"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b6d2f1bedafa417c931d3345c5f7c5c3\u0022\u003ETuesday, 12 April 2011\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002246bf5d4e2be043b690f0501bfd692c2b\u0022\u003ETuesday, 12 April 2011\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f1c439aaeb024bbb87ace1dfc673348a\u0022\u003EList Member Vacancy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022af3fdbd8bee64a3faf617b5527ddf665\u0022\u003EList Member Vacancy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002207d024e8e50447ddab07b5b2bcc567ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207d024e8e50447ddab07b5b2bcc567ac\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have been advised by the Electoral Commissioner that, pursuant to section 137 of the Electoral Act 1993, Louisa Hareruia Wall has been declared to be elected a member of the House of Representatives in place of Darren Colyn Hughes. I understand that Louisa Wall is present and wishes to take the oath. Would she please come forward to the chair on my right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002278154e69b3ba49af86f18824f87673d7\u0022\u003EMembers Sworn\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bdf1849e5f9d4a5e9865f91cf63cf9e6\u0022\u003EMembers Sworn\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000009\u0022\u003EMr Speaker administered the Oath of Allegiance to Louisa Wall, who then took her seat in the House.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002251041f9130834029901ac142f8e7fac0\u0022\u003EVoting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aebda9f4cd24413d8abd92c253054e8e\u0022\u003ECorrection\u2014Appointments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00222b569765247f4df58bfa4c7592a11c46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b569765247f4df58bfa4c7592a11c46\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The vote on the question that the amendment in the name of the Hon Tariana Turia to the motion appointing the chairperson and members of the Abortion Supervisory Committee recorded the votes of three members as being cast for both the Ayes and the Noes. Further, one member\u2019s proxy vote was incorrectly exercised. I order that the vote be corrected by recording the votes of Lindsay Tisch, Jonathan Young, and Michael Woodhouse as being cast for the Ayes, and Allan Peachey\u2019s vote for the Noes. The correct result now stands as Ayes 31 and Noes 67, with one abstention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e1f26cfff37347d28be5a80e7d0e73bb\u0022\u003EMinisterial Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228541d13042534e37ae60256738b49d2d\u0022\u003EEarthquake, Christchurch\u2014Extension of State of National Emergency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u0022984df6abc7f64d8f98db3c41f9b39bd1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022984df6abc7f64d8f98db3c41f9b39bd1\u0022\u003EHon JOHN CARTER (Minister of Civil Defence):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to make a ministerial statement under Standing Order 347, in relation to a further extension of the state of national emergency in Christchurch city. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EToday, Tuesday, 12 April, I further extended the duration of the state of national emergency in Christchurch city under section 71 of the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act 2002. This is the eighth extension of the state of national emergency that applies specifically to Christchurch city since it was first declared on 23 February. I consider the extension to be necessary as it enables the national controller to continue exercising his powers and functions under the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act to further stabilise the situation in Christchurch City. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003ESome members have expressed interest in knowing about the authorities that the national controller has used during the state of national emergency. These include issuing statements concerning the emergency; the accommodation, feeding, and care of displaced people; entering premises to rescue people or ensure no one is trapped; the provision of air transport out of Christchurch using New Zealand Defence Force aircraft; cordoning, evacuating, and restricting access to the central business district and other areas; the demolition of unsafe structures; emergency works to dump earthquake rubble at Lyttelton; emergency works to discharge untreated sewage into rivers, estuaries, and the sea; emergency works, including the dumping of debris, at Burwood; emergency works to erect substations and overground power lines in the eastern suburbs; giving directions to people to stop activities that might cause or substantially contribute to the emergency, and requesting that people take action to prevent or limit the extent of the emergency; and carrying out inspections, which may include marking, seizing, sampling, securing, disinfecting, or destroying any property, animal, or any other thing in order to prevent or limit the extent of the emergency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EThe state of national emergency in Christchurch will be lifted when I am satisfied that the situation has stabilised sufficiently and that the powers available through the state of national emergency are no longer required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0e9ed38e7b4446da680961bb917b0d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0e9ed38e7b4446da680961bb917b0d4\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Labour does not intend to take a long period to debate the extension of the state of national emergency. I think it is fair to say that after eight repeats the Minister of Civil Defence is on his last chance this week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2aa388f406847568739982a32ae9325\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2aa388f406847568739982a32ae9325\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party supports the extension of the state of emergency. In fact, I ask the Government to consider extending it some more at a future time. As I understand it, the direction at the moment is to replace the state of emergency with the authorities granted to central authorities under the bill that is shortly to come before Parliament\u2014namely, I think, the Christchurch Earthquake Recovery Authority Bill; it is not on the Order Paper at the present time. That bill will apparently take over some of the authorities from civil defence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIn order to allow Parliament to have proper time to debate such a replacement, the preference of the Green Party would be to extend the state of emergency powers. This extension would allow proper, considered discussion of the bill to come before Parliament, with a proper select committee procedure. Particularly given that it will cover all of the different things covered in the Minister\u2019s statement and even go beyond that, as I understand it, to some central direction of planning\u2014which raises a whole lot of questions about local democracy\u2014it would be much better to extend the state of emergency for some weeks while we have a considered discussion of the bill that is about to come before Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002284408a796407470eb8fdb8af4e2b548c\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002229f970a250194ec49ea9f9289c371434\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227805a095e9464aa29b08130508cc480b\u0022\u003EFinance, Minister\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022a41c6b866e3b4c4da851c80668877497\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a41c6b866e3b4c4da851c80668877497\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he have confidence in his Minister of Finance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00226051561d60ca453591e64eb44c8a67f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226051561d60ca453591e64eb44c8a67f0\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Absolutely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0eab07bdd1f4a5288e104e99575213e\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with his Minister of Finance\u2019s statement that the fact that wages are 30 percent cheaper in New Zealand than in Australia is \u201Can advantage and a good thing\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ad0f3e58a5e494588fde7c38c58708e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I agree that it is likely to attract investment in certain areas, because the New Zealand workforce is highly skilled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8de1a3c0ca74cc5a90557aa7a55c13b\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: When he claimed on Television One that his finance Minister had been quoted out of context in saying that cheap wages were an advantage, what from the following quote of what Mr English was saying is not clear? Espiner: \u201Cyou said \u2026 that one of our advantages over Australia was that our wages were 30 percent cheaper. I mean, is that an advantage now?\u201D; English: \u201CWell, it is a way of competing, isn\u2019t it?\u201D. And, later, Espiner: \u201CBut is it a good thing?\u201D; English: \u201CWell, it is a good thing, if we \u2026 attract the capital \u2026\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269b8d219e1064b9580710ea39ad0bd97\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The finance Minister gave a speech in Auckland that was quite wide-ranging. That was one point that he made. But I would make the point that when one looks at real after-tax wages from September 2008 to the present point in time, one sees that in New Zealand terms they have grown 10 percent and in Australia they have grown 6.2 percent. On my calculation this Government has closed the gap with Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6f8a0cf44674bc48b857911c83702c6\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Nobody believes it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022862d66d7a26b452eb8bf5ab28fc821f5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6e5c26203124b1796d27ea0cf5584d9\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: With inflation under his Government in the last quarter at a 20-year high, does he think New Zealand workers facing a rising cost of living agree with him that having wages 30 percent lower than those of their Australian counterparts is an advantage and a good thing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299157d6b521449c394196ada954461cc\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: For a start off, the wage gap blew out under the 9 years of the Labour Government, so let us get a few things right. Secondly, inflation was higher because of the GST adjustment, which was fully adjusted for. New Zealand workers are happy that this Government has been cutting taxes and therefore lifting real after-tax wages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d23eb1cb9ba4660a305590280fc4e94\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Prime Minister go on pretending that the wage gap with Australia is closing, when the 2025 Taskforce, which he himself set up, reported last year, and I quote: \u201Cwe do not see any realistic possibility that the gap in real per capita income has narrowed in the past year \u2026\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285e1973f46fb42eebb84b9fa4ff71dc5\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: If anyone is pretending, it is Phil Goff to be the leader of the Labour Party, because it is about to be Andrew Little.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288ff96b7b1444c8db7dec421a05b714e\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f6781844db0466fb46db1c761fa3a6f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members know that when a point of order is called they must treat it with respect and silence. I have not asked anyone to leave the House for breaching that very strict rule, but my patience is wearing a bit thin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022747233ebfd424c65be5cb9dd2bcf8f7e\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Is it in order for the Prime Minister to answer in that way, simply because he knows that he is wrong\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259b5a0d90b6948f69101ebaa194dd018\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. I extended the member the courtesy of making sure the House was quiet for his point of order, and the point of order was fair enough in the way it started, but then it departed from what is acceptable by way of point of order. The reason why the Prime Minister answered in the way he did was the nature of the member\u2019s question. The member asked why the Prime Minister pretends something. When members ask that kind of question they will probably get an answer about why the Prime Minister pretends, or what pretentions there may be. It is the sort of question where, as Speaker, I cannot insist on any particular answer. The solution is in members\u2019 own hands, and they need to be a little more cautious with the language in questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222230784cdb424488af2afab08c4223a7\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Was the $43 million bail-out of MediaWorks by way of a deferred payment a loan under the Public Finance Act, as set out in the document that Mr English signed, or not a loan, as Mr English claimed on the television programme on Sunday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240b1b30dcd5d46e0985c345391b19d63\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have the public accounts with me, so I cannot confirm that. The member can look at it. But I will say one thing about that particular situation, and it is this. That deal was offered to any media company. Nine companies, from memory, took it up. A number of companies did not. If it was such a good deal, why did not every company take it up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022942a7d09b2194c62bda5de6757075099\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister have confidence in the Minister of Finance\u2019s decision to extend a taxpayer guarantee to four at-risk finance companies that could impose a liability on the New Zealand taxpayer of a further $1.7 billion? He did that in January.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf35d496a409487ea3b40ce501aba2da\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002293e58922b2934aa3b8aaae4025160a53\u0022\u003EEarthquakes, Canterbury\u2014Projected Government Spending\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022 data-id=\u0022a05f93d6b0784b59aa9bd96ce41fb831\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a05f93d6b0784b59aa9bd96ce41fb831\u0022\u003ECRAIG FOSS (National\u2014Tukituki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: How much does the Government expect to spend over the next few years to help rebuild Christchurch in the aftermath of the two earthquakes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00227606e990eee44b54b6ec0ae0564925b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227606e990eee44b54b6ec0ae0564925b0\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E At this stage the Government expects to spend about $8.5 billion over the next 4 or 5 years rebuilding Christchurch. The latest estimates put the direct cost to the Government of the two earthquakes at about $5.5 billion. The other $3 billion is the cost to the Earthquake Commission of paying the excess on its insurance. These will be fully provided for in the Budget next month. Of the $5.5 billion, about $3 billion relates to the taxpayers\u2019 share of local government infrastructure, insurance excesses on schools and hospitals, temporary housing, the costs already incurred in supporting businesses and making cash payments, ACC costs, and demolition costs. The remaining $2.5 billion will be allowed for to cover uncertainty and decisions that have not been made yet, particularly around land remediation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298bb8bbe8d404c5bb03d6256872bcf06\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: What impact are the earthquakes likely to have on the Government\u2019s tax revenue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022816ce64e823b4e00b77b799ee58cc2a2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Treasury had estimated that as a result of the two earthquakes and an economy growing more slowly than it had expected, tax revenue would be $3 billion to $5 billion less over the next few years. A small bit of good news is that current forecasts show that the loss of tax revenue will be just a bit less than $3 billion, rather than the higher figure of $5 billion. This will be finalised in the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b345f1302ec42b89a17e77a44a9b7e7\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: How significant are the costs of the two earthquakes, and how will the Government go about paying its share of those costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022272b6b1601fc43b4a4103ab3d7ad69f6\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The costs are significant, but they do not fundamentally change the economic situation or the Government\u2019s programme. They need to be put in the context of New Zealand\u2019s annual GDP of about $200 billion a year. So when we are talking about direct costs to the Government of $5.5 billion over the next 4 years, during that time total GDP will be about $800 billion. Meeting the Government\u2019s share will require quite a substantial front-loading of Crown debt in the next year or two, because we need the money now in order to start rebuilding now, and the Budget will clearly set out the Government\u2019s plan to return to surplus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c32d474724394312a4b4a0d2776ecda1\u0022\u003ECraig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Government prefer not to impose a special earthquake levy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267633587f0494053b415d104d175b1f9\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: When Kiwi families are under some pressure, particularly because their wage increases have not been significant, the last thing they need is a new tax. The Green proposal for a relatively small levy would need to stay in place for about a decade to pay for the quake, but particularly at this time, when we are absorbing these unexpected events but need to put them behind us and get on with growing the economy, we do not want to reverse the direction of tax cuts, which were intended to be an incentive for growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4a13639c18e42d8bca112026e0fa3b9\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has he received from Treasury or any other Government agency on the cost of providing income support to earthquake-affected Cantabrians once the Government\u2019s business support package is terminated in the next few weeks; if so, what was that advice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215162471ae5a44358b8c98079daa9032\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Really, the only advice we have received about that is the uncertainty of knowing what will happen, particularly when the employment support subsidy winds up. The point of the subsidy was to allow people sufficient time for a transition, during which a number of them will have to make quite difficult personal decisions about whether they can start up their business again or whether there is a job for them. We expect that as the package runs off, more Cantabrians will be applying for benefits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ad52b5d565dc4774bb5d201cd573df08\u0022\u003EHardship Assistance\u2014Minister\u2019s Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u002246119baed9f94a7493964223df68eb8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246119baed9f94a7493964223df68eb8b\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she stand by her statement in regard to hardship assistance that \u201C\u2026 I think it proves that the help is there when people need it,\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u002253bd854b29674a319bb34c3328714617\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253bd854b29674a319bb34c3328714617\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes; because hardship assistance payments were given to 51,000 people for the month of March 2008, but 91,000 were given out for the month of March 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e52cad118662482686b92516564762ec\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she tell the meeting of 48 budget advisers on Friday that it was her staff\u2019s fault for misinterpreting her instruction and not understanding her intent with regard to changes to hardship grants that have led to even more hardship for some people, and what will her new directive to staff be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256830f9e6dea40fba457035a6c50f5cc\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: That is not what I said to the budgeting services on Friday. I said to them that there is a leadership issue\u2014that it should start here, and then go through managers to front-line staff, who simply interpret what information comes to them. We said there should be budgeting activity. That was interpreted as meaning that everyone had to go to a budgeting service. We can look at changing that instruction so that we do not have quite the same number going through to budgeting services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea217823431145cda1bfe165eafd0b44\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: When she said on Television One on Friday night that there would be extra funding for budget advisers from unspent funds from this year\u2019s Budget, what increased figure did she have in mind to give them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d9f279873f0489db3e6dff559cf88c4\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: As I explained on Friday to those services, we are still working through that process. Family and community services are looking at how we can fill some of that gap, because we certainly recognise that they have had an increase and have had trouble filling it. We are looking backwards a bit to make sure we fill the gap for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fc1619d078e445cbcf96a8ddbc51c0d\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Why did it take 2 months for desperate budget advisers to get a confirmed meeting with her to discuss the explosion in the number of people being sent for budget advice, and why was the appointment confirmed only the morning after their spokesperson appeared on television?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d52ac4fe8f6f48f79a227d1c4bfb6270\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: That is not true. The meeting has been my diary for more than 3 weeks. To be fair, the request came through in mid-February, and we then had a wee thing called the earthquake, which meant that the next 3 weeks were taken up with trying to deliver aid\u2014which is what a Minister does and what one would expect. So when the budget advisers made the suggestion of the date, Friday, I confirmed it\u2014and it was actually weeks ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224580ae7e015d4c0898632483aea75036\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: What did the Prime Minister tell her about the difficulties that low-income New Zealanders are facing and the pressure that budget advisers are under in light of his statement last week that he regularly goes out to see social services, which leads one to assume that he knows what is happening to the so-called underclass in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f84fefb78eca402eb6b24496b41d2961\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: In all fairness, the comments the Prime Minister makes to me about social services and what they are delivering are so many that I do not have time to stand here and relate them to the Opposition. He follows what is happening in the different regions and with the different organisations all the time. He is rather forward in giving me his opinion on them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229175c62e41274df5baa41403e4520f63\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Will she now admit that she had no idea of the level of hardship that some New Zealand families are facing and the pressure and problems that community services have been trying to deal with, and does she think that turning up in a BMW\u2014with or without a heated seat\u2014removes her from the real world they are living in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bb31f25366f48b58503a7143880fdee\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I will not play politics with people\u2019s lives like that. I will say that\u2014[Interruption] It is about time you got riled up about something. What is happening as far as hardship assistance is concerned is that in March 2008, under the Labour Government, 51,000 payments were given out, at a cost of $12 million, and in March 2011 the National Government gave out 91,000 payments, at a cost of about $20 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1a9826035ec41ea8aa593fc55d7072e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I assure the Minister that the Speaker is not getting riled up about anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b9f4d02e47ba4cac9ccfe634ab064ef3\u0022\u003EColon Cancer\u2014Treatment of M\u0101ori Patients\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u00226c86c98839dc4d79aa4beb4b385e3d64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c86c98839dc4d79aa4beb4b385e3d64\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What action, if any, has been taken in light of the study Ethnicity and Management of Colon Cancer in New Zealand: Do Indigenous Patients Get a Worse Deal?, which concluded that M\u0101ori New Zealanders with colon cancer were less likely to receive adjuvant chemotherapy and experienced a lower quality of care compared with non-M\u0101ori patients?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6c38c2b8d6e455f94594c2656291156\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6c38c2b8d6e455f94594c2656291156\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E The study the member refers to was published in July last year and was based on data from 1996 to 2003. The study is, however, consistent with many earlier reports that show that access to cancer treatment for all needs to be improved further. The issues raised in the study were incorporated in the planning and design of the Government\u2019s $24 million bowel cancer screening programme announced last year, which is being piloted by the Waitemat\u0101 District Health Board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fe1acf3776945e6bb61bba6de1a7570\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: What explanation can be given for the fact that M\u0101ori were more likely to die during their post-operative period, significantly less likely to receive chemotherapy for stage III disease, and more likely to experience a delay of at least 8 weeks before starting chemotherapy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f96f0d7151c34f989c984564160cfb7e\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: There is a complex range of contributing factors and a range of opinions as to the relative weighting of those factors\u2014for example, socio-economic factors, and the proximity of treatment services. What I can say specifically on chemotherapy is that treatment times are now being much more actively monitored, and I am advised the latest data shows that no one has needed to wait more than 6 weeks to start chemotherapy, and most started within 4 weeks. That is a significant improvement from the time the survey was taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b3457dd49144e6caece62571bd7d861\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the article published in 2010 that attention to health system factors is needed to ensure equal access and quality of cancer treatment for indigenous and ethnic minority populations; if so, what is he doing to address these factors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228833c8aa6ff249968a06bf28fe1c77dd\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I think there certainly is a need to improve the services, as just stated by the member\u2014indeed, for all patients. That is one of the reasons why the Government is investing $24 million in a bowel cancer screening programme. The Waitemat\u0101 project will include 7,000 M\u0101ori in the pilot population. I can also advise the member that Pharmac has widened access to two additional drugs for bowel cancer: octreotide in July 2010, and capecitabine in October 2010.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e1df7bcb410749edbf6334633425ca3c\u0022\u003EElectricity\u2014Generation from Renewable Resources\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u002231dd1684f2a04aee815be90a68823847\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231dd1684f2a04aee815be90a68823847\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National\u2014West Coast - Tasman)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: What steps is the Government taking to increase renewable electricity generation in light of reports that greenhouse gas emissions from this sector have increased by 120 percent, which is more than any other sector since 1990?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002267f45c14b9f74d5d8267cfe4ae4510d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267f45c14b9f74d5d8267cfe4ae4510d0\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Our first step, in 2009, was streamlining the Resource Management Act with our new national consenting process that enables timely decisions on projects. Our second step, in 2010, was the introduction of the emissions trading scheme, which provides a competitive advantage for renewable generation over thermal generation. The third step, which we are taking today, is the new national policy statement on renewable electricity generation. It provides clear direction to our 78 councils on the importance of renewables, and consistent and clear rules to enable the development of New Zealand\u2019s wind, geothermal, hydro, and tidal energy resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b379ca85e769425d83bf580723af2531\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: What interventions have Governments made in the last decade affecting electricity generation, and how have these interventions affected greenhouse gas emissions from the sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f4be9fbbba14062abb7a3a059cfa94f\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: An intervention was made in 2003, with the then Government deciding to build the new diesel-powered generator at Whirinaki. The Government further intervened in 2005 to underwrite the investment in the very large e3p gas turbine at Huntly. In the last decade we also saw the proportion of New Zealand\u2019s electricity produced from burning coal more than double. These decisions contributed to New Zealand\u2019s highest-ever electricity emissions in 2008, which was somewhat at odds with the then Government\u2019s policy of carbon neutrality. I welcome the fact that we have seen a record high investment in 2010 in renewable generation in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002240d4f8eeffa4421b864b7e31b6e7238d\u0022\u003ECompanies, Financial Support\u2014Government Guarantee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022d48628c8f86042a3aeb47cd0cc30cf85\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d48628c8f86042a3aeb47cd0cc30cf85\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Excluding the banks and non-bank financial institutions covered by the deposit guarantee scheme, are there any other companies that might be provided with a Government guarantee while the Rt Hon John Key is Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00222628b06b3d7743db85474946ebb24257\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222628b06b3d7743db85474946ebb24257\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. Crown guarantees and indemnities arise in many forms. For example, the New Zealand Export Credit Office has, since 2001, offered a wide range of working capital and credit guarantees to a large number of New Zealand exporters. There are numerous other examples of Crown guarantees, such as those by Housing New Zealand Corporation, Landcorp, New Zealand Railways Corporation, the Reserve Bank, and others. I refer the member to the fiscal risks chapter of each economic and fiscal update for more information about these guarantees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e2d93f40ef14bb19c4c0754daa04ed1\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept Treasury\u2019s advice, found at pages 30 and 32 of its paper entitled Crown ownership of commercial entities, that partly privatising the energy State-owned enterprises might create the perception of an \u201Cimplicit Crown guarantee\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242b36674076744c7b076c20ed1350f14\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Probably the single action that created the perception of implicit Government guarantees was the decision made by the previous Labour Government to offer a deposit guarantee to the banks. It is now taken as implicit that all our main banks have an implicit guarantee. In respect of State-owned enterprises, people will draw their own conclusions. It has not stopped a State-owned enterprise like Air New Zealand, under the mixed-ownership model, being a successful company.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fecebf6404a4b65a368bb60f1adf879\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Has he considered the possibility that an implicit Government guarantee, as described by Treasury, might incentivise risk taking by private investors who manage to get influence over a company, and that such risk could include asset stripping and a lack of reinvestment, the kinds of practices that forced the previous Government to buy back Tranz Rail and bail out Air New Zealand after they were run into the ground by private investors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b79c100c17b34ff78a1f8ffac073ee58\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Of course that is possible, but the Government is considering whether the tests it has laid out for the mixed-ownership model can be met. Those tests focus on maintaining majority Government ownership and providing an opportunity for New Zealanders, as preferential investors, to be able to invest in some sound, long-term companies, thereby encouraging more savings by New Zealanders and strengthening our capital markets, which badly need it after 9 years of the previous Labour administration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e4f9e9d08e741aa85637173750c865e\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: How have the guarantees of banks and financial institutions reduced under this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022227ada128c994950ae5dda9b7bf2bc01\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The coverage of the deposit guarantee scheme has narrowed considerably. The initial Crown scheme guaranteed 73 institutions with total deposits of $125 billion, and most of those organisations paid no fees. The current scheme, which charges commercial fees, covers just four institutions, instead of 73, and $1.7 billion of deposits, instead of $125 billion. The current scheme will cease from 31 December this year, and it is possible that at that stage we will be one of the very few developed countries that will have been able to get out of a Government guarantee of depositors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022011e2fa7b5e3413ba4aa2855fe7bece0\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the National Government has already spent billions of dollars on bailing out South Canterbury Finance, MediaWorks, and now, possibly, expenditures in relation to AMI Insurance, does he think it would be prudent to refrain from partly privatising New Zealand\u2019s energy infrastructure, eliminating the possibility that risky private sector practices could lead to future bail-outs of former State-owned enterprises?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022170637231b4c45158e6f876abe86ab06\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The two issues are unrelated. The Government has been very reluctant to enter into arrangements such as the support package for AMI Insurance, and the Opposition is giving the appearance of being against it, which is something that member should try to explain to policyholders of AMI Insurance who are sitting in their wrecked houses in Christchurch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206ff10d963d741a4948ab2db06335a44\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Is it worth risking the failure of an energy company through privatisation, when the advice he has received from Treasury says \u201Cthere is\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdf7b30980d84fd28dab30f05a2337d0\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265632c1399034016b93728dbe706d290\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the Minister may not like the advice, but it is there\u2014\u201Clittle evidence to suggest that privatisation would significantly improve the financial performance of many of the SOE companies.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9c8580d3d02400db1d8b7a617116d95\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The member needs to make up his mind whether it is a big change or a small change if it goes into the mixed-ownership model. Either hardly any benefits will come from it or it will be a major disaster. The Government is doing the work now to see whether the mixed-ownership model will meet the tests. I must say, though, that my colleague Simon Power has done a good job of tidying up the grossly irresponsible stewardship of our State-owned companies by the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e2b2fd8152fe4990bf3a2d6121c7f24f\u0022\u003EPetrobras\u2014Petroleum Exploration Permit\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022d93065db92f04ab284c2668f76c7413e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d93065db92f04ab284c2668f76c7413e\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth)\u003C/span\u003E to the Acting Minister of Energy and Resources: What is Petrobras able to do under the permit granted to it in the Rauk\u016Bmara basin?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u00221691168e20b2451a81c75d31b70604b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221691168e20b2451a81c75d31b70604b8\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA (Acting Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E Under the 5-year permit Petrobras can acquire and interpret 2-D and 3-D seismic data, and is consented to drill one exploratory well. At the end of the 5-year period, if Petrobras wishes to move on to extraction and production, a petroleum-mining permit will need to be applied for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7b4eae32cfb4a98b5411b54d31bd8ab\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: What activities have previously been undertaken in petroleum exploration and production in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3f145f3707a4440b0861bd6ce6af2e7\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand has a long history of petroleum exploration and production, dating back to 1864. In 2010, 18 seismic surveys were undertaken in New Zealand, and 59 exploration and development wells were also drilled. This demonstrates that petroleum activity is currently carried out regularly in New Zealand in a responsible manner. Petroleum is New Zealand\u2019s fourth-largest export earner. Last year it brought in $2.1 billion in revenue, and directly and indirectly employed over 7,000 people. The Government is committed to wealth-creating opportunities, including the potential in New Zealand\u2019s petroleum and mineral resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fa14185d39f46bea8775861449eecec\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the exploration permit issued to Petrobras, which clearly states that the company is obliged to drill, rather than consented to drill, within a 60-month period of commencing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289eab46a84c140e598adb7e245b74fdf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022686368fcc86e4575bb88918945a44f69\u0022\u003EPetrobras, Petroleum Exploration Permit\u2014Environmental Protection Provisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u00226bcf3bf973a04eaa9efae2077076b81d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bcf3bf973a04eaa9efae2077076b81d\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Acting Minister of Energy and Resources: What environmental protection provisions, if any, did the Government include in the permit granted to Petrobras to explore for oil and drill off the East Cape?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u00221a93dd25da4242f69b25ffe219d8577f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a93dd25da4242f69b25ffe219d8577f\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA (Acting Minister of Energy and Resources)\u003C/span\u003E: Petrobras, like all operators, must comply with applicable law and regulations in New Zealand for the activities it conducts, including the Crown Minerals Act, the Resource Management Act, the Maritime Transport Act, the Biosecurity Act, and the Health and Safety in Employment Act. Petrobras has also committed to complying with the Department of Conservation\u2019s guidelines for minimising acoustic disturbance to marine mammals from seismic survey operations, and has an independent observer on its survey vessel to ensure that is happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228320e342112148499562e496faa71289\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that outside the 12 nautical mile limit the Resource Management Act does not apply and that there is no requirement for resource consent or any equivalent environmental approval?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226aff96c732724c4e93accff8913fa96b\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: In New Zealand\u2019s exclusive economic zone and extended continental shelf, beyond the territorial sea, the Maritime Transport Act 1994, which is administered by Maritime New Zealand, applies when a party is operating a ship or installation for seismic survey, drilling, and production-associated activities. Under the Maritime Transport Act, safety and marine protection standards\u2014which are known as maritime rules, marine protection rules, and emergency marine protection rules\u2014apply, and operators must have maritime and marine protection documents. This is an issue on which my colleague the Minister for the Environment, Dr Nick Smith, has been actively working, as part of the Environmental Protection Authority reforms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d177fe348d64e21817910a3d291fdcd\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That was a very fulsome answer, but it did not go to the heart of my question, which asked about resource consent or equivalent environmental approval. The Minister referred to safety and other issues, but not to environmental approval. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1e0e5feb43f47b791d1f70e91af5ab8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The dilemma I have as the Speaker is that if the question had asked specifically about resource consent processes, it would have been much simpler, but it went on to ask about \u201Cor equivalent\u201D measures. In her answer the Minister appeared to me to be giving information about equivalent measures relating to other legislation that did have environmental protection implications. I cannot judge how comprehensive those are, but the member has further supplementary questions to pursue that issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d8e2b6769cf440689b30fea8f899869\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Why has a foreign oil company been permitted to explore and drill for oil in deep water when, according to the Ministry of Economic Development\u2019s review of offshore petroleum operations, there is a \u201Clack of an environmental permitting regime\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022707cb72583ce4e1799904cc7b9166b18\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: As I have previously answered, we have a sufficient legislative and regulatory regime in place to cover the permit that has currently been made available to Petrobras. We are addressing other, wider exclusive economic zone legislation as part of our work agenda. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d92a65784d34989b61710497854f726\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Government stand by and allow these ecoterrorists to humiliate New Zealand and cost us potential jobs and income?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228efdced6f646468fa9dc50ed28f05c71\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: Police are responsible for operational decisions, and they make those decisions independently of Ministers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2ee050678b84893a2277cac5d696fb3\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Given that there is no environmental permitting regime or requirements in the permit issued to Petrobras, how can the Government be sure that there will not be a catastrophic leak such as the one that occurred in the Gulf of Mexico last year? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c29cef127bf847b8b4b339598f7edfb6\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the premise of that question. In previous answers I have indicated the regulatory and legal regime that is in place to provide for environmental management. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d30111278884212a168d7b9f0cdd1f4\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: What action is the Government taking to enable people to go about their lawful, legal business in New Zealand waters, free from the harassment of eco-fascists who want to put New Zealand back into the Dark Ages? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2d192dd2ca647d4ba8db54845840c53\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think it is appropriate to refer to any New Zealanders as fascists, unless they wish to be so referred to. But, more than that, I do not see how the question is the responsibility of the Minister. It relates to law and order, and the primary question was set down for answer by the Acting Minister of Energy and Resources. I do not want to deprive the member of a question. I invite him to rephrase his question and try to bring it into line with the Minister\u2019s responsibilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221653c8a8540c47e7a65ca4abde5316a3\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: What action is the Government taking to enable people to go about their lawful business, which she as Minister has consented them to do, free from the harassment of these\u2014what could we possibly call them\u2014eco-protesters who want to put New Zealand back into the Dark Ages? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a991292cf8d64f19baad7122561f9e31\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: As the Prime Minister has said, and as I have repeated, protesters have the right to peacefully protest, but Petrobras has the permit to go about its survey business, and the rule of law will be upheld by police making operational decisions that are outside my portfolio. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a43a3f16cd64473a05c508c70ab7903\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister think that one part-time inspector will be sufficient to adequately monitor all offshore petroleum activities in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bedbd923be7847b1a048231b6c4dcb65\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: As I have already indicated, there is a comprehensive regime in place that involves hundreds, if not thousands, of public servants who carry out their responsibilities under that Act. We are also reviewing areas that we need to strengthen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f31d45f258b54730ac3eb335f8aa8d12\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Why has a foreign oil company been permitted to explore and drill for oil in our sensitive marine environment, with no prior consultation with directly affected iwi and hap\u016B?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ab54e7b501b41a1b824bda9eaefb11b\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: That is simply untrue. Both Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti Porou and Te R\u016Bnanga o Te Wh\u0101nau a Apanui were invited, on several occasions, to contribute to the permitting process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dc62aeca35a4b66b2a0068c321c0256\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government\u2019s contingency plan if there is a catastrophic oil spill or leak resulting from exploratory drilling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c94834771924a9faa03bd281940b0b9\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: Maritime New Zealand is responsible for ensuring that New Zealand is prepared for, and able to respond to, marine oil spills. The Marine Pollution Response Service consists of internationally respected experts, who manage and train a team of about 400 local, Government, and Maritime New Zealand responders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224791e447b9004b84934eda73a3e7d560\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022338b8fa026bf49b3962be346a7a8a433\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I believe that the member has had his six.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fc8e8670858461fae6343b0f7e23baa\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. We are exercising the extra supplementary questions we received from the Hon Chris Carter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eba86830f4fa41c980d0189be09d415b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I will allow the member to do that, but I ask that in the future the member makes sure I am advised of that. I was not advised of that, and normally I am required to be advised of that. But I will allow the member to ask his supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221daba15fc6af4bf790eaa566943e7adc\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Apologies, Mr Speaker; thank you for that. What resources or infrastructure does the New Zealand Government have to deal with a catastrophic oil spill that were not available to the American Government or BP Oil in the Gulf of Mexico?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223703318c941d4d0990a4cb7d94c2a53d\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: I believe that I answered the front end of that question in my last answer, and I have no responsibility for the US response. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d7fe77868eb4f34a855960008716587\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not think that the Minister addressed the question, let alone answered it, and I would appreciate a more direct answer than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022978ec64b3c5748c58de9bb590b84d182\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question was actually not an unreasonable question. It asked what mechanisms or resources the Government has to deal with an oil spill that were not available to the US. It may be that the Minister does not have that information, because she certainly does not have any responsibility for the US. If the Minister has any information on that, then it is not an unreasonable question. But if the Minister does not have any information on that, then it is perfectly reasonable for her to tell the House she does not have specific information on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2c7d969a807443a9bc50886b62ddaa6\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The response I gave to the previous question was that Maritime New Zealand is responsible for ensuring that New Zealand is well prepared, and that the Marine Pollution Response Service consists of internationally respected experts who train a team of 400 local, Government, and Maritime New Zealand responders. But as to whether they were made available in terms of the US response, I cannot answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d2cc520ba7e46eaa62ae13dd435509b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is now going further than necessary. I believe that I cannot take the matter further, because the Minister cannot be expected to have that information. I accept that the member\u2019s question was not an unreasonable question, but an answer to it would depend on whether a Minister has that specific information. I do not think we should take the further time of the House on that. The question specifically asked what extra facilities or resources we have, and all the Minister can outline is what we do have. That may or may not be extra, but we cannot expect the Minister to know what the US has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d797339f486d469b854bd395ebfbb08c\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table two documents. The first is a Ministry of Economic Development report of September 2010 entitled Comparative Review of Health, Safety and Environmental Legislation for Offshore Petroleum Operations, which states that there is a lack of an environmental permitting regime in the exclusive economic zone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229aff095ad601431cb3fd4d866d22d5a8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d5469a46e1f4a9eba2f67fcdd5f5d49\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Environmental Defence Society\u2019s submission on the Ministry of Economic Development offshore petroleum review, which provides evidence that the inspection office is severely under-resourced, with only one part-time inspector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e11ed8eadcf41b2aafb1954434932fb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220999f0fd0c484a33a7b928c045a31392\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The matter has just come up, and I ask you to reflect on it. Speaker Hunt made a new ruling in this House by allowing parties to shift the day on which they would ask a question, or, indeed, enabling parties to shift questions from one party to another. We have just had an instance of the apparently Independent member Chris Carter not asking his question when it came up, but, rather, transferring it to the Greens. I ask you to reflect on whether that is allowed under the rules, and, indeed, whether it should be allowed under the rules. Chris Carter gets a question once in a blue moon. If he cannot be bothered coming here to ask the question, he can actually postpone it to another day. And he was actually elected as a member of the Labour Party, not the Greens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244a37ae170ac46e6aca933e995f028b9\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Far be it from me to defend Chris Carter, but I would just like to remind Mr Hide that his party has come to Labour in order to request supplementary questions be transferred in that very way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e21a6fb157dd46f993d9e680f71cce23\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not believe we need to take this matter any further today. Supplementary questions are always at the discretion of the Speaker, because there are not rules over this matter. What the Speaker did establish\u2014during Speaker Hunt\u2019s time, as the Minister pointed out\u2014is that supplementary questions can be transferred provided that the Speaker is advised. Today the Speaker was not advised. I re-emphasise the point. I allowed the supplementary question to be transferred. We keep track of how many questions are available to Independent members so that they cannot transfer more than they have available to them in the course of a week. We keep track of all of that, but the Speaker must be advised. In the future I will not allow the transfer of a question unless I am advised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c2a5621b5e343c9b3c4930d371be6b5\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I ask you to reflect. Normally, you have ruled that one should not use the point of order process to cast aspersions on other members of the House or to make political points. Mr Hide clearly said in reference to Mr Carter that Mr Carter could not be bothered to turn up, which was clearly a negative connotation to put on Mr Carter. He was using the point of order process in a manner that it was never designed to be used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226b268a2019443e18e8897d938a84485\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I hear what the member said, and he will note that I did get to my feet and cut off the Minister before he had completed his point of order, for those very reasons. I felt he was starting to depart from the proper process for a point of order. If I was perhaps a little slow in getting to my feet, I do apologise for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234b86ef34519458687029f69f800ba57\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Just for future reference, Mr Speaker, what assurance do you need as Speaker that, in fact, an Independent member of Parliament has allowed their question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022799c7e758a414d16a01d47cb65c7ae81\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We do not need to take further time on this. The Speaker, of course, must be satisfied of that. That is why the Speaker must be advised\u2014so that the Speaker can keep track of all these things and make sure it is all done in a proper manner, and we do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002299970d98b3c7451a852075ad8bf1db00\u0022\u003EMediaWorks, Payment Arrangement\u2014Confidence in Ministers Involved\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6489ead10064b22a3ad85f63ac1abf4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6489ead10064b22a3ad85f63ac1abf4\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he have confidence in all Ministers involved in the MediaWorks frequency payment arrangement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c54c470ce7534f54b66dc4c90fc7704e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c54c470ce7534f54b66dc4c90fc7704e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f41780d65d34f7aba831b91a6d74010\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Steven Joyce\u2019s statement of 10 March 2011 that there was no Government loan to MediaWorks, and with a similar statement on Q\u002BA last Sunday made by Bill English?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ffdbcb4af594218ade056a3e639583e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297c69cd52b1c429195eb5089845cf4ea\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, did the arrangement require the approval of the Minister of Finance as a loan under section 65N of the Public Finance Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb68a1897914913a979332ffb9db6bc\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Because that was the accounting treatment required under the Public Finance Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022892b434079f44bb7b8a7976f429eb504\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Was Cabinet advised that this arrangement was a loan requiring the authority of the Minister of Finance under the Public Finance Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c57b7f17c7ce443e8acd4b2fd3aad013\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Not to the best of my knowledge, but I do not have the papers with me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7fa6748d3c7431587db8f12b9540f62\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Did he personally sign, or give a specific authorisation for his electronic signature to be attached to, his original answers to written questions Nos 2043 and 2044 in 2011, which said that he had not had any discussions with the board or senior management of MediaWorks about the deferral scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b8fd0a95a8b4ebdace59498b904cf31\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: From memory it was about \u201Cmeetings\u201D. I did not have a meeting with them; I ran into Brent Impey at a function. In the newspapers he is actually described as saying that he was just showing me around. He said he would like to come and see me about the licence. That was it. It was very light. The conversation was a couple of sentences. I have hundreds of encounters like that with people every week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bb62fe3baaf427ba5a4e1069f55fee6\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am somewhat at a loss. I know that we are not allowed to table answers to written questions and we are not allowed to argue about answers. But the Prime Minister said the question was about meetings. I have his reply, which was about discussions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221233f06807d046debbebcda0a42aff72\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows he cannot litigate by way of point of order an answer given. He can put down further questions in the future if he wishes to pursue a matter, and he can ask further supplementary questions today, of course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8bfb879ed5841f4a7335639f7bd0e22\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Did he read the advice from Deloitte in its report on this proposal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd2283ec9db145b7aac9d73c79bbcac8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: To the best of my knowledge, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282df4f1e97524c5facd888b4f16c51d5\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Was he told that the Deloitte conclusion was that \u201Cthe licence purchases at the prices contracted with the Ministry should be affordable without compromising the longer term financial viability of the companies \u2026 This conclusion does not change, even for the worst-case scenario modelled.\u201D, and that this issue was a problem of the low capitalisation of MediaWorks by its Australian private equity owners; if so, what is the public interest in bailing out Australian companies that do not properly capitalise their New Zealand subsidiaries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227066b45a3a3a4f5ca0ba9518e24ff43b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: At the time the Government approved that offer, it was approved for a number of companies. Every company in that sector was able to take up the offer. It was brought to us by the Radio Broadcasters Association and it was considerably changed by Cabinet. The fact that some companies chose not to take up the offer shows that it was not as good a deal as that; if it was a sweet-heart deal, every company would have taken it up. I might add that members on the Opposition benches seem terribly confused, because last week David Cunliffe\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022374ef677e09148d483c7444f130649ee\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I think the answer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a0b95ba87fe4824b4a353efab89759c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: It is quite a salient point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226717b962675f4e68b1825aa7d567856f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Opposition does not deserve to be attacked. Accusing\u2014[Interruption] I am on my feet. Accusing parties or members of being confused in this place is kind of an attack. The Prime Minister had given a perfectly good answer and did not need to add that last bit to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002220cf608b719148f2bb3ee8e09bf35357\u0022\u003EEarthquake, Christchurch\u2014Support from Inland Revenue Department\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022 data-id=\u002255fdd62de0454ad2abf54f11fa1c9a50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255fdd62de0454ad2abf54f11fa1c9a50\u0022\u003EAARON GILMORE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Revenue: What has Inland Revenue done to assist the people in Christchurch after the February earthquake?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u002299f1e9d15eb54e26a07fe1e6fc0a1504\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299f1e9d15eb54e26a07fe1e6fc0a1504\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E The Inland Revenue Department has responded both nationally and locally to this extraordinary event. Initially the response was focused on communicating to taxpayers that they should focus first on family and friends, and not on tax. Subsequently Inland Revenue Department has also been working with the Ministry of Social Development to deliver the earthquake support package. The second stage of support has been focused on addressing issues with regard to ongoing tax compliance and helping taxpayers to get back on their feet. In that regard Inland Revenue Department has applied all tax discretions available to it to Canterbury people who have been affected by the earthquake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291a35fceb7ab4fd2aef824bea8a4f7c6\u0022\u003EAaron Gilmore\u003C/span\u003E: What policy changes has the Government announced as a result of the earthquakes, and how will they help the people of Christchurch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232d853848d3c48c39fa40233012c48ef\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE\u003C/span\u003E: A number have been announced. I made an announcement this morning regarding depreciation roll-over relief and the recognition of employer welfare contributions made to staff not being taxable. We have also provided an exemption so that businesses do not have to pay tax or gift duty on trading stock donated within 4 months of either the September or the February quakes. We are proposing to extend the redundancy tax credit to 30 September this year in order to alleviate the impost of use-of-money interest on late payments of tax. The commissioner will use his discretion to extend statutory tax dates on a case by case or class by class basis, and we have exempted certain payments made to families who receive Working for Families tax credits as a result of the earthquakes from having to count as income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022338150c16da04f4482f9c41d2f49f394\u0022\u003EMinisterial Vehicles\u2014Replacement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00224a043b8f5b454cc6a9448c30285c9e79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a043b8f5b454cc6a9448c30285c9e79\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister responsible for Ministerial Services: Does he stand by his statements in relation to the purchase of 34 BMWs by Ministerial Services, including one with heated seats, that \u201CYeah I don\u2019t know what\u2019s in Dunedin\u201D and \u201CIt\u2019s beyond me, it\u2019s not my car anyway\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u00221196375c3f994951ab3c0a737683a196\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221196375c3f994951ab3c0a737683a196\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Minister responsible for Ministerial Services):\u003C/span\u003E No, and the reason is that that was not my statement. I have a copy of the transcript and it states: \u201CThat\u2019s what I said. I don\u2019t know why it\u2019s in Dunedin.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213223226539b44fca3680d9594985c1f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question, Grant Robertson. [Interruption] I have called Grant Robertson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248a5b9a0b10d488eb65361a43aa4e4da\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: How are things in the fourth form, Nick?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4cdce055c2c464d9efad0543fdae08d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. When I call a member to ask a supplementary question, the microphone is open and there will not be that kind of interjection. But, then, the House should be more orderly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa24de7628cf486d826b0f8be22cd5e0\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: As Minister responsible for Ministerial Services, is he responsible for the 2010-11 budget of Ministerial Services, as Gerry Brownlee told the House in February?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bca37794d36456b9c792e3070f050f8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8d4175b01704238840c08465ad3845e\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that the decision to replace the VIP transport fleet was put to him, as Minister responsible for Ministerial Services, four times through March and April 2009 as part of the statement of intent process, and that as Minister responsible he signed off on those documents on each occasion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022770bba25ae374c9e9d6f0bc4a8b7afb5\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is not correct. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278e63e2609b945b2887f481ef3668110\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a Department of Internal Affairs briefing note of 18 February 2011 that lists the four occasions on which the Minister signed off the statement of intent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6f9fd44c2da47f58b355449ef0c94d9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I say\u2014and it is very much to the Labour front bench on this occasion\u2014that points of order will be heard in silence. I will not predict when I will evict the first person for abusing that, but I will not tolerate it further. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Did I see objection? No, there is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e85b8362277341459cf5fc568aa87352\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Can he see why, given that he is the Minister responsible for the VIP transport fleet, he was told about the fleet replacement, and he signed it off four times, perhaps people might expect just a little bit more responsibility than his channelling of Bart Simpson with his: \u201CI didn\u2019t do it. No one saw me do it. It\u2019s not my car anyway.\u201D, routine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297512bf98a5c40eb950e3666e40b51a9\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The statement of intent does not say what he says; it says that they \u201Cmay\u201D replace the fleet. There was no proposal that was given to me. In relation to the add-on extras commented on in the papers yesterday, none of those were brought to my attention. The decisions were made by Ministerial Services, with no reference to me or any Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ca216885fb94aa5a61be226dfedf345\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Is he responsible for the processes in Ministerial Services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f2cb6a5d339470e9ebf781bb054e5ec\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. It depends. [Interruption] It depends on the circumstances. I was not responsible for this particular instance, because it was not brought to my attention, and there was no reason for it to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af433bd4689c420b9ca76296cf94585a\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Can he assure the House that there will now be no further additional expense to the taxpayer as a result of the decision of the Minister of Finance\u2014communicated to the media\u2014to refuse to use the Dunedin-based BMW, given that his other option is his self-drive ministerial car, which is likely residing, along with its owner, in Karori, Wellington? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9d6c8c6e0084b1db6b2ccffbd2caa65\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The decision to buy a heated seat for the car was made by Ministerial Services, without reference to me. At the point at which it was brought to my attention, when I was answering a parliamentary question, my office rang Ministerial Services and asked whether it was possible to remove that extra, because it was not wanted by the Government. The answer that was given was that the cars had been ordered\u2014under the Labour contract, I might add\u2014and were on the water. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f0cd045440e45ec8d680b8820606d14\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0a32cde7b0c419e8153ee39c40747dd\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Are members going deaf? The point of order was called very clearly, and members know that they must cease interjecting. The problem is so many members are interjecting that I would have half the House out if I were to evict the offending members. But I would ask members to respect the Standing Orders of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224be24ae38a8c4e59af5f2a974aa2c358\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: My question asked the Minister whether he could assure the House that there would not be any additional expense as a result of the Minister of Finance\u2019s decision not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e09421c50e564ccc811adb3d70d62a30\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member\u2019s question was so coloured that he was kind of lucky he got the detailed answer that he did. If members want to get straight answers, they have to ask pretty straight questions. The member heard a very good example of that today where one of his colleagues asked a set of very straight questions and got some pretty straight answers. But if members dress their questions up with cleverness, they will get clever answers. They should not seek my help as Speaker, if they do not get the answer they might be looking for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2095d8177324d72800d924b7d056b89\u0022\u003EFisheries, Ministry\u2014Compliance Operations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022 data-id=\u002225fd645f6ada4098827f1ddc08b27da2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225fd645f6ada4098827f1ddc08b27da2\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture: What has been the result of enforcement action taken by the Ministry of Fisheries under Operation PAID and Taskforce Webb?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u00220adf8270737b4fc295ef35ffbba7f577\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220adf8270737b4fc295ef35ffbba7f577\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture):\u003C/span\u003E Last month the offenders involved in Taskforce Webb were sentenced. Aurora Fisheries Ltd and Kanai Fishing, along with key individuals involved, were convicted and fined a total of $840,000, bringing the total penalties in relation to this case to $4.1 million. This is the most significant penalty ever achieved by the ministry, and is a signal of the seriousness that the courts place on fisheries offending. Secondly, Operation PAID\u2014a 2-year operation\u2014netted a total of 53 defendants, who faced 321 charges. Most of the defendants have now been sentenced, 28 of them to prison time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002286ec1373ef1841ae9331cc6a37a2dd2c\u0022\u003EAppointments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022becba9b7fa8f4e25a13da10254363515\u0022\u003EAssistant Speaker\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u00229aa6964b1f634643abd5c2075f6e6a63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229aa6964b1f634643abd5c2075f6e6a63\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Acting Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to move a motion without notice to appoint an Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d10fce5d588740a2878ca200dca1f5c5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dc0d8fd4be34801b4a5f993682febb8\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That H V Ross Robertson be appointed Assistant Speaker. Kia ora and good afternoon. Ross Robertson was born on 22 May 1949, which makes him a Gemini on the cusp of Taurus. I am advised that as a pair of bull-headed twins, people of this sign are fascinated with gathering as much information as possible, and their facility as communicators is unmatched. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003ETo find out what motivated Mr Robertson to enter politics after a 20-year career in management, I tracked down a conference speech he gave in 1996. In his own words: \u201CI was attracted to stand for Parliament in 1987, 3 years into what is now regarded as the great modern experiment in economic reforms among the OECD nations. I enrolled into a Labour Party with a strong and well-communicated point of view about creating wealth and well-being. I delighted in the sense of a unified and broad spectrum caucus.\u201D I am sure those sentiments are just as strong today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EMembers of the House know Mr Robertson for his unwillingness for the Chair to be drawn into the debate, his respect for M\u0101ori language and protocol, his potent use of members\u2019 notices of motion, and, of course, his scarves. But I ask how many of us knew that he has represented Auckland and Wellington in rugby at various levels and has coached softball and soccer at provincial level, or that he was New Zealand\u2019s representative at the Regional Parliamentary Workshop on Small Arms and Light Weapons in Tbilisi, Georgia in 2006. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003EMembers on this side of the House know Ross Robertson as a member with the utmost respect for this institution and its public face. Although he has yet to find support for a code of conduct for his members, I have no doubt that appointing Ross Robertson as Assistant Speaker will indirectly improve standards in the House through the unimpeachable example set by the member himself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u0022468deb2f93124215b99df530cd98fe9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022468deb2f93124215b99df530cd98fe9b\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I stand with some mixed emotions about this motion. I have held the position that Mr Ross Robertson is about to assume for some time, and I have thoroughly enjoyed my time in the Speaker\u2019s eyrie in the Chamber. One looks down upon the members and gains a particular perspective that one does not get from sitting on either the Government benches or the Opposition benches. It is a very interesting position from which to view the House, and it gives one a greater appreciation of the institution. I am very happy to support this motion, because Ross has previously performed this function incredibly well. Ross is well known for swotting up on his Standing Orders and his Speakers\u2019 rulings. He has the most annotated books of Standing Orders of the House of Representatives and Speakers\u2019 Rulings that I have seen. He constantly reviews them, and on nearly every occasion that Ross gives a ruling he will refer members to, say, Speaker\u2019s ruling 97/3, and he will say it almost off by heart. He is assiduous in his study of the work. Mr Robertson is indeed an unimpeachable person in this House as far as the Standing Orders are concerned. On behalf of the Labour Party, I have the greatest pleasure in supporting this motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce0af019b28f4a8db7a1f2e423037004\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce0af019b28f4a8db7a1f2e423037004\u0022\u003EH V ROSS ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Manukau East):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora t\u0101tou. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou matua Mr Speaker. It is with humility that I gratefully accept the honour that my parliamentary colleagues have offered me\u2014to serve in this House as one of their presiding officers, and this is not my first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThis Parliament, the forty-ninth Parliament of New Zealand, is blessed with many new talents, alongside seasoned politicians who are well accustomed to the delicate difference of opinion in this place. I will ensure that every member has the fullest opportunity to define, defend, and deliver his or her vision according to the letter of the Standing Orders and Speakers\u2019 Rulings and in the spirit of engagement that our public expects. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThis is a robust Parliament, a place for full and vigorous debate, but contributions will be made with respect for the traditions of the House as enshrined in our Standing Orders. This is a place where continuous streams of ideas are tested according to our Standing Orders and Speakers\u2019 rulings. It is like a river that flows from bank to bank so that its true potential is realised for all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EI received an email from a seasoned parliamentary observer following the announcement that I was to be nominated as an Assistant Speaker. It read: \u201CRoss is back\u201D, but he thought those words applied to Winston Churchill returning as First Sea Lord. My duty is to keep debate within the Standing Orders. After all, these are the rules crafted from well over a century and a half of parliamentary practice in New Zealand, and it is my duty to ensure that they are upheld. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EI trust that we will work together, t\u0101tou t\u0101tou, to ensure that this House grows in public esteem, for courtesy is contagious, and we will all prosper if we keep within the Standing Orders. Tihei mauri ora! T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002248943d6a5b5b48f7b2df606194046ef3\u0022\u003EEnvironmental Protection Authority Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222109e56d1abf4222ab602efd1d330cb8\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000218\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 7 April.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u00225aafce4d4d5047f888dc5fba24390e7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225aafce4d4d5047f888dc5fba24390e7b\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to be the first to congratulate Ross Robertson on reassuming the position of Assistant Speaker. My colleague Grant Robertson was saying how proud he is to be related to Ross and to bear the same name. I think in their quieter moments together, he actually calls him uncle. I offer my congratulations to Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d75d6b246677466fb943bee10832b62b\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek just a small matter of clarification. Although I have great respect for my colleague Ross Robertson, I am not related to him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7a8c1fbdbed4803bf6d5ab3bbf4832f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House has departed from the Standing Orders considerably in the last few minutes, but let us return to our Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244b57724eca94cc4b87395367533479d\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is true that we can choose our friends, but we cannot choose our relations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EWe were talking about the Environmental Protection Authority Bill. When the debate was interrupted last Thursday, I had just finished congratulating my colleague Stuart Nash on an eloquent, detailed, and well-thought-out speech. I congratulate him again on that speech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe second point I had made was that Sue Kedgley from the Green Party had said that this bill is full of double-speak. One of the areas where the Environmental Protection Authority Bill has double-speak is in its title. We would expect an environmental protection authority to have in its mission statement or its vision some sort of statement that it was there to protect the environment. The truth is that such a statement does not exist. In fact, the Environmental Protection Authority\u2019s objectives are inadequate. They do not expressly require the Environmental Protection Authority to protect the environment, at all. Instead, as the bill is currently worded, the objective of the Environmental Protection Authority is to \u201Cundertake its functions in a way that\u2014(a) contributes to the efficient, effective, and transparent management of New Zealand\u2019s environment and natural and physical resources;\u201D. There is nothing in that clause about the authority actually protecting the environment, which is why I agree with Sue Kedgley when she says that the bill is full of double-speak. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ELast night I was at a community meeting in Wellsford, which is north of Auckland. The reason for the meeting was the Kaipara turbine decision. Also raised at the meeting was the issue of the Rauk\u016Bmara situation whereby, according to many M\u0101ori, the marine environment is under attack. I raise the fact that in the bill there is no provision for the Treaty of Waitangi. I wonder\u2014and I ask the M\u0101ori Party\u2014why the M\u0101ori Party has allowed the bill to go ahead without any reference to the Treaty of Waitangi. M\u0101ori Party members stand in the House and claim over and over again that they speak for our people\u2014for the M\u0101ori people. I wonder why I am standing here as a M\u0101ori member of a mainstream party, the Labour Party, and I am the only one asking where the reference to the Treaty of Waitangi is. What has happened so that the M\u0101ori Party members have forgotten to include reference to the Treaty of Waitangi in the bill? Why has Hone Harawira, who says he is the independent voice of Te Tai Tokerau, not yet taken a call and asked where the references in the Environmental Protection Authority Bill to the Treaty of Waitangi are? If there was reference to the Treaty of Waitangi and if there was concern for M\u0101ori issues, we probably would not have the situation we have off the East Coast of the North Island, where Ng\u0101ti Porou and Te Wh\u0101nau-a-Apanui are protesting that their concerns regarding the marine environment have not been heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe bill \u201Cmakes provision for a M\u0101ori Advisory Committee, to be appointed by the EPA board, to provide advice to the EPA from a M\u0101ori perspective on matters relating to policy, process, and decision-making.\u201D If the Government is genuinely concerned about the M\u0101ori perspective on matters relating to policy and process, I suggest that it meet with wh\u0101nau and hap\u016B in kanohi ki te kanohi\u2014face-to-face\u2014hui. The Government would no doubt be told the perspective of each wh\u0101nau and hap\u016B in relation to environmental matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EEach hap\u016B and iwi has spent a number of years developing environmental plans. Those environmental plans spell out exactly what M\u0101ori want for their environment. Face-to-face consultation, meetings, and discussions with wh\u0101nau and hap\u016B are needed, rather than a M\u0101ori advisory committee. I ask what the people in a committee that is brought together from all parts of the country\u2014I am not quite sure how many people would be on the advisory committee; maybe there would be half a dozen\u2014know about issues relating to, say, the Rauk\u016Bmara Basin, the Northland Basin, the Reinga Basin off the north-western coast, or even the Puhi Puhi Valley in the north. There are real concerns by Ng\u0101ti Wai and Ng\u0101ti Hau as to the impact in that valley of what the Government intends in terms of mining and seismic surveying and all those sorts of issues. I say to the Government that it needs to meet and have face-to-face hui with wh\u0101nau and hap\u016B so that the Government knows what they want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fff56bad59e04b0598ffe8805a724098\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t turn up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ca57087d6814342ab152dcebae99d4b\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is calling out. I go back in the bill to where it states: \u201Cthe EPA is to undertake its functions in a way that contributes to the efficient, effective, and transparent management of New Zealand\u2019s environment,\u201D. M\u0101ori want transparency. When the Petrobras decision was made, the Minister of Energy and Resources\u2019 idea of consultation and transparent communication with Ng\u0101ti Porou was to give Api M\u0101huika a phone call an hour before the media were informed that Petrobras had been given the contract for the oil exploration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225421a27c6335440e8bf35645c1b35178\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcf2f8b8e60845e9bf6ed8fa5b3f72d1\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister says that it is not true, but that is how it was reported. Hopefully, the Environmental Protection Authority will live up to the transparent part of the consultation, because the Government\u2019s track record in relation to the Rauk\u016Bmara Basin and the letting of the oil exploration permit has not been transparent. That is why Ng\u0101ti Porou and Te Wh\u0101nau-a-Apanui have had a flotilla off the East Coast with people jumping in the water, protesting, and trying to stop the seismic survey. They are concerned about what will happen to the marine environment. We all know the story. We saw what happened last year over in the Gulf of Mexico. That is the concern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EIf M\u0101ori had the opportunity for decent consultation and were able to put their views out there, and if the Government met with the right people, then a lot of the angst would be alleviated. Instead, decisions are being made that M\u0101ori are not able to participate in fully. Their iwi and hap\u016B environmental plans are not truly being taken into account. That is why there are M\u0101ori who are annoyed. Things are happening to them, and instead of their being engaged in the decision making they are standing up and saying that they do not accept it and they want to halt things. If they were fully involved in the decision making and were active participants in it, we would see a lot better progress than we are seeing now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ELabour opposes the bill and the proposed Environmental Protection Authority. At this stage I do not think there will be benefits to M\u0101ori. I say again that it is sad that the M\u0101ori Party members have not stood up and explained why they have not included Treaty of Waitangi clauses in the bill. It is an indictment on them. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9f29555b4fd4ff9b43165269550cb24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9f29555b4fd4ff9b43165269550cb24\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E The M\u0101ori Party is pleased to speak on the second reading of the Environmental Protection Authority Bill. As Mr Davis said, the M\u0101ori Party has not spoken on this bill at second reading, but we are taking the opportunity to do so now; I thank Mr Davis for the invitation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWe welcome any consideration of the protection and preservation of our environment, as it is in keeping with our long-held traditions and values. Any steps that actively seek to take responsibility for caring for our environment are in themselves an expression of kaitiakitanga\u2014the spiritual and cultural guardianship of Te Ao M\u0101rama. Tangata whenua view such responsibility as an obligation and a privilege derived from whakapapa. We see that this bill provides the opportunity to breathe life into this responsibility, elevating many of the proposals of national significance and issues that were called in under the Resource Management Act 1991. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EConsultation on this bill was undertaken with M\u0101ori and iwi leaders, and advisers through Te Puni K\u014Dkiri. I was advised that the key themes to emerge from M\u0101ori consultation were that M\u0101ori representation on decision-making boards should be increased to at least two representatives, that there is support for the establishment of a statutory M\u0101ori advisory committee, that the committee should not be seen as a substitute for local iwi engagement, and that iwi had a preference that the Environmental Protection Authority be established as a stand-alone Crown agent. Each of these consultation themes could, of course, warrant further analysis and debate, and we hope to do so through the Committee stage of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWe want to raise some issues for further consideration at this reading. As we understand it, the Environmental Protection Authority will undertake all of the functions currently performed by the Environmental Risk Management Authority under the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act. It will also undertake administrative and registry functions for the emissions trading scheme under the Climate Change Response Act. These are weighty functions in their own right. But it might be important to also consider the opportunity for a wider mandate to provide advice on issues such as wider environmental management, the Resource Management Act, water, and suchlike. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWhat is unclear in this bill is precisely how the establishment of the Environmental Protection Authority will affect M\u0101ori environmental committees, advisory boards, and governance groups currently operating. We are certainly interested in participating in further discussion with the Minister for the Environment about the nature of the Crown-M\u0101ori engagement processes on natural resources within the Ministry for the Environment, and how that engagement will input into the structure of the Environmental Protection Authority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWe note too that the Local Government and Environment Committee has recommended that the Environmental Protection Authority board members not be eligible for appointment to the M\u0101ori advisory committee, amending clause 17 in Part 2 by inserting new subclause (2A). We will be actively seeking comments from wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi about this particular proposal. We understand that the Environmental Protection Authority board will consist of six to eight members, of which at least two members are required to have knowledge of, and experience in, the Treaty of Waitangi and tikanga M\u0101ori. The board is also required to appoint a statutory M\u0101ori advisory committee and to agree to its terms of reference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EI note our significant support for the appointment of Anake Goodall to the Environmental Protection Authority establishment board, which the Minister announced last month. Mr Goodall has acquired a very distinguished reputation as chief executive officer of Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu. He was chief executive officer from November 2007 until February this year, when he announced he was standing down\u2014a huge loss to Ng\u0101i Tahu. He has 35 years\u2019 experience in management and organisational leadership, with particular strengths in environmental protection and enhancement, and community capacity building. The M\u0101ori Party is very pleased with this appointment and believes that through Anake\u2019s membership on the board there will be considerable leadership from tangata whenua in the establishment phase. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWe note also that establishment of the authority will not prevent M\u0101ori from having a direct relationship with the Crown on policy and other strategic matters related to natural resources. Of course, a complex and sophisticated policy methodology is already in place, which enables early policy engagement with iwi leaders and their advisers. This has been a key plank of M\u0101ori Party policy: that we encourage the Crown, and promote opportunities for Ministers, to seek advice from iwi leaders and their advisers across Government policy. We already see in place iwi advisers on fresh water from Ng\u0101ti T\u016Bwharetoa, Waikato-Tainui, Ng\u0101i Tahu, Te Arawa, and Whanganui. We see both technical and cultural advisers from wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi across the resource management reforms and in the development of the national policy statement on biodiversity. We know that there is a M\u0101ori reference group on climate change and the emissions trading scheme, including representatives of iwi from 13 regions right across the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EOne piece of feedback we have received is that M\u0101ori found that they were able to engage more directly with Ng\u0101 Kaihaut\u016B Tikanga Taiao, as established under the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act. The explanation is that direct engagement appears to have been enhanced by the fact of the committee\u2019s independence from Government. Finally, throughout all there are legislative requirements to engage with M\u0101ori or to recognise the Treaty of Waitangi under such forms as the Resource Management Act or the Climate Change Response Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003ETo make it entirely clear, I advise that the M\u0101ori Party will be introducing at the Committee stage a Supplementary Order Paper that will propose to include a Treaty clause in the legislation. Mr Davis has sort of taken our thunder by asking why we have not done that. In fact, we are doing so. We believe that the number of obligations that Government has with iwi groups is likely to increase over the next few years, and it is the absolute intention of the M\u0101ori Party to continue to monitor and actively advocate for this to occur. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EIn sum, therefore, there is already a very complex set of arrangements through which iwi have a direct relationship with the Crown on policy and other strategic matters related to natural resources. The question in our mind, however, is whether we can absolutely guarantee that this new Environmental Protection Authority Bill will improve and advance the quality of engagement currently available to iwi and M\u0101ori. The answer to this question will form the basis of our votes at subsequent stages of the bill, but for today, in recognition of the progress made to date, we are happy to support this bill at its second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022385508d095b04b97acddd9ee338cefcd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022385508d095b04b97acddd9ee338cefcd\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E I congratulate you, Mr Assistant Speaker Robertson, on your appointment this afternoon. I am proud to speak in support of the Environmental Protection Authority Bill, which creates a stand-alone Crown agent to perform environmental regulatory functions. I want to address a comment made by the previous Labour speaker, who made claims about consultation regarding the mining permit issued on the East Coast. I thought it was worth bringing the House\u2019s attention to an issue that arose in 2008 under the previous Labour Government, when a seismic survey occurred with absolutely no consultation whatsoever. That raises the issue of a fairly strong double standard being shown by the gaggle opposite, which is rather frustrating when this bill balances economic growth with environmental protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EIn the interests of time I will speak specifically about one part of this bill, and that is what is made possible in terms of national consenting. In my own electorate of Taup\u014D it has been exciting to see the very speedy process with regard to the Tauhara geothermal plant. The initial request was lodged on 19 February 2010, and in the very same year the board of inquiry issued its final report on 10 December. That is a fantastic result, and it reverses the disturbing trend under the previous Government, when the consenting process took longer than the construction process. That is the sort of roadblock that this Government is pushing ahead and dealing with, to make sure that we are able to get vital infrastructure projects up and running much more quickly, with consultation and with the involvement of the people in the community who need, and want, to have their say. I am very proud to support the second reading of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EAmendments recommended by the Local Government and Environment Committee by majority agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a3081401ef754a90acfb84552d552ef2\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224c3a1bf3d4ed4c1fb036a3709a3300f6\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaf8c0c4d5434f6abeba1504d6d33fa5\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Acting Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That urgency be accorded the introduction and passing of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill; the first readings of the Housing Corporation Amendment Bill, the Education Amendment Bill (No 4), the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill, the Juries (Jury Service and Protection of Particulars of Jury List Information) Amendment Bill, and the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2); the second reading of the Auditor Regulation and External Reporting Bill; the Committee stage of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill; and the passing through its remaining stages of the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill. It is important to advance the Government\u2019s response to the Canterbury earthquake as quickly and effectively as possible, and to advance other legislation to select committee. The vast bulk of those bills contained in the urgency motion are first readings, to accommodate that outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c02577d4cd7c41bba42df6e97134ff8e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That urgency be accorded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222fada38adb7f429b9f13410122b43efc\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e1a6e87af9db43e798d8a3adcb6bff8f\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u0022986b7316a0df4203ac57e8007e0535db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022986b7316a0df4203ac57e8007e0535db\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Acting Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for there to be question time at 2 p.m. on Wednesday, 13 April 2011 and Thursday, 14 April 2011 and for questions to be lodged in the normal manner, pursuant to Standing Order 372.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228adf55952c78475388eb81ed5a9390ad\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223d5685dd25034e35ae27dee15eba2da6\u0022\u003ECommittees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002237a4209e422a42e1aa20ab7f777b9bfe\u0022\u003EBusiness of Select Committees\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022baed5a11a6454ac9bbd3fec92f39d593\u0022\u003EReporting Dates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229b9f8c23c693404a9437b29191417cb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b9f8c23c693404a9437b29191417cb9\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the Local Government and Environment Committee to hear evidence on the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill, and, for this purpose, to have authority to meet on 12 April 2011 while the House is sitting, and during an evening while the House is sitting, and to meet in Christchurch during a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 189(a), 190(1)(a), (b), and (c), and 201(1), and  to report the evidence received to the House by 9 a.m. on Thursday, 14 April 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e57c7684d717451c99b9c03eb56aa5e8\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dc43f58a2bf247c3a6cc83ccece1dffd\u0022\u003ECanterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b81ea0b7993f493fb1c2e2d1d11e02f9\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229a0eea8a55d84733b3c66c58caac55ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a0eea8a55d84733b3c66c58caac55ff\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill be now read a first time. The leave that has just been granted by the House is somewhat unusual and I am grateful to members for allowing this procedure to take place. Just to explain the effect of the leave, essentially the bill is read for a first time now, and then at the end of the first reading, upon a successful vote, it will be laid upon the Table of the House to be dealt with presently. Presently, in this sense, will mean at 9 a.m. on Thursday morning. In the meantime, the Local Government and Environment Committee will be able to hear from people who have been invited to submit their opinions on the bill, to gather evidence that relates to those opinions, and to present that evidence to the House for its consideration during the second reading, Committee stage, and third reading of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe bill is necessary because effective earthquake recovery will require timely decisions that would not be possible under current legislation. The bill describes the activities that the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority, or CERA, will undertake and the powers that the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery and/or the chief executive of the authority will need to undertake in these activities. The bill provides appropriate measures to enable Governments to facilitate and, if necessary, direct greater Christchurch and its communities to respond to, and recover from, the impacts of the two Canterbury earthquakes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the bill is to provide appropriate measures to ensure that greater Christchurch and its communities respond to, and recover from, the impacts of the earthquakes; to enable community participation in the planning, the recovery, and the rebuilding of affected communities without impeding a focused, timely, and expedited recovery; to facilitate and direct the planning, rebuilding, and recovery of affected communities, including the repair and rebuilding of infrastructure and other property; and to restore the social, economic, cultural, and environmental well-being of greater Christchurch communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe bill vests powers in the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery and the chief executive of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority. These powers are necessary to enable an effective, timely, and coordinated recovery for greater Christchurch following these events. In order to achieve the policy intent of effective and efficient rebuild and recovery in Christchurch, the legislation needs to ensure that the desired outcomes identified in the recovery strategy by the Christchurch Earthquake Recovery Agency and the Minister, which provides for the recovery plans, are able to be efficiently and effectively delivered on the ground. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe private sector and the wider community will be critical players in the successful recovery and rebuilding of Christchurch alongside central and local government agencies. It is worth noting at this point that, in response to the initial emergency and as we have moved into recovery, literally tens of thousands of people in Canterbury have gone the extra mile to make life a bit easier for their fellow Cantabrians. This bill sets out to capture that intention and that deep intensity of desire to recover. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ETo achieve its policy intent the legislation must ensure that an appropriate balance is struck between providing certainty to residential communities and business investors about how the legislation will work and what is needed for the recovery on the one hand, and providing flexibility for different and innovative solutions to specific circumstances on the other. The processes set out in the bill are efficient while providing appropriate safeguards. The recovery strategy and plans formulated under the bill are linked efficiently through the existing statutory planning framework in greater Christchurch. This includes ensuring that non - recovery-related activity in Christchurch does not inadvertently cut across the direction set out in the recovery strategy and plans. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EOnly those powers considered necessary have been provided for, and they fall into a series of broad groupings. The first is information gathering, reports, and investigations. These powers are necessary, as critical decisions must be based on accurate information. Most notably here, gathering information for a large data set that will help make informed decisions about the future viability of some streets and, indeed, some suburbs in Christchurch is absolutely essential. This information must be able to be shared to ensure appropriate levels of consultation, and explanation of the decisions made. I hasten to add that much of the information that is provided will be available for analysis by an agency of Government, but will not be generally available, because of its commercial sensitivity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAligned with the gathering of information is the need to commission reports and investigations to ensure that decisions are soundly based. One can only imagine what it would be like to find out that people living on one side of a road have a section that is no longer viable and may need to move, but people on the other side of the road are deemed to be on a safe and stable piece of ground. Anyone in that situation will want to know that the very best of information has been gathered and the most appropriate analysis of that information has been made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe next grouping of powers is the power of entry. This power is necessary to enable premises to be inspected to facilitate carrying out work to assist in the recovery efforts, such as informing land remediation decisions and maintaining structures on relevant land and preventing damage to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESurveying powers are needed to ensure the speedy and accurate reinstatement of title boundaries, which is an issue that underpins New Zealand\u2019s economy and is central to the equity that many homeowners have in their property. It provides certainty for property rights of affected landowners. These powers will ensure that property boundaries are determined in accordance with the best interests of the Canterbury region and in a manner that enhances the recovery effort for the region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EOn building works, in order to achieve the purposes of this Act the chief executive of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority must be able to carry out or commission building works, including demolition. This power enables urgent action to be taken and prevents unreasonable delays that might stop necessary works. One of the worst things that could happen would be for large buildings that have big drop zones to be given months and months to sort themselves out, in the process preventing many others getting into their premises, preventing jobs being reactivated, and holding up the general commerce of the central business district. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThese powers are complemented by additional associated powers that enable land to be subdivided to permit building works for temporary housing to be erected, to authorise the use of that land, and to stop or close roads. The Government has commissioned through the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority a number of temporary housing units, which will go in public places, in anticipation of people needing those units as their houses are repaired. This particular section of the Act enables that work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe powers of direction are necessary to enable work to be coordinated to avoid disruption and duplication of effort. For example, the provision of power, water, and other services should be done simultaneously so that roads are not continuously being dug up for such works. This power includes the power to step in where directions are not followed. For private property owners these powers enable the Crown to purchase property where required to enable the recovery to proceed, and enable compulsory acquisition where necessary. These powers, I think, will be exercised sparingly, but they will be particularly important for the recovery of suburbs as well as of the central business district. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe power to require information can be used only where information can be provided without unreasonable difficulty or expense. Before disseminating information, the chief executive must consider privacy principles. The person exercising a power of entry must produce authorisation and evidence of identification, and reasonable notice must be given. Before exercising the survey power, the chief executive must consult the Surveyor-General, and where there is a dispute, a dispute mechanism needs to be put in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIn undertaking building works, a notice is required to be served on owners, occupiers, or other persons with an interest in the land. In exercising powers of direction, the step-in right does not include the ability to collect rates or to take action that may affect other rating decisions. Notice of the intention to acquire land is required. Persons who have had their land compulsorily acquired or demolished will be entitled to compensation, and any person may appeal to the High Court against the determination of compensation, against any decision in respect of which there is a right of appeal and objection under the Resource Management Act or from a dispute over a survey definition decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThere is one other significant control in the bill. The Minister must prepare and present to the House a quarterly report on the operation of this Act. Each report must include a description of the powers exercised by, or on behalf of, the Minister or the chief executive under this Act during that period. The Act is subject to the Official Information Act, as is the department, and the decisions by the Minister are subject to judicial review. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EOverall, this bill enables the Government to move swiftly to restore the social and economic well-being of the greater Christchurch area and its affected communities. The checks and balances ensure that the necessary powers for recovery are used judiciously, are open to appropriate levels of public scrutiny, and provide for appeal. I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00227999c736da6941418514680889301720\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227999c736da6941418514680889301720\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I will deal with the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill in a more wide-ranging and general sense at this point. I know that Canterbury colleagues on this side of the House will deal with the particularity of it, especially as we move through the stages. I want to say that the Labour position at this point is that we will support the legislation in the first reading in order to send it to the Local Government and Environment Committee, and we will see what the outcome of that select committee produces. We reserve our position at that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI will say, to be generous to the Government, that we did suggest some days ago when we had very short notice of this legislation, and two short interactions with the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery, that a select committee process may be appropriate. We offered, I think through the shadow Leader of the House, Mr Mallard, the process of a 1-day, or 24-hour, select committee period at the very least in order to allow the key actors and stakeholders in Christchurch to have a say on this legislation\u2014for instance, the local authorities, the unified citizens group CanCERN, Ng\u0101i Tahu, and other stakeholders. I say to the Minister that I am pleased that he has come to the party on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut I want to observe a couple of things. There has been a lot of talk about earthquake tsars, in that a chief executive who did not get an appointment would somehow be an \u201CEarthquake Tsar\u201D, or that Mr Ombler, who holds the position for a number of weeks or months, is the \u201CEarthquake Tsar\u201D. I say to Mr Brownlee that he has wartime powers. His Government was given those wartime powers by the House to act appropriately, and we did that in the spirit of non-partisanship. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI will outline for the House, so that there is no mistake, how Labour colleagues have treated this whole disaster and tragedy in Canterbury. There are no politics in this issue from our point of view. Under the normal rules of engagement in this House, when we see an area of criticism in respect of the Government we fire a media statement or a shot across the bows, we go public, and we deal with it in the public arena. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EIn general we have attempted, in respect of this Minister, to interact at a personal level, through me personally, or through my colleagues. If there has been no action, we have tended to write to the Minister, and this folder I am holding contains the number of letters and interactions on paper we have had with the Minister since the 22 February event until today. If we have still felt strongly about it, and there has still been no action, at that point we have entered the public arena. We have done that with some reluctance. We have done that on only a number of occasions\u2014specifically, on the drama and difficulty that business people had in trying to gain entry to the red zone over a period of weeks. We interacted with Mr Brownlee and Mr Carter personally. It took us weeks to get a reply to our letter, and we were told that we were wrong. OK, that is life, but that was proven to be incorrect, and we were right and business people, for the first time in my living memory, picked up placards and stormed the barricades. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister that we have approached this legislation in good faith. We have provided quite a wide range of written advice on our point of view, and that advice not only gives our point of view, by the way, but also has been generated through our communities. We are constituent members of Parliament in Canterbury. We do not have a monopoly on all knowledge in respect of this disaster or this legislation. We have gone out and canvassed our communities, and we have learnt from them. I acknowledge that there have been some amendments. I note that after a number of interventions by me and my colleagues, Mr Brownlee does believe that there needs to be, for instance in clause 4, a definition of the central business district, which is only appropriate. After a number of interventions he has listened, and I thank him for his generosity of spirit in respect of that measure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWhat have we learnt from our communities? What do Cantabrians want? I think they want what all of us want. They want detailed, robust planning to be put in place. I know we have prattled on ad nauseam about this, but they also want a large say in what their town\u2014because this is a Canterbury bill\u2014their city, and their province will look like as we go forward. I know there are those who say that that is a bit PC and woolly, and that we cannot have people impeding progress by going on and on and endlessly consulting. I ask the Minister to look at the most contemporary example we have, which is on the other side of my electorate. It is a local authority, and, yes, it is smaller in size, but it has embarked on a series of consultation processes that were done over a 3 to 4-month period. Following the first event it took 2 to 3 months to get out the geotechnical information, as was appropriate, in order to work out what the hell they would do as a town and as a local authority. That local authority then drilled past politicians and interest groups. It did not bypass them, it included them, but it drilled past them right to the grassroots of its community. It did a really basic thing. It asked people what they wanted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI know Mr Brownlee has a view, and I share his view, that in no way do we want to impede or delay the process of people getting back their lives, houses, routines, and livelihoods. I accept that, but I have on a number of occasions invited Mr Brownlee to look at the example of Waimakariri District Council. Over a period of 3 months the council went from having basically no plan to, prior to the 22 February event\u2014and, had it not been for that tragedy, hitting the \u201CGo\u201D button\u2014having meetings with its community, where it could tell people whether they would be first or last in terms of getting their life and their house back. The council waits today for a cheque and for the tick-off from the Government, and some temporary housing, and it can hit the \u201CGo\u201D button. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister that I attended some very tough meetings in my community in that half of my electorate, where men were in tears and people potentially could have done dangerous things to themselves. I mean that in all sincerity, so much so that people were checked the following day. People were shocked because they were told it might take some 4 years to get their houses back, but the very interesting thing was that they were in support of the council. The council owned the good, the bad, and the ugly, and they were all consulted. It does not necessarily mean that those people agreed with everything the council has done, but that process was efficient, and it was done over 3 to 4 months. The fact that the council can hit the \u201CGo\u201D button today is because it has the community\u2019s support. It treated the people of the community with respect and as intelligent human beings, and it involved them from the grassroots up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThat is one of the pleas and central points that we want to make in the debate on this legislation. Mr Brownlee is the \u201CEarthquake Tsar\u201D\u2014he holds the pen over the chief executive, and all he or she will do\u2014and it is not good enough, in our view, to have an appointed panel of 20 people and expect those people to be representative of the community, and then say that the panel has been consulted a few times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EOriginally in the draft bill that we saw, from memory, the proposal was to consult the panel six times, and say that was good enough. Overseas experience shows that would not be good enough. New Orleans floundered for damned near 2 years, then decided to involve the community, and progress took off. We do not want anybody with the ability to throw a vexatious spanner in the works. No one wants to delay this process. However, we have learnt from other jurisdictions, both here and overseas, what happens when we involve our communities, treat them with respect, and give them, as the Minister said, accurate information, not the idle speculation that we have had over a period of months, such as the statement that 10,000 people might be moving from a particular area. We have learnt that communities will buy into such a process, and that we will have a faster and more efficient process out the back of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThat is one of the central points that we raise in this legislation. There are other issues to do with checks and balances in respect of the particular power that the Minister has. Let us be under no illusion: this authority will have enormous power to get things done, and if that power is exercised appropriately and correctly, that will be all for the good. What we are concerned about is that there should be a balance, and that there should be some checks and balances, so that good people who are not vexatious, and who are concerned about their well-being and the well-being of their community, are not mowed over. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMr Brownlee often says that anyone who criticises or raises their head, particularly in respect of the business issues I talked about earlier, or who says there may be a better way, is, one, being political, and, two, impeding progress. I say to Mr Brownlee that we are not being political, but we do not want to do away with our right to represent our community, say what we believe, represent that community in a robust way, and raise issues of concern. If that is impeding progress, we are guilty as charged. In respect of the business community, as I said to Mr Brownlee, we are protecting progress. Those business people to whom we lent a voice, for instance, are our progress. We were not impeding progress; we were protecting it. Without those business people we will not have a central business district. I say to Mr Brownlee that we approach this bill in good faith, and we look forward to a robust discussion, and to Mr Brownlee and his Government perhaps listening to the representations we make on behalf of our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7d7c7006bbe4609b7171a692863e85b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7d7c7006bbe4609b7171a692863e85b\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E As the explanatory note of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill points out, the 22 February earthquake was an incomparable natural disaster in New Zealand\u2019s history. Yes, it is above politics, but just because someone says it is above politics does not make it above politics; that claim has to be acted upon. It will be the actions rather than the words that will show there is no politics in this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EWe have never been faced with a disaster on this scale before. In response, we need to be able to make decisions. The bill lays out the framework by which the Government will assist Canterbury and Christchurch to move forward. It is important to note in the explanatory note the general policy statement: \u201CThe Bill is founded on the need for community participation in decision-making processes while balancing this against the need for a timely and coordinated recovery process.\u201D That is the foundation of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003ERebuilding Canterbury will be a long process. The Christchurch central business district has changed dramatically. Areas like Cashel Mall, High Street, and Cathedral Square are just not the same. We have spoken in this House previously about the damage inflicted on roading, water services, sewerage, and homes throughout the region. The cordon in the central business district has gradually reduced in size, though some areas are still no-go zones. Almost all schools have reopened, albeit with disruption at some sites, and nearly all households now have power and running water. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EBut, of course, the substantive damage remains, and it is a big job. As was noted today, about $8.5 billion will be spent to fix Canterbury, and the job requires a centralised response. Lessons learnt from overseas show that it is best to have a single entity in charge of the recovery efforts following major natural disasters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority has been given this very important task. Of course, it will be working closely alongside the Christchurch City Council, the Selwyn District Council, the Waimakariri District Council, and other stakeholders throughout this process. The Waimakariri District Council has shown that it is very adept at developing plans, in particular those relating to Kaiapoi, giving certainty to residents about the staged rebuilding process. This is the sort of experience that can be drawn upon. It may well be that Waimakariri will not need to bother the authority, nor require the exercise of any of the powers, but it has been included in case it does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThis legislation aims to facilitate prompt and efficient decision-making, both by the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery and the authority. I have heard the concerns that the powers go too far. The same concerns were aired over the previous Canterbury Earthquake Response and Recovery Act, which is now being repealed. The powers under that Act were used responsibly, as will be the powers this legislation provides. Even law academics such as Professor Andrew Geddis have admitted that the fears of abuse of powers under the previous legislation have remained unrealised. There are significant checks and balances to ensure that the powers are used properly, and are necessary for the Canterbury recovery and rebuild. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EIt is important that the need for community participation is balanced against the need for timely and effective decision-making. Cantabrians want a say in how their region is rebuilt. It is, after all, their region. This bill provides for the establishment of a community forum, made up of local representatives who will provide advice to the Minister. There will also be a public consultation process in place. Cantabrians want to be heard, but they want to see action. It is a matter of striking the balance between effective coordination and consultation and the need for progress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EWe want the people of Canterbury to stay and rebuild their city and their province, alongside the Government, over the next 5 years. Rebuilding Canterbury is one of the Government\u2019s highest priorities, and we will continue to provide the resources to make this happen over the coming weeks, months, and years. We are at only the start of a long journey, and the sooner the people of Canterbury can see a plan in place to rebuild their city, and the progress flowing from that plan, the sooner they can re-establish their lives. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe0954cfa1d6432d87ba7ccf0bad98a5\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the member Lianne Dalziel. I understand this is to be a split call, is it not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u00229e177dc5441942d5b4b11884e00e458a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e177dc5441942d5b4b11884e00e458a\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Labour has four calls, and the third call will be split. It will be split between the Hon Ruth Dyson and Brendon Burns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226c52a0226a04f438b90fa80d70d1082\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u002249062ddb0a33427ca6420588bd191978\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249062ddb0a33427ca6420588bd191978\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I should be standing here today to say that the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill is a bipartisan bill that has been through a consultative process that enables us all to have confidence that the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority will support the recovery effort in Christchurch in the best possible way, based on international best practice\u2014which is something we can find on the website of the Ministry of Civil Defence and Emergency Management. But it is incredibly sad that I cannot say that, neither for me nor for colleagues who have worked tirelessly since the first earthquake to bring to the Minister\u2019s attention advice on how to address the myriad of issues that these two events have presented. My sadness is for the people of Christchurch, who deserve better\u2014much better\u2014than this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe legislation is flawed for a number of reasons, but fundamentally for this reason: the Government has chosen the \u201Ccommand and control\u201D model, essential for disaster response but the antithesis of what is required in recovery. And the Government has chosen this model, it says, because it is writing a multibillion-dollar cheque, and therefore it has to be in charge. But as all of the experts on recovery have said\u2014and these are not people who just sit in ivory towers; these are people who have been to Haiti, New Orleans, and Queensland, and who have now come to Christchurch\u2014leadership is vital for recovery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EA leader has vision, has a plan, and has an open frame of reference in terms of thinking outside the square. A leader surrounds himself or herself with talent when forming the team, listens to all of the competing views, exercises judgment, and is capable of making hard decisions. But, more important, he or she inspires others to do great things. That is what a leader does, because from all disasters great things can emerge. In my view, if we are to make sense of something as dreadful as what has occurred in Christchurch, then great things must emerge from it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWhen I think of the possibilities that can emerge from the devastation of our once beautiful city, and the suburbs that have been ravaged along our waterways, our cliff faces, and the valleys below, I look to the Hon Gerry Brownlee and a Government department called the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority, but it is hard to find the inspiration that I know we ought to be able to feel. This is neither a criticism of the Minister nor of the civil servants who will take up their departmental duties; it is simply a statement of reality that the model cannot serve recovery. No other country has adopted this model, and, in fact, on looking at the lessons that have been learnt overseas, I believe there is a real risk of adding another layer of disaster to the disaster that has already occurred. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority may be located physically in Christchurch but the decisions will be made here in Wellington. On Saturday the Minister was reported as saying that many of the groups that had formed in Christchurch were well-motivated, but that the Government would have limited capacity to listen to everyone. From a Government perspective, he said it does not want to get caught in a mire of constant consultation and meetings. He went on to say that the Government would look to established organisations for business advice on recovery, which effectively sidelined the groups that have sprung from the heart of the cordoned-off central business district, whose members have been critical of the Government\u2019s position on access to buildings in relation to their getting their businesses up and running. That is what is wrong with the model: any criticism, constructive or otherwise, is classified as politicising the tragedy. That is what happens when politicians are running the show, and that is why they should not be running the show. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EToday the Minister, in defending the bill, said that the consultation provisions in the bill were misunderstood. But what is misunderstood is the recovery process, and it is misunderstood by the Minister. Let me explain, with reference to the lessons that were learnt from Hurricane Katrina, which devastated New Orleans. Much has been written about Katrina, but the most compelling analysis for me was the one that identified the missing story: understanding what was going on in New Orleans pre-Katrina. People understand the storm and its aftermath, including the involvement of the Federal Government, but it is the missing story that offers the most important lesson for us here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe missing pre-Katrina story included the historic choices that had been made, the patterns of physical development\u2014a big issue in my electorate is the risk factors all around flooding\u2014public risk, and community resilience and sustainability. We have noticed whole suburbs that do not have a heart\u2014that do not have a community centre. These are resilience issues we need to address as we recover. The lesson that was learnt by the ignoring of the third story in the recovery process was that pre-event vulnerabilities were simply re-entrenched, and therefore the opportunity to reduce future disaster risk was lost. If we do not take this opportunity to ensure that we do not re-entrench those pre-event vulnerabilities, then we will have learnt nothing from the overseas experience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EFrom Hurricane Katrina we learnt that we need to balance speed and deliberation\u2014and I reject the statement from the Government that this is about the balance it is putting forward. What needs to be understood\u2014and this is where the Minister completely misses the point\u2014is that we must reconcile the need to martial the authority of the State with the entrepreneurship of the market, because together they will want to rebuild quickly. But at the same time that must be balanced with the necessity to plan, in an inclusive, deliberative, innovative, and transformative manner. I have not heard one of those words spoken on the other side of the House in either of the two Government contributions we have had so far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThat is why the word \u201Cdeliberation\u201D is used, as opposed to \u201Cdiscussion\u201D or \u201Cconsultation\u201D. I use the word \u201Cengagement\u201D a lot because that is what we are looking for. Deliberation means reflection, it means dialogue, and it means negotiation for decision making. It does not mean we have to agree on everything, and it certainly does not mean we have to hold off until we have agreement on anything. It is not the talk-fest the Minister fears. The reason deliberation is required is that rebuilding too quickly and randomly simply imposes massive long-term costs and risks on society, and when I say \u201Csociety\u201D I am reflecting on the impact that this legislation will have on New Zealand as a whole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Government seems to be ignoring the fact that recovery is very complex. It is not linear; it is a very complex issue. It requires careful planning. There is no one-size-fits-all solution. I represent many of the affected suburbs. I represent Dallington, Bexley, Avondale, the Horseshoe Lake, Brooklands, Spencerville, and now Aranui and Parklands. What recovery looks like for each of those suburbs will be quite different from each other because their needs, their issues, and their environments are all different, and that is why they need to be fully engaged in the process of recovery. I do not actually regard that as a disadvantage. In fact, it is an enormous advantage, and the Government needs to step up to the plate on this, because in every single one of those suburbs recovery presents us with some real opportunities for restoration and renewal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe mistake is to think of recovery as rebuilding the buildings and the infrastructure\u2014and all I ever hear the Government talk about is the buildings and the infrastructure. The rebuilding is actually only one component of the whole recovery process, which demands that we look at the social, the economic, and the natural environments, as well as our built environments. It is not a simple one-size-fits-all matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI say that because these decisions will impact on our society for generations to come. That is why the process must be inclusive, and must be deliberative, innovative, and transformative. All of the literature says that it must involve local people in joint learning and public decision-making. These are new skills that we can teach our communities and learn alongside our communities, because no one person has the answer in each of those suburbs. We can capitalise on local culture and knowledge. There is so much richness of knowledge within the communities that I am privileged to represent. We can mobilise local capacity to rebuild. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI know that the suburb of Aranui will have no difficulty with the community development model they have already locked in place over a decade of work, working within their community, securing the things that are good for the community, and enabling them to discard the things that hold them back. I think that that is the key thing. This is an opportunity to actually get rid of some of the aspects of our communities that have been holding us back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWhat has happened in Christchurch is a disaster, but we must now turn our attention to looking for the opportunities it presents to make us more resilient, to make things better, and to enable us in Christchurch to share those opportunities with the rest of New Zealand, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u00226642ca4716e44285bb8323759dc6990d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226642ca4716e44285bb8323759dc6990d\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Of course none of us wanted this. We did not want the event of 22 February. We did not want the devastation. We did not want, and never expected, to have legislation of this kind before our House. I speak with some emotion, having lived in the city through the past 7 months. I have experienced the sheer trauma of the death and destruction around us. I have organised volunteer groups to go into the suburbs to shovel and doorknock, and initiated fund-raising for food delivery to those in need. I have attended the heart-wrenching memorial services for the dead. I have entered my office to retrieve equipment still cordoned inside a drop zone. I have visited civil defence headquarters on an almost daily basis. Just last week I toured the devastated red zone\u2014a visually searing experience that simply breaks one\u2019s heart. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EYet the emotion all of us in Christchurch feel over this event must be separated from our perception of the legislation before us and our responsibility to be true to the basic principles of democratic society as we know it in this country. Not only is the Christchurch disaster unprecedented but so is this Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill. So how are we to assess it? By what criteria are we to judge it? I advance four criteria for judging this bill. Are the stated purposes appropriate and coherent? Are the powers granted for the purpose proper? Is the extent of public involvement adequate? Are our constitutional principles respected? I will begin with my conclusion: the purposes are appropriate, the powers granted are excessive, the extent of public involvement is inadequate, and our constitutional principles are violated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EI ask members to consider the first question. The purposes of the bill are stated to be fivefold. They are to provide appropriate measures for Christchurch to be able to respond and recover; to enable community participation in planning the recovery; to enable a focused, timely, and expedited recovery; to facilitate and direct the planning, rebuilding, and recovery; and to restore the social, economic, cultural, and environmental well-being of Christchurch. Those purposes are entirely appropriate. We would comment, in relation to the fifth purpose, that the restoration of Christchurch should be pursued along sustainable lines that reflect 21st century values and technology. The devastation that is currently my city presents an opportunity not only to restore but to qualitatively grow in new directions. That is what being Green societally\u2014not just politically\u2014is all about. We invite the Government to proceed in that direction, even if it cannot bring itself to use the word \u201Csustainable\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EAre the purposes coherent? It seems that they meet the Government\u2019s purpose of ensuring that nothing stands in the way of a focused, timely, and expedited recovery. By \u201Cfocused\u201D the Government seems to mean that power will be concentrated enormously in one person. That, in itself, does not guarantee a focus of vision and effort. The goal of ensuring there is a timely recovery would seem to mean \u201Cat the appropriate time\u201D. But then to state that the recovery must be expedited immediately contradicts that. The issue is more than semantic. Words mean something, or they would not be there. The powers accorded under the bill would last for 5 years, yet we are being asked to grant them in the name of expedition. That is a non sequitur. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ELet us consider the second question: are the powers granted proper for the purposes of the legislation? Clauses 20 to 40 give extraordinary powers to the Minister. They roam across 23 statutes, but are not confined to those. Those 23 Acts are, the bill says, without limitation. We criticised that back in September when we debated the Canterbury Earthquake Response and Recovery Bill, yet we were prepared, ultimately, to vote for that legislation. This time, however, the ministerial powers are far more extensive. There is a qualitative break in constitutional terms between the Canterbury Earthquake Response and Recovery Act and this bill. This bill accords immeasurably greater power to the Minister, and over a much longer time period. Those powers are excessive in relation to the purpose of the bill. We can, perhaps, draw a distinction here between what could be called the recovery period, which would last 9 months until the strategy and plans are in place, and the rebuilding period, which would last for the remaining 4 years and 3 months. Even if some were to defend those ministerial powers for the shorter period, they are not, we suggest, proper for the rebuild period if that rebuild is to be led and operationalised by the Christchurch community itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ELet us move to the third question: is the extent of public involvement adequate? There is to be a community forum, but the forum is to be peopled by the Minister. Members are to be suitably qualified, but that does not mean they will necessarily be representative of the Christchurch community. The community forum should be appointed on the recommendation of the House. The Minister is obliged to have regard to the advice of the forum, but having given such regard he may then disregard it. The community forum has no final say in the building of the community. The Minister, from central government, has that. So too are the local authorities denied any final say. There is to be a parliamentary cross-party forum composed of local MPs. This, too, is an advisory body, but the bill does not even require the Minister to have regard to that advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThen there is the matter of the role of the municipal authorities. The recovery strategy is to be developed in collaboration with Christchurch City Council, the two district councils, Environment Canterbury, Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu, and other persons and organisations considered appropriate by the Minister. Yet the final approval remains with the Minister alone. In developing the ensuing recovery plan the Christchurch City Council must take the lead and must consult with the affected communities, but the Minister may make any changes to the plan or withdraw any part of it, and he may review it at any time and amend or replace it. The coup de gr\u00E2ce is given in clause 20(3): apart from the Christchurch City Council, the Minister has no duty to consult with any person about the development of a recovery plan. One sees a pattern emerging here: there is an appearance of community engagement, but the reality of ministerial control. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EFinally, are our constitutional principles respected? It is our considered view that the powers granted to one Minister of the Crown are excessive for the purposes of this bill. Accordingly\u2014and we shall explore this further in the forthcoming debate and in the Committee stage\u2014the conclusion is that the bill as drafted places an unacceptable strain on the constitutional precepts and principles of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThe people of Christchurch deserve to have a bill that gives them the power to rebuild Christchurch themselves, not one that gives all the power to one man. We are asked to personally trust the Minister, and we are assured that no abuse of power has occurred under the existing Act. My reply is that this is irrelevant. The exercise of excessive powers is not a matter to be adjudicated on trust. Constraints on governmental powers are a non-negotiable principle, independent of one person. It is no disrespect to the Minister concerned to say he should not be trusted with such powers. This bill effectively gives unbridled power to the Beehive for 5 years, and it sidelines local councils and communities. Yet international evidence shows that community-led recovery efforts work best. We shall oppose this bill at this first reading. In the Committee stage we shall propose a number of Supplementary Order Papers with a view to making the bill acceptable in a constitutional sense and politically appropriate in terms of a genuine and adequate community engagement. More generally, the Green Party will work in the communities of Christchurch, as I have been doing, and with the Government, as we shall strive to do, to ensure that Christchurch is properly rebuilt and that the society can recover and, indeed, grow in wholly new ways relevant to our times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u00227167a19a55ce4a3c985bb3617a420904\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227167a19a55ce4a3c985bb3617a420904\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E As the MP for Te Tai Tonga I am very proud to stand in support of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill. This is an important bill, which \u201Csets out the appropriate measures to enable the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery and/or Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority (CERA) to facilitate and direct, if necessary, greater Christchurch and its communities to respond to, and recover from, the impacts of the Canterbury earthquakes.\u201D There has been so much said already about the events of 22 February that one wonders what can be left to say, and the bill itself puts this into words, stating that we \u201Csimply do not have the capability to deal with a disaster of this magnitude.\u201D But what has been so remarkable as the days and weeks have unfolded has been to see that there is, indeed, an incredible resilience and fortitude at every level of the response to this disaster. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe key issue is that no one player should or could be expected to respond with a timely and coordinated recovery effort for the Greater Christchurch region. I am pleased to know that Ng\u0101i Tahu, a leader of the recovery effort, has supported central government intervention because in its view the range of the issues emanating from the tragedy have a scale and a complexity beyond any one institution to resolve. In my consultations with Ng\u0101i Tahu, I am aware that they are confident that a close collaborative arrangement with the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority will both deliver positive outcomes for Christchurch and enable Ng\u0101i Tahu to meaningfully contribute to the recovery programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003ENg\u0101i Tahu submit that a bold but considered central government intervention is required, due to the scale and complexity of the issues affecting Canterbury at this time. Although this legislation does not have a Treaty clause, it embodies the Treaty partnership, and the M\u0101ori Party joins with Ng\u0101i Tahu in strongly valuing this approach. I state from the outset that perhaps one of the most important achievements, which the M\u0101ori Party wants to draw to the House\u2019s attention, is clause 58(1) of the bill, which states: \u201CNothing in this Act affects the operation of the Ng\u0101i Tahu Claims Settlement Act 1998.\u201D and that, if there is any situation of doubt, the chief executive must exercise his or her power in accordance with the Ng\u0101i Tahu Claims Settlement Act 1998. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party has advocated for the first right of refusal regarding land disposal. This is important in respect of protecting the integrity of Treaty settlements. In essence, the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill makes explicit the primacy of the Ng\u0101i Tahu Claims Settlement Act. This is so important not just because it demonstrates that the Government has agreed that the existing first right of refusal is sacrosanct and should be protected, but also because it demonstrates the care taken in respect of formalising the Treaty relationship with mana whenua. We are pleased to bring to the House the views of Ng\u0101i Tahu that they seek to commend the leadership shown by this Government in enacting legislation that provides for the iwi to assume a key role in the recovery of the people and place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe advice we have received from Ng\u0101i Tahu expresses their particular appreciation of the way this legislation embodies the commitment of Ng\u0101i Tahu to be a partner with central and local government in developing a recovery strategy. The M\u0101ori Party has played a key role in promoting the importance of government formalising a partnership with Ng\u0101i Tahu with both central and local government, a relationship that will be given effect in the development of the central business district recovery plan. The M\u0101ori Party promotes the creation of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority, and consultation with Ng\u0101i Tahu and locals in regard to the recovery strategy and plan, notwithstanding that this is limited to consultation and collaboration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EFinally, at this first reading of the bill, I want to share some of the vital data and statistics that underpin successful implementation of this bill. This bill is founded on the need for community participation in decision-making processes, while balancing this against the need for a timely and coordinated recovery process. I want to share some of the amazing achievements I have been privileged to participate in, through a unique development that I think of as the iwi M\u0101ori sector response. The M\u0101ori Party strongly advocates for a recovery strategy that is culturally appropriate for M\u0101ori. What we have seen unfold in Christchurch is a crisis response effort to support M\u0101ori and the wider community, particularly those in Christchurch\u2019s eastern suburbs, through a collaboration between a number of iwi and M\u0101ori organisations known as the M\u0101ori Recovery Network. The network is a collaboration supported by Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu. Within this, all of the wh\u0101nau support has been done by Wh\u0101nau Ora providers in Christchurch and other providers from a number of iwi and M\u0101ori from outside of the region, including Te Arawa, Tainui, Ng\u0101ti Raukawa, and Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe contributions of this network are as follows: total number of contacts as at Tuesday, 8 April, 2011\u20149,493; wh\u0101nau with home safety concerns\u2014161; wh\u0101nau requesting food parcels\u2014550; wh\u0101nau requesting water\u2014513; wh\u0101nau needing medical attention\u2014211; wh\u0101nau needing clothing, bedding, etc.\u2014132; wh\u0101nau needing transport\u201476; wh\u0101nau needing assistance with filling out paperwork\u201431; wh\u0101nau needing counselling\u2014106; wh\u0101nau needing respite for family\u201419; wh\u0101nau needing assistance with clean-up labour\u201469; wh\u0101nau members registered with Red Cross\u20141,518; wh\u0101nau members registered with Work and Income\u20141,113. The w\u0101tene M\u0101ori have played a particularly significant role in this collaboration, as they have conducted house-to-house visits, and we are all enormously grateful for their efforts. I wanted to break down this detail into actual numbers because it demonstrates to me the real mahi that is being done every day on the ground.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThat is what this bill embraces and addresses. The bill formalises the need to ensure local involvement in decision making with the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery and the authority to work alongside the Christchurch City Council, Environment Canterbury, Waimakariri District Council, Selwyn District Council, Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu, businesses, community interests, and the private sector, in order that the planning processes under the bill take into account the local views and the views of those most affected. There will also be a consultation process with locals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe planning recovery of the Greater Christchurch region will occur through the development of a long-term recovery strategy, which will be developed by the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority in consultation with the organisations previously mentioned, and Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu. The bill is an essential part of the recovery of the area. We are happy to support it, and look forward to active participation throughout the ensuing debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u002213c8305c56c645019ea9467374946c46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213c8305c56c645019ea9467374946c46\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National):\u003C/span\u003E As someone who has lived in Christchurch all my life, I fully support the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill. The earthquake of 4 September rattled and damaged our province but it was the violent shake of 22 February that completely shattered Christchurch, its people, the central business district, and our suburbs. We have to fix our city. We need to restore, rebuild, and recover our province. We want to revitalise our towns, our streets, and our neighbourhoods. After all we have been through, we want and we need to build a better, safer, and more beautiful place to live. We need to repair the land, we need to fix the roads, we need to rebuild our communities, and we need to restore our buildings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority legislation is about response and recovery. It provides a balance between the need for community participation in the decision-making process and the need for a timely and coordinated recovery process. After the worst disaster that New Zealand has ever seen, Canterbury people are determined to rebuild their lives. We want to work quickly, efficiently, and smartly to make this happen. To do that, this bill establishes the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b9f283dc8c940cc91eec1929c8c79a1\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Forgive me, I apologise for interrupting the member. I do not do it for any vexatious means. I just raise this with you, Mr Assistant Speaker, for some advice. The reason I do this is that we are in a very cramped time frame. I am advised by parties outside this House that the bill is not available online. The reason I raise this is that, as I understand it, having taken advice, in the normal course of events the Parliamentary Counsel Office is instructed by the Minister and as soon as the bill is tabled it is placed online. Forgive me for interrupting the member. The reason I raise this is that we have a select committee process happening tomorrow, and key submitters around the country cannot get hold of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269967de9d2be46f288789e799006f9c3\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The point is well made, and I shall direct someone to attend to that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022652c69551f874f90adbf64f01f909991\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER\u003C/span\u003E: After the worst disaster that New Zealand has ever seen, Canterbury people are absolutely determined to rebuild their lives, and we want to do it quickly, efficiently, and smartly. To do this, the bill establishes the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority. Its chief executive officer will coordinate the recovery, and it will report to the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EEveryone in Canterbury is very keen to be involved in this process, so the authority and the Minister will work alongside the Christchurch City Council, Environment Canterbury, the Waimakariri District Council, the Selwyn District Council, Ng\u0101i Tahu, the community, and business interests. Furthermore, Cantabs can have their say via a community forum made up of community leaders and a cross-party forum of Canterbury members of Parliament. There will also be public consultation processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority is tasked with developing the long-term recovery strategy. That will set the overall direction for recovery efforts and must be produced within 9 months of the Act coming into force. Underneath that long-term recovery strategy, detailed recovery plans will be developed. They can cover things like social, economic, cultural, and environmental matters and infrastructural issues. They will be more detailed and relevant to specific areas. They are the what, the where, and the how of the recovery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThere is keen interest in the rebuilding of the Christchurch central business district, and that recovery plan will be led by the Christchurch City Council. Its mayor has already indicated that everyone in Christchurch will have the opportunity to have input into this process, and the central business district plan will also need to be produced within 9 months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe Act creates powers to ensure that the recovery is well coordinated and effective, but they are mainly reserve powers and are to be used only when necessary. There are numerous checks and balances in place, and the Minister must present a quarterly report to the House on the operation of the Act. The Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority and the Act itself also must be reviewed every year, and that report must be presented to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI believe that the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority, as established by this Act, will enable Christchurch and Canterbury to rebuild effectively and efficiently. It is an enabling framework that provides a set of powers for the authority and the Minister, if those powers are necessary. They may never be used, but they are there to ensure that the authority can act for the greater good of the Canterbury community and for the recovery from this earthquake, so that Christchurch and Canterbury can be rebuilt sooner, safer, and better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b92b3a48df3e45cfb948df8b8a2a33cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b92b3a48df3e45cfb948df8b8a2a33cb\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the member, in response to the point of order raised by Clayton Cosgrove, it is not a requirement that the debate take place; it is a courtesy. The bill must be tabled in the House; it is. The courtesy has been attended to, and within 5 minutes, at the very outside, the bill will be posted on the Government website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00227bf57929a019403f8354a0f4fe669ccc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bf57929a019403f8354a0f4fe669ccc\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I begin my contribution in this debate by acknowledging those who lost their lives in the quake of 22 February. It is very important for me that we hold those people in our hearts as we move forward to rebuild our region. Many others in Canterbury have lost their homes or their jobs, or both. Some still have their jobs, some still have their homes intact, but they have lost their confidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill is the next chance that we have as a Parliament, and particularly for the Canterbury members of Parliament as local leaders, to light the flame of hope for people in our patch. The bill does a lot of things. It gives extraordinary powers to the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery and sets up a new multi-agency Government department. There will be criticisms of whatever we end up with, but I give our commitment\u2014reinforcing the points that my colleagues Clayton Cosgrove and Lianne Dalziel have already made, and I know that Brendan Burns will make as well\u2014that Labour will work alongside people of any and all political persuasions to get our region up and running again. We want to work with our elected representatives, our councillors, and our community boards, which must have a role, but are not mentioned in the legislation. We want to work with our residents associations and the organisations that have sprung up\u2014like the many springs that have literally sprung up around our city since the two quakes\u2014to take up the challenge of supporting members of our community who need support. We need to do this together in order to get it right. The future of our city is too important an issue for any of us to waste time or energy on political point-scoring, or on leaving talented people out of the loop of being part of this recovery process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIn that vein, I urge the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery to listen carefully to this debate and to listen carefully to the contributions that submitters will make tomorrow. His press statement today stated that he would be making only minor changes to the legislation as it goes through under urgency between now and Thursday. It is very frustrating to hear that sort of comment from a Minister. It is very hard to see how anyone from Canterbury can go to that select committee tomorrow with any confidence that they will make a blind bit of difference. That is an arrogant way to treat people who are putting up their hands to be part of the recovery. That is an arrogant way to treat people who have already gone through a lot but who are prepared to take the next step to step up to the mark where we need them to be. For the Minister to say that he will give people 24 hours\u2019 notice to come along to the select committee but, by the way, that he will make some minor changes is not the way that we should be going into this process. It is too important. My region is too important for the Minister or any of his colleagues to trample over the views of people from that region. It is not acceptable for them to be treated like that, and I urge him to give openness and democracy, and real recovery, a decent chance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI will make three points that are, in my view, vital to the success of our recovery. The first point is blindingly obvious, I would have thought, but, tragically, it is not reflected in the legislation. It is that the voice of our communities of Canterbury must be heard and the people in our communities must be the drivers of the recovery of our city and our region. We are the people who want to live, play, and work in our city. We care about it. We are more passionate, more argumentative, and more opinionated than any other group of people in our country. We want to have a say and we will have a say. I want the Minister to understand that and I want the legislation to reflect it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe second point I will make is that the process has to be open and transparent. There cannot be any secret deals. There cannot be meetings behind closed doors. There cannot be any feeling of suspicion about this. We need an open and transparent process. We need to know what is happening because it is our place where it is happening. This is our life, our home, our city, and our region. We have the right to know what decisions are being made. The fact that we have a multi-agency Government department with one Minister is not a good start to an open and transparent process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe third point I will make is that the recovery must be at a good pace. We will all have different ideas along the way, but none of us wants this to be slow. It has already been a long 7 months and, for many, an even longer 7 weeks, so we want this process to be good. Again, the multi-agency Government department may not be the most nimble structure to put in place, and that is a very generous way of expressing my concern that this may become a grindingly slow bureaucratic process. We cannot afford that. I do want the pace to be reasonable\u2014I do not want it to be slow\u2014but in my view it is a much wiser choice to have a considered approach that includes the views and the aspirations of the citizens of our region, rather than a rushed job that we all live to regret. I know that Minister Brownlee would get the blame for it, and if this was a political issue for me, I would say we should go for it because Mr Brownlee will pay for it. We cannot afford to have that happen. I want to rescue Mr Brownlee, because his mistake will be one that we in Canterbury will have to live with for decades. I want to rescue him from that mistake and be part of having a clear and strong path forward to recovery. Labour extends a genuine offer of working together to get this right. We want to live, work, and play in a city that is thriving and that inspires passion\u2014a city where people want to come and share our joy of our city with us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThese have been big events. We have been through a lot since September. Some people might be asking whether Christchurch is up to this job and asking whether Canterbury is up to the task of contributing to our recovery in the way that I described. Well, I want to measure that question of whether we are up to it by looking at the way our communities responded to the quake. If our communities\u2019 quake response was an Olympic sport, we would win gold. Our communities have been extraordinary. In places where people hardly knew each other, they just reached out their arms and looked after people through a wide range of emotions: through grief at the loss of family members, through trauma at the loss of homes\u2014sometimes huge damage to homes for the second time\u2014and, for many, just through exhaustion. The aftershocks are frustrating. They wake people up. They annoy people. Lots of people in Christchurch jump when a truck goes past their house or their room. Some of it is to do with the hugely damaged roads, but for other people it is to do with their nerves being pretty frayed. If we look at the recovery model of having a community-driven response to our future and ask whether we are up to it, and if we look at what we did in Canterbury after the quake, we see that we can do this. We know we have strong, compassionate, caring, and competent people spread throughout our region. We might get into a competition, I know, when Amy Adams speaks about people in her electorate, because we are quite competitive. We know that we have fantastic people in our electorates, but we are not being competitive politically about this. We want to unite our talent, our passion, and our willingness to be part of the recovery. We want to unite that behind legislation that can be amended to give us that choice. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u002201f51c0d4a23404fb7ed38bf9745d395\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201f51c0d4a23404fb7ed38bf9745d395\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E It is a privilege to rise to speak to the first reading of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill, although it is one of those times when one wishes we did not need to be here to provide a response to this sort of situation. I know this has been said before, but 4.35 in the morning on 4 September was the beginning of a hellish period in Canterbury, and it was the time when everything started to change. From my perspective, from that date everybody in Canterbury has been working tirelessly and doing everything they can to help to get the region back on track\u2014and that is every political figure, every elected figure of any persuasion, every volunteer, every household, every school, every business, every lines worker, and every council worker. I have not seen anybody in Canterbury who is not doing everything they can to try to get our communities and our region back to being the best region in the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EBut for all that, this situation is like nothing any of us have ever dealt with. I do not think anyone is taking this position, but for any of us to assume that we know exactly how this situation is to be dealt with is wrong. We are learning as we go; we have to. This is without doubt the biggest natural disaster that this country has had to deal with, and the repercussions from it\u2014the loss of life, the impact on the community, the loss of homes, and the uncertainty\u2014will be with us for a long, long time. We as a Parliament have to do everything we can to help that process to be as manageable and as survivable for everyone in Canterbury as it can be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EOver the last 7 months we have learnt that this is a huge event, and that the recovery will take years. We have learnt that we need to have a single point of coordination and, ultimately, control, and we have learnt that there will be many, many views as we go through this recovery on what should be done. As we fight our way through it and learn how to deal with it, inevitably there will be disagreement on each step and on how we should get there. We all know what we want to achieve, but we all know that we will not agree on every step of the way. I think there will be as many different views on what should happen in Canterbury as there are people in Canterbury. That is an absolutely valid and important part of it, but equally we have to have a central hub through which progress can be made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EWe have learnt that a process is needed that can help us to move positively\u2014because I think positivity will be a key element of this recovery\u2014and decisively. At the heart of it all is acceptance by everyone. Acceptance will not be easy to reach, but there should be an acceptance that there is no way that a business as usual approach to any of this situation will work. If we think we can simply roll out the tried and true, normal, business as usual approaches to decision making and to Government and judicial processes\u2014such as having a review and consultation\u2014in the way that we would for every other decision and in the way that we all agree is usually appropriate, we will get nowhere, and Canterbury will not get back on its feet within the sort of time frame in which it needs to do so. We know that after 4 September the House passed the Canterbury Earthquake Response and Recovery Act, which contained significant and wide-reaching powers. The Act was an appropriate and necessary response at that time, and, as all sensible commentators are agree, it was handled appropriately and necessarily. The earthquake on 22 February made things considerably worse, but the earlier period gave us the chance to learn about the sorts of things that we would have to get in place quickly in order for this recovery to work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI will now take the opportunity to very quickly quote from clauses 3(a) and (b) of the bill, which set out the primary purposes of the legislation: \u201CThe purposes of this Act are\u2014(a) to provide appropriate measures to ensure that greater Christchurch and the councils and their communities respond to, and recover from, the impacts of the Canterbury earthquakes: (b) to enable community participation in the planning of the recovery of affected communities without impeding a focused, timely, and expedited recovery:\u201D. That is the framework against which any powers under the legislation have to be exercised. It sets out the key principles against which the exercise of those powers will be judged. The bill is not about setting up a structure and framework that will be implemented from day one; it sets up a framework of powers that we can access and have recourse to if they are needed. I see them as a backstop to the usual council processes, so that if there cannot be collaboration and we cannot reach a point from which we can all move forward together, then at the end of the day there is a backstop of ultimate decision-making. I do not see anything that says that is constitutionally inappropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI do not think anyone in my communities whom I have spoken with would not say we have to have community input. Community input is fundamentally important, but at the end of the day the community must be able to draw a line in the sand and have a final decision-maker who will stand up and take a decision. If as a community, region, and Parliament we fail to accept that we will never get to a place where everybody agrees with the outcome, then we will get nowhere. I do not realistically hear that view in the debate, but I think it is worth putting that on the record. There will not be a time at which we can say yes, everyone is on board and let us move forward. Yes, we must have participation, but let us make it very, very clear that the discussion will not be endless. There will be people who leave the discussion and input without liking the results, and they will therefore feel ignored. They will not have been ignored, but not everyone will get the outcomes that they want. I bet I will not like a lot of the decisions we reach in this process. I might have done some things differently. That will be true for every Cantabrian. There has to be a point at which we say we have heard and listened to people, but now is the time to make a decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EIf anybody were to start going around stirring up dissension and concern on the grounds that not getting their own way means their views are being trampled on, then that would be playing politics. It is politicking to telling people that if they do not get the outcome they want, their views have been trampled on. It is the sort of thing that Cantabrians will very quickly turn against. If one message is coming through to me loud and clear, it is that Cantabrians want to see a way forward. They want to see positivity, and they want to see their leaders pulling together. Cantabrians want to see their leaders questioning, being involved, and disagreeing, but as soon as they start to see point-scoring, my view is that they will shut down and turn off very quickly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003ECantabrians need us to provide hope, positivity, and vision. In this legislative chamber they need us to provide the framework within which that can happen, and happen in a time frame that will allow Canterbury to get back on its feet. For those reasons I am very pleased to commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8b50959485b4571915007b0aed2193d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8b50959485b4571915007b0aed2193d\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E It is 7 weeks since Canterbury was savaged by the 22 February earthquake, and this is the first time that I as the member of Parliament for Christchurch Central have had the opportunity to speak in the House. Given that most of the fatalities occurred within my electorate\u2014the number of people who have been formally identified now stands at 172\u2014I acknowledge the huge human toll that occurred and the impact it has had not just on families within our city but on families across our planet, because many of those who died were visitors to Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the herculean and courageous efforts of so many people\u2014doctors, nurses, firefighters, and police\u2014and the rainbow nation of urban search and rescue teams that gathered from around the globe to assist us in our time in need. They did outstanding work. I stood on Latimer Square watching them work on the CTV building near some of the families who were waiting for good news to come, which in most cases did not come. I also stood and watched an Australian crew the day after the quake as they attempted to rescue a woman from the rubble. I turned to a gentleman alongside me and asked whether he knew who was in there. He said: \u201CYes, it is my wife.\u201D, and I stood with him as that woman, Ann Bodkin, was rescued alive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI acknowledge also the bravery of so many ordinary people who pulled people from the rubble, who risked their own lives as aftershocks continued, who did extraordinary things, and who were real heroes of our time. I acknowledge the stoicism of the people of Christchurch. Stoicism is a well-known characteristic of the people of Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI also pay tribute to the tolerance and patience of Cantabrians through these last 7 weeks and indeed the last 7 months. The earthquake on 22 February was not the second earthquake; in fact, it was the third, because the Boxing Day quake hit the central business district at the heart of my electorate as hard as the quake on 4 September. That tolerance and patience was exemplified at a public meeting I held last night in St Albans. It was run with my colleague Lianne Dalziel, and more than a hundred people attended. Although many of the people were frustrated and angry about the processes and time being taken to settle the issues\u2014some of which dated back to 4 September\u2014they were tolerant. They were not savaging people, which is a tribute to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI hope and trust that the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill will deliver the same sense of urgency that we saw applied in the first few weeks after the 22 February earthquake as the rescue efforts continued. That urgency is absolutely essential for the future of our city. The task ahead is huge, but there are also huge opportunities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI know that the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery, the Hon Gerry Brownlee, is concerned that public input into the decisions that are being taken might delay what the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority is attempting to deliver. That does not need to be so. I acknowledge that, as far as I am concerned, there have been some improvements to the bill from an earlier draft we saw. I welcome the improvements and take some delight in the fact that the Minister has acknowledged the need for some changes to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI welcome the select committee process\u2014as rapid as it is. At least people will have the opportunity tomorrow to provide some input to the bill. It is hugely important when we consider that the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority will dominate the life of our city for the next 5 years. It is really important to allow people that input. I also acknowledge that at least in the wording of the bill there is some reference to community input. In fact, the reference has moved from clause 66 of the earlier draft to the general policy statement at the start of the current bill: \u201CThe Bill is founded on the need for community participation in decision-making processes while balancing this against the need for a timely and coordinated recovery process.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003ECommunity input has to be allowed to happen, given the scale of the disaster we have been through and the need to do things differently this time around as we rebuild our city and rebuild it rapidly. The usual model is top-down; in this instance we need a bottom-up model. People need to be allowed genuine chances for input\u2014and rapidly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThere are mechanisms there for that to happen already. CanCERN, the Canterbury Communities\u2019 Earthquake Recovery Network, was established after the September quake. I take some pride in the fact that I chaired the first few meetings of a group of residents\u2019 associations, then stepped back, and that group went on to become CanCERN, which is now accepted by the Minister for Earthquake Recovery, by the community, by the mayor, and by the council as a very legitimate, non-political set of groups from across the communities of Christchurch. Those groups are sitting at tables with Ministers, and the council, and are able to be heard. It is an example of how communities can form and have a say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI note also that in the last few weeks another group sprang up that I have been involved in. It is called ICONiC, which stands for Interests in Conserving the Identity of Christchurch. It represents building owners and people with heritage interests who have had some role and input already into the civil defence provisions in terms of stopping the demolition of some heritage buildings, until, at least, some pause can be taken and building owners can be consulted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI would point to the fact that councillors representing wards across Christchurch are, in effect, a consultative mechanism. Community boards also can play a much wider role if they are given the chance, if they are given the power, and if they are given the mandate to be involved and to represent their communities. The bill provides for the establishment of a community forum, but it is a forum of 20 people appointed by the Minister for Earthquake Recovery, with the requirement for them to meet no more than six times a year. I am sorry, but that is not truly consultation. That is business as usual\u2014doing things as they have always been done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EWe have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for Christchurch, and for Cantabrians, to have their say in the reshaping of their city. They want to do that and they want to be involved. These are their lives and these are their communities. It is their businesses and their jobs that are at stake. They need to have more than simply a hand-picked panel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EWhy not, for instance, establish a community forum, allow anybody who wants to come, and allow that to decide who the community\u2019s representatives might be? Even if the Minister wants to still have veto powers or the right to appoint others to his forum, he could actually allow the community to decide who its representatives are. That would really be a representative body, not a panel of chosen representatives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI say, as the MP for Christchurch Central, which encompasses all of the central business district of our city, that our business community must be very well represented on that community forum and on that panel. But it must not be just the business sector. I represent suburbs that have been hard hit, and twice in some instances\u2014suburbs like Avonside, Richmond, Philipstown, Linwood, Shirley, and St Albans. They want a say in the rebuilding of their communities and their suburbs. They must be given that chance. They must be given a chance to say what sort of Christchurch they want to see. We want to see a sustainable city, we want to see a strong city, we want to see a safe city, and we want to see a city that we can all have a say in, in terms of shaping its future. We must absolutely get it right. There is a golden opportunity here, a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI exhort the Minister, even though he has taken on board some of the comments that have been made, to take the opportunities that are here in front of him now. If he does not, and if he does not include communities, then the price will come back on his head, and on the Government\u2019s head, sadly\u2014or maybe not so sadly. It will be a price too high to pay. If people do not feel a part of it, if they do not feel included in it, and if they do not feel empowered by a process or by a decision they will not buy into it. They will not accept the decisions, and if they do they will do so through gritted teeth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThis is a golden, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. I exhort the Minister, and I exhort the Government, to think very seriously about inverting the usual top-down process, and allow the communities of Christchurch to have their voice, to speak rapidly, and to be brought together in a community forum and allowed to give some indication of who they can bring together as their representatives. Let us work together for the future of our city. Kia kaha, Christchurch\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022 data-id=\u00223909f581bcc64a8fa0f396ee3225c2f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223909f581bcc64a8fa0f396ee3225c2f6\u0022\u003EAARON GILMORE (National):\u003C/span\u003E If there was ever a time in the history of New Zealand to say \u201Ccometh the hour, cometh the man\u201D, this is the time, with the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill before us. We have heard a lot across this House about some of the issues and about the powers that have been given to the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery, Gerry Brownlee, in this bill. I think that is one of the interesting things we need to touch on, and I will get to some of those dilemmas, and slight errors, and put them to the House. Gerry Brownlee, post - 4 September, was pointed out by some of our colleagues on the other side of the House as doing a great job. Mr Anderton sat there and told some of Mr Brownlee\u2019s officials that they were doing a wonderful job, post - 4 September\u2014and they were. That shows us that Minister Brownlee has the ability to inspire individuals. We heard from one of the members across the House earlier that one of the key things about this bill, and about the recovery, is the need to inspire leadership, and that is what Mr Brownlee does: he inspires leadership in his team. This bill puts in place some powers to make that happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EJust recently we heard Mr Burns talk about some of the dilemmas that exist around community consultation. I just want to correct a couple of little errors that were put forward. The bill provides for a community forum\u2014that was correctly pointed out. But the forum is to meet at least six times a year\u2014at least six times. We heard from Ruth Dyson, who pointed out that there were concerns about there being no consultation procedures with the public, in any way. Well, that is actually not correct, either, and I want to point that out. Clauses 13, 16, and 17 all provide for various mechanisms for consultation with the public in respect of the recovery strategies and recovery plans, and they are good steps forward. They may not be the right steps forward, and the Opposition may disagree with them, but those mechanisms do exist. There are also reporting mechanisms to be put in place by the Minister, on a quarterly basis, so the public can see in a transparent way what is being undertaken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EWe heard from Mr Cosgrove about some of the issues and the problems that have occurred across Christchurch, and about the issues that arise when politicians become political. I have been in a number of meetings, and I have sat with politicians from our side, and from the other side of the House. On a number of occasions things have gone very well, and that is a good thing, given what we are grappling with, at a time of rebuilding Christchurch after what was New Zealand\u2019s largest natural disaster. We have an opportunity, as has been pointed out, to rebuild my home city in a way that we never have had the opportunity to do before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EA number of people were killed. While I have the chance to, I just want to make quick mention of three of those, who were friends of mine. Betty Dickson was an 82-year-old from South Brighton. Betty Dickson had been involved in my local party organisation, and she was a wonderful lady and a supporter of mine. Samuel Gibb was a young man in the CTV building who was a cameraman. I enjoyed having a cup of coffee once a month with Sam\u2014he was a wonderful guy. I also want to talk about Lisa Willems. Lisa worked for Pyne Gould Guinness. She was an accountant in that building, and her husband, Ben Willems, is a very good friend of mine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EAgain, these are the people whom we have seen photographed in our newspapers. They may be just names to some people; to me they are people I knew personally. We have also seen people who have lost their homes. This bill puts in place powers and opportunities so that New Zealand can collectively have control and have the ability to rebuild our city in the way we want. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EWe allow a significant number of powers in this bill, and there are some concerns about that. We will go to Christchurch tomorrow to hear submissions, and we will hear submissions tonight, from a number of people, which may point out some things that we can do a bit better in respect of this bill. I look forward to that happening, and I look forward to the comments that people may put forward to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EBut time is of the essence. We cannot put in place another overlay of long-winded community consultation, because we have to rebuild our city as fast as possible. I live in what is called the \u201Cno-flush zone\u201D, which means we cannot flush our toilets. Many people might find that amusing, but I can tell members that it is not amusing. We have to rebuild our infrastructure so that the 70,000 people who are also in the no-flush zone can live their lives and get back to normality. We have to get in a situation where the roads we are driving along are no longer ski field roads or farm track roads, but ones that we can drive along in the normal way. That will all take time, effort, and money, and this bill puts in place the apparatus to allow a back-up situation where that can be put in place\u2014a recovery strategy that overlays what we want to do; a recovery plan that might be at a community level, a social level, or a thematic level, in terms of issues around a particular group or organisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EThese are good things. This is a good bill, and in the time to come we will look back and say that this was the right thing to do. I think we will find that in 10 years\u2019 time\u2014and, hopefully, I will be sitting in this House in 10 years\u2019 time\u2014we will look back and say that we passed the bill for the right reasons. We look forward to the rest of the bill\u2019s passage through the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u00226f6a037b46d14b16818709b6a2def54d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f6a037b46d14b16818709b6a2def54d\u0022\u003EHon JIM ANDERTON (Leader\u2014Progressive):\u003C/span\u003E There are two things Canterbury people need. They need to get on with things as quickly as possible, and they need to be involved in the decisions about the recovery of their city. For some reason, there is a view that public participation is in conflict with rapid decision-making. In fact, it is my view that they are both essential to each other. We cannot rebuild quickly if we do not take all of the people in the community along with us. People who are left out will challenge the process, they will feel disillusioned, and, ultimately, the process will fail. There is no point consulting if we do not get the processes and decisions moving, because people will simply leave if there is inaction, or they will stay away, and some of them will not come back, or they will try to push on, on their own, when what we need is to coordinate all of the efforts to rebuild Christchurch on a community-wide and collective basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EI support the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill because it enables the immense amount of work that Christchurch faces to be done, and it offers the opportunity for genuine consultation. I say opportunity, because basically it is not what is written on a piece of paper or even in legislation; it is how it is implemented and what is done about the proposals for consultation. Consultation in writing is not the same as taking the opportunity for consultation. I warn that it is critical that the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority consults and that the process is open to everyone in Canterbury who wants to participate, it is transparent, and it is accountable. That is why I will be supporting amendments to the bill at the Committee stage. Those amendments, which I have looked at carefully, from colleagues on this side of the House seem to me to add some substance to, particularly, the community relationships and community consultation that I believe is essential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EI recently read an article by Steven Ames, who has been in New Zealand looking at issues like the recovery of Christchurch in other arenas. I summarise what he said was the challenge for Christchurch: \u201CWe have to shift our perspective from \u2018recovering what we once were\u2019 to \u2018building what we seek to become\u2019.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EHe outlines the phases on the road back from disaster, and they will be clearly apparent to anyone who lives in Christchurch. Firstly, there is the rescue phase, when the hours after an emergency require people to be saved or the removal of those who have been killed or injured. The second phase is recovery, as we reconnect the essential services of water, power, sewerage, roading, and so on. Then there is the stage that we are approaching now, but we are not really there yet, which we could call the rebuilding stage. But a comparison of cities that have rebuilt brilliantly and cities that have struggled shows that there is probably a need for a fourth stage. Ames describes it as \u201Crevisioning\u201D. The ultimate success of rebuilding depends on how much the city is able to understand how its context has changed. In other words, there has been a cataclysmic event. How are we now approaching that, and what understanding do we have of the implications of that event on us all? How much people understand where they may be headed, what the emerging trends and issues are, and what lies ahead will be critically important to what they, and the city, aspire to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EI want to read into the record the conclusion that Ames comes to: \u201CCity leaders would be remiss only to think of what must be rebuilt or replaced to bring the city back to where it was on the eve of the quake. Human nature suggests that when disaster strikes, we hunker down\u201D\u2014and we surely did some of that\u2014\u201Cconvinced that we cannot afford the luxury of thinking beyond our most urgent needs.\u201D Then he concludes: \u201CBut this moment also represents a singular opportunity for Christchurch and all of Canterbury to rethink, revision, and reinvent itself.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EThe ability for Christchurch and Canterbury people to reimagine Christchurch requires leadership capable of engaging with all of the city\u2019s people. The success of what we have to do will therefore depend much more on that leadership than it does on any structure we have. I have been in business, in politics, and in other walks of life long enough to know that we can have the most brilliant organisational structure imaginable, but if we do not have the right people running it, it is a waste of time, and vice versa. The success of what we do, therefore, will depend on the quality of the leadership we put in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EI am not as concerned with the structure of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority as I am with having the right people to run it. We need people leading the rebuild who understand the stages of recovery that I have outlined to the House this afternoon. We need people experienced in managing large enterprises, with an understanding of Christchurch, its ethos, and its culture, and with a vision for its future. We need leaders who have the confidence of the people and are able to communicate with them and get things done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EIf there is one thing that I know about failure in Christchurch in the recent 6 or 7 months, it is not so much the talking about the problems that are straight in front of us; it is information and communication about what is next and what can be done, and involving people in those decisions, the strategic plan, and so on. Very few people in Christchurch have any grasp of that, and that seems to me to be a lack of proper communication. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EThe ability to engage the community and get things moving was a big disappointment after the first quake. I have to say that, and I think the Government\u2019s response reflects that, to some extent. It did not happen well enough, and not enough was done soon enough. Contrast that with what has happened, for example, in Kaiapoi. People say that Kaiapoi is a lot smaller than Christchurch, so it is easier there. Well, there is an element of truth in that, but actually Kaiapoi did some things that Christchurch did not do. They got cracking early, they talked to their people, community meetings were held, they were reheld, ideas were accepted, they were tested, they were put back to the community, and, finally, the community had a strategic plan drawn up, which they recognised, studied, discussed, and then signed off. Not all of them agreed, of course, but they did agree that they had been consulted properly and that they knew what was happening. Guess what? What is happening in Kaiapoi is happening very quickly, and I have to say that Christchurch is in nowhere near the position that Kaiapoi is in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EDealing with the problems is not easy; that is true. But it has not been as fast as it needs to be, and it has not, to date, adequately involved people, and that needs to change. I understand why the Government is taking control, and I do not blame it. It is a recognition that a lot of taxpayers\u2019 money is at stake, and also that things need to be handled better than they were after the first quake. What we need to see now in this legislation is a commitment to listening, and making the community part of the rebuild. People need to feel that their views are taken into account, and that the kind of Christchurch they want is being created. Otherwise, if they feel it is not the Christchurch they were born into, came to, or want to experience again, they will feel no commitment to it, and it will fail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003EI recognise that the Government has not abused its sweeping and extraordinary powers under the first Christchurch emergency legislation. I am pleased to be able to say that to the House. This gives me hope that the Government will continue to use its powers in good faith in the future. But it has to do more than that. It has to reach out to a shocked and fragile community\u2014and I do not know that many New Zealanders fully appreciate the fragility and the shock that is being felt in the Christchurch community. The Government and the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority, which we are setting up today, has to engage with the people of Christchurch on these issues. So that is how we will move forward from recovery to rebuilding a new vision for Christchurch, and in the true Canterbury spirit I know that we have the resilience and the strength to do exactly that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022776cbdd2e5ae430880f92e5bbe732591\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 111\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002217c42303b78e4e9eb5066e8e1e7730fd\u0022\u003EHousing Corporation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f43c6d13b73e4fdcbaa28d5a3cc175de\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u00220e9748063c104c59a2a9f0d8bd635d2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e9748063c104c59a2a9f0d8bd635d2e\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Housing Corporation Amendment Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the Housing Corporation Amendment Bill be referred to the Social Services Committee, that the committee report finally to the House on or before 6 June 2011, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting except during oral questions, and during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, and outside the Wellington region despite Standing Orders 187, 189(a), and 190(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EIn December I announced the Government\u2019s response to the report of the Housing Shareholders\u2019 Advisory Group. This included a decision to consolidate housing policy advice functions within the Department of Building and Housing by 1 July 2011. Consolidating advice functions within the department will allow for a more coherent integrated overview of housing sector issues and advice to Ministers. It will also provide greater synergy, strengthen capability, and avoid duplication of effort across agencies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThis bill proposes an amendment to the Housing Corporation Act 1974 to support this change. The corporation will no longer be expected to provide the Minister of Housing with housing sector policy advice or with any advice or information on housing or services that does not relate to the provision of State housing. It will no longer be required to undertake research or monitoring activities for the purpose of advising the Minister of Housing on housing or services that do not relate to State housing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003ETo help give effect to these changes, the Housing Corporation Act 1974 will be amended to prevent Housing New Zealand Corporation employees who are offered a commensurate position within the Department of Building and Housing from claiming redundancy. Housing New Zealand Corporation employees who are offered and accept positions within the Department of Building and Housing will be transferred on terms that are commensurate with their current terms and conditions of employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EThe proposed amendments contained in the bill are necessary to facilitate the consolidation of housing policy advice within the Department of Building and Housing as the Government intended. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8727836e3204e63957455f68a702202\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8727836e3204e63957455f68a702202\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Is that it? Really? Wow. I am happy to stand and speak on the first reading of the Housing Corporation Amendment Bill. The reality is this bill is just another piece of tinkering around the edges from a Government that has absolutely no plan to deal with the ongoing housing crisis in New Zealand, and particularly, in the instance of the Housing New Zealand Corporation, the crisis in social housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI will say from the outset that Labour will support this bill going to the Social Services Committee, but we do so with enormous reservations, and we cannot guarantee we will support it beyond that. We think the legislation is a timely opportunity to have a discussion about the Housing New Zealand Corporation and its current direction and focus, which have changed dramatically since the change in Government. There has been a cultural shift in the Housing New Zealand Corporation, and that shift has been punitive and has made things far more difficult for tenants. In fact, tenants have been completely left out of the loop. The reports that the Minister of Housing has commissioned include the huge Housing Shareholders\u2019 Advisory Group report, which was about State housing. One group of people had absolutely no involvement whatsoever in that report: the tenants of the Housing New Zealand Corporation. The tenants, whom the entire piece of research was about, were not consulted, were not involved, and, as far as I know, have still not been talked to about the implications of that report for them as clients of the Housing New Zealand Corporation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EIt concerns me to hear the Minister talking about the separation of State housing policy from other housing policy. Of course, housing is a continuum. It goes from the social housing that the Housing New Zealand Corporation provides all the way through to the affordable housing initiatives brought in by the previous Labour Government, some of which have been continued under this Government and some of which have been scrapped. But State housing does not exist in isolation from the rest of the housing market. I am very concerned, and maybe I misheard or misinterpreted the Minister\u2019s comments, but the idea that State housing policy will somehow be completely separate from policy for housing everywhere else is, I believe, a step backwards. In saying that, I also know that there are some concerns, particularly within the community housing sector, that there is a conflict of interest in the Housing New Zealand Corporation providing policy advice when it is also a stakeholder. I think that is an issue we can discuss at the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI want to talk a little bit about the history of State housing in New Zealand, because sometimes Government members forget where it came from. It goes back to Michael Joseph Savage and the first Labour Government. A very wise decision was made back then that taxpayers\u2019 money would be used, would be invested, to support low-income families unable to access appropriate and affordable housing. Generations of New Zealanders\u2014generations of them\u2014have invested taxpayer money and have done so proudly. As a country we have been proud of our investment in social housing, proud of the way that we have supported those families who, from time to time and for varying lengths of time, have needed the assistance of State housing, which started under the first Labour Government and continues to this day. It has been a very wise investment. It has provided many families with the kind of support they need to raise their families in conditions that are appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThose families have included that of the Prime Minister of this country. The Prime Minister of this country grew up in a State house. He likes to make a big deal of it. I have to ask why, then, he stopped the building of 500 State houses in his own electorate. He said it would be economic vandalism for poor people to have sea views\u2014economic vandalism. Well, that is not what New Zealanders believe about State housing. It was a very, very disappointing comment from a Prime Minister who has traded on his State house past. He has pulled up the ladder behind him like so many other National Party Ministers and members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe 1990s was a very turbulent time for State house tenants. Nearly 13,000 State houses were hocked off, mostly to developers, under the guise\u2014and we have heard this again now\u2014of letting State house tenants own their own homes. Well, there is a reason State house tenants are in State houses: because they are on a low income and are unlikely to be able to purchase their own homes. They cannot afford it. I note that the policy the Minister brought in again of allowing State house tenants to purchase their own homes\u2014although this time he did not make the mistake of subsidising them for his mates; he put them out at market values\u2014has been an abysmal failure. It raised the expectations and the hopes of thousands of State house families who thought it would be their pathway into homeownership. They were devastated when they realised that it was nothing more than a slogan\u2014nothing more than a slogan\u2014and that the Government was not going to do anything to help them into homeownership and to improve the affordability of homeownership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe Government brought in market rents. It got rid of income-related rents and brought in market rents. It drove thousands of families into poverty overnight. The Government carried out no modernisation whatsoever of the State housing stock throughout that time. I will read a comment from the housing Minister at the time, Tony Ryall, who is still on the National front bench. This is what he said in general debate in the mid-1990s: \u201CI think it is much better that the State is not involved in housing, and that we say to New Zealanders that our effort will go into putting people into private enterprise housing.\u201D He then said in 1999: \u201CNational MPs inherently do not have a desire to expand the level of State housing in New Zealand. It is not an issue that is dear to our core constituency.\u201D The more things change, the more they stay the same. Nothing has changed between that National Government, largely, and this National Government. Those core values are still there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EWhere have we seen that? We have seen it in the fact that the State house budget was slashed\u2014slashed\u2014by 80 percent last year. Mr Heatley has had to swallow the dead rat of income-related rents, as has his party, because abolishing them in the 1990s was so unpopular. But National has not done it because it agreed with income-related rents; it has done it because it knew that it would have been politically untenable to go forward with a policy of getting rid of income-related rents once again. It took a Labour Government in the 2000s to bring back income-related rents for State house tenants. We rebuilt 8,000 of the 13,000 State houses that were hocked off during the 1990s, and we did that at a time when there was a major housing boom and it was difficult to get builders. We carried out modernisation at a time when it was difficult to find people to do the work, because in the 1990s builders had left the country in droves and the National Government had done nothing about it. It had done nothing to keep those builders in work or keep them in training. So when we came to another housing boom we did not have the skilled labour to be able to do everything we wanted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EDoes this sound familiar? Well, it should, because it is happening right now. It is happening again. This National Government has learnt nothing. In the last 2\u00BD years we could have been building housing. Over the last 3 years Australia has put more than $5 billion into housing as part of an economic stimulus package. It has added 20,000 State houses to its State housing stock. And do you know what? It has kept builders in work, it has kept building companies in employment, and it has kept local businesses open because of the purchases that are being made. It has kept income tax and sales tax going through, as well. What did we do? Nothing\u2014absolutely nothing. Our building sector is in the deepest recession it has ever been in since records began. The chief executive of the Registered Master Builders Federation said that once again we will not be able to respond to demand whenever we come out of a recession, because our builders will not be there. Our builders are leaving; they are going overseas. Our apprentices are going overseas, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EWhat was the Government\u2019s answer to the housing crisis? It slashed the budget for State housing by more than 80 percent in last year\u2019s Budget. Mr Heatley likes to say to the housing sector that times are tough and there is no money. Well, there was plenty of money for $15 billion worth of tax cuts, which overwhelmingly went to people who did not need them and have not spent them in the economy. There was plenty of money for the plastic waka up in Auckland; it would have been nice to spend it on housing. There was a lot more money for private schools, and $2 billion for the \u201CHoliday Highway\u201D north of Auckland. That is the kind of infrastructure the National Government believes in: infrastructure that gets Ministers to their holiday houses 7 minutes faster. Well, the kind of infrastructure that Labour believes in is housing. Housing is core infrastructure. It should be a higher priority for this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe second thing the Government wants to do is hide the problem by bringing in an options and advice service that has no function other than to keep people off the waiting list. That is what it is doing. Emergency accommodation providers are saying that people are turning up, the Housing New Zealand Corporation having turned them away or put them into boarding houses. They are living in completely unacceptable situations because the Minister will not let them have a needs assessment before they are farmed out to the private sector. The only reason someone would make that decision would be to keep people off the waiting lists, and I say congratulations to the Minister, because it is working. The Government is hiding the figures so that it does not have to deal with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe last thing to do, if one is a National Government, is to make it someone else\u2019s problem. National says to the community housing sector that it is now its job to build houses, not the Government\u2019s. Labour believes in supporting the community housing sector to grow, but it must grow as well as Government housing, as well as Housing New Zealand Corporation housing, not instead of it. Instead we have a Minister and a Government that want the community housing sector to do their job for them. Generations and generations of taxpayers in this country have not invested in social housing to provide housing for vulnerable families only for this Government to hock them off in more asset sales, and to treat those tenants as though they should be ashamed to live in a State house. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u002264a16d231c41494787d75568858b07e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264a16d231c41494787d75568858b07e6\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to speak in the first reading of the Housing Corporation Amendment Bill today. It is really interesting to listen to the member of the Opposition who has just resumed her seat, Moana Mackey. She has a very short memory. She said that there are not enough State houses and that the houses are not good enough. She must remember that under her Government\u2019s reign, no money was spent on maintaining those State houses. The Labour Government transferred that money into building houses, and turned itself into a slum landlord. What do slum landlords do? They create huge health issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222b0f9e152b445a784e0a8d87839dac6\u0022\u003EHon Maryan Street\u003C/span\u003E: Get your facts right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298d4f524856a4b638d8a470d6da269fa\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS\u003C/span\u003E: Maryan Street can sit there and point her finger at me, but the reality is that at the Social Services Committee, when the Housing New Zealand Corporation came in and spoke to us, the Labour Government was held to account for spending no money on maintaining that stock, and for becoming a slum landlord. Members opposite can try to rewrite history as much as they want, but we on this side of the House know the truth, and we are trying to make a difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EAs much as Labour put more money into the system and into building houses, it let tenants stay in slum conditions. I know that the people of \u014Chariu will be proud of this Government, because we are focusing Housing New Zealand Corporation on the houses that people are actually in. We are focusing the corporation on what counts, and that is looking after the houses that people are in, and looking after the tenants. That is where the corporation\u2019s focus should be, and that is what this bill is about: taking the policy arm out of Housing New Zealand Corporation and allowing it to focus on the tenants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EI am taking just a short call in support of this bill. I look forward to it coming to the Social Services Committee, which I chair, and hearing the debate in that select committee. This is good legislation, and I look forward to listening to the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022 data-id=\u00222e7b627fe58b43abb5d5be4b8faa497e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e7b627fe58b43abb5d5be4b8faa497e\u0022\u003EHon MARYAN STREET (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak with a great deal of interest on the Housing Corporation Amendment Bill. Housing New Zealanders is a complex business. It is a difficult area for any Government to come to terms with, and I will not get into a whole lot of blaming in terms of when the need first arose. I will talk about the inaction of this Government, and I will talk about some history on housing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EWe will support this bill at its first reading, but I say to Mr Heatley that we are very, very keen to hear the arguments that explain why policy should be taken out of the Housing New Zealand Corporation, which, after all, deals with the praxis. Why should it be removed from the area where officials are most concerned, and are at the pointy end of the provision of housing for the neediest in our community?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EI start with the fact that, as my colleague Moana Mackey has alluded to, in the 1990s, when Tony Ryall was the Minister responsible for Housing New Zealand, over 13,000 State houses were hocked off. They were hocked off to private developers and to this Government\u2019s mates. That is a story that we are seeing repeated now. It does not matter whether it is through overseas development assistance contracts to Mark Blumsky, or the appointment of John Hayes to a panel; it is still doing favours for mates. That is what it is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EOver the 9 years that Labour was in Government we built or acquired 8,600 more State houses. First of all, we restored income-related rents, which lifted the 68,000 people who live in State houses out of poverty. By restricting the rent that they paid to 25 percent of income, we could allow them to live in dignity again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EWe did not fix everything, but we tried to get to grips with the biggest property bubble that this country had ever seen. Between 1997 and 2007 we saw the biggest property inflation bubble that this country had ever seen. What did we do about it? We instituted the Welcome Home Loan to assist people to get ownership of their first homes. We introduced KiwiSaver, and the system that allowed a young family to capitalise on their KiwiSaver savings after 5 years, so that they could have a deposit to put on a first home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EWe brought in a shared equity scheme, where the buyer had a part interest and the Government had a part interest. We audited all Government property and we audited local government property to see which parts of it were suitable for residential housing and which were not. But all that Mr Heatley could do in Opposition was to say that the Labour Government wanted to build a house on the Auckland Zoo. He tried to score points in that fatuous, little-boy way he does, and tried to make the need of New Zealanders a joke\u2014he tried to make the need of New Zealanders a joke. But housing is not a joke, and I make no apology for getting a bit wound up about it while Mr Heatley still considers it a laughing matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EWe had M\u0101ori housing initiatives that saw State houses being moved out of areas where they were no longer required into rural areas where they were required. I saw that process working well. I saw it working well in the Ureweras. I saw it working well with T\u016Bhoe in charge of a housing project. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EWe brought in legislation so that local authorities could ensure that 10 percent of any residential building development could be put aside for affordable housing. What has this Government done? It has scrapped it. It did not even look to see whether the legislation is now even more applicable than it was when I introduced it in 2008. We concentrated on urban renewal, and on greater density of State houses on Crown land. We tried and tried to develop policy that would address the housing needs of the most disadvantaged in our society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ENot only that; through all of the schemes I have mentioned we tried to address the issue of houses whose escalating price took them out of the range of first-home buyers. Now we have an average house price in Auckland of $580,000\u2014$580,000. What is this Minister of Housing bringing to the House to answer the fact that there is not a young family alive in Auckland who can afford a $580,000 house as their first home? It is this bill\u2014this tiny, flimsy little piece of legislation\u2014which barely runs to 4 pages, I tell the Minister. It is a pathetic gesture that says that the Government is going to take the policy-making function out of the Housing New Zealand Corporation and put it into the Department of Building and Housing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ELet me give members just one example. Also tabled this afternoon was the regulatory impact statement, which has been put together by the Department of Building and Housing. I feel sorry for its staff; they have a Minister who does not know what to do. They are really trying not to overreach him, so they have given us a regulatory impact statement that has nothing to do with the bill. I tell Mr Heatley that the bill is meant to have a regulatory impact statement attached to it, but I have here the regulatory impact statement and it has nothing to do with the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThe statement is talking about the Housing Shareholders\u2019 Advisory Group report, called Home and Housed: a Vision for Social Housing in New Zealand. It talks about the group\u2019s 19 recommendations. The Department of Building and Housing has done its best to provide a regulatory impact statement for the Minister, but when the Minister coughs up pathetic offerings like this bill we know that this National Government has no interest in housing the needy. It either has no interest or has no wit, or perhaps has neither interest nor wit. Perhaps it is lacking in intelligence, but there are intelligent people amongst the officials who have the brains to put together some policies that could address this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EThis is a serious issue\u2014this is a serious issue, I tell the Minister, and it deserves serious contemplation. From this Government we now have a Productivity Commission. Can members guess what its first item of business is? It is to find out why houses are so unaffordable, as if it is a new problem! It is not a new problem; work has been done on it and policies have been put in place for it. This Government needs only to pick up the work that has already been done by very able officials, instead of coming to the House with this pathetic piece of nonsense, which may well take the policy-making function away from the praxis\u2014in other words, away from the people who know what they are doing in housing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003ELet us talk about whether policy ought to be vested in the Department of Building and Housing. I tell the Minister that that issue should be discussed at the select committee. Let us hope that members opposite engage with it, because we have heard no evidence from the tiny little truncated speeches, of half a dozen sentences at best, offered up by that Government\u2019s members. Those speeches are a poor apology for a statement in support of a pathetic piece of legislation that does nothing to address housing affordability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227df975cd-93d2-4f55-9bc5-d2790e28e043\u0022\u003EHousing affordability is a critical issue in this country. There are people who cannot afford to make ends meet; they cannot afford the rents out there in the private sector. The Minister cares not a jot about any of those people. If he cared about them, he might think up something better than this completely inadequate legislation. Let us have the conversation about where the policy should be vested, whether it should be in the Department of Building and Housing or in the Housing New Zealand Corporation. Let us have the discussion, but let us not pretend that this bill is an answer to housing need in this country. This bill is no more an answer to housing need in this country than Mr Heatley is a competent Minister. It is completely ludicrous that we should be debating this bill in the context of State housing today. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u00224d55b5f741e14204a967e4963e3f51ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d55b5f741e14204a967e4963e3f51ca\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Deputy Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. I rise to take a call on the Housing Corporation Amendment Bill. The Green Party is disappointed that we are discussing this bill so soon after its introduction, with such a poor regulatory impact statement, with no evidence given by the Minister, with such short calls, and now under urgency. It is disappointing to have legislation going through this Chamber in such a fashion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe bill amends the Housing Corporation Act 1974 to consolidate housing policy advice to Ministers within the Department of Building and Housing. As the Minister of Housing said, the Housing New Zealand Corporation will retain its operational policy capability in order to support its business activities, but it will no longer be required to ensure that the Minister of Housing receives the appropriate advice, or any other advice, on information with regard to housing or to services related to housing. The Green Party is yet to see any evidence from the Minister or from other speakers that this is desirable\u2014no evidence whatsoever\u2014so we will be opposing this bill in its first reading. We will be entering the select committee process with an open mind, because, ultimately, we want better State house services for Kiwis, but we do not think that this bill goes anywhere near delivering that. The Green Party believes that this bill is a diversion away from the key issue facing New Zealand: the dire shortage of housing and the Government\u2019s dismal failure to build more State houses on its watch. The Government seems intent to divest itself of its responsibility as a housing provider, and this bill, in that context, furthers that by limiting the Housing New Zealand Corporation\u2019s policy advisory role.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EHousing is a basic need for all New Zealanders, and it is vital that the Government plays a leading role in ensuring that everybody is guaranteed this basic, essential human right. I did not grow up in a State house, but one of our most prominent parliamentarians did\u2014the Prime Minister. For thousands of Kiwis a State house has meant that they have been able to grow up with opportunities in a decent house. The Housing New Zealand Corporation website, for Ms Mackey\u2019s knowledge, points all the way back to 1905, to Seddon\u2019s Workers\u2019 Dwelling Act, which was potentially the start of the State housing sector in New Zealand. The website goes through the railway department\u2019s workers\u2019 dwellings and the housing factories that were built, through to the lenient State lending programmes of the 1920s, and all the way through to the 1930s. Providing State housing and social housing has a much longer history\u2014in fact, 106 years\u2019 worth of history\u2014but this vital role of Government seems to be lacking from the Minister\u2019s attention. He seems to be focusing on minutiae\u2014on tiny bills like this one, which is only 4 pages long\u2014without looking at the big picture, and without looking at the actual need that is out there in our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EToday the Housing New Zealand Corporation manages\u2014I looked it up\u201469,489 State houses, but, unfortunately, it has more than 8,800 Kiwis on the waiting list. I think it is an indictment on the Government\u2019s role as the State housing provider that so many Kiwis are on that waiting list when there is so much need, and when builders out there are dying for work. They are looking for work, yet we have so many people on the State house waiting list. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI have been touring the country looking at some of our coldest, dampest, worst rental properties in my bid to promote my Energy Efficiency Conservation (Warm Healthy Rentals) Amendment Bill. What I have discovered in talking to the different sector groups is that we have 1 million substandard homes in New Zealand, which every day lead to 50 people being hospitalised at a cost of $3,000 a night, and more than 780 people do not attend school or are not at work as a result of their poor housing standards. The economic benefits of addressing this issue are significant, and I acknowledge our ability to work with the Government through a memorandum of understanding to deliver, as I understand it, more than 90,000 warm, healthy retrofits. For every $1 we are investing as a nation, we are seeing $2 in economic benefits. Research from the New Zealand Business Council for Sustainable Development shows that if we look after those 1 million substandard homes by insulating and retrofitting them, productivity improvements will be in the order of potentially $17 million, there will be $54 million worth of health savings, and there will be smaller energy bills at an amazing saving worth $425 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe 69,000 State houses that the State manages make the State the nation\u2019s biggest landlord. The State plays an important role in making sure housing affordability and standards do not slip precariously, as may happen if we leave it up to the market, with no State provision. The fundamental issue facing us in 2011 is widespread housing deprivation, and this Government simply is not investing enough of its money in State housing or the housing sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI will look at just a couple of parts of the bill. I guess there is not much to it, so it will be brief. Firstly, we will look to evidence presented to the Social Services Committee that the streamlining of housing policy advice into one ministry will actually achieve better outcomes, but we have not seen that evidence today. This bill has just been chucked on the table. The bill states that the Housing New Zealand Corporation will no longer be expected to undertake research and monitoring activities for the purpose of advising the Minister of Housing on housing and services related to housing. I acknowledge the concern from the community housing sector and the argument that it is good to have policy advice separate from the functions that are delivered bureaucratically. If one agency provides both, the policy advice could be seen to be self-serving to the bureaucracy of the agency, rather than directed to the people to whom the agency is meant to be delivering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThis bill could also be seen as simply an excuse to reduce that capacity for good policy advice on State housing. I am concerned about the Minister because the risk is that he will potentially be worse off and receive less diverse advice from which to make his decisions. The Housing New Zealand Corporation is currently the primary provider of policy advice. Although the bill makes provisions for the transfer of staff to the Department of Building and Housing, I and the Parliamentary Library cannot find the actual number of staff in the policy advice section, which is currently not available. I understand that the policy advice section sits within the governance and assurance business groups. The library contacted them directly on my behalf and was told that the numbers would not be released because the Minister had directed them not to. As a result of the transfer of duties, they are in the process of a consultation with the affected staff and will not release that information until the final number of staff is known. I imagine there is considerable nervousness amongst the staff at the moment, and I want to acknowledge that in the Chamber tonight. I ask the Minister for an assurance that there will not be policy adviser redundancies factored into the transition of the policy advice functions to the Department of Building and Housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ESecondly, this bill is part of the National Government\u2019s ideological trend to simply merge departments, much like the legislative takeover of the National Library and Archives New Zealand by the Department of Internal Affairs, or the Ministry of Fisheries being taken into the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry\u2014for no good reason. It seems to be an ideological slogan of efficiencies and streamlining shouted out by the Government benches. I heard a few more slogans in the Minister\u2019s speech. No doubt Labour will demerge those departments in the ongoing cycle we have seen over the last couple of decades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EDivesting responsibilities seems to be the key aim of this bill and the Government\u2019s whole approach to State housing. The Government needs to retain its key role in State housing. The bill does not exist in isolation, and in a context where the Government is divesting its responsibilities as a State housing provider, I repeat that the Government needs to retain its role in State housing. The Home and Housed: A Vision for Social Housing in New Zealand report released by the Government shows that the current social housing model is struggling to meet demand. It identified that we have between 8,500 to 20,000 Kiwi households living in extreme housing need. The task force found that there was a shortage of 70,000 homes in New Zealand. That was, needless to say, before the earthquake in Canterbury. Clearly we are facing a housing crisis in New Zealand, yet the Government seems intent to be divesting its responsibilities, and the Green Party believes that the Government needs to retain its key role as a State housing provider and considerably increase the State housing stock.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s housing plans are inadequate in relation to discussing renewable tenancies, potentially selling State houses, and leaving more up to the community sector. Rather than investing in our struggling building sector at the moment and using the housing crisis as an opportunity to boost our employment, the budget for improving and buying State houses was cut by more than 80 percent by the Minister from $120 million to $18 million in the last Budget. Rather than building more State houses, the Government has announced that it will potentially sell off 40,000 houses, or two-thirds of the State housing stock. Rather than building more State houses, the Government is simply passing the buck. It is great that the Government recognises the need to build up the role of the community sector\u2014and the Green Party wholeheartedly supports that\u2014but support for the community sector needs to be alongside investment in State housing, not despite it or instead of it. John Key\u2019s Government needs to invest in State housing, not divest its role as the most important player in the New Zealand housing market. The Government should be focused on building. Everyone in New Zealand deserves a warm, dry, affordable house. Decent housing is a human right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EEarlier this year the Green Party released its Mind the Gap package, which would provide investment in State and community housing. The Mind the Gap package would create 6,000 new State homes over 3 years, creating more than 28,000 jobs and healthy, warm homes for people who need those most. We would also invest $200 million in community housing to build 500 homes and create 3,500 jobs. Housing deprivation drives inequality, and the evidence shows that inequality is bad for everyone in society, not just the most vulnerable people directly affected by poverty. In conclusion, the Green Party will be voting against this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u002285087fd92bba4b1aabb4a6fef85ab5f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285087fd92bba4b1aabb4a6fef85ab5f5\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to stand as the MP for Te Tai Tonga to speak on the Housing Corporation Amendment Bill. Housing, particularly in the South Island, is something that we are really interested in. We are particularly interested in measures to provide warm housing, because we really miss out on that in the South Island. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe policy on housing for M\u0101ori, in particular, really needs to be looked at, because so many of us have large families as M\u0101ori. I remember, as my young family were growing up, being crammed into tiny little houses with our five kids. It was not a pretty sight, particularly when they became teenagers and we had to find room for everybody to be able study and do all of those things that would enable them to grow up healthy. In Te Tai Tonga we know that housing is one of the greatest concerns for our people. Many M\u0101ori are living in substandard housing, and many M\u0101ori are tenants of Housing New Zealand Corporation, so we are vitally interested in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWhen I was the managing solicitor at Te Ratonga Ture, the M\u0101ori Legal Service, I recall that one of the top issues we dealt with was housing. Many people came into us seeking help to deal with Housing New Zealand Corporation. As a constituent MP I can say one of the top issues constituents come to us and seek our help with is housing. I say again that many people come to seek help in dealing with Housing New Zealand Corporation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EIn Christchurch, Housing New Zealand Corporation has been doing a relatively good job since the earthquake, but unfortunately for the people who are leaving Christchurch and looking for assistance to find houses in other parts of New Zealand, again Housing New Zealand Corporation is not doing a great job. Those people really need help. Just yesterday I had another constituent come into my Kilbirnie office absolutely frustrated with the lack of service she receives from her housing manager, and with the time it is taking to have her concerns sorted out. She has been complaining for 2\u00BD years and has not received any help. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWill separating out the policy arm from the poor implementation arm improve service? Will it improve policy advice? I do not know whether it will, but I am certainly interested in listening to people, to the public, and to the interest groups to hear what they have to say on that. So I look forward to the select committee process and to what people have to say about this legislation. I certainly hope we have a proper select committee process. We will support the bill at this stage, but I look forward to hearing from the public on it. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00224859dfda3f5d409db088c7a469fbf95c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224859dfda3f5d409db088c7a469fbf95c\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak in support of the Housing Corporation Amendment Bill. Contrary to the concerns we heard from Moana Mackey earlier in this debate, in these difficult times I suggest it is more important than ever that we concentrate our resources in the Public Service on the delivery of quality services at the front line, with a minimum of bureaucracy, duplication, and inefficiency. Ms Mackey seemed to believe that duplication and layers of bureaucracy are essential. In fact, it was only when Maryan Street rose to her feet that I realised that Labour is actually in support of this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a7602e80fc24cc39ac233cbb0eb7f75\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member, but the time has come for me to leave the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3c79eb417a84538930d1d7ecb5a0b4e\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: Before the dinner adjournment I was making the point that it actually took two Labour speakers to clarify that the Opposition is supporting this bill at its first reading. I mention that point again because listeners to this debate could be forgiven for thinking they are hotly opposed to it. In fact, Maryan Street was positively vitriolic in some of her comments even though she said Labour members would vote for the bill to be referred to a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe changes in this bill will focus Housing New Zealand Corporation on its primary purpose of providing good-quality State housing to those who are most in need of such support in our society for the duration of that need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022954957ebb90441d8b7353f0b5f30a77b\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, Tim! Speak from the heart. Stop reading it off a bit of paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220dcb392dea84b2ba30b66b6d82aac09\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: I am sure that even the Hon Shane Jones will understand and support that objective. I have had the opportunity to see the range and quality of Housing New Zealand Corporation properties and stock in the suburbs of the Hamilton West electorate. I have been very impressed by the new houses and units that have been built in recent times. Ours is a rapidly growing city, and the corporation has a big challenge in keeping up with the demand. Added to that, the challenges associated with maintaining and repairing some of the older Housing New Zealand Corporation houses are considerable and can cause angst for the tenants of those dwellings. I am sure that all electorate MPs in this House will have had quite a lot of experience of dealing with concerns of that nature. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EGiven the magnitude of those tasks it is appropriate that Housing New Zealand Corporation be directed to this work and not diverted by a secondary obligation to provide policy advice that is currently also provided by another agency, namely the Department of Building and Housing. The building and maintenance challenges I have spoken of are properly the concern of the Department of Building and Housing, and only Labour members could believe that it takes two Government departments to do the same job. That is the mentality that brought about an explosion of bureaucracy without improving core services in the previous decade, and that diverted increasingly scarce resources from important areas of need. This bill will help to rectify matters in one important area of social policy and I welcome its introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9fa8ccbb88c49bf9dd50122c26c55b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9fa8ccbb88c49bf9dd50122c26c55b1\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Assistant Speaker Robertson, I take this opportunity to congratulate you on your elevation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI feel sorry for this Minister of Housing; being the Minister of Housing in a National Government is like the graveyard shift. It is like being the \u201CMinister of Coalmines\u201D in a Green-led Government, or the Minister for State Owned Enterprises in an ACT-led Government; their heart is just not in it. This National Government is ideologically predisposed against the State intervening in the housing market to help New Zealanders get a secure roof over their heads, to get people out of living in caravan parks and cars, and to get them into safe, healthy, affordable homes. We support this light, slight, incidental Housing Corporation Amendment Bill. It can go off to the select committee where we can debate the pros and cons of whether the policy advice should be split between Housing New Zealand Corporation and the Department of Building and Housing, or whether it should all be consolidated in the Department of Building and Housing. That is an interesting diversion but it is utterly irrelevant to the tens of thousands of New Zealanders who are on the sharp end of the housing crisis in New Zealand today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI am going to give the House some facts. They are readily available on television and in newspapers; in fact many New Zealanders talk of little else other than the housing crisis, but this Minister of Housing does not seem to know them, because if he did, if he was not so out of touch with the concerns of ordinary New Zealanders, he would surely have come up with something better than this pathetic bill. There are 9,000 people on the waiting list for a Housing New Zealand Corporation home. The waiting list is not really a waiting list, because people can wait and wait and wait for years and nothing ever happens. It is not a list they wait on when they want to get a house; it is a list where they just sit and sit and nothing happens, because the fact is there are simply not enough houses for the people who need them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIn Auckland the average price of a new home is reported this week as hitting $580,000. National\u2019s recession has slowed down the increase in housing prices but still, particularly in Auckland, we have some of the most unaffordable housing in the world. We have a crisis in rental housing. An ordinary three-bedroom house in central Auckland recently advertised for rent attracted 300 applicants. As if this were not bad enough, the Government is doing precious little to help New Zealanders get a roof over their heads. The latest estimates from the Government\u2019s Housing Shareholders\u2019 Advisory Group says there is a shortage of 70,000 dwellings\u201470,000. The Department of Building and Housing has warned of an additional 25,000 shortfall coming down the pipeline over the next decade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EAnd what is the best this Minister can do? What is the best answer he has for this crisis? If there ever was an example of how bereft this Government is of ideas, of a plan to get New Zealand moving, this bill is it. It is a bill to consolidate policy-making in the Department of Building and Housing. John Key has done a remake of the classic Blam Blam Blam song, \u201CThere is No Depression in New Zealand\u201D, and it is \u201CThere is No Housing Crisis in New Zealand\u201D. That is what he said. He probably thinks that people who are forced to live in caravan parks and cars are making a lifestyle choice. This is the Prime Minister, the former State house kid, who intervened personally to block the building of Housing New Zealand Corporation houses in the Hobsonville development in his electorate, because he thought giving low-income Kiwis a sea view was economic vandalism. That says it all about this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThis bill is tinkering around the edges, because tinkering is what this Minister does best. Under his watch 87 properties have been added to the State housing stock in 2 years. Under the fifth Labour Government we averaged nearly 1,000 new houses a year for 9 years, and the best this Minister can do is 87 in 2 years. He has introduced an options and advisory service. Is that designed to help get more New Zealanders into their own homes? No, it is a mechanism for keeping people off the waiting list. The main strategy of this Government seems to be to get people into leased, private rentals. It seems to be oblivious to the fact that simply moving people from the public side of the ledger to the private does absolutely nothing to increase the stock of social or affordable housing. What is the Minister\u2019s big contribution to solving the housing crisis? It is reviewable tenancies, which will create stress and uncertainty for Kiwi families while doing nothing to increase the stock of affordable housing. That is this Minister\u2019s stock-in-trade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIn my community of Te Atat\u016B, people are on the sharp end of the housing affordability crisis. Things are tough in west Auckland; there are about 1,000 people on the waiting list in west Auckland. That is more than any other area in New Zealand outside of South Auckland. More often than not, they have been kicked out by the landlord who is selling the house; they do not have the money for a bond\u2014it is about a thousand bucks to pay the bond for an average-priced rental in West Auckland\u2014and Housing New Zealand Corporation cannot do a damn thing for them. Those people are often desperate; they have run out of options. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EOne poor man we saw recently had custody of his four children, two teenagers and two little ones, and they were surviving on his sickness benefit and living in a one-bedroom unit. Is it any wonder that he was depressed? In another case we saw recently, a husband and wife and five kids were living in Te Atat\u016B North. He lost his job, they could not pay the rent, and they were evicted by the landlord. Housing New Zealand could do nothing for them. The only option was to go and live in the emergency shelter in Airedale Street, in the central business district in Auckland, which is run by the Methodist Mission. The family were classed as priority A by Housing New Zealand\u2014the highest priority\u2014but were told that they had no chance of getting a house. Another couple who came in looking for help recently, and who had a 4-month-old baby, were living in their car. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWhy is this important? It is important because housing unaffordability drives people into poverty. It blights the life chances of a generation. We remember the impact of market rents in State housing in the 1990s. Under the National Government of the day, market rents were introduced for State housing. That was one of the most powerful forces that increased extreme poverty in this country, and we are suffering the social consequences of that policy today. The housing crisis is a nail in the coffin of the Kiwi dream. A generation of New Zealanders have no realistic prospect of ever owning their own home. The high cost of housing denies them the opportunity that their parents and grandparents had to have a safe, quality house that would give them the opportunity to live good, decent lives, build their capital, and improve their prospects. [Interruption] This Government has no\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221da421deac01484a81ddf714b43f1e53\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Interjections between members who do not have the floor are not permitted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc6fe05060824705a33389b0fb6f91af\u0022\u003EPHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I have a memo for the Government: \u201CGet a housing policy.\u201D That is what I say. It must get a housing policy, and I have some ideas to start with. It should use the recession as an opportunity to rebuild our housing stock. Provide work and opportunities for tradespeople and apprentices, and do something to stimulate our dying construction industry. Invest resources in emergency housing, so people do not have to live in the back of a car. Simply build more public housing. Work with local government to ensure that social housing and affordable housing are included in every new, major housing development. Find ways to encourage high-quality, medium-density housing developments in our biggest cities. For God\u2019s sake close the tax loopholes that drive the housing bubble that makes housing unaffordable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWe support this bill going to the select committee but we do so feeling disgusted at this Government\u2019s total lack of interest in doing anything serious about the housing affordability crisis. It refuses to even acknowledge that there is a problem. The best of former New Zealand Governments knew how important housing was. They had a vision for this country\u2019s future. They were nation-builders and they built stuff. They knew from the experience of the Great Depression and the Second World War that having a roof over one\u2019s head was one of the most important factors in living a good life. The fact that Mr Heatley would bring this pathetic bill to the House says it all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u002253b664c2bcd843f4a852a95be194be0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253b664c2bcd843f4a852a95be194be0c\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E I heard plenty of speeches like the one made by the member who has just resumed his seat, Phil Twyford, during the recent Botany by-election. They are all about complaints, but there are never any solutions. They are all about whining but never about ideas. Well, you would struggle to believe that the Opposition is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea6d2c6738ad43439297b516020004e9\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is bringing the Speaker into the debate by using the word \u201Cyou\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d671b500b79a4418af3f97f25e3ef152\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS\u003C/span\u003E: Listeners would struggle to believe that the Opposition is supporting the Housing Corporation Amendment Bill, but it is supporting this bill, I suspect, because it is common-sense legislation. It is common-sense legislation because it directs resources towards core, front-line services and reduces backroom bureaucracy. There is absolutely no point in having policy advice coming from two housing departments under the Crown. It is good that it is coming from the Department of Building and Housing, but Housing New Zealand Corporation needs to focus on its core task. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EHousing New Zealand Corporation is one of largest landowners in this country. It manages $15 billion worth of assets, so it makes sense that this Government wants to ensure that Housing New Zealand Corporation is focused on its core goal. We are looking to remove backroom bureaucracy where it is wasted at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EMy electorate of Botany has some large chunks of Housing New Zealand Corporation homes, primarily in the Flat Bush area. The apartment block that I moved into with my wife, when we became a couple, had a large number of the corporation\u2019s properties within it. After chatting to those people I know that they want to see the Government focus on providing core services. Housing New Zealand Corporation needs to make sure that its focus is on providing core services. I also note that the wider Botany population wants to see the Government run its business as efficiently and effectively as possible. This bill seeks to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThe National-led Government wants to ensure that Housing New Zealand Corporation focuses its efforts on putting the right people in the right houses in the right location. That is what the Minister of Housing talked about in a speech he made last month when he was addressing a significant sector group. It is a key goal of this Government, and National is delivering on its promise. It is delivering on its promise of better managing the corporation\u2019s stock and delivering better outcomes for New Zealanders who need help with housing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThis bill is all about ensuring that there is no double-up. It is about ensuring that a common-sense practice\u2014one department delivering policy advice and another delivering core front-line services\u2014happens. That is why I think the House should support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00224d0b71bba9ef434898c58cc417e3161e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d0b71bba9ef434898c58cc417e3161e\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, e te Kaihaut\u016B o te Whare. Taku mihi ki a koe i runga i ng\u0101 kupu \u0101taahua i puta i a H\u014Dnore Simon Power i t\u0113nei rangi m\u014Du. N\u0101 reira, ng\u0101 mihi ki a koe me t\u014D h\u0101pai i t\u014D t\u0101tou reo M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Assistant Speaker of the House. I acknowledge you on the basis of the pleasant words that the Hon Simon Power expressed today about you. So congratulations on that, and on your efforts to raise the profile of our M\u0101ori language.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EGreetings, Mr Assistant Speaker Robertson. I would like to endorse some of what the Hon Simon Power had to say about you, and I too look forward to seeing the speech that was delivered in 1996 during the time when the actual housing estate owned by the Crown was destroyed by the Government of that time. However, I will not hold you responsible for what you may, or may not, have done during that period of time, as a highly effective Opposition MP, no doubt, in 1996. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI want to say that Labour members do support the referral of the Housing Corporation Amendment Bill to a select committee. It is a relatively insubstantial piece of legislation. It endeavours to pick up on the report by the Housing Shareholders\u2019 Advisory Group. That report pointed out that about $2 billion, at this point in time, is spent by the State in the pursuit of social housing. That figure is expected to rise, within another 6 or 7 years, to close to $4 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWe also know, as a consequence of that report, that over 20,000 houses, or units of residence\u2014they may not be houses\u2014are required to deal with the geometric pressures of growth in T\u0101maki-makau-rau, Auckland. Unfortunately, many of the people needing that level of assistance come from our tangata whenua M\u0101ori community, and they will not all receive the handsome $2 million gift that was given to a narrow caste of favoured individuals from one hap\u016B, who presumably are aspiring candidates for the M\u0101ori Party. But there will be more on that at another stage. The broad membership of the M\u0101ori community and the Pacific Island community does require quality access to social housing, and it is disappointing that this bill does not deal with the challenges that the housing shareholder body put before Minister Heatley. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENow, we may not necessarily agree that private capital should be involved in the provision of social housing, but let us put the proposal on the table. It is a legitimate and positive public policy point to debate. I tell the Minister not to hide behind stories about the last 4 or 5 years. That man over there is the Minister of Housing now, and I point out to him, in case he has not noticed, that we are no longer in control of the Treasury benches. We will do a far better job after 26 November, but unfortunately for the tenants and people in \u201CStrugglers\u2019 Gully\u201D, who desire better housing outcomes, they are stuck with that crowd there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIf the Government wants to use private capital and come up with a model of a public-private partnership, or whatever model it has in mind, let that idea be put on the table so it can be a point of grand debate. There is no innovative solution being brought forward by the Minister of Housing, and if the Government is going to release Crown land, if it is going to make more of the current housing stock available to third parties, to third-sector providers, then it should crystallise a proposal, put it before the public, bring it to the House, and then we can debate something of merit and substance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENo one is incredibly hot and bothered about where the departmental advisory capacity rests\u2014whether it rests in Housing New Zealand Corporation or in the Department of Building and Housing. What we are really bothered by is that over 20,000 units of residence are needed every year to deal with internal migration and migration from overseas into our largest city, a city that comprises one-third of the country\u2019s GDP, a city that has one-third of the country\u2019s population, and a city whose housing conditions are approaching those of a Third World country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIt is sad that too many members on that side of the House are prepared to hide these issues under ideology. The reality is that we will have ongoing social problems amongst our youth, predominantly brown in character. We will see those young people going in the wrong direction, with eventually too many of them going into incarceration. The Minister of Housing should put the money into housing now, and if he needs to use private money as well, then he should bring the proposal forward. He should not be fearful to pursue what he thinks are his best instincts. If the Minister finds that what he learns in Australia ought to put forward, then he should do so, or have we harassed this Minister so much that he has lost the ability to bring even a rather harmless proposal forward? No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThere is a lack of viable alternatives to State housing at the moment. We think that there is a great deal of worth in enabling those in the third sector to generate solutions. But in order for that to happen, the Crown has to stand behind them. The Crown has to stand beside them so that they can amass the capital and deliver those services. It may come to pass that taking a swath of the houses currently owned by the Crown and entrusting them to entities such as the Salvation Army, M\u0101ori housing providers, Women\u2019s Refuge housing providers, or other options are worthy of us debating them, possibly embracing them, or dismissing them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThat is the stuff we want to see in this policy and political debate, not these phantoms and shadows\u2014whether that be the people from the Housing New Zealand Corporation, constantly wandering around the country and telling needy families that they have no options, or the Department of Building and Housing, with Katrina Bach and others, offering, perhaps, a better job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWhat can be done to innovate the delivery of housing services? What exactly is the Minister of Housing offering to do? Unfortunately, all that we are being told will happen is that more bureaucrats will sit their butts in chairs in another part of the Government. But where is the evidence that this Minister is prepared to bring forward alternatives to deal with the situation of poor equity and deal with the situation of an absence of innovation? There are houses located in the wrong location. There are people who are unwilling to move out into the provinces\u2014perhaps, for example, Dunedin\u2014where there are surplus houses. We want to see an innovative, Minister-led solution for Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThis Government set up the super-city that it wanted. It has the structure. It has the unified group of representatives. It did not get the mayor that it wanted. It did not get a majority of the councillors who might have ideologically suited it, but it got the structure and it got the institution. It is crying out for assistance and leadership from this Minister. I will not be as unkind as a colleague was earlier and describe the Minister as something of a boy scout. I think that he is genuinely interested in improving the provision of houses\u2014I do believe that about him. [Interruption] No, no, I do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe only things he has failed on are how he can afford it; where the houses would be; and how he would deliver in it an innovative fashion, with the support of the third sector or with the support of the private sector. As a consequence of that failure he has lost the confidence of the Minister of Finance and he has lost the confidence of the actual force that runs the Government when John Key is riding around in the limousine: Steven Joyce. No, he has lost the confidence of those particular senior members. Poor people have to bumble along while this Minister is hemmed in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe Minister should use his creative energies. He should not serve us up the trite, narrow, irrelevant little changes we see in this bill, although they are probably a part of providing a smoother basis, a primrose road, for the Housing New Zealand Corporation to be sold. We look forward to a more substantial contribution from this Minister, although we fear that our desires are inversely related to his capacity. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u002243920f637d7848e1880f91446f0c7404\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243920f637d7848e1880f91446f0c7404\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Is it not great to listen to a member from a Labour Party with huge aspirations for its constituency? Those Labour members have told us that, in Government, National is not innovative, is not creative, and has no aspirations. They have told us that all National wants to do is kick people out of their homes. All the Labour Party, on the other side of the House, wants to do is keep them encumbered. To whom? To the Labour Party. Why? Because those members want a constituency. They do not want people living in their own homes. They do not want to elevate people to a level where they can live under their own roof and own a piece of real estate for themselves. No, those members want to keep them sucking on the teat of the State. That is exactly where those members are coming from. That is exactly what Mr Twyford was saying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EWe know that that is the way those members are. When the previous National was in Government before the previous Labour Government\u2014before we had to endure 9 long years of that Labour Government\u2014it had an innovative policy to use derelict Housing Corporation homes, 99 of which were in the electorate of Whanganui. What did that National Government do with them? The homes were derelict and it could not get people to live in them. The houses were being set on fire and the windows were constantly being broken. That Government sold those derelict homes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EWhat did the buyers of those derelict homes do? The Government sold them to people who would never have been able to get into their own homes for themselves. It sold them to people who were on benefits and people who had no equity. It took a 1 percent mortgage on them to start with, and it rented the house back to those people. After 5 years those people were able to gain equity from those homes and, under a pre-arranged agreement with the National Bank, they were able to get a mortgage. What happened to the 99 homes that were sold to people who never would have been able to achieve homeownership under any particular Government? The 99 people who bought those homes either own those homes today or have onsold them and are now living in better homes, which\u2014what do you know\u2014they also own for themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe party on that side of the House has no aspiration for people living in State homes. Those members want to keep those people in State homes, but the Housing Corporation Amendment Bill inspires those people to go on and move to the next level of accommodation and homeownership. It inspires them to own their home and to do what is best for them in their situation and for their families. That is why this Government is enjoying an unprecedented, enduring level of success and confidence. The people out there, including the constituents of the party opposite, believe that we are the best party to be in Government. We have an aspiration for them, for their homes, and for their families into the future. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022 data-id=\u0022baf509fa14c44bd2b763548706e10bfe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022baf509fa14c44bd2b763548706e10bfe\u0022\u003EHon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Social Services Committee consider the Housing Corporation Amendment Bill, that the committee report finally to the House on or before 6 June 2011, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), and during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 187, 189(a), and 190(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002284fec884c0d8413aa8644066a7243389\u0022\u003EEducation Amendment Bill (No 4)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022072c778fcbd747a0bf9a8d4e4d4c16c9\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u00224c5ff6607b324628b100dad35d936c93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c5ff6607b324628b100dad35d936c93\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Tertiary Education):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Education Amendment Bill (No 4) be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be considered by the Education and Science Committee, that the committee present its final report on or before 29 July 2011, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting except during oral questions, during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 187, 189(a), and 190(1)(b) and (c). The purpose of this motion to bring forward the report back of the bill is to ensure its enactment by 1 September 2011. That will enable the new Crown agent for international education to begin operating from 1 September 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe Government is committed to achieving ongoing improvements in the performance of the tertiary education system. In the Tertiary Education Strategy 2010-15 we have signalled our priorities for the sector, which include enhancing quality assurance, providing incentives for providers to respond better to students, and building international linkages. The bill introduces a series of measures that will assist with achieving those priorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe first objective of the bill is to strengthen the regulation of the tertiary education system by improving and modernising the New Zealand Qualifications Authority\u2019s legal arrangements. Parts 18 and 20 of the Education Act 1989 cover most of the functions of the New Zealand Qualifications Authority. They have not been significantly amended since 1990. The bill revises the authority\u2019s existing functions and powers. That includes creating a rules regime to replace the authority\u2019s current powers to issue policies and criteria, and removing the authority\u2019s power to delegate its quality assurance functions. The bill also establishes in law the New Zealand qualifications framework. The bill creates a stronger regulatory and enforcement regime for the authority\u2014in particular, in relation to managing private training establishments. This includes raising the threshold for private training establishment registration, giving the authority powers of entry to premises in cases of non-compliance, and introducing new targeted offences. Good providers will benefit from the raising of overall standards in the private training establishment sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe second objective of the bill is to encourage the expansion of international education and to safeguard the quality and reputation of the New Zealand education system. This includes the establishment of a new Crown agent called Education New Zealand to lead New Zealand\u2019s drive to expand international education. The new agent will combine the functions and funding of three separate entities currently, enabling it to more effectively and efficiently manage the Crown\u2019s investment in New Zealand\u2019s international education promotion and offshore activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe third objective of the bill is to increase transparency and accountability in the tertiary education system\u2014in particular, to students. This is achieved in two areas. Firstly, new measures are introduced regarding the setting of compulsory fees for the provision of student services. Under the bill, the responsible Minister will be able to issue directions on compulsory student service fees, including the categories of student services to be provided on a compulsory basis, how the fees are held and reported on, and arrangements for joint decision-making or consultation between a provider and its students. If a tertiary education provider does not comply with a direction, the Minister may issue a further direction specifying to a provider the maximum limit on the amount that can be charged for the services. Secondly, the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s ability to administer student loans and allowances will be strengthened. The bill clarifies the ministry\u2019s powers to request information from tertiary education providers, and creates a new offence aimed at deterring any providers from knowingly providing false or misleading information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe bill also contains a number of miscellaneous amendments. Minor, technical amendments are made to the international education sections of the Education Act 1989. They include the rationalising of definitions and the streamlining of administrative processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EIn closing, the bill will strengthen our quality assurance system in the tertiary sector, facilitate the expansion of the international education sector, and improve accountability and transparency for students and providers. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022d576ff43e25c406c8fd2f5071b18321f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d576ff43e25c406c8fd2f5071b18321f\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E I congratulate you, Mr Assistant Speaker Ross Robertson, on your post. It is a pleasure to have you sitting in the Chair today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EI will start by saying that Labour supports the Education Amendment Bill (No 4) going to the Education and Science Committee. The bill contains some good provisions that are designed to tighten up the tertiary education area. For that reason, it is important that the select committee hears from submitters on those provisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EAs the Minister for Tertiary Education just said, the bill seeks to strengthen three areas. The first area is strengthening the regulation of the tertiary education system by improving and modernising the legal requirements of the New Zealand Qualifications Authority. Most people would say that although the changes are not completely overdue, they are positive and are working in a positive direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThe second area is facilitating the expansion of the international education system and safeguarding the quality and reputation of New Zealand\u2019s education system. International education is an extraordinarily important industry for New Zealand now. It is a $2 billion industry. It has grown incredibly rapidly but is also quite fragile. Looking across the Tasman at Australia, we saw what an assault on an Indian student in Australia did to the Australian international education system. The publicity around that event caused many students from India who were wanting to study in Australia to consider going elsewhere. I think New Zealand picked up a number of students as a result. So the international education system is extremely fragile. I think that by strengthening it in this regard\u2014and I believe that this is overdue\u2014we will be able to maintain those standards and to continue to attract not just any student but the top students into New Zealand because of the system we have and what we can provide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003ELastly, the bill looks to increase transparency and accountability in the tertiary education system. Once again, I think that is an important area. In the past couple of years universities in particular have started to increase the levies on students. In 2010-11 many universities\u2019 levies have gone up about 100 percent. Rather than being $200, they are nearly $400. In other tertiary providers the increase has not been as great, but nevertheless has been fairly significant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EAlthough on the one hand I applaud the Minister\u2019s desire to change the situation and to put a cap on the levies, we need to look a little more deeply at why the levies are being imposed in the first place. The real reason is that funding for universities is being capped. As a result of that, last year 9,000 potential students were not able to gain entry into our tertiary institutions. As a result, universities have decided they need to levy students for really basic stuff like buildings, libraries, and extra student places. They are increasing their fees so that that stuff can take place. In addressing a number of students who were protesting about this issue, Professor Rod Carr, the Vice-Chancellor of Canterbury University, said that the students are getting \u201Ca crap deal\u201D from the Government, because it is freezing all the other funding to universities, which has meant that the universities have had to impose these levies. The levies are not imposed because the universities feel they can gain more money\u2014no, not at all\u2014the universities are imposing the levies because they cannot afford to run the university to the right and proper standard that might attract the international students I was just talking about. The universities simply do not have sufficient funding. They are levying students to pay for the most basic of things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EIt gets worse. It gets much worse, because at the same time that the bill is coming in and the Minister is making a big deal about capping levies, regulating the levies that the universities are charging, and making them more transparent so that the student body can have a greater say in the way that the levies are imposed\u2014again, I applaud that initiative\u2014we have the voluntary student membership bill coming through. That bill will gut the very representation that the Minister wants to consider the levies. It will gut that advocacy and that representation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThe students associations in New Zealand will have much less representation, much less health-care, and much less in the way of sports, cultural events, and advocacy. They will have much less of a whole range of support structures that students have come to rely on and that I and others who have gone through university paid for in the past. Students are not going to have them any more. It is very simple. We know that for a fact. It is not fiction. This bill is not about anything other than a piece of ideology looking around for a problem and saying that somehow we will provide more choice in the system. Students actually have the choice now to opt out of the students association\u2014they have the choice now. What we know for a fact\u2014what we know from Australia\u2014is that as soon as we take away the nature of students associations as they are today, the money that goes into them collapses. As a result, we end up having less money, fewer services, and less voluntary support for the services the associations provide. We end up with a poorer university environment as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EWhat happens then? Well, strangely enough, the universities take over the funding of some of those core activities that the students associations up till now have been providing. While the Minister is laudably bringing in this legislation to cap, restrict, regulate, and come down on those universities that are levying students, what will actually happen is that, with the voluntary student membership bill coming in, the fees that universities are charging will have to rise. If they do not rise, the core services that the students rely on will disappear. On the one hand this bill is laudable, but on the other hand it completely ignores the real problem facing universities today, which is a lack of funding, and the fact that the Government is about to gut the students associations and the services they provide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EWhile we are on the subject of the gutting of services, the pulling of services, let us turn to another area of tertiary education, which is adult education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216aea7c987bf4e18a352c93ad6a0508a\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dc8a1447e374b84b34e3298e2be4f44\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: It has gone. Let me tell members what has happened to adult education over the last few months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240524a997eeb4c6694b1b69fcf9bd675\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I was just wondering about Kelvin Davis, who is sitting opposite me with his computer out in front of him like that. I was wondering whether it was appropriate to have, basically, a broadcast from Toshiba in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d7711adffd540199e1733a40cc35081\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member will be seated. It is perfectly legitimate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223aaccb42c9244a28acc098f5f822b989\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: Adult education, which has been gutted in this country, was an institution that New Zealanders relied on. I relied on it. Many people in this House, I bet, went to night school as part of their educational experience. The number of schools that are offering night school education has gone from 212 down to 24. Well done! A whole bunch of people out there who wanted to enter the education system for the second time because they had missed out somehow the first time round now do not have the opportunity. On average, 200,000 people a year used to enjoy adult education; now the number is a fraction of that\u2014a fraction. Here is the kicker: for 300 metres of Mr Joyce\u2019s \u201CHoliday Highway\u201D we could have had adult education every year; for 300 metres of the \u201CHoliday Highway\u201D, which has a cost-benefit analysis of less than a dollar, we could have actually funded adult education. It is about priorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022 data-id=\u00226073e80fff2e48dea30e1a25c4ed94ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226073e80fff2e48dea30e1a25c4ed94ea\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I take just a couple of seconds, Mr Assistant Speaker Robertson, to say how pleased I am that you have resumed your rightful place as an Assistant Speaker in this House\u2014your rightful place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EI listened with great care to the Labour Party\u2019s new spokesperson on tertiary education, David Shearer. It probably would have been better if that member had made his opening statement supporting the Education Amendment Bill (No 4) and then sat down. After his first sentence I thought that maybe those guys over there were at last getting the idea that this Government knows what it is doing. But the longer he talked, the less relevant he became to this bill and to this debate. It just brought home to the House again the yawning gap between the Government and the major Opposition party\u2014the gap that is seeing the Labour Party slowly consigned to the rubbish bin of history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EIt became apparent that the Labour Party has no interest at all in developing a higher performing tertiary education sector. It has no interest at all, unlike the Government, in ensuring better value for every dollar that the Government spends. Remember that better value means a better education for the students who are paying part of the cost of being in a tertiary education system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EI invite the next Labour speaker\u2014and looking across the floor it is rather difficult to imagine who that might be\u2014whoever it is, to get on their feet and tell this House that the Labour Party supports a high performing tertiary education system, and supports the policy to be introduced by this Government for 2012 that will begin to link Government funding to the performance of the institution. No other measure is guaranteed to ensure a better education for the students in this country than requiring performance from the institutions they attend. That is partially what this bill is all about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EI invite that speaker, Carmel Sepuloni\u2014I see she is desperate to get on her feet, though she will have to wait a minute or so longer\u2014to also tell this House that Labour supports the Government\u2019s policy to increase the number of university places for young New Zealanders. While she is doing that, she may like to take the opportunity to apologise to young New Zealanders for Labour\u2019s ineptness in administering the tertiary education system during those long, dark 9 years when Labour had the opportunity to influence things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EThis is good legislation, it is sound legislation, and it will go a long way to meeting what should be the first requirement of every student in a tertiary education organisation: the assurance that they are in a quality organisation, an organisation that has been judged on its academic performance, and an organisation that puts the quality of teaching first. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003EI welcome the comments from the next Labour speaker, and I hope that that person addresses the issues that I have raised. I commend the bill to the House, and I look forward to its eventual passage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3febe26b01a46ba9a348645ff8b1b41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3febe26b01a46ba9a348645ff8b1b41\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will start by saying that I have spent some time working in the tertiary sector. I spent about 5\u00BD years working at the University of Auckland and 2 years working at a private training establishment. I trained as a primary school teacher, and I do have an appreciation of good education policy and can differentiate between the two. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ELabour supports the Education Amendment Bill (No 4). We agree that it makes some necessary changes to the tertiary education sector. Mr Peachey, unlike as usual, is not entirely wrong. However, we have some reservations. Before I get into those reservations, as I have worked in the tertiary education sector I want to thank the previous Labour Government for the funding and the resourcing it put into the tertiary sector and for the difference that it made to communities, like the M\u0101ori and Pacific communities, in terms of participation in, and completion of, higher-level tertiary qualifications. I thank the Labour Government for its understanding of the fact that having a highly skilled population was all part of a successful economy. I thank the Labour Government for being in touch with communities, in terms of the value that Labour placed on tertiary education and ensuring that communities had access to quality tertiary education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EFrom there, I want to talk a little about what this bill does well\u2014the good things in the bill. Labour supports the creation of a new Crown agency to cover export education. We believe that it is a vital part of our economy and that it needs to be properly managed and fostered. We perceive the private training industry as an important part of the tertiary sector, and we want to protect their reputation and the subsequent reputation of the wider tertiary sector. In saying that, cases of qualification selling and falsifying results do harm to both. It harms students and it harms the sector. Therefore, the introduction of stricter rules around the registration of private training establishments is welcomed by Labour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ETonight, in this House, the public and the other members will hear a great deal about Labour\u2019s view that the bill\u2019s ability to regulate student levies will be undermined by the voluntary students association membership legislation, which will subsequently undermine the student voice. This House has been told by my colleague David Shearer that huge levy rises last year were the result of the National Government\u2019s squeeze on tertiary funding, which is forcing institutions to lay off staff or pass the buck to students. We hope that the National Government and the general public have listened to the concerns that David Shearer raised and that my colleagues will also raise when they get to their feet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI want to discuss the creation of a new Crown agency to cover export education. As I said, it is a vital part of our economy and we support the creation of a new Crown agency to cover export education. However, although on the one hand the National Government is working towards increasing the overseas market for our tertiary education sector, on the other hand the Minister for Tertiary Education is saying publicly that we must dampen down the demand for tertiary education by New Zealanders or by our domestic market. I find it strange that the National Government would be all about encouraging international students to participate in our tertiary sector, when it cannot even do the same for students in New Zealand. I think the general public would be concerned that the National Government wants to open up tertiary education to the international market, but not to the domestic market. We are wondering whether the National Government\u2019s grand plan is that we run a tertiary education system that largely caters for overseas interests, rather than our own. It kind of sits alongside that whole \u201Csell off State assets\u201D subject as well. Tertiary education in New Zealand should be about New Zealanders and should be about, first and foremost, making sure that people in New Zealand have access to high-level, high-quality tertiary education, but the Government wants to sell it off overseas. It is exactly the same as what is happening with our State assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWhen we hear the Minister for Tertiary Education say that we must dampen down the demand for tertiary education in New Zealand, we need to keep in mind that youth joblessness is remaining extremely high. The latest OECD figures show that one in every five young Kiwis is now out of work. When we look at the statistics for M\u0101ori and Pacific Islanders, since that Government came into office an unacceptably high number of M\u0101ori and Pacific students are not only not in employment but also not engaged in any education. Yet we have a Minister for Tertiary Education who would say publicly that we need to dampen down the demand for tertiary education in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe have seen the National Government do things, like slash funding to Adult and Community Education and night schools by a massive 80 percent, that led to a trebling in fees and hundreds of courses being shut down. We should keep in mind that for many people Adult and Community Education is often their first step back into the education system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ESteven Joyce has done little to increase the number of places in universities and polytechs. By refusing to adequately lift the cap on numbers, thousands of students are being turned away from study each year. Last year Steven Joyce cut $55 million from industry training funding, which could have provided places for an extra 55,000 trainees who would have been able to fill the looming skills shortage. Not only have the decisions made by the Minister for Tertiary Education made us question how valuable the National Government thinks tertiary education is for the everyday Kiwi in New Zealand, but we have even seen changes in our social development policy that sit alongside that theory in respect of an under-appreciation of the importance of high-level tertiary education for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe have seen cuts in the training incentive allowance that take away the opportunity for sole parents to have access to tertiary education, which would not only benefit them but also their children. We have seen welfare reforms whereby, from memory, sole parents would be encouraged to go back and study up to level 3, but not to level 4 and beyond because for some reason or another that would not be of any benefit to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIt is time that the Government looked at the solutions used in Australia\u2014for instance, investing heavily in skills training and tertiary education\u2014to help young people into long-term work. Instead, this Government does nothing but deliver more cuts to the very programmes we need. Yet, as I said, with the expansion of international education and to safeguard the quality and reputation of the New Zealand education system, Labour supports the promotion of our quality education to the international student market, but we do not like it being done at the expense of ensuring that our domestic student market has access to quality tertiary education and promoting access to quality tertiary education to that market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIf this Government does not get its act together in respect of providing those opportunities, we will see a very abysmal future for New Zealand down the track. If our young people do not have access to quality tertiary education, then what hope do we have of a strong economy in this country in the future? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1adb710ccb1461a93c1591abcf2de22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1adb710ccb1461a93c1591abcf2de22\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Tertiary education is vital to our future prosperity and to building a smart economy. I am glad to take a call tonight on the Education Amendment Bill (No 4), which amends the Education Act 1989. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI will make a quick comment on the debate so far. I think David Shearer deserves an A for his analysis of the situation. Minister Joyce has a number of portfolios, and when it comes to it he seems to have his keys on the ministerial printing press. He has $43 million to bail out his mates in MediaWorks, he has billions of dollars to throw at reducing competition and increasing the price when it comes to ultra-fast broadband, and he has $10.7 billion to spend on motorways when we are borrowing $300 million a week. He needs to pour some of that money into our vital tertiary education sector. Mr Peachey is a well-noted educationalist, but if I were to grade his speech I would say: \u201CNeeds to do more work; needs to do his homework.\u201D It is a big bill and there are lots of parts he could have spoken on. Maybe he would get an A for his creative writing. I liked the allusion to 9 long years of Labour. There was some good creative writing there. I think if Ms Sepuloni was giving a history speech, she would maybe get a C. I do not know whether she was a student under those 9 long years of a Labour Government, but I was. I saw increasing fees, increasing student loan burdens across the whole country, and interest on student loans for 6 years before it was rightfully taken off. So I would maybe give her a C for historical accuracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Green Party will be opposing this bill tonight on its first reading. We have a mixed view on the bill, which is a grab bag of things. There are some good parts, some mixed parts, and some bad parts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EFirst, I will talk about the good parts of the bill. The Green Party supports strengthening the regulation of private training establishments. Many private training establishments do fantastic work. However, the whole industry can be affected by cowboys in the market. We support establishing new rules for their registration and operation, and handing quality assurance back to the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, but we have some grave concerns about the authority implementing the new New Zealand qualifications framework and listing approved qualifications, and about its enhanced enforcement powers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ESecondly, the bill establishes a new Crown agent, Education New Zealand, to replace the functions of the three organisations currently managing and promoting international education as a New Zealand export earner. We are talking about New Zealand Trade and Enterprise, the Ministry of Education, and the Education New Zealand Trust. Streamlining seems to be an ideological mantra often repeated by the National Government without much actual evidence presented. We look forward to seeing the benefits outlined in the select committee of merging the three operations into a single agency operating under a board and being accountable to the Minister. We take this opportunity to stress that when discussing international education a strong focus on student welfare and pastoral care is vital. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThirdly, we think it is common sense to make it easier for the Ministry of Social Development to administer student allowances by giving it the power to request enrolment information from tertiary providers. The ministry already has these powers in relation to student loans, and the fact that it does not have them for student allowances seems to be a historical oversight. The bill also creates a new offence if a tertiary provider knowingly provides false or misleading information to the Ministry of Social Development regarding the administration of loans and allowances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThen there is the bad. The other two objectives of the bill are more problematic. Regarding student services fees, it is true that they have increased dramatically in recent years, but it has not happened for no reason. Institutions use them to fund vital services to get around the fee maxima, which applies only to tuition fees. In short, facing inadequate funding and further budget cuts from the Minister for Tertiary Education, it is not unrealistic that new sources of income would be identified so that we can keep providing a world-class education service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn the lead-up to May\u2019s Budget, I ask how decisions that are being made currently or are about to be made will impact on our universities and polytechs. If it is to be a zero Budget, as has been promoted, I ask whether we will see yet another cut to our tertiary education budget. As of last year we already spend $3,000 less per student than the OECD average, and we are in the bottom quarter for expenditure on tertiary education as a percentage of our gross domestic product. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EOn the face of it, the Green Party supports moves to keep student fees down, and we believe that core education services should be paid for via adequate tuition subsidies and fees, not via these alternative sources. The Minister seems intent on addressing the symptom but not the cause, which is the fact that he will not fund tertiary education properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe welcome increased student involvement and increased transparency; the irony, of course, is that no students will get a chance to vote on how the student levy is raised or spent, as they currently do through their students association fees. The risk is that the Minister will decide to limit the ability of students associations to make up fee shortfalls through the levy, leading to a situation where either student services or core services will be cut. Facing a recessionary environment and a stagnant economy dependent on international commodity prices, we need to follow the lead of Australia, which is investing an extra $5.7 billion over the next 5 years to achieve its goal of 40 percent of Australians having degrees. We need to invest more in the tertiary education sector, not play student services off against core services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe bill gives wide-ranging and extensive powers to the Minister to dictate the terms on which institutions can raise and charge service fees, including which services the fees are used for, and potentially to set dollar amounts. As with the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority, power is being concentrated more centrally in ministerial hands. It is as if a memo has been circulated around the National Party trying to secure as much power as it can in executive hands over the legislature or the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn a voluntary student membership environment, institutions will have to pick up the tab for many services currently provided by students associations, and there is the risk that this bill could constrain their ability to do so if the Minister sets strict rules. Whole services could fall through the gaps if the Minister decides to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI do not think it is good lawmaking to leave this important question up to the inclination of a particular Minister. The Minister needs to identify what categories of services will be allowed now, because it seems unlikely that we could vote for them in further readings, based on his deplorable track record in the portfolio. If a clearer framework and clarity is the policy objective of the Minister, he should include that information in the legislation; he should not leave it up to a future Minister\u2019s whim. Likewise, the Minister should spell out exactly how students\u2019 views will be represented effectively in the legislation. With a different Minister, change like this could be positive, but the fact that it places so much power in the hands of whoever is in power is good reason to oppose the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ELastly, the changes regarding the New Zealand Qualifications Authority and the regulation of private training establishments are extensive. The changes implement recommendations by the targeted review of qualifications undertaken from 2009 to 2010, which was focused on the proliferation of low-quality courses. The bill establishes a new New Zealand qualifications framework that lists the approved qualifications. We look forward to finding out more in the select committee as to what is likely to make it on to the list of approved qualifications, because in an increasingly complex world, we need to provide students with all the opportunities their creativity, their entrepreneurial skills, and their social potential demand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ESome elements are concerning\u2014for example, the fact that the New Zealand Qualifications Authority is given quite Draconian powers under this legislation for enforcement. The authority can enter premises, access or copy information, and question staff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, the Green Party supports some of this bill, but other parts, like those provisions relating to the New Zealand Qualifications Authority and the student levy powers, are concerning. We may change our vote down the line, but only if the bill actually sees better tertiary education outcomes. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5cecd18fbfd4ad5836a504dec40f15d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5cecd18fbfd4ad5836a504dec40f15d\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to speak in the first reading debate on the Education Amendment Bill (No 4). I will start with some thoughts about what the tertiary education strategy says. The strategy calls for an ongoing improvement in the educational and financial performance of tertiary education providers. It also says that during tight fiscal times tertiary education organisations need to improve their efficiency and performance. That is probably a very appropriate theme, because when we compare the previous administration with the Government of today, we see in particular in respect of the health portfolio that billions of dollars were thrown at health with no noticeable improvement in outcomes. It was exactly the same case in regard to tertiary education. Enormous amounts of money were thrown at tertiary education with no real noticeable improvements in outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EThis bill is very appropriate at this time, because it is the first occasion that we are making amendments in respect of the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, which was set up in 1990. We are talking about an authority that was set up 21 years ago. Although it was cutting edge at that time, it needs modification. When we look at that authority, we see that it had over 6,000 qualifications, and on that basis it was essential that we went through those qualifications in order to rationalise them. The Minister for Tertiary Education has begun that job, and an outcome of it all will be a much improved, more appropriate, in tune New Zealand Qualifications Authority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EThe Minister talked about reporting this bill back to the House on or by 29 July, so that gives us only 3 months. The select committee will need to be very adept at hearing the submissions and working collegially on the Minister\u2019s vision for tertiary education. Many speakers tonight have talked about tertiary education, and I am sure they were not intending to talk about tertiary education in a context of its own. Education definitely needs to be a continuum, and when we hear about and lament the people who find themselves unemployed at the moment, it really does drive home how important it is that education has that continuum and that our children learn to read and write and become independent learners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EOne of the things that is very noticeable is the fact that unless secondary school students get up to level 2 of the National Certificate of Educational Achievement they will more than likely fail when it comes to doing a national qualification at level 4 independently. There is a lot of very, very positive stuff in this bill. It has been a long time coming. A lot of thought has been put into it, and I certainly see some good outcomes coming from this work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EI want to pick up on a comment that was made about the industry training organisations and $55 million being stripped out of them. I tell members that $55 million was put into universities to create more opportunities at a higher level. We were aware that some of our industry training organisations had up to $20 million in surpluses, so it is about using the taxpayer dollar more effectively. I understand why Labour will try to pick holes in things; it was in Government for 9 years and did nothing. I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u0022e12b2759a67046b2a5ddfdea4972ae8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e12b2759a67046b2a5ddfdea4972ae8b\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to rise and speak in the first reading debate on the Education Amendment Bill (No 4). I was very excited when I saw this bill tabled in Parliament just last week, because I thought that maybe the Government was about to do something about the shambles it had created in education. Maybe, I thought, this was the time when it would introduce legislation to reverse the funding cuts it meted out to the early childhood education sector at the last Budget in May 2010. I thought that maybe that was what the Government was amending in the Education Act 1989, but I was disappointed to find that that was not the case. Perhaps it was the Government\u2019s opportunity to realise that it had made an absolute shambles of the national standards in the primary school sector. Maybe the amendment to the Act would address that critical issue in the country, but I was disappointed on that front as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EPerhaps the Minister had realised that it was not OK to try to resolve the very serious bullying issues that are going on in our schools at the moment simply by sending a letter to schools. Perhaps the Minister had been, all along, working on a legislative approach to that very big problem that our secondary schools, in particular, are facing at the moment, but that is not to be addressed either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI wondered whether in fact this bill might retrospectively show a realisation on the Government benches that cutting funding for adult and community education was a big mistake as well, but the bill did not recognise that issue. I thought, in a last-ditch attempt, that maybe\u2014just maybe\u2014this Government had realised that recessionary times were the very best time to allow New Zealanders wanting to get that step-up in their lives to access a tertiary education if they had not had the opportunity to do that at any other time, and that the Government could do that by lifting the cap on tertiary institutions and investing in skills development for this country\u2019s future, but I was to be disappointed on that front as well. This is very much a lost opportunity. The Education Amendment Bill (No 4) could have addressed the significant issues at the heart of this country\u2019s problems as we go forward into the future. That is what education is all about. It is the best opportunity for this country to build its future, and, sadly, this bill does not address any of those issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EBut what more can we expect from a Government whose goal, it seems, is to lower wages in this country\u2014as a strategy. Bill English is now telling this country that he is deliberate about having wages 30 percent lower in New Zealand than they are in Australia. He thinks that having lower wages will give us a competitive advantage. Well, that is not the vision on this side of the House; I can inform listeners to this debate of that very fact. That is why I was worried but not surprised to see that the Government had once again failed to take an opportunity by introducing an education amendment bill that would do something to make a difference in terms of lifting living standards in this country, and lifting people\u2019s opportunities to get the very best education. The Government has missed the opportunity in this bill to address those very substantial issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EHowever, on the issues that are in front of us in this amendment bill, I will say that Labour is prepared to support the bill to select committee, so that we can hear how the public responds to it. I am pleased to say that we will get to hear from the public this time. We never ever heard from the public on national standards, and look at the shambles that has turned out to be. Not one parent, teacher, student, or board of trustees member got to come to this Parliament and say what they thought about the concept, principle, or legislation on national standards. They never got that opportunity, and therefore we have the shambles that is in front of us now. National standards are a complete and utter shambles, and it started from that process. Just this weekend 750 principals voted no confidence in the Government\u2019s education policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e225bdafc064e108322763d476d7191\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: They did not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286f69e0f1a5e4f05a0f45c00a98af8c4\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yes they did, I say to Mrs Goodhew. They absolutely did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3774015afce4c77b04d9f95bb2402da\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: I read the press release. That\u2019s not what it said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d1c65b9798d4619b642efad32f40b09\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: They voted no confidence in the education policy of the Government, and they voted no confidence in the leadership given by the Minister over the introduction of national standards. If the Government has not heard that, and if it is in denial about that, it does not listen and it is completely out of touch with what is happening in the education sector. The Government does not want to hear from the leaders of the school communities, the principals up and down the country\u2014750 of them. It is unprecedented. For the first time ever, the Principals Federation voted no confidence in the Government\u2019s education policy. I think it is a great shame that Government members opposite are shaking their heads because they have not heard it or they do not care. That is how out of touch they are with the current issues facing the education sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThis bill, however, introduces some positive changes. They are not the changes that we really need to see made to our education system, none the less there is a little bit of tinkering around the edges, which is what this Government tends to do. We would like to hear the views of the sector on those changes. We support the creation of a new Crown agency to cover export education, because that is a vital part of our economy, and it needs to be properly managed and fostered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EWe approve of the introduction of stricter rules on the registration of private training establishments. That is also welcome to Labour, but we are keen to hear what the sector has to say on that. I say \u201Cthe sector\u201D, and my definition of the sector includes those who work in the industry and those who use it, so we want to hear from the students, the families of the students, and the training providers. The private training industry is an important part of the tertiary sector, and cases of qualification-selling and falsifying results do harm to that sector, to students, and to New Zealand\u2019s reputation, so we look forward to supporting the aspects of this bill that will help to resolve that problem and tidy it up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EHere is the real doozy to do with this bill: student levies. This Government now wants to pretend that it wants to sort out the huge increase in student levies that has happened under its watch in tertiary institutions up and down the country. Here is the real joke: the right hand does not know what the right foot is doing. Another bill that came from the ACT Party but was supported by the Government is making institutions pick up more and more student services by getting rid of the student unions that provide those services now. The Government wants those student unions to go down the tubes. The student support services the unions provide will go with them, and the institutions will be left to pick up that problem, but this bill comes in to say the institutions should not even think about increasing levies on students as a result. We know that institutions will not get any increased funding from the Government, so what are they to do? Student services will decrease, and students will be the poorer for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u00226aaa2a66036e4f9dbf61b24b7381632e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226aaa2a66036e4f9dbf61b24b7381632e\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E The Education Amendment Bill (No 4) gives this Government a very important opportunity to continue to work towards a more accountable, higher-performing tertiary education sector. That is consistent with what this Government is hoping to achieve right across the State sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EWe are absolutely focused on getting better value for every dollar\u2014not our dollars but the dollars of every taxpayer in New Zealand\u2014and we take that very seriously, unlike the previous Government, which squandered that money as if it was coming off a tree or being printed by somebody, not coming out of the real, live pockets of New Zealand taxpayers. We will get better value for every dollar spent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EIt is time to put a little bit of truth and a little bit of perspective into the argument, and to talk about some of the stuff that is already happening in the tertiary education sector. To set the scene, I tell the House that we will be funding almost 3,000 extra university places over the next 2 years, with a stunning total of 119,000 university places in 2011. That is an absolutely stunning total; it has never been as high as that before. We are also funding 16,500 more places in tertiary education than were funded in 2008 under the previous Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EMembers opposite are quiet now; I wonder why. It is because they cannot refute this argument\u2014these are the facts rather than the rhetoric. It is time for the facts. I hear some agreement coming from Opposition parties about our plans for international education. That sector is worth close to $2 billion to this country, so it is important that this bill deals with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EI will spend a very short time talking about the reasons for some of the provisions in this bill. On the tertiary education side of things we are looking at the Minister being able to issue directions on student services fees. Why would that be? Well, it is because there has been a creeping unease amongst students, and amongst those of us watching, when we have seen the average levy increase by 102 percent between 2009 and 2010, across all universities. That is an increase in the average levy from $194 to $392, but it is an increase by stealth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EThe increase is not really for what the institutions say it is for, so the Minister has decided to rein that in, to make sure we know what those fees are for. Under the bill the Minister will be able to require that fees are for a specified reason and held in a separate audited account, and that the categories for student services be made available. This bill is about transparency, which is something this Government really values. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EWhen we look at the regulatory impact statement on the changes to student services levies, we can see why we have to introduce those measures. Currently, the Government has no power to control the amounts that tertiary education providers may charge as compulsory student services fees. There is a risk, without such controls, that there will be very little incentive for providers to prioritise the services they deliver, and to deliver them really efficiently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EI can tell members that State sector employees are getting a very clear message from this Government that when they spend taxpayers\u2019 money they need to do it efficiently. They need to get absolute value for money. This bill is a continuation of that requirement, and most certainly the message is getting out there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003EDo members know what? My constituents say that they like that. They like the fact that this Government demands value for money at every turn. It demands value for money. They understand when this Government says that something is nice to have but is not necessary. This bill will be a good bill. I will enjoy hearing from submitters in the Education and Science Committee, and I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u002265ef848995bb4849969c232cadacfb92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265ef848995bb4849969c232cadacfb92\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The previous speaker, Jo Goodhew, mentioned that we had gone quiet on this side of the House. It was because we had all fallen asleep. But I have to admit that with that gnarly voice, it was like being lulled to sleep by the Wicked Witch of the West. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI also draw attention to the contribution that Simon Bridges made to this debate on the Education Amendment Bill (No 4). When we wanted to talk about education, what did we get from a member on that side? We got points of order about laptops. That just about describes the quality of their debate about education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI have to commend, though, the Minister for Tertiary Education. I see here a press release of his from 6 April 2011. The headline is: \u201CCombined international educational agency to boost sector\u201D. I will not read it all, but I will read the part where he says: \u201CWe have in New Zealand excellent schools, well respected Universities, institutes of technology and private providers.\u201D It is wonderful at last to hear an education Minister from National actually showing that he values education and that he values educators. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EWhen we look at the first part of the sentence, \u201CWe have in New Zealand excellent schools,\u201D I have to ask what makes an excellent school. We have students, first and foremost, and we have communities. Then we have the teachers; the teachers make excellent schools. But above the teachers, guiding and leading, we have principals. As my colleague Sue Moroney stated just before, 750 principals from around New Zealand descended on Wellington and on Parliament to have their annual conference. The feedback we have received is that they were absolutely stunned that the Minister of Education, Anne Tolley, who was invited to welcome them here at Parliament on the Wednesday evening, did not even reply to their letter inviting her to come and speak. They wrote to the Prime Minister and asked whether he would be interested in coming to the opening of their conference, but he said that that was a job for his Minister of Education. There was still no reply from Minister Anne Tolley. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI received today an email from a principal, a friend I went to teachers college with, who was at that conference. I will not say his name but I invite anybody here who wants to to come and see the email later to verify that it is a genuine email. It says: \u201CGreetings. It was good to catch up at the Beehive last week. I am pleased that there are people, like yourself, with common sense kicking around parliament. I liked what Sue Moroney talked about.\u201D Sue Moroney is our spokesperson on education, and a woman who speaks sense when it comes to education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EHere we get to the sad part: \u201CUnfortunately I was disgusted by the Minister on Saturday and her comments following her address to the conference. Calling NZPF a one issue political lobby group that has never [brought] anything positive to the table is offensive and shows her total lack of any thought of negotiation or discussion. Anne Tolley obviously believes she knows best and is not even willing to talk to anyone else. I despair at where our education system is heading with her trying to lead change. Maybe it is time I gave it away\u201D\u2014this principal is so disillusioned with the direction of education in New Zealand that he is considering giving the game away\u2014\u201Cand did something else\u2014I do not want to be forced to implement such a terrible system that National Standards offers. Thankyou again to you and your colleagues for your hospitality.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EHere is the clincher\u2014here is the clincher, everybody: \u201CI have never voted Labour in my life but in the coming elections will be doing so\u2014National no longer represents what I believe in for the future of New Zealand. Keep up the good work!\u201D. I tell Dr Paul Hutchison that that email is from a principal from his electorate. He needs to be concerned because the tide is turning when it comes to educators. That email is indicative of how people in the sector are feeling about the direction that education is going in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThis is the Education Amendment Bill (No 4). As I said during the debate on the Education Amendment Bill (No 3), in the debate on the Education Amendment Bill (No 2), and probably in the debate on the first Education Amendment Bill, once again we are debating an educational issue that actually does nothing to raise achievement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EHere we have an education amendment bill that looks at export education. \u201CExport education\u201D is code for trying to lure international students into New Zealand. There is nothing wrong with that. It is about tapping into the lucrative Korean market, Japanese market, Chinese market, and Indian market. Each of those students brings money into New Zealand, and that money helps to subsidise the education system, which is so underfunded by this National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ETalking about tapping into that lucrative Asian market reminds me of the old Billy T James skit where Billy T James is asked what he thinks of euthanasia. Billy T James says: \u201CWell, I think we should look after our own kiddies first.\u201D I totally agree. We should look after our New Zealand students before we start looking after everybody else\u2019s. Nothing in this bill will actually help New Zealand students to lift their achievement, or make them achieve better so we can have better social outcomes at the end of the day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EIn terms of the national standards debate, obviously kids are meant to achieve national standards, and they can then go on to university and tertiary education. But National has actually said, because of the disjoint between its policies, that it does not believe that national standards will work when it comes down to it. All the rhetoric over on that side of the House says that it is the best thing for New Zealand, but when we look at National\u2019s policies in totality we see there is a disjoint between national standards and other policies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EIf national standards are to work, then we would expect all of these really positive outcomes. We would expect better health outcomes, less incarceration in prisons, and all those sorts of things. But Bill English stood up and said that over the next 10 years the biggest Government department in New Zealand will be the Department of Corrections. I ask how that can be\u2014how the Department of Corrections can be the biggest department over the next 10 years\u2014if national standards are meant to cure all those ills. If New Zealand students are meant to be achieving and doing so well, why will they head off to prison and make sure that the Department of Corrections is the biggest Government department? It proves the disjoint between National\u2019s policies. As a colleague said earlier, the right arm does not know what the right foot is doing. They are trying to take them both out of their mouths at the same time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI am also Labour\u2019s spokesperson on tourism. Tourism New Zealand is an organisation that promotes New Zealand internationally so that tourists will come here. Let me tell members now that Education New Zealand, the new organisation, might as well be an arm of Tourism New Zealand, because its job is \u201Cto deliver strategies, programmes, and activities for promoting \u2026 New Zealand education overseas;\u201D. There is nothing about making students learn; it is all about promoting New Zealand as an educational tourism destination. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EWe are debating the Education Amendment Bill (No 4), and we should be debating something that will make students learn better, learn faster, and achieve beyond their potential. Instead, all we are talking about it is how we can attract students to come to New Zealand so that they can spend more money to subsidise the underfunding of the New Zealand education system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe one part of the bill I agree with, though, is that once we get those students here, we need to have rules about making sure they are looked after, and that the courses are not trying to rip them off. There has been a bit of a history of dodgy training programmes, and some students have been ripped off. I agree with the part of the bill that looks at the private training establishments. We cannot have our educational reputation being sullied because students come here and are ripped off by dodgy courses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ELabour supports the bill to go to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224fc577ffb5754e0a9099081dc0c43dd3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Education Amendment Bill (No 4) be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 111\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022265e01a7259549d09b6307f539dfb93f\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I remind members that if they are voting against a motion, they must make it very clear that they are voting against it, and then ask for a party vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00222a1a1d607a4444889816b41288663681\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a1a1d607a4444889816b41288663681\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Tertiary Education: I move, That the Education and Science Committee consider the Education Amendment Bill (No 4) , that the committee report finally to the House on or before 29 July 2011, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), and during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 187, 189(a), and 190(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fe49b5cf6e8e4b6daba54cba53139a36\u0022\u003ESentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220bc7117a90354df6b9c7633455227914\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00221858cab7184246dcbc5885a976592902\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221858cab7184246dcbc5885a976592902\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: I move, That the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill be referred to the Law and Order Committee for consideration, that the committee report finally to the House on or before 15 August 2011, and that the committee have the authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting except during oral questions, and during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 187 and 190(1)(b) and (c). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIn recent years our police and corrections officers have been subjected to an increasing amount of violence. Assaults on police officers increased by nearly a third between 2005 and 2009, and assaults on corrections officers have more than doubled, although serious assaults have dropped. The Government believes that as the first line of public protection against violent individuals and prisoners, police officers and corrections officers are deserving of greater protection in the course of their jobs than the law currently affords them. At present there are several offences that specifically apply when the victim is a police officer or a corrections officer, including assault on an officer and using a firearm against an officer. However, when other types of assaults are involved the accused is charged with generic offences that apply, regardless of whether the victim is a police or corrections officer. The law does not require the court to take the victim\u2019s status as a police or corrections officer into account as an aggravating factor in sentencing. That is left to the discretion of the sentencing judge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe Government believes that attacks on police and corrections officers, who are upholders of the law and protectors of the public, should be explicitly denounced in legislation. This bill will ensure that the courts take the status of police officers and corrections officers into account as an aggravating factor at sentencing for crimes committed against them while acting in the course of their duties. In addition to the new aggravating factor, the Ministry of Justice, Department of Corrections, and the New Zealand Police will continue to examine the adequacy of existing offences relating to assaults against police and corrections officers. Officials will report on the adequacy of the existing special offences by June 2011. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThis bill denounces the conduct of those who flagrantly attack the men and women who are charged with protecting our communities. An attack on a police or corrections officer represents an attack on the community and on the rule of law. Our police and corrections staff keep the community safe from our most dangerous people. This bill sends a strong signal that the Government will do everything in its power to protect them while they are on the job. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u0022196184c5d6e646cea986523beff89005\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022196184c5d6e646cea986523beff89005\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in support of the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill. Labour will support the referral of this bill through to the select committee. I think the comments of the Minister of Corrections about what this legislation will achieve are somewhat overstated, but I will come back to that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003ELet me start by saying that on the day when we are having the first reading of this bill I saw in today\u2019s Dominion Post a story with the headline \u201CBashed policeman says motorists saved his life\u201D. This is the story of highway patrol officer Steve McLardy of T\u016Brangi, who was bashed unconscious and received multiple punches. He was arresting a man who had given false information after a failed breath test. This was less than 5 months after Wai\u014Duru officer Bruce Mellor was beaten with a machete near Taihape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0acc2d6ad1b4e8db6712945b56e26d9\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: We read the paper, Carol. We can read over here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022315080b979804f7fb313adcd21b223e7\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT\u003C/span\u003E: None of us in this House, despite what Mr Paul Quinn was saying, would condone that sort of behaviour. We find it offensive that the people who serve us and look after our interests by trying to uphold law and order in this country, be they police officers or prison officers, should be treated in this way. We are all concerned about these sorts of gratuitous attacks on our police officers, and it is interesting that on the day when we are debating this bill there was such a story in our newspaper, although that is not uncommon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe bill would make the fact that an offence was committed against a police officer or a prison officer who is acting in the course of his or her duty a listed mandatory aggravating factor at the time of sentencing. As I have said, we agree that assaults on police and prison officers should be taken very seriously, and we have no problem with supporting this bill. However, we do not think it will make any difference, as the courts can, and already usually do, take into consideration that that is an aggravating factor when sentencing offenders. This is where I think the Minister somewhat overstated what this legislation is likely to achieve. I want to note that our public servants and our State servants\u2014people like police and prison officers, but others as well\u2014do a very difficult job, often in very trying circumstances: often with people who are angry, under the influence of drugs and alcohol, or feeling disenfranchised, or who for whatever reason are just plain bad or feeling just plain angry. Police and prison officers, and not just people in those jobs but also nurses, doctors in our emergency departments, teachers in our schools, Work and Income staff, and Housing New Zealand Corporation staff\u2014our State and public servants\u2014have to deal with these sorts of problems on a fairly common basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI wonder what is happening to those workers, police and prison officers but the rest of them as well, the other State servants and public servants, who are under enormous pressure from Government cuts, and who are under pressure because the public they are dealing with are stressed, are unemployed, and are struggling to make ends meet. Those things make doing the job a whole lot more difficult that it was previously. I just think that when we talk about legislation like this, we should talk about that context: the real fact that these people are being put under pressure by Government policy, and in fact in many cases are having the support that they are given and the number of staff in their organisations cut. Of course, we will all wait to see what happens in the Budget in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EGoing back to the specifics of this bill, as I said, we have no objection to the bill, but we think the Government is just tinkering around the edges instead of providing evidence-based plans to reduce crime. The Sentencing Act already provides that a court may take into account any aggravating or mitigating factor that it thinks fit in addition to the specific factors listed in section 9 of that Act. The Act lists a whole number of things that are aggravating factors, including the fact that the offence involved actual or threatened violence or the actual or threatened use of a weapon, and a whole lot of other factors. It then puts in place a number of mitigating factors, which include things like the age of the offender, whether and when the offender pleaded guilty, and the likes of that. So there is already quite a comprehensive list of aggravating and mitigating factors set out in sections 9(1) and (2), but the Act also says those things are not the end of the line. Nothing in those sections prevents a court from taking into account any other aggravating or mitigating factor that it thinks fit. Nothing in the sections that I have just referred to implies that a factor referred to there must be given greater weight than any other factor. So there is already provision for this type of assault to be treated as an aggravating factor at sentencing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThis amendment bill does not require a court to take any specific action in terms of the type or severity of sentence it imposes. It means the court will be required simply to take this factor into account, along with the other specified and unspecified aggravating factors, in arriving at the appropriate sentence to be imposed in a particular case. The regulatory impact statement says the court would already usually take this factor into account\u2014that courts have traditionally regarded assaults on law enforcement officers as serious. In fact, there is a quote from the High Court describing an attack on a police officer as \u201Cequivalent to an attack on the community, because our police are the representatives of the community in the matter of law and order in our society. They are society\u2019s front line.\u201D That was from a 1985 court case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003ESo we say we will support this bill, but we do not think it will make a great deal of difference. In fact, this is another piece of meaningless law and order legislation from a Government that does not seem to have any ideas for reducing crime, other than supporting \u201Cthree strikes\u201D - type legislation from the ACT Party. We are sick of seeing ad hoc and piecemeal law and order legislation from the Government in reactions to particular topical issues, without the Government trying to make a coherent whole, and without it trying to really address the real spectrum of issues that are so important\u2014the causes of crime, victims\u2019 rights, appropriate levels of punishment, and appropriate rehabilitation. What sorts of things are actually leading to the increase in violent crime in our society? They are issues around poverty, issues around parenting, and issues around alcohol and drugs. And what about unemployment, and what about the fact that so many people are struggling to make ends meet? None of those things, which are actually really important factors in driving crime, seem to get anywhere near the Government\u2019s radar. Instead, the Government seems to be willing to just have another very brief headline-grabbing piece of law and order legislation to say it is being tough on criminals and responding to law and order issues, even though in fact the legislation is all fluff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00229d3296d808c84e5585d330367541bd03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d3296d808c84e5585d330367541bd03\u0022\u003EJACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill, which is a small yet elegant bill that proves without a doubt something that the Opposition members\u2014in particular, Carol Beaumont\u2014do not seem to understand, which is that this Government backs the police. The National Government backs the police and the prison service, and, furthermore, is prepared to do something about it. For that very reason I am quite pleased that the likes of Carol Beaumont do not sit on the Law and Order Committee, which is charged with the scrutiny of this bill. Following that rather woeful speech, which showed for all time that Carol Beaumont neither reads the legislation nor understands it when she does read it, I hope this bill will have decent scrutiny. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI turn to the regulatory impact statement, which spells out in plain English, for those of us who can understand it, that the Sentencing Act currently provides that the court may take into account any aggravating or mitigating factor it thinks fit in addition to the specific factors listed in section 9 of the Act. But this amendment to the Sentencing Act, which shows without a doubt that this Government backs the police and the corrections service, will provide an element of certainty by requiring the court to take into account the fact that an offence is committed against a prison officer or a police office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EIf Carol Beaumont stuck her head above the union parapets and went into the provinces, she might notice that over the past 5 or so years a number of our police officers and prison officers have been under sustained attack by members of criminal elements in our society. What about that prison constable in \u014C\u0101maru who was attacked in February last year while going about his duty on Thames Street? He was set upon by a couple of absolute cowards who beat him into the gutter. That police constable was working alone. Those people had beaten him into the gutter. They had done their work and proceeded to try to leave. Do members know what he then did? He got up out of the gutter and went and gave them a seeing to. That is the kind of policeman that our Government will back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWhat about the policeman in W\u0101naka who was going about his duty as a sole-charge policeman? I tell Carol Beaumont that in the provinces our police have to go about their duties in a sole-charge position. That is the way it is in the country. That policeman went to check out a woman driver. She took off in her car and he was dragged down the street. That police officer, the police officer in \u014C\u0101maru, the police officer in Alexandra, and the police officer in Ranfurly know that this Government has their backs. The Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill shows our police and the Department of Corrections that without a doubt this Government backs them. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3d8f3aa85fd4d9a8ed25f8d16c86bab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3d8f3aa85fd4d9a8ed25f8d16c86bab\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E From time to time we learn from the media that yet another police officer or prison officer has been attacked. There has been a significant increase in the number of recorded assaults on police over the past 5 years. Total assaults increased by 33 percent over the 2004 to 2009 period, while serious assaults leading to charges under the Crimes Act increased by 38 percent. Taking into account the increase in the number of sworn police staff over that period, the rate of total assaults increased by 14 percent, and serious assaults by nearly 19 percent, during the period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe increase in the number and rate of assaults on prison staff over the same period has been sharper than the increase for police officers. Total assaults and serious assaults have both doubled during this period. There was also a sharper increase in the rate of assaults on prison staff compared with police officers, although this rate is still much lower for prison officers than for sworn police officers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EIt is therefore understandable that the objective of the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill is to ensure that the court takes into account the fact that an offence is committed against a police officer or prison officer acting in the course of his or her duty as an aggravating factor at sentencing. Labour supports this bill to go to the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe current law, especially the Crimes Act 1961 and the Summary Offences Act, includes a small number of offences that specifically apply when the victim is a police officer\u2014for example, using a firearm against a law enforcement officer, aggravated assault, and assault on a police officer. The court must impose a minimum term of 17 years for the murder of a police officer or prison officer acting in the course of his or her duty, unless it would be manifestly unjust. There are not currently any other special offences for assaults on prison officers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ESection 9 of the Sentencing Act sets out a number of aggravating and mitigating factors that must be taken into account when the court is imposing a sentence. These include factors such as the use of actual or threatened violence, whether the offence involved unlawful entry into a dwelling place, and whether the offence occurred while the offender was on bail or subject to a sentence. The list of aggravating factors also includes factors that reflect community values, such as whether the offender abused a position of trust or committed the offence due to hostility towards a particular group on the basis of race or religion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe regulatory impact statement by the Ministry of Justice notes that the courts have traditionally regarded assaults on law enforcement officers as serious. The High Court has described an attack on a police officer as equivalent to an attack on the community, because our police are the representatives of the community in the matter of law and order in society. They are society\u2019s front line. The Court of Appeal has emphasised the gravity of using serious violence against police officers, and upheld deterrent sentences in a number of cases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EIn a press release dated 13 October 2010 the Minister responsible for this bill, the Hon Simon Power, said: \u201CThough the new aggravating factor does not automatically require an increase in an offender\u2019s sentence, I\u2019m confident that explicit legislation denouncing this type of offending will help ensure courts impose tough penalties.\u201D What the Minister meant to say was that the proposed amendment would not require the court to take any specific action in terms of the type or severity of the sentence imposed. The court will, I gather, simply be required to take this factor into account, along with other specified or unspecified aggravating factors, in arriving at the appropriate sentence to be imposed in a particular case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EIn most circumstances the process, the consideration, and the conclusion that the court comes to will not be the slightest bit affected by this proposed amendment, because the fact that an offence has been committed against a police officer or prison officer is something that the court would usually take into consideration already. On that note, I look forward to learning more about how the bill would actually help ensure that courts impose tough or tougher penalties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EI note that the Minister of Police and Minister of Corrections, the Hon Judith Collins, said that the Government, through this bill, wants to send a strong and clear message that offending against law enforcement officers is unacceptable. Again, I look forward to seeing how that message will assist the bill being developed to achieve its objective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EHaving said that, here is a message for the Minister: although our police must be congratulated on their successful, intensified crime-fighting, the crime rate drop may be short-lived and could be quickly reversed if police are targeted by Government cuts to the public sector. Who said that? The Police Association. Its president, Greg O\u2019Connor, said that the gains were down to extra investment, which has seen 1,000 extra police officers added since 2006. So a big thankyou to Labour. The members opposite simply cannot deny the fact. As the president said, the gains were extremely fragile and could be reversed if a razor was taken to the police budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe message to the National-ACT Government from the police and from the general public is strong and clear: do not undo the good work. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3bb94cf7025488186188affdc36f555\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3bb94cf7025488186188affdc36f555\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party will be supporting the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill being referred to the Law and Order Committee. It will be interested to see the submissions at the select committee level, because it is a somewhat puzzling bill. As other speakers have said, it is a very short bill. It adds an aggravating factor to a number of aggravating factors that judges have to take into account in sentencing. But, as has been pointed out, they already do so. It is clear that police officers and prison officers put themselves in harm\u2019s way for our good, and I think judges always take that fact into consideration. They try as best they can to protect police officers and discourage people from committing offences, particularly assaults, against them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThere are already some provisions in the Crimes Act and Summary Offences Act in relation to assaults on police officers. The provisions under the Summary Offences Act carry a maximum penalty of 6 months\u2019 imprisonment. Under the Crimes Act the maximum penalty is 14 years\u2019 imprisonment for using a firearm against any police, traffic, or prison officer, and there is a maximum of 3 years\u2019 imprisonment for aggravated assault on a constable in the execution of his or her duty. So some provisions are there already. If the Government thinks it needs to add to the aggravating factors in the Sentencing Act that judges take account of during sentencing that the victim is a constable or a prison officer acting in the course of his or her duty, it probably would have been a better course to put it into a bigger bill, instead of going through all the hassle of this small bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EAs even the regulatory impact statement indicates, this is a fairly meaningless extra provision. It would be very hard to test the impact on sentencing, if any, of what we are voting on here and, if it goes through to its third reading, what we are voting on as a Parliament. To quote from the regulatory impact statement issued by the Acting General Manager, Crime Prevention and Criminal Justice, Malcolm Luey: \u201CThe proposed amendment will not require the court to take any specific action in terms of the type or severity of sentence imposed. The court will be required to take this factor into account\u2014along with other specified and unspecified aggravating factors\u2014in arriving at the appropriate sentence to be imposed in a particular case. Because judges\u2019 assessment of aggravating and mitigating factors are not amenable to empirical analysis and the proposed amendment does not entail specific action by the court, no monitoring or evaluation of the proposed amendment is possible.\u201D So we are left a bit up in the air about the effect of this amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIf we look at the existing aggravating factors under the Sentencing Act 2002, we see that they are pretty common-sense ones that judges would take into account anyway, such as whether the offence involved actual or threatened violence, or involved actual or threatened use of a weapon. Obviously, judges would take those factors into account. Judges also take into account whether the offence involved unlawful entry to, or unlawful presence in, a dwelling house. A home invasion would, obviously, be taken into account. Whether the offender was on bail is a factor that judges take into account every day. Other factors include whether there was particular cruelty, or abuse of a position of trust, and whether the victim was particularly vulnerable because of age, or health\u2014was disabled, etc. Clearly, judges take those factors into account. I suppose the next one is relevant to be put in that particular section of the Sentencing Act. It is whether the offender committed the offence partly or wholly because of hostility towards a group of persons who have the same characteristics of race, character, nationality, gender identity, sexual orientation, age, or disability. I think it is good to single out that factor, because we do not want the cancer of prejudice extending and expanding in our society. So that is quite a good one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWhether the offence involved a terrorist act is an obvious one to put in. Other factors include whether the person is part of an organised criminal group, whether there was premeditation, and the nature and extent of previous convictions. Those are obvious things to put in as aggravating factors. There is nothing particularly wrong, I suppose, with adding whether the offence was committed on a police or prison officer, but we are not adding a great deal to the law by doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe other side of this measure is worth commenting on. The other side of adding this factor as an aggravating factor, and the other side of the other provisions in the Crimes Act and Summary Offences Act for an extra penalty for assaults on police officers in the pursuit of their duty, is that police officers have to take particular care not to misuse that provision of a harsher penalty. We sometimes hear of complaints from people who are up before the courts, and sometimes from the lawyers defending them, that the charge of assault on a constable has been unnecessarily brought. Often there is a grey area between obstruction of a police officer, resisting arrest, and assault on a police officer. If there is to be a significant extra penalty for assault on a constable, a police officer who happens to be a bit prejudiced towards somebody has to be careful not to slap a charge of assault on the person rather than a lesser charge of obstructing or resisting arrest. That is the other side of the equation. If Parliament is to protect police officers and prison officers in this way, which we think is a good thing, an extra responsibility is placed on police officers and prison officers not to misuse that provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWith those few words, I say that the Green Party will be interested in the discussion at the select committee. We will see what the experts\u2014particularly the legal experts, law societies, and whatnots in this field\u2014say about the additional provision in this massive bill of less than a page, really. Thanks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022990023c0237f4954bc2db7bc9254a80d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022990023c0237f4954bc2db7bc9254a80d\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E It is always a pleasure to follow the Green member Keith Locke, who I understand is retiring at the end of this parliamentary term. He will be sorely missed from the House. I have never seen a member who can stand up and speak in favour of legislation and so convincingly spend the whole time arguing against why it is such a good idea. It is a skill. It takes a while to develop the skill to be so convinced that something is a bad thing but support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThe reason the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill has come about is simply that there has been an increasing number of crimes against officers in the course of their duties, whether he or she is a police officer or a corrections officer or whatever jurisdiction he or she may be in. There is a long list of assaults against officers and of police officers in Hamilton, Dunedin, and various other places suffering all sorts of quite substantial bodily harm from attacks. As a result, the National Party, as part of its manifesto and election campaign to the public, said that in Government it would take a close look at things related to law and order and do something about what has become a growing issue, as far as the public are concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the bill is to ensure that the fact that an offence is committed against a police officer or prison officer acting in the course of his or her duty is taken into account as an aggravating factor at sentencing. The notion\u2014and hopefully it will be successful\u2014is that the offence will be taken into account before criminals decide to take the law into their hands and start attacking those who are there and who are charged, as the previous speaker said, with looking after the wider good of the public and the community in the course of their duty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EI have no doubt that if the judiciary picks up and takes on board what Parliament is suggesting it should, longer or stiffer sentences might come about as a result. The whole reason why the bill has come about is that there have been a growing number of offences against officers. There seems to be a bit of a cavalier approach in society generally towards those who are in authority, and I guess one could say a lack of respect for the rule of law. Hopefully, the bill will send the message. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EI know from my own experience and from years of studying case study in Parliament and outside that one cannot solve violence with violence, but society has to set some standards and to put in place some bottom line so that for those who choose to challenge the standards and cross the line, there will be a sanction that befits the crime. I suspect that over time, because we are a liberal egalitarian society with a very open and free democracy, we become more and more concerned about the rights of those who have been the perpetrators of crime, as opposed to the victims of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EA rebalance is necessary. That is not a political comment. If we look at what has started to develop on both sides of Parliament in terms of policy, particularly around law and order, we see that when Green Party members get up and support such a bill going to the select committee at least, then there is a political reality that the public in general are looking to Parliament to set some higher standards in regard to law and order. National wants to send a clear message that assault against law enforcement officers is unacceptable. Over the past 5 years there has been a significant increase in the number of rates of assault on law enforcement officers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003EI look forward to the bill going through to the Law and Order Committee, which I am a member of. I will listen with great interest to submitters who raise concerns, such as the Law Society and others who may submit on the bill. As we go through the process I will take into account any of the concerns they may have. The bill is simple, as the previous speaker mentioned, so there is not a great deal of alteration that could take place, but there may be some areas and unintended consequences that we have not thought of at this stage that may come to light during the select committee process. I look forward to that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00225df8e67938b04f92a8c069b1710dd378\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225df8e67938b04f92a8c069b1710dd378\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to speak on the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill. Labour supports the bill going to the Law and Order Committee. We agree, despite what a previous National speaker said earlier in the debate, that assaults on police officers and prison officers should be taken very seriously. We have no problem with supporting the bill. However, we are concerned that it will not really make any difference, as the courts already can, and usually do, take consideration of assaults as an aggravating factor in sentencing. It is interesting that the Government is taking the issue of the safety of prison officers and police officers so seriously when with the legislation that has been passed and some of the changes the Minister of Corrections has made we have to question whether she has taken the issue seriously in the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI was a member of the Law and Order Committee about 6 months ago. A few things came to the select committee that really put at risk the safety of prison guards. I will mention just one thing to start with: double-bunking, which the Minister of Corrections thought she would introduce and which had evidence against it suggesting that it would jeopardise the safety of prison guards. We have seen the privatisation of prisons legislation go through, and we had submissions at that time that suggested that in the past when we had a private prison in New Zealand it was a safety risk to the prison officers who were in there at the time. The submissions stated that because of the performance bonus environment the prison guards were working in, unfortunately a lot of what should have been reported was not reported, and their safety was directly at risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EHere we are tonight discussing the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill, and members on the other side of the House are discussing the fact that it is all about the safety of prison guards. Very clear legislation has gone through the House that puts their safety at risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAs I said, we support the safety of our police officers. We, along with every other member of Parliament in this House, are appalled at the statistics in respect of the increase in assaults that have occurred for police officers over the last 5 years and that have occurred for prison officers over the last 5 years. The reality is that although we support this bill because it does no harm, it actually will not do any good either. The unfortunate reality is that in 2 years\u2019 time, when we look back at the statistics from now to 2 years moving forward, we will see that there is no change in the number of assault cases occurring, and, unfortunately, we will probably see a continued steady incline of the actual assault cases that take place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWhen we talk about police officers and prison guards as victims of assault, we take that very seriously; we take it very seriously when we are talking about victims of any crime. We are disappointed on this side of the House that the National Government seems to pick and choose when victims\u2019 rights and when victims\u2019 safety are of importance. We have seen in recent weeks a real undermining of the safety of everyday New Zealanders, with the cuts to family violence prevention programmes. That will not do any good for those women who are in situations where they are victims of domestic violence. We will see resourcing and funding taken away so they will no longer have the support they need if they find themselves in that situation. That is a clear indication that the National Government is not looking after victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAnother case where it is not looking after victims is in regard to the Domestic Violence Reform Bill, which is languishing at the bottom of the Order Paper, which was consulted on with the sector widely, and which had much time and resources invested in it, yet that side of the House does not take it seriously enough to move it up the Order Paper quickly. I think in that first 100 days of office the things that the Government prioritised at that time were, from memory, not even very important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022511d3f92c925438094304d1888563b75\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: Workers\u2019 rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236bf584d60f14513b1cffff2ae7eca6f\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Attacking workers\u2019 rights. What else did it do in that first 100 days?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b582a3769ba4cb0b536acb3d7990a32\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: Tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022966bc270d49d4b7faa1a324fc60e0f1a\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Tax cuts for the rich. I think in that first 100 days it gave $30 million to private schools, and it did a whole lot of things that were not priorities. That is another example of the National Government not prioritising victims. It did not prioritise the Domestic Violence Reform Bill. Instead we saw attacks on workers\u2019 rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill purports to be an indication of the Government\u2019s support for the safety of police officers and prison guards. Yet, as I said, every other victim has been hung out to dry by the National Government. The reality is\u2014and I say this sadly, because we wish that it would help\u2014that the bill will not make a difference, at all. We do not have any objection to this bill, as I said. Our real concern is that it will not make a difference. The Sentencing Act already provides that the court may take into account any aggravating or mitigating factor that it thinks fits, in addition to the specific factors listed in section 9 of the Act. That is something that is already happening. In terms of aggravating factors, and in terms of looking at that when sentencing takes place, we do not need this bill to make that happen. It is something that is already happening in our courts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe proposed amendment will not require the court to take any specific action in terms of the type or severity of sentence imposed. The court will simply be required to take this factor into account along with other specified and unspecified aggravating factors, and to arrive at the appropriate sentence to be imposed in a particular case. In most circumstances the process, considerations, and conclusion that the courts come to will not be in the slightest bit affected by this proposed amendment, because the fact that an offence has been committed against a police or prison officer is something that the courts would usually, already\u2014as I said before\u2014take into consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe Ministry of Justice pointed out in the regulatory impact statement to this bill that courts have traditionally regarded assaults on law enforcement officers as serious. The High Court has described an attack on a police officer as equivalent to an attack on the community, because our police officers are the representatives of the community on the matter of law and order in society. They are society\u2019s front line. The Court of Appeal has emphasised the gravity of using serious violence against police officers and has upheld deterrent sentences in a number of cases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThis bill certainly will not have any effect on the likelihood that an offender will assault a police officer or prison officer. Offenders do not stop to consider mitigating and aggravating factors that may be taken into consideration by the court when committing an offence. It is another example of the National Government doing things like this in a punitive manner, where it does not make a difference. We saw it with the \u201Cthree strikes\u201D bill, and we know from the submissions that came before the Law and Order Committee that having \u201Cthree strikes\u201D legislation will not make an offender stop and think before committing a crime. Basically, it is not effective at all. This bill is another meaningless piece of law and order legislation from a Government that does not seem to have any ideas for reducing crime, other than increasing sentences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EIn terms of what is going on at the moment out there, such as people struggling because the cost of living is going up, the Government proposing State asset sales, despite the fact that 60 percent of New Zealanders say they do not want it and only 10 percent say they do, the fact that increasingly children are showing up at our schools without having had breakfast and without lunch in their bags, it makes members on this side of the House wonder why legislation like this, which we know will not be effective, should be a priority of the National Government. It is window dressing. It is about the National Government trying to look like it is being hard on crime, trying to look like it is dong something in respect of law and order, but at the end of the day we on this side of the House know\u2014and time will tell\u2014that none of these measures that the Government is putting into place will be effective in any way. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022221079bed3094dc2b1f322f608edb5dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022221079bed3094dc2b1f322f608edb5dc\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am rather disappointed in the previous speaker, Carmel Sepuloni. First of all, she said that the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill will do nothing to reduce crime levels. I guess she tried to say that the courts were already dealing with aggravating assaults when she said there were already mitigating factors, but there is a huge difference between something that may be considered in sentencing and something that is required to be considered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EIt is similar to the difference between attempted murder and murder. There is a huge difference between attempted murder and murder, and there is a huge difference between something that may be considered and something that is required to be considered as a mitigating factor. There is a huge difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003ELabour members, who claim that National has done nothing, had 9 years to deal with this issue. Now they are saying that the Government is not doing anything for victims. Hello? The police officers are not victims? We are looking after the victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EEvery time our police officers don their blue uniforms they put their lives on the line. Whether they are answering a 111 call, investigating a disturbance, or patrolling a beat, police officers on the front line are working for us. They are working to keep us safe, but every time they do their duty to protect us their lives are on the line. Prison officers, too, come up against violence in the course of performing their duties. It is part of their job. That is what we expect them to do. They accept that their job comes with a certain amount of risk and danger. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EBut what happens when a police officer or a prison officer is attacked? We have all seen in the newspapers and on TV the horrific injuries suffered by police officers in their line of duty. Over the last 5 years, as other members have said, there has been a huge increase in both the rate and the number of assaults on police officers and prison officers. That is why the Minister of Justice is putting forward this bill, and I commend him for doing so. Unlike Opposition members, who claim that this bill does nothing, I believe that it will make a difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI do not know how many of us would want to do what front-line police officers and prison officers have to deal with on a day-to-day basis. I certainly would not want to do what they do. They put their lives in danger, and their families are constantly worried about their safety every time they go out there to do their jobs in order to keep us safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill is to ensure that the fact that an offence was committed against a police officer or prison officer acting in the course of his or her duty is taken into account as a mitigating factor at sentencing. As mentioned by the previous speaker, Carmel Sepuloni, that recourse is currently available, but only as a \u201Cmay be\u201D\u2014it may be considered as an aggravating factor. As I said, there is a huge difference between a \u201Cmay be\u201D, a \u201Cshould be\u201D, and a \u201Cmust be\u201D in respect of what the court is required to take into account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003ENational wants to send a clear message that assaults against law enforcement officers are unacceptable. We back our men and women in blue. We support our police force. That is the reason why I support the bill, and I commend this bill to the House. I look forward to its passage through to the Law and Order Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u00226c71ce4bebdd4b0986dbc71c17a7e535\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c71ce4bebdd4b0986dbc71c17a7e535\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to stand and offer some comments on the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill. I will simply restate that if one was to listen very carefully to this debate, one will hear that Labour backs the police. We are certainly sure that it is important to care for and protect our policemen, our policewomen, and our corrections officers. All that we are saying, in supporting the bill to go to the Law and Order Committee, is that we do not think it will make a big difference, because judges at the moment can take into account aggravating factors around existing crimes. In fact, if one looks at the situation when they do take aggravating factors into account, one will see some variance within the judiciary in terms of when they make their sentencing options known after some consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EHaving listened to the member before me speak, I can say that volume is no substitute for clear thought. Melissa Lee certainly demonstrated that. We want to ensure that the House is very clear on Labour\u2019s position, because anyone who listened to what Government members were saying would have heard them try to insinuate that Labour has no care or regard whatsoever for the good people who serve our communities day in, day out in our provinces and in our cities, in order to protect everyday Kiwi citizens. We absolutely believe that their protection should be at the forefront of the difficult duty that they do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI will raise the issue of security guards, which my colleague Carmel Sepuloni brought to the attention of the House. It relates to what is happening in our prisons. Corrections officers themselves will say that double-bunking in prisons alone actually creates an environment in which it is less safe for them to carry out their tasks. Let us be very clear: the Government introduced double-bunking, recognising from the sector\u2014from corrections officers\u2014that it was creating a more unsafe environment. This bill will do nothing to enhance the safety of corrections officers who work under those circumstances. We raise those types of issues as they present very real opportunities for the Government to take action and ensure that corrections officers are better protected in the workplace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EIf one were to take a somewhat cynical view of this bill, one would say yes, it prepares the way for National members on the Government side of the House to have a slogan that they can take out to the community. But it does very little in terms of delivering to where it is needed most: to those front-line officers, to ensure that they are protected in their workplace. One of the members on the Government side talked about the provinces and the fact that police officers go out into rural communities by themselves every day. But those same members say nothing about ensuring that there is double-staffing in rural police stations. They are not raising that issue as a potential opportunity to address safety issues in rural communities, although it could be a real, practical step towards safety for officers who serve in those rural communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI am concerned that the Government is misrepresenting the view of Labour. We support the police. We back them and we back corrections officers. We back the provision of a safe environment for them, but we do not believe that this legislation will do anything to make a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412be5f772bacc34d659634e7fcd190f875000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002215cc449778fd45d38c82a7edac3c9997\u0022\u003ETuesday, 12 April 2011\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022170b0fb4f8a9451085423432c267aa8f\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 13 April 2011)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002230a47748886e4912bcdc92121230d510\u0022\u003ESentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002252387540874845b9977b67c9f6284f41\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022315e7bc47d6e4448818d9d804860fccf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022315e7bc47d6e4448818d9d804860fccf\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak in support of the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill. We have a superb police force and corrections service in our country, and it is very important and imperative that as a Government we back up those men and women who, on a daily basis, put themselves in harm\u2019s way for the protection of our society. We ought not to be negligent in these matters. This bill is to include an offence against a police or prison officer acting in the course of his or her duty as an aggravating factor at sentencing. That means it will be taken into account at sentencing that this is a more serious crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWe have, in the past, seen many situations over the last 4 or 5 years where such situations of risk have occurred and where men and women who serve our country have been injured. Some have, sadly, lost their lives. Between 2005 and 2009, the total number of assaults on police increased by a third, from 1,869 to 2,481. Serious assaults increased by 38 percent, from 298 to 304. These are significant numbers. I think it is also interesting to note, at this point in time, that we are very thankful that crime has decreased in this last year\u2014there has been a 6.7 percent decrease across the whole country. However, at the same time we are finding that assaults against police have increased. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIt would seem to me that we have a very effective police force, which is our thin blue line that is standing as the buffer between lawbreakers and law-abiding citizens. Therefore, it is our imperative that we strengthen their stance, and back them up with legislation and laws that will protect them. The Opposition has made the claim that putting this law in place, and making it a mandatory consideration in sentencing, will not change the situation. I totally disagree with that. I believe that it is incredibly important we back up our men and women in blue with such laws. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe term \u201Cthin blue line\u201D is very interesting. Where did it come from? It came from the \u201Cthin red line\u201D. It is interesting, is it not: back in the Crimean War the British and Turks were standing against a Russian cavalry but the British and Turks had very depleted numbers; instead of having four lines in rank they had only two lines. When the Russian cavalry charged them, they saw such a thin red line that they thought it was a ploy\u2014in fact, they thought it was a diversion and a trick! Behind the thin red line stood what they perceived to be huge ranks of reinforcements, and because of that the Russian cavalry turned back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EOur thin blue line needs to have reinforcements, not figments of imagination, or a case of \u201CThis is what the courts may do if they want to.\u201D We need to have solid reinforcement behind the men and women who stand on that thin blue line in our nation, and that will be a bill that will protect them and, indeed, send the message to those who find it an easy thing to consider disrespecting authority, and attacking those people who uphold the law, that we as a country will not tolerate that sort of behaviour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EPolice and corrections staff play a vital role in keeping us safe in our communities, and it is important that we continue to support that role. We have heard of many tragic situations that have taken the breath away from the people of New Zealand, as we have seen pictures of these fine men and women who have been assaulted. I went out with the New Plymouth police one Friday evening not so long ago. We went around all the different places where, perhaps, infringement of the law and breaking of the law take place, and I was incredibly impressed with the calibre of the New Zealand Police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWe need to realise that at the end of their day these men and women go home and are ordinary citizens. We need to have laws in place that protect them, and laws that state that an assault against a police officer or a corrections officer is a serious factor that will be taken into consideration when it comes to sentencing. I am very happy to support this legislation as it proceeds through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u00227f7c9e8533964e6783dba619d6542ff2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f7c9e8533964e6783dba619d6542ff2\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E That presentation from Jonathan Young deserves and requires a response. Firstly, I think the underlying assumption behind the explanatory note of the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill is that the current sentencing regime does not take into account an assault on a police officer or a corrections officer as an aggravating factor. One could make that assumption by reading this legislation, and I want to say that it is completely wrong\u2014completely wrong. If we go out and talk to anybody on the street and ask them whether they are more likely to get into trouble if they assault a police officer or corrections officer, the answer will unanimously be yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe second thing I think is wrong with this legislation is the implication that the judiciary have not been taking into account an assault on a police officer or a corrections officer when they are making their decisions. I think that is completely wrong as well. In some ways, this bill could be interpreted as a slur on the integrity and the decision making of our judiciary. It could be taken that way, because by implication it says that an assault on a police officer or a corrections officer is not being taken into account now, and that Parliament is so concerned about it not being taken into account it will pass a law requiring the judiciary to take assault on a police officer or corrections officer as an aggravating factor, because they have not been doing it to date. I say to the Government that that is not correct\u2014that is not correct. Any simple analysis of the decisions of the judiciary will show that, in fact, judges have been doing that to date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003ESo if the judges have been doing it to date, and it is an aggravating factor, what is the motivation for this legislation? Many things come to mind. It could be that it is simply about politics. Jonathan Young gives us the clue to this. Jonathan Young asserts in this House that this legislation is necessary to protect police officers and corrections officers from assault. That is a very powerful assertion, but he does not then say how this legislation will do that. There is nothing there at all. There is no analysis, no logic, and no process to show that this legislation will fulfil his assertion that it will protect police officers and corrections officers. Anybody reading the legislation will see that it does not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThis is not defensive legislation; this legislation will take effect after the prospective assault on either a police officer or a corrections officer. For Jonathan Young\u2019s proposition to have any effect, a person who is contemplating assaulting a police officer or a corrections officer must think in a logical way, like this: \u201CI am about to assault a police officer. This is different from assaulting another member of the public, as Parliament has passed legislation saying that this will be an aggravating factor when I am up on the charge if I am detected, prosecuted, and convicted.\u201D They will then have to work out what the cost or tariff is likely to be for an ordinary assault, plus the aggravating circumstances now that Parliament has passed this bill, and decide that maybe this is not a good idea. I say to National and Jonathan Young that no one goes through that calculation when they are about to embark upon a crime. An assault on a police officer, or a murder, is an irrational act. It is not an act of a rational person, so a rational calculation is simply unthinkable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EWhen National claims that Labour does not support the bill and does not care, I disagree with that absolutely. That is a slur on the Labour Party. We are as offended as anybody else by assaults on the police. We are as offended as anybody else about assaults on our corrections staff. To imply that we are not is simply wrong, and it is simply playing politics to do so. Like the rest of our community, we value the role that our police play in protecting our communities. In fact our record shows that we had a record increase in the number of police staff and in investment in police to make our communities safer\u2014any analysis will show that. The Labour Party does not tolerate violence in our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EHaving said that, I will make another observation. An important process is happening here. Parliament is passing more and more legislation that puts an obligation on judicial decisions. I think in some way that that is a reflection of parliamentarians really wanting to be court judges. They say they are unhappy with a situation and will fix it by passing laws to require the judges to make decisions. I say to National that that is getting closer and closer to impinging upon the freedom of judges to make decisions. Our democracy is based on the separation of powers. One of those powers is the power of Parliament to legislate, and the second is the power of the judiciary to make independent decisions. In passing this bill in conjunction with the \u201Cthree strikes\u201D legislation and other legislation, we are now in danger of getting closer and closer to having judicial decisions made by simply filling in an equation box. In doing that we are restricting, in some ways, the independence of the judiciary to make independent decisions. If parliamentarians want to become judges and want to impose sentences, I suggest that they get a law degree, serve in the legal profession for a while, then apply to become a court judge. If those people do not want to be judges, and want to pass statutes, they should join a political party and come here and pass laws. Those are two separate things. Parliament is not here to restrict the independence of judicial decision-making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI will come back to summarise the points I have made. It is our contention, and everything on the public record will show, that judges today take into account an assault on a police officer or a corrections officer as an aggravating factor. They do that today. The implication made by this legislation is that the judges do not, and I reject that. The implication from National is that this bill will make people safer, and I do not agree with that, because no analysis has been shown, particularly by Jonathan Young, whom I listened to very carefully, and who is usually a thoughtful contributor to this House. In making the assertion that the bill will protect police officers he offered no analysis and no logic to show that that would be the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe value of this legislation is that it makes a statement of intent, and for that purpose, and because it is about a statement of intent, in many ways, the Labour Party will support this bill\u2019s referral to a select committee. Mr Assistant Speaker Roy, I think I have said enough, and it is a welcome sight to see you here on this fine Wednesday morning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1abd952b3904b13859b60cf4d164666\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1abd952b3904b13859b60cf4d164666\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I start by acknowledging the Hon Rick Barker in his new role as the senior whip for Labour. I look forward to working with him as we progress through the rest of the year. The Hon Rick Barker will stand in just a few short minutes to vote in favour of this Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill on behalf of Labour, but if we had listened to his speech, with the exception of the closing 10 to 20 seconds we would have thought that Labour was opposed to this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274a37c91df6048c8a5c7bf6120432bd5\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Keep you guessing, Chris\u2014keep you guessing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0358f034bc6454baab578486fb5944f\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I guess it did keep me guessing right to the end. It is good that we have wide-ranging support around the House for this legislation. The public would be forgiven for thinking that every piece of legislation in this House is opposed, but up to 70 percent of legislation\u2014certainly at its first reading\u2014is supported by at least the main parties. In many cases there is wide-ranging support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EIn regard to this Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill, I rise to say how important it is to me that this legislation goes through the House. As a local MP, the MP for Napier and Wairoa\u2014and the same could be said for any member of Parliament who is out there in the wider New Zealand\u2014I have got to know many members of the public. Members of the police force are members of the community whom MPs get to know very well. I have got to know many of the local police. Our families interact in many situations\u2014on the sports field, in ballet classes. We are part of the community together. The point I want to make is that when one of our local police officers is assaulted, it hits home pretty loud and clear. When I get up in the morning and go to work for the day as a member of Parliament, the last thing I expect is to be assaulted in my job. However, for the local constabulary that is often part of their job. We get situations like the one that occurred in July of 2010 in Clive. A constable I know, Senior Constable Alan Daly, who was out doing his normal job for the citizens of Hawke\u2019s Bay, had to chase down a car that happened to have two P-riddled druggies in it. He approached them, and the male in the car came round the back of the car and king-hit him in the back of the head, knocking him to the ground. His partner got out of her side of the car and started smacking the officer in the head and bashing him with his radio. That was from a simple arrest\u2014no, he was not even looking to arrest them at first. These situations arise, unfortunately, on a nearly daily basis for our police constables.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EWe as a Parliament need to be looking for solutions that reduce the level of assaults. I accept that this bill is not the only solution. The Minister of Police has taken steps in regard to giving the police access to Tasers\u2014which I might say the Greens opposed throughout the process\u2014and giving them access to weapons in police vehicles. The Minister of Police and the Minister of Justice have introduced a range of laws, and they all create a package that is helping our police force members to be better protected when they are out there in the community looking after us as citizens and going about their job to the best of their abilities. The last thing that we should expect of them is to be thinking they will be assaulted when they go out in their daily role.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EI am proud to support this Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill. It is great that despite some of the rhetoric from the other side of the House, Labour is supporting this bill, as well. I think it sends a message to our community that we are 110 percent behind our police force and the outstanding job it does in our communities around New Zealand. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u0022809cb66d6bd246f5a4a5189ee99f7628\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022809cb66d6bd246f5a4a5189ee99f7628\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to take a call on the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill. I realise that all of the slots have been taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b1900fe8ea44f7aae859de9e0a2e6ce\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member like to determine the time\u2014is it a 10-minute call the member is seeking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278ea73b2a6e242d59c31b0206e285091\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE\u003C/span\u003E: It is about 6 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0b86bafc6f74adeb8b4d0776103cfcc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0b86bafc6f74adeb8b4d0776103cfcc\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not believe that the member needs to seek leave, because I do not believe that all the slots are gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c967c580fc654f16ba556de3afab2302\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: No, all the slots are gone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022725177a6813048159d5dbeb6f8a4e6ec\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, are they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c92117e814846b0b8252b1a0f626f02\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they are. If the member wants a call she has to seek leave, so I will put leave for her to speak for 6 minutes. Is there anyone opposed to that course of action? Leave is opposed. The question is that the motion be agreed to. Those of that opinion will say Aye, the contrary No. The Ayes have it. [Interruption] No, any single member can oppose the leave. Leave was opposed. I am now putting the question. I think members lost track of what I was doing. I will restate the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224bfa7cd8578640ab95ce8f3bd6fe1b37\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 113\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party (Sharples) 1; Progressive 1; United Future 1; Independent: Carter C.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 4\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Party (Flavell, Katene, Turia) 3; Independent: Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00222f2ea67ae7054d0dbd109ade998f88b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f2ea67ae7054d0dbd109ade998f88b7\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: I move, That the Law and Order Committee consider the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill , that the committee report finally to the House on or before 15 August 2011, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), and during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 187 and 190(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002246a8184bdb114e18b6a6ddc8072c4aa1\u0022\u003EJuries (Jury Service and Protection of Particulars of Jury List Information) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022563792f3afcc407c83c1c79943f6d0a5\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022af9d9ed6966b4c47b62a2434e82a225a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af9d9ed6966b4c47b62a2434e82a225a\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: I move, That the Juries (Jury Service and Protection of Particulars of Jury List Information) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the Juries (Jury Service and Protection of Particulars of Jury List Information) Amendment Bill be referred to the Law and Order Committee for consideration, that the committee report finally to the House on or before 8 August 2011, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting except during oral questions, during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 187 and 190(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThis bill builds on earlier changes that the Government has made to improve jury services by increasing privacy and security for jurors, enhancing operational efficiency, and restricting people who are sentenced to home detention from serving on a jury. This Government takes the safety of jurors seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ELast year a self-represented accused corresponded with persons whose names and addresses were on the jury panel for his trial. This bill amends the Juries Act 1981 to restrict access to juror address details. Juror address details will be available to the prosecution and counsel for the accused in order to ensure that they have the information necessary to make jury challenges. If an accused is self-represented, a registrar may appoint a lawyer to represent and assist the accused during the jury formation process. These court-appointed lawyers will also be entitled to access juror addresses. However, this bill will prohibit those entitled to access the juror address information from showing the addresses to the accused or any unauthorised person, thereby enhancing the safety of the jurors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe bill makes other amendments that will enhance the jury system, including a provision for registrars to grant a permanent exclusion from jury service for persons so disabled or chronically ill that they are never going to be able to discharge their duties as jurors, and persons aged 65 and over who no longer wish to serve, or are unable to serve, on juries. Currently, people in these categories need to apply for an excusal each time they are summonsed to jury service because there is no power under the Juries Act to grant a permanent excusal. The Juries Act and the changes proposed in this bill continue to allow persons aged 65 and over to be available for jury service if they so wish. There will also be some cost savings for the Ministry of Justice because ongoing applications for excusal for some of these people will be unnecessary in future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe bill also restricts the eligibility of those sentenced to home detention to serve on a jury, which places home detention on the same footing as an equivalent prison sentence. This recognises that people serving a sentence of home detention have committed serious crimes and should be restricted in their ability to determine another person\u2019s guilt or innocence. A further amendment removes an anomaly in the Juries Act by repealing references to corrective training, which was abolished over 5 years ago. This bill will improve the jury system\u2019s administration and integrity, and help maintain jurors\u2019 safety, privacy, and security. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u0022415bb7bef65247cd8726b400d9dfbac6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022415bb7bef65247cd8726b400d9dfbac6\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Greetings to you, Mr Assistant Speaker Roy, and to colleagues across the House at the start of a long day here. I rise to speak on the Juries (Jury Service and Protection of Particulars of Jury List Information) Amendment Bill. Labour will be supporting it initially, so I am speaking in support of its first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EObviously, the bill is not what we would call an urgent matter, and I want to raise that point. We are in urgency and, once again, we find ourselves dealing with a whole lot of very non-urgent legislation. If we are going to deal with matters in urgency, it would be worth looking at some of the matters that are more urgent. The domestic violence legislation that has been languishing on the Order Paper might be a little bit more significant than this bill, the Juries (Jury Service and Protection of Particulars of Jury List Information) Amendment Bill\u2014gee, that is a long title. There are more urgent matters that we could be dealing with while we are sitting in urgency. I want to put on record my concern about the cuts in funding in the domestic violence area. I think it is an absolute disgrace that we are cutting funding for Te Rito and for child advocates in the domestic violence area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill, the Juries (Jury Service and Protection of Particulars of Jury List Information) Amendment Bill, is, as the Minister of Police said, to prevent offenders sentenced to home detention from serving on a jury, and protects the addresses of juries\u2014though they could be accessed through other means, potentially. It provides the ability to excuse people over 65 and people with chronic ill health or permanent disability from jury service. Labour members certainly agree that defendants having access to jury addresses is problematic. However, we think this bill has limited ability to protect that situation, as defendants who want to find addresses will still be able to do so, albeit they will have to take an extra step to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EIn terms of the bill itself, it is quite a short bill. It is in two parts. It has been determined that there will be no regulatory impact analysis of this bill because the proposals set out are expected to have \u201Cno or only minor impacts on businesses, individuals, and not-for-profit entities.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003ELabour members\u2019 concern is that, again, we are seeing legislation in the justice area that is part of a very piecemeal approach by this Government. We seem to constantly have very small bills dealing with particular issues that have come up, rather than our looking at the real issues of the justice system and issues to do with crime. We would certainly support a much more comprehensive approach towards dealing with things, rather than the Government reacting to whatever is at the top of its head, whatever comes up publicly, whatever it thinks will get it some brownie points. We have concerns about that, and I raised those same concerns last night when I spoke on the bill we have just dealt with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EUnder this bill, defence attorneys and advisers to defendants representing themselves will not be allowed to show addresses to defendants. However, defendants will still be able to see and hear the name in court, so arguably they could look up the address in the white pages or on the electoral roll. Therefore, as I say, the bill will not exactly fix the problem; it will put in an additional step between the two things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe issue of juries is one I am dealing with in another forum as a member of the Justice and Electoral Committee. It is a select committee that I have to admit is well chaired by Chester Borrows, the member opposite. He does a very good job and is well respected across this House. I keep saying to him that he should worry about his reputation, because Labour MPs are always saying good things about Chester. But he does a very good job in chairing that select committee, which is dealing with the issue of juries in relation to the Criminal Procedure (Reform and Modernisation) Bill. In that bill we are dealing with issues like the threshold for jury trials. It is a fundamentally important issue. We will have to amend the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act because the bill deals with a fundamental right, and that is the right to a jury trial. It will lift the threshold from the current 3 months to 3 years, and many, many submitters have raised concerns about that. At its essence a jury trial is one element of our system that is about democracy. In the end, the people get to decide whether someone is guilty. It is direct democracy. So issues in relation to juries are really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EAs all of us in this House will know, either from our own personal experience or from dealing with the people we see in the course of our job, the issues around people serving on juries are complex. For many, it is in the end an issue of time and money, and if we are going to start to look at juries, I think we should look at that issue. In these tough economic times, when New Zealanders are struggling in the face of ever-rising prices and static or declining incomes\u2014in other words, when people are really struggling to make ends meet\u2014going on jury service in return for a paltry sum is something people cannot afford to do. There are people now who are excluded from their right as a citizen to serve on a jury. So there are far more important issues in relation to juries. We are dealing with some of those issues here and some of them in a significant piece of legislation, the Criminal Procedure (Reform and Modernisation) Bill. Frankly, why are we not dealing with this issue as part of that bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003ESome other matters in this bill are of value and Labour members will be interested to see the submissions on them. The bill allows for permanent exemptions from jury service, which seems to make sense if people\u2019s situation will not be changing and it will be equally impossible for them to be on a jury in 2 years\u2019 time as it is now. There is probably some sense in that. Likewise, the bill deals with a loophole in the Sentencing Amendment Act 2007, which created home detention as a sentence in its own right but failed to amend the Juries Act\u2014it was obviously overlooked. At the moment people convicted of a custodial sentence of more than 3 years are barred for life from sitting on a jury. This bill bars people from serving on a jury if they have, in the previous 5 years, been sentenced to home detention for 3 months or more. It deals with a loophole. Clearly, it is important to deal with matters such as that as they become apparent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EPart 1 deals with the issues of jury service and the point I have just made about disqualifying certain offenders from serving on juries. It gives registrars more powers to excuse people from jury service, and includes the ability to excuse somebody permanently, as I have said. Part 2 is the part of the bill that provides the ability to limit access to the address lists of jurors in order to try to protect them, although, as we have said, we think it will have limited benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI go back to the question of piecemeal reform. Clearly, people such as Simon Power, Chris Finlayson, and others have talked about the need for drastic reform of our justice system, yet we are seeing another bill dealing with a particular issue. Often, as in the case of the bill last night, it will arguably make very little real difference. As my colleague the Hon Rick Barker said earlier this morning, the bill implied that the courts were not taking account of whether the person who had been assaulted was a police officer or prison officer, whereas, in fact, they are. Government members are dealing with things in a piecemeal manner to try to get stripes or brownie points for being able to say to the public that they are tough on law and order and are dealing with all of those issues of crime, when what is required is a comprehensive look. People who submitted on the other bill I was talking about before, which lifts the threshold in relation to jury trials, have said that our Crimes Act in total is very outdated, and that we should be looking at a comprehensive review of that legislation, rather than dealing with the Criminal Procedure (Reform and Modernisation) Bill without looking at that base document, the Crimes Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI leave the House with the thought that although Labour will support this bill and will consider it, and although there are some sensible elements in it, we believe that reform is being undertaken by the Government in a very piecemeal manner. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022565937db4fa645b38b126dad299f17b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022565937db4fa645b38b126dad299f17b9\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in support of the Juries (Jury Service and Protection of Particulars of Jury List Information) Amendment Bill and commend it to the House. I guess it is always to be expected that when an Opposition party votes with the Government, there will always be a whole lot of sentences that start off with \u201CWe support this bill, but\u201D and ending with \u201Cit does not go far enough.\u201D, \u201Cit should not be done now.\u201D, \u201Cthere are greater problems we should be dealing with.\u201D, or \u201Cwe should not be dealing with this within urgency.\u201D\u2014but, but, but! The problem with that approach is that those members fail to recognise that there are times when changes need to be made to reflect changes in public sentiment, and also to reflect changes in the public\u2019s assumption of responsibility on behalf of the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe last bill that we debated, which I did not get the opportunity to speak to, really recognised that in the past the community has taken a strong interest in the way their police, for instance, and their prison officers have been dealt with by criminal elements within the community, and the community has taken a more interventionist and more active role in protecting those people. The fact is that these days the community does not do that. These days communities are far more open to putting up their hands and saying \u201CWe pay our taxes; we allow them to get on with their jobs; leave us alone.\u201D, and that is exactly what is reflected here in this bill. We need to accept that juries have actually been treated quite badly over the years in terms of what is expected of them in this modern age when taking part in jury trials, and in terms of the information that they are given with which to do their jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThe point raised by Carol Beaumont earlier was about remuneration. The fact is that within our justice system we expect the public to take part in jury service. We expect them to be available for that, and we expect them to do that out of a sense of duty. What price do we put on community obligations in this day and age? What remuneration should jury members expect to be given for taking their role as society\u2019s representatives in jury trials? Is it right for them to expect anything? I guess the converse question is whether it is right for society to expect somebody to do something free of charge when there is a real cost associated with the attendance of that jury member at the court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EAs somebody who has sat through many, many jury trials over the years, I can say it has been a farce to see the way in which our juries have been selected. People have been chosen or rejected on the basis of, for instance, their clothing. If people really do not want to be on a jury, they should wear a three-piece suit and carry a briefcase. The reason given is that defence counsel\u2019s arguments are so ludicrous that anyone who shows an ounce of intellect would see right through them. So someone who really wants to get on to a jury should wander along to the jury selection process wearing jeans and a T-shirt, because, in a very prejudiced and biased way, solicitors expect that people who have the time to wander along to a jury trial and treat it as lightly as that may not give it the attention they should, in terms of the way that they sit and deliberate on the issues before the court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EI think it is right and proper that the Government moves at this time to protect juries even more, as we are asking them to do significantly more, for less. The fact that as a result of this bill we will be withholding the addresses and occupations of people on jury lists from the people who appear before the court is right and proper, given the added advancements of technology and the ability of defendants to be able to locate and to take retribution, either themselves directly or via their mates, against people who they can easily identify as having been on the jury. I believe that it is time for this Parliament to look at what we require of juries, at how we assist them in making their decisions, and at the job that we ask them to do on our behalf, in the same way that we are looking at the protections that we offer to juries and at the sanctions that we provide when defendants move against the people from across our society who act on behalf of our community as a whole. I commend this bill to the House and look forward to its passage through the select committee process, but, sadly, I note it will not be put before the Justice and Electoral Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff050216f1f14274bf15d9329eee3c4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff050216f1f14274bf15d9329eee3c4b\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I thought that was a very interesting presentation to the House by the honourable member Chester Borrows, who is a thoughtful and considered member. I was intrigued, I must say, by his advice on how to escape jury service by turning up in a three-piece suit and carrying a briefcase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eea970082a884d9e9efe4864dc8f3cb9\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019d be an expert.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ce583223b2c49c98d7e9b980b5a51a7\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Paul Quinn that I have never been asked to be on a jury, and it is to my regret. I would like to serve on a jury, but have never had the privilege. Chester Borrows has put out this plan for exempting oneself from jury service, which is to turn up wearing a three-piece suit and carrying a briefcase, and therefore it sends a message to defence counsel that the person might take an interest in the case. I say to Chester Borrows that that says more about the legal profession than it does about jury service. If people are to be judged simply on the basis of what they wear\u2014and presumably, according to Chester Borrows\u2019 analysis, the person who is wearing jeans and a T-shirt will be less critical of the evidence placed before them than a person wearing a three-piece suit and carrying a briefcase\u2014then I think that says more about the quality of the legal profession and defence counsel than it does about the jury system itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EBut I do agree with Chester Borrows that the jury system is critical to our justice system; there is no question about that. One of the fundamentals of our jury system is that we are tried by our peers, and everybody thinks that that is fair enough. We have the utmost respect for the judiciary and the wisdom they bring, but people feel comfortable with the fact that 12 ordinary New Zealanders are sitting on a jury, hearing the arguments backwards and forwards, and making their judgment. It is part of one\u2019s civic duty to serve on a jury, and I say that one of the things this House should concern itself with is that the importance of this civic duty is somewhat lost in our society today. People see it not as a duty but as an obligation and something to be dodged and avoided. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EIn part, we have brought this about by our own actions. Juries in the past have not been treated particularly well, they have not been rewarded very well, and we have put them in some very, very difficult circumstances. I will give members one example. Historically in Greymouth the conditions for jurors were dreadful. There was no meeting room for jurors to be herded into and await selection. They had to stand outside. On the West Coast it rains a lot, so traditionally jurors at the old courthouse on the West Coast used to wait across the road, under the awning of Blanchfield\u2019s pie shop. Blanchfield is a name that should ring a bell in this House, because Paddy Blanchfield was a former member of Parliament for the West Coast. People would wait under the awning of Blanchfield\u2019s pie shop, because the southerly and the rain would be coming through and it was the only dry place to stand. In the teeth of the southerly, the door of the courthouse would open, the registrar would put his head out and shriek a bunch of names into the wind, and people would flick their cigarette butts into the streaming gutters, splash their way across the road, sprint up the steps, and go inside to be either told \u201CYes\u201D or told \u201CNo\u201D and they were out of there. But when the jury was empanelled, there was no room for it to retire to. There were no coffee-making facilities. The best that could be done was that the registrar would move some files out of a room\u2014which could be done only on a fine day, because one could not put the files in the car park, and there was no other space\u2014or people would have to troop their way down to Revingtons Hotel nearby, through the rain, to have a cup of tea and then troop their way back again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThis was, by any measure, mickey mouse. It was only barely tolerated on the West Coast, because the West Coast did not expect Wellington to do much for it, anyway. I am pleased to say that Greymouth now has a new courthouse and that those conditions have improved somewhat. But, by and large, the conditions we put our jurors under were pathetic. They were cramped conditions and we did not look after them. That is the first thing, and we have to do much better than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe second thing that we have failed to do is to properly reward jurors for the loss of time and for their service. This is one area that I think the Government needs to pay attention to. I am sure it will say that we have a no-bid Budget and that we have all these other pressures, but the fact of the matter is that people do give up their time. They do that at quite a considerable amount of expense and cost to themselves, and the community should protect them from that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe other thing that this bill seeks to address is a very disturbing trend that has occurred whereby defendants have attempted to interfere with jurors on jury service. They have been able to do so because, as Kiwis, we have been very open about information. Defendants have been able to easily access the information on jury lists and so on to obtain the names of jurors and their addresses, and this has created a very disturbing trend. This bill seeks to address that issue, and I agree with that part of the bill, 100 percent. We need to protect jurors. I accept that there are some things that we cannot do by way of this legislation, but we need to protect our jurors from undue influence being exerted by an unscrupulous number. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI am not sure why this was not done in a previous justice bill. It could have been done in one that has already gone through the system, but the fact that it is here now is a good thing. Parliament is going to pass two pieces of legislation where, in my opinion, one could have done, but if the Government wants to make work for itself more difficult, then that is its problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI am pleased that this bill will be coming to the Law and Order Committee. The honourable member Paul Quinn enjoys the Law and Order Committee. It is a place of good debate and we have some very interesting discussions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022136c14af155e477da9cdc42c98a3dfa8\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Visionary foresight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a811f44a4ed242d5a3767a69e3e981f3\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the committee on occasions has some members who have vision and foresight. Unfortunately, some of the bills it gets from the Government and individual members lack vision and foresight, and we try to give legislation that when we can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003ELabour will support this bill\u2019s referral to the select committee, we will look forward to the representations being made on it, and we will do everything we can to improve the quality of our jury system. As I have said, the jury system is critical to our justice system. We need to protect it, but we need to go further. That is beyond the scope of this bill and it is beyond the scope of the select committee, but I would impress upon the Government that it needs to take a lead in promoting jury service as a greatly rewarding and important part of our civic duty as citizens. The jury service can work only if good and competent people put their names forward and are prepared to undertake jury service. If we construct a system where we have so many loopholes and where people feel that the job is so onerous that they use those loopholes to escape from it, then the legal system is the poorer for it. We want to make sure that we have a jury system that encourages and supports people to undertake jury service, so that we have the best of people sitting on the jury whenever defendants are facing a charge so that they are tried by their peers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI am sure that everybody in this House, should anyone ever be in the unfortunate situation of being a defendant in a case, would want to have the finest jury possible. We would all expect that for ourselves. It is our responsibility to ensure that we put in place not only a legal framework but other supports to encourage the best of New Zealanders to put forward their names and to undertake this civic duty. New Zealanders should see it not as an obligation or something they have to do because they are compelled to do it, but that New Zealanders take up this responsibility because they want to do it as part of their civic duty in making this a much better country, so that it is their contribution towards the goodness and the well-being of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThis legislation does that in part. But there are many other elements that need to be taken into account\u2014not just the housing and accommodation for jurors when they undertake this service. It has to also be a matter of the support services we put in place for them: looking after their cars, helping them with baby sitting, and reimbursing them against the costs of undertaking jury service. It cannot be solely at the expense of the individual undertaking jury service. If people undertake jury service on behalf of the community, then we have an obligation to support them in carrying out that duty. Just as the community supports members of Parliament and the judiciary in carrying out their roles on behalf of the community, we should do the same for jurors, as well. We need a much sounder, more robust, and better system for supporting jurors in undertaking this duty. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u0022514a0d69e6724ac49713ec1f2209aebd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022514a0d69e6724ac49713ec1f2209aebd\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party will support the Juries (Jury Service and Protection of Particulars of Jury List Information) Amendment Bill being referred to the Law and Order Committee. The bill tidies up some of the issues about disability and questions like that. I think the question of excusing a juror who has a disability that would prevent them from properly fulfilling their jury service is a fair enough provision. Up until now I think it has been applied, but it is good to put it in law. I think the bit in clause 10 about it being on written application for the purpose made by, or on behalf of, a person is quite important because it has to be on the initiative of the person with a disability. Sometimes people who are not disabled underestimate the capacities of people who are disabled. That is a constant problem in society. I think that if a disabled person in various respects feels that they can conduct jury duty, they should be given a chance to do so. I think the select committee will have a look at that provision and make sure that it serves both purposes\u2014that is, not to hinder a jury by having somebody whose disability is to an extent that prevents them from properly operating as a juror, and, on the other hand, not forcing a disabled person off a jury when they think they have the capabilities to perform that duty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThere is another question on protecting the details of jurors, protecting the privacy of jurors. That is one that I would like to hear some legal expertise on in the select committee. I can understand the need for privacy of jurors\u2019 details and jurors not being subject to undue pressure from the prosecution, from the defence, or from people after a trial. We want people to give a fair decision in a jury trial, unhindered by any outside pressures they might face before, during, or after the event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe only question I raise\u2014and I would be interested in legal representations on it at the select committee\u2014is whether it in any way offers a balance in terms of jury selection. I do not know whether it gets into that area. Jury selection is very important. The prosecution scans jury lists to see where potential jurors might fit, in terms of its case, whether they might be disposed in favour of its case, and the defence tends to do the same. It looks for people on the jury who might be sympathetic to the case that it is proposing. The tension between the prosecution and the defence sometimes leads to a broad jury where both the prosecution and the defence get their way a bit in terms of the type of jurors they want to see on that particular jury for that particular case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI think it is important for the jury system to operate correctly, and Rick Barker talked about this a little bit in his contribution. We do not need to have all people wearing suits and ties and carrying briefcases, nor all people wearing jeans and T-shirts; we need a cross-section of society on juries so that on the jury\u2014which, in my experience, and I have been on a jury, tends to take its task pretty seriously\u2014there is a feed-in from different life experiences and different sectors of society into the consideration of the case before the jury. Particularly as we move along and become more multicultural as a society, it is good to have multicultural representation, as well as broad gender representation, etc. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThat is something I think we should jealously guard. We should create an atmosphere in society, and in the prosecution and the defence, that we really need a broadly based jury. Hopefully, this provision will not in any way hinder that process. With those few words, I say that the Green Party looks forward to this bill going to the Law and Order Committee, and hearing, particularly, the experience of coalface lawyers from the prosecution and the defence, and from the Law Society, etc., on this particular bill and its provisions. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u00224fbe8c85eac440e2b5febad3d13f2720\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224fbe8c85eac440e2b5febad3d13f2720\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E The M\u0101ori Party is happy to support the Juries (Jury Service and Protection of Particulars of Jury List Information) Amendment Bill at its first reading. We see these reforms as part of a wider context in terms of the Government making it easier for people to carry out jury service. I was interested to hear from Mr Barker when he said that he has never had the opportunity to be on a jury. I think that could be for a number of reasons. One reason could be that he is not on the electoral role\u2014I hope that is not the reason. The other reason could be that on the electoral role he has listed his profession, and that would automatically disqualify him. The other reason could actually be that he is just unlucky, in which case I would say to him to please not take out any tickets in Lotto. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWe all know that many people who are called up for jury service do not actually attend when asked to take part in this civic duty. I think the statistics are fairly conclusive on this point. In 2009 some 62 percent, or close to 200,000 people, summoned for jury service were excused, and a further 21 percent, or 67,938, failed to attend. It seems to me pretty straightforward that something needs to be done to ensure that a representative and inclusive jury service can be maintained. If we want to have a service that is about being judged by our peers, then we really do need to have it right across all our peers, whether they turn up in suits with briefcases or in jeans and T-shirts. We really do need to have people from right across the spectrum to serve on juries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThis bill is intended to achieve a range of outcomes. It looks to improve privacy for potential jurors from the accused or the defendant; to strike the right balance between a juror\u2019s right to privacy, safety, and security and a defendant\u2019s right to a fair trail; and to improve administration of the jury system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe legislation is generally consistent with the M\u0101ori Party view to empower victims of crime. In this context, it prevents the accused from gaining access to potential juror addresses. It creates a safer balance between jurors and the accused. The M\u0101ori Party also promotes a just and durable legal system, and its efficient administration\u2014as anticipated through the changes in this bill\u2014is part of that. The M\u0101ori Party recognises that those who participate in jury service must be competent. We agree with the rationale that those who have offended in the previous 5 years and have been sentenced to home detention for 3 months or more should not be asked to serve on a jury for the specified period of time. We need to make it as easy as possible for people to take part in this important civic duty, and for all New Zealanders to be judged by juries that represent the broadest range of our people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EFinally, I emphasise our strong support for the legislative change to prevent the accused from ever seeing potential jurors\u2019 addresses. We cannot tolerate any possibility of a justice system that leaves people more vulnerable. We welcome the move to prohibit the defence lawyer or court-appointed adviser from showing the addresses to the accused. We also support the proposed change to section 14A(6) of the Juries Act, which makes it clear that misconduct in relation to jury lists may be treated as contempt of court. We are happy to support this bill at this its first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5acee0a5931416d9dacbde28558b57c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5acee0a5931416d9dacbde28558b57c\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E I have been involved in the selection of many, many juries. The way it works is that the Crown or the defence gets to challenge without cause six potential jurors. This is Chester Borrows\u2019 reference to what they are wearing. It is true that to some extent one will make an assessment of the person as they walk up to the jury box; once they have sat down, that is it. As a prosecutor, one will also have some reference to, perhaps, their previous convictions. If it is a sexual charge and the potential juror has offending of that pedigree, one would think about that and probably challenge them. Lawyers have six challenges; in multi-accused trials they have 12\u2014whether one is defence or Crown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI will tell members the one rule that all Crown and defence lawyers know; Steve Chadwick\u2019s husband knows this. I will bring this secret out into the open today in this House. It is a rule that all counsel in all jury trials follow: never ever\u2014ever\u2014have a teacher on a jury. Never ever have a teacher on a jury. If one thinks of Trevor Mallard or maybe Kelvin Davis one might have some sense of why that is the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022241cca2a2b8d471a9325a43ceb54fbc2\u0022\u003EKelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: Too busy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292d265eac3e84ab5b476369c9309a8eb\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is because they think they know it all. They have been used to lecturing and talking down to children for a very long time. Their minds are not malleable, they will not listen to decent arguments, and they jump to conclusions. I have just exposed that secret in relation to the selection of jurors. It is something that the Crown and the defence follow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe Juries (Jury Service and Protection of Particulars of Jury List Information) Amendment Bill is an excellent bill, which will protect more stringently jurors\u2019 addresses and particulars, and will help maintain privacy, safety, and security. I thought about this bill when I saw this headline in the New Zealand Herald this week: \u201C$10m drug kingpin guilty\u201D. That was a jury trial. One can understand quite quickly in a case like that why people would have very strong and reasonable reservations about their addresses being known by an accused. In a case like that, so much is up for grabs. Underworlds can be involved in terms of the witnesses and, certainly, the accused, who will stop at literally nothing to get off the charge. So we are doing something here to strongly protect jurors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EJurors do get squeamish. There can be issues, understandably, with the serious cases. It takes only one or two to feel those pressures acutely for a trial to have to be stopped and started again, and for there to be delays\u2014at a huge cost to the taxpayer, if one is doing that sort of thing. This bill gets around that. If for that reason alone, this is an excellent bill. I hear the comments made by other members about things that could be in it, but what it does is sufficient to justify it as a good bill before this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00221bf32f4ba217448f8e57f797550b336e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bf32f4ba217448f8e57f797550b336e\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to rise and speak on the Juries (Jury Service and Protection of Particulars of Jury List Information) Amendment Bill. I think my colleagues have made some really good general statements about the context in which we should look at this bill, and the role of juries more broadly. Everyone in this House, I know, will acknowledge that jury service and the role of jurors are critical to our criminal justice system. Unless we have a robust system that allows our peers to stand in judgment of one another, then everything falls down. But underpinning that system again is the need to ensure that we have a broad cross-section of jurors who are willing and able to serve on our juries, and that we remove as many inhibitors to their serving as possible. Time is a massive issue, as is the ability to travel to court; for a lot of people it is very costly. We should be mindful of these things in terms of ensuring that we always have a representative cross-section of people standing on our juries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI would be very interested in knowing whether the select committee is able to do a bit of analysis of those who are currently listed as having sought and received exemptions, over and above those that are listed in this bill. Do we, for instance, see a particular profession very rarely represented at jury level because its members are consistently exempted from service? Do we see certain age groups, cultural groups, or ethnicities seeking exclusion from jury service and receiving it? Let us look at the reasons why that might be. Is it because of people\u2019s occupation or family commitments, or because of the cost? I would be really pleased if the select committee spent a bit of time looking at those issues. I do not feel we have a true sense of whether we currently have truly representative juries, and I would like to see that addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe other general point I want to make, before talking about some of the detail of this bill, is that as a former member of the Justice and Electoral Committee, I know that we have seen an extraordinary number of justice bills go before that committee. I have made a comparison, having moved from that committee to the Social Services Committee, which is an excellent committee and has a lot more time to consider the systemic issues in the area that we sit across, because we are not constantly inundated with what I perceive to be generally reactionary bills. By that I mean, for instance, the bill we have just finished considering, the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill, which increases the specific penalties on those who assault police officers. Of course, I want to see those who assault police officers be dealt with using the full force of the law, but the idea that we need to have a specific provision setting that out in the Sentencing Act, when we already see it taken into consideration in sentencing, causes me to feel that there is a piecemeal approach to our criminal justice system, particularly in sentencing. We have seen that approach on a number of occasions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EPersonally I would rather see us as a Parliament, and as members of select committees, consider the wider systemic issues in the criminal justice system. Why do we have the second-highest imprisonment rate in the world, second only, I believe, to that of South Africa or the United States? Either way, that is an indictment. Why are we not discussing that issue, along with the fact that our rate of criminal offending is not really increasing, yet our imprisonment rate is increasing dramatically? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EMoving on to the specifics of this particular bill, we have already talked about the fact that some elements of the bill are simply common sense. I think it makes sense that there is no regulatory impact statement for this bill, because it affects only a very narrow pool of people, and they tend to be those who are eligible for jury service, and those who might seek exemptions from it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI will just run through three specific areas of the bill. One is the issue of ensuring that jurors\u2019 personal details are not revealed, so as to keep them safe in the event that they serve on a jury and someone seeks them out. I would like to see the select committee consider that one in a little more detail, because, as we have already said, there are opportunities in court for jurors\u2019 personal matters to be raised. If we are to be comprehensive about the safety of jurors, we would be wise to look at that, perhaps in the same way that we do for witnesses and victims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EOn that particular issue, I think now might be the time to raise the question of the role that court and victim advocates have been playing in our court system. I have heard recently that we have people of varying degrees of competency in those roles, but they have the potential to play a really critical role for people who are navigating their way through our criminal justice system, which can be daunting. A court, for most people, is a very alienating and intimidating thing, and having someone who is able to talk them, in layman\u2019s terms, through the process they will go through is an incredibly helpful thing, particularly if someone is a witness or a victim. Again, in the guise of looking at the role that jurors play and at their experience, it might be interesting to talk about whether we have people who are performing that role adequately for jurors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe second issue I will touch on is the one of allowing for exemptions from jury duty. Currently, if we are called up to be a juror, we are able to seek an exemption on the grounds of occupation, business, state of health, physical disability, family commitments, or other personal circumstances. I have used that provision of the law. I was called for jury service, if my memory serves me correctly, when I was working for the then Minister of Justice, and it was not at all correct or proper, in my view, to serve on a jury whilst I had that role. I did that in the same way that I believe police officers and their families, and specifically the spouses of police officers, I think, do not serve on juries. My mum, for instance, has not served on a jury. I believe that provision is contained in legislation somewhere. Those are all legitimate circumstances under which someone might seek an exemption, as is, I believe, the idea of seeking an exemption for a long-term disability or health reason. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI would like the select committee to consider whether, when someone is seeking an exemption on health grounds, which will be a permanent exemption under the provisions of this legislation, a distinction will be made between those seeking exemptions because of a temporary health issue versus a longer-term health issue. Will we still be able to make that distinction in terms of applications sought on health grounds, or will it be the case that generally if we seek an exemption for a health reason, it will be a permanent one? I would not mind hearing a little more about that from the select committee after it considers the issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI also note that new section 15A(2), inserted by clause 10 of the bill, imposes a duty on the registrar to excuse a person permanently if the registrar is satisfied that the person is of or over the age of 65 years. I have to be honest and say I find it slightly archaic that we would suggest that simply because someone is of the age of 65 or more and writes a letter stating that to be the case, suddenly they could be permanently exempt from serving on a jury. I think that is a bit ageist. I see members opposite who may be entering into those golden years themselves, and who agree with me that this provision is ageist. If someone is 65 years of age, in my mind that does not speak at all about whether they are competent to serve on a jury. In fact, if nothing else, at that time in people\u2019s life, often they have more time available to contribute to their community or community service, so why have we set an age of 65? Surely, if there are grounds, and if a person who is a senior citizen does not believe that for physical or health reasons they have the capacity to serve on a jury, they would be able to seek an exemption based on that criterion, rather than just their age. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI would not mind hearing the select committee\u2019s view on that, and I look forward to hearing members of the select committee, such as Paul Quinn, perhaps, coming back to this House and telling us what the committee has decided on those issues. I know he was not listening to what I thought was the very good point I have just made. I would be very happy to repeat it later, if he would like, or he could read the Hansard, because I know he is a studious reader of Hansard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c25d4b9fddf4ddc9f2c0b2c4adb3748\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the clause? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022630ea8f80c0045b7b5e5fe33b8f4b7a7\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The question is why someone of 65 years or more should not serve on a jury. We will come back to that issue, and I look forward to hearing more on that from the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EGenerally, the provisions about people on home detention not doing jury duty are simply a result of that matter not having been addressed in the original legislation. Otherwise, I look forward to discussing this bill again with Mr Quinn at the second reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u00226de7f24c62024f0e9c2400f85e35d9d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226de7f24c62024f0e9c2400f85e35d9d2\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E I will start my contribution with the point raised by the Hon Rick Barker that jury service should be taken as a civic duty and not an obligation. In my opinion, it should be taken as an opportunity to participate in the judicial system without one having to be a lawyer. I know someone who once served as a juror, and since then she has been encouraging others to go and participate. Participation gives us the opportunity to know about the judicial system, and it is very interesting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe Juries (Jury Service and Protection of Particulars of Jury List Information) Amendment Bill gives protection to members of a jury. The bill includes amendments whose purpose is to improve the jury system\u2019s integrity or to help to maintain jurors\u2019 privacy, safety, and security. These amendments prevent certain people from serving as jurors if at any time within the preceding 5 years they have been sentenced to home detention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe bill empowers the registrar to excuse permanently from jury service people with chronic ill health and permanent disability. The most important aspect of this bill is to protect more rigorously the safety of jurors. Their addresses, particularly, should be protected. The George Baker case has highlighted the need to further contain access to information. As a member of the Justice and Electoral Committee I look forward to participating in the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003ESince National has taken over, it has introduced many pieces of legislation to ensure that law and order can be improved. Latest statistics are telling us that there has been a huge decrease in the crime rate all over New Zealand. If we talk in percentages, the crime rate has fallen by 6.5 percent, and if we talk about Counties-Manukau, the crime rate has been reduced by more than 9 percent. It is important that we protect our front-line police and prison officers from any harm being done to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThis Government is working hard to ensure that law and order is maintained at the utmost level. I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u00224c3fa54caca14390b38de36c3fffa092\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c3fa54caca14390b38de36c3fffa092\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the first reading of the Juries (Jury Service and Protection of Particulars of Jury List Information) Amendment Bill, which is a very long title and a great headline. I should say that the Government\u2019s intention is good too. The Government wants to make life easier for jurors by ensuring that defendants do not have access to jury members\u2019 addresses, and to exempt certain people from serving on juries due to their difficult personal circumstances. The Government also wants to ensure and preserve the integrity of the jury system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThis bill is designed to improve the jury system\u2019s administration and integrity to help maintain jurors\u2019 privacy, safety, and security, etc. Labour agrees that for defendants to have access to jury addresses is problematic. This bill is designed to prevent offenders sentenced to home detention from serving on a jury, to protect the addresses of jurors, and to excuse people over 65 and people with chronic ill health or permanent disability from jury service. But the problem is that the addresses could still be accessed through other means. We do not think this bill will make any difference, as defendants who want to find the addresses will still be able to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThere was a loophole in the Sentencing Amendment Act that created home detention as a sentence in its own right. It failed to amend the Juries Act. This meant that those who had served or were serving a sentence of home detention could sit on a jury panel. People convicted of a custodial sentence of more than 3 years are barred for life from sitting on a jury. This bill bars people from serving on a jury if in the previous 5 years they have been sentenced to home detention for 3 months or more. It puts them in the same category as those sentenced to a short term of imprisonment. On the other hand, defendants need to have certain information available in order to challenge the persons selected as jurors. This bill ensures that a defendant has a right to a fair trial, which is a fundamental right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EOverall there are four issues I wish to deliberate on in the bill\u2019s first reading. The first one is that there will be no regulatory impact analysis or regulatory impact statement on this bill, because, we were told, the proposals as set out are expected to have no or minor impact on businesses, individuals, and not-for-profit entities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ESecondly, according to Cabinet papers last year there was an incident where a self-represented accused corresponded with persons on the jury panel for his trial for whom he had names and addresses. This raised concern about the safety of jurors, and it was decided to amend the Juries Act to restrict access to jurors\u2019 address details. So this bill is a great example\u2014Mr Paul Quinn may wish to know this\u2014of the Government\u2019s \u201Creactionary\u201D approach to the justice system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThirdly, defence attorneys and advisers to defendants representing themselves will not be allowed to show addresses to defendants. But, in reality, defendants will still be able to see and hear the names in court, so, arguably, they could still look up the addresses in the White Pages or, more conveniently, in the electoral rolls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EFourthly, currently the Juries Act allows people to be exempt from jury duty on the grounds of occupation, business, state of health, physical disability, family commitments, or other personal circumstances. They have to satisfy the registrar that they or some other people would be caused undue hardship or serious inconvenience if they were not excused. Further, the registrar must excuse people if they are 65 or over, if their religious beliefs are incompatible with jury service, or if they have attended jury service or served as a juror in the last 2 years. This bill allows that exemption to be used\u2014if it works\u2014basically permanently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EI had the great pleasure of listening to the Hon Rick Barker, who made a great speech earlier on this bill and also last night on the Sentencing (Aggravating Factors) Amendment Bill. I totally agree that both bills offer great headlines, but they will have little or no real impact on the real issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e95fab8e63544a74a5ee70ee1a29e51f\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: What, his speech?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207f22a66848f44c7bf9036a8e8c4a480\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Mr Paul Quinn that we are looking at two pictures. On one hand we are looking at headlines, headlines, headlines, and on the other hand the real issues sustain and persist. I have a huge problem regarding this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4dfe69f1a2442dab3c3debbfa9c4025\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Raymond, you\u2019ve lost me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d24a058cfbb54efeb4d23d392a524cb5\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO\u003C/span\u003E: I say to Mr Paul Quinn that it is an abuse of parliamentary processes to use urgency to introduce a bill that makes very little material difference. That is a question for Mr Paul Quinn to answer, as well. I wish he would take a call. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1c9aab2685147caabb72c68e3241c25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1c9aab2685147caabb72c68e3241c25\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to the invitation that has been extended to me from the Opposition, by numerous speakers. We just heard Raymond challenging me, and Jacinda, of course, is looking forward to my contribution on a couple of specific issues that she brought to the table. I am pleased that she has shown the courtesy to stay and listen to my responses. But I thought I might start with Carol Beaumont, who seemed to complain, and Raymond did sort of pick up on the theory about this whole urgency thing. Carol, young Carol\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022281b7021f4b94bb7b115c838b152101d\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member must use the full name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022066d15115e224a97a4e3d74683710f1c\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry. So is it young, middle, or old Carol Beaumont? I am not quite sure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289958ed3b5c246099676c589ae44565f\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s none of those actually. It\u2019s Carol Beaumont, to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dc823cfad514b95b9e670f44cd7c254\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Carol Beaumont; OK. But Carol Beaumont sort of attacked the bill. Notwithstanding that she said the Opposition would support the bill, she did attack it because she said it was a small bill, and, by inference, it was an unimportant bill. I really need to take this down to the rugby field and start teaching her some of the simple things in life, like the \u201Ckiss\u201D principle\u2014keep it simple\u2014[Interruption] Opposition members have great difficulty with that issue. They seem to think that the bigger, the more voluminous, the more airy something is, the greater the content. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003EI agree that this bill is a small bill. Let me just check; it has 12 pages. But it is a very important bill, and, as the saying goes, we should not judge a book by its cover. The same applies to this bill. This is a very important bill and, although small, it is another step forward in the commitment that this Government has made to improve law and order and justice in this society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003EI want to canvass a couple of things in the bill. The first part of the bill is around the jury lists. With this bill the Government intends to ensure that incidents like the George Baker incident can never happen again. That convict had in excess of 70 police convictions\u2014[Interruption] Ms Chadwick may well laugh, but I think it is a serious issue. George Baker, while in the back of a prison van, was able to attack Liam Ashley. That is the case we are talking about here. George Baker defended himself and therefore was entitled to look at the jury list. He then went about ringing up one of the jurors and threatened that person. [Interruption] The sad reality of life, and Kelvin Davis will know this, is that most of the people who do that sort of thing have gang affiliations. They get all their mates in Black Power, the Mongrel Mob, or whoever, to go out and threaten jurors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aba1e147437b470ca027f62adf39a5ae\u0022\u003EKelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: Are those your mates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b01146b923c41d2bdc78f8e022fea51\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Other branches of the National Party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a65857ae5150407d8616d13434886f72\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN\u003C/span\u003E: For Grant\u2019s information, I do have relations in Black Power. In fact, I have a brother-in-law in Black Power, and he is a nice chap. So I do not shy away from that. But the fact of the matter is that these are the sorts of people who use those intimidating tactics. This bill is aimed at ensuring that this never happens again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003EAs an additional protection, under this bill the only people who will be allowed to sight the jury list will be the prosecutor, the defence lawyer, or the court-appointed adviser to the accused, but not the accused. If any of those people who have access to that jury list pass on information that will lead to someone contacting a juror, then that person commits the serious offence of contempt of court. I know that Raymond is finally on the same wavelength. We are talking the same language, and this is great.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003EI now turn to the issue of age that Jacinda Ardern\u2014Miss Jacinda Ardern, the list member for Hamilton, I think\u2014challenged me on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022110faeb43585426bbb7df290520ed479\u0022\u003EKelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: Keep it stupid, simple!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022330a79f592334615b2b8baaca5538edd\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN\u003C/span\u003E: I did not actually want to call Carol stupid, so I am glad the member has. Thank you for that. In new section 15A(2), set out in clause 10, the operative words are \u201Cif that person chooses\u201D. The actual prerogative is on the person. It provides an out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003ELet me tell members that I have twice had the privilege of being summoned to do jury service. It has been a great sadness to me that, unfortunately, on both occasions I was not able to do my civic duty. I had to opt out because I think on both occasions I was travelling overseas, so I had to get a dispensation. In the same way, if a person of 65 years or more wishes to opt out then I believe that is a very good clause. With those few comments, I look forward to the Law and Order Committee considering this bill and reporting it back to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022 data-id=\u00226b6835de20194aa78a536d298a182c43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b6835de20194aa78a536d298a182c43\u0022\u003EHon JOHN CARTER (Minister of Civil Defence)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: I move, That the Law and Order Committee consider the Juries (Jury Service and Protection of Particulars of Jury List Information) Amendment Bill, that the committee report finally to the House on or before 8 August 2011, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), and during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, despite Standing Orders 187 and 190(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226984d661-9f65-4ed6-b29c-3285b598582d\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221afe348ebd8745c6bd80e724b572bd99\u0022\u003EStatutes Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224e12f53d8474437f8008bc172f835f06\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022adf7bbaf32684b8399daa7f620e42943\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adf7bbaf32684b8399daa7f620e42943\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2) be now read a first time. At the appropriate time I intend to move that the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2) be referred to the Government Administration Committee and that the committee present its final report on the bill on or before 1 July 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAs the House will be aware, the Statutes Amendment Bill is an annual legislative vehicle that makes minor, technical, and non-controversial amendments to a number of Acts. It allows amendments to be made that would not usually receive sufficient priority to be progressed. This is achieved with the support of all parties in Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe bill as introduced amends 20 Acts administered by eight different Government agencies. Many of the amendments are designed to correct drafting errors and incorrect references. I will give members a few examples. The amendment to the Sugar Loaf Islands Marine Protected Area Act 1991 replaces the misspelled \u201CSaddlebank Island\u201D with \u201CSaddleback Island\u201D. The amendment of the definition of \u201Clawyer\u201D in section 5(1) of the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act 2009 replaces an incorrect cross-reference to the now-repealed Law Practitioners Act 1982.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EOthers make unobjectionable refinements to machinery provisions, including an amendment to the New Zealand Railways Corporation Act 1981 to allow up to nine directors to be appointed by the Minister as comprising the New Zealand Railways Corporation. Under the current wording only seven directors can be appointed. The corporation needs additional directors to manage the increased workload associated with the 10-year turn-round plan, which involves the corporation investing $4.6 billion in its assets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThere are a number of amendments to the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act 2002. For example, one amendment redefines a state of emergency as lasting 168 hours, which is, obviously, 7 days times 24 hours a day, unless it is stated to expire earlier, is terminated earlier, or, indeed, is extended. The September earthquake in Canterbury highlighted that when acting under pressure the current wording of the Act is difficult to understand and apply for some members in the civil defence emergency management sector. This amendment will help people more clearly calculate the duration of a state of emergency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI want to mention two amendments that I expect the committee will wish to have a closer look at. The amendments to the Wills Act make it clear that the Act does not change the law about the formalities for making a will set out in its predecessor. The Wills Act 2007 modernised and updated the law relating to wills, which was previously contained in the Wills Act 1837 (UK). The intention was to carry over the law about the formalities for making a will into the new Act with updated language. Following the passage of the 2007 Act concerns were raised by legal practitioners, academics, and the judiciary that the 2007 Act had unintentionally changed the formal requirements for executing a will. If that were the case, the 2007 Act might have unintentionally invalidated some wills that were valid when they were made. I have received correspondence from beneficiaries who have been adversely affected. This amendment was originally included in the Statutes Amendment Bill for 2009, but was removed at the Committee of the whole House stage because of an objection to it. Opposition to the amendment as it appeared in the Statutes Amendment Bill 2009 arose from public commentary that was not available to the Government Administration Committee during its deliberations on the bill. I am satisfied that the objection to the amendment was based on a concern that the matters raised be given proper select committee scrutiny, which will be afforded by the inclusion of the amendment in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe amendments to the Charities Act 2005 include a proposed change to the definition of \u201Ccharitable purpose\u201D to clarify the circumstances in which amateur sports purposes are indeed charitable. This amendment is meant to address uncertainty amongst sports groups, funders, and the legal community about the charitable status of amateur sports and the consequent confusion about funding eligibility. I look forward to hearing the committee\u2019s views on this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, the examples of amendments I have mentioned demonstrate the value of the Statutes Amendment Bill as a vehicle for advancing technical yet important amendments. I look forward to the passage of this bill, and to working constructively with parties across the House on bills that we put together in the near future. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00227a2aecbda00641ddb0b117cbcf7f0fff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a2aecbda00641ddb0b117cbcf7f0fff\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E If ever listeners to Parliament needed to have it reinforced in their mind that this Government is full of bureaucrats rather then people who are going to grow the economy and get us out of an economic malaise, this Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2) would do it. The delivery of that last speech by Nathan Guy, fine as it was in content, hardly excited anyone. In fact, I think if there were 100 people listening on the radio to the start of that speech, by the end of it most of them would have fallen asleep. Of course, this really does show up National. If we look along the front bench of National and are honest about it, we see that the majority of the National front bench are long-term bureaucrats; they have spent most of their life in this place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cd673abcb554c379e16eaf17aeae7fd\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Institutionalised!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6dd40ecc5254b1d9ac9f4f5975933a7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Institutionalised by too many years in Parliament! John Carter is shaking his head, but he knows the error of his ways and he is off to the Pacific Islands. He is not going to be put out to pasture; he is going for a little sojourn to the Pacific Islands. I wish him well in that appointment and I am sure he will do it well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EHere we are again sitting under urgency, at a time when we have a $16 billion Government deficit; when we are into a second recession, or we are very close to it; when we are suffering an economic malaise that seems to be longer in duration than is the case in just about any other Western country; and when the Government seems to have given up on its objective to close the wage gap with Australia. Yet here we are in urgency in the third year of this Government, not discussing its grand vision for the economy\u2014because it does not have one\u2014and not discussing how it will close the wage gap with Australia. Even in terms of the Government\u2019s mantra about\u2014what is it, making front-line services\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022377efa2e8ffc4d3b879fb83d2e686029\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yes, moving services to the front line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285a28fb8fc5e4bc1b62f2ab7185fc110\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the closest we get to moving services to the front line is the amendment to the New Zealand Railways Corporation Act to increase the number of directors from seven to nine. This is in the same week as the State is taking over legal services. I am disappointed that this bill is not of more substance. I know that Statutes Amendment bills are meant to deal with issues that are not controversial and to tidy up little pieces of legislation that need to be tidied up. But can it be said in respect of most of the things that are being done here that they are more important than other Government business? How can it be important to pursue this when we have rising unemployment, and huge problems in the economy? What is the number of young Pacific Islanders and M\u0101ori who are now leaving school and going into unemployment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257e4ccca51db4b15abdf047a1fa38637\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: One in five.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b0e1a46175f4001929e5ebc97707084\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: One in five.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c994a0be55f4295a5517cdf9d8b114b\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: One in five, one in four.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df6706cc29f4478f9ba370f9f3659aaf\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is between one in four and one in five. Between one in four and one in five of our young M\u0101ori and Pacific Island peoples, an increasing proportion of our population in New Zealand, have nowhere to go but on to the dole queue. They are not going into training. They are not going into further education so as to improve their capability and to improve the future productivity of the New Zealand economy. It is little wonder, then, that more and more of them are leaving every week to go to Australia\u2014so much so that, as we were embarrassed to find out when Julia Gillard was here recently, Australia views New Zealand as a source of well-trained, well-educated, civil people who fit well into their society, who go across to Australia, settle there, and make Australia\u2019s economy thrive rather than ours. As a consequence, we are in the doldrums from economic mismanagement under a Government that does not have a plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn fact, not only has the Government stopped talking about closing the wage gap with Australia, it now seems to be promoting it. Last weekend on Q\u002BA when Bill English was asked questions by Guyon Espiner, in what I thought was a very good interview, he said: \u201COh, well, we are so far behind Australia in wages now\u201430 percent\u2014we\u2019ll give it up and we will promote ourselves as being a source of low-cost labour to Australia for when it wants to outsource things.\u201D That will have an impact upon the Public Finance Act 1989, because, as a consequence, public finances will be much more affected by that than this amendment to the Public Finance Act. Clauses 78 to 81 of this bill amend the Public Finance Act, but not in any way that materially affects the performance of the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAnother change made by this bill is to the Wills Act. From memory, I was on the select committee that considered this amendment at the time of the last Statutes Amendment Bill\u2014I was involved in some part of the process, anyway\u2014and I can recall that what the Minister says is correct and that an attempt was made to tidy up this matter in the last Statutes Amendment Bill. There is a tradition that the Statutes Amendment Bill does not take anyone by surprise, and the provisions relating to wills were very important\u2014we need to make sure that wills are appropriately witnessed because they control the disposition of people\u2019s assets upon their death. The change proposed was not controversial but it was of significant effect, and because it was introduced late in the process it was thought to be inappropriate by some of the interested parties, including, from memory, the Law Society, to include it in the previous bill. It was thought that if there was going to be a change of substance like that made, it ought to have a full select committee process, and people should have the opportunity to make submission on it. So it was withdrawn from the earlier Statutes Amendment Bill and it is now found in this bill, in a way that enables the Law Society and other interested parties to fully submit on it in an open way to the select committee. The Labour Party supports that provision and the other provisions being referred to a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EBut, having said that, and having dealt with how this bill does not do anything to advance the need for an economic plan to get our economy going forward rather than backwards, I repeat my earlier criticism that I think it is because National is bereft of vision. National pretends that it is full of business people but it is not, it is full of long-term politicians who have been here too long. There is the occasional person in National who does not meet that prescription, but we have more movers and shakers on this side of the House than there are in National. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e95d555356034f1d9ff61986adb55b67\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ve got gaggles over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1a809c059b44095a2e63751dccb11fa\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Nathan Guy is giggling away on the other side of the Chamber. I think I heard him admit that he is giggling, although I might have got the pronunciation a little wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAnother provision in this bill relates to the Antarctica (Environmental Protection) Act 1994. I have no objection to the Antarctica (Environmental Protection) Act being amended in the way that is being proposed\u2014but in urgency? We are in the third year of a Government during a time when we have an economic malaise and increasing unemployment. Criticisms are being made of the Government that it has no credible economic plan to get us out of this hole. More and more people are going to Australia. Why are we discussing the Antarctica (Environmental Protection) Act? How will that help people pay their bills? How much has the price of butter, cheese, and other staples gone up in the last year? Is it 30 percent or 50 percent? The cost of living is going up, in part because the Government has put up GST on those items, yet here we are dealing with these matters. It shows just how out of touch the Government is with ordinary Kiwis who are struggling to make ends meet. The Government is fixated on these bureaucratic steps that make no difference to the lives of ordinary New Zealanders, who look to their Government to improve their lot, and, if the Government is not doing that, they are rightly critical of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAgain, the amendment to the Antarctica (Environmental Protection) Act might be technically correct but it does not meet the duty of the Government, which is to work for New Zealanders and the future of their families, rather than to work for the narrow interests of the few that this Government so plainly governs for, with its income tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe support this bill being referred to a select committee, but we are disappointed that more vision has not been shown for the growth of our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022 data-id=\u00227b22d310834a4cd8a60a0f7ce9028aa7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b22d310834a4cd8a60a0f7ce9028aa7\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to speak on the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2). I commend the Associate Minister of Justice for bringing it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EIn all the work we do, the housekeeping has to go on; the previous speaker, the Hon David Parker, clearly does not understand that. I am disappointed that he said that this bill has no substance, then followed that statement up by saying how good it was that the amendments to the Wills Act was going ahead; it had been previously unable to when introduced in an earlier Statutes Amendment Bill. He was quite hypocritical in saying there was no substance, then saying there was some substance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225193efd06c504d4e9ea0f31fd03701cc\u0022\u003EHon Rick Barker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That member used a word, directed to a member on this side of the House, that was unparliamentary. She accused the member of being hypocritical. I think the member should withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c940931bef4e4dbf82d40fef79a39ee2\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes; the member cannot use those phrases. I ask the member to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e3d22a4e0a648668a596af13c656aee\u0022\u003ESANDRA GOUDIE\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EAs I said, the previous speaker talked about the bill having no substance, and then said that he was pleased to see that the amendments to the Wills Act were taking place. I was quite intrigued by that contradiction of terms and sentiment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f8c78b-f301-4aca-a936-366f00a26bc9\u0022\u003EI am delighted that we are making these amendments to these Acts, because we have to do the housekeeping required for legislation. That is why I support the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u00225eb6800020ba4ef197e3ea98898e6e05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225eb6800020ba4ef197e3ea98898e6e05\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to follow Sandra Goudie. I will pick up on a couple of things. Firstly, being in Government is about choices. It is about making choices about where money is spent, about how parliamentary time is used, and about strategic direction. We were told by Sandra Goudie that now is the ideal time to choose to do housekeeping. She said that the most important thing we need to do now is housekeeping. As Sandra Goudie was speaking a phrase came into my head, a saying my grandmother had handed to me: \u201CNero fiddled while Rome burned.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EAs we are sitting in this House, allegedly on Tuesday, hundreds of young New Zealanders going out into the workforce are facing the bleak prospect of being placed on the unemployment scrap heap. In South Auckland two or three families are living in the same house. Twenty people are living in one house. People are living in garages. They are shacked up in bunks all around the garage. People in Christchurch are facing a grim prospect of living in a broken house with winter coming. In the middle of all these major decisions the Government, as a matter of urgency, is considering the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe bill has some really fabulous pieces of important, strategic thinking! For example, Part 17 is about a protected conservation area. We are changing \u201CSaddlebank Island\u201D to \u201CSaddleback Island\u201D. Well, I am sure the poor people of South Auckland will go to bed happier tonight! They will feel warm and comfortable as they pull the blanket up to their neck and cuddle their teddy bear, knowing that this Government\u2019s got their interests at heart! It is going to correct the name of the island to \u201CSaddleback\u201D. They will be even further buoyed up, they will wake up in the morning full of hope and optimism for a new dawn, when they see we are changing the Wild Animal Control Act! We are amending the word \u201Cthar\u201D to \u201Ctahr\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afc1bfb9e648418fa288e1f703168369\u0022\u003EDr Rajen Prasad\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it\u2019s big!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284b3647202c640758932aec7b5bff95e\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is big! This is really big! When we come to the House and see this, we understand the vision of this Government. It is standing up on the bridge, scanning the horizon, looking to ensure that the good ship \u201CNew Zealand\u201D is navigated past those swirling whirlpools, past the rocks that would consume the ship \u201CNew Zealand\u201D. It is navigating us past all of those stormy seas, because we will now amend the Wild Animal Control Act to correct the spelling of \u201Cthar\u201D to \u201Ctahr\u201D. Yes, it is important to do some housekeeping, but we have to ask ourselves the question whether this is, in fact, the appropriate time to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThere are some other interesting things in this bill. I am really intrigued by a number of them. I made some notes. I see we are going to make amendments to the Marriage Act. Is it to promote more marriages, or to make them more difficult? I am not sure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dda001065a6843ffbd8b4b190d109a4a\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s about offshore marriages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecde96b4c69f42ecbd55d5f3e8935288\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is it about offshore marriages? There is something about people who are foreign nationals coming here who do not need a certificate to be labelled a New Zealand citizen. I wonder what is promoting National\u2019s concern about this. Maybe those members should explain it to us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThere are parts about social security, retirement, limited partnerships, and so on. I ask myself what the importance or the value of those parts is when we have a major economic crisis on our hands. We have had a sequence of major financial crashes\u2014South Canterbury Finance, AMI\u2014and here we are making tinkering changes to the legislation. What is the Government doing to ensure that the place is well run and tighter, apart from putting more and more taxpayers\u2019 money at risk? I ask the drafter of this legislation where the strategic vision is. What is it that we are trying to do to improve the well-being of New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EWe will also be making changes to the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act. I think those changes are probably a good thing, but, thinking about the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act, why is this House not consumed with not just the passing of legislation but the very important issues that underpin it? A major construction boom is going to happen, and what are we doing in this House to find the workforce to undertake that work? Where is the discussion about training young New Zealanders\u2014those on the unemployment scrap heap\u2014to get the skills to have the opportunity to undertake the work? We all know we should be doing this work now. Young people should be taken on today to be given basic training. They should be given their education today, or it should even have started last week, but no activity is being undertaken. Yet we are worried sick about having our sequence of plans in order and in the right process. Well, this is another example of Nero fiddling while the House burns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EOther changes in the bill are to justice legislation\u2014to the Judicature Act. I am really intrigued as to why they are appearing in the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2) and not in the justice bills that have come before the House. We finished debating a justice bill some weeks ago. We just debated the first reading of a justice bill. These provisions could have been incorporated into that legislation, but we have this piecemeal process. Instead of having one justice bill, we now have three. I have to ask what is happening within the organisation of the National Government that it cannot tidy up its legislative programme. Why are we debating three bills when there could have been simply one? Why are select committees considering three bills when there could have been one? Why are the public being asked to put in submissions on three bills when there could have been one, and why, if they wish to speak to their submissions, do they have to come to the House of Representatives three times, attend three select committees, and make three presentations when there could have been one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe doozy of all of the amendments is the change to the Railways Corporation board. We are going to increase the number of board members by a Statutes Amendment Bill because they have an increased workload over the next 10 years. What is the message that Bill English has been sending to State servants in the last few months? He has been telling them they have to do more with less\u2014more with less! But when it comes to the management class, they will get more for less! It is exactly the reverse. It is like Bill English\u2019s tax cuts: when one has more one gets more; when one has less one gets less. I think this reflects National\u2019s attitude. If the Government were serious about expecting more for less out of public servants, it should have said to the board of directors that, no, it would not give them more directors, that those guys are paid a very, very good salary, and that it expects them to step up to the mark. As the Hon Paula Bennett says: \u201CStep up! Step up! Do the job! Step up! And if you can\u2019t do it, move on.\u201D The board of directors has, obviously, complained about being overworked. They have said it is too hard, there are too many reports, and, by the way, they do not have enough people in the boardroom to have a very enjoyable morning tea, so they want to be given a few more mates. I think that is a very poor signal. If we are genuinely talking about difficult and constrained times, if we are talking about the rest of New Zealand having to work harder to make ends meet, then what is wrong with a board of directors doing more work with the same number of people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EAnd what is so difficult about a 10-year plan? That has not been explained by the Hon Nathan Guy. I want to know what justifies such a significant increase in the number of board members, when the rest of the Public Service and the New Zealand public in general are working harder for less. That is the message this Government has given, but for its own people, for directors\u2014who support it, no doubt\u2014it will make sure they not only have more directors but receive more directors\u2019 fees, at greater cost. Well, I think every group of cleaners in New Zealand would like two extra cleaners on the job, for the same reason\u2014because they have a big 10-year plan. I think every group of carpenters on building sites would like a few more carpenters to lighten the load.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa965169dc9e44ea8d7f857a797a4f74\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: A bit more work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295004b1cded4425f84e3f3d2eb545725\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: A little bit more work. I think every other industry would like to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e169410cd645497896187a2aa99c7408\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member but his time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u002206a5ec3603df4693ac3bf259bd5e3179\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206a5ec3603df4693ac3bf259bd5e3179\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E As other speakers have noted, the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2) consists entirely of amendments to Acts. All of the amendments are simply technical, which lend themselves to non-controversial changes to give effect to Parliament\u2019s intent for each piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EContrary to Mr Barker speaking for 10 minutes\u2014more, actually\u2014on the bill and making points that seemed to oppose the points that are being dealt with in the bill, Labour is not opposed to any of these changes, because otherwise they would not have come to the House. In order to be included, amendments must be minor, technical, and non-controversial. If any party objects to any of these amendments, the statute requiring amendment must be removed from the bill before it is tabled. None of these amendments have been removed, so obviously Labour does not object to them. We have just spent 10 minutes listening to a member who is not actually objecting to any of the changes that are being made. To this end, the substance of the debate would probably be more interesting if we were debating the changes that the M\u0101ori Party have not agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThere are just a few points that I want to make in this debate. The first is around the proposal that section 26A(6)(b) of the Citizens Initiated Referenda Act be amended to require the writ for postal referenda to be returned within 60 days, rather than 50 days, to allow sufficient time for the Chief Electoral Officer to complete the final count of votes, endorse the writ, and return it to the Clerk of the House. Ten days is neither here nor there, but in the interests of due access to justice we are of course keen to support this, to ensure a full and comprehensive referenda process can be undertaken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EBut I would just like to raise an issue in the debate regarding the possibility of electronic voting, also known as e-voting. Electronic voting technology can speed the counting of ballots and can provide improved accessibility for disabled voters. Polling place electronic voting or Internet voting examples have taken place in Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Estonia, the European Union, France, Germany, India, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Romania, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, Venezuela, and the Philippines. Unfortunately, New Zealand is not on that long list. I wonder why we cannot add New Zealand into that list, to trial both electronic means of casting a vote and electronic means of counting votes. If we already have the facility for online enrolment, then it would seem to me an ideal opportunity for citizens initiated referenda to serve as a pilot for e-voting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EAs the member for Te Tai Tonga, the amendments to the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act 2002 are also worthy of a brief comment. In essence, this reform will amend the Act to clarify that there may be only one state of local emergency in force, in the same location, at any one time. If Parliament were sitting in Tokyo, the fact that we have just experienced earthquakes, a tidal wave, and a nuclear meltdown would mean only that there was one national state of emergency. If we were sitting in Christchurch, we would have gone through two earthquakes, but there would be only one national state of emergency. The events as they have unfolded in Canterbury have certainly informed the importance of maintaining consistency of communication and the need for a coordinated, comprehensive approach. Obviously, we support this change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EConsistency is also a concept that we considered when looking at the amendments to the Hauraki Gulf Marine Park Act. The bill amends section 24(2) of the Act, so as to provide that \u201Cevery tangata whenua appointee shall continue in office until the appointee\u2019s successor comes into office notwithstanding that the term for which the appointee was appointed may have expired.\u201D This is a pragmatic response to issues that occur from time to time, between retirements, resignations, and new appointments. The M\u0101ori Party is aware that unless we set up procedures such as this amendment, there might be serious consequences for the work programme and issues involved in the management of the Hauraki Gulf Marine Park, if indeed tangata whenua representation were missing from the table. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EI want also to focus on issues around the Domestic Violence Act. I want to correct the gross misinformation put to the House this morning by Carol Beaumont about domestic violence prevention funding. Ms Beaumont suggested that there should be great concern about the nature of the funding cuts to family violence prevention funding. Actually, she could not be more wrong. In actual fact, not only has funding for family violence prevention been maintained at $11.035 million, as part of the 2011-12 funding plan, but in actual fact the announcements by my colleague Tariana Turia included mention of $2.8 million for a period of 1 year to support innovation and joined-up approaches to the coordination of responses to family violence. This may include responses such as community networks and case collaboration. So the funding for family violence prevention has not only been maintained but it has grown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWhat is different about the approach is that we now see far more emphasis on front-line services. In particular, the Family-Centred Services Fund will enable family violence prevention service providers and provider collectives to work more flexibly to restore family safety and family well-being where violence has occurred, and to help create the longer-term changes needed to prevent violence from recurring. The M\u0101ori Party welcomes this refocus on families and believes it is the right emphasis for our future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe amendments in this bill to the Domestic Violence Act will make it clear that a person may be taken into custody only for refusing or failing to comply with a police safety order if, after issue, the order has been served on the person. They also enable community magistrates, justices of the peace, and court registrars, as well as District Court judges, to issue warrants of arrest under sections. We welcome the move for transparency, and note also that it reflects the widespread ownership of the prevention of family violence right across Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EFinally, we support the changes to the Charities Act to clarify the definition of \u201Cofficer\u201D and to amend the definition of \u201Cserious wrongdoing\u201D to include: grossly negligent record-keeping, gross mismanagement, destruction, and misrepresentation of records. It is all good to have such specificity written into the law. There is an amendment made to section 5 of the Act so that the meaning of \u201Ccharitable purpose\u201D is defined as it applies to amateur sport. This will be in line with current case law, which provides that amateur sport is not a charitable purpose for its own sake, but it can be charitable if it is a means to achieving charitable purposes such as promoting health or education. We support all these changes, and we believe it is consistent with the wider context about ensuring the Charities Commission is more aligned with New Zealand communities. We note in the commission\u2019s statement of intent its commitment to enhance its responsiveness to M\u0101ori, Pasifika, and ethnic communities, and we obviously welcome this wider direction of change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThere are many other amendments made within the bill. So many of them are technical and should not have to be made, but they were made because of spelling mistakes, because of commas or full stops being in the wrong place, or simple typos, which should not have slipped through and in fact would not have slipped through if we had a better process in this Parliament. To this end, I am really looking forward to the constitutional review and to submissions that the public will make on whether this Parliament needs a second House to review what is going on, so that we do not have to pass through things under urgency, so that we do not pass through things that should not be passed through, such as a simple spelling mistake or a typo. The M\u0101ori Party is happy to support this bill at its first reading, recognising that further points of detail can be raised at successive stages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u00226e2d80f40438474f99774ef9adbec4dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e2d80f40438474f99774ef9adbec4dd\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Sat sri akaal. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker Robertson. First of all I congratulate you on your appointment as Assistant Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EIt is my privilege to speak on the first reading of the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2). This bill is an omnibus bill that amends a number of different Acts. It amends 20 different statutes, including the Wills Act, which relates to the signing of wills, witnesses, and the validity of the documents. The Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2) also amends the Charities Act 2005, the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act, the Companies Act, the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act, and the New Zealand Railways Corporation Act. The bill also includes updates, and definitions will be clarified and simplified for most aspects of these bills. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00222dcf49f1fe2746ac89639d3b09a16ceb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222dcf49f1fe2746ac89639d3b09a16ceb\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Assistant Speaker Robertson, and as it is the first occasion on which I have spoken since you have moved to your new, elevated status I will just acknowledge that. There is some confusion around the House about whether we are, in fact, blood relatives, and I see that today you are wearing the clan tartan tie. But just for the record, once and for all, I say that we are not related, although I do hold you in the greatest of respect. I thought I would just clarify that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI stand to speak on the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2) and, following just one speaker on from Rahui Katene, who spoke before, I have to take up some of the issues that she raised. Standing here in urgency, I question whether this is the best that the National Government can do, and the question that I would have thought the M\u0101ori Party would be asking is whether this bill is the best that the Government can do for M\u0101ori. I ask whether it should not actually be bringing to this House something that will address the appalling rate of unemployment among young M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d32b52704c074233a4be366d67de2b39\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: Highest since the Second World War.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219762948d28547ad89d01f241e9411f3\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Unemployment among M\u0101ori is now the highest since the Second World War. Where is the plan to grow opportunities for M\u0101ori youth? Where is the plan for training? We have had $55 million taken out of training by this Government. Where is the plan to have young M\u0101ori in training? Where is the plan to support young M\u0101ori into university, so that they can be the leaders of tomorrow? Where is the plan for M\u0101ori growth in business and for entrepreneurship for M\u0101ori\u2014where is the plan for that? That is the question that I believe the M\u0101ori Party should be asking of the Government, as we are here in urgency today debating the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe other matter I will take up from Rahui Katene is a serious one, and that is the question of funding for anti-violence measures in this country. I was the recipient of a letter, as were many others in this House, from Women\u2019s Refuge. That letter told us that it was concerned that $380,000 had been taken out of its budget\u2014$380,000. That is a cut. That is a cut to an organisation that I think every single member of this House would have respect for. The women\u2019s refuge down in Christchurch at the moment is having to deal with more and more women coming to see it. I have had Women\u2019s Refuge come into my office during the last year saying that it is full up and cannot take any more people\u2014$380,000 has been taken from that organisation\u2019s budget. It is the end of the Te Rito programme, a programme that Minister Turia used to champion, but not now. I am sorry to say that it is not correct for Rahui Katene to stand up and tell us that there have not been cuts. Women\u2019s Refuge wrote to this House. Annette King raised the issue with Paula Bennett and tabled that letter in this House. That is an issue the M\u0101ori Party and others need to answer. In this bill we have a provision about the Domestic Violence Act, but it is not the kind of provision we should be seeing from this Government. It is not a plan to address the reduction of domestic violence; it is a tinkering change, just as the rest of this bill is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe are here in urgency and I raise the issue, yet again, that the National Government has decided that amendments like those being made to the Wild Animal Control Act and the Sugar Loaf Islands Marine Protected Area Act are the urgent business of this House. There is one thing I can say for the Government on this: at least this bill is going to a select committee. In this term of Government 17 bills have come into this House and have not been referred to a select committee\u201417. That number compares, in the last three terms of the Labour Government, with one bill in one term, four bills in another term, and five bills in another term. Doing that with 17 bills is to corrupt the democratic process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238afee9f3aac44319fffadf2e8dabc27\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: What does that tell us?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e4a632e10f24d3397ee0519a1fd5111\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It tells us that this Government does not want to hear from the public, I say to Mr Horomia. That is what it tells us. It does not want to hear from the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOne of the first bills I debated when I became a member of Parliament was the bill that rammed through Anne Tolley\u2019s national standards. That bill did not go to a select committee. I ask what could be more important to send to a select committee and get expert opinion and public opinion on than a fundamental change to the way our children are assessed and the way that children\u2019s reports are given to parents. That is a major issue, and this Government rammed that bill through under urgency. It did not send that bill to a select committee. But today we sit here under urgency debating the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2). This is meant to be a tidy-up kind of bill. It is, as Sandra Goudie said earlier, some housekeeping. Well, as my colleague Steve Chadwick said, that is right; Sandra Goudie is doing the housekeeping. She is polishing up the family silver before the National Government sells it off. That is what it is doing. That is the kind of housekeeping this Government has indulged in, because this bill does not give us any kind of direction or any kind of plan for New Zealand. This bill is the priority. The choice that the National Government has made today is to bring this bill before the House. It does not provide any kind of economic plan. It does not help people who are struggling in New Zealand to pay their food bills, to pay their rent, to pay their power, or to put petrol in the car. It does not help them, at all. Here we have the National Government fiddling while Rome burns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIf we look at one of the clauses, perhaps we can see an inkling of a plan for the National Government. It is the clause that amends the Marriage Act. What this clause does is to allow a New Zealander who intends to marry outside New Zealand to apply to the registrar-general for a certificate that states that there is no lawful impediment to the marriage. This is another part of National\u2019s strategy of running up the white flag, because it knows that so many New Zealanders are going to go overseas and will need to get married overseas that it had better change the law to make it easier for them. That is it: run up the white flag on the economy. Bill English has given away catching up with Australia, and now he will make it easier for all the people who have gone to Australia to get married over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b07970bffb945059fbd6988083609ec\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Low-hanging fruit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225826d10c0424ec9979a2ae5a3133633\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is right\u2014pick it off. This is the first step in giving up on catching up with Australia: New Zealanders can get married overseas far more easily. Well, that is fantastic! On this side of the House, we think that we should be working hard to keep people in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a554138ecfbf4d7285157a6626b81499\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: And then they\u2019re going to bring foreign businesses here because the workers are cheap.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c7d2f0c94874b549dabdb43c5917fa6\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Horomia is absolutely right. Because there is no plan for the economy, only foreign capital will be in New Zealand and only foreign-owned businesses will be able to do that. On this side of the House, we believe that New Zealanders should own their own future. We believe we should keep assets in New Zealanders\u2019 control and build an economy that works for all New Zealanders, not the economy that this Government is trying to build at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of interesting changes that I think the select committee will want to focus on. One has already been mentioned, which is the amendment to the definition of a charitable purpose in the Charities Act so that it can include an entity that promotes sport if that purpose is expressed to be, and is in fact, the means by which a charitable purpose will be achieved. I say in this House that the Charities Act is an area where the last Government perhaps did not get all of the details right, and a number of other changes to the Charities Act might be considered. But again, we have a piecemeal approach to pick this one out. And why just sport? I can absolutely see why organisations whose prime purpose relates to sport would want to be included in a charitable purpose, but I have been on the board of charitable organisations that have struggled with the Charities Act and have struggled to be able to get their exact purpose to fit. There should be a wider amendment here, but it is a piecemeal, picked-off one thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThere is also another reasonably significant change, and that is an amendment to the Citizens Initiated Referenda Act. What it does is to make provision for the writ for an indicative referendum to be conducted by postal voting. That is probably quite a sensible amendment, but it is a significant amendment. It is something that will merit debate in the select committee. I will pick up another one of Rahui Katene\u2019s points in that regard. I sat on the Government Administration Committee for the last Statutes Amendment Bill. Although there are no objections to these clauses being put before the House, what happens in the select committee process is that we have witnesses coming in, we have evidence in front of the committee, and decisions might be made that perhaps we should not carry on with a bill. Although we are supporting this bill on its first reading, as we do with any bill that comes to this House, when this bill comes to the select committee\u2014if the National Government lets it go there\u2014we will listen to the submissions and make our decision then on whether we support every single aspect of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAs others have mentioned, there are some very small, minor matters of tidying things up. I know my colleague Ruth Dyson will be delighted to see that the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act will now correctly spell Lyttelton, which it has not previously done until now. So that is a change that I know she will be happy with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOverall, there is very little in this bill, at all, that will give New Zealanders comfort that there is a Government in place that has a plan to make their lives better. It is quite the opposite, in fact. We have a Government that has run up the white flag on its plan to catch up with Australia. The best it can do, as my colleague Rick Barker said, is increase the number of directors on the New Zealand Railways Corporation board from seven to nine. Increasing bureaucracy, doing the opposite of what it says it will do\u2014that is the mantra of this Government and that is what this bill shows us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u00222b7ebd0343214f5d8ad7943ba63e4c1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b7ebd0343214f5d8ad7943ba63e4c1c\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I again add the Green Party\u2019s congratulations to you, Mr Robertson, on your promotion to the role of Assistant Speaker. I thank you very much for the work that you have done in this House and will do in your new role. The Green Party supports this bill, the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2). It is a tidy-up bill, as has been said by other speakers. It has a consensus. The Green Party has a little bit of a complaint: why is this bill being discussed under urgency? Surely urgency is for discussing the urgent business of the House. It does not appear to us that the tidy-up amendments in this bill are urgent. They could be dealt with during the normal business of the House. Statutes revision bills go through the House pretty quickly, anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThere is a misuse of urgency in general that we are involved in at the present time. It would have been quite easy for the Government, which has called urgency mainly to progress the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill, to just extend the state of emergency, which gives it all kinds of powers in the Canterbury area, for a few weeks more. If it had done that, then that would have allowed proper select committee consideration to be given to that bill so that we could get the legislation right, if that is possible. Of course, the Green Party has opposed that bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003ETo get back to this particular bill and to follow on from Grant Robertson\u2019s speech, I say the domestic violence issue comes up in Part 8 of the bill in some small, technical amendments. The issue of domestic violence is also related to other problems in society. The more problems and tensions that there are in society\u2014the more poverty there is\u2014the more likely it is that the frustrations within a family will come out in the form of domestic violence, which has to be handled by social workers and by the courts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI think that is another reason why, to get back to the Canterbury situation\u2014I have friends and relations there, and I have visited Christchurch since the 22 February earthquake\u2014we notice greater tensions within families there. People face uncertainty regarding their futures. They do not know where their jobs are going, or where their businesses are going. They are in financial hardship. Maybe the insurance people have not come around to give a proper quote on their house in order to assess whether it can be repaired, how much it will cost, and how much cover they have, etc., etc. All of those things are up in the air, let alone the provision of adequate water, sewerage, and all of the other things. That situation is ripe for the creation of more domestic tensions and, potentially, domestic violence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EI think that is very relevant to the Government\u2019s policy, because at the moment a lot of workers and businesses that have been affected by the earthquake are not sure how long the Government will continue the income support system. It is due to run out in a week or two, and there is uncertainty and nervousness amongst people in Christchurch who are affected in that way as to whether the Government will continue the support until they really get back on their feet, in terms of full-time, fully paid employment, or in terms of their business operating properly on the level that it did before the earthquake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson also talked about the charities issue and the inclusion of organisations dedicated to sport under the Charities Act. I think one of the problems with regard to the Charities Act now is the prohibition, in effect, on advocacy by a number of charities. One sees that issue in organisation after organisation. The Government has never properly recognised that charitable organisations are often at the coalface delivering social services, often with money they have got voluntarily from the community. They are at the coalface dealing with poor people, dealing with disadvantaged people, and dealing with people who are suffering from all sorts of problems. They are in the best position of any organisations in our community to offer advice to the Government, to offer advice to the community, and to engage in informed advocacy. Under the Act, as I said, if an organisation is involved in too much advocacy, then it is not really deemed to be a charitable organisation. It is considered to have a political bias, and therefore it is knocked off the list of organisations entitled to charitable status. I think that issue really needs to be looked at and corrected. We want to have real democracy in our society, which involves all the voluntary organisations contributing to the maximum in the debate on the way forward to overcome some of the social problems that we face. With those few comments, I say the Green Party will support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u002237c1aed188904ed9bf628176d0a5a7fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237c1aed188904ed9bf628176d0a5a7fd\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to take this call, which I know has been eagerly awaited by members opposite. I am delighted that they have stayed around in such great numbers to hear this contribution. But before I speak in support of the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2) I will say this: I was on my feet speaking on another measure when the dinner break interrupted me yesterday. Mr Assistant Speaker, you were not in the Chair at that time, but you were when we returned after the dinner break. So I was remiss at that time in not congratulating you on your elevation to the role of Assistant Speaker\u2014in fact, your return to that role\u2014so may I congratulate you now. I say that it is particularly good to note that a fine member of Scottish descent will be proudly wearing a tartan tie\u2014albeit the wrong tartan\u2014in the Speaker\u2019s Chair. I look forward to seeing it. I have to say that being a sept of the Buchannan clan we probably have the most bilious tartan in existence, which is why I bring mine out only on very special occasions. I will do so on St Andrew\u2019s Day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI will return, if I may, to the contribution that was made by the Assistant Speaker\u2019s namesake, Mr Robertson, the member for Wellington Central. He spoke at some length and lamented what he described as a lack of direction and a lack of a plan in this bill. In particular there were some comments directed at the member for Te Tai Tonga. I have to say that the only thing really that was lacking in direction and a plan was Mr Robertson\u2019s contribution. It was very hard to see how on earth he reached some of the conclusions he did about a measure such as the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2), which has the support of all parties in the House. I make the comment in reply to him that the picture he was talking about in relation to women\u2019s refuges in this country is not as he described. In fact when there was some concern a year or so ago, I took the opportunity to go and visit the women\u2019s refuge in my electorate. It was made very clear to me that of course there are always challenges in operating women\u2019s refuges, and of course it is essential by the very nature of the sensitive work they do that they operate below the radar, but, nevertheless, they are doing a very good job. They would simply refute some of the criticisms that have been made about them. I acknowledge the contribution that Rahui Katene made on this matter earlier this morning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIt is good to see that there is cooperation in the House on this bill. Those who are listening or watching this debate at the moment may not be aware of the long history of Statutes Amendment bills in New Zealand. They are in fact a very efficient and effective way for Parliament to operate. I was intrigued when Mr Locke spoke earlier that he lamented the fact that we are discussing this bill under urgency. I simply make the point that of course the primary focus of our urgency at this moment is to enact the very important measures for the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority. The Local Government and Environment Committee is beavering away today in Christchurch as we speak. It is hearing from all interested parties down in Christchurch. I know that they appreciate that opportunity. They are grateful to the select committee for going down there. It is appropriate that we are in a position to continue with the work, from the second reading right through the Committee stage to the third reading, when the bill returns to the House tomorrow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EToday is an opportunity for us to make significant progress on a broad range of measures. It behoves us all in this House to remember that when we are inclined at times to waste the time of the House, as members opposite frequently do, then there will be consequences. Today is our opportunity to ensure that Parliament makes good progress. We did so yesterday and we will continue to do so today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWe should not be demeaning of this particular Statutes Amendment Bill, because, as I mentioned, these measures have long been used to very good effect in this Parliament, and here we have a bill that actually amends 20 different statutes. Those who are listening to the debate might wonder how one does that and why it is necessary, and the answer is that it is inevitable that mistakes are occasionally made. They are usually minor drafting errors\u2014sometimes as minor as a spelling error\u2014but it is important that when they are detected they are corrected, and this is an efficient way of enabling the House to do so. As has already been mentioned today we are looking at minor amendments to the Wills Act, the Charities Act 2005, the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act, the Companies Act, the Judicature Act, the Criminal Proceeds Recovery Act, and so on. They are all important measures that have huge implications, particularly for professions and for the not-for-profit sector in our community, and there are many others, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI want to ensure that we keep on track. If Mr Robertson believes that in undertaking a measure of this type we are somehow lacking in a plan or lacking in direction, I invite him to look again at what we are actually doing here. I cannot imagine that there is a single member of this House who would take issue with any of the amendments or any of the changes that are being planned, and I therefore take great pleasure in endorsing them and I commend this measure to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022 data-id=\u002244fc0b783c3a45dfb36e159cad96fb84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244fc0b783c3a45dfb36e159cad96fb84\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I also add my congratulations to you, Mr Assistant Speaker Robertson, on your recent appointment as Assistant Speaker. I will say this: it is wonderful to see a person in a job like yours enjoying himself so much. Every time you are in the Chair, or in the Chair at the Table\u2014either of the two Chairs\u2014your face gives the sense of a person really enjoying what he is doing. I commend you for that spirit, but I also sincerely, as a friend and colleague, congratulate you on your appointment. It was well made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EIt was interesting that my dear friend Tim Macindoe took time to tell us how to save time on something inconsequential, but did not point to the consequential parts of the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2), which we are debating today. My friend could have saved a bit of time. I say to him that the priceless moment that would be difficult to capture again was when the Green member Keith Locke got the call ahead of him. The look on his face\u2014I would pay money to see that again! But it was good to see him speak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EA Statutes Amendment Bill is an important bill. It is supposed to be non-controversial. It is supposed to collect technical parts of legislation that need to be brought to the House to be tidied up. As others have said, generally they tend to be non-controversial items that most sides agree on. I notice Mr Bakshi took a call earlier, and in classical Bakshi fashion it was brief\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a236a5d6e2e437bb1b10bb0b2c059f4\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member must use the member\u2019s full name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a232f9743f5a45ab81edb484b6d35d4c\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry\u2014the honourable member Mr Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi. In typical fashion his speech was brief. It is interesting that the House has taken\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b62f9e57d0c44f88a44893ec7cbf97b\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: But very lucid and informative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1afe63710e2450499e08663699801a2\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Mr Macindoe might like to take note of this point\u2014a lot of time on his member\u2019s bill, the Military Manoeuvres Act Repeal Bill. That provision belonged in this bill\u2014one short paragraph that we would have agreed on. An omnibus bill of this nature should address that type of provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThere are clearly many good provisions in this bill, and I will talk about a couple of them. There is the series of changes to the Charities Commission. We all know that the commission has in the past 5 or 6 years carefully established itself and is now a key part of the non-governmental organisation sector, the charities sector. It has made huge strides in how it operates and how it regulates, if you like, many of the charities. Its work is quite important. We have a number of amendments in this bill, and most of them are fine and non-controversial. However, some measures require the close scrutiny of the Government Administration Committee, and it is in the Charities Commission area that that case can be made. The amendment to section 40(1) in clause 11 requires the entity\u2014the non-governmental organisation that is applying to be a charity\u2014to inform the Charities Commission if an officer subsequently becomes disqualified under the Act. It seems reasonable, and, on the face of it, it is innocuous. But little amendments of this nature place quite a huge burden on charities. They will need to watch out, to set up a system, so that whoever it is who falls foul and becomes disqualified under the Act is reported. As to how far it goes and into what areas, there is no guidance on that, at all. Labour believes that this requirement could place a considerable burden on small entities. They may not be aware of it; well, that can be easily fixed. But if this amendment is to be supported, it needs to be accompanied by an awareness-raising and training programme for smaller entities. The second point is about the implications. If an entity fails to meet the requirements of the proposed amendment, what then? What is to happen to that entity? That also is something the select committee needs to follow up. A number of points like that need to be made about some of the provisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EBut there is another point about the amendments to the Charities Act. Sometimes an amendment under a Statutes Amendment Bill takes attention away from addressing more fundamental questions. This bill makes three, or four, or five minor amendments to that Act, but there clearly is a need to look at the definition of advocacy in the Charities Act. I agree with my colleague from the Greens Keith Locke, who raised this point, as well. It is a problem, because the National Council of Women and a number of other major charities have been unable to be registered as charities, yet who would argue in this House that the work they do is not charitable? Therefore, they ought to be caught by the Charities Act. That is a major area that the Associate Minister of Justice has not taken up, and he is not likely to do so until the 2015 review of that particular Act, but its implications are serious now. The opportunity to address more fundamental questions has not been taken up. By making minor amendments of the type that are being made here, we lose that opportunity, and it will be some time before we get it back. In any case, even the changes that are being made here to the Charities Act have some implications, and the select committee will need to examine them, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThere are many other minor changes in this bill that my colleagues have referred to. I am interested in one change to do with the Marriage Act. It really says that one does not need to be a New Zealander to get a licence to marry. It makes a minor change, and I am glad that that kind of change is there. It reflects the diversification of New Zealand society. Many, many cultural and ethnic groups living in our society do not meet the present provisions. It is good to see a bill like this making that small change, which will be important to those applying for a licence. It also gives quite an important symbolic message to New Zealand\u2014and to this House, I guess\u2014that, going forward, our bills need to take into account the diversification of our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThere are some changes to the Domestic Violence Act. Again, they are minor changes and nothing to quibble about. But the area of domestic violence in itself requires a lot more of the attention of this House than it has received so far. Although programmes out there are under way to begin to address domestic violence in our society, we need to do a lot more, and these changes cannot be all that we will do. The debate is going on about whether our funding is in the right place and whether it is the right amount of funding. We tend to be very shy of actually committing to a programme of action that we know will need to go for about 10 years before it begins to make a dent in our rather abysmal domestic violence rates. We tend after 2 or 3 years to play around with the resourcing of those programmes. Some of the rules around that that need to be strengthened are not being strengthened\u2014yet some others are. That is another example of an area that demands much greater attention from this House not receiving that attention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThere are a number of areas in this particular bill to be taken up. They appear to be non-controversial but their implications are quite serious. I have spoken on one or two of those areas, and I trust that the select committee will take them up. I look forward to seeing that when the bill comes back to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002280ded27fd94f44899be96c5d453840bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280ded27fd94f44899be96c5d453840bb\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I first of all congratulate you, Mr Assistant Speaker Robertson, on your reappointment to the position. I must admit that you are one of those people in this House whom everybody finds very easy to get along with, and you are a tremendous servant for this country and for the people of your electorate. Well done on your recognition in that role. I think it shows the esteem that you are held in by all members of this House as somebody they can get along with and enjoy the company of. Congratulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221398de0857c94be5857fec5a99eecd5d\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b460cdcca57a4d8c9ff27f85eba9d74b\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: That is enough, is it? But he is a good guy. We are discussing the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2) this morning. A number of members have talked about it and said that it covers a lot of minor changes and technical amendments that are necessary in certain bills. One part of it that I will focus on this morning is in regard to the New Zealand Railways Corporation Act 1981. The change in this bill enables nine directors to be appointed to the New Zealand Railways Corporation board, instead of the current number of seven. The number of directors of a board is an issue that has been debated a lot in recent years, as people look at having boards that are more effective and not too large, but that represent a variation of views, skills, and experience. That number of nine directors is seen as about right for a large-scale board with a large budget, such as this one. Its budget basically involves the corporation investing $4.6 billion in assets in its 10-year turn-round plan, in which this Government has invested heavily in rail\u2014$750 million investment in rail\u2014to make sure that we get this corporation running effectively, and delivering to all New Zealanders. That change is important in the sense that it will give that board extra strength so that we can deliver on that investment\u2014that vital infrastructure investment in our rail network\u2014going forward. This Government has invested in that, to the future benefit of all New Zealanders. We look forward to that board achieving its goals in the very near future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI support this bill, which covers a variety of amendments to a variety of Acts. Some of those amendments are minor and technical, and some of them are very important, like the Railways Corporation amendment, which delivers real benefits to New Zealand. I once again congratulate you, Ross, on your appointment. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00222639e8faeb6e421cafbd62ad40335210\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222639e8faeb6e421cafbd62ad40335210\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Associate Minister of Justice: Before I start, I congratulate you, Mr Assistant Speaker Robertson, on your elevation. It is nice to have you back in the Chair. I move, That the Government Administration Committee consider the Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2), and that the committee report finally to the House on or before 1 July 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002244fe50e1cb1346998c48373701a3948c\u0022\u003EAuditor Regulation and External Reporting Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a673f8fd7d740b59bbb2c9aceb93f10\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022db9dd00dc92c44ec9241555c5ff08b94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db9dd00dc92c44ec9241555c5ff08b94\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Commerce: I move, That the Auditor Regulation and External Reporting Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe bill proposes two major changes. First, it will consolidate all financial reporting and auditing and assurance standards setting within a single Crown entity, to be called the External Reporting Board. The board will replace the Accounting Standards Review Board from 1 July 2011. In consideration of the bill, the Commerce Committee has not recommended any major changes to the Accounting Standards Review Board and the External Reporting Board - related provisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003ESecond, the bill will introduce auditor licensing for issuer audits. Specifically, the bill recognises that audits of companies that manage substantial public investments, or otherwise obtain large amounts of money from the public, must be performed by the top members of the auditing profession. The need for this change has been highlighted by finance company audit failures. In 2009 the Registrar of Companies expressed concerns about the capability of some of the auditors and audit firms to carry out finance company audits to the required standard. In the last 6 months the disciplinary tribunal of the New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants has made orders against four members who, between them, led five failed finance company audits. The tribunal found that those audits were not carried out in accordance with the institute\u2019s ethical, professional, and auditing standards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe bill provides that the licensing of auditors will be carried out by the Institute of Chartered Accountants and by any other professional accounting body that may be accredited by the Financial Markets Authority. The Financial Markets Authority will set the minimum licensing standards, oversee the professional accounting bodies, and be responsible for practice reviews. This reform represents another important part of the Government\u2019s ongoing work programme to restore investor confidence in the financial sector, which also includes, amongst other things, the establishment of the Financial Markets Authority and the review of securities law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe Commerce Committee recommended a number of amendments to strengthen the bill, the most significant of which is to provide for auditing firms to be registered. Firm registration will be permitted if the firm includes at least one licensed auditor and meets any other requirements imposed by the Financial Markets Authority. This change reflects the fact that audit quality is reliant on two matters: the competence of the practitioner and the quality of the auditing firm\u2019s systems, processes, and procedures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EEquivalent changes have been made to the bill in relation to overseas auditors, which will operate in accordance with the principles of mutual recognition. The overseas regulatory system will not have to be the same as New Zealand\u2019s, but the Financial Markets Authority must be satisfied that the overseas requirements are equivalent to, or as satisfactory as, the requirements applying to New Zealand firms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe committee has also recommended changes in relation to the application of the bill to the Auditor-General. It is recognised internationally that Auditors-General in democratic societies must be free from direction or interference from the executive branch of Government in carrying out their core audit responsibilities. On the other hand, the New Zealand Auditor-General is responsible for carrying out several major issuer audits, including the Crown, Kiwibank, Air New Zealand, and the Port of Tauranga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe regime may not be fully credible if the application of the bill to the Auditor-General is seen to be ineffective, so the committee has recommended that it be strengthened in two ways. First, the Auditor-General would need to be satisfied that persons appointed to carry out those audits either meet the minimum licensing standards set by the Financial Markets Authority, or have the competence, qualifications, and experience that are equivalent to, or as satisfactory as, those minimum standards. Second, the committee has recommended the inclusion of a provision that would allow the Auditor-General to invite the Financial Markets Authority to carry out practice reviews and require him or her to take reasonable steps to ensure that the period between reviews does not exceed 4 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe final change to the bill I wish to comment on is the removal of a clause that would have made it an offence for auditors to not comply with auditing and assurance standards. That clause is not needed, because it is unlikely to contribute to audit quality. Auditors already have strong incentives to comply with ethical, professional, and auditing and assurance standards; they can be sued for negligence or face disciplinary action. The threat of substantial damages awards and losing one\u2019s livelihood, and the resultant harm to firms\u2019 and practitioners\u2019 reputations, should be enough to focus the mind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EIn short, this bill will reserve issuer audits to experts, and will substantially reduce the future risk of issuer audit failure. I conclude by thanking members of the Commerce Committee for their work in considering the bill, and acknowledging the contributions of those who provided submissions on the bill. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e56a98691a904be3bec461c0d150b7f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e56a98691a904be3bec461c0d150b7f2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I also congratulate you, Mr Assistant Speaker Robertson, on your reappointment to your role as a presiding officer. It is not quite the same role, but it is similar to the role you had in the last Parliament, and I congratulate you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI will refer to the issue of compliance costs in respect of audits. The Labour Party supports the Auditor Regulation and External Reporting Bill, but I still harbour a concern, which I discussed the other day in relation to some of the securities legislation, about the cost of raising money for new ventures. This bill applies, amongst other things, in situations where the entity that is being audited is an issuer. An issuer is, at law, someone who is issuing securities to the public. They might be raising money through selling shares or they might be issuing debenture stock. Those are important things that we need in order to expand our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn particular, the issue that vexes me in New Zealand is the cost of raising private capital for equity ventures. Small businesses in New Zealand face very large costs relative to their size when they take the step of expanding beyond the shores of New Zealand into overseas markets. That step is often taken at a time when those New Zealand organisations are quite small by international standards. The specialised good or service that they are selling might be quite small, in market terms, in a little place such as New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIf the company was based in a country such as Australia, the United States, or an Asian country, where there are many more millions of people, they could expand gradually in their home market before having to expand offshore. In New Zealand companies that want to take their businesses further have to expand into export markets at an early stage, and that is an expensive and risky thing to do. In order for them to achieve that expansion and not put all of their own personal assets at risk, they normally have to get more money into their company. In order to do that they have to comply with our securities legislation, which includes compliance with the rules relating to audits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe financial reporting standards in New Zealand and around the world have become hideously complex in recent years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf9f614db43d4718b504de874985b94c\u0022\u003EKatrina Shanks\u003C/span\u003E: So you keep telling us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229480d018b50b431ab8bd7db9f9a3190b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I hope that Ms Shanks will be convinced. I look forward to her acknowledging this issue, because I know she is expert in those matters, being a qualified accountant and auditor, I expect. The cost of audits has grown very, very significantly in the last two decades. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d52e59e3-2195-4c95-a654-665c11b39b63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022263fe35bab8c4176a6cb98660b73f56b\u0022\u003EHon Parekura Horomia\u003C/span\u003E: Rip-off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2e4c49d47a0494eaf645f8082c9d802\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think it is a rip-off; I think it just a matter of compliance with the increasingly complex requirements of accounting standards and audit standards. I question whether all of those complexities are justified. I do not think they are. I think we are now making the same mistake in respect of accounting standards that we in the legal fraternity have made in respect of legal court rules and processes, which have become so hideously complex that the compliance cost is becoming disproportionate to the benefit that accrues from the additional complexity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere is no doubt that we need to have standardised accounting rules, and there is no doubt that we need to have standardised audit rules, just as there is no doubt that we need to have standardised rules relating to the conduct of legal proceedings or to the sorts of things that have to be disclosed to people when they are borrowing money. I am not arguing against standardisation of rules; I am arguing against overly complex rules. We have now reached the point where accounting standards have become so technical that most people cannot understand a set of financial statements when they read them, because they are no longer simple. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c03f1180da0b4a5faf7ffd7f7362ef78\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Financial literacy issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8f14e2f29194c409313574afcef1cce\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: There are financial literacy issues, but they are made more difficult by the rules being too complex for most people to understand. We used to be able to read a set of accounts and find a profit and loss statement and a balance sheet, as they were then called. They were not perfect, but most people could understand them. Now reading a set of financial statements requires one to flick backwards and forwards to notes in the accounts, and it seems that we even have to report on things that are completely irrelevant to the state of affairs that is being reported upon. We see in accounts notes such as: \u201CWe have no exposure to foreign exchange risk.\u201D If there is no exposure to foreign exchange risk, why do we have to report on it? It is a nonsense. It is just an additional complexity that people have to fight their way through to read.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8188840283b48a2957b07f0a1de3638\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s one line. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f515e1d55034e00b2d5fd4686b42118\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is true, but there are many, many examples of that. Financial statements are now very difficult for people to read and understand. Those people are put to the cost of having to use an intermediary, whom they have to pay, when they ought to be able to read these things themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn addition, the company that has to comply with those rules has to use accountants when it would otherwise be able to do a lot of it internally. When the company uses an accountant, the time spent by that accountant on the job is much, much longer than used to be the case. Of course, they have to charge for that time, and therefore the cost to the enterprise is higher. That is true in respect of both the accounting standards, which then have to be audited, and the audit. The audit of the financial statements, which are themselves more complex than they need to be, is more complex than it needs to be, and therefore more costly. It really is a muddle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f43e27d4f2149a08c8ce24edf5fba75\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: It hurts your head. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281397fd46cb2499dacf50d14e4326e66\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is right: it starts to hurt one\u2019s head. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EClause 88 states that the functions of the external reporting board include the setting of standards. Clause 88 substitutes a new Part 3, in which the functions of the external reporting board, which has some control over how audits are carried out, are set out. New section 24, as inserted by clause 88, states: \u201CThe Board has the following functions: (a) to prepare and, if it thinks fit, issue financial reporting standards for the purposes of \u2026\u201D the Act. We need to make sure that the people who are on the External Reporting Board will be practical, rather than writing new and ever more complex rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe have this problem in regulation throughout the economy. The regulators want perfection. Perfection costs too much. We need practical protections rather than perfection, and therefore we need to make sure that the people who are on the External Reporting Board are not trying to eliminate risk. We cannot eliminate risk; we can only prudently minimise risk by giving prudent levels of information to people. We in the Labour Party are into alliteration this week, and I am quite happy to talk about the \u201CP\u201Ds. I really think that the functioning of this legislation relies upon how technical the standards become, and it will be very important for the External Reporting Board to have an eye on minimising the complexity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI will say something else about the limitation of liability; I know that another member will develop this issue. I think it is time we actually considered\u2014and it is a difficult issue\u2014whether we need to have joint and several unlimited liability in respect of auditors and audit firms. We have similar issues in some other practices, like law, where we still have joint and several liability for most partnerships. I think we need to consider whether that is right. In practice, it forces upon audit firms very big insurance premiums, which are passed on to the person buying the audit service and on to the people we are actually trying to protect\u2014the people who are investing in companies, and the companies that are raising money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe need to keep those costs moderate. This is another area where costs are getting out of control. Insurance premiums are getting too high because the level of risk that auditors are facing is too high, in part because of the complexity of the things they are required to audit against, and in part because of joint and several unlimited liability. I think we need to consider that. It is not an easy issue, because there is a need to have some proper levels of accountability and risk for auditors to hold them accountable for when they do not do their jobs properly. I will not pretend it is an easy job to get right, but we need to consider it. In any event, there are ways around it at the moment, through trusts and things to protect assets, so to a certain extent the joint and several liability in respect of all assets is illusory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u002260698f7b9f8647289e335fb65c6462fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260698f7b9f8647289e335fb65c6462fa\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak to this second reading of the Auditor Regulation and External Reporting Bill. I note that the presiding officer has changed in appearance in the last 5 minutes, but I also congratulate Assistant Speaker H V Ross Robertson on his appointment. He is a good man from South Auckland, he has worked hard in this House over 24 years, and he has served his local community. I wish to acknowledge his ascendance to the role of Assistant Speaker, a prestigious role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI will talk quickly about this bill. Minister Tolley, quite clearly in her representations this morning, talked about the nature of the bill. The bill is overdue. It is overdue because we have had a period when the non-regulation or self-regulation of auditors for financial issues has not worked, and it has not worked for several reasons. This bill will address some issues around the licensing of auditors, and the registration of audit firms, in order to get quality people behind audits. After all, it is really not about the regulation; it is about the people who are involved in auditing financial accounts. I take the point also of the previous speaker, Mr Parker, who talked about compliance costs. But I say that the cost of finance company failures over the last 7 to 10 years has been great, and that cost needs to be mitigated through oversight and through the regulation of this industry. This bill comes at a vital time to restore confidence in our financial markets, and to restore confidence in capital markets, in order for firms to raise capital easily and to build on the economic growth that this country certainly deserves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThis bill brings about two things. It is about establishing a licensing regime, but it also establishes and consolidates the accounting and auditing standards setting, set by the Accounting Standards Review Board, which will of course become the external reporting board. All I ask is that when these rules are set in place, the relevant regulators do their job and are well-resourced, and they enforce the laws that we as a Parliament set out. I think that is the critical part of this legislation. There is no point in having laws around regulating financial markets if those laws are then not enforced and the resources not put in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThis legislation, may I say, is part of a wider, broader scheme of laws we have brought to the House, which have had multiparty support in relation to the set-up of the Financial Markets Authority and the regulations of securities trustees. This is just another building block in securities regulations that we as a National Government have brought to this House. We are very proud of this bill, and of the work that members on all sides of our Commerce Committee have put into it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI will make just a final point about the limitation of auditors\u2019 liability; I think the last speaker actually summed it up quite well. It is a complex issue, and it does add to compliance costs, which we as parliamentarians are aware that we want to avoid and reduce. But at some point we need to do this. I look forward to the Securities Act review\u2014which will certainly be proceeded with later this year\u2014in addressing that matter; members of our committee found it to be a little bit of an issue. I support this bill and commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u002252234b378b20485c865e9686a184eac8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252234b378b20485c865e9686a184eac8\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Much as it is a great honour to speak in front of you, Mr Assistant Speaker Roy, in the House today, I was looking forward to the opportunity to add my congratulations to the new Assistant Speaker, Ross Robertson. I will hold those congratulations, because I have a particularly important message to pass on to him, in his role as the new Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0b4f83b9434434992a351048e851fb4\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t feel constrained!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e2f2cd3123f4169b853a2ecf5af27b1\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to put on record that it is an honour to speak before all of the Speakers in this House today, and I am looking forward to speaking before the new Assistant Speaker, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIn speaking to the Auditor Regulation and External Reporting Bill in its second reading, I say that there is one thing about the Commerce Committee: we do a pretty good job, we have robust discussions, we thrash through the issues, and ultimately, I believe, we are all committed to good law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe bill is supported by Labour, and one of the core reasons why it is supported by Labour is that it is part of that important financial markets reform process that was begun under the previous Labour Government. I need to put that on the record, because although it is important also to acknowledge the good work being done by Minister Power in this area in relation to the whole package of financial reforms, those reforms really do flow from the important work that was done under the Labour Government, and largely under the auspices of the previous Minister of Commerce, the Hon Lianne Dalziel, who happens to be the chair of the Commerce Committee. I think the point is that, ultimately, we are seeing a commitment on both sides of the House to good law being made in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAs my colleague David Parker pointed out, Labour does, however, retain some concerns about the bill, and about the way in which this package of bills is being introduced. I will touch on one of those matters in a minute, which has been mentioned by both of the previous speakers\u2014that is, the limitations on liability. I also endorse what my colleague David Parker said about the systemic issues of the complexity of financial accounting issues, which emerge right throughout these reforms. They underline these reforms, and underline some of the reasons for the need for the reforms. The areas are so complex and so dense that the ordinary person out there, particularly an investor, has great difficulty in understanding them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe issues about financial literacy\u2014and this has been brought to the attention of the Minister on a number of occasions\u2014are critical. They need to be addressed, but they are not being addressed by this Government, as we see it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe bill strengthens the regulation of practitioners who carry out audits of issuers, reconstitutes the Accounting Standards Review Board as the External Reporting Board, and requires the Institute of Chartered Accountants to regulate auditors as a specialist profession rather than as chartered accountants. Minister Tolley in her speech pointed out that the bill really is about the registration of auditing firms, and that it will really strengthen the regulatory and legislative remedies for that whole area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWe support the bill, ultimately, because we want to see confidence restored to New Zealand\u2019s financial markets. The bill has been through a wide consultation period. There were a number of submissions to the select committee, and I will touch quickly on a couple of areas about liability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EInitially, I will talk about the liability of partners issue. In the select committee process we touched on two areas, and they are covered in the commentary on the bill. Under the bill as introduced, all partners of an audit firm would be liable if a firm breached the relevant restriction. The amendment proposed by the select committee meant that a partner would commit an offence only if the relevant breach took place with his or her authority, permission, or consent if he or she could reasonably have known that the breach was going to be committed, and failed to take all reasonable steps to prevent it. Under clause 8(5) of the bill as introduced, every partner of an audit firm would have been committing an offence if the firm breached the relevant restriction. The select committee considered that larger firms, particularly, would be disproportionately sanctioned by such a provision. That is why that change was brought in during the select committee consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe second issue was about limitations on liability. Both David Parker and my colleague on the select committee Sam Lotu-Iiga have referred to that issue. We considered carefully whether the bill should be expanded to introduce measures to limit auditors\u2019 liability, but we recommended no amendments to that effect. That was, ultimately, because our conclusion was, and the advice provided to us stated, that we had no scope for that under the bill. However, the commentary on the bill refers to the issue, because we recognised that some form of liability limitation would harmonise the New Zealand system with international practice. We asked the officials for quite comprehensive advice on the issue. We considered it quite carefully in light of jurisdictions that have adopted alternative liability systems, and some of the approaches that have been adopted elsewhere. I know that the relevant Minister, Simon Power, is not in the House, but I am keen for a response from him about his views, if he has any. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI will quickly touch on the alternative approaches that have been adopted elsewhere. There are four of them. The first approach is incorporation. In many jurisdictions companies and/or limited liability partnerships are able to carry out audits, and those limited liability partnerships are an alternative corporate business vehicle that give the benefits of limited liability but allow their members the flexibility to organise their internal structure as a traditional partnership. The second approach is proportionate liability\u2014that is, the court determines liability among the negligent parties, according to their share of the blame. That approach includes allowing the courts to have regard to the comparative responsibility of any wrongdoer who is not a party to the proceedings. The third approach is liability caps, which provide for the amount of liability to be capped at a multiple of the fee and/or a fixed dollar amount in relation to any one course of action. The fourth is contractual restrictions on liability. Under that approach the auditor or the preparer may contractually agree to a restriction in liability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWe looked at a number of jurisdictions, including Australia, the United Kingdom, Singapore, and Hong Kong, where auditor liability reform has been considered, and still is being considered, internationally. Some jurisdictions such as Australia have settled policies and laws, and we would do well to look carefully at them. That is why the select committee considered harmonisation. Other jurisdictions such as the United Kingdom have implemented reforms and are now evaluating their performance. Still others such as Singapore and Hong Kong are identifying issues with their current regimes, and are still beginning to consider possible reforms. In the commentary on the bill, we stated that although we concluded that such an amendment would be outside the scope of the bill, we asked to see this issue addressed in the broader review of securities law. The previous speaker from across the House, Sam Lotu-Iiga, referred to that issue. In particular, the select committee believed that consideration should be given to amending the Securities Act and replacing auditors\u2019 current exposure to joint and several liability with alternative systems such as proportionate liability or capped liability. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022572253fddda349e0a755e08a08228e5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022572253fddda349e0a755e08a08228e5c\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora koutou. I am pleased to take a short call on the Auditor Regulation and External Reporting Bill. We will indeed be continuing to support this bill, as we have supported related bills, in large part because they seek to remedy the damage done by many years of the wholly inadequate regulation of our economy. The lack of regulation has caused considerable harm to individuals, to companies, and indeed to the reputation of New Zealand as a safe and good place to do business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIt is clear that the wholly excessive deregulation of our financial markets, our business sector, and so much else in the late 1980s and 1990s is a failed experiment. It has done serious harm, and few people in the House would not have a personal or family relationship or a friendship with someone who has suffered the consequences of this lack of regulation or some sort of financial misadventure caused by the inadequate oversight of the financial and business sector generally. Deregulation and the abandonment of adequate and appropriate oversight of the sector caused serious harm. It opened up the opportunities for greed. The whole mantra \u201CGreed is good\u201D suddenly became a good thing. It created opportunities for people to be exploited by the unscrupulous. It made those who were trusting vulnerable to being exploited, and often, unfortunately, such things as celebrity endorsements led people astray. There was a general lack of financial literacy, which has been referred to by previous speakers, even on the part of those who were active participants in the market. So it is good to see that some serious attention and efforts are being made to put back into place some appropriate regulation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIn the bigger picture, clearly, New Zealand is not alone in this. There is an international acknowledgment that lack of regulation, or an unregulated free market, is actually a recipe for financial, social, and environmental disaster, and steps are being taken to remedy that. There will not be a substantial return of confidence in the financial markets until such time as people see a sensible and coherent regulatory framework in place, to ensure there is transparency and a degree of comfort in investing and being in business. Although I am not denying there will always be risk, and that that is simply a matter of business reality, I believe that unregulated markets put the risk beyond what is acceptable, or normal, or reasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EWe acknowledge that this bill is one of a series of interrelated bills that are making their journey through the House in a series of fits and starts. It is to the credit of this Government, in fact, that it is engaging positively with this issue, and indeed it is also a credit to the previous Government, who initiated some of these measures that are now coming towards some fruition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EA particular example of one amendment in this bill recommended by the select committee is the amendment to strike more of a balance between the responsibility of individual practitioners and that of firms within which they work, and this was commented on by the previous speaker. Clearly, financial competency and integrity of the individual is critical, and there is a personal responsibility\u2014an absolute responsibility\u2014on practitioners to operate and exercise competence and integrity in an ethical approach. It is equally important that the policies, and, more critically indeed, the practices of firms are equally in line with establishing regulation and transparency, because not only the policies but the embedded practice affect behaviours in the market, and that is as important as policy and legislation. The step to achieve that better balance is important, and it is a useful element of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EClearly, progress is being made but we are still a long way short of exploiting and capturing a much broader opportunity to invest in change, to get beyond short-term and quite limited thinking about how to make our economic prospects better, to look for means and practices where we can survive and flourish economically, and, at the same time, to reduce any adverse social and environmental effect of business and practice in business. What is really required here, and what is actually emerging internationally\u2014an area that I think we are a little slow in following\u2014is a debate, starting from first principles, on the purpose and form of our economy, and on some of the base assumptions underpinning it. That debate needs to occur here and as a matter of urgency if we are not soon to discover that the remedial measures we are seeing in this and other bills, as beneficial as they are, are really inadequate. They are far from sufficient, other than as interim provisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThere is a very real and very positive opportunity for the Government to show some leadership: to take the opportunity to encourage and, over time, even oblige practitioners to adopt what is emerging as best practice internationally; to bring together, alongside and as part of financial reporting, the reporting on environmental and social information; and to bring those into accounting standards and practice. Globally, a major thrust in accounting standards and practice is to bring those financial, environmental, social, and governance strands of good management into one integrated reporting system. Although I acknowledge Mr Parker\u2019s commentary about complexity in reporting, this system does not need to add layers of complexity. It is about adding integrity; it is about a more integrated and much more rational approach to the financial and more expansive reporting of business activity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThe accounting and auditing profession has always measured, and continues to measure, and to report upon, the flow of money through a business, an organisation, or an economy. The New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants, among others, over time has also looked at expanding the role of financial reporting. It has looked at, and had some hand in, developing various mechanisms and models for extending accounting and auditing practice to report on the whole of a business\u2019s activity and the effect of that activity when looking at environmental and social cost and benefit alongside the purely financial matters generated by business. That gives us a much clearer and a more complete picture of the real value, the real influence, and the impact of the business sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EThere is indeed an International Integrated Reporting Committee that is leading the work globally, headed by one Sir Michael Peat, a former partner in KPMG, and it counts among its members one Sir David Tweedie, who is chair of the International Accounting Standards Board. Tweedie was quoted late last year as saying: \u201CThe case for globally consistent financial reporting standards is well understood and accepted. It is appropriate to apply the same global approach to other aspects of corporate reporting. This initiative represents an important step on that journey.\u201D He is referencing there the inclusion of social impact and environmental impact information within regular financial reporting mechanisms. In some instances internationally it is becoming a legal requirement to incorporate social and environmental reporting. Incentives are being provided. It is probably too early for this House to legislate for a broader, more comprehensive integrated form of accounting and reporting, but certainly there is an opportunity to recognise the value of that approach, and to facilitate to provide some leadership and encouragement to the industry and the business sector. Already some of our major companies, like Zespri, are doing this, and so are some unexpected companies. Some of the major roading contractors, like Fulton Hogan and Downer EDI, are now building that sort of reporting into their financial cycle of reporting, and it is to their credit that they are doing that in advance of any requirement. They understand they are being driven in part by the market, but also by an understanding of the ethical, and indeed the practical, value of doing so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003EIn summary, these financial regulatory bills are useful. They are helpful in repairing some of the shortcomings of the non-regulated approach to finance and the economy. They are enabling us to become more reliable and to improve the integrity of financial reporting. But we need to take bolder moves, and I believe that it would be to the Government\u2019s credit, and that it would gain value from making some moves, to improve the understanding of the social and environmental impacts of business as well as the financial impacts and consequences of business. We could very easily improve our performance across all of those spheres of influence. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2da80e7c78b44e299fac03d331361eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2da80e7c78b44e299fac03d331361eb\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for this opportunity to speak at the second reading of the Auditor Regulation and External Reporting Bill. This bill strengthens the regulation of practitioners who carry out audits of issuers. It will require the New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants to regulate auditors as a specialist profession, rather than as chartered accountants. It also provides for the Financial Markets Authority to be responsible for auditor oversight in monitoring and reporting on the adequacy and effectiveness of the institute\u2019s regulatory systems. This should assist to promote, in respect of issuer audits, quality, expertise, and integrity in the profession of auditors, and to promote the recognition of the professional status of New Zealand auditors in overseas jurisdictions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWe note that a report by the Registrar of Companies identified that audit failure was a contributing factor in the finance company collapses. Without putting too fine a point on it, this whole issue of financial company collapse is of particular concern to us in the south\u2014and to my constituents of Te Tai Tonga. I have spoken out about the concerns we in the M\u0101ori Party have with South Canterbury Finance falling into such a position to result in a massive Government bailout, funding that could have been much better spent on reducing poverty. I have challenged the board and management of the company\u2014the people who caused the mess\u2014to take ownership, and work towards creating solutions. But I am also ready to note the widespread issues of ownership and responsibility that we must consider around the finance company collapses\u2014including, as this legislation highlights, the role of the auditor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EAuditor quality is a core element of financial market confidence, and, by logical association, a core element in restoring investor confidence. It is essential that the practitioners who carry out financial sector audits have the necessary skills and experience to carry out the work to a high standard. So we are, of course, supportive of the need to have the means by which to report on the adequacy and effectiveness of those systems, and to take action in respect of those systems that are inadequate or ineffective. The bill is consistent with the party\u2019s emphasis on improving the performance of Government bodies and professional bodies. It also assists to restore the confidence of New Zealand investors in securities. We will support this bill at its second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u0022672b224499274d708b1a656e300c6323\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022672b224499274d708b1a656e300c6323\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to take a call on the second reading of the Auditor Regulation and External Reporting Bill. It was interesting to sit on the Commerce Committee, which dealt with this bill. I am a chartered accountant by trade. Also, I came up through the Audit Office. That was where I started in my profession. So I had a good understanding of the implications of this bill and what people were talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EWe talked about capital markets. This bill will influence capital markets, because it is addressed to audits of public issuers. It has a very narrow focus. We have a problem with confidence in our capital markets, especially among our mum and dad investors. I know that in the \u014Chariu electorate a lot of mum and dad investors come into my office and tell me stories about how they lost their money. They are concerned about what they can do in the future. They want to know what the Government can do to help them find somewhere to invest that gives slightly higher returns than a bank does. But, of course, we know that when we get into that situation we take on additional risk. In effect, this measure has been partly brought about by the finance company failures. It is acknowledgment that the role of auditors did play a small part in terms of validating accounts and financial information to people who most probably did not quite understand what they were reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EIt is interesting that the Greens have raised the issue of social reporting and financial reporting. The more reporting that is put in, the more complex it gets, because for every report that is produced there is an opinion on it, especially if we are talking about a public issuer. If we want to have social reporting and all the other tiers of reporting, which are really great to have, we should consider that someone has to give an opinion on it, on whether it is true and fair. That is where it gets more complex. That is where the accounting standards get more complex. I know that Mr David \u201CPerfect\u201D Parker, which is what we call him in our select committee, asked why it is getting so complex. It is getting so complex because there are more requirements in relation to those accounts, and the more requirements there are, the more standards and procedures we need in place to ensure that the reporting is correct. It is never-ending. It gets more and more complex. As the financial vehicles out there get more complex, we need more rules in place, more standards and procedures, to understand what is happening when we invest in financial vehicles that have never been in place before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EI would like to touch on two areas of this bill during this second reading. One is the liability of partners. There was concern that under the bill as introduced every partner of an audit firm would commit an offence if there was a breach of any restriction or standard. The committee thought that was far too wide, so we narrowed it down to say that a partner was liable only if he or she had given his or her authority, permission, or consent, or could reasonably have known that the breach was going to be committed and failed to take reasonable steps to prevent it. We narrowed that provision down significantly; otherwise, I think we would find that there were no auditors out there to audit anything at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe other thing I was really passionate about in our committee was the issue of limitations on liability. Currently in New Zealand we have what is known as joint and several liability for auditors. I think it is time we addressed the whole issue of liability and limitations on liability. I pushed very hard at our select committee for this issue to be addressed. We got advice on several occasions\u2014because we kept on pushing it\u2014only to be told it was out of scope. The committee has stated in the bill\u2019s commentary that we would like this matter to be addressed later on, and that a broader review of the securities law should be looked at, especially in relation to exposure to joint and several liability and the alternative systems of proportionate or capped liability that other countries are using very successfully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EI am taking just a short call on this bill and I look forward to debating it further in the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9666c4e8fd9432da1c365766cf170bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9666c4e8fd9432da1c365766cf170bd\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is with interest that I hear Government members say that these bills are so important for our capital markets and our financial markets, yet they have very little to say on them. I should have thought that if this bill was such an important bill, which I personally think it is, then Government members would stand up and put forward the case for why this legislation should go through, and would be selling it, etc. But they do not seem to be doing that, and I wonder why. I wonder whether it is because Government members do not understand what the legislation is about or how it impacts on New Zealanders, the economy, or the financial market. There does not seem to be any coordinated plan at all. But I stand in support of this bill, the Auditor Regulation and External Reporting Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI note that it is another bill sponsored by the Hon Simon Power. As Simon Bridges informed us a week or so ago, Simon Power is the hardest-working National Minister. In fact, I think Simon Bridges told us that 40 percent of all legislation before the House this term has been brought forward by Simon Power. I had a look at the Order Paper today and five of the bills on the Order Paper are in the name of Simon Power. The Statutes Amendment Bill (No 2) is in the name of Nathan Guy. I assume that Simon Power handed that bill over to Nathan because Nathan Guy actually has not done anything while he has been a Minister. But it is with concern that I note\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022205147b26af44d2abe1106e81a073dc8\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: He did order the BMWs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9c806f0435d4328a72bbb820522e905\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there was the BMWs. I suspect that Government members must be incredibly worried that Simon Power is leaving. I do not know why he is leaving, but I suspect it is because he is sick and tired of carrying the Government on his shoulders. He does 40 percent of the legislation in this House and he is leaving. He is a very hard-working Minister. Of course, there have been rumours about a clash between Simon Power and Steven Joyce. I could not possibly comment, even though National members have confirmed it. It is not for me to comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EEven though we have a very hard-working Minister in Simon Power, the surprising thing is that when he came out with a plan, do members know what it was? To sell State assets. The only plan of even the hardest-working Minister on the Cabinet benches was to sell State assets. When is a plan not a plan? When it involves selling State assets; when it harks back to philosophies long discounted and long disproven. Actually, I think that is why Simon Power is leaving. It is a hospital pass: \u201CPower, you\u2019re leaving. You\u2019ll be the Minister responsible for selling State assets to the public.\u201D He did not want to do that, because he knows he cannot do it, so he is gone. If Mr Power\u2019s legacy will be selling State assets, then that is a bad legacy with which to leave Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI come back to the bill. I would like to ask why regulation of auditors needs to be reformed. It is a good question and I will try to answer it. Financial reporting is hugely important to investors. Regulators and other financial market participants need to know that the decisions made by experts are the right ones. There needs to be confidence that general purpose financial reports provide unbiased, transparent, and relevant information about the economic performance and position of businesses. As has been outlined, Labour fully supports this bill. Labour will always support good, strong legislation that improves the confidence of investors in our financial and capital markets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI have spoken about this issue before in this House many times. I cannot hammer it enough. Investors really need to have confidence in those who profess expertise in certain areas, whether they be trustees, directors, financial advisers, or auditors. We all know that investment implies risk. The higher the return, the higher the risk\u2014that is how it should work. Most investors tend to understand that. However, the risk of incompetence and the risk of negligence are almost impossible to quantify, and therefore they are not risks that investors can plan for\u2014nor should they have to, and certainly not in a First World country such as New Zealand. If we want to have a great reputation in the global market and if we want to bring foreign direct investment into this country, then all investors in this country need to have confidence that our financial regulations are up to scratch, that they meet world standards. In fact, that is a given. It is not something we can go out and parade and hawk. It is a given, because if they are not up to scratch, then we will not even be looked at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand there has been a strong indication that the auditors of some failed finance companies lacked the necessary competence to carry out the audits, or did not have a sufficient degree of independence. The results of that have been nothing short of catastrophic for our financial markets. We know that over 60 finance companies have collapsed. Before that I do not think anyone could have named 10 finance companies, let alone the 60 that have collapsed. I do not want to say that every single auditor who was responsible for auditing a finance company was negligent, incompetent, or had a conflict of interest, but there is very, very clear evidence that many did. That is what we have to prevent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAs I said, the collapses have been catastrophic for our financial markets, but not only that; they have been catastrophic for our citizens. Over $4 billion has been wiped from the savings of good, hard-working Kiwis. These are Kiwis who put away money for their retirement, put away money for their children\u2019s education, for their grandchildren\u2019s education. These are New Zealanders who are near the end of their lives. When I say near the end of their lives it is all relative; they have another 20 or 30 years to go. But that money was their nest egg. It was how they were going to be able to retire with dignity, and it is gone. I cannot think of anything more heartbreaking or gut-wrenching than knowing that $50,000, $100,000, or $200,000 that people had put away for their retirement was gone. After working and paying taxes for 40 years, it was gutted by people ordinary New Zealanders trusted. People such as Richard Long stood up and hawked one of these companies. Colin Meads said one was as safe as houses. Unfortunately, Colin Meads was a great All Black but he does not know much about finance companies. The health costs and the costs to our economy have been huge. There have been cases of suicide and depression, and I suspect that they are the tip of the iceberg. I suspect we will never know the health effects that this experience has had on a whole lot of people out there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBefore this bill\u2014and this is why the bill is so important\u2014New Zealand\u2019s self-regulatory model was no longer within the range of acceptable auditor regulation systems. New Zealand needs to change in order to obtain the right to practise in Australasia and other jurisdictions such as the European Union. In the United States a classic case is Arthur Andersen. People used to talk about the \u201CBig Five\u201D accounting companies; now they talk about the \u201CBig Four\u201D or the \u201CBig Three\u201D. Arthur Andersen was the auditor for Enron. When Enron collapsed it brought down one of the largest accountancy companies in the world. At that time the US undertook a complete review of the relationship between auditors and those they audited. We probably should have done that when Enron collapsed. As we all know, that work was started under Lianne Dalziel, and it has been continued by the Commerce Committee. I am not on that select committee, but it has been continued by that committee and it is long overdue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAs has been mentioned, the bill is a complex and detailed piece of legislation. It is over 100 pages. Who would have believed that a bill governing what auditors do would be over 100 pages? There are nearly 100 clauses in the bill. It is very complex legislation. It shows how complex the role of auditing is. It proves how defunct our law is in terms of governing that area. To round up, Labour supports any legislation that will improve the confidence of investors in our capital and financial markets. Labour will support any legislation that means foreigners will look at our financial and capital markets and invest with a high degree of confidence. But one thing I would like to say is that the Hon Simon Power, the Minister who brought this bill to the House, is a very hard-working Minister, but he is also the Minister who has introduced the concept of selling State assets. I ask what sort of plan that is\u2014to sell State assets. It is a shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u00229fea304db11842d8bbaf04ca17650076\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fea304db11842d8bbaf04ca17650076\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to stand in support of the Auditor Regulation and External Reporting Bill, and I am pleased to hear members on the other side of the House likewise doing so. I must admit that Mr Nash\u2019s speech improved until he came to the last couple of sentences. The first half of his speech, of course, was full of what is now becoming a predictable knocking of some of our hard-working Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe reason this bill is very important is simply that trading, which is what this is all about, requires an accurate quantifying of weights and measures, and our auditors are our measurers. It is incredibly important that what they do is accurate, transparent, robust, and independent, and this bill will ensure that. As the previous speaker and other speakers have alluded to, I think that the numbers of financial companies who have experienced demise at the tremendous expense of New Zealand investors were not strongly serviced by a robust auditing regime. This bill will ensure that in terms of our future we are robust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIt is very important to understand that the $4 billion to $6 billion that has been lost out of our economy has been lost by people who tremendously relied upon it, such as the many people who have entered retirement. It is very important to understand that in this nation in the next 20 years more of those people will be in retirement. In fact, our retirement numbers will double. It is imperative that we have financial systems in place that will never ever allow what has happened to happen again. Our future depends on a robustness of transparency and accountability, and it depends upon the ability to have internationalisation of standards because so many of our opportunities are global. It is important to realise that currently six people are supporting one elderly person, but in a very short time there will be just three people providing that support. Therefore, having a robust financial system and having strong capital markets will be incredibly important. It is not just a matter of increasing taxation to care for our increasing ageing population. We need to have an incredibly robust economy that is growing strongly, and this Government is focusing strongly on that in order to have the wealth in our nation to enable young and old to experience the lifestyle they aspire to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI am very happy to support this bill, as are other members of the House. The Commerce Committee has worked incredibly hard over this last year. We have worked through a whole suite of legislation that will bring stronger and more robust support to our economy. I am very happy to commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022 data-id=\u002226f385fcbe304027968332b5fcee506c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226f385fcbe304027968332b5fcee506c\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E What the Auditor Regulation and External Reporting Bill does for somebody like me, whose field this is not, is make me ask why the regulation of auditors needs to be reformed. Indeed, just a quick reflection on what has happened over the past few years in relation to the failure of large firms, and the loss by so many people of so much money, has led to this piece of the framework, which really ought to avoid those kinds of failures in the future. Financial reporting is hugely important to investors, to regulators, and to other financial market participants in their resource allocation decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003ESo how are people to make their investments, etc., and how are regulators to operate? There needs to be confidence that the general purpose financial reports, the GPFR, provide unbiased, transparent, and relevant information about the economic performance and position of businesses. This bill is an important piece of the framework that provides that kind of information, and we would expect that to be the case. But in New Zealand, over some period of time, there have been strong indications that the auditors of some failed finance companies have lacked the necessary competence to carry out those audits, or have not had a sufficient degree of independence. Whatever the reasons have been, there clearly was a problem with our auditors that needed to be fixed. New Zealanders have relied so far on a self-regulatory model, and in many areas that works quite well, but in something as important as this, where the effects of things going wrong are so devastating on a large sector of our communities, something as important as this cannot be left to self-regulation. This bill has begun to address that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003ENew Zealand needs to change in order to obtain the right to practise in Australia as well, and in other jurisdictions such as the European Union, so in a sense we have to make our rules and regulations consistent with best practice elsewhere. The purpose of an audit is to provide assurance to investors, regulators, and other market participants that a set of financial statements is free from material error, because business decisions are made on the basis of those statements. With that being the background, and with that being the case, then what are we doing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThis bill, which has been to a select committee, and come back, strengthens the regulation of practitioners who carry out audits of issuers. It also reconstitutes the Accounting Standards Review Board as the external reporting board, and requires the Institute of Chartered Accountants to regulate auditors as a specialist profession rather than as chartered accountants; this is a major move. Labour clearly supports the bill and has been involved in the reform of this area for some time. We started the financial markets reform process, so we are pleased that this Government is continuing that good work, and that this piece of it is coming back and we are about to go into the Committee of the whole House stage on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe recurring theme that we hear in this particular area is the need to strengthen investor protection, and that is an important aspect of what this bill is designed to do. The bill creates an independent oversight system for issuer audits, with the aim of promoting the quality and expertise of the auditing profession, and of ensuring that New Zealand and overseas laws are aligned. That is very clear. Once it is passed, the bill ought to restore confidence in New Zealand\u2019s financial markets. As others have said, this is a complex bill. This is a detailed bill; I will not pretend to understand every aspect of it but I do understand what it is designed to do and what some of its key elements are, which have not worked in the past. When I myself ran commissions, we relied on our auditors to tell us that everything was indeed in the right place. At least that guarantee is strengthened by the provisions of this particular bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe select committee has clearly taken a very good look at this bill, and has made quite a number of changes, as well. In relation to one change, auditors were formerly regulated as chartered accountants, but this bill requires the Institute of Chartered Accountants to regulate auditors as a specialist profession. The Financial Markets Authority will be responsible for auditor oversight in monitoring and reporting on the adequacy and effectiveness of the Institute of Chartered Accountants. The Financial Markets Authority is given oversight of auditors, because with regard to the current self-regulatory system, which places the onus on chartered accountants to assess their own competence to carry out issuer audits, the finance company experience indicates that some practitioners did not make sound decisions. We are moving from the quite liberal position we had in the past, in terms of self-audit, to a firmly regulated one. Further self-regulation is no longer acceptable in other jurisdictions, so I am told; we need, therefore, to move away from that particular model to match best practice. We need to move away from this model for reasons of international recognition and international credibility, as well. Financial markets now operate in the globalised world and therefore those guarantees need to be given. Again, the legislation also aligns New Zealand and Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThis new regime will apply to only major audits. It will not impact on small and medium sized companies and non-profit entities, and that is appropriate as well. Issuer audits are targeted, because investors in those entities are most at risk of losing large amounts of money in the event of an audit failure. In a 2009 report, the Registrar of Companies criticised a number of parties, including auditors, for their role in the finance company meltdown. This bill takes a good look at the system, it realigns the system, and it changes the model quite radically from a self-audit to a regulated audit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe select committee has made a number of changes that further strengthen those moves. One concerned the proposal, I think, as the bill went to the select committee, for all partners in an audit firm to be liable if the firm breached the relevant restrictions. The amendment, I think, is a sensible one, in the sense that it really says that that proposal was going too far. Coming back from the committee, the amendment means that only those people who had authority and gave permission or consent will be the ones who will be caught. That is a good change of the select committee, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe Opposition supports the bill. It looks forward to the detailed discussion about some of the changes that have been made, and it appreciates the sensible amendments the select committee has made. The bill ought to give quite a bit of confidence to investors in the future that at least the audit leg of the bill, the leg that looks after investments, has now been strengthened\u2014once this process goes through\u2014and that there will be a set of rules and regulations, an authority and a process by which those who carry out audits will meet the standards we expect them to meet. On that note, I thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdbd3aa41b234272a056930fec1c3b12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdbd3aa41b234272a056930fec1c3b12\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I commend the member opposite, my dear friend Rajen, for his considered contribution to this debate. Considering that he does not sit on the Commerce Committee, I like to think that either he studied the Auditor Regulation and External Reporting Bill or he had really good speaking notes. That is unlike the speech his colleague Stuart Nash delivered for the Opposition. Until his last sentence it looked like Labour had a fan club for the Hon Simon Power. He did so well until the last sentence. I commend him for his positive contribution, recognising the wonderful work that our Ministers are doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThis bill is about licensing regimes for major audits of the likes of banks, insurance companies, and companies listed on the stock exchange. I will give an example that is non - accounting-related. One of the reasons the Auckland councils amalgamated was to provide standards across the whole city and to have a vision for the whole region, rather than those things being replicated over so many councils across the Auckland region. This bill provides that standard for accounting, just like the Auckland Council is doing for the city. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThis bill recognises the fact that with the advent of the financial market failures, audits of companies that manage substantial investments from the public must be performed by people who are the best at what they do, meaning the top echelons of people. It is to protect the moneys of the public. It is to restore confidence in finance companies\u2014confidence that was lost by the mums and pas of New Zealand who had invested a lot of money. With the advent of the financial market failures they lost a lot of money. This bill is part of what the Government is doing to restore that confidence. It is a great bill. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u0022999db31222584681b9a7d1b4b873fc82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022999db31222584681b9a7d1b4b873fc82\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E When people reflect on the progress of human history and look at the important elements of it, they usually start with philosophers like Plato and Socrates. They look at the great mathematicians like Archimedes and Euclid, and also they think about the great physicists, poets, and composers. No one puts on their list an accountant. But the fact is that the Dutchman who devised double entry accounting probably has had more influence on our lives than any of the others who went before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EWe are all subject to having sets of accounts and the tyranny of accrual accounting. This place is run on accrual accounting, and every Government establishment is run on accrual accounting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221877b4e63d9241a891c954e94d9166cd\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: Did you say \u201Ccruel\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f484f10420c74170af78e867f41696ff\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It can be cruel accounting. One of the great reforms of the 1980s was putting the Government books on to accrual accounting. Reforms have flowed from that. People did it at the time to ensure that the Government\u2019s books were accurate. People need to be able to rely upon the figures and to make judgments from them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EWe have seen some terrible examples around the world of where figures have, sadly, proven inaccurate. I draw members\u2019 attention to, for example, WorldCom, a massive company that collapsed into a shower of nothing, and Enron. Other major accountancy companies have suffered as a consequence, such as Arthur Andersen LLP. We have seen the global financial crisis, where banks have melted down and people have lost millions, and we have seen finance companies in New Zealand going crash\u2014all because the accounting systems were inadequate. The numbers that they represented proved not to be the reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225bfcbf3b5cc54fe6a64d0df02ad0e1a0\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d1f9645c0be8437a90fe0089c89070be\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228d9ab0288da8409192534e67bfd71d34\u0022\u003EPublic Service\u2014Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4b0f9fc3ca1412392d90ef41c7440cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4b0f9fc3ca1412392d90ef41c7440cc\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he received on the performance of the Public Service?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002248a9338212f34281b2a4df0a7fcc497a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248a9338212f34281b2a4df0a7fcc497a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Today Treasury released a report benchmarking the back-office costs of 33 State sector agencies, which showed that in many instances the costs of functions like property management, human resources, financial management, and information and communications technology are higher than international benchmarks or higher than those of other agencies. The report concludes that Government departments could save more than $230 million a year through greater sharing, standardisation, and automation of administrative functions. These are savings that we would be keen to see Government departments get on and make, so that we can improve front-line public services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebc242d85f2f4cdaaa76386cca736c49\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How will the report change the way that the Public Service operates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cdbf01399c54978bf12bd8fe7ebb543\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I think it will change it in a couple of ways. One is just transparency. The Government is not taking particular action as a result of this exercise, but is simply publishing the results so that everyone can see, agency by agency, what the costs are. Secondly, it will be the responsibility of chief executives to implement any changes that they see fit. It is important that they own the savings they make and move those savings to front-line services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa92fe70f7224f6bb100a764f8f3731e\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it necessary to find these savings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db63295173fc44e6b011e75b9c0ee967\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I think the reason that there is potential for up to a quarter of a billion dollars of savings is that between 2005 and 2009 Government spending increased by about 50 percent, which is twice the rate of economic growth. There is a lot of scope in the public sector to bring those costs back in line after a decade of extravagance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3f2fbf930a34deba9f814ff26380887\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What progress has the Government made in improving front-line services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253aadb7abcd542fbb7b308e8cc6505c3\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There are so many ways we can improve front-line services that it is hard to know where to start. One way that is published regularly in the newspapers is the quarterly reports on district health board performance across a range of health services, from emergency department waiting-times through to cancer treatment waiting-times. In addition to that, the Government has, for instance, lifted the number of front-line police, and that seems to be having some impact on the crime rate. There are a number of other ways that the Government is improving front-line services. We are not giving up; even if money is tight, we will continue to improve front-line services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e86185d435f2479da7dbbb2de4ebd4dc\u0022\u003ECost of Living\u2014Prime Minister\u2019s Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022 data-id=\u00226ccc0d77762248d7bf22939f893a0553\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ccc0d77762248d7bf22939f893a0553\u0022\u003EHon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement that \u201Cthis Government is working on two fronts to lower the cost of living for New Zealanders and their families\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u002279ad47be785b49ce97a99f35a37ca978\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279ad47be785b49ce97a99f35a37ca978\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes; because it is true. On the first front, the Government continues to support monetary policy that is focused on maintaining a low level of inflation. I might add that this is a point of difference between us and the Labour Party. On the second front, the Government is working to build a stronger economy that delivers rising income. Actually, that is also a point of different for this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd78b683b4724755bf94079dbfd14aa6\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: When the Prime Minister talked last week about this being a \u201Cmonster year for dairy\u201D, was he referring to the fact that butter has gone up a massive 65 percent in the last 2 years, and cheese 22 percent, with both due to go up by 10 percent and 12 percent respectively next week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275faa798c418493b9e46d4e283c7a148\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, I was simply referring to the fact that high commodity prices actually support the New Zealand economy overall in terms of better jobs. Funnily enough, I am not alone in my thinking in that area. I read a very interesting speech, given on 30 September 2008, and I quote: \u201CAs a net exporter of food products, New Zealand is a beneficiary of high international food prices.\u201D That speech was given by Phil Goff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224370f8678fef47ea94417a52ae3fe19d\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister recall saying in this House that New Zealanders \u201Ccannot afford to fill up their car or go to the supermarket checkout, and that they are going without, and why does the Prime Minister not do something about those people\u201D, and why was it the Prime Minister\u2019s responsibility for dairy prices and petrol prices then, but it is not his responsibility now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022451619114d394a5690553b1162b5e9e6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Because back then we had very poor levels of rising after-tax wages. That is because the Prime Minister of the day did nothing about it. I do note that on 8 March that very question of petrol prices was asked not just of me but of Phil Goff. The question from Corin Dann was \u201CBut is there anything you could do for petrol?\u201D. Phil said \u201CNo\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228efb8800aa8543e2bcf8db85e20ff873\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: When the Prime Minister claims that people are better off, can he explain this: how is a person earning $40,000 a year, who got a tax cut last October of $22 a week, better off when that person now spends that entire amount each week just filling up their petrol tank and has nothing left to pay for other rising costs like lamb chops, vegetables, cheese, and butter\u2014all up by over 10 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3bba8392ac541e98081ea9ca34f38b6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: The first thing that that person would want to do is vote National, because under Labour\u2019s emissions trading scheme it will be a hell of a lot more expensive. That is the first thing. The second thing is that I am glad that the member raised the issue of someone on $40,000. Over the last 12 months, these are the facts when it comes to after-tax wages: the average wage in New Zealand has risen from $39,518 to $42,214, a rise of 6.8 percent, or, in real terms, a rise of 2.7 percent. The last Labour Government achieved 4 percent in 9 years\u2014what a disgrace for New Zealand consumers!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4382a4c1fad461aa152a4dd89329951\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister still denying that the rise in the cost of living in the December quarter of last year was the highest in 20 years, as he did a couple of weeks ago in this House, or have his staff put him right, by now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e3fd13f845a40e29323a34dd0cff647\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: As we know, that included GST and was compensated for, for all consumers. But while we are on numbers, let us just look at the rise in food prices for all of last year. According to Statistics New Zealand, the rise is 5.5 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea0e02238bd7414fbd03430d652f5f1d\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is very interesting, but it does not answer my question. The question was straightforward, as you will recall: it was whether he was denying that the last quarter had the highest price rise in 20 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022697c9069bd324e08878f591031adc047\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s wording was \u201CDoes the Prime Minister still deny\u201D\u2014from memory\u2014\u201Cthat the CPI rise in the last quarter was the highest for 20 years?\u201D. That gives the Prime Minister, or any Minister, a fair bit of licence in answering that type of question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228589dac3494148d088255c7151068877\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af0d3d26393e411d896891a81a1542a2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is seeking an opinion about the CPI. The question asked whether the Prime Minister denies that the CPI was the highest in the last quarter. That leaves a fair bit of latitude, and it would be wrong of me as Speaker to unfairly clip the wings of a Minister too much. However, I would not want the Prime Minister to go on for too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f382afbc09bd477c95d693876557e95a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, I will not go on for too long. If one looks at the rise in all food prices over the last 12 months, one sees that it was 5.5 percent, and that included the 2 percent increase for GST. In the last year of a Labour Government, food went up by 10.8 percent, on average, and there was no increase in GST then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4d2dd8cdaaf4bac859781bb2e234f3f\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: When the Prime Minister in February talked about delivering faster-rising incomes for New Zealanders and their families, why was it that in 2010 all he delivered, according to Statistics New Zealand, was a fall in the median income?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a4492d43ac84c3aae847d81133f7770\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I go back to the rise in incomes over the last 12 months\u2014which was 2010\u2014which, based on statistics from Statistics New Zealand, went from $39,518 to $42,214. That was a rise of 6.8 percent in nominal terms, or 2.7 percent in real terms. In other words, we delivered 2.7 percent in real terms when Labour delivered 4 percent over 9 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa1a66aecacc4d07910d49fbc8551e5a\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd6e5e9e88964378a941f393fa35dac0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order has been called. I say to the Hon Dr Nick Smith that he is skating on thin ice. He made that interjection well after the point of order was called.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236a74e94c6904c6da84ae42f1f419760\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: That was, I think, according to all of your instructions, a very narrow question about the median income. The Prime Minister did not answer with regard to the median income; he used average income. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e976509aee94b5787956c9d53666253\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order is being considered. I invite the member to compare the language used in the question with his own language in questions. He will observe that his own language is very precise when he asks questions. I accept that his colleague\u2019s language referred to the median income\u2014I absolutely accept that. But the Prime Minister, in answering the question, is disputing the information contained in it. The Prime Minister, obviously, in answering the question, is saying that average after-tax incomes may be, in his view, more important than median before-tax incomes. In asking that kind of question, in the way it was worded, it is my view that that is not unreasonable. I think it would be pedantic of the Speaker to try to constrain Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EMoreover, yesterday the member saw me stop the Prime Minister in full flight. When he was asked a straight question he went on to make a comment about the Opposition. Where I hear straight questions without implied criticism of the Government, I will insist on answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EWhere members can help themselves is to take out of questions the language that gives Ministers the chance to get off the hook. Today we have heard too many questions that have language that lets Ministers off the hook. I listen very carefully, and I will do my best; where the question is a straight question and a fair question I will do my best to make sure it is answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f0895e0d7904c6390e61e77d642326c\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Is the rising cost of living, and the fact that New Zealand workers are earning a third less than their counterparts in Australia, the reason why every day in February of this year 139 New Zealanders left permanently for Australia\u20141,000 more for the month of February this year than February last year, according to the figures just released?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229303e6f243344091a3d7a1316dea1375\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I dispute those numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264b99eec459a403491fcbe16f014afb7\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Can it be in order to dispute numbers that I have just quoted from Statistics New Zealand, released today, and available to the Prime Minister and to you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e46502d143544638eeb5fabb343ef6d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is absolutely in order to dispute figures. When Ministers do dispute figures, of course, they place themselves at risk, as future questions can be put down on the Order Paper to ask for specific answers in relation to those matters. Ministers are entitled to dispute the content of questions, but they face further questioning when they do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efdeb69f3ecf4f089e49a40cc1bf345f\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240c3a7518c6d42e0aaebe7a7db08e49d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fd0b491f8ff481fab3e52f29d30b1f0\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e404e96ab6da42ebbc081e1a9f3e1665\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, a point of order should be called.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022957c5e040df74a608155ed39a6281a14\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: OK. I seek the leave of the House to table the statistics just released proving the point that I have just stated, which was disputed by the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022091c7886bc294b1f8761a5e3be2a1fc9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We do not table recently released statistics, because they are available to all members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022214b17d5ea4842bd896091651db860cc\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it in order to avoid answering a question by disputing figures that are available to the Prime Minister publicly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276a9e0fc754c4de98c0d4bddcf1905e8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is question time, in case the honourable Leader of the Opposition had forgotten that. It happens every day, and when Ministers dispute figures that the honourable member believes are proper figures, they open themselves to tighter questioning on that issue. It is a risk Ministers run. The sanction is in the tough questions\u2014the member should not be interjecting. The sanction is in tough questions. Questions that insert or seek opinions are not tough questions. I accept that the final question from the Leader of the Opposition was a fairly precise question. But the Minister is entitled to dispute the information contained in it. I as Speaker cannot judge that, but Ministers leave themselves open to further tight questioning when they do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0dc42a60dba45ce9a61d0394ef5077a\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I ask you, not now, to review your response to this, and especially the reflection that is made on the Government Statistician by the Prime Minister disputing his figures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5a2638016f54f39bc04f2e1daa64a09\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member was doing perfectly fine with his point of order until that point. He is now debating the issue. The matter is very simple: I cannot judge the accuracy of a Minister\u2019s answer. Ministers are absolutely entitled to dispute figures, but if they get them wrong, they leave themselves vulnerable. There are further supplementary questions today, there is another question time tomorrow, and members have the chance to pursue these matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f993a2b19924540b9f4d3865d39f97c\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You started your answer in the House saying it is question time. It is also answer time. It was a straight question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d0a323e7f074933b260c8bd596d2a9e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat immediately. He will not dispute my ruling. The Minister gave a straight answer. He disagreed with the information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c699e7c6-53b9-470c-a14a-378cb6fc8a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd98e6ade46342259132861f1d92e6ef\u0022\u003EHon Phil Goff\u003C/span\u003E: He avoided\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad9c8f0af6c440a7a7f73e1744b93576\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The honourable Leader of the Opposition will cease that or he will leave the House; he has the choice. I have ruled on the matter, and Ministers are absolutely entitled to dispute information contained in supplementary questions. They are even entitled to dispute information contained in primary questions. Even though it is validated, it may not be in the\u2014the Leader of the Opposition needs to be careful. I do not wish to evict him from the House but I will not hesitate if he carries on down this line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002289ec47d995c940c88dad2181a1b08557\u0022\u003EPolice Powers\u2014Petrobras Protest\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u0022109d8f4962be485ca7baf1377778ef21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022109d8f4962be485ca7baf1377778ef21\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f23792d1f85e49a9b30b73319db0f9ac\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Labour front bench\u2014[Interruption] That just let them off the hook. [Interruption] Senior members should know better than that. I heard two members use totally unparliamentary language. I will not do anything about it on this occasion, because of the responses from the other side. But the House will come to order. It may not have liked my rulings, but I am satisfied that I have ruled appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u002243b904b82ff74b8dbb2fcd27f903fb4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243b904b82ff74b8dbb2fcd27f903fb4f\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE (Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: What powers do the New Zealand Police have to protect the economic interests of New Zealanders in our exclusive economic zone?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002205b03033aed34da6af2a37524d673e34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205b03033aed34da6af2a37524d673e34\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E The police, who are operationally independent under section 16 of the Policing Act, deal with operational matters on a case by case basis and exercise their discretion as appropriate. The police\u2019s ability to act is found in a variety of legislation. In particular, the Policing Act 2008 outlines the roles and functions of police, and they include keeping the peace, maintaining public safety, law enforcement, and crime prevention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022892f25f2ce9b48fdb8fd48a43ccf7090\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: What powers do the police have in respect of the protesters who at the weekend threw themselves in front of the Petrobras exploration vessel, forcing it to veer off course to avoid endangering them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa21e1c9f29d40d1b12fe532445a734b\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: In a general sense, it is understood that enforcement jurisdiction on the sea is covered by customary international law, the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, and New Zealand domestic law. Applicable New Zealand legislation includes the Crimes Act, the Summary Offences Act, the Maritime Transport Act, the Maritime Crimes Act, the Maritime Security Act, the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea Act, and the Continental Shelf Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022532271e86a3243248fb4858853d15d0e\u0022\u003EHon Rodney Hide\u003C/span\u003E: What is the point of the police serving notices on the protesters to stay at least 250 metres from the bow and the stern of the Petrobras exploration vessel, if the police are not prepared to enforce that order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0bd5045da62454cb9f0a49d4928b745\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: The Commissioner of Police and the police act independently of the Government, as they should do. I believe that they have full powers under the Acts I have just listed to take action should they wish to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002219278d0f343146459859747edc552f24\u0022\u003EFinance, Minister\u2014Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u0022373cefff196b41528f16b1a7107c0eaa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022373cefff196b41528f16b1a7107c0eaa\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all his statements on Q\u002BA on 10 April 2011?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc1004f140074ceeb4950aee75f7d362\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc1004f140074ceeb4950aee75f7d362\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, particularly the comment about the Government having a long-term plan to lift economic performance and get higher incomes and more jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f98def94d4c4aa081b736d4d1278ce8\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: If he thinks that the wage gap with Australia is such an advantage, as he told Q\u002BA, why did he not campaign on widening it at the 2008 election instead of campaigning on the need to catch up with Australia, which is what he said he would do but not what he has achieved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022192a3718db13442ba153271fdd83578a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I was just stating the obvious: today, there are New Zealanders whose jobs depend on businesses that are successfully competing with Australian ones. I know competition is a dirty word in the Labour Party, but out in the real world it is how one gets ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d6a747f8d924182979d19e8f923eab4\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Bernard Hickey, who said Mr English\u2019s tax switch is simply \u201Cnot working\u201D, the GST increase \u201Chas hurt a swathe of society that could least afford it.\u201D, and \u201CThe tax cuts for those on higher salaries has not been saved and invested in job-creating export industries.\u201D; if not, where are the rising wages and the new jobs to prove that Mr Hickey is wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa349e57dde349dcbc6c8d4325c307f1\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not agree with Mr Bernard Hickey. If the Labour Party does, then it will reverse the tax changes\u2014that is, it will put income taxes up and cut GST. Labour is quite free to campaign on that if it agrees with him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225045bef226a44f12b1bbbca06fc700f4\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: What do recent figures on New Zealand\u2019s real after-tax wages show?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ace2e786849424c87c943a161d11eb1\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a good question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204f96caf573d4bd1bbb7e21751509202\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That is a good question, because recently the Government has adjusted national superannuation, which includes a formula based on our real after-tax wages. Over the period since September 2008, real after-tax wages in New Zealand have grown by 10 percent. Over the comparable period in Australia they have grown by 6.2 percent. That means we have done better than Australia on real after-tax wages. But it is only a small step and we will not get too excited about it, because there is a long way to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266e5e6ffadba4fe9affae5a1025ef55b\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Was increasing New Zealand\u2019s minimum wage by a tiny 25 cents an hour from 1 April part of his strategy to attract foreign capital by having cheaper wages?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022204499a356ad49f1b459925329c51bad\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No. The increase in the minimum wage\u2014which was, I think, the second one under this Government\u2014strikes a reasonable balance between recognising the effects of the cost of living on people who are on the minimum wage, and on the other hand ensuring that a lot of people still have an opportunity to get a job for which an employer can afford to pay them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd9c4b0315b147fb8acc7264da515514\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: In light of his statement that New Zealand\u2019s low wages are an advantage and a way of competing, does he also view the Government\u2019s industrial relations reforms, which remove workers\u2019 rights, as an advantage because they further drive down wages and labour rates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291fc52264bb24d589ab03500f8990dc2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: All our policy is focused on achieving more jobs and higher incomes. Changes in labour market reform\u2014for instance, the 90-day trial period\u2014are allowing people who were otherwise shut out of the workforce and living on benefits better opportunities to get jobs, and therefore higher incomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fabc4bd1d2c8415688a758022a135c70\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Which of the following does he consider to be his greatest contribution to improving New Zealand\u2019s fiscal performance: widening the wage gap with Australia, overshooting the Crown liability on South Canterbury Finance by $700 million, signing a blank cheque for AMI Insurance before doing due diligence on the company, granting a $43 million loan to MediaWorks in an election year, paying $2 million for a \u201CTupperwaka\u201D to float Pita Sharples\u2019 boat with Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua, or finessing his family trust in order to get double the normal housing allowance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c0f6d2418c245b6be28bf4ad60357b6\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: None of those assertions are true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220fec72a4db0a4e38bc6510218ba55d5a\u0022\u003ELegal Aid\u2014Funding Gap\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffa042332d2d4edfb79b24ed70a226dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffa042332d2d4edfb79b24ed70a226dc\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: What has caused the $402 million legal aid funding gap?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022 data-id=\u002256cf2bd76788432f82a235c9c3e18b2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256cf2bd76788432f82a235c9c3e18b2e\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Two-thirds of the $402 million gap, which will emerge over 5 years from 2010-11, stems from decisions made in 2006 to extend eligibility for legal aid and in 2008 to increase lawyer remuneration. To be blunt, those changes were completely unaffordable and unsustainable then, and they are even more so now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d26996192a534985837aa9a61bfcb9c2\u0022\u003EChester Borrows\u003C/span\u003E: What steps is the Government taking to close this gap?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022663122de842c45b8af4a6dbe986da67e\u0022\u003EHon SIMON POWER\u003C/span\u003E: Among other measures, we are changing legal aid eligibility, purchasing approaches, revenue collection, and court-ordered lawyer for the child services. I want to make it absolutely clear that none of these changes will affect cases involving vulnerable parties, the care and protection of children, or serious criminal matters. The changes will be implemented in 2011-12 and are expected to reduce legal aid expenditure by $138 million over 4 years. The changes are necessary to bring the legal aid growth curve back under control, while preserving access to justice for those who need it the most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bb9fdaa60ec24334b748db19ec9803ef\u0022\u003EMediaWorks, Payment Arrangement\u2014Confidence in Ministers Involved\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022990210382197410095f57301da4f652d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022990210382197410095f57301da4f652d\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he have confidence in all Ministers involved in the MediaWorks frequency payment arrangement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4233969a909451e8c7e032774ee03f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4233969a909451e8c7e032774ee03f1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, as I do with regard to the other eight transactions that were entered into on the deferred payment schedule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df9a8811de9f4777920483246f2f6eea\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: In light of his answer yesterday that he had not read Deloitte\u2019s report, is it his practice to grant $43 million loans without reading the paperwork?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229525fd4c84554da481922420b0f031ec\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I was not the Minister responsible for the loan. I make the point that the paperwork from Deloitte that the member is talking about was issued in May 2009. Cabinet considered the matter in October. The proposition we considered then was vastly different from the proposition that Deloitte reported on in May. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235d63e770aa74cd2984e303748251774\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Who approved his answers to parliamentary written questions No. 2043 (2011) and No. 2044 (2011), in which he denied discussing the issue with any MediaWorks senior manager, when in fact he had discussed it with Brent Impey, the chief executive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6b71f2449ce45c7acb1bbe8169bbc03\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I did, and I corrected the answer as soon as I became aware of the issue. I would not describe our conversation as a meeting, which was the basis of most of the questions. Very brief, informal discussions took place, as Brent Impey said yesterday. The conversation was a couple of quick sentences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e70a431bb63e4c63b02d49008633f61b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Following that discussion, which he forgot when answering the questions, did he refer the matter to Mr Steven Joyce?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200bf1b18d275493882ac922c53da7fd3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot remember the exact details, but there were discussions in Cabinet as the position worsened for all of the companies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220dd0b5a09bd945f3a7f9a9c7eb10e15e\u0022\u003EPetrobras, Petroleum Exploration Permit\u2014Emergency Response Plan\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u002231abab7de45d4a6ba651027350fdd391\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231abab7de45d4a6ba651027350fdd391\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Acting Minister of Energy and Resources: Did Petrobras provide an emergency response plan outlining how they would stop a catastrophic oil leak or spill before the Government issued them a permit to explore for oil and drill off the East Cape?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef9d045029ab40b388d557740b43182d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef9d045029ab40b388d557740b43182d\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA (Acting Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E The Government awarded Petrobras a 5-year exploration permit that allows Petrobras to acquire and interpret 2-D and 3-D seismic data and to drill one exploratory well. If Petrobras decides to proceed to drilling an exploratory well, before any drilling operation can go ahead it will have to develop a discharge of management plan, which must be approved by the Director of Maritime New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022842758cd8dd44750a2f83d6a55a1b085\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was on notice and was quite a simple, straightforward question: was a response plan provided by Petrobras before the Government issued a permit? I do not believe that the Minister answered that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e60667ddd36a4c4885f8c8eaa8aeaccb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s point of order is a fair one. The question was on notice, and the answer did not advise the House as to whether any emergency response plan had been provided prior to the issue of the permit. It may well be that the Minister thinks such a plan was not necessary, but as the question was on notice the House deserves an answer as to whether a plan was provided.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd3650782e7d42e692da247c98f07f80\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: If I could clarify by explaining the staged nature of the permit that has been made available to Petrobras: different steps are required at different stages. The 2-D and 3-D seismic mapping has to occur before an exploratory well can be drilled. If it were to be drilled, then at that point a discharge plan would be required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fc8ab326-1806-41d3-8c41-cd58c95dcb45\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b9432e4bb5a4af7a80ddc8977f2d4c9\u0022\u003EMetiria Turei\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My apologies, but again the question was not answered. It asked whether Petrobras had provided that report before the permit was issued. The Minister did not answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5fdc94889cd4692b9a196ae6aace77b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I believe on this occasion she provided an answer. As I heard her answer, she said that for the initial seismic mapping work that is being done, no such plan was required. Therefore, obviously, no such plan was provided. That is quite clear from what she said. The members can question her further about that, but that was my understanding of what she said. So the answer is clearly no. The Minister explained to the House that the permit provided for only certain things to happen. If I am wrong on that, I invite the Minister to correct that understanding. I think it was a fair question on notice, and it deserved an answer, but I believe that it has now been answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d448dffa12a146af805c584b61bb610c\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Interpreting the Minister\u2019s answer to the previous question as no, could she tell us why the Government is permitting any foreign oil company to explore and drill for oil in deep water without first providing an emergency response plan to be followed in the event of a leak or a spill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212a89b5892f748f5889d551f84f69bae\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the premise of that question, actually. As I explained in my primary answer, there is a staged process within the permit. At each stage different steps are required. Since we have not reached the stage at which an exploratory well might be drilled, the particular response necessary for it has yet to be considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b22c95d84c7e4a1aa17761c1c55c2644\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. We are now in a difficult situation. You interpreted, if you like, the answer the Minister gave as no, which we accepted, and therefore our point of order did not carry the day\u2014she had answered the question. The Minister is now saying she did not say no. Therefore, she did not answer the question in the way that you interpreted. So she never answered the question, at all. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db0e8db778d1484fad6d95c964059718\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A serious primary question was asked and I am taking these points of order seriously. Forgive me, but as I understood what the Minister said the second time round\u2014and this may not be correct\u2014I heard her say that because the staged permit does not at this stage provide for drilling, no emergency response plan was considered necessary. As I heard the Minister\u2019s answer, she indicated that no such plan was required. None has been given, because the staged permit that has been issued does not at this stage provide for exploratory drilling. If I have got that wrong, let us hear the correction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5ae20c421cd4c7e930ff2ab1547b358\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The permit does provide for an exploratory well to be drilled, but only after the 2-D mapping and then the 3-D mapping stages have been completed. If the data is sufficient for the company, then it can go to the next stage, at which point further requirements would be triggered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ea1a61efc8d4a049819481329576422\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Was that a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296e87d034fff4d6e9351a8e93a0954d6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As I consider it, it was actually the Minister giving a fuller answer. That was my interpretation of what happened there. Does that answer assist the members?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d6ac90371614ae5b8bfffdd47809ead\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Recognising that the Minister may not be aware that a discharge permit is not an emergency response plan, does she agree with Dr Nick Smith, Minister for the Environment, who said this morning that there are deficiencies in environmental protection in the exclusive economic zone, where the Petrobras permit allows it to drill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0c28dd165ba417ea208c4677c90ccc8\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: If I could reply to the first part of the question, in fact my answer referred to a discharge management plan, not to a discharge permit as the member suggested. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a11396680e94cc6922a55b5f561ffbc\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell us how a new piece of legislation will plug an oil leak in the event of an accident on a deep-water drilling rig?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022053598684408444a9a93a411145e946d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There was such noise around the House that I could not hear the question. I ask the member to repeat it, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c833bd386e214148ac04d1f4dc7cd422\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell us how a new piece of legislation will plug an oil leak in the event of an accident on a deep-water drilling rig?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227908c659acc24b2198df4a7b183c1c93\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: As I do not know which new piece of legislation the member is talking about, I cannot answer the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab254d8caece44b3881c14752dde4c98\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister expect that a team of 400 New Zealanders will be able to cope with a catastrophic oil leak or spill, when 7,000 US Coast Guard personnel and over 40,000 other emergency personnel were not able to contain the Deepwater Horizon leak for some 86 days? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022009bdbe5daf94711a32f55e507379d27\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: Maritime New Zealand is responsible for ensuring New Zealand is prepared for, and able to respond to, marine oil spills. The Marine Pollution Response Service consists of internationally respected experts who manage and train a team of around 400 local government and Maritime New Zealand responders. New Zealand has equipment and other stores strategically located around New Zealand. In addition, the Marine Pollution Response Service assists regional councils with exercise and oil spill equipment. The plan is responsive and is regularly evaluated to ensure it meets changing risk profiles. Should the pattern of oil exploration\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291c46fe2ab50444db64e64e3c363dd30\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is an extensive answer to, clearly, a different question. Can I suggest that the member just table it? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272a4f331513f451fa8516a7477f395a7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is entitled to raise a point of order. The answer that was being given did not focus exactly on the question asked, and that was the dilemma. The question asked whether the Minister believed that New Zealand\u2019s 400 people involved in some kind of response team in the situation described could achieve more success than thousands of people in the United States of America did during the recent Gulf of Mexico spill. It was just an opinion being sought from the Minister. Admittedly, we got an interesting answer about how currently New Zealand responds to such an emergency, but that was not the question asked. The question asked was whether the Minister believed that our 400 people could do better than the US thousands. It is just an opinion being sought. I would be grateful if the Minister would answer it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022062f7a33f66148e4b3ce3f04d99d38fb\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: I was giving a rather long answer to the hyperbole that was in the question in order to reassure members that the plan is responsive and regularly evaluated\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db75a8255a69404abc7ac6546051f0dc\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Far be it from me to be your protector, but I think that if there had been hyperbole in the question, you would have ruled it out. Therefore, that statement was a reflection on you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022117d51238c394d2ca03513635ac41bb8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. I am trying to get us through this particular question, and to get members some satisfaction on answers they are seeking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ce3bc3959474207b079f2632a9b183f\u0022\u003EHon Rick Barker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. To help the Green MP, could he rephrase his question to suggest that the Minister\u2019s Hansard be used as an alternative to the bill to plug the hole? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b66993a65db74946a8e6bb0c4780560a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Let us be reasonable and go back. The question was an opinion question. It was within the Standing Orders. An opinion was being sought. The Minister does not have to give any particular opinion, but the question should be addressed, one way or another, as it was asked. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc6ac6d631634034b87cc45a8d612584\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: The point I was getting to was that the plan is responsive and regularly evaluated to ensure it meets changing risk profiles. So should the pattern of oil exploration or production change, Maritime New Zealand would change its response accordingly, specific to New Zealand\u2019s situation. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e2ebd7579a64f3980934056136a0e45\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Gulf of Mexico disaster was stopped only when a second rig drilled a relief well, does she expect Petrobras to provide a second rig in case there is a catastrophic leak in the exploratory well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247baa01f04bf49d68fc420e6a3228b56\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: This is asking me to\u2014well, I am asking you, Mr Speaker, for a point of clarification. This is a hypothesis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed66ba4caaa1476b9279a7ea1231cb11\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House will be silent. Members are entitled to ask hypothetical questions, but, obviously, there is no precise answer to a hypothetical question. Whether a second rig would be provided to drill a second hole if anything went wrong with the first is a hypothetical question, and the Minister is perfectly at liberty to say\u2014it is a hypothetical question seeking a view, and there is no precise answer to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7488baa5b6c4fdebc9849862e6fcfd6\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for your guidance, Mr Speaker. The response would be appropriate to the circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ddd8ac7956b4bc3a6fc32de52fa6ac9\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: In interpreting that as the Minister not expecting Petrobras to provide a second rig, does she have an estimate of the length of time it would take for a second rig to arrive in New Zealand to drill a relief well in the event of an accident?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237b02081784a4cfc8fd75ba6defbfaba\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234700a50da7f40fe931c9d387c7ab766\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora t\u0101tou. Does she agree with Dr Apirana Mahuika that it was not Petrobras that was the genesis of the problems on the East Coast but, rather, the Crown; if so, what process improvements will she consider for future applications in order to ensure comprehensive and timely consultation with iwi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267fc9b54f2f34f329784d1cee61e6f1a\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: I am very open to suggestions on improvements, and I look forward to discussing these with Dr Mahuika and with others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b66d3a5ae024ee8b1784d83a7284f5e\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Given the significant environmental risks associated with deep-water drilling, and noting that the Gulf of Mexico incident involved over 50,000 emergency personnel and the spending of some US$39 billion, what resources are available in New Zealand to cope with a major oil spill that were not available to the US Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ead03-bf7f-496a-a02f-ce52859c58c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf72a5787cf540a3ad19a4e6834e7c26\u0022\u003EHon HEKIA PARATA\u003C/span\u003E: Maritime New Zealand is responsible for ensuring that New Zealand is prepared, and it does so through the Marine Pollution Response Service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002269b53245cd5c4153b81a885c090c1800\u0022\u003EMinisterial Vehicles\u2014Replacement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00221cd23c8660a8432f8f0f212565574bf3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cd23c8660a8432f8f0f212565574bf3\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he agree with his Minister for Ministerial Services\u2019 answer to a supplementary question on Question No. 11 yesterday, regarding whether he is in charge of processes in Ministerial Services: \u201CIt depends. It depends on the circumstances. I was not responsible for this particular instance, because it was not brought to my attention, and there was no reason for it to be.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022007c4a0b4d1c4618a879ae9e3c6ea9c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022007c4a0b4d1c4618a879ae9e3c6ea9c7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. I was not responsible for the decision made by the department, as it was an operational matter for the chief executive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2017eeae0ba47bb9a8fb0d9776e2f27\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ef5f432e9df45f78f220651b56a3774\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, members should read the Cabinet Manual. Section 3.5 of the Cabinet Manual states that Ministers \u201Cshould not be involved in their department\u2019s day-to-day operations.\u201D However, I acknowledge that I am responsible for answering questions in the House on operational matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268f9bf6661204dca95ca2bbd5092509d\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Is it his expectation that Ministers in his Government will read papers before signing them, particularly documents relating to the overall direction of their portfolios, such as statements of intent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223ae1f1a46a84634aa1c7fd960b09829\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Yesterday in the House the member was making the claim that I had made the decision on the purchase of new BMWs. Let us actually quote from the statement of intent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261297424fc074ab293bb793396401f5b\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That is not what I did, and I take offence at that remark. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4e767d771f14054b4c77fd9084e0448\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members are entitled to raise points of order. I expected to hear a different point of order from the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a76088db322484a9e720761db44810c\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I will give you another one, if you like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f4b070362034110827d0ea185e20a46\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am not very sympathetic with the point of order that the member has made, but to me he would have had a legitimate grievance given that he asked a very simple question: whether that is the Prime Minister\u2019s expectation. The Prime Minister answered that; therefore the rest of the answer was really superfluous to requirements. I invite the member to ask a further supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da02ef520c884a259b13a06a9194d003\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he expect Ministers in his\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022638367c9a04c479aa55523d0c1f357c1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Let us go to the Hansard of yesterday, where the question from Mr Robertson\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229480f63f30be4f2a9ee02d887684cede\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014no! We cannot litigate matters in that way. I have not supported the member\u2019s point of order; I have simply pointed out that the member asked a very simple question about whether the Prime Minister expected Ministers to read important documents, such as statements of intent, prior to signing them, I think. The Prime Minister answered that; he said yes, he did. Going on further, given the simplicity of that question, was unnecessary, I think, and that is why I invited a supplementary question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a26f82877fe4d03aef5038467221968\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he expect Ministers in his Government to be aware of a major capital purchase within their portfolios, particularly one with some political risk attached to it; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022218f947449e142ecb402ce5e66e86da9\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do. That is why I have changed the procedures with Ministerial Services. I am not actually responsible for the capital budget; that goes somewhere else. But I have changed the procedures, and I have made it quite clear to the Chief Executive of the Department of Internal Affairs that I expect there to be an improved performance when it comes to the no-surprises policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223af4337cf021410e8469b588f23e885e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Has he received any advice of any inconsistencies in Hansard yesterday about what was in the statement of intent for Ministerial Services as compared with what the member claimed was in it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c6d67905487469dafde737ee2d0d32e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I will quote from yesterday\u2019s Hansard a question from Grant Robertson: \u201CIs it correct that the decision to replace the VIP transport fleet was put to him, as Minister responsible for Ministerial Services, four times through March and April 2009, as part of the statement of intent process, and that as Minister responsible he signed off those documents \u2026 ?\u201D. Let us quote from the statement of intent, which says: \u201CThe \u2018Property, plant and equipment\u2019 category includes expenditure on computer hardware associated with infrastructural asset projects, office fit-outs and associated furnishings, and cyclical replacement of the VIP transport fleet.\u201D That is not a decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6dddb68f49e4d60868d41414f6e3339\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call Grant Robertson. [Interruption] The House is getting pretty excited over this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222722ed455477449980d12a269599b351\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think it is acceptable for the Minister responsible for Ministerial Services\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4bf1d040da34286801e3781f3a187ba\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the member. I cannot hear the question that is being asked. The House will come to order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b5942d984874b21b69fed8a9c4746d1\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think it is acceptable for his Minister responsible for Ministerial Services not to have read a briefing on a major capital issue in his department until 2 months after he received it, and then to have read it only because, to quote the Minister: \u201CI saw an item on the news concerning the replacement of BMWs.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b1a84217b8d412789df913d0357bb19\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: That Minister reads a lot of very large documents, and when he sees a one-line reference to \u201Ccyclical replacement\u201D it does not present a proposal to the Government. If a proposal had been put to the Minister, I am sure he would have remembered that. It never was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c6366601be441b192b1d46e8d5a58c0\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table a Department of Internal Affairs briefing sent to the Prime Minister on 17 December 2010, which goes into some detail about the proposal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a8ef32a7c514565b0b3dcadd5b6ba64\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221773de7624b144f09abf81953dd8948a\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Would he deem it appropriate for a Minister to take responsibility for an issue in his or her portfolio, such as the replacement of the vehicle fleet, when it is mentioned in four different briefings to him, when a driver tells him it is happening, and when his chief of staff is briefed on it by the department?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ad49be705fc4e81a70b829454a13736\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I am responsible for answering questions in the House. As the Cabinet Manual says, I am not responsible for purchase decisions, because those are within the delegation to the chief executive. As I said, I was disappointed with the decision made by the chief executive, in that he did not inform me of it under the no-surprises policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232bc03c81b384ecf88cc8fba7af4caa6\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with John Armstrong that the key doctrine of ministerial accountability is weak and boils down to two words: \u201Cit depends\u201D; or would he prefer the description \u201Csee no detail, hear no detail, speak no detail\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a260a9a008f94f708dd1bca361173df4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I respectfully do not agree with Mr Armstrong on that occasion. But I agree with the stuff he has been writing recently in which he has essentially been saying the Leader of the Opposition is making statements recently that are at risk of making Charlie Sheen look coherent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228f4950b1e5894fc2b96d9cd4ca7e5ff4\u0022\u003EJob Ops Scheme\u2014Numbers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u00222d5003e7e7034abe9eea3eb423d5c614\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d5003e7e7034abe9eea3eb423d5c614\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: How many young people have benefited from the Government\u2019s job opportunities programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022449543fccbf241a392dc4544d10f81bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022449543fccbf241a392dc4544d10f81bf\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks to the vision of this Government and the support of around 7,000 New Zealand businesses, over 10,000 young people have been given work through Job Ops. When we introduced Job Ops we were facing the worst recession since the 1930s, and this has made a real difference for those young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289f41b39104747c6b7f1764f9a948f47\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: What do we know about these young people who have completed a Job Ops placement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdad4d96aba44be69afa6212d77ce0fc\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: We know that of the 4,577 young people who have completed their Job Ops placement so far, about 90 percent are not on a benefit. That is about 4,153 young people. Although it is not a requirement to record where they go, we know that 70 percent of those young people, or 3,190, have secured full-time or part-time employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8ca424aaed44a458b4639ace7039a52\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Can she confirm that there are currently 58,000 young people not in employment, education, or training; and, if not, how many are there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222343dc6e629d4bec9c71ed413144131f\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: According to the latest household labour force survey, for the group aged 15 to 24 years the unemployment rate is at 16.8 percent. In the December 2011 quarter there were 6,200 fewer 15 to 24-year-olds on the unemployment benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f9f751f47de4130a218f200e5bfb402\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Although the Minister might have some advantages, I think that quoting December 2011 figures is probably not amongst them, and maybe she might like to correct her figures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b6851bb308046a998b6d30d77fe2c2e\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022647895d459234ec295a9764497f5173e\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a further point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f45d0bed6dfc405791584570c43e6a7d\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: It is. I also wish to clarify that my question was about what is titled the \u201Cneets\u201D, which is young people not in employment, education, or training, as opposed to the household labour force survey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a99b369bd0c743788c0eeb97bee18de3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will deal with the point of order that is perhaps of more substance, although I appreciate the member\u2019s point. The question was commendably direct, and contained no implied criticism whatsoever. It asked whether the Minister could confirm a certain figure in relation to a group of young people, and, if not, what the actual figure was. Maybe the Minister does not have that particular figure in the House, although the primary question would have alerted the Minister to this kind of likely supplementary question. I believe that the Minister should attempt to answer that question, although if she does not have the information that is fine, but it was a very simple question about the number of young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e944034eafd49f08a32f589f635ea93\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: First, may I correct my answer. It was indeed in the December 2010 quarter that 6,200 fewer 15 to 24-year-olds were unemployed. I do not have the actual number; I have the percentage in front of me, which is what I was giving in response to the member\u2019s question. I do not have the \u201Cneet\u201D number, but I have the percentage, which is considerably lower at 16.8 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228bad4e034724439796968e656ad75cfc\u0022\u003ETransport, Minister\u2014Confidence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00229b048f580c51445482af409202266f5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b048f580c51445482af409202266f5c\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he have confidence in his Minister of Transport?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5d7114c18a14e8fad0d5239bee1c838\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5d7114c18a14e8fad0d5239bee1c838\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Absolutely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2cde7898aa04f2184a702639b9f0b44\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: What account has he seen of the economic benefit to New Zealand of increasing skilled employment and reducing unemployment in relation to the tender process for deciding which company will win the $500 million bid for the fleet of 38 electric multiple units for Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d03efab24a84603ae8b7f07f70475b2\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I have not seen that report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a9d91d17942452dbc00d873d841827a\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that a KiwiRail board decision is imminent on deciding the successful bidder for Auckland\u2019s electric multiple units?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6359d3a8f204762bf3c14df5215a97f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not, and that would be an operational matter for KiwiRail\u2019s board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225276d17850db4f1fa260bde801705607\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Has he been informed of, or received any report on, Sammy Wong\u2019s 6-year relationship with Chinese rail companies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf64340e60574d56ad0711308ce092c7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022791a7119d912405eb6ba1fcc084b7696\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Has he received any reports, formal or informal, that make him aware that Sammy Wong is the subject of an ongoing Audit Office investigation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239a6ea16573c43e389a6a152bfb50039\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I guess that in so far as the Prime Minister has seen any reports, he can answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0b08853209e4fb7bb491f0f7d3967d0\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: I was informally advised some weeks ago that the Audit Office was going to have a look at Sammy Wong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271d6aff61e8e4abba9dd7ddc39815a76\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Is he prepared to work with the Minister of Transport to instruct the KiwiRail board not to proceed with the letting of any tender to a Chinese company until the Audit Office investigation of Sammy Wong is concluded?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220083bcaa-f44d-4b70-97de-d091a209b88c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e2691a3e06b40ba98cfdb12b96448c5\u0022\u003ERt Hon JOHN KEY\u003C/span\u003E: That would be an operational matter for the KiwiRail board\u2014whom it purchases trains from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297762de768f2411cb5dbc20fb470abeb\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table a letter to the office of the Auditor-General from my colleague Pete Hodgson that was sent to the Auditor-General on the invitation of the Prime Minister on 15 December last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6724e3259774ef49b60031a24164ac8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd0223a9e1184b1780ebf9dd15bb316d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table the reply of the Assistant Auditor-General Legal to that letter. It refers to a meeting that was held on it and indicates that an inquiry is under way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dfc284cb7c0455da4ef4fbaed781a25\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d246c89b77064d18b4b5e68a6ad55172\u0022\u003EYouth Guarantee\u2014Progress\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022 data-id=\u00226f95b50ae8b34810b3e2f75ba3cbe9b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f95b50ae8b34810b3e2f75ba3cbe9b1\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What progress has been made on implementing the Youth Guarantee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002290cb94f8b5154d54b972583945c5335b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290cb94f8b5154d54b972583945c5335b\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Heaps\u2014heaps! We have done a number of things, including extending the number of wider Youth Guarantee places to 4,000, well beyond what was announced in the last Budget. Recently I announced the next step in the Youth Guarantee, which is to develop vocational pathways, which will allow students who are at risk of dropping out of the school system clear career and learning options. Those vocational pathways will cover five broad industry sectors: manufacturing and technology, construction and infrastructure, primary industries, social and community services, and service industries. Schools, tertiary providers, and trades academies will be able to offer those pathways from next year, providing clear ways to further tertiary education, apprenticeship, and work for young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022266c63dbcd764c68a373bdccdbed9b44\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has she had on the vocational pathways?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235fa63b5093e4b56afc7ccb4961dc7c4\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: The support has been very positive. The Industry Training Federation has said: \u201CBy developing a broad range of vocational pathways, young people will not be pigeon-holed into a future job, but gain skills that usefully lead to a career in particular industries. It is a brilliant use of the NCEA that does not require major change to the system, but redefines how that system can be used more successfully.\u201D Business New Zealand has said: \u201CIt is essential that the business community, tertiary providers and schools work together to define these pathways to achieve the most productive results.\u201D Delegates at the recent Secondary Principals\u2019 Association of New Zealand conference were also very responsive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cbba95c04120401a8d1f7ea8e1fd6fde\u0022\u003EAuditor Regulation and External Reporting Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220828eebfeadb41329db879cae4617726\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000559\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1204ab3e0e3405f8fe08f5ca97e15d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1204ab3e0e3405f8fe08f5ca97e15d2\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to take a further call on this very important bill, the Auditor Regulation and External Reporting Bill. As I was saying prior to the lunch break, auditing is not a matter people would rate very highly as having influenced greatly the lives of us ordinary human beings. But I think we underestimate the importance of auditing and the nature of accounts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022645235bd1d264a91aeb0896e8b34cf27\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the honourable member. I ask members leaving the Chamber to please cease their conversations as they leave. I thank members. It is discourteous to have members standing with their backs to the Speaker, conversations going on, and people on their feet being rowdy. It is discourteous to this place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdec19368eeb4b54b2ceafa8be3833b9\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I started with one Antonio Mancini, a Florentine of the 13th century. He is the man attributed with having devised double entry accounting procedures. It flowed on to the Medici bank in the 14th century, and was codified and spread further from there. The device has transformed the way in which we look at the world. Max Weber once said capital did not exist before double entry accounting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022803002d1-e810-4bd8-b8e7-2e97d0d6f626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221053c87f9a144619803705fea8db57e8\u0022\u003EHon Simon Power\u003C/span\u003E: Max Weber\u2014that\u2019s highbrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279a5ca80540249c2ae6cc799d811640d\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Simon Power smiles and laughs, but it is true. When one thinks about it, one sees that capital did not exist before double entry accounting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe fact is that the whole of our world today is built around complex financial systems that are based on double entry accounting. We have money in, money received, assets, liabilities, and equities, and we have much more sophisticated forms of financial instruments that have been developed from those systems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EAll of this is little known to many ordinary people, who simply rely on the numbers that are given to them by the financial markets and by their auditors. It is on the basis of these numbers that people make important decisions, such as to invest in companies like Enron and WorldCom, and trust accounting firms that once existed, like Arthur Andersen LLP. The world has seen a number of massive collapses and the loss of huge amounts of capital, and we have watched the financial crisis sweep across the globe. It has eroded huge sums of money and caused huge losses of capital. All of this has been felt in New Zealand by the collapse of a number of finance companies. Millions of hard-earned dollars have gone\u2014vaporised. People\u2019s lifetime savings have gone, and their ambitions for a life in retirement have all disappeared. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EPeople need to trust the financial system and they need to have confidence in the financial system. Recent events, I would say, have severely shaken the confidence of the ordinary public. This Parliament, therefore, must do everything it can to ensure that people have confidence in the financial system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThe Auditor Regulation and External Reporting Bill is not particularly exciting legislation to read. It does not read like a Stephen King novel. For most people it would be a great piece of work to read when trying to sleep at night, if they could penetrate its dense language. Nevertheless, it is an important advance in ensuring that our accounting systems are strong and stable, that our financial institutions can be relied upon, and that the figures that they produce have rigidity and value and will stand the test of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EMy own experience of auditors is rather limited, but it has been very illuminating. I started by having a set of accounts prepared, and every year the accountant came along with an additional requirement in order to get my accounts approved. As these extra requirements went up, I found that the auditor\u2019s waiver of responsibility became longer, deeper, and more expensive. In the end I asked the auditors what I was paying for, because it seemed to me that they were not guaranteeing anything in particular. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EOne of the issues that arose was the liabilities that they faced. This is a complex legal question that is dealt with in part by the Auditor Regulation and External Reporting Bill. We want auditors to be able to give opinions that are of value. This bill will shift the emphasis to that, and give us a better and more robust system. I support that shift. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThis is particularly arcane legislation, and not many people would be interested in it, but for those who are interested in auditing and financial reporting it will be a very important step forward. I see that the bill has been the subject of extensive submissions. It has been well considered by the Commerce Committee, and deserves a thorough and detailed consideration in this House. I recommend the bill to members as a good piece of reading. They should make sure they get up to speed so that when they are confronted in the future with an audit and have to sign off on their audit requirements, they do so with full knowledge of all of the standards and the rigour in the regime that stands behind them. They will be able to assure themselves that the numbers are well represented, are accurate, and will stand the test of time. That should happen not only with their own accounts; when they look at the accounts of another company, an enterprise, or a bank they should feel the same confidence about the figures. This bill will take a significant step forward in producing that confidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221b9fb6dd452a4c4eb68b5a8c48b70d58\u0022\u003ELand Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022733b2aa0f42245808d9a5f5f699dac50\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223dd5b15c4f674ccb92a854b08a6a62af\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to principal Act\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab55c9c013d84028be0a019d81475247\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab55c9c013d84028be0a019d81475247\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I need to inform the Committee that I am withdrawing the amendment to clause 12 on Supplementary Order Paper 226 and the items relating to the Land Transport (Driver Licensing) Rule 1999, to allow these same provisions proposed in Supplementary Order Paper 229 to proceed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2ebdefc6b5c4e4680a20c33dd16f976\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2ebdefc6b5c4e4680a20c33dd16f976\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe. I am uncharacteristically using a modest voice. I shall correct that deficiency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EAs has been intimated to the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Transport, in broad terms Labour supports the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Two particular areas have caused us considerable angst, and I will talk about the first one. It relates to the blood-alcohol limit. The Minister in the chair made reference to the fact that as a consequence of his history and his physiology he was more than capable of absorbing the equivalent of three handsome glasses of vino without it impairing his ability to drive, and without offending the regulations pertaining to people driving whilst having had a bit to drink. Quite apart from the lack of wisdom of a Cabinet Minister making such a statement, when one believes one walks on water one can say virtually anything until such time as the forces of nature, otherwise known as the electorate, correct that misapprehension. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe reason we were hoping we could find some common ground with the Government on this issue is that we felt that a lowering of the limit would send a message that would amplify throughout the spectrum of drinkers. As I have said earlier, we know that there is an element of awkwardness in people making a transition. There would be hardly a member in the Chamber who has not been to a rugby game or to some other spot, had a drink or three, and then chanced his or her arm and driven home, believing that he or she was not over the limit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWe are very concerned about the young, impressionable drinkers. They absorbed a new set of cultural standards and they realised that society\u2014as reflected through their submissions and interaction with the Law Commission, and as was evidenced through the media reports over the last, dare I say, 12 months\u2014is repulsed by the notion that more and more of our young people are suffering as a consequence of not being able to handle their alcohol, and of getting behind the wheel of a vehicle and creating havoc. All we have been saying is that, had we taken that particular stance, it would reinforce the message that New Zealand needs to hear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWe heard from a whole host of parents and advocacy groups. We have only to read about such prestigious institutions as King\u2019s College to see that there is an endemic culture. If we as parliamentarians feel disinclined to challenge that prevailing youth binge drinking culture, then I think that is a very serious indictment. I do not personally believe that the current Minister of Transport wants to let that binge drinking youth culture go unimpeded. However, I think he has missed a very good opportunity by not lowering the blood-alcohol limit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThere are a variety of other things that we agree with, though; I do not want to be too churlish. But I do not think that there is anything petty or unreasonable in challenging the Minister to suffer a road to Damascus experience, have a change of heart, and agree with my colleagues and me and with the work done by my predecessor, Mr Darren Hughes, who hopefully has the time to listen into these contributions. We are carrying on from work that he initiated. If we want to attack the element of our societal culture that either celebrates or remains indifferent to binge drinking, then a good way to do it is to pass a regulation and cause young people, or their parents or other role models, to suffer as a consequence of not being prepared to change their ways. It sounds brutal, but it tends to work in other spheres of life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIt would be good to hear the Minister give the Committee an account as to why he has not taken on board the public\u2019s concerns. I know that he lives by the polls. Of course, he will die by the polls, but that is another matter. I know that National members poll on a tediously regular basis. He has obviously taken a poll outside the Titirangi Golf Club, up at the Auckland Bridge Club in Remuera, down at the Waitemat\u0101 sailing club, and at the various other pursuits that this Minister, who is unfortunately known in the north as the \u201CMinister of Dead Ends\u201D, is up to. But I ask Minister Joyce to please tell us why. We will not attack him on his profligate approach to roads of national significance in this context\u2014well, not in this speech, anyhow. We just want to know why he has not taken on board the concerns of, and the appeals for leadership from, mothers, brothers, sisters, and schoolteachers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EHe should not hide behind the media and he should not hide behind the usual smug, somewhat supercilious garb. He should come out and tell New Zealand why he is leaving this limit the way that he is proposing to leave it, and why he is relying on goodness knows what kind of research, which he has lumbered the police and various other agencies with. The majority of the anti - drink-driving advocates and garden-variety parents\u2014and, as I said, vocational guidance counsellors, ministers of religion, doctors, and people who operate our hospitals and the actual emergency wards\u2014have all told us that we need to take every proactive step to stop the suffering of more young people, their families, and, indeed, innocent people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENot long ago, not far from where I hail from, a person in his middle age was so drunk that he wiped out a beautiful young woman and child, and injured other people. People expect the courts to deliver a decision, but the courts will deliver a decision only when the highest court in the land, the sovereign court\u2014Parliament\u2014has spoken. The party on this side of the Chamber is making a very sensible plea to Minister Joyce to please change his stance, to not hide behind more reports, to trust in the instincts of the people who are at the front line dealing with this carnage, and, on these issues of life and death, to not hide behind polls. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThis is the kind of thing that we would expect a senior Minister of the Crown to embrace and race towards exercising some leadership on. This is not some sort of shady commercial transaction that we have recently tried to pin on him\u2014no. This is about simple, God-fearing Kiwis being afraid that this culture of binge drinking is going unimpeded. No one has more power in this area than the Minister of Transport, so I think it is right that we amplify the fact that he has remained impotent on the issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIt is not unreasonable for us to have a go. I know that advocates from sports clubs and from entities such as the Automobile Association will have a go at whichever Government might be in power over whether this is too heavy-handed, but we cannot trade on the language of strategies such as Safer Journeys or, in our case, See You There\u2014Safe As. The rhetoric is fine, but unless we are proactive on changing the elements that make for safer driving and a safer culture, I have serious concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EAn additional area that has concerned me is the disproportionately high level of negative statistics that come from our young people\u2014by that, I mean rangatahi M\u0101ori, young M\u0101ori drivers. I have a fear that if we put up the age of licensed driving, it will have a disproportionately negative impact on our young people. As the Automobile Association has said, there seems to already be a different culture governing the decisions of many of our young M\u0101ori drivers. Te Puni K\u014Dkiri has long since stopped doing anything proactive in that stance, as befits the approach of the current Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs and his party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThis Minister has an opportunity to deal with the elements in society that disproportionately need leadership. They do not want to change their ways until such time as some State fiat forces them to change their ways. It could affect the pockets of our community and, dare I say, our people\u2014te rangatahi M\u0101ori\u2014who seem to be operating to a different set of cultural principles when they hop behind the wheel of a vehicle. I am not seeking to countenance that, and I certainly do not want to give anyone that impression, but I have seen it myself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIf one indiscriminately changes the way that licences are to be obtained; if one does not take into account how the most vulnerable group, who need the ability to travel safely and legally on the road in order to get a job or better training whilst they are young, will be affected; and if one makes it more difficult for them then one is actually making it difficult for them to escape from the poverty trap that many of them find themselves in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EA whole host of attack lines are coming out of the New Zealand media. We do not need to repeat them so early in the debate; the Minister knows what they are. We will amplify them during the course of this year. I come back again to this: a simple demonstration of leadership from this person, who prides himself of being the unseen force behind the current senior Ministers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u00228828eb6dd0324aa9912ac3f2e120ff46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228828eb6dd0324aa9912ac3f2e120ff46\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to take a call on Part 1 of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Part 1 is the guts of the bill. It has the majority of the various provisions in the bill, so I imagine that we will have a fairly long and lengthy debate on this part. I too want to address a couple of concerns upfront. I will start with the blood-alcohol limit. My colleague Shane Jones has started the debate in a very eloquent way. I advise the Minister of Transport that Labour is here to help. We have tabled an amendment that will allow him to save face by agreeing to decrease the blood-alcohol content limit from 0.08 to 0.05 grams. The reason he needs to take this amendment seriously is that everybody supports a decrease. We have only to look at the variety of polls there have been; numerous polls have been conducted throughout the country. People are extremely puzzled about why the Minister and the National Government are not prepared to put this amendment into this bill or into another bill, if it were the appropriate vehicle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI am not sure that the Minister has taken an awful lot of notice of the submissions on the bill. There were a lot of submitters who came to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. There were 81 submitters and we heard from 31, I think. Many of them were concerned about the lowering of the adult blood-alcohol content. We are saying very strongly\u2014like the New Zealand public has been saying very strongly\u2014that we think now is the time for us to do it. We do not agree that the Government should be kicking this to touch and using the excuse that it needs to have 2 years of research. The advice from officials is very, very clear that a lower blood-alcohol limit will prevent between 15 and 33 deaths and from 320 to 688 serious injuries. That on its own is enough to take action, rather than waiting for a couple of years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThere have been 300 international studies\u2014300 international studies\u2014that have all shown the road-safety benefits from lowering the blood-alcohol concentration. We do not believe that collecting New Zealand - specific data is necessary, because of those 300 international studies. What is so different about New Zealand? We do not understand why we have to go to the expense, why we have to spend money when the country is struggling, why we are wasting money on collecting research that we do not need, and why we are not taking action right now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI want to refer to some of the submissions that came to the select committee. There were a range of groups. There were some very concerned groups. A group from Whangapar\u0101oa and Rodney came down; 77 of them were involved in putting together a submission. The Seventh Day Adventist Church, Grey Power Auckland area committee, Active West Coast, Christchurch City Council, the Drug Foundation, and the Cycling Advocates Network all said that we should be taking the opportunity to reduce the blood-alcohol content from 0.08 to 0.05 grams. Alcohol Healthwatch strongly supported that also. It should know\u2014it has to deal with the consequences of people who have problems with alcohol. We know we have a culture of binge drinking. We know we have alcohol problems in our country at the moment. The Law Commission has highlighted that very clearly. Alcohol Healthwatch talked about how we need to change people\u2019s drinking behaviour. That would not only stop crashes and people dying on the roads but also it would lead to better outcomes in other areas, such as being less of a drain on the health sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ESome other really significant groups came to the select committee, such as the Drink Driving Intervention Trust. Professor Doug Sellman from the National Addiction Centre was extremely interesting. He strongly recommended that we lower the blood-alcohol limit. He said that the current blood-alcohol limit amounts to legalised drink-driving. I think the Minister of Transport himself was very surprised when he found out that he could drink three-quarters of a bottle of wine and still get behind the wheel and drive legally\u2014[Interruption]\u2014and still run the Cabinet agenda; that is right. Professor Sellman went on to say that there is enough international evidence to show that lowering the blood-alcohol limit has positive effects on lowering the incidence of drink-driving\u2014not just saving lives and stopping injuries, but actually changing behaviour. That is one of the key measures the Government should be taking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe Herald on Sunday ran a campaign on lowering the blood-alcohol limit and some people signed up to it. I am not sure whether members of the Government were brave enough to put their names to it, but I know some of them agree with what the Herald on Sunday said. It held a nationwide campaign to get New Zealanders to pledge to two drinks, max. It also said that there is enough evidence to show that we would get real, positive results from changing the blood-alcohol content. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe Alcohol Advisory Council also recommended lowering the blood-alcohol limit. It talked about changing the drinking culture of New Zealand. The problem with the drinking culture, in relation to our roads, is that if people can drink three-quarters of a bottle of wine, like the Minister did, and be legally smashed but then get into a car and drive, why would they change their behaviour? They think that is OK. They measure the number of glasses of wine they can have or the beers they can have. They say that as long as they have not had three-quarters of a bottle of wine they are OK. They do not think about how that impairs their driving, they do not think about the impact that it has on their ability to drive safely, and they do not think about the impact it has on other drivers as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EMembers of Rural Women New Zealand were very interesting as well. I would have thought they are a good group and good friends of the Government, but they said that the Government should be lowering the blood-alcohol limit across the board, and most of their members actually support zero tolerance. We are not suggesting that; we are simply saying that we should use the international research that is available to us. Why does this Government not take a brave step that will save between 15 and 33 lives every year? We do not need to wait for 2 years for New Zealand - specific research. The New Zealand Nurses Organisation represents nurses and knows about the impacts of alcohol and drink-driving. It has said that judgment about the ability to drive safely is severely compromised at 0.08 grams. It also suggested a nationwide education programme. In addition to lowering the blood-alcohol concentration, a nationwide education programme should ensure better understanding of alcohol-related harm and the associated costs of this harm, because, as I have said, it is not just about people dying, other road users being at risk, and people being injured; it is the cost to the health system and to people\u2019s lives. Losing someone in an instant on the roads has an enormous impact on people\u2019s lives. If they are badly injured, of course, there is an ongoing cost both to the families and to our health system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ESo there were many submissions in support of lowering the blood-alcohol concentration, and a number of polls and trials have been conducted throughout the country. A number of employees at media organisations, including those from the Herald on Sunday, ran tests to see how much they could drink and still be legally below the limit. They found it quite frightening that they were able to get behind the wheel and drive their cars on the road. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EAs my colleague Shane Jones has said, we support quite a number of the features in Part 1. We support the zero limit for repeat drink-drivers, because that addresses the issue of drink-driving. We also support the zero limit for drivers under 20 years of age. The provision relating to alcohol interlock devices is a good thing; we really support that. We support doubling the minimum sentence time for drugged or reckless driving that causes death. People have to start taking this seriously. But, unfortunately, they will not take it seriously until this Government takes the brave step that it needs to, supports the amendment that I have put forward, and gets on and lowers the blood-alcohol limit, instead of mucking around for another 2 years looking for New Zealand - specific research. It should not muck around with that; it should get on with it. Let us fix it up. Otherwise, we think the Government has copped out on this. It is a cop-out. It has done some good things in this bill. There are some things that we disagree with, but the Government could make it better by agreeing to lower the blood-alcohol concentration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u00221add7021f3cc4ed1b0fe4d06e9e3d76f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221add7021f3cc4ed1b0fe4d06e9e3d76f\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I will make a couple of points if I can at this stage. I appreciate the support that the Opposition has given to a number of the measures in this bill, but I am a bit concerned at the double standard it now appears to be taking with regard to young drivers versus the blood-alcohol level. Firstly, if we look at the evidence and at what this bill is trying to achieve\u2014I think it will make very strong inroads\u2014we will see that the biggest problems on our roads sadly are our young drivers, where we have a very tragic situation. We have a 60 percent worse fatality rate in this country than in Australia. It is a shocking statistic that we all need to take some responsibility for. High-risk drivers are, sadly, again dominated by people who are not just under or just over the legal blood-alcohol limit, but are actually well over the blood-alcohol limit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EI take the point that the Hon Shane Jones was making, to a point, when he told the Committee of the terrible story of the person who was blind drunk in Northland. We all have those stories. The point is that that person was obviously well over the current legal limit. In terms of the youngsters whom the Hon Shane Jones referred to, I agree with him entirely, which is why we have proposed a nil alcohol limit for young drivers. We have imposed that limit not because we want to punish young drivers, but because we all know, partly from our distant memories and partly from our own children in our lives, that teenagers are not that good on making decisions about when to drink and when to drive. We have had a number of tragic cases in this country where the least drunk teenager has been picked to drive home with, sadly, horrible consequences. We have only a 0.03 grams limit now for young people. A nil limit for young people\u2014having it as an infringement penalty between 0.0 and 0.03 grams, and taking into account the tolerance for mouthwash and all those things\u2014sends a very straightforward message to the under 20s and tells them that if they have a drink, they should not drive. That is the deal and we are making it very straightforward and very black and white, because we are all conscious that we are 10-foot high and bulletproof when we are young. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe contradiction in the Opposition\u2019s position is that on the one hand it says the polls state that everybody says we should lower the adult blood-alcohol limit, despite the fact that there is no evidence of the actual harm caused by drivers with a blood-alcohol concentration between 0.05 and 0.08 grams in this country; there is no evidence. On the other hand, the Opposition says that it is not necessarily in favour of raising the driving age by a year, which is actually a more popular initiative in this country\u2014if we are going to be populist\u2014right through rural and urban areas than the call to reduce the blood-alcohol concentration from 0.08 to 0.05 grams. So that is a bit of a contradiction in terms, particularly when we know the evidence of the difficulties for young drivers. Sadly, we know that we have a 60 percent worse fatality rate in this country than the rates in other countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EPeople have raised the issue of mobility of young drivers, and I completely understand that. But I ask why it is so different to give a 14-year-old a drive to the sports game, but suddenly it is not possible to do that for a 15-year-old. I do not buy that. I think that someone can take a young person to events, until they reach the driving age. That is not the excuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe question we have to ask ourselves is: what is an appropriate age at which young people can drive? There is a chart, which we have shown to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, in answer to Darien Fenton\u2019s concerns, and it has also been shown to all the members who have shown an interest. This chart shows quite clearly that the younger someone is, with the same level of experience, the higher his or her accident rate will be. That is the reality. In fact, there are many people who think the driving age in this country should be another year older again than what we have proposed in the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EWe have to consider that very, very carefully, because there is another chart, which we have shown the select committee, and it is in the high-risk drivers report. It is a very sad chart that shows the number of passengers in vehicles who die at the hand of their young driver friends, when their driver friends are out on their restricted licence or learner licence, late at night, in places like the Bay of Plenty, Waikato, Auckland, or out the back of Hawke\u2019s Bay. There are young kids out there, making bad driving decisions and, unfortunately, taking the lives of other kids with them. We have to make the call that we need a young driver package\u2014it is not just one measure\u2014that says that driving involves more responsibility than they think. We need to take that step, so the Government has put together a young driver package that is about a zero permissible breath - blood-alcohol concentration for under-20-year-olds, changes the minimum age for driver licensing to make it the same as in Australia, toughens up the restricted licence provisions so that young drivers are encouraged to have 120 hours training, and also looks at things like vehicle power restrictions, which we will have a report on later this year. We are saying that here is a whole package because we do not want to have a fatality rate for our young people on the roads that is 60 percent worse than that in Australia. We do not want that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EI will raise one other matter, in terms of the adult blood-alcohol limit. It was addressed at the time that the UK was also looking into lowering its limit from 0.08 grams to 0.05 grams. The UK is an interesting place. It has half the road fatality rate as New Zealand, when using the same population basis. It has one of the lowest rates in the world, but it has a 0.08 grams blood-alcohol level. The UK looked at lowering its blood-alcohol limit too and said that maybe it should be dropped to 0.05 grams because a lot of countries have that limit, but it said no. It has made a decision now. The decision is that it is high-risk drivers who are the problem, and that it is high-risk drivers that they will focus on in the UK. We have made the same decision in this country, because the evidence is clear. If we look at the two areas, high-risk drivers and young drivers who have not already been classified as high-risk drivers, together they comprise 53 percent of at-fault drivers in fatal crashes. More than half the at-fault drivers in fatal crashes are either high-risk drivers or young drivers. By high-risk drivers we mean people who are well over the blood-alcohol limit, people who have had alcohol licence problems before, and all those sorts of people. They actually have an alcohol problem, which turns up the roads. That is the problem we are dealing with. It is an alcohol problem that, unfortunately, turns up on our roads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe other initiative that this bill allows for is alcohol interlocks. That is a big step forward for this Parliament: the ability to provide a technological solution that in many cases will separate the drinker from his or her driving. We have to try to do that. Unfortunately, we cannot have someone in every driveway saying \u201CYou can go on the road\u201D or \u201CYou cannot go on the road\u201D. The road is a very democratic place; everybody has access to it. What we can say is that when someone is the sort of person who cannot make responsible decisions once he or she has had a couple of drinks, then having an alcohol interlock in place will make that decision for him or her. As Darien Fenton has pointed out, we will also have a nil alcohol limit for repeat drink-drivers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EI think this is a cohesive package. I ask the Committee to keep a real focus on young drivers; on the fatality rate that is 60 percent worse compared with that in Australia, which I think is very sad for this country; and also on the real issues with adult drink-driving, which are at the serious end of the spectrum. Once this bill has passed, we will collect the actual data over the next 2 years on the harm caused by drivers who have a blood-alcohol level of between 0.05 grams and 0.08 grams, and then we will settle what has been an emotional and long-running debate in this country about whether moving the blood-alcohol limit from 0.08 grams to 0.05 grams will actually make the difference to the road toll that its advocates say it will. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EI will say a final word on those advocates. I understand the Labour Party\u2019s view is that sometimes to achieve social change the rules in other areas have to be changed, because it likes to do a little bit of social engineering, but I think we are talking about transport here. This issue is actually about transport, and what it is safe to do on the road. To all those groups like Alcohol Healthwatch, Alcohol Advisory Council, and the rest, who want to use the road as a means to achieve wider societal change, I say good on them, but this is actually a transport issue that we need to deal with, and we need to deal with it on that basis. We do not punish people just in the hope that if we really come down hard on them, then we will change the alcohol culture in this country. If we want to change the alcohol culture in this country, that is fine, but many people who are quite happy and law abiding will have a few drinks at home and not drive anywhere, and those people will not respond well to the suggestion that this is all about social engineering. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u00223ca80c62e92b4155b653cd2ed921d434\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ca80c62e92b4155b653cd2ed921d434\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou, kia ora. I rise to take a call on Part 1 of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. I look forward to taking a few calls on this bill. I acknowledge the contribution we have just heard from the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Transport. In general, I agree with what he has said about road safety. We have a problem in New Zealand and we need to do something about it. It has been a longstanding problem. We have improved somewhat over the last several decades, but we still need to do more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI agree with large chunks of this bill. When it comes to changes to the powers of parking wardens, to alcohol interlocks, and to procedural rules for the New Zealand Transport Agency, I think that stuff is all great. Clearly, the big issue the bill addresses is alcohol, and when looking at the issue of alcohol this bill cannot be taken in isolation. We have a national cultural drinking problem. It is not just a problem of alcohol on the roads; New Zealand has a wider cultural problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, this bill is not doing the single most effective thing that could be done to deal with alcohol on the road. Likewise, with the Alcohol Reform Bill we are simply targeting young drinkers with changes to the legal drinking age. We are not looking at the broader cultural problems. We are not addressing the massive amounts of alcohol advertising we have, changes to hours, or ready-to-drinks; we are simply looking at youth stereotyping. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ELikewise, with the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill the focus is on young drivers. I acknowledge the work that Miss Fenton has done with her amendments, but the Green Party will not be voting for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EAs the former youngest member of Parliament\u2014I acknowledge Jami-Lee Ross, who was just here\u2014I wanted to oppose this bill. Getting my licence at 15 years old was an important part of my journey to adult life, as I know it is for lots of young people. Because of the terrible state of our public transport in many our provincial and rural towns, young people do not have options. We in this Committee may be surprised, but many 15-year-olds provide income to their wh\u0101nau. They are out working hard, and they need to get to work somehow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThis was a challenge for me and my caucus to discuss, but we looked at the evidence and I think it is pretty compelling. Australia has a 60 percent lower accident rate for the same age bracket. We support the raising of the minimum driving age to 16 years old. We support further initiatives when it comes to driver training. I note that in Germany it costs around \u20AC2,000 to \u20AC4,000, I understand, to get a driver\u2019s licence. Although I do not advocate for that in this Chamber, I think we should strengthen driver training. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EClearly, the main thing we need to do for young people between the ages of 15 and 16, who will not be able to drive, is to give them better public transport. Unfortunately, that is not happening under this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Greens support the lowering of the blood-alcohol limit for under-20-year-olds, but we think this should be done only in conjunction with the general lowering of the blood-alcohol limit for adults. There are two issues here. There is the transition: someone who is almost 20 can have only 0.03 grams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood, yet a day later, on their birthday, they can go all the way up to 0.08 grams, which is totally outside the bounds of the OECD average. New Zealand is an international outlier when it comes to this limit. There will be transition problems, and I acknowledge that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThere is also an issue of consistency: the blood-alcohol limit for young people should be the same as the limit for adults. We are sending the wrong message. We are sending young drivers the message that we do not trust them with alcohol when, in fact, the problem is a broader cultural problem. It is the same with the Alcohol Reform Bill. Ninety-two percent of our problem drinkers in New Zealand are over the age of 30. We cannot stereotype young drivers. We acknowledge that there is work to be done here; enough will be said about the 0.05 limit today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI challenge a couple of the comments made by the Minister. He said there is not enough evidence. I understand that 300 international reports show this evidence. The experts, and the people who produce Safer Journeys, were pretty compelling in their argument that we could save between 15 and 33 lives. I do not believe that the New Zealand Transport Agency plucked those numbers out of thin air. There is an evidential basis for lowering the blood-alcohol limit. We are simply moving into line. Lowering the limit is not going out on a limb; it is simply moving into the OECD average. It is simply listening to the World Health Organization, which is the expert. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe proposal to lower the blood-alcohol limit is clearly popular. We have had a public consciousness shift over the last couple of decades when it comes to the drinking level. We are missing the opportunity to lower the blood-alcohol limit. The bill is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. We have the public behind us, we have the evidence behind us, and we have the desire. I do not know why the Minister did not advocate in his Cabinet for lowering the blood-alcohol limit. I thought the Minister was going to advocate for lowering the blood-alcohol limit after the work he did in the media around his wine consumption and driving. What happened in Cabinet? I would love for the Minister to take a call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u00221e57c223364149deac7676c95c0fae64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e57c223364149deac7676c95c0fae64\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me pleasure to stand and speak on Part 1 of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EIn large part, the ACT Party supports the bill and agrees with most of its initiatives. Most of the initiatives make a good deal of sense, particularly the provisions on education for young drivers. I take on board the points the Minister of Transport made when he took a call just before the Green member Gareth Hughes to talk about the initiatives he has put in place on education for young drivers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe Green member made a very pertinent point when he said that problem identification is very important. That is absolutely correct, because unless you are able to identify the problem accurately, there is no way you can get the solution right\u2014except the odd time by good luck.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022577c6d9d517c4f8880b9b26916d54d51\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member. It is for use of the word \u201Cyou\u201D. The member keeps bringing the Chair into the debate\u2014twice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022343cbcbc83c64eab9f9640ec0da3077c\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies, Mr Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EOne cannot get the solutions right if one has not identified the problem correctly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe Minister spoke about two particular initiatives in Part 1 that are relevant for the ACT Party, because we will be having a split vote on Part 1. Two initiatives, in particular, concern two of our members\u2014that is, me and Sir Roger Douglas\u2014first, the initiative in clause 12 about raising the minimum age for driver licensing from 15 to 16; and, second, the initiative in clause 23 to lower the blood-alcohol limit for the under-20s to virtually nothing, apart from a general fudge factor. Those two issues are important. We support in principle the reasoning the Minister gave for putting in place the package around young drivers, but not those two particular details, because I am not sure that the problem definition has been well identified and looked at as a whole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EWhy are we different from Australia in our road deaths rate? My understanding is that it is not just the younger drivers who are affected but everybody across the board. Three things seem to me to be very important when we look at why we have difficulty on our roads. I call them the three \u201CE\u201Ds. The first is education, the second is enforcement of the laws we already have in place, and the third is engineering\u2014the state of our roads. Many other countries have those three \u201CE\u201Ds\u2014for want of better terminology\u2014better sorted that we have in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EOf late in the past decade, the engineering of our roads has improved significantly. I know that the Minister has worked long and hard in that regard to improve the state of our roads. For many years we had roads that really were substandard. The camber was wrong and we had tight corners. We had difficulty largely because of our engineering. It has been improving, but we still have some way to go yet. I applaud the Minister on his initiatives. In the ACT Party\u2019s view, he is doing absolutely the right thing in focusing on that part of the infrastructure for the nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E Education has also improved. I look back on when I got my driver\u2019s licence. As many other members will remember, getting one\u2019s driver\u2019s licence was about hopping in the car and having a spin around the corner or around the block with the local policeman. That is certainly how I got my licence. It gave one an enormous amount of confidence but did not necessarily make one a very good driver. Education is hugely important, and although the ACT Party is rarely in favour of compulsion, I am in favour\u2014because I have seen it with my own children\u2014of putting in place defensive driving courses. I think they significantly improve drivers\u2019 skill and awareness and improve outcomes. I am all in favour of that sort of initiative. The education component of the bill is hugely important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe third thing is enforcement. We already have pretty sound laws in place. They are let down by the lack of enforcement. If there is one thing we should do it is focus hugely on enforcing the current laws we have before we change what is in place and put in new things. It seems to me that it would be better to concentrate our efforts on improving the enforcement of many of the things we already have\u2014whether that be blood-alcohol levels or some of the initiatives for young drivers. Those sorts of things need to be focused on\u2014engineering, education, and enforcement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u00222e331edf48a64d8ebe5d56a7e206a1c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e331edf48a64d8ebe5d56a7e206a1c6\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair, for the opportunity to speak on the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. I will start by saying that although Labour supports the bill, we have already made it clear that there are a number of areas where we think it lacks teeth. Make no mistake; we will support the bill. We support measures such as the zero limit for repeat drink-drivers. That is a no-brainer. We support having a zero limit for drivers under 20, as the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Transport, pointed out, to send a strong signal to those younger drivers to not drink at all if they are planning to get behind the wheel. We also support the interlocks. Using technology to make sure we can crack down on repeat drink-drivers is another good measure in the bill, as is making sure we get tougher on recidivist drink-drivers by doubling the minimum prison time for drunk and drugged reckless driving causing death. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned earlier, a number of my colleagues have already mentioned a couple of areas where we think the bill comes short of the mark. The obvious issue we have put attention on in the Committee today is the failure of the Government to recognise that there is a large amount of public support for reducing the blood-alcohol content level from 0.08 to 0.05. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill is an appropriate title for this bill. I went looking for a measure that would take strong action to lower the blood-alcohol level from 0.08 to 0.05. It was not in the road safety measures or in the other provisions, and we believe that it should have been, especially at a time when the Minister had the opportunity for cross-party support late last year with the member\u2019s bill that Darren Hughes put forward. We would have got broad cross-party support to make sure we could take real measures to reduce the number of alcohol-related deaths on our roads. That was a lost opportunity. What did we get? We got another 2-year study to look at the effect on drivers who are found to have a blood-alcohol level of between 0.08 and 0.05. As Gareth Hughes mentioned before, studies over a number of decades plainly show that if we send a signal to the public that we will not tolerate that level of alcohol in drivers\u2019 systems, then the number of deaths on our roads will reduce. What do we have? We have 2 more years of stalling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EBefore I hear a barrage of heckling that Labour did not do anything in the 9 years it was in Government, I say that we are in the here and now. We have the opportunity to look forward. We had an opportunity for cross-party support. We have a bill before us that we support, as I said, but we also have a lost opportunity to take real action on the roads. Unfortunately, instead of taking pragmatic action, we have politics. From a Minister who cares about optics, we have no action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe issue is really about what happens on our roads, and the Minister has already talked about his own personal experience. He said that it is just ridiculous that he can drink three-quarters of a bottle of wine and still be able to legally get out there on the road. Most New Zealanders think that, too. It is a shame the Minister does not have the courage of his personal convictions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecd234d77dd5437faf4d9a12daef4b98\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot challenge a member\u2019s courage; that is a personal reflection. The member will withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022873fbab864d24369b5faca276b78725d\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. It is a shame that the personal opinion of the Minister is not reflected in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAs we have said, this is about a priority. We have an opportunity with the bill in front of us now. The priority is\u2014and there is plenty of media coverage about this\u2014that New Zealanders do want the blood-alcohol level to be reduced. Some research from UMR Research in the New Zealand Herald on 19 May found that 70 percent of respondents supported lowering the allowable level of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood to 50 milligrams. Again, in the Otago Daily Times on 9 April 2010, a poll of 500 people found that 63 percent supported the lowering of the adult blood-alcohol limit from 80 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood to 50 milligrams. That poll also found that 84 percent were in favour of having a zero blood-alcohol limit for drivers under 20. Here is another statistic that may be of interest to members from Hamilton: in a poll of 418 Hamilton people conducted by researchers for the Waikato Times on 1 September\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebb97958be1c4b1d8f26e7f4f4b7d53e\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Very good city.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b021d84fef61470b934cbd87fc33337b\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014ha, ha\u201468 percent of people said that they were in favour of lowering the blood-alcohol limit. Let us also go to the Timaru Herald on 27 July last year\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022403d5eef0a80448498e9933f8c378cce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022403d5eef0a80448498e9933f8c378cce\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E One of the prerogatives of the Minister, of course, is that he gets to take a call whenever he wants, and when he did he probably stole about 95 percent of the things that I wanted to say on the two most important aspects of Part 1 of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. But I will persevere, nevertheless, because I think there is plenty more to say about it, and I am very happy to flesh out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f861847c53f0482897e9f9c389914997\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, trying to upstage the Minister now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f685a35fa54141e3abe287da48ed869f\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously ministerial material.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022416225355efc42279773ef62bd576493\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014thank you; I appreciate the further endorsement from the members on the other side, but not in transport, I am sure\u2014the issue of evidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWe are really talking about risk and harm reduction. We have heard from the Labour members that they are absolutely hell-bent on reducing the blood-alcohol concentration level to 0.05 grams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood because the current level is high-risk, and because it is obvious that we should be doing more in that area. But in a strange kind of double backflip, they are taking a very libertarian view about the age at which someone can get a driver\u2019s licence, in the face of the relative risks of serious injury or death in those two cohorts. I will quote the results\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263476a1020c344f694a60f161ba95ba3\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Why aren\u2019t we doing a 2-year study on that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227098c57fa910480db317ba309e5bfee5\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, let us just look at the studies that have already been done, because there is quite a bit of data about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EFirstly, let us talk about the relative risk of a blood-alcohol concentration of between 0.05 grams and 0.08 grams. I will quote the Safer Journeys strategy, which says we do not know the exact extent of the harm caused by drivers in that area. However, between 2004 and 2008 it is estimated that adult drivers with a blood-alcohol content within that range were responsible for at least 7 deaths and 45 serious injuries. So we are talking about fewer than 2 deaths a year of people who have had alcohol in their systems within that range. The document does not say whether those blood-alcohol concentrations actually caused the fatal accidents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ELet us turn, then, to young drivers, because I think that young drivers are at far greater risk. Young New Zealanders aged between 15 and 24 are 14 percent of the population, but they have 37 percent of the fatal crashes. They have killed more people than older drivers. For each young, at-fault driver killed, 1.3 other drivers have been killed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2c11109bcf24b16a57a29f86dd88000\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: Are you going to set the legal age at 25, mate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200d653271f374d90a6a143ccf2604029\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is exactly my point. Mr Shearer asks that question. What would we do about that? The easiest way to solve that problem is to set a driver age of 25, or 30. But why stop there? We might make a driving age of 50. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe point is that we accept a level of risk in everything we do. That is what life and living is about. The question is whether we accept the right risks and target the right harms. In focusing on our young, we recognise that the fact of simply being young, simply being aged from 15 to 19, will increase the risk of having a fatal accident by five times, when alcohol has not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca21d9f58d294ebe9864de818005ebac\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: Is that the same for males and females?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238f90dc2c53b4b94989296951ee428b6\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: No. Actually males are at greater risk, so gender is a factor. There are a number of contributing factors to risk on our roads, but this bill targets one specific risk and increases the driving age. I mean, I do not know how many studies there are about the development of the prefrontal cortex in young males. However, the paradox to changing the driving age is that although we know that the younger we are, the greater at risk we are, the only way we can learn to drive is by doing it\u2014by gaining that experience. So the Government has to accept that paradox. I think the Government has set a very, very good balance in both increasing the driver age and increasing the number of supervised hours that are required before someone gets a full licence. I am absolutely amazed that Labour is opposing that\u2014more dog-whistle politics, I suspect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI will come back to the evidence regarding a drop to 0.05 grams, because the Minister mentioned the United Kingdom, which is a fascinating study. Our fatal injury rate due to accidents is 82 percent higher than the United Kingdom\u2019s, notwithstanding that that country also has a blood-alcohol content legal limit of 0.08 grams. So there are so many other factors at work. The United Kingdom is a country geographically about the same size as ours, but it has a population that is about 15 times greater than ours. It has the infrastructure to create the sort of engineering that Heather Roy is talking about in respect of safer roads. But I think also in respect of the lowering of the blood-alcohol limit studies\u2014and there are 300 of them, and not a single one has been quoted yet by Labour\u2014those studies show high levels of co-relation, and often use language like \u201CThat strategy resulted in a reduction in the fatal accident rate.\u201D But it is not actually true to say that one caused the other. The simple fact is that we just do not know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u00220d39a59bc8e04b428c24343101994d0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d39a59bc8e04b428c24343101994d0e\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E I take a little bit of exception to what the member Michael Woodhouse was just talking about. Last week Sir Peter Gluckman came out with a very good report about basing legislation and policies on evidence. Evidence has been used in a rather ad hoc way in Parliament today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003ELet me look, for example, at the road age\u2014the driving age. Our road death rate per 100,000 in 2005 was 9.9, which was slightly above the OECD average of 9.5. We all agree in this House\u2014there is no disagreement\u2014that we need to improve our road death rate. But if we look at the US as well as the OECD, we see that all those countries have a higher driving age, yet in the US the road death rate is 14\u2014about five deaths higher per 100,000 than here in New Zealand\u2014Poland\u2019s rate is 14, Belgium\u2019s is 10, Portugal\u2019s 11, and Spain\u2019s 10. If we go down the list of OECD countries we find that those countries, even though they have a driving age that is higher than New Zealand\u2019s, have a greater rate of road deaths. We can selectively look at the UK and Australia and say that their road death rates are lower than New Zealand\u2019s so we must be failing in some way. But I tell Mr Woodhouse that if he goes across to Australia and drives around there, he will find that the roads are different. They are quite different from New Zealand\u2019s roads. The weather conditions are very different. Some of the driving conditions are very, very different. New Zealand has much more difficult driving conditions than Australia. I can tell members what else is different in Australia. It has a blood-alcohol limit of 0.05 grams, rather than 0.08 grams. Australians have been smart enough to bring down the limit. I think statistics and evidence are being used rather selectively in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EI come to one other point. I think we all are talking about the same things. We all want the same things from this legislation. We support the Minister\u2019s zero limit for repeat drink-drivers and zero limit for drivers under 20. I think it is logical. We support the alcohol interlocks for repeat offenders, and the doubling of the minimum prison time for drunk, drugged, or reckless driving causing death. We all agree with those, so, in that list, why cannot we also agree on a reduction from 0.08 grams to 0.05? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EI say to Mr Woodhouse that the answer is not in the evidence but in the way the debate has been carried out in this House. What happened was the Prime Minister asked the Ministry of Transport for an opinion on whether people would be over the legal limit after one glass of wine. He was so concerned about what he thought the answer was that he decided we would not do that. It was all about polls; it was not about evidence, at all. When Darren Hughes put up his member\u2019s bill Mr Key was willing to have a conscience vote on it, but he got rolled by his caucus\u2014that is, Steven Joyce, who would have looked rather stupid, having stood up in this House and said he did not want a conscience vote and did not agree with having one. Like Gareth Hughes I would have liked to be a member of that National caucus so that I could have found out what went on when the Prime Minister did the about-face on the conscience vote and agreed to a party vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EHere is a front-page article from the Bay of Plenty Times. It details how four Bay of Plenty Times journalists each failed a breath test but only after consuming eight bottles of beer or five glasses of wine. One of their female reporters was rolling drunk on wine, and, amazingly, she blew under the limit. Importantly, all four thought they should not drive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1670f34815946739b73177fde3e3067\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1670f34815946739b73177fde3e3067\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I really appreciate the opportunity to speak on the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. I am in the interesting position of having been on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee when it was considering this legislation and, more recently, on the Justice and Electoral Committee when it has been dealing with the Alcohol Reform Bill. So I have been dealing with a lot of people submitting on questions around alcohol harm and drink-driving for quite some time now. That has meant I feel very, very strongly in support of the amendment that my colleague Darien Fenton has put up about reducing the blood-alcohol limit while driving. I want to go through the reasons for that, because I find it unbelievable that in this day and age, in light of all the evidence and practice in other countries, all of the submissions, and all of the views of the public, the Government is putting its head in the sand on this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EIn fact, I heard the Minister of Transport say earlier that this bill is not about social engineering; it is a transport matter. Well, actually, driving drunk is most certainly a transport matter. Driving drunk means people die. It means people get injured. Families lose family members, and friends lose their friends. So this is a very serious matter, and this bill is a huge opportunity. The reason it is a huge opportunity is that, unlike many other pieces of law reform where the Government has to show leadership, in this particular case the public are ahead of the Government on this matter. So it is not even a matter of having to show leadership and cop a few criticisms out there, or many criticisms; the public want to see this change. I have heard thousands of submissions now. We heard 90 hours of oral submissions on the Alcohol Reform Bill, and just about everybody raised the issue of dropping the blood-alcohol level. Those people were told that the issue was out of scope for that bill, but it was being dealt with elsewhere, in the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe reality is that it is not being dealt with here. In fact, this bill is the most pitiful response that one could possibly imagine. We are to do 2 years of research. How many people will die in that time? How many people will be injured in that time? It is an absolute disgrace. I say again it is unbelievable that the Government is not taking this opportunity when, in fact, the evidence is there and the public is willing to see the change. I feel confident that, in their heart of hearts, many National members opposite actually agree with dropping the blood-alcohol level to 0.05 grams. I bet members that is the case; I would put money on it. I urge those members to stand up, say something, and do the right thing, because this matter is critically important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EWe had many submissions, both on the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill and, currently, on the Alcohol Reform Bill, about why people feel that blood-alcohol levels should be dropped. There has also been the anecdotal kind of evidence and the rather public evidence created by journalists. I heard about one example of that when we were hearing submissions in Dunedin. It was a Christchurch Press stunt, if you like. The Christchurch Press journalists did it off-road; they did it on a racetrack. They got four young people driving, then they gave them alcohol and got them driving again. They watched and evidenced what happened and what changed in their driving. By the time those four people went over 0.08 grams they were absolutely unable to drive safely, and later they were aware of that. In fact, they made that comment themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI think we need to be really serious about this issue. Lowering the blood-alcohol level will save lives, and it will prevent somewhere between 320 and 686 injuries every year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00222bf962c38e29467893531cce64059e05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bf962c38e29467893531cce64059e05\u0022\u003EDAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Today we are discussing the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. First of all, I want to acknowledge that we are fortunate to have a Minister of Transport who has a desire to progress road safety in New Zealand and who is making a difference to the roads of New Zealand not only by building good roads but also by establishing effective rules and regulations around how we use those roads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EFor a decade a Minister in this Parliament has not taken the opportunity to put some decent rules in place that make some difference. Labour members come to this Chamber here tonight and spout on about how we should be doing this, that, and the other thing, but when they had their chance, they never did it. What they are saying does not ring true, because if we look at the fundamental policies of this legislation, we will understand why this legislation is framed in the way that it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe fundamental policy of this legislation is to look at at-risk drivers and then look at the youth who are part of that at-risk group. If we look at at-risk drivers in respect of alcohol, we see that they are well above the blood-alcohol level of 0.08. Those are the real at-risk drivers because they put other drivers on our roads at risk, and that is what the Minister talked about in relation to the British experience. The focus was on the real danger, not on the political expediency that Labour is trying to promote here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EYoung drivers are a big part of this policy as well. If members look at what we are doing, they will see that it is a two-pronged approach. We are looking at the driving age and we are talking about how we can make young people safer on the roads. I congratulate the Green Party, a party that promotes itself on supporting young people. It has seen that it is in the best interests of young people to have the minimum licensing age raised from 15 to 16, and the implementation of new rules on the drink-driving limit of young people as encapsulated in the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis legislation has two parts to save young people on the roads. The first relates to the minimum licensing age. Moving the minimum licensing age from 15 to 16 gives young people a chance to survive on our roads. Second, reducing the alcohol limit for young people to zero will save more young lives on New Zealand roads, and that is the important part of this legislation. This will lead to saving young people\u2019s lives on our roads in New Zealand, and we should be very, very mindful of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EOpposition members have talked about the Australian approach. They say that Australia dropped the blood-alcohol limit to 0.05. But we should look at the driving age there. People would not even be driving at 16 in Australia. In its graduated system, people are probably 17\u00BD or 18 before they actually drive. So to have that approach, we have to look at the other tests done in Australia and compare apples with apples; we should not compare one part with another without taking into account the fullness of its system, as one of the previous Labour speakers had done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis legislation is good legislation. It is there for road safety purposes. It is practical legislation that enables us to look at what other options there may be in the future. But it is legislation that will work. It is legislation that will make a big difference in saving our young people\u2019s lives on the roads, and it also looks at those high-risk drivers that we need to be taking into account in the future. This is good legislation. It is for road safety. It will save lives, and I congratulate the Minister as it passes through the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4d2cd5d71714830b3fe745a0e360bb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4d2cd5d71714830b3fe745a0e360bb4\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chairperson. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. It is my privilege to follow my colleagues and to speak on Part 1 of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. I obviously have not been here to listen to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee hearings, but, to begin, I state my support for initiatives that make the journeys of all New Zealanders on our roads safer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0c675bc7853475aaf94117d126fe9f0\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Did Phil write this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218264465d7964381921fb22a417f57b9\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL\u003C/span\u003E: No, I did, actually. It is devastating when we lose those we love through road crashes, and I support evidence-based initiatives that protect all of us when we are travelling on New Zealand roads, that address the design of our roads, that address the design and safety standards of our vehicles, and that reflect the current behaviours and needs of all New Zealanders and the roles they play within their families and communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI will specifically speak about the proposal to raise the minimum licensing age from 15 years to 16 years. I actually agree with some of the ACT members, which is interesting. Our Labour team does not support the increase from 15 years to 16 years, but we do support the extension in the learner-licensing period. We do not support this proposal, because there is no evidence that raising the age will reduce accidents for 15-year-olds. One cannot attribute teenage crash rates to the age at which we or our young people start driving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2a5938e306846f196b7f4b00a4f9708\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Why not make it 12, or 11?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2972890b709420790ed0e1da2c18d17\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL\u003C/span\u003E: No, 12 is ridiculous, is it not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221233cb467c3e45e8ab46f0439cb8ec7d\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Make it 25.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3016ce8ec934d95a473f0e540463a1b\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, make it 25; that was that member\u2019s answer. In essence, Labour supports an extended learner-licensing period that allows young drivers from the age of 15 to safely garner driving experience, and, hopefully, with a bit of maturity, to obtain their full driving privileges. We agree that young people who have limited driving skills are more at risk of having an accident, but this risk applies not only to 15-year-olds but to any person, whatever their age, when they start driving. It is about the act of driving, learning to drive, and the experience of driving, as opposed to the age one starts to drive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI support the position of Federated Farmers, which will probably shock some people over there, the Automobile Association, and Students Against Drunk Driving, who totally oppose raising the minimum driving age because of the impact on their communities of interest, and because it will not do much to increase road safety, which is the primary intention of this bill. The Federated Farmers spokesperson, Donald Aubrey, supports Labour\u2019s position that young people need to be supervised, and that extending the learner-licensing period from 6 to 12 months would improve safety, so that our young people would have greater opportunities to become good drivers. If one lives rurally, the reality is that one has to travel to get to school, work, and sports. I actually got in my first senior team when I was 12, but I remember when I was 15\u2014and that was a few years ago, obviously\u2014I had to learn to drive to get to my training. My parents actually encouraged me to get my licence early, which enabled me to make my netball training. I then got into the South Waikato team, and I eventually made it into the Silver Ferns. The reality is I could not have done that if I did not have the opportunity to drive. This proposal not only limits the opportunities of young people like me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222823371ced6414c92ac60f6eb5c2fa3\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Somebody would have dropped you off. I used to get my brothers to drop me off all over the place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229095387c23bb4347b28cb62428cf77c0\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014is that right; well, I say \u201CGood on you\u201D\u2014but also creates more pressure on parents and caregivers. We have to look at families within the wider context, particularly those who live rurally. Actually, John Carter will know. He would support the fact that we should not be increasing the driving age. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI acknowledge that New Zealanders have a high teenage crash rate for 15 to 19-year-olds, but, again, I highlight that no research can attribute the rates of crashes to the age at which those people started driving. I reiterate Labour\u2019s position that an extended supervised period, from 6 months to 12 months, where young people have more supervised driving experience, is what is needed. Why does the Government over there not put its hand in its pocket and make sure our kids are getting the education they need? It is focused on national standards; what about creating some standards in this area, and ensuring our children can continue to participate, as I said, in sport and other activities? Why is the Government not doing that? I am here to support my colleagues, and I thank them for providing me with the notes that have enabled me to participate in this debate. We will continue to advocate for 15-year-olds to continue to have an opportunity to be licensed. We put pressure on the Government to ensure 15-year-olds have the skills and the education to make them safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022e72aeeebf7194fb5a5c0547ae5ba3c91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e72aeeebf7194fb5a5c0547ae5ba3c91\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. I acknowledge the debate we have had in the Committee on this important bill, the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. We have talked about the good: the alcohol interlocks and the common-sense changes. We have talked about the missing: the change to 0.5 in the blood-alcohol level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EMissing from this debate, and missing from the Safer Journeys document, is the single most effective thing we could do to reduce the road toll in New Zealand: take cars off the road. It is simply to give motorists an alternative\u2014a real alternative\u2014to driving. I am talking about better buses, better trains, walking, and safer cycling. With petrol at $2.19 a litre at the moment, which is the most expensive it has been in New Zealand\u2019s history, I asked the Minister of Finance what the plan was. I asked whether the Government was even planning to start planning to reduce our dependency on oil. I got a no. The Minister said that Kiwis are smart, they have alternatives, and they will respond to those market signals and find the alternatives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister of Transport what Safer Journeys did, and what his Government is doing, to give Kiwi motorists realistic alternatives. I am seeing regional railways potentially closing across the country. I am seeing the railway station closing in Wellington. I am seeing $10.7 billion spent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022061a5be5f02a496ebf1f75e22b9e288f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I remind the member that this debate is not about railways; it is quite specific. When we are in the Committee stage we must focus on Part 1 and not extend beyond it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266686d2357a0489db441a7366ff6ec68\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: I guess I was bringing in the broader transport context, because the most effective thing we could do is take cars off the road. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI will read briefly from our submission to Safer Journeys, which mentioned what we should be doing to make our roads safer\u2014which is not in Part 1 of this bill. We endorsed the lowering of the speed limits. We would increase the adoption of lower speed limits in urban arterials, and we would increase the effectiveness of speed limits. In our submission on Safer Journeys we talked about cycling and the need for the 1.5m To Survive campaign to support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn a nutshell, this bill has a whole bunch of common-sense parts to it, but it misses in terms of the 0.5 blood-alcohol limit. It misses the whole point about the most effective thing we can do to save motorists\u2019 lives, to save the 400 to 600 people who potentially die every year in New Zealand as a result of air transport pollution, and\u2014as we read about in the Dominion Post last week, pretty tragically\u2014to help the impact on premature births from living near motorways. We need to be doing more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022970c2e9f15d244d890220cff3a5a1db5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022970c2e9f15d244d890220cff3a5a1db5\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I will rise and take just a short call; there are a couple of things I omitted to do earlier. One was to thank and acknowledge the Hon Peter Dunne, who has had a bill on raising the driving age in this House for a couple of years now. He, of course, has indicated his support for these measures. I would also like to acknowledge the support of the majority of the ACT Party members. Surprisingly, I found myself on the same side as the Greens, at least until Mr Hughes gave his second speech, and then things sort of diverted once again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EI thought I would raise an issue of consistency for the Labour Opposition. On Thursday, 15 April 2010 the Labour leader told the New Zealand Press Association that his party\u2019s 43 MPs would back the law change to lift the driving age from 15 to 16. That is quite interesting. What we are seeing today is possibly a bit of a revolt against the leader\u2019s direction in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a12f979daea49afb493a9f0b361b8de\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Table the document!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cda672a3764f40d48275658c1add5b58\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Jones can check the New Zealand Press Association story by all means. I suppose my comment to Opposition members, because they have been flipping and flopping around on this issue\u2014at least some of them have; we are not sure what the leader still thinks\u2014is that perhaps they might like to make up their minds and join the evidence-based solution before they get a chance to vote on this part. They have to be aware that their leader said he would support it, so if they vote against it, or vote in favour of their own Supplementary Order Paper, then I suppose it has to qualify as a little bit of a slap in the face for the leader and a bit of a revolution. I suppose that is a judgment for the senior members of the House to make, and it is fair enough that they should do that. I think they probably need to make a careful decision about this Supplementary Order Paper before they dive in. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9bbb7bdcea74cedba3618549f4ccad4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9bbb7bdcea74cedba3618549f4ccad4\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to take a call in the Committee stage of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill on Part 1. As some of my colleagues have mentioned previously, drink-driving is a really big issue in the Waikato, where I come from, and in particular in Hamilton. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI know that the local Government members have been trying to confuse the issue by telling people who are concerned about the lack of leadership from the Government on reducing the legal blood-alcohol limit for drink-driving that it is not an issue for the Alcohol Reform Bill, that it is a Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill issue, and that we will deal with it in that bill. Mr Bennett is shaking his head, but I have been at a meeting where Mr Macindoe said exactly that to submitters who wanted to submit on the issue of reducing the legal blood-alcohol limit in the consideration of the Alcohol Reform Bill. They were told by the Government MPs that the Alcohol Reform Bill was the wrong bill. Those MPs tried to look sympathetic about it and as if they agreed with the audience. They said people would get their chance when the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill came forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EOf course, now that that bill is before us, where are those Hamilton MPs on the issue of reducing the legal blood-alcohol limit? They are not pushing for that measure to be included in the bill. Nanaia Mahuta and I are the only Hamilton-based MPs who are pushing for a lowering of the blood-alcohol limit\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b4578519daf44278cd4ff43fe769b84\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re not Hamilton-based. Where do you live?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcec2d6dca9748308b88b095f2b552d3\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: I live in Hamilton, as Mr Bennett well knows, but I thank him for allowing me to clarify that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289295a336c7b4e10b8330a1638baa437\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t live in Hamilton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277b18b1b28a04f2c813549c8a31231bd\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: I can tell Mr Bennett that, yes, I do. He might want to look at the new register that has come out. I live in Hamilton, and the member will have to swallow his words, as he will many more times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI will come back to the issue, which is about who in Hamilton is prepared to stand up for the view that was so clearly expressed in the survey from the Waikato Times in which 68 percent of the people of Hamilton said they thought the blood-alcohol limit was not good enough. Only 19 percent of the people in that survey of 418 people in Hamilton said they agreed with the current limit. The Government is on the side of 19 percent of Hamiltonians. That is where the Government sits on the issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThe other 86 percent of Hamiltonians will be looking towards this side of the House to represent their views that the limit ought to be lower. That is what those Hamiltonians firmly believe. Why do they believe that? It is because they have had enough of the carnage on the roads. They have also had enough of how alcohol affects our entire community, to the detriment of the community. They have had enough of that and they want leadership on the issue of the blood-alcohol limit. Sadly, with this bill, they are not getting leadership from the Government on that issue, but they can look to the Labour benches for leadership, because Labour is prepared to stand up and vote for a reduction in the blood-alcohol limit for drink-driving for over-20-year-olds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI know that the Chair ruled that the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Bill perhaps has nothing to do with railways, but I can say that the bill has everything to do with other forms of transport, because they are a way that road safety can be improved. The Government is absolutely opposed to putting in a passenger train service for Hamilton and Auckland. That is another issue on which Hamiltonians will have to look to this side of the House to have addressed. Only Nanaia Mahuta and I are standing up and fighting for getting a passenger train service between Hamilton and Auckland\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f91680122e654bea9cb20ce1585102f0\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Relevancy! It\u2019s got nothing to do with trains.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223774be0dd7c4933ba30a7db9d4b064b\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014which, of course, will improve road safety, and I say to Mr Quinn that I believe that road safety is what we are debating. A passenger train service, along with some of the measures in the bill, will improve road safety. Is the Government interested in pursuing that train service? Not only is the Government not interested in pursuing the train service but also it is in outright opposition to getting that very logical, sensible service between the fourth-largest city and the largest city in our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u00221bf1fb0c76314738bd25177691fbb141\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bf1fb0c76314738bd25177691fbb141\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I like it when the Hon Shane Jones is in the Chamber, because he brings some interesting questions to the debate. Time and time again he says that the bill in front of us\u2014the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill\u2014is Labour policy. He said three or four times that it is Labour policy. I do not know whether he says it just to put people off or whether he seriously believes it. But if he seriously believes it, then why do we not already have this measure? When Labour was in Government not so long ago, why did it not implement any of this, or is it a case of saying to Parliament and to the New Zealand public: \u201COh, well, because they\u2019re doing it, we want it too and we want to say it\u2019s our policy.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThe fact of the matter is that the people made a choice 3 years ago, and that choice was to get some infrastructure going, to get some benefit out of our own country, to look after the lives of young people and not to kick them around, to make sure that we put in place some things that will help\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bdb2e26d5cf4f208e3a13f6e5a2f34d\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Relevance! Talk about parking wardens. Tell us about parking wardens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247dce5e111c34de4aa5597732bb38c04\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: I will tell Mr Jones what is relevant: we are here and he is there, so that is enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b11459b69fbf4af8ba4c35b4d60133e9\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: Well, do what\u2019s right then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285b6b4c5d9d44770ae8774a9cfa5a34d\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Goodness gracious me! I can hear the cackle from Sherwood Forest. Sue Moroney asked who would speak on behalf of the people of Hamilton. I will give her two names, and they are elected people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc9c6e58beec4c69b64855d657935a0a\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Nanaia Mahuta.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e2e3e3a54ca4d4f85b45aa56210e318\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is one name. The man cannot count; it is one name. In fact, I could give three or four names, but one of them is David Bennett and another one is Tim Macindoe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dfa38849e8d4691bb647fe51744f0de\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: How is he voting on this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217de7593608247e3a63e3279ed53ea15\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: If the member for wherever, who lives in Matamata but decides to say that she lives in Hamilton, wants to get up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273930572c7ee4368864370b865397b4c\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. The assertion that the member just made about where I reside is absolutely incorrect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228aa9abae437042c6b24cae193030048b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I know where the member resides. This part of the debate has been light-hearted\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d784b0e6a47a4445894d6d1b5ae4d93f\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219ab16cb42e24a05879ff80a400bc9ba\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I am on my feet, ruling. That is not a point of order. It is a debating point, and I am sure that if the member gets another call she might like to respond to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b08a36f0b784a48a154ada8edf1a25b\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Here is another name\u2014another member who looks after the folks of Hamilton\u2014that I want to throw into the hat: Lindsay Tisch. He looks after\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b85263ca0c234fb19c4ae36dac81891c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: One thing the member cannot do is bring the Chair into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fe893febe4f46a998a82f7e4ff9e252\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, Mr Chairperson, but you do a good job. This is all about making sure that young people are looked after, and that they are not kicked around and used as an excuse by members opposite to drop this, drop that, and drop something else. [Interruption] Well, if one listened to the barmy left, one might as well have a policy that nobody drinks and nobody drives\u2014a zero limit\u2014because that is where we are going if we listen to members opposite. This measure is not about hurting young people. It is about saving their lives and making sure that we are in the position\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b77c6fb123dd47c18315fddeaa387eaa\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: You had better read what you are voting for here, Tau, because you are voting for a zero rating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227796e572e0146ac89dfa1c5b4bd0477\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b3864693bb445c69504584892030b93\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re voting for a zero blood-alcohol level in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8bf6e6487df4f3fa33ba5f1b4b944ee\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: The member should not be silly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3e4627e11d34c97a03b96367e9287ef\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: You are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227901ec23f8054be7abd535570f7ac8a3\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: The member should not be silly. Of course we are not. We are with young people, but not overall. On this side of the Chamber\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b23ceadc2bf43b5a5e382c79dec5977\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Members will quieten down, please. I would like to hear what the speaker is saying. This is meant to be a debate, and I would actually like to hear something about the bill. The member has less than a minute to go. Could we just concentrate on what Part 1 says.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271a6a92a2b854bdbac8f2ff480b60bfc\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: I will try to fit it in, Mr Chairman. Here is something: this is not about everybody. Of course it is about young people, but it is not about young people alone. This bill is about safe driving. It is about making sure people do not die or injure themselves when they are drinking and driving. That is what the bill is about. It is not about some ragtag mess driving a car down to the local video saloon. It is not about that, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd57afd5c4524437af48d05f8cdc1ee3\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Video saloon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fca5cc78ed3f4a0b89b7612631e1bbef\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that member had better go and ask Mr Jones about that. What we are here to do is make sure that young people are looked after.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022783a9cdfe8634aa2a46ca6f6eba91530\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022783a9cdfe8634aa2a46ca6f6eba91530\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E If there were ever an advertisement for reducing to a zero-alcohol intake, that speech was it from the Hon Tau Henare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a827b76946548148351a5f79fa8ac47\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. One cannot say, suggest, or even imply that a member has been drinking. I want to go further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275a8c35a07874cbdb8693a372974a842\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I hear what the member says. I just remind members to be very careful about what one says. Let us have a debate on Part 1. Time is running out and I would like to think we could actually say something constructive about Part 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb9fcca0b14a4ce4b7d2dc9385350a21\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to make a personal statement to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a371aca69c1742fea37a4ad788364ce7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: About what?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bff25eda9f54970beb0bdae7b3d2e1f\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: About the accusation that has been made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1b31c1c682a49acb967d4ea81fc7505\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293eb4b38453b4ab6a1a28f79ec35d027\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I want to go on record as saying that I have never and will never take a drink, or even look like I take a drink. Everybody I know who knows me knows that I actually hardly ever touch a drop of the devil\u2019s water. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff32018feb8e495dbdb7b869e9b690cb\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to apologise. We all realised he was sober when he made that speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a341e4833ee44a19b30dd5d9b596da9\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: That does not add any value, whatsoever. The member has made a personal statement. That is the end of the matter, and let us keep it on those terms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e67004d801841d5b584aca82e0eeed6\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise for the offence that was taken. I also take issue with what the Minister Steven Joyce said about the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill simply being a transport issue, because it is not. It is about my uncle Tony, who wrapped himself around one of the three bridges between Kawakawa and Moerewa some 30 years ago. It is about him, the widow he left behind, his seven kids, and the impact that that accident has had on our wh\u0101nau in those 30 years. It is about the young fellow I played rugby with 5 years ago. He did not actually have enough time to play enough games with us for me to get to know him properly and know his name. I played rugby with him one Saturday, and the next morning at 7 o\u2019clock he too wrapped himself around a bridge at Waipapakauri. It is about the young fellow whose tangi I attended in the valley across from where I come from, who had an accident, and when we looked at him in his casket, we could see that his head had caved in. That is what it is about. It is about people\u2019s lives and the impact of deaths on families. That is what it is about. It is not simply about just getting in the car or on a motorbike and travelling from point A to point B. It is about people\u2019s lives. That is why we have to get it right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI agree with Gareth Hughes. We are talking about a land transport bill. As far as I am aware, trains do travel on land. If we could reduce the amount of heavy trucks and heavy vehicles transporting goods on our main roads, that would make things safer for us. In fact, new section 16A talks about a restriction of heavy traffic on roads. Let us have a restriction; let us move the heavy traffic and transport heavy goods by rail so that there is more space on our roads for cars. Let us look at actually maintaining the rail line between Whangarei and Auckland so that we can remove the heavy vehicles from roads in that region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ENew section 16A states: \u201CThe Agency \u2026 or another road controlling authority \u2026 may, by public notice, direct that any heavy traffic, or any specified kind of heavy traffic defined in the notice, may not proceed between any 2 places by way of any road or roads specified in the notice.\u201D I put in a plea for those of us who live in Kait\u0101ia and the far north that one of those places that heavy traffic may not travel between is Victoria Valley and Mangamuka Bridge. In between those two locations there are 13 kilometres of windy Northland road, and alluvial clay, which just cannot handle that heavy traffic. When people are driving between Victoria Valley and Mangamuka Bridge and come up behind a logging truck, there is nowhere to pass. When they can finally get past, they speed off ahead, and within 200 metres they come across another heavy logging truck. They overtake that one, finally, and then there is a third truck. These are the roading conditions we have to live with up in the far north on a daily basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ENo section in this bill drops the blood-alcohol level from 80 milligrams down to 50 milligrams. What evidence do we need other than looking in the newspapers and on the news every day and seeing the accidents and the fatalities? If we need evidence, why do we not just look at the news? That is the evidence we need. We do not need all those long reports to see what is happening to people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cd7a6d9dce04c6b9ca4fe42d529a709\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us what your uncle\u2019s BAC was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b4c9de5737e4ebf903a396dd6ea05c1\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E:Who cares what Michael Woodhouse thinks? Who really cares what he thinks? Michael Woodhouse is so removed from reality, like this National Government, that he actually does not know what is going on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u0022489fd30638f14963be915581b00eb885\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022489fd30638f14963be915581b00eb885\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak in the Committee stage of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, particularly on Part 1. This bill is all about improving road safety in New Zealand, and it really complements the Safer Journeys policy, which the Minister of Transport brought out earlier in the parliamentary term. It outlined the Government\u2019s policy to 2020. It is a very impressive document and an excellent policy, and I think the Minister has shown great leadership. Basically, he is implementing that policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThis legislation, and Part 1 in particular, targets the two key types of drivers who are a problem for our roads: young drivers and at-risk drivers. I will give members the statistics on why young drivers are an issue and are overrepresented in the statistics. Young people aged between 15 and 24, which is the definition of a \u201Cyouth\u201D, make up below 14 percent of our population. They represent 16 percent of all licensed drivers. Yet in 2008 they were involved in about 37 percent of all fatal crashes\u201437 percent of all fatal crashes\u2014and 38 percent of all serious injury crashes. If that does not paint a picture, nothing else will. Young drivers are a real problem on our roads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EOf course, there are also at-risk drivers. These are drivers who drink while driving, or drink despite having committed previous offences and do not adhere to the rules. Neither of those groups is particularly new; we have known about them for some time. Though we have known about them, little progress has been made, so this bill is long overdue. The Minister mentioned a shocking statistic: we have a 60 percent worse fatality rate among our young drivers than does Australia. That means we are seriously behind Australia and we need to address that statistic immediately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe other thing is that 72 percent of all alcohol-related crashes resulting in death\u2014there is a recent study from which data has been produced\u2014were associated with high-risk drivers. They are those with a previous drink-driving conviction, or a first-time offender who is 50 percent over the limit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EReally, Part 1 covers strategies to address those types of at-risk drivers. Those strategies include increasing the minimum driving age to 16, and I am absolutely supportive of that provision. I find it astonishing that the Labour Opposition wanted to retain the age of 15. Quite frankly, when I learnt to drive some 30-odd years ago the roads were not as dangerous as they are now. There were about 1 million vehicles on the road; now there are over 3 million, and the cars are considerably more powerful. Quite frankly, to be a driver on our roads we need our wits about us, and that extra year of maturity can help. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EDuring the consultation phase of the Safer Journeys documentation there was absolutely widespread support for increasing the age to 16. This is not a populist move; this is a move to help save lives, particularly the lives of our young drivers, who need more common sense. That extra year will give them that. I make no apology for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThe other measure is the zero blood-alcohol limit for those under 20. There are many other measures, such as alcohol interlocks, which bring technology solutions into this legislation. Importantly, the alcohol interlocks are not paid for by the State; they have to be paid for by the person who volunteers or wishes to use alcohol interlocks. There is no cost to the State for that measure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EObviously for drink-driving offenders there is a zero blood-alcohol limit. It is not acceptable for them to drink then drive, and it is not negotiable. Drink-driving offenders cannot drive at all with alcohol in their system. Of course, strengthening the penalties for causing death is another measure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI take the opportunity to talk about our alcohol culture. We have a problem with youth drinking and binge drinking. I know that the Alcohol Reform Bill, which is currently under consideration, will go some way to addressing that problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI take the opportunity to digress a little and talk about FebFast. When FebFast finished, the Christchurch earthquake had occurred and it was not really the time to congratulate members who had taken part. FebFast was an initiative whereby people elected not to drink alcohol for the month of February, and the money raised went to youth drink-driving prevention programmes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7ec2b1082404b47ae29241c9c94a703\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7ec2b1082404b47ae29241c9c94a703\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am taking a very short call on the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. I was surprised to hear the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Transport, say this bill is just a land transport road safety amendment bill. That completely ignores some of the evidence that came out in the Law Commission report on blood-alcohol levels. I was surprised to hear that from a Minister who I know in his heart believes he should take stronger measures on the blood-alcohol limit and change it to a limit we have always supported, from 0.08 grams to 0.05 grams of alcohol for every 100 millilitres of blood. The Minister in the chair knows that he should do this, but he says that this bill is only a transport issue. If it were, then in this bill we would be looking only at technical solutions for safety on the roads, like barriers, getting big trucks off the roads, freeing up road space, and other technical roading issues. But it is not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003ELabour initially supported this bill because we thought it built on our own approach to roading in the See You There\u2014Safe As policy statement we put out. It was picked up, very responsibly, by National with the Safer Journeys policy. We hoped this would be an all-embracing bill, but, sadly, we cannot support it in its entirety because the Minister is not lowering the blood-alcohol limit, and he is increasing the minimum driver age from 15 to 16. I do not want to hear members opposite saying Labour members are irresponsible in supporting a driver\u2019s licence coming in at 15, without adding that we are very, very strong on having a learner-licensing period in that time, and are supporting education initiatives for teaching young people how to be responsible drivers. I was appalled when a drive safely programme in one of the high schools in the Rotorua electorate, where I used to be the electorate MP, was cut. That programme was to teach young women drivers how to be safe when they were driving. Those sorts of initiatives, defensive driving education, which Labour supports, have now been cut. We support those initiatives, plus extending the learner-licensing period to 16, plus a zero-alcohol limit for young drivers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI was surprised to hear Jackie Blue, who is reasonable and had her statistics, bang on about young drivers. I live in a region where young people want to come into town and work at McDonald\u2019s, play sport on a Saturday, or go to clubs and they have to travel up to an hour to get there to partake in what I see as normal healthy young participation in community life. Will their parents now have to bring them into town? Labour saw it as only fundamentally correct to continue to support a minimum driving age of 15 for a licence, with a restricted learner-licensing period until 16, for those rural kids to be able to live a normal life and participate in normal healthy activities that young city kids can undertake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003ELabour sees this as a very important issue. We support the zero limit for repeat drink-drivers. We support the zero limit for drivers under 20. We support the initiative to have alcohol interlocks for repeat offenders. There is a lot in this bill that Labour supports. I think it is a pity the Minister did not do the brave thing MPs are elected to do, and that is to make policy to protect the public good. There was an ideal opportunity in this bill, and the Minister did not do the right thing or the responsible thing to lower the blood-alcohol level. The Minister knows it, and I think it is an absolute cop-out, when the Prime Minister has a Minister of Science and Innovation sitting beside him to advise him on what is the right thing to do, and when the Law Commission stated emphatically in its wide-ranging report\u2014it left no doubt in our mind\u2014that alcohol limits must come down. That was in the Law Commission\u2019s report. The Law Commission reports advise the Government of the day\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u00227a793dc175a94612b0bf98519356e6a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a793dc175a94612b0bf98519356e6a6\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (National\u2014Botany):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u002284aa27bfecec479f96d16f719051f0a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284aa27bfecec479f96d16f719051f0a6\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Just following on from the last speaker, I tell the Committee that the Green Party also supports much better access to good driving programmes. In some ways, the younger people we are talking about here have more recent training, have to study the road code, etc., to get their licence, have a learner-driver period, and are able to develop skills at a young age, compared with people who are a bit older, like many of us here\u2014me in particular. I got my driver\u2019s licence 44 years ago, and on no occasion in those 44 years have I been required to do any additional driving course, to do a defensive driving course, to look at the road code, or to do any tests\u2014absolutely nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWe have provisions in Part 1\u2014for instance, in clause 52, \u201CCompulsory attendance at driving improvement course or dangerous goods course\u201D, whereby the court may order compulsory driving tests, and things like that. It is good that those provisions are in the bill, because if people have committed offences, then they clearly are not up to it, in terms of safe driving. Sure, they should be put through a course, but what about the rest of the community? There should be courses available and encouragement for people to attend them. As the last speaker, Steve Chadwick, said, the Government is cutting back on funding for courses\u2014in this case, for younger people. But there should be more financial provision for driving courses for the whole community, and encouragement for people to attend them. At the moment these courses apply only to those at a very young age, when getting their licence, or to those at an older age whose sight might be going a bit, and they can take a test, as a lot of older people do. But in the many decades in between there is no requirement to do anything, or any encouragement to do anything, and I think that is pretty bad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThere is a provision in this part about heavy traffic, which states there can be a restriction on having heavy traffic on certain roads. Well, it is also good that that provision is there, but what is the Government doing, and what has it done over the last little while? It has extended the allowable weights for trucks so that we have bigger trucks and longer trucks on roads. That provision has come in from the Government\u2019s decisions. A very unsafe environment has been created, where the longer and heavier the trucks are, the more danger there is on the road. Obviously the longer the truck is, the more difficult it is to overtake it, and more cars will be taking the risk of overtaking a long truck and occasionally being caught up in a head-on collision, with people dying, which is what happens too frequently on our roads. No matter which braking system heavy trucks have on them, the heavier a truck is, the more difficult it will be to stop it. It will take that bit longer to stop it, which creates more dangers. Often I have noticed, unfortunately, that one of the problems we have on our roads is that people drive too close, including truck drivers. I often see trucks driving a very short distance behind much smaller cars, and I think: \u201COh, God, what happens if that car in front stops very suddenly?\u201D, which now and again happens. The heavier our trucks are, the more we get into that problem of accidents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWith those few comments, I say that I really support having much more resource devoted to making driving courses available to members of the community. Hopefully the courses will be free to give them that encouragement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022574999257293468d8ad5e2000a5da98f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022574999257293468d8ad5e2000a5da98f\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to take my first call in this debate on Part 1. To me, what we are looking at here, particularly in terms of the clauses relating to the blood-alcohol limit, is a triangle of intuition, evidence, and polling. On the first one, we know that the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Transport, had the right intuition. He said it. He said that it was \u201Cjust ridiculous\u201D and that he was surprised to find that after he drank three-quarters of a bottle of wine, legally he could still get behind the wheel. The Minister\u2019s first intuition was right. He is very worried, though\u2014and we know this from other issues\u2014about the optics of the situation, and that is where we come to the next thing: the evidence. He went looking and he asked what evidence there was. Interestingly, in the regulatory impact statement for this bill, we have some notion of the evidence from the Ministry of Transport. It went through the things that the Government could do: lower the adult drink-driving limit from a blood-alcohol content of 0.08 to 0.05 grams, lower the youth drink-driving limit from a blood-alcohol content of 0.03 to zero, and introduce infringement penalties for the proposed excess blood-alcohol offences. Then the ministry expected that these actions are estimated to save between 17 and 35 lives and to prevent between 363 and 729 injuries each year. That is the social cost of not making changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThat evidence was provided by the Minister\u2019s own advisers in the Ministry of Transport. But I know that the Minister is a man who has a bit of the accountant in him. He has a bit of the accountant in him, so he knows about the cost of everything and the value of nothing. We can talk to him about the costs, because the Ministry of Transport\u2019s advice went on to state that \u201CThis equates to an annual social cost saving of between $127.5 million and $254.5 million\u201D as at June 2009. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ENot only do we have the evidence of the social cost of not making these changes\u2014of what the Minister has not put forward in front of the Committee\u2014but also we have the economic cost. That is the evidence. The intuition was there, the evidence was there, but Mr Joyce has not gone ahead with that and we have to ask why that is. Well, perhaps we can tell why from a recent newspaper story about what the Prime Minister was worried about. It was about the Prime Minister being concerned about whether one glass of wine could put a person over the limit. In reply he was told that \u201Cthe public would react badly to a cut in the drink-drive limit\u2014even though research and polls show most drivers are keen to see the limit reduced.\u201D, and that is where it all went wrong. That is where it all went wrong for the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe intuition was there, the evidence was there, but his boss started to get nervous about the polling. If we know one thing, it is that this Minister worries about the polling. The focus groups were done. I am sure that they were pulled in. Mr Joyce would have been there. He would have been there on the other side of the one-way glass, looking in on the focus group, and getting nervous that his intuition was not there; he was not going to back it. The evidence was telling him that he had to do it for the good of New Zealand\u2014he had to lower that blood-alcohol limit\u2014but he would not do it because the polling was not going to stand up, because his boss started to get nervous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis is a situation, I say to Mr Joyce, when it is time to stand up and do the right thing. It is time to do the right thing that is based on evidence, that will save lives, that will save money in the economy, and that will save money for the health system. That is just plain good for New Zealand. But Mr Joyce still has an opportunity. We have an amendment in Darien Fenton\u2019s name on the Table that will make the change that the Minister\u2019s officials have told him is the right thing to do. They told him that he will achieve the objectives of the Safer Journeys strategy if he goes ahead and makes this change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EMr Joyce has stood up in this Chamber and he has played a bit of politics. He asked why Labour has not made this change. Around this Chamber I believe there is a consensus that this is the right thing to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204814e92ebff42328432a0b347c3950f\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Why didn\u2019t you do it the last time that you were in Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aa64108430e4847924a89a041f79359\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is the point, I say to Mr Henare. Now is the time for Mr Joyce to show the leadership. There is a consensus around this Chamber. There is not even really a debate about this change. I ask Mr Henare whether it is the wrong thing to do. The member can tell me whether it is the wrong thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d54929b2f58440ab922de30e1dbff4d\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: 10 years and nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ad4abf6eaf8421db951c3fd0793eaec\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is not an answer, I tell Mr Henare. I asked whether it is the wrong thing to do. This is the problem with Tau Henare; this is the problem with Steven Joyce. We have the evidence that says this is the right thing to do. The opportunity is there to back Darien Fenton\u2019s amendment and to make sure that the consensus that actually exists in this Committee can be brought into law. This is where the evidence is, this is where the Minister\u2019s intuition was, and he should go ahead with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u002278071d2e6d3444eea2e0232c831e5a8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278071d2e6d3444eea2e0232c831e5a8a\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002208af891d63aa4d3da02f3c5210b7bfb1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5bcb844dbc94711a6b466efa518f03e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5bcb844dbc94711a6b466efa518f03e\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I do not want to question your acceptance of the closure motion, but Part 1 is an enormous part in the bill and we had several members still standing to take a call. Part 2 is very small\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c82d1ac7445d457da79a1a64c3694ef8\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I hear the member. The voting process has already started and I cannot change that. We have spent an hour and 52 minutes on Part 1, and everybody who was going for the call was given a call. The voting is now in process and we will continue with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Darien Fenton to Part 1 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003Eto omit clause 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d5081b16f9f648b989764470d34dbe7c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 79\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; Green Party 9; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000788\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Darien Fenton to Part 1 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000789\u0022\u003Eto insert the following clause after clause 23:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000790\u0022\u003E23A\tSection 11 amended\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000791\u0022\u003ESection 11 is repealed and the following section substituted:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000792\u0022\u003E\u201C11\tDrivers not to exceed specified alcohol limits\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000793\u0022\u003E\t\u201CA person may not drive or attempt to drive a motor vehicle while\u2014\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000794\u0022\u003E\u201C(a)\tthe proportion of alcohol in the person\u2019s breath, as ascertained by an evidential breath test subsequently undergone by the person under section 69, exceeds 250 micrograms of alcohol per litre of breath; or\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000795\u0022\u003E\u201C(b)\tthe proportion of alcohol in the person\u2019s blood, as ascertained from an analysis of a blood specimen subsequently taken from the person under section 72 or section 73, exceeds 50 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood.\u201D\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221b8ed281ccb44a93bca7f064be33e5cb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000796\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Darien Fenton to Part 1 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000797\u0022\u003Eto insert the following clause after clause 23:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000798\u0022\u003E23B\tSection 56 repealed\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000799\u0022\u003E\u201C56\tContravention of specified breath or blood-alcohol limit\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000800\u0022\u003E\u201C(1)\tA person commits an offence if the person drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road while the proportion of alcohol in the person\u2019s breath, as ascertained by an evidential breath test subsequently undergone by the person under section 69, exceeds 250 micrograms of alcohol per litre of breath.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000801\u0022\u003E\u201C(2)\tA person commits an offence if the person drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road while the proportion of alcohol in the person\u2019s blood, as ascertained from an analysis of a blood specimen subsequently taken from the person under section 72 or section 73, exceeds 50 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood.\u201D\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022045112fdd0464cf7923b5a0a734555f9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000802\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments (with the exception of the amendment to clause 12) set out on Supplementary Order Paper 226 in the name of the Hon Steven Joyce to Part 1, and the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 229 in his name to Part 1, be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000803\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002230937f87fd964c5c81bae01169693b94\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 73\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; Green Party 9; ACT New Zealand 3 (Boscawen, Calvert, Hide); United Future 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 2 (Douglas, Roy H); M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229bcd7f0d539d4a9c937604ca64729563\u0022\u003EPart 2  Repeal, revocations, and consequential amendments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u002215141c15e94e47428f6f0edaa2baff70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215141c15e94e47428f6f0edaa2baff70\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The debate on this part includes schedules 1 to 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u002249ed32384ed24093a2c5171130f52d9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249ed32384ed24093a2c5171130f52d9a\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will talk about the provisions on zero-alcohol licences that are outlined in this part and the consequential changes that they require. Labour supports most of this bill, the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, including the provisions on having a zero blood-alcohol level for those who are repeat drink-drivers and for those who are under the age of 20. We think that those are positive moves that will make a real difference to alcohol harm and the cost it has in lives, accidents, injuries, and families losing their loved ones. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EIn that regard we are very supportive of these provisions and the required changes that will bring into place the zero-alcohol licences, as outlined in this part. However, the real concern is that this measure does not go far enough. In providing for zero-alcohol licences in these situations and retaining the 0.08 gram blood-alcohol limit in other situations\u2014that is, the non - zero-alcohol licences\u2014we are well out of step with the research, well out of step with what most of the public want, and well out of step with what we need. My concern is that by failing to address that specific point, the Government does not realise how seriously the public takes this matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EAs somebody who has sat in on submissions on the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill and who is currently involved in the select committee considering the Alcohol Reform Bill, I have heard many, many submitters. On the Alcohol Reform Bill we have had thousands of submissions, and approximately 1,000 of those people have wanted to make oral submissions. Most of them have submitted that they want to see the blood-alcohol level reduced from 0.08 grams to 0.05 grams. What is really concerning is that when dealing with that issue in relation to the Alcohol Reform Bill, the select committee was told that reducing the blood-alcohol limit to 0.05 grams is out of its scope. It is out of scope for the Alcohol Reform Bill, but, in fact, it was clearly within scope for this bill. We were told that it was out of scope for that bill because it was being dealt with as part of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Consequently, we see that this bill has not made any change, and that the Government has not been willing to do the right thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EUnlike a number of my colleagues, I do not think this issue is about doing the brave thing. I think that on this issue the public\u2019s mind is fairly clear: people want to see this change. They want to see it probably for the same reasons that my colleague Grant Robertson said: in their guts they know it is right. The public have seen the evidence of what it looks like when people have drunk enough alcohol to go over the limit at 0.08 grams, and they know those people are drunk. Most people are drunk at that limit and should not be driving a vehicle. People know that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EOne of the perverse consequences of all the publicity and the media stunts on this issue that has probably shocked us all\u2014I reckon most of the members in this Committee have probably been quite shocked, as was the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Transport\u2014is the fact that one can drink so much and have one\u2019s blood-alcohol level remain at under 0.08 grams. One of the perverse consequences of this, which has shocked people, is that more people now know that they can probably drink more than they thought they could and still drive. I hope that there is not an irresponsible section of the public who now use that information to go out on the road when those people previously would not have done so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe important thing about setting the blood-alcohol limit is that it sends a very important signal of what we think is acceptable. In setting a zero-alcohol limit for repeat drink-drivers and young drivers\u2014which is provided for in this bill and which we wholeheartedly support\u2014we are sending a very clear message, as would be sent by dropping the blood-alcohol level to 0.05 grams. That specific matter could have been dealt with as part of this bill as well, and that would have made a huge difference. I raised it both in terms of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill and in terms of the alcohol reform process. That opportunity is provided by\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022f01c90c9dab44c4eb03582daba87d023\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f01c90c9dab44c4eb03582daba87d023\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E I appreciate your choice, Mr Chairman Roy, and it was a difficult choice because of the talent standing here, waiting to be called.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EIn referring to Part 2 of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, I would like to go to the consequential amendments, which are in clause 97, and, in particular, to the part of schedule 1 under the first heading, which is about the Land Transport (Driver Licensing) Rule 1999. I come back to some of the comments made earlier in the debate about the age of driver licensing. It may well be that the public out there overall is supportive of putting up the driving age. That is possibly because we have not adequately explained the issues around doing that and the inconvenience it will cause to young people, particularly young people going to sports practice, as Louisa Wall explained in her contribution earlier. She talked of what it meant for her to be able to do that. Also, I do not think we have explained sufficiently the point about the evidence. The gut reaction is to quietly up the age and to expect that upping the age will somehow bring about a lower death toll. Actually, there is no evidence to support that, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003ELabour finds itself on the same side as Federated Farmers, which is rare. National is on the other side of the fence from Federated Farmers. I completely understand Federated Farmers\u2019 point of view. Overwhelmingly, and the Chair will appreciate this, people in Southland support the age remaining at 15 and not being raised to 16. Here is some of the evidence behind that. In 1986, 15 to 19-year-olds caused 16.9 percent of the deaths on our roads. In 2006, that figure had dropped by 5 percent down to just 11.7 percent. There is no doubt that young drivers on our roads now are better drivers. They are certainly not perfect, by any means. As we heard before, they are still in the higher percentile of those causing accidents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EWhen I made a contribution earlier, I said that even in countries where the age-limit is higher, and the United States is one of those countries, the death rate of young drivers is much, much higher than it is in New Zealand. So simply raising the age will not be a cure-all that brings down the deal toll. In fact, we know fairly conclusively that no matter what the death toll is, the 2 years after drivers get their licence is the most dangerous time\u2014certainly, for those under the age of 25. Steve Chadwick, in her contribution earlier on, made a couple of very important points about our approach to this particular issue. If we have better driver education, if we extend the learner period, and if we drop the permitted blood-alcohol concentration for the under-20s down to zero, then we have a much better chance of bringing that 11.7 percent down much further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EIn this short contribution I just wanted to come back to schedule 1, which outlines the raising of the age-limit from 15 to 16 and 6 months. There are some other details or complications around that, as well. I want to point out that in no way does the evidence support it. In fact, it will seriously disadvantage many youngsters who are very responsible and who are driving cars responsibly in the countryside. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u002216d35d7279df4452a016f81e126bee03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216d35d7279df4452a016f81e126bee03\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call on Part 2 of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. I want to refer to schedule 4, \u201COffences against Act\u201D. I do not think there has been any discussion in this debate so far about the provisions in the bill that deal with the issue of logbooks, work-time regulations, and so on, and the issue of providing for search warrants for the police to gather evidence in terms of \u201Cchain of responsibility\u201D offences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EPart 1 of schedule 4 sets out the infringement fees for excess weight offences. Part 2 sets out the infringements for distance recorder offences, and there are other things in Part 2 that deal with issues of heavy road transport. I support this measure. I congratulate the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Transport, on putting that measure in. I acknowledge that an awful lot has been done in terms of truck driver safety over the years, but, whether or not we like it, we still have a problem. Although I congratulate the Minister on doing something in this bill, I think the opportunity to do more has been missed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003ELast year 57 people were killed in truck-related crashes\u2014that is 15 percent of all road deaths\u2014and 865 people were injured in truck-related crashes. That has cost New Zealand $358 million. Of course, truck drivers are not always at fault. In fact, often they are not. I accept that, but when a car comes up against a truck, the driver and passengers in the car come off second-best. That is why we often end up with very horrific instances of truck-related crashes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI am pleased that we are dealing with the work-time regulations and the logbooks and so on, but I was quite perturbed to get the information that last year the number of heavy motor vehicle drivers issued with traffic infringement notices for breaching logbook requirements was 1,690 people. Also, there were 137 traffic offence notices issued for the same thing. It is good that we are catching truck drivers who are breaching those rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EObviously, the police are doing their job, but the Labour Opposition is concerned about the fact that this is continuing to happen and the number of truck-related deaths is not coming down. I think the Government is failing to address the fundamental, underlying issue of our road transport industry. I am talking about small businesses, so Tau Henare might be interested. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dea9aff5d80d4ca09fd8e95d6749bd3f\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Say it again with some feeling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ced1b392fa2047ca8133cb1722114962\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: I thought that member\u2019s Government was the party for small business, but he is clearly not interested in hearing what it is like for owner-drivers who buy a truck, mortgage the house, spend a fortune on the truck, and then have a contract imposed on them that means they are unable to make a living without breaching logbook rules, without driving long hours, and without scrimping on maintenance and all of the other sorts of things. So there is another solution that needs to be looked at here. I have called on the Minister before, as he knows, and I have called on National to look at this issue of the link between what truckies are paid and safety on the roads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cdecba629e94b1e8f2f8083f18f7e7b\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Make a call on your own party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2e44783dda148be958420d6fdf1c07e\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: That member can keep his head in the sand; that is fine. I know that truckies out there are not very happy with the Government at the moment. At the moment our select committee is considering legislation about road-user charges. Truckies are not very happy; in fact, they are threatening another strike. Last week they told us that they will be better organised than they were when Labour was in power. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI want to tell listeners that Tau Henare is pulling faces to indicate that he does not really care, and I am really interested that he does not care about truck drivers or the road safety of the travelling public. He does not care whether truck drivers are on the road driving unsafely and putting other road users at risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u00226718c0cd2f5f4c0c850fa96fdff4c5a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226718c0cd2f5f4c0c850fa96fdff4c5a3\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u0022e21bbfc1149b4aaaaca4d97153f275c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e21bbfc1149b4aaaaca4d97153f275c4\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will take an opportunity to speak on Part 2 of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill because I particularly want to make sure the member who just resumed his seat, Tau Henare, knows what he is voting for. When he made a contribution to the debate on Part 1, he referred to the loony left. He said the loony left would soon have us voting for zero blood-alcohol limits. I want to inform Mr Henare that he is voting for exactly that. I want to make sure that Mr Henare realises exactly what he is voting for, because he seemed to be a bit confused. He was accusing this side of the Committee of daring to suggest that we might be voting in this Parliament for zero alcohol limits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b167364c682e4cc7b37667fed0504883\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Stop your lying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262e60785cf7e4b3c95383e4fe753b12f\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I take exception to the unparliamentary language used by the interjector, Mr Henare. He just accused me of lying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226443f5a4ee764f8cb36581247bffbcee\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: My attention was taken by the fact that I am trying to get some Supplementary Order Papers into shape so I understand them. I did not hear the comments. Offence has been taken, so the member will withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264a8b6b59f704ef79e5e2fd0a3b10f13\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226912270a002042419e2a08c5da98388d\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying, regulation 7 from Part 2 of schedule 2\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8eb7c2a9b5a43b88ed7dfa6f083012d\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Even in the short time that I have been in the House, I know that when people withdraw and apologise it is meant to be the end of the matter. Mr Henare just said\u2014and it was audible to me on this side of the Chamber\u2014\u201CI didn\u2019t mean it.\u201D after he sat down. I ask you to bring him back into line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfa6c7de5b1943ccb686d8f539061db2\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: That is not what I said. I said to my colleague on my right: \u201CI meant it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f9662d77c344a75b49516af0126b0ce\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure that was helpful. If the comment was an aside and was not directed to the House, that is something I cannot determine, because I did not hear it. But I caution the member; he should not make life more difficult for us all than it needs to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c278fd98bc1143a59e9e9e2fb74d703e\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: I hope the member Tau Henare takes your very sound advice on that point, Mr Chairperson. Mr Henare is the member I am addressing in order to draw to his attention the fact that I expect he will vote in favour of regulation 7 from Part 2 of schedule 2, which brings in zero alcohol licences. Zero alcohol licences are the very issue he accused the loony left of trying to drag Parliament towards voting for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022876b9501d2c745819c561c5d1e87fb8a\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: It is the loony left; everybody knows it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a48340fe882b40f0813e3b8ffb59bb30\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: There he goes again; Tau Henare is suggesting that the loony left will vote for zero alcohol licences, which are an issue that his own Minister of Transport has brought before Parliament. Yes, Labour will vote for the provision, but it will be very interesting to see whether Tau Henare does. He claims he will not vote in favour of zero blood-alcohol licences, but those licences are very much in schedule 2. I think he should read schedule 2 urgently to make sure his vote in favour is cast properly by the National whip. I would not want him to be under any false illusions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EMr Henare\u2019s Government has missed the opportunity to respond to the call of the majority of fair-minded New Zealanders who want leadership on another issue to do with blood-alcohol. They do not want to keep the same blood-alcohol limit of 0.08 grams per 100 millilitres of blood for those over the age of 20 years. They want that limit to be reduced in line with the limit of other countries, where it has been proven that lives are saved by dropping the blood-alcohol limit from 0.08 grams, which is currently what we have and will continue to have under the National Government, to 0.05 grams, which is the amendment to schedule 2 that Labour will put forward, as it did for Part 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EMr Henare has been very, very noisy this afternoon. He seemed to spend most of his time wanting to know where I live. I will put it on the record in this debate. I will not give him my address, because I do not really want him to turn up at strange hours of the night\u2014or at any time, actually. I will not give him the actual address, but to put Mr Henare\u2019s mind at rest I can tell him that I live in Melville, which is a suburb of Hamilton\u2014and very proudly so. In case the member is interested, I first moved there in 1991. I have put that on the record, because it seemed to be what took up most of his speech. He seemed to be consumed with the issue of where I live. I think he said I live in Matamata. It is very flattering, but I have not lived there since I was 16 years old. It is very flattering for Mr Henare to think I may still be 16 years old, but it is an awfully long time since I have lived in Matamata. It was a very flattering comment from him none the less. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003ELabour will support Part 2 of the bill, because it deals with zero alcohol licences and alcohol interlock licences, which we think will be a big improvement, but we wish the Government had had the courage to address the issue further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00227d167fa359ab4b4da7c3d8bf01690cc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d167fa359ab4b4da7c3d8bf01690cc1\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022a87f933902f5479091af3131d3fd46ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a87f933902f5479091af3131d3fd46ec\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E I will refer to schedule 2 of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, and the zero alcohol licence provisions. The tack I am about to take may raise the hackles of my colleagues on this side of the Chamber and a lot of the people out there who are watching tonight, but I have to agree with something Tau Henare said in the Committee today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c42121836cac463688286c9de4cb4cf6\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh my goodness!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247f90b077f2b4b12b1de05c227e92559\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: It has raised hackles. In an earlier contribution during the debate on Part 1 of the bill\u2014funnily enough, in an interjection during Kelvin Davis\u2019 speech\u2014Mr Henare said: \u201CIf you don\u2019t want to die, don\u2019t drink and drive.\u201D He is 100 percent right. But, unfortunately\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294b4855916544be9b85fd70b77915a8b\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, here comes the \u201Cbut\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa7d1a3a999443d59181f1d233cc0961\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Of course there is a \u201Cbut\u201D; I am talking about Mr Henare. Unfortunately, he is part of a Government that supports a bill without provisions to take serious action and send a signal to the New Zealand public that they should do what Mr Henare said. The Government and the Minister of Transport have failed to put serious provisions in the bill for lowering the blood-alcohol content limit for drivers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAs I said earlier, Mr Henare made that interjection during what was a personal story for Kelvin Davis. I have heard from Michael Woodhouse as well today; I have come to know him a bit better, and I have respect for his views on the Health Committee. He wants evidence-based arguments. I am not an expert on the exact figures and research, but I have a personal story on this issue, like Kelvin Davis did. My name is Kristopher John Faafoi. Just before I was born, a very close family friend John Sione was taken out by a drunk driver. Mr Bridges might think that is funny, but it is not funny at all. He was a very close family friend, and he was taken out. I never met him, but I bear his name. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThirty-five years ago, drink-driving was a problem. With this bill, the Committee has an opportunity to take serious action on drink-driving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022764b0971cf5d4f6e9e007e5c84a6c6ae\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: So we didn\u2019t do it 10 years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad1dbf2cd0dd4c83abff14c4d194b0ee\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: My argument in response to Mr Henare\u2019s comment, as he interjects again, is that I do not want a history lesson. I am here as one of the newest members of the Committee, and I want to make sure we are in the now and that in the future people like me can make sure\u2014[Interruption] Yes, it is a sad tale. I say with the utmost respect that Mr Henare is 100 percent right, but I am disappointed that the bill does not include provisions to seriously tackle the drink-driving problem in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI have dealt with that cop-out: the bill not dealing with the problem. Let me deal with the minimum driving age, and the cutting of corners on that issue. As I said before, Michael Woodhouse has raised some interesting issues on the minimum driving age argument. He wants to ensure we have an evidence-based approach. I see a contradiction here. With the minimum driving age the evidence is that when someone is young, swift action will be taken against him or her. But with the drink-driving prevention provisions, if someone is intoxicated and does not think he or she can drive, we will wait a couple of years, figure out what is actually going on, and then take action. I do not think that is right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EEarlier, Paul Quinn told members to look at the polls. I will tell the Committee what the polls say: 67 percent of respondents to a Television New Zealand poll said Parliament should take action to lower the blood-alcohol limit; one poll result from Research New Zealand went from 50 percent to 63 percent; and UMR Research had 70 percent of Kiwis wanting to ensure that Parliament lowered the blood-alcohol limit for drivers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI will go back to the minimum driving age, and the impact it will have on rural communities in particular. In my electorate areas such as Paek\u0101k\u0101riki and P\u0101uatahanui have large rural communities. They are concerned about what this change will mean for their young ones and the opportunities for social, community, and sporting events that are open to them. We should take that concern seriously. It is an argument that has been floating around for a long time. When I was a journalist I did a story on a mother and daughter in Kaiapoi, in Clayton Cosgrove\u2019s electorate of Waimakariri, who were concerned because the daughter potentially would not be able to get a licence to drive the 25 minutes to school. We also heard earlier from David Shearer around the Southland District Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002292d4d8ae53ad47259846d467b8e6a4d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292d4d8ae53ad47259846d467b8e6a4d3\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022411a901baa964a01831e173cfe25a277\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022411a901baa964a01831e173cfe25a277\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E I will speak on Part 2 and the schedules of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. I will pick up where I left off in Part 1, because the same matters that I was discussing at that point are dealt with in the schedules. I was discussing exactly what stopped the Minister of Transport from going with his gut on the bill and from going with his intuition that lowering the blood-alcohol limit was the right thing to do. This issue is dealt with in the schedules in terms of the zero alcohol limit. There was an opportunity to lower the blood-alcohol limit. Not only was the intuition there for the Minister to lower the limit but also the evidence was there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215d46b5004df40d7afee3a2196af04a3\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Read the evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bf442dc3be24ea5919c5435133eda14\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Henare is not very familiar with evidence. It is a difficult concept for him to grasp. It is what happens when people study things, look at the situation in other countries, and then come up with the evidence. The evidence certainly supports lowering the blood-alcohol limit. The question, then, is how we ended up in a situation where the Minister is not following through on what he wanted to do. The answer is that Mr Key clearly got nervous. Mr Key got nervous and decided he could not go ahead with it. He could not go ahead with backing the gut reaction of his Minister. That is incredibly disappointing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ELabour will support Part 2, because there are things in this bill that are good. There is a recognition that we need to do more to protect New Zealanders from those people who drink and drive, and to stop people from drinking and driving. That is important. Very few members of the House have not been affected in some way or other by people who have been drink-driving. We need to do more. The opportunity was on the Table for the Minister. Darien Fenton\u2019s amendments to Part 1 were on the Table to do something about drink-driving, and the Minister bottled. He just could not do it. He could not go ahead with it. We saw in an article in the Herald on Sunday on 2 January of this year that when John Key got involved, he got nervous. That is the problem with what has happened with this bill. There was a lack of courage and commitment to follow through on what the Minister knows is right, what Mr Henare knows is right, and what Mr Bridges knows is right. The right thing to do was here on the Table and it was not picked up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOver and over again we have seen from the Minister a transition from somebody who had a gut feeling that he was doing the right thing. His own experience told him that it was ridiculous\u2014that was his word\u2014that he could drink as much as he did and still be within the limit. His intuition was right, and the evidence backed his intuition, but he bottled it at the end because John Key got nervous. John Key\u2019s office was writing directly to officials in the Ministry of Transport, bypassing the Minister, to see whether they were concerned about whether someone who had had one glass of wine could go over the limit. It was an issue that John Key was personally concerned about. That is what his adviser was telling the Ministry of Transport. In the end, officials were put in a position, even though the regulatory impact statement stated that lowering the blood-alcohol limit could improve New Zealand, improve social outcomes, and improve economic outcomes, that the recommendation was bottled when the Prime Minister came on the scene. That is incredibly disappointing, because the zero alcohol limits and the things coming in in the schedules will do good things. I tell Mr Henare that we are not the loony left; he is voting for the bill. He might fit one of those words, but he does not fit the other. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224f76f2297c64604b8cb88cb4232a0c0\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: That was funny.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a90cb15567049f097d00ce270b6f1c7\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. The bill is something that everybody in the House can support, but it is an opportunity lost. People right around New Zealand are looking for politicians to take a leadership role on the issue, and this is an opportunity. They are looking for politicians who look at the evidence internationally and in New Zealand and say the evidence is there\u2014and people actually want the limit to be lowered. For reasons that go against the intuition of the Minister, the Government is going against the evidence on the Table. But because the Prime Minister got nervous and got spooked, suddenly we do not have support for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe worry that we on this side of the Committee have is that we have missed the opportunity now. I believe that everybody in the Committee wanted to lower the blood-alcohol limit. The opportunity has gone. Although we have a bill that will do some good things, and therefore we can support it, it misses out on the very, very real possibility of making a major change that would improve the lives of all New Zealanders. I am sad that has happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u00221a88d65fb6da4b488929a2697f6d0116\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a88d65fb6da4b488929a2697f6d0116\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E Ten\u0101 koe, Mr Chair; kia ora t\u0101tou katoa. I te r\u0101 nei i whakarewahia ko te p\u016Brongo kua puta i te paepae motuhake m\u014D Te Reo Mauriora e k\u012B ana, kia kaha tonu tatou ki te k\u014Drero i te reo M\u0101ori, an\u0101, koin\u0101 e t\u016B ake m\u014D te w\u0101 poto, kaua m\u014D te w\u0101 roa, ki te whakatakoto i \u0113tahi whakaaro m\u014D te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori. Me k\u012B, kei te tautoko ake te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i te nuinga o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero i roto i t\u0113nei pire. E tika ana kia \u0101ta titiro ki t\u0113nei kaupapa n\u0101 runga i te \u0101huatanga o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero o t\u0113n\u0101, o t\u0113n\u0101 m\u014D te \u0101huatanga \u014D-mate kua p\u0101 mai ki t\u0113n\u0101, ki t\u0113n\u0101 o t\u0101tou; ko te hunga rangatahi nei e taraiwa haurangi ana. Me \u0101ta titiro ki t\u0113tahi kaupapa hei karo i t\u0113r\u0101 uauatanga e ngau nei i a t\u0101tou, me k\u012B, te motu. Kaua i te iwi M\u0101ori i t\u014Dna kotahi, kaua i te iwi P\u0101keh\u0101 i t\u014Dna kotahi \u0113ngari, ko t\u0101tou katoa. Kua rongo t\u0101tou ki te \u0101huatanga \u014D-mate n\u0101 runga i te mahi taraiwa haurangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKo t\u0101 m\u0101tou tino raru n\u0101 te mea i \u0101hua noho taupatupatu nei i waenganui i a m\u0101tou o te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, ko te pikinga o te tau taraiwa mai i te 15 tau ki te 16. Ar\u0101 an\u014D m\u0101tou e w\u0101nanga \u0101e r\u0101nei, ka tino kite i t\u0113tahi painga o t\u0113r\u0101, ar\u0101, ko te pekenga o te tau taraiwa. Ki a m\u0101tou, k\u0101ore m\u0101tou e tino kite i t\u0113r\u0101. Ko te mate k\u0113, ko te H\u014Dnore Tariana T\u016Bria e mea nei, kai Whanganui a ia e noho ana i runga i te p\u0101mu, e mahi p\u0101mu ana i te taha o tana hoa rangatira, a H\u014Dri. Ko te mahi nui, ko te taraiwa o te hunga tamariki i a r\u0101tou an\u014D ki ng\u0101 papa t\u0101karo, ki w\u0101hi k\u0113 atu p\u0113nei i t\u0101 Steve Chadwick, p\u0113nei i t\u0101 Louisa Wall e korero nei m\u014D te taraiwa i a r\u0101tou an\u014D ki te papa t\u0101karo. Ahau tonu, tokorima w\u0101ku tamariki. Kai tawhiti k\u0113 t\u014Dku k\u0101inga i Rotorua, ki Ngongotah\u0101, w\u0101hi rongonui o te motu. Ka mutu, t\u0113r\u0101 pea tekau m\u0101 rima, rua tekau meneti te taraiwa atu ki te t\u0101one nui, \u0101, e tokorima ng\u0101 tamariki ia r\u0101 p\u0113r\u0101 tonu te \u0101huatanga ki ng\u0101 mahi h\u0101kinakina. Ka tipu ng\u0101 tamariki ki te tau e tika ana, \u0101, ka k\u012B atu ka pai, kai a koe te tikanga. Hoko koe i t\u014Du ake waka, kai a koe te tikanga. N\u014D reira, t\u0113r\u0101 t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero. Kei te \u0101ta whakaaro ake m\u014D te hunga e p\u0113r\u0101 an\u014D te noho, \u0101, kai tuawhenua, kei ng\u0101 p\u0101mu kai tawhiti ng\u0101 t\u0101one nui. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKa mutu, ko te tino take i whakatakotohia e m\u0101tou ki waenganui i a m\u0101tou an\u014D, m\u0113n\u0101 e tika ana kia k\u012B te pakeke ki te tamariki, anei m\u0101tou kei te pai te unu waipiro ki t\u0113tahi taumata engari koutou, k\u0101o, k\u0101o. He rerek\u0113 ng\u0101 ture ki a koutou tamariki m\u0101, rangatahi m\u0101, taiohi m\u0101. Ko t\u0101 m\u0101tou e k\u012B nei ko ng\u0101 k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki te pakeke, me p\u0113r\u0101 an\u014D hoki ki te \u0101huatanga o te tamariki. M\u0113n\u0101 ka k\u012B atu t\u0101tou, k\u0101re tatou e whakaae kia paku unu, kia paku unu t\u0113tahi pakeke i t\u0113tahi paku kar\u0101he waina, pia r\u0101nei. K\u0101ore e whakaaetia ki te tamariki, me p\u0113r\u0101 an\u014D hoki ki te pakeke. He aha te pai m\u014D te k\u012B atu ki te tamariki, \u0101, me p\u0113nei koutou engari, kua rereke te \u0101huatanga ki a m\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, koinei t\u0101 m\u0101tou e k\u014Drero nei, he paku whakaaro n\u014D m\u0101tou. Kei te whakah\u0113 i \u0113r\u0101 w\u0101hanga engari, ko te wh\u0101nuitanga o te k\u014Drero, kei te whakaae atu i te mea, me titiro tonu ki t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga \u0101 ng\u0101 r\u0101 kei mua i te aroaro. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Chair, and to all of us. It was stated in the independent panel review report, Te Reo Mauriora, that we must make an earnest effort to use the M\u0101ori language, and for that reason I rise to take a short call, not a long one, to put forth some thoughts in M\u0101ori on behalf of the M\u0101ori Party. The M\u0101ori Party supports much of what is in this bill. It is right that we consider this proposal very carefully, based on what each of us has said about young people drinking and driving, and any death resulting from that. It has affected each of us in some way or other. We and the nation need to find a way to avoid that difficulty that is gnawing away inside us. M\u0101ori and non-Maori people on their own will not solve it, but everyone has to take responsibility. We have all been affected by the tragic circumstances brought about through drink-driving. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EWhat caused us great concern when we, the M\u0101ori Party, were debating this issue amongst ourselves, was the raising of the driving age from 15 to 16 years. It was while we were debating away, yes or no, that we found a positive reason for raising the age. There was a problem in the case of the Hon Tariana T\u016Bria, who said she lives on a farm in Whanganui, working alongside her husband, George. The big problem was with the children driving themselves to sports venues or other places. That was similar to what the Hon Steve Chadwick and Louisa Wall had to say about driving to sportsgrounds. I am the same, too, with my five kids. My home is in Ngongotah\u0101, a famous place in the country, and some distance from Rotorua. It is a drive of about 20 to 25 minutes to the city, so there is a daily ritual with five children in pursuit of sporting events. So when the children get to the right age, you say to them: \u201COK, over to you. Buy your car; it\u2019s over to you.\u201D So that is that statement. But I am thinking about those in a similar situation in rural areas, on farms, and quite far away from larger towns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EIn rounding off the debate amongst ourselves, we ended up asking whether it was right for adults to say to children: \u201CWe are fine, we can drink to a certain level, but you cannot\u2014absolutely not. The laws are not the same for you kids, teenagers, and young people.\u201D The point we are making here is that what we say to adults must apply to children, as well. If we say that we will not allow children a single drop, we will not allow an adult to have a single glass of wine or beer; do not tell them that we do not allow them to take a single drop, while an adult can take a single glass of wine or beer. Just as for adults, it will not be allowed for children. Where is the justice for children, if we say \u201CYou have to do this, but it is different for us adults.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESo that is what we are on about \u2014 just a little thought of ours. We oppose those clauses, but agree to most of the bill, simply because we need to monitor this aspect of the bill in the days before us.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u0022f81aa024928c41e1b9f85725b25a8321\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f81aa024928c41e1b9f85725b25a8321\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bb7cf29743246aab724f2d7b3f9bb68\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the question be now put. Those of that opinion\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217dd8cbd14f24063927d75365dc089df\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Some of us have not yet debated Part 2. We had the closure of Part 1, which was a significantly long part. Some of us have been trying to use the opportunity to take a call on Part 2. I urge your reconsideration of accepting the closure motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c926f82cce53404ba6354c9d53c67829\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I do not put closure motions lightly. The member ought to be aware of that. I have listened to a significant number of speeches that had very little to do with Part 2. I have made the decision that the Committee is ready to move on, and I will test that decision by putting the closure motion. If members are opposed to the closure motion, they should vote against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cea1440f03eb40878ea171624cbc89de\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000877\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 229 in the name of the Hon Steven Joyce to clause 97 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000878\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000879\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ef565036055e4cb8bb018fa00644714e\u0022\u003ESchedule 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000881\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 229 in the name of the Hon Steven Joyce to schedule 1 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000882\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000883\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002266e68dfc9fd343acae61288ef160b13b\u0022\u003ESchedule 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000885\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 226 in the name of the Hon Steven Joyce to schedule 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000886\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000887\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d5a4f694bc34f249be430d72bf086d8\u0022\u003ESchedule 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000889\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 226 in the name of the Hon Steven Joyce to schedule 3 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000890\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000891\u0022\u003ESchedule 3 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ede596c3e5cc47de9d27251cd0305fd2\u0022\u003ENew schedule 4\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000893\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 229 in the name of the Hon Steven Joyce to add new schedule 4 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000894\u0022\u003ENew schedule 4 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223ea0aeb3c46246c893787885e2759473\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u00225502d31a75c44bd9a4874ee95e7d953f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225502d31a75c44bd9a4874ee95e7d953f\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the title.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d5003931e9e41d3b9ca727849a40e82\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Which one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a23a2097ceb34f8e8aca10e676c4fa5d\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there is a good question\u2014which one; which title? I will give Tau Henare some suggestions about what it might be. I am happy to take a call on the title clause, clause 1 of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. The title, I believe, is based on the Government\u2019s Safer Journeys road safety strategy to guide improvements in road safety over the period 2010 to 2020. Gosh, 2020 is a long time away, but it will be here before we know it. The Safer Journeys strategy, which is related to the title, has as a long-term goal: \u201CThe vision, a safe road system increasingly free of death and serious injury,\u201D. There is no problem with that\u2014no problem with that. It is a motherhood and apple pie kind of vision. The Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill is supposed to implement that goal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EMaybe the title should have been \u201CLand Transport (Missed Opportunities) Amendment Bill\u201D, because the words \u201CRoad Safety\u201D in the title are a little misleading. Although the bill goes some way towards addressing issues in relation to improving road safety between 2010 and 2020, it ignores, of course, the elephant in the room, the missed opportunity that the title should reflect. It ignores the overwhelming evidence, including that in the Safer Journeys document, which the title of the bill is based on and which is what this bill is supposed to be about. It ignores the elephant in the room, which is the lowering of the adult drink-drive blood-alcohol limit from 0.08 grams to 0.05. It could have been done in this legislation. If it had been, maybe the title could have been \u201CLand Transport (Road Safety: Labour is Here to Help) Amendment Bill\u201D. If the Minister of Transport had accepted my amendment to Part 1, we could all now be going forward on this bill feeling pretty happy about it. The public would have been feeling pretty happy about it, too, because the missed opportunity to save 15 to 33 lives every year would have been taken up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, the Minister has kicked the issue into touch. We have a 2-year research period for getting more evidence, when the evidence is already there. More lives will be lost and more money will be wasted, when we did not need to have that. Maybe the title of the bill could be \u201CLand Transport (Road Safety: What a Waste of Money and Time) Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef0c5684106743f09c0fd675430338fa\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: Cop out!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f687ba68c574e39b4712a2e702620e5\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there is another good suggestion for the title. It could be the \u201CLand Transport (Road Safety: the Government Copped Out) Amendment Bill\u201D, because the Minister has copped out on this issue. It could be the \u201CLand Transport (Road Safety but Only If We Feel Like It) Amendment Bill\u201D, or it could be the \u201CLand Transport (Road Safety: Let\u2019s Drink Three-quarters of a Bottle of Wine and We Can Still Drive) Amendment Bill\u201D, and we could just not worry about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1dcb7a63e0f4e4c92c2baca80aa2bf4\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I know the member couldn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fb66ef4e5d44a95bc05a54be987c1ff\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: There are many possible titles. Seeing that the member Tau Henare is taking such an interest in the title and in my contribution on the title, I ask him to stand up and respond to some of those titles and let me know what he thinks. I think there are much more creative titles than the ones I have suggested that would fit this bill and would be more suitable than the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe \u201COther Matters\u201D part is really interesting, too. I was thinking about it, and wondering what fitted into the \u201CRoad Safety\u201D bit and what fitted into the \u201COther Matters\u201D bit. I am not really sure. All of this bill is about road safety, so what are the \u201COther Matters\u201D? Maybe they are all of the repeal, revocations, and consequential amendments that are in Part 2 and the schedules. Maybe those are the \u201COther Matters\u201D bit. Some very obscure Acts that I have never heard of are being repealed or amended by Part 2 and the schedules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u00228bf6bfe4391247b2b2e9a45335fd467a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bf6bfe4391247b2b2e9a45335fd467a\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will also take the opportunity\u2014having been denied a lengthy debate on Part 1, and on Part 2 after rightly challenging the Chair\u2014to accept the call of the Chair. It means we will have a little rave on the title of this Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. I would call it the \u201CLand Transport (Partial Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill\u201D, because I believe\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297f4a4151c7e46b493b56cc35ada7e36\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s got to be a law against this sort of thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223b7df8db56f4dc3803b4c729cd454a2\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014if Tau Henare could just listen to the evidence\u2014that it is a very sad day, when we get an opportunity to have such a massive bill before the Committee, that we have wasted the opportunity to do the right thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EWe have wasted the opportunity to do the right thing here, and there will be up to 66 lives lost while the Minister garners evidence, when he knows from the ministerial adviser to the Prime Minister that that evidence is already here. We are now facing a very similar type of debate to one that was running in the UK just recently, which shows, entirely, that this Government will not go near anything at all that touches what its members call that nerve of social legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EMembers opposite who have a good conscience have said to me that they are not allowed to vote on any social legislation. The Prime Minister has told them that in the first term of Government they are not to introduce any social legislation, after Labour\u2019s bold initiatives in the 9 years we were in Government. I say to Tau Henare that it was Labour that brought in the Law Commission report on alcohol, which is the guiding document for all other legislation that impacts on alcohol, and here is the golden opportunity in this \u201CLand Transport (Partial Road Safety but Not Far Enough and Other Matters) Amendment Bill\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EWe know that the Prime Minister wrote to the Ministry of Transport officials and this is the reply he received. He was told the public would react badly to a cut in the drink-driving limit, even though research and polls show that most drivers are keen to see the limit reduced. How sad! This was one crack at land transport legislation that could have been universally accepted by all parties in this Chamber but for the issue of the driver-licensing age and the blood-alcohol limit. I think it is very sad. It mimics what goes on globally. This debate has just happened in the United Kingdom, and there Ministers of the Crown were advised by doctors and physicians about their lost opportunity too for reducing alcohol-related deaths and morbidity on the roads. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse is yawning, as if the loss of lives and morbidity on the roads does not matter. To us over here it does matter. We know the evidence is already there about reducing the blood-alcohol limit from 0.08 grams to 0.05 grams, but the Minister will sit on his hands, prevaricate, and ignore evidence-based research that has been put by the Chief Science Adviser to the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister has copped out of giving leadership to this country and leadership to the children of this country by setting an example to young people and saying it is not good enough to go out there and drink and drive. Here was the opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThe Minister in the chair, the Minister of Transport, could have shown leadership. I think he wanted to, but he got bowled by his own leader, the Prime Minister, who rode roughshod over him, and went directly to the Ministry of Transport advisers. They gave him the advice, which we have here, that he would get a bad public reaction to this, so the Prime Minister decided that we would not go there, even though 70 percent of those polled tell the Prime Minister and the Minister of Transport that this is what should be done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge the legacy of the Hon Darren Hughes in this debate. Darren fought very hard in this debate in the House, and he took on the Minister of Transport. I enjoyed the repartee between the two of them. Darren came near to convincing the Minister of Transport that this was a good idea. I think a legacy to Darren Hughes would be to acknowledge that we could have, today, called this bill the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Bill, but we cannot. We are here, in the title debate, making a half-hearted attempt at road safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f86b5dec408643d8a3cfeb0a7c947748\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f86b5dec408643d8a3cfeb0a7c947748\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u0022f98fbb7436a84b4aac8ca614955b20d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f98fbb7436a84b4aac8ca614955b20d9\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased that I have the call to talk about the commencement dates\u2014the various commencement dates, actually\u2014of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. The bill is structured quite differently from most bills we have been debating in this Chamber, in that it has four different times at which various parts of the legislation will come into being. I invite the Minister in charge of this bill, Steven Joyce, to give some insight into why we have four different time frames for various sections of this legislation to come into being.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EWe have the bill in front of us, and I want to let listeners know that a whole series of clauses will come into force 90 days after the date of Royal assent. They seem to be mainly\u2014clause 6 is one of them\u2014a grouping of issues about the way that licensing will happen. That is what they appear to be to me, but it would be great to get some clarification from the Minister himself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThen there is another group of clauses. They seem clearer to me, because they are about taking blood specimens. I expect that this group is about letting our health system prepare for a new way of dealing with blood specimens, because clauses 31 to 35 and clause 37, which happen to be about the way in which blood specimens will be dealt with by our health system, will come into force 180 days after the date of Royal assent. So one bunch of new rules is coming in 90 days after the date of Royal assent, and another bunch is coming in 180 days after the date of Royal assent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThen there is a third group, which seems to be mainly about the issues that have been mostly debated in this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285634348a0c74778ba3abc6e334612e0\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: All for good reasons, Sue. If you\u2019d been in the committee you\u2019d understand why it was like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6f1c9d578664f93be653e805c24433d\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I invite the member Michael Woodhouse, who was on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, to get up and give clarification, because we are debating the commencement clause and it is important for the Committee of the whole House to understand the insights the select committee members had on that clause. I would be really pleased to hear Michael Woodhouse take a call to enlighten me on this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThe clauses in the third group seem to be about the zero blood-alcohol limit, which Tau Henare was so confused about. They seem to be about the new interlock system that we can use. But we are not told how many days after Royal assent the clauses will come in. The dates are even more vague\u2014if that is possible. Clause 2(3) states that these particular clauses\u2014and I will not read them all out; there are a number of them\u2014\u201Ccome into force on a date to be appointed by the Governor-General by Order in Council, and 1 or more orders may be made appointing different dates for different provisions.\u201D So we could have about a dozen, probably up to 18, different dates for each of those clauses to come in; that seems to be a bit of a shambles. Then clause 2(4) states that everything else, the rest of the Act, \u201Ccomes into force on the day after the date of Royal assent.\u201D Probably, by my estimation, there are about 30 different dates, then, on which all of this legislation could come into being, and I think that that will be very, very confusing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EIt will be very confusing for the authorities who need to administer this Act, including the police. I think the police will have a bit of a nightmare working out which provision comes in when. Most of the provisions of the Act are coming in the day after the date of Royal assent. Then about a dozen clauses will come in 90 days after the date of Royal assent, and three clauses, which all seem to apply to the health system, will come in 180 days after the date of Royal assent. As I said before, about 18\u2014I have not stopped to count them\u2014different clauses will come in on a date we do not know about, and they might all come in on different dates, according to the commencement clause. So it is really important for the Committee of the whole House to understand exactly what is going on with what I think are the approximately 30 or more different dates on which the various provisions of this bill are to be enacted, and the reasons behind that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EWhy I ask the question\u2014and I really would like the Minister to respond\u2014[Interruption] Tau Henare may not be interested in the shambles the police might be left with over the dates on which they will have to deal with various parts of the Act coming in, but I certainly am. I would expect that the Minister of Police, Judith Collins, might be really keen to hear what the explanation is, and exactly how the police will deal with different parts of the Act coming in at different times. They will need to understand that, in order to do their planning. Legislation like this makes quite a big difference to the police force in the way it will be administered, so it is really important that the police understand which clauses are going to come in after 90 days, and whether those clauses are the bits they are to administer. The Ministry of Health needs to understand, so that it can get its orders and instructions out to hospitals up and down the country, in relation to the provisions that come in after 180 days and that seem to apply to them. The ministry needs to know how it will manage those provisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI will have to look at various clauses, because all of the next bunch will actually come into force on a date that, as stated in clause 2(3), \u201Cmay be made appointing different dates for different provisions.\u201D Those clauses are clauses 5, 6, 16, 21, 22, 24, 28, and so on. I will not read through them all, but, for example, clause 5 is about \u201CDrivers to be licensed\u201D. That is the provision that takes away the concept of a limited licence, which we are used to in this country, and brings in three new licences. There is \u201Can alcohol interlock licence\u201D\u2014so that will obviously be an issue for the licensing authority\u2014\u201Ca zero alcohol licence, or a limited licence\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3070103e2514cab9b24ef3efe7aa633\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: I will take full advantage of the 2 minutes I have left to debate the commencement clause, because before the dinner break I was seeking clarification. I am hoping that the Minister who is responsible for this bill will be able to cast some light on the matter, because it is very confusing. Clause 5, for example, is about the new ways in which drivers will be licensed for \u201Can alcohol interlock licence, a zero alcohol licence, or a limited licence.\u201D Those are all new categories. That provision will come in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a55073fb838c49719fa5e40883764ebd\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the member. It is a longstanding convention in this Chamber that members should not conduct conversations in the Chamber unless it is necessary to do so, and then not to disturb the proceedings and the member speaking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5095638926c48bab7c17801ea95c04d\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: The clause I just referred to will come into force, under clause 2(3), \u201Con a date to be appointed by the Governor-General by Order in Council, and 1 or more orders may be made appointing different dates for different provisions.\u201D That gives us no clue about the sort of time frame when that particular clause will come into force. It is a very important clause, because it is about the new licensing regime that will be brought in by this bill. Yet part of the very next clause, clause 6(1), will come into force 90 days after the Royal assent. Clause 6 is the clause stating that drivers are not to exceed specified alcohol limits. It is all very confusing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI think it will be very confusing for the authorities who will need to operationalise this legislation, because they will not have any idea when they will be able to issue those new licences. The commencement clause, clause 2, gives no clue whatsoever about when\u2014even roughly when\u2014that new regime will come into being; subclause (3) states that the date will be \u201Cappointed by the Governor-General by Order in Council,\u201D and that it could come into force on \u201Cdifferent dates for different provisions.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EIt is my contention that we are no further ahead, in terms of this commencement clause, about when these provisions will be coming in. I think they are really important provisions, because I know that families out there want to know when their 15-year-olds will be able to sit for their licences, or whether they will have to wait until they are 16. It is really important for this to be understood. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u002268cb4bba0cb942fdb9d221441950630b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268cb4bba0cb942fdb9d221441950630b\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National):\u003C/span\u003E This bill really should be called the \u201CRecidivist Drink-driver, We Are Going to Ping You Bill\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215d5ef9f1e874ce283e3e4bf60cd8d68\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s your Government\u2019s bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209cd904e803a4ac4895513486c86ccee\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, maybe it should be called the \u201CWe Are Here, the Opposition Is There, and We Will Get on with What We Were Elected to Do Bill\u201D. Maybe it should be called the \u201CWe Didn\u2019t Have 10 Years When We Sat on Our Backsides Doing Nothing; We Have Had Only 2 Years and Look Where We Are Now Bill\u201D. The folly in what we have been hearing from Opposition members is that the bill does not fit with any one title that they have given us to debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EReally there are two issues. There is the issue of the recidivist drink-driver who continues to drink-drive, maim, hurt, and, in some cases, kill. We are saying that we will target those people, and that is what the title is all about. That is what the essence of the bill is all about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThe bill is not designed for Kelvin Davis\u2019 auntie, who has the odd sherry, wanders down K\u0101retu Road, and gets stopped by Paddy Whiu or whoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a508181c6f834595ac9a71699c504255\u0022\u003EKelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s square gin up there; that\u2019s what they drink. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284e147e95486481a9ab169f3bdb9cfcd\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, square gin then\u2014I am sorry. In M\u014Dtatau we do not do anything like that. Our drink is milk out of the cow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThat is the folly in the argument of members opposite tonight. They say we are not doing anything for safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022137afcb1511d404f99c52025069603a6\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve got to listen to New Zealanders. You\u2019re not listening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226436a9721e434ff1b5f5eaeca5595d23\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, we listened. In fact, the evidence shows that most of the people who are a danger to society fall into two categories. One\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222573914576c8439c854747cf71e1ada0\u0022\u003EHon Rick Barker\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s an obscene sign. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022914043ddab5641a78f706e0ed667780a\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. There are two categories.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000944\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c176c16a8f8405f921046cbbbdf15f4\u0022\u003EHon Rick Barker\u003C/span\u003E: Are you in the Mongrel Mob?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000945\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269b71cc90ec044a6a206a90b0586e414\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: No, this is the sign of the Headhunters. One category of driver is the young person, the new driver. There should be a zero alcohol limit\u2014those people should not be allowed to drink and drive\u2014yeah, totally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000946\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c5f5f208d894272b158e9b40e8b5c18\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Really? That\u2019s a bit loony left, isn\u2019t it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000947\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b29bd2a5719a4b728ebc4d18ea4139ad\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is not. Apparently the lady from Melville is saying that proposal is loony left, but it is not really. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000948\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThe other category is the recidivist drink-driver. He is the one\u2014and it is normally a he, so I will use the generic\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000949\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228956d33470e649e0aee130e4211549fa\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Sexist!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000950\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d2ec814bbdb4acbbcda7f4bb5e98169\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, OK, I am sorry. I belong to the National Party and not to the gaggle opposite. I apologise. Those are the two target areas that we are trying to fix up on the community\u2019s behalf. That is what the bill should be called. It should be the \u201CWe Will Ping You If You Continue to Do Bad in Our Community Bill\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000951\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EI have to say that I have heard some violent stories from Kelvin Davis and Kris Faafoi. They were heart-wrenching stories, but I just cannot understand why those members were trying to blame the Minister of Transport for what happened to the people involved. That was the essence of their decision to use those two stories. I tell members this: maybe the people those members mentioned would be alive if the drivers who caused those accidents had been pinged a lot earlier. That is exactly what this bill does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000952\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003EThis bill puts out there a safety net for our community\u2014that is all. I have no problem standing in this Chamber tonight and saying that the existing title hits the nail dead smack on the head. Members opposite can get up and talk about what the title could be, and what it might be in fantasyland, but the reality is this: we won, sit down, move on, and let us do what we were elected to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd6fbcc84554438780944090e658a852\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd6fbcc84554438780944090e658a852\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As always it is a privilege and a pleasure to follow the Hon Tau Henare. What arrogance he just demonstrated in talking about clauses 1, 2, and 3 of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Before the dinner break I asked him why he is always here in the Chamber yelling out, when he has so little influence on his Government. His Government is so out of touch. If it was in touch it would be amending the legislation to decrease the legal blood-alcohol concentration limit from 0.08 grams per 100 millilitres to 0.05 grams per 100 millilitres of blood. We have raged on that issue in the debate, but I still do not understand why this bill does not amend the principal Act to ensure the legal blood-alcohol limit falls. We all know, and we have all heard the arguments all night\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000954\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022017d5c9e714b4ea5b4532fb567c4029d\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: The country is lucky you are not the Minister of Transport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000955\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffe40359998a498597d820bf4867954f\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: The country is lucky that Tau Henare is not the Minister of anything. Thank goodness for that. May we never see that day\u2014and, in fact, I think we never will. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000956\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI express my disappointment that the blood-alcohol concentration limit has been kicked into touch by the Minister of Transport. He did not have the fortitude to do something about it when he had the opportunity, so the principal Act will be amended without the blood-alcohol concentration limit being amended. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000957\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI did not have the opportunity to speak earlier on, so the other issue I want to address in talking about the principal Act being amended\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000958\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c89fef73fd1340e7b2843baf6d80901f\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: In the title?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228823f05385d8452eb43c3136c614d425\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in clause 3, \u201CPrincipal Act amended\u201D\u2014is the provision in clause 12 that raises the minimum driver-licensing age.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b37522fedfd407fb821cb99a1d465e5\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I thought you were going to raise the minimum wage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000961\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c378d0c633604a4cb8c1e98409375964\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: That is a good idea, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d29c4ec07a1947009ed0f61dcd178105\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s that got to do with the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000963\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022917dccd6e5f641709921db0a9cf9374e\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you brought it up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000964\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022184031dd9cce46f18d1bd2844db53fdc\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000965\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaf6f01564bb417890946b9a8e0fb182\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise, Mr Chair, but I am being sorely provoked from across the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000966\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIn this bill, which amends the principal Act, clause 12 raises the minimum driver-licensing age. As we have said in debate tonight and earlier, we do not support this clause. We have some difficulties with it. I make it really clear that Labour is extremely sympathetic to some of the comments the Minister made earlier on. No one in this country, including the Labour Opposition, wants to see young people dying on our roads unnecessarily. No one wants to see that. But our difficulty with this provision, which amends the principal Act, is that there is not the evidence that the issue is around age. The issue of age versus education versus time on the roads and so on has not been explored. We know from the evidence, of course, that young drivers actually become more dangerous when they have had some experience, not when they start driving. We have a problem with the fact that the overall effect of these changes is that young drivers will have to be 17 before they can obtain a restricted licence. That causes enormous problems in a struggling economy. In a struggling economy not everyone will stay at school. Kids have to stay at school till they are 16, but many of them want to go and study or go out and do jobs. They may even work part-time. The country is in such a parlous state that many kids now have to go out and work part-time just to help their families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000967\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eef1117f27944b719383655c8873111e\u0022\u003EDavid Shearer\u003C/span\u003E: If they can get a job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000968\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddb3d37567ca42899c3b883bc681ec80\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON\u003C/span\u003E: If there are any jobs out there, of course. Then, of course, they will receive the minimum wage, which had a miserable 25c-an-hour increase from 1 April. How are those families supposed to cope with the fact that their 15 or 16-year-old will not be able to go to work after school or do any study? They will not be able to take up study. It is fine to talk about study and doing things for our young people to bring them through\u2014I hear Paula Bennett going on about that all the time\u2014but what happens if they cannot actually get there? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000969\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe real difficulty is that in Auckland, where I live, there are no alternative means for those kids to get from home to work. We have a real issue about public transport in Auckland. Even though Labour did an enormous amount around it, we now have a Government that just wants to build roads everywhere and spend a fortune on roads of national significance\u2014roads of national significance that mean nothing to 15 and 16-year-olds who are trying to get from home to work to earn a little bit extra to help their family to support themselves. The reality is that the cost of living is having a dire impact on families. Because wages are not going up\u2014the minimum wage is pathetic\u2014children, 15 and 16-year-olds, are now contributing to the family\u2019s income. How on earth are they supposed to get to work? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000970\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EThe other thing I thought was that, in amending the principal Act, the Government would have been more sympathetic to its rural supporters. Federated Farmers and Rural Women New Zealand are good organisations that made very straightforward submissions to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee about their concerns about how young people in our rural areas were supposed to get around from one place to another. They might be going to school, going to college, or going to work. This Government has shown it does not care. It has shown it is out of touch with 15 and 16-year-old young people, not only in our urban communities but also in rural communities. This Government does not listen; it is not listening. It is completely out of touch. There were discussions during the select committee process about alternatives, and I know that exemptions for young people who need to go to work or who are in rural communities were explored, but the Government said nothing about that alternative. It is not interested in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000971\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EI go back to what I started with. Labour is extremely concerned, along with everybody else, about the crash statistics for our 15 to 19-year-olds. We are very concerned about that. As I said, no one wants to see our young people dying unnecessarily on the roads. We have a high teenage crash rate, but let us be clear about it: the problem is not when they start driving, it is not when they sign up at 15 to get their learner licence; it is later on. I think the ACT member talked about the figure of 100 hours. That is what the statistics and the information tell us. I am really disturbed that we are punishing our young people. It looks like the Government is tackling a problem, but it is doing it without evidence\u2014it is doing it without thinking about whether the problem is age, driver education, or experience. The Government has called for 2 years of research on lowering the blood-alcohol concentration limit\u2014it is prepared to do that. It says it will not make a decision even though the evidence is already overwhelming, and even though the public want it. Given that, I would have thought with this other issue the Government would take a consistent approach: find the evidence, and find out whether age, driver experience, or driver education makes a difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000972\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003EIn this legislation amending the principal Act, the Labour Opposition is extremely disappointed with two things. One is the amendment to the minimum driver-licensing age, which will have an impact on our young people. The other is the cop-out that this Government has demonstrated by refusing to take up the evidence and the call of the public\u2014the New Zealand public\u2014to reduce the blood-alcohol concentration limit from 0.08 grams to 0.05 grams. As we have said, we really support a lot of the amendments in the bill; we think they are good steps forward. I add that those steps build on the work Labour did when it was in Government, despite what the National Government has said. I do not know whether it has taken any notice, but there was a whole programme called See You There\u2014Safe As around improving road safety. In fact, road safety has been improving steadily for a long time. It improved under Labour. With this Government we see no goals for improving it; it has a vague vision about reducing accidents and injuries. Of course, everybody will say that is a good thing. \u201CRoad Safety\u201D is in the title of the bill, but there is no real commitment to looking at some of the things that actually matter, like the impact of changing the driver-licensing age and the blood-alcohol concentration limit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1e248600d00468db73a1799b8220853\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000973\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1e248600d00468db73a1799b8220853\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to speak to the title of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. I think it is a perfectly well-named bill. It is all about road safety, which is what this amendment bill is doing. I was talking at the end of the first reading regarding our alcohol culture; I will pick up from there. We have a youth drinking problem. I know that the law reform bill that is currently before the House will go some way towards addressing that problem. Certainly, youth have been targeted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000974\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EI really wanted to take the opportunity to talk about FebFast. At the end of February, when FebFast finished, we did not have a time to acknowledge it, because we had the Christchurch earthquake. It just really was not the right time to do it. News came out today that the people who supported FebFast raised over $100,000, which goes towards youth drinking programmes and education. That is absolutely wonderful. I acknowledge Iain Lees-Galloway, who led the Labour team for FebFast; I led the National team for FebFast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EAs role models, as leaders, and as MPs we can do a lot to help change the culture of drinking in this country. There are many ways that we need to look at to deal with this problem, not just through legislation. In many respects, change comes from the ground up, and it is often community-driven. I say: \u201CWell done to everyone who supported FebFast.\u201D I certainly look forward to next year\u2019s FebFast. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000976\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has not been doing very well in its road safety statistics. The Minister told us, earlier in the evening, that we have bad statistics. Our fatality rate is 60 percent worse than the rate in Australia. We are lagging behind, and that is really not good enough. Our youth are at risk, along with drivers who reoffend\u2014drivers who drink alcohol and are over the limit. But youth particularly are of concern. In my speech on Part 1, I said that 15 to 24-year-olds are overrepresented in the statistics. They represent 14 percent of our population and equate to 16 percent of all licensed drivers, yet in 2008 they were involved in around 37 percent of all fatal crashes. Those statistics are quite shocking. That age group was also involved in 38 percent of all serious injury crashes. Those statistics are very, very sobering and very concerning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000977\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThat is not satisfactory, so we have to focus on youth. This bill does exactly that. It calls for a zero alcohol limit, but, importantly, education is a key part of this legislation. It aims to improve all road safety education that is available and to increase access to it. I am very pleased that the bill allows approved defensive driving courses to be undertaken in the learner-licence phase. I think that everyone from time to time, not just youth, should take a refresher course. It would suit all members, and everyone who drives in New Zealand. It is something that everyone should consider doing, from time to time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EBut it is important that the bill proposes to increase the licensing age to 16. Members on this side absolutely support that proposal. It is the right way to go. As I said in my speech on the second reading, when I was learning to drive there were 1 million vehicles on the road. Now there are 3 million vehicles on the road. Now it is busier, the cars are more powerful, and drivers need to have their wits about them, particularly in big cities. I am sorry, but the brain of a 15-year-old and the brain of a 16-year-old, I am sure, physiologically might be very similar, but I think in maturity they are worlds apart. I think that every year that passes before a driver first embarks on driving, the better it is, because driving uses a lot of sensory information and coordination. Certainly, when the consultation phase of Safer Journeys, which is the Government\u2019s road safety policy going forward to 2020, was embarked upon, it showed there was clear public support for raising the age of driving to 16. Members on this side stand by that policy, and there is no question about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000979\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EOther shocking data has been released recently and it all adds to support for this amendment bill, which is all about road safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u00223aed5f31c51648fca5a2221748aa6239\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000980\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223aed5f31c51648fca5a2221748aa6239\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E This is my first opportunity to take part in the debate on the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. One of the other matters to do with road safety that Labour believes is missing from this legislation is the reduction of the adult blood-alcohol limit from 0.08 grams to 0.05 grams. This is a measure that has massive amounts of support out in the public. It is beyond me that National, which is normally very poor in showing leadership and fails to advance an issue unless it has been focused-grouped to within an inch of its life, cannot look at the public support for a measure to reduce the blood-alcohol limit to a level that will actually capture drivers who are impaired, and will bring down that limit to a point where drivers have to be under a level at which they are impaired, to be on the road. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000981\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EGiven the amount of public support out there for that measure, I cannot believe that it has not been advanced in this bill. I mean, that is what National is all about. It is what conservative politics are all about. They are about waiting until somebody else tells politicians what to do. The public have told the Government what to do. They would love to see this bill focus on reducing accidents caused by drink-drivers, by having that level reduced, but it is not there in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000982\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI suppose that one of the other matters\u2014the title refers to \u201CRoad Safety and Other Matters\u201D\u2014is the fact that this is one of the few occasions when Steven Joyce has been rolled on an issue. Steven Joyce runs that Cabinet; everybody knows that. This is one of the occasions when he has actually been rolled. Steven Joyce came out and said it was ridiculous that he could drink the amount required in order to get to 0.08 grams and still be able to drive. But what happened? In typical conservative politics, the Government got scared. It got scared that there would be some sort of public backlash. I do not know where it thought the public backlash would come from, because the support for this measure is overwhelming. But the Government got scared and it backed down, even though Steven Joyce, the man who always looks after the optics, the man who runs that Cabinet, was rolled. That is why this particular measure has been removed from the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000983\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI would like to pick up on Jackie Blue\u2019s point about FebFast. The news out today is fantastic. FebFast raised $100,000 for youth alcohol programmes, but $100,000 is, unfortunately, a drop in the bucket in terms of what is required. I note that the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, in reporting back on this bill, saw early intervention and greater public health measures to support people with alcohol problems, and to support drink-drivers to kick alcohol problems, as real positives, but that the committee felt that those matters should fall outside the scope of this bill. This bill is about road safety and other matters. One of those other matters could have been more support for drug and alcohol services, but the select committee said no, that fell outside the purview of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EBut the truth is that the cuts that we are seeing this Government make to the health service in New Zealand mean that those services will not be available, and we will not be able to tackle the problem of recidivist drink-driving. There are larger prison sentences, and we can put a few more people into prison. But in terms of actually tackling the problem, the Government has failed to do that not only in this bill but also in the other activities that it is undertaking by cutting the money provided for the health services. This Government is making sure that there will be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000985\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2a2847df52e47529db3de8c6d060a67\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: No wonder he is worried about Leonie, if this is all he has to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000986\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d31682905abf4c62a476e24d0a73915a\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Who?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000987\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a82826aaa9a4cc4926cb5019810f768\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: The person whose business you protested outside.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000988\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022259aa1a712b0400c85ece97dd4b12486\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the word has got back to head office. Ha, ha! Anyway, the member opposite would like to talk about the campaign in Palmerston North. We will have plenty of opportunities to talk about that at some other time. But let us talk about this bill, because it is clear that National\u2014[Interruption] I tell you what; if the member who is interjecting wants to talk about asset sales, we can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8e97d2e650c446c96cadff94bf1d1e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000989\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8e97d2e650c446c96cadff94bf1d1e2\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E My, and Tau Henare\u2019s, esteemed elder from Ng\u0101ti Hine, Sir James H\u0113nare once said: \u201CWe have come so far not to go further. We have done so much not to do more.\u201D That, really, should summarise the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, because it does a heck of a lot, but it does not quite go far enough. It does a lot, but it could have done more. One of the big areas where it could have done more is in reducing the blood-alcohol level from 0.08 grams to 0.05 grams. That change would save lives. It would probably have saved the lives of the three people whom I spoke about earlier tonight\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276054b56b8da40e596a14680022de3d5\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: How many 15-year-old lives are you prepared to sacrifice? This is politics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000991\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a186e5f6735c4dc4a54145bea11ebb5e\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: There we go\u2014the mouse from the south is squeaking again. He is chirping from his seat, but he does not jump up and contribute anything of any substance. As I said, that reduction would have saved lives. Instead, as Iain Lees-Galloway has said, National members were waiting for some polls. They were waiting to get the feel of the nation before they made a decision for themselves. Despite the fact that National is a party that prides itself on individual rights and individual responsibilities, those values go out the door when need be. I think National members live by the rule: \u201CThese are our values, and if you don\u2019t like them we have others.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000992\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EAnother area where I think National members have gone too far is that of raising the age from 15 to 16 for new drivers. My daughter, for example, is 15. She is coming up to 16 in June. She is going for her licence, but we, as responsible parents, have decided that she is not quite ready to sit for her licence. She is allowed to drive when there is an adult in the seat next to her, but we have said she cannot go for the next stage until we think she is ready, and she will not be ready for another couple of months. That is our choice, as responsible parents, and I thought that was what National members stood for\u2014individual rights and individual choice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000993\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EBut, of course, in an instance like this National members throw those values right out the window and choose others. They are a bit scared of what the polls would say\u2014sorry, I should not have said that. But National is a party that has to wait for the feedback from focus groups, which ring around and find out what people will say. They test the waters with their little toe, and when things do not\u2014[Interruption] I think it was Winston Peters who said: \u201CYou don\u2019t test the water with both feet. Only a fool does that.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000994\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThis whole issue of raising the new-driver age to 16 hurts those of us who live in rural areas. In Kait\u0101ia we have a fledgling bus company that runs on biofuel\u2014would you believe it. Kait\u0101ia is the centre, and the company services an area that is about an hour and a half north, about 45 minutes east, and about 40 minutes west. This is a fledgling bus company. It is not as though there is a bus at the bus stop every 5 minutes, as we would find in the city centres. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000995\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe people up north cannot rely on a public transport service, so we need our kids to be able to drive. We have sports fields. Kait\u0101ia is the centre, but there are a lot of sports fields in outlying areas. Kids from Kait\u0101ia need to get out to their sports practices, and this bill will make things just a little bit more difficult. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000996\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EIt was interesting to hear Jackie Blue say there are many more cars on the road these days, and many more since she got her licence. That is true, and it makes us wonder why this Government is promoting policies that put more cars on the road. Why cannot the Government look at policies that remove cars and trucks from the road, such as investing in public transport and investing in a decent rail network across the country? As I said earlier\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000997\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4449864096041f19de7a4729bf590ab\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. I advise members on both sides of the Chamber that interjections should be directed to the person who has the floor. There should be no private engagement between members who do not have the floor. It is totally out of order, and it is discourteous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000998\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e61ef772074d4fafa74533a93f8bfc99\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you Mr Chair, but it is all right. We know that the Hon Tau Henare\u2019s best days are behind him, and Hillary College was a long time ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367000999\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI am not sure why this Government keeps perpetuating policies that put more cars on the road, instead of looking at ways of taking cars off the road and creating safer roads in that way. Government members talk about the Safer Journeys document. Surely removing heavy traffic from Northland\u2019s winding and shockingly upgraded roads would make life safer for us up in the north. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe booze bus is a regular visitor to Kait\u0101ia, because the police keep on catching people who drink and drive. I think we need to send a message to drink-drivers that we are getting harder and we will accept a lesser level of intoxication. I think that message should have been sent home, and it is a missed opportunity by this Government. It should have reduced the blood-alcohol level to 0.05 grams. As Sir James H\u0113nare said, we have come so far, but unfortunately we could have gone further. We have done a lot\u2014I will give the Government credit\u2014but we could have done more. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022add8df2d4a2d48cc97ed3dc73339d0f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022add8df2d4a2d48cc97ed3dc73339d0f4\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Associate Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, Mr Chairperson, I congratulate you on your new role as Assistant Speaker. I look forward to the contributions you will make in this House, as you have done previously. This is a great opportunity for me to take a call on clauses 1 to 3, which relate to the title, commencement date, and the amendment to the principal Act. A good point for me to begin with is a reassurance to Sue Moroney, who raised a few questions about commencement dates. I have those at hand, and I thought it would be worthwhile for me to comment on them. These were dates that the officials recommended to the Government. The Order in Council dates relate to matters that require\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e557cc4506f4729a911e9d90051702c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I have already cautioned members about interjecting on each other when they do not have the call. It will desist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022021232f3c6644d2292a9adb96186b68c\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: The Order in Council dates relate to matters that require the New Zealand Transport Agency to make substantial system and information technology changes to make provision for alcohol interlocks and also zero alcohol level licences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThere are two trigger points that I think are worth mentioning. The first date is 180 days from receiving the Royal assent. That timeframe is to allow consultation with health professionals. Obviously there will be quite a few forms and new techniques required. The other trigger point of 90 days after receiving the Royal assent will prepare for publicity and allow the police to recalibrate equipment, which is really important, such as roadside breath-screening testing devices for the youth zero blood-alcohol limit, and research into the harm caused by drivers with a blood-alcohol limit of between 0.05 grams and 0.08 grams. Of course, the day after the Royal assent is when most matters dealing with the repeal of existing provisions in the Transport Act will come into force.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe other significant point that I wish to raise is the licensing age increase. Supplementary Order Paper 229 proposes to make that change to the licensing age on 1 August this year, not 90 days after the Royal assent. The date of 1 August is a Monday and very much gives some certainty to parents and caregivers of young drivers, etc. I hope that that puts Sue Moroney\u2019s mind at rest on the commencement dates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThere has been quite a bit of discussion this evening about the blood-alcohol limit, particularly for youth drivers, and we know what is involved there. There has been quite a bit of debate from the other side, who are proposing that the blood-alcohol level be reduced to 0.05 grams. I did a little bit of research\u2014[Interruption] Members might be interested in this. In 2001 the then Minister of Justice, Phil Goff, said: \u201CIf we are going to change the limits, there would need to be hard evidence.\u201D Is not that amazing? So Phil Goff in 2001, as the Minister of Justice, said that we need\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec2e0b7470d1449d9f7a46591f1481c2\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: That was 10 years ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8000749524b42cfa606a45862072bf4\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: That is right. In 2001 Phil Goff said that we need hard evidence. He then sat at the Cabinet table for all of that period when Labour was in Government, and he did nothing. He did absolutely nothing. Now we hear Labour members crying out in Opposition, after 9 years of doing nothing while in Government, whereas this Government is now allowing the police to collect this very important data and research.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill is a very pragmatic bill, and we have seen that by the engagement we have had through the select committee process. I acknowledge members of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, who are from all sides of the Chamber. I acknowledge the contributions that they have made on this important bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWe all know that we need to do more on road safety, and I have heard from members opposite tonight that this bill does not go far enough. Well, this Government, in just a couple of years under Steven Joyce\u2019s stewardship, has done an awful lot on road safety. I think we should be proud of what this Government has done in its first couple of years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ba6d088e950466bbbc546f02baf9416\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Nanny State\u2014cellphones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241e06ef6eae042e6939410f8e7e604f0\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Now we have an interjection of \u201Cnanny State\u201D from the other side of the Chamber. On one hand those members are saying \u201Cnanny State\u201D, which was the catchphrase for them in the 2000s under Helen Clark, and on the other hand we have a pragmatic set of changes that will make a huge difference. We all know that our young drivers are causing a great deal of harm to themselves and to others on our roading networks\u201414 percent of the population causes 37 percent of fatal crashes. We are making some serious changes to address that issue, and I believe that it should have the widespread support of the Committee. I am disappointed that our Opposition wants to play politics on an issue that we are trying to address pragmatically.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022 data-id=\u002286ab5724178a4cd19c00c40a14e8cc42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286ab5724178a4cd19c00c40a14e8cc42\u0022\u003EHon MITA RIRINUI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Chairperson, and let me also endorse some of the comments of previous speakers in congratulating you on your appointment as Assistant Speaker. It is good to see you in the Chair once again, and I look forward to your reminding us of the Standing Orders, one after another, for a very long time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EPrevious Opposition speakers have stood and said that Labour supports the bill for a number of reasons, but I am actually quite amused by the contribution made by my colleague the Hon Tau Henare, who suggested that the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be renamed the \u201CDrink-drivers Are Going to Get Pinged Bill\u201D, which is probably what he believes. I would endorse that to a point. I would say that we should rename the bill the \u201CDrink-drivers Are Going to Get Pinged (but They Can Still Have a Couple of Beers More Before They Do Get Pinged) Bill\u201D, because what this bill fails to do is to take notice of public opinion. The public opinion is that the blood-alcohol limit should be lowered from 0.08 grams to 0.05 grams, and that clearly is something that the Government has ignored. As we know, it is very dangerous to ignore strong public opinion, particularly when it comes to matters of public safety on our roads, so that is something we are quite disappointed to see in terms of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EHowever, it is logical that we support this bill for a number of reasons, such as the zero limit for repeat drink-drivers and the zero limit for drivers under 20\u2014and we have seen much of that happen in recent years; actually, over the past decade or so\u2014the alcohol interlocks for repeat offenders, and the doubling of the minimum prison term for drink-driving, drug-driving, or reckless driving that causes death. These are all issues that affect all our communities. These are the issues that many of us, as parents, fear every time our young people leave home to go out and socialise with their friends, and all the time that they are out we sit at home wondering whether they are OK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EWe in this Chamber should do everything possible to ensure that our young people are OK when they go out and socialise, and that is why the Labour Opposition says that this bill does not go anywhere near to being enough to satisfy our concerns as we sit at home that our young people, our tamariki and our mokopuna, are safe out there on the streets and also that they are not endangering the lives of others. It is important that we have a rigorous debate about this particular legislation, knowing that at some time or another it may affect any one of us in this Chamber in the most tragic way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EI heard previous speakers refer to family circumstances. I am fortunate to have four sons. I have a 15-year-old who is coming up on 16 and who is currently about to go for his probationary driver\u2019s licence. I know that his teenaged ambition is to achieve that. He wants to be an automotive mechanic. Unlike my other sons, who have achieved to the very highest level in universities, he just wants to be a mechanic. He just wants to be a person who can take a motorcar to pieces and put it back together on his own. I come from a trade, as do many other people in this Chamber, and it is a satisfying achievement to have a trade behind one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002273f60731-048d-4a21-81c5-52d588de2325\u0022\u003EBut having said that, I look at the possibility of raising the age limit to 16 in terms of young people acquiring their driver\u2019s licence, and I think that my son will be fortunate to acquire his driver\u2019s licence at that age and enter an automotive mechanics course at the Bay of Plenty Polytechnic, and from there he can achieve just about anything he wants. If this legislation should come into force, though, it may be that it will restrict the ability of our young people in the future to achieve what many other young men and women have already achieved. On these courses, a probationary driver\u2019s licence is a necessity. One cannot get on to the course without it, and that makes a lot of sense. How would someone fix a motorcar\u2014pull it to pieces and put it back together\u2014if he or she does not know how to drive it? It is like many other things. If we do not understand how the particular pieces of machinery work, we will never become an expert at working on them. I want the Government to actually think about that. Although it is attempting to promote public safety, albeit in a mediocre way, it may also be limiting opportunities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022037c8c5f1db049058994cd41a72e9f6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022037c8c5f1db049058994cd41a72e9f6d\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chairperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f66b713f9492408c9d512f5cbdd98e7b\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I just seek clarification. Can you give me some clarification and point to where it states in the Standing Orders that when two members from different sides of the Chamber get up, a member from the same side as previously gets the call again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229476c73a2a8544d89730aa1071911a60\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, that is at the discretion of the Chair. Secondly, once I have called a member, I cannot take the call away from that member. I recognise the concern that the member has expressed, and I have noted that. The call has already been given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f555607b85de4832b7bb3eff008bdff4\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. It is very important that we note that your encyclopaedic knowledge of the arcane rules of Parliament has demonstrated that Tau represents zero waste, because in order for waste to occur, there has to be a product. For the entirety of this evening there has been no product. There has actually been an enormous amount of fog, an enormous amount of confusion, where that member prepared to deliver to his own Minister his commitment to vote against the bill. Mr Tau Henare had not chosen to read the bill; he did not realise that members on this side of the Chamber actually applaud some of what the Minister is doing in terms of taking a zero-tolerance approach towards very young and vulnerable drivers. Please, can we enable the Minister to provide that message to Mr Tau Henare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI will talk about the title of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. I suggest that it be called the \u201CLand and Marine Transport (Road and Marine Safety) Bill\u201D, as that would enable us to actually address the issue of the day, which is the gross danger and absence of safety in the marine environment today. There has been a total absence, a total disinterest, on the part of the Acting\u2014and I use that term in its fullest meaning\u2014Minister of Energy and Resources. I wish that the title of this bill had been expanded, because that would have enabled us to address one of the larger safety issues today. It does relate to transport: it relates to the intrepid yachties who are bobbing around out there, defending the rights of the tangata whenua up and down the Tai R\u0101whiti, and who have been long since forgotten about by members on the other side of the Chamber. All that those people are doing is ensuring that their democratic rights are protected, as they are transported around by yachts and as they stand against the dangers represented by exploration activity in the absence of environmental safeguards. That level of safety could have been addressed had we changed the title of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI also want to talk about the commencement date. I thank the Minister in the chair, the Hon Nathan Guy, for explaining to the Committee that there is a reason why all these dates and segments have been identified. It provides an opportunity for the police and various other agencies to prepare to enforce these rules. But that causes us to look at the Royal assent. I bring members\u2019 attention to clause 2(4): \u201CThe rest of this Act comes into force on the day after the date of Royal assent.\u201D Royal assent has a very proud and rich history. It goes right back to the Royal Council, at a time when Parliament was a pawn of the Sovereign. We have come right forward, although I feel it is necessary for me to point out to a number of members that in the time of King Henry VIII he sought to avoid using the Royal assent when he sought to execute his fifth wife. The prospect of execution\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6d51ab7d3034aab89977b61ea98e768\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve been watching Robin Hood again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264c3fd55ef2a4cf28f20200972b67518\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014and the most voluble member over there is actually\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ec83f36590542a3b0ed89d82debe1bc\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve seen this movie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa126d30195a4357a63479132e49c6a1\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Sir, please counsel the member. If he keeps going on like that, he will have another heart attack. He is getting too feverish; he runs the risk of having another heart attack. King Henry VIII, and I think it was some time in the 1500s, as he sought to execute his fifth wife, was not interested in personally exercising the Royal assent, and at that point he was able to deputise to commissioners so that he could effect the outcome and take his place in history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e39faf916cfc478baf27b7ed81d7369e\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Who played Henry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3eddfa3f5ac4301ab7387542767777a\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: The term of execution and that member\u2019s voice\u2014they are inseparable. The execution, unfortunately, for that member will be delivered by his colleagues. When we use the term \u201Czero\u201D we are actually thinking about that poor man\u2019s prospects. He has zero prospect of finding a seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00229c621e68a8914f938252f477015f6511\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c621e68a8914f938252f477015f6511\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman; it is an inspired decision. I am delighted to take a call on the title of, and the commencement date for, the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, but before I do, I wonder whether members will indulge me while I elaborate on the interjection on Mr Davis before the dinner break. I do not want him to think that I was being insensitive to the story he was telling in asking the question. I think that as he is not a member of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, he may not have known what \u201CBAC\u201D was. He looked a bit blank. But, sad though his uncle\u2019s death was\u2014and I say the same with regard to Mr Faafoi\u2019s story\u2014the point and the question I was asking was what the blood-alcohol content in his system was when he passed away. The fact of the matter is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a45e4a33a474d38b60a1f4b52386806\u0022\u003EKelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: 0.07.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210d4528965c84c2dba96d80ce2be5b2b\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Is the member putting that in Hansard now as an interjection, knowing it to be true? All right, it must be true, because he has put it in Hansard. There we have it on record: it was 0.07 grams. That is very interesting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ELabour members have spoken at length about research\u2014some 300 pieces of research\u2014that they claim demonstrates unequivocally that people are safer at 0.05 grams than at 0.08 grams. In fact, those 300 pieces of research do not say anything like that. What they establish is that the greater the level of alcohol content, the higher the risk. Well, that is hardly a revelation, is it? That has been known for a very long period of time. Some studies will go to a risk curve of between 0.05 grams and 0.08 grams, but the simple question, which is the premise of this bill and the reason for the collection of the research, still has not been answered\u2014that is, if a person has a blood-alcohol content of 0.05 grams to 0.08 grams, how many of the deaths and serious injuries on our roads are caused by people with that blood-alcohol content where those people are at fault? The simple fact is that we do not know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EAlthough we have a bill that is named the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, that question could fall into either of those categories, because it is a road safety question, but it definitely also falls into the \u201COther Matters\u201D category. It is on the other matters that I will briefly touch. One of the disappointing aspects of the Committee stage of this bill is that there are so many other matters that I expected members like Darien Fenton would have raised, because the bill goes to the issue of road truck safety. She made very few references to that\u2014I think she made one brief comment about it\u2014and none of the very excellent changes that this bill brings about has been mentioned by Labour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI could come up with a number of titles that Labour members might have suggested, although they did not. One could be the \u201CLand Transport (We Are Really Keen on a 0.05 Gram Limit but We Are Prepared to Sacrifice Our 15-year-old Boys) Bill\u201D, because that is exactly what those members are prepared to do. The unequivocal research states that those kids are far, far less safe on our roads. Just being a driver aged 15 to 19 without having had any alcohol creates a death risk five times greater than that of a 30-year-old driver. But Labour members are prepared to completely avoid any of that evidence in the interests of expediency and the fact that those 15-year-olds will be voters in 3 years\u2019 time. Labour has given away 2011; they want those 15-year-olds to vote for Labour in 3 years\u2019 time. As I said, I wish them good luck with that. Those members are prepared to allow those kids to kill and to maim themselves on the roads, but they are not prepared to wait for the equivocal evidence that exists right now to be much clearer in 2 years\u2019 time, when we will have created the evidence base that we need in order to decide whether to change the limit for blood-alcohol content. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI appreciate the call taken by the Minister in the chair, the Associate Minister of Transport, particularly on Ms Moroney\u2019s challenge about the commencement dates. There are very sound reasons why the taking of blood and, in particular, the new technologies that are available for the safe taking of blood from suspects\u2014which the Committee heard about\u2014will take quite a bit of time to be gazetted and put into practice in our hospitals and primary health care facilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWith that, I think we are coming towards the end of this Committee stage. It has been a robust debate. I am quite sure that members on the other side have nothing new to say, but the Chairperson may wish to challenge that. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba717d2ead014bb98d49bbcf099dec62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba717d2ead014bb98d49bbcf099dec62\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E I will talk on the title of the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. I think it should have another couple of words in it: \u201CSelective Evidence\u201D. What we have heard tonight is a lot of selective evidence to try to justify what is, in terms of the alcohol question, a pretty sad story. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EI will go back to what I was talking about before. What happened with this bill was that the Prime Minister, John Key, asked the Ministry of Transport to check whether a glass of wine might put people over the blood-alcohol limit. He was so nervous about that and what it might mean to the constituency that they decided not to change the limit. As it turned out, Mr Joyce found that he could drink three-quarters of a bottle of wine, which he termed \u201Cridiculous\u201D, before he was over the limit. But by that stage they had already made up their minds, based on thinking that perhaps a change would be too nanny State, to keep the limit at 0.08 grams rather than 0.05 grams. Here is where it becomes interesting, because there is a historical record that has nothing to do with evidence. Then Darren Hughes put up his member\u2019s bill to bring the level from 0.08 down to 0.05. What happened? Well, Mr Key said that National would make it a conscience vote. A lot of people over there on the National side would have voted\u2014I guarantee Jackie Blue, being a doctor, would have\u2014for the level to go down from 0.08 to 0.05. But Mr Joyce in caucus said \u201CWell, actually, that makes me look rather stupid\u2014or more stupid.\u201D So what he decided was suddenly it would be a caucus vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EBy this stage National has dug a hole so deep that it cannot get itself out of it, but popular opinion is two to one in favour of bringing the blood-alcohol limit down from 0.08 to 0.05. And so we should. As Michael Woodhouse just said, as the amount of alcohol permitted increases, the incidence of accidents increases. If we compare 0.05 with 0.08, there is a pretty good chance that the accident rate increases as a result of the extra intake of alcohol. That is what he said and I completely agree with him. Therefore I cannot understand why that party is still saying it is basing its policy on evidence, when it knows that it is based on political bungling on the part of Mr Joyce. That is what it is\u2014nothing less than a bit of political bungling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EIf Mr Joyce was really interested in bringing the road toll down by approximately five deaths a year, then he would probably do something about the road between Warkworth and Wellsford, the \u201CHoliday Highway\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e8a7d5c46424f0985f76b914368b4ce\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re banging on that drum again, are we?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa640779bdc843a197bbcd9c7e2f4994\u0022\u003EDAVID SHEARER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh yes. Five people a year die on that particular stretch of road. Instead, the Minister is improving at great cost\u2014more than a billion dollars\u2014the road between P\u016Bhoi and Warkworth. Why is that? Because people turn off at Warkworth to go to their baches at \u014Cmaha, including the Prime Minister. He has a bach at \u014Cmaha. I suspect that Mr Joyce finds himself going to that particular area, as well. Over the holiday period he does not want to be tied down by cars stopping him from getting to where he wants to go\u2014that is, of course, if he is not using the helicopter. Mr Key will now be able to drive up to \u014Cmaha in a seat-warmed BMW in the wintertime without any interference, because the road will be nice and smooth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EAs a result of that, work on the road between Warkworth and Wellsford is being delayed. On that road five people a year die. On the other road, from P\u016Bhoi to Warkworth, one person a year on average dies. We could make some incredibly simple, cheap modifications to that road, based on solid evidence. That is why I say the title of this bill should include \u201CSelective Evidence\u201D. Political expediency is why the Government is pushing through these clauses. We could make a real difference by improving the Warkworth to Wellsford road. We could make a real improvement in the status of the road.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThe other piece of evidence that has been overlooked in this debate relates to the raising of the driver age. We all know that anywhere in the world, not just here in New Zealand, drivers between 15 and 25 years old, particularly males, create the largest amount of traffic accidents and traffic deaths, but it is important to note, and nobody mentioned it on the other side of the Chamber, that that rate is coming down. In 1986 nearly 17 percent of all road deaths were caused by people in the 15 to 19-year-old age group. By 2006 it had dropped down to just over 11 percent. It is important to note that for that particular age group the rate of driving accidents has reduced. There is absolutely no evidence that pushing up the driving age from 15 years to closer to 17\u2014because by the time people get their full licences they will not be 16; they will actually be 17\u2014will bring about a decrease in road deaths.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003ELabour members agree with having better driver education. We think it is hugely important. UK driver education is superior to ours, and that could be a contributing factor in the road toll there being less. An extended learner period for drivers is also important. It is very interesting to note that when 15 to 16-year-old drivers are in a car with an adult, they have a lower accident rate than other adults. So it is not actually an issue of competence; it is simply an issue of experience in driving cars. Most studies will tell us that at least 250 hours of driving experience is necessary before somebody becomes a competent driver. So the experience of the driver, not the age, is the critical point here. No matter which age someone starts driving at, the first 2 years after they get their licence are the most critical, not only here in New Zealand but elsewhere internationally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EI think that, as a number of our speakers have pointed out, by raising the driving age to 16\u2014in effect, 17\u2014we will disadvantage many people, particularly in rural areas. Many people aged 16 or 17 have started work and are doing shift work. They will not be able to get to work. We will disadvantage those people, whereas today they are certainly not disadvantaged. Labour members are in the unusual situation of supporting Federated Farmers, because its submission was actually a very good one. It pointed out exactly what I just said\u2014the evidence as opposed to the rhetoric. I say that the position Labour is taking is possibly not the one that has the most popular support out there in the community, but we are taking it because we believe we should put in legislation based on evidence. The Minister of Science and Innovation, who is in the Chamber at the moment, will agree with me, because the Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Adviser just released a report that said our policies and our law should be based more strongly on evidence. I totally agree with him. Yet in this critical legislation the Government is willing to throw that evidence out the window.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa851f0-ef7b-4834-bc41-1b3b645a3495\u0022\u003EThe bill is supported by Labour. It has some really excellent provisions in it, but it falls short on the issue of alcohol and the issue of the driving age.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00226d53c95c6f374af99b426aea24aedd30\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d53c95c6f374af99b426aea24aedd30\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is 6 minutes past 8. [Interruption] I think that is evidence of the nature of that member\u2019s contribution to his caucus, but I do not want to go there, because the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill is a very important bill. I respect the contributions our colleagues have made on that side of the Chamber, because we will agree with this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThere are areas that our colleagues on this side of the Chamber are not all that flash on, but none of us is prepared to impede the progress of the bill. As one of the members residing in Dunedin said, we are probably getting towards the final stage of the Committee\u2019s consideration of the bill. But although he is a very avid contributor to the debate, I should say that his ability to influence the conduct of the Minister in relation to the interests of the people of Dunedin in terms of transport industry development or transport industry production is somewhere near zero. I have no doubt that he has sought to use his many skills, some of which come across with a somewhat haughty tone. He has sought to use them on the Minister of Transport. I can understand that, because he is dealing with a very tough character. Despite his using every technique of tone, stature\u2014diminished, of course\u2014and other skills picked up, and expertise sourced from his earlier forays on the rugby field, unfortunately he has not managed to protect one single transport-related job. He has not improved the safety and other matters of the workforce who are exposed to that part of the transport industry otherwise known as the rolling stock of the railway industry. But this is not about the railways, per se; this is about safety. I was unfortunately interrupted by Tau Henare\u2019s contribution of intellect, which was like an empty vessel\u2014loud but vacant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI will continue with my brief account of why Royal assent is very important. Tau Henare may wish to know that in the land of his ancestors, Scotland\u2014I personally have not seen my relation Tau in a tartan skirt; I think I have seen him in a piupiu\u2014Royal assent is not applied to legislation of the nature of this bill until a period of 2 or 3 weeks elapses. That enables an agency with a constitutional authority to refer the bill, in order to test its legality and lawfulness, to the highest court\u2014I presume the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe concept of Royal assent, as I have said earlier, is traced back to the concept of Curia Regis, the Royal Council, which comprised bishops, people of nobility, and people from the boroughs and shires, and was popularised by that person otherwise known as the father of parliamentary democracy, Simon de Montfort. Those are things that Tau Henare may or may not find of more than a passing relevance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThis evening we are coming to the final stages of the bill, and we are prepared to usher it forward so it can go to the next stage. We support any initiative that improves the prospects of our young people changing their ways. But of course before they change their ways, a number of us have to address our own ways. The less said about that, the better. In addition, we will support the Minister of Transport. We are disappointed that he did not accept our two or three amendments, but we will support the Minister, because he is largely carrying forward the seeds of a safety policy that originated from the previous Labour Government. He has picked up the Labour policy. Unfortunately, he has distorted some of the better elements to do with the alcohol limit and the point at which our young people should be able to drive legally, but deep down the underlying momentum has come from the previous Labour Government. We introduced a safety policy, and the Minister gave it a new name. The challenge the Minister has to address now is to extend safety into the appropriation of the National Land Transport Fund so that when it is spent, it is spent to improve safety. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022beb676bab21440b4a93865d0b080f7e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022beb676bab21440b4a93865d0b080f7e6\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This call will be short, but I will respond to Michael Woodhouse, who said that the research covers 15 to 19-year-olds. I think a new title for the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill could be the \u201CCome Down Hard on the 15-year-olds but Sacrifice the 16, 17, 18, and 19-year-olds to the Wolves Bill\u201D. If National members were true to their evidence base and research, they would not have cut out the 15-year-olds and said they should be protected, because, as Michael Woodhouse stated, the research covers 15 to 19-year-olds. I wonder what National members have against 16, 17, 18, and 19-year-olds. Surely those young people deserve the same protections that National members say 15-year-olds will enjoy under the legislation. To me it seems really rich that National members will die in a ditch for 15-year-olds but will sacrifice 16 to 19-year-olds on the roads of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EWhen Labour comes out with sensible legislation that protects people, it is called nanny State, but when National does it we hear from the Minister that the Government is being pragmatic. The bill is called pragmatic legislation. I think \u201Cpragmatic\u201D and \u201Cnanny State\u201D are synonyms; they will be found under the same heading in the thesaurus. If National members want to call this daddy State legislation pragmatic, then we will call it what it really is\u2014koro State legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe issue of the age of 15 is the low-hanging fruit. It was so easy for National members to say: \u201CWe did not want to risk a really big public backlash by saying that young people cannot get their licence until they are 19, so instead we will make it look as though we will make a really big difference by targeting just 15-year-olds, who cannot vote yet. We will not make them upset. But if we make it harder for 16, 17, 18, and 19-year-olds to get their licences, then, oops, they may not vote for us.\u201D They will see nanny State in action and they will remember it come 26 November. That is what the National Government has done. It has picked the low-hanging fruit. It has targeted 15-year-olds. National members do not care what happens to 16, 17, 18, and 19-year-olds, who are also targeted in the research. It is really sad that National\u2019s values flip-flop and chop and change depending on which way the polls blow. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Papers 226 and 229 in the name of the Hon Steven Joyce to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EClause 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb1c5cd6ef7243cfb11425ef46ca67a7\u0022\u003ECopyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002258b7018d2cd349caa273b1080f6809ee\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022 data-id=\u00224296784fa16c42cb89993d65cf2aad40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224296784fa16c42cb89993d65cf2aad40\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP (Minister of Defence)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Commerce: I move, That the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. On behalf of the Minister of Commerce, the Hon Simon Power, I thank the Commerce Committee for its consideration of the bill and for hearing over 200 submissions, which has resulted in changes to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EAs members of Parliament and those in the community who are interested in this issue will know, the bill has had a long genesis and has involved a complex debate on difficult issues. At the heart of the issues was the impact of the Internet on copyright law and the effect it had on incentivising creators to produce original works. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EIt is important in law that we provide appropriate protection for creative industries so that they can continue to provide jobs for New Zealanders and continue to contribute to our economy. But at the same time, the creative industries must adapt to changing technologies and the changing market place for creative works. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThe Copyright Act 1994 grants exclusive rights to creators of original works so that in a sense they can make an economic return on their creative endeavours. That situation provides a vibrant industry in the fields of music, literature, films, and software, in particular. So ensuring that copyright owners have effective measures to enforce their copyright is consistent with the Government\u2019s key goal of encouraging economic growth. However, amendments made to the Copyright Act in 2008 were intended to bring the 1994 Act in line with the contemporary digital landscape. These amendments included the insertion of section 92A in the Copyright Act\u2014and I note that Clare Curran, the member for Dunedin South, has written extensively on this issue in her various blogs\u2014which has required Internet service providers to adopt and reasonably implement a policy for the termination of repeat copyright infringers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EHowever, as the House will know, public and industry opinion was that section 92A was, in fact, unworkable. Accordingly, this Government stopped that provision from coming into force and undertook to look at the issue again. So this bill, the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill, repeals section 92A of the Copyright Act 1994, and also amends Part 6 of the Act to provide a fair and balanced process to deal with online copyright infringements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003ECurrently, copyright owners lack an effective enforcement measure against illegal file-sharing, which is somewhat practised by many people who use the Internet, often of a younger age group.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a18fe7a819bd465b87646878905154e0\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Do you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d51c18e88a8844f689309f373095b67b\u0022\u003EHon Dr WAYNE MAPP\u003C/span\u003E: I would not do that. However, I note that I do know younger relatives who may possibly have done that. Claims in the District Court for copyright infringement via file sharing would be too expensive and costly for both the copyright owners and for those wishing to contest infringement claims. The current process is unduly complicated in that copyright owners need to apply for a court order to get an Internet service provider to release an Internet account holder\u2019s details before they can make a claim. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThe bill provides for copyright owners or their representatives to send information showing alleged copyright infringement via file sharing to the relevant Internet service provider. The Internet service provider will then match that information to an account holder, and it may then\u2014and this is the important point\u2014send up to three infringement notices within the prescribed time frames. This is known as the three-notice rule. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EIf the account holder ignores those warnings and continues infringing, the bill provides for the copyright owner to take a claim to the Copyright Tribunal. The tribunal can make awards of up to $15,000. As other speakers will note, there are other provisions in the bill, including a provision for copyright owners to apply to the District Court, as opposed to the Copyright Tribunal, for the suspension of an Internet account for up to 6 months in appropriate circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThe key recommendation from the Commerce Committee is that provisions in the bill relating to Internet suspension do not come into force until such time as specified by an Order in Council. I should note that there were a large number of submissions on this specific issue, arguing both for and against Internet suspension as a deterrent for copyright infringement. The compromise recommended by the Commerce Committee and supported by the Government is one that provides the right balance between the interests of Internet users and the need for an effective deterrent against illegal file-sharing. The Government is committed to monitoring the infringement notice process and the Copyright Tribunal process in order to determine whether they are, in fact, sufficient deterrents to illegal file-sharing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EAnother key recommendation from the select committee is that Internet service providers will not be initially required to set up a notice-sending system for their mobile broadband networks, which, of course, are increasingly popular systems for file sharing. This covers a period of 2 years after the bill comes into force, whilst the Government monitors any copyright infringing activity from these sources as those devices increase in their capability. However, an Order in Council can change the date that these networks are included if there is a substantial increase in the volume of file sharing over mobile broadband, and that would be an essential part of noting change in technology and change in Internet capacity through broadband networks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EThere were a number of submissions on whether the bill should include specific exceptions to prevent an order or award being made by the Copyright Tribunal or the District Court against an Internet account holder. The Government considers that the Commerce Committee has developed a sensible recommendation on this particular issue. The committee has recognised that creating specific exceptions in itself would create loopholes, and has instead recommended that the tribunal or the court has the discretion not to make an award or order where it would be manifestly unjust. This will allow the relevant body to determine, on the facts of each case, whether an award should be made in the circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EIt is important to note that Internet users should attempt to ensure that their connections should not be used for illegal purposes\u2014that is a very circumspect sentence. There may be a number of useful technical procedural amendments proposed by the committee that the Government will support. The Government will put forward a Supplementary Order Paper in the Committee stage, which will propose minor technical amendments. The Supplementary Order Paper will also amend the commencement date for the Act from 1 July 2011 to 1 September 2011. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df788c48-b9be-42fd-b8f2-76629a5572b8\u0022\u003EIn closing, I reiterate the Government\u2019s commitment to ensure the Copyright Act remains a useful and effective tool for New Zealand\u2019s creative industries, which contribute significantly and whose contribution will increase in the future. As I know from my role as the Minister of Science and Innovation, they will contribute significantly to our economy, our culture, and our role in the wider world. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022a234505e51af42b49904b6e6352b81b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a234505e51af42b49904b6e6352b81b9\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I have mixed feelings about the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill coming before the House today. The House is in urgency, and given that the bill has been sitting on the Order Paper for months, nothing about today or tomorrow requires the bill to be passed quickly. The Government uses urgency excessively. Before I get into the substance of the bill I will quickly mention some recent statistics about urgency that were compiled by my colleague Grant Robertson. In just over 2 years of the National Government, 17 bills have been passed without referral to a select committee, compared with five or fewer in the full 3 years of the three previous parliaments. There are reasons to justify urgency from time to time, but not to that extent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EOne thing about the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill is sure: it did go to a select committee. There was robust debate in the Commerce Committee and throughout the community, and there has been much to-ing and fro-ing on the bill. The outcome is not perfect, but, with the support of both sides of the House, the legislation is better than what was passed in 2008. Labour supports the bill, but we still have reservations, and I will be speaking about them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI also want to say that in some ways I am pleased the legislation has come back before the House. It was the first portfolio issue of communications and information technology that I took on board, and I realised pretty quickly that the rising discontent and dismay among the community about new and emerging technologies and the creation and distribution of digital content had to be addressed, and that we parliamentarians were mostly out of touch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIf I thought I would get a straight answer\u2014although I think there was nearly one from over on the other side of the House earlier\u2014I would ask all members right now to put up their hands if they have, or if they know someone who has, illegally downloaded material. I would like to think that many of us, as a result of the discussions that have gone on around the bill and in the wider context, are now a bit more in touch with reality on what people are doing on the Internet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe bill has created a lot of interest. There were 237 submissions, including 31 supplementary submissions. In the coming years the Internet will become increasingly essential in all of our lives. Disconnection of accounts is a disproportionate remedy for file sharing. We needed a law, but we did not need a bad law. The bill represents better law. I know that it will not please everyone\u2014in fact, there are parts of the bill that some submitters still oppose\u2014but there are times when it is important to negotiate in order to get an outcome that is less bad than taking a high moral stand and ending up with something we fundamentally cannot live with. Negotiation is not a one-way street, and I am pleased to say that my experiences in negotiating with the Minister of Commerce, Simon Power, on the bill and in the Commerce Committee have been constructive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ELabour is prepared to support the bill through its remaining stages due only to a compromise that we reached with National that no New Zealander will have his or her Internet connection suspended as a result of the bill. Labour\u2019s preferred option was to completely omit account suspension provisions from the bill, but National\u2019s position was intractable. Account suspension provisions remain in the bill and could theoretically be used in the future, but any Minister who implements termination will have to wear the consequences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ERather than oppose the bill outright, we are prepared to compromise to ensure that New Zealanders are not denied access to the Internet, which is something that so many people rely heavily on today. If the suspension penalty is used, the Minister of Commerce will have to enact the clause by Order in Council, putting the onus on the creative industries to prove that there is a case to terminate access and that the notice system is not working. Let us be very clear: if it were not for this compromise, then the bill before us today would state that New Zealanders\u2019 Internet accounts could be cut off for 6 months. Labour would have opposed the bill, and it would have been bad law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAlthough the high moral ground might be a great place, it is not much good when we are left standing on our own and the world moves on around us. Labour wanted to have an impact on the bill\u2014and we have\u2014but we have not got everything we wanted, and we have not got everything that many in the community wanted. This bill is not Labour\u2019s bill. Section 92A was from our bill, and despite the good intentions to make it work, it resulted in a grand stoush between the different parties that led to a rethink. Labour pushed for, and supported, that rethink. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI will quickly mention the Supplementary Order Paper that is coming before the House today on proposed new section 122MA. I know that the proposed new section has caused some more consternation in the industry in relation to what appeared to be an attempt to push through a guilty by accusation regime, and to put the onus on the account holder to prove that he or she has not infringed when all the rights-holder has done is file a notice of infringement. What appears in the bill appears to put the onus on the account holder, and the words used\u2014\u201Can infringement notice is conclusive evidence\u201D\u2014are misleading and wrong. We understood they were wrong after the industry approached us, and we sought further talks with the Government. The Government agreed to amend the clause, and to ensure that once a notice is received and the Copyright Tribunal process triggered, all the account holder has to do is respond and challenge the notice. That will trigger a reversal of the onus and put it on to the rights-holder to prove that an infringement has occurred. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhat we have ended up with is better. The bill is not perfect, but it is better than the process in many other jurisdictions. Right now in the UK, implementation of its Digital Economy Act, legislation that is designed to crack down on unlawful file-sharing, is being delayed by a judicial review in the High Court because of a challenge brought by Internet service providers. Internet providers BT and TalkTalk demanded the judicial review, arguing that the legislation was rushed through Parliament without proper debate. They claimed that the measures unnecessarily impact on users\u2019 privacy and force Internet service providers to police copyright infringement on the Net. The courts will consider whether the Act is in line with the European legislation\u2014in particular, as it relates to users\u2019 privacy and the role of Internet service providers. If the court finds in favour of the Internet service providers, then the Act will no longer be enforceable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThankfully, the bill before us today was worked through, and compromise was reached, albeit somewhat grudgingly. That brings me to a reason why I am pleased the bill is before the House today, and why, if we had to choose, the issues in the bill that are plaguing people are kind of minor in comparison with the bigger picture. I refer to the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement, which is a free-trade agreement of sorts that is currently under negotiation between New Zealand and eight other countries, including the US. The agreement is an attack on our sovereignty, and what it currently contains in relation to intellectual property issues is truly frightening. Leaked texts of the Internet Protocol chapter reveal that if the agreement is accepted in its present form, and if New Zealand signs up, then the bill will be chicken feed in comparison. The Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement is the next battleground for intellectual property in New Zealand, and we all need to unite around it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAuckland-based Internet protocol lawyer Rick Shera has written about this issue recently. He said: \u201CThe return of s92A guilt on accusation, repeat infringer, termination of internet accounts\u20143 strikes \u2026 the US wants us to effectively scrap the last 3 years of consultation around the replacement of section 92A and the reasonably balanced (but still not perfect) approach we are working towards in the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill \u2026 Imagine you\u2019re an ISP who has to bear the cost of gearing up for that regime only to be told later in the year that its Ground Hog Day and we\u2019re all going back to the section 92A debacle.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ELabour has said that the leaked text on intellectual property copyright and parallel importing in the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations requires an emphatic rejection from the New Zealand Government. The secrecy surrounding these provisions is of real concern. The leaked United States provisions are plainly not in New Zealand\u2019s interests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill is a compromise. We support it, but we have serious reservations about suspension of Internet accounts as a penalty. Thankfully, termination will not be enacted. We are concerned about the costs of this new regime, about where the costs will fall, and about who will pay. We will keep a watching brief on the onus of proof issue raised in proposed new section 122MA and on whether mobile technology is affected and will be included in the legislation in a few years\u2019 time. The bill is a lot better than it was. As long as termination of accounts remains unenacted, we will support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u00224a5f847896944d07acaefab5fcbb6e3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a5f847896944d07acaefab5fcbb6e3a\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in this second reading to support the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill. Before I talk to the specific sections of the bill, I will remind the previous speaker, Clare Curran, about a little of its history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe original section 92A of the Copyright Act was added by the Copyright (New Technologies) Amendment Act, passed by the Labour Government and led by the Hon Judith Tizard. That section actually caused such an outcry from opponents and industry stakeholders that it raised serious concerns. I was not in Parliament to support that bill, but I know that Judith Tizard pushed it through. As a result, our National-led Government has not brought section 92A into force. A number of industry people were against the Labour legislation, and the Internet Blackout campaign drew international support against it. So it is rich that the previous speaker has come to this House and said that she grudgingly accepts this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EWe did a lot of hard work on this bill, and there was a lot of consultation with various stakeholders within the industry. What has come about, I believe, is a firm but fair compromise, which is about making the legislation more workable and effective. It discourages illegal file-sharing, and it provides more effective measures in order to protect our creative industries and help them enforce their copyrights not just in the Copyright Tribunal but in the District Court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EWhat does the legislation do? As the Minister pointed out, the three-notice regime includes Internet service providers sending warning notices to customers informing them that they have infringed copyright. Part of that regime is about warnings, but part of it is about education. A number of surveys have shown that people who share files do not actually understand that they are breaking the law\u2014they do not. Part of the notice regime is to educate those people. Many of them are young, but I would not totally blame young users of the Internet for transgressing the laws; I think that people across the board are part of the society that breaks the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe tribunal can award up to $15,000 in penalties based on the damages. The suspension regime that is part of this bill can be brought in by Order in Council. What is important here is that the Government will work with stakeholders to monitor and review the situation. We will monitor and review the situation, and if suspension is deemed to be the appropriate measure, based on the facts over time after a review, then that is what will happen. But suffice it to say that we need to monitor the situation. The Ministry of Economic Development will work with various stakeholders, including the member opposite, Clare Curran, who said she was none too happy about the result of this bill. But at the end of the day, I thought all parties were happy and that a fair and balanced process to deal with online copyright infringements had come about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EIt is a good bill. I think it will be effective and workable in the long run. Stakeholders\u2014certainly those who have come to me both personally and at the Commerce Committee\u2014are happy with the situation, which will be reviewed and monitored going forward. I support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u0022369127bfae8f47ec968fc38040dee722\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022369127bfae8f47ec968fc38040dee722\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am not on the Commerce Committee, but it is interesting that we are talking about conflict here. When the original Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill was proposed it was supported by National at the time, and it was actually the Internet service providers who as a voice, and as an industry voice, rose up and said they had some very real concerns about it. I heard the leader of our committee, Clare Curran, speak, and she did not attack it, at all; she said Labour had some reservations. I tell the House that we do support this bill, and this position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThis position has come about because this bill, I think, has not been rushed. It went to the Commerce Committee, and submitters were heard and given their day of having their democratic right exercised at the select committee. It is as the result of that, and of considerable negotiation, that we have come to this position today. We have serious concerns and reservations about the suspension of Internet accounts as a penalty for breaching copyright, but because of the compromise that has been reached democratically at the select committee\u2014and I congratulate all members and the chair\u2014Labour members are now prepared to support this legislation, and we reiterate that in the House tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EAll of us in New Zealand know that it is incredibly important for copyright to protect our local artists, our musicians, and our creative industry producers. They are the heart and soul of New Zealand, and their very success shapes us as New Zealanders and the face of New Zealand internationally. We would never want to damage those creators of creative products, who are very much at risk through the copyright provisions proposed in this bill. We in Labour strongly believe that those who create music, films, and other entertainment should have their work protected from piracy. I am sure members of the Government believe the same, because we are all incredibly proud of our creative industries, which are growing industries in New Zealand. The creative industries would provide opportunities for more jobs and more work if only the Government would put emphasis into the training of people in those industries, but we do not see that, at all. Our opposition to the suspension provision takes nothing away from the support of our local artists. We agree that repeated copyright infringements deserve a penalty, but the balance is all about what that penalty is, and what that penalty regime is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI congratulate those who spoke up and submitted to the select committee. Labour wants to give all of their industries a fair go, and to make sure that everyone pays their fair share. That is Labour\u2019s principled approach to most of our policy positions. There are jobs in this industry, especially in the information technology industry, and especially in interactive video games that are yet to be created, but they are intrinsically linked to the development of the \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D information technology identity. I think those jobs are very worthy and need protection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EWe still have serious reservations about the suspension of Internet accounts as a penalty for breaching copyright. Amendments were made and compromise was reached at the Commerce Committee\u2014and I congratulate members on that negotiation\u2014which means we will now support the legislation. I think that is positive. We were assured by the Minister in charge of the bill, Simon Power, that no New Zealander would have their Internet connection suspended as a result of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI think that National member Sam Lotu-Iiga was absolutely right; most people on the Internet, when they become Internet-savvy, do not use it to infringe. They do not infringe intentionally. But I know the younger generation, and I have certainly seen evidence of infringement amongst my children\u2019s generation when they download. I do not think they see that as being illegal, at all. If they infringe copyright with what they download, then we have a problem. Information technology creatives are also creative in finding ways around, and in circumventing, any disconnection. They will do that simply by setting up multiple Internet service provider connections, and we know that. This industry moves very rapidly in creativity. When in Government Labour was very aware of piracy, and we were aware of piracy in lots of areas too, such as films and lots of other creative products. We wanted Internet service providers to do their own policing of illegal downloading, and to have a policy\u2014just a policy\u2014for terminating active repeat offenders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EWe still have concerns about this bill, but it is great that we are debating it in the House tonight. The regulatory impact statement states there is a case for intervention, but there is uncertainty about the scale of harm done by illegal file-sharing. The case has not been clearly made that sales of music and movies via the Internet are decreasing due to illegal file-sharing. The regulatory impact statement did not have a preferred option, which shows that the case has not been clearly made that sales of music and movies via the Internet are decreasing due to illegal file-sharing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003ESome sections in the bill remain problematic. The infringement notice is a burden, and the bill actually says that people will have to prove that they did not in fact infringe a copyright. Some submitters raised concerns about that point at the select committee, and I am pleased that the Minister has attempted to clarify that under the Supplementary Order Paper put forward today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI think there has been a good process. It has been a robust process, and Labour certainly now supports the bill. I congratulate all of the committee members. I am pleased about the Supplementary Order Paper. I think we have to be very aware of the trans-Tasman implications. When we think we have fixed legislation in New Zealand, we may find some other global implications we need to be very careful of. But to all intents and purposes, we support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u00223a9c4fecd0fb48489c2efa2c31c07204\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a9c4fecd0fb48489c2efa2c31c07204\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a kotou. Kia ora. I rise to take a call on the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill. I acknowledge the hard work of the Commerce Committee members. I might be a geek, but I am not the type that can fix a computer. Information and communications technology is one of my 11 portfolios\u2014I have a bundle\u2014and to be honest I do not have a huge history of looking into technology or copyright issues. But I acknowledge that I really enjoyed hearing the submissions on this bill and learning more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI love New Zealand music; I love New Zealand film. I want those artists to make a fair living through their art. I thank all the submitters. The message I heard from them was clear. The Green Party will be opposing the bill tonight, because we have always opposed, and we continue to oppose, account termination or suspension as a remedy for file infringing, whenever it is written into legislation. Even if not immediately enacted, the termination provision should not be there\u2014full stop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Green Party also opposes the use of urgency to pass all stages of this bill through the House with no warning that it was coming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ETonight I will touch a little on my personal reflections on the select committee process, highlight the improvements that have been made\u2014because some were made in the select committee\u2014and, lastly, explain the reasons why the Green Party will be opposing this bill tonight. Without any technical background\u2014except maybe website surfing, gaming, and, no doubt, unintentionally listening to pirated material\u2014I went to the select committee to hear submissions on the bill. I went in with an open mind and I met with both sides of the debate outside the room. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn my first reading speech I focused on how the Internet had built connections, increased global communications, contributed to more collaborative ways of working, and revolutionised business and the global economy. The Internet has unleashed fantastic creativity from the arts to academia and business. However, making a business out of creativity is in some cases not viable because of illegal file-sharing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Green Party supported this bill at its first reading, stating that although we did not think it would solve all the problems, it might play a part in the solution, and we looked forward to hearing more in the select committee. The Green Party thinks the current bill is significantly better than its predecessor, which introduced the Draconian section 92A and was put forward by Labour during the last term. This bill repeals the existing section 92A legislation and replaces it with a \u201Cnotice and notice\u201D system, which copyright-holders can then use to go to an Internet service provider, which has the power to ultimately go to the tribunal to ask for penalties for repeated copyright infringement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI think it is important to remind this House that the Green Party was the only party in this House to oppose the section 92A nonsense at every stage. We offered amendments in an attempt to fix it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI acknowledge that significant improvements were made to this bill in the select committee. Those changes included clearing up the definition of \u201CInternet service provider\u201D; excluding universities; limiting the scope to cover only file-sharing technology, not one-offs from email or websites; and amending rules so that Internet service providers are no longer required to consider whether to accept challenges, reject them, or refer them on to rights-holders. All challenges are now passed on to the rights-holder. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIt is good to see that there is a Supplementary Order Paper from Minister Power on the Table addressing section 122MA, which is the \u201Cguilt on accusation\u201D section. However, the financial damages include a punitive element and are not merely compensatory. This is especially important in New Zealand, where often we are at the end of US or European-based supply chains. We can wait months or sometimes years to get access to content that is freely available overseas. The introduction of a compensatory penalty or, more controversially, a zero-dollar penalty for infringing against international products that are not available in New Zealand may have encouraged rights-holders to provide digital content sooner to Kiwis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EInternet account suspension as a remedy for file sharing was the big issue at the select committee, and the one that many submitted on. Determined opposition was clear from independent groups and consumers, as was the desire by rights-holders to wave this termination stick. The key question at the committee was whether suspension of a person\u2019s Internet account for copyright infringement was a needed deterrent tool that would, however unlikely, actually be used by copyright-holders, or whether it was an ineffective tool\u2014as David Farrar put it, \u201Can unproportional response, and a bad precedent.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn the end the select committee reached a compromise whereby termination was drafted into law as a remedy, but available only if the Minister enacted it in the termination clause. I like compromise and the idea of parties working together towards a solution, so I was initially very keen on it. But in the end, after really searching within myself, I came to the conclusion there was no way Parliament should be drafting into law something so disproportionate to the problem. It will not stop the pirating of copyright material, and it could take away people\u2019s access to the Internet, which in today\u2019s wire world is, I believe, a human right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe should remember that file infringing is a civil offence, not a criminal offence. Often people are sharing files because they are simply not available in New Zealand, because of the antiquated distribution system of the global behemoth that uses it to extract as much profit as possible. We should also remember that net profits have increased in the digital age for many film and music industry players, and only certain distribution channels have dropped precariously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EUltimately, I think termination should never ever be written into legislation. We believe it sets a bad precedent, is disproportionate to the problem, and will not solve the issue. The Green Party asserts that there is danger in heavy-handed regulation for a problem that may be only temporary and a result of new technologies upsetting traditional business models. The use of fines rather than Internet suspension is a more appropriate sanction for file sharing, and I believe that punishment should be proportionate to the offence. Citizens are not denied the right to use a telephone just because it happened to be used in the commission of a crime, and this legislation should not set any precedent. Access to the Internet has become a necessity in an era where more and more public services are provided only online. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EAn additional risk from the select committee\u2019s compromise is that, far from a compromise, it is likely to be just a delay. We cannot support this being written into law. The compromise deal reached to secure the Labour Party\u2019s support avoids responsibility and passes the decision on to the Minister. Parliament should be the determiner of this, not the current or a future Minister, no matter how well intentioned their comments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Minister, who obviously supported termination in the original bill, will now likely face an intense lobbying push by rights-holders keen to have this stick and wave it at Kiwis as soon as they can. As the Creative Freedom Foundation has pointed out, this is not a solution. In fact, it is a massive problem, because there are no Government statistics about infringing Internet downloading in New Zealand. The decision will be made on lobbying. Internet termination will be enabled in Cabinet, not in this debating chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn summary, the Green Party thinks this bill is significantly better than its predecessor. We are glad to see the changes made in the select committee, and we are happy that a compromise was made at the select committee so that termination will not be enacted immediately. However, we believe it is just a delay, and we cannot support termination being written into law. We support the three-strikes \u201Cnotice and notice\u201D system, and believe notices and fines will be sufficient. Research commissioned by the New Zealand Federation Against Copyright Theft found that a notice from the Internet service provider would be enough to stop 71 percent of New Zealand young people further accessing illegal copies of digital files. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe support Kiwi rights-holders and Kiwi artists, and we think the use of notices and fines, rather than Internet suspension, is a more appropriate and proportionate sanction for file sharing. Access to the Internet is vital for engagement with our modern world, and the Green Party will have no part in legislating it away from the people. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u0022b84323eb4fb84090bf117c7ff7f387c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b84323eb4fb84090bf117c7ff7f387c6\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to stand to speak on the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill, which deals with the concept of file sharing. In most cases the M\u0101ori Party would advocate that the art of sharing is a practice we endorse, but in this case sharing takes on the more negative meaning\u2014what is described as unauthorised sharing, which I guess in street talk might also be called pinching or theft. File sharing is about the transfer of material, usually music, movies, or software, via the Internet between two points, usually two Internet users. Sharing of copyright works often occurs without the authorisation of the copyright owner, and that is illegal. This bill is to provide new enforcement measures against the unauthorised sharing of copyright material via the Internet. It aims to deter file sharing that infringes copyright, deter and educate the public about the problem, compensate copyright owners for damage sustained through file sharing by widening the jurisdiction of the Copyright Tribunal to award damages, provide sanctions for serious copyright infringers, and limit Internet service provider liability that may result from account holders infringing files. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party is happy to support this bill throughout its remaining stages. Our research tells us that the creative industries are being massacred by illegal sharing overseas, and the same trends are very clearly starting to emerge here in New Zealand. We also know that there are an estimated 4,698 M\u0101ori directly employed in the creative industries, which are the most impacted by illegal file-sharing, and that does not include people in indirect employment such as lawyers or accountants. Take, for instance, local performing artists such as Stan Walker, Maisey Rika, or Bic Runga. Like most artists they will be affected by illegal downloading and file-sharing. Illegal downloading and file-sharing has resulted in a loss of income for the majority of local artists, and that has made it increasingly difficult for New Zealand artists to earn a living by making music in this country. That is despite the fact that excitement and interest in new local musical artists is higher than ever. Illegal downloading and file-sharing means that record copies are generating less revenue, which in turn means that we have fewer resources to invest in new New Zealand artists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EIn our consultation with various M\u0101ori involved in the industry, we were told it would be a huge drawback for copyright-holders to chase up infringement, because most copyright-holders are people who work on their own, with no infrastructure, no administrative support, and no coffers full of money to pay for the work required to do so. We were also told that no industry can sustain itself on a free model, nor can creators make a living if what they create is free. The bill, then, goes a long way to deterring illegal file-sharing. Even from the limited and selective consultation process we have been through, we know that M\u0101ori artists absolutely support this bill, as they believe it will have a positive impact on the ability of local artists to earn a living as musicians. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWe note also the advice of the Recording Industry Association of New Zealand, known as RIANZ. The association represents 60 major and independent record companies, more than 1,100 New Zealand recording artists and producers, and over 95 percent of commercially released recorded music in New Zealand. It told the Commerce Committee that the direct impact file sharing has on the record industry and its recording artists, including local New Zealand labels and artists, is substantial. Sales figures for the New Zealand music industry, including New Zealand and international artists, show that for the period from 2001 to 2009 the total value of album and individual track audio sales dropped from $119 million to less than $70 million per year. That seems a staggering reduction in sales, which essentially is at the core of the problem being addressed by this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThere was also some heartening evidence during the select committee stage that some basic interventions could make a significant difference. Judge David Harvey shared the results of the Synovate survey Movie File Sharing Amongst Young New Zealanders, which found that more than 70 percent of respondents in New Zealand would cease infringing activities if they received a letter from their Internet service provider. All it takes is a good old-fashioned letter. This finding has been corroborated by a similar survey in France in 2008, which found that 90 percent of users would stop illegal file-sharing after two warnings from their Internet service provider. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThere are some other relevant issues we want to raise in the debate. As we know, technology changes so rapidly that a bill such as this one could well be obsolete in a year or two, as Internet sharks find new platforms and channels that get around laws such as this one. Vesting the entire Internet copyright issue in regulation will ensure that the rules for such offences can be changed quickly to keep up with the changing online landscape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EFinally, I will just touch on the two major changes recommended by the select committee that we believe do not support the general intent of the bill. We suggest that suspension is not proportionate to the crime, as most people would cease illegal downloading after the first or second notice, and it takes a particularly belligerent person to ignore three warnings from an Internet service provider. The second change is to allow lawyers into the tribunal. This defeats the whole purpose of this bill, because a situation will inevitably arise where everyone will \u201Clawyer up\u201D at the tribunal hearings. All that will do is exacerbate the current problem that the cost of litigation exceeds the likely payout from taking someone to court. We do not support these changes recommended by the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EHowever, we are supportive of the Government\u2019s proposed Supplementary Order Paper, which largely appears to be about clarifying arrangements with the Copyright Tribunal. We believe that it is a good thing that the Supplementary Order Paper clarifies that the Copyright Tribunal should not automatically presume that infringements of copyright have been committed by an account holder simply because of an infringement notice. In other words, this is akin to the concept that people are innocent before the law until proven guilty, so to speak. More important, the Supplementary Order Paper helps to clarify the process and substance of a tribunal proceeding as it applies to this issue. It also amends the Copyright Act 1994 by increasing the number of members who sit on the tribunal from three to five. One might question the increase. We hope it is to ensure that the new member will have knowledge of tikanga M\u0101ori, be confident in the application of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and be well informed about the implications of Wai 262\u2014the flora and fauna claim. The M\u0101ori Party will support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u002295987449c8724eb59917ad0f69bdb534\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295987449c8724eb59917ad0f69bdb534\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to take a call on the second reading of the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill tonight. It is interesting to note that this bill repeals section 92A of the Copyright Act 1994, which was introduced under the leadership of Judith Tizard of the then Labour Government. We talk about technology and how fast it moves, and we know that since 1994 technology has moved extremely fast. What was relevant then is not necessarily relevant now. It is important when we are looking at legislation around technology\u2014for example, this bill, which is very narrow; it is about file sharing\u2014that we get legislation that can stay true for a period of time and will not be outdated. It is more principle-based, I believe, and that is the way it should be in order to ensure it stays current for a longer period of time in a very fast-changing environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe Commerce Committee worked really hard on this legislation, I have to say. The select committee had it for a long time. In fact, I felt very sorry for the officials when they first came in. I think I am relatively savvy when it comes to computers, but when it comes to file sharing my generation does not know much about it; it was not around when I first started using computers. It actually took them a while to explain file sharing to a few of us on the committee. It came down to having little boxes in front of the select committee, and the officials would explain that a bit is taken from this box and a bit from that box\u2014a bit from this computer\u2014until there are a thousand little bits and they make up a file. It takes a bit to get one\u2019s mind round it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223aa482dff0e94e5ea7767dcc6b21f65d\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: It does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fd74995a4e64eca89cfaa44ea04bb27\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS\u003C/span\u003E: That is right, I say to Steve. It took a little while for the committee to get its mind round what this bill was about. At the end of the day, the committee came to a compromise. We had a huge debate over how we discourage file sharing and how we ensure we are not over-regulating or over-penalising people who file share. But it is really important to remember that file sharing is actually an illegal activity. We talked about two things. One was Internet service provider warning notices. An Internet connection provider such as Telstra or XTRA would give customers a warning if they think they have committed a breach and have been file sharing. One can then get a second warning and a third warning. We also talked about it being about not just breaching it but knowing that one has breached it. A whole generation out there is coming through that does not understand that file sharing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ce4098f848049a48a685fbc19be084e\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d0aea6e0d4948188234d2840d938a61\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS\u003C/span\u003E: Or they do not care, but I do not think that is necessarily true. They do not realise that what they are doing is illegal and is not right. Out there we have peer-to-peer file-sharing programs. One can put a software program on one\u2019s computer and file share. What is wrong with that? I have three children, who are on the Internet all the time. I do not know whether, as a parent, I would be able to find out whether they are file sharing. I like to think they are not, and I like to think we have educated our children about it. But until I had this legislation before me at the select committee I did not know about it, I have to say. It is quite different from breaching copyright, where someone sends someone else a file. That is different again. If someone sends someone else a file, they may be breaching a copyright, as opposed to what this legislation is about, which is peer-to-peer file-sharing programs. I think it is important to educate the many kids out there. \u014Chariu, the electorate where I live, has very high usage of computers, especially by youth. It is really important that we educate our youth and their parents about what file sharing is, and educate them that we should not be doing it. It is different from breaching copyright, and we must bear that in mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EI am looking forward to debating this bill further in the House, in the Committee stage and the third reading. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00223539ac0697874d8bb2b23e7d6ce91417\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223539ac0697874d8bb2b23e7d6ce91417\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to stand and add to the very sound comments that have been made by my colleague Clare Curran, who, I want to acknowledge through this process, has made a really significant contribution to this debate. I think we all have to acknowledge, and I would like to see it acknowledged by Government colleagues, that the original version of the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill was drafted by the previous Labour Government, and it was supported by the National Opposition. We have acknowledged on this side of the House that we did not get this legislation right in its original form. We stand up and we own that, but we have not seen that kind of ownership on the other side of the House. I have some comments for the Green Party on its position, but I will leave those for later on in the discussion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI think we should all be up front here. There is one word to describe this legislation through all its iterations and that word is \u201Cfraught\u201D. This has been a delicate balancing act between two very important fundamental rights, particularly from the perspective of Labour members of Parliament. On the one hand, there is the issue of how to deal with the rapidly changing world, and we on this side of the House absolutely value the importance of having the freedom to access information and to access our creative industries via the Internet. That was very, very important to us from a social and a democratic perspective, and it was something that we wanted to protect. But, secondly, we wanted to protect the right of creatives, in particular, to protect their intellectual property. That is a fundamental issue for us if we are to have those people who work in the creative sector continue to make a living out of what they do. I have a few other comments to make on that further down the track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAt this point I want to declare an interest. As Labour\u2019s associate spokesperson on arts, culture, and heritage, I have a direct interest in making sure that we protect our creative sector and everything that it contributes to New Zealand from a cultural perspective. That includes music, films, the screen industry, and all iterations of our creative sector. So at the top of my mind when looking at this issue has always been how to balance the sector\u2019s needs with our overriding need to ensure fair and equitable access, and access to justice in considering whether someone has infringed upon someone else\u2019s rights. But let us be clear on this: not all creatives have sat in the same boat on this issue. I have had many come to me and say they acknowledge up front that the future of their industry has changed and they are embracing that change, and they want people to be able to freely access their work. But at the same time, we had the flipside where other creatives acknowledge that there was still an element of industry for them to be able to access.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EFolk on the other side of the House are holding up signs at me, and my eyesight is clearly going because I cannot read them. Perhaps Katrina Shanks will flash the sign again so that I can see it. It says: \u201CHave you ever file shared?\u201D. I am happy to answer that question directly for the member. To the best of my knowledge, I have not. What I will say, and this is where I will sound like a Pollyanna, is that I have always had a problem with the downloading of New Zealand music in particular, because I know New Zealand musicians. I know that they struggle to survive in the industry in New Zealand, and the last thing I want to be doing is stealing from them. That is how I always perceive them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecdfab6393be40148bfd1865023033dd\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Support and fund them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220daff2e3fba546dc931c19d79c771904\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That point is well made by my colleague. We have a dual role here not only in protecting their interests but also in supporting and fostering their industry. That is another debate and, if Chris Finlayson was open to having that discussion, I would like to discuss, for instance, his current bent on funding the classical arts rather than some of our more modern arts, but that is for another day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI want to quickly run over the on-notice process and how it will work, because there are a couple of elements in there that I want to clarify. We have already talked about the fact that copyright owners who can provide evidence of infringements will be able to request Internet providers to tell their customers to stop printing material. It is implicit that it will be the likes of the Australasian Performing Rights Association and the Recording Industry Association of New Zealand that will be taking this action. It is unlikely to be individual copyright-holders just because of the very nature of the costs that may be involved in this. That is something that this House must monitor. We must monitor the access that people have to this process. The first notice will inform the account holder that the infringing activity has occurred and that it is illegal. A second and third notice may be sent if an account holder ignores notices and continues infringing. If the account holder continues to infringe, then the copyright owner may seek a compensation award of up to $15,000 at the Copyright Tribunal. I raise the point that someone on Twitter with me this evening called this bill the \u201CGuilty Until Proven Innocent Bill\u201D, and I could see why they may give a label like that to this bill. That descriptor does not impart the account holder\u2019s right of rebuttal against an accusation. I understand that new section 122MA is clarified by the Minister of Commerce on Supplementary Order Paper 230. I hope that we will go over that in greater detail in the Committee stage to clarify that there is a right of redress for an account holder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe bill as introduced provides that copyright owners can seek the suspension of an Internet account only through the courts, and that suspension can be for up to 6 months. This provision remains in the bill but will apply only until the Minister brings it into force by an Order in Council. That is an important point. The Greens and Labour do not like this provision. We do not fundamentally believe that a right to suspend someone\u2019s Internet account should be contained in this legislation. But I make this point to the Greens: they know full well that had Labour withdrawn and said that we would not support the bill in its entirety, we would have the original provision sitting in this legislation now, and the right to suspend an Internet account holder\u2019s account would have existed from the moment the bill is enacted. This was a compromise. Although we stand against the provision, the bill could have been a lot worse had Labour not sat down with the Government and negotiated a much more palatable arrangement. We could have taken the high and mighty stance and stood back and said that we disagreed, and, as a result, we would have come back with something that I think a lot of people would have seen as being as unpalatable as section 92A, potentially. So we did compromise, and we are standing up and acknowledging that, but at the end of the day, we think that as a result of that negotiation we have a better outcome for both sides of the argument, on what I continue to believe is a very, very fraught issue. So that is a point of clarification that I wanted to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI have some final parting thoughts. I notice from some of the statements made at the Commerce Committee that a lot of weight has been placed on the idea that infringement notices will rectify this situation. I want to acknowledge that we cannot be too naive in the implementation of this bill. So, my first point is this: just because it is law does not make it so. Just because we have, in this House, written this piece of legislation does not mean that from day one, tomorrow, people will stop file sharing. We will have to enact this bill and act on the provisions in this bill if we are to protect the rights of copyright-holders. So education will be important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ESecondly, and very importantly for the sake of our creative industries, we as policy makers and as a Government and Opposition have a responsibility to work alongside the creative industries as they navigate this changing world. There are two things I would recommend to the Government in this regard. First, if we are to support our creatives in order to find a way to continue to make a living and survive in their area of work, we should not cancel the Pathways to Arts and Cultural Employment programme, which I know the Government is considering via Work and Income. Retaining that scheme is one way that we can work alongside our creative industries to figure out how to manage this changing world and how to make money out of creative industries, which ultimately benefit all of us, our communities and our cultural sector. Secondly, the Government should open the doors to the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement. That is the biggest threat facing our intellectual property holders, our creatives, at this present time. If the Government opens the doors, it will show all of us that we have nothing to fear, but currently I think the fact that the doors are closed means that we absolutely do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00224e310d62837b46209b39400d65048e1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e310d62837b46209b39400d65048e1b\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I would like, first of all, to thank the member who just resumed her seat, Jacinda Ardern, for her admission that Labour got it wrong with section 92A. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI rise to support the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill through its second reading. I recognise that the previous speaker referred to herself as a Pollyanna, and I think a Green member called himself a geek. I will not go as far as that, but I will follow in their footsteps and call myself creative. I will put myself in a little box, like those members have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EMs Ardern has just made the admission that Labour got section 92A wrong. She went on to say that we should also do so. I am a little bit confused as to why we should do that. This National Government is trying to fix a problem that was created and caused by Labour, and the Internet Blackout week in New Zealand was a result of the Labour bill, the Labour law. This National Government decided not to enact it, because there was an outcry over section 92A. We went to the public for consultation, and this bill is the result, the outcome, of the consultation process, the first reading, and the select committee process, which I have to say was quite long. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI appreciate the Opposition\u2019s support for this bill, because I also struggled with this issue. I have come from the creative sector and I see the benefit in both sides of the argument. I know that there are some brand new creatives out there, both singers and movie makers, who struggle to get noticed and often put their creative movies or music online, and it goes viral and ends up getting noticed. That is not quite the file sharing that we are talking about here, but I ask members to hear me out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe Korean movie industry, the huge Korean wave, which earns billions of dollars, came about as a result of viral file-sharing copyright infringements in other countries like China, where people downloaded movies and copied DVDs, and now it has become a humungous industry that makes a lot of money for Korea. Even in New Zealand I know that there was a Chinese students\u2019 group that put their drama online because they could not get anybody to make it. They virally spread the news and were so successful that it was picked up by a channel and it even went to China. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI see the benefit in promoting these creatives online, and possibly supporting the file-sharing issue. But the industry needs protection. I have come from the sector. I do not know how many other members on the other side of the Chamber have had the same experience, but as a fledgling screenwriter I know how long it takes to develop an idea, come up with a script, get that script to a producer, and get funding for something to be made. It costs time and a lot of money for that process to reach fruition and for that movie or piece of music to be made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI know that Steve Chadwick talked about the copyright issue. The piracy issue is big, but that is already protected. But this whole copyright file-sharing issue is not done unintentionally; it is done intentionally because we have something called the Internet. The development of fast Internet means we have a major problem on our hands. People download the software to share with their friends. It is not like me buying a DVD, giving it to Steve Chadwick, and saying I am sharing the DVD\u2014I cannot do that. I can purchase a video and share it with a friend, and I can buy a piece of music and share it with a friend. That is quite different from this. This is about people intentionally going to something like Torrent and downloading the file-sharing software intentionally knowing that they will infringe copyright. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EKatrina Shanks talked about little boxes on the table, as a way of understanding how this works. Even though I worked in television, even though I worked in the film industry, I had no idea how this peer file-sharing thing worked. I am in that generation, as well. I had to learn what this was about. It is incredible how they do it. They download the software and they put it up. There is Internet chat about it. Young girls and young boys, teenagers\u2014and I am not blaming the teenagers, mind you\u2014basically put up on a chat site a comment like: \u201CAnyone know how to download the latest movie?\u201D. I will not mention what it is. They start a chat line. They help each other to download movies that are not even released here in New Zealand. So they are breaching copyright, and they do it through Internet file-sharing, which should be illegal. I am very pleased that we have had to deal with this, because apart from helping us understand what this issue is all about, we will be able to monitor our children and our families and prevent them from breaking the rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAs I said, this is very, very different from getting a DVD and sharing it with a friend. I think it was a M\u0101ori Party member who talked about the fact that the recording industry has lost a lot of money. I know for a fact that from 2004 to 2009 the income the recording industry derived from sales actually halved. That was due to file sharing\u2014through illegal copies being shared among friends. With the advent of faster Internet, and with broadband becoming more available, movie industries are also in major trouble. I support the bill and I look forward to the Committee stage as this debate continues. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u0022178c491d78ae46138b48dff4879f60ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022178c491d78ae46138b48dff4879f60ca\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call on the second reading of the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill. Before I start I wish to acknowledge the great efforts put into the bill by the Minister of Commerce, the Hon Simon Power, and also the Hon Lianne Dalziel, the wonderful chairperson of the Commerce Committee. The issue of file sharing is not easy. The bill is a great compromise. I also thank my learned colleague, Labour\u2019s communication and information technology spokesperson, Clare Curran. Her press release dated 3 November 2010 was so good that it has been well read by stakeholders and interested parties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EDue to a last-minute compromise between Labour and National, no New Zealanders will have their Internet connection terminated as a result of the proposed new copyright laws. The compromise means that the provision for termination of Internet access as an ultimate penalty for repeat copyright infringement remains in the bill but cannot be enacted unless the Minister makes the decision to do so. The Minister would have to enact the termination clause by Order in Council, which puts the onus on the creative industries to prove there is a case to terminate access, on the Internet service providers to ensure that the system of providing deterrent notices to copyright infringers works, and on the Minister to ultimately make the call. Without that compromise, Labour could not have supported the bill. The compromise is important, realistic, and well warranted, but I acknowledge the points raised by Mr Gareth Hughes, and I look forward to seeing what his amendment has to offer at the Committee stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EI agree that we are dealing with the real world and with reality. In this world, in our modern daily lives, Internet access is fast becoming as necessary to us as the provision of morning or evening newspapers, or as important as television, cellphones, water, or electricity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the bill is to establish a regime that deters file sharing that infringes copyright, to educate the public about the problem, to compensate copyright owners for damage sustained from copyright infringement by file sharing, to provide sanctions for serious copyright infringements, and to limit Internet service provider liability that may result from account holders\u2019 infringing activities. The bill is largely about education and deterrence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EMuch has been said about the controversial section 92A and the widespread objections it has attracted. Some submitters at the select committee hearing described the section as one of guilt upon accusation. The bill repeals section 92A and replaces it with a three-notice regime, backed up by a $15,000 fine and a 6-month Internet suspension. Minister Power described the three-notice regime as the major feature that educates the public about illegal file-sharing and that provides effective methods for copyright owners to enforce their copyright. The bill ensures that infringers are given adequate warnings that unauthorised sharing of copyright works is illegal. The three-notice regime, despite its gentle name, seems to have won wider support as an effective mechanism. It is believed to be more effective than the much-hyped three-strikes regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EFollowing Judge David Harvey\u2019s wonderful submissions, he informed us that a survey in France in 2008 found that 90 percent of users would stop illegal file-sharing after two warnings from their Internet service provider. Judge Harvey also made available a copy of the 2008 Digital Music Survey conducted by Entertainment Media Research in the UK. The survey showed that 70 percent of users would cease infringing activities after one notice from their Internet service provider. In a local context, the Young New Zealanders and Movie Downloading survey found that more than 70 percent of respondents in New Zealand would cease infringing activities if they received a letter from their Internet service provider. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EI thank Judge Harvey for his contribution. I remember my early university days in Auckland, when I had the privilege of studying information technology law under Judge Harvey. The classes started at 8 o\u2019clock in the morning, and Judge Harvey, who is always energetic and thoughtful, would have to rush to the city campus of the University of Auckland and, 2 hours later, rush back to the District Court in Manukau. Judge Harvey is New Zealand\u2019s most tech-savvy jurist. His submissions enlightened me and the select committee, and I thank him for his great contribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ESubmissions from TradeMe, Two Degrees Mobile Ltd, the New Zealand Film Commission, InternetNZ, Computerworld, and the University of Auckland were good, too. The University of Auckland, in its submission, raised some important issues. It had two serious concerns, among others. The first concern was that the bill as worded is not consistent with the explanatory note. The university\u2019s second concern was that if universities, libraries, schools, or similar organisations are excluded from the definition of Internet service providers, then they are potentially liable as account holders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EI note that the Commerce Committee report recommends that the term \u201CISP\u201D\u2014that is, Internet service provider\u2014be replaced by the new term \u201CIPAP\u201D, which is Internet protocol address provider. I look forward to discussing the matter in more detail and, more specifically, relevant amendments to the Act, such as to sections 92, 29, and 122, at the Committee stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ELabour is prepared to support the bill through its remaining stages due to a compromise we have reached with National, as was explained by my learned colleague Clare Curran, who took the first call on behalf of Labour. The compromise means that provision for the suspension of Internet access as an ultimate penalty for repeat copyright infringement remains in the bill but cannot be enacted unless the Minister makes the decision to do so. Labour\u2019s preferred option was to completely omit the provision for account suspension, because it is Draconian, unnecessary, and would not work. The provision for account suspension remains in the bill and could theoretically be used in the future, but any Minister who implements termination would have to wear the consequences. Rather than oppose the bill outright, we prefer to compromise to ensure that New Zealanders are not denied access to the Internet, which is something that many people rely on heavily nowadays. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u00227e55c37288fc4679b4e8b5a229b919c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e55c37288fc4679b4e8b5a229b919c7\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I must admit that New Zealanders must wonder at times about the huge quantity of laws that we create. As a child I could never understand how Parliament could, full-time, create law after law, until I realised that because society, and in particular technology, changes in many regards, opportunities or technologies are created that then demand that regulation wraps around them in order to bring some order. What we are experiencing today, as we look at this copyright infringing law, is, essentially, the future meeting us. These are the sorts of things that people wrote about in times past, and today we are facing the challenges of legislating for that. When we think about it, we remember that Leonardo Da Vinci drew helicopters and that Jules Verne painted a word picture of submarines. Do members remember The Terminator? I am sure they do. The computer system\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224882f78fff144fcda41cc20040801b98\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CHasta la vista, baby.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022631439bc999c4934841f3393735d7b93\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: Yes! In that film a computer system called Skynet ruled the world. It was like the Internet today. The Internet creates so many opportunities, but also along with those opportunities comes the infringement of people\u2019s rights. This legislation is about bringing some order to the chaos that surrounds the globe because of technology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIt is really interesting to consider this technology of peer-to-peer file-sharing. A gentleman called Yochai Benkler wrote a book called The Wealth of Networks. He said: \u201CWhat is truly unique about peer-to-peer networks as a signal of what is to come is the fact that with ridiculously low financial investment, a few teenagers and twenty-something-year-olds were able to write software and protocols that allowed tens of millions of computer users around the world to cooperate in producing the most efficient and robust file storage and retrieval system in the world. No major investment was necessary in creating a server farm to store and make available the vast quantities of data represented by the media files. The users\u2019 computers are themselves the \u2018server farm\u2019. No massive investment in dedicated distribution channels made of high-quality fiber optics was necessary. The standard Internet connections of users, with some very intelligent file transfer protocols, sufficed. Architecture oriented toward enabling users to cooperate with each other in storage, search, retrieval, and delivery of files was all that was necessary to build a content distribution network that dwarfed anything that existed before.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWe have to say that the people who did that were brilliant\u2014teenagers and young 20-something people. Of course we know that when we look at the Internet today, we can see the people who started Google, Facebook, and Microsoft. They were just going to university or were just out of university\u2014and some of them were not even there\u2014yet their brilliance created those systems and opportunities. But what we face today is the fact that people use this technology without respect for the rights of others, particularly, as we have said, in relation to the creative sector of our society, which we all appreciate. We all enjoy movies. We all enjoy the music and the art that is created. We all enjoy the ideas that writers can portray. How accessible are they today? Well, it is absolutely amazing. Yet through of all this ability to access information through music, audio, and video files\u2014all of these things\u2014there is not yet coming with it the sense of responsibility, with regard to ownership, towards those who originated the works. The economic impact of the ability to file share is huge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIn 2004 an estimated 70 million people participated in online file-sharing, according to a CBS News poll, and that is an international figure. Nearly 70 percent of 18 to 29-year-olds thought that file sharing was acceptable in some circumstances, and 58 percent of all whom they surveyed who followed the file-sharing issue considered it acceptable in at least some circumstances. That meant that the total value of music sales dropped globally from approximately $38 billion in 1999 to $32 billion in 2003, which meant that a tremendous amount of money was no longer available to those people who had created the music.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EA survey in June 2009 here in New Zealand of 1,000 New Zealand Internet users between the ages of 18 and 70\u2014which is a wide range, is it not; it is a wide age range\u2014found that every respondent had downloaded copyrighted material at least once in the previous year. It is a common thing that has been happening in our society; legislation is catching up with it to bring a sense of fairness in the market place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThere are people out there who desire to make a living out of the gifts and abilities they have. That is a wonderful thing, and we want to support those people in it. I remember a person who came to the select committee: Anna Cahill, the executive director of the Screen Directors Guild of New Zealand. She said that one issue the select committee should understand is that the industry all around the world is grappling with trying to find a new model that works, both logistically and financially. At present no one model works, but in the future there will most likely be an efficient model, such as iTunes. I probably think that iTunes does work and is quite good. She said that in the meantime piracy was laying waste to the livelihoods of many people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI was able to converse with constituents from the wonderful electorate of New Plymouth in Taranaki\u2014we call it \u201CTaradise\u201D, for obvious reasons. One constituent said to me: \u201CI would like to comment on the recent drafting of the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill. This includes a new section 122MA that states \u2018an accusation of infringement is conclusive evidence of infringement.\u2019 This means guilt on accusation and is clearly contrary to the principle of innocent until proven guilty. The commentary to the bill says \u2018this is to have a fast-track system for copyright owners.\u2019 This is not what law is for. The law should be set to provide justice and fairness.\u201D I thank Peter very much for his comments and input into the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI am pleased to say that the Supplementary Order Paper that has come to the House states\u2014and we will no doubt discuss this further in the Committee stage\u2014that it will omit the phrase \u201Can infringement notice is conclusive evidence of the following:\u201D. It will substitute that with the phrase \u201Cin relation to an infringement notice, it is presumed\u2014\u201D. I was able to say to my constituent that the preciseness of matching infringing IP addresses to account holders, at precise times, is a bit like an electronic DNA. However, once an account holder provides evidence or reasons why a presumption is incorrect, it is then the responsibility of the rights-holder to prove that the presumption is correct. I think that we are making forward progress in a very difficult, complex, but exciting area. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EAmendments recommended by the Commerce Committee by majority agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002290eb80f6140e457d8b98f46515f54413\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 111\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022690d07436f6b469d95bdde62590ad2ca\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a89813c749934a7da71de0c094dc90ff\u0022\u003EPart 1  Infringing file sharing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u00223b2990d3ef214d5bb169061b5a8febf9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b2990d3ef214d5bb169061b5a8febf9\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to take another call tonight and continue this debate on the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill at the Committee stage. When I spoke earlier I said this was a difficult\u2014oh, our officials have joined us. I acknowledge them for the hard work they put into this bill, for the patience and perseverance they had with some of the Commerce Committee members in coming to terms with what file sharing is, and for the displays and the enthusiasm they showed in trying to get us to understand how when someone file shares they can get lots of little bits from everyone else\u2019s computers, pull it all together, and that is the file that is shared. It takes a bit for someone who was not brought up in the generation of file sharing to understand it. Even though I had a computer in the first job I had, so I have always worked with computers, technology changes. It shows just how fast people are left behind. My children would love to hear me say that. I always tell them I know exactly what they are doing all the time, and that I am like Big Brother and they cannot do anything I do not know about. In fact they can do a lot I do not know about, and what scares me is what I do not know. It is until we have legislation like this in front of us that we actually become aware of how fast technology moves and how fast we can get left behind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EIn earlier debate I talked heavily about the Internet service provider warning notices and how the committee had a big debate on that and the provision to terminate or suspend someone\u2019s account with an Internet service provider, an Internet service provider like Telecom or XTRA, if they broke the law and did some file sharing. I do not think people can accidentally file share\u2014that is the thing. If people are going to file share, they have to have the file-sharing programs. They cannot accidentally share someone else\u2019s files unless they have the software on their computer. To do that, they have to have made a decision as to the type of system they themselves will use to obtain files. I do not think people understand it is illegal to file share. If people do it, they are undermining the musicians, the artists, and everybody else, because they are not legally paying for the file they are receiving. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EIt is interesting how software develops over time as well. It is so common, and I had no idea that the software was so common. I did a little search on Google on Jonathan Young\u2019s iPad beside me. In fact, that is technology in itself. We had a good talk about the use of wireless locations, especially down at the Wellington waterfront where there is free wireless Internet. If someone has a laptop down there, a free wireless connection is available. Someone could be using third-generation technology, for example\u2014well, third-generation is not quite right, but someone could be using the wireless connection down there and could be logged on to someone else\u2019s system. If that person shared some files illegally, who is liable for that? Technology is moving so fast, and now people joke with me that I do not have an iPad but just a little old laptop that takes about 20 minutes to open. When I am still waiting to log on, the guys beside me have instant emails on their iPads, and they say: \u201CWhat\u2019s that old thing you\u2019ve got there\u2014that old big box?\u201D. Of course, it is a laptop that normally takes 20 minutes to log on. They have done all their work and have gone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003ETechnology has changed, and it is hard to make legislation that does not age fast, but stays current. That is why I am a big advocate of principle-based legislation, where technology may change but the principle stays the same in respect of what the legislation is trying to achieve. It was really interesting to talk about what youth are doing, how we can educate them on what they can and cannot do with their computers, what the most effective way to do that is, and the campaigns we can run. How many users are aware that what they are doing is right or wrong? It is really hard to be heavy-handed to begin with and to say we will terminate or suspend an Internet connection on a first offence or a second offence, when users have to learn what they can and cannot do, and what their boundaries are. So what do I and other parents do in \u014Ch\u0101riu, which has one of the highest levels of Internet use in the country? What do we do when a parent has a child who is file sharing and that parent, like me, is not quite aware of what file sharing is, and then all of a sudden that parent\u2019s Internet connection might get suspended? Well, that is really good! So that parent will talk to the child and try to educate them, but then the child may try to sneak something past the parent a second time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9f2ee806c8b4aae8ee46810ffd745ba\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: You could smack them!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7edce28b96b4979b90ed116d5c927da\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS\u003C/span\u003E: I am not even going to repeat what that member said to me about what he would do if the child did it a second time. If the child did it a second time, once again the parent could go in and say: \u201CYou can\u2019t do this. We are going to lose our ISP.\u201D If it happens a third time, the connection could be terminated and the whole house is affected. So there is a line and a balance between what is right and what is wrong and where the legislation can provide for suspension of an Internet connection. The situation will be interesting and we will watch it really closely. We will watch it and the stakeholders will watch it. The Ministry of Economic Development will work on it and watch it over a period of time, to see whether we can get some change just through education and issuing notices. It will be really interesting to watch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EMy colleague Jonathan Young talked about a survey that was done, and I want to talk through some of the statistics that came out of that survey. This survey was done by TelstraClear of 1,048 Kiwi Internet users aged between 18 and 70, like Jonathan Young was saying. When we are talking about such a wide range of people, we have to wonder about what type of software they have on their computers and what they are aware of and what they are not aware of. I know that my father-in-law, for example, is very computer-aware, but I also know that siblings come in and fiddle around with his computer. They load software on it and put their own little fixes on it when it falls over. I am sure he is not always sure about what software he has on his computer, and I think the same thing happens even for my generation. My son tries to do fixes on my personal computers\u2014not my work computers, Parliamentary Service will be pleased to know. He tries to do fixes and goes through a backdoor, which I always assume requires him to take screws off and undo the back of it, but obviously he does not. It is like an information technology backdoor that he talks about, which I have no idea about. It is hard to know what type of software we have on our computer at the end of the day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThe results of the survey are even more interesting: 46 percent of households interviewed had peer-to-peer file-sharing software on their computer. I thought that was a huge percentage\u2014I could not even imagine 46 percent of those people interviewed knowing what peer-to-peer file-sharing actually was. The survey said 48 percent believed that the prospect of being caught by police and fined was the most effective legal tool in trying to deter copyright infringers. That is pretty harsh, but it is interesting they thought that. The disconnection of broadband for repeat offenders was thought to be effective by 43 percent, and I would think that is where most people would be. For more than 50 percent neither measure was significant enough to stop illegal downloading. Music was the most copied content at 82 percent, followed by software at 49 percent, movies at 35 percent, and games at 31 percent. Those interviewed thought that content copying was widespread, and most planned to do it only occasionally. The survey said 32 percent claimed to copy music more than once a month, while 23 percent used iTunes, a legal online source. It is interesting to see the types of statistics that emerge when Internet users are surveyed on what they are doing and what they are not doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003EThis legislation is a good step in the right direction. We have a compromise. The Commerce Committee worked hard. It is important we have principle-based legislation, so that it can move with the times and is not caught up in the very fast-moving environment we are in. Nobody knows what is around the corner. This legislation is a step in the right direction. If it is monitored closely and is ensured to be working effectively, then it will stay in place for a period of time. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022f984704c6e434a098cb425755e68a898\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f984704c6e434a098cb425755e68a898\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to take this call as one of a number, I hope, in the Committee stage of the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill. There are many things to talk about, so I will start with trying to get to the heart of the issue as I see it for Labour, which is the suspension issue and whether people\u2019s Internet accounts should ever be terminated. That is something that Labour feels very strongly against. We are supporting this bill because we have reached a compromise where, although termination remains in the bill, it will not be enacted unless it is enacted by an Order in Council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EBefore I talk about that, I will just put it clearly on the record that Labour absolutely supports our local artists, musicians, and creative industries, whose successes have shaped New Zealand and the very face of New Zealand inside our country and internationally. It is really important to put that on the record, because a number of speakers have mentioned the importance of our creative industries. But I will also put on the record that it is important to support them not only in words but also in deeds. That means supporting our public media, our public broadcasting, and our public creative industries. Unfortunately, we are not going in that direction in this country at the moment; we are going in the other direction by making cuts to them. The cut to TVNZ 7 is probably one of the most significant cuts in terms of funding for a new digital channel in our new digital environment. That is where we should be putting our investment, but unfortunately we are not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI will read to members from one of the submissions brought before the Commerce Committee. Before I do so, I acknowledge the extraordinarily committed, dedicated, and intelligent hard work done by the officials during the debate. There was an awful lot of debate in the select committee. Some new, cutting-edge issues were discussed. Although some of the members around the table had a bit more of an idea than others about what was being talked about at times, the officials were very patient. I acknowledge the work they did by coming back over and over again with more analysis and more definition around some of the issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI will give members a picture on the issue of file sharing. I will be honest; one of my colleagues came to me recently and said she wanted to get access to a piece of music\u2014her favourite song. She has loved the song for years and cannot buy it anywhere. She does not know where to find it. She had tried everywhere. It is not on Amazon and she cannot get it in a shop. She does not know how to get the song. She asked me what she should do. I asked her whether she had been on the Internet and looked for the song. She said she had, but that all these file-sharing sites kept coming up. I said I would ask for some advice. The advice that came back to me was that because the song is not sold anywhere any more\u2014it is not available in any shop\u2014the only way to get it is to go to one of the BitTorrent sites and download it illegally. My colleague would not, and did not, do that, but that gives us an idea of why so many people are file sharing. They are downloading content illegally in an environment where they cannot get access to material because either it is not available in any other form or it is not available in their jurisdiction because the material has not been released. That is unacceptable and it demonstrates flawed business models across the industry that are not responding to consumer demand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI asked of every submitter who came before the select committee who represented a rights holder whether they had a business model in train to enable people to file share legally, and the answer was no. Essentially, that is a failure of the market and it is the reason why we are looking at this legislation today. The bill is putting in place a regime to, hopefully, educate people to cease the file-sharing activities that are being talked about\u201470 million items are being downloaded illegally. The only problem is that the alternatives are not great. That is one of the core issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI will read to you from the submission\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a427a7e94ac4d1ab6b5e4fef76299f2\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is referring to the person in the Chair when using the word \u201Cyou\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e262213cf2eb4fa3b0c593feafede725\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies. I wish to read to the Committee the introductory points from the submission of InternetNZ. InternetNZ is an organisation that could be described as being very future thinking. It represents many in the industry who are Internet service providers but also people who are passionate about the Internet. InternetNZ is what one would describe as a moderate organisation as well as being future thinking. The submission stated: \u201CThis Bill is a major improvement on the legislation it seeks to replace. Infringing file sharing is happening (and cannot be condoned), but it is important to consider the effects of it before deciding how to tackle it. The copyright content industries are doing exceptionally well, given the global economic situation. Sales are up and more money than ever before is going to Kiwi artists. This success shows that file sharing is not having a damaging impact on the industry, and that the evidence presented to that effect has been deemed unreliable by, among others, the United States government. Because the impact of file sharing does not seem to be major, Parliament should not take major, complicated and expensive steps to address it. It should not allow the content industry to seek aid in propping up an unsustainable business model. The best way to tackle file sharing would be to impose a notice and notice regime, where those found infringing get told their activity has been picked up.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThat submission was reflective of a number of submissions. The Creative Freedom Foundation is another organisation that started its submission by stating: \u201CWe support the purpose of this Bill. Changes in technology that have made copying easier have led to the need for new copyright enforcement processes that are effective for artists as rights holders, while maintaining due process protections.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWe had a number of submissions from reasonable organisations in a future-thinking space that said that some enforcement measures need to be in place, but that they need to be very moderate. We need to address the fact that there are flawed business models and that the Draconian measures of termination or suspension\u2014whatever we want to call it\u2014are overreacting to the size of the infringement. That is essentially the basis for the opposition to the termination or suspension of accounts as a remedy for file sharing. It is disproportionate to the problem. It will not solve it, because ultimately we are still left with the issue of where people can get their content legally. There are places on the Internet where people can get their content legally, but, unfortunately, many of those places require users to sign up. Those business models are starting to emerge, but they are not by any means available right across the industry. They are not available to most ordinary people in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAnother very good example of absolutely getting to the guts of the issue\u2014and which I mentioned in my first reading speech\u2014was the movie that I think won the Oscar\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb9dfefb7dea4133be4a09255418b0e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb9dfefb7dea4133be4a09255418b0e4\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. While you are in the chair, Mr Robertson, I congratulate you on your promotion to Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EIt is a real privilege to speak on the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill. I acknowledge, like my colleagues have done, the officials and the work they put in on the bill. The bill has been difficult in terms of balancing the competing interests. The stakeholders were quite passionate, shall we say, about their respective views and opinions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe bill is about balancing the rights of property rights holders\u2014and they are intellectual property rights\u2014with, as many speakers have already pointed out this evening, the developing and changing technologies that are inherent in this technological age, particularly around the use of the Internet. The bill is about protection of property rights. Although intellectual property rights are not tangible and cannot be held in one\u2019s hands, some submitters compared them with those of owners of private property, of landowners, of people who have private property rights that we clearly understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EIn trying to protect these property rights we must understand that investment, research and development, resources, time, and energy have been put into developing them. In particular, the creative industries put in a lot of time and resources, and a huge amount of risk is involved. There is a risk in terms of putting moneys up front, developing a product, a service or a technology, then seeing how that product is taken up by the market. If that product cannot be fully capitalised on in terms of its return, then questions arise. That was the original intent of the legislation in 1994: to protect intellectual property rights holders, particularly those in the creative industries, and to balance that against the developing technology. If we are going to have thriving creative industries, we must have laws that not only protect those rights but make them enforceable in a court of law or, certainly, in a tribunal situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThe argument put forward by the creative industries was that suspension is vital as the ultimate sanction. One of the submissions talked about a number of high-volume online infringements by individuals. In such cases a three-strikes graduated response would, in effect, be useless, superfluous, and redundant. That submission was put forward in terms of why suspension should be the final sanction. In many reported cases infringements have been made by not just individuals but groups of individuals who have abused the file-sharing technologies that are out there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003ESo that is on the one hand; on the other hand we heard from a number of Internet service providers. This point has not been raised this evening, but they talked about the costs that would be imposed on Internet service providers in implementing this regime. It would involve millions of dollars. We heard from a number of Internet service providers, and, when questioned, they went back to their respective organisations and made an attempt to quantify the cost of implementation. They came back and the figures were quite startling. The figures were in the millions. That put us as a committee on notice that the compliance costs of this regime, which no one has mentioned as yet tonight, are serious. A critical part of the consideration is that we do not over-regulate, or the regime may be counter-productive to, certainly, our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EOne of the other reasons that suspension was advocated was that the option of termination would penalise not just a single user, the transgressor of the copyright, but also other users who are part of the network. For example, where a teenager was the transgressor and the account was terminated, that might affect not only that teenager but that person\u2019s mother, father, siblings, and other wh\u0101nau or family members who are reliant on that account. Also, the issue of suspension was seen as not just one of deterrence; that regime would educate those who were transgressing against the legislation. A notice regime was important in order to send a message, a deliberate message if you like, to those who had infringed to educate them that they were, in fact, breaking the law. I think that was an important part of the consideration of the Commerce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI think the majority of us came to recommend the new section 122PA, in clause 7, which, in effect, brings together a workable compromise on this issue. The bill\u2019s provisions allowing for Internet suspension are retained, and would come about only if evidence indicated that notices alone were not having the desired effect. In this instance, the suspension provisions would be brought about by an Order in Council. I think that is a fair and reasonable compromise in terms of the dilemma we found ourselves in, because the competing interests, which were laid out by the various stakeholders in quite a passionate way, were quite compelling\u2014on both sides.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI think we need more evidence to make a more informed and more reliable decision as to whether suspension is, in fact, to be implemented. I think my colleagues feel, and certainly I hear from members opposite, that that is a fair and reasonable solution. Certainly, stakeholders of the industry will need to monitor it and cooperate with the officials at the ministry. I am sure that when the review date comes in the future we will have the evidence to suggest whether such a policy should be implemented. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a910f95bbcbb465f9b73d943debb3df8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a910f95bbcbb465f9b73d943debb3df8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I ask the Minister in the chair, the Minister for the Environment, what impact the negotiations in the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement will have on the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill. The reason I raise the issue is that I have before me an article by Brian Fallow from the New Zealand Herald on 31 March. In it he starts with what we all know: \u201CA balance has to be struck between on the one hand fostering innovation and creativity, by protecting the fruits of such labours, and on the other stifling progress,\u201D\u2014and actually causing cost, I would say\u2014\u201Cby making it too difficult and costly to access and build on the discoveries of others.\u201D That impacts partly on patents, but also has implications in respect of copyright. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI am one who firmly believes we need to protect the creative endeavours of the people who go to the effort to make creative content. Whether it is a new design, a piece of music, a piece of art, or literary works in the form of poetry or a book, the people who put in the effort should be able to protect that content and control its use in the future to a reasonable extent. The provisions in the bill relating to section 92 are predicated on current assumptions about the length of copyright. That section applies only if something is copyright. If it is not copyright, then copying it via the Internet or any other means does not infringe anyone else\u2019s copyright. No property right is being infringed. Therefore, the length of the term of the copyright is fundamental to how this legislation works in practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAccording to Brian Fallow, the leaked text from the US negotiators in the Trans-Pacific Partnership includes this ambition on the part of the US: \u201CThe US also seeks to extend the term of copyright from the life of the author plus 50 years to life plus 70 years.\u201D There are economic consequences of this change. Mr Fallow quotes a recent study by the Australian Productivity Commission, which said conceding that change would cost Australia between A$70 million\u2014NZ$95 million\u2014and A$240 million. The consequences of the Government changing the underlying rules relating to the length of copyright, if the Government were to buckle in negotiations with the US, are very substantial. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAlthough I agree that we should protect the fruits of endeavour for people who make creative content, I think there should be an end to the life of that protection. In the end, valuable copyright material ends up in the hands of corporates more often than not, if we are honest. Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck are not owned by the original people who drew the cartoons; some corporations will have purchased them from somebody else. The corporate interest that we create in copyright\u2014which actually confers monopoly rights on the holder of those rights; they are monopoly rights\u2014needs to be limited as to term, and that term should not be excessive. I for one think that even life plus 50 years is already a bit long. That is my personal viewpoint, but I am not advocating a change to it. I think that life plus 70 years would be too long, and I want to hear from the Government and the Minister in the chair that they are not going to concede that change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe next point they make in the article is that the very vexed issue in respect of section 92A, which is under debate here, will, if the Americans get their way in these trade negotiations, be up for grabs again. I am quoting again: \u201CRick Shera, IP partner with the Auckland law firm Lowndes Jordan, said the draft text reopend the vexed issue of the role of internet service providers in policing intellectual property rights. As ISPs are the conduits for infringing material, the film and music industries have targeted them around the world as the best place to throttle it. \u2018We thought we had almost got to the end of it with the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill due to be passed in the next couple of months,\u2019 Shera said. \u2018Imagine you are an ISP who has had to bear the cost of gearing up for that regime, only to be told that it is groundhog day and we are all going back to the section 92A debacle.\u2019 \u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI think it is an appropriate request for the Minister in the chair to give some undertaking to the Committee that we are not wasting our time on passing this bill, only to have the legislation effectively undermined and the issue reopened by the negotiations under the Trans-Pacific Partnership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7303afa67ce4e338a781174425fd557\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7303afa67ce4e338a781174425fd557\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, I compliment the members who have contributed to this debate. It is a pretty tricky balance between the copyrights that the National Party holds dear\u2014and people who create items that have value, such as music, film, and the like, being able to secure value from those creative endeavours\u2014and another pretty important right, the right of freedom. The National Party was founded on some very basic principles about freedom of expression, and the State being limited in the degree to which it can constrain freedom of expression and the general freedoms that we enjoy as New Zealand citizens. I want to put on record, though, the chequered history around this issue, and I note some of the contributions that have been made by Labour members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI do not proclaim to be an expert on copyright law. I commend the job that the Minister of Commerce, Simon Power, has done in this area. Like so many members of this House, I have had to become familiar with this issue because of the huge furore created by the passage of section 92A of the Copyright Act. Anyone who was in an electorate office, who looked at an MP\u2019s mail, or who was at the Nelson market has heard of section 92A. The first time I heard of section 92A I was not too sure which legislation it was in, but literally thousands and thousands of people were agitated by the bill passed by a previous Government in 2008. It got us into this pickle, and Simon Power and this Government have had to work through this issue in a balanced and sensible way. I think the provisions in this bill, and in particular the very constructive work done by the Commerce Committee, get us to a very sensible balance between those competing rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI will respond to a couple of specific points in the debate. Clare Curran brought TVNZ 7 and the creative industries into the debate. I have to tell members that in so many areas the previous Government left financial landmines that have gone off for this Government. In respect of TVNZ 7, the previous Government funded it for a limited period and said that it would become self-sustaining. Whether the issue is in relation to the work that Simon Power has been doing today in legal aid, the mess in ACC that I was left with, or some of the other problems that so many of my ministerial colleagues are dealing with\u2014including the area health boards and the huge deficits there\u2014it shows that the previous Government was financially reckless. It set up programmes that are unaffordable in these tight fiscal times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI challenge the Labour members who are interjecting. I have a simple question for them: do they commit to funding TVNZ 7? On the one hand they cry in protest that this Government, with all the challenges of the Christchurch earthquake and the global recession, has to make difficult decisions. We had an impassioned plea from Clare Curran that the decisions we have made about TVNZ 7 were absolutely awful and that we should fund it. I simply ask Clare Curran this question again: will Labour fund it? Oh! The silence is deafening. We have a Labour Opposition that is playing politics and is not prepared to commit its opinion to say it would fund it. It truly shows how hollow Clare Curran\u2019s criticisms are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI shall come to the thoughtful question from David Parker in respect of the issues around copyright and the Trans-Pacific Partnership discussions. The first point I make about the discussions is that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241fdd878b0484a03a67814fedbda07f6\u0022\u003EClare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Secret negotiations\u2014why are they in secret?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290334df3f28f407ea50f79965ad139f0\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Look, it is really interesting is it not? The member interjects that the negotiations on the Trans-Pacific Partnership are occurring in secret. Well, I have a simple challenge for her: when her party was in Government and negotiating the free-trade agreement with China, were those negotiations all held in the open? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c1a4abf397344b3bb684373e4f00520\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022775d8068e6864bcf989eb5cbb4990b85\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish! They were not. Exactly the same protocols about the negotiation of the free-trade agreement that occurred with China are occurring with the US. But, you know, we all understand in this Chamber that there is an ugly anti-American language, probably, amongst that party\u2014I think it was a \u201Cgaggle\u201D that one of the Labour members referred to; I think it was the self-interested trade unionists who were referred to\u2014in relation to the anti-Americanism there. Members on this side of the Chamber are proud to say that a free-trade agreement with the United States would be good for the living standards of New Zealanders, and good for trade, and providing we can get an agreement that is in New Zealand\u2019s interests, that is something we will advance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EBut I also want to clarify an issue for Mr Parker. He assumes that all of the copyright issues between New Zealand and the United States are one way. Well, that is to significantly discount the huge creative industries that exist in New Zealand. Let us take Dave Dobbyn, a wonderful musician, and his musical product of \u201CLoyal\u201D\u2014right? Should he be able to claim the copyright and value for that production? We as members of a party for property rights say that Dave Dobbyn deserves to be able to protect the property rights of his creation, and so should other talented musicians and filmmakers whom this National Government is very keen to advance. We want to protect those sorts of talents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EFurther, I point out a hole in David Parker\u2019s approach\u2014as a typical sort of self-interested unionist; I think that is the phrase\u2014in saying that these copyright laws benefit only corporates. Let me tell members the point. Let us say there is an argument to be had about how long copyright should apply. Should it be for 50 years after the death of the author, for 60 years, or for 70 years? Mr Parker argues that the only people who would benefit from that copyright would be corporates. Let me tell members why that perspective is incorrect. Why is that incorrect? Generally, what happens with musicians, artists, and films is that a person sells that right on to a corporate, and the value that that person receives as an individual and a creator of that copyright material is dependent on how long that value is for. So any extension in the period of copyright would play as much to the benefit of the creator as it does, ultimately, to any person who might purchase that right; and the sort of anti-business rhetoric we continue to hear from the political left undermines New Zealand\u2019s interests in respect of those trans-Pacific negotiations. Again I stress that this is a really balanced and sensible response to a difficult issue, and I think this bill should be commended to the Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f277f30ceeb947cfa4ea997dffbe2446\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f277f30ceeb947cfa4ea997dffbe2446\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. I would like to take a few calls but I am not sure whether my voice will last long enough. I am not sure whether members are aware that a parallel debate is happening right now on the Internet, on Twitter. The debate has already gone to The Pirate Bay, where people are using peer-to-peer software to move this debate around. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn a Senator Ted Stevens moment\u2014Senator Stevens was the guy who famously said the Internet was \u201Ca series of tubes\u201D\u2014Jonathan Young has now been immortalised as the creator of a meme, with his fantastic comment that the Internet is like Skynet from The Terminator. Already Tweets and pictures with that meme have gone around. That shows the power of the Internet and how fast it moves. The debate online has already moved much, much faster than the debate in the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI will make a couple of comments on Part 1 of the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill. I will start with clause 5, which repeals section 92A of the Copyright Act. I have heard members from both National and Labour blaming each other for the mess that the last Parliament got itself into with the deplorable bill that introduced section 92A, the Copyright (New Technologies) Amendment Bill. I heard Labour members blaming National members for voting for the bill, and National members blaming Labour members for bringing it in. In fact, both parties are responsible for that bill, and only the Green Party members can stand here and say we did not vote for a single reading of it. I would like to see a bit more responsibility taken from members in both parties for legislative actions in this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI thank the officials in the corner; they did fantastic work. Unfortunately, I could not find the gigantic flowchart they prepared for us to try to explain the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill. I say to them: \u201CKia ora. Thank you very much.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI heard from Miss Street that when it comes to Internet account suspension there is no evidence. I heard from an honourable member that no compelling arguments were presented by the advocates for account suspension. I do not get why we are putting the provision into the bill when both sides agree there is not the evidence to back it up and there are no compelling arguments for it. Everyone in this Chamber agrees that education is the key. We all agree on fines and notices, yet we had to go one step further and write this deplorable account suspension provision into the bill. That is why I have introduced an amendment to take the deplorable series of clauses from 122O through to 122PA out of the bill. Frankly, account suspension provisions should not be in legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe have heard some good arguments from Labour members on why account suspension is bad, but I have heard in the debate this evening two different things. From members on the left side of the Chamber I have heard that they have a guarantee from the Minister in charge of the bill, the Hon Simon Power, that accounts will not be suspended. Yet from members on the right side of the Chamber I have heard that if suspension is appropriate, it will happen. There is a disjunction between the comments of the two parties, and I would like to flesh out the facts. The compromise is being presented as a great common-sense solution. I want to get the facts on the table and find out exactly what is happening with these clauses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe fact is that an account suspension provision is still in the legislation. I am sure Labour members\u2019 intentions are good, but the fact is that their perspectives on the negotiations are solely their perspectives and not necessarily those of reality. National had the numbers, so maybe it just called Labour\u2019s bluff. I am sure Labour members are all crack negotiators and well skilled in negotiations, but what if they had stayed strong to their principles? What if they had gone to the Minister and, based on their principles, said: \u201CNo way. We are going to fight it with all of our breath. We are going to run another section 92A campaign and get rid of this deplorable legislation.\u201D? What if? We will never know, because we are hearing only one side of the negotiations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EMinister Power has a track record of building cross-party support for his legislation in Parliament. I am sure that would have been an incentive to bring together robust legislation that did not have this deplorable clause allowing accounts to be terminated. The fact is that I admire and acknowledge the intent of Labour members, but I just do not trust the Government when it comes to the bill and its provision to enact account suspension through an Order in Council. I do not know why Labour members trust the Government. Labour members do not trust the Government on GST, tax, and workers\u2019 rights. Why all of a sudden would Labour members start trusting the Government on digital copyright issues? It is just amazing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Green Party was not involved in any of the out-of-select-committee negotiations, so we do not know what was discussed. I ask the members on both sides of the Chamber what was negotiated. Is there a piece of paper? What was the deal? None of that information has come out, yet Labour members are telling the New Zealand public to trust them, that they are crack negotiators, and that they have struck a great deal with the Government to make sure that account suspension never comes into force. Yet National members are saying that the Government will bring it in if it is appropriate. Where is the deal? Will anybody table the deal? Is it on paper? What is the threshold for account suspension to be brought in? Will there be any public consultation when the provision is enacted by an Order in Council? None of those questions is being answered, and the public have a right to know why. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn the absence of the information being out in the public I urge parties to support my amendment to take the termination provision out of the bill. The provision can come back to Parliament, because that is where it rightfully should be decided on, not by a Minister through an Order in Council. The decision should be made in Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe are making a big call tonight on the State\u2019s power to come in and turn off people\u2019s Internet account for a civil offence\u2014not even for a criminal offence. Essentially, the legislation has a disproportionate remedy. It will not stop the pirating of copyright material and it takes away what I believe is a basic human right to the Internet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Hon Mr Parker raised an interesting point about the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Was the partnership discussed in the deal? Is the termination provision in the legislation a reserve in case we need to enact it under the Trans-Pacific Partnership? Why is the provision in there? If the Minister cares to take another call, I would like to know what his threshold will be to enact the provision. Will the Minister guarantee that the provision will not be enacted in this term of Parliament? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn summary, we all acknowledge that the bill is a step in the right direction after the old failure of section 92A, but the Green Party cannot vote for the bill with a clause on account suspension written into it, even if it is not to be enacted. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022450f54a52cac4b1f9aaadd27153b32e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022450f54a52cac4b1f9aaadd27153b32e5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will respond to a couple of the points the Hon Dr Nick Smith made, and also reinforce some of the issues I raised that he did not address. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe first is that he hurled across the Chamber what he thought was an insult. He said we on this side of the Chamber should be ashamed of ourselves for being in favour of union movements. That is not something we hide; we are actually called the Labour Party. If ever people wanted evidence as to why unions are necessary to maintain and improve the rights of low and middle income workers they have only to see what the Government did this year with the minimum wage. The minimum wage went up by 25c a week in the face of all these huge increases in the cost of living. People cannot rely on the Government to get a wage increase; they have to organise their own rights to have a bit of countervailing power in their negotiations with employers in order to earn enough money to live. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe other issue I raised and put to the Minister in the chair was whether National would extend the monopoly rights conferred through copyright, pursuant to the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations. We all know that National has an abysmal record in terms of controlling monopoly excess. One example it should really be ashamed of at the moment is its failure to strip out some of the billions of dollars of excess pricing we have in electricity, as found by the Commerce Commission in its 2009 report\u2014$4.8 billion of overcharging. Dr Smith will get to his feet and say we did nothing about it while in Government, but that is wrong. We regulated prices for lines, and we set up the Commerce Commission inquiry that reported just after we left Government and proved the $4.8 billion\u2014or 18 percent per annum average\u2014overcharge by the State-owned energy companies, which National will now sell, entrenching that price gouging and making it even worse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThat is why, on the basis of that history, it is right for me to come to this Chamber and inquire whether what National will do with monopoly rights in respect of copyright will be another example of plundering at the expense of consumers, as it favours the interests of the copyright-holder. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI have already said that I agree with copyright. I think we should protect copyright for creative content. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251af76e9e0ca4f0ebec43151eaf4850f\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s the second time you\u2019ve said it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce00737d2b164cbea60678a8c13861a7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Smith did not hear it when I said it the first time. I think we should protect copyright, but that does not mean it should last for ever. They are monopoly rights that enable people to monopoly price. Monopolies ought to be controlled in the copyright area, as everywhere else. That is why there is a limited term to copyright in law; otherwise those monopoly rents can be extracted for ever. That is the theory that lies behind copyright, behind patent law, and behind limited terms to both patent and copyright. That is why Brian Fallow is right to state in his article that the US trade demands on intellectual property are a real sore point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200f87b7f2e5b4c19ae1647989b967c2b\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t read it from here, David.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb2d7c7a838b44c3a1aad4adbf00fa52\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot? Well, I will read it out to him. The headline states: \u201CUS trade demands a real sore point\u201D. Protectionism provisions in Trans-Pacific talks should alarm our Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EDr Smith also said all our negotiations on the New Zealand - China free-trade agreement were in secret. Not so, I say to Dr Smith. There were regular briefings of Business New Zealand and the Council of Trade Unions by the Labour-led Government. Grant Robertson was involved in them, so the Minister in the chair should not suggest that we had that same level of secrecy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe still have not heard from the Minister whether he will reopen the vexed section 92A issue, pursuant to the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement, and whether he will upset the fine balance that has been achieved and endorsed by legislators. I again quote from the New Zealand Herald article of 31 March by Brian Fallow: \u201CFine balances have been achieved and endorsed by legislators, Shera said, but the US agenda in the secretive TPP process could drive a coach and horses through much of that.\u201D That was said by Rick Shera, a partner of Lowndes Jordan. I am sure he is a competent person; I have no reason to doubt that his views are credible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022882d48f1b85a44a58f12cea4042bbef4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022882d48f1b85a44a58f12cea4042bbef4\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I will not go there, in terms of responding to what Mr Parker was talking about, because I think he is simply anti-American. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EBefore I get on with my speech, I thank the officials who are here in the Chamber. As previous speakers have mentioned, the officials have put up with a lot of our ignorance about what is happening out there. Some of us have talked about the generational differences and the fact that we were not getting to grips with how file sharing was happening. The problem is not about just file sharing\u2014it is not like sharing a copy of a DVD. It is actually the unauthorised sharing of copyright material via the Internet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EClare Curran said unauthorised file-sharing was happening on the Internet because some material was not available on the Internet or anywhere. She gave an example of a colleague who wanted to get a copy of a piece of music that was not available anywhere, and she suggested that the only place her colleague could possibly go was to one of the Torrent websites. She qualified that statement by saying that her colleague did not go there. I hope she did not mean to say what she insinuated. To say that just because something is unavailable and someone does not have it, that person could do an unauthorised activity and ignore the right of the copyright-holder, is totally like saying that if someone does not have the money, and has no ability to earn it, they have the right to go and steal it off somebody else. That is pretty much a similar thing. Breaking a law, whether it is an assault on a person or an assault on copyright, should be punished, not excused. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EDuring the Commerce Committee\u2019s consideration we heard many submitters from both sides of the argument. I want share some data that, I think, came from the Motion Picture Association. When we look at the monthly infringement rates per country in 2009, we see that we did pretty well. We are down here on the graph I am holding, at third to last. When we look at the breakdown of the monthly infringement rates per capita, we see that we are way up there, behind only Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EWhat is really interesting about the data is that on both of the graphs Korea is last. I am not just trying to plug Korea because I was born there. It is really interesting that Korea has the most Draconian law when it comes to Internet and online infringement. It was the first country that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5850f2d11b64cf4a503c9583bf01b8f\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What about Uzbekistan? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1638989b4824e20b72ed75e44d33c81\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: No; Korea. It was the first country to suspend online accounts because people infringed copyright law. It was the first country in the world to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003ETwo in five in New Zealand youth download movies for free. The majority of those infringers do not feel guilty that they are taking income from creators, such as New Zealand bands and movie-makers. Perhaps Clare Curran is right in that if more of this music and movie material was readily available, people would not download illegally. But unless the industry can be protected, there will not be incentives for businesses to develop business models and innovative tools so that users can legitimately access the range of content while protecting the rights of the copyright holders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EIt is similar to when we are growing vegetables. If we are not very successful we get help from somebody else. Internet communities are the same. If we want something, we share files with our friends, our peers, but at the moment the way people are going about that is to do it illegally. They are file sharing copyright material, and that should not happen. In order for creators to flourish, we need to protect their rights, and I think this is a fantastic thing we are doing. I commend the bill to the Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022 data-id=\u0022314827be5c724687a33d56166b3f9c11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022314827be5c724687a33d56166b3f9c11\u0022\u003EMOANA MACKEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I was not sure I would take a call in this debate, but I thought that was an extraordinary contribution from the member who just resumed her seat, Melissa Lee. It highlights the lack of any kind of plan from this National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe example my colleague Clare Curran gave went to the nub of the problem. We are making these changes because we want to support New Zealand artists and to support their copyright rights. We want to make sure they are not losing enormous amounts of money, and to make sure they are not prevented from continuing to do what they want to do because of people illegally downloading and obtaining their information. That is what we want to do, and that has to be the end goal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee said that the Labour Party was saying it was OK for someone to download illegally, and that that was like committing assault, but that was not what Clare Curran said. Clare Curran said that if people cannot find online something they desperately want to purchase legally, they may eventually go to a file-sharing website because they were not able to find it anywhere else. A solution would be to work out as many ways as possible to allow people to find this information and these products legally. It is about prevention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EThe National Government\u2019s approach to law and order is all about passing at the tail end ridiculous legislation such as the three-strikes legislation, which will do absolutely nothing to prevent crime. It does all those things at the tail end of the spectrum, after an offence has happened, and they do nothing to keep people safer, at all. National rubbishes all the great work that the Labour Government did in trying to prevent crime through early intervention. It rubbishes it, calling it PC and namby-pamby, and loads up ridiculous laws such as the three-strikes legislation at the ambulance-at-the-bottom-of-the-cliff end of the spectrum. Melissa Lee was suggesting we do that in this area, as well. Labour members are saying we want to make sure people can access things legally. That will be the way that we solve this problem\u2014as well as having a penalty at the end. But to say that the penalty at the end will solve the entire problem is not being realistic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI pay tribute to my colleague Clare Curran. This has been a very difficult issue. It has been ongoing. As the Minister in the chair, the Minister for the Environment, has said, a number of us have received numerous correspondence through our offices on this issue. It is an issue that strikes to the very heart of the freedom that New Zealanders feel they should have when they are accessing the Internet. We need to determine whether the punishment fits the crime, and try to balance it with the need to protect New Zealand artists and their work and ensure they are not losing their livelihoods. It is a very difficult balance to get. I congratulate Clare Curran on the work she did in trying to find a compromise and trying to find a safeguard. It is not perfect by any means\u2014not perfect at all\u2014but it is a compromise and it is a safeguard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003ELabour members did not have to do that. We are in Opposition. The Government had the numbers to push through the original law as it was. We could have just railed against it, shouted into the wind, and said how terrible it all is, but we wanted to be constructive in this area. We wanted to find a solution that works and also protects the rights of New Zealanders, so that they do not feel they have a kind of Big Brother, over-the-top Government approach coming down on top of them. It has not been easy, but that is what a responsible Opposition does. That is what a responsible Opposition has done in this case. As we said, the solution is not entirely perfect. If we were in Government we would probably do it differently, having learnt from our experience when we were in Government. But \u201Ccompromise\u201D is not a dirty word, and the compromise in this respect and in this regard is far better than what would have gone through had Clare Curran, as our spokesperson on communications and information technology, not put in that work to try to find something that would allay the concerns of all those people out there who were contacting us before the last election and post the election about the excessive nature of that particular penalty under the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270dd644d-8bcf-40dc-998a-887d62d24a76\u0022\u003EI was disappointed that the Minister in the chair chose to attack my colleague David Parker in the way that he did. I think the issues that David Parker was raising were actually very sensible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022536ae8ebf66f4609ac50e3b5e99737c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022536ae8ebf66f4609ac50e3b5e99737c4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I want to respond to a few of the points that have been raised by members to add to the debate we are having this evening. The first of those I want to respond to is from the Green Party and Gareth Hughes. There is a fundamental problem for Green Party members: they do not understand that rights go with responsibility. It does not matter what area of endeavour it is in. With this area of the Internet, the Greens are very strong on rights but very light on responsibilities. I have a question for the Green Party. In our law governing our transport system, we have a right for people to drive a car. But also we have in our law the responsibility that goes with that right. The ultimate sanction for the courts is to take someone\u2019s driver\u2019s licence from them and to prohibit that person from driving for the broader public good. Frankly, our road transport system, which requires order, would not operate without that sanction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWe could look to another sector, such as telephones. The member rightly says that telephones are historically a basic right. Telephones have become a pretty essential part of life. Yet in our laws it is possible that if somebody abuses the privilege of a telephone\u2014they use it for improper purpose, they make abusive phone calls, and the like\u2014the courts have the power to take away that person\u2019s telephone as the ultimate sanction for not respecting that right and the responsibilities that go with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWe have other areas\u2014for instance, radio telecommunications, using old walkie-talkies and those sorts of forms of early communications. Again, there are rights there that are balanced with responsibility. This bill provides a whole lot more checks about the steps that need to be gone through. But, ultimately, we are saying that if we cannot control the Wild West and the abuse of copyright, then the law needs to have the ultimate sanction to be able to suspend a person\u2019s Internet connection. This Government brings to this debate that proper trade-off that goes into a society with rights and responsibilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI also want to respond to some of the points made by David Parker, because I really think they exposed some pretty flawed thinking. David Parker argued that copyright is a monopoly. I think the member has it all wrong. Copyright is actually about a private property right. If a person such as Dave Dobbyn creates a magnificent piece of music such as \u201CLoyal\u201D, do we oppose his being able to control the distribution and use of that music? Is he exhibiting monopoly rights over his creation? How is that different to me expressing my monopoly rights over the house I own, the monopoly rights I have over my car, or the monopoly rights I have over a creation I make as an engineer, in my field of endeavour? I really think that for Labour to align copyright with a monopoly right is a flawed perspective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EDavid Parker was a Minister of Energy in the previous Labour Government. He was in charge of the electricity network when we saw the highest price increases ever in the history of New Zealand\u2014a 72 percent increase in power prices. The gall! He now stands up in this Chamber and lectures a Government that is seeing substantially less increase, and I have the figures. During Labour\u2019s period in Government, power prices went up by 8 percent per year. In the first 2 years of this Government, they have gone up by 4 percent per year on average. I ask members to remember that that includes the introduction of the emissions trading scheme and the increase in GST. I say to members of the Labour Opposition\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227728ddfe5fab4b51b9359f4a6c6daa89\u0022\u003ERaymond Huo\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. What the Minister is trying to say has nothing to do with the current bill. It has no relevance whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022532b8a5475ff48f3a14236a90583dc75\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is replying to previous issues raised in the debate. He can do that for a little while.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022405a4da16df444e0b98d77e479a2a32d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: It was Mr Parker who somehow in this debate introduced the issue of power prices. I just wanted to tell the Committee a few home truths about what has been going on in that sector. I can understand that if I was a Labour member, I would be pretty defensive and would not want to hear a few hard facts about what has actually happened with power prices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI stress again that I think Simon Power, the Commerce Committee, and the officials have done a really balanced, sensible job on this important bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00229bed733a3a4f48da8b3f39ba792f311b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229bed733a3a4f48da8b3f39ba792f311b\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I appreciate the chance to take a very short call on the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill. This call is directed at the Minister in the chair, the Minister for the Environment. I would like his response to a particular issue. I have been following some of the social media traffic in relation to the bill\u2014and people are keenly watching the debate in the House tonight\u2014and I am seeing two pieces of feedback coming through. The first is there seems to be an adverse reaction to the Minister\u2019s references to Dave Dobbyn, and the second is about an incredibly important point, and that is the definition of \u201Cfile sharing\u201D within the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef25dda9734a484b967b25c3d28bc767\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t sing \u201CLoyal\u201D in the Labour Party at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022328b51251e6e4e4d91d5f36102f19193\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The member may jest, but I have an important point to raise. Originally in the bill the definition of \u201Cfile sharing\u201D stated: \u201C \u2018file sharing\u2019 is where material\u2014(a) is downloaded from the Internet; or (b) is made available on the Internet by a user in a form in which the material may be downloaded by 1 or more other users; or (c) is transferred, directly or indirectly, via the Internet from one user to another user\u201D. That was the original definition of \u201Cfile sharing\u201D. Under that definition everyone who has ever used the Internet probably, by default, falls under the definition of having shared files.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBut we do, of course, have a new definition. After reading the InternetNZ submission, I have to say the new definition of \u201Cfile sharing\u201D is very similar\u2014other than the omission of the word \u201Cprotocol\u201D\u2014to the original suggestion from InternetNZ: \u201Cfile sharing is where\u2014(a) material is uploaded via, or downloaded from, the Internet using an application or network that enables the simultaneous sharing of material between multiple users; and (b) uploading and downloading may, but need not, occur at the same time\u201D. As I say, it is a very similar definition to that worked through by InternetNZ\u2014with some caveats and some trepidation, I have to say. InternetNZ was of the view that more work needed to be done on this area, but I imagine that, for the sake of expediency, InternetNZ made a recommendation during its submission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI would like to request the Minister, given that Hansard will be used as a record going forward in the way that this bill is applied in practical terms, to give the Committee his view of the definition of \u201Cfile sharing\u201D, how he sees that definition being applied once this legislation is enacted and becomes law. For instance, does he believe that it includes an attachment to an email? How far does his view of this definition go? I think clarification from the Minister would be helpful for this debate. I am not going to give my interpretation, because, of course, as a Government Minister his definition on record in Hansard will be much more important going forward. I look forward to hearing the Minister\u2019s contribution on that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022c84ea6a14da447f3bcb41757836d6c8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c84ea6a14da447f3bcb41757836d6c8b\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E There are so many things to say. Essentially, there are a couple of things I want to address. The Minister in the chair, the Minister for the Environment, opened a can of worms when he talked about fundamental principles. He started by talking about principles but then basically attacked Opposition members. He then talked about the fundamental problem with the Green Party. Well, I would like to tell the Minister what the fundamental problem is with the National Government, and it is that it is full of hot air. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe Government is full of rhetoric that does not match the reality, and there are so many examples of that. I would like to bring one example to the attention of members tonight that has core relevance to this debate: the importance of investing in our heritage and in our cultural content. Essentially that is the thing we are trying to protect through this legislation by providing copyright\u2014protection of the creators\u2019 works. Unfortunately this Government is taking away the funding, the support base, and the confidence from our creative sector, which is a great tragedy. Unfortunately this is the awful rhetoric we are faced with from this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ELet us look at some of the facts. The Minister attacked the Labour Opposition in relation to TVNZ 7. Television New Zealand appeared before the Commerce Committee last week and told that committee, which saw this legislation through and did all the hard work, that it was no longer a public broadcaster. Television New Zealand said it had been instructed that it was a commercial broadcaster, and that was before legislation has been passed through the House to disband the public sector charter. We are making Television New Zealand into a commercial broadcaster. There is no public broadcasting in this country; there is no investment by this Government in cultural content, which this legislation is designed to protect. We are ring-fencing the funding for Radio New Zealand and squeezing the heart and soul of New Zealand content. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EBasically the Minister has contributed only hot air to this debate. He does not understand the issues. If it was the actual Minister who is taking this legislation through the House who was getting up and talking about principles, maybe we could have taken him seriously. This legislation, and Labour\u2019s support for this legislation, is based on principles. Labour\u2019s support for legislation is always based on principles. If we want to talk about the monopoly issue versus the failure of the market, which underpins this whole issue but which this Government refuses to address, then I want to make some comments about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI refer members to another submission. It was a very sensible submission provided to the select committee by one David Farrar. Mr Farrar, whom I may not always agree with on a number of issues, makes some very sensible points in his submission about the research on economic damage that is being claimed by many organisations\u2014not the people who create content, but the organisations that represent them, such as the corporates and the monopolies that David Parker was referring to. He said that some rights-holders produce reports stating that the economic damage is in the billions, assuming that every single download of a work is a sale that would have otherwise occurred. This ignores the fact that many downloaders try\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022a66ff8c79f0e4dfd92911cd9289855f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a66ff8c79f0e4dfd92911cd9289855f4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E There are a couple of points that I would like to respond to in the debate, and the first of those is the accusation, or the assertion, from Clare Curran that Government members\u2014and particularly me\u2014have been talking just hot air. Well, let us go through the dialogue that has occurred in the debate. In that member\u2019s earlier contribution she made a great deal of, and objected to, the fact that the Minister of Broadcasting has decided not to provide additional funding to Television New Zealand for the funding of TVNZ 7. I pointed out that the previous Government, in agreeing to fund that channel, had said that the funding was for a limited period, and that Television New Zealand would then be able to run it from its commercial revenues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI had a very simple challenge for the member, Clare Curran: if she objected to the Government not funding the channel, would she say whether Labour would have funded it? The members were absolutely silent. They could give the Committee absolutely no assurance, at all. My simple point to her was that it was the case of the pot calling the kettle black. If there is hot air, it is a party standing up in this Parliament saying that something is outrageous, is awful, and that the Government is not going to fund something, but then not being sure whether their party would fund it. I have to say to the member that that is hot air.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI can tell the member something else that was hot air, and that was the charter that the previous Government had within Television New Zealand. Everybody in the broadcasting sector has come to the conclusion that Labour\u2019s charter was nothing more than hot air. I say to that member, before she asserts such claims in the House, to consider that point further, and to give us some idea, despite all the rhetoric about supporting the creative industries, where her party was when the call was between the creative industries and the filming of The Hobbit in New Zealand. Well, I think Damien O\u2019Connor had the answer\u2014that is, that self-interested trade unionists went ahead of the national interest and the interest of New Zealand\u2019s creative industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI will also respond to the question from Jacinda Ardern about where in this bill the definition of file sharing is. It is quite simply set out in clause 7 of Part 1. That clause sets out quite clearly the definition of file sharing, and I further say that, yes, that definition does include an attachment that involves the sharing of files.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI was also very concerned that members opposite took offence at my enthusiasm for Dave Dobbyn, Bic Runga, Hayley Westenra, and other great New Zealand artists. I have to confess to being an enthusiast for all of those great New Zealand artists, and I am surprised that members opposite would be anything other than enthusiasts for those wonderful New Zealand musicians, whose creative rights and copyright interests this House should seriously consider protecting through copyright provisions, because those creative industries are so important to New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022a312de3bc9f24f46bcef57bffd079b81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a312de3bc9f24f46bcef57bffd079b81\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E We have just heard another lot of hot air. The Minister for the Environment is dissembling, shall we say. He does not understand the issues, he cannot enter into debate on the substantive issues in the bill, and he will not address the underlying major issues that I was attempting to address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI would like to continue talking to the Committee about the market failure, which is essentially the most important issue that this country and this Parliament should be addressing in terms of how we as a nation can create, encourage, foster, and support our creative content, which is essentially our cultural identity, and can ensure that it is available to our citizens and to the rest of the world. We should also enable and encourage new business models to occur that will enable people to use the Internet, which is our future, and enable them to share content legally. When my colleague on the Commerce Committee, Jonathan Young, earlier talked about the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a8dceaef61f42e0a863a78fa612e1cf\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: A good guy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228b38b7a691b4914b2c765b5055d1742\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: He is a good guy\u2014sometimes. He talked about the fact that the future is meeting us. I think that is what he said. I wrote \u201CNo! No!\u201D in my notebook because essentially the future is already happening, and this legislation is behind the eight ball.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAlthough Labour has supported it because we support the fundamental principle of copyright and acknowledge the importance of protecting the creative content that our people and our nation create\u2014it should be protected\u2014we also know from what is happening, from the behaviour out there in the world, that there is a fundamental market flaw. I will go back to David Farrar\u2019s submission. He said the reports about the damage being in the billions of dollars assume that \u201Cevery single download of a \u2018work\u2019 is a sale that would have otherwise occurred. This ignores the fact that many downloaders \u2018try before they buy\u2019, or in other words download to see if they like something, and if they do then purchase it legally. This is not to condone such acts,\u201D\u2014and every submitter who came before the select committee was not condoning these acts; they were describing what is happening in reality, what our children are doing, and what our friends are doing, and what, apparently, none of us are doing, but just about every person we know has family members who have done this\u2014\u201Cbut to point out that the assumptions over economic damage are unwarranted.\u201D He continued: \u201CIn Australasia, the most recent stats (from the Int Assn of the Phonographic Industry) show that music revenues are up 3.5% (physical sales down 2.4%, digital sales up 41.4% and performance rights up 8.6%) in 2009. Also APRA reported that in 2008/09 distributions to music creators increased by 10%\u201D. At the same time, and I hope the Minister is listening \u201CIn the movie industry, global ticket sales were up 7.6% \u2026 during the worst recession in 70 years.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe point of these statistics is to put the claims of the industry groups into proportion. Legitimate sales of content on the Internet are going up, more and more content is being sold, and the claims that illegal file-sharing are causing such damage are simply false. What has happened is that there is a market failure, and here I am, lecturing the National Government on market failures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Gareth Hughes to clause 7 be agreed to:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003Eto omit new sections 122O, 122P, and 122PA.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b2bc59e0f3a54c7895ebc8ddf55bce10\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001303\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 230 in the name of the Hon Simon Power to Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001304\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001305\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022caef46216c4d4821985baebed8675693\u0022\u003EPart 2  Related amendments to Parts 10 and 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001307\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 230 in the name of the Hon Simon Power to insert new clause 9A be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001308\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001309\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022356a6b9526c944919244300fd387fd52\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002203b69c5873134403869d2e16635a7160\u0022\u003EClause 2  Commencement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001312\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 230 in the name of the Hon Simon Power be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001313\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001314\u0022\u003EClause 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022571a4775d9144202be5a945056954f70\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001316\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001317\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002293196ad925ea458dbc7cbfc67808faa5\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00221c348c0f7ced4a6891ffebbb422054fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c348c0f7ced4a6891ffebbb422054fc\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Commerce: I move, That the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. The passing of this bill marks the conclusion of a long, complex, and controversial policy debate on how to address the widespread unauthorised sharing of copyright material via the Internet. I would like to take the opportunity to highlight the key features of the new enforcement and awareness-raising measures that are created by this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ECopyright owners will be able to work with Internet service providers to send a series of warning notices to persons who are engaged in file sharing that infringes copyright. If an Internet account holder ignores these warnings and continues to infringe, then copyright owners will be able to take a claim to the Copyright Tribunal for an award of up to $15,000. Just as important, at all stages persons who are accused of illegal file-sharing will have the opportunity to respond to any of the allegations that are made. The regime will be low cost and it will be efficient for all parties. There is also scope in this bill to bring into force an additional enforcement measure: the suspension of an Internet account by the District Court if the notice and Copyright Tribunal processes do not provide an effective deterrent against illegal file-sharing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThese new enforcement measures provide important legal protection for our creative industries and the incentives for them to continue to create music, film, software, and other works that New Zealand consumers enjoy. The new measures are fair and balanced and will do a great deal to educate Internet users about the rights of copyright owners and the issues relating to the sharing of copyright works via the Internet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EOn behalf of Simon Power, the Minister of Commerce, I thank everyone who has contributed to this bill and the policy process that led to it, including members of the Commerce Committee, parliamentary counsel, officials, members of the public, and industry representatives who have participated in the various submissions and the policy development process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIt is the Minister\u2019s hope that through the constructive discussions that have been had across the House and through a very thorough public consultation process, this bill will provide an enduring solution to a very difficult problem. At core, this bill is about a balance of private property rights and the freedoms that people enjoy on the Internet. It provides an appropriate balance. I am very pleased to commend this bill for a third reading in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022597132eaae4f4d62ad985ec9f5db72b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022597132eaae4f4d62ad985ec9f5db72b3\u0022\u003ECLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call on the third reading of the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill. Again, I place on the record my thanks to the officials for the hard work that they have done during the passage of this bill. It has been a very complex bill. I think my colleague Jacinda Ardern described it as fraught. I have found it to be quite exciting and challenging, because ultimately I think it is about the future. The underlying issues are about the future and about how we use the Internet. This bill has enabled us as a Parliament to start thinking about that matter and about addressing some of those issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI will also place on record my thanks to the Commerce Committee\u2014its chair, Lianne Dalziel, and the other members of the committee; all of them. It was an interesting and generally quite constructive experience to engage with the Minister of Commerce, Simon Power, on this issue and certainly to engage with the industry. To all of those people who are out there listening\u2014I know that many hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people are watching this parliamentary debate at the moment, because I know how deeply they feel about this issue\u2014I say that Labour supports this bill and that it supports it on the basis that there has been a negotiated solution, which is that although the suspension of Internet accounts remains in this bill, it is not enacted. That is the only basis on which we could support the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ELabour fundamentally believes that New Zealanders have the right to access the Internet and that all New Zealanders should be able to access the Internet. We are fundamentally opposed to Internet disconnection, and I cannot say it any more plainly than that. This compromise means that the suspension of Internet access as the ultimate penalty for repeat copyright infringement remains in the bill, but it cannot be enacted unless the Minister makes the decision to do so. The Minister making the decision would have to do so on the basis of there being a case put clearly by the rights-holders in order to prove the damage being done to the industry, and it is our opinion that such a case cannot be made in this current environment. As members know, Labour\u2019s preferred option was to completely omit account suspension, but National\u2019s position was intractable. Again, I will also put on record, particularly for the benefit of the Green members in this House, that Labour has been transparent and open about all of those matters right from the very beginning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EHaving addressed that matter, I will say a few things about the debate that we have had tonight, because the debate has gone in a number of interesting directions. A number of matters were not discussed, unfortunately, and one of them is the costs, although I must correct myself and say that one member opposite did raise that issue. I would have liked to go into that issue a little bit more, as it goes to the regulations and to how this bill will act in practice, including what those costs will entail and who will end up paying them in order to make this regime work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThere were a number of extremely interesting submissions on this matter and a number of estimations were made on the actual cost of producing a notice that would go to a person using the Internet who was alleged to have infringed. The cost of processing and sending a notice was estimated by one of the Internet service providers as, I think, somewhere between $1 and $28 per notice. This issue needs to be continued to be examined in terms of how many notices will actually be put out there, what the costs are, and who ends up paying for that. A number of other issues need to be addressed, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThis debate is a positive thing in some ways, but one of the things that this debate has done is to put firmly on the agenda the thorny and frightening issue of the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement. It has been described as a trade agreement, but it is fast becoming something much more than that and goes to the heart of issues of sovereignty. A number of speakers in the House tonight have talked about that. To quickly recap, I mentioned the fact that while this bill is passing through the House, New Zealand might have the ability to put in place its own copyright regime, only to be overtaken by something much, much bigger and much more frightening in terms of our intellectual property rights and our ability to manage our creative content. Essentially, that could be overtaken by this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ELabour has made statements on this matter. We have asked for more transparency and for a broadened dialogue, and we have asked the Government to make a commitment to that. So far tonight, despite repeated calls, there has been no sense of that commitment coming from the other side of the House. That is a great disappointment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI go back to the core parts of this bill. This bill will establish a regime that deters file sharing that infringes copyright. It is hoped by many in this Chamber and, indeed, I think by all of us across this Chamber, that the intent of this bill will largely be served by the educational role of the notice and notice regime, that the point at which an alleged infringer is taken to a tribunal will be minimal, and that, essentially, if people are infringing copyright and do not know that what they are doing is illegal, which is what much of the research shows, then they will cease that behaviour once they have received the first notice or the second notice. That is essentially what we hope will happen. But, as in every regime around the world that is dealing with these issues at the moment, there is still no real conclusive evidence on that. We are lucky, in a sense, in New Zealand that we are tonight putting through this House legislation that does not include that Draconian measure of suspension and termination, which has turned so many other environments in the international area on their heads and created a flashpoint for protest. As I mentioned in my second reading speech, in the UK there is a High Court case, a judicial review, happening as we speak on their legislation because it includes termination. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I say that Labour supports this bill. We support it with reservations. We believe there are some much bigger issues to deal with on this issue. We look forward to providing substantive policy in this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022 data-id=\u00227003736c202240eca133e7c28b016466\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227003736c202240eca133e7c28b016466\u0022\u003EPESETA SAM LOTU-IIGA (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E It is my privilege to speak on the third reading of the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill. This is an opportunity to thank the Minister, Simon Power, for his work in bringing about this bill, which cleans up some of the mess from the last Government. It is an opportunity to thank the Minister also for his negotiation skills. There was a lot of negotiation going on not just with other parties but with stakeholders, in order to get what I believe to be fair and reasonable legislation that addresses the needs of all stakeholders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI will talk on a couple of other points, but first I also thank the officials. We have brought a number of bills to the House through the Commerce Committee. Our relationship with the officials in getting legislation through our select committee\u2014but also through the House\u2014is good. We salute the officials and the work that they do. This piece of legislation certainly provided some pretty complex issues to work through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EI will touch on a couple of issues during this speech. One is about cost recovery. I mentioned in the Committee stage that I think it is a pretty big point. When the Internet service providers, or Internet protocol address providers, came to the committee they talked about the huge burden of cost for implementing such systems. Depending on the size of the Internet service providers, some said it would be in the millions of dollars and some said it would be in the hundreds of thousands. But in terms of coming to an actual cost per notice processing fee, they came up with a range of between $14 per notice and $56. Those notices far exceed the actual price of the transgression. We could not work out in this legislation an appropriate cost recovery, or fee-paying, system. That will be left to the regulations. In my opinion, it is not always ideal to leave these types of fee-paying systems to the regulations, but in this case I think the officials will work closely with the relevant stakeholders to find a system that is fair and reasonable for the parties. It may be relevant to note that regulations have been set up in the United Kingdom on a cost-sharing basis. That may be a model that our officials and certainly the stakeholders here may look to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003EThis legislation has been about balancing competing interests. We have all noted the importance of private property rights, the importance of intellectual property rights, and the investment by our industries\u2014especially our creative industries\u2014in making those products and services, and the importance of balancing that out with the freedoms of individuals to express themselves, and the freedom to certainly access the Internet. I think, on balance, this legislation has been put through in a really effective way. I think the legislation will be workable. But just as a warning, if you like, to the members opposite, I say this is still subject to evidence being produced that this system will work. It is not a guarantee, as one of my colleagues from across the aisle has said, and we will not support that, as a Labour member said prior to my speech. It will be about collecting the right amount of evidence and a decision being made in the future, in a review period that will be reasonable, in order to see whether the current regime is working and whether a suspension system will be put in place. But this is very good legislation; I think it balances out the competing interests, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022da326379906d4f1a841f3d74da52fb57\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da326379906d4f1a841f3d74da52fb57\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to note that the Hon Chris Finlayson is a Minister in the House now. His colleague the Hon Dr Nick Smith has been in the chair for most of the night on the Copyright (File Sharing Infringement) Amendment Bill, and unfortunately he has not addressed the issues we raised that still remain outstanding with regard to the effect that the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations will have on the length of copyright periods, and whether the section 92 provisions in the bill will be reopened. According to the New Zealand Herald on 31 March, from the content of leaked proposals from the United States Government in the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations, those things are on the table. The United States wants to lengthen the period of copyright so as to benefit the monopoly holders of those copyrights, and also to reopen the issue about what responsibility Internet providers should have in respect of breaches of copyright that are carried out through the services they provide. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe policy issues and the Labour position on the bill have been well outlined by Clare Curran, and I will not go into that again. But I do want to just place on record that I think it is unsatisfactory that the Minister in the chair, despite the fact that this issue has been the subject of prominent publicity, has not been able to give us any assurance that the Government is not going to bend on these issues. I believe in copyright, but I do not believe in open-ended copyright periods. I do not believe in unrestrained monopoly rights in any area. If one develops something that is patented, which actually needs novelty and a lot of other steps to be proven before one can get a patent, one\u2019s patent does not last for 50 years beyond the life of the person who made the invention. It does not last as long as that. A patent right is a lot shorter in terms of years than we already have for copyright, which currently goes for 50 years beyond the life of the creator. The United States wants to extend that to 70 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe theory that lies behind copyright is not advanced by extending the copyright period. The theory that lies behind copyright is that there has to be some fair reward available to the person who creates creative content or content suitable for copyright in designs and things. It is important to allow that through copyright. Otherwise people will be unable to afford to produce the content that makes us richer as a society\u2014and I do not just mean \u201Cricher\u201D in a money sense; I mean culturally richer because we have the result of creative endeavour. So that is the theory behind it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhen copyright was invented, it was, I think, originally a law invention in the United Kingdom. Until then, people could write a book and the next day someone could rip it off. So someone could rip off the book that someone else might have laboured 10 years to produce; the person who spent the 10 years writing the book could be left penniless, and the person who ripped it off and then printed it could make a fortune, and that was wrong. Apart from anything else, if that had persisted, there would not be many people writing books, and we would all be the poorer for it. That is essentially why we have copyright, but there does not have to be copyright for the life of the author plus 50 years after their death in order to encourage people to write books. It has already gone a lot further than that, if we think about it. In practice, an author does not write a book because someone else will get a royalty potentially 50 years after he or she has died. That is not real. And the fact that the Americans want to extend that to 70 years after the death of the author is patently about money. It is not about creativity; it is actually about extending the monopoly rights of the copyright holder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244b08003f92d42dcadc56734cac5a009\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not a monopoly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d39bda388fe24dfc9fc84b4deeda265d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is a monopoly. The copyright is a monopoly. Did I hear that member say it is not a monopoly? That is completely wrong. That is what people get when they get copyright. They get the right to control who copies it. The copyright holder is the only person who has the right to legally copy it. That person has monopoly rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d85461a42ffc40049a1c879eb2d5f85a\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: Personal property right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298576cff406f4184b49f23fc6e8729fe\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is a monopoly personal property right. It is an intangible right, as one member put it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022646f239d42cd4db09cb2df91d6bf5b60\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: No one is arguing that it\u2019s a property right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd74edfb42c5410ca9b8536e2531bcdf\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272e8666d0e2f48c19f6895818b8fcca6\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what the Minister said. He agreed with you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291d652c245444ca4b8c83fb26194702f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Did he agree that the term should not extended beyond 50 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281f0033d9c874381bb0af5558a795b69\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: No, he said that it was a property right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297a8b11653a941b281471362a1f75cb3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no one is disagreeing that it is a property right. We are just saying there should be limits to that copyright. There should be limits, and the Minister would not go on record and say it ought not to be extended beyond the existing term of 50 years after the death of the person who created the material that is subject to copyright. This is just so typical of this Government, which really rules for the big end of town. Those at the big end of town are the ones who benefit from extended use of those monopoly rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219bcf2ff-a193-4361-9072-813a4e36683c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bbd1b2418004d52ac23ca25b05b740e\u0022\u003EPeseta Sam Lotu-Iiga\u003C/span\u003E: And employees of those corporations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fdffdddec6348cdb73eccfd151415e8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I see. So there is going to be some trickle-down theory. I have no problem with people making money. I actually like businesses to succeed and make money. I like making money myself. It is nothing to be ashamed of. But we ought not to confer monopoly rights that give people a privileged right to extract a monopoly rent for an unfairly long term. That is why I made reference at the start of this to the theory that lies behind copyright. We should have recourse to that underlying theory, which is to encourage creativity and creative content to be formed for the benefit of society. When there are lengths of copyright that are longer than is necessary to achieve that, people should not kid themselves that they are in pursuit of the theory that lies behind copyright. They are not. They are actually agreeing to longer terms because it is in the monopolistic interests of those people who have that pre-eminent position as a consequence of their copyright and who want it to go on longer. That is all that is happening. So the Government ought to be clear and say it will not agree to that provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bca5317e8f924ab08c2111ec93197fe5\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: So we\u2019re going to socialise creative talent now, are we?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c87cce3fb97411eb2527357d0abcdf8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: That member does not get it. He just does not get it, just like Dr Nick Smith did not get it. But I do trust that Chris Finlayson will get it, and that is why I am raising the issue. I hope that he keeps an eye on this in the negotiations in the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Otherwise, we will make New Zealand poorer as a country overall, not richer. We will get poorer as a country overall, not richer, by agreeing to those sorts of unwise terms. We do not agree to ridiculously long lengths of patents. Why should we have overly long periods of copyright protection? That is all I am asking, and we still have not had an answer from the Government on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe other issue is that it would be a nonsense to go through all of this again and reopen the section 92 debate. I do not say Internet providers ought to be free of all responsibility in respect of protecting other people\u2019s property rights. That is a cop-out. Having said that, I say there are technological difficulties that cannot be ignored. It is no use having laws that are patently unenforceable, which was one of the problems with the underlying law before its reform. I do not approve of laws that sit there theoretically on the statute book but cannot in practice be enforced, because that brings the law into disrepute too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI support this bill, but I am concerned that this Government is too permissive of monopoly excess. We hear people claiming that this is private enterprise. Monopolies are not an example of free enterprise; free enterprise relies upon\u2014in its proper form, in my view\u2014competitive markets. These are exceptions to competitive markets. The Government is too ready to agree to uncompetitive markets in New Zealand. National has done it before in respect of lines companies, and we still have it in respect of power companies, where we have proven that there is monopoly excess gouging of consumers through excessive monopoly-based power being used to excessively price electricity in New Zealand. We have seen it before in New Zealand in respect of telecommunications. Currently, legislation is going through this House that will create monopoly rights in respect of some incumbents in the broadband arena, which has been widely opposed by most broadband market participants as being anti-competitive, yet is still being pursued by this Government. So in New Zealand, people are right to be suspicious of this Government when it comes to its control of monopoly excess, and I certainly am. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u002241f857fd14bc4ef8b04719fdbc8766b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241f857fd14bc4ef8b04719fdbc8766b9\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Deputy Speaker. It has been an absolute privilege to speak tonight, even though my voice is fading. I acknowledge all the robust debate we have had. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ESo we have the Internet, eh? It is not like Skynet, but it is transforming our world in such amazing ways, and I have seen that tonight in the debate online. It is not just a \u201Cnice to have\u201D, in the parlance of the Government. It is an essential utility. It is an essential part of our modern world. It is the way the Government interacts with its public. It is the way our democracy is increasingly having its debates. It is where Government departments interact with the public on things like tax. It is where we entertain ourselves. It is where some of us meet our partners. It is where we literally live our lives. It is such an important part of our world. I also think that Internet access is a fundamental right in our modern world. One survey of 28,000 people in 26 countries found 80 percent thought that Internet access was a fundamental right, and I support that worldview. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EEssentially, the debate we have had tonight is the legacy of a decade or more of a lack of actual foresight by this Parliament and previous Parliaments. We should have been having these discussions 10 years ago. A whole generation\u2014my generation\u2014has grown up not knowing anything else but copyright infringing. All my generation has grown up with are those ridiculous ads we see when we load a VHS. Those ads say that stealing a video is like stealing a car or robbing a purse. It is nothing like that. Those exaggerations in the ads have done no good service to the genuine debate on copyright in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIt is good that Parliament is discussing Internet issues and copyright in general. The Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill is better than before, and I have taken every opportunity I can to point that out. It is so much better than section 92A of the Copyright Act. The Commerce Committee did some fantastic work in cleaning it up, but, ultimately, we need to have a fundamental rethink on copyright law. We have gone about it in the wrong direction in this Parliament. This bill has come from the position that we need to strengthen copyright. That is the basic premise this bill is built on, not a genuine reflection of what copyright is in 2011, what it will be in the coming decade, or what we need to do to make our copyright law better, more robust, and reflect the real world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIt is disappointing that this debate is happening under urgency. I was looking forward to contacting members in the Chamber and putting forward another Supplementary Order Paper to amend the parody and satire law clauses of our copyright legislation. At the moment, websites are being taken down in New Zealand because we do not have an ability for artists, creatives, political satirists, or anyone to use parody or satire as a legal defence as they can in Australia. I recommend that members check out the Hitler downfall parody videos that are online, particularly the one about Internet take-downs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIt is a pity we are taking this legislation through all stages tonight. I acknowledge the listeners and thank them for their tweets, humour, and ideas, but most of all for engaging with politics. Too often there is a disenfranchised chunk of our country. It is great that they have definitely been watching us in their hundreds\u2014maybe thousands\u2014today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe theme I have picked up from those tweets, blog posts, and humorous pictures is the scepticism of us as elected officials and the scepticism of Parliament as a legislature when it comes to copyright law. Section 92A really did scare a huge chunk of our most informed population, and the lack of responsibility in the House has been disappointing. It is all right to say we mucked up section 92A. It was bad law. It was rushed through. The process at the end\u2014when massive amendments were rammed through\u2014was terrible. It is all right for both Labour and National members to take responsibility and sometimes say that they mucked up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIt is also not surprising that there is scepticism from the public for the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations. New Zealanders are legitimately concerned that we are literally negotiating away our rights as a country in order to get free-trade deals, and when it comes to our own independent ability to make law on things like copyright. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the compromise that was reached at the Commerce Committee. I prefer that we are seeing this position in the Chamber. I would still like to see the facts about what thresholds will enact it, what the evidence will be, what the timelines will be, and whether there will be public consultation. I have not seen the facts, and I do not think the public have seen them. It is good we are debating the bill, but I do not think we should have a provision in the bill for account suspension. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is fundamentally opposed to that provision, so is Labour. Labour members say they are fundamentally opposed to the provision, but they are quite happy to devolve responsibility to the Minister. They are washing their hands of the responsibility. People want to vote and people want to see principles in the Parliament. They want to see what a party\u2019s bottom lines are, and when members say they are fundamentally opposed to something but will vote for it, people start to question that view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EOur position on the opposition to account suspension is not a Green position; it is our community\u2019s position. I have seen comments from the right of the political spectrum all the way through to the left. It is not moralistic or a case of the Green Party taking a higher ground; we are taking the public ground\u2014what the public of New Zealand want. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThis law is bad precedent. The Minister, Nick Smith, is wrong. We do not take away someone\u2019s bike or car if they use their bike or car to commit a robbery. We do not take away someone\u2019s telephone if they use it as part of a criminal act. It is just not like that. We have seen no evidence that account suspension will be effective. We have seen no compelling arguments as to why we need to do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI misquoted earlier. The 70 percent figure, those who would reduce their file infringing after receiving an education notice, was not a New Zealand figure. I understand that it was a Canadian figure. We just do not have that evidence in New Zealand. Ultimately, we are bringing in a law that is disproportionate, will not work, and takes away people\u2019s rights to an Internet account when the Minister decides to enact it through an Order in Council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Greens have not been irresponsible. We do support notices and fines, and we do think they are an appropriate deterrent. It is somewhat ironic that Jami-Lee Ross, our newest member, who gave a fantastic tea-party speech all about the role of the big State, is voting for a law where the State will come in if the Minister enacts it and take away\u2014pull the cable out\u2014someone\u2019s Internet account. That is \u201Cbig State\u201D if ever I saw it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThere is a chance we could have got a better bill. There is no reason why account suspension had to be in the bill. Minister Power is a reasonable Minister. I am sure he would have liked to have cross-party support in the Chamber, but we will never know, because Labour members say: \u201CTrust us. We negotiate as hard as we can. Trust us.\u201D But can we trust Labour? Ultimately, like the tweeters, I have a great degree of scepticism of the Government, and I believe that it will bring in account suspension as soon as it can. Who knows how long the Government will look at the evidence for, what type of evidence it will be, and who will be providing it? Serious questions are left up in the air. Essentially, the section 92A debate will keep on flowing over the next years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn summary, I acknowledge the good changes made at the select committee\u2014peer-to-peer software, the changing definitions of Internet service providers, and the fact that, on the whole, lawyers will not be involved in the tribunal. I acknowledge all the stuff we did not get a chance to talk about tonight because, rightfully, we focused on the account suspension issue. It would be good to discuss what was left in the regulations. It would be good to discuss mobile termination and the big decisions the select committee made on that issue. To wrap up, I say that I am proud to be standing on my principles in this Chamber and not voting for a law that has such a disproportionate, unfair, unworkable, and wrong clause in it about account suspension. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u002288f46adb82404b6491967ceef6442fa6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288f46adb82404b6491967ceef6442fa6\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to continue the discussion and debate on the third reading of the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill. The issue is very interesting. Essentially, three parties are involved\u2014copyright holders, those people who utilise what they produce, and, in the middle, Internet service providers, who are the medium through which the files are shared. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIn July 2008, 20 percent of Europeans used file-sharing networks to obtain music, and 10 percent used paid-for digital music services such as iTunes. So we can understand why musicians are particularly concerned about, and interested in, the passage of the bill. If we look at those figures in Europe we see that two out of three downloads were through file sharing, whereby there was no payment to, or acknowledgment of, the owner of the music. I remember Moana Mackey making a comment during the Committee stage that I found very interesting. Her comment was about working to find a compromise between the personal property rights of a creative person who constructs a piece of art, writes some music, or makes a movie and the rights of people who own a computer to access information and content on the Internet. We should be looking for a compromise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThere is a very logical compromise, which I am sure everybody in the House supports and which the bill is about, and it is called a financial transaction. If somebody wants to download something from the Internet that belongs to somebody else, if they engage in a financial transaction\u2014value for value\u2014then the person who downloads the song and listens to it or watches the movie receives value from it and they reciprocate value back to the producer, whether the producer is a company or an individual. That transaction is broadly acknowledged as being both honest and fair. The bill is about balancing the rights of people by doing what is honest and fair by people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EOur Government wants to see the economic and financial growth not only of industry, manufacturers, and exporters but also of our creative people, entrepreneurs, designers, and innovators. We want to see those people acknowledged and advantaged by their skill. We want the nation to be aspirational. If we allow people to rip off others, take away what they have created, and give back no value, then we are undermining the aspirations of this country and undermining those people who use their intellect, creativity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4a9ef9a2bb24603b804d3e2e6d44ab7\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member, but the time has come for me to leave the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 12 midnight to 9 a.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201104128020b1eae4c74b2fb9050b3b9632f367001380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002218087ac20a524e36be8d33d0c0378663\u0022\u003ETuesday, 12 April 2011\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022822cf8f900a1423c8adf89e36d6d6b49\u0022\u003E(continued on Thursday, 14 April 2011)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229677bf4059c64aa295bf6c78463159b7\u0022\u003ECopyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227113c61adc104642bc8f620bc1a7c14b\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d7f47d31fce343a1b126b8b40e554f2a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 111\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002299229ffabfda4a4ba60b3dd76559d63e\u0022\u003ECanterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221ade0e966f7e4042b549add68ffb8297\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca7c841a80e3499fa24a74ec84163c4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca7c841a80e3499fa24a74ec84163c4c\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill be now read a second time. The House will today deal with this bill through its remaining stages, and as we begin the second reading it is after a very short select committee process at which some evidence was able to be gathered from people who have an interest in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe reality is that some 400,000 people have an interest in this bill, those people being the residents of the province of Canterbury. In particular, there are those residents who are part of the very broken up areas of Christchurch, where life at the moment is not particularly comfortable, nor is it easy. There are many others in the city who have uncertain employment futures as the devastation has wrecked workplaces and severely disrupted business activity in many cases. I hasten to add that a great deal of the city is still functioning and a large number of people are still very much gainfully employed, and one of the ways in which other parts of the country and indeed our offshore neighbours can help us is to continue trading with businesses that are operating in Christchurch, and I would definitely encourage them to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThis bill is designed to create an opportunity to move the recovery along as quickly as possible. Essentially, it recognises the fact that if we have widespread community engagement and a whole lot of activity about how things get put back together, unless there is a decision-making body that is able to deliver on some of those decisions and some of those desires, then not much is achieved. There will be debate about what international literature tell us about these events and the recovery from them, but in my estimate the thing that comes through most clearly is that too often a discussion held in a room with a lot of people putting forward ideas is confused for action. I sincerely think that having a structure that allows rapid decision-making that can give effect to decisions that the community is on board with is exactly what is required here. That does require the taking of powers that are somewhat extraordinary. But I think that anybody living in a broken house somewhere in Christchurch, dealing with a chemical toilet day by day, uncertain about their water supply, uncertain about their winter heating, uncertain about the condition of the roads outside, and uncertain about what a big rain will mean for them will care little for the academic exercise about how powers might be accumulated in order to deliver them a successful result. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThis bill is an enabling framework setting out a range of powers that may need to be exercised during the recovery process. It does have significant checks and balances on the use of those powers, and the most clear check and balance is the requirement that all of those powers must be exercised in the recovery process and cannot step outside of that. What we have recognised with this bill is the need to restore social, economic, cultural, and environmental well-being in Greater Christchurch. Further, it recognises a need to facilitate, coordinate, and direct the planning, rebuilding, and recovery of Greater Christchurch, and it places importance on community participation in the planning of the recovery while balancing that against the need for timely, focused, and coordinated recovery processes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI want to address some of the concerns that have been raised about the suggestion that we should not have a Government department running this but instead should create some sort of a new entity that sits at arm\u2019s length from the Government. That is an interesting concept, but there is no more direct accountability than a Minister sitting on top of a Government department whereby there can be daily questions in the House, select committees can require people to come before them, etc. I say that the laughing and joking going on over on the other side of the House shows scant regard for the lives that so many people are living in difficult circumstances at the present time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261d9dbf6d3dc4e3695e682d60efafafa\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would like your assistance. To date the House has dealt with this bill in a pretty non-partisan way, and that is how we continue, but we find those comments deeply offensive. One hundred and sixty-six people died, and for that Minister to accuse us of being heartless and treating this in a frivolous way is outrageous and I take offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b34594f40384b7db3f22bb349cd9acb\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I think you are adding some words to what the member said. But I think there was a bit of a reaction going on, and I just advise the House that the issue before us is somewhat sombre. I think the will of the House is to progress it, and I invite members to show a bit of courtesy across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222a6aa97d72d450d8371bb6adf25374a\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I take your recommendations on board, Mr Assistant Speaker. Actually, 181 people are likely to have lost their lives in this event, and no one is losing sight of that. I will leave it to the public to judge exactly how members of this House are dealing with such an important issue. What it does eventually lead to, though, is the question about whether we should go slowly with all this or whether we should move at some pace. The problem is that pace still takes a long time. The decisions that need to be made here are very, very dependent upon research about the condition of the land in Christchurch, and upon getting enough information to deal with individuals who have those broken properties so that they can be given some choices about what their future is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EQuite apart from that, in the social infrastructure, we have schools at the moment showing extraordinary capability to get on with the job by making their facilities available to other schools in the near vicinity. Some schools operate in the morning, with another school coming into those premises and operating in the afternoon. One hospital in the city has a major emergency department that is partly damaged but is able to deal with the problem. There are ongoing issues about the infrastructure around the health facilities. One could go on and on about what needs to be done to get Canterbury and Greater Christchurch back into good shape. All of those things will require a series of recovery plans, and, quite patently obviously, there will need to be discussion about how those plans are delivered with those local communities and those affected individuals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EOver the top of that, an overarching strategy, which will be gazetted and will be publicly stated, needs to formed. I think one of the most encouraging things I have seen in the last few days is the way in which the district councils have said that they accept there have to be those overarching powers, and they have committed to working with the Government agency, the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority, on the recovery of Canterbury. That is a major step in my opinion, and I expect that that sort of level of cooperation and collaboration will develop and become stronger over the months ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI also compliment Ng\u0101i Tahu on the way in which they, as not only major property owners but very big leaders in the community of a large number of people, have come to the party right from the moment the earthquake struck\u2014delivering services to people, particularly in the east of Christchurch, regardless of their particular affiliation, and, in the longer sense, committing to being part of this recovery and working alongside the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority. These are very, very encouraging signs, because, in the end, if all of the rancour that might be part of all of this is focused on how something is to be done for people, that is great, but if it is an argument about whether it should be done for people, then I think that will see us all fail quite considerably. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EOver the coming weeks more information will be collated about the land information in Christchurch, and that will inform many of the decisions that are made going forward. There are no powers in this bill that are not focused on good results for people who have had their lives disrupted in Christchurch. Each of those powers is subject to considerable check. I look forward to the Committee stage that we will embark on very shortly, and I signal at this point that the Government has received recommendations from a number of submitters over the last 24 hours, and has made every effort to accommodate recommendations about amendments where they add to the structure of the bill and make it more workable. I thank those people who went out of their way in a short time to deliver on it. I look forward to the rest of the morning, and to the afternoon and evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002230a262df9f22416983fe99966c1f5038\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230a262df9f22416983fe99966c1f5038\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Let me say from the outset, despite the comments earlier on from Mr Brownlee, I suspect there is not one member of Parliament in the House who does not want to get this right\u2014we all want to get this right. We all want as fast a pace of recovery as humanly possible. No one, in putting up amendments to the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill, whether they be from the political party of which I am a part or yesterday\u2019s submitters, has put up amendments with the motivation to slow things down for our community. Mr Brownlee has an obsession with the framework that is, I think, to use his words, \u201Cpace versus taking time\u201D. I think Mr Brownlee\u2019s definition of the framework is that if we do not do it his way, the people of Canterbury will be delayed. I agree with him when he says people sitting in their houses are digging their lives out of their back lawn, without a chemical toilet, without the basic provisions of life, having been dislocated from their basic routines, and having lost their jobs, their homes, their livelihoods, and, tragically, family members and/or friends. The one thing they want, to use the phrase that Mr Brownlee has made a brand of, is for us to \u201Cget on with it\u201D. I agree with Mr Brownlee in that respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut the other thing the people of Canterbury want\u2014and they do not want this legislation and the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority, which is already in place through Order in Council, so, really, one could argue that this is rubber-stamping what Mr Brownlee wants, because he has already told us he has the numbers\u2014is for us to get this right. If we do not get this legislation right, and if the authority that flow from it stuffs it up, then who will be the losers? I doubt whether they will be many people on either side of this House, who sit here with jobs, and with houses. I acknowledge that colleagues on both sides have some munted properties, but we can survive because we have a thing called income, we have means, we have mobility, and we have other resources. The big loser will not be Mr Brownlee\u2014although maybe he will be in a political sense\u2014it will be the people of Canterbury. I put this to Mr Brownlee: on many occasions through this process he has broken many commitments he has given to us about acting in a non-partisan way. I say that not out of self-interest; I say that we came to the table before this legislation was put up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ac658c4b9ea49afac4eca692bbf8304\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No politics in this!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205c8422174d44facb06fe9e318d35e20\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, see, there he goes; he just said there were no politics in this. That is a telling comment from Mr Brownlee, and I will tell members why: Mr Brownlee has defined playing politics as anybody who disagrees, or puts up an alternative idea. Mr Brownlee labels those people as playing politics. Any member of the community who says \u201CMaybe there is a better way.\u201D, \u201CCan we be helpful?\u201D, or \u201CMaybe Mr Brownlee should do his job slightly better.\u201D, he labels as either impeding progress or playing politics. Well, shame on that member\u2014shame on that member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say that the people of Canterbury want to get this right. Here is the risk: we have had commitments from him from the start of the formation of the authority. Mr Brownlee asked to see me privately. He wrote on a piece of paper\u2014and I still have it\u2014a short schematic of his embryonic thoughts in respect of the authority. He said he wanted consultation with Labour, which is consultation with the communities we represent, actually, because it not about us and what we think; it is about the feedback we get from our communities and our constituents, and that is why we are entitled to the Queen\u2019s shilling\u2014that is, our wages. He looked me in the eye and said \u201CWe want you on board. This is real consultation; this is non-partisanship.\u201D So we agreed. We asked two things: we asked for input and we asked for advice papers, and he agreed to it. He set up two meetings, with Mr Goff and me, and he cancelled both. We rang Wayne Eagleson, the chief of staff of the Prime Minister, in the week the legislation was going through a Cabinet committee. We were told that it would not be dealt with at the Cabinet committee\u2014not at all. We got a phone call on the Friday of that week, to be told by Mr Brownlee that it was a fait accompli. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI do not know about playing politics, but I used a word about three times in respect of Mr Brownlee at that meeting that I will not use here; I am sure it could be couched in the definition of breaking one\u2019s commitments or word. That is the nature of the process. Then we bounced forward to the Local Government and Environment Committee. Submitters had 4 hours and 40 minutes to provide evidence to that committee\u20144 hours and 40 minutes. Most of the submitters had not been consulted at all, before they received the bill via the Internet\u2014they plucked the bill off the parliamentary website after I asked the Clerk to put it on, because the Minister had not provided it. They had 4 hours and 40 minutes; they had less than 24 hours to prepare submissions. The Law Society, which, as members will know, is asked very regularly, if not all the time in respect of legislation, to participate in the process and to actively submit in the process, appeared before us. Its members got the bill at 4 o\u2019clock the day before. They had less than 24 hours to put in a submission. The Legislative Advisory Committee, the Government\u2019s own agency made up of eminent legal minds, got the bill for the first time, it told the select committee, at around the same time as it was laid on the Table of this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe people of Canterbury are going to say \u201CSo what? As Mr Brownlee says, we want our lives back. Why are you guys worried about all the technical detail? Get on with it.\u201D But here is the problem I come back to again: Mr Brownlee has shown scant regard in terms of listening to experts and expert evidence, and giving people one extra day, perhaps. The only reason we had a select committee hearing was that last Thursday Labour members in a meeting with Mr Brownlee demanded one. We also asked Mr Brownlee, if he was going to agree to it, to please flag it on the Friday\u2014before this week\u2014so that submitters would have the weekend to put their arguments together and do a robust job. Well, he messed about, and then he announced it less than 24 hours before. Councils were late to the meeting because they had been told about it only the night before. The Christchurch City Council was given a bill a week before the select committee\u2014a draft; 6.4. The city council\u2019s solicitor was given it and told they were not allowed to show it to any city councillor. So we had this farce of the deputy mayor turning up and giving a submission, and having to admit, through the city council\u2019s solicitor, that no one on the council had even seen the bill, because the Government had told them they were not allowed to be shown it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261da0877e0f64f7b80dcb4fc8b6a2a27\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d6d93ced3a14a0aac7eaec40ba85f62\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Brownlee calls the solicitor of the city council a liar\u2014that is what he says; he says what the solicitor said was rubbish. I ask Mr Brownlee to say that outside the House and allow the city councillor solicitor to action that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMoving on, the point I make is this: we want to get this right, but Mr Brownlee holds a view that he holds a monopoly on all knowledge on this. OK, National has the numbers, we are adults\u2014we accept it. But here is the point I make to Mr Brownlee: he holds the pen as the earthquake tsar. He declines to agree with me when he says he has wartime powers. Let me say to Mr Brownlee that if he looks at the history of it, he will see that he and his Government have to return to this House to seek the permission of this House to amend only a very small number of Acts. He can do basically what he likes, and, as Philip Joseph said, clause 73(2) is an ouster clause, which means that Mr Brownlee, or any of his Ministers, cannot be challenged by any court in the land for a decision they make in respect of this earthquake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ESo I say to Mr Brownlee that he has chosen his course of action. He has shown throughout this that he would not listen to the business community of Christchurch. That is why they mounted the barricades and took up placards. I have never seen that in Christchurch. He has taken the view that he will not listen to Opposition members, and he has broken nearly every commitment he had made for a bipartisan approach. He made the commitment privately; he never made it publicly but he knows he has broken it. I have never seen a politician sit across a table from me and say he or she will do one thing and blatantly break that commitment some days later. Normally, certain politicians of that ilk use more diplomatic or surreptitious means to lie\u2014but I will not use that word in respect of Mr Brownlee. But Mr Brownlee said \u201CIt is my way or the highway.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI tell Mr Brownlee that the people of Canterbury will support this legislation. The people of Canterbury will wait, and the acid test of this legislation, and of the stewardship of that man over there, and John Key\u2014who promised that \u201Cno one in Canterbury will be worse off\u201D\u2014will be whether this legislation fails. We have a paper trail a mile long of the assistance we have tried to render privately and publicly. We have a paper trail a mile long of the assistance members of the public and eminent organisations have attempted to render privately and publicly. We will know what the legislation will look like when the amendments come up, the amendments that Mr Brownlee will furnish to us, as usual, minutes\u2014he said to me at 11 o\u2019clock\u2014before this second reading debate concludes and the Committee stage begins, and the people of Canterbury will judge whether this legislation will fail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut Labour will try to make it work, and we will work with Mr Brownlee regardless of the concerns we have. Our concern, like his, is to make this thing work. But if it comes a gutzer, I say to Mr Brownlee that it will be visited on his head, on the heads of his Canterbury colleagues, and on the heads of his Prime Minister and Government\u2014and on their heads alone. The people of Canterbury will judge that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u0022074d486ee4944a20b2005dcd5e5fa592\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022074d486ee4944a20b2005dcd5e5fa592\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National\u2014West Coast - Tasman):\u003C/span\u003E I am always interested in the contrast between select committee work and speeches in the House; often one wonders where the marriage is between the two events. We are talking about something that is extremely important to all of us in this House: the rebuilding of Christchurch. I am sure that that is just as important to people in any position in the House. It is the most important thing we can do. We are not rebuilding just the body of Christchurch, as we were told yesterday by some of the submitters, but also the mind, the heart, and the spirit of the Canterbury people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EIt was a moving occasion to be part of the parliamentary committee that was established to hear the evidence given. This issue reaches across the South Island to have an effect on the West Coast. It reaches down to have an effect in Southland and Otago, and up in Marlborough\u2014everywhere. Christchurch, our second-largest city, is in desperate need of assistance. The spirit of the people, though, is strong, very strong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EWhen the second earthquake occurred I remember getting calls from people overseas who wanted to know what was going on. Some interviewers from the UK said: \u201CWe understand it was chaos.\u201D I said: \u201CWell, it was a big shake\u2014about 45 seconds.\u201D But they asked: \u201CHow long did the chaos last?\u201D. So I said: \u201CWell, about 45 seconds.\u201D They said \u201CNo, no, but what about the chaos in the city?\u201D. I said: \u201CWell, New Zealanders don\u2019t do chaos very well. They are not very good at chaos. They get organised quickly.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EAfter spending an hour in Christchurch yesterday, and visiting the places that have been really badly affected, one can see the organisation, the spirit, and the strength of the community coming through. Then we had the opportunity to meet people who wished to give us evidence and contribute to the bill. Collaboration is very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThere has been criticism\u2014and I acknowledge the criticism\u2014that the time lines were tight. We have just heard a fairly spirited and political speech from Mr Cosgrove, who was a member of the committee, and I thank all members of the committee for the way they applied themselves. We were relatively free of partisan comment and activity. Everybody applied themselves heavily to the task, and I thank the members from all sides of the House for the way they did their work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe evidence we received was, we agreed, of a remarkably high quality. I think that one of the crucial points that need to be considered in this whole business is that delay does not equate to quality of product. So the suggestion that we should have longer, that we should have a further week, and all that sort of thing, would not, I think, alter the strength of the submissions we received very much at all, because the quality was high\u2014the quality was high, and that was agreed. We had a short, tight timetable, and the committee worked well to meet the requirements of that. The evidence was strong, and I understand that it is already being included in possible changes to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EWe heard from people in Wellington, and we heard from people in Christchurch. They had a singular quality that came through all the time: sincerity of approach. They were most sincere that they wanted to do the best they could. Even amidst the rhetoric that we heard earlier from a very experienced speaker, that message still came through. We all want to do the best we can. For me, it is very important that we concentrate on that, because this is not just the main Government priority for this year; I suggest that it is the main parliamentary priority for this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EWhen we debated the reform of the Resource Management Act last year, we saw the consequences, the difficulties, and the delays that can occur with legislation that has passed its use-by date. We have seen that normal features of legislation can be disruptive and delaying in making the sorts of changes and decisions that have to be made in order to get Christchurch on the move. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EWe see the contrast, too, and I have to say that although I have never met the gentleman, I hold him in very, very high regard. I am talking about Roger Sutton, the chief executive of Orion. He is the man who got the power back on. He used phrases such as: \u201CIt ain\u2019t pretty but it works.\u201D, in respect of overhead cables instead of underground ones. I would not suggest, at all, that he manipulated any permit arrangements or anything, but fast-tracking certainly got the work done, and this bill is designed to use the Roger Sutton approach to getting things done\u2014which is so much a New Zealand concept that it needs the opportunity to be expressed within the community in Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EWe have to enable community participation in planning the recovery of affected communities, without impeding them, in a focused, timely, and expedited manner. I had an enjoyable time in having brief conversations with people who came to the committee not just to make submissions but to wish us well with the work we were doing, to thank us for coming, and to express their concentrated appreciation of what was happening. Christchurch is strong, Christchurch is well, and Christchurch needs the assistance of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EI appeal to members on all sides of the House to perhaps suppress the understandable rhetoric they feel\u2014because this is very personal and emotional for the people who have representation down there. Let us concentrate on the real need, let us concentrate on Christchurch\u2019s need, and let us concentrate on getting this bill in place. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002288a97223aa2749a5b77ba7e7b7347ade\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288a97223aa2749a5b77ba7e7b7347ade\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to take a call on the second reading of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill. I will begin by acknowledging the member who has just resumed his seat. I have spent a bit of time in Mr Auchinvole\u2019s company over the last 3 or 4 days, and I have a great deal of admiration for the way he chaired the Local Government and Environment Committee. There was a lot of tension around the debate, and a lot of frustrated submitters\u2014a lot of frustrated members of the committee, actually\u2014dealing with an issue that is really important to everyone who was on the select committee. Mr Auchinvole treated us all in a manner that was respectful, and I think he engendered better behaviour as a result of his chairing; I want to acknowledge that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EMembers from our side of the House are totally committed to the Canterbury recovery, but what the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery has failed to understand, and, annoyingly, despite the best efforts of many submitters, what the majority of members on the other side of the select committee table have failed to grasp, is that recovery is about more than speedy demolition, removal of rubble, the rebuild of infrastructure, and the rebuild of buildings. Recovery is about ensuring that the residents of Canterbury are part of the vision of the future of their area\u2014of their suburb, their community, their city, their region\u2014and every one of us needs to have a strong voice in that recovery. It is about ensuring that as we look at what is going to happen to streets, suburbs, and shopping centres, we take this opportunity to ensure that the current inequities we have in our city are addressed, and that we give everyone a better place to stand as we recover from these earthquakes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIn my view the Minister does not understand that fundamental difference. The National members of the Local Government and Environment Committee did not appear to understand the difference between rebuild and recovery, and therefore this is a tragic, wasted opportunity not just to get it right but to get it better. I hope that as we progress this legislation today, as we go through the Committee stage, the Minister will look seriously at the amendments we produce. I hope he will do as he said he would do when he gave us a commitment and look seriously at the recovery aspects of the submitters\u2019 proposals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis has been a very unusual process, but, as members have already stated, these are very unusual times. There is no normal any more in Canterbury. We talk about a new normal, and I guess the select committee process was a good example of how to do things quite differently. It is quite unusual that we did not have a bill referred to us. We did not have advisers, which is very unusual. So when submitters appeared before us we had no officials who could explain why they had put X, Y, and Z in the legislation to answer the questions from the submitters. We did not have any of the usual technical advice available to the select committee, and we have gone through this process frustrated as a result. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery came to the select committee and gave us over an hour of his time. He was able to answer some of the questions. He assured us when he left that he would get back to us with other answers, and I am sure he will. I can see that the Minister is nodding. I am very pleased about that, because we are not sure which of the unanswered questions will be addressed in the Supplementary Order Paper. Another unusual incidence is trying to give a second reading speech about possible amendments as the Minister is giving out his Supplementary Order Paper responses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe point of that comment is to emphasise my concern about this entire process. I think it is better to take a little more time, particularly in preparing legislation such as this, to get it right rather than to rush it and get it wrong. The politics of that would be entirely borne by Mr Brownlee, but in my view the future recovery of Canterbury is far more important than any political muck the Minister might wear as a result of getting things wrong in this legislation. That is why I urged that a little more time be taken so that submitters could consider the bill, so that the Minister could consider the submissions seriously, and so that more people could have an input into what is a very, very powerful new organisation, and we as a Parliament could send a message to Canterbury that we have a united voice in supporting the recovery of Canterbury. In my view that would be ideal. But, instead, we got a hotchpotch, last-minute, rushed, frustrated process without the select committee even having the opportunity to have technical advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWe had some high-quality submissions. The submitters looked quite exhausted. Some of them had literally spent the night prior to the select committee hearing in Christchurch preparing their submission. That is not a good process. It is not a good process for people to get a bill at 4 o\u2019clock on a Tuesday afternoon and be expected to appear at a select committee between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. the following day. That is a very poor process and it reflects badly on this Parliament. It reflects badly on how we view the concerns of submitters. I think it is disrespectful to expect people to prepare a considered and thoughtful submission with that sort of notice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESome of the submissions were very serious. In fact, the submission from the New Zealand Law Society\u2014a highly regarded organisation\u2014said that one of the clauses, clause 70, gives very wide powers for Orders in Council to override enactments, contrary to the rule of law and good legislation principles, and is therefore undesirable. That is a very strong comment, and others were equally concerned. Although the submitters all said that they support a timely process for the strong recovery of Canterbury, they all also expressed concern about the rushed nature of this process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe other big concern I have, alongside my concern about the rushed process, is the lack of genuine community engagement. If we do not take the people of Canterbury along the path of recovery then in 5, 10, or 20 years\u2019 time the people of Canterbury will not be as passionate about and proud of their region as we currently are. They will not debate vigorously the merits of any adjustment. They will not have the sorts of debates we have about the Square, one-way streets, different buildings, or whether the fountain in the botanical gardens is a certain colour. We will not have that sort of passionate debate, because people will not feel part of their city and their region. We can debate more rigorously about details of our city than any other part of our country, and I want that passion to remain. Other people are amazed by it. Other people sometimes laugh at it. They find it extraordinary. But it is part of the passion of our city, and without community involvement as part of the recovery we will lose that passion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EMr Brownlee\u2019s lack of understanding of how fast communities can engage, and how seriously people want to do that, is demonstrated in the legislation by a clause that says we will have community engagement but it cannot be at the cost of timely recovery. We all know that, but it is insulting to the communities to treat them as something that will slow down and hinder a strong recovery. In fact, the Waimakariri District Council put it very well in its submission when it said quite clearly that not only had the community\u2019s involvement not slowed down the process but also, as the mayor described it, it had made the recovery enduring. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWithout the people of Canterbury going along this path of recovery it will not be a sustainable recovery. It may be a recovery where we get buildings demolished and rubble removed quickly, and where we get our infrastructure rebuilt\u2014we all want that; we all are committed to that path\u2014but what has to be included in this is the voice of the people. No amount of rubble removal, no amount of rapid demolition and rebuild, can give Canterbury the spirit that we need for a strong recovery. Only the voice of the people can do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022edec3e021e1f4e248cbaf84f20142679\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edec3e021e1f4e248cbaf84f20142679\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a call in the second reading of the all-important Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill. I will begin by adding my own thanks in the first instance to Mr Chris Auchinvole for his astute and sensitive chairmanship of the Local Government and Environment Committee hearings, such as we had. I agree with Ruth Dyson that it made a critical difference to the manner in which we were able to get through our work. That was in no small measure due to the personal skills of the chairman, and I thank him for that. I disagree with only one thing, which he said just a moment ago, to the effect that he saw no causal relationship between the time allocated for submitters and the quality of the submissions. Normal human nature makes it very clear there is a close causal correlation between the amount of time one has to make a submission and the quality of that submission. The fact that the submissions were of such high quality was a testimony to the skills of the submitters but not to the integrity of the process, and I think we need to draw that distinction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EBut I thank him for his astute chairmanship. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EI also want to pay personal tribute to the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery. I did so in the select committee and I wish to do so again here. Our criticisms of this bill are in no way intended to attribute any issues of personal trust to the Minister. We recognise the integrity of all members of the House and the Government and also the hard work he has put in to this bill. The issues of trust, as I said in the first reading, are irrelevant. The Green Party is quite critical of both the process behind this bill and the substance, and we will have more to say about that, but it does not attend to personal issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EFinally, I pay a word of thanks to the officials who have backed up the Minister. I have seen them in action in the last 2 weeks or so. I will not name them because they would be embarrassed, but they know who they are and I pay tribute to their skill and their perseverance. The Minister has just distributed a very detailed analysis of the submissions. Obviously the officials have worked through the night on this, and on a very quick, cursory reading it looks very thorough and very professional. It is a tribute to the officials working under the Minister to be able to produce that in a short time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EAs I more or less intimated in the first reading, all of this is redolent of our September experience but it is more critical and it is more intense. So our obligation and responsibility to get this right is heightened, and I doubt there will be any legislation this year in which there is a greater obligation to get this right for the people not only of Canterbury but of New Zealand as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EWe said in our minority report that went into the select committee report that we continue to have concerns both about process and substance. The Green Party has never been convinced that the legislation for the recovery of Greater Christchurch needed to be taken under urgency. It is important, of course, to scrutinise the reasons for any extension of a state of emergency, and I take the point by the Minister that he and his Government are under pressure to end the state of emergency. We, in fact, were querying the criteria for it, and so on; that is the normal requirement on our part. Due provision is rightly in place to restrict the scope and period of such civil defence emergencies. But in our view there is a stronger justification for extending the state of emergency for several more weeks to allow the normal passage of this Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill under normal parliamentary scrutiny than there is to circumvent proper public and parliamentary scrutiny of the bill, which contains such far-reaching measures. The absence of adequate consultation with the responsible entities or expert input through the proper select committee hearings is to the serious detriment of this draft legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EWe acknowledge that the task of recovery in Christchurch is massive. We acknowledge that the purposes of this bill are appropriate. We acknowledge that there is a role for central government, an essential role for central government. It does not follow that that role has to be a dominant one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EWe see potentially three phases in the response to the earthquake. There is, first, the emergency period, there is a recovery period, and there is a rebuild. In the emergency period central government naturally has the dominant role. During the immediate crisis\u2014the emergency\u2014when the tanks and the soldiers are in the streets, the urban search and rescue teams are feverishly retrieving survivors and bodies, and the demolition squads are levelling buildings under urgency, civil defence under emergency powers are appropriate. That period does not last for ever. It has been extended from 22 February to 16 April. The civil defence controller is in charge. That is appropriate. The representation of central government is through him. Local municipalities such as the Christchurch City Council play a secondary role during that period. The search and rescue period is essentially ended. It has been there for almost 2 months. It is entirely possible for it to continue for, say, 2 more weeks so this bill can be decently guided through proper parliamentary passage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EWe then move into the recovery period. That involves the reinstallation of utilities: housing, power, water, and sewerage. That is the natural role for the utility operators acting under the authority of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority. During this period\u2014let us call it a 9-month period; it is there in the bill\u2014there is the requirement to develop the strategy and the plans. In our view, during the recovery period, the lead should be taken by the local authorities\u2014Christchurch City Council for Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EI recognise that the bill acknowledges that the lead role should be taken by the council but there should be not only the lead role but sovereign authority on decision making, in our view. That is where we differ from the Government. Under the bill sovereignty in terms of final sign-off resides with central government. Whatever happened to the principle of subsidiarity? We can suspend subsidiarity during the emergency period; we should not continue that suspension of subsidiarity during the recovery or during the rebuild. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EFinally we would have the period of rebuild itself\u2014the third phase. That will take, let us say, 4 years under the 5-year period we see here in the bill. Why does the rebuild of Christchurch have to be operationalised under the sovereignty of central government? There is no reason for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EWe will be submitting a series of Supplementary Order Papers to remedy the deficiencies in this bill as we see them. They derive essentially from the question of who has the sovereign authority during those three phases to sign-off on decision making. We will be submitting Supplementary Order Paper 232 on the issue of public engagement pertaining to clause 6 to make the community forum more representative. We will require that community membership be confirmed by parliamentary resolution, that the Minister must heed the advice of the cross-party group, and that the Minister will have an obligation under the statute to consult with affected communities. We will be submitting Supplementary Order Papers on the question of powers in respect of clause 15 and clauses 70, 71, and 72. Ruth Dyson has already mentioned clause 70 and the Law Society\u2019s concern over the fact that it is contrary to the rule of law and proper principles of legislation, and that, therefore, it is undesirable. For the Green Party it is not simply undesirable; it is unacceptable if that is the case. We will be submitting further Supplementary Order Papers on a variety of clauses, clauses 10, 30, 24, and 27, to ensure the powers currently under the bill are not excessive to the purposes of the legislation. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u00226f9545a87bc846b3ba06ec993680fb6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f9545a87bc846b3ba06ec993680fb6d\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a short call on this second reading of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill, on behalf of the ACT Party. I have participated in the process at the Local Government and Environment Committee for the hearing of evidence, as we have gone through this bill under urgency. When it comes to principles, the ACT Party would not normally be in favour of the broad sweeping powers we see in this bill, and under normal circumstances we would raise a large number of concerns. But these are not normal circumstances; we have had a terrible coinciding of principle and circumstance as a result of a terrible, terrible natural disaster. We have heard not just as part of the proceedings of this particular bill but since the first earthquake on 4 September of the situation the people in Canterbury are facing, and will face for a large number of years yet. Although I was not there for the particular submission, one submitter yesterday said that extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures, and that is exactly what this Parliament is faced with in this particular instance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe ACT Party is supporting the provisions in this bill. I particularly enjoyed the select committee process, when we had robust discussion on a large number of the clauses, with varying views being put on the table. I had some concerns, as I know that Labour members also did, about some process issues. I felt it was unfortunate that technical advice was not quite as forthcoming as it may have been in the first instance. It is difficult to make good decisions when we do not have the availability of all the advice we need. However, we worked our way through those issues, I believe, and I think that it was very good of the Minister to make a submission to the select committee. That certainly helped with our working our way through many of the provisions. I do not want to talk in detail about the clauses. I think there has been plenty of discussion already about them, and the Committee stage is the appropriate time to have those discussions and debates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EBut I come back, always, to broad principles. It is incumbent on us to do our very best for the people of Christchurch. Although this is a little outside the scope of the bill, I suppose, I tell the House that the ACT Party\u2019s view is that in order to fix Christchurch we will need to fix New Zealand, and that we will all look with great interest at what happens in the Budget. New Zealand is facing difficult circumstances, quite aside from the natural disasters we have suffered in the last year. The ACT Party will have a lot to say, particularly about making wise fiscal decisions for the country, in order to be in very good shape to help Christchurch and Canterbury to the best of our ability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI say again that the ACT Party supports these measures. Under normal circumstances we would have a lot more to say, in a negative sense, about them, but I come back to the point that extraordinary times do indeed call for extraordinary measures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u002277cf977250d04c3b85bab8874b7233f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277cf977250d04c3b85bab8874b7233f3\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to support the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill at its second reading. The Local Government and Environment Committee has spent the last 2 days listening to evidence on this bill. We listened to 17 oral submissions and received 23 submissions in total, and I am very pleased to report that all submitters saw the need for this legislation. It was the general opinion, as we have just heard from Heather Roy, that the extraordinary events in Canterbury need an extraordinary legislative response. As the New Zealand Law Society stated: \u201CThe Canterbury earthquakes and their aftermath justify some sort of emergency legislation to facilitate the speedy restoration of the region. That response however still requires transparency and accountability. The Bill largely meets these objects.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe Legislation Advisory Committee referred to previously established principles required in disaster response legislation, and commented that this bill ticks all the boxes. Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu is confident that statutory centralisation of powers is necessary in this instance. They said that \u201CInternational experience in recovering from natural disaster demonstrates the need for dedicated leadership; clear distribution of responsibilities between entities; clear accountabilities to the people and business of Christchurch; funding and resources from central government.\u201D, and I agree with them. There is no doubt that the people of Christchurch want to get on with recovering from the last three earthquakes as quickly as possible, and the powers of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority are there to help us achieve that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EBut with powers come responsibilities, and this bill includes checks that balance those powers. Firstly and most important, the powers can be used only for earthquake recovery\u2014only for earthquake recovery. Also, the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery is fully accountable to Parliament, and that means to all parties in this House. He has to report every 3 months, and every year the whole Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority organisation has to be reviewed. There are the Order in Council review panel, chaired by a retired High Court judge, the community forum, and the cross-party forum, plus every Christchurch and Canterbury person has their democratic right to speak out, personally or in the media, to hold the Minister to account and to hold the authority to account, and Cantabrians are well-known for their robust, passionate debate on anything and everything. So in this extraordinary situation the bill grants extraordinary powers, but they are not unchecked. Furthermore, it was noted by the Law Society that the previous legislation, which was put in place after the 4 September earthquake, had not been abused. There is no reason to think legislation will be abused this time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EMany groups have spoken about the need for public consultation or, rather, public engagement\u2014that is, the public of Christchurch being involved in the decision making\u2014and those of us who live in the area know that the people of our communities are very keen to contribute. They want to contribute all their ideas to the rebuild. This is our home, and with the opportunity to rebuild it, to rebuild it better, to rebuild it safer, and to rebuild it more beautifully, we all want to have a part in the process. The Minister is very aware of that need. He told us just last night while giving evidence that if we are to achieve anything in Christchurch and Canterbury, the people have to be on board. People want and need the rebuilds, and the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority will help them happen. All the work of the authority is being done in partnership with the existing democratically elected councils and community boards, and the central business district recovery plan must be notified publicly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI have lived in Christchurch and Canterbury all my life. Right now all my energy, like the Government\u2019s, is focused on rebuilding the city I know and love. I believe that the bill provides the framework to get our city and our province moving. I am voting for this bill because it will be good for Christchurch, good for Canterbury, and good for our communities, and it will enable us to restore not just the infrastructure of our place but also the heart and soul of our home. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u00223a3a3f67fa834381919223aad45e8ffc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a3a3f67fa834381919223aad45e8ffc\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I will make two preliminary statements, and they are the following. Firstly, I reject the assertion that disagreeing with the Government means that we are not treating this matter seriously. We are treating this matter seriously. Secondly, I reject the assertion that advocating for my constituents is playing politics. In fact I resent that suggestion, as do my constituents, who are frustrated by the fact that their MP is treated with such disregard when advocating on their behalf. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI will reflect on a couple of elements of what occurred yesterday with regard to submissions on the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill. There was some criticism of the lack of notice and the failure of the Government to provide access to the draft legislation. I believe that that criticism has great merit, but that people came to the table with goodwill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI will comment, though, on the Christchurch City Council\u2019s submission. I was disappointed that the mayor and the chief executive of the largest council affected by this legislation chose not to change other commitments that they had in the 4\u00BD hours that we had available. They had the choice of any time within those 4\u00BD hours to come to the Local Government and Environment Committee, but they did not choose to rearrange their other commitments in order to come to the select committee. Instead they sent the deputy mayor and an in-house counsel, who was quite a good person to have there. They could have brought him anyway, but he was in the unique position of having seen the bill about a week before the legislation was introduced. The chief executive had been allowed to show it to one member of staff, and he was that lucky member of staff. His contribution was very valuable as a result of that, and I place that on record. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI also place on record how valuable the contributions were from the individual councillors who came to plead for community engagement to be at the heart of the process of Canterbury\u2019s recovery: Chrissie Williams, Yani Johanson, Helen Broughton, and Glenn Livingstone. I say to all four of them, well done. They were doing what their constituents elected them to do: to represent their interests in the best possible way that they could, under very trying, difficult circumstances. In saying that, I recognise the fact that not one of those councillors had seen the legislation other than on the website on the previous day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EBut to read in the Press this morning that Christchurch City Council had no idea of what it had done wrong after the first earthquake beggars belief, which is why the chief executive should have fronted to the select committee yesterday. I will be tabling four pieces of correspondence\u2014in fact, I will be tabling a number of pieces of correspondence over the next few hours. But in the second reading I will be tabling four letters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EOn 4 February I wrote a letter to Tony Marryatt, Chief Executive of the Christchurch City Council, and I copied it to every single one of the councillors who sit around that table. I will cover just quickly what I covered in that letter. The first item was recovery planning, and I highlighted the fact that \u201CAs you are aware local authorities have a leadership role under the Civil Defence and Emergency Management Regime with respect to the recovery effort. I understand that in the case of this event the CCC has had to wait to see what response the government would give to EQC\u2019s recommendations on the \u2018Stage 2 report\u2019.\u201D But the council did nothing before that, and it did nothing after that. I went through how it was really important that the council use the template for a recovery action plan on the Ministry of Civil Defence and Emergency Management website if it did not know how to do such a plan, and how our mutual constituents would gain a sense of what is planned and who would be accountable for meeting milestones if it adopted that simple process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI then went on to say \u201CI am aware of the email that you sent councillors where you said that the council is participating in the CERC task groups that have been formed as if that absolved you of your responsibility to develop a recovery action plan for the city\u2014the other affected Councils\u201D\u2014 Waimakariri District Council and Selwyn District Council\u2014\u201Chaven\u2019t adopted this attitude, and are getting on with the job.\u201D I then went on to say \u201CI have had an email from a constituent this morning asking why Kaiapoi is proceeding first\u2014I will be replying that the Waimakariri District Council is doing an excellent job of recovery planning. You have said that the CCC is treating the recovery as \u2018business as usual\u2019, with the exception that you have geared up to provide both the infrastructure rebuild and resource and building consent extra demand. If the CCC thinks that this is your sole role and that recovery can be treated as \u2018business as usual\u2019 then you have read none of the literature, you have not considered recovery best practice, nor have you looked at how other local authorities have dealt with disasters\u201D. I used the example of Tauranga post the landslip, and the fact the Terry Wynyard, who was locally engaged with the Earthquake Commission, could have been available to lead the recovery effort. He had led the effort in Tauranga and was available in Christchurch to talk to the city council. So I have actually done what I said I would do: I have worked behind the scenes to give the council all the information that it needs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI then went on to talk about the fact that the council had made a number of decisions that were predicated on the wrong information, and said I felt it should engage with the Earthquake Commission and the insurers in a meaningful way, so that we could get on with the rebuild part after the first earthquake. I talked about the council\u2019s rates rebate policy missing the mark. I talked about Variation 48 to the district plan becoming operative on 31 January, and I raised several questions about how section 72 of the Building Act would be applied. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI have done my job as a local representative of the people of Christchurch East, and I resent the fact that the city council, through its mayor, then went public to say we were making political capital out of the situation. I wrote to the mayor on 7 February 2011. I said: \u201CI decided not to be offended by your statements about some city MPs trying to make political capital out of the situation, because I am aware that you too have been stressed by the earthquake, coupled with the enormity of the task that this city must confront.\u201D I then went on to explain why the council had missed the boat in terms of its obligations regarding the recovery. It seems to me that the fact that the response effort of everyone was absolutely brilliant\u2014it was textbook; it was fantastic; nobody could criticise the response in the wake of either earthquake\u2014masked the fact that the city council has completely failed the ratepayers of its constituency by not doing recovery at all. It did not even start the recovery process after the first earthquake, and we have lost valuable time as a result of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI will table two other letters. One is the letter I wrote to the Hon Gerry Brownlee on 27 September last year. This is how I concluded the letter, and I referenced it in the letter to the mayor: \u201CThank you for what you are doing to lead the recovery effort. It is a major challenge and I remain committed to assisting you in any way I can.\u201D He wrote back to me on Christmas Eve, and said to me that my comments about how we could have community consultation and communication were well made, and that he would refer those comments through to the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Commission. I have done everything I can to work behind the scenes to look after the interests of my constituents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Minister talks about the people who are living in damaged houses on damaged streets with limited services, and who are uncertain of the future of their properties. He is describing my neighbours. The only reason I do not include myself in that description is that I have some resilience factors that some of my neighbours do not. I am mortgage free. I have a good, uninterrupted income. I have the ability to make choices that are not available to others. I can even sneak away for a quake break and pay for it myself. The Minister says that if we do not agree with this model, then we are imposing a delay on resolving the future of my neighbours. I reject that. How the land report information is released to my constituents must be respectful and must allow for an opportunity to engage that must be better than the handling of the release of both the stage one and stage two reports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI repeat the offer that I have made to the Minister to continue to work with him, but I have to say\u2014and I have said this in writing to the Government\u2014that trust has diminished, and tolerance levels are much lower than they were after the first earthquake. But I will help. I will help, because this issue is too important for politics, and too important for us to get it wrong. There is a need to balance speed and deliberation, but community participation actually promotes the focused, timely, and expedited recovery that the Government says in this bill it wants to achieve. That is why the community must be at the heart of the recovery. I seek leave to table the letters that I referred to in my address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9f8cf7080ef4cfebe83ec9a8e9df0e4\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There appears to be none. The member may table them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EDocuments, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022cab96358df8644cd927aab33de36b963\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cab96358df8644cd927aab33de36b963\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker; kia ora t\u0101tou katoa. M\u014Drena ki a t\u0101tou katoa i t\u0113nei ata i a t\u0101tou e w\u0101nanga nei i te \u0101huatanga o t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire h\u014Du e p\u0101 ana ki \u014Ctautahi. Ko te w\u0101hi ki a au hei whaiwhai haere, ko te \u0101huatanga o te k\u014Drero o te H\u014Dnore Gerry Brownlee i a ia e k\u014Drero ana m\u014D te taha ki a au ki te Ao M\u0101ori. Ka mihi ki a ia m\u014D t\u0101na whakanui i te w\u0101hi ki a Ng\u0101i Tahu, Kai Tahu r\u0101nei, i a r\u0101tou e whakakorikori nei i a r\u0101tou an\u014D, e toro atu te ringa ki uta ki tai, ki w\u012Bw\u012B, ki w\u0101w\u0101, ki te iwi P\u0101keh\u0101, ki te iwi M\u0101ori r\u0101nei n\u0101 runga i te hiahia ki te \u0101whina, t\u0113tahi ki t\u0113tahi, ko te tautoko a t\u0113tahi ki t\u0113tahi. E tika ana ki a Kai Tahu, ko r\u0101tou t\u0113r\u0101 i whakapau kaha ki te \u0101whina i te hunga e rongo nei i te ngau o te mamae, otir\u0101, ko r\u0101tou i rongo r\u0101nei i te ngau o mate. Ko r\u0101tou te hunga i toro atu te ringa ki ng\u0101 iwi katoa o te motu. T\u0113r\u0101 pea n\u0101 ng\u0101 iwi i toro atu te ringa ki a Kai Tahu ki te k\u012B ko ng\u0101 mamae e p\u0101 ana ki a koe Ng\u0101i Tahu, he mamae an\u014D r\u0101 ka p\u0101 mai ki a au ki a Te Arawa, ki a au ki a Tainui, ki a au ki Te Tai Tokerau. N\u014D reira, ka pai t\u0113r\u0101 \u0101huatanga o te Ao M\u0101ori i roto i ng\u0101 whiriwhiringa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EE ai ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, ehara i te mea e tika ana m\u0101ku a Ng\u0101i Tahu e k\u014Drero \u0113ngari, ko t\u0101ku e m\u014Dhio nei ko Ng\u0101i Tahu te hunga k\u0101inga, te hunga ahi k\u0101, ar\u0101 noa atu \u0113tahi \u0113ngari, me p\u0113r\u0101 rawa te k\u014Drero. Ko te hunga e noho mai rar\u0101 i Otautahi, he h\u012Btori an\u014D r\u0101 t\u014D r\u0101tou m\u014D te \u0101huatanga o te noho ki reira. Ar\u0101 n\u014D te k\u014Drero \u201CK\u0101 P\u0101kihi whakatekateka o Waitaha\u201D, ar\u0101 n\u014D te k\u014Drero \u201CTe P\u0101taka o R\u0101kaihaut\u016B\u201D, \u0113nei \u0101huatanga katoa he ingoa e m\u014Dhiotia ana i roto o t\u0113r\u0101 takiw\u0101. E ai ki taku m\u014Dhio kua roa t\u0113tahi iwi e noho mai ana ki reira. E ai ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero o te Ao M\u0101ori, e 700 tau te roa o t\u0101 r\u0101tou noho ki reira. \u0100, ka eke atu a K\u0101ti M\u0101moe, ka eke atu ki reira an\u014D hoki, n\u014D reira, kua noho tahi r\u0101tou ki reira m\u014D ng\u0101 tau e hia k\u0113 nei. E ai ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, kua puta mai ng\u0101 ingoa p\u0113nei i a \u201CTurakautahi\u201D. He rangatira o roto o Ng\u0101i T\u016Bahuriri. Ko ia t\u0113r\u0101 i noho nei i te P\u0101 o Kaiapoi t\u0113r\u0101 takiw\u0101. I roto i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero kua tae mai ki a au m\u014D Ng\u0101ti Huikai, t\u014D r\u0101tou rangatira, toa nei a Tautahi, whakat\u016B i tana k\u0101inga, i tana p\u0101 t\u016Bwatawata, ki t\u0113r\u0101 takiw\u0101 o \u014Ctautahi. Tae atu ki te w\u0101 i puta te k\u014Drero, ko \u014Ctautahi, hei whaiwhai haere i t\u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 rangatira o Ng\u0101ti Huikai. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, ko te tikanga o taku k\u014Drero he k\u012B atu, \u0101e, he w\u0101hi an\u014D t\u014D te Ao M\u0101ori kei t\u0113r\u0101 takiw\u0101. Kai wareware i a t\u0101tou t\u0113r\u0101 w\u0101hi. Mai r\u0101 an\u014D i t\u0101 r\u0101tou noho ki reira tae r\u0101 n\u014D ki ng\u0101 r\u0101 tata kua hipa ake. Ka hoki r\u0101 an\u014D ki te \u0101huatanga o te pakanga nui nei o te ao, te pakanga ki t\u0101w\u0101hi. Ko te Ao M\u0101ori an\u014D r\u0101 t\u0113r\u0101 i haere ki t\u0101w\u0101hi ka hoki mai. I \u0101whina an\u014D r\u0101 ki te wh\u0101ngai, ki te tuku i ng\u0101 painga ki ng\u0101 h\u014Dia i haere ki te t\u0101w\u0101hi ki ng\u0101 pakanga nui o te ao. I reira an\u014D hoki te Ao M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u014D n\u0101 tata nei e k\u012B ana te k\u014Drero, ka mate te k\u0101inga tahi, ka ora te k\u0101inga rua. He kupu k\u014Drero t\u0113r\u0101, he whakatauk\u012B e k\u014Drero ana m\u014D te \u0101huatanga o \u014Ctautahi tonu. Ka hinga t\u0113tahi k\u0101inga, \u0101, kua h\u016Bnuku atu ki te k\u0101inga rua. N\u014D reira, \u0113nei k\u014Drero katoa ka hoki mai an\u014D r\u0101 ki a au i a t\u0101tou e k\u014Drero nei m\u014D t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 kaupapa i te ata nei. N\u014D n\u0101 tata nei, an\u014D hoki kua k\u014Drero m\u0101tou o te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori m\u014D te kaha tautoko o ng\u0101 iwi katoa tae atu ki ng\u0101 w\u0101tene M\u0101ori tonu kua tae atu ki \u014Ctautahi mai i ng\u0101 t\u014Dpito katoa ki te tautoko i a Kai Tahu, \u014D \u0113tahi rohe k\u0113 i T\u0101kitimu, i a au i a Te Arawa, i Te Tai Tokerau kua h\u016Bnuku atu ki reira m\u014D te w\u0101 poto. Kua h\u016Bnuku ng\u0101 ringa raup\u0101 o ng\u0101 tari hauora ki \u014Ctautahi tonu ki te \u0101whina i a r\u0101tou. N\u014D reira, ahakoa k\u0101re au i tae atu ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero i nanahi nei i \u014Ctautahi, ki te select committee, k\u0101re au i rongo i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero. Kua rongo au i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero o t\u0113n\u0101, o t\u0113n\u0101, o t\u0113n\u0101 i te ata nei ki te k\u012B, \u0101e, i tae atu te hapori ki te whakatakoto i \u014D r\u0101tou nawe. I t\u014Dna mutunga mai, kei muri m\u0101tou i te K\u0101wanatanga N\u0101hinara i roto i ng\u0101 whiriwhiringa i te mea, kei te m\u014Dhio tonu, ar\u0101 n\u014D te iwi o Ng\u0101i Tahu e noho nei i roto i te uauatanga. Me p\u0113r\u0101 rawa te k\u014Drero. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, ko t\u0101 m\u0101tou ko te k\u012B atu, k\u0101ti, kua roa a Ng\u0101i Tahu me \u0113tahi atu e noho ana ki reira. E reka ana ki a m\u0101tou te \u0101huatanga o te k\u014Drero a te Minita a Gerry Brownlie, ka whai w\u0101hi a Ng\u0101i Tahu ki roto i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero ka puta \u0101 ng\u0101 r\u0101 kai mua i te aroaro me \u0113tahi M\u0101ori an\u014D r\u0101. Ko Te R\u016Bnanga tonu, ko te tikanga ka noho nei i runga i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B ka whakahaere take nei hei whakaora an\u014D r\u0101 i a \u014Ctautahi, ka mutu, ki taku m\u014Dhio ka eke an\u014D r\u0101 a Rahui Katene, to m\u0101tou mema P\u0101remata m\u014D t\u0113r\u0101 rohe ki roto i te k\u0101hui o ng\u0101 p\u0101ti o te Whare P\u0101remata ki reira. He mea pai t\u0113r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EN\u014D reir\u0101, he paku k\u014Drero ki te k\u012B atu, kai wareware ko te reo o te Ao M\u0101ori ki reira i roto i t\u0113r\u0101 t\u0101one o \u014Ctautahi me te k\u012B atu, kai muri, kai mua, kai ng\u0101 taha a Ng\u0101i Tahi i ng\u0101 whiriwhiringa katoa m\u014D te aha? Na runga i te whakaaro i tipu mai ai t\u014D r\u0101tou whakapapa i reira. Ko te ahi k\u0101, ko r\u0101tou t\u0113r\u0101 n\u0101 te \u0101huatanga o t\u0101 r\u0101tou here ki te whenua kai reira. N\u014D reira, me whai w\u0101hi r\u0101tou ki roto i ng\u0101 nekeneke o te w\u0101. Kei te tautoko ake i te hiahia o te Minita kia w\u0101hi r\u0101tou i roto i ng\u0101 nekeneke o t\u0113nei pire, me te t\u016Bmanako ia, t\u0113r\u0101 pea ka \u0101ta wetewete i te h\u014Dhonutanga o te pire \u0101 k\u014D ake nei i te w\u0101hanga komiti. N\u014D reira, kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and to us all. Good morning to all, as we debate aspects of this new bill relating to Christchurch, at this hour. The part of the Hon Gerry Brownlee\u2019s speech that I want to follow is where I and M\u0101oridom fit into the scheme of things. I commend him for acknowledging the part that Ng\u0101i Tahu or Kai Tahu has played, as they roused themselves by extending a hand in all directions to non-M\u0101ori and M\u0101ori people in their desire to help and to support one another. For Kai Tahu, it was the right thing to do. So there they were, hard at work giving assistance to those suffering from injuries, and in the case of loss of life. They were the ones who extended a hand to all the people of the nation. Tribes, on the other hand, extended a hand to Kai Tahu, saying: \u201CPain suffered by you, Kai Tahu, affects me: Te Arawa, Tainui, and Te Tai Tokerau, as well.\u201D So that aspect of Maoridom is wonderful, in the deliberations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ECustomary lore states that it is not for me to speak for Ng\u0101i Tahu, but I know for a fact that they are the ahi k\u0101, the burning fires of occupation. There is much other anecdotal lore that suggests this, as well. The ones living in Christchurch can historically vouch for their presence there. Take the reference to \u201CThe wetlands and plains of Canterbury: K\u0101 P\u0101kihi Whakatekateka o Waitaha\u201D. Here is another one: \u201CBanks Peninsula: Te P\u0101taka o R\u0101kaihaut\u016B\u201D. All these kinds of references are widely known geographical terms in that district. To my understanding, a tribe has lived there for a long period of time. According to stories of the M\u0101ori World, that tribe has been there for 700 years. K\u0101ti M\u0101moe migrated and settled there for a very long time, as well. According to stories, the place name \u201CTurakautahi\u201D came from a Ng\u0101i T\u016B\u0101huriri chief. He established Kaiapoi P\u0101 in that area. In the stories that came to me about Ng\u0101ti Huakai, their chief\u2014a warrior, Tautahi\u2014set up a settlement in that part of Christchurch, and \u014Ctautahi became the M\u0101ori name for Christchurch, to acknowledge him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESo the nub of my address is that, yes, M\u0101oridom has a historical connection to that place. We must never lose sight of the fact that Kai Tahu has been there a long time and continues to be there, right up to the present. The circumstances of this presence go back to the great wars of the world, the overseas battles that M\u0101oridom took a part in and returned from. They also helped by providing sustenance to the troops, and supported the war effort in the battles of the world. M\u0101oridom was there, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe proverb about a first home being no more, and a second one rising up in its place, continues to apply to Christchurch. When a house collapses, the family shifts to a second one. So all these matters came back to mind this morning when we talked about one of the proposals. It was just recently that we of the M\u0101ori Party talked about the strong support provided by all tribes, even the M\u0101ori wardens, who arrived in Christchurch from everywhere to support Kai Tahu; those of Kai Tahu who shifted for a short time to areas in T\u0101kitimu, and with me in Te Arawa and Te Tai Tokerau. Some health department staff have shifted to Christchurch to specifically help them there. I did not get to Christchurch to hear the submissions to the select committee yesterday, and I still have not heard a thing. I heard different members say this morning that, yes, the community was there to express their concerns. At the end of it all, we support the National-led Government in its deliberations, because we know that the Ng\u0101i Tahu people are living in difficult times, if I may say so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ESo the statement being made here is that Ng\u0101i Tahu and others have been there for a very long time. We are pleased to hear that according to Minister Gerry Brownlee, Ng\u0101i Tahu and other M\u0101ori are to be included in the community forum that is to be announced shortly. The R\u016Bnanga of Ng\u0101i Tahu is explicitly one of the entities the new authority must work alongside, in terms of the recovery of Christchurch. Further to that, Rahui Katene, our member of Parliament for the Te Tai Tonga electorate, will be included in the cross-party forum of Canterbury MPs. That has got to be a good thing. And just a little reminder, too, that she is the spokesperson for M\u0101oridom, there in the city of Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ENg\u0101i Tahu is everywhere in the consultation process\u2014front, back, and sides\u2014and for what reason? Their genealogy evolved from there. \u201CBurning fires of occupation\u201D\u2014they are indeed that, and that is the real reason that ties them to the land there. They must be involved in the consultations of the moment. The desire of the Minister to have them involved in every aspect of this bill is endorsed with the hope, as well, that some of the deeper implications of this bill will be carefully unravelled when we get to the Committee stage in due course. So I acknowledge us.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u0022942bac8920b54350a25403ae462440bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022942bac8920b54350a25403ae462440bc\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E This is the first time, Mr Assistant Speaker Robertson, that I have had an opportunity to congratulate you on your new role. It is very nice to have you in the Chair this morning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI rise to take a call in the second reading debate on the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill. I want to start contribution where I left off in my first reading speech and restate that what this bill is all about is stated in clause 3, the purpose clause. This bill is about providing a mechanism and framework of powers that will be sufficient to allow our Canterbury communities to respond to, and recover from, the two\u2014arguably three or more\u2014devastating earthquakes that have ripped through our province. The bill provides a framework that, of necessity, sets up a balance between a timely, effective, and, I am not afraid to say, quick\u2014although that is a relative term\u2014response while ensuring that we do engage, involve, and bring our communities with us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThrough the course of the select committee process, since Tuesday night and through yesterday, one submitter was very concerned that some people may feel that \u201Cquick and timely response\u201D and \u201Cinvolving the community\u201D are mutually exclusive terms. I have never thought that that was the case; and I do not think that anyone does. I have always been of the view that one can have a quick, timely, and focused response while still bringing the community along and involving them in the process. But we do have to acknowledge and accept, if we are going to make our way through this, that that involvement will not mean the agreement of everyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EIf some people go into this process thinking that if they, at the end of the day, do not get the outcome they wanted, then the process has failed, or it has not been democratic, or it has not listened to the community, then we are all setting ourselves up to fail. So my plea to everyone engaged in this process\u2014community leaders, the public of Canterbury, central government, elected representatives, or anyone\u2014is that they accept and be very clear from the outset that the necessary and absolutely central process of engagement will leave some people feeling unhappy with the outcome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EMuch has been said about the great work that has been done in the Waimakariri and Selwyn districts since 4 September, and I concur; it has been great work. But even in those provinces some people right now still do not think that the process and the agreements that have been reached are right, and they will grizzle and say things should have gone a different way. That will happen, and in my view the trick to this balancing act is to work out how and when one draws the line under that process of listening and engaging, and gets into the \u201Cmaking decisions and making things happen\u201D state. I have no doubt, at all, that the process of finding when one should draw the line under discussions, finding the point where a decision has to be made and acted on, will be the crunch point going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI come back to some of what we heard from submitters over the course of the last 24 hours. I was very heartened that overwhelmingly what we heard from the submitters whom we spoke to\u2014the key stakeholders in this process, I guess one could say\u2014was a sense of positivity, agreement, and collegiality, and an acceptance of what actually needed to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EWe can see, certainly from the Labour minority view and from the tenor of the select committee report, that there is a general sense of acceptance that a centralised framework of enhanced powers is absolutely necessary. I do not think I have heard anything from across the House that suggests that that is not the case, and I think that is a tremendously important point to get on the record. We do have in this House a very good political consensus around the fact that there needs to be a centralised system of enhanced powers reaching across the Canterbury region if we are to get the sort of recovery, the sort of timely focused and involved process, we must have in Canterbury. Let us not forget that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI am not saying, for one minute, that every submitter thought everything in the bill was absolutely perfect. They all came with a number of suggestions and comments as to things that could be looked at. I appreciated that, and a lot of that was very valid information, but the thing I really respected them for was that even where they thought changes should be made, they approached the process in a sense of positive collaboration and constructive input. That is the absolute tenor that we will have to stick with all the way through this process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EA couple of comments from submitters really stuck with me during the select committee process; the truncated process that it obviously had to be. One was the submission from Mark Solomon of Ng\u0101i Tahu, and he has already been quoted by Heather Roy in her contribution. He talked about the fact that, yes, these are extraordinary powers but it is an extraordinary and unprecedented situation. The other thing he said that I think is worth repeating in this forum is that these are extraordinary powers but they are not unchecked powers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThere is a comprehensive system of checks and balances on these powers, and to suggest that it is a carte blanche operation is an absolute farce and would be completely leading people down the wrong path. There are considerable checks on the exercise of these powers and, what is more, we have had a bit of a trial run in the response to the 4 September earthquake, where we have seen the use of this sort of open-ended power work remarkably well, even to the point where the initial critics of that process have been saying it has been working pretty well. So we are not going into this blind. We have had a dry run. It has worked very well, and I think that is why we are seeing so many of the stakeholders engaging with us in a constructive way, accepting that this is necessary, and wanting to talk with us around the edges of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI will comment on a couple of the points made in the contributions we have heard from around the House this morning. I thank Dr Kennedy Graham for his contribution and the way he approached the select committee process. Obviously, we do not agree on a lot of things, but I particularly appreciated the fact that Dr Graham approached the debate in a constructive, professional, and polite manner at all times. I certainly appreciated that from him. As I understood it, Dr Graham\u2019s view was that extraordinary powers are needed only in the civil defence response period, and I cannot accept that. I cannot accept that, because I am seeing in my communities every day situations where lives and families are at risk because of potential delay. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EJust this week I have been working with one constituent in my area whose family has a business that they have run for 35 years in a rural community. They were well insured, they had 12 months\u2019 loss-of-business cover, but they are now 7 months into that cover and they are still waiting for consent to get their dangerous, red-stickered property demolished so that they can begin a rebuild. The owners want it demolished, the insurance company wants it demolished, and two structural engineers have agreed that it is dangerous and needs to be demolished, yet since 4 September they have been battling to get a demolition consent for no other reason than that the resources to deal with this appropriately are simply not there at a local council level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThat family is 7 months into this process, they have 5 months left before they face bankruptcy, and the only thing holding them up is the red tape and bureaucracy of the business-as-usual process. I cannot sit by and watch that business, that family supporting two generations, go into bankruptcy because the bureaucracy is not set up to say: \u201CClearly, the building has to come down, so get it done; bring it down.\u201D So I do not accept that we do not need continued extraordinary powers, and I do not agree with Dr Graham that we can just leave it to councils to get on with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EWe have four councils in this region that have to come together and work together. We have to ensure there are centralised, coordinated powers, and we have to ensure there is a framework of ultimate power that can be exercised if the normal processes do not work. That is what this bill does, and that is why I support it. In the words of Mark Solomon from Ng\u0101i Tahu: \u201CWhen we are rebuilding Canterbury, we have to remember that we have to get on with this. We have to do it for us and for our children.\u201D What we know from all the international evidence is that a fast rebuild is the best thing for our communities socially, environmentally, culturally, and economically. We have to get on with this. We have to do it well, and we cannot afford the delays that business as usual would bring. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022d93673bc55a4479ca7a633b7b7c24b4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d93673bc55a4479ca7a633b7b7c24b4c\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker Robertson; I will commence this contribution by acknowledging your elevation to the Assistant Speaker\u2019s role. I congratulate you on that. I am sure you will serve this House very well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the role played by the chair of the Local Government and Environment Committee, Chris Auchinvole, in difficult circumstances over the last 48 hours in chairing that rapid select committee process, truncated as it was. I also acknowledge that the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery, Gerry Brownlee, at least allowed us that truncated process. That was a step forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EIn his opening comments on the second reading of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill, Mr Brownlee asked whether we should go slowly or at some pace. I think that by that he was suggesting that if we had a process for community engagement, it would slow the recovery process in Canterbury. I have to say to him that I do not believe that those are mutually exclusive. In the bill, at least now, the reference to community participation has been moved from the very rear of the bill\u2014at clause 66\u2014to the front of the bill, but this is not actually about community consultation; it is about community engagement. It is about letting Cantabrians feel they really have a chance to have a say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI need to point out that, to date, the process for participation has\u2014to use a new word in the Christchurch vernacular\u2014been somewhat munted. If we consider that in the select committee process 12 submitters were invited to offer their views on the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill, we know that at least half of those submitters had not received copies of the bill before about 5 p.m. on Tuesday. Indeed, we saw the farcical situation where it took my colleague the Hon Clayton Cosgrove\u2019s raising the matter in the House on Tuesday afternoon\u2014after the bill had been tabled in the House but before it was even on the parliamentary website\u2014before members of the Christchurch City Council were able to access copies of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe deputy mayor told us in her submission yesterday that she heard about the bill on the radio. That is not satisfactory. The council\u2019s solicitor told us yesterday that he got a draft of the bill 2 weeks ago because he heard about it and put pressure on the Government to ensure that he got a copy, which he received late in the afternoon. He had to have it back by 10 o\u2019clock the next morning, and he worked overnight on that bill in draft. He had to do that, because the chief executive of the Christchurch City Council would allow only him to be the one nominated person who was able to see the draft, which raises the question: did the Mayor of Christchurch even see the draft of the bill? This is not consultation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery has taken out newspaper advertisements proclaiming that he is engaged in wide consultation on the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority. I say to the Minister that his version of wide consultation may involve looking in his mirror; it does not seem to involve actually engaging with the community. I would have thought that given this is the second crack at Canterbury earthquake recovery legislation and at setting up a body to deal with the issues, lessons might be learnt that real gains are to be had from taking the community with us and allowing key stakeholders to be consulted, rather than having them learn about it on the radio and rely on members of Parliament to raise the issue of getting the bill on to the parliamentary website so that it can be seen, then having people work through the night so that they could make submissions on the process. To me, that is not what community engagement is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI note that if we are talking about consultation, even since the earthquake itself a school in my electorate, Linwood College, has had a commissioner installed very, very rapidly with no process of consultation. That does not auger well for the process we have in front of us at the moment, but we will try to do our very best to make sure that community engagement will actually take place under this bill, because it is about making sure that our communities are empowered and are able. Our communities can work rapidly\u2014they can work rapidly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003ENobody\u2014nobody\u2014wants to impede the progress of our city in recovering from our nation\u2019s worst natural disaster. But, as Dean Peter Beck of the Christchurch Cathedral said in his submission to the select committee yesterday, this recovery needs to be Christchurch-driven. It needs to be Christchurch-driven and not Wellington-driven. That is why we need the community to be involved; we do not need to have assembled a Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority of Wellington bureaucrats. We need to have the community involved, because, as Dean Peter noted to the committee yesterday, there is much anxiety. This is not the first quake; this is the second quake, and many people have been living with the consequences now for 7 long, hard months. We are heading into what may be a vicious winter, given we have had a long, hot summer, and that is why we need to make sure the community\u2019s voice comes through loud and clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EAs the dean also noted, we need to engage the heart and spirit of the Christchurch community, not just to have the recovery process top-down. It needs to be bottom-up, otherwise, as he noted finally in respect of his comments, cynics might say that the community forum encapsulated in the bill could be just something of a sideshow. It would be a tragedy for us all if that were the case. We must make sure Christchurch people are involved. They are strong-willed, they are community-focused, and they need to be very much at the heart of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI will turn to the issues of the central business district of Christchurch, which is at the heart of my community, and which is the focus of much of the bill\u2014and appropriately so, given that it is the commercial heart of our city and our province. Some very big issues are looming in respect of insurance, demolition, and those who are to pay for that demolition. Just yesterday the controller announced that another 123 buildings need either full or partial demolition, and that most of them are in the central business district. That is on top of 184 other buildings, so already more than 300 buildings have been earmarked for demolition. Most of them are outside the red zone. As John Hamilton, the civil defence controller, indicated, that list will grow by several hundred. We may be talking about the thick end of a thousand buildings needing demolition, so it is absolutely crucial that this bill gets the issues right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI note that one of the parties that submitted on the bill, the Insurance Council of New Zealand, was among those parties that had not seen the bill until it was tabled in the House yesterday. That council is the representative body of the insurance industry, and it has very valid concerns about the issues of who will meet the costs of demolition. Of course, huge buildings in our central business district may need to be imploded in order to be brought down, or we may need some other rapid process to take them down. I am thinking of the Hotel Grand Chancellor and Clarendon Towers. The signals are that to take them down by conventional process will take months and months, and that that will impact on the central business district\u2019s ability to recover. The potential for exploding those buildings and bringing them down also raises issues about buildings in their shadow, and potentially of damage being brought down on undamaged buildings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EWe have huge issues, and that is why this bill is so important in terms of its complex detail. That is why I made the point that we firstly needed to have some genuine participation in, and consultation about, the bill, and then we needed to ensure that the processes for engagement with the community\u2014the business community and the people in affected suburbs\u2014were genuine, and that people were able to have real input into the running of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority from there on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI note that organisations such as IconiC, Interests in Conserving the Identity of Christchurch, which was formed after the bill was drafted, are standing ready to be involved, and they want to be involved. I will give members an example with which those organisations have already been involved. Anthony Gough owns two buildings in Hereford Street, both of which were demolished without any consultation with, or reference to, him. One of those buildings needed to come down and the status of the other was questionable, but both buildings happened to be painted the same colour, and both came down. That is why we need this bill to be absolutely precise. We need to be clear about the processes, and to make sure that people have input into those processes, which will ensure that we do not have further unwarranted demolitions like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI will work as the MP for Christchurch Central to do all I can in the next few hours to improve this bill. I will work for my constituents in both the central business district and the affected suburbs of Christchurch Central. I will do my very best to make the best of this Canterbury earthquake recovery legislation, but I will do so with some considerable anxiety, given the lack of engagement that the Government has had to date with interested parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002271c62970b1d7445fbd1a227373d4b24d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271c62970b1d7445fbd1a227373d4b24d\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E This Government is focused on the things that matter. The Canterbury earthquake recovery is top of everyone\u2019s agenda right now. I was very proud to be part of the parliamentary committee that heard evidence over the last few days, and it was very ably chaired by Chris Auchinvole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EWe have heard in this House that Labour members will not be playing petty politics, but I have to say that I have been enormously embarrassed to be a member of Parliament, having witnessed the behaviour of some of those members in the past few days. Their pathetic posturing has been embarrassing to me as a member of this House. When submitters take the time to appear before us and provide evidence, they want to know that they are being taken seriously. Members on this side of the House take them seriously. We know that timelines are tight, and that is to be expected in a time of emergency. The Prime Minister was in the Taup\u014D electorate last week and the resounding comments when members of the public came up to him acknowledged the Government\u2019s strong leadership in this time of crisis. One submitter yesterday acknowledged the fact that there was a short time frame for public submissions. But that was clearly preferable than having all readings of this bill at once. So instead of the petty politics that some of the Labour members engaged in today, I want to bring the voices of those submitters to this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe Christchurch City Council supports the bill. It accepts the need for a single Government-funded agency to coordinate the recovery in Christchurch, and it is grateful for the leadership provided by the Government. If we look at Environment Canterbury, we see that it is supportive of the direction the Government has taken in setting up the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority. The Legislation Advisory Committee had some very useful things to say to us. At the start of its evidence, it went through a checklist of the principles when emergency laws are being put together, and it was able to tick all of those boxes with this bill. The New Zealand Law Society acknowledged that the extraordinary events in Canterbury need an extraordinary legislative response. Ng\u0101i Tahu\u2019s words have been brought to this House already, and I want to stress the fact that they said that extraordinary powers were in this bill, but they are not unchecked. They also talked about the fact that natural disasters demonstrate very clearly the need for dedicated leadership, for the clear distribution of responsibilities between entities, for clear accountabilities to the people and business of Christchurch, and for funding and resources from central government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe Canterbury District Health Board also came before us and talked about the importance of the ability to prevent illness and for people to stay healthy largely being determined by how they live their lives. It stressed the importance for us to focus not only efficiently and quickly but also holistically on rebuilding Canterbury. Orion also recognised the efforts that the Government is putting in by responding quickly and effectively. The very able member for Selwyn, Amy Adams, has spoken about the fact that her district council has worked incredibly well to recover from the first earthquake, and it is also supportive of the concept envisaged in the provisions in the bill. Waimakariri is also supportive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI think it is very clear that the voices of the submitters who gave evidence yesterday recognise the fact that this is emergency legislation, recognise that these are extraordinary times and that extraordinary powers are being given, and recognise that we need those powers. I am very proud to be part of a Government that is committed to rebuilding Christchurch and Canterbury. It is a Government that is focusing on the issues that matter, and not playing petty politics in this House. We are focused on getting things done. This is what matters to Christchurch. This is what matters to the country. I am very proud to be speaking in support of the second reading of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f41295e1bce64b3a89ded17cacdb4fc1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 111\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a9600b33dcdc4ae38ed3078f676d4e92\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022020b270d35334b6eb54d337065ba9027\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022020b270d35334b6eb54d337065ba9027\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the bill to be taken as one question, and for members to have unlimited calls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a9e12cdcddc484cb0b58b52eaa878fb\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022da728d56ba264c85aafc1512f35dbf28\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2, Parts 1 and 2, and schedules 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002271b903fe82d448a881cf2fbdf9480e81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271b903fe82d448a881cf2fbdf9480e81\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E I do not intend to take a lot of time at this point, but I will speak again during the process of this Committee stage. I want to indicate that there is a document being provided to parties, indicating the Government\u2019s position on a number of recommendations that came through from the Local Government and Environment Committee. That is in addition to a number of recommendations previously considered, which were supplied by Labour prior to the select committee process. I know there are other Supplementary Order Papers coming from members this afternoon. The Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper that gives life to the agreed parts of the document being provided will be with the Committee as soon as possible; officials are working on it at the moment. We are some minutes ahead of where I thought we might be at this stage. There is no intention to try to slow that process. That Supplementary Order Paper needs to be properly written, and that is why that document is being provided, to give those early indications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022faaff93cd0714768ab810e5ba353251f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022faaff93cd0714768ab810e5ba353251f\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I had the opportunity to sit on the Local Government and Environment Committee over the past couple of days as it fulfilled its task, as it was required to do by the House on Tuesday, to hear evidence on the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill. I will make a couple of points in what I take will be a wide-ranging debate, given that all the parts of the bill are being heard and debated together. My first point is to agree with an observation made by Amy Adams in her second reading speech, which was that members on this side of the Chamber agree that the Canterbury situation calls for emergency powers. That was made crystal clear in the minority view set out by the committee and reported back to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EBut members on this side of the Chamber differ from members of the Government in the following ways: we do not believe that this process merits urgency; we do not believe that the Minister requires powers beyond the reach of the courts; we do not believe that the ordinary rights of New Zealanders to have recourse to the courts by way of appeal need to be abridged; and we do not agree that the powers of Parliament, in particular to extend laws, should be delegated just to the executive, particularly not this executive. That is an unnecessary usurpation of the role of Parliament. It is unconstitutional. It should not have been done after the September earthquake, but it was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245960213490640ad91750cf8f390dbba\u0022\u003ENicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: You voted for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc50e4b7f8a74bffb263a962ae8ecb37\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: We have just heard Nikki Kaye in her first interjection during this debate. Let us hope the future interjections, if there are any\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b765959e0de74f0c9c0fdf10dd439db9\u0022\u003EAmy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: At least get the name right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c63e3804632a449e9af8b7aed332aadb\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I am sorry. It was one the generic members on the other side. It was actually Nicky Wagner. My apologies for the confusion, but sometimes they all blur into one. She said \u201CYou voted for it.\u201D Well, I tell Ms Wagner that we voted for it because we believe that we need to get on, as has been said, and deal with the emergency in Canterbury. But that does not mean we need, effectively, to elect a dictatorship to do it. The problem that will happen when people look back at the way this Parliament has dealt with this situation is the problem that applies to all attempts at dictatorship. It looks like a great idea to make the trains run on time at the point when the attempt is made. But the precedent is incredibly regrettable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9ca4f9184bf4241b5c6258d9327038b\u0022\u003EAmy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Come and live in a broken house over winter and talk about precedents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022995273f8144f4b63be3af9994d212447\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: Amy Adams should know that; she has a law degree. Maybe she slept through the constitutional law section of that degree. The reality is that it does not pay to disturb constitutional arrangements. We are acting in haste and we will repent at leisure. I am putting that on the record now so that Labour\u2019s position is crystal clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIf there had been proper process in relation to this legislation, we would have a better bill. It would reflect better practice\u2014better international practice\u2014in relation to recovery. There would be a Crown entity in place, not one completely amenable to the control and direction of the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery. There would be much better provisions in relation to collaboration with the community. Those are the sorts of things that are paid lip-service to by members opposite, but which they plainly do not mean, given the provisions of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe Minister has just told us that there is a 21-page summary that has been made available to us. It contains his decisions in relation to which recommendations by the submitters to the select committee are to be accepted, and which are not. I want to be fair in paying tribute to the Minister for that exercise. There are some important matters that have been taken on board, and I look forward to eventually seeing the Supplementary Order Paper that carries them through. Unfortunately, the ones I have drawn attention to in relation to the very wide powers that will go to the executive at the expense of this Parliament, and in relation to appeal rights, are not actioned. That will be a problem going forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThis, as I have said, is not an optimal bill, but it is better because of the insistence of Labour on some sort of select committee process, so that there could be at least some sort of input from persons other than in this Chamber. It would have been better if there had been more time, more notice, and better public input. It would have been better if we had had officials\u2019 advice, which was not available to us in the process, and if we had the evidence that was presented to us recorded and transcribed. But because of the way this was done, none of that was available. As I said, the bill is better because of some public input. It could have been so much better if we had had a better process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EHaving said that, I pay tribute to a number of people who participated in the process to make the bill better than it otherwise would have been. I start with the Clerk of the House. This was an unusual procedure. We were blessed to have her guidance late at night, as it happened, on Tuesday. That guidance was extremely valuable, I think, to all members of the committee in terms of discharging their responsibilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI pay tribute to my Labour colleagues for the work they did on the committee. They were diligent and careful in terms of their hearing of the evidence. I reject the very unfortunate comments made by Louise Upston to the contrary. I actually expected better from that member, because she played an important and constructive role on the committee itself. I would have thought she might have recognised that Labour members, in insisting on the process to start with and then participating fully in it, more than discharged their parliamentary responsibilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI will say that the chair did a good job in difficult circumstances, and, ultimately, when we came to consider the production of the minority report, National members recognised that their ultimate responsibilities lay with their roles as parliamentarians, and it is appropriate to put that on record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI also pay tribute to Heather Roy and Kennedy Graham. They were true respecters of such parliamentary process as we could have in the process, and it is valuable to record their contribution. I will say more about the detailed concerns I have at a later point in the Committee stage debate, particularly in respect of the dangers around the delegation of powers to the Minister and to the executive by Parliament. Meanwhile, I will repeat my rejection of the words of Louise Upston in her second reading speech. Members on this side of the House are not playing politics. If we were, we would be voting against the bill. As it is, we are voting for the bill at this point. That is our contribution to ensuring that the right thing is done in Canterbury. Members on the other side of the House should not expect that that means a blank cheque. I conclude my remarks by echoing something that was said earlier by Clayton Cosgrove. This recovery model has been chosen by the Government. We will try to make it work, but if our concerns are realised that the model will not work as well as it might, and if the very wide powers that are conferred by the model are abused, then it is very clear where the responsibility for that failure and that abuse will lie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00227cb0755b101f437fbb8027d829ee6755\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227cb0755b101f437fbb8027d829ee6755\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I will pick up on some of the process points Mr Chauvel dealt with. I say to the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery that I was not here for his explanation as to why we do not have a Supplementary Order Paper from the Government, but I had a short conversation with him. We are here in the Committee stage considering extraordinary legislation and we have no Government Supplementary Order Paper. That is not good enough. It goes beyond just-in-time management. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe people of Canterbury want the bill to work, but for it to work we have to have a basic process. Yesterday in the Local Government and Environment Committee extraordinarily we were denied the right to have officials with us in an advisory capacity. People who are listening need to understand the situation. I suspect, as I have said before to Mr Brownlee, that people want us to get on with the bill, but they also want us to get it right the first time and not be back here in a couple of months, 6 months, or whenever, saying that we have to fix the things that people told us we should fix but we did not. People want us to get the bill right first time. We need officials in the select committee because we do not have a monopoly on all knowledge. Submitters were testing out arguments and making suggestions, and it would have been helpful and strategically smart for all sides to have had officials present for a health check so we could get the bill right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe did not have officials present, and we had 4 hours and 40 minutes of a select committee process with the public. I agree that the select committee was rightly targeted to key stakeholders. We did not expect, as I think somebody said, that there should have been weeks of a select committee process, but we would have been happy with an extra 24 hours. We would have been happy if the Minister had signalled to submitters on Friday that there would be a select committee hearing, so that they had the weekend to come up with robust submissions. Submitters had less than 24 hours\u2019 notice. They did an extraordinary job. I pay tribute to Chris Auchinvole for his chairing. He did a wonderful impression of Henry Kissinger in trying to diplomatically knit the show together. I accept that there is some robust emotion around the bill, which some people characterise as politics and others of us would characterise as doing our job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe had 4 hours and 40 minutes for people to discuss their submissions. As I have said before, when Dr Warren Young and Mr George Tanner from the Legislation Advisory Council were asked when they had received the bill they told us that the first time they had seen it was at 4 o\u2019clock or thereabouts when it was put on the website. Why do we want a little extra scrutiny? We want a little extra scrutiny so that we can ensure, as I keep saying, that we get the bill right. There is no politics in that. If I were the Minister in the chair, I would first recognise that I do not have a monopoly on all knowledge, and I would want a reasonable amount of advice from others, even if it was for a political alibi\u2014to say I listened. But even that advice has not been engaged. If I were the Minister, I would want advice to ensure that I could put legislation in front of this Parliament that would give confidence to the people of Canterbury that we will get it right first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EHere we are now at 5 to 11. We rise for lunch at 1 o\u2019clock. We will come back for question time, which I presume will go from 2 o\u2019clock to 3 o\u2019clock or 3.30, and then we have to vote on the Committee stage. We then have to have the third reading, which has to be concluded by 6 o\u2019clock. We do not have a Supplementary Order Paper sitting here from the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EMembers might ask where Labour\u2019s amendments are. Our amendments are sorted, but we cannot put them forward until we know exactly what the Government\u2019s plans are. We have an indication, and I thank Mr Brownlee for that. We asked him for an indication last night, and a short time ago a list arrived of what he agrees and disagrees with in respect of the submitters. But before we can deal to the bill in a proper and professional way we need a Supplementary Order Paper. I say to Mr Brownlee that this is not parliamentary technicalities. For those outside this place who do not know, I tell them that a Supplementary Order Paper is the guts of the Government\u2019s amendments to the legislation\u2014what Mr Brownlee agrees with and will pass, and what he disagrees with and will vote against. We do not even have that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to Mr Brownlee that his approach goes beyond just-in-time management. Normally, Mr Brownlee drops a Supplementary Order Paper 2 or 3 minutes before we are about to debate it, to ensure that the Opposition has virtually no time to see it. We are now in legislative limbo, because Mr Brownlee has not done his job. I do not say so out of any malice or spite. I say to Mr Brownlee that his job, like all our jobs in this place, is to get the legislation right. We are in the Committee stage of the bill and we do not have a Supplementary Order Paper. We do not have the Minister\u2019s intentions as to what he proposes, what the plan is, the detail around the structure of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority, and his formal response to submitters\u2014not just to us. We had input through letters to Mr Brownlee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThis process will fill people will fear if this is how we will march on. Submitters were not allowed to have their say and were not given any notice. They were given 4 hours and 40 minutes to discuss their submissions. The committee was prevented from asking technical questions and receiving technical advice, because officials were not available to us in an advisory capacity and we could not engage with them as advisers. The Minister owes the Committee a detailed explanation. If having less than 24 hours to put together submissions is good enough for submitters\u2014councillors, the Legislation Advisory Committee, and the Law Society, which had less than 24 hours to put together a very diligent submission\u2014then I would have thought that with all the Government\u2019s resources and departments at its disposal working overnight to Mr Brownlee\u2019s timetable, he could have turned up at the start of the Committee stage with his plan and his legislative amendments. It is impossible for the House to respond to legislative amendments that we do not have before us. I pay tribute to Mr Graham and the Greens, who have set out their proposals. We have seen the proposals, and I believe that we have shared many of our amendments with the Green member. But we cannot respond until we have the Government Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI do not know whether this is a portent of things to come. I make the offer to Mr Brownlee, as I have consistently made, that we want to enable the legislation to work. I say to Mr Brownlee that it will go through today, with or without our support. We reserve that right until we see his Supplementary Order Paper, but the bill will go through; the Minister has told us the Government has the numbers. Regardless of our fears and thoughts on the issue, once the bill goes through, Labour members will work diligently to try to ensure that it works, even with the reserverations we have and even with the extreme process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say again to Mr Brownlee that it is not good enough to confuse consultation with delay. One does not impede the other. Twenty-four hours, given that the state of emergency is extended until 16 April, would not have altered or delayed the position for Cantabrians one iota. It would have allowed more expertise and for officials to gather their thoughts and provide assistance to the Government, as we have tried to do. Now, we sit here in legislative limbo as the hours tick away until lunch, and we do not have a Government Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI do not know whether the Government has ground to a halt overnight. I do not know whether it is because of a level of incompetence or fatigue; it could be both. We are willing to cooperate with the Government even at this late stage. Mr Brownlee knows the amendments we wish to make. He has had the letters for a week. Even at this late stage we are still willing to cooperate. I make that genuine offer to him. I would say to the Minister that if this is a deliberate attempt to try to shut us down, or if this is incompetence or mismanagement, he owes it to the people of Canterbury to get on his feet and explain in detail where we are on this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI reiterate one other point. Mr Brownlee can stand and say that any member who raises a criticism is being political. Well, I say to hell with that. I will stand, like Ms Dalziel, Ms Dyson, Mr Burns, and others have, beside our constituents and raise concerns and ideas until I drop. If others want to characterise that, either in the media or in this place, as being political, well, so be it. I will sleep at night with my conscience clear, because our duty on this side of the Chamber is to assist. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ENormally, in the process when a member is upset about something in Parliament, he or she fires off a press statement and has a go. Our modus operandi has been to speak to Mr Brownlee privately, to then write to him if there is no action, and then, if we are deeply concerned, to raise the issue publicly. We have not engaged in piles of parliamentary questions or endless media statements, and we have entered the public arena only when we have been deeply concerned that no action was occurring. We have acted differently. In fact, we have been criticised\u2014I have, and I know Ms Dalziel and others have\u2014for the fact that we have not put the boot in, and that criticism has come from people who are deeply concerned. So I say to Mr Brownlee that he owes us an explanation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u002280e9d2ec886847d5892d2bcffc43f4bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280e9d2ec886847d5892d2bcffc43f4bf\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I want to address the immediate practical issue of the Green Party\u2019s Supplementary Order Papers, and in doing so I want to divide my time. I will talk initially to the issue of community engagement. As I said during the first reading debate on the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill, our concerns revolve around a twofold process: firstly, the lack of adequate community engagement; and, secondly, the extensive powers. I would like to treat our Supplementary Order Papers accordingly. I will focus for the moment only on the community engagement aspect of our concerns. On Supplementary Order Paper 232\u2014members will have it in front of them, I think\u2014we have two amendments: one to clause 6 and one to clause 7. On Supplementary Order Paper 235 we have an amendment to clause 20, and I will address that later, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EWith regard to Supplementary Order Paper 232, we propose to insert the following words into clause 6(2): \u201Cand broadly representative of communities and organisations in Christchurch\u201D. Those words would come after the words \u201Csuitably qualified\u201D in the provision as it stands. We submit that amendment because we believe that the people of Christchurch have a right to a say in how their city should be rebuilt. Currently, the proposed community forum will be hand-picked by the Minister, and, in our view, this compromises its independence. Our amendment to clause 6 also requires that membership of it be approved by the House of Representatives. In a similar vein, our amendment to clause 7 would add the following subclause after subclause (2): \u201CThe Minister and the chief executive must have regard to any advice that they are given by the cross-party group.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EIn putting forward those Supplementary Order Papers we have special regard to some of the comments by a number of recognised lawyers throughout the land\u2014constitutional lawyers and others. Let me quote, if I may, from one, Dean Knight, who says the following\u2014and I remind members that this is not the Green Party speaking; I am quoting a recognised legal authority. I quote Mr Knight: \u201CI acknowledge the gravity of the task facing Christchurch and other districts. The recovery and rebuilding project is a massive one, one that is probably beyond the capacity of present local authorities and other agencies. I accept therefore that central government involvement is essential. However, I question the top-down, rather than bottom-up, model that has been adopted. \u2026 The legislative scheme does not build in the usual elements of local democracy and community participation that is traditionally seen and expected in legislation dealing with town planning and management of local resources.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EHe further says: \u201CThe predominant thinking nowadays is that\u2019\u2019\u2014and this is in rebuttal to the comments that the international experience is that recovery delayed is recovery denied, and that therefore we have to have a timely and expedited recovery. Our understanding of the international experience is that if it not the reverse it is at least balanced by the requirement that there be adequate community engagement, because if we need a timely recovery we also need a legitimate recovery. So I appeal to the Minister and to the Government to have regard to balancing expedition of the recovery and rebuild with the legitimacy from community engagement. I know that the phraseology is there in the Act as it stands; it is a matter how it is enacted and how we observe it once this bill passes. Dean Knight observes that: \u201CThe predominant thinking nowadays is that town planning or resource management decisions ought to be made at the local level, in a way that allows the affected communities to have their say in their development. It recognises that they will be best-placed to assess the propriety of the plans and generally enhances the legitimacy of the measures adopted. It is also consistent with the principle of subsidiarity, which says that decisions ought to be made at the lowest possible level within the governmental framework.\u201D Further, he says: \u201CIn practical terms, a community-centred model would charge the local authorities themselves with developing the overarching recovery strategy\u2014without the need for ministerial sign-off. CERA would still have a role in assisting local authorities. It could operate as a portal through which governmental assistance could be provided to support these efforts, through cooption of staff to assist the local authorities \u2026 and to coordinate central government assistance necessary to convert that vision into action.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThat is the philosophy on which the Green Party rests this particular Supplementary Order Paper. There is a need for community engagement not only to be present in the Act but also to be the dominant theme running through the Act, and for decision making that is to be made by the nation as a whole through the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority, the Government, and the Christchurch City Council to be reflective of community input. So I commend our Supplementary Order Paper relating to clauses 6 and 7 to the Committee. I look forward to the response of the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e802bf347dd547139f2c7395396e1fc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e802bf347dd547139f2c7395396e1fc1\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I seek some clarification. We are in a very difficult situation here, and I wonder whether we could consider invoking Standing Order 173 to suspend the Committee of the whole House. We do not have the Government\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper. It has not been tabled. The Chair quite rightly said we are running ahead of time, but it has now been 25 minutes and we still do not have the Supplementary Order Paper on the Table. There has been some legitimate debate from members about amendments, but we are in a very strange situation without the Supplementary Order Paper before us. I wonder whether we should consider\u2014without invoking disorder\u2014suspending the Committee of the whole House. We think the Opposition is placed in a grave situation. I ask for your clarification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u002213bd0b77471840598cd78ada5a8ceeec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213bd0b77471840598cd78ada5a8ceeec\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E In reference to the particular situation, I would like to add my comments. We are having a wide-ranging debate in the Committee stage, with no limit on what can be discussed. The Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill is on the Table before us, and we can discuss what was raised at the Local Government and Environment Committee. We have an indication from members during this Committee stage of what they agree with and what they do not agree with. As is able to happen at any time, a Supplementary Order Paper can be tabled at any stage of Committee without, in fact, the whole Committee having had the opportunity to discuss it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022233f673bb7e84190a97932d6d4ec0352\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022233f673bb7e84190a97932d6d4ec0352\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I want to preface my comments by giving some context to my colleague\u2019s request. There is no delay by the Opposition. The delay here is that the Government has not produced the critical document that is needed for us to proceed. There is no attempt from Labour members to delay proceedings. If the document arrives, we are back on deck. I will raise an issue that the Government whip raised. Yes, we do have an informal document that has no parliamentary standing that gives an indication. It states \u201Cagreed\u201D and \u201Cnoted\u201D\u2014and nobody knows what \u201Cnoted\u201D actually means\u2014but it has no official standing. In order for the document to proceed to the Committee stage, the Government must produce its amendments to the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill. We have had commitments on this, and I think it would be illogical and absurd if this debate moved ahead to the point where we were debating Opposition amendments but we were not aware of what the Government proposed to do. I want to say, for those in the press gallery and others, that there has been no attempt by Labour members at any point to delay this bill. Our problem is that we are meant to be debating the Government Supplementary Order Paper and its associated amendments from us, and we have difficulty doing so when it does not exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3a7b6681f954c5d9470e326b31f100e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: You have made some fair points there, and I invite the Minister to say a few words.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022a41816b5631342d689d0dcf174ed677f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a41816b5631342d689d0dcf174ed677f\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E The document that the member refers to makes it very clear what the Government is going to put into the Supplementary Order Paper, and there are people drafting that Supplementary Order Paper at the present time. But let us not go about the pretence that the Government\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper is essential to the business of this House in dealing with the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill. It is essential that the House look at the aspects of any Supplementary Order Paper once it is laid on the Table. But if the Opposition wants to suspend the debate, then we will simply withdraw the Supplementary Order Paper offer and carry on with the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ee4adaea7a74ba59503d2db025eec32\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Chairperson\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdc466acb7224283897d6135642b15fe\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. The original point of order was from the junior Opposition whip, who asked that the Committee be suspended because of the absence at this stage of the Government\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper. That cannot happen. The Committee cannot be suspended; it can only report progress. The Minister is the person who can report progress and ask that the Committee sit again presently. That is the Minister\u2019s prerogative. If we go back to Standing Order 173, which the member Steve Chadwick used in the point of order, we see that it states: \u201C(1) The chairperson may temporarily suspend the proceedings of the committee\u2014(a) in the case of any grave disorder arising in committee, or (b) in accordance with a decision of the House or a determination of the Business Committee, or (c) in the event of an emergency situation.\u201D That does not apply. In regard to the tabling of a Supplementary Order Paper\u2014and I hear what the Hon Clayton Cosgrove said\u2014I know that there is some delay, and the Minister has identified that, but it is the Government\u2019s prerogative to table a Supplementary Order Paper at any stage. The Minister identified that it is being worked on. It was agreed at the beginning of the Committee stage that this is a wide-ranging debate on all parts, and there are unlimited calls, which is a departure from the normal process that is adopted. It is an opportunity for all members to participate in a wide-ranging debate, even though we do not have the Supplementary Order Paper. I rule accordingly that the point of order from the junior whip does not stand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00221d801e9e87a5450dbae348137e9445ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d801e9e87a5450dbae348137e9445ba\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. You have made your ruling. It is your ruling. I would just ask for some indulgence and some advice. Standing Order 173 talks about \u201Cgrave disorder\u201D, and, clearly, there is not grave disorder and there will not be grave disorder. The difficulty, I suppose, is that you could characterise disorder in a number of ways. The disorder that we find ourselves in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaa9c6b4b5dd4bde8e7e2b674c5ede12\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, we are not debating what \u201Cgrave disorder\u201D is in respect of Standing Order 173. I have ruled that this debate will continue. We are awaiting the Supplementary Order Paper. Everyone is awaiting it. That does not stop the proceedings of the Committee stage, and we are moving forward on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00229989bf919e9548c087a1357c29bbf382\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229989bf919e9548c087a1357c29bbf382\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e999eaba63f4f33ba83354bf96c029a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a new point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022463bd1e97806484c9a4399bd947b070b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: It is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f765307273234f12be1922d46f725aae\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: It needs to be; otherwise you are trifling with the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f890df69b42e49e19521572c64f35420\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I will not trifle with the Chair. This is a matter of critical importance. There is no more important piece of legislation that I can recall. The difficulty we are in is this. You are right: proceedings can proceed. The difficulty is that we are in a situation that is slightly illogical. Yes, it is a wide-ranging debate, but I cannot recall a time\u2014certainly not in my time, but there are people here who have been here for longer than I\u2014when we have had a Committee stage like this. The central point of the Committee stage is to debate the Government\u2019s changes to the legislation. We are now almost 45 minutes in, and we do not have the ability to do our job, which is to scrutinise those changes. I say to you that this is an illogical situation. I appeal to your good nature and your good sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221476b6dab4b94afeb1b8ad6b088fe44c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I hear the member. There is nothing to stop the continuation of the debate on the bill, because the bill is before us. When the Supplementary Order Paper is lodged, that is a matter for individual debates on certain aspects of what the Supplementary Order Paper may contain. That does not interfere with the process of the Committee stage of the bill. On that basis we are continuing. [Interruption] I am not taking any more points on this. We are moving on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00223faf32ab43414835a708b097027831df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223faf32ab43414835a708b097027831df\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf7827ff7de64e118596b2774b9aa379\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: If this is not a new point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e27fcaae9239419f80b6d1c5ec214313\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I ask through you, then, Mr Chairperson, whether the Minister could please, out of courtesy, contact whomever he needs to and advise us approximately when the Supplementary Order Paper will be available. I raise this because at 1 o\u2019clock, as you know, we will have to stop for the luncheon adjournment. When we come back after question time there is likely to be about half an hour before the agreed time to proceed to the third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5d6a992abb843ef8b36b860e70698b9\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: You have asked for the Minister to respond to that question. I will ask the Hon Gerry Brownlee to comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002211283e9786e346d599066a3e15461602\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211283e9786e346d599066a3e15461602\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E I think, with all due respect to the concerns that are being raised by the member Clayton Cosgrove, that nothing will be in the Supplementary Order Paper that is not in the bill, other than the rewritten compensation clause, which he knows was part of a discussion at a committee last evening. The amendments are simple, they are straightforward, and there is no attempt to come up with anything that is outside what is stated in the document I have here. Given the fact that officials worked through until the late hours of this morning putting this document together and checking it as they went, with opinion from the Government, it is outrageous to suggest that they should be able to take a 21-page document\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022847ea3934df74993ab5bfd59f49d77f0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294b60854c8ff4f2f822cf86a2b39278d\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chairperson, you asked me to explain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022525b85d7cf2c44258bbabf056c9ccc7c\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, you are getting into debating points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b582785692749128808d50c26fd599d\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am not; I am explaining what is happening, because we have had a lot\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022768b63880afa4021b8c541fbdd626bd6\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the Minister to sit down. The question was about the timing of this. We are now getting into debating the merits of the points. This is not a debate; this is a point of order. The Minister explained the situation and what is happening; we have taken that that is what the position is, and that is where we will leave it. We are moving on with the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002203b8e3ad30544e96acdf4e6a4c1711ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203b8e3ad30544e96acdf4e6a4c1711ba\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I had asked a question, and I thank you for facilitating that. The question was whether the Minister could give us an indication of the timing, given that we will have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216efa08ff83f42b1909bcb4bb9f3c215\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, you cannot demand a response to that. The Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bd532b47fc84eabb9d433dbf96474d2\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I am asking; I am not demanding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bfb99b984bd4ca6b805c97130faf998\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No. The Minister had indicated the process. You cannot demand or ask when the Supplementary Order Paper will be tabled. He has given a very clear indication of what the process is, and that is where we are leaving it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d861b256307e4ede9d444a56ef910516\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d861b256307e4ede9d444a56ef910516\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to ask the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery to reflect on the purpose clause of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill. I want him to look at clause 3(b), and I want to make this point to him. I know that the Minister will have to accept that I have tried to engage with him on issues of community participation right from the outset. I tabled a letter that I wrote to him on 28 September last year, and his reply on 24 December suggested that we had reached some meeting of the minds about how important community engagement was. Yet I read in the bill that one of its purposes, in clause 3(b), is \u201Cto enable community participation in the planning of the recovery of affected communities without impeding a focused, timely, and expedited recovery:\u201D. But therein lies the problem. The problem is that the Minister does not understand what the Waimakariri District Council told us at the Local Government and Environment Committee yesterday, which was that community participation in its recovery actually promotes \u201Ca focused, timely, and expedited recovery\u201D. It does not impede it. The use of the negative expression, \u201Cwithout impeding\u201D, implies that community participation could impede recovery, when in fact it could promote it. In fact, it will promote it, but what will impede progress for our communities\u2019 recovery is the failure to acknowledge the essential, critical role that our communities have in their recovery. The purposes of the Act include community participation only in the planning of the recovery, which is nonsense. Of course communities have to be involved in the planning, but they have to be involved in the delivery as well. Otherwise we will not have meaningful engagement. That is what I want this debate to be about\u2014not just about up and down, backwards and forwards, batting to and fro. I would like meaningful engagement with the Minister. I have tried to engage in that right from the very outset, and I have found on instances that we, I thought, reached a meeting of the minds, particularly on this issue. Yet I read this bill with great disappointment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Minister stated that anyone who disagreed with the proposal that is before us was somehow holding up progress. Well, I do not want that to be the implication, and I am glad that the Minister is shaking his head because he is suggesting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb794d2dfb924b0f9f4a20089baaf6cc\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Where did I say it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf17a7d276544e169fa27ee621a9a87c\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Minister used the expression earlier on that if we were in any way holding people back, we were not thinking about the people who were living in the damaged houses and on the damaged streets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f25653dde54464987d1b6e5d75e7ef9\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc71a57be2f648d5ace64c4505a6b1f9\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I heard the member say that, because I was thinking that he was referring to me. The Minister was talking about my neighbours. But this is the issue, and this is the lesson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EWhen the Minister put out the statement about what the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority was going to be, he talked about the fact that the Government had looked very carefully at what had happened overseas. The Government quoted the particular disasters that this authority was having reference to. It said that it had \u201Clooked at international experience of recovery from natural disasters, including Cyclone Tracey \u2026 Hurricane Katrina \u2026 Black Sunday bushfires \u2026 and Floods, Queensland, Australia, 2011.\u201D I find it interesting that the Minister\u2019s reference to when he started looking at recovery included something that had happened in 2011, because the need for recovery planning was actually derived from the first earthquake, in 2010, and was exacerbated by the second earthquake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ENobody disagrees that the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Commission was put in place to do the regional coordination that would normally have been done under the Ministry of Civil Defence and Emergency Management regime. We understand that the commission would have required additional powers in order to take over the role that is now placed with this Government department, the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority. This is where I think the Minister has gone wrong. He has not studied any of those examples, because all of those examples have arms-length Crown entities, which are separate from the Government. They are not Government departments. They are separate from, but connected to, the Government, with a board sitting between the political animal that is the Government and the organisation that has to develop the recovery model.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EPeople are saying that there is a need for an organisational culture, and that is why we on this side of the Chamber are saying that we will make this work\u2014because it has to work. There is no alternative. But the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority is not the structure we would have chosen, because the organisational culture we require has to translate the intention into reality\u2014that is, there has to be an understanding of, and a commitment to, shaping the recovery process as a process that engages and empowers local communities. I think that the words \u201Cengagement\u201D and \u201Cempowerment\u201D are fundamental to understanding any of the lessons that are learnt from any of those natural disasters. So when we take that, we have to build an organisational culture that translates that into reality, which I believe, and the Minister has been advised, is a challenge of gargantuan proportions, given the tendency to think that minimal consultation can substitute for authentic community engagement. I know that that advice has gone to Government members, and they have to think about what it means. A commitment to authentic, participatory recovery involves significant resource and timing implications that need to be explicitly recognised. That is why there is an imperative about this engagement process, and participation of the community has to be at its heart. This is where I think the Minister, again, misunderstands the lesson of Hurricane Katrina\u2014and I made this point the day before yesterday\u2014that we need to reconcile the need to marshal the authority of the State and the entrepreneurship of the market to rebuild quickly. They are important and we have to take that into consideration. Yes, this organisational structure will do that, but there is an organisational structure that would do it better. But that is by the by; we cannot debate that now, because the structure was put in place 2 weeks ago. But the balancing requirement with that is the necessity to plan in an inclusive, deliberative, innovative, and transformative manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EOne of the issues that came out of Hurricane Katrina was the fact that unless we identify what was called the missing story in the Katrina debacle, and unless we look at the historic choices that were made and address those\u2014physical development, public risk, community resilience, and sustainability\u2014the lesson we learn is that the recovery process is to see pre-event vulnerability simply re-entrenched, and therefore the opportunity to reduce disaster risk is lost. Who knows about what those pre-event vulnerabilities are? It is the community itself that knows the answer to that question, and unless communities are at the heart of this process, there will be a serious risk that we will not see the benefits of the deliberative, innovative, and transformative processes we are encouraged to adopt through Hurricane Katrina\u2019s mistakes. We need to lock those into the legislation, and I have some amendments that I will be putting forward in the House that I hope the Government will look at. They will bring that to the fore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Government has also talked about the community forum as its representation of the importance of engagement with local community interests through the recovery process, referencing international experience. Can I say that a hand-picked group of people does not meet international best practice, at all; in fact, it runs the serious risk that the Government will re-entrench all of the pre-existing problems we have. If the Minister seriously looks at the experience of Hurricane Katrina, he will see that it was discovered that the vulnerable populations in New Orleans had all of their interests superseded by those who already had the power, the status, and the ability to engage with the Government at every level. That is the problem. Unless the Minister understands that he has to enable and empower the communities that have those pre-existing vulnerabilities, then he himself will be responsible for what occurs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EAll of the international literature tells us that recovery is an opportunity for reconciliation, restoration, and renewal, and that it is not just a rebuilding project. The literature tells us that practical, political, and moral challenges are required to be balanced with deliberation and speed through leadership and collaboration, and it must involve local people because it is their recovery. There is one expression that I have learnt from reading the literature: \u201CThe wisdom of the community always exceeds the knowledge of the experts.\u201D I think we need to learn that lesson, and we need to learn it fast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u002228e6f0f393604de39af43dab94c50960\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228e6f0f393604de39af43dab94c50960\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great pleasure to rise and speak on this exceptionally important bill, the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill. I had the pleasure to be a member of the parliamentary committee that journeyed to Christchurch yesterday to hear evidence and worked into the night last night to progress this legislation. We took a very early morning flight, and we arrived in Christchurch with time up our sleeves before our hearings began at Addington Raceway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EAs members of the Local Government and Environment Committee, we took time to make ourselves aware of the devastation in the central business district. Many of us had spent only a little bit of time in Christchurch before, at the very moving memorial service, and at that stage we saw the devastation in the eastern suburbs. Therefore, we took the opportunity to see some of the devastation visited upon the central business district. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EIt was exceptionally sobering to see Colombo Street, where for a whole block the fa\u00E7ade of shops along one side had been completely torn off, exposing the sobering reminders of domestic life within\u2014tables set, chairs around, and pictures on the wall\u2014untouched for some months. In the distance we could see the lean on the Hotel Grand Chancellor. In other parts of the city we saw the old and much-loved Stone Chamber, which was surrounded by a network of fallen scaffolding where the repairs that had been undertaken after the effects of earlier quakes had suffered and the whole fa\u00E7ade had tumbled down. It certainly underlined the need for this legislation, the need for strong governance, and the need for a united and effective response to this long-term tragedy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the select committee process and the very able chairmanship of Chris Auchinvole. As Charles Chauvel has attested, it was a challenge, and Chris did an exceptional job. I acknowledge Kennedy Graham, whose contribution was measured, considered, and very positive to the end result, and, of course, the submitters. I also want the Government to give itself, and the Minister, a pat on the back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EThe Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery, the Hon Gerry Brownlee, has taken the recommendations on board, the select committee members have listened, and we have here a huge number of recommendations that the Government has taken on board from the hearing of evidence. It is interesting that we have had a certain amount of vituperation from the Opposition benches because a Supplementary Order Paper has yet to be tabled. The reason it is yet to be tabled is, of course, that the Government has been listening to the evidence and to the debates within the select committee, where there has been a certain amount of banter and passionate evidence. The Government has listened to that and taken those things on board. I want to make that point and to come back to some of the other points raised shortly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EWe realise that this bill is crucial. It is crucial because it is setting out appropriate measures to enable the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery and/or the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority to facilitate and direct, if necessary, Greater Christchurch and its communities to respond to, and recover from, the impact of the Canterbury earthquake. This bill is founded on, and recognises, the need for community participation. That is something that a number of submitters commented on, as have a number of speakers in the Chamber today, and if I get a chance to speak later in the debate I will come back to that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EWe want community involvement in the decision-making process, but we must balance that against the need for a timely and coordinated recovery process. We need strong governance and leadership for the rebuilding and recovery of the Greater Christchurch area, for the benefit of all those living there and for all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003ESome concern has been expressed about the location of powers regarding the approval of the recovery strategy and the recovery plans. There was some concern that those powers should not be held by Ministers but be implemented by local government structure. We did not agree with this. We believe a recovery process is beyond the capability of current institutions and that new institutional arrangements with specific powers are required. There will be opportunities for significant community participation in the recovery plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EA submitter expressed some concern, which was taken on board and looked at carefully, that the purpose provision was too wide and that it preconditions the exercise of executive and coercive powers. We do not agree with this. We do not think it is necessary to outline criteria for when and why the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority or the Minister can exercise powers. Significant checks and balances have been built into the legislation to ensure that powers are exercised only in accordance with the purpose of the legislation, and only if reasonably necessary. Also, the exercise of a statutory power can be subject to judicial review. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EThe bill also contains other significant protections. Some of these are that the power to require information can be used only when the information can be provided without unreasonable difficulty or expense. Before disseminating information, the chief executive must consider the privacy principles under the Privacy Act and the need to protect confidential and commercially sensitive information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EThe person exercising the power of entry must produce evidence of authorisation and, where practicable, this power must be exercised at a reasonable time and prior notice of entry must be given. Before exercising a survey power the chief executive must consult the Surveyor-General, and, where there is a dispute, a mechanism will be put into place whereby landowners can disagree with the definition process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003EIn undertaking building works a notice is required to be served on owners, occupiers, and other persons with an interest in the land. The exercise of powers of direction and step-in rights regarding councils and council organisations does not include the ability to collect rates or to take any other action or powers affecting rates. There are many other checks and balances but I will finish at this point. I commend the bill to the Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022d752833ae3ac424d80802b68de77f22b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d752833ae3ac424d80802b68de77f22b\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E It was interesting to hear the member opposite Cam Calder talk about what was the first visit to Christchurch for him, and maybe for some other members of the select committee, since the 22 February quake, and to hear from him how different it is to see, even if one has seen it on television and in the newspaper, the scale of destruction that has been wreaked on our city by that awful disaster. But I have to say that living in Christchurch throughout the last 7 weeks, and, indeed, over the last 7 months, is another layer of experience. That is why I took great exception to the comments made by Louise Upston earlier, about Opposition members supposedly engaging in petty politics in respect of this bill and these issues. If it is petty to advocate for my constituents who have no running water, who in many instances have no toilets, and who have broken homes, then I plead guilty to being petty. If it is political to advocate for businesses that have faced enormous frustration in the Christchurch central business district to get access to their premises so that they can get hard drives and stock, and have some hope of continuing their businesses and keeping people in jobs, then I plead guilty to being petty. If it is petty to say that thousands of Cantabrians will be cold this winter because they will not have new heating units installed, or they will not have insulation installed to try to make sure they get through winter without getting sick and ill, then I will plead guilty to being political and petty. If it is petty or political to say that it is not satisfactory the way the deputy mayor of the city council of my city learnt about the bill that will for 5 years take control of the city of Christchurch, with huge impact on the city council and every other organisation, institution, and person across Christchurch, then I am guilty of being petty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EBut, along with my colleagues, I have been active and I have stepped in to assist thousands of constituents who have been affected by the quakes. I acknowledge that that has been the case across the Chamber. I am not trying to be petty and political about it. I have worked with my political opponent opposite, acknowledged her in meetings I have chaired, and given her speaking rights. If that is being petty and political, I am guilty as charged. It is absolutely critical that we take every opportunity, in the very short time frame that this bill provides, to get it right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EOur experience, and the experience of this Parliament, is that rushed legislation is poor legislation. Almost inevitably, rushed legislation requires some return to Parliament to make amendments and to correct faults that were there and not seen as the rush went through. That it is why it is so important we maximise the opportunities of the select committee, and that submitters to the select committee are actually given drafts of the bill\u2014not one lawyer at the Christchurch City Council, but councillors who turned out yesterday and spent nearly half the day sitting and waiting to make their submission and hearing other submissions: councillors Yani Johanson, Helen Broughton, the deputy mayor Ngaire Button, Glenn Livingstone, Chrissie Williams, and community board member Paul McMahon. They gave up their time, they wanted to be there representing their constituencies, they wanted to know how this bill would impact upon them, but they were reduced to having to ring my colleague Clayton Cosgrove and beg for the bill to be put on the parliamentary website so they could actually see what was intended for the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority and what it meant for them as councillors and community board members. That is not acceptable, and we have to point that out. If that is being petty, I will plead guilty to that. The submitters learnt of the bill only from media and other sources. That is not appropriate. If members want to talk about pettiness within the select committee, then I think members opposite might need to look at one of their own members, who caused the chair some frustration through the course of the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EWe are now in the Committee stage and we still have no Government Supplementary Order Paper, which was indicated to us by a summary of the submissions in the Government\u2019s response as being quite extensive. That is not satisfactory. That is not satisfactory when wide changes are being signalled. We need to know precisely what the Government is intending so we can avoid the risks that are there through rushed legislation. We need to maximise the chance for members of this House to give scrutiny to those Supplementary Order Papers and ensure they are going to do the best thing for our city, and to make sure we actually have the best chance for real, genuine, community engagement in the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI shall talk about that just for a moment. In Marlborough about 10 years ago, as editor of the local paper, I saw a very real issue around the fact that that province had the lowest wage rates in the country. I looked for a model, a template, to see what I could do to try to get the community behind an initiative that ended up forming the Marlborough Economic Development Trust. I got a book just printed from an American academic called Dr Michael Briand. It was a summary of how the most successful communities in the United States had rebuilt themselves and had re-engineered themselves to take up economic and other opportunities. The first and overriding principle of that book, and I think of any community engagement process, was inclusion. If people do not feel a part of a process, they will not buy into it, they will not accept its outcomes, they will be cynical about it, and no matter how much top-down soothing and stroking is done, they will not buy into the process. That is why it is so important for the Minister to acknowledge that in the processes he is putting in place under his community forum he will allow genuine public engagement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EIt is not something that anyone wants to drag their heels on; nobody wants to see that, but we must have a process that allows engagement with those with a real, genuine commitment\u2014and there are many people across Christchurch with a passionate commitment to their city who want to be involved. Businesses have had much heartache already over the last 7 weeks in terms of access. They must be represented on that panel in number. People with an interest in the heritage of our city want to be involved. They are not advocating to save every building\u2014that is gone. I can speak from personal experience on this. My electorate office lost its entire front on 22 February, in 22 seconds. I will not even dream of asking for any rescue of that building. I will not even dream of asking people to go into that building and rescue goods out of it. I acknowledge that that building is gone; it is history. But we need to maintain the maximum amount of our infrastructure in Christchurch because we will not be able to rebuild rapidly if we have every second building knocked over. We must keep a viable infrastructure\u2014be it heritage or not\u2014repair it, strengthen it, and put it back in service as soon as possible. That will assist the recovery of our city, because if we only have a central business district full of cranes we will have green space across it for a generation and that will not assist those businesses that want to get back into business and are able to restart relatively quickly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI am immensely proud and supportive of the initiative from inner-city businesses that want to get some sense of life under way by show weekend at the beginning of November. That is a fantastic time frame, but it will require the demolition\u2014yes\u2014of those buildings that cannot be saved, but I would suggest the propping up of some buildings that can be saved, and the restoration and repair of other buildings that need to be saved. We need people who can advocate on those things, who can have a word in the Minister\u2019s ear, who can sit at that forum, and who can say to him that these are things that need to be taken on board. Also, I think, represented on that forum there need to be members of the community boards that dot themselves across the city of Christchurch. It is an underused forum at the moment but it has deep connective roots into the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003ECanCERN has sprung up in the last 6 or 7 months. It has networks right the way across just about all of the affected communities. It should be part of that forum, as well. Those affected communities not represented by CanCERN deserve to have their voices also heard at that forum. We should be seeing representatives of the councils on the forum, as well. We should also see members of the education and health communities there. They are hugely affected by the quake. We have dozens of schools still not fully operative. We have damage to our major hospital site and we have some damage at Princess Margaret Hospital. Those voices must be heard as we come through. There will be major public health risks in the months that follow from the quake, in terms of many thousands of damaged homes. Many homes will be damp, people will be overcrowded in many instances; the health voice must be represented. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI want to see the Supplementary Order Paper to see whether there is any indication in it of what the processes are going to be in respect of the real opportunities the Minister might provide for community engagement, and for community participation, so we are assured that Christchurch\u2019s voices will be heard as we all engage rapidly in the recovery of our city. Everybody wants to see it move quickly. Everybody wants to have their sector represented through a voice for them, and we need to see the Supplementary Order Paper, I say to the Minister, as soon as possible, so we can all be assured that it contains some of the changes we are advocating for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u0022670f591eba2243e6888dd5c411dc581e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022670f591eba2243e6888dd5c411dc581e\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to make a contribution in this Committee stage on the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill to push back on what I keep hearing from members on the other side of the Chamber. Mr Chauvel said there was no need to be doing this in urgency. Mr Burns, the speaker who has just resumed his seat, was pushing back on the concept of rushed legislation, implying somehow that we should be taking this much more slowly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022583f66d74e30424a83377b035f8f1c26\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, \u201Cconsidered\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239eb3105843b41c282a1e2bc7fee7dee\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: That is what they said. No, no, that is what they said, I say to Ms Dalziel. I am not sure how Brendon Burns can, in the same contribution, talk about the very valid fear we all have about people being out of their houses and facing winter with no heating, yet say we should not be rushing this. I do not know where Mr Chauvel is coming from when he says that this bill does not deserve urgency. It does deserve urgency, and the way we have developed and delivered this legislation is exactly what needed to happen, and I commend the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery for doing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThis final draft of the legislation was approved, as I understand it, through the Cabinet process only on Monday, and it was in this House and released on Tuesday. That is when I first saw it; that is when everyone first saw it. As someone living in Canterbury, living with this and dealing with people\u2014as I know that all Canterbury MPs are\u2014I say that this is urgent. This is urgent and there is a rush. I cannot accept anybody saying we should slow down. We should not slow down. We need to do this as well as we can, but as quickly as we can. I am no apologist for getting this done quickly. On the contrary, we have to do it fast. We have to move fast, and for anybody to stand in this Chamber and say it is not urgent is a complete insult to the people of Canterbury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to push back on is the comment we have heard a couple of times now from the other side of the Chamber about comments made at the Local Government and Environment Committee by the Christchurch City Council when they saw the final copy of this bill. I have no doubt they are right, as to when they saw the final version of the bill. But let us not confuse that with the suggestion they were not involved in discussing the concept and the framework from the outset\u2014they were; they absolutely were. In fact, the first thing the deputy mayor said at the select committee was that we had a council commitment, an acceptance, and an agreement to the framework and to the concept. Council members may not have seen the final version of the bill before Tuesday\u2014neither did I\u2014but every one of those organisations has been involved in these discussions from the outset. I do not think the Minister could have done more to talk with them along the way, as this process developed, without holding it up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003ETo suggest that councillors first heard of the bill at 4 o\u2019clock on Tuesday is a complete nonsense. They have been involved, as Selwyn District Council, Waimakariri District Council, Environment Canterbury, and Ng\u0101i Tahu have acknowledged they have, so let us not buy into this suggestion that Christchurch City Council did not know about the bill until late on Tuesday. That is a nonsense. It has been involved from the outset. It has bought into it and supported it, and the deputy mayor confirmed that as a council it supports the concept, and has done so all the way through. I think that needs to be made very clear and put on the record. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI will not accept that there is any way to approach this matter except as a matter of urgency. We have to get it right, and the mere fact that the Minister and his officials have been working through the night to keep making sure that anything that is picked up is fixed is commendable. Far from not doing his job, he is doing his job for the people of Canterbury to the utmost of his ability, and absolutely to the level we require. He is getting this done quickly, but he has ensured that any person who makes a sensible suggestion is having it fed through into the legislation, right up to the last minute. I think that should be commended, and this Committee should be supporting it. Rather than looking for excuses to slow down this process, members should be doing what they say they will do, which is to get in behind it and make sure it works. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EIf we want to know what playing politics will look like, it will look like sitting on the sidelines and throwing stones, from day one. Anybody who will do that is not part of the solution; they are looking for a way to make this Government look bad. I know that the people of Canterbury know that this Government is working hard to get their problems fixed as a matter of urgency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022131093c296fa47f19e968aa29c26bd96\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: You should be ashamed of yourself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223acc4a1b71ba48f4b5530088a9ac384f\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I am not ashamed of myself, I say to Ms Dalziel, because I want to see this dealt with as a matter of urgency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0c095ce02b24666a9057e963cf4ba5a\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: That is outrageous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222edb0f0750e64993a54dd268fdb3261e\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: What, is it outrageous to suggest we deal with this urgently? That is a nonsense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290d029902cca45beb611773b64bcf660\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: How dare you? I have written to every Minister on the Cabinet Committee with decent, sensible suggestions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aab51893eba047a185027a8f78521e72\u0022\u003EAMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I have worked with this Minister on my issues from my constituents, and they have been dealt with every time. I do not need to go to the media. I deal with it, I work with the Minister, and I work hard for my constituents, and I will continue to do so as a matter of urgency, because this is urgent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022005f132a973a4092a01a494e7041d16a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022005f132a973a4092a01a494e7041d16a\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afcb4af1d5c841debffc51e6bb4eeacf\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, a soothing influence! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c63cd61641e4c14a43a51cb56ee746d\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM\u003C/span\u003E: A moment\u2019s pause. I want to pick up an issue I raised earlier\u2014and so did Brendon Burns, who has just been maligned, and others. It pertains to community engagement. I will make just one further point on community engagement, and I wish to then address the issue of powers as well. On the issue of community engagement the Green Party has a further Supplementary Order Paper to offer. It is Supplementary Order Paper 235, and it would address clause 20(3), which currently reads: \u201CNeither the Minister nor any responsible entity has a duty under this Act to consult any person about the development of a Recovery Plan, except as provided under this section or in section 17.\u201D That is one example of the difference, I think, between the Government and the Green Party in its perception of the philosophical thrust of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill. The Government, in weighing the so-called balance between an expedited, rapid recovery and community engagement, opts for the former. The Green Party maintains that the balance is not struck in the bill and that there should be a greater involvement of the community, to balance that expedited recovery without unnecessarily delaying it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EI ask why the Minister has to have a complete escape clause that excludes him from any duty to consult with any person, other than through clause 17. We look to clause 17 and find that it pertains only to the recovery of the central business district\u2014just the central business district of Christchurch, not elsewhere. In consulting on that we look at clause 17(5) and find that it covers the process for the development of the recovery plan. Of course, the Minister is obliged to consult with the Christchurch City Council, Environment Canterbury, Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu, and others, and, indeed, the Christchurch City Council takes the lead. But where is the community engagement in that? Clause 17(5) states: \u201CThe process for the development of the proposed Recovery Plan for the CBD must include 1 or more public hearings, as determined by the Christchurch City Council, at which members of the public may appear and be heard.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ESetting aside\u2014well, not setting aside\u2014the drafting issue of whether we can have a mandatory \u201Cmust include\u201D provision that stipulates \u201Ceither/or\u201D, which does not, I think, make drafting sense, the substantive issue is that there is to be only one public hearing. Under clause 20(3) the Minister has a duty to consult on the recovery plan only in the context of one public hearing pertaining to the central business district. That is demonstrably insufficient, and that is why we are proposing that clause 20(3) be deleted and replaced with the words \u201CThe Minister and the responsible entities have an obligation to consult affected communities.\u201D That imposes an obligation on the Minister to ensure that all affected communities are involved in the recovery plan. Clause 17(5) states that the process \u201Cmust include 1 or more public hearings\u201D, but it should perhaps be \u201Cmust include a series of at least 4 public hearings.\u201D We commend Supplementary Order Paper 235 on public engagement, pertaining to clause 20, to the Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed5501e3f62b484e9e34786c7bb6a34b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed5501e3f62b484e9e34786c7bb6a34b\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E I bring the Committee\u2019s attention back to one of the statements made in the explanatory note of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill. It states: \u201CThe Bill is founded on the need for community participation in decision-making processes while balancing this against the need for a timely and coordinated recovery process.\u201D It was interesting to hear Opposition members suggesting that some of the significant parties received the bill with very little notice. Some of the submitters whom we had in front of us commented on the fact that they were pleased to see the significant improvements in the final version of the bill as opposed to earlier versions that they had seen. Members opposite cannot have it both ways. They cannot say there has been no involvement in the bill and people have only just seen it for the first time, yet hear submitters comment that, in particular, the area where they notice improvement is in the strengthening of the provisions on involving the community in decision making. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI want to draw the Committee\u2019s attention to further aspects of the bill highlighted in the explanatory note, particularly about the long-term recovery strategy that will be developed by the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority in collaboration with key stakeholders. I think it is fantastic to have the word \u201Ccollaboration\u201D stated so early in the bill, so it is very clear that the community and key stakeholders will be involved in the creation of that very important, overarching, long-term recovery strategy. We heard from submitters, particularly Ng\u0101i Tahu, that they could see that by acting in good faith with the Government there was a real opportunity for partnership in this dialogue during the creation of very important documents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EOne of the things that disturbed me a little was the fact that there seemed to be a lack of awareness among Labour members about the notification requirements of the long-term strategy, so I thought it might be worth drawing their attention to that provision in the bill. It is stated in clause 13, which talks specifically about it and is entitled \u201CPublic notification of draft Recovery Strategy.\u201D It states: \u201CThe chief executive must ensure that a draft Recovery Strategy is publicly notified.\u201D If that is not a process of direct dialogue with the members of the community and key stakeholders, whereby any member of the public will have the opportunity to make written comments on the strategy, I am not quite sure what would be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EOne of the earlier speakers talked a lot about the community forum, and I think the provisions on the forum are a really important part of this bill, in terms of assisting that very important decision-making process. I do not think anyone disagrees that the community has the needs of Christchurch and Canterbury at heart. They know it that because they live it and breathe it. That is why it is very important that this will be\u2014and I will use that word again, for the sake of the Opposition\u2014a collaborative process. I commend the Minister for being so upfront, and blatantly putting the words \u201Ccommunity involvement\u201D, \u201Ccommunity forum\u201D, and \u201Ccollaboration\u201D all throughout this bill. I think that is a fantastic step forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EWe recognise the fact that this is extraordinary legislation; I hope that in my time as a member of Parliament we never have the need to do legislation like this again. But also we recognise that this Government is making tough decisions in tough times. It is fantastic to see the support of the majority of the Committee is behind this bill, although unfortunately some of the people who are listening to this debate might not actually appreciate that fact, given some of the negativity of the comments from the Opposition members. This Government is listening to the community. It is listening to the submitters and the evidence they raised with us. It is taking action right now\u2014right at this very minute\u2014to make changes in order to make sure that this legislation is lasting and delivers the results for Christchurch and Canterbury that it needs to deliver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022f756716bfac14ed5a50e56b6a999bd67\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f756716bfac14ed5a50e56b6a999bd67\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E First I restate that the contents of the Government\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper was put together in a document that was provided to members before the House sat this morning. The process that we have gone through over the last couple of days is one that the Opposition asked for and the Government agreed to. I think we are heading towards some regret over that. Although the information that came through from submitters in many parts was valid and useful, and we have agreed to those things, it took until the very early hours of this morning\u2014some time after 4 a.m.\u2014for this particular bit of work to come together. It then needed further consideration before it was made available to those who would be drafting the Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThroughout the morning we have heard of the need to get things right and not make mistakes. We have tabled a bill that we are happy with. We are obviously allowing those people who have made solid submissions to have their concerns reflected in the finished copy of the bill. But I have to say that it will be about another hour before that Supplementary Order Paper is completed. That is not unreasonable in these circumstances. The sort of jumping up and down and beating of the chest that we have seen over this is utterly ridiculous in the circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI have before me at least 100 amendments put forward by the Opposition, which have been declared valid by the Clerk. I will take the time now to go through those amendments one by one and explain the Government\u2019s position, over and above the document that was provided to the members of the Committee this morning. The first amendment is in the name of the Hon Ruth Dyson. It deals with an interpretive matter. Six changes are proposed in this amendment. To make the process a little shorter, I simply say that these amendments would extend the powers of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority to a much greater area of Canterbury than is currently the case. The amendments deal with putting the words \u201CCanterbury District Health Board\u201D into the legislation as one of the bodies that is consulted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt is implicit in the legislation that recovery plans for health will be developed with the Canterbury District Health Board; the board does not need an additional representation in the bill. Most certainly, the area caught by the bill\u2019s provision does not have to be as large as that covered by the Canterbury District Health Board. The situation is similar with regard to the issues around the disability strategy. That is a guide for how local authorities should plan for the development of new buildings and facilities in their district, and it will remain so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe second amendment in the name of the Hon Ruth Dyson proposes that there be some exclusions and exceptions of exclusions to appeals. The Government\u2019s response to this amendment is that we will not support it. It puts appeals into the wrong place. If we were to go through this process, then we would accept this amendment, engaging the Environment Court in the process. That would defeat the purpose of the bill, which is to move swiftly to get good recovery for Canterbury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe next amendment is in the name of the Hon Clayton Cosgrove: \u201CPart 2 Clause 21 is amended by inserting the following subclause (5) No recovery plan shall be approved without an impact assessment being completed to assess the social, cultural, environmental and community impacts.\u201D From our perspective, we believe that this bill is an enabling framework, and that that response in some cases for recovery plans would be implicit. Where there is a need to do something expeditiously, where there is a need to do something even if it is a temporary arrangement, this amendment would be an impost that would, in fact, slow things down. Frankly, I think that is the intention here today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe next amendment from the Hon Clayton Cosgrove proposes that \u201CClause 27 is amended by replacing subclause (7) with the following new subclause: \u2018Compensation is payable under this Act for any loss suffered as a result of an action taken under this section\u2019 \u201D. This is where the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority will have the ability to work with local councils to suspend some aspects of Resource Management Act plans. It would mean, for example, that people with air space currently available to them who own property in Christchurch excluded from a new central business district plan by the Christchurch City Council would end up being liable for compensation from the Government. That is an unacceptable position, and we will not be supporting that amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe next amendment proposes that \u201CClause 83 is amended by omitting subsection (1).\u201D The effect of omitting subsection (1), without reading what it currently says, is that urban search and rescue workers who were engaged in the rescue of people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207c6bc2628cc406380df35ee77024de4\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Do you mean you haven\u2019t read it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022367ce2468fdb4484a9405d93db81c1e7\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I will read it then. Shall I read it to the member, who clearly is not familiar with this particular part of the bill? Subsection (1) of clause 83, which Clayton Cosgrove wants to take out, states: \u201CEvery action taken or decision made under the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act 2002 by the National Controller, the Director, or any person acting under the authority of the National Controller or the Director, if taken or made while the state of national emergency was in force in respect of Christchurch in 2011, is declared to be and always to have been valid.\u201D He wants to take out the bit that says: \u201CSubsection (1) does not apply in respect of any action or decision that is taken or made in bad faith\u201D, etc. I think it should apply in those circumstances, and I do not want to see urban search and rescue teams suddenly confronted with bills for the damage that may have been done to enter buildings looking for bodies. So we will not be supporting that amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe next amendment is in the name of Brendon Burns. It amends matters to do with the community forum. The community forum will be the subject of some negotiation, I think, between political parties and, of course, the elected representatives, but in the end it is about giving a voice to people in the community who do not have an elected responsibility, but emerge from those communities as leaders as a result of this particular event. Saying that there should be more than six meetings a year when we have a bill that will run for 5 years shows a failure to understand that at the start of this process there may be a need for many more meetings at the front end but, due to the success of the recovery\u2014I hope\u2014fewer meetings at the back end. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe next amendment is also in the name of Brendon Burns with regard to the recovery plan for the central business district. He proposes that \u201Cin developing the Recovery Plan for the CBD the Christchurch City Council must not propose the full or partial sale of any assets which it or any of its subsidiaries hold.\u201D So where does that leave them with the Henderson properties? The Labour Party has spent the last couple of years telling the world that those properties were a bunch of dead-duck properties that the council should never have invested in. So on the one hand Labour is saying that the council should never have done it, should not have touched it, it was outrageous, but now it is saying: \u201CDon\u2019t sell them; they\u2019re precious local assets. Don\u2019t touch them.\u201D Most of those properties are busted and broken. It would be a good thing if the council does have the flexibility to enter property transactions for property that is held by ratepayers, particularly where those properties are now a significant burden on an already stressed rating base. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe next amendment from Brendon Burns relates to clause 27, \u201CSuspension of plan, etc\u201D. What Mr Burns wants to do is implicit in subclause (1)(c). I will not go into the detail, because it is so obvious, and it would be an embarrassment to point it out. Mr Burns also proposes amendments to clause 87 \u201CQuarterly report on operation of this Act\u201D. For clarification purposes he wants the description to list the instances in which each power was exercised, and whether notification and/or consultation was required and carried out. Well, where there are requirements for disclosure in legislation there are very few prescriptions about that requirement. We could, for example, disclose Ministers\u2019 expenses as a bulk figure, and then let everybody go and work it out. But no one finds that acceptable, so there is a line-by-line attitude taken to it. It is implicit in this bill that the same process will be followed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe Hon Clayton Cosgrove wants to amend the public notification of draft recovery plan for the central business district. This is an amendment that we will not support, largely because, in the end, the legislation prescribes that the Minister\u2014therefore the Cabinet committee\u2014and Cabinet itself approves that plan. The Hon Clayton Cosgrove also wants to amend the development of recovery plans. He proposes that the process for the development of a recovery plan must include one or more public hearings, as determined by the chief executive, at which members of the public may appear and must be heard. Let us say it is a recovery plan for the lower reaches of the Avon River, as it enters the estuary. We know, at the moment, that 65 percent of the 94 percent of toilet discharge that gets flushed in the city does not make its way to the sewerage works. We know there has to be a suspension of the requirements of the Resource Management Act to allow unacceptable discharge into those areas. If there is a better way of doing it, and it can be done quickly, do we really need to have a publicly notified process that allows people to come along and express their view about whether we should stop sewage running into an open waterway? It is an utterly ridiculous suggestion, and we will not be supporting it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe next amendment from the Hon Ruth Dyson is to clause 22(2), to omit subclause (2) and insert a new subclause (2). For the member\u2014I know that the request will be made in a few minutes\u2014let me read the current subclause (2) so that people can be in no doubt about what is in it. I do not want to be accused, again, of not knowing what is in it. Clause 22 talks about changes to a recovery plan. Subclause (2) states: \u201CAction may be taken under subsection (1) using the processes the Minister considers appropriate.\u201D Ms Dyson wants us to refer to subsections (4) and (5) of section 11, as set out in clause 22. Section 11(4) is prescriptive. It does not set out that clause 22(2) sets aside anything; all it does is make sure that there is some flexibility that can be exercised according to the size of the plan that is being dealt with. Once again, the Labour Party wants to put in place as many hold-it-up, slow-it-down, roadblock arrangements as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWe then come to more amendments by the Hon Clayton Cosgrove. He wants to insert new clause 7A, \u201CRelationship with Local Authorities\u201D. The amendment says: \u201CThe Minister must meet at least quarterly with Council Mayors and the Chair of the Regional Council.\u201D That assumes there will be a massive arm\u2019s-length lack of collaboration arrangement coming out of this bill. The amendment attacks the very, very heart of this bill, which is about having cooperation and collaboration. We will not support that amendment. It would be a matter of bad faith to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe member also wants to amend clause 48. For those who are uncertain about clause 48, please turn to the relevant page so that we can be clear about this, and we cannot be accused of getting things wrong or going to the wrong place in the bill. Clause 48 is about directions that can be issued by the organisation. A direction is a simple thing. It could be whether a council would mind holding up a decision because more information was coming. I can tell members that that has happened in the last few weeks. It has been done cooperatively, without the need for any reference to any legislation or law, but it simply formalises what can be done. So what we get is that the Minister would be required to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6cd85172f9b4b39b7ef2a319e937a44\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Charles Chauvel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c64f4255ecd14e0c9f27de6884f517d6\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, do they not want responses to their SOPs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u002270a18014cfb64734a1392b70efd82427\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270a18014cfb64734a1392b70efd82427\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E In reply to that last aside from the Minister, I tell members that we have just had the extraordinary sight of the Minister in the chair, the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery, during the only time this legislation will have any effective scrutiny from the Committee\u2014because his own amendments will not be ready for another 45 minutes, partway through the debate, or in fact toward the conclusion of the debate\u2014reading through amendments that the Opposition has put forward to try to improve this legislation, and then rejecting them all. Well, the Minister needs to reflect on the adequacy of the process here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThis legislation will allow the Minister to overturn any planning decision, revoke or amend any resource consent, force councils to allow any resource consent, compulsorily acquire property without any public interest test, demolish any house even if it is undamaged, and dissolve elected bodies if they fail to do what he says. So this Opposition makes no apology for wanting to make sure that the legislation is properly scrutinised, and I will not have it said by any member in this Parliament that it is unpatriotic or irresponsible to do so. Our job\u2014the thing that the people pay us to do\u2014is to work out whether the laws that this House is passing are properly made. It is not an inappropriate exercise of anyone\u2019s time in this Parliament to make sure that that is done, and this current process does not comply, on any view, with that test.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI am the chair of the Regulations Review Committee. We are the committee that has had the job of scrutinising the Orders in Council that were made under the 2010 emergency legislation, and I will acknowledge a point that Amy Adams made. It is true that the Orders in Council that have been made to date, recommended by the officials and by the Minister in the chair, have been moderate. That is an appropriate thing to put on the record. There has not been an attempt, to date, to overreach the powers that the Minister has had conferred on him by this Parliament. I will put that on record happily and freely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI will also put on record that the Minister did not have to agree to a select committee process. He could have just rammed all this through under urgency. Thank goodness he did not, because I think that all members on that committee would agree that we have managed to make some improvements to the legislation. It is a good thing that we have had that process. I wish we were not now at the point of a logjam where we are 40 minutes away from even seeing the detail of further amendments that are to be proposed by the Government, but I accept that we have had a summary of those amendments. That is what I will take the time to respond to, in relation to a couple of detailed points. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EFirst of all I come to clause 70, and this concerns a matter that was pointed to by the Legislation Advisory Committee. The test for the making of the Orders in Council is not that the orders are necessary. It is not that we can suspend the law, extend the law, or do away with the provisions of the law because the orders are necessary for the purposes of dealing with the emergency; under this clause the orders can be expedient. Parliament is saying to the executive: \u201CWe are going to do away with our right to make laws. We are going to delegate that to you if you think it is a nice idea.\u201D That is what\u2014in layman\u2019s terms\u2014\u201Cexpedient\u201D means. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThat cannot be a wise thing to do. The Legislation Advisory Committee cautions against it, and I add my voice to its caution. I would urge the Minister, even though that is the test in the existing legislation, and even though he has not abused it\u2014and I have put that on record\u2014to tell us why we have the \u201Cexpedient\u201D test there. Why do we not only do away with Parliament\u2019s right to legislate exclusively, and confer it on him, but then say that he can use it whenever he thinks it is \u201Cexpedient\u201D? That is unwise; it is too broad. We will regret this precedent in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe second point relates to clause 73(2). This relates to a submission made by Professor Joseph. The Minister can make recommendations about what an Order in Council should say, and the legislation states that no one can take a judicial review of that recommendation, no matter how wrong it might be, no matter whether it is based on incorrect considerations, and no matter how unwise it might be. I will say two things about that, and again they echo concerns from the Legislation Advisory Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EFirst of all, no one will bother to judicially review a recommendation. People will wait until the Order in Council is made and then judicially review that. So the power is unnecessary. It is also provocative\u2014that is the second thing. The courts are jealous of their powers, and they are jealous of those powers for good reason. The powers exist as a bulwark against tyranny and encroachment on people\u2019s liberties by the executive, by the legislature, and by other parts of Government. Why should we provoke the courts by telling them they cannot even review a recommendation that the Minister makes? The provision is foolish; it should be deleted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003ELinked to this recommendation from the Legislation Advisory Committee is the matter that once a regulation is made, there is an attempt to also put it beyond judicial review. This absolutely disturbs a fundamental principle that we have in our laws\u2014that any activity by the executive is able to be looked at by the courts, in order to consider whether that action is lawful. The courts cannot review statutes, but they can review regulations and Orders in Council. There is a very, very good reason for that. Orders in Council are made without parliamentary scrutiny\u2014or without much parliamentary scrutiny\u2014and certainly not with scrutiny beforehand. A fundamental check and balance in our system is that the courts should be able to look at the legality of executive action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EAgain, two things need to be said here. First of all, I ask why we are seeking to oust that jurisdiction. If we are confident that the Minister will use his powers wisely, then why do we not let the courts have the option of agreeing, or not? Secondly, I ask why we are using the clumsy language we see in this bill. There is an attempt to oust the jurisdiction of the court, but it is being done badly. It is ineffective. The worry I have here is that we have a line of cases already in this country, enunciated mainly through statements from the late Lord Cooke of Thorndon, a former President of our Court of Appeal and a former law lord, that if this Parliament seeks to put in place revolutionary arrangements about our constitution, then the courts will have to think carefully about enforcing those arrangements. If they agree, for example, that executive action should be put beyond the scrutiny of the courts, or if they agree that Parliament should just delegate its lawmaking power to Ministers, then the courts would have to think carefully, in the words of Lord Cooke, about whether they were acquiescing pro tanto to a revolution. I ask whether we really want to provoke the courts in this way, particularly with badly drafted privative clauses. I say no, because there is no need for it. It is provocative, and the provision should come out of the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe next point I will make relates to clause 29, and also to clause 30, which echo a concern from the New Zealand Law Society. It relates to information privacy principles and the way that information will be shared between agencies. The bill will basically require the chief executive of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority to consider applicable privacy principles but not to protect privacy interests. This, again, is going too far. The Privacy Commissioner has already relaxed the information privacy principles in the way that they apply to Canterbury during the emergency. That is the proper way to do it. The expert who is charged with administering the Privacy Act should be the expert who decides whether a relaxation is justified in a certain time and a certain place, and that is what she has done. This matter came to the Regulations Review Committee; we said that, yes, that is a practical thing to do in the circumstances, and we have supported it. There is no need also to let the chief executive of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority off the hook in terms of the privacy of individual citizens. I ask why that person, and by extension the Minister, should be able to ignore all our privacy laws in respect of the people of Canterbury and the current emergency, without any regard for the expert opinion of the Privacy Commissioner herself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe next point I will make relates to clause 83. This clause would retrospectively validate any action taken in respect of the emergency. Again, there is just no need for this sort of broad provision. At the moment, under the state of emergency that exists, there is wide validation of actions taken on an official basis under the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act, so there is no need to duplicate\u2014Mr Chairman, I am aware that you gave the Minister in the chair, the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery, three calls. I have just one more point and I would ask your indulgence to make it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224788cfdc99bc468b97bed36e8b06e9bc\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The member makes it hard. The member has now had exactly the same number of calls that the Minister has had, and we have not yet had Mr Locke, who is seeking the call. But I will give the member the call in the spirit of generosity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e377b81a3c34bdcb8651bd3dbf9a830\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL\u003C/span\u003E: I applaud your wisdom, as always, Mr Chairperson. I want to make only two more points; one relates to finishing my earlier point. I say that there is no need for retrospective validation. The power exists already, so I ask why there is this headlong rush to do things that will create bad precedent for the future. It is just inexplicable. The power is not necessary, and it should not be given by this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe final point relates to appeal rights, in respect of clauses 67 and 68. Clause 67 provides that there is to be no right of appeal on decisions of the Minister, except as provided for by the legislation. Clause 68 then goes on to provide a very circumscribed way in which appeals are to go through the court system. They are to go to the High Court and then\u2014snap, snap, snap\u2014with time limits put in place by the statute, they are to go to the Court of Appeal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EAgain, I have two things to say about that. First of all, in respect of a lot of these matters, the Environment Court is the expert court that should be hearing these issues, not the High Court. Ruth Dyson has put forward an amendment that would provide for that to occur. The Environment Court could sit with expert assistance from a valuer, for example, if it were deciding issues of compensation. Why should we not let the expert court do its job? It could probably do it more quickly than the High Court could. I know a little bit about the staffing of the High Court in Christchurch at the moment, and the personnel in the court. Probably the Environment Court could do it quickly, if that is what we are concerned about; the High Court is, I think, in a more difficult position. But then we have the right of appeal to the Court of Appeal anyway, so there is no need for concern about the law not being applied in anything other than an orthodox way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThe final point relates to the restriction that the bill would put on appeal rights. There is no need for this restriction. Again, Parliament should not be interfering with the way that the rules of court are set out. If we want to tell people not to appeal vexatiously and prolong matters through litigation, then we should simply rely on the powers of the courts that exist already to do that. We could bolster those powers through this legislation itself, but there is no need to blot out appeal rights in a way that could actually negate many people\u2019s rights to go on and have legal matters tested, because there are complex legal matters in this bill. I will be very disappointed if clause 68 survives in its current form.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u00221f37664cd40c4da69529fd6a9f287be5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f37664cd40c4da69529fd6a9f287be5\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It is rather sad, in my opinion, to have to rise in the Committee stage in this body, which is the highest body in our democracy, the most representative body, and to give what is, in effect, a primer on the nature of democracy and democratic decision-making. Democracy is fundamentally violated by this bill. Democracy is not about giving a Minister the power to override the decision making of local bodies, and that is exactly what the explanatory note of this bill states. It states that the Minister has: \u201Cthe ability to suspend, amend, cancel, delay, any council plans and policies.\u201D It is very definitive and sums up the bill in that respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003ECouncils, it is true, have a consultative role under this bill, and the Supplementary Order Papers being put forward by the Green Party try to extend the extent of consultation and community engagement required under this bill. But consultation cannot substitute for people at the local level actually making decisions through their local representatives about their future as a community and as a city, in this case in Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe reason why local bodies should have this power, apart from the fact that we would like to be democratic, is that local people know better than any bureaucrat from Wellington or anywhere else what is important to their future. There are absolutely vital decisions to be made over the next while, particularly over the next 5 years, in the currency of this bill, that will shape the future of Christchurch\u2014their city, not our city; as we are sitting here in Wellington. Those decisions must be made by the people of Christchurch, not by a Minister or a bureaucrat residing here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EDoes central government have a role? Absolutely. It has a role to assist the people of Christchurch, not to control the people of Christchurch. Our assistance is to give the resources to help speed and streamline the process of recovery, rebuilding, etc., and, yes, to enable shortcuts to be taken through certain bits of legislation. The Greens do not oppose that. We agree with the parts of the bill where modifications are allowed to particular Acts to achieve a more rapid recovery than would be normally the case through existing statutes. But to achieve that, we do not need to give power to the Government to override most of the laws on our statute book. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003ESome of the submitters to the Local Government and Environment Committee, including David Bullock and Daniel Jackson, said that the legislation overrides a whole range of Acts, including the Human Rights Act, the Crimes Act, the Habeas Corpus Act, the Official Information Act, the Ombudsmen Act, and I could go on and on. There is absolutely no reason for those Acts to be overridden. The overriding of Acts is not effectively constrained either by the law courts or by Parliament. Although there is some right of review, it is not effective in a legal sense and, of course, the Law Society, in its submission to the select committee, wanted much more reference to Parliament whenever laws were overridden. Some of the Green Party amendments to this legislation try to put the power back into Parliament to a greater extent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIs having a tsar in the form of a Minister to direct the recovery of Christchurch more efficient? Is this sort of state of emergency justified? It is true that with emergency powers sometimes things can be better streamlined, and we have had a series of weeks of a state of emergency, which has helped in the recovery of Christchurch to this point. The Green Party has supported those orders. But even when we look back at the history of that, although there are advantages, we see that there are disadvantages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWe note the complaints as late as this morning on Morning Report of business owners who have not been able to get into their offices in the red zone in the central business district to recover basic items like computers, files, etc. Day after day there have been complaints like that. Outside the red zone, where there is not the same application of constraint, people have been entering dangerous buildings, taking calculated risks, and retrieving their files, etc. from inside buildings. But the bureaucrats in the red zone have been ultra-conservative in their risk assessment, just taking no risks whatsoever, of any danger, and have caused, in the process, a great amount of angst and depression amongst business people and workers. All sorts of things like that are the result of this avoidance of risk, which is characteristic of people who have absolute power and are not necessarily in touch with the local situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003ECommunities have huge resources and abilities to address those problems and they are being underestimated in the bill. In the suburb of Sumner, for example, it has been fantastic to see people getting together all sorts of subcommittees to deliver services, social events, you name it. The Student Volunteer Army has also been fantastic. It shows that the capacities of local people can be unleashed if we allow them the initiative. I think the people of Canterbury have the capacity to come forward with plans to implement, with the assistance financially and in terms of resources put in from the central government level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EWe have had a lot of discussion here about the constitution and constitutional restraints, etc. It is useful to refer to why we have them. Often we hear that so far we have not done too badly, and we should trust the Minister, Gerry Brownlee. We hear that he is a good bloke and that he would not unnecessarily override constitutional provisions in Acts, etc. But that is not how democracy works. We have these constitutional restraints because we do not trust anyone in the executive as such, and because people do not always do the right things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EIt may be that we have a dream run with Gerry Brownlee for the next whatever, but we should write laws not according to the trust in a particular person, the particular Government of the day, or whatever but according to what is constitutionally right and what is basically democratic. Writing off the appeals to courts and the validation of actions by Parliament is not the way to do that. I think that the process of urgency here is another illustration of the problem with this bill. We did not need to go to this rapid process of dealing with the bill over 2 days, not knowing what the bill was until a couple of days ago, and not knowing what the Government\u2019s amendments are, even now, part-way through the Committee stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EAll we needed to do\u2014and the Green Party proposed and stressed this\u2014was extend the state of emergency a bit longer and have a few weeks to have a proper select committee process. It could have been done, it should have been done, and there is absolutely no reason why it was not done. Now we are in probably the biggest mess I have ever seen in my time in Parliament, discussing a bill without the Government\u2019s amendments\u2014which are probably fairly numerous\u2014before us when we are most of the way through what is claimed to be the Committee stage. That is absolutely unacceptable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EThe fact that the Government would force this urgent process, and not allow people in the community proper time to come forward with their amendments and changes, just shows the need for constitutional restraints, and the need not to just trust this Government, or any Government, on such matters. The select committee process is vital in our democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003EChrissie Williams made a submission; she only just managed to get hold of the bill before the select committee process. She did a handwritten criticism of certain aspects of the bill. She is a city councillor, and we have a process where even the city council, the body technically responsible for recovering Christchurch\u2014although that is now being overridden by the Government\u2014did not have access to the bill to be able to properly work out a response to it. It is just unacceptable. As Dean Knight, one of the submitters, said, the legislative scheme is drawn in command and control terms. Dean Knight\u2019s submission was a very good submission, actually. He is a law lecturer at Victoria University. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u00226629ffda2d2147949a3a89abd8d73a3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226629ffda2d2147949a3a89abd8d73a3d\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National):\u003C/span\u003E The need to rebuild Christchurch and Greater Christchurch is urgent, I tell the previous speaker, Mr Locke. We need to do it quickly, and we need to do it efficiently. Keith Locke wants to take more time, but circumstances just do not allow it. I have just received news that a major sewer has collapsed on Ferry Road. That is another setback that emphasises how fragile our sewer system is, and now more people have to use chemical toilets and Portaloos for longer. That just underlines the urgency of how important it is to get the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority up and running. The managing of the rebuild of Christchurch needs that sort of support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThere are two major debating points in relation to the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill. The first is whether the bill allows enough community participation. I listened to my colleague Louise Upston, and I would have to say yes. The second point is whether there are enough checks and balances in relation to the extraordinary powers provided by the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill, which are needed to deal with this extraordinary situation. I say yes to that, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThis is balanced and well-thought-out legislation. It is unique legislation. It is Kiwi-style, but it is informed by overseas experience in managing disaster recovery. According to the Legislation Advisory Committee, it meets all the tests of the principles of disaster recovery legislation. It is designed for New Zealand conditions and to get our city and Greater Christchurch moving. It does not preclude the recovery work that is already happening, especially in Kaiapoi. But with a dedicated authority in place there will be a quicker, more efficient process for the communities that still have to begin the rebuild process. We are all very aware that some people have been living in broken houses, with damaged infrastructure, and in dislocated communities since 4 September. Much of our city is munted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThere is a series of checks and balances in the legislation, and as the New Zealand Law Society says, the bill largely meets the objectives of transparency and accountability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ETo recap the details: the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority is working in partnership with existing councils and stakeholders. The powers of this legislation can be used only for earthquake recovery within the Greater Christchurch area. The Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery is accountable directly to Parliament, which includes all parties in this Parliament, and he must report every 3 months. The Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority itself must be reviewed every year. All Orders in Council will be reviewed by the review panel chaired by a retired High Court judge. There are also the advisory committees, a community forum, and a cross-party forum. I am sure both those forums, in true Cantabrian spirit, will be robust and active. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EFinally, as always in New Zealand, every citizen has the opportunity of free speech to hold the Minister and the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority to account. This is a well-balanced, well-thought-out bill, and I look forward to seeing it coming into force.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u002261405686c3c049aeade5ea54e98b7ebf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261405686c3c049aeade5ea54e98b7ebf\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I will go back and deal with the process we are in. I will make a couple of points, because I heard the rebuttal from the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery. Here is where we find ourselves in an absurd way. No one on this side of the Chamber is holding up the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill\u2014no one. We are now finding filibustering from Government members; the Minister took three consecutives calls, which is rather unusual\u2014normally it is two. The members opposite are getting up and speaking to the legislation to allow time for the Government Supplementary Order Paper\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239a017221c914c06acaef8b9d672027c\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I have confined my comments entirely to dealing with amendments proposed by the Opposition. If they do not want those given serious consideration, guess who is filibustering?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200033c13f1814a05b72d9c3d7d7c1ff6\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250f58e31ec914ec9beb75674f6848776\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I note that this is a wide-ranging debate. We find ourselves in a holding pattern, waiting for the Government at a quarter to one, 15 minutes before the luncheon adjournment, to provide a Supplementary Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022496b31586a4a4a7899459cea14f099bb\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: It will be 1 o\u2019clock.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6ee25fffb72415885561c1b9c1378df\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister says it will be 1 o\u2019clock. Let us do the calculation. We have been in a holding pattern all this morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265ab2d4918ee45b5819b5d4f78316e98\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Probably 2 o\u2019clock. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e186ca6b76a944ef8e50c5c38bc583f1\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister says it could be 2 o\u2019clock.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b125cb5e52d94f16a872ccf6b6893af6\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it could be, or it could be 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2e5d7fd17ed41d6b2904b12e84001af\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: It could be 3 o\u2019clock. That is very interesting. I thank the Minister. The interesting thing is that if we hold to the timetable as specified by the Minister, then after the lunch break the Committee will come back at 2 o\u2019clock and then there will be question time for roughly an hour or an hour and 30 minutes. Let us assume that we get back to the Committee stage at half-past 3 with 30 minutes to run, in order to allow time to vote. We will then have a 2-hour debate from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m., unless the Minister wants to work overtime\u2014and we stand charged and ready to go. Getting the bill through by 6 p.m., which was the Minister\u2019s timetable and was stated publicly, would allow less than 30 minutes to debate a Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe Minister has used an alibi that the timetable is cramped and his officials have worked all night. I acknowledge that; I am sure the officials have worked all night\u2014people like Mr Palmer and eminent lawyers and others who briefed us, who have worked all night to try to get this thing out, and who are working and writing the Supplementary Order Paper as we speak. The responsibility for that lies in the Minister\u2019s own hands. He set the timetable for the bill. Had he allowed another 24 hours, given that the state of emergency is in existence until 16 April, then the officials would have been under less pressure, and we would have time to scrutinise the Supplementary Order Paper. We are now in the absurd situation that if the House rises at 6 o\u2019clock as scheduled, there will be virtually no scrutiny of a Government Supplementary Order Paper. It is embarrassing for the Minister to sit in the chair and not have a Supplementary Order Paper available. That is not our fault. It is not the fault of his officials. The Minister set the time frame. He finally acceded to a request for a select committee, which heard public submissions for 4 hours and 40 minutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe Local Government and Environment Committee, which was well chaired by Mr Auchinvole, delivered on this timetable as rapidly as it could in order to get the report back here at 9 a.m. And we delivered; we on this side of the Chamber furnished Mr Brownlee ahead of time with our amendments\u2014as I believe did the Green member Kennedy Graham\u2014so that there was no ambush and so he had time to scrutinise them. Having listened to the Minister\u2019s debate, I take it that he has trashed the lot. We note that. We are prepared and we stand ready to scrutinise a Supplementary Order Paper. It is a portent of disorganisation, mismanagement, and incompetence\u2014they are not political words; they are facts\u2014that the House is treated with such contempt that we are not allowed to see the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EJournalists have even told me they asked for the so-called summary sheet and the Minister\u2019s office refused to give it to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d2b58c26c1e44439f39714c0c6f6de7\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253144b11d5c74701a284f1db26beb6d6\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is. I will not name the journalists. I have been to see a few. The issue about the summary sheet is that Mr Brownlee says he has given us a summary, but we requested it. He had no intention of giving us a summary sheet until I requested it in a private session with him last night. With generosity, he provided that summary sheet, but there a couple of problems with it. It does not provide the technical wording we need in order to scrutinise the legislation. It does not provide any of the technical definitions. It basically states what the officials agree on, disagree on, or note and a few colloquial words about what that means in essence. We are here\u2014I say to Mr Brownlee as a former Leader of the House\u2014to scrutinise the technical detail of the legislation. The bill is one of the most important bills to go through this Parliament, and the Minister sits there not having furnished us with a Supplementary Order Paper. He set the deadline, not us. He set the programme. He could have allowed another 24 hours. I would like the Minister to answer the question of what a delay of 24 hours\u2014so he could get his act together and get his officials to draft a Supplementary Order Paper for proper scrutiny\u2014would have done to the people of Canterbury. It would have done nothing. Another 24 hours would have had no effect and caused no delay, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022 data-id=\u002287aa82136f9c418b91b8011d1fcbf187\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287aa82136f9c418b91b8011d1fcbf187\u0022\u003EHon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman, for the opportunity to contribute further to the debate. I will refer back to the international experience. I talked in an earlier contribution to the Committee stage about the Hurricane Katrina story. I want the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery to listen, because the story is extremely relevant to why we are talking about the essential nature of getting the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill right. There has been international literature on Hurricane Katrina but this story comes from Massey University. We have in New Zealand one of the world experts in this particular field. In fact, he is in Christchurch on Monday, and he is addressing a seminar on recovery, which I certainly have signed up for, and I hope others in this Chamber do so too. The first thing he talked about was the issue of who defines the character of recovery. He said that pre-event politics frames the recovery process, and I want to come back to that, because people have said some pretty harsh things about this side of the Chamber. Yes, we do take them personally, but they will not stand in the way of making this work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe second issue in respect of the New Orleans story was this\u2014and I want to make this point very, very clearly. The relationship between local states and the Federal Government meant chaotic planning, and that is what this bill is designed to address. It is designed to ensure that there is not chaotic planning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe third thing was that in New Orleans vulnerable populations were marginalised from the recovery process, and I will not let vulnerable communities that I was elected to represent be marginalised in this recovery process, regardless of what the bill says. The expert talked about domination by urban elites and corporate interests and experts from outside the city and region. Finally, and most important, he said that pre-event vulnerabilities were re-entrenched in a post Hurricane Katrina New Orleans. We must not let that happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EMembers of this Government have stood in this Chamber and accused me and my colleagues of playing politics with this legislation. Well, I want to read to the Committee an email that I sent to John Key and every member of the Ad Hoc Cabinet Committee on Canterbury Earthquake Recovery, and then I will table it. When I sent this email I did so behind the scenes. There was no intention other than to get the Government to focus on what mattered to my constituents. I sent it on 1 March, 1 week after the 22 February earthquake. It stated: \u201CTVNZ Close Up ran a story tonight about a Tale of Two Cities - the east west divide is real and it has major implications for our city. I live in Bexley, which means I have a very personal and emotional link to what I\u2019m about to say. I have tried to strip this email of that influence and share with you what I know about the people I\u2019ve been privileged to represent for 10 years now.\u201D I will not read out the entire detail, but I want people to know that what I raised with the Government was the fact that \u201Ctolerance levels are lower than they were before because people felt they had been overlooked after the first earthquake. This has implications for law and order and also for mental health.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ESecondly, there was fear that people are vulnerable to the criminal element after dark. I asked for some night curfews around areas that had no electricity. This request was supported by the local police but was not listened to. The other fear was about more serious earthquakes and about the tsunami risk for offshore quakes. I wanted answers that I could share with the people I have the privilege to represent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EOn the issue of health, I spoke to the people at the tactical medical centre that was set up by the Queensland mobile army surgical hospital unit. I said: \u201CThe problem is that we are treating ourselves as a First World city when the east is experiencing Third World conditions \u2026\u201D. That is what I was told by the doctor who was running the unit and who had very special expertise to bring to the table because he had been to disasters in Australia and all around the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI went on to talk about access to services and about how difficult it was to spend a cash grant when all the supermarkets and petrol stations are closed. I then talked about Portaloos, but I will not talk about Portaloos here, because I am still very upset that the powers that be would not listen to the concerns that were raised genuinely, privately, and behind closed doors over and over again until, finally, I had to speak out on behalf of those who elected me to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI went on to talk about the resources of people who live in the badly affected areas and who do not have the resources that are available to me. I am talking about things like a steady income, mortgage-free living, and having family on the other side of town. I could have gone over to my sister\u2019s place and had a shower at any time over the 16 days that my house was without electricity, but I did not do that, because we were being told to stay off the roads for non-urgent purposes. Besides, I was a Girl Guide and I know how to keep myself clean and smelling OK even though I did not have access to a shower for that period of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003ESome of the people I represent\u2014not all of them\u2014have no savings. This is not a rich versus poor divide between east Christchurch and west Christchurch either. We have some beautiful houses that have been smashed up on the riverside, on the Bexley wetlands looking out over Horseshoe Lake Reserve. So it is not a case of east versus west and rich versus poor; it is just east versus west in terms of where the earthquake did its damage. But a lot of people did not have 3 days\u2019 worth of food in the cupboard, they did not have 20 litre water containers, they did not have transistor radios with batteries, and they did not have torches that were working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI went on to talk about engineering and Variation 48, but I will not go into that again, because the council has not listened to me, and I know that the Government is getting Tonkin and Taylor to work up some realistic solutions there. I am grateful for that, and I want to place on record my admiration for Tonkin and Taylor and the fantastic work that it is doing. It is working so hard on behalf of our constituents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EFinally, I talked about recovery. Everything I have read about recovery post 4 September relates largely to the disappointing efforts after the establishment of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Commission, which was believed by the city council and the Minister to absolve the council from its Civil Defence Emergency Management responsibilities. Post the 4 September earthquake, international best practice kicked in, with four task groups established\u2014economic environment, social environment, built environment, and natural environment. Most of these structures fell apart after the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Commission was established. I had ridiculous emails from the city council saying that the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Commission was better because it had seven task groups as opposed to four. The truth is that we need to engage with the communities of the east and with the central business district, and we have to set aside politics. Politicians should not be the face of recovery. We need someone in charge. I have taken out the rest of the email because it gave some indication as to who I thought should be in charge, and it is not fair to that individual for me to say so. So I have taken that person\u2019s name out of the email before I table it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe reason I wanted to put that on the record is that we have worked tirelessly on this side of the Chamber to engage with the Government, to engage with the council, to engage with our communities, and to represent them. In my maiden speech to Parliament I said that I wanted to be the face of the people who could not be seen and the voice of the people who could not be heard. I never realised for 1 minute that that would have some meaning after an event such as this, but it does have meaning for me because that is the job that we have all been doing. Clayton Cosgrove, Ruth Dyson, Brendon Burns, Jim Anderton, and I have worked so hard as constituency MPs, elected by our constituents to represent them, and I really resent the fact that we are being criticised by people who have not been elected to represent constituencies in the way that we have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EI know that the Hon Gerry Brownlee has been affected, and I know that his constituents have been affected as well, and he has taken up those concerns as a genuinely elected representative of those people, as has Amy Adams on the other side of the Chamber. Amy Adams has also been personally affected, and I think we have to acknowledge the fact that we are all personally affected in some way, shape, or form, and that there is work that we need to do and we need to do it together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister told the Leader of the Opposition that I had been emotionally affected by the earthquake. Well, I would like to know who was not emotionally affected by the earthquake. The emotional effect might be real, but I tell members that it has not stopped my utmost commitment and driven desire to make sure that this legislation works for the people who elected me to represent them, and to be their voice, and I will continue to do so\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E I know that the Minister is upset with some of the things that have been said, but all I am asking is for him to please set those aside for the sake of making sure that we get this right. That is all I really want to say in this debate. I seek leave to table the email.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022682a8da04e404200a16cc4d1fcae2a3d\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table the papers the member outlined in her speech. Is anyone opposed to that course of action? There is no objection. Leave is granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u00221968e551b3044713b6538ba4a0f0fe80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221968e551b3044713b6538ba4a0f0fe80\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I pay tribute to Lianne Dalziel\u2019s very impassioned speech just a moment ago on the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill, and I want to record my admiration for what she has done in the eastern suburbs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002257556ef2667144b8bac9ebc95d7c3a48\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221820cd29a3c24502b5c50a1ff50c54c3\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e2b0056eec6d479a82b57b8c7f86510e\u0022\u003EState-owned Enterprises\u2014Sale of Shares\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00226087bbe7bab540278e01b6f05bb7df5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226087bbe7bab540278e01b6f05bb7df5d\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for State Owned Enterprises: Why is the Government proposing to sell shares in State-owned enterprises?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f09ad35117e646ce9054f7e473b6b788\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f09ad35117e646ce9054f7e473b6b788\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister for State Owned Enterprises):\u003C/span\u003E No decision to sell shares has been made. Treasury is providing advice on whether extending the mixed-ownership model can meet the five tests that the Prime Minister has already outlined: retaining majority control by the Government, prioritising New Zealand shareholders, providing good investments, using capital to purchase other public assets and limit debt increases, and protecting New Zealand consumers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245f33ff3393f4d0c992313e0c1144efa\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Treasury advice that \u201Cthere is little evidence to suggest that privatisation would significantly improve the financial performance of many of the SOE companies.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022110132df29d64a52bcfe3c5de2805b21\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not agree with that advice; because when one looks at what the Government may be considering in the future, one can see that it is not a reflection of what that evidence may have been based on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b7f7005fd914e9c8065e791f834dfb7\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Given that he does not accept Treasury\u2019s advice on improving the performance of State-owned enterprises, whose advice is he taking, or can we assume that his proposals are based on ideology rather than analysis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc88ff3875a54fd2955d89416cc5d691\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has asked Treasury to provide advice on whether extending the mixed-ownership model can meet the five tests that the Prime Minister has already outlined. It is quite clear that we cannot continue borrowing at the current levels, so the Government wants to look at where we can change the mix of the assets that we own. The greatest scope to change this mix lies in the Government\u2019s commercial assets. It is crazy to remain locked into an ownership model of the past, which may constrain the future of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e88a52500f9f4448b82007a9c0f29b30\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the statement of the previous Minister for State Owned Enterprises that the Government \u201Cwill prioritise New Zealand shareholders\u201D; if he does agree, can he guarantee to the House that the bulk of any floated shares in a partly privatised State-owned enterprise will remain in the hands of Kiwi mums and dads?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250b64ed0bd174fd8980d926bdc0a896c\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: The matter is still being scoped and advice is being provided to us by our advisers. What I can say is that there is an absolute guarantee that the Government will be retaining 51 percent ownership of any asset that the Government may consider having a public float of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b284db48796a4f6aa6838e46cc3caa6e\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Minister has said he has sought departmental advice on the partial sale of State-owned enterprises, when does he expect to receive that advice, and is he expecting that advice to contain a mechanism to ensure that State-owned enterprises stay in the hands of Kiwi mums and dads, as his Prime Minister has previously stated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022473cb531728240c6a94cab6c947cb0a9\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister has made it absolutely clear that in the consideration that has been given to this matter, ownership will be retained in the hands of the Crown to the proportion of at least 51 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c48de01266c94305ad152b830f4efeb2\u0022\u003EBudget 2011\u2014Focus\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00229370c8e8edc947e1a2c7bdfbff5ee6e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229370c8e8edc947e1a2c7bdfbff5ee6e2\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: How will the Budget next month progress the Government\u2019s programme to build faster economic growth based on savings, exports, and productive investment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u00221c606ef54c7b4dd8a33f1c9f158f12fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c606ef54c7b4dd8a33f1c9f158f12fa\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Associate Minister of Finance) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Finance: The Budget next month will be about pressing on with the Government\u2019s extensive economic programme to build a platform for faster sustained growth. It will have two main themes: focus on increasing savings and investment, and on the rebuilding of Christchurch. It will be a balanced and responsible Budget for the times. The two Canterbury earthquakes and a number of other setbacks such as finance company failures are significant and expensive, but they do not materially change the Government\u2019s wide-ranging economic programme, which will build long-term growth by having a tax system that rewards hard work, an infrastructure programme that removes economic bottlenecks, a regulatory framework that helps businesses grow, reforms to improve front-line services in the public sector, an education and skills system that deliver real results, and encouragement of business to trade and innovate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282f3d37e193848d9872bfe5ab7e73a90\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Government incorporate the costs of the Canterbury earthquakes into the Budget and into its wider economic programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e8d1b83eef44631934cf4aafb12e9b7\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, although the earthquakes were very large events, we need to keep their economic effects in perspective, and it is important that we do not overreact. Events like the earthquake, and support for AMI Insurance policyholders, and finance company failures, certainly come at a significant cost to New Zealand. But they are one-off events. They will amount to several billion dollars over the next 4 or 5 years, whereas the Government currently spends about $70 billion a year, and New Zealand\u2019s annual GDP is around $200 billion. The Government will meet its share of these costs by initially borrowing a bit more in the next year or two, and carefully look to its spending priorities so we can get back to surplus and start repaying our debts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022348bf47a431c4a04bfb57ca099cbbd2b\u0022\u003EMichael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Why should New Zealanders be optimistic about the economic outlook for the next few years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022928ce7ae60d5479a999f939bc6476c62\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: There are very many reasons for New Zealanders to be optimistic, and here are a few. Export prices are at record levels\u2014up 30 percent in the past year, according to the ANZ commodity price index\u2014New Zealand\u2019s merchandise trade jumped 10 percent from 2010, interest rates are at 45-year lows, underlying inflation remains low at around 2 percent, real after-tax wages have increased by 10 percent since September 2008, we have very competitive tax rates, and forecasters expect economic growth to push above 4 percent next year. Finally, the main reason for New Zealanders to be optimistic is that they have a Government that rejects the crazy idea that the answer to every economic problem is outrageous spending promises that we cannot afford.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022004d3e6e77b64c54b0ad7cf0ca466187\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Government claim to be building on its programme for growth, when GDP per capita has gone backwards nearly every quarter since it took office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223c35be5942146639be811dcb2388ada\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I think the answer to that is reasonably easy. We had incredibly poor economic management through the first 9 years of the 21st century, and the Government is now turning that round. I remind the member that this country was in recession before the global financial crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fa835d6d5c44c4cb4ab8bd84cf5bba1\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister is so confident about his handling of major economic decisions, why has he chosen to release hundreds of documents on South Canterbury Finance on the afternoon of the last sitting day before an adjournment, including Treasury email No. 2044105, dated 13 September, which indicates that the Minister faced a potential conflict of interest over the sale of South Canterbury Finance\u2019s dairy holdings interests?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228b2bacc19d94e678b3ee9d3a2426387\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member will find that those papers were released by Treasury this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa03ce4b08d54592bb9d1153a66978f5\u0022\u003EDoctors\u2014Retention\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9d1ccbc4524404baff83a666b59eb83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9d1ccbc4524404baff83a666b59eb83\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: To what does he attribute the reported 300 percent increase in doctors leaving New Zealand for Australia since 2010?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022e513bfd0af95482aa3cb1c3e4fac73af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e513bfd0af95482aa3cb1c3e4fac73af\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I attribute those reported comments to a single medical recruitment company that is in the business of attracting clients. The flow of doctors in and out of New Zealand is a longstanding challenge, for a number of reasons, and is ongoing in some specialties in particular. The latest comprehensive data has confirmed that since November 2008 we have over 500 extra doctors and over 1,000 extra nurses working in the New Zealand public health service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa31950d6b68407b88128439924abee9\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: What responsibility does he take as Minister for reports that the New Zealand medical workforce is \u201Ccritically understaffed\u201D as a result of doctors heading to Australia, and that as a result doctors in New Zealand have workloads that are \u201Cextremely unsafe\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227570635ac7ba495ab059546ca11943ce\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: The latest comprehensive data, as I said earlier on, would indicate that since November 2008 we have over 500 extra doctors and over 1,000 extra nurses working in the New Zealand public health system. If we had an outflow of doctors of the level that that member may be suggesting, we would not have that level of increased front-line staff in our hospitals. Having said that, there are challenges remaining in a number of important specialties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022345383845b5e4e71a7b3a2a59c6df489\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Has he received advice on the reports that doctors who are leaving to go to Australia for short periods are now moving there permanently; if so, what did that advice say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acce1d44af7d45b881435d8594e821f3\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I do not recall getting any specific advice suggesting what the member opposite has suggested. I do know that we have increased numbers of doctors and nurses working in the public health service. For example, in the last 2 years of the National Government, the number of doctors working at the Auckland public hospital has increased by 148, and the number of nurses by 242.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c81e80fee9e84edf87c53e28aa7a0881\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he recall the statement in 2008 from the then National spokesperson on health, a Mr Tony Ryall, that National\u2019s policies would slow \u201Cthe flood of health professionals to Australia\u201D, and given the 300 percent increase in doctors going to Australia in the last year, how would he rate his progress?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e410e10263214077a4408e45106a7d12\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: First, I would strongly dispute basing a claim on the comments of a medical recruitment company that is seeking to attract clients. The fact is that if there had been a threefold increase in the number of doctors leaving New Zealand, we would not have increased the numbers of doctors working on the front line in our public hospitals by 500, nor would we have 1,000 extra nurses working in our public hospitals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5ca3b61dd064b2bbc914ef39b27fe6b\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he consider he is adequately funding the health system to retain doctors in New Zealand, or would he agree with the words of former Prime Minister Mike Moore: \u201CWhen Tony Ryall talks of health issues, am I the only person who hears the theme music from the \u2018Jaws\u2019 movie?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223dcbab1bab748959ef93bd9e449bd0f\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: That is so last century.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9aa3cad35204e74a1c695ccc1ac5bb7\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a column by former Prime Minister Mike Moore, dated 6 February 2008\u2014this century.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022564af63ab83d4928ba882b164d1c6270\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table the document from 2008. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EQuestion time interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b99011783f94482b3739454bd11f09c\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eece5561cda843bd99f0a4aef725751e\u0022\u003ECanterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill\u2014Circulation of Supplementary Order Paper\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc08c24c2f1d42d08c6310821c93e7d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc08c24c2f1d42d08c6310821c93e7d3\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am in uncharted waters. I apologise for interrupting question time. My point of order pertains to the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill, which is before the House, and I raise this issue because of the pressure of time. The advice I seek is about this matter. I received on my desk a draft copy of a Government Supplementary Order Paper, some 3 hours and 10 minutes after the Committee stage began. I have taken advice from the Clerk, and the Clerk has confirmed that an official copy of the Supplementary Order Paper has not been provided to the Clerk\u2019s Office yet, so I presume the copy I have has draft status.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe question is simply about this: given that the agreed timetable for this bill is that it moves back into the Committee stage directly after question time\u2014and one would assume that would be in the next hour or thereabouts\u2014and concludes at 6 p.m. with the third reading, that provides the House with less than an hour, possibly half an hour to 1 hour if the voting that would to occur to initiate the third reading is included. That is all the time that members would have to scrutinise this Supplementary Order Paper. The status of this document is draft at this point. My question is simply this: what avenues do members have to properly scrutinise a 10-page Supplementary Order Paper in less than an hour, probably half an hour to 40 minutes, in order to do justice to this important bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00226cc67b222d344be3b548fe233e6adecc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cc67b222d344be3b548fe233e6adecc\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E I think it is fair that we have a proper representation of what has occurred here. Firstly, the Labour Party asked for a committee process to be held, and the Government agreed to that. Submissions were called for from people, and admittedly they had a limited amount of time for submissions. But those submissions were made in good faith, and they were heard in good faith by the Local Government and Environment Committee members. The recommendations that came from those submitters were provided to the Government late yesterday, after the select committee finished hearing from me and officials at about 8 p.m. last evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EOfficials then worked until the small hours of the morning, until 4.30 this morning, to prepare a table, which is sitting in front of the Clerk at the moment, and which was made available to members this morning, indicating on each of the recommendations from each of the submitters what the Government\u2019s view was on those recommendations. There is no desire here to do anything other than accommodate what people have said, if possible, and the consequence of that is that from 7.30 this morning the drafting team has been working to put what is in that table into the Supplementary Order Paper\u2014that is, in the language of the law\u2014and making sure that all t\u2019s are crossed and all i\u2019s are dotted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThere is no desire by the Government to do anything tricky. I am about to send a note to a member on the other side who wanted to know what was in here that might not have come from submitters. I can indicate that around clause 40 there has been a wider consideration to make sure that obligations that should fall on one party do so, and not on the general taxpayer. In the end, I think it is fair to say that every effort has been made to accommodate the suggestions made by the people who made submissions. I am sorry that the drafters could not work fast enough, but the officials have not let us down. The timetable could have been moved in a different way, but we did not get resolution on some of those issues last week and we are in the situation we are in. But I do not believe that this House\u2019s scrutiny of the recommendations from submitters to the select committee process has been impeded by the arrival of the Supplementary Order Paper at this late point. What was provided to Mr Cosgrove and his colleagues a few moments ago was the document that has gone to the printers. It is being printed, and will be placed on the Table of the House as soon as the printing process is completed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd5e89b4f9ed4f16aa1066aebb8784b2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear the honourable member the Hon Clayton Cosgrove further because of that long intervention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5656f4c5d774848b1b8e9d43c69051f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5656f4c5d774848b1b8e9d43c69051f\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E The dilemma we have is that Parliament has an inability to scrutinise that the t\u2019s are crossed and the i\u2019s are dotted, to put it as the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery did, unless we have the official document. I just say that the total timetable for this legislation, as with any legislation, in the name of the Minister is in his hands. We were provided\u2014indeed, after I requested it last night\u2014with a summary document and I am grateful for that. The difficulty with this is that, firstly, it has no parliamentary status, and, secondly, it does not give the wording, the definitions, etc., allowing proper scrutiny of it. The dilemma I face is that we have now been told that this may be the document, so we have about an hour and a half of total time to debate this. We have spent about 3 hours talking about everything bar the Supplementary Order Paper, because it has not been available. This is a critical bill, and we want to insist\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcb302f118e7427480cb6ec4660b27c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcb302f118e7427480cb6ec4660b27c6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member has made his point. The matter I wanted elucidated was the status of the document that the member had when he raised his point of order. It would appear to me it is a document that has been provided to him by the Minister prior to the tabling of the document, to assist the member in handling the Committee stage of this legislation\u2014to provide an advance copy of the Government\u2019s proposed Supplementary Order Paper. It would seem to me that that has been an action that is perhaps courteous\u2014to provide at the earliest opportunity a document, even though it is not the tabled document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EAll I can say in relation to the matter is that the timetable of the Committee is not a matter for the Speaker. At the end of this question time the House will go back into Committee, and there are no formal time lines for a Committee stage. The matter is in the hands of the Committee to consider the amendments, and if the matters in the Supplementary Order Paper are of real substance and members debate them in great detail, obviously the Chair of the Committee has to listen very carefully to that detailed debate. But as Speaker I cannot change anything that has happened. It would seem to me that the member has been provided with a copy of the Supplementary Order Paper at the earliest opportunity, and, as I say, there is nothing the Speaker can do at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022 data-id=\u00223b6f10c306424600a104d4059fe73962\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8383f38-c78c-4e5d-8324-677d91e95c49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b6f10c306424600a104d4059fe73962\u0022\u003EKEITH LOCKE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think there is a resolution to this problem that might meet with the agreement of the whole House. Leave could be sought\u2014and the Greens would be prepared to seek leave\u2014to make a decision that this bill would not be completed today in urgency, and that urgency would be lifted. We would extend the state of emergency for 2 or 3 more weeks and complete the final stages of the bill in the next sitting period. I think that would meet with the agreement of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7446e29c1f945e0a9e1203e63013277\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We will not take the time of the House today in debating this matter. Of course, the member realises that the Government is extremely unlikely to agree to such leave, so that is an extremely unlikely solution. I suggest to members that the House will be back in Committee shortly after question time, and the Committee will have the opportunity to consider its own debate from that point on. As Speaker, I cannot predetermine any of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00224cd6d12cce7747c8a8510dcf088b5d4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224cd6d12cce7747c8a8510dcf088b5d4e\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288d6f726de9c470c8835f8ea2cf3bc34\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a further point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022283e96b4f71448a2af46cf5bd6e54344\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, very short. I want therefore to ask you whether you are in a position to advise us whether it is appropriate or good parliamentary practice to have a 3 or 4-hour debate specifically dealing with a Government Supplementary Order Paper when there is no Government Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a86bbe94f16f4f9fa15e4df510c35000\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows that Committees can start Committee stage debates prior to a Supplementary Order Paper being available. There is nothing unusual about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3b9891331c04a7ebee0af5d098d9997\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259192b8a2607419ab9ae406fecca9ac2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There is nothing unusual about that. The member is shaking his head; he is entitled to do that. But the member raising the point of order will understand the situation\u2014that the Government has tried to enable submitters to have input into the legislation. Time frames are such that they are tight. But the Committee stage is in the hands of the Committee. The time the Committee may take to consider amendments is in its hands, and as Speaker I cannot interfere in that. There is no further point in pursuing the matter today. I suggest to the member, though, that the fact that he has been provided with a copy of the proposed Supplementary Order Paper prior to its tabling is actually helpful, not counter-productive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00225f659baa7a1b40359f670c0289199318\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f659baa7a1b40359f670c0289199318\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298f619fd928341df93925a43a986bac6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It had better be a new point of order, because we are not going to waste more time in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fce4035770e4cccb1e679af460a80a0\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I will waste very little time. There is one point of your ruling that I think I would like to relitigate. I am not\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022529cd20ba2a94719b23a8ad1b0b963c2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There will be no further interjections from the Government benches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d9c2a78553a472c8e454c7dc9c2e080\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I am not going to comment on your final ruling, Mr Speaker, which of course is correct\u2014that it is within the realm of the Government to have late Supplementary Order Papers if it likes. I think, though, you said that it was not unusual for this to happen. I think it is not unique, but it certainly is not a normal or recommended practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229ab727b1d094ecead426f40c38a7c2a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I accept the point the member is making\u2014that it is obviously not an ideal practice. I fully accept that. Perhaps my language should have included the fact that it is not common. But the practice happens from time to time. I fully accept that it is not ideal. I think the House has taken sufficient time. The fact that a Supplementary Order Paper has been made available to members prior to its tabling is, I believe, helpful to the House. I am advised the Supplementary Order Paper has now been tabled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EQuestion time resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022483b63c04eed4b6b9473afe31764a111\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002234ef48c4610d4db3b88fd5736c98703f\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002208ddc04aa8ac4f7ab588da1b87e22ad3\u0022\u003EPrisoners\u2014Level of Drug Use\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022 data-id=\u0022096a64f8c0a1432ba2c5135517785b8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022096a64f8c0a1432ba2c5135517785b8c\u0022\u003EPAUL QUINN (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: What results are being achieved from the Government\u2019s commitment to reduce the level of drug use in our prisons?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00224c7e10c0802f4d54943934554cd08ae7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c7e10c0802f4d54943934554cd08ae7\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to advise that the number of prisoners testing positive for drugs from random drug-testing has fallen to an all-time low. In 1998, when drug testing was introduced, 34 percent of randomly tested prisoners returned positive results. However, for the financial year to date, only 6 percent of prisoners have returned positive results. This drop is a direct result of legislation passed by this House, and of the vigilance of corrections staff. We have brought in new laws to increase the search powers of corrections officers, and to introduce new offences for contraband. We have also enabled the department to put in cellphone jamming and to monitor prisoners\u2019 phone calls. As a result of all these measures we are now seeing some great results.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228869dc69bf834a5e8ef5628d07999cf1\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: What else is the Department of Corrections doing to address the drug and alcohol dependencies of prisoners?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad6408eb9f244fdca9beda5c03949caa\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: About two-thirds of prisoners enter jail in New Zealand with drug and alcohol problems, so stopping drugs entering prison is only one element of the department\u2019s strategy. The Department of Corrections is also focused on helping prisoners to take ownership of their problems and break their dependency on alcohol and drugs. The department is doubling the number of prisoners who are able to receive drug and alcohol treatment to 1,000 by the end of this year. I have opened two new drug treatment units in Otago and Auckland, and a third unit will open in Whanganui Prison this year. This clearly demonstrates our commitment to rehabilitation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222e6c60928a4d45209d30b1f584ccc1c0\u0022\u003ESchools\u2014Policies and Practices to Address Bullying\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u0022404a301cbce44372b30d479b2809ca0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022404a301cbce44372b30d479b2809ca0c\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What response has she had from schools to her letter to them asking that they check they have the appropriate policies and practices in place to deal with bullying?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4bd1f1f74494102a63e69aabef62c73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4bd1f1f74494102a63e69aabef62c73\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE (Associate Minister of Education)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Education: Schools have told the Minister that it was a timely reminder both about the support that is available for schools to deal with bullying behaviour and to check that their policies are being effective. One heated response has also been received. Surprisingly enough, this was from Labour\u2019s candidate for Whangarei, who has featured on television, bullying other members of his profession. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d4dd4ca1af248cc9fde735f75cb12e7\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware that her ministry is requiring Parklands School in Motueka to re-enrol a student it had excluded for threatening to kill a teacher and physically harming other students, even though that school had used all of the appropriate measures available to it, including school-wide Positive Behaviour for Learning, initiated by her Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257c2caff3db14095b7af8c8f41f6eef8\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: With the greatest respect, I do not think it is helpful for any of the children involved in this specific case that we talk about it in the House, but I can tell the House that officials have been asked to explore other options for this case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222080cd9cd9da42c6ba9cc3e32b770c70\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she watch silently while schools like Morrinsville College were attacked by the media for their response to violent bullying, but then joined in when egged on by the Prime Minister by writing a letter that blamed schools, when she knew all along that those schools are at the mercy of her Ministry of Education and can be required to re-enrol students that they have excluded?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273210cb0b42f4acf958dc82f78a39b14\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: I utterly reject that characterisation of the Minister\u2019s behaviour. I have to say that it is a bit rich to be lectured about bullying by Labour members. They should talk to Chris Carter and Judith Tizard. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3cd9f0204534a0d9e056d2be907e27c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is enough. Members should resist such provocative tones, but I do accept that the question was somewhat provocative, and therefore a provocative answer is not totally unreasonable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd75017d9c7541378f0221d171e01bb3\u0022\u003EJo Goodhew\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government responding to the issue of bullying in schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5adaa3ae1864704ad36435004e4bcbd\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: The Government takes bullying extremely seriously. In addition to writing to boards we have also convened a meeting of sector representatives and relevant Government agencies to take a look at what we are doing and whether it has been effective. I have to say that this is in complete contrast to Labour\u2019s approach, which when in Government was to produce, through Chris Carter\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022822cde67fde541dfb4a9ab306cc6d80b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is not responsible for Labour\u2019s approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c3c5133bb9e4010b674ada4833382ae\u0022\u003ECatherine Delahunty\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. Does she agree that bullying and homophobia, which have been identified as a major problem in schools, are also a problem in wider society, and that bullying and homophobia also take place in this Parliament?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baa84d9b4f2a4c63b7b46637fea40bba\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In so far as the Minister can be responsible for any of those things, he can comment on the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225215854f92694d619ade1a9ff484d4c6\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do. I think we all have to work hard to provide leadership. I think here of Mr Damien O\u2019Connor. I think here of the behaviour of the Labour caucus towards Judith Tizard and Chris Carter, and also of the fact that the caucus is ganging up on Phil Goff and bullying him all the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022491cebfd0f024d8b892e3bdafc3c3963\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: To the Minister of Education\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e121374bbcd049589297f18dc394ccd0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the member. I cannot hear the member. We will have a little decorum, thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c4658357a0f4df6a43b059958450900\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: To the Minister of Education on issues that she is actually responsible for\u2014what will she do to support Parklands School, its students, board of trustees, and the excluded student, given that today is Pink Shirt Day, when the Mental Health Foundation asks all New Zealanders to show they do not tolerate bullying?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f33a045bafc4109b5e432120196b5b1\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: I can assure the House that the ministry and the Minister will be providing all the support that is appropriate in this case. May I say that this is a lot more than Labour did, which was to produce this little flimsy pamphlet with a word finder in it all about bullying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7c240c7e2b54fbda9a326e77ef0d5e3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That question did not deserve that kind of conclusion to the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b5d5bdd05a44908997746c9ced70898\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter dated 11 April from the office of the Hon Anne Tolley written to school principals and telling them to get their house in order around the issue of bullying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a12b8f2787274402888476e6fcafb866\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c6991cc8cf1446787414e3c8af3d855\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I want to make it clear to the House that Labour has a spare supplementary question and if Heather Roy wishes to take it we will be happy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbec5653353a45329ff627eedee45475\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House will come to order. It has had a bit of fun over this question, but it will now come to order. That is not the way supplementary questions can be reallocated. The Speaker should be advised of them, and the time of the House should not be taken up in that manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9f65-e08b-4939-867c-22ef093e2a4e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a65c36232fce4271a8e01072ffa1fd57\u0022\u003EHon RODNEY HIDE\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table this Labour Government policy and pamphlet on bullying in our schools with the word finder and the puzzle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbcd8200b64c4729946c5400900e0be6\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Did I hear objection? No, I heard no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022df1045ea30174f7d906fe2244102aca3\u0022\u003EPetroleum Exploration\u2014Permits\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u00226b960845b14f4cc19088cc0a6df912a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b960845b14f4cc19088cc0a6df912a9\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Acting Minister of Energy and Resources: Has the Government granted any other permits for exploratory oil drilling in waters as deep as the Petrobras permit in the Rauk\u016Bmara Basin allows; if so, when?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022d13411e062334fd6bbf0ec5943a7e00f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d13411e062334fd6bbf0ec5943a7e00f\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Acting Minister of Energy and Resources: It is difficult to give a yes or no answer to that question because the Petrobras permit in the Rauk\u016Bmara basin covers water depths from a range of 250 to 2,500 metres. However, a number of permits have been granted to similar depths. In 2005-06 two petroleum exploration permits in the Canterbury Basin were granted, parts of which cover water depths of 1,000 to 2,000 metres. In 2006 a permit was granted in deep-water Taranaki Basin covering depths from approximately 500 to 1,700 metres. In 2007 three petroleum exploration permits in the Great South Basin were granted covering depths from 500 metres to 1,700 metres. These were, of course, all granted by the previous Government, which the member\u2019s party supported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c05f3d11ba3840eb84cf5df568b0092c\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the depth of the Rauk\u016Bmara basin is between 2,000 and 3,000 metres, and therefore Petrobras\u2019 exploratory well would be up to 20 times deeper than the average offshore well in the Taranaki Basin?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4b4c38a1d3949ee95984d6227c66c02\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that the Rauk\u016Bmara basin covers depths up to 3,000 metres but, as I said in the answer to the primary question, the permit covers areas of water depth ranging from 250 to 2,500 metres.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fde30975c3684fe68d27611ecc440130\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the average well in Taranaki is some 150 metres deep, and the deepest are 330 metres, what additional safety measures does the Minister think appropriate for Petrobras to safely drill at a depth between 2,000 and 3,000 metres?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9a296b416494b5fb2f658e11c769b78\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Although that may be true, I point out again that, as I said in answering the primary question, a number of exploration permits were granted to greater depths by the previous Government. Of course, Maritime New Zealand administers the Maritime Transport Act in respect of safety and marine protection standards and rules, and emergency maritime and marine protection rules apply. Operators must have the appropriate approvals from Maritime New Zealand before they drill exploratory wells. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6a3eb5380e34c8d9fbac81a8f83dbc6\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister know that the catastrophic oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico occurred in an exploratory oil well at a depth of around 1,500 metres, roughly half the depth of the Rauk\u016Bmura basin? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b9067bd3291423eaa4539142ad63bf7\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Of course, just because that happened to one oil well does not mean that it will happen to all. Again I point out that the previous Government also issued permits for depths of those sorts of ranges through the Great South Basin, the deep-water Taranaki Basin, and the Canterbury Basin. That Government was one that was supported by the Green Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215a63b9303a749149147d75418b4af5f\u0022\u003EHon John Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister assure the House that the Government will permit Petrobras to drill its exploratory well, and will not bow to the demands of a few protesters as it did over schedule 4? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c02556d1f1c44a1b14d0447e719fa31\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The Government confirms both the rights of the permit-holders to complete the requirements of their permit and of the protesters to protest. Both of those rights are important. I point out that the process requires that the 2-D and 3-D work be done, then Petrobras will have to fulfil the regulatory requirements before drilling an exploratory well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201a8717abf8a4b21938d3c761a5aae3b\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government require a substantial bond from Petrobras as insurance against the possibility of a catastrophic oil leak costing taxpayers billions of dollars? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f4436501c7c46c982194e768ffae000\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: A number of requirements are placed on operators before they can drill exploratory wells under the Maritime Transport Act, and Maritime New Zealand will ensure those are met. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215c194a7475448dd9e772150d1640cb8\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. We are entirely aware of the maritime safety requirements on these matters. The question asked whether the Government would require a financial bond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b04f9ea6999c4aa796e266c9cc15e204\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member makes a fair point. The question was very specific. It asked whether the Government would require a bond prior to Petrobras being able to drill its exploratory well, and the Minister, in so far as he is able to, should answer that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e7fcd9841ed426a8177120c1932c682\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: We would look to consider that option at the time. A number of areas of work are going on currently in terms of what is permitted in New Zealand\u2019s exclusive economic zone and expanded continental shelf, and the Acting Minister of Energy and Resources, the Minister for the Environment, and the Minister of Transport will be involved in them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdba345739234065b58ab79d7d7f2daa\u0022\u003EHon John Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: When will this Government show a sense of urgency about jobs in the minerals and oil exploration sectors so that we can see the sort of progress that is being enjoyed in Canada, where in Alberta the unemployment rate has tumbled, 70,000 jobs were created last year alone, and oil-sands companies are scrambling to hire increasingly scarce skilled labour? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a717dad02734a1eb01967de68a9b4d2\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: The member makes a very fair point. Energy exploration is a very strong export earner, not only for Alberta but also here in New Zealand. Here in New Zealand last year it brought in $2.1 billion in revenue, and directly and indirectly employed over 7,000 people. So the member makes a fair point, but the Government will also want to focus all the way through on making sure that the required environmental safeguards are in place, and I am sure that is what New Zealanders will want to see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220733a6a0d4874ef0a7ad185e9e71afbe\u0022\u003EHon John Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table an extract from yesterday\u2019s Canadian newspaper The Globe and Mail, discussing the growth in the oil exploration sector in Alberta, where over 70,000 jobs were created last year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df426aca62de4ef3b338748049cc58f4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022299d4e63452e411ab9cefb652d8dfba5\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government require Petrobras to have readily available an additional deep-water rig capable of drilling a relief well once exploratory drilling starts; if not, why not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f4f42f81b4c4129b15e0eaf33f9f042\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Those matters would be addressed at the time. I point out that the Marine Pollution Response Service consists of a number of internationally respected experts, some of whom were involved in the spill management over in Florida, and they manage a team of around 400 local government and Maritime New Zealand responders. We have equipment in stores strategically located around New Zealand, but probably the key point for the member is that the plan is regularly evaluated and re-evaluated to ensure that it meets changing risk profiles. Should the pattern of oil exploration or production change, Maritime New Zealand would look to ensure that the appropriate equipment is available to respond to that change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205127a958fa64405aa3988dd1f6a073a\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with Petrobras\u2019 head of New Zealand operations, Mr Marco Toledo, who said: \u201CGuarantee (of safety) is not a word that exists in our industry.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264ad8111135f488884841b16f5d7d016\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: I do not feel that I should respond to a quote as short as that, because I have no idea of the context in which it was given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7863c1656ce4411b6f2ade600c20a22\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister name any environmentally or economically catastrophic event that has resulted from accidents involving wind, solar, or geothermal electricity generators?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca9e3f91141d45e9aaca5e1c60d3ca9a\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: Not off the top of my head, but I am sure that there have been times when wind generation and solar generation have had their risks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226074d5ffd18c470498ab14b61cba3602\u0022\u003EChildren, Protection\u2014Priority and Community Support\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002262210d79f3154e36a066ef63dc973888\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262210d79f3154e36a066ef63dc973888\u0022\u003EJACINDA ARDERN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she agree that the protection of children must remain our greatest priority as a society and the State has a critical role in investing in communities to help them to ensure the health and well-being of their own?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022 data-id=\u0022a953c3435dbc4fd1896cc294919f700e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a953c3435dbc4fd1896cc294919f700e\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA (Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I agree with the statement that I made to the House in 2007 when I was speaking as the M\u0101ori Party co-leader. However, I must also inform the House that the important part of the statement, which the member has inadvertently left out, is \u201CFor ultimately it is the wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi; it is \u0101inga; and it is family that hold the key to the successful outcomes \u2026\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022107289f548d744dc820853bf8671b459\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Was she aware that cutting the family violence education fund has led to a total withdrawal of funding for the Girls\u2019 Self Defence Project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222824273f92474513aaceb8ac9b69e9bb\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: That is not correct. In fact, $2.8 million has been left for those organisations to apply for under the innovations fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223565133d6ae94f1585e6c5dcb1d3b412\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware that her ministry has sent a letter to the Girls\u2019 Self Defence Project telling them that their entire $377,000 budget has been cut, and their project, which over the past 15 years has taught self-defence to 77,000 vulnerable girls and increased the rate of sexual abuse disclosure, will no longer exist?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e6bb3796cba46c3a8c187ca3d95bf10\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in my previous answer, they are able to apply for the $2.8 million that is being put into that pool.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c171e0f236214b2ca9bd1da65384f912\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Will she reconsider her funding cut in light of strong protest by school principals, one of whom noted: \u201CEach time it has been delivered, the girls\u2019 self-defence programme has given at least one of the girls the courage to speak out about an inappropriate and, in a number of instances, unlawful act that involves them. I truly believe that if a programme like this is cut, there will be girls who don\u2019t find the confidence to speak out about abuse that they are having to endure.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a870be1781e34fcab8f4c2fb29bf91bc\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: I repeat that the funding cut is not to the degree that that member is implying in the House. In fact, there is $2.8 million in an innovations fund that they can apply for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0ab6a49a0004a5ba3d3e8f45ccad70d\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe that a programme costing $50 per participant that gives girls greater skills to defend themselves from harm and has enabled many girls to speak out about inappropriate and unlawful acts is a cost-effective use of taxpayer money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fed965f65552413c877fd2b58688d820\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: I do agree with that, and they are able to continue to apply under the innovations fund that has been put in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d98ff6349cb24e80a3b0c0fd366214bc\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe that the announcements she made on 1 April 2011 regarding family violence will strengthen the well-being of communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226755bb5fe6f44c2397a09aa49bb97057\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: We have made significant investments over the past 4 years in activities creating social change around attitudes and behaviours towards family violence. This has resulted in people being more willing to report and address family violence issues, which has increased demand for the services. We now know there is a need to make sure that adequate, good-quality service responses are available, particularly in communities of greatest need, to get families safe, restore family well-being, and provide ongoing support to prevent violence from reoccurring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260e0121dd4c14f0297630e96dd49b13b\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister consider a course where over 30 percent of the participants are M\u0101ori, and evaluation results showing over 90 percent of the girls felt stronger, more confident, found new ways to deal with unsafe situations, and felt they can talk to safe people to be a programme that works and is therefore a priority?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d71e95df38aa4e35b1b5f6755a4c070a\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, we have had 4 years of raising awareness in communities amongst all groupings, and now we want to see money going to front-line services where it can make a difference, because there has not been a decrease in family violence, despite all of the awareness-raising. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d2e39c3ba464faaa85af1de2756a95d\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept that as 53 percent of women using Rape Crisis services report having been sexually abused under the age of 12, a programme focusing on girls is a useful, preventive measure enabling girls to avoid, or report, such sexual abuse?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290bd2a6872714208b894512eb6519089\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: Any family violence of any nature is not acceptable to any member. We have people who are dying each year as a result of family violence, and we want to address that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b75e875a7aa4a50a43f057bbeffaead\u0022\u003ECarol Beaumont\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It was a simple question and I do not believe that it was answered. I asked the Minister to convey whether she accepted that given the number of women presenting to Rape Crisis as having been sexually abused under the age of 12, was a programme focusing on girls a useful preventive measure in that circumstance. I do not believe that it was answered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab22e8e39c1446f7a000759abf59187a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will recollect that in trying to repeat her question she had trouble with the introductory words. The reason why she had trouble with the introductory words is that they sought an opinion. They asked whether the Minister agreed with something. When members ask a Minister whether they agree, there is no particular answer to that. The Minister expressed her view around that issue, and that is the difficulty with that kind of question. Where an opinion is sought, it is very difficult for the Speaker to ask Ministers to be more precise on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229972d8448ba74e5ca206c80ed96d5585\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell the House whether she believes that the Girls\u2019 Self Defence Project will be successful in applying for the family-centred services fund, when it explicitly states that that fund will focus on families rather than front-line services delivered through schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2dfe169-d946-4f87-8d43-0bcdb7d8bebc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cea145d04a14bc8a8d81007ec9cdba2\u0022\u003EHon TARIANA TURIA\u003C/span\u003E: The question is hypothetical. I am not responsible for who gets funding from the ministry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022857303da424449368b5fdf30048d07ff\u0022\u003EFarms, Biosecurity Management\u2014Launch of FarmsOnLine\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022103b67110bdb439d8cb0ae6a93082385\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022103b67110bdb439d8cb0ae6a93082385\u0022\u003ESHANE ARDERN (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Biosecurity: What recent announcement has he made on improving New Zealand\u2019s biosecurity protection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u002220f4407c31d143b8836c7bd3d132de3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220f4407c31d143b8836c7bd3d132de3c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (Minister for Biosecurity):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday I was pleased to launch FarmsOnLine, which is New Zealand\u2019s first comprehensive database of rural properties for use in biosecurity responses. The $8.4 million of funding allocated to develop FarmsOnLine demonstrates the Government\u2019s serious commitment to biosecurity readiness. This initiative will significantly improve the ability of the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry to rapidly respond to a biosecurity emergency. The Waiheke foot-and-mouth scare clearly demonstrated the need for this type of information to be quickly available. FarmsOnLine now delivers that need. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221c818ce2-6ca3-4c4a-9e6a-2e3a67d070e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022186a951602f945cfbea5b40f6048060f\u0022\u003EShane Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: What is the role of FarmsOnLine? Listen up, I say to Mr Jones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ecfc8f8522840419161247f5b3d34d4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: FarmsOnLine for the first time gives the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry a comprehensive online database of rural properties, enabling instant access to information such as farm location, ownership, and land use. I encourage all farmers and lifestyle block owners to go online to see what additional information they can provide to the database. The more information the ministry has, the better it will be able to respond to a biosecurity incursion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228793729cafb74cdfb7825fea14c12604\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: How can the public or the pork industry have any confidence in the Minister\u2019s management of biosecurity threats when his ministry has decided to allow imports of uncooked pig meat from countries where the pig disease porcine reproductive and respiratory syndrome is endemic, even though the industry has produced a rigorous, scientifically based risk assessment that contradicts the ministry\u2019s decision that any risk is low?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c9940c959d94b44bf91a164dc959980\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The issue referred to by the member is a decision made by the director-general. In making the decision, I understand, it was his opinion that the level of risk was so low that an import ban could not be justified on scientific grounds. My office has informed me that a judicial review is very likely on this matter. I therefore do not think it is appropriate for me to comment further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d88c8bf1c86f42a4b2a13d0434bcda38\u0022\u003EFreshwater Management\u2014New Allocations and Water Quality\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u002277648a3542cf461f94d3fc6512ef71ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277648a3542cf461f94d3fc6512ef71ca\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: What is he doing to stop new water allocations increasing what he acknowledges are already serious issues with water quality in some parts of the country, given that, on receiving the final Land and Water Forum report, which advocates for tougher rules to improve fresh water quality, he said this \u201Cwill take \u2026 realistically several years to implement\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1bf3afac80041fd8f068bb56ddfe19d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1bf3afac80041fd8f068bb56ddfe19d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (Minister of Agriculture) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for the Environment: The Government has been clear that it wished the Land and Water Forum to complete its work before any decisions were made. A report was received from the Land and Water Forum last week, following its extensive public consultation process, and officials are now working through the 53 recommendations. I can confirm that it is the Government\u2019s hope to proceed with a national policy statement on fresh water, which will require local authorities to consider limiting water takes and discharges as appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea901a245d1846cd95d90d6c78286bf2\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: Is it acceptable that many New Zealanders will face further deterioration in drinking and swimming water quality due to further water allocations made under the currently lax rules, when he sat on the draft national policy statement on fresh water for nearly 2\u00BD years and now says improvements are several years away?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204ae3e2a20d5440c9390a750b4a72b19\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: This Government picked up a problem that was not addressed by the previous Labour Government for approximately a decade. The previous Labour Government established the Sustainable Water Programme of Action, which its own, non-political officials came to call the \u201CSustainable Water Programme of Inaction\u201D. This Government will make progress; the Labour Government did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b970720b9aa74b2bbcf246330fd57fe0\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the draft national policy statement on water quality that was produced under the governance of the previous Labour Government, and that the National Government has sat on for 2\u00BD years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022face1a3706644ddb88a771613106888d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f1e01e124e44fd89eaf138d6355b9b1\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with Graeme Sutton, the chair of Irrigation New Zealand, who commented on the Land and Water Forum\u2019s report, saying that water quality in Canterbury is good, except for Lake Ellesmere?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022408bdb6fceb443ca83a88489c757b161\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I admire the work done by Graeme Sutton as a member of the Land and Water Forum. What this Government has established is a collaborative process for sorting out these difficult issues. It is a process that we will give time to, having established goodwill between those stakeholders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bf084a8aa134f8c8a115c338da9c8d0\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I suggest that the Minister was asked a specific question about comments from a gentleman, and he did not respond to that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226aa702614bd145718042ad24bf5eb8cc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will let the member repeat his question, because, I have to confess, I did not get the gist of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022861663508b814db698392d641eb97756\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with Graeme Sutton, the chair of Irrigation New Zealand, who commented on the Land and Water Forum\u2019s report, saying that water quality in Canterbury is good, except for Lake Ellesmere?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d3cc66a4aa84375877caaa7cdcefce5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I would have to see the context in which Mr Sutton made those comments. I do respect the work that Mr Sutton has done as a member of the Land and Water Forum. This Government intends to take a collaborative approach and finally make decisions. That is far more than the previous Labour Government did over 9 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3cd21b7479f42158af07036efa672ac\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: Will the doubling of production at Synlait\u2019s milk plant at Dunsandel and the building of a new Fonterra plant at Darfield improve the quality of rivers, lakes, and streams in the Canterbury region before new controls on water quality are introduced in several years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c6c591068f34a908336e8cc232e53e8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to that will depend on the initiatives and the final decisions made by the Government after considering the 53 recommendations of the Land and Water Forum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e259ed184263457db40608355d65f76b\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: Can we expect legislation giving effect to the Land and Water Forum\u2019s recommendations to be before the House before the election, 3 years after the Minister assumed office vowing to improve water quality?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272d43115e8b84f0d9bad9e842d9b7f19\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will have to wait until Cabinet makes decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002279bc3b35801f4b19b17cb0ca1fe4d165\u0022\u003EWelfare Dependency\u2014Benefits of Work\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdb2ca90bc4749008cce16b74895df3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdb2ca90bc4749008cce16b74895df3b\u0022\u003ETODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Why does this Government believe it better for people to be in work instead of on welfare?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00222b8d6ddc62594d9a8dfebf66f0d9708f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b8d6ddc62594d9a8dfebf66f0d9708f\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E We know that for many medical conditions, being in work is the best way to get well. The Royal Australasian College of Physicians has found that working is good for health, and being out of work is detrimental to health. The longer someone is off work, the less likely they are to return. Good work can contribute to recovery from accident or illness. Of course, a small group will never be able to work and should be supported, but we believe that it is time to stop assuming people are incapable of work, and look at what they can do, instead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f44ea8be1ee47d3a5df2dc94be8f6c8\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: How are children better off in working households?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b34066d8e33b47909a400bbf9714f2a4\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: The research is clear. We know that outcomes for children are greatly improved. When we compare two families on low incomes, the family that gets its income from a benefit has lower living standards and is more likely to be in poverty than a family that gets a similar level of income but from employment. Paid employment is the best way out of poverty. It increases self-esteem, provides financial independence, and positively impacts on children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d73dc5b0316480d830fd0801a7fa96f\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any recent public statements on the importance of work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fc8f475c9ba426fb02037f791c0c9dd\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I have seen reports from the Labor Prime Minister in Australia, Julia Gillard, who in a speech last night called \u201CThe Dignity of Work\u201D said: \u201Cevery Australian should pull his or her own weight.\u201D, and that \u201CIt\u2019s not fair for taxpayers to pay for someone who can support themselves.\u201D It is a shame that her colleagues on this side of the Tasman, and that side of the House, are still trapped in an ideological wasteland and believe that they should just throw people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d55a000f1d0246f7a7d78a486bd42174\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022251251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d69fbd75fe2495a9bfc7ac0f83db642\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I could not hear you, in fairness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddf56c9f3cc84321a871af11f6b1f5f3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister\u2019s plea for the reason why she did not sit down when I got to my feet was that she could not hear me with all the noise going on. I thought I was sufficiently in front of the Minister\u2019s face to be seen pretty easily. When Ministers are asked questions like that by their own members, I take a dim view of their using them to attack the other side of the House the way the Minister did. To me, that is not on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a1acbfa70b20400b9b70918c35318bff\u0022\u003EAccident Compensation, Sensitive Claims Clinical Pathway\u2014Fairness of Treatment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6175816fe284b93a98fefe1fcca9709\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6175816fe284b93a98fefe1fcca9709\u0022\u003ECARMEL SEPULONI (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for ACC: Is he confident that victims and survivors of sexual abuse are getting fair treatment from ACC?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u00223d2d3a5930d045ae97c31c4c55937854\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d2d3a5930d045ae97c31c4c55937854\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for ACC: I am advised that since introducing the 16 hours of support sessions recommended by the independent review of the clinical pathway, there has been a good uptake of these sessions, and ACC has made positive gains in this area. ACC has also engaged Dr Barbara Disley, who chaired the initial review, to perform a 6-month progress report on ACC\u2019s implementation of the recommendations, and that report is expected shortly. The Minister is confident that this progress review will confirm that ACC has made positive gains.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0bb6789d2134990ae987ef89db57fd9\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think fair treatment includes a senior medical adviser at ACC, Dr Peter Jansen, suing an ACC claimant, a victim of sexual abuse, for $250,000 for speaking her mind on a blog about the appalling treatment of sexual abuse victims under his watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c629e16af014f06a51ba58535c4d858\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I would say the Minister for ACC is very concerned about the victims of sexual abuse, and he goes to great lengths to see that ACC handles them sympathetically and fairly at all times. If the member has some information that she would like me to raise with the Minister, I would be more than willing to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271e0e93b55224f758152b4ea8cf4ea93\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Will he investigate how Dr Peter Jansen accessed private information about a victim of sexual abuse and used it to initiate legal action?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b51c160b290b4a3abcb3e54b7a752bdb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If this is a matter where legal action has been initiated, I think we need to be fairly careful about that. I do not believe I should allow that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286267c8dc1714b6682b766716a28e9be\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think the matter is relatively simple as to whether the matter is before the court. If it is not before the court, it is my understanding that it has been the practice of the House for a question to be allowed on an issue. If it is before the court, I think the practice has been developing, at least, of your being consulted before the matter is brought up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251a82d09513d45378a8eacd589523a38\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That seems to be a reasonable argument. I will allow the Minister to answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e31bd33b46c7483dbca1258e94ab3d04\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I know the Hon Nick Smith is always concerned about the victims of sexual abuse. If the member has information that she would like to bring to me on that case, I am sure the Minister will deal with it. It is completely unacceptable if ACC staff have not been dealing with the victims of sexual abuse in a sympathetic and professional way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abc7af0f91854d21bc89020d5a2c62d3\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think it is fair treatment for a senior adviser at ACC not to have the resourcing to provide counselling to a victim of sexual abuse, but to have the resources to sue her for a quarter of a million dollars?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219505701937e44a18aff8e7d3063fed3\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I have no information about who is funding any of the suggestions that the member opposite is making in respect of legal action. I do know the Minister is very concerned to make sure that all victims of sexual abuse are dealt with sympathetically and professionally by the ACC.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b2867be375b4d4b80f30175fd8281c3\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister think it is fair treatment for ACC claimants to be subjected to that type of legal action by ACC employees, and can other ACC complainants expect the same \u201Cfair\u201D treatment if they dare to speak out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acb7713d581f434c8affef7a5719907c\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the member to immediately bring the information and concerns that she has to the Minister\u2019s attention. The Minister is always concerned to make sure that the victims of sexual abuse are dealt with sympathetically and professionally by the ACC. If she can show that that is not the case, I am sure the Minister will seek to take action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0f6ece2a976430481ca0be4f87fc984\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter from the legal representation for Dr Peter Jansen to the sexual abuse victim accused by Dr Jansen of defamation, dated 12 April 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b09413b63d734848b830267d5a301be5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Did I hear objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002275effccc8fcd4a2c914f1c0cfea86d21\u0022\u003ERugby World Cup\u20142011 Festival Lottery Fund Grants\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3f33d96211f44b2b5b6c0f89b21d5a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3f33d96211f44b2b5b6c0f89b21d5a0\u0022\u003EDr CAM CALDER (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Internal Affairs: How many community events have received funding through the New Zealand 2011 Festival Lottery Fund committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u00224b0386daa3ed4c7c8e18c8a3e7ca340e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b0386daa3ed4c7c8e18c8a3e7ca340e\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased that 175 public events have won a share of the $9.48 million in funding from the New Zealand 2011 Festival Lottery Fund. This money will help communities and regions get involved in the spirit of the Rugby World Cup tournament, and showcase the best of New Zealand to the world. It includes concerts, festivals, exhibitions, and sports competitions right across the whole country. I am particularly pleased that we have 16 successful applications from Canterbury, and 15 national projects involving that region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022512522a7049b450aa970b57a9e683a05\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: Does that allocation mean less money for other lottery committees?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1f049c1dea54a419bb94be695a364c7\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: No, it does not. New Zealand Lotteries has budgeted to raise $155 million for the New Zealand Lottery Grants Board this year, which will be used for the benefit of the whole New Zealand community. Our advice is that it will still be able to achieve that target. On top of that, I am very pleased that we were able to raise $8.2 million for the Christchurch Earthquake Appeal through a special lotteries draw, again without affecting the allocation to other committees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002257a19aee7d614968b38f587e72e9c383\u0022\u003ECanterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e1e8e74d64e3449ab41fc50cda27c086\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000553\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022df6fb0f4aacd43fdb248ac9362ed9ef2\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2, Parts 1 and 2, and schedules 1 and 2 (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022543928c5879449abb2b87ee32177ac09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022543928c5879449abb2b87ee32177ac09\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Just before lunch we were treated to a very impassioned speech by Lianne Dalziel, who arguably, along with Brendon Burns, has an electorate most severely affected by the Canterbury earthquake. I pay tribute to both of them and to Ruth Dyson; they are from the three electorates. In September it was Waimakariri that was affected, and Clayton Cosgrove, I think, did sterling work in assisting that community to respond. Of course, the epicentre in September came from the Greendale earthquake fault, which I think from memory is in the Selwyn electorate, and is commonly known as \u201CAmy\u2019s fault\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5e3c7e8f5c4438cb1721b53f404542d\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, he\u2019s a clever boy! That\u2019s a bit of bullying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6192d59db81469088d72e3d9a7288dd\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM\u003C/span\u003E: That is the worst I can do. We do not wish to waste the Committee\u2019s time, do we?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EIn February the three electorates that were most badly affected were Christchurch Central, Christchurch East, and Port Hills. I pay tribute to the three members who have worked so hard for the restoration of their electorates. I know that Lianne Dalziel has had considerable deprivation and difficulty in the execution of her work and in her personal life. I know that others have, too. I know that Ruth Dyson, the Minister, Brendon Burns, and others have faced difficulties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ENone of us in Christchurch has been immune to the difficulties, even in the so-called western suburbs, where I come from. I come from Ilam, which I share with the Minister. We have had our difficulties. We were without power. We were engaged in glorious challenges of sanitation in the garden for a long time. Restoration is required there, as well. To this day I still have no office downtown; it is cordoned in the drop zone. I trundle cheerfully around Christchurch City in a campervan, otherwise known as the \u201CGreenmobile\u201D. I go into the eastern suburbs a great deal. I have visited New Brighton, Dallington, Bexley, Beckenham, Parklands, and other suburbs like Aranui, where the deprivation is probably at its worst. I know what it is to work with the citizens of Christchurch who are crying out for assistance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ENone of that justifies the extent of the powers that we see in the bill here today. Earlier, in the first reading debate, I advanced the Green Party\u2019s critique of, first, the issue of inadequate community engagement, which we have addressed in our Supplementary Order Papers that I advanced this morning in the Committee; and, second, what we take to be excessive powers in the bill, which we also addressed in our Supplementary Order Papers. I invite you, the Minister, and his Government to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228015c4660ad24ab88d8d3efc7f7d5ccd\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is bringing the Chair into the debate with the use of the word \u201Cyou\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022def80670edbf484e82df09c534ccebc1\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the Minister and his Government to address the Supplementary Order Papers that we have advanced in good faith, with a view simply to curtailing what we take to be the excessive nature of the powers in the bill, as opposed to its legitimate powers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EFirstly, I will refer to Supplementary Order Paper 235 in my name, which addresses clause 15 and would insert a new subclause (4) to the effect that: \u201COnce the Recovery Strategy is in place, the Minister and chief executive must ensure that they exercise their powers, rights, and privileges in a manner that is consistent with the Recovery Strategy.\u201D A wide range of unilateral powers are given to the Minister and chief executive under the proposed Act. Although we agree that it cannot and should not be business as usual after the catastrophic earthquake, further checks and balances need to be put upon those extensive powers. The amendment to clause 15 would limit the emergency powers of the Minister and chief executive to a 9-month period, and also after that period they would need to be consistent with a recovery strategy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ESecondly, Supplementary Order Paper 233 in my name addresses clause 70. As it stands, the Government can change or override any law in this country until 2016 without any parliamentary oversight or independent checks, except for the few laws that are identified as exceptions. The amendments to clause 70 would mean that the Government could change only laws that are relevant to the recovery effort in Christchurch. We would achieve this by omitting the words \u201C(without limitation)\u201D from subclause (3). The Supplementary Order Paper would require the Government, under clause 73(1), to consult with other parties on the Orders in Council, which we also take to be essential. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EFinally, Supplementary Order Paper 234 in my name addresses clauses 71 and 72. In particular, I draw members\u2019 attention to clause 72. We want to insert an extra subclause (3A): \u201CIf the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Review Panel determines that a draft Order in Council is contrary to the purpose of the Act as set out in section 3, the draft Order in Council must be set down as a motion by the Minister for approval by resolution of the House of Representatives.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EWe recommended the Supplementary Order Papers in good faith. I will quote, as I did this morning, from law expert Dean Knight about the excessive powers in the bill, particularly in clause 70: \u201CThis Bill continues the previous regime for the issue of Orders-in-Council amending primary legislation, with some changes. The previous concerns about this regime are well-known. Such wide Henry VIII clauses are contrary to the democratic imperative. Particular concern was expressed about the lack of, or weaknesses in, checks-and-balances on the exercise of such powers. Regrettably, the new regime does not adequately respond to the concerns previously raised.\u201D That observation of Dean Knight is explicitly affirmed in the analytical paper that the Minister has produced. The analytical paper addresses each of the recommendations from the Legislation Advisory Committee, the Law Society, and Dean Knight pertaining to clause 70. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EIn response, the Minister says in respect of the Legislation Advisory Committee: \u201CNo change proposed. Want powers to be consistent with the previous Act.\u201D That is the very point of criticism that Dean Knight and the Green Party are advancing. The paper states: \u201CA key focus of the legislation relates to timely decision-making.\u201D Timely decision-making is insufficient reason not to proceed. In respect of the Law Society, the Minister says: \u201CNo change proposed. These are exceptional circumstances. See Cabinet papers for policy rationale.\u201D We have. The argument in favour of clause 70 is not sufficient and has been rejected by constitutional experts. The paper makes the same point with regard to Dean Knight; I will not reiterate it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EI will conclude by saying once again what I said this morning, and I will quote the Law Society. I do so more in sorrow than in anger, but it is with deep sorrow, because it concerns arguably one of the most fundamental issues that can come before the House: the granting of excessive powers to the Government, Cabinet, and one person, the Minister. \u201CIn general\u201D, says the Law Society, \u201C \u2018Henry VIII\u2019 clauses, such as clause 70, \u2026 are contrary to the rule of law and good legislation principles\u201D. Let that be written into the record of this House, just as we are about to adopt these powers. Let it be written into the record that it is contrary to the rule of law and good legislation principles, and \u201Ccontrary to the democratic imperative\u201D as Dean Knight put it. Let us be clear and honest and transparent about we are doing here\u2014those of us who are chatting; those of us with our heads down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EWhat do we have to say to the people of New Zealand when we are about to adopt these laws tonight? Will we say they are contrary to the rule of law? No, we are saying: \u201COh, to hell with it. We\u2019ve got an extraordinary event on our hands. We have an emergency on our hands and we\u2019re going to rebuild Christchurch, so we will just override the democratic imperative\u2014simple as that.\u201D Where there is a need for legislative amendments or suspensions in order to facilitate the recovery programme, a better alternative would be for Parliament to dedicate House time for those matters to be dealt with by legislation as they arise. That is what we, the Green Party, proposed, but we are talking to deaf ears. That is clear. I say to the Minister, with great respect to him, to his officials, and to his Government, which is pushing this legislation through, that the time will come when we will regret that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002249d91c4b315d453e927ad42ee89fd447\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249d91c4b315d453e927ad42ee89fd447\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I begin by reminding the Minister in the chair, the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery, of a commitment he made personally to me when he took time out of what I know is a genuinely busy schedule to come to the select committee considering the evidence\u2014not considering the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill but considering just the evidence. I directly asked the Minister whether he was committed to a message going from Parliament about bipartisan support for Canterbury\u2019s recovery, and whether he would therefore do Labour members the service of seriously considering our amendments. I asked that in good faith. I take members of Parliament at their word, because that is a requirement but also, actually, because I think it is what we should do, and I was gobsmacked to see the Minister\u2019s treatment of our Supplementary Order Papers earlier in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI feel let down\u2014and that is a very generous description of how I feel\u2014when I compare the Minister\u2019s reaction to our amendments with his commitment to me less than 24 hours previously. I do not think those positions are compatible, and I urge the Minister to reconsider one or the other between now and the time we have agreed to finish this debate. I do not mind if the Minister takes a call and says no, he did not mean that he would take our amendments seriously, and he was wrong to give me that commitment, because he did not take them seriously. That is one option. Or the Minister could say he has reflected on this and will now take my amendments seriously. One or the other would be a really welcome response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis side of the House gave a commitment 7 months ago to work with the Government on the recovery of Canterbury. Over the last 7 weeks it has become a lot more important, because the damage is far greater, the damage to the infrastructure is more significant, and the loss of life has been quite overwhelming to the morale and spirit of our city and region. That is why I think it is even more important now than ever, even more important today than ever, that we grow up a little more than we currently are. I say that for the good of our region\u2014and I say to the Minister that it is our region; he and I both share it\u2014because we can do better than we have done today. I want to pay particular attention\u2014[Interruption] Pardon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b717ca8972a4fa3b758c654416712d4\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I was talking to the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e17d4926f914e8bb607260c303c8eac\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: You do not usually interject into an open mike. I want to pay particular attention to a couple of amendments, one because I do not think the Minister has read it carefully enough to give a response to it\u2014because his response was not accurate\u2014and the other because the Minister was plain wrong in what he said about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI refer to my amendment that asks that the Canterbury District Health Board be considered as a responsible entity in terms of the legislation. There is nothing more important to the recovery of Canterbury than the health and well-being of its citizens. That should be the outcome of the recovery plan. We should have health and well-being at the core, and the prime organisation that is responsible, literally responsible, for the health and well-being of our region is the Canterbury District Health Board. In my view it should be considered as a responsible entity. This is not a big ask, actually. It makes sense. It would give a really good message about the board\u2019s role and the expectation that the Minister would have of the role it should play. At the moment it is considered, in the words of Nicky Wagner, as yet another interest group. The board is not an interest group. It is a key stakeholder in the recovery of Canterbury, and in my view it should be included. I also think it should be included\u2014as a requirement, not as a little afterthought\u2014in the key stakeholders who, under this bill, have the right to be consulted on the development of the recovery strategy. I would appreciate the Minister\u2019s considered response to those two parts of the series of amendments I put forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIn the Minister\u2019s earlier comments in relation to the Canterbury District Health Board he explained that the area it covers is too great, that we need to focus on Canterbury, and that expansion of the bill to include the area covered by the board would dilute the focus on the earthquake recovery area. I accept that. That is why I am asking the Minister to focus on the other two amendments, which are that the Canterbury District Health Board be considered a key stakeholder and added to the rest of the bodies in the responsible entities list, and that there be a requirement that it is consulted in the development of the strategy. I think that is important. I think it will send a great message to the district health board about what the Minister wants it to do, and that it had better step up to the mark and take that leadership role. I think it will anyway, but I do think it should be an expectation that the Minister gives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe second point I want to make in relation to the same series of amendments on the same page is in relation to the New Zealand Disability Strategy. The Minister does not know about the New Zealand Disability Strategy. That is OK; there are lots of things he knows about other matters that I have no understanding of. So it is not a criticism; it is just a fact. But I say to the Minister that the New Zealand Disability Strategy is not about territorial local authorities and access to buildings; it is about a lot more than that. If there were a small requirement for all recovery plans to give effect to the New Zealand Disability Strategy, it would mean a huge amount to the one in five New Zealanders who are disabled and who live in our region. It would be a great message for them to hear that for the first time after a major trauma such as this, they were being considered. I hope the Minister for Disability Issues is able to advocate to that end and to support this amendment. It would mean that disabled people in Canterbury would have a voice in the rebuilding of their region. It does not have any legal implications. It is a framework for thinking and for ensuring that people who are often excluded from decision making are included.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWe have only 2\u00BD hours left of this debate. When we reflect back to September and how serious the multiparty agreement was to the recovery of Canterbury, I think that should give us the opportunity to reflect on whether the behaviour over the last 24 hours has been in that spirit, and in my view it has not. I think we all should try a little harder to put our region ahead of our own self-interest or desire to get this legislation through and out of here. A number of members of Parliament have made comments during the debate that we on this side of the House want to slow it down. Well, I say to the Minister that nothing could be further from the truth. We do not have an interest in slowing down the legislation or slowing down the recovery. What we have a passion for, and an overwhelming interest in, is getting this right. Rushed legislation, with very little time for public consideration let alone the rigour of parliamentary scrutiny, is very rarely right in the first instance. That was the message that came from our side of the House during this debate to the Minister. A little less haste is more likely to have a robust outcome that we can all be proud of and agree with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EWe were given, after representation, the opportunity for committee consideration, and I thank the Minister for that. In a spirit of generosity, I will acknowledge that it was probably a big call, because it meant that this rush that we are going through now was unavoidable. So the Minister put himself at greater risk by agreeing to a committee process of consideration. I think it was worth it, because we gave at least some people in our region the chance to have their voices heard, and that is really important if we want them to take up the leadership roles that they have in our community. Louise Upston, who is not from Canterbury but who has contributed quite a lot in this debate, made an error when she said Labour was trying to have two positions on things. She said we could not have it both ways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022642da01895ec45959cbaf9f0f6950652\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022642da01895ec45959cbaf9f0f6950652\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E I do not want to cross over the top of what the member Ruth Dyson might be saying, but I do think it is important to respond to those points. I think that was a very considered speech, there was a bit of a message sent in it, and I appreciate that. I will deal with the substantive points that the member made. The first relates to the district health board. The district health board is an instrument of the Crown as it stands, so it already is a responsible entity, and any suggestion that it will be in any way sidelined or unimportant in the recovery organisation is, I think, not correct. My expectation would be that people from the district health board would be seconded into the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority for the purpose of developing that recovery plan for health services in the Greater Christchurch but also wider Canterbury area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022232f687c83c948a4bd895f8ada3e4a70\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Please read it; don\u2019t just listen to poor advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df12bebf4ba8405bb055fa8dfb51b74b\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is the advice I am taking and the advice I am sticking to. On the issue of the New Zealand Disability Strategy, the member\u2019s amendment places a very high test and a very high requirement on people using that strategy or looking to that strategy, by saying it must give effect to the strategy. It is very, very prescriptive. I think having that as a prescriptive requirement, when the plans that will be put together for the recovery will be incredibly diverse, steps a bit too far. If the member were to look at an amendment that might say that the recovery plan should take into account aspects of the New Zealand Disability Strategy, then I would like to look at that and test it against the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe member spoke about the need for everyone to be on board. I understand that, but at a point the Government has to say what it wants to be tested against. The Hon Clayton Cosgrove has made it abundantly clear that we will be tested against that, and it is very hard to say an adversarial position is the one that will be followed from this point on, and then say \u201CLet\u2019s all sit around the table, be great mates, and work out what\u2019s in the best interests of our community.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b0bb554061a4ece8fe307f7d68c4529\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: No one said that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f278eca1d9349e3a3feee701f0aee5b\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no one is saying we want to sit around a table and be best mates; at least we are clear about that. But the idea of putting into the legislation the formalising of the cross-party forum was a desire to recognise that all MPs in Canterbury\u2014regardless of their electoral status, if you like\u2014all those MPs who have a residence in Canterbury, have a stake in how the recovery is put together. How well that cross-party forum works will be largely up to the members of it. If it will be a weekly or monthly\u2014or whatever it might be\u2014inquisition on how the Minister is performing, and a recitation of the Minister\u2019s failings in any regard, then it will not work. So it is up to members to decide how that might work. From my point of view it is a genuine attempt to formalise an arrangement that has been in place since 4 September 2010. It did not have to be there, and I can tell you the advice was that maybe it should not be there, but I felt it was a reasonable thing. Sorry, Mr Chairperson, what are you saying?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f81f53e40d94543a73574960950ae2e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: You are bringing the Chairperson into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201e7eea46b994580bee15da9d17ea568\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I did not say \u201Cyou\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227770ae7a1cff49248026247303a4be42\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, you did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0f26e61b2bb40238ebb7d7f67990f57\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Did I? Dear me, I do apologise to you. Far be it from me to suggest that you are part of the Opposition caucus, Mr Chairperson. I let myself slip. My point is that we also have the community forum in the bill. If that is to work, it also has to have wide buy-in from all parties sitting in the House. While everyone says: \u201CWell, let the Minister appoint whom he likes.\u201D, and all the rest of it, trying to prescribe within legislation who might be appointed to it would be an even bigger nightmare than the one that will be faced once the legislation is in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EOf course there will be discussions. Last night in the closed hearing, I indicated to members of the Local Government and Environment Committee that I have already talked to at least one member on the other side of the House about his views on who should sit on that forum, and what they have to offer. I have to say I think the people he has put forward look to me to be exactly the right sorts of people to be involved in this exercise. I say to Ruth Dyson that I cannot see us accommodating the issue around the district health board. I realise that that causes the member frustration, but I have an obligation to protect the legislation as it is before the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00222436fe21fb52460eb1a94da735d4715f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222436fe21fb52460eb1a94da735d4715f\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E I reiterate for the record\u2014because I took from Mr Brownlee\u2019s words that he was talking about our taking an adversarial position after this\u2014 that now that Labour members have had a look at Supplementary Order Paper 237 we will, with reluctance, support it, and we will allow the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill to go through unimpeded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut I will make a couple of points to Mr Brownlee. Firstly, he has had the full cooperation of the Canterbury Labour members of Parliament and our caucus colleagues right through since 4 September, when the first earthquake occurred. Secondly, we have cooperated with him by providing, if members like, the game plan well before the game has been played. By that I mean we have written to Mr Brownlee to give him in advance our amendments, our thoughts, and the reflections of our communities that we are representing. Normally, we would not do that. We would stage an ambush, because that is the nature of the game in this place, but there is a higher requirement because of this issue. We have committed at all stages to engage with Mr Brownlee, and we have taken Mr Brownlee at his word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe took him at his word when, in the week of the memorial service, he looked me in the eye across a table in a private room and said he wanted us on board, he wanted our input into the structure and nature of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority, and he wanted to meet with Mr Goff and me further. Then he went back on that word on three occasions. We believed him when he said the legislation had not gone through the Cabinet committee. We rang Mr Eagleson and he assured us of that fact. We believed Mr Brownlee and took him at his word, then we found out 2 days later that the game had changed, and Mr Brownlee, when asked whether it was a fait accompli, said the answer was yes. So at all stages Labour has cooperated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThen it came to the process for the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill, which Labour had very little input into. We asked for a select committee process and we got one. Like Ruth Dyson, I acknowledge the Minister for doing that. I differ in one respect, though. I say it did not preclude Mr Brownlee from altering the timing of the bill\u2019s process through the House. He could have allowed 1 extra day. We could have worked tomorrow, and we could have had a decent select committee process\u2014a day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef2944089cf3414faef25e8c1e710c81\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: We could have worked tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022551b616b52ea42c88dbd8636aa3bfa3a\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: We could have worked tonight. We could have taken a decent look at the Supplementary Order Paper. The Minister\u2019s officials would not have had writer\u2019s cramp from scribing all night. The Supplementary Order Paper would have arrived on time, I assume\u2014I hope, in good faith\u2014and we could have had a decent debate that was not sullied by some angst.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EOur angst is around the issue that Parliament has not had the ability to quality-control in the normal way the amendments that have come from the Minister. In 4 hours and 40 minutes eminent experts came to the Local Government and Environment Committee with their best endeavours, and I think they caught Mr Brownlee on the hop. I think Mr Brownlee thought that if he had a select committee process and gave people zero notice of it, and that if, the night before, he told people to turn up in Christchurch, people would turn up, make a few comments, and go away. What happened was that people turned up, worked all night, and came up with robust amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EThe proof and the testament that the Opposition was right to request a select committee process is that Supplementary Order Paper 237, which was 4\u00BD hours late, contains, I believe, only one amendment generated by the Minister. The rest of the amendments were generated by, and found their origins in, the submissions made to the Local Government and Environment Committee by eminent New Zealanders and Cantabrians. So had we not had the select committee process, we would have had a Supplementary Order Paper containing maybe one amendment or no amendments. I make that point to Mr Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ELabour will support this legislation. We will allow it to go through. And I say this to Mr Brownlee, even though he probably is expressing some angst and emotion because he does not like people standing up and giving a view that is different from his: I renew the pledge of Canterbury Labour members and others on this side of the Chamber that, after the legislation has passed, we will try to work with him to make the legislation work, even though we hold grave fears that it is flawed, and even though we now know that it has not had the appropriate parliamentary scrutiny or the appropriate input from the public, bearing in mind that we could have had 1 more day, 24 hours\u2014not a week, not a month\u2014and that would not have altered or delayed anything in terms of the recovery for the people of Canterbury. We will try to make this work with Mr Brownlee, because there is a higher interest involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut I say again to Mr Brownlee, who is obviously preoccupied with other, more important matters, because he is not attending to my speech, that he needs to take on board this tenet in politics: he needs to listen. Part of the test of Mr Brownlee, who will hold the pen with wartime powers over the chief executive of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority, will be whether he is true to his word, engages with the community, and listens to the words, thoughts, concerns, and input that come out of Canterbury, or whether he acts as the earthquake tsar, as he has exhibited time and time again over the last couple of months, and as he has exhibited in the last 48 hours, and simply rejects all ideas that do not come from him and mows over the top of everybody else. This is not about my colleagues and me, and other MPs in Canterbury. It is actually about the people whom we represent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272a399027ec0416090ab1750d537ddf4\u0022\u003EHon Maurice Williamson\u003C/span\u003E: Really?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274c312fb280349b5beacffa603178ce0\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Really, I say to Mr Williamson\u2014the people whom we represent. He might want to take heed of that. We get our ideas from our community, we bring our input to the table from our community, and that community has an absolute right to be heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI have never come across a process like this in my time in Parliament. As I said to Mr Brownlee, it is either incompetence, or mismanagement, or the tactic which has been tried by him many times, and that is to drop these things on us and the public from a great height, with very little chance for input.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI conclude on this point. The testament to the fact that we needed a select committee process is that all bar one of the amendments in Mr Brownlee\u2019s own Supplementary Order Paper found their origin in the people of Canterbury and those experts who came before our committee. That seems to suggest to us that, one, the people were right when they called on us to call on Mr Brownlee to have a select committee process; and, two, that had there not been that process, there probably would not have been a Government Supplementary Order Paper. Mr Brownlee has trashed all other amendments and failed to listen to any of them, so it would have been his way or the highway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003ELabour will support Mr Brownlee in terms of trying to make this work, but I do note this\u2014and he will call it politics, but to be honest I do not really call what he calls it. He will be judged in respect of whether this legislation and the authority that flows from it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211f29922f8094d47b91ae0948b58ac48\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re a hero, Clayton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b462d99d18d439796c744a691a14ee4\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: I am a hero, am I? That is a really good comment from a guy who should be a bouncer in a Porirua public bar. I say to Mr Brownlee that he will be judged by the people of Canterbury on whether the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill assists them as swiftly as possible to recover their lives, their livelihoods, and their houses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022743a9e1a8a46438687d2f4298b777ec5\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll all be judged by it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fea22ab5c0b460cbf7a1f452e2cbbbc\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: No, we will not all be judged. I say to Mr Brownlee that if this legislation fails and the authority fails, the responsibility will sit squarely on his shoulders, and his shoulders alone, because he has rejected all the ideas put forward to him, and he has done everything in his power to cramp any input from those outside his small group and his Government. Labour members look forward to trying to work together to make this work. We will participate in the political cross-party forum, as we have participated in the informal cross-party forums that he initiated for months, up until at least Christmas. We have cooperated. But all we can do, at the end of the day, is to put up ideas that our community asks us to, in the vain hope that Mr Brownlee may listen to them, that he may take them on board, and that he may act on them. That may be a vain hope, but we still believe in that concept called hope, we still treat this issue with good faith, and we will continue to do so. But I say the track record that has occurred and the modus operandi exhibited in Parliament in the last 48 hours are shameful. I hope Mr Brownlee has got this right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ade6d48ff5134956bf214f3ff0cee301\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ade6d48ff5134956bf214f3ff0cee301\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I want to complete the sentence that I started at the end of my last call, which was to correct the misunderstanding that Louise Upston had. Miss Upston was on the Local Government and Environment Committee, which considered the evidence, and she said Labour was trying to have it both ways: it was trying to say some people had noted that the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill had been improved, yet we were saying some people had not seen the bill. But, actually, both of those points are correct. Some people who had seen earlier drafts of the bill noted that it had been improved, as did I. The first draft that we saw did not have a definition of the central business district in it, and I thought that was quite foolish. I am glad that the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery agreed with that point and added a definition of the central business district. But many other leaders in Christchurch, including our elected councillors, had not seen the draft of the bill. That was the point being made from this side of the Chamber. People whom we will rely on to lead our communities have not been party to any discussion about the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI have quite a lot of stamina, so I will try again with the Minister. He still has not heard what I have been trying to get through to him in respect of the Canterbury District Health Board, and I would really appreciate it if the Minister either did not take a call and dismiss my contribution, or, if he wants to take my amendment seriously, that he first of all reads the piece in the legislation that I am referring to. He is right that in the responsible entities clause the district health board does not need to be named. That is fine; let us put that to one side. I think it would have given it good message if the Minister had named it, but he disagrees, so let us leave it at that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EBut the second point I made, and I am not sure whether the Minister is able to talk and listen\u2014he is a multitasker; excellent. That is very good. In Clause 11(4) a small number of organisations are listed that must be consulted in relation to the development of the recovery strategy. It is my view that alongside the Christchurch City Council, Environment Canterbury, Selwyn District Council, Waimakariri District Council, and Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu we should include the Canterbury District Health Board, and that is what I am asking the Minister to do. I will have one more shot at that. There are a lot of other really serious amendments that we propose, which the Minister has dismissed. But I think that having another go at that one is worth it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe Minister dangled a little carrot in front of me and said that if I changed the wording of my amendment in relation to the Disability Strategy and its consideration in the preparation of recovery plans, he would give it another glance. He promised that he would give that amendment good consideration, so I have rewritten it word for word on the basis of what I recall the Minister saying. By now he will have a new copy of that amendment. I do not consider that it would be a victory if that amendment was agreed to. I just think it would be a small step forward for disabled people who want to have a bigger say than they might otherwise have on the future of the region in which they live. I want to take the Minister back to the commitment that he made to me, because I still feel cheated. I urge him, in the little time that we have left, to give it another shot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EOne of my other amendments was in relation to the instructions that the Minister can issue\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258793ba853c5421e817d93657b67cbe9\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f57dc67e7e34552828133de8d19fb64\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: In the middle of my speech?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba5a8dcecbdb4f06a711b522b088a2e4\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Well no, because I know the member has more time to go, and I just want to indicate to the Committee that the member\u2019s amendment relating to consideration being given to the New Zealand Disability Strategy is under consideration. It may be that it could go in a different part and be more suitable for inclusion there, and those discussions will take place with the member as soon as she has concluded her speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e373f5140cf844348282406d201c1dea\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the Minister for that. It is actually not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252eb4511fd87432c859d9cac42698454\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: It certainly was not a point of order. The Minister could have taken a call and done that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa0af9ecfa944cf49e9289fb2347f897\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t do anything right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202ea1d88ee744a22abbc6de5b6e503ff\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it was not a point of order, although the Minister raised it as one. That is the point that is being made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe other amendment that I proposed was in relation to the power that the Minister has to require councils or council organisations to perform a function. What we heard from the three councils, to the best of my recollection\u2014but certainly from two councils\u2014was that they did not mind that. They thought it was fine that the Minister was able to instruct them either to start or to stop something, because of the very unusual situation that we have. But they thought it would be just a mark of common courtesy if the Minister talked to them about it, before issuing an edict from on high. That is all that my amendment asks the Minister to do. My amendment is to insert a new clause (1A) in clause 49 of Part 2. Again, I say to the Minister that the reason I feel cheated is that I do not think this is a big ask, and I cannot imagine how the Minister has given this amendment the serious consideration that he gave me a personal commitment to give to any amendments that we put up. All that the amendment asks is that the Minister should talk to the local authority about the direction that he is, by law, allowed to issue. There is no argument about that. It is just a little process. We are not asking him to go through a great, long rigmarole. We are not asking him to leave himself vulnerable to be dragged before the court; we are just asking for a civil conversation with elected representatives in our three areas. I do not know why the Minister would not take the opportunity to provide for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI thank the Minister for giving consideration to the Disability Strategy amendment. I really urge him to look at all our amendments. We spent quite a lot of time working on them. The Minister\u2019s officials have taken until after 2 o\u2019clock today to prepare Supplementary Order Papers based on the submissions that we heard, which were finished yesterday afternoon. We have done our amendments ourselves, without the resources of the brains, talent, and time of departmental officials. We actually had more amendments than the Minister, but it is not a competition. However, our amendments were done with the same degree of seriousness as the ones that the Minister prepared. It is nearly time for the debate to end. There is a limited opportunity for the Minister to change his behaviour and meet the commitment that he gave me at the select committee, in front of a number of our other colleagues, to give serious consideration to our amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0f61d72eaaa4ba698a155b75a845cc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0f61d72eaaa4ba698a155b75a845cc0\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to take just a very brief call on behalf of the Green Party on the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill, to say we have a consistent position on this bill, and we are not going to support it. I went to Christchurch, and I acknowledge with all humility the members of Parliament from Christchurch on all sides of the Chamber, and the great work they were doing when I was down on the streets. I saw the figure of Rick Barker standing in the pouring rain advertising a sausage sizzle. I saw Nicky Wagner outside the recovery centre, doing her best for people. I saw people doing everything they could, and all of them doing what they could down there. It was a humbling experience. But what disappoints the Greens so much is that in this place the opposite is occurring; we are not doing the best we could do. This legislation is not the best we could do. We know that, because so many people have not been heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EI would like to comment briefly on what international experts say about disasters. They say it is time to listen, and listen, and listen to the people most affected. It is not about the convenience of Parliament. It is not about us\u2014actually\u2014today. It should not be about us. It is about the people who are most affected on the ground. When I was working in Aranui and New Brighton, going door to door and talking with people, their feeling of powerlessness and being overwhelmed was about slowing down, not the need for a toilet or water but the need for someone to listen to them about their future and about how Christchurch was going to be rebuilt. They were as passionate as we are that it should happen in the right way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EThe Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery referred to the right sorts of people being consulted. I have spent a lot of time with people who may not be considered to be the right sorts of people. They are not the experts who were at the non - select committee\u2014it was not a select committee; it was a committee and it was for experts, but our tradition in this Parliament is that select committees are for the people, by the people, and that is not what happened yesterday. Those people had many questions about their own future, and they wanted to participate. That is why I support Kennedy Graham\u2019s amendments, which are about checks and balances on what is very bad legislation. I have been calling it the Sarah Palin \u201CI can see Christchurch from here legislation\u201D, because that is what it could turn out to be, unless, at the eleventh hour, there is modification by the Government by listening to the Labour and Green amendments, which will provide engagement by the right sorts of people\u2014and the right sorts of people are everybody, not just the experts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EIf we are to talk about being in good faith with the communities\u2014and that has been said since day one\u2014we need a far more sophisticated process than one 8-hour so-called select committee. There are people in Christchurch who are very, very concerned about their future, and they do not want daddy to fix it; they want to be part of the fix. That takes more time than we might like. That takes more skill than we might have in this Parliament. It takes community facilitation whereby people who are damaged and are not certain of their future are heard so that they, with us, design their own future and rebuild Christchurch. That is what we were hoping this process could be about. That is what it should be about, because the experience of disasters in other countries, and even in this country, is that it works best when we go through that kind of process, not when we decide for them overnight that we must fix everything fast. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EOf course everybody wants there to be a toilet and water and roads. I saw the state that people are living in. I understand it because I am still getting calls about that state. But we are talking about the rebuild; we are not talking about the immediate emergency situation we were talking about. So it is very disappointing that we have to put up these Supplementary Order Papers and that they may not be heard. It is very disappointing. We do not want to vote against this bill, because we are completely committed to a cooperative approach to this. But believe me, the people of Christchurch are not with you. They are asking you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221705f8736f594fa5babc4c22753ee6fd\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is bringing the Chair into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230a9ecbdc5124971828bdf2712f7d1a7\u0022\u003ECATHERINE DELAHUNTY\u003C/span\u003E: Apologies to you, Mr Chair. The people are not with the Government on this issue. It is going to be a long-term bad plan to force this legislation through under urgency, as the Government is doing. Having had a very limited experience, and acknowledging that limitation, I would just like to say that from the streets of Aranui and New Brighton, people want to be heard. This is not it; we can do better. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Gerry Brownlee to the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 237 in his name to clause 63(2) be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ee528dc-7870-4553-95ed-5ec0cab60f07\u0022\u003Eto add \u201Cor damage\u201D after \u201Closs\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225b717493c6e54c70b45423d961f20db0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 111\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment to the amendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000633\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments as amended set out on Supplementary Order Paper 237 in the name of the Hon Gerry Brownlee and the following amendments in his name be agreed to:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000634\u0022\u003Eto add to the definition of greater Christchurch in clause 4 \u201Cand includes the coastal marine area adjacent to these districts\u201D; and\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000635\u0022\u003Eto insert in clause 23(1)(a) \u201Crestricted discretionary,\u201D after \u201Cconsent for a\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022401f4740f16c4b40b2238cf62054dad2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments as amended and the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 111\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments as amended and the amendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000636\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Lianne Dalziel to clause 3 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000637\u0022\u003Eto omit paragraph (b) and substitute the following paragraph:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000638\u0022\u003E(b)\tto enable community participation in the recovery of affected communities in order to promote a focused, timely, enduring and expedited recovery.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220e4112471ec64f9884baae1b0b83415e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000639\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Lianne Dalziel to clause 3 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000640\u0022\u003Eto add the following paragraph:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000641\u0022\u003E(j)\tto build the health and well-being of the communities of greater Christchurch.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c2692ea47f8e4a93b9c4f48fd096c387\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000642\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Ruth Dyson to clause 4 be agreed to:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000643\u0022\u003Eto amend the definition of \u201Cresponsible entity\u201D by inserting \u201CCanterbury District Health Board\u201D after \u201CPublic Service\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227a2e4efd738b4f859dc3b2381635efc7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote  was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f90c2c7f6b164579be8ac052f178ef83\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Ruth Dyson\u2019s typescript amendment to clause 4, relating to the inclusion of the Canterbury District Health Board in the definition of \u201Cgreater Christchurch\u201D, is out of order as it is inconsistent with a previous decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Lianne Dalziel to clause 4 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003Eto add the following subclause:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E(3)\tIn this Act unless the context otherwise requires the principles of consultation consist of the following principles:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E(a)\tthat persons who will or may be affected by, or have an interest in, the decision or matter should be provided by the local authority with reasonable access to relevant information in a manner and format that is appropriate to the preferences and needs of those persons:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E(b)\tthat persons who will or may be affected by, or have an interest in, the decision or matter should be encouraged by the Minister or CERA to present their views to the local authority:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E(c)\tthat persons who are invited or encouraged to present their views to the Minister or CERA should be given clear information by the local authority concerning the purpose of the consultation and the scope of the decisions to be taken following the consideration of views presented:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E(d)\tthat persons who wish to have their views on the decision or matter considered by the Minister or CERA should be provided with a reasonable opportunity to present those views to the Minister or CERA in a manner and format that is appropriate to the preferences and needs of those persons:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E(e)\tthat the views presented to the Minister or CERA should be received by the Minister or CERA with an open mind and should be given by the Minister or CERA, in making a decision, due consideration:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E(f)\tthat persons who present views to the Minister or CERA should be provided by the Minister or CERA with information concerning both the relevant decisions and the reasons for those decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002274be6db91a704c4ca764b853444c1c52\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000654\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Lianne Dalziel be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000655\u0022\u003Eto insert the following clauses after clause 4: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000656\u0022\u003E4A\tDefinition of Recovery\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000657\u0022\u003E\tRecovery means planning for the restoration and rehabilitation of the social, economic, natural and built environments of greater Christchurch taking into account the specific needs of the CBD, the rural sector and the affected residential suburbs.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000658\u0022\u003E4B\tDefinition of Community Participation\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000659\u0022\u003ECommunity Participation means openly engaging with the affected communities in partnership with key stakeholders to\u2014\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000660\u0022\u003E(a)\tinvolve local people in joint learning and public decision making;\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000661\u0022\u003E(b)\tcapitalise on local culture and knowledge:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000662\u0022\u003E(c)\tmobilise local capacity to rebuild:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000663\u0022\u003E(d)\tenable local communities to make choices that build safe and sustainable communities:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000664\u0022\u003E(e)\tsecure the positive attributes of the community and discard the negative elements and thereby entrench resilience.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221541943499a54704867662acd2626b3a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000665\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 232 in the name of Dr Kennedy Graham to clause 6 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225d86a0dfafa041cd9a14f756fd827e6b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000666\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendments in the name of Brendon Burns to clause 6 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000667\u0022\u003Eto insert the following subclauses after subclause (2):\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000668\u0022\u003E(2A)\tThe community forum will include the chair or a member nominated by the chair of each community board from each Canterbury authority where a community board exists.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000669\u0022\u003E(2B)\tThe Minister, in inviting persons to participate in the forum, will include representatives nominated by the following organisations:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000670\u0022\u003E(a)\tthe Christchurch City Council:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000671\u0022\u003E(b)\tthe Selwyn District Council:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000672\u0022\u003E(c)\tthe Waimakariri District Council:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000673\u0022\u003E(d)\tCanCERN:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000674\u0022\u003E(e)\trepresentatives from other affected communities;\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000675\u0022\u003E(f)\trepresentatives from the business, health, education, heritage and union sectors.;\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000676\u0022\u003Eto omit from subclause (3) \u201C6 times a year\u201D and substitute \u201Cmonthly\u201D; and\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000677\u0022\u003Eto add the following subclause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000678\u0022\u003E(5)\tWithin 2 weeks following every meeting the community forum must publish in the Gazette a report on the Minister and chief executive\u2019s performance in meeting community engagement requirements. \u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022129c098ed070450a8652ed31643f67bd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000679\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Lianne Dalziel to clause 7 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000680\u0022\u003Eto omit from subclause (1) \u201Cfrom time to time\u201D and substitute \u201Cat least monthly\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002293ec3df79a194dc3a01476057cd2dc8a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000681\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 232 in the name of Dr Kennedy Graham to clause 7 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227e2ed51bb66742d38b4c2ef32af78b5e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000682\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Clayton Cosgrove be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000683\u0022\u003Eto insert the following clause after clause 7: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000684\u0022\u003E7A\tRelationship with local authorities\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000685\u0022\u003E\tThe Minister must meet at least quarterly with council mayors and the chairperson of the regional council. \u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a99752c0e0e44f15a57c55bddc16a8e3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000686\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Lianne Dalziel be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000687\u0022\u003Eto insert the following clause after clause 7: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000688\u0022\u003E7A\tJoint community and cross-party forum\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000689\u0022\u003E(1)\tThe Minister must arrange for the cross-party parliamentary forum and the community forum to meet together with the Minister.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000690\u0022\u003E(2)\tThe Minister must ensure that the meeting is held at least 6 monthly.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000691\u0022\u003E(3)\tOne of the purposes of the meeting is to provide feedback to the Minister on the community participation in the recovery effort led by CERA.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bc1f51498a0d488e8fb381d65c817e61\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000692\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 236 in the name of Dr Kennedy Graham to clause 10 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002234dca45be628440e97c61635ceac4c0a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000693\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Lianne Dalziel to clause 11 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000694\u0022\u003Eto omit from subclause (3) \u201Cmay\u201D and substitute \u201Cmust\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022683440f5c8284977a32ea18cde7b97ec\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000695\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Lianne Dalziel to clause 11 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000696\u0022\u003Eto insert in subclause (3) the following paragraph after paragraph (a):\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000697\u0022\u003E(ab)\tthe spatial distribution of social, cultural, and environmental assets and those that contribute to community wellbeing.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b34a8b7446e64068923386e273d84eef\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000698\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendments in the name of the Hon Ruth Dyson to clause 11 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000699\u0022\u003Eto insert in subclause (4) \u201CChristchurch District Health Board\u201D after \u201CTe R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu\u201D; and\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000700\u0022\u003Eto insert the following subclause after subclause (4):\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000701\u0022\u003E(4A)\tIn developing the Recovery Strategy the chief executive must give effect to the New Zealand Disability Strategy.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022118fed7fa6474fd58c6da5790ea24337\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000702\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Lianne Dalziel to clause 12 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000703\u0022\u003Eto insert the following subclause after sublcause (1):\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000704\u0022\u003E(1A)\tNotwithstanding subsection (1), the Minister must provide for community engagement in the development of the Recovery Strategy.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022df33d6aa1db44dd09bba9467308f5b8c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000705\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 235 in the name of Dr Kennedy Graham to clause 15 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002259b8e75a190d48d4852c85e982051eff\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000706\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Lianne Dalziel to clause 15 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000707\u0022\u003Eto omit subclause (2) and substitute the following subclause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000708\u0022\u003E(2)\tOn and from the notification in the Gazette of the Order in Council approving the Recovery Strategy, the Recovery Strategy is to be read together with and forms any part of the document or instrument.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226e557b4d916f47668edb19fc70b7d936\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000709\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Brendon Burns to clause 17 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000710\u0022\u003Eto insert the following subclause after subclause (1):\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000711\u0022\u003E(1A)\tIn developing the Recovery Plan for the CBD the Christchurch City Council must not propose the full or partial sale of any assets which it or any of its subsidiaries hold.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022050a00a197214ef8908e2d46c8aa5780\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2e72e1ca169418ab0943f1bacc148df\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: We have a typescript amendment to clause 18 in the name of the Hon Clayton Cosgrove. This is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Ruth Dyson to clause 20 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003Eto insert in subclause (1) \u201Ccommunity participation\u201D after \u201Cconsultation\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002268229ebc60a3472eb1b35b2a40efaea3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000715\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 235 in the name of Dr Kennedy Graham to clause 20 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c34799871e8549029f8bd19317bfa35b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000716\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Clayton Cosgrove to clause 20 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000717\u0022\u003Eto omit subclause (3) and substitute the following subclause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000718\u0022\u003E(3)\tThe process for the development of a Recovery Plan must include 1 or more public hearings, as determined by the chief executive, at which members of the public may appear and must be heard.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002244fcc273e31741cc9eed1b325cf89109\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000719\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Ruth Dyson to clause 20 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000720\u0022\u003Eto add the following subclause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000721\u0022\u003E(5)\tFor the purposes of subsection (2), the direction must include a requirement for all recovery plans to give consideration to the New Zealand Disability Strategy.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022990d7dddb0c24c938d94c8e78087693a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 58\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; M\u0101ori Party 4; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 64\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000722\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Clayton Cosgrove to clause 21 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000723\u0022\u003Eto add the following subclause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000724\u0022\u003E(5)\tNo recovery plan shall be approved without an impact assessment being completed to assess the social, cultural, environmental, and community impacts.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022df4e076aecb54831bfbe886d19f566a9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 4; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa5b4089b3bc4de491cd2bad2f5ceebe\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The next amendment to clause 22 in the name of the Hon Ruth Dyson is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 236 in the name of Dr Kennedy Graham to clause 24 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222c991f64bbb445b88c5e035c92b0cb8c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000727\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Lianne Dalziel to clause 26 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000728\u0022\u003Eto omit subclause (3) and substitute the following subclause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000729\u0022\u003E(3)\tA Recovery Plan is to be read together with and forms part of the instruments to which subsection (1) applies.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222b179f19066746f5bd4db807b14aaf9d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000730\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Brendon Burns to clause 27 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000731\u0022\u003Eto add to subclause (1)(d) the following subparagraph:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000732\u0022\u003E(vii)\ta regional public transport plan under the Public Transport Management Act 2008.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022adec233b77f34f53a9c064a57ec5b5f4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000733\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 236 in the name of Dr Kennedy Graham to clause 27 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002202373ef4cdff42839000f8efb79b5a22\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000734\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Clayton Cosgrove to clause 27 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000735\u0022\u003Eto omit subclause (7) and substitute the following subclause: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000736\u0022\u003E(7)\tCompensation is payable under this Act for any loss suffered as a result of an action taken under this section. \u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224e05592c6291461fa713d9867a44696b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000737\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 236 in the name of Dr Kennedy Graham to clause 30 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022587e17bb55624829b85c6c781cc0b48d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000738\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Lianne Dalziel to clauses 31 and 32 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000739\u0022\u003Eto omit these clauses. \u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d357d818d79b4e3e87f58fdd3ebdfbcc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221edcf67428154551872a96c5c4001159\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The next amendment to clause 48 in the name of the Hon Clayton Cosgrove is out of order as being the same in substance as a previous amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Ruth Dyson to clause 49 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003Eto insert the following subclause after subclause (1):\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E(1A)\tThe Minister must engage with CERA, the local authority and the council organisation on the proposed notice and the Minister must have regard to any information he or she is given by the affected organisations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222509fba71cc04b7aa638dd2d3a7aeaa6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000744\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Clayton Cosgrove to clause 50 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000745\u0022\u003Eto add the following subclause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000746\u0022\u003E(6)\tThe council or council organisation may appeal to the High Court against a decision of a Minister under subsection (1).\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ef7a1726116e490496f339abe2115f1d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000747\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Lianne Dalziel to clause 54 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000748\u0022\u003Eto add the following subclause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000749\u0022\u003E(8)\tTo avoid doubt, all interests in land compulsorily acquired under this section, including, but not limited to a mortgagee, are nullified.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022da7031f9e24a4e96b40fcf4fa6444bb7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be3b8851c75c43ffb6c93941018789fd\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The amendment in the name of the Hon Ruth Dyson to clause 68 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Lianne Dalziel to clause 70 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003Eto omit from subclause (1) \u201Cor expedient\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e2008f0ac77f4b988c34f9d9f1427fb6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000753\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 233 in the name of Dr Kennedy Graham to clause 70 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bb9e1589ce644587aa3c96a97589affb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000754\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Clayton Cosgrove to clause 70 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000755\u0022\u003Eto omit from subclause (3) \u201Cinclude (without limitation)\u201D and substitute \u201Care\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022508e5c30b376455884e3630650dc9226\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000756\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 234 in the name of Dr Kennedy Graham to clause 71 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022482d7a532efe47aabc3dc99077e79da1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000757\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 234 in the name of Dr Kennedy Graham to clause 72 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c529af60934947afb489e5cdda47064c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000758\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Ruth Dyson to clause 72 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000759\u0022\u003Eto insert the following subclause after subclause (2):\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000760\u0022\u003E(2A)\tA copy of all draft Orders in Council must be provided to all political parties in the House of Representatives on the same date on which they are provided to the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Review Panel.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c52063f31f6b40f1b52dda6ce2d2186b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000761\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 233 in the name of Dr Kennedy Graham to clause 73 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b83107ec015a44c8a4a5c2ce6ad8317c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000762\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Lianne Dalziel to clause 73 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000763\u0022\u003Eto omit subclause (2).\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ac641a80abb6451ea75996c67dbce915\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000764\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Lianne Dalziel to clause 74 be agreed to: \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000765\u0022\u003Eto add the following subclause:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000766\u0022\u003E(6)\tTo avoid doubt, nothing in subsection (5) limits the right to challenge the validity of regulations by way of judicial review.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ae124dde2ceb419886921401384dae43\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022191c08fe8fb74812886b62f2ccc1456e\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The amendment to clause 83 in the name of the Hon Clayton Cosgrove is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Brendon Burns to clause 87 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003Eto add the following subclause:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E(3)\tFor clarification the description will list the instances in which each power was exercised, whether notification and/or consultation was required and carried out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002273a79201961240f08dccbbfac1ae064e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4ae63031b724e84b4938d9f8e1c062e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4ae63031b724e84b4938d9f8e1c062e\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I seek your advice briefly on a procedure. You will recall that during the Committee stage of the debate, one of my amendments was being discussed, and the Minister in the chair, the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery, agreed to give it consideration if it was worded in a different way. As he spoke, I wrote it out and tabled it, thinking that the Minister would then do as he had offered and give it consideration. He did, but he then referred it to his officials, for a reason that I do not understand but I guess that is not important. I was then given by his officials\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec8f8c3fef7b4156a7e1b6e77feec78b\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I have an answer to the member for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e7e39960bc14387977e373fe4ae7b43\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I have not asked the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bfc6d8d71a14a12bee6148027b3aea3\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is for consideration of the amendment. It was lodged after we had started the vote on the questions, so\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a5e60a79f7643b5ae64bb61b72cca4f\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: That was not my question. If you would not mind, Mr Chairperson\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b4f6ac742614953830cc6baf9b90d29\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear the Hon Ruth Dyson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f35b292dfd284cccb68792ad239bc7f1\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. The officials gave me what the Minister had then agreed to, I presume, but it was past the time at which I could table it. The officials gave it to me after the voting had started and, therefore, the Minister was not able to deliver it. I ask whether there is any way of seeking leave for that reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a91527ce6b7b4354b1e2a8f6754b39bb\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, certainly. I invite the member to seek leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5e8220da4a947dfa94846ca31c375a0\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an amendment as I have just outlined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277f1a48eb3f0494193cf8e392c3d5a31\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is being sought to table this amendment in the name of the Hon Ruth Dyson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268937330ac0b4bbcb8cd5e53f3433317\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: And allow voting on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f98fe414303d489f964a5908151ab447\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, we are tabling it. Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is no objection. We now move to a vote on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022883799f15d304e99a2b5eb4b5bd2791b\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have to seek leave for that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bef264f4a1734c8b9f5c90aa6c6c2f0f\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch)\u003C/span\u003E: No, because we already have leave. That is what we have just done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Ruth Dyson to clause 20 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003Eto insert in subclause (2) the following paragraph after paragraph (c):\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E(ca)\tThe New Zealand Disability Strategy; and.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002203618871da4c4d50950accefd97ed9f8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clauses 1 and 2, Parts 1 and 2, and schedules 1 and 2, as amended, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 109\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2, Parts 1 and 2, and schedules 1 and 2, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000789\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000790\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002297e703c797324723bf2046061f1f3ce1\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b75db820810e42f1a8b104bd76b3f41e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b75db820810e42f1a8b104bd76b3f41e\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill be now read a third time. The events of the last couple of days and the last few hours have been, I think, quite interesting. Personally, it has been a bit like being at an encounter group, finding out all the worst foibles of one\u2019s personality, etc. But those matters are pretty unimportant when we consider the lives that have been so disrupted in Christchurch now for such a very long time. The passing of this bill does not change that immediately; it provides a framework for a transition from a state of emergency to a state of urgency, leading towards what we hope will be a very full recovery in a speedier period of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EBefore I make any further comments, I want to thank the officials who have worked with me on this bill, particularly Benesia Smith, Rosalind Plimmer, John Ombler, Matthew Palmer, and many others. They have worked tirelessly over the last couple of weeks to make sure we had a bill that covered as many bases as we could anticipate in the lead-up to what I hope will be the development of a series of recovery plans for the Greater Christchurch area and the Canterbury province under a single strategy that will be developed over the next 9 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWhile there was a big team working on things here, there was an even bigger team working down in Christchurch. Thousands of people are going the extra mile, doing that extra bit, to try to make life a little easier for their fellow Cantabrians, their fellow residents of Christchurch City. I pay particular tribute to those who are doing the difficult part of the job\u2014in the trenches, up to their elbows in the muck trying to connect the pipes, trying to put the electricity back on, trying to make sure that the waste water runs away, and trying to make sure that water is connected to houses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThose people have done very long hours. They continue to work hard and go that extra mile, and they will keep doing that, we hope, for some time to come. I want to acknowledge that huge contribution in the very practical sense and the very practical way in which it is delivered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI do not think we need to spend a lot of time rehearsing aspects of the bill. I make a commitment to work with Bob Parker, David Ayers, and Kelvin Coe, and their executive teams under Tony Marriott, Paul Davey, and Jim Palmer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge the work done over the last couple of weeks, through their giving of advice on the bill, by Mark Solomon and Sasha McMeeking from Ng\u0101i Tahu, and the many others in the community who have expressed their views, particularly those who took time to make submissions, albeit at short notice, to the Local Government and Environment Committee. The bill reflects many of the comments that were made during that hearing of evidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI have great confidence that this bill provides the sort of framework we need to effect a solid recovery in the Greater Christchurch area. There are two aspects on which I want to make very brief comments. The first is the cross-party forum. Although we can have a little bit of acrimony about process and everything else, as we move forward we will need a lot more unity, and I make it clear that it is my intention to engage properly with that cross-party forum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI acknowledge that there was a discussion after the hearing of evidence last night, when a number of things were shared in confidence, and those confidences have been kept, and I think that shows the underlying effort that people are making to understand and to be part of a bigger solution for people in Canterbury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI also want to give a commitment that the community forum will be a body that is representative of the many organisations and persons out there who have become leaders in our community but do not have a particular elected role. It goes without saying that, in working in collaboration with the Christchurch City Council in particular, there will need to be engagement with community boards as well as at council level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI express my great empathy for the great difficulties that everyone in Christchurch is facing at the present time, but also my great confidence that we will emerge from this event as a very, very strong city. We will have a central business district, the development of which will be led by the city council, that will be one of the safest places in the southern hemisphere to live, and I think it will meet many of the tests that one would expect to apply to a city that looks forward to hundreds of years of success in the future. I look forward to the passing of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5bf5a23afaa4e66ae63a26d4cc96042\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5bf5a23afaa4e66ae63a26d4cc96042\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Like all Canterbury members and other members of this House who have taken the trouble and shown the commitment to come down and assist the fellow members of our community, I understand very clearly the difficulties our fellow citizens are dealing with. When we had a number of memorial speeches in the Parliament I think I used the phrase that there is a dust cloud\u2014a metaphorical one now, at least\u2014hanging over the people of Canterbury. I think I said that cloud is filled with tears, the tears of people who have lost loved ones, who have lost their livelihoods and their homes, and who have had their lives disrupted and their children\u2019s lives disrupted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI also said at the time that I believe we will rebuild our province. We will rebuild it, and it will reflect the grit, the generosity of spirit, and the good nature and guts of the people of Canterbury. We will have a modern city and we will have a modern province, although it is hard to look constituents in the eye and make that commitment to them. It is hard for those constituents to believe that, especially those who still do not have the basics of life, such as a toilet. Elderly folk still have to go down in the early hours of the morning to a thing called a Portaloo, which is a pretty ugly encounter for those of us in our younger years, let alone for those vulnerable people in our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI note, as I have noted throughout this debate, the Labour members of Parliament, Ruth Dyson, Brendon Burns, and Lianne Dalziel. Lianne cannot participate in this debate, given that she is required in Christchurch at another public meeting assisting her community, but I think it is noteworthy to breach the Standing Orders in that respect, and note that she cannot be present. Jim Anderton has also worked diligently, as has Kennedy Graham. All those members on this side of the House have committed in good faith. We keep our word to this process. We have kept our word. In fact, in my capacity I have stood in public meetings that I have organised and actually defended Gerry Brownlee and his Government when I thought it was appropriate. That is not in my nature, I have to say, but there is a higher calling in respect of this disaster we face. When cheap shots have been taken I have stood and defended the Earthquake Commission, defended Mr Brownlee, and defended his motives and his Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI have to say our commitment to a bipartisan process has been sorely tested by that member in the last few weeks, not just in the last few days, when we have received commitments from the Minister, when he has looked us in the eye and said he will do certain things, and provide certain information. He has then\u2014without a flinch, I have to say, and that shows the character of the man\u2014observed that he has changed his mind and breached those commitments. I observed that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe and the people of Canterbury have been placed in a situation in which legislation, the powers of which I have certainly not seen in my time in this Parliament, has been put before this House in such a way that it has not had proper scrutiny. There will be people watching the show, as it were, and people who are listening who are in deep trouble in Canterbury, and they are probably saying \u201CLook, Clayton, you guys just work together and get on with it.\u201D We understand that principle, and we agree with that principle. I say to those folks that indeed we need to get on with it, but our commitment and the expectation of the people of Canterbury was that this Parliament would deliver legislation to them that would meet and exceed their needs, that would help them as swiftly as possible to get their lives back, their homes back, and their livelihoods back, and that would restore them to a place where they were prior to 4 September and a better place, of course, than prior to the 22 February disaster. The people of Canterbury expect us to deliver the best possible authority for them, and the best possible outcome for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI say to the people of Canterbury that that has not been possible today, because the Minister has embarked on a course akin to that of a parliamentary steamroller. He did accede to a 1-day select committee\u2014it was not actually a day; it was 4 hours and 40 minutes of public hearings, plus deliberation. Out of that select committee, interestingly, came all but one of the amendments that the Minister put on the Table of the House, I think 4\u00BD hours into the Committee stage. Had it not been for that select committee process that the Opposition demanded\u2014and we demanded it because there are experts out there who have contributed in a positive way to this bill\u2014the Minister, it seems, would have had but one amendment, as he trots off to an early shower.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226154f3fd4dd54ddb939f22f951613978\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: No, no!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc2e2347238b442f8e542f55cd627e9b\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I can say that. I tell members to read their Standing Orders of the House of Representatives. I say had we not had that select committee process, the Law Society; the Legislation Advisory Committee; the three local authorities who received very short notice\u2014a few hours\u2019 notice\u2014to attend; the Insurance Council, critical to the process; the Canterbury District Health Board; and other elected folk would not have had any opportunity to bring their views forward, and bring their positive ideas. It must have been positive for the Minister, because his Supplementary Order Paper contained all of their ideas and only one of his own. So that is a win for the people of Canterbury. But then that Supplementary Order Paper was not allowed to have appropriate scrutiny, and we will be guillotined in about an hour and 5 minutes, because that is the process that Mr Brownlee has embarked upon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EWe support the legislation. We will support it. Even though we have grave reservations about the quality and whether it will deliver for our people, we will, and have given a public commitment to do so, continue to work with the Government to attempt to make the legislation work for the people of Canterbury: for all those people Mr Brownlee mentioned who have worked their guts out in the last 6 or 7 months to help their fellow Cantabrians; for those people around New Zealand who have contributed money and time and who just appeared in Christchurch, in Kaiapoi and Mount Pleasant, with shovels in their hands to help people; for those people who now shed a tear most nights because they do not know when they will get their lives and their houses back; for those people in Kaiapoi who have been told that it could be 3\u00BD years\u2014despite the fantastic work of the Waimakariri District Council, which has set a benchmark and a template for all other local authorities in our region\u2014for those people who shed a tear because it will take, sadly, 3\u00BD years for some of those people to get the keys to their new home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EBut I say to this House that I think Cantabrians expected better from us, better from this Parliament. There will be those, I am sure, who will get up, as Mr Brownlee and others have, and as did the member for Taup\u014D, I think it is, who got up and spat some political acid over to this side of the House, accused us of playing politics, and accused us of\u2014I cannot remember the exact words\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e36fa869fe0419083923f4d87b11506\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Petty politics!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be03adda70424fdca62e826937daebb4\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014petty politics, yes. She spat some political bile over to this side of the House, as is her wont.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d4179bd11a24dfa9e446478ef341bc0\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re sick of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d75f1f6d47ec45c8b1ab173125ef76e2\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that says it all. The people of Christchurch are not sick of members of Parliament\u2014the Green member, Mr Anderton, myself, and others\u2014who got up and proposed amendments in a serious way to ensure that this bill is in the best possible shape it could be, despite the political acid and bile that has been spat from that member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI will not resile from anything I have said or any criticisms I have made, because those criticisms are made in good faith, and they are made to ensure that there is accountability. There is a clause in this bill called an ouster clause, clause 73(2), and it reads thus: \u201CThe recommendation of the relevant Minister may not be challenged, reviewed, quashed, or called into question in any court.\u201D That is the sort of \u201Ctsar clause\u201D. It cannot be challenged by any legal organ in this land. If that power, which is absolute, is used appropriately and with diligence and discipline to help the people of Canterbury, then we will support the use of that clause. But if it is abused and if it is used in a surreptitious way, and if it is used without transparency or without accountability, then we will expose that, and the member for Taup\u014D will again spit acid and say that we are being political. Well, so be it. That is the nature of democracy and the nature of being a parliamentarian in this place\u2014to hold to account the absolute power that the Minister and his Government will have, as well as him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003EI will finish on this point: John Key made a pledge after 4 September, a public pledge that was repeated by locals at many a public meeting I held, that no one in Canterbury would be worse off. That is the acid test he will be judged by. Mr Brownlee is now shouldering the burden of this legislation squarely himself, because in this process he quashed every amendment, bar one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u00228c6a1eb0d14f44b5ba93ed4df73cdb5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c6a1eb0d14f44b5ba93ed4df73cdb5c\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National\u2014West Coast - Tasman):\u003C/span\u003E I fully support the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022998d6528ea564fa2900a10d014708b06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022998d6528ea564fa2900a10d014708b06\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I am not quite sure what time the last plane to the West Coast leaves, but I guess the previous speaker, Chris Auchinvole, wants to be on it. I would have thought that after chairing the Local Government and Environment Committee, a little more of a contribution may have been justified, but the member obviously thought otherwise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI begin by saying that I will leave the Chamber committed to doing everything I possibly can to make sure that the legislation we are about to pass, the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill, is successful. We need an enduring and sustainable recovery in our region. If the bill is the mechanism we have been asked to deliver that recovery through, then we will give it our very best shot. That is the most important goal for us to have from today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe debate on the legislation has not been as I would have wished it to be. Politicians\u2014and I have seen a few in my time in Parliament and even before I came into this House\u2014have different skills. Some do not use any of their skills, and some use their skills a lot. A number of politicians have the ability to explain a proposal and take with them people of many different political persuasions. Some politicians do that even with their own caucus. But other members\u2014and the Hon Gerry Brownlee has demonstrated this skill in the last few days\u2014have the ability to take a politically neutral commitment to working together for the betterment of our region and turn it upside down into resentment, frustration, and division. I do not know why. I do not know why anyone would want to do that. We all enjoy scoring points at each other\u2019s expense in this place from time to time\u2014perhaps with the exception of my colleague from Canterbury, Kennedy Graham, who does not seem to enjoy that but makes a jolly fine contribution in Parliament regardless\u2014but when we have such an important issue, which has been created through death and the destruction of the largest city in the South Island, I would have thought we could get beyond point-scoring. But we did not seem to be able to. I would have thought we would say to everyone in the House: \u201CPlease give us your best ideas and we will make the most of them.\u201D We have had a wasted opportunity. That is a shame. The bill was an opportunity that should have been grasped by Gerry Brownlee. He would have been amazed at the energy that we could have contributed to the debate and therefore to the recovery. He would have been overwhelmed by the enthusiasm with which the invitation would have been broadly received by Cantabrians. I know that people would have welcomed the opportunity to have a genuine input into the legislative framework for our recovery for the next 5 years. It is quite important to us. We want to be part of it, and we were denied that opportunity. It is a waste, it is a shame, and I do not understand why the Minister chose that path when the other one would have been so attractive, so much more successful, and, frankly, so much easier for him. I am sure he will explain it when he writes his book, but for now we will remain puzzled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI acknowledge my Labour and Green colleagues whom I have been working alongside for many years but particularly since the September quake and the more recent February quake. Lianne Dalziel is a tireless worker for her electorate. She has led the rebuild and recovery process in her electorate, which is challenged with more inequities than other electorates and which has been devastated twice. Nobody understands the force of nature and the unfairness of it\u2014it cannot be explained\u2014but Lianne has led information distribution to her constituents so that they could at least understand the physical forces of nature that have destroyed their suburbs, their homes, and, for many people, their lives. She has represented her electorate extraordinarily strongly. She continues to do so, and it is to my regret\u2014and I am sure the House\u2019s\u2014that none of her amendments were given the consideration they should have received.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge Clayton Cosgrove, who is the Labour leader on earthquake issues in our region. He has been a strong and staunch advocate not just for his electorate but for the broader consideration of earthquake issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns, as the member of Parliament for Christchurch Central, has not only the most devastated red zone within his constituency but also the business community and many residents who have been very harshly affected. He has continuously represented their views, needs, and aspirations through appropriate channels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EKennedy Graham had his office destroyed and has recently started driving around our city in a very flash mobile office. I welcome him into my electorate any time, because I enjoy working with him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe amendments we put forward we thought would improve the bill. I really genuinely do not believe that every single one of our amendments, bar one, from those members I have just named\u2014Kennedy Graham, Brendon Burns, Clayton Cosgrove, Lianne Dalziel, and me\u2014should have been defeated. I believed the commitment the Minister gave to me personally, to my face, that the amendments would be considered properly. I am stunned. I am not politically na\u00EFve, so I should not be stunned, but I am stunned that I have been so cheated on such an important issue by a fellow Cantabrian. I do not care what party Gerry Brownlee is in, but I am really stunned that I have been cheated in that way. I would not have thought that of all members the Hon John Carter would find it amusing. Of all members I thought he would be the one who would share my frustration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI will touch briefly on the select committee process. It was unusual, as has been mentioned during the Committee and second reading stages. I acknowledge Chris Auchinvole. I have never been on a select committee with him for any length of time. He is a very good chairman of the committee. He made us all behave in a way we were not inclined to at the start. We got a better contribution in the debate as a result. He treated submitters with respect. He set a fine example for all of us in this Parliament on the way to conduct ourselves in a difficult environment with difficult submissions being heard. It was very frustrating to not have the bill before us and to not have any advisers at the committee. We were very frustrated at not being able to get information from advisers in relation to what the submitters told us, and the submitters were frustrated as well. The process is not one I would recommend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI also thank the people who made submissions. As has been mentioned previously in this debate, most of the people who made submissions saw the bill as it was introduced into this parliament or an hour later. When we found out the bill was not on the website, Clayton Cosgrove raised a point of order\u2014as members may recall\u2014and explained to the Speaker that it was not on the website. The Clerk\u2019s office got on the job, and the bill was on the website within a matter of minutes. That was the first time that many of the people who presented a submission to us had seen the bill. It was 4 o\u2019clock on Tuesday afternoon, and at 10 o\u2019clock on Wednesday morning they were giving us a submission on the bill. That is not an acceptable process for minor legislation, let alone legislation that gives extraordinary powers, with very few checks and balances, to one person. It makes it more difficult when we feel so cheated of goodwill throughout this process to then be asked to trust the Minister to use those extraordinary powers in the way the legislation requires and in the way that is best for our city. I would hope that we do get a better response to that ambition in future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ELabour put forward a minority report on this bill, because we felt so strongly about our concerns, and, tragically, not all of them have been listened to, let alone addressed. The constitutional aspects, the overwhelming powers that are given to the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery, the length of time, and the lack of transparency and accountability are major concerns. The fact that the community does not drive the recovery process will be to our detriment, and we will do everything we can to change that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EAs I said at the beginning of my speech, I will leave the House this evening committed to doing everything I can to ensure that this legislation delivers the sort of vision we all share for a strong and sustainable recovery for our region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a76a5e9c06c54ba0bedd6474af97dbc3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a76a5e9c06c54ba0bedd6474af97dbc3\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E This is a rather historic moment. Apart from in wartime New Zealand I think we are passing into law arguably the most Draconian legislation ever passed by a New Zealand Parliament. I do not wish to be melodramatic, but we have experienced a dramatic event, and the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill is a dramatic bill. It has generated much heat, yet only occasionally some light\u2014but enough light\u2014to shine a faint torch on what we are doing here today. This bill is a dusty mirror to who we are as a society. It raises issues of an underlying nature, I think, about our national identity, our national style, and our beliefs, and I shall say more about that later. In the meantime let me make three points. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThe fundamental issue at stake is that this bill accords unprecedented peacetime powers to the Government in the name of recovery from a natural disaster. Those powers are justified on the basis that extraordinary events justify extraordinary legislation, or \u201Cgoing the extra mile\u201D, as the Minister has just put it. That is the fundamental premise on which the Government rests its legislation. The Green Party rejects that premise and believes it has refuted it. An extraordinary event does not in itself require or justify extraordinary powers. It requires extraordinary effort\u2014yes; extraordinary compassion\u2014we are showing it; and extraordinary cooperation\u2014we are getting there. It does not necessitate extraordinary powers. We are told the people of Christchurch are crying out for these powers to be rushed through, for a focused, timely, and expedited recovery. The Green Party is being told precisely the opposite. We are being told people want to engage, want legitimacy, and want to express a vision. They are being denied that under this bill. The people of Christchurch would have preferred 2 more weeks of the state of emergency so that the bill could be properly debated. So we in the Green Party are critical of the process by which this bill is being born. It says little of its genealogy and it portends badly for any progeny that might\u2014God help us\u2014follow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EMy second point is this: why make central government sovereign over a local municipality, as this bill does? Why the overriding assumption that national government knows better than local government? We reject that notion. Local government knows its city better than national government. Has anybody heard of the Christchurch City Council aspiring to run the country? I see the seeds of the substantive problem I am identifying even within the process itself. At yesterday\u2019s select committee hearing, down south, the Christchurch City Council was essentially in disarray. The mayor was, regrettably, absent. Clearly, something more important than this legislation detained him. The councillors had never seen the draft. Some of them think they have been consulted about the concept, though this is rather unclear. The deputy mayor rather hesitatingly expressed general support, but then, in a forlorn and poignant action, the council appealed for collaboration from central government and sought a protection of its statutory powers and rights. Other councillors spoke out against the process and the substance. There was, I sensed, a touch of apprehension. That is generally how these things begin\u2014with just a look in the eye. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EMy third point is that there has been a tendency, probably a decision, about mixing all phases into one in the name of justifying these powers. We should be seeing three phases: an emergency, when central government is, naturally, in control; a recovery, when central and local government cooperate; and a rebuild, when local government is in control. But we are seeing central government retaining the purple robe over the lot. There are too many rationales here. Are these extraordinary powers justified? So said Mussolini, so said Musharraf, and so says Bainimarama. They talk of the doctrine of necessity, and we recall what ultimately happens to all these regimes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EMy final comment is this. The bill is a commentary on who we are. New Zealanders are, by and large, by nature not a theoretically minded people. We like to see ourselves as pragmatic and casual, decent and fair-minded. No. 8 wire takes precedence over encyclopaedic script. We tenaciously refuse to write a formal constitution, proud of our British heritage. We disbanded the Upper Chamber on the grounds it might get in the way. We are slow to write into the books our natural obligations pertaining to human rights and freedom of information. We glue our society together on personalised trust rather than idealised obligation. These ingredients make for a fragile society, more fragile than we realise. The pure taste of these ingredients is in this legislation, which the New Zealand Parliament, claiming sufficient electoral strength to muster the numbers, is about to adopt in the name of we the people, whose characteristics we witnessed today. In this bill we have ridden roughshod over the statute book. We have pushed the bill through a unicameral Parliament. We have suspended certain basic rights, and we have rested its operationalisation on the blithe assurance of personal trust, the trust of one Minister backed by a group of Ministers. Is this the moment to acknowledge that in the forty-ninth Parliament, whose time is not yet at an end, we have witnessed the resignation of two Ministers on the grounds of violating political and personal trust? Every society, when it starts down the road to repression, claims that extraordinary events justify extraordinary law. That is the basis of martial law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003ELet us not opt out of human society and claim that because we are pragmatic, casual, decent, and fair-minded we are different. We are not. We have witnessed emergency powers prevailing in countries we know well. It is not just Egypt and Syria. I know what it is to live in societies where freedoms are circumscribed or where situations are tense. I have lived in Jordan, a beautiful and wonderful nation, where to criticise the king would place one in serious trouble. I have entered Haiti 3 days after a dictator was ousted, and the sandbags with machine guns peered out at people. I have been to Burundi between genocides, where we appealed in the Parliament at Bujumbura for calm and mutual understanding. That experience, incidentally, carries a personal note that illustrates my point. On that occasion I took eight members of Parliament with me from around the world. Four were from the West, four were from Africa. Our lead parliamentarian was an outstanding Opposition leader from West Africa. He was renowned for his courage, his acumen, and, above all, for his compassion for the people. He later went on to become a popular president whom the people loved and trusted. Who was that man? He was Laurent Gbagbo. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EIs Africa so very different from these far-flung shaky isles we call home? Are we so benighted as to say yes, so provincial as to believe ourselves to be superior? To those who might, let me refer them to Chile, Argentina, Mexico, and Uruguay, and respond to the obvious prejudice\u2014and, of course, Italy and Germany. We generally relate to those countries and others in times of trouble. I ask colleagues not to think we are immune. It is not that I do not trust Gerry Brownlee; it is that I do not trust myself. I would feel reassured if we had a codified constitution and that our constitution foresaw such an event and required for it in a measured and prescient manner, rather than require, through our constitutional ineptitude, this kind of legislative nightmare. We could take the example of a close Commonwealth partner, India, from whom we could learn much about democratic principle. India has a constitutional arrangement for a state of emergency in its framework. It has declared emergencies three times in its history. That is not to comment on the precise states of emergency that India has declared\u2014they are controversial, each one\u2014but rather to focus on the fact that India has a constitutional framework for a state of emergency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003EThe Civil Defence Emergency Management Act, and the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill do not do it. If we have learnt anything from this episode, it is not about how courageously we are surviving the physical ordeal\u2014we all knew we would. After all, we once were warriors, Celtic and Polynesian. If we have learnt anything it is what we do not know, or know less well, about ourselves\u2014call it the political ordeal. If there is one lesson of today, it is that we need to enshrine this kind of reserve power in a constitution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u0022adb6e798aff6443fa7de291e7e173092\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adb6e798aff6443fa7de291e7e173092\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the ACT Party to speak on the third reading of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill. This is not the sort of legislation that the ACT Party would normally consider supporting, and I have to say that although I do not often agree with the Green member Kennedy Graham, on this occasion I agree with just about everything he mentioned in his speech. I think the points that he has made certainly resonate for others in the House. But we do have exceptional circumstances in Canterbury at the moment, and we need to be able to move forward and help Cantabrians, and the people of Christchurch, as best we can in these circumstances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EThe Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery assured us at select committee and in the Chamber that he will not use the powers that Parliament is bestowing on the Government and, particularly, on the Minister responsible for the Canterbury recovery\u2014he will act very responsibly; and I think this Chamber has to trust his word on that. Certainly, that will be tested in the forthcoming months, and, in fact, in the forthcoming years. Although this is not legislation that we would normally support, we are today supporting the Government in these measures. We will be watching very carefully to see how things progress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003EI will also make a very short comment on the select committee process in respect of this urgency motion. It was pleasing that the Minister agreed to have hearings of evidence, and I congratulate him on that. But I have to say that the process followed was less than what we would have liked to see. In particular, the lack of technical advice really did hinder the committee in coming quickly to the best decisions. I agree with some of the others in the speeches that they have made already in the Chamber in saying that we wanted the very best for people in Canterbury, and in order to do that we needed to have the best advice available to us. I think that is a lesson for the future, and I hope that will be recognised and realised if this sort of occasion arises again. The ACT Party supports this legislation, but I think those points have been important to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u00227db2f0f1b9d14d148a419d512f7436ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227db2f0f1b9d14d148a419d512f7436ef\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Kingi T\u0101whiao P\u014Dtatau Te Wherowhero left us the immortal words \u201CKi te k\u0101hore he whakakitenga ka ngaro te iwi\u201D\u2014without foresight or vision, the people will be lost. At this time, in the third reading of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill, it is important that we consider those words as we evaluate all the checks and balances that have been built into the Act. Have we provided sufficient opportunity for the vision of the people to come forth? Throughout all of the powers created under the bill to ensure a focused, timely, and coordinated recovery effort, is there also flexibility\u2014and, importantly, willingness\u2014to allow for the natural foresight of all our people to shine through? Have we listened? Are we prepared to listen and learn?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe bill specifies that the powers legislated for in Parliament today are mainly reserve powers, to be used only if they are necessary. It also stipulates that checks will be in place to guard against the inappropriate use of the powers given to the Minister and to the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority. Like other parties in this House, the M\u0101ori Party cannot emphasise enough just how critical it is that these powers are exercised only in accordance with the purpose of the Act, and only if reasonably necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EI guess if there is one overriding consideration that might guide us all in our deliberations, it will be to reflect on the simple yet bold tribal proverb that Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu suggests for the recovery of Christchurch: \u201CM\u014D t\u0101tou, a, m\u014D k\u0101 uri \u0101 muri ake nei\u201D\u2014for us and our children after us. It was in this sense that the M\u0101ori Party has appreciated the very clear endorsement from Ng\u0101i Tahu for this legislation as an important step in pursuing the vision of Christchurch becoming a global city, with a strong, vibrant community that provides for our grandchildren and their grandchildren. It is essential that we consider the bill as one step along the journey of a long, lifetime plan. The earthquake was not a usual event, an event to which the normal powers of local government authorities could be applied to reorganise and rebuild.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EHow will any of us ever forget these last 2 months of our lives? Our lives have been interrupted by an event of such a catastrophic proportion that even now it is hard to believe that it happened. The physical disruption to our lives, the ongoing frustration of normality disrupted, has been on a massive scale. As has been said previously, the earthquake of 22 February 2011 has altered the course of history for Christchurch and for our nation. But the crumbling bricks and mortar, the devastation of homes in ruin, and the ongoing impact of the demolition of buildings, as severe as these effects are, all pale in comparison with the inconsolable grief of families mourning for those lost in the quake. We remember the extraordinary outpouring of anguish that washed over us all as we attended a tangihanga, observed a 2-minute silence at the national memorial services, and simply listened and watched, and read the very real human stories of heartache.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EBut now we must move forward, remembering to honour all those who lost their lives. There is no question that the powers being conferred on central government through both the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority and the responsible Minister are extraordinary. But we agree with Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101i Tahu that extraordinary powers are warranted by the extraordinary circumances: \u201CA narrower set of powers would result in an inevitable amount of case by case management of the recovery effort, creating delays, uncertainty and contributing to community frustration.\u201D So the M\u0101ori Party is backing the bill, as we believe that it is essential in order to establish a clear overall direction for the recovery efforts. We agree with the necessity of producing a mandatory recovery plan for the Christchurch commercial business district within 9 months of the bill\u2019s enactment, and that the recovery plan should then be read into statutory plans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EI have been impressed by the work of the disability sector, and the advocacy and leadership of the Minister for Disability Issues, Tariana Turia, in recommending that the Christchurch recovery effort presents a unique opportunity to ensure that Christchurch is a truly accessible city for disabled and older people. So we are pleased that Minister Brownlee has agreed to the Hon Ruth Dyson\u2019s amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EI want to talk about representation, which is perhaps the most critical factor underpinning the recovery of Christchurch. Ng\u0101i Tahu made the point in their submission that there is a distinction between statutory participatory rights and community leadership. There must be a collaborative working relationship between the authority and community leadership that is close, open, and generates innovation. The purpose provisions of the bill are explicit in their direction that community participation must be planned for in order to restore the social, economic, cultural, and environmental well-being of Greater Christchurch communities. The community forum and the cross-party forum are fundamental to the way in which these relationships will be activated. We must act in ways that demonstrate the saying \u201CHe waka eke noa\u201D\u2014a canoe that we are all in, with no exception.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThere can be no exceptions. The need for this bill to work cannot be understated. We must, in this Parliament, provide the appropriate measures to ensure that Greater Christchurch and the councils and their communities respond to, and recover from, the impacts of the Christchurch earthquakes. As Ng\u0101i Tahu put it so eloquently, \u201Cthe community is the recovery. The identity, strength and vitality of Christchurch is in the hearts of our people.\u201D We must not falter in the steps we take. Our future as a city, as a nation, will depend on the quality of the relationships and the collaboration with the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority, local and central government, and the wider community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party supports this bill, as we support every effort of all the parties involved to plan for the rebuild process, and to make the appropriate decisions that will help to protect and preserve the well-being of wh\u0101nau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u0022a81a4ff0d9cf40d491b14927f0c48e43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a81a4ff0d9cf40d491b14927f0c48e43\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I support the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill, and look forward to the recovery and rebuild of Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022 data-id=\u0022a60dfb8bd09044a29dd3c70865021d96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a60dfb8bd09044a29dd3c70865021d96\u0022\u003ECHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will take a short call. Normally this call would be taken by my colleague Lianne Dalziel, but she has asked me to say that she is unable to speak in the third reading debate as she is holding a community meeting in her electorate, which is something she has been doing regularly, I think, since the first earthquake. The first thing, then, is that I convey her apologies for not being able to be in the House for the conclusion of this debate, and I explain the reason for that absence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EOther members of the Labour team have explained that, on a collective basis, we have decided to support the Canterbury emergency legislation. They have also made a commitment, particularly those Canterbury members who will continue to work on the ground, to try to make this model work. They have said that it is not the model that Labour would have chosen. We would have preferred to see evidence that the Government had taken into account best international practice in recovery. If that had been done, there would have been much more emphasis on collaboration with the communities affected by the earthquake, and there probably would not have been a model held so closely to the Crown by the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery. There probably would have been the continuation of some sort of Crown entity structure that allowed less direction and more community cooperation than we will see under the model we have. But it is what it is; rather than oppose it, given that it is the only option from the Government on offer, as it were, Labour members have decided that it will be supported. As I have said, the decision is that we will simply try to make what we see as a less than ideal model work on the ground.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EI said in my earlier contribution that I thought there were a number of areas where the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill goes too far. It is unconstitutional in at least four or five respects, and I will repeat for the House why that is so. First, we have legislation that can be suspended by regulation, and at a low test for that suspension. The Minister just has to think that it is expedient in order for that suspension to occur. Wars have been fought over less, but here we go conferring that power, merrily, on the executive in 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThen there is the attempt to say to the High Court that it cannot review the exercise of the Minister\u2019s decisions to make regulations that suspend statutes. The way in which that is done is inelegant, and it is probably ineffective, as experts have pointed out. Most members of the House probably do not take a huge or close interest in the way in which there is an interplay between the competing sources of power in our constitution, but it is something that I do take an interest in. I am aware, as I am sure other lawyers in the House are aware, that there is actually fragility in the balance of power in our constitution. The judges and the courts are watching closely, now that the final right of appeal sits across the road, and now that this Parliament is apparently seized of a desire to surrender certain of its powers to the executive, to see whether that exercise of power by this House is appropriate. Kennedy Graham said in his earlier contribution that there is no written constitution in this country. The danger that we face, if we provoke the judiciary with provisions such as the one I have just spoken about, is that we may run the risk that the courts will start to discover unwritten rights that they will none the less enforce against this place, because they will regard us as having changed the constitution in unacceptable ways. My concern about this legislation today is that we are doing this now, and that that is the risk we are running.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EIf it were a necessary risk to run, and if it were obvious that the Minister needed those powers\u2014if the powers had, for example, been required under the September 2010 Canterbury legislation and been used time and time again for good purpose\u2014then maybe it would be possible to be relaxed about it, but that is not the case. These sorts of powers have not been required, although they have existed under that earlier legislation. They have not had to be used, so I ask why we risk causing a constitutional crisis by seeking to enact the sorts of powers that we are told, and that I accept, are very unlikely ever to be required. It is folly, it is irresponsible, and it may have, I fear, much wider consequences than most people in this House have thought about. The risks we have incurred today to the way in which it is accepted that our constitution ought to be balanced, unfortunately cannot be overstated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThere are other problems with the bill. There is no need to water down privacy rights in the way that is contemplated under clauses 29 and 30. We already have a perfectly acceptable solution to information-sharing issues, which was put in place by the Privacy Commissioner, the independent expert charged with responsibility for these matters. We are retrospectively validating the activity of officials, when they already have validation under the Civil Defence and Emergency Management Act. That is again unnecessary and provocative, and it is an overreach of our powers to do it twice. The question has to be asked about why it is being done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EFinally, the rights of citizens to have their interests declared to be of a certain nature by the courts are disturbed by clause 68. Restrictions are to be placed by this Parliament on the way in which appeals are to be carried out, but I say that there is no need to interfere with the processes of the court in this way. A simple legislative direction that the court is to have regard to its inherent powers to control vexatious or unduly prolonged litigation would have been sufficient; instead, the drafters have insisted on an outdated model by which to proceed. Again, it is provocative, and it may be constitutionally dangerous. It is no answer that these powers already exist in the 2010 law and that they have not been abused. It is wrong for Nicky Wagner, Rahui Katene, and others to assert that there are sufficient checks and balances\u2014there are not. These are bad precedents; they are unconstitutional. Our arrangements are more fragile than many understand, and this is, as I say, folly. It would have been much better just to enact the Legislation Advisory Committee\u2019s model for emergency legislation, and to have left it at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002259e9efe2-6dea-4eeb-869a-ef5b3e48a5b5\u0022\u003EThere have been criticisms of the process, and I believe that many of those criticisms are entirely justified. But I have also seen some very good behaviour from certain parliamentarians, and I record my thanks for that behaviour, because some people have actually risen above their baser instincts and behaved nobly in this process. I have seen parliamentarians taking their scrutiny job seriously, and I respect those people for the way in which they have discharged their responsibilities. But a really unfortunate tone has also crept into this debate. There has been sniping, there have been accusations of bad faith, and there have been petty exchanges across the House that the subject of this legislation really should have rendered inappropriate. Many people say that there is nothing worse than a bad loser; I think there is, and that is a bad winner. I hope that that is not a portent of things to come in the way in which this legislation will be administered because, if it is, then it will be a very bad thing for Canterbury and for this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6483ac4bd8547608a03e5ad51224795\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6483ac4bd8547608a03e5ad51224795\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I support the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill. I will make just this one point. The recovery and rebuild in Christchurch, the rebuild of the many broken hearts and homes, does not lie within one piece of legislation and one Minister; the burden lies with all of us. All New Zealanders, including people from Auckland, share the burden of Christchurch. I am proud, in this House, to be passing this bill\u2014an urgent and necessary piece of legislation for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022 data-id=\u002243ab703869a0431d8d9720e194c949a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243ab703869a0431d8d9720e194c949a1\u0022\u003EBRENDON BURNS (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E The speech I am embarking on in the third reading of the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill will conclude my first week back at Parliament since the 22 February quake. I am very grateful my colleagues in caucus have provided support so that I and others have been able to be on the ground in my electorate in Christchurch, because there is no shortage of work to be done assisting those constituents whose lives have been nothing less than shattered. Residents and suburbs are still struggling with sewerage and housing problems, and business people have faced enormous frustration at not being able to access their premises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI have to confess tonight that I am feeling a little weary and a little wary. I am weary because I as an MP and my electorate staff, to whom I pay homage tonight, have absorbed a lot of the emotions generated by the quake. I think we have seen more tears in recent weeks than in a whole year of watching soppy movies. I think I have given more hugs out than Nelson Mandela, and I think most of us, as MPs on the ground in Christchurch, have absorbed a lot of anger and have diffused a lot of anger and annoyance as we have dealt with frustrated homeowners and business people. Business people, of course, are carrying not only the loss of premises but the very strong financial stresses of trying to keep businesses alive in the face of frustrations about access to premises, data, and files. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EBut that is the job we do as constituency MPs, and I think all MPs across Christchurch have worked hard, and are working hard, to do their best to help. I particularly pay tribute to my colleagues: to Lianne Dalziel, the feisty battler for her very hard-hit electorate out in Christchurch East; to Clayton Cosgrove, our lead spokesperson on earthquake recovery; to Ruth Dyson, who is a tireless worker for her constituents out in Port Hills; to Jim Anderton, who never ceases to be on the case in respect of his constituents; and to Ken Graham, who brings a very valuable constitutional view to matters before this House. I also acknowledge Gerry Brownlee, Amy Adams, and the list MPs of Christchurch for the work that has been done. I think we are all feeling a little weary, but we know that this is an ultra-marathon in most respects. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EJust a few weeks ago on a short quake break I visited Napier to look at the recovery there from the 1931 disaster. I spent half an hour or so with Mayor Barbara Arnott, who conveyed to me her view that it takes a full generation to recover fully from the impacts of a disaster of this scale, and I think she is absolutely right when we consider we are facing a $30 billion rebuild in Christchurch and a time frame that will stretch across many, many years. I think that is underlining the critical importance that we, as Labour MPs, attach to the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill and to getting it into the best possible shape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI have to say I came to this House with some optimism about that process. We as a party had negotiated and effectively won the right, if that is what I should call it, to a select committee hearing, which we thought was crucial to making sure, given the rapid nature of the passage of this bill, that we at least had some reference back to the community, to the experts, so that we could iron out some of the wrinkles that are always likely to emerge in urgent legislation. It was disappointing, to say the least, as our parliamentary colleague Heather Roy has noted, to arrive at the select committee and discover that we did not have technical advice available to us as we set about that very rapid but important process of trying to make sure the bill had the worst of the fish-hooks removed from it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThat is where I come to the second word, \u201Cwary\u201D. I thought, after last night\u2019s firstly formal and then informal briefing from Minister Gerry Brownlee, we would conclude this bill in a broadly bipartisan spirit, and I had hoped genuinely for that. It was, to use the word again, disappointing to get to the Committee stage and see all of Labour\u2019s 100 or so amendments simply discarded. That does not bode well for the bill or for the genuine commitment I think the bill needs to embody. I want to say there is absolutely no question about the issue of the need for rapidity. That is the essence of what is required in Christchurch at this point. But the Government cannot pretend to have some monopoly, to be the brains trust on these issues. I note that of the changes brought through in the Government\u2019s own Supplementary Order Paper, only one came from the Government itself\u2014plus, I think, the removal of a comma\u2014and the rest of all of those changes came from the select committee process, which I think underscores the value of it. It should not really have had to be wrangled from the Minister, because there are benefits to him as much as there are to the citizens of Christchurch in terms of that process, as rushed as it was, as truncated as it was, and, frankly, as flawed as it was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe Minister tonight, in his third reading speech, gave us an assurance that he wants to work properly in the cross-party forum. I will take him at his word on that, even if past experience of what was effectively a cross-party forum following the 4 September quake did not really work. Ideas were generated and letters were written. Sometimes replies were not received, and ideas were not picked up. I say to the Minister we cannot have that this time round. We simply have to have all hands on deck. All ideas deserve the courtesy of at least being considered. The Government has no monopoly on wisdom, and Christchurch people want nothing less than all of their MPs being able to contribute to the recovery that lies before us and the many years that it will involve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EI noted, too, Minister Brownlee\u2019s commitment to the community forum and the fact that he is determined that it will be truly representative. That puts an enormous onus on him because, as the bill defines, he is choosing the 20 or more representatives on that forum. I note from the Committee stage that the Minister said he thought there needed to be consultation with the cross-party forum in respect of the membership of the community forum. I intend to hold him to that, because the community forum is not simply an adjunct to the process. I think that forum has to be at the heart of the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EGiven that the Minister is from Catholic origins, he would well remember and be aware that the road to another place is paved with a lot of good intentions, but it is the delivery of those good intentions that gets one to that other place. It is, of course, always easier for a Government or anybody in authority to issue commands rather than to genuinely consult and engage, but the value of consultation and engagement can be enormously important in bringing about the sorts of results we want. Although it is especially tempting when time pressures are upon us to go past genuine engagement, there are huge risks, and we cannot afford to get things horribly wrong in Christchurch as we embark upon our so essential recovery. We are all travelling on the same road in Christchurch towards that recovery. We can walk together or we can fall behind a shadow. I say that for the sake of Christchurch we have to have the chance to walk together. I also have to say that I think we have had a rather stumbling start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003EThe next steps will be instructive. My colleagues and I will be watching very closely to see whether engagement is truly possible and the cross-party forum can truly work, and whether there is truly an opportunity for real, genuine input and the potential for the community to provide advice and instruction to the Minister, and to walk alongside him and make sure we get it right this time. There is a lot before us. There are a lot of questions about whether we are able to deliver it via this bill. But the Minister has given us his assurance. I accept him at his word. I will hold him to account in respect of that assurance he has given to the House, and I can say only that from here on it is perhaps a case of que sera, sera.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022 data-id=\u002233127342dc26491bb675f2ddcdd6556f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233127342dc26491bb675f2ddcdd6556f\u0022\u003EAARON GILMORE (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to speak last on the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill. For me, as the youngest Canterbury member of Parliament, I look forward to this bill being implemented over the next number of years and my home city being rebuilt. This is an extraordinary bill that gives extraordinary powers to an extraordinary man. I think that in years to come\u2014in many years to come\u2014when we sit in this House again, in 5 years\u2019 time, we will see that my city is on the path, and not just the path, of rebuilding, and when sewers, roads, homes, schools, and power supplies are repaired because of the Government\u2019s framework that this bill put in place. I look forward to seeing those results. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EWe heard the previous speaker, Brendon Burns, talk about community consultation. It was a pleasure to be with the Prime Minister this morning in one of the hard-hit suburbs of Christchurch where over 200 people were talking about some of the issues they are facing and the concerns they have as a result of this bill. There are some concerns that exist in the community\u2014many of them were put in people\u2019s minds by Opposition members, and I think that is unfortunate. This bill will not ruin people\u2019s lives; it is the Government\u2019s framework to allow our city to be rebuilt in the way that New Zealand, and Canterbury in particular, wants it to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EI look forward to sitting in this House in 5 years\u2019 time and seeing the fruits of this bill: results so that we can actually flush our toilets, drink our water, turn our lights on and off, live in our homes that are not leaky, live in homes that have no cracks or breaks, have roads that are flat, and our kids can go to school from 8.30 to 3 like normal kids do up and down the country. I look forward to being back in the central business district where our business people can sit and work in their businesses like they used to do prior to September and prior to 22 February. I look forward to seeing thousands of tourists coming back to our city and seeing the beautiful buildings we have and enjoying the good company of Cantabrians. I look forward to seeing the Crusaders and the All Blacks playing again at the AMI Stadium, or Jade Stadium as I would rather call it, or Lancaster Park, as that member may recall, and enjoying the great things that have occurred in Christchurch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003EThis bill will allow the Government\u2019s framework for those things to happen and that has to be a good thing. The people of Canterbury are tough, we are resilient, we are stoic, but, as we say, we need a bit of help. This legislation will put in place a bit of help to help our good friends in Canterbury, wherever they come from, whatever their political persuasion, whatever side of town they live in, to be able to get to the situation where they can look back and say yes, the Government put in place a framework to help them and to rebuild their city. I think that is a wonderful thing. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220b89de2f28b2417b9d3d2004e0e08140\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 109\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 58; New Zealand Labour 42; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; Independents: Carter C, Harawira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20110412505fc052361949c1a2f20ec0819b6339000875\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.54 p.m. (Thursday)\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"