"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022194530ae16864cdaa6167099d5014dee\u0022\u003EThursday, 11 November 2010\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022db0a539e346d463f960af62b7fbb2817\u0022\u003EThursday, 11 November 2010\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a6d71addfbc3431db9beba501edf07c7\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e6ca79007a0e4169bb5ac67ea3402ca4\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u0022506e1e9f267d42a0a4cb51b8b818e955\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022506e1e9f267d42a0a4cb51b8b818e955\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E When the House resumes next Tuesday the Aquaculture Legislation Amendment Bill (No 3) will receive its first reading and the Rugby World Cup 2011 (Empowering) Bill will receive its third reading. The House will take urgency from Tuesday evening onwards to consider a range of bills that have been recently notified to all parties. The Government intends to take questions each day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u002264c71fa093cd4767a1c2f325d09a3cb3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264c71fa093cd4767a1c2f325d09a3cb3\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I convey our thanks to the Leader of the House for the suggested bills for next week. I was going to clarify with him the issue of question time, but the Deputy Leader of the House has done that. I am sure that will be of great interest to the 36 first-year M\u0101ori nursing students from Whitireia Community Polytechnic who are visiting Parliament today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef30239cc7f747df85605aba1f26448a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef30239cc7f747df85605aba1f26448a\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I am sure you are right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227116409f08e445cdb88603948ac42867\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure whether the Speaker should be involved in that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4f170df2b8d45119f4ed2269ca6799c\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure the member is right\u2014my apologies, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a0951b51a9384d8693ed22c263719b2f\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f3ee2ae4fbc74186922da4cd9a746f20\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002201c436cc0acb4206aac4ae62721412e6\u0022\u003EPolice\u2014Numbers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00229eb30bc82e8a4ddcaae0968dcba98304\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229eb30bc82e8a4ddcaae0968dcba98304\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does she stand by all statements she has made in relation to increasing the number of police; if so, how does she reconcile her statements with police projections that eight out of 12 police districts will have fewer constabulary employees by the end of 2011 than they had at the end of June 2009?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00226fe11742ccf943e5acc250198778541a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fe11742ccf943e5acc250198778541a\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I stand by all the statements I have made. This Government is committed to putting 600 extra police officers on the front line throughout New Zealand. We have already reached our goal of putting an extra 300 officers into Counties-Manukau. In relation to the figures raised by the member, in June 2009, 11 of our 12 police districts exceeded their staff target levels. Across the country there were 83 more officers than were funded by the previous Budget. The reason for that is that the number of police officers leaving the force has dropped to its lowest level since World War II. The numbers are now moving to the funded level, and we are on target to put 600 extra police on the front line by the end of next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266c361e7306444e1b6c6e151035f4b5c\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a data table prepared by the New Zealand Police on 16 June 2010, showing that eight out of the 12 police districts will have fewer constabulary staff by the end of 2011 than they had at the end of June 2009.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef11039acbb04595a78a6ba27ab571c5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c53e4642-d448-4d84-abfe-0443fe24aae9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208d29a237d744710b9651323152ca8ce\u0022\u003EHilary Calvert\u003C/span\u003E: How does she expect to ever have sufficient police, when the local police force struggled to cope with illegal occupations in Taip\u0101 Bay and Papa Aroha, and when Ministers are heightening M\u0101ori expectations about the foreshore and seabed, and then, in the case of Minister Finlayson, telling the locals that occupations are a criminal matter and that they should call the police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b34d8a4076de49c995ff73edf0951974\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: The matter of the Taip\u0101 Bay occupation, I understand, was dealt with very well by the police yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d3d578d17ea4c09b5bd95f4f3b26176\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement of 29 October 2010 that \u201CNothing deters criminals like plenty of Police on the beat.\u201D; if so, does she believe that the fact that the Wellington Police District will have 46 fewer police by the end of next year compared with June 2009 will actually make life easier for criminals, and less so for law-abiding Wellingtonians?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5453cdfe031423ab886bdca184d0f58\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes to the first part of the question; and I can tell that member that when his Government left office in November 2008 the figure in Wellington was 789 police officers. That will be exceeded by the end of next year, in accordance with our promise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c53e4642-d448-4d84-abfe-0443fe24aae9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c26e740b0984844ae6d83d2fae7613c\u0022\u003EHilary Calvert\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister consider it to be acceptable that police resources and numbers are stretched by Ministers declaring that what are clearly political problems, such as the Taip\u0101 Bay occupation, are merely policing issues?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fba770fc337341e2a4f52e36d005a305\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: The police make their own decisions on matters like Taip\u0101 Bay, and certainly I\u2014and Ministers that I am aware of\u2014have made no decisions about that. The police considered this to be a matter that they should be involved with, and I think that they have dealt with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224549eea8cf7f4f4ba3b4873a5e7af90a\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement of 20 May 2010 that \u201COur top priority has been to increase the number of officers on the beat in our neighbourhoods,\u201D; if so, what does she believe that Aucklanders, who will have 32 fewer police at the end of next year than they had at the end of June 2009 in the Auckland police district, will think about the way that she has prioritised their needs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229922bc004bee402d88c1cee9aa9eb8c5\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I believe Aucklanders will be very pleased that when this Government came to office they had 703 officers, and that at the end of next year they will have 712 officers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbfd9cd30b314a5bab418c0ccf76307e\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement of 3 July 2009 that \u201CIncreasing the numbers of police will not only make police more visible and better able to respond to crime, but will be an opportunity\u201D to model better ways of policing; if so, how does she expect the police in the Southern Police District, which will have 22 fewer police at the end of 2011 than there were in June 2009, to be able to demonstrate better policing methods to people living in that district?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c33bf558b344a488cdab38fa1ea5db0\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure that the people of the southern region will be thrilled to know that under this Government their police will in fact increase from 558 officers to 565 officers. Actually, that is an increase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca2c8a6159ce4b8ca6e7f4c987a5bc78\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement of 12 December 2008 that \u201CNew Zealand police are being stretched too thin,\u201D; if so, how much thinner is she willing to see the Waikato Police District be stretched, considering that papers prepared by her own department show that it will have 18 fewer police at the end of 2011 than there were in June 2009?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a397933be5b041a3a955b6725b6e205f\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I am fully aware that Waikato is due, under the commissioner\u2019s decision, to get further police resources. I note that when this Government came into office Waikato had 573 officers. At the end of next year it will have 598 officers. Even that member should be able to work out that that is an increase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272463cec3a0a4d25adaf185d5970fe81\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: How does she reconcile her statements about increasing resources for the police with the reality reported in the September Police Association newsletter that, for example, in the words of Sergeant Kevin Stewart, the police are \u201Cattending fewer jobs due to workload and a lack of staff\u201D and that, in the words of several other police shift supervisors, the police see \u201Ca lack of numbers on the beat as compromising safety for frontline officers.\u201D\u2014how does she respond to those front-line officers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f311dcebf06241cfb44bb61eb5cad763\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I would respond in this way. The previous Government took 4 years to trial the Taser. This Government came into office and got 720 Tasers out there on the front line, keeping our staff safe. I can also say this Government is putting in 600 extra police, and with anyone\u2019s maths that is an increase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb39c8cfde624dcba41322c6fba51953\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a data set prepared by the New Zealand Police, which shows that the third tranche of additional police promised and funded by the previous Labour Government came into force by the end of the 2008-09 financial year\u2014the date that we are comparing against.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297d68f9693014808b4bedd5900c2e9c5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224e08d88832d4c88a06c795418e5c9b4\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table page 5 of a paper prepared by the office of the Auditor-General on 16 June 2010, which quotes: \u201CVote Police was reduced by $20 million in 2009/10 as a result of line by line review of expenditure\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229c9918e86dd451089ff3ceba45ab3bc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ad4139a0f584227837c6cdbc0e83b1d\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210ffbea05e704548a64f078e39f96bcb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is being sought to table a document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226347866b82794da9ba7c4b6bd8f1eb0a\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: It is a clarification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224270780745c64453b066cce63c11291d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear the member in the interest of progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228139533f31a747f4a8d9954047c1c0b4\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Is that a select committee document as part of the financial reviews?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260b7ec97a70548f585fbe48f54bc7501\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We need to be little careful here. If that was advice to a select committee that has not reported yet, then that would be confidential to the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244a6c1088f874446820b34825448fbf0\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This advice was noted in the transcript in public session, and it is on the record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cceeddbd176545e98ad27eae5f63c7a7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If it is on the record in public\u2014[Interruption] An interesting point has been raised, so I will hear Craig Foss.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222360c1b340e641698f17744cbb24a293\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Regardless of the fact that it was mentioned or not in public session, as I understand it, if that document is confidential to the committee, then it is a committee document. It is outside the Standing Orders to refer to it in public anyway, and it seems that the member intends to breach the Standing Orders by breaching the confidence of the committee. Until a report comes to the House about that annual report, then that is a committee document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1c02ef8e83c4f0fac93a45cbe675268\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, a very interesting issue has arisen. I accept that absolutely. I am a little loath to rule on it without checking further, so probably what I am best advised to do is to take the member\u2019s word and leave it to the wisdom of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022263c890f8c984e71b6845e7a4bca1c13\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Can I assist you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216376d97bb394e41b3195328ad9d3ace\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What I will do, I say to the Hon Clayton Cosgrove, is to put the leave, and leave it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ac8dd4625a74e57a16a8c418430897f\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I can assist you, seriously. This is not a financial review. This is advice regarding the estimates, which was in public session. The advice was in public session and the quote was noted in public session.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb63c800fe4c41afa32f6dc0d03bfb52\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the estimates have indeed been reported back to the House, then that seems to resolve that issue. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002267a8b2a782a3480592e9d2acec015f50\u0022\u003EEconomy, Rebalancing\u2014Measures\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022200c1b4686604b39aef4d6831659349c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022200c1b4686604b39aef4d6831659349c\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What steps is the Government taking to tilt the economy towards exports and savings and away from borrowing and consumption?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c196a429d9f84d7495d46a84a9781264\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c196a429d9f84d7495d46a84a9781264\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is taking several important steps. Firstly, we have introduced significant tax reforms that reward work, savings, and investment, and that discourage borrowing, consumption, and property speculation. Secondly, we are getting the Government\u2019s books in order so that the Government, which is the least productive part of the economy, reduces its call on resources from the rest of the economy, and this will help in the long run to keep interest rates lower than they otherwise would be. Thirdly, we are reviewing extensively the regulation that applies to the export sector. Fourthly, we are pursuing free-trade agreements that will deliver significant benefits to New Zealand, having recently signed agreements with Malaysia, Hong Kong, and ASEAN, and we are in talks with India, the Gulf States, and the trans-Pacific partnership countries, Korea and Russia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222db0e30460ab44f881d09991198096a5\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: What progress is being made in tilting the economy towards exports and savings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222c3a691c9be49829fbcbcbec8a95420\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There are some welcome signs of progress, although there are some headwinds. For example, households are being careful with their money, they are not spending up significantly, and they are reducing debt. There are signs that the housing market is, at the least, moving sideways and people are not rushing back into property speculation. On the other hand, the high exchange rate against the US dollar is offsetting some of the benefits of the very high commodity prices. I note that the Governor of the Reserve Bank said yesterday that households and businesses are keeping spending low as they reduce debt, and when this is combined with improved export and commodity prices, it is reducing New Zealand\u2019s current account deficit and external indebtedness, which are chronic problems that have built up over the last 10 years under the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed85d55d6404497e81b950c408949b25\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: What challenges does New Zealand face as the economy rebalances towards exports and savings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a65d75a0c95041ad97e46a7a180742de\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I think there are a couple of challenges. One is obviously the high exchange rate against the US dollar, although I might say that the exchange rate against the Australian dollar\u2014and Australia is our biggest trading partner\u2014is at its lowest in 15 years, and this is considerably assisting our manufacturing exporters. I think the other big challenge is simply to get government in order. Government represents too big a call on the resources of the economy. Effectively, waste in government is a tax on the export sector, and because such a poor job was done of managing government in the last decade, we have a big challenge to sort it out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eac450dc414f4074af8152cbf56f6250\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: What are some of the costs and risks of currency intervention?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022566e100e8a994ad4922b6b8e54fd0a28\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There has been some speculation about currency intervention. This Government is continuing the policy of the last Government\u2014that is, it supports the Reserve Bank having authority to intervene. The Reserve Bank has publicly set out the criteria that it thinks should apply before it intervenes. However, we share the view of the Governor of the Reserve Bank that there is little evidence that currency intervention works other than in the short term. For instance, large-scale intervention by the Bank of Japan and the Swiss National Bank in the last few months have had only a transitory effect. Most Governments and central banks share our caution about the considerable risks to taxpayers from extensive currency speculation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253bc30ee9ffe4502a326b6679d5c709a\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen criticism of his rebalancing of the economy by borrowing for tax cuts and increasing Government debt, and why does he deny that he is doing that, given Fran O\u2019Sullivan\u2019s critique, which asks: \u201Cis there any point borrowing more to fund tax cuts if taxpayers simply use the extra to retire personal debt?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bd57d2f91ea4aa684eb3bdccbee34c0\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have seen almost no criticism of the Government\u2019s plan to rebalance the economy, and that is because almost all New Zealanders understand the need for it. They are doing exactly the same things themselves. We are being careful with spending; they are being careful with their spending. They are paying off debt; we are trying to constrain the rise in debt. They are focusing on being able to earn more, and that is exactly what New Zealand as a nation needs to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3dd79c4c188438e9ca95f650a9c56a0\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister not promote the fact that his rebalancing of the economy through income tax gives 42 percent of those cuts to the top 10 percent of earners, in reality meaning that low and middle income earners pay a higher proportion of total taxes in New Zealand, while high-income earners pay a lower proportion of total taxation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b841fa4dd78444bb9006eb85450f5fb4\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I am not promoting that, because it is not correct. In fact, the Government cut tax rates across the board and produced extensive analysis after the Budget to show that the tax cuts were fair in the sense that all income groups got about the same change in their net after-tax income. No one has disagreed with the fundamental push of the tax changes, which are to discourage consumption and excessive debt and housing speculation, and encourage exports, savings, and investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d358b7f9f3a44f2b021eff19ad57278\u0022\u003ERoading, State Highway 1\u2014Information Release and Consultation Period\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u00223eefd6815bfc4a11832a0d2ce0d3fb99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223eefd6815bfc4a11832a0d2ce0d3fb99\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: When will the New Zealand Transport Agency announce a new date for releasing information about the new State Highway 1 through Kapiti, and how long will the consultation period run for?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u002242a44b264de94eb3bd73ee9b7a5ded96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242a44b264de94eb3bd73ee9b7a5ded96\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I am advised that updated consultation materials for the MacKays to Peka Peka Expressway will be considered by a New Zealand Transport Agency board committee at its regular scheduled meeting on 18 November. Should that consultation material be approved, I understand that an announcement will be made by the New Zealand Transport Agency after that date advising the timetable for consultation, including the period that consultation will be open. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1e74b0a252742549ddc5939776ce9fd\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am sorry, but I missed the last sentence of the Minister\u2019s answer, about the length of the consultation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afdb3dc9bd5643e0b0c2546d6356b78d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will ask the Minister to assist us, but the member might note that it was his own front-bench colleagues who were making the noise that prevented him from hearing it. Could the Minister please assist us with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022268ac8db3f75416183bac8a172f5b76c\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, on the basis that the Opposition will actually listen. The announcement will be made by the New Zealand Transport Agency\u2014actually, I will repeat the full sentence. Should that consultation material be approved, I understand that an announcement will be made by the New Zealand Transport Agency after that date advising the timetable for consultation, including the period that consultation will be open.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248848ee31c8544e9b04c1d2c406b7601\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: When he took the unusual step of calling both the chair and the chief executive of the agency on a Saturday to discuss delaying a publicly notified consultation due to start the following week, did any aspect of the conversation touch on when that consultation could start?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d62f2d5698214675921700ff23c9ef2b\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I reject at the outset the assertion of that supplementary question that it was an unusual step for me to be working on a Saturday and talking to people involved in my portfolio, which is something that I do all the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022346434e0d6564e7a8e5457c214e0d878\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think that is a flippant answer to my question. I was not being insulting by saying that it was unusual; I would not have thought that contact on a matter like this would take place on a non-business day. There was nothing loaded in the word \u201Cunusual\u201D, and if that is what caused the Minister offence, then I will take that word out so that he can get on with the substance of my question. That was not a political attack on him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f7275aa75b441b5b7656ea82e76fc2e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member has more supplementary questions. The way he shaped the question, it started out: \u201CWhen the Minister spoke to some people on Saturday \u2026\u201D. I feel that I cannot ask the Minister to answer any differently, because that is not really starting the question. If the member had structured the question the other way round, he might have got further. He has more supplementary questions and I think he should use them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262effa8240f3455f97a6adf42c8a7366\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: If the further refinements that the New Zealand Transport Agency is working on are not in the Mana electorate, as he asserted yesterday during question time, why then will he not ask the agency to release the part of the route that is in Mana, so that the voters in that area know what to expect before they go to the polls on 20 November?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022945de73cbd6a4c8dbc7c28171727c51b\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I am confused. On the one hand, the member seems to criticise me for trying to have an involvement in New Zealand Transport Agency decisions, and on the other hand he is asking me to tell it what to do next. He really needs to decide what he expects of the Minister with regard to the New Zealand Transport Agency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022740c5cd9592c4302a7ab81b6977c3827\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Surely the Minister is responsible for giving an answer to the House, not for questioning what my motives are in asking the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221960f5db19ea4f19b176609c17430ecb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think\u2014[Interruption] I ask whether the Minister is quite finished. I think the questioner on this occasion has a legitimate grievance. Although there are issues over what the Minister can do with regard to the Transport Agency, the question was not unreasonable. I think it might be appropriate to let the member repeat his question, just to make sure that it has been treated reasonably fairly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a29fa56406414344acac23caecd87fed\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: If the further refinements that the New Zealand Transport Agency is working on are not in the Mana electorate, as he asserted yesterday during question time, then why, if he has had nothing to do with the original decision, will he not ask the agency to release the part of the route that is in the Mana electorate, so that those voters know what to expect before they go to the polls on 20 November?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be48756abb1f4c499226c36fe388cbe2\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I still have trouble with the question. On the one hand the member is insinuating that I am suggesting that there would be some involvement in the political cycle, but now he is suggesting that I get involved because of the political cycle and ask the New Zealand Transport Agency to do something that it is not yet prepared to do. I have a problem with that. I think the agency should get the consultation material together as quickly as possible and provide as much certainty to people as it can, but it should not be cognisant of the political cycle and the Mana by-election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213bb691ff1be45da9f053e69257e2166\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Further to the Minister\u2019s reply that the committee will meet on 18 November and then release information after that for consultation, does he think it is fair that if the standard 6-week consultation period is chosen, that will mean it runs through the Christmas and new year period, and is it fair that people will have to try to make a submission on such an important matter during the Christmas and new year holiday period?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea21cb6fe3934f658110a9c43d8c5e26\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure that is a fair point for the member to make, and I am sure the board committee will take into account the timetabling of the consultation relative to the Christmas period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aeb6d42c7404fb68b0131506c25de1b\u0022\u003EHon Darren Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: When the New Zealand Transport Agency announced on 2 November that the consultation it had spent $22,000 on inviting people to for 7 November was suspended to \u201Cfurther refine \u2026 proposals\u201D, was it only the location of the motorway by the urup\u0101 that required refinement, or was it other locations along the road, as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022497ddb5c2bdc463dac50374d426cbaab\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: My clear understanding is that the focus of the change was on insufficient detail on a section of the road towards the northern end of the alignment, which, if consulted on as it stood, would leave too much uncertainty for local residents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223f5b2bf2276f41f6aba1b1fac8511db2\u0022\u003EEconomy, Sustainable\u2014Cleantech and Greentech Businesses\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022 data-id=\u0022970c41fc27334a4f8e5410696f906513\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022970c41fc27334a4f8e5410696f906513\u0022\u003EDr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree that a more sustainable economy is preferable to a less sustainable economy; if so, what measures has he taken to specifically promote cleantech and greentech businesses in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002291b15a85ef0b48fe93a3da9f5182e715\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291b15a85ef0b48fe93a3da9f5182e715\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E As I said yesterday, it is important that the economic recovery and new jobs and growth are all sustainable, and not built on unsustainable Government spending and housing speculation, which were the hallmarks of the last decade. It is also important that we balance our economic opportunities with our environmental objectives, and in that context the Government has put in place several measures to promote clean-technology businesses. The most significant is the amended emissions trading scheme, which puts the right incentives in place for all households and businesses that are using carbon-based energy to use clean technology. The Government has also put in place the waste levy, which I understand the member\u2019s party lobbied for when it was in support of the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273632d61150d4072aae3c04b6a2416b3\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: When he announced in his Budget $321 million worth of expenditure in research and development, why did he not target even a fraction of that spend on greentech and cleantech industries such as renewable energies, sustainable agriculture, greentech manufacturing, and energy efficiency?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bf9548684c2410ca9a0cc5289cfc0c5\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member is right that the Government process has the opportunity to do that. The matter of priorities is determined largely by the Foundation for Research, Science and Technology, and it is my general understanding that significant projects across the science community are focused on those things. But now that the member raises the issue, I will have a chat to my colleague the Minister of Research, Science and Technology just to get more detailed information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fb2094380f64a7989b7fd1865f63766\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: Interpreting the Minister\u2019s response to the primary question, that he believes a more or less sustainable economy is preferable, why did he cut funding to the Organic Advisory Programme and the Sustainable Business Network, which are two organisations that are leading in their own fields the greentech, cleantech economic shift?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d7cd7d634b64126bb6c7e7f5f103633\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: We take a general approach rather than highly specific interventions and funding arrangements that can easily be the subject of political fashion. We have put in place the amended emissions trading system, which has a blanket impact across the whole economy, and in my experience it is leading to everybody, from aluminium smelters to tomato growers, trying to work out how to run more efficient production systems. We have gone for an impact across the whole economy rather than highly selective ones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265bfe8a646b74e638842fedcf3554e6c\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: Does he then accept that by introducing, through blanket impact, a full carbon price on electricity we will encourage the production of low-carbon electricity, such as wind, geothermal, and potentially tidal; if so, will he commit to ensuring that the electricity sector pays a full price on carbon, with protection for low-income households?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f182c89ce3c49c19a5d1a1decd82df7\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has set out a path for the carbon price and we believe it is a sensible one, particularly given the significant recession the economy has had. I think the member raises a reasonable issue that one of the constraints on moving to a full carbon price would be the impact on low-income households. I might say that there are signs of success. The mix of energy has moved significantly in favour of new renewable energy sources, whereas under the previous Government, for all its good intent, the non-renewable proportion of energy rose quite dramatically.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d323e910e0ee4f95a9ca60cb684014de\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with business leaders, such as Rob Fenwick, Rob Fyfe, Jeremy Moon, Sir George Fistonich, Sir Stephen Tindall, Phillip Mills, and Geoff Ross, who see clean technology as an economic opportunity for New Zealand, rather than seeing it as a cost?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282b74702ea734370a4636c3786325f91\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I think the answer to that is probably yes. I have been involved in discussion with a number of those individuals as, I think, a number of other Ministers have. I think we need to be a bit careful not to \u201Csloganise\u201D this next-generation environmental fashion. The fact is that the emissions trading system, which I know the member supports, will have a pretty significant impact on the pressure for all businesses and households to work out more efficient ways of using non-renewable energy and swing more to cheaper, renewable energy sources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ca91f3057a54c4799a84d32f242d54b\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: With regard to the list of business leaders I gave earlier, does he agree that clean technology is an opportunity to achieve the kind of knowledge-led economy about which there has been enormous talk over many years while at the same time improving our environment and enhancing our clean, green image, and does he agree that that requires more focused attention than a broad price signal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bffa01420bd141c4a92e9b5576f21b98\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I think I would probably agree with the member\u2019s first statement. In respect of his second statement, I would not say that we need more focus than a broad price signal. I think there is a broad price signal out there, which we all agree is the right kind of signal, although we probably disagree on how strong that signal should be at the moment. But these kinds of discussions would be in addition to that broad price signal, not a replacement for it. We are interested in hearing about any entrepreneurial or innovative ideas people have, particularly about the use of public resources to achieve those ends.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227114561ab821454495f23ac372e4d8e3\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that the economy to some extent has been based on the premise of simply mining more, farming more, and consuming more, that we need to make the transition to a greentech, high-tech solution, both for economic and environmental reasons, and that although the beginnings of a price signal around the emissions trading scheme is a start, it will require more effort from the Government to make that transition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7c897d1582d4d41b96dc12a1dd6cd81\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I do not agree with the member\u2019s first statement. I do not agree with the analysis that New Zealand\u2019s economic growth has all been based on the unsustainable exploitation of resources. Our fundamental resource is soil and its productive capacity, and the New Zealand farming industry has shown an extraordinary capacity to sustain the productive capacity of our soils, our grasses, and our forests over 150 years. So I think we already know a lot about sustainable production systems, but, of course, technology can help us add to its productive capacity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002248b7649c94034fdeb2e1aaa5e2525c6c\u0022\u003EMinerals, Nationalised\u2014Mining on M\u0101ori-owned Land\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022061f64515a4540b59446c1aa9ab9345d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022061f64515a4540b59446c1aa9ab9345d\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour\u2014Hauraki-Waikato)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: Did he give an undertaking to the Iwi Leadership Group that he would revisit Government policy on nationalised minerals if M\u0101ori considered granting consent to mining on M\u0101ori-owned land?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022edb6b9ff682b4c659b6483e0701b11d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edb6b9ff682b4c659b6483e0701b11d7\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Energy and Resources: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c253d785fdd04b11b1b4100c8c6fe584\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Minister engaged with the Iwi Leadership Group on mining interests on M\u0101ori land but not consulted in good faith with iwi leaders on petroleum exploration permits like those for Rauk\u016Bmara and Reinga, or is consultation something he engages in only when iwi have something he wants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f440b06b9cc9495d8fa995f832fa38bd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister hear the whole question? I must confess I did not hear the start of the question. But if the Minister heard it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022530fa1d9499542d28fead49680edff94\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Now that the Speaker has interrupted the flow, I have forgotten the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3032d7fa0f64d9993f4c69344998663\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry. I asked the member because I missed the start of the question because of interjections on my left.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224713ebd191394d389196f76f6a0a4b22\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Minister engaged with the Iwi Leadership Group on mining interests on M\u0101ori land but not consulted in good faith with iwi leaders on petroleum exploration permits like those for Rauk\u016Bmara and Reinga, or is consultation something he engages in only when iwi have something he wants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d85285e0a0e14908b433232e763a6933\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Iwi leaders, in our experience, have the same interests around mining as every other New Zealander. Some of them would like to proceed with mining, because they are landowners or they want new jobs. Others are opposed to it, because they believe it has a negative environmental impact. In respect of the second statement, the Minister, I understand, is heading to the East Coast to consult about the permits the member referred to. Of course he will consult with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022165d3ce076384c5f887cacab90829db1\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Given that response, did the Minister give an undertaking to the Iwi Leadership Group to amend the existing Ministry of Economic Development consultation process with M\u0101ori on mining applications, in order to prevent a repeat of the Rauk\u016Bmara and Reinga basins consultation debacle?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e030701628f641e4979146e3fca2d9b4\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot answer specifically about whether he has made an undertaking. But, certainly, it is the Government\u2019s intent to follow the same kind of process with iwi as with any other New Zealanders\u2014that is, to be transparent about where the Government is headed and to make sure their views are heard and taken into account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022108f689a254446959022a45bef099af2\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister give an undertaking to the Iwi Leadership Group that he would amend Government policy or the Crown Minerals Act to make certain the nature and the extent of M\u0101ori interests in new, non-nationalised mineral resources?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022556d4c2b42f747f785cd6f4970689521\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I cannot answer specifically about what the Minister may have said, but the Government does have an interest in ensuring that for all participants in the resources stake there is certainty about rights, obligations, and processes. Iwi have as much interest in that certainty as every other New Zealander.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205849661f61c48fab13d12d5356a78c1\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen the comments on mining from Mark Solomon, chair of both Ng\u0101i Tahu and the Iwi Leadership Group, that it is about getting all the best information one can and acting responsibly as kaitiaki for protecting the land, and what processes has he established to ensure iwi will be informed about Government policy on Crown minerals, moving into the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afec4c7c9016492c875fa571be62042d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have seen those comments from Mr Solomon. I think he is probably still a wee bit focused on having no mining whatsoever, whereas I think there are possibilities in the Ng\u0101i Tahu rohe that would be quite positive, including providing jobs for members of Ng\u0101i Tahu. The Government is talking with iwi leadership about the best process to ensure iwi are well informed about Government policy on minerals and resources and can take iwi views into account. I do not think this will be difficult, because it is a process that we put in place for a whole range of issues that we discuss with iwi from week to week, in the same way as we do with every other New Zealander.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e76e5d810e64623b464b37d38ad325b\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the Iwi Leadership Group was interested in mining opportunities only if it were not at the expense of the environment or contrary to the aspirations of its tribal members?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290f47aed2c3043808eaab7fbf1c5c6f2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I certainly would not want to represent iwi leaders\u2019 views; that is fundamentally their role. But in my experience they are, as owners and managers of significant land and natural resource in New Zealand, well informed and well aware of the trade-offs between environmental protection and the creation of wealth and jobs\u2014which, after all, is of as much interest to iwi in general as it is to the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222ab6d8fba5f14f03b560f1a4ec5532df\u0022\u003EPolice\u2014Public Satisfaction with Services\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u00227f2a2a24c9934295936d2a2c451be6fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f2a2a24c9934295936d2a2c451be6fa\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: What reports has she received on the level of public satisfaction with the services provided by the New Zealand Police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022f31952b907a74597bf175ae9a927caa6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f31952b907a74597bf175ae9a927caa6\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to report that the latest Citizens\u2019 Satisfaction Survey shows a high level of public trust and confidence in the New Zealand Police. The ratings show the percentage of people who have full or quite a lot of trust and confidence in the police has increased over the last 2 years from 69 percent to 75 percent. In addition, the rating of overall satisfaction with service delivery remains high; 79 percent of people who had contact with the police were satisfied or very satisfied with the quality of the service they received.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bc1b07850a04d30b9756764abf4ab58\u0022\u003EKanwaljit Singh Bakshi\u003C/span\u003E: What does the survey indicate about people\u2019s perception of safety in their communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022deac3e61c48e491a99ae9731badf9979\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: People\u2019s perception of safety in their neighbourhood, city, or town centre has improved since 2008. The rating for safety in the neighbourhood after dark has increased from 65 percent to 70 percent. There has also been an increase in the proportion of people feeling safe or very safe in their city or town centre after dark, from 42 percent to 48 percent. The results of the survey reflect the ongoing effort and commitment of police staff around the country to provide the best possible service to their communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222933d99e5b82426593e942d74dad1703\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Why should not the public of New Zealand believe Sergeant Sean Judd of Westport, a front-line officer, who said publicly in September of this year: \u201CWe just don\u2019t have the numbers and unfortunately the public have noticed and are not happy. They want to know why we are not out on the beat, and the fact is we would like nothing more, but because we are so under resourced it is just not happening.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022533d5f4c87534d7ea6640b615631bc57\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: It is very difficult when the member comes to the House and quotes a serving officer and names him like that. Quite frankly, that sergeant can know that this Government will put 600 extra police on the front line by the end of next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227be2d947ec364f5ca6e0207090772721\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the September edition\u2014No. 8, Volume 43\u2014of Police News, from which that quote came. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b07df07d52784809a65052fbdd39d72b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. [Interruption] A point of order is being dealt with\u2014the member\u2019s own point of order. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022defd43e9c85d400186c3ff5e2b5fc3a0\u0022\u003EEducation, National Standards\u2014Dismissal of Trustee Boards\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022 data-id=\u00229a4cbad44524439ea6339de8d76096dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a4cbad44524439ea6339de8d76096dd\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS CARTER (Independent\u2014Te Atat\u016B)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does she stand by her assurance to the House on 9 November 2010 that it was never her intention to dismiss boards of trustees of primary and intermediate schools who refuse to implement her national standards policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022077d0165a0bc4172af4cea0a81c49703\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022077d0165a0bc4172af4cea0a81c49703\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Education: Yes. A formal process is in place to ensure that schools have the support they need to implement national standards, and that is before any consideration is given to possible further steps.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0a222f2ff3c43c8a45940605d365feb\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: If it was never her intention to dismiss non-complying boards, as she told my very good friend and former colleague the Hon Trevor Mallard on Tuesday\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8851194472a46048c72854174da03e8\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255ade943db844166b54b75b588bd139f\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: One of my 17 friends\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221996015c16354de2a092bd62c320cf91\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sometimes the Speaker has to admit that the Speaker has lost it, and I have sure lost that one. I think members have had their fun. Please, treat the questioner with respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022878514257db840bd910ce353f4834e47\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It reminds me of when I was a teacher during the last period on Fridays. If it was never her intention to dismiss non-complying boards, as she told my good friend and former colleague the Hon Trevor Mallard on Tuesday, why did she respond to a reporter\u2019s question in February of this year by saying that dismissing boards who do not comply was an option?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a63780857064b90889960494a892a4a\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister\u2019s comments in February reflected what the law actually provided for, and that law, of course, was passed under a former Labour Government. As the Minister has made clear, there is an escalation process, which has a number of decision points and opportunities for assisting boards of trustees to implement national standards. This process would contrast with the Labour Party escalation process when it has a problem, which is basically to go from hero to zero. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a4ca625f42b469491965b5b1eda8d3e\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Perhaps you could help me. It seems to me that the answer\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a4006612f494fe4a2757874d7a2e9a1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the member. I say to National Party members, on this occasion, that it is a point of order. Although they may not be impressed, they should treat the House with respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022803042cdf6ee4482a92705788ae9d83a\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: It seems to me that my primary question was quite simple. I asked whether dismissal of non-complying boards was an option. I was told initially that it was not. I have quite good eyesight and the chart the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233026ddb8c1c487193f66ca677f0cf47\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot litigate an answer by way of a point of order. The Minister gave a perfectly clear answer to the question, and the member cannot litigate it by way of point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223aae2c48019d49fa85726e7bfef18c52\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Liz Horgan, principal of St Joseph\u2019s School \u014Ct\u0101huhu, who wrote last week that the actions of more than 200 boards of trustees last week in opposition to the national standards policy demonstrated a growing number of boards who recognise that using guesswork and hopelessly crude methodologies are not a desirable way to run schools or assess pupils; or, indeed, with Professor John Hattie, who said earlier this year that the Minister\u2019s national standards were a hopelessly crude way of raising student achievement? Does she agree with those statements; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca0e72cb2e6d474e980e5eeb325a20e5\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: No, the Minister does not agree with those statements. I am very disappointed that some boards have taken the action that the member refers to. I note that the New Zealand Herald today reports that up to one-third of those schools are actually getting on with implementing national standards. It is disappointing that these schools are participating in a union-driven agenda affecting children\u2019s education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225890d296de74938867fc65378380262\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a copy of the press conference where Mrs Tolley said that dismissal was an option.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbfaa8bf6201464ba78150868dbb8391\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a press statement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8dab29d3f224bf9970ca150faae0b22\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is a transcript from her interview.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262cb1181b92e4dd698bcb9f41bf7e588\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad62906fbe0046f78b766debfe179b96\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter from Liz Horgan, Principal of St Joseph\u2019s School, \u014Ct\u0101huhu, outlining her concerns about national standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229886590fd81a4536baac706d04379dcf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220471e98b5fbf41b98e0a2df678c2ae1f\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f36842f160834c5291ab524b9ccd2167\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is this seeking leave to table another document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022261bf326342d41ceb345c2ef5276f231\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: It is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bb08860994b442dbff61b217e0612a3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the member to just list the documents he wishes to table and give the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225796f11e20924eaf8e41b2a4acf11225\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I would be happy to do that. I thought that you wanted them individually. I seek leave to table a document from Mr John Hattie, professor of education from Waikato University, outlining his concerns about national standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203264d0e8eed4d848000559670b9ee59\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I take it that it is a letter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4506109-be18-4b9d-9a79-1e15e2e2cd41\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f485b046e1004fb0ac88b40c3927165e\u0022\u003EHon Chris Carter\u003C/span\u003E: It is an outline from the New Zealand Herald on his assessment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d44071095e0045ecbf9669b39a7fc9e0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, we will not be seeking leave to table that document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c9ca9652ef3c49dfb9687a16c376b2af\u0022\u003EWaste, Electronic\u2014Recycling\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u0022c87f576be49a42d08c832f0c95e484ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c87f576be49a42d08c832f0c95e484ac\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: How much electronic waste was collected last Saturday with the eDay initiative and what longer-term plan does the Government have for improving recycling of electronic waste?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022043ab06e8530446da96f75b1acf004bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022043ab06e8530446da96f75b1acf004bf\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Last Saturday, eDay, funded by the Government, was very successful. It collected a record 900 tonnes, or 77,000 items, of electronic waste at 53 drop-off points around the country. I particularly acknowledge the thousands of volunteers around New Zealand who assisted with this massive recycling effort. The Government wants to progress from eDay to a year-round culture of recycling electronic waste. We are investing in a programme next year to establish in partnership with community recycling facilities 20 permanent recycling points, as well as recycling facilities in Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d478fe79987c4c10a3a3f40179d94a4e\u0022\u003ENicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: What are the implications of the Government decision to phase out analogue television services in the switch to digital transmission, and has thought been put into dealing with the large volume of old televisions that will be added to the waste stream as a consequence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8265895c1a348a8abb3cfc9c963c9e2\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, this is an issue. Although people will be able to get a digital decoder for older televisions to work, we expect a surge of about 500,000 older TVs being added to the waste stream and they will contain about a thousand tonnes of lead. The Ministry for the Environment and the Ministry of Economic Development have been asked by Cabinet to work on solutions to this issue in parallel with the broader programme of improving New Zealand\u2019s management of electronic waste. A key issue is the capital cost of the equipment to extract the lead from the glass. I have had discussions on this issue with Australian Ministers and we are exploring the possibility of a joint initiative to achieve this recycling at least cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdfd3d62a5124852a4c4f056f45399a2\u0022\u003ENicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: How much has this Government committed to improving the management of electronic waste, and how does this compare with the previous Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224f705ce40ce48beaa526632f3dc584d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: This Government has invested approximately $2.3 million in improving the management of e-waste in 2009 and 2010 as part of our strategy of focusing on those solid wastes that pose the greatest harm. The total amount spent in the previous 9 years was $247,000, or about a tenth of what National has invested in just 2 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224342e4a2663f46bda84bc67721356960\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister update the House on the status of the 966 tonnes of e-waste collected on eDay last year, which, when he last advised the House, was sitting on a wharf in Korea, and which he could not give any undertakings would be recycled?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5a99755e02d412d93d6379dabaaefd9\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: There was a problem in both 2008 and in 2009 with some of the waste that was collected on eDay. Some of that remains, and the Government is letting a contract for the recycling of about 200 tonnes\u2014I do not have the exact figures, but I would be happy to provide the exact tonnage to the member. Effectively, the previous Government grossly underfunded eDay, which meant there were not the funds to be able to professionally deal with the waste. I am pleased that this Government has shown some environmental responsibility and made sure that the job is being done properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c16a0e2061ab4b4b8808ba22100add39\u0022\u003ECharles Chauvel\u003C/span\u003E: When, if ever, will the Minister just get on and approve a product stewardship scheme for e-waste at point of purchase to reduce the 80,000 tonnes of e-waste that is currently deposited every year in landfills by New Zealanders, and why does he not just get on and do that so that every day can be eDay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022060df2bc8eb845f7ab25e3ca90af386c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I am quite open-minded about a stewardship scheme for electronic waste, and it is one of the things that we need to explore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254613d5497894008bc21458c7bb0ab0b\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022204255abd2254cd5a783202f153a96e4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member laughs, but I alert her to the fact that after 9 years in Government, Labour did absolutely nothing about electronic waste. We ran the most successful eDay ever and have a programme for providing 20 recycling depots around the country. The reality is that this Government has made more progress on e-waste in 2 years than Labour made in 9 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229ff87985e4514ad680130b78fc445499\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations Legislation\u2014Minister\u2019s Confidence in Changes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u002209995bded5fc400985b09234b1c66e03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209995bded5fc400985b09234b1c66e03\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: Does she have confidence in all of the changes to employment relations legislation and policy that she has introduced or proposed since becoming the Minister of Labour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u00225f1586b906d2431d9fdaf69597464bf4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f1586b906d2431d9fdaf69597464bf4\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Labour: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210041f7377bb4baea50fc26e5a684088\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister be confident that the changes to the Employment Relations Act and the Holidays Act will help to improve productivity, when the Department of Labour told the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee in its financial review hearing this morning that lots of the changes would be very hard to link directly to improving productivity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b93054df67294474a62bc189c49a1b32\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: It is quite clear when we look at the bill that there are a large number of actions that will help improve the productivity of the New Zealand workforce in their collective interest. I am quite confident about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dab6cf42897a427cb62aabe58d2c9995\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: How can anyone have confidence in the Minister\u2019s commitment to improving skills in the workplace, given that there is not a single mention of the skills forum in the Department of Labour\u2019s 2010 annual report, that she has not held a single meeting of the skills forum this year, despite indicating that there would be five, and that the department confirmed to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee that the decision to hold no skills forum meetings has been entirely hers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022402e7ce403b244a69bca0289d94cd36c\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: It is quite clear in the labour portfolio that this Government is focused on actions, rather than endless meetings, strategies, action plans\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220183556db32f47f186ea26d2599193dc\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Task forces.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed5f7abd0bc644cba3abd3b24ace3256\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014task forces, pilots, and groups. This Government is focused on action, and, certainly, the Hon Kate Wilkinson is an action woman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbead762d2a1431c9cf389148a6ae282\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: How can she be confident that her 90-day trial period scheme will improve productivity and skills, given that we have heard of yet another example today, where a skilled chef was fired under the scheme for using too much sauce and aioli?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f869d0d2d974486aca9f8ca297f3d3f\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: Quite easily.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214c497a3a9104eb6afcef552a60b6eb0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I want to hear the supplementary question, and the level of background noise is too high.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c2a49516ba84b43a1acb8d82f14a382\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Department of Labour confirmed to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee this morning that she is proposing changes to the Minimum Wage Act, can she guarantee that those changes will not disadvantage any minimum wage earner, or result in any workers being entitled to even less pay than they currently earn? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce638eb5b48f4d219894f3bf92054a96\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure the member will become aware of that matter when it is appropriate to make the member aware. I can say that the Minister is focused on providing employees with more choice, and is focused on how we can create more jobs in this economy for the future of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022395cbfb9813742ce8e8467100ebd3602\u0022\u003EBroadband, Wireless\u2014Roll-out to Regional New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u002216b8b1e5cebf46a68c6ceaa763ec3c4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216b8b1e5cebf46a68c6ceaa763ec3c4c\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Communications and Information Technology: What action has the Government taken to help the roll-out of wireless broadband in regional New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0d5b81db6024d6f9d4b495bff6079db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0d5b81db6024d6f9d4b495bff6079db\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Communications and Information Technology):\u003C/span\u003E Further applications were invited on 9 November for access to the Managed Spectrum Park in the 2.5 gigahertz band on a \u201Cfirst come, first served\u201D basis. This follows a previous application process in 2009. This spectrum allocation will improve broadband services to rural New Zealand, which is a priority for the Government. An emerging consensus on the importance of wireless broadband services in rural areas means we will play a vital part in rolling out broadband in those areas where fixed broadband infrastructure can be less economic to deploy and insufficiently flexible\u2014for example, in the farming environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b35a96e155a4ab28600791a7abd81b6\u0022\u003EKatrina Shanks\u003C/span\u003E: What progress is the Government making on the Rural Broadband Initiative?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225284c25b8f5c4a9188da8b1741480897\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Tenders close tomorrow for companies to submit their bids for the Rural Broadband Initiative. I am confident we will achieve our target of 80 percent of rural households and businesses having access to broadband services of 5 megabits per second or better, and the remaining 20 percent on speeds of 1 megabit per second or better, within the 6-year period. I expect the first agreement on providing fast rural broadband to be signed by the end of this year. Rural broadband will greatly help economic development and growth in rural areas, as people in those areas tap into the same Internet speeds currently enjoyed by their urban counterparts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d27433cb0f64daba9046df1978744d3\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: What action has the Government taken to ensure M\u0101ori involvement in the broadband roll-out in the regions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf2b180899014f3e9751d970ec5a7154\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Expectations of community consultation, including with iwi, was part of the request for proposals of the Rural Broadband Initiative. The request for proposal notes that indications of community support, including from iwi, will be one of the criteria used in assessing partners that the Government will choose. M\u0101ori can choose to approach commercial bidders about becoming partners, but, at the very least, M\u0101ori are informed about the broadband developments that will provide better services to their communities. Officials have also liaised with iwi groups, including through face-to-face meetings where appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227d4a405877034194a1b978b16ad16dec\u0022\u003EBroadband, Ultra-fast\u2014Tendering Process\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022a88f064bb28d44b2b8ab86683965a866\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a88f064bb28d44b2b8ab86683965a866\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Communications and Information Technology: Is he satisfied that the process for awarding the ultra-fast broadband tender is appropriate; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u002248a351d90fa74dfcaa2f3f6c3556282a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248a351d90fa74dfcaa2f3f6c3556282a\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Communications and Information Technology):\u003C/span\u003E Yes; because the Government and Crown Fibre Holdings have followed the utmost standards of probity. I note that the process involved Crown Fibre Holdings analysing and negotiating commercial offers before providing recommendations to shareholding Ministers, which is a process in many ways not dissimilar to that developed by the previous Government to approve bids to its Broadband Investment Fund, which were also signed off by Ministers. In order to be helpful, I also note that the Opposition has made a mistake on its blog. I am actually not a shareholding Minister in Crown Fibre Holdings; that honour belongs to my colleagues the Ministers English and Power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022350fe0eecf5d42dba6bd21860c2c9df1\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he believe there is no conflict of interest with Murray Milner, who carried out consultancy work for Chinese company Huawei Technologies, a potential bidder to supply services and equipment for the broadband roll-out, being at the same time a Crown Fibre Holdings board member who was approving decisions about the tendering process for services and equipment suppliers for that very same equipment and infrastructure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d740bcd58f34505ad507f76682b1380\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, I point out to the member that Huawei Technologies is not a bidder in the process that the Crown Fibre Holdings board is considering. It is potentially a technology supplier to one or more of the bidders, but it is not actually involved in the bidding. In relation to Mr Milner and any of the other directors, I understand Crown Fibre Holdings has an interest register and a conflict of interest policy, which it adheres to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022483da14850644d7386a8291af723e004\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Was he aware that Murray Milner carried out consultancy work for Huawei Technologies from June to October 2010 while holding a position on the board of Crown Fibre Holdings; if so, why does he still think there is no conflict of interest?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2acfcc7ce2544369c6cb15aa5847e35\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I was recently made aware that Mr Milner had done some work for Huawei Technologies, but the remainder of my answer is the same as the answer to the previous supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022437a36bef97d48a69255a181a2f0ee1d\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Will Crown Fibre Holdings be providing coordination assistance and commercial and technical advice to the ultra-fast broadband selected partners when electing the equipment suppliers for passive infrastructure and layer 2 equipment for ultra-fast broadband; if so, why is Crown Fibre Holdings pushing for there to be common suppliers and for all subsequent respondents to use the same suppliers as stated in a document written on 14 October 2010, which was sent by Crown Fibre Holdings to three selected respondents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d81bcda1bfd14559abf4d50218d199bc\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: That was quite a long question, and I am not quite sure which bit to focus on. Crown Fibre Holdings does have a very clear policy, as I said, regarding interest, and I cannot for the life of me think where the member is coming from on this. Crown Fibre Holdings has a clear interest register, and any conflicts are managed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215d34f0540b64562a2e2f8e7786cba26\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: How does he reconcile his public statement about Huawei Technologies\u2019 relationship with the Government that \u201CIt\u2019s one step removed from government. They are not a bidder in their own right, they\u2019re a technology partner. It\u2019s not like there\u2019s going to be any screwing the scrum in a particular way.\u201D with John Key\u2019s singling out the firm as a potential participant in the fibre scheme and the firm\u2019s clearly bidding to be an equipment provider?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297e3eed0846b430591fdbdf6fcc6b0be\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: There are a couple of things. Firstly, it is not bidding with Crown Fibre Holdings at all, so the last part of the member\u2019s question is completely incorrect, and, secondly, I think it is entirely right for the Prime Minister to point out that it could be a potential partner. A number of people could be potential partners. There is no harm in that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272d63416977e436cbccd05727a3223ea\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table four documents, if you want to take them individually\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228289c7e0a8ba46ea9583db5411fa2f52\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Let us see if we can take them in one bunch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226620d6f820c74b9287cf24a945d281b9\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a PowerPoint presentation by Murray Milner of Milner Consulting Ltd titled \u201CUFB impact on New Zealand Transport Capability\u201D delivered at Huawei Technologies\u2019 ultra-fast broadband technology summit on 27 September 2010.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e8362a60bd0454e89dc9a3cf3d606e0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Let us deal with that. Leave is sought. Is there any objection that? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237706f5b48044e84a0eb7d56d26c2de2\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a transcript of John Key\u2019s interview with Guyon Espiner on Television New Zealand\u2019s Q\u002BA programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022400e9ab08f6347a79848008caeeb4caf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, we are not going to do that. Let us have the next one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6f7322358844489acb2715d3eeb09e4\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter sent by Crown Fibre Holdings to selected respondents on 14 October 2010, which outlines the process for selecting passive infrastructure and layer 2 equipment suppliers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202cbd426dc43486cba93a767b3540cc0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022878b3372c86b4e8096d13866ead9ae3a\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an article in the Dominion Post\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022096d103e44474731b75965caa40bd0b4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, we are not going to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229f4032c9d76b4f86a5d149e30097d2d2\u0022\u003EFisheries, Ministry\u2014Compliance Operations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022 data-id=\u00224256a00ed44e462f9114f9a91bbdcdae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224256a00ed44e462f9114f9a91bbdcdae\u0022\u003EJOHN HAYES (National\u2014Wairarapa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture: What has been the result of recent enforcement activities undertaken by the Ministry of Fisheries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u00228b81c892de664a8fa7e4d858daba7bec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b81c892de664a8fa7e4d858daba7bec\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture):\u003C/span\u003E Over the last year there has been an increase in effective policing in the Ministry of Fisheries, just as we have seen effective policing with the Ministry of Justice. Nearly 400 criminal prosecutions have been undertaken between August of last year and this year\u2014280 offences related to recreational fishing, 74 offences were poaching and black market offences, 38 offences were inshore commercial offences, and three offences were deep-water commercial offences. Our fisheries are one of our nation\u2019s most valuable assets and it is very important that the Ministry of Fisheries team has been able to nail these offenders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ae94eea7-ba5f-4303-bf71-49e708bc9888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228469c8f2d42b4890b492c37407472eb7\u0022\u003EJohn Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: What has been the result of legal action taken against commercial fishers in the last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7a76267236d4485ba38f9accb536dd6\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Commercial operators are regularly inspected, and as result of targeted action, 41 commercial operators are facing prosecution. This year the ministry undertook one of its most significant prosecutions\u2014misreporting by companies and crew associated with the vessel Tomi Maru 87. In July all of those charged pleaded guilty and acknowledged misreporting. Sentencing is yet to be carried out, but $636,000 in sale proceeds has been forfeited to the Crown, and $1.1 million has been paid to the Crown by the owner of the Tomi Maru 87 in order to redeem it from seizure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d6a06cbe14f40bc923d346774289980\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain to the House how the enforcement obligations of the Crown to tangata whenua, and sections 7A and 7B in clause 53 of the Aquaculture Legislation Amendment Bill (No 3), will enable tangata whenua to progress in aquaculture?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b87547a2acac46c48b1357c5904699df\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY\u003C/span\u003E: When that bill hits the select committee, we hope to hear back from tangata whenua as to how they see it operating and whether it will satisfy their needs. I look forward to their submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022551d2580f0a443f68d30dea7ef8ab33a\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have directed the Minister\u2019s attention to clause 53; he is obviously not aware of what\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d99cdc19f5d240818363940c9c2707f9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002232e29e7acdd641e598ae97a2d51a389d\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002228e54525647f41368e29192c8df8e9cd\u0022\u003ENational Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research\u2014Water-quality Report\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002294f316081d5c4250a7eaca992b6ae1b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294f316081d5c4250a7eaca992b6ae1b2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a letter from Charles Chauvel seeking to debate under Standing Order 380 the release of the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research Ltd report on Lake water quality in New Zealand 2010: Status and trends. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EThis is a particular case of recent occurrence that involves ministerial responsibility. Although on occasion the release of a report may warrant an urgent debate, the circumstances must be exceptional. This issue is an important one, but the time to consider it is when the steps that need to be taken to improve freshwater quality emerge from the consultation process that the Government currently has under way. In these circumstances I do not believe that setting aside the House\u2019s business for an urgent debate today can be justified. The application is therefore declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221235dad428634f24bd7fec3631e0aef5\u0022\u003EAlcohol Reform Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022151ab53dfd4247e8a15f308544fefbfa\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u00220a64d083859d4bd2ac5195e5acf845b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a64d083859d4bd2ac5195e5acf845b3\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Alcohol Reform Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I will move that the bill be referred to the Justice and Electoral Committee for consideration. This bill is the Government\u2019s legislative response to the Law Commission\u2019s report on alcohol legislation, Alcohol in our Lives: Curbing the Harm. I acknowledge the Law Commission\u2019s review, the Hon Lianne Dalziel\u2019s original referral to the Law Commission, and the commission\u2019s effort, at my request, to report back a year earlier than planned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003ENew Zealand needs a safe and responsible drinking culture. The late 1980s saw liberalisation of the sale of alcohol to create a so-called European-style moderate drinking culture. Further changes followed in 1999. It is clear that those changes have not worked. Excessive drinking and intoxication contributes to our crime rate and our injury rate, and affects our general health. It impacts on workplace productivity and contributes to family violence and child abuse. The direct cost to the Government of alcohol-related harm in New Zealand has been put as high as $1.2 billion per year. The costs to New Zealand society are significantly greater. But we must achieve a balance. Addressing harm must be weighed against the positive benefits associated with responsible drinking. The Government\u2019s approach is, therefore, a considered, integrated, and balanced package that targets harm without penalising responsible drinkers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThis is a large bill, but its objectives are simple. It zeroes in on alcohol-related harm, crime, disorder, and public health problems, especially where our young people are concerned. It aims to reduce excessive drinking and improve the operation of the alcohol licensing system, including community input on licensing, and to support the responsible sale, supply, and safe consumption of alcohol. Licences will be harder to get and easier to lose. There will be more scope to object to applications and more grounds to decline them. The bill targets the proliferation of off-licences and clarifies the premises able to sell takeaway alcohol. Buying beer at the so-called corner dairy will end as these licences expire, with no chance for renewal. Just as now, supermarkets will be able to sell beer and wine, but not spirits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThe Government recognises that different communities have different needs, best understood by local people. This bill empowers communities to address local issues like the concentration, location, and opening hours of alcohol outlets. These are local alcohol policies. Where there is no local trading-hours policy, maximum national trading hours will be 8 a.m. until 4 a.m. for on-licences, clubs, and special licences, and 7 a.m. until 11 p.m. for off-licences. Licensed decision makers will be able to set hours within and up to the maximum hours for individual licences. The only way the maximum hours can be changed is by communities, through a local alcohol policy. The bill provides a small exception for Anzac Day, but there is no other provision for extension of the hours, even for nationally important or, for that matter, major televised events. I expect this issue will be the subject of careful scrutiny at the select committee. The bill focuses strongly on the high and disproportionate harm caused by youth drinking. Risky drinking behaviour is becoming increasingly normalised, especially among our young people. The Government is not prepared to stand by and allow excessive and harmful alcohol consumption to be further ingrained into our culture. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThe Alcohol Reform Bill sets a foundation for change. It pulls a number of levers to reduce the availability of, and demand for, alcohol. Perhaps the most significant proposal is a split purchase age. The bill increases the off-licence purchase age from 18 to 20, while keeping the on-premises age at 18. This proposal is a starting point for debate. I expect the select committee will carefully consider any enforcement or employment complexities of a split purchase age. Supplying alcohol to minors without parental consent or in an irresponsible manner will be an offence. Responsible supply means that common sense, host responsibility, adult supervision, the age of minors, the quantity and duration of supply, and the availability of food are particular considerations. This aims to encourage parental and individual responsibility for supply to minors, and give parents greater control over the supply of alcohol to their children. I expect that the definitions surrounding these matters will be the subject of some discussion also at the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EReady-to-drink alcohol has a strong appeal to young people, and, therefore, a high potential for harm to this group. This bill enables the Government to regulate the size and strength of ready-to-drinks. We have proposed limits of 5 percent alcohol content and 1.5 standard drinks per ready-to-drink. Due to existing agreements with Australia, a regulation-making process is needed to allow for required consultation. It will also ensure that accurate definitions are developed. This bill adopts, further, stage one of the Law Commission\u2019s advertising recommendations. It strengthens the existing offence of promoting excessive consumption of alcohol by making it apply to any business. It will be an offence to promote or advertise alcohol that is free of charge, to offer any goods or services on the condition that alcohol is purchased, to promote or advertise alcohol in a manner likely to have special appeal to minors, and to promote discounts on alcohol that could imply it is 25 percent cheaper than normal, unless on licensed premises. I will be closely monitoring the submissions on advertising. The adoption of stage one of the Law Commission\u2019s proposals is a starting point for Parliament\u2019s discussion on alcohol advertising, and the Government is not ruling out making further changes in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EThe bill also revises the criteria for creating liquor ban by-laws, so that liquor bans are focused on areas where there is evidence of alcohol-related harm. Importantly, and significantly, the bill widens the definition of public places for liquor bans to include spaces like car parks and schools that the public can legitimately access. The bill introduces a more responsive penalty for breaching a liquor ban, with the possibility of it being in the form of an instant fine issued on the spot or after arrest. Other enforcement changes include a provision for the automatic cancellation of a manager\u2019s certificate for 5 years when a manager is found to have seriously breached his or her licence three times within 3 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EFinally, the bill enables the Minister of Justice, in consultation with the Minister of Health, to ban particular alcohol products considered to be particularly dangerous to health or particularly attractive to minors, subject to standard regulations processes. The Government continues to investigate minimum alcohol prices. I said when I announced these proposals that retailers would have a year to provide sales and price data, after which regulation could be likely. I will advise by the end of the year what information is required and by when. Legislation alone will not change our excessive drinking culture. It can, however, help us to develop a safe and responsible drinking culture supported by robust public education and treatment interventions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EFor those many New Zealanders who have a very real interest in this particular subject matter, now is the time. This is the moment when submissions should be made to the select committee to make those views heard. This forum, over at least a 6-month period, will provide the place for the public to have their say on this very complex, difficult, but essential issue for Parliament to consider. I am confident that this bill will help bring down our levels of alcohol-related harm. I am confident that the public will respond to Parliament\u2019s intention to hear their views on this issue. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022828b73cf28374a1c971af8e98e266b8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022828b73cf28374a1c971af8e98e266b8e\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E As the former Associate Minister of Justice who introduced the bill that the Alcohol Reform Bill replaces, and who helped write the very broad terms of reference for the most in-depth inquiry into our alcohol laws that New Zealand has ever seen, I should be standing in this House today to describe this bill as a tribute to the members of the Law Commission and the more than 3,000 New Zealanders who made their views known to it. It is a travesty that I cannot, but the truth is that this bill does not even begin to meet the challenge posed by the evidence that the Law Commission presented to the Government about what needs to be done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI wanted that report and I wanted the Law Commission to write the bill\u2014and now I know why the Government did not give it time to do so\u2014so that MPs collectively could have said to the public that they had introduced a bill based on the evidence about what needs to be done and were now calling on the public to respond to that. They could have let the political considerations and the application of the conscience vote come into play once those submissions were heard, but instead we have a Government that decides to gut the Law Commission\u2019s report in the shape of a Government bill that adds very little to the bill that I introduced over 2 years ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EAbout half a dozen matters are contained in this bill that were not in the bill that I introduced on behalf of the Government of the day. It was the bill that this Government took to a select committee and has allowed to languish there, going nowhere. Every single one of the additional matters in the bill that we have today\u2014every single one of them\u2014could have been dealt with by way of a Supplementary Order Paper to the original bill because they are all within the scope of that bill. The Minister of Justice spoke about local alcohol plans. I chipped in to say what a good idea and that I wished I had thought of that. It was in the bill of 2 years ago that we had local alcohol plans. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Government has completely failed to acknowledge the unprecedented community response to the harm that alcohol has wrought on communities. There have been marches in the street against the granting of yet another liquor licence, from one end of the country to the other. Thousands have attended meetings organised by what started as a small group of health professionals who saw the real costs that alcohol imposes on our health system\u2014$1.2 billion a year. The Minister must be joking if he thinks that is the extent of the harm that we all pay for from our tax dollars. There are healthy city and safer city networks from one end of the country to the other. They have to highlight the property damage that occurs in their communities. There are the unsafe environments in city centres where intoxicated people gather, weekend after weekend. There are individuals like Dr Albert Makary from Timaru, who puts his own resources into a campaign to win hearts and minds about this issue, which he sees destroying families and communities. This Government has completely underestimated the level of community awareness of the extent of the problem and what needs to be done to curb the harm. I use the phrase \u201Ccurb the harm\u201D, because that is the title of the Law Commission report, Alcohol in our Lives: Curbing the Harm, which sees so few of its recommendations in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI am probably one of the few MPs who have read every page of the Law Commission report, but after looking at this bill, I ask what the point of that was. All it really did was to show me how little has been done in response to that report. The New Zealand Food and Grocery Council must be slapping itself on the back, knowing that it now has more influence than the Law Commission\u2014and it does not even have to provide the evidence to back up its contribution to the problem, which is enormous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EEveryone who is anyone has described this as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to grapple with the multitude of alcohol-related problems that must be addressed. This Government has said that it is OK to squander that once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, but it is not OK. I think that is a very good line to use in this debate, because of the correlation between alcohol use and domestic violence. It is not OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThere are four elements that would have been in this bill, had the Government been truly willing to deal with the real issues, instead of the sham we have seen of side-swiping and sidelining issues, such as getting us to look at age as an important issue. Age is not the top issue, at all. The four issues are price, the rampant commercialisation of alcohol and its treatment as an ordinary commodity, advertising and marketing, and dangerous drink-driving counter measures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWhen I say \u201Cprice\u201D, I will not be arguing for an across-the-board increase in price through tax. Excise tax is very useful for several purposes, but it is next to useless, in the face of the power of supermarkets, to put up the price of alcohol, regardless of an increase in excise tax. The priority is to increase the price of dirt-cheap alcohol, and that is why I am arguing for minimum pricing. I refer to the $5.99 bottles of wine. At that price, three young women can buy five bottles of wine to preload on, rather than buy two bottles of very good wine for the same price. The ones who buy five bottles of $5.99 wine are the most price-sensitive buyers. They are the ones who will change their behaviour when prices go up. Do not let anyone tell us that it will do otherwise. That is the reason for a minimum price per standard drink. The $2 per minimum standard drink price would not touch a $15 bottle of wine. That would stay the same price, but it would slightly more than double the price of the $5.99 bottle of wine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe second issue, the rampant commercialisation of alcohol, is evident by the fact that alcohol is usually the first thing we see when we enter a supermarket these days. We do not have to wait to get to the alcohol aisles, because the supermarket has specials right at the front door, ready to greet us and to remind us that this is the place where dirt-cheap alcohol gets poured into the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ESupermarkets do not break the law. I never understood the role of supermarkets when I was Associate Minister of Justice, and it is the one thing I regret from that time. Supermarkets make it their business not to break the law, and I know why. It is because they have a licence to print money. Supermarkets have no responsibility for what happens when their liquor leaves the premises. They are not responsible for their actions. They do not have to take responsibility, and they do not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EPoliticians have allowed supermarkets to sell wine as a matter of convenience. I was not here when that decision was made, but I would have voted against it. We let supermarkets sell beer as a matter of convenience as well, but that has driven down prices and increased availability, and supermarkets can legally wash their hands of the fallout that has occurred. If the public of New Zealand told us, as politicians, that the trade-off has been too great\u2014convenience for harm\u2014then I would vote to take alcohol out of the supermarkets. It is convenient to buy wine at the supermarket; I do it myself. But the price that we have had to pay for that as a nation is this: the cutthroat, loss-leading, deep-discounting, retail practices of a sector that does not care about what happens out there in the community. It is no wonder the New Zealand Food and Grocery Council has done so well out of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EAdvertising alcohol makes not one bit of difference to the drinking culture\u2014Yeah, right! I am a real fan of irony. \u201CYeah, right!\u201D advertises beer, but \u201CYeah, right!\u201D advertising of alcohol makes not one bit of difference to the drinking culture! It will not make one bit of difference until we frame alcohol as a recreational drug, as New Zealand\u2019s No. 1 recreational drug, which it is, and recognise that marketing its consumption and over-consumption runs counter-intuitive to minimising the harm objectives that any regulatory framework governing the legal supply of such a product must have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EFinally, I turn to dangerous drink-driving counter-measures, which focus on impairment. Most New Zealanders have been horrified to find out how much a person can drink whilst still legally being able to drive. Albert Makary, when on stage in Timaru, asked a National MP and I to come on stage carrying the door of a car. I had a real sense of dread that he was going to tell us that someone who had been behind that car door had died. But he did not. It was his daughter who had been in the car. She almost died, but so many do die. We have to take further measures on our roads to protect people from the harm that occurs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe night that I was on stage in Timaru I answered a question that Albert Makary had asked. He asked why politicians will not change laws such as lowering the blood-alcohol concentration from 0.08 grams to 0.05 grams and establishing a minimum price for alcohol. I said it was because we, the politicians, lacked courage. Courage is what we must have. When this bill comes back from the select committee, hopefully strengthened by the submissions that are received, we must have the courage to make a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7cd4cba3e694b738c7db61abc1eaa03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7cd4cba3e694b738c7db61abc1eaa03\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E I commend the Minister of Justice, Simon Power, for the very considered way in which he has brought together this sensible package of alcohol reform. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EHistory is littered with ideological lurches on alcohol law here and abroad. We have had Prohibition, the 6 o\u2019clock swill, and the ultra-liberalisation that was brought in with the Sale of Liquor Act in 1989. The part I found most ironic about Lianne Dalziel\u2019s contribution is that I remember sharing a platform with her, way back in the 1990s, where she championed the 1989 Sale of Liquor Act that she has just spent the last 10 minutes rubbishing. Do members know who the key Ministers were? Annette King and Phil Goff were the key Labour members who put in place the Sale of Liquor Act back in 1989. Those are the sorts of ideological lurches that we get from the left, rather than common-sense reform. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis reform package is balanced, it is pragmatic, and it is thorough. In contrast with what Lianne Dalziel has tried to say, it picks up 126 of the 153 recommendations in the Law Commission report. It will make a difference in reducing the harm from alcohol in our community, without our becoming a bunch of wowsers and without our imposing penalties on the vast bulk of New Zealanders, who have a beer or a glass of wine without causing harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EMy interest in this issue is both as a constituency MP in Nelson and as the Minister for ACC. Nelson has had a sad surge in violence over the past 6 months, and most incidents were connected to the abuse of alcohol. Nelson is no worse than many other communities, but I can tell members that the population has had enough and is expecting us to act. It wants a Government to tackle not just crime but the causes of crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EAs Minister for ACC, I have become far more aware of the real fiscal cost of alcohol abuse to our country. Drink-driving is just the tip of the iceberg. Nearly one-quarter of all accidents, falls, drownings, and assaults\u2014costing the Accident Compensation Corporation $650 million a year\u2014have alcohol as a contributing factor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI like the part of the Alcohol Reform Bill about stricter licensing. The 1989 laissez-faire approach has not worked. We have too many booze outlets, particularly in some of our most vulnerable communities. I also back the tough approach taken to ready-to-drinks, or RTDs. The academic may argue that the form of alcohol sold does not matter, but the reality is that high-alcohol ready-to-drinks are behind some of the worst abuse. The advantage of lower-alcohol drinks is simply that the bladder starts to fail before the brain does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI also back the measures in this bill around the drinking age. I voted for the age of 18 in 1998, but I am happy to put my hand up and say that I got it wrong. I believe that I and Parliament totally underestimated the degree to which the age being 18 has enabled 17, 16, and 15-year-olds\u2014and 14 and 13-year-olds, actually\u2014to access alcohol. The strength of this bill is that it makes it an offence to supply alcohol to under-18-year-olds, it puts some onus on host responsibility, and it allows only on-licence sales to 18 and 19-year-olds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI also back the provision in this bill that gives our councils far greater discretion over local alcohol laws. There are some areas where the sensible approach is national regulation. I am talking about things like cellphone towers\u2014in terms of my environment portfolio\u2014vehicle standards, and building standards. But the reality is that alcohol is an inherently local issue. What is best for the Viaduct Basin in Auckland, for Queenstown, or for the community of a suburban street in Nelson is quite different, and it is quite appropriate that we empower communities to make their own choices in terms of tourism, hospitality, and harm-reduction. I recognise that different rules are quite appropriate for different neighbourhoods. The extension of alcohol liquor bans as part of what councils can do through their by-laws is exactly the sort of practical measure in this bill that we need to put in place if we are to reduce harm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EHundreds of changes are proposed by this bill. As the Minister has said, it is not the last word. The community need the opportunity to have their say on these proposals, and this bill is a very good starting point for that debate. The Government is committed to listening carefully during the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThere is no question about direction. We need to tighten our alcohol laws. We need to work hard to get the detail right so we better manage the harm caused by alcohol and build a more responsible culture in the way we use alcohol in New Zealand. I commend the work of the Minister, and the bill, to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u00227f2c5137fd7f48a8b7d2a83823550571\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f2c5137fd7f48a8b7d2a83823550571\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Leader\u2014Progressive):\u003C/span\u003E The only reason I will vote for the Alcohol Reform Bill to be referred to a select committee is so that the Government can experience the public\u2019s outrage at the abject weakness of its cringing approach to one of New Zealand\u2019s most significant social and economic problems and the damage that alcohol abuse causes to New Zealand and New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EWhat would a 9-point plan on how the Government of New Zealand could create a major social problem in New Zealand look like? Well, first it would take a drug that is known to be of high risk to public health, for example the equivalent of a class B drug, and legalise it. Better still, it would choose a drug that is known to directly cause aggression and depression, and is neurotoxic and carcinogenic, so that the full range of health and social damage is likely to occur. Secondly, the Government would deny that the drug is actually a drug, by never mentioning the word and by talking about it as though it were a normal grocery item that people would naturally expect to find in a supermarket. Thirdly, the Government would make it really accessible so that it can be bought just about anywhere, at any time, on virtually any day of the year, especially in supermarkets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EFourthly, the Government would allow full and free commercialisation of it, so that the price is really low in order for everyone to easily afford lots of it. Fifthly, the Government would make sure that young people of 18 years of age can legally drink on licensed premises, but it would confuse the issue by requiring them to be 20 years old in order to buy alcohol to drink elsewhere. Sixth, it would elevate the pushing of this drug to be one of the most highly respected careers in the land. The bestowing of New Zealand honours, even a knighthood, to industry leaders, would be a good start and be very effective in promoting it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003ESeventh, the Government would make sure that it protected the drug pushers\u2019 right to promote the drug, especially to the nation\u2019s families, through the most powerful means possible, such as television and billboards. It would turn a blind eye to any deception in the advertising, such as links between the drug and being cool, sexy, successful, and part of the in-crowd. Eighth, the Government would make sure that the drug is linked with everything that New Zealanders feel most proud of, especially sport. If there is to be a major international event in New Zealand\u2014dare I mention the Rugby World Cup\u2014the Government would do everything it can to help the drug pushers promote their drug at the event. The ultimate would be if the drug becomes the centrepiece of the event\u2014party central would be an excellent concept to work on, and it would also be a great idea to get the Prime Minister behind it. Ninth, knowing that New Zealanders, more than people in just about any other country in the world, enjoy getting around in private motor vehicles, make sure that intoxication will not prevent them from driving their cars and get one\u2019s mates in the Automobile Association to back that position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EThe first page of the Law Commission report states: \u201CAlcohol is a legalised drug with the potential to cause serious harm. We propose\u201D\u2014that is, the Law Commission\u2014\u201Ca new policy framework that amounts to a paradigm shift in the regulation of alcohol compared with the current system. We anticipate there will be considerable resistance to some of the proposed measures.\u201D Well, the last outfit I thought would be the most resistant is the Government of New Zealand, given the evidence in front of its eyes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s Alcohol Reform Bill to reduce excessive drinking is simply a recipe for the status quo, which means continuing disaster. Last weekend\u2019s appalling behaviour at Eden Park, where a liquor ban was not enforced, is proof that the Government has not gone far enough. My belief is that submissions to the select committee will show the Government how the people of New Zealand really feel about that. It served to highlight the inadequacies in our current laws and it shamed our nation abroad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EWhy does this Government have difficulty accepting that alcohol is a drug? This Government is not in step with the majority of New Zealanders. The mood of the country towards alcohol abuse is changing, but it is being led by the public and the media, not by the Government. In the same week as the Eden Park shambles, organisers of Christchurch\u2019s New Zealand Trotting Cup got it right by implementing a simple wristband system, whereby wristbands were removed from patrons thought to be intoxicated. This would have been unheard of even 3 or 4 years ago. It shows that the public is willing to change entrenched drinking habits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EWho would have thought that the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee\u2019s proposal for a smoke-free New Zealand by 2025 would cause hardly a ripple of protest? It is because the time is right. Let us aim for a drunk-free New Zealand, too. That is in step with public opinion. Seventy percent of New Zealanders support the proposition to lower the drink-driving blood-alcohol limit, yet the Government needs \u201Cmore research\u201D. Really? What is this Government scared of, in face of all the facts? What is this Government scared of, in face of all the facts and the political polls, which show that the New Zealand population is for the reduction in alcohol abuse? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EAlcohol abuse costs this country billions of dollars every year. The $1.6 billion that the Minister quoted is really just the tip of the iceberg. This Government is almost always a slave to polls, yet it is ignoring the poll on liquor reform, and I have to ask myself why. Cheap alcohol is one of the main problems but it is not being addressed, despite advice and research from New Zealand and international experts. Our road death statistics, particularly since the age at which people can purchase alcohol and drink alcohol on licensed premises was lowered to 18, are simply horrific. Reducing the blood-alcohol level from 0.8 to 0.5 grams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood evidently still needs \u201Cmore research\u201D. How many more deaths caused by drink-driving must this nation endure before a Government shows the remotest sense of responsibility and courage in addressing the issue? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7d35332626540598d034a72b2d9ad37\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Where were you for 9 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c86c5df2eb6c4c66bc4cab42b2ffa960\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I ask Mr Smith to look at my record of voting on this matter; it will be better than his, I bet him. One in every five New Zealanders is a heavy drinker. That is equal to the combined populations of Wellington and Christchurch. I still hear people say that this is a small problem for a small group of New Zealanders. It is not. Sixty percent of all criminal offending in New Zealand is associated with alcohol abuse\u201460 percent. The Government talks about putting more police on the beat; if it did more about alcohol abuse it would not have to bother. Getting wasted should not be an ambition to which our people aspire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EThis Government is showing abject political weakness over the alcohol debate, which begs the question: what is the National Party getting from the liquor industry for the Government\u2019s unwillingness to act decisively? How much money is being put into the victory fund account by the liquor industry for the National Party\u2019s next election campaign? Could we have an answer from National members?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8778cd4e24045368de45d4291e8bdc5\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am personally offended by the suggestion that we, the members of the National caucus, could have been bought in such a way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211dbffa3a7ea491fae16183edeed270a\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the member that it is outside the Standing Orders to say that someone is in the control of, or being in the pay of, someone else; there is no question about that. The Hon Jim Anderton did not go that far, I grant you, but he did raise it by way of a question, and I can see that people took it in an edgy way. But I have to say, on balance, this is to be a House of free speech and people are entitled to say what they believe. This could be a matter where we would take\u2014I am struggling for the word, at the moment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223573047cbd514a3faf3a46ff2a69ce11\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: Umbrage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241a49c7df6374283b24f708ac92f4cf3\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: It is not umbrage; it is a matter of taste. The member has spoken in a way that people might find distasteful. But I think he has raised the issue. It is sharp, but he has raised it in the form of a question. He has not said that the National Party or a particular party has been bought. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7f30141796e412fa28d77584c52419a\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I will take aboard the comment in finishing, and just ask this: would the liquor industry tell us how much money it has given to the victory fund account of the National Party for the next election? I will be interested in that response as well, but I am not holding my breath.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c1f8894a4da4bf88cee62aad1d87cf8\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am very concerned, because the question that you referred to asked \u201CHow much money?\u201D. It did not ask \u201CWas there money?\u201D, but asked \u201CHow much money?\u201D. Therefore this member is saying that the National Party has received money in response to policy. I again take offence. The question was not whether it had happened, but how much money was involved. Therefore, the inference was certainly that money has changed hands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280005b5c9ee34e6a9fda5febb9a1f6e4\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker, I want to say that the position I am now putting to the House is that the liquor industry can answer for itself. Did it give, and has it given, any money to the National Party\u2019s victory fund account, and/or how much? Let the liquor industry answer the question. I am not holding my breath for the answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5b1c57cdfee4da980319f54b747e29f\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: It seems to me that a very dangerous precedent is being set by the indication in your ruling, which is effectively that a member can ask a question\u2014put something in the form of a question\u2014and get away with it, but to do it otherwise is not allowed. Therefore it is all right for me to say that a particular member is senile or ask \u201CIs he senile?\u201D, but I cannot make that as a statement of fact. That, to me, seems very dangerous. It simply means that a member must rephrase everything, to ask \u201CIs the member senile and at a point where he should retire?\u201D. If I do it as a question, somehow that is OK, but if I do it as a statement it is not. It seems to me that is a very dangerous path to go down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276bff470ab524464a1afd87f2d1b1a6a\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: I believe there was genuine public interest in knowing whether and, if so, how much the liquor industry, the advertising industry, and the food and grocery industry have contributed to political parties. I believe there is genuine public interest in knowing whether there is any linkage between the amount of moneys these industries contribute to political parties and the outcome in a policy sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022492f91ec265d4033be9f80eddcddb753\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: The issue here is not the electoral law and what disclosures there should be, in respect of which the National Party is absolutely committed to complying with the law. The issue that the junior National whip has taken offence to, very appropriately, is the appalling allegation that members such as myself have been influenced in our decision on this very important public policy issue by such things. There is absolutely no evidence for that. It is grossly offensive and wrong, and if you are to allow the sorts of statements and claims that have been made by Mr Anderton, then in my view you are effectively allowing the names of good members of this House to be muddied in a way that I have not seen in my 20 years in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff5ce0856cad4b69acae10367cb99638\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: To take the converse of the point made by Mr Bridges, were you to rule that it was outside the Standing Orders for members of this House to allege influence on a party by parties outside this Parliament, I submit to you that that would unduly constrain the free and frank exercise of Parliament\u2019s privileges\u2014for example, under Speaker\u2019s ruling 34/2. In this case it seems obviously inexplicable to members of the Opposition that the Government, which has committed itself to pro-health policies, should have weakened its position on alcohol reform. We are at a loss to find any other reasonable explanation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c77eb5985d54580a43270e9ba1cd721\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is starting to make statements about the issue, and that is out of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224015a504c1440d9a2c4f9582f006136\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker, I say that the protest by the National Party is interesting because if you read the Hansard, my question asked whether any money had been given. I did not ever suggest that it influenced anybody; I asked whether money had been given. That is a question for the National Party and the liquor industry. I am interested in the answers. I did not say it influenced anybody; I just wanted to know the facts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224451910f973741d8a81dbd75b4bd9e2d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I refer you quite specifically to Speaker\u2019s ruling 52/4(1): \u201CA member may not use words suggesting that a party in the House is, or has been, dominated, instructed, or directed \u2026\u201D. I say the key word is \u201Csuggesting\u201D. Did the phrase that was used by Mr Anderton suggest that members on this side of the House were influenced by the money in the claims that he made? Of course he was making that suggestion, and that is why you should uphold the Speaker\u2019s ruling and not allow such allegations to be made that members on this side of the House say are wrong and offensive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eae7a957fa4540d1aaed362403d7cfa9\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Assistant Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228acc6c5101f3426fa87b5d260d5bed50\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The member has had two goes. I just say to members that this is a very difficult issue. One of the first things a Speaker asks of this House is the right to free speech, and the right to free speech is a right to free speech. This House will suffer if people do not have free speech. In having that freedom of speech, members have to be responsible for what they say. If members say something that is manifestly wrong, demonstrably wrong, and offensive they can be referred to the Privileges Committee and the committee can deal with that matter. So it has to be something that is particularly wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003ESecondly, there are matters that fall into the area of taste. They may not necessarily be wrong, but they are distasteful. I want to pick up on this theme a little bit, because I agree with Dr Nick Smith that Speaker\u2019s ruling 52/4(1) is interesting, and it was correctly quoted: \u201CA member may not use words suggesting that a party in the House is, or has been, dominated, instructed, or directed \u2026\u201D. Now, \u201Cdominated, instructed, or directed\u201D are direct connections. I understood Mr Anderton\u2019s proposition to be that people had used influence. Now influence is a step well back from being dominated, instructed, or directed. Influence is much more diffuse; people can be influenced or not influenced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe second point that Mr Anderton raised, and I guess it is a legitimate point for a member of Parliament to raise, is whether members in the House have been influenced to a decision by way of other events outside. This is common conjecture on radio talkback or in any group of people that one meets. People do ask these questions. One of the defences we have against that as members of Parliament is the Register of Pecuniary Interests of Members of Parliament to disclose members\u2019 interests so that people can see that our interests have not affected our decisions and so that members are open in disclosing those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EIt is also not in order to say that the Government favours one class against another, particularly when it is suggesting that this continues to be done for a party\u2019s ends. I do not get that from what Mr Anderton said. Mr Anderton raised questions about whether money had been made available and whether it had influenced the Government. In this debate National has more calls and members can make their position very clear. I come back to one issue, which I think was from the English Parliament, where a person was asked to disclose a name. That person said they could not disclose the name but they could do it as quickly as they could say \u201CJack Robinson\u201D. That was not offending Speakers\u2019 rulings because it was done indirectly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI say to members that this is very difficult, but I feel on balance and in the interests of free speech Mr Anderton has raised issues, and National members have the opportunity to rebut them, and he has not crossed the line of saying that National was \u201Cdominated, instructed, or directed\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe218f9855b1490490dbf77cb519b75e\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I now ask you to give me your direction on whether Speaker\u2019s ruling 52/6 might apply in this case, given that it is my distinct memory that the member asked how much money\u2014not whether any money\u2014was given. I would say that Speaker\u2019s ruling 52/6 certainly goes to the question at hand there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e53e2d097e1461ab672fe0699bdf713\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to thank the member opposite for raising that Speaker\u2019s ruling and I also thank the Hon Dr Nick Smith for raising Speaker\u2019s ruling 52/4(1). In assisting your consideration of those points I refer you to Speaker\u2019s rulings 52/4(2) and (3), which I am sure you will have available, but for the sake of listeners they state: \u201C(2) a member making such a suggestion in an indirect way or by means of a question does not offend \u2026\u201D\u2014which I think covers completely Mr Anderton\u2019s position\u2014and also \u201C(3) when a member states that a party has received its marching orders, directions, \u2026 the member does not offend unless the Speaker is satisfied there is a clear suggestion that such orders, directions, or instructions have been or are being acted upon \u2026\u201D, and there is no clear suggestion of that nature. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003EA question was raised, because we could not explain the Government\u2019s behaviour, but no direct suggestion has been made that the Government has acted in a particular way. The question has simply been raised and it should be a matter of public record whether any donations have been made to the Government on or around the same period that there has been consideration of this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226db4967b4a5040e582621f30532ad8db\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a very difficult issue. As members can see, it is very difficult to make decisions off the cuff, but I say to members that had Mr Anderton said that the National Party had received money, I would have said that he was completely out of order. If Mr Anderton had said it had received money for these decisions, I would have said he was completely out of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe member indicated to me that he said that but I understood that Mr Anderton\u2014and he may be able to correct me here because I just cannot quite remember the exact words\u2014was asking whether National had received donations and to disclose those, and whether those donations had influenced its decision. That was the nature of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274b8016962e84271b6174dd20904d0ca\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I never mentioned that they had influenced its decision. I asked whether it had been given any money, and if it had, how much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dda08c42bf546509853368f1b64f629\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: The member made a comment earlier on. That was the second one; what was the first one? Just refresh my memory on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a64046b3891f43ecb9a86b77ee6ed8c7\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I will read from the notes if you like, so that we get it right. It will be in Hansard anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e346f14ba11e4c098a9c4a5afa069a55\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: It is too late then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c704c53ba95415880085091476b565b\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: If I can find it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f833ef02b7b545959acd28897bcd5c52\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Next week will be all right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7d6fa22c89a4cc893e5a6c1b7c118b8\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: At least I am not reading the wrong speech. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022735647fa5914409c8fe21e3f19e528e0\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I ask members not to make interjections. I asked the member a serious question. I want the member to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221423b5c20aa74cde97fabf3d6db1f01f\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: The relevant section is: \u201CHow much money is being put into the victory fund account of the National Party by the liquor industry?\u201D. \u201CNothing\u201D is an answer, \u201C$1\u201D is an answer, \u201C$1 million\u201D is an answer\u2014any answer will do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d59ada7f59b34dffb3f3d5a00f957dc3\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: I have consulted the Clerk and I will reflect on my decision here. Speakers\u2019 rulings 52/6 and 51/4 point out that a member may not allege that the Government favours the interests of one class. I think that in the way the member has raised this there is very clearly an allegation that the Government has come to a conclusion for a donation. I think the member has crossed the line at that point. There is a very clear allegation in that. If the member had simply asked: \u201CHave there been donations made, and if so for what amount, and have donations been made that have influenced the decision?\u201D, then that is not an allegation. That is a question, and it is different from an allegation. So I ask the member to withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212d9d184736a4fa59e4e630d3f8d773c\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to withdraw the comment I made, and ask whether money has been given to the National Party by the liquor industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d6d50b43aa44d84b5472223c075950f\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I say to the member that I want him to withdraw the comments. I ask him to stand and withdraw the comments, then he can continue his speech and rephrase the words how he likes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c7e213378124c5aba33a5c5d94da2c2\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw the comments and end my speech by asking whether the liquor industry has given any money to the National Party\u2019s victory fund account for next year, or any money to the National Party during the period of this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022 data-id=\u002287d64fdfb6c340eda41b2d76c8789842\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287d64fdfb6c340eda41b2d76c8789842\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The stars were aligned for a historic, once-in-a-generation law change that would reduce our heavy-drinking culture and the damage that alcohol is causing our society. We had this highly acclaimed Law Commission report that promised a comprehensive package of reforms, which had overwhelming public support and cross-party support in this Parliament. But the Government has blown this one-in-a-generation opportunity to tackle this huge and damaging social problem because it does not have the political courage to stand up to the liquor, advertising, hospitality, food, and grocery industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EThe Government has blown this opportunity because it has chosen to put the vested interests of those industries ahead of the health and well-being of New Zealanders. It really is as simple as that, and that is why the question that Mr Anderton asked\u2014whether money has been donated by those industries to the National Party\u2014is such a relevant issue. Instead, the Government has come up with the Alcohol Reform Bill that is doomed to fail, because it fails to address the key drivers of alcohol abuse: the extraordinarily cheap price of alcohol and the saturation marketing and advertising of alcohol. It also fails to tackle the crucial issue of increasing the blood-alcohol limit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EWe live in an alcohol-saturated society; alcohol is absurdly cheap. It is available round the clock, 7 days a week, in almost every dairy and supermarket in the land. Liquor outlets have doubled over the past decade. There are 14,500 of them, and many of them are clustered in low-income areas. We are subjected to saturation marketing and advertising of liquor everywhere we turn. Harmful drinking has become so commonplace that it is seen as something that is inevitable and somehow normal. It is unfortunate that this bill will do little, if anything, to change our heavy-drinking culture or to reduce the problems related to binge drinking crime, traffic accidents, date rape, and domestic violence. This is a tragedy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EAs Doug Sellman pointed out yesterday, this bill \u201C\u2026 fails to implement every substantial measure that would actually reduce the excessive drinking culture.\u201D The Government appears determined to maintain the status quo of low prices, high accessibility, unrelenting advertising, and drink-driving. That is a perfect recipe for maintaining a heavy-drinking culture, or, as Professor Jennie Connor from Otago University put it, the measures proposed in this bill are like \u201Cfighting a bush fire with a couple of garden hoses for the next 20 years.\u201D Although the bill refuses to act in these important areas, it overacts in other areas. It includes heavy-handed provisions that give police excessive, unnecessary, and Draconian powers to arrest people without a warrant. These provisions infringe on the basic civil and political rights of our democracy, such as the right against arbitrary arrest and the right to a presumption of innocence. We can reduce the harm of alcohol without trampling on the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. These are terrible provisions, and we will fight to get rid of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EAnother general concern with the bill is it targets young people in a politically expedient way, when 92 percent of heavy drinkers are aged 20 and over. It is too easy, too simplistic, to divert the debate into one about the drinking age, when the problems of binge drinking affect every single age group in New Zealand. In diluting the Law Commission\u2019s proposed reforms to the point where they will not be effective, the Government, as others have pointed out, is completely out of step with public opinion, which has shifted dramatically in the past year. People are clamouring for a tougher regime. They are marching in the streets for a tougher regime. They have given huge support to the Law Commission\u2019s reforms and almost universal condemnation for the Government\u2019s decision to rule out any price increase or reduce the blood-alcohol limit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EIt is recognised around the world that probably the most effective way of discouraging teenage drinking is to make alcohol more expensive. This, of course, is particularly the case in New Zealand, where alcohol is sold in supermarkets in a predatory fashion at ridiculously low, below-cost prices to lure people, particularly young people, through the door. The Government has acknowledged that putting up the price of tobacco has been an incredibly powerful tool in reducing smoking. Tariana Turia said that raising the price of cigarettes has provided a strong incentive for smokers to quit. It has helped to dissuade young people from ever starting to smoke. Why on earth do the same arguments not apply to liquor?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EIt is also blindingly obvious that alcohol advertising should be treated in exactly the same way as tobacco advertising. Alcohol advertising glamorises and normalises alcohol. It acts as a powerful recruiter of young drinkers. It links the rites of passage for young people to the consumption of alcohol, and it creates enormous peer pressure to drink. I know this because I have a 20-year-old son. When alcohol companies sponsor sports, clubs, rock concerts, and other events, it embeds those brands and products into the lives of young people. We know that 90 percent of 5 to 17-year-olds see at least one alcohol advertisement on television every week. International research shows that this predisposes them to drinking well before they are 18. If the Government is serious about stopping young people from drinking, then this is the very first issue it should tackle. Its refusal to do so\u2014no doubt because of the pressure from advertisers and the powerful liquor industry\u2014seriously weakens this bill and the impact it will have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EThe Green Party has serious concerns about the Draconian provisions in this bill that will allow police to arrest a person in an area with a liquor ban without a warrant if they suspect\u2014merely suspect\u2014that that person is carrying alcohol. The bill also gives police powers to demand under threat of arrest that people they suspect may be breaking a liquor ban give them the name, address, and whereabouts of any other person connected in any way with the alleged offence. No reasons are given as to why these arbitrary powers have been sneaked into the bill. The Minister of Justice says they are there because the police want them. Of course the police would like to arrest people without a warrant, but the fact is that these provisions breach civil and political rights that are fundamental in our democracy. Freedom from arbitrary arrest, and presumption of innocence\u2014we take these rights for granted at our peril, and it is our job as MPs to uphold these rights on behalf of all New Zealanders. We can put in place protections against harm caused to our communities by alcohol, but we should not use this bill as an excuse to sneak in additional police powers\u2014Draconian police powers. The Green Party will fight to get rid of these incursions of police powers over our fundamental freedoms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EThere are other serious flaws in this bill. It exempts the police, Fire Service, and Defence Force bars from liquor licensing requirements. It exempts casinos from having to comply with licensing hours, which will have the perverse effect of encouraging people in Auckland and Christchurch to head down to a casino when bars are closed in order to gamble, as well as to drink.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EThe Green Party will support this bill\u2019s referral to the Justice and Electoral Committee because it contains provisions we support, such as giving communities a say on liquor licensing provisions, and allowing local councils to develop alcohol policies and control trading hours, as well as having more say over whether to grant any further liquor licences. But we will vigorously oppose the police provisions in the bill. We will put forward many amendments to remove the many flaws in this bill and to extend its provisions in relation to crucial issues such as the price and marketing of alcohol. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u0022946c625b0a934419878dcad5c9c0cd6a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022946c625b0a934419878dcad5c9c0cd6a\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the first reading of the Alcohol Reform Bill, on behalf of the ACT Party. Like some other members, we have grave concerns about much of this legislation. It is not enough merely to be seen to be taking a serious problem seriously. Many of the measures in the bill will not have the desired or intended effect that has been spoken about today, but will impinge on the majority of people who drink responsibly. Rather than addressing the causes of this problem, this bill addresses only the symptoms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe ACT Party will have a split vote on this bill; three of our members will be opposing it, and two will be supporting it to go to the Justice and Electoral Committee, but they want to voice their grave concerns about this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EAs lawmakers, we have a duty to step back and ask ourselves questions. Do our current laws serve us well, and do we need change? If we need change, we should ask what the role of Government should be, and what should be left to individuals and communities. Does ever more restrictive and stringent regulation really help, or does it take away the self-responsibility that is inherent in our society, and result in the statute book replacing common sense and good behaviour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThis bill is based on Law Commission report 114, which made 153 recommendations to Parliament. The Government has issued its response, accepting 113 of the recommendations. Now we are going through the process of passing and implementing law. The Government\u2019s response is comprehensive and it covers, as others have said, many areas: the licensing framework and enforcement of that framework; the management of alcohol in public places through liquor bans; parental consent and supervision; advertising; and\u2014the issue on which much of the public focus lies\u2014the alcohol purchase age. All of those things are done with the best of intentions, but good intentions on their own are not enough. Those are very specific proposals to solve a much broader but poorly articulated problem\u2014that of problem drinking: binge drinking, irresponsible drinking by those of all ages, and drinking that ends in illness or violence, or both. But we have a quandary, do we not, because people enjoy drinking, and the majority do so in moderation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EWe have not heard about the social benefits of drinking. People do enjoy it, but we have not heard about those benefits, and that is because people want to continue drinking. They do not want to have the prohibition debate, despite the fact that in listening to Lianne Dalziel, Jim Anderton, and parts of Sue Kedgley\u2019s speech, we actually heard arguments for prohibition, which never, ever works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThere is no denying that there are real harms from alcohol, but it is important to weigh the benefits in any cost-benefit analysis. It is clear that there is a cost, but the size of the cost is very material to determining the correct policy course. When considering reform, it is important to examine the facts. Often forgotten is the fact that when liquor laws were liberalised in the late 1980s, alcohol consumption per head of population fell\u2014it dropped. Although consumption has increased recently along with incomes, but only slightly, it is still significantly lower than it was 30 years ago. New Zealand has the 13th lowest level of alcohol consumption of the 30 OECD countries. We consume about half the amount of alcohol, per head of population, of countries such as France and Italy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EWe must beware the unintended consequences of regulation. Many of the proposed reforms in this bill will not have the intended effect. It is fair to say that the old laws caused problems. The 6 o\u2019clock pub closing created the 6 o\u2019clock swill. The culture, of course, was to swill as much alcohol as possible before the bar closed, and the sawdust on the floors of bars was not there in order to add to the rustic charm. Thankfully, those days are gone, and we now have a lively and diverse drinking scene, which is not heavily regulated. Because of this change of scene, we have some of the top bars and restaurants in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EMy critics will be apoplectic by now, shouting about Courtenay Place at 2 a.m. on Friday and Saturday mornings, and the unseemly Viaduct Basin sights. Am I underestimating the harms? I do not believe that the answers lie in rigid legislation that provides the wrong incentives and, therefore, the wrong behaviours. The truth is that society\u2019s attitude toward alcohol and bad behaviour is what determines how serious a problem alcohol consumption is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EIn many other societies, and Italy is a good example, public drunkenness is simply not tolerated; people do not put up with it. But what do we do here in New Zealand? We walk down the street and we turn the other way so that we can ignore the problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EAll of this says to me that no laws relating to alcohol consumption will really have the desired effect. Laws can try to modify behaviour, but ultimately it is social attitudes that matter. Laws will not change those attitudes; education campaigns may. When we refuse to tolerate drunken behaviour, people will stop behaving that way in public. So what is the answer? There is, of course, no silver bullet. A change in societal attitudes to drunkenness is a very good start. We must never get to the stage of assuming that only the police can deal with bad behaviour. Parents accepting responsibility for their children is a huge factor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003ERecent academic studies show that parental modelling of drinking is a large determinant of their children\u2019s drinking behaviour. Young problem drinkers are almost always the product of parents who are problem drinkers. The studies also show that provision of alcohol by parents is a determinant of drinking behaviour. Our kids learn from us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EAge control is a red herring. The 18 versus 20 age debate merely detracts from the real issue. Inappropriate consumption is inappropriate at age 14, age 18 or 20, age 35, age 60, or age 99. That is why I support keeping the alcohol purchase age at 18, and have been very impressed with the Keep It 18 campaign. This will, of course, be a conscience vote, and, like most parties, the ACT Party will probably have differing views on this matter. I will say it again: to turn this debate into an attack on the young only serves to ignore the real issues with alcohol consumption in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThis week the Attorney-General raised in a report some quite frightening issues, and those have been referred to by the previous speaker, Sue Kedgley. Firstly, a power of arrest for an infringement offence raises an issue of arbitrariness on several counts. If there is a risk to public disorder, alternative powers of arrest are already open to police. Secondly, the Attorney-General\u2019s report raised concerns about a new push in the bill to allow police to compel someone suspected of an infringement to give the name, address, and whereabouts of anyone connected in any way with the alleged offence. The bill also has a number of reverse onus provisions. All of these are a blatant attack on our freedoms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EIt is fitting that today\u2014Armistice Day\u2014we also consider freedom and living in a free society. A free society is one where other people cannot decide whether we drink alcohol, smoke tobacco, engage in prostitution, gamble, or box. We cannot legislate or decide for other people. It is for individuals to make their own choices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI want to finish with a principle that we should base good law on. Good law should be clear, enforceable, and routinely enforced. If the proposals do not meet those criteria, we should go straight back to the drawing board. That is because the outcome is the most important thing. We need real solutions, not just to be seen to be taking a serious problem seriously. It is about diagnosing the problem accurately, looking at what will work, and then once we have the right plan, enforcement, enforcement, enforcement. We must start with enforcement of our current laws, and then add a large dollop of education into the mix to show that we are serious. We must not get in the way of people helping themselves, because that is when we will see real change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7d6053204f8454599488dec16fefc2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7d6053204f8454599488dec16fefc2a\u0022\u003EHONE HARAWIRA (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Today is Armistice Day\u2014the day we remember the deaths of soldiers and civilians who were sacrificed on the altar of war and greed. Today as we consider the Alcohol Reform Bill, we also remember the death of soldiers and civilians who were sacrificed on the altar of ignorance, drunkenness, profit, greed, and the ongoing unwillingness of Governments of both persuasions to put an end to the destruction visited upon all of our communities by alcohol in all its pernicious and evil forms. And today as we consider this bill, we also remember the families who bear the scars of lives lost to cirrhosis of the liver, cancer, depression, alcoholism, and heart disease, and those families suffering the lasting effects of drink-driving and alcohol-related falls, drownings, poisoning, assault, and injury, and of foetal alcohol syndrome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EAs we think of that, let us also remember that back in 1769, before alcohol even got here, botanist Joseph Banks noted that for M\u0101ori \u201Cwater is their universal drink\u201D and that M\u0101ori showed great repugnance for liquor. That was a comment backed up by a 1999 health services research centre study, which said that \u201CPrior to contact with Pakeha, Maori lived in one of the few parts of the world that had never developed alcoholic beverages. The Inuit people of Canada, the Trukese of Micronesia and a number of Native American tribes share with Maori the attribution of being indigenous peoples who did not develop alcoholic drinks.\u201D Yet, for all of that, the problem of alcoholism within M\u0101ori society had gotten so bad that even before the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi European captains were moved to lodge formal complaints against T\u0101mati Waka Nene and other chiefs who were boarding their ships even before they had berthed in the Hokianga Harbour to find and destroy the barrels of liquor that were being brought into Tai Tokerau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EIt is a sad commentary on our liquor laws in Aotearoa today that even as that historical evidence was being given at the Ng\u0101puhi hearings in P\u0101nguru a few weeks ago, Sonny Tau, chairperson of Ng\u0101puhi, was condemning the opening of yet another liquor store in Kaikohe in 2010. It is sad, too, that not long after the Treaty was signed a petition was presented to Parliament by Haimona Te Aoterangi in 1874, which said \u201CLiquor impoverishes us; our children are not born healthy because parents drink to excess and the child suffers; it muddles men\u2019s brains and they in ignorance sign important documents and get into trouble thereby; grog also turns the intelligent men of the Maori race into fools \u2026 grog is the cause of various diseases which afflict us.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003ESo today we have this bill to repeal, to replace, and to amend a whole bunch of laws, but to what end? M\u0101ori continue to drink and die in the same horrific and unacceptable numbers in 2010 as they did in 1810. For M\u0101ori there is greater likelihood of harmful effects from alcohol than for non-M\u0101ori, twice the rate of severe alcohol-related problems, and four times the rate of alcohol-related deaths. Yet Governments of both persuasions continue to tinker with a framework dedicated to achieving bugger all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EWhile M\u0101ori continue to suffer and die at appalling rates, politicians prattle on about people needing to have a more mature attitude to alcohol. They introduce bills like this one, with licensing exemptions, parental consent requirements, regulation provisions, clauses about local authority policy and the like, and an absolute cast-iron guarantee that very little change will come about as a result of this bill going through the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EI hope M\u0101ori will make submissions on this bill that recognise the history of non-alcoholism and the impact of colonisation and the continuing destruction brought about by alcohol. I hope they will, but I will not be surprised if they do not. M\u0101ori have tried direct action. We have done the petition buzz, we have marched, we have haka-ed, we have submitted, and we have done the r\u0101hui, but for what? So that we can do it all again while we watch the statistics shuffle around and our communities continue to suffer? No, we need a better focus, we need a new strategy, and we need another angle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003EThe only angle that might work is the one that Tariana has put before this House: Wh\u0101nau Ora. Unless we can change the thinking of wh\u0101nau, we will not change the environment in which alcoholism runs rampant, and unless we can do that we will be going nowhere fast. We need to support wh\u0101nau-focused alcohol and drug addiction programmes and recovery and restoration services, and we need to take a collective approach to build on the strengths of wh\u0101nau to reduce alcohol-related harm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003ESo the M\u0101ori Party will support this bill, but we will do so reluctantly because we know that tinkering around with legislation will not fix the problem. Only courage will do that. I suspect that there are too many people in this House whose courage will last only until they are offered their next drink. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022feaab8839a944cbe9d2cf7ececfd8ab3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022feaab8839a944cbe9d2cf7ececfd8ab3\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I am privileged to be able to take this opportunity to speak on the Alcohol Reform Bill, and maybe to answer some of the questions that have been raised in the course of other speeches. It is difficult to cover in any significant depth the large number of issues that have been raised, but it is important to speak about a number of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EOver the course of the Justice and Electoral Committee\u2019s consideration of the bill that is currently before it we have heard a large number of submissions on a number of these issues, too. Probably the most commonly made submissions have been about the inability of local people to have an impact on the procedure for granting consent to applications, on the basis of the proliferation of liquor outlets in local communities. I find it most frustrating to hear from people who have been in this House for a long time and who are critical of where this bill does not go, while knowing that they largely sat on their hands while laws were promoted that did not allow local people in their own communities to submit, for example, on the placement of a liquor store across the road from a school. For instance, we have the situation in Glen Innes where young people in school uniform can walk across the road from their high school, purchase a ready-to-drink for about $1, drink it, and go back to school that afternoon, supposedly to carry on with their school work. This bill will allow for local alcohol plans to be developed. It will allow local people to have an impact on the consent process, and so it should. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EIt is also ridiculous to think back to a time when this Parliament decided that we should all start to drink like the French do, turning a blind eye to the alcoholism problem that they have in their country, which is far more significant than it is in our country, and trying to address, for instance, our binge drinking culture by way of legislation. The point has already been well made that legislation will not change that culture, and that only a change of attitude will. The bill seeks, then, to impose liability on parents and caregivers for the alcohol that they supply to minors. It requires that if they are to supply alcohol to minors who are not their children, then they need to have a positive authorisation to do that from the parents and caregivers of those minors. At the moment we live in a country where, if a parent wants to put on a birthday party for his or her 16-year-old child, that 16-year-old can invite all his or her friends, and the parent can put a pallet of booze in the garage, say \u201CGo to it.\u201D, and commit no offence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003ETraditionally the laws on the sale of liquor within this country have been a dog\u2019s breakfast. What happens is that Governments periodically titivate around the edges of them, trying to tinker with them, and every few years they have to have a major overhaul. In respect of what has been done in the last few years, this legislation is a major overhaul. It may well be that members on the other side of the House are not happy with how far this bill goes, but it is significant. It addresses, for instance, retail outlets, the hours during which alcohol can be sold, and the supermarket component of the alcohol industry, which has grown to such a proportion that 70 percent of the alcohol consumed in this country is bought from supermarkets. It then tries to deal with the quandary of the fact that supermarkets are the most compliant sellers of takeaway alcohol in the country in terms of not serving to under-age or intoxicated people, but at the same time they must bear the responsibility of having supplied, through their retail outlets, the vast amount of alcohol that does cause problems for our law enforcement agencies, our families, and our social agencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThis bill also seeks to deal with the conundrum of ready-to-drinks, or RTDs, which have become very much the gateway product of choice for young people who are starting to drink. Mature adults, supposedly, who are in charge of companies have made alcohol and advertised it as alcohol that does not taste like alcohol\u2014alcohol that tastes like lolly water\u2014in order to entice people to start drinking alcohol at a young age, and to then maintain them as clients of their particular brand. This bill seeks to limit the alcohol content of ready-to-drinks to 5 percent\u2014to limit it to one and a half standard drinks. Within the select committee we expect to have some discussion on that, and some concerns will be raised by the alcohol sector. But the other thing we must also recognise is that every different part of the alcohol sector is standing there pointing at another part of that sector, and saying it is the one to blame. In fact, this bill seeks to limit the activities of every part of the sector and to deal with those parts as a group, which is a good thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI take issue with some points made by speakers on behalf of the ACT Party and the Progressive party. I find it to be absolutely abhorrent that someone who has been in Parliament from the early 1980s, and who has stood and maybe voted in certain ways, but who has largely taken no public role in condemning the use of alcohol for well over 25 years, then seeks to call people who are involved in the wine industry or the retail grocery industry drug pushers. I find that absolutely ridiculous. I also take issue with the ACT Party, which is prepared to push and promote the \u201Cthree strikes\u201D legislation, which largely deals with people who commit offences against another person while under the influence of alcohol. That party wants to further liberalise the alcohol laws and will not vote for this bill, which seeks to constrain people when they are sourcing alcohol, the very firewater that creates those offences in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EIt is also important to note something in respect of the comments made by the Green Party and M\u0101ori Party with regard to infringement offences. Currently, the law on the liquor bans that operate all around this country is such that a power of arrest goes with them. At various times of the year\u2014for instance, New Year\u2019s Eve\u2014we have a situation in some of our resorts whereby 160, 170, or maybe 200 people are arrested because they had liquor in an open container in a public place. They are taken back to the police station and confined in a cell for several hours, then let go. This bill seeks to create an infringement offence for that matter, so that that detention is not required. At the same time it allows for a short-term power of arrest, so that such people can be dealt with, but then given an infringement notice and let go without needing to go through the process of being fingerprinted and photographed, so as to streamline the infringement on their liberty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI note that there has been a negative New Zealand Bill of Rights Act report from the Attorney-General on this bill. I look forward to dealing with the issues raised in it during the select committee process, and I have no doubt those issues will be debated vociferously within the committee. I would expect that to occur. We discussed this morning the prospect of this bill coming before the committee. We are all looking forward to dealing with it at a number of locations around the country and to receiving submissions from the many people who will want to engage with the committee in this debate. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022 data-id=\u00224b59f19b9d67434cac1493beb93e788b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b59f19b9d67434cac1493beb93e788b\u0022\u003EHon DARREN HUGHES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak on the first reading of the Alcohol Reform Bill. As my colleagues have said, Labour approaches this legislation disappointed that what appears to be a once-in-a-generation opportunity to make some changes has not been taken up to the full extent that it could have been. But we will vote for the first reading of this bill, because there are aspects of the legislation that we are in support of, and there are other elements where we would like to use the select committee process to advance our view with regard to different aspects of the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EAt the outset, before I touch on the one particular topic I would like to raise in the House this afternoon, I say that I agree with some of the earlier speakers, particularly Heather Roy, who made the point that legislation alone will not make the changes that we need. I totally agree with that. I think attitude change in our society is equally as important as the law changes that Parliament can pass. If we believe that we can just pass law and that people will pore over our Hansard details, read the statute book, and make their decisions on that basis alone, then I think we are deluding ourselves. We need a two-pronged approach of attitude change and leadership in the community, but simply relying on that will not do it; we do need to make sure that our laws are robust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EIn that respect, the Law Commission report, which was set up by the previous Labour Government and was reported under this Government\u2014and Simon Power has taken that work through to the legislation that we are debating today\u2014provided not only that once-in-a-generation opportunity that I spoke of but also a lot of political cover for the Government of the day. I do not pretend that these are easy issues for a Government to grapple with, as people do not necessarily line up along philosophical lines on these kinds of topics. But there was an opportunity for the Government to make the best use of the political will that exists in Parliament to make some of those changes. I think it is worth making that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThis reform bill contains 10 different parts, which amend many different laws. The aspect I want to speak about today is something that is not in the bill but could have been. I believe it is a huge and damning oversight on the part of the Government that it has not taken up the recommendation that was in the Law Commission report, and also that it has not been able to take up the political will that was there. I believe that in the first reading of this reform bill there should have been provisions that lowered the blood-alcohol concentration level for adults from 0.08 to 0.05. I believe if that provision had been included in this reform bill, which touches on many pieces of legislation, then the Government would have found, on a conscience vote, that the overwhelming majority of the House would support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe Law Commission report, on which this legislation is based, has made that clear, and indeed the Minister of Transport himself, when this issue was being debated as part of Safer Journeys, the road safety strategy, said that he thought the current limits were ridiculous, only for him to not follow through when the decision had to be made to include it either in this legislation or in alternative legislation that is currently before the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EIt is an idea whose time has come. Over 300 studies have shown the effect of alcohol on drivers, and it is a terrible, terrible effect indeed. In our country roughly one-third of our annual road toll is made up of deaths caused by alcohol. Many, many thousands of drivers are injured over the course of a decade as a result of alcohol. I also note in passing that drug-driving is a factor in a number of these accidents as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003ENew Zealand now stands as one of the countries in the Western World that has the highest tolerance of alcohol allowed in the blood, whilst still giving drivers the ability to drive on our roads. I think that is absolutely terrible. Indeed, we know from those studies that by reducing the drink-driving limit we could make a real impact on our road toll straight away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThere is no doubt that there is public support. Two-thirds of people who participated in a One News poll believed that the alcohol limit should be lowered to 0.05, and 76 percent of people who responded to a Herald on Sunday campaign nominated a drink-driving limit of effectively 0.05. Even the Minister of Transport, in his own Safer Journeys document, suggested that 85 percent of people had a genuine desire to see the alcohol limit come down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EWe are left with arguments against this measure, which I do not find compelling, at all. The first argument I hear from the Government for not including that measure in this legislation is that Labour never did it. What a previous Government did or did not do cannot be the basis of public policy in New Zealand. There are many reasons why Governments do not do things. Sometimes it is simply the passage of time. Sometimes it is simply an idea whose time has come, and I believe this is one of those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003ELabour\u2019s decision to support the lowering of the alcohol limit is based on two key points. Firstly, the Labour Government\u2019s road safety vision was written in 2000\u201410 years ago. It ran out this year and this Government has picked it up, with Safer Journeys, for the next 10 years to put out what its vision is. In 2000 the blood-alcohol level was not the big road safety issue. In 2000, members will recall, speed was often the thing Governments were looking at. I believe that now, 10 years on, there is a desire in the community to see the blood-alcohol concentration limit lowered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe other point worth noting is that the Law Commission was tasked with going away and looking at everything. I agree with what other speakers have said. Too often in this debate we have chosen one topic and said that if everyone voted a certain way on that one topic, then every disaster and every mischief in the world would go away. Sure enough, everyone feels good at the time and lots of back-patting goes on, but we are still in the same situation. The Law Commission\u2019s once-in-a-generation opportunity, through Sir Geoffrey Palmer\u2019s work, gave us the chance to look at things afresh, and that was one of the recommendations that came back to the Minister. But it has not found its way for us to progress it any further. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EIt cannot be an argument that the Labour Government did not do this, because we could then stand here and say that the National Government that had 9 years before us did not do it. National could shoot back and say that the 6 years of the Labour Government in the 1980s did not do it. That is not the way to conduct a proper and sensible debate. We need to talk about tomorrow, not yesterday. We have offered our political support to the Government for this measure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe second argument the Government puts up for not lowering the limit to 0.05 is that not enough data exists. This is not a strong argument at all. The Government\u2019s own discussion document, which was launched here in Parliament with great fanfare and was signed off, makes the point that there have been 300 studies over 50 years. We could cut and slice the data any way we like. It is clear that our roads are safer for our families, our children, and all the people in our community when the blood-alcohol concentration is lower than 0.08. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe third argument that comes up\u2014and, to be fair, it is not used by the Government but by other people\u2014is that the problem is not drivers who drive with a blood-alcohol concentration of between 0.05 and 0.08; the problem is the drivers who are well and truly over the limit. On the face of it, that argument is worthy of investigation. A study done in Canberra showed that by lowering the limit from 0.08 to 0.05, as every state and territory in Australia has done, the overall consumption of alcohol amongst drivers fell. In fact, in terms of those very extreme drink-driving cases, where people were at 0.15 and 0.2, which are phenomenal levels of alcohol, there was a rapid decrease of over one-third in the first instance and nearly 60 percent in the second instance when those limits fell. Under the 0.05 limit not only do we get drivers who are drinking at a much lower level, but those who keep on drinking and get to 0.08 and cannot make the decision to stop drinking do not get to the much higher levels, which often cause devastation on the roads. I am sure the Minister of Transport would be aware of those 300 studies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThose are the three arguments often put up by the Government that have led it to take the decision not to include the lowering of the blood-alcohol concentration limit in this Alcohol Reform Bill, which amends many pieces of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe freedom argument was raised by the ACT Party. ACT members talked about the freedom of people to choose to drink and then drive. Freedom is a very important principle in a democracy, and I believe people should be free to use our roads safely, knowing that the decisions and actions of others will not wipe them out or cause devastation. I think the ACT members were putting up a serious argument. Freedom involves good decision-making and it involves good judgment, and I believe that at a 0.08 blood-alcohol concentration, where people are legally intoxicated, they cannot be expected to be in a position to exercise the good judgment that that freedom requires. I hope they will consider that argument. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c437bda8-4741-4ac5-89ab-b0818e1ab9fa\u0022\u003EThe political will is there for this to happen, the public support is there, and all the research is available. It is a real shame that the Government has wimped out on this particular issue. The Government has decided, on the political judgment of the Minister of Transport, not to do it. I could not describe it any better than Tom Scott in his cartoon in this morning\u2019s Dominion Post. He portrays Steven Joyce saying: \u201CIf there is any proof linking alcohol intake to the road toll, rest easy NZ \u2026 I will find it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u00225143518633b14e6f8aff901613c6b88e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225143518633b14e6f8aff901613c6b88e\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my privilege to participate in the first reading of the Alcohol Reform Bill. It is one of the major reforms that this Government has initiated. Alcohol has been a part of all cultures in ancient history, and we cannot ban alcohol from our society. But with this Alcohol Reform Bill we want to reduce the harm caused by alcohol in our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe Alcohol Reform Bill will help to ensure that the sale, supply, and consumption of alcohol is undertaken in a safe and responsible manner. This bill also helps the system to minimise the harm caused by the excessive and inappropriate consumption of alcohol. The bill will repeal and replace the Sale of Liquor Act 1989. This bill will implement the Government\u2019s decisions on alcohol law reform. These decisions were made in response to the Law Commission\u2019s 2010 report Alcohol in our Lives: Curbing the Harm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EAlcohol is one of the major causes of crime. The National-led Government, under the leadership of the Rt Hon John Key; the Minister of Justice, the Hon Simon Power; and the Minister of Police, the Hon Judith Collins, has been working hard to reduce crime in our society. The introduction of this bill is one more step towards making our society safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EI come from a part of the country in which there is a very high level of alcohol problems. I also represent a community that has a very high stake in this trade in the form of retail outlets, liquor shops, restaurants, and bars. Alcohol plays a part in 30 percent of all offences and in 34 percent of all incidents of family violence. Alcohol is estimated to contribute to 1,000 deaths per year. During the weekends about seven out of every 10 people who go to an emergency department are there because of alcohol. We cannot ignore these statistics. We have to tackle this problem. We have to reduce the harm caused by alcohol, which increases crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe alcohol reform package empowers communities. It zeroes in on where the harm caused by alcohol is happening\u2014particularly with regard to youth\u2014to control the supply of alcohol, to reduce demand, and to limit alcohol-related problems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Justice has adopted, in full or in part, 126 of the Law Commission\u2019s 153 recommendations. This bill will increase the purchase age. It includes a split purchase age. People must be 18 to drink in bars, but they must be 20 to buy alcohol from off-licences. We are targeting young people, because, as the Law Commission reported, young people suffer a high and disproportionate level of alcohol-related harm. To have any impact on our binge-drinking culture, we need to start with young people, by putting measures in place to control both the supply of alcohol to youth and the environment in which they drink. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe Government has also recognised that different communities have different needs, and that those needs are best understood by local people. This bill will empower local communities to address local issues\u2014like the concentration, location, and opening hours of alcohol outlets\u2014by having a local alcohol policy. Where there is no trading hours policy, the maximum national trading hours will be 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. for on-licences and for premises with club licences and special licences, and 7 a.m. to 11 p.m. for off-licences. Local communities, not people in Wellington, are best placed to decide how alcohol licensing should be treated in their own areas. That is why the bill empowers communities to adopt local alcohol policies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EAs a member of the Justice and Electoral Committee, I am looking forward to public participation and to hearing the concerns and suggestions the public gives for our consideration. This legislation alone will not turn round our binge-drinking culture, but it can help us to develop a more moderate drinking culture through controlling the availability of alcohol, and it has a focus on youth. I commend the first reading of this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022463ead5d8a254f2d8db5a9bdadef700c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022463ead5d8a254f2d8db5a9bdadef700c\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E I have been looking forward to my opportunity to take a call on the Alcohol Reform Bill. I would like to start my contribution this afternoon by congratulating the Hon Lianne Dalziel on her vision and on her role in referring these issues to the Law Commission and asking it to undertake a comprehensive review of our liquor legislation. I also congratulate the Law Commission on that review and on the very detailed report it brought back to Parliament. I acknowledge my colleague from the Manawat\u016B, the Hon Simon Power, for his role in maintaining that progress and for bringing this legislation to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI have been sitting in the House listening very closely throughout the debate. I have heard a lot of not quite opposition to the bill, but reluctant support for it. The reason why the support is reluctant is not due to what is in the bill. For the most part, the changes this bill makes are positive, will be accepted by the community, and will be looked on historically as good moves. But they are slim pickings from what the Law Commission suggested we need to do. They are not the total package that Lianne Dalziel set out to achieve when she referred these issues to the commission some years ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EAfter listening to the debate, I need to refer to some of the comments that have been made by some members. Nick Smith attacked Lianne Dalziel for her superb, passionate, and comprehensive contribution in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f10dbd4256b5494194805ca33391e282\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Angry and boring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230da7038c06c4447a8b21c1ab798b0ee\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Did a member say it was boring?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7568759361c41229b6ed7aa1dced640\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: She managed to be both angry and boring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e5d4482c3e94444a8d26222bc677252\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Lianne Dalziel\u2019s contribution comes from years of dedication to this issue and from research and looking at the evidence. Yet Nick Smith turned round to her and said that he found her speech ironic because of comments she made in the early 1990s in relation to the Sale of Liquor Act 1989. I would think that a member like Lianne Dalziel, having spent 20 years in Parliament, would be able to learn over her time here, and that is clearly what she has done. She may have changed her position on things, but that is because she has looked at the evidence, developed her position, and learnt as she has gone along. Clearly, Nick Smith has not. Nick Smith\u2019s position remains rooted in the early 1990s, not just on this issue but also on many others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI listened closely to Heather Roy because I was interested to see how the ACT Party would be voting on this. She referred to prohibition in this bill. What absolute rubbish. That could not be further from the truth. Prohibition is a failed policy. We know that. This bill goes nowhere near prohibition. She also referred to the 6 o\u2019clock swill. This bill does not revert us back to the 6 o\u2019clock swill either, and nobody is suggesting that that is where we should go. She talked about how legislation cannot achieve change, then offered virtually nothing in terms of what we should do to achieve change. She had no ideas and no suggestions. She said that we have a problem and society should change it, but offered absolutely no initiatives on how we could go about doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EHeather Roy mentioned education. Education feels kind of good because we think that if we educate people, then the people\u2014somebody else\u2014will change their behaviour and fix the problem without us having to do anything. Well, that is a nice idea, but the evidence tells us that education in isolation achieves very, very little. It is sad and I wish it was not true, but it is a fact. She also talked about parents modelling good behaviour. That is true. There is empirical data that tells us that parents who model good behaviour pass it on to their children. But what should we do for parents who are not modelling good behaviour? Nothing, according to the ACT Party; we should just tell them off for being bad people. The fundamental point that the ACT Party does not address in this debate is that with alcohol, just like with any other substance, we are talking about addiction. Addiction gets in the way of the ACT Party\u2019s mantra of personal choice because addiction takes away one\u2019s ability to have personal choice, one\u2019s ability to make rational decisions, and, basically, one\u2019s individual rights. For parents who are not modelling good behaviour, we need to have initiatives in place to support them to change their ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis is where I come to some of the things that really are missing from this bill and from this debate. Simon Power referred to a balance. He said that this bill is a balance between the harms and the benefits of alcohol. I think what the Government is trying to achieve is a balance between the evidence that tells us what we should do and the politics. That is the balance this Government is trying to achieve. What we should be doing is passing evidence-based legislation and using evidence-based initiatives to tackle the alcohol problem and curb the harm, which is what the Law Commission called on us to do. There are three aspects to dealing with any substance abuse problem: supply reduction, demand reduction, and harm reduction. This bill focuses on some aspects of supply reduction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EAt the same time, we need to look at the whole package of how we achieve demand reduction and harm reduction at the same time. Those two matters are health matters. The way that Parliament operates saddens me a little. It is a necessary thing, but that this bill will be referred to the Justice and Electoral Committee overlooks the fact that the Health Committee could have a huge role in this, as well. This is a health matter as well as a justice matter. It is sad that we cannot form some sort of super committee to deal with this bill that has members from the Justice and Electoral Committee and the Health Committee, but that is not the way Parliament works. I accept that, and that is fine. In terms of health and in terms of demand and harm reduction, the Government is going in the opposite direction to the direction it says it is taking us in with this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWe have seen cuts to alcohol and other drug treatment funding. We have seen mental health and alcohol and drug treatment removed from the Government\u2019s priorities. That means that when the Government puts the screws on district health boards and says that it will limit the amount of money they have available, they have to find places to cut funding and things to cut. They take their lead from the Government and if something is not a priority to the Government, then it is not a priority to the district health boards either. We have seen cuts to drug and alcohol treatment services. They are the types of services that would help us make the changes that the ACT Party is calling for. The Government says that it is interested and concerned about alcohol harm in our community, but although it is trying to take us a small way down the right path with this bill it is taking us in completely the opposite direction with its cuts to health funding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI will pass on a small anecdote to the House about price, because that is something that is missing from this debate. The Government has wussed out and deferred the issue of price until after the election. I went to the supermarket some time ago\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227410b8c298dd4bfdb13315ca538b03fa\u0022\u003EHon Steven Joyce\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, really?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022467ce9f161f74946b8c8b357cbb43cdb\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister may be interested to know that I have been to the supermarket several times. I had an epiphany about the price issue when I bought a few bottles of wine. I did not buy them from the alcohol section but from the end of one of the aisles, where they were promoted. Those bottles of wine cost $9.99 each. I took a few bottles home, we had a barbecue with friends, and the bottles were drunk very responsibly. Everybody went home happy and there were no problems the next day. For $30 I was able to provide alcohol for a small function, but for that same $30 a teenager or anybody could have consumed all of that wine and got themselves into a real mess for not a lot of money. I thought that, OK, I appreciate being able to purchase that alcohol for a low price, but I wonder what the effect is on the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EGovernment members may laugh about this anecdote, but here is the crux of this issue: what is the effect on the community and what is my responsibility as a consumer of alcohol to my community? My community bears the cost of harmful alcohol use and alcohol abuse. Although I might appreciate the convenience and the low cost of low-price alcohol, I need to think about the effect on my community. I look forward to the select committee process when many submitters will talk about that and other issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022dcf46176889545ba8103fbd417cf0195\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dcf46176889545ba8103fbd417cf0195\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E In the recent past there has been the discovery of Stone Age beer jugs from about 10,000 BC, or thereabouts, and the evidence essentially indicates to archaeologists that beer probably preceded bread as a staple consumed by humans. I suppose it goes to show that man cannot live on bread alone, but the point I make is that as long as there are people, there will be alcohol. I agree with Doug Sellman that alcohol may well be a drug. I agree with him, but I say that it will always be with us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI am not being fatalistic about this; I accept absolutely that something should be done. I accept there is a range of drinking habits. My father, in my entire 34 years on this earth, has never ever touched a drop of alcohol. I have offered him a beer a number of times. I have offered him wine. I have probably offered him stronger things, but he has never, to my knowledge, in the last 34 years, touched a drop of alcohol. I am not saying that everyone needs to be like that, but that that is one valid response to alcohol. Then there are moderate drinkers, and of course there are heavy drinkers or, as some would say, problem drinkers, in our society, and that is where this bill comes in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EIn recent history we have liberalised our drinking laws. We know that Lianne Dalziel and other members voted for that legislation\u2014and I am not blaming them\u2014and as a country we liberalised the alcohol laws substantially in 1989. I think we all\u2014or certainly most of us, other than three ACT members\u2014agree that we went too far, and that those changes in the law have led, certainly in part, to perhaps a culture change and to harmful drinking as a society. In this bill we swing the pendulum back somewhat, and we focus on harm. In terms of policy we do not lurch, as I think Lianne Dalziel, Jim Anderton, and members on the left would have us do. There is no point in policy lurches to one extreme and then, 20-something years later\u2014or 30 years later, I should say\u2014back to another extreme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EA key word in all this, as Simon Power has said, is \u201Cbalance\u201D, or being realistic about what can be achieved through the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3337fa7c30b411fab146462067887ff\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Simon, if you want to call the Law Commission a \u201Clurch\u201D, that\u2019s up to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e44791da412641fa915d806e5744b7e3\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Frankly, I do not want to see a set of laws that penalise moderate drinkers\u2014but maybe the member opposite does\u2014the sort of people Iain Lees-Galloway talked about, who go to the supermarket and buy some bottles of wine to enjoy at their barbecue with friends. I do not want to see a law like that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f94b5d3f571340c1abfc6722247cd623\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: How would the Law Commission\u2019s recommendations jeopardise that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222635bcbee8df4589835b6b60500fc381\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: The member opposite, Sue Moroney, may want to see that happen, but I do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge the comments of those ACT members who will vote against the bill, because I agree with them to some extent. We also have to acknowledge that we live in a free society where freedom should be valued, where people are hopefully mainly responsible\u2014hopefully mainly have an eye to the serious harm that this drug, alcohol, can cause\u2014but nevertheless where they are free to drink, are free to have beer, wine\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222845eeaa7a3b4e58957021c1495492fd\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Free to beat up the wife.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266cc3ce4506249b9b59959895aa3f1d0\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and even cocktails in bars. Sue Moroney says: \u201CFree to beat up the wife.\u201D That is a disgraceful thing to say, because I do not think that any responsible member in this House wants to see that. By arguing for a freer society, I do not think anyone in this House is arguing for that sort of thing. We are merely saying that the pendulum in 1989 actually swung far too far in favour of liberal laws and free access\u2014any time, anywhere\u2014and a number of other things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWe want to put the balance back in, but in doing that we need to be balanced. We need to make sure that people are not penalised if they are moderate drinkers, and that we appreciate and accept that people are free in our country to drink\u2014we are not going to prohibition\u2014and to do so, we hope, responsibly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EAs someone who is on the Justice and Electoral Committee, which will be considering the bill, I say in closing that it is an important point that the bill is a starting point; it is not the end point. We will certainly be listening very carefully, I am sure, to the hundreds of submissions we will get. We want to have sensible submissions, and we will want to change the law when good points are made. All select committee processes should be taken seriously, but the process on this one, perhaps, should be even more so. We really will be listening, and this bill is seen very much as a starting point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EFinally, I will not go through the specific provisions, but one provision\u2014and probably not the most important\u2014concerns what we are doing in relation to ready-to-drink alcohol. We are limiting the amount of alcohol in such drinks and limiting the size of the bottles. I acknowledge John Church, a constituent, who came and saw me about this some months ago. He came in with a large raspberry-flavoured pre-mixed drink; I think it was called Big Foot. He talked to me very graphically and emotionally about the effect that it was having in his community. He saw young people buying that drink, which looked like Fanta. The young people were certainly of an age when Fanta was all they should have been drinking, yet they were out on the streets drinking the other. That is just one vivid example of where we are seeking, and where we will be effecting, change in this law for the better, so that the pendulum can come some way back, but so that we can still live in a free society where we are not penalising moderate drinkers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002214c30f5fd7084fe4b96268e33cc5f55a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Alcohol Reform Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 117\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 38; Green Party 9; ACT New Zealand 2 (Boscawen, Hide); M\u0101ori Party 5; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 3 (Calvert, Douglas, Roy H).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000408\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Justice and Electoral Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e0aed5cf23394b85a4e8697d79804d83\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222c42eeae33714b80acafc3d1b2505c34\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022b27ecb72adee45a4bfa3c70c21d134e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b27ecb72adee45a4bfa3c70c21d134e2\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) be now read a second time. I thank the members of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee and its chair, David Bennett, for dealing with this bill so swiftly and efficiently. The select committee reported back to the House on 2 November and recommended that the bill proceed with some amendments. I agree with the amendments proposed by the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe intent of this bill is simple. This Government is firmly focused on providing greater choice and creating more opportunities for New Zealanders. We want Kiwi workers to succeed. We want them to back themselves and we trust them to make the decisions that best suit their families. We want our businesses to have confidence to take on new staff and we want our employment framework to provide greater certainty while being flexible enough to accommodate the 24/7 nature of the labour market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe employment reforms contained in this bill will assist New Zealand and New Zealanders. We know that the 90-day trial works. Kiwi businesses want to take on new employees, and they want to grow and invest in this country. In the past too many have been put off by prescriptive personal grievance laws and the fear that if they make one bad hiring decision their business will suffer. The introduction of the trial period last year has made a huge difference to small businesses and to workers looking for someone to give them a chance in a new job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThis is not a new idea. Countries all over the world have similar legislation in place; more often than not it is mandatory and the trial period is much longer than 90 days. It works well and that is why this bill proposes that it be extended to all employers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EI have heard plenty of ideological opposition to this bill and I am not concerned about that. What I am concerned about is ensuring that people who want to work are given every opportunity to get a job. All they want is a chance and we know that employers want to offer that chance. We are giving them the confidence they need in order to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThis bill also addresses concerns with the existing provisions for unions to access workplaces. It will provide clarity to employers and employees on communications while collective bargaining is under way and it will improve the operation of the institutions set up to help resolve employment relationship problems, including the Employment Relations Authority and the Employment Court. It makes changes to the personal grievance system to give greater confidence to employers and employees that they will be given a fair go. Finally, the bill will strengthen the ability of labour inspectors to improve compliance with employment legislation and ensure that the majority of employers who comply with this legislation are not disadvantaged by doing so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe select committee has given thorough consideration to the issues raised by submitters and has recommended some practical amendments to the bill. These amendments have been accepted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) progresses our election promise to make changes to union access provisions. The bill sets out that union access to workplaces is conditional on the consent of the employer, which may not be unreasonably withheld. It also sets out a minimum process for obtaining this consent. The committee has recommended clarifying the time frame within which an employer must respond to a union representative\u2019s request to enter a workplace. This change makes it clear that an employer must respond to a request as soon as practicable but no later than the working day after the request is received. If employers withhold their consent they must provide the reason for declining this request no later than the working day after they gave the union their decision. This provides a maximum time frame of 2 working days for considering a request and providing written reasons. This change provides clarity to both unions and employers about what their rights and obligations are when dealing with a request for a union representative to enter a workplace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe committee has recommended changes to the bill around early mediation services. I understand that a number of submitters were concerned that the bill would mean that people would not have access to representatives during mediation. This was certainly not the intent of the original bill. The change is intended to highlight that one of the options available to parties to resolve an employment relationship problem is the use of mediation services without having representatives present. This recognises that in some instances a problem may more easily be resolved by the parties themselves with the assistance of a mediator. It also provides flexibility, as parties will continue to be able to access mediation with a legal representative if they believe that this is the best way to resolve their problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe committee has also recommended a small number of changes that will clarify the intent of the bill and ensure that employees and employers are clear about what the changes mean. This includes removing doubt about the status of an unsigned employment agreement and providing that employees are able to get a copy of the employment agreement held by their employer. The changes mean that the Employment Relations Authority cannot issue freezing or search orders and that the authority should consider whether mediation is appropriate when a labour inspector brings an issue to the authority relating to minimum entitlements. The committee also recommended that one of the new tools given to labour inspectors, improvement notices, cannot be issued over the Christmas break. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThese are all sensible recommendations, and I thank the committee for the thorough consideration it gave to the bill. I also thank the hundreds of submitters who took the time to make a submission on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThis bill improves the overall efficiency of the employment relations legislation. It provides for greater certainty and flexibility, and it improves the operation of the Employment Relations Authority, ensuring clarity for employers, employees, and unions in their dealings with each other. It will also discourage poor employment practices and increase employment opportunities. These moderate changes will improve confidence, reduce costs, and promote business growth, whilst still ensuring fairness to both employees and employers. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u00228d0a948f69854deea19be0befb93f42d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d0a948f69854deea19be0befb93f42d\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) is another sock in the eye for Kiwi wage earners and salary earners. It is part of a raft of unfair and unjustified workplace laws that remove some of the most basic of rights that workers have enjoyed for many, many years. This Government has turned its back on Kiwi workers and their families. Let us not forget that they are bearing the brunt of the GST increases; the miserly tax increase for the lowest paid nowhere near compensates for increased costs. There is no investment in jobs or skills. There is no plan. The majority response from the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee\u2014and let us be clear about what that means; it means the National and the ACT Party members\u2014demonstrates that this Government is not prepared to listen to anyone who disagrees with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe bill started badly when National used its party conference to announce the extension of the 90-day \u201Cno rights\u201D law to all workplaces and the restriction of union access rights, because it had nothing else to say at that conference. The Government has no plan to stop New Zealand drifting further and further behind Australia. Then the Government went further by pushing this and the Holidays Amendment Bill through the fast-track parliamentary process. The public was given only 3 weeks to make submissions on both bills\u2014both substantive bills with major changes. Large numbers of submissions were ignored. Despite this, I want to thank the submitters, all 8,000 of them\u2014the Minister of Labour referred to hundreds of submitters, but there were 8,000 of them\u2014who went to the trouble to tell the committee and this Government what they thought of this lousy bill. I am disappointed but not surprised that the Government has completely ignored many of those submissions, and the protests of those who opposed the changes in this bill and the fact that only minor and technical changes were being suggested. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EHowever, I am used to what National does. I have been here a while now with National in Government, but a press release states that shopworker Margaret Dornan \u201C\u2026 is gutted that Parliament has ignored her submission on the employment law changes, being debated in Parliament this afternoon. Margaret said that she and several other members of the National Distribution Union (NDU) wrote personal submissions and came along in person to tell their stories to MPs at the select committee.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d4f111d97e745ff8fea9bd6da2a63f3\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: They did. Fantastic job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd5f9d21ec814d5f80f74211e5d03d43\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: They did a fantastic job. It is not an easy thing for an ordinary, low-paid worker to do. I think Margaret speaks for a lot of workers who feel the same way\u2014the thousands who made submissions, and the more than 22,000 workers who went to meetings and rallies up and down the country to oppose this awful bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EWhat was clearly laid out in the select committee\u2014and we will hear more about it during the debate on this bill\u2014was the disdain the National Government has for working people. It is quite happy to be the puppet of an American corporation and sell out the labour rights of a major group of workers, and it is quite happy to rush through the House legislation that removes rights such a meals and rest breaks because of the little problem with air traffic controllers. But the Government has ignored thousands of submissions and thousands of workers protesting in our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI want to talk about two areas of the bill in particular, as there will be more time to talk about other things during the Committee stage. The first one is union access. There was no clear evidence before this bill was introduced that the issue of access was a problem. There was no problem to be addressed there. The Minister\u2019s own department said there was not a problem and employers said there was not a problem. We at the select committee heard no evidence of problems. The only reason for change is ideology and it is supported by, I think, a very small number of employers who want to make it as difficult as possible for workers to have access to their unions at work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that the Minister appears to have originally proposed a more watered-down access change. In an 11 August 2010 Cabinet paper, the Minister proposed to exclude the consent requirements if a union representative was entering the workplace to deal with matters concerning the health and safety of union members. That never made it into the bill passed through Cabinet. The paper said that it was to ensure that the risks to the health and safety of people in the workplace could be dealt with appropriately. As I said, the bill omits any of this, so I would like to know whether the Government now believes it is OK to prevent matters concerning the health and safety of people in the workplace being responded to appropriately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI acknowledge that the select committee made a small improvement to the union access provisions by cutting down from 4 days to 2 days the time allowed for employers to provide a response to a request, and\u2014if consent is withheld\u2014the reasons for withholding consent. But the legislation will still enable employers to say no and give a reason. The union representative will then have to challenge that reason. That could take weeks and even months, and it will require legal challenges. This will be an absolute gift for lawyers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe second area I want to talk about is the extension of the 90-day trial period. Once again, we are left wondering why the Government decide to extend this to all workplaces, when its own research on the existing provisions for workplaces of 20 or fewer employees is far from convincing about the benefits. There was no demand that I am aware of for the extension of this law to all workplaces, apart from the ACT Party. Even as late as June 2010 the Minister was proposing it be extended to medium-sized enterprises with 50 workers or fewer, but the Minister got rolled in Cabinet and rolled by the ACT Party. That is very worrying. Today in the House I asked the Minister of Labour how she could be confident that the 90-day trial period scheme would improve productivity and skills, given we have heard of an example today where a skilled chef in Timaru was fired under the scheme for using too much sauce and aioli. For goodness\u2019 sake! The Minister replied\u2014I thought very flippantly\u2014\u201CQuite easily.\u201D, which shows an ignorance of the issues that we face in this country around productivity and future skill shortages. I thought skilled chefs were in demand; I thought John Key was trying to keep skilled workers in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAs we have debated the extension of the 90-day \u201Cno rights\u201D legislation, I have asked the Minister quite a lot of questions to try to understand what she really thinks the rights of workers, if any, are in this situation. Firstly, we had the TradeMe jobs, with 90-day trial periods advertised as a pre-requirement. The Minister kept insisting that 90-day trial periods are voluntary, and if workers did not want a trial period, they did not have to have one\u2014in other words, if they do not want it, they do not get the job. That is not so for workers sent by Work and Income to do a job. The Minister for Social Development and Employment confirmed that a job with a 90-day trial period was treated the same as any other job. The worker does not have the right to turn a job down because it has a trial period, and, in fact, if the worker did turn it down, he or she would be punished with a stand-down. I then tried to understand what the Minister believes the obligations of good faith are for a worker employed under a 90-day trial period, but it seems the Minister really does not understand those obligations, and in fact had questions about that, as well. We have heard the answers, and the advice that the employer would have to be responsive, communicative, and blah-blah-blah, but the bottom line is that there is no remedy available to workers in relation to breaches of good faith in a 90-day dismissal situation. They still lose their job, they still have the stain on their record, they still have their confidence whacked, and they still have to explain to the next employer what happened at their last place of employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAs I said at the beginning, this bill has many other provisions that I will give more attention to in the Committee stage. But there is nothing in this bill that will build more productive New Zealand workplaces, reduce unemployment, or help to bridge the income gap with Australia. The Government has chosen instead the low and cheap route of undermining the ability of Kiwi wage and salary earners to improve their wages and conditions. The only possible message for Kiwi workers from this legislation is that the Government does not care about them, their families, their issues, or their communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u00227347b082e6a34c159a07952587335d6a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227347b082e6a34c159a07952587335d6a\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to speak on the second reading of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2). It is an excellent bill; I congratulate the Minister of Labour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThis bill provides flexibility and greater choice, and ensures a balance of fairness for both employers and employees. It amends the Employment Relations Act 2000 to make changes in a number of areas, which include union access to workplaces, communications with employees during collective bargaining, personal grievances, employment institutions, and the labour inspectors\u2019 role and enforcement powers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI reinforce that the changes made to this bill are both pragmatic and practical for the issues currently facing employers and employees. The bill will result in a reduction in compliance costs, give businesses more confidence to grow and take on new staff, help resolve workplace disputes faster, and provide choices for employees and employers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI will talk a little about union access to workplaces. The rules for union access will be changing so that any access will require the consent of the employer. Importantly, consent cannot be unreasonably withheld. The Employers and Manufacturers Association (Northern), whose members employ over 300,000 people, supported these changes. Its members said that the current law is problematic, that when union access problems arise they are serious and there is no practical recourse for the employer. They said the current recourse for a breach of good faith in the Employment Relations Authority occurred so long after the incident happened that it was of little use. They certainly supported this aspect of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe bill also clarifies that an employer may communicate directly with employees while bargaining for a collective employment agreement is under way, provided that the communications are consistent with the duty of good faith. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI will also speak about the extension of the 90-day trial period to all businesses in respect of the economic climate that has prevailed. The Government is working hard to lift the long-term performance of the economy, create more jobs, raise living standards, and deliver world-class public services for Kiwi families. New jobs will not be created unless a business has the confidence that it can expand and diversify. The 90-day trial period has encouraged employers to take on new staff, and to give people who do not have a work record\u2014such as students, migrants, and women returning to the workforce\u2014a chance to enter the workforce. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe extension of the 90-day trial period to all businesses is, in fact, very moderate, as the Minister has outlined in her speech. Almost every other country in the OECD has a trial period for new employees. In many countries the trial period is much longer than our 90-day trial period; it can be up to 12 months in some cases. This provision is all about giving businesses the increased confidence to hire new employees, and giving many more people a chance to enter the job market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe Hospitality Association of New Zealand told the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee that the hospitality industry is a first employer of many young workers, and that first employment often brings with it the most risk and uncertainty for an employer. The association considered that the bill will introduce a useful measure of certainty, and consolidate that employment relationship to make it work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EIn a survey that was done about the 90-day trial period, 40 percent of employers who hired someone on the trial period said it was unlikely that they would have taken on a new employee without that trial period. The vast majority of people employed under the trial period\u201474 percent, in fact\u2014have remained employed. This is extremely positive. It is hardly the fire-at-will situation that members opposite accuse the 90-day trial period of being. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThis bill is positive for employers and employees. It is a win-win, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u00220b9cebb1cf3b4b3896bb910468e2c600\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b9cebb1cf3b4b3896bb910468e2c600\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Along with my colleagues, I rise with a heavy heart as we commence the second reading of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2). This bill is unfair, unjustified, unnecessary, and unbalanced. I will repeat that: unfair, unjustified, unnecessary, and unbalanced. This amendment bill is contrary to the objective of the Employment Relations Act, which is meant to be about productive employment relations. This bill will worsen employment relations. The objective of the Act is good-faith behaviour. Well, we will not see a lot of that behaviour in some cases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EAlso, the Act recognises the inherent inequality of power in employment relationships. Listening to that side of the House, one would think employment was a level playing field and that it was just like any other contract, like buying and selling a product. The difference, of course, is that it is about people. It is about people who have relationships in the workplace that need to be fostered and need to be respectful in order for us to achieve good outcomes. This bill flies in the face of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EIt has been the history of this country that, for many decades, employment rights improved. Things got better, not worse. We all expected that our children and our grandchildren would get better wages and have better conditions of work than we had. That has been undermined significantly in recent times, and this legislation is just another nail in the coffin. We are going backwards\u2014back to the future. This legislation has the hallmarks of many aspects of the Employment Contracts Act. It is another attack from a list of many that this Government has put in place in 2 years. It makes our workplaces less fair, less safe, and it will lead to worse wages and conditions. It will certainly see our workplaces become less respectful places. For many workers, as I know from my experience as a union official, being respected at work and being treated with respect is a really important part of what workers want. Being sacked without reason and without redress is not respectful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThis bill covers a number of things: it provides for the extension of the 90-day fire-at-will provision to all employers, it restricts union access to the workplace, and it has a range of changes in relation to the personal grievance system. It has some changes about employment institutions and, actually, some positive changes about labour inspector roles. I will focus on a couple of those changes. I will focus on the access provisions, the 90-day no-rights provisions, and reinstatement as a primary remedy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EMy colleague Darien Fenton explained that restrictions on union access will have negative consequences. I reinforce the point that there was no need for this change. The regulatory impact statement states: \u201CThere does not appear to be widespread evidence of union representatives exercising their current rights to enter workplaces in an inappropriate way, resulting in disruption for business operations or adversely impacting on the employment relationship \u2026\u201D. Members of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, if they are honest about this, will know that just about every employer that presented submissions\u2014they were primarily larger employers or associations\u2014recognised that unions used the access provisions properly and in accord with the current constraints in the Employment Relations Act. The current provisions say that the access provisions have to be used at a reasonable time in a reasonable way, taking account of security and health and safety provisions. They already exist. So what is the need for this change? What it boils down to is that this legislation will provide roadblocks to unions accessing their members at the workplace. Irrespective of whether it is a health and safety matter or a matter of organising for collective bargaining, it will provide the worst employers with a way to drag out the right of access, and that will have negative consequences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI also reinforce the point about health and safety. As Ms Fenton said, it was originally felt that the health and safety element should be left out of the changes. If access provisions are going to be changed, I agree that the right of entry in relation to health and safety should be left out. I say to members opposite\u2014I asked about this in the select committee\u2014that if workers who are injured or killed at work were trying to get their union access to come and check out the health and safety problem, those members will have that on their conscience, because, frankly, it is unreasonable that people cannot access their union official when they need to, if there is a health and safety problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe whole 90-day fire-at-will provision is full of holes. Extending it to all workplaces is a sop to the right, and the use of words such as \u201Cchoice\u201D is just ridiculous. In a high unemployment situation such as we have now, there is no real choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d8e6d2afa18410d8c4d03b5993ebbef\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: The socialists think choice is ridiculous!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd51945e99394ad7803ab3fcd335994e\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Peachey knows that a \u201Ctake it or leave it\u201D job offer is not a choice in a situation of high unemployment. Would a young worker or migrant worker argue the toss with an employer about this? No, they would not, so they do not have a real choice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EA person being sacked without reason or redress has implications not only for that worker; many people have talked about the fact that it will have implications for other workers in that workplace. If they see somebody unfairly treated like that, it will undermine trust. People will become resentful and angry about that sort of treatment. In the past, before the current personal grievance provisions, there were often wildcat strikes over the fact that people were unfairly treated and unfairly dismissed. If workers do not have the right to take personal grievances, I expect those strikes may well happen in the future as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E Frankly, just think about how the worker who is dismissed unfairly would feel, how the worker who is dismissed without reason or recourse would feel. Imagine if your daughter, or your nephew, or your grandchild came home to say that the boss just sacked them. When you ask why, they reply that they do not know, as they were not told. Imagine how you would feel; I bet you would feel angry\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227130dfa33488455f8bb2af803d54db3d\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201fbe279ca9a427e8386d954147ad50f\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. What if that worker went to get another job and the new employer asked why they had left the last job, and, being truthful, the person replied that they had been dismissed. A potential employer may ask why the person was dismissed. That is a perfectly reasonable question. If the person says \u201CI don\u2019t know.\u201D, do members opposite think that person will get that job? This bill will cause a whole lot of absolutely unfair outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe issue of reinstatement as a primary remedy is an important one. It is quite a small-scale issue. In fact, in 2007 there were only 14 reinstatements; in 2008 there were seven, and in 2009 there were eight. But it is important that that provision is there; it is important to see whether, in the first instance, a worker can be restored to the situation he or she was in prior to an unfair act. It is a particularly important protection for union delegates and other union activists. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe combined effect of these changes will mean that the vulnerable workers will be most disadvantaged. Women workers go in and out of the workplace more often, so they will face 90 days\u2019 employment with no rights more frequently. Young workers and many people entering the workforce for the first time know their rights less well, and are often less confident and less able to negotiate issues like 90 days with no rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EIt will be more difficult for workers to improve their wages and conditions. Potentially there will be increased disputation. But also, sadly, these changes will mean that the attempt to get our workplaces on to a more modern footing, to have the high-trust, highly productive workplaces that this country needs to lift its economic performance, and to close the wage gap with Australia will be under threat as a result. We cannot have high-trust, highly productive workplaces when people have the threat of unfair dismissal hanging over them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EDuring the Committee stage I will have much more time to deal with specific points, but I thank the nearly 8,000 submitters and the Department of Labour officials. The officials were put under enormous pressure because of, yet again, another rushed process by this Government. They did a very good job, under great pressure, of providing us with the advice we needed. Overwhelmingly, the submitters did not support this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I just want to say we had a submission from a 14-year-old woman. I do not think anyone in that room, if they were honest, could say they did not feel how strongly she was concerned about what it would be like for young workers in workplaces who face unfair dismissal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3f34eaf08484ec79f2afcb9502565cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3f34eaf08484ec79f2afcb9502565cb\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It is very sad that the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee did not come back with a strong report rejecting the Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2), and that the majority of the select committee did not listen and take in the many representations from individual workers and, as has just been mentioned, unions and community organisations, all of whom were opposed to the bill. Sure, some submissions were in favour of the bill, but they were few and far between. Some of them made good points, but the overwhelming feeling of the submissions was against this bill, because it takes away fundamental union rights. If members want to read the detail of that, they can read the Green and Labour Party minority report, which explains the problems with the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI will go over the fundamental union rights that have been taken away. One of the most fundamental rights was the right of members of the union to talk to union officials in the place where they work. That is the question of union access. The present system operates pretty well. We heard all the submissions and we questioned employer representatives. There was not much evidence at all that there was any significant disruption in the workplace under the present system of union access, which requires that access to be at reasonable times and not to be overly disruptive of the workflow, etc.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThere were very few complaints about the present system before this bill. This bill puts unions at a big disadvantage. It has been indicated that there were some improvements in relation to the delays, but unions can still be delayed up to a couple of days in terms of getting into a job site. Various union representatives explained to the select committee their practice in visiting worksites. A lot of them have to cover a lot of worksites in a day and they have to be able to vary the worksites a bit. If, say, they have 10 worksites to cover in a day, and you have to spend a bit more time at one worksite because there is a bit of a health and safety problem, you may have to phone up the next worksite and say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ad24640ed1e4d8191de812d7779c966\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is including me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022787acb3d63bd41939230167d654bac74\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE\u003C/span\u003E: I am very sorry, Mr Assistant Speaker. The union official would phone up the employer at the next worksite and say: \u201CLook, I was going to come at around 8 o\u2019clock. I\u2019ve got to put that out to 10 o\u2019clock. I\u2019ve got a bit of a problem here.\u201D That flexibility is built into the system whereby the employer will cooperate with changing times and all the rest of it. Now, an employer who does not want the union to be on the job, or who wants to weaken the union, will be able to put off that visit for a couple of days, muck around with the time, and make it much more difficult for the union to operate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EAs the previous speaker said, there might be very important immediate issues, such as health and safety issues, that require attention, although the employer might say that an issue is not a health and safety issue. I have been in a situation like that myself. At one point I was working in a motor factory and there was a problem with fumes coming into the manufacturing section where we were making seats. The employer did not think that fumes were coming in. We did. We were being affected by the fumes and we took a form of union action against that. One can see that there is not necessarily agreement between the employer and union on whether there is actually a health and safety issue. So there has to be a flexible system for union access. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe next basic right undermined by this bill is the right to stay in one\u2019s job\u2014that is, to stay in employment. That right is threatened by the 90-day trial period provision being extended to all workers. The basic thing about staying in a job is having the right not to be dismissed without good cause and without a reason being given. If people can be sacked at will within the first 90 days of their employment without a reason being given, as this bill provides for, they naturally feel very hurt, particularly if they do not think there is a good reason, but that it is just that they are being picked on, and they have not had a fair go. That grievance carries on in the person\u2019s emotions and feelings and all the rest of it for a long time if they lose their job unjustly under the 90-day provision. They also lose a sense of power. There is a feeling of powerlessness and they feel that for those 90 days their future is at the whim of the employer. This particularly affects people who are coming in under the 90-day trial period provision. Those people will often be the more powerless workers\u2014the marginalised workers, some younger people, and workers who have been unemployed and who find it more difficult to get a job. They already feel powerless, and will feel even more powerless under this provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to mention, which has not been recognised sufficiently by this Parliament, is the effort that people sometimes go to to get a job. Migrants may go from one side of the world to the other, and it costs them a lot. They may shift their family, or have to divide their family for a while because the mother or father has to go ahead and get the job, and the rest of the family comes later. Those migrants may have been unemployed, say, in Auckland, and may have to move down to the Waikato, Whanganui, or somewhere else to get a job on a farm. They take their family, set their children up at a school, and then, 75 days later, they can be just sacked without any reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EJust today I received the case of Cheryl and Bruce, who had shifted to be a herd manager and a relief milker on a farm. They had tried to defend a migrant worker who was working on the same farm, and the employer told them to get lost, that they had lost their jobs. There was no reason for the dismissal in terms of their work, their politeness, or anything else; the employer just did not want anyone to dissent on any matter. Now they have all sorts of problems with their kids being at a local school. They have to drive their kids 40 minutes each way to school each day because the family had to shift out from the farm, and they have all the rest of the problems associated with the 90-day provision. The idea that the provision is voluntary and that people do not have to agree to it is a bit of a joke, particularly in the situation now where we have growing unemployment. If people want a job, then they have to accept the 90-day provision in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThis bill also weakens unions in the sense that there is a dissection of the workforce who are on a particular job. Workers who have been employed for fewer than 90 days will feel reluctant to criticise anything that happens in the workplace for fear of losing their jobs. Those workers will not want to join the union, particularly if the union is the subject of some contention with the employer, because they could be seen as people who might stand up for their rights or who might be a bit more stroppy than others in the workforce. The employer might want to send them down the road in favour of a more compliant person, and there are plenty of examples of that happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe idea that more jobs are available through the 90-day provision has not been proved, either. In fact, we get a less efficient workforce if employers can hire people for just 90 days and then get rid of them, because there will be less training as those workers will be treated as temporary labour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EAnother issue dealt with in the Labour Party and Green Party minority report is the personal grievance situation. People can be sacked, and reinstatement is not a primary remedy. So if an employer wants to get rid of a union delegate, the employer might just kick that person down the road as he or she will not be able to come back to the job. That might cost the employer a bit at the Employment Court, but the employer can intimidate the rest of the workforce by getting rid of the lead union delegate. That is the sort of thing that will happen if we do not reinstate people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EGood-faith bargaining is also undermined by this provision, which allows employers to swamp the workers with their side of the story when there is some contention over, say, an employment contract. The union does not have the ability to contact all the shareholders to swamp them with the workers\u2019 side of an employment dispute between unions and employers, so it is a very one-sided provision. It will undermine good-faith bargaining between employers and unions, which is the heart of good unionism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EAltogether, this is a very bad bill. There have been huge demonstrations around the country against it. I, along with Carol Beaumont, was at the one in Auckland, which thousands of people attended. The unions are more active now than they have been for many years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u0022f261836256ba4b28b3191655eee1ccb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f261836256ba4b28b3191655eee1ccb5\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Contrary to what the previous speaker, Keith Locke, has just said, the Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) is a very good bill and the ACT Party will be supporting it. The bill extends the 90-day trial period currently permitted for employers with 20 or fewer employees to employers of any size, which is exactly as it should be. There should be a level playing field in the market place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe bill also makes changes to union access to workplaces, communications with employees during collective bargaining, and the test for justifiable dismissal or an action by an employer. It actually rectifies several problems that have emerged since the 90-day trial period was introduced. In fact, ACT would have been very happy to have a significantly longer trial period. We would have been very happy to have it set at 6 months\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a4dfb22458148dbac31e7f654764528\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: Why not permanently?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f54458b66a1248b5a502d0723277604e\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or permanently. I like the way Carol Beaumont is thinking. That would be a very good solution to the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EEmployers have noted that the situation is much better. They have the ability to trial employees, and employees also have the ability\u2014it is not one-sided\u2014to try out a job that they might not be very certain in their minds about taking on in the first instance. ACT supports this bill. We will support the 90-day period and, as I said, we would be happy for it to be a bit longer. But 90 days is certainly better than nothing at all. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b091efee11ac46ff9c472a9488e18318\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b091efee11ac46ff9c472a9488e18318\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Here is a quote from the Labour Party: \u201CChoice is ridiculous.\u201D That is what one of those members said\u2014choice is ridiculous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022115ce6fe1ac748d5948796e12e99b8e9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: No, it was \u201CJoyce is ridiculous.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aec0692284f5495fb9f84bcd19fe5caf\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no, it could not have been that. Choice is ridiculous. Listen to how those words roll off the top of their tongues. Choice is ridiculous. Do members know why Labour members say that? It is because of that old thing they believe in that comes from the early 1920s\u2014in fact, earlier than that. It comes from the manifesto of the dictatorship of the proletariat. Those members really do believe that they are more with-it and more intelligent than the poor old worker out in the field. They will make the choice as to whether the Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) is good or bad for workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EHere is something else to ponder. Why is it that the union representative never goes out on strike with the workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b97d8dbc2d1144e995488a356b6dd60e\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: You mean they still get paid?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249643807873148ac92a094fb519e8c8f\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: They still get paid! A classic example of this occurred during the mining strike on the West Coast not so long ago. The miners\u2019 union was receiving money\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230f891630d424e7db25ce22512704190\u0022\u003ELynne Pillay\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member is on the wrong bill. The strike bill was debated last night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7811bf5355e4030af08a677d247e8da\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I am listening to the member; I will make a determination.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ddd3957afb44319bd3a0009c34b4580\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: It is about choice. The 90-day bill is about choice, the access issue is about choice, and that is why I was gobsmacked to hear the comments of the Labour Party members Carol Beaumont and Darien Fenton, who apparently were both good union representatives in their day\u2014in their day. But that day has gone, and we have those members harking back to the good old days when the union ran everything. It was, as my father used to say, a closed shop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EWhat is wrong with choice? There is nothing wrong with choice. People 2 years ago made a choice, and they voted for change. The amazing thing about this debate is that if we were to close our eyes and listen to the so-called left, it would be as if we were back in 1951. But those battles have been won and lost; they have been fought, they have been won, and they have been lost. Those members cry about workers\u2019 rights, the 90-day bill, and union access to workplaces. We hear the emotion of Carol Beaumont when she says that the change to union access to workers could lead to someone dying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed175ccec21d48588327b648548b9eae\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: It could do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bbb59023a5147f184d0b66644da1e70\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: For goodness\u2019 sake! In 100 years of industrial law, no one\u2014no one\u2014has died because of that. No one has died through lack of access to a union representative\u2014not once, not twice, not three times. And this is 2011, not 1951. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThis legislation is part of our programme to get the country back working, to get the country back on the road to economic prosperity, which is something that was absolutely lacking during the 9 years of the Labour Government. The outdated policies of the left-wing Government were absolutely lacking in that. Well, it thought it was a left-wing Government, but it was not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI enjoyed my time on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee and I give big raps to David Bennett, the chairman of that committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022 data-id=\u002210fb08aef5404bff93688a57df553ef7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210fb08aef5404bff93688a57df553ef7\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am appalled by the contribution of the member who has just resumed his seat, Tau Henare, on the Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2). I do not think it was even a contribution. It was shocking stuff. That member is absolutely languishing in the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227883c85e-a5bb-4a12-9962-80df55af0ecd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022777afa3a47e8498a80993ab0a0402ed1\u0022\u003EHone Harawira\u003C/span\u003E: Languishing, languishing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d0a57c12ead427688f6082dc8a79868\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly, and I know that that M\u0101ori Party member will be taking his call soon\u2014probably not tonight, but at the very next time that this bill is debated. Tau Henare\u2019s speech was absolutely shocking stuff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EHow many submitters were at the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228eaa5bbec640467c96cc4455ae7ca642\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: 8,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226fade21f7ad44cca2c850b18cafef37\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Eight thousand submitters said that this bill is ridiculous. I want to go back to what Carol Beaumont said earlier, and I will use young people as an example. What will it do for young people\u2019s self-esteem when they are sacked from their first job and they have to go home and say they have been sacked? What will it do to those young people? It will absolutely knock their confidence. Nicky Wagner is scowling over there. What is wrong with someone being told the reason? It is absolutely appalling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EWe heard the previous speaker talking about choice. Labour believes in choice. Where is the choice with the 90-day \u201Csack-at-will\u201D legislation? Workers have to take it or leave it. That is the workers\u2019 choice. Workers do not have the choice of saying they do not want to be sacked for no reason. They cannot say they want the protection of being told that they are not performing so they that can fix it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a0597c1d52a4aa68d27620a1107af16\u0022\u003EAllan Peachey\u003C/span\u003E: Could you sit down so I can speak before 6 o\u2019clock?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022108285f5d4244f25a2de9d9ddb105f65\u0022\u003ELYNNE PILLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think so. Where is the choice in the legislation? The choice for a new person in a job is to take it or leave it, and that is utterly appalling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EI think that members, Mr Assistant Speaker Roy, and everyone in this House will reflect on my final words this evening. As they leave this House they will think: \u201CWhere is the choice in this bill?\u201D Would that be right? When this bill is next debated, I will finish my speech. I think this bill is an absolutely shocking indictment in relation to the dignity of workers in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 6 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20101111809bdf5369d14a258dc9559aadcae83c000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd427be0-7196-4605-b39e-d665553240b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"