"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa27d3403a544a499662b171444a4ac6\u0022\u003EThursday, 11 August 2011\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002266b1da828f9d4f8cab88e80101f0a116\u0022\u003EThursday, 11 August 2011\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000002\u0022\u003EMr Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223d8e637bcab143638c0bffbffb6a7bad\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022082f6085fb0a46b9837de89411122874\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u002264a67d29bc2d4f73bf1adc2b2c61a934\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264a67d29bc2d4f73bf1adc2b2c61a934\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Acting Leader of the House: When the House resumes on Tuesday, 16 August the Government intends to move the first reading of the Legal Assistance (Sustainability) Amendment Bill, and the second reading of the Biosecurity Law Reform Bill. The Government then intends to move that urgency be accorded to the passage of a number of bills requiring timely implementation. The Acting Leader of the House intends to provide the Business Committee with further details next week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022019b3041190e4356856e217486343bc6\u0022\u003EQuestions for Oral Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222f11a9c8cbad4ba4af7ffb2261d3350e\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b38af84fb02c4aeb8e1b427f7a275508\u0022\u003EFinancial Markets, International\u2014Effect on New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022520335ff69e1437387880e7cde1156dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022520335ff69e1437387880e7cde1156dd\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What advice has he received about factors that lie behind the current turmoil we are witnessing on world financial markets, and what are the implications for New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00229486752ca69c41a0966986c1827dfec9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229486752ca69c41a0966986c1827dfec9\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Two related factors appear to be at work: a downgrade in world growth expectations, and increasing worry about the creditworthiness of some countries and companies. So we have seen sharemarkets fall sharply while some sovereign debt markets have improved. Credit risk premiums for lower-quality debt have increased, and economically sensitive commodities, such as oil, have seen declines in prices, while gold, which is seen as a safe haven, has risen in price. Our markets are increasingly differentiating between the strong and the weak. New Zealand is among those countries that are seen as having strong creditworthiness. Therefore, the market view of our debt has been improving. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e0deb8292d2455ebaf162841e66cc14\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: What are the main actions the Government has taken that are helping New Zealand to ride out this crisis and keep interest rates low?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1f6b013ce5f421eb9c1097d941f82f5\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: The Government started taking appropriate action back in 2008, because it believed that New Zealand was vulnerable to just these kinds of events. So we have worked to keep net debt below 30 percent of GDP, and to focus on returning to surplus so that our debt will stop increasing. We have continued to protect the most vulnerable, and we have worked on channelling Government spending to where it can be most effectively used, as well as taking a range of measures on the broader economy that will improve our growth prospects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228b5777233af4a759987ca8105e64064\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: In what way is New Zealand better placed to withstand the current turmoil than it was 3 years ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281322ed9e2a4455493f47c870b24d54f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: In any number of ways the New Zealand economy is fundamentally more sound than it was 3 or 4 years ago\u2014in particular, because New Zealanders have changed their view of debt. Through the first decade of this century there was excessive borrowing by households, but New Zealanders have taken the message from the world. They have stopped increasing their borrowing and are increasing their savings. That, alongside Government action, is reducing the vulnerability of New Zealand to these kinds of events. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f1bdff4b72b44c7aa2c6ed985ce8b8a\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: What are the policies that put New Zealand\u2019s financial stability most at risk?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c046e30ddf8469187fc4044bd63bf3e\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Given that markets are increasingly distinguishing between countries with strong creditworthiness and those that are weaker, anything that weakens our creditworthiness would be focused on quite intensely in today\u2019s market. The kinds of policies that would take us there would be bigger Government spending, higher taxes, and more debt. We are not going to go down that path.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224183da721e23429b954eccf4c59ff069\u0022\u003EMine Safety\u2014Safety Standards Compared with Australia\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1e2b5bc895e4a47bdd57af545a96b83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1e2b5bc895e4a47bdd57af545a96b83\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: Does she still agree, as she did on 13 July 2011, with the comment made by Rt Hon John Key on 22 November 2010 that \u201CI have no reason to believe that New Zealand safety standards are any less than Australia\u2019s and in fact our safety record for the most part has been very good\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022c45add3724744f8dbfaadd2eb01a1ceb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c45add3724744f8dbfaadd2eb01a1ceb\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I agree with the Prime Minister. Further to that, we have established a royal commission of inquiry to investigate all matters relating to Pike River. We have specifically asked the commission to compare New Zealand\u2019s regulatory provisions with those used in other countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022777b03b84ecd4b61a3a1c3ba96c239aa\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: Did she agree with the 15 out of 17 submitters on the Department of Labour\u2019s 2008 discussion paper Improving health and safety hazard management in the underground mining industry who considered that there were real problems requiring change; submitters that included Pike River Coal, which drew attention to the inadequacy of New Zealand mine safety regulations, and the woeful state of the mines inspectorate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022297476adb28f44108e5ee92e9e20fdbe\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I took advice from that report from my department, and I accepted the recommendations where appropriate. Can I say in relation to Pike River that it was a serious, serious tragedy that affects our nation, but there is no determination yet as to whether the tragedy was a consequence of operational and/or regulatory failure. The commission has been given the job of determining that, and I expect it to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227c92937d03d49ec98df6e14053e2019\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister recall that her Workplace Health and Safety Council heard evidence prior to the Pike River disaster from Peter Whittall, representing the Business Leaders\u2019 Health and Safety Forum, that raised significant concerns about the regulatory framework for mining health and safety, specifically in comparison with Australia\u2019s?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae5777db4ef747939dbf4160fd340c15\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I recall that the issue of the qualification of mining experts and mining employees was raised, and that is why we introduced a regulation to address it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292aae4db3d534ec9a72bcee5f634e160\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: Why does she maintain that she has no reason to believe that our standards are any less than Australia\u2019s, given the repeated warnings from the Workplace Health and Safety Council, the submissions from virtually the entire industry to the Department of Labour, and the warnings from mine safety experts about the inadequacy of New Zealand mine safety standards? Are they all wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208eec64572b34721b2d459d3574a949f\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: We do take advice. We have set up the royal commission of inquiry. That commission of inquiry will be looking at, and has been looking at, the regulatory framework around our mining industry, and we will be taking those determinations and recommendations, when they are out, very, very seriously. Like all New Zealanders, we want to make sure that a tragedy such as Pike River does not happen again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bc82a091eda419dbb9f6a36f3bf95b6\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: What engagement was so important that she failed to attend the Workplace Health and Safety Council meeting on 16 December 2010, the first such meeting since the Pike River disaster?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eeb0ce81f060407491c5934aef7a237f\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I do try to attend all of those council meetings, but I believe that on that occasion I was in Kaiapoi attending to some earthquake-related issues. That also was a national tragedy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c39cd30834ef48debe735763cdf5d9cd\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: Were any concerns raised with her or her department about the safety of the Pike River coal mine prior to the disaster there in November last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236b3da81c58444fb95bfaa5bb082f08e\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I have explained, some concerns were raised about the qualifications of mine managers, and we did address that by regulation subsequently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248befada02da4b8d92e5e65176fbab43\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: Given the wealth of evidence that has emerged since the disaster about the lack of safety in the Pike River mine, such as inadequate gas drainage, drilling next to cavities filled with pressurised flammable gases, the answerphone issue I told the House about previously, and the inadequate provision for escape from the mine, does she now agree that the system of regulations and inspections must have been fundamentally broken for the situation to have arisen, for her not to have heard about it, and for absolutely no corrective action to be taken?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af20f64fca124221b4611855b2f682d8\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: The royal commission of inquiry has not yet made any determination on any of those evidential issues, and I will wait until it does before we address the situation. As I said, we are very serious about making sure that mining is safe in New Zealand. We do not want another tragedy like Pike River, but we do want to know what happened, why it happened, and what we can do to prevent it from happening in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b4b01ac7b0744a7a011ffef9b91ca6f\u0022\u003EKevin Hague\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the minutes from the Workplace Health and Safety Council meeting no. 14, from Wednesday, 16 December 2010\u2014the meeting immediately after the Pike River disaster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6e9c291840e4ed1bceb8a839bce223a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9e55075f7344d6ab9d80182492f19a5\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What is the role of the mines inspectorate, given her statement in a response to me that it is \u201Cnot to conduct a top-down audit of safety\u201D; and given the other advice that the Department of Labour gives to its inspectors\u2014that is, not to advise mine owners on how they should mine, for fear of legal liability\u2014what, indeed, did she expect the mines inspectorate to do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbb83aab-9566-44c4-9029-8bda4aaca7f2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa4eb3d96bce4f4a9d9211869a937085\u0022\u003EHon Phil Heatley\u003C/span\u003E: The same you did when you were in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f14a4e6c67342b696c60247711c323e\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly; the same as what the member\u2019s Labour Government expected of the mines inspectorate when it was in Government. Can I say that we must not forget that the primary responsibility for workplace safety in a workplace lies with the employer. That is how it was set out in the Health and Safety in Employment Act several years ago. The Act was amended twice by the Labour Government and it never at that stage addressed the test nor suggested that the test was inappropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022595b9118decd44bd9a72a819485b8e63\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Given advice to the Minister 18 months prior that \u201Ca plan needs to be developed for how inspectors will be trained and supported in professional expertise in the next 8 months\u201D, has a plan been developed; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224726a0dfa37e4317839ec6c70e2d5bde\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I have advised, we are taking a close look at the resources and expertise in the department to ensure it can carry out its role of overseeing the mining sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225add4d25b2e042eca0252a6f3c6f9293\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister consider that one solitary mines inspector is sufficient to uphold proper safety for miners in the hundreds of mines throughout New Zealand; if not, why is she not doing something about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282d3c918277f484db854f8aedaf2d9f2\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not think that one inspector is sufficient, but, actually, at the time of Pike River we had two mine inspectors. Subsequent to that, one of our mines inspectors was poached by the Queensland mining industry because it wanted his expertise. Can I also say that the number of mining inspectors was not increased under Labour, and we are actively looking at the resources of our department.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022410a38b67ba24a4d8c662bea198f5c49\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a page from the transcript from Michael Firmin, the Chief Inspector of Mines, who states quite clearly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd8a9fa1af2e473981b660049142abb9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The transcript of what?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c423bd37becc454f8b285e8d79d7b0eb\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: The royal commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dcd5dd6de974639a227644e60c1fff8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The current royal commission?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2bf81c5bfbf4b33a38d689e4ad7e3c3\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Where he states quite clearly that no plan has been developed to train and support the professional expertise of mines inspectors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff164ea39f454465b2d1c597c856603c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection? I want to be clear: there is objection, is there? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d8c30ac08aa44cea691d58fab531fb1\u0022\u003EHon Rick Barker\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister accept that practical, professional miners who work underground and face the consequences of actions must have the right to be directly involved in all safety issues, or will the Government continue with its current law of making all safety decisions the sole preserve of managers, who work safely at the surface?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a183693c51c48c299f2c35b7db8211c\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I accept that employee participation is very important in ensuring a good workplace safety culture in any workplace, and that is why we have work progressing on that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa891f7e11a3496fb6f9671dd3efd954\u0022\u003EYouth Skills Training\u2014Job Creation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddc877f269954d12a94487d6b973f13d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddc877f269954d12a94487d6b973f13d\u0022\u003EHon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his answers to Oral Question No 1 yesterday when he said that the Leader of the Opposition is \u201Cjust plain wrong\u201D in relation to skills training?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00225016cacbe7a64cf7b714ea529b385c4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225016cacbe7a64cf7b714ea529b385c4f\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: The member is being selective in her version of events. What the Prime Minister said was that it is \u201Cjust plain wrong\u201D that the Government is simply relying on bringing in people from overseas while New Zealanders stay out of work. In fact, in the last year 43,000 new jobs were created in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b587558d77c4794b0f87621b6b21a2c\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: How was the Leader of the Opposition \u201Cjust plain wrong\u201D when the Government\u2019s Youth Guarantee programme, which is supposed to provide a pathway to work for young people, has enrolled just 2,475 people, equivalent to 6 percent of those 15 to 19-year-olds who are currently unemployed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290c159dfee50447bbf70d122865ed77b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Because that is roughly the number of places the Government has allocated to the Youth Guarantee programme, which I might say is an innovative policy that is dealing with a significant group of teenagers\u2014and it will deal with more of them\u2014whom the previous Government just left out of the system. Once they left school, nothing happened for them. We are trying to keep these kids on track to get more training when school does not suit them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229ccd82da05441869f9284561ed962b2\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: How can it be \u201Cjust plain wrong\u201D when the number of Modern Apprenticeships, a scheme that is focused on upskilling 16 to 21-year-olds, has declined by 10 percent since early 2009 without any intervention or support from the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202392cda2414498b98f39fa16bf912c4\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: One of the reasons there has been some decline in apprenticeships is that industries such as the construction industry, which were built on the false hope of endless debt under the previous Government, have gone through major reductions in the volume of work that they are doing. We are doing our best to rebuild this economy so that those young people can get training opportunities. The member also needs to understand that her Government\u2019s focus purely on driving up numbers in trade training and industry training led to a massive waste of money. My colleague the Hon Steven Joyce is fixing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bf355402ad941b0b829d70fc6e07338\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: If the skills training cuts that he has made are due to wanting to get better value for money, how does he explain the disestablishment of the Skill Enhancement programme this year, which has run since 1993 and had an 82 percent rate of positive outcome for young New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220689866631df421f97bcbbbf2d82be60\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That member should explain why, under her Government\u2019s system, they were funding dead people to get qualifications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1fc40b80c5040a29cab127f529e2d98\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question asked about a specific programme. It may be that the Deputy Prime Minister, on behalf of the Prime Minister, may not have that specific information, but I think to attack the Opposition is not on if the Minister does not have the information. I invite him to indicate whether he can answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4f711fec08e4e04ba7b0402db252c36\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I cannot answer specifically about that programme, but I can say that it is part of a massive clean-up job this Government is having to do on the system. The previous Government said that the only thing that mattered was driving up the numbers. Thousands of young people were being misled because the taxpayer was spending money on their training, and they were getting no qualifications whatsoever. So why should we pay tens of millions of dollars for programmes that do not deliver any qualifications?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298562a2b1d2e4f27887c6b5515aadec0\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Is he satisfied that after almost 3 years his Government is doing everything possible to provide skills training opportunities for young people, given that the recent report from the New Zealand Institute shows that youth account for 45 percent of our unemployment, the highest rate in the OECD, and at a cost of $900 million to taxpayers each year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f44fb39c611f49e2a69e80f38a476452\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the Government is doing as much as it can, particularly given the fiscal constraints we have. Next year we will have 13,000 more post-school training places than in 2008, despite the fact that the budget is very tight. The Government has taken steps in primary and secondary schools to make sure that young people who leave our education system will be literate and numerate because of national standards, and that they will have choices because of policies like the Youth Guarantee. The Government is doing a much better job than that member\u2019s Government did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215541dac45734ef5bc3e485b8872ef23\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen the statement made by the Human Rights Commission 3 weeks ago in its report Tracking Equality at Work, which said that \u201Cunless action is taken urgently, the youth situation will become unsustainable, representing a threat to social cohesion\u201D in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256a07f8ee47d403ea11d707a835bc296\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have not seen that statement, but I can tell the member that the Government has spent a couple of years going through the mess of wasteful spending, conflicting programmes, and lack of accountability that were the characteristics of the previous Labour Government\u2019s spending in this area. We are making considerable progress, despite the fact that there is a recession and that the Government has no new money. I must compliment my colleagues who have worked in this area on how much progress they have made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fad01ba4fbe14e61b0a15e22909b0a43\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has he sought about the likelihood of social disharmony occurring in New Zealand as a result of high youth unemployment and disconnection, given the unrest that has occurred in Britain in recent days, which British commentators are saying arose from young unemployed people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200f5831cb3474331b0df32d04af14347\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: What erodes the confidence of young people in a community is false hope\u2014the false hope that badly managed Government programmes and an economy fuelled by borrowing will give them sustainable jobs. That is why so many young people are pleased with this Government, which, in a realistic and effective way, is rebuilding their confidence in the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b5db9c1f108847008de6090e89327cf9\u0022\u003EResource Management Act Reforms\u2014Effect on Grocery Business Competition\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022 data-id=\u002229c536540b3a4d2cb07f2374ec4c370c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229c536540b3a4d2cb07f2374ec4c370c\u0022\u003EKATRINA SHANKS (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: How have Government reforms to the Resource Management Act helped increase competition in the grocery business?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022137331493db543a6a78aa31bc9a1e5f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022137331493db543a6a78aa31bc9a1e5f6\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E The supermarket circus has long been a problem with the Resource Management Act. Both chains in New Zealand have abused the Act to block others establishing competing supermarkets, with pseudo-environmental arguments. The Wairau Pak \u2019N Save debacle on the North Shore involved objections from Progressive Enterprises and went all the way through the system, from commissioners\u2019 hearings to the Environment Court and the High Court, taking 12 years to resolve. The latest case involves Foodstuffs trying to block Progressive Enterprises from building a new Countdown store in Tawa. The losers in these legal charades are consumers, who are denied competition and choice and getting the best value for money for their groceries. National\u2019s 2009 amendment Act sought to stop such anti-competitive behaviour by disallowing trade competitor objections and appeals under the Resource Management Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a744a9a7-a2e8-401b-abfb-aec22a3818c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275f482a93db047099e6b650f4b00cc63\u0022\u003EKatrina Shanks\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has the Minister received on whether the new provisions are working?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269028ab17c734ae2a17c47e1a4c90446\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I am pleased at reports that the objection from National Distributions Ltd, a subsidiary of Foodstuffs, to the new Tawa Countdown has been struck out, using National\u2019s new Part 11A provision of the Resource Management Act. The company had argued that even though it was a 100 percent subsidiary of Foodstuffs, it was a land development and property business and not a supermarket, so it believed it was entitled to object and appeal against the new Countdown store. I am pleased that this argument was not upheld, and that the intent of National\u2019s reforms was carried through in this important test case. This is good news for the 14,000 people of Tawa, who currently have only one supermarket. It is a well-documented fact that food prices are most affordable in those areas where there is strong competition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221ca0bd618c8c4fd4b9c3b4649ec0a445\u0022\u003EEarthquakes, Royal Commission\u2014Legal Representation for Victims\u2019 Families\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022 data-id=\u00223837f8b6d84340e389f933e93a0fd2cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223837f8b6d84340e389f933e93a0fd2cb\u0022\u003EHon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour\u2014Waimakariri)\u003C/span\u003E to the Attorney-General: Will he meet with earthquake victims\u2019 families to hear directly why they need independent legal representation; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022128f6f9e46f648608cd86b1d76cb2a59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022128f6f9e46f648608cd86b1d76cb2a59\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da0b896bdc774379ad394aa7fd29656d\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Is the cost to the Crown the reason he will not provide independent legal representation to quake victims\u2019 families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7925863f1b943a183d1c8a9ce8a0c6d\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d149251e908f4a1ba214d6ac45270032\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Specifically then, given that answer, what is the harm in providing independent legal representation to quake victims\u2019 families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a47619b26c946d59cc14df19cfb8813\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is not a question of harm; it is a question of what is appropriate in the circumstances. I have been very happy with the excellent work the royal commission has done. Justice Cooper, who is the chair of the commission, the counsel assisting, and the families\u2019 liaison person have kept in very close touch with these families to help them through this time. It is very like the royal commission on the Victorian bushfire, which I know the member is interested in. The commissioner said: \u201CThe significance of the losses of 7 February led counsel assisting to adopt a role in the hearings that represented, as far as possible, the public interest and particularly the interest of families, friends and communities affected by the fires.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2605cbcfd8b4eb0b36e16e5d02c7ab6\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that refusing to provide independent legal representation to the families is likely to result in those families losing confidence in the effectiveness of the royal commission inquiry, the evidence of which is provided in an open letter from Quake Families to him and the Prime Minister, which is partly published today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212baaa7d4dbe497694d7ce83e7c9ec14\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d95ce7e79b34729a29a3cc76f928249\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter from Quake Families\u2014a group representing 50 quake families. It is an open letter to the Prime Minister and Attorney-General dated 10 August 2011, which details the lack of confidence I spoke about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2913b4184334d89b0d447b5e1d37097\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e65a555bde44cd4bca1294b16050bb2\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: Given that there is no harm in providing independent legal representation, why is he still refusing those requests for assistance, when providing such representation will afford grieving families some degree of comfort during what can be described only as an incredibly traumatic time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c95915e3ca7459596eff0ad41eb3e51\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON\u003C/span\u003E: Because I am very satisfied with the excellent work being done by Justice Cooper, counsel assisting the royal commission, and the families\u2019 liaison person. They are doing wonderful work and are keeping in touch with the families. I believe they will enable the families to be helped through this very difficult period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a426b1fab48647398d668be6f26ad1aa\u0022\u003EHealth Care\u2014Long-term Costs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022 data-id=\u00222ae7529afdd44fdc9c47fc5509b404d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ae7529afdd44fdc9c47fc5509b404d7\u0022\u003EHon JOHN BOSCAWEN (Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement that \u201CI think the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research is referring to some longer-term issues around demographic change and healthcare costs, and we share the chief executive\u2019s concern\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u00227727dee5861342b787b5055f1198bb5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227727dee5861342b787b5055f1198bb5b\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do, although I would say, having gone back and looked at the chief executive\u2019s comments, that I think he has exaggerated some of the challenges a bit by using language like saying that costs will grow exponentially over time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c5f54c5c1f44a85b7df6f7b39067c6a\u0022\u003EHon John Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: Does he believe that it is fair on pensioners to have to worry about the costs of the increasing number of elderly while he pretends that the age of entitlement can stay at 65, especially when Australia has announced several years in advance its intention to shift the age of entitlement to 67; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7e72743e4d346749347714d41ae7072\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I think the message for pensioners is that they do not need to worry, because they have attained the age of 65. I do not think that anyone is proposing that a change in the age of entitlement would affect them. They are a group who tend to worry more about these things, but in this case they do not need to. On the issue of raising the age of entitlement, the Government\u2019s position is quite clear and well understood.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260602a7884af4d048f056fd17fc7d5b1\u0022\u003EHon John Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: How is it that Australia, a far richer country than New Zealand, recognises that the age of entitlement must be shifted out, but here in New Zealand we have a Government promising to take on billions of dollars of extra debt over the next 4 years and potentially bankrupt New Zealand, rather than facing up to reality?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268acdfca3c484a599e8ef04308bc49bd\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: We do not believe that those are the choices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002277ec6495-df45-43ac-aaa1-a03b5dd4c128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fb872fefa4141a3b1e47a8ff7cbd6f8\u0022\u003EHon John Boscawen\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that his Government\u2019s decision to hang its reputation on holding the age of entitlement to 65 is a political one, to the long-term detriment of young people in New Zealand, who must shoulder the debt; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9cb8102614b4bf9934a1b756877bf57\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: No. I think the Government\u2019s reputation will hang on considered and consistent economic management in difficult times. With regard to the age of eligibility, yes, because it is a decision made by Parliament, it is a political decision. Our Government has made a decision not to raise the age of eligibility, and that is our position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b41bfedae9364420b9663ab9105e5c6d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022d29c49c3318a4c24848c521f918a7137\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d29c49c3318a4c24848c521f918a7137\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E In question No. 1 Bill English said that household debt had dropped. I seek leave to table a diagram that shows total household\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022104bd0fb83f7462dbde1a21f37d4a9bf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What is the source of this document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8f5a9597f1d4d7a9a8961cd248732dc\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: It is from the Reserve Bank of New Zealand, July 2011. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a42549b5725a475c90e937523c585eb7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is this its standard publication? The Reserve Bank makes a number of publications. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab75aa98ea56481fa85fbc960302db69\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CC5 Sector credit: resident New Zealand claims of\u201D\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c51a9292538547a98f9e1c82d119b09d\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Which document is it from?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d32e0a8ac3c4bf68a48e7759f79c1c4\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: It is just off the Reserve Bank website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dcd921c3eba42d096110e21885865e8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it is off the Reserve Bank website. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a622863197354594a51198054a503583\u0022\u003EForeign Charter Fishing Vessels\u2014Ministerial Inquiry\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022 data-id=\u0022bbca40ed190a40b992f7699bc970da65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bbca40ed190a40b992f7699bc970da65\u0022\u003EDARIEN FENTON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Labour: What is the timeline of the ministerial inquiry into the treatment of foreign fishing crews in New Zealand waters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u002215de8a8fe1e54784a1a5225b0fd0beba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215de8a8fe1e54784a1a5225b0fd0beba\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour):\u003C/span\u003E No time line has been set, as we are still working through the terms of reference and panel membership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022451e76c101c9487393d04c53e70482d4\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Does she consider that the testimony of the Oyang 75 crew, who have suffered serious human rights abuses and breaches of New Zealand labour laws, is an important part of the inquiry; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278c3d2c3a9984f20ae2187da51f565bd\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I accept that some very serious allegations have been made, and that is one of the reasons why we are having a ministerial inquiry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9ce7610f4fd4b9dbc24f3464eac8a33\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was very clear as to whether their testimony was important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c10ef77f1f824b4b9961f41161a622c8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I invite the member to repeat her question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224022ee282e44bfc9a7bea3501bfac36\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Does she consider that the testimony of the Oyang 75 crew, who have suffered serious human rights abuses and breaches of New Zealand labour laws, is an important part of the inquiry; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a75a13320efc49fab98ae7b23a4bd7da\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is not my responsibility to judge whether the testimony is appropriate. That is an operational matter, and is subject to the current investigation, which is under way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d88b7f59d8204bcb9d78a921abe73e50\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258c1c89a41b74a7695defc6a673e5aca\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t it a ministerial inquiry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4d637a98eb14656b4de0eccf036143b\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yes\u2014is she determined to deport the Oyang 75 crew this Saturday and send them home to fines of up to $5,000 each for breach of contract, while those responsible for the abuses have not been held to account, even though her department\u2019s advice to foreign crew on its website is that New Zealand does not tolerate violence against workers or unsafe working conditions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022384dc01b80444c808369a85a4b78940d\u0022\u003EHon Christopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I make this point of order as the acting Acting Leader of the House. Question No. 7 is a very precise question, and it concerns a ministerial inquiry, but now we are ranging forth into deportation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206ca9a575e434e279c675cf3840efe31\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the question asked about the time line for the ministerial inquiry into the treatment of foreign fishing crews. The supplementary questions relate to matters to do with a particular foreign fishing crew. It may be that the Minister does not have particular information, although it is a ministerial inquiry. I do not think it is unreasonable to link these questions to this primary question. Whether the Minister can be expected to have detailed information on any particular element is another matter. I ask the member to repeat her question, because the House has now probably lost track of exactly what it was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cf5c67aaaa1429a94a36465f036b0d6\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Why is she determined to deport the Oyang 75 crew this Saturday and send them home to fines of up to $5,000 each for breach of contract, while those responsible for these abuses have not been held to account, even though her department\u2019s advice to foreign crew on its website is that New Zealand does not tolerate violence against workers or unsafe working conditions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224359daaa86304f4ba4d5862e1ef7b4f8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the Minister to answer, I say that I now understand the concern of the acting Acting Leader of the House. That question is focused, I believe, on the Minister\u2019s role as Associate Minister of Immigration. The Minister is being questioned in her role as Minister of Labour. She is welcome to answer what part she can as Minister of Labour, but I accept that she is not responsible under this question as Associate Minister of Immigration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3ce849c14fa4acdb36ca7409146f9e5\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, thank you for answering the question for me. As Minister of Labour I have no responsibility for decisions on deportation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218a87756243a4b119210f68416c3e10b\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Did she, as Minister of Labour, ask the Minister of Immigration to ensure that the individuals who have been abused\u2014physically and sexually\u2014are still in the country in order to give their testimony to the inquiry that the Minister of Labour is setting up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a3a080d06864104865ff54189dc5393\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that no such decisions regarding deportation have been made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022954aa81888a24acb9475a9447ca3bc78\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Because I had not written my question down, I cannot read it out again, but I certainly started with the question of whether there had been communication in order to ensure that the people are still here to give their testimony.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b976d104dc904f5a916756ee6a9b579a\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed, that was the question. The member asked whether the Minister of Labour had asked the Minister of Immigration to ensure these people were still in the country to give their testimony. I think the Minister actually answered it as she might as Associate Minister of Immigration. The question was to her as Minister of Labour, and it was a fair question to a Minister of Labour. It asked whether she had advised the Minister of Immigration, and I think that is worthy of answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229363ba95242a45b0b81a341bd9f39b57\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking as Minister of Labour, there is frequent communication with the Associate Minister of Immigration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202dda8ae72d14a28896b84cfd235fe35\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221df7058a1fb143c09edbd1f25a67fafb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a serious issue. This is an issue that has attracted some public attention. There is some public interest in this matter. The Minister has been asked whether, as Minister of Labour, she has asked the Minister of Immigration something to do with this crew\u2014which could be involved in this ministerial inquiry\u2014possibly being deported. I do not think that saying the Minister frequently advises the Associate Minister of Immigration is quite good enough. I realise it is the same person, but the question deserves to be treated with some seriousness. A ministerial inquiry is being established by the Government. People who, it would appear from the questioning, could possibly be deported from New Zealand may be reasonably expected to be involved in such an inquiry. I think it deserves a reasonable answer because the question, I think, was a reasonable question. I accept that it is the same person, which makes it a little unusual, but I still think it is worthy of a serious answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268f1138581ec464da584d5ebe910c410\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: It is not the same person; the Minister of Immigration is Jonathan Coleman. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277c017b9d0374ddd866cafc981573a49\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I beg your pardon; I accept that totally. I accept my error there. I ask the Minister whether she could answer a little more fully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d6cbadaab5940afa8651c9db5ac99a4\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that the department is working closely with the crews to try to resolve the current situation, but I understand that no final decisions have been made. Of course there have been discussions between me as Minister of Labour and the Minister of Immigration and me as Associate Minister of Immigration, but no decisions have been made by the Department of Labour or the Immigration Service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022775b8b8f99624ed7b4c1c84df48c14c8\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8b96542bac24d818f64a0fc84a46ae1\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the email from the Minister of Immigration in response to my request that the crew outlined in this question be allowed to stay in New Zealand while their abuse allegations and the non-payment of due wages are investigated, and the Minister of Immigration\u2019s response, refusing to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3c5400874814c72ace1d6d399bdfe2b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member is just seeking to table the document. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bae52a063a2b48229d717eab1d721d4c\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a letter from the office of the Hon Kate Wilkinson to me, in reply to a request from me that she intervene in the issue of the Oyang 75 crew and waive the $550 fee to allow them to appeal their deportation order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255128cc584fb470aba9d950069376686\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a40f5af7-f9b0-4b44-9669-9e63be1c3ced\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dbc3e8db97448cf9141eac9a10ff29f\u0022\u003EDarien Fenton\u003C/span\u003E: Has she, as Minister of Labour, asked the Minister of Immigration whether the Oyang 75 crew and the Shin Ji crew can stay past deportation dates to assist with further investigations, should it become apparent that there is evidence of human trafficking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275957b9695614701bcad4e23de75a2bb\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: That specific question has not been asked, but I understand and am advised that the department is working very closely with the crews to try to resolve the current issues in the situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e0193a7c8774638ad169ccfc1eeb60e\u0022\u003EHon Trevor Mallard\u003C/span\u003E: Further to her earlier answer that she had no operational responsibility for the details of the ministerial inquiry, if she does not, who does?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bcebfacf67e4b7aa60f25c31e63af5e\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I refute that question, because that is not what I said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a7f66ba174a4c92a5549de832ae77bc\u0022\u003ERahui Katene\u003C/span\u003E: What was the key issue that caused the Government to change its mind about a ministerial inquiry into the fishing industry between when I called for such an inquiry on 5 April 2011, and 3 months later, on 14 July, when the Government made its announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b650231e3c5d48bdb0ff6e61a562db24\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member was quite right to be concerned about the issue back in April. Subsequent and further allegations have since emerged, and the Government considered that a ministerial inquiry was required and appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002258ed93017fc245dcb5e2cbbdab516199\u0022\u003EBroadband, Rural Initiative\u2014Progress\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u0022923b743d5a3846bfae4cd120671b237b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022923b743d5a3846bfae4cd120671b237b\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National\u2014West Coast - Tasman)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Communications and Information Technology: What progress is being made on the Government\u2019s goal of delivering fast broadband to rural areas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9094627891849f3a3ada2678e6dada7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9094627891849f3a3ada2678e6dada7\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Communications and Information Technology):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday the Government released two further tender documents for the final parts of the Rural Broadband Initiative contracts. Together these contracts will cover a further around 260 schools, integrated family health care centres, and up to 82 libraries. Following this roll-out, 98 percent of New Zealand schools will be connected to ultra-fast broadband at the same speeds as their urban counterparts, and the remaining 60 remote schools will have access to improved terrestrial or satellite wireless broadband services. We have been able to extend the roll-out to more health centres and some libraries as a result of the value delivered by the Government\u2019s tendering process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcd4991fa82a4b99aff529daa64625d3\u0022\u003EChris Auchinvole\u003C/span\u003E: What difference will the Rural Broadband Initiative make to rural communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220df1a7f9a36a4d9a8eee33648a8b3f2b\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE\u003C/span\u003E: When fully implemented, the Rural Broadband Initiative will mean our rural communities have improved access to the best health care and education services. The tyranny of distance will be almost completely removed. Fibre connections to places like Te Puia Springs hospital will mean that specialist services can be delivered to remote residents in the Gisborne region or, in fact, anywhere else in the country. This will save people having to travel for hours by road to access some health services, and specialists will be able to spend more time treating patients rather than driving to clinics. The New Zealand economy depends on the rural sector, and the extension of super-fast broadband to rural community hubs like libraries will also help keep our rural communities connected to the rest of the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226d25097a641247adb5dbac6a59416c63\u0022\u003EEarthquakes, Canterbury\u2014Red Zone Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022 data-id=\u00226f272c8031514cd29959a762bd1c67e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f272c8031514cd29959a762bd1c67e3\u0022\u003EDr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery: Does he agree that an appropriate part of the \u201Cred zone\u201D area along the Avon River through Christchurch should be transformed into a \u201Cgreen space\u201D for memorial and recreational public purposes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022 data-id=\u0022f82e4a45156a4583a1311570b8dbfe6f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f82e4a45156a4583a1311570b8dbfe6f\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (Associate Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery: At this stage we are concentrating on getting the offers of purchase out to people in the worst affected suburbs in the residential red zone. It is too early at this point to determine how that land might be remediated, although I congratulate the member and his team on at least putting together one proposal about what might happen. That is a lot more than some people have done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6ad4ec2f0554c20b47e2cebe54b66c6\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the Minister for his comments. Does he agree with the recommendation in the Green Party\u2019s The Future of Christchurch report that the land might remain in public ownership in perpetuity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220d261c909714e7b81d06613c4daeb1a\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: No. I will not be drawn on whether I agree with any of the Greens\u2019 proposals or anybody else\u2019s proposals at this point. I think there is a long way to go before a distilled view of where Christchurch will go emerges, and I certainly do not want to get caught on something too soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264f98a54d047481fb6c15d46085d1d13\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: Might he, none the less, agree in principle that such a zone could formally be called the Avon River Memorial Park, and that a suitable memorial of some kind could be erected to honour those who died in February?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222406b15fbbf7477bb631ad71f505c723\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: Whether or not suggestions like that have merit, it would be foolish for me to make a judgment call at this time. I am prepared to wait until all of the information is in and a proper process to make those decisions is undergone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292557bd5-0e66-473c-a6df-7d108e7822e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214eb3069bf57457fb33d1d556f20b709\u0022\u003EDr Kennedy Graham\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Green Party\u2019s report The Future of Christchurch: Report for a 21st century eco-city, which reflects the ideas generated from the public forums I have held in Christchurch over the past few months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2491f8c7d3e4628814b95e08f8e481f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b5d3b5a7df448468e065a3d013151ef\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: What is the reason he is saying that red zoned land may be used for residential development in the future, when this is holding people back from their recovery from the trauma of the earthquake and their displacement from their family home?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a11ce4e-9fb3-4738-b0be-5a9f81d975da\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220405fabf9e59491cb4491f861fe82d0a\u0022\u003EHon MAURICE WILLIAMSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am not sure that it is holding people back. I am advised that to date we have had just under 4,000 consent forms returned to the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority from those people living in the red zone with regard to the offer to buy their property. Can I say that there are still huge questions to be answered about the future of some of the land. Question time in Parliament before the proper work is done is not the appropriate place to answer those questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c186d0a2-99f4-408b-9b4d-d484cf19724d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c146d11d321946c9bec6f666c28ae77b\u0022\u003EHon Lianne Dalziel\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a copy of the letter that came with the consent form that makes it clear that the form has to be returned by 31 July or the offer will not be coming in mid-August.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a21c4778e5b43ff865e136feba1402f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227f945648541a4d31b6fbb8bc2d9c45be\u0022\u003ETax System\u2014Fairness\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9104ff552ea4c3eb35ce7a1157b5251\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9104ff552ea4c3eb35ce7a1157b5251\u0022\u003ESTUART NASH (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he believe the tax system is fair for all New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0347c962026402f95adfe495f27a98d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0347c962026402f95adfe495f27a98d\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The tax system is certainly fairer than the one we inherited from the previous Government, although there is always room for improvement. For instance, we have brought in changes that increase the effective tax rate on investment property, which was not being taxed under the previous Labour Government, netting just short of $1 billion of extra tax per year; closed loopholes that allowed well-off families to claim social assistance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7da08910e94485ba47525f2bcd88b7c\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is a primary question; I asked whether it is fair for all New Zealanders, not fairer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cf2f54ac8004171b65bc382db4095c3\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member makes a reasonable point. The question asks whether it was fair and it did not ask why, so I think we have had sufficient answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235fad442c3a74db7900ebb224b140421\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Government\u2019s own Tax Working Group wrong when it said \u201Ca large component of economic income is not taxed\u2014capital gains.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f42b6825eb8b44f18fc231ff1d217ce3\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It was stating a fact. Members will note that the Tax Working Group came to the conclusion that it would not recommend implementing a capital gains tax, and it certainly would not have backed the messy, complex, high-spending, high tax, high borrowing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213a415b1577143feb8278cf1792e4641\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. All I asked was whether the Government\u2019s Tax Working Group was wrong, and he said it was not wrong. I do not need a further explanation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b23eacba7914124840bd7fa3e80a744\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2014[Interruption] A point of order is being considered, and there is merit in the point being made. Questions are to be answered without further embellishment, according to the Standing Orders. The more brief the question and the less political the question, the less room there is for embellishment in the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022128da6a1688c49aca980882edcb9d4ed\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Government\u2019s own Tax Working Group wrong when it said \u201CThere are equity and fairness arguments that can be mounted in favour of a capital gains tax.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245a8fdceb3804c0f8e3dda20c39632b8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: I have not actually seen that quote, but it may well have said that. Making tax policy is always a trade-off between fairness, efficiency, and complexity. Unfortunately, the Labour Party\u2019s package loses on all three.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd73a59b4c194a87b18514b33d2e02a8\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think you know what my point of order is going to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221221cfdb8a0846a4b0ff1c1514ce3092\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister has sat down already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3ff097036284f12955e2f672ca34da0\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Government\u2019s own Tax Working Group wrong when it said \u201CA capital gains tax is generally said to support the integrity of the tax system by reducing opportunities for tax planning and tax avoidance.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222334994ae14c49d8b3d04a71f1aad8b8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: It may have said that, but it clearly lacked the certainty of its convictions, because its members could not come to agreement about a capital gains tax and did not recommend implementing one, despite the arguments it raised for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a06552e76e334574a84c70e086684a80\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a698da90e0494bde8e9791a5da1de7c1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I realise the point the member is going to make on this occasion, but I believe that it would be unreasonable to say that the Minister can say only yes or no, because to give some context that is helpful in ensuring the answer is meaningful is not outside the Standing Orders. On this occasion, I believe that is what the Minister was doing. That was not unreasonable. It was not superfluous embellishment, and it was not attacking the Opposition; it was just pointing out that although the Tax Working Group may have expressed that view, it did not carry it through into its recommendations, and that is a perfectly valid context to put around an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b66ca7228de44202bb60d45b2eae4c7d\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the Tax Working Group report, given that it may be of assistance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227f0488a23754ad6b2449b9230d55c15\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All members have the Tax Working Group report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f3ff4df4e904da080df10a05611fbac\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Is it really fair that a working person earning $50,000 a year pays around $8,000 in income tax while a person who sells an investment property for $50,000 profit does not pay any tax on that income?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bb158206-360b-4757-8d72-f7d0994e1fb3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228373e62e6b904821bcb18b0cb2d13cf8\u0022\u003EHon BILL ENGLISH\u003C/span\u003E: That may well not be correct, because there are quite a number of people who trade in investment property. But if the member is trying to make a general point about fairness, there was nothing fair about Labour\u2019s tax system\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224733d6a100344cf4b9dfbf61240896eb\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the Minister has no responsibility for Labour\u2019s tax system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e62ec3056a51433994a30c89d50d41bc\u0022\u003EHon Craig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a statement on the fairness of Labour\u2019s GST proposal, from Heinz-Wattie, which states: \u201CIt would discriminate against local producers\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2a0e3a65f924841b9e59e02a02701d0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What is the source of this statement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022659f6556-09a1-4ead-bc52-05cbdb4eaab8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbbb340b87a54f0c8cd53f97c8b2f94d\u0022\u003EHon Craig Foss\u003C/span\u003E: The source of this statement is an article in Hawke\u2019s Bay Today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d72bdb5afbb43ca8a7e920c522ea1cc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We do not seek leave to table current newspaper articles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002229826b878f1248d4b763b87bb7720408\u0022\u003EBenefit System\u2014Management\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u002290a12452dec040c289baeffbb5170003\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290a12452dec040c289baeffbb5170003\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What steps has the Government taken to manage gateways between benefits?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u002243f6f3c472a84c83a84d64ca06a1d754\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243f6f3c472a84c83a84d64ca06a1d754\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E We have ensured that the gateways between benefits have been tightened through better management of the benefit system. This is all despite a global recession. In 2004 the net flow of people going from the unemployment benefit to the sickness benefit was 5,963 people. In 2011\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226950dafc14eb49a988b511e9939df207\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the Minister, but the member asking the question has a right to hear the answer. The Opposition has been commendably brief in its interjections today, but on this occasion the interjections are unreasonable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce473abebbb642ecab2dcfc17ad3e166\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I will start again, Mr Speaker. We have ensured that the gateways between benefits have been tightened through better management of the benefit system. This is all despite a global recession. In 2004 the net flow of people going from the unemployment benefit to the sickness benefit was 5,963 people. In 2011, for the first time in over a decade, it was negative 712. Not only has National halted the flow but also we are now seeing more people transfer from the sickness benefit to the work-tested unemployment benefit, and that is a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdc73c42646c4b0684e29df90e213fbf\u0022\u003EKanwaljit Singh Bakshi\u003C/span\u003E: How has the Government\u2019s better management of the benefit system\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022343f744764ad4c9597ec27c8746bb48b\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi, but it is not fair to a colleague who has been called to ask a supplementary question if front-bench members continue to interject. It is rude. It is certainly not good enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f9c512a8-d532-4ef9-ad51-0fe8d752a893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022134342c9361c44eb9c7a9bf56fa52f4e\u0022\u003EHon Clayton Cosgrove\u003C/span\u003E: We weren\u2019t sure who he was, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd5fbc4ccb0746fd80d9cbeff9b391d9\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022929b91a9e5cb4574842a94d2315d01e7\u0022\u003EKanwaljit Singh Bakshi\u003C/span\u003E: How has the Government\u2019s better management of the benefit system impacted on the overall number of those on the sickness benefit and invalids benefit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022584111e82fc24081af134df28d521c34\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: In the 2000s we did see the number of people on the unemployment benefit decrease, but the number of people on both the sickness benefit and the invalids benefit increased by about 50 percent. Yes, we have seen an increase in the number of those on the unemployment benefit over the last 3 years, but we have not hidden the numbers or simply transferred people to another benefit to make ourselves look better, like Labour did when it was in Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002206822c099e2348b085eba96fa572bc59\u0022\u003EEducation, National Standards\u2014School Charters\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u00229edc3f0981e94015940f5a1d1c693d3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229edc3f0981e94015940f5a1d1c693d3c\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does she stand by all of her answers to Oral Question No 8 yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022955029fcac6b416798822a49c0a9ab22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022955029fcac6b416798822a49c0a9ab22\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214356e8d3819451183faae9f41de8840\u0022\u003EKelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Minister make of the fact that 533, or over a quarter, of 1,922 analysed school charters are non-compliant?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b734724feca24f39a707f420d067292c\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the ministry is assessing those charters on a variety of criteria, and it is working with schools to develop their charters so that they are compliant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0c6645cbe51433f8d6f28a368b86eab\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Are there schools that have refused to submit their charters by the 1 July deadline, as well as the 533 schools whose charters are non-compliant; if so, how many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cdf015ec5f0473aabc4987c35235e5d\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I would not have any way of knowing whether a school has refused to do that. That is asking for an opinion, and I do not have access to information about it. But I can say to that member that of the so-called rebel schools that submitted their charters\u2014about 437\u2014338 of their charters have been analysed and almost half of those did contain national standards targets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a54d32f1a7a047fe8bc9ccf61f985fd8\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Does she still intend to take control of schools away from parents by putting in a statutory manager if they do not comply with her national standards policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ce0656d6452445893af511435c7ba2c\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, we are working with schools that may be breaking the law, in a variety of ways, helping them to understand that they are, in fact, breaking the law, and making sure that they have every assistance to comply with that law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226920782d1d3f4bd6a9bd6fb7a805a1a8\u0022\u003ESue Moroney\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think the stand-off she has created between her and 533 school communities is beneficial to the education of New Zealand children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e84350cf0e61445cb9ddcc967b916c24\u0022\u003EHon ANNE TOLLEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s assertion is incorrect, because, as I have said, the criteria that the ministry is using to assess those charters as being compliant are much wider than just whether they have targets that go against national standards. What I can say is that there are over 2,000 primary schools, and the majority of those are implementing the standards. In fact, I was at a school this morning where it was said to me that, already, the school could see that using national standards targets had lifted the achievement of its students. That is what this Government is all about: we are about getting results for kids, not about creating stand-offs with unions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022147a7884d5ec41c08b72ea8e4e6da28c\u0022\u003EUrgent Question to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002205d285871c144adebbf9ec9a4ec69d5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205d285871c144adebbf9ec9a4ec69d5c\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am just considering a matter here that is quite important. I beg the House\u2019s indulgence. [Interruption] I apologise to the House for that distraction. What happened was an urgent question was lodged with me, and I have to decide whether the facts of the matter as before us justify the urgent question. It is my ruling that on this occasion they do not, because the Minister has indicated to the House that nothing will happen before there is a chance to ask further questions, and therefore an urgent question is not appropriate today. Had that not happened, I think the matter would have justified an urgent question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00225625ee76c0004bee852c5e23d89aecb2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225625ee76c0004bee852c5e23d89aecb2\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Does that mean that we have an assurance in the House that the deportation order to take effect on Saturday will not happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddd2577c6bc6494daf7de35fc11c58a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddd2577c6bc6494daf7de35fc11c58a1\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The reason why that point is relevant is that were that not to be the case, then I would have allowed the urgent question. My understanding was that the Minister had indicated that would not necessarily be happening. If that is not that case, then I believe the question should be allowed. Perhaps, to clarify the matter, I should allow the urgent question. I have perhaps made a wrong assumption, so I will hand the question over for the urgent question to be asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022db662fc6d86646459154f650213ea510\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db662fc6d86646459154f650213ea510\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. There were ample opportunities for the member to ask supplementary questions. If his supplementary questions were inept, well, that is it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u0022985345ee74e44132900a41afd1962674\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022985345ee74e44132900a41afd1962674\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The acting Acting Leader of the House should not use that kind of language; it is not becoming. [Interruption] It is my decision whether an urgent question is appropriate. If, in fact, there was no chance to ask further questions, if things were going to happen before there was the opportunity to do so and there is no opportunity to ask further questions today without an urgent question being accepted\u2014in my view there would be grounds for the Speaker to accept an urgent question. In respect of my initial ruling, until the matter was drawn to my attention by the person who had lodged the question, my initial understanding was that nothing would happen before further questions could be asked in this House. That would appear not to be the case. I believe that, in respect of a matter of public interest, if an action is to be taken before there is the opportunity for a question to be asked, then those are grounds for an urgent question, and that is why I am allowing the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022fee735d7090742cd99dd1d8f453ed434\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fee735d7090742cd99dd1d8f453ed434\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just refer you to Standing Order 379(1), which says the member must also give a copy of the question to the Minister involved. I want to clarify whether that has occurred. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221482c95394b34d94bc8e749743ec6895\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will hear the Hon David Carter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248dc7e3f8e884d27843ea62547995bd9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: An urgent question is something that occurs on a very infrequent basis in this House for urgent matters. To allow this to proceed is, frankly, making a shambles of the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002280ee58bc7b424cb188f74d034c379263\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280ee58bc7b424cb188f74d034c379263\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will not hear any more on this. The House will come to order straight away. Serious matters of public interest are never a shambles in this place\u2014never. Serious matters of public interest that Ministers are responsible for should be treated seriously, and this is the place where Ministers are held to account. I ask the member for the Standing Order again, as I did not hear clearly which one he was referring to. [Interruption] It is 379(1).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229aeef2f8b5884acd80020695c1853b72\u0022\u003EHon Rick Barker\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f64fa7aaee24b74bb562e92d7a66114\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am dealing with the matter, and I will not hear a further point of order while I am dealing with the matter. There is no question that the member is right. I think on that basis I cannot allow the question, because it is not in order\u2014[Interruption] No, no, no. I think the dilemma we have is that the question was lodged with the Clerk so late that it is impossible to deal with it properly. I want the House to come to order, because this is a serious issue. The Standings Orders do have to be complied with, and at the time I had to make a ruling on it the Minister did not have a copy of the urgent question. So the Standing Orders had not been complied with. I cannot overturn the Standing Orders. But I want the House to treat this matter seriously. I cannot depart from the Standing Orders. I have tried to make every opportunity for a matter of public interest to be dealt with, but the Standing Orders are the Standing Orders. That is the end of the matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022 data-id=\u0022a194c549c4414ffca2e60eef3bf99c75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a194c549c4414ffca2e60eef3bf99c75\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229598ffd2dad744f3b1e2841628cd7acf\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have made it very clear it is the end of the matter. There can be no further points of order on this matter, so it has to be on a different matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212d7e60dc24b4717b5869ea9f53ad305\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is on this matter, but it is a different aspect of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222e44ec330b247e890850109683779d7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Because the Hon Rick Barker normally has something worth hearing, I will hear the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203bc0052-6dd8-4807-998a-4768a4732e0b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223997cfe1c8e847d799238bc495a51227\u0022\u003EHon RICK BARKER\u003C/span\u003E: The situation is not too dissimilar from when Ministers walk from the Beehive across to this House. Members of the press gallery do not give prior written notice to Ministers of issues they wish to doorstop them on. Let us be frank about that. They turn up as they come by, and Ministers are expected to answer the questions when they are there. I accept they do not give them notice that they will turn up. All Ministers understand that. When they walk across, they are prepared to answer any questions. I accept your point, Mr Speaker, that the Standing Orders prohibit it in that regard, but I seek leave for the Hon Trevor Mallard to be able to ask one further question to the Associate Minister of Immigration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022616d34eb53c94bc192f4e59fc6226559\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is objection to that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0cda620268f44bead2eb46e5e74106b\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: Gutless!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b63ff6a7a874f62a9953db5f34adebc\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014course of action. The Hon Annette King will get to her feet and withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a5b71a-ca7e-4e7c-9e09-f9e63f18aa12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234a01c62d7c9457f9cd8f7917a241092\u0022\u003EHon Annette King\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231a0637811154d93857337452bf6b0f4\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc2f38607fa943dd98122815ad16b391\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc2f38607fa943dd98122815ad16b391\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Associate Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Just speaking to that point of order, and because it is a matter of public interest and very serious\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e4cc186d9994d8987e06cd011d98eb0\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do not understand what point of order can be raised here, because that matter has been dealt with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aeefb96bf45f4668a595b893a3e49fad\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: Can I seek leave?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292010d4a946f45ec87416e2e7a0d94a7\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister can seek leave indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022604ef733477641d1bd38fa79d53f8d88\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to clarify the situation and attempt to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002247c9ee0b4cc9493a93741ebc66e3edff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247c9ee0b4cc9493a93741ebc66e3edff\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the Minister wishes to make a ministerial statement, that is debatable. There is no personal explanation that I am aware of that the Minister can use here. The matter has been dealt with. I sought to enable an urgent question to be asked. It was pointed out to me that that was inconsistent with the Standing Orders. I totally accept that\u2014it was inconsistent with the Standing Orders. I have to rule in favour of that. I sought leave on the recommendation of the chief Opposition whip. Leave was not granted, and that is the end of that matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002223a22ecf2dd14b458e68a5e3b26b1843\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223a22ecf2dd14b458e68a5e3b26b1843\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255f8f0da8e73407a99e9c10df9871f86\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have said that that is the end of the matter. Well, I will hear it; I want to understand what the point of order is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9478eccecb6419bac335c70ec86212a\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD\u003C/span\u003E: The point of order is to make it clear to the House that the Labour Opposition will not object if the Minister asks for leave\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022 data-id=\u002228bdf3678844471fa426d9c72221cc0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ac169d29-4849-42c2-a4a7-f344fd416503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228bdf3678844471fa426d9c72221cc0f\u0022\u003EMr SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. [Interruption] I am on my feet. Members have pointed out to me that the Standing Orders did not provide for this urgent question to be asked, and I have ruled consistent with the Standing Orders. That is the end of the matter. The House must now move on. Question time is a time for questions to be asked. The member was quite at liberty to lodge an urgent question. I felt there was some merit in the question he lodged, but the Standing Orders precluded my dealing with it today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228361860b9cfe40daa7eea089e7e10e49\u0022\u003EElectoral (Administration) Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002203a27cc9d1554ae5beb1a3a3a1dab98f\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000249\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 10 August.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002204c95834a759449da44a92c9051ad36b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204c95834a759449da44a92c9051ad36b\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS (Labour\u2014Rimutaka):\u003C/span\u003E I intend to take only a very, very brief call on the Electoral (Administration) Amendment Bill (No 2)\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002267431f57-e958-4c83-b438-7da8061d479e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f20736859374f64a3b77e9a460ba6a8\u0022\u003EPaul Quinn\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve said that before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258baeead3d114d56bcccca887f778937\u0022\u003ECHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but the more Paul Quinn interjects, the longer it will be. My contribution will be brief. I welcome the introduction of electronic voter enrolment. It is particularly relevant for younger enrolees and prospective voters. It is of huge concern to me that younger people under the age of 25 dominate the list of people who are eligible to enrol to vote but do not. I hope that allowing electronic voter enrolment will certainly go some way to addressing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI hope that in the next Parliament and the near future we will have a debate about whether electronic voting should be allowed in this country, because I think that would potentially also encourage more young people to vote. I know that will be a source of significant debate. I hope it is one we can address in the next Parliament, not this one. I think it should be addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EOverall, it is a good bill, and Labour will be supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002289747c9ff5e54bcf9ecde6c7038e3c6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289747c9ff5e54bcf9ecde6c7038e3c6e\u0022\u003EHon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to make it clear that I totally endorse the comments of Chris Hipkins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022cad56a19712c451491812a79a7a5e447\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cad56a19712c451491812a79a7a5e447\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Some members think electoral law makes one\u2019s eyes glaze over, but of course it is of fundamental importance and constitutional significance. I think\u2014as Carol Beaumont, an authority on constitutional matters, said yesterday in the House on the Electoral (Administration) Amendment Bill (No 2)\u2014that there is really nothing at all controversial about this bill. That is a testament to what this Government has done in this area. We have taken much of the heat and controversy out of electoral law matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThis bill is the final stage of two stages of reform to amalgamate electoral agencies. It is a good measure, without controversy, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221fe6f36e2cec48e68eed6252ff28f354\u0022\u003EFreedom Camping Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eb628936d2484522aed748f07ac97cad\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8e8ed488eb44479bc4adbb57550df0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8e8ed488eb44479bc4adbb57550df0c\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Freedom Camping Bill be now read a second time. Firstly, I thank the Local Government and Environment Committee for its clear analysis of the issues and for its excellent report. I also thank the committee for reporting back a bill that will protect our environment and ensure that New Zealanders and visitors to New Zealand can enjoy the freedom to camp, while enabling local authorities and the Department of Conservation to better manage freedom camping for everyone\u2019s benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EI agree with the changes the committee has recommended. Some submitters were concerned that the bill had the potential to catch out responsible campers or allow local authorities to issue blanket bans across their districts. Both of these concerns have been addressed. This bill\u2019s default position is that freedom camping is allowed on public land, subject to the Act. It is a matter for local authorities and the Department of Conservation to identify specific sites where freedom camping is prohibited or limited to self-contained vehicles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThere is little argument that freedom camping is causing communities considerable concern. The number of people undertaking this activity has doubled over the past decade, and the waste left behind as a result has increased significantly. We are an outdoors destination, and we encourage tourists to come here, travel across the country, and enjoy our backyard. Freedom camping is a tradition that will carry on, and this bill is careful to ensure that it does. But we do have a duty to protect our environment from the minority who could not care less about their moral and legal responsibility to leave a site as they found it. The filth that has pervaded some parts of the country is troubling. Not only is it costing councils and the Department of Conservation financially to clean up the mess being left behind but it is ruining the experience of responsible campers and damaging our international reputation. We are not a dirty country; we pride ourselves on being clean. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThis bill is designed to allow local authorities and the Department of Conservation to address freedom camping issues they are facing, especially at popular tourist sites. Local authorities will be able to make by-laws prohibiting or restricting freedom camping in a particular area, but only if such a by-law is the most appropriate way of addressing those problems. Prohibitions or restrictions will apply only to areas where problems are being caused by freedom campers. Importantly, any prohibitions or restrictions must be in proportion to the problems identified, which will also alleviate the concern regarding blanket bans. This is a stronger pro-camping stance than currently exists under some local authority by-laws.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241de5572e5964e99b65a22a13c9d7698\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: I caution members about the use of telephones in the House. Usually, if a phone rings in a select committee, the member shouts afternoon tea. I think it would cost the member a lot of money in Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fdaf575d2ea44dfafd1c6f15a1dbdf6\u0022\u003EHon KATE WILKINSON\u003C/span\u003E: The bill will also result in nationally consistent signage and improved online resources informing both domestic and international tourists of where camping is restricted. There has been concern that some of the by-laws listed in the schedules impose blanket bans on freedom camping. It is true that some of the by-law provisions in the bill\u2019s schedules do not entirely reflect the parameters set by the bill, but none of the current by-laws imposes an outright ban on camping in a district. Many local authorities provide designated areas for camping, and their current by-laws do not allow freedom camping outside those areas. The bill reverses this position, in favour of freedom camping being allowed everywhere, except in designated no-camping areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EIn order to enable local authorities to use the infringement regime during the Rugby World Cup 2011, the bill is pragmatic in its use of the existing camping-related by-laws. Approximately 95,000 visitors will come to New Zealand over the 6-week period of the Rugby World Cup, and a great many of these visitors plan to travel between the games in campervans, freedom camping along the way. Breaching existing local camping by-laws will be an infringement offence for 1 year. After the year is up, local authorities, in consultation with their communities, will have to make new by-laws under the Freedom Camping Act if they wish to use the infringement regime. New freedom camping by-laws will have to conform to the provisions set out in the bill. No responsible law-abiding freedom camper or tramper will be affected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe bill defines freedom camping as an activity that takes place within 200 metres of a vehicle-accessible area or the coast. Trampers in the back country will not be ticketed for making camp for the night during a tramp. Nor do picnickers need to worry that they will be prevented from enjoying a day\u2019s recreation at their favourite picnic spot. People will still be able to sleep overnight at road ends before starting a tramp, unless specific restrictions apply to that site. There are already some restrictions on camping near the start and end of some of the Great Walk tracks, and these have not created problems for legitimate users. The committee has also specifically reinforced that tired drivers will not be fined should they need to take a few hours\u2019 rest on the roadside. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThis bill will not only protect our traditional Kiwi camping experience but will ensure that visitors to New Zealand, who inject millions of dollars a year into our economy, are also able to enjoy the best of that traditional Kiwi experience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe bill has been criticised by some for being a disproportionate response to the problems associated with freedom camping. It has been suggested that a better way to deal with the problems is to provide more public toilets and rubbish tins. Local authorities and the Department of Conservation have found that other tools and methods of management are of limited effect, do not have teeth on their own, or have negative side effects. Providing more rubbish tins or public toilets may alleviate problems in some areas, but there are significant costs to local authorities and the Department of Conservation to establish and maintain toilet and rubbish collection facilities. For example, the Queenstown Lakes District Council spends $326,000 a year to clean and maintain 45 public toilet buildings. It costs about $10,000 to install even a basic, back country - style kit toilet. To build and maintain public toilets at every potential freedom camping site may not be a priority for the ratepayer when considered against other community priorities. This is particularly true in areas such as the West Coast, where local authorities have large land areas and high visitor numbers but small rating bases from which to fund facilities and services. There is also no guarantee that such facilities will be used. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EThe threat of a $200 fine will be a valuable tool for local authorities and the Department of Conservation. Like all enforcement there is room for leniency should the occasion suit, but the threat of a fine will give authorities more confidence to tackle issues and move campers on. Some submitters suggested that freedom campers be required to comply with the New Zealand standard for self-contained motor caravans. This standard may be a useful way for enforcement agencies to identify whether a motor caravan parked in an area where only self-contained vehicles may park is complying with those conditions, but it is not mandatory or required under this bill. However, we do not want to be in a position where only people in expensive motor homes are allowed to experience the great outdoors. In some areas freedom camping may be permitted only in self-contained vehicles. In other areas where there have been no significant problems or where toilet and waste facilities are provided, freedom camping in non - self-contained vehicles or in tents may be totally acceptable. It will be up to local authorities, the Department of Conservation, and local communities to decide what is appropriate at particular sites. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EOne of the changes the committee recommended was the creation of a new offence in relation to the serious environmental harm that can be caused where, for example, someone empties a campervan sewage tank on to a rest area. This offence recognises that self-contained vehicles are only as environmentally friendly as the people who operate them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EWe want people to enjoy our countryside. We want visitors to come here and see what a beautiful country we have. We need to encourage everyone to act responsibly and with care for the environment. When they do not, we need to make sure that local authorities and the Department of Conservation have the tools to deal with them. This bill enables that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022136da8c4-afc7-483e-a39c-c66812f71774\u0022\u003EFinally, I thank again the select committee for the excellent and prompt work it has done on this bill. There were many passionate submissions. The report shows that the committee has been attentive in listening to submitters. The changes will help significantly in achieving the bill\u2019s intentions. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022dea863f732bc4d859be066954b94452d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dea863f732bc4d859be066954b94452d\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E It is with some degree of disappointment that I say to the House that despite the best efforts of the Local Government and Environment Committee working to improve the Freedom Camping Bill Labour will oppose it. We agree that there is a problem; it is a very small problem. It is one that in our view had alternatives that would have been preferable to this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis bill is a sledgehammer to crack a walnut. It goes far too far. More important, it restricts some of the activities that New Zealanders value as being at the core of our being and as part of being New Zealanders. Our ability to stay the night on the roadside before setting off on a tramp\u2014the way that hunters and trampers often behave, with total respect for their environment\u2014is now threatened. This bill assumes that everybody who is a freedom camper is also a polluter. That is just not fair. It is not correct. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI commend, however, the process undertaken by the Local Government and Environment Committee. It was rigorous. I pay tribute not just to the members on it but also to the officials. The officials worked really hard to pick up the points made by select committee members and by the submitters and to understand how solutions could be reached. They were not able to do that on every occasion, as is clear from the fact that Labour opposes this bill. But that was not for lack of trying. They worked really hard, and I commend them. It was an interesting process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis bill gives every district council and every Department of Conservation conservancy the ability to say that large parts of our country are no longer allowable for freedom campers\u2014a blanket ban. In fact, a district council could say that the whole of its district was no longer allowed to have any freedom camping in it. That is by anyone\u2019s stretch of the imagination, in my view, a step too far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e33c903c34e74dc2a1bfc32d3222116d\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: They couldn\u2019t do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284f0ffde358a4a858177d3fa3f2dbb37\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: They can do that. It is not likely that they would, but they could. That was certainly the conclusion that was reached during the select committee process. There are large parts of our country that can be excluded at the determination of a council\u2014that is correct. In my view, New Zealanders have the right to get out and pursue outdoor activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c588ba4605a24df6b06656ac83f507fd\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Read the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022049da63910e14b2291e54b1fcd820b12\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: The brains trust from west Auckland, who refuses to read any briefing papers on anything to do with evidence-based best practice on child abuse or social development, suggests that we read the bill. In my view, it should be up to the people who live in an area, pay their rates, and enjoy that activity to determine how their local area is designated, and that is not the case. So the select committee has released with its report back a minority report. That minority report makes it very clear that Labour recognises that there is a problem but believes it is one where less Draconian measures could be introduced and supported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIt would have been good, in my view, to have support from the whole of Parliament for these measures, giving a clear message to all our councils\u2014all our elected representatives on councils throughout the country\u2014that Parliament considered that there were appropriate means to progress these measures and protect our environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EBut I am not surprised that the councils said they were not sure they would be able to do that. Even Minister Wilkinson talked about how expensive it was for councils to put in toilet facilities. Well, part of the reason for that\u2014in fact, a large part of the reason for that\u2014is that the National Government has cut the subsidies that used to be available for, particularly, small district councils to put in toilet facilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThat subsidy used to be available to help them. It was seen as a partnership between central and local government, and the National Government was in for 5 minutes and flicked that partnership. It said to the district councils that they were on their own. Then the Minister comes in and says the councils will find it very hard, because it is very expensive to put in toilet facilities. So instead of putting in toilet facilities, the Government will ban freedom camping. This is New Zealand\u2014the country of the great outdoors\u2014where we are going to ban freedom camping rather than put in toilet facilities. There is now no assistance available at all for local authorities to put in toilet facilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EFor the benefit of the member who was screeching out earlier on and saying that that is not correct, I point out that the assistance was called the Sanitary Works Subsidy Scheme. It was in existence years ago\u2014actually, right up until 2\u00BE years ago\u2014and the National Government abolished it. The Government stopped the sort of practical help that would have enabled councils to better resource their facilities so that their environment was less likely to be polluted. I do not think it is such a big ask to have specific areas, which can be introduced and built on over time, so that we have better rubbish collection and better toilet facilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIn a nutshell, my view is that Steven Joyce may have been away from the Cabinet on the day this bill was put through by the Hon Nick Smith, because it clearly has not had the Crosby/Textor nanny State ruler run over it. It is the most Draconian bit of legislation I can remember seeing introduced to this House. The Hon Maurice Williamson is paling at the thought of being part of the introduction of nanny State legislation, but it is before him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESome of the emails I have had\u2014and there were a large number on this issue\u2014described this legislation as particularly abhorrent and as something that National should never consider. Another one expressed alarm that such a law was going to be passed\u2014that was from one of Nick Smith\u2019s constituents. Actually there were quite a few from his electorate. Somebody else said that he would be personally obliged if we could consider his approach and that an alternative would be to follow the approach Labour has suggested\u2014which is in our minority report\u2014because, he says, he is a strong believer in leadership and example, not burdensome legislation. The Hon Maurice Williamson will need smelling salts very shortly\u2014burdensome, abhorrent, nanny State legislation is being introduced by the National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EOne other comment I want to share with the House is from a man who is a bike rider and cycles all around the country; he will be well known to my colleague Kevin Hague, I am sure. He said: \u201CSome of my colleagues call this a nanny State bill.\u201D He said that that is not correct; it is a \u201Cjackboot State bill. I think that is a step too far.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223abb5fb305e849f9bf3686ae21dce6bb\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I think you should table these. Table the evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264af84b4ea174b45b1d0b8f1cb0fa0ef\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: If that member is implying dishonesty, then he should withdraw and apologise, particularly given his reputation and position. There were a large number of emails on this in addition to the submissions, and the point made by every single one of them was that they agreed with the need to protect our environment but they thought this bill was a step too far. The other concern they had was that it was being put through in a dickens of a rush, solely because of the Rugby World Cup timetable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIf we seriously expect we can solve these sorts of problems with no additional support for councils, with jackboot measures, nanny State measures, all in the name of supporting the Rugby World Cup, I believe that it will detract from our reputation, our clean green image, and our welcoming of people who want to enjoy our environment, rather than enhancing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002226425cb242b44d2caadb6e625a45a57b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226425cb242b44d2caadb6e625a45a57b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Not only is the Freedom Camping Bill important in protecting New Zealand\u2019s environment but it has served another very useful purpose. It has flushed out in this Parliament those who are the practical greens as distinct from those who are just the political greens. We have people on the Opposition benches who have raved on about water quality during their entire political careers and who cannot give a speech without mentioning the words \u201Cclean, green New Zealand\u201D, but when they are given the opportunity to actually do something practical about it, they want New Zealand to be the polluters\u2019 paradise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe Government says we need simply to give councils the practical laws to be able to control freedom camping. The Labour and Green Party Opposition members say they want to let it be free to continue. I wish members opposite would get out of the comfort of their offices and get out to real New Zealand, where some of our most precious spots are being used and abused. [Interruption] My question for the member who interjects, Sue Moroney, is what is \u201C100% Pure\u201D about the experience of stopping at a beautiful picnic spot on the banks of Lake Wakatipu, becoming overwhelmed with the smell of human sewage, and seeing toilet paper and human effluent all over the place and published from one end of the reserve to the other? Wake up, guys! That is not good for the New Zealand brand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EAll this bill does is let our councils and the Department of Conservation define where people can freedom camp, where they can camp subject to self-containment, and where they cannot. [Interruption] They cannot ban camping everywhere, I say to Mr Mallard. He is a former Minister for the Environment. He did not do anything about it. He received dozens of letters from councils asking him to move on this issue, but he did not do a thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESecondly, the presumption in this bill is that people can camp unless it is specifically restricted. The really crunchy provision in this bill is simply to introduce an instant fine, so that if someone is camping where they are specifically prohibited by the council from doing so, they can be subject to a fine. At the moment, if a council wants to prosecute, it costs the ratepayer or the taxpayer over $10,000 to initiate a prosecution. The part I cannot believe about the naivety of the Labour and Greens\u2019 opposition is this: they say the answer is just to build more public toilets. Well, I guess we can, and we should. But we will never be able to provide them everywhere. It is the ongoing view of the left that there is a bottomless pit of public money. The Government is simply saying we need to be practical. Councils need to be able to say that people cannot camp in some areas, and councils need the practical measures in order to be able to enforce it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe part I find most galling about Labour\u2019s and the Greens\u2019 opposition to this legislation is that they are simultaneously running campaigns demanding tougher rules on farmers and industry in relation to water quality. We have just adopted a national policy statement on water quality, and both parties opposite have said it is not nearly tough enough. This Government\u2019s view is that farmers will need to step up and improve their management of fresh water. That is why we have toughened compliance and doubled the fines for breaches of resource consents. But how will we get farmers to take on board this important message when they see the Government and councils ignoring overseas tourists dumping raw sewage in their backyard? The truth is that we cannot. We have to be consistent. We need to be equally firm in our measures to protect the Kiwi environment. The $200 instant fine is not at all out of proportion when a farmer now faces up to a $200,000 fine for breaching their resource consents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe last contradiction from members opposite that I must expose is the lack of trust they have in councils and the Department of Conservation. This is an empowering bill. The Department of Conservation and councils have good, practical people running them. They do not wish to kill off legitimate recreation any more than anyone else does. This is a practical Bluegreens bill that addresses a growing problem. It is needed in order to protect public health, protect iconic spots, and protect New Zealand\u2019s \u201Cclean, green\u201D brand. It poses no threat to the responsible freedom camper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI say to all members of this House that if they are serious about environment protection and if they do not think it is acceptable to dump raw sewage in some of our most iconic picnic spots, then they should do the right thing and support this practical bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022b763ab8ff2194c3eafb2074f2b9a6940\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b763ab8ff2194c3eafb2074f2b9a6940\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Freedom Camping Bill is typical of what the Minister for the Environment has brought to this House. It is a reactionary, political, posturing bill that attempts to get a few votes down in his own patch, because a few people have jumped up and down about it. The reality is that this bill will not address the problem we have across the country, because we have inadequate infrastructure. That is the fact of the matter. Hundreds of thousands of people travel around this country in cars each and every day, and when they stop at a rest stop\u2014or anywhere\u2014because there are no facilities they often use the bushes for a toilet. It is inappropriate and not what we want\u2014I accept that\u2014but this bill, which addresses just the issue of campervans staying overnight, is ridiculous. It will not address the problem we have here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe Tourism Industry Association went around the country looking at this issue, and it said: \u201Cstrong, clear and targeted camping information is the cornerstone for achieving responsible camping practices in New Zealand. Developing a culture of environmental care underpinned by national and local visitor-friendly information is the key to addressing this.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab020d097aec4acabb5b6929681a758e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d905525ff92c4e2e90f294c85f205a45\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: No, he is not. No, he is not doing that. That Minister has cut funding from the Department of Conservation. The Government has cut funding from the Sanitary Works Subsidy Scheme that assisted local councils to put facilities in place. It is absolutely\u2014I am not allowed to use the word, am I? No, no. There is an \u201Ch\u201D word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270fa4cbd-9380-4916-9f2a-78da059d220e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c5f817040724aa881757a8a2cf7178c\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. The member will not use a circumlocution to get around what he is trying to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c5eb8932b8342198b598f9e2eff3ccc\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. This jackboot Government has double standards in this area. There are a whole lot of issues that this bill will not address. I pointed to the number of people in cars. This bill will not help them. I was at a meeting the other day at which the local council person turned around to the Department of Conservation person and asked who will be policing this law. Who will be the poo police? Will it be the Department of Conservation, or will it be the local council? Can the Minister answer that? Who will be the poo police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022884889c04ec34701bab928ee77daa028\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: The bill makes it very clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244f01c86a28f4fc09234ae7f3f73b688\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, really? The bill makes it clear. Well, it is not known whether the cost will be to councils or the Department of Conservation, let alone the legal issues involved in trying to address it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI will finish because I do not want to carry on for too long. The main problem has been campervans dumping and emptying their tanks. That has been the major issue; it is not the little pile and the little bit of white paper. In fact, when people go to locations\u2014and I know many of them\u2014the issue is when campervans have dumped large amounts of effluent in one place. The people in the campervans most likely have not even stayed in that place. They most likely have not stayed in that place, but as they get towards the end of their trip, because there are an inadequate number of dumping stations for these campervans they often\u2014too often\u2014dump their effluent in inappropriate places. That is the problem, and this bill will not address that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220855633fdbb7441ab177507ef9778530\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eeb7e226d2404eec9babbd91f87ee5db\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no more than currently, where we have littering bills. I have to say that as much as I support the submitters who came along in good faith and said that this is an issue that needs to be addressed, the Government has cut funding to the organisations that should be implementing higher environmental standards, and it refuses to bring in a nationwide programme of up-rating, upgrading, and installing facilities to deal with the problem. This legislation is cheap posturing by that member who got on the front page of his local paper, saying what a wonderful bill it would be. Mark my words: in 3 years\u2019 time this legislation will not have addressed the issue of effluent up and down this country, because we have inadequate facilities. It is about time we got on and put them in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4221e59a9c349a28d27eb92f760b371\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4221e59a9c349a28d27eb92f760b371\u0022\u003EKEVIN HAGUE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to say it is a pleasure to take a call on the ridiculous Freedom Camping Bill, but, sadly, that is not the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI begin in the usual manner by thanking the officials who assisted the Local Government and Environment Committee considering this bill. I think those officials did a fantastic job under a lot of time pressure, but also under pressure from the extraordinarily tricky drafting tasks that were put in front of them. They did extremely well. Thanks also to the submitters. The submitters also made their submissions in a very tight time frame. We received a lot of thoughtful submissions, and a lot of submissions expressing quite different points of view. It is very difficult to reconcile some of the views that were expressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI note that the tightness of the time frame for submissions to be made and for the select committee to do its work has not been reflected in the bill coming back to the House for the second reading. I must say I had hoped that that reflected a difficulty for the Government in getting support for the bill from its confidence and supply partners, in particular the M\u0101ori Party and ACT Party. I am sorry to say it appears that that is not the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EThe Green Party, for its part, remains steadfastly opposed to the bill. We restate our position that although there is a genuine problem, this is the wrong approach to resolving that problem. In fact, we do not believe that this approach will resolve the problem. We welcome Labour\u2019s change of heart and its opposition to the bill in the second reading. We wish that other parties had also been prepared to re-examine their views. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EHaving said that we will continue to oppose the bill, I do thank the select committee itself because I think the committee did a very good job in trying circumstances. The bill that has come back to the House is considerably better than the diabolical mess and Draconian bill that the House was presented with at the first reading. I know that for many of those people who have been expressing strong opposition in emails to us, many of their fears will have been at least eased by the changes made by the select committee. I think that was very worthwhile, and I thank Mr Auchinvole, in particular, as the chair of the committee for his work in steering it through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EOne of the issues that continue to sit uneasily is the set of transition measures that are embedded in the bill, largely to deal with the concern that some people have that the Rugby World Cup will be an opportunity for the serially inappropriate in toileting habits to exacerbate the problem. The bill effectively grandfathers, for the period of the Rugby World Cup, the provisions that local bodies have already put in place. But it is critical for this House, for the general public, and for local authorities to understand that by doing so the bill does not confer any greater legal status on those by-laws than already existed. That is incredibly important, because the select committee received advice that it was quite likely that if existing by-laws were challenged, many of them would not stand up to scrutiny in court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EWe have a number of territorial local authorities, for example, that have imposed blanket bans on freedom camping throughout their districts, or that have made extensive restrictions on freedom camping. It is quite likely that those by-laws would not stand the test that a court would place on them. The law requires that any by-law must first result from genuine evidence of a real problem in a particular location, and, clearly, a blanket ban or an extremely extensive restriction would fail that test. The by-law has to be the best possible remedy that is available for that problem, and again that is highly contestable. The by-law almost must be proportionate to the size of the problem. So it is crucial that it is widely understood that the grandfathering of those provisions in this bill does not provide any protection for local authorities that have, in fact, illegal by-laws. That may be a very real problem for some of those local authorities in the months to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI will raise almost a philosophical question, and I have done so previously in the House: what is the best approach to changing behaviour that we consider to be undesirable? Clearly, there is a whole spectrum of possible approaches, from, at the one end, simply leaving the matter to free choice. There are people who simply believe that if everyone has absolutely free choice and is unhindered, then by a magical process the best outcomes will result. There are ways of skewing that by providing some incentives for different action. At the other end there are, I guess, regulatory approaches. It is a question of choosing the right approach for a particular situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI think there are lots of examples of inappropriate deregulation. I have been speaking about some of those in the House over recent months. For example, deregulation of the building industry resulted in leaky homes, deregulation of the finance industry resulted in the catastrophic loss of wealth for many New Zealanders, and deregulation of mine safety has at least arguably\u2014and I believe that it will be found to be the case\u2014resulted in even greater tragedy for at least 29 men on the West Coast, where I live. So deregulation, I believe, has clearly occurred in some circumstances where it was inappropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EWe have seen from this Government a particular fondness for deregulation. One of the first things it did when it came into office was to repeal the law that regulated biofuel requirements for fuel companies. It then immediately introduced its own approach, which was to provide some kind of subsidy. We clearly see nowadays, in the results, that that approach has been less effective in encouraging the development of biofuels. So it is a question of horses for courses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EWhat I have argued and what the Green Party has argued, both in this debate and at the first reading, is that the correct approach to this problem is to recognise that people want to do the right thing. We should use regulation where people are disinclined to do the right thing: where they want to do something different or they have incentives to do something different. In this case they have come to this country because of our clean, green image. They want to respect our environment. We need to assist them to do that, and the best way of doing that is through the provision of appropriate facilities and appropriate education. Colleagues have already spoken about the Sanitary Works Subsidy Scheme for those local authorities that cannot afford to put in extra toilets. That is exactly the right approach, because we all benefit from tourism in our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281e8ca24-8b1d-4558-9ef9-c9418df2b3c0\u0022\u003EI will make one brief comment about the comments of the Hon Dr Nick Smith. I think it is very sad and, indeed, worrying if the Minister for the Environment is unable to distinguish between the infinitesimal contribution that inappropriate toileters in campervans make to fresh water quality in this country and the disastrous impact of agricultural intensification that his failure to act on fresh water quality has resulted in. This is the wrong approach to this problem, it could have been dealt with in a much better way, and we encourage the Government still to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022 data-id=\u0022475fbd0e14f04b30a67c7977ff9622ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022475fbd0e14f04b30a67c7977ff9622ee\u0022\u003ERAHUI KATENE (M\u0101ori Party\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Manu K\u014Drero. I am really pleased to stand and speak to the second reading of the Freedom Camping Bill today. This bill rests upon the concept of freedom. It responds to the practice of freedom camping, which is when people camp away from sites that are recognised as camping grounds. Any legislative attempt to define or interpret the concept of freedom, whether or not it is in the context of camping, is of course asking for trouble. We are reminded of the challenge by Abraham Lincoln: \u201CThose who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves,\u201D. The question in this case is, however, not black and white, because the so-called freedom for tourists, whether they be international or domestic tourists, to pitch a tent, to park their caravan, or to drive their car, campervan, house truck, or any other type of vehicle on to a piece of land has brought with it adverse consequences for those living around the area, and particularly for mana whenua, who take very seriously their responsibilities for kaitiakitanga, for guardianship of tribal land. So I choose another interpretation of freedom, from Janis Joplin in the song \u201CMe and Bobby McGee\u201D, which says: \u201CFreedom\u2019s just another word for nothing left to lose.\u201D For what we have experienced with freedom camping in my electorate of Te Tai Tonga has a massive loss in terms of the way the litter of human waste has trampled on the mana of the local people and the special places in our rohe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EI first raised this issue over a year ago in March 2010 when I called on freedom campers to show respect, and for local business owners to inform manuhiri of the need to be careful with their rubbish and body waste. The problem of freedom camping has been particularly apparent in Te Wai Pounamu, no doubt because of our priceless beauty and our unique landscapes, which draw tourists to them in huge numbers. So we have frequently reported sightings of the freedom camper species in areas like Fiordland, Otago, Southland, West Coast, and Nelson-Marlborough. They have even been reported in major centres like Christchurch. To get an indication of the scale of the problem, at the top of the south, in Marlborough, complaints over irresponsible freedom camping increased from 80 in 2006 right up to 432 in 2009. Most complaints were about non - self-contained vehicles used by overseas visitors. At the other end of the motu in Queenstown, Department of Conservation staff monitored six sites with \u201CNo Camping\u201D signs during February to April 2010. Between one and four vans were found at each site visited. Human waste and toilet paper were common and widespread. The issue had erupted for me over the disrespect accorded Ng\u0101 Niho P\u0101, a traditional p\u0101 site in Kaik\u014Dura. The ultimate offence was shown when the so-called freedom campers were using this traditional p\u0101 site to empty their toilet waste. So, yes, from a basis of cultural integrity we certainly agree with the sentiment expressed in the lyrics that there is \u201Cnothing left to lose.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party will fight to the nth degree to protect and preserve Papat\u016B\u0101nuku, to prepare for our environment, and to care for our environment in any way befitting. So I have much pleasure in announcing that, in time for the second reading, I have released Supplementary Order Paper 266 to ensure that mana whenua are intimately associated with the monitoring, supervising, and decision making around the provisions to combat freedom camping. My amendment inserts a new clause 3A, \u201CTiriti o Waitangi\u201D. The clause notes: \u201CIn order to recognise and respect the Crown\u2019s responsibility to take appropriate account of the te Tiriti o Waitangi, local authorities and any person acting on behalf of local authorities must act in a way that is consistent with te Tiriti o Waitangi when exercising powers or performing functions under this Act.\u201D I think that it is really important when we consider any legislation that we consider what it means for tangata whenua as the indigenous peoples of this land, and a Treaty clause is a very clear way of being able to formalise intent into action. Acting in a Treaty-compliant manner will ensure consultation with iwi as an important means of protecting the integrity of the associated ecosystems together with the taonga contained within them for their own sake and for the benefit of future generations. We want to be assured that there will be robust and accountable work practices by local government and regional authorities when working with mana whenua. Taking appropriate account of the Treaty will mean that iwi who exercise a customary right over the associated lands will be automatically involved in the response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EWithin the terms of a kaupapa-driven economic framework, the M\u0101ori Party believes that kaitiakitanga becomes imbued with value in cultural, social, and economic terms. Within the terms of the Treaty, mana whenua will be involved in devising solutions to reduce the pressure on the environment and avoid long-term costs to future generations. In the case of this bill, the economic returns from the manifestation of kaitiakitanga are spelt out explicitly under the examples described as a strict liability offence. To name just a few, the offence of freedom camping is described as taking place when the flora or fauna is interfered with or damaged, or waste is deposited on to the area other than into a waste receptacle. But freedom camping is also considered an offence when individuals fail or refuse to leave conservation land when required to do so by an enforcement officer. It is about preventing unnecessary damage and destruction. Environmental protection becomes viewed as an inherent part of citizenship. We see the kaupapa achieving an economic value in that the long-term stewardship of the environment and ecosystems is most effectively provided by committed citizens, individually and collectively. Tangata whenua, in carrying out our obligations and duties to protect our primary ecosystems, are acting in ways that are necessary for future economic prosperity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2ee61-b3b9-4a89-bcc3-5b7be76c5825\u0022\u003EOf course, we all know the real reason this issue has suddenly appeared on the Order Paper is because of the Rugby World Cup, and the Government\u2019s anxiety to get our house in order before we prepare to welcome the crowds. I would rather that we were taking this action out of a genuine concern for the environment, but, notwithstanding my cynicism, we will be supporting this bill in the longer-term interests of the environment and the cultural integrity of our unique places.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022 data-id=\u0022f591bc36fb1347b1b760225b621756ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f591bc36fb1347b1b760225b621756ec\u0022\u003ECHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National\u2014West Coast - Tasman):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to give a brief presentation on the Freedom Camping Bill. I will begin, as have other speakers, by commending the work of the officials, by commending the contributions from submitters, and by thanking the members of the Local Government and Environment Committee for the way they handled this particular issue. It was done at some speed, but it certainly was not rushed. Something that never fails to impress me with the processes that we have in Parliament is that short-term submissions are none the less of high quality. We had high-quality submissions on this bill, and some high-quality work has been done by the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EI must say that I occasionally find myself wondering whether I had been to the same meeting as some of the people who have spoken in this debate. I find astonishing the range of interpretations that can be taken from the same subject by different members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EBasically, in my mind, this bill establishes three things. It establishes the rights of freedom campers and for everybody to engage in freedom camping. The bill certainly does not restrict that right; it creates it as the default position. Freedom camping is a right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EIt does create infringement notices. My colleague Kevin Hague said that the bill is a sledgehammer to crack a nut\u2014a phrase that was later taken by Phil Twyford, who said it was his phrase. In fact, that is the current situation, whereby if people wish to move campers on, they have to take them to court. The bill will create infringement notices that can be used by the Department of Conservation and by councils, and that is an interchangeable responsibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EThe bill allows the management of camping activity within 200 metres of a road. It is pretty much as simple as that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220bfa5b74-8933-458a-99d4-bbd75d9898d0\u0022\u003EComing from an area that benefits from 1.2 million bed-night visitors a year, I look forward to being down on the coast again shortly, once this bill has passed. I am sure we will be commended for the way it has been handled. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u00227d9b79e1f9134670ae8e218c98db2d23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d9b79e1f9134670ae8e218c98db2d23\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe. The Freedom Camping Bill went through the Local Government and Environment Committee. I am not a member of the committee, but I am Labour\u2019s spokesperson on tourism. I first of all want to give a plug for tourism, because that is basically what this bill is about. That is the industry this bill affects. Tourism is our biggest export earner. It is responsible for a huge slice of our GDP. One in 10 New Zealanders is employed in a tourism-related industry, so it is really important that we do what we can to support the tourism industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThere is a problem regarding freedom camping, and I can say that from personal experience up north. Just last year I attended a meeting in Kait\u0101ia where there were about 40-odd people who are involved in the tourism sector. I stood up and gave my little explanation, as I have just done now, about the benefits of tourism. I was quite stunned to hear a woman who lives in Waitaki, which is about 20 kilometres south of Cape Reinga, cut me off and say that tourists are a pain in the neck. She said they are a pain in the neck because they are dumping waste, litter, rubbish, human waste, and all sorts on the side of the road, next to creeks, and in rivers, and it is polluting our waterways. I was quite taken aback by that attitude towards tourism. So there is a need to do something, but I do not know whether the something that I am reading in this bill will change the problems that we have all around the various parts of Tai Tokerau and the rest of the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI was listening to the member for the West Coast - Tasman talking about infringement notices and about the ability of Department of Conservation personnel and councils to issue those infringement notices. There are so many highways, byways, and little nooks and crannies around the country that Department of Conservation workers and council workers will not be near. They will not go past them, so this problem will not be addressed whatsoever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EWe have to make the differentiation between whether it is the camping that is the problem or whether it is the disposal of the waste. As Damien O\u2019Connor said, there are these self-contained campervans whose occupants dump their waste in all parts of the country. Those people may not have even stayed overnight, but they wake up in the morning and find before they take the campervan back to the rental outfit that they have a full tank of waste that they have to get rid of or else they will be charged, so they just dump it anywhere. I am not sure that this bill will change that outcome, whatsoever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EMinister Smith said that what we need are practical solutions, and I wonder whether these practical solutions have been considered, at all. One of the problems is the lack of camping grounds. Some campers turn up in a self-contained or even a non - self-contained camper vehicle and go into a camping ground, but there is no space for them, so they have to go somewhere else. In Nelson, for example, which I visited one night, I went to a car park where by about 6.00 in the evening about 25 or 26 vehicles were parked up. The council had propped up a couple of Portaloos and a couple of rubbish bins for the waste. There is a problem, and why should the residents of Nelson have to put up with those campervans and the people who, if the Portaloos are full, jump in the bushes to do their business? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThere are other options. I wonder whether these practical solutions have been thought through. There may not be camping grounds everywhere and there may not be waste disposal facilities everywhere, but in most communities there are rugby clubs, sports clubs, schools, and marae. They have car parks and flat ground. With a bit of thought and a bit of ingenuity, such as local government entities working together with the tourism industry and schools, sports clubs, and marae, there could be the potential to improve the facilities at those organisations. The septic tanks could be improved, as could the ablution blocks and showers. I would say that a number of marae might quite possibly welcome the idea of getting funding from their local authority to improve their ablution blocks so that they could be improved for the people of the marae as well as for the tourism industry. They could quite possibly make a buck from it, as well. So if we are talking practical solutions, I wonder whether everything has been explored. I am not sure that it has. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThere is also the option or possibility that the people driving around in their campervans do not actually know where the next set of public facilities is. I wonder again whether there is enough information for tourists when they go to book or hire their vehicles. Do they have enough information to know that if they are in a particular place in the country, it is 15 kilometres to the next public facility where they can dispose of their waste or go to the toilet? I think that a number of things really have not been totally thought through, and that the $200 fine for infringement has been the solution for something that I think is a bit broader than just pinging people who happen to park their campervans in the main street of a town when they should not do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThere is also the idea in Labour\u2019s minority report that we could phase out non - self-contained rental vehicles over a period of time. We were not saying they should be phased out in the next 5 minutes, or even the next 5 years; we said that as the vehicles come to the end of their lifespan and have to be replaced they should be replaced by something that is self-contained. I thought that that was a sensible idea that should have been looked at, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EWhen we talk to the people in the tourism industry we hear them say that the infrastructure to support tourism in New Zealand is lacking. It goes back to what I said about local authorities buying in to the concept that tourism is so important to their local economies, and that the tourism industry and local authorities should be working together to create facilities. If I am driving north, I swear there is not a toilet north of Whangarei that I myself would really want to stop at. From Whangarei up to Cape Reinga is close to a 5-hour drive, yet there is nothing really there, in between, except for an odd place\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c0eba1d-17a6-44e2-a9b3-2e2535339570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baebb0adfa13482092b105bee34da7ae\u0022\u003EHon Pete Hodgson\u003C/span\u003E: Kawakawa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294cbf44476f9476ba7ee4b75971180fe\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Kawakawa. Sorry, I forgot my own home town with the Hundertwasser toilets. Oh, gee whiz! This is about local government working for and valuing tourism, and making sure that there are the facilities that campers can utilise. It is also unclear where the next service station is that has disposal facilities for the self-contained tanks of camping vehicles, and I think that that needs to be highlighted, as well, in tourist information, so that tourists do not have to drive 30 kilometres to dispose of their waste, when there could be something a heck of a lot closer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThis Government cut the Sanitary Works Subsidy Scheme, and that is a shame. It gave a subsidy for small communities to put in place toilet facilities and dump stations, but that scheme has gone, and now there is no assistance, at all. That is a shame because it could have mitigated this whole problem of the waste that is disposed of by people freedom camping. I do not think it is the camping itself that is the problem; I personally believe that it is the disposal of the waste. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a9688ce0ed24a62971ccf41c861bb96\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. Those of that opinion will say Aye; to the contrary, No. The Ayes have it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022085c8ed3254d40f9b8e5fca2bbcc0ec8\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: The Noes have it. Party vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022aef19b348d1b4176aa0777f72c49021b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aef19b348d1b4176aa0777f72c49021b\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have made it very clear that when a vote is called, the party vote must be asked for at the time. If the member wants to cast a party vote, he or she must indicate that quickly. If the member wishes for that, he will have to seek leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u00224184ad47333247cb8e15e1568554c6c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224184ad47333247cb8e15e1568554c6c7\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Deputy Speaker, I did; you must not have heard it. I seek leave to record a party vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1fa9f3ad0e949579c436010a7d9f7f2\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought to record a party vote. Is there any objection? There is no objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022815d0428ac5347f69c2f3466a7a02a87\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Freedom Camping Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 65\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 40; Green Party 8; Progressive 1; Independent: Carter C.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e1e999a2d52a480b9e8f7bc28ac55603\u0022\u003EEducation Amendment Bill (No 4)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e00402d04b2147cfa932b96eb1c7714a\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022adf3ddfb832a450a93ec25d53dcdf8d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adf3ddfb832a450a93ec25d53dcdf8d9\u0022\u003EHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Tertiary Education):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Education Amendment Bill (No 4) be now read a second time. I would like to thank the members of the Education and Science Committee for their prompt consideration of this complex and technical bill. I also wish to thank those individuals who, and organisations that, made submissions. The select committee carefully considered the submissions and made some changes to improve the bill. The Education Amendment Bill (No 4) has three objectives: firstly, to increase transparency and accountability in the tertiary education system by enabling the regulation of compulsory student services fees; secondly, to facilitate the expansion of international education by establishing the new Crown agency Education New Zealand; and, thirdly, to improve regulation of the tertiary education system by updating and reinforcing the New Zealand Qualifications Authority\u2019s legal arrangements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe committee has made amendments to clarify the accountability arrangements for the use of compulsory student services fees. These clarifications make it clear that the Minister for Tertiary Education can give a direction listing the categories of student services an institution may use the compulsory fee for, and that the fee fixed by tertiary institutions is limited to covering services from within those categories only. I have considered the minority view that does not support the proposed changes to compulsory student services fees. We know that changes are needed, given that compulsory fees across universities increased 102 percent between 2009 and 2010. Therefore, I consider that the provisions in the bill are necessary to improve the accountability and transparency of student services fees by ensuring that students are consulted on the categories and levels of compulsory fees, and that institutions adequately report on how those fees are used. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe bill establishes a new Crown agency for international education to drive growth and innovation in this important sector. The committee has made some minor changes to those provisions. First, the committee has clarified that the Minister can give only terms of reference on the topics that the stakeholder advisory committee may advise the board on, rather than specifying the content of that advice. The original specificity was unintended. Second, the committee removed the general exemption for Education New Zealand from the Commerce Act 1986. It has provided for Education New Zealand to seek exemptions on a case-by-case basis instead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe bill strengthens the regulation of private training establishments. These changes include raising the threshold for private training establishment registration and giving the New Zealand Qualifications Authority greater powers to deal with non-compliance. The committee made a number of technical changes that will improve the practical application of the new regulatory regime. The bill also modernises the legal arrangements of the authority. The committee made a number of technical changes, as well as requiring that an officer inspecting a private training establishment must provide a list of all documents removed and return the originals unless this would prejudice any investigation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EThe committee supported changing the legal name of Career Services to Careers New Zealand. Careers New Zealand will provide leadership, co-ordination, and resources to the groups involved in influencing career decisions. The name change reflects the organisation having a wider focus as a national leader in the careers sphere. The Government intends to support the amendments recommended by the majority of the committee, including the Career Services amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EAt the appropriate time I will be moving a Supplementary Order Paper addressing two aspects of the New Zealand Qualifications Authority\u2019s new legal arrangements. First, the scope of the authority\u2019s rule-making powers regarding the use of standards in degrees and postgraduate qualifications needs to be clarified. Second, under the bill as currently drafted the authority has duplicate powers to impose conditions on consents to assess against standards. That was unintended and should be corrected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a244152-977c-48d2-bf53-4f3a369a27a9\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, this bill will improve the transparency of, and accountability for, tertiary education in New Zealand. It will also support the growth of our international education sector and ensure that our reputation as a provider of high-quality education continues. I now commend the Education Amendment Bill (No 4) to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022 data-id=\u002289886e81147548209747a0a89f5e970e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289886e81147548209747a0a89f5e970e\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the Education Amendment Bill (No 4) and to say at the outset that Labour supports this bill because what it does is, in the main, sensible. Certainly the 102 percent increase in student levies from universities and polytechnics over the course of 2009 and 2010 is of great concern to Labour. It also shows the Government that there is a squeeze on tertiary education funding. I hope the Minister does understand that this has been the reaction of tertiary institutions to the underfunding that has happened right across the education system, but which in this instance is clearly visible in what is happening to the tertiary education system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EThe attempt by the institutions to significantly increase student levies has been their response to the squeeze on funding that has come from the Government in the area of tertiary education. So although this is one aspect of what needs to occur in order to safeguard dramatic increases for students in the levies being imposed on them by tertiary institutions, I hope the Government is under no illusion that this will solve the problem. The problem, of course, is that institutions were starting to use and to increase the student levy to pay for things that previously have been paid for by Government funding. That is the fundamental problem here, and I hope the Government is under no illusion that by passing this bill it has fixed the problem; it has not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI guess in supporting this bill I want to point out that Labour has a concern about another bill that is proceeding through this Parliament at the same time, which we think causes great concern. If we combine the two, we can see that students will be the people who miss out. The bill I am referring to is the Education (Freedom of Association) Amendment Bill, although\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de65d427460947c59a614d46ec8b4587\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not part of this debate. Remember, this is a second reading speech, and the member can concentrate only on the purpose and contents of the bill. The member must come back to this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264927ac6b94f414bbf8ed192fbed72c6\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274d03749a2a343e6b17a84a76151bdd3\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There is no point of order. I have ruled. This debate is on the bill\u2019s second reading. It is not a first reading debate. The member must concentrate on the second reading of the bill as reported back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fedd4ff0c4914b71b8cdad2e047dabf0\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: What I want to raise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233ba69be7e5448c9910a44b5e5966c0e\u0022\u003ETodd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: The problem is the member hasn\u2019t read the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff93dc05ac6d4e9bb2b7ebcb9dd82d68\u0022\u003ESUE MORONEY\u003C/span\u003E: The member over there, who seems to be the brightest spark that National can come up with, may be a bit confused. When bills work in tandem they have an impact on students in that regard. Here is what the Government is doing. On the one hand, the Government is saying to tertiary institutions that they cannot increase the levy for students. But on the other hand, it is trying to diminish the role of student unions in their institutions so that they can no longer provide the services on those same campuses\u2014if that is the plural of campus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EWhat is happening is that the Government is putting itself in a position with this legislation and another piece of legislation whereby the combined effect will be that student services will suffer. If those services are no longer being provided by student unions because they are collapsing under the weight of other legislation put through by this Government, and the university chooses to pick up those services, this legislation gives the Minister the right to come along and stop the institution from asking for a contribution from students towards providing those services. The net result will be that those services will not continue to be provided for students. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003ESo I think it is important that the Government understands the impact of not only this bill but also its combined effect with another bill it is supporting at the moment. Yet Labour is prepared to support this bill, because by itself it makes sense\u2014by itself it makes sense. In combination with another bill that Labour will not support, and does not support, it puts student services at risk and that will put student education at risk, academic achievement at risk, the future productivity of this country at risk, and all of the things that go with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI will not take up too much more time on this bill, because, as I said, Labour supports it. The bill supports greater transparency and accountability in the setting of student levies. They did increase hugely in 2010, under this Government. Please understand that it was not just by pure accident that that happened; it happened because of the funding squeeze that came on to the tertiary sector. The bill also establishes a new Crown agency in charge of export education, and it introduces stricter requirements for the registration of private training establishments in order to stamp out growing qualification fraud in this sector, and we wish to support that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2567d3e-a09c-47b4-bd50-2f5bb4049762\u0022\u003EI look forward to seeing the Supplementary Order Papers that the Minister for Tertiary Education referred to in his speech, when we come to the Committee stage, because, as a member of the select committee, the issues he raised with regard to the New Zealand Qualifications Authority were not issues that were put before the select committee for our deliberation. So I look forward to seeing the content of those Supplementary Order Papers when we reach the Committee stage, so that we may make a decision on whether to support those, as well. Labour supports this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022 data-id=\u002274b67fba37634169a36629c57cb2c00f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022749d97b8-a772-4227-83da-b5e264c37bc0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274b67fba37634169a36629c57cb2c00f\u0022\u003EALLAN PEACHEY (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E The Minister for Tertiary Education clearly outlined the provisions and the intentions of the Education Amendment Bill (No 4). I do not feel any need to reiterate those. I want to make two comments, if I may. The first is that as chair of the Education and Science Committee that held the hearings and reported back to the House, I want to endorse the Minister\u2019s comments about the work of the select committee and express my appreciation to all members for their contribution. The second thing I want to do is welcome Labour\u2019s support for this legislation. It is good legislation, it will improve tertiary education, it will improve international education, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b18bee6f01194aa28719b7d2d58f98f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b18bee6f01194aa28719b7d2d58f98f8\u0022\u003EKELVIN DAVIS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Being a recent member of the Education and Science Committee, I would like to acknowledge the chair, Allan Peachey, for the great job he does. I find him to be a very fair and reasoned chairperson, who gives us the opportunity to express our views. I appreciate that from the chairperson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ELabour supports the Education Amendment Bill (No 4). It will do a lot of good. It will improve things in education. I would particularly like to focus on careers. I do not think there is enough emphasis on careers in New Zealand education, in particular the transition between secondary schools and tertiary education, and from tertiary education into employment itself. I do not think we can overemphasise the need for career advice and guidance in schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI was surprised to see that despite inflation running at about 5 percent, student levies increased over 2010 by 102 percent. That is outrageous, so any moves to cap that are very welcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe export education provisions in this bill are interesting. It is basically about representing New Zealand as an educational destination to students overseas. I think there need to be measures on that, and it will benefit New Zealand and New Zealand education. I did say in the first reading that we need to be careful that we do not forget our own home-grown students by overemphasising the fact that we want to attract foreign students to New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EIn respect of the part of the bill concerning private training establishments, I think that making sure we protect the integrity of those institutions is very important. There have been instances of qualifications basically being sold and the falsification of results, which is unacceptable at any level of the education system, be it at primary school, at secondary school, or in the tertiary sector and private training establishments. We have to move to protect the integrity of those institutions, as I have said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI return to student levies. I endorse what my colleague Sue Moroney said about them. Student levies are used in institutions to provide services for students, and those services are being jeopardised by another bill that is going through the House. We have to make sure that students have the support that they need\u2014emotional, social, and health\u2014to get through their studies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe funding squeeze in tertiary education has forced institutions to look elsewhere for funding, and that is why student levies have risen at such an extraordinary rate\u2014for example, there have been increases of up to 600 percent at Canterbury University. That is just not on, especially given that the rising cost of living, as we know, is putting pressure on students\u2019 budgets everywhere, as is the cost of gas, the cost of food\u2014the cost of everything. The price of tertiary education has risen 18 percent since National took office, and out-of-control student levies are just one of the causes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ELabour is supporting this bill. We look forward to the Committee stage. Again, I acknowledge the members of the Education and Science Committee. I have been a member of that committee for a very brief time, and much of that time was interrupted by unsuccessfully contesting a by-election. However, it has been a pleasure to work with all committee members. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u00229d102bbd55c94ea28bf1fad1a95c505c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d102bbd55c94ea28bf1fad1a95c505c\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Deputy Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. It is great to be discussing education issues in this Chamber, but I have been struck by the lacklustre debate we have been hearing. There is no passion from any of the members. It seems as if they are not interested in the Education Amendment Bill (No 4). Education is vital to our future as a country, as a people, and as an economy. My vision is for an education system that sets up our young Kiwis, be they in primary school, at university, or at a polytechnic, so that we can deliver a smart economy. I was just looking out of my office window today at all those logs on the Wellington waterfront. Why are we still exporting raw logs in 2011? Why are we not using our smarts to turn them into high-value wood products? Why are we not leveraging that clean, green brand and building a smart economy? Although it is good to be discussing education in this Chamber, this bill is about tinkering. This bill is not visionary, and it will not bring about the big changes we need to really deliver a smart economy and smart people. But here we are; we have this bill to debate today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI first acknowledge the submitters to the Education and Science Committee. There were not a huge number of them, but I acknowledge them. I acknowledge the officials, the chairman of the committee, and other members who heard the submissions on the select committee. I also acknowledge them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThis bill does a number of things\u2014for example, it strengthens the regulation of private training establishments. It gives the Minister of Education more power to issue directives to tertiary providers about how they charge the student services levy. It establishes the new Crown agent, Education New Zealand, to replace three former agencies, and, lastly, it makes it easier for the Ministry of Social Development to administer student allowances by giving the ministry the power to request enrolment information. Much of that is not controversial, at all. The Green Party could support these mostly common-sense or beneficial clauses and parts to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EBut the fact is that the Green Party will not be supporting this legislation, because of what we see in clauses 25 to 29, which are the student service levy clauses. I will outline why the Green Party is opposed to these clauses, why we would have liked these clauses to be removed, and why there are good reasons they should have been removed. Then we could have had the whole Parliament voting for what would have been a pretty good, common-sense, and non-controversial bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe reasons why the Green Party is opposed to these clauses is that no evidence was presented that there is a significant problem of rising fees, or that this situation will continue into the future, but we acknowledge there have been recent rises that have been significant. But, of course, both parties are avoiding the real issue. Why are we seeing student service fees rising so high? The reason is that Governments, whether red or blue, have both failed to properly fund tertiary education, and have put in place policies, like the fee maxima, that have been good on one side but that have meant that institutions have had to go out and get revenue sources in other ways, like having student fees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe bill gives Steven Joyce, Minister for Tertiary Education, far too much power to issue directives on what institutions can do. The Green Party supports greater autonomy for our tertiary institutions. Through this legislation we will see a worse outcome for our students. Clauses 25 to 29 give the Minister power to direct, via regulation, the categories of student services that the institution may make available. The council of the institution must ensure that any fees fixed under the schedule relate only to the types of student services that fall within those categories. In a nutshell, the Minister will be deciding what categories of services independent institutions can charge their students for, and fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is concerned about rising fees. We do not think that rises of up to 600 percent at Canterbury University are on. Some rises have been significant. But we heard from the officials on the regulatory impact statement. They said quite clearly that there is no indication that recent rises will be the norm. I looked at the Auckland University submission, which states: \u201CThe Bill as presented seeks to address a number of \u2018problems\u2019 that do not exist and even if they were to exist, would be capable of efficient and inexpensive resolution without the need for the approaches suggested in this Bill.\u201D If we look at the submission from Victoria University, we see that it says this bill is about \u201Csecond guessing\u201D the university\u2019s roles and responsibilities to its students, and it questions the independent ministerial powers. There is no evidence that we need legislation to deal with the problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe fact is that the bill avoids the real issue: why institutions feel they have to keep raising student fees. It is the lack of funding by this Government and the last Government, it is the fee maxima policies, and it is the fact that the budget for tertiary education has not grown by a cent under the National Government, yet we know that inflation is rising by 20 percent\u2014the highest increase in 21 years. We are seeing a country that spends $3,000 less than the OECD average on our students, yet Australia, which we are apparently trying to catch in terms of economy and performance, has poured $5.7 billion extra into its tertiary sector. We have put no extra money into ours, which has required institutions to raise their fees. There is no need for this law, as it fails to address the real problem, and the legislation gives the Minister for Tertiary Education, Steven Joyce, far too much power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI believe that clauses 25-29 are in contradiction of Part 14 of the Education Act, which gives institutions institutional independence. National when in Opposition railed on about the nanny State and the perils of regulation and red tape coming from the last Government, but here it is now in Government and deciding to put regulatory powers on the shoulders of one man, for him to decide who should levy fees on students, what fees should be levied, and how they should be levied. At the same time that we are debating another bill that we cannot name in this Chamber\u2014ostensibly in the name of student choice and student freedom\u2014here is the National Government, supported by Labour, telling students how their student fees will be raised, and what fees can and cannot be used for. If that is not nanny State, then I do not know what is\u2014the Government telling institutions what they can spend their own money on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn the environment of the legislation that cannot be named in this Chamber, we are seeing that students associations are going to collapse, and we are seeing the need for agreements to be signed between institutions and students associations, as is the case now at Auckland University. That puts a serious constraint on their funding ability, and the fact is that the vast majority of these services are critical to a good university environment, critical to good pastoral care of our students, and, ultimately, critical to good educational and economic outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe Greens support greater openness and transparency, and greater student involvement in setting student levies, but, again, that is being left up to regulations and there is no detail in this bill. We think that that should have been enshrined in this legislation, to make sure the principles of openness and transparency will be delivered by the Minister. Again, so many parts of this bill have been left up to regulation. We are writing the Minister a blank cheque to decide what he sees fit to do with students\u2019 money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWhat we have is a problem that both the regulatory impact statement and most institutions in their submissions say does not exist. The bill goes against the institutional independence that we hold dear in our institutions. It will see worse outcomes for students. It avoids the real issue, and I say once again that it puts too much power on the shoulders of one man, the Minister for Tertiary Education. At a time when we desperately need education in order to provide a boost to our economy and our society, we are seeing the underfunding of tertiary education, fewer places being provided, more expensive services, and reduced access for students aged over 55. The Government has made shocking, retrospective, punitive decisions that will rule out literally thousands of students, because it has made changes that will apply from 2 years ago and has raised entry requirements. In a sense we are seeing a whole bunch of barriers to better tertiary education outcomes. We are seeing tertiary education in New Zealand becoming less accessible, less affordable, and in some cases downright impossible, as the Government closes the door. That is why the Green Party opposes this bill. We would have preferred to see clauses 25-29 removed; then we could have seen all of Parliament voting for the bill. As it stands, this bill is not needed, is avoidable, and ignores the real issues facing our sector. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddaa1f28eab8414d935c56370e9d2696\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddaa1f28eab8414d935c56370e9d2696\u0022\u003ECOLIN KING (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to rise and speak in the second reading of the Education Amendment Bill (No 4). I too congratulate the chairman, Allan Peachey, and other members of the Education and Science Committee on the diligent way they worked on this very important legislation. This legislation really will improve our tertiary education system. Let us consider the aspects of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EExport education contributes $2 billion to the New Zealand economy. On that basis, one can begin to understand how important this legislation is to improve and enhance the reputation of New Zealand. The New Zealand Qualifications Authority is long overdue to be modernised and improved. The evidence that has been mentioned in the House today about student fees shows that they need to be brought under control. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EI draw the attention of the Green Party member to the work that was done at the select committee to adjust the powers of the Minister for Tertiary Education. In actual fact, new section 227A(1)(b), inserted by clause 26, contains a lot of work that was rewritten. The select committee took on board the comments and views of the members of that select committee and adjusted the bill. All the Minister can do now is advise and direct; he cannot tell those institutions what to do. So I think the Green member was well out of order in talking the way he did. I will leave that issue there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ffff330f-1757-41d6-9973-25244f0fdada\u0022\u003EThe other point that is quite interesting inside the legislation is that with changing, modernising, and improving there are always transitional arrangements. In Part 2 a lot of work was done to improve the transitional arrangements. There are organisations that are delivering training at the moment that will be affected by the bill. Provided they react appropriately within the legislation, within a 12-month time frame, they will be able to continue to do what they do. So it is very good legislation. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u0022394c77d1497641688bb46bf25cf80850\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022394c77d1497641688bb46bf25cf80850\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to say that we support the Education Amendment Bill (No 4), but we have some concerns about the powers that the bill gives to the Minister for Tertiary Education. For all that Government members say this bill is just a tidy-up and that it looks at strengthening the New Zealand Qualifications Authority and the regulations around private training establishments, there are aspects of the way that the Minister has put some squeezes on the tertiary education sector that we are really worried about. There is a certain irony that we are debating this bill a week after we debated at length the impact of voluntary student membership on universities and students and the effect that will have on student participation and student input into the tertiary sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EWhen we are considering a bill that looks at fee-setting mechanisms and transparency, it is absolutely critical that, first, students have the capacity to be consulted, and then, second, have a voice back to the ruling council about a fee-setting mechanism. That will be taken away, because there will be no students associations around the country, and that really worries me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EAlong with the funding cuts that have happened, we have also seen funding cuts in Adult and Community Education and all those other portals that allow access into learning and lifelong learning that are so critical. I come from an area where second-chance education means such a lot, so why the cuts there? It is the union that helps those adult learners to know the range of services they can access, and what is a fair fee-setting mechanism, and those opportunities will be taken from the polytech sector, which I am more familiar with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI am worried that Mr Joyce has already cut $145 million from industry training. We have seen the number of people in industry training drop by 30,000, and that worries me, and there is a 10 percent drop in Modern Apprenticeships. I have had meetings with our polytech in Rotorua, and the staff there said they could have taken many more students but for the funding cuts and the cap that has been put on student numbers. I find that irresponsible from a Minister who then comes to the House and says he believes in transparency and in tidying up the loose ends of a sector. Tidy up the loose ends of a sector, and do it in a transparent way. That is why we are supporting this bill to select committee\u2014so that we can hear back from various sectors that will be impacted on and they can give us their views in a proper select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003ELabour will be supporting this bill, but I do not think this is just a pro forma bill, tidying up aspects of the tertiary education sector, at all. One aspect I am happy to see\u2014but again there is a delicious irony in the fact that some Crown entities are being forced together today\u2014is the establishment, I understand, of a new industry group to look at export education. For all that is needed, I wonder about the timeliness of that, when such constraints are being put on public sector service delivery. I think there are some rather odd messages coming from the Minister\u2019s tabling of this bill in the House, but because we believe in democracy and community participation in this so-called non-controversial bill we will support it to select committee, to allow the select committee process and submissions. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5d3dd608cd84443b9a44e7e240c1109\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5d3dd608cd84443b9a44e7e240c1109\u0022\u003ELOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to be able to speak in this second reading of the Education Amendment Bill (No 4). It is fairly obvious that the speaker before me, Steve Chadwick, has no knowledge of this bill, because it has actually been to the Education and Science Committee, and come out. So it was a bit of a bother to realise the ignorance of some of the members on the other side, who do not even understand where this legislation is in the process. We have had a full select committee process. We have had a great level of scrutiny on the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI will focus on one of the parts of the legislation that has not been touched on a lot today, and that is the unleashing of the export potential of our international education. That is one of the key differences between the Opposition and this side of the House: this side of the House is focused on where we can gain more export dollars. This bill is about taking the handbrake off a section of our education that is doing extraordinarily well overseas, and getting rid of some of the braking that is currently stopping its ability to grow and therefore bring in much-needed export money to this country. That is why this bill is so fantastic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EOn the one hand the legislation is providing opportunities for us as a country to earn more, but on the flip side it is also saying that we have to make sure that the spending that goes into tertiary education is as effective as possible. So the bill is tightening up provisions to make sure that the tertiary institutions that get significant funding from the Government are using that money wisely. In particular, with the student services fees, the bill is giving students more opportunity to provide some views about how those fees should be spent and the level at which they should be set. Common feedback that has come back, particularly from Canterbury University, says that those fees have been increased without the ability for students to have an input in terms of how that money is being spent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ETo again correct the member who spoke previously, I tell the House that in terms of what is happening with export education, three organisations currently do the work in relation to international education. We are simplifying that by making sure that one agency is responsible for that work, rather than having three agencies tripping over themselves and still getting it wrong. That is what the international education industry wants. That is what will allow New Zealand to grow our international education and to grow our export income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI am very pleased to support this bill. It is one that has two focuses: first, of bringing money into the country, and, second, of making sure that the money being spent in tertiary education is spent as effectively as possible. As well, the bill is lifting the number of places to be available in tertiary institutions\u201411,600 more core places\u2014without more money being spent. So there will be better, more effective use of money in tertiary education, while students will also be given the opportunity to have input and be consulted by their institutions about how their student services fees are set. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c2652ce31a5844f099208b75d6d02c7e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments recommended by the Education and Science Committee by majority be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 104\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 57; New Zealand Labour 38; ACT New Zealand 5; M\u0101ori Party 2; Progressive 1; United Future 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 7\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party 6; Independent: Carter C.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EQuestion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000408\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b7cd34ecdee046caa4f51a1f3d5c23b3\u0022\u003EDomestic Violence Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b7cd34ecdee046caa4f51a1f3d5c23b3\u0022\u003ECare of Children Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b7cd34ecdee046caa4f51a1f3d5c23b3\u0022\u003EAdoption Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002290fd1898b62a4b99907871fb1e20fbe8\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u00224b3c3d5a912342b7aed636aba9f92a0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b3c3d5a912342b7aed636aba9f92a0e\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (Associate Minister of Justice)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Justice: I move that the Child and Family Protection Bill be now read\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022893adc11-ce4e-419c-a079-08f04b3d75f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223800076e8f464718a5a3d71fad1abd31\u0022\u003EMr DEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I am sorry; that is not Government order of the day No. 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022202d88b0ff37490baaf164c3653d3460\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Domestic Violence Amendment Bill (No 2), the Care of Children Amendment Bill, and the Adoption Amendment Bill be now read a third time. Despite a comprehensive set of laws designed to protect children and families from violence and abuse, New Zealand continues to have very high rates of domestic violence. The Government is committed to addressing the underlying factors that contribute to these high rates, as well as doing what we can to protect victims of domestic violence under the law. We have already taken action to ensure that perpetrators are held more accountable for their behaviour, through the introduction of on-the-spot police safety orders within our first year of office. This legislation is the next step in delivering on the Government\u2019s commitment to strengthening the domestic violence prevention regime, and increasing the protection of victims, particularly children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhen the child of a protection order applicant continues to live at home after the age of 17, they will now continue to benefit from the applicant\u2019s protection order. In the unfortunate event of an applicant\u2019s death, it will now be clear that their children and other protected people will continue to be covered by the applicant\u2019s protection order. The legislation also means that there will no longer be any opportunity for a lapse to occur between a temporary protection order and a final protection order. Administrative barriers to respondents\u2019 engagement in programmes for stopping violence will also be minimised. Disputes over contact with children will be resolved earlier, as parents will have an early opportunity to review care and contact arrangements after a temporary protection order is made. This will help to focus on the best interests of the child. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe passage of this legislation will also ensure further consistency between the Domestic Violence Act and the Care of Children Act with regard to psychological abuse. The principal section of the Care of Children Act will adopt the definition of \u201Cviolence\u201D used in the Domestic Violence Act, clarifying that all forms of violence include physical, sexual, and psychological abuse, and also include indirect and direct abuse. When a protection order has been made against one party to a parenting order application, including on the grounds of psychological abuse, the court will not grant that party care or unsupervised contact with the child unless the court is satisfied that the child will be safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe bill will also make it easier for a parent to obtain an order preventing the removal of a child from New Zealand. By making these orders more flexible, it is hoped that parents who might otherwise have been deterred will be encouraged to seek such an order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EFinally, the legislation will help to protect children from economic and sexual exploitation, by the creation of a new offence in the Adoption Act of improperly inducing consent to an adoption. This new offence will enable New Zealand to finally ratify the second Optional Protocol to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child on the sale of children, child prostitution, and child pornography, 10 years after the previous Government signed it. This ratification is also timely for a number of other reasons. One is the impending examination of New Zealand\u2019s third and fourth consolidated report to the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child. Ratifying the second optional protocol will also fulfil one of the commitments that the Minister of Justice made on behalf of the New Zealand Government to the United Nations Human Rights Council as a result of its universal periodic review in Geneva in May 2009. The ratification will demonstrate the Government\u2019s strong support for the protection of children\u2019s rights in an area that is of global concern. I commend these bills to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8c1ebb9995e4e0eb1e9c289cee4f6a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8c1ebb9995e4e0eb1e9c289cee4f6a7\u0022\u003ESU\u2019A WILLIAM SIO (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to rise to make a contribution on behalf of the Labour Opposition, and to support the legislation arising from the Child and Family Protection Bill. Labour agrees with the intent of the legislation. We agree with the intent of providing more protection for children who are victims of domestic violence, and of ensuring that the Family Court can manage proceedings involving children appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI am one of the fortunate members of the Social Services Committee, which has over the past 3 years had the opportunity to listen to the various experiences that have been shared with us by members of our community working on the ground in this field. I myself and members of that committee have been involved in a process whereby we have looked at what is happening with our young people. We have had the opportunity to visit some of the homes, facilities, and community groups who are engaged in that activity. We cannot simply deny that we have a problem. We do have a problem, but I hope this Government will not simply hold out bills, such as the ones we are now passing, and say \u201CThere\u2019s the answer. These are going to be the solution to our problems.\u201D I have to say that although these bills are a step in the right direction, more needs to be done on the ground.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EMembers may recall that when this Government first arrived in office and took over power in this country, it shouted from the rooftops that it would put every bad kid in jail. In fact, there was a debate about the validity of boot camps, and whether they would achieve what we were wanting to achieve\u2014that is, not only to protect children from domestic violence but to ensure that they had every opportunity to succeed in the future in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EOf late the Social Services Committee has had the opportunity to travel to Australia and look at the experience of the Australian Parliament, as well as at groups and various courts systems. I came away heartened that rehabilitation programmes work when the community is being engaged with on a regular basis. I came away heartened that one of the fundamental lessons that the Australian public and the Australian Government have learnt is that prison is a last resort. We should not be so gung-ho, so to speak, that every time some young person does something wrong we simply throw them in jail and throw away the key. That is not the way forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EIn terms of our experiences with community groups working on the ground throughout the length and breadth of this country, we have heard some awful stories. I have to say that I have now gained an understanding about why some young men and young women are on the streets prostituting themselves. It is because of the kind of abuse, sexual and physical, that they have often received at the hands of people who are supposedly loved ones\u2014members of their families. We also have to remember that that is not the case for every household in this country. I think that often we become so focused on the bad that we forget there is also good in the wider community in Aotearoa New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI also offer a word of caution, if the Government is willing to listen. There is a problem that when we become so fixated on fixing a serious problem, such as the problem of violence on our young people, we often then demean every other parent who is struggling to try to discipline, instruct, and counsel young people, who often get themselves into trouble. The fact remains that it is invariably human nature that in the teenage years, sooner or later, young men or young girls will get themselves into trouble. It happens; it is a fact of life. I am sure my colleagues on the other side of the House would agree. I have got myself into trouble, but probably not into the kind of trouble that members opposite may have got themselves into. The point I am making is that young people push the boundaries, young people challenge, young people want to learn, and from time to time one or two of them will get themselves into trouble. Parents who are struggling at that end need to be supported, not to have the finger pointed at them and to be told: \u201CYou do this and you\u2019ll go to jail.\u201D, \u201CYou do this and you\u2019ll get yourself fined in court.\u201D, and \u201CYou do that and the courts will come down hard on you.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI am saying that this legislation is not the sole answer. We have to ensure that every young person and every young parent gets the education they need. We have some really important programmes out in Manukau where young women, or young men, who find themselves to be young parents are able to receive the support they need not only to cope with parenthood at such a young age but also to continue with the educational opportunities that are available to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EWhen we visited the Salvation Army last week it was very heartening, and very sad on another level because the staff had an air of concern about the work they are engaged with. Their concern is that they are now having to deal more and more with a whole range of social problems that have emanated because of high unemployment and the high cost of living. They suggested that when families are faced with those kinds of struggles, we will often see problems occurring in the home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI was saddened to hear from a colleague of mine who works for Child, Youth and Family. My colleague said that every time the Warriors team loses on the field, there are problems in some homes. I was aghast to hear that when the Warriors lose, Child, Youth and Family and the police have to try to deal with the strain in some homes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022622f29ce7eb94e2da786985efee76897\u0022\u003EHon Steve Chadwick\u003C/span\u003E: Ignored the impact of alcohol, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce3bd5428b11400697540c083c499079\u0022\u003ESU\u2019A WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly. We also know that in some families people under the influence of alcohol will do the wrong thing: they will bash the people they love. Although the rest of the nation is crying out to our Government to please forge forward with alcohol reform, we do not know whether that bill will ever get passed by this Government this side of the election period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EAgain, I come back to the fact that although Labour will support this bill, and although we think, yes, it is a step in the right direction\u2014and Labour will always support any initiative aimed at protecting our children from domestic violence and abuse, whether sexual or physical\u2014I do not want this Government to think that simply passing a piece of legislation will solve the problems. We need to ensure that we look upon families and children as an investment for the future. We need to ensure that young people are given every opportunity for their learning. We need to ensure that families are able to sustain themselves through this period of high cost of living, through this period of low income, and through this period of high unemployment. I have to say that if the Government does not take heed of what I am saying, when I am reflecting to it the experiences of our communities, then communities will have every right to point the finger at the Government and to say: \u201CWe\u2019re going backwards. They have no plan. We\u2019re not going forward.\u201D Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022 data-id=\u0022e751daee8eea484887dcd17fbbb62304\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e751daee8eea484887dcd17fbbb62304\u0022\u003ECHESTER BORROWS (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to reassure the member who has just resumed his seat, Su\u2019a William Sio, that the Government does not take anything for granted whatsoever. The Government recognises that although it can legislate for many things, it cannot change the course of behaviour until people see that need. Unfortunately there are families in this country who seem to spend their lives teaching their young sons that the way to treat their partners is to beat the hell of out of them, and teaching their daughters that their role in life is to accept a beating every now and then. It is not right. This Government\u2014in fact, this Parliament, because, as I understand it, Parliament is supporting this legislation\u2014is sending a message very clearly to the community that that is not the way that we see the various roles within our society. It is no longer the way that we wish to go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThese bills seek to support the rights of young children to live in environments that are violence-free. This legislation seeks to reinforce the rights of young children to be represented before courts in decisions that are made about them and their futures and the ways that they will continue to live. It is good that counsel for the child is able to continue representing young people, whether it is in proceedings pursuant to the Care of Children Amendment Bill or to the Domestic Violence Amendment Bill (No 2). We will do what we can to ensure their safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f1453f8-c44e-4ce6-b699-64d600322276\u0022\u003EThis Government has passed numerous pieces of legislation, frequently with the support of the other side of the House, in order to further protect children. I am proud to be part of a Government that takes that lead, and I look forward to seeing the implementation of this legislation. Even more so, I look forward to seeing a change in this society, where our country no longer has ugly statistics in respect of child abuse and neglect, and we can take a rightful place as a caring community on the planet. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd09f3f3b2f4468c918d0ec7d5ae98a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd09f3f3b2f4468c918d0ec7d5ae98a8\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I am also pleased to take a call in the dying stages of this very important legislation arising out of the Child and Family Protection Bill: the Domestic Violence Amendment Bill (No 2), the Care of Children Amendment Bill, and the Adoption Amendment Bill. The three bills we are discussing in the third reading relate to very important parts of very important matters that worry every member of this House and certainly worry society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe changes being made to the Domestic Violence Act 1995 are timely and important, and will extend a greater level of protection to those who have been caught in family violence generally. We have heard probably for the last 7 or 8 years some quite serious concerns being raised throughout New Zealand about domestic violence. The current Government has continued the work of the previous Government, which set up the Taskforce for Action on Violence within Families, and that is still continuing. The work of Government departments and ministries, and the Families Commission, etc., is important work. The courts have become much more involved in dealing with cases of family violence, and the changes being made here will at least progress addressing the problems in the system. So Labour supports those changes. This side of the House supports any action that will make the lives of our vulnerable, particularly our children and women, safer, and this legislation goes some way to doing that. The concern I have is that we have not gone far enough or fast enough in this country\u2014and I say that generally\u2014to address family violence in a comprehensive way. This problem requires comprehensive, long-term intervention. Some of that can be addressed by legislation, and this legislation does that, but other pieces of the jigsaw still need to be addressed. There is a bill on the Order Paper that also addresses other aspects of violence and the lives of children, which has not come forward yet\u2014the Domestic Violence Reform Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe Domestic Violence Amendment Bill (No 2) has had a long period in this House. The original Child and Family Protection Bill was introduced quite early in 2009, and I would have thought that this was an urgent matter that we ought to be discussing and passing much more urgently. That has not happened either. So there are two points I want to make about the legislation. We are supporting it because it makes important changes that are required in addressing domestic violence, but it is not comprehensive enough. It cannot be seen as part of the comprehensive programme. Neither can it be done fast enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe changes being made to the Care of Children Act are also important. The changes allow the courts to address situations that arise under the Care of Children Act. More power is given to make decisions and change decisions, because there are risks when a child is involved. The changes to the Care of Children Act do that as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThe third Act being amended is the Adoption Act. Here again is a very, very small change to the Adoption Act. It is amazing: the Act we work with in New Zealand at the moment is the Adoption Act 1955. That says something: it is time to have a look at that Act far more comprehensively, rather than what we are doing here, looking at one or two pieces of it. It is a very old Act. It is an Act that is used quite regularly in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a41df506a2ab491d8ca178027280ff15\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s 57 years old.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022478fb46a8e594fe4b82f9ad369be5e42\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am glad the member can count. I am really, really pleased. The member can count. That is a very important contribution, I say to Mr Bridges, that he is making to this particular legislation. I worked with the Adoption Act when I was a child welfare officer in 1971. Even then we could see what the Act was\u2014and here we are in 2011! I did not think for a moment when I was working with this Act in the field that I would be talking about this thing so long\u2014almost 40 years\u2014after I first used it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003ESo here we are, a very important area, a change we support, but really there is a problem. The Government did have an opportunity to modernise the Act, because the nature\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0cf9f1d03634817a41e0938972d3ee8\u0022\u003ESimon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Rome wasn\u2019t built in a day!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e484613dbf8846f481ea6996e1c29a0a\u0022\u003EDr RAJEN PRASAD\u003C/span\u003E: As a lawyer, Mr Bridges would know that the nature of the adoption has changed so much that this Act is really now a dinosaur. It is time to change the Adoption Act. There are open adoptions, adoptions by same-sex parents, overseas adoptions\u2014even the attitude towards adoptions has changed dramatically over the last 40 years. Here was another opportunity to look at something comprehensively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225db0a23e-1579-44c6-9194-76e34cf5ae99\u0022\u003EThis side of the House is very happy to support the provisions in these three Acts because they improve\u2014they do not do any damage\u2014and they address some problems. But I think there is a problem in that they do not address more fundamental questions in the area of adoptions, care of children, and family violence that we could have taken this opportunity to address. It is not as if we did not have material, because the bill that is languishing on the Order Paper does take further a number of these matters as well. With those words, we are happy to support this legislation, but I alert Mr Bridges to the point that it is time to change the 1955 Adoption Act. He might use his considerable powers in his caucus to take this issue further, because there are people who really want adoption to be modernised and the Act to be modernised. I look forward to debating that at a later stage. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u002221b63bcaf0cd42d6bea5c44000bbd28c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221b63bcaf0cd42d6bea5c44000bbd28c\u0022\u003ESIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E It is funny, but I actually agree with the member Rajen Prasad, and I will talk about that. In the first and second readings of the Child and Family Protection Bill I took the opportunity to speak on the domestic violence and care of children issues in the bill, and it is very worthy legislation that tidies up a lot of things and makes advances in relation to domestic violence and the care of children in this country. But Rajen Prasad focused on the issue of adoption. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI have talked previously in this House about the issues of child trafficking, a massive issue involving many millions of children in this world of ours. We think of it being an issue in the Third World\u2014and that is true\u2014but, worryingly, if we read about this, we see that it is also an issue in wealthier nations. So we are not being complacent about that, and we address that issue and meet our international obligations through this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI agree with Rajen Prasad that a future Government\u2014this one has been exceptionally busy in the justice field\u2014will need to overhaul and modernise the adoption legislation. I think basic demographics give us a picture of what has happened in this area. If we go back to the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s\u2014the 1950s and 1960s, certainly\u2014there was a baby boom. There were thousands of adoptions a year in this country, and then for a variety of no doubt complex reasons\u2014contraception of course, and also a word we do not talk about much in this House, abortion, and a variety of other factors\u2014today, in 2011, there are something like 100 adoptions a year in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI think, as Rajen Prasad has said, we need to modernise the law. We need to have a good look at that because I think there will be many more prospective parents than just 100 in this country who want to adopt. Just as in this bill we are looking at our international obligations and we are placing a bulwark, a protective measure, against illegitimate adoptions and exploitative adoptions, so too we may need to look at freeing up adoptions and doing more, so that good prospective parents can adopt in this country, and potentially can adopt from overseas. I would not claim to know a lot about the laws in that area, but these are some of the controversial, complex issues that a future Parliament will have to address. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe issue of adoption often gets reduced to simply an issue of gay adoption. I accept that is one issue that will probably need to be broached and looked at with some seriousness, but what I am trying to say in this contribution is that the issues are much more than that and modernisation of all of the legislation will be required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWith those few thoughts, it is good to see this legislation will pass today. It is worthy legislation that really does advance things in a number of respects in relation to domestic violence, the care of children, and the adoption laws in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u002294da2f97d48d4bfa8595ffa46de689a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294da2f97d48d4bfa8595ffa46de689a9\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker Roy. It is my pleasure to speak on the child and family protection legislation in its third reading. I note that the Child and Family Protection Bill was divided into three bills at the end of the Committee of the whole House stage: the Domestic Violence Amendment Bill (No 2), the Care of Children Amendment Bill, and the Adoption Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI have not had the pleasure of speaking on this legislation before today, and I will talk particularly about domestic violence and the impact of domestic violence on our communities. I was in a position, in my previous employment as principal adviser in the Office of the Children\u2019s Commissioner, to sit on the Waitakere Taskforce on Family Violence. It was a pleasure to sit on that task force with people such as Penny Hulse, who is now the Deputy Mayor of Auckland City. The meetings were facilitated by the New Zealand Police. They involved non-governmental organisations, and people who were involved in the care of not only the children but also the families involved in family violence. We met on a regular basis, and one thing that struck me in the process was that, unfortunately, the focus on children did seem to be missing when we looked at family violence engagement in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe police are very good at ensuring that protection at the immediate point is dealt with. I have had the pleasure already of going out with the police. On the day I went out there were three incidents, and one was an incident between a husband and wife, with a 5-year-old and a 2-year-old in the house at the time. The thing that has struck me is the impact of family violence on our families, but particularly on our children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EWe have a process called the Family Violence Interagency Response System, or FVIARS, whereby the police, Women\u2019s Refuge, Child, Youth and Family, and non-governmental organisations come together. They come together to work towards solutions that will ensure that our families are safe, and that our families have the support they need. But often in the meetings I think that the particular needs and specific needs of the children are not adequately addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThere are issues about what other agencies can be involved. I think that it is important, particularly for children of school age, that in the schools they belong to, the principals, teachers, and people who are working with those children are informed when the children have come from a family violence incident. I know from visiting a Randwick Park school on Monday and talking to the principal that she was very clear that children do behave differently if they have been involved in a family violence incident. The people working with those children know that something is wrong, but they might not know what is wrong. I think that a much more strategic approach is needed to ensure that the people who will be looking after our children\u2014and I consider that, in the context of schools, teachers are looking after our children\u2014are aware of when children come from families that have family violence issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EFrom my experience of the Family Violence Interagency Response System process I think it seems to be really focused on helping either the victim or the offender; children are not so much considered in that process. To me there does not seem to be a focus on the family and on how we can make families functional. We have contracts where one group will look after the offender and another group will look after the victim, but I think there is very little engagement in ensuring that families are supported. The Domestic Violence Amendment Bill (No 2) is incredibly important because it places the focus on the children, but on a different aspect of that focus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI came into the House and was asked to speak on the bill, because Labour is supporting this bill. The history of the bill is interesting. The history is that the bill stemmed from a Ministry of Justice review of the Domestic Violence Act 1995 and other related legislation. The House will know that Annette King introduced the Domestic Violence Reform Bill, which took into consideration the submissions from 103 submitters, who represented private individuals, academics, the legal profession, and non-governmental agencies. They represented domestic violence specialists, social assistance, and public interest groups. So we have had this, I guess, compilation legislation put together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EAs I said before, it is good to see that we will focus on the needs of our children and on the needs of families, but I still think we should be reviewing the Family Violence Interagency Response System process, with a specific emphasis on the needs of children. Some of the questions that I think need to be asked are whether the children have a general practitioner, whether the children are enrolled with Well Child providers, and whether the children are attending early childhood education centres. Because a number of the children come from families where, unfortunately, family violence is a normal set of behaviours, a whole lot of social issues contribute to the circumstances. Those social circumstances relate to the fact that parents may not be working, and that they may be living in conditions where their housing is not as adequate as it could be. They may be living in conditions where poverty pays a large role, where families end up being stressed, and where someone in the family partakes of alcohol and then becomes violent. So some of the peripheral and environmental issues related to ensuring that our children and families are protected, I think, also have to take into consideration, for example, the density of liquor outlets and whether there is a correlation between family violence and some of our communities where there is a density of liquor outlets. That situation normalises alcohol, not only for families but for the children who come from a community where a liquor outlet is attached to their particular dairy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI do think there needs to be more of an emphasis on children if we are to look at child and family protection within the context of family violence. I do think we should be looking at ensuring that the children who come from those sorts of situations have the best start in life, and have the best opportunities, particularly in their early years, to start on a pathway that will ensure that they can enjoy our public and free education system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EOne of the issues we have is that in the Family Violence Interagency Response System meetings, the only time when children are discussed is if Child, Youth and Family needs to intervene. These are our most vulnerable children, so I find it really interesting when the Government has a green paper and National members talk about how vulnerable children are. We know who they are: they are the cohort of children that this bill is trying to protect. But it is broader than that, because not only is it the children who need the courts to intervene to keep them safe but it is the children who get caught up in family violence in the first place. They are in a position not of their own control. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EYou know, I think it is very interesting, when looking at the intent of this legislation and at children who live in situations where family violence has a major impact on their lives, to consider whether those children are getting all the public-good services they need. We have the T\u0101mariki Ora Well Child Schedule in New Zealand, which guarantees every New Zealand child, from when they are born to the age of 5, eight visits on the schedule. The ultimate visit is called a B4 School check, and I think it is really interesting to look at these children and ask questions about whether they have a general practitioner, whether they are enrolled with Well Child, whether they have had their B4 School check, and whether they have had the early childhood education subsidy, if they are entitled to it. At the layer below Child, Youth and Family intervention we have a Strengthening Families model, which is supposed to ensure that children\u2014and a lot of children who live within the context of family violence\u2014have the best start in life, and have access to public-good resources that will ensure that they can grow up and fulfil their potential. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EIt has been a pleasure to speak at this late stage. Thank you very much for the opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1b929feea104628b5ee6c07cdd40093\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1b929feea104628b5ee6c07cdd40093\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to speak on this important legislation, the Adoption Amendment Bill. The aim of this bill is to amend the Domestic Violence Act, the Care of Children Act, and the Adoption Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThis bill is intended to deal with the serious issue of domestic violence, thereby protecting children and families from violence and abuse. This bill is to address the risk of children being wrongfully removed from New Zealand. The Government believes it is essential that the issue of domestic violence be confronted with some urgency. Offenders should be made accountable for their behaviour. In particular, it is important to protect our children, the future of this country. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a85ececf8c12455192585cc511327bc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a85ececf8c12455192585cc511327bc6\u0022\u003EHon STEVE CHADWICK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a pleasure to speak to this legislation, and it is nice to see consensus in the House. I somehow always have an affinity towards those members who have a focus on domestic violence and on the future and the potential of our children in New Zealand. I congratulate the Government on the introduction of this legislation. I wish that there could be a bipartisan approach to the care of our children and to domestic violence, because I believe that all parties in the House have measures that they are desperate to see introduced that, collectively, would make a difference. It is sad that having consensus between political parties on the way forward is an opportunity that was not taken up by John Key when it was offered by former Minister Annette King. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI congratulate the Government on what it has done about domestic violence so far in New Zealand, but I have to say that a piecemeal approach to solving problems of child and family abuse is not working. I have a background in setting up the first Women\u2019s Refuge in Rotorua as a midwife, seeing the number of young women coming into maternity who had been physically abused. One never knew about the emotional abuse; one could only see that from their withdrawal, and their inability to give birth confidently. I know that the Minister opposite is trying to do something about these problems of abuse. We believe that there is urgency to this, and that is why I personally like the approach that Annette King has shown leadership on, saying that we know what needs to be done, we now just need to get on and do it. This legislation is part of the answer, but only part of the jigsaw of domestic violence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI wanted to mention and get on the record the lost opportunity to include some things that, sadly, are not in the legislation proposed today, which has been broken up into three bills. There was the need to define the age of a child for the purposes of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, and for those who are covered by parenting orders. Currently, a child is defined as anyone under 17. Under Annette King\u2019s bill, we would change that age to 18. I would have liked to see that amended. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EWe also said that when a judge declines a without notice application for a protection order through the courts process, the judge should given written reasons for why they are declining. Then the applicant will know what they have done wrong in the process and they will be able to decide whether to proceed or withdraw from proceeding on notice. This bill does not include that provision, and I think taking the opportunity to include it would have meant a more comprehensive approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThe other issue that was raised when we drafted our Domestic Violence Reform Bill came from the National Council of Women, who are predominantly very sensible, pragmatic women involved in family violence prevention support services, or who are actual practitioners in the law themselves. A lot of women choose to go to a woman lawyer if they are undergoing domestic violence. They said that one of the most important aspects was for an applicant to attend information sessions so that they understood what a protection order was about, so that they would comply, and also so that they would then know where to go for any further social assistance. The requirement to attend information sessions is not in the legislation before us. That is opportunity lost three times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EAlso\u2014and I think this is the biggest\u2014in our approach we felt that the court should have the power to direct attendance at an addiction treatment service. That is not in the bill. I think one of the underlying factors that we all now accept, in timeliness, that has changed so much from 1995 is that alcohol and addiction are becoming one of the precursors and the drivers of domestic violence. The courts having the power to direct one to attend an addiction assessment and treatment programme was another opportunity we put into the provisions of our bill. I think it is an opportunity lost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EI hope that at some stage, when there is a comprehensive review of the legislation rather than a piecemeal approach, one after the other, we will see the omission\u2014not commission, but omission\u2014of those small but significant steps that make a huge change to how we look at the role of police and enforcement in protection orders, the role of the courts in domestic violence matters, and how the Family Court could have widened powers. It is not done by just one bill. Sadly, in these three bills that amend these Acts, all the aspects I spoke of today are omitted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221fb8d8db-3e96-49c7-ab1c-b7916a50e30e\u0022\u003EThat is a pity, when all of us in New Zealand know that the facts are clearly on the table. Even the Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Advisor has said that we have the evidence, and now we must get on and do something about it. Four to 10 percent of New Zealanders experience physical abuse, and we do not know the percentage of those experiencing emotional abuse. So we support this bill and hope we are not back in the House within the next year with another little bright idea and another amendment bill. In the future, when Labour gets back into Government, we will bring forward our bill, which languishes way down the Order Paper. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022 data-id=\u002266bbd40516aa41d08f2f7586965e9a1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266bbd40516aa41d08f2f7586965e9a1d\u0022\u003ESUE KEDGLEY (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I will speak briefly to say that the Green Party is very, very happy to support this legislation and to join in what seems to be a consensus in this House. We support the comments made by previous speakers. But I say in particular that although this legislation will do much to provide support for families, and to streamline some of the procedures to assist families, we must do more to address the underlying causes of violence and family violence in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker, Steve Chadwick, mentioned addiction and alcohol. We heard compelling evidence in the Justice and Electoral Committee that alcohol is one of the major fuels of violence in New Zealand. We hope this House will adopt a very, very comprehensive and far-reaching approach to try to reduce the harm of violence, and to extend addiction treatment and alcohol treatment around New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EThe other issue that nobody has mentioned\u2014and I think it does deserve a mention\u2014is the amount of violence on television, in films, and in computer games. We know that the violence on television, in computer games, and in films is contributing to a culture of violence in New Zealand. Extensive research has found that children who are exposed to a lot of violence on television end up thinking that violence is a legitimate way of solving problems. They think that violence is more normal, and they become more aggressive and more violent themselves when they grow up. This is particularly the case with boys. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EI managed to get some funding to look at the amount of violence on New Zealand television, and one of the most concerning findings of that study was that the cartoons children watch tend to have the most episodes of violence in New Zealand television. In fact, some of the cartoons, particularly on the Nickelodeon channel, were little more than animated thuggery. If we are to be serious about addressing violence and the causes of violence, one of the things we need to look at is trying to reduce the amount of violence on television, particularly in cartoons and the programmes that children watch. We need to look at the amount of violence in computer games and on television. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EAbove all, the other thing we need to look at is poverty. We know that impoverished families tend to be more violent, and we know we must do more to reduce the underlying poverty and inequality in our society. We know that the more unequal a society is, the more likely it will have more violence and more social breakdown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EThe Green Party has proposed a series of policies that would do a lot to address poverty in New Zealand, and that would deliver $60 a week to some of our most impoverished families. As we observe the terrible happenings on the other side of the world, in what we thought was one of the safest places in the world\u2014namely, London and England\u2014as we observe the violence that is erupting there, many are saying yes, it is alienated youth, it is poverty, and it is inequality that are some of the underlying causes of that astonishing outbreak of violence. We would do well to address the underlying causes of poverty in New Zealand, and issues such as alcohol abuse and the amount of violence on television, otherwise these bills, although they will be steps along the way, will not really do much to reduce the underlying causes of violence in New Zealand. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaaad191-62cf-43e8-a772-63a71dbf4d4a\u0022\u003EBills read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ddc2307a6bbb4d8eaa5e0c20b06dd0a3\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eb8eb9936a704280b0672060ad475e91\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022 data-id=\u002290d27d29cd3f4657a9407aa71fb97649\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002260200136-9d63-4a82-b4f5-c00411adb1fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290d27d29cd3f4657a9407aa71fb97649\u0022\u003EJO GOODHEW (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the House to rise, given that such extraordinary progress has been made this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abaabd30f3db4beb816c5644be9f661b\u0022\u003EThe ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there anyone opposed to that course of action? There appears not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201108111a0b300f6df44f91a80a0fca560d9660000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4112fc5-c53f-4aa9-bf6d-5a05ce6252cf\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.38 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"