of us in metropolitan areas, and have dealt with people who have had leaky buildings and leaky homes. There is no overestimating the seriousness of that problem for those people. The effects of leaky buildings take a period of time to become obvious. In my electorate of Wellington Central there has not been an end to the claims. More and more people have become interested in the issue. Building products that were used in the 1990s are becoming less and less durable and people are concerning themselves about this problem. The Limitation Bill has the opportunity to help address some of those issues, and it is important to look at what the Justice and Electoral Committee said in its report to Parliament about this issue. It stated that there were divergent views about the question of the longstop period. That is significant in a bill as important as the Limitation Bill, which perhaps for some people is a technical bill, but which for many people has a very, very practical provision for them if they have an issue under the Building Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn three separate reports on the issue of the longstop period\u2014in 1988, 2000, and 2007\u2014the Law Commission changed its mind about whether the longstop period should be 10 or 15 years. In 2007 the Law Commission concluded that a 15-year longstop period struck the appropriate balance between justice for claimants and certainty for defendants. It is a difficult balance to strike, ensuring that people have the ability to have their say and have some kind of redress for what has occurred to them, but not extending that opportunity out for ever and a day making providers feel like they have a liability for their whole lifetimes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EDavid Parker has put forward an amendment and I think it is well worth reading out. It would insert a new clause 60 after clause 59, which is a good thing\u2014making sure it is sequential is important. Clause 60 would read: \u201CNotwithstanding any other provision in this Act or the Building Act 2004, the longstop period under the Building Act 2004 is hereby amended to 15 years so as to align with the general longstop period provided under this Act.\u201D That is it, in essence, in a nutshell, to make sure that we actually get some consistency and some ability for those people who have been affected by issues relating to the Building Act to know that they have that longstop period of 15 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo I really do ask the National members to take a call and explain to us why they do not believe there should be this kind of consistency. I know that the Minister is a person who takes his responsibilities seriously on issues such as these. The Limitation Bill is one that he would have pored over for hours and hours in his office, going through each clause word by word to make sure that it is precise and accurate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d95219153554730abbc175741bc5153\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s the New Zealand legal system\u2019s greatest mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9cbd913300047bdbce3a51a9359ce75\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right, and we are trying to make sure that this bill is improved to the extent that it can be. [Interruption] I am sorry, I could not quite hear Clark Kent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc6880b5777447918cede8b1ee083e74\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Lynne Pillay did a lot of the detailed work, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c593958f8094f77af856907b145a196\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right, she did, and to give credit where credit is due, so did the whole of the Justice and Electoral Committee. I have had the privilege of sitting briefly on the Justice and Electoral Committee from time to time. I am a great admirer of the chair, Chester Borrows. He does an excellent job on that committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281508519b0fc4e228eb5cfb872c49f3c\u0022\u003EHekia Parata\u003C/span\u003E: Aren\u2019t we all, aren\u2019t we all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229db0aaa5c4ba4cc887fb9caa4d880e6d\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We are, and I think it bears saying again and again that this has been a good process. This is a bill that does a lot of common-sense things and here is an opportunity for one more common-sense approach that the Minister could take. It would be good if he could take a call and explain to us here in the Committee whether the National Party will be supporting David Parker\u2019s amendment. It is the opportunity to get a 15-year limit across the board. The Law Commission itself was wavering, and here is a chance for Parliament to give a clear direction. Our job is to give people a clear direction, not to set up inconsistency within law but to make sure that people who want to make claims under the Building Act know that the longstop period applies to all of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI will not delay the Committee much further on this bill. I see that a number of its clauses deal with laws in respect of which people need to make claims over a period of time. We have already had some discussion about things like gradual process and the role of the Accident Compensation Corporation within that. I am sure that my colleagues on the Justice and Electoral Committee would have ensured that all of those provisions are useful, accurate, and helpful for the people who will be seeking redress under the accident compensation scheme. The longstop period is an important part of this bill and it is one in relation to which the Labour Party has seen fit to put forward an amendment. My colleague David Parker, who is a lawyer in his own right, takes these matters very seriously and he has put it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI really do call on the National members to make sure that they give serious consideration to this amendment. Sometimes amendments come into this Chamber that I know Government members see as perhaps time fillers or as amendments that we are not serious about, but in this case that is not so. We are deadly serious about the fact that we think this will be good for New Zealand and good for the people who use the Building Act. It is timely that when we are in urgency that the Government says that this bill is important for it to pass. The Limitation Bill is one of the bills that it urgently wants to pass and we say good on the Government for wanting to pass a common-sense bill urgently, but we ask it to look at the amendment in the name of David Parker to insert a new clause 60. I look forward to a contribution perhaps from the Minister now on whether he will accept this amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 159 in the name of the Hon Christopher Finlayson be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon David Parker to Part 4 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003Eto insert the following clause after clause 59:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E59A\tNotwithstanding any other provision in this Act or the Building Act 2004, the longstop period under the Building Act 2004 is hereby amended to 15 years so as to align with the general longstop period provided under this Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022aaefd886ac35499b850f2f03501e6b4c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 6; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 69\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001229\u0022\u003EParts 1 to 4, the schedule, and clauses 1 and 2, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001230\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001231\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002250fc5820ecf041888c6b830aa6aaa1d1\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u00225fb2eef90c30491b9a8cfe5c0c6214e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225fb2eef90c30491b9a8cfe5c0c6214e4\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Limitation Bill be now read a third time. As I stand to speak on the third reading I reflect on how lucky we are as members of Parliament to be debating limitation law at 11.15 on a Wednesday night. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f3c4ae08b584c7eb135cb5c8332199e\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Hear, hear! There\u2019s nowhere else I\u2019d rather be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228871432bf5684226b091a07e114e718e\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: There is nowhere else I would rather be. I have to say, with respect, that I thought the discussion in the Committee was excellent. I particularly note the contribution of my friend Ms Pillay, and I say \u201Cmy friend\u201D advisedly because we enjoyed working together, she as chairperson and I as deputy chairperson of the Justice and Electoral Committee, even though we disagreed on everything and she took the Labour members off on a wonderful jaunt to Australia and I pulled the National members out because I thought that they should be at home working. The one substantive point raised in the course of the discussion came from Mr Parker, who I thought made a substantive contribution to improving the bill with the amendment to clause 16, and I acknowledge the discussions we had. He wanted to amend the Building Act longstop period. It could well be that there are very cogent arguments for so doing and that there are benefits, as he said, in uniform limitation periods, but I think this is an issue that needs to be canvassed in the context of the current Building Act review, and his proposed amendment, which was a very serious amendment with very serious consequences, would really need to be consulted on. That was the proposal I put in the Committee stage. It was not accepted, but I do think that that is the best way to move forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI am very pleased to be able to move that the bill be read a third time. It replaces 60-year-old legislation. It is very important because, as Ms Pillay says, it addresses the problems that have been identified with the current Act\u2019s substance and drafting. It clarifies and improves general limitation rules, although there are specific limitation rules in other statutes. These rules determine how long people have to bring a civil claim before defendants can argue that the claim is time-barred. The justice system gives people access to the courts to settle disputes they cannot otherwise settle themselves, but these kinds of rules are needed\u2014and I think Mr Parker alluded to this on a number of occasions in the Committee stage\u2014as it is unjust for people to have to defend claims about something that may have occurred many years earlier, merely because the claimant has delayed bringing the case. These rules are designed to strike a fair balance between the conflicting interests of claimants and defendants. Without these rules people could face potential liability for an indefinite period for which they would need to maintain records, professional insurance, and so on. Importantly, the rules address the important public interest in the timely resolution of claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe path to the reform of the 1950 Act has not been entirely straightforward. I acknowledge the work of the Law Commission over many years. It started with a preliminary discussion paper in 1987. There were then further discussion papers and reports in 1998, 2000, and 2007. It is a tribute to the Law Commission\u2014and Sir Geoffrey Palmer took a very special interest in this reform\u2014that we are where we are now. An exposure bill was published in 2008, submissions were received on the bill, and the Law Commission then convened a working group of interested persons to consider these changes. The then Minister of Justice gave permission for me to be on that working group\u2014I thought that was very sporting of Annette\u2014and this further work resulted in some significant restructuring and refinement of the bill before its introduction in 2009. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI conclude by thanking the Law Commission for its work, and I also thank the Justice and Electoral Committee for its good work. I think that what we have now is very sensible legislation that will stand the test of time, although I hope it is not another 60 years before this Parliament takes another look at this very important area of law. The primary 6-year limitation period is carried forward. We have this new 3-year late knowledge period, which is introduced to address the problem identified by the courts and other experts whereby people sometimes discover they have a claim only after a limitation period has ended. Then we have the 15-year longstop that has been the subject of quite a lot of debate tonight. The new periods will not apply if there is fraud, or if a claimant is incapacitated. As has been canvassed tonight, in some rare cases where minors, for example, have been abused or where the evidence of a personal injury develops over many years, the court will be able to exercise a discretion to grant monetary relief. I think all speakers have noted that limitation law can be complex\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9f0f07ee77b451f816273a934f7b516\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: But fascinating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dee533d008d42c189721fed1b4e9f26\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is truly fascinating. I say to Mr Robertson that if he wants a riveting read he should go to the transitional provisions of this bill. They are very, very interesting. I know that he will enjoy that, more than anything he has done in recent times. I echo the words of Lynne Pillay. This bill is a major achievement in ensuring that the rules are fairer and easier to understand and apply. I thank everyone who has played a part in the debate, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002220a6f5438a5b4ab384bd986e13a82dc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220a6f5438a5b4ab384bd986e13a82dc1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in support of the third reading of the Limitation Bill. I agree with just about everything that the Attorney-General said in his address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212c9c98663d9408ea847b90c7becddf0\u0022\u003EAmy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: This is so boring. Find something to describe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228e8e80e3ec94d34b520b771aa25c706\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Amy Adams says that this is so boring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235eed1dcd7ed4c10b1ced6d910294185\u0022\u003EAmy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: No, you\u2019re agreeing that everything is so boring, I\u2019m afraid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022067969b1b060416982bef1021589af10\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I am being boring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a128bfe10414b55887be57c14e188b8\u0022\u003EAmy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b1d69b966fd4693b61d66032fbda3d2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Amy Adams\u2019 contributions have been riveting tonight, have they not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI will recount the policy balance that Limitation Acts try to achieve. They try to balance the rights of injured parties to pursue through the courts those who have caused them injury in order to get redress for the injury that they have suffered through the wrongful actions of a wrongful party. We want to empower people to do that. We want to encourage them to use court processes, rather than gangs or fisticuffs, because we live in a civil society. But we want to make sure that if they have rights, they exercise them promptly. The reason for that is that the longer one leaves it, the greater the chance of injustice. Memories fade, witnesses die, and documents are lost. In addition, there is the need to let people, even the wrongdoer, get on with their lives eventually and not have the sword of Damocles hanging over their heads for ever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe balance those rights by saying that if people have rights, they generally have to exercise them within 6 years. But we make some exceptions. We make an exception if people do not know enough to know that someone has wronged them, or do not know who it was who wronged them. So we have an exception that says that if a person does not know enough within that 6-year period, he or she will be given another 3 years. If a person has late knowledge, that person will be given another 3 years. But even that has to come to an end sometime, so we have a longstop period of 15 years. That is essentially what this bill does. It has a number of exceptions, because there are exceptions to be made to those general rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe exception that the Attorney-General has raised in respect of sexually abused or abused young people is a case in point. A young person could be abused within his or her family at a very young age, could still be under the care and control of the very people who abused that young person, and could have no effective way of bringing an action, partly because the young person is not of a contractual age and does not know how to go to a lawyer, and partly because he or she may still be living at home. We do not want those people to lose their rights. They should have some prolonged period in which to exercise their rights, because that is fair, and so we have an exception for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere was another exception that the Attorney-General agreed to, following some overseas precedents, including precedents from Canada. A person might have a process injury, such as asbestosis or some other workplace injury that takes a long time to arise, and there should be an exception in respect of that person. The logic around that provision was slightly confused at one stage, as a consequence of accident compensation. People thought that if process injuries were covered by accident compensation, then the Government would not need to provide for them under the Limitation Act. But that logic was not quite right. The accident compensation scheme speaks with its own voice. If someone has an accident compensation remedy, it is covered by accident compensation, and he or she does not have the right to a non - accident compensation claim. The accident compensation claim trumps that and says that those people do not have any residual tortious right. But there are cases that may fall outside accident compensation cover, either because of the current rules covering accident compensation or because those rules may change in the future. So it is important that the Limitation Bill provides for gradual process injuries in the event that they are not covered by accident compensation. So that is another exception. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe general rule in respect of the limitation period should also apply by analogy to equitable claims. Equitable claims are not claims under statute or under common law; they arise using the equitable jurisdiction of the courts. None the less, the courts apply periods that are limitation periods, by analogy, to equitable claims. They apply similar rules to those that apply to common law claims. An amendment was made at the Justice and Electoral Committee to make sure that that is carried forward under this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI do not want to give the impression that there will no longer be disputes about whether an action is within time. Although this legislation does simplify things somewhat, and attempts to minimise the number of disputes and the injustice that can result from them, we will still have disputes about when people had sufficient knowledge so as to be properly informed of their rights, and were therefore obliged to bring their cause of action before the courts if they wanted to pursue it. There will be claimants who say they did not have enough knowledge, when the other party to the claim will say that that the claimant did know enough and sat on their rights for too long, lost their rights, and can no longer sue the other party. There will still be disputes as to when people did or did not have sufficient knowledge to trigger the 6-year limitation period or, indeed, the 3-year late knowledge period. Not all disputes will be avoided, and, perhaps, speaking as a lawyer, that is a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cec46cc363f44bfaf0f4e828b858812\u0022\u003EAmy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e618fb2886a4357b878576efe38d7a5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Amy Adams liked that. She is a lawyer, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe one area where I remain a little disappointed is in respect of the inconsistency that we have for Building Act claims compared with non - Building Act claims. The general 15-year longstop period is not being applied to Building Act cases, and the 10-year longstop period is being left as it currently is. There is a genuine and fair debate as to whether the longstop period should be 10 years or 15 years. Indeed, the Law Commission initially recommended a 10-year longstop period for everything. It modified its position in its subsequent report and said it should be 15 years. But we have this exception introduced for Building Act cases that says it should be only 10 years. I still am not convinced as to the logic that lies behind that. I think it is a pity that that was not cleared up in this bill, because we had the opportunity to fix it up now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere will, of course, be pressure from the building industry to keep it at 10 years. It is in the industry\u2019s self-interest to have a shorter period because it limits its liability. But I am not convinced that it is right. I think that if we have a 15-year longstop liability period for other breaches of contract or tortious claims, I cannot see why it should be different for Building Act claims. I again make the point that this is not of any import in respect of the current leaky home problems in Auckland, because this new bill applies only to wrongs, if you like, or causes of action that accrue from the date after the passage of this bill, rather than things that have already happened before that date. But, none the less, that principle should have been consistent, in my view, for buildings as well as for other claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EPerhaps the most valuable asset that most people own is their house. If they lose a substantial portion of the value of their house because of a latent defect they do not know about, which does not become apparent for more than 10 years\u2014and that does not happen often but it does happen sometimes; foundations might fail after a period of time because they were not appropriately taken down to hard fill\u2014then under this legislation they will have only 10 years to pursue their claim because of the longstop liability under the Building Act. That is unchanged. However, if it were a claim in contract and a claim for something less serious that did not involve their biggest asset, they would have 15 years to pursue it. I am not convinced of the logic of that, and I am not convinced that the complexity of Building Act cases is so different because of the multiplicity of parties. I agree that it is a relevant factor, but there is already a built-in protection whereby it is for plaintiffs to prove their cases on the balance of probabilities. If they do not do so because the effluxion of time means that they are not able to bring to the court sufficiently good evidence to prove their case, then they lose. So the other parties to that litigation have that level of protection, in any event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EHaving said all of that, I say that the Labour Party thinks this is a good bill. I thank the Attorney-General for the consideration he showed for some of the issues that Labour raised in respect of gradual process injuries, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u00223e71473116344b5f839f005982d612eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e71473116344b5f839f005982d612eb\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I take it as a privilege to be able to take a call on the third reading of the Limitation Bill. I am pretty fired up about it at half past 11 at night. I have had a coffee and a wine gum, and I reckon I could talk for hours about this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI would like to commend the contributions of those in the House. In the course of my cousin\u2019s dissertation in the third reading he transported me back to studying civil procedure at Victoria University. I know that in hindsight he would prefer to have given me a grade higher than 51 percent. I find it incredible that someone who can be so eloquent has yet to discover the noble art of voice modulation. I do not know whether the rest of the House feels that way, but I am just stating the way it is. It reflects that in the time that he was our lecturer on civil procedure he went off to Rome to do a course on conversational Latin. Does that explain why we are here debating the Limitation Bill at half past 11 at night?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI also commend other contributors, such as the honourable member Lynne Pillay, who struggled to the top of the beer crate and managed to look over the top. She towered over Carmel Sepuloni! Carmel looked up at Lynne Pillay and asked her how the weather was up there. Lynne Pillay was thinking \u201CBoy, if only Pansy Wong could see me now!\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThis bill is a wonderful piece of legislation. As I understand it, the Minister of Justice, who is in charge of this legislation, was away, and the Attorney-General, the Hon Christopher Finlayson, was sitting in his chair. After he had eaten all of the Minister\u2019s peppermints and had found his pencils and given them a wee sharpen, he started looking in the Minister\u2019s bottom drawer for something to read. He came across the Limitation Bill and thought \u201CAh, this is what I\u2019ll do. While the Minister\u2019s away the cat will play.\u201D\u2014or the mouse, in this case. And away it went. The Limitation Bill came before our hard-working and efficient Justice and Electoral Committee, and tonight it is at the zenith of its long career in the House. I know that Ms Pillay, who was in form 1 when the first Limitation Bill went through, is only too pleased to see this one overtake it before she steps down and hands the mantle over to somebody else. Congratulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba356f178b1f416d9385aa0ed225390d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba356f178b1f416d9385aa0ed225390d\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As members have said, it is not often there is a bit of camaraderie in this rather sad place. Despite the very good control of the Speaker, we see some terrible things happening in this House\u2014things that would bring tears to a glass eye, quite frankly. But this is not one of those occasions. I am pleased to acknowledge that the Limitation Bill is a bill that everyone on all sides of the House supports going forward. There were some amendments that Labour members would have liked to see. Time will tell; often we on this side of the House have to say to the Government: \u201CWe told you so; we tried to tell you.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022988a9d616a6f488aa172e5d02a4fc916\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Almost every day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf5780ad34a04dfaa43d58a5bb75fe7d\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, every day, if we are being really honest. Every day we have to say \u201CWe told you so.\u201D I believe that my colleague David Parker put up a very good amendment. If we had extended the time and had given more consideration to it, perhaps we could have had a full house on it and got full support for it. But we are not a petty party\u2014certainly not. I will not comment on other parties, because I do not want to get niggly at this time of night. We are not petty, and if we look at the bill in its entirety we know that, even though common sense did not prevail on one small part, it will, as many members have said, provide a lot of certainty and enhance our legal system. Indeed, that is what Parliament is about, even though it does not happen all the time. I had not picked up that it is 60 years to the day\u2014is that the case?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4b43dbb2c984bd9b35085f08f406210\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: What else in here is 60 years old?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a1af72aa15f4099bfb94700bae697cb\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think we need to go on to that. But I know that 60 years is very, very special.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f0d541dbe074b4a8c2961a1141bd2a5\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: It is a special time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c484082f816a4eebb4ed59fbd574d612\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: It is a very special time for many, many things and people, and I want to acknowledge in this House how important 60 years is. I think we should all acknowledge that. In going back to the bill, Mr Deputy Speaker, I say that I think that the reference to people\u2019s height, given that you are sitting in the Chair, was most inappropriate. I think a few feathers will be flying in the National caucus next week, with those sorts of comments from Chester. It was completely out of character. Perhaps it was a case of his showing off at the last\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e8f8cb4b7e2468a8418cdee07fb4017\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: One too many wine gums!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224964b53a31a44ed79b9aacf332e68d70\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: That could well be the case. But, goodness me, if we all took offence at personal comments in this House, we would never get anything done, would we? So I will let that one go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022100813fbdf3743b6abfb85df9a1b23fb\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Wayne Mapp would be a basket case!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022762202d7ccbe47069e993acc64cee3ff\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: That is exactly right. So I will let that one go and go back to the Limitation Bill. This is a third reading speech, and tempted as I am to go into the detail and all the technical stuff, I will not do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e9080b153dc46f098fa73b80c9d517c\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll remember you for this speech, Lynne!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022148a49fb3e3e4c09b8f78e335d07b771\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I thank that member very much. I do not have cool glasses for people to remember me by, so I have to rely on referring to the bill. This is a third reading speech, and, all nonsense aside, third reading speeches are a time to acknowledge the work that has gone into the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI will start with the Law Commission, which made the recommendation and has done so much work. Most of its work was enacted under the previous Labour Government. In fact, if we look at the previous Labour Government\u2019s record, we see that so much work was done. Sadly, all of the work that was done on the Sentencing Council was not enacted. We on this side of the House, the Green Party and, I am sure, many National members who have a bit of knowledge of the good that the Sentencing Council would have done, are rather disappointed at that. But, notwithstanding that, the Law Commission has done a lot of good work, and I acknowledge that good work in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EIn an earlier speech today I acknowledged\u2014but I will do it again because it cannot be done often enough\u2014the hard work that the Justice and Electoral Committee\u2019s clerk and his hard-working staff put in. He has to manage many different people on that committee. We have acknowledged Chester Borrows as a very competent chair, which was pretty predictable. We cannot say that of Paul Quinn. Paul Quinn is a difficult member to manage. Even the National members will say that. So I acknowledge the select committee staff, who look beyond members\u2019 quirky little ways and manage to keep things running pretty smoothly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge the hard-working people from the Ministry of Justice who give us advice. We always listen to that advice, but in this situation there was very little controversy. That advice was appreciated, and most of it was taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EAs we have said before\u2014and I do not want to be churlish\u2014the bill provides that a defence of limitation cannot be used in cases of child sexual abuse, no matter how much time has elapsed since the abuse took place. That is really significant. We cannot extend that goodwill to such cases. I do feel a bit bad about doing this, but I cannot miss the opportunity to say what a dreadful Minister for ACC we have and how much damage has been done to survivors of sexual abuse in this country. It is certainly good to know that those cases are exempt from the provisions of the Limitation Bill. There is no limit under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. This bill matches that situation. Money claims under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act are covered by the 6-year limit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EAs my friend and colleague David Parker said, the only matter of any disagreement in the select committee was the longstop period. Although Government members listened to many of Labour\u2019s arguments on the bill, and improvements were made, it was very sad that that disagreement occurred. I know that Grant Robertson spoke on this matter, as did David Parker and, indeed, Jacinda Ardern. Jacinda Ardern will probably speak about it again, because I know she has much to say on this bill. I know she will want to take a call on it. We believe that it is appropriate for the same longstop period to apply to all policy areas for which limitation periods apply. The reason for the shorter period for building cases could apply equally to all other types of cases. As I said earlier, the problem of fading memories\u2014I am quite blessed in that I do not suffer from it\u2014does happen. Also, with regard to the complexities of having multiple parties, we firmly believe that owners of houses that have a latent defect should have as long a time to bring their claims. The one little, teensy black mark in terms of the goodwill and camaraderie around this bill\u2019s progress is that that limitation period was not extended to 15 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EHowever, as I said, we on this side of the House are not petty-minded. We are supporting the bill. We are looking forward to its enactment. Goodness me! I do not think anyone in this House has spoken about when the bill will be enacted, and I think it is something we all really want to know. Oh yes, it was to commence on 1 July 2010. Well, that date is no longer feasible, because we have clearly gone past that date, but the hard-working select committee picked that point up and recommended that the bill come into force on 1 January 2011. That is really fitting. We will start the new year of 2011 with a fresh start to limitations. On that basis, I commend the bill to the House. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022607dbfa5f46346b4b14df10cea40bc96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022607dbfa5f46346b4b14df10cea40bc96\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Lynne Pillay is absolutely right\u2014there is no fading memory there. She remembers Woodstock like it was yesterday. She talked about the current Limitation Act having come into force 60 years ago, I think it was\u2014I feel like listening to Chester Borrows more than her\u2014and her 60 years have passed by very quickly indeed. I talked in my first reading speech, I think, about the 5 o\u2019clock shadow that I was developing. It has now turned into a quarter to 12 mild, mildewy moss.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWe have had some good speeches, and like Lynne Pillay, I will do a bit of backslapping. I agree with all the comments that she has made about the people who deserve thanks. She did not actually mention\u2014or maybe she did, but only in passing\u2014someone who deserves a lot of praise in this process: Paul Quinn. Paul Quinn asked quick-fire questions in the Justice and Electoral Committee because of the rapid way that his mind works. He quickly got to the heart of the matter in the select committee, and we need to keep that on record. Despite being quite a diminutive character who does not like to cause confrontation, he cut through things very quickly, unlike Hekia Parata, whom we could not shut up! She just could not stop talking about this bill and raising important questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI will very briefly, in my last 30 seconds, pick up on the issue that David Parker raised. I agree with what Chris Finlayson said when he was the Minister in the chair not long ago. He said that uniformity in limitation periods is to be encouraged. I would say that it does not need to be overly encouraged. As he pointed out, there are many different pieces of legislation with different limitation periods. If we think about criminal law, then that is obviously quite a different area of law with different policy considerations. In that area, there is no longstop period, at all. The best that one can hope for if one has been accused of a crime, even 40 or 50 years down the track, is a stay of proceedings, and that would be in a case where one simply could not get a fair trial. So there are different longstop periods. There are different policy considerations at play. I do not think that we need to be afraid of that. Although uniformity is to be encouraged because it adds certainty to some extent, it does not always need to be the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022a292d0cc1d4540929d59d1379839de74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a292d0cc1d4540929d59d1379839de74\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I state for the record my disappointment that during this debate the Sentencing Council has not been mentioned, because I always find it to be a key part of any discussion by the Justice and Electoral Committee. I also begin my remarks by acknowledging the chair of the select committee, Chester Borrows. It has already been mentioned in the House that Chester Borrows deals with a diverse select committee, which has robust debate within it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAlthough some of the difficult members have been named tonight, I have to say that Lynne Pillay is not one of them. She is a picture of politeness, she has an inquisitorial mind, and having been a select committee chair herself she knows the difficulties of managing a select committee. But it would be remiss of me in this debate not to mention Paul Quinn, as my colleague Simon Bridges has, because Mr Quinn always makes a robust contribution. If Chester is to offer courses in the noble art of modulation, I say for the record that I will offer courses on the art of using one\u2019s inside voice. Paul Quinn has never mastered the art of the inside voice in the select committee, nor has he mastered it in the House. I think that all the members in this place would benefit from the use of the inside voice, not only in terms of tone and volume but also perhaps in terms of the art of thinking before one speaks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the work of the Attorney-General, Chris Finlayson. In his defence, I would ask who needs modulation when one has mastered the art of the personal attack. I know that Minister Finlayson would like to claim that he never makes things personal, but he is so good at it that sometimes we do not even know that it is happening. I also acknowledge the fact that he has worked for a number of years on this legislation. I will go over a little bit of the history of this bill in my remarks, but before I move on from my notes of thanks, I also acknowledge the work of the officials. At every point during the discussion on this bill, whenever we raised the need to go back, for instance, and look at some additional jurisdictions to see whether we were in keeping with what was happening overseas, the officials were always more than willing to bring forth not only what we asked for but also more again. I want to thank them for their assistance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ETo go back briefly to some of the history of this legislation, I start with the Law Commission report, which is really where it all began. There were reports in 1988, 2000, and 2007, but this was probably the one that substantively triggered the work that we see before us now. It was the Labour Government at that time that asked for a substantive review by the Law Commission, as we did with many other more controversial errors than this. One that may spring to mind is the Law Commission\u2019s extensive work on alcohol reform, a piece of work that is the most comprehensive work we have seen in this House probably in our lifetimes, no matter what age members in this House may be. It traverses every element of our alcohol legislation. I note for the record that it is a shame that not all of those recommendations were put before a select committee for it to decide on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EGoing back to the Law Commission report, it is one of many that Labour instigated. In December 2007 it became the basis for which a draft bill was sent to stakeholders for consultation, but that was not the end of it. There was a reference group, and I think that Minister Finlayson may have referred to it. It was set up in 2008 and was chaired by Justice Blanchard. It included representatives from the New Zealand Law Society, the Bar Association, the Ministry of Justice, and the Parliamentary Counsel Office. As Minister Finlayson acknowledged, the goodwill of the Minister of Justice at that time, the Hon Annette King, meant that she included Chris Finlayson himself, who at that time was an Opposition MP, in that reference group. I think that that again demonstrates that limitation legislation is incredibly important within our justice system. It sets the boundaries and it seeks out the balance between giving certainty to defendants in access to justice for claimants. I think that that is a particular area that goes beyond political boundaries, and that was acknowledged by Annette King. I acknowledge her in this final reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIn this final reading I will go over some less controversial elements of the bill that we did not touch on in the Committee stage but that were picked up on in the discussion in the select committee. That means that they were slightly more substantive. I believe that we have talked a bit about equitable claims. The committee recommended inserting new clause 8A into the bill to clarify that the court will not be prevented from applying statutory limitation provisions to equitable claims for which no limitation defence is set out in this bill already. There is a limitation there that exists for the court, so an element of discretion applies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe have already discussed at some great length one of the areas, and this is a significant one, where disputes still lie around longstop periods. I think that it was the right thing to do for the Hon David Parker to put up an amendment to try to bring consistency between what is in the bill and the Building Act. It was disappointing that the Government chose not to adopt that amendment. Only time will tell as to whether we will see people\u2019s access to justice limited by the fact that the Government has chosen not to adopt this element of consistency, which we advocated for. In particular, there will be areas\u2014Auckland probably most significantly so\u2014affected by the leaking building phenomena. I remember distinctly when it arose. Maurice Williamson himself will be the one who ultimately will have to relook at cases if we find that the limitations that have been set are not working. Again, only time will tell, but for the record I say that Labour believes in consistency in setting a 15-year longstop period in limitations and in the Building Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThere was not much discussion from my recollection on the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. From memory, the select committee only very briefly looked at claims under that Act and whether they should be subject to discretion, similar to the discretion that we looked at in terms of time-barred claims for sexual abuse of a minor. We decided against including discretion in that area. Again, we were erring on the side of certainty in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EDefamation is another area that I recall us touching on a lot in the discussion, but it is worth flagging again that there was discussion on it. We heard concerns that the late knowledge period for defamation is 3 years, as set out in the bill as it was introduced and given to us. Anomalies might arise, so our recommendation was that the late knowledge period should be shortened to 2 years. I think that that is in keeping with the types of claims we are likely to see under that heading. We have already discussed claims of sexual and non-sexual abuse of a child, and I touched on the claims of gradual process disease or infection. I wish to flag that it was Labour that pushed quite hard that the exception for the gradual process claim be inserted into the bill, and I am proud that we did that. I still have ongoing concerns around the interaction between accident compensation and the limitation requirements, predominantly because of the changes in policy and practice we have seen within accident compensation. Any constituency member of this House will know those all too well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe final amendment is on actions based on acts or omissions around the late knowledge exception. I believe that my time is about to expire, so I will not dwell on that. This was a useful discussion with good cooperation between the members of the select committee. It is an important bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217a88e2b1eaa4884a5d32b7a47ca798d\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Fabulous speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df8572fd481b4b8a85745467c9c64b52\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I call that a standing ovation from Hone Harawira, as he is literally standing whilst applauding. I note for the record and for some viewers, who gave me feedback that I need to reduce my airline-type gesturing, that I hope they saw some improvement in that last address. Kia ora koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u002236a9c2dfeb9e425fad35ea10fff690d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236a9c2dfeb9e425fad35ea10fff690d6\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E In this third reading of the Limitation Bill, it is great to see that the bill has support from all parties, which is very uncommon. This bill is part of the process that this Government took over to simplify the judicial system. The Justice and Electoral Committee has dealt with more than 17 different bills since the Government took over in November 2008. Members of this Government have been working hard to make sure that New Zealand has the best judicial system. This bill is an example of the important work Parliament can do in improving the quality of legislation in order to make it more accessible and less confusing to the public. I would like to acknowledge the hard work of the Justice and Electoral Committee, and the officials, who have been providing excellent support during the hearing of this bill. It is my privilege to be part of the select committee, which is led by Chester Borrows, and I acknowledge the Hon David Parker, and other Labour members, for their contribution. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae1092a40f5d48c7811e28a6d068e680\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae1092a40f5d48c7811e28a6d068e680\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great pleasure to take a call. We heard the Attorney-General describe the day that the Limitation Bill passed its first reading as \u201Ca great day for black-letter law\u201D. That reminded me of a 2007 Supreme Court case, where the Supreme Court observed: \u201CWhat is required in New Zealand, and has been required for some considerable time, is a complete legislative overhaul of the Limitation Act. \u2026 The surgery now required is beyond the proper province of the courts.\u201D So this bill implements the Law Commission\u2019s recommendation to replace the current Limitation Act 1950 with a new, modern regime. The new regime will encourage claimants to make claims without undue delay, in order to protect defendants from the unjust pursuit of stale claims. The Limitation Act 1950 is an old piece of legislation, and it needs to be updated. The Labour Party supports the proposed changes in this bill. The bill simplifies the limitation regime by providing a general civil limitation defence to most claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824692c7a17d73c4057bf3fc1ed578de49d001301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 12 midnight to 9 a.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fcfbe70bc87f49d78995cf55ab6b963c\u0022\u003ETuesday, 24 August 2010\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223fab13ceaf184000a9392743a8831ec6\u0022\u003E(continued on Thursday, 26 August 2010)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b77606eca4bd4a37adcae961ad0b73ac\u0022\u003ELimitation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b95ccce3944240f1bee146919e435061\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u002238fde4036a334fa095ce4768a5852ce3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238fde4036a334fa095ce4768a5852ce3\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Limitation Bill simplifies the limitation regime by providing a general civil limitation defence to most claims. A new concept\u2014\u201Cmoney claim\u201D\u2014is introduced. It is a new and unifying concept, which means a claim for monetary relief, whether at common law, in equity, or under any enactment. This replaces the haphazard approach taken by the 1950 Act, which sets out different limitation periods for different causes of action. The limitation period of almost all claims will be 6 years after the act or omission on which the claim is based. There are exceptions or modifications to this period in cases of minority or incapacity, or if there has been an acknowledgment of liability, part-payments, or fraud. A 3-year late knowledge period is introduced, because there might be circumstances where people do not realise they have a cause of action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ECurrently, the limitation period for most claims runs from the date the cause of action accrued\u2014namely, the date on which all the elements necessary to establish the claim first came together. This has been very contentious and ambiguous. Under this bill, for most claims the start date will be the date when the act or omission, on which the claim is based, occurred. The bill provides that the limitation defence cannot be used in cases of child sexual abuse, no matter how much time has elapsed since the abuse took place. There is currently a new statutory limitation period for claims under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. This bill rectifies that situation, bringing the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act under the definition of \u201Cmoney claim\u201D and the 6-year limit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThere are two other issues I wish to revisit in the third reading. Although Labour agrees with most of the bill, we disagree with the longstop period provisions. The bill provides for a longstop period of 15 years for most cases but only 10 years for Building Act cases. I acknowledge the contributions made by the Hon David Parker last night on that particular issue. I believe that it should be 15 years for all claims. Owners of houses with latent defects should have just as long to bring the claim as those with other claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe second matter is related to a Supreme Court case that I cited earlier in the first reading of the bill. The case is Commerce Commission v Carter Holt Harvey Ltd. The brief background of that case is as follows: in October 2002 the Commerce Commission started an investigation relating to the misgrading of timber prior to November 2003. In August 2005 the commission brought proceedings under the Fair Trading Act in the District Court. Carter Holt Harvey pleaded guilty and was fined $900,000. In October 2006 the Commerce Commission brought civil proceedings in the High Court under the Fair Trading Act, seeking compensation for end-users of the timber and competitors of the company. Carter Holt Harvey applied to have the High Court proceedings struck out on the grounds that it was statute barred under section 43(5) of the Fair Trading Act, having been brought more than 3 years after the date on which the loss or damage was discovered or ought reasonably to have been discovered by the commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe struck-out application was unsuccessful in the High Court, but it succeeded in the Court of Appeal. In the Supreme Court, the decision of the Court of Appeal was reversed. What is relevant to this particular bill, according to Bell Gully, is in respect of \u201Creasonable discoverability\u201D. As drafted, the bill does not define \u201Cknowledge\u201D, nor does it specify the degree of knowledge required before a claimant is taken to know or ought reasonably to know the specified facts. I quote: \u201CIt is therefore likely that, in the absence of amendments to the Bill, the Supreme Court\u2019s decision in the Carter Holt Harvey case will influence the application of the Limitation Bill, once enacted.\u201D I asked the Attorney-General to take a call during the Committee of the whole House last night to shed some light on that point; it is a bit disappointing that the Attorney-General appears not to have taken a call on that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ETurning back to the Limitation Act, nevertheless the bill appears to succeed in its goals of enhancing clarity as to the applicable limitation period. In relation to equitable claims, such clarity has arguably come at the expense of equities history freedom from limitation periods. I agree with what Russell McVeagh stated in its opinion that although the concept of the \u201Clate knowledge period\u201D may prevent injustices to claimants, the bill cannot of course prescribe a code for assessing whether, in a particular case, a plaintiff knew, or ought to have known, the necessary facts. That will always be a task for the courts, and one of increased significance under the new regime. I guess that would have answered, to some extent, the question I posed last night to the Attorney-General. Having said that, I hope that with the bill being passed into the law, the surgery required is no longer beyond the proper province of the courts. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e081ecf66a0048c788bb5e4b2621f339\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e081ecf66a0048c788bb5e4b2621f339\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA (National):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. Otir\u0101, ki a t\u0101tou i t\u0113nei ata, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. I rise to speak in the third reading of the Limitation Bill, and I do so following the illustrious and comprehensive presentation made by the Attorney-General last night. At every phase of this bill he inspired us with the majesty of his comments as they relate to the Limitation Bill. I am aware that all around the country the lawyers and practitioners in this particular field are on their knees with gratitude that, finally, after three reports by the Law Commission we have this bill that updates the Limitation Act 1950. As members of the House who sat through this debate will know, we enjoyed the technical detail that the Hon David Parker and the Attorney-General were able to swap with each other about the length of the longstop period, and whether there should be the distinction drawn between claims relating to buildings and other types of claims\u2014they gripped us with the detail that was attendant upon that discussion. We have, at last, an amending of an Act that has been in place for the last 60 years. It balances the rights of claimants to bring what they consider to be causes of action, with defendants\u2019 rights when, after such a long passage of time, the cause, in their view, may have become stale. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EI am pleased that we are at the point in this discussion where we will imminently be able to pass into law\u2014since, I believe, all sides of the House are supporting it\u2014this Limitation Bill. We have had the opportunity, and it is apposite and appropriate, to reiterate the contributions that all members of the Justice and Electoral Committee have made to this particular legislation. They have given it the scrutiny and the searing insights that this select committee has become known for, as well as its burden of work\u2014our select committee chair, Chester Borrows, reminded the Committee last night that 17 pieces of legislation have passed through this very hard-working committee. All members are to be applauded, from the diminutive Ms Pillay to the hulking majesty of my colleague Mr Paul Quinn. He has brought his quick-witted, sharp, and incisive contributions not only to this bill but to all other bills that have come before our select committee. Indeed, my colleague Mr Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi has also offered his clear, considered, and deliberate approach to this legislation. I have been but a learner at the knees of these colleagues, as I have joined this select committee. I am delighted to have learnt so much from them. I end by saying that this legislation, all compliments aside, really does add to the strong foundation of quality legislation that the National-led Government has been navigating through this House. I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c55ed809912146e196368713c3142dc1\u0022\u003EInsurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c9b6df65346245ef8ec78e7ab542b7bc\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022eed9b1fa365041a5a6fa2101f3a07c88\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eed9b1fa365041a5a6fa2101f3a07c88\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to have all parts of the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill taken as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b85654077ea14c62bebb30d73f2c360a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c86dfcdfa826410a8b64bb290759f11c\u0022\u003EParts 1 to 5, schedules 1 to 3, and clauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022b05911ba1d2845ec839cf52d17528b61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b05911ba1d2845ec839cf52d17528b61\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I think it is appropriate to acknowledge that this bill has good cross-party support. It had its first reading in December 2009, and it received 57 submissions, 31 of which were heard by the Finance and Expenditure Committee. The committee worked particularly well through this process and made some useful refinements to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe bill generally focused on licensing and prudential regulation for all insurers carrying on insurance business in New Zealand. All insurers are to be licensed and supervised by the Reserve Bank. They must comply with prudential requirements, and the Reserve Bank will be both the regulator and the supervisor. The bill aligns New Zealand with international regulatory benchmarks and expectations. It is a stand-alone measure, rather than an adjunct of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe bill\u2019s primary purpose is the promotion of a sound and efficient insurance sector and the promotion of public confidence in the sector, which, as I am sure the Committee would agree, is particularly important. The bill covers all categories of insurers carrying out business in New Zealand: life, non-life, and medical. All insurers must have a financial strength rating, except the very small insurers and the friendly societies. All insurers must have a satisfactory, fit, and proper risk management programme, and life insurers must maintain a statutory fund to protect their long-term policy liabilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned before, the Reserve Bank will have broad information-gathering powers of supervision, including an active role in the management of distressed insurers. The bill has had extensive stakeholder consultation, and its purposes and approach have generally been accepted by the industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022910236d4f27f4c308f57166ac6caada6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022910236d4f27f4c308f57166ac6caada6\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E M\u014Drena, Mr Chair. Without wanting to protract our deliberations, the record of Parliament must show that this side of the Chamber supports the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill. Although it deals with a very technical area, the underlying theme is common with what we said yesterday in relation to improving the quality of administration and the safeguards around the broader elements that comprise the commercial sector. For those reasons, the Reserve Bank is viewed by us as being a very suitable location from which the prudential powers should be located and exercised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe difficulty, as I recall hearing from Mr Garrett, is that from time to time if insurance companies are not adequately supervised, they will be like a host of other commercial institutions and be prone to whim, fancy, or whatever passes as the mood in the investment community\u2014that which is enjoying vogue at that point in time. These are very important institutions, and, indeed, a number of speakers earlier in the debate made reference to the fact that insurance companies are critical to their lives, because they have a type of insurance that they are entitled to gain access to if they are without a job. I do not fit into that category, because I never imagine that I will be without a job. The difficulty may be that I am not paid for the job that I end up with, but such is the life associated with assuming a role outside the paid workforce. My relation Hone Harawira and I can speak at length about those matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EOf course, the deeper problem that I have alluded to earlier in relation to this bill is that we are applying another responsibility to the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act, but we are not dealing with the underlying writ of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act, which a number of my colleagues have referred to publicly. That is, if we are to promote an export-led level of growth, if we are to promote\u2014[Interruption]\u2014perhaps a type of lashing is needed. My train of thought was disturbed not only by looking at Mr Foss but by the whips ringing Dr Blue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc96300c3ad44160a99e13d1d5428cc4\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re looking for guidance and expertise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242a1db7c8e8c41f89d07942619201c80\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: No, I can rest assured. I will repeat what I said yesterday. Out of The Wizard of Oz comes the story of someone looking for a heart, another person looking for a brain, and another looking for courage. I will leave Mr Foss to determine which of those qualities he seeks in his political career. However, let me come back to the deeper problem, which is the ambit\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bc718b9b2044a24a2b8cd9dab6b4cd0\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Are you going to do that 58 times? There are 58 of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228e1e748d79a46e386ad111d2ef30f7a\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: I accept that Mr Quinn, when he originally heard the story, did not quite know what I was talking about, but he did pick up on the reference to Gonzo the Muppet. However, the broader challenge in terms of the responsibilities of the Reserve Bank concerns whether we have the right mix of focus in our current monetary policy, over which the Reserve Bank has an exclusive level of authority. That largely is its writ. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWe look forward to actually engaging in a broader debate beyond the refinement of the prudential obligations that the insurance industry should observe, which will be located in the Reserve Bank. But at a broader level, if the current Government is good for its word and is interested in fostering an export-led economy, I ask it what ideas and remedies it has to deal with the volatility and the current arc that our currency is going through. I want to know whether it is time for monetary policy, which has been in place for 20 to 25 years, to be opened up and debated in a very robust way, to see whether it can play a more useful function in relation to advancing an export-led recovery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThere is a real contrast between the type of sophistication that has been brought to the economic area by the current Government and that brought by the previous Labour Government. In changes of this nature, broadly, the current Government has built on what Labour did in its time in office. We were particularly interested to ensure that we laid down the broad architecture for those policies, whether they were savings policies or measures to improve the institutions that really are the pillars of our commercial communities, such as insurance and the administrators\u2019 insurance. This Government, over the last 18 months, in the absence of any radical or sustainable ideas about how to grow the economy, has ended up exhausting energy and time both on cutting taxes and on other issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00223679053651154b4aa9fcdfd5755234f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223679053651154b4aa9fcdfd5755234f8\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As my colleague Mr Jones alluded to, the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill amends the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act and gives the Reserve Bank prudential supervision over the insurance industry. I suppose we can have no discussion at all about the Reserve Bank without mentioning monetary policy. As Mr Jones alluded to, monetary policy, I suspect, will be one of the election issues where National wants to keep the status quo, thereby inhibiting the potential of our exporters to really, really grow and achieve their potential in this day and age of globalisation. Labour, conversely, has a bold new plan\u2014that is, p-l-a-n; but I know that those chaps on the other side do not know how to spell it, let alone what it means\u2014to really deal with one of the three major problems that the New Zealand economy has at the moment, which is a volatile exchange rate. A volatile exchange rate at this point in time means that exporters have no ability to plan with any type of certainty in relation to how much they are going to produce, where they are going to sell to, and how they are going to do that. The only way to do it is to work with the Reserve Bank, and with the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe introduction of this legislation, the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill 2009, is another significant step towards achieving clear, robust regulatory arrangements across the financial sector. Again, when we talk about what has happened in the financial sector, we can say it has been an absolute disaster\u2014an absolute disaster\u2014as many thousands of Kiwis have lost literally millions and millions of dollars. I am talking about the financial sector here\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eeaadf7a1426499b91e2f899094fe2d6\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: You should be talking about the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254c8f7a805ec40a0893b1425ff73e5b4\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I am, Mr Chairperson; it is very much to do with the financial sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cae1291101b40f1aaeef0e2fe095203\u0022\u003EAmy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, but the insurance part of it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266639693a29240fa9cdabacf1ae761b4\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: We are talking about the financial sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235c2bc32ad7149cabe41f40f40f8879e\u0022\u003EAmy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re talking about insurance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a917cd0f5c44586ab30428cd8125ad3\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I will get to that. If that member had something worthy to say, then we might listen, but she should keep quiet and wait for her turn. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does\u2014[Interruption] If people listen, they might actually learn something. The bill will replace outdated and disjointed legislation. It will fill gaps where no prudential regulation currently exists. If that is not part of the financial system, then I am not too sure what is. Having said that, I say that Government members of the Chamber have no idea, at all; they want to retain the status quo when it comes to the financial systems of this country, but we know that the status quo has not worked. People always go back to the status quo when they do not have a plan on how to move things forward\u2014but, anyway! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis bill will remove the inconsistent application of requirements between different insurance sectors. The purpose of the bill is to encourage the maintenance of a sound and efficient insurance sector that promotes confidence among policyholders and the general public. Of course, confidence among the general public in the financial industry has been at an all-time low, due to a dreadful state of governance, maintenance, and management, to date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ac4c13b5d2c4f1281db2fce058f093a\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Hear, hear!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac45315e738b4628881bee4ab85337b9\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much. The bill establishes a licensing regime for insurers and prudential regulators, with compliance being largely self-administered while supervision is provided by the Reserve Bank. As mentioned, this is another tool in the Reserve Bank\u2019s arsenal of tools. We think the Reserve Bank could do a hell of a lot more in driving the economic growth of this country, but it does not have the statutory power to do that. The Labour Government, which we will have here in the next\u2014I do not know\u201412 or so months, will change things; we have a plan. The bill will cover most entities that undertake insurance business in New Zealand, including life insurance, health insurers, captive insurers, and the insurance activities of incorporated societies. It is a sensible bill, and it is one that we support. It establishes, as we have mentioned, a prudential regulatory framework for the insurance industry, and in doing so it gives a number of powers to the Reserve Bank to carry out its new role.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI will mention some of the key provisions of the bill. It will require insurers, for example, to obtain a licence\u2014and criteria for eligibility will have to be met in order to do that\u2014and to maintain solvency. Well, that makes sense, does it not? Of course we want our financial institutions to maintain solvency, because if that does not happen, we will get what happened with the finance companies: they were insolvent, so Kiwis lost millions and millions of dollars. In fact, I hope the new Minister of Consumer Affairs will take a call on this bill, because this legislation does affect consumers, and consumers are at the heart of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c529ef84f89f46f49d6c370329f4a3d5\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: And he\u2019s actually very passionate about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebf7c4ea7cfb4398932ee2705932584f\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: He is passionate about it; he is indeed. So I hope he comes to the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe bill also requires insurers to obtain and publish financial strength ratings, which allow consumers to have choice, but not the sort of choice that they had in respect of financial companies. This means that an insurer is transparent, it is out there, and consumers can look at it and understand what they are getting into.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThose companies will have to meet fit and proper standards for directors and relevant officers. Again, that is most important. If we look at the financial sector in the past 3 or 4 years, we could very strongly make the case that one of the reasons why it acted so dismally\u2014in fact, it failed\u2014is that there was not a sound governance structure, at all. In fact, the structure was deficient; it was missing. Insurers also have to comply with a risk management programme. Again, that was a provision that was missing from finance companies. Insurers have to appoint an actuary, and they have to prepare an annual financial condition report and annual and 6-monthly financial statements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221260da6eae454e9586a07d7ff8f4f586\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Is this all in the new bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211ad0386b60b46ccb63d1a14f5ae8a91\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: This is all in the new bill; it is a fantastic bill, because it provides certainty for the consumer. Insurers also have to maintain at least one statutory fund that relates to their life insurance business, which is solely for the purpose of meeting life insurance liabilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis bill recognises and accommodates supervision by the home regulator of overseas insurers based in New Zealand\u2014subject, of course, to such regulation meeting the satisfaction of the Reserve Bank. The bill also allows for cooperation with overseas regulators. In essence, this means that if an insurance company with a parent overseas meets a whole lot of conditions deemed necessary by its governance authority\u2014say, an authority in Australia, for example\u2014then that company does not have to go through the whole rigmarole in New Zealand if the company can prove that it is good, sound, and robust, as a lot of those key provisions that I mentioned allude to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe bill obliges the Reserve Bank to supervise insurer compliance with the bill and with regulations. In the event of non-compliance, the bill enables the Reserve Bank to escalate supervision through investigations, and, ultimately, through distress management and liquidation. Some regulations will be new to insurers, and a transition period of 2 to 3 years will follow enactment, to facilitate a path to compliance for insurers that are unable to meet the licensing requirements at the time of enactment. The insurance market is very large and diverse in this country, so the transition period is important to make sure that we give every company the opportunity to comply. More specifically, the bill sets out a framework of prudential regulation and supervision for the New Zealand insurance sector. The approach is generally aligned to internationally accepted insurance regulatory practice, and will recognise the diversity of the New Zealand insurance market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI will go through some of the main areas of the bill, and these are as follows\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269c2f84715814129ac256bb16af7a7ab\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Oh! Wake me up when you\u2019re finished.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255d00160e5064fd2890d9441b930b711\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: The member over there yawned; that is astounding, is it not? Many of that member\u2019s constituents have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars due to a very, very lax set of regulations governing the financial sector. But he does not care one bit, at all. I challenge that member to call a public meeting and invite to that meeting every single person in his area\u2014I know he does not hold an electorate, and has no hope of holding one of the Hutt electorates\u2014who has lost money to one of the finance companies, and explain to them why this sort of financial regulation is not important and why it is not needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209918d73f7ad4001aac442d375a1a06e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: This legislation is about insurance, not finance companies. The member will continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cce25258973415c85d5646f4de1ef3e\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I will cover some of the main areas of this bill. In respect of the licensing of insurers, licensing ensures that a consistent set of minimum standards is met by all insurers. The standards must be obtained to receive a licence, and once a licence is granted insurers are able to be monitored against those standards. There is a minimum set of standards that every insurer must meet. That is most important, but it is also common sense, as legislation should be. That reduces the need for consumers to make complex inquiries regarding an insurer\u2019s financial strength and other indicators.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EOne of the criticisms I have is that there is such a DIY mentality to investment in this country that we need to make that licensing incredibly clear: the level of financial literacy is low, so we need to make it very clear and very simple so that consumers know what they are getting into. This bill does that. Insurers covered by this new regime will need to be licensed before the legislation comes into force. The bill will come into effect 18 months after it has received its Royal assent. After that date it will be an offence to carry on, or hold out that one can carry on, an insurance business in New Zealand without a licence. That is most sensible. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022a74bcf526218452e92e1afa0a8696384\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a74bcf526218452e92e1afa0a8696384\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Well, that speech from Stuart Nash was the best indication that voodoo economics is on the way back. The platform of the Labour Party at the next election will be monetary policy, apparently. Its platform will not be tax cuts, affordability, the cost of living, climate change, or jobs; its policy, going around the traps, will be monetary policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EI look forward to seeing Mr Raymond Huo, Mr Choudhary, etc. going around the traps and talking about monetary policy. At every meeting we will furnish our candidates and MPs with the report of the inquiry into future monetary policy, which was started and completed under the previous Government at the whim of Dr Cullen and the Labour members on the Finance and Expenditure Committee, what was it, 2 years ago? In September 2008, I think, that report was presented to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230d3795b12394e87a72a44ff391f5836\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: I thought this bill was about insurance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc46abfa6d0f48e3914e470db053167e\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: It was very interesting, because the terms of reference of that inquiry\u2014I am just replying to Stuart Nash, the previous speaker\u2014were agreed to and formulated by the National members, including me, on the Finance and Expenditure Committee and members of the previous administration. As two other speakers have already brought this debate into the realm of monetary policy, for some reason\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250c502c78a6f489c84f7286a75bbfb3e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: It was my error to allow the previous speaker, Stuart Nash, a second call. I regret that, but that does not mean\u2014[Interruption] That member can go outside for half an hour. I am on my feet; I mean that. That does not give any other member the opportunity to move the debate away from the bill. We are on the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill. Members will speak to the bill in the Committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn withdrew from the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264069a1f93e14649b477a78e61251c2a\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chairman; I totally agree with you\u2014I reiterate that the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill falls under the ambit of the Reserve Bank. I make one qualification: the bill has nothing whatsoever to do with the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act, as some members have indicated, although the Reserve Bank sponsored the bill and its officials helped the Finance and Expenditure Committee during the bill\u2019s select committee process. As we are now in the Committee of the whole House, it is appropriate that the officials are in the Chamber to assist the Minister and the Committee of the whole House where necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EIt is very pertinent to not confuse this Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill with any type of regulation to do with finance companies. I think I am correct in saying that not one cent has been lost within New Zealand, or even in the United States, from memory, from collapses of insurance companies. Attention has been focused on the need for this type of supervision and for a more generic approach to all things financial. But Mr Chairman is quite right to say that bringing the debate into the realm of finance companies in Lower Hutt or somewhere has absolutely nothing to do with insurance. I reiterate that I do not believe that even one cent has been lost by New Zealanders from their funds held by insurance companies in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThis bill is a preventive measure and it is quite a prudent measure\u2014the word \u201Cprudential\u201D is in the bill\u2019s title. Prevention is better than cure. This bill is a recognition that in modern finance, where funds in finance companies and companies in the insurance industry are exposed, or where there is any cross-pollination or exposure of each other\u2019s funds, it is good to have the same regulator at the top of the tree keeping an eye on everything. There are some common themes between how this bill works and how banking supervision works. Even though some of the funds involved are ring-fenced in many aspects, their supervision needs strengthening. Many of these funds are quite substantial and they dwarf the funds in some of the institutions that members opposite were speaking about in those two earlier speeches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EAs tempting as it is to discuss that matter\u2014and I note Mr Chairman\u2019s comment earlier about sticking quite narrowly to the bill, but, goodness gracious me\u2014I look forward, I suppose, to hearing further speeches from members opposite to counter some of the comments made. However, I agree with Mr Chairman\u2019s ruling that the previous speaker went outside the scope of the debate. Basically, my assertion is that those members were totally wrong. That those members are putting monetary and fiscal policy into one bucket and giving it to the Reserve Bank\u2014which is kind of what I heard\u2014is very interesting indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe Finance and Expenditure Committee had 57-odd submissions on this bill. I acknowledge the process, the officials who were involved, and the members of the committee. I realise that members opposite are voting for this bill, and once we got to the nitty-gritty, there was only one point of real interest, or angst, perhaps, in the bill for one or two select committee members. I recall them speaking about that point in the second reading debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EWe opened for submissions on 8 December 2009 and closed on 10 February 2010. The point is that there was ongoing consultation. There was the normal process of a bill coming to the committee, and then the committee opening it up for public submissions, particularly from those who had not been involved in any process, pre-consultation, or discussions with the Reserve Bank, or whoever might be running the bill. If it were a tax bill, the discussions would have been with Inland Revenue Department officials. Really, parallel conversations were going on. That was the correct process, because the committee was totally informed as to who was involved in those discussions, what material or policy changes had been made, and which strong debates, discussions, or areas of disagreement there still were. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EEfficiency in the public sector, if you like, took one great leap forward in so far as this bill was concerned, because it is quite substantive. If we look at just some of the background documents and some of the organisations that were involved, we see, overall, that only one particular sector was not as happy at the outcome as others, and that sector was the captive insurance industry. To its credit, it made its case very, very strongly. But I made the point in the committee, I think, that the control missing from some of those arguments was in trying to quantify the risk to New Zealand and to our reputation and aspirations as a First World financial centre if we were to be included in the same group as the Cayman Islands, Jersey, Guernsey, and various other places like that. That would be a deliberate choice for New Zealand. On balance, I am quite confident that we made the right choice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThe committee made some substantive changes. Initially, we had quite interesting discussions and debate about what insurance was, in fact. We talked about whether insurance was discretionary. Members would not believe how many organisations that discussion picked up. Even if someone contributes to a fund, a trust, or a friendly society, the key point was whether that person would have discretion on payout. Some professional bodies were included in that discussion, including some Wellington organisations, like the Loyal Britannia Lodge, from memory. All sorts of interesting things came out of that discussion. These were organisations where fund members had put in a few dollars every week for their funeral costs, intending that fund to mature in 10, 20, or 30 years, or whenever it might be. Originally, those organisations were picked up by this bill. It is a credit to the select committee process and the Reserve Bank officials that those organisations were carved out. I think we put the cap at $1.5 million, or was it $3 million? But, basically, there was no mischief whatsoever. The risk to the insurance part of the New Zealand financial system was very, very small in so far as those bodies were concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EAs it turned out, there were two or three types of groups. There were the very small groups. There were professional bodies, such as those that offer some medical insurance, veterinary insurance, or dental insurance. Then there were the larger players whom we all know about, such as AMI Insurance and the big-end-of-town insurance companies. Overall, I still attest that, on the whole, they were generally comfortable. There was some detail that they were not comfortable with, and some are still not very happy, but all the rhetoric and allegations around this bill have quietened down quite massively. Some of the allegations about there being an increase in premiums because of this bill, etc., have not come to pass, because those who made the allegations were being a wee bit facetious. They had built in those premiums and made changes anyway because of other changes to the taxation treatment of the life insurance side of their businesses and the normal insurance side of the business. One side is the balloon side and the other side is the user-pays, \u201Cpay as you go\u201D - type stuff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EOne point I will raise is that other members had concerns about the impact on the balance sheets of large New Zealand insurance companies. As I said in my speech in the second reading debate, that concern has been flagged for quite some time. I cannot quite remember when the bill was first introduced to the House, but there have been discussions on it for quite some time. With regard to the effect of the bill having an impact on insurance companies\u2019 balance sheets, I say it will be something like 3 or 4 years all up from the first discussion of this measure to when those companies must comply. There have been allegations as to the cost for some of the policyholders, trust holders, or unit holders, if you like, for those institutions. Actually\u2014and this came into the discussion of New Zealand regulation versus Australian regulation\u2014after 3 or 4 years of lead time, a balance sheet moves around and investment decisions are made. Some companies make those decisions based on regulatory arbitrage, perhaps, and others make them based on tax arbitrage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThis is a very good bill. I acknowledge the Opposition for supporting it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u0022c94666b69e1b4379b1c673fbfc1c56ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c94666b69e1b4379b1c673fbfc1c56ee\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to speak in the Committee stage of the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill. Without wishing to try the Committee\u2019s patience, I want to take my few minutes in this call to describe the bill in terms of what it is not, because sometimes describing something in the negative is as beneficial as describing it in the positive. We will see how we go and how much I try members\u2019 patience in the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EClearly Labour supports this bill. Our main concern was to ensure that it benefited insurance policyholders through ensuring the security, the transparency, and the fairness of a supervision scheme. Of course we are in agreement with that. We also support the Minister of Finance\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper, Supplementary Order Paper 155. There is a 200-page bill and a 10-page Supplementary Order Paper, and both of them reflect what the bill could have been but did not go into. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EWe support the bill, and we support the Supplementary Order Paper, but the question arises from the Supplementary Order Paper as to whether this bill seizes the opportunity that was before the Government\u2014and before the Finance and Expenditure Committee, but at the direction of the Government. In doing something essential, which this bill does, it achieves what it sets out to do, and that is to encourage by its own purpose the maintenance of a sound and efficient insurance sector that can promote confidence amongst policyholders and the general public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EHowever, these are extraordinary times. To improve the insurance sector and the transparency and security of it is good in these extraordinary and uncertain times. But, in fact, the Government could have taken the opportunity to do something even more substantial. Here in this bill, a portion of our economic structures are being given into the hands of the Reserve Bank in order for that monitoring and supervisory function to be performed. That is a good thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EBut what the Government could have done was to take another look at the functions of the Reserve Bank and to expand its functions in a way that addresses\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f609132fc4c4f60aca460986c96b787\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5c8e2efa8bf47b6830fbbfb65439968\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: There is a point of order. I think I can anticipate what it is, and, without even hearing it, I will uphold it. The member needs to clarify the argument she is putting in relation to the bill before us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c03e0105815d4cbf8776543535777e4a\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223daf37f3a90c48aeaf2d4fa5963a77ba\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: No. I have spoken. I have just said that the member must talk about the bill. You can make a comparative example, but you must draw it into the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e30aa15d54e40048eb55280f0cf2a61\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET\u003C/span\u003E: The treatment of the insurance sector, as I have already said, is a valid, important, and justifiable thing to do. But why do we not accompany that with some additional measures that relate to comparable sectors in the financial structures that we have, and deal with a comprehensive range of the financial tools that are available to this Government\u2014or that could be available to the Government with some imagination and boldness?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EIn this bill, we have a cringing timidity on the part of this Government that restricts it from looking at the creation of other financial and economic institutions or powers within the Reserve Bank, and limits it only to the purpose of this bill, which is, in fact, to encourage the maintenance of a sound and efficient insurance sector. We do not disagree with that, but it cannot go unnoticed in the context of describing what this bill does, that the Government could have done more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 155 in the name of the Hon Bill English be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EParts 1 to 5, schedules 1 to 3, and clauses 1 and 2, as amended, agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ed84a473781042b994165a504e2e9997\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u002260c79e6c7f314f4688d0e4fb8e41519c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260c79e6c7f314f4688d0e4fb8e41519c\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill be now read a third time. I wish to thank all of those who have contributed to the smooth process of this sensible and well-targeted bill through its parliamentary process. Although this morning we heard a lot of political point-scoring during the debate of the Committee of the whole House, generally speaking this bill has very much cross-party support. The collaborative approach taken firstly by the industry and the stakeholders in their active engagement with officials through the developmental phase of the bill, and subsequently between the industry, officials, and also the Finance and Expenditure Committee through the select committee process, has meant that overall everyone has made a very valid contribution to the appropriate and effective outcomes that this bill will achieve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe purposes of the bill are to promote the maintenance of a sound and efficient insurance sector and to promote public confidence in the overall sector. The bill takes a number of steps to achieve these purposes. It establishes a framework for the prudential regulation of insurers, and it requires insurers to be licensed and subject to prudential requirements. It makes the Reserve Bank responsible for supervising insurer compliance with the bill, and it provides certain powers to the Reserve Bank to act in respect of insurers in financial distress. By taking these steps, the bill will bring New Zealand into general alignment with established international insurance regulatory practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe bill recognises the diversity and the comparatively small New Zealand insurance market, and it seeks to maintain the balance of the market through regulation and making sure that that regulation is appropriate in the New Zealand context. We do not want to impose excessive or unnecessary compliance costs on the industry, and overall we need to deliver an appropriate level of regulatory effectiveness. Once the transitional implementation phase is completed, compliance costs will be comparatively light for compliant insurers. The financial reporting requirements contained in the bill, the emphasis on governance and senior management accountability, and on involvement in the process and the outsourced viewpoint of insurers\u2019 financial strengths from independent rating agencies all contribute to a cost-efficient yet effective mode of delivery of this new regulatory model for New Zealand insurers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe enactment of this legislation will see the repeal of a number of existing outdated and poorly linked pieces of insurance legislation that date back, in some cases, to 1908. It will remove inconsistent legislative application between the different insurance sectors. In summary, it will deliver to New Zealand a current, relevant, and international-standard model of insurance prudential regulation. As I mentioned during the Committee stage, the first reading of the bill in December 2009 had wide-ranging cross-party support and general support from those within the industry. This demonstrates that across the political spectrum and within the industry there is a clear recognition of the purpose of this bill. The means by which it will achieve those purposes are appropriate to the New Zealand market that it will regulate. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00226cf818887145476985be367ecc5101fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cf818887145476985be367ecc5101fd\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As earlier speakers on behalf of the Labour Party have said, we support the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill as far as it goes. It does improve the prudential supervision of insurance companies. It will help protect New Zealand consumers by ensuring that those insurance companies act prudently, maintain prudent balance sheets, and do not fail. That is important because insurance companies are repositories of not just contracts of insurance, which people expect them to honour\u2014for example, if people have life insurance, they expect the insurance company to honour the contract when they die\u2014but also money through endowment policies and the like. So we need to ensure that they are robust. That is good as far as it goes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI think the bill has been brought forward because of the effects of the global financial crisis and the failures we have seen around the world of some very large insurance companies, which have cost many billions of dollars not just to consumers through insurers not being able to honour their contracts of insurance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206037f5ae81c4201a424b2456ce87748\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think any insurance companies failed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022beeb0e56b5bf4ddfa0b2ece5cd97f94c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but also to taxpayers, who have had to bail out those insurance companies. Well, there have actually been some multibillion-dollar Government investments in respect of some of the insurance companies in the United States.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn terms of how this bill works, it increases the powers of supervision of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand, which is the body that has been given increased supervisory powers to maintain prudential supervision of insurance companies. The point has probably been made by prior speakers that there is a lost opportunity here to go further in respect of prudential supervision of our banking sector, which could assist our export sector through influence on monetary policy. At the moment the Reserve Bank has an almost singular focus, when it comes to monetary policy, on interest rates. It tries to take the excesses out of the economy by putting interest rates up, and therefore suppressing consumption, in order to ameliorate the effect of asset bubbles and to take the heat out of the economy, which is inflationary. The bank\u2019s reliance on that single instrument has had a detrimental effect on the export economy. The export economy of New Zealand has suffered a number of detriments. For a start, the way in which we have implemented monetary policy in New Zealand means that we have structurally higher interest rates than our competitors. So whether one is a farmer or an exporter in the manufactured goods area, one is facing higher interest rates than those faced by competitors overseas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThat has a number of detriments. The first is that the exporter or the investor in a New Zealand enterprise has a higher cost structure than competitors overseas in respect of interest rates. So, if all other things are equal, a widget manufacturer in New Zealand has a higher cost structure than overseas competitors, because New Zealand has structurally higher interest rates. After 20 years of monetary policy in its current incarnation, we do have to question, in my view, whether the higher interest rates that we have structurally in the economy now are actually partly an outcome of current monetary and Reserve Bank policy. This legislation, which changes the prudential requirements for insurance companies, could have taken a similar approach in respect of banks so as to introduce more tools to the Reserve Bank so that it does not have to rely exclusively on the interest rate tool.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe second detriment that is suffered by New Zealand businesses as a consequence of those higher interest rates\u2014which also undermine their ability to invest in productive plant, which is needed to improve the overall productivity of the New Zealand economy\u2014is that we are effectively creating an unlevel playing field in a world where there are global flows of capital. A bidder who is sourcing funds overseas to bid for a profitable New Zealand business pays a lower interest rate in his or her home country than a New Zealand borrower pays when borrowing in New Zealand\u2014unless it is a multinational like Fonterra, which borrows from the international market. In the case of a small to medium sized business facing competition from an overseas purchaser for the purchase of the same assets\u2014again, if everything else is equal; if it is facing the same wage costs, the same sale price for its goods, the same cost for its raw materials\u2014the overseas buyer can afford to pay more for those productive New Zealand assets compared with the New Zealand purchaser of those assets, because the overseas purchaser has a lower cost of funds. So, all other things being equal, overseas purchasers can afford to pay a higher capital sum for that same business enterprise, and I do not think that is in the long-term interests of New Zealand. So we need to have a different mechanism for the Reserve Bank in order to take the pressure off the interest rate device.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe also know that the sole reliance on the interest rate device is, according to the exporters, causing volatility in our exchange rate, which is difficult for them. The volatility of the New Zealand exchange rate is extreme. The New Zealand currency is the fourth most traded currency in the world. It is an astounding statistic. Our currency is traded more than the Indian rupee, a vastly bigger currency than New Zealand\u2019s. It is traded more than the Brazilian real. It is traded more than the South African rand. These economies are vastly bigger than New Zealand\u2019s economy, yet there is more trade in the New Zealand dollar than there is in any of those currencies. I think it is even traded more than the Russian rouble.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cda576a385df4642bb1e874cde39aaf4\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Why is that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb9501d7064a44b29503cbab6ae1b147\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps it is because we have structurally higher interest rates and people are speculating on their knowledge that the Reserve Bank pulls that trigger harder than most other countries in the world have done historically. So the exporters say they need some more tools in the tool kit, other than the interest rate, and they say we need to be using prudential tools in respect of banks more than we do. That is why is this matter is relevant to this discussion. Here we have the Reserve Bank being given more tools in respect of prudential supervision of the insurance sector, yet in the banking sector we have very limited ways in which those prudential tools can be used by the Reserve Bank.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe Reserve Bank has two main functions. The first is the maintenance of stable prices and the second is the maintenance of stability in the financial sector. There is not much doubt that although, relative to the rest of the world, we did pretty well during the global financial crisis, we were not perfect. We had to have Government guarantees of banks, in terms of both retail deposits and wholesale deposits, and we had to have the Reserve Bank buying packets of securities from financial institutions. So although we might have done better relative to some other countries\u2014partly because of the savings history of Australia and the strength of its banks, not because of our own New Zealand - based savings, I would note\u2014it is true that we are not perfect. I think it is worth considering increasing the powers of the Reserve Bank in respect of not just insurance companies but also banks, so that the banks can use prudential ratios to stop the rapid growth of credit in boom times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand we ratchet up the interest rate. The interest rate that New Zealand borrowers, including exporters, have to pay goes up and their cost structure goes up. Actually, most of that money ends up going overseas, because it is owed to overseas lenders. It does not stay in the New Zealand economy. The Labour Party believes we should be conferring on the Reserve Bank and making explicit that, instead of relying purely on interest rates, it can actually adjust prudential ratios for the banks so that they have to source more of their money offshore. Sometimes they will have difficulty doing that, and we will stop some of these flows of \u201Chot\u201D money in and out of the country, which is what really caused the over-inflation of the property market. The over-inflation of the New Zealand property market was not based on New Zealanders\u2019 saving more money and therefore having more money in the bank to spend on assets; it was actually because the liquidity in the New Zealand economy increased because of the banks borrowing a lot of money offshore and lending it in New Zealand. That was good for the banks\u2014they earned an extra margin\u2014but it was not good for the New Zealand economy, because it inflated the property bubble and added to the imbalance in the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis bill is good as far as it goes, but the Government is missing an opportunity to make it explicit that the Reserve Bank can use prudential ratios for monetary policy purposes. It can do that only tangentially at the moment; it can use prudential policy first and foremost only for the prudential supervision of the banks. We say that the Reserve Bank needs to be doing more than that and use prudential ratios to control the growth of credit. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u00224e905c77d0cc482c844069a20e3a4caa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e905c77d0cc482c844069a20e3a4caa\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E That was an incredibly scary, scary speech from the Opposition\u2019s spokesman on finance, the Hon David Parker, on the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill. If people offshore are listening to that speech\u2014they are probably not up at the moment; it is very good if they do not hear it, though I guess they can access Hansard at some stage\u2014my goodness gracious me! The only saving grace is that Labour is somewhat behind in the polls, so the impact of what it is saying will probably not be reflected in the New Zealand markets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b4f080fc55d406d9f552207a47e3a0f\u0022\u003EH V Ross Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: It won\u2019t be long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226c9392ee5454f94bd910726dc8b4cc6\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps it will not be long, but I say to the seasoned member from Auckland over there that we have just heard that, essentially, the party that would like to be Government\u2014the second-largest party in New Zealand\u2014is saying we should get rid of the inflation target. It says we should no longer target inflation. That is essentially what that party is saying. It wants to fix the currency or something, because the implication of taking volatility out of the currency is a fixed exchange rate. Members opposite talk about volatility in the currency, and then they talk about exporters. Here is a question: would they like the currency to be volatile around 40c to US$1, or would they like it to be stable at 80c to US$1? Which one? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022851fd1d27ff941309def87f8c2e7320b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: 60c.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3ed60374dc64018a54685bdfa66c5b7\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS\u003C/span\u003E: Would they like it stable at 60c, or volatile between 35c and 45c? I am somewhat flabbergasted at those members. Do we have School Certificate any more? I do not know whether they passed it; it is quite obvious that they did not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003ELet us just think through what Labour members are saying. Here is the point: New Zealand is a debtor nation. New Zealand in 2000 owed the world $100 billion; New Zealand now owes the world $175 billion - odd. On the other side of the House they are talking about savings problems, but actually $75 billion more was borrowed from overseas by New Zealanders\u2014both private and State\u2014over the 9 years of the previous Government. I now understand why they want monetary policy - type inquiries, and why they want to go around the country and campaign on them rather than on the growth story of this Government. They are in denial. They are actually blaming the monetary policy settings for the Reserve Bank, and they are blaming the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act. Members should recall that under their watch inflation used to be 0 percent to 2 percent, and then it went to 0 percent to 3 percent. Under their watch, inflation was floored at 3 percent, so we knew no upside. The cost of debt for New Zealand\u2014the discount of future cash flows of any investment in New Zealand\u2014went up, and the present value went down. CPI was floored at 3 percent\u2014not capped at 3 percent\u2014under their watch. So maybe we can understand why they are in denial and want to change those actual targets and those settings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003ELabour members talk about not wanting volatility. The currency against the US dollar went to 80c under their watch\u201480c. It has been 73.5c or 74c under this Government, but it went to 80c under their watch. If they want to moan about volatility, fair enough, but do they want it fixed and less volatile at 80c, volatile at 40c, or somewhere in between? How will they get there? Only one message has been heard\u2014beyond, perhaps, the Bowen triangle, if you like\u2014in the financial markets who lend to New Zealand. The financial markets who fund New Zealand\u2019s mortgages, who lend to fund working capital in New Zealand, are hearing that the second-largest party in New Zealand\u2014the party that aspires to be the next Government; the party that was in Government for 9 years\u2014wants to throw out New Zealand\u2019s inflation targets in the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act, it wants to bring in some kind of premium on petrol, I suppose, and it wants to bring in some prudential management on mortgages or something. It is all State control. We need a lot more clarity. There used to be a party in the House that went down this path all the time. There was some popular stuff all around it. Actually, there was. Yes, exporters are having a bit of a squeeze at the moment when referenced to the US dollar. But those referenced to the Aussie dollar are not doing too badly. They are not doing too badly, actually. At NZ40c to US$1, which customers would be coming to their door? Perhaps we would have some importers coming in, and exporters would start to be a bit more comfortable trying to manage their way through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EMembers on the other side of the House need to think through just exactly what they are trying to say. They are in denial. The problem is not monetary policy; the problem was the balance between monetary and fiscal policy under the previous Government, which is what we are trying to address. Fiscal policy resulted in real wages in New Zealand increasing only 3 percent over 9 years. They increased only 3 percent over 9 years because of the fiscal settings of that Government. What were those fiscal settings? An incredible hike in tax rates and tax take\u2014$25 billion more tax was taken in 2007 than in 2001. Members on the other side have gone quiet. It was one of the key reasons why real wage growth was only 3 percent. The problem was the balance between fiscal and monetary policy. The learned speaker on the other side was constantly saying that we have to fix and tinker with monetary policy. Actually, Government grew 20 or 25 percent over a couple of years, the tax take was $25 billion more, and New Zealand\u2019s indebtedness went from $100 billion to $175 billion under their watch. Monetary policy ain\u2019t got nothing to do with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EThen they talk about the housing boom. Do members know what fed the housing boom? Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker; this is a third reading speech. Do members know what kicked off the housing boom? It was the increase in the top marginal tax rate from 33c to 39c. If members do not want to take my word for it, that is OK. There is plenty of research out there. I tell them to look at some of the archives, and look what is happening now with the market when it is moving from 39c to 33c and aligning the rates, because they created this credible arbitrage. If members want further evidence, they should look at the briefings to the incoming Minister, be they tax or fiscal. They should look at those taxpayers whose income, interestingly enough, sits around $59,000\u2014$1,000 under that for the top marginal tax rate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003EAnyway, this is a good bill. I felt the need to reply to some of the somewhat confused speeches from the other side of the House; no doubt we have a couple more coming. As I acknowledged earlier, I appreciate and acknowledge the work of the committee and the House on this bill. I acknowledge political points from members on the other side, as naive as they might be. I am grateful for their support of the general thrust of this bill, and I am sure the whole House is grateful for their backing of the general thrust of the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022442707ce52824117bdfe732ae6d1370d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022442707ce52824117bdfe732ae6d1370d\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the next speaker, I say that I have given some latitude to both sides of the House in this debate. This debate is not about monetary policy\u2014that is very clear. If we look at the provisions and the parts of the bill, we see it is not about monetary policy. I ask future speakers to bear that in mind. Although one can certainly refer to monetary policy, it cannot form the substantive part of the debate. This is a third reading debate, so the speeches are not open-ended like in a first reading debate. I also draw members\u2019 attention to Speaker\u2019s ruling 117/4, in particular, which says that \u201COn the third reading of a bill a member cannot discuss\u2014(1) Any matter not included in the clauses of the bill;\u201D. That is very important as we proceed. I trust that future speakers will bear that in mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u002213c85c77368948dcb6c2a11699a09352\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213c85c77368948dcb6c2a11699a09352\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I will bear that ruling in mind. However, I think it is also appropriate in third reading speeches to be permitted a little bit of rebuttal. There was a good deal of misrepresentation in the previous speech by Craig Foss that should not go unanswered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThere was misrepresentation of the Labour Party\u2019s position on the inflation target under the Reserve Bank, and that needs to be dismissed. Labour has never said that the inflation target should go wider. We know that inflation can have a devastating effect on people\u2019s standard of living, especially on Kiwi householders with fixed incomes, and people who struggle to have anything left over at the end of the week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ETo return directly to the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill, it is fine as far as it goes. That is what we have said, and that is what the previous Labour speaker said very eloquently. This measure is designed to improve prudential controls over the insurance sector and provide fairness, transparency, and security over the supervision scheme, for the benefit of policyholders. But it cannot go unsaid that this bill represents a lost opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EWe are in extraordinary economic times. We have seen the collapse of economic orthodoxy. We have seen the collapse of financial institutions. We have seen the punishment of innocent people who entrusted their savings to banks, financial houses, and economic structures on which they should have been able to rely. The financial crisis that we find ourselves in, as part of the global community, is not the construction of the Labour Party or the former Labour Government. It is not our construction. It is an international phenomenon. However, the unfortunate thing is that the New Zealand currency bobs about on the ocean of international trading in a way that disadvantages our exporters. In order to assist the economy to recover, we need to assist exporters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EOne way to assist would be to alter monetary policy and the kinds of prudential structures that exist in the economic system. Taking one measure, this bill, when others could have been employed is a lost opportunity. It represents timidity\u2014in fact, I said earlier that it was cringing timidity\u2014on the part of this Government. It has not been bold enough to deal with some of the big issues in order to restore faith in economic and financial structures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EAll that this bill addresses is the insurance sector. It is a reasonably good bill that is improved by the addition of the 10-page Supplementary Order Paper, which clearly indicates that the Minister of Finance realised that not everything was right in the first draft of the bill. We support the Supplementary Order Paper\u2014we support that. But why take baby steps towards addressing and correcting financial supervision when giant steps are required? Quantum leaps are required, not just step changes\u2014in this case a baby step change\u2014if we are going to provide our exporters, who are far and away the money earners in this economy, with some stability in order for them to trade profitably. It is good that we have security, transparency, and fairness in a supervision scheme for the insurance sector and for the policyholders within that sector. Of course, anything that protects and buffers policyholders\u2014ordinary New Zealanders and New Zealand businesses\u2014from the vicissitudes of the fluctuating financial situation in the world at the moment is good and worth supporting. But it is essential to note that this baby step will not fix the things that need fixing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThis bill will not\u2014and it could have\u2014address the core issues at the heart of the financial and economic malaise that encompasses the world at the moment. The heavy trade in the New Zealand dollar comes at the price of our exporters. It makes our dollar volatile. It makes it very difficult for exporters with very low margins\u2014like most of our commodity producers\u2014to anticipate and roll with the punches in their trading functions. That makes exporting a risky business. It will take more than this bill to fix that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThis is one measure of many that is, appropriately, being put into the hands of the Reserve Bank, as an independent arbiter, to monitor and supervise. On this side of the House we believe that the Reserve Bank needs clearer legislative authority to allow it to use prudential powers to support wider-ranging monetary policy\u2014a different mix within our monetary policy settings. We would address the Reserve Bank\u2019s powers, and we would welcome the inclusion of these supervisory functions in its powers, but we would look at other powers that the Reserve Bank ought to have, because it is hamstrung by the limitations of the tools it has at its disposal. Of course we want inflation controlled. Of course we want stability of prices. But we also need additional measures to fix the kinds of problems that New Zealand experiences, to take pressure off interest rates, to make our dollar a less attractive trading currency than it currently is, and to allow our exporters to flourish. Labour would make those changes. We believe that we should make them. We believe that this bill is heading in the right direction but it is not the step change that the Prime Minister talks about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ENot only is the step change in this bill insufficient, but it represents a lost opportunity. We have lost an opportunity to do something bold, something that would truly make a difference to the economic direction of this country, something that would support our exporters, enable our interest rates to arrive at levels that are manageable, and increase capital flows to exporters. The provision of prudential supervision over the insurance sector is good, and we will support it, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022242579cdf3bf415f891f1cae52c5749e\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member but her time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022421dd6f8b3934efd8e5c8b7e4fcef3ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022421dd6f8b3934efd8e5c8b7e4fcef3ac\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a short call on this, the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill. Although it is somewhat against the trend of the debate so far this morning, I will try to focus on the insurance industry sector and some of the very major challenges that are coming before it. In fact, they are already before the sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe have supported this bill so far, and will continue to do so. We believe that the insurance industry has been largely unregulated. That is against international norms and expectations, and, indeed, against local expectations as well. There has been a degree of self-regulation in the New Zealand insurance industry and, to be fair, for the most part that has worked. The industry has been proactive in developing its own framework for self-management. It has set out to achieve a fairly high standard of ethical behaviour, a degree of transparency, and the requirement of some proof of financial solvency within the sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EHowever, we cannot be at all complacent. Clearly there is a history of reliability within the New Zealand insurance sector. The same could be said for the financial sector, up until quite recently, as was referenced by the previous speaker. We know that goodwill and past performance are far from being reliable indicators of future performance and the potential for future risk and, indeed, collapse. The insurance industry has never been one for the faint-hearted. There are some significant and some very new and demanding challenges ahead of it, so this bill is timely to the extent that it does endeavour to give some surety, or at least a degree of acknowledgment, that the sector needs to be regulated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe bill is complex, it is wide ranging, and there were elements within the original drafting that caused us some concern. Those concerns were also reflected by other stakeholders, industry people, and political interests as well. One of the primary concerns we saw was that the bill as originally drafted, on the matter of solvency standards, created the potential for New Zealand - based operators and companies to have a significant disadvantage particularly against providers from Australia. That could have imposed a competitive disadvantage on our companies and potentially could have driven our New Zealand insurers offshore. Fortunately, the select committee did some useful work and responded to some of the submitters. The provisions of clause 53 essentially remove the likelihood of sending our insurance industry overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIt is clear that one of the more serious challenges facing the industry, which makes the need for regulation to better protect consumers against the likelihood of industry failure, is the reality of climate change and the impact that will have on the assets that the industry protects and in which the industry invests. It is a considerable amount of cash every year. Insurers internationally are recognising that global warming and climate change are a serious business issue, as well as an environmental issue\u2014that the two are intertwined. To that end, international companies are endeavouring to lead by example to reduce their own environmental footprint and to encourage suppliers and customers to do likewise. IAG is far and away the largest player in the New Zealand market. It has gross written premiums in excess of $1.2 billion and holds something like 2\u00BD million policies. The company is also one of the most active in advocating for, and acknowledging, environmental and social, as well as financial, considerations being incorporated into risk assessments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EClimate change is already having, and will continue to have, serious consequences for our natural and our built environments, our national and local infrastructure, and our ability to conduct business and to maintain the integrity of our communities. We are already seeing, both locally and internationally, instances of much higher intensity and much more regular adverse weather events than we have seen historically. The insurance companies, the industry, that are carrying the risk for any damage to our natural and physical resources are of course highly exposed, and will become more so as climate change and the effects of it continue to develop over the coming few years and decades. If we do not respond quickly, if we do not respond intelligently, and if we do not respond by changing our policies and our practices towards future-proofing our private and public assets against the effects of climate change, we can confidently expect to see the insurance sector, as all others, come under increased pressure and increased likelihood of failures and collapses. Failure to future-proof our economy by attending to the effects of climate change will see the insurance industry either taking some huge financial hits or potentially withdrawing cover from the areas most exposed to the risks and challenges of climate change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EI will quote from IAG\u2019s website, which reminds us that that company is the largest player in the New Zealand industry. This company has become very active in the area of sustainability and in acknowledging the threats to the industry. The company states that \u201CThe weather has become a vital concern to the insurance industry. \u2026 We accept the strong scientific consensus that human-induced climate change is real. The consequences of climate change are being seen and heard with higher frequency and greater intensity. Those who live in risky areas could well find insurance less affordable and less readily available unless new solutions are found.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe bill we are debating today is one useful and positive step towards finding new solutions. It provides a mechanism for the continued evaluation of the financial and operational health of the insurance sector. It should, to some extent, provide an early warning system, if you like, that will let us know whether any players in the sector are starting to get into any real difficulties. That is a necessary element, albeit in itself not a sufficient one, of what must be a much more comprehensive and much more sustained response to protecting our individual and our collective future, in what will be a much more dynamic, much more unpredictable, and much more volatile, physical and economic environment. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u002219410a00a0294c86a436c79e8e0e783e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219410a00a0294c86a436c79e8e0e783e\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take a call on the third reading of the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill. Before I get into the detail of my contribution, I acknowledge the previous speaker for making an interesting and thought-provoking contribution. It was one of the few speeches this morning that actually focused on the insurance sector, and I found that quite refreshing, so I thank Mr Clendon for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EAs we have heard across the debate on this bill\u2019s passage through the House, this bill focuses on ensuring that our insurance sector is robust and that the public can have confidence in it. It is one of a number of measures that have been taken around the supervision of various entities within the financial sector. There has been quite some discussion around the need for care in that area, and certainly that view is shared across the House. But we do have to be careful, I think, when we are talking about prudential supervision, not to get caught up in the hysteria of concern around one aspect of the financial sector, and use that heavy-handed and emotion-fuelled response to deal with all aspects of the sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe aspect of the bill I want to focus on in my contribution is that, yes, the insurance sector must be regulated; yes, we need to bring it into line with international benchmarks, and that is certainly what this bill is doing; and we need to ensure that there can be public confidence in what is a very important sector for all New Zealanders. What we have to be careful of, though, as we must with any regulation that we bring into existence, is the need to have a balanced and appropriate response to the scale of the issue in this sector. We are not talking about finance company failures, we are not talking about banks, and we are not talking about some other more worrying aspects of the financial sector. We are talking about the insurance market, in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EAs my friend Mr Foss said in an earlier contribution, this is not where the problem has been in terms of New Zealanders losing vast quantities of money. We recognise that the insurance sector needs to be appropriately regulated, and I think that giving the Reserve Bank the power to ensure that all insurance companies that carry on business in New Zealand need to be licensed and subject to various prudential supervision requirements, which we can talk about later, is an appropriate step. But we have to be mindful of the need to be balanced in our response. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Internal Affairs, in his contribution at the beginning of the debate, described the bill as sensible and well targeted, and I think that is exactly right. But I would add to that comment the word \u201Cbalanced\u201D. The challenge we always have is to ensure that our response is balanced and appropriate. Maryan Street, in her contribution, referred to it as baby steps. If Labour had a view of what else needed to be done to regulate insurance companies, we certainly did not hear it from Labour members during the select committee process. If this is a baby step, I challenge those members to tell us what in the insurance sector\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c679136cb164f23ae450ddc2b330e7f\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: No, she wasn\u2019t talking about this bill, Amy\u2014she was talking about the whole area of monetary policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225198df2946594fdb8083f32b83a19153\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, she was making a speech on this bill, I say to Mr Nash, so it is not unreasonable to assume that she was speaking about it, although it might be an unreasonable assumption to make that Labour would actually talk about the bill in front of us. But she referred to it as baby steps, and I disagree with that. In terms of the insurance sector, this is exactly the appropriate response needed for the level of actual risk and concern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EIt is worth pointing out that the powers that can be exercised under this bill have to be exercised for the purposes of promoting public confidence in the sector. That is the test. We do not need to regulate for the sake of it. There is no point in measuring the success of our supervision programme by the sheer quantity of red tape we create. We have to ensure that what we have done is no more than necessary, because let us not forget that any time we put compliance costs on business\u2014and insurance companies are no different\u2014that cost is passed through to consumers. If we care about keeping down the costs to consumers, we have to be mindful of not over-regulating. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThis bill is an appropriate response to the challenges faced by the insurance sector. I think the amendments made by the Finance and Expenditure Committee, which I described in my second reading contribution, will assist in getting that balance right. We now have a response that is appropriate, that is well considered, and that will serve the needs of this sector and the New Zealand public. I thank the House for working, for the large part, collaboratively and constructively on this bill during its passage through the House. It is certainly good to see such important legislation having widespread support in the House. I take the opportunity once more to commend the bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022770cc963b50a40179e8d9e26fec177e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022770cc963b50a40179e8d9e26fec177e8\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I also rise to support the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill. This bill is important to the people of New Zealand for three reasons, which I will outline and elaborate on. The first reason is that this bill is another step in achieving clear, robust laws and regulations across the financial sector. The second is that it will provide a much higher level of security to New Zealanders with exposure to the insurance industry. The third reason, which is important, is that it tidies up legislation governing the sector where there was an unacceptable level of uncertainty. Tightening up the legislation, regulating an important segment of the financial sector, and providing certainty are the three reasons why Labour is supporting this bill. These measures will help to provide confidence to all New Zealanders that their Parliament is working together to further protect their rights and their money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders have lost a significant amount of money in this economic recession\u2014New Zealanders who worked incredibly hard, saved hard, dreamt, and aspired, and who should be allowed to live and retire with dignity. Parliament has already passed legislation in several areas to tighten or make laws where there really was a deficit in the financial sector, and this is just another step in ensuring that hard-working Kiwis can have confidence in the New Zealand financial sector. That is what I mean when I say this bill is another step in achieving clear, robust laws and regulations across this very important sector of the economy. It is not only sensible but also absolutely necessary in this day and age. That is why we all work together, across all parties, on this type of legislation, which benefits all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAlthough the New Zealand insurance sector is not generally in distress and was not in distress during the heights of the economic recession, the global financial crisis has demonstrated the vulnerability of the financial sector as a whole. Currently, New Zealand does not have a framework for the prudential regulation and supervision of insurers. The current insurance legislation is outdated and inconsistent in its application across the diversity of the New Zealand insurance market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThere has been extensive consultation on the provisions of this bill. A draft version of the bill was released for consultation in April 2009. The draft bill reflected policy approvals made by Cabinet in December 2007 and August 2008. Prior to that, the proposals originated from the Review of the Financial Products and Providers work stream. A discussion document was released by the Ministry of Economic Development in September 2006. A further consultation paper was released by the Reserve Bank in May 2008. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe second reason why I support this bill is that it provides a much higher level of security to New Zealanders with exposure to the insurance industry. The bill requires all insurers operating in the New Zealand market to be licensed and supervised by the Reserve Bank, and to comply with minimum prudential requirements. The Reserve Bank will have powers to act in respect of insurers that are in distress or in other difficulties, and I will elaborate on these points in a minute. That said, in the end the new regime has been designed around a self-managing approach. For example, insurers are expected to devise and adhere to their own fit and proper risk management policies, subject, of course, to Reserve Bank oversight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe cost to the Reserve Bank associated with the insurance proposals is estimated to be in the range of $2.5 million to $4 million per annum on an ongoing basis, once the prudential regulation proposals for insurance have been fully implemented. The new insurance prudential supervision regime will generate transitional and ongoing compliance costs. However, the new costs will be incurred largely at the stage of the transition to the new regime. Also, the overall marginal cost to the industry is mitigated by its relatively light-handed and comparatively non-prescriptive approach. In addition to this, foreign-owned insurers that operate in New Zealand are already subject to a degree of regulation by their home country supervisors. The regulatory impact statement concluded that the benefits contained in the regulatory regime outweighed the costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI will outline some of these costs now. Insurers will incur a cost in applying to be licensed under the regime. This includes the cost of familiarisation with the new regulatory requirements, self-assessment against the regime, preparing an application, dealing with the Reserve Bank as a supervisor, and making any organisational and business changes needed to qualify for a licence. The proposed regulatory and supervisory requirements will impose additional compliance costs on insurers, including the need to maintain structures to verify compliance with requirements, to maintain capital in line with the minimum standards, and to report regularly to the Reserve Bank. These are not onerous requirements or costs, at all. They are not expected to be significant relative to insurers\u2019 revenue and profits, and they are not likely to affect the ability of insurers to continue to provide an insurance service at current levels\u2014this was one point that we made very clear at the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2014although the impact on small insurers may be proportionally greater than on large insurers; we recognise that. Once insurers are licensed, those costs are likely to become routine costs of doing business, and we do not believe that they represent a material increase in costs over the status quo. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ECompliance with capital adequacy and solvency requirements may place constraints on insurers\u2019 business operations to a small degree. These requirements and the associated costs are generally aligned to internationally accepted prudent practice for the insurance industry. The regulatory reporting of public disclosure requirements will impose some additional costs on insurers beyond existing levels, but these are not expected to be significant relative to insurer revenue and existing public reporting requirements. The costs will be higher for those insurers that do not currently have to comply with the Financial Reporting Act 1993. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe proposed mandatory requirement for insurers to have a financial strength rating will impose additional costs on those insurers that are not currently rated. Ratings are already mandatory for most general insurers, and a number of other insurers have voluntary financial strength ratings. That is just common sense if one wants to attract consumers into one\u2019s financial institution. The annual cost to insurers of having a rating is expected to be in the range of around $30,000 to $40,000. There will be indirect costs associated with ratings, such as management time and the provision of information. In some cases, the cost of ratings will be absorbed by insurance providers, although in other cases some or all of the cost might be passed on to policyholders. In order to minimise costs for those that can least afford them, the bill provides an exemption for certain very small insurers with annual gross premiums below a prescribed threshold. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe Reserve Bank has the power to require information from insurers, which the bank can require to be audited at the insurers\u2019 expense. Costs will be incurred on a case by case basis by insurers who breach the regulatory requirements. In both cases the bank will adopt a risk-based approach to supervision, which means that only non-compliant or at-risk insurers will face a specific cost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of risks with the legislation. Licensing requirements may represent a barrier to entry for potential new market participants, and increased supervision may reduce market discipline on insurers and increase moral hazard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, the reasons why Labour is supporting this bill are that, firstly, it is another step in achieving clear, robust laws and regulations across the financial sector. The second reason is that it will provide a much higher level of security to New Zealanders with exposure to the insurance industry. The third reason why Labour is supporting this important bill is that it tidies up legislation relating to the sector where there has been an unacceptable level of uncertainty. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022 data-id=\u002272773e7b04cd490bb5d2afe43b69fb86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272773e7b04cd490bb5d2afe43b69fb86\u0022\u003EAARON GILMORE (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to quickly take a short call on the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Bill; particularly given that is my birthday I do not want to take a lot of time talking. I will touch on a couple of things. This bill fits in very nicely with the prudential security rules being put in place by our Government, and it is another step in another sector. A lot of work has been done on trustees and other things, but I will touch on one point briefly. Opposition members discussed at length in their earlier speeches the issues around the need for other forms of prudential security outside the insurance sector. Well, actually the Reserve Bank is doing that, and doing a very good job of putting in place those prudential rules, particularly around liquidity rules and self-funding of deposits. I think that is a good thing, and we all support that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EThis bill puts in place for the first time in a very long time a set of rules around regulation of insurance companies, bringing them all together, and that has to be a nice thing. It allows more surety and safety for those people out there, all those mums and dads and everybody else, for their insurances and their investments in insurance companies to be safer. We are highly supportive of that because it allows a greater step in the right direction to protect those savings and investments and it helps economic growth. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221ffcf3e9ec89496db2bbddf17f190273\u0022\u003EMotor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e415cad46291450a94488eb2ac954d1c\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d8898d6c81214eafafd9cb3092434b4d\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to principal Act\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022 data-id=\u00221727dfd5d2694b0cb8e7293d1045603d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221727dfd5d2694b0cb8e7293d1045603d\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BOSCAWEN (Minister of Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E The Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill proposes to amend the Motor Vehicle Sales Act 2003 to improve its operation. The purpose of the Motor Vehicle Sales Act 2003 is to promote and protect the interests of consumers in relation to motor vehicle sales. This measure creates an environment in which consumers have the information and confidence they require in order to make informed decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EA statutory review of the Motor Vehicle Sales Act in 2006 identified that its operation could be improved in a number of ways. The Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill introduces changes to the Act to improve its operation and ensure that consumers\u2019 interests continue to be protected in relation to motor vehicle sales. This includes ensuring consumers have access to quality information that allows them to make informed purchasing decisions. The bill also removes compliance costs and red tape for motor vehicle traders, private sellers, and motor vehicle purchasers. The amendments are in three broad areas: disclosure requirements, registration requirements, and the operation of the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u00222202b6c60a0b4fd180672692f491fc4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222202b6c60a0b4fd180672692f491fc4b\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise and speak in support of the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill, and I start by acknowledging the new Minister of Consumer Affairs, Mr Boscawen, who is in the chair. It is good to see him here and I look forward to engaging in an interesting and robust debate with him over the next few hours on the issues in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003ELabour supports this bill. It required review to ensure that it is operating effectively, and that review identified a number of areas for change. Before I get into that, let me start by saying we have a situation that is not different from what occurred a couple of weeks ago when the Minister of Consumer Affairs was an ACT Minister. Of course, the previous Minister, the honourable Heather Roy, has steered this legislation through, to date, in this Government, although much of the work was started by the previous Labour Government. We now have another ACT Minister of Consumer Affairs, the Hon John Boscawen, and I congratulate him on that appointment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EMr Boscawen is somebody of whom we do not know how he will take on his new role, so we are looking forward to hearing his comments today. But it is fair to say that from this side of the Chamber we believe that an important part of a portfolio like consumer affairs is protection, and that will often require us to have good, solid protections in law and in regulation. Of course when we are discussing the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill and the changes that it provides for, certainly we want to see that remain the case. Our concern with ACT Ministers is that they can have a philosophical objection to concepts like regulation and legislation. But I hope that in this case we will be able to agree on more things than we disagree on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe main purpose of this bill is to make a number of compliance-related amendments to the Motor Vehicle Sales Act 2003. Of particular significance is the increase of the financial limit on the jurisdiction of the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal. I will talk more about the tribunal and its work, but I will start in this first call\u2014and I will be taking others, I am sure\u2014by acknowledging the work of the tribunal. Certainly, consumer access to complaint processes is really important. Another significant factor is that they should be robust but easy to use. So this bill increases the jurisdiction of the tribunal, which is a positive thing, although it would be fair to say that most New Zealand consumers are probably not looking at vehicles in the range of $50,000 to $100,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EIt is a good bill in that it makes some amendments to the current law. This bill was initiated under the previous Labour Government. Motor vehicle sales are very significant. New Zealand is a country that is highly reliant on roads and motor vehicles, so getting this right is important. During the course of the work I undertook on the loan shark issue it was raised with me that for many, many New Zealanders who cannot afford to buy their own home, their motor vehicle becomes the most significant purchase they will make. So getting that process right and making sure they are protected and have redress with their problems, as provided for by the disputes tribunal, is very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EIn South Auckland, for example, \u014Ct\u0101huhu is an area where there are many motor vehicle sales yards. During the course of the work I was doing it became obvious to me that many people were being severely disadvantaged by the action of those motor vehicle salespeople and motor vehicle yards. It raised a particular point about enforcement of legislation, because we have protections in law. We need to ensure that consumers are literate and know their rights, that they are financially literate and know that they have recourse to action, and that we enforce the provisions that are there. But some of the worst examples of high interest rates and extortionate levels of fees were ones that I found in relation to motor vehicle sales. So that is very relevant to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EJust looking at the specific purpose of the bill, as has been said it is to promote and protect the interests of consumers in relation to motor vehicle sales. We are glad to see we are dealing with this bill. Whether it is the most urgent thing that requires urgency so it can be pushed through is another whole question, but I will leave that to other colleagues to come back to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe specific provisions of the bill provide for seven main changes. There are provisions around processes to renew the annual registration of motor vehicle traders, and that is partly about reducing compliance costs on traders. Let it be said that we have no problem with the idea of reducing compliance costs of businesses. There are some across the Chamber who often try to make out that this party is not business-friendly, but that is not true. We are a party that likes to see balance and the interests of both consumers and businesses taken into account. Reducing compliance costs is not a bad thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe bill also adds a requirement for providing information to the registrar when there are new directors or persons involved in the management of a registered company. It closes a loophole that prevents the automatic banning of traders whose registration has lapsed following conviction under the Act, removes the requirement for a private seller to display a consumer information notice when selling through a car market, and removes car market operators from the definition of motor vehicle traders. Essentially, the argument is that they are just providing a space where that market takes place. The bill removes the requirement for transactions between traders, or traders and wreckers, to display a consumer information notice, and, as I have already mentioned, it increases the financial limit on the jurisdiction of the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal from $50,000 to $100,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe Motor Vehicle Sales Act is not one of the oldest Acts we have, by quite some way. It came into force in December 2003 and it provides for the registration regime that we are now amending with this bill. It also provides for the information disclosure requirements and the establishment of the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal. The policy underpinning that, which is still, of course, relevant, is that there was a requirement for those trading motor vehicles to be registered, a requirement for information disclosure concerning used motor vehicles, and provision for consumer redress through the tribunal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EWhen the bill was brought in in 2003, it required a review after 2 years. That review was completed, and tabled in the House on 22 March 2006, and I guess it provides quite a lengthy background to this bill here in the Parliament today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EGoing back to the importance of motor vehicles, which I will touch on again in later contributions, I say that getting this right is important for New Zealanders who are struggling at the moment. In tough economic times, making sure that consumer protection is strong and that people are not ripped off\u2014or, if they are, that they have redress\u2014is significant. People can ill afford to lose money in such tight economic times. This is why we support the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill. I am sure colleagues will also be talking about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003ELet me also flag that I want to look at this bill later on in a broader context of consumer legislation and at how the various proposals in this bill align with what we might consider to be a robust framework for consumer protection and information. I am sure that as a new Minister Mr Boscawen will be particular interested in hearing our point of view on what a framework for consumer affairs could look like. We have some pretty strong views on that. Those in the Chamber, including the Hon John Boscawen, know that we have a particular interest in protecting vulnerable consumers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI go back to my point about motor vehicle sales yard in \u014Ct\u0101huhu, in particular vulnerable consumers who are ripped off daily by motor vehicle sales people. I am sad to say that, but it is the reality. A woman called Catriona MacLennan, in Auckland, a journalist and a lawyer who works in the community law sector, will be able to evidence that for the new Minister. I think it will be very important for him to get that information. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00223f5739cf300b4b7294d2496fcd4bc33c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f5739cf300b4b7294d2496fcd4bc33c\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to follow on from my colleague Carol Beaumont and to pick up where she left off\u2014that is, to reinforce the view on this side of the Chamber that vulnerable consumers are those who require our protection. I also want to talk a little bit about regulation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI know I bang on about regulation and people get sick of the fact that I am really interested in it, but the process that has been adopted is really good and I want to commend it. Carol Beaumont mentioned in her contribution that the Motor Vehicle Sales Act, which was passed in 2003, had a 2-year review built into it. I quite like that concept. Sometimes 2 years is too soon; actually, given how long it has taken for that 2-year review to turn into something practical\u2014the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill, which is before the Committee today\u2014maybe 2 years is a good time to get things cracking. That process enabled the new regulatory framework that had been put in place to be subject to the test of time and experience, and the contribution of major\u2014I was going to say \u201Ckey\u201D, but I have stopped using that word\u2014stakeholders. I shall identify the ones consulted: the Motor Trade Association, the Independent Motor Vehicle Dealers Association, the Motor Industry Association, the New Zealand Automobile Association, and Consumer New Zealand. That is not a full list, but it shows us the degree of stakeholder engagement in a really good process of review. So I commend the process to Parliament and to the new Minister who has taken up the role of champion of consumers. I hope that is how he sees his role as Minister of Consumer Affairs; certainly, that has been my experience from working with him on the Commerce Committee. He was probably a member of the select committee when the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill came before us, and he will recall the work we put into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EAnother thing that I thought was useful was that the review process picked up a number of recommendations. I think there were a dozen in total, many of which are picked up in this bill now. Post the review, a discussion document was produced that set out the proposed amendments to the Act. It was released in March 2007 for discussion. Then there is a little gap in time; I know that a general election intervened, and that may have had something to do with it, but the bill was introduced into Parliament on 26 May last year, and it came to the very efficient and excellent Commerce Committee, which reported back on 14 December 2009. So I ask why we are dealing with it under urgency on a Thursday morning, when the Commerce Committee would normally be undertaking its very important work. Instead, we are in the Chamber sitting under urgency. The calendar on the wall says 24 August, but I know that it is not really 24 August; it is 26 August. Under urgency, in this place alone, time stands still. We are still on Tuesday, because that was when we entered urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI notice that the Government has used the expression \u201Cextended sitting hours\u201D, and I want to put on record that I am really supportive of the change of name from \u201Curgency\u201D to \u201Cextended sitting hours\u201D. The use of the word \u201Curgency\u201D indicates that things are urgent, but if this bill was urgent it would have been dealt with before Christmas last year. It is definitely not urgent. I support the idea of asking the Standing Orders Committee to change the Standing Orders so that the expression \u201Curgency\u201D would be used for what is generally referred to now as \u201Cextraordinary urgency\u201D, which is when the House has to immediately take a matter through all its stages. Usually it happens post Budget, but there are other occasions, as well\u2014often, when we find some fault with the law that we have to correct very quickly. Those sorts of cases are genuine urgency, but I think extended sitting hours of House like this should be called extended sitting hours. I know that I am slipping away from the topic, but I am allowed to refer to the context of the discussion we are having at 11 o\u2019clock on a Tuesday morning\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b9d8f2cbe794e21b4fded2139f6bc63\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Thursday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a18b96c7b524945979abfa308b6aa82\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: It is Thursday morning, but the calendar on the wall says Tuesday morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252d8569153ad41deb8e8007953ab182c\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Forever Tuesday morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226035316e2bad417297a81bd7dc566430\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Forever Tuesday. That would make a really good song, I reckon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI am diverting from the subject. Let me get back to the really serious issue, which is that an excellent process was put in place to make sure that the Act would be capable of being refreshed after the experience of its operation. This bill essentially is an opportunity to refresh the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI think the degree of consultation that occurred\u2014and I pay credit to the officials for that\u2014is indicative of that process. The closing date for submissions was 20 August 2009. We received and considered eight submissions from interested groups and individuals, and we heard two submissions. I pay credit to the Ministry of Consumer Affairs and the committee\u2019s excellent advisers from that ministry for that, and the reason I give credit to them is that if the bill had been controversial, there would have been a lot more interest in it. The fact that they were able to do so much consultation prior to the arrival in Parliament of the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill\u2014see, I got mention of it in there\u2014is the reason why there was so little controversy or commentary about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ETo deal with the specifics provisions of the bill, which I am sure the Chair is really keen I get on to, one of the issues that the committee managed to do is update the legislation so that it speaks to the modern environment\u2014the electronic environment\u2014that we all operate in. We have recommended that clause 7 be amended to make it clear that the Motor Vehicle Sales Act requires motor vehicle traders to display a consumer information notice when displaying or offering for sale a used motor vehicle physically, or when displaying or offering for sale a used motor vehicle over the Internet when a contract to buy the motor vehicle can be entered into online. That is the critical point that I want to emphasise; it is not a question of having a consumer information notice on every single page where a car is offered for sale on TradeMe, or whatever website people are using, but when people can enter into a contract to buy online, that information needs to be made available. That is really important. Consumers need to have access to that information before they enter into the transaction itself. The purpose of the change that we made to the bill was to distinguish between Internet advertisements that offer the ability to enter into a contract to buy the vehicle online, and therefore should display a consumer information notice, and Internet advertisements that are effectively the same as classified advertisements in local newspapers for which the provision of a consumer information notice would be an unnecessary and onerous requirement. That is a very sensible arrangement that we have entered into.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI personally would not buy a car on the Internet. I have bought other things on TradeMe but I certainly have not bought a car. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b93bea1ead640a391e9b370b82c9e2d\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: What other things?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7025f400ecc4509aae51cb8ad507dcc\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: I think the Chair might rule me out of order if I started talking about the lenses for my lovely Canon SLR camera. We will not talk about photography being my favourite hobby outside this place, either. The point I am making is that the purpose of the legislation is to have a regulatory framework that is fit for purpose, and we have to take into account the new environments within which people make purchases. It took me a long time to feel that I could make a secure purchase on the Internet. I have now managed to do that with DVDs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022863d2cc18f3e45f18cb0e6f4669317d5\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: DVDs? Don\u2019t try to table them!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee42dcd520af49cbaad07aa03a250bba\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: I will not try to table one as an example, just in case I am told it is not a document. The point is if the wording in our legislation does not match the changes in technology, then it will simply not be able to achieve its purpose. I am very pleased with the changes that have been made to make the Act modern. The previous Labour Government introduced the original legislation. This Government has managed to update it, and I pay tribute to it for doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge the previous Minister of Consumer Affairs, who played a very important role. I compliment her on her presentations to the Commerce Committee. I thought she was excellent. I want to put that on the record, and I think I can rightfully use a bill that she introduced to this House to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u002272da0332097f48139ea9801be6b0f238\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272da0332097f48139ea9801be6b0f238\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I want to talk a bit about the comments made by my colleague the Hon Lianne Dalziel about people\u2019s purchasing habits online. Although she may not yet have made her first online car purchase, many, many New Zealanders have. I do not have the statistics to hand but many New Zealanders are purchasing motor vehicles, camera lenses, and other things online. There is a growing trend whereby people are buying and selling houses online, and, as my colleague Carol Beaumont mentioned today, these are major purchases and major decisions in their lives. When people enter into a contract to buy or sell those sorts of items, it is absolutely critical that purchasers in particular can trust the process and trust that they are not being duped. That is one of the reasons why this bill is very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI thank all my colleagues on the Commerce Committee for their work on this bill. I also thank Heather Roy, the previous Minister of Consumer Affairs, for her work on the bill and her work generally in that portfolio area. I congratulate the Minister in the chair, the Hon John Boscawen, the incoming Minister of Consumer Affairs, on his new role. I really look forward to hearing his pronouncements and what he has to say on this bill and on future issues concerning consumers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EOne of the most important things about this bill is that it is very much a common-sense measure and a step in the right direction. That is why Labour is supporting it. The bill makes some quite important amendments to current law. As members have heard, the bill was initiated under the previous Labour Government. Given New Zealanders\u2019 high proportion of vehicle ownership, the bill will make a difference for many consumers, as other speakers have said. Members on this side of the Chamber certainly care about consumers, and any legislation that protects consumers is important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAs my colleague Lianne Dalziel also mentioned, Labour is perplexed as to why this bill has come up, again, under urgency. I think this is the third time I have spoken on this bill, and every single time I have spoken on it, the House has, I think, been in urgency. Although the bill is obviously tremendously urgent, it seems to have taken quite a long time in between the bits of urgency for it to come back to the House. I am a bit perplexed as to how something can be so urgent yet have a big pause until the next bit. I have been scratching my head about that, given the important issues out there at the moment in terms of the number of New Zealanders who are out of work and the fact that the economy is trying to move out of a very bumpy recession. I would have thought that an important priority of the Government would be to try to create jobs and get people back into work. However, this urgent bill must, somehow, fit into a wider plan that maybe we are not aware of at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI have been thinking about the last time I spoke on this bill, and I think it is worthwhile mentioning a few points again, given the quite lively discussion that followed. We know that many people are struggling to afford to run a car, let alone considering selling one and buying another, because of the rising costs they are facing as a result of the emissions trading scheme. I am sure the new Minister of Consumer Affairs, the Hon John Boscawen, will have a number of things to say about the fact that those costs are being put on to ordinary consumers, that they are facing rises in GST, and that many of them are losing jobs and struggling to find new ones. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe last time I spoke on this bill, I reflected on the importance of the decision to buy a new car. I reflected on my first decision to buy a car. That car was a 1948 Morris Ten. It was kind of blue with runner boards and those little indicators that flick out. It had a crank thing in it, although I did not have to use it very often. The car\u2019s name was Maurice and he was a great car. I had him for about a year and a half and then I sold him. He cost $125 to buy and I sold him about a year and a half later for $125, which I thought was a pretty good deal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI asked other members who were speaking on this bill to reflect on their first cars. We on this side of the Chamber have a good outlet through which to express our views and get our thoughts out there. I am referring to our blog, Red Alert. I am sure that a few members have heard of it and might even read it. I mentioned this issue on Red Alert, and there has been an extraordinary number of responses right across the House and out in the community. Some people got quite emotional when they recalled their first cars and the importance of that purchasing decision, which brings me back to the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill. Consumers need to be protected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EToday I put the same question to the incoming Minister of Consumer Affairs, the Hon John Boscawen. He might like to share with us some of his purchasing decisions about cars. I am sure we would all be really interested to know what his first car was. I think that the decisions people make about important purchases say a lot about them. It would be really interesting to know about other members\u2019 first cars. I wonder what Tony Ryall\u2019s first car was. I know that the Speaker, Dr The Rt Hon Lockwood Smith, takes a great interest in car-purchasing decisions, as I am sure does the presiding officer at the moment, Eric Roy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI come back to the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill and its importance. The bill amends the Motor Vehicle Sales Act, which was passed by the previous Labour Government in December 2003. The bill is important because it brings the provisions in that legislation into the 21st century. It makes those consumer protections more transparent, and it makes sure that the new technologies that have emerged since then and are being used in the sales of vehicles are robust. It would be interesting to do a search on TradeMe to see whether there are any 1948 Morris Ten cars for sale. TradeMe is where many people these days are looking for and purchasing vehicles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe bill introduces a new registration regime for motor vehicle traders, and it also makes them more accountable to consumers. It will also offer some degree of flexibility in terms of participation in the motor vehicle industry. We have heard that the policy that underpins this legislation has several core elements that ensure accountability. They include the requirement for those who trade vehicles to be registered, more disclosure concerning used motor vehicles, and the provision for consumer remedies through the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal. I know that my colleague Carol Beaumont has quite a lot of good thoughts on that. The bill increases the financial limit on the jurisdiction of the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal from $50,000 to $100,000, which is very important, given that consumers have avenues for recourse when it comes to trading. It also intends to reduce the compliance costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002238ada3f6a7074a83a29c867bc933b8cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238ada3f6a7074a83a29c867bc933b8cf\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I will begin by offering my congratulations to the Minister in the chair, John Boscawen. I understand that this is a very significant day for him, because it is the first day that he is sitting in the chair as a Minister presiding over a bill. I also believe, although I have not checked it out, that it is the first day he has spoken in the House when he has not mentioned the emissions trading scheme. I am sure that is still to come. I looked through the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill, and I could not work out where he might be able to fit it in. We might get through a whole bill where we hear from Mr Boscawen but we do not hear about the emissions trading scheme. I appreciate that this is a very significant day for him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge the previous Minister of Consumer Affairs, Heather Roy. I am sure that she presided over this legislation very conscientiously and very thoroughly during the time that she was a Minister, as she was well known for doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI want to talk primarily about the consumer information notices that are required to be displayed in vehicles. I want to ask some questions either of the Minister or of one of the other members of the Commerce Committee. I have read through the bill, I have gone back to the principal Act, and I have read some of the information provided by the Ministry of Consumer Affairs\u2014I know I am a bit of a geek. It is not particularly easy to follow the impact that this change will make. As I read it, it is about reducing the compliance cost for people who are privately trading in motor vehicles. They will not have to display a consumer information notice as they would if they were registered car dealers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EAs I read the principal Act, one of the primary pieces of information supplied in that consumer information notice is a statement that the vehicle is being sold without any finance conditions attached to it. I want to know, either from the Minister or from someone else who is on the select committee, what protections, if any, somebody who trades a vehicle privately has. It could well be that even if a consumer information notice had to be displayed as was required previously, there was no protection in terms of the financing provisions for someone involved in a private vehicle transaction. Maybe someone could purchase a vehicle from somebody else in a private transaction and find that money was still owed on that vehicle by the seller, and therefore the vehicle could be taken off the buyer. I understand from my reading the Act that if a vehicle is purchased from a registered motor vehicle dealer, the dealer has to provide a statement saying there are no financing conditions, and therefore any liability for any previous financing conditions would actually rest with the vehicle dealer rather than with the person who purchases the vehicle. But I want to receive clarification of where people lie in terms of a private transaction in motor vehicle dealing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI was quite surprised when I looked up the information required on a consumer information notice to find that the notice did not necessarily need to supply all of the information that I thought it would. I had always thought of a consumer information notice being a little thing that hangs in the window of the car when I go to a car dealer to buy a car, and that therefore everything that was on that notice was required by the law. I understand now, having read the information, that that is not the case. Not all of the information supplied on the notice has to be supplied; it is supplied simply for ease of reference by motor vehicle dealers. Some clarification of that from the Minister would be quite useful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe reason I am particularly interested in the private transactions is that a significant amount of car trading happens over forums like TradeMe or through private vehicle sales, and I think that will increasingly become the case. We are seeing it even in housing sales. People are increasingly trading their houses over the Internet through TradeMe, without any involvement of real estate agents. Increasingly we will see more cars being traded without the involvement of car dealers. We need to make sure that we get this law really clear and that people are clear on their rights and obligations. That is quite important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWhile I was listening to Clare Curran speaking before me, I reflected on the number of cars that I have owned. I have owned five cars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285bfe20b68744bfb81f34edaa31ccf63\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re not old enough!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e787693197b44b17948b6c1b9995c240\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I have owned five cars. My first car was a Mitsubishi Lancer, which was older than I am. It was a 1977 Mitsubishi Lancer; I was born in 1978. I purchased that one privately. The next car that I owned was a Mitsubishi Starion. That was my favourite car.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022beb82eaf3bef4cf087fbcfb4633f8b22\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Are you sponsored by them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227134d6a176e4303a950877940d6ea26\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Not quite; just hang on a minute. That was also purchased through a private sale. The next car that I owned was a Nissan Terrano. I still own it; that car is good fun.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3f4532aeb2b4715b10a4a1dd0fc0e35\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve got to hear the end of this!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1095a0752544e31a408831354be53c4\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: That is right; it is good\u2014it is worth it. I purchased that car from a licensed motor vehicle dealer. The Nissan Terrano is the only car that I have ever purchased from a licensed motor vehicle dealer, and I still own it. I then bought a big Ford Transit van for the last election campaign. I bought it from a private trader, and that was a very unsuccessful transaction. The van had my face painted all over the side of it; the only problem was that it did not go. We had to tow it everywhere, so it was not a particularly useful addition to my election campaign. That van went by the wayside not long after the election campaign.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6fc5cb9d1d542519ad38201cece98ee\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: A non-starter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d4f00adb4704608bd4cb4b48f6e54f2\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: It was a non-starter, but I still won. I then traded that van down for a little Nissan S-Cargo, which is one of those little bubble cars. It is down in the basement quite often; people will see it down there. The bigger van would not have fitted in the basement, so it was a good trade because it means that I can drive it to work. That was also purchased through a private transaction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI am probably not atypical of somebody my age: I have owned five cars in the 15 years that I have been driving. I got my driver\u2019s licence when I was 15\u201416 years actually; I just did the maths, which has never been a strong point for me. Of the five cars that I have owned, four have been purchased through private arrangements. So to some extent the removal of the consumer information notice would have an impact on me. I am willing to throw the comment out there\u2014I have no absolutely no evidence for it, but that is all right; I have not had much evidence for anything else that I have said today\u2014that younger people are probably more likely to purchase motor vehicles in private transactions rather than through motor vehicle dealers. As we go through the debate on this bill, I think we will see that the lower-value vehicles tend to be exchanged through private sales\u2014through classified advertising like TradeMe, or whatever means. People who go to a car yard will typically spend five grand or more. Those who buy a vehicle for 500 bucks will do so through a private sale, and younger people are more likely to be in that category. This legislation is very important for them, as they will maybe be purchasing their first cars. It is important that they are aware of all of their rights and obligations through that process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI hope the Minister of Consumer Affairs will be able to take a call and clear up what is probably quite a simple matter around these consumer information notices, in terms of what they need to contain and where people are left in respect of previous financing arrangements when there is a private sale of a motor vehicle. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00228b77e87082d942cc89c0f6ecdbedfe90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b77e87082d942cc89c0f6ecdbedfe90\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to be able to take a call on the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill, and I join with other colleagues in acknowledging the presence of the new Minister in the chair, John Boscawen. I have been waiting for the Minister of Consumer Affairs to tell us what his first car was. Someone cruelly suggested that it was a \u201CLamington 3000\u201D. I do not know whether that is true, but it would be interesting to hear from the Minister on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge my colleague in the Wellington central area, Heather Roy, the previous Minister of Consumer Affairs. I know that she, as a Minister, took that job particularly seriously, including the area of motor vehicle sales, where a lot of consumers make what is perhaps one of their larger purchases. I know that she took her responsibilities seriously, and it is very good to see her back in the House today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI will focus my first contribution today on a couple of sections in this bill\u2014in particular, new section 40A, to be inserted by clause 12, about the requirements for people to notify the registrar if a new person becomes involved in the management of a company that is selling motor vehicles. On reflection, I think that is something the new Minister might be interested in, in another part of his life, because the requirement is in relation to a new person becoming concerned with the management of a company. The Minister himself has just recently become concerned about the management of an organisation and I am not sure whether he has notified all of the appropriate people about that. But if the Minister were a motor vehicle trader\u2014actually, in the bill it is extended to a licensed car wrecker, and perhaps some people could suggest that Mr Boscawen has been involved in the wrecking and dismantling of something this week, if not a motor vehicle\u2014he would be interested that new section 40A requires that all people who are doing that give notification about their change of arrangements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson will have to indulge me a little on this, but it is relevant; the purchase of the second car I owned had some relevance to this new section. I purchased a particularly poorly running Nissan Sunny station wagon. That was about 20 years ago; I know that the Hon Judith Collins was somewhat alarmed to learn that she had been driving for 5 years longer than Mr Hipkins had been alive. That is probably alarming for all of us, actually, but particularly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a87e342051b4a7393e71ab836e48bec\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, no\u2014that was legally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235ef29f78da24020ae785df7b27c3a5f\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, right. So the member was legal when she was driving. That is excellent, and important to know. I purchased my second car, the Nissan Sunny station wagon, from a used-car salesman in Invercargill. That probably should have been my first warning\u2014that I was both in Invercargill and in the presence of a used-car salesman\u2014not that I am making any reflection on Invercargill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc81a29f61b940dcb04a5cd3bbcab738\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I just caution the member to be relevant to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eae4c6a50c3b49b68c428e0323babf13\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson. I was in Invercargill purchasing this car, and it was purchased from the father of a friend of mine, who was involved in the firm. Some time had elapsed, and I had to drive from Dunedin to Invercargill with friends to purchase that car. But when I finally got around to purchasing it, the ownership of the dealership had changed and my friend\u2019s father was no longer involved. It would be fair to say that as I drove back from Invercargill to Dunedin\u2014and the Chairperson may be familiar with the part of the road that I am talking about there; there are some quite good straight stretches as one leaves Invercargill\u2014I noticed the car had a distinct wobble. I almost made it to Clinton, which the Chairperson will know well, before we discovered that the crossmember was completely rusted, all the way through. That caused me a bit of drama, but had new section 40A, under clause 12, been in place at that time, I would have at least been able to know there were some changes in the ownership of the company. I think that is important because, as we all know, used-car sales folk rank somewhere about where we do in terms of trustworthiness. In the last survey, politicians were still beating used-car salespeople, but prostitution had moved above us, in terms of being a trusted profession.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211e5c65074a84f32b439a3d43adcc647\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: It is legal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fa8052fef4a457694b9d308cf5f61b6\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right; Mr Hipkins seems well informed on that subject. It is important now that we\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1077d49e4da4f938f886987b6fb8279\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: He keeps a close eye on what\u2019s legal and what\u2019s not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a53d400f2f5f452da0a4e3d5a0c397d1\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014ha, ha\u2014have within this amendment legislation new obligations on people to register a change in ownership. As with all professions, it is important that the motor vehicle sales industry improves its credibility and its performance. Cars are a very important part of people\u2019s purchasing lives, and anything we can do in this bill\u2014and we are doing some good things in this bill to improve that\u2014is great. New section 40A requires people to notify the registrar if a new person becomes concerned in the management of that company. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ELater on, in clause 14, it is stated that it is an offence to fail to notify the registrar of a change, and failure to comply with the provision will see the person banned from trading motor vehicles. That is a very strong punishment, and a very good one, because it means that it is an effective tool; people will want to register the changes if they want to carry on being motor vehicle salespeople. I believe that that is a very useful advance in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI refer back to the process for renewing annual registration, which is provided for in clause 9. Again, this is a balance, as in all consumer legislation, between compliance and the rights and needs of the consumer. In respect of the process that Mr Boscawen will follow as he moves through his time as the Minister of Consumer Affairs in the next 18 months\u2014sadly for him, that time will end next year when the Government changes\u2014I say that it is important that that balance is right. Here in this bill we are making certain new obligations for motor vehicle salespeople\u2014in particular, we are making sure that they register and that they notify any change in the ownership of a company\u2014and there are now penalties in place for not doing that. I think that can be only good for the consumer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAs earlier colleagues have mentioned, a lot of people purchase cars\u2014cars are required by most people in their daily lives\u2014but a lot of the people who are purchasing cars are perhaps not familiar with all aspects of consumer law. Therefore, we need tight protections in this area of consumer law. Someone like Mr Hipkins, who purchased a car when he was about 12 years old, by the sounds of it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4d52107962443259c0656ea185a26bd\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I was 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022845b633b093143b6bd818056cbffba31\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014he was 15 years old, so that was last year\u2014was obviously somebody who, like a lot of people, would have been in need of greater consumer protection. Young people purchasing what for them is perhaps their major asset at that time need the improved and enhanced rules in relation to motor vehicle sales that we see in the bill in front of us today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThere is within this bill the ability for the registrar to cancel the registrations of motor vehicle salespeople if the registrar is satisfied that their company is one that people should not be buying cars from. But as is good in any consumer legislation, there is another stage in the legislation for motor vehicle salespeople themselves, if they feel they have been hard done by. That route to redress in this bill is by the disputes tribunal; clearly, it is important for that to be covered. I see that the committee, in its process of working through the bill, made some changes in that area. Perhaps a member of the committee, or the Minister, might like to clarify what those were. Essentially, the disputes tribunal has jurisdiction over that matter, and it is important that there is a place where any dispute on such matters can be resolved. As motor vehicle salespeople have a fairly bad name in the community, it is possible that they would want the ability to be able to show to people that they had been unfairly dealt with. Clauses 16 and 17 go through and make clear where people will have to go if they are dealing with the disputes tribunal, what the fines are, and where the process will lead them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI think the bill in general, and Part 1 in particular, contain some very good things. I am pleased that Mr Boscawen is here. Most vehicles I know of have four wheels; five wheels is perhaps the preferred option for Mr Boscawen and his party, although it was touch-and-go this week as to whether 4 wheels would be viable. But it seems that the spare wheel is back and hopefully will be able to be used frequently, because I think most of us who have driven cars over a period of time know that the spare wheel can sometimes be the most important wheel on a car.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9c8936bfd93459e8e04f3eda54b8f69\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9c8936bfd93459e8e04f3eda54b8f69\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Let me start by taking up the challenge that my colleagues have given the House. I say that my first vehicle was a baby-blue Mini with a fibreglass clubman front.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218bbcea5b43046cb8aaea2bd6d7486ec\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Blue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fba9f6da0b8a49a1a7ad9d29912ccc64\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT\u003C/span\u003E: I know, I know; I was quite young at the time. I have to say that it was a very cute little car. I thought it suited me very well. I look forward to hearing what the honourable Minister John Boscawen\u2019s car was, when he gets up to speak. I acknowledged our new Minister in my previous contribution, but I also acknowledge Heather Roy. It is great to see her back here. That is wonderful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI will talk specifically about the provisions in the Motor Vehicle Sales Bill about the disputes tribunal. My colleague the Hon Lianne Dalziel went through a bit of the background on process. Although it is fair to say that this has taken quite a long time, it has been a reasonably effective review process. The matters that were raised have been dealt with in this bill. I think it is a very good thing for this House that we have a robust process where we review things, we get people\u2019s input, we then translate that into a bill, and it comes before the House, albeit perhaps somewhat slowly, except for the final bit, which is being forced through under urgency. That seems a little strange. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI will talk specifically about the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal. There are changes in this bill to the jurisdiction of the tribunal and also around decisions being publicly available. The tribunal, established by the Motor Vehicle Sales Act, was brought into effect in December 2003. It can hear claims under the Consumer Guarantees Act, the Fair Trading Act, and the Sale of Goods Act. It can decide claims only when one party is a motor-vehicle trader and the other party is not. Currently, it can decide claims of up to $50,000. This bill amends that by increasing the jurisdiction to $100,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI took the time to have a look at what was suggested in the part of the process where the discussion document went out after the review. The review had 12 recommendations. There were two that I could see that related to the tribunal. One was the extension of the jurisdiction that I have just mentioned. The other was the publication of the decisions of the tribunal. Both of those recommendations have been picked up in this bill. I looked with interest at the annual report of the tribunal. I have to say that it looks like the tribunal is a fairly effective body. In the last year the tribunal reported to\u2014the year ending June 2010\u2014it had 266 applications. That number was up on the previous year. I am unclear whether that is because there are more difficulties or because of a greater understanding of the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe tribunal reports that 93 percent of all applications heard had a decision issued within 2 months of the date of filing. Ninety-five percent of all applications were heard and a written decision given within 3 months of the date that the application was filed. That seems a reasonable process. What is interesting is that in its annual report it provides examples of cases that in the adjudicator\u2019s opinion required special mention. They are quite interesting. The ones that were raised in the annual report of the Auckland tribunal talked about a car-fair trader. The purchaser was a young Spanish holidaymaker who went to the Auckland Carfair at Ellerslie Racecourse, which is very close to the part of Auckland where I work, the Maungakiekie electorate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe example was about the car that he purchased and the issues that went on as a result of that. The second example that the tribunal drew attention to was interesting, as well. It was about a faulty transmission in a 6-year-old vehicle that had travelled only 34,000 kilometres. As the daughter of a mechanic, it does seem to me to be a bit out of order that such a thing would happen. That was the second case that the tribunal drew to attention to. The third case considered whether a problem was caused by contaminated diesel or a faulty fuel-injection system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI think that it is useful for tribunals like this to do that. I am not saying that just to fill up time. It is useful for tribunals to draw to our attention these sorts of cases so that consumers can be informed and that we can look for trends and so on. Interestingly enough, in its annual report, the tribunal made some recommendations for amendments to the Motor Vehicle Sales Act that the adjudicator thinks desirable on the experience of the tribunal. We are looking at amendments to the Motor Vehicle Sales Act in relation to the tribunal. I think this is an example of good practice: that we have a tribunal that is identifying where it finds issues that are worthy of further attention. I think that that is a very good process. In this document I have, it makes recommendations, which I would also like to make, to amend the Act. It concerns section 94(1)(b). It is the provision that requires the tribunal, for the purpose of protecting the public\u2014which should be a fundamental part of consumer legislation\u2014to direct the chief executive of the Ministry of Justice to publish a notice in the Gazette if the tribunal, in determining an application, decides against a motor vehicle trader. This section appears not to impose such requirements on the tribunal when it determines an application against a manufacturer\u2014a manufacturer of a vehicle, as opposed to a trader.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EIn the last case that I told members about\u2014on whether the problem was with contaminated diesel or a faulty fuel-injection system\u2014the manufacturer was found to have breached the Consumer Guarantees Act. But, because of the wording of section 94(1)(b) of the Motor Vehicle Sales Act, the tribunal was unable to direct the publication of the manufacturer\u2019s name in the Gazette. That may be considered a gap that the Minister of Consumer Affairs may wish to close by amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI was pleased to see that, obviously, ministry officials have briefed the Minister well. In a recent media comment, Mr Boscawen referred to this very matter that was suggested about allowing the manufacturer\u2019s details to be published as well as those of the trader. He has acknowledged the point raised by the tribunal, and I think that is fantastic. This is based on the real world: here is the problem, the problem is identified, and the ministry picks up the issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EWhat interests me though, a little, I say to the honourable Minister, is what it says, and I would like the Minister to answer a question on it. It says: \u201C \u2018These issues are being considered as part of the \u201COne Law\u201D review of consumer legislation currently being undertaken by the Ministry of Consumer Affairs,\u2019 Mr Boscawen said.\u201D The One Law\u2014One Door review\u2014which I will talk more about later, everybody will be pleased to know\u2014is a consumer law reform discussion paper, and submissions on it have closed. It is looking at the identification of updates and principle-based legislation, and it is looking at seven pieces of legislation. It specifically does not include the Motor Vehicle Sales Act. I am aware that the tribunal deals with other Acts, as I have just said, dealing with consumer guarantees, fair trading, and the like, but I worry a little bit because at the time of my loan sharks bill the then Minister, Heather Roy, said that some of the concerns we were raising around extortionate interest rates and irresponsible lending would also be covered by the One Law process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EAgain, I think that that was a marginal call. It was convenient to be able to say that, so that it looked as though the Government actually cared about this issue\u2014an issue that is harming many in our community. In the area where I live and work, it harms many people. There was evidence recently for those who saw the Campbell Live programme about a young man looking for loans in Onehunga and Panmure who was offered all sorts of interest rates. But going back to the point, at the time, the Minister said that that issue was covered by the One Law review process. I hear now that the new Minister says that this issue around vehicle manufacturers as opposed to traders can also be covered by that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI am a little worried about what I call review creep. There is a bit of review creep going on here in terms of the consumer law reform process; any issue that is raised in terms of problems for consumer law is somehow, we are told, packaged up in this. When people take time to look at the document, it certainly does not seem immediately clear how the issues of excessive interest rates, in particular, are a central point of it. They were marginal. There was a separate review of that process going on. In looking at in relation to the Motor Vehicle Sales Act I cannot necessarily see how the matter that the Minister has said would be dealt with, will be dealt with. I urge the Minister to answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022add683b8b4974bedae60f16a70ebef1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022add683b8b4974bedae60f16a70ebef1b\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E I know Mr Chairperson had a range of speakers available, so it is a pleasure to have been chosen amongst those options.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c96326f5902747a5b605201c80966b05\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: A stellar field!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221edd4856cdb84e349dd240119b616758\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. I add my congratulations to the Minister in the chair, John Boscawen. It is fantastic to see one of the wider class of \u201908 promoted to such a prestigious position. Minister Joyce jumped the gun on all of us and got straight into the Cabinet, but I congratulate Mr Boscawen for the achievement of being the second in the class of \u201908 to hold a ministerial warrant. It is also fantastic to see Heather Roy in the Chamber. I know that she was a passionate Minister and she was very keen on driving this legislation through the House. She also took her role as Associate Minister of Defence very seriously and as the Opposition\u2019s associate defence spokesperson I enjoyed some of the exchanges we had and some of the opportunities we had to meet on some of the bases. I know that she was very well respected in the Territorial Force and in the wider forces for the role that she played. So it is great to see her here; she is not a spare wheel by any stretch of the imagination and certainly not a retread. It is great to see her in the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill is good, solid, technical legislation that will make all New Zealanders better off. Probably everybody at some point in time has to purchase a vehicle, whether it be a new vehicle or a second-hand vehicle, through a licensed trader or just casually, often through TradeMe these days. It is something that most people do, so to know that the rules and the protections around that activity are being tightened up in this way will be important for everybody. Although it will probably sail under the radar, I think that everybody will appreciate the changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EMembers have been reflecting on their first vehicle purchase. Mine was a 1979 Honda Civic, so the vehicle was a little younger than I am. Like Mr Hipkins, I am rapidly approaching my 32nd birthday. I went for a vehicle slightly younger than I was, but I have to say that I learnt a lot about doing bodywork on a vehicle with that car, because it was an absolute rust magnet. How it managed to pass warrants of fitness each time I am not quite sure, but I learnt a lot about how to deal with rust, how to reattach the exhaust pipe, and all that sort of thing, just to make sure it passed the warrant of fitness test each time. If I had had to display any details about that car when I sold it, I think I would have been in a bit of trouble. Nobody would have wanted to purchase it, but that was probably right because it was not too flash by the time I got rid of it. I traded it in, and I really hope that the person who took it off my hands crushed it immediately. It would have been quite easy to crush\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a307cec07ec4073a909776c8ec711aa\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Judith Collins knows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9b6c24960044a78981ce6833ec875e1\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Judith Collins would have known how to do it. It would have been quite an easy job; there was not a heck of a lot of metal left in it. It was all bogged by the time I had finished with it. Then I was able to get something that was a little bit better. Clearly, if the kinds of protections for consumers in this bill had been around when I got rid of that car, I would have found it very difficult to sell in that environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe bill amends the Motor Vehicle Sales Act 2003, which was designed to protect consumers in relation to motor vehicle sales. It is not the most stunning legislation and it will not make the headlines, but people will find it important to know that they have those protections in place. The Commerce Committee noted that it was important to distinguish between Internet advertisements that offer the ability to enter into a contract to buy a vehicle, i.e. a more formal purchasing contract, and the online advertisements that are effectively classified advertisements of the TradeMe style, which is so popular these days. That is a very important distinction to make. We support that distinction. We do not want to make a casual car sale too onerous, with too many hoops, for the person trying to sell a car. That is a good recommendation coming back from the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI go back to the issue of crushing, and the removal of the requirement for transactions between traders and wreckers to display a consumer information notice. Maybe that is what happened to my 1979 Honda Civic. The purpose here is to display information to consumers; it is not necessary for trader-to-trader or trader-to-wrecker transactions. Again, this provision removes unnecessary compliance costs and makes life easier for traders working in this environment. It is really good to see that the bill increases the financial limit on the jurisdiction of the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal from $50,000 to $100,000. Again, this is an area where I have a little experience\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df05e8a78c30438788a43546e7b8b88f\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Aaron Gilmore?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022678be8bafbee4ed39026669e9e38b5eb\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have the kind of experience that members might expect from Aaron Gilmore, as I did not invent the process, nor did I invent the car, and I certainly did not lecture in the field, but I say to Ms Mackey that I will come back to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI have been on the receiving end of what I thought was a pretty dodgy transaction from a motor vehicle trader, and we ended up in the disputes tribunal. Luckily my dispute involved a figure small enough to go to the disputes tribunal. I know that there are plenty of people who would prefer to take that option rather than the more formal and complex option of going through the courts to resolve a dispute that would easily fit into this $100,000 realm, so it is great to see that extension. It will make things a lot easier for people who feel as though they have been hard done by. It means that both the trader and the consumer can get a reasonable outcome that determines where the responsibility lay. That is good news for both parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis legislation is an improvement on the Motor Vehicle Sales Act 2003. The Act came into force in December 2003 and introduced a new regime for motor vehicle traders, which served to make traders more accountable and offered more flexibility to participate in the industry. New information disclosure requirements for used motor vehicles were introduced back then and the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal was established. It was good legislation that was introduced in response to the needs at the time, and it is great to see this process, which was started, of course, by a Labour Government, finally progressing under this Government. It has taken a bit of time for the Government to get around to it, but it is good to see it progressing now under urgency in a way that will see it concluded in due course. Perhaps it will not be long before we run out of Labour bills and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022406e32331c594561ae884415e28903f2\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: Then we\u2019d have another Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4dd7f34a2dc4103a66cfeffeec81ced\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, by that stage there would probably be another Labour Government, and good legislation that protects consumers\u2019 rights will be back in play and progression on that work will be under way. This bill is good legislation, and I think consumers around New Zealand will be very pleased to see it pass through the House. It has been a pleasure to speak on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u002224c564b9de764bd098564f64302bed06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224c564b9de764bd098564f64302bed06\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am so pleased to see that Jo Goodhew is looking forward to my speech. Her expression of joy makes me want to speak for 10 minutes instead of 5. I did not realise how much National members wanted to hear from me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI was in my office listening to the debate on the Motor Vehicles Sales Amendment Bill and I felt I needed to come down to the Chamber for Minister\u2019s Boscawen\u2019s first piece of legislation. Like other members, I congratulate the Minister on his appointment. But I was a little bit disappointed. When Mr Boscawen was on the backbench he was a lion on many issues, and here he is, the Minister of Consumer Affairs with his first piece of legislation. He has been released on the Chamber. He can say what he wants. He has the power in his hands. What does he do? Nothing. He has been muzzled. He has been curtailed. It is incredibly disappointing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThis bill deals with motor vehicle sales. Motor vehicles produce emissions. Emissions cause climate change. Climate change has resulted in an emissions trading scheme. Mr Boscawen feels very strongly about the emissions trading scheme and about emissions that come from motor vehicles, and this bill was an opportunity for the Minister to take a call. Finally he is in a position to do something about it, but he has not. That is a bit disappointing, but the Committee stage is not over yet, so we do look forward to the Minister taking a call in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThis bill is another piece of legislation that started under the previous Labour Government, as many other pieces of Government legislation have. I wonder when we will stop passing Labour legislation. But if we are going to have a National Government, then I prefer it to be one that passes Labour legislation. So I will not complain about that too much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThis bill is very important. Consumer protection is one of the critical roles of this Parliament, and a vehicle purchase is one of the biggest purchases that New Zealand families will make. I am a case in point as to why we need consumer protection legislation. Everyone has been talking about their first cars. Mine was black and it did not have a cup holder, and that is about all I can tell members about it. My current car is white and it does have a cup holder. Ergo, by the very complex Moana Mackey vehicle-rating system, my current car is better than my previous car. It has a cup holder and my previous car did not. I am one of those people who do not know what to look for. Mr Chair, you do not need to regard me in such a disappointed fashion. I am being honest. I know nothing about cars, except that they are useful and I have to have one, and a cup holder is incredibly important to me personally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThere are other people who may be too ashamed to admit that they did not know the bit of the car that Mr Robertson talked about\u2014the bit that rusted through. I had never heard of it. I did not even know it existed until today. I thank Mr Gary Bates from Gary Bates LMVD in Gisborne, who was incredibly helpful to me when I had to purchase a car. He explained to me that there were probably other functions and attributes of a car beyond the cup holder that I should probably be asking about. When he asked me what I wanted I said \u201CMy mother said it has to be white or silver, because I drive a lot, so visibility is important, and it has to have a cup holder. And that is pretty much it.\u201D So he went through the process with me, and this is an example of why consumer protection law is very important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EA car is a major purchase, and many, many people know nothing about vehicles or the questions they should be asking or the problems they should be looking out for. We know what happens in private sales. In our electorate offices we see people who have been burnt by these sales because they did not know the questions to ask\u2014that protection is not in place. That is why it is so important for people to go through licensed dealers, who can make sure that they are getting what they think they are getting and that they are getting value for money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI have to say that this is one of these bills that I feel if a Labour Government was passing it, then we would be told that we were being too nanny State, that too many rules were in place, and that people should be able to buy a dog of car if they want to. We would be told it is their right as free individuals of this country, that the free market will provide, and the invisible hand of the market will make sure that that the car goes properly. That is not the reality, and there are people out there who will take advantage of ignorance. People are very busy. The often do not have time to do all the things they should and look up all the things they need to know. They do not have time to make sure that they are prepared when they are buying something as important as a car, and that is why it is important to have these protections in place. It is also very pleasing to see the role of the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal beefed up, because tribunals are a much easier way of dealing with things. If we can keep things out of the courts as much as possible it is absolutely desirable\u2014and I say happy birthday to Aaron Gilmore\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 161 in the name of the Hon John Boscawen to Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ee9950af79e84e5cbebfcd46a2819a26\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002233555f36e3fe47f8935f4fe5b0bf1237\u0022\u003ESchedule\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000288\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 161 in the name of the Hon John Boscawen to the schedule be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000289\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to. \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000290\u0022\u003ESchedule as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f2e9d68b4b9749d8a63c5c3080340b18\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u00220bffbf8b4b914441830ee53d696ba47a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220bffbf8b4b914441830ee53d696ba47a\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great pleasure to stand again and speak on the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill. I have thought about whether the title is a good title, and I think it is a reasonably accurate reflection of what the bill contains. It is clearly a bill that is designed to amend the existing Motor Vehicle Sales Act, and, generally speaking, the amendments, although positive, are not life-shattering or anything like that. They are all relatively small amendments, so I do not think the bill warrants a grander title than the one it has\u2014the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EAs I said, the changes are positive and they follow what has been a reasonable process. The changes are primarily around the renewal of annual registration for motor vehicle traders. There is a very good amendment that closes a loophole that prevented the automatic banning of traders whose registration has lapsed. That is positive. It is not huge in the grand scheme of life, but it is a very positive change. There is the requirement in terms of the consumer information notice, which we have discussed and which my colleague Mr Hipkins outlined so well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe legislation removes car market operators from the definition of motor vehicle trader. There is the removal of the requirement to display the consumer information notice for transactions between traders or between traders and wreckers, and, of course, the bill increases the jurisdiction of the Motor Vehicles Disputes Tribunal, and there is the ability for the tribunal to publicise its decisions. So there are a number of good, solid amendments to the Act; probably the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill as a title reflects pretty accurately what it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThere was a process around that bill, which my colleague the Hon Lianne Dalziel outlined. Of course, the Motor Vehicle Sales Act was good legislation brought in by the previous Labour Government. It put in place things like the disputes tribunal, and it required good, solid consumer information and registration of motor vehicle traders. It was good legislation with pretty chunky requirements. As others have said, motor vehicles are very important in New Zealand life, and for many the most significant purchase they are likely to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EIn the legislative process there was an automatic requirement of a 2-year review, there was a discussion process, and 12 areas were identified, and they carried through into this bill, mainly. As my colleague the Hon Lianne Dalziel said, the bill was considered by the Commerce Committee\u2014a committee that she does an extremely good job of chairing; we are all very proud of the Hon Lianne Dalziel and the work that she does. She is extremely well qualified for that role, with a very incisive mind and a good ability, I think, to deal with the issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe process is reflective of what the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill is called. I thought about whether we could call it something else that would be better than that. Although it is a very accurate reflection of both the process and what is contained in it and its relative importance, it occurred to me that we could call this bill the \u201CNot the Most Important Issue Facing the Country Today Bill\u201D. I think that is a very important point. As we are debating this bill under urgency\u2014a nice, solid bill, as we have all identified\u2014out there people are struggling. They are struggling to make ends meet. Unemployment is at a very high level. There is no approach to bring greater jobs or skills into our economy. So calling the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill the \u201CNot the Most Important Issue Facing the Country Today Bill\u201D would have been more accurate and reflective of what is going on in the wider community. As I say, people are struggling to make ends meet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003ETo link that issue to the motor vehicle area, I noticed when my colleague Chris Hipkins, a very fine member of Parliament, gave his first reading speech he talked about the implications of the recession on the motor vehicle industry, and the job losses in that particular industry. He noted that a survey carried out by the Motor Trade Association in January showed that over 200 people in the motor vehicle industry had lost their jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022345a625e37c64631b3f1c178d684905e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022345a625e37c64631b3f1c178d684905e\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson. Once again it is great to have your enthusiastic support for giving me the call. I will pick up where my colleague Carol Beaumont left off on some potential alternative titles for the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill. Obviously that title is one option, because the bill amends the Motor Vehicle Sales Act, so that would be traditional.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236e35c5aaa2a4ce38c5dabaead6c9847\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not very original.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7570aa0a91446a487c65b3528920783\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is not terribly creative, and I think it is important that in this Committee we try to make sure that our laws are contemporary, that they stay in touch with what is happening in the world, and that they are relevant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOne title that I considered was the \u201CMotor Vehicle Sales (ACT Party Shuffling the Deckchairs on the Titanic) Bill\u201D. That is one way of looking at it. Mr Boscawen has found himself in the chair, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5f9c055d4df4167bd04b2e4bc003aa3\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: How many knives could they melt down from a car to put into Heather Roy\u2019s back?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274656abad7004de2ba28647a8f1f4f9f\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Mallard has a suggestion, which is interesting coming from him, as he has just re-entered the Chamber after having been out of it for some time. Mr Mallard might want to reflect further on that. The ACT Party has obviously reshuffled the deck, and Mr Boscawen has found himself in the chair. He is obviously concerned about consumers\u2014it is in the name of the party\u2014so he is concerned about those who buy and sell motor vehicles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3d7a3a9cc6b449a9a783841ac1f37c0\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: ACT\u2014consumers and taxpayers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287aa1c73e5df4fd8a85394c1d5fafee2\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228515ea82f648414eb0ce91726a144792\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Surely you can do something\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225763eb57336543e8a4d1a4d5d037baeb\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, we will come back to that soon. But the \u201CMotor Vehicle Sales (ACT Party Shuffling the Deckchairs on the Titanic) Bill\u201D is one alternative title that we have thought of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI actually think Ms Beaumont was on to a particularly good point around alternative titles, given that we are yet again here in urgency to debate the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill, which has been taken through most of its stages under urgency. Perhaps the \u201CMotor Vehicle Sales (Go, Stop, Go, Stop, Go) Amendment Bill\u201D might have been a more appropriate title, because it is hard to understand why a bill that was brought in by the previous Labour Government and was wending its way through its processes\u2014and that National occasionally believes is an urgent bill\u2014occasionally merits the title of urgency, and then stops for a long period of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220b1a4bb9e31411693cb5d01d63706b2\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Lada-Ferrari.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238be025b72da45e4a1d5043b83fb6a66\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, perhaps it is going from being a Ferrari of a bill to a Lada of a bill; we are not getting much in between that from this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill is the title that the Government has come up with. It is probably a fair enough title. Mr Boscawen has been strangely silent during the Committee stage of this debate; he made an early contribution, although signs of life have been rare since then. But I hope that we will hear from him again in the further stages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221260ee286a364361b0956dadddc42bfe\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Heather Roy would have spoken on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254d5fb3fd98641c9815fa1e619c961bf\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Heather Roy has had a lot of references made to her in this Committee stage. She took the consumer affairs role seriously, and I am sure she would have taken several calls, in fact, and answered Mr Hipkins\u2019 very useful questions that were raised earlier in the Committee stage about the consumer information notices. I think, on balance, the Labour Party can support this title. We perhaps would have preferred something that was more creative. We could have injected other words into the title, like \u201Clamington\u201D, for instance\u2014that is one potential word that could have found its way into the title\u2014but I think on balance we will be able to support the title being the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill. However, we would obviously welcome a contribution from the Minister in the chair to this particular part of the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 161 in the name of the Hon John Boscawen to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EClause 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002270684003292e4feca555473e9801ffa5\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022 data-id=\u00229ff4ac79248a4f3295a7049ad0b542ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ff4ac79248a4f3295a7049ad0b542ec\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BOSCAWEN (Minister of Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill be now read a third time. The bill introduces changes to the Motor Vehicle Sales Act to provide for its more effective operation and to ensure that consumers\u2019 interests continue to be protected in relation to motor vehicle sales. It ensures that consumers have access to good information that allows them to make informed purchasing decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EThe Motor Vehicle Sales Act came into force in December 2003. It introduced a new registration regime for motor vehicle traders that served to make traders more accountable. It also offered more flexibility to participate in the industry, introduced new information disclosure requirements for used motor vehicles, and established the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal, which offered consumers a forum in which complaints against traders could be heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EThe bill is the result of a review of the operation of the Motor Vehicle Sales Act conducted by the Ministry of Consumer Affairs. I endorse the review of legislation 2 to 3 years after enactment. This allows assessment as to whether legislation is bedding in as intended, and it provides for any operational problems to be addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EI thank the members of the Commerce Committee for their consideration of this bill. I also thank those who made submissions on the bill to the select committee and throughout the initial review of the operation of the Motor Vehicle Sales Act. Many of the issues raised in those submissions have been addressed in this bill. I also thank the previous Minister of Consumer Affairs, officials from the Ministry of Consumer Affairs, and parliamentary counsel for their work on the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EAs an ACT Minister in the National-led Government I am pleased that this bill not only includes benefits for consumers who buy motor vehicles but also removes some compliance costs and red tape for motor vehicle traders, private sellers of motor vehicles, and motor vehicle buyers. The bill tidies up the processes related to motor vehicle trader registration renewal and the registration process for overseas directors. It removes the requirements for a consumer information notice if selling a car privately at a car market, and also in sales made between motor vehicle traders and motor vehicle traders and wreckers. Car market operators, those offering premises for an Internet site or for vehicle sales but not actually selling vehicles themselves, will no longer be required to register as motor vehicle traders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EA key function of the Motor Vehicle Sales Act is to protect consumer interests, and I am pleased to highlight to the House that the bill raises the limit to which the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal may hear claims. It has been increased from $50,000 to $100,000. This will allow better access to the tribunal and will also future-proof the limit. The bill also includes some amendments to allow for the more efficient functioning of the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal, and it provides for all decisions of the tribunal to be published, which will provide more transparency and allow traders and consumers alike to learn how best to adjudicate disputes between themselves and resolve them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EIn terms of positive outcomes for both consumers and motor vehicle traders, the success of the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal highlights how well these kinds of dispute resolution entities work in providing low-cost, efficient, and fair outcomes for all New Zealanders. I encourage consumers to take advantage of their existence if in a dispute about a motor vehicle and a trader. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003EThe changes I have outlined are designed to strengthen the operation of the Motor Vehicle Sales Act. They are designed to improve consumer outcomes when purchasing motor vehicles, and to remove unnecessary regulatory requirements and the associated compliance costs. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1542fa9c1ea4a38a7e442c3313d74af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1542fa9c1ea4a38a7e442c3313d74af\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure as Labour\u2019s consumer affairs spokesperson to speak on the third reading of the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill. As Labour members have noted previously, we support this bill. It has a number of very sensible amendments. It is not a bill that will set the world on fire, or, indeed, a bill that it is necessary to deal with under urgency but it is a good solid piece of work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI want to talk first about why legislation in the consumer affairs area is important. This bill is part of our consumer legislation. Motor vehicles are significant items for many New Zealanders. For the many New Zealanders who can no longer afford to buy houses\u2014and that is an increasing number of New Zealanders\u2014a motor vehicle may well be the biggest single purchase they make. Consumer legislation on motor vehicle sales is important. The motor vehicle industry employs a number of people. We have seen many people in that industry lose their jobs as a result of the recession. In tough economic times New Zealanders are reliant on cars. In most places in New Zealand people are reliant on cars because they do not have an alternative; public transport is not the way in which people get to work. They require a car to get around, to get to work, to take the kids to school, or whatever, so a car is often not an optional purchase for New Zealanders. I think we would all accept that. Although some of us are probably more committed to changing that situation and having alternatives, the reality is that buying a car is very significant. I just want to put this in context. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill deals with an issue that is important to us\u2014that is, the sale of motor vehicles. As has been outlined, this legislation was brought in by the previous Labour Government. The Motor Vehicle Sales Act, which was significant legislation, came into effect in December 2003 and provided for some very important things. It provided for the registration of motor vehicle traders. Used-car salesmen are not seen as the most honest and reliable people in the world; I cannot remember whether politicians are ranked above or below them at the moment. There was a need to tighten up that industry and so another part of the legislation set up the disputes tribunal so that people had somewhere to go to deal with any disputes they might have. I have previously noted that the disputes tribunal seems to be working very effectively. It also legislated around the issue of consumer information\u2014the sorts of things one might expect to know when one is purchasing a vehicle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThat legislation was set up in December 2003 with a requirement that the Act be reviewed after 2 years in operation. I think that is important, especially in an area like consumer law, where things change. Even in 2003, who would have thought that the amount of buying and selling that takes place in the online trading area would be the case? The fact is that consumer law is an area that we need to review fairly regularly. That process led to a review, and 12 areas in the Motor Vehicle Sales Act were identified as possibly needing amendment. A discussion document went out, a number of people commented on it, and that fed into a process whereby a bill was put before the House. That bill was introduced in May 2009\u2014so it has not had a speedy track through the House since that time. The bill was referred to the Commerce Committee and I am pleased to note that my colleague the Hon Lianne Dalziel is the chair of that committee and provides very good leadership in it. It was important that this bill went to that committee. It has had good, thorough scrutiny, and by all accounts it has had good assistance from officials. The bill was reported back in December 2009. The second reading occurred in June 2010. So after a slow start, we are dealing with the Committee stage and the third reading under urgency. It is a little unclear to me what is so urgent about the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill that warrants us being here in urgency to deal with it. That is not to say that the amendments are not useful and helpful amendments, but it does seem a little strange, given the pressing issues facing New Zealand at the moment\u2014such as high unemployment, lack of an economic plan, and New Zealanders struggling to make ends meet\u2014that we are dealing under urgency with what are, effectively, fairly minor changes to the Motor Vehicle Sales Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EJust what are those amendments? As has been outlined, the amendments include changes to the process whereby motor vehicle traders renew their annual registration. This change was partly driven by a desire to reduce compliance costs on traders. One change that is really important, and which should be valued by all of us, is the closing of a loophole that prevents the automatic banning of traders whose registration has lapsed following conviction under this Act. That is important. It is what should happen and it has been fixed up by this bill. The bill also deals with a set of changes around consumer information notices, primarily around the use of those notices in car markets. It essentially recognises the fact that people operating a car market are not, by definition, motor vehicle traders themselves. They provide a space where people buy and sell cars. It also removes the requirement for transactions between traders, or traders and wreckers, to display a consumer information notice. That is probably OK. We would expect that those people would be aware of their rights and aware of the information they need to decide on whether to purchase a motor vehicle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe third area is around the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal, and the bill increases the financial limit for claims it hears from $50,000 to $100,000. I have already said that we think the disputes tribunal appears to work well, that it is effective in its decision making, that it is dealing with an increasing number of cases, and that it draws to our attention matters that are of interest or, indeed, matters for further law change. So that is all positive. We have no issue with extending the financial limit for claims from $50,000 to $100,000, but it would be fair to say that this change will not affect most New Zealanders. Most New Zealanders are not in the market for a vehicle that is worth more than $50,000; we have to accept that. In tough economic times people are holding on to their old vehicles, and they are looking at downsizing, often, especially with fuel prices being what they are and little or no wage increases. That provision is not exactly something that will affect the majority of struggling New Zealanders, but certainly Labour does not have a problem with it being in the bill. Again, I say that it is not the key issue facing this Parliament at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI want to put this bill into the context of consumer affairs generally. We could judge this bill in light of a framework. I mentioned previously to the new Minister of Consumer Affairs that we are looking at a framework around consumer affairs, and I seek to meet him to discuss this. Firstly, it would look at things like improving consumer knowledge and protection, so we could say that to a degree this bill is part of that. Secondly, it needs to take account of the needs of vulnerable consumers. I am not sure that this bill touches particularly on that area, although the Motor Vehicle Sales Act is important because, as I said, cars are one of the biggest single items that consumers may purchase. The Government has failed to show much leadership in the area of vulnerable consumers. The fact that National and ACT MPs voted against the loan shark legislation not long ago shows a lack of interest in the interests of vulnerable consumers. I know that the Hon John Boscawen has a concern about vulnerable consumers, and I will be seeing whether he wants to change tack on that issue. As for targeting exploitation, I think we need to look at what we are doing in the area of the motor vehicle market, at the bottom end if you like. I identified one part of Auckland where it is particularly an issue, and that is \u014Ct\u0101huhu. Again, this bill in itself is not in that space, but there is enforcement work, particularly, that could help. Updating consumer law is clearly part of our framework, and we see this sits within the bill. It takes account of changed circumstances, and that is important. Greater regulation is something we will probably debate, as is increasing consumer awareness. I will end there. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u00229f406478fbc942cd99be6991960d97ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f406478fbc942cd99be6991960d97ec\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a short call on the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill. Firstly, I acknowledge the previous Minister of Consumer Affairs, Heather Roy, for the work that she did\u2014not just in this portfolio of consumer affairs, but also as Associate Minister of Defence and Associate Minister of Education. I know that she was a strong advocate for those portfolios. I also acknowledge my colleague and friend Mr Boscawen, who has just left the Chamber, for his work on this bill as a member of the Commerce Committee. He is now the Minister of Consumer Affairs and has moved the bill\u2019s third reading. He is a hard-working MP and will be a very good addition to the ministry of this Government and future National Governments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the members of the Commerce Committee. I thought we worked well as a committee. The committee was well chaired, of course. I also acknowledge the submitters who put forward the very few submissions that were heard orally, and the officials for the work that they did in bringing this bill through the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe Minister has already alluded to the main components of the bill, but I say this bill promotes and protects consumer interests. In the tough times that we have been through, in the recession, consumer protection legislation is particularly important, and a number of speakers have alluded to that. The issue is about creating an environment of confidence and choice\u2014choice in that consumers want to rely on the information produced by the vendors of motor vehicles, and choice in that that they can make their decisions by relying on that information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThis bill is about the reform of regulation. This National Government is cutting red tape, reducing compliance costs, and pushing through\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7adfdcdedbd4669ba9c82b97d8e1649\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: This was a Labour bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022803134e94620496f9bce997f575c4f7a\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA\u003C/span\u003E: No, this is actually a National bill, which has been moved by an ACT member. The bill is about cutting red tape, and the previous Labour Government had no idea about how to do that. One of the policy reform areas is to cut red tape in order to improve the long-term performance of the economy, lift our living standards, and create jobs. This bill is part of a series of reforms that we have brought to the House. It is being considered under urgency. National is a Government of action. This bill is part of that reform, and I commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce119020b7b2465fbd6a91e03508ae37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce119020b7b2465fbd6a91e03508ae37\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak in the third reading of the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill. This bill has had quite a long history, in terms of its gestation and its traverse through the House, and I want to comment on all of those points, as we did in the Committee stage. First, I want to again comment on the history of the bill and how we have arrived at this position today. I think it is important that we have very good regulatory processes in order to assess the operation of a regulatory framework after it has been in place for a certain period of time. The Motor Vehicle Sales Act 2003, which this bill amends, had within it a review after 2 years. There are those who would consider a 2-year review as too short and there are those who would consider a 10-year review as too long. I am probably of the view that the 2-year review is too short. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EAlthough I think this process was robust, in that it involved the review that had a number of recommendations coming out of it, it then led to the development of a discussion paper that proposed amendments to the Motor Vehicle Sales Act. There were 18 submissions on the discussion paper, and there was an open forum with industry and consumer representative organisations. It engaged with the major stakeholders that one would expect to see involved, such as the Motor Trade Association, the Independent Motor Vehicle Dealers Association, the Motor Industry Association, the New Zealand Automobile Association, and Consumer New Zealand, amongst many others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI think the importance of the process was that those particular major stakeholders were able to engage quite fully in the process. If it was a 2-year review, after legislation that had come into force in 2003, the discussion document came out in 2007, and the legislation was introduced in 2009, I am starting to get a picture of things having probably moved on during the period. I personally think that 2 years is too short. Just for future reference\u2014and we all learn as we go along in this particular role\u2014I think that a review of this nature should have been 5 years, unless there were circumstances that required the urgent attention of the Government that would bring it forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWe also need to consider truncating the process, because I think we have doubled up here. There were 18 submissions on the discussion paper, and at the Commerce Committee we received eight submissions on the bill and we heard two submissions. Again, one of the concerns I have is that although it is a robust process, and I again place on record our thanks to the Ministry of Consumer Affairs, which gave us very good support when dealing with this bill, it possibly could have been dealt with a lot sooner if we had managed to get the bill before the House a bit sooner than we did. Be that as it may, we got the bill in front of the House last year in about May, we reported it back from the select committee in December last year, and now we are in urgency, finishing off the final reading. It is actually\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8650f2e7d954d37b5278d6ec96d8b8d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I was a member of the select committee way back then. It was when Chris Carter was our education spokesperson, I think. I sat on the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249e3aa010085425090647ad1e4e91e60\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not think so, because it was my select committee and I do not think I have ever had the pleasure of having Trevor Mallard on my select committee. I kind of hope that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215ef24f8201c4e7d9c4cb7b6155f5f6d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It never happens?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e7171a49d7f4082b76b09c7e955e620\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014it stays that way. Oh, it is nothing personal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec8ef8b60b8246f2b5ea49ebe3d7a18e\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Poor Trevor!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022980599bbecaa4f96a1370fda43e25e08\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I do not think I could compete with that degree of testosterone, but there we go! We were speaking on the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill, I say to Mr Mallard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4ecd3bf1ca34dd4a15df8d80881c62a\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Right\u2014wrong bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc6c7b47b1aa4ead8c40e6a6ea1c672b\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: I thought we were speaking at cross purposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill was reported back to this House on 14 December last year, but the bill was not read a second time until June this year. I went back and had a quick look at that second reading and it was dealt with under urgency, as well. Now, here we are, completing the final stages of the bill under urgency. I made the point during the Committee stage that although the calendar on the wall says that it is 24 August, it is, in fact, 26 August. Although time may have stood still as far as the urgency motion goes, we are debating this bill now when our select committee should actually be meeting and dealing with other legislation. But here we are in the House dealing with this bill. If this really was a matter of urgency, then it ought to have been dealt with some time sooner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe main issue that I focused on when we were in the Committee stage on this bill was the question of the display of a consumer information notice. I will comment on one of the submissions that we received in the select committee, because I thought it was the most appropriate submission to refer to in respect of e-commerce and the advent of TradeMe into the car market, as it were, through online car market operators. According to the submission, the theory of the current situation, prior to this bill coming in, is that each of the 175,000 motor vehicle auctions on TradeMe in the past year would have had to include a consumer information notice, and TradeMe provides advice to the sellers in the car listing process that they must do that. But, as the submission said, the reality was quite different. It said that the Commerce Commission had advised in 2006 that it would enforce this requirement only against motor vehicle traders, and the Ministry of Consumer Affairs recommended in 2007 that the law be changed to remove this requirement on private sellers. I guess that in the meantime, generally only motor vehicle traders have been displaying the consumer information notices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe point made in the submission\u2014and I guess that this backs up the point that I was trying to make before about the time frame for review and action on those reviews\u2014is that the amendment simply changes the law to catch up with the reality of what people are doing and with what everyone seems to agree makes sense. That is why, when the previous speaker said that our Government did not address red tape and compliance costs, I would make the point that I was the Minister who developed the model of the Regulatory Improvement Bill. Something like this does not need to be separate legislation. This could have been dealt with by way of making amendments under the Regulatory Improvement Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI think that one of the things we need to also contemplate as a Parliament is having a much more open approach towards an omnibus bill or generic legislation that is able to pick up a range of compliance-reducing initiatives that do not always get the priority of the department, the Minister, or the Leader of the House in terms of the process that will be adopted for ensuring that legislation can be updated in a timely fashion. The sequence of events that I have spelt out in terms of the timing of the review, the discussion document, getting it to a bill stage, and getting priority in terms of the House means that something that was identified in 2006\u2014according to this submission from TradeMe\u2014is being fixed in 2010. That, to me, is the fundamental flaw we have in our parliamentary system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThis bill has had to compete against changes to \u201Cthree strikes\u201D legislation and with other things that the Government might think are a priority but most New Zealanders do not. Bills have to compete on that basis. I would certainly recommend that we ensure these things are kept up to date with sensible review periods, and also take an action approach to implementing those changes. I commend the bill to the House in its third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u00226426d8cc722a4e35bf380e3da15da624\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226426d8cc722a4e35bf380e3da15da624\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora koutou, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am pleased to take a call on the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill. It has been interesting to hear, both during the earlier reading and the during the Committee stage earlier today, the extent of the peculiar love-hate relationship we have with motor vehicles in this country. It is probably not unique to us, but it is certainly a characteristic, and it is another reason why this market needs to have some regulation on it and some attention paid to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe lower end of the market has not been characterised by a high level of integrity, I have to say. Clearly, new car sellers, franchise holders, and, for the most part, secondhand-car dealers operate with some degree of integrity, but there is a minority whose reputation probably equates to our reputation as politicians, and it is not a particularly high level of trust that is shown by the public in that market. So it is important that we are seen to apply consumer protection provisions in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EGiven the economic and, apparently, the cultural importance of motor vehicles in New Zealand, I think it is probably unfortunate and a bit odd that this bill has languished for nearly 18 months since its first reading. I was interested in the comments made by the previous speaker, Lianne Dalziel, about the necessity of perhaps looking at a more regular review, a more timely review, of what is quite a significant market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe numbers are interesting. There are over 4 million vehicles currently registered in New Zealand. Looking at the population, we see that that equals roughly one car each, which puts us on the top tier, certainly, in terms of per capita ownership of vehicles. That number is also fairly stable. The number of new vehicles coming on the market more or less balances those that get trashed each year, and it is interesting that we do seem to maintain this very, very high level of vehicle ownership, despite the fact that, clearly, vehicles are a liability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EVehicles are often perceived as being an asset, but they are a liability to own and operate. New vehicle sales hit a peak in 2007\u2014something like 100,000 vehicles were newly registered in that year\u2014and that figure dropped substantially during the recession, down to a low last year of fewer than 70,000-odd vehicles. But that figure is clearly on the way up. There is something like a 15 percent increase in new vehicle sales this year and something like a 43 percent increase in the sale of imported second-hand vehicles, and, again, it reflects the need for some constant attention to regulate and ensure that consumers are getting a good deal in this market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe most popular vehicle segment is mini and small vehicles. But there have been major drops in sales as more people think very hard about the purchasing of large investments like cars, and, of course, the collapse of finance companies also discourages people from getting involved in anything that commits them to debt. It is interesting that the hardest-hit segment of the market is large cars, People are turning away from large sedans and moving more towards the sport utility vehicles in spite the fact that the particular qualities or characteristics of those vehicles really only meet the needs of a relatively small number of people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EAll this information leads us to reflect and to acknowledge that the purchase of a motor vehicle is often a very emotive rather than a wholly rational decision. There may be a degree of rationality about it, but people often buy vehicles on quite an irrational basis. In a market like that, it is important that we have appropriate regulation and, without wishing to sound patronising, that we apply some protection for consumers in an area where they are very easily ripped off and cheated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe age of the New Zealand vehicle fleet is hovering at about 12 years to 13 years, particularly the light vehicle fleet, which is the largest component of the overall fleet. It is about 90 percent of the total. About half of that fleet is made up of used imports\u2014vehicles that have come in as second-hand vehicles. Something like 78 percent of total vehicle kilometres travelled in New Zealand are in the light passenger vehicle category, which indicates that most of the kilometres travelled in New Zealand are travelled in cars and very light commercials. Again, all those figures tell us that the buying and selling of vehicles is a very busy, very complex market, and any steps to better inform and protect consumers in that market place is to be welcomed. There are provisions in this bill that seek to do that. The numbers also point to the need for developing much more coherent and much more appropriate strategies for incentivising customers to make purchases that will meet their needs and reduce the adverse environmental impact of motor vehicle use. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EOver time the Greens have put up a number of propositions aimed at increasing, in particular, fuel efficiency standards across the whole vehicle fleet. We have proposed a system of tradable credits that would give importers absolute discretion in terms of what vehicles they choose to import. But, clearly, that would incentivise a mix that favours the most fuel-efficient vehicles coming into this country, which would not only meet the needs of consumers to the extent that it would reduce the overall running cost to vehicles but also would reduce the significant negative environmental impact of our vehicle use. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe Greens have proposed a \u201Cfeebate\u201D system\u2014that is, a differential in registration fees\u2014to advantage and incentivise the purchase and use of smaller, more fuel-efficient vehicles rather than the larger, less fuel-efficient vehicles. This would give consumers maximum information and maximum choice so that they can reduce their overall cost of ownership of vehicles over time. It is true that this amendment to the Act will provide more consumer protection. The Internet has also been pointed out as a factor. It is not a new phenomenon, but certainly the number of vehicles that are bought and sold through Internet sales and auctions now makes up a significant part of the total. When I checked a few days ago there were something like 32,000 motor vehicles advertised for sale on the web, mostly on TradeMe, and some 25,000 of those were private sales. Again, that points towards the need for ensuring that private and indeed commercial sellers are obliged to give consumers information that is as appropriate, accurate, and honest as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe Greens will be supporting this bill. It enhances the degree of consumer protection. We do regret that much more fundamental, coherent, and broad-based attention is not being paid to how we buy, sell, and incentivise the importing and the purchasing patterns of motor vehicles in New Zealand. We will continue to advocate for an approach that leads us to a more sustainable low-carbon economy, which is the way we need to go. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdd16c2e26524b729dbf64261980208f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdd16c2e26524b729dbf64261980208f\u0022\u003EHEATHER ROY (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on behalf of the ACT Party in the third reading of the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill. It is very pleasing to see support from across the House for this bill. The bill makes a good deal of sense. It came together as the result of the review that was done. A car is a large purchase for most people, but it is most important for consumers that those protections exist. It is also very important, and we should not forget this, that a fair environment exists for sellers. I would like to say that the consultation process from within the motor vehicle industry itself was conducted very well, and I think very fair and reasonable conclusions have been arrived at as a result of that process. In light of that, I would like to compliment the consumer affairs officials who were responsible for conducting that very professionally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI also would like to mention the Commerce Committee. We have heard about the submission process through the Commerce Committee, and the amendments that came forward as a result of that work. That was also done very well. Having been involved in the introduction of this bill in my former capacity, I am pleased to see that we have reached this conclusion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EIt is a little mischievous of Labour to talk about this bill being heard under urgency. Labour, of course, originated this process. The review happened pretty slowly, in some respects. Had Labour been really committed to pushing this through much faster, it could have done so when it was in Government. I have to say that it is very pleasing, as the Minister who introduced this bill to the House, to be able to speak in the third reading and see that it is about to reach its conclusion today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003ESection 163 of the Act required a review within 2 years of the bill\u2019s commencement in 2003, so we are going back quite some way. That review was undertaken by the Ministry of Consumer Affairs, as I have mentioned, and it identified areas where the Act\u2019s operation would benefit from amendment. Some gaps become apparent over time, and those have been dealt with in a rigorous and thorough way as part of the review process. The review report, which was tabled in the House in March 2006, was followed by further consultation on the review\u2019s recommendations. That process has led to the amendments we see before us in this bill today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI am very pleased to see that the bill will remove several unnecessary compliance costs for motor vehicle traders and consumers. The amendment is in line with the Government tackling regulatory obstacles as promoted by both ACT and the National. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe issues in the bill have been pretty much traversed by all members who have spoken on this bill, both at the Committee stage and by those who have preceded me in this third reading. But I will briefly go over those that I see as priorities that will improve things for consumers. The bill removes the requirements for private sellers at car markets to display a consumer information notice. That amendment will reduce risk of confusion between private sellers and buyers as to their responsibilities and rights. I think it makes a good deal of sense. Certainly, it was a compliance that was unnecessary in that particular circumstance and it has very sensibly been removed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe other thing I previously promoted heavily was that the bill offers increased consumer protections, particularly with regard to the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal. The protections offered to consumers here include increasing the financial limit at which consumer claims may be heard by the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal. It has increased from $50,000 to $100,000, and it is a very sensible move. This increase means that the majority of consumers can now have their issues heard in the expert forum that the tribunal offers. This change will also assist in the future-proofing of claims limits, and provide protection to consumers who purchase high-end vehicles. Previously, some of those consumers were not able to take their case, genuine though it might have been, to the disputes tribunal. Currently, regardless of their financial means, consumers can still have difficulty in gaining redress from a specific motor vehicle trader. The increasing of the limit to $100,000 should help in this regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe bill allows the tribunal to award costs for non-attendance of either party to the dispute. This creates the right incentive for both parties to turn up to hearings, which has been something of a problem. Currently, costs can be awarded against the consumer when he or she does not attend, but the amendment bill will enable the ability for costs to also be awarded against the trader, so we have a much more level playing field with the amendment before the House at the moment. For a consumer, considerable compliance costs may be associated with attending a hearing that has to be postponed because of a trader\u2019s non-attendance, so from a purely practical perspective this amendment makes a good deal of sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe bill also closes a loophole where the automatic banning of a trader from future trading as a motor vehicle dealer cannot be applied to a person who is unregistered or has a lapsed registration at the time of his or her conviction or bankruptcy. Currently, such people can continue to trade in motor vehicles until the registrar can take a case to court to ban them, which may take some months. The Motor Vehicle Sales Act is predicated on a fairly light-handed registration regime, and that is as it should be, in my view, and it is supported by enforcement. Effective banning provisions are an important element of this enforcement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EIt gives me a great deal of delight to see the completion of this bill today, and I am very pleased to see that it has cross-party support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdb8c54381f14e8783943a9191773a9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdb8c54381f14e8783943a9191773a9b\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to stand and speak on the third reading of the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill, and especially to follow the previous Minister of Consumer of Affairs, Heather Roy, and hear the details that she was able to give. The purpose of the bill is pretty straightforward: to promote and protect car buyers. That is an honourable goal and is consistent with that of other bills that have gone through the House under urgency, such as the bill to protect the rights of investors by focusing on standards for financial advisers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe bill amends the process for motor vehicle traders to renew their annual registration, and it also extends the range of people banned from car trading. It makes pretty good sense to the M\u0101ori Party that those who stoop to give false registration information, or those who have lapsed registrations, should not be rewarded for that with opportunities to trade. So we are pleased to support this bill all the way through the House and will continue to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EHowever, I have a couple of concerns. The bill promotes and protects car buyers, but unfortunately it has a huge gap, in that it does not protect car drivers from people like Ms Mackey\u2019s mother who feel that the only thing they need is that a car be white and have a cup holder. I think that my son, before he bought his last car, must have been speaking to her mother, because he bought a white one as well. It had more than a cup holder, though. Since then he has spent more money on upgrading his car than he did on buying it. Since he bought it he has lowered it, and he has put mag wheels on it. I recognise the mag wheels, because when one takes the car out on a bright Wellington day one is blinded by all the bling. But the thing that he spent most of his money on was the sound system, and because of the amount of bass one can hear that car coming for miles around. I do not know whether my son was talking to Ms Mackey\u2019s mother when he put all of that into his car, but we really need to be looking for things other than whether cars make the right sound and are the right colour\u2014those sorts of things. Maybe we need to think about making some amendments to the bill to make sure that car buyers buy a car and not a sound system on mag wheels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ef9a6eec919410cbc655aea5703b88f\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Support New Zealand music, not overseas cars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022113c3c00f2754b5ca9bdba29fe859edb\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE\u003C/span\u003E: It is a bit late now; next time! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EI also cannot leave this debate without making the connection to some of the other policy priorities that have been impacting on Parliament during this last week. The first is to raise public awareness of young drivers\u2019 crash risk. The statistics for the years 2006 to 2008 show that of all the drivers involved in fatal crashes, the 20 to 24-year-old and the 25 to 29-year-old age groups were the most likely to be affected by alcohol/drugs. To that end we support the need to improve the road safety education available to young people and to increase access to it. Somewhere, hopefully, we will be able to deal with that issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party supports this bill. We support the decision for tribunal findings to be made available on the Internet, and the focus on greater transparency and accountability. The issue is about providing a better deal for consumers and keeping the traders honest. This bill will help consumers in disputes that relate to misrepresentation about the condition of vehicles for sale, and it will provide some protection from unsafe traders. We are particularly aware of the requirement for traders to display a consumer information notice on vehicles. That is a positive move, and it will add to the general safety and protection of the New Zealand consumer. We congratulate the previous Minister of Consumer Affairs and the current Minister on their initiatives in that regard. We are supportive of the bill and its consumer focus, and make the point that of course there are many other initiatives that we must promote and uphold as part of any approach to keeping New Zealanders safe on the road.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u00227ea51f81d4ee47e4883ea4e2eecc5da5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ea51f81d4ee47e4883ea4e2eecc5da5\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to take a call on the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill this morning. I firstly acknowledge the previous Minister of Consumer Affairs, Heather Roy, for her commitment to getting this bill through the House and her commitment to the consumer affairs portfolio. I also thank her and the officials for the support and guidance they gave the Commerce Committee, which helped the legislation get to its third reading in the House today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe Motor Vehicle Sales Act promotes and protects consumer interests. It is obvious that all members agree with the purpose of this bill, which is to protect consumer interests, especially consumers who are more vulnerable. We want to create an environment of confidence and informed choice. This bill is aligned with the National-led Government\u2019s efforts to reform regulations, cut red tape, and reduce compliance costs. It is also obvious from the debate that the House agrees with what the National-led Government is trying to do currently in those areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EI want to touch quickly on just a couple of things in the bill, because there already has been a long debate on the bill this morning. Some of the changes include amending the process for traders renewing their annual registration. These amendments reduce the compliance costs associated with traders\u2019 making annual statutory declarations as part of registration renewal. The legislation also closes a loophole preventing the automatic banning of traders whose registration has lapsed but who are subsequently convicted under the Act for misconduct while registered. It removes the requirement for private sellers at car markets to display a consumer information notice. It eliminates unnecessary compliance costs by removing the requirement for transactions between traders, or between traders and wreckers, to include display of a consumer information notice. It increases the financial limit at which cases may be heard by the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal from $50,000 to $100,000. And it allows the tribunal to award costs for non-attendance of either party to the dispute, and allows the tribunal to publish its decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EI commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea9e30d7331e4b3ca2ba4a2e3d69b596\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea9e30d7331e4b3ca2ba4a2e3d69b596\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I am very happy to take a call in the final reading of the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill. I want to respond initially to some of the comments Rahui Katene made. I can say only that I hope the Minister of Police was not listening to the description of her son\u2019s car, because it could end up being crushed, given the description she just gave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256bde8894c5d453e9b7921be192d1a76\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re allowed a bit of sound, mate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022559e8364f3c645a1bc7aa17e5c435c61\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I can just see David Bennett driving down the streets of Hamilton with his boom box on the back of his car. I want to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296950b8844e54369b96c9190d36cdad8\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s compulsory with your warrant of fitness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215bec30c31f24f30b76a5628b604d65d\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Apparently it is compulsory in Hamilton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223000336c1fef4b35b90943a167a6c3d6\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Along with the dice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287e67c6fd52546cea44cb5ad089ebf01\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Along with the fluffy dice, that is right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229af20561b18640c280991a1d7968ce59\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Only one, though. You are not allowed two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226651f2c6be2f4f46ae95ea1397ba5c31\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Only one? That is a very revealing comment. I want to acknowledge once again the previous Minister of Consumer Affairs, Heather Roy. I am glad she took a call in this final reading, because it is nice to hear somebody on the Government side speak with some knowledge about what the bill actually is and what it does. I was pretty disappointed during the Committee stage that not a single Government member spoke after Mr Boscawen spoke first in the Committee stage. Not a single Government member spoke. Government members did not respond to any of the questions or issues raised by the Opposition. As a result, many of those questions still remain unanswered. In fact, the only knowledgable speech we got from that side was from the previous Minister, who spoke with some knowledge of the bill. Mr Boscawen departed not a jot from the notes his officials provided to him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221424fe2bd654c19be2cf8b3aa1aba59\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I think that Heather wrote that speech. It was actually quite a good speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbaf70087a974f858cc6c08b2f5b4a38\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Heather Roy may well have written the speech that John Boscawen then had the opportunity to deliver. He certainly did not demonstrate that he had any knowledge of the legislation we were debating. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EDespite the lack of participation from Government members, or perhaps because of it, the Committee stage was quite interesting and lively. We heard from Moana Mackey about her car selection criteria, which tend to involve the number of cup holders that it has. She did not mention, although she mentioned to me afterwards, the fact that in selecting her car she did not bother to check whether it had a petrol light. In fact, she discovered the hard way that the car did not have a petrol light, because it ran out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWe heard from Grant Robertson about the crossbar rusting issue that he had with his first vehicle that he purchased in Invercargill, and about some of the issues he encountered there in respect of change of ownership involving the motor vehicle dealer that he purchased it from. I talked about the five cars I have owned in my period of driving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c029541534c74def8d2a81de5abfd80b\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c5d41013520147f49a73d38dd738579c\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d6856a59abbd40e39ae5537a5bc1e917\u0022\u003EEconomic Recovery\u2014Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u002257f9b7bec02843448f038f2e713448c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257f9b7bec02843448f038f2e713448c0\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he received on the nature of New Zealand\u2019s economic recovery?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002272e21c4df0d94ee1a21a9d07f30522e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272e21c4df0d94ee1a21a9d07f30522e8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The New Zealand economy is growing again. Real GDP grew by 1.5 percent in the 6 months to March 2010, and annual growth could reach 3 percent this year. However, it has become clear over recent months that the recovery is patchy, due to the uncertain global environment and because New Zealanders are being careful with their spending and paying down debt from a large splurge in spending from 2007 onwards. As a result, because the recovery is not being led by an increase in domestic spending in the housing market, it will need to be led by growth in the export sector, which was severely damaged under the last Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dddc29f2c8a49c28a8a8d9f4dbfeb92\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: What are the benefits to the economy of an export-led recovery?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aba3a691c6f24f08991d0edafe127fb1\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It is vital that we rebalance our economy towards growth from the export sector. Too much of our growth over the last 4 or 5 years has come from people borrowing too much, speculating in the housing market, and that being reinforced by a splurge in Government spending. As a lot of Kiwis have found out, that is not a recipe for sustainable jobs, so an export-led recovery is required to rebalance the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f68d89139f94ec695aacb0310d2ddb0\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any recent indicators of export performance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fd8e6fb2b5b419e9b88d1bfd0ec7704\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The early signs are that the economy is rebalancing. First, it is evident that New Zealanders are being careful with their consumption and that they are not rushing back to the housing market, either. On the other hand, higher export prices have driven a 6 percent jump in the terms of trade in the March 2010 quarter, which is the largest quarterly rise since 1976. The seasonally adjusted trade balance for the June 2010 quarter was a surplus of $389 million, which is the second surplus in a row and is the first time that that has happened since December 2001. Although commodity prices have slipped back slightly in June, they remain 47 percent higher than a year ago and near the record highs they hit in March this year. The indicators for export-led growth are promising.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a97dc4cd20b4467ad2ad82b1c055d2e\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: What aspect of the Prime Minister\u2019s figures that showed that the wage gap with Australia had increased by $23 caused him to spend the last 3 weeks remassaging statistics to come up with something even more far-fetched?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a058ceb35014ebea11f103606b63960\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The figures we have been using are based on the statistics that are used to calculate national superannuation. So, if the previous Government was deceiving superannuitants for 9 years, I would be very surprised. There is general agreement on the wage numbers that are used as the basis for national superannuation; those are the numbers we have been using. I invite the Opposition to make the case that they are wrong, because 600,000 older New Zealanders would be keen to hear about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261975a46c65e46358cd7dc44c87f37e1\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: What was the cost to hard-working New Zealanders of allowing these imbalances to build up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edb25058ba784d5c8903d2ddb94782c1\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The cost to hard-working New Zealanders of the economic management of the last Government has, for too many of them, been that they have lost their jobs. Unemployment reached over 7 percent because too many of the jobs were based on excessive Government spending and excessive borrowing. They were not real, sustainable jobs. We now have the job of getting through a recovery, which will be quite a challenge, and creating real, new jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022752efcae6c5f42d4b5575f7315bc8443\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: What new policies has the Minister announced in the last 3 weeks to create jobs, and would the 159,000 unemployed Kiwis appreciate that he spent that time remassaging figures rather than coming up with an economic plan to get them a job?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e595f0c6657c404280ccb11f7ce984f7\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The most significant new policy that has come out recently has been the increase in GST and the reduction in income taxes. I have been interested in the Labour Party\u2019s position, which is now to abandon the tax cuts and provide an exemption for rates for GST. I invite those members to campaign across the country on that policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e28fd83f0db5478e8cb784693d6831b1\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is not Labour policy to provide an exemption on GST for rates. The Minister well knows it. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022091f8697805744a0832df0ee8af62824\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce845e589d7747faa5efa8a13c7d03b3\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Deliberately misleading the House\u2014against the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022703290c7bb9849cbb1256f253a625473\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will not interject while I am on my feet. I accept the cause for grievance, and the Minister should not be alleging that Opposition parties have certain policies. That is not within the Minister\u2019s responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fc05f1c-47b0-4fb0-8298-2f347adae4e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bc3acfa93a04a54ab626e7dc3492bf0\u0022\u003EHon Sir Roger Douglas\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that for every dollar the Government spends, the average New Zealander has $1 less in his or her pocket; if so, why did he allow public sector spending to increase from 46.4 to 50.4, or 4 percent of GDP, in the 12 months ended 30 June 2009\u2014an amount of $8,400 million?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d8956e2e39a45289c28320827e85d41\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Where we would agree with the member is that excessive Government spending when there is too much of it can limit our capacity for growth, because it keeps resources in the less productive Government sector when they should be in the more productive tradables and export sector. However, this Government has chosen considered and consistent change over time, rather than rapidly executed restructuring. We believe that that is the right balance, but we are always open to the discussion with our supporters from the ACT Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022274aa3acb81b465f83a2f5862add1c47\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table linked employer-employee data from the June 2009 quarter, which show that the number of people employed shrank in the year to March 2009 and the year to June 2009.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cdd6545acd14b53828d79b988902751\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222769cb1aaf924975a7f898f9cfb63cd2\u0022\u003EUnemployment Beneficiaries\u2014Increase from July 2008\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u00220c90b47b82c644669f2f9d9c65fee272\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c90b47b82c644669f2f9d9c65fee272\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: How many more people were receiving an unemployment benefit in July 2010 than in July 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef8aa55830c24a3fbf2b7eb739cda253\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef8aa55830c24a3fbf2b7eb739cda253\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Due to a combination of the global recession and poor economic performance from 2000 to 2009, 42,513 more people were receiving the unemployment benefit in July 2010 than in July 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222af4c36a46c9431b9128640e69675587\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she wait 18 days to release to the Parliamentary Library the full summary of benefit figures for July; and was the reason for this that between July 2009 and July 2010, under her stewardship, 18,000 more people received a main benefit, 6,800 more received an unemployment benefit, over 400 more received an emergency benefit, the number receiving the independent youth benefit rose by almost 30 percent, and the number receiving the unemployment benefit student hardship rose by almost 85 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca920ac1f9114ef6bc28a4b11592cd07\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I suppose I just question where the member has been for the last 2 years. This country has been going through the remnants of a global recession, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acec9a0415724302b048219dbf784203\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not think I even need to say what it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aecfa633d1a54991a31f7ad1bf4eab03\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think I can anticipate the point of order. The question asked why the Minister delayed releasing to the Parliamentary Library, if I recollect it correctly, certain benefit data. It then asked whether that was because of certain figures. The Minister can choose to answer either part of that question, but she should answer one part of the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7514be701724a19b6b8c3080e577853\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I can assure the House that on average we have been more transparent than the previous Government was. Those numbers were sent to the Parliamentary Library sooner than they were under the previous Government, and that is something I insisted on when I first became the Minister. Turning to the increases that the member mentions, it should be no surprise that we are going through tough times. There are people who are looking for work and are unable to get jobs. During some of the best times between 2000 and 2009, we could have upskilled young people so that they could get into sustainable jobs, and we could have supported businesses more so that they were creating employment for people. Now we have a big job to do in turning the situation round. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271f4156a4f844de290b1a57d18411cf4\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: How many new vacancies were listed with Work and Income in July 2010, compared with July 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212827e83837c46cc8ce4147b61e4f210\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: In July 2008 there were just 2,496 new vacancies. In July 2009 that figure nearly doubled to 4,000, but in July 2010 a total of 5,116 new jobs came into Work and Income. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022084f5daefa3d431d9f0955f2a06e8987\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she publicly release all monthly benefit figures to the Parliamentary Library in March, April, and May this year just 1 or 2 days after her press releases, but waited 16 days in June and 18 days in July, releasing them on a Friday afternoon, and why are they still not on the Ministry of Social Development website for all New Zealanders to see? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3111d32360a4af6b32906663659835b\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: As I have pointed out, we have been more transparent than the previous Government ever was in terms of making that information available. The member probably does not realise, because she spent so long as a Minister, that she has to do some of the work herself to find the information she might need. Reading the papers that come through might be useful, and then she might get the information that she is looking for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a55330035d84ef586db9bd12a51f517\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I know that you heard my question, and it was pretty straightforward. She did not answer any part of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d263ae31c164aa69d68003c3da8f516\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member asked a question, indeed, and as I tried to listen to the question it was extraordinarily difficult to hear, because of the interjections from the member\u2019s own colleagues. It was very noisy, and the Hon David Cunliffe knows exactly how much noise he was making. From what I could discern of what the Minister said, she did answer the question. The question asked why she did something, and there is never a precise answer to that, but I think the Minister did answer that question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228b415202740458188a010672d72b0df\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Is the reason she recently delayed the release of all monthly benefit figures explained in the headlines of her monthly press releases, given that in March she said \u201CBenefit numbers decrease as expected\u201D, in April she said \u201CUnemployment rate falls\u201D, in May she said \u201CBenefit numbers remain below forecast\u201D, in June she just said \u201CBenefit figures released\u201D, and finally in July she said \u201CBenefit figures rise\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cb6a71b11f648bba2872cb0f38f09e7\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Those sound to me like very honest press releases. They were put out in a timely manner and are there for everyone to read. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f0c1ccdeb3945db8240995058135f8e\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the March, April, May, June, and July benefit numbers, which were released only to the Parliamentary Library, and have to be requested. They are not available to the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5bb816aed594c2282834c456e1d59df\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought to release that information. It is alleged that the information is not generally available to the public. Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? There is no objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocuments, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c98212fad8c34105bf34cccb21e9a476\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Has she seen the media release from Statistics New Zealand that was released this morning, showing the annual decrease in actual jobs filled since the series began in 1999, and is that why she disagreed with the Prime Minister about New Zealand \u201Caggressively\u201D coming out of the recession? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc704c69499245de88a64eef23e5afc5\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have seen that press release. However, I have also seen a report recently that said from 1987 to 1990, under the watch of Phil Goff and Annette King, the number of people on the unemployment benefit rose from 40,000 to a whopping 150,000\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edb96be218d647c6a2030f54d667c38d\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Clearly, it is desperation when the Minister, instead of answering\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4a13996bef244c7af169e50f436c010\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. The member will resume his seat. He cannot start a point of order by accusing another member of an act of desperation. That has nothing to do with order. I will be very courteous to the member and listen, as long as it is a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f8e8adc589549f5b764aef4bfa97fb0\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: It goes to the issue of misrepresentation. Rather than the Minister responding directly to the question that the member raised, she is instead going back several generations to a time probably before she was born\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291d2bcc1727542f8a0010dc254fe74a1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. The member will resume his seat. I extended to him the courtesy of listening to a point of order that was not a point of order, and that was my own silly mistake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022418ecf6c9ed34c4ea0457c2f416c3615\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: What initiatives has her Government specifically designed for the more than 41,000 young people who are not in training, education, or employment, and who are not on an unemployment benefit; how many young people does the Minister estimate those initiatives will assist?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022556d6b1fd8524a8e97fd3d2bb7929267\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: To be clear, the primary question actually asked about the unemployment benefit, and now the member is mixing that up with the household labour force survey\u2014as she often does. To be clear, on the unemployment benefit\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222650af51e90e4fa39508967d7f1556f7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not helpful to the order of the House. I must admit that I heard what seemed to me to be a rather different question, so because I am now a little confused about it I will invite Jacinda Ardern to repeat her question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226896a612e7784e139bfb19bbd3a566e3\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: What initiatives has her Government specifically designed for the more than 41,000 young people who are not in training, education, or employment, and who are not on an unemployment benefit; how many young people does the Minister estimate those initiatives will assist?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c70814f1838c45e9acb7cb33774953da\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I quite proudly stand up on behalf of this Government and talk about the Youth Guarantee that the Minister of Education has introduced, and about the difference that that is making for those young people. I would like to talk about Youth Training, and how that programme is being turned round. We are seeing it go more directly to those young people who need it. I also stand up on the Training Opportunities Programme, which this Government has spent a lot of time on\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd41e87c083840faab4a776d931a8324\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I specifically asked whether she could give the number that that initiative would assist. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022367c1cb602e145dc9805d1572a09bc9d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014I do not need any assistance on this one. The member, perhaps unwisely, asked about the initiatives that the Minister has implemented to deal with those numbers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caed00908126495daed4e42082a2e2d8\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: What new initiatives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b4d638ae04748c8a76ebad1eb867fbb\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Specific.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4c978d43ad24877ab5bcbd09c5f4e66\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014members should not exchange interjections\u2014and the Minister answered on exactly that. She outlined the initiatives that she has been pursuing to deal with that issue. She does not have to cover all aspects of the supplementary question that was asked. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228268368dbe564eebb334224e695f977a\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: May I finish my answer, Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa4e924b2ce64e49905d3e8c616f0595\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think we have heard enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214cdbe18596b45c4987752697e07709d\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: How many young people will the initiatives that the Minister has just named assist? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022660ac8946af34a3cae823ff67d3bfc15\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: We have been specifically looking at 16 and 17-year-olds as being a key focus for this Government. I cannot give the member the exact number, because there are so many that we are reaching for with that focus. We saw, for the 10 years in the early 2000s, that the Government was not even identifying who or where those young people were, let alone providing services for them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022234b88222e004229837bf361b5f65fad\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House is being very noisy and it is very hard to hear, but I believe that the member asked a commendably direct question. I do not think that it contained any political statement. If I recollect the question correctly, it was about how many young people have been assisted by the initiatives that the Minister outlined in her answer to the previous supplementary question. I fully accept that the Minister may not have that information, given the primary question, but I think the House deserves to hear the answer. If the Minister does not have the information, that is fair enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f460a346e6242c59c2a291a5c26377f\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have the exact number, but I will say many, many, many. I would like to add, though\u2014and I think that the Opposition will be interested in this\u2014that we need to recognise that those young people were not even looked for through the early 2000s. No one looked for where they were or worked out how to get to them, in order to put them into the right kinds of services. That has been something that this Government has been concentrating on and putting a lot of effort behind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b95f7cc7556340b0a4dda4b8160413a9\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. To support your previous ruling that the Minister should attempt to give an answer in response to a very straight and succinct question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b24c4bb3ce134f0a93ecc07e9f313f9a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014the member is going on far too long; that is not a point of order. The member will resume his seat. The Minister acknowledged that she did not have that particular information, and one has to accept that that is not unreasonable, given the primary question. The primary question asked how many more people were receiving an unemployment benefit. The supplementary question had moved beyond that. It did relate to unemployed people, but it related to employment initiatives for young people. It is understandable that the Minister may not have that particular information with her in the House, given the primary question. I think it was a perfectly reasonable answer. As for what followed it, though, I confess that with all the noise in the House, I could not hear exactly what followed that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bba682ce1e543c8b16289b4840d778b\u0022\u003ECatherine Delahunty\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. How many people, if any, have been stood down from receiving an unemployment benefit after having their employment ended during a 90-day trial?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241ba56ec45d14f288b71fc4f50c11211\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have that number in front of me. It certainly has not been coming up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224941c01a66ff494b8485392f70753268\u0022\u003EDistrict Health Boards\u2014Health Targets\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u0022a08f9e9539144c34be118dddbc595285\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a08f9e9539144c34be118dddbc595285\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What reports has he received related to district health boards delivering on the Government\u2019s six health targets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u002261365722f54546319290608bf060cba3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261365722f54546319290608bf060cba3\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I have received a report that shows that after 1 full year since launching the Government\u2019s top six health targets, real progress is being made in all six targets. In relation to immunisation, the goal was for 85 percent of 2-year-olds to be immunised by July this year. I am pleased to advise that the number of 2-year-olds fully immunised has risen from 81 percent this time last year to 87 percent of 2-year-olds being fully immunised at the end of June this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f9e7df9f6994e7abd85025891367a4f\u0022\u003EDr Paul Hutchison\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister advise what the year-end results have been for the remaining health targets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257743de88fdb4114a94553eec9b88495\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Emergency departments are seeing more people faster. In the last year the number of patients admitted, discharged, or transferred from an emergency department within 6 hours has jumped to 87 percent. Stand-outs include Hawke\u2019s Bay, up 19 percent; Waitemat\u0101 and Capital and Coast, up 13 percent; and Waikato, up 16 percent. On the target of cancer radiation treatment within 6 weeks, district health boards achieved the standard for 99 percent of patients, a major improvement on the last quarter. The number of people given help to quit smoking has risen from 17 percent to 57 percent, and the percentage of patients receiving better diabetes and cardiovascular services has also risen. These targets show that patients are getting better front-line services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8ce27615d8a46ad9bba23919e1b1592\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: How many of the health targets does the Minister expect Capital and Coast District Health Board to fail to meet next year, given that the chief executive has just resigned, citing more cuts to front-line health services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223253e293d71d4a76b82216b64fedf011\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I expect Capital and Coast District Health Board to continue to do well in the health targets, reflecting the additional $57 million that this Government has put into that district health board. One of the real improvements is that the emergency department is seeing more people faster than it ever was under the Government of that failed party opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022866b02b6d10a40f19535bbbc15e15c87\u0022\u003EHeather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe that the health sector could have done even better with the greater involvement of the private sector; if so, what plans, if any, does he have under way to make greater use of private provision in health? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288ac3b2b68fc43a3af48912a11586c6c\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is a very good question. Private hospitals are delivering up to nearly 10 percent of total elective surgery, and the smarter use of the private sector has actually helped us reduce the cardiac surgery waiting list quite significantly. Of course, the private sector has made a very strong contribution to immunisation rates, because primary care is mainly in the private sector, and one thing the Opposition does not like to know is that the private sector has played a very important role in making sure that 99 percent of cancer patients could get their radiation treatment within 6 weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229cd3fb0a42e84056b4a24d64649aeb64\u0022\u003EDrink-driving, Blood-alcohol Limit\u2014Driver Fatalities\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u00220df1bc17f13a4866a7773cd4ab291e0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220df1bc17f13a4866a7773cd4ab291e0e\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Has he read the report Alcohol and other drug use in New Zealand drivers 2004-2009 by Environmental Science and Research Ltd prepared for New Zealand Police; if so, is he aware that it contains data showing the number of fatalities for drivers with a blood-alcohol level above 50 mg but below 80 mg/100ml?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022231f2bf0976d431497675ade31346a37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022231f2bf0976d431497675ade31346a37\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I have. An interim version of the report was cited in the Safer Journeys document released in March of this year. The report tested drivers killed in accidents over that period whose blood samples were sent to Environmental Science and Research Ltd, and it showed that 21 of them, or four per year, had an alcohol level of between 0.05 and 0.08. That number is actually surprisingly small, and is one of the numbers used by opponents of a change. However, it does not include the road toll impact of drivers with an alcohol level of between 0.05 and 0.08 who survive their accidents. That data is not complete, because there is no law allowing police to collect that information. That is the very reason why more comprehensive research is required, and why we are changing the law to allow this research to take place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bbddbc94e31423482aa9056e2740633\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he allow\u2014commendably, on his part\u2014New Zealand research like the report we are mentioning here today to act on drug-driving, but not allow New Zealand research like this to lower the alcohol limit for driving?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022545f281da7374b05a8ec6a1ee8349847\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Because, as I just explained to the member, the research is incomplete. That research provides information on people who have fatal accidents and are fatally injured themselves, but it does not provide information on the wider issue of the number of people with an alcohol level of between 0.05 and 0.08 who are involved in an accident. We cannot legally currently collect that data.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bb49461e5bb45bab3659b1e107b1840\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Has he met or asked to meet Dr Helen Poulsen, who wrote the report for Environmental Science and Research Ltd and the police this year, a report that is clearly research using New Zealand data about New Zealand drivers on New Zealand roads?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240efbcba583d4e77a0798cc8f9a5bae7\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I have not sought to meet the researcher. I have read the information, and the information is quite clear. It provides good information on drivers who are fatally injured in accidents. But, as I keep repeating to the member\u2014and I can say it as often as he would like me to say it\u2014the reality is that we do not have research on drivers who survive accidents and have blood-alcohol levels between 0.05 and 0.08. According to this report, the number of people killed in accidents with those levels of alcohol in their blood is roughly four per year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c18278695fd4bb3a7e791534a4d447d\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Is it still his position that 64 percent public support for lowering the alcohol limit for driving is not enough, and that he needs it to be 75 percent before he would support my bill to act on this issue, as he said on radio recently?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c84930010964983951094c9d0641a6e\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Once again, it is quite hard to take the criticism from the other side of the House, particularly given the long list of things we are doing in this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f5175a295764b57a4bdb61ee6ae73e0\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. In my questions today and on previous days I have worked very hard to stay clear of party politics and all the usual things we do in questions. All I have asked the Minister is whether it is still his position that 64 percent is not enough and that 75 percent is necessary, as he said on radio. I do not think it is reasonable that I, having gone to some effort to keep a partisan nature out of the questions, get answers like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022693f44a9b1444bf8844a54c7e398da08\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure the Minister will come quickly to the question asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aaea06c8b124fb183d380ec54e50b30\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, it is hard to take that criticism, because of the 9 years of inactivity on this matter from members on the other side of the House. The point is that there needs, firstly, to be a clear understanding of the harm being caused by drivers with blood-alcohol levels of between 0.05 and 0.08, and no matter how many times the member asks that question, data is not available on drivers with those levels who survive accidents. Secondly, lowering the alcohol limit does require broad public support. All the measures we have taken, and there are a significant number\u2014the cellphone rule change, the illegal street racing legislation, the decision to raise the driving age to 16, the drug-driving legislation, the nil-alcohol limit for recidivist drink-drivers and young drivers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2d9582b58f64f168b9fa86fa4ec6c97\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Indeed, I have congratulated the Minister on some of those initiatives, but I am not any clearer on whether it is his position that there needs to be 75 percent public support before he will support this measure, as he said on radio. That is the question I am asking him. Is it the position of the Government that opinion polls have to show 75 percent support for lowering the alcohol limit for drivers before he will support my bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e322645494784038861e8cf3723e18bf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister indicated that it would need a high level of support. I accept that he may not have exactly confirmed that it would need 75 percent support, but I cannot force a Minister to confirm something like that. The member has asked his question, the Minister has given his position, and I cannot force him to answer beyond that on that question. People can draw their own conclusions as to whether a high level of support reaches that point. I do not think it is reasonable for the Speaker to try to force the Minister to answer beyond that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002248890dccfd4342d3bf159179ac3d272c\u0022\u003EBroadband Roll-out\u2014Rural Initiative Progress\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u0022edf330986c624ca7a10360d6dd673cd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edf330986c624ca7a10360d6dd673cd7\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Communications and Information Technology: What announcement has he made today on the rural broadband initiative?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u00220fabd6946a8d4ed9858ef4bb91b6b8b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fabd6946a8d4ed9858ef4bb91b6b8b1\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Communications and Information Technology):\u003C/span\u003E The Government today issued the request for proposals for the Rural Broadband Initiative, which close on 12 November 2010. The Government intends to sign a heads of agreement before the end of the year, which will lead to new fibre being laid in the ground in rural areas shortly thereafter. With our approach, I am confident that we will achieve our target of 80 percent of rural households and businesses having access to broadband services of at least 5 megabits per second, and the remaining 20 percent on at least 1 megabit per second, within the 6-year period of the policy. This will be a vast improvement in Internet experience for rural households. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280f137f743de4f59a1dd75d4a8468e1f\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government decide to take a national approach rather than a regional approach?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5d983ca68ed4faeb6f5b2d07ad95f6b\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The expressions of interest informed that decision. We are now seeking national coverage proposals rather than regional proposals. It is clear that a range of national infrastructure companies will be able to meet the Government\u2019s rural broadband objectives. In addition, they have the financial backing to guarantee their proposal nationwide. It is also evident that although regional bidders were able to make a significant impact on broadband coverage in rural areas, they would fall short of achieving the Government\u2019s target for coverage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4a411780bd44922b670907d1fff44a4\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: How will the now national Rural Broadband Initiative fit the regional structure of 33 local fibre companies proposed for the urban ultra-fast broadband initiative, and does he now see that as coming with one national supplier, too?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212b750ca860844bdbb7d821c622a47d7\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: To answer the second part first, no, not necessarily. The reality is that the ultra-fast broadband\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022667b1db9f5144925b4177f010792d505\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Which one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264ee4b5ca4c747c89fda99965b89540d\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we have always said that it may be or it may not be. The reality is that the two initiatives are separate. They are proceeding separately under two separate processes. I am quite confident that they will knit together in much the same way that lines companies do in the electricity sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224aaa259ca714477ea0ee34d3f4f06bd0\u0022\u003EEducation, National Standards\u2014Support of Trustees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022d54dade5f0834e519a779a16f05d38b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d54dade5f0834e519a779a16f05d38b9\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does she stand by her statement in relation to the implementation of the national standards \u201CThe Trustees, who govern schools on behalf of communities and parents, were extremely supportive\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a18b6bad090b40359a2a90e4dd022d4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a18b6bad090b40359a2a90e4dd022d4d\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273e9b2ee99504a93a05b75ebedba4d99\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Did she read all letters and emails she received from trustees between 2 July 2009 and 13 May 2010 on the national standards issue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022942f0c6703df494d85c4c4f5e556f730\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I get a lot of emails and letters into my office. I attempt to read all of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022991aafb747fa472cb8d18b69dad0f3b0\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter from Lorraine Kerr of the New Zealand School Trustees Association, complaining of the Minister not reading a briefing letter on national standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0b4230bcc0f435b9496feb73e839206\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022821040db8cf8407bbd0e32524b52ee64\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister seen from boards of trustees about national standards?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022849b1d22e5ac48c0ab60949124282642\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen one report from a school board that said \u201CWe believe that parents have a fundamental right to receive information regarding the progress of their child through the school.\u201D This Government agrees with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b53c858c2d54190be76071eaa31b983\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: What has led her to believe that boards of trustees are extremely supportive of national standards, when of the 51 letters and emails she received and released earlier this month only one was supportive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cda9ae1d88404056bece2fd370be8905\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: If one takes a quote out of context it does not always work. The quote in the primary question related to a press release I made after attending the national conference of the New Zealand School Trustees Association. I can tell members that its members were extremely supportive of national standards. I know, because I was there and that member was not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214e0aac04b034f8fb83f2cee27236bc8\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Does she feel that she has misled the public in claiming trustees are supportive of national standards, when less than 2 percent of the correspondence she has received from trustees is supportive of national standards, and she has publicly interpreted that as trustees being extremely supportive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022304f914c39724b58873ad336727edcd5\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: No. As I say, at the annual conference of the New Zealand School Trustees Association, the president of that association, who along with her executive has been extremely supportive of national standards, got a standing ovation. That was a very good sign that the 600 representatives at that conference were supportive of the executive\u2019s stance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267d50766c7c347689152d24f937760e2\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Which of the following comments about national standards that she has received from members of boards of trustees led her to believe that they are extremely supportive of those standards: \u201CWe hold grave concerns.\u201D, \u201CNational standards will stifle student and teacher creativity.\u201D, \u201CIt is my opinion that this project would be best dropped.\u201D, \u201CI wish to formally state my concerns against the proposed national standards.\u201D, or \u201CWe have decided we will not be implementing national standards at out school.\u201D; which of that representative sample of the correspondence to her from trustees, 96 percent of which expressed opposition, led her to believe that trustees are extremely supportive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251e392fc27814dbf86953e53e566457b\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Those individual boards and individual members have every right to hold an opinion about anything that a Government or an Opposition does. However, boards of trustees are Crown entities and they have to obey the law of a democratically elected Government. If they do not, there are consequences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6a104d29b3a4a90ab7e247d567ec625\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the entire correspondence that the Minister has received from trustees, which she released to me under the Official Information Act, and which indicates that 96 percent of the boards that have corresponded with her are opposed to the standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a368d7cca9e34a7cbd54165b3a43d63d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? There is objection. I call Rahui Katene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c549b909f7104ca3b8542cb9ae8ec745\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225430e7d075794cb781c85aa162c377af\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have called Rahui Katene. She is towards the back of the House and I want to hear her supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de85b4f2a4e446c792535ffbb324124e\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: What involvement has there been with boards of trustees of kura kaupapa M\u0101ori and kura-\u0101-iwi about ng\u0101 whanaketanga r\u016Bmaki M\u0101ori\u2014M\u0101ori medium national standards\u2014and what feedback has there been from those trustees?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1c5387ef5514428aca8b62b4ac1ca0d\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Consultation and information gathering about ng\u0101 whanaketanga were based on 14 regional hui. These were held from March to May of this year, and offered an opportunity for iwi, families, wh\u0101nau, teachers, and school leaders\u2014including boards of trustees\u2014to provide feedback on the standards. More than 800 participants attended and feedback was received through both oral and written media. The third source of information is ongoing, in-depth engagement from March to December of this year with the sector, including boards of trustees from 42 schools with M\u0101ori medium settings. Most of the feedback, I understand, has been extremely positive and constructive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f6c5be2c17ad4fd69533c6c0fffa2084\u0022\u003EAlcohol Law Reform\u2014Police, Fire Service, and Defence Force Bars\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022 data-id=\u002275c1722129d849b79ff5db6a2e45d78f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275c1722129d849b79ff5db6a2e45d78f\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Why are the police, Fire Service, and Defence Force bars exempt from liquor licensing requirements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab35f14323d54d4fa87dc63286422ee0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab35f14323d54d4fa87dc63286422ee0\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Revenue) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Justice: The exemptions for police, Fire Service, and Defence Force bars under the Sale of Liquor Act 1989 arose as a result of the hours, location, and nature of those jobs. All three agencies have their own internal processes and controls to manage the sale, supply, and consumption of alcohol on their premises, in a way that the Law Commission report noted emulated the rules set down by the Sale of Liquor Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de8c6473add845efbd305ccc608ba9f3\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the police commissioner that \u201Cofficers should face the same rules as everyone else\u201D, and that \u201CIf you are going to show some leadership around this issue then you should subject yourself to the same rules as everyone else has.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b0d8ceeabe44e12849a3b29a6d5075e\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: The short answer is to refer to what I said in my primary answer\u2014namely, that these conditions are set out in the current Sale of Liquor Act because the conditions under which those bars operate are in many senses parallel to the conditions in the Act. But the Government has made it clear that it is more than happy for the select committee to give some consideration to this issue, and if it feels that the view adopted by the Commissioner of Police should be adopted in respect of the police and the other agencies, this Parliament can give some thought to that matter when the bill comes back to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8c8804bb5a54f4e84612d5786a9de38\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that exempting the police, the Fire Service, and the Defence Force from liquor laws creates a perception of unfairness and the impression that they are above the law?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0cd90e7a53f438b8fff071ef130edf1\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: I need to make the point again that it is not a question of their being exempted from the laws; they have their own procedures, which actually follow very closely the law that is in place. As I say, when the select committee has the legislation before it, and gives consideration to this matter and receives submissions upon it, it may well come to a different view. I point out to the House that there are currently only some 28 police bars throughout New Zealand, and no new police bars have been put in place since 2005. So I suspect that in many instances the matter is taking care of itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204adb471449a49c698296e97c7f6683e\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: Is the liquor licensing exemption for the police, Fire Service, and Defence Force consistent with the decision made by the Minister of Corrections to exempt prison officers from the policy to ban tobacco in prisons? What is the rationale behind awarding special privileges to these officials to exclude them from policy reform in alcohol and tobacco control?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6a98709022a4757885e42bf995843f1\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: I limit my response to the second part of the question. I think I have explained the rationale, which is that these particular categories\u2014the police, Fire Service, and armed forces bars\u2014operate in a manner akin to that set out for other premises as laid down in the Sale of Liquor Act. That means that, as a consequence, they operate in virtually the same way as every other outlet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222654f14766574783aacf84c3fecd6fd2\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the Prime Minister\u2019s statement that \u201Cour experience is that the they\u201D\u2014the police\u2014\u201Cdrink responsibly.\u201D; if so, is he aware of the series of well-publicised cases of police being convicted of driving while drunk after drinking for many hours in police bars? Does he agree that this behaviour undermines respect for the police and their ability to uphold the law, especially the enforcement of liquor laws?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022164f3554d6f747d182545e230319c8a9\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of the Prime Minister\u2019s statement. I am aware of the facts and the number of cases that the member is referring to. I make the observation that those cases probably fall in proportion to the level of cases in general society, and I also point out that the penalties that offending officers receive often involve loss of employment\u2014far more significant consequences than elsewhere. I think the public can have confidence that, by and large, the police and the emergency services operate to the highest of professional standards, and that their activities are not alcohol-impaired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022085fde47711146a8bd4585cf10287c5e\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that if police, defence, and Fire Service bars are exempt from the requirements of the Sale of Liquor Act they will be able to supply liquor at any time of the day or night, including to intoxicated people, and will be exempt from the requirement of all other bars in New Zealand to promote the responsible use of alcohol?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3119bd21b9c46b3bc1122bf34512f77\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot confirm the exact nature of the member\u2019s question. In all my experience of working with those groups, they make a very high priority of ensuring that they promote responsible use of alcohol. They take very strict and dim views of their members who infringe in that regard, and I have no reason to believe that that is about to change in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adb7dfa58b2f451d86e324bb209ffe83\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Government believe it is important that Parliament should lead by example and give up its exemption, but police, who enforce the law, should not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a06196112c904f93b6c7fe4fb0a9b432\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: I think the situations are somewhat different. There has been a rather unusual focus on Parliament\u2019s behaviour over the years. Parliament has decided that, given the fact that we have one bar here, which is open for only a limited number of hours each night, it is probably just as well to put it under the general licensing provisions. I do not think we can draw conclusions from that decision in respect of those other agencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022097914b22f624a5c949712dc0f6d7182\u0022\u003EConsumer Affairs, Minister\u2014Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u00220cd77b6be33246fe85e2afd184ec7da2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220cd77b6be33246fe85e2afd184ec7da2\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Consumer Affairs: Does he stand by his statement that he is \u201Ceager to continue making it easier for businesses and consumers to deal confidently in a fair market place\u201D at the Member Forum for Electricity and Gas Complaints Commissioner Scheme DVD launch yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7bc37c2d07a41acbbed8ba6ee8c8dbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7bc37c2d07a41acbbed8ba6ee8c8dbf\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BOSCAWEN (Minister of Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022565c44039130468e82a4d18778f93ec5\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister think that the Electricity Industry Bill, which he praised in his speech yesterday, will make it \u201Ceasier for businesses and consumers to deal confidently in a fair marketplace\u201D, when under that bill his Government will remove consumer and renewable energy representatives from their current positions on industry regulatory bodies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aee30d02f8dd4e7c883bdd5b8ed6cbdb\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: When I attended the launch yesterday I was impressed by the commissioners and staff of the gas and electricity complaints tribunal. I doubt whether the changes made in the Electricity Industry Bill, which has recently passed through Parliament, will in any way negate from the benefit of that tribunal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022765d3579fa3f4d02a7cd103ed41cbeb0\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: How does he think that the Electricity Industry Bill will make it \u201Ceasier for businesses and consumers to deal confidently in a fair market place\u201D, when our largest generator, Meridian Energy, would not say yesterday how much prices would rise by when the freeze ends in October, and when energy consultant Bryan Leyland says the system makes consumers pay four times as much per year, without great benefit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292461326d3fe4a0eb6c5c33251d88db9\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BOSCAWEN\u003C/span\u003E: Let me repeat that having spoken with the chief commissioner of the complaints tribunal yesterday, I have no doubt whatsoever that the tribunal is well resourced, has capable staff, and will do a very good job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb18549ffe244273ac795dbc72dfd628\u0022\u003EPrisons\u2014Escapes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u002267944a9d15064e7688432c1de16a1d01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267944a9d15064e7688432c1de16a1d01\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: What reports has she received about the rate of escapes from New Zealand prisons?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002256a35278bb8b44219f8caf8e332002aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256a35278bb8b44219f8caf8e332002aa\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to report that the rate of escapes from New Zealand prisons has dropped to the lowest level the department has ever recorded. Over the past financial year there have been three escapes from places of custodial control, and six \u201Cwalk-aways\u201D, when low-security prisoners have walked away from supervision or escaped while being escorted. This compares with 12 escapes in 2008-09, and 23 in the previous year\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022818a89e53fd14239aff732f969dd8eab\u0022\u003EHon Tony Ryall\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022616560c12c654c0d869f94fdae3805d4\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u201423 when Mr Goff was the Minister. It is particularly impressive when one takes into account that the prison population is now at its highest ever level. The No. 1 priority of the Department of Corrections is keeping the public safe from our most difficult and dangerous people. I congratulate the department on its excellent effort.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222583e53b151c47cfa029cb45db83434d\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain the reasons behind the record low number of escapes, apart from the fact that she is a fantastic Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022954886059cf74877b8b2bddad77044bd\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure about the last bit of the question; I think I will deal with just the first part. The Department of Corrections has taken a comprehensive range of steps to ensure that prisoners remain safely behind bars. More sophisticated perimeter fencing, new detection and surveillance systems, improved intelligence, and single points of entry into our prisons have all helped achieve this new record. The department has also brought in a new security classification system, which has tightened the criteria that a prisoner must meet to be considered for employment in a work party outside the prison perimeter. This will further boost the department\u2019s efforts to ensure that prisoners remain safely under lock and key. So well done to the Department of Corrections! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7b8550f238b411d8ddb26a1c553a426\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Even though the Minister was speaking very clearly and enunciating beautifully, and is sitting only about 3 yards away from me, I could not hear her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3cea099636442ef8df4c4b3089f8504\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure that the member could hear her perfectly adequately. I think the member is trifling with me and wants to hear the answer given again, but I think the House heard it perfectly well. I am surprised there are no more questions on the matter, given the last supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c0ec6d3b8ba4e0abe6776109d47d298\u0022\u003EEmployment, 90-day Trial Period\u2014Work and Income Policy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022400e6378c00541c29f41656671bd3afc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022400e6378c00541c29f41656671bd3afc\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she agree with the Minister of Labour, who, when asked about someone on the unemployment benefit being referred by Work and Income to a job with a 90-day trial period, said \u201CIf they do not want to avail themselves of that job opportunity and that trial period then they do not have to\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022d22636cbe52343708efc0e15700c074b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d22636cbe52343708efc0e15700c074b\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E In context, yes. We cannot force anyone to take a job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297e61fca3eaa48daae513e33668d9475\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Would it be possible for Work and Income to cut that person\u2019s benefit if they did not want to avail themselves of a trial period, in which an employee can be fired within 90 days, with no reason given and no right to an unjustified dismissal claim?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c20dd4b206424fa6b4b050b78ffa9cca\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The guidelines on this are very clear, and I quote from the Work and Income website: \u201CA person claiming unemployment benefit is required to be actively seeking full-time work. If an employer offered suitable employment that requires an employment trial in the agreement or contract, that employment is treated the same as any other suitable employment.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222006612d4e7549c1a29e4188a9ee86e7\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: How voluntary is the 90-day trial period for someone referred to a job by Work and Income, considering that its policy allows it to cut that person\u2019s benefit if he or she does not take the job?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294297a8e76d44943b1c78c89ac21f2ff\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: We want to see New Zealanders in work. Just in the last week or two I have heard members from the other side saying that more than 2,000 New Zealanders lined up for jobs at a supermarket. I think that tells us that they do want to work, and they want to step up and take every opportunity they possibly can, and we certainly support them in that. New Zealanders would see this policy as very fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3cb0b2194624ffba8ee85fd84c83db4\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question asked how voluntary the 90-day period is, and I did not get anything near an answer to that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273204c15479e4f259b4cd27664b5dc1f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: To be quite honest, I thought that the member\u2019s question was answered in the previous answer given, and that the member, in her further supplementary question, was asking for exactly what the Minister had just told her. I think the member has already received the answer. It is not as though she has not received the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b62d539ee134b9f9a7ab1a94af78e43\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Is it possible for an employee who is dismissed under the 90-day trial period to then face a 13-week disqualification period from Work and Income because a case manager believes that the employee was dismissed for misconduct reasons, even though the employee cannot test the validity of that dismissal through an unjustifiable dismissal claim?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022165d88b6a3e449f68b72300e6d029c99\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The guidelines on that are fairly clear. The only time there is a stand-down period within the 90 days\u2014if there is a trial period\u2014is if Work and Income feels it has evidence of fraud or serious misconduct. If Work and Income does not have evidence of that, then it issues the unemployment benefit. If that evidence comes to light later because the police prosecute or for some other reason, then Work and Income can insist that the unemployment benefit that the person received during that period be paid back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022013eb40d673247e8b06c68d432c0faa6\u0022\u003EWork and Income\u2014Services for Senior Citizens\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b408d9ecec264d4c87fa014432acb8f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b408d9ecec264d4c87fa014432acb8f0\u0022\u003EHEKIA PARATA (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: How is Work and Income delivering services to seniors more effectively?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00229ad69253387d482581279c520ca39f26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ad69253387d482581279c520ca39f26\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E We have been working hard to streamline services for our senior citizens: for example, enhancing our senior citizens call centre operations. Previously all senior services operated on different opening hours, which was confusing, time-consuming, and just plain inefficient. The new service line will operate from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. on 0800 552 002.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1667910fa214a0b8b45349a7b433220\u0022\u003EHekia Parata\u003C/span\u003E: How else are services for seniors improving?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a8212d723fd4c1e8af2da9ee6a26c78\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Online services are becoming increasingly available. From April this year seniors have been able to apply online for their superannuation. Already, around 4,000 clients a month apply online, which is about 10 percent. Seniors are the fastest-growing group when it comes to being savvy with information technology, and we want to make sure they have access to that sort of service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e07bda9688c44db2b2adc8f4ff8d46cd\u0022\u003EH V Ross Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Can the Minister then tell the House how these administration changes really assist senior citizens, the majority of whom are on fixed incomes, to meet the rapidly rising costs of electricity, rates, and other household costs that have already outstripped the proposed small rise in superannuation that was intended to offset the Government\u2019s increase in GST?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1f7f9d2f8b147a181d541a30abe5eda\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: What I do know for a fact is that the cost of electricity increased dramatically under the previous Government and it has not increased by anywhere near that amount under this Government, so it has obviously been of benefit for those on superannuation to have the National Government representing them, because previously we saw their costs going up exponentially. But there are efficiencies in services. There is access to the help that those senior citizens need, and I certainly suggest that they contact us on the 0800 number that I have already mentioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022081bb6b1edce4d2f85f288c9c20ba05a\u0022\u003EEmployment\u2014Workplace Access for Union Representatives\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u002206a2a96415f24c67a563f07f8d875777\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206a2a96415f24c67a563f07f8d875777\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: What situations would be defined as unreasonably withholding consent by an employer under her proposed changes to workers having access to their union in the workplace?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u0022d542884c1ca245ccbe99009092805a69\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d542884c1ca245ccbe99009092805a69\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP (Minister of Defence)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Labour: The draft of the bill does not actually specify those situations. The reason is that the Employment Relations Act 2000 provides guidance as to what is reasonable, as stipulated, particularly, in section 21 of the Act, which deals with conditions relating to access to workplaces. There is also a body of case law on these issues, which provides further guidance to parties about what might be considered to be unreasonable access.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9dfe9796c6e47d3936c1b5f8ac8cf57\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: How much consideration did she give to her department\u2019s advice that the current law is working, before proposing to make changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242911a44c9df4869ae5c2076c44d91b4\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: There are two points here. The first point is that the Government is fulfilling a campaign commitment to New Zealanders, and it is worth reminding the member who asked the question that therefore 45 percent of New Zealanders voted for this policy. Secondly, the Minister has had reports of union representatives stopping customers from coming into the workplace, disrupting customers in the workplace, and tying up workers for hours of productive time. That led to the conclusion that it was absolutely imperative to fulfil our campaign commitments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022293fe131dd61411dba7c83e37887e692\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement in regard to restricting the right of employees to invite union representatives into the workplace: \u201CThe benefits, while symbolically significant, are likely to be marginal in practice\u201D; if so, why is she pushing this policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261ca59ce68f748cca90f36e79e6386ce\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: There are two reasons. One reason is that we are fulfilling our commitments to the New Zealanders who voted for us on this issue, amongst other issues. The second reason is that 10 cases over the past 10 years have gone to the Employment Relations Authority or the Employment Court\u2014and in one instance, the case proceeded to the Court of Appeal\u2014on precisely this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022379c0741cd854783b77e79f54175b137\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: How will her Government\u2019s plans to restrict employees from organising in unions help to reduce the wage gap with Australia by 2025?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d00957870e04520887710692bed237b\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: Employees are not restricted from joining unions, and, frankly, this issue has no relevance to closing that gap. In fact, it will make workplaces more productive and more efficient.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d1a7769b6c9423ebc949f361234f4fa\u0022\u003EQuestions to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002277fb552dfa29465b851c200aa8b3d179\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2)\u2014Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220633402a5134243adb57ef61899dacf\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee: What is the deadline for submissions to the Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2)?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022264a7e42247b4bd9bd08abc95e91279a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022264a7e42247b4bd9bd08abc95e91279a\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee):\u003C/span\u003E The deadline for submissions on the Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) is 13 September.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5340dfefc314eaa93576c7c30f9cc58\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Was that deadline set before or after the bill passed its first reading and was referred to the select committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d590ddd5f6104802aa72cecd52e8721c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call David Bennett, if he has the answer to that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266aba2d5c6ea466fa8f772869358eb17\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The bill was referred to the committee on 19 August, and the committee made a decision informally to open submissions after that time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227df412a572bf40cead89d6420cffece5\u0022\u003EHolidays Amendment Bill\u2014Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e6414871c03488d9ba467787d752db0\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee: What is the deadline for submissions to the Holidays Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002220d79f2659354015a3bdfc149b87deb1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220d79f2659354015a3bdfc149b87deb1\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee):\u003C/span\u003E The deadline for submissions on the Holidays Amendment Bill is 17 September.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dc98b97b5e84857b885f4493bf2b2ca\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Was that deadline set before or after this bill passed its first reading and was referred to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe5c25585c7143b390a4832d113cd401\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The bill was referred to the committee on 24 August, and the committee informally agreed that it would have submissions until 17 September.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228fa51fef84ce406890f76fb2f3ada91b\u0022\u003ELand Transport (Driver Licensing) Amendment Bill\u2014Submissions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251cac7e6934d4c3aa8ec98b1041d4b95\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee: What is the timeline for submissions on the Land Transport (Driver Licensing) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00225c42e584429742358172f312bafc29cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c42e584429742358172f312bafc29cb\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee):\u003C/span\u003E The timeline for submissions on the Land Transport (Driver Licensing) Amendment Bill is a matter that the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee has yet to decide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5773edacf4e428da1b07d4965022f6e\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Has the committee resolved to hear any submissions on this bill to raise the driving age, which was introduced under the previous Labour Government in 2007, before the bill is due to be reported back on Christmas Eve?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c71a5e6a8b7b4093b2babd3929c303f1\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The committee has yet to determine any time frame for submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226caa32bfae074363b81b3979ffc88ec0\u0022\u003EMotor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002297ddd153f1c644c1bd3eab93ee31d3f0\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000607\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002218ae58d2b5534066ab58e9f3b243658a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218ae58d2b5534066ab58e9f3b243658a\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E When we were finishing before lunchtime, I congratulated Heather Roy on the very comprehensive speech that she gave on the third reading of this bill, the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill. I contrasted her speech with the speech delivered by Minister John Boscawen, who is in charge of the bill and who seemed to have barely a grasp on what the House was debating. He stuck entirely to the scripted notes provided to him by his department. I wondered whether Heather Roy had written the speech herself before she was given the chop from the job and whether John Boscawen had simply come along to the House and delivered her speech. He did not seem to have any grasp of the bill that is being debated. He took only one call at the very beginning of the Committee stage of the bill. That was the only contribution from the Government during the Committee stage. There was a very short call from John Boscawen at the beginning and nothing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221998e34812ec4be5805b58b875a0913e\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019d he say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221440e22d44ae466895be7725a4dabc34\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know what he said; it was not all that impressive. He did not really say much. There was no mention of the emissions trading scheme, which was quite a milestone for him. I think it was the only speech that he has ever delivered in the House that did not mention the emissions trading scheme. He did not demonstrate any knowledge of the bill, which he is charge of. He demonstrated that he had no idea about what he will do in the consumer affairs portfolio, which makes one wonder why he is the Minister of Consumer Affairs. What was wrong with the last one? She seemed to be doing an OK job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe Committee stage of this debate did throw up some interesting pieces of knowledge. Moana Mackey shared with us that she chooses which car to purchase by the number of cup holders it has. It has to be a white car or a silver car, and it has to have a cup holder. We also found out that Moana Mackey made the mistake of choosing a car that did not have a petrol light. She discovered the hard way what that meant. Moana confided to me at lunchtime that she continued to drive the car with no petrol and discovered that it did not have a petrol light only when the car stopped\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5c67d02ecf649df9aacf707791628d4\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m a scientist!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c7cd3e636ce458eafbfc50c48eed6d4\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: So Moana Mackey\u2014the scientist\u2014thought that providing the petrol light was not on, the car must still have petrol, even though the needle was on empty. She thought that if there was no light blinking at her, the car must still have petrol. That goes to show that even scientists can get it wrong, which is why it is so important that good-quality consumer information is available to consumers purchasing second-hand motor vehicles. That is one of the reasons why the consumer information notices provided when second-hand cars are being sold are really important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EOne of the things this bill does is to remove the obligation to provide consumer information notices in the case where a car is being sold privately. However, as I pointed out during the Committee stage of the debate, a number of cheap cars are sold privately. The majority of cheap cars are sold privately, therefore the removal of that obligation is quite a significant issue for young people. Most young people buy cheap cars. They will not go to a car yard and spend five grand or more. They will spend $500 picking up something off TradeMe or off the sale and exchange classified advertisements in a newspaper. So they will need to be very wary of what they purchase. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIf there is one message that we need to get through to those who buy cars privately, it is buyer beware. People will not necessarily be given information on whether a person whom they are purchasing a car from still owes somebody else money for the car. If that person still owes somebody else money, then the purchaser could well find themselves facing a liability they were not aware of. People who privately buy cars need to be very cautious. There is definitely a case of buyer beware. But if they purchase a car from a licensed motor vehicle dealer, the dealer needs to provide a consumer information notice stating whether somebody still owes money on that vehicle. That is a very positive thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWe are here debating this legislation under urgency, again. We had the first reading debate when the House needed to go into urgency about a year and a bit ago, but it took over a year for the bill to suddenly become urgent again. Now we are back under urgency debating the Committee stage and the third reading of it. It was not really urgent in the first place; it is still not really urgent. It is simply poor organisation on the part of the Government, which is absolutely abusing parliamentary process, in my view, in the way that it is handling this bill, as it has with so many others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe handling of this bill says something, however, about the Government\u2019s sense of priorities. At this time, when it has absolutely no economic plan whatsoever to tell New Zealanders about, it thinks that the single most important priority the House should give its attention to is a bill to reduce compliance costs for used-car salesmen. That is the National Party\u2019s economic plan at this point in time\u2014to reduce compliance costs for used-car salesmen. It does not have anything more important or more urgent to bring before Parliament. Despite the fact that we were here until midnight last night, there is still no economic plan from the Government, still nothing that will close the wage gap with Australia, and still nothing that will put hard-working Kiwis back into jobs. Instead, there are thousands of people lining up outside supermarkets applying for relatively low-wage jobs, and the Government thinks the most important thing that it can do for the New Zealand people is to reduce compliance costs for used-car salesmen. I think that says something about the Government\u2019s priorities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EFinally, on the topic of consumer information notices, I have to say that I hope they have a little bit more credibility and integrity than the voter information notice the National Party distributed before the last election, otherwise known as its pledge card. We know that the voters could not believe a word of it, because National has already broken nearly half of the promises on its pledge card. If that was a consumer information notice, there would be a fair trading case to take on the basis that National broke its promises and that that notice meant nothing. With those comments, I conclude. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022a50c4adfca0f460b8ee718c4f7130b1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a50c4adfca0f460b8ee718c4f7130b1c\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Following on from that very\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022355e51b0129f40d9bae8a6e096dc3486\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: Erudite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228db53f507a894d288f602e78624e0ee7\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014erudite and articulate speech from my colleague Chris Hipkins, who raised a number of important points about the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill, I will reinforce a number of the points that he made, particularly around the fact that this bill is being heard under urgency. I know that we considered a number of alternative names for this bill in earlier speeches in the Committee stage. Given that almost every speech that I have given on this bill has been under urgency, yet my speeches have been several months apart, it raises questions about just how urgent this bill actually is\u2014or how much of a fill-in it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EOne of the main topics of discussion that we had in the Committee stage was a very important conversation on the importance of the vehicle purchasing decision that people make. When they make the decision to buy a house or a car, particularly when they do so in an online environment, there are a number of issues attached to that decision. That is why it is so important that the legislation is being updated to take account of all the dangers that can occur. One of the discussions that we had was on the vehicle purchasing decisions that people made when they bought their first car. We heard a lot about the various decisions that people had made. Those people included the Hon Lianne Dalziel, who has never purchased a vehicle online, and my colleague Moana Mackey, who leaves a little to be desired in terms of her knowledge about vehicle purchasing. Maybe she could do with a bit of assistance next time that she buys one, but she had the courage to admit it. What we were really after, though, was information on the decision made by the new incoming Minister when he purchased his first vehicle. That question was put to him, but, unfortunately, it was never answered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIn my previous speech I referred to the Labour Party blog, Red Alert. It ran a piece on this matter a few months ago and had a lot of responses. Today, in another short post, it has received a lot more responses. There was a very helpful and interesting comment from a member of the public, guessing about the ACT Party members\u2019 choice of their first vehicle. I thought I would share it with the House. The guess was that the current Minister, John Boscawen, chose a coal-powered vehicle, and, helpfully, the person provided suggestions on what other ACT Party members had as their first vehicle. The person suggested that David Garrett\u2019s choice was a horse that responded well to a good whipping; that Rodney Hide\u2019s choice was a bulldozer; that Heather Roy, the previous Minister, probably had an Alfa Romeo, which is attractive but temperamental and does not always perform as expected; and that Roger Douglas\u2019 choice was a chariot\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276a5c48c35d54ac6a05e233dc3aba4f0\u0022\u003EMoana Mackey\u003C/span\u003E: A horse and cart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bb44559c1174d3885e3dabd460c11f0\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: No, David Garrett\u2019s choice was the horse; Roger Douglas\u2019s choice was a chariot, which could have been pulled by peasants who were lucky to have the privilege of pulling it. I thought that that was an interesting comment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EGoing back to this bill and thinking about its main provisions, I will mention one particular amendment: the removal of the requirement for a private seller to display a consumer information notice when selling through a car market, and for car market operators to take steps to ensure that a private seller displays that information notice. It places a new onus on the car market operator to ensure that motor vehicle traders display that notice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThere is also the removal of car market operators from the definition of a \u201Cmotor vehicle trader\u201D, unless they are selling vehicles as compared with providing a venue where sales occur. Car market operators are not motor vehicle traders. That provision is quite important, because it clarifies the law for companies such as TradeMe, which was formerly defined as a car market operator rather than as simply a venue where sales occur. I draw the attention of the House to the submission that was made to the Commerce Committee from TradeMe, explaining that the current law meant that each of the 175,000 motor vehicle auctions that have been listed on TradeMe in the last year would have had to include a consumer information notice. In reality, that was not enforced by the Commerce Commission, so this amendment simply catches up with what everybody in the industry has agreed made sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI make reference to the number of vehicles that are being sold online. It is estimated that up to 70 percent of cars are being bought and sold privately, which is quite significant. In terms of car sales in 2008, 187,000 were sold by dealers to the public, 125,000 were sold by the public to dealers, and 462,000 were private sales. That is a significant number. It is believed that a significant number of those cars are now being sold online. Traders who are using online auction sites to sell motor vehicles have been put on notice by the Commerce Commission. There was a story in the New Zealand Herald a few days ago about this issue, saying the Commerce Commission wants traders to take their legal obligations more seriously. That warning came after a TradeMe seller had said, in a listing, that he was selling the car on behalf of his sister, and he had made other statements about the car\u2019s reliability and service history. A Commerce Commission investigation found those statements to be untrue. Apparently, that person had sold more than eight cars on TradeMe over a 12-month period and had not provided consumer information notices on at least two of those sales. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIt is good that the Commerce Commission took this matter very seriously and issued a warning. It is important that all motor vehicle traders be put on notice that the Commerce Commission expects them to take their legal obligations seriously. The point is quite well made that with new technology, changes in technology, and changes in the way that people are making purchases\u2014first cars or otherwise\u2014the way that vehicles are sold and the information that buyers can expect to get are very important matters. As my colleague Chris Hipkins pointed out, it has very much been a buyer-beware situation. We have had information reported to the House today during the debate on this bill that the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal has received 245 dispute applications this year, which is an increase on the 228 received for the year ended June 2009. The new Minister of Consumer Affairs noted, in a media release just the other day, that the tribunal had found in the consumer\u2019s favour in around 70 percent of the cases, and that almost 80 percent were decided using the Consumer Guarantees Act. That essentially highlights the need for a change in the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ELabour supports this common-sense bill, which builds on the work that was done by my colleague the Hon Lianne Dalziel. It was initiated under the previous Labour Government, and, as we have heard, it will make a difference, given New Zealand\u2019s high per capita rate of vehicle ownership. We heard earlier from one of the Green members that there are something like four million cars in New Zealand. The bill will make a difference because it is about protecting consumers. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a2ddb44f8e074db581b88fba06eed04c\u0022\u003EPrivacy (Cross-border Information) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eef0ed8f68bd40e9b50deb624041e245\u0022\u003EProcedure\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa1e8bae0580483e9837dea37a45a844\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa1e8bae0580483e9837dea37a45a844\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the Privacy (Cross-border Information) Amendment Bill to be set down for its third reading forthwith, without amendment or debate, following its second reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256ab4dfdd0fd4561842518de3a3693e8\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: So in essence there will be no Committee stage, and no debate or amendment on the third reading. Leave is sought for that purpose. Is anyone opposed to that course of action? It appears not. Leave is granted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a35e514aa57d4ceabc6d11f55ee55a5a\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0326792e02542be87bbf0a5c273c08e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0326792e02542be87bbf0a5c273c08e\u0022\u003EHon PANSY WONG (Minister for Ethnic Affairs)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: I move, That the Privacy (Cross-border Information) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. The Privacy Act is currently silent on the cross-border enforcement of privacy law. This bill remedies that, and enables us to assure our international trade partners that their customers\u2019 personal information will be protected by New Zealand law. The bill enables the Privacy Commissioner to issue a notice prohibiting the transfer to a third country of personal information sent to New Zealand from overseas, if there is evidence of an attempt to circumvent the privacy laws of the source country. This legislation also allows foreign nationals who are resident overseas to make information privacy requests, although public sector agencies will be able to charge for making that information available. Finally, the bill establishes a mutual assistance framework that will enable the Privacy Commissioner to cooperate with overseas privacy enforcement authorities on the handling of complaints.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EI thank the Justice and Electoral Committee for its careful consideration of the bill, and indicate the Government\u2019s support for the amendments it recommended. The committee identified a gap that unintentionally limited the commissioner\u2019s powers when undertaking an inquiry into cross-border sharing of personal information. To close this gap, the committee recommended aligning the powers of the Privacy Commissioner to conduct a cross-border inquiry with the powers she currently has to conduct an investigation into a complaint under the Privacy Act, under new section 114BA, to be inserted by clause 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe committee also recommended changes to new section 114B, which specifies a criterion that the Privacy Commissioner must consider when deciding whether to issue a transfer prohibition notice. The committee found that the first two subsections, which concern the protection of personal information received from overseas, overlapped, and it recommended removing subsection (1)(b). The committee also suggested that subsection (1)(c) was not sufficiently flexible, because it incorporated by reference the basic principles of national application set out in the OECD Guidelines Governing the Protection of Privacy and Transborder Flows of Personal Data. The committee recommended that those principles should be incorporated in a schedule, to ensure that any future changes to the principles were not automatically incorporated into the Privacy Act. A schedule that can be amended by Order in Council has been included. Other amendments to the bill involve clarifying provisions, or are of a technical or administrative nature.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe committee considered the Privacy Commissioner\u2019s concerns about whether the current grounds for complaint, and the commissioner\u2019s enforcement powers, needed to be extended. The committee also considered whether a specific provision was required relating to the sharing of information with overseas privacy enforcement authorities, but the Minister is satisfied that the existing provisions of the Privacy Act are sufficient to deal with the issue the commissioner raises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThis Government is committed to enhancing the international competitiveness of New Zealand - based businesses in cross-border commerce. We recognise that consumers too are affected by increasing globalisation and developments in e-commerce. I welcome the benefits that the bill offers to businesses and consumers alike, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u00228afc0dd037bc42e79cc3a27eb49d6a6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228afc0dd037bc42e79cc3a27eb49d6a6d\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The bill that is under consideration in this session was introduced by the previous Labour Government, and, as a result, members on this side of the House intend to continue their support for the Privacy (Cross-border Information) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe bill will address two problems that currently exist in the Privacy Act. The current Act does not allow foreign nationals who are resident overseas to make information privacy requests for information that is held in New Zealand, and the Act does nothing to prevent data received from overseas being transferred out of New Zealand to another jurisdiction without there being adequate privacy protection. They are two obvious flaws, which have come about as a result of the increased flow of both people across borders and information across borders since the enactment of the original legislation. They are a perfect example of the sort of problem that arises over time that this Parliament needs to update and address so that the commercial and the human rights concerns that arise out of those flaws can be properly addressed. There is a real business benefit as well as a personal benefit from the closure of loopholes by this legislation. Once it is passed, we will be able to better demonstrate in international negotiations that information stored in New Zealand or in respect of persons and business with which New Zealand has a connection is secure. That has to be a good thing for New Zealand business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe bill complements the Law Commission\u2019s review of privacy laws. The commission has recommended enacting surveillance devices legislation, which would make New Zealand privacy laws more consistent, and make it an offence to secretly film or track people. There is work to do in that area, but we are starting at least to fulfil some of the recommendations of the commission by getting on with this legislation today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIt is important to see the legislation in the context of much of the law that this Parliament has dealt with in the past couple of days under urgency. This legislation is an important part of the continuation of the business-friendly programme that the previous Labour Government was enacting to ensure that there was not excessive red tape and that our laws were up to date, so that businesses and individuals could feel confident about that level of sophistication in our legal system. So it is good to see Parliament finally progress the international privacy legislation through its final stages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe Justice and Electoral Committee\u2019s main concern was apparent from its report related to the OECD guidelines concerning privacy. Those guidelines are of extreme importance to New Zealand, given our membership of the OECD. Due to the way that the guidelines had originally been incorporated into the bill, any changes by the OECD to the guidelines would have been automatically incorporated into the legislation\u2014that is, changes made by a foreign organisation, an organisation comprising other countries as well, would have simply resulted in an automatic change to New Zealand law without any examination by this Parliament. The committee looked at that matter and took some advice from the Regulations Review Committee, as I recall. The committee in the end recommended that the basic principles of national application should be set out in a schedule to the Act, that the Governor-General be given the power to make regulations to amend the new schedule in the event that the OECD made new guidelines, and that any changes to the schedule as a result of that OECD activity would be subject to the Regulations (Disallowance) Act 1989, and thereby scrutinised by Parliament in the event that it was necessary. So there was a proper framework put in place on an incorporation by reference clause to ensure that parliamentary oversight of any amendments would be proper and in keeping with our constitutional traditions. It is good to see that the committee\u2019s report is being incorporated as far as those recommendations are concerned in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe committee also recommended that it be made absolutely explicit in the legislation that when determining whether to prohibit any transfer of personal information, the Privacy Commissioner should use the investigative powers in the Privacy Act if he or she felt the need to, just as he or she can when conducting an inquiry under the Act. So, the commissioner will be able to hear information from any person that he or she considers necessary in the event that that seems the right thing to do. The select committee process has clearly improved the legislation. We have proper scrutiny by Parliament of any changes incorporated from the OECD, and we have an enhancement of the Privacy Commissioner\u2019s authority consistent with her general jurisdiction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EMembers on this side of the House support the legislation. It is good to see the rest of Lianne Dalziel\u2019s programme as the former Minister of Commerce and the former Associate Minister of Justice being implemented by this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d7300d7fc294ff19d1bb891fc14951b\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Note \u201Cthe former\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225444a9ef15e74bcc8c5c8c5d0b067134\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: We have just had an interjection from a Minister who has no respect for anybody\u2019s privacy in this country, so it is rather ironic that she decides to speak out about an international privacy matter, but we will let that one go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe other issue that needs to be pointed to is that the select committee reported back on 30 September 2009. It is a shame that the Government does not think that this sort of red tape - cutting, good, pro-business legislation is important enough to progress more quickly. We have had to wait since September last year, since the committee reported back, to see the legislation come back to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a8b874ffc4f4700ba999e90db06e242\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Why are they so anti-business? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205982ea64aa94f6f966ed39d8d6c1736\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know why, as David Cunliffe says, members opposite are so anti-business, or why we have to put up with the symbolism, tokenism, and dog-whistle laws such as the \u201Cfire-at-will\u201D bill, which was trumpeted as pro-business legislation when, in reality, this bill is the sort of thing that will make New Zealand businesses more productive and competitive. On that basis, despite the lamentable delay in progressing it, I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad5733c3a074494d986b2680aa36b3a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad5733c3a074494d986b2680aa36b3a7\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E It is a shame that there was the odd barb in the previous speaker\u2019s comments, because the Privacy (Cross-border Information) Amendment Bill is well supported across the House. It was kicked off under the previous Minister of Justice and completed under the current Minister. It is another sterling piece of work from the Justice and Electoral Committee, and I give my thanks, especially, to the Hon David Parker for the contributions he made. The bill seeks to deal with a number of hurdles to international access to privacy, as well as New Zealand\u2019s ability to maintain sovereignty over the information that it discloses. A number of issues were raised and addressed during the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003ERemedies have been provided to enable foreign nationals who are located overseas to access and correct personal information. The bill also authorises the Privacy Commissioner to refer a complaint to an overseas privacy enforcement agency, if the complaint is within the jurisdiction of that authority. It also enables the Privacy Commissioner to prohibit the transfer of personal information outside New Zealand in cases where that information has been routed through New Zealand to avoid the privacy laws of the originating country. The bill further provides for the transfer of personal information outside New Zealand, and for prohibitions on the transfer of personal information outside New Zealand. The commissioner\u2019s powers to obtain information have been catered for within amendments that came out of the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8e4bcb2b88f4399ba009c81eb6d7b77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8e4bcb2b88f4399ba009c81eb6d7b77\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party will support the Privacy (Cross-border Information) Amendment Bill. It is driven by the correct concern of the European Union to have private information on databases etc. protected when that data goes to or through other countries. It is great that the European Union is leading the world on this issue and pulling countries like New Zealand in behind. It is good that the Justice and Electoral Committee appended to its report the basic principles of national application set out in Part Two of the OECD guidelines, because they are very good principles. They state that there should be limits on the collection of personal data and that there should be a specific purpose for which data is collected, so that it is not just a broad-brush collection. The principles also include a use limitation principle, ensuring that data will be disclosed only for particular purposes and to the right people and the right authorities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThere is an openness principle, which states that systems should be open and transparent, and a security safeguards principle. The individual participation principle states that individuals should have the right to know whether they are on a database. In the New Zealand case, of course, they should be able to gain access to that information. If the information is wrong or dated, it should be erased or changed. The accountability principle states that the whole system should be accountable. They are very good principles and this bill will help implement them, particularly what previous speakers have mentioned about the prevention of information gathering that avoids European Union privacy laws by passing through New Zealand and on to a country where there are no proper privacy laws. The European Union has had an ongoing battle on this issue, particularly with the United States. That is very relevant to us, because we have very close connections to the United States, including the passing of private data between New Zealand and the United States. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EOne of the areas where the European Union has had a battle with the United States authorities is in relation to data about people who travel on airlines. For a few years the American authorities wanted every bit of information that an airline passenger might have used to purchase a ticket and board the aircraft, including the credit card numbers of anyone who bought their tickets by credit card. The European Union said that that was too great an intrusion into privacy, and there have been big debates on that matter in the European Parliament and at European Union negotiations. Last month they reached an agreement in terms of what data and what more limited amount of data would be passed on to the US authorities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe other dimension where there has been a big argument is in relation to financial transaction information that passes through the SWIFT computer system. SWIFT is an international bank trading reconciliation system involving virtually every overseas transaction, including New Zealand banking transactions. New Zealand banks are among the 9,400 banks that are signed up to SWIFT. All that information passes through the SWIFT system, which is based in Europe with a mirror unit in the United States. The United States said to the European Union that when it had SWIFT on its territory it wanted access to every transaction in order to run it through its terrorist database. The United States said that for security reasons it wanted access to all the financial transaction information. After long negotiations the European Union and the United States reached an agreement. I am not sure of the details as I have not studied it to see whether it is a satisfactory agreement, but it allows the United States access to that information, with certain controls. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThere will be a European Union representative stationed in the United States to monitor whether the privacy concerns of the European Union and all those principles that I outlined in the appendix in the report back from the Justice and Electoral Committee are properly upheld. I think it will be challenging, because the reality\u2014and we found this in previous legislation that has passed through this House\u2014is that when we talk about passing on, for example, customs information to the United States, the idea of passing it to a specific agency in the United States is that it is for use by that agency only. It is not to be passed on by that United States agency to some other United States agency, unless it is broken down a bit. This is especially the case with the establishment of Homeland Security, which incorporates a whole lot of agencies that are separate in New Zealand or separate in the European Union countries. It is very hard to prevent that data crossing all sorts of boundaries in the United States. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003ESecondly, there is the problem of the very loose nature of the United States databases and its very weak privacy laws. I do not think that has been solved yet in the United States. The terrorist database in the United States, as I understand it, has 800,000 names. Well, there are hardly that many dangerous terrorists running around. When people investigated that database, and there have been official investigations and tests to see how accurate that information is, they found that there is a huge error rate\u2014up to one-third of the entries are wrong. There are problems with all sorts of people\u2019s privacy being intruded that should not be and people finding it difficult to get on airlines. Cat Stevens, who was here recently on a singing tour, was excluded from the United States because he ended up on the American database, so he was hauled off the plane, etc. There are still big problems with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI think it is important that we are on our toes when working with the European Union to make sure that there are better privacy systems and data protection, particularly in the United States. It is also important for other countries around the world. We want to be a model in that respect. I think what the Privacy Commissioner has done in this area has been fantastic, too. In not only this bill but also other bills, the Privacy Commissioner has insisted on being involved in vetting the regulations worked out to make sure that privacy principles were upheld in earlier legislation relating to customs. It was the Privacy Commissioner who was very insistent that any data sent overseas should be for a particular purpose and for a particular agency, and not generally transferred. So with those few comments, I would like to like indicate that the Green Party will be supporting this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u00223ae638d1d2784e5887b1e9759274b317\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ae638d1d2784e5887b1e9759274b317\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to stand and take a call on this, the second reading of the Privacy (Cross-border Information) Amendment Bill. While preparing for this speech, I read a staggering statistic in relation to this bill. According to the Privacy Rights Centre, up to 10 million Americans are victims of ID theft each year. It is mind-blowing to think of so many people being cheated of their unique identity and having their personal information stolen from under their eyes. I have to say that when our caucus was discussing this bill, my colleague Hone Harawira was rather amused to think that some young American punk could be running around using his name and trying to access his non-existent credit card. But it was less amusing when we pointed out to him that that fake Hone Harawira could be able to access his passport and take off anywhere in the world\u2014say, Paris\u2014and create problems over there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003ESo there is a problem, and it is good to know that one of the immediate advantages of this bill is that it will ensure a greater protection for personal information. The bill will also provide greater assurance to other countries that the privacy laws in this country can be relied upon to adequately protect personal data. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EIn many respects, this bill has been a long time coming. Since 1998 the European Commission has been urging the New Zealand Government to introduce two minor amendments to the Privacy Act, in order to meet the test of adequacy regarding the law about the privacy of personal information. That will be a benefit for both the protection of personal rights and New Zealand\u2019s trading relationships. But for M\u0101ori there is an even more important reason why this bill deserves to be supported. It comes back to whakapapa, the unique genetic code that links us through our genealogy to our t\u016Bpuna. One of the things M\u0101ori will often say to one another is that when a M\u0101ori child is hit, the whakapapa of its t\u016Bpuna is being attacked. The point is that the unique genealogy that links descendants to those who have walked before them must be respected and regarded as sacred. So this bill helps to preserve the sacred association with our origins that we acknowledge. It will help to ensure that New Zealand law meets the expectations of our trading partners, and it will remove an anomaly so that people living overseas can access their personal information held here in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is happy to support this bill, and the advance it makes in keeping pace with standards of data protection across the world. More particularly, we support it because it enables our whakapapa to be cared for appropriately. Globalisation, the growth of the Internet, and rapidly declining communication costs have presented new challenges in respect of protecting the personal information of individuals. We hope that with these amendments there will be superior protection for New Zealanders engaged in international transactions. There will be better access for people to their individual information, while limits will be placed on the transfer of that information. We are pleased to provide our support for this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0ce764bbf874c4da4d63ddd44c9c768\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0ce764bbf874c4da4d63ddd44c9c768\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E At its broadest, the Privacy (Cross-border Information) Amendment Bill shows a Government that takes privacy seriously, and that takes international frameworks and cooperation very seriously. I agree with Charles Chauvel\u2014in what was actually a pretty negative, petty speech, basically\u2014that this bill is pro-business and does a good job there. But I really want to say this bill gives us an opportunity to talk a little, in the remaining time that we have, about privacy and the issues that we confront with regard to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI think that privacy is a fascinating area, and one that this Parliament will have to grapple with even more in years to come. It seems to me that in privacy issues there is always a balance to be struck between freedom of information and expression on the one hand, and legitimate privacy and dignity issues on the other hand. We see that countries all around the world are grappling with that. Traditionally freedom of information has come out on top, but I think that that is changing as we see technology grow, with Facebook and with all those sorts of things. Different countries certainly take different approaches. The Law Commission has put out\u2014as it tends to\u2014a very long and learned paper on privacy, I think in 2009. As Sir Geoffrey Palmer says in that paper, these are big issues, and they are hard. He said \u201CThere are difficulties about defining privacy and balancing it against other interests. Rapid advantages in technology also mean that the landscape is constantly changing. Because technology is making it easy to invade people\u2019s privacy, the issues raised \u2026 are of importance to everyone.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThis is a very good bill. As I say, it shows that the Government takes privacy, international agreements, and business seriously. I doubt very much whether this will be the last time that we have to seriously debate and negotiate these sorts of issues, but it is good to stand in favour of legitimate privacy interests in my call to the House on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00224968bb5c8df14ec3a6b836aae27653fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224968bb5c8df14ec3a6b836aae27653fb\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to speak in the second reading debate of the Privacy (Cross-border Information) Amendment Bill, and I make particular mention of the work done on this bill by my colleague the Hon Lianne Dalziel, as Minister of Commerce and Associate Minister of Justice in the previous Labour Government. I also commend the Green Party today for supporting this bill. I think that shows true maturity, and it is good to see cross-parliamentary support on this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe bill was introduced by the Hon Lianne Dalziel in the previous Labour Government in July 2008 and had its first reading on 1 April last year. As members have heard, it was reported back to the House in September last year, but it has taken long to get to this point, which my colleague Charles Chauvel spoke about with some regret. The bill addresses a number of problems with the Privacy Act, which I will spell out quickly. But along with the launch of the Law Commission\u2019s review of privacy, an action by the previous Labour Government, this bill was part of Labour\u2019s efforts to update and strengthen privacy law in New Zealand, which is very important and significant. Ultimately, this is a Labour bill; therefore, of course we support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EMembers have heard about the two flaws that this bill essentially attempts to correct. The first concerns the increasing flow of people and information across borders and the privacy issues that surround that. The first amendment is in relation to the Privacy Act 1993 and introduces new provisions that deal with the cross-border transfer of personal data. To complement those changes, the bill includes new provisions that facilitate the cross-border enforcement of privacy laws. That means that the legislation will reduce the likelihood of New Zealand being used as an intermediary for the avoidance of other States\u2019 privacy laws. The Privacy Act as it stands does not allow foreign nationals resident overseas to make information privacy requests, and, further, nothing in the Act prevents data received overseas from being transferred outside New Zealand to a jurisdiction that does not have adequate privacy protection. That means that New Zealand is unable to provide the assurance requested by our overseas trade partners that we can fully protect their privacy and their customers\u2019 privacy. We have had that issue quite well canvassed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAs we have heard, the Law Commission is undertaking a review of privacy values, technology change, and international trends and their implication for New Zealand law. In February this year a report was issued titled Invasion of Privacy: Penalties and Remedies, which complements the bill that is before us today. The commission found that New Zealand\u2019s privacy laws\u2014in particular, those relating to surveillance\u2014are patchy. I will talk a little about those laws and then provide the House with a case study that shows the importance of businesses keeping their information secure. The commission recommended in that report to enact legislation on surveillance devices in order to make New Zealand\u2019s privacy laws more consistent and make it an offence to secretly film or track people. When speaking to the release of the report, Invasion of Privacy: Penalties and Remedies, Sir Geoffrey Palmer, the president of the Law Commission, said that our laws on that are currently very patchy. He said that technology is moving so fast and we need to ensure that our privacy is properly protected, which is a given. As he pointed out, it is an offence to record a private conversation and get unauthorised access to someone\u2019s computer but it is not an offence to secretly film someone or use a device to track someone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe Law Commission\u2019s report recommended some law changes to fill those gaps. It recommended that it should be an offence to trespass on someone\u2019s property to install a surveillance device, to film inside someone\u2019s dwelling without that person\u2019s consent, and to install or to use a tracking device to track someone without that person\u2019s consent. As Sir Geoffrey said, the police need to get a warrant to do most of those things, and it seems bizarre that the law does not prohibit other people doing them here. He noted that several Australian states now have similar laws. That report is very interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIn terms of information and the issue of transferring data across borders and the importance of business keeping information secure\u2014and my colleague in the M\u0101ori Party has mentioned issues around credit cards and identity theft, and those sorts of things\u2014I refer to this particular case study of DoubleClick, a US online advertising company. In 2000 it found out the hard way what happens when a company gets its privacy practices wrong. DoubleClick decided it would match the personal information of people it had anonymously profiled online with identifying personal information collected offline by Abacus Data, an aggregator of mail-order buyer information that DoubleClick had bought. Not surprisingly, that caused a backlash among web users and people who had bought items through mail-order catalogues, which drew the attention of the US Federal Trade Commission. That led to lawsuits, and saw the dramatic drop in DoubleClick\u2019s share price from US$135 a share to around the mid-thirty dollars within 6 months. A year later the company dropped plans to merge the data, settled all of its lawsuits, agreeing to pay $1.8 million in legal costs. It agreed to purge its databases and conduct an online privacy education campaign. When the company was sold in 2005 the share price was $8.50 a share. It had gone from $135 a share to $8.50 a share. There was no suggestion that the mishandling of privacy was the only reason for the dramatic fall in share price, but it was certainly a factor. I think that was the point that my colleague Charles Chauvel made\u2014the importance of business being able to function effectively in this environment is very important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIn summary, the Justice and Electoral Committee\u2019s main concern on this bill related to the OECD guidelines. Due to the way that the guidelines were incorporated into the bill, any changes by the OECD to the guidelines would have been automatically incorporated into legislation, which would result in changes to the statutory framework of the Privacy Act without examination by Parliament. So the committee recommended that the basic principles of national application be set out in a schedule and that the Governor-General be given the power to make regulations to amend that new schedule to reflect changes made to those guidelines. Those amendments to the new schedule will be subject to the Regulations (Disallowance) Act 1989, so will be scrutinised by Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe committee also recommended that it be made explicit in the bill that when determining whether to prohibit a transfer of personal information, the Privacy Commissioner may use the investigative powers in the Privacy Act, just as the commissioner can when conducting an inquiry under the Act. That would allow the commissioner to hear information from any person that he or she considered necessary. The committee received and considered two submissions from interested groups and individuals and heard one, as well as received advice, from the Ministry of Justice. So for those reasons and on the recommendation of the Justice and Electoral Committee, again acknowledging the work done by my colleague the Hon Lianne Dalziel and the bill being brought into Parliament by Labour originally, Labour will be supporting this bill to the stage of the third reading debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u00222404869f97ca4720b199dd016793336d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222404869f97ca4720b199dd016793336d\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E The Privacy (Cross-border Information) Amendment Bill is a step towards giving confidence to both national and international businesses that any personal information held in New Zealand will be protected. The bill amends the Privacy Act 1993. The intention of this bill is to prevent any information coming to New Zealand from being diverted unlawfully to any other part of the world. In today\u2019s fast-moving world, where technology has made it possible for information to travel at phenomenal speed, this Government needs to assure businesses in New Zealand that any personal information between themselves and their international partners will be protected with the full force of the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe National Government recognised that in today\u2019s competitive world we need tools and protection to guarantee to clients that their interests are protected when they are dealing with New Zealand businesses. These types of assurances can provide confidence to overseas clients dealing with New Zealand businesses. The amendments to the Privacy Act will increase competitive advantage for our trade between New Zealand and the European Union, in particular, and other trade partners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe Privacy Commissioner and the Law Commission agreed to these amendments. The bill authorises the Privacy Commissioner to prohibit the transfer of personal information outside New Zealand where the information is being routed through New Zealand to avoid the privacy law of originating countries. Clauses in the bill authorise the Privacy Commissioner to prohibit the transfer of personal information from New Zealand to another State if the commissioner is satisfied on reasonable grounds that the information will not be subject to comparable safeguards to the Privacy Act, or and would circumvent the law of the State where the information originated. This bill seeks to enhance New Zealand\u2019s opportunity as a trading nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EIt is good to be part of this National Government, which has recognised the need for this bill, which seeks to prevent the malicious acquisition of private information and the use of that information against those who would be identified. This bill ensures that New Zealand\u2019s privacy law meets the expectations of our trading partners by assuring that their privacy will be protected. It will also enable people overseas who are not citizens of New Zealand to access their personal information, which was previously not possible. It is my pleasure to endorse this bill, which enhances the opportunities for New Zealand businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u002233fa58248e2941b3bcb75382ae6ec235\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233fa58248e2941b3bcb75382ae6ec235\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to speak in favour of the Privacy (Cross-border Information) Amendment Bill in its second reading. This bill is obviously an amendment to the Privacy Act. It is primarily about the cross-border transfer of data and is aimed at preventing New Zealand from being used as an intermediary for the circumvention of other country\u2019s privacy laws. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThis bill was introduced by the Hon Lianne Dalziel in 2008. She has had a long interest in the issue of privacy rights. I looked at a previous speech from her in which she talked about the right to privacy as a basic human right. She was part of the Justice and Electoral Committee that, in 1993, dealt with the original Privacy Act. As well as introducing the bill, the previous Labour Government also launched the Law Commission\u2019s review of privacy, which was part of updating privacy law in New Zealand in an effort to strengthen it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EIt is important to note that the House is in urgency today. Although this is a good bill and it is one that we support, it hardly seems to be at the top of the list of important things that we need to be doing for New Zealanders at the moment. It is a little bit like the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill we were discussing this morning\u2014good solid changes, ones we need to make, but hardly urgent. What is more urgent is looking after the interests of New Zealanders who are struggling at the moment, who are struggling to make ends meet, and who are facing ever-increasing costs, including those imposed by this Government through things like increases to GST. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThat the first reading of this bill was in April last year is evidence that it is not really urgent. It has taken all of that time since then to come back here. The first reading was on 1 April 2009. It was referred to the Justice and Electoral Committee, and submissions were due on 14 May 2009. The select committee reported back on 30 September 2009, and here we are, nearly a year later, having the second reading. That does not show that this is a particularly urgent legislative change. While I am talking about the Justice and Electoral Committee, I noted with interest that there were only two submissions on this bill. I assume that that means it is relatively non-controversial. I thought that was quite interesting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI absolutely accept that this bill is important in the current economic environment, and for a country like New Zealand, which is so internationally connected and so reliant on international trade, exporting, and dealing with many other countries. Under the Labour Government New Zealand was at the forefront of building trade relationships and developing trade agreements, so it is important that we deal with an issue that is of concern to business partners overseas. Dealing with it will help us with our international competitiveness. This bill contributes to that aim by ensuring that international business partners can be assured that their customers\u2019 personal information will be protected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EMy colleague Charles Chauvel talked about this legislation being seen as pro-business. But other legislation that is seen as pro-business by this Government is, in fact, very short-sighted and ill-founded in many cases. The examples I will give are the changes in employment legislation, changes like those I referred to earlier today in relation to access to worksites. Those changes may be seen by an ideological few as pro-business, but they are unnecessary and potentially hamper the good organisation of workers so that they can get decent wages, have a strong voice at work, and be part of ensuring that their workplaces are more productive. I consider them to be very anti-business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe Privacy (Cross-border Information) Amendment Bill essentially deals with the cross-border transfer of personal data. It also includes the ability to enforce cross-border provisions in privacy law. That is important so that we are able to take action where there is potential for a breach. It is intended to stop New Zealand being used as an intermediary for the avoidance of other States\u2019 privacy laws by removing current restrictions on who can request private information, enabling public sector agencies to charge for making personal information available to overseas foreign nationals, providing for the referral of cross-border complaints to the appropriate privacy enforcement authority, and establishing a mechanism for controlling the transfer of information outside of New Zealand where the information has been routed through New Zealand to circumvent the privacy laws of the country from where the information originated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe issue of privacy is an important one and the voting will show that. We all recognise that privacy is important. Over time the ability for us to have our privacy undermined has grown as the ability to store and transfer data, and also the surveillance of individuals, has increased. This is the sort of legislation that requires constant consideration. It is a bit like the consumer legislation debated earlier this morning\u2014the Motor Vehicle Sales Amendment Bill. Things change very quickly, so it is timely that we look at this. It would be interesting for people to consider that even in 5 years the flow of information round the world has sped up, and the magnitude of those information flows has increased. Privacy is important, and this legislation both considers whether our legislation is robust enough\u2014and, clearly, we have come to the decision that it is not\u2014and future-proofs our Privacy Act to ensure that we take account of changed circumstances globally. These are the reasons why Labour members are supporting this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EIn an era of increasing globalisation and e-commerce our current inability to give privacy assurances to our trading partners is a potential impediment to trade. One of the particular matters that this bill deals with and that the select committee considered is the European Union\u2019s particularly stringent requirements in relation to this area, and the bill takes that matter into account in its provisions. Getting privacy law right is important for both individuals and for businesses. Businesses have to be able to ensure that the benefits obtained by the use of new technology do not compromise individuals\u2019 expectations for security in the use of personal information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned earlier, this bill complements the Law Commission\u2019s review of privacy laws, and I have to say that there is more work to be done on that. To reinforce the point I made earlier, this is yet another bill that arises from work done by the previous Labour Government. There have been many such bills this week and it will be interesting to see what the Government will do in terms of substantive and positive, forward-looking legislation of its own. The main provisions of the bill provide the Privacy Commissioner with the discretion to prohibit the transfer of personal information from New Zealand to another State if the commissioner is satisfied that that will breach OECD guidelines, for example, governing the protection of privacy, or may circumvent privacy or data protection laws of the State from which it has been, or will be, received. So the Privacy Commissioner gets some new powers in this bill. The commissioner may not prohibit the transfer of information, however, where the transfer is required or authorised by any enactment, convention, or other instrument imposing international obligations on New Zealand. There is a limit to the ability of the commissioner to prohibit transfer in that particular situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003ECurrently, our Privacy Act provides that an individual must be a citizen or permanent resident of New Zealand to make a request under the Privacy Act\u2014that is, a request to obtain confirmation of whether an agency holds personal information, to be given access to personal information, or to correct that personal information. That changes under this bill, which is very important. It removes that residence restriction to enable foreign nationals to access that information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022d30f477a81904572b676e2bd1c5c5344\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d30f477a81904572b676e2bd1c5c5344\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a180cc3457641859b15a7d0cd61e634\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Nice tie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8e9b7662b374cb9a14576ee8af8c483\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I thank the member opposite for the compliment on my nice tie. I agree with him. Actually, his tie is very nice, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIt gives me pleasure to speak on the Privacy (Cross-border Information) Amendment Bill. In particular, I think it is important to speak on this bill because the amendment is designed to ensure that personal data originating overseas and sent to New Zealand is subject to New Zealand\u2019s privacy protections. The bill\u2019s transfer prohibition notice mechanism will ensure that foreign personal data cannot be sent via New Zealand to jurisdictions without adequate privacy protections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWell, that sounds good, but why is it important? I think it was a Green member speaking in the debate earlier who mentioned the European Union, and the difficulties it had had with other countries of the world\u2014namely, the USA. The EU has a data protection directive in place. It was one of the first parts of the world to decide that the protection of individual data, when it crossed borders, was important. Its directive states that when data is sent to a country outside the European Union, that country must have rules in place that will protect that data to the same degree as it would be protected had the data remained within the European Union.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EAfter a number of difficulties in the world\u2014September 11 and other terrorist atrocities\u2014the Americans decided that they wanted to collect additional information on people before those people travelled to their country, and, indeed, at the time they were issuing visas to people who might want to travel to the USA, for whatever purpose. The difficulty was that in deciding that when people travelled from Europe to America, information would need to be shared, it was the view of the European Union that the US data protection rules were not the same as the union\u2019s. Therefore there were many years of discussion about that between the US and the European Union, and I understand that that has been rectified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIt could be that New Zealand will have similar difficulties with the European Union, or with other countries that have very strong legislation on data protection, but this legislation means that guarantees can be given. I think our data protection rules will be the same as those of the European Union and most other countries of the world, and the legislation will mean there will not be any hold-up, as far as trade is concerned, with people travelling to New Zealand, or with information we might share or be required to share with America or anywhere else. For that reason, it is important that we support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI am glad the legislation is about to enter into force very soon. I recognise that members opposite have said that the previous Government introduced this bill to the House. As with many, many other bills that Government introduced, it paid a bit of lip service to it but did not have time to put it through; I am not sure that that Government was very serious about it. But are we not glad we changed Governments, and that the Opposition will be supporting the bill today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI think that the tie of the member opposite cost him more to buy than mine cost me, but it is still a very nice tie. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002291c819ad777a46efad5fc1524a7e3eb5\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3c7bd6875fe454eb895a6d0df2f6040\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3c7bd6875fe454eb895a6d0df2f6040\u0022\u003EHon PANSY WONG (Minister for Ethnic Affairs)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: I move, That the Privacy (Cross-border Information) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20100824ecd492156ad74def8cbaf8570e1fd11e000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002280b11f68-6b57-4b8b-8922-aecd1d471975\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 4.13 p.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"