"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022236159d2446d4e949eea427020c91ecc\u0022\u003EThursday, 4 August 2011\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227db468af3edc4cfc910844a5f3e5adea\u0022\u003EThursday, 4 August 2011\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a1c4bd32c68f4bd5adda8db08ca782c4\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b8756e9af2040d098a92623c897e9ae\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b844aec02eb8450aa5c27d5d8c361060\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b844aec02eb8450aa5c27d5d8c361060\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Acting Leader of the House: I am the acting Acting Leader of the House today, not the Attorney-General. When the House resumes on Tuesday, 9 August, the Government intends to complete the Committee stage of the Appropriation (2011/2012 Estimates) Bill, before proceeding to the third reading. The Government also intends to make further progress on the Electoral (Administration) Amendment Bill (No 2).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002228e36f4803484fbdaea055c52e3bd47a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228e36f4803484fbdaea055c52e3bd47a\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Through you, Mr Speaker, can I ask the acting Acting Leader of the House two questions. The first is whether the intention is to proceed straight to the third reading of the appropriations legislation, and, if so, will that be done under urgency? The second question is whether in future we can rely on minutes or notifications from the office of the Leader of the House that indicate House business, or are we to have repeats of what happened yesterday, when they were misleading?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u002276048830458c41a7b3f4c3717022bce0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276048830458c41a7b3f4c3717022bce0\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E As to the second question, I will not dignify it with a response. As to the first point, on issues of urgency the Acting Leader of the House anticipated the inquiry and is open to having a discussion with the shadow Leader of the House next week both in terms of the appropriation bill and what future weeks look like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eed3ba6c2b25482dbf2cd72e8a900c54\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f5a58111c5ec4ae281fd11c379dd0110\u0022\u003EPrivilege\u2014Procedure for Raising Breaches\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00220fb8c1a60ea74c23bce5c736b9a6adb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fb8c1a60ea74c23bce5c736b9a6adb4\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think your office has been given notice of my intention to raise a point of order as to the decision of the Table Office not to accept a notice of motion from Clare Curran relating to a breach of privilege, which she attempted to lay yesterday, and was rejected by the Table Office. The grounds that were used for that\u2014and I will go back to them\u2014were the feeling that such a notice of motion breached Speakers\u2019 rulings 180/2 and 180/5. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI draw your attention to McGee, page 665, where he makes it absolutely clear that a member can raise a matter of privilege by way of notice of motion in the House, and that that can be done whether or not it has been lodged with the Speaker. This is the latest edition\u2014the third edition\u2014of McGee, which postdates the Speakers\u2019 rulings on the matter. He refers to cases in Erskine May where, in fact, the House of Commons has found a breach of privilege without having a hearing, and he draws attention to the case in 2000 in Hansard, Volume 585, at page 3,457, where the House of Representatives censured a member for remarks that he offered\u2014both cases not having hearings of the Privileges Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EWhat is well established is that there is an ability for members, by way of motion, to move such a motion in the House and, in the unusual event that the business gets to members\u2019 motions\u2014and I accept that that would be unusual\u2014to have it referred. The Wall ruling, 180/5, says: \u201COnce a matter of privilege has been raised with the Speaker it is out of order to refer to it in debate in the House.\u201D My submission to you, Mr Speaker, is that that is a matter of general or other debate and if we came to a debate on that particular issue, it would be then be in order. I think all of us know that one should not casually refer to matters that are before you, Mr Speaker, but if one goes back to McGee and looks at previous cases in New Zealand and previous cases in the United Kingdom, one will see that it is clear that there is an ability to do a parallel process, both through reference to you and also directly through the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMy submission is notwithstanding the comments of the Office of the Clerk. Speaker\u2019s ruling 180/2 is entirely irrelevant. There is no doubt from my perspective that if we apply this ruling and Speaker\u2019s ruling 180/5, the matter cannot be brought on for debate. But we have a number of places where, for example, reports of select committees and bills are introduced that are below the line, so we have items that are on the Order Paper but not available for debate. My submission is that having a motion on the Order Paper does not necessarily involve debate. In fact, I think we would agree that where it is a members\u2019 notice of motion it is most unlikely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMy colleague feels there has been a breach; I think it is fair to say that she is pretty motivated about the 2-year breach\u2014I know because I have seen a copy of the letter\u2014that she has written to you about in the Telecom structural separation case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, I do not think I am asking you to rule immediately on this question, but I ask you to go away and consider whether, in fact, when you look carefully at Speakers\u2019 rulings 180/2 and 180/5; McGee page 665; Hansard, Volume 585, at page 3,457; and Erskine May page 132, there is an ability for a member to take what has been regarded as a right, and that is to set down a notice of motion\u2014not to have it debated\u2014on matters of privilege.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u002289613695edfb46f7a416e87322d6ebce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289613695edfb46f7a416e87322d6ebce\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E Just very briefly, I say that Chapter VIII of the Standing Orders deals with parliamentary privilege. An allegation of breach of privilege is a very serious allegation. There is a very clear procedure set out in Chapter VIII as to the way in which issues of breach of privilege are dealt with, including procedural aspects of reference to you, Mr Speaker. It is entirely appropriate that once the matter has been raised with you by letter, until it is determined\u2014whether in a threshold way by you, or referred on to the Privileges Committee\u2014it is inappropriate to have those matters canvassed in the House. That is what lies behind Speaker Wall\u2019s ruling at Speaker\u2019s ruling 180/5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022e264a43cc9a64b7792eab28180cc2802\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e264a43cc9a64b7792eab28180cc2802\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank both honourable members for the constructive way they have raised this issue. I must agree with the Hon Chris Finlayson that he has come to the heart of the issue. The Hon Trevor Mallard is quite correct that these matters can be raised by notice of motion in the House; that is very clear. But I disagree that Speaker\u2019s ruling 180/2 is irrelevant. I believe it is totally relevant to the situation and the point made by the Hon Chris Finlayson is relevant. Once a letter of complaint has been lodged with the Speaker, then until the Speaker determines the outcome of that complaint, it cannot be raised in the House. Certainly if the Speaker declines to refer it to the Privileges Committee, then it can be raised in the House once the Speaker has determined the matter. But as in all issues that involve judicial decisions, once the matter is before the Speaker, then it is inappropriate for it to be raised in the House in any way whatsoever until the Speaker has made the relevant decision on the matter. Of course, the alternative mechanism remains available to members. They can raise the matter by notice of motion in the House, rather than refer it to the Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI think the Hon Chris Finlayson made the very pertinent point that once the matter is referred to the Speaker, then it should be a matter that is not discussed in this House. It would be my preference that the matter is not discussed in the media, either. If members are serious about issues of privilege, it is my view that they should not try to make a case to influence the decision of the Speaker one way or the other in the public media. To some extent, it is a measure of the seriousness of these issues. Where members do try to gain political coverage for them in the media, it is hard to then treat them with the same seriousness as a case that is laid before the Speaker in a serious manner without trying to make the case for it in front of the media. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EThe situation, to me, is very clear. There is nothing wrong with these matters being raised by a notice of motion instead of referring them to the Speaker. There is nothing wrong with raising a matter in that way after the Speaker has decided the matter, but while the Speaker is considering a matter it is not to be dealt with in that way in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccf60abceaf340cca7094cb5813a2ddf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccf60abceaf340cca7094cb5813a2ddf\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Just one further point: I think the gap in the reasoning from both the Attorney-General and you is that raising it with you is a private matter. It is generally not in the media. There are over 120 members here. The fact that one member has raised it with you should not, and in my opinion cannot, stop other members raising it by way of notice, because, as happens on a number of occasions\u2014and I have written you a number of letters; I have not consulted my colleagues about those\u2014their right to raise the matter as well, through whichever method they choose, should not, and cannot, be limited by a complaint unknown to them through your channel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2f2c03c810840438373c64ed5bce68f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2f2c03c810840438373c64ed5bce68f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I hear what the honourable member is saying, and what is notable in some cases is that it is the very member who lays the complaint who actually pursues the matter in the media. But I accept the point the member makes: that other members may well raise matters because they do not necessarily know that an issue has been referred to the Speaker. I accept the point the member makes, but the fact remains that while a matter is in front of the Speaker\u2014and the Office of the Clerk does know when it is\u2014the Office of the Clerk will not accept a notice of motion. I have ruled on the matter today and I do not think there is a need to take any further time on it, because, as I read the Speakers\u2019 rulings, this maintains the status quo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00222f4c73d1fc55400c8213c37c0536a9d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f4c73d1fc55400c8213c37c0536a9d7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am not challenging that ruling. I am raising a different issue, and that was your reference to publicity surrounding privilege complaints undermining the case for the complaint to be referred to the Privileges Committee. I make two points: the first is that historically most of the contentious complaints that have gone to the Privileges Committee have had publicity outside that process, and the Winston Peters case is a good example. The second point I would make is that in cases where\u2014and this may well be a case in point\u2014the media have had an involvement in the facts that have led to the Privileges Committee complaint, then there is actually no way that a member can effectively stop the media reporting on these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u00226f5e863e84d144ff95bfaaa4dc2a6d0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f5e863e84d144ff95bfaaa4dc2a6d0b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I understand the point the member makes. That is a perfectly reasonable point indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eba483b1d3244cb1a786754db97f6007\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223d5575df3e744d408126f41bc6cd683e\u0022\u003ECommittee of the Whole House\u2014Motions to Report Progress\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022b36d8a29d5f64733b6e24b456da1a552\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b36d8a29d5f64733b6e24b456da1a552\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yesterday the Committee sought my ruling on the moving of motions to report progress, a motion to do just that having been defeated by the Committee of the whole House on the Education (Freedom of Association) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EThe House has a fundamental principle that having once dealt with a matter, it refrains from raising it again. Standing Order 260 establishes this principle as a rule for bills, amendments, or instructions proposed that are substantially the same in effect as ones that have already been agreed to or defeated. Clearly, where a Committee has defeated a motion to report progress and another motion to report progress is moved immediately thereafter, it simply raises again the matter the Committee has already resolved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EHowever, motions that progress be reported during the Committee stage do not always raise the same considerations. The rejection of such a motion in one circumstance does not presuppose that it may be similarly rejected in a new Committee on a different day, or during the consideration of a different provision of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003ETherefore, a motion to report progress moved pursuant to Standing Order 177(1) having been defeated by the Committee, a further motion to report progress may not be moved while the procedural circumstances remain unchanged\u2014in other words, while that Committee continues to consider the same substantive question proposed by the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224becc1dadc0c44319c06d53c6ba31a83\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224e05135c2eb54bb88d7b981cf5ba5d77\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fd8f16499ba445468f19b85b27c6d53d\u0022\u003EWork and Income\u2014Assistance for People in Need\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u002239d9a63068ae4fbd995bb891c14d8a67\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239d9a63068ae4fbd995bb891c14d8a67\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she stand by her statement that \u201CThere is a common misconception that people in need can\u2019t get help from Work and Income, but these figures clearly demonstrate that this is not the case\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf716763c12b4ecab9a0f113b878a2db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf716763c12b4ecab9a0f113b878a2db\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fa1fef61bf640dfb4d5edec2f7ca2f1\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: If people are getting the help they need, why are they now waiting up to 3 months before they can access necessary budget advice, which has been caused by the 70 percent increase in referrals to budget advisers by Work and Income, as required by her policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220c556772f414d99a49317acdad0eb10\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I have been keeping in close contact with the budgeting organisations over the last 3 years, but specifically over the last year. That waiting time is not the norm, as far as I see it. I am sure it is happening in some cases, but budgeting services are also coping with 40 percent no-shows for appointments they make with people. Budgeting services have quite a few problems with setting up appointments and seeing those people who genuinely need help. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f50d334298694f1d867dc9d0b8f573fe\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: If people are getting the help they need, why has the demand for food parcels around New Zealand reached an all-time high, with the number of families requiring their first-ever food parcel having gone up fourfold just this last year, and does she believe that these people are making poor lifestyle choices, as was suggested by the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297490e84517842ccae6f7ee1a3ef963a\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: We have also seen an increase in people wanting and requiring special-needs grants. Last month alone we paid out over $6 million for 42,779 receipts for special-needs grants through Work and Income. There is no doubt at all that people who at the moment are doing it hard are in need, but I think Work and Income is doing an outstanding job and is stepping up and helping those people how it can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224652da6b9e314b159895608b547132db\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: If people are getting the help they need, why does the Household incomes in New Zealand report state that, in 2010, two in five poor children were from households where at least one parent was working, and does that not indicate that the hardship New Zealanders are facing is spreading from beneficiaries and older New Zealanders to those on low and middle incomes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca63250369344a2bbcdf0976b3a94e0f\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I think it has always been true that those who are on low incomes do it harder than those who are not. We also have evidence of the social outcomes, education outcomes, and everything else for families who are in work, as opposed to those who are on benefits. What is often not pointed out to people is that those on low incomes can still get assistance from Work and Income. They might get accommodation assistance. Their family tax credits help them. People on a low income can get other assistance from Work and Income to top it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201750eca3f6a4100b532590c20ddf1c5\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Is she satisfied with assistance provided from Work and Income for 15 to 19-year-olds who are seeking work, when 27.6 percent are now unemployed, which is the highest rate on record?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256311dbcf73948968588a6d8a06ae8a1\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: What I am pleased to see for 15 to 19-year-olds is that more of them are in education, and we certainly have had a push to keep those young people in school and gaining their education qualifications so that they can go on to have other choices. I am extremely satisfied to see that more young people are staying in school for longer, but we certainly have work to do as far as making sure that they have that pathway out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227612001f6518442fb402d29a236688c9\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: On what did she base her statement in relation to the household labour force survey that \u201Cthose aged 15 or over who would like to have an hour a week\u2019s work or more, for example, a young person at school who would like to have a paper run\u201D, when there are 35,800 under-19-year-olds who are not in work, not in training, and not in education? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fc712ba277f438694491f9736ddaef2\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: This side of the House certainly does stand by keeping young people in school longer, so I certainly advocate for them to finish their education and stay through to year 13 whenever possible. We are seeing those numbers increase, which is really pleasing, and we are really thrilled to see that, but, as we say, some of them are certainly falling out of the system. We have had a huge backlog that we have had to catch up on after 9 years of neglect in this area, so we are catching up and doing the best that we can to make sure that those services are provided.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212c7b61e56b84550b9f6174f89398d83\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe that sole parents should be supported by the Government to adequately care for their children while they are training to get back in the workforce; if so, why did she cut the training incentive allowance for those in tertiary education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d9146706b524fdcaeeda55942e71d69\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is actually\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6ebd5c0eede417cb84adff4f092462a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me a moment. The member\u2019s colleague has asked a serious question, and I need to be able to hear the answer. It is very difficult when interjections are so loud. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cb6d8703eed4a6dbbad24f7125c88af\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is actually spending more on support and training for sole parents than has been spent, certainly, in the last 12 years alone. What we needed to look at is that, unfortunately, a very high percentage of those who are sole parents are not even achieving school qualifications, or getting to that first step on the rung of the ladder. So I am absolutely thrilled that we are putting the funding where it is really needed, and making sure that we are assisting those sole parents to get the kind of training that helps them then take those next steps ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d002574e1be4aabb7df717c56098257\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware that the $8.7 million over 5 years cut from the training incentive allowance will affect 4,500 people every year\u2014people who are training to get more skills so they can get off the benefit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b2a8a9bda544c9c9df55cadb7165cb6\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: We have not cut the money from the training incentive allowance. What we have done instead is to change the qualification level that they can actually get it for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d008e260d3424769b40c410e852884e3\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: That is a lie!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022929d07613f9b4a31ae97f52e29245d22\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I understand that Labour is having a bad day today and its members are feeling a bit angry. It is all right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4e362e4d50143e495cf8df6f6fa0ea4\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I hate to interrupt the Minister but there is a member from across the Chamber shouting out the word \u201Cliar\u201D. It is unnecessary, it is totally untrue, and she should not be saying that. Can you ask her to withdraw, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe0ee3d9273444998782f577b55342f0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All I heard was a totally unacceptable barrage of noise. It just sounds awful. I do not know how members think it sounds to the public, or how it looks on television, but it does us no service in this place, at all. I did not hear the particular offence, but a member has taken offence to it. If a member owns up to having said that, I would ask the member to stand, withdraw, and apologise for having made that interjection. If a member does not, then I cannot do anything about it, because I did not hear that particular interjection\u2014the overall noise level was so high. [Interruption] I am dealing with the matter, and if a member does not feel the need to do that then I am going to let the matter lie there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022deec54b114d7410ab23fdd572ae170e8\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7b168d36ab84c21a2de8e979c9698e7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order is being dealt with, and I say to the National back bench that if they want the matter dealt with, they will not carry on like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206919007b512497e9d66d62ddf54e5a2\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: The member who shouted that across the floor was Carmel Sepuloni, not once but on a number of occasions, and I ask you to deal with this matter, because I certainly took offence to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe36f32be2154e828ec83fda048e4131\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Offence has been taken. I ask Carmel Sepuloni to stand, withdraw, and apologise for accusing a member of being a liar. If the member says she did not say that, I will accept her word. Is the member claiming she did not say that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233e398cf9f1e4f08a2b8c008b6b970f4\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: I said it, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d02a561bd7144ab9440ed321a6350a1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if the member said it, she will in all seriousness apologise now to this House and withdraw that remark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e932332249b4337bf866f0141178ff6\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: I would rather leave the House than withdraw and apologise for that statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce2a0b75e714401a8bac626062db5008\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will do what the Speaker requires. Either the member will get to her feet, withdraw her comment, and apologise, or I will name her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faf2c8156b35483c9ed911e78ef23cc4\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Reluctantly I withdraw and apologise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022097ffb51b04d45f4b68c60e5573b2417\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is running the grave danger of being named. The member will now get to her feet with dignity, as required in this House. I will not have this place treated with contempt by that member. She will get to her feet, withdraw her comment, and apologise with no other words, or I will name her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022561592f3b5c443c5bd20bbd486d6b749\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227056f00e101549f69d7aa91d62fc9855\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3f384291af943e88ef881ff2e1be18d\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister possibly tell this House that she has cut, for a large group of young people and some older people, the training incentive allowance, but that that is not a cut?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b2e0720833d4f608a696f6073e9c293\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: What has happened is that we have changed the criteria. We had huge concerns\u2014[Interruption] Well, wake up! It was done more than 2 years ago. We changed the criteria because we had so many concerns for those women in particular who were not achieving even to level 2 in educational attainment. I am proud to say that we are putting more money into supporting those people, and those women, into work and into training, and I am proud of that record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299c8c45c72a945faa9c21b57bc32b067\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the member, I tell members there is no way I can assist them if the Minister does not answer the question, because I cannot possibly hear it. I just say to members that one of their colleagues is asking these questions, and it is discourteous to their own colleague to make such a high level of interjection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206aba02257024e7a997457c981c8bef8\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: How can she justify cutting the very benefit that allowed her to get her qualifications, and how can that not be characterised as hypocritical?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5cc035ce13b4157963e6c9873dd40ba\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. There is a long practice in this place that members cannot be accused of being hypocritical, and to allude to it that way, I think, is an unreasonable construction. I accept that it is a little different from directly accusing the member of being hypocritical, but I invite the member to reword that question to avoid that possible slight on the Minister. I invite the member to reword his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bb3a0550a474c6096093b729e60fcb3\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the fact that the member used the training incentive allowance to get her qualification, can she elucidate to the House whether, in the same circumstances, she would be eligible now, or is it just another case of pulling the ladder up after she has climbed up and off the benefit? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022663f4bee6f29468a9ace9a40c6e56c04\u0022\u003EHon Christopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister is not responsible for the policies of an earlier administration, which is a fundamental limb of the first part of that inept question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296019f4c54094435a430ab6e0e786f28\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f0d5d0736494df298e177847f842193\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear the Hon Trevor Mallard briefly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f78391a13cd643269563c80e94ed01b3\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: She is absolutely responsible for the policy change that changed the criteria for the allowance that she took advantage of in the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224709b87b65f540998358bc0bfc8269ba\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If I recollect the question correctly, it asked whether the Minister would have qualified given the criteria she changed. So it is not a matter of whether she would have qualified under a previous Government\u2019s administration; it is whether she would have qualified given the changes made by the Minister herself. On that basis, I believe that the question should not be ruled out on the grounds that the acting Leader of the House has raised. I believe that I should allow the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a882db7e821e44a290696094d13792c9\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: We are looking at a very different education system and tertiary system now than we were in 1994. Members on the opposite side may not think that things have changed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229269e218545249cca273d836a636c6a8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the Minister. Either the Labour Party takes the questions of its colleague seriously, or it does not. I have just treated the question with some seriousness. The acting Leader of the House argued that it was out of order. I did not take that advice; I allowed the question. Maybe I made a mistake. If Labour thinks the question is so worthless as to keep interjecting like that, maybe I did make a mistake. But I made the decision and I have asked the Minister to answer the question, and I think it should be treated with some respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226934f173e5f043dab639a140c3c7c9dd\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: My point is that things have changed since 1994. The education system and the tertiary system have changed. Those young women and men have more access to interest-free student loans, they get more childcare assistance than they ever had, and they are certainly far better off if they are in tertiary study now than they were in the early 1990s when I was there. That member may not think that times have changed in the 30 years or however long it is since he was in tertiary training, but actually they have. If one went back 40 years and said they would never ever make a change to a system, as a Minister, because of something they did or did not get, then what a ridiculous position to be in. That is the situation as it stands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d059f151b3c440580f0f19b7c122e89\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It was a long answer and it was commendable for the information it gave, but it did not tell us the answer to the question. The Minister said that things have changed, but she did not indicate to the House whether, under the circumstances\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e5a598a5f194281a4ebd8d93af1bc01\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was my understanding from the Minister\u2019s answer that she was indicating that she may not qualify under the current criteria. If I am wrong on that, then the Minister will certainly correct me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a5ff978082b42ceb6a72df9693e3051\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: My point was that we cannot compare now with what it was like in 1994. It is a completely different system, both in tertiary education and in the welfare system. I will not take a hypothetical situation. My point was that if Trevor Mallard was going to study, right now, at university\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d958fed2c3224d3c8afa18c00e9c3741\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am on my feet, and we will not go any further with this question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c0d945da44fb48c9aadfb81b4f7d89a8\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u002202ab542891f54a93b2df9f003bbc8886\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202ab542891f54a93b2df9f003bbc8886\u0022\u003ETIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he received on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u002217ab93dddf1b4712a197048b394a1427\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217ab93dddf1b4712a197048b394a1427\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E More good news. This week we have seen reports of both jobs and wages growing. The household labour force survey released today shows that 43,000 jobs were created in the past year\u201443,000 new jobs\u2014with unemployment at 6.5 percent. Earlier in the week the quarterly employment survey showed that even after adjusting for inflation, the after-tax average wage grew 2.1 percent in the past year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270e938cad76847da943e22e54b124519\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: How has the economy performed through recent economic shocks?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af3c388efbda45979bb4ad474c41722d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Both the economy and New Zealanders have been remarkably resilient. The figures for the last quarter include the considerable impact of the Christchurch earthquake. But the numbers show that the economy has been growing moderately and unemployment has been slowly falling, from a peak of 7 percent in 2009. Since the peak in 2009, there have been 61,000 new jobs and total hours worked are up about 4 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232539875e8a24e12a432d14391ecd79e\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: How much have real after-tax wages risen in the past year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6f07f4ac453421c8a07cf28dfd0381a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: If we use the measure that Parliament has legislated as the basis for calculating national superannuation, the after-tax average wage rose by 7.4 percent in the past year due to a combination of wage growth and the 1 October tax cuts. Over the same year inflation was 5.3 percent, driven in large part by the increase in GST. The real after-tax average wage increased by 2.1 percent in the year to June, even after accounting for all consumer price increases, including food, petrol, and the increase in GST.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c29967cb52b4f3cb2e395b7df2e47ae\u0022\u003ETim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: How has the Government\u2019s tax switch contributed to increases in real after-tax wages?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3930800ed5548a8a07a861549e8a4eb\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As the member may recall, in Budget 2010 the Government reduced income taxes and increased GST and the taxation on investment property, as well as closing a number of loopholes around Working for Families and other income assistance. The package helped to rebalance our economy away from excessive consumption and debt, towards savings, investment, and exports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220e30da6176844b85bf4dbe5b80fd0279\u0022\u003ECapital Gains Tax\u2014Current Exemptions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022 data-id=\u00229e8cdedba86949fabc4870cdfb5060c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e8cdedba86949fabc4870cdfb5060c7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Further to his reply to Oral Question No 6 yesterday that \u201Ctax is paid on some capital gains in New Zealand\u201D, what exemptions exist to the current taxation of capital gains income?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022317a0120ccf64a9da675c690ecaac081\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022317a0120ccf64a9da675c690ecaac081\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E As the member may know, our tax system does not work, in this respect, by exemptions. Some capital gain is classified in the Income Tax Act as \u201Cincome\u201D, and is therefore taxed at income rates. One very important exception exists, though: KiwiSaver funds do not currently pay tax on their capital gains from trading New Zealand or Australian shares. This exemption helps boost KiwiSaver returns and provides a level playing field for local investment. However, a new, more widespread capital gains tax applied to the sale of all shares would mean the end of this exemption. KiwiSaver funds would have to pay capital gains tax, lowering their investment returns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290d219bf14e6457fb7a7a0b86578a916\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Prime Minister says: \u201Cit is not true that New Zealanders are not taxed on capital gains that they might incur.\u201D, how much is raised annually from the intention test, and how much capital gains income goes untaxed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022314faaa173994db7a9a57f167187ff5d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: With respect to the intentions test, over the last couple of Budgets the Government has given quite a bit more money to the Inland Revenue Department to pursue those people who are, in fact, trading in property but claiming that they are not trading in property. If they are not trading, then they will not be paying taxes on their capital gains. The Inland Revenue Department advises that it has been quite successful in extracting considerably more tax from those property speculators.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bf804dd3c394a7aa5ec200f16af6273\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I respectfully submit that the Minister has not addressed the question, which was trying to get him to quantify how much tax was raised from a particular aspect\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2d6e521a17747d8b267b9679cf98ad7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have heard sufficient. If the member really wanted those figures\u2014and he is perfectly entitled to seek those figures\u2014he would need to put them down in the primary question. To expect a Minister to give him those figures, given the base of the primary question today, is unreasonable. If the member wants those figures, then the primary question should have been different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220671491e66344acb94a3a7bbffbd386f\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Minister\u2019s statement that a comprehensive capital gains tax is \u201Cthe right thing to do\u201D not an admission that the current system offers a tax advantage to property that distorts investment decisions and hurts the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022352d99f0b13a42cfb12d6f2ddd6104f3\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As I explained to the member yesterday, many tax theorists advance a comprehensive capital gains tax as a way of raising more revenue. As I have explained to the member, the Government took a series of measures with respect to property, including the one referred to in the last question\u2014that is, more resources for the Inland Revenue Department to pursue those people who have been avoiding taxation on the trading of property\u2014and also a number of measures in Budget 2010, which I understand are collecting about $800 million this year from the property investment sector. We have taken moderate measures to increase the effective tax rate on property in order to assist the rebalancing of the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cba129c16b1b419485663a3424595a75\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: Given that the Minister is on record as supporting a comprehensive capital gains tax, and given that the Minister could not tell the House earlier in this question what the exemptions are to the capital gains tax that he and the Prime Minister say currently exists, in what respect is the capital gains tax he believes is currently in place not comprehensive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b6ec36b828e45059f8e562068984df2\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As I have pointed out to the member, the Income Tax Act does not work by having a capital gains tax and then making exemptions from it. What it does is classify some forms of capital income as income that should be taxed. The rest of the tax law has been determined by a series of court decisions, which try to determine the difference between ordinary income and capital income. One exception, as I pointed out, is that KiwiSaver funds do not pay capital gains tax on Australian or New Zealand - traded shares. I think that under the member\u2019s proposition, they would.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dc40fa887474956ba5cebdb3f094913\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: In the simplest possible terms, does he stand by his statement that a comprehensive capital gains tax is a good thing? If so, does he believe that New Zealand currently has a comprehensive capital gains tax, and in what respect; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a80682825524adfa0f4066ba0623253\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As I pointed out in the comments he is referring to, a number of people have advocated a comprehensive capital gains tax. I understand that the member is not advocating a comprehensive capital gains tax; he is advocating one full of holes, exemptions, exceptions, and multiple rates. That would be a nightmare for compliance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0192ed9-5715-4f6c-bd52-8db4f3466087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6b67a0f486e4750b5aa64e5b48bae33\u0022\u003EHon David Cunliffe\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have used, as you can see, several additional supplementary questions, in effect, to get\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6b1559713de4ed4a6cb3cf6f625c6e4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the Hon David Cunliffe, please, to view the tape of the last supplementary question he asked, and to reflect on the first two statements he made in the supplementary question he asked. He made all sorts of allegations about the Minister\u2019s view of capital gains tax and other matters. Having done that, the Minister had absolutely open licence to say almost anything he liked about the policies of the member\u2019s party, because the member in asking his question made allegations about the Minister\u2019s policies. I just ask him to look at the question he asked, because there is no way I can assist him when he asks that kind of question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbe3f87c-849c-4eee-84cc-119edeb1a681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243fdf7e112444f0daf93374c491188a3\u0022\u003EAaron Gilmore\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any reports on exemptions to the tax rules on capital gains on share trading?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f55264e9cc25421183e55c3ce25ce2c5\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen a couple of interesting reports. The first was a Government policy released by the then Minister of Finance in the last Government, which this Government has maintained: \u201CCapital gains on New Zealand and Australian shares held via a vehicle like a managed fund will no longer be taxed. \u2026 It is \u2026 important for encouraging people to save through KiwiSaver.\u201D That was a policy position taken by Dr Michael Cullen, and remains a current policy. The second report was by Labour\u2019s finance spokesman, David Cunliffe, who told the New Zealand Shareholders Association that under Labour\u2019s proposed policy KiwiSaver funds would tend to be taxed on the capital gains. So I think it is now Labour\u2019s policy that capital gains on Australian and New Zealand - traded funds will be taxed, and that will punish 1.7\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4886a1654144e4c8505a7275eb968cf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec7136cdc17244f48c1bfc646ac3434f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014million\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c82fca962486461aac0f948c5afabf18\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b3fc88922094bb38c9b1011bdf797af\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014KiwiSavers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200aa0643e14444c18db9e31d388f9dad\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Unlike the previous question, that was a question from a colleague from the member\u2019s own party. He reported accurately the report he had received, but he erred in expressing his view about KiwiSavers being punished. That was beyond the provisions of the Standing Orders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eaa3218c5a64e508c7fabfa50532998\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Again, I invite you to review the tape of that one and see whether you called the Minister to order three or four times while he studiously avoided looking at you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022327c0ffd50784511b109c581a2c780ee\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: When the member\u2019s own behaviour is perfect, I will take his advice on that matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282172bed59354dfb978c81e761b4d60b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I invite you to reflect on that and see whether you should address points of order raised or provide a commentary that sounds more like an Australian cricket commentary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f40c83fbf00747d88e18671b836000f5\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I accept the member\u2019s view, but if the member wants me to take his points of order seriously, he needs to behave\u2014most times\u2014seriously. It is a very simple matter: the matter the member raised is a matter for the Speaker to decide. It is for the Speaker to decide whether the Minister did not respond quickly enough to my being on my feet. I admonished the Minister for going into an area that the supplementary question did not allow for, and, as far as I am concerned, that is the end of the matter. All I say to the member is to just reflect on his own behaviour if he is going to criticise the behaviour of other members in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0d4570d18b942a4a75e41a11c02c4aa\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I invite you to consider whether it is appropriate for the Speaker to express prejudice before\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ee35e1aec4749ca949d85d34916df3b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat right away. I have to deal with the behaviour of members in this House all of the time. I have been, I think, quite generous to the shadow Leader of the House and some of his behaviour in this place. I noted last night that in the Committee the member was told to leave the Chamber, and he argued with the Chairman. The shadow Leader of the House argued with the Chairman instead of leaving when he was told to leave. Members need to think about their own behaviour if they are to be taken seriously in this place. Had the point of order been a serious point of order, I would have acted on it immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272f7d5e3e84c40ebae8229c27dab4aad\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: If you are going to reflect, as the member requested, I think you should reflect on the latitude that that member seems to get in this House. As you pointed out, yesterday he was asked to leave the Chamber by a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226553cec9e03f44fca1e5af9f0bde2e67\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not think we should take this matter any further. I have dealt with it as Speaker, and that is the end of the matter. I have made it very clear to the members of the House that I do not view bad behaviour favourably. When the Hon Trevor Mallard raised a point of order claiming that another member had behaved poorly, I suggested, because I did not believe that the offence was so bad, that the member reflect on his own behaviour. It seems that quite a few members of the House actually share my view, it would be fair to say. But that is the end of the matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EI just want to see behaviour in this House improve a little. In recent times it has become poor, and we are not seen well in the public eye when we allow that to happen. If members doubt the behaviour of certain members, I tell them to look at the television replays\u2014look at the tapes. I do it all the time, and at times it is not good. At times I just have to make it clear to members that they should pick up their game, because the public does not like seeing its Parliament behaving badly. If I have offended the member, I apologise for offending the member, but the behaviour has not been very good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223ae944a40ea4cebb28f424776e7c9e9\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222441c35745749738c91b00b373669f2\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will be interested to know what the point of order is about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b99e50b53b44382ba8b514aba4bf26c\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I am about to advise you of it, Mr Speaker. I would like some clarification. Without wishing to relitigate the exchange we have had, I think the issue is simply this: no one is challenging your right to make a ruling\u2014that is absolutely correct, and we would support you making a ruling\u2014but what follows or prefaces that ruling, inevitably, is a commentary. You may see that as your right and privilege as an evolving Speaker\u2019s role, but the difficulty is that that commentary often becomes a narrative well outside what could be seen to be judicious and impartial. It is your right to make a ruling. You are the referee, but you are not in the game, I put to you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1a35ee125fd4a45838e71a07a693731\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear the Hon Bill English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bbe26bb4c854d4db128a0012b91632e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: As someone who has recently been on the other end of decisions of the Speaker, I think it is fair to say that we need to reassert a standard that has been held in this House for 20 years, which is that the impartiality of the Speaker is not questioned. Questioning the Speaker\u2019s impartiality has never been a custom of this House, but the Opposition is starting to get into that. I sometimes disagree strongly with the Speaker, and have had cause to do so recently, but questioning the impartiality of the Speaker takes us down a road that leads to disorder, and it should not be occurring. We can disagree with the Speaker, but not question his impartiality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0a596cd42f7415f85cbfab86b209f68\u0022\u003EHon Rick Barker\u003C/span\u003E: I do not take many points of order, but that point of order was very provocative. I sat on the other side of the House, where that member is now, and heard member after member of National questioning the partiality of the Rt Hon Jonathan Hunt and the partiality of the Hon Margaret Wilson. I was galled by it then, and I am even more galled by the member saying that they did not do it. I just wanted to lay that on the record. I accept that the member is correct in that we should not question the impartiality\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4c6eab6304b4d03a1b25bf7c43a97ef\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the House has expressed a view. All I say to all members is that if I have offended a member, I apologise for that, but we have to improve the behaviour. If members think that some of the behaviour that we have seen in recent times is acceptable, then I am sorry, but I disagree. The only way I can make it clear to members that the behaviour is becoming unacceptable is to invite members to look at the tapes to see what the public sees, and to see why we lose respect. That is all I am asking. If comments offend members at times, be assured that it is not without a lot of provocation, because I have been very tolerant of some members\u2019 behaviour. I just want to see the behaviour improve a little.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232a7beec6a0942498ac4ea303c76dcfe\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Without again wanting to revisit the matter, I think you have missed the point, with respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c95886e54c14c7c8573a29c0c932f93\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise. The member will resume his seat. We are not going to waste more time on this. I have not missed the point, at all; I heard what the member said. The member thinks I make too many comments, and maybe I do. I accept that. But it is a way of indicating to a member when their behaviour to me is becoming unacceptable to the House. It is not that I have missed the member\u2019s point; I heard it. Maybe there is some merit in what the member has said, but I can assure the member that the public sees my performance as being absolutely impartial. I get a lot of feedback from the public and they see it as that. In fact, I could say I was criticised somewhat yesterday for not being impartial, but that is enough on that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d002e2389e0b49eaba5d6173a12ed69d\u0022\u003EConstitutional Review\u2014Establishment of Constitutional Advisory Panel\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5759c636d8649c8b1ec87eb6de9dc9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5759c636d8649c8b1ec87eb6de9dc9d\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Deputy Prime Minister: Kei hea ng\u0101 mahi i te w\u0101 nei m\u014D te whakat\u016B rop\u016B \u0101rahi i te arotakenga-wh\u0101nui o ng\u0101 whakaritenga \u0101-ture o Aotearoa?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[What progress has been made on establishing a group to lead a wide-ranging review of New Zealand\u2019s constitutional arrangements?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022868f39ffe6894d13bac090428627c70e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022868f39ffe6894d13bac090428627c70e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E The Government confirmed such a review in December that would include the size of Parliament, the length of the electoral term, M\u0101ori representation, the role of the Treaty of Waitangi, and whether New Zealand needs a written constitution. Today the Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, Dr Pita Sharples, and I confirmed the make-up of the Constitutional Advisory Panel. It will be co-chaired by Professor John Burrows and Sir T\u012Bpene O\u2019Regan. It will shortly begin work on a plan to inform public debate, and it will report back to Ministers in September 2013.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022918461cfc79a49408fc6a5b1dbbfe06a\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: What significance has been accorded to Crown-M\u0101ori relationship matters, including M\u0101ori representation and electoral participation, and how does the membership of the panel reflect this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4c14c84f4a04b5bbce2afa395ac8db8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The significance attributed to the Crown-M\u0101ori relationship is appropriate to the historical and contemporary practice of that relationship. In the context of the panel itself, Dr Sharples and I are supervising the panel together, there are co-chairs\u2014Professor John Burrows and Sir T\u012Bpene O\u2019Regan\u2014and I think the balance of the membership reflects a strong and broad M\u0101ori interest in constitutional matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a8e6ac1b57b499b933372d430bad919\u0022\u003ETe Ururoa Flavell\u003C/span\u003E: How will tangata whenua be involved in the discussion on New Zealand\u2019s constitutional arrangements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e505a6675c934e54b7beff8b15bff2c0\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That discussion will probably begin in earnest next year. The plan of the panel, as I understand it, is to have one meeting this year, then to keep clear of the electoral referendum that is associated with the 2011 election. The panel\u2019s terms of reference require it to listen to a wide range of views. I hope that many M\u0101ori who have strong constitutional views will take the opportunity to air those, so that the public are more familiar with them and get to grips with the implications of those views. Often these discussions are held just between the Crown and M\u0101ori, and they deserve a broader airing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022462751599d314e0f9f05041236b0a811\u0022\u003ESurgery, Elective\u2014North Shore Hospital Centre\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b76bdc7652d7451f82065eb4ff5699ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b76bdc7652d7451f82065eb4ff5699ad\u0022\u003EHon TAU HENARE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What projects has the Government approved to ensure greater access to elective surgery in greater Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022 data-id=\u00222e2a49e870a04251807b12b8c6840259\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e2a49e870a04251807b12b8c6840259\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E More good news. Today the Government has announced approval of a $37 million state-of-the-art elective surgery centre at North Shore Hospital. All of the international evidence points to separating urgent and elective surgery as the best way to lift productivity and treat more patients sooner. The new centre, due for completion next year, will have 40 beds, four operating theatres, and be staffed by a team of 80 clinicians. It will be one of the most medically advanced centres in the country and will provide better access to surgery for the people of greater Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002251dfea20-2244-4fc7-bd7d-ebf7a98580e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b04f41939744b2fb1ab868da5457381\u0022\u003EHon Tau Henare\u003C/span\u003E: What other improvements have there been to health services in Waitemat\u0101?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229496587587854d9388490e586e92a5e5\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: The new elective centre comes hot on the heels of the Lakeview development at North Shore Hospital, which is a 50-bed assessment and diagnostic unit, and of a new emergency department for finalisation in October. This is in addition to the $9.2 million North Shore dialysis centre, which opened last month and provides in-centre renal dialysis for people with kidney failure. The emergency department at Waitakere Hospital is now open 24/7, which is something that the previous Government promised for successive elections and even with the local MP as the Minister of Health could never deliver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9aa17f3677c4f72819ea02ae6061070\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister now correct his statement to the House in June that only 2 to 3 percent of patients waiting for access to elective services are treated after 6 months, when the Auditor-General\u2019s report shows that the figure is in fact 10 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227cc8bb206bd4ce49bc646bc5da9433a\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: More good news. There are fewer and fewer people waiting more than 6 months. The results of the Auditor-General\u2019s report have been quoted by the member, but I can tell the House that when the elective performance comes out in the elective target report in the next few weeks, New Zealanders will be stunned at the performance of the New Zealand public health service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e187105aad674833ac0feab8d2bd1ce2\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister dispute figure 7 of the Auditor-General\u2019s report, which shows that the number of patients waiting longer than 6 months for access to elective surgery increased in both 2009 and 2010; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a83ea07a-806c-45ad-95bb-eb2c481cd0e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a5cb82ecf4b4de4a3630b05e250b89d\u0022\u003EHon TONY RYALL\u003C/span\u003E: What is in the Auditor-General\u2019s report is obviously what is in the Auditor-General\u2019s report. But I can say the number of people waiting longer than 6 months is lower than it was under the previous regime, and we have not culled 30,000 people off waiting lists to try to deal with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ada1f8e7ceac45ed933960e9b557ae43\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: At the risk of testing your patience, Mr Speaker, but given the Minister\u2019s answer to that question, I seek leave to table figure 7 of the Auditor-General\u2019s report, which shows that people waiting for elective surgery\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b03e2d6c2fd43328b3492ed7651fa9d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022630b29d1abe14792a73e8d1edddfca5b\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014longer than 6 months increased in 2010.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022986f55325da1417ea97c6a7a71b8b7f3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All members have access to the reports of the Auditor-General. They are tabled in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298a313e7ffb544c48f0bc21a313dc392\u0022\u003EHon Craig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Just regarding the previous point of order, the member over there who was speaking watched you stand and kept on talking. You said the member should finish, or something along those lines. He tried to, and did, get his last words in whilst you were on your feet, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c08dc2c99a804194b73a7af0bb4ad607\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All I can do is to ask all members please to respect the traditional practice in this place that when the Speaker gets to his feet, members desist. A member left the Chamber yesterday for failing to do so, and I do not want a repeat of that. I ask all members to please respect that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c239906b474541b388c60c1b60a2af02\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would just like to compliment you on that ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022be71661754d64ebc9e21b33a23e7a758\u0022\u003EMonetary Policy, New Zealand\u2014Prime Minister\u2019s Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00227f474bfa26774120bced1b2f24214c38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f474bfa26774120bced1b2f24214c38\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with the Prime Minister that New Zealand\u2019s monetary policy is \u201Cbest practice\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2d37e4463d248c596b06f95e736e3bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2d37e4463d248c596b06f95e736e3bf\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, not that that means necessarily the Reserve Bank has made, in retrospect, the ideal decision in every case, but that view that New Zealand\u2019s monetary policy framework is best practice was confirmed by, I think, five different reviews under the previous Government as well as our own.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022087ebc1d80dd44fd926a63b3abc873ae\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: What changes to monetary policy and Reserve Bank powers is he proposing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d24254ae92c145db9903f4c3d34ebf4d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: We are not proposing significant changes, because we do not believe that such are required. What has happened is that what is now called macro-prudential policy has become an important part of the mix of tools available for determining monetary conditions. The New Zealand Reserve Bank has been something of a world leader in the transparency of its macro-prudential approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225629e08b6d0549f0b59c4036833ba7a7\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen yesterday\u2019s report by Fran O\u2019Sullivan, which said that \u201Ca bizarre alternative reality has emerged which has resulted in Mr English saying New Zealand is a \u2018safe haven\u2019\u00A0\u201D, and \u201CNew Zealand exporters do not need to see the currency get so out of whack with the underlying reality that this is no longer a \u2018safe haven\u2019 for them to operate from.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022608a771ec6d043d09b2948a7fb8199e3\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I think the bizarre alternative reality is what we saw happen in Washington over the last couple of weeks and what we see happening in Europe, where both of those areas are following policies that are devaluing their currencies quite considerably. Of course a high dollar is difficult for exporters\u2014we would much prefer the dollar to be lower\u2014but there is no obvious monetary policy tool that could achieve that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a9437285f38487d964af64393e3c123\u0022\u003EDavid Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What reviews of monetary policy have been conducted over the past decade, what did they conclude, and what changes occurred as a result?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244679b0519ac40eca45a276aed3d12dd\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: There have been number of reviews of monetary policy. The first, in 2000, was by Professor Lars Svensson, who found that our monetary policy is entirely consistent with best international practice. The most recent review was undertaken by the Finance and Expenditure Committee in 2008, under Charles Chauvel. It found that New Zealand\u2019s monetary policy approach is standard among small, open, developed economies and is regarded by our advisers as world best practice. In fact, no changes have been made as a result of four or five reviews over the last 10 years, and that is because no obvious changes can be made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f3c4e14df334018908450c599efbed4\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister also seen reports from exporters like Rakon, recently, and industry bodies like the New Zealand Manufacturers and Exporters Association calling for substantial changes to monetary policy, and is his Government\u2019s inaction in the face of those calls why Fran O\u2019Sullivan said: \u201CKey is playing the old Pontius Pilate line, saying there is nothing the central bank can do to lower the dollar.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df480887686440909e76eb4852d774c9\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Not only have I seen those reports but also I have discussed this matter with any number of exporters. When they are asked just what changes they want to the monetary policy regime, I have found that the various propositions amount to small wording changes, which anyone who knows about monetary policy would say do not make much difference to the practical conduct of monetary policy. We would prefer a lower exchange rate. The world is not delivering that to us, so we have to get on with being a very competitive economy so that our exporters can do business profitably. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221868bef83098423eb229da559f9167e3\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned or embarrassed that in the same article, Fran O\u2019Sullivan said: \u201CBut the Prime Minister\u2019s memory is faulty. Four years ago, Key was singing a different tune when he bailed me up at an Australasian power-brokers conference in Sydney. Back then Key\u2014at the time National leader\u2014argued the New Zealand economy couldn\u2019t sustain exchange rates at US74c.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022719ff483b84649ac825f21d6655cff97\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, not at all. The fact is that the exchange rate has reached levels I do not think any of us anticipated. That simply shows the size of the challenge this economy has in becoming competitive enough to create jobs and incomes. The alternative of more Government spending, higher taxes, and more debt is a recipe for a much worse outlook for exporters, not a better one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f916acc8e8b44d4d820ccc1cf2d64232\u0022\u003ESuperannuation\u2014Retirement Age\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u00225c4e8ebb7e2d415181a592d600b62dc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c4e8ebb7e2d415181a592d600b62dc0\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with former Treasury Secretary John Whitehead that a retirement age of 65 is \u201Cpretty hard to justify\u201D and that an increase is \u201Cinevitable\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00223e39a9dafefc4de7b1a6c4691a9aaa63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e39a9dafefc4de7b1a6c4691a9aaa63\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E No. The Government\u2019s policy is clear: the continuation of universal national superannuation for all New Zealanders from age 65. The cost of this policy does rise, but it is fully factored into all projections made by this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221032b33c64fc469981b78a11910b5bed\u0022\u003EHon Heather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen Gabriel Makhlouf\u2019s speech, made when he was the deputy chief executive of Treasury, where he stated that New Zealand needs to either increase GST to 19 percent or raise average income tax by $30 per week to fund the existing retirement age, and, in light of his Government\u2019s refusal to change the age, which option does he favour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c32f7781c00f4d48879a41899a20a403\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot recall whether I have seen that speech, but it would be entirely consistent with Treasury\u2019s view. As Mr Makhlouf will be finding in his new job as the Secretary to the Treasury, part of the professional task is to be gloomy and forecast that things are going to be pretty rough in the future. I am sure he will stick to that task. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285ef6de673d84ce3b92836cb47127643\u0022\u003EHon Heather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think that John Whitehead; the Retirement Commissioner, Diana Crossan; Gareth Morgan; Bernard Hickey; and others are all wrong in calling for the raising of the retirement age, as Labor Prime Minister Julia Gillard is doing in Australia; if so, what information does he have that they do not have?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf13898e317b4f76a66f030c3abdd69a\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The information we have is a firm commitment made by this Government not to execute that policy. If those advisers all want to change the policy, then they should run for office. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289957ea8ad7148fab1c09e731239a09f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have called the Hon Heather Roy, and I want to hear her question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dce04a59153a4e1d8858ea6d5228e016\u0022\u003EHon Heather Roy\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think it more caring to give retirees time to plan for their future by raising the age over a long transition period, or has he too adopted the John Key approach of leaving the problem of funding superannuation for a future Government that he is not part of to deal with at short notice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022202ca6e07d014dd8b65198cdb67ae70f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, the Government is not leaving the problem. What we are doing is bringing to the Government much-needed fiscal discipline in light of changed circumstances and the recklessness of the last Labour Government, because for every dollar that we can put into effective rather than ineffective services, we are improving the likelihood that retirees in the future will have a decent standard of living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022583ac5e33eb1440c981cf0b0a7579a95\u0022\u003EMine Safety\u2014Underground Mines\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00221cecf8389f384a87bbb97a35971348db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cecf8389f384a87bbb97a35971348db\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: Can she assure underground miners that the Government is doing everything possible to keep them safe at work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6799864851148299d6deda6c81aa47a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6799864851148299d6deda6c81aa47a\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, it is important to remember that the primary responsibility for health and safety in the workplace lies with the employer. That is a fundamental part of the Health and Safety in Employment Act. Secondly, this Government does take the safety of underground miners seriously. That is why we established the Royal Commission on the Pike River Coal Mine Tragedy: to find out what exactly went wrong at Pike River and where safety measures could be improved in the future. We also ordered an independent safety audit of all underground mines to ensure they were operating safely. Underground mining is hazardous, and the Department of Labour is working closely with New Zealand\u2019s three operational underground mines. It is also well advanced in recruiting for another mine inspector. The resources dedicated to this sector are also being evaluated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247e9a76fb5364c9e854c4f8cf9f1d4ea\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Has she instructed her department to employ more underground mine inspectors than the one we have at the moment and to increase mine visits from more than \u201Coccasional\u201D, given her health and safety policy manager\u2019s admission at the royal commission inquiry that \u201C\u2026 we are now thinking that actually we were too hands-off \u2026\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ac610181b4c4c0799205807f1975790\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that we are certainly taking a close look at the resources and expertise in the department to ensure that it can carry out its role of overseeing the mining sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225654f4ce0c6a44219549da57a00df87e\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Can she give an assurance to this House that dangerous ventilation issues at Solid Energy\u2019s Spring Creek Mine will be monitored by a mine inspector with the necessary skills, despite the fact that the one mine inspector who is employed has limited experience in gaseous underground coal mines?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9b925fc69a04562aa3ee5fbfacc2cce\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I remind the member that the primary responsibility for workplace health and safety at the Solid Energy mine remains with Solid Energy. I can also say that Solid Energy was independently audited post the Pike River tragedy and there was found to be no imminent signs of danger.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5e8619f37084c318990ebf4be18c282\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: How can she give assurance of the safety of miners when she has done nothing to improve mine safety since the Pike River tragedy, nor since the spontaneous ignition\u2014that is, explosion\u2014in the Spring Creek Mine, where ventilation problems continue to be a danger, on 29 June?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221395994c467f4e3bacb734614a7ef7b1\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I totally reject that assertion. I can say that it is interesting: the standards are the same as they were under Labour, and the number of mining inspectors is the same as it was under Labour. Under Labour the framework if it was not appropriate then, Labour amended it twice. It did not address mining, whatsoever. There was a call for check inspectors, yes, but Labour also ignored that. It is a bit rich for Labour members to accuse us 9 years later of doing nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a0071f835cd489794bc7cdfdf824b51\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister take responsibility now and, as requested by the families of the Pike River victims, initiate changes to the inspection of underground mines, such as those previously rejected by her in October 2009, when she received advice to make changes that could remove unnecessary workplace risks for underground miners?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022538b32c4f44a4c26a227071a5bcb032b\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: That 2009 report had recommendations relating to small mines. Pike River is not a small mine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224f961e52488d4c1e92ed80c8e405e824\u0022\u003EElectricity, Renewable\u2014Project Consents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u00223d04b28fdf654296908643bbb07d686d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d04b28fdf654296908643bbb07d686d\u0022\u003ENIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: What reports has he received on consents granted on renewable electricity projects since the ETS came into effect and how does this compare with the previous decade?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002208d609d7f3574b4d832b7ff6ad7df266\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208d609d7f3574b4d832b7ff6ad7df266\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E More consents were granted for renewable energy projects in the last year than ever in New Zealand\u2019s history. A total of 1,340 megawatts was consented, which was made up of 59 percent wind energy, 26 percent geothermal energy, 13 percent hydro energy, and 2 percent tidal energy. This is five times the average per year over the previous decade, when it was 233 megawatts per year. It is also noteworthy that no new thermal generation was consented, which contrasts with the last decade, when most of the new capacity was from fossil fuel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc408088cd8d48df956936f197eab139\u0022\u003ENikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: What changes in Government policy have contributed to this surge in renewable energy projects?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222251827047d645808f1e0826405e975c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The first change is in the price signals. The previous Government subsidised fossil fuel generation. The new 155 megawatt Whirinaki diesel station was funded from Government levies, and the Government provided an underwriting guarantee for the gas contract on the massive 385 megawatt e3p new generator at Huntly. In contrast, the emissions trading scheme has imposed a price penalty on fossil fuel generation since 1 July. The second change has been in the consenting policy. Whereas renewable stations used to take up to 5 years to get through the Resource Management Act, our Resource Management Act reforms have freed up the process, and consenting decisions are being made in record time. We have also adopted a Resource Management Act national policy statement on renewables, in order to support increased capacity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264c9d5f6b6f842a0a0e97623abbef352\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: When the Minister suggests that his emissions trading scheme has boosted renewable energy investment, how many of the 11 new stations consented to were, in fact, well under way in planning and consent before the change of Government, or does he pretend it is all his own work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eacd759ba5574afab0daeddf686f2c0b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Of the new generating station capacity of 1,340 megawatts, just over 1,000 megawatts\u2014about 80 percent\u2014was after the emissions trading scheme legislation was passed. It was after the emissions trading scheme legislation was passed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a19f4c67b73441f881766d0a2c5d201\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: That wasn\u2019t the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274d8f1c2eeda425f8b7dbb3944a31f36\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014which I think Mr Parker would note was in the dying days of the last Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab6a7df8fdc34ad7bc292191457f8167\u0022\u003ELow-income New Zealanders\u2014Raising Real Wages\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022476639ccb6d54e7eb7c9ec9d77be152e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022476639ccb6d54e7eb7c9ec9d77be152e\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: What steps has she taken to help raise real wages for low income New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022ebbf1947fc1a45308d223477e5d41dbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ebbf1947fc1a45308d223477e5d41dbe\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We have undertaken a pragmatic programme of reform to help create jobs and grow wages for all New Zealanders. My approach has been to raise the minimum wage steadily so that jobs are preserved and people are not thrown out on to welfare. I have resisted pressure to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour and destroy 6,000 jobs; I have introduced the 90-day trial period, which has helped create 13,000 jobs; and we have reformed the Holidays Act to make it simpler and to improve workplace productivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e6eea0d6b044ceea1214d805d8a576a\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her assertion that the 25c minimum wage increase from 1 April this year will maintain the real value of the minimum wage when, in fact, half of that increase was wiped out in the first 3 months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee938615cc304a0c8da8acf669194f3e\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: The increase in the minimum wage was linked to the consumer price index at the time, and, as always, it is a matter of striking a balance between what is fair to employees\u2014but not pricing them out of a job\u2014and giving employers the incentives and the encouragement to actually take on more employees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f00e420e6c7b466e879f2f2e6797a175\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe she is doing all she can to help minimum wage earners cope with the rising cost of living, given that in real terms the minimum wage has decreased by $16.80 a week since June last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022144680462cbb4e838ecc5b727f12a5a7\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: As we have heard before, the after-tax average wage has actually increased by 7.4 percent, which, after taking inflation into account, is a net increase of 2.1 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eab3f248abf8404ab4adbc6688ffb97a\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware that once inflation is taken into account, according to Parliamentary Library calculations Sam, the minimum wage worker whom the Government used as an example in last year\u2019s tax switch, receives less net income each week now than in June last year, despite his supposed $6.30 tax cut and this April\u2019s small minimum wage increase?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fe0a26c3c2640529060b091f891a6b4\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: We are aware that there are challenging economic times at the moment, but we would rather have workers in jobs than sacrifice them by increasing the minimum wage to an unsustainable and unrealistic level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022972ee1ef08f046f6a0eabf92662f5785\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Why, in her unique position of being both Minister of Labour and Associate Minister of Immigration, has she not been able to put two and two together and realise that the $7 gap between our minimum wage and Australia\u2019s minimum wage is one of the factors driving record levels of migration across the Ditch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239c4a45f37bf43a8a6d4bff43ce99532\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I can put two and two together, and the answer is four.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ae6195e3b2b4bedabe0854f4f140512\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think the Minister could do a little bit better than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022631fd575916e4f5e86859851b24cdf40\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member asked whether the Minister could put two and two together, and I guess the Minister answered that part of the question. I accept that it certainly was not the answer the member was looking for, but in respect of the way we word questions, we are vulnerable to their being answered literally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241ba70e0929c4b848cf674ca7cc144ef\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the calculations from the Parliamentary Library on the change in the real full-time minimum wage since June last year, showing that a minimum wage worker is actually worse off than a year ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022087b1b6d8fc74c5e8bd668905f92f1d7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document prepared by the Parliamentary Library. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022991b657bee27438f9bcb3c356f093a4d\u0022\u003EParents, Teenage\u2014Government Support\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u00226c610e6d064e40cabea285a2a3224e36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c610e6d064e40cabea285a2a3224e36\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What is the Government doing to support teen parents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00229b73c948e8f543669274896302d13ee5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b73c948e8f543669274896302d13ee5\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to update the House on the progress of the Government\u2019s work on teen parents. We have put $15 million into teen parents, which is the biggest investment in one lot that has ever been made. As part of the package we have opened a number of supported homes for teen parents around the country. These supported homes are providing 24/7 support and supervision for these young mothers. The last one is about to be opened very shortly in Gisborne.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022308dc325ad1d44b9bf2c52bf57e2f33e\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: What other initiatives are working to support teen parents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5bf4e634e0a4174936d734373708f5d\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: We also invested a lot in intensive case workers for the most vulnerable of teen parents, who need much more of a wraparound service and who have very complex needs in most of the cases. We so far have 19 of those case workers in very high-need communities, and we have also put additional support in for those intensive case managers so that they can do the work that is needed most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e7a34030aac94bb7ab151c0e508c00cb\u0022\u003ELead-acid Batteries, Used\u2014Export and Compliance with Basel Convention\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022b84784c9f4ba49f2963d939f2315b943\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b84784c9f4ba49f2963d939f2315b943\u0022\u003EDAVID CLENDON (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: How many tonnes of used lead acid batteries has the Government approved for export since January 2008, and is this consistent with New Zealand\u2019s obligations under the Basel Convention?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00221a21c43a91eb439da6de739a310a17af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a21c43a91eb439da6de739a310a17af\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Responsibility for new export permits transferred from the Ministry of Economic Development to my portfolio on 1 July this year, as part of the Government\u2019s Environmental Protection Agency reforms. Permits were issued by the Ministry of Economic Development for 26,000 tonnes in 2008, 33,000 tonnes in 2009, 18,510 tonnes in 2010, and 17,000 tonnes so far this year. I am advised that those permits were issued by the Ministry of Economic Development, consistent with New Zealand\u2019s Basel convention obligations. Since becoming the responsible Minister, I have initiated a formal review of our domestic policy. My preference is for these batteries to be recycled in New Zealand, although I will need to be satisfied about the environmental standards, given the quite chequered record of the Exide Technologies plant in P\u0113tone. A further important consideration is the cost to consumers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc98a4972d9041209fe05c2fb4fd8ed8\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister, then, agree that exporting this volume of batteries is inconsistent with our Basel convention obligation to recycle batteries locally, and that it could lead to the closure of our only domestic battery recycling facility?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f5279f3475e4cd59d2e195c1e053cfc\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The advice I have from the Ministry of Economic Development is that those export permits were issued in a consistent way. There are two countries that those batteries have gone to: the Philippines and Korea. The Basel convention differentiates between developing and developed countries. Ministry of Economic Development officials did inspect the Philippines facility. They advised me that the standards there are the same, or better, than those of our own plant in P\u0113tone. I am happy to table in the House the report on that Philippines plant. The other important differentiation is that the Basel convention differentiates between waste to be recycled and that to be disposed of. So the member needs to focus on the recycling provisions of the Basel convention rather than those for disposal, in respect of these batteries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea6d78c8bb9d40da878ecef05b30b913\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain how, if we lose the capacity to recycle batteries locally, we can continue to meet our obligations under the Basel convention?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022872fa63a51124b34b2f34c2dd21bde01\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The obligation is to ensure that such waste is responsibly disposed of, and to ensure that where a country is exporting hazardous waste, either for disposal or recycling, it is being done in a proper way and that that country is aware of it. That is to say, there has been a historical problem of developed countries like New Zealand sending waste off to countries that have no idea it is coming in, and where it is not being properly disposed of. I restate that my preference is for these batteries to be recycled in New Zealand, but I do have to be satisfied that Exide Technologies has an appropriate plant with proper conditions for the local environment. I remind the member that there have been substantive problems with those resource consents in P\u0113tone, and, given the toxic nature of lead, I think we would want to be strongly reassured of the plant\u2019s environmental performance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ceb53bf7a6be4e9bb00510e8394b980a\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister then confident that all overseas facilities receiving batteries from New Zealand have suitable environmental and safety standards to meet obligations under the Basel convention?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230f32e26dd1c42b7944f6ec86ffe8643\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The advice I have had from the Ministry of Economic Development is that it is satisfied. I think that is a core issue, and one of the reasons I have initiated the review is that now this responsibility has moved over from the Ministry of Economic Development to my own portfolio, I want to sort of kick the tyres and make sure that we are doing best practice. If there is the opportunity to work with the Green Party on that, I would welcome the opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c569e692749e444797c03f61582d4f59\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister consider that a hand-written note that says \u201CFine by me.\u201D on an export application indicates that a sufficiently rigorous assessment has taken place before the export of batteries has been approved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bb9ec97bf4b4a2d97fec9b7830adf03\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I do not believe that that is correct. I have before me the report from the Ministry of Economic Development officials who visited the battery recycling plant in the Philippines. It is a quite a detailed report. It is interesting to note that in respect of the air-quality standards that are required to be met in the Philippines, the standards are the same as the current standards required in P\u0113tone. There are some differences on the issue of water-quality standards. In my view, the way we should move this issue forward is that it is absolutely proper that if we are exporting batteries, the standards we would expect of any overseas recycler of those batteries should be exactly the same standards we would expect of a New Zealand facility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267ed67c9010b4390aab061730eeb456f\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. With respect to the Minister, I think he may have misunderstood the question. I was not asking a question relating to the quality or otherwise of the destination, but in fact I was asking about an export application document on which an official had written a note \u201CFine by me.\u201D, which was apparently the extent of the assessment that had been done prior to the approval being granted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022108901549c4744148f0413d345ebf98f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thought\u2014and the Minister will correct me\u2014the Minister indicated he did not accept that that was the extent of the assessment of the application. But if I am wrong there, the Minister should correct that, because the question was very specific about that, indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022388b7f7087e9453cb1315849470ac129\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave of the House to table the report by the Ministry of Economic Development on its visit to the facility in the Philippines, setting out the inspection and the environmental standards of the facility that is recycling those batteries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1bd4cc68b0c47b68e8fd6a25e6e0e06\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EBut I come back to the point of order raised by David Clendon. It did not relate to matters in the Philippines; it related to exports from New Zealand, I take it, and an\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ce79a45568547b7a4d1ae8734b1eba5\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd112e0b1bd44e928c1f7228050f3c78\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, if the Minister could clarify\u2014what I will do to make it all clear is ask David Clendon to repeat his question. If he could repeat his supplementary question, because it was a fair question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d376d9cfa60486b89c8eabaae23ef5a\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister consider that a hand-written note, which says \u201CFine by me.\u201D on an export application, indicates that a sufficiently rigorous assessment has taken place before export of batteries has been approved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e1fafee1a494dc8b52cd7e19bdc04c6\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I have not been the responsible Minister for the period going backwards; no permits have been issued by my own ministry. My advice from the Ministry of Economic Development is that these batteries are being exported to facilities in Korea and to a facility in the Philippines. Korea, of course, is a developed country, so there are different provisions, under the Basel convention, for relying on its regulatory sense. As I have already indicated to the House, I am happy to table the detailed report on the facility in the Philippines where the batteries have been sent to from New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022731c57e2b5644767ba9c51f8f7bca4e7\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a hand-written note from the Ministry of Economic Development, which says \u201CFine by me.\u201D, regarding the granting of an application to export batteries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225a9c3a445bf4ad0b3a40d690b435eb8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a6db7323c4b498e9a62d58f16286057\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that an export application may be approved\u2014and indeed has been approved\u2014despite an assessment from officials that \u201CWe are not fulfilling our obligations under the Basel convention.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e20384d944b4a61b5d191b7b50ab0c6\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I will restate that I have been responsible only since 1 July when the functions were transferred over. No, I am not aware of that. But I re-stress that since taking responsibility for these Basel convention responsibilities, I have initiated a review of the policy. I restate the Government\u2019s objective\u2014that is, that if batteries are to be exported from New Zealand our expectation is that they will be recycled, or be dealt with as waste, to a standard that would be no different from what we can reasonably expect from a facility dealing with that waste or recycling in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c91d27e797b4ee1bec6227434e24f5b\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table an export approval document, obtained from the Ministry of Economic Development, which states \u201CWe are not fulfilling our obligations under the Basel convention.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294a5bc9d187742b2ac1e87075952e2b8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e959f20f-3de7-4f54-8577-8ea78d72c3dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022731dc9ef5a054159b682912dd4882f51\u0022\u003EDavid Clendon\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister ensure that the review is completed in a timely fashion, ensuring that all future applications to export batteries are dealt with in a way that complies with the Basel convention?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fe25242501a425caeca5c36949ac7fe\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The Ministry of Economic Development currently has three export permits before it. The bill that has now become an Act, which was put through this Parliament, makes plain that applications that were received prior to 1 July remain as the responsibility of the Ministry of Economic Development. My responsibilities will be for any future applications that are lodged after 1 July.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb49ee66-7ca7-472d-a4a1-b099fd594dfa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223ddd108c3684d49b14052c4bd80e1ef\u0022\u003EDr Russel Norman\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I wonder whether the Minister could address the question of the timeliness of the review. When will the review be completed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022251f036212174cbaa4ab840011e51e83\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the Minister, I think it is a reasonable point of order because the question actually asked about the review, not about the application. But if there is doubt about the question, I ask David Clendon to repeat his question please, if he can remember it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d7ca530cead47c5a45c5000a3c57b86\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: There are two parts to the question, and I did answer the part about the further permits. I am more than happy to answer the question about the review. I have asked my officials to prepare the terms of reference. I will want to consult Exide Technologies about the terms of reference, to get that policy under way. I do understand the point the Greens make, and that is that it does need to be done in a timely way. I also note that the Greater Wellington Regional Council is dealing with the resource consent issues for Exide Technologies simultaneously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c8a3c6ec7164a91a6753d0b0cd03d27\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f426e464b5547d7a70e867faa9d4c58\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept that it might be preferable to export the batteries, rather than have them processed at a plant where there has been a history of workers getting lead poisoning, lead emissions going to the neighbours, the dumping of sludge in the Wainui\u014Dmata area, which polluted the stream\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e003704fd7448e7a910191c20451306\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: You did nothing about it when you were a Minister, Trevor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a3c5937fa384c21a1756d0176fa6b66\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022747e8ec66be942b682c0bb84754425a5\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Paul Quinn might not care about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff4bfa43c1bb4d949dc00a5fb27108ae\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members should not interject like that. I do ask the member to ask his question, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a1cf115db794b28ac7f5e6a5b76c6cb\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept that it might be preferable to export the batteries, rather than have them processed at a plant that has a history of explosions, causing damage to workers both by lead and by the explosions, leakage at the boundary going into neighbours, a history of sickness of workers from lead poisoning, a history of dumping sludge in the Wainui\u014Dmata tip, then going into the Wainui\u014Dmata Stream, and that is now trying to save its bacon by employing a high-priced law firm to work with the Greens to ask these questions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221769f8aa474e4e44be2211e76a8c4026\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The track record of the Exide Technologies plant in P\u0113tone is not acceptable. If we are to recycle the batteries in New Zealand, rather than export them, the Government needs to be satisfied that that facility is run by world best practice. The underlying issue for this Government is whether the batteries are recycled and processed in New Zealand or overseas and that those standards are proper and protect public health and the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ead45a419c864ea59695d1a64a8a7287\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That brings to a close questions for oral answer today. I call on Government order of the day No. 1. [Interruption] Before I call the Hon Peter Dunne, can I say to Paul Quinn at the back of the House that he was most discourteous. I had called Government order of the day No. 1, but I could not even hear the Clerk, because the member\u2019s interjections provoked other noise. There is nothing wrong with interjections, but just be a little more sensible and reasonable about when the interjections are made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fd08db450fc5438ab320ea9236606718\u0022\u003EMisuse of Drugs Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d313f00cbec649eeab91c90cc5ca50e6\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022 data-id=\u0022858952b2816948d2913b3baa9b315cff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022858952b2816948d2913b3baa9b315cff\u0022\u003EHon PETER DUNNE (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill be now read a third time. The third reading of this bill gives me a great deal of pleasure. What began as a bill with the primary purpose of reclassifying pseudoephedrine and ephedrine as class B2 controlled drugs has become, out of necessity, a bill that will also enable the Government to more easily deal with the potential harms associated with new and emerging psychoactive substances like Kronic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe amendment that I introduced by way of Supplementary Order Paper on Tuesday provides a mechanism to temporarily ban substances where there is reason for concern about their use, and that will be achieved by issuing temporary drug class notices for these particular substances. In the event that such a notice is issued for a substance or a product, retailers will then have 7 days to remove the product from their shelves and it must not be sold after that time. The substance in question will then be referred to an expert committee to consider it and to make recommendations for the appropriate ongoing level of control of that substance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EIn the case of the products currently causing widespread concern\u2014that is, the synthetic cannabinoids and products like Kronic\u2014I will be issuing a temporary drug class notice as soon as possible after this bill receives the Royal assent next week. That will mean these products must be off the shelves no more than 1 week later. In these circumstances my advice to current retailers is simple: return their stocks to their supplier right now. Do not wait for the notice to be issued, because it is ultimately the distributors\u2019 responsibility and it is they who should bear the cost, not the retailer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EAt this point I would like to thank both Ministry of Health officials and the Parliamentary Counsel Office for their hard work developing this Supplementary Order Paper. I acknowledge the effort they put into getting the drafting absolutely right, but I must also reiterate the point I made during the Committee of the whole House that the provisions contained in the Supplementary Order Paper are not the long-term solution. The Law Commission\u2019s 45 recommendations in this area remain the goal, as there can be no doubt of the logic that a manufacturer of such products should be required to demonstrate their safety before they enter the market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EBut the Law Commission\u2019s recommendations are very high-level and it is important we work through the detailed policy required to implement such a regime, to ensure we get the new regulatory framework right. I say to those who have been calling for the immediate implementation of the Law Commission\u2019s 144 recommendations for updating the Misuse of Drugs Act that they have either failed genuinely to understand the complexities of the issues involved or been deliberately ignorant in advocating sensationalist solutions to complex issues they were incapable of understanding. Either way, we are past that now. The temporary drug class notification process will enable us to better manage the influx of new substances than the current legislation allows. The Government is determined to get this right. It is not going to be rushed into superficial responses that will have to be rectified later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003ELet me now discuss the major part of this bill as it was introduced. The Prime Minister released the Methamphetamine Action Plan in October 2009 with an aim to significantly reduce the use of methamphetamine and, consequently, reduce the harms it causes in our communities. Methamphetamine is the only illegal stimulant drug commonly manufactured in our country, and we have very high rates of use by international standards. Methamphetamine increases the risk of cardiovascular problems, convulsions, and mental health disturbances, including paranoia and violent behaviour. The Methamphetamine Action Plan includes a comprehensive package of measures to control methamphetamine precursors, to break drug supply-chains, to improve access and routes into drug treatment, to improve support for the community to combat this drug, and to provide stronger leadership by the Government. The harms posed by the diversion of pseudoephedrine to the manufacture of methamphetamine outweigh the need for the ongoing over-the-counter availability of preparations containing this substance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EAlthough most pseudoephedrine and ephedrine used in the manufacture of P has been sourced internationally, their reclassification as class B2 controlled drugs is still an important part of the equation. Police continue to find domestically sourced pseudoephedrine at clandestine methamphetamine laboratories. The Health Committee, in its report, notes that the methamphetamine market is worth about $1 billion annually, and that at least 10 percent of this is manufactured from domestic pseudoephedrine. Therefore, we cannot ignore over $100 million worth of the methamphetamine market. We need to compliment the valuable work of the Customs Service and the police and strengthen our response to domestic diversion. Reclassification of these substances as class B2 controlled drugs will also give the police and customs increased powers to control supply, such as being able to obtain a warrant to intercept communications. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EAs members are aware, the other amendments contained within this bill are technical and are necessary to clarify, tighten, or correct current provisions within the Act. The part that generated the most attention at the Health Committee\u2014and, indeed, it has met with the most opposition in the House\u2014was the part that amends the drug paraphernalia provisions to close two loopholes in the Act, to enable the police and customs to enforce the current law effectively. I have to confess that it strikes me as strange that there is such strong opposition from some members, given that in 2003 a notice was issued under section 22 of the Act that prohibited the import and supply of cannabis and methamphetamine utensils. All the current amendments do is to enable this piece of legislation to be enforced\u2014in other words, to actually give effect to the 2003 order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThis bill also removes thalidomide from class A of the Misuse of Drugs Act so that it can be more appropriately controlled under the Medicines Act. Thalidomide is not psychoactive nor is it used recreationally. Its place under the Misuse of Drugs Act is an anomaly that will be rectified with this amendment. The bill also corrects a problematic overlap between the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Act 2005 and the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act 1996 by removing the exclusion that a hazardous substance cannot also be a restricted substance. I touched on this briefly on Tuesday, and I will make the point again: we are correcting a mistake, to enable a framework in place since 2005, but unable to be used due to the wording in the legislation, to be available as a regulating mechanism. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThe restricted substances regime places robust controls on low-risk psychoactive drugs such as so-called party pills and legal highs that would otherwise be uncontrolled. The amendment that is proposed in this bill will remove the barrier to the use of the restricted substances regime. In addition, as introduced in the Supplementary Order Paper on Tuesday, the bill will enable restricted substances to also be considered as herbal smoking products for the purposes of the Smoke-free Environments Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EFinally, this bill will strengthen our legislation by broadening our analogue provisions, to make sure we are prepared for emerging designer drugs. The controlled drug analogue provisions prevent a large number of substances treated and traded as legal highs in other countries, such as the substance mephedrone, from being able to be sold legally in New Zealand. However, it is necessary that the proposed amendment to our current provisions is enacted, to protect against developments that are ongoing and many in the chemistry of designer drugs. I am sure that all members acknowledge that this is an area where we face constant challenge and change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003EThis bill is an important step forward. It is with considerable pleasure that I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022205f9b98e3114a67a7c1fd06d6281d9d\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is\u2014is the member calling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227df49f54f1934e07bd2ef4c1ac9b1821\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am calling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a22fcb139b6245f38f7473e5b63c1299\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the honourable member Iain Lees-Galloway. Members must call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022de21960cd2ce4334a6ca9a6c6cd9c690\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de21960cd2ce4334a6ca9a6c6cd9c690\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, thank you very much, Mr Assistant Speaker Robertson. Let me say at the outset that Labour supports the third reading of the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill, as we have supported it throughout every stage of its passage through Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWe support any measure that reduces the harm caused by the abuse and misuse of mind-altering substances. However, although this bill will probably not make matters any worse, it will do very little to reduce the harm caused by the particular set of mind-altering substances captured by the Misuse of Drugs Act. It is, in effect, merely tinkering with the current Act. If this Parliament is serious about tackling the issue of substance abuse and the effects of substance abuse on both individuals and communities, then we will move with all practicable haste towards a total replacement of the Misuse of Drugs Act. Continued tinkering with the current Act simply will not do the job. It is time for a 21st century response to a 21st century issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe original Act came into force in the mid-1970s. Since then, substances have changed. Attitudes have changed. Our ability to treat those who suffer because of addiction to any drug\u2014whether it be alcohol, cannabis, P, or any other substance\u2014has changed as well. And I do mean treat. It is time we put the health system, not the justice system, at the centre of drug legislation. But that is a debate for another day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI wish to talk about the provisions in this bill, but I would also like to talk about just how much of a priority this bill has been for the Government. The bill was introduced in April last year. Its first reading did not happen for another 4 months. It was referred to the Health Committee and reported back to the House in November last year. Since then, the bill has languished on the Order Paper, clearly not a priority for the current Government. When I hear the Government\u2019s rhetoric about its war on P, I question just how much of a priority this has been. We are now in August, and this bill has been sitting on the Order Paper since last November. It has not been a priority for the current Government. I have no doubt that National members will stand up and praise Associate Minister of Health Peter Dunne, and he should be praised for some of his work that is in the bill, particularly his amendments brought in earlier this week by way of a Supplementary Order Paper. When I hear the Government\u2019s rhetoric that drug abuse and the war on P are its priorities, I think it is laughable, considering how long it has taken for this bill to pass through the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EWhat does this bill actually do? As the Minister said, the original intention was to reclassify ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, which are the precursor substances for pure methamphetamine\u2014P. We know that as enormous a problem as P is in this country, at best these changes will help to address maybe 30 percent of the supply of methamphetamine in this country. It is probably more like 10 percent if we are really realistic. That is significant and that is why Labour is supporting this bill, because, as I said, any measure that takes a positive step is worth supporting. But, again, if we are honest, and if we are realistic about just how much of a measure this is in tackling the P problem in this country, then we would realise that this is minor. This is small stuff. The real problem is these precursor elements coming across our border in the flood of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine\u2014mainly from China, and from other parts of the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI know that people across New Zealand now have to forfeit their ability to get without prescription what is probably the best cold and flu medicine available. I think people will see that forfeiture as reasonable, given the rhetoric around what the Government has said about its war on P, but in truth this is small stuff. I have to say, having walked around Parliament Buildings over the last few days and heard the coughs, sniffles, and all the noises that have been associated with some of the illnesses going around this place at the moment, that pseudoephedrine will be missed, particularly around this place but also around the country. We accept why this is being done, but let us have a little bit of honesty about just how important a measure this is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe other important aspect of this bill, which only occurred earlier this week, is the changes that will allow the Minister to take the synthetic cannabis products off the shelf and to respond quicker to new substances as they come on to the market. We still have the problem that new substances can get on to the market before they are properly tested. That to me is one of the fundamental problems with the current Act, and is one of the most important reasons why we need to totally review and replace the current Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI congratulate the Minister on finding a stopgap measure whilst Parliament takes its time to consider the Law Commission\u2019s review and to consider what options are available for a serious replacement for this Act. It will allow us to get these products off the shelf while a testing regime is developed to ensure that these substances are safe before they are on the shelf again and able to be marketed to our young people. I think that one of the best things about this bill is not so much the fact that the substances are being banned for a 12-month period\u2014as I have said before and I will say again, prohibition has its limitations\u2014but that these substances will not be visible, they will not be marketed, and they will not be in dairies, liquor stores, and other places where people go to find normal products to take home like bread, milk, lollies, and all those sorts of things. That is important. Just as I do not believe that tobacco should be on display alongside those sorts of products, nor do I believe that things like Kronic, Spice, and Dream should be on the shelf alongside those other products. That is the aspect of these changes that I am most pleased with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThere are some other matters in this bill that Labour is not pleased with. The Minister touched on them, and he expressed his confusion over the opposition to the increased enforcement on drug utensils. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f555a23a-d230-4f03-80ba-a44e6ec8bd29\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d76c643bf684776b473a4220b85e186\u0022\u003EHon Peter Dunne\u003C/span\u003E: Concern, not confusion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259458e8c67ad464199999c75d05bbddb\u0022\u003EIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Concern, right. We know what these provisions do, and the bill allows the current provisions to be enforced more rigorously. The fact of the matter is that these provisions that ban the importation and the display of drug utensils do nothing to reduce harm. That, as I have said time and time again, is what should be at the centre of drug law in this country. It should be about minimising and reducing harm. Anything that does away with utensils or makes it harder for users to acquire utensils actually increases the harm associated with drug use; it does not minimise it. That is why we expressed our opposition to those provisions. To be fair, if we were going to be absolutely consistent, then we would get rid of the original provisions in the Act. But what we want to see, as I said, is not more tinkering with this Act; we want to see a complete replacement of the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EIt is not all bad news. The removal of thalidomide makes absolute sense. It is not a mind-altering substance, and its place in the Misuse of Drugs Act is a complete anomaly that is absolutely ridiculous. The changes that allow substances that come under the purview of the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act to also come under the purview of the Misuse of Drugs Act are also eminently sensible, and we support those changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EBut I cannot express strongly enough that the useful time for the Misuse of Drugs Act is coming to an end. It is time for a replacement. It is time for Parliament to take seriously issues relating to drug use and drug misuse in this country, and to come up with new and innovative solutions that put the health system at the centre of our response to drug abuse. That time cannot come quickly enough. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u002245260a8715b04fc99c0e9d1d3f0d141f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245260a8715b04fc99c0e9d1d3f0d141f\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E In supporting this third reading of the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill, everyone in Parliament is aware of just how difficult the challenges of psychoactive drugs are to New Zealand society. Over the last decade or so there has been an explosion of the use of highly addictive, mind-altering substances, and pure methamphetamine is one substance at the centre of them. Today New Zealanders are probably some of the highest users of P anywhere in the world. There has also been an explosion in the use of synthetic cannabinoids, which are now available at corner dairies around our country, and there is a real danger of normalising this situation for our young people. These drugs must not be normalised. Smoking them has significant long-term adverse health effects, and there is no doubt that their psychoactive effects, when mixed with alcohol, can be hugely detrimental.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EWe are all aware that the Law Commission stressed the value of rehabilitation services, of education, of harm minimisation, and of a public health approach, and its report will be visited very seriously, I am sure, by all of us. But the Law Commission also stressed that there were no silver bullets to this situation. It is highly complex; there are no simple solutions. Abuse of drugs and the callous commercial trade associated with them has gone on for centuries around the world, and it has become more and more intense in New Zealand over recent times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThis legislation is a part of the National Government\u2019s response to, and battle against, pure methamphetamine. Reclassifying pseudoephedrine and ephedrine as class B drugs carries with it a very severe penalty, and sends very clear messages that methamphetamine and its precursors in this country are utterly unacceptable. The Hon Peter Dunne must indeed be congratulated on bringing in his two Supplementary Order Papers to stop the sale of synthetic cannabinoids. The manufacturers cannot be trusted; they are conniving and ruthless and will stop at nothing to entice young New Zealanders into drug dependency. This is an interim measure until such time as one can bring in legislation that will require the manufacturers to prove the safety of these drugs. The sooner that happens the better, but in the meantime I support the third reading of this bill into legislation. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022801c0cad8ac84d63b21ea39442eca25d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022801c0cad8ac84d63b21ea39442eca25d\u0022\u003EGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E It would be fair to say that I stand in the third reading debate as a reluctant supporter of the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill\u2014not because I in any way want to be seen to be endorsing the production of methamphetamine in New Zealand, or in any sense countenancing or accepting the great harm caused by P in our community. I totally accept the need for us as a Parliament to work together on the scourge that is P, and to make sure that we minimise harm, as my colleague Iain Lees-Galloway has said, across the spectrum of drug abuse. Those things we take on board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut as we look through the provisions in this bill I am concerned. As somebody who was not, for the most part, on the Health Committee when the bill was being dealt with, I ask myself whether this is the best use of Parliament\u2019s time when it comes to dealing with questions about the Misuse of Drugs Act. I think we need to make sure that when we are making changes like this, the changes are long-lasting, durable, and actually modernise law when we should modernise law. The Minister has taken the decision to use a stopgap-style approach. At one level we can support that, and Labour is supporting the bill because we recognise there is a need to do something here. But, at another level, the fact that the Government has dragged its heels is intensely frustrating, as is the fact that we have a Law Commission report available to us that provides the basis for a full rewrite of the Misuse of Drugs Act, yet we are not making progress on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI will speak about three sections of the bill. The first of those is the reclassification of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine. Again, we know that the precursors to methamphetamine are ephedrine and pseudoephedrine. We on this side of the House realise the importance of being able to deal with the supply of those precursors. But, as my colleague Iain Lees-Galloway has said, 90 percent, probably\u2014maybe 80 percent, or with a big stretch 70 percent\u2014of that precursor product is imported into this country. It is not being bought across the counters of pharmacies. That is the truth. As somebody, I might say, who is unable to use the product phenylephrine, I find myself struggling to find a cold remedy available to me when suffering from a cold, as I am today and have been for the last week. Pseudoephedrine products are important to people, and I acknowledge that they will still be available via prescription. But the question we have to ask ourselves when we make law like this is whether this position is the best we can come to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI know that in the select committee the Pharmaceutical Society of New Zealand stated, in fact, that the alternatives to pseudoephedrine were not as effective, and that they leave many people needing to visit a general practitioner for a prescription for symptomatic relief. That exposes them and others to further infection, and poses an unwelcome increase in workload for general practices. So the truth is that the expert evidence\u2014indeed, including evidence from some experts within this House\u2014is that pseudoephedrine products tend to be those that have the most effective results. There are alternatives to moving to a prescription-based approach for pseudoephedrine and ephedrine products, including having models trialled in some parts of the country where there are pharmacy systems to detect and report inappropriate purchase. Those models could be tried. So it is reluctantly that I say yes, we must do something about this. We do not want to stand in the way of that; there are elements of this bill that are good. But I look at this and ask whether this is the end result. I have a feeling that when we return to these matters as part of an overall review of the Misuse of Drugs Act, we might find that things change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI will speak briefly about the Supplementary Order Paper that the Minister has brought in about the creation of these temporary class drug notices. That is obviously the stopgap measure that the Minister has brought in to try to do something about products such as Kronic and others that we have had a lot of publicity about in recent times. I spoke in the Committee stage of the debate about the fact that I am concerned there will be loopholes in this legislation that mean that, despite the best efforts of the Minister, products with slightly different chemical make-ups will appear on the market. The Minister will clamp down upon them via his Gazette notice\u20147 days and then it is off the shelf\u2014but then, lo and behold, another product will appear with a slightly different chemical make-up and the whole process will have to be repeated over and over again. I do not foresee that this legislation will remove those products from the market, but, as Iain Lees-Galloway has said, it will limit them, and it will prevent them from being available in so many places and from being as visible as they are now. Therefore, some good will be done, but I believe that the loopholes will be such that there may not actually be the amount of restriction of supply that the Minister would like to see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOverall, though, what this highlights is the desperate need to change the onus of proof about a product, a synthetic cannabinoid product, so that before it enters the market in New Zealand it is properly tested and assessed. It is, in my view, ridiculous that we have a situation where products such as these, psychoactive substances such as these, can enter the New Zealand market without any kind of testing. The onus of proof must be turned on to the producers of these products so that we do not continue to repeat this situation. When it comes to temporary class drug notices, I join with my colleagues in supporting the fact that a stopgap measure is available, but I am concerned that there are loopholes, and that the possibility of stockpiling continues to exist. As my colleague\u2014again, Iain Lees-Galloway\u2014has said, let us be honest about this provision. Let us be honest about the fact that it is not going to rid the country of synthetic cannabinoids. What it is going to do is limit the way in which they are sold, and perhaps the amount of them that is available. We support the provision because that is a good thing, but it is most certainly not the end of the story.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe other matter I will particularly address is the question of the long-term future of drug law in New Zealand. I believe that it is the responsibility of this House to consider today and as soon as possible how we can come up with a whole new piece of legislation on the question of the Misuse of Drugs Act. As other speakers have said during other stages of this debate, the Misuse of Drugs Act is from another time. It is from a time when different drugs were available. The availability of drugs in total was completely different. The Law Commission recognised that in its report, tabled in this House on 3 May. That report has 144 recommendations in it. It actually includes making the possession of drug utensils legal, which is an interesting point given what we are going to be doing in this bill today. Should we come to the situation where we decide to implement the Law Commission\u2019s report, we may well be undoing elements of what we are doing today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut the report also calls for a more lenient approach to social dealers and those caught with small amounts of illegal drugs for personal use. The Law Commission President, Justice Grant Hammond, said that although the law must continue to impose heavy penalties on those who profit from the manufacture and sale of illicit drugs, there are compelling arguments for adopting a more holistic focus to individual drug offending. To simplify that, I say that the criminal element around drugs is in the supply. We need to have a harm-minimisation approach when it comes to use and personal use, and we need to ensure that we address the real crime of drugs rather than create crimes in an unnecessary focus on some of that individual personal use. This is not just me; this is the Law Commission. I think it is vitally important today, as we pass what everyone in this House is acknowledging as a stopgap measure, that we acknowledge there is a need for a fundamental reform of drug law in New Zealand. The Law Commission has given us the blueprint for that; I am disappointed that the Government is not moving forward more quickly on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House we know that we need to take a responsible approach, and send a signal to the community that the purveyors of synthetic cannabinoids need to know that their products represent a risk, and that they will not enter this market without being watched, closely monitored, and removed where possible. But I call upon the House to ensure that we can with all speed possible return to this House with a bill that properly addresses the misuse of drugs, and that creates a modern law rather than this kind of stopgap measure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022665bfbcb5ca643a696b64e136284d9df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022665bfbcb5ca643a696b64e136284d9df\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e hoa. I begin by saying that the Green Party in many senses agrees with our Labour colleagues\u2014and I paraphrase somewhat here\u2014in saying that the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill contains provisions that are a daft, counter-productive waste of time and effort. But unlike our Labour colleagues, because of that we will be voting against the bill rather than for it. If the bill had, instead, been a bill that enacted provisions of the Law Commission\u2019s report on the misuse of drugs or even the recommendations from the Law Commission in respect of the matters that this bill covers, we would certainly be voting for it. We would much rather that this House debated a bill of that sort, rather than the nonsense that is before us today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThere is no question that many drugs cause harm, and some kind of response by Government is required because of that. None the less, it is also true that many New Zealanders make use of drugs, especially alcohol, which is probably far and away the most-used drug in New Zealand. It is important that the Government\u2019s response to drugs and drug-related harm reflects an appropriate balance between the benefits that, clearly, the individuals who use those drugs perceive that they derive from them and the actual evidence-based harms that result from those drugs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe Green Party\u2019s policy, in fact, is that a drug-free lifestyle is the best lifestyle to have. But we recognise that for many people that is not the kind of lifestyle they will lead. So we say that a Government\u2019s response to drugs must be one that is consistent\u2014it deals with drugs in a consistent way, based on their harms\u2014and derives its assessment of those harms from good-quality scientific evidence. It is also important that the response should be, as both Iain Lees-Galloway and Grant Robertson have said in this debate tonight, a response that is focused on reducing the health-related harm, rather than a punitive response to offending. The Law Commission\u2019s report Controlling and Regulating Drugs: A Review of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975 provides us with an excellent springboard, an excellent starting point, for precisely that kind of response, for the first time in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EIn many ways, the bill before us represents the antithesis of that kind of response. It represents the very worst aspects of the way that Governments of all stripes have responded to drug-related issues. It is ham-fisted; it is slow to respond to problems that have existed for some time. Take the issue of synthetic cannabinoids. The Minister is rushing his Supplementary Order Paper into the bill so fast that the public has had no say at all on the new provisions, yet these products have been on retail shelves for 5 years. So there is no need for that urgency. It is ham-fisted, but that is easily avoided. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe three provisions to which the Green Party has expressed objection relate to utensils, pseudoephedrine, and synthetic cannabinoids. In fact, people who would be committing offences under these particular provisions of the bill will simply make small adjustments to their behaviour and be able to carry on, with no real change. So an awful lot of time, energy, and effort will have gone into achieving nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThis response creates harms to others, and Grant Robertson has just expressed some of those. He is a person whom Minister Dunne encourages, when he gets a cold, to visit his general practitioner, sit in the waiting room, and give his cold to other people, thereby increasing the amount of illness in New Zealand society. Is that the kind of response that we want? I do not think so. It reflects the disproportionate response to the actual harms related to these particular provisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003ELastly, and I drew attention to this in the Committee stage, it does violence to parliamentary process\u2014and I have mentioned that in relation to synthetic cannabinoids\u2014and also to the principles of lawmaking. I spoke in the second reading of how the provisions relating to utensils represent extremely poor drafting of New Zealand law. I will not repeat those same arguments that I made in earlier stages of the debate in relation to utensils and pseudoephedrine, and the Minister\u2019s sweeping powers relating to more or less any substance at all. The Minister talks about provisions to control the supply of synthetic cannabinoids, but, in fact, the provisions in this bill go much, much further than that. They go to any substance at all that might cause harm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EIn the debate in this House we have talked about psychoactive substances, and, again, the bill is not restricted to psychoactive substances, at all. When this bill is passed Minister Dunne will be able to ban, for 12 months, more or less any substance at all. I drew attention to the fact that he would be able to ban salt. Is that truly the kind of outcome that this House wants? Yet it is exactly the kind of outcome that results from the ad hoc and ham-fisted way that Governments have gone about drug policy-making. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003ELastly, I want to draw the attention of the House to a comment made by the Hon Peter Dunne in the Committee stage. The Hon Heather Roy and I both spoke in the Committee stage against the provisions that he was attempting to introduce into the bill in relation to these substances. The Minister, speaking from the chair, made the comment that Heather Roy and I had never encountered a drug that we did not like. I draw this to the attention of the House because I found that comment to be not only extremely offensive but also reflective of exactly the kind of empty rhetoric that has characterised Governments\u2019 failed responses to the harms related to drugs. It is the kind of empty rhetoric that has characterised the war on drugs, which has clearly been waged for a very long time, as Paul Hutchison reminded the House, and has failed. It is not only failing; it has failed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EWhat we need is not the kind of rhetoric that Peter Dunne espouses in the House. What we need is goodwill, good faith, a preparedness to listen to each other, and a preparedness to set aside preconceived ideas of how we go about solving this problem. We need, instead, to make a commitment to work with each other and to think about constructive and novel approaches that will actually reflect the reality of drugs in New Zealand. That is exactly what the Law Commission\u2019s report provided us with the opportunity to do. I cannot believe, in the time that was available to draft this bill, that we could not instead have translated the Law Commission\u2019s recommendations in relation to utensils, pseudoephedrine, and synthetic cannabinoids into law. Then we would have had a bill that we would all be voting for, and that would have achieved some good. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8317ccb546d4b21b8056c0584a5d8d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8317ccb546d4b21b8056c0584a5d8d5\u0022\u003ETE URUROA FLAVELL (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker Robertson. Ka nui te mihi ki a koe i t\u0113nei ahiahi. Ko taku k\u014Drero, he k\u014Drero i te reo M\u0101ori ki te whakam\u0101rama i te \u0101huatanga o te hiahia o te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori ki t\u0113nei pire. Tuatahi, me p\u0113nei rawa te k\u014Drero, kua rongo au i te k\u014Drero a taku hoa, a Kevin Hague i a ia e k\u014Drero ana m\u014D t\u014Dna \u0101wangawanga, m\u014D te mataku i te mea kua taka katoa te mana k\u014Drero m\u014D t\u0113nei pire ki roto i te tangata kotahi. In\u0101 k\u0113 te p\u0101nui o t\u014Dna mana ki te whakatau i ng\u0101 huarahi hei wh\u0101inga m\u0101 te ture m\u014D ng\u0101 rongo\u0101 pea ki \u0113tahi, m\u014D ng\u0101 taru kino pea ki \u0113tahi. Kei te \u0101hua rongo ake i t\u0113r\u0101 engari k\u014D t\u0101ku, ko t\u0101 te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, he mataku n\u014D m\u0101tau, he \u0101wangawanga n\u014D m\u0101tau m\u014D ng\u0101 kino kua tae mai \u0101-tarutaru nei ki runga i ng\u0101 hapori M\u0101ori. N\u014D reira, koia pea t\u0113tahi t\u012Bmatanga k\u014Drero hai whakatau i te \u0101huatanga o t\u0113nei pire i te ahiahi nei, ar\u0101, te Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EI ng\u0101 rima tau kua hipa, i puta te k\u014Drero rangahau o te New Zealand Alcohol and Drug Use Survey m\u014D t\u0113nei mea m\u014D te kai tarutaru. Me p\u0113nei rawa te whakamar\u0101ma ake. Kotahi nei o ia tokowh\u0101 \u0101-M\u0101ori nei i te tau kua hipa, kua kai i te taru kino. Kotahi o ia tokowh\u0101 \u0101-M\u0101ori nei kua kai i te taru kino. M\u014D te motu wh\u0101nui tonu o Aotearoa, ko te kotahi o ia tokowhitu. Ko te kotahi o ia tokowhitu. I te p\u0113r\u0101 te kino o te kaute m\u014D te hunga i raro i te 14 te pakeke m\u014D te hunga i kai tuatahi i te tarutaru. N\u014D reira, n\u0101 runga i \u0113nei tatauranga kai mua i a t\u0101tau, ka taea te kite i te noho \u0101-raruraru nei o te Ao M\u0101ori n\u0101 \u0113nei tarutaru kino. \u0112hara i te mea, ko ng\u0101 pap\u0101tanga o n\u0101ia tonu nei te raru \u0113ngari, ko ng\u0101 wh\u0101inga mai \u0101muri ake, ar\u0101, ko te kore haere ki te kura, ko te kore eke \u0101-m\u0101tauranga nei, ko ng\u0101 raruraru \u0101-wairua o te tangata. N\u0101, ko te pai o t\u0113nei pire, he t\u014D mai i ng\u0101 tarutaru p\u0113nei i te Kronic me t\u014Dna momo i ng\u0101 toa o te motu m\u014D ng\u0101 12 marama, m\u014D te kotahi tau. Me k\u012B, kua r\u0101huitia-m\u014D-te-w\u0101 kia taea ai te \u0101ta titiro ki ng\u0101 p\u0101nga o te tarutaru nei ki te tangata. T\u0113r\u0101 pea, ka whakakorengia m\u014D ake nei, ko wai ka hua, ko wai ka totohu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EKua tautoko te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i t\u0113nei pire mai i t\u014Dna taenga mai ki roto i te Whare nei. Kei te kite t\u0101tau katoa i te kino kua puta ki ng\u0101 wh\u0101nau n\u0101 te kino o ng\u0101 kai tarutaru. Kai te m\u014Dhio tonu t\u0101tau, ko te kino ki a ng\u0101i M\u0101ori n\u0101 te kai tarutaru, kai tupeka, inu waipiro. N\u0101, p\u0113nei i te \u0101hua o te tupeka, ki te hikareti r\u0101nei, p\u0113nei te t\u016B o te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori m\u014D te waipiro. Koir\u0101 te k\u014Drero, me whakaiti i ng\u0101 kino n\u0101 te kai o \u0113nei momo kai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAhakoa kei te tautoko te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i t\u0113nei pire me te poto o te r\u0101hui nei, ka kaha tonu m\u0101tou ki te \u0101ki i ng\u0101 take rongo\u0101, ng\u0101 kaupapa \u0101rai ki t\u0101 te Ao M\u0101ori titiro, ki t\u014D te Ao M\u0101ori whakaaro. Ko t\u0101 m\u0101tau, k\u0101ore ng\u0101 wh\u0101inga e h\u0101ngai tonu ana ki te katoa i te eke ki te w\u0101hi e tika ana m\u014D te Ao M\u0101ori. Ki a m\u0101tou m\u014D ng\u0101 raruraru e puta mai ana i roto i ng\u0101 hapori M\u0101ori, he pai ake m\u0113n\u0101 ka riro m\u0101 te Ao M\u0101ori t\u014Dna whare e hanga, e whakatika, e whakahaere m\u014D te Ao M\u0101ori. Kai te p\u0113r\u0101 te titiro ki ng\u0101 huarahi katoa, me k\u012B, mai i te tokonga o ng\u0101 take hauora ki te \u0101huatanga o te whakatika \u0101-tinana tae atu ki ng\u0101 mahi maimoatanga, whakaora r\u0101nei. N\u0101, kai te k\u014Drero au m\u014D ng\u0101 tari whakaora, ng\u0101 akoranga rongo\u0101, ng\u0101 rata, ng\u0101 t\u0101kuta r\u0101nei, ng\u0101 kaupapa whakaora me ng\u0101 huarahi katoa e w\u0101tea ana ki te Ao M\u0101ori. E p\u0113nei ana taku k\u012B in\u0101 tata nei, ko ng\u0101 kaupapa M\u0101ori \u0101-hauora nei e whakatinanahia ana e te Ao M\u0101ori mai i ng\u0101 whakaaro me te tirohanga o te ao m\u014D t\u014Dna hauora, m\u014D t\u014Dna oranga. Me kaha tautoko te K\u0101wanatanga i ng\u0101 M\u0101ori e mahi nei i roto i \u0113nei mahi i waenganui i te wh\u0101nau an\u014D hoki. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EHei kupu whakamutunga, kia kite mai ai ko te p\u0101nga o te Kronic in\u0101 tata nei, i p\u0101tai m\u0101tou i \u0113tahi o t\u0113tahi hapori i Te Ika-a-M\u0101ui nei, i Te Puku o te Whenua, m\u014D t\u014D r\u0101tou m\u014Dhio m\u014D te new and unregulated psychoactive substances. I te tino ohorere m\u0101tou ki te rongo i a r\u0101tou e mea ana, he nui noa ake te hokohoko o te Kronic ki t\u0113r\u0101 o te par\u0101oa me te miraka, me te hikareti katoa. M\u0113n\u0101 ka kohikohia ng\u0101 hikareti, ng\u0101 miraka, ng\u0101 par\u0101oa ki roto i te p\u0113ke kotahi, nui noa atu te hokohoko o te Kronic ki t\u0113r\u0101 o \u0113nei mea katoa. Koinei te uauatanga o te take nei. Koin\u0101 te kino o te take nei. K\u0101ore e kore, ka p\u0101kinotia \u0113tahi toa, hoi an\u014D, m\u0113n\u0101 ka ora \u0113tahi, ka ora te hauora o te wh\u0101nau, me tautoko ka t\u012Bka. Koinei m\u0101tou e tautoko nei i t\u0113nei pire i t\u0113nei p\u0101nuitanga whakamutunga. Kia ora t\u0101tau e te Whare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker Robertson. I commend you highly this afternoon. In my address in M\u0101ori I would like to explain what the M\u0101ori Party expects of this Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill. But first, I hear what my colleague Kevin Hague is saying, as he talks about his concern and fear because the authority in this bill falls completely upon one individual who has wide authority and powers to determine methods for the legislation to pursue in the case of drugs for some and cannabis for others. I can sense that somewhat, but for me, we of the M\u0101ori Party are concerned and fear the harmful effects that the arrival of cannabis has had upon M\u0101ori communities. And that perhaps is a way to start an address this afternoon on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EFive years ago the New Zealand Alcohol and Drug Use Survey released some information about the use of cannabis. Let me describe it this way. One in four of each M\u0101ori in the past year had used cannabis\u2014one in four M\u0101ori. For New Zealand in general it was one in seven\u2014one in seven. That is how bad the figures were for M\u0101ori aged 14 years or younger trying cannabis for the first time. So with these figures in front of us, we are able to see how high the risk is for M\u0101ori affected by these substances. Of course it is not just the immediate impact that poses a problem, but the after-effects that arise, such as truancy, poor academic performance, and personal behavioural problems. This bill has an advantage in that it will remove substances like Kronic, and other cannabis products like it, from shops nationwide for 12 months\u2014for a year. Let us say that it is a time-limited ban that will give sufficient space to investigate offending substances harmful to a person. Perhaps there will come a time when they are banned for ever. Who will benefit, and who will go under? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party has supported this bill right throughout its progress in this House. We can all see the ill effects to families caused by the use of drugs. We know for a fact that M\u0101ori suffer disproportionate harm through the use of drugs, tobacco, and consuming alcohol. Now, just like our stance on tobacco or cigarettes, the M\u0101ori Party sees alcohol in the same way. We will do anything possible to reduce harmful effects as a consequence of taking or consuming these kinds of products. End of story. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003EAlthough the Party M\u0101ori supports this bill and its short ban, we will continue to advocate drug treatment and prevention programmes based on M\u0101ori perspectives and outlook. We believe that strategies designed for the general population have not reached levels that are right for M\u0101ori. We think that drug problems in Maori communities are addressed more effectively if M\u0101ori are left to construct, rectify, and conduct their own institutions for M\u0101ori. That approach is for all procedures, as, for instance, in the promotion of health matters, early intervention, and treatment or recovery. I am talking about detoxification services, drug education programmes, doctors or clinicians, rehabilitation regimes of every kind, being accessible by M\u0101ori. As I said a moment ago, it includes M\u0101ori-based health services established and implemented by M\u0101ori from within a framework of M\u0101ori concepts and perspectives about health and well-being. The Government must support M\u0101ori people as well who work in these services among families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ec266512-9fe8-47da-883e-48f046ee5059\u0022\u003ETo close this address, I say that to find out about the impact of Kronic we recently asked a community in the North Island, in the central North Island, what they knew about the new and unregulated psychoactive substances. We were shocked to hear them say that much more Kronic was sold then bread, milk, and cigarettes put together. If the cigarettes, milk, and bread were gathered up and placed in a single bag, a far greater amount of Kronic was sold then all those things put together. That is the problem with this matter. It is where the real problem is. No doubt some shops will be affected, but nevertheless, if some lives are saved, then family health is better off. The bill has to be supported. We are pleased to support this final reading. Greetings to us, the House.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d08d64bd8bf742e6a561e10bd55f2f0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d08d64bd8bf742e6a561e10bd55f2f0e\u0022\u003EDr JACKIE BLUE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to speak in the third reading of the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill. One of its prime aims is to control amphetamine precursors used in the manufacture of P, or methamphetamine. Specifically I am talking about ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, which will now, with this bill, be classed as class B2. They will no longer be available across the counter, and will be available only on prescription.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f99bcf9e-1ad4-4ed4-9a97-1cccb5b1e11a\u0022\u003EThis complements a suite of Government actions that have been implemented to reduce the harms of P in the community and its impact on our society. I think the move has been very welcome, as has been Supplementary Order Paper 258, which the Associate Minister of Health Peter Dunne brought to the House during the Committee stage. It puts untested psychoactive drugs under a temporary drug order, meaning that they will be banned from the shelves for 12 months while they are tested. This is an interim measure, and the Associate Minister indicated that more permanent, enduring law will be brought to the House next year. I think it is important that we get this law right, and I know that the Associate Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper has been welcomed widely. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u00223e1e5f6ed7bd43a2b577ff5e232ef665\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e1e5f6ed7bd43a2b577ff5e232ef665\u0022\u003EKRIS FAAFOI (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E I begin my contribution to the third reading of the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill by echoing the sentiments of both Iain Lees-Galloway and Grant Robertson, who spoke on the bill before me, and to outline the wider context of where this bill is aimed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI am sure this whole House will speak with one single voice on its opposition to P, methamphetamine, and to the pain and anguish that it causes Kiwi families of those people who have been using it. It is a drug that knows no class or whether a user is rich or poor. It is a drug that knows no culture or whether a user is M\u0101ori, Pacific Islander, Palagi, or any other culture in New Zealand. And it knows no age barrier, either. The biggest tragedy, I guess, is for young Kiwis who find themselves running into methamphetamine. P is a drug that is spreading its tentacles all the way through New Zealand society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAs Grant Robertson said before me, it is with reluctance that we do not give unequivocal support to this bill. We think it fails to take effective action in the Government\u2019s supposed war on P. The chair of the Health Committee, Dr Paul Hutchison, outlined that this was an interim measure against methamphetamine. This Parliament had the opportunity to take enduring measures against methamphetamine. The fact that the main thrust of this bill is to reclassify ephedrine and pseudoephedrine as a class B2 controlled drug is just another example of where we do not think this bill is taking effective action in the war against P. We do submit that this bill will make some difference to the problem of P in our society, but we do not think it will bring about the substantial change that is required if we were to take in good faith the Government\u2019s promise of a war on P and that it is taking effective action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe tighter controls on ephedrine and pseudoephedrine will seriously affect the availability of over-the-counter medicines for those Kiwis who have a simple cold or flu, which Grant Robertson was talking about before. We on this side of the House have a number of issues with that. The first is, again, in the context of the war on P and the effectiveness of that measure against what is a growing problem. It will be a problem in terms of the ability of consumers to access mainstream over-the-counter medicines. It will also be a cost to Kiwis, who may be forced to go to their general practitioner if they want to get the most effective drug that has been available over the counter in previous years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIn terms of the wider context of the war on P, the Prime Minister\u2019s own Chief Science Advisor, Sir Peter Gluckman, said\u2014and I think Paul Hutchison has said in this Chamber\u2014that slightly upwards of 10 percent of the domestic pharmaceutical market in ephedrine and pseudoephedrine is responsible for the ingredients of methamphetamine. If we are waging a war on P, why would we make 10 percent of the problem a priority when somewhere close to 90 percent of the problem is coming in through our border? Mr Hutchison, in a contribution in the Committee stage of this bill, asked members on this side of the House to not ignore or discount the effect that the domestic market has on methamphetamine production. I say to Mr Hutchison that we do not discount it, but we think that if we are going to take effective measures against the production of methamphetamine here in New Zealand, then we have to take real, effective measures against the 90-odd percent of pseudoephedrine and ephedrine that is coming through our borders illegally. Yes, we are seeing sporadic cases of hauls discovered at the border, but we are by no means seeing massive action in relation to the illegal trade of pseudoephedrine that is coming in through the borders. I guess that is another case where we are talking in the debate about the effectiveness of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI will turn back to the Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Advisor and his advice to the Health Committee. He looked at two options. The first one he looked at was option three, which was electronic point-of-sale tracking of the purchase of pseudoephedrine and ephedrine. But the option that he preferred at the time was what is within this bill. He also thought there was some debate on its effectiveness, so he called for a 3-year trial of the change that is mooted here for tighter controls on ephedrine and pseudoephedrine. He was concerned about the public inconvenience of such a move and about how effective such a move would be in reducing the level of production of methamphetamine in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThat takes me to another point, which is just how much harder it will be to get drugs containing pseudoephedrine and ephedrine that have been available over the counter for a long time. It has been just a simple case whereby a person with a relatively serious flu or cold can go to the pharmacy and get some of those drugs over the counter. After this bill passes, New Zealanders who want the most effective drug will be forced to go to a doctor to get a prescription. There are some issues on that, but I do not think enough research has been done by the Ministry of Health on what the cost of that will be for Kiwis, whether it will be a barrier for their getting effective medical treatment for just a simple cold or flu, and also what effect that will have on the workload of our general practitioners. Our general practitioners may have an influx of people with very simple, humdrum colds and flus, who have to book an appointment with a doctor for something that they have traditionally just gone to see their local pharmacist about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI will now turn to clause 4, which deals with the ban of the sale and importation of drug utensils. We looked to have this clause omitted from the bill under Supplementary Order Paper 260, introduced by Iain Lees-Galloway. This was unsuccessful. We think that the Government, again, has taken another step that will be ineffective in terms of its war on drugs. There were quite a number of submissions on clause 4 during the select committee process, and it is our understanding that quite a lot of that evidence gave truth to the argument that removing the sale and importation of utensils would actually cause more harm to those who use the drug. We do not agree that they should be used, but the fact is that the filters within those utensils put a barrier between those who are smoking drugs and the drug. That has some positive health effects for those who choose to use utensils. It is a shame that clause 4 stayed within the purview of the bill. We believe that it should have been removed from the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI will move to the measure that was introduced this week, and that was the temporary banning of synthetic cannabis. The way this measure was introduced shows a lack of a real plan from the Government in terms of its war or drugs and its war on P. The way that this was introduced was that although the Associate Minister of Health Peter Dunne for some months was pretty opposed to the banning of synthetic cannabis, his public statements varied. On 30 March he said, in respect of the banning of the limited sale and advertising of synthetic cannabis, \u201CI have instructed the Ministry of Health to begin the process of putting the necessary controls in place. I expect these changes to come into effect next year.\u201D On 3 June, in respect of why he had not banned synthetic cannabis products, there was another line from the Associate Minister of Health Peter Dunne. He said that the evidence was not strong enough to go as far as that, and that he did not want to go down that path. Then about 3 weeks ago, speaking about why the Law Commission recommendations to make suppliers prove that the safety of synthetic cannabis could not be introduced until after the election, he said: \u201CWe\u2019re under certain statutory requirements and we have the complications of a general election occurring \u2026\u201D. So he was pretty reluctant up until 17 June to take any real, effective action against synthetic cannabis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EBut all of a sudden this week we see a bit of sniffing of the public sentiment, the public urgency, on wanting to take action\u2014mostly from parents who are worried about their children getting free access to synthetic cannabis. On 1 August, after these very timid public statements about synthetic cannabis, the Associate Minister of Health Peter Dunne said that, frankly, he felt he could not wait and that he wanted to make sure there was a mechanism that simply removed these items from the shelves\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219ec92be6b874b459d0eb3539775d724\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. His time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u002296cd4ccc5cdc44be84020e7d8bb18ed9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296cd4ccc5cdc44be84020e7d8bb18ed9\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to support the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill at its third reading. It covers some serious issues that we need to address in order to increase the effectiveness of the control of drugs in New Zealand\u2014in particular, to manage the ingredients for the manufacture of methamphetamine, P, and to ban unregulated psychoactive substances such as Kronic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EIn order to starve local P labs of the ingredients for manufacturing P, this bill reclassifies ephedrine and pseudoephedrine as class B controlled drugs so that cold and flu medicines that contain these substances will no longer be available over the counter. However, if those medicines are needed by patients, they can be acquired by prescription. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI was interested to hear Kris Faafoi talking about the inconvenience of this. We went by Sir Peter Gluckman\u2019s recommendation that there are plenty of alternative medicines that can fill this gap, and we feel that the public are prepared to take that little bit of inconvenience for the good of the whole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI would also like to commend the Associate Minister of Heath Peter Dunne for his Supplementary Order Paper 258. It is an effective stopgap measure to control psychoactive substances such as Kronic, which is a synthetic cannabis product. The Government is not prepared to allow these potentially lethal products to be freely available to young people, so it has moved swiftly to ban these substances. This could happen as early as the end of next week. More permanent legislation will follow next year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI believe that this bill will have a significant impact on drug use in New Zealand, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022f334ef7c68dd4c4c9bf3c0e3a0be62fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f334ef7c68dd4c4c9bf3c0e3a0be62fe\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is great to speak on the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill. My colleague the Hon Rick Barker just asked how good I was on drugs, as if that was a qualification to speak on this. Well, I can confess that I am addicted to caffeine, I have used nicotine, and I am an irregular user of alcohol\u2014but none of the other substances that we are trying to reduce the harm from today. But it is, I think, pertinent to remind ourselves that we are all in some way dependent upon drugs. Most of us, hopefully, use them sensibly, but we are trying, through the passage of this bill\u2014and Labour supports the bill\u2014to reduce harm from drug abuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWe have heard lots of wonderful words and rhetoric in the House about what we are trying to achieve here, and I spoke earlier on in this debate, in the Committee stage, to try to bring things into balance. There is the immediate assumption that in trying to reduce harm from drugs, we are trying to protect young people from themselves. That is a very noble gesture for this House, but the reality is that young people are smarter, know more, and probably see the future in a different light from most of us here. So our attempts\u2014and there have been many over the years\u2014to regulate drugs have been futile, for the most part. That is not to say that Parliament should not make a judgment, set a line in the sand, and attempt to reduce harm. But it should do that in a way that is effective, not in a way that just satisfies our conscience or appeases the relatively uninformed public who make quick judgments on things like P. P is a horrific drug that has terrible side effects, and direct effects on both the users and their families, and on communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EBut when it comes to synthetic cannabinoids we are not quite sure what the manufacturers might come up with next, so the bill is an attempt to stay ahead of the innovation, the evolution, and the creativity of drug manufacturers. Many of them try to connect with youth, because they see an obvious market there. For the most part, manufacturers are just commercial entrepreneurs who see an opportunity and get out and sell their wares, often with little or no regard for the effects of that. We have seen it before, through what we call party pills. We saw harm, and we changed legislation; we had to change the law of the land to try to stay ahead of that problem. Again, we are trying now to regulate, I guess, the precursors to other drugs. More recently, of course, a synthetic cannabinoid\u2014I will not use the brand name\u2014has come on to the market, and we hear that it is causing an adverse effect on many young people who use it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe point I have to make again is that there is before the Government a Law Commission report on alcohol, which has been sitting around for too long. The Government does not want to tackle it because it is an election year, so it has parked it. The harms that we know occur every day, every week, and every year, in terms of road deaths, road injuries, child abuse, domestic violence, and cirrhosis\u2014you name it\u2014have many, many clearly researched, identified, and well-known downsides in relation to the abuse of alcohol. This is not about the sensible use but the abuse of alcohol, and there are people who, of course, become dependent. But in my view we have been totally unprepared, under-resourced, and uncommitted to addressing the problems of treatment for those people who need it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EComing back to the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill I have to say that dependency, whether habitual or physiological\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b218be344ffb4acbbcf9275d9b3cda3e\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: Addictive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d666259ecfa6401985edf721d91c4952\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or addictive\u2014means that in all ways people\u2019s lives are affected, and we have to put in place treatment programmes. In my view the industries themselves, particularly in relation to alcohol and tobacco, should be levied, and should be paying for the treatment programmes we need up and down this country. We have not gone so far as to do that, and the commission, I think, has been a little vague in that area. The commission has made a lot of recommendations, but this Government has sat on its hands and refused to do anything about them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ESo, in supporting the passage of this legislation, let us not get over-excited. Let us not praise the Government for its wonderful stance in reducing harm from drugs, when it is dealing, in relative terms, with a small issue. It is quite an acute issue for many people, but it is a small one compared with the underlying issues of alcohol and tobacco. I acknowledge\u2014I do not like doing this\u2014the Government\u2019s efforts in relation to tobacco. In fact, it hiked the price. It is looking, it says, at displays at point of sale, and I applaud that. We need to make progress on that because, again, we know the harms from tobacco. We know the harms from alcohol, but the Government is doing nothing. We know the harms from P, from other class B2 controlled drugs, and from class A drugs, and we are attempting, with the passage of this legislation, to stay ahead of those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI think the provisions the Minister has come up with are a good way forward. They do not ban outright but lead to control. Then of course there is prosecution for manufacture or supply of something we know to be harmful. It is no good passing bills in this House that do not have widespread support and cannot have sensible implementation. We simply run into the problem of the implementation creating a whole lot of illegal activity and giving another huge challenge for the police. We ultimately need better education. We need to say to consumers and potential consumers that if they might be considering consuming\u2014be it smoking, drinking, sniffing, or whatever\u2014they need to know exactly what they would be taking on board their bodies, and what the potential harms might be from that. So better education and better identification of all the ingredients are really important, and I think this bill goes down that path. The Minister will have discretion to intervene; that is always a dangerous thing when we have a National Government in place. I am not quite sure what drives its decision making at times, but although giving discretion to a Minister gives flexibility, it also depends on the wisdom of the Minister and the advice given to him or her. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EAgain, the passage of the legislation is our best attempt at this point to move forward on this issue, but let us not get too excited and think we have reduced harm from drugs in this country when the big elephant in the room has yet to be addressed. I say that there are hundreds and thousands of people around the country who are disappointed that alcohol has not been moved on before now. So it is with some enthusiasm that I support this bill, but again make the note in this House that I do not feel this is a significant step forward. It is a step sideways. It is a new attempt to address a problem. But I know that we will be back in the House in a short time, I am sure, trying to address some other smart thing that has been created out in the market place. If we have a Government that is committed ideologically to the market providing the signals and the answers, then we will be in trouble. I support the passage of this legislation and note that we need to see a bit more in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u002204f6a708806f49ccad2b7538007aff1a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204f6a708806f49ccad2b7538007aff1a\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National\u2014West Coast - Tasman):\u003C/span\u003E I follow on from the member opposite, Damien O\u2019Connor, and can make a claim to the same limited personal experience of the abuse of drugs other than cigarettes and alcohol. Sure, we have been discussing and debating those at length, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe National-led Government is creating a temporary class of drug orders to take these particular drugs and other synthetic cannabis products off the market by the middle of August. The temporary class drug orders are an interim measure. During a 12-month ban a committee will assess the risk of harm of a substance and recommend whether it should be classified as a controlled drug, scheduled as a restricted substance, or remain unregulated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EFrom the date on which a temporary class drug order comes into force, the import, export, manufacture, supply, and sale of the substance will be illegal. This will be of huge inconvenience to a group of people whom I have just heard described as commercial entrepreneurs. I think that is gracing them with a title they do not deserve. The people who are involved in selling this stuff are predators and they are predating on our children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EI sense almost a reluctance on the other side of the House, which I am sorry to hear, that this bill would prove to be a nuisance to the manufacturers and result in their being more inventive, rather than honest. Honesty is not a given with people who deal in this sort of business. Before I have an ounce of sympathy for this particular group of mercenary traders, I feel one should realise the misery they create amongst individual lives, families, and whole communities in their selfish pursuit of profit, because that is their only interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThese traders are, in my mind, a parasitic group of people. Their business is to engage people, not through a satisfactory service but through addiction. This is a quality of tobacco manufacturers and it has been so criticised by this House recently, and we should apply equal contempt towards the people who are pushing these other substances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003ELet me close with a slightly cynical memory of a Tom Lehrer song, \u201CThe Old Dope Peddler\u201D. There is a beautiful chorus, which goes:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EHe gives the kids free samples,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EBecause he knows full well\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EToday\u2019s young innocent faces\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EWill be tomorrow\u2019s clientele.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThese predators are preying on our children. Every move we can make to disrupt their commercial activities should be taken, and they deserve no consideration in the debate whatsoever. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022 data-id=\u0022e318fcf4b7dc4f928a9631ce317e7e5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e318fcf4b7dc4f928a9631ce317e7e5c\u0022\u003ECAROL BEAUMONT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in the third reading of the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill and to say, as my colleague Damien O\u2019Connor did, that Labour supports this bill but has a number of concerns about it. The bill itself will amend the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975 to reclassify ephedrine and pseudoephedrine as class B2 controlled drugs, remove thalidomide as a class A controlled drug, allow hazardous substances to be scheduled as restricted substances\u2014and I will come back to that\u2014and extend control over drug paraphernalia. Although Labour supports the bill, we remain concerned that the bill as written would not achieve the aim of reducing the availability of methamphetamine, P, or reducing drug-related harm. Certainly the Government has taken a long time to get to the point of implementing this legislation, given that John Key announced in October 2009, I believe, an Action Plan on Methamphetamine, with five prongs. I understand this bill to be prong No. 1. Here we are, nearly at the election, and we are on prong No. 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EThe other issue, of course, is dealing with the ban on synthetic cannabis. This again is another instance where the Government has dithered on an issue. Associate Minister of Health Peter Dunne has talked tough about cleaning up the synthetic cannabis industry, and it has largely been hot air. He dithered on this ban, despite recommendations from the Law Commission and calls for action from the public and from sector groups. Labour raised the issue with Mr Dunne 6 months ago, and at the time even provided him with examples of this legal high, this synthetic cannabis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EMr Dunne has made a number of comments since that time. On 30 March he said: \u201CI have instructed the Ministry of Health to begin the process of putting the necessary controls in place. I expect these changes to come into effect next year.\u201D On 3 June, on why he had not banned synthetic cannabis, he said: \u201CThe evidence wasn\u2019t strong enough to go that far, and I didn\u2019t want to go down that path and then be challenged in court and overturned. Because you end up looking a bit silly at that point.\u201D Well, here we are, probably looking a bit silly in August. On 17 June, on why the Law Commission recommendation to make suppliers prove the safety of synthetic cannabis could not be introduced until after the election, he said: \u201CWe\u2019re under certain statutory requirements and we have the complications of a general election occurring.\u201D On 1 August, more recently, he said: \u201CI felt we couldn\u2019t wait \u2026 I wanted to make sure we had a mechanism that simply removes these items from the shelves completely.\u201D In the course of those few months we have seen all sorts of variations on the theme from the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EOf course, we now have in Part 1 new clauses 3A and 3B, providing for the temporary class drug notice. This amendment will place a 12-month ban on the sale of all synthetic cannabis products and other new drugs, to allow enough time for the Minister to obtain the necessary advice on the appropriate classification for these drugs. Labour supports that. This amendment provides that the Minister will publish a notice in the Gazette specifying as a temporary class drug a substance, preparation, mixture, or article that is not a class A, class B, or class C - controlled drug, a restricted substance, or a precursor substance, but that the Minister is satisfied poses or may pose a risk of harm to individuals or to society. That will mean that the temporary class drug will be treated for most of the purposes of the Act as a class C1 controlled drug, except as specified. The temporary class drug will not be added to any of the schedules of the Act while the notice is in force. While that temporary class drug notice is in force, the Minister must seek advice as to its appropriate classification. A 12-month period will provide an opportunity for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EAs I said, Labour welcomes the decision to place that 12-month ban on synthetic cannabis products and other new drugs\u2014as Mr O\u2019Connor said, there will undoubtedly be other drugs that come through\u2014until there is more sustainable regulation of new substances. But we are concerned that the Government has taken too long to do this. Despite all the public protestations by Peter Dunne that the Government takes this issue particularly seriously, it has dithered on it since last year. For example, this bill has been buried on the Order Paper since November last year. In addition, the Government has done little in response to the Law Commission\u2019s report, which was tabled in May of this year. So the Government\u2019s so-called stronger additional amendments to current drug legislation will simply continue the decades-old ad hoc approach to drug abuse and control in New Zealand. We have been pushing for the Government to implement these stopgap measures so that no more harm is caused to individuals until the Ministry of Health has had time to research the effect of the drugs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI will talk about the response to harm, because it worries me. Mr O\u2019Connor alluded to the issue of alcohol harm. I am on the Justice and Electoral Committee, which is dealing with the Alcohol Reform Bill. We have the research base on this issue; there is no doubt about that. Fantastic work has been done by the Law Commission on alcohol and the issue of harm. I want to compare it with the response to the synthetic cannabis issue and also the P issue. Really, if we are looking at priorities, we have to say that the alcohol issue is the priority in terms of drug harm. Certainly, in comparison with all other forms of drugs, including P, synthetic cannabis, and whatever else one likes, alcohol is really significant because of the scale of the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EAlso, unlike every other drug\u2014we saw research in the select committee that compared all of the other drugs with alcohol\u2014the interesting difference with alcohol is this: for most drugs, the harm is to the individual. For the individual using P\u2014certainly, I will come back to P\u2014or the individual using synthetic cannabis, the harm is predominantly to the individual. In the case of alcohol, more harm is actually done to other people. When we look at the harm caused by alcohol, we see that yes, there is harm caused to the individual\u2014there is no question about that. Mr O\u2019Connor went through some of the issues of addiction: cirrhosis, other health issues\u2014cancers, mental health issues; you name it. But, the harm to others is what is really significant with regard to the issue of alcohol: the harm to people subjected to violence by those who are drunk; the harm to people who are driving cars. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EAlcohol has some similarities, I admit, with P, which is subject to the provisions of this bill. But I am very concerned that we have taken too long in dithering around on this bill, and we are taking far too long in dithering around on the alcohol issue. As it stands, sadly, it looks likely that there will not be new legislation in place before the election. We will have a watered-down bill in response to the Law Commission\u2019s report on alcohol and a first reading on that. I wanted to make that comparison. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EI come back to this bill specifically, which the Deputy Speaker suggests that I do. I will talk about the issue of the importation and supply of drug utensils, which is in clause 4 of this bill. Clause 4 broadens the scope of section 22 of the Act by prohibiting the sale, importation, and supply of drug utensils, including pipes, other utensils, and identifiable components of a pipe or other utensil. The broadening of the scope of section 22 will mean the police will more effectively be able to deter the sale of drug utensils by removing the limitation that an offence occurs once a sale has been made\u2014in other words, if someone buys a pipe and then does something with it, that is an offence. The police also understand that this amendment will remove the difficulties that the Customs Service has with restricting the importation of incomplete drug utensils and identifiable parts. Making it an offence to sell, supply, and import utensils would assist, so that is the purpose of this clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223facbb72-b3b0-464b-b24d-e6de0616f323\u0022\u003EWe are aware that the Health Committee received no evidence\u2014I repeat, no evidence\u2014whatsoever that the changes in this clause would bring about a reduction in drug use, which one would think is the important factor here. Fifty-nine of the 65 submitters opposed the proposed amendment to the utensils provisions. Many submitters stated that the utensils provisions may prove to be a minor inconvenience to those who import and sell utensils, but that they are likely to respond with small changes of behaviour in order to evade the law. I will leave it there, as that seems to be a relatively less useful part of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bb2c6ffb335344819abc10bc2164b869\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 104\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; New Zealand Labour 42; M\u0101ori Party 3; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 14\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 9; ACT New Zealand 4; Independent: Carter C.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000378\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 104, Noes 15.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222b7c7cf1ae564f40b7692423709018cf\u0022\u003EMember Vacancy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a7356f0955d04d4289cf86af0feea608\u0022\u003ENorthland Electoral District\u2014Hon John Carter\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u002209cbebfec3484ec89f67d936b5cfa93c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209cbebfec3484ec89f67d936b5cfa93c\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Acting Leader of the House: I move, That pursuant to section 131(a) of the Electoral Act 1993, a vacancy in the Northland Electoral District having arisen in the period of six months prior to the date of the expiration of this Parliament, no writ be issued for the election of a member of Parliament for that Electoral District to supply the vacancy occasioned by the resignation of John McGregor Carter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe Hon John Carter resigned his parliamentary seat on 17 July 2011, creating a vacancy in his Northland electorate seat. Section 131 of the Electoral Act 1993 provides that no writ shall be issued for a by-election if a general election is to be held within 6 months of the occurrence of the vacancy, and a resolution is passed by a majority of 75 percent of all the members of the House of Representatives to the effect that a writ is not to be issued to supply the vacancy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00227213471790a3495c9c6c9f44cbd246e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227213471790a3495c9c6c9f44cbd246e3\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Party is supporting this motion. In fact, if we were not, the motion would not have been moved and certainly would not be effective if it passed, vis-\u00E0-vis section 131 of the Electoral Act. I think it is appropriate. It is an unusual situation to be in, to follow a member\u2019s valedictory, but I think \u201CHone\u201D Carter had one of those valedictories of the type where many members of the House would have preferred him to go on a bit longer. It was entertaining. It was probably like the member\u2014always entertaining, always caring, and someone who was one of the characters of the House. I tend to say, and it might be a sign of my own ageing, that they seem to be fewer and farther between, the people who were elected as a result of their good organisation in an electorate, tying up the seat to get the National Party nomination, and then continuing to keep it tied up in a way that meant that over a period of time\u2014notwithstanding a number of perceived, and actual, sins\u2014Mr Carter was able to be totally unchallenged as to his right to represent an area that he built as a National Party stronghold, and one that was not always the safest of National seats. If we look at the demographics of the seat it should not necessarily be so, but, as a result of his character and his work, it became a safe National seat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI was lucky enough to travel with Mr Carter, I think at the beginning of 1994, to the United States. At that stage the then two-thirds owners of Telecom\u2014two US companies\u2014hosted us. I think these days one could not think of many less likely members of Parliament to be the ones seen to be leading the Parliament in technology matters, but the objective was for some members of Parliament to gain a working understanding of technology. I think it is fair to say that I understood from that time about convergence, and it is interesting to see that what was predicted to John Carter and me is beginning to happen now, which is probably close to 15 years after the expectation of when it would occur. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EWe had some interesting conversations. Probably my most interesting conversation with John Carter related to when I had heard him, late one day, talking to John Banks on the radio.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299de213e258a45c7a423eb3dd7ed3f2f\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd943ec55c584a5181ac844304cb428a\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: I make it clear it was not the time when he was found to be offending; it was an earlier occasion. Subsequent to that, we had a discussion, I think at the diplomats and parliamentarians cricket match, when we were both fit and able enough to play. I indicated to him that I had heard him, I had recognised his voice, and I thought that it was unwise for him to have done such a thing. Well, he is a bit like me: slightly stubborn and does not always learn from the first mistake, unless he is told off. There was a repeat performance, the fall-out from which was his fall from grace and resignation as a whip. Probably, more important, I think it led to the interruption, for a period of 15 years, of the career of John Banks, who was not reappointed as a Minister after that, and suffered the even worse fate of not being allowed to travel to South Africa to the Parliamentary Rugby World Cup in 1995. The Rt Hon Jim Bolger\u2014now, of course, Sir James Bolger\u2014forbade him from going, thinking that what were clearly racist comments would not go down well in the new South Africa. I think it is fair to say that it could have caused\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022419a7964116c4f4a9cc0f23d4c9955fa\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Carter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252420f47d6194df3a594f907c5239f15\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: No, Banks\u2019 comments; Banks\u2019 comments were actually worse than Carter\u2019s comments, because there was a suggestion that the thing had been jacked up, and Banks at the time was a Minister and therefore the offence was more serious. As I say, Carter had been warned and he obviously was caught out later on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EBut having said that, one of the important points about John Carter, and the thing that I valued the most, was that he always kept his word. We had a number of arrangements that were made behind the Chair, over a period of time, and John made it clear, when he had made an agreement, when he had indicated that he would have \u201Cbest endeavours\u201D to deliver, he certainly tried very hard, and he was always very thorough in that when there was a problem with what he was endeavouring to do, he would come back, he would indicate and there was clarity in the situation. I think that was a good sign of his integrity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI think John Carter has a good job in going to Rarotonga. I think there is a bit of a practice\u2014though not normally for electorate MPs, and I will refer to that soon\u2014of members of Parliament taking up diplomatic postings. Of course, he follows in the footsteps of the late Brian Donnelly in being the member of Parliament appointed to go to Avarua. I think it is fair to say that a number of us, on occasion, have indicated that such an approach would not be the worst possible thing. I had five words that I think I said to Helen Clark two or three times while she was Prime Minister when I was in her bad books, and they were \u201CPort Vila, Hanoi, New York.\u201D For some reason she did not value my diplomatic skills in quite the way that would lead her to think it might be better for me to be appointed a diplomat, rather than continuing my endeavours in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9d3ee10e34f4e28b768f9e38f7f9452\u0022\u003ELouise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: I wonder why, Trevor. I wonder why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f0fb7ff8ff3421aac811a557879963a\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I have always respected her judgment. Under MMP, I signal\u2014not now, and probably not even as part of the next review, but at some stage\u2014that it would be worth looking at having a system whereby we do not have to go to a by-election when we have this sort of arrangement, even if it is prior to the 6-month period before an election. A number of mature democracies are able, when they have this sort of system, to have people who are effectively deputy electorate members\u2014people who, when a member of Parliament becomes a Minister, step in and effectively become an electorate member or effectively become a list member. There is a reversal of roles, which means that the Minister is freed up from doing the work in the electorate. It is taken over by someone else, but with the proviso\u2014I think in all cases\u2014that that reversal can be worked backwards again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EI wonder whether at some stage we need to look at the possibility of another member stepping into the electorate seat role. I think, because we do not generally affect the proportionality of Parliament\u2014we are much more party-based\u2014that it is something worth looking at. But I think we are having a little bit of trouble at the moment getting universal acceptance of the role of the list MP and the way that things work, and we might not be quite at the point where we could convince the public that that sort of system should be developed. I think that would raise the possibility of another list MP coming to Parliament, replacing the person who transfers over, keeping the proportionality in Parliament, and thereby saving millions of dollars in some cases in by-elections. I actually quite enjoy by-elections, but all of us know they will not make any difference to the eventual decisions that go through this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003ELabour supports this motion, and we wish John Carter well, but I hope that at some future stage we do not have to pass similar motions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u002250143f6eb2c142dd92ad897e34aaea4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250143f6eb2c142dd92ad897e34aaea4f\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This is an unusual event. Normally it is impossible to say things about a member of Parliament who has resigned their position. Normally the valedictory is said and that is it, but I have been given the rare opportunity to talk about\u2014I have just learnt his full name\u2014John McGregor Carter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI have known John for quite some time and would like to make a few comments about him, but before I do so I make the observation that this circumstance we are in here is very unusual. I have been here since 1993, and I can recall this situation happening only once before, and that was with the resignation of Michael Laws in the Hawke\u2019s Bay seat. Michael Laws got himself into a spot of bother about a signature on a so-called referendum or survey done in his area, and he thought the only honourable thing for him to do was to resign. At that point there was no election date set. Within a matter of hours the then Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Jim Bolger, announced the election day. As a consequence of that, the House could consider a motion to say that there was no need to have a by-election because it was within 6 months of an election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EIt was a remarkable circumstance to have an election date set so early, and it changed what happened in this House. I was going to undertake some work with the then Minister of Justice, Mr Graham, but when I approached him after the adjournment of the House he said he could not do that work then because we were in an election campaign. The whole thing changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EWe are in a remarkable situation now, because we have an election date set so far out but still the House carries on its work. It has not quite got to the election phase yet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI have worked with John over a long period of time. I put on the record that I found John to be a very good member of Parliament and an honourable member of Parliament. I dealt with John on many occasions as a whip. Those people who have held the position of a whip in this House will realise that there is quite a distinct and different relationship between the whips. One of the roles of the Opposition whip, which was a position I held, was to make the life of the senior Government whip as difficult as possible, and I did the best I could. I plagued him with all sorts of tricks\u2014moving people around, moving motions, and so on\u2014but all through this John kept his sense of humour. John was always very level-headed and simply accepted that this was the way the role was played. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EJohn was always very good to deal with. In my opinion he was a man of integrity. Whenever I had an agreement with John there was never any doubt about the agreement being held to. His word was his bond, and I think this is a fine quality in him for New Zealand when he takes up his position representing New Zealand overseas. I think the people he represents will find him, as I did, to be very trustworthy and very reliable. I have a great deal of respect for the man. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EThat brings me to the point that we now find that the far north has no representative. That is effectively what has happened. It is unrepresented. Some people could exercise some concern about this, but I am not sure that all would be of that opinion. This is no disrespect to John personally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI recount one occasion when that fine institution of this Parliament, the Parliamentary Rugby Team, was invited by John Carter to tour the far north and play some games. We were playing in Kait\u0101ia, and the local team was a team of locals who were very large, strong-looking, farm-type men. Two of them had seen some service in the All Blacks, and they looked a pretty formidable crew, I can tell members that. At one part of the game the ball was kicked up high into the air, and the line of defence for the Parliamentary Rugby Team was John McGregor Carter. A line of forwards was fanned out\u2014a large line of forwards\u2014and they were hunting as a pack. They had one target, and it was the local member of Parliament. The captain of the Parliamentary Rugby Team shouted so all could hear \u201CDon\u2019t kick! Don\u2019t kick! For God\u2019s sake, don\u2019t kick!\u201D, but John was torn between two lines: self-preservation and orders. John chose self-preservation. He put his boot into the ball, it slid off the side of his boot and spiralled away, and this line of four lumpy forwards scooped up the ball, powered over the line, and scored a try. The captain was standing there shaking his head, and then someone from the sideline said \u201CDon\u2019t worry. He doesn\u2019t listen to us either.\u201D There was good humour. I want to say that even though it is politics, people can see the humour in it, and I am sure they said that with affection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EOne thing I will miss from John is his jokes. I do not think I can recount any of them here tonight\u2014partly because it is a family show and partly because I cannot remember them all. Whenever there was a down moment in the House, John would give me a nudge and say something. I would meet him out the back and he would recount his latest list of yarns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EHe was also a person with incredible knowledge of how this place operates. I am sure that in recent times National will have found that John\u2019s advice on tactics and how to operate things in the House has been invaluable. I can think of no other position than when we were discussing the Auckland bill. Once John moved back into the centre stage we thought we have a tough opponent here, and so it proved to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI am sure National will miss John, just as Labour will. We do not always have to agree with people in this House; I do not think that is important. What we have to see, though, is that they make a contribution, and, without a doubt, John made a contribution. It was not always in the debates, but he certainly made a contribution in how the House was structured, how the House was organised, and how it ran. He was very conscious of the principles of this House, its protocol, and its traditions. He was always very supportive of those and made sure that people understood that these were the rules of how the place ran. Yes, there are formal rules and the Standing Orders. Yes, there are Speakers\u2019 rulings. But there are other ways in which people go about their business with integrity and by viewing with due respect each member here as an honourable member, and John was certainly one who upheld that. From that point of view I will miss him, because that collective knowledge is important to how this place runs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EI thought John made a great contribution. Yes, he might have cluttered up the car-park down below with his collection of ancient and semi-ancient vehicles\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ba6737b57f140da859d46cd79200663\u0022\u003EChris Tremain\u003C/span\u003E: There are plenty of parks down there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e61f14c7b9449608c602c63cdc5080f\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: There are plenty of parks now; the parking space has increased. The humour will be gone, just as I miss Mike Moore\u2019s humour around the place. When I talk about Mike Moore and John Carter I think how Mike Moore always used to say when someone was saying good things about him: \u201COops, I must be dead; they\u2019re praising me.\u201D I want to say to John that we are not saying this because we think that about him. We have always thought this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to turn to the last point, which is the issue raised by the Hon Trevor Mallard\u2014that we now have a vacancy in John Carter\u2019s seat and we still have in this House 121 members of Parliament. I do think there is a gap here, and I think we should put our collective minds to how this could be better managed in the future. It could be that the public find it acceptable to have a vacancy for 6 months. I am sure the public in the far north are thankful that we are going to pass this resolution, because the last thing they will want, I am sure, is two elections in 6 months\u2014two occasions when their letterboxes are festooned with newsletters and direct leafleting, there are ads in the paper, hoardings up all around the place, and adverts for votes, driving the public mad. I think their tolerance is for an election once every 3 years; any sooner than that becomes a little less tolerable. So I think the far north public will see this motion as a good thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EOn the downside there is no clearly recognised person to whom they can go as their local representative. Yes, there are list MPs in the area, and, yes, we could look at formalising those things in the future. The Hon Trevor Mallard has made a very good suggestion. I also accept the point he has made that, given that we are looking at our electoral system, this is most probably not the best time to look at such a detail. But it is something we should keep in the back of our minds and think of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003EIn closing, I would just like to say a final thankyou to John for all the contributions he has made here over the years. I want to say thank you to John for all the goodwill he has shown to me, and I want to say thank you to John for the way in which he has conducted his work in this House. I personally found him to be a man of integrity, someone I could do deals with, and someone whose word was his bond. I think that is a very important thing. I never had to ask John for an email or a letter to confirm something. I knew that if John stood there, looked me in the eye, and said what would happen, I could go to the bank and say it would happen. There are not many people one can say that about. I would like to say it about more people, but I can certainly say it about John Carter. I do not think there are many finer tributes one could say to a person than that he always kept his word. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5541c039f99428a9738ae71a065be21\u0022\u003ESue Kedgley\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a3fccc7cbd84a34b87f295b8d7f93f0\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry for the member. The Business Committee allocated only three spots to this debate, so I am sorry the member does not get a call. I say on behalf of all the comments that have been made today that I am sure the former member will be very impressed and encouraged by those comments. It may be fortunate that he does not get a right of reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022796e980e1f2349fa82cc3c2c21c48a1b\u0022\u003EVoting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022afed622f0bc64c058b49cf4d46cd1294\u0022\u003ECorrection\u2014Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022 data-id=\u00225d1e916072fc462bb92d8473e1cbff60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d1e916072fc462bb92d8473e1cbff60\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave of the House to correct a vote on the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef3d57ddaf424f3a8e3b8cf860902294\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You need to seek leave, and what is the leave you are asking for?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a9652f92b2d4d4c91a79142d59c10e4\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to seek leave to alter the ACT vote. I should have voted 4 instead of 5 in opposition to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0879a486f7a4bdeb7342c4d8b2bc90a\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to change the vote for ACT from 4 to 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c1d5df8-ac1d-4ce1-a778-202845cfc69f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245425bf8e87f422399a3b779301dc48b\u0022\u003EHon HEATHER ROY\u003C/span\u003E: I am sorry, the other way round.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c8067ad30534539bbc06c1107ac5bb0\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: From 5 to 4. Leave has been sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection. Now the result of the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill third reading is Ayes 104, Noes 14. The record will be corrected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d294d662edb54060bfdfd61f2f6dac7d\u0022\u003EEstimates Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f853072de3634ff79b901a66cc70e6b3\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000426\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 2 August on the Appropriation (2011/12 Estimates) Bill.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e4353384cb1e491e903e606175a4419e\u0022\u003EVote Health (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5d30b1741154362bdc0533f94a88f3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5d30b1741154362bdc0533f94a88f3b\u0022\u003EDr PAUL HUTCHISON (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E I must say that it was a pleasure listening to the members of the Labour Opposition being so gracious about my colleague the Hon John Carter. It was great to hear the enthusiasm of the Hon Clayton Cosgrove when he heard that I was about to speak on the good news in terms of Vote Health, because, indeed, it is very good news. This year $528 million has been made available; $1.5 billion has been made available since National came into power in 2008. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EBut I want to talk about health promotion and disease prevention, which is something that Labour goes on and on and on about. We have an absolutely incredible record. First of all, I will mention immunisation. Back in 2007 in the order of 76 percent of 2-year-olds were covered. Now that figure has rocketed up to 90 percent. That is an absolutely excellent achievement in the last few years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003ELet us look at the second thing: home insulation. Under the Labour Government something like 2,000 or 3,000 homes were insulated. Under the National Government 100,000 homes have been insulated, which is another great public health achievement. There is no doubt that a whole spectrum of respiratory illnesses is being prevented by this initiative, which has been executed so ably by the National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003ELet us go on to rheumatic fever. This Budget puts $12 million into clinics for children. I think the plan is that something like 22,000 children will be covered in this particular initiative, which was something that the Labour Government talked about as one of its many, many priorities and strategies year after year. But what did National do? We put it into action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThen we go on to smoking. What happened under Labour? There was something like a 10 percent increase in excise tax in 9 years. National has executed a 30 percent increase in excise tax, and we know that this is one of the most effective methods in reducing smoking and all the ill health that is associated with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003ELet us look at the roll-out of before-school checks. There were something like 1,000 or so under the Labour Government. All Labour could do was about 1,000 checks. Under National 100,000 children have had before-school checks, and something in the order of 8,500 children have gone on to have their eyesight corrected or have various other interventions that have helped their eyesight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfdabe42-521a-4dca-afab-3e781731a130\u0022\u003EThere is also the area of maternity. I must say that if ever there was an area of health promotion and disease prevention, it must be the area of maternity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6689b0d6f744813ab3d403b5d4d4e18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6689b0d6f744813ab3d403b5d4d4e18\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E It is great to be able to take a call in the estimates debate on Vote Health. I want to focus on some of the achievements the Minister of Health, Tony Ryall, and his team have made in this area. Health is one of the few Budget portfolio areas, across all the portfolios, where we have actually been able to increase funding. Constituents will be pleased to know that health alone has received $1.5 billion worth of additional funding over a 3-year period, which is absolutely fantastic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThe recessionary environment in which National became the Government was an extremely difficult environment to come into. Many people would have said that the Government needed to cut its cloth to fit the revenue that was coming in the door. Well, we took a very practical approach to this, and there were some key areas within the Government spend\u2014health being one of those and education being another of those key areas\u2014where we continue to spend at and beyond the level we were previously spending. We are investing in the health of our community and in our education. There is nothing surer. It has paid huge dividends, particularly with the six key areas of focus that Tony Ryall has brought in with the new national standards in health. They are absolutely fantastic. In terms of cancer treatment, the Minister has focused each of the district health boards on lifting the bar in terms of cancer treatment. Focusing on that has made a huge difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ETake immunisation. I know that in my own province of Hawke\u2019s Bay, the Hawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board and its immunisation team have lifted the level of child immunisation to levels that we would not have anticipated 2 or 3 years ago. As a team, through the district health nurses, they have done a fantastic job. It is interesting that the Labour Opposition would take time to criticise district health nurses and the work that they do in our communities to immunise young babies and to improve the health and welfare of groups in poverty. I think that work is fantastic, but Labour is concerned about it and that is a worry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EThere have been other standards we have focused on, such as elective surgery. We have lifted the level of elective surgery, despite the difficult times. That has been absolutely fantastic. We have seen accident and emergency waiting times improve throughout district health boards around the country. Cardiovascular services have also improved. A wonderful initiative from the Hawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board has been a nurse-led initiative to allow prescribing of diabetes medicines, which is a wonderful enabler that the Minister of Health, Tony Ryall, has implemented in this term of Government. It is absolutely fantastic. Smoking cessation is another focus we have in this Government, which is absolutely marvellous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EOne of the things I want to focus on in the estimates debate is the more than $500 million being invested in hospital capital projects. I was particularly fortunate to be at the Napier Health Centre on Wellesley Road on Monday, where, as part of that $500 million capital investment, we were able to open a new digital X-ray facility. Absolutely sensational. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d7bb7497a694e0a9cd4166ef81261a2\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: It was Labour who put that money in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290e2fdf5324d4dc3bbdc8eb86faf565e\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: The project started just 3 months ago. I am not sure how that could have been started under the Labour Government if it was started 3 months ago and is being implemented now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003ELet us talk about the Napier Health Centre, which was going to close under Labour. That is what was going to happen under Labour. It was getting to the end of its 10-year lease, and the previous Government was going to close that centre. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d5b393457664a6d903e1f0a87faa46d\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: What rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f015c511d0e4b5cb979e205f515f44b\u0022\u003ECHRIS TREMAIN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if that is rubbish, then what was the protest that I was a part of in the last term of Government? It was to make sure that that facility stayed open for the citizens of Napier, and it has. What is more important is that we have signed a 10-year lease now\u2014in this term of Government; not under a Labour Government\u2014that will ensure the longevity of that service for Napier residents. With this new digital radiology facility, I acknowledge Wietske Cloo, Andrew Lesperance, and Warrick Frater, who have brought about all these new services, and Mandy Robinson, who will head up the new digital service in Hawke\u2019s Bay. This is fantastic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221368ba6c-25be-40f6-a2a0-8f81e1f78b79\u0022\u003EIn particular, I acknowledge the board of the district health board, led by Kevin Atkinson. He has done an amazing job of ensuring that that district health board will be one of the more profitable ones going forward, or that at least it will break even and reach profitability, which will be the first time we have seen that in many, many years. That is absolutely fantastic. Kevin has done an outstanding job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221110e6f07bea433595a8021251cb6c10\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Vote Health be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 65\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 4; M\u0101ori Party 3; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Progressive 1; Independent: Carter C.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EVote Health agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022343ebb4935b64fc48c6b97426207f5e9\u0022\u003EVote State Services agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221f10fdff3e2c42488041fc24756d1495\u0022\u003EVote ACC\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00229630cf3ac8eb462985039545e2c8cdab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229630cf3ac8eb462985039545e2c8cdab\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great pleasure to be standing before the Committee of the whole House for the estimates debate on Vote ACC in far stronger circumstances. In other years in which I have been before the Committee I have had to acknowledge huge, multibillion-dollar losses. I have had to acknowledge that there has been\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d791a084941143afbdf901a2a2eb275a\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: Created.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e238cc5ef894a008ad905ae9f05ba78\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member interjects \u201CCreated.\u201D Righty-o, she needs to explain this point for me. ACC had a loss of $2.4 billion in 2007-08. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b12ee1d0eed144ee97012dfdbb9caaf9\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that\u2019s rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022639fe17929694f3eb9b9fc88a4a7c4ee\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member says it is rubbish. Whose signature is on the annual report showing a $2.4 billion loss? It is that of the Labour Minister of the time, Maryan Street. So for Sue Moroney and Steve Chadwick to say that what I said is not true is to say that Maryan Street signed false accounts. That is what they are asserting, and I think that is a very serious charge, for which they should perhaps go to the Serious Fraud Office. To say that someone signed a set of accounts that was false is a very serious accusation, which they are making against Maryan Street, and I ask them to reflect on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe fact is that ACC claims costs between 2005 and 2008 went up by 50 percent. Claims costs were up by 50 percent. It was out of control. It was financially reckless. The previous Government breached the Public Finance Act. It did not disclose the size of the problems in the pre-election update, and this Government has had a hard job to sort out that mess. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe great news for New Zealand households this year is that we are able to have substantive levy reductions for households and for businesses at a time when they are under real financial pressure. Let me tell members how much it means. It means that workers on the average wage next year will receive a 17 percent reduction in their earners levies, which will put 10 bucks a week into the hands of the average Kiwi household. Ten bucks a week for the average Kiwi household\u2014I think that is a great thing, and I commend the work of the board and the staff of ACC. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EEven better, we are able to reduce business costs. There is a 22 percent reduction in the levies for businesses. The people who have achieved that have to be encouraged and congratulated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d46c78042ce5418f90efdaea2a0cf58a\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: I thought you said it was broke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279b1bcaf8f044d478c7341f89ea6f9b1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly; it was, when we had reckless financial management. Let me tell members how bad it was. When Labour was in charge, ACC lost $4.8 billion in just 1 year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3f1f54d63894c9a9ebc6de915f319f3\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: An investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae7e8aee2a7a4e039011372d10a739c3\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The member interjects \u201Cinvestments\u201D. I am happy to bet her the best bottle of Nelson wine that of that $4.8 billion loss\u2014do members know how much was lost in investments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f76c397c3a8e405dadc05951eaf4e444\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: Zero?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022144b6a2552ce4aecae9b73cbe002a929\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Zero. Not one penny. That is absolutely the truth, and I challenge the member who is interjecting to show me, in those financial accounts from when she was in the Government, what part of that $4.8 billion loss was in investments, because it was not a dollar. It was not a dollar. That is in the accounts audited by the Auditor-General.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5454d271b4b46a0b540bc7d7ac19d89\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. This is all very interesting from the Minister, but I thought we were in the estimates debate, which is about this year, not the term of the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269a552a3d207454fbd1523c0ef83ce18\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is correct, but the Minister in the chair, the Minister for ACC, is responding to interjections. It is rather hard to curtail him when he has been somewhat induced to respond to a series of interjections. If members want him to stay on track, I suggest they curtail the interjections somewhat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022998a1675b4b14f0091b0250777c7aee2\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. With respect, I think if you review the tape you will find that before any interjections occurred the Minister opened his speech by recasting history, rather than dealing with the estimates, then interjections followed after that. The Minister broke the Standing Orders immediately he spoke, and I ask you to bring him back to the estimates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225caaf1d5939b4de1bcb044d7c065da4a\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I think that is also a fair comment, so I would ask the Minister to address the estimates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f6efccd77344fc782b871c5fd97bfd1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: These estimates provide for the ongoing huge improvements in rehabilitation within ACC. If we are to make progress, the real key is to make sure that we get people back to work as quickly as possible. Stunning results are shown by programmes like Better at Work, which are supported in these estimates. Although Labour feels far more comfortable with people sitting on welfare and people sitting on accident compensation, we in the Government want to work on people being able to focus on what they can do. Programmes like Better at Work, which are supported in these estimates, are the way in which we can rightly deliver accident compensation in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThere is a further very important change, and it is welcomed. This year we are introducing experience rating and a no-claims bonus for small businesses. There are 290,000 small businesses right now receiving no-claims bonuses for their improved workplace safety. I think it is a good thing to reward workplaces that have better safety practices and are able to avoid claims. The experience rating is an equally important reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EVote agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226ab61fe9c6be448fb85e405092050546\u0022\u003EVote Climate Change\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u002292242e683090471f9b60d48995e3bc7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292242e683090471f9b60d48995e3bc7c\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to take this opportunity to speak in the estimates debate on Vote Climate Change. It is well understood that climate change is one of the most difficult issues for Governments today, so it is to the enormous credit of the Minister for Climate Change Issues, the Hon Dr Nick Smith, that New Zealand\u2019s modified emissions trading scheme has been introduced so smoothly, and that in a relatively short time it has so effectively changed investment patterns in our economy. New Zealand introduced its emissions trading scheme because it is the lowest-cost way to reduce our emissions on greenhouse gases. As an environmentally aware country with a \u201Cclean, green\u201D brand, we need to be serious about reducing greenhouse gas emissions. Putting a price on carbon is the most credible and least costly way to reduce emissions. That is because the emissions trading scheme passes on the costs of reducing emissions to emitters, as they are best placed to find the most cost-effective way of doing this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EHow well has our emissions trading scheme done? Well, forestry entered into the scheme in 2008, and since then there has been a sharp switch from deforestation to afforestation. Deforestation hit a record of 4,000 hectares between 2005 and 2008, but since forestry entered the scheme, new forest plantings have grown each year, with 8,000 hectares expected in 2011. This change reflects both the significant cost of permanently removing forests and the valuable income stream from new forests in the emissions trading scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe increase in afforestation has had a dramatic impact on New Zealand\u2019s net emissions, and it is essential to meeting our Kyoto obligations over the period 2008-12. On 1 July 2010 energy, transport, and industry entered the scheme. Emissions from electricity have grown 130 percent since 1990, which is the largest increase in any sector, but the emissions trading scheme has changed that. In 2010 the industry achieved a 12-year high in renewable generation, of 79 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286d2c822877b4c5bac16f55ff8e31700\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I have been listening very carefully to the speech, but I have not heard estimates mentioned yet. We have had a wonderful history about the emissions trading scheme, which Labour introduced, but we have not heard yet about estimates. This is a Budget debate on Vote Climate Change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247a9bb93c7384f3380f1ac1568ef5224\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member has been talking about current things that are in the estimates. She should perhaps make the comparative illustration, but she has not been too far from the mark. This is a caution to all members: this is the estimates debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a2e7f589b5f48ff8d46ed0f68a0dd71\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Again, with respect, as you would quite rightly concur, the estimates are forward-looking documents as to how the Government proposes to spend public funds. Although I am sure the emissions trading scheme forms part of that, the member has given us a history lesson in respect of the emissions trading scheme and talked about industry and how many forests have been felled and what have you. The estimates are about how the Government proposes to spend money. The member has not been around long enough\u2014New Zealand Bill of Rights Act aside\u2014to work that through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220292e132cc284fa4b6558c130f7ca051\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I have cautioned the member. Current policy is relevant, but the whole speech should not dwell on that. It is really the estimates that we are referring to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4a9e42b724645bfa406606ef12c687a\u0022\u003ENICKY WAGNER\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is particularly relevant that the costs of afforestation will make sure we meet the Kyoto Protocol. If we do not meet that protocol, it will be very expensive for our Government when we look at the 2008-12 period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI will focus on renewable generation. I think it is important that we understand that increased renewables will help us in the future in managing our carbon footprint. The growth of renewables has increased. I think we have already mentioned in the Chamber that 1,340 megawatts of renewable generating capacity has been consented in the past year, with no fossil fuel plants. That is a fivefold increase in renewables compared with the last decade, and that will help us manage the cost of carbon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EDuring the last 12 months the emissions trading scheme has performed well, and we expect it to continue to do so. Actual emissions have proven to be significantly less than those estimated, and it was expected that over the first reporting period the combined industrial, electricity, and transport sectors would have emitted approximately 18.8 million tonnes, but emissions were only 16.3 million tonnes. That means that our liability is absolutely decreased.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EWe can clearly see that a price on carbon has now been factored into New Zealand\u2019s economy, and that this price is helping us to achieve the Government\u2019s goal of reducing emissions and managing the costs of New Zealand\u2019s international climate change obligations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI would like to reflect on the fact that New Zealanders do enjoy our beautiful country, they do appreciate its great outdoors, and they are very keen to do their bit towards managing climate change, even if it is costing them. I think the emissions trading scheme is helpful in this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022e34f0996f811404290d6ac391e4a0ce6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e34f0996f811404290d6ac391e4a0ce6\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for Climate Change Issues):\u003C/span\u003E I am delighted to talk in this estimates debate on climate change. Does it not speak volumes about the level of confidence there is in the Government\u2019s policy around climate change that neither the Green Party nor the Labour Party want to take a single call? I think that says the policy is actually in really robust shape, that there is a high level of confidence about the Government\u2019s policies, and, ultimately, that they are working. Let me go through a number of ways in which they are working, including in terms of how that will flow through to 2011. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EOne of the key objectives for the Government is to reverse the awful deforestation that occurred during the term of the previous Government. In this year we are dealing with, officials estimate there will be 5,700 additional hectares of forest. Let us compare how that works. In the previous decade there was a huge increase in deforestation; the worst period of deforestation since records began in the 1930s was under the previous Government. So when we introduced our policies around climate change, we wanted to reverse that, and we have achieved just that, with an increase in afforestation for every single year we have been the Government, and that is continuing on into this year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EA second key objective for the Government and our climate change policies is that we think we should be producing more of our energy from renewables. New Zealand is actually more privileged than most countries in that regard. What actually happened was that during the term of the previous Government we saw a constant decline in the proportion of electricity that was renewable. Most of the power stations that were built under Labour were thermal fossil-fuelled power stations. In the last year we have seen a huge improvement in that regard. It is as impressive as this: a fivefold increase\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248f535cfd5994bb7b2d63656f0641e82\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251fa2d02919e44c6aa4fd3d02334d570\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014a fivefold increase\u2014that is a 500 percent increase\u2014in the amount of consenting for renewables.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267aa5137-7503-4a8f-bde1-1811615598e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce4a3529c1e448eeb650b19f9b448059\u0022\u003EBrendon Burns\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t that unbelievable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6ad9385dcaa4e7eb471a9ca1f623d05\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: It is very unbelievable. Mr Burns says it is unbelievable. It is unbelievably good, and that is what we get under a National Government. The interesting thing is this: in terms of this future year, we are expecting to see, and the Government is budgeting for, an ongoing improvement in the proportion of renewables, and that is to be celebrated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe third element is, of course\u2014and this is absolutely pivotal to estimates\u2014what the cost to taxpayers will be of meeting our Kyoto obligations. Again, let me show members how it works. Under the Labour Government, emissions increased by 23 percent. This was the Government that campaigned on being carbon neutral, that said when it came to Government it would reduce emissions by 20 percent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222ab2f57cc8d48bcbfc135ffd761a439\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I again repeat that this debate is about the estimates in the Budget. I have not heard one word about Budget investments since this year of 2011.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216a8193afd6c4211996354c73590fcb7\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: I will overrule that. I think the member is making comparisons and projecting\u2014looking forward. I think he is in the zone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3896d6681bb4a898216ff8259e359ed\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: They are so sensitive because their record is just so ugly. Let me tell members the advice I received when I became Minister for the Environment. It was that if that emissions track continued, the cost to the New Zealand taxpayer of meeting our Kyoto obligations\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3bc394ea555409c9fc0009ab762167d\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. I simply ask for your clarification. In responding to my colleagues and giving your ruling to my colleague\u2019s question about relevance to estimates, you made a comment in respect of that that I assume means the Minister was adhering to the Standing Orders by talking about forward-looking estimates. But you used what we could probably call new parliamentary language and said he was \u201Cin the zone\u201D. I just want you to interpret that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e05011a020aa4edbb0343d6e6743cad0\u0022\u003EThe CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Please sit down. That is rather trivial. The member has surmised correctly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7501041b43e4025a232d2f15466cbcb\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The key issue in the estimates is how much the New Zealand taxpayer will have to pay for New Zealand to meet its Kyoto obligations. And the answer is absolutely not a penny. Do members know why? Under the first 2 years of the emissions trading scheme our emissions have stopped going up; they have gone down. And they have gone down so well that New Zealand will comfortably meet its Kyoto targets, and that is absolutely good news for the taxpayer. Rather than having to write out a cheque for $485 million to countries around the world\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228cf0fb6b-0b8f-4327-983d-73e1166c220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9f6c558c6a8483caf0e29cc7d6e7d02\u0022\u003EDr Cam Calder\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aba106b27ee4873b2a94ccba48c18f1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The cost to New Zealand without the emissions trading scheme would have been $485 million. But, as a consequence of having the scheme in place, emissions are down, we are meeting our targets, and that is extra good news\u2014extra good news! While the M\u0101ori Party is in the House I will acknowledge that the only way this Government has been able to get that scheme up and running, get emissions down, get the investment in forestry, and get the investment in renewable energy is that the M\u0101ori Party had the wisdom to back a sensible, pragmatic emissions trading scheme that is working for New Zealand, that is working for M\u0101ori, and that is ensuring we meet our environmental obligations. I simply say how proud this Government is of the sensible progress it has made, and over the course of dealing with the emissions trading scheme review and working forward, our objective will be to maintain that balance of minimising costs and maximising progress on this important issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EVote agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022544faad147f14079903832e5b9409f1b\u0022\u003EVote Environment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002269ca2549fa4747ccb43d3c92781d9352\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269ca2549fa4747ccb43d3c92781d9352\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E It is my privilege to stand and speak this afternoon on Vote Environment. I am proud to be one of John Key\u2019s team and proud of the fact that he has navigated the balance so nicely around growing the economy and protecting the environment. I thought I would touch on three areas in particular, and I want to give a very local example of how exactly that balance can be achieved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI will talk about the creation of the Environmental Protection Authority, under the leadership of Minister Nick Smith; renewable energy, which again has been touched on by the Minister under his climate change responsibilities; and also the environmental issue that affects the Taup\u014D electorate more than anything, and that, of course, is water quality and our Fresh Start for Fresh Water Clean-up Fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ELet me start with the Environmental Protection Authority, because the establishment of that authority is yet another election promise delivered. It was something that was talked about in the blue-green vision document, and it is great to see it being enforced from 1 July. Clearly, in terms of the estimates, funding has been put aside for this stand-alone authority that provides central direction at a national level and makes environmental protection so much easier. It brings together the range of regulatory functions, but, more important, it provides the direction that has been so lacking under the previous Labour Government. Regional and district councils actually have some guidance now in terms of providing some direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EOne of the other things that the Environmental Protection Authority has been able to do is the national consenting processes. This is particularly valuable with renewable energy projects, of which there are quite a few in the Taup\u014D electorate. One of the questions that came up today in the Chamber, which Minister Smith was talking about, was the stunning results that we are seeing in terms of renewable energy in this country. We are seriously on track to achieve our target of 90 percent renewable energy by 2025, and we have had consented in 2010 the highest level ever in terms of generation with renewable sources. [Interruption] Forty-two percent was geothermal. The Taup\u014D electorate is the heart of geothermal energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EProgress reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2011080410abaeb3f3c0408888e7e6c97aaebf14000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.55 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"